Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi, I realize that. But does that mean the titles "have" to be copyrighted? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Dakotah Rickard Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 6:17 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed I will admit that I really don't like copywright law. It's really odd and so convoluted that most lawyers don't get it. still, I think it makes sense, in the sense that there's a specific and definite impetus for the games that can be pointed to, without paying royalties. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 4/26/11, Alex Kenny wrote: > Hi, > Whether or not the games are abandoned is not related to their > copyright status. When code is abandoned, it does not at all mean that > it is no longer copyrighted. For example, Windows 98, though now > abandoned, is still copyrighted by Microsoft, and they have the right > to decide how the code may be distributed. > > On 4/26/11, Hayden Presley wrote: >> Hi Damien, >> I'm just curious. These games are abandoned, like several others. Yet >> there >> is no "copyright" on those. So why do we have to have a copyright on >> these? >> >> Best Regards, >> Hayden >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On >> Behalf Of Damien Pendleton >> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 4:30 AM >> To: Gamers Discussion list >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed >> >> Hi Alex, >> Precisely. I feel that these games are way below my current standard now, >> especially as regards bugs. So it's simple. I either recreate Danger City >> on >> >> popular demand and completely revamp it and commercialise it under a new >> name, but keep some of the concepts the same, or I transfer the rights to >> somebody else. >> Regards, >> Damien. >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Alex Kenny" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:50 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed >> >> >>> I'm not a developer, but I think there is a reason why a developer >>> would choose not to allow older programs to be redistributed. >>> >>> As Damien has previously mentioned, these older titles were written in >>> a deprecated language by amateur developers. The code is difficult to >>> read, update, compile and run. I believe there is probably a >>> reputation issue. Developers don't want buggy and useless code >>> floating around the net that they wrote. True, Damien didn't write >>> these games, but by purchasing them, the code is now his >>> responsibility. >>> >>> Another reason I've heard for developers refusing to redistribute >>> abandonware is that, even if they don't support it, people will still >>> contact them expecting help. If Damien did allow the games to be >>> distributed, I have no doubt that someone would download a copy >>> somewhere, encounter a problem, and send Damien an email saying, "Game >>> X won't run! Help!" Even if he emphasizes in the game documentation >>> that the games are abandonware, we've all seen first-hand that many >>> people in the blind community do not bother reading documentation or >>> other information that's right in front of them. >>> >>> >>> On 4/16/11, The Addictor wrote: >>>> Hey Tom, >>>> While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that >>>> no >>>> one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games >>>> like >>>> Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that >>>> nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, >>>> that >>>> he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. >>>> Ken Downey >>>> The Addictor >>>> www.TheAddictor.com >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >>>
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
I doubt it makes sense to anyone, common or lawyer-ish. It's barely recognizable as written word. I think, perhaps, the only folk who could make heads or tails of it in a complete manner are likely buzzed on something or other, and they probably had a lot of experience with puzzle-driven Interactive Fiction. t's things like that that make me wish for a world community. Anyway, I'm not trying to do much more than make a funny out of something that isn't. Chers everyone: Dakotah Rickard On 4/28/11, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi, > > Well, that's certainly true. Especially, if you want to delve into the > matter of international copyright laws which is extremely messy and > convoluted. > > For instance, lets take the matter of the GPL, GNU General Public > License Agreement, which tries to keep certain software open and > available to the public free of charge. When it was initially drafted > by the software freedom foundation and others they wrote it up around > U.S. copyright law. Unfortunately, there are many countries around the > world like in the E.U. that doesn't recognize the GPL as valid. In > other words if Microsoft comes along with a commercial license the > E.U. countries will recognize it, but Linux comes along with a free > GPL license they won't recognize it as valid. It doesn't make a lot of > sense why any country would reject he idea of a completely free and > open source license that requires the software to remain free and > available to the public. I remember there was some sort of > international court battle over this sometime back between the open > source community like Gnome and the E.U. So copyright law is often > very convoluted, and doesn't make sense to the common man or woman. > > Cheers! > > > On 4/27/11, Dakotah Rickard wrote: >> I will admit that I really don't like copywright law. It's really odd >> and so convoluted that most lawyers don't get it. >> still, I think it makes sense, in the sense that there's a specific >> and definite impetus for the games that can be pointed to, without >> paying royalties. >> >> Signed: >> Dakotah Rickard > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi, Well, that's certainly true. Especially, if you want to delve into the matter of international copyright laws which is extremely messy and convoluted. For instance, lets take the matter of the GPL, GNU General Public License Agreement, which tries to keep certain software open and available to the public free of charge. When it was initially drafted by the software freedom foundation and others they wrote it up around U.S. copyright law. Unfortunately, there are many countries around the world like in the E.U. that doesn't recognize the GPL as valid. In other words if Microsoft comes along with a commercial license the E.U. countries will recognize it, but Linux comes along with a free GPL license they won't recognize it as valid. It doesn't make a lot of sense why any country would reject he idea of a completely free and open source license that requires the software to remain free and available to the public. I remember there was some sort of international court battle over this sometime back between the open source community like Gnome and the E.U. So copyright law is often very convoluted, and doesn't make sense to the common man or woman. Cheers! On 4/27/11, Dakotah Rickard wrote: > I will admit that I really don't like copywright law. It's really odd > and so convoluted that most lawyers don't get it. > still, I think it makes sense, in the sense that there's a specific > and definite impetus for the games that can be pointed to, without > paying royalties. > > Signed: > Dakotah Rickard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
I will admit that I really don't like copywright law. It's really odd and so convoluted that most lawyers don't get it. still, I think it makes sense, in the sense that there's a specific and definite impetus for the games that can be pointed to, without paying royalties. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 4/26/11, Alex Kenny wrote: > Hi, > Whether or not the games are abandoned is not related to their > copyright status. When code is abandoned, it does not at all mean that > it is no longer copyrighted. For example, Windows 98, though now > abandoned, is still copyrighted by Microsoft, and they have the right > to decide how the code may be distributed. > > On 4/26/11, Hayden Presley wrote: >> Hi Damien, >> I'm just curious. These games are abandoned, like several others. Yet >> there >> is no "copyright" on those. So why do we have to have a copyright on >> these? >> >> Best Regards, >> Hayden >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On >> Behalf Of Damien Pendleton >> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 4:30 AM >> To: Gamers Discussion list >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed >> >> Hi Alex, >> Precisely. I feel that these games are way below my current standard now, >> especially as regards bugs. So it's simple. I either recreate Danger City >> on >> >> popular demand and completely revamp it and commercialise it under a new >> name, but keep some of the concepts the same, or I transfer the rights to >> somebody else. >> Regards, >> Damien. >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Alex Kenny" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:50 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed >> >> >>> I'm not a developer, but I think there is a reason why a developer >>> would choose not to allow older programs to be redistributed. >>> >>> As Damien has previously mentioned, these older titles were written in >>> a deprecated language by amateur developers. The code is difficult to >>> read, update, compile and run. I believe there is probably a >>> reputation issue. Developers don't want buggy and useless code >>> floating around the net that they wrote. True, Damien didn't write >>> these games, but by purchasing them, the code is now his >>> responsibility. >>> >>> Another reason I've heard for developers refusing to redistribute >>> abandonware is that, even if they don't support it, people will still >>> contact them expecting help. If Damien did allow the games to be >>> distributed, I have no doubt that someone would download a copy >>> somewhere, encounter a problem, and send Damien an email saying, "Game >>> X won't run! Help!" Even if he emphasizes in the game documentation >>> that the games are abandonware, we've all seen first-hand that many >>> people in the blind community do not bother reading documentation or >>> other information that's right in front of them. >>> >>> >>> On 4/16/11, The Addictor wrote: >>>> Hey Tom, >>>> While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that >>>> no >>>> one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games >>>> like >>>> Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that >>>> nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, >>>> that >>>> he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. >>>> Ken Downey >>>> The Addictor >>>> www.TheAddictor.com >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi, Whether or not the games are abandoned is not related to their copyright status. When code is abandoned, it does not at all mean that it is no longer copyrighted. For example, Windows 98, though now abandoned, is still copyrighted by Microsoft, and they have the right to decide how the code may be distributed. On 4/26/11, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Damien, > I'm just curious. These games are abandoned, like several others. Yet there > is no "copyright" on those. So why do we have to have a copyright on these? > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Damien Pendleton > Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 4:30 AM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed > > Hi Alex, > Precisely. I feel that these games are way below my current standard now, > especially as regards bugs. So it's simple. I either recreate Danger City on > > popular demand and completely revamp it and commercialise it under a new > name, but keep some of the concepts the same, or I transfer the rights to > somebody else. > Regards, > Damien. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Alex Kenny" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:50 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed > > >> I'm not a developer, but I think there is a reason why a developer >> would choose not to allow older programs to be redistributed. >> >> As Damien has previously mentioned, these older titles were written in >> a deprecated language by amateur developers. The code is difficult to >> read, update, compile and run. I believe there is probably a >> reputation issue. Developers don't want buggy and useless code >> floating around the net that they wrote. True, Damien didn't write >> these games, but by purchasing them, the code is now his >> responsibility. >> >> Another reason I've heard for developers refusing to redistribute >> abandonware is that, even if they don't support it, people will still >> contact them expecting help. If Damien did allow the games to be >> distributed, I have no doubt that someone would download a copy >> somewhere, encounter a problem, and send Damien an email saying, "Game >> X won't run! Help!" Even if he emphasizes in the game documentation >> that the games are abandonware, we've all seen first-hand that many >> people in the blind community do not bother reading documentation or >> other information that's right in front of them. >> >> >> On 4/16/11, The Addictor wrote: >>> Hey Tom, >>> While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that >>> no >>> one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games >>> like >>> Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that >>> nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, >>> that >>> he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. >>> Ken Downey >>> The Addictor >>> www.TheAddictor.com >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamer
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Damien, I'm just curious. These games are abandoned, like several others. Yet there is no "copyright" on those. So why do we have to have a copyright on these? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Damien Pendleton Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 4:30 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Hi Alex, Precisely. I feel that these games are way below my current standard now, especially as regards bugs. So it's simple. I either recreate Danger City on popular demand and completely revamp it and commercialise it under a new name, but keep some of the concepts the same, or I transfer the rights to somebody else. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Alex Kenny" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed > I'm not a developer, but I think there is a reason why a developer > would choose not to allow older programs to be redistributed. > > As Damien has previously mentioned, these older titles were written in > a deprecated language by amateur developers. The code is difficult to > read, update, compile and run. I believe there is probably a > reputation issue. Developers don't want buggy and useless code > floating around the net that they wrote. True, Damien didn't write > these games, but by purchasing them, the code is now his > responsibility. > > Another reason I've heard for developers refusing to redistribute > abandonware is that, even if they don't support it, people will still > contact them expecting help. If Damien did allow the games to be > distributed, I have no doubt that someone would download a copy > somewhere, encounter a problem, and send Damien an email saying, "Game > X won't run! Help!" Even if he emphasizes in the game documentation > that the games are abandonware, we've all seen first-hand that many > people in the blind community do not bother reading documentation or > other information that's right in front of them. > > > On 4/16/11, The Addictor wrote: >> Hey Tom, >> While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that >> no >> one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games >> like >> Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that >> nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, >> that >> he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. >> Ken Downey >> The Addictor >> www.TheAddictor.com > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Oh, I think that's a great compromise. MOTA and Danger City are really quite different in many ways, though both are side scrollers and both involve beating the crap out of your enemies. I see the points, by the way, in your arguments. I think that your wish to keep ownership so that you can point to the old titles as basis for new ones is valid, but I have to be honest. If I write a side scrolling fight and shoot game, I'll probably thank you guys, as side scroller developers, for the inspiration to put together a game like that. I view that as honesty, as I'm not ripping off you guys, only creditting you all for brain juice. I say that you could probably do likewise, if you didn't just make a new Danger City but took an idea like Gang Wars and brought it to fruitful completion. If you did change the name, then you could, reasonably, just drop Danger City into the public domain. I also understand the annoyance of not having a developer to contact about issues, but that really is what forums are for, community support, that is. If you're working on a new title, inspired by an old title, then you don't really need to keep ahold of the old one. Just let it lie and caviot emptor, let the buyer beware, about the old one. I look forward to the beat-'em-up you come up with, and even if you don't public domain Danger City, I don't mind or begrudge it at all, it's just food for thought. Signed: Dakotah Rickard PS: I really can't wait to be an honest developer. I want to see the perspective clearly from both sides, and I know I'm not completely there yet. Still, one thing I'm glad I haven't seen much of at all in this argument is the "We're developers and you're not so you just don't get it," thing I've seen sometimes in the past. I don't program yet, but I'm in the midst of making several board games, which I hope to program at some point, and I face the developers' vicious circle of asking for suggestions and being overwhelmed or misdirected, and only the truly mindless have never created anything in their lives, so I'm glad I haven't seen any of that in this debate. You guys rock. On 4/18/11, shaun everiss wrote: > savage gambit I have or had. > I could never get the keys off. > Concept looked good but it was a bit impractical > actuallyIt would be good if it was easier. > Something like woopass or atleast hit space on things to make them go away. > or at least have the controls closer at h hand. > > > At 02:56 p.m. 18/04/2011, you wrote: >>Hi Ken, >>While I can't really agree with you on the whole "all audio games are bop >>it" thing, I definitely see your point with the Saveage Gambit; you >>definitely have no room in which to do anything different than the expected >>imput. >> >>Best Regards, >>Hayden >> >> >>-Original Message- >>From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On >>Behalf Of The Addictor >>Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:39 PM >>To: Gamers Discussion list >>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed >> >>I actually beat Redemption, believe it or not. I think Self Destruct is >>better. At least when I played that I didn't feel like I was playing yet >>another Bop it game. I like Bop It, but not for a boxing game. >>Ken Downey >>The Addictor >>www.TheAddictor.com >> >>- Original Message - >>From: "Thomas Ward" >>To: "Gamers Discussion list" >>Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:30 PM >>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed >> >> >> > Hi Damien, >> > >> > Yeah, I actually do see your point. It is for that very reason, >> > interesting enough, why I had never put up all of the PB Games, etc. I >> > personally feel something like Snowball War is simply not worth >> > hosting, but I've been asked time and time again to host it for one >> > reason or another so I put it up. However, I have a disclaimer on my >> > website that USA Games does not support those games in any way, shape, >> > or form. If people ask their questions will go unanswered simply >> > because I don't really see any need to keep some games like Snowball >> > War around. If you want it then use it at your own risk. So far no one >> > has really asked for help on any of the games I host so I don't have >> > an issue with hosting them. However, if I was getting flamed, >> > bombarded with questions, etc like you are with the abandoned games >> > then they'd be taken off my website faster than you can say "pronto >> > Tonto." >> > &g
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
savage gambit I have or had. I could never get the keys off. Concept looked good but it was a bit impractical actuallyIt would be good if it was easier. Something like woopass or atleast hit space on things to make them go away. or at least have the controls closer at h hand. At 02:56 p.m. 18/04/2011, you wrote: Hi Ken, While I can't really agree with you on the whole "all audio games are bop it" thing, I definitely see your point with the Saveage Gambit; you definitely have no room in which to do anything different than the expected imput. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of The Addictor Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:39 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed I actually beat Redemption, believe it or not. I think Self Destruct is better. At least when I played that I didn't feel like I was playing yet another Bop it game. I like Bop It, but not for a boxing game. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed > Hi Damien, > > Yeah, I actually do see your point. It is for that very reason, > interesting enough, why I had never put up all of the PB Games, etc. I > personally feel something like Snowball War is simply not worth > hosting, but I've been asked time and time again to host it for one > reason or another so I put it up. However, I have a disclaimer on my > website that USA Games does not support those games in any way, shape, > or form. If people ask their questions will go unanswered simply > because I don't really see any need to keep some games like Snowball > War around. If you want it then use it at your own risk. So far no one > has really asked for help on any of the games I host so I don't have > an issue with hosting them. However, if I was getting flamed, > bombarded with questions, etc like you are with the abandoned games > then they'd be taken off my website faster than you can say "pronto > Tonto." > > One thing you can be assured of I'm not going to cry over Danger City, > Self-Destruct, etc because the games certainly are not worth it. > Jason, I think it was who ran XL Studios, was not a very skilled > programmer to be frank about it. I remember back when we still had the > ag-dev wiki and mailing list Jason released the source for a couple > of his games as tutorials, and it was terrible. I suppose I'm a bit > bias since I was trained professionally, therefore I try to program > using professional standards, but all the same I didn't think it was > tutorial quality. I felt that for beginners it would teach them some > extremely bad habits, and do to Jason's inexperience I could see > mistakes he would be passing on to the next generation developer. So I > understand exactly why you don't want to simply upgrade the code, and > would have to rewrite it from scratch. > > In fact, the only game on your list of games I might consider updating > would be the Savage Gambit. I think if it was rewritten, given some > better keyboard asignments, etc it could be a decent game. However, it > is pretty difficult to play in its current state. > > Cheers! > > > On 4/16/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: >> Hi Thomas, >> I just don't feel like they are games worth hosting. All I have had since >> I >> have retained the rights to these games are complaints and flames and I >> feel >> like they are more trouble than they are worth. If people wanted the >> games >> that badly, they would have offered me their support rather than their >> scorn. The amount of emails I have had complaining about the bug in level >> 1 >> in Danger City, or the bug in level 10 of Self Destruct, or the bug in >> this >> or the bug in that, and when I explained to them calmly that because >> these >> games had been transferred to me they turned around and basically told me >> to >> forget it, I figured that neither me nor anybody else should be treated >> that >> way and held responsible for these bugs without good cause, whether as a >> host or a developer. I feel that since I am trying to offer good quality >> products now, if someone was to redistribute, or host, these games with >> my >> name attached to them, they would hold me responsible for the bugs, and >> it >> would put them off my next titles, if that makes sense. >> Hope that helps. >> Regards, >> Damien. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Damien, Personally, I think that is a good compromise. You don't have to keep or update Danger City to get the same level of action or to create a game with equal or better game play elements. Look at MOTA as an example. Truth be told I'd love to write an authentic Tomb Raider game complete wwith original music, sounds, and of course Lara Croft. Copyrights being a factor, of course, I can't legally do that. However, that doesn't stop me from writing my own game that uses and borrows some gameplay elements and ideas. As a result we have a nearly equal game in terms of fun, replay value, and entertainment without the legal rangling it would take to get the real thing written in accessible format. Same concept applies to Danger City. There are game play elements that are good, might be decent, but it isn't something that necessarily has to apply to that specific game. You might create a new game called "Gang Wars" where you have to do similar things, avoid similar traps, and includes elements of Danger City without returning to that title directly. So it is a fair compromise really. On 4/17/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Ken, > In that case, I will work on a new title with some of Danger City's concepts > in. I think that is a fair compromise is it not? > Regards, > Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Ken, While I can't really agree with you on the whole "all audio games are bop it" thing, I definitely see your point with the Saveage Gambit; you definitely have no room in which to do anything different than the expected imput. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of The Addictor Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:39 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed I actually beat Redemption, believe it or not. I think Self Destruct is better. At least when I played that I didn't feel like I was playing yet another Bop it game. I like Bop It, but not for a boxing game. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed > Hi Damien, > > Yeah, I actually do see your point. It is for that very reason, > interesting enough, why I had never put up all of the PB Games, etc. I > personally feel something like Snowball War is simply not worth > hosting, but I've been asked time and time again to host it for one > reason or another so I put it up. However, I have a disclaimer on my > website that USA Games does not support those games in any way, shape, > or form. If people ask their questions will go unanswered simply > because I don't really see any need to keep some games like Snowball > War around. If you want it then use it at your own risk. So far no one > has really asked for help on any of the games I host so I don't have > an issue with hosting them. However, if I was getting flamed, > bombarded with questions, etc like you are with the abandoned games > then they'd be taken off my website faster than you can say "pronto > Tonto." > > One thing you can be assured of I'm not going to cry over Danger City, > Self-Destruct, etc because the games certainly are not worth it. > Jason, I think it was who ran XL Studios, was not a very skilled > programmer to be frank about it. I remember back when we still had the > ag-dev wiki and mailing list Jason released the source for a couple > of his games as tutorials, and it was terrible. I suppose I'm a bit > bias since I was trained professionally, therefore I try to program > using professional standards, but all the same I didn't think it was > tutorial quality. I felt that for beginners it would teach them some > extremely bad habits, and do to Jason's inexperience I could see > mistakes he would be passing on to the next generation developer. So I > understand exactly why you don't want to simply upgrade the code, and > would have to rewrite it from scratch. > > In fact, the only game on your list of games I might consider updating > would be the Savage Gambit. I think if it was rewritten, given some > better keyboard asignments, etc it could be a decent game. However, it > is pretty difficult to play in its current state. > > Cheers! > > > On 4/16/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: >> Hi Thomas, >> I just don't feel like they are games worth hosting. All I have had since >> I >> have retained the rights to these games are complaints and flames and I >> feel >> like they are more trouble than they are worth. If people wanted the >> games >> that badly, they would have offered me their support rather than their >> scorn. The amount of emails I have had complaining about the bug in level >> 1 >> in Danger City, or the bug in level 10 of Self Destruct, or the bug in >> this >> or the bug in that, and when I explained to them calmly that because >> these >> games had been transferred to me they turned around and basically told me >> to >> forget it, I figured that neither me nor anybody else should be treated >> that >> way and held responsible for these bugs without good cause, whether as a >> host or a developer. I feel that since I am trying to offer good quality >> products now, if someone was to redistribute, or host, these games with >> my >> name attached to them, they would hold me responsible for the bugs, and >> it >> would put them off my next titles, if that makes sense. >> Hope that helps. >> Regards, >> Damien. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/ga
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi, I'm not really sure what the reason for remembering where those bombs are would be. Just jump them when you come to them. Truth be told I'd see mmore replay from something like a Troopanum Clone than Danger City. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of The Addictor Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:56 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Oh, I dunno about that. There' just something about going up to that jerk and throwing him, then running up to him before he hits the ground and throwing him again. Also, while it's true you can't play often, once a year or so is enough to forget where those bombs are. On the whole though, if Battle Zone had some bombs and you could throw people, I probably wouldn't touch Danger City. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:18 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed > dangercity is bad because it was not finnished and has no replay value. > the mines are a bit of a pain to etc but otherwise its ok. > At 09:25 p.m. 17/04/2011, you wrote: >>Hi Dakotah, >>OK, let's take your arguments one by one and put them into perspective. >>1. Once a developer claims a game, that game is the responsibility of the >>developer. >>That is very true, and is precisely the reason I do not want it >>redistributed. Since I still retain copyright on the games, in that regard >>they still have my name attached to them. >>2. If, a while later, the developer no longer wants the game up, then make >>a redistributable release with no contact information and give it to folks >>who just want to play the game. >>That is one thing I do not believe in, is releasing a game without contact >>information. That really annoys me when I download a game, and therefore I >>am not willing to stoop to that level myself. I expect to be able to >>contact the developer in the event of a problem. >>3. Personally, I love danger city as it gives me a chance, every so often, >>to kick the crap out of people in a slightly unique way. >>Well Dakotah, you are the very first person to tell me they like Danger >>City, and if that is the case then I may, on popular demand, write a new >>title that employs those fighting techniques. However, as the owner of >>Danger City, I am not satisfied with its outcome. >>4. I feel about that game very much as I feel about MOTA, although frankly >>I understand how way better MOTA is. >>You've hit the nail on the head there. MOTA is a much better game, and I >>hope to better myself based on what I have seen in MOTA. Based on that if >>I do write this new fighting game, you can rest assured that it will be >>ten times better than Danger City was (or at least I hope so). >>5. The point is this: someone put time and effort into writing a program >>for people to play. For one person, who currently owns it, to say that >>they just don't care anymore, so why should anyone else is a serious blow >>to a reputation that is crucial for a developer to have. >>I never said anybody else shouldn't care. I never said, "All players of >>Danger City and Self Destruct please destroy all copies you have and never >>think of them again". I only asked that they not be hosted or >>redistributed. If you like Danger City in its current state, you are more >>than welcome to continue playing it. >>As for the reputation, the same holds true for the state of the games in >>question. If I were to keep my old titles up I would have one good game >>packaged in among several substandard games, half of which I didn't write >>but now own, if that makes sense. >>6. It's poor public relations to say that the games can't be >>redistributed. >>So if a major company such as Microsoft decided to stop maintaining or >>supporting software, it would be considered bad PR for them to request >>that the beta of Windows 95 not be redistributed? I know that obviously >>Windows is a commercial product and legally cannot be distributed anyway, >>but I'm sure Jason wanted Danger City to end up as a commercial game, and >>I know if it were me writing it then that's what I would want also. >>7. It's poor pr that people whining is the reason for a big mess of more >>whining. >>I don't call it whining to be fair. I call it bug reporting. And those >>bugs get logged. And when I look at my log, which turns out to be nearly a
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Ken, In that case, I will work on a new title with some of Danger City's concepts in. I think that is a fair compromise is it not? Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "The Addictor" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Oh, I dunno about that. There' just something about going up to that jerk and throwing him, then running up to him before he hits the ground and throwing him again. Also, while it's true you can't play often, once a year or so is enough to forget where those bombs are. On the whole though, if Battle Zone had some bombs and you could throw people, I probably wouldn't touch Danger City. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:18 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed dangercity is bad because it was not finnished and has no replay value. the mines are a bit of a pain to etc but otherwise its ok. At 09:25 p.m. 17/04/2011, you wrote: Hi Dakotah, OK, let's take your arguments one by one and put them into perspective. 1. Once a developer claims a game, that game is the responsibility of the developer. That is very true, and is precisely the reason I do not want it redistributed. Since I still retain copyright on the games, in that regard they still have my name attached to them. 2. If, a while later, the developer no longer wants the game up, then make a redistributable release with no contact information and give it to folks who just want to play the game. That is one thing I do not believe in, is releasing a game without contact information. That really annoys me when I download a game, and therefore I am not willing to stoop to that level myself. I expect to be able to contact the developer in the event of a problem. 3. Personally, I love danger city as it gives me a chance, every so often, to kick the crap out of people in a slightly unique way. Well Dakotah, you are the very first person to tell me they like Danger City, and if that is the case then I may, on popular demand, write a new title that employs those fighting techniques. However, as the owner of Danger City, I am not satisfied with its outcome. 4. I feel about that game very much as I feel about MOTA, although frankly I understand how way better MOTA is. You've hit the nail on the head there. MOTA is a much better game, and I hope to better myself based on what I have seen in MOTA. Based on that if I do write this new fighting game, you can rest assured that it will be ten times better than Danger City was (or at least I hope so). 5. The point is this: someone put time and effort into writing a program for people to play. For one person, who currently owns it, to say that they just don't care anymore, so why should anyone else is a serious blow to a reputation that is crucial for a developer to have. I never said anybody else shouldn't care. I never said, "All players of Danger City and Self Destruct please destroy all copies you have and never think of them again". I only asked that they not be hosted or redistributed. If you like Danger City in its current state, you are more than welcome to continue playing it. As for the reputation, the same holds true for the state of the games in question. If I were to keep my old titles up I would have one good game packaged in among several substandard games, half of which I didn't write but now own, if that makes sense. 6. It's poor public relations to say that the games can't be redistributed. So if a major company such as Microsoft decided to stop maintaining or supporting software, it would be considered bad PR for them to request that the beta of Windows 95 not be redistributed? I know that obviously Windows is a commercial product and legally cannot be distributed anyway, but I'm sure Jason wanted Danger City to end up as a commercial game, and I know if it were me writing it then that's what I would want also. 7. It's poor pr that people whining is the reason for a big mess of more whining. I don't call it whining to be fair. I call it bug reporting. And those bugs get logged. And when I look at my log, which turns out to be nearly a book in length of constant emails of the same bugs, some even repeating previous emails to me in annoyance, I, in return, feel I am doing the best to quieten all parties and taking them down. 8. My vote: make a redistributable without contact info that the people who just love the games so much can grab ahold of and wash your hands of it. Totally unclaim the projects. They aren't yours. End of story. They are still mine until otherwise specified. Yes, granted, the games are bad. But I would like to do similar games and letting go of the own
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Oh, I dunno about that. There' just something about going up to that jerk and throwing him, then running up to him before he hits the ground and throwing him again. Also, while it's true you can't play often, once a year or so is enough to forget where those bombs are. On the whole though, if Battle Zone had some bombs and you could throw people, I probably wouldn't touch Danger City. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:18 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed dangercity is bad because it was not finnished and has no replay value. the mines are a bit of a pain to etc but otherwise its ok. At 09:25 p.m. 17/04/2011, you wrote: Hi Dakotah, OK, let's take your arguments one by one and put them into perspective. 1. Once a developer claims a game, that game is the responsibility of the developer. That is very true, and is precisely the reason I do not want it redistributed. Since I still retain copyright on the games, in that regard they still have my name attached to them. 2. If, a while later, the developer no longer wants the game up, then make a redistributable release with no contact information and give it to folks who just want to play the game. That is one thing I do not believe in, is releasing a game without contact information. That really annoys me when I download a game, and therefore I am not willing to stoop to that level myself. I expect to be able to contact the developer in the event of a problem. 3. Personally, I love danger city as it gives me a chance, every so often, to kick the crap out of people in a slightly unique way. Well Dakotah, you are the very first person to tell me they like Danger City, and if that is the case then I may, on popular demand, write a new title that employs those fighting techniques. However, as the owner of Danger City, I am not satisfied with its outcome. 4. I feel about that game very much as I feel about MOTA, although frankly I understand how way better MOTA is. You've hit the nail on the head there. MOTA is a much better game, and I hope to better myself based on what I have seen in MOTA. Based on that if I do write this new fighting game, you can rest assured that it will be ten times better than Danger City was (or at least I hope so). 5. The point is this: someone put time and effort into writing a program for people to play. For one person, who currently owns it, to say that they just don't care anymore, so why should anyone else is a serious blow to a reputation that is crucial for a developer to have. I never said anybody else shouldn't care. I never said, "All players of Danger City and Self Destruct please destroy all copies you have and never think of them again". I only asked that they not be hosted or redistributed. If you like Danger City in its current state, you are more than welcome to continue playing it. As for the reputation, the same holds true for the state of the games in question. If I were to keep my old titles up I would have one good game packaged in among several substandard games, half of which I didn't write but now own, if that makes sense. 6. It's poor public relations to say that the games can't be redistributed. So if a major company such as Microsoft decided to stop maintaining or supporting software, it would be considered bad PR for them to request that the beta of Windows 95 not be redistributed? I know that obviously Windows is a commercial product and legally cannot be distributed anyway, but I'm sure Jason wanted Danger City to end up as a commercial game, and I know if it were me writing it then that's what I would want also. 7. It's poor pr that people whining is the reason for a big mess of more whining. I don't call it whining to be fair. I call it bug reporting. And those bugs get logged. And when I look at my log, which turns out to be nearly a book in length of constant emails of the same bugs, some even repeating previous emails to me in annoyance, I, in return, feel I am doing the best to quieten all parties and taking them down. 8. My vote: make a redistributable without contact info that the people who just love the games so much can grab ahold of and wash your hands of it. Totally unclaim the projects. They aren't yours. End of story. They are still mine until otherwise specified. Yes, granted, the games are bad. But I would like to do similar games and letting go of the ownership is almost like closing the doors, if that makes sense. Put it this way, if I let go of the ownership, I will do so by passing it to somebody else, and I won't just let it go for free like it's something as basic as a packet of sweets. They have to be seriously ready to sort the games out, whether maintaining the current code o
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
I agree 100%. I still play Danger City sometimes too. As a developer myself, I'm still happy to see World of Darkness floating around out there. Is it buggy? Yeah, a bit. Is it poorly written? Yeah, somewhat--but it's unique, and it's hours of work. I would hate to have somebody say it wasn't worth distributing any more. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com - Original Message - From: "Dakotah Rickard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Listen. I'm not a developer yet, and I say yet because I'm working right now on learning Java, as I think it'll be a long-haul language. I completely understand the complaints on both sides here, but the issue is actually a simple one, and I'll say it as many times as I have to, because I've said it before. Once a developer claims a game, that game is the responsibility of the developer. If, a while later, the developer no longer wants the game up, then make a redistributable release with no contact information and give it to folks who just want to play the game. Personally, I love danger city as it gives me a chance, every so often, to kick the crap out of people in a slightly unique way. I feel about that game very much as I feel about MOTA, although frankly I understand how way better MOTA is. The point is this: someone put time and effort into writing a program for people to play. For one person, who currently owns it, to say that they just don't care anymore, so why should anyone else is a serious blow to a reputation that is crucial for a developer to have. If a developer gets tired of a project so they quit, or if the OS no longer supports the language well, then that's where community lists like this one take over, because God knows there're plenty of computer nuts like myself on this list that can get stuff sorted out, or at least we can say there's no hope, so either get an older system with an older OS or suck it up and deal with no access to that one game. Summary, it's poor public relations to say that the games can't be redistributed. It's good pr that we know why. It's poor pr that people whining is the reason for a big mess of more whining. My vote: make a redistributable without contact info that the people who just love the games so much can grab ahold of and wash your hands of it. Totally unclaim the projects. They aren't yours. End of story. On 4/16/11, Alex Kenny wrote: I'm not a developer, but I think there is a reason why a developer would choose not to allow older programs to be redistributed. As Damien has previously mentioned, these older titles were written in a deprecated language by amateur developers. The code is difficult to read, update, compile and run. I believe there is probably a reputation issue. Developers don't want buggy and useless code floating around the net that they wrote. True, Damien didn't write these games, but by purchasing them, the code is now his responsibility. Another reason I've heard for developers refusing to redistribute abandonware is that, even if they don't support it, people will still contact them expecting help. If Damien did allow the games to be distributed, I have no doubt that someone would download a copy somewhere, encounter a problem, and send Damien an email saying, "Game X won't run! Help!" Even if he emphasizes in the game documentation that the games are abandonware, we've all seen first-hand that many people in the blind community do not bother reading documentation or other information that's right in front of them. On 4/16/11, The Addictor wrote: Hey Tom, While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that no one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games like Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, that he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
I actually beat Redemption, believe it or not. I think Self Destruct is better. At least when I played that I didn't feel like I was playing yet another Bop it game. I like Bop It, but not for a boxing game. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Hi Damien, Yeah, I actually do see your point. It is for that very reason, interesting enough, why I had never put up all of the PB Games, etc. I personally feel something like Snowball War is simply not worth hosting, but I've been asked time and time again to host it for one reason or another so I put it up. However, I have a disclaimer on my website that USA Games does not support those games in any way, shape, or form. If people ask their questions will go unanswered simply because I don't really see any need to keep some games like Snowball War around. If you want it then use it at your own risk. So far no one has really asked for help on any of the games I host so I don't have an issue with hosting them. However, if I was getting flamed, bombarded with questions, etc like you are with the abandoned games then they'd be taken off my website faster than you can say "pronto Tonto." One thing you can be assured of I'm not going to cry over Danger City, Self-Destruct, etc because the games certainly are not worth it. Jason, I think it was who ran XL Studios, was not a very skilled programmer to be frank about it. I remember back when we still had the ag-dev wiki and mailing list Jason released the source for a couple of his games as tutorials, and it was terrible. I suppose I'm a bit bias since I was trained professionally, therefore I try to program using professional standards, but all the same I didn't think it was tutorial quality. I felt that for beginners it would teach them some extremely bad habits, and do to Jason's inexperience I could see mistakes he would be passing on to the next generation developer. So I understand exactly why you don't want to simply upgrade the code, and would have to rewrite it from scratch. In fact, the only game on your list of games I might consider updating would be the Savage Gambit. I think if it was rewritten, given some better keyboard asignments, etc it could be a decent game. However, it is pretty difficult to play in its current state. Cheers! On 4/16/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: Hi Thomas, I just don't feel like they are games worth hosting. All I have had since I have retained the rights to these games are complaints and flames and I feel like they are more trouble than they are worth. If people wanted the games that badly, they would have offered me their support rather than their scorn. The amount of emails I have had complaining about the bug in level 1 in Danger City, or the bug in level 10 of Self Destruct, or the bug in this or the bug in that, and when I explained to them calmly that because these games had been transferred to me they turned around and basically told me to forget it, I figured that neither me nor anybody else should be treated that way and held responsible for these bugs without good cause, whether as a host or a developer. I feel that since I am trying to offer good quality products now, if someone was to redistribute, or host, these games with my name attached to them, they would hold me responsible for the bugs, and it would put them off my next titles, if that makes sense. Hope that helps. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
I think many people full stop don't bother to read the documentation, be they blind or sighted. At 04:50 AM 4/17/2011, you wrote: I'm not a developer, but I think there is a reason why a developer would choose not to allow older programs to be redistributed. As Damien has previously mentioned, these older titles were written in a deprecated language by amateur developers. The code is difficult to read, update, compile and run. I believe there is probably a reputation issue. Developers don't want buggy and useless code floating around the net that they wrote. True, Damien didn't write these games, but by purchasing them, the code is now his responsibility. Another reason I've heard for developers refusing to redistribute abandonware is that, even if they don't support it, people will still contact them expecting help. If Damien did allow the games to be distributed, I have no doubt that someone would download a copy somewhere, encounter a problem, and send Damien an email saying, "Game X won't run! Help!" Even if he emphasizes in the game documentation that the games are abandonware, we've all seen first-hand that many people in the blind community do not bother reading documentation or other information that's right in front of them. On 4/16/11, The Addictor wrote: > Hey Tom, > While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that no > one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games like > Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that > nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, that > he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. > Ken Downey > The Addictor > www.TheAddictor.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Damien, I still believe you should just get rid of the copyrights; you do not plan to work on any of these, and people want them. So what happens when people want theSavage Gambit and such like? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 5:18 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed dangercity is bad because it was not finnished and has no replay value. the mines are a bit of a pain to etc but otherwise its ok. At 09:25 p.m. 17/04/2011, you wrote: >Hi Dakotah, >OK, let's take your arguments one by one and put them into perspective. >1. Once a developer claims a game, that game is the responsibility >of the developer. >That is very true, and is precisely the reason I do not want it >redistributed. Since I still retain copyright on the games, in that >regard they still have my name attached to them. >2. If, a while later, the developer no longer wants the game up, >then make a redistributable release with no contact information and >give it to folks who just want to play the game. >That is one thing I do not believe in, is releasing a game without >contact information. That really annoys me when I download a game, >and therefore I am not willing to stoop to that level myself. I >expect to be able to contact the developer in the event of a problem. >3. Personally, I love danger city as it gives me a chance, every so >often, to kick the crap out of people in a slightly unique way. >Well Dakotah, you are the very first person to tell me they like >Danger City, and if that is the case then I may, on popular demand, >write a new title that employs those fighting techniques. However, >as the owner of Danger City, I am not satisfied with its outcome. >4. I feel about that game very much as I feel about MOTA, although >frankly I understand how way better MOTA is. >You've hit the nail on the head there. MOTA is a much better game, >and I hope to better myself based on what I have seen in MOTA. Based >on that if I do write this new fighting game, you can rest assured >that it will be ten times better than Danger City was (or at least I hope so). >5. The point is this: someone put time and effort into writing a >program for people to play. For one person, who currently owns it, >to say that they just don't care anymore, so why should anyone else >is a serious blow to a reputation that is crucial for a developer to have. >I never said anybody else shouldn't care. I never said, "All players >of Danger City and Self Destruct please destroy all copies you have >and never think of them again". I only asked that they not be hosted >or redistributed. If you like Danger City in its current state, you >are more than welcome to continue playing it. >As for the reputation, the same holds true for the state of the >games in question. If I were to keep my old titles up I would have >one good game packaged in among several substandard games, half of >which I didn't write but now own, if that makes sense. >6. It's poor public relations to say that the games can't be redistributed. >So if a major company such as Microsoft decided to stop maintaining >or supporting software, it would be considered bad PR for them to >request that the beta of Windows 95 not be redistributed? I know >that obviously Windows is a commercial product and legally cannot be >distributed anyway, but I'm sure Jason wanted Danger City to end up >as a commercial game, and I know if it were me writing it then >that's what I would want also. >7. It's poor pr that people whining is the reason for a big mess of >more whining. >I don't call it whining to be fair. I call it bug reporting. And >those bugs get logged. And when I look at my log, which turns out to >be nearly a book in length of constant emails of the same bugs, some >even repeating previous emails to me in annoyance, I, in return, >feel I am doing the best to quieten all parties and taking them down. >8. My vote: make a redistributable without contact info that the >people who just love the games so much can grab ahold of and wash >your hands of it. Totally unclaim the projects. They aren't yours. >End of story. >They are still mine until otherwise specified. Yes, granted, the >games are bad. But I would like to do similar games and letting go >of the ownership is almost like closing the doors, if that makes sense. >Put it this way, if I let go of the ownership, I will do so by >passing it to somebody else, and I won't just let it go for free >like it's something as basic as a packet of sweets. They have to be >seriously ready
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
dangercity is bad because it was not finnished and has no replay value. the mines are a bit of a pain to etc but otherwise its ok. At 09:25 p.m. 17/04/2011, you wrote: Hi Dakotah, OK, let's take your arguments one by one and put them into perspective. 1. Once a developer claims a game, that game is the responsibility of the developer. That is very true, and is precisely the reason I do not want it redistributed. Since I still retain copyright on the games, in that regard they still have my name attached to them. 2. If, a while later, the developer no longer wants the game up, then make a redistributable release with no contact information and give it to folks who just want to play the game. That is one thing I do not believe in, is releasing a game without contact information. That really annoys me when I download a game, and therefore I am not willing to stoop to that level myself. I expect to be able to contact the developer in the event of a problem. 3. Personally, I love danger city as it gives me a chance, every so often, to kick the crap out of people in a slightly unique way. Well Dakotah, you are the very first person to tell me they like Danger City, and if that is the case then I may, on popular demand, write a new title that employs those fighting techniques. However, as the owner of Danger City, I am not satisfied with its outcome. 4. I feel about that game very much as I feel about MOTA, although frankly I understand how way better MOTA is. You've hit the nail on the head there. MOTA is a much better game, and I hope to better myself based on what I have seen in MOTA. Based on that if I do write this new fighting game, you can rest assured that it will be ten times better than Danger City was (or at least I hope so). 5. The point is this: someone put time and effort into writing a program for people to play. For one person, who currently owns it, to say that they just don't care anymore, so why should anyone else is a serious blow to a reputation that is crucial for a developer to have. I never said anybody else shouldn't care. I never said, "All players of Danger City and Self Destruct please destroy all copies you have and never think of them again". I only asked that they not be hosted or redistributed. If you like Danger City in its current state, you are more than welcome to continue playing it. As for the reputation, the same holds true for the state of the games in question. If I were to keep my old titles up I would have one good game packaged in among several substandard games, half of which I didn't write but now own, if that makes sense. 6. It's poor public relations to say that the games can't be redistributed. So if a major company such as Microsoft decided to stop maintaining or supporting software, it would be considered bad PR for them to request that the beta of Windows 95 not be redistributed? I know that obviously Windows is a commercial product and legally cannot be distributed anyway, but I'm sure Jason wanted Danger City to end up as a commercial game, and I know if it were me writing it then that's what I would want also. 7. It's poor pr that people whining is the reason for a big mess of more whining. I don't call it whining to be fair. I call it bug reporting. And those bugs get logged. And when I look at my log, which turns out to be nearly a book in length of constant emails of the same bugs, some even repeating previous emails to me in annoyance, I, in return, feel I am doing the best to quieten all parties and taking them down. 8. My vote: make a redistributable without contact info that the people who just love the games so much can grab ahold of and wash your hands of it. Totally unclaim the projects. They aren't yours. End of story. They are still mine until otherwise specified. Yes, granted, the games are bad. But I would like to do similar games and letting go of the ownership is almost like closing the doors, if that makes sense. Put it this way, if I let go of the ownership, I will do so by passing it to somebody else, and I won't just let it go for free like it's something as basic as a packet of sweets. They have to be seriously ready to sort the games out, whether maintaining the current code or rewriting them from scratch. I'm not going to let people fall into the same trap as I have. Hope this helps. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr..
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
well damien I use timer all the time. If I could test new versions I'd appreciate that as i really find it a usefull training tool. At 08:32 p.m. 17/04/2011, you wrote: Hi Pitermach, Let me make a few things clear. Dectalk Scripter and Timer have not been abandoned. They are still actively being worked on, though Timer is being revamped into a talking clock program. It is taking a while to write, but it will be up there. This is not the list for general software, but when I took those older titles down I did say that they were still on our list. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Pitermach" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed I just wanna say I totally agree. Actually, x-sight has done it before with some programs written ages ago like dectalk scripter and timer. While yes, they were made in autoit and they were buggy, I still find a use for them and still do use them on occasion. And about Acefire, though it is a simple game, I seriusly think it's kind of enjoyable (ever tried just pressing the shooting keys with speech off so you don't see what's happening?) About the abandoneware games. Self destruct isn't actually *that* bad and can really give you quite a challenge Well, it does for me anyway without any cheats. - Original Message - From: "Dakotah Rickard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
well I wouldn't mind if timer started development again. I use it for my training sertain things need me to count my seconds in holds and such and i find it rather usefull. I think it still has a use, though its probably gona have to be ported to something else or something I don't know. At 08:25 p.m. 17/04/2011, you wrote: I just wanna say I totally agree. Actually, x-sight has done it before with some programs written ages ago like dectalk scripter and timer. While yes, they were made in autoit and they were buggy, I still find a use for them and still do use them on occasion. And about Acefire, though it is a simple game, I seriusly think it's kind of enjoyable (ever tried just pressing the shooting keys with speech off so you don't see what's happening?) About the abandoneware games. Self destruct isn't actually *that* bad and can really give you quite a challenge Well, it does for me anyway without any cheats. - Original Message - From: "Dakotah Rickard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Alex, Precisely. I feel that these games are way below my current standard now, especially as regards bugs. So it's simple. I either recreate Danger City on popular demand and completely revamp it and commercialise it under a new name, but keep some of the concepts the same, or I transfer the rights to somebody else. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Alex Kenny" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed I'm not a developer, but I think there is a reason why a developer would choose not to allow older programs to be redistributed. As Damien has previously mentioned, these older titles were written in a deprecated language by amateur developers. The code is difficult to read, update, compile and run. I believe there is probably a reputation issue. Developers don't want buggy and useless code floating around the net that they wrote. True, Damien didn't write these games, but by purchasing them, the code is now his responsibility. Another reason I've heard for developers refusing to redistribute abandonware is that, even if they don't support it, people will still contact them expecting help. If Damien did allow the games to be distributed, I have no doubt that someone would download a copy somewhere, encounter a problem, and send Damien an email saying, "Game X won't run! Help!" Even if he emphasizes in the game documentation that the games are abandonware, we've all seen first-hand that many people in the blind community do not bother reading documentation or other information that's right in front of them. On 4/16/11, The Addictor wrote: Hey Tom, While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that no one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games like Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, that he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Dakotah, OK, let's take your arguments one by one and put them into perspective. 1. Once a developer claims a game, that game is the responsibility of the developer. That is very true, and is precisely the reason I do not want it redistributed. Since I still retain copyright on the games, in that regard they still have my name attached to them. 2. If, a while later, the developer no longer wants the game up, then make a redistributable release with no contact information and give it to folks who just want to play the game. That is one thing I do not believe in, is releasing a game without contact information. That really annoys me when I download a game, and therefore I am not willing to stoop to that level myself. I expect to be able to contact the developer in the event of a problem. 3. Personally, I love danger city as it gives me a chance, every so often, to kick the crap out of people in a slightly unique way. Well Dakotah, you are the very first person to tell me they like Danger City, and if that is the case then I may, on popular demand, write a new title that employs those fighting techniques. However, as the owner of Danger City, I am not satisfied with its outcome. 4. I feel about that game very much as I feel about MOTA, although frankly I understand how way better MOTA is. You've hit the nail on the head there. MOTA is a much better game, and I hope to better myself based on what I have seen in MOTA. Based on that if I do write this new fighting game, you can rest assured that it will be ten times better than Danger City was (or at least I hope so). 5. The point is this: someone put time and effort into writing a program for people to play. For one person, who currently owns it, to say that they just don't care anymore, so why should anyone else is a serious blow to a reputation that is crucial for a developer to have. I never said anybody else shouldn't care. I never said, "All players of Danger City and Self Destruct please destroy all copies you have and never think of them again". I only asked that they not be hosted or redistributed. If you like Danger City in its current state, you are more than welcome to continue playing it. As for the reputation, the same holds true for the state of the games in question. If I were to keep my old titles up I would have one good game packaged in among several substandard games, half of which I didn't write but now own, if that makes sense. 6. It's poor public relations to say that the games can't be redistributed. So if a major company such as Microsoft decided to stop maintaining or supporting software, it would be considered bad PR for them to request that the beta of Windows 95 not be redistributed? I know that obviously Windows is a commercial product and legally cannot be distributed anyway, but I'm sure Jason wanted Danger City to end up as a commercial game, and I know if it were me writing it then that's what I would want also. 7. It's poor pr that people whining is the reason for a big mess of more whining. I don't call it whining to be fair. I call it bug reporting. And those bugs get logged. And when I look at my log, which turns out to be nearly a book in length of constant emails of the same bugs, some even repeating previous emails to me in annoyance, I, in return, feel I am doing the best to quieten all parties and taking them down. 8. My vote: make a redistributable without contact info that the people who just love the games so much can grab ahold of and wash your hands of it. Totally unclaim the projects. They aren't yours. End of story. They are still mine until otherwise specified. Yes, granted, the games are bad. But I would like to do similar games and letting go of the ownership is almost like closing the doors, if that makes sense. Put it this way, if I let go of the ownership, I will do so by passing it to somebody else, and I won't just let it go for free like it's something as basic as a packet of sweets. They have to be seriously ready to sort the games out, whether maintaining the current code or rewriting them from scratch. I'm not going to let people fall into the same trap as I have. Hope this helps. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Pitermach, Let me make a few things clear. Dectalk Scripter and Timer have not been abandoned. They are still actively being worked on, though Timer is being revamped into a talking clock program. It is taking a while to write, but it will be up there. This is not the list for general software, but when I took those older titles down I did say that they were still on our list. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Pitermach" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed I just wanna say I totally agree. Actually, x-sight has done it before with some programs written ages ago like dectalk scripter and timer. While yes, they were made in autoit and they were buggy, I still find a use for them and still do use them on occasion. And about Acefire, though it is a simple game, I seriusly think it's kind of enjoyable (ever tried just pressing the shooting keys with speech off so you don't see what's happening?) About the abandoneware games. Self destruct isn't actually *that* bad and can really give you quite a challenge Well, it does for me anyway without any cheats. - Original Message - From: "Dakotah Rickard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
I just wanna say I totally agree. Actually, x-sight has done it before with some programs written ages ago like dectalk scripter and timer. While yes, they were made in autoit and they were buggy, I still find a use for them and still do use them on occasion. And about Acefire, though it is a simple game, I seriusly think it's kind of enjoyable (ever tried just pressing the shooting keys with speech off so you don't see what's happening?) About the abandoneware games. Self destruct isn't actually *that* bad and can really give you quite a challenge Well, it does for me anyway without any cheats. - Original Message - From: "Dakotah Rickard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Listen. I'm not a developer yet, and I say yet because I'm working right now on learning Java, as I think it'll be a long-haul language. I completely understand the complaints on both sides here, but the issue is actually a simple one, and I'll say it as many times as I have to, because I've said it before. Once a developer claims a game, that game is the responsibility of the developer. If, a while later, the developer no longer wants the game up, then make a redistributable release with no contact information and give it to folks who just want to play the game. Personally, I love danger city as it gives me a chance, every so often, to kick the crap out of people in a slightly unique way. I feel about that game very much as I feel about MOTA, although frankly I understand how way better MOTA is. The point is this: someone put time and effort into writing a program for people to play. For one person, who currently owns it, to say that they just don't care anymore, so why should anyone else is a serious blow to a reputation that is crucial for a developer to have. If a developer gets tired of a project so they quit, or if the OS no longer supports the language well, then that's where community lists like this one take over, because God knows there're plenty of computer nuts like myself on this list that can get stuff sorted out, or at least we can say there's no hope, so either get an older system with an older OS or suck it up and deal with no access to that one game. Summary, it's poor public relations to say that the games can't be redistributed. It's good pr that we know why. It's poor pr that people whining is the reason for a big mess of more whining. My vote: make a redistributable without contact info that the people who just love the games so much can grab ahold of and wash your hands of it. Totally unclaim the projects. They aren't yours. End of story. On 4/16/11, Alex Kenny wrote: > I'm not a developer, but I think there is a reason why a developer > would choose not to allow older programs to be redistributed. > > As Damien has previously mentioned, these older titles were written in > a deprecated language by amateur developers. The code is difficult to > read, update, compile and run. I believe there is probably a > reputation issue. Developers don't want buggy and useless code > floating around the net that they wrote. True, Damien didn't write > these games, but by purchasing them, the code is now his > responsibility. > > Another reason I've heard for developers refusing to redistribute > abandonware is that, even if they don't support it, people will still > contact them expecting help. If Damien did allow the games to be > distributed, I have no doubt that someone would download a copy > somewhere, encounter a problem, and send Damien an email saying, "Game > X won't run! Help!" Even if he emphasizes in the game documentation > that the games are abandonware, we've all seen first-hand that many > people in the blind community do not bother reading documentation or > other information that's right in front of them. > > > On 4/16/11, The Addictor wrote: >> Hey Tom, >> While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that >> no >> one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games >> like >> Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that >> nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, >> that >> he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. >> Ken Downey >> The Addictor >> www.TheAddictor.com > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
I'm not a developer, but I think there is a reason why a developer would choose not to allow older programs to be redistributed. As Damien has previously mentioned, these older titles were written in a deprecated language by amateur developers. The code is difficult to read, update, compile and run. I believe there is probably a reputation issue. Developers don't want buggy and useless code floating around the net that they wrote. True, Damien didn't write these games, but by purchasing them, the code is now his responsibility. Another reason I've heard for developers refusing to redistribute abandonware is that, even if they don't support it, people will still contact them expecting help. If Damien did allow the games to be distributed, I have no doubt that someone would download a copy somewhere, encounter a problem, and send Damien an email saying, "Game X won't run! Help!" Even if he emphasizes in the game documentation that the games are abandonware, we've all seen first-hand that many people in the blind community do not bother reading documentation or other information that's right in front of them. On 4/16/11, The Addictor wrote: > Hey Tom, > While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that no > one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games like > Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that > nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, that > he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. > Ken Downey > The Addictor > www.TheAddictor.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
I tend to agree with you. The idea of having the controls in the shape of a human body was creative I'll admit but not very practical for most people. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Hi Hayden, The problem with the Savage Gambit is the keyboard commands. To me they don't make a lot of sense. I always press the wrong key or forget what does what. What I meant by difficult is that its not intuitive. However, on the other hand, as a plus, it does require practice to get good at playing. On 4/16/11, Hayden Presley wrote: Hi Thomas, You find that one difficult? I haven't had too much trouble; I've made it all the way to the final fight on redemption but am now stuck. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Yeah it's difficult. I for one could never remember the control scheme, much less in time to act before I got the crap beaten out of me. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Hi Thomas, You find that one difficult? I haven't had too much trouble; I've made it all the way to the final fight on redemption but am now stuck. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 6:30 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Hi Damien, Yeah, I actually do see your point. It is for that very reason, interesting enough, why I had never put up all of the PB Games, etc. I personally feel something like Snowball War is simply not worth hosting, but I've been asked time and time again to host it for one reason or another so I put it up. However, I have a disclaimer on my website that USA Games does not support those games in any way, shape, or form. If people ask their questions will go unanswered simply because I don't really see any need to keep some games like Snowball War around. If you want it then use it at your own risk. So far no one has really asked for help on any of the games I host so I don't have an issue with hosting them. However, if I was getting flamed, bombarded with questions, etc like you are with the abandoned games then they'd be taken off my website faster than you can say "pronto Tonto." One thing you can be assured of I'm not going to cry over Danger City, Self-Destruct, etc because the games certainly are not worth it. Jason, I think it was who ran XL Studios, was not a very skilled programmer to be frank about it. I remember back when we still had the ag-dev wiki and mailing list Jason released the source for a couple of his games as tutorials, and it was terrible. I suppose I'm a bit bias since I was trained professionally, therefore I try to program using professional standards, but all the same I didn't think it was tutorial quality. I felt that for beginners it would teach them some extremely bad habits, and do to Jason's inexperience I could see mistakes he would be passing on to the next generation developer. So I understand exactly why you don't want to simply upgrade the code, and would have to rewrite it from scratch. In fact, the only game on your list of games I might consider updating would be the Savage Gambit. I think if it was rewritten, given some better keyboard asignments, etc it could be a decent game. However, it is pretty difficult to play in its current state. Cheers! On 4/16/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: Hi Thomas, I just don't feel like they are games worth hosting. All I have had since I have retained the rights to these games are complaints and flames and I feel like they are more trouble than they are worth. If people wanted the games that badly, they would have offered me their support rather than their scorn. The amount of emails I have had complaining about the bug in level 1 in Danger City, or the bug in level 10 of Self Destruct, or the bug in this or the bug in that, and when I explained to them calmly that because these games had been transferred to me they turned around and basically told me to forget it, I figured that neither me nor anybody else should be treated that way and held responsible for these bugs without good cause, whether as a host or a developer. I feel that since I am trying to offer good quality products now, if someone was to redistribute, or host, these games with my name attached to them, they would hold me responsible for the bugs, and it would put them off my next titles, if that makes sense. Hope that helps. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Hayden, The problem with the Savage Gambit is the keyboard commands. To me they don't make a lot of sense. I always press the wrong key or forget what does what. What I meant by difficult is that its not intuitive. However, on the other hand, as a plus, it does require practice to get good at playing. On 4/16/11, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Thomas, > You find that one difficult? I haven't had too much trouble; I've made it > all the way to the final fight on redemption but am now stuck. > > Best Regards, > Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
neither ken. Shell shock is ok but its hardly a game I'd concider playing often if at all. I will ocationally play it and for its time even then it was not much. At 06:27 a.m. 17/04/2011, you wrote: Hey Tom, While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that no one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games like Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, that he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Hi Hayden and all, I think there is more to it than that. For a developer its not so cut and dry. There are other issues to consider besides just throwing it up there and letting people download game x with or without support. For example, it costs us money to purchase extra drive space on a web server, it costs us money for the bandwidth we use, and every download of game x goes right on our bill even if it might be pennies on the dollar. So just because you might want to download the Savage Gambit or some other old game, but you aren't exactly paying the bills either. So its not really up to you what a developer does and does not choose to host on his/her website. I myself have a number of old abandoned games on my website with more being added this weekend. However, let's not forget that is a service I'm doing for the community because I happen to have enough drive space and bandwidth to do it free of charge. If my financial situation changes, have to end up getting a different hosting plan, etc that's going to be the first thing I cut out of my budget. It has nothing to do with weather I should or should not offer these games, but weather I personally can afford to maintain the service without charging you guys for it. Now, imagine let's say bandwidth and drive space was an issue for Damien and you guys started complaining that Self-Destruct, Savage Gambit, and Danger City, weren't available for download. Let's say he offers to host them if you pay him a yearly subscription fee of $10.00 which would go towards buying extra drive space, bandwidth, and any other website upkeep fees. Would you personally go for it, or would you turn around and say its too expensive and not worry about the games? See, that's were the rubber meets the road for me. You are all willing to ask for this kind of service as long as it is free, but if it has to come out of your own wallet then its a different tune. I think it is high time you stop thinking about only what you want, and think about us, the developers, and what we need. See why we might not choose to continue supporting or offering a certain product for download instead of complaining about it as we generally have valid reasons for doing what we do. Cheers! On 4/16/11, Hayden Presley wrote: Hi, While I see the merits of supporting them, I do not see the merits of simply saying, ah to heck with them and removing them from your site. All you need say is that X-Sight holds no responsibility for the software working faultily. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Thomas, You find that one difficult? I haven't had too much trouble; I've made it all the way to the final fight on redemption but am now stuck. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 6:30 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Hi Damien, Yeah, I actually do see your point. It is for that very reason, interesting enough, why I had never put up all of the PB Games, etc. I personally feel something like Snowball War is simply not worth hosting, but I've been asked time and time again to host it for one reason or another so I put it up. However, I have a disclaimer on my website that USA Games does not support those games in any way, shape, or form. If people ask their questions will go unanswered simply because I don't really see any need to keep some games like Snowball War around. If you want it then use it at your own risk. So far no one has really asked for help on any of the games I host so I don't have an issue with hosting them. However, if I was getting flamed, bombarded with questions, etc like you are with the abandoned games then they'd be taken off my website faster than you can say "pronto Tonto." One thing you can be assured of I'm not going to cry over Danger City, Self-Destruct, etc because the games certainly are not worth it. Jason, I think it was who ran XL Studios, was not a very skilled programmer to be frank about it. I remember back when we still had the ag-dev wiki and mailing list Jason released the source for a couple of his games as tutorials, and it was terrible. I suppose I'm a bit bias since I was trained professionally, therefore I try to program using professional standards, but all the same I didn't think it was tutorial quality. I felt that for beginners it would teach them some extremely bad habits, and do to Jason's inexperience I could see mistakes he would be passing on to the next generation developer. So I understand exactly why you don't want to simply upgrade the code, and would have to rewrite it from scratch. In fact, the only game on your list of games I might consider updating would be the Savage Gambit. I think if it was rewritten, given some better keyboard asignments, etc it could be a decent game. However, it is pretty difficult to play in its current state. Cheers! On 4/16/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Thomas, > I just don't feel like they are games worth hosting. All I have had since I > have retained the rights to these games are complaints and flames and I feel > like they are more trouble than they are worth. If people wanted the games > that badly, they would have offered me their support rather than their > scorn. The amount of emails I have had complaining about the bug in level 1 > in Danger City, or the bug in level 10 of Self Destruct, or the bug in this > or the bug in that, and when I explained to them calmly that because these > games had been transferred to me they turned around and basically told me to > forget it, I figured that neither me nor anybody else should be treated that > way and held responsible for these bugs without good cause, whether as a > host or a developer. I feel that since I am trying to offer good quality > products now, if someone was to redistribute, or host, these games with my > name attached to them, they would hold me responsible for the bugs, and it > would put them off my next titles, if that makes sense. > Hope that helps. > Regards, > Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Damien, Yeah, I actually do see your point. It is for that very reason, interesting enough, why I had never put up all of the PB Games, etc. I personally feel something like Snowball War is simply not worth hosting, but I've been asked time and time again to host it for one reason or another so I put it up. However, I have a disclaimer on my website that USA Games does not support those games in any way, shape, or form. If people ask their questions will go unanswered simply because I don't really see any need to keep some games like Snowball War around. If you want it then use it at your own risk. So far no one has really asked for help on any of the games I host so I don't have an issue with hosting them. However, if I was getting flamed, bombarded with questions, etc like you are with the abandoned games then they'd be taken off my website faster than you can say "pronto Tonto." One thing you can be assured of I'm not going to cry over Danger City, Self-Destruct, etc because the games certainly are not worth it. Jason, I think it was who ran XL Studios, was not a very skilled programmer to be frank about it. I remember back when we still had the ag-dev wiki and mailing list Jason released the source for a couple of his games as tutorials, and it was terrible. I suppose I'm a bit bias since I was trained professionally, therefore I try to program using professional standards, but all the same I didn't think it was tutorial quality. I felt that for beginners it would teach them some extremely bad habits, and do to Jason's inexperience I could see mistakes he would be passing on to the next generation developer. So I understand exactly why you don't want to simply upgrade the code, and would have to rewrite it from scratch. In fact, the only game on your list of games I might consider updating would be the Savage Gambit. I think if it was rewritten, given some better keyboard asignments, etc it could be a decent game. However, it is pretty difficult to play in its current state. Cheers! On 4/16/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Thomas, > I just don't feel like they are games worth hosting. All I have had since I > have retained the rights to these games are complaints and flames and I feel > like they are more trouble than they are worth. If people wanted the games > that badly, they would have offered me their support rather than their > scorn. The amount of emails I have had complaining about the bug in level 1 > in Danger City, or the bug in level 10 of Self Destruct, or the bug in this > or the bug in that, and when I explained to them calmly that because these > games had been transferred to me they turned around and basically told me to > forget it, I figured that neither me nor anybody else should be treated that > way and held responsible for these bugs without good cause, whether as a > host or a developer. I feel that since I am trying to offer good quality > products now, if someone was to redistribute, or host, these games with my > name attached to them, they would hold me responsible for the bugs, and it > would put them off my next titles, if that makes sense. > Hope that helps. > Regards, > Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Thomas, I just don't feel like they are games worth hosting. All I have had since I have retained the rights to these games are complaints and flames and I feel like they are more trouble than they are worth. If people wanted the games that badly, they would have offered me their support rather than their scorn. The amount of emails I have had complaining about the bug in level 1 in Danger City, or the bug in level 10 of Self Destruct, or the bug in this or the bug in that, and when I explained to them calmly that because these games had been transferred to me they turned around and basically told me to forget it, I figured that neither me nor anybody else should be treated that way and held responsible for these bugs without good cause, whether as a host or a developer. I feel that since I am trying to offer good quality products now, if someone was to redistribute, or host, these games with my name attached to them, they would hold me responsible for the bugs, and it would put them off my next titles, if that makes sense. Hope that helps. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "The Addictor" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Hi Ken, Yeah, I don't quite get that part either. Even though I'm hosting the DanZ Games, PB Games, etc I don't exactly have a polacy of nobody else can redistribute them. Its not like I own them exactly and I consider them shareware for all. I think Damien should do the same for Danger City, Savage Gambit, etc. They are not great games, but even if he doesn't want to host them people should retain the right to redistribute them via Sendspace or something. On 4/16/11, The Addictor wrote: Hey Tom, While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that no one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games like Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, that he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Ken, Yeah, I don't quite get that part either. Even though I'm hosting the DanZ Games, PB Games, etc I don't exactly have a polacy of nobody else can redistribute them. Its not like I own them exactly and I consider them shareware for all. I think Damien should do the same for Danger City, Savage Gambit, etc. They are not great games, but even if he doesn't want to host them people should retain the right to redistribute them via Sendspace or something. On 4/16/11, The Addictor wrote: > Hey Tom, > While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that no > one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games like > Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that > nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, that > he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. > Ken Downey > The Addictor > www.TheAddictor.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hey Tom, While I agree a hundred per cent, I still don't see why he's asking that no one else distribute the games. I have them all, as well as other games like Shell Shock. They are certainly not all that great, but to demand that nobody else distribute them seems a bit odd. I know they're his games, that he purchased them, but I don't see a reason for that. Ken Downey The Addictor www.TheAddictor.com - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Hi Hayden and all, I think there is more to it than that. For a developer its not so cut and dry. There are other issues to consider besides just throwing it up there and letting people download game x with or without support. For example, it costs us money to purchase extra drive space on a web server, it costs us money for the bandwidth we use, and every download of game x goes right on our bill even if it might be pennies on the dollar. So just because you might want to download the Savage Gambit or some other old game, but you aren't exactly paying the bills either. So its not really up to you what a developer does and does not choose to host on his/her website. I myself have a number of old abandoned games on my website with more being added this weekend. However, let's not forget that is a service I'm doing for the community because I happen to have enough drive space and bandwidth to do it free of charge. If my financial situation changes, have to end up getting a different hosting plan, etc that's going to be the first thing I cut out of my budget. It has nothing to do with weather I should or should not offer these games, but weather I personally can afford to maintain the service without charging you guys for it. Now, imagine let's say bandwidth and drive space was an issue for Damien and you guys started complaining that Self-Destruct, Savage Gambit, and Danger City, weren't available for download. Let's say he offers to host them if you pay him a yearly subscription fee of $10.00 which would go towards buying extra drive space, bandwidth, and any other website upkeep fees. Would you personally go for it, or would you turn around and say its too expensive and not worry about the games? See, that's were the rubber meets the road for me. You are all willing to ask for this kind of service as long as it is free, but if it has to come out of your own wallet then its a different tune. I think it is high time you stop thinking about only what you want, and think about us, the developers, and what we need. See why we might not choose to continue supporting or offering a certain product for download instead of complaining about it as we generally have valid reasons for doing what we do. Cheers! On 4/16/11, Hayden Presley wrote: Hi, While I see the merits of supporting them, I do not see the merits of simply saying, ah to heck with them and removing them from your site. All you need say is that X-Sight holds no responsibility for the software working faultily. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Hayden and all, I think there is more to it than that. For a developer its not so cut and dry. There are other issues to consider besides just throwing it up there and letting people download game x with or without support. For example, it costs us money to purchase extra drive space on a web server, it costs us money for the bandwidth we use, and every download of game x goes right on our bill even if it might be pennies on the dollar. So just because you might want to download the Savage Gambit or some other old game, but you aren't exactly paying the bills either. So its not really up to you what a developer does and does not choose to host on his/her website. I myself have a number of old abandoned games on my website with more being added this weekend. However, let's not forget that is a service I'm doing for the community because I happen to have enough drive space and bandwidth to do it free of charge. If my financial situation changes, have to end up getting a different hosting plan, etc that's going to be the first thing I cut out of my budget. It has nothing to do with weather I should or should not offer these games, but weather I personally can afford to maintain the service without charging you guys for it. Now, imagine let's say bandwidth and drive space was an issue for Damien and you guys started complaining that Self-Destruct, Savage Gambit, and Danger City, weren't available for download. Let's say he offers to host them if you pay him a yearly subscription fee of $10.00 which would go towards buying extra drive space, bandwidth, and any other website upkeep fees. Would you personally go for it, or would you turn around and say its too expensive and not worry about the games? See, that's were the rubber meets the road for me. You are all willing to ask for this kind of service as long as it is free, but if it has to come out of your own wallet then its a different tune. I think it is high time you stop thinking about only what you want, and think about us, the developers, and what we need. See why we might not choose to continue supporting or offering a certain product for download instead of complaining about it as we generally have valid reasons for doing what we do. Cheers! On 4/16/11, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi, > While I see the merits of supporting them, I do not see the merits of simply > saying, ah to heck with them and removing them from your site. All you need > say is that X-Sight holds no responsibility for the software working > faultily. > > Best Regards, > Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi, While I see the merits of supporting them, I do not see the merits of simply saying, ah to heck with them and removing them from your site. All you need say is that X-Sight holds no responsibility for the software working faultily. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed well I still use timer 1.0 which is quite old I wouldn't mind that maintained or put into something else. >Well, I got way too emotional that last message. Lol! >I don't consider x-sight a failure, it's just I've seen old projects >being just sort of removed quite a few times in the passed 5 years. >Anyway, I think someone like Thomas should at least host the games >on his website as is, just like it's been done with pb-games. >- Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" > >To: "Gamers Discussion list" >Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM >Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed > > >>Hi Pitermach, >>I'm sorry you feel inclined to believe us a failure. Obviously I >>cannot change your views on the subject. However if you feel the >>games are worth the maintenance, contact me offlist and I can >>certainly make arrangements with you so that you may maintain the >>games yourself, which I must emphasise, includes fixing bugs, >>reading amateur code, and optionally replacing the sounds and >>cleaning up the documentation to your liking. >>As far as I am concerned, I feel it is more worth the time, energy, >>money and resources to develop new titles rather than splashing out >>on old titles that are only going to continue to be free and >>substandard anyway. >>Regards, >>Damien. >> >> >>- Original Message - From: "Pitermach" >>To: "Gamers Discussion list" >>Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 4:25 PM >>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed >> >> >>>this is seriusly wrong. this is, if I'm not mistaking, a 3rd >>>x-sight, or more like, x-depressing, whipeout. fail. >>>- Original Message - >>>__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>>signature database 5266 (20100709) __ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>--- >>>Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>>If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>>You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >>>If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >>>please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> >> >>--- >>Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >>If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >>please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> >>__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 5266 (20100709) __ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com >> >> > > >__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 5266 (20100709) __ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > > > >--- >Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Shaun, Yeah, one would hope BGT will stay current for the long hall. Still even if not once Philip makes some upgrades like adding XAudio2 support and things like that which he is adding now any games written with it will be pretty up to date for at least the next 5 years or so for sure. We already know things like XAudio2 is going to be the default audio library/API for the next major Windows release and what Philip is doing now is simply adding that support so that his engine is ready for the next generation Windows operating system. That kind of planning ahead is smart and will benifit the community as a whole. On 4/15/11, shaun everiss wrote: > not to mention that bgt will always stay current. > And in most cases the code will stay the same anything in the > background will just need another upgraded engine. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
not to mention that bgt will always stay current. And in most cases the code will stay the same anything in the background will just need another upgraded engine. Hi Damien, Well, as a software developer and gamer myself I think you are doing the right thing. As you correctly pointed out Visual Basic 6 is an extremely old development platform and language and for those of us who have already made the transition to Windows 7, especially those running newer 64-bit platforms, the technology is falling further and further behind the mainstream development. I personally believe for those developers who don't want to learn something like C++, Java, etc BGT is the only way forward in terms of Windows game development. So you are in my opinion making a good decision. Cheers! On 4/14/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi all, > Due to our aim in bringing you quality audiogames and software, we have > found it necessary to discontinue support for old titles. Games such as Self > Destruct, Acefire, Danger City and the Savage Gamut are no longer being > maintained or supported, while Giftanum will shortly be offered for download > as an open source educational project. > This has been done for several reasons, all of which we have attempted to > outline below: > Firstly, all the older titles were programmed in a now depricated platform, > and are getting more and more unplayable as later versions of Windows are > released into the market. They are only just playable on Windows Vista and > Windows 7, and even that requires several dependencies to be installed. > Secondly, these were originally games written by third party developers who > have different methods of programming. As a consequence it is much harder to > read and understand the way the program is written, so maintaining them in > their current state is impractical. > Thirdly, since most of these titles are in a state of completion, > maintenance is all that is required, especially with some of the games that > contain many critical bugs. As maintaining them is impractical and the > development platform is now itself discontinued, the only available option > to us is rewriting them from scratch. Given the amount of work it would take > and the fact that they were considered free beforehand, it isn't worth the > effort that would be involved.. We find it best to work purely on our own > titles so that we can concentrate fully on the quality of our work and the > finality of our products. > I hope this explanation has helped you to understand and support our > decision, and are sorry for any inconveniences caused. > Although we have discontinued support and maintenance of these titles, > X-Sight Interactive still retains the copyright to these titles until such > time as further arrangements can be made. With that in mind I ask that these > titles are not hosted or redistributed to any third party in any way in > their current state. > We thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this matter. > Regards, > Damien Pendleton. > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
well I still use timer 1.0 which is quite old I wouldn't mind that maintained or put into something else. Well, I got way too emotional that last message. Lol! I don't consider x-sight a failure, it's just I've seen old projects being just sort of removed quite a few times in the passed 5 years. Anyway, I think someone like Thomas should at least host the games on his website as is, just like it's been done with pb-games. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Hi Pitermach, I'm sorry you feel inclined to believe us a failure. Obviously I cannot change your views on the subject. However if you feel the games are worth the maintenance, contact me offlist and I can certainly make arrangements with you so that you may maintain the games yourself, which I must emphasise, includes fixing bugs, reading amateur code, and optionally replacing the sounds and cleaning up the documentation to your liking. As far as I am concerned, I feel it is more worth the time, energy, money and resources to develop new titles rather than splashing out on old titles that are only going to continue to be free and substandard anyway. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Pitermach" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed this is seriusly wrong. this is, if I'm not mistaking, a 3rd x-sight, or more like, x-depressing, whipeout. fail. - Original Message - __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Pitr, I don't think that is very fair. This has nothing to do with X-Sight being a failure, or that Damien is in someway a poor developer. What Damien is doing makes perfect sense to me, and as a developer I understand completely where he is coming from on this matter. What a lot of you guys tend to fail to understand time and time again is that the majority of accessible games were written by amateurs who only have a basic understanding of programming to begin with, and to make matters worse they chose to use an easy programming language like Visual Basic 6 which is now an extremely old programming technology that can't meet the specifications required for newer Windows releases. If someone like Damien wants to simply upgrade the games he'll have to work with the existing code, which can be difficult since no two developers think the same, and locate all of the possible bugs which is very very time consuming. The alternative is to simply rewrite the games from scratch in a newer programming language like C++, Java, BGT, whatever which can be just as time consuming because you have to figure out how the program works and rewrite it in your own particular style and language of choice. Since most of the games like the Savage Gambit, Self-Destruct, are now considered freeware anyway there is no real advantage to being gained by rewriting it when there might be newer more interesting projects to create. Some of the games like Self-Destruct, to be perfectly honest, isn't that much of a great game to begin with. I think I played it once and then uninstalled it, because I really didn't like the game. So you have to forgive me for saying so, but I don't see any point in continuing the project. I'm sure Damien can create something far better than Self-Destruct if given half a chance to do so. The difference here is, as I see it, taking over a project like Raceway was worth it. It was a commercial project, James North wasn't really an amateur, and I've learned something from reading his code I didn't know before. Of course, I've improved upon his design by rewriting it in C++ and using my own programming skills, but I'll get my money back by selling it. Something like Self-Destruct has no future as a comercial project, and unless there are some major improvements it is still just going to be a so-so game at best. Why not start fresh with a better game idea and run with it? Cheers! On 4/14/11, Pitermach wrote: > this is seriusly wrong. this is, if I'm not mistaking, a 3rd x-sight, or > more like, x-depressing, whipeout. fail. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Damien, Well, as a software developer and gamer myself I think you are doing the right thing. As you correctly pointed out Visual Basic 6 is an extremely old development platform and language and for those of us who have already made the transition to Windows 7, especially those running newer 64-bit platforms, the technology is falling further and further behind the mainstream development. I personally believe for those developers who don't want to learn something like C++, Java, etc BGT is the only way forward in terms of Windows game development. So you are in my opinion making a good decision. Cheers! On 4/14/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi all, > Due to our aim in bringing you quality audiogames and software, we have > found it necessary to discontinue support for old titles. Games such as Self > Destruct, Acefire, Danger City and the Savage Gamut are no longer being > maintained or supported, while Giftanum will shortly be offered for download > as an open source educational project. > This has been done for several reasons, all of which we have attempted to > outline below: > Firstly, all the older titles were programmed in a now depricated platform, > and are getting more and more unplayable as later versions of Windows are > released into the market. They are only just playable on Windows Vista and > Windows 7, and even that requires several dependencies to be installed. > Secondly, these were originally games written by third party developers who > have different methods of programming. As a consequence it is much harder to > read and understand the way the program is written, so maintaining them in > their current state is impractical. > Thirdly, since most of these titles are in a state of completion, > maintenance is all that is required, especially with some of the games that > contain many critical bugs. As maintaining them is impractical and the > development platform is now itself discontinued, the only available option > to us is rewriting them from scratch. Given the amount of work it would take > and the fact that they were considered free beforehand, it isn't worth the > effort that would be involved.. We find it best to work purely on our own > titles so that we can concentrate fully on the quality of our work and the > finality of our products. > I hope this explanation has helped you to understand and support our > decision, and are sorry for any inconveniences caused. > Although we have discontinued support and maintenance of these titles, > X-Sight Interactive still retains the copyright to these titles until such > time as further arrangements can be made. With that in mind I ask that these > titles are not hosted or redistributed to any third party in any way in > their current state. > We thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this matter. > Regards, > Damien Pendleton. > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Pitermach, Apology accepted. As per your question regarding hosting the game elsewhere, purely because of the amount of bugs that are contained within these titles, I'd rather they were not redistributed. If someone is willing to take over these projects then they can obviously set their own terms regarding redistribution in the interim that the games are made fit for a new release, however as I said in my original message and my forum post, I am retaining the copyrights and ownership on the titles unless otherwise stated by me, or another developer if they have made appropriate arrangements with me. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Pitermach" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Well, I got way too emotional that last message. Lol! I don't consider x-sight a failure, it's just I've seen old projects being just sort of removed quite a few times in the passed 5 years. Anyway, I think someone like Thomas should at least host the games on his website as is, just like it's been done with pb-games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Well, I got way too emotional that last message. Lol! I don't consider x-sight a failure, it's just I've seen old projects being just sort of removed quite a few times in the passed 5 years. Anyway, I think someone like Thomas should at least host the games on his website as is, just like it's been done with pb-games. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed Hi Pitermach, I'm sorry you feel inclined to believe us a failure. Obviously I cannot change your views on the subject. However if you feel the games are worth the maintenance, contact me offlist and I can certainly make arrangements with you so that you may maintain the games yourself, which I must emphasise, includes fixing bugs, reading amateur code, and optionally replacing the sounds and cleaning up the documentation to your liking. As far as I am concerned, I feel it is more worth the time, energy, money and resources to develop new titles rather than splashing out on old titles that are only going to continue to be free and substandard anyway. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Pitermach" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed this is seriusly wrong. this is, if I'm not mistaking, a 3rd x-sight, or more like, x-depressing, whipeout. fail. - Original Message - __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Damien, As a developer myself, I can completely feel your pain. Most people simply don't understand the amount of time and effort it takes to maintain old, bugridden code, especially for release products. I've been asked many times if I could just 'create an old copy of Alter Aeon without new feature X', and the answer is that sure, I could. But if I have to choose between keeping a bunch of old servers running and adding new features to the main server, the main server is going to win out every time. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon http://www.alteraeon.com On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Pitermach, > I'm sorry you feel inclined to believe us a failure. Obviously I cannot > change your views on the subject. However if you feel the games are worth > the maintenance, contact me offlist and I can certainly make arrangements > with you so that you may maintain the games yourself, which I must > emphasise, includes fixing bugs, reading amateur code, and optionally > replacing the sounds and cleaning up the documentation to your liking. > As far as I am concerned, I feel it is more worth the time, energy, money > and resources to develop new titles rather than splashing out on old titles > that are only going to continue to be free and substandard anyway. > Regards, > Damien. > > > - Original Message - From: "Pitermach" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 4:25 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed > > >> this is seriusly wrong. this is, if I'm not mistaking, a 3rd x-sight, or >> more like, x-depressing, whipeout. fail. >> - Original Message - >> __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature database 5266 (20100709) __ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi Pitermach, I'm sorry you feel inclined to believe us a failure. Obviously I cannot change your views on the subject. However if you feel the games are worth the maintenance, contact me offlist and I can certainly make arrangements with you so that you may maintain the games yourself, which I must emphasise, includes fixing bugs, reading amateur code, and optionally replacing the sounds and cleaning up the documentation to your liking. As far as I am concerned, I feel it is more worth the time, energy, money and resources to develop new titles rather than splashing out on old titles that are only going to continue to be free and substandard anyway. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Pitermach" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed this is seriusly wrong. this is, if I'm not mistaking, a 3rd x-sight, or more like, x-depressing, whipeout. fail. - Original Message - __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
this is seriusly wrong. this is, if I'm not mistaking, a 3rd x-sight, or more like, x-depressing, whipeout. fail. - Original Message - __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
well as long as they stay up for those to enjoy I don't mind. though I aggree with you I don't even play acefire these days. At 11:12 p.m. 14/04/2011, you wrote: Hi all, Due to our aim in bringing you quality audiogames and software, we have found it necessary to discontinue support for old titles. Games such as Self Destruct, Acefire, Danger City and the Savage Gamut are no longer being maintained or supported, while Giftanum will shortly be offered for download as an open source educational project. This has been done for several reasons, all of which we have attempted to outline below: Firstly, all the older titles were programmed in a now depricated platform, and are getting more and more unplayable as later versions of Windows are released into the market. They are only just playable on Windows Vista and Windows 7, and even that requires several dependencies to be installed. Secondly, these were originally games written by third party developers who have different methods of programming. As a consequence it is much harder to read and understand the way the program is written, so maintaining them in their current state is impractical. Thirdly, since most of these titles are in a state of completion, maintenance is all that is required, especially with some of the games that contain many critical bugs. As maintaining them is impractical and the development platform is now itself discontinued, the only available option to us is rewriting them from scratch. Given the amount of work it would take and the fact that they were considered free beforehand, it isn't worth the effort that would be involved.. We find it best to work purely on our own titles so that we can concentrate fully on the quality of our work and the finality of our products. I hope this explanation has helped you to understand and support our decision, and are sorry for any inconveniences caused. Although we have discontinued support and maintenance of these titles, X-Sight Interactive still retains the copyright to these titles until such time as further arrangements can be made. With that in mind I ask that these titles are not hosted or redistributed to any third party in any way in their current state. We thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this matter. Regards, Damien Pendleton. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Old Titles Removed
Hi all, Due to our aim in bringing you quality audiogames and software, we have found it necessary to discontinue support for old titles. Games such as Self Destruct, Acefire, Danger City and the Savage Gamut are no longer being maintained or supported, while Giftanum will shortly be offered for download as an open source educational project. This has been done for several reasons, all of which we have attempted to outline below: Firstly, all the older titles were programmed in a now depricated platform, and are getting more and more unplayable as later versions of Windows are released into the market. They are only just playable on Windows Vista and Windows 7, and even that requires several dependencies to be installed. Secondly, these were originally games written by third party developers who have different methods of programming. As a consequence it is much harder to read and understand the way the program is written, so maintaining them in their current state is impractical. Thirdly, since most of these titles are in a state of completion, maintenance is all that is required, especially with some of the games that contain many critical bugs. As maintaining them is impractical and the development platform is now itself discontinued, the only available option to us is rewriting them from scratch. Given the amount of work it would take and the fact that they were considered free beforehand, it isn't worth the effort that would be involved.. We find it best to work purely on our own titles so that we can concentrate fully on the quality of our work and the finality of our products. I hope this explanation has helped you to understand and support our decision, and are sorry for any inconveniences caused. Although we have discontinued support and maintenance of these titles, X-Sight Interactive still retains the copyright to these titles until such time as further arrangements can be made. With that in mind I ask that these titles are not hosted or redistributed to any third party in any way in their current state. We thank you for your cooperation and understanding in this matter. Regards, Damien Pendleton. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.