Re: New Deadline Submission Tool

[Andy Nicholas]

FYI, I’ve updated the master branch of siLib to fix that issue with having 
multiple si_Turbulise VOPs.

A

> On 30 Nov 2017, at 00:43, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey, no problem at all.
> 
> Yes, the issue with having two Stable Noise nodes is something that was 
> brought to my attention at the beginning of this week. I know what the 
> problem is, and I’m halfway through sorting it out. Hopefully by the end of 
> the week I should have a fix for you.
> 
> Adding Redshift support for the Deadline submitter is not something I can do 
> at the moment unfortunately, as I don’t have access to either Deadline or 
> Redshift. However, for someone who’s a reasonably experienced programmer with 
> python, it's not too hard. You just have to follow the Mantra (or IFD) ROP as 
> a guideline.
> 
> I’ve already been contacted by someone who wanted to give writing the 
> implementation for the Redshift ROP a go. I don’t know how far he got. I’ll 
> drop him an email to see if he got it working. 
> 
> Otherwise if anyone else wants to give it a go, just let me know as I’m happy 
> to offer guidance. I’ve already written some basic instructions on how to do 
> it.
> 
> Contact me off list if you (or anyone else) wants more information on this.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andy
> 
> 
>> On 28 Nov 2017, at 03:27, Nono <nnois...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:nnois...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Andy,
>> I just want to thank you for your two Houdini free tool.
>> The Stable Noise became the best choice for noises and the Deadline tools 
>> rocks !
>> The only problems I came up with are we can't have two stable noise in a 
>> VOP, and The deadline tools need a Redshift ROP support ;-).
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> On 10 July 2017 at 14:16, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
>> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
>> No probs Simon! Let me know how you get on.
>> 
>> Hope you guys aren’t suffering too much in the heat!
>> A
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10 Jul 2017, at 13:04, Simon Reeves <si...@simonreeves.com 
>>> <mailto:si...@simonreeves.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks Andy! 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 at 12:59 Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
>>> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> Just cross posting this here in case it’s of interest and you’re not signed 
>>> up to the Houdini mailing list yet. I’ve released a new open source tool 
>>> for Houdini to make job submissions to Deadline a bit easier.
>>> 
>>> More info here: 
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.andynicholas.com_-3Fp-3D1877=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=SpqXcse3tsc1S3boX8-QYCA9qJzviFrUgu_PIbs0lkU=8qpI1W8fQOT36jRLj98HapZDj4lCmNSPPrzaO2mBXoQ=
>>>  
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.andynicholas.com_-3Fp-3D1877=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=YiA_lbWIBuw2CY3jm6tirTdt13cC0Z0G5oWISdmepmY=eowoMI8DSMFIES-oiCTSoU5aROHZ-h5-Obt7qfY3zvM=>
>>>  
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.andynicholas.com_-3Fp-3D1877=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=SpqXcse3tsc1S3boX8-QYCA9qJzviFrUgu_PIbs0lkU=8qpI1W8fQOT36jRLj98HapZDj4lCmNSPPrzaO2mBXoQ=
>>>  
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.andynicholas.com_-3Fp-3D1877=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=YiA_lbWIBuw2CY3jm6tirTdt13cC0Z0G5oWISdmepmY=eowoMI8DSMFIES-oiCTSoU5aROHZ-h5-Obt7qfY3zvM=>>
>>> 
>>> Let me know if you find it useful or have any feedback.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andy
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>>> <mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the 
>>> subject, and reply to confirm.
>>> -- 
>>> Simon Reeves
>>> London, UK
>>> si...@simonreeves.com <mailto:si...@simonreeves.com>
>>> www.simonreeves.com 
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.simonreeves.com_=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=YiA_lbWIBuw2CY3jm6tirTdt13cC0Z0G5oWISdmepmY=zG9DqFan_RX47OFzLYbbkVtnE13uZixOAjrxDXUHtP0=>
>>> www.analogstudio.co.uk 
>>> <https://urldefense.proo

Re: New Deadline Submission Tool

[Andy Nicholas]

Hey, no problem at all.

Yes, the issue with having two Stable Noise nodes is something that was brought 
to my attention at the beginning of this week. I know what the problem is, and 
I’m halfway through sorting it out. Hopefully by the end of the week I should 
have a fix for you.

Adding Redshift support for the Deadline submitter is not something I can do at 
the moment unfortunately, as I don’t have access to either Deadline or 
Redshift. However, for someone who’s a reasonably experienced programmer with 
python, it's not too hard. You just have to follow the Mantra (or IFD) ROP as a 
guideline.

I’ve already been contacted by someone who wanted to give writing the 
implementation for the Redshift ROP a go. I don’t know how far he got. I’ll 
drop him an email to see if he got it working. 

Otherwise if anyone else wants to give it a go, just let me know as I’m happy 
to offer guidance. I’ve already written some basic instructions on how to do it.

Contact me off list if you (or anyone else) wants more information on this.

Cheers,
Andy


> On 28 Nov 2017, at 03:27, Nono <nnois...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Andy,
> I just want to thank you for your two Houdini free tool.
> The Stable Noise became the best choice for noises and the Deadline tools 
> rocks !
> The only problems I came up with are we can't have two stable noise in a VOP, 
> and The deadline tools need a Redshift ROP support ;-).
> 
> Cheers
> 
> On 10 July 2017 at 14:16, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
> No probs Simon! Let me know how you get on.
> 
> Hope you guys aren’t suffering too much in the heat!
> A
> 
> 
>> On 10 Jul 2017, at 13:04, Simon Reeves <si...@simonreeves.com 
>> <mailto:si...@simonreeves.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Andy! 
>> 
>> On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 at 12:59 Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
>> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Just cross posting this here in case it’s of interest and you’re not signed 
>> up to the Houdini mailing list yet. I’ve released a new open source tool for 
>> Houdini to make job submissions to Deadline a bit easier.
>> 
>> More info here: 
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.andynicholas.com_-3Fp-3D1877=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=NOIi0_w4fzz9EuXPhBEwCFGeGC5nF99Ke9vhE97ukuc=f26lWFL6EOrqVrm-03tLjM1FpTVxowU691TufLTiVOo=
>>  
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.andynicholas.com_-3Fp-3D1877=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=YiA_lbWIBuw2CY3jm6tirTdt13cC0Z0G5oWISdmepmY=eowoMI8DSMFIES-oiCTSoU5aROHZ-h5-Obt7qfY3zvM=>
>>  
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.andynicholas.com_-3Fp-3D1877=DwIFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=NOIi0_w4fzz9EuXPhBEwCFGeGC5nF99Ke9vhE97ukuc=f26lWFL6EOrqVrm-03tLjM1FpTVxowU691TufLTiVOo=
>>  
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.andynicholas.com_-3Fp-3D1877=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=YiA_lbWIBuw2CY3jm6tirTdt13cC0Z0G5oWISdmepmY=eowoMI8DSMFIES-oiCTSoU5aROHZ-h5-Obt7qfY3zvM=>>
>> 
>> Let me know if you find it useful or have any feedback.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Andy
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
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>> <mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the 
>> subject, and reply to confirm.
>> -- 
>> Simon Reeves
>> London, UK
>> si...@simonreeves.com <mailto:si...@simonreeves.com>
>> www.simonreeves.com 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.simonreeves.com_=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=YiA_lbWIBuw2CY3jm6tirTdt13cC0Z0G5oWISdmepmY=zG9DqFan_RX47OFzLYbbkVtnE13uZixOAjrxDXUHtP0=>
>> www.analogstudio.co.uk 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.analogstudio.co.uk_=DwMFaQ=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA=YiA_lbWIBuw2CY3jm6tirTdt13cC0Z0G5oWISdmepmY=aOo2bAPwxx-Hy7eKZDX0BgIOSwrfhaxpuqIL4AGzcyM=>--
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> 
> 
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Re: What were they thinking....

[Andy Nicholas]

> I still have yet to be presented a viable case where deleting all the code 
> in the script editor upon execute is a beneficial feature.


Haha! Too true :) Nuke does the same. Annoying as hell.

I do seem to remember hearing that it was a specific design decision to do it 
that way. Something to do with emulating some sort of console input. 

Pfft. Join the 21st century I say ;)


> On 30 Aug 2017, at 09:44, Matt Lind  wrote:
> 
> I've bumped into a few myself:
> 
> G - repeats last command.  Especially annoying if you accidentally press it 
> after importing a file as you cannot undo an import.
> 
> A - resets the UI to animation layout, including rearranging all your 
> windows.  Considering "A" is used heavily for 'frame all' in the viewports, 
> whoever thought this was a good idea should be shot.  If you don't pay 
> attention to your mouse cursor location, your user experience will be 
> upendednot that you could ever measure the difference in productivity.
> 
> I still have yet to be presented a viable case where deleting all the code 
> in the script editor upon execute is a beneficial feature.
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 09:22:16 + (UTC)
> From: Anto Matkovic 
> Subject: Re: What were they thinking
> To: "Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
> 
> I've also experienced 'ghost' hotkeys in some other cases. Here it happens 
> with certain modeling operators, let's say when M or R is pressed after 
> extruding, Maya tries to switch the worskpace to modeling or rigging, 
> something like that - for now I'm not completely sure about "procedure'', 
> which by the way leads to dismantled interface, not to certain workspace 
> suddenly requested by Maya (not me...). ?While I'm pretty sure I do not have 
> any hotkey related to workspaces. Thanks for posting this, at least I know 
> I'm not alone :).
> Regarding constraints, IK and 'famous'' pairBlend node, somehow got 
> everything smoother by avoiding Maya constraints, IK and especially 
> pairBlend thing as much as possible, trying to replace them as much by 
> simple nodal setups, something like bunch of ''remap value'' nodes, driven 
> by position of locator, or even a part of 2 bone IK chain driven only by 
> node setup (still using orient constrain for global orientation of IK 
> chain) - but, yeah, this really is not a solution for quick setups.The way 
> how pairBlend is implemented, by deleting the node, once there is no 
> animated blend, makes it completely and definitively unusable for quick 
> setups.Also, only no scripted way to safely copy - paste a part of rig, 
> seems to be saving the copy of scene, deleting everything else, checking out 
> are all necessary nodes still in place (as deleting can take unwanted parts 
> of networks) - and finally, copying back into original scene. So, yeah, yet 
> another one, unusable for quick work.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: EdgeRing ALG for n-gons

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep, that's a fair point :)

> On 31 Jul 2017, at 10:00, Brent McPherson <brent.mcpher...@autodesk.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Andy,
>  
> In Andrews' code just calling the Softimage mesh methods once and saving that 
> result for reuse would probably eliminate his performance issues.
>  
> What you are suggesting is the next level when you find that the data stored 
> in the Softimage containers is not in a format where it can be accessed 
> quickly. Great advice but there are easier things to fix in Andrew's code 
> first IMO.
>  
> Cheers.
> --
> Brent
>  
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
> Sent: 29 July 2017 20:26
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> Subject: Re: EdgeRing ALG for n-gons
>  
> Hi Andrew,
> I believe what Brent is suggesting is to request the data from Softimage 
> once, cache it in whatever way makes the most sense for your application, and 
> then run your algorithms on that. When I wrote the “Taut” plugin for 
> Softimage, I built all the adjacency information and stored it using STL 
> containers (maps, etc.). It meant that I could optimise the data structures 
> to Taut's functionality and it generally ran pretty fast.
>  
> Andy
>  
>  
> On 29 Jul 2017, at 07:43, Andrew Prostrelov <prostre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  
> Can you tell a bit more about optimisation and efficient calls pls. 
> I have lots of question about XSI objects and classes best practices.
> If i understand your suggestion right i should alwayse preffer XSI reference 
> containers (EdgeRefArray etc) to value containers like CLongArray, 
> CValueArray etc. Or not ?
> I also often use curMesh.GetEdges().GetItem() aproach to get one specific 
> component instance with known index. 
> I suppose this way also is slow. What should i do in this situation ?
> 
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Re: EdgeRing ALG for n-gons

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Andrew,
I believe what Brent is suggesting is to request the data from Softimage once, 
cache it in whatever way makes the most sense for your application, and then 
run your algorithms on that. When I wrote the “Taut” plugin for Softimage, I 
built all the adjacency information and stored it using STL containers (maps, 
etc.). It meant that I could optimise the data structures to Taut's 
functionality and it generally ran pretty fast.

Andy


> On 29 Jul 2017, at 07:43, Andrew Prostrelov  wrote:
> 
> Can you tell a bit more about optimisation and efficient calls pls. 
> I have lots of question about XSI objects and classes best practices.
> If i understand your suggestion right i should alwayse preffer XSI reference 
> containers (EdgeRefArray etc) to value containers like CLongArray, 
> CValueArray etc. Or not ?
> I also often use curMesh.GetEdges().GetItem() aproach to get one specific 
> component instance with known index. 
> I suppose this way also is slow. What should i do in this situation ?
> 
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Re: New Deadline Submission Tool

[Andy Nicholas]

No probs Simon! Let me know how you get on.

Hope you guys aren’t suffering too much in the heat!
A


> On 10 Jul 2017, at 13:04, Simon Reeves <si...@simonreeves.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Andy! 
> 
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 at 12:59 Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Just cross posting this here in case it’s of interest and you’re not signed 
> up to the Houdini mailing list yet. I’ve released a new open source tool for 
> Houdini to make job submissions to Deadline a bit easier.
> 
> More info here: http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1877 
> <http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1877> <http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1877 
> <http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1877>>
> 
> Let me know if you find it useful or have any feedback.
> 
> Cheers,
> Andy
> --
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> <mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the 
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> -- 
> Simon Reeves
> London, UK
> si...@simonreeves.com <mailto:si...@simonreeves.com>
> www.simonreeves.com <http://www.simonreeves.com/>
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New Deadline Submission Tool

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi all,
Just cross posting this here in case it’s of interest and you’re not signed up 
to the Houdini mailing list yet. I’ve released a new open source tool for 
Houdini to make job submissions to Deadline a bit easier.

More info here: http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1877 
 >

Let me know if you find it useful or have any feedback.

Cheers,
Andy--
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Re: Houdini Basics....

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Cris,
You can save yourself a step and just directly use a POP Wrangle DOP or 
Geometry Wrangle DOP. No need for the SOP solver.

Cheers,
Andy

> On 1 Jun 2017, at 22:57, Cristobal Infante  wrote:
> 
> You can do this easily with a sop solver in dops.
> 
> - Turn create Age Particles, so we can get an attrib age. For 25 frames for 
> example, the age will be 1.
> - Add a sop solver that goes in the marge with the source
> - Inside the sop sovler: dop geometry -> attr wrangle and add the following 
> code:
> 
> if(@age>1){
> @v = (0,0,0);
> }
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Best,
> Cristobal
> 
> 
> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 at 20:02, Thomas Volkmann  > wrote:
>  For some strange reason I can't post to the houdini mailing list, so it's 
> you guys once more
>  
> A simplified use case of what I want to do:
> Take the Drip Particle Fluid shelf tool, and set the velocity to zero on all 
> particles that get emittet after frame 25 so that they stay at the same place 
> no matter what.
>  
> I would like to set a birthframe attribute and set v to 0 if it is greater 
> than 25sounds so simple. 
>  
> Of course I did some googling and looked at promising example scenes, but 
> somehow I just don't get it to work.
> I spare you and me the details of what and how I tried, but what I noticed 
> and what added to the confusion amongst other things is that 
> Flip emitters don't have a "Just born Group" and that Visualization Nodes are 
> not available in certain places. 
>  
> Any hints are welcome!
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Re: Houdini Basics....

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep, I think there’s a sneaky bug in there somewhere. I’ve had it when I’ve got 
all my objects hidden it still evaluates the DOP network. My suspicion was that 
it might be related to the bug where Houdini shows an object in the viewport 
you can’t get rid of. You could try killing the Scene viewport tab and opening 
a new one.


> On 18 May 2017, at 16:22, Simon Reeves  wrote:
> 
> Setting the DOP in question to bypass doesn't work for me.  <-- I think this 
> should work? 
> 
> On Thu, 18 May 2017 at 12:52 Thomas Volkmann  > wrote:
> I'll be damned!!
>  
> But knowing how to do it now wins over the embarrasment :)
>  
> Thanks a ton!
>  
>> "Andy Chlupka (Goehler)" > > hat am 18. Mai 2017 um 13:47 
>> geschrieben:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Thomas,
>>  
>> see that little red brain at the bottom right corner? Give it a try :D
>>  
>> Andy
>> 
>>> On 18.05.2017, at 13:45, Thomas Volkmann >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Even at the risk of annoying you guys:
>>>  
>>> How do I stop a DOP-network from cooking while scrubbing the timeline?  In 
>>> Softimage I just hide the pointcloud and I am good to go.
>>> Setting the DOP in question to bypass doesn't work for me. 
>>> User error I guess... but please shed some light!
>>>  
>>> Thanks and cheers,
>>> Thomas
> 
> 
>  
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>  
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Re: shameful houdini question

[Andy Nicholas]

Haha. Neither am I, I'd just be after some robust critical feedback :)

On 27/04/2017 11:34, Christopher Crouzet wrote:

Sure thing but be warned that I'm far from being a noise expert! :)


On 27 April 2017 at 17:21, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Yes, exactly, I found the same. I'm quite relieved your experience
mirrors mine as otherwise I've just been wasting a lot of my time! :)

Would love you to beta test when it's ready (if you're interested).
A


On 27/04/2017 11:17, Christopher Crouzet wrote:

I've just tried what you said and in fact the unified noise
doesn't even seem to use the full [0, 1] range as one would
expect from reading the doc. At least not in H13. Or maybe I did
something wrong. If this turns out to be true, it'd kill the
primary purpose of the node to bring coherency between the
different noise types. Not great for lookdev as you said.

This bring back blurry memories where I digged into the unified
noise a couple of years ago and ended up coding my own, maybe
because of this exact reason. But then I eventually lost the
digital asset that I had built and ended up using the default
noises instead :)


On 27 April 2017 at 16:42, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


The `Unified Noise VOP`, which is a fairly useful node that
outputs all the noise values in the [0, 1] range, takes
pretty much all of its logic from the `pyro_noise.h` include
file. Which means that you can easily have access to the
same functionalities in VEX, like so:

#include 
v@perlin = vnwrap_perlin3(v@P, 0, 0);
f@pflow = fnwrap_pflow1(v@P, {1, 2, 3}, 0);



Aah, thanks for that Chris. Didn't realise you could access
the noise functions like that. Good to know :)


Also, it's interesting to see how they managed to unify the
noise values in `pyro_noise.h`: they basically ran a lot of
samples and picked the min/max values of each noise to
approximate their range. Statistics for the win! :)


Yep, that's what I've been doing. I'm concentrating on FBM
modes of evaluating the basic noise functions (noise(),
xnoise(), snoise(), onoise(), anoise) as that's what I tend
to use the most. Unified Noise is okay, but I still find
problems with shifting offsets in the noise.

For example, make a grid with 150 divisions, create a Unified
Noise in a Point VOP and set it to use Signature:->"3D Input,
3D noise", Noise Type->"Perlin", Fractal Type "Standard
(fBm)" add the vector output to the point position and then
try playing around with the Max Octaves, Lacunarity, and
Roughness. You'll see that you get a global uniform "DC"
offset along the each axis. That's not cool! If I'm using
that as a noise force, then it has just pushed all my
particles in the (1,1,1) direction. You'll also find that
switching between noise types noticably changes the amplitude
range. Again, not great if I'm doing lookdev and I just want
to try a different noise type without changing the general
magnitude force amount.

In addition to sampling the noise values, I'm doing some
curve fitting to that data in Python's scipy which smooths
out some of the statistical glitches with the sampling. It's
giving some good results that don't exhibit the DC offset
that I mentioned above. All this should let me create a
replacement for the Anti-Aliased Noise VOP. I'm not dealing
with the anti-aliasing aspect yet though, so it won't be as
good for shaders, but the offset isn't quite so important in
that context as it is for using it for forces.

Still need to do some testing and then package them up into
VOPs, but once they're ready I'll release them in siLib for
everyone to try.

A



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Re: shameful houdini question

[Andy Nicholas]

Yes, exactly, I found the same. I'm quite relieved your experience 
mirrors mine as otherwise I've just been wasting a lot of my time! :)


Would love you to beta test when it's ready (if you're interested).
A

On 27/04/2017 11:17, Christopher Crouzet wrote:
I've just tried what you said and in fact the unified noise doesn't 
even seem to use the full [0, 1] range as one would expect from 
reading the doc. At least not in H13. Or maybe I did something wrong. 
If this turns out to be true, it'd kill the primary purpose of the 
node to bring coherency between the different noise types. Not great 
for lookdev as you said.


This bring back blurry memories where I digged into the unified noise 
a couple of years ago and ended up coding my own, maybe because of 
this exact reason. But then I eventually lost the digital asset that I 
had built and ended up using the default noises instead :)



On 27 April 2017 at 16:42, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:



The `Unified Noise VOP`, which is a fairly useful node that
outputs all the noise values in the [0, 1] range, takes pretty
much all of its logic from the `pyro_noise.h` include file. Which
means that you can easily have access to the same functionalities
in VEX, like so:

#include 
v@perlin = vnwrap_perlin3(v@P, 0, 0);
f@pflow = fnwrap_pflow1(v@P, {1, 2, 3}, 0);



Aah, thanks for that Chris. Didn't realise you could access the
noise functions like that. Good to know :)


Also, it's interesting to see how they managed to unify the noise
values in `pyro_noise.h`: they basically ran a lot of samples and
picked the min/max values of each noise to approximate their
range. Statistics for the win! :)


Yep, that's what I've been doing. I'm concentrating on FBM modes
of evaluating the basic noise functions (noise(), xnoise(),
snoise(), onoise(), anoise) as that's what I tend to use the most.
Unified Noise is okay, but I still find problems with shifting
offsets in the noise.

For example, make a grid with 150 divisions, create a Unified
Noise in a Point VOP and set it to use Signature:->"3D Input, 3D
noise", Noise Type->"Perlin", Fractal Type "Standard (fBm)" add
the vector output to the point position and then try playing
around with the Max Octaves, Lacunarity, and Roughness. You'll see
that you get a global uniform "DC" offset along the each axis.
That's not cool! If I'm using that as a noise force, then it has
just pushed all my particles in the (1,1,1) direction. You'll also
find that switching between noise types noticably changes the
amplitude range. Again, not great if I'm doing lookdev and I just
want to try a different noise type without changing the general
magnitude force amount.

In addition to sampling the noise values, I'm doing some curve
fitting to that data in Python's scipy which smooths out some of
the statistical glitches with the sampling. It's giving some good
results that don't exhibit the DC offset that I mentioned above.
All this should let me create a replacement for the Anti-Aliased
Noise VOP. I'm not dealing with the anti-aliasing aspect yet
though, so it won't be as good for shaders, but the offset isn't
quite so important in that context as it is for using it for forces.

Still need to do some testing and then package them up into VOPs,
but once they're ready I'll release them in siLib for everyone to try.

A



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Re: shameful houdini question

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep, Unified Noise is definitely very slow when tweaking the UI 
parameters. Haven't done any profiling yet though to see if that's due 
to recompiling issues vs actual performance of evaluation.


On 27/04/2017 10:49, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

I found the Unified noise slower than the other noises. No ?

2017-04-27 11:42 GMT+02:00 Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>>:



The `Unified Noise VOP`, which is a fairly useful node that
outputs all the noise values in the [0, 1] range, takes pretty
much all of its logic from the `pyro_noise.h` include file. Which
means that you can easily have access to the same functionalities
in VEX, like so:

#include 
v@perlin = vnwrap_perlin3(v@P, 0, 0);
f@pflow = fnwrap_pflow1(v@P, {1, 2, 3}, 0);



Aah, thanks for that Chris. Didn't realise you could access the
noise functions like that. Good to know :)


Also, it's interesting to see how they managed to unify the noise
values in `pyro_noise.h`: they basically ran a lot of samples and
picked the min/max values of each noise to approximate their
range. Statistics for the win! :)


Yep, that's what I've been doing. I'm concentrating on FBM modes
of evaluating the basic noise functions (noise(), xnoise(),
snoise(), onoise(), anoise) as that's what I tend to use the most.
Unified Noise is okay, but I still find problems with shifting
offsets in the noise.

For example, make a grid with 150 divisions, create a Unified
Noise in a Point VOP and set it to use Signature:->"3D Input, 3D
noise", Noise Type->"Perlin", Fractal Type "Standard (fBm)" add
the vector output to the point position and then try playing
around with the Max Octaves, Lacunarity, and Roughness. You'll see
that you get a global uniform "DC" offset along the each axis.
That's not cool! If I'm using that as a noise force, then it has
just pushed all my particles in the (1,1,1) direction. You'll also
find that switching between noise types noticably changes the
amplitude range. Again, not great if I'm doing lookdev and I just
want to try a different noise type without changing the general
magnitude force amount.

In addition to sampling the noise values, I'm doing some curve
fitting to that data in Python's scipy which smooths out some of
the statistical glitches with the sampling. It's giving some good
results that don't exhibit the DC offset that I mentioned above.
All this should let me create a replacement for the Anti-Aliased
Noise VOP. I'm not dealing with the anti-aliasing aspect yet
though, so it won't be as good for shaders, but the offset isn't
quite so important in that context as it is for using it for forces.

Still need to do some testing and then package them up into VOPs,
but once they're ready I'll release them in siLib for everyone to try.

A



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Re: shameful houdini question

[Andy Nicholas]

The `Unified Noise VOP`, which is a fairly useful node that outputs 
all the noise values in the [0, 1] range, takes pretty much all of its 
logic from the `pyro_noise.h` include file. Which means that you can 
easily have access to the same functionalities in VEX, like so:


#include 
v@perlin = vnwrap_perlin3(v@P, 0, 0);
f@pflow = fnwrap_pflow1(v@P, {1, 2, 3}, 0);



Aah, thanks for that Chris. Didn't realise you could access the noise 
functions like that. Good to know :)


Also, it's interesting to see how they managed to unify the noise 
values in `pyro_noise.h`: they basically ran a lot of samples and 
picked the min/max values of each noise to approximate their range. 
Statistics for the win! :)


Yep, that's what I've been doing. I'm concentrating on FBM modes of 
evaluating the basic noise functions (noise(), xnoise(), snoise(), 
onoise(), anoise) as that's what I tend to use the most. Unified Noise 
is okay, but I still find problems with shifting offsets in the noise.


For example, make a grid with 150 divisions, create a Unified Noise in a 
Point VOP and set it to use Signature:->"3D Input, 3D noise", Noise 
Type->"Perlin", Fractal Type "Standard (fBm)" add the vector output to 
the point position and then try playing around with the Max Octaves, 
Lacunarity, and Roughness. You'll see that you get a global uniform "DC" 
offset along the each axis. That's not cool! If I'm using that as a 
noise force, then it has just pushed all my particles in the (1,1,1) 
direction. You'll also find that switching between noise types noticably 
changes the amplitude range. Again, not great if I'm doing lookdev and I 
just want to try a different noise type without changing the general 
magnitude force amount.


In addition to sampling the noise values, I'm doing some curve fitting 
to that data in Python's scipy which smooths out some of the statistical 
glitches with the sampling. It's giving some good results that don't 
exhibit the DC offset that I mentioned above. All this should let me 
create a replacement for the Anti-Aliased Noise VOP. I'm not dealing 
with the anti-aliasing aspect yet though, so it won't be as good for 
shaders, but the offset isn't quite so important in that context as it 
is for using it for forces.


Still need to do some testing and then package them up into VOPs, but 
once they're ready I'll release them in siLib for everyone to try.


A


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Re: shameful houdini question

[Andy Nicholas]

VEX Wrangles nearly all of the time. Usually the only reason I go into VOPs is 
if a) I need to use something like the Anti-Aliased Noise VOP (which can’t be 
called as a function directly from VEX), or b) if I’m doing shaders. For some 
reason I find shaders much easier to deal with in VOPs. I suspect it’s partly 
because I just haven’t used them enough, plus testing/debugging VEX is 
generally a bit of a nightmare.

FYI, I’m working on a solution for making noise much easier to use in VEX and 
VOPs as part of the siLib initiative. I know it doesn’t exactly sound exciting, 
but from my experience working with existing noise functions in Houdini, I 
think a lot of folk will find it extremely useful. I’ll explain more when I 
finish it. Show, not tell :)


> On 26 Apr 2017, at 23:47, Steven Caron <car...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> OK, great... I can see how to customize it from that snippet.
> 
> Just to understand how the power users are using this. Are you using wrangle 
> nodes with vex snippets 100% of the time or are you using the VOP sub graph 
> for somethings?
> 
> Steven
> 
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
> If you have a look at the docs for pcfilter, it gives you some VEX code 
> that’s the equivalent functionality. You can tweak to suit your needs.
> 
> Pasted in from the docs:
> 
> - - - - 
> 
> float pcfilter(int handle; string channel)
> {
> floatsum, w, d;
> floatvalue, result = 0;
> while (pciterate(handle))
> {
> pcimport(handle, "point.distance", d);
> pcimport(handle, channel, value);
> w = 1 - smooth(0, radius, d);
> sum += w;
> result += w * value;
> }
> result /= sum;
> return result;
> }
> 
> pcfilter takes the points that were opened by the point cloud and produces a 
> filtered value. The following equation shows how the individual points are 
> weighted.
> 
> w_i = 1-smooth(0, maxd*1.1, d_i);
> 
> maxd is the farthest point, and w_i is the weight for a given point at 
> distance (d_i). Points that are closer to the center will be weighted higher 
> with that formula, rather than it being an average.
> 
> 
>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 19:25, Steven Caron <car...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:car...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> So pcfilter has weighting built into it?
>> 
>> I guess I want to customize this weighting should I not use pcfilter? and 
>> use pcfind and loop over the particles?
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
>> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
>> Yep, I’m afraid I’m a complete VEX convert now. I never used to be!
>> 
>> Cris, don’t mind me posting stuff like that, I’m just doing it in case it’s 
>> useful to anyone who’s trying to get into VEX. Actually, when I was learning 
>> to do all the point cloud stuff, I found it useful to see the VEX when I was 
>> trying to understand how to hook up the pointcloud VOPs. I (still) don’t 
>> think it’s obvious how to do it, especially when you start thinking about if 
>> it’s necessary to use pcclose() and where that should be wired.
>> 
>> It’s one of the reasons I moved to VEX, things like “loops" and “if” 
>> statements are much easier to understand in VEX than VOPs.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 19:07, Steven Caron <car...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:car...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks guys! I didn't want to use VEX even though I might need to in the 
>>> long run.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
>>> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
>>> Yep, what Cris said. Here’s some VEX you can drop in a Point Wrangle if you 
>>> want to try that approach:
>>> 
>>> float radius = 1.0;
>>> int maxpts = 50;
>>> int handle = pcopen(0, "P", @P, radius, maxpts);
>>> @P = pcfilter(handle, "P");
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 18:37, Cristobal Infante <cgc...@gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:cgc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> pcopen > pcfilter (P) will give you the nearest positions.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 26 April 2017 at 18:27, Steven Caron <car...@gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:car...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> i hate to do it but i gotta ask this group because of our shared ICE 
>>>> knowledge...
>>>

Re: shameful houdini question

[Andy Nicholas]

If you have a look at the docs for pcfilter, it gives you some VEX code that’s 
the equivalent functionality. You can tweak to suit your needs.

Pasted in from the docs:

- - - - 

float pcfilter(int handle; string channel)
{
floatsum, w, d;
floatvalue, result = 0;
while (pciterate(handle))
{
pcimport(handle, "point.distance", d);
pcimport(handle, channel, value);
w = 1 - smooth(0, radius, d);
sum += w;
result += w * value;
}
result /= sum;
return result;
}

pcfilter takes the points that were opened by the point cloud and produces a 
filtered value. The following equation shows how the individual points are 
weighted.

w_i = 1-smooth(0, maxd*1.1, d_i);

maxd is the farthest point, and w_i is the weight for a given point at distance 
(d_i). Points that are closer to the center will be weighted higher with that 
formula, rather than it being an average.


> On 26 Apr 2017, at 19:25, Steven Caron <car...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> So pcfilter has weighting built into it?
> 
> I guess I want to customize this weighting should I not use pcfilter? and use 
> pcfind and loop over the particles?
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
> Yep, I’m afraid I’m a complete VEX convert now. I never used to be!
> 
> Cris, don’t mind me posting stuff like that, I’m just doing it in case it’s 
> useful to anyone who’s trying to get into VEX. Actually, when I was learning 
> to do all the point cloud stuff, I found it useful to see the VEX when I was 
> trying to understand how to hook up the pointcloud VOPs. I (still) don’t 
> think it’s obvious how to do it, especially when you start thinking about if 
> it’s necessary to use pcclose() and where that should be wired.
> 
> It’s one of the reasons I moved to VEX, things like “loops" and “if” 
> statements are much easier to understand in VEX than VOPs.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 19:07, Steven Caron <car...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:car...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks guys! I didn't want to use VEX even though I might need to in the 
>> long run.
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
>> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
>> Yep, what Cris said. Here’s some VEX you can drop in a Point Wrangle if you 
>> want to try that approach:
>> 
>> float radius = 1.0;
>> int maxpts = 50;
>> int handle = pcopen(0, "P", @P, radius, maxpts);
>> @P = pcfilter(handle, "P");
>> 
>> 
>>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 18:37, Cristobal Infante <cgc...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:cgc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> pcopen > pcfilter (P) will give you the nearest positions.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 26 April 2017 at 18:27, Steven Caron <car...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:car...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> i hate to do it but i gotta ask this group because of our shared ICE 
>>> knowledge...
>>> 
>>> what is the proper way to get closest points and average their position and 
>>> update the point position?
>>> 
>>> pcfind gives me an integer array, but how do i look up those indices and 
>>> get their point position?
>>> 
>>> pcopen, then pcimport, do work, then pcexport seems like the right thing to 
>>> do, should i just ignore pcfind?
>>> 
>>> thanks
>>> steven
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: shameful houdini question

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep, I’m afraid I’m a complete VEX convert now. I never used to be!

Cris, don’t mind me posting stuff like that, I’m just doing it in case it’s 
useful to anyone who’s trying to get into VEX. Actually, when I was learning to 
do all the point cloud stuff, I found it useful to see the VEX when I was 
trying to understand how to hook up the pointcloud VOPs. I (still) don’t think 
it’s obvious how to do it, especially when you start thinking about if it’s 
necessary to use pcclose() and where that should be wired.

It’s one of the reasons I moved to VEX, things like “loops" and “if” statements 
are much easier to understand in VEX than VOPs.



> On 26 Apr 2017, at 19:07, Steven Caron <car...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks guys! I didn't want to use VEX even though I might need to in the long 
> run.
> 
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
> Yep, what Cris said. Here’s some VEX you can drop in a Point Wrangle if you 
> want to try that approach:
> 
> float radius = 1.0;
> int maxpts = 50;
> int handle = pcopen(0, "P", @P, radius, maxpts);
> @P = pcfilter(handle, "P");
> 
> 
>> On 26 Apr 2017, at 18:37, Cristobal Infante <cgc...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:cgc...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> pcopen > pcfilter (P) will give you the nearest positions.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 26 April 2017 at 18:27, Steven Caron <car...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:car...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> i hate to do it but i gotta ask this group because of our shared ICE 
>> knowledge...
>> 
>> what is the proper way to get closest points and average their position and 
>> update the point position?
>> 
>> pcfind gives me an integer array, but how do i look up those indices and get 
>> their point position?
>> 
>> pcopen, then pcimport, do work, then pcexport seems like the right thing to 
>> do, should i just ignore pcfind?
>> 
>> thanks
>> steven
>> 
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>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>> <mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the 
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Re: shameful houdini question

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep, what Cris said. Here’s some VEX you can drop in a Point Wrangle if you 
want to try that approach:

float radius = 1.0;
int maxpts = 50;
int handle = pcopen(0, "P", @P, radius, maxpts);
@P = pcfilter(handle, "P");


> On 26 Apr 2017, at 18:37, Cristobal Infante  wrote:
> 
> pcopen > pcfilter (P) will give you the nearest positions.
> 
> 
> 
> On 26 April 2017 at 18:27, Steven Caron  > wrote:
> i hate to do it but i gotta ask this group because of our shared ICE 
> knowledge...
> 
> what is the proper way to get closest points and average their position and 
> update the point position?
> 
> pcfind gives me an integer array, but how do i look up those indices and get 
> their point position?
> 
> pcopen, then pcimport, do work, then pcexport seems like the right thing to 
> do, should i just ignore pcfind?
> 
> thanks
> steven
> 
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Re: Anybody finding the Houdini example files I've posted useful?

[Andy Nicholas]

Definitely useful. Thanks Jonathan. Not had a chance to look through the 
VDB examples, but they sound good; VDBs are so powerful.

I find particularly with Houdini there's alway something new to learn or 
improve on. It never bloody stops! ;)


On 12/04/2017 16:39, Jonathan Moore wrote:
> I’ve noticed on both occasions that they’ve received around 100 downloads but 
> having had no feedback I’m unsure as to whether I’m simply spamming the XSI 
> list or whether they have any value to those of you that have made the move 
> over to Houdini (or are still considering Houdini as a future option.
>
> I obviously don’t want to spam the list so it would be good to know if 
> anybody finds the Houdini ‘hint’s & tips’ useful.
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Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

Duh. Got the order of the 3 points wrong there, but I’m sure you figured that 
out ;)

> On 7 Apr 2017, at 20:02, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:
> 
>>> So now we have 'compounds' with custom port names, now how/why are we not 
>>> seeing dozens of those everywhere?
> 
> 
>>> And in you opinion, what could be preventing that, or what could be 
>>> streamlined to promote that.
> 
> 
> TLDR; Sharing HDA’s properly in a way that doesn’t cause screw ups is hard, 
> and most people are scared to start trying.
> 
> In more detail:
> 
> Basically there are three barriers of entry:
>   1) The process of making an HDA is a fairly technical and involved 
> process if you want to do it right.
>   2) It also requires a level of understanding as to what you’re doing 
> with versioning and operator naming.
>   3) If you want to have ease of re-use of HDAs, then you need to store 
> them on disk rather than embedding them purely within a scene. That means 
> that you really need to have a well organised and tightly managed 
> environment. 
> 
> 
> Okay, so looking at Barrier 1, there are basically two ways to name an HDA:
>   Option 1) Call it something like “my_vop_node” and give it a version 
> number in the Type Properties: Version parameter. There can only ever be ONE 
> version present in your scene. But believe it or not, the way Houdini decides 
> which version to use by default, is to pick the version with the latest 
> modified date on disk, **regardless of the version number you entered**! 
> Yeah, I was quite taken aback by that, but that’s what it does. So in my 
> book, that’s really not ideal. In a complex pipeline, there are just too many 
> ways a file may have it’s modified date changed at any time. Imagine if that 
> happens halfway through your render. No thanks!
>   Option 2) Call it “com.silib::my_vop_node::1.0.0” which is the more 
> recent "namespacing" format. This is much better, as now Houdini at least 
> respects the version number in the name properly (it now ignores the one in 
> the Type Properties: Version parameter). It also means that Houdini allows 
> you to have multiple versions of the same node in your scene, yet it still 
> sees them all as having the same type name “my_vop_node”. The namespacing 
> helps avoid name clashes with HDAs that are built-in or in other libraries. 
> All very handy. 
> 
> So number 2 is obviously the way to go, but I always have to look the details 
> up with how it handles versioning.
> 
> 
> For Barrier 2: 
> Let’s say you’ve written a SOP HDA to process some geometry in some way. 
> There are potentially a lot of things you need to handle to make it feel like 
> a proper Houdini node, some examples:
> * Does it tidy up the temporary attributes and groups you created in the 
> process? 
> * Does it preserve the original attributes and groups in an intuitive way 
> through to the result? 
> * Does it support Polygon Soups? 
> * What happens if I pass in NURBS, a volume, or packed primitives? Does it 
> ignore them, delete them, or error? 
> * Did you remember to write python code for doing the proper picking in the 
> UI for your “Group” parameter you created?
> * Have you hooked up the handles for the UI?
> * Don’t forget to write your help card! 
> 
> It’s nowhere near as quick and easy as in ICE.
> 
> For Barrier 3:
> Let’s say you make a new HDA. You might start with putting it in your local 
> user preferences. That’s fine for about 10 minutes until your mate Johnny 
> wants to use it. So you email him the HDA (eeek!) and he puts it in his user 
> preferences too. Great. So that all works fine until Johnny decides to change 
> your HDA and forgets to tell you. Now his scene behaves differently to yours! 
> Okay, so not a good strategy. 
> 
> Maybe we put it in a central location where everyone can access it? Much 
> better, right? Yep, as long as you remembered to write protect the file after 
> so someone doesn’t accidentally unlock it, make changes and save over the 
> top, thereby affecting everyone’s scene.
> 
> So that’s okay until someone wants to have a job specific version. Or even a 
> shot specific version. So this situation should be familiar, and it’s not 
> really that hard to manage an environment so that your paths are set up to 
> resolve the correct HDA based on which shot or job you’re on. Although in my 
> experience, many (if not most) VFX companies involved in commercials don’t 
> have this mechanism in place unless they have a film department too.
> 
> So let’s now say that all of this is done and our paths are set up to resolve 
> the correct HDA. We still have to have some sort of system to m

Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

 OCD about it… Personally, I would 
definitely recommend having all your HDAs local to the project/job. That way, 
all the versions you need, are kept with your project in case you ever need to 
resurrect it. It means that you don’t have to have all the versions that ever 
existed of your HDA stored centrally in your HSITE (Houdini’s Workgroup 
equivalent) on the server, as it would probably cause Houdini load times to 
slow down. For the most part, just manually copying and managing them by hand 
there will be fine. You just strike up an agreement that the only person to 
modify an HDA should be the author.

But that’s essentially why HDAs are a bit of a pain, and we didn’t even get 
into discussing having HDAs within HDAs! 

In most cases, where you just want to have the ability to reuse work, galleries 
and/or presets are for me the preferred option. They don’t have versioning 
issues, as once you’ve instantiated the node, that’s it. There’s no link kept 
with the original definition.

Cheers,
Andy




> On 7 Apr 2017, at 18:19, Jason S <jasonsta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>"So now we have 'compounds' with custom port names, now how/why are we not 
> seeing dozens of those everywhere?"
> 
> (also with multiple nesting levels)
> 
> 
> On 04/07/17 13:08, Jason S wrote:
>> Hi Andy,
>> just wanted to say thanks for the example showing possibilities for port 
>> names.
>> 
>> And I also noticed you can also name the regular subnet port names!
>> 
>> 
>>
>> 
>> Titles have to be short, but are more than enough to give good clues.
>> 
>> Also because I think I can recall reading that paramerters inside subnets 
>> involves extra compilation time? (dont know specifics)
>> 
>> 
>> So now we have 'compounds' with custom port names, now how/why are we not 
>> seeing dozens of those everywhere?
>> 
>> In the many setups I opened from either example files or from forum users 
>> posting methods,
>> I haven't come across a single Vop net that had one. (or maybe I just didnt 
>> notice them?)
>> 
>> (always Vops making everything from scratch with factory low level nodes, or 
>> wrangle code )
>> 
>> 
>> There are experienced users asking if nested HDAs are possible, and 
>> responses have pointed to certain factory nodes.
>> Is it common for Digital Assets to use Digital Assets? 
>> <https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/43014/>
>> 
>> While I was surprised it was even a question, and think it should be much 
>> more common.
>> 
>> 
>> Perhaps is it in regards to saving or retrieving custom nodes ? or is 
>> management difficult?
>> 
>> Could what is outlined in this thread be related?
>>My Digital Assets aren't loading with the project 
>> <https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/42113/>
>> 
>> I guess what I'm wondering is -- despite libraries and HDA's -- how/why 
>> isn't encapsulation and distribution more common-ground, 
>> especially after how long Houdini has been around, 
>> or why are we not everywhere seeing within scenes, processes made of 
>> processes made by everyone?
>> 
>> And in you opinion, what could be preventing that, or what could be 
>> streamlined to promote that.
>> 
>> Thanks!,
>> J
>> 
>> 
>> On 03/31/17 5:35, Andy Nicholas wrote:
>>> Hi Jason,
>>> You can explicitly define VOP inputs and outputs if you make a digital 
>>> asset, but you can also do it on a regular subnetwork. You just need to use 
>>> a Subnet Input VOP for the input connections, and then use a Null VOP to 
>>> name the output. You can use a Parameter VOP to expose inputs in the UI. 
>>> (You can also use it to define inputs by changing the drop down at the top 
>>> to "Subnet Connector", but I think it's clearer to use Subnet VOPs).
>>> 
>>> I've made an example for you implementing a push along normals operation 
>>> and attached it to this email. See the images below too:
>>> 
>>> How the Subnet looks without connections:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Inside the Push_VOP subnet:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

Yes, sounds good. I was thinking this afternoon that it'd be handy to have that 
for beginners jumping into Vex for the first time too. 

There’s a folder there for examples which would be the place to keep all this 
content. Something like:

—examples
|—nodes
|—learning
 |—vex
 |—vops
 |—dops



> On 30 Mar 2017, at 21:22, Jonathan Moore  wrote:
> 
> That’s certainly the aspect of ICE that I’d like to see mirrored in siLib.
>  
> One of the great things with ICE was that you could start by learning say the 
> particles compounds and as your knowledge grew you could start digging into 
> the compounds to see their granular makeup, exactly how the low level nodes 
> worked together to achieve the things they do.
>  
> This type of stepping stone isn’t part of Houdini and is something that I 
> think we could aim to create as part of the siLib library.
>   <>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Nicole 
> Beeckmans-Jacqmain
> Sent: 30 March 2017 20:51
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> 
> Subject: Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies
>  
> may-be there could be an enhanced user library,
> i don't know if that's what you wanted to accomplish?
> so that you don't get lost in learning the paths to possibilities,
> but could sort of 'browse' through the possibilities,
> in a library or database? does that make some sense? it would not really 
> modify Houdini's architecture.
> thanks for your answer.
>  
> 2017-03-30 21:34 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Moore  >:
>> I hate to sound inflexible in my views but Houdini is such a powerful 
>> application because of its technical approach.
>>  
>> Just because Softimage is no longer available and Maya is ‘problematic’ (to 
>> say the least) shouldn’t mean that SideFX should have to change their 
>> development strategy.
>>  
>> I believe that SideFX have in fact done a fantastic job of listening to 
>> customers that have moved to Houdini from other packages including 
>> Softimage. The speed with which they implemented a suggested change ref 
>> dropping VOP nodes over wires the other day is a fine example of that. But 
>> there‘s a danger of allowing the ‘tail to wag the dog’ so that Houdini gets 
>> changed for the worse rather than the better. I think SideFX have the 
>> balance of things pretty much spot on. There’s still huge improvements that 
>> can be made to the approachability of certain aspects of the user experience 
>> but I it’s never going to transform into something radically different to 
>> what’s available today. If anything, with so much of Houdini moving away 
>> from Hscript style expressions to VEX expressions (for very good reason - 
>> multithreaded performance) certain aspects of the Houdini user experience 
>> are in fact getting more technical. <>
>>  
>> The best way to learn how to adapt to Houdini is first to accept it for what 
>> it is. And part of the Houdini user experience has always been scripting and 
>> programming. That’s why it’s so often described as a 3d operating system 
>> rather than a DCC.
>>  
>> Apologies for spelling things out so bluntly but I can’t see Houdini 
>> evolving into something less technical.
>>  
>>  
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>>  
>> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Nicole 
>> Beeckmans-Jacqmain
>> Sent: 30 March 2017 19:57
>> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
>> >  >
>> Subject: Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies
>>  
>> hi. yes, was forced to stop following this week's entagma taurus tutorial.
>> again, these monthes i spend most of my time to write & storyboard.
>> got recently interested by _computer_  2d possibilities, new for me.
>> but as discussion advances here, i am getting discouraged to be able to talk 
>> in the future,  about a project with a Houdinist.
>> (i don't want to just supervize) because i am foremost a visual artist, 
>> isn't it that Houdini should evolve upside down,
>> so that Visual controls Math Thinking, and not the other way around.
>> Procedural Innovation looked nice, so far,  i guess?
>> so, in a way i donot opt if a new community shift occurs between
>> Maya artists and Houdini vop sop artists. or do you think it necessary, and 
>> why?
>> thanks
>> Nicole.
>>  
>> 2017-03-30 18:04 GMT+02:00 Morten Bartholdy > >:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I just also wish Houdini would be made more accessible for less 

Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

No problem guys. Happy to help.

I just made a first post on the group to get the ball rolling. It’s a public 
forum so everyone can read, but you’ll need to get confirmation to join before 
you can post. 

Do come join in, start your own threads etc.


> On 30 Mar 2017, at 16:33, Juan Brockhaus <juanxsil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> cool. thanks Andy!
> as soon as I have more time I will jump onto the houdini train... 
> Maya is just too painfull... but at the moment unfortunalty I have to use 
> it... :-/
> 
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 5:24 PM, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Excellent stuff Andy.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
> Sent: 30 March 2017 16:10
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list> 
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
> Subject: Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies
> 
> Okay, folks. The people have spoken. The poll results are in:
> 
> https://goo.gl/b0CPzn <https://goo.gl/b0CPzn>
> 
> It’s gonna be called “siLib”.
> 
> 
> I’ve created a GitHub repo here:
> 
> https://github.com/fxnut/siLib <https://github.com/fxnut/siLib>
> 
> and made a start with a basic structure that follows the usual Houdini 
> directory naming convention (identical to Aelib and qLib).
> 
> There’s also a new Google Group here:
> 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/houdini-silib 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/houdini-silib>
> 
> which you can either post to via the web interface, or by sending an email to:
> 
> houdini-si...@googlegroups.com <mailto:houdini-si...@googlegroups.com>
> 
> I suggest we move discussions over to there. See you on the other side!
> 
> A
> 
> 
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Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

Okay, folks. The people have spoken. The poll results are in:

https://goo.gl/b0CPzn

It’s gonna be called “siLib”.


I’ve created a GitHub repo here:

https://github.com/fxnut/siLib

and made a start with a basic structure that follows the usual Houdini 
directory naming convention (identical to Aelib and qLib).

There’s also a new Google Group here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/houdini-silib

which you can either post to via the web interface, or by sending an email to:

houdini-si...@googlegroups.com

I suggest we move discussions over to there. See you on the other side!

A


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Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

Suprised no one's suggested "Softy McSoftface Lib" ;)

On 30/03/2017 13:03, Andy Nicholas wrote:
Might be confused with the soho backend rendering framework in 
Houdini, no?


On 30/03/2017 12:49, Jordi Bares wrote:

Weird… what about sohoLib?

jb

On 30 Mar 2017, at 12:39, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Okay. Gonna narrow this down to the two most popular results. Please 
vote here in the next hour or so, and then we can move on with doing 
stuff!


https://goo.gl/u1aiFL

(FYI, that poll does let you add your own if you feel strongly, but 
do google it first to make sure it doesn't already exist as a 
prominent project. Ta!)



On 30/03/2017 11:43, Cristobal Infante wrote:

siLib

It makes a little face and everything

Cris


On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 at 10:55, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Hi Rob, great suggestion, but unfortunately...

http://x-stream.github.io/

It's hard to come up with something someone hasn't already
thought of!

Case in point:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=softlib

is only marginally better as at least there's not an actual library
called the same, just a company.


On 30/03/2017 10:46, Rob Chapman wrote:
> XstreamLib - my name suggestion.
>
>
>
>
>>>> Will leave this question hanging tonight in case anyone
else wants
>>>>
>>>> to chime in. Final decision can happen tomorrow.
>>>>
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Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Chris,
You get an error saying "Input data type does not match output for input 
'input1'." I agree with you that it should work. If you look at passing 
in a non-array value, the VEX code looks like it would be perfectly 
happy receiving an array as it just calls "min(parm)".


I figure it must be some sort of validation that's happening at a higher 
level in the Network Editor that's forbidding the array to be hooked up 
to it.



On 30/03/2017 10:42, Christopher Crouzet wrote:

Hey Andy,

Seems reasonable?


I am not arguing against the creation of a GetArrayMinimum node, I was 
just being curious to understand what I was missing (the min() VEX 
function always seemed to work for me), so thanks for taking the time 
to explain!


In fact I'm now curious to know why the MinVOP wouldn't work on arrays 
but unfortunately I don't have access to any of the *Array*VOP nodes 
in Houdini 13 so I cannot try it on my end. Does the node errors out 
when you connect a single array into the first input? If not, maybe 
you can check "View VEX Code" to see what's happening there? Since VOP 
compiles directly to VEX, I wouldn't have expected that it'd work in 
one case but not the other.



On 30 March 2017 at 15:58, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Hi Chris,
Yes, the min() VEX function does indeed work on arrays, but the
Min VOP unfortunately doesn’t.

It works as a good example though. I don’t want to confuse things,
but if we assume for a moment that the Min VOP did actually work
on arrays, I think it wouldn’t be unreasonable to find a way to
expose the functionality better to an artist, as it’s fairly
unusual to have a function that finds the minimum of several
inputs, as well as coping with feeding an array in. Creating a
node called "Get Array Min” that wraps the “Min” VOP, would make
things clearer at a small expense of duplication. Also, if someone
hits Tab and types “Array”, then they get to see all the nodes
that work on arrays include the new “Get Array Min” node. Without
it, they wouldn’t ever see the Min VOP and would risk overlooking
that functionality.

This way of thinking is similar to what SideFX have been doing
with the wrangle SOPs. (For those who don’t know, the Attribute
Wrangle,Vertex Wrangle, Point Wrangle, and Primitive Wrangle are
all exactly the same nodes, just with different presets applied.)
I think this added verbosity of “macro” nodes is okay in
situations where it provides clarity and requires the user to
remember less. Just as long as you don’t end up with a library of
nodes that does nothing but translate the linguistic differences
between Softimage and Houdini, as that wouldn’t really help anyone
in the long run.

But since the Min VOP doesn’t work, I imagine we would just wrap a
VEX snippet calling the min() function and make sure it looks as
similar as possible to the other VOPs. Seems reasonable?


I rarely feel the need for storing arrays in attributes


Yep, arrays aren’t needed that often in attributes, but they’re
essential for some types of operations, e.g. edge relaxing, where
you need to store rest edge lengths. I would imagine that most
people who have used a lot of ICE find it quite comfortable to use
arrays (e.g strands) and are an essential part of their toolkit,
so it makes sense to streamline Houdini's workflow to support it.


Maybe the first thing to do before porting a node/workflow from
Softimage would be to figure out how to do it best in Houdini, as
a way to get more familiar with Houdini's philosophy, and then
balance the pros/cons of each approach.


Exactly. See what I wrote in the first paragraph in my reply to
Jordi yesterday at 20:08 and I think you’ll see we’re thinking on
the same lines. Whatever gets made must feel like a natural
extension of Houdini and be highly compatible with the standard
way of working in Houdini, rather than working against it.

I think there’ll be a lot of back and forth about how nodes are
authored and what expectations we need to have of them, so do get
involved when it moves across to the Google group.

A




On 30 Mar 2017, at 02:09, Christopher Crouzet
<christopher.crou...@gmail.com
<mailto:christopher.crou...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Regarding GetArrayMinimum: there is a min()
<http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/vex/functions/min> function
in VEX, or were you referring to something else?

Note that I'm still using Houdini 13 where support for arrays is
not as extended as in later versions, but I rarely feel the need
for storing arrays in attributes, or even using arrays at all in
my code. An example of exception would be to store the list of
neighbouring indices for the d

Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

Okay. Gonna narrow this down to the two most popular results. Please 
vote here in the next hour or so, and then we can move on with doing stuff!


https://goo.gl/u1aiFL

(FYI, that poll does let you add your own if you feel strongly, but do 
google it first to make sure it doesn't already exist as a prominent 
project. Ta!)



On 30/03/2017 11:43, Cristobal Infante wrote:

siLib

It makes a little face and everything

Cris


On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 at 10:55, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Hi Rob, great suggestion, but unfortunately...

http://x-stream.github.io/

It's hard to come up with something someone hasn't already thought of!

Case in point:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=softlib

is only marginally better as at least there's not an actual library
called the same, just a company.


On 30/03/2017 10:46, Rob Chapman wrote:
> XstreamLib - my name suggestion.
>
>
>
>
>>>> Will leave this question hanging tonight in case anyone else
wants
>>>>
>>>> to chime in. Final decision can happen tomorrow.
>>>>
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Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Rob, great suggestion, but unfortunately...

http://x-stream.github.io/

It's hard to come up with something someone hasn't already thought of!

Case in point:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=softlib

is only marginally better as at least there's not an actual library 
called the same, just a company.


On 30/03/2017 10:46, Rob Chapman wrote:
> XstreamLib - my name suggestion.
>
>
>
>
 Will leave this question hanging tonight in case anyone else wants

 to chime in. Final decision can happen tomorrow.

> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

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Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Chris,
Yes, the min() VEX function does indeed work on arrays, but the Min VOP 
unfortunately doesn’t.

It works as a good example though. I don’t want to confuse things, but if we 
assume for a moment that the Min VOP did actually work on arrays, I think it 
wouldn’t be unreasonable to find a way to expose the functionality better to an 
artist, as it’s fairly unusual to have a function that finds the minimum of 
several inputs, as well as coping with feeding an array in. Creating a node 
called "Get Array Min” that wraps the “Min” VOP, would make things clearer at a 
small expense of duplication. Also, if someone hits Tab and types “Array”, then 
they get to see all the nodes that work on arrays include the new “Get Array 
Min” node. Without it, they wouldn’t ever see the Min VOP and would risk 
overlooking that functionality. 

This way of thinking is similar to what SideFX have been doing with the wrangle 
SOPs. (For those who don’t know, the Attribute Wrangle,Vertex Wrangle, Point 
Wrangle, and Primitive Wrangle are all exactly the same nodes, just with 
different presets applied.) I think this added verbosity of “macro” nodes is 
okay in situations where it provides clarity and requires the user to remember 
less. Just as long as you don’t end up with a library of nodes that does 
nothing but translate the linguistic differences between Softimage and Houdini, 
as that wouldn’t really help anyone in the long run.

But since the Min VOP doesn’t work, I imagine we would just wrap a VEX snippet 
calling the min() function and make sure it looks as similar as possible to the 
other VOPs. Seems reasonable?

> I rarely feel the need for storing arrays in attributes


Yep, arrays aren’t needed that often in attributes, but they’re essential for 
some types of operations, e.g. edge relaxing, where you need to store rest edge 
lengths. I would imagine that most people who have used a lot of ICE find it 
quite comfortable to use arrays (e.g strands) and are an essential part of 
their toolkit, so it makes sense to streamline Houdini's workflow to support it.

> Maybe the first thing to do before porting a node/workflow from Softimage 
> would be to figure out how to do it best in Houdini, as a way to get more 
> familiar with Houdini's philosophy, and then balance the pros/cons of each 
> approach.


Exactly. See what I wrote in the first paragraph in my reply to Jordi yesterday 
at 20:08 and I think you’ll see we’re thinking on the same lines. Whatever gets 
made must feel like a natural extension of Houdini and be highly compatible 
with the standard way of working in Houdini, rather than working against it.

I think there’ll be a lot of back and forth about how nodes are authored and 
what expectations we need to have of them, so do get involved when it moves 
across to the Google group.

A



> On 30 Mar 2017, at 02:09, Christopher Crouzet <christopher.crou...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Regarding GetArrayMinimum: there is a min() 
> <http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/vex/functions/min> function in VEX, or 
> were you referring to something else?
> 
> Note that I'm still using Houdini 13 where support for arrays is not as 
> extended as in later versions, but I rarely feel the need for storing arrays 
> in attributes, or even using arrays at all in my code. An example of 
> exception would be to store the list of neighbouring indices for the 
> downstream nodes to use, but then it's likely that putting all the logic in a 
> single monolithic VEX instead wouldn't be such a bad approach.
> 
> Maybe the first thing to do before porting a node/workflow from Softimage 
> would be to figure out how to do it best in Houdini, as a way to get more 
> familiar with Houdini's philosophy, and then balance the pros/cons of each 
> approach.
> 
> 
> PS: I personally find it cool to see the list revived with Houdini 
> discussions!
> 
> 
> On 30 March 2017 at 02:10, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> | BTW, I suspect that many on this list might prefer we move the discussion 
> elsewhere to stop the off-topic noise. I was thinking of Google groups being 
> a good option.
> 
>  
> 
> Sounds like a good idea.
> 
>   <>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
> Sent: 29 March 2017 20:08
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list> 
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
> Subject: Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies
>

Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep, agreed. I think we can be more ambitious. Rather than just cloning old 
workflows, we should use them as inspiration to improve on. There’s no point 
precisely duplicating something if that ends up causing long time Houdini users 
confusion because it doesn’t work the way they expect, or if it adds too much 
performance overhead just to make it “nice” from a Softimage point of view. I 
think it should be about making Houdini faster, simpler, and easier to use to 
create and rapidly prototype effects. That was what we liked so much about 
Softimage and ICE after all.

Houdini tends to have big nodes with lots of functionality. I think we should 
think about having smaller nodes, with more singular functionality that is 
extremely clear. That way, you don’t have to read the manual each time you put 
one down. They should all be VEX expression-able too. I suspect some sort of 
convention about how nodes are made will be necessary in order to provide 
simplicity through consistency.

How easy all this will be in practice, I don’t know. I suspect the most 
important thing to decide on first is what the problem actually is, before we 
figure out ways to solve it. Three key areas for me are:

* Obvious missing VOP functionality (e.g. like the example that came up 
earlier: GetArrayMinimum, etc.)
* Extend the POP functionality. I find the current one quite clunky and hard to 
do things quickly like manipulating particle orientation. Ever tried making a 
particle spin around it’s local velocity as it travels? It's not quick to do at 
all.
* Decide on some typical and frequently used DOP use cases and figure out ways 
to set them up simply. E.g. Emit RBD From Particles.

That’s just off the top of my head, but I’m sure others have their own ideas 
and priorities which I’d love to hear. Do pipe up as well if there’s something 
you’re keen to help with or have a strong opinion on. I’m not doing it all 
myself! ;)

BTW, I suspect that many on this list might prefer we move the discussion 
elsewhere to stop the off-topic noise. I was thinking of Google groups being a 
good option.

A



> On 29 Mar 2017, at 19:30, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Don't you think although the inspiration may be to clone useful components 
> and tools found in Softimage there is potentially a much bigger scope?
> 
> Not only that, traditional Houdini artists may find these tools useful too?
> 
> I guess what I am trying to say is, Softimage is dead, let's move on to an 
> even better place rather than hang around in old memories.
> 
> My 2 cents 
> 
> Jb
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 29 Mar 2017, at 19:23, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>> The EOL_lib
>> or
>> The KnightsOfNi_lib
>> 
>> 2017-03-29 20:05 GMT+02:00 Fabricio Chamon <xsiml...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:xsiml...@gmail.com>>:
>> softLib looks good!
>> 
>> Em qua, 29 de mar de 2017 às 18:51, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
>> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> escreveu:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> haha! :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Will leave this question hanging tonight in case anyone else wants
>> 
>> to chime in. Final decision can happen tomorrow.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 29/03/2017 17:38, Olivier Jeannel
>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Autodesk lib ?
>>> 
>>> N too rancorous...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
>>> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>>
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'd probably go with
>>> 
>>> something like Andy's siLib or softLib - it's a bit more
>>> 
>>> obvious what it is. Probably the latter if it was up to me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 29/03/2017 17:14, Jonathan Moore wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I was thinking H20...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 29 March 2017 at 17:12, Andy
>>>> 
>>>> Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com <>>
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> In
>>&g

Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

haha! :)

Will leave this question hanging tonight in case anyone else wants to 
chime in. Final decision can happen tomorrow.


On 29/03/2017 17:38, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

Autodesk lib ?
N too rancorous...

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


I'd probably go with something like Andy's siLib or softLib - it's
a bit more obvious what it is. Probably the latter if it was up to me.

What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?

On 29/03/2017 17:14, Jonathan Moore wrote:

I was thinking H20...

On 29 March 2017 at 17:12, Andy Goehler
<lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com');>>
wrote:

In honor of inspiration how about?

• softLib
• siLib
• ICELib


> On Mar 29, 2017, at 6:08 PM, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a...@andynicholas.com');>> wrote:
>
> Continuing the thread here:
>
> Any suggestions for a name?
    > A
>
> On 29/03/2017 17:00, Andy Nicholas wrote:
>> I'm more than happy to help. I'm just unsure how much time
I'll be
>> able to devote to this as I'm pretty busy with some
personal work at
>> the moment.
>>
>> How about I set up something similar to Nick's on Github
and we go
>> from there?
>>
>> We need a name for it. Let's start a new thread on the
list and move
>> discussions over to that. Is that okay?
>>
>> A
>
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Re: Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

I'd probably go with something like Andy's siLib or softLib - it's a bit 
more obvious what it is. Probably the latter if it was up to me.


What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?

On 29/03/2017 17:14, Jonathan Moore wrote:

I was thinking H20...

On 29 March 2017 at 17:12, Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>> wrote:


In honor of inspiration how about?

• softLib
• siLib
• ICELib


> On Mar 29, 2017, at 6:08 PM, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
>
> Continuing the thread here:
>
> Any suggestions for a name?
    > A
>
> On 29/03/2017 17:00, Andy Nicholas wrote:
>> I'm more than happy to help. I'm just unsure how much time I'll be
>> able to devote to this as I'm pretty busy with some personal
work at
>> the moment.
>>
>> How about I set up something similar to Nick's on Github and we go
>> from there?
>>
>> We need a name for it. Let's start a new thread on the list and
move
>> discussions over to that. Is that okay?
>>
>> A
>
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Houdini Digital Assets for Softies

[Andy Nicholas]

Continuing the thread here:

Any suggestions for a name?
A

On 29/03/2017 17:00, Andy Nicholas wrote:
> I'm more than happy to help. I'm just unsure how much time I'll be 
> able to devote to this as I'm pretty busy with some personal work at 
> the moment.
>
> How about I set up something similar to Nick's on Github and we go 
> from there?
>
> We need a name for it. Let's start a new thread on the list and move 
> discussions over to that. Is that okay?
>
> A

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

I'm more than happy to help. I'm just unsure how much time I'll be able 
to devote to this as I'm pretty busy with some personal work at the moment.


How about I set up something similar to Nick's on Github and we go from 
there?


We need a name for it. Let's start a new thread on the list and move 
discussions over to that. Is that okay?


A




On 29/03/2017 16:44, Jonathan Moore wrote:

I'm still waiting for other willing volunteers. :)

On 29 March 2017 at 16:36, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Good idea. He's organised his library in the standard Houdini way
so I'm sure he'll be able to help guide things if you're looking
to move forward with this.


On 29/03/2017 16:02, Jonathan Moore wrote:


By the way, does anybody have any issues if I talk to Nick Taylor
ref the idea of putting a qLib like library together. I think
he’s done a sterling effort with his AeLib library, which mirrors
the framework of the qLib library. I’m also a fan of his work for
- http://futuredeluxe.co.uk/ - and he’s a regular helping hand on
the Discord server. That could be useful for sense checking
emerging ideas against the wider consensus of the Houdini community.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf Of
*Andy Nicholas
*Sent:* 29 March 2017 15:50
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

> Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you
want to maintain speed imho.

Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete
game changer for me in the last couple of years or so. There's
just so much you can do with it, and like you said, it's super
fast. It's particularly useful in doing generative geometry and
other low level geo operations. As much as I still love ICE, Vex
is so much more robust and powerful.

And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck!

A

On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :)

I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays).
I wanted to do this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want
to bother people to much, plus you have to be sure that what
you're asking has sense, and sometimes you just want to find
yourself ^^

I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la
softimage. Recently someone (can't remember the name) posted
a tut about clumping hair on vimeo. And I came up with
something hybrid but very fast without any for each sop and a
little bit of array.

Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you
want to maintain speed imho.


    On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:

Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.

> I miss the "sort array with key"

You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array
Reorder". Use the Array Arg Sort to sort your "key" value
and produce indices, which you then feed to the "Array
Reorder". Maybe that's the first Softimage ICE HDA
someone could make. Just encapsulate these two to become
a "Sort Array by Key" node.

I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the
complexity and the overwhelming feeling of "great, I can
do anything, but where the heck do I start". Much of
which is over the linquistical issues like, for example,
the disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of
nodes and what they actually do. I wouldn't mind betting
that if people start putting together Softimage->Houdini
digital assets, the first noticeable thing will be the
Softimage style names that are used!

Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a
foreign language? Takes a while to get fluent.

A


On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only
speak for vop (not vex).

Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it
took me time to figure (in fact Mikael tut was the
answer)

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

Good idea. He's organised his library in the standard Houdini way so I'm 
sure he'll be able to help guide things if you're looking to move 
forward with this.


On 29/03/2017 16:02, Jonathan Moore wrote:


By the way, does anybody have any issues if I talk to Nick Taylor ref 
the idea of putting a qLib like library together. I think he’s done a 
sterling effort with his AeLib library, which mirrors the framework of 
the qLib library. I’m also a fan of his work for - 
http://futuredeluxe.co.uk/ - and he’s a regular helping hand on the 
Discord server. That could be useful for sense checking emerging ideas 
against the wider consensus of the Houdini community.


*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy 
Nicholas

*Sent:* 29 March 2017 15:50
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

> Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to 
maintain speed imho.


Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete game 
changer for me in the last couple of years or so. There's just so much 
you can do with it, and like you said, it's super fast. It's 
particularly useful in doing generative geometry and other low level 
geo operations. As much as I still love ICE, Vex is so much more 
robust and powerful.


And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck!

A

On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :)

I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays). I
wanted to do this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want to
bother people to much, plus you have to be sure that what you're
asking has sense, and sometimes you just want to find yourself ^^

I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la softimage.
Recently someone (can't remember the name) posted a tut about
clumping hair on vimeo. And I came up with something hybrid but
very fast without any for each sop and a little bit of array.

Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want
to maintain speed imho.


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:

Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.

> I miss the "sort array with key"

You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use
the Array Arg Sort to sort your "key" value and produce
indices, which you then feed to the "Array Reorder". Maybe
that's the first Softimage ICE HDA someone could make. Just
encapsulate these two to become a "Sort Array by Key" node.

I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the
complexity and the overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do
anything, but where the heck do I start". Much of which is
over the linquistical issues like, for example, the
disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of nodes and
what they actually do. I wouldn't mind betting that if people
start putting together Softimage->Houdini digital assets, the
first noticeable thing will be the Softimage style names that
are used!

Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a
foreign language? Takes a while to get fluent.

A


On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for
vop (not vex).

Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took
me time to figure (in fact Mikael tut was the answer)

Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a
limitation when coming to sort those vertex.

I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but
an arbitrary integer attribute I'm not sure I can.

I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building
and sorting.

I miss the "sort array with key"

I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over
complicated.



On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a...@andynicholas.com');>>
wrote:

Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)

Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you
have the added benefit of being able to see the arrays
directly in Houdini using the Geometry Spreadsheet,
rather than turning on the visualisation in Softimage
and have them disappearing off the top of

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

> Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to 
maintain speed imho.


Definitely. Getting into Vex in a big way has been a complete game 
changer for me in the last couple of years or so. There's just so much 
you can do with it, and like you said, it's super fast. It's 
particularly useful in doing generative geometry and other low level geo 
operations. As much as I still love ICE, Vex is so much more robust and 
powerful.


And sure, feel free to send a scene if you get stuck!

A

On 29/03/2017 15:32, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

Thank you Andy ! Got to try that when I'm back :)
I should send you some scene with some questions (somedays). I wanted 
to do this with Mikael, but sometimes you don't want to bother people 
to much, plus you have to be sure that what you're asking has sense, 
and sometimes you just want to find yourself ^^
I quite loved the other day thread about strands a la softimage. 
Recently someone (can't remember the name) posted a tut about clumping 
hair on vimeo. And I came up with something hybrid but very fast 
without any for each sop and a little bit of array.
Arrays and vop (or vex if that's your thing) are keys if you want to 
maintain speed imho.


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.

> I miss the "sort array with key"

You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use the
Array Arg Sort to sort your "key" value and produce indices, which
you then feed to the "Array Reorder". Maybe that's the first
Softimage ICE HDA someone could make. Just encapsulate these two
to become a "Sort Array by Key" node.

I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the complexity
and the overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do anything, but
where the heck do I start". Much of which is over the linquistical
issues like, for example, the disconnectivity between slightly
obscure naming of nodes and what they actually do. I wouldn't mind
betting that if people start putting together Softimage->Houdini
digital assets, the first noticeable thing will be the Softimage
style names that are used!

Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a foreign
language? Takes a while to get fluent.

A



On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for vop
(not vex).
Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took me
time to figure (in fact Mikael tut was the answer)
Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a
limitation when coming to sort those vertex.
I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but an
arbitrary integer attribute I'm not sure I can.
I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building and sorting.
I miss the "sort array with key"

I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over complicated.


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a...@andynicholas.com');>> wrote:

Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)

Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the
added benefit of being able to see the arrays directly in
Houdini using the Geometry Spreadsheet, rather than turning
on the visualisation in Softimage and have them disappearing
off the top of the screen. You can do Python style array
slicing in VEX too which is awesomely useful.

Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest question
to try and understand where Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too
close to it to see the issues.

A


On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:

I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much
    sense as in Softimage… Andy??? You are the expert here.

jb


On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:

Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with
ICE arrays and Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of
adding, removing, sorting, etc. elements in the array in
whatever context you're in, no?

A

On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

An example of something we own as ice user :
One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by
Volume.
When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with
people using the Attribute transfer, I tried to use it
myself and was horrified : I found it slow and not precize.
Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and
imho that's by far the most efficient method.
The h

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

Thanks for sharing. It's useful to see where you see issues.

> I miss the "sort array with key"

You need two nodes: "Array Arg Sort", and "Array Reorder". Use the Array 
Arg Sort to sort your "key" value and produce indices, which you then 
feed to the "Array Reorder". Maybe that's the first Softimage ICE HDA 
someone could make. Just encapsulate these two to become a "Sort Array 
by Key" node.


I think a lot of problems with learning Houdini is the complexity and 
the overwhelming feeling of "great, I can do anything, but where the 
heck do I start". Much of which is over the linquistical issues like, 
for example, the disconnectivity between slightly obscure naming of 
nodes and what they actually do. I wouldn't mind betting that if people 
start putting together Softimage->Houdini digital assets, the first 
noticeable thing will be the Softimage style names that are used!


Maybe learning Houdini is a similar process to learning a foreign 
language? Takes a while to get fluent.


A



On 29/03/2017 14:33, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

I'm not comfident enough to tell, and I can only speak for vop (not vex).
Having to build a for each loop set of nodes, well it took me time to 
figure (in fact Mikael tut was the answer)
Having to work with per prim vertex array seems to be a limitation 
when coming to sort those vertex.
I have overal sorting issues : it's ok to sort ptnum but an arbitrary 
integer attribute I'm not sure I can.

I wish there was more example (in vop) of array building and sorting.
I miss the "sort array with key"

I'm just starting with arrays in H but I find it over complicated.


On Wednesday, March 29, 2017, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)

Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the
added benefit of being able to see the arrays directly in Houdini
using the Geometry Spreadsheet, rather than turning on the
visualisation in Softimage and have them disappearing off the top
of the screen. You can do Python style array slicing in VEX too
which is awesomely useful.

Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest question to
try and understand where Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too close
to it to see the issues.

A


On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:

I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much sense as
in Softimage… Andy??? You are the expert here.

jb


On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a...@andynicholas.com');>> wrote:

Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE
arrays and Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of adding,
removing, sorting, etc. elements in the array in whatever
context you're in, no?

A

On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

An example of something we own as ice user :
One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume.
When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with
people using the Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself
and was horrified : I found it slow and not precize.
Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho
that's by far the most efficient method.
The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way
of working ?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA
(which is simply the vop compounded).
The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer
values of any context (point, prim, you name it, ..)
I'll try to record something.

I think there's a large place for improvement in H for
everything that concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of
things to do with arrays , hence the speed. And the ice tools
were super efficient for that. In Houdini, there's a kind of
"thinking" that as VOP by nature is looping through points it
is an "enough" solution.
Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a
vex/C/python programmer I find it very time consumming to
understand. Plus there are no doc samples or tut, a part from
the one from Mikael Perterssen
http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/
<http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/>. That makes me wonder if
other people really consider or understand this.
Also, if you compare Peter Quint and Mikael way to deal with
States, hell, I'm 200% on the ice method.


2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel
<facialdel...@gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','facialdel...@gmail.com');>>:

I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice
minded HDA library.

2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman
<tekano@gmail.com
&l

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

Heh! Flattery will get you everywhere ;)

Yes, they make sense in both packages to me, and you have the added 
benefit of being able to see the arrays directly in Houdini using the 
Geometry Spreadsheet, rather than turning on the visualisation in 
Softimage and have them disappearing off the top of the screen. You can 
do Python style array slicing in VEX too which is awesomely useful.


Anyway, that's why I wanted to ask Olivier an honest question to try and 
understand where Houdini is lacking. Maybe I'm too close to it to see 
the issues.


A


On 29/03/2017 13:06, Jordi Bares wrote:
I was wondering if using arrays in Houdini makes as much sense as in 
Softimage… Andy??? You are the expert here.


jb

On 29 Mar 2017, at 10:57, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE arrays 
and Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of adding, removing, 
sorting, etc. elements in the array in whatever context you're in, no?


A

On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

An example of something we own as ice user :
One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume.
When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with people 
using the Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself and was 
horrified : I found it slow and not precize.
Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho that's 
by far the most efficient method.
The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way of 
working ?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA (which is 
simply the vop compounded).
The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer values 
of any context (point, prim, you name it, ..)

I'll try to record something.

I think there's a large place for improvement in H for everything 
that concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of things to do with 
arrays , hence the speed. And the ice tools were super efficient for 
that. In Houdini, there's a kind of "thinking" that as VOP by nature 
is looping through points it is an "enough" solution.
Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a vex/C/python 
programmer I find it very time consumming to understand. Plus there 
are no doc samples or tut, a part from the one from Mikael 
Perterssen http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/. That makes me wonder 
if other people really consider or understand this.
Also, if you compare Peter Quint and Mikael way to deal with States, 
hell, I'm 200% on the ice method.



2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>>:


I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice minded HDA
library.

2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman <tekano@gmail.com
<mailto:tekano@gmail.com>>:

Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also slowly
attemting to transition and agree with most already said and
thanks, is already a huge pointer to as yet unknown aspects
and features of how complex houdini is.
 also would be interested in a more 'compounded' way of
learning Houdini like ice was introduced. Everything a
compound node of nested compound logic with exact same UI
logic and Core nodes and complexity under the hood but still
accessable in a single click and an 'easy for artists'
ability to follow the logic flow into further nested
compounds and see how it was made. Not so with houdini yet
 open one compound and is equivalent to inside of the
neighborhood telephone junction box. Part of the enjoyment,
for me, was building own logic and then seeing the contrast
of the 'Softimage' way, and for sure, if you are building
something fairly complex requiring macro detailed
interactions with something of a much larger scale, eg
characters running through a several fields of flowers,
 then somethings can be improved or optimised from the off
the shelf examples. Otherwise prepare for big data and long
iteration times. It seems covering all bases like the
'houdini' way is fine for examples and base setup but not so
in more complicated tasks is better to be good at
understanding which bits to leave out.  or be able rapidly
prototype your own. I think like Mr Bolland has done and
Pooby is asking for is these intermediate compounds between
that Softimage bought with it to help us poor artists out 

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Olivier, where do you see the biggest difference with ICE arrays and 
Houdini arrays? In both you have ways of adding, removing, sorting, etc. 
elements in the array in whatever context you're in, no?


A

On 29/03/2017 09:48, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

An example of something we own as ice user :
One of the first thing I replicated was the Modulate by Volume.
When I arrived on Houdini and saw all those tutorial with people using 
the Attribute transfer, I tried to use it myself and was horrified : I 
found it slow and not precize.
Nobody was using a UV location + dotproduct method, and imho that's by 
far the most efficient method.
The hardest thinking was "how should I wire it in Houdini way of 
working ?". I came up with one Vop HDA, and one SOP HDA (which is 
simply the vop compounded).
The great "plus" with Houdini, is that it's able to transfer values of 
any context (point, prim, you name it, ..)

I'll try to record something.

I think there's a large place for improvement in H for everything that 
concerns arrays. In ice, there was a lot of things to do with arrays , 
hence the speed. And the ice tools were super efficient for that. In 
Houdini, there's a kind of "thinking" that as VOP by nature is looping 
through points it is an "enough" solution.
Well, "maybe" but it's so criptic that unless you're a vex/C/python 
programmer I find it very time consumming to understand. Plus there 
are no doc samples or tut, a part from the one from Mikael Perterssen 
http://shortandsweet3d.blogspot.fr/. That makes me wonder if other 
people really consider or understand this.
Also, if you compare Peter Quint and Mikael way to deal with States, 
hell, I'm 200% on the ice method.



2017-03-28 20:39 GMT+02:00 Olivier Jeannel >:


I'm a morron, but I'd love to have exclusive pure Ice minded HDA
library.

2017-03-28 20:29 GMT+02:00 Rob Chapman >:

Thought I'd pipe in since tekano got invoked, also slowly
attemting to transition and agree with most already said and
thanks, is already a huge pointer to as yet unknown aspects
and features of how complex houdini is.
 also would be interested in a more 'compounded' way of
learning Houdini like ice was introduced. Everything a
compound node of nested compound logic with exact same UI
logic and Core nodes and complexity under the hood but still
accessable in a single click and an 'easy for artists' ability
to follow the logic flow into further nested compounds and see
how it was made. Not so with houdini yet  open one compound
and is equivalent to inside of the neighborhood telephone
junction box. Part of the enjoyment, for me, was building own
logic and then seeing the contrast of the 'Softimage' way, and
for sure, if you are building something fairly complex
requiring macro detailed interactions with something of a much
larger scale, eg characters running through a several fields
of flowers,  then somethings can be improved or optimised from
the off the shelf examples.  Otherwise prepare for big data
and long iteration times. It seems covering all bases like the
'houdini' way is fine for examples and base setup but not so
in more complicated tasks is better to be good at
understanding which bits to leave out.  or be able rapidly
prototype your own. I think like Mr Bolland has done and Pooby
is asking for is these intermediate compounds between that
Softimage bought with it to help us poor artists out 

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

Haha! You're always the eternal optimist Jordi, to your credit :) Yep, I 
totally see what you're getting at. There's definitely value in the 
cross-pollenisation of experience, just as long as it doesn't become a 
clash of ideologies. We all know how passionate people can get!


I guess I think of it more in terms of software libraries. I wouldn't 
ever recommend having a single monolithic library containing everything. 
Modular is good. Plus there's nothing stopping people bringing in some 
of the QLib guys to give advice anyway.


A

On 28/03/2017 17:26, Jordi Bares wrote:


With regards to a Softimage library of tools. Great idea. Personally, 
I'd recommend doing it as a separate project to QLib as you'll no 
doubt want to introduce the Softimage "feel" to the tools that may or 
may not sit well with the other tools in QLib. Plus you'll want to 
have your own editorial control as to what you think a Softimage 
artist would want and collaborate with other Soft'ies. Definitely 
worth taking a look at QLib's assets though as you can learn a lot 
about what's possible.


BTW, for those who haven't seen Houdini Galleries in action, I'd 
strongly recommend having a look as a nice fast alternative to having 
to build digital assets. Workflow wise, I find them much easier to 
use than HDA’s.


Don’t you think it is precisely the balance between Softimage and 
Houdini together with in-depth qLib guys expertise that provides the 
real value?


Let’s imagine you put all Softimage users in a room, they will try to 
copy Softimage… not good… Let’s imagine it is all Houdini users, they 
will ignore Softimage so my point really is that there is huge 
potential synergy in a mixed approach.


Or I am being optimistic..  ;-)
jb


A


On 28/03/2017 16:17, p...@bustykelp.com wrote:
Yes. I have spent most of my time in VOPs so far and I have to say. 
I don’t find it as fun or fast as ICE to get stuff done and I don’t 
think its simply because I’m unfamiliar with it. Although of course 
that’s true to an extent.
Not suggesting they have to replicate the ICE of doing things, but 
it could do with a bit of a user-friendly overhaul. I’m finding that 
I’m usually using about 3 times as many nodes to get things done, 
and finding it hard to ‘compound’ them because the compounds require 
a lot more inputs than in ICE.

Can I save a ‘location’? and read it later? That would help.
I also miss being able to execute lines..


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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep, totally agree with what's been said. Houdini tends to be a lot 
slower to develop stuff. Even simple tools can be tricky when you 
realise that you ideally need to take care of a lot of edge cases to 
make your tool work. E.g. what happens if someone supplies packed 
primitives instead of regular primitives to your inputs? Or volumes? How 
do you give visual feedback? Most people ignore these sorts of issues 
when making nodes including SideFX unfortunately.


Actually, error handling and user response is one of my most regular 
frustrations. Especially in DOPs where solvers are basically black 
boxes. So many times things just don't work but you have no idea why. It 
might be that your velocity field needs to be a VBD vector field instead 
of 3 x normal volumes called V.x, V.y, and V.z (see POP Advect By 
Volumes!). Or maybe you just named your DOP data slightly wrong in one 
node. Good luck finding that if you're in a rush, because it generally 
won't be shown as an error, and the documentation can be sorely lacking 
in the necessary details. I wish there was a mechanism in Houdini for 
digital assets to run some sort of test on its inputs to say "I expect 
" as I'm sure it would speed up peoples workflow.


Anyway, yes, compounds in XSI were so easy, just define your inputs and 
off you go. Houdini's a bit of a mixed bag, it gives you fantastic 
control and versatility at the expense of development speed.


With regards to a Softimage library of tools. Great idea. Personally, 
I'd recommend doing it as a separate project to QLib as you'll no doubt 
want to introduce the Softimage "feel" to the tools that may or may not 
sit well with the other tools in QLib. Plus you'll want to have your own 
editorial control as to what you think a Softimage artist would want and 
collaborate with other Soft'ies. Definitely worth taking a look at 
QLib's assets though as you can learn a lot about what's possible.


BTW, for those who haven't seen Houdini Galleries in action, I'd 
strongly recommend having a look as a nice fast alternative to having to 
build digital assets. Workflow wise, I find them much easier to use than 
HDA's.


A


On 28/03/2017 16:17, p...@bustykelp.com wrote:
Yes. I have spent most of my time in VOPs so far and I have to say. I 
don’t find it as fun or fast as ICE to get stuff done and I don’t 
think its simply because I’m unfamiliar with it. Although of course 
that’s true to an extent.
Not suggesting they have to replicate the ICE of doing things, but it 
could do with a bit of a user-friendly overhaul. I’m finding that I’m 
usually using about 3 times as many nodes to get things done, and 
finding it hard to ‘compound’ them because the compounds require a lot 
more inputs than in ICE.

Can I save a ‘location’? and read it later? That would help.
I also miss being able to execute lines..


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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

> Firstly. I don’t see that you can store a matrix per-point attribute. 
Is it possible?


Yes, it is possible. It works as an array of 16 (or 9) floats. Just make 
a Point Wrangle with some points going in and put "matrix @mat;" in it 
to see.


> How would an experienced Houdini person deal with getting/calculating 
Pointreferenceframe on a surface?


Polyframe SOP should get you there pretty quickly. It doesn't create a 
matrix attribute though as it won't interpolate correctly across 
primitives. It just creates normal, tangent, and bi-tangent vectors.


You can use xyzdist() and primuv() to find and interpolate those 
vectors. Those functions give you the Houdini equivalent functionality 
of locations. You can then calculate the matrix in Vex using 
"maketransform(vector zaxis, vector xaxis)" 
(http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/vex/functions/maketransform)


Worth mentioning that the Attribute Interpolate SOP can do the same 
thing as primuv() if you prefer.


A


On 28/03/2017 10:04, p...@bustykelp.com wrote:
They fixed it quicker than it took me to make a video showing how 
annoying it could be!
I have a question regarding attributes.. In ICE. I use 
‘pointreferenceframe’ all the time for finding the orientation at a 
surface for making deformers.
In Houdini, there are not all these useful attributes that ICE has by 
default. I can make a thing that calculates a homemade orientation 
a-la PointReferenceFrame, and it works but it takes up a huge amount 
of nodes. Also, you can’t just ‘get’ it. It needs loads of inputs on 
the tree that’s finding it.
Firstly. I don’t see that you can store a matrix per-point attribute. 
Is it possible?
How would an experienced Houdini person deal with getting/calculating 
Pointreferenceframe on a surface?

*From:* Jordi Bares <mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:44 AM
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.
I can tell you, that is not unusual.
jb
On 28 Mar 2017, at 08:31, Andy Goehler <lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Good morning,
this is the awesome support at SideFX
Available in the daily builds.
yesterday
	Houdini 16.0.561 	Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of 
the "Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires" preference while in the middle of 
dragging a node.


On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


No problem Jonathan.

A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:

1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier,
but they mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect
on wires using CTRL+8 or in the Network View menu under Tools->
Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires. This doesn't work during a drag
operation though, so I've gone back and explained the desired
workflow of having a modifier key to toggle the behaviour during
the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in here now
case it's useful to anyone in the mean time.

2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in
this thread there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's
Explorer view where you can see clean hierarchies of objects. You
can do it in the Tree View. You just need to enable the Object
Filter (the first button in the Tree View's tool bar). You can
also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and there are various
other options in there which can be helpful for sorting and
grouping the objects in a tree structure. Definitely worth
playing with anyway. Sorry for the misinformation before!

Cheers,
A


On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:


Thanks Andy.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of
*Andy Nicholas
*Sent:* 26 March 2017 00:37
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto
connection on demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile
enhancement request.

FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the
link to this thread.

A



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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

Hahahaha! That's amazing :) When I got an email from SideFX changing the 
status of the RFE to "Fixed", I just assumed that they had agreed that 
it was a valid request that they'd look into, not that they'd actually 
gone and bloody done it. Well done SideFX!


In case he's still reading this thread, thanks to Mark Tucker at SideFX 
who dealt with this so promptly.


A


On 28/03/2017 08:31, Andy Goehler wrote:

Good morning,

this is the awesome support at SideFX

Available in the daily builds.
yesterday
	Houdini 16.0.561 	Added a hotkey to temporary toggle the state of the 
"Allow Dropping Nodes on Wires" preference while in the middle of 
dragging a node.




On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 at 12:22, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


No problem Jonathan.

A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:

1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but
they mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on
wires using CTRL+8 or in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow
Dropping Nodes on Wires. This doesn't work during a drag operation
though, so I've gone back and explained the desired workflow of
having a modifier key to toggle the behaviour during the dragging
of nodes. I just thought I'd post this in here now case it's
useful to anyone in the mean time.

2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in
this thread there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's
Explorer view where you can see clean hierarchies of objects. You
can do it in the Tree View. You just need to enable the Object
Filter (the first button in the Tree View's tool bar). You can
also right click on the Tree View toolbar, and there are various
other options in there which can be helpful for sorting and
grouping the objects in a tree structure. Definitely worth playing
with anyway. Sorry for the misinformation before!

Cheers,
A


On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:


Thanks Andy.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of
*Andy Nicholas
*Sent:* 26 March 2017 00:37
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto
connection on demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile
enhancement request.

FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link
to this thread.

A



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Re: Latest Houdini Wrangle Masterclass

[Andy Nicholas]

It’s actually a special seed that causes the rand() function to cycle its value 
every 100 frames ;)


> On 27 Mar 2017, at 22:50, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I was waiting for ‘who at all the pies?’
>   <>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares
> Sent: 27 March 2017 22:48
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list> 
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
> Subject: Re: Latest Houdini Wrangle Masterclass
>  
> Nice seed
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 27 Mar 2017, at 22:36, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
> <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Here’s a variant that doesn’t require you to type any names, plus you get 
>> super efficient packed primitives. 
>>  
>> Basically, you just pack each set of primitives (i.e. one for each sphere, 
>> torus, etc) first, then merge them all together in a Merge SOP. Now you can 
>> just grab them as individual primitives inside VEX which is incredibly 
>> convenient. It works because each packed primitive has the @path attribute 
>> to indicate where it came from that you can use directly in the 
>> @instancepath attribute.
>>  
>> Hopefully the attached image should show up below.
>>  
>> A
>>  
>>  
>> 
>>  
>>  
>>> On 27 Mar 2017, at 18:47, Fabricio Chamon <xsiml...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:xsiml...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> hijacking the thread, while staying on topic =) :
>>>  
>>> I'd like to instance randomly between 3 objects on the resulting points of 
>>> a scatter node. Here`s my take at it:
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> now the question: while this works I don't like the idea of typing in 
>>> object names on the string array..I'd prefer something like wiring inputs 
>>> to a merge node and querying the connected nodes from that merge node from 
>>> inside attrib wrangle. Is that possible, or are there more clever ways to 
>>> accomplish the same task?
>>>  
>>> thanks!
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 2017-03-21 10:13 GMT+01:00 Fabricio Chamon <xsiml...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:xsiml...@gmail.com>>:
>>>> thanks for the link Jonathan. It is so informative! And it clearly points 
>>>> a beginner to the right direction performance-wise, as there are many ways 
>>>> to do the same thing in vex.
>>>>  
>>>> 2017-03-21 0:42 GMT+01:00 Eugene Flormata <eug...@flormata.com 
>>>> <mailto:eug...@flormata.com>>:
>>>>> so this hasn't changed much since in the 16 update? I just started some 
>>>>> tutorials on game tutors 
>>>>> and bought https://vimeo.com/195580569 <https://vimeo.com/195580569>, it 
>>>>> got into vex pretty quickly.
>>>>> coding in general is pretty outside my skillset, so I'm looking for 
>>>>> basics in houdini to pick up.
>>>>> https://www.pluralsight.com/courses/houdini-practical-math-tips 
>>>>> <https://www.pluralsight.com/courses/houdini-practical-math-tips> I even 
>>>>> bought a month of pluralsight to learn this, which I think Jordi posted 
>>>>> in a thread a while back?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm trying to find more things to learn houdini and upgrade my skillset
>>>>> thanks for the post!
>>>>>  
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 4:02 AM, Jonathan Moore 
>>>>> <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> Something for those of you that are trying to get to grips with VEX 
>>>>>> Wrangles in Houdini
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> https://vimeo.com/173658697 <https://vimeo.com/173658697>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> It’s a Jeff Wagner 2hr session so it has plenty of (valuable) 
>>>>>> digressions, and on that basis it’s one that you’ll want to watch a few 
>>>>>> times. Be sure to download the deck and example files too (I’d download 
>>>>>> the Vimeo video as well so you can setup bookmarks in VLC). Jeff has 
>>>>>&

Re: Latest Houdini Wrangle Masterclass

[Andy Nicholas]

Here’s a variant that doesn’t require you to type any names, plus you get super 
efficient packed primitives. 

Basically, you just pack each set of primitives (i.e. one for each sphere, 
torus, etc) first, then merge them all together in a Merge SOP. Now you can 
just grab them as individual primitives inside VEX which is incredibly 
convenient. It works because each packed primitive has the @path attribute to 
indicate where it came from that you can use directly in the @instancepath 
attribute.

Hopefully the attached image should show up below.

A





> On 27 Mar 2017, at 18:47, Fabricio Chamon  wrote:
> 
> hijacking the thread, while staying on topic =) :
> 
> I'd like to instance randomly between 3 objects on the resulting points of a 
> scatter node. Here`s my take at it:
> 
> 
> 
> now the question: while this works I don't like the idea of typing in object 
> names on the string array..I'd prefer something like wiring inputs to a merge 
> node and querying the connected nodes from that merge node from inside attrib 
> wrangle. Is that possible, or are there more clever ways to accomplish the 
> same task?
> 
> thanks!
> 
> 
> 2017-03-21 10:13 GMT+01:00 Fabricio Chamon  >:
> thanks for the link Jonathan. It is so informative! And it clearly points a 
> beginner to the right direction performance-wise, as there are many ways to 
> do the same thing in vex.
> 
> 2017-03-21 0:42 GMT+01:00 Eugene Flormata  >:
> so this hasn't changed much since in the 16 update? I just started some 
> tutorials on game tutors 
> and bought https://vimeo.com/195580569 , it got 
> into vex pretty quickly.
> coding in general is pretty outside my skillset, so I'm looking for basics in 
> houdini to pick up.
> https://www.pluralsight.com/courses/houdini-practical-math-tips 
>  I even 
> bought a month of pluralsight to learn this, which I think Jordi posted in a 
> thread a while back?
> 
> 
> I'm trying to find more things to learn houdini and upgrade my skillset
> thanks for the post!
> 
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 4:02 AM, Jonathan Moore  > wrote:
> Something for those of you that are trying to get to grips with VEX Wrangles 
> in Houdini
> 
>  
> 
> https://vimeo.com/173658697 
>  
> 
> It’s a Jeff Wagner 2hr session so it has plenty of (valuable) digressions, 
> and on that basis it’s one that you’ll want to watch a few times. Be sure to 
> download the deck and example files too (I’d download the Vimeo video as well 
> so you can setup bookmarks in VLC). Jeff has been with SideFX since the very 
> beginning so his webinars are always full of great insights into Houdini’s 
> mysterious ways. 
> 
>  
> 
> This was released soon after 15.5 was introduced so it’s the most up to date 
> VEX Wrangles material available from SideFX.
> 
> 
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> subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
> 
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

No problem Jonathan.

A quick update to this following discussions with SideFX:

1) I don't recall if this was mentioned in the thread earlier, but they 
mentioned that you can enable/disable the auto-connect on wires using 
CTRL+8 or in the Network View menu under Tools-> Allow Dropping Nodes on 
Wires. This doesn't work during a drag operation though, so I've gone 
back and explained the desired workflow of having a modifier key to 
toggle the behaviour during the dragging of nodes. I just thought I'd 
post this in here now case it's useful to anyone in the mean time.


2) They pointed out that I was incorrect when I said earlier in this 
thread there wasn't an equivalent view of Softimage's Explorer view 
where you can see clean hierarchies of objects. You can do it in the 
Tree View. You just need to enable the Object Filter (the first button 
in the Tree View's tool bar). You can also right click on the Tree View 
toolbar, and there are various other options in there which can be 
helpful for sorting and grouping the objects in a tree structure. 
Definitely worth playing with anyway. Sorry for the misinformation before!


Cheers,
A

On 26/03/2017 13:55, Jonathan Moore wrote:


Thanks Andy.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy 
Nicholas

*Sent:* 26 March 2017 00:37
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto
connection on demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement
request.

FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to 
this thread.


A



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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

> I also like Pauls idea of a modifier key to disable the auto connection on 
> demand. Definitely seems a worthwhile enhancement request.


FYI, I’ve submitted an RFE to Side Effects and sent them the link to this 
thread.

A

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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest
release.

I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it
sometimes close it, or it gets in the way), naming a node or
an area. was a pain, you enter the name hit "enter" and it
bounces back to its previous name. Having to retype 3 or 4
times until it catches it correctly.

The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your
network were buggy as well. Once the network surrounded it was
mostly unworkable...

So finally I just relied on colored nodes...

I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working
with a high number of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse
pointer was clicking in an unprecize manner (when trying to
pick the line between 2 nodes), sometimes creating disaster.

And by high number of nodes i mean : my final scene was having
one big obj/geo node for the animation, containing a dozen of
complete big sop trees (with for each, vop, and a few dops,
some cachefiles..).

I found that working within one single big node was better
than having to jump back and forth into exterior nodes.

But the downside is that I had to navigate (swim) in that huge
forest of slow undocumented trees.

Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16.
If someone can confirm.

On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Andy Goehler
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com');>
wrote:

Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange,
everything seemed different. But after some time and
getting into bundles the basics were mastered. What always
bugged me in Softimage was managing partitions across
passes. If there were changes you’d be hunting down all
the partitions in various passes. I’ve always wished for
something expression based. With wildcards on ROPs and
smart bundles this opened the doors of freedom. I never
worry about that anymore.

For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned.
This is not ideal, but manageable, not to mention
extremely flexible and always reflects changes. I’ve
looked into material style sheets and they are quite
powerful, but not as nice to manage from a UI perspective.
I found I’d rather manage additional objects with object
merges and their material assignments, etc. Nevertheless,
MSS can get the job done.

What I’d wish for is a graph similar to Katana, where
nodes collect the objects and lights. Additional nodes
provide material assignment and overrides. Or simply
bundles with overrides :D

I’m still putting the pieces together to file an RFE with
SESI.

Andy

On 23.03.2017, at 14:11, Andy Nicholas
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a...@andynicholas.com');>
wrote:

Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you
can override on a per point/primitive/global level if
you need to.

It was also pointed out to me the other day that the
Material SOP is capable of generating material
stylesheets for you. I'm still getting my head around
that particular functionality, but I can see it has
the potential to be very helpful in a more automated
pipeline.

A

On 23/03/2017 12:36, Jordi Bares wrote:

Indeed, no matter which software we choose we will
certainly miss Softimage overrides and passes…
Houdini offers a few approaches but none of them
is as smooth and easy as Softimage.

The best route I have round is to use
Object_Merges to do the overrides but indeed it is
not as nice… :-P

BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open some
new avenues that may be useful.

jb

On 23 Mar 2017, at 08:50, Rob Wuijster
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','r...@casema.nl');>
wrote:

@Jordi and others:

Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as
you said - some stuff is easier than others
(VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
I still try to get some workflow running where
I can easily create
Passes/

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

> Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If 
someone can confirm.


Yes, they've addressed a lot of those problems. Those shifting network 
boxes used to drive me nuts. Also, that thing where you carefully line 
up all your nodes and get all OCD about their layout, dive down a level, 
come back up, and somehow they've got misaligned. Gah! But good to see 
that that's not happening any more.


I dare say there'll still be a few gotchas (dealing with 
connecting/disconnecting nodes when the nodes are close together is a 
bit of an issue) , but I'd hope they'll be ironed out fairly quickly.



On 24/03/2017 09:45, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
Getting back to the subject of organisation, I still consider myself 
as a houdini beginner.
The thing is, it so open that you quickly import the ice science into 
vop and you get comfident enough quickly.

My experience is with the 15.5, and probably not the latest release.
I found the stiky notes not that handy ( clicking on it sometimes 
close it, or it gets in the way), naming a node or an area. was a 
pain, you enter the name hit "enter" and it bounces back to its 
previous name. Having to retype 3 or 4 times until it catches it 
correctly.
The surrounding colored area that you can draw around your network 
were buggy as well. Once the network surrounded it was mostly 
unworkable...

So finally I just relied on colored nodes...
I also found the node editor to be a bit buggy when working with a 
high number of nodes. It can get slow, and the mouse pointer was 
clicking in an unprecize manner (when trying to pick the line between 
2 nodes), sometimes creating disaster.
 And by high number of nodes i mean : my final scene was having one 
big obj/geo node for the animation, containing a dozen of complete big 
sop trees (with for each, vop, and a few dops, some cachefiles..).
I found that working within one single big node was better than having 
to jump back and forth into exterior nodes.
But the downside is that I had to navigate (swim) in that huge forest 
of slow undocumented trees.


Seems they fixed all this naming, note and coloring in the 16. If 
someone can confirm.


On Thursday, March 23, 2017, Andy Goehler 
<lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com <mailto:lists.andy.goeh...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


Regarding Passes, at first it felt really strange, everything
seemed different. But after some time and getting into bundles the
basics were mastered. What always bugged me in Softimage was
managing partitions across passes. If there were changes you’d be
hunting down all the partitions in various passes. I’ve always
wished for something expression based. With wildcards on ROPs and
smart bundles this opened the doors of freedom. I never worry
about that anymore.

For overrides I use object merges, as Jordi mentioned. This is not
ideal, but manageable, not to mention extremely flexible and
always reflects changes. I’ve looked into material style sheets
and they are quite powerful, but not as nice to manage from a UI
perspective. I found I’d rather manage additional objects with
object merges and their material assignments, etc. Nevertheless,
MSS can get the job done.

What I’d wish for is a graph similar to Katana, where nodes
collect the objects and lights. Additional nodes provide material
assignment and overrides. Or simply bundles with overrides :D

I’m still putting the pieces together to file an RFE with SESI.

Andy




On 23.03.2017, at 14:11, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','a...@andynicholas.com');>> wrote:

Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you can override
on a per point/primitive/global level if you need to.

It was also pointed out to me the other day that the Material SOP
is capable of generating material stylesheets for you. I'm still
getting my head around that particular functionality, but I can
see it has the potential to be very helpful in a more automated
pipeline.

A



On 23/03/2017 12:36, Jordi Bares wrote:

Indeed, no matter which software we choose we will certainly
miss Softimage overrides and passes… Houdini offers a few
approaches but none of them is as smooth and easy as Softimage.

The best route I have round is to use Object_Merges to do the
overrides but indeed it is not as nice… :-P

BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open some new avenues
that may be useful.

jb



On 23 Mar 2017, at 08:50, Rob Wuijster <r...@casema.nl
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','r...@casema.nl');>> wrote:

@Jordi and others:

Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as you said - some
stuff is easier than others (VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
I still try to get some workflow running where I can easily
create Passes/Partitions/overrides like I did in Softimage.

I

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep. Worth mentioning the Material SOP too where you can override on a 
per point/primitive/global level if you need to.


It was also pointed out to me the other day that the Material SOP is 
capable of generating material stylesheets for you. I'm still getting my 
head around that particular functionality, but I can see it has the 
potential to be very helpful in a more automated pipeline.


A



On 23/03/2017 12:36, Jordi Bares wrote:
Indeed, no matter which software we choose we will certainly miss 
Softimage overrides and passes… Houdini offers a few approaches but 
none of them is as smooth and easy as Softimage.


The best route I have round is to use Object_Merges to do the 
overrides but indeed it is not as nice… :-P


BTW, check Material Style Sheets… will open some new avenues that may 
be useful.


jb


On 23 Mar 2017, at 08:50, Rob Wuijster > wrote:


@Jordi and others:

Besides all the new stuff to learn, where - as you said - some stuff 
is easier than others (VEX), my main gripe is rendering.
I still try to get some workflow running where I can easily create 
Passes/Partitions/overrides like I did in Softimage.


I know it's not the same thing in H, but not being able to quickly 
override shaders on top scene level, or in bundles is a huge miss.

It often results in multiple shaders and switches.

There's also Takes, but from what I've read on it most people stay 
clear from it. And there's material stylesheets which are a tad 
over-designed and not really user friendly imho.


So any workflows people developed on rendering, after starting to use 
Houdini, are very much welcome.


cheers!

Rob

\/-\/\/
On 22-3-2017 11:36, Jordi Bares wrote:



Yet for the points mentioned, I would have an easier time agreeing with you if indeed I found "some 
things to be easier, and others not", whereas beyond what could be associated to "XSI muscle 
memory",  the sheer quantity or proportions of things that are not not just easier, but considerably 
much (much!) easier, makes it hard to just overlook and just "go with it", especially when knowing 
how things can be.

Putting aside the fact we have to move out of Softimage sooner or later 
(hardware, OS, drivers, freelancers, support, etc… will eventually force us out)

Putting aside those areas Sofimage can’t compete because it does not have the 
functionality (heavy duty FX mostly, Terrains, Game integration, etc…)

I would like to focus on those day to day scenarios you feel are not easy in 
Houdini, after all we could submit this input to Side Effects.

Is there any particular scenario you feel strongly Softimage is much more 
comfortable/easy/convenient?

:-)

jb
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

Ah, I see, understood! :)

On 22/03/2017 09:03, Jonathan Moore wrote:


Andy, I meant nothing more than that last Cheat Sheet was published 
back in 2011. I’m sure a bunch of folk would be interested to see what 
your 2017 Cheat Sheet looks like. 


*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Andy 
Nicholas

*Sent:* 21 March 2017 23:09
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

*Subject:* Re: Random Thoughts about H.

Yep! Still reading :) Here’s the link to the cheat sheet as it didn’t 
come through in your email: http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1344


I think it would be brilliant if he updated his Cheat Sheet for
these post HScript days.

They're expressions, not HScript, or am I misunderstanding what you’re 
getting at?


Anyway, if you have suggestions about what you’d find useful from an 
updated cheat sheet, then by all means let me know.


I did start looking at making an update, and made a couple of mind 
maps breaking down the most popular SOPs and expressions into 
categories. I'll can post that when I next get a chance.


A

On 21 Mar 2017, at 19:07, Jonathan Moore
<jonathan.moo...@gmail.com <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I think Andy covered off most stuff. The only thing I can
reiterate is the importance of VEX. I shared a link the other day
to the VEX masterclass with Jeff Wagner and had positive feedback
from other XSI alumni on this list. If you haven’t watched it yet,
you should. It makes sense of many of SideFX’s design decisions.

Ultimately Houdini is an operating system for 3d and becoming
comfortable with VEX and Python within Houdini are mandatory
things. SideFX might like to market Core as a replacement for XSI
but VEX in particular and Python (if you want create portable
assets) are essential ingredients in getting the most out of Houdini.

I came to Houdini with a hackers knowledge of Python scripting and
 competent Processing (which I suppose is Java) skills. Never
learnt C++ and I certainly wouldn’t classify myself as a
programmer; and I find I’m comfortable with VEX. Sure I have the
help browser opened permanently on my second browser the check my
function arguments, but I muddle along without pain most of the time.

If Andy’s still reading, I think it would be brilliant if he
updated his Cheat Sheet for these post HScript days. When I was
first learning Houdini it was a huge help. And funnily enough even
though HScript has mostly been discarded, the list of ‘essential’
SOP operators Andy listed back in 2011 are just as relevant in
2017. 

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com

<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com]*On
Behalf Of*Jason S
*Sent:*21 March 2017 18:36
*To:*Official Softimage Users Mailing
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list><softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
*Subject:*Re: Random Thoughts about H.


Hi Andy,

Thanks for the feedback!

- Can handle lots of objects or elements and a few things
became very much faster in recent versions (multi-threaded
or openCL)
   (SI  is still is king for sheer high-poly-count on
fewer objects, which includes *tons* of island transforms)


Have a look at packed primitives. You can chunk your geometry
into sections and get excellent performance there along with
deferred rendering.

For island management, then there are workflows that use the
"name" string primitive attribute to differentiate between
pieces. Some SOPs support this (see clustering and fracturing
for example).


Indeed I'm aware of packed prims, and I already agreed with you
there (was in the "Good!" section :P )



*Elements seem to be either inside OR outside, or object
level elements (where regular parenting happens) are
almost like separate scenes*


Not sure I completely understand your point. I've not had an
issue with referencing data or geometry. You can use the
Object Merge SOP to pull geometry from anywhere though, and
you can use expressions and VEX to pull info from other
objects too (although I'd generally recommend object merging
them for clarity). The convention (as you've probably seen) is
to use a Null SOP called something like "OUT_Geometry" for
example, or to use an Output node, and then reference those
from another object. That has the advantage of being ab

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

> many things are easier, others are not.


Haha! Those are very true words indeed! :)

Have to say though that the recent updates to the modelling workflow have 
really made a huge difference. I'm almost starting to feel as comfortable in 
Houdini as I did in Soft. The Polyfill SOP is probably my favourite at the 
moment :)


> On 21 Mar 2017, at 23:27, Jordi Bares  wrote:
> 
> Indeed I never managed to get fully where I wanted... as you can see VOPs was 
> missing, VEX, DOPs and so many other things but such were my limitations in 
> terms of knowledge and time.
> 
> Nevertheless I will suggest you take Andy’s comments and review them, he 
> certainly took the time to put some stuff in there that is worth keeping.
> 
> My take is, from what I saw is that you were using Houdini like me, as if it 
> was Softimage and sooner or later you will see (like I did) that it is better 
> to embrace it and just move on, many things are easier, others are not.
> 
> I hope you enjoy the ride. :-)
> jb
> 
> 
>> On 21 Mar 2017, at 23:08, Jason S  wrote:
>> 
>> Or alot of equivalence mapping was in there (which was great help BTW),
>> yet could of course not map the parts that aren't mappable 
>> (or not easily mappable without getting very technical such as for any ice 
>> related stuff)
>> 
>> Must have overlooked the Object merge bit thanks.
>> 
>>> On 03/21/17 18:41, Nono wrote:
>>> don't miss the FULL pdf from Jordy Bares that's all in there
>>> 
>>> On 21 March 2017 at 23:31, Jason S  wrote:
 Hi, 
 Indeed Object Merge can reference outputs from other nodes
 Thanks a bunch! (scraped the internet for that :) )
 -J
 
 
 
 On 03/21/17 18:22, Nono wrote:
> 
> On 21 March 2017 at 19:36, Jason S  wrote:
>> I know about merge sop, but is it possible to refer to outputs or 
>> elements located in other object level networks?
>> (or having object level items used as inputs for multiple other object 
>> level networks?)
> 
> Hi,
> You don't read it correctly, Andy spokes about "Object Merge" not 
> "Merge".
> On Houdini "Object merge" is in most case the most important node. You 
> can for example mimic softimage overrides with it ;-)
> 
> Cheers 
> 
> 
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 Softimage Mailing List.
 To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
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Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep! Still reading :) Here’s the link to the cheat sheet as it didn’t come 
through in your email: http://www.andynicholas.com/?p=1344

> I think it would be brilliant if he updated his Cheat Sheet for these post 
> HScript days.


They're expressions, not HScript, or am I misunderstanding what you’re getting 
at?

Anyway, if you have suggestions about what you’d find useful from an updated 
cheat sheet, then by all means let me know. 

I did start looking at making an update, and made a couple of mind maps 
breaking down the most popular SOPs and expressions into categories. I'll can 
post that when I next get a chance.

A



> On 21 Mar 2017, at 19:07, Jonathan Moore  wrote:
> 
> I think Andy covered off most stuff. The only thing I can reiterate is the 
> importance of VEX. I shared a link the other day to the VEX masterclass with 
> Jeff Wagner and had positive feedback from other XSI alumni on this list. If 
> you haven’t watched it yet, you should. It makes sense of many of SideFX’s 
> design decisions.
>  
> Ultimately Houdini is an operating system for 3d and becoming comfortable 
> with VEX and Python within Houdini are mandatory things. SideFX might like to 
> market Core as a replacement for XSI but VEX in particular and Python (if you 
> want create portable assets) are essential ingredients in getting the most 
> out of Houdini.
>  
> I came to Houdini with a hackers knowledge of Python scripting and  competent 
> Processing (which I suppose is Java) skills. Never learnt C++ and I certainly 
> wouldn’t classify myself as a programmer; and I find I’m comfortable with 
> VEX. Sure I have the help browser opened permanently on my second browser the 
> check my function arguments, but I muddle along without pain most of the time.
>  
> If Andy’s still reading, I think it would be brilliant if he updated his 
> Cheat Sheet for these post HScript days. When I was first learning Houdini it 
> was a huge help. And funnily enough even though HScript has mostly been 
> discarded, the list of ‘essential’ SOP operators Andy listed back in 2011 are 
> just as relevant in 2017.   <>
>  
>  
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>  
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Jason S
> Sent: 21 March 2017 18:36
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
>   >
> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts about H.
>  
> 
> Hi Andy,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
>>> - Can handle lots of objects or elements and a few things became very much 
>>> faster in recent versions (multi-threaded or openCL)
>>>(SI  is still is king for sheer high-poly-count on fewer objects, which 
>>> includes *tons* of island transforms)
>> 
>> Have a look at packed primitives. You can chunk your geometry into sections 
>> and get excellent performance there along with deferred rendering.
>> 
>> For island management, then there are workflows that use the "name" string 
>> primitive attribute to differentiate between pieces. Some SOPs support this 
>> (see clustering and fracturing for example).
>> 
> 
> Indeed I'm aware of packed prims, and I already agreed with you there (was in 
> the "Good!" section :P )
> 
> 
>>> Elements seem to be either inside OR outside, or object level elements 
>>> (where regular parenting happens) are almost like separate scenes
>> 
>> Not sure I completely understand your point. I've not had an issue with 
>> referencing data or geometry. You can use the Object Merge SOP to pull 
>> geometry from anywhere though, and you can use expressions and VEX to pull 
>> info from other objects too (although I'd generally recommend object merging 
>> them for clarity). The convention (as you've probably seen) is to use a Null 
>> SOP called something like "OUT_Geometry" for example, or to use an Output 
>> node, and then reference those from another object. That has the advantage 
>> of being able to insert more nodes before the referenced node, so you don't 
>> have to update all your references.
>> 
> 
> I know about merge sop, but is it possible to refer to outputs or elements 
> located in other object level networks?
> (or having object level items used as inputs for multiple other object level 
> networks?)
> 
> 
>>> - ICE equivalence  (personally my biggest gripe)
>>> Wished for one thing, that Vop nets allowed for subnetworks with custom 
>>> port names, 
>> 
>> This is possible, but you need to create a digital asset to do it. Kinda 
>> painful as a workflow, but it is there.
>> 
>> 
>>> If that's  at-all realistic, as it would probably involve very systemic 
>>> changes, like how/when compilation happens (?)
>>> (to allow time dependancy  inside vops, but I don't know)
>> 
>> You 

Re: Random Thoughts about H.

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Jason,
That's a good list. My thoughts and suggestions on your issues below:

**- Can handle lots of objects or elements and a few things became 
very much faster in recent versions (multi-threaded or openCL)
   (SI  is still is king for sheer high-poly-count on fewer objects, 
which includes *tons* of island transforms)


Have a look at packed primitives. You can chunk your geometry into 
sections and get excellent performance there along with deferred rendering.


For island management, then there are workflows that use the "name" 
string primitive attribute to differentiate between pieces. Some SOPs 
support this (see clustering and fracturing for example).



*Passes*
- there's probably 3 or more ways to set-up 'passes', and all of them 
are comparatively excruciating.


Yep. That's a fair comment. Most people have their own preferred method. 
It's generally recommend staying away from Takes as a technique to 
create passes though, apart from when absolutely necessary.



*- Help!*
- Can be Really bad for browsing reference sections
- Alphabetically sorted  flat list of all nodes, all 
expression functions or all Vex functions ...
  For example ::   the   'Inflate', 'Instance', 'IsoOffset'  
nodes, all concern very different things.


Yes, the docs really need a lot of work still IMHO and have done for a 
while. The documentation for DOPs in particular frequently make me want 
to scream at the lack of clarity to what they do and how they're 
supposed to be used. It is majorly lacking in context and clear examples.


   - Perhaps there is something up with my setup, but help views 
seemed very buggy
 and (sometimes not always) very slow especially when always 
having it open.


Yes, definitely slow. Would highly recommend opening it in an external 
browser, and making a bookmark for the local documentation. You'll need 
to launch Houdini's help first before the external browser so that it 
starts the http service. The port number will vary for each Houdini 
version, but the local URL will be something like 
http://127.0.0.1:48626/_index


The help does crash regularly (SideFX know about this, and are working 
on a fix), so worth bookmarking the online documentation too. 
http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/




- *Scene item Tree list *(outliner/Explorer) seems somewhat basic,
Network view is great, but tree lists can be much more optimal for 
overviewing hierarchies
and unless I missed a preference(?) H tree view is a flat list of 
all object level items without parenting hierarchy representation.


There are various tree views that can appear for selecting objects, etc. 
but the main tree view shows all the hierarchy of operators at every 
level. It doesn't show object parenting hierarchies (unless you nest 
them in subnet works that is). There's no view to show object 
hierarchies (unless I've missed something).



*- Inconsistent highlighting and/or viewport element display*


Yep, it can get quite confusing, and I think Houdini gets quite confused 
too about the UI state sometimes. Couple of things to remember: 1) if in 
doubt hit Escape a few times to get back to a known state. 2) Pressing 
and holding space will get you into Viewport mode (a bit like holding S 
down in Softimage). So, for example: pressing and holding Space then 
pressing "5" will always move you to UV view, regardless of what active 
tool you have. Same goes for pressing Space + "f", "g", or "h".



*Elements seem to be either inside OR outside, or object level 
elements (where regular parenting happens) are almost like separate 
scenes*


Not sure I completely understand your point. I've not had an issue with 
referencing data or geometry. You can use the Object Merge SOP to pull 
geometry from anywhere though, and you can use expressions and VEX to 
pull info from other objects too (although I'd generally recommend 
object merging them for clarity). The convention (as you've probably 
seen) is to use a Null SOP called something like "OUT_Geometry" for 
example, or to use an Output node, and then reference those from another 
object. That has the advantage of being able to insert more nodes before 
the referenced node, so you don't have to update all your references.




*Performance*


Yep, cloth is frustratingly slow compared to Syflex, I'm no expert, but 
I'd say that it's more flexible in terms of what you can do with it in 
Houdini.



*- ICE**equivalence* (personally my biggest gripe)
Wished for one thing, that Vop nets allowed for subnetworks with 
custom port names,


This is possible, but you need to create a digital asset to do it. Kinda 
painful as a workflow, but it is there.


If that's  at-all realistic, as it would probably involve very 
systemic changes, like how/when compilation happens (?)

(to allow time dependancy  inside vops, but I don't know)


You can have time dependancy inside VOPs, you just need to use the Time 
input from global variables, rather than use $FF inside 

Re: ramp up motion blur

[Andy Nicholas]

How about a OnBeginFrame event in your workgroup and set the values from 
there? Just make sure you do a pattern match for your scene filename so 
it doesn't affect everyone else.

A

On 20/03/2017 17:42, Chris Marshall wrote:
If it was a one-off, I'd just render each of the 10 frames separately 
with different settings. it's just a slight pain. Maybe 10 passes 
could do it.

Thanks


On 20 March 2017 at 17:40, patrick nethercoat 
> wrote:


Hi Chris,
Brute force with separate passes is the first thing to come to
mind. Can't think of a smart way.

On 20 March 2017 at 17:34, Chris Marshall
> wrote:

Hi there,
I have a motion graphic animation which suddenly speeds up
over the last 30 frames. So I'd like to not have motion blur
switched on up to that point, then ramp it in over eg 10
frames. There's no animation divot on the motion blur
property, so I was wondering if anyone knows of a solution to
this?
Thanks
Chris


-- 
Chris Marshall

Mint Motion Limited
029 20 37 27 57
07730 533 115
www.mintmotion.co.uk 
www.dot3d.com 



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029 20 37 27 57
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www.mintmotion.co.uk 
www.dot3d.com 




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Re: Workgroup equivilent for Maya

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Darren,
I would highly recommend looking into Rez as it'll let you configure 
your environment on a per project (or per anything) basis:


   https://github.com/nerdvegas/rez

You can use it to define which project uses which plugins and takes care 
of any complex interdependencies (e.g. v1.5 of plugin works with Maya 
2015, but not v1.6).


There's quite a bit of a learning curve if you've not done anything like 
this before, but start by keeping it simple and go from there.


A


On 09/03/2017 11:21, Darren Macpherson wrote:

Hi all,

Its been awhile since I was around these parts. I know this has been 
covered a fair amount and I have been going through previous posts and 
general looking around on line, so sorry if there's a bit of overlap 
and noise.


We're looking to give Maya a try on a shot with a current project. I 
was hoping some of you might have some advice when it comes to working 
with maya on a project server. Right now my biggest question is how 
people are structuring there maya workflow when it comes to plugins or 
setting up the equivalent of a workgroup for maya.


We would prefer to work with absolute paths (//servername/projects/) 
if possible. Currently we create a workgroup per project in the 
relevant project folder. That way the workgroup for that project looks 
at all the relevant addons, keeps the correct addon version for the 
project and helps with keeping everything consolidated when the 
project is backed up. Has anyone done something similar with maya 
where a project only points to the plugins that are relevant to the 
project?


I might have a few more questions that I think of as I go along but 
any advice or help would be appreciated.


Cheers

Darren


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Re: houdini question (and where to ask)

[Andy Nicholas]

That's good to know, thanks :)

On 07/03/2017 10:06, Christopher Crouzet wrote:
I naively compared the AttribPromote with an AttribWrangle in detail 
mode, and the results were much (much) faster with the AttribPromote, 
so I assume it is multi-threaded and would be hard to beat with any 
sort of wrangle trickery.


I'm still stuck with H13 so I didn't know about the numbers mode, 
that's neat!



On 7 March 2017 at 16:43, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:



Andy, the O(N) thing got me thinking and realized that instead of
running the attrib wrangle in detail mode, which uses only a
single thread, it'd be possible to generate say 4 points and, in
a point wrangle, let each of these points process 1/4th of the
array, thus effectively running the same logic on 4 threads!
Another attrib wrangle is then needed in post to sum up the
result from each point. Well, in all honesty I don't think
there'll ever be a use case for it :)


Yes absolutely! Definitely a good approach if you're after
performance. It'd be interesting to do a comparison between that
and an Attribute Promote SOP to see which is faster. I suspect
(i.e. hope) the Attribute Promote SOP is multithreaded, so
probably no major advantage.

BTW, you don't even need to generate the 4 points as you've got
the Run Over "Numbers" mode which will do the same. You can save
the result into a detail array attribute and analyse it in a
Detail Wrangle. Just takes a bit more management to set it up.




On 07/03/2017 01:35, Christopher Crouzet wrote:

Wow, I shouldn't have wrote that late last night, I completely
mixed things up in my previous post, sorry!

I'll try again! With a ramp, you have the source (input) values
on the X axis, and the target (output) values on the Y axis. If
either your source or target values aren't in the range [0, 1],
you can remap them using a simple float parameter (to use as a
simple multiplier if your desired lower bound is 0), or a float2
parameter to precisely control the desired range.

It seems to be a standard practice in Houdini since they use it
for some built-in nodes, such as the Pyro SHOP.

Andy, the O(N) thing got me thinking and realized that instead of
running the attrib wrangle in detail mode, which uses only a
single thread, it'd be possible to generate say 4 points and, in
a point wrangle, let each of these points process 1/4th of the
array, thus effectively running the same logic on 4 threads!
Another attrib wrangle is then needed in post to sum up the
result from each point. Well, in all honesty I don't think
there'll ever be a use case for it :)


On 7 March 2017 at 01:14, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com
<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Ok we agree.


On Monday, March 6, 2017, Jonathan Moore
<jonathan.moo...@gmail.com
<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

As far as I understood it Oliver, the spline version of
the Houdini Ramp only operates in the zero to one range.
You re-fit the values pre/post/ or both to suite your needs.

I get that this doesn’t match the UX of FCurves in XSI,
but I’ve always understood Ramp’s in Houdini to be more
of a lower level discrete element in visual programing terms.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On
Behalf Of *Olivier Jeannel
*Sent:* 06 March 2017 17:31
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: houdini question (and where to ask)

Not sure I get it Christopher (not in front of H)

Does your trick actualy change the graph visualy ?

In short, can I see the negative x & y values ?

On Monday, March 6, 2017, Christopher Crouzet
<christopher.crou...@gmail.com> wrote:

Indeed, which is why I mentioned the “detail” mode
which brings you back to O(N). Not saying that one
approach is better than the other though, only that
    it is possible.

On 7 March 2017 at 00:12, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:

Yep it is possible, but you wouldn't want to do
it because each calculation of the maximum value
would be running across N points to calculate
that. That'd make it an O(N^2) operation, albeit
spread over mult

Re: houdini question (and where to ask)

[Andy Nicholas]

Andy, the O(N) thing got me thinking and realized that instead of 
running the attrib wrangle in detail mode, which uses only a single 
thread, it'd be possible to generate say 4 points and, in a point 
wrangle, let each of these points process 1/4th of the array, thus 
effectively running the same logic on 4 threads! Another attrib 
wrangle is then needed in post to sum up the result from each point. 
Well, in all honesty I don't think there'll ever be a use case for it :)


Yes absolutely! Definitely a good approach if you're after performance. 
It'd be interesting to do a comparison between that and an Attribute 
Promote SOP to see which is faster. I suspect (i.e. hope) the Attribute 
Promote SOP is multithreaded, so probably no major advantage.


BTW, you don't even need to generate the 4 points as you've got the Run 
Over "Numbers" mode which will do the same. You can save the result into 
a detail array attribute and analyse it in a Detail Wrangle. Just takes 
a bit more management to set it up.




On 07/03/2017 01:35, Christopher Crouzet wrote:
Wow, I shouldn't have wrote that late last night, I completely mixed 
things up in my previous post, sorry!


I'll try again! With a ramp, you have the source (input) values on the 
X axis, and the target (output) values on the Y axis. If either your 
source or target values aren't in the range [0, 1], you can remap them 
using a simple float parameter (to use as a simple multiplier if your 
desired lower bound is 0), or a float2 parameter to precisely control 
the desired range.


It seems to be a standard practice in Houdini since they use it for 
some built-in nodes, such as the Pyro SHOP.


Andy, the O(N) thing got me thinking and realized that instead of 
running the attrib wrangle in detail mode, which uses only a single 
thread, it'd be possible to generate say 4 points and, in a point 
wrangle, let each of these points process 1/4th of the array, thus 
effectively running the same logic on 4 threads! Another attrib 
wrangle is then needed in post to sum up the result from each point. 
Well, in all honesty I don't think there'll ever be a use case for it :)



On 7 March 2017 at 01:14, Olivier Jeannel <facialdel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Ok we agree.


On Monday, March 6, 2017, Jonathan Moore
<jonathan.moo...@gmail.com <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

As far as I understood it Oliver, the spline version of the
Houdini Ramp only operates in the zero to one range. You
re-fit the values pre/post/ or both to suite your needs.

I get that this doesn’t match the UX of FCurves in XSI, but
I’ve always understood Ramp’s in Houdini to be more of a lower
level discrete element in visual programing terms.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of
*Olivier Jeannel
*Sent:* 06 March 2017 17:31
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: houdini question (and where to ask)

Not sure I get it Christopher (not in front of H)

Does your trick actualy change the graph visualy ?

In short, can I see the negative x & y values ?

On Monday, March 6, 2017, Christopher Crouzet
<christopher.crou...@gmail.com> wrote:

Indeed, which is why I mentioned the “detail” mode which
brings you back to O(N). Not saying that one approach is
better than the other though, only that it is possible.

On 7 March 2017 at 00:12, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com> wrote:

Yep it is possible, but you wouldn't want to do it
because each calculation of the maximum value would be
running across N points to calculate that. That'd make
it an O(N^2) operation, albeit spread over multiple
threads.

It might seem like a pain to have to do this in
advance using an Attribute Promote, but by doing so,
it's actually forcing you to work in a more efficient
way. Go with it ;)



On 06/03/2017 16:32, Christopher Crouzet wrote:

It /is/ possible to retrieve the maximum value in
a VOP since nothing stops anyone from manually
iterating through all the points of the geometry.
This kind of operation might be more suited in
“detail” mode though.

Also, having the ramp normalized to the [0, 1]
range in both the X and Y axis is usually
“workarounded” by add

Re: houdini question (and where to ask)

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep, I understood what you were getting at, I just wanted to make it 
clear for those who are still learning all this :)


On 06/03/2017 17:20, Christopher Crouzet wrote:
Indeed, which is why I mentioned the “detail” mode which brings you 
back to O(N). Not saying that one approach is better than the other 
though, only that it is possible.



On 7 March 2017 at 00:12, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Yep it is possible, but you wouldn't want to do it because each
calculation of the maximum value would be running across N points
to calculate that. That'd make it an O(N^2) operation, albeit
spread over multiple threads.

It might seem like a pain to have to do this in advance using an
Attribute Promote, but by doing so, it's actually forcing you to
work in a more efficient way. Go with it ;)



On 06/03/2017 16:32, Christopher Crouzet wrote:

It /is/ possible to retrieve the maximum value in a VOP since
nothing stops anyone from manually iterating through all the
points of the geometry. This kind of operation might be more
suited in “detail” mode though.

Also, having the ramp normalized to the [0, 1] range in both the
X and Y axis is usually “workarounded” by adding a float
parameter for the amplitude (Y axis) that is used as a global
multiplier (making later tweakings convenient!), and a float2
parameter for the target range (X axis) that is then remapped
using `fit("my_ramp", 0.0, 1.0, range_min, range_max)` (which is
also convenient for later tweakings!).

Now, if you really want to have an actual FCurve, then just
create a simple float parameter, add all the keys however you
want, then query it in using `chf("my_param",
the_time_in_seconds)` in VEX/VOP, or using the equivalent expression.


On 6 March 2017 at 23:29, Jonathan Moore
<jonathan.moo...@gmail.com <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Fabricio ,

The Attribute Promote help page has approx 15 examples you
can load. Hopefully you might find something within the
examples to inspires a solution.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf
Of *Olivier Jeannel
*Sent:* 06 March 2017 15:56
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>


*Subject:* Re: houdini question (and where to ask)

You can't get the "get maximum in set" when inside a vop.

But, you get those options with the promote attribute sop.


On Monday, March 6, 2017, Oscar Juarez
<tridi.animei...@gmail.com
<mailto:tridi.animei...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I would like to be proven wrong, but that would be the
way, I mean in your second pointvop you don't need to add
another noise, your noise is already saved in an
attribute, when you promote just check off delete
original and you can access the same noise. Also noises
have specific output ranges, they come in the
documentation, so you can always add a fit node to change
your range to what you need, in the geometry spreadsheet
you can also sort by value so you can see max and min.

If you press X with your mouse over the noise output it
will add a visualization node, you can visualize on the
viewport or in the geometry spreadsheet the values. I
know its not the same but as far as I know their is no
way to do the same as the get maximum in set node in a
vopsop context.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Fabricio Chamon
<xsiml...@gmail.com> wrote:

thanks everyone. The ramp parameter kind of works but
as you say, is not that user friendly and does not
show the points below 0. (that's ok, but I wonder if
it is possible to write a custom widget in houdini)

anyway, the thing I could not get right just yet is
that sort of "get maximum in set" thing. Sorry for
using ICE language, I'm trying to be open minded
here, so please tell me if that`s not the correct
mindset.

so on this graph:

Imagem inline 1

...how could I get the maximum value of the output
noise node and co

Re: houdini question (and where to ask)

[Andy Nicholas]

There's no difference between the Attribute VOP and Point VOP, but it 
can be handy to express intention to other users between modifying 
points, versus attributes in general.

On 06/03/2017 17:12, Gerbrand Nel wrote:
> On that subject; What is the real difference between using a attrib vop,
> and a point vop?
> I always just use the attrib vop, but mostly because I have no idea what
> the difference is?
> G
> On 2017/03/06 6:32 PM, Christopher Crouzet wrote:
>> This kind of operation might be more suited in “detail” mode though.
>
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Re: houdini question (and where to ask)

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep it is possible, but you wouldn't want to do it because each 
calculation of the maximum value would be running across N points to 
calculate that. That'd make it an O(N^2) operation, albeit spread over 
multiple threads.


It might seem like a pain to have to do this in advance using an 
Attribute Promote, but by doing so, it's actually forcing you to work in 
a more efficient way. Go with it ;)



On 06/03/2017 16:32, Christopher Crouzet wrote:
It /is/ possible to retrieve the maximum value in a VOP since nothing 
stops anyone from manually iterating through all the points of the 
geometry. This kind of operation might be more suited in “detail” mode 
though.


Also, having the ramp normalized to the [0, 1] range in both the X and 
Y axis is usually “workarounded” by adding a float parameter for the 
amplitude (Y axis) that is used as a global multiplier (making later 
tweakings convenient!), and a float2 parameter for the target range (X 
axis) that is then remapped using `fit("my_ramp", 0.0, 1.0, range_min, 
range_max)` (which is also convenient for later tweakings!).


Now, if you really want to have an actual FCurve, then just create a 
simple float parameter, add all the keys however you want, then query 
it in using `chf("my_param", the_time_in_seconds)` in VEX/VOP, or 
using the equivalent expression.



On 6 March 2017 at 23:29, Jonathan Moore > wrote:


Fabricio ,

The Attribute Promote help page has approx 15 examples you can
load. Hopefully you might find something within the examples to
inspires a solution.

*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com

[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
] *On Behalf Of
*Olivier Jeannel
*Sent:* 06 March 2017 15:56
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

>


*Subject:* Re: houdini question (and where to ask)

You can't get the "get maximum in set" when inside a vop.

But, you get those options with the promote attribute sop.


On Monday, March 6, 2017, Oscar Juarez > wrote:

I would like to be proven wrong, but that would be the way, I
mean in your second pointvop you don't need to add another
noise, your noise is already saved in an attribute, when you
promote just check off delete original and you can access the
same noise. Also noises have specific output ranges, they come
in the documentation, so you can always add a fit node to
change your range to what you need, in the geometry
spreadsheet you can also sort by value so you can see max and
min.

If you press X with your mouse over the noise output it will
add a visualization node, you can visualize on the viewport or
in the geometry spreadsheet the values. I know its not the
same but as far as I know their is no way to do the same as
the get maximum in set node in a vopsop context.

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Fabricio Chamon
 wrote:

thanks everyone. The ramp parameter kind of works but as
you say, is not that user friendly and does not show the
points below 0. (that's ok, but I wonder if it is possible
to write a custom widget in houdini)

anyway, the thing I could not get right just yet is that
sort of "get maximum in set" thing. Sorry for using ICE
language, I'm trying to be open minded here, so please
tell me if that`s not the correct mindset.

so on this graph:

Imagem inline 1

...how could I get the maximum value of the output noise
node and compare to a single point output of the same node?

From what I can tell, I'd have to:

1- create this pointvop node with a turbnoise, then store
the output noise into an attribute (via bindexport?)

2- up one level -> drop an attrib promote (detail), set to
maximum

3- drop another pointvop node with another noise node
inside (same parameters) and compare the result noise to
that found on the atrib promote node??

I'm 99% sure this is totally wrong...how would you go
about that single task specifically?

and finally, thanks for the suggestions on houdini forums
and discord. will try both (although I pretty much like
this list =) )

2017-03-06 15:17 GMT+01:00 gareth bell
:

Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way

[Andy Nicholas]

> I've found working with Wrangles to be easier

That's great to hear! Yep, as you've obviously found for yourself, 
there's really nothing to be intimidated by. Most people are aware of 
the various concepts intuitively, it's just that I've noticed the syntax 
can scare people off.


> However I had wondered whether splitting things up into lots of 
separate Wrangles

> was less efficient programmatically. Do you have a view on this Andy?

No, I've not noticed any performance hit, but I've not tried profiling it.

Each time you do put a Wrangle of some sort down, Houdini will generally 
need to create a new copy in memory of the geometry so that you're able 
to write your attributes to the new version of the data. But that 
happens with most nodes I would have thought, so minimising the number 
of nodes is generally a good idea. It would only need one copy in memory 
each time though, so there should be efficiency of re-use. Kind of like 
a double buffering system where it swaps the buffer each time. The new 
SOP compiling feature (http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/model/compile) 
would in theory limit any overhead by combining all the compilable nodes 
before running.


Anyway, these are all just educated guesses based on my understanding of 
the mechanics of Houdini, so take with a pinch of salt!


From a stylistic point of view, I much prefer to seperate VEX code into 
separate Wrangle nodes so that each node does *one* thing only. It makes 
it more robust and easier to manipulate and debug. It's exactly 
analogous to coding functions. Big functions that do a lot of things are 
generally nasty.


I also find that some operations need to be split, for any/all of the 
following reasons:
* For architectural/re-use reasons. E.g. An "initialisation" 
Wrangle, a "loop operation" Wrangle, and a "tidy up" Wrangle.
* If I've adjusted the geometry (e.g. by adding points) and now I 
need to iterate over all the points again including the new ones.
* If I need to do another operation but looping over a different 
entity e.g. a per-point wrangle followed by per-primitive or detail 
operation.


A


On 02/03/2017 15:33, Jonathan Moore wrote:


Disadvantages - If someone else can't code and needs to take over
the scene, then they're going to have difficulties if they need to
fix/change things in an individual Point Wrangle... 



Funnily enough I don't consider myself a programmer. Before Houdini I 
generally hacked around with scripts but I'd never attempted anything 
C like.


I've found working with Wrangles to be easier than my preconceptions 
led me to fear. I can't say that I'm overly ambitions with VEX but the 
motivation of multithreaded optimisations keeps me pushing forward. 
Plus lots of bespoke reusable 'subroutines' helps me compartmentalise 
VEX in a very digestible manner.


However I had wondered whether splitting things up into lots of 
separate Wrangles was less efficient programmatically. Do you have a 
view on this Andy?


On 2 March 2017 at 15:08, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Heh! Yep, I know exactly what you mean. It's usually a lot faster
to write the logic in VEX compared to creating a spaghetti network
of group & attribute manipulation to get what you want. The new
compilation system for SOPs may help slightly, but it's still a
million times faster to prototype and adjust in VEX.

It's worth mentioning that after a job finished last year, I had a
look back through the scene. The project involved a lot of
creation and manipulation of trail geometry. I'd say that easily
95% of the nodes were Point Wrangles.

Benefits:
* Super fast and automatically multithreaded
* Each node's function is completely customisable (unlike
built in nodes)
* Easy to read and understand intention (compared to the
equivalent node network)
* Modularised and reusable code

Disadvantages:
* If someone else can't code and needs to take over the scene,
then they're going to have difficulties if they need to fix/change
things in an individual Point Wrangle

I'm sure there are others plusses and minusses, but that single
disadvantage can easily be negotiated if you make sure that you
don't write PointWrangles with hundreds of lines of code, and
force yourself to break them up into smaller reusuable components
- like subroutines. That way, they can be treated in the same way
as any other standard Houdini SOP. If someone else comes in and
doesn't like VEX, then it's granular enough not to get in the way.

So personally I'm going to keep with VEX, as I can't find a good
reason to stop ;)

A



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Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way

[Andy Nicholas]

Heh! Yep, I know exactly what you mean. It's usually a lot faster to 
write the logic in VEX compared to creating a spaghetti network of group 
& attribute manipulation to get what you want. The new compilation 
system for SOPs may help slightly, but it's still a million times faster 
to prototype and adjust in VEX.


It's worth mentioning that after a job finished last year, I had a look 
back through the scene. The project involved a lot of creation and 
manipulation of trail geometry. I'd say that easily 95% of the nodes 
were Point Wrangles.


Benefits:
* Super fast and automatically multithreaded
* Each node's function is completely customisable (unlike built in 
nodes)
* Easy to read and understand intention (compared to the equivalent 
node network)

* Modularised and reusable code

Disadvantages:
* If someone else can't code and needs to take over the scene, then 
they're going to have difficulties if they need to fix/change things in 
an individual Point Wrangle


I'm sure there are others plusses and minusses, but that single 
disadvantage can easily be negotiated if you make sure that you don't 
write PointWrangles with hundreds of lines of code, and force yourself 
to break them up into smaller reusuable components - like subroutines. 
That way, they can be treated in the same way as any other standard 
Houdini SOP. If someone else comes in and doesn't like VEX, then it's 
granular enough not to get in the way.


So personally I'm going to keep with VEX, as I can't find a good reason 
to stop ;)


A


On 02/03/2017 14:39, Tim Bolland wrote:


That's really helpful Andy, and I'm liking the nod to strand arrays on 
points. Since starting to learn Houdini I feel I'm spending most of 
the time in Vex, this isn't a bad thing but I'm constantly wondering 
if I should be trying to do things via VEX/VOPs or by the prebuilt 
nodes. I guess there is no hard answer to this, my assumption is 
embracing a Vex workflow will allow you to customize more down the line.



@Jonathan

Thank you, I didn't know that and I'll try it out. For something like 
Andy's example I would expect to solve the trails, but for something 
like a solid mass of non-animating strands I try to keep things in the 
modelling stack (to borrow an XSI term  ).



Cheers!

Tim


*From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Andy Nicholas 
<a...@andynicholas.com>

*Sent:* 02 March 2017 14:12
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

*Subject:* Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way
Hi Tim,
Here's a VEX example:
http://www.andynicholas.com/download/vex_trail_example.hip

I've kept it super simple to make it easy to expand on. It should be a 
great way to get familiar with VEX too.


Let me know if you have any questions.

A


On 02/03/2017 13:34, Tim Bolland wrote:


Thank you! Really cool :)



*From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Christopher 
Crouzet <christopher.crou...@gmail.com>

*Sent:* 02 March 2017 13:25
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

*Subject:* Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way
If it can help, here's a basic scene showing one common approach for 
making strands: https://filebin.net/6ml27y3atb6qd7iq 
<https://filebin.net/6ml27y3atb6qd7iq>



On 2 March 2017 at 20:17, Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk 
<mailto:tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk>> wrote:


Thank you Andy that's a really helpful summation, I'm going to
give it a go :)




*From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>> on behalf of
Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>>
*Sent:* 02 March 2017 13:12

*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way


Just to confirm how I'm thinking about this, a strand in Houdini
is typically made up of point positions, not points with arrays
as attributes. You can manually add an attribute to each point
position to say which strand it's part of, there's a node that
generates lines that will then understand this?


What I'm saying is that's something you can implement yourself.
There are no nodes in Houdini that understand a point with a
vector array is a strand, and no shaders that will do that
automatically e

Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Tim,
Here's a VEX example:
http://www.andynicholas.com/download/vex_trail_example.hip

I've kept it super simple to make it easy to expand on. It should be a 
great way to get familiar with VEX too.


Let me know if you have any questions.

A


On 02/03/2017 13:34, Tim Bolland wrote:


Thank you! Really cool :)



*From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Christopher 
Crouzet <christopher.crou...@gmail.com>

*Sent:* 02 March 2017 13:25
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

*Subject:* Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way
If it can help, here's a basic scene showing one common approach for 
making strands: https://filebin.net/6ml27y3atb6qd7iq 
<https://filebin.net/6ml27y3atb6qd7iq>



On 2 March 2017 at 20:17, Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk 
<mailto:tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk>> wrote:


Thank you Andy that's a really helpful summation, I'm going to
give it a go :)




*From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>> on behalf of
Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>>
*Sent:* 02 March 2017 13:12

*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way


Just to confirm how I'm thinking about this, a strand in Houdini
is typically made up of point positions, not points with arrays
as attributes. You can manually add an attribute to each point
position to say which strand it's part of, there's a node that
generates lines that will then understand this?


What I'm saying is that's something you can implement yourself.
There are no nodes in Houdini that understand a point with a
vector array is a strand, and no shaders that will do that
automatically either. Again, you can build that yourself if you
like, but it's quite advanced if you're going to be delving into
procedural geometry shaders.


Otherwise you can create polyline primitives and feed point IDs
into it. This will generate a polygon line (polyline) between the
vertices in the primitive, and in some ways this is just like the
point[pointarray] technique.


Yep. A polyline is nothing special. Just an unclosed polygon. As
others have pointed out, you can apply attributes to the points to
set things like width and color. Or you can use something like the
PolyWire SOP to generate your own rendertime geometry.


The key is how do you create these point clusters and the order.
In ICE I would make strands using a build linearly interpolated
array with two vectors feeding into it. I guess I could try and
recreate this using vex/vops, and maybe that's what I'm after, I
just need to find a way to manipulate all these points in the
right order.


Easiest way (assuming you already have some animated points) is to
use the Trail SOP with it set to "Connect as Polygons", turn
"Close rows" off, and set "Trail Length" to something like 10.
Next stop after that is to take a look at the Resample SOP.
Especially the "Treat Polygons As" parameter, as that'll let you
create interpolated shapes to your trails which is kind handy.

A




On 02/03/2017 12:58, Tim Bolland wrote:


That's a good point Andy, and in my mind this would make the most
sense! But like you say maybe not the most supported.


Just to confirm how I'm thinking about this, a strand in Houdini
is typically made up of point positions, not points with arrays
as attributes. You can manually add an attribute to each point
position to say which strand it's part of, there's a node that
generates lines that will then understand this?


Otherwise you can create polyline primitives and feed point IDs
into it. This will generate a polygon line (polyline) between the
vertices in the primitive, and in some ways this is just like the
point[pointarray] technique.


The key is how do you create these point clusters and the order.
In ICE I would make strands using a build linearly interpolated
array with two vectors feeding into it. I guess I could try and
recreate this using vex/vops, and maybe that's what I'm after, I
just need to find a way to manipulate all these points in the
right order.

I'm rambling a bit here, but hopefully getting somewhere!

Cheers,

Tim

-

Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way

[Andy Nicholas]

Just to confirm how I'm thinking about this, a strand in Houdini is 
typically made up of point positions, not points with arrays as 
attributes. You can manually add an attribute to each point position 
to say which strand it's part of, there's a node that generates lines 
that will then understand this?


What I'm saying is that's something you can implement yourself. There 
are no nodes in Houdini that understand a point with a vector array is a 
strand, and no shaders that will do that automatically either. Again, 
you can build that yourself if you like, but it's quite advanced if 
you're going to be delving into procedural geometry shaders.


Otherwise you can create polyline primitives and feed point IDs into 
it. This will generate a polygon line (polyline) between the vertices 
in the primitive, and in some ways this is just like the 
point[pointarray] technique.


Yep. A polyline is nothing special. Just an unclosed polygon. As others 
have pointed out, you can apply attributes to the points to set things 
like width and color. Or you can use something like the PolyWire SOP to 
generate your own rendertime geometry.


The key is how do you create these point clusters and the order. In 
ICE I would make strands using a build linearly interpolated array 
with two vectors feeding into it. I guess I could try and recreate 
this using vex/vops, and maybe that's what I'm after, I just need to 
find a way to manipulate all these points in the right order.


Easiest way (assuming you already have some animated points) is to use 
the Trail SOP with it set to "Connect as Polygons", turn "Close rows" 
off, and set "Trail Length" to something like 10. Next stop after that 
is to take a look at the Resample SOP. Especially the "Treat Polygons 
As" parameter, as that'll let you create interpolated shapes to your 
trails which is kind handy.


A




On 02/03/2017 12:58, Tim Bolland wrote:


That's a good point Andy, and in my mind this would make the most 
sense! But like you say maybe not the most supported.



Just to confirm how I'm thinking about this, a strand in Houdini is 
typically made up of point positions, not points with arrays as 
attributes. You can manually add an attribute to each point position 
to say which strand it's part of, there's a node that generates lines 
that will then understand this?



Otherwise you can create polyline primitives and feed point IDs into 
it. This will generate a polygon line (polyline) between the vertices 
in the primitive, and in some ways this is just like the 
point[pointarray] technique.



The key is how do you create these point clusters and the order. In 
ICE I would make strands using a build linearly interpolated array 
with two vectors feeding into it. I guess I could try and recreate 
this using vex/vops, and maybe that's what I'm after, I just need to 
find a way to manipulate all these points in the right order.


I'm rambling a bit here, but hopefully getting somewhere!

Cheers,

Tim


*From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Andy Nicholas 
<a...@andynicholas.com>

*Sent:* 02 March 2017 12:27
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
*Subject:* Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way
Hi Tim,
Did you notice that you can do per-point array attributes in VEX? 
There's nothing stopping you setting up position vector arrays on each 
point, just like in ICE, and then using a Point Wrangle at the end to 
use that array to generate a polyline. The problem is that you then 
have to write all those handy ICE nodes like "Simulate Strands", etc. 
yourself.


That's why generally, you're better off just trying to use polylines 
as a primitive as they're more supported by Houdini's other frameworks 
(e.g. wire solver) and constraints.


A


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Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Tim,
Did you notice that you can do per-point array attributes in VEX? 
There's nothing stopping you setting up position vector arrays on each 
point, just like in ICE, and then using a Point Wrangle at the end to 
use that array to generate a polyline. The problem is that you then have 
to write all those handy ICE nodes like "Simulate Strands", etc. yourself.


That's why generally, you're better off just trying to use polylines as 
a primitive as they're more supported by Houdini's other frameworks 
(e.g. wire solver) and constraints.


A


On 02/03/2017 12:19, Tim Bolland wrote:


Thank you guys this was just what I was after. I'm aware that 
ICE Strands are just arrays, but after playing around with Houdini's 
VEX/VOPs framework I'm even more impressed by the way ICE handles the 
per-point / per-point-array / per-cloud context switches. Houdini 
seems kind of limiting in how you can't set global arrays within a 
loop running over over the points or prims. I realise that there's a 
detail mode, but doesn't help if your doing per point stuff as well. 
Anyway, I diverge. I'm going to crack on and see what I can come up 
with. I'm not such a fan of the solver/add point method as I like to 
keep things as interactive as possible.



Also, I've found this... Has anyone seen it yet? It's a rewrite of 
Kristinka but for Houdini.


https://www.sidefx.com/forum/topic/42665/

kristinka and few questions | Forums | SideFX 


www.sidefx.com
Hello, first of all, something I believe it is a good news. I'm close 
to finish a ‘port’ of Softimage ICE hair styling system called 
Kristinka Hair, to Houdini.




Cheers,


Tim




*From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
 on behalf of Jonathan Moore 


*Sent:* 02 March 2017 12:01
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

*Subject:* Re: [Houdini] Working with strands the Softimage way
One other thought with regards to Strands in Houdini is that the 
Softimage concept of Strands is supported via Redshift (with all the 
same Strand primitive types). This stops you from having to use a 
Polywire to create geometry from your curves and is far more efficient 
as the Polywire SOP is quite slow.


Most of the tried and trusted methods for the creation of trails in 
Houdini rely on the Point and Solver SOP's in combination with an Add 
SOP. They work well but the Point Sop is single threaded and has been 
replaced with the Attribute Expression SOP which is VEX driven rather 
than HScript and fully multithreaded.


http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/nodes/sop/attribexpression

Nils Prayer uses trails techniques a lot in his work and had a great 
site - Scatter (a lot like Entagma) that shares some great techniques 
that can be adapted for Redshift (you can of course follow the Mantra 
way of doing things too).


http://www.scattertuts.com/tutorials/


Tutorials — SCATTER 
www.scattertuts.com
Behind the scenes News Downloads




The H16 build of Redshift only works with the initial release builds 
not the nightly builds so H15.5 and Point SOP may be your best option 
at this stage for trails/strands using Redshift but H16's certainly 
worth a play if you don't mind keeping multiple builds of Houdini 
installed (they're all discrete and don't interfere with each other).


https://www.redshift3d.com/forums/viewthread/11210/

On 2 March 2017 at 11:29, Tim Borgmann > wrote:


From what I discovered so far in Houdini I would say there are a
lot of different ways to create something like strands. The main
difference is that there isn't something like an array of
strandpositions (or an array of what ever strandproperties).
Instead there are simple point positions which are connected. That
means that if you want to control each strand and it's positions
(or whatever properties) seperately you have to asign something
like a strand ID by yourself. An easy way to do this is by using
the resample node for example. You set a 'curve number attribute'
with it. Also it has the nice 'curve u attribute' (same as strand
ratio / length).

So I would say the main difference is that you do not deal with
arrays (of strandproperties) but with normal point properties
which you have to organize by yourself.

A very basic way to create strands is the volume trail (you
mentioned) or also by using a simple solver to build up something
like the generate strands trail ICE node (than you can use the
original point ID as strand ID). Also the use of the basic add
node is possible to connect the points. But there are so many more
ways in H as usual :)

Also regarding 

Re: Am I being an idiot, probably

[Andy Nicholas]

It's all changed in v16. You need to go to the new /mat context instead 
of /shop.


On 01/03/2017 16:39, Laurence Dodd wrote:
This is a Houdini question, I feel too stupid to ask on the Houdini 
forum.
I am just trying to set up a layered shader in Mantra, if I look at 
this tutorial

https://www.sidefx.com/tutorials/curvature-vop/
it looks so easy, but when I go to SHOP as she does I get no option 
for principled shader, I have to use a material Shader builder node, 
it's all different, and doesn't work nearly as well.
My main problem is that the shader puts my texture one to each poly, 
it does have UV's.

Arrgh this is taking me too long.

Am I missing something basic?

Thanks everyone

--

Laurence Dodd
Porkpie Animation

E: laure...@porkpie.tv 
W: www.porkpie.tv 
M: 07570 702 576
T: 01273 278 382


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Re: Getting close to a 3 year old EOL annyversary

[Andy Nicholas]

the risk vs. reward proposition doesn't seem to be attracting enough new 
players to the market.


True for the moment, but things don't stand still. Do you think people will 
still be using Maya in 20 years time? (god I hope not!) Technology, hardware, 
and client's needs all change faster than we realise.

So I have a more optimistic outlook, I think it's just a matter of time before 
someone somewhere comes up with something new that does it in a different way, 
or maybe just in a better way.



On 01/03/2017 13:24, Brent McPherson wrote:

The 3D plugin market has never seemed that healthy and it takes a lot of effort 
to turn production tools into a commercial tools.

xGen, Mash and NEX are all examples of tools that required a significant, 
multi-year effort to integrate into Maya.

I agree with Matt's assessment. The 3D market today is not the same as the one 
in which the major DCCs were developed and the risk vs. reward proposition 
doesn't seem to be attracting enough new players to the market.
--
Brent

-Original Message-
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: 01 March 2017 12:42
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Getting close to a 3 year old EOL annyversary

There are alternative business models though. For example, one where you
polish and release in-house tools:

https://bufsoftware.com/products/bsuite/

Anyone know what's happened to it? Is it still in active development?



On 01/03/2017 12:27, Matt Lind wrote:

I don't think we'll see new comprehensive DCC applications in the 3D space,
other than possibly Fabric Engine if they decide to go in that direction.

The 1990s taught us it's a very expensive, time consuming, high risk,
resource intensive effort that sells to a limited market.  Most of these
applications took 3-4 years to engineer a new core and only Softimage did a
complete ground-up rewrite on that schedule (with Microsoft money to burn).
The others borrowed pieces of existing technology.  Once these apps hit the
market, it was another few years of lean cash flow until industry trusted
them enough to adopt for general use.  That's another way of saying you need
at least 5 years of funding to undertake such an effort.

The industry has evolved and expanded since the 1990s, but prices have
plummeted.   Maya was originally released with MSRP of $35,000 USD.
Softimage at $13,995 USD.  You have to sell a lot more licenses these days
to recoup costs.

Another issue is the market has fragmented so much each specialty is
steering towards it's own dedicated toolset.  While new DCC's are desired,
they don't appear to be a practical option.  Going against the established
players is taking on a field of giants - and they have a good number of
patents for really important technology too.  To compete in today's market,
you need a different formula to cause enough disruption backed by someone
with great ambition and cash.  Elon Musk is probably the most recent
example, but despite all the resources, you can see how long and difficult
it has been for Tesla to penetrate the market.  Software isn't automobiles,
but the analogy holds.

Matt


Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 00:50:01 +0100
From: Sebastien Sterling <sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Getting close to a 3 year old EOL annyversary

See you later Space Software... (do you even reference mate ? )

When will the next generation of digital content creation tools/Platforms
happen I wonder ? Fabric is beating the fanfare don't get me wrong, but it
feels like we are late for a new member in the full solution family,
something that makes use of the advances made in tech... since after 1998.

Also out of interest what would people like to see in It? Other then a row
of AD ceo's heads on sticks at boot up?


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Re: Getting close to a 3 year old EOL annyversary

[Andy Nicholas]

There are alternative business models though. For example, one where you 
polish and release in-house tools:

https://bufsoftware.com/products/bsuite/

Anyone know what's happened to it? Is it still in active development?



On 01/03/2017 12:27, Matt Lind wrote:
> I don't think we'll see new comprehensive DCC applications in the 3D space,
> other than possibly Fabric Engine if they decide to go in that direction.
>
> The 1990s taught us it's a very expensive, time consuming, high risk,
> resource intensive effort that sells to a limited market.  Most of these
> applications took 3-4 years to engineer a new core and only Softimage did a
> complete ground-up rewrite on that schedule (with Microsoft money to burn).
> The others borrowed pieces of existing technology.  Once these apps hit the
> market, it was another few years of lean cash flow until industry trusted
> them enough to adopt for general use.  That's another way of saying you need
> at least 5 years of funding to undertake such an effort.
>
> The industry has evolved and expanded since the 1990s, but prices have
> plummeted.   Maya was originally released with MSRP of $35,000 USD.
> Softimage at $13,995 USD.  You have to sell a lot more licenses these days
> to recoup costs.
>
> Another issue is the market has fragmented so much each specialty is
> steering towards it's own dedicated toolset.  While new DCC's are desired,
> they don't appear to be a practical option.  Going against the established
> players is taking on a field of giants - and they have a good number of
> patents for really important technology too.  To compete in today's market,
> you need a different formula to cause enough disruption backed by someone
> with great ambition and cash.  Elon Musk is probably the most recent
> example, but despite all the resources, you can see how long and difficult
> it has been for Tesla to penetrate the market.  Software isn't automobiles,
> but the analogy holds.
>
> Matt
>
>
> Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 00:50:01 +0100
> From: Sebastien Sterling 
> Subject: Re: Getting close to a 3 year old EOL annyversary
>
> See you later Space Software... (do you even reference mate ? )
>
> When will the next generation of digital content creation tools/Platforms
> happen I wonder ? Fabric is beating the fanfare don't get me wrong, but it
> feels like we are late for a new member in the full solution family,
> something that makes use of the advances made in tech... since after 1998.
>
> Also out of interest what would people like to see in It? Other then a row
> of AD ceo's heads on sticks at boot up?
>
>
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Re: Official terms for Houdini Indie for anybody who's wondering.

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Cris!
Unfortunately Nuke non-commercial gives you limited Python functionality and no 
3rd party plugin support, so it forces developers to buy a full license. 
Annoying from my point of view, but I’m sure they have their reasons.


> On 21 Feb 2017, at 18:59, Cristobal Infante  wrote:
> 
> Well the foundry has a non-commercial version of Nuke now, so some advances 
> have been made!


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Re: Official terms for Houdini Indie for anybody who's wondering.

[Andy Nicholas]

Not to mention, if you're doing any sort of Python or VEX coding, then 
Apprentice isn't a restriction at all. That's incredibly useful.


I only wish The Foundry were a little more flexible and Nuke 
Non-Commercial let you do that too.

A


On 21/02/2017 18:03, Jonathan Moore wrote:

Agreed Cristobal.

Outside of watermarking of renders (and lack of third party 
renderers), Apprentice is the full Houdini FX experience. It can be a 
smart idea to do your initial learning in Apprentice, especially 
considering Indie is a 12 month rental.


Mantra is a great renderer, so forcing yourself to learn it before 
moving onto a faster GPU renderer (e.g. you already own Redshift) is 
beneficial too.




On 21 February 2017 at 17:24, Cristobal Infante > wrote:


And you can download Apprentice totally free to get started or
play at home..

That's pretty awesome

On 21 February 2017 at 17:20, Jonathan Moore
> wrote:

This is the wording on the purchase page. As I mentioned
before, if you're using Houdini alongside another DCC, the
income threshold SideFX are interested in only relates to
income derived from Houdini itself.

*/I confirm that any financial considerations received,
directly or indirectly, from use of the Software is less
than $100,000 USD per calendar year./*


They don't police it in any way but if they see your name
croping up in the credits of the next Star Wars epic, expect a
visit from the SideFX heavies.  :)

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Re: Opinion gathering

[Andy Nicholas]

Absolutely. The future feels bright :)

Great to see so many Softimage guys at the Houdini launch too!!


On 17/02/2017 15:15, Oliver Weingarten wrote:
> Am 17.02.2017 um 12:57 schrieb Jordi Bares:
>> I know the feeling… discovery… what an wonderful feeling right?
>>
>>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 11:53, Artur W  wrote:
>>>
>>> Houdini is positively overwhelming. I move around quite comfortably and yet 
>>> I feel it is still first base stage.
> Yes..and it feels like evolving with Houdini instead of taking steps
> backward with AD!
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Re: Meetup for those going to the Houdini 16 launch event

[Andy Nicholas]

And here! Might make it down the pub first depending on timing.

On 01/02/2017 15:24, Cristobal Infante wrote:

Same here!

On Wed, 1 Feb 2017 at 14:17, Dan Yargici > wrote:


Gonna be heading straight from work, so probably can't make the
pub... But I'm definitely going to be there.


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Matt Morris > wrote:

Will aim to get into London in time to share a pre-event beer
or 3, pub looks good.

On 1 February 2017 at 13:10, Jonathan Moore
>
wrote:

And Jonathan, thanks for the suggestion..I´m fine with
that! ;) What time?


I'm thinking around 5pm for the pub but I might have
wander round the show earlier to see the Redshift boys.

On 1 February 2017 at 12:25, Oliver Weingarten
> wrote:

Hey there!

I´ll be there and hitting London around 11 a.m.
Hope to see some old Softies over there!

And Jonathan, thanks for the suggestion..I´m fine with
that! ;) What time?

cheers,
oli



Am 01.02.2017 um 13:18 schrieb Jonathan Moore:

Hi All,

Just wondering who of our London contingent are going
to the Houdini 16 launch event at Rich Mix next Monday.

I used to work just around the corner at Mother and
tend to use a pub on Redchurch Street as a meeting
place for Rich Mix -*The Own & The Pussycat
**https://goo.gl/fIQdSj* -.

Anybody up for pre event swift half? Open to
suggestions for an alternative meeting place too.

jm


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Re: eliptical waves in Soft

[Andy Nicholas]

Could you scale the grid points, apply the wave deformer, and then scale 
it back after?


On 14/10/2016 11:58, Chris Marshall wrote:

Hi All,
I'm using a standard wave deformer in Soft to deform a grid into a 
ripple effect. This is fine as I've done this a thousand times, but on 
this occasion I need the ripple to emit in an eliptical way. I thought 
just scaling the wave deformer would do this, but it doesn't  Or I've 
done something wrong.

Any ideas on this?

Thanks



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Re: ÜberTage says goodbye: ÜberTage|2016 this Friday, September 16th in Siegen/Germany

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Oliver,
Yep, I was sorry to never be able to make it out, but I thought you put 
an amazing amount of effort into putting it on. Well done for keeping it 
going all those years. I'm sure there are a lot of people, myself 
included, who are very appreciative of your efforts.

A


On 13/09/2016 09:22, Oliver Weingarten wrote:
> Hey folks!
>
> Due to the low interest in our meeting this year, I made the decision to
> end it after this event taking place coming Friday.
> I organized this event for 8 years and it was always fun and pleasure to
> meet so many nice people here. I´m thankful for so many good things. We
> had great talks and a pretty nice time together. Though, it´s hard to
> see Softimage and its community die out slowly and there is no way to
> stop, or even slow it down a little. My effort to transform the SI
> meeting to an open 3D usermeeting did not succeed in the end. There
> seems not enough motivation out there to make the effort, to take that
> day(or two) to come over and take part. I totally understand that.
> Thanks for all the support from sponsors and all the people who were
> speaking and sharing stuff with us. Thanks to those, who visited us and
> took part. Thanks a lot an take care! Maybe we will met in some other
> kind of meeting ;)
>
> Anyway, looking forward to this Friday and meeting some of you guys
> again in the old spirit!!
>
> Cheers,
> Oliver
>
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Re: Wiki EOL soon

[Andy Nicholas]

I think the privacy issue can be overcome. Have a look in the link I 
sent you under the section "Backup the content of the wiki (XML dump)". 
That method doesn't include account information.


On 17/08/2016 21:17, Maurice Patel wrote:

I have asked if we can look into this and got a first response. Apparently it 
is non-trivial as the site enabled users to create accounts and there are some 
privacy issues around publishing the data as is. I can't promise anything but 
we are looking into what is feasible.
maurice

Maurice Patel
Tél:  514 954-7134
Cell: 514 242-6549

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 3:13 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Wiki EOL soon

Hi Maurice,
Is it conceivable that Autodesk would be willing to backup the wiki according 
to the instructions found here: 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Backing_up_a_wiki

and then provide that data to an individual in the community to host on their 
own publicly available server?

A

On 17/08/2016 19:59, Maurice Patel wrote:

HI,

I am not sure what you mean by a physical copy but the wayback machine 
typically keeps archives of old sites which provides  a certain level of 
availability but not all.

If you need anything it may be best to save a local copy to your machine before 
November

maurice





Maurice Patel

Tél:  514 954-7134

Cell: 514 242-6549



From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andres Stephens

Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:48 PM

To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

Subject: Re: Wiki EOL soon





Crap crap crap. Where can we download a physical copy?



-Draise



+57 3138116821

Bogotá, Colombia

On 17 Aug 2016, at 12:57, Olivier Jeannel 
<facialdel...@gmail.com<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com><mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com><mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>>
 wrote:

http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/index.php?title=Main_Page



[http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/skins/monobook/media/si/ACG_Wiki_a_head_banner_lft.png]



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Re: Wiki EOL soon

[Andy Nicholas]

No problem. Thanks for looking into it. I'm sure quite a few of us will 
be keeping our fingers crossed! ;)


A

On 17/08/2016 20:14, Maurice Patel wrote:

Thanks for sharing that. I'll look into whether we can do that.
maurice

Maurice Patel
Tél:  514 954-7134
Cell: 514 242-6549

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Nicholas
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 3:13 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Wiki EOL soon

Hi Maurice,
Is it conceivable that Autodesk would be willing to backup the wiki according 
to the instructions found here: 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Backing_up_a_wiki

and then provide that data to an individual in the community to host on their 
own publicly available server?

A

On 17/08/2016 19:59, Maurice Patel wrote:

HI,

I am not sure what you mean by a physical copy but the wayback machine 
typically keeps archives of old sites which provides  a certain level of 
availability but not all.

If you need anything it may be best to save a local copy to your machine before 
November

maurice





Maurice Patel

Tél:  514 954-7134

Cell: 514 242-6549



From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andres Stephens

Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:48 PM

To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

Subject: Re: Wiki EOL soon





Crap crap crap. Where can we download a physical copy?



-Draise



+57 3138116821

Bogotá, Colombia

On 17 Aug 2016, at 12:57, Olivier Jeannel 
<facialdel...@gmail.com<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com><mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com><mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>>
 wrote:

http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/index.php?title=Main_Page



[http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/skins/monobook/media/si/ACG_Wiki_a_head_banner_lft.png]



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Re: Wiki EOL soon

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Maurice,
Is it conceivable that Autodesk would be willing to backup the wiki 
according to the instructions found here: 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Backing_up_a_wiki


and then provide that data to an individual in the community to host on 
their own publicly available server?


A


On 17/08/2016 19:59, Maurice Patel wrote:

HI,
I am not sure what you mean by a physical copy but the wayback machine 
typically keeps archives of old sites which provides  a certain level of 
availability but not all.
If you need anything it may be best to save a local copy to your machine before 
November
maurice


Maurice Patel
Tél:  514 954-7134
Cell: 514 242-6549

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andres Stephens
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:48 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Wiki EOL soon


Crap crap crap. Where can we download a physical copy?

-Draise

+57 3138116821
Bogotá, Colombia
On 17 Aug 2016, at 12:57, Olivier Jeannel 
> wrote:
http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

[http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/skins/monobook/media/si/ACG_Wiki_a_head_banner_lft.png]

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Re: Reminiscing

[Andy Nicholas]

Yeah, reading through that I didn't envy you ;)

On 09/08/2016 16:41, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
Deritave and inverse ray casting, in fact it's a super complex 
problem, at least for me :/


On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi <ahmidou@gmail.com 
<mailto:ahmidou@gmail.com>> wrote:


Haha thanks, I should have been a detective instead :P

Le 9 août 2016 10:52 AM, "Andy Nicholas" <a...@andynicholas.com
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> a écrit :

Impressive Google-fu skills ;)

On 09/08/2016 15:48, Ahmidou Lyazidi wrote:


Hi Andy,
I knew that Jérôme worked on the closest location and Ray
cast system (as he did in Fabric Engine) , I just search for
his name in the Google patent search.

    Le 9 août 2016 10:38 AM, "Andy Nicholas"
<a...@andynicholas.com <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> a écrit :

Interesting! (although, personally I can't stand things
like this get patented)

Ahmidou, how did you find that or become aware that that
even existed in the patent database?


On 09/08/2016 15:15, Ahmidou Lyazidi wrote:


A bit more than that, here's the patent:
https://www.google.ch/patents/US20070024632?dq=ininventor

<https://www.google.ch/patents/US20070024632?dq=ininventor>:"Jerome+Couture-Gagnon"=en=X=0ahUKEwi4orePwrTOAhWIdh4KHZgwDLQQ6AEINzAE

It's in 'patent' language but the concept is there :)

Le 9 août 2016 10:01 AM, "Olivier Jeannel"
<facialdel...@gmail.com <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>>
a écrit :

Hey Ahmidou !
Getting some neighbors and averaging ?

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi
<ahmidou@gmail.com
<mailto:ahmidou@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yes exactly,  but it's patented by AD,  so
you'll need to roll you own

Le 9 août 2016 9:12 AM, "Olivier Jeannel"
<facialdel...@gmail.com
<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> a écrit :

Makes sense ! That's what the "smoothed
    surface" button compensate for in XSI ?

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Andy
Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:

Hmm, I think that's to be expected. The
edges and points are generally closer to
the grid than the faces. Think of it as
you've started with a perfect sphere
made of wood, and you just sanded it
down to get those flat triangles. The
edges and points represent the places
that haven't been sanded down, so
therefore, generally, they're closer to
the grid than the flat surfaces.



On 09/08/2016 11:31, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

The Attribute Transfer is nice to
prototype an idea, but it's rather slow
(unless they rebuild it since I used
it) compared to the execution speed of
a Vop Sop.
In Vop Sop, I use the PcOpen + Pc
Filter to mimic the Attribute Transfer
at God speed :)

While we're speaking of the xyz+PrimUV,
I found it has a weird behaviour
compared to the ClosestLocation of ice.
Here's a screen shot of what I have :

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1QqhXD7Y15qU3BKY0ZmdktNSWc

<https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1QqhXD7Y15qU3BKY0ZmdktNSWc>

Basicaly a Grid emit some particles
with a Pop solver, I build a PopVop to
create a Velocity(v) that make the
particles going from their position
toward the closest UV location on the
Sphere.
If you look at the screenshot you can
see that the location has some
preferences for the points and edges
    rather than the polygons area.

Have I missed something ?




   

Re: Reminiscing

[Andy Nicholas]

Impressive Google-fu skills ;)

On 09/08/2016 15:48, Ahmidou Lyazidi wrote:


Hi Andy,
I knew that Jérôme worked on the closest location and Ray cast system 
(as he did in Fabric Engine) , I just search for his name in the 
Google patent search.


Le 9 août 2016 10:38 AM, "Andy Nicholas" <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> a écrit :


Interesting! (although, personally I can't stand things like this
get patented)

Ahmidou, how did you find that or become aware that that even
existed in the patent database?


On 09/08/2016 15:15, Ahmidou Lyazidi wrote:


A bit more than that,  here's the patent:
https://www.google.ch/patents/US20070024632?dq=ininventor

<https://www.google.ch/patents/US20070024632?dq=ininventor>:"Jerome+Couture-Gagnon"=en=X=0ahUKEwi4orePwrTOAhWIdh4KHZgwDLQQ6AEINzAE

It's in 'patent' language but the concept is there :)

Le 9 août 2016 10:01 AM, "Olivier Jeannel"
<facialdel...@gmail.com <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> a écrit :

Hey Ahmidou !
Getting some neighbors and averaging ?

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi
<ahmidou@gmail.com <mailto:ahmidou@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yes exactly,  but it's patented by AD,  so you'll need to
roll you own

Le 9 août 2016 9:12 AM, "Olivier Jeannel"
<facialdel...@gmail.com <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>>
a écrit :

Makes sense ! That's what the "smoothed surface"
    button compensate for in XSI ?

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:

Hmm, I think that's to be expected. The edges and
points are generally closer to the grid than the
faces. Think of it as you've started with a
perfect sphere made of wood, and you just sanded
it down to get those flat triangles. The edges
and points represent the places that haven't been
sanded down, so therefore, generally, they're
closer to the grid than the flat surfaces.



On 09/08/2016 11:31, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

The Attribute Transfer is nice to prototype an
idea, but it's rather slow (unless they rebuild
it since I used it) compared to the execution
speed of a Vop Sop.
In Vop Sop, I use the PcOpen + Pc Filter to
mimic the Attribute Transfer at God speed :)

While we're speaking of the xyz+PrimUV, I found
it has a weird behaviour compared to the
ClosestLocation of ice.
Here's a screen shot of what I have :

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1QqhXD7Y15qU3BKY0ZmdktNSWc

<https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1QqhXD7Y15qU3BKY0ZmdktNSWc>

Basicaly a Grid emit some particles with a Pop
solver, I build a PopVop to create a Velocity(v)
that make the particles going from their
position toward the closest UV location on the
Sphere.
If you look at the screenshot you can see that
the location has some preferences for the points
and edges rather than the polygons area.

Have I missed something ?




On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:

Take a look at the "primuv" and "xyzdist"
VEX functions. They allow you to get near
identical behaviour to closest point look
ups. It's not too much work to wrap them up
into reusable HDAs. (In fact, I'd recommend
doing it as a good way to start getting your
head around HDA creation as a process.)



On 07/08/2016 21:55, Andy Chlupka wrote:



On Aug 06, 2016, at 11:17, Olivier Jeannel
<facialdel...@gmail.com
<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In Houdini they tend to transform every
thing in VDB or fill volumes with nuts
number of points just to transfer datas...


Strange thing you describe here. I’ve found
that 

Re: Reminiscing

[Andy Nicholas]

Interesting! (although, personally I can't stand things like this get 
patented)


Ahmidou, how did you find that or become aware that that even existed in 
the patent database?



On 09/08/2016 15:15, Ahmidou Lyazidi wrote:


A bit more than that,  here's the patent:
https://www.google.ch/patents/US20070024632?dq=ininventor:"Jerome+Couture-Gagnon"=en=X=0ahUKEwi4orePwrTOAhWIdh4KHZgwDLQQ6AEINzAE

It's in 'patent' language but the concept is there :)

Le 9 août 2016 10:01 AM, "Olivier Jeannel" <facialdel...@gmail.com 
<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> a écrit :


Hey Ahmidou !
Getting some neighbors and averaging ?

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi
<ahmidou@gmail.com <mailto:ahmidou@gmail.com>> wrote:

Yes exactly,  but it's patented by AD,  so you'll need to roll
you own

Le 9 août 2016 9:12 AM, "Olivier Jeannel"
<facialdel...@gmail.com <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> a écrit :

Makes sense ! That's what the "smoothed surface" button
    compensate for in XSI ?

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:

Hmm, I think that's to be expected. The edges and
points are generally closer to the grid than the
faces. Think of it as you've started with a perfect
sphere made of wood, and you just sanded it down to
get those flat triangles. The edges and points
represent the places that haven't been sanded down, so
therefore, generally, they're closer to the grid than
the flat surfaces.



On 09/08/2016 11:31, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

The Attribute Transfer is nice to prototype an idea,
but it's rather slow (unless they rebuild it since I
used it) compared to the execution speed of a Vop Sop.
In Vop Sop, I use the PcOpen + Pc Filter to mimic the
Attribute Transfer at God speed :)

While we're speaking of the xyz+PrimUV, I found it
has a weird behaviour compared to the ClosestLocation
of ice.
Here's a screen shot of what I have :
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1QqhXD7Y15qU3BKY0ZmdktNSWc
<https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1QqhXD7Y15qU3BKY0ZmdktNSWc>

Basicaly a Grid emit some particles with a Pop
solver, I build a PopVop to create a Velocity(v) that
make the particles going from their position toward
the closest UV location on the Sphere.
If you look at the screenshot you can see that the
location has some preferences for the points and
edges rather than the polygons area.

    Have I missed something ?




On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Andy Nicholas
<a...@andynicholas.com
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:

Take a look at the "primuv" and "xyzdist" VEX
functions. They allow you to get near identical
behaviour to closest point look ups. It's not too
much work to wrap them up into reusable HDAs. (In
fact, I'd recommend doing it as a good way to
start getting your head around HDA creation as a
process.)



On 07/08/2016 21:55, Andy Chlupka wrote:



On Aug 06, 2016, at 11:17, Olivier Jeannel
<facialdel...@gmail.com
<mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In Houdini they tend to transform every thing
in VDB or fill volumes with nuts number of
points just to transfer datas...


Strange thing you describe here. I’ve found that
most advice comes in the from of using the
Attribute Transfer SOP.



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Re: Reminiscing

[Andy Nicholas]

Hmm, I think that's to be expected. The edges and points are generally 
closer to the grid than the faces. Think of it as you've started with a 
perfect sphere made of wood, and you just sanded it down to get those 
flat triangles. The edges and points represent the places that haven't 
been sanded down, so therefore, generally, they're closer to the grid 
than the flat surfaces.



On 09/08/2016 11:31, Olivier Jeannel wrote:
The Attribute Transfer is nice to prototype an idea, but it's rather 
slow (unless they rebuild it since I used it) compared to the 
execution speed of a Vop Sop.
In Vop Sop, I use the PcOpen + Pc Filter to mimic the Attribute 
Transfer at God speed :)


While we're speaking of the xyz+PrimUV, I found it has a weird 
behaviour compared to the ClosestLocation of ice.

Here's a screen shot of what I have :
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1QqhXD7Y15qU3BKY0ZmdktNSWc

Basicaly a Grid emit some particles with a Pop solver, I build a 
PopVop to create a Velocity(v) that make the particles going from 
their position toward the closest UV location on the Sphere.
If you look at the screenshot you can see that the location has some 
preferences for the points and edges rather than the polygons area.


Have I missed something ?




On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


Take a look at the "primuv" and "xyzdist" VEX functions. They
allow you to get near identical behaviour to closest point look
ups. It's not too much work to wrap them up into reusable HDAs.
(In fact, I'd recommend doing it as a good way to start getting
your head around HDA creation as a process.)



On 07/08/2016 21:55, Andy Chlupka wrote:



On Aug 06, 2016, at 11:17, Olivier Jeannel
<facialdel...@gmail.com <mailto:facialdel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In Houdini they tend to transform every thing in VDB or fill
volumes with nuts number of points just to transfer datas...


Strange thing you describe here. I’ve found that most advice
comes in the from of using the Attribute Transfer SOP.



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Re: Reminiscing

[Andy Nicholas]

Take a look at the "primuv" and "xyzdist" VEX functions. They allow you 
to get near identical behaviour to closest point look ups. It's not too 
much work to wrap them up into reusable HDAs. (In fact, I'd recommend 
doing it as a good way to start getting your head around HDA creation as 
a process.)



On 07/08/2016 21:55, Andy Chlupka wrote:


On Aug 06, 2016, at 11:17, Olivier Jeannel > wrote:


In Houdini they tend to transform every thing in VDB or fill volumes 
with nuts number of points just to transfer datas...


Strange thing you describe here. I’ve found that most advice comes in 
the from of using the Attribute Transfer SOP.




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Re: Motion Tracking

[Andy Nicholas]

I know these things are often down to personal preference and depth of 
knowledge of a package, but for me, 3DEqualizer wins out in most 
situations. The only time I go to PFTrack is for their mesh tracking and 
perspective alignment tool. I'm not particularly a fan of PFTrack's node 
editor, as it doesn't provide the sorts of workflows that I'd expect 
from it so I quickly get frustrated. I find that it's too high level in 
terms of the data that gets passed between nodes. I want more granularity.


With 3DE being so (relatively) cheap with its rental pricing now, I'd 
find it hard to justify using anything else. It's not the easiest of 
packages to pick up when you're starting out, but for me that's about 
the only downside.





On 20/07/2016 15:07, Alok Gandhi wrote:
Chiming in from VFX Pipeline perspective on which I have a worked for 
quite a number of years (though not in tracking), there are these 3 or 
4 dccs as mentioned above that I have seen the most experienced 
tracking artists using each one of them for solving specific shot 
problems. In the end a solid tracking artist would preferably have 
most of them in their arsenal to track any shot thrown their way using 
a combination or one of them. Sometimes tracking can be a brutal and 
needs some serious fire fighting. So I would say all of them have 
their pros and cons but by a little margin PF Track wins the race.


On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 5:25 PM, Chris Marshall 
> wrote:


OK Brilliant! I'll check out some of those options.
Sounds like PF Track might be my first point of contact.
Thanks List!


On 20 July 2016 at 09:05, Olivier Jeannel > wrote:

I've seen some nice thing coming out of nuke tracking (I don't
use Nuke ..yet)
Other than that PF track.

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 11:48 PM, Adam Sale
> wrote:

PF Track all the way in my opinion. Node based interface
for combining all kinds of matchmove , object tracks,
stabilization, undistortion, redistortion etc.
Its cheaper by a long shot than 3dEq, though I can't speak
for the rental aspect costs.

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 10:30 AM, Francois Lord
> wrote:

Syntheyes for low price, precision of 2D tracking and
speed of 2D tracking.
PFTrack for overall speed and versatility.
3DEqualizer for difficult shots and precision of 3D track.
NukeX for simple shots if you already have a license.

If you need to choose just one, I would pick PFTrack.
The node based workflow is awesome, but the rest of
the UI is awful. A good combination is to 2D track in
Syntheyes and 3D solve in PFTrack.

On 2016-07-19 10:46, Rob Wuijster wrote:


There's PFTrack, and SynthEyes is used a lot as well.
SynthEyes has decent pricing too.

Rob

\/-\/\/
On 19-7-2016 16:18, Cristobal Infante wrote:

I would recommend 3DEqualizer, it's probably the
best one out there. You can now rent it.
FXPHD have some good intro courses I believe.

On 19 July 2016 at 10:47, Chris Marshall
> wrote:

Hi All,
What are people using for motion tracking /
match moving these days? I haven't needed to do
it for a while.

Cheers

Chris


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Re: Using ICE to drive text, how?

[Andy Nicholas]

Okay...

Another way to look at it is that if you go into XSI Explorer with it 
set to view "All Nodes" at the top, you can expand the "Text To Curve 
Converter" operator, and then expand the Text primitive. Under there, 
you'll find a Text parameter and a Width parameter. There's also another 
parameter that doesn't show its name. If you use the SDK Explorer, you 
can see that it's actually called "singleline" that represents whether 
to use single or multiple lines in your text.


You can drag'n'drop the Text or Width parameters into an ICE tree to get 
their values, or use a Set Data to set the Text parameter. The Width 
parameter is read-only so you can't change it. You can change 
"singleline", but you have to type that one in, as drag'n'drop won't 
work as it doesn't have a label.


None of these parameters have the green divot because their 
siCapabilities flags mean they're not animatable (again, see SDK 
Explorer and this: 
http://docs.autodesk.com/SI/2015/ENU/Softimage-Developer-Help//index.html#!/url=./si_om/siCapabilities.html), 
but there's nothing stopping you changing them over time using a 
scripted operator or ICE.


Incidentally, if you want to try setting up a Scripted Operator to 
modify the text, just right click on the Text primitive (the one with 
the (P) icon under the "Text To Curve Convertor") and select "Set 
Scripted Operator..." in the context menu. Then, in the Scripted 
Operator Editor just set the Update code to read:


Out.Value.text="Hello World!"

(and don't forget to indent!)

Does that help?

A


On 05/05/2016 11:53, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

Would love a more in depth explanation

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Andy Nicholas <a...@andynicholas.com 
<mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>> wrote:


I've used "text.text" before as an output port in scripted
operators to drive the text. So it stood to reason you could do it
using ICE too. It's just a normal parameter, albeit well hidden!


On 05/05/2016 11:25, p...@bustykelp.com
<mailto:p...@bustykelp.com> wrote:

How did you discover that? I had no idea ICE could be used to
    ‘write’ text. It makes me wonder what other abilities are
concealed within ICE.
*From:* Andy Nicholas <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 04, 2016 6:36 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: Using ICE to drive text, how?
To set the text for geometry, just create an ICE tree on the text
object and make a Set Data with it pointing at "self.text.text".
For conversions for integers and scalars to string, you can
either use Dan Yargici's "DanyTools" on http://www.rray.de/xsi,
or create expressions in parameters and pull those into ICE.

Cheers,
Andy

On 04/05/2016 18:27, Andres Stephens wrote:

I was delighted to see that I can use strings with ICE, even arrays.
I started working with animation nodes in Blender but quickly
hit a snag as my large node trees drove the software to a grind.
I could not scale my data sets. I know ICE is better optimized.
One thing I liked about Animation Nodes in Blender is the fact I
can use any value, integers to strings, on a text object. Great
for motion graphics.
How do I do this in ICE? I hope it's obvious...
-Draise


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Re: Using ICE to drive text, how?

[Andy Nicholas]

I've used "text.text" before as an output port in scripted operators to 
drive the text. So it stood to reason you could do it using ICE too. 
It's just a normal parameter, albeit well hidden!



On 05/05/2016 11:25, p...@bustykelp.com wrote:
How did you discover that? I had no idea ICE could be used to ‘write’ 
text. It makes me wonder what other abilities are concealed within ICE.

*From:* Andy Nicholas <mailto:a...@andynicholas.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 04, 2016 6:36 PM
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

*Subject:* Re: Using ICE to drive text, how?
To set the text for geometry, just create an ICE tree on the text 
object and make a Set Data with it pointing at "self.text.text".
For conversions for integers and scalars to string, you can either use 
Dan Yargici's "DanyTools" on http://www.rray.de/xsi, or create 
expressions in parameters and pull those into ICE.


Cheers,
Andy

On 04/05/2016 18:27, Andres Stephens wrote:

I was delighted to see that I can use strings with ICE, even arrays.
I started working with animation nodes in Blender but quickly hit a 
snag as my large node trees drove the software to a grind. I could 
not scale my data sets. I know ICE is better optimized.
One thing I liked about Animation Nodes in Blender is the fact I can 
use any value, integers to strings, on a text object. Great for 
motion graphics.

How do I do this in ICE? I hope it's obvious...
-Draise


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Re: Using ICE to drive text, how?

[Andy Nicholas]

To set the text for geometry, just create an ICE tree on the text object 
and make a Set Data with it pointing at "self.text.text".
For conversions for integers and scalars to string, you can either use 
Dan Yargici's "DanyTools" on http://www.rray.de/xsi, or create 
expressions in parameters and pull those into ICE.


Cheers,
Andy

On 04/05/2016 18:27, Andres Stephens wrote:


I was delighted to see that I can use strings with ICE, even arrays.

I started working with animation nodes in Blender but quickly hit a 
snag as my large node trees drove the software to a grind. I could not 
scale my data sets. I know ICE is better optimized.


One thing I liked about Animation Nodes in Blender is the fact I can 
use any value, integers to strings, on a text object. Great for motion 
graphics.


How do I do this in ICE? I hope it's obvious...


-Draise


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Re: OT Houdini build Array VOP question (and a bit of rant)

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Dan. You can send them feedback directly via supp...@sidefx.com.
A

On 04/03/2016 09:29, Dan Yargici wrote:
Thanks Jordi.  I would like to do this actually, and my family is away 
for a week so I might actually have the time to do it!


Which channel would you suggest?  or do you think it would be better 
to start an open discussion on the Houdini list?


DAN


On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Jordi Bares > wrote:


Dan, you should talk to them and show them some examples, every
single time I have reached (with some screen captures, videos and
audio to support my requests) them there has been a positive
conversation and 8/10 things have been improved, which is the
reason I want to keep using it.

jb



On 3 Mar 2016, at 18:54, Dan Yargici > wrote:

Love Houdini, but coming from ICE, VOPs are an absolute horror to
use IMO.  They need to drag it out of the 90's and introduce some
more modern interaction workflows...

DAN

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Christopher Crouzet
> wrote:

VOP graphs are being converted to VEX code, which means that
for each VOP node you'll find a corresponding VEX function,
and most likely vice versa too. If you want to see the
generated code, just right click on the VOP node, and select
“View VEX Code...”. It can be informative to check it out
sometimes to help with debugging, but it's overly cluttered
in comparison to hand-written VEX code and thus can be hard
to read.

Regarding the line `int pt1 = min(neighbours(input, pt0));`,
it's picking the neighbour with the smallest point number.
The reason is simple—the `Sort SOP` node reorder the points
so for example the lowest point numbers for a sort by X
become the ones having the lowest X value. And hence, you
want the neighbour of `pt0` with the lowest point number to
have `pt0` and `pt1` representing the edge that matches the
best to what's expected from the sorting. If instead you'd
simply do `int pt1 = neighbours(input, pt0)[0];`, then you'd
sometimes get what you'd hope, sometimes not.

Also yeah, there's never a single way to do things. If you
compute a sort of normal as you say for each point, that you
can make in a predictable way accross the entire mesh, then
you'd probably avoid the problem that I mentionned in my
previous email. Maybe the `PolyFrame SOP` could be used for
that, but I don't know how it internally works and thus I
don't know how predictable it is. Worth a try! I only
provided the scene this way to give the idea that the
essential of it can be done easily enough in VOP/VEX. But
it's always the remaining 10% that takes 90% of the time! :)


On 3 March 2016 at 21:28, Olivier Jeannel
> wrote:

You seem very dispointed by Houdini Anto, are you ?

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Anto Matkovic
> wrote:

Thank you kindly Christopher,
Yes as far as I know, FE presents the whole points
data as an array. Beside that, at this moment I just
feel FE as much better solution for me (and for
Olivier of course :) ), instead of H. Can't really
say more for now. Also really need to say, while I'm
not programmer, unfortunately or not I have to
communicate with them every day, even in private
life, so maybe I become a bit resistant. I think we
all know how is going with this kind of people -  one
has this or that opinion, another has completely
opposite, all long stories full of smart words. No
need to waste your time on me, let's say in short :) 
Of course I've read everything you said here.

thanks again...



*From:* Christopher Crouzet
>
*To:* Softimage Mailing List
>
*Sent:* Thursday, March 3, 2016 4:40 AM
*Subject:* Re: OT Houdini build Array VOP question
(and a bit of rant)

You can think of each geometry attribute as an array
which length equals the number of points (if dealing

Re: Goodbyes (was this is the end...)

[Andy Nicholas]

"it's not the years... it's the mileage"
;)

On 02/02/2016 18:07, Sandy Sutherland wrote:

Egads - Adrian, you are really just a nipper..

S.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:02 PM, adrian wyer 
> wrote:


what's that... speak up, us old folks don't hear too good... dang
gummit, kids today with your ice trees and your terra flops

i remember when all this was fields, and the discussion list was
all about cheese and monkeys.

why when i was a lad.. mumble mumble..

NURSE!! need some fresh sheets over here

a



*From:*softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com

[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
] *On Behalf Of
*Bradley Gabe
*Sent:* 02 February 2016 15:24
*To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

*Subject:* Re: Goodbyes (was this is the end...)

I appreciate the sentiment folks, you've already thanked me enough
over the years. :-)

For the first time, I am concerned that the list might disappear
once and for all, and possibly without warning. At the moment,
this has been my only contact with the old user base. I'm afraid
if the list goes, I won't be able to keep up as I am being sucked
into an entirely different, all-consuming vortex.

Re: this is the end......

[Andy Nicholas]

http://img.memecdn.com/i-cri-evrytiem---independence-day_o_5559041.jpg

So sad.. just, so sad...  :(


On 27/01/2016 15:41, Bradley Gabe wrote:

<♫>Bye bye Soft.
Bye bye friendliness.
Hello plugin mess.
I'm thinkin' I'm a goin' to cry-y.
Goodbye my Soft good bye-y.

-Music by Everly Brothers. Lyrics by Softimage users.

Re: How to emit particles from intersection between volumes?

[Andy Nicholas]

Hi Morten,
Could you emit by volume using both pieces of geometry as an emitter, 
then do "Point in Volume" tests for both and delete any points that 
don't succeed in both tests?


A

On 09/12/2015 11:24, Morten Bartholdy wrote:


I am trying to initiate particle emission from the volume of an object 
by intersecting it with a different object, so I can gr a dually 
expand the volume from which particles are emitted. Much like when an 
object collides with another and subsequently breaks into particles in 
slowmotion, starting from the point of impact.


I have checked example scenes and currently I am trying spawning when 
particles are inside a volume, but I can't figure out how to only emit 
particles when the emitter intersects with another object. I am 
guessing I need to use a state machine, but have yet to figure out how 
to make it start an emission rather than change parameters on existing 
particles or control spawning.


Any pointers or examples are most welcome :)

Thanks

Morten

Re: How to emit particles from intersection between volumes?

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep, I didn't need to emit from both. Duh!

On 09/12/2015 12:09, Chris Marshall wrote:
Emit from inside the first, then use Test Inside Geometry (the second 
object) Any that aren't in the second, delete.



On 9 December 2015 at 11:24, Morten Bartholdy > wrote:


I am trying to initiate particle emission from the volume of an
object by intersecting it with a different object, so I can gr a
dually expand the volume from which particles are emitted. Much
like when an object collides with another and subsequently breaks
into particles in slowmotion, starting from the point of impact.

I have checked example scenes and currently I am trying spawning
when particles are inside a volume, but I can't figure out how to
only emit particles when the emitter intersects with another
object. I am guessing I need to use a state machine, but have yet
to figure out how to make it start an emission rather than change
parameters on existing particles or control spawning.

Any pointers or examples are most welcome :)

Thanks

Morten




--
Chris Marshall
Mint Motion Limited
029 20 37 27 57
07730 533 115
www.mintmotion.co.uk 
www.dot3d.com 

Re: POLY | Manipulating polygons

[Andy Nicholas]

Thanks for sharing! Great work.

On 04/12/2015 22:25, Olivier Jeannel wrote:

Hi there,
Lately I "developped" for a recent job a set of ICE nodes to easily 
and fastly manipulate polygons.
A lot of this techology is taken from Christian Godzinger and Cesar 
Saez. I just rewired together and compounded to ergonomic- easy to use 
purpose.

It is really faster than the usual Particle to Island.
If someone is interested, I'll happily share the compounds and some 
demo scenes, just drop a line in the comments.


I put together a demo here :

https://vimeo.com/147899293

If you have the courage to scroll to the end of the video, there are 
same cheesy mixture of points manipulated around edges and around 
polygon center which are not so common (I believe).


Thank you.

Re: End of the ride

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep, good luck Graham. You’ve always had the back of all the Softimager’s over 
the years. I hope that loyalty pays back in kind for you with your future 
career, as it’s well deserved.

Andy



 On 20 May 2015, at 11:58, Kris Rivel krisri...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Thanks Grahamall the best for sure. 
 
 Kris
 
 On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 5:21 AM, Juan Brockhaus juanxsil...@gmail.com 
 mailto:juanxsil...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks Graham and all the best for the future!
 
 On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 1:50 AM, Daniel Brassard dbrassar...@gmail.com 
 mailto:dbrassar...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thank you Graham for your help and advice in ICE and programming over the 
 years. Good luck in your new ventures and keep in touch here.
 
 wish you the best,
 
 Dan
 
 Thanks Graham, you work has been great and Autodesk is loosing a key asset 
 and the culture few of the remaining Softimage guys brought to it, sad 
 strategy they have.
 
 Wish you the best and hope we can work together in the near future.
 jb
 
 On 13 May 2015, at 15:53, Alan Fregtman alan.fregt...@gmail.com 
 mailto:alan.fregt...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Thank you for all the help throughout the years, Graham! :)
 
 
 On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 11:39 AM Morten Bartholdy x...@colorshopvfx.dk 
 mailto:x...@colorshopvfx.dk wrote:
 Well then thanks for the assistance you have provided over the years and 
 good luck where ever you will be going!
  
 Cheers Graham!
  
  
 Best Regards
 Morten Bartholdy
 - Softimage user since 1992
  
  
 
 Den 13. maj 2015 kl. 00:59 skrev Graham Bell bell...@gmail.com 
 mailto:bell...@gmail.com: 
 
 I hadn't wanted to make any kind of announcement, but reading Stephens 
 latest Flashback thread and the discussions on where peoples journey with 
 Softimage first started, it's kinda made me realise that mine has basically 
 ended. 
 And as I'm posting here, I didn't want to fly under false colours, so to 
 speak. 
  
 As of the start of this month, I'm no longer at Autodesk, The bloodline of 
 european Softimage AE's from Ben, Chinny, and James, to myself has now ended.
  
 Perhaps it's time to start earning an honest living again. lol :-)
 
  
 
 
 

Re: OT: Geometry approximation in houdini

[Andy Nicholas]

You can use the Normal SOP with it set to Vertex. You can set the angle there.

The Facet SOP does something similar, but it will actually disconnect the 
points instead, rather than setting vertex normal attributes.

A


 On 21 May 2015, at 20:04, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hey guys
 In soft we have a discontinuity angle slider under geometry approximation.
 Where do I find this in houdini?
 I have a low poly object that I need to render like a crystal, so i need the 
 facets to be super hard, no smoothing over edges
 Thanks
 G

Re: sprite?

[Andy Nicholas]

You can set an expression for scale like this:

5.0 * ctr_dist(myobject., mycamera.)

Change 5.0 to whatever gives you the right size. This just makes it bigger 
the further away it is and compensates the appearance of it getting smaller 
with distance.

You can also use the ctr_dist_cam function if you want it to automatically use 
the output camera. Not sure how reliable it is at updating though.

Cheers,
A

 On 5 Feb 2015, at 19:49, Ed Manning etmth...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Maybe...
 
 start with camera facing straight along, say, Z-axis
 make your sprite a poly grid
 set a 2 point constraint to the camera and the animated null; disable it for 
 now
 put the polygon at the right distance infront of camera for the pixel 
 coverage you want.
 set a position limit in Z with current Z coordinate as both max and min
 enable the 2-point constraint
 if the camera has to animate, then I think you could parent the whole thing 
 to a null and have it work in camera local space
 Alternatively, you could just do the 2-point constraint and write an 
 expression that scales the sprite poly according to camera distance, but that 
 seems like math to me, so I normally wouldn't try.  ;-)
 
 
 
 On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES] 
 j.ponthi...@nasa.gov wrote:
 Hi yall….
 
  
 
  
 
 I have a null in my scene.
 
  
 
 I want to constrain a bitmap to it and always have it face the camera.
 
  
 
 I know how to do this, position constrain grid with texture to null, orient 
 constrain grid to camera, blah blah.  But I want to maintain a grid size 
 that is screen relevant not scene relevant. So I don’t want to do this old 
 school.
 
  
 
 Instead I’d like to attach a sprite to the null instead, have it render a 
 set pixel size instead of a world space size, but I don’t really want to use 
 ICE or particles since it’s only a single object, that just seems overkill.
 
  
 
 Is there a simpler way to accomplish this kind of thing?
 
  
 
  
 
 --
 
 Joey Ponthieux
 
 LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
 
 MYMIC Technical Services
 
 NASA Langley Research Center
 
 __
 
 Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
 
 represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.
 
 

Re: mountain collapse

[Andy Nicholas]

There's a collision offset attribute in ICE that's supposed to let you do a 
push on the collision hulls rather than the visible mesh. Can't remember it's 
name off the top of my head but it's in the docs.

(Also, I don't remember it working particularly well, but it's worth a try!)

A

 On 3 Feb 2015, at 06:01, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Make your pieces smaller than they need to be. Push deform them maybe.
 The pop is from them intersecting at the start.
 G
 On 02/02/2015 20:29, Chris Marshall wrote:
 OK Thanks.
 Well I've got something going, but I need the simulation to be a collapse, 
 like huge icebergs crumbling, but the simulation starts with a 'pop', so all 
 chunks explode outwards initially. I'll keep digging.
 Any thoughts?
 
 
 
 
 On 2 February 2015 at 18:17, John Richard Sanchez youngupstar...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 yes
 
 On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 12:58 PM, Chris Marshall chrismarshal...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 OK So I've managed to shatter my object quite nicely following Adam Sales 
 Vimeo demo, which is very useful indeed. But he then uses Momentum to do 
 the simulation. Is it not possible to use the factory bullet rigid bodies?
 Thanks
 
 
 On 2 February 2015 at 17:03, Chris Marshall chrismarshal...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 OK Thanks I'll see how I go.
 
 
 On 2 February 2015 at 16:58, Mario Reitbauer cont...@marioreitbauer.at 
 wrote:
 Implosia 2.5 is still out there. You could try that for shattering.
 
 http://traypen.com/rr/bak/iamvfx/ImplosiaTools25.xsiaddon
 
 Best would still to use Momentum but as you might not want to spend 
 money on that one you can try breaking your pieces with implosia and 
 then simulate with with bullet in ice.
 
 2015-02-02 17:46 GMT+01:00 Chris Marshall chrismarshal...@gmail.com:
 the Shatter script? 
 
 On 2 February 2015 at 16:42, John Richard Sanchez 
 youngupstar...@gmail.com wrote:
 Of the top pf my head. Use the shatter script then use rigid bodies. 
 Plot it and in the Animation editor you can
play with the timing. 
 
 On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 11:29 AM, Chris Marshall 
 chrismarshal...@gmail.com wrote:
 hi All,
 I need to very quickly destroy a mountain, well a bit like those 
 iceberg shots of them collapsing into the sea, but without the sea. 
 This is kind of a quick n dirty effect, but I need to sort it pretty 
 quickly. I'm not running any plugins here so could do with some quick 
 thoughts on how to breakup a mountain very randomly into lots of 
 chunks, then make it  
  collapse (I can probably do that bit).
 Any thoughts would be 
   great.
 
 Thanks
 Chris
 

Re: convert back to 2014

[Andy Nicholas]

For the ICE tree I would've thought you could just export it as a compound. It 
gets stored as plain text XML so if there are any obvious incompatibilities you 
can at least do a bit of detective work by diff'ing the export from both 
packages to see what you need to alter in the XML.

A

 On 7 Jan 2015, at 06:44, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 Hey list.. need some help, because I'm a dumbass
 I've created a model in soft 2015 but I need to supply the files in 2014 sp2. 
 (yeah.. you would think I would ask before I start, but like I said... 
 dumbass)
 There are a few ice trees that needs to stay live, some hard edge clusters 
 and a few curves.
 I tried fbx, but it seems to throw away my hard edges.
 Is there a magic button somewhere or a good work flow for this?
 Thanks
 G

Re: Hey autodesk.. get your shit together!!

[Andy Nicholas]

Just leaked... AD Internal memo:

Our new bug reporting page has been a resounding success. It managed to cut 
bug reports by 100%


 On 7 Jan 2015, at 08:55, Gerbrand Nel nagv...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I know this is the wrong place to post this, but trying to log a problem on 
 the Autodesk site is about as pleasant as hot wax hair removal.
 Anyone know what to do if the activation process says my serial number is 
 wrong?
 I copy and pasted it from my support page, and it was fine for the 
 installation, but not the activation.
 This is for 2014
 Then when I try and log the problem, the customer bug report form is buggy
 The irony of this boils blood!!!
 The future is bright!!
 End rant
 G

Re: maya camera mapping

[Andy Nicholas]

Yep, Maya is a complete disaster if you're trying to create actual UVs based on 
a camera projection. For some reason (in my experience at least), Maya always 
fits the resulting UVs to the 0-1 region afterwards which makes it completely 
useless (it must do it just for lolz I guess). If I recall correctly, it won't 
leave it as a live operation either. Quite how this functionality has remained 
in its current state is quite beyond me. I guess no one actually uses it. 

AFAIK, I think the way most people do it, is to use a camera projection shader, 
and have a duplicate camera in the scene. 

Quite happy to stand corrected on any of the above if you know a way to make it 
work in the proper (Soft) way. I guess there's probably a mel script for it. 

Ugh. 

A

 On 6 Jan 2015, at 11:22, Chris Marshall chrismarshal...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi All, and happy new year
 Really sorry to have to ask a Maya question, but I'm struggling generally 
 with texturing, texture supports and the difference between Soft and Maya. 
 But the one thing I can't figure out is how to camera map / camera 
 projection, which was so easy in Soft. Any thoughts?
 Thanks
 
 Chris
 
 

Re: maya camera mapping

[Andy Nicholas]

Heh! You'd have thought so, right :)

Yep you can use a projection for that. I think you just right click on the 
image shader in the Hypershade's shader palette, and choose Apply as 
projection or whatever it says. You should have an option on the projection 
node it creates to use a camera as its basis. 

 On 6 Jan 2015, at 11:59, Chris Marshall chrismarshal...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Thanks Andy,
 I'd figured this wasn't going to be easy, but it seems almost everything I 
 want to do in Maya is either a workaround, or it simply doesn't do it. Or 
 there's a Mel script for it! 
 I've been working with some students who have built an object that sits in a 
 background plate they've photographed themselves. So I wanted them to build a 
 ground plane onto which the image is mapped with a camera projection. Isn't 
 this common practice?
 
 Cheers
 
 
 On 6 January 2015 at 11:43, Andy Nicholas a...@andynicholas.com wrote:
 Yep, Maya is a complete disaster if you're trying to create actual UVs based 
 on a camera projection. For some reason (in my experience at least), Maya 
 always fits the resulting UVs to the 0-1 region afterwards which makes it 
 completely useless (it must do it just for lolz I guess). If I recall 
 correctly, it won't leave it as a live operation either. Quite how this 
 functionality has remained in its current state is quite beyond me. I guess 
 no one actually uses it.
 
 AFAIK, I think the way most people do it, is to use a camera projection 
 shader, and have a duplicate camera in the scene.
 
 Quite happy to stand corrected on any of the above if you know a way to make 
 it work in the proper (Soft) way. I guess there's probably a mel script for 
 it.
 
 Ugh.
 
 A
 
  On 6 Jan 2015, at 11:22, Chris Marshall chrismarshal...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Hi All, and happy new year
  Really sorry to have to ask a Maya question, but I'm struggling generally 
  with texturing, texture supports and the difference between Soft and Maya. 
  But the one thing I can't figure out is how to camera map / camera 
  projection, which was so easy in Soft. Any thoughts?
  Thanks
 
  Chris
 
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 
 Chris Marshall
 Mint Motion Limited
 029 20 37 27 57
 07730 533 115
 www.mintmotion.co.uk