Re: [WISPA] What are your customers worth?
The valuation of WISP user vs Cell user are a little funky. These numbers came off the top of my head and may not be anywhere near resembling reality. I am basing them on what I have made/lost in the WISP business in the past 5 years, and what I have spent/seen others spend on cell phone service for the past 10 years. Some of these numbers are purely speculative. . Typical wisp user revenue: $40/mo - $100/mo Typical wireless phone user revenue: $79/mo - $199/mo Typical install/CPE: take a $150-$200 loss on truck roll, CPE costs, labor, etc Typical cell phone sale/contract: make $100-$200 and give customer a free car charger than costs you $0.99 in bulk. NO TRUCK ROLLS Typical WISP customer problem: $50 truck roll + CPE replacement, cable re-run, POE replacement, 2 hr troubleshooting, etc Typical cell cust prob: sell them a new phone. Make $100, and make them come in to buy it. Typical WISP user cancellation: Pay a tech $50 to go by and uninstall the CPE Typical cell cancellation: CHARGE THEM $200/line to CANCEL Typical WISP customer install with bad credit: Be a nice guy, let them pay out the $200 install over 4 months, never collect anything but the first $50 and get screwed on the rest Typical cell with bad credt: Make them put down a $500 deposit, or get on a pay-as-you-go plan where they pay $0.20/min vs $0.05/min x 2000 min/mo. Typical WISP customer: unlimited email, unlimited downloads, unlimited uploads, unlimited P2P, unlimited complaining if a speed test ever shows 1/bit/sec slower than advertised speed. Typical cell user: $0.05/sms text message, $0.10/bit for downloading crap, $0.99/ea to download ringers. Drop the call/lose the ringer, etc. too bad.. try it again Typical WISP AP: rent the tower for $0-$500/mo and put up a $1000 AP for 40 to 100 subs Tower costs of $5/mo/sub roughly. Typical Cell tower: rent the land for $500/mo, build the tower/equipment for $90k, support 1000+ subs Amortize $90k for 10 years at $750/mo + interest, so the tower costs $12/mo/sub roughly. Now, with that said, do you want to buy a WISP, or do you want to buy a cell phone company? pd Blake Bowers wrote: Kind of rough to figure out what exactly they are paying per subscriber, the system may have a lot of revenue from other sources, such as co-locating. Put another cell carrier on the tower and you can add another 200K or more to the value of the tower. IE, if you have a cellular carrier on your tower, and want to sell, you can expect 8 -9 -10 times yearly revenue, or in some cases even more if you want to sell that tower. (Yep, I'm buying!) Even at the low end of valuation, with just 100 of their towers having a co-locator (And that is a low number for them) thats another 14.5 million dollars of value to Verizon. 15 to 25 percent of the total value of the deal may be coming from other income sources. - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 4:10 PM Subject: [WISPA] What are your customers worth? This astounds me. Read the dollar amounts and customer counts below: Verizon agrees to buy Rural Cellular http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/hCfcixdgyzwWwZCibGluwtpU?format=standard Verizon Wireless is snapping up Rural Cellular in a deal valued at $2.67 billion. The deal will boost Verizon's subscriber numbers by more than 700,000. The Washington Post/Reuters A bit of quick math says that they are paying over $3,000.00 per customer for this company. Obviously WISPs are not able to command such valuations but it is interesting to see what the bigger guys will value top end wireless companies Scriv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] SB and Tranzeo compatibility
There is apparently a problem with Atheros based APs and Prism based clients (Tranzeo CPE200, Seneao CB3Deluxe, others) We recently upgraded from Prism based APs to SR2 and XR2 APs in several key locations. The way it was explained to me is that there is a bug (Atheros AP, Prism Client) where the client doesn' t know that its been disassociated, and it takes a while to re-associate. I have seen this when changing channels on the AP, and other things. It may take up to 10 minutes for the client to re associate. Another thing I have found (with the help of Butch Evans) is that lowering the power on the Xr2 cards REALLY helps with client upload rates (improves sensitivity). I don't know if that has anything to do with the problem you are describing here, but I wouldn't be surprised. pd Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I want my cpe 200's back!!! marlon - Original Message - From: Blair Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] SB and Tranzeo compatibility Recently, I've had problems with CPQ's connecting to Atheros based Mesh AP's. They work for a bit then stop communicating. If I reset them to factory defaults and then reconfigure them, they sometimes start working again. Currently, I just move the units that stop talking to my Atheros based AP's to locations with Prisiam or Hermes based AP's. This is, of course, not a long term fix as I am slowly removing the Hermes and Prisiam based AP's from my network Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Anyone else running into problems with the newer CPQ radios and their existing SB access points? I'm seeing either total non functioning systems or intermittent problems. The symptom is that the CPQ can't see the AP's ssid. Rebooting the AP sometimes helps, temporarily. This did NOT happen with the CPE-200 units. And did NOT happen with older CPQ radios (that I'd noticed anyway). I run all radios in bridge mode, changing the preamble doesn't help. Any ideas? Am I alone with this problem? Swapping to the new Teletronics TT2400 aps (nice working units so far!!!) cures the problem. Swapping out 20 towers worth of APs isn't something I'm excited about doing though. HHEEEP Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] It's Rhody Days here in Florence Oregon
I suppose that this is an obvious point here, and your post may have been made with a shadow of sarcasm, but... I am not knocking your $5k spent on the commercial and festival sponsorship, or the $250 for the WISPA membership, but trying to compare their value is kind of like comparing $0.99 mousetraps to $99 snow tires. Both (or neither) may be a bargain, depending on your goals. I don't think any potential customers read the WISPA list, and I don't think anyone who sees my advertising can help me understand the problems I have with my Atheros chipset Mikrotik AP's. Ultimately, knowledge is power. There is value in getting the knowledge of your business to the customer, and there is value in getting knowledge of the industry into your head. Education and advertisements are kind of like sewer service and water service. I don't want to trade one for the other. I kind of need both of them. pd George Rogato wrote: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that a Premium Distinguished Sponsor of this Chamber of Commerce is only $5,000.00 per year. 5 grand and I get a bunch of advertising, that does not have any immediate return. So I get a couple commercials and my name is always thanked on the radio during festivals and such. Next big one is Chowder Blues and Brews Festival. Now compare that to the very low and very affordable price of 250.00 per year that it cost me to be a member in good standing in the most exclusive Wireless Internet Service Provider Association is the world. One that gives me up to the minute news and information from all you insiders point of view in this wonderful world of wispdom. Which is the better value? WISPA $250.00 dues that make you smarter and better or Local Community Support $5,000.00 George Rogato wrote: My home town is celebrating our 100th Rhody Festival. It's the biggest celebration here on the Central Oregon Coast. The town fills up with motorcycles and we have parades, celebrations and a lot of fun. People come from all over the country for the weekend. We are also a Distinguished Sponsor of the Florence Chamber of Commerce. Part of the dues is the local TV station does a nice commercial. Here's mine: http://www.oregonfast.net/gofast/Commercial/YourConnection.mov -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] A Box
http://itwatchdogs.com/ Exactly what you are describing. pd Blake Bowers wrote: I need a box. What I want is a 802.11 type box, that has alarm contacts. When the alarm contact is triggered (N/C N/O) then it would send an email. The box would probably have an IP address that would allow it to be connected to the local WISP, as well as a wired connection that could be connected to a router. Maybe a SCADA device. Picture the possiblities. A large manufacturing complex could keep track of all their functions - and security, through a WISP, even geographically diverse locations. Any ideas? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Try it out vs. Cingular
The $10/mo for web access with Sprint ONLY applies to the use on the phone. When you plug in the data cable, and use it as a modem, its like $0.30/kb. Learning that lesson cost me. The unlimited phone-as-a-modem or data card rate is around $39/mo. Does anyone know if there are drivers/capabilities to link a data card to a Mikrotik or StarOS box? I guess that there are other Linux drivers out there, so my thinking may work. I have considered for some time the possibilities of making a box to mount in my car (car-puter) with a Sprint (or Cingular, or Verizon, or whoever) cellular type data connection, with a WIFI client as the primary (or secondary) mode of connection. With DDNS, access to the dash mounted camera, GPS stream, etc should be easy enough, making it a roll-your-own LowJack type system. Also, in the car, an ethernet jack to plug a laptop into could be nice, as well as opening the possibilities to put in an ATA to make VOIP calls, as well as adding a WIFI AP. $39/mo for unlimited data connectivity, especially if it gives the speed/latency required to do VOIP, seems like a bargain compared to $129/mo for 2000 minutes. I guess a Windows-based system could do all of those things, but the RAM/processor/etc/boot time/bluescreens associated with Windoze don't seem to make it conducive to this type of project, IMO. The car-puter installation plan things that I have read about seem to focus on GPS and MP3 playing. Since my wreck 6 yrs ago, where I couldn't prove to the insurance company (5 eyewitnesses from every direction from the intersection and a police report weren't good enough) that I had the green light. I have been thinking about a car-mounted DVR with cameras in the grill, the dash, and in the back to offer video defense in a car accident claim. Showing the judge, the insurance agent, or whoever a DVD of the video surveillance of the accident could save a lot of time and hassle. What I wish someone would sell for a car (these things probably all exist in one form or another with various systems) is a computer that will act as a: DVR security cam recorder (cam pointed at the driver seat to prosecute the car thief, + cams on bumpers to witness accidents) Data port (ethernet + WIFI AP) Web server (with DDNS support to access the stored data, even when the car is away from the house, like at an impound yard or after being stolen) MP3 player Realtime ODBII scanning/recording/diagnostics of the car. VOIP system. GPS stream recording. (to show he teenage driver when/how fast she was really driving) I would think that these things could all be incorporated for under $2k, mounted in the trunk, and it would be something that would sell like crazy for $3k installed. I guess what I would like is a retail version of this with more features: http://www.popsci.com/popsci/how20/d04305f2dbbf1110vgnvcm104eecbccdrcrd.html pd Rich Comroe wrote: What a rip! Sprint told me it's only $300-400 to get out of a Sprint contract. What's it cost to early terminate a Cingular contract? Why doesn't he just terminate? Getting a $1200 monthly bill is ridiculous! UNLIMITED data to a Sprint windows phone is only about $10/month, and there's no way to limit it to not operate tethered to a computer (other than unreasonably large download usage). And it's EVDO, so it blows away that measley 125 - 175 kbit. I really think those PCMCIA cards are a rip-off for service cost compared to just getting unlimited data service to your cellphone. I love ppc6700 windows phones ... a lot lighter and smaller than a laptop yet nearly as capable. Rich - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Try it out vs. Cingular oh, I'm most certainly under $1200, even for a whole year. :-p Anyone have experience getting out of a bad Cingular deal? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scott Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Try it out vs. Cingular Even if he can't get out of the Cingular contract, I would think paying you your normal rates would cost less than $1200 to Cingular. Suggest that your unlimited service is still less expensive than overages. Mike Hammett wrote: I have a potential customer that wanted to try out my service. He's got money, so I wasn't afraid he was looking to get something for nothing. He has Cingular now and can only get 125 - 175 kbit out of it. I clearly can provide a faster less latent service for a lower monthly cost (costs him $70/month). Apparently he wasn't on the unlimited rate plan and got hit with a $1200 bill. He doesn't think he can get out of his Cingular. *argh* That said, can anyone think of a way to hookup a
Re: [WISPA] ot OE links
There is a reg hack to fix that, but the easiest way I have found is to install or reinstall a browser (thunderbird or opera or whatever). When it finishes, and launches for the first time, it will ask if its the default browser, say yes. You can change back to IE or whatever, but the registry settings that say open http://whatever.whatever; to open in a browser will get rewritten and reset when you do that. pd Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, My laptop will no longer go to a link when clicked on via email. In OE if I click on a link it won't go there unless I copy and paste the link into a browser. I have a customer with that problem too. I'll be darned if I can find the setting that got changed to cause it. Any ideas? thanks marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
Ares Ultra costs the customer around $50 from what I hear. It ENCRYPTS the P2P traffic, and the Mikrotik will NOT recognize it as P2P traffic, so it will take EVERY AVAILABLE PACKET that your AP can push out. The way I have dealt with this is to disable the client (at the radio level) and when they call, I tell them that we cannot support P2P applications. If they demand that they have to do it, and refuse to quit, then I uninstall them, and suggest that they get their broadband elsewhere. I haven't found a more effective way to make it work. pd Mark Nash wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. Have you come across this? Can it be dealt with? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
Ares Ultra costs the customer around $50 from what I hear. It ENCRYPTS the P2P traffic, and the Mikrotik will NOT recognize it as P2P traffic, so it will take EVERY AVAILABLE PACKET that your AP can push out. The way I have dealt with this is to disable the client (at the radio level) and when they call, I tell them that we cannot support P2P applications. If they demand that they have to do it, and refuse to quit, then I uninstall them, and suggest that they get their broadband elsewhere. I haven't found a more effective way to make it work. pd Mark Nash wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. Have you come across this? Can it be dealt with? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Is anyone thinking about 17 and 60 ghz?
My understanding about 60ghz (what I remember reading anyway) is that its good for 1000mbps data links, but MAX distance of 1Mile, since O2 (Oxygen) resonates at 60ghz. It was originally used for spy satellite to spy satellite links (in space), since it couldn't conceivably be picked up by any antenna on the ground, friend or foe. pd Mario Pommier wrote: Bridgewave 60Ghz works excellently! Very nice stuff. Full Gbps full duplex speeds. Few computers or laptops, if any at all, can reach those speeds. Our sysadmin figured a way to test capacity with Cisco switches on both ends by flooding the link. Expensive. Yes. I only see it possible to be deployed in 100%-paid-for PtP projects: medical, government, industrial -- anyway it won't go more than ~700meters, the drier the area the better. If I understood correctly, the US Gov bans US 60Ghz manufacturers from exporting their gear outside the US because when the US military goes somewhere they can't find 60Ghz links -- that's how secure it is: very narrow beamwidths (~1*) and complete signal fade after about 1mile. If you don't know the link is there (or you can't see the antennas) it's practically impossible to find the stuff. Whereas for licensed 70 and 80Ghz all you need to do is look in the FCC website to know who deployed what-where-when and how. Regarding deployment: you need TOTAL LOS. Even branches blowing in and out of the path will drop the link. Mario Dawn DiPietro wrote: Mark, I think 60 Ghz is a good solution if you can afford it. At this point it is still not in the price range of the average WISP but it is great stuff. I think Matt Liotta had a link or 2 with some 60 Ghz gear. Regards, Dawn DiPietro wispa wrote: In the search for the bigger last mile pipe, there's unlicensed at both 17 and 60 ghz. I'm not sure if the consumer electronics industry is up for working at 60 ghz, but what about 17 ghz? Google gets me a lot of theoretical work at both, and engineering discussions of both, but nothing that looks like something otehr than talkware. Mark Koskenmaki Neofast, Inc Broadband for the Walla Walla Valley and Blue Mountains 541-969-8200 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School wants authentication
I think the Mikrotik hotspot would work well for you. The flexibility is nice. You can edit the HTML code. At one location, a hotel, the users click the link that would be normally for demo available, but it says I agree to terms and service The user/pw entries are hidden. The demo is set for 24 hrs, with re-allow login set to 1 second. At another location, I hid the password, and gave the users login names and blank passwords. This simplifies the login process, and the user's names are their last names. One login at a time. In this situation, you can use the standard user/pw in the school. Put in user/pw pairs of student ID number (or SS number) and the last name for the pw. If there are a LOT of students, a radius server would be logical. This gives the students the idea that their activity is logged, and their access is subject to revocation. This allows you to disable accounts for those who abuse the service. If you do this, you can leave the Access points all open with little risk for theft of service. pd John Scrivner wrote: I have a customer who is a high school. They have fiber run to switches in 10 buildings. All of those buildings are connected through one giant private class B via a DHCP server. We serve wireless to 100% of the campus, indoors and out, over this same network with several bridged APs (all certified and not exceeding any power rules - I promise). They would like authentication of users. I tried setting WPA2 with Radius Auth and created a mess. Every time the AP signal would hand off from one AP to another (which happens every couple of minutes or more often) the system would force re-authentication. It is a bit of a mess. Configuration of Windows XP for Radius Auth on WPA2 reminds me of the bad old days of having to tweak Trumpet Winsock or dealing with Windows Dial-up Adapter version 1.0. We had another issue with the APs just constantly forcing re-authentication via Radius. We have opted for WPA2 Passphrase to deliver AES encryption for now. This still leaves us with the authentication issue. They currently have a DHCP server with zero logging of users. People just connect and get an IP. It is a mess. I want to propose a better solution. I would like to see an authentication solution via a hotspot portal or equivalent which would force credentials be delivered by a user before any user has access to anything via wired or wireless network. Does anyone know a good way to do this? I have many ideas but I have never really done this and I would like to hear what others would propose to see if my ideas mesh or not. It is also good to see how others handle this type of situation. I am leaning to a Mikrotik hotspot gateway which I think will do it all. What say the rest of you? Scriv No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.6/709 - Release Date: 3/3/2007 08:12 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Routers
Trendnet has a 5 year warranty. Closer to lifetime than most. pd Peter R. wrote: Who has a lifetime warranty? KyWiFi LLC wrote: Yes, I'm serious. Lots of companies offer a lifetime warranty. If they have a good product, they should stand behind it. If their product is junk, then... Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Climbing Harness
OSHA (or some big insurance co maybe) recently required that all harnesses on oil rigs were to be replaced with fireproof ones, at least for welders. The yellow nylon ones that are popular with WISPs, etc all showed up on the used market in big quantity. Many of them with minimal wear or apparent damage. My friend who worked on a offshore rig, who climbs for me sometimes said they threw out about 100 of them, many still new in the package. Since they get on/off the rig via chopper, and the personal bags weight is very limited, he couldn't easily bring any home, and I suspect that they ended up like most of the refuse on the rig... at the bottom of the Gulf. Not suggesting that anyone buy a used harness, but just trying to put some possible explanation out there as to why they are there. pd chris cooper wrote: Tessco has them. Although- I went to my local outdoor store/pawn shop last week. They had a whole rack full of climbing harnesses that had been pawned. Not quite sure how to read that one. chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 3:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Climbing Harness Hello Fellow WISP's I need to purchase a tower climbing harness. If you have one to sell, great, if you know of a company that sells them that would be great too. Thanks, Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPsec/UDP and my border NAT gateway
My approach is a little more lazy than most firewall management people provide, I suspect. If a customer isn't able to function within the set of firewall rules that I have set for most of the customers, I add his IP to a whitelist list of IP addresses in my firewall. These addresses don't get any firewalling. If the SRC IP or DST IP is in the whitelist range, then the packet gets accepted. My justification: The main purpose of the firewall is to protect the customer from viruses, vulnerabilities, and the like. It also potentially protects you from things like 'getting your IP range on a spam RBL', but the firewall is mainly to benefit the subscribers. If a customer has gotten this far, he sounds like he has his own NAT firewall at least, and probably doesn't need your protection at the border. Pete Davis NoDial.net rabbtux rabbtux wrote: Anyone have suggestions on what I need to do to allow my customer to do this type of VPN. I currently have customers behind my linux/iptables firewall that masquerades them out a single IP. This is the first customer who is having problems. Do I need a special rule to accomodate them?? The customer is using CenterBeam VPN services, and they tell him that, your isp is blocking VPN pass thru. I'm not blocking anything. help! Thank you kindly, marshall -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ot---Fw: Please note Schafer, Marlon that this is your Final Notice of Domain Extension
For the past several years, I have added a second line to my address when I register my domains. Now, when any mail comes with my name, street address, then Building 64, Sector 7G and then city,state, then I know that is is junk mail, and I know where they gleaned my address from. Its funny to see how much junk paper mail and email comes that way, especially wanting me to register similar domain names. pd Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Final NoticeAnhone seen a deal like this before? We do NOT currently own the www.odessawa.us domain. Looks like a registration scam to me. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Domain Notification Central To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:01 AM Subject: Please note Schafer, Marlon that this is your Final Notice of Domain Extension Domain Notification Central 130 Church Street Suite 280 New York, NY 10007 Web: www.domainnotifications.org Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 1-800-270-5944 FINAL NOTICE ATT: Schafer, Marlon ADMINISTRATIVE CONTACT [EMAIL PROTECTED] Address: Rt 2 Box S Odessa 99159 Phone: (509) 982-2181 www.ODESSAWA.us Notice Tracking Number: 761496 Please be advised that the above noted domain name has now become available for registration. Consequently the possibility of a conflicting domain registration may occur. IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE UNITED STATES LEGAL CODE TITLE 15, Sec 1125. False descriptions, and dilution of Trademarks and the Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy (UDRP) Be advised: Protecting a domain name registrant or trademark owner from confusing and/or conflicting domain name registrations is not the responsibility of the domain and trademark registration processes. In the event of a registration of the above noted domain by a third party, the UDRP may be applied under the following conditions. Evidence of Registration and Use in Bad Faith. - For the purposes of Paragraph 4(a)(iii), the following circumstances, in particular but without limitation, if found by the Panel to be present, shall be evidence of the registration and use of a domain name in bad faith: (i) circumstances indicating that the domain name registered or acquired the domain name primarily for the purpose of selling, renting, or otherwise transferring the domain name registration to the complainant who is the owner of the trademark or service mark or a competitor of that complainant, for valuable consideration in excess of your documented out-of-pocket costs directly related to the domain name; or (ii) the domain name has been registered in order to prevent the owner of the trademark or service mark from reflecting the mark in a corresponding domain name, provided that you have engaged in a pattern of such conduct; or (iii) the domain name has been registered primarily for the purpose of disrupting the business of a competitor; or (iv) by using the domain name, registrant has intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to their web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement or your web site or location or of a product or service of a web site or location. In addition to remedies provided for by the URDP, section 4a (1)(2)(3) b (1)(2)(3)(4) existing registrants, trademark and service mark owners are provided by DUC on domain names that are identical with new ccTLD, TLD extentions, or domain names that are confusingly similar to their own. You are required to advise the Domain Notification Central of your intent to license this name on or before the expiration of this notice. Note: you may disregard this notice. If you disregard this notice or fail to reply: (a) The licensing rights of this domain name may be assigned to any other applicant, (b) DUC and or any ICANN accredited registrar will not be liable for loss of domain name license, identical or confusingly similar use of your company's domain name; or
Re: [WISPA] The WISP that walked away
What I would do: Put in an AP, see who associates. If the leasing company decides to repo their CPE, let them. The customer will (hopefully) call you, and you can go out and put in a new CPE. At that time, the cable will probably still be in place, and you will know that the CPE will work where it was mounted. Treat the CPE as if you own them, and replace them as if they failed in the event of a repo. In the mean time, you might get 12 months revenue off of the abandoned CPE, and the leasing company won't have any legal reason to charge you anything, since your name isn't on the contract. Its not unethical, IMO. The leasing company is getting the shaft from the lessee, but its not really your problem. If the leasing company contacts you, or if you contact them, or whatever, I wouldn't offer them NEAR retail to buy them back. Short answer: Swoop. The hard part has been done by the guy who walked. pd Mike Ireton wrote: An operator in my local area, covering a small area I would nevertheless like to have, recently just upped and walked away from his operation, leaving all cpe in place and some very confused customers who were told to go get cable or dsl. He was very short with me in email and indicated that the equipment was leased and that he had had enough with trying to scratch out something more than an avarage living and is glad to be rid of it and out of the business, and no further communication will be possible, end of story. Ethics question: Do I swoop in with my own backhaul and reactivate the system using the existing cpe units (mostly motorola, right up our alley), or do we build a new system from scratch and avoid these now defunct cpe's like the plauge? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Linux distro for the desktop
I think I can answer why I like freebsd. Stability. Uptime for months at a time. Most of the problems that I have had with my Freebsd servers have been when I was doing something stupid that I now know better. Also, it may be used completely free of charge, even if it is used commercially. The licensing of linux flavor of the month is not quite so clear. It is used by MANY large commercial web farms, universities, and other entities. It has widespread use enough that if you find a problem with it, the solution is probably online somewhere. In other words, its a more mature operating system than most Linux flavors. Just my $0.02. Not trying to create a flame war. Pete Davis NoDial.net Tom DeReggi wrote: Butch, Not to start a debate on whats best, but for informative reasons... Why do people that prefer FreeBSD prefer FreeBSD? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Butch Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Wispa List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] Linux distro for the desktop I am a FreeBSD guy. Heart and soul. However, I am in the process of evaluating which Linux distro I want to put on my laptop. I would just go with FreeBSD, but I want to try this Linux thing...FreeBSD makes the BEST server platform (no flames, please), but their desktop OS is not the best. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Linux distro for the desktop
You are exactly right. There are good linux distros out there. I have used several of them. Some are great desktop OS's. Some are good for the small footprint. Some are great for making bootable CD's to run antivirus/data recovery apps, and some are great for making roll-your-own routers and firewalls. Some are good for playing games, and some are good for emulating Windows apps. Some are easy to install, and some are not. Some are easy to install with a GUI, and some are not. Some are well documented, and some are not. Some will run on a 386 with 1M RAM, and some won't run on anything less than a PIII with 256M. There are as many distros out there as there are opinions as to who has the best distro. You can order a new server from any Tier1 PC manufacturer with Linux installed. It has become mainstream. For a stable, conservative, always-up server, I like to run the latest stable release of Freebsd. I like their version nomenclature, and the documentation. There are many ports for many server apps ready to run on FreeBSD. The syntax for the command lines are familiar to me. Its the same reason that I run Windows on my daily desktop. Its what I am used to. Pete Davis NoDial.net. Ryan Langseth wrote: Come on you gotta give better reasons than this ;) Good non-flavor of the month distros. Don't lump the whole base into the same box. Yea there are as many linux distros as there are linux geeks ;) Take my favorite distro, debian: On Fri, 2007-01-12 at 19:17 -0600, Pete Davis wrote: I think I can answer why I like freebsd. Stability. Uptime for months at a time. Most of the problems that I have had with my Freebsd servers have been when I was doing something stupid that I now know better. Ditto Also, it may be used completely free of charge, even if it is used commercially. The licensing of linux flavor of the month is not quite so clear. ditto It is used by MANY large commercial web farms, universities, and other entities. ditto It has widespread use enough that if you find a problem with it, the solution is probably online somewhere. ditto In other words, its a more mature operating system than most Linux flavors. thats just flame bait ;) Just my $0.02. Not trying to create a flame war. ditto Honestly though there are some great reason to use *BSD: 1 Awesome TCP/IP stack, although linux's has gotten better. 2 Ports, up to date software, with very simple commands 3 great firewall(s) ipfw, ipf, and pf (iptables syntax is, bloated at best compared to ipf and pf, I can't speak for ipfw) 4 Simple kernel in BSD, I _do not_ like the fact that 2.6 is still a developing kernel ... thats what 2.7 is supposed to be for. 5 Solid, Stable design. No major changes within the core system. Linux's popularity is also it detriment, not only due to crackers but due to its own internal developers, code splits, weak code, poor audits due to the shear number of people working on it. At its core though it is still secure. The reason I use debian linux, is because of it package management and focus on being stable, secure, and free. I understand how to use it and can work it very well. I will be looking at using OpenBSD or FreeBSD as my firewall system for my new server room. PF + Carp, rocks! Ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] sr5/wrap
I deployed a WRAP 2C with a Sr5 and Prism2511mp, 18VDC POE, and I had a constant problem with it rebooting until I replaced the WRAP with a Routerboard 532A. I put the little MiniPCI riser card thing on it, and put 2x Prism2511's, 1x SR5 and 1x Sr2. Its been running pretty reliably since then. pd chris cooper wrote: Hi- We have some wrap/sr5/mikrotik combinations to deploy. We have bench tested them and can only get them up to @ 300 mw. We can get 398 with wrap/mikrotik using the sr2s. Both are using the 18v poe. Any ideas? Thanks Chris Intelliwave -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g
Yes, you paid for it, then broadcast it completely unencrypted into the airspace that is in my car, that is perfectly legally parked in the street. If your apple tree drops an apple in my yard, it is free for me to eat. You paid for the water, the fertilizer, and the minerals to create the fruit, but it became my fruit win it landed in my yard. pd Scott Reed wrote: Ah, but it does cost me the monthly fee. And if you use it, it is because I paid the fee, not you. There, seems to me it is theft, you are using what I paid for without paying. Pete Davis wrote: I suppose that the only real difference is that you can drive up within a few hundred feet of any house with a unsecured wireless network, and get online without anyone knowing (or caring most of the time). Its more like walking up and getting a drink from your water hose in your yard than JohnnyO's analogy of using your wife. A sip of water from the hose or 5 minutes on your wireless router neither one significantly costs anyone. While it is technically stealing it is hard to suggest that it costs the paying subscriber has sustained any monetary loss or any cost of real performance, internet speed, or water pressure. If his files on his PC were shared on his insecure WLAN, and you drove up and snooped/altered/deleted them, then it would seem that there is grounds for vandalism/business interruption, unauthorized information access, etc, etc. If I walk up to your water hose, steal it, cut it, or run several hoses together and fill my 30,000 gallon pool, or stick it in your window and flood your house, then there is a problem, and a real issue, and a crime has been committed, since it legitimately costs you real money to remedy. If I drive near your home, get on the internet, check my email, make a VOIP call, look up a stock price, or whatever, then I don't suspect anyone will complain, or know that I did it. It also won't cost you anything. If I sit out there for hours downloading copyright violations (P2P) or cracking your file server, or send 10,000,000 spam messages getting your IP added to the RBL's, then there is a real issue. An emergency communication plan that includes war driving to establish VOIP is akin to a fire department that plans to put out fires with a series of garden hoses and outside hose bibs instead of installing real fire hydrants. As far as the legality of war driving, I am not sure that MOST war driving is catch-able convict-able or quantify-able (in the cost to the customer) or whatever. Its also against the law to sample grapes at the grocery store. I don't do that, but I am sure that people have done that for years. I have never even heard of anyone getting in trouble for it. (war driving or grape sampling). I suppose that if you got greedy with either one, you would get your hand slapped. Pete Davis NoDial.net. Rick Smith wrote: ah yes, but then you would've had a cop knock on the front door, and ASK your permission to use the phone. At which point, you COULD say NO! and shut the door on them. Or, you could let them in, and tell them OK! here it is! BUT...They wouldn't do the equivalent of walking up to your NID, plugging a butt set in and just dialing away... If I, right now, drove up in front of your house, got out of my truck, walked up to your Network panel that Verizon or the local phone co. put there as their demarcation point, and plugged my butt set in and got dial tone and dialed Hawaii to chat with someone at YOUR expense, I could be found / shot / arrested / sued / what have you. What's different with WiFi ? Nothing but the excuses we allow people to continue to make. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g The legality and ethics of using an open access point is questionable, but there is a liability issue as well. In most of the areas that I cover with my network, there is a strong signal with SSID of NoDial. Connecting to this will get you a DHCP address even, without a WEP or other encryption key. Until I know that you have connected and moved your mac address to a list that authorizes your connection, all of your outbound packets will be sent to http://64.123.108.28:80 This brings up a liability issue. If the emergency communication van tech wastes 2 hrs trying to get hold of me, get connected to the internet, or whatever, and $10M of houses burn down, because they couldn't get to the fire department via a hacked VOIP solution, then am I gonna get sued? If they connect to my private home network that I intentionally left open, and my custom made uber-hacker passive/aggressive firewall unleashes a blackops virus that turns their laptops into bricks. Then what? I guess, that by JohnnyO's example, if you come into my open
Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g
The legality and ethics of using an open access point is questionable, but there is a liability issue as well. In most of the areas that I cover with my network, there is a strong signal with SSID of NoDial. Connecting to this will get you a DHCP address even, without a WEP or other encryption key. Until I know that you have connected and moved your mac address to a list that authorizes your connection, all of your outbound packets will be sent to http://64.123.108.28:80 This brings up a liability issue. If the emergency communication van tech wastes 2 hrs trying to get hold of me, get connected to the internet, or whatever, and $10M of houses burn down, because they couldn't get to the fire department via a hacked VOIP solution, then am I gonna get sued? If they connect to my private home network that I intentionally left open, and my custom made uber-hacker passive/aggressive firewall unleashes a blackops virus that turns their laptops into bricks. Then what? I guess, that by JohnnyO's example, if you come into my open door and try to visit with my wife, and you step on a rake that gives you a brain anurism, I guess that makes me guilty (or not guilty) of manslaughter. I lost score in this ballgame. If the cops are in a pursuit in my neighborhood, and run their squad car off the road breaking the radio, and they want to use my home phone to call the office, I would let them. Not because I HAVE to, but to be a good citizen. If I HAD to, then the 4th amendment just went out the window. pd Jack Unger wrote: Holy brainfade, JohnnyO. Your comments about highly illegal just went STRAIGHT over my head. What's illegal about Brian's emergency communications operation? Hams have been providing emergency communications services since (literally) the sinking of the Titanic. jack JohnnyO wrote: Brian - Ham Operator or not - do you realize that what you're planning on doing is HIGHLY illegal and has several people over the past 2 yrs in Federal Prison as we speak ? Why don't ya'll get a VSAT system that works well for VOIP ? The cost is only about $60/mo more and you have no restrictions on bandwidth or stupid filtering like Wild Blue does JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 2:56 PM To: WISPA List Subject: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g I'm looking for a good client radio to use in an emergency communications vehicle. My criteria are, POE, highest gain panel antenna possible, scan/survey tool built in, web interface, 802.11b at minimum. I'm part of a ham radio emergency response group and we have our own comms van. I want to have a client radio that we can use on a push up mast to scan around for an open access point and grab bandwidth in an emergency on a scene. We respond with our county Hazmat team for support and the internet is handy. We already have a Wild Blue setup and that will work when necessary but I would like to be able to use something with lower latency so we can implement VOIP at times. I have not studied the 802.11b outdoor client radios in a long time and thought I would ask opinions here. Price is a consideration but the feature set is more important. Id' like to stay away from YDI/Proxim just because of their attitude on the phone whenever I have dealt with them. If any of you can point me to a link were I can purchase one that would be great. Have a nice day. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g
I suppose that the only real difference is that you can drive up within a few hundred feet of any house with a unsecured wireless network, and get online without anyone knowing (or caring most of the time). Its more like walking up and getting a drink from your water hose in your yard than JohnnyO's analogy of using your wife. A sip of water from the hose or 5 minutes on your wireless router neither one significantly costs anyone. While it is technically "stealing" it is hard to suggest that it costs the paying subscriber has sustained any monetary loss or any cost of real performance, internet speed, or water pressure. If his files on his PC were shared on his insecure WLAN, and you drove up and snooped/altered/deleted them, then it would seem that there is grounds for vandalism/business interruption, unauthorized information access, etc, etc. If I walk up to your water hose, steal it, cut it, or run several hoses together and fill my 30,000 gallon pool, or stick it in your window and flood your house, then there is a problem, and a real issue, and a crime has been committed, since it legitimately costs you real money to remedy. If I drive near your home, get on the internet, check my email, make a VOIP call, look up a stock price, or whatever, then I don't suspect anyone will complain, or know that I did it. It also won't cost you anything. If I sit out there for hours downloading copyright violations (P2P) or cracking your file server, or send 10,000,000 spam messages getting your IP added to the RBL's, then there is a real issue. An emergency communication plan that includes "war driving" to establish VOIP is akin to a fire department that plans to put out fires with a series of garden hoses and outside hose bibs instead of installing real fire hydrants. As far as the legality of war driving, I am not sure that MOST war driving is "catch-able" "convict-able" or "quantify-able" (in the cost to the customer) or whatever. Its also against the law to sample grapes at the grocery store. I don't do that, but I am sure that people have done that for years. I have never even heard of anyone getting in trouble for it. (war driving or grape sampling). I suppose that if you got greedy with either one, you would get your hand slapped. Pete Davis NoDial.net. Rick Smith wrote: ah yes, but then you would've had a cop knock on the front door, and ASK your permission to use the phone. At which point, you COULD say "NO!" and shut the door on them. Or, you could let them in, and tell them "OK! here it is!" BUT...They wouldn't do the equivalent of walking up to your NID, plugging a butt set in and just dialing away... If I, right now, drove up in front of your house, got out of my truck, walked up to your Network panel that Verizon or the local phone co. put there as their demarcation point, and plugged my butt set in and got dial tone and dialed Hawaii to chat with someone at YOUR expense, I could be found / shot / arrested / sued / what have you. What's different with WiFi ? Nothing but the excuses we allow people to continue to make. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] recommendation for Client POE integrated radio for 802.11b/g The legality and ethics of using an open access point is questionable, but there is a liability issue as well. In most of the areas that I cover with my network, there is a strong signal with SSID of NoDial. Connecting to this will get you a DHCP address even, without a WEP or other encryption key. Until I know that you have connected and moved your mac address to a list that authorizes your connection, all of your outbound packets will be sent to http://64.123.108.28:80 This brings up a liability issue. If the emergency communication van tech wastes 2 hrs trying to get hold of me, get connected to the internet, or whatever, and $10M of houses burn down, because they couldn't get to the fire department via a hacked VOIP solution, then am I gonna get sued? If they connect to my private home network that I intentionally left open, and my custom made uber-hacker passive/aggressive firewall unleashes a blackops virus that turns their laptops into bricks. Then what? I guess, that by JohnnyO's example, if you come into my open door and try to visit with my wife, and you step on a rake that gives you a brain anurism, I guess that makes me guilty (or not guilty) of manslaughter. I lost score in this ballgame. If the cops are in a pursuit in my neighborhood, and run their squad car off the road breaking the radio, and they want to use my home phone to call the office, I would let them. Not because I HAVE to, but to be a good citizen. If I HAD to, then the 4th amendment just went out the window. pd Jack Unger wrote: Holy brainfade, Joh
Re: [WISPA] Cool ideas for RouterOS....
I like those, and would like to probably implement them myself. Here are some of my ideas/wishlist. I would like to see the script equivalent of DenyHosts. [see http://denyhosts.sourceforge.net] whereas if password authentication fails (telnet, ssh, ftp) from the same outside IP 5 (or so) times in a row, that IP gets dynamically added to the blacklist address list, and all data to/from is denied for 12 hrs (or so). My logs are usually full of failed ssh/ftp logins from (virusinfected?) zombie PCs trying brute force dictionary login attempts. Permanently blacklisting them seems like a waste of resources/disk space. If I could get notified of any IP who sends smtp (TCP/25) traffic to more than 5 different destinations/hr(min?) that could be a good script. Some of my business clients host their own email server, so that's okay, but most clients only need to send to my SMTP server. Automatically blocking port25 for certain users who violate this (due to a virus) would be good also. I guess this is similar to your #1 and #2 ideas. A script I think would be neat, but don't have the time to implement it now, if a 2-radio routerboard/wrap/whatever could be mounted in the van with an omni antenna on the roof (or bumper) connected to the client radio, and automatically associate to the nearest non-secure (or secure if it has our client WEP key) AP (with a SSID other than THENODIALVAN), then nat/rebroadcast on a weaker AP (with a duckie antenna), with the SSID of THENODIALVAN then it would be kind of the ultimate war driving vehicle. Another script to VPN tunnel into the office on demand so the techs could get/file paperwork from their laptops. Wire in a Lingo/Vonage/whatever VOIP phone, and cell phone bills to/from the technicians could drop considerably. Please don't respond to this one telling me how the cops are gonna take away my freedoms for connecting to an insecure home wireless network. I know its wrong to steal bandwidth, and I don't want a new 100 response opinion fest. Please keep your is too/is not to yourself. I know that this idea is ethically questionable. Another reason why I won't be implementing it any time soon. Winbox feature wishlist: I would like to be able to sort my DHCP leases by the comment field. I would also, for that matter, be able to sort my DHCP leases by the IP address (like I could in 2.8). I like the 2.9 capability of assigning a dhcp lease to a specific pool, but then sorting by IP address now just seems to randomize the order. If I could sort by IP address, then have all of my bridge leases (172.16.x.x) together, all of my customer leases (64.123.x.x) together, that would be awesome. If I could sort by comment, then finding smith, bob then finding smith, bob - bridge to see if either/both have an active lease would be MUCH easier, and make life much better for my staff. Pete Davis NoDial.net Butch Evans wrote: I'd like to throw this out for the weekend. I want to gather some ideas for IMPLEMENTATIONS you'd like to see with existing RouterOS technology. I have a few that I can think of off the top of my head that I will try to get documented (some possibly for free - to be posted on my website). For example: 1. Automated virus detection - this application would need to be able to detect virus like activity (whatever that means) and automatically cause the offender - if they are on-net - to be disconnected except for the ability to visit http://housecall.antivirus.com and test to see if they have removed the virus(es) before allowing full access again. 2. Automatically build a list of valid SMTP servers based on servers that have been used to check email (I've done this one several times). This will prevent those viruses and spam trojans from getting your IP blacklisted if you NAT. 3. Queue mechanism that implements an automated fair access policy (similar to what some of the satellite companies do) - I have done something SIMILAR to this, but implementing this properly will take a bit more work. OK...So I've got you started...now step forth with your ideas (either implemented already or just a wish-list) and let's come up with some really cool stuff! While we're at it, you can let me know what you think of the above ideas...are they worth the effort? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Cool ideas for RouterOS....
Scott Reed wrote: A little extension on one of these, WinBox sort on any field by clicking the header. Somewhat standard Windows operation. WinBox for Linux. I have run Winbox on WINE in Linux or in WINE on Linux. Whatever. Need a better way to clone CPEs. If I am building 15 CPEs today, I would like to be able to plug it in, push a configuration to it and have it ready to deploy. Even better would be to have the IP address auto increment as it loads. Going farther, read the configuration parameters out of a MySQL database, build the configuration and push it to the RB. Yeah, nice idea. Kind of like a IEAK for RouterOS. (Internet Explorer Administration Kit allows for ISP or Corporate browser customization for Internet Explorer deployment). It would almost have to be an offline/offsite configuration building/editing utility to do all of that. Pete Davis wrote: I like those, and would like to probably implement them myself. Here are some of my ideas/wishlist. I would like to see the script equivalent of DenyHosts. [see http://denyhosts.sourceforge.net] whereas if password authentication fails (telnet, ssh, ftp) from the same outside IP 5 (or so) times in a row, that IP gets dynamically added to the blacklist address list, and all data to/from is denied for 12 hrs (or so). My logs are usually full of failed ssh/ftp logins from (virusinfected?) zombie PCs trying brute force dictionary login attempts. Permanently blacklisting them seems like a waste of resources/disk space. If I could get notified of any IP who sends smtp (TCP/25) traffic to more than 5 different destinations/hr(min?) that could be a good script. Some of my business clients host their own email server, so that's okay, but most clients only need to send to my SMTP server. Automatically blocking port25 for certain users who violate this (due to a virus) would be good also. I guess this is similar to your #1 and #2 ideas. A script I think would be neat, but don't have the time to implement it now, if a 2-radio routerboard/wrap/whatever could be mounted in the van with an omni antenna on the roof (or bumper) connected to the client radio, and automatically associate to the nearest non-secure (or secure if it has our client WEP key) AP (with a SSID other than THENODIALVAN), then nat/rebroadcast on a weaker AP (with a duckie antenna), with the SSID of THENODIALVAN then it would be kind of the ultimate war driving vehicle. Another script to VPN tunnel into the office on demand so the techs could get/file paperwork from their laptops. Wire in a Lingo/Vonage/whatever VOIP phone, and cell phone bills to/from the technicians could drop considerably. Please don't respond to this one telling me how the cops are gonna take away my freedoms for connecting to an insecure home wireless network. I know its wrong to steal bandwidth, and I don't want a new 100 response opinion fest. Please keep your is too/is not to yourself. I know that this idea is ethically questionable. Another reason why I won't be implementing it any time soon. Winbox feature wishlist: I would like to be able to sort my DHCP leases by the comment field. I would also, for that matter, be able to sort my DHCP leases by the IP address (like I could in 2.8). I like the 2.9 capability of assigning a dhcp lease to a specific pool, but then sorting by IP address now just seems to randomize the order. If I could sort by IP address, then have all of my bridge leases (172.16.x.x) together, all of my customer leases (64.123.x.x) together, that would be awesome. If I could sort by comment, then finding smith, bob then finding smith, bob - bridge to see if either/both have an active lease would be MUCH easier, and make life much better for my staff. Pete Davis NoDial.net Butch Evans wrote: I'd like to throw this out for the weekend. I want to gather some ideas for IMPLEMENTATIONS you'd like to see with existing RouterOS technology. I have a few that I can think of off the top of my head that I will try to get documented (some possibly for free - to be posted on my website). For example: 1. Automated virus detection - this application would need to be able to detect virus like activity (whatever that means) and automatically cause the offender - if they are on-net - to be disconnected except for the ability to visit http://housecall.antivirus.com and test to see if they have removed the virus(es) before allowing full access again. 2. Automatically build a list of valid SMTP servers based on servers that have been used to check email (I've done this one several times). This will prevent those viruses and spam trojans from getting your IP blacklisted if you NAT. 3. Queue mechanism that implements an automated fair access policy (similar to what some of the satellite companies do) - I have done something SIMILAR to this, but implementing this properly will take a bit more work. OK...So I've got you
Re: [WISPA] ot, private chat
http://hamachi.cc has a an application with a private chat. That is a side feature in their product. The main app is a P2P VPN application that works actually very well. Everyone in your Hamachi group (up to 16 nodes in free version, 254 in the $40/yr version) can share files/printers and chat as if they were in the same physical LAN. A nice configuration-less VPN. The Nat/Nat Transversal trick: The Hamachi company (now owned by logmein.com) has the 5.0.0.0/8 subnet and every Hamachi user tunnels in and gets a 5.x.x.x IP address. The Hamachi software handles the encryption and authentication, and only uses the 5.x.x.x subnet for VPN'ing. Pete Davis NoDial.net Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, A few years back, there was a program called Blab-it. It was a private chat system. I have a couple of corporate customers that are interested in a Yahoo or MSN Messenger type application but they want it isolated to their own network (including remote offices) and they want better security. Anyone know of such a beast? I could probably handle something that rides on my server, but a system that would ride on the customer's server is what they are mostly after. thanks! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Email a Critical Service? was: A wisp who went a little too far.......
Okay, lets say that the pay-per-email program costs $0.02 to send a message. $0.01 goes to the domain registration owner of the receiving domain, and $0.01 goes to the recipient. That 100,000,000 Spam messages that my Barracuda blocked would be worth $1M, if I had let them go through in that scenario, and most/many of my users would have enough spam credit to not have to pay their invoice for a few years. The reality: all you have to pay for is bandwidth. There is no logistically feasible way (that I can see) to put a $0.02 charge on someone/everyone sending an email. If paper/printing was free the US Postal service allowed ANYONE to send ANYTHING for FREE (like the way email works) then a dump truck of junk mail would be backing up to your door every morning. The junk mail advertisers paying $0.17 for bulk mail actually subsidizes the $0.39 that we pay for first class email. Without a bulk mail discount, first class mail would be costing us $2/letter or more. pd Rick Smith wrote: I still get junk mail in my mailbox at the road. I don't like pay-per-email ideas - they (spammers) will then just pay... I think the internet really needs to revamp the smtp idea with authenticated senders. Just having a 25 port open shouldn't be enough -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 4:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Email a Critical Service? was: A wisp who went a little too far... If email becomes that important then your business becomes worth more money. I welcome it personally. Obviously we will all need to investigate ways of creating a more stable email environment than we have now. I think we will need to consider developing a pay per email platform where messages are billable. This goes both ways. It fixes the spam issue also. This is our chance to become as important to the American public as the delivery of first class mail. This is important to discuss and debate. What is better? Email is not important or is vitally important? Scriv fred wrote: Why in the world, I want to know, are organ availability notifications going out via email???!!! Seriously. How fun will it be when they start serving subpeonas and such that way - What I never got that email?? ~fred On 12/16/06, Mike Ireton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The really interesting part of this: The attack cut off service for one woman who was waiting for an e-mail notifying her about the availability of an organ transplant that she required, according to prosecutors. Because of her critical status, her provider gave her priority status and restored her access within 24 hours. Had her medical providers sent her an e-mail notifying her of a suitable organ donor and had she not responded because of her lost Internet access, she might have lost her priority for an organ, thus potentially extending the period she would have to wait for another donor, wrote prosecutors in the indictment. People are starting to believe their email is guaranteed and that their computers can be entrusted with life saving information. Worse yet, it appears these prosecutors would have trumped this up and made hay out of it had her mail not gotten there. So in another context - what if the stock pump and dump scammers started using wrapper text that mentioned organ donations to the point of poisoning the Bayesian databases of all spamassassin enabled mail servers? What if the mail has been blocked outright due to other spam filtering already in place? Or put into a quarantine and she didn't look in her quarantine box in time? Or if the sending server of the mail was on an RBL due to some other user at the site sending spam to spamcop spamtraps for example? Drama is drama. I think what this guy did was reprehensible and he certainly deserves the clink, but what he did is not any kind of threat or risk to health and safety - the stupidity of using email and computers for life saving communications IS. $0.02 Mike- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] HIPAA Problem Gets Worse
The local hospital in town, that is also the employer of my two partners, has a Cisco wireless system in place, and has had since before we were in business. SSID is turned on, DHCP is turned off, and encryption is turned on. (WEP 128bit I think) Recently, they went through an audit by an independent security agency, and while they did find some problems with insecure user passwords, the wireless lan was found to be fully HIPPA safe. Doctors use the wireless on their laptops to do their thing in the hospital, and it all seems to work fine. Pete Davis NoDial.net John Scrivner wrote: I need your help! It looks like I am going to have to go over the head of the IT guy at the area hospitals. According to the person I am speaking with I cannot even get a phone call returned from him to talk about the issues regarding wireless broadband delivery and HIPAA. The say flat out no use of wireless for connectivity to area health care centers. Can some of you please send me some success stories offlist where you installed connections to health care facilities for them to use as their intranet connections? Any references to working with their IT people to deliver a solution that met HIPAA guidelines would be nice. Once I get some of those success stories I will request a meeting with the CEO of the hospital who is a friend of mine and can help us get this done. Thanks guys, Scriv PS. Offlist your success stories to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bet they didn't plan this.. LOL
What I have seen is that if you ping google.com, your results will vary based on your DNS server. The results (especially the order) seem to vary slightly between 72.14.203.104 (www.google.com) [returns yahoo.com] 64.233.167.99 (www.google.com) [www returns w3.org] and 72.14.203.99 (www.google.com) and whatever YOUR DNS server returns. Also the indexing synronization between the multiple googleservers would make sense that different results at any given time. pd Butch Evans wrote: On Mon, 27 Nov 2006, Gino A. Villarini wrote: W3c ? 2nd came yahoo ... When I accidentally did that search, Yahoo was the first. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lighting up hotels
I am not sure what difference the marketing perspective would make for B or G. If a laptop of a hotel guest is G, it will certainly work on a B network. You can, market it as 802.11G compatible I guess. From a technical standpoint, unless the hotel guests need to share more than 6Mbps or so, there shouldn't be any real advantage for going G I don't think. Most customers just want it to work. Sam Tetherow wrote: I'm curious what other people are doing to light up hotels or building hotspots. We have been using CB3s as the APs and a routerboard for the router and backhaul. But I'm curious what kinds of setups other people have been using and what their luck has been. I don't need actual hotspot functionality, but I think it would be beneficial to offer 802.11g atleast from a 'marketing' perspective. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DHCP with a twist
I know a nearby WISP that gives his customers IP space and his CPE space on the same last 3 octets. Makes figuring out who's CPE belongs to who's equipmnent much easier: For example: Customer addr = 64.123.105.33, CPE addr: 10.123.105.33 We keep out CPE private, and customer addr public, but we aren't quite THAT organized. pd Ryan Langseth wrote: David, On Thu, 2006-11-09 at 11:23 -0600, David E. Smith wrote: As part of the ongoing (does it ever stop?) efforts to make a Better Network, I've finally started using private subnets where appropriate. I'd love to be able to better automate some parts of my network, though, and I'm not sure how to do both of 'em at the same time. (Right now, substantially our whole network uses static IP assignments everywhere, and that's not really viable long-term.) My ideal scenario would be something like this: * The AP runs a DHCP server and talks to a RADIUS server (that's easy) * When a client associates, do a RADIUS lookup to see if they should be allowed to associate (that's easy too) * Give the CPE an IP address from one subnet, then give whatever else is there an IP from a different subnet (that's the tricky part) Why not have the AP run a DHCP relay instead of a full server, have everything relayed to a central server of your choice that way IP management becomes a one stop shop. Reservations would take care of setting IPs for specific mac addresses. This is made even more complicated by the fact that many of our CPE are Senao CB3 units, which do MAC cloning and I don't think you can turn it off. (Basically, both the CPE and the customer's router, or whatever, show up in my tower as having the CPE's MAC.) We are currently setting two IPs for each customer using a cb3, one for the cb3 and one for the customer's equipment ( router, computer etc ) so you should be able to apply a different IP for each piece of equipment. If I weren't trying to conserve public IP space, this would be easy enough - just give the CPE one IP address and the customer's gear a second one. But there's really no reason for my radios to be visible to the public Internet, and it's wasteful of those sweet sweet IPs. I know there's a solution to this problem, because that's basically how most cable modem setups work. (Annoyingly, I can't get my company's wireless Internet at home, so I've got cable modem there.) The cable modem is a bit smarter than a CB3, though, thanks to DOCSIS. I'd like to do all this at the tower, instead of having to buy (or invent) new CPE if possible. Is this even possible? Anything is possible. I am planning a similar system, hopefully deployed by the first of the year. Along with our own IPs from ARIN and all new bandwidth. David Smith MVN.net Ryan Langseth invisimax.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] on call staff
When we started out, we got the phone number 277-FAST and published it everywhere. It was a land-based line with call forwarding that forwarded to my cell phone. If I needed to be out of town, or needed a day off, we would forward it to my brother's phone. When I called back customers, they would get my cell number on their callerid, and a lot of people have it, but most know to call the main number for most things. That was how it was for the first two years. 24 hrs a day, and the voicemail full constantly. Cost: Business land line with call forwarding ($40/mo) and a 2500 minute cell plan with Sprint ($125/mo) After a while, I hired the services of my friend at answer360.com, where he hosts an auto-attendant. Press 1 for sales, 2 for accounting, or 3 for service. My brother takes the first two menu items, and I take the 3rd. After 9:00pm, they go to voicemail (that gets converted to WAV format and emailed to us) Thats been going on for almost two years. (add $40/mo). If a customer loses internet after 9:00 and blows a gasket, I will usually give them my direct cell number and tell him to call me any time. Making the customer think that you care usually gets them to calm down. Most customers are willing to deal with next business day service. Now going into our 4th year, we recently rented an office, and hired an office manager/secretary. We moved the line to that office, and put on call-forward busy/call forward no answer, and call transfer/disconnect services. If Shellie doesn't answer in 3 rings, the auto attendant gets it and fowards to me or J.D. (add $400/mo rent, $1500/mo salary, and $15/mo for additional phone services) Shellie does much more than just answer the phone. She also assembles CPE kits, tests CPE that have been pulled from the field, orders stuff, schedules installs, service calls, maintains the filing, handles the petty cash, maintains the calendar, and listens to the whiners. She may hand me a list of 5 people who called with slow connectivity If they are all on the same AP, I will reboot it, or check to see if there is an out of control P2P'er on that AP deal with it, and then call them back (or have Shellie call them back) to confirm that the problem is solved. That beats 5 separate incoming calls by a long shot. If/when we are going AP maintenance, and there is an outage for 30 minutes, she can tell all of the callers that it will be back up by 4:00p, and my phone doesn't ring. This concept has been working actually rather well. Pete Davis NoDial.net George Rogato wrote: Not applicable, I've been the on-call guy for three and a half years straight. :) David Smith MVN.net I actually give out my cell phone number to my broadband subs so they can call me if they are out. I just recently started doing this. We don't have 24/7 tech support. === Virus/Spam scanned by NoDial.net === -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Friday Fun. Worlds most expensive gate chain
I see these on gates, especially where there are oilfields on the site, and several companies need access. Never seen a whole chain made from locks, though. Funny. pd Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: One of my tower sites has this chain on the main gate. It's always fun to remember where the key goes http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/images/misc/chain.htm Anyone else have similar setups? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FREE OSS and Billing Software for WiSPS
I like this statement from the DBOSS manual: Automated assignment of static IP to customer's PCs and gateways Some network applications or services require the assignment of a static IP address. Voice Over IP (VOIP) is probably the most notable of such. Normally, the assignment of a static IP address would require that the customer's PC be manually configured. TEAM avoids this by provisioning IP addresses to customers based on the IP address and the MAC address of the CPE assigned to the customer in dBOSS. Isn't that DHCP? "Automated assignment of a static IP address" pd Matt Liotta wrote: I like how they end their pitch... "The reason and dreams behind getting into the WiSP business in the first place can finally be realized by contracting with RidgeviewTel’s WiSP Services division." -Matt Brian Rohrbacher wrote: FREE OSS and Billing Software for WiSPS And then there are all the paid services. http://www.dboss-online.com/ read the pdf prices on page 22, but I emailed them and they said the prices are changing. More like $250.00 a month for 0 - 250 customers (bundled services) http://www.dboss-online.com/wisp_services.pdf Pretty neat services they offer. I'm not technical enough to do it all on my own, this looks ok. Give me some input here. Are all these services needed? How does the value look? Brian Rohrbacher -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tonight: Join SavetheInternet.com on PBS
Hmmm.. I think they DO charge the recipient of the cell call. Even if its a land line, the recipient does have to pay for service, even if it is a unlimited minutes plan. Nobody has FREE phone service. Someone pays for the dial tone, even if its VOIP. The telephone system kind of IS the original INTER(national)NET(work) just that it was in place before everyone out there was trying to hook up a computer and send each other video clips of chimpanzees lip-syncing Sonny and Cher songs. The nice thing as a provider (of the phone or the internet, or both) is that whether your customer is sending bits (or voice) or whether the customer is receiving, they are still paying you. Peering agreements between tier 1 providers only make their network better. ATT knows that if they can't get my bits to connect to websites hosted on Sprint lines, then I will find an upstream who will. Same thing if I am a hosting company. If I host using a Verizon upstream, and L3 customers cannot connect to my server, then VZ will get the boot. Same analogy applies to phones. If my Sprint phone in Texas couldn't connect me to a Verizon subscriber in West Virginia, and Sprint said it was because they couldn't get a peering agreement with Verizon, then I would discontinue the peering agreement between Sprint and my checkbook. On the other hand, as a provider, I do have the ability to give access to only my subscribers for certain perks. Some cell providers offer free mobile to mobile calling. And why not? This gets them loyalty to both customers. Other ISPs offer exclusive content (AOL, YahooDSL, etc). The exclusive video clips available offered by cell providers is a war going on now that I don't really understand, but if it brings in the customers, then good for them. If you cannot offer something more than the competitor, then you are just another ISP. To stand out from the competition, you need to offer something. Speed, reliability, security, exclusive content, price, availability to connectivity when the customer lives 14 miles out of the city limits, or whatever. Pete Davis NoDial.net Sam Tetherow wrote: The cell phone analogy is a bit off target though, unless you want to charge the recipient of the cell call. The peering wars pretty much died in 95 when the fledgling internet business wouldn't tolerate it then. I highly doubt that it would put up with it now. If ATT, VZ, L3 GX/XO/Gogent/other want/need more revenue for their pipes, they will charge more. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Peter R. wrote: Think about your cell phone. Do you get access to the entire Net or only some of it? Think about EVDO. Is it truly unlimited or are there rules and enforcement? It is not inconceivable that VZ and ATT would design a Prodigy type service and call it the Internet. Personally, I would like to see a Truth in Advertising type law in effect in place of NN, but it is conceivable that to get access to all eyeballs you may have to buy 3 or 4 feeds - ATT, VZ, L3 GX/XO/Cogent/other. If peering changes, the ripple effect would be crazy. Most carriers don't have the margin to change from peering to transit. It isn't any one single thing happening that worries me, it is the conflugence of so many things happening at the same time. - Peter Sam Tetherow wrote: Ain't going to happen, Net Neutrality is another y2k, all hype, little to no substance. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC)
I can't see charging for a failed site survey, but we do turn down customers that we know that we cannot reach. If we fail 3 customers on Pebble Ridge Drive, then customer numbers 4 and 5 probably won't get a truck roll, but the HOA in the area might get a call to see if we can put in an AP on that street. If we can make something big and (not too) ugly work, we might call back all 5 customers, as well as their neighbors. pd KyWiFi LLC wrote: I can see both sides. Since we haven't implemented the new policy yet, we may just charge the $29.99 site survey fee if they decline service after a successful site survey. We only charge $99 for installation and our CPE is provided on a free-to-use basis as we are competing against one other WISP, cable and DSL. Out of 10 site surveys, only 3 or 4 are successful due to the rolling terrain in our coverage area and we have (17) broadcast sites! Now if we were using 900Mhz, we could probably double our site survey success rate but fewer people would be interested because of the cost of the 900Mhz CPE which we would have to pass along to them in order for it to be feasible. In a perfect world, prospects should expect to pay for an onsite site survey because there are costs involved (labor and gas). Too bad we don't live in a perfect world. Hopefully unlicensed 700Mhz will become available in our lifetime and we can avoid site surveys altogether. I wonder though if it will be less costly than 900Mhz gear when/if that time does come? Shannon D. Denniston, Co-Founder KyWiFi, LLC - Mt. Sterling, Kentucky Your Hometown Broadband Provider http://www.KyWiFi.com Call Us Today: 859.274.4033 === $29.99 DSL High Speed Internet $14.99 Home Phone Service $19.99 All Digital Satellite TV - No Phone Line Required for DSL - FREE Activation Equipment - Affordable Upfront Pricing - Locally Owned Operated - We Also Service Most Rural Areas === - Original Message - From: Justin Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: [WISPA] Re: Outsourced installations (KyWiFi LLC) I would not be happy about the $29.95 fee. If you can get away with it go right ahead. I look at it the customer is betting $29.95 that they can get service. I would rather have it here if they can get service, and they don't then they are charged $29.95. If they can't get service why should they have to pay $29.95? That would be like going to buy a new car. You want a Blue one with a stick shift. The dealer can't get you one, but they charge you $29.95 for looking. I think the word will spread pretty quickly. Customers are a weird beast. I can see the coffee shop conversations now: Joe:Yeah that company came out and did a site survey to see if they could get me wireless Bob How did that go? Joe The installer guy waived an antenna around and said he could not get me a signal Bob Too bad, so what now? Joe I don't know, but I got charged $29.95 for him coming out Bob What? They are supposed to come out next week. I don't want them charging me $29.95 if they can't hook me up. Just my .02 Justin -- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Access - WISP Consulting - Tower Climbing Web: http://www.mtin.net Web: http://www.jwilson.ws -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Source for satellite masts
We have a friend who is an installer for Dish and Directv. Over half of his installs don't require the new arm that ships (existing mast, pole mount, or whatever), so every few weeks he brings us a couple of boxes of them. Before, he was tossing them. I would find an installer and offer to trade him 10 masts/mo for free service before I go spending a lot of money on masts. pd Mark McElvy wrote: Perfect 10 Distributing, www.perfect-10.tv From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Mon 9/25/2006 11:16 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Source for satellite masts Hello all, I'm looking for a good source for satellite arms (j-poles) for mounting CPE units. It seems that I can always pick some up locally or from some different places, but I have not had any luck lately and I have a couple of consulting customers who are looking for large quantities. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks! Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This electronic communication (including any attached document) may contain privileged and/or confidential information. This communication is intended only for the use of indicated e-mail addressees. If you are not an intended recipient of this communication, please be advised that any disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this communication or any attached document is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and promptly destroy all electronic and printed copies of this communication and any attached document. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
According to the DOL (department of Labor) an employee can be paid by the hour or for piece work (by the job) from http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm The Act requires employers of covered employees who are not otherwise exempt to pay these employees a minimum wage of not less than $5.15 an hour as of September 1, 1997. Youths under 20 years of age may be paid a minimum wage of not less than $4.25 an hour during the first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an employer. Employers may not displace any employee to hire someone at the youth minimum wage. Employers may pay employees on a piecerate basis, as long as they receive at least the equivalent of the required minimum hourly wage rate. Employers of tipped employees (i.e., those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips) may consider such tips as part of their wages, but employers must pay a direct wage of at least $2.13 per hour if they claim a tip credit. They must also meet certain other conditions. I suppose that if these guys manage to spend over 20 (10 hrs each) hrs on every install for the pay period, then I would have to adjust their pay to bring them up to minimum wage. That hasn't been a problem. They average about 3 hrs/install including drive time. This is about twice as fast as installs got done back when they were paid hourly. This is a win/win/win solution as I see it. The employees like the method for making extra money. The customers like the techs getting in and out in a reasonable time. I like getting 2 or 3 installs/day vs 1/day like we got back when techs got paid per hour. We treat their install pay just like regular income. We withhold the withholdings, deal with the social security, etc. Lincoln Welder mfg company in Ohio pays EVERY employee piece-wage only. You might get $4/ea to wind motors, $2/ea to install a switch, $7/ea to screw wheels on, $1.50 to inspect parts, etc. They have withholdings, pay social security, etc. They even clock in/out, to insure to OSHA that no employee is working more than 120 hrs/week but this method has been in place for years and works very well. The employees love it and the unions hate it. It insures that the new guy in training gets up to speed in a reasonable time or washes out. The guy who has been there for 10 years can handle 10 $4 units/hr can make decent money. Pete Davis NoDial.net Scott Reed wrote: You might want to check with your accountant. I doubt the IRS is going to let you "contract" with people you also employ. You may be liable for FICA, etc. for all the installs they have done. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: Pete Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:40:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and I am an owner. They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right the first time around. We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have to go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often let the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in as many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just start picking up the monthly billing. Those are good relationships to have. Pete Davis NoDial.net chris cooper wrote: Im sure this has been covered before.. Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor? Thanks Chris No virus found in this incoming messag
Re: [WISPA] Outsourced installations
We outsource most of our installs to our employees. The two techs usually go out together, and split the $100. Its not unheard of for my techs to make more money on a busy week than I take in my salary, and I am an owner. They make $x/hr to do service calls, uninstalls, AP maintenance, etc and if they can keep those caught up, we schedule an install (usually 1 or 2 /day for 2 techs). They are OFF the clock for installs, and get $100/install. We provide the van, the tools, the gas, the CPE, and all consumables (staples, caulk, cat5, ends, jacks, faceplates, etc). That keeps them from usually turning in overtime. It gives them an incentive for completing installs in a timely manner (2 hr install = $25/hr/tech). Any service calls resulting from a faulty/sloppy install in the first 30 days result in the installer techs going on site to fix it on THEIR time, so they have an incentive to get it done right the first time around. We have a few other local IT/phone/security system consultants who will occasionally bring us a customer and offer to install them, since they are an existing consulting customer for them anyway and usually selling them a custom network/phone system/security system/audio system anyway. We will usually give them $125 or $150 and provide the CPE and minimal technical support. They will bring us the contract/customer worksheet for our files, and we don't even have to go on site. Since we usually charge $149 for the setup, we often let the consultant charge whatever he wants, and keep it, and put in as many custom cable runs and terminations as they can sell. We just start picking up the monthly billing. Those are good relationships to have. Pete Davis NoDial.net chris cooper wrote: Im sure this has been covered before.. Have any of you outsourced installations? If so, has it been a positive experience, how much do you pay a contractor? Thanks Chris No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.7/454 - Release Date: 9/21/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Suggestions to reach 80 feet.
A tower. I think thats what I would suggest. Its probably cheaper and more stable than guying a weather balloon into place. I suppose you could buy a crane and park it there, but that would probably be more expensive than a tower, at least long term. . Do you have enough land available to put in guy wires, and permission to cut a few trees to bury guy anchors? A guyed tower would be less expensive than a self-supporting one. You might consider making a deal with the person in the area with the tallest (and highest) house to mount the stuff there. If its tall enough, you might be able to bolt a section (or two) of Rohn 25 to the side of the chimney and reach what you are trying to. 80 feet is going to be tricky, but not impossible. We mounted a 50' telescoping mast to my brother's fatherinlaw's chimney using three 4 standoffs and a LOT of 1/4 steel rope for guy wire at every guy ring. Its holding up a 19 basket grid antenna and a 17db pacwireless sector. We have enough customers on it to justify a real rohn25 tower on the ground now. Pete Davis NoDial.net. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'm interested in what people would suggest using to reach 60 to 80 feet above the ground. It needs to hold a sector or two (my holy bird-frying sectors, Batman!), and a 2 foot solid dish and a grid dish. The ground is rocky, and there's 35 to 55 foot trees in all directions. This is to reach only a few people, not more than a dozen, so price is a serious consideration. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Net Neutrality article by Robert X. Cringely
Sorry for the cross-post. Having not really been following the whole Neutrality Debate, this clarified some stuff for me. I hope you enjoy it. Copied from: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20060622.html June 22, 2006 Net Neutered: Why don't they tell us ending Net Neutrality might kill BitTorrent? By Robert X. Cringely Last week's column was about Bill Gates' announced departure from day-to-day management at Microsoft and a broad view of the Net Neutrality issue. We'll get back to Microsoft next week with a much closer look at the challenges the company faces as it ages and what I believe is a clever and counter-intuitive plan for Redmond's future success. But this week is all about Net Neutrality, which turns out to be a far more complex issue than we (or Congress) are being told. Net Neutrality is a concept being explored right now in the U.S. Congress, which is trying to decide whether to allow Internet Service Providers to offer tiers of service for extra money or to essentially be prohibited from doing so. The ISPs want the additional income and claim they are being under compensated for their network investments, while pretty much everyone else thinks all packets ought to be treated equally. Last week's column pointed out how shallow are the current arguments, which ignore many of the technical and operational realities of the Internet, especially the fact that there have long been tiers of service and that ISPs have probably been treating different kinds of packets differently for years and we simply didn't know it. One example of unequal treatment is whether packets connect from backbone to backbone through one of the public Network Access Points (NAPs) or through a private peering arrangement between ISPs or backbone providers. The distinction between these two forms of interconnection is vital because the NAPs are overloaded all the time, leading to dropped packets, retransmissions, network congestion, and reduced effective bandwidth. Every ISP that has a private peering agreement still has the right to use the NAPs and one has to wonder how they decide which packets they put in the diamond lane and which ones they make take the bus? Virtual Private Networks are another example of how packets can be treated differently. Most VPNs are created by ISP customers who want secure and reliable interconnections to their corporate networks. VPNs not only encrypt content, but to a certain extent they reserve bandwidth. But not all VPNs are created by customers. There are some ISPs that use VPNs specifically to limit the bandwidth of certain customers who are viewed as taking more than their fair share. My late friend Roger Boisvert, a pioneer Japanese ISP, found that fewer than 5 percent of his customers at gol.com were using more than 70 percent of the ISP's bandwidth, so he captured just those accounts in VPNs limited to a certain amount of bandwidth. Since then I have heard from other ISPs who do the same. As pointed out last week, though, there is only so much damage that an ISP can do and most of it seems limited to Voice-over-IP (VoIP) telephone service where latency, dropouts, and jitter are key and problematic. Since VoIP is an Internet service customers are used to paying extra for (that, in itself, is rare), ISPs want that money for themselves, which is the major reason why they want permission to end Net Neutrality--if it ever really existed. The implications of this end to Net Neutrality go far beyond VoIP, though it is my feeling that most ISPs don't know that. These are bit schleppers, remember, and the advantages of traffic shaping are only beginning to dawn on most of them. The DIS-advantages are even further from being realized, though that will start to change right here. The key question to ask is what impact will priority service levels have on the services that remain, those having no priority? In terms of the packets, giving priority to VoIP ought not to have a significant impact on audio or video downloads because those services are buffered and if they take a little longer, well that's just the price of progress, right? Wrong. Let's look at the impact of priority services on BitTorrent, the single greatest consumer of Internet bandwidth. Though e-mail and web surfing are both probably more important to Internet users than BitTorrent, the peer-to-peer file transfer scheme uses more total Internet bandwidth at something over 30 percent. Some ISPs absolutely hate BitTorrent and have moved to limit its impact on their networks by controlling the amount of bandwidth available to BitTorrent traffic. This, too, flies in the face of our supposed current state of blissful Net Neutrality. A list of ISPs that limit BitTorrent bandwidth is in this week's links, though most of them are, so far, outside the United States. BitTorrent blocking or limiting can be defeated by encrypting the torrents, but that
Re: [WISPA] Net Neutrality article by Robert X. Cringely
Many of us use PPPOE connections for our subscribers. While this is not the same as a VPN, it is similar. Many home routers support PPTP (which IS VPN'ish), so I assume SOMEONE out there is doing it, and I guess would make ONE connection to the AP, and cut down maybe on some of the problems associated with P2P software on the wireless client, where the 802.11x standard makes it tough to deal with hundreds of users and hundreds of connections each. pd Jeff Broadwick wrote: I read through this, and it didn't square with my understanding in many ways. I ran it past one of my senior engineers and this is his response: Cringely clearly needs to learn some more about the subject before he spouts technical pronouncements. Any ISP using VPNs to limit traffic to a customer is crazy as a loon. Maybe they did that in the old days, but certainly not anymore. I'm amazed that he honestly thinks that NO ISPs in the U.S. limit BitTorrent traffic. It was the first sign that he's pretty clueless technically and doesn't talk to very many ISPs. I do agree with him that Net Neutrality doesn't exist now, never existed in the past, and that this will not change. I disagree with a few other points: 1) I don't think that the current system is broken or bad, 2) comparing shaped traffic with unshaped traffic is dumb, 3) comparing optimized BitTorrent traffic with unoptimized is also dumb. Jeff Jeff Broadwick ImageStream 800-813-5123 x106 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 6:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Net Neutrality article by Robert X. Cringely Sorry for the cross-post. Having not really been following the whole Neutrality Debate, this clarified some stuff for me. I hope you enjoy it. Copied from: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20060622.html June 22, 2006 Net Neutered: Why don't they tell us ending Net Neutrality might kill BitTorrent? By Robert X. Cringely Last week's column was about Bill Gates' announced departure from day-to-day management at Microsoft and a broad view of the Net Neutrality issue. We'll get back to Microsoft next week with a much closer look at the challenges the company faces as it ages and what I believe is a clever and counter-intuitive plan for Redmond's future success. But this week is all about Net Neutrality, which turns out to be a far more complex issue than we (or Congress) are being told. Net Neutrality is a concept being explored right now in the U.S. Congress, which is trying to decide whether to allow Internet Service Providers to offer tiers of service for extra money or to essentially be prohibited from doing so. The ISPs want the additional income and claim they are being under compensated for their network investments, while pretty much everyone else thinks all packets ought to be treated equally. Last week's column pointed out how shallow are the current arguments, which ignore many of the technical and operational realities of the Internet, especially the fact that there have long been tiers of service and that ISPs have probably been treating different kinds of packets differently for years and we simply didn't know it. One example of unequal treatment is whether packets connect from backbone to backbone through one of the public Network Access Points (NAPs) or through a private peering arrangement between ISPs or backbone providers. The distinction between these two forms of interconnection is vital because the NAPs are overloaded all the time, leading to dropped packets, retransmissions, network congestion, and reduced effective bandwidth. Every ISP that has a private peering agreement still has the right to use the NAPs and one has to wonder how they decide which packets they put in the diamond lane and which ones they make take the bus? Virtual Private Networks are another example of how packets can be treated differently. Most VPNs are created by ISP customers who want secure and reliable interconnections to their corporate networks. VPNs not only encrypt content, but to a certain extent they reserve bandwidth. But not all VPNs are created by customers. There are some ISPs that use VPNs specifically to limit the bandwidth of certain customers who are viewed as taking more than their fair share. My late friend Roger Boisvert, a pioneer Japanese ISP, found that fewer than 5 percent of his customers at gol.com were using more than 70 percent of the ISP's bandwidth, so he captured just those accounts in VPNs limited to a certain amount of bandwidth. Since then I have heard from other ISPs who do the same. As pointed out last week, though, there is only so much damage that an ISP can do and most of it seems limited to Voice-over-IP (VoIP) telephone service where latency, dropouts, and jitter are key and problematic. Since VoIP is an Internet service customers are used to paying extra
Re: [WISPA] Wyoming locations that need service
The only Wisp I ever heard of in Wyoming is Brett Glass, and the only place I see his posts are on isp-wireless list. I have no idea about Wyoming geography. pd Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: Shot in the dark, but if there are any providers out there that can hit these places, I am a customer for you Alcova 22495 W US Hwy 220Alcova WY82620 Bairoil503 Antelope DrBairoil WY82322 Beulah 5930 Old Hwy 14Beulah WY82712 Bondurant 13884 Hwy 191Bondurant WY82922 Cora 5 Noble RdCora WY 82925 Farson 4050 US 191 NFarson WY82932 Fort Washakie 14 N Fork RdFort Washakie WY82514 Granger 102 Pine StGranger WY 82934 Kinnear11517 Hwy 26KinnearWY82516 Moran1 Central StMoranWY83013 Opal554 Soliday StOpal WY83124 Parkman 49 Railway AveParkman WY82838 Powder River 35304 W Hwy 20-26Powder River WY82648 Recluse 488 Recluse RdRecluse WY82725 Wapiti3189 Northfork HwyWapitiWY82450 Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this?
If/when the feds require it, I guess the way to do it would be to run Ethereal in fully promiscuous mode on a mirrored port on a switch and streaming it to server over the FBI's T1 to their server. When the Federal government installs their T1 to my NOC, I would be willing to upload it to them over their network resources to their server for them to to keep on file for 2 years to never look at, otherwise, I don't have any way to insure that the data hasn't been tampered with if it stays in my file room. The government requiring me to keep two years records of all network traffic seems unreasonable. If I were a defense attorney defending a client whose evidence against him was stored by some local ISP dinks on their servers for 24 months, I would certainly question the chain of the evidence, and likely get it thrown out. Here is an example of how this could go wrong: If I am an ISP operator (I am actually) and I have a vendetta against a client (I don't, or at least not one I want to discuss here) and I am in charge of keeping network logs of all of that client's traffic, I could easily forge the records to make it look like he had committed a horrific crime, like reproducing the transcript of the commentary of a game without the express written consent of Major League Baseball, and make it look like it came from his IP address. I don't know how that record, 24 months old, and sitting in my tape locker could ever be held as compelling evidence against him, unless there was already an investigation, where these records still probably couldn't make or break a case. I suppose that the thinking is, that if the subscriber is guilty of child porn, and they can prove what site he downloaded from and sent it to, they could go after that web host for hosting the smut. Either way, putting it off to the local ISP to keep records seems far fetched. Pete Davis NoDial.net Mac Dearman wrote: You have enough clients that it would bankrupt you to build a server to log your HTTP SMTP traffic? I don't think it would be that difficult or expensive, but agree that it would be a major PITA! I am pretty sure we will never be faced with this as the majority of us aren't reliable enough to even set this up nor responsible enough to keep up with it reliably for two years. Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 12:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? Common sense tells you that the big boys will lobby to force the last mile provider to log it all, so as to bankrupt the competition. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Mac Dearman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? I wouldn't imagine that this responsibility would fall on us WISPs, but to our upstream providers like BellSouth...etc. Why would they want to deal with the 20,000 piss ants of the world when all they have to do is back up stream two hops and catch all the traffic? Common sense tells me this will not fall on us! Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060601/ts_nm/security_internet_usa_dc Why aren't we fighting tooth and nail to stop this kinda stuff? Or, is this issue like certain others, where WISPA founders take contrary positions to the rest of the members and side with big brother and encourage the feds to dig into and regulate our business, in some apparent hope of ingratiating themselves with the regulators? AT LEAST could we have the leadership tell us what THEY think of this? North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! -- -- - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] This is HUGE!
Pete Davis wrote: Here is an example of a ROI period ending. I put in a $500/mo T1 and rent a $100/mo tower space. My fixed costs are $600/mo I put in a $1000 AP and router, and buy 100 $200 CPE. I am now $21000 in the hole. Each customer is paying me $50/mo. ($5000/mo total) My ROI is 5 months, and my fixed cost per customer is $6 (upstream bandwidth and tower rent), leaving me $32/mo ($3200) after ROI profit. DOH! - Thats $44/mo/sub profits in my dreamworld wisp. That's all fine and good if this is your hobby, and you are not trying to make a living at this. I just need 5 of these towers/AP's/model to pay for salaries, trucks, replacement CPE, installers, tools, and trips to conventions and trade shows. I also need 3 more of these towers to pay interest on the bank note from borrowing the original $21,000, which was more like $200,000 by the time we over-spent, under planned, over estimated the demand, underestimated the costs, overestimated the employees abilities to work, underestimated the damage that lighting can cause, and so on and so forth. I also need 7 more of these towers to offset the cost of not actually installing 100 clients on day 1, and not getting $100 tower rent, not getting 100 clients per AP, and not getting $200 CPE, and to offset the deadbeats who write hot checks, paying the cell phone bill, buy the fender when an antenna falls off of the roof during an install, buy the insurance to pay for it next time, buy new PCs, put tires on the trucks, change the oil, buying a mail server, buying another server to remove the spam from the first mail server, buying spare servers, routers, tools, and paying consultants when I cannot figure it out. Then I need another 14 towers to pay for the psychotherapist when go nuts trying to manage 2900 subscribers, who are all bitching and moaning because their PC has a virus, or their kid is downloading porn, or maybe they are getting spam, or they can't get their bittorrent client to download more than 500kbps. I am not there yet. We are still working on getting tower number 7 online, and installing customer number 350'ish, and I am not on the mood altering drugs... yet. Eventually, there is a model there for making money in this business somewhere between the hobby stage and the looney bin. The ways to do that should be the same as any other business whether you are selling internet, real estate, health care, computers, or donuts. 1: Time is money, so don't waste time or money. 2. Don't cut corners. 3. Don't piss off the customers. Pete Davis NoDial.net Travis Johnson wrote: Tom, There is no such thing as average profit per sub after ROI period. Let me give an example: I lease all my CPE. It is a recurring monthly debt that will never go away. Even after 3 years, when I own the CPE, there will be new CPE that needs purchased... and thus new towers, new AP's, new backhauls, new routers, new bandwidth, new whatever. Even if I move that paid for CPE to a new customer on the edges of my network, there are still costs mentioned above for that customer. Maybe I'm not thinking the same as you, but I can never see an after ROI period. It never happens. Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: I agree current profit is irrelevant, when considering company totals during the early growth period. But calcualted future Profit clearly is relevant, as far as how much profit will be made per sub, and how soon. Profitabilty can be misleading when jsut considering accounting paperwork (profit loss / balance sheets) I'll give an example: Lets say a company gets an ROI in 1 year. And had 4 years of selling subs. And by the 4th year, profit would be being made from each sub. But then lets says a company had a 100% growth spurt in the 5th year. And lets say there is a 1 year ROI, meaning 12 dollars needs to be spent for ever new dollar that is made. Because the growth rate of the company is so much higher in the later year, the expendatures are far greater than the revenue comming in from the samller customer base taken on the first 4 years. Thus, it appears the company is losing money and not profiting. When in actuallity, the company has record high success. All pre-existing subs ARE 100% profitable, and lot of new growth has been made to replicate the previous years successful model. So yes, profitable books may mean a company is not growing and not making new sales. However, showing the average profit per sub, after the ROI period is a VERY relevant bit of information. Its what defines the value of the business model in my mind. In other words: Forcasted Profit margin based on current years proven track record. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA
Re: [WISPA] This is HUGE!
Here is an example of a ROI period ending. I put in a $500/mo T1 and rent a $100/mo tower space. My fixed costs are $600/mo I put in a $1000 AP and router, and buy 100 $200 CPE. I am now $21000 in the hole. Each customer is paying me $50/mo. ($5000/mo total) My ROI is 5 months, and my fixed cost per customer is $6 (upstream bandwidth and tower rent), leaving me $32/mo ($3200) after ROI profit. That's all fine and good if this is your hobby, and you are not trying to make a living at this. I just need 5 of these towers/AP's/model to pay for salaries, trucks, replacement CPE, installers, tools, and trips to conventions and trade shows. I also need 3 more of these towers to pay interest on the bank note from borrowing the original $21,000, which was more like $200,000 by the time we over-spent, under planned, over estimated the demand, underestimated the costs, overestimated the employees abilities to work, underestimated the damage that lighting can cause, and so on and so forth. I also need 7 more of these towers to offset the cost of not actually installing 100 clients on day 1, and not getting $100 tower rent, not getting 100 clients per AP, and not getting $200 CPE, and to offset the deadbeats who write hot checks, paying the cell phone bill, buy the fender when an antenna falls off of the roof during an install, buy the insurance to pay for it next time, buy new PCs, put tires on the trucks, change the oil, buying a mail server, buying another server to remove the spam from the first mail server, buying spare servers, routers, tools, and paying consultants when I cannot figure it out. Then I need another 14 towers to pay for the psychotherapist when go nuts trying to manage 2900 subscribers, who are all bitching and moaning because their PC has a virus, or their kid is downloading porn, or maybe they are getting spam, or they can't get their bittorrent client to download more than 500kbps. I am not there yet. We are still working on getting tower number 7 online, and installing customer number 350'ish, and I am not on the mood altering drugs... yet. Eventually, there is a model there for making money in this business somewhere between the hobby stage and the looney bin. The ways to do that should be the same as any other business whether you are selling internet, real estate, health care, computers, or donuts. 1: Time is money, so don't waste time or money. 2. Don't cut corners. 3. Don't piss off the customers. Pete Davis NoDial.net Travis Johnson wrote: Tom, There is no such thing as average profit per sub after ROI period. Let me give an example: I lease all my CPE. It is a recurring monthly debt that will never go away. Even after 3 years, when I own the CPE, there will be new CPE that needs purchased... and thus new towers, new AP's, new backhauls, new routers, new bandwidth, new whatever. Even if I move that paid for CPE to a new customer on the edges of my network, there are still costs mentioned above for that customer. Maybe I'm not thinking the same as you, but I can never see an after ROI period. It never happens. Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: I agree current profit is irrelevant, when considering company totals during the early growth period. But calcualted future Profit clearly is relevant, as far as how much profit will be made per sub, and how soon. Profitabilty can be misleading when jsut considering accounting paperwork (profit loss / balance sheets) I'll give an example: Lets say a company gets an ROI in 1 year. And had 4 years of selling subs. And by the 4th year, profit would be being made from each sub. But then lets says a company had a 100% growth spurt in the 5th year. And lets say there is a 1 year ROI, meaning 12 dollars needs to be spent for ever new dollar that is made. Because the growth rate of the company is so much higher in the later year, the expendatures are far greater than the revenue comming in from the samller customer base taken on the first 4 years. Thus, it appears the company is losing money and not profiting. When in actuallity, the company has record high success. All pre-existing subs ARE 100% profitable, and lot of new growth has been made to replicate the previous years successful model. So yes, profitable books may mean a company is not growing and not making new sales. However, showing the average profit per sub, after the ROI period is a VERY relevant bit of information. Its what defines the value of the business model in my mind. In other words: Forcasted Profit margin based on current years proven track record. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] This is HUGE! Profit is irrelevant for an early stage growth company
Re: [WISPA] [Fwd: Illinois' broadband gap squeezes small business from Crain's]
He must share a t1 with 12 other tenants and its barely faster than dialup? If I had to buy a t1 for every 12 broadband subscribers, I would go broke! Someone needs to manage that t1 or clean viruses on 13 computers, or something.. pd John Scrivner wrote: Can someone in the Chicago area please serve this guy? If you get him a wireless connection please let me know and I will have a press release prepared and sent out. Thanks, Scriv PS. If you are in Illinois and have not done so yet, please join the [EMAIL PROTECTED] email list server for Illinois specific information. http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/illinois Original Message Subject: Illinois' broadband gap squeezes small business from Crain's Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:18:16 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From Crain’s Illinois' broadband gap squeezes small business By Julie Johnsson April 16, 2006 Even the cheapest DSL service is out of Steve Zaransky's reach. The line providing high-speed Internet access from ATT Inc. stops 600 yards short of his company, Airways Digital Media. Comcast Corp. doesn't serve his neighborhood, an industrial corridor on the city's Far Northwest Side. Broadband remains elusive for some Chicagoans living or working in industrial areas — as Mr. Zaransky learned when he moved his three-employee Web development firm from the West Loop last summer. I just assumed that anywhere in the city, you'd be able to get broadband, he says. That's not the case. Illinois ranks 21st nationally for broadband lines per capita, trailing California, Massachusetts and even sparsely populated Nevada and Alaska. In a world of instant information, that's a serious disadvantage for small business owners like Mr. Zaransky, who can't afford the T-1 lines larger companies use to tap into the Internet. It creates a struggle to do business here, rather than making it simple. It doesn't bode well for economic development, says Janita Tucker, executive director of the Peterson Pulaski Business and Industrial Council, which represents 22 businesses employing about 2,000 people in the industrial corridor including Mr. Zaransky's business. Most of them don't have access to digital subscriber line (DSL) or cable modem service, she says. That's ironic in a city that boasts one of the richest fiber networks in the country. Illinois had 1.85 million high-speed Internet lines as of June 30, the fifth-highest total of any state, according to new Federal Communications Commission data. Much of that broadband is clustered in downtown Chicago, a major Internet hub. However, gaps in the network are a problem elsewhere, leaving Illinois with one broadband connection for every 6.70 residents, according to an analysis by Crain's that compared the FCC tally of broadband lines to population figures from the 2000 U.S. Census. The District of Columbia and Connecticut, with the best coverage nationally, have broadband connections for every 4.52 and 4.97 residents, respectively. We do have large areas of the city and many suburban areas that don't have basic broadband availability, says Scott Goldstein, vice-president for policy and planning at the Metropolitan Planning Council. All sectors of the economy are going high-tech, not just large companies. That's where Chicago needs to compete. The problem is a hangover from the 1990s, when Chicago's dominant phone and cable companies were slow to upgrade networks that were later acquired by ATT (formerly known as SBC Communications Inc.) and Comcast. NO RESIDENCES, NO COVERAGE Philadelphia cable giant Comcast has made cable modem available to about 99% of homes in its Northern Illinois service area, but it doesn't provide service to office parks and industrial areas where there are no residences, a spokeswoman says. DSL service, provided by phone companies, reached only 77% of Illinois phone customers as of June 30, 2005, according to federal data. In Florida, the state with the widest DSL availability, some 85% of customers could hook into the service as of mid-2005. New York's DSL network reached 81% of the state. An ATT spokesman says 80% of its Illinois customers had access to DSL by the end of 2005. He can't say when the company's DSL coverage will approach 100%. Our goal is to get to these areas as soon as we can, and we're working at it. He says the network will reach Mr. Zaransky's neighborhood this year. Texas-based ATT also plans to begin wiring area homes for fiber-optic lines capable of providing television programming and ultra-fast Internet service later this year. State and city of Chicago officials acknowledge broadband coverage is a problem, but they have been slow to find solutions. The Illinois Broadband Task Force, established by Gov. Rod Blagojevich, is drawing up plans to study service gaps and create an entity to provide broadband in underserved areas. Chicago, meanwhile,
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
I have been told that the new WR CCU is POE-able. I don't know about Trango either. pd chris cooper wrote: WR. Ive never used the Trango 900 Mhz. WR needs a POE CCU. Not sure if Trango has that option or not. c -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Joshua M. Andrews *Sent:* Friday, April 07, 2006 8:54 PM *To:* wireless@wispa.org *Subject:* [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed Chris: I've heard so much about Trango that I'm really intrigued! What is it that you use for 900 MHz? Why would I choose Trango over WaveRider anyway? Thanks. - Pete: Thank you very much for the detailed response. I wouldn't say I will be desperate as I'm doing it mostly as a benefit to the community and money is a side-note for me (I already have a great career so I'm really in it for the fun). Have you tried Trango's 900 MHz, and if so, did it compare well to WaveRider? Secondly, what equipment for the 802.11b have you had the success with? Thanks again! -- JohnnyO: It seems to be the consensus is not to have any contracts for the service. It also seems to be the consensus that other successful WISPs are having great success not charging rock bottom prices. I've heard great things about WaveRider in general and it seems virtually everyone also says that if I offer more than 1 Mbps to customers then I'm pushing it with WaveRider. You're right about the local business comments.. I've seen it work very well in our tight-nit community. I probably should up the price a bit and rethink my WaveRider strategy. I HAVE to have 900 MHz.. other WISPs have seriously come and gone with their 2.4 GHz stuff due to the trees and so I'm stuck between a rock (WaveRider) and a hard place (Trango). Any ideas in this regard? Thank you kindly. - Mark: Thank you very much for your comments. I'm planning on the snail pace to get started. :) Brian: I can probably help you with this. What OS is the sub using? What kind of backup do you want? Data only, Ghosting, Full backups with incremental, how often, etc? How many machines, is this server-based, or client-based? Matt: You stated that you used trango in the past and don't use them anymore... who do you use now? Thanks. Blair: I wanna be your friend. I need hand-holding and you sound like you were in the position I'm in today and can really help. What equipment are you using? Thanks. Sincerely, Joshua No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/304 - Release Date: 4/7/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Big trouble with my first AP...
Since the original post listed using CM9's, its possible that Antenna A/Antenna B selection is incorrect. Pete Davis NoDial.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible the u.fl connectors have come loose? I have had a few issues w/ the u.fl connection coming slightly loose during the tower climb - Thanks Dan Metcalf Wireless Broadband Systems www.wbisp.com 781-566-2053 ext 6201 1-888-wbsystem (888) 927-9783 [EMAIL PROTECTED] support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jason Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2006 3:04 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Big trouble with my first AP... David, I was afraid I sounded like a newbie... Anyway, I've had the radios on different channels and the same ones; would this effect the signal strength or the s/n ratio? Signal strength is where the problem is. Also I wasn't worried that the coax or antennas were damaged, the radio itself was my worry . I tried both polarities on the antenna I was testing with. David E. Smith wrote: Jason wrote: I have a difficult question for the list. I was testing my 1st routerboard/mikrotik ap this evening with terrible results. Let me give you the rundown of what I have and what has happened. [ snip: a fairly typical kinda setup ] Forgive me for going through all the really obvious newbie stuff, but the sooner we can rule it out, the sooner we can get to the juicy stuff. :) Are the three APs on the same channel, or three different channels? And are they using the same SSID or different ones? Also, did you make sure your rootenna was correctly polarized to point to the AP? One other thing which might be the cause is that while I was setting up the mikrotik/routerboard I activated the 3 cm9 radios not realizing that they were set for the 5 Ghz band. They were probably like that for an hour until I got to that part of the setup. Perhaps something is wrong now or are the cm9's forgiving? That shouldn't be a problem. The CM9 will change over to the new frequency pretty much immediately, and I can't imagine how running the AP on the wrong channel would have damaged the coax run or the antenna. (Not saying it's impossible, just very unlikely IMO.) David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 - Release Date: 04/06/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
Joshua M. Andrews wrote: Cliff: Thank you for the information. The areas of DSL are very spotty and cable is very inexpensive and unreliable. Many people are upset at both situations. DSL is offered for about $30 per month with purchase of a DSL modem at around $50 or so and a 1 year contract is required. Cable service rents you the modem for $10 per month and charges $40 per month for service on top of that ($50 per month total for those of you out there in other posts that think half-duplex is as good a full-duplex). I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. -- Pete: Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I don't want to be rude but I took a look at your website and it needs some work. :( In any case, I think you have a point. Could you elaborate more on what you meant by going with a 802.11b AP/CPE. Do you mean you are shooting a signal out to an area using WaveRider and then distributing it via another 802.11b AP from there? I think your right about contracts and install fees and it sounds like your saying that I'm just going to have to eat the cost and extend my ROI per user. Thanks again. 900Mhz client to 802.11b AP to 802.11b client is one scenario, but I would also put 802.11b APs on the main tower. If you put up a $300 AP and 5 $150 CPE, you will be doing better ($220 average customer equipment cost) than a purely Waverider network. You should be able to do better than 5 clients per AP. Yes my website needs work, but we always have more installs that we possibly have time to get to. When we get caught up on installs, we will revamp the website to bring more in. I wouldn't count on giving 1.5M to every customer on your network over Waverider. I have played with every GOS setting I can come up with, and cannot MAINTAIN over 1Mbps connectivity to multiple clients. I would also consider the thought that you don't have to be the cheapest ISP in town to be the busiest or the best.. Its gonna take a LOT more $25/mo clients to get traction than at $40 or $50/mo. I wouldn't install any customer who will take 12 months to get CFP (cash flow positive, paying for CPE and installation costs). Not starting out, anyway, unless I was DESPERATE to get market share. Desperation is almost never a good position to be in. I get $39/mo for residential service and $59/$99 for business service. DSL is cheaper, and in one area, Cablemodem is cheaper. We still stay busy with new customers, and we don't put in a new tower until the last tower is CFP. More money coming in the door than going out is a big part (only part?) for successful business. ISP business is no exception. When you run out of money, you are out of business. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed
Well said. You don't need to be the cheapest to be profitable. pd JohnnyO wrote: I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. IMNSHO - If you are trying to compete you will fall on your face in a heartbeat. We charge more then the competition and we do so for a reason. Our installs start at $250 for a 'basic' install. Our monthly rates are atleast $10-$15/more then the DSL or Cable offerings in our area. We avoid the bottom feeders this way. We could double or triple our subscriber count within 12mos if we would drop down $15/mo for our service but I refuse to do that. Volume of low end subscribers becomes a very costly support decision. I refuse to compete on pricing - we are local - we hire local people - we donate and support the local sports teams / associations. We shake our subscribers hands in the stores / at gas pumps / baseball games. We pump $$ into the local business's for our supplies, materials. $24.95/mo - If I were you - I would SERIOUSLY rethink your business model. Oh - we also don't have contracts - We do have a TOS, but have found there is really no reason to get subscribers to committ. If we do our job - they will stay - if we fail to support them as we've promised - they will bail. Kinda helps keep us on our toes :) JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 6:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Re: CPE Cost Ideas Needed Joshua M. Andrews wrote: Cliff: Thank you for the information. The areas of DSL are very spotty and cable is very inexpensive and unreliable. Many people are upset at both situations. DSL is offered for about $30 per month with purchase of a DSL modem at around $50 or so and a 1 year contract is required. Cable service rents you the modem for $10 per month and charges $40 per month for service on top of that ($50 per month total for those of you out there in other posts that think half-duplex is as good a full-duplex). I'm shooting at offering 1.5 Mbps service at around $24.95 and offering VOIP for another $24.95 if they so choose. So the competition hasn't a chance against me if I can get around that $350 CPE cost. -- Pete: Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I don't want to be rude but I took a look at your website and it needs some work. :( In any case, I think you have a point. Could you elaborate more on what you meant by going with a 802.11b AP/CPE. Do you mean you are shooting a signal out to an area using WaveRider and then distributing it via another 802.11b AP from there? I think your right about contracts and install fees and it sounds like your saying that I'm just going to have to eat the cost and extend my ROI per user. Thanks again. 900Mhz client to 802.11b AP to 802.11b client is one scenario, but I would also put 802.11b APs on the main tower. If you put up a $300 AP and 5 $150 CPE, you will be doing better ($220 average customer equipment cost) than a purely Waverider network. You should be able to do better than 5 clients per AP. Yes my website needs work, but we always have more installs that we possibly have time to get to. When we get caught up on installs, we will revamp the website to bring more in. I wouldn't count on giving 1.5M to every customer on your network over Waverider. I have played with every GOS setting I can come up with, and cannot MAINTAIN over 1Mbps connectivity to multiple clients. I would also consider the thought that you don't have to be the cheapest ISP in town to be the busiest or the best.. Its gonna take a LOT more $25/mo clients to get traction than at $40 or $50/mo. I wouldn't install any customer who will take 12 months to get CFP (cash flow positive, paying for CPE and installation costs). Not starting out, anyway, unless I was DESPERATE to get market share. Desperation is almost never a good position to be in. I get $39/mo for residential service and $59/$99 for business service. DSL is cheaper, and in one area, Cablemodem is cheaper. We still stay busy with new customers, and we don't put in a new tower until the last tower is CFP. More money coming in the door than going out is a big part (only part?) for successful business. ISP business is no exception. When you run out of money, you are out of business. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT Backup Program
http://www.handybackup.com/ Cheap. $30 to $55 depending on plugins needed. Free trial available. Easy to use. Drop/Drag/Schedule Flexible. Will back up to CDRW, network shares, second hard drives, FTP shares, whatever. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I have a sub with an external hard drive but he needs a good backup program. Anyone know of a good one you've had luck with? Brian -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] CPE Cost Ideas Needed
We were in a similar position when we started our WISP in 2002, and we went exclusively with Waverider CPE ($500+ at that time) and we found that the market would not bear more than $200 setup (we now only charge $149). It was/is also our thinking that a contract to lock them into service wouldn't make sense either. If they don't want to pay the last 8 months of service because they cannot afford it, because they don't like the service, or whatever, then I wouldn't help grow the business by suing them, so a contract wouldn't make sense. We do have them sign a limited liability agreement, where they agree to, among other things, return the CPE or pay us $995.00 when they disconnect. They also agree not to break any laws or intentionally cause any problems with the service, etc etc. I also don't think people want a LOT of complicated options when they sign up for service. I think you will be better off offering a $200 setup and $49/mo (we started at $59 residential, and dropped to $39) for service. After the 15 or 20 customers are online that pay for the upstream broadband (depending on what you are paying), you can have the CPE pay for itself 4 months if you don't outsource the installations. Then, 8 Customers will buy 1 CPE/month, and 64 will buy 8/mo and so on. The numbers don't always exactly work that way, since employees want to be paid, the van will need gas, tires and oil, email servers will need service/repair/upgrades, and some customers will need a $100 worth of masts, cables, guy wires, etc to get them installed. What you may want to consider is giving a free/discounted installation if the customer will pre-pay 12 months service. We offer a 10% discount on the service/installation if they pre-pay 12 months. What we learned: We wished we had implemented lower cost 802.11b AP/CPE's alongside the Waverider gear sooner. We waited over a year before we did that, and figured out that we didn't have to wait 12 to 18 months for a customer to be cash flow positive. Now, its less than 5 months. Less than 1 if I don't outsource the installation ($125 to contractor), and I put it in myself, and collect the $150 setup + 1st month service and put in a $120 CPE. Pete Davis NoDial.net Joshua M. Andrews wrote: I'm about to get my first WISP up and running but the major factor that's holding me back is the initial cost of the CPE's. I've decided to go with WaveWireless (formerly WaveRider) 900Mhz but the lowest prices are around $350 or so. I've been thinking of pitching the service by saying the following: Option 1: 1 Year Contract and install is $295.95. Option 2: 2 Year Contract and install is $195.95. Option 3: 3 Year Contract and install is $99.95. Option 4: 4 Year Contract and install is FREE. Anybody else have any suggestions to help offset the initial cost per customer in this regard? Thanks in advance. Sincerely, Joshua M. Andrews Support Corps of America www.SupportCorps.us http://www.SupportCorps.us No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/301 - Release Date: 4/4/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX?
I thought Alvarion was Wimax, or wimax-able, or wimax compatible, or software-flashable to wimax. Wimax-ilicious, or something. pd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: George From what we have seen most of the unlicensed WIMAX will come into its own in the first half of 2007. The limitation for low cost units comes down to the chipsets, we have tested prototype mini-pci WIMAX radios (5Ghz) but they are far from ready for prime time. Sincerely, Tony Morella Demarc Technology Group, A Wireless Solution Provider Office: 207-667-7583 Fax: 207-433-1008 http://www.demarctech.com This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This communication may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient and receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the communication. Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the sender by return electronic mail and delete all copies of this communication -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 11:17 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Un- licensed WIMAX? What is going on with unlicensed WIMAX? Is there any products released yet or about to be released? Thanks George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] COST Per Customer Analysis
I assume that you are not just starting out, so your numbers may be what you are really looking at. If you DON'T count CPE costs, mail servers, tower costs, equipment depreciation, installation, debt service and lease payments, the costs of a customer are only the upstream bandwidth costs ($500 T1 per 100 clients, maybe) and support staff and overhead for the staff. This doesn't cover any costs associated with adding new subscribers, or any CPE replacement These aren't my numbers, but might look like what you might be looking at. Rent: $1000/mo (including towers and office) Salary: $6000/mo cell phones: $500 Bandwidth: $2500 Van operating costs: $1000 $11000 per month for 500 clients = $22/mo. Thats about as high as I could see most of those costs running you for a two man operation. Your area may demand higher (or lower) costs for salaries and rent. Obviously, the more clients you have the cheaper those costs are. If you have that same burn rate for 250 subscribers, then the cost per customer will be $44/mo. If you can squeeze 1000 subs out of that same overhead, then you are only spending $11/mo. Its really about the economies of scale at some point. The bigger your subscriber base, the lower your costs, and the higher your bottom line. As far as the question about what to charge, start as high as you can sell it until the installation waiting list gets under control. Its a lot easier to move the price from $69/mo to $59 to $49 to $39 than to try to take it the other direction. You WILL lose money on the first several customers, until you have enough recurring revenue to cover the recurring expenses, unless you can start off with LOW overhead and add customers QUICKLY. Our 1st customer cost us about $75,000 to get him on line. The next several were about $1000 each, and we still had fixed recurring revenues of several hundred dollars per month, with minimum income. As we learned to buy cheaper CPE, do better and cheaper installs, and as we got enough clients to cover the T1 costs and rent and salaries, it NOW costs us under $200 cash out of pocket to add a new client, and adds only about $7/mo to the bottom line recurring costs, and $48 (average) monthly gross revenue. Our second 300 subscribers will be MUCH cheaper and easier to add than the 1st 300. Pete Davis NoDial.net Mark Nash wrote: My partner has done some quick analysis at COST PER CUSTOMER. This does not include CPE hardware or one-time purchases...just monthly expenses that must be covered by revenue from our customers. Items like fuel, insurance, tower leases, bandwidth, billing administration, support costs, cell phones, etc. He came up with about $37 COST per subscriber. I'm not really interested in how much we charge at this point...just coming up with a valid calculation of COST. Does $37 per subscriber seem right? I think it's high (I've only given it about 15 minutes worth of thought). This is something, of course, that everyone should be looking at, so I think some discussion would be helpful. Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Re: wisp-router
If I sell you something, and you don't call me to tell me there is a problem with it for a month, I will assume that you got it, and it worked just fine. If you call me a month later and just opened the box and the product inside isn't what you remember ordering, then it seems like someone needs to draw the line somewhere. Would you go back to a store and tell them that the VCR you bought 3 months ago was missing the remote control? Do you think they would believe you? Is there a time limit (longer than 7 days I assume) that you think that the vendor should have adequate expectation that you have had time to receive and inspect the goods that they shipped? Their printed policy was apparently 7 days. What do you think would be fair? 30 days? 90 days? forever? You sent payment. They shipped a box, and stated that you should inspect the box to insure the accuracy of the order. When there was no response in 7 days, it seems fair for them to assume that the box met your expectations. This reminds me of subs whose first call to complain, they tell me that its been down for 2 weeks. I usually ask them if their phone service has been down that whole time too, since they haven't called. Pete Davis NoDial.net Brian Rohrbacher wrote: My opinion. FYI For those of you who remember this.. I am still fighting them. They disputed my dispute. LOL Who do they think they are to take my money and not send the product? Anyway, I will not give up on this. They will learn it's not ok to steal. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Anyone ever have trouble with them. FYI They just informed me it is my fault they didn't ship me out what I paid for. I've never done anything with Mikrotik. I ordered what a friend told me to, I don't know what anything looks like, I assumed when I looked in the box it was all there. Well, I have Butch lined up an am ready to use it and...imagine that, I'm missing parts. Maybe I didn't call within the first 7 days. Who gives a fart! Be warned. I just got screwed. Credit card dispute to the rescue again. Ahh, this just pisses me off. I should get what I paid for. I don't lie. I know I didn't get the part. Speaking of not getting it. Don't these people know the customer (ME) is always right? I can't get away with this crap with my subs, that's for sure. Just so ya'll know, when I first called, the guy I talked to said it looked like it might not have been shipped. They would look into is and call me back. I was happy and thinking how I would post to the list and say how fast they helped me and solved my problem. Nope. Not today. I was promptly called back and blamed for their poor quality control. Also, where can I order a RB564 Daughterboard to replace the one the ups guy must have stole? Not wisp-router. Need it overnight. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] My CPE dream list (what does yours do, or wish it did?)
Mark Koskenmaki wrote: -- What do you firewall? I have a small list of ports I firewall, but havent' found it to be a big issue. Waverider client bridges (EUMs) port block several ports, including SMB by default, which is a nice feature, since it keeps the traffic off the air before it gets back to the core router to filter. Port filtering in the CPE is a nice capability to have, IMO. These ports blocked don't effect PPPOE connections, but its nice NOT to see every user's shared printer on the WAN. Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Gov't Gets One Right
The faster it becomes a fundamental human right the faster we migrate from being entrepreneurs, and start becoming the same level as water workers, sewer workers, trash pickup, postal workers, and whatever. The more the government gets involved with something, the worse it gets. When the bureaucrats get to making things like this a required service (which they inevitably will in our lifetimes) then there will be no difference than a utility or postal service, with prices capped and profitability extinguished. Another thing that will take us this direction will be the mass consolidation similar to the 250 phone companies that all became ATT in the first part of the 1900's. They all were either bought up or squashed by the competition. Maybe we won't all end up like that. Hard to say. Pete Davis NoDial.net chris cooper wrote: Not to shoot myself in the foot here, but a fundamental human right? That's just grandstanding. Take a hit from the reality pipe- people are homeless, people starve to death right here in the good ole USA. The list could go on and on about folks whose basic needs and rights are not being met. Im with Tom- many people just aren't willing to pay what the service costs. I wish they were though. Chris Broadband is a fundamental civil right and human right, Bill de Blasio, a city council member, said during the session on Wednesday. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Gov't Gets One Right
Tom DeReggi wrote: The only exception to this is the FREE Net / Muni Net. Big ventures need big companies and big pockets. MOst likely that problem will take care of itself. First, consumers hate marketing and SPAM. Do you think they are going to embrase the solution that guarantees they are going to get spammed and chewed their productivity and bandwdith up with advertising crap? The false promise designs, are going to piss off the consumers. I think it jsut won;lt succeed enough to be a threat. The best part is the new 5.4Ghz spectrum allocated. It will allow a HUGE larger amount of options to co-exist with Muni nets and other ISPs. I agree strongly with your post, with the possible long-term coexistence with muni-nets. I see a problem fundamentally with municipally and federally funded/managed broadband projects with virtually unlimited budgets and manpower. It reduces broadband to a utility that EVERYONE needs and the government has to give you as an entitlement. Think that's not bad for the entrepreneurs? Try starting a water company that competes with the city's water system. Or a power company. Or a 1st class mail delivery service. I don't think I can get $12/hr union workers to hand-deliver mail to houses for $0.39/letter and make a profit. Once those services are established as we gotta have it type services, and the government starts to provide it (even though they charge for them) there is NO room for competition in most of those areas. The prices for postage, electricity, and water delivery are all pretty much set by the providers. If most cities delivered broadband the way they do water, electricity and mail, the prices would be too low for any of us to compete on any real scale, and the WISP startup wouldn't exist, since the government's pockets are too deep, and they have NEVER needed to make a profit. Those of us who started these things started because of a NEED. If someone took away that need before we got here, I wouldn't have started here, and wouldn't be operating a WISP today. Are my days as an individual small wisp numbered? Yes. I am sure. The government and/or a monopolistic telco will eventually fill the gap that I am bridging right now. Hopefully AFTER I have the chance to fund a retirement, college for the kids, and maybe pay for a house to die in. Cashing out selling the business is a nice idea, and hopefully some greedy SOB will buy my business for enough money to make me go away, but thats been my exit strategy from day one, I think. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Switch recommendations
The switch I am looking to replace is at my core, tying my APs together, and to the main router. The one I am looking at/leaning to is the Dell Powerconnect 2708. Its Web manageable, and has some pretty impressive features, including broadcast storm control VLan tagging, and port mirroring. Pretty impressive for $76. http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pwcnt/en/pwcnt_27xx_specs.pdf http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/pwcnt_2708?c=uscs=04l=ens=bsd Pete Davis NoDial.net John J. Thomas wrote: Where are these being used? If it is at the customer edge, it will be different than if at your core. The Netgear FS726T runs between 100 and 200 dollars and supports up to 8000 MAC adresses. John -Original Message- From: Pete Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 07:05 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Switch recommendations I was wondering what switch has the largest mac address table. I don't need more than 6 ports, but the $19.95 cheapy switches that my AP Bridges all go into might be hurting my performance, I am thinking. If shelling out $100 or so for a good switch makes sense, I am willing to get one, but I don't want to spend money where its not needed. What does the professional ISP use? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers
Yeah. I bought a $45 pair of Ideal brand crimpers, and it was definitely money well spent. I am familiar with those ratcheting ones, too. They are nice. The $15 that come free with a box of cable sometimes are what we WERE using, but we were having to redo ends more often than not. It was rare to get a 2 crimp install done with just two ends with cheap crimpers. Pete Davis NoDial.net Mark Koskenmaki wrote: The local electronics store sold me a pair of crimpers that listed for $55, but since the package was trashed, he gave me $10 off. Boy, I have never regretted it. No more of those cheap ones. Not a single bad crimp since I changed crimpers and yes, we use the cheap standard ends. We had issues with the regular ones, even though we had tried 3 different pairs of crimpers. We never left a customer with a bad cable, but there was a couple times the c able didn't work, and visually inspecting the crimp showed a deficiency. These things are NOT very convenient to use, but they have this ratcheting mechanism that won't let you let loose of the connector until you squeeze all the way.The plug is tight in the crimper, and they are very heavy. Not a single bad crimp since then. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: Pete Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers I have bought those before. They are kind of a cool novelty, but they don't add THAT much reliability/speed/ease of use/etc IMO. pd Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: That's it. Thanks! Do you really pay $.60 per connector??? Maybe it's not as nice of a tool as I thought laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Aubrey Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers http://www.happcontrols.com/electrical_supplies/92060900.htm --- Aubrey Wells One Ring Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] o: (404) 601.1407 f: (404) 601.1408 c: (770) 356.9767 Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for a crimper I saw someone talk about. It uses special rj45 connectors that allow the cable to go through the end. Then the crimper crimps and cuts to length at the same time. Anyone know what it's called and where to get the connectors and the crimper? thanks! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks
Welcome back to the list, Roger. Marlon, I had a crimper like that with a crack in it. Poor crimps kept biting me in the posterior, till I bought one of these: http://www.all-spec.com/1/viewitem/30-496/ALLSPEC/prodinfo/allspecsession=1393318938D195632promoid=w3path=vend I got mine locally from a electrician supply place, but approx that price. The end goes in closer to the axis of the lever as cheaper crimpers, so you crimp twice as hard with less effort, and there is a stop you can feel when you have crimped hard enough. After using this one, I am through buying $15-$20 crimpers like this one: http://www.cablesnmor.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPRODProdID=272 or even the $25 ones Radioshack sells. Pete Davis NoDial.net Marlon K. Schafer wrote: dude! We're working on getting people to fill out the fcc forms. We're hunting for new spectrum (current fight is for unused tv spectrum). Today I checked on the 5.4 band. It's to the spell check the certification docs phase. We're very close on that one! Also checked on 3650 and tv white spaces (at the fcc), nothing new to report at this time. As for a really fun one.. Yesterday I found out that there's a hairline crack on my cat5 crimper. It's not pushing the connectors all of the way down. Don't know if it's been that way for 2 days, 2 months or 2 years. I do know that I've got a lot, maybe hundreds, of connections that aren't completely crimped! Guess I'll be finding them over the next few years. sigh Great to see ya here. Hope you stick around man. For an old man like you, it's probably a good thing you are spending a lot of time near hospitals! roflol That help? marlon - Original Message - From: Roger Boggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks Bored to tears in a hotel room outside of Richmond, VA so I thought I'd jump onto this list and see who's here and what we're talking about lately. Haven't been doing much outdoor wireless stuff for more than a year now.. All indoor - mostly in hospitals and warehouses in support of RFID installations.. Just seeing what's hot and what's not these days. Carry on. Roger Boggs -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers
I have bought those before. They are kind of a cool novelty, but they don't add THAT much reliability/speed/ease of use/etc IMO. pd Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: That's it. Thanks! Do you really pay $.60 per connector??? Maybe it's not as nice of a tool as I thought laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Aubrey Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers http://www.happcontrols.com/electrical_supplies/92060900.htm --- Aubrey Wells One Ring Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] o: (404) 601.1407 f: (404) 601.1408 c: (770) 356.9767 Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for a crimper I saw someone talk about. It uses special rj45 connectors that allow the cable to go through the end. Then the crimper crimps and cuts to length at the same time. Anyone know what it's called and where to get the connectors and the crimper? thanks! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Wimax/portable wimax story on wired.com
http://www.wired.com/news/columns/1,70241-0.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz performance (Latency, Throughput)
The 900Mhz pricing has always been higher than 2.4ghz 802.11x on price. Probably always will be. What 900mhz buys you is NLOS performance. 900mhz links will cut through trees that 802.11b only dreams about. I am not sure how well the new Ubiquiti cards running 802.11 on them will do with NLOS. Waverider is the 900mhz I am familiar with, and part of the positive things about it are the way it will retry packets up to 3 times before failing them. I don't think that 802.11 has a packet retry as part of its protocol. Another downside of Waverider (or any other 900mhz as far as I know) its that a Waverider 900mhz Access point (CCU) is only good for 2mbps total network throughput, and 1.5mbps to any one client. Pete Davis NoDial.net Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Something needs to be done about this 900mhz pricing, at these prices I can justify setting up more 2.4ghz to get to these last mile customers. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Blair Davis *Sent:* Monday, February 20, 2006 7:54 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 900MHz performance (Latency, Throughput) That is why I posted the request on 900MHz myself I am suprised that no distributors or manufactures has replied yet... Dylan Bouterse wrote: We are in the beginning stages of evaluating 900MHz for our wireless portfolio. I’m very interested to hear about implemented systems and what kind of max throughput and latency is expected. Any help is greatly appreciated. **Dylan Bouterse . **Sr. System Engineer ___ *p.* 352.253.2200 *f.* 352.742.2211 *e.* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]_ *i.* http://www.power1.com http://www.power1.com/ - www.onepowerfulsolution.com http://www.onepowerfulsolution.com/ - www.power1golf.com http://www.power1golf.com/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/263 - Release Date: 2/16/2006 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900MHz performance (Latency, Throughput)
Agreed. 1534k to the client is something I have yet to see on Waverider. Setting the GOS (Grade of service) to 1024k and setting the queue in Mikrotik to 512k seems to work reasonably well. YMMV. pd chris cooper wrote: I wouldn't bank on the 1.5 Mb per client unless you want to dedicate a ccu to them. We have found the 1.5 claim virtually impossible to sustain. It makes the business model unsound as well. chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900MHz performance (Latency, Throughput) The 900Mhz pricing has always been higher than 2.4ghz 802.11x on price. Probably always will be. What 900mhz buys you is NLOS performance. 900mhz links will cut through trees that 802.11b only dreams about. I am not sure how well the new Ubiquiti cards running 802.11 on them will do with NLOS. Waverider is the 900mhz I am familiar with, and part of the positive things about it are the way it will retry packets up to 3 times before failing them. I don't think that 802.11 has a packet retry as part of its protocol. Another downside of Waverider (or any other 900mhz as far as I know) its that a Waverider 900mhz Access point (CCU) is only good for 2mbps total network throughput, and 1.5mbps to any one client. Pete Davis NoDial.net Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Something needs to be done about this 900mhz pricing, at these prices I can justify setting up more 2.4ghz to get to these last mile customers. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Blair Davis *Sent:* Monday, February 20, 2006 7:54 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 900MHz performance (Latency, Throughput) That is why I posted the request on 900MHz myself I am suprised that no distributors or manufactures has replied yet... Dylan Bouterse wrote: We are in the beginning stages of evaluating 900MHz for our wireless portfolio. I'm very interested to hear about implemented systems and what kind of max throughput and latency is expected. Any help is greatly appreciated. **Dylan Bouterse . **Sr. System Engineer ___ *p.* 352.253.2200 *f.* 352.742.2211 *e.* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]_ *i.* http://www.power1.com http://www.power1.com/ - www.onepowerfulsolution.com http://www.onepowerfulsolution.com/ - www.power1golf.com http://www.power1golf.com/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/263 - Release Date: 2/16/2006 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 120* Sectors
Back to backk on a pole might be a problem. Are the antennas at least 6' apart from each other? (horizontally or vertically?) Physical separation may not be an issue until the subscriber numbers go up, but it be a problem. Pete Davis NoDial.net Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Here is what I use. http://www.demarctech.com/products/reliawave-antennas/2_4Ghz/DT-AN-24-120H-135.html I have three mounted back to back on a pole. It all worked fine until I hit a higher number of subscribers. Maybe it's the interference from too many subs or maybe it's the fact that a majority of my subs are locked into 1M air rate, or maybe its because the subs are NLOS, or maybe because of the F/B or side to side isolation. So what is my problems? High pings and timeouts. Only when traffic is high. Or maybe my 600k upload is maxed out and everything is stacking up. One thing I do know is I hooked up subs I shouldn't have. I am looking for advice on antennas. Check out the ones I am using ans point me to 3 sectors that will perform good back to back, NLOS, and maybe a higher gain to grab a little more signal to get the 1M subs up to 11M. Thanks all. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Attempted hack, what would you do?
Victoria wrote: Theoretically, if someone attempted to hack into your network via your router, say at least ten times, what would you do? If you could identify this culprit via logs and IP addresses, where you had them dead to rights, what would you do? ~V~ The times that I have detected attempted hacks, the source IP has always been out of my area. I usually will email a cease and desist request to the DNS Whois abuse address, and block that address from my firewall. If I had a subscriber attempting to break in, I would probably email him the logs and ask him what he is trying to do. Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] remote temp sensors
Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I have a need for remote temp units. I'd prefer one that would email in the case of an out of range condition. These will be used in homes so no need for really extreme stuff. Yes I'll google too. Just wondering what people are using and what they like the best. thanks, marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] remote temp sensors
A friend of mine, Gerry Cullen owns this business: http://www.itwatchdogs.com/ I haven't seen one since the beta unit he gave me, but it worked nicely. I should probably buy some more for my remote locations. pd Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Hi All, I have a need for remote temp units. I'd prefer one that would email in the case of an out of range condition. These will be used in homes so no need for really extreme stuff. Yes I'll google too. Just wondering what people are using and what they like the best. thanks, marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Customer owned wireless coop
There is a town (Yorktown, TX) with about 1200 people in it, about 15 miles away from our main pop in our county. We have not pursued a backhaul to there, or putting out a POP. We are very busy putting subs on our existing POPs and maintaining them.We have been offered roof rights in down town in trade for free internet. The town is poorer than average (way more mobile homes than frame/brick homes, more people than average on welfare, etc) The town is smaller than average, and there aren't many businesses in the town. Nonetheless, we do get at least a new call a week from the 20 or so people in town interested in broadband. There is no competition, EXCEPT dsl in the 2 mile circle right in the middle of downtown (not within most of the population) What we were thinking is this: Let us create a wireless cooperative and let the 20 potential subs buy shares for $500 each. The $10k will buy them a wireless backhaul (to my main tower), an AP tower, and an AP, 20 (coop owned) CPE, and enough manpower for us to deploy. The $40/mo (x1.5 for business customers) that they each pay will go toward buy bandwidth from us, pay for the manpower needed to deal with service calls, etc. Any profits left at the end of the year (over a capital equipment fund) get split with the coop members in the form of a dividend check, and maybe a barbeque. Maybe the non-coop member subscriber rate could be $49.00 (x1.5 for business) and they would still pay a $200 setup fee. Coop members wouldn't need to be subscribers, and subscribers wouldn't need to be coop members. A part time bookeeper would be needed to keep everything straight, although we could just keep those records with our books, but they should be audited anually. The Dewitt County Producers Coop is a feed store that sells feed, ranch supplies, baby chicks, baby fish (for stock tanks), tractor tires and parts, and other farm-ey stuff. Members and non-members can buy there, though members get an annual dividend based on their purchases (2% or something). Its a large operation, but DeWitt County is like the 4th largest beef cattle producing county in Texas (the largest beef cattle producing state). They have been very successful, in spite of having competition, and I think a wireless internet deployment could be financially modeled the same way. Its not that I don't want to get the profits for myself, but the return on a $10k (or $20k) deployment could be several years in a market that small. Anyone else doing anything like this? Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Customer owned wireless coop
Well, in the coop model, if there are only 10 subs, and the group is losing money (like I would be if I paid for a T1 out there, not so bad if I feed it wirelessly) its up to the members (coop owners) to get more subscribers. This model would give me limited upside, and VERY limited downside to the project's success or failure. pd Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Around here most peoples option is DIAL-UP or me. I don't consider this area poor. A lot of farms. People living out in the rural area and drive to their factory jobs/whatever. I have a hard time getting them to pay $199 install and 34.95/month for 768k. I don't know how your gonna charge $50/month to people living in trailers. -Kurt There is a town (Yorktown, TX) with about 1200 people in it, about 15 miles away from our main pop in our county. We have not pursued a backhaul to there, or putting out a POP. We are very busy putting subs on our existing POPs and maintaining them.We have been offered roof rights in down town in trade for free internet. The town is poorer than average (way more mobile homes than frame/brick homes, more people than average on welfare, etc) The town is smaller than average, and there aren't many businesses in the town. Nonetheless, we do get at least a new call a week from the 20 or so people in town interested in broadband. There is no competition, EXCEPT dsl in the 2 mile circle right in the middle of downtown (not within most of the population) What we were thinking is this: Let us create a wireless cooperative and let the 20 potential subs buy shares for $500 each. The $10k will buy them a wireless backhaul (to my main tower), an AP tower, and an AP, 20 (coop owned) CPE, and enough manpower for us to deploy. The $40/mo (x1.5 for business customers) that they each pay will go toward buy bandwidth from us, pay for the manpower needed to deal with service calls, etc. Any profits left at the end of the year (over a capital equipment fund) get split with the coop members in the form of a dividend check, and maybe a barbeque. Maybe the non-coop member subscriber rate could be $49.00 (x1.5 for business) and they would still pay a $200 setup fee. Coop members wouldn't need to be subscribers, and subscribers wouldn't need to be coop members. A part time bookeeper would be needed to keep everything straight, although we could just keep those records with our books, but they should be audited anually. The Dewitt County Producers Coop is a feed store that sells feed, ranch supplies, baby chicks, baby fish (for stock tanks), tractor tires and parts, and other farm-ey stuff. Members and non-members can buy there, though members get an annual dividend based on their purchases (2% or something). Its a large operation, but DeWitt County is like the 4th largest beef cattle producing county in Texas (the largest beef cattle producing state). They have been very successful, in spite of having competition, and I think a wireless internet deployment could be financially modeled the same way. Its not that I don't want to get the profits for myself, but the return on a $10k (or $20k) deployment could be several years in a market that small. Anyone else doing anything like this? Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Kurt Fankhauser WaveLinc www.wavelinc.com 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Virtual AP
Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a Virtual AP with a secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it. Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so you can access the CPE with the old ssid. I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on the same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward residential service, and another company name/marketing scheme for business customers. I don't know what kind of performance impact there is when you create a bunch of APs on one radio. I had a wierd thought about this, however: If I have 40 clients on an AP, and set up 40 virtual AP's on the network with each client on his own SSID, do they count as 40 PTP links, allowing me to kick up the antenna gain like with the CPE? Does the virtual AP really broadcast a secondary SSID, or does it switch between the two rapidly, kind of like a poor man's Time Division Multiplexing. Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
If you have a competitor on a nearby tower who is uncooperative with you on channel coordination or whatever, I could see this as a way to goof with your competitor, by having his clients associate with you instead, and flood their technical support lines with calls. Having the virtual AP only run from 3:30pm to 4:30pm every other Monday could really make things fun for them to figure out. Thats a mean thing to do, and I would never recommend that anyone do unto others as they wouldn't have done to them. If a competitor goes broke and pulls the plug on his AP, this could REALLY be benificial, as you could advertise on the hotspot signin screen that there will be no setup fee for former brandX clients. If you turn on universal client, you might pick up a customer who sees your tower better than your competitor. About as underhanded and unethical as callforwarding his sales line to yours, but Pete Davis NoDial.net John Scrivner wrote: Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what positive effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a good thing to do. Scriv Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, We don't do that. Then what, do you get called by the competitor? I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help you? I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the future. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/ The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! *-- Original Message ---* From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only do DSL) :) I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to a local computer guy that likes to see his name in the air - the virtual SSID thing was a natural win... Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit because of the virtual ssid's ... R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a Virtual AP with a secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it. Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so you can access the CPE with the old ssid. I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on the same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward residential service, and another company name/marketing scheme for business customers. I don't know what kind of performance impact there is when you create a bunch of APs on one radio. I had a wierd thought about this, however: If I have 40 clients on an AP, and set up 40 virtual AP's on the network with each client on his own SSID, do they count as 40 PTP links, allowing me to kick up the antenna gain like with the CPE? Does the virtual AP really broadcast a secondary SSID, or does it switch between the two rapidly, kind of like a poor man's Time Division Multiplexing. Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Networks Reveals Prototype902-928MHzMini-PCICard
With all of the current 900mhz AP's and CPE out there currently a closed/proprietary system (not an 802.x open standard) for the handshaking, security, ack/nack, etc, I am curious if/how Mikrotik, StarOS, Windows, or whoever will talk to them. Has all of that programming been worked out? They won't actually be able to associate with an existing Waverider, Proxim, Trango, Tranzeo, or Alvarion, or whatever AP/CPE will they? I would assume not. I would love to deploy a 900Mhz system where I am not locked into a single source hardware providor. Open standards avoid things like getting stuck with things like Karlnet or whoever when they go out of business. If Mikrotik were to make a proprietary standard, it would be a shame (although waiting on IEEE might not be effective/appropriate), but Mikrotik is not going anywhere IMO, and its affordable enough. pd Eje Gustafsson wrote: They just finished their 6th prototype and found out some issues with the current Atheros chipsets in regards to adjustable frequency selection. They are looking at making a new prototype with the latest chipset. The cards where not estimated to be available and ready until around Jan/Feb and more then likely your not going to see any cards until Feb at this point since they have to redesign them a bit. But it's all for the better. / Eje WISP-Router, Inc Ubiquiti Distributor -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Networks Reveals Prototype902-928MHzMini-PCICard Anyone heard anything more about these 900MHz mini-PCI cards from Ubiquiti? Their web site doesn't seem to mention them IMHO, their web site is useless -- Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: OK, talking about all of the ways that Trango has to fine tune the radios has me thinking. I've got two systems that I'm having some trouble with. Both are low to the ground and I'm sure I'm seeing multipath. GREAT speed tests radio to radio but poor data rates and high error rates (5% most of the time). Still much better than the wifi it's replaced but it needs to be better. I don't know the cli on these radios and don't have the time, desire or need to learn. I do need some help from someone that knows them insideout. Anyone need an hour or two of consulting to help me get these two systems polished up so that they run at full speed? thanks, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Networks Reveals Prototype902-928MHzMini-PCICard JohnnyO, When you can tell me you've installed In this type of noisy environment Of course every environment is different. But We have with great success with Trango. Try colocating right next to qty 5 - 929Mhz 500 watt OMNIs, and the same horizontal plain in Urban america with -60db RSSIs from them, -30db RSSIs on the top channel. Feel free to share one technical reason why the Canopy is capable of dealing with interference better than Trango. (other than personal experience, because that can not be verified or accurately debated). My guess is in your environment, you weren't taking advantage of Trango's flexibility and using the best polarity for the job. I find most noise, such as from SCADA systems, are on verticle polarity, very easy to combat with a radio like Trango that supports horizontal pol antennas on the fly. You probably were using omnis or testing with Trango default antennas. Try matching up Trango w/ Tiltek Horizontal sector w/ their convenient ext antenna port on all APs and CPEs capable to add narrow beam Yagis. Trango has 3 ways to combat interference. 1- dual pol switchable, 2- dynamic leveling to compress out noise, 3- ARQ The choice for 900 Mhz radios is florishing right now, all very high grade radios (WaveRider, Alvarion, Tranmgo, Canopy, AirSpan, WaveIP). All have their own little unique benefits that make them special. Alvarion- Mobile. WaveRider- Dual Polarity Diverity. Trango- Dual Pol switchable + ARQ + great diag tools. Canopy- easy interface w/ diag statistic for Jitter and such. But as far as surviving noise, not confident that Canopy shines in that territory above Trango. I just don't believe it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 9:08 PM Subject: RE:
Re: [WISPA] WISPA and volunteers
I think the Limited Business Interruption is where if the company makes 10k/mo, and you are down for a month because of a fire, lightning, etc, the policy pays you $10k. The Fungi Limited Business Interruption, is posibly an exclusion or an inclusion in the event that you have mold in your building that needs to be eradicated, causing revenue loss. Some policies specifically exclude fungi stuff, because its debatable how much of a health risk it REALLY is, and its also often tied to water damage, which may or may not be covered in building insurance plans. Its also hard to prove that the building had no mold when the policy started, since ALL buildings have some mold in them. pd Dylan Oliver wrote: I'm interested in group insurance. Been talking to United (through wispinsurance.com http://wispinsurance.com) and could use better rates .. this is what we've been offered: $2,128 general liability property + $700 umbrella + $250 program administration charges + $1,250 professional EO (optional) + $250 EO administration charges (optional) + $250 Healthy Safety Manual (maybe optional). The coverage includes two tower locations with $50k and a premium of $585. And what is Fungi Limited Business Interruption? In case I eat a quarter of mushrooms and trip balls for a month? Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Alvarion just made Cramers BUY list.
For the record, I like Jim Cramer, and listen to him when I can. I don't always see things as sunshin-ey or as cloudy as he does. to quote Cramer in Yahoo finance: Cramer is bullish on Israeli wireless broadband connectivity company Alvarion (ALVR:Nasdaq - commentary - research - Cramer's Take) as a play on the expected growth in WiMax. WiMax, said Cramer, could be huge as it has a range of 30 miles as opposed to WiFi, which is measured in feet. Alvarion has made a profit in just two years of its 10-year history, though, said Cramer. But, at $7.67 -- where the stock closed Thursday -- the stock is cheap, he said. Cramer believes that Alvarion's stock has bottomed and that the catalyst for the stock to move higher should come early next year when industry standards for WiMax are expected to be decided upon. Asked about the possibility of Alvarion getting acquired, Cramer said he never speculates on takeovers when a company's earnings are declining. He is "playing it for the earnings, and they've got to come back." I don't know what makes Alvarion's wimax [not released yet] entry into the market any better than the wimax product offerings from every other [not released yet] entry into the market. Kind of a funny thing to speculate on, and talking to ANY manufacturer, you get the impression that THEY have the Wimax market wrapped up just as soon as they start shipping, since Wimax will offer us 30 mile NLOS 400Gbps $40CPE etc etc. Manufacturing problems, marketing problems, pricing problems etc may all fly in the face of ANY manufacturer. I am not trying to downplay Alvarion's products, strategies, or company, but I don't know about risking my hard earned money on a non-shipping product line. On the other hand, $8 is probably cheap for this company. Just incase I have missed something... has anyone actually shipped a Wimax compliant product? Is the Wimax standard been ratified? I kind of tuned out the hype about a year ago, and havent really been following it. Pete Davis NoDial.net George wrote: Congradts to anyone who owns Alvarion stock. You'll see a nice bunp tomorrow. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anyone (or everyone) else getting spam from AdZilla?
Butch Evans wrote: On Mon, 31 Oct 2005, Pete Davis. NoDial.net wrote: What the heck is this?? Is anyone else out there partnering with these spammers? I replied and told them that we don't do business I did not get an email like that (or the Barracuda caught it). Please post a name so that I can be sure to not do business with them anyway. Thanks. Here is the total email, including the headers: Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 74094 invoked by uid 1013); 31 Oct 2005 21:48:28 - Received: from [EMAIL PROTECTED] by s2.NoDial.net by uid 89 with qmail-scanner-1.22 (clamscan: 0.65. spamassassin: 2.60. Clear:RC:0(69.20.58.226):SA:0(0.0/6.5):. Processed in 2.854998 secs); 31 Oct 2005 21:48:28 - X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=6.5 Received: from unknown (HELO server45.appriver.com) (69.20.58.226) by 64-123-108-2.ded.swbell.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2005 21:48:25 - Received: from [69.20.58.237] (HELO server52.appriver.com) by server45.appriver.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with ESMTP id 319869339; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:43:21 -0500 Received: from mail.adzilla.com [209.17.141.200] by server52.appriver.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AFF5990A006C; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:43:17 -0500 Received: from [192.168.4.193] (unknown [192.168.4.193]) by mail.adzilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B0577085; Mon, 31 Oct 2005 13:41:05 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.2.0.050811 Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 13:43:19 -0800 Subject: Business Partnership with NoDial.net From: Martin Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thread-Topic: Business Partnership with NoDial.net Thread-Index: AcXeZBuJWkSLMkpXEdqjlwARJHyOvg== Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=B_3213611000_26892301 X-Note: Spam-Tests-Failed: None X-Note-WHTLIST: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Note-Reverse-DNS: h209-17-141-200.gtconnect.net X-Note-Sending-IP: 209.17.141.200 X-Country-Path: CANADA-destination This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3213611000_26892301 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hello Pete, I noticed one of your recent postings on WISPA list and thought that I would introduce myself to you and find out if you have some time to learn how our services help ISPs increasing the Average Revenue earned per End-User. =20 My organization is developing strategic partnerships with ISPs around North America and I would like to present our unique revenue sharing business proposition to your company. We had a very successful show at ISPCON where we met up with many existing and potential partners. I have a presentation that I=B9d like to run through with you that outlines our history and value propositions, our technology and its applications and the potential revenue earned and cost savings achieved by ISPs becoming a partner with Adzilla. I hope to be able to talk with you soon. Respectfully, Martin Stewart Regional Account Director - Network Group Adzilla New Media Direct: 604.628.4369 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Anyone (or everyone) else getting spam from AdZilla?
I just got an email that was apparently based on my posting to wispa list. Hello Pete, I noticed one of your recent postings on WISPA list and thought that I would introduce myself to you and find out if you have some time to learn how our services help ISPs increasing the Average Revenue earned per End-User. blah blah blah What the heck is this?? Is anyone else out there partnering with these spammers? I replied and told them that we don't do business with those who contact me unsolicited, and unless they come HIGHLY recommended by another ISP, I won't be contacting them. According to their website, they help kill viruses and spyware by delivering filtered ads. Can anyone tell me if these guys are legit. The whole thing seems goofy to me. Am I missing something? Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Senao Question
All prices from wisp-router.com. You may find better prices elsewhere, but Eje's usually seem to be in line. 2611 CB3 Deluxe = $94.83 (qty 24) PacWireless Rootenna = RT24-14 = $36.90 (qty 25) UML (Satellite Arm) = $13.45 A 3 inch piece of Velcro tape holds in in just fine. They seem to handle 100 degree + days in South Texas without any problem. I don't think I have had any fail due to heat or cold. It got down to the teens last winter. Pete Davis NoDial.net Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Pete, Will you list out all the parts and prices of this 200mw CPE? Is this outdoor, POE? It is kind a build your own? What temperatures is this operation in? Brian George wrote: Pete Davis. NoDial.net wrote: I like the features of the Tranzeos, the Smartbridges, etc etc, but at $100 more per CPE, my 200 2611 clients would have cost me $20k more. If anyone can tell me another way to get a 36db POE client for less than $150 PLEASE contact me off list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I learned that the hard way. Pete Davis NoDial.net Well I would say that Teletronics EZ Bridges were good. I have 500 +/- of them. And they have a 200MW version. But lately, I've been getting some bad ones in my orders. The 100mw pcb kit is 100.00 or so and the 200mw is 125.00 or so. But I would caution buyer beware, since buying the pcb only version and not the full fledges outdoor unit, I've noticed a lot of doa''s and unstable units. Will be nice when StarVX Lonnie gets his single radio cpe. I understand it may be in the price range you mentioned. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Senao Question
I got them from wisp-router.com but I don't think they carry them anymore. pd Dylan Oliver wrote: Pete, Where do you buy these EZ-Y bridges? -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Senao Question
The 3054's suck. If you can keep them airconditioned, they might stay up for you for a while, but they SEEM to bee overly sensitive to heat. I have a 3054 that I use for my kid's bedroom PC, one for my PC workbench, and a few other locations where I could probably get by with a USB adapter, but since I bought 24 of these POS's, I use them wherever I have a NON mission-critical application, or stuff like that. I once plugged in 10 of them around the house. and associated them all to a Linksys router, and pinged all of them for a week without a failure. In a test environment I don't think I have ever had one fail, but in the field, they seem to spontanieously crap out. A cheap WDS alternative is a EZ-Y net bridges. I have one on a roof with an omni, about two miles from a MTik AP and associated in WDS mode, and it seems to work well to fill in the blanks for nearby customers. Pete Davis NoDial.net 361.277.FAST Dylan Oliver wrote: Speaking of Senao ... I just ran across some really nasty reviews of the nl-3054 CB3+. My client wants to share a cable connection at one house with two others with LOS and within 100ft. Sounds easy enough, but those reviews (worst product ever) have me looking again elsewhere. But nothing else seems to offer WPA. The 802.11g is nice, but could pass. Anyone have anything decent to say about these? Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Senao Question
What I have experienced is that 30% or better is usually a solid signal quality. 15% or better is usually a solid signal strength. I have never figured out a % to dbm translation. The web-only non-snmp interface is my least favorite thing about 2611 CB3 Deluxes. My most favorite thing about them is the price. 2611's inside rootennas are my typical installation. With all hardware and mounting brackets, masts, etc, I am laying out less than $200 per install, and paying the installer contractor $125.. I have around 200 deployed like what you are describing. I have almost 100 more clients with different CPE. I like the features of the Tranzeos, the Smartbridges, etc etc, but at $100 more per CPE, my 200 2611 clients would have cost me $20k more. If anyone can tell me another way to get a 36db POE client for less than $150 PLEASE contact me off list to [EMAIL PROTECTED] A note of caution/education to pass along to anyone implementing the rootenna/cb3 combination: If the rootenna is one of the revisions that doesn't have a grounding clip to pull out [to make contact with the back bracket] put in a ground wire from the front to the back, and ground the pole. Un-Grounded, the static discharge from a nearby lightning will often leave the 2511 radio card [inside the 2611 bridge] in a in-sensitive state. I learned that the hard way. Pete Davis NoDial.net Jason wrote: Guys ( gals), Has anyone worked with the Senao 2611 Deluxe Plus/Rootenna combo? How do you interpret the Communications Quality % and the Signal Strength % values? What are some typical numbers that you like to see/know will work (maybe break it down by thru-put)? Right now I have an 8 mile link with 28% quality and 16% signal strength. It's sticking to 11Mbits/sec, but I have no way to test the throughput at the moment. Jason -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TV Interference
I had the same thing recently. I raised the rootenna above the TV antenna, and the white dots went away. Pete Davis NoDial.net Scott Reed wrote: OK, I have dealt with TV interference before, but this one has me stumped. Installed customer 4 weeks ago. All is fine. Over last week, signal strenght started degrading. Customer complained about speed slowdown. Customer was out of town for weekend but we went out Saturday and RSSI was really bad. Did some testing. Replaced 15dB antenna with a 19. Raised about 4. Signal strength improved dramatically. Customer came home Sunday and there were dots/lines in channels 2 and 5. Channel 7 works fine. The 2 7 transmitters are not far from each other. Unplugged radio and dots/lines went away. Plugged it back in, dots/lines. So, why only channels below 7 and why only with the new antenna? Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Satellite Anyone?
The high latency of satelite based internet makes it un-friendly for VOIP, VPN, online gaming, etc. The slow upload speed that is usually offered doesn't make it very friendly for much else. I have considered getting one to redirect P2P traffic to in order to free up T1's. Pete Davis NoDial.net David A. Browning wrote: I use satellite in my mobile wireless distribution trailers. With commercial grade accounts the bandwidth is decent, but the inherent latency makes VOIP typically unusable. You of course notice some delay on the click through items as well, but what do you expect for a signal that has to travel 50,000 miles round trip? There are better systems than Direcway, but the equipment costs are ten times more. Direcway's systems are based on TV signal and data has to be converted in the transition, others are based off data signals only have far lower latency. Thanks! David A. Browning Advanced Wireless Networks (541) 280-5834 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 7:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Satellite Anyone? It's common outside the US as there are often not good connections to even the largest cities in many countries. In the US I've heard of it being done. Usually the costs are much higher and the performance lower than lan based systems (for $300 to $400 per month you can get a 5 year lease on a LOT of high end backhaul gear and cover many tens of miles). laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:25 PM Subject: [WISPA] Satellite Anyone? Hello everyone, Has anyone successfully used satellite (ie, Directway 7700 or similar) as their source of upstream bandwidth? If so or if not, why? How did it turn out? Any suggestions? T1's are hard to come by here, and I'm still shopping for alternatives. Jason Wallace WISP Startup in AZ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.1/104 - Release Date: 9/16/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.1/104 - Release Date: 9/16/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
