RE: time question, as in ntp?
Hi, >> $ cat /etc/network/interfaces [...] >> # The primary network interface >> allow-hotplug ens32 >> iface ens32 inet static > Depending on what services your computer runs, you may wish to change > "allow-hotplug ens32" to "auto ens32". Thanks that one got by me when I created a new server. :-( > Of course, if everything is working as you have it, then "don't touch it" is > a wise course. Of course but then, if we know it is not the best config, why wait for it to go wrong. ;-) Bonno Bloksma
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 12/4/23 02:43, gene heskett wrote: So the next question is, is ntpsec serving my time, or utc. This hdware clock is supposedly set to UTC, but what is ntpsec serving? It s/b serving UTC IMO. But I'm in the dark here, haven't had to fool with this in the last 24 years. I'm pretty sure your NTP server will be dealing UTC time; mine, running on a GPS, does, and all the the machines on the net stay in lockstep to within a few dozen microseconds most of the time. I think you have to figure out how to tell your printer driver to set its timezone to Eastern; it's not Debian (or Red Hat or HP-UX or Solaris) and I don't have any idea. If it were debian(-derived) you could say "dpkg-reconfigure tzdata" - might be worth a try. Or maybe consult the vendor. Regards, Tom Dial The current state is that the 3d printer has only a 169.254.x.y link-local address configured as a fallback. Which is now fixed. Thanks all. Cheers, Gene Heskett.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Gene writes: > I've also setup ntpsec as a server on this machine, and have the > printers chrony synching to this machine but the chrony on the printer > is stuck in PST, exactly 4 hours behind this machine regardless of the > setting in /etc/timezone. Chrony only does UTC. chronyc tracking will tell you what time Chrony thinks it is. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 09:30:14AM -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: [...] > It's serving *the* time :-) Well put :-) Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: time question, as in ntp?
> So I put the dhcpd-server on this machine and it worked exact as Dan said it > would. Then I enabled ntpsec to serve and thats working to the whole world. > But the chrony on the printer is stuck in the PST timezone, ignoring the > contents of /etc/timezone. In Unix/Linux/Posix, time is counted in "seconds since the epoch" and is timezone-agnostic. The timezone is only used when converting to/from this number of seconds from/to the usual "year/month/day/hour/minutes/...". > So the printer is 4 hours behind me here on > US/Eastern or America/NewYork zone, both seem to work correctly here. "The printer" is probably not 4 hours behind anything. Presumably it's just some part of the printer's software which chooses to use PST when *displaying* time information. > So the next question is, is ntpsec serving my time, or utc. It's serving *the* time :-) Stefan
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 04/12/2023 11:38, John Hasler wrote: Max Nikulin wrote: From my point of view, it should be possible to put a file with mapping of mac addresses to desired IPs and names to his dd-wrt router. I expect that dnsmasq is running or can be installed there. Dnsmasq as a DHCP server on the router should be better than maintaining hosts files on each machine. dnsmasq will get the hostnames from the machines and put them in its dns. There is really no need to manually enter any MAC addresses or IPs anywhere. IP addresses may be added to some scripts or config files already. My point is that dnsmasq allows to fix IP addresses obtained by clients through DHCP. It is first step to convince that a network managed using a DHCP server is not unstable. I suspect that had the machine been plugged into a network equipped with a properly configured DHCP server it would just work. Sure, but if DHCP server is not running on the router then it will be more tricky to debug next issue. Answering to questions people make enough assumptions and in home networks usually routers play this role.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 12/3/23 22:05, Max Nikulin wrote: On 02/12/2023 23:39, John Hasler wrote: Max Nikulin wrote: As to a GPS receiver, it should be doable and 169.254.x.y addresses will not be an issue any more. Be careful with cables when connecting it however: https://www.wired.com/2012/02/neutrinos-faulty-cable/ CNC machines don't need accurate time. They need precise internal synchronization but that isn't related to the system clocks. The default NTP configuration in most Linux distributions will take care of the system clocks if they have access to the Internet. I was kidding. However "access to the Internet" is the real trouble in this particular case. It seems, the vendor of the 3d printer believes that users must connect the device to a network having a DHCP server. ifupdown is definitely broken in armbian, perhaps armbian way to setup network is broken on this device, but Gene is not going to debug it. His stance that it is NetworkManager that breaks his network. 1. I'll retract that, while there seem to be networkmanager leftovers here and there, there is no nm present on the printer NOW that I can find. And I haven't removed it. 2. I have installed the ISC dhcpd-server on this machine, its working as expected, the printer is now inside my subnet of the 192.168.71 block. 3. I've also setup ntpsec as a server on this machine, and have the printers chrony synching to this machine but the chrony on the printer is stuck in PST, exactly 4 hours behind this machine regardless of the setting in /etc/timezone. In addition, he is strongly against DHCP believing that it will make his network unstable. See above, its installed and working, I've even done a small print job to prove it works. From my point of view, it should be possible to put a file with mapping of mac addresses to desired IPs and names to his dd-wrt router. I expect that dnsmasq is running or can be installed there. Dnsmasq as a DHCP server on the router should be better than maintaining hosts files on each machine. Two reasons, the failure of those 2 seacraates within hours of each a year ago other destroyed all records of passwd's for it, and since the rot pw was 33 chars of random numbers, I'd have to do a factory reset to a broken dd-wrt (It can't do nat) and reinstall a new dd-wrt. Its working so I won't muck with it. So I put the dhcpd-server on this machine and it worked exact as Dan said it would. Then I enabled ntpsec to serve and thats working to the whole world. But the chrony on the printer is stuck in the PST timezone, ignoring the contents of /etc/timezone. So the printer is 4 hours behind me here on US/Eastern or America/NewYork zone, both seem to work correctly here. So the next question is, is ntpsec serving my time, or utc. This hdware clock is supposedly set to UTC, but what is ntpsec serving? It s/b serving UTC IMO. But I'm in the dark here, haven't had to fool with this in the last 24 years. The current state is that the 3d printer has only a 169.254.x.y link-local address configured as a fallback. Which is now fixed. Thanks all. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Max Nikulin wrote: > From my point of view, it should be possible to put a file with > mapping of mac addresses to desired IPs and names to his dd-wrt > router. I expect that dnsmasq is running or can be installed > there. Dnsmasq as a DHCP server on the router should be better than > maintaining hosts files on each machine. dnsmasq will get the hostnames from the machines and put them in its dns. There is really no need to manually enter any MAC addresses or IPs anywhere. I suspect that had the machine been plugged into a network equipped with a properly configured DHCP server it would just work. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 02/12/2023 23:39, John Hasler wrote: Max Nikulin wrote: As to a GPS receiver, it should be doable and 169.254.x.y addresses will not be an issue any more. Be careful with cables when connecting it however: https://www.wired.com/2012/02/neutrinos-faulty-cable/ CNC machines don't need accurate time. They need precise internal synchronization but that isn't related to the system clocks. The default NTP configuration in most Linux distributions will take care of the system clocks if they have access to the Internet. I was kidding. However "access to the Internet" is the real trouble in this particular case. It seems, the vendor of the 3d printer believes that users must connect the device to a network having a DHCP server. ifupdown is definitely broken in armbian, perhaps armbian way to setup network is broken on this device, but Gene is not going to debug it. His stance that it is NetworkManager that breaks his network. In addition, he is strongly against DHCP believing that it will make his network unstable. From my point of view, it should be possible to put a file with mapping of mac addresses to desired IPs and names to his dd-wrt router. I expect that dnsmasq is running or can be installed there. Dnsmasq as a DHCP server on the router should be better than maintaining hosts files on each machine. The current state is that the 3d printer has only a 169.254.x.y link-local address configured as a fallback.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Max Nikulin wrote: > As to a GPS receiver, it should be doable and 169.254.x.y addresses > will not be an issue any more. Be careful with cables when connecting > it however: https://www.wired.com/2012/02/neutrinos-faulty-cable/ CNC machines don't need accurate time. They need precise internal synchronization but that isn't related to the system clocks. The default NTP configuration in most Linux distributions will take care of the system clocks if they have access to the Internet. If not run an NTP server on one machine. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 2023-11-30 19:06, gene heskett wrote: On 11/30/23 09:14, John Hasler wrote: Gene writes: I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in /etc/dhcpcd.conf? You don't. That file tells the client how to get an ip (among other things) from the server. The default configuration should work. You assign static ips on the server when using dhcp. But why do you want to do that? I don't want or need a dhcp-server. For the router/firewall thing I have a PC with pfsense, specifying the DHCP pool. As I don't know what I'm doing it has a web interface. A new install can get an IPaddress from that and I can go on the web interface and make it permanent. So like everything is in one place. cheers mick
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 02/12/2023 05:33, Greg Wooledge wrote: In either case, the static-ness or dynamic-ness of the address is much less important than the fact that the address*works*. You are able to communicate with the printer, using your network. This means the printer should be able to communicate*back*, and specifically, it should be able to contact an NTP server on your network to synchronize its system clock. My guest is that a 169.254.x.y address allows to connect from other hosts that belongs to the same network segment, but the router discards outgoing packets instead of applying masquerading rules. Or the host does not send non-local packets because it does not know a router and no hosts respond to ARP requests. Having IPv4LL addresses, it is possible to connect to other hosts withing the same subnet using multicast mDNS (name.local) or LLMNR name resolution. Actually having a spare ethernet port or a WiFi card that supports hot spot mode, it is possible to create a subnet for this 3d printer. NetworkManager allows to create a "shared" connection with a few clicks. It launches dnsmasq as DNS and DHCP server. The only downside is NAT, so ssh to the printer will require to connect the host sharing network. However it will solve the NTP issue.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 12/1/23 16:22, gene heskett wrote: On 12/1/23 13:27, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 07:30:35AM +, Andy Smith wrote: Hello, On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 10:24:35PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: Gene, Please do us *all* a favour to try and help you. Write us out a list of all your machines - and if a printer has an embedded SBC, it's a machine in this context - and the OS and versions they are running. List the functions you want each to have. As others have noted, it's REALLY hard to work out what you're doing. If machines and printers expect DHCP, then you're going to have to amend files. Do back up the files you change. 1. There is nothing in Debian that ever overwrites the /etc/network/interfaces file. But you aren't running Debian on this machine, so we are all having difficulty helping you. Because this is DEBIAN-user. I'm well aware of that Andy, but TBH, this list may be the deepest pool of knowledgeable people on the planet, most of my machines are running debian. Those that are running buster have been stuck as the switch to python 3 with bullseye broke linuxcnc. Thats now been fixed and has been for a while but I've had my own projects that took priority. There will not be any spinning rust here when I do update to bookworm or trixie. As ever, our collective expertise here is primarily Debian - we have no clue what a derived distribution may or may not do. There is also an overtone of NIH here. These programs are tools and one does his (or her) best thinking well outside the box at times. 2. All you've described is a line in a file which says, "Network is managed by NetworkManager". There is NO indication WHICH piece of software put that line there, it really could be anything. Because you aren't running Debian. Since NetworkManager can be set up to run arbitrary commands, it certainly COULD be YOUR setup of NetworkManager. Or something else entirely different. It's nothing in Debian, though. Then you are incompatible with software you are trying to run. Your options: - do not allow scripts coming with klipper or its installer to touch network configuration They never have, they just use it. And I've used up my patience in explaining that and being mostly ignored. - setup a DHCP server in your network and provide to 3d wizards environment they expect. "Su and say" is not great: running third party scripts on non-Debian systems and you get to keep both pieces unless you undersand what kiauh and Klipper are doing, be careful. Again, Max, its your way or the hiway. I'd be willing to guess that my network experience goes back at least a decade before your first class in cs 101. /etc/hosts files worked in 1990 then as now, we just have to get the dhcp crap out of the way. And you and your insistence on using dhcp which has never given me a stable address are definitely NOT helping. This like some sort of farce. You have an operating system hard-coded to use DHCP, but you won't use DHCP, so it doesn't work. You can't work out how to make it not want DHCP; you won't ask the people who made it how; instead you ask us completely uninvolved folks how to do it. When we tell you to configure it for static networking you say you can't because it wants DHCP. When we say use DHCP then, you say, "oh I see it's your way or the hiway, I'll have you know I was crafting IP packets from raw bean sprouts before you kids ever drew breath!" So would I be correct in saying that you want US to work out how to do this thing in software we don't use and that's off-topic here, and that's the only answer you'll accept? Or have I misunderstood and there is some other direction you would like to go with this? Thanks, Andy It does seem to be a problem on this list that we can't always get clear explanations of what has *actually* been done. Andy That list of machines is long Andy, and possibly boring. 1. The 2nd machine I converted, affectionately known as tlm.coyote.den, ( The Little Monster ), a 7x12 lathe running buster with a real time kernel and linuxcnc, all uptdate. uname -a= Linux TLM 4.19.0-25-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.289-2 (2023-08-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux Running on an off-lease Dell Optiplex computer. 2. A 4 axis mill sold by grizzly as the G0704 running on another off-lease Dell, named go704, using an uptodate buster, uname -a= Linux GO704 4.19.0-25-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.289-2 (2023-08-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux also using linuxcnc. 3. Another 4 axis gantry style mill sold as the 6040, also running buster with a rt kernel and linuxcnc on another off-lease Dell. uname -a= Linux sixty40 4.19.0-25-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.289-2 (2023-08-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux 4. Another lathe, a bigger Sheldon from the mid WW-II time, running on a raspberry pi 4b, bookworm, uname -a= Linux rpi4.coyote.den 6.1.54-rt15 #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT Wed Sep 20 20:36:44 AEST 2023
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 02/12/2023 02:24, gene heskett wrote: On 12/1/23 10:27, Max Nikulin wrote: so I have to repeat it. You *do* *not* have NetworkManager installed hence it can not overwrite files. What particular *evidences* do you have that namely NetworkManager overwrites /etc/network/interfaces? I am not interested in you *speculations*. [...] I do not know the mechanism by which my addition and deletions were done during boot, I had added the correct data to put eth0 at 192.168.71.100 in /e/n/i, and had deleted the line saying it was managed by networkmanager. The evidence I have is that the original file was restored, has only lo and the line giving credit to networkmanager was restored, my additions were gone. Based on the evidence I can see, what else am I supposed to think? The only problem is that neither upstream sources nor debian patches in buster or bookworm contain the "Network is managed" text as in (from an earlier message): root@mkspi:/# cat /etc/network/interfaces source /etc/network/interfaces.d/* # Network is managed by Network manager<-this line I had removed auto lo iface lo inet loopback So ask the 3d printer vendor why you see this misleading line and why ifupdown and NetworkManager are broken. I had a hope that you would at least check list of processes, systemd units, init scripts for something suspicious. Instead I still see speculations again and attempts to blame NetworkManager developers for no reason. Have you tried some online translator to guess meaning of the following? Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 已获取到了扫描的结果 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: WPS-AP-AVAILABLE Have you find files containing these messages?
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Gene writes: > Like I said, boring. Not boring at all. I assume that you also have a desktop or laptop on that network? If I was running it I would *definitely* be using DHCP. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Fri, 1 Dec 2023 23:21:05 +0700 Max Nikulin wrote: > As to a GPS receiver, it should be doable and 169.254.x.y addresses > will not be an issue any more. Be careful with cables when connecting > it however: https://www.wired.com/2012/02/neutrinos-faulty-cable/ And there is plenty of expertise on the gpsd email list. But I would start with the web site, including the how-to on setting up a time server. https://gpsd.io https://gpsd.io/gpsd-time-service-howto.html -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 04:57:25PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > root@mkspi:/etc# ls -ld /etc/network/interfaces > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 106 Jul 24 19:10 /etc/network/interfaces OK. Now we have something to work with, at least. > date > Tue 03 Jan 2023 06:44:56 AM PST > The clock is apparently restarted from midnight 12/1/2022 at every reboot. > This overwrite was done that way as soon as I could login at the old address > with ssh so I have to say it was done by network start time in the bootup > from a 10 second power down. All right, then. Let's see if I have everything straight. At some point in the recent past, you edited /e/n/i. Then you rebooted, an undetermined amount of time later, and after the reboot, the file had been restored to the state shown above. Yes? If we assume the file wasn't changed *prior* to the reboot, then something in the operating system startup must be overwriting this file. If your assertion about the clock being set to 2022-12-01 each boot is correct, then the timestamp on the file is *not* coming from the system clock. It's probably coming from whatever "gold copy" of the file is being restored during startup. There are *lots* of ways a file could be copied and retain the mtime of the original file. "cp -a" is one of them. unicorn:~$ cp -a .bashrc copy-of-bashrc; ls -lad .bashrc copy-of-bashrc; date -rwxr-xr-x 1 greg greg 3329 Nov 12 08:28 .bashrc* -rwxr-xr-x 1 greg greg 3329 Nov 12 08:28 copy-of-bashrc* Fri Dec 1 17:05:52 EST 2023 unicorn:~$ Of course there are many others. Extracting a .tar.gz archive, for example, is another way to do it. You could look through the system startup stuff, wherever that is on this operating system, and see if you find anything about restoring factory default configuration files. If you can't find it, the people who support this operating system might be able to tell you exactly what's happening, and why. You really ought to talk to them. As a side note, copying a "gold standard" /e/n/i file which happens to contain a comment *saying* that it's from Network Manager would retain that comment, possibly leading to some confusion. One might argue that the OS vendor should have replaced the comment with something more accurate. (E.g. "This interfaces file is copied from to /etc/network at boot time. Do not edit this file in /etc/network. If you need to modify it, edit it in instead, but you do so at your own risk.") That's another thing you could talk to the OS support people about, assuming my guesswork holds up. *** Now let's talk about NTP. Originally you asked about installing and configuring an NTP service on this printer. And you had some concerns because you didn't know how to assign a static IP address to it. However, you've stated a few times now that you *are* able to ssh into it, from some other host on your network. The fact that you can ssh into it means that it's got a working IP address (either v4 or v6), and that your ssh client is able to determine that IP address and connect to it. So, either it's already got a static address, or your ssh client configuration is very clever, and knows how to determine the printer's dynamic address. In either case, the static-ness or dynamic-ness of the address is much less important than the fact that the address *works*. You are able to communicate with the printer, using your network. This means the printer should be able to communicate *back*, and specifically, it should be able to contact an NTP server on your network to synchronize its system clock. So all you should have to do is: 1) Determine which host on your network will act as your NTP server. Get an NTP package installed and running on that host, and configure it to allow connections from your LAN. You may select more than one if you like. 2) Make sure the NTP server(s) are getting their time synced correctly, most likely from public NTP sources on the Internet. 3) Install an NTP package on the printer, and configure it to use your designated local NTP server(s). 4) Ensure that the NTP services all start at boot time, and don't get their configuration files overwritten or anything like that. If some part of this doesn't work, then please report the exact nature of the failure, with details (commands and their output). Example commands that would be useful in debugging might include: date ntpq -p systemctl status ntp# or some sysv-rc equivalent ls -ld /etc/ntp.conf cat /etc/ntp.conf journalctl -u ntp # if it's systemd-based; otherwise: grep ntpd /var/log/syslog | tail -n20 You get the idea, I hope. Your logs might be in some other location. Find them. Read them.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 12/1/23 14:42, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 02:24:20PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli -bash: nmcli: command not found I do not know the mechanism by which my addition and deletions were done during boot, I had added the correct data to put eth0 at 192.168.71.100 in /e/n/i, and had deleted the line saying it was managed by networkmanager. The evidence I have is that the original file was restored, has only lo and the line giving credit to networkmanager was restored, my additions were gone. Based on the evidence I can see, what else am I supposed to think? What you showed us above, where you tried to run nmcli, was perfect. It contains your shell prompt (which tells us your username and hostname and current working directory), the command you ran, and its output. Hell, we even learned you're in a bash login shell, which is not immediately relevant, but is a nice detail to have. What we need is more of that. ls -ld /etc/network/interfaces root@mkspi:/etc# ls -ld /etc/network/interfaces -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 106 Jul 24 19:10 /etc/network/interfaces The rest of the files mentioned here have an mtime about a day later but 7 months newer than the actual time it has ATM, date Tue 03 Jan 2023 06:44:56 AM PST would be an excellent starting point. It would tell us whether your /e/n/i is a regular file or a symbolic link. If it's a regular file, we would get the last modified time, so we'd know *when* it was altered, if your system clock is accurate (which it might not be, given the thread's original subject). The clock is apparently restarted from midnight 12/1/2022 at every reboot. And I don't know if the rockchip64 has a clock. Most of the pi's don't. Since this is 12/1/2023, saying it about a year out of date is a pretty accurate statement. The mtime might not be useful to us, but it might be more useful to *you*, as you might know what time the system clock had the last time you ran that 'kiauh' script or whatever it was. Maybe that's what undoes your changes? If it turns out the modification took place in the wee hours of the morning, then it's more likely a cron job or systemd timer kicks off the process that undoes the changes. This overwrite was done that way as soon as I could login at the old address with ssh so I have to say it was done by network start time in the bootup from a 10 second power down. If /e/n/i turns out to be a symbolic link on your system, then its target may give us some hints about which program is messing with it. . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 12/1/23 13:27, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 07:30:35AM +, Andy Smith wrote: Hello, On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 10:24:35PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: Gene, Please do us *all* a favour to try and help you. Write us out a list of all your machines - and if a printer has an embedded SBC, it's a machine in this context - and the OS and versions they are running. List the functions you want each to have. As others have noted, it's REALLY hard to work out what you're doing. If machines and printers expect DHCP, then you're going to have to amend files. Do back up the files you change. 1. There is nothing in Debian that ever overwrites the /etc/network/interfaces file. But you aren't running Debian on this machine, so we are all having difficulty helping you. Because this is DEBIAN-user. I'm well aware of that Andy, but TBH, this list may be the deepest pool of knowledgeable people on the planet, most of my machines are running debian. Those that are running buster have been stuck as the switch to python 3 with bullseye broke linuxcnc. Thats now been fixed and has been for a while but I've had my own projects that took priority. There will not be any spinning rust here when I do update to bookworm or trixie. As ever, our collective expertise here is primarily Debian - we have no clue what a derived distribution may or may not do. There is also an overtone of NIH here. These programs are tools and one does his (or her) best thinking well outside the box at times. 2. All you've described is a line in a file which says, "Network is managed by NetworkManager". There is NO indication WHICH piece of software put that line there, it really could be anything. Because you aren't running Debian. Since NetworkManager can be set up to run arbitrary commands, it certainly COULD be YOUR setup of NetworkManager. Or something else entirely different. It's nothing in Debian, though. Then you are incompatible with software you are trying to run. Your options: - do not allow scripts coming with klipper or its installer to touch network configuration They never have, they just use it. And I've used up my patience in explaining that and being mostly ignored. - setup a DHCP server in your network and provide to 3d wizards environment they expect. "Su and say" is not great: running third party scripts on non-Debian systems and you get to keep both pieces unless you undersand what kiauh and Klipper are doing, be careful. Again, Max, its your way or the hiway. I'd be willing to guess that my network experience goes back at least a decade before your first class in cs 101. /etc/hosts files worked in 1990 then as now, we just have to get the dhcp crap out of the way. And you and your insistence on using dhcp which has never given me a stable address are definitely NOT helping. This like some sort of farce. You have an operating system hard-coded to use DHCP, but you won't use DHCP, so it doesn't work. You can't work out how to make it not want DHCP; you won't ask the people who made it how; instead you ask us completely uninvolved folks how to do it. When we tell you to configure it for static networking you say you can't because it wants DHCP. When we say use DHCP then, you say, "oh I see it's your way or the hiway, I'll have you know I was crafting IP packets from raw bean sprouts before you kids ever drew breath!" So would I be correct in saying that you want US to work out how to do this thing in software we don't use and that's off-topic here, and that's the only answer you'll accept? Or have I misunderstood and there is some other direction you would like to go with this? Thanks, Andy It does seem to be a problem on this list that we can't always get clear explanations of what has *actually* been done. Andy That list of machines is long Andy, and possibly boring. 1. The 2nd machine I converted, affectionately known as tlm.coyote.den, ( The Little Monster ), a 7x12 lathe running buster with a real time kernel and linuxcnc, all uptdate. uname -a= Linux TLM 4.19.0-25-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.289-2 (2023-08-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux Running on an off-lease Dell Optiplex computer. 2. A 4 axis mill sold by grizzly as the G0704 running on another off-lease Dell, named go704, using an uptodate buster, uname -a= Linux GO704 4.19.0-25-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.289-2 (2023-08-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux also using linuxcnc. 3. Another 4 axis gantry style mill sold as the 6040, also running buster with a rt kernel and linuxcnc on another off-lease Dell. uname -a= Linux sixty40 4.19.0-25-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.289-2 (2023-08-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux 4. Another lathe, a bigger Sheldon from the mid WW-II time, running on a raspberry pi 4b, bookworm, uname -a= Linux rpi4.coyote.den 6.1.54-rt15 #1 SMP PREEMPT_RT Wed Sep 20 20:36:44 AEST 2023 aarch64 GNU/Linux and linuxcnc=LinuxCNC/AXIS
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Hello, On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 11:21:05PM +0700, Max Nikulin wrote: > On 30/11/2023 23:12, Andy Smith wrote: > > Unless you have a dedicated time source (e.g. GPS receiver, atomic > > decay source, …) > > A nitpick. I am puzzled by the word "decay" in this context. Electron > transition between energy states in atomic clocks is not decay. I'm sure you're right; I don't really know anything about atomic clocks other than that they exist. > As to a GPS receiver, it should be doable and 169.254.x.y addresses will not > be an issue any more. Sure, all of these things are readily available to buy online and compatible with Linux. It's just so far down the list of what Gene should probably try first that it's kind of comical to have the conversation, though! The ntppool.org forum is a good place for amateur builders of "real" clocks attached to Linux/BSD. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 02:24:20PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > > root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli > > > -bash: nmcli: command not found > I do not know the mechanism by which my addition and deletions were done > during boot, I had added the correct data to put eth0 at 192.168.71.100 in > /e/n/i, and had deleted the line saying it was managed by networkmanager. > The evidence I have is that the original file was restored, has only lo and > the line giving credit to networkmanager was restored, my additions were > gone. Based on the evidence I can see, what else am I supposed to think? What you showed us above, where you tried to run nmcli, was perfect. It contains your shell prompt (which tells us your username and hostname and current working directory), the command you ran, and its output. Hell, we even learned you're in a bash login shell, which is not immediately relevant, but is a nice detail to have. What we need is more of that. ls -ld /etc/network/interfaces would be an excellent starting point. It would tell us whether your /e/n/i is a regular file or a symbolic link. If it's a regular file, we would get the last modified time, so we'd know *when* it was altered, if your system clock is accurate (which it might not be, given the thread's original subject). The mtime might not be useful to us, but it might be more useful to *you*, as you might know what time the system clock had the last time you ran that 'kiauh' script or whatever it was. Maybe that's what undoes your changes? If it turns out the modification took place in the wee hours of the morning, then it's more likely a cron job or systemd timer kicks off the process that undoes the changes. If /e/n/i turns out to be a symbolic link on your system, then its target may give us some hints about which program is messing with it.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
tomas writes: > Oh, oh... my first "Internet" (not in the sense of IP, obviously!) > connection was via UUCP. Likewise. -- John Hasler ihnp4!stolaf!bungia!foundln!john j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 12/1/23 10:27, Max Nikulin wrote: On 01/12/2023 17:42, gene heskett wrote: On 11/30/23 23:18, Max Nikulin wrote: On 01/12/2023 10:24, gene heskett wrote: Then, please, explain clearly what is "networkmangler", what is "/e/n/i", and what particular evidences you have that namely "networkmangler" overwrites "/e/n/i". =NetworkManager overwrites /etc/network/interfaces. Sheesh, part of the "slang-guage" for decades. MetworkManager has well earned that alias. I have made it a habit to remove the x attribute of that headache. I asked it because earlier you posted root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli -bash: nmcli: command not found so I have to repeat it. You *do* *not* have NetworkManager installed hence it can not overwrite files. What particular *evidences* do you have that namely NetworkManager overwrites /etc/network/interfaces? I am not interested in you *speculations*. In a previous episode you blamed NetworkManager in breaking of /etc/resolv.conf. Actually it was you who put incorrect info into NetworkManager configuration: https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/zt-gj6fkycbnz...@wooledge.org I do not know the mechanism by which my addition and deletions were done during boot, I had added the correct data to put eth0 at 192.168.71.100 in /e/n/i, and had deleted the line saying it was managed by networkmanager. The evidence I have is that the original file was restored, has only lo and the line giving credit to networkmanager was restored, my additions were gone. Based on the evidence I can see, what else am I supposed to think? Maybe something in armbian-config overwrote it. IDK, but thats the clues I have. But I have NOT found ambian-config yet. . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 04:55:01PM -, Curt wrote: > On 2023-12-01, John Hasler wrote: > > > > BTW my network experience goes back to bang paths. I'm currently using > > both hosts files and DHCP. > > In addition to legacy use, in 2021 new and innovative UUCP uses are > growing [...] Oh, oh... my first "Internet" (not in the sense of IP, obviously!) connection was via UUCP. Mail and Usenet. 14.4K modem. Ftpmail to "download" stuff. Times, those. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 12/1/23 08:42, Dan Purgert wrote: On Dec 01, 2023, gene heskett wrote: [lotsa snipping ... ] You claim I don't have to do anything to that printer machine, so I installed the ICC server here. I have done zip to the dhcpd.conf which looks as it it is fully disabled. Assuming I want a pool of 16 addresses, say from 192.168.71.100 to 192.168.71.115, what do I uncomment and fill in, in dhcpd.conf? Sent you a mail off-list with greater detail (hopefully it'll get through). Came in fine, than you Dan. Simple approach --> look for the stanza beginning "subnet". It should already be uncommented (as I recall), and probably setup for the "pretty standard default RFC1919 range" of 192.168.1.0/24. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 12/1/23 08:25, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 08:20:57AM -0500, gene heskett wrote: You claim I don't have to do anything to that printer machine, so I installed the ICC server here. I have done zip to the dhcpd.conf which looks as it it is fully disabled. Assuming I want a pool of 16 addresses, say from 192.168.71.100 to 192.168.71.115, what do I uncomment and fill in, in dhcpd.conf? If I'm going to have to do this, I want it done the approved way. I want the server to only respond to the MAC address of that printer, no response to any other MAC that might come calling. The pool is for "anyone who comes calling". Your reserved addresses should be outside the pool. Good to know, thanks Greg. . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 07:30:35AM +, Andy Smith wrote: > Hello, > > On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 10:24:35PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > Gene, Please do us *all* a favour to try and help you. Write us out a list of all your machines - and if a printer has an embedded SBC, it's a machine in this context - and the OS and versions they are running. List the functions you want each to have. As others have noted, it's REALLY hard to work out what you're doing. If machines and printers expect DHCP, then you're going to have to amend files. Do back up the files you change. > 1. There is nothing in Debian that ever overwrites the >/etc/network/interfaces file. But you aren't running Debian on >this machine, so we are all having difficulty helping you. >Because this is DEBIAN-user. > As ever, our collective expertise here is primarily Debian - we have no clue what a derived distribution may or may not do. > 2. All you've described is a line in a file which says, "Network is >managed by NetworkManager". There is NO indication WHICH piece of >software put that line there, it really could be anything. >Because you aren't running Debian. Since NetworkManager can be >set up to run arbitrary commands, it certainly COULD be YOUR >setup of NetworkManager. Or something else entirely different. >It's nothing in Debian, though. > > > > Then you are incompatible with software you are trying to run. Your > > > options: > > > - do not allow scripts coming with klipper or its installer to touch > > > network configuration > > > - setup a DHCP server in your network and provide to 3d wizards > > > environment they expect. > > > "Su and say" is not great: running third party scripts on non-Debian systems and you get to keep both pieces unless you undersand what kiauh and Klipper are doing, be careful. > > Again, Max, its your way or the hiway. I'd be willing to guess that my > > network experience goes back at least a decade before your first class in cs > > 101. /etc/hosts files worked in 1990 then as now, we just have to get the > > dhcp crap out of the way. And you and your insistence on using dhcp which > > has never given me a stable address are definitely NOT helping. > > This like some sort of farce. > > You have an operating system hard-coded to use DHCP, but you won't > use DHCP, so it doesn't work. You can't work out how to make it not > want DHCP; you won't ask the people who made it how; instead you ask > us completely uninvolved folks how to do it. When we tell you to > configure it for static networking you say you can't because it > wants DHCP. When we say use DHCP then, you say, "oh I see it's your > way or the hiway, I'll have you know I was crafting IP packets from > raw bean sprouts before you kids ever drew breath!" > > So would I be correct in saying that you want US to work out how to > do this thing in software we don't use and that's off-topic here, > and that's the only answer you'll accept? > > Or have I misunderstood and there is some other direction you would > like to go with this? > > Thanks, > Andy > It does seem to be a problem on this list that we can't always get clear explanations of what has *actually* been done. Andy >
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 2023-12-01, John Hasler wrote: > > BTW my network experience goes back to bang paths. I'm currently using > both hosts files and DHCP. In addition to legacy use, in 2021 new and innovative UUCP uses are growing, especially for telecommunications in the HF band, for example, for communities in the Amazon rainforest for email exchange and other uses. A patch to Ian's UUCP was contributed to UUCP Debian Linux package[17] to adapt for the HERMES (High-Frequency Emergency and Rural Multimedia Exchange System) project, which provides UUCP HF connectivity.[18] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP It's experiencing a comeback, it seems!
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 30/11/2023 23:12, Andy Smith wrote: Unless you have a dedicated time source (e.g. GPS receiver, atomic decay source, …) A nitpick. I am puzzled by the word "decay" in this context. Electron transition between energy states in atomic clocks is not decay. Nuclear decay is hardly related to clocks as well. Observation of photon frequency change due to propagation in gravitational field of the Earth was a really impressive experiment. However radioactive decay was just a means to get excited nuclei. Emission and absorption of gamma rays is still a transition between energy states, not a decay. Anyway I am unaware of *clocks* based on Mössbauer effect. Despite extreme precision in respect to frequency change, difficulties with implementation make it impractical. As to a GPS receiver, it should be doable and 169.254.x.y addresses will not be an issue any more. Be careful with cables when connecting it however: https://www.wired.com/2012/02/neutrinos-faulty-cable/
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 01/12/2023 17:42, gene heskett wrote: On 11/30/23 23:18, Max Nikulin wrote: On 01/12/2023 10:24, gene heskett wrote: Then, please, explain clearly what is "networkmangler", what is "/e/n/i", and what particular evidences you have that namely "networkmangler" overwrites "/e/n/i". =NetworkManager overwrites /etc/network/interfaces. Sheesh, part of the "slang-guage" for decades. MetworkManager has well earned that alias. I have made it a habit to remove the x attribute of that headache. I asked it because earlier you posted root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli -bash: nmcli: command not found so I have to repeat it. You *do* *not* have NetworkManager installed hence it can not overwrite files. What particular *evidences* do you have that namely NetworkManager overwrites /etc/network/interfaces? I am not interested in you *speculations*. In a previous episode you blamed NetworkManager in breaking of /etc/resolv.conf. Actually it was you who put incorrect info into NetworkManager configuration: https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/zt-gj6fkycbnz...@wooledge.org
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Dec 01, 2023, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 08:20:57AM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> > You claim I don't have to do anything to that printer machine, so I
> > installed the ICC server here. I have done zip to the dhcpd.conf which looks
> > as it it is fully disabled. Assuming I want a pool of 16 addresses, say from
> > 192.168.71.100 to 192.168.71.115, what do I uncomment and fill in, in
> > dhcpd.conf?
> >
> > If I'm going to have to do this, I want it done the approved way.
> >
> > I want the server to only respond to the MAC address of that printer, no
> > response to any other MAC that might come calling.
>
> The pool is for "anyone who comes calling".
>
> Your reserved addresses should be outside the pool.
At one time (or I'm just conflating isc-dhcp-server with some other
dhcp server option), it was required that a host's "fixed-address" was
within the defined range ("address pool"). Looking at a manpage dated
2021 (or well at least /usr/share/man/man8/dhcpd.8.gz is dated 2021), it
doesn't specify one way or the other.
It does, however, note that if you do set a host's fixed-address that
falls in the range, it just gets skipped when a client that doesn't
match the defined host-identifier (e.g. MAC Address) is requesting an
IP.
--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Dec 01, 2023, gene heskett wrote: > [lotsa snipping ... ] > > You claim I don't have to do anything to that printer machine, so I > installed the ICC server here. I have done zip to the dhcpd.conf which > looks as it it is fully disabled. Assuming I want a pool of 16 > addresses, say from 192.168.71.100 to 192.168.71.115, what do I > uncomment and fill in, in dhcpd.conf? Sent you a mail off-list with greater detail (hopefully it'll get through). Simple approach --> look for the stanza beginning "subnet". It should already be uncommented (as I recall), and probably setup for the "pretty standard default RFC1919 range" of 192.168.1.0/24. -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 08:20:57AM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > You claim I don't have to do anything to that printer machine, so I > installed the ICC server here. I have done zip to the dhcpd.conf which looks > as it it is fully disabled. Assuming I want a pool of 16 addresses, say from > 192.168.71.100 to 192.168.71.115, what do I uncomment and fill in, in > dhcpd.conf? > > If I'm going to have to do this, I want it done the approved way. > > I want the server to only respond to the MAC address of that printer, no > response to any other MAC that might come calling. The pool is for "anyone who comes calling". Your reserved addresses should be outside the pool.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 12/1/23 05:59, gene heskett wrote:
On 12/1/23 05:41, Dan Purgert wrote:
On Nov 30, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
On 11/30/23 22:07, John Hasler wrote:
Gene writes:
let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT
have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp.
I'm sure it's running dhclient. do
ls /etc/dhcp
and
ps ax | grep dhc
You don't need to do anything on that machine. Just install a dhcp
server somewhere on your network (on the router is conventional) and it
will give that machine an ip number.
At risk of repeating myself forever, I don't need an unstable address, I
don't want whatever the heck is left in the pool. Hosts files do
that, dhcp
doesn't. It just hands out the next number in the pool. hosts files are
static. A forveer lease.
DHCP will only hand out the "next" ('unstable') address to a host that
currently has no valid lease AND does not have a reservation set on the
DHCP server. Reservations are based on host MAC address.
Any host that has a valid lease will renew that lease indefinitely, at
lease half-life (and if the DHCP server happens to be missing at
half-life, retry at 7/8ths ).
Assuming I install a dhcp SERVER on this machine, how do I edit the
client.conf on that machine to query this one?, and how to I enable this
"reservation" on this SERVER so it hands out a stable address ONLY if
the reservation matches? Point me at the docs please and I'll go away.
You claim I don't have to do anything to that printer machine, so I
installed the ICC server here. I have done zip to the dhcpd.conf which
looks as it it is fully disabled. Assuming I want a pool of 16
addresses, say from 192.168.71.100 to 192.168.71.115, what do I
uncomment and fill in, in dhcpd.conf?
If I'm going to have to do this, I want it done the approved way.
I want the server to only respond to the MAC address of that printer, no
response to any other MAC that might come calling.
Thanks all.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Dec 01, 2023, gene heskett wrote: > On 11/30/23 23:18, Max Nikulin wrote: > > [...] > > What I see in your messages are false claims, e.g. that DHCP addresses > > are unstable. DHCP servers *may* be configured to assign fixed addresses > > to particular clients. > > > My ISP does that, so my exterior net address has been stable for over a > decade, but I've tried it 2-3 times in the 2000's and got unstable > addresses from the distro versions of dhcp every time. Your router just renews its lease within the renewal window. If you had no power for a week, then your router would lose its lease, and the IP address would change. That is -- no, your ISP does not reserve your IP address at all. Likewise, a Debian box running isc-dhcp-server (or any of the other myriad of options) will hand out the same address to the same machine forever, provided that machine asks to renew before the lease expires. Note that if we're talking about devices that leave your network, this somewhat goes out the window; because if they happened to join a remote network that happens to share the same subnet, AND that network tells them to use a different IP address (e.g. home was 192.168.1.100, starbucks told your laptop '100' wasn't available), then the laptop MAY request the IP address Starbucks gave when you get back home. -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Dec 01, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> On 12/1/23 05:41, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > On Nov 30, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 11/30/23 22:07, John Hasler wrote:
> > > > Gene writes:
> > > > > let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT
> > > > > have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp.
> > > >
> > > > I'm sure it's running dhclient. do
> > > >
> > > > ls /etc/dhcp
> > > >
> > > > and
> > > >
> > > > ps ax | grep dhc
> > > >
> > > > You don't need to do anything on that machine. Just install a dhcp
> > > > server somewhere on your network (on the router is conventional) and it
> > > > will give that machine an ip number.
> > >
> > > At risk of repeating myself forever, I don't need an unstable address, I
> > > don't want whatever the heck is left in the pool. Hosts files do that,
> > > dhcp
> > > doesn't. It just hands out the next number in the pool. hosts files are
> > > static. A forveer lease.
> >
> > DHCP will only hand out the "next" ('unstable') address to a host that
> > currently has no valid lease AND does not have a reservation set on the
> > DHCP server. Reservations are based on host MAC address.
> >
> > Any host that has a valid lease will renew that lease indefinitely, at
> > lease half-life (and if the DHCP server happens to be missing at
> > half-life, retry at 7/8ths ).
>
> Assuming I install a dhcp SERVER on this machine, how do I edit the
> client.conf on that machine to query this one?, and how to I enable this
> "reservation" on this SERVER so it hands out a stable address ONLY if the
> reservation matches? Point me at the docs please and I'll go away.
You don't tell the client anything. DHCP is initiated by a broadcast
from a client looking for an IP address.
Reservation syntax depends on which DHCP server you're using. If it's
isc-dhcp-server (predecessor to kea; though I've not yet migrated to
kea), then, in the 'subnet' directive, you add a "host" directive.
The isc-dhcp-server example config file (and html manual) cover the
syntax in greater detail, but here's a short example:
subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
range 192.168.1.100 192.168.1.199;
[... DNS, default gateway, etc ...]
host thePrinter {
hardware ethernet 00:12:34:56:78:9A;
fixed-address 192.168.1.120;
}
}
--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 12/1/23 05:41, Dan Purgert wrote:
On Nov 30, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
On 11/30/23 22:07, John Hasler wrote:
Gene writes:
let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT
have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp.
I'm sure it's running dhclient. do
ls /etc/dhcp
and
ps ax | grep dhc
You don't need to do anything on that machine. Just install a dhcp
server somewhere on your network (on the router is conventional) and it
will give that machine an ip number.
At risk of repeating myself forever, I don't need an unstable address, I
don't want whatever the heck is left in the pool. Hosts files do that, dhcp
doesn't. It just hands out the next number in the pool. hosts files are
static. A forveer lease.
DHCP will only hand out the "next" ('unstable') address to a host that
currently has no valid lease AND does not have a reservation set on the
DHCP server. Reservations are based on host MAC address.
Any host that has a valid lease will renew that lease indefinitely, at
lease half-life (and if the DHCP server happens to be missing at
half-life, retry at 7/8ths ).
Assuming I install a dhcp SERVER on this machine, how do I edit the
client.conf on that machine to query this one?, and how to I enable this
"reservation" on this SERVER so it hands out a stable address ONLY if
the reservation matches? Point me at the docs please and I'll go away.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/30/23 23:18, Max Nikulin wrote: On 01/12/2023 10:24, gene heskett wrote: If you would bother to read what I posted, you would have seen that networkmangler claimed credit for that overwritten /e/n/i file. Then, please, explain clearly what is "networkmangler", what is "/e/n/i", and what particular evidences you have that namely "networkmangler" overwrites "/e/n/i". =NetworkManager overwrites /etc/network/interfaces. Sheesh, part of the "slang-guage" for decades. MetworkManager has well earned that alias. I have made it a habit to remove the x attribute of that headache. Funny thing, even as far back as wheezy, absolutely nothing had the chutzpah to log it wasn't executable. Its gradually been made remove-able but early on removing it tore down the system to where it could only be re-installed from the install cd's. It was a solution to a problem we never had unless you were carrying a lappy into ever library on the planet. I am not familiar with QIDI, kiauth.sh, and similar 3rd party stuff. What I see in your messages are false claims, e.g. that DHCP addresses are unstable. DHCP servers *may* be configured to assign fixed addresses to particular clients. My ISP does that, so my exterior net address has been stable for over a decade, but I've tried it 2-3 times in the 2000's and got unstable addresses from the distro versions of dhcp every time. My ISP gives the router a stable address because its linked to the MAC of the router, so while I have 2 interchangeable routers, the backup has cloned its MAC to match, so my net cost to run a web page on this machine is the namecheap 5 year fee of $20 the last time I paid it. But the whole, several gigabyte page was lost a year ago when two quite new, 2T seagates went tits down in the night within 2 days of each other, one was my boot drive, the other vtapes from Amanda. That was the last straw and today 8 machines here have only 2 spinning rust drives remaining. They will be replaced with SSD's when I bring those buster machines up to bookworm or Trixie. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Nov 30, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/30/23 22:07, John Hasler wrote:
> > Gene writes:
> > > let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT
> > > have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp.
> >
> > I'm sure it's running dhclient. do
> >
> > ls /etc/dhcp
> >
> > and
> >
> > ps ax | grep dhc
> >
> > You don't need to do anything on that machine. Just install a dhcp
> > server somewhere on your network (on the router is conventional) and it
> > will give that machine an ip number.
>
> At risk of repeating myself forever, I don't need an unstable address, I
> don't want whatever the heck is left in the pool. Hosts files do that, dhcp
> doesn't. It just hands out the next number in the pool. hosts files are
> static. A forveer lease.
DHCP will only hand out the "next" ('unstable') address to a host that
currently has no valid lease AND does not have a reservation set on the
DHCP server. Reservations are based on host MAC address.
Any host that has a valid lease will renew that lease indefinitely, at
lease half-life (and if the DHCP server happens to be missing at
half-life, retry at 7/8ths ).
--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/30/23 23:04, John Hasler wrote: Klipper runs on OctoPi, a customized Linux distribution. As installed it is set up to use DHCP. You can either install a DHCP server on your network and it will just work, or you can figure out how to modify OctoPi to do things your way. You seem to be banging your head against a wall trying to do the latter. klipper runs on anything armhf or better. OctoPi isn't even on the property here. It only has one address, USB-like from the output of /dev/serial/by-id. Not supported by every controller card maker, but if present, that is a unique string derived from chipid which the stm family of micro's supports. klipper is actually two parts, the controller is reflashed, and the rest of it runs on the pi clone. Mostly python, the housekeeping might run on wintel for all I know. BTW my network experience goes back to bang paths. I'm currently using both hosts files and DHCP. I'm not surprised John, I've seen your name here and there for decades. OT: We had some of the bang paths at WDTV, where I was the CE from 1984 to mid 2002. Then we bought a block of 16 addresses. We had a web page online to dialup folks, served by am amiga, writing the code in ARexx long before PHP came out, months before any other tv station in the country had a web page. I wrote much of that ARexx. A do anything language that had hooks into everything in amigados. Bill Hawes, who wrote ARexx was stiffed by commode door, making less than 500$ from sales of the language book he sold himself. We were upset that a very talented coder was screwed so badly and I don't think he ever wrote another byte for free, but he had an empty account on vger for a long time. One thing amigados never had was a cron, so Jim Hines and I wrote EZCron which we published on an amigados list. Instant world wide use. Fun and games and fond memories from 30+ years ago. /OT: Take care and stay well John. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Hello, On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 10:24:35PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On 11/30/23 21:37, Max Nikulin wrote: > > So to install "klipper is just a program" you run some scripts that > > overwrite /etc/network/interfaces and you blame NetworkManager and some > > other stuff instead. > If you would bother to read what I posted, you would have seen that > networkmangler claimed credit for that overwritten /e/n/i file. 1. There is nothing in Debian that ever overwrites the /etc/network/interfaces file. But you aren't running Debian on this machine, so we are all having difficulty helping you. Because this is DEBIAN-user. 2. All you've described is a line in a file which says, "Network is managed by NetworkManager". There is NO indication WHICH piece of software put that line there, it really could be anything. Because you aren't running Debian. Since NetworkManager can be set up to run arbitrary commands, it certainly COULD be YOUR setup of NetworkManager. Or something else entirely different. It's nothing in Debian, though. > > Then you are incompatible with software you are trying to run. Your > > options: > > - do not allow scripts coming with klipper or its installer to touch > > network configuration > > - setup a DHCP server in your network and provide to 3d wizards > > environment they expect. > > > Again, Max, its your way or the hiway. I'd be willing to guess that my > network experience goes back at least a decade before your first class in cs > 101. /etc/hosts files worked in 1990 then as now, we just have to get the > dhcp crap out of the way. And you and your insistence on using dhcp which > has never given me a stable address are definitely NOT helping. This like some sort of farce. You have an operating system hard-coded to use DHCP, but you won't use DHCP, so it doesn't work. You can't work out how to make it not want DHCP; you won't ask the people who made it how; instead you ask us completely uninvolved folks how to do it. When we tell you to configure it for static networking you say you can't because it wants DHCP. When we say use DHCP then, you say, "oh I see it's your way or the hiway, I'll have you know I was crafting IP packets from raw bean sprouts before you kids ever drew breath!" So would I be correct in saying that you want US to work out how to do this thing in software we don't use and that's off-topic here, and that's the only answer you'll accept? Or have I misunderstood and there is some other direction you would like to go with this? Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Thu 30 Nov 2023 at 22:30:12 (-0500), gene heskett wrote: > On 11/30/23 22:07, John Hasler wrote: > > Gene writes: > > > let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT > > > have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp. > > > > I'm sure it's running dhclient. do > > > > ls /etc/dhcp > > > > and > > > > ps ax | grep dhc > > > > You don't need to do anything on that machine. Just install a dhcp > > server somewhere on your network (on the router is conventional) and it > > will give that machine an ip number. > > At risk of repeating myself forever, I don't need an unstable address, > I don't want whatever the heck is left in the pool. Hosts files do > that, dhcp doesn't. It just hands out the next number in the pool. > hosts files are static. A forveer lease. What happened to your intentions in: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg01083.html It's long past 20:00. Cheers, David.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 01/12/2023 10:24, gene heskett wrote: If you would bother to read what I posted, you would have seen that networkmangler claimed credit for that overwritten /e/n/i file. Then, please, explain clearly what is "networkmangler", what is "/e/n/i", and what particular evidences you have that namely "networkmangler" overwrites "/e/n/i". I am not familiar with QIDI, kiauth.sh, and similar 3rd party stuff. What I see in your messages are false claims, e.g. that DHCP addresses are unstable. DHCP servers *may* be configured to assign fixed addresses to particular clients.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Gene writes: > At risk of repeating myself forever, I don't need an unstable address, > I don't want whatever the heck is left in the pool. Hosts files do > that, dhcp doesn't. It just hands out the next number in the pool. > hosts files are static. A forveer lease. You're doing things the hard way, but whatever. In any case that Klipper box is not running Debian: your are on the wrong forum. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Klipper runs on OctoPi, a customized Linux distribution. As installed it is set up to use DHCP. You can either install a DHCP server on your network and it will just work, or you can figure out how to modify OctoPi to do things your way. You seem to be banging your head against a wall trying to do the latter. BTW my network experience goes back to bang paths. I'm currently using both hosts files and DHCP. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/30/23 22:07, John Hasler wrote: Gene writes: let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp. I'm sure it's running dhclient. do ls /etc/dhcp and ps ax | grep dhc You don't need to do anything on that machine. Just install a dhcp server somewhere on your network (on the router is conventional) and it will give that machine an ip number. At risk of repeating myself forever, I don't need an unstable address, I don't want whatever the heck is left in the pool. Hosts files do that, dhcp doesn't. It just hands out the next number in the pool. hosts files are static. A forveer lease. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/30/23 21:37, Max Nikulin wrote: On 01/12/2023 01:44, gene heskett wrote: /e/n/i waa replaced, and nothing in an ip a or ip r was changed. [...] On 11/30/23 07:31, Max Nikulin wrote: May it be that klipper-related "optimizers" add some script? The classic NIH syndrome, advertized even. klipper runs fine on several other bananapi-m5 here, w/o any special treatment [...] root@mkspi:/# journalctl -b /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-NETWORK-NOT-FOUND Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] So to install "klipper is just a program" you run some scripts that overwrite /etc/network/interfaces and you blame NetworkManager and some other stuff instead. If you would bother to read what I posted, you would have seen that networkmangler claimed credit for that overwritten /e/n/i file. Good luck in your attempts to find pieces of your "3d" network configurator in cron tasks, all kinds of init scripts, and systemd units. It is completely unrelated to Debian. which requires it get rid of the 169.254.nnn.nnn its using now. This case 169.254.x.y IPv4LL addresses is a manifestation of another trouble. These addresses can coexist with 192.168.x.y addresses. Do not concentrate on link local addresses. I don't want or need a dhcp-server. Then you are incompatible with software you are trying to run. Your options: - do not allow scripts coming with klipper or its installer to touch network configuration - setup a DHCP server in your network and provide to 3d wizards environment they expect. Again, Max, its your way or the hiway. I'd be willing to guess that my network experience goes back at least a decade before your first class in cs 101. /etc/hosts files worked in 1990 then as now, we just have to get the dhcp crap out of the way. And you and your insistence on using dhcp which has never given me a stable address are definitely NOT helping. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 08:33:47PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > This machine has a working ntp On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 09:05:17PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT have > dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp. OK, screw it. I give up. I cannot figure out which computer you're talking about in any given sentence. You seems to switch computers every email, possibly more than once per email. If you're having a problem with your "printer", then THAT is the computer you should be talking about! But now you're using phrases like "this machine" and referring to some OTHER host that isn't the printer... GAAHH! Why would you talk about OTHER computers when you have problems with THE PRINTER?! This is impossible to understand!
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Gene writes: > let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT > have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp. I'm sure it's running dhclient. do ls /etc/dhcp and ps ax | grep dhc You don't need to do anything on that machine. Just install a dhcp server somewhere on your network (on the router is conventional) and it will give that machine an ip number. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 01/12/2023 01:44, gene heskett wrote: /e/n/i waa replaced, and nothing in an ip a or ip r was changed. [...] On 11/30/23 07:31, Max Nikulin wrote: May it be that klipper-related "optimizers" add some script? klipper runs fine on several other bananapi-m5 here, w/o any special treatment [...] root@mkspi:/# journalctl -b /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-NETWORK-NOT-FOUND Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] So to install "klipper is just a program" you run some scripts that overwrite /etc/network/interfaces and you blame NetworkManager and some other stuff instead. Good luck in your attempts to find pieces of your "3d" network configurator in cron tasks, all kinds of init scripts, and systemd units. It is completely unrelated to Debian. which requires it get rid of the 169.254.nnn.nnn its using now. This case 169.254.x.y IPv4LL addresses is a manifestation of another trouble. These addresses can coexist with 192.168.x.y addresses. Do not concentrate on link local addresses. I don't want or need a dhcp-server. Then you are incompatible with software you are trying to run. Your options: - do not allow scripts coming with klipper or its installer to touch network configuration - setup a DHCP server in your network and provide to 3d wizards environment they expect.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/30/23 14:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 02:06:16PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
What I just found is /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf, which if you read it, contains
some examples at the bottom of it, such as:
--
#alias {
# interface "eth0";
# fixed-address 192.5.5.213;
# option subnet-mask 255.255.255.255;
#}
#lease {
# interface "eth0";
# fixed-address 192.33.137.200;
# medium "link0 link1";
# option host-name "andare.swiftmedia.com";
# option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
# option broadcast-address 192.33.137.255;
# option routers 192.33.137.250;
# option domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;
# renew 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
# rebind 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
# expire 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
#}
-
I have no idea what would happen if you uncommented these things on a
system that uses dhclient. There's a "LEASE DECLARATIONS" section in
dhclient.conf(5) that appears to discuss it, but I've never used it, and
I don't want to make statements based on an extremely brief skim of
the first paragraph.
However, now I'm even more confused. I thought your system had dhcpcd
installed and running. Why would it *also* have a configuration file
for dhclient? These are two completely different DHCP client packages.
I can't imagine why dhcpcd would read this file at all.
.
let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT
have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp. And apparently
does have networkmangler, so at present I have no way but sneakernet
with a usb key, to get updates of any kind to it, so until I do get it a
legit address I'm stuck using nano to edit what actually IS there. The
only screen is the printers lcd screen, probably run by KlipperScreen.
Its a rockchip board, so I expect if uncovered I'd find a couple open
usb ports to plug in a keyboard and mouse, and an hdmi socket to plug a
monitor into. If I brick the network, I'll probably have to do that.
But I'm a, out of table room, and b, would have to rig it for hoisting
to gt a bigger table under it. I have a worn out back and it weighs 80 lbs.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/30/23 13:06, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 04:12:48PM +, Andy Smith wrote: Once you've got your networking sorted out and you are setting up an NTP server, your next issue will be that one NTP server isn't enough: https://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/ntp-s-algo-real/#532-why-should-i-have-more-than-one-clock The reason for this is that if you have just one NTP server for your network, and it goes bad (tells the wrong time), no one will be able to tell. Well, you have to consider the actual goal. If the goal is for the printer to know the exact time, because it's going to print that time on legal documents, then your point is worth considering. But if the goal is simply to ensure that all the computers on the LAN share the *same* time, right or wrong, then having them all sync to the same, possibly drifting, time server is all that's needed. Also remember, this is just Gene's home network. It's not a major data center. A single NTP server for a home network sounds adequate to me. Ultimately it's Gene's choice to make. This machine has a working ntp, so it should be within a millisecond or so of Boulder CO if the debian "pool" references that src. The recalcitrant armbian running the rockchip card in the printer can access this machine for ping4 or ping6 purposes. It would be adequate if for timekeeping purposes if it referenced this machine. However its just as desirable to get it "online" with the rest of my machines, which requires it get rid of the 169.254.nnn.nnn its using now. I think I've found where to do it, but not right now, the printer is busy making me a mount to solar power a you've got mail alarm, with is presently using a special 12 volt battery, a 23A, every two weeks. My checking for ntp does not find anything on that card So preliminary: 1;install on this machine the whole ntpsec group. That removed the systemd/timesyncd utility 2:create the logging dir as spec'd in /etc/ntpsec/ntp.conf. Restart /etc/init.d/ntpsec, looks like its working. I'll let it simmer a day. 3: ntp.conf describes how to make a server but i'll have to find some man page for LetsEncrypt. Nut that means I'll have to talk to Igor and rsync their repo to get it to a place on this machine where that one can suck stuff from. df says my boot drive has /dev/sdb1 863983352 15834692 804187012 2% / used, so I ought to be able to do that. Either that, or (thinking outside the box) better yet make this machine into a NAT server to that machine as that would also enable the use of kiauh to keep the printer AND its OS updated. Is there a ready made package to do that NAT-ing? Or can the modernized iptables do that?. Thanks all. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
dhcpcd is a DHCP client with a remarkably poorly chosen name. DHCPCD(8)System Manager’s Manual DHCPCD(8) NAME dhcpcd — a DHCP client dhcpd is a DHCP server. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 14:13:22 -0500 Greg Wooledge wrote: > I thought your system had dhcpcd > installed and running. Why would it *also* have a configuration file > for dhclient? These are two completely different DHCP client > packages. I can't imagine why dhcpcd would read this file at all. dhcp*d* is the ISC DHCP server, not a client. man 8 dhcpd -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 02:06:16PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> What I just found is /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf, which if you read it, contains
> some examples at the bottom of it, such as:
> --
> #alias {
> # interface "eth0";
> # fixed-address 192.5.5.213;
> # option subnet-mask 255.255.255.255;
> #}
>
> #lease {
> # interface "eth0";
> # fixed-address 192.33.137.200;
> # medium "link0 link1";
> # option host-name "andare.swiftmedia.com";
> # option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
> # option broadcast-address 192.33.137.255;
> # option routers 192.33.137.250;
> # option domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;
> # renew 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
> # rebind 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
> # expire 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
> #}
> -
I have no idea what would happen if you uncommented these things on a
system that uses dhclient. There's a "LEASE DECLARATIONS" section in
dhclient.conf(5) that appears to discuss it, but I've never used it, and
I don't want to make statements based on an extremely brief skim of
the first paragraph.
However, now I'm even more confused. I thought your system had dhcpcd
installed and running. Why would it *also* have a configuration file
for dhclient? These are two completely different DHCP client packages.
I can't imagine why dhcpcd would read this file at all.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/30/23 09:14, John Hasler wrote:
Gene writes:
I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in
/etc/dhcpcd.conf?
You don't. That file tells the client how to get an ip (among other
things) from the server. The default configuration should work. You
assign static ips on the server when using dhcp. But why do you want to
do that?
I don't want or need a dhcp-server.
What I just found is /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf, which if you read it,
contains some examples at the bottom of it, such as:
--
#alias {
# interface "eth0";
# fixed-address 192.5.5.213;
# option subnet-mask 255.255.255.255;
#}
#lease {
# interface "eth0";
# fixed-address 192.33.137.200;
# medium "link0 link1";
# option host-name "andare.swiftmedia.com";
# option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
# option broadcast-address 192.33.137.255;
# option routers 192.33.137.250;
# option domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;
# renew 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
# rebind 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
# expire 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
#}
-
which looks a lot like it should work if there's no typu's. But I won't
putz with it till the present job is done around 20:00 tonight.
Thanks John.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/30/23 08:11, Greg Wooledge wrote: On 30/11/2023 17:15, gene heskett wrote: I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in /etc/dhcpcd.conf? This is already in /etc/hosts like this: You're confusing the DHCP server and the DHCP client. People have told you that you must either configure the static IP on the host itself, *or* set up a DHCP server. If you're going to set up a DHCP server, then after choosing a computer to act as the server, and after installing the DHCP server package on it, you would configure dhcpd.conf (in some directory) to define your dynamic address pool, and any reserved addresses for specific hosts. Note the file name: dhcpd.conf which is composed of these pieces: dhcpd -- DHCP server daemon .conf -- configuration file In the text cited above, you referred to dhcpcd.conf which is completely different file. That one is for one of the several different DHCP *client* packages. In your case, it's for the "dhcpcd" package, which is not used by default in Debian, but *is* used by default in some Debian derivatives. dhcpcd -- DHCP client daemon (from the "dhcpcd" package) .conf -- configuration file Now, the real goal here is that you want to configure a static IP address on this host. If this were Debian, the answer would simply be "edit /etc/network/interfaces, kill dhcpcd if it's running, ifdown eth0, ifup eth0" (not necessarily in that order, and with various safeguards in place). However, you seem to be running a "twice derivative" OS of some kind -- it's Armbian with some special Klipper management script installed which takes over glob-knows-what. It is armbian, klipper is just a program that runs on anything linux, maybe even winderz too but I wouldn't know, I don't allow winderz on the premises. I might use the hd for target practice. The number of people who know how to configure networking on a "Debian no wait it's Armbian no wait it's Klipper" host is probably quite small, and I'm not one of them. If you don't have instructions, then you may need to find a community of fellow Klipper users and ask them. Though I suspect the overwhelming majority of them use a DHCP server instead of static addressing on the host, you may get lucky and find one who does it your preferred way. I found another place to put it, but haven't tried it yet. Busy with another project, making a solar power supply for a mailbox ygm alarm. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/30/23 07:31, Max Nikulin wrote: On 30/11/2023 17:15, gene heskett wrote: On 11/29/23 23:52, Max Nikulin wrote: On 30/11/2023 11:07, gene heskett wrote: root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli -bash: nmcli: command not found --- However it did not work, and the file was replaced by one containing only lo by networkmangler on a powerdown reboot. Next??? What particular file has been replaced? You do not have NetworkManager installed /e/n/i waa replaced, and nothing in an ip a or ip r was changed. It was restored to: root@mkspi:/# cat /etc/network/interfaces source /etc/network/interfaces.d/* # Network is managed by Network manager<-this line I had removed auto lo iface lo inet loopback dpkg -S /usr/bin/nmcli network-manager: /usr/bin/nmcli Moreover in default configuration it does not touch /etc/network/interfaces. It just reads it do avoid managing of the same interfaces. May it be that klipper-related "optimizers" add some script? klipper runs fine on several other bananapi-m5 here, w/o any special treatment as lomg as /dev/serial/by-id is wotking, debian nroke it in buster and it will not be fixed again till trixie. Discord/klipper has patches for it. I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in /etc/dhcpcd.conf? This is already in /etc/hosts like this: Forget it for a while. You either configure static IP address or DHCP server on your router or on another host with properly configured network. For reference, this is what I put in /e/n/i": auto eth0 iface eth0 inet static address 192.168.71.100/24 gateway 192.168.71.1 dns-nameservers 192.168.71.1 I expect "dns-nameservers" may cause changes in /etc/resolv.conf if you mean it. Are address and gateway settings applied? ip address list ip route list Do you get any error in "journalctl -b" or in syslog files? . root@mkspi:/# journalctl -b -- Logs begin at Mon 2023-01-02 02:56:20 PST, end at Mon 2023-01-02 04:01:23 PST. -- Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-BSS-REMOVED 1289 50:27:a9:d2:aa:e3 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-SCAN-RESULTS Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 418 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 已获取到了扫描的结果 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: WPS-AP-AVAILABLE Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 439 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: Available WPS AP found in scan results. Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-NETWORK-NOT-FOUND Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-SCAN-STARTED Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-BSS-ADDED 1305 98:da:c4:98:b2:19 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-SCAN-RESULTS Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 418 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 已获取到了扫描的结果 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: WPS-AP-AVAILABLE Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 439 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: Available WPS AP found in scan results. Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-NETWORK-NOT-FOUND Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] /root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416 Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息: lines 1-36 Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 04:12:48PM +, Andy Smith wrote: > Once you've got your networking sorted out and you are setting up an > NTP server, your next issue will be that one NTP server isn't > enough: > > > https://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/ntp-s-algo-real/#532-why-should-i-have-more-than-one-clock > > The reason for this is that if you have just one NTP server for your > network, and it goes bad (tells the wrong time), no one will be able > to tell. Well, you have to consider the actual goal. If the goal is for the printer to know the exact time, because it's going to print that time on legal documents, then your point is worth considering. But if the goal is simply to ensure that all the computers on the LAN share the *same* time, right or wrong, then having them all sync to the same, possibly drifting, time server is all that's needed. Also remember, this is just Gene's home network. It's not a major data center. A single NTP server for a home network sounds adequate to me. Ultimately it's Gene's choice to make.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Hi Gene, On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:52:46PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On 11/29/23 13:20, John Hasler wrote: > > But first fix that address. > > How, John? QIDI is afraid of enabling full net access because it might > overwrite some of their special stuff. Right now its running armbian buster, > which is out of support. And surprise, kiauh.sh is installed, likely how > they set the printer up in the first place. Its just a bash script but its > magic! No one knows what any of this stuff is because it's NOT DEBIAN and this is DEBIAN-users. You should ask these questions on the support venues for whatever these things are, where you will get fewer answers that are specific to Debian. Once you've got your networking sorted out and you are setting up an NTP server, your next issue will be that one NTP server isn't enough: https://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/ntp-s-algo-real/#532-why-should-i-have-more-than-one-clock The reason for this is that if you have just one NTP server for your network, and it goes bad (tells the wrong time), no one will be able to tell. If you have two, clients will be able to tell that one of them has gone bad (or both!) but not which one of them. If you have at least three, then it is possible to determine when one of them is off. Unless you have a dedicated time source (e.g. GPS receiver, atomic decay source, …) then any NTP server you set up will not be significantly better than just using the public NTP pool as all Debian NTP clients are configured to do by default. So basically I would say there is no point in you trying to run an NTP server and you should just try to make sure that all your machines having working networking and run a working NTP client. If you DID want to run an NTP server on your network, all it would achieve is slightly reducing the amount of traffic you send over the Internet, however it would be entirely unsurprising for your local NTP clients to select the remote servers as being more accurate and send the packets over the Internet anyway. And since you need at least least three clocks defined in every NTP client, you can't avoid configuring at least two off-site servers. It may as well be all three (preferably more). But sort the networking out first. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 11:52:04 +0700 Max Nikulin wrote: > Charles suggests to enable DHCP server on your router and I support > him. A nitpick, if I may. Apparently not all commercial routers support static addressing via DHCP. I was suggesting Gene use the ISC DHCP server, which does not have to be on your router; any Unix or Linux machine will do. Indeed, if you use the failover capability (I do), at least one instance of it will not be on the router. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Gene writes: > I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in > /etc/dhcpcd.conf? You don't. That file tells the client how to get an ip (among other things) from the server. The default configuration should work. You assign static ips on the server when using dhcp. But why do you want to do that? -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: time question, as in ntp?
> On 30/11/2023 17:15, gene heskett wrote: > > I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in > > /etc/dhcpcd.conf? This is already in /etc/hosts like this: You're confusing the DHCP server and the DHCP client. People have told you that you must either configure the static IP on the host itself, *or* set up a DHCP server. If you're going to set up a DHCP server, then after choosing a computer to act as the server, and after installing the DHCP server package on it, you would configure dhcpd.conf (in some directory) to define your dynamic address pool, and any reserved addresses for specific hosts. Note the file name: dhcpd.conf which is composed of these pieces: dhcpd -- DHCP server daemon .conf -- configuration file In the text cited above, you referred to dhcpcd.conf which is completely different file. That one is for one of the several different DHCP *client* packages. In your case, it's for the "dhcpcd" package, which is not used by default in Debian, but *is* used by default in some Debian derivatives. dhcpcd -- DHCP client daemon (from the "dhcpcd" package) .conf -- configuration file Now, the real goal here is that you want to configure a static IP address on this host. If this were Debian, the answer would simply be "edit /etc/network/interfaces, kill dhcpcd if it's running, ifdown eth0, ifup eth0" (not necessarily in that order, and with various safeguards in place). However, you seem to be running a "twice derivative" OS of some kind -- it's Armbian with some special Klipper management script installed which takes over glob-knows-what. The number of people who know how to configure networking on a "Debian no wait it's Armbian no wait it's Klipper" host is probably quite small, and I'm not one of them. If you don't have instructions, then you may need to find a community of fellow Klipper users and ask them. Though I suspect the overwhelming majority of them use a DHCP server instead of static addressing on the host, you may get lucky and find one who does it your preferred way.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 30/11/2023 17:15, gene heskett wrote: On 11/29/23 23:52, Max Nikulin wrote: On 30/11/2023 11:07, gene heskett wrote: root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli -bash: nmcli: command not found --- However it did not work, and the file was replaced by one containing only lo by networkmangler on a powerdown reboot. Next??? What particular file has been replaced? You do not have NetworkManager installed dpkg -S /usr/bin/nmcli network-manager: /usr/bin/nmcli Moreover in default configuration it does not touch /etc/network/interfaces. It just reads it do avoid managing of the same interfaces. May it be that klipper-related "optimizers" add some script? I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in /etc/dhcpcd.conf? This is already in /etc/hosts like this: Forget it for a while. You either configure static IP address or DHCP server on your router or on another host with properly configured network. For reference, this is what I put in /e/n/i": auto eth0 iface eth0 inet static address 192.168.71.100/24 gateway 192.168.71.1 dns-nameservers 192.168.71.1 I expect "dns-nameservers" may cause changes in /etc/resolv.conf if you mean it. Are address and gateway settings applied? ip address list ip route list Do you get any error in "journalctl -b" or in syslog files?
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 09:39:04AM +, Bonno Bloksma wrote: > I never used the network manager as that is more work for me, I have no idea > how that works even. ;-) You and me both. > -=-=-=-=-=-=- > $ cat /etc/network/interfaces > # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system > # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5). > > source /etc/network/interfaces.d/* > > # The loopback network interface > auto lo > iface lo inet loopback > > # The primary network interface > allow-hotplug ens32 > iface ens32 inet static > address 172.16.208.19 > netmask 255.255.255.0 > gateway 172.16.208.1 > -=-=-=-=-=-=- Depending on what services your computer runs, you may wish to change "allow-hotplug ens32" to "auto ens32". The latter will cause certain services (e.g. NFS server) to wait until the network interface has been brought up before starting. As you have it now, most services will not wait. Of course, if everything is working as you have it, then "don't touch it" is a wise course. But you may want to make a mental note, in case a problem happens at some point in the future. The usual symptom is "Such-and-such doesn't start at boot time, but if I login and start it manually, it works fine. I checked and the service is enabled, but it fails."
RE: time question, as in ntp?
Hi, I am oldfashioned, I have been using Linux for over 20 years when we still had to compile our own kernels to support certain hardware. :-( I have always configured the network interface on my Linux machines via /etc/network/interfaces and not via DHCP. The reason for that is quite simple, most of my Linux machine ARE my DHCP servers. :-) I never used the network manager as that is more work for me, I have no idea how that works even. ;-) My interfaces file pretty much always looks something like this. I barely ever use the new option to use the /etc/network/interfaces.d/ path. -=-=-=-=-=-=- $ cat /etc/network/interfaces # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5). source /etc/network/interfaces.d/* # The loopback network interface auto lo iface lo inet loopback # The primary network interface allow-hotplug ens32 iface ens32 inet static address 172.16.208.19 netmask 255.255.255.0 gateway 172.16.208.1 -=-=-=-=-=-=- All other servers DO use DHCP for their config and get a static ip number via settings in the /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf file. That way I can centrally manage the ip network config in case something changes, like maybe the network mask when the number of devices grows beyond my initial estimate. That has happened twice in the past 20 years. For IPv6 configuration I still use the auto config from the router and not DHCPv6. In IPv6 they looked good at what was missing from IPv4 and was available in other protocols like IPX where you never did any configuration on the client. I have noticed that is the local dns server is properly configured everything works by default. Bonno Bloksma
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/29/23 21:40, Charles Curley wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:53:19 -0500
> > gene heskett wrote:
> >
> > > > A changing network is exactly what dhcp is for. With it you will
> > > > not need to do anything when you add a machine.
> > >
> > > Does it always lock the address to that MAC? ISTR a time long ago
> > > when it didn't.
> >
> > Normally DHCP does not lock a given IP address to a given MAC address.
> > However, you can do so on a per machine basis with the fixed-address
> > option. E.g:
> >
> > host hawk # new (2016) desktop
> > {
> > option host-name "hawk";
> > hardware ethernet 30:5a:3a:81:83:79;
> > fixed-address 192.168.100.6;
> > option domain-name-servers 192.168.100.30, 127.0.0.1; # chaffee,
> > localhost
> > ddns-hostname hawk;
> > }
> In what file do I place similar info to this for eth0?
You don't set it on a client, but the DHCP Server itself.
Specific network host (if Debian or a derivative) would be
/etc/network/interfaces.
--
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Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote: > On 11/29/23 20:20, John Hasler wrote: > > Gene writes: > > > I've been told that /etc/network/interfaces is not the "today way" to > > > do it. > > > > It works fine. > > > > > Then [dhcp is] something else I'll have to maintain as my network > > > grows, > > > > A changing network is exactly what dhcp is for. With it you will not > > need to do anything when you add a machine. > Does it always lock the address to that MAC? ISTR a time long ago when it > didn't. Not by default. It certainly /can/ though. I can't say it's been available "forever", but reservations for specific MAC addresses have been available for the last 20 years. Noting, of course, that just because a network has a DHCP pool, you don't _have_ to use it for all hosts. For example here, I have all "servers" and network hardware set up with static addresses outside the DHCP Pool, then a pool for mobile devices (phones / tablets / etc.) and obviously anything "new" that gets added. -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/30/23 05:32, Dan Purgert wrote:
On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
On 11/29/23 17:52, Dan Purgert wrote:
On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
On 11/29/23 14:03, Greg Wooledge wrote:
On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:
'ntpd' I think (or is it systemd-timed or something like that nowadays?)
Gene's system is running some derivative of buster (Debian 10).
No I am not, Greg, been running bookworm for almost a year on this machine.
It is the 3d printer, a QIDI X-MAX 3, which is running armbian buster that
I am trying to fix. At least enough to set its clock, which is about a year
out of date ATM.
Just now did a powerdown which restarts it at:Sun 01 Jan 2023 06:02:14 AM
PST
I have added some of my hosts file into its hosts file, and I can ping back
and forth, and a valid ipv4 nameserver to resolv.conf and ping is working
locally. But I can't find where its setting its default ipv4 address to the
avahi bs, even with grep -r.
Avahi BS? APIPA ("A"utomatic "P"rivate "IP" "A"ddressing) is not
avahi/mDNS (aka Bonjour / Zeroconf).
Your DHCP client giving you an APIPA address is indicative of broken
DHCP, and the fix is either:
A. Fix your broken DHCP
B. Set the machine up with a static IP address
I'm kind of surprised that an Armbian box doesn't have a hwclock that
you can set the proper time on, to survive reboots (but anyway, I
imagine once you get the machine running with a valid IP address for
your network, it'll be able to use whatever time-sync service armbian
ships with (quick ddg search implies it ships with chrony installed /
setup as default).
I'll have to check that, but installing chrony here on this bookworm box
will remove the systemd thing, which is present on the armbian buster
Leave the bookworm PC alone - the problem is specifically on your
armbian box or network in general.
installed on it. ISTR I had the rpi4 setup on buster raspios plus my rt
kernel, and that static entry IIRC was in /etc/network/interfaces, which I
haven't tried yet. Was that buster or did they have a better place.
/etc/network/interfaces is the standard place for configuring network
interfaces in Debian and derivatives (although Network Mangler may be
offered as a frontend)
Tickled my memory, /etc/dhcpcd.conf would appear to be the place. But I'll
have to compose 100% of the option "static".
"Static" IP addressing is not handled in dhcp client configs.
According to the buster it is an option, and at one time, perhaps
wheezy, there was a whole stanza of commented code at the bottom of the
file, where last ditch descriptions could be uncommented and filled in
to suit a static setup after all efforts to find a dhcp server have
failed. This to me was the logical place to put that. Re-read the man
page. Its been simplified quite a bit but seems to exist yet if you
know how.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Nov 30, 2023, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 30/11/2023 05:53, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > Avahi BS? APIPA ("A"utomatic "P"rivate "IP" "A"ddressing) is not
> > avahi/mDNS (aka Bonjour / Zeroconf).
> >
> > Your DHCP client giving you an APIPA address is indicative of broken
> > DHCP, and the fix is either:
>
> avahi-daemon (multicast name resolution and service discovery) and
> avahi-autoipd (link-local IP addresses) debian packages are built from the
> same "avahi" upstream project despite their purpose is different (and
> related).
>
> There are alternatives that may play the same roles (assigning 169.254.x.y
> IPv4LL addresses and sending/responding to mDNS queries): udhcp,
> systemd-networkd. I am unsure however if all CUPS features are available
> without avahi.
APIPA (or I guess more appropriately now -- IPv4LL) addresses are a
timeout failure mode of the DHCP client (IIRC the default Debian client
is / was isc-dhcp-client). At least that's what's running here (box
pulled forward from a netinst of Jessie or Sarge), and _without_
avahi-autoipd I can get those if DHCP falls over (least ISTR getting it,
maybe I never did :/ )
>
> With proper network configuration (static IP addresses as first step) avahi
> may be ignored in this case. Currently avahi-autoipd (or another tool)
> successfully manged to make it possible to connect at least local network.
> Since static IPs are used in the local network, manual configuration is
> required to make global connections available.
>
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Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/29/23 17:52, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 11/29/23 14:03, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > > > > 'ntpd' I think (or is it systemd-timed or something like that
> > > > > nowadays?)
> > > >
> > > > Gene's system is running some derivative of buster (Debian 10).
> > > No I am not, Greg, been running bookworm for almost a year on this
> > > machine.
> > > It is the 3d printer, a QIDI X-MAX 3, which is running armbian buster
> > > that
> > > I am trying to fix. At least enough to set its clock, which is about a
> > > year
> > > out of date ATM.
> > >
> > > Just now did a powerdown which restarts it at:Sun 01 Jan 2023 06:02:14 AM
> > > PST
> > >
> > > I have added some of my hosts file into its hosts file, and I can ping
> > > back
> > > and forth, and a valid ipv4 nameserver to resolv.conf and ping is working
> > > locally. But I can't find where its setting its default ipv4 address to
> > > the
> > > avahi bs, even with grep -r.
> >
> > Avahi BS? APIPA ("A"utomatic "P"rivate "IP" "A"ddressing) is not
> > avahi/mDNS (aka Bonjour / Zeroconf).
> >
> > Your DHCP client giving you an APIPA address is indicative of broken
> > DHCP, and the fix is either:
> >
> >A. Fix your broken DHCP
> >B. Set the machine up with a static IP address
> >
> > I'm kind of surprised that an Armbian box doesn't have a hwclock that
> > you can set the proper time on, to survive reboots (but anyway, I
> > imagine once you get the machine running with a valid IP address for
> > your network, it'll be able to use whatever time-sync service armbian
> > ships with (quick ddg search implies it ships with chrony installed /
> > setup as default).
>
> I'll have to check that, but installing chrony here on this bookworm box
> will remove the systemd thing, which is present on the armbian buster
Leave the bookworm PC alone - the problem is specifically on your
armbian box or network in general.
> installed on it. ISTR I had the rpi4 setup on buster raspios plus my rt
> kernel, and that static entry IIRC was in /etc/network/interfaces, which I
> haven't tried yet. Was that buster or did they have a better place.
/etc/network/interfaces is the standard place for configuring network
interfaces in Debian and derivatives (although Network Mangler may be
offered as a frontend)
> Tickled my memory, /etc/dhcpcd.conf would appear to be the place. But I'll
> have to compose 100% of the option "static".
"Static" IP addressing is not handled in dhcp client configs.
--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 23:52, Max Nikulin wrote:
On 30/11/2023 11:07, gene heskett wrote:
root@mkspi:/etc# networkctl
WARNING: systemd-networkd is not running, output will be incomplete.
IDX LINK TYPE OPERATIONAL SETUP
1 lo loopback n/a unmanaged
2 eth0 ether n/a unmanaged
3 wlan0 wlan n/a unmanaged
So systemd-networkd does not manage network. (You may still get a bit
more from it by "networkctl status").
root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli
-bash: nmcli: command not found
The network-manager package is not installed, so likely it is ifupdown.
On 11/29/23 21:31, Max Nikulin wrote:
P.S. Enabling DHCP may allow to use default network configuration on
all devices.
hu, I'm logged in wit ssh:
root@mkspi:/etc# cat default/networking
Charles suggests to enable DHCP server on your router and I support him.
Concerning this particular machine and static network configuration see
/etc/network/interfaces, interfaces(5),
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration (this link was almost
certainly posted in earlier threads).
grep -r '' /etc/network/interfaces{,.d}
However it did not work, and the file was replaced by one containing
only lo by networkmangler on a powerdown reboot. Next???
I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in
/etc/dhcpcd.conf? This is already in /etc/hosts like this:
---
root@mkspi:~# cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1 localhost
192.168.71.1 router.coyote.denrouter
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den coyote
192.168.71.100 mkspi.coyote.den mkspi
::1localhost ip6-localhost ip6-loopback
fe00::0ip6-localnet
ff00::0ip6-mcastprefix
ff02::1ip6-allnodes
ff02::2ip6-allrouters
--
For reference, this is what I put in /e/n/i":
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.71.100/24
gateway 192.168.71.1
dns-nameservers 192.168.71.1
---
That format worked on an rpi4b running debian arm64 bookworm, but not on
the armbian buster in this printer.
Thank you.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 23:52, Max Nikulin wrote:
On 30/11/2023 11:07, gene heskett wrote:
root@mkspi:/etc# networkctl
WARNING: systemd-networkd is not running, output will be incomplete.
IDX LINK TYPE OPERATIONAL SETUP
1 lo loopback n/a unmanaged
2 eth0 ether n/a unmanaged
3 wlan0 wlan n/a unmanaged
So systemd-networkd does not manage network. (You may still get a bit
more from it by "networkctl status").
root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli
-bash: nmcli: command not found
The network-manager package is not installed, so likely it is ifupdown.
On 11/29/23 21:31, Max Nikulin wrote:
P.S. Enabling DHCP may allow to use default network configuration on
all devices.
hu, I'm logged in wit ssh:
root@mkspi:/etc# cat default/networking
Charles suggests to enable DHCP server on your router and I support him.
Concerning this particular machine and static network configuration see
/etc/network/interfaces, interfaces(5),
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration (this link was almost
certainly posted in earlier threads).
grep -r '' /etc/network/interfaces{,.d}
Got it, thank you.
.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 23:34, Charles Curley wrote: On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 23:15:16 -0500 gene heskett wrote: In what file do I place similar info to this for eth0? That is part of the ISC DHCP server's configuration. /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf man dhcpd.conf I thought so but wanted a confirmation, thank you. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 30/11/2023 11:07, gene heskett wrote:
root@mkspi:/etc# networkctl
WARNING: systemd-networkd is not running, output will be incomplete.
IDX LINK TYPE OPERATIONAL SETUP
1 lo loopback n/a unmanaged
2 eth0 ether n/a unmanaged
3 wlan0 wlan n/a unmanaged
So systemd-networkd does not manage network. (You may still get a bit
more from it by "networkctl status").
root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli
-bash: nmcli: command not found
The network-manager package is not installed, so likely it is ifupdown.
On 11/29/23 21:31, Max Nikulin wrote:
P.S. Enabling DHCP may allow to use default network configuration on
all devices.
hu, I'm logged in wit ssh:
root@mkspi:/etc# cat default/networking
Charles suggests to enable DHCP server on your router and I support him.
Concerning this particular machine and static network configuration see
/etc/network/interfaces, interfaces(5),
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration (this link was almost
certainly posted in earlier threads).
grep -r '' /etc/network/interfaces{,.d}
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Sorry!
Wrong listcomes from reading at 300 plus words per minute.
On Wed, 29 Nov 2023, Karen Lewellen wrote:
Chime,
in elinks do the following..there may be a faster way but it works.
open the browser without providing a web location as in just type elinks
Hit the escape key, bringing up the menu bar.
arrow right to view
arrow down until you hear toggle link numbering
Hit space more than likely? Was so happy to find it, I did not change it
laughs.
Kare
On Wed, 29 Nov 2023, gene heskett wrote:
On 11/29/23 21:40, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:53:19 -0500
> gene heskett wrote:
>
> > > A changing network is exactly what dhcp is for. With it you will
> > > not need to do anything when you add a machine.
> >
> > Does it always lock the address to that MAC? ISTR a time long ago
> > when it didn't.
>
> Normally DHCP does not lock a given IP address to a given MAC address.
> However, you can do so on a per machine basis with the fixed-address
> option. E.g:
>
> host hawk # new (2016) desktop
> {
> option host-name "hawk";
> hardware ethernet 30:5a:3a:81:83:79;
> fixed-address 192.168.100.6;
> option domain-name-servers 192.168.100.30, 127.0.0.1; # chaffee,
> localhost
> ddns-hostname hawk;
}
In what file do I place similar info to this for eth0?
Thank you Charles. Stay warm and well
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Chime,
in elinks do the following..there may be a faster way but it works.
open the browser without providing a web location as in just type elinks
Hit the escape key, bringing up the menu bar.
arrow right to view
arrow down until you hear toggle link numbering
Hit space more than likely? Was so happy to find it, I did not change it
laughs.
Kare
On Wed, 29 Nov 2023, gene heskett wrote:
On 11/29/23 21:40, Charles Curley wrote:
On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:53:19 -0500
gene heskett wrote:
> > A changing network is exactly what dhcp is for. With it you will
> > not need to do anything when you add a machine.
>
> Does it always lock the address to that MAC? ISTR a time long ago
> when it didn't.
Normally DHCP does not lock a given IP address to a given MAC address.
However, you can do so on a per machine basis with the fixed-address
option. E.g:
host hawk # new (2016) desktop
{
option host-name "hawk";
hardware ethernet 30:5a:3a:81:83:79;
fixed-address 192.168.100.6;
option domain-name-servers 192.168.100.30, 127.0.0.1; # chaffee,
localhost
ddns-hostname hawk;
}
In what file do I place similar info to this for eth0?
Thank you Charles. Stay warm and well
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 23:15:16 -0500 gene heskett wrote: > In what file do I place similar info to this for eth0? That is part of the ISC DHCP server's configuration. /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf man dhcpd.conf -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 21:40, Charles Curley wrote:
On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:53:19 -0500
gene heskett wrote:
A changing network is exactly what dhcp is for. With it you will
not need to do anything when you add a machine.
Does it always lock the address to that MAC? ISTR a time long ago
when it didn't.
Normally DHCP does not lock a given IP address to a given MAC address.
However, you can do so on a per machine basis with the fixed-address
option. E.g:
host hawk # new (2016) desktop
{
option host-name "hawk";
hardware ethernet 30:5a:3a:81:83:79;
fixed-address 192.168.100.6;
option domain-name-servers 192.168.100.30, 127.0.0.1; # chaffee, localhost
ddns-hostname hawk;
}
In what file do I place similar info to this for eth0?
Thank you Charles. Stay warm and well
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 21:31, Max Nikulin wrote: On 30/11/2023 06:51, gene heskett wrote: Which is what I want to do but I've been told that /etc/network/interfaces is not the "today way" to do it. What was the context when you have been told that? If you are using NetworkManager then just change connection properties to "manual" in the IPv4 section. Alternatively just configure ifupdown (/etc/network/interfaces) and reboot if you are unsure how to reload NetworkManager configuration. By default NetworkManager ignores interfaces configured using ifupdown. I assume that neither tool configured systemd-networkd on your machine. Check output of the following commands networkctl root@mkspi:/etc# networkctl WARNING: systemd-networkd is not running, output will be incomplete. IDX LINK TYPE OPERATIONAL SETUP 1 lo loopback n/a unmanaged 2 eth0 ether n/a unmanaged 3 wlan0wlan n/a unmanaged 3 links listed. nmcli root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli -bash: nmcli: command not found P.S. Enabling DHCP may allow to use default network configuration on all devices. hu, I'm logged in wit ssh: root@mkspi:/etc# cat default/networking # Configuration for networking init script being run during # the boot sequence # Set to 'no' to skip interfaces configuration on boot #CONFIGURE_INTERFACES=yes # Don't configure these interfaces. Shell wildcards supported/ #EXCLUDE_INTERFACES= # Set to 'yes' to enable additional verbosity #VERBOSE=no # Method to wait for the network to become online, # for services that depend on a working network: # - ifup: wait for ifup to have configured an interface. # - route: wait for a route to a given address to appear. # - ping/ping6: wait for a host to respond to ping packets. # - none: don't wait. #WAIT_ONLINE_METHOD=ifup # Which interface to wait for. # If none given, wait for all auto interfaces, or if there are none, # wait for at least one hotplug interface. #WAIT_ONLINE_IFACE= # Which address to wait for for route, ping and ping6 methods. # If none is given for route, it waits for a default gateway. #WAIT_ONLINE_ADDRESS= # Timeout in seconds for waiting for the network to come online. #WAIT_ONLINE_TIMEOUT=300 -EOF- What does all this tell someone more experienced? . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 30/11/2023 05:53, Dan Purgert wrote:
Avahi BS? APIPA ("A"utomatic "P"rivate "IP" "A"ddressing) is not
avahi/mDNS (aka Bonjour / Zeroconf).
Your DHCP client giving you an APIPA address is indicative of broken
DHCP, and the fix is either:
avahi-daemon (multicast name resolution and service discovery) and
avahi-autoipd (link-local IP addresses) debian packages are built from
the same "avahi" upstream project despite their purpose is different
(and related).
There are alternatives that may play the same roles (assigning
169.254.x.y IPv4LL addresses and sending/responding to mDNS queries):
udhcp, systemd-networkd. I am unsure however if all CUPS features are
available without avahi.
With proper network configuration (static IP addresses as first step)
avahi may be ignored in this case. Currently avahi-autoipd (or another
tool) successfully manged to make it possible to connect at least local
network. Since static IPs are used in the local network, manual
configuration is required to make global connections available.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:53:19 -0500
gene heskett wrote:
> > A changing network is exactly what dhcp is for. With it you will
> > not need to do anything when you add a machine.
>
> Does it always lock the address to that MAC? ISTR a time long ago
> when it didn't.
Normally DHCP does not lock a given IP address to a given MAC address.
However, you can do so on a per machine basis with the fixed-address
option. E.g:
host hawk # new (2016) desktop
{
option host-name "hawk";
hardware ethernet 30:5a:3a:81:83:79;
fixed-address 192.168.100.6;
option domain-name-servers 192.168.100.30, 127.0.0.1; # chaffee, localhost
ddns-hostname hawk;
}
--
Does anybody read signatures any more?
https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 30/11/2023 06:51, gene heskett wrote: Which is what I want to do but I've been told that /etc/network/interfaces is not the "today way" to do it. What was the context when you have been told that? If you are using NetworkManager then just change connection properties to "manual" in the IPv4 section. Alternatively just configure ifupdown (/etc/network/interfaces) and reboot if you are unsure how to reload NetworkManager configuration. By default NetworkManager ignores interfaces configured using ifupdown. I assume that neither tool configured systemd-networkd on your machine. Check output of the following commands networkctl nmcli P.S. Enabling DHCP may allow to use default network configuration on all devices.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 20:20, John Hasler wrote: Gene writes: I've been told that /etc/network/interfaces is not the "today way" to do it. It works fine. Then [dhcp is] something else I'll have to maintain as my network grows, A changing network is exactly what dhcp is for. With it you will not need to do anything when you add a machine. Does it always lock the address to that MAC? ISTR a time long ago when it didn't. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Gene writes: > I've been told that /etc/network/interfaces is not the "today way" to > do it. It works fine. > Then [dhcp is] something else I'll have to maintain as my network > grows, A changing network is exactly what dhcp is for. With it you will not need to do anything when you add a machine. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 17:52, Dan Purgert wrote:
On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
On 11/29/23 14:03, Greg Wooledge wrote:
On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:
'ntpd' I think (or is it systemd-timed or something like that nowadays?)
Gene's system is running some derivative of buster (Debian 10).
No I am not, Greg, been running bookworm for almost a year on this machine.
It is the 3d printer, a QIDI X-MAX 3, which is running armbian buster that
I am trying to fix. At least enough to set its clock, which is about a year
out of date ATM.
Just now did a powerdown which restarts it at:Sun 01 Jan 2023 06:02:14 AM
PST
I have added some of my hosts file into its hosts file, and I can ping back
and forth, and a valid ipv4 nameserver to resolv.conf and ping is working
locally. But I can't find where its setting its default ipv4 address to the
avahi bs, even with grep -r.
Avahi BS? APIPA ("A"utomatic "P"rivate "IP" "A"ddressing) is not
avahi/mDNS (aka Bonjour / Zeroconf).
Your DHCP client giving you an APIPA address is indicative of broken
DHCP, and the fix is either:
A. Fix your broken DHCP
B. Set the machine up with a static IP address
I'm kind of surprised that an Armbian box doesn't have a hwclock that
you can set the proper time on, to survive reboots (but anyway, I
imagine once you get the machine running with a valid IP address for
your network, it'll be able to use whatever time-sync service armbian
ships with (quick ddg search implies it ships with chrony installed /
setup as default).
I'll have to check that, but installing chrony here on this bookworm box
will remove the systemd thing, which is present on the armbian buster
installed on it. ISTR I had the rpi4 setup on buster raspios plus my rt
kernel, and that static entry IIRC was in /etc/network/interfaces, which
I haven't tried yet. Was that buster or did they have a better place.
Tickled my memory, /etc/dhcpcd.conf would appear to be the place. But
I'll have to compose 100% of the option "static".
HTH :)
It may have, thank you Dan. Take care & stay well.
Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 7:06 PM Dan Purgert wrote: > > On Nov 29, 2023, Greg Wooledge wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote: > > > 'ntpd' I think (or is it systemd-timed or something like that nowadays?) > > > > Gene's system is running some derivative of buster (Debian 10). > > If I remember correctly, buster did not enable systemd-timed by > > default. The "ntp" package should be available [...] > > Right, I recall it being ntp (vaguely, at least up through Debian9 / > Stretch), but the actual defaults of 9/10/11 are a bit fuzzier. I recently performed an upgrade from a really old release (Jessie or Stretch) to something newer (Bullseye, iirc). It is an old LePotato dev board, so it has been neglected for some time. The board's time was a bit munged. It was a day behind, like no adjustments were being made. When I checked, both ntp and systemd-timesyncd were installed, but neither were configured correctly. I removed the ntp gear, reinstalled systemd-timesyncd, enabled the service, and things have been fine since then. I'm not sure how I got into the state where both ntp and systemd-timesyncd were installed, but neither were being used. It may have been something I did a long time ago. Jeff
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 14:58, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 02:19:51PM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:52:46PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: On 11/29/23 13:20, John Hasler wrote: Install chrony. But first fix that address. How, John? QIDI is afraid of enabling full net access because it might overwrite some of their special stuff. Right now its running armbian buster, which is out of support. And surprise, kiauh.sh is installed, likely how they set the printer up in the first place. Its just a bash script but its magic! There are so many things in this paragraph that I don't understand. What is "QIDI"? Why would enabling full net access "overwrite stuff"? What "stuff"? What is "kiauh.sh" and how is it relevant to this question? QIDI == manufacturer of 3d printers kiauh.sh == helper script to install Klipper Klipper == firmware and environment to drive a 3d printer - large numbers of installed dependencies as I understand it Either configure a static IP address for this host, or set up a DHCP server which will assign it the desired IP address. Those are your two choices. Just configure your armbian to expect a static address - oh, and try really hard *not* to use something as old as buster, maybe? There are reasons that Debian bothers to put out newer releases :) If you want it to be on an isolated network, then put it on an isolated network. If it needs an NTP server, make sure you put one of those on the isolated network as well. It sounds like you don't want a *physically* isolated network, but rather, some kind of numeric subnet whose packets won't be routed to the public Internet. That should be feasible. Here's an example setup: Machine R: Router. Configured to talk to the public Internet, and to the local 192.168.1.x subnet. IP forwarding is enabled (from 192.168.1). Does not know about the 192.168.2.x subnet, and will not forward packets from that subnet. Machine T: Time server. Has two IP addresses -- one on 192.168.1.x and one on 192.168.2.x. Default gateway set to R. Runs NTP, configured to permit client connections from both subnets, and to retrieve time from the public Internet. Machine P: Printer. Has an IP address on the 192.168.2.x subnet only. Runs NTP, configured to retrieve time from T. Other hosts: If they need to talk to the public Internet, then they have an address on 192.168.1.x, and default gateway set to R. If they need to talk to P, they have an address on 192.168.2.x. Some will have both. If they run NTP, configure it to retrieve time from T. Of course, there are other ways to achieve isolation. You could also use a single subnet, but set up a fancy firewall in the router, which blocks the forwarding of all packets from P. Or which doesn't forward by default, but is specifically configured to forward packets from T and other identified hosts. You have lots of choices here. Gene - in all seriousness, I'd suggest sitting down with a memo pad and actually writing down what machines you have, what OS they have and wIhat you want them to *do* At that point, configure machines individually so that they're running the latest practicable software. If that means doing them one by one - do that. Make a list of what functions you need and configure them one by one. Build up something stable rather than constantly hacking and forgetting the precise details of what you've done. If needs be, then give each machine a memorable name and assign each machine a page to note down _precisely_ what changes you make. Take backups of each file you change before you change it and save them according to a naming scheme - I've seen someone name a copy of the original files as x.y.gold where .gold is a suffix that no normal files have. As you make individual modifications, save them as x.y.gold.1, gold.2 and so on. That way, you know how many steps you've taken, how many changes you've made and you can always go back. Once the file is correct, you can delete previous copies apart from the original .gold Just a quick suggestion which you can take or leave as you will .. Andy All good advice Andy, but I've been swimming in the bleeding edge stuff since I turned 16 and could quit school legally, which as you well know is often a disorganized mess since about 1948 when I quit school and went to work fixing them newfangled things called tv's. Me, get organized? At 89 yo, its not likely to happen now. Thanks Andy, take care and stay well. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 14:20, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:52:46PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: On 11/29/23 13:20, John Hasler wrote: Install chrony. But first fix that address. How, John? QIDI is afraid of enabling full net access because it might overwrite some of their special stuff. Right now its running armbian buster, which is out of support. And surprise, kiauh.sh is installed, likely how they set the printer up in the first place. Its just a bash script but its magic! QIDI is the name of the Chinese outfit that makes mid-range printers in the thousand dollar category. Come with all the stuff you normally spend another $800 making a $150 printer work a little better, so its not that bad a deal when you tally up all the stuff a $150 printer is missing. Plus its 3 or 4 times faster than the $150 printer. The X-MAX 3 is the top of their line of printers. There are so many things in this paragraph that I don't understand. What is "QIDI"? Why would enabling full net access "overwrite stuff"? What "stuff"? What is "kiauh.sh" and how is it relevant to this question? They claim they custmized it to drive their printer better, but I'll reserve judgement on that. kiauh.sh (Klipper Installer And Update Helper) is a shell script that keeps a klipper and friends install up to date AND also keeps the OS up to date too, run it 2 or 3 times a week, and you always got the latest stuff as klipper, somewhat like marlin but faster is under fairly rapid development. And its doing things months ahead of marlin. Either configure a static IP address for this host Which is what I want to do but I've been told that /etc/network/interfaces is not the "today way" to do it. OTOH its buster and I think that works in buster. However, my only access to work on this is ssh -X root@address, so I have to be sure I don't brick it. or set up a DHCP server which will assign it the desired IP address. Those are your two choices. Then its something else I'll have to maintain as my network grows, its far easier to edit a hosts file. I had set a 30 character passwd from a random generator based on the number of centuries it would take a hacker to get thru it. Nobody has, including me... If you want it to be on an isolated network, then put it on an isolated network. If it needs an NTP server, make sure you put one of those on the isolated network as well. isolation is not really on my todo list. Every other machine on my local net has a desktop and a browser, fully capable of downloading the newest yak milk recipe from a satellite fed, solar powered yurt 35 klicks north of Ulan Bator. Firefox is an IRQ pig, playing hell with the machines latency, so I don't cut steel and run firefox a the same time. It sounds like you don't want a *physically* isolated network, but rather, some kind of numeric subnet whose packets won't be routed to the public Internet. That should be feasible. Here's an example setup: Machine R: Router. Configured to talk to the public Internet, and to the local 192.168.1.x subnet. IP forwarding is enabled (from 192.168.1). Does not know about the 192.168.2.x subnet, and will not forward packets from that subnet. Machine T: Time server. Has two IP addresses -- one on 192.168.1.x and one on 192.168.2.x. Default gateway set to R. Runs NTP, configured to permit client connections from both subnets, and to retrieve time from the public Internet. Sounds like something I could do with a bananapi-m5, And it would reduce my footprint at debians time servers by aabout 8 machines banging on them now. But that project is 4 or 5 lines from the top of the list. At present I'd like to blow away the systemd and install chrony, configuring that to take over one machine at a time. Can someone lead me to do that? The original protocol could push at intervals and ISTR I had it working on my amiga 2000 and on my color computer 3 running nitros9, circa 1999-2001. Fun times. Machine P: Printer. Has an IP address on the 192.168.2.x subnet only. Runs NTP, configured to retrieve time from T. Other hosts: If they need to talk to the public Internet, then they have an address on 192.168.1.x, and default gateway set to R. If they need to talk to P, they have an address on 192.168.2.x. Some will have both. If they run NTP, configure it to retrieve time from T. Of course, there are other ways to achieve isolation. You could also use a single subnet, but set up a fancy firewall in the router, which blocks the forwarding of all packets from P. Or which doesn't forward by default, but is specifically configured to forward packets from T and other identified hosts. You have lots of choices here. Thanks Greg, take care & sty well. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/29/23 14:03, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > > 'ntpd' I think (or is it systemd-timed or something like that nowadays?)
> >
> > Gene's system is running some derivative of buster (Debian 10).
> No I am not, Greg, been running bookworm for almost a year on this machine.
> It is the 3d printer, a QIDI X-MAX 3, which is running armbian buster that
> I am trying to fix. At least enough to set its clock, which is about a year
> out of date ATM.
>
> Just now did a powerdown which restarts it at:Sun 01 Jan 2023 06:02:14 AM
> PST
>
> I have added some of my hosts file into its hosts file, and I can ping back
> and forth, and a valid ipv4 nameserver to resolv.conf and ping is working
> locally. But I can't find where its setting its default ipv4 address to the
> avahi bs, even with grep -r.
Avahi BS? APIPA ("A"utomatic "P"rivate "IP" "A"ddressing) is not
avahi/mDNS (aka Bonjour / Zeroconf).
Your DHCP client giving you an APIPA address is indicative of broken
DHCP, and the fix is either:
A. Fix your broken DHCP
B. Set the machine up with a static IP address
I'm kind of surprised that an Armbian box doesn't have a hwclock that
you can set the proper time on, to survive reboots (but anyway, I
imagine once you get the machine running with a valid IP address for
your network, it'll be able to use whatever time-sync service armbian
ships with (quick ddg search implies it ships with chrony installed /
setup as default).
HTH :)
--
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|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
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Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 14:12, Lee wrote: On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 12:50 PM gene heskett wrote: Greetings all; I have a 3d printer, an arm64 controller running ambian buster it has an address of 169.254.xx.xx/16 it can ping this machine but something is killing full net access, so it can't set its time. With a 169.254.x.x address I'm surprised it can talk to anything else on your network. Your internet router is running dd-wrt - correct? Why not enable the dhcp server software on that and serve static IP addresses to everything on your network? eg https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Static_DHCP That would take a full factory reset and reprogram, as I lost all those pw's a year ago when 2 brand new seagate 2T spinning rust drives went tits down off line in the night in 2 nights time before I'd had a chance to reconfigure amanda for operation under bookworm,. I rebuilt the machine with all SSD's, and that is still a g-d headache almost a year later. I have repeatedly asked why it takes a minimum of 30 seconds ( once I timed it at a few seconds over 5 minutes ) to open a path to that raid10 that I own every byte of. Your /etc/hosts files will still work and you'll stop getting 169.254.x.x addresses assigned to your machines. Just that one. Its probably easier to turn it into a hosts file system. Off topic, but because that printer does not have ipv6 disabled, I found I could ping6 stuff on this side of the router. Too bad its at least 100 miles away from me yet. Take care & stay well everybody. I gotta go check my snail mail box. Regards, Lee . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 14:03, Greg Wooledge wrote: On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote: 'ntpd' I think (or is it systemd-timed or something like that nowadays?) Gene's system is running some derivative of buster (Debian 10). No I am not, Greg, been running bookworm for almost a year on this machine. It is the 3d printer, a QIDI X-MAX 3, which is running armbian buster that I am trying to fix. At least enough to set its clock, which is about a year out of date ATM. Just now did a powerdown which restarts it at:Sun 01 Jan 2023 06:02:14 AM PST I have added some of my hosts file into its hosts file, and I can ping back and forth, and a valid ipv4 nameserver to resolv.conf and ping is working locally. But I can't find where its setting its default ipv4 address to the avahi bs, even with grep -r. If I remember correctly, buster did not enable systemd-timed by default. This one actually has an /etc/systemd/timesyncd,conf but its default, totally commented out except for the [time] line. The "ntp" package should be available, as well as "chrony". This was of course before the ntp -> ntpsec transition which happened in Debian 12. ATP if I can make chrony sub for systemd's timesyncd, as chrony claims to be a client and a server, then point the ntp queries to this machine, its should not be more than 1 or 2 milliseconds out of time, plenty good enough for the girls I might go with. Heck, I was doing it in 1998 with rh5.0 to keep my full blown amiga on time. But tons of changes have blockaided me in late 2023. It seems to me that if timesyncd is replacing the ntp stuff, it ought to be a full replacement but the word server is not mentioned in the docs I've read so far today. So I need hand holding guidance. And the client is running armbian buster, 64 bit. On a rockchip board. Thanks all. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 02:19:51PM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:52:46PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > > On 11/29/23 13:20, John Hasler wrote: > > > Install chrony. But first fix that address. > > > > How, John? QIDI is afraid of enabling full net access because it might > > overwrite some of their special stuff. Right now its running armbian buster, > > which is out of support. And surprise, kiauh.sh is installed, likely how > > they set the printer up in the first place. Its just a bash script but its > > magic! > > There are so many things in this paragraph that I don't understand. > What is "QIDI"? Why would enabling full net access "overwrite stuff"? > What "stuff"? What is "kiauh.sh" and how is it relevant to this > question? > QIDI == manufacturer of 3d printers kiauh.sh == helper script to install Klipper Klipper == firmware and environment to drive a 3d printer - large numbers of installed dependencies as I understand it > Either configure a static IP address for this host, or set up a DHCP > server which will assign it the desired IP address. Those are your > two choices. > Just configure your armbian to expect a static address - oh, and try really hard *not* to use something as old as buster, maybe? There are reasons that Debian bothers to put out newer releases :) > If you want it to be on an isolated network, then put it on an isolated > network. If it needs an NTP server, make sure you put one of those > on the isolated network as well. > > It sounds like you don't want a *physically* isolated network, but rather, > some kind of numeric subnet whose packets won't be routed to the public > Internet. That should be feasible. Here's an example setup: > > Machine R: Router. Configured to talk to the public Internet, and to > the local 192.168.1.x subnet. IP forwarding is enabled (from 192.168.1). > Does not know about the 192.168.2.x subnet, and will not forward packets > from that subnet. > > Machine T: Time server. Has two IP addresses -- one on 192.168.1.x and > one on 192.168.2.x. Default gateway set to R. Runs NTP, configured to > permit client connections from both subnets, and to retrieve time from > the public Internet. > > Machine P: Printer. Has an IP address on the 192.168.2.x subnet only. > Runs NTP, configured to retrieve time from T. > > Other hosts: If they need to talk to the public Internet, then they have > an address on 192.168.1.x, and default gateway set to R. If they need > to talk to P, they have an address on 192.168.2.x. Some will have both. > If they run NTP, configure it to retrieve time from T. > > Of course, there are other ways to achieve isolation. You could also > use a single subnet, but set up a fancy firewall in the router, which > blocks the forwarding of all packets from P. Or which doesn't forward > by default, but is specifically configured to forward packets from T > and other identified hosts. You have lots of choices here. > Gene - in all seriousness, I'd suggest sitting down with a memo pad and actually writing down what machines you have, what OS they have and wIhat you want them to *do* At that point, configure machines individually so that they're running the latest practicable software. If that means doing them one by one - do that. Make a list of what functions you need and configure them one by one. Build up something stable rather than constantly hacking and forgetting the precise details of what you've done. If needs be, then give each machine a memorable name and assign each machine a page to note down _precisely_ what changes you make. Take backups of each file you change before you change it and save them according to a naming scheme - I've seen someone name a copy of the original files as x.y.gold where .gold is a suffix that no normal files have. As you make individual modifications, save them as x.y.gold.1, gold.2 and so on. That way, you know how many steps you've taken, how many changes you've made and you can always go back. Once the file is correct, you can delete previous copies apart from the original .gold Just a quick suggestion which you can take or leave as you will .. Andy
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:52:46PM -0500, gene heskett wrote: > On 11/29/23 13:20, John Hasler wrote: > > Install chrony. But first fix that address. > > How, John? QIDI is afraid of enabling full net access because it might > overwrite some of their special stuff. Right now its running armbian buster, > which is out of support. And surprise, kiauh.sh is installed, likely how > they set the printer up in the first place. Its just a bash script but its > magic! There are so many things in this paragraph that I don't understand. What is "QIDI"? Why would enabling full net access "overwrite stuff"? What "stuff"? What is "kiauh.sh" and how is it relevant to this question? Either configure a static IP address for this host, or set up a DHCP server which will assign it the desired IP address. Those are your two choices. If you want it to be on an isolated network, then put it on an isolated network. If it needs an NTP server, make sure you put one of those on the isolated network as well. It sounds like you don't want a *physically* isolated network, but rather, some kind of numeric subnet whose packets won't be routed to the public Internet. That should be feasible. Here's an example setup: Machine R: Router. Configured to talk to the public Internet, and to the local 192.168.1.x subnet. IP forwarding is enabled (from 192.168.1). Does not know about the 192.168.2.x subnet, and will not forward packets from that subnet. Machine T: Time server. Has two IP addresses -- one on 192.168.1.x and one on 192.168.2.x. Default gateway set to R. Runs NTP, configured to permit client connections from both subnets, and to retrieve time from the public Internet. Machine P: Printer. Has an IP address on the 192.168.2.x subnet only. Runs NTP, configured to retrieve time from T. Other hosts: If they need to talk to the public Internet, then they have an address on 192.168.1.x, and default gateway set to R. If they need to talk to P, they have an address on 192.168.2.x. Some will have both. If they run NTP, configure it to retrieve time from T. Of course, there are other ways to achieve isolation. You could also use a single subnet, but set up a fancy firewall in the router, which blocks the forwarding of all packets from P. Or which doesn't forward by default, but is specifically configured to forward packets from T and other identified hosts. You have lots of choices here.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 12:50 PM gene heskett wrote: > > Greetings all; > > I have a 3d printer, an arm64 controller running ambian buster > it has an address of 169.254.xx.xx/16 > it can ping this machine but something is killing full net access, so it > can't set its time. With a 169.254.x.x address I'm surprised it can talk to anything else on your network. Your internet router is running dd-wrt - correct? Why not enable the dhcp server software on that and serve static IP addresses to everything on your network? eg https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Static_DHCP Your /etc/hosts files will still work and you'll stop getting 169.254.x.x addresses assigned to your machines. Regards, Lee
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Nov 29, 2023, Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote: > > 'ntpd' I think (or is it systemd-timed or something like that nowadays?) > > Gene's system is running some derivative of buster (Debian 10). > If I remember correctly, buster did not enable systemd-timed by > default. The "ntp" package should be available [...] Right, I recall it being ntp (vaguely, at least up through Debian9 / Stretch), but the actual defaults of 9/10/11 are a bit fuzzier. Downside of not actually following the release info as closely as I used to, I guess. :) -- |_|O|_| |_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote: > 'ntpd' I think (or is it systemd-timed or something like that nowadays?) Gene's system is running some derivative of buster (Debian 10). If I remember correctly, buster did not enable systemd-timed by default. The "ntp" package should be available, as well as "chrony". This was of course before the ntp -> ntpsec transition which happened in Debian 12.
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 13:20, John Hasler wrote: Install chrony. But first fix that address. How, John? QIDI is afraid of enabling full net access because it might overwrite some of their special stuff. Right now its running armbian buster, which is out of support. And surprise, kiauh.sh is installed, likely how they set the printer up in the first place. Its just a bash script but its magic! Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
On 11/29/23 12:58, Dan Ritter wrote: gene heskett wrote: Greetings all; I have a 3d printer, an arm64 controller running ambian buster it has an address of 169.254.xx.xx/16 That IP suggests that it has not got a static IP or a DHCP address, and doesn't know what the local network is. Do you actually run your internal network on 169.254? Country boy dumb maybe, stoopid no. All my stuff is 192.168.xxx.xxx This printer is setup for dhcp, and there are zero dhcp servers on my network, its not even enabled in dd-wrt. All hosts file based here. I can edit /etc/hosts on the printer but so far the only thing I have tried is by nameserver 192.168.xxx.xxx in its resolv.conf, and while that enables the dns lookup so while I can ping -c1 yahoo.com, which gets its address, but the reply does not get back to the printer, 100% packet loss. So here I am, hat in hand. > it can ping this machine but something is killing full net access, so it can't set its time. It can talk to this machine by address. Running bookworm here. There was at onetime, the ability to make this machine serve as a lower level time server so it should be possible to have this printers time requests satisfied by this machine which s/b within a millisecond or 2 of the master clock in Boulder CO. Is there a ready made package for that? Or, can this be enabled in systemd stuff? apt install ntp or apt install ntpsec or apt install chrony I just looked at all 3, but what happens to systemd.timesync.d or whatever its called. Don't they start a fight? The defaults for Debian time packages use the Debian NTP pool: https://www.pool.ntp.org/ -dsr- . Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: time question, as in ntp?
Install chrony. But first fix that address. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
