Re: Third-Party ALv2 Dependencies (RE: Limiting Trademark Policy Discussion ...)

[Dave Fisher]

I appreciate all your diligence about licenses. It is valuable. Whatever you 
want to call this thread ...

One intention was to discuss what if anything is required with respect to 
trademarks when ANY third party product is (re)based on Apache OpenOffice.

For example it cannot be called OpenOffice. If there are exceptions to this 
then these should be openly and explicitly acknowledged. I am not saying that 
there are any.

You are missing the idea of creating a Powered By designation which is about 
trademark and not the license.

If no one is interested then fine. If everyone is happy with the status quo so 
be it, but I don't think it is the case.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 30, 2015, at 9:45 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton orc...@apache.org wrote:
 
 From the Chair,
 
 I need to speak up about the rebasing business.
 
 1. Use of the ALv2 has nothing to do with trademarks, so this conversation 
 should be on a separate thread.  
 
 2. However, it probably should not be held here and certainly not privately 
 by the PMC.  If someone wants to pursue it, I suggest these observations be 
 checked with an authoritative source on a more-appropriate list, perhaps 
 legal-discuss.  Absent that, I request that this conversation not go any 
 farther.
 
 - Dennis
 
 - - - - - - - - - - -
 
 OBSERVATIONS
 
 3. Whatever the term rebase signified, I think we can all agree that it is 
 about a fork (or a refork: if you prefer).   
 
 4. At the ASF, forking is a feature.  The only requirement is that the ALv2 
 (and any other applicable licenses) be honored.  I know, people can be 
 unhappy and will object.   But the ASF position, to the extent one is needed, 
 is captured by forking is a feature.
 
 5. The ASF *does*not* police the use of ALv2 content by third parties.  The 
 ASF prides itself on how it manages third-party and contributed content.  The 
 ASF is meticulous about IP provenance.  That is part of the way in which the 
 ASF operates in the public interest by being an extraordinary open-source 
 citizen.  That is what the ASF does.  It is not about what others might or 
 might not do.
 
 6. It is up to third parties to satisfy themselves that they are operating 
 with any incorporated ALv2 code and its derivatives appropriately.  It is not 
 the business of the ASF to warrant anything about such activity.  Those who 
 wish to reuse and repurpose code from the third party must also satisfy 
 themselves.  That has nothing directly to do with the ASF.
 
 7. Here is further evidence that the ASF is not the ALv2 sheriff over 
 third-party reliance and handling of ALv2 code in their works.
 
  It is perfectly clear that closed-source works that have code dependencies 
  on ALv2 works of others are not required to provide an account to anybody,
  as far as ALv2 license terms go, beyond the appropriate provision of 
  LICENSE/NOTICE files.  
 
 - - - - - -
 
 PERSONAL REMARK
 
  I have personally confirmed that a kindred OpenOffice.org-descendant does 
 indeed satisfy the LICENSE/NOTICE provisions of the ALv2.  Those files were, 
 in fact, easier for me to find in the installed binaries than in installs of 
 Apache OpenOffice distributions.
 
  I have also remarked, in a discussion elsewhere, that I feel the way ALv2 is 
 characterized in individual derivative files I've examined is, to my taste, a 
 bit sketchy.  However, the observed practice is not unusual and even happens 
 in the publishing industry where there tends to be serious attention to 
 rights and permissions.  
 
  I don't think there is a legality question, just my own fussiness, and that 
 of some others, in how provenance and attribution is accounted for in our own 
 work.  It should be well-known by now that my fussiness threshold is rather 
 different than that of many other developers [;).  
 
  This does not matter.  I am not an ALv2 cop either.  I can only satisfy 
 myself on what I rely on and how I am comfortable that I know enough about 
 its provenance to feel safe in doing so. 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] 
 Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 07:58
 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
 Subject: Re: Limiting Trademark Policy Discussion (was RE: [REPORT] PMC 
 2015-07 Private-List ...)
 
 Hi,
 
 On 29 Aug 15, at 21:13, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote:
 [ ... ]
 We should (re)acknowledge what (re)based on Apache OpenOffice requires 
 whatever that really is.
 
 Yep.
 [ ... ]
 
 
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Re: Limiting Trademark Policy Discussion (was RE: [REPORT] PMC 2015-07 Private-List ...)

[Dave Fisher]

As me from my soapbox:

Any proposal for reworking trademark policies would naturally grandfather 
prior arrangements. My hope is that any rework of policies would be more and 
not less generous than current reality.

I think that the project should have an open source code test for Powered By 
that applies to all. The rights to use are clear for all. The obligations 
spelled out. Benefits given equally.

We should (re)acknowledge what (re)based on Apache OpenOffice requires whatever 
that really is.

Once we have a proposal that the community likes we can go through any type of 
confirmation or clearance the Brand committee requires.

I expect that this discussion should proceed carefully and not rush into set 
form but instead collect ideas focusing on different parts. There must be an 
opportunity to heal rifts with respect for all.

Are you open to that discussion?

Are you open to any and all to that discussion?

This process is not against any group, but for all.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 29, 2015, at 5:26 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton orc...@apache.org wrote:
 
 From the Chair,
 
 I don't know, off-hand, what the proportion of discussion of Trademark Policy 
 is in the PMC private discussion activity so far this year.
 
 However, a discussion of trademark policy, as such, especially with real and 
 fictional examples, is inappropriate on this list if it is about trademark 
 enforcement.  Trademark enforcement, when material to an issue before the 
 PMC, is a private duty of the PMC.  There are ways to reduce the discussion 
 to essentials there, however.
 
 Let me illustrate what I mean by this.  Let's say the Apache OpenOffice PMC 
 has offered arrangements, ratified VP Brand Management, by which a third 
 party can employ AOO marks as part of a Powered by Apache OpenOffice 
 labeling.  The PMC establishes the conditions under which that arrangement is 
 available to individual parties and may propose custom arrangements based on 
 the circumstances.  That might be useful to describe and clarify here.  
 
 On the other hand, proposal of conditions under which third parties might be 
 *required* to enter into such an arrangement is entirely different, even 
 hypothetically.  As far as I know that is inconsistent with the ASF view of 
 how its mission is accomplished and its being a good citizen in the world of 
 open-source activities.  The ASF is by nature not litigious and resolves 
 concerns about inappropriate use of its marks by other means. I can't imagine 
 it attempting to compel use of any of its marks.
 
 IMPORTANT. Trademark protection, infringement, and remedies are serious legal 
 matters and they are not for inexpert discussion on public mailing lists.  
 Suspicions of infringement and any acting on those suspicions in public 
 pronouncements are unwelcome.  Even disguised accounts of specific situations 
 relevant to this project are inappropriate.  And if not relevant to this 
 project, they don't belong here either.
 
 To abbreviate the need for custom PMC discussions on cases of alleged 
 trademark infringement, I have posted a policy applicable to how the AOO PMC 
 shall deal with any allegations of infringement and prospective curing of 
 such infringements at
 http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/pmc/Policies/Trademark-Infringement-Allegations-2015-08.txt.
   
 
 Questions, comments, and suggestions about that text are welcome.
 
 - Dennis
 
 BACKGROUND INFORMATION
 
 At the Apache Software Foundation, the Board delegates the determination and 
 resolution of trademark matters to the Vice President, Brand Management.  All 
 external engagement with respect to trademarks is handled discretely within 
 the PMC and then always reviewed by, and possibly acted upon, by VP Brand 
 Management and only VP Brand Management.
 
 Individual projects are expected to be vigilant about how marks are used and 
 also allowed in the domain of the project.  The Apache OpenOffice PMC 
 conducts such activities.  The web site page at 
 http://openoffice.apache.org/trademarks.html is sufficient information for 
 those who have concerns for use of or infringing use of Apache OpenOffice 
 marks.  
 
 There are non-specific topical discussions on the use of marks and the naming 
 of software distributions based on code from ASF projects, such as recent 
 discussions on gene...@incubator.apache.org and legal-disc...@apache.org.  
 There are some seemingly-borderline cases that the ASF may take a position 
 on, and it might become necessary for the AOO PMC to be watchful for such 
 cases.  In general, VP Brand Management will establish what such cases are.  
 The determination can easily be that some or all such cases are trifles in 
 the context of the mission of the ASF and will not be pursued.  The LEGAL 
 JIRA section might also have issues related to branding issues.  
 
 
 - Dennis
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net] 
 Sent: Saturday

Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Dave Fisher]

I see no objections to the wording.

If we have funded the leaflet before then I have objections. If not and this is 
permitted then I am for LAZY CONSENSUS.

That covers 2 and 3.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 5, 2015, at 3:49 AM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>> Great!! My mistake.  Go for it: [PROPOSE], [DISCUSS], whatever.
> 
> Being realistic, this won't help much at this stage. Every message where we 
> politely ask each other to start a proper discussion is a waste of time given 
> the very close deadlines.
> 
> Note that I am not involved with the Plugfest at all and I happened to bring 
> the issue here just because of someone's outdated address book, but still I'd 
> like that we get done what we can get done.
> 
> Out of the three issues I originally mentioned:
> 1) Someone from OpenOffice attending
> 2) Updates for the leaflet
> 3) Financial support for the leaflet
> the one that we can get done for sure is 2.
> 
> For 1) we have Louis' availability but by the time everything is approved it 
> will be unrealistic that he can still arrange an intercontinental flight 
> (which is a pity since we started discussing the Plugfest attendance three 
> months ago, we should really learn from this).
> 
> For 3) while I do see some consensus on contributing the 100 GBP = ~135 EUR = 
> ~150 USD for printing the English leaflet, my worry is that we can't get 
> anything decided by the deadline (Tuesday 8 September afternoon European 
> time).
> 
> So, coming to item 2: I'm still hopeful we can provide up-to-date data about 
> OpenOffice. You can find below what is needed, what is currently there and 
> what I propose we send them (which I will have to do on Tuesday morning 
> European time; if someone else takes care of it I'll be happier).
> 
> NEEDED   CURRENT  PROPOSED
> Software (name)  Apache Open Office   Apache OpenOffice
> License  Open Source  Open Source (ALv2)
> Formats  All  (no changes) [1]
> Platforms(empty)  Windows, OS X, Linux, 
> third-party ports to Android, FreeBSD, OS/2
> Support  Community(no changes) [2]
> Link http://www.openoffice.org/   (no changes)
> Notes(empty)  (empty)
> 
> [1]: Formats are the ODF file extensions, not the non-ODF file types.
> [2]: Here the choice is between Community and Commercial.
> 
> Can we at least agree on this basic information for the "Applications" 
> sections, which is what they need most?
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
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Re: ODF Plugfest: participation and leaflets

[Dave Fisher]

Excuse me I meant NO objections. Sorry.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 5, 2015, at 8:04 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> I see no objections to the wording.
> 
> If we have funded the leaflet before then I have objections. If not and this 
> is permitted then I am for LAZY CONSENSUS.
> 
> That covers 2 and 3.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 5, 2015, at 3:49 AM, Andrea Pescetti <pesce...@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>> Great!! My mistake.  Go for it: [PROPOSE], [DISCUSS], whatever.
>> 
>> Being realistic, this won't help much at this stage. Every message where we 
>> politely ask each other to start a proper discussion is a waste of time 
>> given the very close deadlines.
>> 
>> Note that I am not involved with the Plugfest at all and I happened to bring 
>> the issue here just because of someone's outdated address book, but still 
>> I'd like that we get done what we can get done.
>> 
>> Out of the three issues I originally mentioned:
>> 1) Someone from OpenOffice attending
>> 2) Updates for the leaflet
>> 3) Financial support for the leaflet
>> the one that we can get done for sure is 2.
>> 
>> For 1) we have Louis' availability but by the time everything is approved it 
>> will be unrealistic that he can still arrange an intercontinental flight 
>> (which is a pity since we started discussing the Plugfest attendance three 
>> months ago, we should really learn from this).
>> 
>> For 3) while I do see some consensus on contributing the 100 GBP = ~135 EUR 
>> = ~150 USD for printing the English leaflet, my worry is that we can't get 
>> anything decided by the deadline (Tuesday 8 September afternoon European 
>> time).
>> 
>> So, coming to item 2: I'm still hopeful we can provide up-to-date data about 
>> OpenOffice. You can find below what is needed, what is currently there and 
>> what I propose we send them (which I will have to do on Tuesday morning 
>> European time; if someone else takes care of it I'll be happier).
>> 
>> NEEDED   CURRENT  PROPOSED
>> Software (name)  Apache Open Office   Apache OpenOffice
>> License  Open Source  Open Source (ALv2)
>> Formats  All  (no changes) [1]
>> Platforms(empty)  Windows, OS X, Linux, 
>> third-party ports to Android, FreeBSD, OS/2
>> Support  Community(no changes) [2]
>> Link http://www.openoffice.org/   (no changes)
>> Notes(empty)  (empty)
>> 
>> [1]: Formats are the ODF file extensions, not the non-ODF file types.
>> [2]: Here the choice is between Community and Commercial.
>> 
>> Can we at least agree on this basic information for the "Applications" 
>> sections, which is what they need most?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>> 
>> -
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> 
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Re: [PROPOSAL][EXT] Submit UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Carl,

It is a great idea to release these jars. It would be a released product with 
the necessary formality. It could be called something like Apache OpenOffice 
UNO.

A separate product with its own source and convenience maven release. This is a 
typical pattern at Apache.

Again a brilliant idea.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 4, 2015, at 5:18 PM, Carl Marcum  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I propose submitting the latest UNO Java jar files to Maven Repository for 
> inclusion.
> 
> The files are ridl.jar, juh.jar, unoil.jar, and jurt.jar.
> 
> This will allow projects using maven, gradle, etc. build systems to use the 
> AOO UNO java jars.
> 
> Afterward I will update the wiki with the new information.
> 
> The last version available in the Maven repository is 3.2.1.
> 
> If there are no objections to the above proposal within 72-hours then I will 
> invoke Lazy Consensus and proceed to implement the above proposal.
> 
> Thanks,
> Carl
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] Maven Repo Release of Java UNO Jar Files

[Dave Fisher]

Hi,

This is great work.

I'll note that the apidocs should be bundled into the website. See 
www.openoffice.org/AOI/docs/Java/ref/overview-summary.html.

Thanks,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 11, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> 
> I have no idea how much ceremony is needed for this.  Let's see what others 
> have to say.
> 
> Thanks for the recreation of the JavaDocs.
> 
> I think the lazy consensus could work.  It is a para-/quasi-distribution 
> employing already-released source.
> 
> In a way, you are the distribution manager here (hesitating to use Release in 
> the formal ASF sense).  I think we'll support whatever you do, so long as you 
> allow enough time and you keep it in the open as is already your practice.
> 
> One thing to consider is to leave enough breadcrumbs so that another 
> committer could duplicate what you have done.  I don't think that needs to be 
> concurrent, but is desirable while it is fresh.  (I say this without having 
> looked to see whatever you already have in this regard.)  This would make 
> this activity sustainable and also give you a way to mentor a newcomer doing 
> it at a future time.
> 
> Bottom line: Thanks for taking this on and doing everything that makes this 
> an accountable activity.  This is awesome work, Carl.
> 
> - Dennis
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Carl Marcum [mailto:cmar...@apache.org]
>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 04:03
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Maven Repo Release of Java UNO Jar Files
>> 
>> I have updated the Maven bundles with sources from AOO412 tag.
>> 
>> I re-created the javadocs from them because I couldn't find complete
>> docs in the SDK.
>> 
>> If everyone agrees we do not need a vote, how to proceed?
>> 
>> I could do a new lazy consensus topic until the end of next week to give
>> everyone time to look at them.
>> 
>> 
>> [1]
>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapacheopenoffice-
>> 1010/
>> 
>> [2]
>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapacheopenoffice-
>> 1011/
>> 
>> [3]
>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapacheopenoffice-
>> 1012/
>> 
>> [4]
>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapacheopenoffice-
>> 1013/
>> 
>> [5]
>> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapacheopenoffice-
>> 1014/
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Carl
>> 
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Re: OpenOffice and SourceForge: cruel wedding

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Roberto,

Is it possible for SourceForge to implement an active blocking if any ad that 
has "Office" or "OpenOffice" anywhere in the content?

I understand there are technical challenges. If that is difficult is it 
possible to simply block all ads?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 7, 2016, at 9:19 AM, Roberto Galoppini  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for heads up, both the account and its creatives have been blocked.
> 
> Roberto
> 
> 2016-01-07 15:38 GMT+01:00 FR web forum :
> 
>> 
>> Today, we have 2 users that have pay for a fake OpenOffice2015
>> 
>> 
>> https://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l=Cqhy-1neOVt6KL-WpiQackZzAAYfp7MoH34WD-LgC1MrWdxABIIyB2hdg-4GAgLAKoAGp7IrZA8gBAeACAKgDAcgDmwSqBPsBT9D93xyCmQFS_5cpebROSJIQQYhzPjW-d8gS6i5e9e6WcA9njfDOVKAw8-SrAE-m1FAWOPwK7I8kJLuzeW18mmM3gOHS1aSw4C6NYt0wS9AKBjIPEo_getXfGxWWSaHMgh8Xq80OerSeu1x7X9o0SkdbYCBdCkfTipVtmML8em6ClO-YlXOwZQCyaAfDexZH-XvEUA5LfIu3rNFvn2B7AgfcRm9BBQ9Y1Ws7O_TN38v09G1YWLj9LSzfKWZiCJ3xbHztJJPsC1xQfhsfp5Wfc_aSOAMj5hR1OzHdfsJ0L9mW4DQvcaunuhh53UgHQJwICQwS32fUA_Lo7SLgBAGAB7-T9SaoB6a-G9gHAQ=1=AOD64_0CRVAtU-eX-IKwATP1aS0yl-nOBg=ca-pub-4006818487458500=27=263=22=2=0=144=http://opf2.fisseef.com/fr%3Futm_campaign%3Dopenoffice2%26utm_source%3Dgoogle
>> 
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Re: OpenOffice and SourceForge: cruel wedding

[Dave Fisher]

The choice to go with sourceforge was not about stats. OpenOffice binaries are 
quite substantial. There was concern about if all the Apache mirrors could 
handle the load.

Patience! Let's see what Roberto has to say. SourceForge has been generous.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 7, 2016, at 11:36 PM, Jan Høydahl <jan@cominvent.com> wrote:
> 
> Apache’s mirrors already have the binaries, and should handle the load. Are 
> we afraid of losing DL stats, is that why we stick with SF?
> 
> --
> Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
> Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com
> 
>> 8. jan. 2016 kl. 04.46 skrev Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>:
>> 
>> Hi Roberto,
>> 
>> Is it possible for SourceForge to implement an active blocking if any ad 
>> that has "Office" or "OpenOffice" anywhere in the content?
>> 
>> I understand there are technical challenges. If that is difficult is it 
>> possible to simply block all ads?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 7, 2016, at 9:19 AM, Roberto Galoppini <roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for heads up, both the account and its creatives have been blocked.
>>> 
>>> Roberto
>>> 
>>> 2016-01-07 15:38 GMT+01:00 FR web forum <ooofo...@free.fr>:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Today, we have 2 users that have pay for a fake OpenOffice2015
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l=Cqhy-1neOVt6KL-WpiQackZzAAYfp7MoH34WD-LgC1MrWdxABIIyB2hdg-4GAgLAKoAGp7IrZA8gBAeACAKgDAcgDmwSqBPsBT9D93xyCmQFS_5cpebROSJIQQYhzPjW-d8gS6i5e9e6WcA9njfDOVKAw8-SrAE-m1FAWOPwK7I8kJLuzeW18mmM3gOHS1aSw4C6NYt0wS9AKBjIPEo_getXfGxWWSaHMgh8Xq80OerSeu1x7X9o0SkdbYCBdCkfTipVtmML8em6ClO-YlXOwZQCyaAfDexZH-XvEUA5LfIu3rNFvn2B7AgfcRm9BBQ9Y1Ws7O_TN38v09G1YWLj9LSzfKWZiCJ3xbHztJJPsC1xQfhsfp5Wfc_aSOAMj5hR1OzHdfsJ0L9mW4DQvcaunuhh53UgHQJwICQwS32fUA_Lo7SLgBAGAB7-T9SaoB6a-G9gHAQ=1=AOD64_0CRVAtU-eX-IKwATP1aS0yl-nOBg=ca-pub-4006818487458500=27=263=22=2=0=144=http://opf2.fisseef.com/fr%3Futm_campaign%3Dopenoffice2%26utm_source%3Dgoogle
>>>> 
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Re: Apache POI, .xlsx export filter, and missing used cell iteration APIs in Calc

[Dave Fisher]

Hi,

I am really glad you are looking into POI. I have been waiting for interest. I 
am on both the POI and OpenOffice PMCs. The support for each Office document 
format varies with the people volunteering. Excel is the most complete format 
with support for reading, writing and calculation. There is even a low memory 
model. There is new support for Visio. Text extraction is a popular use of POI. 
If you are using Apache Solr and Apache Tika you are also using POI.

I recommend that you take a look at POI's unit tests for OOXML use cases. This 
is due to how POI creates a lite version of the OOXML jar. Any object used in a 
unit test is included.

If you have POI questions you are likely to get answers on either the user or 
the dev mailing lists.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 24, 2015, at 3:56 AM, Carl Marcum  wrote:
> 
>> On 12/23/2015 09:41 PM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Carl Marcum  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Damjan,
>>> 
>>> Have you looked at any of the Groovy XML parsers and builders?
>> Only now, briefly. Seems to have a nice API, reminiscent of JAXB.
>> 
>> 
>>> Also, where can I find info on the XLSX format without paying for the ISO
>>> standard?
>> http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-376.htm seems
>> to have it available for free download. I haven't downloaded it and don't
>> intend to, as I don't even remotely deal with OOXML or XML in this filter -
>> Apache POI does that, which is the only reason I am trying this.
> 
> Okay Now I understand.
> 
> Thank you for the link !
> 
>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Carl
>> Thank you
>> Damjan
> 
> 
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Re: [LAZY CONSENSUS] Changes to local "code use" wording

[Dave Fisher]

Sorry for the top post. It really is not as mysterious as it seems.

The legal-discuss@ list is where we should go for clarifications if this 
community has trouble with specific answers.

The main emphasis about the voluntary contribution policy is about code 
contributed to and distributed by this project within our source code releases.

If code is contributed then there are various ways the contribution should be 
handled. In general patches contributed via bugzilla are assumed to be safely 
AL v2,0. All project committers have signed a Contributors License Agreement. 
Larger contributions like Oracle's and IBM's go through an SGA process and 
gene...@incubator.apache.org is involved either as a incubating project or as 
ip clearance.  In all cases there is some oversight and public record. Anyone 
can subscribe to the commit mailing list.

If part of the source archive or a commit is called into question then the 
question is dealt with by evaluating the facts. The PMC has removed 
inappropriate contributions. These discussions are private and have occurred.

We always need to discuss specific examples in the project first.

Adding project dependencies is a different question. In that case license and 
use are more determinant. The boundary between operating environment may come 
into play. Answers on legal-discuss do vary and LGPL system libraries on Linux 
may be allowed, depending on the case.

We need to be able to interpret here first. We benefit when the community 
perceives  correct ip requirements for contribution.

Regards,
Dave 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 29, 2015, at 6:33 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:

>> -Original Message-
>> From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 10:00
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [LAZY CONSENSUS] Changes to local "code use" wording
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12/29/2015 09:05 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>> The TL;DR:
>>> 
>>> Yes, the license page describes what must be reflected in LICENSE
>>> and NOTICE files for 3rd party software, and something about the
>>> software files too.
>>> 
>>> It does not address how such software comes into a project's
>>> hands.  It is not about acceptance of such software.  No
>>> precedent about that should be read into the policy on how to
>>> satisfy the third-party license and conditions for notices.
>>> 
>>> - Dennis
>> 
>> If we go back to the acceptable licenses for distribution with ALv2
>> -- http://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html
>> 
>> Combined with the instructions for using these "acceptable"
>> products/ portions, why is it not sufficient to accept that the code
>> came into the project's hands by virtue of the license used for the
>> software? In other words, if an author/developer licenses code with
>> a particular license, is it not the intention of that developer to
>> have the the product used in accordance with the license? And, if
>> that is the case, why are any additional requests needed?
> [orcmid] 
> 
> I suggest you ask this specific question on the dev@ community.apache.org 
> list or the general@ incubator.apache.org list where you will find more about 
> the notion of "willing contribution."  This gets asked regularly, even about 
> using ALv2 code from other Apache Projects.
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> 
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Re: [REPORT] Issue Clearance Quality + Technical Debt

[Dave Fisher]

In line

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: donaldupre . [mailto:donaldu...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 04:51
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; orc...@apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [REPORT] Issue Clearance Quality + Technical Debt
>> 
>> Very interesting, thank you.
>> Perhaps the reduced activity is an indication for the saturation state
>> of
>> the project (i.e. all the possible bugs and features already exist in
>> Bugzilla)?
> [orcmid] 
> 
> That's an interesting idea.  
> 
> I don't know how to test that with the data that we have.  

I concur with the idea. That the saturation point has to do with overall 
activity level. When the level of Contribution dropped after November 2014 
technical debt accelerated. Compare the overall commit / bugzilla resolution 
levels with number of contributors multiplied by the average size of the 
contribution.


> 
> 
>> Is it possible to compare this information with other office suites?
> [orcmid] 
> 
> I don't know.  I haven't looked for such information and I am not aware of 
> any form it might be available in.  
> 
> Considering how different projects can be, I am not certain what lessons 
> might transfer from one to another.  
> 
> Do you envision how having such information would be helpful in assessing the 
> effectiveness of this project's handling of reported issues and how that is 
> reflected in improvements to the product?

An interesting comparison might include counting the the size of contributions 
of those who are paid by their day job to work on the project. A count of 
students and retirees would be interesting metrics as well.

Strict development comparisons are only fair to a point. For example the forums 
are hosted by the ASF and the volunteers and community answer all questions 
about any part of the OpenOffice / ODF ecosystem.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> 
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> [BCC to Project Management Committee and users@ oo.a.o]
>>> 
>>> SUMMARY
>>> 
>>> The top-level analysis of Bugzilla issue handling has been completed
>> for
>>> all issues opened on the project through December 31, 2015.
>>> 
>>> The complete tabulation is in the PDF document at
>>  [ ... ]
> 
> 
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Re: [ApacheCon NA] Client Track

[Dave Fisher]

Some ideas:

(1) A panel or talk comparing Flex, Cordova, and OpenOffice. There are many 
levels to compare. Technology. All three are "code/community" contributions to 
the ASF from major companies: Adobe, Oracle and IBM. Cordova is still a 
corporate product as Phonegap. Each has "pushed" the ASF in some ways. Flex 
with much less friction compared to Cordova who wanted to do continually 
releases, etc.

(2) AOO Application and new tooling around UNO, etc.

(3) ?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 5, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  
> wrote:
> 
> It is interesting how Cordova and Flex are different, but are concerned with 
> client-facing technologies.
> 
> Apache OpenOffice is probably the most heavily-client project that the ASF 
> has, and Corinthia, had it endured, would be somewhere between these two 
> kinds of client worlds.
> 
> I can imagine an AOO-related contribution to a client-side track at ApacheCon 
> NA.  For example, one could address the challenges of the changing faces of 
> platforms and cloud-supported apps, for example, perhaps even a panel 
> discussion.
> 
> There is always the question of how AOO could pivot to this new world of 
> ecosystems, app stores, and distributed operation.  It raises the question of 
> whether and how it should provide tooling and reference implementations but 
> not deliver integrated solutions, leaving that to downstream consumers, while 
> sustaining the desktop-exclusive client pretty much as it is, working from 
> standard file formats.
> 
> ApacheCon NA (North Americal) is in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, on 
> May 11-13, 2016.
> 
> The instructions for submitting talk proposals are at 
> .
> 
> The deadline for initial proposals is in one week, Friday, February 12.
> 
> If a panel discussion format were proposed, all of the panelists need to be 
> identified in the proposal.
> 
> - Dennis
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Alex Harui [mailto:aha...@adobe.com]
>> Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 09:24
>> To: d...@community.apache.org
>> Subject: [ApacheCon NA] Client Track
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> What is the appropriate list for discussing possible tracks for
>> ApacheCon?
>> 
>> Some Apache projects, like Flex and Cordova, are more oriented to
>> clients,
>> applications and front-ends than server-side, backend code.  For this
>> year's ApacheCon in Vancouver, Flex and Cordova want to propose a track
>> for client-oriented talks.  Are other projects interested?  If so,
>> please
>> propose a talk for
>> the client track and let us know to look for it.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -Alex
>> Apache Flex
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PROPOSAL][DEVTOOLS] Stage Java BootstrapConnector to Maven Repository

[Dave Fisher]

I think the artifacts should be org.apache.openoffice. Artifacts using 
org.openoffice are not likely to be within policy, but if issued would also be 
understood to be from this project. A proper release is required including the 
source for these jars.

Vote is 3 +1 from PMC and a majority. Convention is that -1 is taken seriously 
if it has true technical merit.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2016, at 1:39 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:

>> -Original Message-
>> From: Carl Marcum [mailto:cmar...@apache.org]
>> Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2016 12:09
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL][DEVTOOLS] Stage Java BootstrapConnector to Maven
>> Repository
>> 
>> Hi Dennis,
>> 
>> comments below..
>> 
>> On 01/30/2016 12:17 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> [ ... ]
>>> I am copying the PMC on this and requesting that all discussion be
>> here, and not there, so all committers and interested parties can
>> contribute to the discussion.  We would also need to know that at least
>> 3 PMC members are prepared to carry out what is required for casting a
>> binding release vote.
>>> 
>>> While we wrestle with this, I request that you suspend the Groovy UNO
>> Extension discussion for now and we continue this for the simple case of
>> the Java Bootstrap Connector.  I am assuming that this is the simpler
>> case to work through a release process if we determine that we need to
>> do so.
>>> 
>>>  - Dennis
>> 
>> [cmarcum]
>> 
>> No problem.
>> I suspended the Groovy UNO extension proposal.
>> 
>> My hope was to do this through the project but I understand the
>> procedures and how this could cause more work for others than necessary
>> since it's only a small developer tool and not a primary project
>> artifact.
>> 
>> I am more than willing to submit this individually if it makes more
>> sense.
>> 
>> In a larger sense this conversation could also apply to the future
>> builds of the AOO-Netbeans plugin that is made available through
>> NetBeans.org.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Carl
> [orcmid] 
> 
> Thanks Carl.  Let's wait a few days for others to chime in.
> 
> I would like to see this as a project release rather than a personal one 
> based on AOO code, especially since I think everything needed is in the AOO 
> code base.
> 
> The bigger issue is the kind of review that is required, and the extra effort 
> in preparing a release candidate, etc.
> 
> I also think that you are creating a good model and process for spin-outs of 
> useful components from the AOO code base.  So this is worth digging into for 
> that reason alone.
> 
> - Dennis
> 
> 
>> 
 -Original Message-
 From: Carl Marcum [mailto:cmar...@apache.org]
 Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2016 06:42
 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
 Subject: [PROPOSAL][DEVTOOLS] Stage Java BootstrapConnector to Maven
 Repository
 
 Hi All,
 
 I would like to create Maven bundles of the source, classes, and
>> javadoc
 of the recently added BootstrapConnector  [1] and stage them on the
 Apache Nexus Maven Repository using groupId "org.openoffice" so this
 would be from the project.
 
 If the project consensus is that a VOTE is necessary I will call for
>> one
 after staging and prior to publishing, or if not, I will do another
 PROPOSAL for release.
 
 This jar allows bootstrapping the office by passing a string
 representing the path to the office executable to the bootstrap
>> method.
 
 This code has been available for download from the Forum since 2008
>> [2].
 
 I have obtained permission from the author to use the code by our
 project and under the AL 2.0 license and documented it with the AOO
>> PMC.
 
 If there are no objections to the above proposal by midnight GMT
 Wednesday February 3rd,  then I will invoke Lazy Consensus and
>> proceed
 to implement the above proposal.
 
 Another option to this is that I publish them as an individual with a
 different groupId if this is preferred.
 
 [1]
 https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/devtools/bootstrap-
 connector/trunk/
 
 [2] https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2520
 
 Thanks,
 Carl
 
 
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> 
> 

Re: Open Office Writer UTTER , UTTER Rubbish (or not)

[Dave Fisher]

Darren,

OpenOffice has a long, long history. Not as long as you or me or many others 
here have been programming. I think you might be surprised at the number of 
decades of some of the generous contributors to AOO.

If you have the relevant C++ experience, the source code and build instructions 
are available.

Patches welcome!

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 13, 2016, at 6:40 AM, Darren Myers  wrote:
> 
> Max
> 
> I am a developer in BMC / People soft  applications, 32 years and 4 months  
> overall experience..
> 
> I shouldn't have to delete a profile and re-create it and go through that 
> pain in order to get the most basic function working. 
> Open office need to fix this MAJOR problem.  It was an issue for users in 
> 4.1.1 and still in 4.1.2
> 
> However it really doesn't matter now, I simply opened my MS doc up online and 
> MICROSOFT! allows you to edit and SPELL CHECK. 
> Lets be honest and truthful here, Open office is inferior, and by all 
> accounts the worst freeware I have ever installed or used.
> 
> 
> 
>> Subject: Re: Open Office Writer UTTER , UTTER Rubbish (or not)
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; us...@openoffice.apache.org; 
>> myers_dar...@hotmail.com
>> From: max.merb...@gmx.de
>> Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 14:27:50 +0100
>> 
>> Hello Darren,
>> 
>> of course it's got a spell check. And the spell check works. I've been 
>> using OpenOffice for years and I never had that problem. If something on 
>> OpenOffice doesn't work, delete the folder "OpenOffice" in 
>> [user]/appdata/roaming and restart OpenOffice. No need to be rude, by 
>> the way. (and I've been a computer user for 28 years and I can't count 
>> how many times I've seen users blaming the software for their own 
>> mistake when something didn't work as desired)
>> 
>> Max
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 13.03.2016 um 14:14 schrieb Darren Myers:
>>> Hello
>>> 
>>> Can someone please pass this comment on to the relevant incompetent 
>>> developer who created openoffice writer..
>>> 
>>> It has the a really obvious problem with the program...
>>> 
>>> IT HAS NO BLOODY  SPELL CHECK!
>>> 
>>> Seriously I ask you this, what IDIOT created a doc writer without the most 
>>> fundamental function
>>> 
>>> Even when installing 4.1.2 it says its selected , however NO, it just 
>>> doesn't work..
>>> 
>>> I will be pulling my donations and putting money into Microsoft, where 
>>> things DO work!! albeit I will have to pay.
> 

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Re: [REPORT] AOO 4.1.2 Deployment and Take-Up through 2016Q2

[Dave Fisher]

In a funny way:

224 is SS. Is that Hitler's group?
238 is St Helena. Is that Napoleon?

If it isn't funny to you. Apologies.

238 "countries" is impressive. Are any missed?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 18, 2016, at 4:27 PM, toki  wrote:
> 
>> On 16/07/2016 20:00, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>> 
>> It turns out that downloads-by-destination (to within IP-address analysis) 
>> is easy to get.
> 
> That makes for some very interesting results.
> 
> jonathon
> 
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Re: Planning for emergency releases

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Marcus,

Until AOO can provide a simple auto-update that includes patches then from a 
user perspective Patricia is completely correct.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 5, 2016, at 2:20 PM, Marcus  wrote:
> 
> Am 08/05/2016 10:43 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>> This is mainly a summary of opinions I've already expressed on
>> security@. The discussion does not actually involve anything that needs
>> to be confidential, so it should be taking place on dev@ instead.
>> 
>> This is controversial - I expect replies disagreeing with my views. The
>> point of this thread is to hash out the diverging opinions and reach a
>> consensus:
>> 
>> [...]
> 
> I don't expect many of this kind of issues. Nevertheless, I don't want to 
> install everytime a complete new release for a fix that is related to 1% (?) 
> of the AOO installation. For me it would be like taking a sledgehammer to 
> crack a nut.
> 
> Furthermore, what needs to be done on our side:
> 
> - more testing if the application is still working when we build every
>  byte new from scratch.
> - upload the files of hundreads of megabytes to SourceForge
> - the connected mirrors need to sync them all
> - earliest after x days the new release is distributed and the downlod
>  is actually working
> - agreement how to increase the version number. Everytime x.y.z+1 just
>  for a little fix?
> 
> I hate this comparison but OK. Microsoft has a similar big office suite. But 
> I've never seen a new release with just a fix. They always provide (more or 
> less) little patch files. Sure, they will be searched, downloaded and 
> installed automtically, so the user doesn't need to do much. But still, they 
> are little files.
> 
> Or compare it with a car: You have a little scratch in your paint. Do you 
> really request a new paint for the complete car in the painter garage?
> 
> So, for me this sounds not smart. ;-)
> 
> Better would be really to deliver selected patched files.
> 
> Sure for this we need to:
> - straighten the build process
> - provide a smarter install routine than just a detailed readme text
> - create new separate download webpages for the fixes with different
>  content - at least for the describing text
> 
> My 2 ct.
> 
> Marcus
> 
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Re: Draft report

[Dave Fisher]

Hey Patricia this went to OpenOffice and not River.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 6, 2016, at 11:29 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> 
> Here is a draft of the August 2016 board report. As always, suggested changes 
> are welcome.
> 
> ==
> 
> ## Description:
>  - Apache River software provides a standards-compliant JINI service.
> 
> ## Issues:
> 
>  - There are no issues requiring board attention at this time. Although the 
> troubles discussed last quarter persist, there is on-going discussion of 
> possible future directions.
> 
> ## Activity:
> 
>  - There has been little activity.
> 
> ## Health report:
> 
>  - The technical and people problems discussed last quarter have not yet been 
> solved, but neither have they killed the project. In the last two months 
> there have been threads on d...@river.apache.org, involving a total of 6 
> people, discussing how to support languages other than Java and how to take 
> River in an IoT direction.
> 
> ## PMC changes:
> 
>  - Currently 13 PMC members.
>  - No new PMC members added in the last 3 months
>  - Last PMC addition was Bryan Thompson on Sun Aug 30 2015
> 
> ## Committer base changes:
> 
>  - Currently 15 committers.
>  - Dan Creswell was added as a committer on Mon Jun 20 2016
> 
> ## Releases:
> 
>  - Last release was river-jtsk-2.2.3 on Sat Feb 20 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Read to the bottom. Don't mistake my opposition to the following statement as 
opposition to a way forward to funding of a third party.

> and one more note:
> Our PMC is a PMC of an Apache project and it must be loyal to the ASF and the 
> OpenOffice project.
> If, however, there are single points that are contentious, then the PMC must 
> first represent the interests of OpenOffice.

Not true. I am a Member of the Apache Software Foundation. That is just like a 
shareholder. For me that comes first. Then come PMC memberships and AOO is but 
one of mine.

In all this discussion please keep in mind that the ASF is a nonprofit and must 
not play favorites with anyone whether individual or corporation.

The ASF will protect its trademarks and expects that PMC does so.

If by negotiation there was some way the AOO project proposed funding for third 
parties to the ASF many questions would need to be answered including keeping 
the arrangement open to others, allocation of funds, auditing etc. This would 
be expensive. So, you can see that it just does not happen.

A clear separation between the third party and the ASF and the project MUST be 
kept.

I am ALL for a third party. Any developers and other employees/volunteers from 
that group who demonstrate merit here would have my support for committer 
status.

A third party might have a distribution powered by Apache OpenOffice. That 
could solicit. The project could decide to use a Powered By verification as a 
way to validate the downstream.

Something like that could work. It is close to the status quo.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 20, 2017, at 3:38 AM, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> 
>> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com] 
> 
>> But in my eyes we need a way to ensure project health and 
>> turn towards 
>> the community we have. We were last year at the edge of project 
>> retirement. We are slowly fighting our way out by pure 
>> voluntary work of 
>> people that belive in the market name Open Office.
> 
> +1
> 
>> I think LibreOffice are to a certain degree correct. The ASF is not 
>> capable to do the Project Open Office at this Point. The structure of 
>> Libre Office is a much more healthy one for the kind of Project 
>> Libre/Open Office is.
> 
> Yes, unfortunately, the relevant criticism of LO is correct.
> 
> But one thing should be quite clear:
> The solution is not to join LO, but the solution is: we need to improve 
> ourselves.
> 
>> However I think we can build a similar powerfull structure if 
>> not more 
>> powerfull. At the same time we must walk in Sync with the ASF.
> 
> +1
> 
> 
> Peter has said a lot about what I find right.
> 
> Likewise, I believe that it is necessary to use time to clarify these things, 
> even if this time is initially missing for the programming.
> The point is, the better structures will improve our efficiency in the long 
> run.
> 
> 
> and one more note:
> Our PMC is a PMC of an Apache project and it must be loyal to the ASF and the 
> OpenOffice project.
> If, however, there are single points that are contentious, then the PMC must 
> first represent the interests of OpenOffice.
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> Jörg
> 
> 
> 
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> 

Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Go ahead, but you are missing my point. Managing money like you propose is not 
something Apache Members want to do.

Having a good working relationship with a third party is something the ASF does 
all the time.

The AOO project could find a way to work out a program that would serve to make 
a relationship that benefits the public. Call your org A. If an org B came 
along that met the criteria of our relationship with B then they would get the 
same benefit. This is expansion.

It could be that third parties meet a standard of open source, Apache licensed 
code that is always contributed back to AOO for us to choose to incorporate.

We already have groups that are like this.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 20, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Peter Kovacs <legi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hmm, the discussion moves in a wrong direction, with wrong assumptions. I am 
> against a status quo solution. For me status quo directly transfers to 
> nothing happens.
> 
> I am not talking of creating one Investor that provides Money. I aim at 
> mobilizing as much as possible Open Office users has as Investors.
> 
> What I propose is a open crowd infrastructure. I do not believe Apache is 
> capable of this, today. I do believe this is a near future, game changing 
> model in general.
> 
> 
> For me the model should respect:
> 
> # Fundraising itself is neutral (i.e. funds are not raised for developers but 
> for tasks / actions)
> 
> # nonprofit (Funds are not ment to provide any profit to the organisation 
> itself and are bound by activity. investor decided on.)
> 
> # Openess of the Infra (other Apache Project have acces to the same infra if 
> they whish.)
> 
> # Openess in the community ( the funds on a task is open to all commiters if 
> they manage to satisfy the requirement for a payout.)
> 
> 
> This is just a rough outline, so you understand the direction (vision) I am 
> thinking. Also please note that a lot question have to be answered. This is 
> maybe 1% of a business plan.
> 
> I try to make a graph on the weekend. However I am not sure if I manage this 
> on the weekend. (Thats why I have asked Raphael to give his vision).
> 
> 
> I do not see any reason why this cannot be done by Apache itseslf. Also One 
> or more 3rd Party supplier can provide the Infra in full or in parts. For me 
> this question is an issue we need to deal with at a later stage. And I stress 
> this point: It needs to happen in sync with Apache. A crowd funding community 
> is a dragon. And as Dragons are, they can be difficult in times. You do well 
> to be prepared.
> 
> I hope all are at least courious and support this with their hopes and fears. 
> It would be so powerfull if we can make this work.
> 
> 
> Stay agile, keep Chalanging
> 
> Peter
> 
>> On 20.01.2017 22:56, Dave Fisher wrote:
>> Hi -
>> 
>> Read to the bottom. Don't mistake my opposition to the following statement 
>> as opposition to a way forward to funding of a third party.
>> 
>>> and one more note:
>>> Our PMC is a PMC of an Apache project and it must be loyal to the ASF and 
>>> the OpenOffice project.
>>> If, however, there are single points that are contentious, then the PMC 
>>> must first represent the interests of OpenOffice.
>> Not true. I am a Member of the Apache Software Foundation. That is just like 
>> a shareholder. For me that comes first. Then come PMC memberships and AOO is 
>> but one of mine.
>> 
>> In all this discussion please keep in mind that the ASF is a nonprofit and 
>> must not play favorites with anyone whether individual or corporation.
>> 
>> The ASF will protect its trademarks and expects that PMC does so.
>> 
>> If by negotiation there was some way the AOO project proposed funding for 
>> third parties to the ASF many questions would need to be answered including 
>> keeping the arrangement open to others, allocation of funds, auditing etc. 
>> This would be expensive. So, you can see that it just does not happen.
>> 
>> A clear separation between the third party and the ASF and the project MUST 
>> be kept.
>> 
>> I am ALL for a third party. Any developers and other employees/volunteers 
>> from that group who demonstrate merit here would have my support for 
>> committer status.
>> 
>> A third party might have a distribution powered by Apache OpenOffice. That 
>> could solicit. The project could decide to use a Powered By verification as 
>> a way to validate the downstream.
>> 
>> Something like that could work. It is close to the status quo.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone

Re: Community building: give our User a chance to contribute!

[Dave Fisher]

A third party like a Team OpenOffice under a name that avoids users confusion 
with Apache OpenOffice could raise money and fund development as a separate, 
independent entity. That's what IBM did. The entity just needs to be careful 
about guaranteeing the work will be taken by Apache OpenOffice.

It really is that simple now. I suppose it was much more confusing while the 
project was in the Incubator and all email threads became so emotionally 
charged and frenetic.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Raphael Bircher  wrote:
> 
> Am .01.2017, 11:00 Uhr, schrieb Jörg Schmidt :
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>>> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
>> 
>>> We see in Star citizen how mighty crowd can be.
>>> 
>>> Maybe a platform would be great where people can pledge money
>>> for something
>>> they need.
>>> If the needed budget is reached, payed developers implement it.
>>> Or we could do it as a bonus system. You pledge money on a
>>> bug/enhancement,
>>> if the bug gets included in the release the developers get a payout.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> This is just an idea. I am not sure if we can do business
>>> within the ASF or
>>> if we have to found a 3rd party entity for this.
>>> If we have to go 3rd party I prefer a cooperative society as
>>> a legal form.
>>> https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/social-economy/cooperative
>>> s/european-cooperative-society_de
>> 
>> You are basically right, but let me give the following information.
>> 
>> Team OpenOffice was such a project. The participants were mainly experienced 
>> OpenOffice developers from SUN Microsystems.
> I think, the real problem there was this text 
> http://www.opensourceforbusiness.info/openoffice-org-droht-das-aus/
> 
>> 
>> See:
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20120107200702/http://teamopenoffice.org/de/the-team-de.html
>> 
>> But Apache made a front against this project and so it was no chance. The 
>> only short-term result was "White Label Office", see for example:
>> http://www.chip.de/downloads/White-Label-Office_53492033.html
>> 
>> I do not want to criticize one-sidedly, here is a different view:
>> http://www.golem.de/1112/88663.html
>> 
>> But Apache is the larger party and it would be the task of Apache to 
>> recognize opportunities and bundle forces.
>> 
>> This is unfortunately the truth and it is a central problem for OpenOffice.
> 
> The only restriction the ASF have is, that you can not collect money in the 
> name of a project as a third party. And Apache itself does not found 
> defelopment.
> 
> But you can collect money for Features or major bugfixes as a third party. 
> This model is vor sure easyer to setup, if you have some big company who put 
> a load of money to it. In my mind is a collaboration with Source Forge. They 
> rich a load of OpenOffice users.
> 
> Regards Raphael
> -- 
> Mein Blog: https://raphaelbircher.blogspot.ch
> 
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

Really? Substantial work is done on list to improve the build process for 
Windows and you don't think about mentioning that?

Someone who has a Mac and time could help with  that build!

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton  
> wrote:
> 
> We all have these questions, Phil.  What we are awaiting is someone to 
> provide an actionable answer.
> 
> There is nothing to do about the FUD (as is already remarked elsewhere on the 
> What would ... thread).  That's a waste of energy.  What we need is energy 
> put into having an AOO that serves its community.
> 
> Patricia and Marcus have already taken some steps and there is a call for 
> volunteers on the download page.  
> 
> We need people to step up.  The folks we have are already spinning more 
> plates than they have arms and legs.
> 
> - Dennis
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 08:00
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
>> 
>> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
>> what
>> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want
>> this
>> project to
>> continue moving forward.
>> 
>> What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we
>> could
>> be
>> working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a
>> positive
>> direction?
>> 
>> How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
>> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
>> etc...
>> 
>> 
>> Phil
>> ~~~
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> 
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jim,

I seem to recall that you made an offer to help with Mac builds. I know you 
helped during incubation. Is your offer still valid?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 6:59 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> 
>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
>>> 
>>> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de]
>> 
>>> Patricia, we are still discussing. We are balancing reasons, 
>>> advantages
>>> and disadvantages, for different solutions. There is no decision made.
>>> 
>>> And more and more I believe, it was a good idea to start that 
>>> discussion
>>> on a public list. So everything is transparent.
>>> 
>>> I like the debian Social Contract and point 3 is:
>>> 
>>> "We will not hide problems"
>> 
>> This is a reasonable approach for a project which is surrounded by friends. 
>> 
>> It is not necessarily a good concept for a project that has been cleaved by 
>> third
>> parties and whose aim is to destroy it. When the TDF had only had the 
>> intention to
>> make OpenOffice independent of Oracle, they would never have attacked AOO.
> 
> sorry, but I can't agree with that.
> 
> Will self-serving trolls contort what we say here to promote their
> own agendas? Sure. What we want is the *truth* to be out there,
> so when these trolls spew their FUD, the reality of the situation
> is there for others to read, and understand, and grok.
> 
> At the very least, if what you say is true, we can claim the
> high-ground. We should strive for that no matter what.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Awesome. These are the kinds of questions that should energize the project. 
Base is a problem, but there are many Java bridges that can be plugged if we 
open up the configuration.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 2, 2016, at 11:40 AM, Phillip Rhodes  wrote:

>> If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you
>> need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related
>> projects like LibreOffice cannot?
> 
> That's a good question.  The one obvious thing, which matters to some
> people, but not others, is "be licensed under the ALv2".
> 
> From a feature standpoint, I don't think there is anything we can do that
> somebody else couldn't do - in principle.   However, different projects can
> evolve in different directions based on the choices made by the
> developers.  What I'd like to see AOO do a bit (and I hope to help with
> some of this) is to develop tighter integration with the "big data" world,
> which largely revolves around the ASF anyway.  This obviously applies
> mainly to Calc.  But there, I'd like to see easier and more direct ways to
> share data between Calc and, say, a Spark cluster, or Impala, etc.   I'd
> also like to see more in the way of accessing external API's and using 3rd
> party languages like R.  Integration with Arrow is something that could be
> interesting.   And something that was talked about a while back, but I
> think went largely unfulfilled, was the idea of adding more "social"
> integration into AOO.  I'd still like to see us do some things there.
> 
> Now if any of that came to fruition, it's possible that other projects like
> LO might simply choose to integrate those features into their codebase
> (which they're welcome to do).  But maybe they'll decide their interests
> are elsewhere and choose not to.  Who knows?
> 
> 
> Phil


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

Then you should give the project every encouragement to get the build process 
properly prepared.

Our outgoing PMC chair should consider the same.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Marvin Humphrey  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2016-09-02 09:43 (-0700), Pedro Giffuni  wrote: 
>> 
>> At this time I am unsure what the Board wants from the project.
> 
> My primary concern as a Board member is that the project respond promptly and
> effectively to security reports.
> 
> Marvin Humphrey
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 5:37 PM, toki <toki.kant...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 02/09/2016 20:12, Dave Fisher wrote:
>> 
>> I disagree with consumer vs corporate. Individuals have benefited greatly 
>> from all of the free projects like HTTPD,
> 
> HTTPD is a Daemon, run for websites --- corporate, not individuals.

A question what is the procurement process for individuals, governments, NGOs 
and corporations for any Apache software? Non-existent.

This helps all of the public.

Individuals are benefited. Any Jane Q Public can put together a website and 
service for next to no software cost. It's free and communities are willing to 
help. 

> 
>> tomcat,
> 
> Web server. Again, corporate, not individuals.
> 
>> poi
> 
> This is a set of Java Libraries. Again corporate, not individuals
> 
>> Tika,
> 
> Content detection software. Again corporate, not individuals
> 
>> Solr,
> Enterprise search platform. Again, corporate not individuals
> 
>> Lucene,
> 
> Information retrieval software library.  Again, corporate not individuals.
> 
>> We are striving to be a community and not a marriage. The bar to enter or 
>> exit a community is much different.
> 
> The problem with parables, as that the audience more often that not
> fails to understand their meaning.

Or they might reject there application.

Regards,
Dave


> 
> jonathon
> 
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

Thank you for the initiative.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 7:00 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> 
>> On 9/3/2016 2:07 AM, Marcus wrote:
>> Am 09/03/2016 09:47 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>>> Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that
>>> happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators.
>> 
>> that's the problem of time zones: You are always late when others have
>> already answered. ;-) So, if you need another moderator or want to
>> exchange one, then I would help.
> 
> It is more a consequence of my sense of urgency. I feel that the best
> way to deal with the "shutdown AOO" movement is to push the "AOO needs
> developers" message as immediately and strongly as possible.
> 
> Normally, I would have waited a few days for the moderator list to
> settle before filing the mailing list creation request, making time
> zones irrelevant.
> 
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

It works on VMware VHosts too.

Jim, wearing your VP, Legal Affairs hat do you know anyone at Apple that could 
help grant a special license from Apple?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically
> allows for it. And it works.
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes  wrote:
>> 
>> That's unfortunate.  And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
>> another
>> OS do they?
>> 
>> 
>> Phil
>> 
>> 
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
>>> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
>>> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
>>> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
>>> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>>> 
>>> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
>>> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
>>> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>>> 
>>> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
>>> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
>>> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
 
 Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
 hardware
 is PC based, running Linux.
 
 I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
 
 http://www.macincloud.com/
 
 Anybody have any experience with something like that?
 
 
 Phil
 
 
 This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
 
 On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:
 
 On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> 
> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
> 
> On your own hardware:
> 
> Repeat:
>  Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>  Fix the error messages you get;
>  Write notes about what you did;
>  Test the program functionality;
> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
> 
> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
> 
> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
> response to the "retirement" discussion?
> 
> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
> 
> jonathon
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Dave Fisher]

I don't have very much free time, but once MacOSX build instructions are 
rewritten and the process clean. I am willing to validate the instructions and 
each step on a fresh Mac. This would also put me a position to cast a binding 
vote on a release when that is ready.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 3:42 PM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, still VERY valid!
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jim,
>> 
>> I seem to recall that you made an offer to help with Mac builds. I know you 
>> helped during incubation. Is your offer still valid?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 6:59 AM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Jörg Schmidt <joe...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de]
>>>> 
>>>>> Patricia, we are still discussing. We are balancing reasons, 
>>>>> advantages
>>>>> and disadvantages, for different solutions. There is no decision made.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And more and more I believe, it was a good idea to start that 
>>>>> discussion
>>>>> on a public list. So everything is transparent.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I like the debian Social Contract and point 3 is:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "We will not hide problems"
>>>> 
>>>> This is a reasonable approach for a project which is surrounded by 
>>>> friends. 
>>>> 
>>>> It is not necessarily a good concept for a project that has been cleaved 
>>>> by third
>>>> parties and whose aim is to destroy it. When the TDF had only had the 
>>>> intention to
>>>> make OpenOffice independent of Oracle, they would never have attacked AOO.
>>> 
>>> sorry, but I can't agree with that.
>>> 
>>> Will self-serving trolls contort what we say here to promote their
>>> own agendas? Sure. What we want is the *truth* to be out there,
>>> so when these trolls spew their FUD, the reality of the situation
>>> is there for others to read, and understand, and grok.
>>> 
>>> At the very least, if what you say is true, we can claim the
>>> high-ground. We should strive for that no matter what.
>>> -
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Dennis,

I don't have objections to this topic, but I feel I need to make a few 
suggestions before this thread is either ignored or a confused mess.

(1) a long, official policy statement like this is best put into a wiki page 
where many can edit it and it can be an easy discussion and not a confused 
email mess that is started with something that is tl:dr. The maturity model was 
recently developed by the comdev participants on the wiki and email
Effectively. This document needs to be developed in the same way.

(2) why is this cross posted to private and DEV? To do so implies that there is 
some other non-open discussion in parallel. You and I have run into unexpected 
results from this strange cross posting practice of yours (hi Simon)

(3) I think that working towards being able to release rather than patch as 
Patricia has suggested is our best way to solve the security issue. The quick 
patch is not much faster and has been proven to be more of a challenge then 
kick starting the broken build process.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2016, at 4:37 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> 
> Here is what a careful retirement of Apache OpenOffice could look like.
> 
>  A. PERSPECTIVE
>  B. WHAT RETIREMENT COULD LOOK LIKE
> 1. Code Base
> 2. Downloads
> 3. Development Support
> 4. Public-Project Community Interfaces
> 5. Social Media Presence
> 6. Project Management Committee
> 7. Branding
> 
> A. PERSPECTIVE
> 
> I have regularly observed that the Apache OpenOffice project has limited 
> capacity for sustaining the project in an energetic manner.  It is also my 
> considered opinion that there is no ready supply of developers who have the 
> capacity, capability, and will to supplement the roughly half-dozen 
> volunteers holding the project together.  It doesn't matter what the reasons 
> for that might be.
> 
> The Apache Project Maturity Model,
> , 
> identifies the characteristics for which an Apache project is expected to 
> strive. 
> 
> Recently, some elements have been brought into serious question:
> 
> QU20: The project puts a very high priority on producing secure software.
> QU50: The project strives to respond to documented bug reports in a timely 
> manner.
> 
> There is also a litmus test which is kind of a red line.  That is for the 
> project to have a PMC capable of producing releases.  That means that there 
> are at least three available PMC members capable of building a functioning 
> binary from a release-candidate archive, and who do so in providing binding 
> votes to approve the release of that code.  
> 
> In the case of Apache OpenOffice, needing to disclose security 
> vulnerabilities for which there is no mitigation in an update has become a 
> serious issue.
> 
> In responses to concerns raised in June, the PMC is currently tasked by the 
> ASF Board to account for this inability and to provide a remedy.  An 
> indicator of the seriousness of the Board's concern is the PMC been requested 
> to report to the Board every month, starting in August, rather than 
> quarterly, the normal case.  One option for remedy that must be considered is 
> retirement of the project.  The request is for the PMC's consideration among 
> other possible options.  The Board has not ordered a solution. 
> 
> I cannot prediction how this will all work out.  It is remiss of me not to 
> point out that retirement of the project is a serious possibility.
> 
> There are those who fear that discussing retirement can become a 
> self-fulfilling prophecy.  My concern is that the project could end with a 
> bang or a whimper.  My interest is in seeing any retirement happen 
> gracefully.  That means we need to consider it as a contingency.  For 
> contingency plans, no time is a good time, but earlier is always better than 
> later.
> 
> 
> B. WHAT RETIREMENT COULD LOOK LIKE
> 
> Here is a provisional list of all elements that would have to be addressed, 
> over a period of time, as part of any retirement effort.   
> 
> In order to understand what would have had to happen in a graceful process, 
> the assumption below is that the project has already retired.
> 
> Requests for additions and adjustments to this compilation are welcome.
> 
> 1. CODE BASE
> 
>1.1 The Apache OpenOffice Subversion repository where code is maintained 
> has been moved to "The Attic."  Apache Attic is an actual project, 
> .  The source code would remain
> available and could be checked-out from Subversion by anyone interested in 
> making use of it.  There is no means of committing changes.
> 
>1.2 Apache Externals/Extras consists of external libraries that are relied 
> upon by the source code but are not part of the source code.  These were 
> housed 

Re: 4.1.4 Release Manager?

[Dave Fisher]

The strategy behind 4.1.3 and 4.1.4 is this:.

(1) Quick releases of important bug fixes especially related to security.
(2) quickly building release manager skills. We became overly dependent on 
people who are no longer with us.
(3) establishing a regular cadence.

If you both want to work towards 4.2.0 quickly then please do so. If you are 
quick enough then you can beat 4.1.4.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Damjan Jovanovic  wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:44 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:
>> Hi Patricia;
>> 
>> I am rather amazed by the idea of 4.1.4, shouldn't we release
>> 4.2.0 instead? I mean ...
> 
> +1. We absolutely should.
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Recommend Marcus Lange (marcus) as the New Vice President for Apache OpenOffice

[Dave Fisher]

+1 approve.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 8:35 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:
> 
> [BCC to PMC]
> 
>RESOLUTION: That Marcus Lange (marcus) be recommended to the
>Apache Software Foundation Board to serve as Vice President 
>for Apache OpenOffice.  
> 
> The Vice President for Apache OpenOffice serves in accordance with and 
> subject to the direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the 
> Foundation.  The Vice President for Apache OpenOffice is the Chair of the 
> OpenOffice Project Management Committee.
> 
> Please vote by reply to this dev@-list thread on approval of the resolution.
> 
> [  ] +1 Approve
> [  ]  0 Abstain
> [  ] -1 Disapprove, with explanation
> 
> This is a procedural vote and a majority of binding votes is sufficient to 
> carry the resolution.
> 
> Please do not do anything but [VOTE] (with any -1 explanations) on this 
> thread.
> 
> To discuss this vote or the process, please use a [DISCUSS][VOTE] reply 
> rather than discussing on the [VOTE] thread.
> 
> The [VOTE] will conclude no sooner than Monday, 2016-09-19T16:00Z.
> 


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Re: Request for Nofollow or Removal of Links to My Site at Openoffice

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Someone of the DEV team may have access to templates and extensions sites which 
are hosted at sourceforge by agreement with the Apache OpenOffice PMC.

Can someone help?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 24, 2016, at 5:34 AM, James Knott  wrote:
> 
> You sent this to a mail list for users of Apache Open Office.  We have
> nothing to do with the web site.
> 
> 
>> On 09/23/2016 11:24 PM, Formsbirds wrote:
>> Dear Webmaster,
>> 
>> I'm writing to ask for adding "Nofollow" tag to the links that pointed to my 
>> site - formsbirds.com or remove them completely. 
>> We found thousands of links pointed to our site from 
>> templates.openoffice.org. The links are under an account named 
>> susie...@yandex.com.
>> This was caused by a SEO team we hired. We want to get our templates shared 
>> to more users via your site and hired a SEO team to upload our templates to 
>> your site. But they are too aggressive and put too many links inside.
>> Now we found thousands of backlinks from your site, which are actually bad 
>> to our site. 
>> We have contacted the SEO team to remove the links under the user account 
>> susie...@yandex.com, while they told us the account had been blocked and 
>> they couldn't log in to delete the links.
>> We ask for the removal of all the links, or just add "nofollow" tag to those 
>> links pointed to our website from your side. You can still keep the 
>> documents that have uploaded at your website if those templates ate useful 
>> to users, but please delete the links pointed to our site.
>> Katie Williams
>> Formsbirds.com
> 
> 
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Re: Bugzilla scanned by robots for Spam adress

[Dave Fisher]

This is from pre-Apache days and an older version of bugzilla. I think closing 
it makes sense.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 17, 2016, at 5:24 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> 
> see Bug: https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=62733
> 
> Is this still an issue?
> 
> i see it more as Infra Issue then as one for Open Office.
> 
> 
> All the best
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
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Re: future of OpenOffice

[Dave Fisher]

Writing a list of the top 100 defects that are easy and YOU would like fixed IS 
the Apache Way. You can suggest and help. What is not the Apache Way is to 
force others.

All the best!

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 13, 2017, at 7:09 PM, toki  wrote:
> 
>> On 01/13/2017 08:38 PM, Chuck Davis wrote:
>> 
>> It seems we've had quite a number of people coming here lately ... to
> state they want to get involved.
> 
> I've been sorely tempted to send them an email, telling them to
> construct a specific add-on. I've a lot more ideas up my sleeve.
> The other option is to assign them one of the 23,796 bugs, at random.
> 
> Tisn't The Apache Way, but it points at something specific to do, for
> which they might get the class credit they are wanting, and maybe even
> the bug or add-on they were assigned materializes, fully functional, and
> complete.
> 
> jonathon
> 
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Re: future of OpenOffice

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

If support for Microsoft Office formats is desired and Java is not a problem 
then Apache has a 15 year old project called Apache POI. Also, Apache 
ODFToolkit is sitting in the Incubator for 5.5 years now with one developer - 
Svante.

Conversion between ODF and OOXML is the only way to ultimate document freedom. 
Institutions cannot change - documents need to be write once and use anywhere. 

There is a way if there is a will.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 13, 2017, at 4:56 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> 
> +1 :-D
> 
> I will pick maybe some of the stuff up.
> 
> 
>> On 13.01.2017 21:38, Chuck Davis wrote:
>> Toki, I'm very glad to hear SOMEBODY has imagination!  :)
>> 
>> It seems we've had quite a number of people coming here lately (like a
>> professor someplace is sending them to get involved in open source) to
>> state they want to get involved.  I hope they and their professors are
>> taking notes from your material!  You have some very good ideas.
>> 
>> Thanks for being specific.
>> 
>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:08 PM, toki  wrote:
>>> 
 On 01/13/2017 03:15 PM, Chuck Davis wrote:
 
 but I fail to see it in my use cases.
>>> As far as word processing is concerned, one can make a case that since
>>> either WordStar 3.3 or WordPerfect 5.1, the proffered functionality is
>>> overkill for more than 90% of the user base.
>>> 
>>> As far as spreadsheets go, a case can be made that for anything that
>>> requires more sophistication than than Lotus 1 2 3 version 4.0, it would
>>> be more appropriate to use R & SQLite.
>>> 
 and start rolling out really useful features
>>> For Write, as a starting point, incorporate the features, functionality,
>>> and capabilities, of both WordStar 3.3 & WordPerfect 5.1, that are not
>>> currently present in AOo.
>>> 
>>> For Base:
>>> Step One: Include SQLite;
>>> Step Two: Provide a UI that non-database specialists understand well
>>> enough, to be able to intuitively create forms and do searches;
>>> Step Three: Purpose-specific addons. Templates which include Forms,
>>> macros, etc, that makes such obvious and easy for all to utilize. By way
>>> of example:
>>> * Project Management;
>>> * Genealogy Records;
>>> * Cookbook, including nutritional data;
>>> * Contact Management;
>>> 
>>> For Calc:
>>> Step One: Include R as part of the core install;
>>> Step Two: Purpose-specific addons. Templates which include macros, etc,
>>> that makes utilization obvious and easy for all. By way of example:
>>> * Financial Spread Betting;
>>> * Investment Analysis;
>>> * Earthquake Prediction;
>>> 
>>> ###
>>> 
>>> Something that sort of surprises me, is that AOo hasn't worked with SVN,
>>> to have "Save to SVN" as a standard feature. (The extension that
>>> provided this functionality is completely broken for LibO, and appears
>>> to be broken for AOo 4.1.3.)
>>> 
>>> "Save to SVN" might look arcane, and not useful to anybody. As a
>>> practical matter, it offers much better change control, and greater roll
>>> back functionality, than anything currently offered for any office suite
>>> --- if it does everything in the background, with minimal
>>> user-configuration and no end-user integration required.
>>> 
>>> ###
>>> 
>>> Project Management is the most visible hole in FLOSS office suites. In
>>> theory, a set of extensions and templates could provide this functionality.
>>> 
>>> A second hole is the ability to wrap spreadsheets, documents, images,
>>> etc into a single package. IOW, the functionality offered by Microsoft
>>> Office Binder.
>>> 
 I don't have enough imagination to know what those might be.
>>> For the most part, you're looking at specific use-cases.
>>> 
>>> As one example, "Print to Moon". (Explaining this requires an off-topic
>>> essay.)
>>> 
>>> Built-in speech recognition would be a second example.
>>> 
>>> Self-voicing functionality would be a third example.
>>> 
>>> jonathon
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
> 
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Re: Copyleft vs Permissive

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

If Oracle or IBM thought they had any additional advantage with Apache 
OpenOffice development then the history of this project would differ.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 13, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12.01.2017 11:00, Pedro wrote:
>> Hi Peter
>> 
>>> If your model works directly with the Product, the flexibility of the
>>> Permissive license can be the stronger choice.
>>> I do not believe that a lot of people understand this.
>> 
>> Can you elaborate on this point? I don't really see how using a copyleftless 
>> license is better when your business "works directly with the Product".
>> 
>> I see it as altruistic (like copyleft is communistic) but as a business 
>> model, I really don't see how it is a "stronger choice". Using a 
>> copyleftless license allows anyone else to build exactly the same product. 
> Never forget, all of this is a mind game. IF you fear something or feel 
> confident it is mostly based on your own weighting of arguments.
> 
> I assumed that if you work with a Product, then not all is released. Parts of 
> it, are closed, and therefore individual, but share a common base with other 
> competitors.
> This can drop production/development cost or can shortcut knowledge original 
> did not available.
> 
> I can not imagin that you can directly earn from a Product if you only have 
> copy left license model. Some do, but this is only working if all other 
> commiters more or less donate to the cause.
> Or you have a complex method on lesser and full copy left structure. Which 
> can results in issue over time, if something that develops differently then 
> you have planned.
> 
> The risk over time, is on Permissive licence lower. Also if this is viable 
> option, you can always retreat from the project without loosing your invest.
> 
> For us it means that Oracle, IBM can always start to market their own Product 
> without the need to return something towards Open Office. From Oracles or IBM 
> position this is a strong one.
> However I do not believe that the community is at the same time in a weaker 
> position, because Open Source is in my eyes not bound to market or earning 
> strategy. Unlike companies we can take time.
> You see that on the LO vs. OO discussion. Most of the LO argument are market 
> based one. If you think outside the market its all not an issue. What 
> Reamains is the strength of Open source as such.
> In my eyes we are in a super strong position, as long as we have a commiter 
> base that work for the greater good. And I am very convinced on the Open 
> Office future.
> 
>> Regards,
>> Pedro
> my best regards
> Peter
> 
> 
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Re: future of OpenOffice

[Dave Fisher]

Please correct the specific non Apache licenses if I get them wrong. As far as 
I know the sequence of events is:

Oracle buys Sun including OpenOffice (closed license) and the open source 
OpenOffice.org (GPL2).

TheDocumentFoundation forms and forks OpenOffice.org as LibreOffice under GPL2

Oracle donates OpenOffice.org to the Apache Software Foundation relicensed to 
AL2. Headers changed by an Oracle employee following ASF policy.

IBM donates OpenSymphony to the ASF relicensed to AL2. Headers changed by an 
IBM employee following ASF policy.

The Document Foundation takes much of the Apache OpenOffice AL2 licensed 
software and rebases LO on it. This allows integration of OpenSymphony code. 
Completely permissible under the AL2. They re-did the license of all the source 
as MPL2 changing the headers. Some think that this is shady although permitted. 
In effect this prevents LO updates from being contributed back to AOO.

That is the sequence.

One could ask on LO lists why they did this, but all we know here is what 
happens here.

Some say it is more fun to develop LO. Others like Patricia and I like the 
benefits of consuming AL2 software as opposed to GPL. Certainly TDF likes to 
consume AL2 software.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 12, 2017, at 10:29 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the correction.
> 
>> On 1/12/2017 7:38 AM, Nagy Ákos wrote:
>> https://www.openoffice.org/licenses/lgpl_license.html
>> Based on this page, OpenOffice change the license from LGPLv3 to Apache
>> 2.0 only when Oracle donate the code to Apache Foundation in june 2011,
>> but LibreOffice was forked from OOo in september 2010.
>> 
>> An article about this:
>> http://www.zdnet.com/article/what-the-heck-is-happening-with-openoffice-update/
>> 
>> 2017. 01. 12. 15:25 keltezéssel, Tsutomu Uchino írta:
>>> See this mail: http://legal-discuss.markmail.org/thread/mleqsm636zf5fqia
>>> 
>>> 2017-01-12 6:18 GMT+09:00 Dave :
>>> 
> On 11.01.2017 09:44, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>> On 1/10/2017 11:29 PM, Nagy �kos wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> it is impossible, because the LO license is LGPL+MPL, that can't be
>> merged in OpenOffice.
> That choice of license was very unfortunate, and a regrettable barrier
> to cooperation between the projects. When LO split off they could have
> kept the Apache license and the potential for future cooperation.
 The first release of OOo v3 was under LGPLv3 per Louis Suarez-Potts:
 https://lwn.net/Articles/272202/
 
 In September 2010 LO forked from OOo and released LO 3.3 in January 2011
 under the same license.
 
 Around 6 months later in June 2011 Oracle donated the LGPLv3 code to the
 ASF and AOO 3.4 was released in May 2012 under ALv2.
 
 In spite of a seemingly contradictory statement on the license page of
 the LO website, the above dates clearly show that LO code was forked
 from the original OOo code, not from the AOO code.
 
 Please let's not try to rewrite history.
 
 --
 Please address any reply to the mailing list only. Any messages sent to
 this noreply@ address are automatically deleted from the server and will
 never be read.
 
 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Templates and Extensions

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Dave,

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 7:42 PM, Dave Brondsema <d...@brondsema.net> wrote:
> 
> On 3/20/17 1:46 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
>> Hi -
>> 
>> SourceForge has been very helpful to the OpenOffice community. But with the 
>> issues seen in the other thread it may be time to explore what it would take 
>> to find an alternative way to host the OpenOffice extensions and templates 
>> sites. We need to have quick support and there is risk to the community not 
>> to have it.
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I don't see how a different host would help with the lack of general Drupal
> skills, or specific knowledge about the Templates and Extensions sites.  But
> I'll be glad to answer your questions.  And to continue to hunt down any
> technical problems in the other thread (so far they don't really seem to be 
> that
> widespread, might just some templates that aren't public).

I am certainly thankful for all of the support the project has received from 
SourceForge. It is awesome. I do have concerns. I am exploring the size of the 
site and whether or not there might be a better way to handle this rather than 
being subject to the whims of a corporation whose priorities have and will 
change. The final answer does not have to be Drupal. Or, I might decide to 
learn Drupal. I am not sure.

> 
>> 
>> In order to begin an exploration of this it would be important to know the 
>> size of the “problem”. A few questions about the scope.
>> 
>> (1) How many downloads in a month and what is the pattern?
> 
> 50-60,000 templates per month
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/aoo-templates/files/stats/timeline?dates=2017-01-01+to+2017-03-21
> 
> 45-90,000 extensions per month
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/aoo-extensions/files/stats/timeline?dates=2017-01-01+to+2017-03-21
> 
> At those stats links you can explore over time, country, and platform.
> 
>> (2) How many extensions are there?
> 
> 3013
> 
>> (3) How many templates?
> 
> 50,339
> 
>> (4) What scheme is used for login/security?
> 
> SourceForge accounts are used to manage the aoo-templates and aoo-extensions
> projects, which contain all the file releases and ssh/sftp access to web 
> hosting
> (apache/php/mysql).  The Drupal sites are separate, so have their own 
> security.
> I am not familiar with how it was developed, but I would imagine it is 
> standard
> Drupal security.

How many template and extensions project owners?

Regards,
Dave

> 
>> Other questions and comments? At this time we are unlikely to get any 
>> support from ASF infrastructure.
>> 
>> If any of these is confidential (like security) then please respond to that 
>> part only at priv...@openoffice.apache.org 
>> <mailto:priv...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dave Brondsema : d...@brondsema.net
> http://www.brondsema.net : personal
> http://www.splike.com : programming
>  <><
> 
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Re: Package name for new UNO components?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Damjan,

If this an official part of AOO then why not org.apache.openoffice.uno.*?

Regards,
Dave

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 10:41 AM, Mechtilde  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> do you know the existing one?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Mechtilde
> 
> 
> Am 20.03.2017 um 16:40 schrieb Damjan Jovanovic:
>> Hi
>> 
>> Our pre-existing UNO components use service names of the form
>> com.sun.star.*, for example:
>> com.sun.star.comp.sdbc.calc.ODriver
>> com.sun.star.comp.io.TextInputStream
>> com.sun.star.comp.Calc.SpreadsheetDocument
>> 
>> I am busy developing a new UNO component, a database driver for PostgreSQL.
>> Should I rather use a prefix such as org.apache.openoffice.* for it instead?
>> 
>> Damjan
>> 
> 
> 


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Templates and Extensions

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

SourceForge has been very helpful to the OpenOffice community. But with the 
issues seen in the other thread it may be time to explore what it would take to 
find an alternative way to host the OpenOffice extensions and templates sites. 
We need to have quick support and there is risk to the community not to have it.

In order to begin an exploration of this it would be important to know the size 
of the “problem”. A few questions about the scope.

(1) How many downloads in a month and what is the pattern?
(2) How many extensions are there?
(3) How many templates?
(4) What scheme is used for login/security?

Other questions and comments? At this time we are unlikely to get any support 
from ASF infrastructure.

If any of these is confidential (like security) then please respond to that 
part only at priv...@openoffice.apache.org 


Regards,
Dave

Re: Possible broken link: Checksums

[Dave Fisher]

Mr Ellis or Carrington,

This last reply is still not to the point and now we have an email that has a 
different signature from the email address.

Apache OpenOffice is both a large codebase and entirely run by volunteers. 
Additionally there are large amounts of documentation and support forums.

Please provide details of what is claimed and by whom. Without explicit 
information we cannot take these emails seriously and must treat this as “spam".

Regards,
Dave

> On Mar 4, 2017, at 10:32 AM, Brandon Carrington  wrote:
> 
> My name is left out of the work we did . If you can't figure it out he can
> 
> received a copyright infringement form from you. Would you like to report
> an alleged infringement? If so, I need more information.
> 
> John Ellis
> Interim Associate Vice President for Operations
> 
> On Mar 3, 2017 9:54 PM, "branc1780"  wrote:
> 
>> b758c6a7ad31f59f935e14ad64365ddbbab920598b85aaac1c4d17716be7a465.css"
>> integrity="sha256-t1jGp60x9Z+TXhStZDZd27q5IFmLhaqsHE0XcWvnpGU
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Express 3, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>> 

Re: [ANNOUNCE] Availability of AOO-4.1.4 RC2

[Dave Fisher]

Thanks Jim!

> On Aug 14, 2017, at 8:19 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> Available for immediate testing are the source tarball and
> community builds of Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC2.
> 
> As noted, these are Release Candidates and are not official,
> GA releases, although based on testing, the could become so.
> So PLEASE test these out!
> 
> You can find these gems at:
> 
>https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/openoffice/4.1.4-RC2/
> 
> Cheers!
> --
> Jim Jagielski
> On behalf of the Apache OpenOffice Project
> 
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Re: Windows 10 won't install Open Office

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I think that there is a wishlist item for our various installers. Self checking 
that the package is fully downloaded. As others have pointed out checking an 
MD5 or other hash is beyond most people’s skills while a simple script could 
more easily accomplish the task.

We put the binaries on the SourceForge mirrors, but the hashes should be served 
from a common location. Thoughts?

Regards,
Dave

> On Jul 5, 2017, at 11:42 AM, Donald Thomas  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the help.  Sorry I contacted the wrong place.  Problem resolved 
> after the fifth time I downloaded and tried to install.
> 
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2017, 3:46:32 AM CDT, FR web forum  
> wrote:
> 
> The better place to help end-users is:
> http://forum.openoffice.org
> 
> 
> - Mail original -
> De: "Donald Thomas" 
> À: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Envoyé: Mercredi 5 Juillet 2017 06:48:44
> Objet: Windows 10 won't install Open Office
> 
> I downloaded directly from your website, but Windows says it failed 
> verification.  Do you know any way around this?
> Don Thomas



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Re: Apache OpenOffice NG

[Dave Fisher]

Hi - continuing the top posting.

I think what Raphael is referring to is if the project should follow a pattern 
similar to Apache Subversion where only source code and no binary packages are 
provided.

If you look at https://subversion.apache.org/packages.html you will see what is 
meant. I am not sure how that would work for us. We already have a few 
“packagers”, but then also subversion is very simple compared to OpenOffice. 
The governance on deciding what is allowed on a packagers page might exceed the 
effort in maintaining viable Windows, Mac and Ubuntu/Linux builds. This is 
really the crux of “ease building”. (1)

Alternatively finding a way for a hypothetical organization to develop the 
application including security issues. The question would be who is that 
organization and would they be doing Apache OpenOffice or ${OfficeSuite} 
powered by Apache OpenOffice?

Regards,
Dave

> On May 1, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> 
> I am sorry not writing aß of Late. I lack time even to follow the list
> regularly atm. :(
> 
> For good code you need to compile, build the product I mean. There is no
> point in outsourcing this.
> 
> I think we are alone as long as we do not manage some fundamental reforms.
> 
> I think of:
> 1) ease building
> 2) strong generic library architecture
> 3) work tools to help in their projects
> 4) rally the Open office community behind an organization that develops the
> application
> 
> I know this is very complex because this strategy heads in different
> directions and differs a lot from current thinking. Also it is imho
> difficult to achieve since our resources are limited. In skill and in
> number.
> 
> I hope to have some more time again for open office in near future. Then I
> will let you know.
> 
> All the best
> Peter
> 
> Jörg Schmidt  schrieb am So., 23. Apr. 2017, 11:14:
> 
>>> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de]
>> 
>>> P.S.: Why should I install Apache OpenOffice on a server
>>> under wine? ;-)
>> 
>> Sorry, but my technical knowledge is far better than my English and I
>> hoped that a
>> concrete example would create more clarity than a linguistically imprecise
>> statement.
>> 
>> 
>> Jörg
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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>> 
>> --
> 
> Disclaimer: Diese Nachricht stammt aus einem Google Account. Ihre Antwort
> wird in der Google Cloud Gespeichert und durch Google Algorythmen zwecks
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Re: https live for extensions/templates.openoffice.org

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Dave,

Thank you!

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 17, 2017, at 6:16 PM, Dave Brondsema  wrote:
> 
> We at SourceForge have enabled https hosting for the extensions.openoffice.org
> and templates.openoffice.org sites now.  I have set up a redirects (302) to 
> move
> traffic over to https.
> 
> I also set up extensions.services.openoffice.org to redirect to
> extensions.openoffice.org so there is just one canonical domain (same for
> templates).
> 
> If there's any problems or concerns, I can back out the change easily.  If 
> there
> are no issues, I can changes the redirects to 301 permanent in a few days.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dave Brondsema
> 
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Re: Insert Document

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Giuseppe,

The ODFToolkit is a separate project. I've replied including 
off-...@incubator.apache.org

Your attachment will not be included. Depending on any response that project 
has issue tracking in JIRA.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 17, 2017, at 4:51 AM, Giuseppe Miniello 
>  wrote:
> 
> Good Morning, 
> i'm using ODF Toolkit for manipulate odt documents, when i try to insert an 
> odt with numbered list into another odt but the result is wrong. 
> The final document loses the correct numbering. 
> 
> The example is "TestOdfToolkit.java", the base document is "template.odt" and 
> the document that i try to insert is "tmp08610502224696135458.odt". 
> 
> The result doc "test.odt" loses the correct numbering. 
> 
> Did I do something wrong? 
> Can you help me solve the problem? 
> 
> Thanks in advance. 
> 
> Giuseppe Miniello 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Giuseppe Miniello
> WebRainbow® Software Analyst & Developer
> 
> g.minie...@hitachi-systems-cbt.com | Phone +39 051 8550 563
> Via Ettore Cristoni, 84 | 40033 Casalecchio Di Reno
> www.hitachi-systems-cbt.com
> 
> 
> This email for the D.Lgs n.196/2003 (Privacy Code), may contain confidential 
> and/or privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any 
> review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the 
> intended recipient, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based 
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> e-mail and delete all copies. Legal privilege is not waived because you have 
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Re: Community in Mexico City

[Dave Fisher]

Hi imacat,

It’s been awhile. I hope you are well.

For Apache wide community questions try this mailing list - 
d...@community.apache.org

Regards,
Dave

> On Jun 21, 2017, at 8:09 PM, imacat  wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
>I'll travel to Mexico from Taiwan on 7/1-10, and stay in Mexico City
> from 7/5-10.  My main purpose is to attend to WikiWomen Camp 2017 in
> Mexico City, but I would also like to meet the local OpenOffice/ASF/FOSS
> community in Mexico City if possible.  Is there any community meetup in
> Mexico City during 7/5-10?  Is there anyone that I can contact with?
> Thank you very much in advance.
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> imacat ^_*' 
> PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc
> 
> <> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/
> Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/
> Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://www.wofoss.org/
> OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/
> EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/
> Greenfoot Taiwan http://greenfoot.westart.tw/
> 



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Re: Bugzilla

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 20, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Raphael Bircher  wrote:
> 
> Hi Patricia
> 
> Am .05.2017, 22:04 Uhr, schrieb Patricia Shanahan :
> 
>> On 5/20/2017 9:07 AM, Raphael Bircher wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>> 
>>> Am .05.2017, 16:32 Uhr, schrieb esh1907 :
>>> 
 Maybe we should try to locate and convince people who used to work during
 Star and Sun Microsystems to rejoin the project?
>>> 
>>> I think this is the wrong way to go. We can't get the good old time
>>> back. What we need is fresh business blood. Not companies who use
>>> OpenOffice, Companies who help develop the project. Without this we will
>>> face a slow dead. A project in this size need professional developers.
>>> 
>>> But companies don't com just to put money in, they want something back
>>> (normally). SUN and IBM was a big exception. The point is, we are not
>>> attractive for Companies at the moment. There is no room to make money.
>>> We should start getting attractive for companies.
>> 
>> We may need both. If a company got interested in AOO today, they would be 
>> presented with the same problem as I'm fighting: a large, complicated body 
>> of code that seems to have been modified by separate departments - just 
>> because I find out how something works in writer, it does not mean I know 
>> how it works in calc.
>> 
>> A retired Sun or StarOffice person who understands how the code is put 
>> together could save me a lot of time. My current low level objective is to 
>> find where to put a break point to intercept a double click on OLE 
>> substitute text. A few minutes of e-mail response from someone who knows, or 
>> knows how to find out, might save me hours or days. The same would apply to 
>> the professional developers you want.
> I don't think, that this people are already retired, they are not old enough. 
> And people from the pre SUN time bring not a load of benefit. Most of the 
> code has changed since 1998. AFAIK one of the oldest part is the build in 
> file picker (not the native one) He goes back to 199x.
> 
> But you are right, the ex people from SUN would be value. If the commercial 
> situation of Apache OpenOffice changes, we can maybe get some of them back.
> 
> But what I want to say, we should not waste the time and try to restore the 
> old project. OpenOffice is old, in the IT world very old. Things change from 
> time to time. I don't say to scrap the old model immediately. Maybe we should 
> invite people from the whole ASF to discuss how a modern Office Suite looks 
> like. I believe we are to strong focused on the old concept. Sometimes this 
> blocks new ideas and scares also companies with new ideas away.

We have way too many users to abandon the 4.x branch completely. We do need to 
handle security issues.

If we want start a rewrite for a 5.x then we will need to map the functionality 
particularly in Calc. We will also need to pick a more modern language compared 
to C++. We now have an XML schema which can help us generate code. We did this 
for Java in Apache POI. The ODF Toolkit is also still in the Incubator and it 
could be of use.

I think we should all think about it a little and then have a series of video 
conferences reporting back to the community with a synopsis step by step.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Regards, Raphael
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
> 
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Re: Bugzilla

[Dave Fisher]

Waiting for an apology that's never going to come is not going to help.

Meh had some misstatements of fact, but the description of other projects was 
interesting. I don't care to correct the misstatements.

We have work to do here. Onward!

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 21, 2017, at 10:07 AM, Jörg Schmidt <joe...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net] 
> 
>> Reread what Simon wrote. Key phrase is those who work on both.
>> 
>> Also IBM as a company left the project 2.5 years ago and Rob 
>> left a year ago. 
> 
> Have the TDF members ever apologized for their insults to Rob (and other 
> Apache members)?
> Has the TDF ever criticized those who spread FUD over AOO?
> 
>> In this case it is not helpful to reopen 
>> these hurts and past issues.
> 
> I think that LO and AOO are two independent projects and that both have their 
> right to existence.
> 
> Some LO members, on the other hand, think it should only be LO, and that LO 
> is the successor to OOo. We can not accept this because the truth is the 
> OpenOffice is the original and LO is the fork.
> 
> What does TDF do? Where does it call for reconciliation? Where does it 
> criticize its own community members to spread FUD?
> 
> 
> Did you read what was written of "Meh" today? Where is the criticism of the 
> TDF against such mailing list posts?
> 
> And please understand that such statements, as she pronounced "Meh", should 
> damage AOO.
> 
> And tell me: where are the AOO members doing the same on LO mailing lists? I 
> do not see anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> greetings,
> Jörg
> 
> 
> -
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Re: Bugzilla

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 21, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Jörg Schmidt <joe...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net] 
> 
>> Meh had some misstatements of fact, 
> 
> And why are we silent about this?

The misstatements are minor. Dennis's name and the count of Google fuzz on LO 
is an order of magnitude too low. It is >300.

> 
> If AOO were my project, I would defend myself against such statements legally.
> 
> As a community, we can not defend ourselves legally, but we should defend 
> ourselves publicly.
> 
>> but the description of 
>> other projects was interesting. I don't care to correct the 
>> misstatements.
>> 
>> We have work to do here. Onward!
> 
> And the TDF should apologize for the FUD of the past and dissociate oneself 
> from the people who are today FUD! Public and clear!

If you care about this then you should discuss on the TDF lists as an 
individual. I don't see how it will help us get developers here.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> 
> greetings,
> Jörg
> 
> 
> -
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Re: Bugzilla

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 21, 2017, at 10:34 AM, Jörg Schmidt <joe...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
> 
> 
>> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net] 
> 
>> Here are some of mine. I am sure others differ.
>> 
>> (1) investigate and fix security holes.
> 
> +1 
> 
>> (2) frequent releases.
> 
> +-0 or -1
> 
> In practice, a time interval of 12-15 months would be sufficient.

More frequent releases are needed for two reasons.

- security fixes
- making sure we have several people who can be release manager.

Feature releases can be on an interval you describe.

> 
> Note: the release cycle of LO is much too short, even if this is always 
> presented as an advantage.
> I could write "imho", but the truth is that the one is a tangible practice 
> problem for professional office users. Because I offer commercial support for 
> OO and LO, I know what I'm talking about.
> 
>> (3) near one to one conversion to and from Microsoft Office.
> 
> +-0
> 
> Do you know the story of the hare and the hedgehog? 
> http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm187.html
> 
> 
> Yes, the users want that, but would not it be right and honest to tell the 
> users: 
> 'if you want MS Office, then use MS Office and not OO'

Users want to convert to AOO but cannot easily. Users want to share with 
friends on MSFT. Having a great divide is not tenable. Perhaps this is an 
extension.

> 
>> (4) deconflicted feature requests.
> 
> I do not know what you mean specifically with "deconflicted".

Raphael mentioned that feature requests bite each other. In prioritizing these 
we should pick which way.
> 
> 
>> What do people think?
> 
> I think _in the present situation_ it is better to work more and to discuss 
> less.

Agreed, but I'd still like to know what others think.

> 
> I am unfortunately not a programmer of OO, but I support the project with 
> user support, as a member of the project www.prooo-box.org and as a moderator 
> in the forum http://openoffice.org.
> I have regularly supported the project through translations of the release 
> notes into the German language.

Thank you.

Regards,
Dave
> 
> 
> 
> greetings,
> Jörg
> 
> 
> -
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Re: Bugzilla

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jörg,

Reread what Simon wrote. Key phrase is those who work on both.

Also IBM as a company left the project 2.5 years ago and Rob left a year ago. 
In this case it is not helpful to reopen these hurts and past issues.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 21, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> 
>> Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2017 2:46 PM
> 
>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Jörg Schmidt 
> 
>> Repeating untrue statements
> 
> This is not an untrue statement.
> 
>> TDF has moved on
> 
> I have experienced how high members of the TDF called Rob Weir as liars and 
> attacked other members of Apache. 
> And the same people want to see AOO dead today.
> 
> 
> 
> Jörg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
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Re: Bugzilla

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jörg,

To think positively what should be the project's development goals? I think if 
we are going to attract developers and companies we need an agenda or rough 
roadmap.

Here are some of mine. I am sure others differ.

(1) investigate and fix security holes.
(2) frequent releases.
(3) near one to one conversion to and from Microsoft Office.
(4) deconflicted feature requests.

What do people think?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

On May 21, 2017, at 3:36 AM, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:

>> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 
> 
>> maybe, but I was talking about more than just developers. 
>> Sure, we need 
>> more but we need also man-power to work on the additional reports. 
>> Currently we have a large number of them open and it won't 
>> get less in 
>> the future when the proposal comes true. ;-)
> 
> My answer is simple and very clear:
> Why should you edit bugreports (I mean in Bugzilla etc.) as long as you are 
> _not_ sure, in continuation of this work, then also programmers fix the bugs? 
>  
> 
> Sorry, this is my honest answer.
> 
>> In project of volunteers we haven't hard arguments to say 
>> what one "has" 
>> to do (like salary, promotion, more things that work well in 
>> the private 
>> economy business).
> 
> Interesting answer, because it makes a mistake of the ASF clear: there is no 
> way to donate, for individual projects. (except for large single donations)
> _But this is not my topic today._
> 
>> But in general, I would also expect that there is a base of 
>> self-motivation and an eye for the important things.
> 
> Perhaps, but: expectation is not reality and in reality there is this view 
> (so far) not (imho).
> 
> But I do not want to discuss further, because it makes no sense as long as 
> the individual interests of the volunteers are defended against the interests 
> of the project ... Sorry.
> 
> Why is my answer so negative?
> Because I am longer than 10 years in the OpenOffice-project and always hear 
> the same answers. Answers that do not bring us forward.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jörg
> 
> 
> -
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Fwd: Problem with Open Office before and after installing new update

[Dave Fisher]

For what it's worth

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Hugo Costa 
> Date: May 21, 2017 at 1:36:19 PM EDT
> To: "us...@openoffice.apache.org" 
> Cc: Rory O'Farrell ,  Martin Groenescheij 
> ,  Brian Barker 
> Subject: Re: Problem with Open Office before and after installing new update
> Reply-To: us...@openoffice.apache.org
> Reply-To: Hugo Costa 
> 
> I begin the campaign  :  DO NOT UPGRADE  the OPEN OFFICE  UNLESS the SPELL 
> CHECK IS GOING TO WORK   .. I don know who decides when to upgrade it,  but 
> how many of us have a problem  with the spell check after it.
> The  solution given, solution at end, made with respect,  is Neanderthal Time 
>  !!!
> 
> I saw it the same answer before in this  "chat"Spell check is an aptitude old 
> as word editors.  Do not touch it.
> 
> Letś stand on it :  I vote DO NOT UPGRADE  the OPEN OFFICE  UNLESS the SPELL 
> CHECK IS GOING TO WORK  
> 
> 
>On Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:52 AM, Rory O'Farrell  wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, 18 May 2017 01:58:06 + (UTC)
> Matt Wiser  wrote:
> 
>>   Hi. Matt Wiser here, and I have been a longtime user of OpenOffice since 
>> the Win98 days on a desktop, and now on my laptop. Today, I encountered a 
>> problem, and a forum search didn't help. I opened a document that I had 
>> created and saved two years ago, and it had wavy lines beneath all of the 
>> text, something that has never happened before. I downloaded and installed 
>> the update to the new version just released, and the same thing happens! 
>> Only by disabling the automatic spell check does the wavy line disappear. 
>> Language has been set to English (USA) as the default setting. What's going 
>> on here? 
>> Thanks in advance for your assistance, and can someone tell me what's going 
>> on here? I am a casual user of my computer-probably with a Capital C, so, 
>> any help is appreciated. 
> 
> Start by renaming your OpenOffice user profile.
> 
> As you are using Windows close OpenOffice and the Quickstarter. Open File
> Explorer. Copy and paste %appdata%\OpenOffice\4 in the File Explorer 
> (sometimes called Windows Explorer)
> Address Bar and press Enter. Rename the "user" folder - "user.old" is a
> good choice. Start OpenOffice.
> 
> This cures most spellcheck problems.
> 
> -- 
> Rory O'Farrell 
> 
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> 
> 

Re: Apache licence vs cc-by-sa

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Guy,

I see that you found that the Apache License 2.0 is very permissive.

If use of your images in Apache projects like OpenOffice are desired then you 
may want to see https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html to understand how 
various other Open Source licenses may or may not be used within an Apache 
release.

Of course you are free to release your material under as many licenses as you 
wish which allows others to reuse under the license of their choice.

Best Regards,
Dave

> On Jun 16, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Guy Waterval  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I have decided since for a while, to publish only under an Apache license
> all the photos that I upload to Wikimedia Commons, because they are
> destinated to an uni which will select those to integrate to its internal
> photographic collection. For this reason, I wish delivery the material with
> a maximum reusability, without any problem..
> For instance, I want to avoid that if some of my images shoud be inserted
> in a document (thesis or other works), they couldn't influence the
> conditions of use of the created document. I want to allow the author of
> the final document to choose whether to publish his document under a free
> license or not. Of course the internal parts under ALV2.0 are to be
> announced by a notice in the global document.
> Others tell me that it's also possible to do that with internal parts
> (texts or images) licenced under a cc-by-sa. But for me, a composite
> document integrating parts (images or texts) under a cc-by-sa license has
> to be licensed globally under cc-by-sa only, because this licence is not a
> permissive one. To be OK, a cc-by and not a cc-by-sa should be used in this
> case.
> 
> Thanks for your advices
> gw
> 
> 
> Garanti
> sans virus. www.avast.com
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>



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Re: [Discussion] Switch to Git?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Here is a difference between Git and SVN that could be important.

In GIT you check out the whole repository.
In SVN you can check out parts.

Another would be does SVN vs. GIT prevent new developers from volunteering?

Historical note - when OpenOffice came to Apache it had just been moved to 
Mercurial...

Regards,
Dave

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 6:32 AM, Damjan Jovanovic  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> 
>> I know Git is the repository-of-the-decade, and therefore a switch to it
>> is probably inevitable, just like the switch from RCS to SCCS and from SCCS
>> to Subversion.
>> 
>> Just as a matter of curiosity, which IDE's do not support Subversion? I
>> know I was using a it with Eclipse before I heard of Git.
>> 
>> 
> Visual Studio Code only supports Git out of the box.



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Re: [Discussion] Switch to Git?

[Dave Fisher]

We must not block 4.1.4. We must release soon.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 7:36 PM, Damjan Jovanovic  wrote:
> 
> The process is, we vote, then get Infra to switch us.
> 
> Many big and small Apache projects have switched to Git, eg. Apache Commons.
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 4:26 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
>> 
>> I would like to add one more condition: We should not move until the
>> process we will use has been applied successfully to smaller projects.
>> 
>> I am relatively neutral on the choice of repository, and a lot of people
>> seem to like Git.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 9/14/2017 11:16 AM, Marcus wrote:
>>> 
>>> Even when I'm not a real developer, please let me add some points:
>>> 
>>> IMHO we could switch when
>>> 
>>> - ASF Infra can and will support it
>>> - the CMS (it manages the webpages) is supporting Git
>>> - the big majority of us is wanting Git
>>> - it is known how and save that the SVN commit history can be migrated
>>>   to Git
>>> 
>>> PS:
>>> As Apache project the code has to be at the ASF. I think it's not
>>> possible to store it somewhere else like, e.g., GitHub.
>>> 
>>> Marcus
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 Am 14.09.2017 um 19:24 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
 
 
> On 14.09.2017 13:10, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Can we please switch to using Git instead of Subversion for AOO's
> source?
> 
> I don't know how much justification you want/need. Git is huge nowdays,
> by
> far the most popular VCS worldwide, the one most developers know and
> IDEs
> support (https://rhodecode.com/insights/version-control-systems-2016).
> It
> would help us with local branches for testing and experimenting offline,
> git bisect for regression testing, it's efficient with large projects,
> it
> would integrate with GitHub better, etc.
> 
> What do people think?
> 
> Damjan
> 
> As much as I prefer GIT for Codemaintenance, I think the central REPO
 should be maintained by Apache Infra.
 If Infra can move to git, fine. If they do not support it, it is also
 fine to me.
 
 I am at -1 to have our official REPO on GITHUB or another service
 provider.
 
 And I am not sure if we can not work around the problem to commit to SVN
 from a GIT repo.
 Have to check.
 
 
 All the best
 Peter
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> 
>>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 


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Re: [Discussion] Switch to Git?

[Dave Fisher]

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 11:16 AM, Marcus  wrote:
> 
> Even when I'm not a real developer, please let me add some points:
> 
> IMHO we could switch when
> 
> - ASF Infra can and will support it
> - the CMS (it manages the webpages) is supporting Git
> - the big majority of us is wanting Git
> - it is known how and save that the SVN commit history can be migrated
>  to Git
> 
> PS:
> As Apache project the code has to be at the ASF. I think it's not possible to 
> store it somewhere else like, e.g., GitHub.

GitBox is being experimented with and there are a few projects that use GitHub 
with the mirror being on the Apache side. Infra is not offering this to all. 
Ask Greg Stein about it.

Regards,
Dave


> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
> Am 14.09.2017 um 19:24 schrieb Peter Kovacs:
>> On 14.09.2017 13:10, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> Can we please switch to using Git instead of Subversion for AOO's source?
>>> 
>>> I don't know how much justification you want/need. Git is huge nowdays, by
>>> far the most popular VCS worldwide, the one most developers know and IDEs
>>> support (https://rhodecode.com/insights/version-control-systems-2016). It
>>> would help us with local branches for testing and experimenting offline,
>>> git bisect for regression testing, it's efficient with large projects, it
>>> would integrate with GitHub better, etc.
>>> 
>>> What do people think?
>>> 
>>> Damjan
>>> 
>> As much as I prefer GIT for Codemaintenance, I think the central REPO should 
>> be maintained by Apache Infra.
>> If Infra can move to git, fine. If they do not support it, it is also fine 
>> to me.
>> I am at -1 to have our official REPO on GITHUB or another service provider.
>> And I am not sure if we can not work around the problem to commit to SVN 
>> from a GIT repo.
>> Have to check.
>> All the best
>> Peter
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 



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Re: Release Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC4 crashes on Mac

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Roberto,

> On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:25 PM, Roberto Galoppini <roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> 2017-10-03 21:06 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>:
> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> On System Preferences / Security & Preferences what is your Allow apps
>> downloaded set to? It should be App Store and identified developers.
>> 
> 
> Correct.
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> If you go into Terminal what are your permissions on /Users/> user>/Library/Application Support/.?
>> 
> 
> drwxr-xr-x

I have the following permissions:

drwxr-xr-x   3 davewave  staff   102 Oct  3 12:45 OpenOffice
drwx--+ 32 davewave  staff  1088 Oct  3 12:45 .
Daves-MacBook-Pro:Application Support davewave$

Not sure what’s up.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 11:02 AM, Roberto Galoppini <
>> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 2017-10-03 19:47 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>:
>> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> I am on MacOS 10.12.6 (16G29)
>> 
>> I had to control click and then open. It worked for me but then I had a
>> prior setup. I renamed my prior setup and opened again correctly with user
>> name registration.
>> 
>> What do you have in/Users/davewave/Library/Application
>> Support/OpenOffice/4/user/4/user?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Nothing, I've simulated a fresh new start.
>> 
>> Roberto
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 6:25 AM, Roberto Galoppini <roberto.galopp...@gmail.com
>>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I've re-downloaded again, it does not work. Does anyone else have tried
>> that? I'm really the only one facing problem with this build?
>> 
>> 2017-10-03 15:04 GMT+02:00 Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org>:
>> 
>> Did you happen to check keys or do a sumcheck on the download? This is
>> sounding like it could be a file that was corrupted somewhere in the build,
>> upload, download, install chain.
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/3/2017 5:13 AM, Roberto Galoppini wrote:
>> 
>> Double-clicking.
>> 
>> 2017-10-03 13:42 GMT+02:00 Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com>:
>> 
>> How do you open it? Dbl-click the Icon? Select it and choose Open?
>> 
>> Alt-click Open?
>> 
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:51 AM, Roberto Galoppini <
>> 
>> 
>> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> It never launched, actually. It crashes before anything else.
>> 
>> 2017-10-03 11:24 GMT+02:00 Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org>:
>> 
>> Do you do anything in particular, such as open some type of document,
>> 
>> before it crashes?
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/3/2017 12:28 AM, Roberto Galoppini wrote:
>> 
>> I was trying to test
>> 
>> Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.4_MacOS_x86-64_install_en-US.dmg but I
>> 
>> couldn't, it
>> 
>> 
>> keeps crashing.
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Roberto
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 



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Re: Release Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC4 crashes on Mac

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

On System Preferences / Security & Preferences what is your Allow apps 
downloaded set to? It should be App Store and identified developers.

If you go into Terminal what are your permissions on /Users//Library/Application Support/.?

Regards,
Dave

> On Oct 3, 2017, at 11:02 AM, Roberto Galoppini <roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> 2017-10-03 19:47 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>:
> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> I am on MacOS 10.12.6 (16G29)
>> 
>> I had to control click and then open. It worked for me but then I had a
>> prior setup. I renamed my prior setup and opened again correctly with user
>> name registration.
>> 
>> What do you have in/Users/davewave/Library/Application 
>> Support/OpenOffice/4/user/4/user?
>> 
> 
> Nothing, I've simulated a fresh new start.
> 
> Roberto
> 
> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 6:25 AM, Roberto Galoppini <roberto.galopp...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I've re-downloaded again, it does not work. Does anyone else have tried
>> that? I'm really the only one facing problem with this build?
>> 
>> 2017-10-03 15:04 GMT+02:00 Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org>:
>> 
>> Did you happen to check keys or do a sumcheck on the download? This is
>> sounding like it could be a file that was corrupted somewhere in the build,
>> upload, download, install chain.
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/3/2017 5:13 AM, Roberto Galoppini wrote:
>> 
>> Double-clicking.
>> 
>> 2017-10-03 13:42 GMT+02:00 Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com>:
>> 
>> How do you open it? Dbl-click the Icon? Select it and choose Open?
>> 
>> Alt-click Open?
>> 
>> On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:51 AM, Roberto Galoppini <
>> 
>> 
>> roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> It never launched, actually. It crashes before anything else.
>> 
>> 2017-10-03 11:24 GMT+02:00 Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org>:
>> 
>> Do you do anything in particular, such as open some type of document,
>> 
>> before it crashes?
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/3/2017 12:28 AM, Roberto Galoppini wrote:
>> 
>> I was trying to test
>> 
>> Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.4_MacOS_x86-64_install_en-US.dmg but I
>> 
>> couldn't, it
>> 
>> 
>> keeps crashing.
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Roberto
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 



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Re: Resigning as RM for 4.1.x

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2017, at 1:15 PM, Marcus  wrote:
> 
> Am 10.10.2017 um 22:03 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>> On Oct 10, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Now the question is, is it OK for us to go ahead, release 4.1.4 with this 
>>> "known issue" and commit to fixing this and other possible regressions in 
>>> 4.1.5 next month? Technically, the Release Manager (and I still consider 
>>> Jim to be in charge, of course!) has the last word. But I'd say everybody 
>>> is welcome to comment.
>> I am 100% fine w/ this. It is a known regression however, but we can
>> say that w/ the release of 4.1.4 we are committing ourselves to a 4.1.5 in 
>> 30-60 days.
> 
> sounds good.

We will need to make sure that people know how to get 4.1.3 if they run into 
the issue.

> 
> Then we can still decide if the amount of issues is high enough to put effort 
> into a 4.1.5 release. Or move on to 4.2.0.

How stable is trunk?

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 


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Re: AOO 4.1.4 – Error message

[Dave Fisher]

> On Oct 16, 2017, at 11:09 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> I am on macOS Sierra and do not see the issues in RC4.
> 
> With RC4 -

Sorry a typo - with RC5 I see:

> 
> (1) I get the little general error dialog.
> (2) I don’t see any terminal output after starting from Terminal.
> (3) While the error is up the lock file .~lock.# has been created 
> with a length of 129
> 
> David Fisher,davewave,Daves-MacBook-Pro.local,16.10.2017 
> 10:35,file:///Users/davewave/Library/Application%20Support/OpenOffice/4 
> ;
> 
> (4) I also get the error if I start like so:
> 
> /Applications/OpenOffice.app/Contents/MacOS/soffice -view ODF-Test.odt
> 
> The window is open but the background is grey when the error is displayed.
> 
> There is nothing obvious in a diff between RC4 and RC5 on the Mac. There are 
> differences for versions and a large number of the dylib, zip and jars do 
> differ.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 5:01 AM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com 
>> <mailto:j...@jagunet.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Assuming AOO is installed in /Applications:
>> 
>>/Applications/OpenOffice.app/Contents/MacOS/soffice
>> 
>> should do it.
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 6:59 AM, Rory O'Farrell <ofarr...@iol.ie 
>>> <mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 17:45:20 -0600
>>> Larry Gusaas <larry.gus...@gmail.com <mailto:larry.gus...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2017-10-15, 3:38 PM Rory O'Farrell wrote
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 15:27:15 -0600
>>>>> Larry Gusaas <larry.gus...@gmail.com <mailto:larry.gus...@gmail.com>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2017-10-15, 1:01 PM Rory O'Farrell wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Can you run openoffice4 from a terminal and report the messages?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rory
>>>>>>I don't know terminal very well and do not know how to do that. I can 
>>>>>> follow instruction
>>>>>>for using terminal if you have the time to give them to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can't answer with any certainty for Mac, but my understanding, based on 
>>>>> something I paid little attention to (no need), is that the current Mac 
>>>>> operating system is a form of linux.
>>>> 
>>>> macOS is derived from Unix. Many, not all commands are similar to Linux
>>>> 
>>>>> Open it and type "openoffice4" (no quotes).  OO should then open and run 
>>>>> and give some possibly helpful diagnostics about what it is not finding, 
>>>>> or what has happened.  These will be helpful to developers debugging.
>>>> 
>>>> Doesn't work. Needs more specific  command. I will investigate later and 
>>>> try to get more
>>>> information. Problem occurs on both my Macs so isn't specific to macOS 
>>>> High Sierra, which i
>>>> upgraded this Mac to recently.
>>> 
>>> I cannot help further - no experience on Macs.  Perhaps some Mac-using list 
>>> member can assist.
>>> 
>>> Rory
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Some info on Terminal for a Mac is at
>>>>> http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac-software/how-use-terminal-on-mac-3608274/
>>>>>  
>>>>> <http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac-software/how-use-terminal-on-mac-3608274/>
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Larry
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> _
>>>> 
>>>> Larry I. Gusaas
>>>> Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
>>>> Website: http://larry-gusaas.com <http://larry-gusaas.com/>
>>>> "An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind 
>>>> theirs." - Edgard Varese
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org 
>>>> <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org 
>>>> <mailto:dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Rory O'Farrell <ofarr...@iol.ie <mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie>>
>>> 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org 
>>> <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org>
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org 
>>> <mailto:dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org 
>> <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org 
>> <mailto:dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org>
>> 
> 



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Re: AOO 4.1.4 – Error message

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jim,

I am on macOS Sierra and do not see the issues in RC4.

With RC4 -

(1) I get the little general error dialog.
(2) I don’t see any terminal output after starting from Terminal.
(3) While the error is up the lock file .~lock.# has been created 
with a length of 129

David Fisher,davewave,Daves-MacBook-Pro.local,16.10.2017 
10:35,file:///Users/davewave/Library/Application%20Support/OpenOffice/4;

(4) I also get the error if I start like so:

/Applications/OpenOffice.app/Contents/MacOS/soffice -view ODF-Test.odt

The window is open but the background is grey when the error is displayed.

There is nothing obvious in a diff between RC4 and RC5 on the Mac. There are 
differences for versions and a large number of the dylib, zip and jars do 
differ.

Regards,
Dave

> On Oct 16, 2017, at 5:01 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> Assuming AOO is installed in /Applications:
> 
>/Applications/OpenOffice.app/Contents/MacOS/soffice
> 
> should do it.
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 6:59 AM, Rory O'Farrell  wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 17:45:20 -0600
>> Larry Gusaas  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2017-10-15, 3:38 PM Rory O'Farrell wrote
>>> 
 On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 15:27:15 -0600
 Larry Gusaas  wrote:
 
> On 2017-10-15, 1:01 PM Rory O'Farrell wrote:
> 
>> Larry
>> 
>> Can you run openoffice4 from a terminal and report the messages?
>> 
>> Rory
>I don't know terminal very well and do not know how to do that. I can 
> follow instruction
>for using terminal if you have the time to give them to me.
 
 I can't answer with any certainty for Mac, but my understanding, based on 
 something I paid little attention to (no need), is that the current Mac 
 operating system is a form of linux.
>>> 
>>> macOS is derived from Unix. Many, not all commands are similar to Linux
>>> 
 Open it and type "openoffice4" (no quotes).  OO should then open and run 
 and give some possibly helpful diagnostics about what it is not finding, 
 or what has happened.  These will be helpful to developers debugging.
>>> 
>>> Doesn't work. Needs more specific  command. I will investigate later and 
>>> try to get more
>>> information. Problem occurs on both my Macs so isn't specific to macOS High 
>>> Sierra, which i
>>> upgraded this Mac to recently.
>> 
>> I cannot help further - no experience on Macs.  Perhaps some Mac-using list 
>> member can assist.
>> 
>> Rory
>> 
>>> 
 Some info on Terminal for a Mac is at
 http://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac-software/how-use-terminal-on-mac-3608274/
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Larry
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> _
>>> 
>>> Larry I. Gusaas
>>> Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
>>> Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
>>> "An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind 
>>> theirs." - Edgard Varese
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Rory O'Farrell 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 



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Re: AOO 4.1.4 – Error message

[Dave Fisher]

Did you open an existing file?

> On Oct 16, 2017, at 2:27 PM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> FWIW, I just installed 10.13 / High Sierra on a test machine. AOO 4.1.4-RC5
> opened up just fine. Because it was a virgin install, I had to go thru the
> "setup" phase. After that closed-and-opened-and-closed multiple
> times with no errors.
> 
> 
> 
> -
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 



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Re: New macOS builds available (Was: Re: [VOTE] Release Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC5 as GA)

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jim,

I’ve downloaded the new binary and the problem is no longer present.

THANK YOU!

Regards,
Dave

> On Oct 17, 2017, at 8:35 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> New macOS builds for AOO 4.1.4-RC5 are now available. Previous
> builds had linking issues which manifested themselves when running
> under High Sierra (macOS 10.13). This has been fixed in these builds.
> 
> NOTE: These are source-code identical with previous builds.
> 
>> On Oct 13, 2017, at 8:52 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
>> 
>> Due to a last-minute regression noted in 4.1.4-RC4 (Thx! to
>> all testers, by the way. We are glad this was found before
>> we actually released), 4.1.4-RC4 was revoked as GA.
>> 
>> But fear not!
>> 
>> I am calling a VOTE on releasing Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC5
>> as GA!!
>> 
>> You can find these gems at:
>> 
>> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/openoffice/4.1.4-RC5/
>> 
>> The vote will last at least the normal 72 hours.
>> 
>> Cheers!
>> --
>> Jim Jagielski
>> On behalf of the Apache OpenOffice Project
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 



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Re: AOO 4.1.4 – Error message

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I’m not ready to build at the moment.

Some observations about macOS - The way our Mac versions work on the latest 
macOS releases is problematic in several ways. This issue adds one more tricky 
point.

(1) We do not sign with an Apple Developer account.
(2) Security Preferences need to be adjusted to open OpenOffice.
(3) Because of (1) and (2) you have to use Control-click to open OpenOffice.
(4) If you have Microsoft Word installed then it wants to open ODT files if you 
double-click on them.
(5) To install from the DMG drag and drop no longer works. You have to Copy and 
Paste to the Applications folder.

One goal for 4.2 should be to fix all of these issues.

The trouble is somewhere after the window and the lock file are created.

Regards,
Dave


> On Oct 16, 2017, at 12:41 PM, Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> wrote:
> 
> As a test, would it be possible for a Mac developer to rebuild with the 
> source code for RC5 but the process and libraries from RC4, and/or the other 
> way round? That will tell us whether the problem is a source code change or a 
> build process change.
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/16/2017 11:33 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 11:09 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jim,
>>> 
>>> I am on macOS Sierra and do not see the issues in RC4.
>>> 
>>> With RC4 -
>> Sorry a typo - with RC5 I see:
>>> 
>>> (1) I get the little general error dialog.
>>> (2) I don’t see any terminal output after starting from Terminal.
>>> (3) While the error is up the lock file .~lock.# has been created 
>>> with a length of 129
>>> 
>>> David Fisher,davewave,Daves-MacBook-Pro.local,16.10.2017 
>>> 10:35,file:///Users/davewave/Library/Application%20Support/OpenOffice/4 
>>> ;
>>> 
>>> (4) I also get the error if I start like so:
>>> 
>>> /Applications/OpenOffice.app/Contents/MacOS/soffice -view ODF-Test.odt
>>> 
>>> The window is open but the background is grey when the error is displayed.
>>> 
>>> There is nothing obvious in a diff between RC4 and RC5 on the Mac. There 
>>> are differences for versions and a large number of the dylib, zip and jars 
>>> do differ.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 5:01 AM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com 
>>>> <mailto:j...@jagunet.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Assuming AOO is installed in /Applications:
>>>> 
>>>>/Applications/OpenOffice.app/Contents/MacOS/soffice
>>>> 
>>>> should do it.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 6:59 AM, Rory O'Farrell <ofarr...@iol.ie 
>>>>> <mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 17:45:20 -0600
>>>>> Larry Gusaas <larry.gus...@gmail.com <mailto:larry.gus...@gmail.com>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2017-10-15, 3:38 PM Rory O'Farrell wrote
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 15:27:15 -0600
>>>>>>> Larry Gusaas <larry.gus...@gmail.com <mailto:larry.gus...@gmail.com>> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2017-10-15, 1:01 PM Rory O'Farrell wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Can you run openoffice4 from a terminal and report the messages?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Rory
>>>>>>>>I don't know terminal very well and do not know how to do that. I 
>>>>>>>> can follow instruction
>>>>>>>>for using terminal if you have the time to give them to me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I can't answer with any certainty for Mac, but my understanding, based 
>>>>>>> on something I paid little attention to (no need), is that the current 
>>>>>>> Mac operating system is a form of linux.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> macOS is derived from Unix. Many, not all commands are similar to Linux
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Open it and type "openoffice4" (no quotes).  OO should then open and 
>>>>>>> run and give some possibly helpful diagnostics about what it is not 
>>>>>>> finding, or what has happened.  These will be helpful to developers 
>>>>>>&

Re: AOO 4.1.4 – Error message

[Dave Fisher]

> On Oct 16, 2017, at 1:16 PM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> 
> The next bump for AOO to 4.2.0 also includes a number of
> other "gotchas" related to macOS. For example, QtKit in 10.12
> is deprecated and removed, meaning that we cannot build the
> avmedia component using any SDK older than 10.12. plus, we
> cannot build with anything older than a 10.9 SDK due to
> C++ compatibility changes.
> 
> Basically, the macOS port is gonna require a bit of
> TLC.

I am willing to put some time into making the process smooth.

> 
>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> I’m not ready to build at the moment.
>> 
>> Some observations about macOS - The way our Mac versions work on the latest 
>> macOS releases is problematic in several ways. This issue adds one more 
>> tricky point.
>> 
>> (1) We do not sign with an Apple Developer account.
>> (2) Security Preferences need to be adjusted to open OpenOffice.
>> (3) Because of (1) and (2) you have to use Control-click to open OpenOffice.
>> (4) If you have Microsoft Word installed then it wants to open ODT files if 
>> you double-click on them.
> 
> This can easily be changed w/ a Get Info on a ODT file and
> then choosing AOO to open those file types.

Yes and change all seems to work.

> 
>> (5) To install from the DMG drag and drop no longer works. You have to Copy 
>> and Paste to the Applications folder.
> 
> Hmmm. I can't recreate that. Is this High Sierra?

Sierra. Pressing on the OpenOffice icon shows a pop-up.

Regards,
Dave

> 
>> 
>> One goal for 4.2 should be to fix all of these issues.
>> 
>> The trouble is somewhere after the window and the lock file are created.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 12:41 PM, Patricia Shanahan <p...@acm.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> As a test, would it be possible for a Mac developer to rebuild with the 
>>> source code for RC5 but the process and libraries from RC4, and/or the 
>>> other way round? That will tell us whether the problem is a source code 
>>> change or a build process change.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/16/2017 11:33 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 11:09 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am on macOS Sierra and do not see the issues in RC4.
>>>>> 
>>>>> With RC4 -
>>>> Sorry a typo - with RC5 I see:
>>>>> 
>>>>> (1) I get the little general error dialog.
>>>>> (2) I don’t see any terminal output after starting from Terminal.
>>>>> (3) While the error is up the lock file .~lock.# has been 
>>>>> created with a length of 129
>>>>> 
>>>>> David Fisher,davewave,Daves-MacBook-Pro.local,16.10.2017 
>>>>> 10:35,file:///Users/davewave/Library/Application%20Support/OpenOffice/4 
>>>>> ;
>>>>> 
>>>>> (4) I also get the error if I start like so:
>>>>> 
>>>>> /Applications/OpenOffice.app/Contents/MacOS/soffice -view ODF-Test.odt
>>>>> 
>>>>> The window is open but the background is grey when the error is displayed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is nothing obvious in a diff between RC4 and RC5 on the Mac. There 
>>>>> are differences for versions and a large number of the dylib, zip and 
>>>>> jars do differ.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 5:01 AM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com 
>>>>>> <mailto:j...@jagunet.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Assuming AOO is installed in /Applications:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  /Applications/OpenOffice.app/Contents/MacOS/soffice
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> should do it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Oct 16, 2017, at 6:59 AM, Rory O'Farrell <ofarr...@iol.ie 
>>>>>>> <mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 17:45:20 -0600
>>>>>>> Larry Gusaas <larry.gus...@gmail.com <mailto:larry.gus...@gmail.com>> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2017-10-15, 3:38 PM Rory O'Farrell wrote
>>>>

Fwd: FOSDEM Apache Developer Room ?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Is there any interest in OpenOffice participating with an Apache Developer Room 
at the 2018 FOSDEM?

If so we should let Sharan know at d...@community.apache.org

Regards,
Dave

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: "Sharan Foga"
> Subject: FOSDEM Apache Developer Room ?
> Date: September 4, 2017 at 1:50:34 AM PDT
> To: 
> Reply-To: d...@community.apache.org
> 
> Hi All
> 
> Is there any interest in us submitting a request for an Apache Developer room 
> for FOSDEM?
> 
> If we were allocated one then we would need to manage our own CFP for 
> presentations and content. Details are in the link below.
> 
> https://fosdem.org/2018/news/2017-09-03-call-for-participation/
> 
> The deadline for applications is 20th September so we'd need to act fairly 
> quickly.
> 
> Thanks
> Sharan
> 
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Re: Release Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC4 crashes on Mac

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

I am on MacOS 10.12.6 (16G29)

I had to control click and then open. It worked for me but then I had a prior 
setup. I renamed my prior setup and opened again correctly with user name 
registration.

What do you have in /Users//Library/Application 
Support/OpenOffice/4/user?

Regards,
Dave

> On Oct 3, 2017, at 6:25 AM, Roberto Galoppini  
> wrote:
> 
> I've re-downloaded again, it does not work. Does anyone else have tried
> that? I'm really the only one facing problem with this build?
> 
> 2017-10-03 15:04 GMT+02:00 Patricia Shanahan :
> 
>> Did you happen to check keys or do a sumcheck on the download? This is
>> sounding like it could be a file that was corrupted somewhere in the build,
>> upload, download, install chain.
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/3/2017 5:13 AM, Roberto Galoppini wrote:
>> 
>>> Double-clicking.
>>> 
>>> 2017-10-03 13:42 GMT+02:00 Jim Jagielski :
>>> 
>>> How do you open it? Dbl-click the Icon? Select it and choose Open?
 Alt-click Open?
 
 On Oct 3, 2017, at 5:51 AM, Roberto Galoppini <
> 
 roberto.galopp...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
> 
> It never launched, actually. It crashes before anything else.
> 
> 2017-10-03 11:24 GMT+02:00 Patricia Shanahan :
> 
> Do you do anything in particular, such as open some type of document,
>> before it crashes?
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/3/2017 12:28 AM, Roberto Galoppini wrote:
>> 
>> I was trying to test
>>> Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.4_MacOS_x86-64_install_en-US.dmg but I
>>> 
>> couldn't, it
 
> keeps crashing.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Roberto
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
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>> 
>> 
>> 
 
 -
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>>> 
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>> 
>> 



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Re: setting up ssh access

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Peter,

Certainly outdated.

Look on OpenOffice.apache.org

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2017, at 12:21 AM, Peter Kovacs  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I try to setup ssh access.
> 
> 
> I found this side in our wiki, which sounds quite out dated:
> 
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Setting_up_Subversion_Access
> 
> Do we still use DSA encryption?
> 
> And the list d...@tools.openoffice.org  is 
> this still true?
> 
> Which one is the right one?
> 
> 
> All the best
> 
> Peter
> 


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Re: 4.5.0? (Was: Re: AOO 4.2.0 and macOS)

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

It is worth letting the idea “percolate” while 4.1.4 release proceeds to 
completion.

I like Jm’s thought. Announcing plans while announcing a release and then 
executing on it would be the the best AOO marketing possible. We proceed with 
whoever helps methodically.

My 2cts.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 9, 2017, at 6:24 PM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Oct 9, 2017, at 7:15 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>> 
>> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>> I was wondering... what do people think about going from 4.1.x all the
>>> way straight to 4.5.0...
>>> Since this next "major" release is pretty major, maybe a
>>> bigger step in number might be justified. Especially if
>>> we drop some older supported platforms.
>> 
>> We should focus on 4.1.4 until the release process is complete.
> 
> It's called striking while the iron is hot ;)
> 
> 
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Re: Resigning as RM for 4.1.x

[Dave Fisher]

Hi

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2017, at 2:23 PM, Marcus <marcus.m...@wtnet.de> wrote:
> 
>> Am 10.10.2017 um 22:56 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>> Hi -
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Oct 10, 2017, at 1:15 PM, Marcus <marcus.m...@wtnet.de> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Am 10.10.2017 um 22:03 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>>>> On Oct 10, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pesce...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now the question is, is it OK for us to go ahead, release 4.1.4 with this 
>>>>> "known issue" and commit to fixing this and other possible regressions in 
>>>>> 4.1.5 next month? Technically, the Release Manager (and I still consider 
>>>>> Jim to be in charge, of course!) has the last word. But I'd say everybody 
>>>>> is welcome to comment.
>>>> I am 100% fine w/ this. It is a known regression however, but we can
>>>> say that w/ the release of 4.1.4 we are committing ourselves to a 4.1.5 in 
>>>> 30-60 days.
>>> 
>>> sounds good.
>> We will need to make sure that people know how to get 4.1.3 if they run into 
>> the issue.
> 
> I think when people can download 4.1.4, then they can also downlaod 4.1.3 to 
> do a downgrade install. Or do you mean to write 1-2 sentences into the 
> release notes?

Yes. A little text about how to downgrade.

Regards,
Dave

> 
>>> Then we can still decide if the amount of issues is high enough to put 
>>> effort into a 4.1.5 release. Or move on to 4.2.0.
>> How stable is trunk?
> 
> I don't remember many tests and reports about these dev builds. So, I would 
> call it: undefined.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
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Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Release Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC5 as GA

[Dave Fisher]

> On Oct 18, 2017, at 4:45 PM, Pedro Lino  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Maybe we need to ask for review of 
>> http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#release-approval at the same 
>> time as looking at the voting process documentation. If taken literally, a 
>> PMC member who cannot do builds from source can't cast a +1 vote, because 
>> their vote is binding and a binding +1 requires a build from source.
> 
> Probably the ASF wants to guarantee that at least 3 PMC members are 
> developers (or development inclined)?

It’s not probably. It *IS*!

> 
>> What I would like is to change it to require at least three PMC members to 
>> declare they have done a build from source and tested the result. Other PMC 
>> members could vote based on binary testing and signature checking without 
>> building.
> 
> Actually for a multi-platform software such as AOO it should be required that 
> building from source and testing the result was carried out by at least one 
> voter (PMC member or not) for each of the platforms/bit depths.
> If all three PMC members have success in building on e.g. Linux x64 it does 
> not provide any guarantee for the other platforms (as proven by 4.1.4 RC4)

We had two PMC providing the community builds. The official release is the 
Source release. We need as much testing as possible of the community releases. 
AOO is a unique project for Apache because our users count on the community 
builds and not the source releases.

I think we have grown in the last year because in the first years here at 
Apache most of the knowledge on how to build was in the minds of the former 
Hamburg team - Star, Sun, Oracle and then IBM employees.

Special thanks to Matthias and Jim how providing the Community Builds.

Regards,
Dave

> 
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Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Release Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC5 as GA

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Pedro,

> On Oct 18, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Pedro Lino  wrote:
> 
> On 18/10/2017 19:02, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> 
>> This is OK as long as the Apache Policy doesn't get in the way too much... I 
>> mean, I highly appreciate when people provide a list of what they did to 
>> justify their +1. But this shouldn't be used "against" them.
> 
> +1 (as a user)
> 
> ASF does a hell of a job to discourage participation! I particularly like 
> this gem "the basic rule is that only PMC members have binding votes, *and 
> all others are either discouraged from voting (to keep the noise down)* or 
> else have their votes considered of an indicative or advisory nature only.

(1) PMC members have a higher bar for their vote. I did not vote at all because 
I did not build from source etc.

(2) Would you name projects where you have felt discouraged? Have you felt 
discouraged here in past years?

> I'm glad AOO PMC members take these recommendations with a pinch of salt.

We know everyone helping is needed. It was great to have a long standing member 
of the user community like Larry vote to alert us to a problem with macOS!

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Kind regards,
> Pedro



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Re: Funds for Re: Open XML Filter

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

A third party entity could be formed to pay for development. An architecture 
and roadmap created either “there” or in the AOO project. Then developers could 
be recruited and paid.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 23, 2017, at 4:03 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Peter kovacs wrote:
>> How about creating a project plan, estimates for a budget and then start a 
>> campaign?
> 
> I think that getting money would not be the hardest part. The hardest part 
> would be to find people who are trusted and competent enough. The code is 
> complex and different people have different competences, and this should be 
> taken into account too.
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
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Re: dmake and epm

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jim,

I wanted to validate build instructions. Should I take these two from your 
github for my MacOS Sierra environment?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2017, at 7:31 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> Just a FYI that I am tracking dmake and epm on the
> below Github pages:
> 
>   o https://github.com/jimjag/epm
>   o https://github.com/jimjag/dmake
> 
> I know we are moving away from dmake, but IMO it'll take
> some time for that to be complete. Plus, updating to the
> latest version of EPM is useful (it's the ONLY way to build
> the macOS versions now, for example), but we also need
> the AOO-specific patches in there. Which are included
> in my forks.
> 
> Just topic for discussion and chewing over
> 
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Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Release Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC5 as GA

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Pedro,

> On Oct 18, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Pedro Lino  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave, all
> 
>> (1) PMC members have a higher bar for their vote. I did not vote at all 
>> because I did not build from source etc.
> 
> I agree that it is good that some users replicate the building procedure and 
> confirm that it works.
> Replicability is a good measure of transparency and quality.
> In any case I couldn't find that particular requirement for a PMC member in 
> the voting page (https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html). Maybe that 
> is being too strict?
> 
>> (2) Would you name projects where you have felt discouraged? Have you felt 
>> discouraged here in past years?
> 
> This is the only Apache project I collaborate with (I have been collaborating 
> with several other FOSS projects for a long time). Actually just reading the 
> ASF rules discouraged me to become a committer (I was invited in the past) 
> and still does.
> 
>> We know everyone helping is needed. It was great to have a long standing 
>> member of the user community like Larry vote to alert us to a problem with 
>> macOS!
> 
> Agreed. That is why the "*and all others are either discouraged from voting 
> (to keep the noise down)*" is particularly unnecessary (if not offensive).

I just read the page and I agree it is discouraging. I am going to discuss with 
Community Development about changing the wording. (If that is the correct 
place.)

Regards,
Dave


> 
> Regards,
> Pedro
> 
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Re: [VOTE][RESULT] Release Apache OpenOffice 4.1.4-RC5 as GA

[Dave Fisher]

> On Oct 18, 2017, at 3:12 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> 
> On 10/18/2017 12:28 PM, Pedro Lino wrote:
>> On 18/10/2017 19:02, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>> This is OK as long as the Apache Policy doesn't get in the way too much... 
>>> I mean, I highly appreciate when people provide a list of what they did to 
>>> justify their +1. But this shouldn't be used "against" them.
>> +1 (as a user)
>> ASF does a hell of a job to discourage participation! I particularly like 
>> this gem "the basic rule is that only PMC members have binding votes, *and 
>> all others are either discouraged from voting (to keep the noise down)* or 
>> else have their votes considered of an indicative or advisory nature only.
>> I'm glad AOO PMC members take these recommendations with a pinch of salt.
> 
> I particularly dislike the "only" in "advisory nature only". The success
> of AOO depends on the advice of every community member who cares enough
> to download a release candidate and test it.

I proposed the following new logic on the comdev mailing list.

Who is permitted to vote is, to some extent, a community-specific thing. 
However, the basic rule is that only PMC members have binding votes, and all 
other votes are advisory.

It turns out that this awful language on the voting page goes back to at least 
July 2004. Thanks to Pedro for pointing it out. It should be changed in the 
next few days.

Regards,
Dave

> 
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Building Guides

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

From the download page there is a link to Building Guides:

This goes to https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO 


I don’t think that this leads to the most up to date information. Where is the 
most up to date information?

Regards,
Dave


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Re: Building Guides

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Keith,

I believe that these guides are old and particularly that the Mac Guide is in 
the Confluence Wiki. I would like Matthias and Jim to indicate where their 
build instructions are located. Once we have that then we can update.

Regards,
Dave

> On Oct 19, 2017, at 11:37 AM, Keith N. McKenna <keith.mcke...@comcast.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> On 10/19/2017 2:12 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
>> Hi -
>> 
>> From the download page there is a link to Building Guides:
>> 
>> This goes
>> to https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>> 
>> I don’t think that this leads to the most up to date information. Where
>> is the most up to date information?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
> Dave;
> 
> At the bottom of that page there is a link to the step by step guides at
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step
> 
> Regards
> Keith
> 



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Re: Download Pages for 4.1.4?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

OK. We should be able to fix these js filenames so that users don’t have to 
clear cache. by versioning the following files:






> Did we miss a clause here for mac32?
In download.js:
// If version is '4.1.0' (or newer) and platform is 'Mac OS X <= 10.6', 
show the none-availability to the user.
if( ( DL.VERSION_SEL === "4.1.3" || DL.VERSION_SEL === "4.1.2" || 
DL.VERSION_SEL === "4.1.1" || DL.VERSION_SEL === "4.1.0" ) && DL.PLATFORM === 
"mac32" ) {
// Show an error message that the chosen items do not lead to a 
download.

Should we use DL.VERSION_SEL >= “4.1.0”? If so then we won’t need to version 
download.js.

In globalvars.js:

// Stable release: General properties.
DL.VERSION  = "4.1.4";  // Release version in 
full format "x.y.z".
DL.VERSION_SHORT= DL.VERSION;   // Release version in 
short format "x.y".
DL.MILESTONE= "AOO414m5";   // Milestone ID (from 
AOO build system).
DL.BUILD= "9788";   // Build ID (from AOO 
build system).
DL.SVN_REV  = "r1811857";   // SVN revision.
DL.REL_DATE = "2017-Oct-19";// Date of the public 
announced release.
DL.PREV_VERSION = "4.1.3";  // Release of the 
previous version.
DL.OLDVERSION   = "3.4.1";  // Old version (last 
stable release of 3.x series).
DL.LEGACYVERSION= "3.3.0";  // Old legacy version 
(last stable none-Apache release).

In msg_prop_l10n_en.js:

l10n.dl_rel_notes_aoo414_link = 
"https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.1.4+Release+Notes;;
l10n.dl_rel_notes_aoo413_link = 
"https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.1.3+Release+Notes;;
l10n.dl_rel_notes_aoo412_link = 
"https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.1.2+Release+Notes;;
l10n.dl_rel_notes_aoo411_link = 
"https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.1.1+Release+Notes;;
l10n.dl_rel_notes_aoo410_link = 
"https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.1+Release+Notes;;
l10n.dl_rel_notes_aoo401_link = 
"https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.0.1+Release+Notes;;
l10n.dl_rel_notes_aoo400_link = 
"https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.0+Release+Notes;;

In release_matrix.js:
/* Description for AOO 4.1.4.
 *
 * For the matrix position and their meanings see the descriptions on top of 
file.
 */
DL.release_matrix_414 = {
….

Regards,
Dave

> On Oct 19, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi -
> 
> I’m seeing that the banner on www.openoffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org/> 
> has the 4.1.4 release announced on the release, but the download pages are 
> yet to be changed.
> 
> Is the change in progress?
> 
> Regards,
> Dave



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Re: What are the requirements for volunteers who want to edit web-pages?

[Dave Fisher]

Great!

The PMC should discuss giving this person committer rights. This is done on the 
private@ mailing list.

Regards,
Dave

> On Oct 23, 2017, at 11:56 AM, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> on the de-dev list has offered a volunteer help in updating the German 
> web-pages.
> 
> What are the requirements for access to the CMS?
> 
> The volunteer has been known as an active member of the German mailing lists 
> (de-users, de-dev) for about 3 years. He is not (currently) a committer and 
> not a programmer.
> 
> (if it helps, I could guarantee for this volunteer)
> 
> 
> greetings,
> Jörg
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
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> 



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Re: FYI: The OO 4.1.4 Mac problem

[Dave Fisher]

I have my Sierra MacBook and my early 2008 iMac with 10.7.5 with a replaced 
drive (damaged from smoke from wine country fires (it had 10.6)) ready for 
testing.

> On Nov 15, 2017, at 1:38 PM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> I have a 10.9/Mavericks with Xcode 6.2 VM up and running. I am
> building 4.1.4 on it as we speak. Will let people know asap.
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 



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Re: AOO 4.1.5-dev builds

[Dave Fisher]

We have regressions in 4.1.4. Until we get a fix out in either 4.2.0 or 4.1.5 
we will continue to get bug reports. These will distract our volunteers and 
impact our users.

We owe it to our users to be quick.

Regarding 4.2.0. What are the new features and is everything being worked into 
trunk complete? If we were to decide to release it “quickly” what needs to be 
done?

Regards,
Dave

> On Nov 22, 2017, at 8:34 AM, Peter kovacs  wrote:
> 
> I think to use 4.2.0 directly is causing less regression then to backport  a 
> subset of fixes on the 4.1.x tree and then test for regressions.
> 
> If the fix is indeed successfull with the build changes, we should release 
> the new build, and go on.
> 
> 
> Am 22. November 2017 13:05:14 MEZ schrieb Patricia Shanahan :
>> I see 4.1.5-dev as a device for testing whether a bug is due to a
>> specific problem. That change is already checked in to the trunk.
>> 
>> We still have to decide whether to go straight to 4.2.0. The upside is,
>> 
>> as Damjam points out, that we need to get the general benefits of 4.2
>> out in the field. The downside is that, because of more changes, 4.2.0
>> has a higher risk of regression. Should 4.2.0 go through field
>> beta-testing?
>> 
>> Going to 4.2.0 would simplify my activities. Because of better debug
>> building and on general principles, I do my debug and fixing in trunk.
>> I
>> then have to back port the fixes to the 4.1.x line.
>> 
>> On 11/22/2017 2:37 AM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>>> Thank you, but when are these 4.1.x releases going to stop?
>>> 
>>> We have so much lined up for 4.2.0.
>>> 
>>> Damjan
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Jim Jagielski 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 I have both macOS and Linux-64bit builds of 4.1.5-dev (HEAD on the
 AOO415 branch) available for fun and games (and testing) at:
 
 http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/
 
 I've built all langs but have just uploaded: de, en-US, es, fr
 and ja (for now). Let me know if people want/need others
 uploaded.
 
 
>> -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
 
 
>>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: AOO 4.2.0-dev builds

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jim,

When I try the 4.2.0-dev build on Lion - 10.7.5 I get the following error 
report.

Process: launchd [304]
Path:/Applications/OpenOffice.app/Contents/MacOS/soffice
Identifier:  org.openoffice.script
Version: ??? (???)
Code Type:   X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process:  launchd [124]

Date/Time:   2017-11-30 08:01:45.999 -0800
OS Version:  Mac OS X 10.7.5 (11G63)
Report Version:  9

Interval Since Last Report:  123093 sec
Crashes Since Last Report:   26
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report:   10
Anonymous UUID:  3E2C95F9-7BA1-4D3B-A2CA-770E8D2ADA86

Crashed Thread:  Unknown

Exception Type:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x7fff5fc01028

Backtrace not available

Unknown thread crashed with X86 Thread State (64-bit):
  rax: 0x0055  rbx: 0x  rcx: 0x  
rdx: 0x
  rdi: 0x  rsi: 0x  rbp: 0x  
rsp: 0x
   r8: 0x   r9: 0x  r10: 0x  
r11: 0x
  r12: 0x  r13: 0x  r14: 0x  
r15: 0x
  rip: 0x7fff5fc01028  rfl: 0x00010203  cr2: 0x7fff5fc01028
Logical CPU: 0

Binary images description not available


External Modification Summary:
  Calls made by other processes targeting this process:
task_for_pid: 1
thread_create: 0
thread_set_state: 0
  Calls made by this process:
task_for_pid: 0
thread_create: 0
thread_set_state: 0
  Calls made by all processes on this machine:
task_for_pid: 404
thread_create: 0
thread_set_state: 0

Model: iMac8,1, BootROM IM81.00C1.B00, 2 processors, Intel Core 2 Duo, 3.06 
GHz, 4 GB, SMC 1.30f1
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS, NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS, PCIe, 512 MB
Memory Module: BANK 0/DIMM0, 2 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, 667 MHz, 0xCE00, 
0x4D342037305435363633435A332D43453620
Memory Module: BANK 1/DIMM1, 2 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, 667 MHz, 0xCE00, 
0x4D342037305435363633435A332D43453620
AirPort: spairport_wireless_card_type_airport_extreme (0x14E4, 0x8C), Broadcom 
BCM43xx 1.0 (5.10.131.36.15)
Bluetooth: Version 4.0.8f17, 2 service, 18 devices, 1 incoming serial ports
Network Service: Wi-Fi, AirPort, en1
Serial ATA Device: ST1000DX002-2DV162, 1 TB
Parallel ATA Device: PIONEER DVD-RW  DVR-K06A
USB Device: Keyboard Hub, apple_vendor_id, 0x1006, 0xfa20 / 2
USB Device: Apple Optical USB Mouse, apple_vendor_id, 0x0304, 0xfa23 / 4
USB Device: Apple Keyboard, apple_vendor_id, 0x0220, 0xfa22 / 3
USB Device: Built-in iSight, apple_vendor_id, 0x8502, 0xfd40 / 2
USB Device: BRCM2046 Hub, 0x0a5c  (Broadcom Corp.), 0x4500, 0x1a10 / 2
USB Device: Bluetooth USB Host Controller, apple_vendor_id, 0x820f, 0x1a11 
/ 3
USB Device: IR Receiver, apple_vendor_id, 0x8242, 0x5d10 / 2

Same machine works with 4.1.5 build w/Apple Java6 legacy and latest Oracle 
Java8.

Regards,
Dave

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 5:27 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> The two 4.1.4 macOS bugs test as fixed on Mac Sierra.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
>> On Nov 27, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Test builds for 4.2.0-dev for Linux64, Windows and macOS are now
>> available at:
>> 
>>   http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816311/ 
>> <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816311/>
>> 
>> 
> 



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Re: AOO 4.2.0-dev builds

[Dave Fisher]

Cool!

> On Nov 30, 2017, at 8:31 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> Just a FYI that so far, my 4.2.0 tests that haven't been uploaded
> yet seem to work under 10.7.5!
> 
> 



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[PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not having a 
lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think about 
releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an advantage for 
the project and might serve to bring in more of the community as QA volunteers.

Regards,
Dave


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Re: AOO 4.2.0-dev builds

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jim,

The two 4.1.4 macOS bugs test as fixed on Mac Sierra.

Regards,
Dave

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> Test builds for 4.2.0-dev for Linux64, Windows and macOS are now
> available at:
> 
>http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816311/ 
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PROPOSAL] Public Beta for 4.2

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jim -

Works and fixes both 4.1.4 bugs on both 10.7.5 and 10.12.6.

Seems to require Java 6 for Base to work on 10.7.5.

Regards,
Dave

> On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:08 AM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> 
> My latest 4.2.0-dev builds are available at
> 
>http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/ 
> <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/AOO-4.2.0-dev-r1816768/>
> 
> But these are dmg's not installers.
> 
>> On Dec 1, 2017, at 11:58 AM, Matthias Seidel <matthias.sei...@hamburg.de> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jim,
>> 
>> Did you have the opportunity to install 4.2.0 on macOS?
>> 
>> I would be interested if the new icon does show up:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/setup_native/source/mac/ooo3_installer.icns
>> 
>> I created it on Windows with a program called "iConvertIcons" and had no
>> chance to test it.
>> 
>> Regards, Matthias
>> 
>> 
>> Am 01.12.2017 um 03:41 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>>> I like it. I already have Linux, Windows and macOS 4.2.0-dev builds 
>>> available
>>> (http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/ 
>>> <http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/>) for some langs
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 30, 2017, at 5:15 PM, Marcus <marcus.m...@wtnet.de> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Am 30.11.2017 um 21:26 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>>>>> In light of our current situation with getting builds together but not 
>>>>> having a lot of people doing more than simple QA what does the team think 
>>>>> about releasing a Public Beta for 4.2.0? I think that this would be an 
>>>>> advantage for the project and might serve to bring in more of the 
>>>>> community as QA volunteers.
>>>> I thought it's without discussion that we need a (long) beta test phase 
>>>> for 4.2.0. So, yes for your proposal.
>>>> 
>>>> We can create a new entry on the download webpage, some advertising areas 
>>>> on the other webpages, and other fine things to make it visible.
>>>> 
>>>> And - also this should be clear already - we need several builds of 4.2.0 
>>>> with further included bugfixes; to show an increasing quality towards the 
>>>> final release build.
>>>> 
>>>> For me the real question is " *When* do we start the beta? ". ;-) I would 
>>>> like to have a specific level of quality that we give to our users. 
>>>> Otherwise we will get spammed by bug reports which nobody wants to handle.
>>>> 
>>>> Marcus
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 



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Re: [DISCUSS][VOTE] New Apache OpenOffice PMC Chair

[Dave Fisher]

Thanks for this Peter. Let’s just focus on what we can control!

Best Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 15, 2017, at 1:19 AM, Peter kovacs  wrote:
> 
> I am sorry for the confusion I am causing.
> Sometimes I get stuck in topics, and overrated them due to an inner loop of 
> focus.
> In this case it were to not give attackspace to possible trolls. That's why I 
> called it Libre Office troll feedback loop. Libre does only show up because 
> they use Libre for stumping on us.
> There is no one involved except me and my other 1000 versions of myself. ;)
> I hate when this happens because I tend to do stupid things. And I need time 
> to clear such loops up.
> 
> In the end it is important that someone does  the chair job and Carl or 
> myself will need to make time for it.
> We can spend the time well for other things.
> I don't have to do this but will if selected.
> I think same goes for Carl.
> That's all I think is important to know.
> 
> I am really sorry.
> 
> Am 14. Dezember 2017 20:38:36 MEZ schrieb Marcus :
>>> Am 14.12.2017 um 09:21 schrieb Peter kovacs:
>>> It is not about what we agree upon.
>>> This is a public vote. And whoever gives a vote is deciding now.
>>> 
>>> Maybe this is an effect from trolling against us, but I do not think
>> there is space for public weakness or naivete. (And I try not do do
>> both...)
>>> I thought about putting my preferences into my description and
>> decided against it because it would weaken the project.
>>> I was really thankful on Andrea's words. Which are nicely written,
>> but I thought again it would be a weakness to show the thankfullnes so
>> I stoped to write the comment and my vote.
>>> 
>>> Sorry if I over complicate things.
>>> I really do not mind whoever gets the job. We have all much to do and
>> only little time.
>>> 
>>> So I am now again late for work :(
>>> I really hate the "Libre Office troll feedback loop"!
>> 
>> now I'm confused. Why is Libre Office influencing this vote? I don't
>> see 
>> any connections.
>> 
>> Marcus
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 14. Dezember 2017 03:11:32 MEZ schrieb Carl Marcum
>> :
 On 12/13/2017 07:08 PM, Peter kovacs wrote:
> I am confused. There was no proper " I do not want to candidate
 anymore mail."
> But maybe my English is not good enough.
> 
> A one candidate vote is something completely different as between
>> 2+
 candidates. Such a step should be well thought of if this is really
>> the
 right step.
> 
> Also I would like to know how do you count votes for Carl if he has
 resigned, which I doubt.
> 
> Not so happy
> peter
> 
> 
 
 
 Hi Peter,
 
 I can still be in and prefer you become Chair this time.
 
 If I misunderstood your desire to be Chair I apologize.
 
 I stepped up to make sure we had a new chair even though my workload
>> is
 
 very high right now.
 
 I thought you had changed your mind about waiting until next year.
 
 If you do not want it, My offer still stands and I'll stand in.
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 
> -
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 


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Re: svn commit: r1815764 - in /openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext: check.Update index.html

[Dave Fisher]

Got it. Thank you.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 20, 2017, at 5:42 AM, Matthias Seidel <matthias.sei...@hamburg.de> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> aoonext=trunk
> I just wanted to get rid of the error message when searching for updates
> in 4.2.0. ;-)
> 
> I can add it for 4.1.5 if we really need it. It's just a dummy.
> 
> Kind regards, Matthias
> 
> 
>> Am 20.11.2017 um 04:38 schrieb Dave Fisher:
>> Isn’t the next version 4.1.5? Of course this just came up today!
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Dave
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 19, 2017, at 4:24 PM, msei...@apache.org wrote:
>>> 
>>> Author: mseidel
>>> Date: Mon Nov 20 00:24:38 2017
>>> New Revision: 1815764
>>> 
>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1815764=rev
>>> Log:
>>> Correct version numbers
>>> 
>>> Modified:
>>>   openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/check.Update
>>>   openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/index.html
>>> 
>>> Modified: openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/check.Update
>>> URL: 
>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/check.Update?rev=1815764=1815763=1815764=diff
>>> ==
>>> --- openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/check.Update (original)
>>> +++ openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/check.Update Mon Nov 20 00:24:38 
>>> 2017
>>> @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
>>> 
>>> -
>>> +
>>> >> xmlns:inst="http://installation.openoffice.org/description;>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Modified: openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/index.html
>>> URL: 
>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/index.html?rev=1815764=1815763=1815764=diff
>>> ==
>>> --- openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/index.html (original)
>>> +++ openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/index.html Mon Nov 20 00:24:38 
>>> 2017
>>> @@ -2,11 +2,11 @@
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> -Apache OpenOffice Product Update Service for installed AOO 
>>> 4.1.5 instances
>>> +Apache OpenOffice Product Update Service for installed AOO 
>>> 4.2.0 instances
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Apache OpenOffice Product Update Service for installed AOO 4.1.5 
>>> instances
>>> -Folder containing update service feed for AOO 4.1.5 users 
>>> performing the update check and getting the message about an available new 
>>> version.
>>> +Apache OpenOffice Product Update Service for installed AOO 4.2.0 
>>> instances
>>> +Folder containing update service feed for AOO 4.2.0 users 
>>> performing the update check and getting the message about an available new 
>>> version.
>>>contents...check.Update ... xml feed 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 
> 
> 


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Re: FYI: The OO 4.1.4 Mac problem

[Dave Fisher]

Great!

Another regression was just reported -

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=127600

I wonder if it is fixed too?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2017, at 10:17 AM, Larry Gusaas  wrote:
> 
> Database and Spreadsheets both work. Regressions are fixed. I haven't done 
> any further testing yet.
> 
> Larry
> 
>> On 2017-11-18, 9:13 AM Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> fingers-crossed...
>> 
>> I have updated the files in devtools related to my successful build of AOO 
>> 4.1.4
>> for macOS that appears to fix both regressions.
>> 
>> Basically:
>> 
>>  o I had to use Xcode7 on Sierra
>>  o I had to compile frameworks w/ -O1 instead of -O2
>> 
>> Uploads to our dev dist repo are happening as we speak.
>> 
>> __
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -
> 
> Larry I. Gusaas
> Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan   Canada
> Website:  http://larry-gusaas.com
> 
> “To me, photography is the simultaneous recognition, in a fraction of a 
> second, of the significance of an event as well as of a precise organization 
> of forms which give that event its proper expression.” Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
> "An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." 
> - Edgard Varese
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 

Re: svn commit: r1815764 - in /openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext: check.Update index.html

[Dave Fisher]

Isn’t the next version 4.1.5? Of course this just came up today!

Thanks,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 19, 2017, at 4:24 PM, msei...@apache.org wrote:
> 
> Author: mseidel
> Date: Mon Nov 20 00:24:38 2017
> New Revision: 1815764
> 
> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1815764=rev
> Log:
> Correct version numbers
> 
> Modified:
>openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/check.Update
>openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/index.html
> 
> Modified: openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/check.Update
> URL: 
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/check.Update?rev=1815764=1815763=1815764=diff
> ==
> --- openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/check.Update (original)
> +++ openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/check.Update Mon Nov 20 00:24:38 
> 2017
> @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
> 
> -
> +
> http://installation.openoffice.org/description;>
> 
> 
> Modified: openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/index.html
> URL: 
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/index.html?rev=1815764=1815763=1815764=diff
> ==
> --- openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/index.html (original)
> +++ openoffice/updates-site/trunk/aoonext/index.html Mon Nov 20 00:24:38 2017
> @@ -2,11 +2,11 @@
> 
> 
> 
> -Apache OpenOffice Product Update Service for installed AOO 4.1.5 
> instances
> +Apache OpenOffice Product Update Service for installed AOO 4.2.0 
> instances
> 
> 
> -Apache OpenOffice Product Update Service for installed AOO 4.1.5 
> instances
> -Folder containing update service feed for AOO 4.1.5 users performing 
> the update check and getting the message about an available new version.
> +Apache OpenOffice Product Update Service for installed AOO 4.2.0 
> instances
> +Folder containing update service feed for AOO 4.2.0 users performing 
> the update check and getting the message about an available new version.
> contents...check.Update ... xml feed 
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Re: FYI: The OO 4.1.4 Mac problem

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jim -

Good news.

I’m out of pocket until tomorrow evening. Perhaps Larry is available.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 18, 2017, at 7:43 AM, Matthias Seidel  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> That would be great!
> 
> Unfortunately I can't help with testing on macOS...
> 
> Regards, Matthias
> 
> 
>> Am 18.11.2017 um 16:13 schrieb Jim Jagielski:
>> fingers-crossed...
>> 
>> I have updated the files in devtools related to my successful build of AOO 
>> 4.1.4
>> for macOS that appears to fix both regressions.
>> 
>> Basically:
>> 
>> o I had to use Xcode7 on Sierra
>> o I had to compile frameworks w/ -O1 instead of -O2
>> 
>> Uploads to our dev dist repo are happening as we speak.
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
> 
> 


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Fwd: [Issue 127596] New: Calc with DDE don't close and prevent windows 10 copy/paste

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Patricia,

This smells like a manifestation of the null link resource link you are fixing.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: bugzi...@apache.org
> Date: November 17, 2017 at 8:07:20 AM PST
> To: iss...@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [Issue 127596] New: Calc with DDE don't close and prevent windows 10 
> copy/paste
> Reply-To: iss...@openoffice.apache.org
> 
> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=127596
> 
>  Issue ID: 127596
>Issue Type: DEFECT
>   Summary: Calc with DDE don't close and prevent windows 10
>copy/paste
>   Product: Calc
>   Version: 4.1.4
>  Hardware: PC
>OS: Windows 10
>Status: UNCONFIRMED
>  Severity: Normal
>  Priority: P5 (lowest)
> Component: ui
>  Assignee: iss...@openoffice.apache.org
>  Reporter: mauriciokata...@gmail.com
>  Target Milestone: ---
> 
> I didn't know why my PC desktop's copy/paste function eventualy stops working
> until I updated also the openoffice on my Windows 10 notebook from 4.1.3 to
> 4.1.4 version. Suddenly it started to happen on it. 
> 
> I use a Brazilian software called "ProfitChart Pro"  to financial market and a
> calc spreadsheet liked to it via DDE link.
> 
> Calc never closes completely. The windows does but it's process stay on memory
> and accumulates no matter how many time I open it and closes again.
> 
> Closing all frozen instances, copy and paste works again.
> 
> I've uninstalled 4.1.4 and instaled back the 4.1.3 version on nboth computers
> and wverything is working fine.
> 
> -- 
> You are receiving this mail because:
> You are the assignee for the issue.

Re: AOO 4.1.5-dev builds

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Both regressions are fixed in the new build.

Also, it looks like all of the versioning has been changed correctly. At least 
on the about box and readme files.

I tried to test issue 127600 but I can’t understand what was done in the first 
place.

Regards,
Dave

> On Nov 20, 2017, at 10:18 AM, Larry Gusaas  wrote:
> 
> Database & spreadsheet regressions fixed.
> Larry
> 
> On 2017-11-20, 9:49 AM Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> I have both macOS and Linux-64bit builds of 4.1.5-dev (HEAD on the
>> AOO415 branch) available for fun and games (and testing) at:
>> 
>> http://home.apache.org/~jim/AOO-builds/
>> 
>> I've built all langs but have just uploaded: de, en-US, es, fr
>> and ja (for now). Let me know if people want/need others
>> uploaded.
>> 
>> __
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> _
> 
> Larry I. Gusaas
> Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
> Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
> 
> "An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." 
> - Edgard Varese
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 



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Re: FYI: The OO 4.1.4 Mac problem

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jim,

It is mysterious. I went through the diff and I'll note somethings I see which 
may or may not matter.

(1) configure
Switches are in different order.
Old build has the “kid” language first.

(2) Path
Your /Users/jim/bin and /usr/local/bin is sooner in the path than original 
builder’s
Finds perl in differing location:
 configure:7764: checking for perl
-configure:7794: result: /usr/bin/perl
+configure:7782: found /Users/jim/bin/perl
+configure:7794: result: /Users/jim/bin/perl
 configure:7815: checking the Perl version

(3) Custom pack.list is used in the successful original build:
 configure:5485: checking for custom pack.lst
-configure:5496: result: /Users/jsc/dev/svn/aoo-build-pack.lst
+configure:5499: result: no

(4) Your Python seems to be mixed. Look at the includes on the clang lines.

+configure:13311: checking which python to use
+configure:13320: result: compiling against system python (/usr/bin/python)
+configure:13327: result: compiling against system python (version 2.7)
+configure:13585: checking Python.h usability
+configure:13585: 
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/clang
 -arch x86_64 -c -g -O2  
-I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.10.sdk/usr/include/python2.7
 conftest.c >&5
+configure:13585: $? = 0
+configure:13585: result: yes
+configure:13585: checking Python.h presence
+configure:13585: 
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/clang
 -arch x86_64 -E  
-I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.10.sdk/usr/include/python2.7
 conftest.c

VS.

-configure:13338: checking which python to use
-configure:13347: result: compiling against system python 
(/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin/python)
-configure:13354: result: compiling against system python (version 2.7)
-configure:13612: checking Python.h usability
-configure:13612: 
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/clang
 -arch x86_64 -c -g -O2  
-I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/include/python2.7 
conftest.c >&5
-configure:13612: $? = 0
-configure:13612: result: yes
-configure:13612: checking Python.h presence
-configure:13612: 
/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/clang
 -arch x86_64 -E  
-I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/include/python2.7 conftest.c

(5) Jakarta-ant vs. ant.

-configure:22390: checking for jakarta-ant
-configure:22421: result: /Users/jsc/dev/tools/apache-ant-1.9.3/dist/bin/ant

+configure:22363: checking for jakarta-ant
+configure:22397: result: no
+configure:22363: checking for ant
+configure:22382: found /usr/local/share/java/apache-ant/bin/ant
+configure:22394: result: /usr/local/share/java/apache-ant/bin/ant

(6) TARFILE_LOCATIONS environment variable:
-TARFILE_LOCATION='/Users/jsc/dev/svn/aoo410/ext_sources'
+TARFILE_LOCATION='DEFAULT'

Regards,
Dave

> On Nov 16, 2017, at 10:40 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> OK, I am pretty much almost out of ideas. I've created a VM which is
> almost an exact match for what I could determine was the build
> environ for 4.1.2. Attached is a patch file that shows the diffs between
> the config.out for 4.1.2 and my build of 4.1.2. My build doesn't suffer
> from the corrupted diagram but it DOES still suffer from the table/Database
> regression. AFAIK, the official 4.1.2 build suffers from neither.
> 
> So what is causing this weird behavior I simply don't know... As
> one can see, there's nothing, at least as reported by config.log, which is
> different and this is straight from
> 
>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/tags/AOO412
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org



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Re: FYI: The OO 4.1.4 Mac problem

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Peter,

I wasted my time on Sierra and have asked your same question a few times. 
Andrea just sent a link to a BZ and mail thread regarding how Ariel got 4.1.3 
to work. That information only partially made it to the Wiki instructions.

Let’s wait for Jim to absorb this new information and then I want to do the 
same from a “virgin” Mac with the correct MacOSX.

We need a precise prescription if we need something from either MacPort or 
Homebrew then PICK ONE! We may need an area to store things that are now hard 
to download from Apple like JDK 1.7.

Unless Jim has a new version to test I am done until Monday.

Regards,
Dave

> On Nov 16, 2017, at 11:06 AM, Peter kovacs  wrote:
> 
> What is your base for determine the build environment?
> 
> I want to make time next week to try to build on my MacBook. Maybe I can come 
> up with something. But no promises.
> 
> Maybe until we have some new idea, we should start with 4.2.0. Is trunk 
> affected too?
> 
> Am 16. November 2017 19:40:17 MEZ schrieb Jim Jagielski :
>> OK, I am pretty much almost out of ideas. I've created a VM which is
>> almost an exact match for what I could determine was the build
>> environ for 4.1.2. Attached is a patch file that shows the diffs
>> between
>> the config.out for 4.1.2 and my build of 4.1.2. My build doesn't suffer
>> from the corrupted diagram but it DOES still suffer from the
>> table/Database
>> regression. AFAIK, the official 4.1.2 build suffers from neither.
>> 
>> So what is causing this weird behavior I simply don't know... As
>> one can see, there's nothing, at least as reported by config.log, which
>> is
>> different and this is straight from
>> 
>>  https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/tags/AOO412
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 



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Re: FYI: The OO 4.1.4 Mac problem

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Damjan,

Do you have any tips or pointers regarding the Base issue we are having with 
Builds on MacOS?

I’m seeing your comments on https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=126655 
and can’t help but wonder if the code is fragile here. If nothing else some 
help tracing the code could help.

Does the Redland configuration and the update in trunk help us here?

Regards,
Dave

> On Nov 16, 2017, at 10:40 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> OK, I am pretty much almost out of ideas. I've created a VM which is
> almost an exact match for what I could determine was the build
> environ for 4.1.2. Attached is a patch file that shows the diffs between
> the config.out for 4.1.2 and my build of 4.1.2. My build doesn't suffer
> from the corrupted diagram but it DOES still suffer from the table/Database
> regression. AFAIK, the official 4.1.2 build suffers from neither.
> 
> So what is causing this weird behavior I simply don't know... As
> one can see, there's nothing, at least as reported by config.log, which is
> different and this is straight from
> 
>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/tags/AOO412
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org



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Re: FYI: The OO 4.1.4 Mac problem

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Jim,

Base works in 4.1.0, 4.1.1 and 4.1.3.

Regards,
Dave

> On Nov 16, 2017, at 12:52 PM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> 
> These builds are on AOO412. At this stage I'm just trying to get too-4.1.2
> on my mac builder to generate a build that matches our released version.
> 
> Oh gr I just downloaded our 4.1.2 GA release and IT ALSO suffers
> from the table/database issue :( I've been wasting all this time assuming
> tha 4.1.2 worked for both regressions.
> 
>> On Nov 16, 2017, at 3:36 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jim,
>> 
>> Thanks. These kind of builds helps me appreciate our modern world of 
>> containers and cleaner dependencies.
>> 
>> I wonder is your build taking the following patch? If so, is the patch still 
>> necessary?
>> 
>> /openoffice/branches/AOO414/main/hsqldb/patches/i121754.patch
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> On Nov 16, 2017, at 12:15 PM, Jim Jagielski <j...@jagunet.com 
>>> <mailto:j...@jagunet.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I appreciate the 2nd set of eyes... I also, of course, went thru the
>>> diff. My point is that none of these seem to be in any way related
>>> to something that would cause such a major change in behavior.
>>> 
>>> Alternatively, if it IS so fragile, then things are majorly borked.
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 16, 2017, at 2:50 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net 
>>>> <mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>> 
>>>> It is mysterious. I went through the diff and I'll note somethings I see 
>>>> which may or may not matter.
>>>> 
>>>> (1) configure
>>>> Switches are in different order.
>>>> Old build has the “kid” language first.
>>>> 
>>>> (2) Path
>>>> Your /Users/jim/bin and /usr/local/bin is sooner in the path than original 
>>>> builder’s
>>>> Finds perl in differing location:
>>>> configure:7764: checking for perl
>>>> -configure:7794: result: /usr/bin/perl
>>>> +configure:7782: found /Users/jim/bin/perl
>>>> +configure:7794: result: /Users/jim/bin/perl
>>>> configure:7815: checking the Perl version
>>>> 
>>>> (3) Custom pack.list is used in the successful original build:
>>>> configure:5485: checking for custom pack.lst
>>>> -configure:5496: result: /Users/jsc/dev/svn/aoo-build-pack.lst
>>>> +configure:5499: result: no
>>>> 
>>>> (4) Your Python seems to be mixed. Look at the includes on the clang lines.
>>>> 
>>>> +configure:13311: checking which python to use
>>>> +configure:13320: result: compiling against system python (/usr/bin/python)
>>>> +configure:13327: result: compiling against system python (version 2.7)
>>>> +configure:13585: checking Python.h usability
>>>> +configure:13585: 
>>>> /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/clang
>>>>  -arch x86_64 -c -g -O2  
>>>> -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.10.sdk/usr/include/python2.7
>>>>  conftest.c >&5
>>>> +configure:13585: $? = 0
>>>> +configure:13585: result: yes
>>>> +configure:13585: checking Python.h presence
>>>> +configure:13585: 
>>>> /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/clang
>>>>  -arch x86_64 -E  
>>>> -I/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.10.sdk/usr/include/python2.7
>>>>  conftest.c
>>>> 
>>>> VS.
>>>> 
>>>> -configure:13338: checking which python to use
>>>> -configure:13347: result: compiling against system python 
>>>> (/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin/python)
>>>> -configure:13354: result: compiling against system python (version 2.7)
>>>> -configure:13612: checking Python.h usability
>>>> -configure:13612: 
>>>> /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Toolchains/XcodeDefault.xctoolchain/usr/bin/clang
>>>>  -arch x86_64 -c -g -O2  
>>>> -I/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/include/python2.7 
>>>> conftest.c >&5
>>>> -configure:13612: $? = 0
>>>> -configure:13612: result: yes
>>>> -configure:13612: checkin