RE: Apache@ OSCON question
I am willing to make a day trip from Seattle to the OSCON Expo Hall. That is affordable for me and appealing if can meet ASF and especially AOO folks that I have not yet met in person. (I have started some work on change- tracking for which there might be discussion interest as well.) I don't follow the OpenOffice dev list these days. It helps if I am CC-ed in any discussion there that is aided by my being at OSCON. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 01:49 To: d...@community.apache.org Subject: Re: Apache@ OSCON question Melissa Warnkin wrote: I can make room on the table for pins. When you refer to leaflet and roll-up designs, what is that and how much real estate would they take up? I'll explain better: physical objects are not available, meaning that either they haven't been printed yet or they are in Europe and it's unpractical to deliver them to OSCON in the US. This is why I focus on the designs, since stuff would have to be reprinted anyway. We have designs available for: - A4 leaflets, in color (suitable b/w too) https://flic.kr/p/dSDcDC - A roll-up like this one, roughly 80x200cm: https://flic.kr/p/dSDcB5 So for these two items the main issue is whether someone is attending FOSDEM and can print them. Pins with the OpenOffice logo used to be a quite successful giveaway that we could look into redesigning (we don't have the original files, but they had the old logo) and reprinting. Again, I don't know whether it makes sense to print stuff in Europe and ship it to the US... But Kay feel free to bring this to the OpenOffice dev list and we can find some ideas there, provided that someone is actually going to attend OSCON or the Expo Hall! Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Work on Change-Tracking
Louis, I ended my OASIS membership at renewal time in August 2013. I have not submitted any of my current work to the ODF TC or the W3C change-tracking community group. I occasionally glance at their lists and the JIRA, just to gauge what is going on. That is all. I will probably use the comment lists when my investigations uncover anything that might need repair in an errata. In May, I was inspired to look into change-tracking anew when I saw the interest of the OSB Alliance at http://www.osb-alliance.de/en/working-groups/projekte/major-features-in-loaoo/. Although I had not been thinking about it much, I realized that it is indeed possible to accomplish what they want by relatively simple repairs to the current ODF 1.2 approach. I had no interest in responding to the request for tender, however. I did start investigating ODF 1.2 tracked-changes, conducting tedious case analysis, and developing of a profile that could be used as an extension of what is already in ODF 1.2 and current implementations. It may well be much easier to describe than to implement, and that remains to be resolved. If there is to be implementation, it should be developed in Apache OpenOffice and thereby available to all other implementations in the openoffice.org lineage. I am unfolding this on a set of web pages. Currently, there is a bare skeleton, starting at http://nfoworks.org/notes/2014/05/n140501.htm and the other content that is linked to there. All of that work will be conducted in public and be available under Creative Commons Attribution license. I don't expect there to be any code, although I foresee a suite of test documents that do not disturb current software while including the foreign attributes that support the repairing extensions. Coincidentally, I have been encouraged to submit to a forthcoming workshop. If my submission is accepted, there will be presentation of progress and a short paper in 3rd Quarter, 2014. The work is just starting. Here is an abstract: Editing of word-processing documents at the presentation level, with visible tracking of changes, operates at a different level of abstraction and granularity than representation of the document in common document-file formats. The consequent mismatches are demonstrated using OpenDocument format provisions for tracked changes. A selection-copy analogy is introduced for bridging the abstraction levels while adhering to file-format provisions. The enhancements improve reliability and interoperability and are implementable incrementally without obsoleting current software and documents. Here's something I needed so that I could link my analysis to it. It was fun to figure out how to accomplish in a reliable way: http://nfoworks.org/notes/2014/05/n140504f1.htm. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A -Original Message- From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 01:06 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; Dennis E. Hamilton Cc: Andrea Pescetti; Kay Schenk; Melissa Warnkin Subject: Re: Apache@ OSCON question HI Dennis, *, On 21 Jun 2014, at 21:01, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: I am willing to make a day trip from Seattle to the OSCON Expo Hall. That is affordable for me and appealing if can meet ASF and especially AOO folks that I have not yet met in person. (I have started some work on change- tracking for which there might be discussion interest as well.) Are you demonstrating this work on the Oasis lists? I don't follow the office@ list any longer. And by change tracking, what do you mean, exactly? If that's too broad a question, feel free to ignore it or answer off list, if it seems beside the point of this list to you. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Work on Change-Tracking
Louis, you ask an interesting question. I checked on the ODF SDK incubator project and there is no specific support for change-tracking of any flavor there. The higher-level Document API (called Simple API historically) has no methods for enabling, reviewing, or even recognizing tracked changes. Although that API could hide the complexities of change-tracking, there is no indication that it is going on under the covers. In particular, there is no way to provide the provenance metadata that is stored with a tracked change (the office:change-info element). I have no idea what would happen at the Simple API on manipulating a document that already had tracked-change information in it. The lower-level ODF DOM API has classes that are derived from the ODF Document RNG Schema, so the piece parts have to be there -- that is, the element types involved in tracked-changes are all present in the DOM and presumably they place properly within the hierarchical structure of the document format. Coordination between change marks and components within a text:tracked-changes element are apparently an exercise left to the student. Although the ODF DOM classes are derived from the ODF Document RNG Schema, there is evidently a prospect for introducing foreign elements, attributes, and attribute values. I have not looked deeply enough to see how the necessary namespace bindings can be introduced for foreign elements and attributes (and foreign QNames and prefixes in attribute values). I'm not certain how the ODF SDK is helpful in this area, unless it is for proof-of-concept work and manufacturing of test documents. It is something to think about. It is also important to determine whether documents with tracked changes of any sort can be manipulated via the ODF SDK, especially the Simple API. I also think it would be interesting to see what the ODF Validator that is part of the ODF SDK project would do or could be adapted to handle with regard to documents complicated by the presence of tracked changes. I don't know how much referential-integrity checking is done at that level, although it would be useful to have that with regard to all cases of cross-referencing within the document structure. Thanks for raising that question. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Louis Suárez-Potts [mailto:lui...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 11:05 To: Dennis E. Hamilton Cc: Andrea Pescetti; dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Work on Change-Tracking [ ... ] This is pretty interesting, Dennis! But it makes me wonder. Do we have an updated (that is, current) ODF SDK? (Perhaps out of the ODF Toolkit project?) -louis [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Apache OpenOffice
An alternative would be to install the free PPT viewer, which should autoplay .PPS files. -Original Message- From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 13:28 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Cc: Margo Haubein Subject: Re: Apache OpenOffice On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 12:52:35 -0500 Margo Haubein g.haub...@att.net wrote: can it be used with win. 8.1? can PPS files on email be opened? Yes, it can be used on 8.1. I don't think pps files from emails will autoplay; as far as I know, you can rename them to .ppt and show then as a manual slideshow. -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Reporting broken download link
In Apache_Open_Office_4.1.0_Win_x_86_intsall_nl_exe is intsall correct, not install? -Original Message- From: jokesimm...@gmail.com [mailto:jokesimm...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 04:32 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Reporting broken download link Marcus I'm using the link https://www.opem.office.org/nl/ than;Download - Windows (exe) - Dutch Download volledige installatie Wilt u Apache_Open_Office_4.1.0_Win_x_86_intsall_nl_exe 132MB from switch.dl.sourceforge.net uitvoeren of opslaan I give the instruction to uitvoeren My Norton 360says it is not a safe installation and removes it. WS.Reputation 1 Hope this will be enough for you to give me advice what to do. Regards Joke Simmers Verzonden met Windows Mail Van: Marcus (OOo) Verzonden: dinsdag 1 juli 2014 20:13 Aan: dev@openoffice.apache.org CC: Joke Simmers Thanks for your report. Please can you give us more information about the problem? Then it is hopefully more clear what was happening: - The exact link from where you try to download. - The exact wording of the error message. Thanks in advance. Marcus Am 07/01/2014 12:22 PM, schrieb jokesimm...@gmail.com: Ik krijg een melding dat Open Office niet kan worden gedownload op mijn Laptop t.w. een Packard Bell met Windows 8.1 er op. Is hij niet beschikbaar voor Windows 8.1 English translation (via Google translate): [...] I get a message that OpenOffice can not be downloaded on my Laptop tw a Packard Bell with Windows 8.1 on it. He is not available for Windows 8.1 [...] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Reporting broken download link
1. Disable Norton 360 before downloading. 2. For download, do not select open, select Save and place in a memorable location (your Download folder, for example). 3. Use any of the procedures for verifying the Download. This code is not signed, so you will have to use either the PGP or the MD5/SHA verifications. 4. All of these verify that the downloaded file matches the file from which the verification files were produced. The PGP verification will also assert that the file is signed by the release manager, Juergen Schmidt, at Apache OpenOffice, but there may be a warning that you don't have anything by which to trust that is the release manager's signature. That is normal if you do not use PGP regularly and have a collection of public keys that you trust. 5. In Norton 360, see if there is a setting where it will only remove or quarantine files after confirmation by you. This will let you over-rule Norton in the future, verifying the file yourself instead. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A -Original Message- From: jokesimm...@gmail.com [mailto:jokesimm...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 6, 2014 04:32 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Reporting broken download link Marcus I'm using the link https://www.opem.office.org/nl/ than;Download - Windows (exe) - Dutch Download volledige installatie Wilt u Apache_Open_Office_4.1.0_Win_x_86_intsall_nl_exe 132MB from switch.dl.sourceforge.net uitvoeren of opslaan I give the instruction to uitvoeren My Norton 360says it is not a safe installation and removes it. WS.Reputation 1 Hope this will be enough for you to give me advice what to do. Regards Joke Simmers Verzonden met Windows Mail Van: Marcus (OOo) Verzonden: dinsdag 1 juli 2014 20:13 Aan: dev@openoffice.apache.org CC: Joke Simmers Thanks for your report. Please can you give us more information about the problem? Then it is hopefully more clear what was happening: - The exact link from where you try to download. - The exact wording of the error message. Thanks in advance. Marcus Am 07/01/2014 12:22 PM, schrieb jokesimm...@gmail.com: Ik krijg een melding dat Open Office niet kan worden gedownload op mijn Laptop t.w. een Packard Bell met Windows 8.1 er op. Is hij niet beschikbaar voor Windows 8.1 English translation (via Google translate): [...] I get a message that OpenOffice can not be downloaded on my Laptop tw a Packard Bell with Windows 8.1 on it. He is not available for Windows 8.1 [...] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: OOXML
orcnotes below. -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2014 08:57 To: dev Subject: Re: OOXML On 2 August 2014 17:06, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: On 2014-08-02, at 10:24, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: The Support that is done is to receieve OOXML not to produce them, the discussion issue would be to support legacy formats like .doc or .xls. I still dont see a point to generate OOXML and most people dont care as long as they can send in office native formats. I never heard someone saying, please send it on docx, your doc is a closed binary format. Actually, I have. But it also matters on mobile, as well as, I'd guess, for some developing processes for batch conversion of documents. Finally, it's not evident to me that refusing to develop to what is likely to become the major desktop document format globally—alas—is a good strategy that would lead to the adoption of OO. Rather, it seems it would only help those applications that do (express) both ODF *and* .docx well. Please dont forget, the computer business have always had 2 types of standard the official one and the de facto one. For those to young to remember, tcp/ip is not an official standard (OSI was) but something a number of companies decided to promote, I see docx in the same light. orcnote I think this has it backwards. For ages, .doc was the defacto standard And de jure ISO/W3C standards like SGML, ODA, and even XML did not do Anything to dent that. That is now .doc and .docx, however defacto you consider them to be (although they are both now all open formats). I am squarely in the same camp as Peter Kelley and Luis Suarez- Potts with regard to the pragmatic situation that exists. One-way movement to ODF is simply going to be unacceptable, possibly forever, if you are determined to have there must be only one in a niche of like-minded followers. This is unfortunate for one particular reason -- ODF is the only well- established multi-platform document format, thanks to the wider platform support of LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice. (Those also introduce de facto and monoculture factors that are omitted in the marketing speak.) But without a dramatic increase in Linux penetration, this may not dent The state of affairs much. The bigger penetration opportunity is iOS and Android, not Linux. And you may have noticed that Microsoft has figured that out and is moving dramatically to provide OOXML inter- operability via the cloud (especially Sky-/One-Drive and Office Web Apps) and via phone/phablet/tablet presence on Windows 8, WindowsPhone8, Android (including the Amazon flavor), and iOS. There are even provisions for concurrent collaboration already strong in the flag- carrying application, Microsoft OneNote, an openly-documented but not-standardized format. The last time I checked, the OneDrive free in-browser Office Web Apps also support ODF 1.2 documents, although it will convert them to a MSO-compatible cloud subset form if you want to edit them there, even Though retrievable in ODF 1.2. Viewing works out of the box. My impression of the editing pre-conversion is that is a safety measure in case any ODF feature loss is unacceptable and so you still have an intact original there. /orcmid - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: OOXML
In line with the sketch that Peter Kelley provides below, I am personally very sympathetic to the idea of having an internal model that can tolerate difference in format between input and output while preserving in the output everything from the input format it can, even by leaving markers that will be useful on future input of the produced form. (There is a well-known case of Microsoft Office doing this for HTML it exports, although the added information for recovery of the MSO rendition led to many complaints about document bloat.) There are some conflicts between the desire to do this and the fact that some alterations have non-local consequences and may have other effects. I still support the idea, but there are some tricky cases, including - Changes that overlap/conflict with tracked changes but tracked changes are not updated/preserved properly - Accessibility impacts - Digital signature applying to content not observable by the signer - Covert content of various kinds - breaking of RDF/RDA connections into the document (along with failure to preserve markers correctly) The digital signature and covert-content avoidance cases work against preserving material that is not evident in a given application. In the case of ODF, the damage to tracked changes is survivable (with some loss), because the ODF approach is resilient. But not knowing about the tracked changes gets into the digital signature problem if the material is preserved while not being visible to the user. There is also a case around confusion between two consumers having to do with how image renditions in ODF are negotiated, with the consumer presenting the best that it recognizes that is not necessarily the preferable best that the producer listed in the choices it offered in the document. This raises Digital signature considerations as well. I don’t think this should stop the kind of exploration Peter Kelly is embarked upon. At some point, these considerations will surface and it will be interesting to see what a creative accommodation might be. It's not clear to me that the openoffice.org descendants can do much about format ecumenicalism very quickly, if at all, so I have probably gotten pretty off-topic at this point. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail From: Peter Kelly [mailto:kelly...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2014 09:43 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: OOXML On 2 Aug 2014, at 9:24 pm, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: The Support that is done is to receieve OOXML not to produce them, the discussion issue would be to support legacy formats like .doc or .xls. I still dont see a point to generate OOXML and most people dont care as long as they can send in office native formats. I never heard someone saying, please send it on docx, your doc is a closed binary format. I (and I suspect I'm not alone) see a lack of the ability to 1) Save OOXML documents and 2) Do so while preserving all elements, including unsupported features and Microsoft-only data as being the #1 limitation to OpenOffice today. The fact is, OOXML is in practice extremely widely used (vastly more so than ODF) and I argue that if OpenOffice is to have any relevance going forward it must support it, and support it well. The migration path in particular, which I mentioned previously, is not just about importing files but enabling a period of a number of years during which an organisation can effectively work with a mixture of OOXML and ODF documents. This allows the transition to be done incrementally - a company with 30,000 employees will only migrate if there's a way they can do so bit-by-bit, with some departments sticking with OOXML for longer than others. Because there will be people in different departments that need to work together, those who insist on remaining with OOXML for the time being must be able to collaborate in both directions with those who have switched for all their other documents. It's the same situation as the transition Microsoft made from the old binary formats to OOXML - Office 2007 (and all later versions) still support the older formats, for both read and write, and I expect they will continue for some time. If Office 2007 had completely dropped support for saving .doc, .xls, and .ppt, it would have been dead-on-arrival, as it took several years before most people were saving in the newer format by default. Now there is still the question of how OpenOffice could go about supporting these formats. There is already an import filter which sort-of works (though I had to direct a customer to LibreOffice the other day as they were having trouble opening a perfectly-valid .docx using OpenOffice). This could be left in place, with fixes where necessary, and a new export filter written for saving. The problem
RE: OOXML
Below, Jan asks Does the standard contain some rules about keeping private information ? There are two cases for ODF 1.2. First there is the case for foreign elements/attributes/attribute values. This would be the case for some sort of extended material incorporated in the ODF document. This makes a Conforming OpenDocument Document into an Extended OpenDocument Document. A Conforming OpenDocument Consumer is permitted to ignore all of that, based on some rules about whether or not it occurs in (technically-defined) paragraph content or elsewhere in the format. There can also be foreign content in the XML package of the document, where there is no recognized relationship of that content to anything in the document as seen by an ODF Consumer. There are places where the preservation of such foreign material is recommended but not required. Most implementations lose all content that they are not implemented to interpret. Microsoft Office very definitely does that in its acceptance of OpenDocument Document files. This happens mainly because the typical internal model doesn't preserve the original XML parts and it doesn't work by manipulation of the XML parts. I suspect that Microsoft concerns about document security are also a factor, in addition to unwillingness to support features that are not part of the ODF specification. (The position, as I understand it, is that they will support the standard, not OpenOffice's particular implementation around it, and I don't know how much flexibility there is in that respect. That OpenOffice *is* the standard is a popular view that happens to be inconsistent with the principles of ISO or any standards-development organization that are committed to the ideal of independently-implemented interoperable implementations.) The second case has to do with features of ODF that a particular implementation does not support. In general, these do not survive in current implementations, since import into the internal model loses that material and there is consequently no provision for exporting it. Here, there is the fact that there is no strict minimum Conforming OpenDocument Consumer. A consumer must not object to anything in the document file that conforms to the ODF specification, but it is not required to interpret all or even any minimum set of features. There is no producer that I am aware of that produces all features provided for in the ODF specification, and most implementations only interpret those features that they are designed to produce (sometimes incorrectly) themselves. This doesn't matter too much if you use implementations with a common genealogy, but across independent implementations not having any common code base there tend to be unexpected surprises. There are also many places where a provision of ODF is not rigorously defined and implementation-dependent variation is the result, whether explicitly called out (e.g., for macros and scripts) or not (e.g., for supported image formats). -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2014 11:58 To: dev; Dennis Hamilton Subject: Re: OOXML On 2 August 2014 20:27, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: orcnotes below. -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2014 08:57 To: dev Subject: Re: OOXML On 2 August 2014 17:06, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com wrote: On 2014-08-02, at 10:24, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote: The Support that is done is to receieve OOXML not to produce them, the discussion issue would be to support legacy formats like .doc or .xls. I still dont see a point to generate OOXML and most people dont care as long as they can send in office native formats. I never heard someone saying, please send it on docx, your doc is a closed binary format. Actually, I have. But it also matters on mobile, as well as, I'd guess, for some developing processes for batch conversion of documents. Finally, it's not evident to me that refusing to develop to what is likely to become the major desktop document format globally—alas—is a good strategy that would lead to the adoption of OO. Rather, it seems it would only help those applications that do (express) both ODF *and* .docx well. Please dont forget, the computer business have always had 2 types of standard the official one and the de facto one. For those to young to remember, tcp/ip is not an official standard (OSI was) but something a number of companies decided to promote, I see docx in the same light. orcnote I think this has it backwards. For ages, .doc was the defacto standard And de jure ISO/W3C standards like SGML, ODA, and even
RE: OOXML
Below, Jan asks “Does a consumer normally have some sort of conformance sheet (like we have for communication protocols) or is it solely the user that painfully finds the lack of support ?” I think this is easy to answer. Where have you found an ODF conformance sheet for Apache OpenOffice? LibreOffice? Many choices of what to implement and also deviations of the way features are implemented are left implementation-dependent. In ODF 1.2 there are more cases where *implementation-defined* is a requirement. I am not aware how any of those have come up for AOO and LibO and how the implementation-based choices are defined, if any. Here is a serious conformance statement I have found: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff852100(v=office.14).aspx Here are some about ODF (scroll down to [MS-OODF], [MS-OODF2], and [MS-OODF3], http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg548604.aspx. Here’s the on-line version of the one for ODF 1.2 support: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh695327.aspx. It is instructive to expand the sidebar section 2 Standards Support Statements and 2.1 Normative Variations. (I never know what it means to say something is not supported. I believe it is clear that such features are not produced, but I have no idea what happens when a not-supported provision is encountered in an input document. All in all, I think this is, compared to other implementations, a “glass-half-full” condition.) In the past there was an on-line database that you could use to review compliance with ODF feature by feature, line chapter and verse. It provided for user comments and questions at that level. It was ill-maintained and I can no longer find it. It looks like the [MS-OODFn] documents have taken on that task. The statements in those documents are very much what was to be found on the database. Cynics will point out that the EUC required Microsoft to describe all deviations in its support of ODF. It is unfortunate that the EUC did not consider that such statements would be important from other sources of ODF Consumers as well. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2014 00:57 To: dev; Dennis Hamilton Subject: Re: OOXML On 2 August 2014 22:31, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: [ ... ] There is no strict minimum Conforming OpenDocument Consumer. A consumer must not object to anything in the document file that conforms to the ODF specification, but it is not required to interpret all or even any minimum set of features. There is no producer that I am aware of that produces all features provided for in the ODF specification, and most implementations only interpret those features that they are designed to produce (sometimes incorrectly) themselves. This doesn't matter too much if you use implementations with a common genealogy, but across independent implementations not having any common code base there tend to be unexpected surprises. There are also many places where a provision of ODF is not rigorously defined and implementation-dependent variation is the result, whether explicitly called out (e.g., for macros and scripts) or not (e.g., for supported image formats). Does a consumer normally have some sort of conformance sheet (like we have for communication protocols) or is it solely the user that painfully finds the lack of support ? [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: OOXML
In a later note, Jan asks about my statement concerning digital signatures, private content, and covert content: In the other mail you write a quite interesting note about digital signing of artifact the user cannot see. Do you happen to know how microsoft goes around that with the web based offerings ? Digital signatures officially entered ODF with the ODF 1.2 specification, although there was an implementation of that capability in versions of OpenOffice.org that extended their ODF 1.0/1.1 support to provide digital signatures. (The ODF 1.2 version is incompatible and that created some interesting interoperability issues until the implementations sorted it out.) With regard to Microsoft Office. Microsoft supports the ODF 1.2 digital signature in their support for ODF in Microsoft Office 2013. Since Microsoft is careful about what is signed and whether the user knows what is being signed (in terms of what is visible to users), there is no problem. On receiving digitally signed ODF 1.2 documents, Microsoft verifies those signatures as provided. Any editing will break the signature (as is true for all Consumers) and if the result is signed, there will be no unsupported features or private/covert content left, so all is well. I am not certain how this applies to the Office Web Applications. It appears that the Web Applications notice that a document is signed (whether they check it or not I have not tested) but provide no way to sign a document that is edited in one of the Web Applications. PS: Here is what I did. I downloaded an OpenOffice Calc (.ods) file that I already had in OneDrive, saved it under a new name, and signed it using LibreOffice. I put that back up on OneDrive. Now, when I open the .ods, I am warned that there may be features lost because editing is with the on-line Excel application. The Excel Online Help reports that an existing digital signature will be lost if any attempt to edit is performed. When I edited the document anyhow, there was no way to sign it on saving it back to OneDrive. It appears that I have to open it either in AOO or LibO or Excel on the desktop and sign it there. That's easy to do on Windows 8 because I have a OneDrive virtual folder on my desktop. (By the way, the making of a copy of the Calc file before editing in the Web Application is no longer automatic. I can edit the Calc document directly, but there is a warning about it. The warning links to details of what can be lost when Excel edits the Calc document. That includes loss of the digital signature.) I just uploaded a signed Microsoft Word 2013 document. When I opened it in the Web Application to edit it, I was warned that editing would invalidate the signature. After editing, I could find no way using the Web Application to sign the document. I would have to open it in the desktop application in order to do that. -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2014 13:05 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: OOXML [ ... ] There are some tricky cases, including - Changes that overlap/conflict with tracked changes but tracked changes are not updated/preserved properly - Accessibility impacts - Digital signature applying to content not observable by the signer - Covert content of various kinds - breaking of RDF/RDA connections into the document (along with failure to preserve markers correctly) The digital signature and covert-content avoidance cases work against preserving material that is not evident in a given application. In the case of ODF, the damage to tracked changes is survivable (with some loss), because the ODF approach is resilient. But not knowing about the tracked changes gets into the digital signature problem if the material is preserved while not being visible to the user. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: OOXML
It is important to understand that an XML DOM does not capture all of the constraints and referential requirements within an ODF document. In particular, content.xml does not have everything and there are references using XLink (relative hrefs) and also special identifiers (not IDREFs) to other files, whether for binary attachments or into other defined parts (styles.xml and meta.xml for two). There is also considerable internal structuring that is off-hierachy. Some of the connections are via fragment IDs (xml:id) and IDREFs, others are by identifiers (not IDs and IDREFs) that are introduced in the ODF specification but which are not modelled in the Relax NG Schema (beyond saying they have string values, for example). This sort of thing also happens rather heavily in OOXML, where communication among parts uses a unique cross-part relationship model. There are also many cross references to named components by other than XML IDs and IDREFs, whether or not the components and the references occur in the same part of the OPC package. One could continue the kind of hack that plants that information as benign markers into an internal form of the XML parts (even as a single XML document, although that is tricky when ODF documents are nested as subdocuments of another), so long as they are replaced when the XML document is committed to a saved ODF document file format. In terms of having a DOM that maps to the external file form and a different internal model, the only time that the internal model needs to update the externally-oriented DOM is as part of a Save operation. There might be more coupling, but performance and storage issues will doubtless impact the engineering outcome, especially for handling large documents with alacrity. Copy and paste and undo management will also be factors, along with maintaining pagination, word counts, and such. On the other hand, it is convenient (practically necessary) to specify the semantics of ODF, or some profile of ODF, as if operations are on the format itself, since it is only the format that is more-or-less well-specified. It would be interesting to know how much this could be taken literally in an application. I think there might be forensic tools on ODF documents that might be able to operate that way. I'm not at all certain about production WYSIWYG consumers and producers, especially ones implemented to harmonize between OOXML, ODF and other interesting formats (EPUB coming to mind). I will watch Peter Kelly's efforts with great interest to see how much the boundaries can be moved in this area. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail - Original Message --- From: Peter Kelly [mailto:kelly...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 01:27 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: OOXML On 4 Aug 2014, at 12:16 am, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: [ ... ] It's possible in theory, though I'm not familiar enough with the OO codebase to say whether it would work in practice. The key idea is to maintain two separate data structures - one which is the ODF XML trees, and another which is the internal representation. Any time a change gets made to the former, the implementation must update the latter to reflect the change. Modification operations on the latter would need to go in the other direction. [ ... ] In the case of UX Write, there's a few instances where I've used custom extensions to handle certain things. The main ones are: 1. Table of contents/list of tables/list of figures. When you insert one of these into your document, it inserts a nav element with a CSS class name of tableofcontents, listoffigures, or listoftables, which were chosen as these are the same keywords that LaTeX uses for these features. UX Write treats these as having special meaning, in the sense that when opening a document (and when the document is modified), it updates the content of these nav elements based on the set of all heading, figure, or table elements in the document (including numbering/captions). 2. OOXML-specific features. When converting from .docx to .html during the process of opening a document, it assigns certain pre-defined CSS class names to particular types of HTML elements to indicate their purpose. For example, a cross-reference whose display format is supposed to include both the label and caption of a figure will be translated as: [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Ongoing OOXML development and implementation defined items.
Jan asks good questions below. I have a comment with regard to (3) Will the OOXML implementation allow round-trip of our documents without loss of information? It strikes me that there are OOXML import and export capabilities already in Apache OpenOffice and a better question may have to do with whether those capabilities will satisfy condition (3) and how can they be improved to do so. I am assuming that Jan is considering more than AOO round-tripping with itself, although it would be strange were that not already true. The trick is round-tripping with other implementations of OOXML, perhaps, including the OOXML support of the AOO cousin, LibreOffice? I note that the current support is not being mentioned in this discussion so far. I think it may be that is related to the focus on implementations for mobile devices and other non-desktop solutions. It's not clear though. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 08:42 To: dev Subject: Ongoing OOXML development and implementation defined items. Hi. Based on the information from dennis/peter, I think it would be highly interesting to know: 1) How are the implementation defined items implemented, is the intention to forward a list to dev@ and ask for opinions (of course in a style so an opinion is possible to give) ? 2) How will the implementation defined items, be documented, they are likely to change over time, to its problaly a poing where maintenance is needed, and thus a higher demand on documentation ? 3) Will the OOXML implementation allow round-trip of our documents without loss of information ? unlike the sidebar development, this develoment seems closed, I expect there are good reasons for it, but items where many can have an opinion (format conversion being a typical example) would be nice to discuss. thanks in advance. rgds jan I - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Query
Yes, they can run side by side. Are you using Microsoft Office Home and Business 2014 on the Mac? Are you expecting OpenOffice to provide a counterpart of Microsoft Access? That may be tricky. The database feature of OpenOffice is not a Microsoft Access work-alike. Please clarify your question. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail -Original Message- From: Silas Campbell [mailto:silascampbell1...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 4, 2014 08:20 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Query Can OpenOffice be used alongside Microsoft Office??? We have the Home and Business 2014 package, however it doesn't include Access..which recently I have become in need ofcan you help??? Silas - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: DocFormats - Open source OOXML implementation
I don't have any skin in this game. Yet I am baffled about where this work is going on and what Apache Project it relates to. Is there an incubator proposal for Apache DocFormats on its way? In particular, I would expect that some thought would be given to the ODF Toolkit and that incubator project, http://incubator.apache.org/odftoolkit/. Also, Apache POI would seem to have some relevance, especially the OpenXML4J component, http://poi.apache.org/. These are all Java based, as is Armin's current project in the AOO repository. I haven't listed open-source projects outside the embrace of ASF. A single orcnote remark is in-line below (although this notation may derail defective HTML presentation of plaintext containing angle brackets). Re-subscribing to general-incubator now ... Oh, and congratulations on joining the IPMC, Jan. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 01:10 To: dev Subject: Re: DocFormats - Open source OOXML implementation On 16 August 2014 03:50, Peter Kelly kelly...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] Now, onto the fix: The library needs to have some way of checking that the HTML file being used as part of an update operation has a mapping (id attributes) that match the docx file being updated (in the case of creating a new file, this is just an empty docx file). In the even that this is not the case, it could still do the update, but would act as if the entire document had been replaced with a completely new one. The solution I'll likely implement (and this should really be my first task, given the potential for problems like the above is this): In my humble opinion you should not use time on this right now. If you fix a bug we have a 1-1 relation (1 man used, 1 bug fixed) If you start getting the documentation right we have a 1-n relations (1 man used, n men help fix bugs). Please have in mind, we build a community in order to move away from I have to do it, because I am the only one who know how and you are the most important enabler of that..we need your knowledge in a file, so that others can work. [ ... ] When the project (hopefully) enters incubator, we will automatically have access to a bug tracking system (jira), and with that hopefully only being some month away I would not recommend setting up one now. orcnote On Github, there is already an issues structure, https://github.com/uxproductivity/DocFormats/issues. I think this should be continued in use until a different setup arrives any day soon. Note that some Github projects create a single subrepository that is just for its issues function. E.g., https://github.com/keybase/keybase-issues /orcnote [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: DocFormats - Open source OOXML implementation
OK, I get it. There is cross-talk between this dev-openoffice list and general-incubator involving two messages there, 1. A general-incubator post from you, replying to a message from Peter Kelley about his DocFormats document-conversion project and bringing Peter's request to the attention of general-incubator, at http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201408.mbox/%3CCAK2iWdTS%2BKUWWZ%2BBOAnsNW4PiE37OLJA%3Dx%2B5az%3DAdAviiS_47A%40mail.gmail.com%3E. 2. An observation from Andrea that is essentially good wishes. I find it an interesting leap from DocFormats to OpenOffice for tablets and look forward to seeing the incubator proposal. I am definitely interested in the student proposal, to get a compliance sheet made for products that offer OXML and/or odf that you mention. Interoperability in interchange among document formats is a driving issue for me. I look forward to more about that. There has been significant effort in this area, although it does not seem to have made much impact and is generally little-known. The OASIS effort on ODF Interoperability and Conformance (OIC TC) folded its tent in November 2013. (On that one, I am an unindicted co-conspirator.) I will see what references I can dig up after I submit updated pre-conference versions of some papers due this weekend, https://sites.google.com/site/dchanges14/program. Information about those interop/conversion efforts would also be good backup information for the DChanges 2014 workshop next month. - Dennis PS: Roundtripping between OOXML and HTML is something that Microsoft put considerable effort into. Some found the resulting HTML (pre-HTML5) rather nauseous, but it is remarkably presentation-preserving as far as it goes. It might be informative to look into how well AOO does the same between ODF and [X]HTML as a calibration. One could also look at the Office Web Apps, that manifest OOXML documents via editable web-page interfaces as a descendant. These seem to be tied to the way that some Phone and Tablet Microsoft Office applications are tied to cloud-stored documents. -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 09:45 To: Dennis Hamilton Cc: dev; jan iversen Subject: Re: DocFormats - Open source OOXML implementation On 16 August 2014 18:38, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: I don't have any skin in this game. Yet I am baffled about where this work is going on and what Apache Project it relates to. Is there an incubator proposal for Apache DocFormats on its way? Yes there is a proposal on its way, look at general-incubator approx. the last 3 days. Right now it is not decided who should sponsor this project. [ ... ] The intention is clearly to at least have a close cooperation with these projects. But docFormats aims at a bit more (like e.g. being openoffice on tablets). I am right now working on student proposal, to get a compliance sheet made for products that offer OXML and/or odf. MAybe that would be something you would want to help out with. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
OpenFormula Alignment (was RE: Forward planning for OO 5.0)
A good source for volunteer effort is exploration of the alignment between Calc, ODF 1.2 OpenFormula, and other ODF Spreadsheet supporting implementations such as Excel 2013 and Gnumeric. This would isolate and identify provisions of ODF 1.2 OpenFormula, such as IFERROR http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part2.html#__RefHeading__1018448_715980110, that may not yet be supported. There may be others that variances and boundaries that need to be dealt with or at least specified as implementation-dependent/defined for Apache OpenOffice. This is a rich avenue for documentation, testing, and interoperability verification as well as learning how to integrate/maintain formula processing in Apache OpenOffice Calc. Regina Henschel is a valuable resource in this area. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, September 6, 2014 02:55 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Forward planning for OO 5.0 On 05/09/2014 Vladislav Stevanovic wrote: [ ... ] - Calc has not support Iferror function. Maybe also another function is there out what Calc do not support. If we want to offer alternative for Office, well we must have all function This is one of the features that are realistically suitable for new volunteers (even though this one would need mentoring too). Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Problems seeing ApacheCon EU banner in home page bottom left corner.
On Internet Explorer 11 and Windows 8.1, I see it just fine. With all manner of window resizing, I could not make any of the footer images disappear. The source of the page is fun to read. I didn't dig out the CSS sheet, but I wonder if there needs to be more explicit positioning information among the three divs within the footer div. You might try making your Firefox window larger and see if the Apachecon link has slid off the page somewhere. I also went to http://openoffice.org and it served up from http://www.openoffice.org/ just fine. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, September 7, 2014 20:33 To: OOo Apache Subject: Problems seeing ApacheCon EU banner in home page bottom left corner. Is anyone else NOT able to see the ApacheConEU graphic with accompanying link to the conference on the home page or is just me? :( FF 31.0 - openSUSE 12.3 Looking at source all looks fine and yet -- - MzK Nothing will work unless you do. -- Maya Angelou - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: working on one of simple coding tasks
Uh, no, you generally can't use a patch from LibreOffice for Apache OpenOffice unless the author of that patch agrees to it. If Zolnai Tamás were to contribute it to i59059, that would be best. Don't do that yourself. Others will have to decide what the policy is in this case and how the patch can be handled. I'm not a regular here and don't know what specific policy will apply. Andreas will know, of course. It is good that you asked. PS: I can confirm the bug. The ODF in the test documents is correct. AOO 4.1.1 loses that information on loading the document (as did older versions of LibreOffice). LibreOffice 4.3.1.2 loads the document correctly. I also replicated the bug by making a similar document of my own in AOO 4.1.1 and confirming that the drop cap style when set is not reloaded correctly even though it is set properly (and opens correctly in LibreOffice 4.3.1.2). -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail -Original Message- From: Amali Praveena Soban Kumar [mailto:samaliprave...@yahoo.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, September 9, 2014 16:29 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: working on one of simple coding tasks [ ... ] The issue 59059, as Bugzilla says, is fixed in LO. I went into the BZ link for LO and found out there is a patch for it. Can I take and use the patch directly in AOO code? I checked it and AOO code is exactly the same, but still have to run it to see if the code works. [ ... ] On 09/09/2014 Amali Praveena Soban Kumar wrote: Hi Andrea, I've completed the changes for issue 125581 Committed shortly ago, thanks! Now, I'm planning to take this first task from the simple tasks list and work on it - issue 59059. Shall I do it? Looks good. You'll need someone with better knowledge of the ODF internals than me if you have questions, but this is what this list is meant for, so don't hesitate and ask! Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: The City of Udine is moving from Windows for OpenOffice
I share the concern expressed by Roberto and Andreas. Starting with the effort to establish ODF for use in civil administration in Massachusetts, it was clear that no US civil authority, at any level up the governmental hierarchy, was prepared to invest what was necessary to achieve *actual* substitutability among standards-compliant implementations and to identify and have addressed (via procurement policies and technical means) their requirements for genuine cross-product/-platform interoperability. This does not seem to be something that governments can take on as a public good in the present reality. It is perhaps also no surprise that interoperability assessment among ODF implementations appears to be more of the works for me! variety. I could make a living if there were a bounty for every bug I find practically anywhere I attempt to interchange documents cross-product. The fact that there are now deviations between Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice is particularly discouraging as is the fact that the pair-wise deviations are even greater with respect to interoperability with the Microsoft Office counterparts, whether via ODF or via OOXML. Hmm ... I was just presenting at an international workshop on technical aspects of this problem, centered around tracked changes. Just in developing my papers and the slides, I am going to need to spend considerable time reporting the bugs I encountered, along with a possible defect in ODF itself that I had not appreciated before. And I am ignoring, here, the problems of training and staffing that goes with making product substitutions in what we term office-productivity activities. There seems to be a lack of will and means for the adopters, and a lack of commitment among producers to cooperate enough to provide some reliable assurance of interoperability. Writing this has me be dispirited. I will recover. I have hope. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Roberto Resoli [mailto:robe...@resolutions.it] Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 08:52 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: The City of Udine is moving from Windows for OpenOffice Il 18/09/2014 09:19, Andrea Pescetti ha scritto: On 17/09/2014 Marcus wrote: Am 09/17/2014 09:36 PM, schrieb Vladislav Stevanovic: Another goog news: http://www.zdnet.com/another-italian-city-announces-its-ditching-microsoft-windows-for-open-source-733682/ sometimes it's going fast. It's already on our homepage in the Recent News section. :-) It's also on Softpedia: http://news.softpedia.com/news/City-of-Udine-Planning-to-Replace-Windows-with-Linux-458963.shtml It's another nice surprise from Italy! I know nothing about the Udine migration (I've simply read the this article), but I hope that cutting spending is just one of the reasons. I hope that too; we have seen too many failed migrations to FLOSS sw because the only expectation was cutting spending. I would like that institutions do not behave as ordinary end-users, but try to be more actively involved with the community (directly or through consultants). Yes, I think this is also a key factor for a sustainable FLOSS adoption. bye, rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Concerns about the AOO community
A side comment. It seems that it has escaped everyone's attention that the latest release(s) of LibreOffice are not under [L]GPL. The releases are under MPL 2.0 (the Mozilla license). The LibreOffice codebase itself is now a combination of Apache licensed code (from guess where?) and MPL 2.0 modifications. It appears to me that the source code is now multi-licensed (not dual-licensed) under both Apache License 2.0 (for the base code) and MPL (for the changes made by the TDF to make their core source code). I agree that the osmosis between the projects is still one-way and it is not easy to change because the contributors to LibO have only granted a dual MPL and LGPL license to their contributions. TDF has taken the MPL option. That is still toxic for incorporation as source code in any Apache Software Foundation Project code base. With regard to potential remedies, I am in complete accord with Ian's appraisal. Especially for matters applicable to the interoperable usage of ODF, the lack of cooperation is very troublesome and may, if not addressed, be fatal to both projects. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Ian Lynch [mailto:ianrly...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 2, 2014 05:47 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Concerns about the AOO community It would be better for the projects to merge, but the details (license, community) clearly matter a lot to some people. If there was a better spirit of cooperation most of the effort could go into AOO with just some minor things for the GPL version derived from it in an agreed way so that that could satisfy the needs of that particular market. But to do that we would have to get a lot more trust and friendliness between the two projects. It doesn't seem too likely at present. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Concerns about the AOO community
What gets me about development is that the most contorted possible ever development process is builds for Windows, yet a lot of interest is from people who want that case to work. And, of course, we know that the sweet spot for Apache OpenOffice adoption is on the Windows platform. It is clear why that disparity exists, but the result is an awkward situation, especially for attracting developers and testers. I have no idea how to streamline the build and also get to where there is an x64 release also. My brain melts when I even consider it and I have avoided going through the developer training materials. My bad. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Roman Sausarnes [mailto:romansausar...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, October 2, 2014 10:26 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Concerns about the AOO community Hello, As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved in one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions. The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for how to get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the first time on my machine. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Concerns about the AOO community
orcnotes below. -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, October 4, 2014 07:58 To: dev Subject: Re: Concerns about the AOO community [ ... ] In my opinion BOTH projects have made a lot of progress on their own (NOT by using code from the other), and that should be acknowledged. [ ... ] In my humble opinion we could easily have a shared codebase of minimun 80% of the code. Put it in a common git repository and allow LO as well as AOO committers to write code. The 2 projects would then have the last 20% in their own respective repositories. Doing that would require only 3 changes: a) all common code must be multi licensed, which is the case for most of code already. b) AOO should grant LO committers committer status and visa versa. c) The people in charge should be told that this is what the communities want, and make it happen. [ ... ] rgds jan I. orcnote I think there are grounds for collaboration. However, adding committers requires that the Apache Software Foundation requirements for committers must be honored. At least one TDF Member has done so. That participation is to be cherished. There is already a common codebase but not via shared repository. To create a shared repository of common components that are collaboratively maintained probably requires different modularization of the code base. Having it be outside of the ASF infrastructure and also multi-licensed raises all kinds of issues that appear to be far above the pay grade of the AOO Project. The AOO SVN trunk is already mirrored on GitHub. Is there any process for accepting pull requests to it? There is no problem with AOO code being relied upon by LibreOffice. At the ASF, forking is a feature. I think we need to take that to heart. That LibreOffice has relied on that is, after all, that argument that was made in the podling days of AOO on why having OpenOffice.org granted to the ASF was no problem, since everything AOO might do was readily available to LibreOffice the same as to anyone. There is no problem with LibO partaking of the Symphony-originated contributions that have been merged into AOO. It hurts that there is no acknowledgment of that mutual benefit, especially for accessibility improvements. The problem is the barrier presented by what could be common fixes not being able to travel from LibO to AOO because of licensing conflicts (absent those developers becoming ASF committers). This is not so important for feature differences unrelated to interoperability via ODF as it is for fixes and improvements to the common 80%. Interoperability improvements that are not sharable are an user-community issue though and I fear the consequences of the resulting incompatibilities will be felt far beyond the preferences of the individual projects and their developers. Also, there would have to be some common refactoring in order for the different personalities of releases to be separated and a common core being mutually maintained. Better modularization would be great anyhow, since it could radically improve build and testing time. Yet that is a big distraction from the main work of either project. An approach involving smaller steps is better. I think these are simple matters of fact. And licensing issues will still impact what AOO can and cannot rely on and how dependencies are managed accordingly. I suppose the best that can be done on the AOO side of this is to persist in being good neighbors and being a good example of cooperative development wherever opportunities arise. /orcnote - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Complex content inside shapes
Hi Regina, orcnote below, -Original Message- From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.hensc...@t-online.de] Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 08:34 To: AOO dev Subject: Complex content inside shapes Hi all, LibreOffice has implemented the ability for complex content in shapes. I would not bother you with this, but it will result in requests for ODF1.3. Therefore I ask you to have a look and help me to form an opinion. [1] http://vmiklos.hu/blog/textbox.html [2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.4#Shapes_can_have_a_TextBox [3] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70942 [4] http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice/2014-October/063831.html orcnote Can you say more on how you think this is already possible in ODF 1.2 without any required change? Or are you saying there is an implementation-defined case already available under ODF 1.2? In the second case, it would seem simpler to agree on a shared implementation-defined (and public) definition than to expect incorporation in a new ODF specification. For one thing, that doesn't do anything for ODF 1.2-conforming documents. Did the LibreOffice extension presume to reuse an OASIS namespace or was it done properly with a well-defined foreign extension? - Dennis /orcnote Kind regards Regina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Complex content inside shapes
Regina, Here is my question: What about the draw:text-box shape, which can contain any sequence of text-content elements, including table:table in ODF 1.2 already? It seems to me that a custom shape is not required at all. Since draw:text-box can appear anywhere any shape element can appear, is there not enough flexibility there? I see it in draw:g and draw:frame, for example, and in other places where draw:text-box is allowed as a specific case. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.hensc...@t-online.de] Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 14:53 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Complex content inside shapes [ ... ] Is the idea to allow table:table as child of draw:custom-shape and other shapes worth supporting? Kind regards Regina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Build System Improvements
orcnote inline below. -Original Message- From: Andre Fischer [mailto:awf@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 04:39 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Build System Improvements On 17.10.2014 13:21, Regina Henschel wrote: Hi Andre, will these in the long term lead to a system, where AOO can be build directly in MS Visual Studio without need of cygwin? Hi Regina, this is not a direct goal but could become possible as a side effect. One of the key ideas of the proposed approach is to further separate between dependencies and build logic and have scripts/programs transform the dependencies into actual make files. Once the dependencies are present as uniform XML files we can more easily write a transformation into Visual Studio solution files. But this will still not be a trivial task. It would help me if you or somebody else could provide a description or even a specification of Visual Studio solution/project files. orcnote I don't think you need to go all the way to solution files in order To compile native (win32 and x64) for Windows using Visual Studio, even Visual Studio 2013 Express for the Desktop. One can have makefile- controlled builds and command-line compiles just fine. Developers might want to create makefile solution files, but they should not be needed in the source tree. (It might also be valuable to understand MSBuild, which is XML-based already, and that might be a better alternative to constructing solution files. Finally, one reason to make a solution file is to use VS 2013 GIT repository integration, but that only works if pull requests become supported and cloning is to places where pulls can reach.) I think an interesting aspect of Andre's proposal is that one could Take advantage of linking and DLL creation more, not requiring full builds so much so long as there are unchanged static libraries and DLLs. This kind of refactoring might also be important for configurations on limited platforms. The idea is to build and test AOO by component layers. That might make working with GIT more practical as well. (I don't mean releasing separate components, but being able to build up dependencies in stages, even the first time as a way to start working with a fresh clone/checkout of the source tree. Of course, building smaller, specialized distros might be more-easily come by.) /orcnote -Andre Kind regards Regina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Build System Improvements
Concerning refactoring the build of AOO, I wonder about Cygwin alternatives. Msys2 may be superior with regard to being friendly to the Windows environment: http://sourceforge.net/p/msys2/wiki/Contributing%20to%20MSYS2/. I was led to this today when looking into this project: https://github.com/leanprover/lean. That's much simpler than building AOO. The clean instructions and the easy handling of multiple platforms (and being good for x64 Windows) strikes me as an excellent example. Having so little friction in beginner AOO builds seems very desirable. I'd wager that the VC++ 2013 compiler could be used more easily There also. - Dennis Speaking of refactoring, there may be some inspiration in this report on a benchmark Windows product being taken multi-platform, multi-device: http://winsupersite.com/office/how-microsoft-taking-office-cross-platform. -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 08:22 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: Build System Improvements orcnote inline below. -Original Message- From: Andre Fischer [mailto:awf@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 04:39 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Build System Improvements On 17.10.2014 13:21, Regina Henschel wrote: Hi Andre, will these in the long term lead to a system, where AOO can be build directly in MS Visual Studio without need of cygwin? Hi Regina, this is not a direct goal but could become possible as a side effect. One of the key ideas of the proposed approach is to further separate between dependencies and build logic and have scripts/programs transform the dependencies into actual make files. Once the dependencies are present as uniform XML files we can more easily write a transformation into Visual Studio solution files. But this will still not be a trivial task. It would help me if you or somebody else could provide a description or even a specification of Visual Studio solution/project files. orcnote I don't think you need to go all the way to solution files in order To compile native (win32 and x64) for Windows using Visual Studio, even Visual Studio 2013 Express for the Desktop. One can have makefile- controlled builds and command-line compiles just fine. Developers might want to create makefile solution files, but they should not be needed in the source tree. (It might also be valuable to understand MSBuild, which is XML-based already, and that might be a better alternative to constructing solution files. Finally, one reason to make a solution file is to use VS 2013 GIT repository integration, but that only works if pull requests become supported and cloning is to places where pulls can reach.) I think an interesting aspect of Andre's proposal is that one could Take advantage of linking and DLL creation more, not requiring full builds so much so long as there are unchanged static libraries and DLLs. This kind of refactoring might also be important for configurations on limited platforms. The idea is to build and test AOO by component layers. That might make working with GIT more practical as well. (I don't mean releasing separate components, but being able to build up dependencies in stages, even the first time as a way to start working with a fresh clone/checkout of the source tree. Of course, building smaller, specialized distros might be more-easily come by.) /orcnote -Andre Kind regards Regina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Build System Improvements
orcnote inline -Original Message- From: Andre Fischer [mailto:awf@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 00:38 To: dennis.hamil...@acm.org; dev@openoffice.apache.org Cc: awf@gmail.com Subject: Re: Build System Improvements Hi Dennis, please see my comments to your two mails inline. On 20.10.2014 19:23, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: Concerning refactoring the build of AOO, I wonder about Cygwin alternatives. Msys2 may be superior with regard to being friendly to the Windows environment: http://sourceforge.net/p/msys2/wiki/Contributing%20to%20MSYS2/. As far as I know cygwin is primarily used to provide a Unix like shell environment with commands like ls, cp, sed, awk, etc. We are not using to compiling source code. So, in a sense, being Windows friendly is not the primary goal :-) But you are still making a valid point. At the moment we are forcing all platforms to use e.g. the cp command for copying files to reduce the complexity of the build scripts (and possibly because the authors could not be bothered to use the Windows platform). Using native commands might lead to shorter build times. orcnote Apart from the question of performance, I think the greater issue is the fact that Cygwin creates a different mapping of the host file system, making coordinated use of the VC++ compiler very difficult to get right. I am going to look into MSYS2 and the Lean Prover build as an easy way to do a proof of concept. I expect that I can't use the VC++ compiler in a build of the Lean Prover because of the dependencies on GMP, MPFR and Lua. I do want to know if MSYS2 provides a better approach in terms of being able to use and build native Windows programs and allow the Windows file system to correspond to POSIX file names in a more direct way. We'll see. /orcnote I was led to this today when looking into this project: https://github.com/leanprover/lean. That's much simpler than building AOO. The clean instructions and the easy handling of multiple platforms (and being good for x64 Windows) strikes me as an excellent example. Having so little friction in beginner AOO builds seems very desirable. Making the build easier is one of my goals but I am afraid that at the moment the initial configuration is the most complicated step. And I don't want to touch that right now. I'd wager that the VC++ 2013 compiler could be used more easily There also. - Dennis Speaking of refactoring, there may be some inspiration in this report on a benchmark Windows product being taken multi-platform, multi-device: http://winsupersite.com/office/how-microsoft-taking-office-cross-platform. -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 08:22 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: Build System Improvements orcnote inline below. -Original Message- From: Andre Fischer [mailto:awf@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 04:39 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Build System Improvements On 17.10.2014 13:21, Regina Henschel wrote: Hi Andre, will these in the long term lead to a system, where AOO can be build directly in MS Visual Studio without need of cygwin? Hi Regina, this is not a direct goal but could become possible as a side effect. One of the key ideas of the proposed approach is to further separate between dependencies and build logic and have scripts/programs transform the dependencies into actual make files. Once the dependencies are present as uniform XML files we can more easily write a transformation into Visual Studio solution files. But this will still not be a trivial task. It would help me if you or somebody else could provide a description or even a specification of Visual Studio solution/project files. orcnote I don't think you need to go all the way to solution files in order To compile native (win32 and x64) for Windows using Visual Studio, even Visual Studio 2013 Express for the Desktop. One can have makefile- controlled builds and command-line compiles just fine. Well, yes. But we already have command line based builds which work quite well. The big advantage of using of environments like Visual Studio or Eclipse is that writing/editing code becomes easier. I guess that for that we need the solution files. Developers might want to create makefile solution files, but they should not be needed in the source tree. (It might also be valuable to understand MSBuild, which is XML-based already, and that might be a That is interesting. I was not aware of MSBuild before. I will look into it. -Andre better alternative to constructing solution files. Finally, one reason to make a solution file is to use VS 2013 GIT repository integration, but that only works if pull requests become supported and cloning is to places where pulls can reach.) I think an interesting aspect
RE: Improved OOXML support?
orcnotes inline -Original Message- From: BRM [mailto:bm_witn...@yahoo.com.INVALID] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 08:12 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Improved OOXML support? On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 1:03 AM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote: From: BRM [mailto:bm_witn...@yahoo.com.INVALID] Unfortunately that will always be the state of OOXML integration for anyone other than Microsoft since OOXML is a poorly defined standard that relies on many binary extensions that are not published. Kind of like the old DOC/XLS/PPT/MDB formats that were (in many ways) memory dumps of their respective applications - only for OOXML they're wrapped by XML. Until Microsoft publishes a real standard no one will ever be able to have true inter-operability. Of course, this kind of hurts Microsoft too since they basically have the same problems with OOXML that they had with the old formats between versions of their own Office products; a good standard would make that a non-issue. Sorry, but in this case MS is not to blame. The OOXML format is published as ISO standard. Yes it is a published ISO standard, but one that relies on many unpublished extensions.Yes, AOO can implement something that implements the one-off ISO standard (there have been no updates AFAIK);however, it will always be a chasing a moving, undocumented target for all those extensions which MS Office uses extensively. orcnote OOXML is in its 4th edition (December 2012) and I believe another is on its way. It is under active maintenance at the ISO level, and you can always get the specs most easily from ECMA. See http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-376.htm. I'm not so sure about unpublished extensions. There is a mechanism provided in the OOXML Standard for introducing extensions and my impression is that Microsoft is careful to use the mechanism and specify what theirs are, just as they also publish their profile for what they support in ODF. /orcnote We could discuss problems of this ISO standard in detail, but this is not necessary because the fact that LibreOffice has implemented appropriate filters, proves that it is not a problem of the OOXML standard. No, just that someone has kept it up to some degree and spent time figuring out a set of those extensions that seems common enough.LO doesn't have perfect OOXML compatibility with MS Office either; just better than AOO right now. And, as I noted, even MS Office has problems with OOXML compatibility between versions of itself.Not because of the standard but because of all the unpublished extensions to the standard; extensions which are likely just binary dumps of memory again. I find it really strange that it seems impossible to find companies that are willing to integrate corresponding filter in AOO, as a normal commercial support. Probably because it is not an easy task, too much of a moving target, and more.Yes, you can figure out a series of files, but there will always be something that is not completely compatible.While there may be a published XML-based Base for the OOXML file formats, there are still many parts that are not. And yes, I'll applaud anyone that takes it on. Just saying, don't expect perfection, and don't expect to not to have to continuously be working on it because it is a continously moving target. And that is the juxt of my point in this whole thread. orcnote I suspect that a bigger detriment to someone building commercial filters for AOO OOXML support is finding a meaningful business model, since these presumably have to be made freely available and even open-source. It might be easier for developers who are immersed in the Microsoft (Office) technology to build better ODF conversions for Microsoft Office than start on the AOO side. That might be a superior point of leverage. I suspect there is still a business model problem since any enterprise or institution that finds this very important could presumably use their leverage with Microsoft directly to have better ODF support. /orcnote $0.02 Ben - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Improved OOXML support?
With regard to the quotation from me, yes, it is possible to find funding for improvements. There have been requests for bids from organization such as the OSB Alliance. It is difficult to know whether they have found someone to bid on the work they want though, at an affordable price. The improved OOXML support was funded by an organization. You've seen Jürgen Schmidt's response on the difficulty there has been integrating that code into Apache OpenOffice. I don't doubt his appraisal. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Jörg Schmidt [mailto:joe...@j-m-schmidt.de] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 12:54 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; dennis.hamil...@acm.org Subject: Re: Improved OOXML support? I find it really strange that it seems impossible to find companies that are willing to integrate corresponding filter in AOO, as a normal commercial support. Probably because it is not an easy task, too much of a moving target, and more.Yes, you can figure out a series of files, but there will always be something that is not completely compatible. This is absolutely not a problem, the compatibility already provides the LibreOffice would be enough (for now). I suspect that a bigger detriment to someone building commercial filters for AOO OOXML support is finding a meaningful business model, Commercial filters are not the issue, but that someone would pay the filter development ready, but no company finds that implements this, at least by the companies that are listed here: http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html Greetings, Jörg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Proposal: AOO 4.1.2
+1 I think a 4.1.2 would also be a good mentoring/training process for an additional Release Manager or two. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:r...@robweir.com] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 09:16 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Proposal: AOO 4.1.2 A short term goal, in addition to whatever 5.0 discussions we want to have. Let's try for a 4.1.2 release containing: 1) Whatever new languages/language updates we have, including of course dictionary updates. 2) Fixes for any critical bugs, especially any introduced in AOO 4.1.1. Do we know yet which bugs these are? Do we have a short list of the most critical ones? 3) Patches merged in from new dev volunteers. I think #3 is extremely important here. Although not as evident to users, these small fixes and small enhancements reflect wins in the community. We've had many new dev volunteers in the past few months working on easy fixes. Let's try to help them get their good work into the hands of users via a release, and give us all the good feeling that comes from shipping code. So this might be a slower release, since we're focused on new volunteers and mentoring them takes time. But I think this is a worthwhile investment in the community. What do you think? -Rob - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: the question about installing OO‘ sdk
orcnote inline -Original Message- From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 01:03 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: the question about installing OO‘ sdk On 24/10/14 07:22, soyol aron wrote: Hi all, I have some question about installing OO‘ sdk. I know that this topic is might not be appropriate for discussing at here. But I can't subscribe to the a...@openoffice.apache.org, It always return me the message like below at the step I confirm my mail address. Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: gmail@openoffice.apache.org Technical details of permanent failure: Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for the recipient domain openoffice.apache.org by mx1.eu.apache.org. [192.87.106.230]. The error that the other server returned was: 550 mail to gmail@openoffice.apache.org not accepted here So my question is that after I installed OO'sdk, I followed the Install Guid(C:\Program Files (x86)\OpenOffice 4\sdk\docs\install.html) to get additional tools , But *Question 1*: zip tool can not be downloaded. Is there any alternative tools? this is the URL I referred, both download link is not accessible. http://www.info-zip.org/Zip.html#Downloads orcnote It would seem that 7-zip would be a better Windows choice, unless there are command-line differences that make use in existing scripts more work. 7-zip has the advantage of being relatively well-maintained and apparently stable. http://www.7-zip.org/. I have not had difficulty accessing the info-zip links. I did not attempt any downloads though. Windows also has Zip installed automatically, but not as a command- line tool. It is a form of folder on Windows, although you can use Available tools also (WinZip, 7zip, etc.). /orcnote *Question 2*: If that additional tools is open source why don't put(e.g.GNU make, zip tools) them into SDK's Installation package? Is there any license problem? yes I think it is mainly a license issue. And on most systems the tools are available anyway apart from Windows. I will try to find some working links, I haven't checked the referenced ones for some time. Juergen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
orcnote below. -Original Message- From: Andrew Douglas Pitonyak [mailto:and...@pitonyak.org] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 06:18 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?) On 10/24/2014 01:54 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote: But where is the problem? Either OOXML *is* ISO standard or is not ISO-standard. If the problem is however that MS is 'meddling' in the standard, then it is a political issue that requires policy responses - not a question of software development. I am not overly informed on this, but, I think that the primary complaint was that the OOXML ISO standard supports storing proprietary binary blobs that are not part of the standard as aprt of the document. orcnote This was and is a red herring. The ODF specification is just as permissive in this regard. For example, there is no specification on the binary formats of images that are incorporated in ODF packages by our favorite ODF-supporting software. Also, the allowance of OLE objects opens a very wide door in ODF that is exploited by the prominent implementations. What would be more interesting is to see what either specification says about how such material is identified so implementations can determine what is present. It would also be interesting to know how well implementations identify what cases of this that are supported, somewhere that the information is readily available for the information of non-implementers. /orcnote -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
orcnote below. -Original Message- From: Andrew Douglas Pitonyak [mailto:and...@pitonyak.org] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 17:27 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Spam (9.566):Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?) On 10/24/2014 11:42 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: orcnote below. -Original Message- From: Andrew Douglas Pitonyak [mailto:and...@pitonyak.org] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 06:18 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?) [ ... ] I am not overly informed on this, but, I think that the primary complaint was that the OOXML ISO standard supports storing proprietary binary blobs that are not part of the standard as aprt of the document. [ ... ] More specifically, I was under the impression that you could include a binary blob of say a doc file. orcnote More specifically, can you point me to an authoritative source For this claim? I don't want to take a search of the OOXML specification without some specific details. /orcnote -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
ODF Plugfest #10, London, 2014-12-08/09
http://plugfest.opendocumentformat.org/. An opportunity for the primary implementers of ODF to get together, explore some test cases, and provide a little advocacy for what the local civil administration authorities can count on. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Apache Extras PoC
orcnote below -Original Message- From: Roberto Galoppini [mailto:roberto.galopp...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 05:57 To: dev Cc: d...@community.apache.org Subject: Re: Apache Extras PoC 2014-10-23 8:20 GMT+02:00 Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org: [ ... ] Honestly, with the very long filenames we use, http://sourceforge.net/projects/oooextras.mirror/files/?source=directory is hardly readable, and this should definitely be improved is possible. When we mirrored that apparently someone was using oooextras. Now it's free to use, so we can easily replace http://sourceforge.net/projects/oooextras.mirror/files/?source=directory with http://sourceforge.net/projects/oooextras orcnote I think the observation about long file names has to do with these, e.g., d6eef4b4cacb2183f2bf265a5a03a354-boost_1_55_0.tar.bz2 which make the page unreadable because the CSS forces the Name column to be too narrow to see the full names. (The mouse-over provides them, and so does the information pop-down, but that is no help in scanning the list.) Also, the Looking for the latest version? message makes no Sense on the OOO Extras page. The names are not something SourceForge can do anything about. So long as these are meant to be fetched by scripts running in builds, this is the way it is going to be. Those are the names used in the matching and fetching of ex. [I can appreciate why these are unacceptable usage of the Google Code and GitHub project services. These are not development projects, just storage for build-used bundles for external dependencies. It also means serving ads is not accomplishing much here. Removing the sidebar for ads would also allow the name column to be wider. These don't seem to be Extras the way that was originally conceived, but the name is probably unimportant here.] /orcnote [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: English dictionary (Re: 2015 -- Our 30th Anniversary)
There is no wrong answer here. The question is, do you want to fix your immediate problem, or are you willing to wait until there is something in the installer to destroy your profile every time you install an update, or something else? Andrea described the state of affairs and the options for working around it that are available now. Let's look a little deeper. There are occasions where the user profile carries information that causes opening of an application to fail because of a document-recovery failure or other corruption of previous work. There may also be problems because an user profile is corrupted in some manner, all by itself. This is because some sort of corruption happened already, and restarting doesn't improve matters. If we could tell that this was the case in the software, OpenOffice could request permission to fix it immediately on it being detected. It would not have anything to do with installing updates. (The reason for engaging users is that there may be other consequences if the fix involves deleting the user profile or destruction of autosave material.) Alternatively, there could be some sort of option in the current document-recovery-failure message to ask if the user profile should be reset. I.e., give the user a way to break out of the problem by selecting a don't recover option on the dialog, or something. Again, this has nothing to do with giving magical powers to the installer. This is easy to say. It may be hard to implement. And it requires some volunteers (not just one) to tease it out, come up with fixes, verify the situation by intentionally creating document-recovery problems, and also ensure that the remedy is otherwise benign. That will take volunteers who are equipped to deal with the problem and have both the desire and the opportunity to work on it. I agree that it would be valuable to have such a remedy, and anything that inspires user confidence is important. You might want to find a bug to vote for, such as https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=71681. Or https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=61610. There are others (I found over 100 bugzilla entries using search on document recovery. There are many ways for there to be corruption of one kind or another. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Alphonso Whitfield III [mailto:awhitfi...@vital-inet.com] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 20:07 To: market...@openoffice.apache.org Cc: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: English dictionary (Re: 2015 -- Our 30th Anniversary) Wrong answer.The end user should not have to fix anything it should work when the product is downloaded or the application should not be included in the download. It worked without difficulty prior to the latest version being released. I sent true end users to download the software , they downloaded the software and the spell check dictionary did not work. This damages our credibility as an alternative solution to pay for products that are available. What is the timeline for the download to be corrected? Alphonso Whitfield III 912-590-6266 Sales Office 912-590-6139 Ops Center i...@thevitalportal.com Vital Inc. 315 Plant Ave Suite E Waycross, Georgia 31501 - Original Message - From: Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org To: dev@openoffice.apache.org, market...@openoffice.apache.org Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 4:44:54 PM Subject: English dictionary (Re: 2015 -- Our 30th Anniversary) On 27/10/2014 Alphonso Whitfield III wrote: When is the English language dictionary going to be fixed in the spell checker application? The English dictionary is not supposed to be fixed since it already works. If it doesn't work for you, try resettin your user profile. There are plenty of explanations around, see for example https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12426 Note that your comment has nothing to do with the original topic of this discussion. Please do change at least the subject (and possibly start a new discussion instead of replying to an existing one). Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: English dictionary (Re: 2015 -- Our 30th Anniversary) - OOPS
I am even more confusing than usual. Alphonso thinks that the English dictionary is broken, but it does not appear to be and the breakage may be related to some problem in the user profile, as Andrea reported. I confused this simple case with others where the remedy is also to delete the user profile. There's still no wrong answer here, but my response is not relevant to the situation being complained about. -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:28 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: English dictionary (Re: 2015 -- Our 30th Anniversary) There is no wrong answer here. The question is, do you want to fix your immediate problem, or are you willing to wait until there is something in the installer to destroy your profile every time you install an update, or something else? Andrea described the state of affairs and the options for working around it that are available now. [ ... ] -Original Message- From: Alphonso Whitfield III [mailto:awhitfi...@vital-inet.com] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 20:07 To: market...@openoffice.apache.org Cc: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: English dictionary (Re: 2015 -- Our 30th Anniversary) Wrong answer.The end user should not have to fix anything it should work when the product is downloaded or the application should not be included in the download. It worked without difficulty prior to the latest version being released. I sent true end users to download the software , they downloaded the software and the spell check dictionary did not work. This damages our credibility as an alternative solution to pay for products that are available. What is the timeline for the download to be corrected? Alphonso Whitfield III 912-590-6266 Sales Office 912-590-6139 Ops Center i...@thevitalportal.com Vital Inc. 315 Plant Ave Suite E Waycross, Georgia 31501 - Original Message - From: Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org To: dev@openoffice.apache.org, market...@openoffice.apache.org Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 4:44:54 PM Subject: English dictionary (Re: 2015 -- Our 30th Anniversary) On 27/10/2014 Alphonso Whitfield III wrote: When is the English language dictionary going to be fixed in the spell checker application? The English dictionary is not supposed to be fixed since it already works. If it doesn't work for you, try resettin your user profile. There are plenty of explanations around, see for example https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12426 Note that your comment has nothing to do with the original topic of this discussion. Please do change at least the subject (and possibly start a new discussion instead of replying to an existing one). Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: marketing-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: marketing-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSS] User support vs issues
-Original Message- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 16:33 To: OOo Apache Subject: [DISCUSS] User support vs issues We've noticed many more items filed as issues lately that fall into the category of user support. In an effort to track down the origination of this, it seems our Help Wanted page on the planning wiki might be a contributing factor: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Help+Wanted See item #2 under Easy. Are there some suggestions for different wording for this? We certainly DO want people to report things that don't work as advertised, but how to differentiate issues from user support is the challenge. orcnote It might be good to re-order that list so that the most likely response for someone with a problem and is a novice around trouble-shooting would get to the appropriate place first. This may mean putting the forums at the top of the list. Also, offering an either-or dev@ versus users@ is probably not helpful for folks who are not clear about the difference. A BIGGER PROBLEM: The I need help with OpenOffice link at http://www.openoffice.org/ is not responsive to someone who clicks that link when they are in difficulty. I think there needs to be quick differentiation among 1. Having trouble with the software or installation 2. Having trouble getting something to work 3. Wanting to learn more Filing a bug report should probably be after looking on the Forums first. A related concern. Filing a bug report that is clear enough to have a reproducible demonstration of the problem takes a great deal of effort. That usually means the reports need to be curated and the user engaged. When I see the number of ancient similar bug reports that are in the Bugzilla, I want to run screaming away as far as I can get. And I like to think I am relatively patient. /orcnote -- - MzK One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. -- Friedrich Nietzsche - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: color names in Math
-Original Message- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 17:02 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: color names in Math On 10/28/2014 03:25 PM, Regina Henschel wrote: Hi Kay, Kay Schenk schrieb: On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 8:27 AM, Regina Henschel rb.hensc...@t-online.de wrote: Hi Kay, Kay Schenk schrieb: Hi Regina -- I saw that you had already made some changes yesterday re i118191 https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=118191 I have not investigated color renderings in AOO at all in terms of values, but my first thought is we should be consistent across modules on how this is done. RGB vs HTML? I have compared Calc to StarMath to HTML in the attachments. There is currently no consistence between Calc and Math. Kind regards Regina Thanks for your research. I started thinking maybe making these consistent across all modules (really I have not looked into this yet), would be a good easy fix for a new volunteer. What do you think? For module Math it is too late to make it an easy fix, because the fix is finished, beside the question, what color to use. When I started I had no idea how easy or hard it would be. Right, I saw your changes but didn't evaluate the extent. For Calc I have looked around, but could not find the place yet. So if someone can provide a pointer, then it might work. But I'm not sure because localization is involved. Back to the question, which color to use: Foreign (not OpenOffice or LibreOffice) .odf documents will use the html-color-names and those names are standardized. So for that names I think, there is no choice, we have to render them as they are defined in the standard. Do you agree? Of course, we have to use what is defined in the standard. So the color name red will be #ff in Math as it is already in Calc, and the color name blue will be #ff in Math as it is already in Calc. That gives a more consistent use and solves issue i118191. But old documents will be rendered different. The color name green in Math has the same rendering as green in html, so that can stay. For Calc it can be solved, when the color name lime is allowed too and mapped to the light green and green to the dark green. Color names are not stored in the Calc files and therefore old documents are not affected. The question is, what to do with names cyan and magenta? These names do not belong to the standard. So we can decide, which color OpenOffice renders and which color it writes to the file. If Math will use them the same way as Calc, then cyan has to be rendered same as aqua and magenta same as fuchsia. OpenOffice writes currently aqua and fuchsia to the MathML part of the file already. That would make the names consistent between Math and Calc and between rendering via StarMath and rendering via pure MathML. But old documents would be rendered different. Shall I change the rendering of cyan and magenta to the light colors too? Personally, I would make them consistent from this day forward, so I would say yes make MathML the same as Calc. I just found this reference area for color codes/names-- http://www.rapidtables.com/web/color/cyan-color.htm cyan = aqua in rgb http://www.rapidtables.com/web/color/purple-color.htm same for magenta = fuchsia Others may have a different opinion though. orcnote I've lost track, here, of what is recorded in the ODF file as a color choice (in MathML and in other places where there are color choices) and what is presented to the user as the name for the color (also on any drop-down from a sample of the color in a color-picker). Another place to figure out what is going on is the colors that were implemented beyond the 16 standard RGB names in HTML/XHTML. In that case, cyan is the same as cyan1 (and aqua) and magenta is the same as fuschia - that is, they are the brightest forms of the colors. Another way of looking at it: cyan/aqua is the complement of red, magenta/fuschia is the complement of green. /orcnote Kind regards Regina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- - MzK One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. -- Friedrich Nietzsche - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Can open Open office add?
Have you checked the definition of these functions, like SUM(), in the OpenFormula specification before you get too carried away? Those have to be reconciled with the data type that a cell is identified as carrying. So if the cell is identified as carrying Text, rather than Number, the rules of OpenFormula prevail. Now, OpenFormula does not dictate how the type of a cell is established and how entries via the UI are converted, so you have some leeway there. Just be careful, please. Also, it is preferable, when comparing what is correct or not in interchange among implementations, to compare with the way the same ODS file (not XLS) is processed when opened by Excel 2013, for example. If there is still an interoperability discrepancy, we can narrow that down. (Conversions among ODS and XSL[X] just create even more places for possible round-trip defects having nothing to do with the rules for the SUM function itself.) Finally, is there a bug report on this, with an example of what is claimed to be a defective computation?. It would be good to ground this situation with some actual spreadsheet files that we can all inspect and be clear about what we are looking at. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail -Original Message- From: Darren Myers [mailto:myers_dar...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 06:30 To: Max Merbald; dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: Can open Open office add? Hello I have been working in IT for 32 years, from Mainframe design through to cloud integrations within VM ESX servers I build. So I know a little bit about hardware and software. I found the issue, and a team of developers I know have found a resolution. The backend code for the function doesn't equate for single routines of sum in other formats based on the cell, that why it errors. However they have proposed a code change that sums any value numeric where the format is not equal to an integer. The code allows and can distingish the Value enetered, irraspective of format, and provides the total. At the moment OpenOffice doesn't, its flawed. Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:37:48 +0100 From: max.merb...@gmx.de To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; myers_dar...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Can open Open office add? Hello there, I used to have a Star Writer from 1988 (Version 3.0) and it was just only a text processing program and did not contain any spreadsheat as it was not a calculation program. I believe the full Star Office only came during the 1990s. I can't tell, however, where the spreadsheets from StarOffice originated. Second, of course AOO Calc can add. I've never encountered any problem with it regarding simple calculations like adding. What I have encountered multiple times, however, in 25 years of working with computers is that some people don't really know how to use some software correctly and blame the resulting errors on the software. Often enough they sincerely believe something is wrong with the software while the actual mistake was their own, using, if we go back to the calc programme, a flawed formula or something. Maybe that was the case here. Max Am 29.10.2014 um 04:57 schrieb jonathon: On 29/10/14 02:36, F C. Costero wrote: Forwarding in case Darren isn't subscribed. And I see now that my reference below to 30 years should have been somewhat less, but still many years. Picky. I have no idea if the StarWriter from 1985 included that functionality, but it was not uncommon in spreadsheets of that era. By 1990, it would have been a mandatory feature. jonathon * English - detected * English * English javascript:void(0); - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Can open Open office add?
-Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:r...@robweir.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 08:10 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; Dennis Hamilton Cc: myers_dar...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Can open Open office add? On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: Have you checked the definition of these functions, like SUM(), in the OpenFormula specification before you get too carried away? Those have to be reconciled with the data type that a cell is identified as carrying. So if the cell is identified as carrying Text, rather than Number, the rules of OpenFormula prevail. Now, OpenFormula does not dictate how the type of a cell is established and how entries via the UI are converted, so you have some leeway there. Just be careful, please. Also, it is preferable, when comparing what is correct or not in interchange among implementations, to compare with the way the same ODS file (not XLS) is processed when opened by Excel 2013, for example. If there is still an interoperability discrepancy, we can narrow that down. (Conversions among ODS and XSL[X] just create even more places for possible round-trip defects having nothing to do with the rules for the SUM function itself.) Finally, is there a bug report on this, with an example of what is claimed to be a defective computation?. It would be good to ground this situation with some actual spreadsheet files that we can all inspect and be clear about what we are looking at. Another factor, when dealing with text, rather than numbers, in a cell is the locale. The string 1,000 could be interpreted differently in an English spreadsheet document versus a German one. orcnote A yes, all of the issues around internationalization of text entries taken as numbers. Important. Also, I forgot that there must also be preservation of interoperability with ODS in LibreOffice as well as determining the alignment with Excel 2013 handling of ODS files. /orcnote -Rob -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail -Original Message- From: Darren Myers [mailto:myers_dar...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 06:30 To: Max Merbald; dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: Can open Open office add? Hello I have been working in IT for 32 years, from Mainframe design through to cloud integrations within VM ESX servers I build. So I know a little bit about hardware and software. I found the issue, and a team of developers I know have found a resolution. The backend code for the function doesn't equate for single routines of sum in other formats based on the cell, that why it errors. However they have proposed a code change that sums any value numeric where the format is not equal to an integer. The code allows and can distingish the Value enetered, irraspective of format, and provides the total. At the moment OpenOffice doesn't, its flawed. Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:37:48 +0100 From: max.merb...@gmx.de To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; myers_dar...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Can open Open office add? Hello there, I used to have a Star Writer from 1988 (Version 3.0) and it was just only a text processing program and did not contain any spreadsheat as it was not a calculation program. I believe the full Star Office only came during the 1990s. I can't tell, however, where the spreadsheets from StarOffice originated. Second, of course AOO Calc can add. I've never encountered any problem with it regarding simple calculations like adding. What I have encountered multiple times, however, in 25 years of working with computers is that some people don't really know how to use some software correctly and blame the resulting errors on the software. Often enough they sincerely believe something is wrong with the software while the actual mistake was their own, using, if we go back to the calc programme, a flawed formula or something. Maybe that was the case here. Max Am 29.10.2014 um 04:57 schrieb jonathon: On 29/10/14 02:36, F C. Costero wrote: Forwarding in case Darren isn't subscribed. And I see now that my reference below to 30 years should have been somewhat less, but still many years. Picky. I have no idea if the StarWriter from 1985 included that functionality, but it was not uncommon in spreadsheets of that era. By 1990, it would have been a mandatory feature. jonathon * English - detected * English * English javascript:void(0); - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e
RE: [Website] System requirements
-Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 23:51 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: [Website] System requirements Marcus wrote: right, removing would produce more confusion because AOO 4.x stil lruns on XP even when we don't do any active fixing for it. What about to add a few words with a link to this webpage: http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/endofsupport.aspx We don't need that. Windows XP exists. OpenOffice runs on it. Done. Our site is already too verbose in many other respects, it is not our task to warn XP users that Microsoft is not giving them support any longer. I think when we write the following it should be clear and current enough: Free memory of 256 Mbytes RAM (512 MB RAM recommended) orcnote I am puzzled by statements about free memory. How is an user expected to understand that? Windows XP is a virtual-memory based operating system. As far as I know, AOO does not lock down any pages. Statements in term of installed RAM are the best one can do. Some suggestion about minimum HDD size free space for install and operation makes more sense. /orcnote This is a good improvement to the text. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: color names in Math
Fascinating. So there is basically an interoperability bug between the Starmath code and the MathML RGB coding. Notes below. -Original Message- From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.hensc...@t-online.de] Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2014 05:20 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: color names in Math Hi Andrea, Andrea Pescetti schrieb: On 29/10/2014 Regina Henschel wrote: [ ... ] OpenOffice has written red to StarMath code in the annotation element and #ff to the MathML part. That is the correct mapping. But in rendering, OpenOffice has not shown the color #ff but the color #80. I agree with your proposals on how to handle the broken color mapping. Is it feasible to switch to writing the RGB values to the file instead of color names? I have looked at it, for to be able to use the #rgb and #rrggbb notations, which are allowed in MathML. My idea was to allow such notations in StarMath too. But that is a larger task and has a lot of problems. For example the current implementation of the StarMath parser handles all content as tokens, but does not keep the context of the tokens. So the hash # is turned to a token TPOUND. And for #00ff00 the next token would be TNUMBER, but for #ff the next token would be TIDENT (=identifier). As # is used as delimiter in matrix and stack, the context is needed to handle # different, when it follows a color command. In the import filter for MathML it is no problem. There the token for color has the complete value #00ff00 (for example) as token value and it would be possible to write the correct color value into the node of the model. Would this ensure less equivocal compatibility with the standards and other suites? orcnote It seems using #RGB codings is the reliable way to interchange since it does not depend on discrepancies in the names given to the codes. It even avoids internationalization issues. /orcnote Writing #rrggbb values in StarMath would make it unambiguous. I hesitate to start in that direction. It needs an own discussion (new thread) about the future of StarMath. Perhaps we should go in the same direction as with the old binary formats and drop it totally. MathML is much richer than the existing StarMath language. To be able to really use MathML 2.0, the StarMath language would have to be extended and who will do that? I have not even found a specification of the language. orcnote It strikes me that the way to deal with the red disparity is to have #80 written in the MathML where Starmath red is intend and to not include the StarMath code. On re-imput to OpenOffice, or to the StarMath, the name can then be properly re-derived from the #RGB. So StarMath red is not broken, interop with the correct color happens. Except for the problem below. /orcnote Would colors written this way be properly remapped to their names when reopening the file? The mapping is already done in case the annotation is missing, the value #ff is mapped to StarMath red, but red has been rendered as #80. orcnote This mapping #ff to StarMath red is definitely a bug. Does StarMath have no color-name equivalent for #ff? Does it have similar problems for the other primaries, #00ff00 and #ff? If the problem is that StarMath has limited color choices, there is a significant problem having that interfere with interop of ODF documents having MathML. /orcnote If I read correctly, you said that this is what Calc does, and it looks much less error-prone. The color names do not exist in ODF file format, but file format uses #rrggbb values directly. So there is no problem with definitions made in Format Cell Numbers. The problem in Calc is, that it is possible to use a format code as string in the function TEXT and so the color names can be used indirectly. orcnote In the OpenFormula specification of ODF 1.2, the TEXT function format code is left as implementation-defined. That raises two obligations it seems to me: 1. Implementation-Defined means the OpenOffice definition must be published in some easily-found form that others can consult for testing, verification, and determination of interoperability cases. Assuming that the TextFormatCode text value cannot be taken from a cell reference, there is no internationalization problem, since Calc can translate other-language expressions to a single code, if desired. If a cell-carried or formula-derived text value is (ever) allowed, support for names here becomes more difficult. (Note: This is not about what OpenOffice Calc shows to users or allows to be entered, but what is actually conveyed in the file. Ideally, there is some harmony though.) 2. It also means that the definition by other implementations of OpenFormula need to be considered. The obvious ones that come to mind are the Excel support for ODF OpenFormula, the support
RE: color names in Math
Regina, Thanks for the detailed analysis. This is definitely a very messy situation. Notes below. -Original Message- From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.hensc...@t-online.de] Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2014 12:32 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: color names in Math Hi Dennis, some corrections :( Read my other mail too. Dennis E. Hamilton schrieb: Fascinating. So there is basically an interoperability bug between the Starmath code and the MathML RGB coding. Yes. [..] orcnote In the OpenFormula specification of ODF 1.2, the TEXT function format code is left as implementation-defined. That raises two obligations it seems to me: 1. Implementation-Defined means the OpenOffice definition must be published in some easily-found form that others can consult for testing, verification, and determination of interoperability cases. The only reference I know is the in-build help. orcnote I could only find two examples under TEXT function. I tried some of the formats under Number Format Codes and I could not make a TEXT with Format work at all, using AOO 4.1.1 on Windows 8.1 x64. /orcnote Assuming that the TextFormatCode text value cannot be taken from a cell reference A reference to a cell is possible. orcnote Oh, I read the ODF 1.2 Part 2 6.20.23 incorrectly. So it is Format Code and it is any expression that produces a text value. So yes, References are possible. OK, then rewriting between the user and the document format is not useful, since these can be from the values in other cells. So that also means any international variations have to all be accepted by an OpenFormula consumer with the same implementation-defined FormatCode cases. /orcnote [ ... ] 2. It also means that the definition by other implementations of OpenFormula need to be considered. The obvious ones that come to mind are the Excel support for ODF OpenFormula, the support in Gnumerics, and of course LibreOffice. All of these implementations are expected to publish their definitions for TextFormatCode values, and some cooperation would be valuable in this context. /orcnote That might be better discussed in the ODF TC. Perhaps the OASIS Wiki would be a good place to collect such information - with the constantly recurring question, who will do it? orcnote Only Members of the ODF TC can create content on the OASIS Wiki for the ODF TC. Also, I think only members can create JIRA issues. They are readable in public, but not writable by anyone but the TC. /orcnote [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: AOO Security Check on Browser-Launched Documents
My bad. I thought PNG attachments would go through. I created a Bugzilla on this simply to share the behavior and the message that results: https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=125846. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 17:30 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: AOO Security Check on Browser-Launched Documents Seeing the message, below, I went directly to http://people.apache.org/~nick/NickTemplateACEU14.odp from the e-mail note in my e-mail reader (Outlook desktop). When I indicated that I wanted to open the file directly, I was warned about the absence of any digital signature on the AOO 4.1.1 executable. This is in Windows 8.1 Pro x64 using Internet Explorer 11. If I download the file instead, I can launch it without trouble, so this is not a major issue. It does give one pause. It seems to be a weird case. - Dennis [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: grammar for StarMath
I have an incomplete result. You may have already explored this.
First, saving an AOO Formula (.odf) as a StarMath 5.0 Formula (.smf) does not
seem to be exported. There is no import for it either.
You can still save as an OpenDocument.org .sxm formula or an ODF Formula
(.odf). They are nearly identical.
Both .sxm and .odf are Zip Packages and nearly identical. In particular, the
content.xml is a MathML formula that has a StarMath 5.0 formula as an
annotation. It is exactly the same formula that you end up editing in the
lower window of the Apache OpenOffice Math (or LibreOffice Math) application.
So the upper window shows the MathML rendering, and the lower window shows the
StarMath 5.0! And the content.xml carries both.
In effect, the Elements Tool and the hand editing that you do is creating
StarMath that is then displayed via MathML in the upper, graphical-formula
window.
That doesn't provide the StarMath grammar except by example, but it is a way to
build them experimentally and see.
Finally, this led me to the Help Topic Math formula editor and click the
Formulas link to get to Welcome to the OpenOffice Math Help page. The
subtopic Formula Reference Tables seems to be the key. The color function is
under Attributes.
StarMath uses {...} for precedence/grouping control in the same manner as TeX
and LaTeX formulas.
We can probably figure out the grammar by making examples of all the operators
and other oddities.
- Dennis
-Original Message-
From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.hensc...@t-online.de]
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 15:56
To: AOO dev
Subject: grammar for StarMath
Hi all,
does there exist any developer documentation about StarMath, e.g. the
grammar?
Kind regards
Regina
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RE: grammar for StarMath
I'm interested in your long-term task. I think that would be useful to do.
I'm willing to work on that with you, especially if there is no hurry.
I don't think there is any operator precedence in StarMath 5.0, which is why it
is important to use explicit { ... }. It would be interesting to know what the
rule for implicit multiplication might be also, concerning the 2b in a+{2b}.
That should be easy to check, and also to determine how clean unary versus
binary operations are distinguished.
I'm not clear that a grammar is easy to derive in the sense of BNF. One way
would be to try enough of the operators, brackets, etc., and see how they map.
One could also look at the parser in the code. Before going too far down that
road, perhaps the OpenOffice Forums have something in their collection of
material.
I expect that the parser is relatively simple with many reserved works,
providing more of a markup notation than a formula notation. (I suspect the
result is presentation of a formula more than it is something that can be
interpreted as a formula in the sense of evaluation or symbolic manipulation.)
I just looked at the commands.src file in AOO/trunk/main/staremath/source/ and
I think that tells you a lot about the grammar. I couldn't find anything about
the attributes. Experiments may be needed there.
My thinking is that there are some useful tests to run. In particular, will
OpenOffice Math work properly on an ODF Formula document that has no
annotation? (I.e., the StarMath portion is missing.) If the StarMath is
required, there is a pretty significant defect in either ODF 1.2 Part 1 or in
the implementation, since there is not enough information for someone to
interoperate one way, the other, or both.
If OpenOffice Math will open a MathML that has no (recognizable) annotation,
you could check the example you have, and others, by seeing what StarMath AOO
shows when such a MathML is loaded.
That would provide information for deducing the grammar. In particular, it
would help understand where {...} are needed for some of the attributes, how
brackets and {...} interact, etc.
Is this interesting?
- Dennis
-Original Message-
From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.hensc...@t-online.de]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 00:18
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: grammar for StarMath
Hi Dennis,
thank you for looking at it. But I'm looking for a BNF or other form of
derivation rules or any kind of informal specification.
The exported MathML is known to have structural deficits, for example 'a
+ 2 b' will result in
mrow
mia/mi
mo stretchy=false+/mo
mn2/mn
/mrow
mib/mi
which is a structure '{a+2} b',
where it should be a structure 'a + {2 b}'.
It is a long-term task (in which I'm interested) to get a better
representation of the formulas in MathML and so be able to drop
StarMath. And therefore I'm looking for some developer information about
StarMath. If such does not exist, the way through examining code and
examples will be harder.
Kind regards
Regina
Dennis E. Hamilton schrieb:
I have an incomplete result. You may have already explored this.
First, saving an AOO Formula (.odf) as a StarMath 5.0 Formula (.smf) does not
seem to be exported. There is no import for it either.
You can still save as an OpenDocument.org .sxm formula or an ODF Formula
(.odf). They are nearly identical.
Both .sxm and .odf are Zip Packages and nearly identical. In particular, the
content.xml is a MathML formula that has a StarMath 5.0 formula as an
annotation. It is exactly the same formula that you end up editing in the
lower window of the Apache OpenOffice Math (or LibreOffice Math) application.
So the upper window shows the MathML rendering, and the lower window shows
the StarMath 5.0! And the content.xml carries both.
In effect, the Elements Tool and the hand editing that you do is creating
StarMath that is then displayed via MathML in the upper, graphical-formula
window.
That doesn't provide the StarMath grammar except by example, but it is a way
to build them experimentally and see.
Finally, this led me to the Help Topic Math formula editor and click the
Formulas link to get to Welcome to the OpenOffice Math Help page. The
subtopic Formula Reference Tables seems to be the key. The color function
is under Attributes.
StarMath uses {...} for precedence/grouping control in the same manner as TeX
and LaTeX formulas.
We can probably figure out the grammar by making examples of all the
operators and other oddities.
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RE: grammar for StarMath
Regina,
I'm aligned with all of your comments below.
I just visited the Forums and found 243 threads on OpenOffice Math,
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewforum.php?f=12. These go back to
2007.
There is also a link there to documentation on OpenOffice.org:
There's Getting Started with Math and also a Math Guide,
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/Chapters.
The Math Guide provides a nice informal guide to the StarMath 5.0 notation,
with many examples.
I think we could start there looking for a grammar.
I fear the bug you see is not a bug, but a pitfall with how the StarMath
notation works. There are warnings about similar cases in the Guide. Using
{...} is very important.
It appears that 2b is treated as two terms, a numeral followed by a symbol.
So a+2b ends up parsing the same as {a+2}b. That is a little odd, but it makes
for a very simple language, and the user does have control.
To show how this is done in a kind of mindless way and the MathML might be
quite unexpected, notice what is displayed, versus what the MathML is for
a+b times c newline {a+b} times c newline a+{b times c} newline
a times b + c newline a times {b+c} newline {a times b}+c
- Dennis
-Original Message-
From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.hensc...@t-online.de]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 13:46
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: grammar for StarMath
Hi Dennis,
Dennis E. Hamilton schrieb:
I'm interested in your long-term task. I think that would be useful
to do. I'm willing to work on that with you, especially if there is
no hurry.
That is great. My current state is very early: looking around and
collecting information, and trying to understand the source code and get
a structured view on it.
From my side, there is no hurry. I have still my daily
job as teacher and therefore most things I do for OpenOffice (or ODF) I
do in the holidays. And outside the holidays I am often time-poor, which
you notice from my slow reaction. So please do not expect quick
improvements.
I'm happy, that you already contribute ideas. Find some comments inside.
I don't think there is any operator precedence in StarMath 5.0, which
is why it is important to use explicit { ... }. It would be
interesting to know what the rule for implicit multiplication might
be also, concerning the 2b in a+{2b}. That should be easy to
check, and also to determine how clean unary versus binary operations
are distinguished.
I need to find a way to read the generated node tree. The errors in the
MathML export might originate in the filter or in an insufficient node
tree.
I'm not clear that a grammar is easy to derive in the sense of BNF.
One way would be to try enough of the operators, brackets, etc., and
see how they map. One could also look at the parser in the code.
Before going too far down that road, perhaps the OpenOffice Forums
have something in their collection of material.
You are right. Forum and mailing list have different users.
I expect that the parser is relatively simple with many reserved
works, providing more of a markup notation than a formula notation.
(I suspect the result is presentation of a formula more than it is
something that can be interpreted as a formula in the sense of
evaluation or symbolic manipulation.) I just looked at the
commands.src file in AOO/trunk/main/staremath/source/ and I think
that tells you a lot about the grammar. I couldn't find anything
about the attributes. Experiments may be needed there.
My thinking is that there are some useful tests to run. In
particular, will OpenOffice Math work properly on an ODF Formula
document that has no annotation? (I.e., the StarMath portion is
missing.) If the StarMath is required, there is a pretty significant
defect in either ODF 1.2 Part 1 or in the implementation, since there
is not enough information for someone to interoperate one way, the
other, or both.
The defect in not in ODF. ODF refers to MathML 2.0 and has no own
specifications. From point of standardization, OpenOffice should not
write StarMath into ODF documents, but use it only for the old OOoXML
format. MathML 2.0 itself is well maintained by the W3C. Therefore I
think that all problems have their origin in the implementation in
OpenOffice.
You can test the import filter without generating .odf documents, when
you start Math module and then use Tools Import formula. You need a
complete .mml document, a math../math fragment will not work.
Seamonkey (Firefox) shows .mml documents without plug-in, so a
comparison exists. Currently I have not installed Amaya (unfortunately
W3C stopped development), but Amaya is suitable for comparisons too.
The other way is of cause to simple delete the annotation. I had done
that, when I tested, whether the MathML part of my introduced colors works.
If OpenOffice Math will open a MathML that has no (recognizable)
annotation, you
Building AOO on Windows - More Options
I've been experimenting, in a very limited way, over build techniques using Visual Studio 2013 Desktop Express and MSYS2 (an alternative to CygWin). I am barely stumbling along although I have manage to build other projects that build with either MSYS2 or CygWin and produce native code. I've not tried the AOO build just yet. My reason for doing this is to see what are the prospects for using the VC++ 2013 compiler to build 64-bit software and also see how to build any chunks of AOO for 64-bit Windows. Yesterday, there was a very useful announcement at a conference that was all about Visual Studio 2015 and some big moves that are being made to work in open-source settings. Along with that announcement, the Visual Studio 2013 Community Edition was announced. The Community Edition is free and available now. It provides everything that the three 2013 Express editions (Desktop, Windows [Universal], and Web) provide. (And they can still use side-by-side but I see no reason to do that.) What may be of interest to developers here is that the Community Edition also includes MFC and ATL. It allows mixed projects, allows Python Tools, Visual Studio extensions, already includes F#, and has many more templates. With the libraries and the VC++ compiler, there is cross-compiling to x86, x64, and ARM. There can now be complex solutions/builds, and the compiler is perfectly usable in makefile projects. There is Git integration and the ability to work between VS on the desktop and clones from GitHub (clones) and elsewhere, including the free Visual Studio Online service that can be used with VS 2013, etc. This is just a heads-up. I installed the Community Edition last night and I have also downloaded the .iso. The ISO is almost 7GB, so if you get that you might have to be content to mount it as a virtual drive long enough to do the install. The web install takes a while but is not so demanding. I will be fiddling around more with this for some forensic work I am interested in. I hope to chew on the AOO code enough to find out if this is workable in (1) building with GCC and related tools using MSYS2 and then (2) substituting the VC++ compiler and libraries. Nothing is going to happen quickly. I am dabbling. Anyone who wants to look into the Visual Studio 2013 Community edition can find it on the page http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/downloads/ under Visual Studio Community Express. Check the System Requirements too. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: emails to issues list
As I recall, there may be an administrator function to customize the reject message when an Administrator bounces a post to the list. Rob Weir probably knows much more about it. This would allow a fairly friction-free moderation activity for rapid bouncing of these misfired message while automatically suggesting that issues be reported to one of (1) users @oo.a.o, (2) dev @oo.a.o, or (3) the Bugzilla, with perhaps a link to the web page on how to submit issues, depending on what the issue is. I suppose if it is a security matter, then security @oo.a.o could be used, but folks need to understand about what is a security matter and what is not. There may be a page about that also. [This is a drive-by shooting. I'm not administering lists any longer and can't dig deeper.] - Dennis -Original Message- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 14:31 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: emails to issues list On 11/18/2014 11:55 AM, Mathias Röllig wrote: Am 18.11.2014 um 19:06 schrieb Kay Schenk: Issue-8621 created. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-8621 see update to this issue. I guess there isn't a way to do this. Oh well. We will continue with normal moderation on issues. Thank you, but I cannot believe that in a big mailing system it isn't possible to set a simple rule: Reject ALL except FROM: = bugzi...@apache.org. :-( :-( :-( Regards, Mathias I don't know anything about mechanisms in place to accomplish something like you suggest. But, if you'd like to find out more or help out the infrastructure team, you might take a look at: http://www.apache.org/dev/infra-volunteer.html -- - MzK One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. -- Friedrich Nietzsche - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Link broken on Help Wanted confluence page
If you can get server logs specific to openoffice.org, there are many tools that will summarize 404s and indicate what each distinct URL was and how many times that URL has been attempted. I expect Infra knows best, maybe for CWiki too. Aren't there AOO admins for the MWiki? - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:r...@robweir.com] Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 07:57 To: market...@openoffice.apache.org Cc: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Link broken on Help Wanted confluence page On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 4:53 AM, Antoine Chevrier 1antoinechevri...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. On the page Help Wanted https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Help+Wanted of ApacheOpenOffice confluence space, the link inside the top introduction section - link called 14 Ways to contribute .../... - goes to a 404 page. I can't help for fix it. But maybe somebody of this list could. Thanks, I fixed that, replacing with a link to another copy of that same article. This sounds like an area that we could/should automate, identifying broken links. Does anyone know of a good tool for this? I also noticed quite a few outdated references to incubator-era resources, e.g., ooo-dev mailing list, incubator versions of the website, etc. We fixed these old references in the static part of out website by simply grepping the source files. Is there any similar way to find these in CWiki/MWiki? -Rob Antoine - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Unofficial photos ApacheCon EU 2014
I've added names of those I could figure out. I am not certain about Andrea. Is that him? Also, who is in the seat in one of the photos? - Dennis -Original Message- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2014 14:59 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Unofficial photos ApacheCon EU 2014 On 11/22/2014 06:23 AM, Michal Hriň wrote: Hi all, Here some usable photos from my tablet from ApacheCon. https://www.flickr.com/photos/101590593@N06/ Regards, Michal Hriň Thanks for taking these and sharing... -- - MzK One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. -- Friedrich Nietzsche - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: OpenOffice and Infrastructure: ApacheCon meeting
Concerning the blog, I think I wrote something like the first post on that blog, and I did some curation also. I agree Roller is not friendly for either of those activities. [I just confirmed that I am still an editor and I just now curated many comments on recent posts that had never been moderated onto the blog. There is an amazing amount of junk comments too. If you need someone to do this on a scheduled basis, I can take that on. I do allow off-topic but legitimate comments, because that is sometimes the only way of learning about some questions and concerns. Of course, any editor can go in and alter the moderations.] I did discover that I could use Windows Live Writer to produce posts, but there were some mystery steps to get them to move through the workflow. Moving to WordPress.com would probably be useful simply because it removes friction and there is extensive support (and, although not observed when logged in as the author, there are ads presented to public readers of the blog posts on wordpress.com). There are many ways to make WordPress posts. There are some meta-issues, partly having to do with blogs not being wikis (editable with histories or something else equivalent to source-control). First, there is the creation of accounts and how that will work with multiple editors and authors. And the serious need to curate comments and get rid of spam. That will become someone's duty. The WordPress notifications about spam and new comments seem to be more efficient, but they have to go somewhere. I suppose it could be to a mailing list shared by the editors. Second, and perhaps what was most daunting in my case, is that spontaneous blog authoring is not the model. The AOO blog needs to be written in the voice of the project, whatever that is, and that is behind the usual procedure of posting drafts, allowing edits, and even using some form of consensus for posts to move forward toward publication. My initial distaste for that had to do with some difficulties with what occurred for me as too autocratic in early podling life as well as inexperience with AOO collegiality, namely trusting others not to hack up my efforts. My outlet was to have my own blog (which I have may of anyhow) and an automatic link by one post tag into the Committers Planet, which picks posts out of my RSS feeds. On the other hand, I am now more comfortable with community edits, whether of posts or progress reports, although I do neither at the moment [;). So there is need for an inviting workflow that does not put too much friction in the way of potential contributors, many of whom may be wary of correction and discouraging reception. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2014 11:31 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Cc: infrastruct...@apache.org Subject: OpenOffice and Infrastructure: ApacheCon meeting [ ... ] 9) Blog Roller is not nice or user-friendly for editors, and it is not linked to Apache accounts so one has to create a separate account for it anyway. If this move can increase participation, OpenOffice is free to move to Wordpress (preferably a hosted version on wordpress.com) and have blog.openoffice.org created and redirected to it (the current URL is https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/ ). Next action: OpenOffice dev list to assess whether a different setup can increase the (currently very scarce, and limited to Andrea in the last 6 months) blogging activity in the project. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Capstone 2013 Client Requirements Document Status?
Oh my. I wasn't around when that project was created. Is there any update on what was accomplished? It ended before Summer 2014, yes? I have the same itch, although I don’t think the builds should require Microsoft Project files. There are too many problems with those, along with other bloat. (One problem is how each release of the VS IDE updates them, so having those be committed to the code base screws things up for someone using older versions.) But I think clean builds using Microsoft tooling is a great idea, and it would be great if it did not require a POSIX shim and the friction that creates for what developers on the Windows platform are taught, know, and have free tools for. It could be all right to use a POSIX shim by those whose toolcraft favors it, but it should not be required. The availability of the Visual Studio 2013 Community Edition can have a great impact on this idea, since that now includes ATL, MFC, and much more, including built-in git support. A REQUEST: I'd like to see a module that was converted along the lines of this project to see if my ideas can also be applied to it. - Dennis THINKING OUT LOUD I see there are several more pages on the wiki about this project, so my hypothesis may already be refuted. Here it is, for now: There is a way of structuring a project repository so that the build ephemera and even the creation of VS Solutions/Projects is in directories that are not part of the shared code. I saw this done beautifully in a project on GitHub that built with gcc or Clang on Windows. (They needed C++11 features and apparently VC++ didn't have enough of those.) I think the same can be done with VC++ and makefile Projects. The VS IDE can still be used, with the benefits that provides, and one can use the toolset and Debug builds locally if the repository is structured properly. This provides local efficiencies in compile-test-revise, etc., without forcing onto others. It should be possible to use a different IDE (Eclipse, whatever), since that choice is not bolted into the repository and it can be factored in a way to allow that. I have the impression that it is not understood how well the VS toolset can be operated from the command line and scripts, no matter how well that is hidden when it is all driven from the IDE. I agree that dependency management and the ability to have separately buildable and testable modules is very important to figure out. That should be a feature rather than having to swallow the whole thing as a entrance test to AOO development. (I thought CMake could have been used that way too and I may be misunderstanding CMake and/or the rationale about not using it here. I would avoid it out of preference for factoring builds differently. [I don't use #ifdef much either [;]). I favor the approach in the project of starting on a module-by-module basis and having everything still build completely after each module rearrangement. It does mean that CygWin (or the friendlier but less stable MSYS2) would need to still be used and the non-Windows CMake-generated builds must also not be messed up. The kind of repository reorganization that allows module separation has great appeal, and it is more aligned with how Git-hosted projects tend to be more-optimally coordinated. -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2014 02:39 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Unofficial photos ApacheCon EU 2014 [ ... ] Steve Hathaway (see https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Capstone_2013_Client_Requirements_Document ) [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Capstone 2013 Client Requirements Document Status?
Jan, Thanks for the very useful information. orcnotes below. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 03:24 To: Dennis Hamilton Cc: dev; shatha...@apache.org; jan iversen Subject: Re: Capstone 2013 Client Requirements Document Status? On 24 November 2014 at 00:56, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: Oh my. I wasn't around when that project was created. Is there any update on what was accomplished? It ended before Summer 2014, yes? [ ... ] We ended having a pretty good converting tool for the simple function groups, so in general this was more a proof of concept, than an actual implementation. I learned enough to verify, that with a couple of students one more semester we could have a microsoft visual studio solution running. orcnote Is this work all done in Corvalis? That's not quite a day-trip for Me, from Seattle, but I could visit while staying with my son in Portland. /orcnote The project files dont need to be svn, we have tested to have Cmake generator files, that can make both makefiles and project files. The whole subject was discussed earlier, and it was clearly stated that we do not want an extra build system, on top of the unfinished ones we already have, that is the main reason why the results never went further than the wiki, the branch, and our google drive. orcnote Great about keeping projects out of the SVN/Git repositories. I scanned through other pages on the Build Project and learned a great deal on how difficult it is to untangle the AOO structure at https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis. The gyrations to set up a Windows compile are amazingly gnarly and it is amazing how many little details have to be conquered, as shown by the good work at https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step#Windows_7 and other pages, all having pieces of the story that need to be consolidated somehow. The problem with CMake seems to be that it works for the complete build but that doesn't allow individual construction and testing of modules. There are some significant problems having dependencies such that a commonly used module is not rebuilt every time a module that depends on it is rebuilt. This is described as the Recursive Make problem and Having a topographical ordering that does no redundant builds is sought. Do I understand that correctly? There is also the problem of version dependencies in whatever VS projects and solutions CMake produces. I wonder if this is one of those problems for which one more level of indirection might be quite useful. Just a thought. /orcnote But I think clean builds using Microsoft tooling is a great idea, and it would be great if it did not require a POSIX shim and the friction that creates for what developers on the Windows platform are taught, know, and have free tools for. It could be all right to use a POSIX shim by those whose toolcraft favors it, but it should not be required. I do toogoal was to get rid of cygwin, and work like a windows programmer works. orcnote I sympathize with having counterparts of POSIX/Gnu Tools and perhaps still needing them for computational tasks that are part of the current build process. But most of those have Windows native counterparts but for command-line and file-system reference notation differences. One Reason I want a half-step using MSYS2 was that it will run native Windows tools just fine and that means one could also have Windows batch files for such things as firing up the VC++ compile chain in a way that does not require messing with the Windows registry, etc. Working like a windows programmer works may cast a net too wide. I agree that there is an important on-ramp via Visual Studio and the Windows tools. I do worry about the level of understanding of the platform that is needed to approach something as complex as AOO. I tend to want builds to be as simple as possible and having as few pre- requisites as possible. I have been working to separate the edit, compile, test, rinse repeat process, for which an IDE is ideal, from the simpler build process by which another can replicate the build, either because that is all they want to do or they are doing it to support working on a different part of the source. /orcnote The availability of the Visual Studio 2013 Community Edition can have a great impact on this idea, since that now includes ATL, MFC, and much more, including built-in git support. yes, and please do not forget that all committers can get the full version for free together with a bunch of other microsoft tools. orcnote That committers have, for free, something that other
RE: Who is active wiki and forum admin ?
To have complete visibility on Forum activity, Jan might need to have his Account on the Forum adjusted to Apache Observers status. This will provide Visibility to the Admin Forums on the EN Forum at least if Jan does not have that already. I recommend that happening since Jan has an eye on the server-level working of the Forums as well as administrative activity. On the EN Admin Forums Index I see recent thread activity in November and October. Also, some Automated posts on Forum admin go to private @oo.a.o (although I cannot confirm activity of that kind myself). Jan should let Hagar know what his Forum user ID is if the Apache Observers ceremony has not been completed for him already. (I don't know if this privilege is limited to PMC members or not. I still have my status and do not abuse it.) - Dennis -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 04:37 To: dev Subject: Re: Who is active wiki and forum admin ? On 24 November 2014 at 13:14, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: jan i wrote: Ideally we should have 2-3 admins for our wiki. When I look at the logs, I cannot see any admin actions over the last couple of months, and when I look at some of the new pages, I believe we are getting spammed again. I create MWiki accounts on a regular basis (from the web interface). So at least that activity should be visible. If you see spam, can you send some links? I saw that activity, but I had expected activity deleting pages etc. When I last maintained the servers, pages was deleted more or less weekly by a couple of people. Ideally we should have 1-2 admin pr national/language forum. Currently most forums seems to be without a admin, even the EN forum does not seem to have regular admin activity. Bear in mind though, I cannot judge how much admin work is needed on the forums. I understand that it can be painful to do so, but the fact that most forums seem to be without an admin is scary enough that it's worth to understand it better. Without looking at every single detail, do you have a couple of examples like on the Italian forum there is one admin and that admin hasn't posted in 6 months? (This is an example, I know that the current admin is active). What I would like to understand is if we do not have admins, or we have admins who never log in, or we have incompetent admins (that is, these people are active but you see badly administered forums). I did not go as far as to check the admin bit in the user table, I simply took a look at the logs for admin entries. I dont think we have incompetent admins, and I dont know how often they login or post. Also note that most day-to-day admin activity on the EN forum is done by the forum moderators, not by the forum administrators. As I wrote I am not familiar with the admin job on a forum, so maybe the lack of activity I see is normal. My intention is to keep the admins and the vm-admins updated before planned actions happen as well as this list in case of planned outages, so they can take appropriate action. This is an excellent idea. Actually, can we extract e-mails from all admins and put them together somewhere? If I still have the needed access, I can take care of it. Fact is, I'm not sure that all admins follow this list (and this should be fixed). Missing that, it's probably better to contact them personally, or through an alias, as you wish. I understood that there is a special mailing list for that kind of activity ? Making forums read-only is pretty easy, its a matter of disabling login and not allow anonymous posting. But then I will also ask the these forums are removed from the daily backup cycle. Sounds perfect to me. I guess Hagar's concern is the same as mine, i.e., useful content should not be put offline. We can add a prominent note saying that the forum is archived and that if someone is willing to moderate it they can write to the dev list. Somebody who knows how, need to add that...I think its a brilliant idea, if is html that needs to be uploaded I can take care of that part. And if I haven't written about this yet, thanks for being available to take care of our VMs! Np, please remember the logistic is not yet in place, hopefully the infra staff will soon find time to make it happen. rgds jan i. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Who is active wiki and forum admin ?
Rory, Can you or Hagar verify that the forwarding was updated to private @openoffice.apache.org after that changed from the incubator private e-mail list? The moderator for private @oo.a.o might need to check whether the Forum sending address has been allowed too. - Dennis Andrea: The name was chosen before the Forums fully joined AOO and there was much dancing around how governance would be coordinated in a manner that fulfilled the obligations for oversight by the [P]PMC. My impression is that the status quo is working just fine and the Forum team is doing a great job. I particularly appreciate how well Forum team members like Rory supports users @oo.a.o and serves as a gateway to the extensive Forum resources for those who come to mailing lists with problems. -Original Message- From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 12:12 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Who is active wiki and forum admin ? On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 21:02:58 +0100 Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: To have complete visibility on Forum activity, Jan might need to have his Account on the Forum adjusted to Apache Observers status. This will provide Visibility to the Admin Forums on the EN Forum at least if Jan does not have that already. I'd like to have that status (username: pescetti) too, since I am a moderator on the Italian forum but a volunteer on the English one. (All these names, including Apache observer, could have been chosen more carefully!). Also, some Automated posts on Forum admin go to private @oo.a.o I can't confirm this. I've never seen a message/notification from the forum to the private list. Regards, Andrea. The small number of matters that are discussed off-list are supposedly sent to the private list. There are very few; the last one was on 28 October 2014. -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: re open office
Before anyone accepts almost everyone at face value, it is useful to look at the download numbers and the distribution of platforms for which Apache OpenOffice is available and downloaded, and also what the latest release is. This information is available at the http://www.openoffice.org site and on the project blog at https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/. It is indeed the case that LibreOffice is packaged and delivered as part of several Linux distributions. Those choices, and the degree to which there is synchronization with latest releases (of either LibreOffice or Apache OpenOffice) are determined by the providers of those distributions. However, Linux downloads of Apache OpenOffice are also directly available. It takes a little more work to bring a Linux system up-to-date by obtaining the download directly. The links provided by Andrea are useful for that. If someone has difficulty with the install procedure for a given Linux distribution, discussing that on an Apache OpenOffice mailing list is valuable in helping project members determine where information and instructions can be improved as well as obtaining direct assistance from knowledgeable users. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, December 1, 2014 03:50 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: re open office On 01/12/2014 Sherry Winter wrote: I am concerned, I have used this software for years on windows. now I guess i cannot use on Linux. Is the software still being updated? really? OpenOffice works perfectly on Linux. You received two public answers to your e-mail, both explaining how to install the most recent version of OpenOffice on your system. Maybe you missed them since you are not subscribed to the list. See http://markmail.org/message/zmz5yf5zhl6yenll for the two answers you received on how to install OpenOffice 4.1.1 on Debian wheezy. And see http://openoffice.apache.org/mailing-lists.html for information on how to subscribe to our lists and avoid missing answers. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Vraag ivm licenties
However, if the system being used is a turn-key package under a license agreement, there may be constraints on what can be added and how it can be added. Google translation: Als het nieuwe systeem is een turn-key pakket onder een licentieovereenkomst, kunnen er beperkingen op wat kan worden toegevoegd en hoe het kan worden toegevoegd. Google Translation of original request: I currently work at a motor vehicle shop and we move on to a different system. Now we plan to switch to OpenOffice. Now we get the makers of the notification of the new system that we have to pay a license Openoffice.org to use it in the system. They even recommend this to buy. Is it that they are allowed to charge money for it? -Original Message- From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] Sent: Monday, December 1, 2014 03:20 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Cc: Michaël Jacobs Subject: Re: Vraag ivm licenties On Mon, 1 Dec 2014 12:00:23 +0100 Michaël Jacobs jacobs.mich...@hotmail.com wrote: Beste, Ik werk momenteel bij een Autogarage en wij stappen over naar een ander systeem. Nu zijn wij van plan over te stappen op Openoffice. Nu krijgen wij de melding van de makers van het nieuwe systeem dat wij een licentie moeten betalen op Openoffice.org om dit te kunnen gebruiken bij het systeem. Ze raden dit zelfs aan om te kopen.Klopt dit dat ze er geld voor mogen vragen? Alvast bedankt. Mvg, Jacobs Michaël OpenOffice can be downloaded free of any charge from www.openoffice.org/download You will automatically be redirected to SourceForge servers where the files are stored. Note: this is the official and only site from which it is advised to download OpenOffice. There are no unwanted add-ons, and no need for any payment, -- Rory O'Farrell ofarr...@iol.ie - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [PROPOSAL] Rejecting Quick Office Pro messages
+1 -Original Message- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 15:23 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Rejecting Quick Office Pro messages On 12/02/2014 02:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote: [ ... ] Since there are concerns that the power to decide what to reject can be too subjective, I'm asking that we (subject to lazy consensus) agree that Quick Office Pro posts can be rejected with the explanation note described above. This will get irrelevant messages out of the list and avoid dangerous misunderstandings: I've personally replied to several such posts and I've seen other users get confused and believe that the reports applied to OpenOffice instead of Quick Office Pro, thus leading to even more confusion. A well-written rejection notice can be much more effective. [ ... ] +1 on this proposal. And... I think we should be contacting Quick Office Pro about changing their support information if we haven't already. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org -- - MzK One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. -- Friedrich Nietzsche - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [DEV, WEBDAV] About issue i125194 and file lock under Webdav
It would be good to reconcile whatever that AOO code is attempting to do and the WebDAV locking model, specified now in RFC4918, http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4918. (There is a locking-related Errata item as well.) There is an extensive treatment of how much discovery and negotiation might be required, and how much is going to be a function of server-side implementation-dependent behavior. Whatever is done, it clearly should not be an overlay on WebDAV that only works when everyone is using a (matching) AOO release to access a WebDAV-stored document. The WebDAV mailing lists are pretty quiet these days (or my subscription has lapsed). That might be a good place for further clarification, if needed. That's an interesting task. Good luck and thanks for looking into it. -- Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail -Original Message- From: Giuseppe Castagno [mailto:giuseppe.casta...@acca-esse.eu] Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 02:49 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Spam (8.02):[DEV, WEBDAV] About issue i125194 and file lock under Webdav Hi all, it's some time I don't write to the list, but even though I last coded for AOO (was OOo then and some years have elapsed...) I continued to follow the project all along. Anyway, I'm writing about issue i125194 [1] because Davide Dozza discussed the problem with me and I decided to have a look into it, trying to provide a patch. I studied part of the involved the code and I found that some of the needed code is already in place, but it seems that the final implementation of the lock mechanism for webdav [2] is not fully implemented. Some questions: 1) I need some explanation on the way the webdav file lock is supposed to work. In webdav content provider [3],[4] or somewhere else? 2) currently the file lock mechanism is implemented in module sf2 using a dedicated hidden file [5], are other mechanisms for it? 3) I found a property named IsReadOnly, checked here [6] but nowhere this property is managed aside from receiving a default 'false' value. Was this prepared for the lock mechanisms managed somehow in module ucb? Of course I need to know if I'm talking nonsense on the above points :-). My set-up to debug AOO: Linux Ubuntu 14.04 emacs and gdb to edit and debug I submitted a ICLA to Apache Software Foundation on Apache Software on May 9th, 2012. Thanks in advance -- Kind Regards, Giuseppe Castagno Acca Esse http://www.acca-esse.eu giuseppe.castagno at acca-esse.eu [1] https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=125194 [2] http://www.webdav.org/specs/rfc4918.html#locking [3] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide/AppendixC/The_WebDAV_Content_Provider [4] http://opengrok.adfinis-sygroup.org/source/xref/aoo-trunk/main/ucb/source/ucp/webdav [5] http://opengrok.adfinis-sygroup.org/source/xref/aoo-trunk/main/sfx2/source/doc/docfile.cxx#1023 [6] http://opengrok.adfinis-sygroup.org/source/xref/aoo-trunk/main/sfx2/source/doc/docfile.cxx#1065 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [Wiki] Corrupted page
The page presents successfully for me also. Please be more specific. What do you see as corrupted. - Dennis -Original Message- From: FR web forum [mailto:ooofo...@free.fr] Sent: Friday, December 5, 2014 05:08 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: [Wiki] Corrupted page Hello team, See: https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FR/Calc:_fonction_TEST.Z If someone can do something. Thanks - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [Wiki] Corrupted page
I'm seeing it corrupted just now using Windows 8.1 and IE 11. About 2 hours ago, I saw it just fine. This is not a character-set encoding issue. It is being served as UTF8 and it does not improve if I change the encoding in my browser. It strikes me as a compression failure, since there is no meaningful text recognizable among the non-rendered codes. If I view source, there are no headers. Since we're forcing https on the Wiki it could also be an encryption problem in SSL/TLS. It could also be that the .Z filename is tripping up some browsers in conjunction with whatever the headers are. I did a wget on the URL and I obtained the HTML of the page just fine. When I changed the TEST.Z file name to TEST_Z.htm after getting a copy on my machine, I could open the page in my browser locally (although the images are not present). With a wget -E --save-headers Command on the URL I get this: HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:02:51 GMT Server: ATS/3.2.0 X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.10-1ubuntu3.15 X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff Content-language: en Vary: Accept-Encoding,Cookie X-Vary-Options: Accept-Encoding;list-contains=gzip,Cookie;string-contains=wikiaooToken;string- contains=wikiaooLoggedOut;string-contains=forceHTTPS;string-contains=wikiaoo_session;string- contains=wikiaooLanguageSelectorLanguage Cache-Control: s-maxage=18000, must-revalidate, max-age=0 Last-Modified: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:02:51 GMT Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Encoding: x-compress Age: 0 Via: http/1.1 ooo-wiki2-vm.apache.org (ApacheTrafficServer/3.2.0) Via: 1.1 wiki.openoffice.org Keep-Alive: timeout=5, max=100 Connection: Keep-Alive Transfer-Encoding: chunked !DOCTYPE html html lang=en dir=ltr class=client-nojs head [ ... etc ... ] It is unfortunate that lang=en is specified, but that should not matter for the handling of UTF-8. I suspect that this is a compression problem. Either the file is not being compressed, so decompression produces a mess, or there is some weirdness around the forcing of https. - Dennis -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Friday, December 5, 2014 08:49 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; ooofo...@free.fr Subject: Re: [Wiki] Corrupted page On Friday, December 5, 2014, FR web forum ooofo...@free.fr wrote: Please be more specific. What do you see as corrupted. Sorry for the lack of information I see this: http://hpics.li/970be1f With safari on ipad ios8 I see the same, but it works with IE on windows8 rgds jan i - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org javascript:; For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org javascript:; -- Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
French Documentation Pages
I was looking around to see whether there are other page corruption problems on French-language pages. This page http://www.openoffice.org/fr/Documentation/Calc/ Revealed two problems. 1. The page serves up as English, so the language pull-down in the upper right corner is incorrect. 2. The page serves up as Western European (ISO), when it is actually in UTF-8. When I correct that in my browser, the characters render properly. These are both consequences of what appear to be defaults in my browser and the lack of any details to the contrary in the page that is served up. I am not certain how to capture this. I could create an issue but the main problem has to do with needing to review the site page by page to see what is being served-up incorrectly, and how that comes about. With my today-acquired wget -E --save-headers superpowers, I can confirm this about the above URL: HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:18:23 GMT Server: Apache/2.4.7 (Ubuntu) Accept-Ranges: bytes Vary: Accept-Encoding Keep-Alive: timeout=30, max=100 Connection: Keep-Alive Transfer-Encoding: chunked Content-Type: text/html ## Note the lack of any character-encoding information. !DOCTYPE html html head [ ... lots of JavaScript but *no* meta information on character set or language ... ] /head body div id=bannera div id=languagesdiv Language: select id=selectlanguage onchange=javascript:location.href=location.protocol+'//'+location.host+'/'+this.value; [ ... nice list but the selection that is presented is based on the host and not the page ?! ] /select script [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [Wiki] Corrupted page
I looked around the French Language wiki documentation for Calc functions a little more and I could not find any other pages that served up as badly as the TEST.Z one. For example, here is the response for https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FR/Calc:_fonction_TEXTE: HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:33:33 GMT Server: ATS/3.2.0 X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.10-1ubuntu3.15 X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff Content-language: en Vary: Accept-Encoding,Cookie X-Vary-Options: Accept-Encoding;list-contains=gzip,Cookie;string-contains=wikiaooToken;string-contains=wikiaooLoggedOut;string-contains=forceHTTPS;string-contains=wikiaoo_session;string-contains=wikiaooLanguageSelectorLanguage Cache-Control: s-maxage=18000, must-revalidate, max-age=0 Last-Modified: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:33:33 GMT Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Age: 0 Via: http/1.1 ooo-wiki2-vm.apache.org (ApacheTrafficServer/3.2.0) Via: 1.1 wiki.openoffice.org Keep-Alive: timeout=5, max=100 Connection: Keep-Alive Transfer-Encoding: chunked !DOCTYPE html html lang=en dir=ltr class=client-nojs head meta charset=UTF-8 /titleFR/Documentation/Calc: fonction TEXTE - Apache OpenOffice Wiki/title meta name=generator content=MediaWiki 1.22.6 / [ ... ] Note the absence of the Content-Encoding header entry that comes from the problematic page, below. It would be great if Content-language were correct along with the html lang attribute, but that is not so serious. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Friday, December 5, 2014 10:17 To: 'dev@openoffice.apache.org' Subject: RE: [Wiki] Corrupted page I'm seeing it corrupted just now using Windows 8.1 and IE 11. About 2 hours ago, I saw it just fine. [ ... ] With a wget -E --save-headers Command on the URL I get this: HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:02:51 GMT Server: ATS/3.2.0 X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.10-1ubuntu3.15 X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff Content-language: en Vary: Accept-Encoding,Cookie X-Vary-Options: Accept-Encoding;list-contains=gzip,Cookie;string-contains=wikiaooToken;string- contains=wikiaooLoggedOut;string-contains=forceHTTPS;string-contains=wikiaoo_session;string- contains=wikiaooLanguageSelectorLanguage Cache-Control: s-maxage=18000, must-revalidate, max-age=0 Last-Modified: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 13:02:51 GMT Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Encoding: x-compress Age: 0 Via: http/1.1 ooo-wiki2-vm.apache.org (ApacheTrafficServer/3.2.0) Via: 1.1 wiki.openoffice.org Keep-Alive: timeout=5, max=100 Connection: Keep-Alive Transfer-Encoding: chunked !DOCTYPE html html lang=en dir=ltr class=client-nojs head [ ... etc ... ] It is unfortunate that lang=en is specified, but that should not matter for the handling of UTF-8. I suspect that this is a compression problem. Either the file is not being compressed, so decompression produces a mess, or there is some weirdness around the forcing of https. - Dennis [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Signing AOO 4.1.1 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter)
I don't know if this is helpful or not. I'm not in a position to check. Thinking out loud: There are two cases of signatures. 1. Digital signing of installable components, such as DLLs and such. This is also important but a second-order problem. 2. Digital signing of the installer binary (the .EXE). That or shipping a signed .MSI. This is more important. It has to do with raising the confidence in downloads and installs and is of immediate benefit. It *may* be the case that the installer binary .EXE already has room in the file for a signature and it is simply not being used. The properties on the binary .EXE are also not filled in for AOO 4.1.1 en-US. Those are the ones that show a File description, File version, Product name, Product version, Copyright, Language, etc. It might be worthwhile to see if the properties and signature can be injected in the .EXE already. And if not, it may be possible to rebuild the .EXE, since the bits are still around. They are what are extracted into a folder which is then used for running setup. If feasible, this strikes me as a perfectly worthwhile exercise for slip-streaming a signed binary of AOO 4.1.1 for Windows. As Andrea remarks, It would also be a right-sized teething exercise for our learning how to work through the signing process. I'm all for starting with the least that could possibly work, even though I have no expertise on this. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 15:08 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Budapest and thereafter. Marcus wrote: Am 12/08/2014 02:32 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti: We could actually do both, if you believe it makes sense: - signed 4.1.1 (next Windows binaries only) by end of December - 4.1.2 in January IMHO this doesn't make sense and would be just a waste of resources, when doing 2 releases in such a short time frame. But I would tend to do only the bigger release (4.1.2) - let's say in January/February. When ... Honestly, Infra would like (and they are right) that after asking for years for digital signing, we actually use it. We can't put many obstacles in front of it. So a long list of things that we must have ready before that won't work. Signing Windows binaries will have to happen, and users will benefit from it in terms of trust in OpenOffice. Assuming that more or less we can master the technology, distributing the 4.1.1 signed binaries is not a huge feat for us (it would need production of the new binaries and their upload to a new directory like windows-signed and defaulting to windows-signed in the JavaScript in the download page). It is far less than a release and at least it could show that on this (new for OpenOffice) topic we are ready. In case I wasn't clear (and this is my fault for not summarizing the Budapest talks correctly) signed binaries have high priority. One way is to make a 4.1.2 release and sign it, and this requires going through the whole process (no, it can't be a Windows-only release). Another way is to ship a signed version of the existing 4.1.1 binaries as a warm up for the moment when this will be integral part of the release process. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Signing AOO 4.1.1 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter)
Andrea, Although I consider this very important, I am so far back the learning curve on working with the actual bits that I don't think I can provide anything competent in a short time. If you think there is an useful way for me to move along the curve in time to be useful, I am open to it. One question, also for Jürgen and Jan. Is it possible to enter the signing process for just the last step -- using the 4.1.1 setup files, which are easily available, and making an installer file with appropriate file properties and a signature? (Or even sign the existing installer file, if it is in the proper format for inserting the information and signature.) That is, the .cab, .msi, and setup.exe would be completely unchanged. It is not the whole job, but it would make for an easy 4.1.1 slip-stream update and start solving one of the problems of being able to identify the origin of courtesy binaries that the project is willing to support. (There are loud reminders on other lists that courtesy binaries are not Apache capital-R Releases, only the sources are, so this would technically not involve a new AOO Project Release at all. There should be absolutely no difference other than the installer is authenticated and makes Windows happier in itself, without worrying about Windows certification at this stage.) It would still have to be project-managed in the sense that all of the measures to preserve binary authenticity and provide accompanying binary release management internal to AOO should be followed. Still thinking out loud, wanting to be helpful. - Dennis PS: Corinthia has to learn to do this anyhow, but that incubator has the advantage of not being under any time pressure and can provide signed binaries from the beginning, so teething and preserving the knowledge may be easier. -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 00:17 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Signing AOO 4.1.1 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter) Jürgen Schmidt wrote: We had a signing mechanism in place for a long time and the reason why we have currently no digital signing is the lack of a certificate where we as project (PMC) or as representative the release manager have enough control. I do have a certificate and access key to the signing service. Details in my OpenOffice and Infra report http://markmail.org/message/6ymi35tajswcfsps item 4. Of course, I'm more than happy if someone else is willing to help with this; maybe Jan's work of months ago can now be reused and we can sign with minimal effort. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Signing AOO 4.1.1 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter)
+1 (non-binding [;) on PMC approval of any slip-stream. I don't understand why full rebuilds are required. The only crucial file that needs signing is the .exe that is downloaded and extracts the actual setup files. All it does is extract a number of fixed files and then run the extracted setup.exe. If a signed version of that .exe can be created, using the existing setups delivered with the current 4.1.1 .exe files, there is nothing else to do. It has to be done once for each language, but that's it. No full rebuilds, no new dates on files. The extracted setups would be binary identical to each of the current ones for 4.1.1, so it is easy to verify that the signed .exe does not deliver anything but the already reviewed installs. That might be unworkable, but it is definitely worth seeing if it is possible rather than going through a full-up set of build processes. - Dennis PS: Rob's analysis is very useful to keep in mind as we look at other ways to increase confidence in the AOO binaries and the AOO site as preferable for those downloads. I think grabbing the low-hanging fruit and getting something simple through the process is also desirable, especially since we are starting from zero using the signing process. -Original Message- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 08:29 To: dev; Dennis Hamilton Subject: Re: Signing AOO 4.1.1 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter) On 9 December 2014 at 16:26, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: Andrea, [ ... ] (Or even sign the existing installer file, if it is in the proper format for inserting the information and signature.) That is, the .cab, .msi, and setup.exe would be completely unchanged. No we need to rebuild (and for every language), because the last step in the build process needs to be repeated, we cannot just patch the files. If we could move away from 1 install set pr language, the job would be about 30 times faster :-) AOO is special compared to most other projects, in that the majority of our users use the binary package. As a consequence, I recommend a PMC vote, even if its not strictly needed. [ ... ] It would still have to be project-managed in the sense that all of the measures to preserve binary authenticity and provide accompanying binary release management internal to AOO should be followed. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Java 32
JRE is Defective is an awful and unhelpful message in any language. There is no programmatic basis for claiming that as a fact, and the software certainly does not have a way of determining it. The requested remedy is pretty opaque to ordinary users too. I suggest that this be modified somehow. It appears that this message arises because a 32-bit Java Runtime Environment (JRE) is required for some functions. Somehow, there needs to be some sort of link or help that explains what functions matter and what to do to enable them. That's what users care about. Since the message is limited in length and must translate easily, it seems something like A 32-bit Java Runtime (JRE) is needed for some operations. See helpful URL. I assume the URL would not need to be translated, and browser sniffing could take care of language there. That does mean the openoffice.org site needs a place with short URL for dealing with this. Too much work? If someone holds my hand, I'm happy to help with that. I think user-sensitive Forum folk like Rory will be indispensable in vetting understandability and utility of the result. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 23:22 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Java 32 [ ... ] Here is the message as quoted on the en-Forum JRE is Defective No Java installation could be found Please check your installation [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Java 32
Great, Marcus and Kay! Yes, Java Runtime (JRE) is needed for some operations. See helpful URL. The http://www.openoffice.org/download/common/java.html page is a great start. 1. It needs to say Versions Of Apache OpenOffice do not include a JRE. (The case for OpenOffice.org 3.4 doesn't matter.) 2. The 32-bit versus 64-bit distinction needs to be covered. 3. There is some wordsmithing that would be useful before submitting the page to any translation. (The last-sentence use of appreciate is quaint. I would think the link to java.com above is fine, since it provides download links immediately. The last sentence can be removed.) Is it sufficient to hack directly on https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/download/common/java.html? - Dennis -Original Message- From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 14:49 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Java 32 Am 12/10/2014 11:08 PM, schrieb Kay Schenk: On 12/10/2014 08:52 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: [ ... ] Since the message is limited in length and must translate easily, it seems something like A 32-bit Java Runtime (JRE) is needed for some operations. See helpful URL. I've tracked down info needed to change this message. Do we want to use the following for the helpful URL -- http://www.openoffice.org/download/common/java.html looks good (however, I've not yet read the complete text). Is it possible to include a URL that is actually clickable? If not, the user has to write it down and then input it into the browser's URL field to get to the webpage. IMHO not really user-friendly. If we can get it copyable - like in the About dialogbox - then it's for sure better. Marcus I assume the URL would not need to be translated, and browser sniffing could take care of language there. That does mean the openoffice.org site needs a place with short URL for dealing with this. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Java 32
+1 to Andreas. Sounds like a plan. There seems to be some disagreement on what (3), the dialog message, should be. It is likely that should be agreed first, since (1) will depend on it. That there are only possible mismatches on x64 Windows/Mac operating systems (or any others that run both x86 and x64 binaries) needs to be clear. Not in the message. I don't see making the message even more complicated about lore that will be even more confusing to casual users. For (1), the java.html page, I think we can address the concern by Andreas Säger by keeping the java.html page simple and providing progressive disclosure of specific details on supplementary pages if necessary. That means more page-translation work, so I suggest that java.html be kept straightforward and as simple as possible (but no simpler, of course, and definitely accurate) first. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 00:49 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Java 32 [ ... ] My suggestion (can be executed as a team, not necessarily by one person): 1. Find a proper wording for http://www.openoffice.org/download/common/java.html 2. Create a link www.openoffice.org/java pointing at it 3. Find a short (short!) text for the dialog box, sending the people to www.openoffice.org/java for any details (including 32 and 64-bit systems); I don't know if links are supported, but the short URL at 2 should take care of it 4. Place #3 in form of a patch in Bugzilla and send the number here (and if the patch comes from someone who is not one of the usual code committers, even better) 5. At that point it will be easy for people who have their own build tree to check the patch before we get it in, so don't worry about this. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [INFRA] can''t access our buildbot config file
I was able to see it in my browser (IE11 on Windows 8.1) after logging in with my committer ID and password. That got me read access. I didn't try checking it out in SVN. -Original Message- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2014 11:11 To: OOo Apache Subject: [INFRA] can''t access our buildbot config file All AOO committers should have access to our buildbot config file -- https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/buildbot/aegis/buildmaster/master1/projects/openofficeorg.conf and I did until the svn issues recently. Could someone else confirm this problem before I report it? Thanks. -- - MzK There's a bit of magic in everything, and some loss to even things out. -- Lou Reed - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Signing AOO 4.1.1 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter)
It appears that running SignTool on an .exe is deceptively simple. I have some other tasks to complete before I can install a Microsoft SDK that has the tool. I will try SignTool over the weekend. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:r...@robweir.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 15:56 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; Dennis Hamilton Subject: Re: Signing AOO 4.1.1 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter) On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: [ ... ] I don't understand why full rebuilds are required. The only crucial file that needs signing is the .exe that is downloaded and extracts the actual setup files. All it does is extract a number of fixed files and then run the extracted setup.exe. [ ... ] Of course, nothing requires that we go for certification. I bet if we just signed the outermost installer it would be satisfy earlier versions of Windows, antivirus apps and browsers that are doing this kind of check.So it might be worth doing just this minimum initially. Regards, -Rob If a signed version of that .exe can be created, using the existing setups delivered with the current 4.1.1 .exe files, there is nothing else to do. It has to be done once for each language, but that's it. No full rebuilds, no new dates on files. The extracted setups would be binary identical to each of the current ones for 4.1.1, so it is easy to verify that the signed .exe does not deliver anything but the already reviewed installs. That might be unworkable, but it is definitely worth seeing if it is possible rather than going through a full-up set of build processes. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Staging 4.1.2 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter.)
Looking around for some other matters, I notice there is no 4.1.1 branch in the SVN. Is this intentional? - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 12:45 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Budapest and thereafter. On 08/12/2014 jan i wrote: So may I politely ask, what have changed, that we now believe this will all go away, and we can have it all solved in a short time ? Not much has changed indeed. I pushed to have buildbots running before the release, but indeed if buildbots are problematic and the same volunteers who built the previous releases can still commit to doing so for the next one, it is no major problem. Very honestly, I would like that we don't depend on individuals for project resources, but maybe it is easier for a developer to share an existing virtual machine (and possibly get it running at Apache) than to prepare a buildbot environment. do we really want to wait until this magically happens ? No, since it won't magically happen. So, what is the minimum we can do for a 4.1.2 release? I would set it at: - New/updated translations - New/updated dictionaries - Bugfixes (to be discussed) - Signed Windows binaries - Binaries for all other systems as usual I can volunteer for the first two items (coordinating translations and adding/updating dictionaries). But I'm actually missing some information maybe. Out of the following releases, which ones were built on individuals' machines for 4.1.1? All? Some? And are these built in a VM that we could consider moving to Apache hardware or not? 1) Windows 2) Linux 64 bit (RPM+DEB) 3) Linux 32 bit (RPM+DEB) 4) Mac Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Staging 4.1.2 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter.)
OK, here is why I was looking for this. Thanks for the links, Kay. The RAT scan linked to in the [VOTE] message for 4.1.1 lists only seven files for aoo401/main/writerperfect. Looking in the apache-openoffice-4.1.1-r1517669-src.zip, I see 33 files that could have comments and notices. Looking at aoo-4.1.1/writerperfect/source/filter/DocumentCollector.cxx, the first one I chose to examine, I see three Copyright notices and an LGPL license notice in the comments at the top of the file. The same file, and the others, appear at https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/AOO410/main/writerperfect/ as well as https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/writerperfect/ at revision 1645375. I'm no expert on RAT. I can't account for the peculiar situation. I think it would be good to have a stronger check for 4.1.2 though. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 15:20 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Staging 4.1.2 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter.) On 12/13/2014 01:37 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: Looking around for some other matters, I notice there is no 4.1.1 branch in the SVN. Is this intentional? yes...see the following mail threads http://markmail.org/message/qrjxespr3di7dxh7 http://markmail.org/message/cpqm4zysz4sd4ley [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Deflecting the Attack of the Clones
I have been watching the arrival of support requests for AOO knock-offs on Android and plain-old PCs with some dismay. Some of this damage is self-inflicted: The Apache OpenOffice source code compiles to binaries that describes themselves and support structures as offered by Apache OpenOffice. That and the permissive license allows cloners to do whatever they want without consequences or support burdens, while extracting support fees (and add-cancellation upgrades), and whatever benefits there are for installing malware/adware alongside. I ponder this dilemma from time to time and this is how I propose to produce open-source code under permissive licenses. Not that anything I produce will appeal to parasites as valuable to clone. It is the practice that intrigues me along with my interest in having ways to establish trustworthy producer-adopter relationships. Here's my thinking about how I would manage in the face of parasitic cloning where it is up to me. It would be more difficult for an Apache Top-Level Project, though not impossible. It does mean that convenience binaries are not identical to what can be produced using the source distribution alone, and the difference is apparent. This does not prevent counterfeiting of a supported binary distribution. It does allow counterfeits to be detected. It doesn't prevent distribution of unaltered binaries within a parasitic installer. It doesn't prevent redistributions for a fee. With regard to end-users, unaltered binaries are of-course supported. Other derivatives are not. Adopters of other derivatives will be treated gently in their searches for support. - Dennis PRESERVING DISTRIBUTION PROVENANCE AND AUTHENTICITY 1. The code will compile as a working/reference/developer binary. It will not provide signed binaries or anything that, shared as binaries, will provide identification as some sort of authenticated and supported end-user distribution. It will not come with any support notification or automatic updates, and it is meant for developers and testing, not end-user support of any kind. 2. The source tree will contain placeholder resources that are extracted and then used in a default build. To obtain other than a default build, the extractions of the placeholders can be replaced and the signing and time-stamping build-steps included in a construction. The versions of those resources for official distributions are not open-sourced and are introduced privately in a working copy, just as private keys are applied privately. This would be true for me, and for anyone else who wants to make some sort of official distribution of their own, whether the public source code is modified or not. 3. With regard to the source code is the release mantra, this is not a problem. Anyone can compile, use, and adapt the source code and produce their own binaries as much as they like. They just won't appear to be mine, unless someone intentionally does that. And it still won't be signed by me (unless there is a signing-key compromise, triggering a disaster-recovery plan). 4. Customizations of resources that are not shared include logos, icons, notices, update-check protocol data, etc. There will be identification of the source-code release that is used and appropriate inclusion of support details. There may have to be supplements to localization, internationalization and accessibility provisions, and that will take some work. There will be enough information in the source code and the documentation of the default resources so anyone can know what steps to take in providing their own customization. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Staging 4.1.2 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter.)
Correction: The RAT scan linked to in the [VOTE] message for 4.1.1 lists only seven files for aoo410/main/writerperfect. (not aoo401) -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 17:00 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: Staging 4.1.2 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter.) OK, here is why I was looking for this. Thanks for the links, Kay. The RAT scan linked to in the [VOTE] message for 4.1.1 lists only seven files for aoo401/main/writerperfect. Looking in the apache-openoffice-4.1.1-r1517669-src.zip, I see 33 files that could have comments and notices. Looking at aoo-4.1.1/writerperfect/source/filter/DocumentCollector.cxx, the first one I chose to examine, I see three Copyright notices and an LGPL license notice in the comments at the top of the file. The same file, and the others, appear at https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/AOO410/main/writerperfect/ as well as https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/writerperfect/ at revision 1645375. I'm no expert on RAT. I can't account for the peculiar situation. I think it would be good to have a stronger check for 4.1.2 though. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 15:20 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Staging 4.1.2 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter.) On 12/13/2014 01:37 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: Looking around for some other matters, I notice there is no 4.1.1 branch in the SVN. Is this intentional? yes...see the following mail threads http://markmail.org/message/qrjxespr3di7dxh7 http://markmail.org/message/cpqm4zysz4sd4ley [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Staging 4.1.2 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter.)
I agree. If the build doesn't depend on them being there in some manner, simple removal of the writerperfect directory from the trunk should be sufficient. If there is a config dependency for creating builds, that should be removed as well. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2014 14:20 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; Pedro Giffuni Subject: Re: Staging 4.1.2 (was RE: Budapest and thereafter.) On 14/12/2014 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: Looking at aoo-4.1.1/writerperfect/source/filter/DocumentCollector.cxx, the first one I chose to examine, I see three Copyright notices and an LGPL license notice in the comments at the top of the file. The same file, and the others, appear at https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branches/AOO410/main/writerperfect/ as well as https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/trunk/main/writerperfect/ at revision 1645375. ... I think it would be good to have a stronger check for 4.1.2 though. I'm CCing Pedro who told me something similar (possibly the very same issue) at ApacheCon last month. If I understand correctly, these files are unused for the build and should simply be removed. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Deflecting the Attack of the Clones
-- Replying to below -- From: Rob Weir [mailto:r...@robweir.com] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 06:26 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; Dennis Hamilton Subject: Re: Deflecting the Attack of the Clones [ ... ] My impression is that Firefox does something similar. I think I read someplace that their source code distribution lacks the Firefox branding. It is more of a white label product, functionally the same as Firefox, but without the branding. But still, I don't think that really solves the problems that we face. Correct be if I'm wrong, but we're not really seeing someone doing their own compile of AOO from source code and using that to spread malware, right? We're seeing people take our binaries directly and bundle that with installers that spread the malware, or put up websites that charge and then point to AOO's binaries directly. In the end, the real harm here is done to the users. So I wonder whether the best we can do is make it easy for them to raise complaints with those who can take action, e.g, payment processors associated with credit cards or telephone networks, or even consumer authorities. orcnote I agree that this does nothing about folks charging for a link to the AOO download or the more-tolerable convenience CD. Certainly cultivating consumer awareness is the most important action we can take, along with finding some way to deal with the fact that SEO is not our friend, particularly on SourceForge (and apparently amazon if they are still providing downloads). However, there are now apparent forks of AOO, such as AndrOpen Office (boldly dubbed AOO and which seems to confuse some folks even though it is described as a fork and as not associated with the project). So, establishing careful provenance (which signing will help) and encouraging users to be aware of it and of responsible sources go together. I also agree that assisting users in obtaining redress or at least Registering complaints is valuable. It is just more externality that the perpetrators are subjecting the project to, though. The advantage of a white box source release is that any counterfeit is clearly willful, as opposed to plausibly accidental/careless. I imagine that is not much deterrent to the determined. For some sort of stronger arrangement, it is probably necessary to get into various controlled app stores. Linux distributions apparently do their own builds for inclusion in their supported package libraries, so that might be in the plus column. /orcnote - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Deflecting the Attack of the Clones
I think the problem is that at least one purchaser of their ads-free option complained to users @oo.a.o and was convinced that it was ours to support and to fix the crashers he experienced. It might be good to consult with the trademarks folks about what constitutes confusion and how we would request others to avoid causing it. Consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOO. I don't know what contributed to the confusion for that user. I'm not in a position to install it on any device I have in order to see what the issues might be with the app itself and how it is presented. I'll ask the particular user what led him to users @oo.a.o. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 13:37 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Deflecting the Attack of the Clones Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: However, there are now apparent forks of AOO, such as AndrOpen Office (boldly dubbed AOO and which seems to confuse some folks even though it is described as a fork and as not associated with the project). We are in good relationship with the author. The current branding and wording of AndrOpen Office were approved by the OpenOffice PMC. If any changes are needed, feel free to suggest them. It is an unofficial port, but it is also as close as possible to OpenOffice. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Need help in the code jungle of starmath
For MathML in ODF 1.2 documents, a MathML root element must conform to [xml-names] and the root element must have a namespace declaration. Of course an embedded MathML element must also have a namespace binding as well. (This is in the section on Namespaces and the one that defines OpenDocument Documents.) Also, schema validity, not DTD validity, is required. THE TEST DOCUMENTS I notice that the usage on the web pages that demonstrate some of the tests, the pages are XHTML and the namespace is used on the math elements. In the .mml files themselves, there is no XML prolog at all in the ones I looked at. There is no DOCTYPE, there is no ?xml and there are no prefixes. I think if you add a DOCTYPE, you should still have an xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML; on the root element. But I think just adding the xmlns declaration should be sufficient for the tests to work. If for some reason, xmlns:math=http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML; appears to be required, that is probably because there is an old parser being used and it isn't actually doing namespace processing correctly. Is this helpful? - Dennis -Original Message- From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.hensc...@t-online.de] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 07:19 To: AOO dev Subject: Need help in the code jungle of starmath Hi all, I try to use the MathML testsuite http://www.w3.org/Math/testsuite/mml2-testsuite/. But those files do not open in Math and cannot be imported. I find, that all files fail, which do not have the namespace xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML; as attribute in the root element math. This error remains, if I force the type detection to accept those files for the MathML filter. If the namespace is missing, I get the error Root element unknown in the parser. From a standard view this namespace is not necessary. It is enough to have a doctype, and in case of doctype http://www.w3.org/Math/DTD/mathml1/mathml.dtd an xmlns attribute is not even known. So, does anyone know (1) Where is the part, which insists on the xmlns attribute? (2) Is there a way to deliver this information to the parser, when it is missing in the file? Kind regards Regina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Need help in the code jungle of starmath
-- Replying to -- From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.hensc...@t-online.de] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 14:04 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Need help in the code jungle of starmath Hi Dennis, Dennis E. Hamilton schrieb: For MathML in ODF 1.2 documents, a MathML root element must conform to [xml-names] and the root element must have a namespace declaration. Of course an embedded MathML element must also have a namespace binding as well. (This is in the section on Namespaces and the one that defines OpenDocument Documents.) I do not really understand you. Which parts do you refer exactly? Do you mean a namespace is required for valid 'MathML 2.0'? Was it required for 'MathML 1.0'? orcnote In the ODF 1.2 specification, the use of MathML within ODF documents, or as ODF documents, requires use of the namespace. This is in ODF 1.2 Part 1 section 1.5 Namespaces, Table 4, and section 2.2.1 OpenDocument Document subsection B4. This applies to MathML 2.0. That may also be how import of MathML is expected for StarMath too. I am speculating. /orcmid Also, schema validity, not DTD validity, is required. So I should not care about a DTD and put resolve MathML Names to unicode point on import on my ToDo list? orcnote I'm not clear what is the issue about MathML Names. If there is a character-set encoding issue, I think that can be handled in the ?xml prolog element for free-standing MathML XML documents. What non-Unicode are you encountering? /orcnote THE TEST DOCUMENTS I notice that the usage on the web pages that demonstrate some of the tests, the pages are XHTML and the namespace is used on the math elements. In the .mml files themselves, there is no XML prolog at all in the ones I looked at. There is no DOCTYPE, there is no ?xml and there are no prefixes. Yes, that is the problem of the files in testsite.zip. And I'm looking what to do to make them readable in AOO. orcnote In the versions embedded in the XHTML web pages of the tests, themselves, the namespace is supplied. The .mml basically carries implied recognition of MATHML among parties that recognize the file extension association and do not expect XML Names to be supported. This requires out-of-band agreement between interchanging parties and doesn't work for interchange of arbitrary XML Documents. I think the easiest way to use the tests is to go through and do a search-replace of math to math xmlns=... so the tests work where XML is expected. Then figuring out how to assume an implied namespace for math elements can be explored. /orcnote I think if you add a DOCTYPE, you should still have an xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML; on the root element. But I think just adding the xmlns declaration should be sufficient for the tests to work. The missing XML prolog is a small problem. That is an if-case in smdetect.hxx. For testing I have set the detection on true for all cases. You come across a missing xml prolog too, when you copy a formula from a web page, which uses MathJax. http://www.mathjax.org/demos/mathml-samples/ orcnote Apparently, there should still be a namespace declaration in the math element, especially if the default namespace is being used With no QNames. Although HTML5 does not recognize namespaces and MathML is built- in it would have been good for the xmlns=... to be used anyhow with MathJax, as described at http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/chapter2.html#interf.namespace. This would work on the clip-board too, always a good idea if the Format is specified to be XML. /orcmid I have tested all combinations of Prolog yes/no - doctype yes/no - namespace yes/no. Only the namespace makes the difference whether AOO is able to understand the files. I thought a general solution would come in handy and makes AOO more tolerant in using MathML fragments. orcnote It is interesting that MathML says there must always be a math element. I think for importing there could be tolerance. I think once in an ODF document, the namespace has to be explicit somehow. /orcnote If for some reason, xmlns:math=http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML; appears to be required, that is probably because there is an old parser being used and it isn't actually doing namespace processing correctly. That is the question. Is there actually a place I can correct the missing namespace problem? If it is not possible, I need not look for it. orcnote Sorry. I don't know where to look in the code to deal with this. I think anything produced by AOO should have the namespace handled correctly to ensure ODF 1.2 conformance. Being more forgiving on input where it is clearly MathML would also be nice. I'm no help about where that might be possible in the code. /orcnote Is this helpful? Your input is always welcome, especially
[DISCUSS] No Suitable JRE Message
Some OpenOffice operations use Java Runtime (JRE). A suitable JRE is unavailable. For details http://openoffice.org/java.html; I am proposing this to avoid the various cases that arise, not just the 32-bit on x64 Windows case. It would be great to look at how this wording works for non-native English speakers and also how easily it is translated for localization. Any simpler way to say this? - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 23:55 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Java 32 [ ... ] A Java Runtime (JRE) is needed for some operations using OpenOffice. If using 64 bit version of Windows, a 32 bit Java must be installed to work with OpenOffice. See helpful URL. I read through the text at the target URL: my thoughts are that it is over-complex and (specifically) didn't mention the problem of the bit-matching. Remember that our major User-base is of Windows Users, many of whom are using older machines running XP(32), Win 7(32). I may re-read the text at that URL later, but can't guarantee it - my central heating has died and I have to go investigate - I fear it is serious! [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSS] No Suitable JRE Message
-- replying to -- From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 14:36 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] No Suitable JRE Message Am 12/18/2014 03:01 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: Some OpenOffice operations use Java Runtime (JRE). A suitable JRE is unavailable. For details http://openoffice.org/java.html; I am proposing this to avoid the various cases that arise, not just the 32-bit on x64 Windows case. It would be great to look at how this wording works for non-native English speakers and also how easily it is translated for localization. Any simpler way to say this? what is the differnce to the discussion a few days ago? I cannot see it. There we wanted first to solve the insufficient information about found JREs (suggestion from Andreas Saeger) and then maybe any remaining help data in dialog boxes. orcnote Oh, sorry. This is the proposed text for the English dialog box about not finding an usable JRE. Once we are agreed on the dialog, the java.html page can be organized to support that message. Kay has made one change to the page but more is needed in line with comments made by Andreas, Andrea, and others. There is also the task of finding where the message text Is and also arranging its internationalization. I haven't been looking into that. Are you or someone else? /orcnote -Original Message- From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 23:55 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Java 32 [ ... ] A Java Runtime (JRE) is needed for some operations using OpenOffice. If using 64 bit version of Windows, a 32 bit Java must be installed to work with OpenOffice. See helpful URL. I read through the text at the target URL: my thoughts are that it is over-complex and (specifically) didn't mention the problem of the bit-matching. Remember that our major User-base is of Windows Users, many of whom are using older machines running XP(32), Win 7(32). I may re-read the text at that URL later, but can't guarantee it - my central heating has died and I have to go investigate - I fear it is serious! [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
FW: Git Security Vulnerability (CVE-2014-9390)
https://github.com/blog/1938-vulnerability-announced-update-your-git-clients http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/1853266 The GitHub announcement was just reported widely via the O'Reilly network. The vulnerability applies to GitHub for Windows and GitHub for Mac and the command-line git they provide. According to the gmane announcement, this extends to TortoiseGit and to the custom Git client introduced with Visual Studio 2013. Git provided under MSYS[2], CygWin, and other bundlings on Windows will also be vulnerable, especially via the use of short names such as git~1. In Apache Project Git repositories and their mirrors, it is useful to ensure that there are no ambiguous git* names, including with differing capitalizations, and also no other names that differ in case only. ~ is best avoided altogether in repository file names. (Case-insensitive collisions and some awkward characters (like :) already cause problems in checkout and update from ASF SVN to SVN working directories on Windows and perhaps Mac.) - Dennis PS: I have managed to update my GitHub for Windows and confirmed that, running the Git Shell on windows, the latest version seems to be running. That is not the case for TortoiseGit, MSYS2, and Visual Studio so far, but I can do all of my Git work using GitHub for Windows. I also updated the Corinthia .gitignore to ignore all files with ~ in their names. PPS: The CVE is not available at Mitre just yet, although there are other reports about it, http://www.bing.com/search?q=cve-2014-9390. -- Dennis E. Hamilton orc...@apache.org dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430 https://keybase.io/orcmid PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Deflecting the Attack of the Clones
-- in reply to -- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 13:37 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Deflecting the Attack of the Clones Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: However, there are now apparent forks of AOO, such as AndrOpen Office (boldly dubbed AOO and which seems to confuse some folks even though it is described as a fork and as not associated with the project). We are in good relationship with the author. The current branding and wording of AndrOpen Office were approved by the OpenOffice PMC. If any changes are needed, feel free to suggest them. It is an unofficial port, but it is also as close as possible to OpenOffice. orcnote My correspondent notices that there are appropriate disclaimers on the AndrOpen Office AOO web page. In a follow-up sent to me, I am told that the installed software identifies itself as Apache OpenOffice and all of the branding of Apache OpenOffice is present. I think it is important that a fork *not* do that, and that such identifications, including any links to support addresses and for pinging updates be corrected. (I don't have an answer for the on-line help or identification of AndrOpen-specific topics on the OpenOffice Forums.) /orcnote Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: [DISCUSS] No Suitable JRE Message
Thanks for the comments so far on this thread. I want to make one wording change, to using Some OpenOffice operations use Java Runtime (JRE). A suitable JRE is not installed. For details http://openoffice.org/java.html; The statement unavailable is too broad. All that is known is one is not installed on the configuration where the message is produced. - Dennis PS: Has anyone found where the resource is in the code base? Maybe the Pootle folks know? -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 18:02 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: [DISCUSS] No Suitable JRE Message Some OpenOffice operations use Java Runtime (JRE). A suitable JRE is unavailable. For details http://openoffice.org/java.html; I am proposing this to avoid the various cases that arise, not just the 32-bit on x64 Windows case. It would be great to look at how this wording works for non-native English speakers and also how easily it is translated for localization. Any simpler way to say this? - Dennis -Original Message- From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 23:55 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Java 32 [ ... ] A Java Runtime (JRE) is needed for some operations using OpenOffice. If using 64 bit version of Windows, a 32 bit Java must be installed to work with OpenOffice. See helpful URL. I read through the text at the target URL: my thoughts are that it is over-complex and (specifically) didn't mention the problem of the bit-matching. Remember that our major User-base is of Windows Users, many of whom are using older machines running XP(32), Win 7(32). I may re-read the text at that URL later, but can't guarantee it - my central heating has died and I have to go investigate - I fear it is serious! [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Java 32
-- in reply to -- From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 15:32 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Java 32 Am 12/21/2014 11:06 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti: [ ... ] 2. Create a link www.openoffice.org/java pointing at it when thinking a bit, I would favor to completely move the file to the root of w.oo.o As it is the explaining text how OpenOffice and Java are working together and therefore it has nothing to do with the download - as it was in former days as the JRE was included - it's better suited there than in the download area. What do others think? orcnote I think the reason for redirecting from the top level was simply to have something still at the original location for those who might be linked to it for some reason. It doesn't matter which location has the actual file, versus which one redirects. I am assuming that we can do the job with a single text. So I see no problem with where it is kept. One consideration might be the maintenance of the different-language versions and how browsers are routed to the correct one. I don't have any sense of what is involved for that. Marcus, would localization and browser branching on language be a factor in preference for the location of the file? /orcnote [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Java 32
Marcus,
Thank you for reminding me about this message. I have used your clues to dig
into the code farther. Remarks in-line below.
I am tired digging through the code for now.
-- in reply to --
From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 14:49
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Java 32
Am 12/10/2014 08:22 AM, schrieb Rory O'Farrell:
Here is the message as quoted on the en-Forum
JRE is Defective
No Java installation could be found
Please check your installation
thanks for your help.
I think I've found the locations in the code and it seems to be a
combined text from 2 sources:
http://opengrok.adfinis-sygroup.org/source/xref/aoo-trunk/main/svtools/source/java/javaerror.src
Line 86
orcnote
That code defines 5 dialog boxes, all about Java situations.
The five STR_... definitions are for the titles on those
dialog boxes.
Messages with those dialogs are produced by the file
Main/svtools/source/java/javainteractionhandler.cxx in method
JavaInteractionHandler::handle. This function noses around
And then produces exactly one of those 5 dialogs, without
Any apparent modification of the messages.
If that analysis holds, it is easy to adjust the five
messages. Here are the exceptions that lead to
each one, with the default title on the dialog box and
the default message in the box.
com::sun::star::Java::JavaNotFoundException
Title: JRE required
%PRODUCTNAME requires a Java runtime environment (JRE)
to perform this task. Please install a JRE and
restart %PRODUCTNAME.
[This is the only one to customize, I think.]
com::sun::star::Java::InvalidJavaSettingsException
Title: Select JRE
%The %PRODUCTNAME configuration has been changed.
Under Tools - Options - %PRODUCTNAME - Java, select
the Java runtime environment you want to have used
by %PRODUCTNAME.
com::sun::star::java::JavaDisabledException
Title: Enable JRE
%PRODUCTNAME requires a Java runtime environment (JRE)
to perform this task. However, use of a JRE has been
disabled. Do you want to enable the use of a JRE now?
[Responses are Yes, No, Cancel]
com::sun::star::java::JavaVMCreationFailureException
Title: JRE is Defective
%PRODUCTNAME requies a Java runtime environment (JRE)
to perform this task. The selected JRE is defective.
Please select another version or install a new JRE
and select it under Tools - Options - %PRODUCTNAME
- Java.
com::sun::star::java::RestartRequiredException
Title: Restart Required
For the selected Java runtime environment to work
properly, %PRODUCTNAME must be restarted. Please
restart %PRODUCTNAME now.
/orcmid
and
http://opengrok.adfinis-sygroup.org/source/xref/aoo-trunk/main/connectivity/source/resource/conn_shared_res.src
Line 535
orcnote
The definition in conn_shared_res.src is a definition of the
string resource with ID of STR_NO_JAVA and initial value
{ Text [ en-US ] = No Java installation could be found. \
Please check your installation.
[Line break is my addition above to keep the lines short.]
This line is internationalized in a ton of languages
elsewhere. However, in code in trunk/main, this string
resource is only used in the following ways:
main/connectivity/source/drivers/jdbc/JConnection.cxx:
throwGenericSQLException(STR_NO_JAVA,*this);
main/connectivity/source/drivers/jdbc/JConnection.cxx:
throwGenericSQLException(STR_NO_JAVA,*this);
main/connectivity/source/inc/resource/common_res.hrc:
#define STR_NO_JAVA ( STR_COMMON_BASE + 22 )
main/connectivity/source/resource/conn_shared_res.src:
String STR_NO_JAVA (setting the default message)
The use in JConnection.cxx is on failure to get a JVM
Connected for setting up a Java SQL Connection.
There are numerous usages of the function
throwGenericSQLException( ). When the final catch
happens and a dialog comes up, the message is composed
by combining messages from the cascade of exceptions
that may be involved. That takes more examination to
find out where any other messages, if any, come from
in this case. This seems to be handled in
main/connectivity/source/commontools/dbexception.cxx.
I don't think there is any cascading in this case,
But more analysis is required. I can see modifying
the STR_NO_JAVA message text depending on how that
turns out.
/orcnote
[ ... ]
If you have a translation, the fastest way (it's in OpenGrok too, but
in
huge files) is probably to search for it in Pootle:
https://translate.apache.org/projects/aoo40/
and find the English original, then do the above.
Fixing the message should be quite easy too, but open an issue for it
and report the number here if you have doubts.
OK, let's see.
Marcus
RE: Java 32
+1 !! -- in reply to -- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 00:12 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Java 32 On 22/12/2014 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: I am assuming that we can do the job with a single text. So I see no problem with where it is kept. One consideration might be the maintenance of the different-language versions and how browsers are routed to the correct one. The page could be included in the set of standard pages (the xx pages, see http://openoffice.apache.org/website-native.html and then each translation team can decide whether to use the English one or their translated one. orcnote Great! That's wonderful. I must remember to do that sort of thing on other sites. - Dennis PS: I wanted to provoke the Java messages and I figured the AOO 4.1.1 I have on the Windows 10 Technical Preview would work for that. Except Java SE Development Kit 7 Update 55 is already installed! I had no recollection of doing such a thing. It turns out it came with the Visual Studio 2015 Technical Preview (along with Google's Android SDK Tools) and a Git version 1.9.0 that needs to get the security update. (The copy in GitHub for Windows is current.) /orcnote - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Remove CVS revision/date from contributing.html and faq.html
-- in reply to -- From: Tae Wong [mailto:seotaewon...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 09:08 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Remove CVS revision/date from contributing.html and faq.html We need to remove the CVS stuff from the following files in ooo-site/trunk/content. contributing.html faq.html [ ... ] orcnote Done. May not show up immediately. I not a more interesting wrinkle at ooo-site/trunk/content/contributing/index.html where there is an HTML comment with a license, copyright notice, and information mentioning CVS history and providing links that are now out-of-date. At least that last part could be corrected. /orcnote - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Java 32
-- in reply to -- From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 09:55 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Java 32 Am 12/22/2014 05:13 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton: +1 !! Sounds like a good solution in general. But I don't know how to integrate a variable URL into the error message for the dialogbox. It must be something like the follwong: http://www.openoffice.org/; + $ISO_CODE + java.html Another thing we need a core developer for. ;-) So, adding a link that points to w.oo.o/d/c/java.html seems to be the faster solution. Marcus orcnote Two cases come to mind: 1. One way would be for the default (no language code in the URL) case would be to add a script at the web page to redirect to different pages based on any browser language-preference setting. That way, the web pages don't have to be internationalized in step with the different language builds. 2. Another way would be to have the URL internationalized at the same time as the message that the URL is in. Then, where there is no custom page at that location, there could be a redirect to the English page or an obvious second choice. I favor (1) because it doesn't force the same language as on the product. I suppose that for either (1-2), it would be good for the pages to have sidebars that indicate the other available-language pages having translations of the information. How do users who prefer non-English pages prefer this to work? Are there preferences (or even requirements) for use in multi- lingual countries such as Canada, Belgium, and Switzerland? /orcnote - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Java 32
+1 Looks like a workable case, especially if translators know what to do. -- and reply to --- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 13:41 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Java 32 [ ... ] in the ENGLISH string you write the link as http://www.openoffice.org/java.html orcnote Since http://openoffice.org resolves to http://www.openoffice.org anyhow, I thought it useful to recommend the shorter URL to users. /orcnote Then the Italian translators, for example, in the Italian translation in Pootle (not in the code) use http://www.openoffice.org/it/java.html but there is no need for anything special, we do it in several places already, especially the README. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Remove CVS revision/date from contributing.html and faq.html
-- in reply to -- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 13:15 To: dev Subject: Re: Remove CVS revision/date from contributing.html and faq.html [ ... ] The solution is pretty simple, make a change and commit it !. We dont want to change facts of life...if that file has not been changed for that amazing period of time so be it. orcnote The OpenOffice.org project stopped using CVS well before the contribution to Apache. So for any subsequent changes, the date would have simply been left there. There is a gap between that time and when the files were incorporated into the Apache SVN that cannot be accounted for. The current timestamps on those files were certainly more and my removal of them changed the history for certain [;). /orcnote rgds jan i. louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Deflecting the Attack of the Clones
[Not cross-posting to private@.] -- replying to -- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 10:20 To: OOo Apache Cc: dennis.hamil...@acm.org; privateAOO Subject: Re: Deflecting the Attack of the Clones On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 10:17 AM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On Sunday, December 21, 2014, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: -- in reply to -- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org javascript:;] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 13:37 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org javascript:; Subject: Re: Deflecting the Attack of the Clones [ ... ] We are in good relationship with the author. The current branding and wording of AndrOpen Office were approved by the OpenOffice PMC. If any changes are needed, feel free to suggest them. It is an unofficial port, but it is also as close as possible to OpenOffice. orcnote My correspondent notices that there are appropriate disclaimers on the AndrOpen Office AOO web page. In a follow-up sent to me, I am told that the installed software identifies itself as Apache OpenOffice and all of the branding of Apache OpenOffice is present. I think it is important that a fork *not* do that, and that such identifications, including any links to support addresses and for pinging updates be corrected. (I don't have an answer for the on-line help or identification of AndrOpen-specific topics on the OpenOffice Forums.) /orcnote Currently we have AndrOffice listed as a port -- http://www.openoffice.org/porting/ What this means to me is the 3rd party MUST identify itself as Apache OpenOffice. This is different than a fork. So, they SHOULD NOT re-brand. This goes against our trademark policy. See our distribution page -- http://www.openoffice.org/distribution/ But...they should identify that their product is Apache OpenOffice. [ ... ] orcmid This page, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andropenoffice specifically identifies the product as a *fork* of *Apache OpenOffice* and it disavows any association with Apache OpenOffice or LibreOffice projects. It claims to be the world's first *port* of *OpenOffice*. The same confusion arises here: https://sites.google.com/site/andropenoffice/home. There is a separate source code for a few parts, not under ALv2 (MPL or LGPL), apparently for some externals. There is a link for a blog. Although Google Play lists andreopenoffice.com in all of its material, http://andropenoffice.com doesn't serve up anything at the moment. Here is a typical example of confusion about this product, https://www.marshut.net/pyzxp/aoo-for-android-not-worth-the-download.html. Notice Apache's Open Office for Android. And folks speak of AOO for Android as if it is the AOO known to us. I think the distinction between a port and a fork is lost here and too fine hair-splitting to be useful. If the Apache OpenOffice project is willing to handle support requests for such a product, so be it. Enjoy the reputation. /orcmid - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Remove CVS revision/date from contributing.html and faq.html
I seem to have forgotten the magical incantations required to move updates to the ooo-site SVN tree through staging. Please advise me! - Dennis -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 13:57 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: RE: Remove CVS revision/date from contributing.html and faq.html -- in reply to -- From: Tae Wong [mailto:seotaewon...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 09:08 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Remove CVS revision/date from contributing.html and faq.html We need to remove the CVS stuff from the following files in ooo-site/trunk/content. contributing.html faq.html [ ... ] orcnote Done. May not show up immediately. I not a more interesting wrinkle at ooo-site/trunk/content/contributing/index.html where there is an HTML comment with a license, copyright notice, and information mentioning CVS history and providing links that are now out-of-date. At least that last part could be corrected. /orcnote - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Remove CVS revision/date from contributing.html and faq.html
Kay and Andrea, Thank you both. Now that my immediate needs are satisfied, is there documentation that I should have found somewhere? - Dennis -Original Message- From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 09:32 To: OOo Apache Subject: Re: Remove CVS revision/date from contributing.html and faq.html On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote: [ ... ] 1) Have the bookmarklet ready: http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html 2) Open the page you wish to see updated (well, to make it simpler, use http://www.openoffice.org directly). 3) Click on the bookmarklet. 4) In the CMS page that will open, click on Update this directory and update the resource. 5) Publish. It is normal that, due to caching, you see the updates online after 5 minutes or so. No matter what you think you are doing, publishing will always publish the whole site (i.e., your changes but also any other staged changes). Regards, Andrea. Another way you can use. Go to: https://cms.apache.org/ You'll be asked for your committer credentials. Scroll down to ooo-site and you can use -- Publish ooo-site https://cms.apache.org/ooo-site/publish Happy publishing... :) [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Explaining Java (was RE: Java 32)
I finished checking on the Java-specific messages and the six messages only have a single place where each is produced. It appears that a single (default en) page could provide the necessary information for reference from any messages in the installed binaries. Andrea suggests The page could be included in the set of standard pages (the xx pages, see http://openoffice.apache.org/website-native.html and then each translation team can decide whether to use the English one or their translated one. A. Is this a potential way to do it? 1. Create an ooo-site/trunk/content/xx/java/ directory. 2. Create leftnav.mdtext and index.mdtext files there. 3. The content/xx/java/index.mdtext would become the English Language version that We adopt for the target. If further breakout is required, it can be handled in that directory at a later time. B. Having done that, and having the message be agreeable, internationalization can commence. C. At an appropriate time, the content/java/ directory is created and it is arranged that this and content/xx/java/ are synchronized. (I have no idea what order this has to be in and which is the master.) D. The current content/download/common/java.html can be redirected to content/java/ Or E. The adjusted default messages that link to the site will link to http://openoffice.org/java and be in the build in time to test (4.1.2?) developer builds with the new messages and the new site pages. How am I doing? -Original Message- From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 00:12 To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: Java 32 On 22/12/2014 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: I am assuming that we can do the job with a single text. So I see no problem with where it is kept. One consideration might be the maintenance of the different-language versions and how browsers are routed to the correct one. The page could be included in the set of standard pages (the xx pages, see http://openoffice.apache.org/website-native.html and then each translation team can decide whether to use the English one or their translated one. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: Digital signing release for windows.
-- replying to -- From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2014 07:51 To: dev Subject: Digital signing release for windows. [ ... ] My suggestion is simple, lets rerun AOO 4.1 for windows, sign it digitally, and then release it as a patch version. I am happy to help, especially with the signing, but to help I need access to the certificate given to the PMC, and somebody who can make a release windows build. orcmid The official key is not needed in order to confirm a successful signing. Demonstrating a successful signing with any verifiable key is good enough to establish that the end-to-end procedure works. Then take the same originals back through the ASF signing process. A shortcut, which I am puzzling about is to not even do a new build but use the artifacts that are already in the Apache 4.1.1 distribution. (It does mean the cab may have to be opened, and I am not certain how that works for signing). This has the advantage of preserving the provenance of the distribution, because apart from signing the artifacts are identical. It might be too difficult to interrupt the process to just use the end-stage that puts together the (now-signed) cab contents and the installer package. In that case, it might be good enough to experiment with on a single language but not for a new binary release. But if we are certain there is a working process but new builds are needed, waiting for 4.1.1 seems like a good idea. One can then verify the process using a developer build before going to rc01. Also, I think it is still necessary to see what the problem was with having a signed installer (actually, a setup self-extractor the way AOO does it) that creates a setup directory of unsigned artifacts. The Windows 8[.1] Problem seems odd. If it doesn't complain when the 4.1.1 extraction is done with an unsigned installer, I can't quite get the problem. It may be that the way I do installs avoids that problem and that might be useful to understand. (I don't let the installer crap on my desktop, and I have it use a share on a file server instead, and setup runs from there just fine on 8.1 and Windows 10 Technical Preview.) /orcmid Steps are simple: 1) make a full build, pick all DLL, JAR and EXE from the object tree 2) Sign them, or let me help with that 3) Overwrite the object tree with the signed artifacts 4) run build but on postprocess (generate new setup package) 5) Sign the installer or let me help with that 6) Upload and start vote 7) Upload to dist and be happy. [ ... ] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
