Re: Video of VCR

2014-03-17 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, March 17, 2014 2:18:58 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Mar 2014, at 17:50, Craig Weinberg wrote: I'm mirroring back to you what my impression is of what you say to me. I say it is obvious that machines are impersonal, cold, mechanical, and that it is obvious

Re: Video of VCR

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 3:41:30 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Mar 2014, at 05:17, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 15, 2014 7:00:48 PM UTC-4, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Craig, Hmmm, let me see. If I just take my eye out of its socket and turn it around then I guess

Re: Video of VCR

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
in that awareness. Craig Edgar On Sunday, March 16, 2014 12:17:47 AM UTC-4, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 15, 2014 7:00:48 PM UTC-4, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Craig, Hmmm, let me see. If I just take my eye out of its socket and turn it around then I guess by your theory I'd have self

Re: Video of VCR

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 3:40:49 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 15 Mar 2014, at 23:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.jesseengland.net/index.php?/project/vide-uhhh/ Have a look at this quick video (or get the idea from this_) Since the VCR can get video feedback of itself

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 1:02:08 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On 14 March 2014 13:12, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH2QXQu-HGE A brief, handy rebuttal to materialistic views of consciousness. I would go further, and say

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 10:02:04 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Monday, March 17, 2014, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Sunday, March 16, 2014 1:02:08 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On 14 March 2014 13:12, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: http

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 11:05:45 AM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Friday, March 14, 2014 5:11:56 AM UTC-4, Kim Jones wrote: On 14 Mar 2014, at 1:12 pm, Craig Weinberg whats

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 11:38:41 AM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Sunday, March 16, 2014 11:05:45 AM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Craig

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 12:08:00 PM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Sunday, March 16, 2014 11:38:41 AM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: If there is nothing other than sensing

Re: Video of VCR

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 12:05:50 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Mar 2014, at 13:52, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, March 16, 2014 3:41:30 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Mar 2014, at 05:17, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 15, 2014 7:00:48 PM UTC-4, Edgar L

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 3:26:46 PM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Sunday, March 16, 2014 12:08:00 PM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Craig

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 4:38:42 PM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Sunday, March 16, 2014 3:26:46 PM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: At this point my impression

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-16 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 16, 2014 6:21:18 PM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Monday, March 17, 2014, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Sunday, March 16, 2014 10:02:04 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On Monday, March 17, 2014, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, March 14, 2014 5:11:56 AM UTC-4, Kim Jones wrote: On 14 Mar 2014, at 1:12 pm, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Information must be made evident through sensory participation, or it is nothing at all. Craig, you have just explained to me the basis of my

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, March 14, 2014 6:23:13 PM UTC-4, Liz R wrote: I'm not sure I'm convinced by the video. Why can't the brain think it's about something ? Because it doesn't need to. A coffee filter has an effect of coffee, but that doesn't mean that the filter intends to 'make coffee' or is

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, March 14, 2014 9:50:17 AM UTC-4, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, March 14, 2014 2:12:15 AM UTC, Craig Weinberg wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH2QXQu-HGE A brief, handy rebuttal to materialistic views of consciousness. I would go further, and say that information

Video of VCR

2014-03-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
https://31.media.tumblr.com/935c9f6ad77f94164442956d8929da19/tumblr_mncj8t2OCc1qz63ydo10_250.gif http://www.jesseengland.net/index.php?/project/vide-uhhh/ Have a look at this quick video (or get the idea from this_) Since the VCR can get video feedback of itself, is there any computational

Re: Quick video about materialism

2014-03-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, March 15, 2014 8:15:01 PM UTC-4, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:08:15 PM UTC, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 14, 2014 9:50:17 AM UTC-4, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, March 14, 2014 2:12:15 AM UTC, Craig Weinberg wrote: http

Re: Video of VCR

2014-03-15 Thread Craig Weinberg
in the mirror doesn't have self-awareness? Edgar On Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:09:27 PM UTC-4, Craig Weinberg wrote: https://31.media.tumblr.com/935c9f6ad77f94164442956d8929da19/tumblr_mncj8t2OCc1qz63ydo10_250.gif http://www.jesseengland.net/index.php?/project/vide-uhhh/ Have a look

Quick video about materialism

2014-03-13 Thread Craig Weinberg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH2QXQu-HGE A brief, handy rebuttal to materialistic views of consciousness. I would go further, and say that information, even though it is immaterial in its conception, is still derived from the principles of object interaction. Even when forms and functions

Re: truth of experience

2014-03-11 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, March 11, 2014 12:10:31 PM UTC-4, Terren Suydam wrote: Hi Bruno, Sure, consciousness here-and-now is undoubtable. But the p refers to the contents of consciousness, which is not undoubtable in many cases. I am in pain cannot be doubted when one is feeling it, but other felt

Re: Vehiculus automobilius

2014-03-10 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, March 10, 2014 5:48:42 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: On 7 March 2014 15:46, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: If the doctor became more ambitious, and decided to replace a species with a simulation, we have a ready example of what it might be like. Cars have

Re: Vehiculus automobilius

2014-03-07 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, March 7, 2014 3:06:54 AM UTC-5, cdemorsella wrote: *From:* everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript: [mailto: everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:] *On Behalf Of *Craig Weinberg *Sent:* Thursday, March 06, 2014 8:46 PM *To:* everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript

Re: Vehiculus automobilius

2014-03-07 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, March 7, 2014 7:14:15 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: Hi Craig, On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 5:46 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: If the doctor became more ambitious, and decided to replace a species with a simulation, we have a ready example of what

Re: Why an empty space within which events occur does NOT exist.

2014-03-07 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, March 7, 2014 7:21:15 AM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: All, An empty space within which events occur does not exist. There is no universal fixed pre-existing empty space common to all events and observers. I agree. Why? Because we cannot establish its existence by any

Re: Why an empty space within which events occur does NOT exist.

2014-03-07 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, March 7, 2014 3:52:33 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 8 March 2014 01:21, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net javascript:wrote: All, An empty space within which events occur does not exist. There is no universal fixed pre-existing empty space common to all events and observers. Why?

Re: Why an empty space within which events occur does NOT exist.

2014-03-07 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, March 7, 2014 5:02:51 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 8 March 2014 10:29, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: On Friday, March 7, 2014 3:52:33 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 8 March 2014 01:21, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net wrote: All, An empty space within which

Vehiculus automobilius

2014-03-06 Thread Craig Weinberg
If the doctor became more ambitious, and decided to replace a species with a simulation, we have a ready example of what it might be like. Cars have replaced the functionality of horses in human society. They reproduce in a different, more centralized way, but otherwise they move around like

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-03-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 2:20:01 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 04 Mar 2014, at 19:14, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:27:58 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Mar 2014, at 21:17, Craig Weinberg wrote: Why don't we see such a (meta) link

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-03-04 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:27:58 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Mar 2014, at 21:17, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, March 3, 2014 1:16:49 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Mar 2014, at 17:42, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, March 2, 2014 3:50:07 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-03-04 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 1:05:57 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: Edgar, In this list we are open minded and basically agnostic, we don't a priori assume god, matter, universe, numbers, or whatever, and then try theories by making clear the assumptions. The a priori assumption is that

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-03-03 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, March 3, 2014 1:16:49 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Mar 2014, at 17:42, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, March 2, 2014 3:50:07 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2014, at 12:24, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 1, 2014 1:52:12 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 2, 2014 3:46:07 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2014, at 12:08, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 1, 2014 3:12:49 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2014, at 02:36, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, February 28, 2014 5:32:48 PM

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 2, 2014 3:50:07 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2014, at 12:24, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 1, 2014 1:52:12 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2014, at 03:22, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, February 27, 2014 8:03:15 PM UTC-5, Liz R

Re: consciousness questions bruno or anyone

2014-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 2, 2014 11:34:33 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: ptruth Bpbeliefs Bp pknowledge Bp p observations Bp p p sensations I would invert this of course. We do not know that the universe begins with 'truth'. Truth is a belief about what a sensation

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 2, 2014 11:54:21 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Mar 2014, at 17:10, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, March 2, 2014 3:46:07 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2014, at 12:08, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, March 1, 2014 3:12:49 AM

Re: consciousness questions bruno or anyone

2014-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 2, 2014 3:54:25 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/2/2014 8:34 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 02 Mar 2014, at 13:36, ghi...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: So, why do we get tired, and why is being tired like the way that it is? If its exhaustion, maybe up a couple of

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 2, 2014 5:34:50 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 3 March 2014 07:53, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Sometimes you have to set logic aside to come to your senses. Why do I get a McCoy - Spock vibe here? Fascinating suggestion, Doctor, but completely

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, March 2, 2014 6:47:51 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 3 March 2014 12:21, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: On Sunday, March 2, 2014 5:34:50 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 3 March 2014 07:53, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: Sometimes you have to set logic

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, February 28, 2014 9:48:48 PM UTC-5, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 2:36 AM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Friday, February 28, 2014 5:32:48 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: If it's all math, then where does math come from

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, February 28, 2014 10:27:46 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 1 March 2014 14:36, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: On Friday, February 28, 2014 5:32:48 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: If it's all math, then where does math come from? Strange to say, elementary maths just

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, March 1, 2014 3:12:49 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2014, at 02:36, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, February 28, 2014 5:32:48 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: If it's all math, then where does math come from? Strange to say, elementary maths just appears to be a fact

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, March 1, 2014 1:46:44 AM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 1 March 2014 19:04, meekerdb meek...@verizon.net javascript: wrote: On 2/28/2014 9:22 PM, LizR wrote: Nevertheless, it does seem to be. That is, 17 is a prime number regardless of whether anyone knows it is, or even knows

Re: Is information physical?

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, February 28, 2014 9:18:29 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:51:00AM -0500, spudb...@aol.com javascript:wrote: Ok, Thanks. We're back to the Observer again, where all things are decided at the quantum. From here on the questions tumble forth as a

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, March 1, 2014 1:52:12 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2014, at 03:22, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, February 27, 2014 8:03:15 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 28 February 2014 03:02, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: In other words, why, in a functionalist

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, March 1, 2014 1:57:45 AM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 28 February 2014 15:22, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Thursday, February 27, 2014 8:03:15 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 28 February 2014 03:02, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: In other words

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, February 28, 2014 3:31:25 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On Friday, February 28, 2014, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Thursday, February 27, 2014 7:54:53 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On 28 February 2014 01:05, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, March 1, 2014 8:00:54 AM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Bruno, This is incorrect. We know truth by its consistency across scope. How do we know consistency though? Isn't the ability to detect and interpret consistency (through sense and sense-making) more primitive than the

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, March 1, 2014 7:42:13 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On Saturday, March 1, 2014, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Saturday, March 1, 2014 1:57:45 AM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 28 February 2014 15:22, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, March 1, 2014 7:48:42 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On Saturday, March 1, 2014, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Friday, February 28, 2014 3:31:25 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On Friday, February 28, 2014, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-03-01 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, March 1, 2014 7:56:15 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: Excuse my ignorance, but what is this functionalism that is supposedly disproved by AHS? Functionalism, as I see it, is the philosophy that consciousness is purely a byproduct of specific functions, either physical or mathematical

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-02-28 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, February 28, 2014 8:46:47 AM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Chris, For a computational universe to even exist it must be consistently logico-mathematical. If it weren't the inconsistencies would cause it to tear itself apart and thus it couldn't exist. Unless consistency

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-02-28 Thread Craig Weinberg
anthropomorphic than mechanemorphic, it has nothing to do with human experience in particular. It is 'reality' which is anthropomorphized - I submit that the foundation of the universe transcends realism. Thanks, Craig Best, Edgar On Friday, February 28, 2014 9:29:14 AM UTC-5, Craig

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-02-28 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, February 28, 2014 8:29:52 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 27 February 2014 16:43, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Thursday, February 27, 2014 9:47:33 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 27 February 2014 14:02, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-28 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, February 27, 2014 7:30:22 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 28 February 2014 12:36, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Identity isn't self contained in MSR. All identity is leased within some perspective. The more common the perspective, the longer the lease

Re: Is information physical?

2014-02-28 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, February 28, 2014 5:04:29 PM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: John, I agree that the substrate that information manifests in is NOT physical, it is abstract in the sense of no physicality. But the information that constitutes the universe is REAL, so the substrate it exists within

Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?

2014-02-28 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, February 28, 2014 5:32:48 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: If it's all math, then where does math come from? Strange to say, elementary maths just appears to be a fact. That is, it is a fact that 1+1=2. These shapes appear to be letters and words also, but they aren't. All it takes is

Re: Is information physical?

2014-02-28 Thread Craig Weinberg
participation. R-Math is a silhouette of that which we mistake for the essence. Math is not the essence of consciousness or presence, it is the essence of distance and absence. Craig Edgar On Friday, February 28, 2014 5:34:10 PM UTC-5, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, February 28, 2014 5

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-02-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 11:17:31 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 26 February 2014 12:58, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The alien hand syndrome, as originally defined, was used to describe cases involving anterior corpus callosal lesions producing

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-02-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, February 27, 2014 4:13:22 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On 26 February 2014 23:58, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The alien hand syndrome, as originally defined, was used to describe cases involving anterior corpus callosal lesions producing involuntary

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-02-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, February 27, 2014 9:47:33 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 27 February 2014 14:02, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: In other words, why, in a functionalist/materialist world would we need a breakable program to keep telling us that our hand is not Alien? When you

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, February 27, 2014 9:38:05 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Feb 2014, at 17:31, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:13:26 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 02:43, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: How do you turn your desire to move

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, February 27, 2014 12:52:41 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 25 Feb 2014, at 23:30, Craig Weinberg wrote: 0 doesn't = 0 in my theory. Identity isn't self contained in MSR. All identity is leased within some perspective. The more common the perspective, the longer the lease

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-02-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, February 27, 2014 8:03:15 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 28 February 2014 03:02, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: In other words, why, in a functionalist/materialist world would we need a breakable program to keep telling us that our hand is not Alien

Re: Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-02-27 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, February 27, 2014 7:54:53 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On 28 February 2014 01:05, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Thursday, February 27, 2014 4:13:22 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On 26 February 2014 23:58, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote

Alien Hand/Limb Syndrome

2014-02-26 Thread Craig Weinberg
The alien hand syndrome, as originally defined, was used to describe cases involving anterior corpus callosal lesions producing involuntary movement and a concomitant inability to distinguish the affected hand from an examiner's hand when these were placed in the patient's unaffected

Re: All mass and energy are just various forms of relative motion

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 8:59:44 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: This seems vaguely akin to the discovery that most of the mass-energy of a proton is the binding energy holding it together. If we found that the mass of the quarks was also in fact binding energy we might end up with something

Re: CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, February 24, 2014 8:17:02 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 03:38, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Sunday, February 23, 2014 7:22:36 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 23 February 2014 19:55, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote

Re: CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
, when I suspect that is neither. Craig Edgar On Sunday, February 23, 2014 9:55:27 AM UTC-5, Craig Weinberg wrote: This might be a more concise way of making my argument: It is my claim that CTM has overlooked the necessity to describe the method, mechanism, or arithmetic principle

Re: All mass and energy are just various forms of relative motion

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
Edgar On Sunday, February 23, 2014 8:43:08 PM UTC-5, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Sunday, February 23, 2014 8:13:15 PM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Craig, Yes of course there can be motion or relations without an experience if you mean a human experience. No, I don't mean human

Re: CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:21:15 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 13:56, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Sure, but there is a difference between restoring damaged parts of a living person's brain and putting parts synthetic brain parts

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:13:26 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 02:43, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: How do you turn your desire to move your hand into the neurological changes which move them? The neurological change is the expression of what

Re: All mass and energy are just various forms of relative motion

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
, February 24, 2014 9:08:52 AM UTC-5, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, February 24, 2014 8:09:35 AM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Craig, How do you define experiential phenomena without invoking an observer to experience them? The same way that I would invoke 'material phenomena

Re: CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, February 24, 2014 11:43:28 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 16:01, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:21:15 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 13:56, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: Sure

Re: CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:03:30 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 23 Feb 2014, at 15:55, Craig Weinberg wrote: This might be a more concise way of making my argument: It is my claim that CTM has overlooked the necessity to describe the method, mechanism, or arithmetic principle

Re: CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, February 24, 2014 12:16:26 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 16:59, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: You seem to be answering a different question. I thought it was a direct entailment of your theory that no part of the brain could

Re: CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, February 24, 2014 1:10:03 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 17:38, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: No, that's the point of the analogy, so you can see for yourself why the question is not reasonable. The question posed over and over to me

Re: All mass and energy are just various forms of relative motion

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
, was it not? If it weren't for some counter-intuitive theories, it still would be the norm. Craig Edgar On Monday, February 24, 2014 11:52:17 AM UTC-5, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Monday, February 24, 2014 10:56:08 AM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Craig, It's hard to understand how your view

Re: CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, February 24, 2014 2:06:24 PM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-02-24 20:02 GMT+01:00 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: : On Monday, February 24, 2014 1:10:03 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 17:38, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote

Re: CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, February 24, 2014 3:11:47 PM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-02-24 20:24 GMT+01:00 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: : On Monday, February 24, 2014 2:06:24 PM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-02-24 20:02 GMT+01:00 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-24 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Monday, February 24, 2014 3:32:03 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 16:31, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:13:26 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 02:43, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote: How

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-23 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 12:53:00 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On Sunday, February 23, 2014, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Saturday, February 22, 2014 2:05:47 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On Saturday, February 22, 2014, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com

CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-23 Thread Craig Weinberg
This might be a more concise way of making my argument: It is my claim that CTM has overlooked the necessity to describe the method, mechanism, or arithmetic principle by which computations are encountered. My hypothesis, drawn from both direct human experience as well as experience with

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-23 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 10:48:57 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 23 February 2014 00:18, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: The body's recognition of foreign protein markers is a lower level manifestation of the mismatch of higher level zoological history

Re: CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-23 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 10:35:33 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 23 February 2014 14:55, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: This might be a more concise way of making my argument: It is my claim that CTM has overlooked the necessity to describe the method

Re: All mass and energy are just various forms of relative motion

2014-02-23 Thread Craig Weinberg
Can there be any motion or relation without an experience in which a sense of motion or relation is literally encountered? On Sunday, February 23, 2014 9:37:46 AM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: All, Here's one more theory from my book on Reality: All forms of mass and energy are just

Re: All mass and energy are just various forms of relative motion

2014-02-23 Thread Craig Weinberg
that there are such beliefs out there is very popular. I'm talking about physics and ontology, it has nothing to do with biology or Homo sapiens. Craig Edgar On Sunday, February 23, 2014 6:39:45 PM UTC-5, Craig Weinberg wrote: Can there be any motion or relation without an experience in which

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-23 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 6:51:21 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 23 February 2014 19:04, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: After all, the standard objection to starting from the putative universality of consciousness is why does it appear that so much

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-23 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:50:57 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Feb 2014, at 18:36, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Feb 2014, at 15:25, Craig Weinberg wrote: If you say yes to the doctor, you are saying

Re: CTM Attack and Redemption

2014-02-23 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Sunday, February 23, 2014 7:22:36 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 23 February 2014 19:55, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Sunday, February 23, 2014 10:35:33 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 23 February 2014 14:55, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-22 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 22, 2014 12:29:04 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On 20 February 2014 09:24, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: You're assuming that precise molecular assembly will necessarily yield a coherent dynamic process, but that may not be the case at all

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-22 Thread Craig Weinberg
If you say yes to the doctor, you are saying that originality is an illusion and simulation is absolute. Arithmetic can do so many things, but it can't do something that can only be done once. Think of consciousness as not only that which can't be done more than once, it is that which cannot

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-22 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:34:08 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 22 February 2014 14:25, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: If you say yes to the doctor, you are saying that originality is an illusion Not an illusion, an invariant. If it is invariant

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-22 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Feb 2014, at 15:25, Craig Weinberg wrote: If you say yes to the doctor, you are saying that originality is an illusion Not at all. Your 1p-originality is preserved all the time. I'm not thinking of 1p

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-22 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 22, 2014 2:05:47 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On Saturday, February 22, 2014, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Saturday, February 22, 2014 12:29:04 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: On 20 February 2014 09:24, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-22 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 22, 2014 4:06:39 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 22 February 2014 15:09, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Saturday, February 22, 2014 9:34:08 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 22 February 2014 14:25, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote

Re: Turning the tables on the doctor

2014-02-22 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Saturday, February 22, 2014 8:49:33 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 23 February 2014 00:27, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Saturday, February 22, 2014 4:06:39 PM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 22 February 2014 15:09, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com wrote

Re: How Wolves Change Rivers

2014-02-21 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Friday, February 21, 2014 10:28:47 AM UTC-5, David Nyman wrote: On 20 February 2014 22:00, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I'm still unsure whether you don't grasp the relevance of my point, or are consciously or unconsciously side-stepping it. It's really peculiar

The Road to MSR: Philosophy of Mind Flowchart

2014-02-20 Thread Craig Weinberg
http://multisenserealism.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/flowchartfinal.jpg http://multisenserealism.com/2014/02/20/philosophy-of-mind-flowchart/ The idea here is that if we want to take the full spectrum of phenomena into account, we have to either begin with a reductionist realism and work

Re: What are numbers? What is math?

2014-02-19 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:42:48 PM UTC-5, chris peck wrote: how can facts exist that are not grounded in observation at some point? Russell and Liz are wandering around the countryside and Liz points at the ground and says: there's a gold coin buried right there. Russell says:

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