[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Jim Flanegin writes snipped: So again, I reject your notion that there is such a thing as a MMY/TMO style of enlightenment. It is enlightenment, pure and simple. Whether it is Maharishi, or SSRS, or Mother Meera, or Amma, or Guru Dev, it is just pure and simple enlightenment. Tom T: Yes Jim it is so simple and natural that it is possible for everyone initally to IGNORE it. That is why it is called ignorance. Too simple and easy. Not complicated enough for some to get. Well the good news is that no mind will ever get it. But, IT can get you. Ha Ha Ha. Tom T To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: um, you are talking to yourself again (TurquoiseB -- Geezerfreak). That is odd, don't you think? Paranoia seems to affect the supposedly-awakened, too. :-) In other words, geezerfreak ain't me. I suspect that even Judy, insane as she is, knows that. Why don't you? Jim, you should probably keep this particular seeing in mind next time you start to believe that your perceptions about things are correct. Others should also probably keep it in mind when evaluating Jim's supposed state of consciousness. I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. I have never posted on Fairfield Life using any ID but this one, TurquoiseB. And I don't have any plans to do so in the future. That kinda stuff is for pussies. Yeah, you got me ;-) Evaluate my supposed state of consciousness. YOU should evaluate it. Many times here on FFL you have merely assumed that because you perceived something, it was true. I don't think that is a safe assumption, about any individual or any state of consciousness. Anyone can be wrong, and the more certain they seem to be about being right, the more likely it probably is that they aren't. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: Geezer, You have provided me with some great laughs - I like your sense of humor. thanks Thanks Wayback. Nice to meetcha. Here's something that I remembered a few days ago that got me chuckling. Some may not realize this but flying did not always involve foams pads and bouncy bouncy. I was in the very first group to do...um...research into this particular sutra. We (a select group of Selisbergers) sat in a circle of chairs trying it out. Needless to say, not much was happening. One day I rigged a coathanger in my tie in such a way that I could manipulate the tiecause it to levitate...with my hand in my pocket. The chosen did their thing the next afternoon and sure enough, as everyone was slowly opening their eyes, the end of my tie was floating aloft trying to get it's dim witted owner to follow suit. You could hear the collective gasps in the room as everyone came out. Only when I lost it and started laughing did the camp divide into those (thankfully many) who thought it hilarious and those (the usual sad sack hard core) who thought humor should be kept OUT of spiritual development. Achtung! There vill be no yokes.NO YOKING in this room from now on! Ahh yes, good times. Humor has its place, but in that context, you were out of line. That's Mel Brooks sort of humr, where Jesus prays for a sign and someone pulls a prank that leads to legends of miracles. Works in the movies but NOT in real life. Well, maybe the legend-of-miracles part. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: um, you are talking to yourself again (TurquoiseB -- Geezerfreak). That is odd, don't you think? Paranoia seems to affect the supposedly-awakened, too. :-) In other words, geezerfreak ain't me. I suspect that even Judy, insane as she is, knows that. Why don't you? Jim, you should probably keep this particular seeing in mind next time you start to believe that your perceptions about things are correct. Others should also probably keep it in mind when evaluating Jim's supposed state of consciousness. Same question to you that I asked whatever his name is. Can you please name one person on the planet who you can state unequivocally is fully Realized, 24X7 enlightened? Absolutely not. If you claim that you can, t'would seem that your track record about being unequivocably right about lesser matters might be relevant. You can't even tell two completely different styles of writing apart, and you're telling us that you can tell who is enlightened and who isn't? You got some 'splainin to do, Jim... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: MMY defines fully mature Unity as ability to perform all sidhis without benefit of practicing a sutra. I don't believe anyone is in that state today, if ever there was someone. That is one of my points. And there is a long thread on this about a month ago. As some (Judy, for example) pointed out,and I agree, its virtually a truism that to claim MMY/TMO style of enlightenment, h one needs to fulfill TMO/MMY criteria. Its so obvious, its hard to believe that some dispute this almost identity statement, like A=A. You must have forgotten my assertion that there is no such thing as MMY/TMO style of enlightenment. This just gets stranger and stranger. Unless you are playing sematically games, or simply don't get the concept that MMY has defined specific attributes of what he means by enlightenemnt, UC and BC. I've never heard what attributes are assigned to BC... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Jim, you should probably keep this particular seeing in mind next time you start to believe that your perceptions about things are correct... Yeah, you got me ;-) Evaluate my supposed state of consciousness. YOU should evaluate it. Many times here on FFL you have merely assumed that because you perceived something, it was true. I don't think that is a safe assumption, about any individual or any state of consciousness. Anyone can be wrong, and the more certain they seem to be about being right, the more likely it probably is that they aren't. Have you figured out what this is all about yet, Jim? It's about you still being angry because I pointed out that you have a certain fear of and aversion to strong language. You reacted to my suggestion that you have such an aversion with, You create enemies, and in your mind obviously, I had created one in you by just speaking an obvious truth. I chose not to reply to that silliness, and the *next* thing you write to me or about me here on FFL is to claim that I'm the same person as geezerfreak. You don't see a connection there? Jim, you assume that a gentleman you've never even been in the same room with (MMY) is enlight- ened because you feel that it's true. You assume that you have a certain relationship with Guru Dev becaue you feel that to be true, too. *And*, as far as I can tell because you still had your panties in a twist because I pointed out that you've got some prudish ideas about language, you assumed that I was pretending to be someone else because you felt that to be true. Perception is *colored* by emotion and pre- existing belief and any number of other factors, Jim. You've still got LOTS of all these things going for you, and coloring your own. If I were you, I'd stop automatically assuming that your perceptions are true just because they're your perceptions. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip You must have forgotten my assertion that there is no such thing as MMY/TMO style of enlightenment. This just gets stranger and stranger. Unless you are playing sematically games, or simply don't get the concept that MMY has defined specific attributes of what he means by enlightenemnt, UC and BC. I get the sense that the two of you aren't understanding the word style the same way. new morning, what I get from your use of the phrase MMY style of enlightenment is enlightenment as MMY defines/describes it. Jim, I think, understands you to be saying that enlightenment as defined/described by MMY is not the same *state* as enlightenment as defined/described by Amma, which is not the same state as enlightenment as defined/described by SSRS, or by SBS, or whoever. Would you agree, new morning, that while different teachers define/describe that state differently, all who are enlightened may be in the same state? Is there a parallel to the metaphor the map is not the territory, i.e., that different teachers may be using different maps for the same territory? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I don't think that is a safe assumption, about any individual or any state of consciousness. Anyone can be wrong, and the more certain they seem to be about being right, the more likely it probably is that they aren't. Another of Barry's Rules. It applies primarily to those whose assumptions are different from those of Barry, of course. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: MMY defines fully mature Unity as ability to perform all sidhis without benefit of practicing a sutra. I don't believe anyone is in that state today, if ever there was someone. That is one of my points. And there is a long thread on this about a month ago. As some (Judy, for example) pointed out,and I agree, its virtually a truism that to claim MMY/TMO style of enlightenment, one needs to fulfill TMO/MMY criteria. Its so obvious, its hard to believe that some dispute this almost identity statement, like A=A. You must have forgotten my assertion that there is no such thing as MMY/TMO style of enlightenment. Following the logic you are using, SSRS must have achieved SSRS style enlightenment, Mother Meera must have achieved Mother Meera style enlightenment, Amma must have achieved Amma style enlightenment, Maharishi must have achieved Maharishi style enlightenment, and finally Guru Dev must have achieved Guru Dev style enlightenment. Continuing with your logic, each of these saints' respective enlightenments has its exclusive criteria, not shared by any other saint's style of enlightenment. In no case is there a one-to-one correspondence of criteria between say, one saint's enlightenment, and that of another. No saint would be able to ever acknowledge a fellow saint's state of consciousness as enlightened, because according to your logic, there are not any substantial commonalities between one saint's style of enlightenment and another saint's style of enlightenment. So again, I reject your notion that there is such a thing as a MMY/TMO style of enlightenment. It is enlightenment, pure and simple. Whether it is Maharishi, or SSRS, or Mother Meera, or Amma, or Guru Dev, it is just pure and simple enlightenment. I'm certainly no great scholar of enlightenment traditions, but my take on this is that there's a fundamental quality of awakening, common to all awakening traditions, in the recognition of I AM THAT on the level of pure awareness. It's a shift away from being solely identified with the individuated, dual mind/body. However, there are also various qualities that have shown up in the awakened/enlightened, and those qualities then got tacked on to the definition of enlightenment. Examples of those qualities are things like witnessing 24/7, perfected siddhis, saintly purity, small self completely disappearing, etc. IMO, all these arguments about who is or isn't enlightened derive from enlightenment not being universally defined. In my case, I've had that fundamental shift in identity, but I don't qualify as enlightened according to the criteria of many traditions. That's why I never claim anything more than a Waking Down second birth awakening, which, by the way, is different than other flavors of awakening in that it's an embodied awakening. It's not a purely nondual, transcendence-focussed, disregard the relative kind of awakening. In Waking Down, you awaken very deeply to who you are as a limited, dual being in addition to who you are as consciousness. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: Geezer, You have provided me with some great laughs - I like your sense of humor. thanks Thanks Wayback. Nice to meetcha. Here's something that I remembered a few days ago that got me chuckling. Some may not realize this but flying did not always involve foams pads and bouncy bouncy. I was in the very first group to do...um...research into this particular sutra. We (a select group of Selisbergers) sat in a circle of chairs trying it out. Needless to say, not much was happening. One day I rigged a coathanger in my tie in such a way that I could manipulate the tiecause it to levitate...with my hand in my pocket. The chosen did their thing the next afternoon and sure enough, as everyone was slowly opening their eyes, the end of my tie was floating aloft trying to get it's dim witted owner to follow suit. You could hear the collective gasps in the room as everyone came out. Only when I lost it and started laughing did the camp divide into those (thankfully many) who thought it hilarious and those (the usual sad sack hard core) who thought humor should be kept OUT of spiritual development. Achtung! There vill be no yokes.NO YOKING in this room from now on! Ahh yes, good times. Humor has its place, but in that context, you were out of line. That's Mel Brooks sort of humr, where Jesus prays for a sign and someone pulls a prank that leads to legends of miracles. Works in the movies but NOT in real life. Well, maybe the legend-of-miracles part. I was out of line? I guess that would put you in the sad sack hard core group then, wouldn't it. Got a question for you Sparaig..how many fingers can you get between your shirt collar and your neck? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: MMY defines fully mature Unity as ability to perform all sidhis without benefit of practicing a sutra. I don't believe anyone is in that state today, if ever there was someone. That is one of my points. And there is a long thread on this about a month ago. As some (Judy, for example) pointed out,and I agree, its virtually a truism that to claim MMY/TMO style of enlightenment, h one needs to fulfill TMO/MMY criteria. Its so obvious, its hard to believe that some dispute this almost identity statement, like A=A. You must have forgotten my assertion that there is no such thing as MMY/TMO style of enlightenment. This just gets stranger and stranger. Unless you are playing sematically games, or simply don't get the concept that MMY has defined specific attributes of what he means by enlightenemnt, UC and BC. All of us await your eventual proclamation of new.morning-style enlightenment. Perhaps you can list for us the attributes you have identified so far? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Jim, you should probably keep this particular seeing in mind next time you start to believe that your perceptions about things are correct... Yeah, you got me ;-) Evaluate my supposed state of consciousness. YOU should evaluate it. Many times here on FFL you have merely assumed that because you perceived something, it was true. I don't think that is a safe assumption, about any individual or any state of consciousness. Anyone can be wrong, and the more certain they seem to be about being right, the more likely it probably is that they aren't. An odd parallel to your assertion with no evidence to support it that you in fact saw Rama levitate. Caused quite a stir as I recall. Have you figured out what this is all about yet, Jim? It's about you still being angry because I pointed out that you have a certain fear of and aversion to strong language. Please see my post #99488. There is a time and place for everything. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: um, you are talking to yourself again (TurquoiseB -- Geezerfreak). That is odd, don't you think? Paranoia seems to affect the supposedly-awakened, too. :-) In other words, geezerfreak ain't me. I suspect that even Judy, insane as she is, knows that. Why don't you? Jim, you should probably keep this particular seeing in mind next time you start to believe that your perceptions about things are correct. Others should also probably keep it in mind when evaluating Jim's supposed state of consciousness. Same question to you that I asked whatever his name is. Can you please name one person on the planet who you can state unequivocally is fully Realized, 24X7 enlightened? Absolutely not. Does this then make you a TNB- True Non Believer? In other words, you castigate those who have been doing TM for years because they have unassailable beliefs, and here you stand, like their bookend, declaring just such an unassailable belief. I guess it takes a True Non Believer to see a True Believer doesn't it? And aren't they both pretty much the same? I think so. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Jim, you should probably keep this particular seeing in mind next time you start to believe that your perceptions about things are correct... Yeah, you got me ;-) Evaluate my supposed state of consciousness. YOU should evaluate it. Many times here on FFL you have merely assumed that because you perceived something, it was true. I don't think that is a safe assumption, about any individual or any state of consciousness. Anyone can be wrong, and the more certain they seem to be about being right, the more likely it probably is that they aren't. An odd parallel to your assertion with no evidence to support it that you in fact saw Rama levitate. Caused quite a stir as I recall. Not quite a parallel, Jim. Every time I have described this, I have made it very clear that it was my perception that he levitated. I saw this hundreds of times over many years. But if you'll check, both in my book and any time I have ever mentioned it here, I have always been careful to say that I don't know whether video cameras would have recorded it. In other words, one can *trust* one's perceptions without claiming that they represent some kind of truth. I saw what I saw, that's all. You've been very clear lately that you believe that your perceptions are equivalent to truth. You perceive Maharishi as enlightened, therefore he is. You perceive Guru Dev's energy, therefore it's really there. All I'm pointing out is that yesterday you perceived that I was pretending to be another poster called geezerfreak, and you assumed that perception must be equally true. It wasn't. Your perceptions are fallible. I honestly think you'd be better served in the future to think This is what I perceive and it may have nothing whatsoever to do with what is true rather than This is what I perceive, therefore it's true. You can rely on the first statement. *Clearly*, you cannot rely on the second. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate on 9/5/06 10:58 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not quite a parallel, Jim. Every time I have described this, I have made it very clear that it was my perception that he levitated. I saw this hundreds of times over many years. But if you'll check, both in my book and any time I have ever mentioned it here, I have always been careful to say that I don't know whether video cameras would have recorded it. Didnt he ever have video cameras there? If not, why not? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I honestly think you'd be better served in the future to think This is what I perceive and it may have nothing whatsoever to do with what is true rather than This is what I perceive, therefore it's true. Just as you now realize contrary to your earlier perception, by my posting #99488, that I am not angry, nor do have a fear or aversion to strong language, as you put it. I just use it sparingly. Cheers. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Same question to you that I asked whatever his name is. Can you please name one person on the planet who you can state unequivocally is fully Realized, 24X7 enlightened? Absolutely not. Does this then make you a TNB- True Non Believer? In other words, you castigate those who have been doing TM for years because they have unassailable beliefs, and here you stand, like their bookend, declaring just such an unassailable belief. What unassailable belief? You asked whether I could state unequivocably that someone -- anyone -- was enlightened. I can't. Didn't you read the recent post in which I said that I don't believe that it is *possible* to say for sure whether someone is enlightened or not? Since I believe this, how could I possibly point to someone and say, This person is enlightened? I guess it takes a True Non Believer to see a True Believer doesn't it? And aren't they both pretty much the same? I think so. You're losing it, Jim. The belief that I cannot say for sure that a person is enlightened is NOT the same thing as believing that no one is enlightened. Except in your mind, that is. I believe in enlightenment, and have have enlight- enment experiences myself. But do I consider myself enlightened? Of course not. Do I consider Maharishi enlightened? Nope, and I've explained why. Do I consider anyone else I have encountered in this life enlightened? Nope, not for certain. My experiences meditating with a few people suggest to me that they might be, but I don't know for sure, and probably never will. The difference between the two of us, Jim, seems to be that I am comfortable with I don't know for sure and probably never will, and you are not. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/5/06 10:58 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not quite a parallel, Jim. Every time I have described this, I have made it very clear that it was my perception that he levitated. I saw this hundreds of times over many years. But if you'll check, both in my book and any time I have ever mentioned it here, I have always been careful to say that I don't know whether video cameras would have recorded it. Didn¹t he ever have video cameras there? If not, why not? Nope. I don't know, but my suspicion is that he didn't believe that certain siddhis -- like invisibility and levitation -- actually happened on the gross physical level. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does this then make you a TNB- True Non Believer? In other words, you castigate those who have been doing TM for years because they have unassailable beliefs, and here you stand, like their bookend, declaring just such an unassailable belief. I guess it takes a True Non Believer to see a True Believer doesn't it? And aren't they both pretty much the same? I think so. Jim, the trademark of a True Believer is, according to Eric Hoffer,his ability to switch sides. Fanatical Nazis could just as easily become fanatical communists. It's only logical that fanatical TMers can just as easily become fanatical Anti-TMers, who are virtually obsessed with other persons lives and believes, as it gives meaning to their otherwise meaningless lives. Think of a person who has spent the last two decades virtually every day for several hours at various internet forums, castigating what he views as cult mentality - in fact trying to prove cult mentality to people who really don't show any sign of it at all. Like to Bob, who has a movement critical webside. Or chasing the daily schedule of Judy Stein. Why would anybody do this? See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hoffer#On_the_Nature_and_Origins_of_Mass_Movements A man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth minding. When it is not, he takes his mind off his own meaningless affairs by minding other people's business. --The True Believer. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I honestly think you'd be better served in the future to think This is what I perceive and it may have nothing whatsoever to do with what is true rather than This is what I perceive, therefore it's true. Just as you now realize contrary to your earlier perception, by my posting #99488, that I am not angry, nor do have a fear or aversion to strong language, as you put it. I just use it sparingly. Cheers. I see you're not going to deal with the concept that your perceptions might be wrong. Ok. What- ever floats your boat. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Humor has its place, but in that context, you were out of line. That's Mel Brooks sort of humr, where Jesus prays for a sign and someone pulls a prank that leads to legends of miracles. Works in the movies but NOT in real life. Well, maybe the legend-of-miracles part. I was out of line? I guess that would put you in the sad sack hard core group then, wouldn't it. Classic implementation of Barry's Rules: If you disagree with a True Nonbeliever, you must be a True Believer. Corollary: If you disagree with a True Nonbeliever, your point of view is Wrong, because True Believers are by definition Never Right. Like I say, it's really, really simple if you just follow Barry's Rules. Got a question for you Sparaig..how many fingers can you get between your shirt collar and your neck? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I honestly think you'd be better served in the future to think This is what I perceive and it may have nothing whatsoever to do with what is true rather than This is what I perceive, therefore it's true. Just as you now realize contrary to your earlier perception, by my posting #99488, that I am not angry, nor do have a fear or aversion to strong language, as you put it. I just use it sparingly. Cheers. I see you're not going to deal with the concept that your perceptions might be wrong. Ok. What- ever floats your boat. ROTFL!!! Barry Wright, Master of Inadvertent Irony. Completely oblivious. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: Geezer, You have provided me with some great laughs - I like your sense of humor. thanks Thanks Wayback. Nice to meetcha. Here's something that I remembered a few days ago that got me chuckling. Some may not realize this but flying did not always involve foams pads and bouncy bouncy. I was in the very first group to do...um...research into this particular sutra. We (a select group of Selisbergers) sat in a circle of chairs trying it out. Needless to say, not much was happening. One day I rigged a coathanger in my tie in such a way that I could manipulate the tiecause it to levitate...with my hand in my pocket. The chosen did their thing the next afternoon and sure enough, as everyone was slowly opening their eyes, the end of my tie was floating aloft trying to get it's dim witted owner to follow suit. You could hear the collective gasps in the room as everyone came out. Only when I lost it and started laughing did the camp divide into those (thankfully many) who thought it hilarious and those (the usual sad sack hard core) who thought humor should be kept OUT of spiritual development. Achtung! There vill be no yokes.NO YOKING in this room from now on! Ahh yes, good times. Humor has its place, but in that context, you were out of line. That's Mel Brooks sort of humr, where Jesus prays for a sign and someone pulls a prank that leads to legends of miracles. Works in the movies but NOT in real life. Well, maybe the legend-of-miracles part. I was out of line? I guess that would put you in the sad sack hard core group then, wouldn't it. Yep, or perhaps I simply recognize that humor has its place, and that wasn't it. Got a question for you Sparaig..how many fingers can you get between your shirt collar and your neck? I'm getting pretty fat these days. All my collars are stretched out. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yours in desperation, geezerfreak (who doesn't even have the guts to sign his own name...) OK Judy, time to come clean. The name's Bevan Morris. Perhaps you've heard of me? I'd really appreciate you're curbing these assholic posts of yours. They annoy Maharishi no end. First time I've heard him call someone a twat in years! (He does appreciate your knowing that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.) drinky drinky! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: You live to argue, pointlessly. And you live to deceive. Hi kids, Judy here again. Oh dear, I had the best intentions and wanted so much to remove my rear end from my internet thrown and go outside today. I'm afraid my evil old self took over and I've gone all cunty again! Honestly, I really do want to be a better person, a loving, non-judgemental person. Please bear with me as I wrestle with my inner demons. Geezerfreak, in the interest of fairness and accuracy I have to...uh...stand up for Judy here and suggest that you are exaggerating. One quick search of Yahoo shows that yesterday she did *not* sit in front of the computer all day, as you claim in your parody. She only sat there in front of the monitor for her normal 9-to-5 shift (9:34 am - 5:02 pm, to be exact), posting every few minutes, all day. After that I'm sure it was possible for her to go outside and get some sun, say between 5:00 pm her time and sunset, when she came back and making another few posts. As for gone all cunty, well, that's definitely fair and accurate, so carry on... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: snip Hi kids, Judy here again. Oh dear, I had the best intentions and wanted so much to remove my rear end from my internet thrown and go outside today. I'm afraid my evil old self took over and I've gone all cunty again! Honestly, I really do want to be a better person, a loving, non-judgemental person. Please bear with me as I wrestle with my inner demons. Geezerfreak, in the interest of fairness and accuracy I have to...uh...stand up for Judy here and suggest that you are exaggerating. One quick search of Yahoo shows that yesterday she did *not* sit in front of the computer all day, as you claim in your parody. She only sat there in front of the monitor for her normal 9-to-5 shift (9:34 am - 5:02 pm, to be exact), posting every few minutes, all day. Actually by every few minutes Barry means about every 13 minutes on average from 9:34 am to 12:22 pm (14 posts), followed by an hour's lunch break; then about one every 26 minutes until a bit before 3 pm (4 posts), at which point I went out for a stroll on the boardwalk (my second for the day, the first having been in the early morning after program (I'm very fair- skinned, so I try to avoid going out when the sun is high). Then I did some work from about a quarter after 4, when I got back, until around 5:00, when I did my program again, then worked some more until I knocked off for the day at 8:30, having made 3 posts (average 1 per hour and a half), and then one final post at 11:37 before I went to bed. My actual working hours yesterday were those 3 late afternoon-evening hours. The morning hours when I was posting frequently were personal time, catching up on email, paying bills, making phone calls, and so on--short tasks with posts sandwiched in between. The early afternoon hours were recreational, mostly surfing and online shopping, with a few posts here and there. I was also doing some dinner preparations for when some came over after I was finished working at 8:30. After that I'm sure it was possible for her to go outside and get some sun, say between 5:00 pm her time and sunset, when she came back and making another few posts. Barry has a bit of trouble with the time zone difference between the U.S. and France; I was out from a little before 3 till a little after 4. And as noted, he also has a rather expansive view of every few minutes. That's a fairly typical day for me, as it happens. The nice thing about working for myself is that I can make up my own schedule as I go along, post or surf whenever I need a little break without anybody looking over my shoulder, take longer breaks and relax or go out or go shopping when the mood strikes me, work when I feel like it. As for gone all cunty, well, that's definitely fair and accurate, so carry on... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I was also doing some dinner preparations for when some came over after I was finished working at 8:30. Some friends, that would be... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: You live to argue, pointlessly. And you live to deceive. Hi kids, Judy here again. Oh dear, I had the best intentions and wanted so much to remove my rear end from my internet thrown and go outside today. I'm afraid my evil old self took over and I've gone all cunty again! Honestly, I really do want to be a better person, a loving, non-judgemental person. Please bear with me as I wrestle with my inner demons. Geezerfreak, in the interest of fairness and accuracy I have to...uh...stand up for Judy here and suggest that you are exaggerating. One quick search of Yahoo shows that yesterday she did *not* sit in front of the computer all day, as you claim in your parody. She only sat there in front of the monitor for her normal 9-to-5 shift (9:34 am - 5:02 pm, to be exact), posting every few minutes, all day. After that I'm sure it was possible for her to go outside and get some sun, say between 5:00 pm her time and sunset, when she came back and making another few posts. As for gone all cunty, well, that's definitely fair and accurate, so carry on... :-) um, you are talking to yourself again (TurquoiseB -- Geezerfreak). That is odd, don't you think? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: um, you are talking to yourself again (TurquoiseB -- Geezerfreak). That is odd, don't you think? Paranoia seems to affect the supposedly-awakened, too. :-) In other words, geezerfreak ain't me. I suspect that even Judy, insane as she is, knows that. Why don't you? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: um, you are talking to yourself again (TurquoiseB -- Geezerfreak). That is odd, don't you think? Paranoia seems to affect the supposedly-awakened, too. :-) In other words, geezerfreak ain't me. I suspect that even Judy, insane as she is, knows that. Why don't you? Jim, you should probably keep this particular seeing in mind next time you start to believe that your perceptions about things are correct. Others should also probably keep it in mind when evaluating Jim's supposed state of consciousness. I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. I have never posted on Fairfield Life using any ID but this one, TurquoiseB. And I don't have any plans to do so in the future. That kinda stuff is for pussies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I have never posted on Fairfield Life using any ID but this one, TurquoiseB. And I don't have any plans to do so in the future. That kinda stuff is for pussies. I guess you've gotten braver, then, because you used to do it on alt.m.t all the time. (Still, it was always obviously you, even when you tried to disguise yourself. geezerfreak's clearly *not* you, even though the two of you share an obsession with me.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: um, you are talking to yourself again (TurquoiseB -- Geezerfreak). That is odd, don't you think? Paranoia seems to affect the supposedly-awakened, too. :-) In other words, geezerfreak ain't me. I suspect that even Judy, insane as she is, knows that. Why don't you? Jim, you should probably keep this particular seeing in mind next time you start to believe that your perceptions about things are correct. Others should also probably keep it in mind when evaluating Jim's supposed state of consciousness. I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. I have never posted on Fairfield Life using any ID but this one, TurquoiseB. And I don't have any plans to do so in the future. That kinda stuff is for pussies. Yeah, you got me ;-) Evaluate my supposed state of consciousness. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. Actually, Barry, I can't see your email or IP address because you config'd your subscription with the Hide my email and IP address from the group moderators option. And, I don't think Rick, the group owner, can see them either. I did look up geezerfreak's IP, and it's an AOL IP. I googled the newest post I could find by Uncle Tantra on a.m.t (Apr 25 2005), and it originated from out-of.ilog.fr To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: um, you are talking to yourself again (TurquoiseB -- Geezerfreak). That is odd, don't you think? Paranoia seems to affect the supposedly-awakened, too. :-) In other words, geezerfreak ain't me. I suspect that even Judy, insane as she is, knows that. Why don't you? Hey, if it walks like an Unc, talks like an Unc, and looks like an Unc... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: um, you are talking to yourself again (TurquoiseB -- Geezerfreak). That is odd, don't you think? Paranoia seems to affect the supposedly-awakened, too. :-) In other words, geezerfreak ain't me. I suspect that even Judy, insane as she is, knows that. Why don't you? Jim, you should probably keep this particular seeing in mind next time you start to believe that your perceptions about things are correct. Others should also probably keep it in mind when evaluating Jim's supposed state of consciousness. I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. I have never posted on Fairfield Life using any ID but this one, TurquoiseB. And I don't have any plans to do so in the future. That kinda stuff is for pussies. Why would this be the case? I have several valid email addresses, including yaghoo.com. I can furnish any of them during a registratio process. And I don't think that Yahoo makes a contributor's domain address available to forum-level adiminstrators, though I might be wrong. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. Actually, Barry, I can't see your email or IP address because you config'd your subscription with the Hide my email and IP address from the group moderators option. And, I don't think Rick, the group owner, can see them either. I did look up geezerfreak's IP, and it's an AOL IP. I googled the newest post I could find by Uncle Tantra on a.m.t (Apr 25 2005), and it originated from out-of.ilog.fr Of course, logically speaking, Barry could simply write messages to a friend in the states who posts them under a yahoo name barry set up. But the energy signiture appears quite different between the two. An obvious thing Jim appears to have missed. Normally, no harm, no foul. But for Jim, who has made (it appears to me) quite definitive and fully-confident observations based on his ability to clearly distinguish energy-signitures of different people, or to look at them a certainway virtually --not in person -- and gain specific knowledge of them, as well as the ~only WE can recognize each other phenomenon, it perhaps is significant that his foo foo raydar is malfunctioning in the case of Barry and Gezzerfreak. Makes you wonder, could it also be malfunctioning in other confident observations of his? Not to pick-on or focus on Jim, but (mis)interpreting ones abilities, experiences and states is a key issue /hurrdle, IMO. This is one of a number of examples posted, periodically, where the interpretation does not fit the circumstances, though to the observer they really [really] seem to. Thus, perhaps,the value of a Guru who has lived the Supreme state for 30-40 years, has seen many false claims and false starts, to verify and label experiences, and not to solely rely on co-dependent praises from a circle of friends. [Termed a circle jerk by one wag.] As to states of consciousness that Barry brought up, on the surface, there appears little connection to the ability to distinguish two posters -- and the state of ones consciousness. Unless, if one claims they have special knowledge, insights and abilities that stem from their Enlightenment -- however defined -- and these special abilities are shown to be only imaginations, then it does cast some shadows on claims of total Enlightenment. And/or the persons correct interpretation of what they experience. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. Actually, Barry, I can't see your email or IP address because you config'd your subscription with the Hide my email and IP address from the group moderators option. And, I don't think Rick, the group owner, can see them either. I did look up geezerfreak's IP, and it's an AOL IP. I googled the newest post I could find by Uncle Tantra on a.m.t (Apr 25 2005), and it originated from out-of.ilog.fr Of course, logically speaking, Barry could simply write messages to a friend in the states who posts them under a yahoo name barry set up. But the energy signiture appears quite different between the two. An obvious thing Jim appears to have missed. Normally, no harm, no foul. But for Jim, who has made (it appears to me) quite definitive and fully-confident observations based on his ability to clearly distinguish energy-signitures of different people, or to look at them a certainway virtually --not in person -- and gain specific knowledge of them, as well as the ~only WE can recognize each other phenomenon, it perhaps is significant that his foo foo raydar is malfunctioning in the case of Barry and Gezzerfreak. Makes you wonder, could it also be malfunctioning in other confident observations of his? Not to pick-on or focus on Jim, but (mis)interpreting ones abilities, experiences and states is a key issue /hurrdle, IMO. This is one of a number of examples posted, periodically, where the interpretation does not fit the circumstances, though to the observer they really [really] seem to. Thus, perhaps,the value of a Guru who has lived the Supreme state for 30-40 years, has seen many false claims and false starts, to verify and label experiences, and not to solely rely on co-dependent praises from a circle of friends. [Termed a circle jerk by one wag.] As to states of consciousness that Barry brought up, on the surface, there appears little connection to the ability to distinguish two posters -- and the state of ones consciousness. Unless, if one claims they have special knowledge, insights and abilities that stem from their Enlightenment -- however defined -- and these special abilities are shown to be only imaginations, then it does cast some shadows on claims of total Enlightenment. And/or the persons correct interpretation of what they experience. Good lord peoplethe paranoia! No, I am not Barry. I don't who Barry is...I only know his name is Barry because someonegod is it that uber yenta Judy?...calls him that. Barry, sorry man. (I'd like to know you since you seem to have your head screwed on pretty tight. When did you do your time? Mine was Seelisberg and therebouts...1972 through '76.) There's a handfull of posters here who know me well. Anyone who desires...please step forth and let Barry off the hook. You can give my true identity as Judy Stein. That's right, I'm at war with myself. It's a stretch I know, but I'm hoping that this keeps me, if not relevant, then at least in the FFL public eye. You know, any publicity is good publicity. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. Actually, Barry, I can't see your email or IP address because you config'd your subscription with the Hide my email and IP address from the group moderators option. And, I don't think Rick, the group owner, can see them either. I did look up geezerfreak's IP, and it's an AOL IP. I googled the newest post I could find by Uncle Tantra on a.m.t (Apr 25 2005), and it originated from out-of.ilog.fr Of course, logically speaking, Barry could simply write messages to a friend in the states who posts them under a yahoo name barry set up. But the energy signiture appears quite different between the two. An obvious thing Jim appears to have missed. Normally, no harm, no foul. But for Jim, who has made (it appears to me) quite definitive and fully-confident observations based on his ability to clearly distinguish energy-signitures of different people, or to look at them a certainway virtually --not in person -- and gain specific knowledge of them, as well as the ~only WE can recognize each other phenomenon, it perhaps is significant that his foo foo raydar is malfunctioning in the case of Barry and Gezzerfreak. Makes you wonder, could it also be malfunctioning in other confident observations of his? Not to pick-on or focus on Jim, but (mis)interpreting ones abilities, experiences and states is a key issue /hurrdle, IMO. This is one of a number of examples posted, periodically, where the interpretation does not fit the circumstances, though to the observer they really [really] seem to. Thus, perhaps,the value of a Guru who has lived the Supreme state for 30-40 years, has seen many false claims and false starts, to verify and label experiences, and not to solely rely on co- dependent praises from a circle of friends. [Termed a circle jerk by one wag.] As to states of consciousness that Barry brought up, on the surface, there appears little connection to the ability to distinguish two posters -- and the state of ones consciousness. Unless, if one claims they have special knowledge, insights and abilities that stem from their Enlightenment -- however defined - - and these special abilities are shown to be only imaginations, then it does cast some shadows on claims of total Enlightenment. And/or the persons correct interpretation of what they experience. Now, if you recall the question I asked of you awhile back, please name just one person on the entire planet today who is enlightened. Just one. It is clear you have doubts about my claim to be enlightened. So put me aside for the time being. Please name one enlightened person on the planet today. Just one. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. Actually, Barry, I can't see your email or IP address because you config'd your subscription with the Hide my email and IP address from the group moderators option. And, I don't think Rick, the group owner, can see them either. I did look up geezerfreak's IP, and it's an AOL IP. I googled the newest post I could find by Uncle Tantra on a.m.t (Apr 25 2005), and it originated from out-of.ilog.fr Of course, logically speaking, Barry could simply write messages to a friend in the states who posts them under a yahoo name barry set up. But the energy signiture appears quite different between the two. An obvious thing Jim appears to have missed. Normally, no harm, no foul. But for Jim, who has made (it appears to me) quite definitive and fully-confident observations based on his ability to clearly distinguish energy-signitures of different people, or to look at them a certainway virtually --not in person -- and gain specific knowledge of them, as well as the ~only WE can recognize each other phenomenon, it perhaps is significant that his foo foo raydar is malfunctioning in the case of Barry and Gezzerfreak. Makes you wonder, could it also be malfunctioning in other confident observations of his? Not to pick-on or focus on Jim, but (mis)interpreting ones abilities, experiences and states is a key issue /hurrdle, IMO. This is one of a number of examples posted, periodically, where the interpretation does not fit the circumstances, though to the observer they really [really] seem to. Thus, perhaps,the value of a Guru who has lived the Supreme state for 30-40 years, has seen many false claims and false starts, to verify and label experiences, and not to solely rely on co- dependent praises from a circle of friends. [Termed a circle jerk by one wag.] As to states of consciousness that Barry brought up, on the surface, there appears little connection to the ability to distinguish two posters -- and the state of ones consciousness. Unless, if one claims they have special knowledge, insights and abilities that stem from their Enlightenment -- however defined - - and these special abilities are shown to be only imaginations, then it does cast some shadows on claims of total Enlightenment. And/or the persons correct interpretation of what they experience. Now, if you recall the question I asked of you awhile back, please name just one person on the entire planet today who is enlightened. Just one. It is clear you have doubts about my claim to be enlightened. So put me aside for the time being. Please name one enlightened person on the planet today. Just one. MMY defines fully mature Unity as ability to perform all sidhis without benefit of practicing a sutra. I don't believe anyone is in that state today, if ever there was someone. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. Actually, Barry, I can't see your email or IP address because you config'd your subscription with the Hide my email and IP address from the group moderators option. And, I don't think Rick, the group owner, can see them either. I did look up geezerfreak's IP, and it's an AOL IP. I googled the newest post I could find by Uncle Tantra on a.m.t (Apr 25 2005), and it originated from out-of.ilog.fr Of course, logically speaking, Barry could simply write messages to a friend in the states who posts them under a yahoo name barry set up. But the energy signiture appears quite different between the two. An obvious thing Jim appears to have missed. Normally, no harm, no foul. But for Jim, who has made (it appears to me) quite definitive and fully-confident observations based on his ability to clearly distinguish energy-signitures of different people, or to look at them a certainway virtually --not in person -- and gain specific knowledge of them, as well as the ~only WE can recognize each other phenomenon, it perhaps is significant that his foo foo raydar is malfunctioning in the case of Barry and Gezzerfreak. Makes you wonder, could it also be malfunctioning in other confident observations of his? Not to pick-on or focus on Jim, but (mis)interpreting ones abilities, experiences and states is a key issue /hurrdle, IMO. This is one of a number of examples posted, periodically, where the interpretation does not fit the circumstances, though to the observer they really [really] seem to. Thus, perhaps,the value of a Guru who has lived the Supreme state for 30-40 years, has seen many false claims and false starts, to verify and label experiences, and not to solely rely on co-dependent praises from a circle of friends. [Termed a circle jerk by one wag.] As to states of consciousness that Barry brought up, on the surface, there appears little connection to the ability to distinguish two posters -- and the state of ones consciousness. Unless, if one claims they have special knowledge, insights and abilities that stem from their Enlightenment -- however defined -- and these special abilities are shown to be only imaginations, then it does cast some shadows on claims of total Enlightenment. And/or the persons correct interpretation of what they experience. Good lord peoplethe paranoia! No, I am not Barry. I don't who Barry is...I only know his name is Barry because someonegod is it that uber yenta Judy?...calls him that. Barry, sorry man. (I'd like to know you since you seem to have your head screwed on pretty tight. When did you do your time? Mine was Seelisberg and therebouts...1972 through '76.) There's a handfull of posters here who know me well. Anyone who desires...please step forth and let Barry off the hook. You can give my true identity as Judy Stein. That's right, I'm at war with myself. It's a stretch I know, but I'm hoping that this keeps me, if not relevant, then at least in the FFL public eye. You know, any publicity is good publicity. Geezer, You have provided me with some great laughs - I like your sense of humor. thanks To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: um, you are talking to yourself again (TurquoiseB -- Geezerfreak). That is odd, don't you think? Paranoia seems to affect the supposedly-awakened, too. :-) In other words, geezerfreak ain't me. I suspect that even Judy, insane as she is, knows that. Why don't you? Jim, you should probably keep this particular seeing in mind next time you start to believe that your perceptions about things are correct. Others should also probably keep it in mind when evaluating Jim's supposed state of consciousness. Same question to you that I asked whatever his name is. Can you please name one person on the planet who you can state unequivocally is fully Realized, 24X7 enlightened? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
On Sep 4, 2006, at 9:32 PM, geezerfreak wrote: Good lord peoplethe paranoia! No, I am not Barry. I don't who Barry is... Uh, huh, sure, that's what they all say...next thing you know you'll be telling us your name is Bevan Morris or something... Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. Actually, Barry, I can't see your email or IP address because you config'd your subscription with the Hide my email and IP address from the group moderators option. And, I don't think Rick, the group owner, can see them either. I did look up geezerfreak's IP, and it's an AOL IP. I googled the newest post I could find by Uncle Tantra on a.m.t (Apr 25 2005), and it originated from out-of.ilog.fr Of course, logically speaking, Barry could simply write messages to a friend in the states who posts them under a yahoo name barry set up. But the energy signiture appears quite different between the two. An obvious thing Jim appears to have missed. Normally, no harm, no foul. But for Jim, who has made (it appears to me) quite definitive and fully-confident observations based on his ability to clearly distinguish energy-signitures of different people, or to look at them a certainway virtually --not in person -- and gain specific knowledge of them, as well as the ~only WE can recognize each other phenomenon, it perhaps is significant that his foo foo raydar is malfunctioning in the case of Barry and Gezzerfreak. Makes you wonder, could it also be malfunctioning in other confident observations of his? Not to pick-on or focus on Jim, but (mis)interpreting ones abilities, experiences and states is a key issue /hurrdle, IMO. This is one of a number of examples posted, periodically, where the interpretation does not fit the circumstances, though to the observer they really [really] seem to. Thus, perhaps,the value of a Guru who has lived the Supreme state for 30-40 years, has seen many false claims and false starts, to verify and label experiences, and not to solely rely on co-dependent praises from a circle of friends. [Termed a circle jerk by one wag.] As to states of consciousness that Barry brought up, on the surface, there appears little connection to the ability to distinguish two posters -- and the state of ones consciousness. Unless, if one claims they have special knowledge, insights and abilities that stem from their Enlightenment -- however defined -- and these special abilities are shown to be only imaginations, then it does cast some shadows on claims of total Enlightenment. And/or the persons correct interpretation of what they experience. Good lord peoplethe paranoia! Paranoia? In the comments direcly above? Oh My. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Same question to you that I asked whatever his name is. Can you please name one person on the planet who you can state unequivocally is fully Realized, 24X7 enlightened? Is this question directed at me? No, I can't name one person currently on the planet who is fully realized. I'd have to be enlightened to truly know that wouldn't I? And I ain't enlightened I can assure you. Guru Dev, from everything I know (thank YOU Paul for your endless research!) appears to have been the real deal. Oh yes, and Miles Davis of course but that goes without saying. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Same question to you that I asked whatever his name is. Can you please name one person on the planet who you can state unequivocally is fully Realized, 24X7 enlightened? Is this question directed at me? No, I can't name one person currently on the planet who is fully realized. I'd have to be enlightened to truly know that wouldn't I? And I ain't enlightened I can assure you. Guru Dev, from everything I know (thank YOU Paul for your endless research!) appears to have been the real deal. Oh yes, and Miles Davis of course but that goes without saying. Hi- actually I was asking TurquoiseB, aka Barry. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I assume that the moderators (Rick, Alex, and whoever) can tell what a poster's real address is behind their Yahoo address. I hereby give them permission to bust me publicly here if their resources show that I (TurquoiseB/Barry) am the same poster as Geezerfreak. Actually, Barry, I can't see your email or IP address because you config'd your subscription with the Hide my email and IP address from the group moderators option. And, I don't think Rick, the group owner, can see them either. I did look up geezerfreak's IP, and it's an AOL IP. I googled the newest post I could find by Uncle Tantra on a.m.t (Apr 25 2005), and it originated from out-of.ilog.fr Of course, logically speaking, Barry could simply write messages to a friend in the states who posts them under a yahoo name barry set up. But the energy signiture appears quite different between the two. An obvious thing Jim appears to have missed. Normally, no harm, no foul. But for Jim, who has made (it appears to me) quite definitive and fully-confident observations based on his ability to clearly distinguish energy-signitures of different people, or to look at them a certainway virtually --not in person -- and gain specific knowledge of them, as well as the ~only WE can recognize each other phenomenon, it perhaps is significant that his foo foo raydar is malfunctioning in the case of Barry and Gezzerfreak. Makes you wonder, could it also be malfunctioning in other confident observations of his? Not to pick-on or focus on Jim, but (mis)interpreting ones abilities, experiences and states is a key issue /hurrdle, IMO. This is one of a number of examples posted, periodically, where the interpretation does not fit the circumstances, though to the observer they really [really] seem to. Thus, perhaps,the value of a Guru who has lived the Supreme state for 30-40 years, has seen many false claims and false starts, to verify and label experiences, and not to solely rely on co-dependent praises from a circle of friends. [Termed a circle jerk by one wag.] As to states of consciousness that Barry brought up, on the surface, there appears little connection to the ability to distinguish two posters -- and the state of ones consciousness. Unless, if one claims they have special knowledge, insights and abilities that stem from their Enlightenment -- however defined -- and these special abilities are shown to be only imaginations, then it does cast some shadows on claims of total Enlightenment. And/or the persons correct interpretation of what they experience. Good lord peoplethe paranoia! Paranoia? In the comments direcly above? Oh My. No New Morning, not the post direcly aboveI was refering to the string for chrissakes. Nice post the other day aboutwhat was the title? Anyway, you know the one. I have to print that one out and really digest it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate on 9/4/06 9:32 PM, geezerfreak at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did you do your time? Mine was Seelisberg and therebouts...1972 through '76.) I must know you well, since I was there from 74-76. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geezer, You have provided me with some great laughs - I like your sense of humor. thanks Thanks Wayback. Nice to meetcha. Here's something that I remembered a few days ago that got me chuckling. Some may not realize this but flying did not always involve foams pads and bouncy bouncy. I was in the very first group to do...um...research into this particular sutra. We (a select group of Selisbergers) sat in a circle of chairs trying it out. Needless to say, not much was happening. One day I rigged a coathanger in my tie in such a way that I could manipulate the tiecause it to levitate...with my hand in my pocket. The chosen did their thing the next afternoon and sure enough, as everyone was slowly opening their eyes, the end of my tie was floating aloft trying to get it's dim witted owner to follow suit. You could hear the collective gasps in the room as everyone came out. Only when I lost it and started laughing did the camp divide into those (thankfully many) who thought it hilarious and those (the usual sad sack hard core) who thought humor should be kept OUT of spiritual development. Achtung! There vill be no yokes.NO YOKING in this room from now on! Ahh yes, good times. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MMY defines fully mature Unity as ability to perform all sidhis without benefit of practicing a sutra. I don't believe anyone is in that state today, if ever there was someone. That is one of my points. And there is a long thread on this about a month ago. As some (Judy, for example) pointed out,and I agree, its virtually a truism that to claim MMY/TMO style of enlightenment, one needs to fulfill TMO/MMY criteria. Its so obvious, its hard to believe that some dispute this almost identity statement, like A=A. Yet some do. Its mind boggling. And then they have issues with, feel insulted apparently, if one questions their claims (of MMY/TMO style enlightnement) or their abilities to correctly interpret their experiences when they can't even grok a basic truism. On the other hand, I have fewor no comments in self-proclaimed enlightenments becaause, AFAIR, no one ever has the cosmic balls to actually define and articulate the attributes the enlightenment they proclaim. (But some make tired arguments about how can define atributes of the attrributeless? Fine then, but then the rock on my desk is as enlightened as they are. Or they have no way of contering such a claim.) But self-proclaimed stuff if fine, as far as i am concerned. It just doesn't amount to much in my book, unless there is some coherence to the talk about it, and the exude and radiate the qualities they claim. And those proclaimed enlightened or awakened by specific traditions, more power to them. I have been nothing but complimentary of Alex and his second degree awakening in the Waking-Down tradition. (my phrasing, apologies if I got it wrong). I may not know exactly what it is, but I have read thier websites and have a feel for what it means. Cool. Waking-down on! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/4/06 9:32 PM, geezerfreak at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did you do your time? Mine was Seelisberg and therebouts...1972 through '76.) Were you a 108? In Tahoe in fall of 72 at 108 course? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good lord peoplethe paranoia! Paranoia? In the comments direcly above? Oh My. No New Morning, not the post direcly above Ok, I didn't think so. But since your comment directly followed mine,I had to ask. You seemed too grounded to see paranoia everywhere. I was refering to the string for chrissakes. Understood. But yes, there is paranoia in some threads (plain insanity in others :)) , --or more broadly, IMO, there are some quite odd claims by some. Some claim UC/BC/enlightenment, and proclaim special powers from their enlightenment. One proclaims the ability to clearly distinguish energy signitures of posters. So its amusing, if not bizzzare, when he says you and Barry are the same. Nice post the other day Thanks. aboutwhat was the title? Innocence Anyway, you know the one. I have to print that one out and really digest it. It has some points to ponder, but is not tricky to understand, as in complex. Its really about the honest innocence view you had in after your first and each subsequent meditation. Just seeing what is. Not seeing all the stuff in your mind projecting out on to the simple innocence of the world as it is. Ironically, I don't see that innocence of view manifesting in those who proclaim UC/BC. Quite the opposite actually. Huge snakes are seen when there is simple rope, or nothing, there. Yet saints I know and love all have the innocence of view. Over flowing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote: on 9/4/06 9:32 PM, geezerfreak at geezerfreak@ wrote: When did you do your time? Mine was Seelisberg and therebouts...1972 through '76.) Were you a 108? In Tahoe in fall of 72 at 108 course? Nope, not a 108. I was married and I did not do Tahoe. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: MMY defines fully mature Unity as ability to perform all sidhis without benefit of practicing a sutra. I don't believe anyone is in that state today, if ever there was someone. That is one of my points. And there is a long thread on this about a month ago. As some (Judy, for example) pointed out,and I agree, its virtually a truism that to claim MMY/TMO style of enlightenment, one needs to fulfill TMO/MMY criteria. Its so obvious, its hard to believe that some dispute this almost identity statement, like A=A. You must have forgotten my assertion that there is no such thing as MMY/TMO style of enlightenment. Following the logic you are using, SSRS must have achieved SSRS style enlightenment, Mother Meera must have achieved Mother Meera style enlightenment, Amma must have achieved Amma style enlightenment, Maharishi must have achieved Maharishi style enlightenment, and finally Guru Dev must have achieved Guru Dev style enlightenment. Continuing with your logic, each of these saints' respective enlightenments has its exclusive criteria, not shared by any other saint's style of enlightenment. In no case is there a one-to-one correspondence of criteria between say, one saint's enlightenment, and that of another. No saint would be able to ever acknowledge a fellow saint's state of consciousness as enlightened, because according to your logic, there are not any substantial commonalities between one saint's style of enlightenment and another saint's style of enlightenment. So again, I reject your notion that there is such a thing as a MMY/TMO style of enlightenment. It is enlightenment, pure and simple. Whether it is Maharishi, or SSRS, or Mother Meera, or Amma, or Guru Dev, it is just pure and simple enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: MMY defines fully mature Unity as ability to perform all sidhis without benefit of practicing a sutra. I don't believe anyone is in that state today, if ever there was someone. That is one of my points. And there is a long thread on this about a month ago. As some (Judy, for example) pointed out,and I agree, its virtually a truism that to claim MMY/TMO style of enlightenment, h one needs to fulfill TMO/MMY criteria. Its so obvious, its hard to believe that some dispute this almost identity statement, like A=A. You must have forgotten my assertion that there is no such thing as MMY/TMO style of enlightenment. This just gets stranger and stranger. Unless you are playing sematically games, or simply don't get the concept that MMY has defined specific attributes of what he means by enlightenemnt, UC and BC. It would be fascinating to hear you at the mic and tell MMY that there is no such thing as the enlightenemnt, UC or BC that you have been talking about all these years. and then add, but I Jim, am truly enlightened, but its not your non-existent enlightenment. and then add, I was talking to Guru Dev about this the other day. He told me .. and also told me to tell you ... I hope they that exchange on HiDef. Following the logic you are using, SSRS must have achieved SSRS style enlightenment, Mother Meera must have achieved Mother Meera style enlightenment, Amma must have achieved Amma style enlightenment, Maharishi must have achieved Maharishi style enlightenment, and finally Guru Dev must have achieved Guru Dev style enlightenment. No. You are using goofy Jim style logic. Continuing with your logic, No, continuing with your delusions, responding to stuff in your head, not what is on the page. No innocence of view. And you wonder why I don't jump and down at your proclamations. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
the
vision of the infusion of tenderness, doing dhyaana of the
ishhTa
in
the heart, you should remain doing japa of the ishhTa mantra.
YS I 39
yathaabhimata-dhyaanaad vaa (yathaa + abhimata)
FWIW, at least in Sanskrit abhimata and ishhTa (HK: iSTa)
are rather synonymous:
abhimata mfn. longed for , wished , desired ; loved , dear ; allowed
A1s3vGr2. ; supposed , imagined ;
iSTa 1 mfn. (for 2. see s.v.) , sought S3Br. ; wished , desired ;
liked , beloved ; agreeable ; cherished RV. S3Br. [...]
But also:
iSTa 2 mfn. (p.p. fr. %{yaj} ; for 1. %{iSTa4} see col. 2)
sacrificed , worshipped with sacrifices VS. S3Br. Ka1tyS3r. AitBr.
c. ; m. sacrifice Ma1rkP. xiii , 15 ; (%{am}) n. sacrificing ,
sacrifice ; sacred rite , sacrament
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Well put John. Paul, your continuing research on Guru Dev and the origins of TM is wonderful and welcome. I spent a fair amount of time around MMY and yet learned things from your book that had remained mysteries to me for nearly 30 years. For you to be accused of greed is ridiculous! You offered your book free of charge on your website for quite some time. Lately, you've been offering almost daily free insight on Guru Dev and the origin of TM. Ignore the insane ravings of Nablus, the post-menopausal pontifications of the ever nagging Judy, Ageist much? and those like them. (Let's see their research!) For the record, I've never accused Paul of greed, and I'm on the record a number of times as being very appreciative of Paul's research. My only point of contention with Paul is his repeated and, IMHO, ill-founded denigration of MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such) in which he asked that Guru Dev's 'elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad' - for full text go to http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Your oft-repeated insinuation that MMY was trying to hide Guru Dev's teaching because it would reflect poorly on himself still doesn't wash, Paul. MMY has *always* taught the nonsectarian elements of what Guru Dev taught. What he *could not* do was to teach what Guru Dev taught about meditation if he wanted TM to be universally accepted, which is what I was pointing out in the post you quote. Nor could he even have made it available, for the reasons I explained (and which you have not challenged). Can you find a recorded or transcribed talk of Guru Dev--about meditation or anything else--that has no sectarian elements, that would be universally acceptable, even to those who do not believe in God? The Statement issued by: BAL BRAHMACHARI SHRI MAHESH JI. 15th Oct., 1952 'His aim of life, if the life of a realised soul can be said to possess any such aim, is to broadcast the message of the Great Divine light that he has himself realised, the Light that is the Soul of all human beings. Having himself attained the pinnacle of Self development, he aims at transforming the worldly minded people into the Godly minded, and through his inner Divine touch to change the materialistic hearts of iron into spiritual hearts of gold.' 'Shri Shankaracharya Maharaj has clear insight into the mind and the thoughts of the modern age. His teaching and commendments are based on sound reasonings which are quite agreeable to any reasonable thinker. He is a great critic of prejudices and narrowmindedness arising out of irrational love of caste, creed, nationality or any ism. His life is a living proof of the Truth of the Vedas and Shastras. He has opened a new era of renaissance of True Religion. He extends his recognition to anything that is good in any religion. He is accessible to all. Everyone can enjoy and derive benefit from his holy Darshan and elevating discourses.' 'The great Saint of the Himalayas in coming in your midst and in the fitness of the great occasion, I appeal to your good sense to extend your valuable support so that his elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad.' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 Paul, just how far do you think MMY would have gotten in teaching people around the world to meditate if he had been teaching a la Guru Dev? Or, what do you think would have happened if MMY had taught as he did, and these instructions from Guru Dev had been translated and made available through the TMO? How many TMers would have decided they were going to try it Guru Dev's way, and what would have been the result? Especially in the absence of Guru Dev's personal guidance? What was MMY going to say, No, no, don't do what Guru Dev instructed, do what I instruct? You keep suggesting that there's something sinister about MMY not promoting Guru Dev's actual teaching, but that's one of the silliest criticisms I've encountered. MMY obviously *didn't have a choice* if he wanted TM to be universally accepted--or even to *work*, for that matter. The context in which Guru Dev taught was just too different. I suppose MMY could have issued a carefully bowdlerized version of Guru Dev's lectures with all the sectarian Hinduism taken out. What would you have thought of that? What would have been left? Would that have been true to Guru Dev's intent? If you want to bash MMY for going global with TM instead of staying back in India and teaching a few people exactly what Guru Dev taught, ishtas and all--or for teaching anything in the first place-- fine. But if you don't disapprove of his wanting to make TM universal, you really don't
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! Nor did I say you noted that he was speaking at a Hindu temple, did I, Paul? As Paul notes referred to your Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such). You intentionally deceptively snipped the rest of the sentence to make it appear I was misquoting you. To devout Hindus was obviously *my* parenthetical, since you'd said nothing whatsoever about who he was speaking to. If we know for a fact that his audience at the Young Men's Tennis Club in Delhi were not devout Hindus, then of course I'll withdraw the parenthetical. My main point, as you know, was that--as I went on to say, and as you yourself noted--MMY was speaking before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses.] No cigar, Paul; not even a nice try. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such) in which he asked that Guru Dev's 'elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad' - for full text go to http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Your oft-repeated insinuation that MMY was trying to hide Guru Dev's teaching because it would reflect poorly on himself still doesn't wash, Paul. MMY has *always* taught the nonsectarian elements of what Guru Dev taught. What he *could not* do was to teach what Guru Dev taught about meditation if he wanted TM to be universally accepted, which is what I was pointing out in the post you quote. Nor could he even have made it available, for the reasons I explained (and which you have not challenged). Can you find a recorded or transcribed talk of Guru Dev--about meditation or anything else--that has no sectarian elements, that would be universally acceptable, even to those who do not believe in God? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
I snipped it where I did so most of my response would appear on the FFL notice board. You ascribe so many motives to my postings - come on what is YOUR agenda? AND have you EVER actually practised this meditation thing you claim to have done. Are you just one of those anti-TMers who wants to make the Maharishi and the TM method appear so ineffective? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: 'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! Nor did I say you noted that he was speaking at a Hindu temple, did I, Paul? As Paul notes referred to your Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such). You intentionally deceptively snipped the rest of the sentence to make it appear I was misquoting you. To devout Hindus was obviously *my* parenthetical, since you'd said nothing whatsoever about who he was speaking to. If we know for a fact that his audience at the Young Men's Tennis Club in Delhi were not devout Hindus, then of course I'll withdraw the parenthetical. My main point, as you know, was that--as I went on to say, and as you yourself noted--MMY was speaking before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses.] No cigar, Paul; not even a nice try. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such) in which he asked that Guru Dev's 'elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad' - for full text go to http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Your oft-repeated insinuation that MMY was trying to hide Guru Dev's teaching because it would reflect poorly on himself still doesn't wash, Paul. MMY has *always* taught the nonsectarian elements of what Guru Dev taught. What he *could not* do was to teach what Guru Dev taught about meditation if he wanted TM to be universally accepted, which is what I was pointing out in the post you quote. Nor could he even have made it available, for the reasons I explained (and which you have not challenged). Can you find a recorded or transcribed talk of Guru Dev--about meditation or anything else--that has no sectarian elements, that would be universally acceptable, even to those who do not believe in God? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! A message from Judy: Right you are Paul! I'm sorry for misquoting you. Please understand, I've been a little out of sorts for the past few years. You see, my arse has been glued in place on my internet throne while I bang out non-stop posts demeaning the intelligence of others. It's made me quite cranky believe you me! Anyhoo, forgive me. Keep up the good work and have a nice day. Now, I'm going to try and pry myself out of my tuffet, go outside and enjoy daylight for the first time. It's one small step towards finding a life for myself. Goodbye and good luck everybody. I love you all! authfriend Judy Stein To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I snipped it where I did so most of my response would appear on the FFL notice board. You snipped it to make it appear I had misquoted you. If it had been an honest mistake, you wouldn't have tried to put over a flimsy excuse. You ascribe so many motives to my postings - come on what is YOUR agenda? My agenda is fairness, honesty, and accuracy. You were none of the three in the post I was commenting on, nor the one I'm responding to now. AND have you EVER actually practised this meditation thing you claim to have done. ??? Are you just one of those anti-TMers who wants to make the Maharishi and the TM method appear so ineffective? Notice that Paul hasn't addressed any of my points. He rarely addresses *anybody's* points if they're at all challenging. He attempts to change the subject, or he responds with a non sequitur. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: 'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! Nor did I say you noted that he was speaking at a Hindu temple, did I, Paul? As Paul notes referred to your Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such). You intentionally deceptively snipped the rest of the sentence to make it appear I was misquoting you. To devout Hindus was obviously *my* parenthetical, since you'd said nothing whatsoever about who he was speaking to. If we know for a fact that his audience at the Young Men's Tennis Club in Delhi were not devout Hindus, then of course I'll withdraw the parenthetical. My main point, as you know, was that--as I went on to say, and as you yourself noted--MMY was speaking before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses.] No cigar, Paul; not even a nice try. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such) in which he asked that Guru Dev's 'elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad' - for full text go to http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Your oft-repeated insinuation that MMY was trying to hide Guru Dev's teaching because it would reflect poorly on himself still doesn't wash, Paul. MMY has *always* taught the nonsectarian elements of what Guru Dev taught. What he *could not* do was to teach what Guru Dev taught about meditation if he wanted TM to be universally accepted, which is what I was pointing out in the post you quote. Nor could he even have made it available, for the reasons I explained (and which you have not challenged). Can you find a recorded or transcribed talk of Guru Dev--about meditation or anything else--that has no sectarian elements, that would be universally acceptable, even to those who do not believe in God? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: 'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! A message from Judy: Right you are Paul! I'm sorry for misquoting you. You have it backwards. Paul misquoted *me*. Sorry you have such difficulties with reading comprehension. Please understand, I've been a little out of sorts for the past few years. You see, my arse has been glued in place on my internet throne while I bang out non-stop posts demeaning the intelligence of others. It's made me quite cranky believe you me! Anyhoo, forgive me. Keep up the good work and have a nice day. Now, I'm going to try and pry myself out of my tuffet, go outside and enjoy daylight for the first time. It's one small step towards finding a life for myself. Goodbye and good luck everybody. I love you all! authfriend Judy Stein To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Pathetic! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: I snipped it where I did so most of my response would appear on the FFL notice board. You snipped it to make it appear I had misquoted you. If it had been an honest mistake, you wouldn't have tried to put over a flimsy excuse. You ascribe so many motives to my postings - come on what is YOUR agenda? My agenda is fairness, honesty, and accuracy. You were none of the three in the post I was commenting on, nor the one I'm responding to now. AND have you EVER actually practised this meditation thing you claim to have done. ??? Are you just one of those anti-TMers who wants to make the Maharishi and the TM method appear so ineffective? Notice that Paul hasn't addressed any of my points. He rarely addresses *anybody's* points if they're at all challenging. He attempts to change the subject, or he responds with a non sequitur. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: 'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! Nor did I say you noted that he was speaking at a Hindu temple, did I, Paul? As Paul notes referred to your Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such). You intentionally deceptively snipped the rest of the sentence to make it appear I was misquoting you. To devout Hindus was obviously *my* parenthetical, since you'd said nothing whatsoever about who he was speaking to. If we know for a fact that his audience at the Young Men's Tennis Club in Delhi were not devout Hindus, then of course I'll withdraw the parenthetical. My main point, as you know, was that--as I went on to say, and as you yourself noted--MMY was speaking before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses.] No cigar, Paul; not even a nice try. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such) in which he asked that Guru Dev's 'elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad' - for full text go to http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Your oft-repeated insinuation that MMY was trying to hide Guru Dev's teaching because it would reflect poorly on himself still doesn't wash, Paul. MMY has *always* taught the nonsectarian elements of what Guru Dev taught. What he *could not* do was to teach what Guru Dev taught about meditation if he wanted TM to be universally accepted, which is what I was pointing out in the post you quote. Nor could he even have made it available, for the reasons I explained (and which you have not challenged). Can you find a recorded or transcribed talk of Guru Dev--about meditation or anything else--that has no sectarian elements, that would be universally acceptable, even to those who do not believe in God? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
I accept your apology unreservedly! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: 'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! A message from Judy: Right you are Paul! I'm sorry for misquoting you. Please understand, I've been a little out of sorts for the past few years. You see, my arse has been glued in place on my internet throne while I bang out non-stop posts demeaning the intelligence of others. It's made me quite cranky believe you me! Anyhoo, forgive me. Keep up the good work and have a nice day. Now, I'm going to try and pry myself out of my tuffet, go outside and enjoy daylight for the first time. It's one small step towards finding a life for myself. Goodbye and good luck everybody. I love you all! authfriend Judy Stein To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pathetic! Yes, I'd say pathetic is just the word to describe you. Your deceptive snippage had nothing to do with getting most of your response on the FFL notice board. It was the text of your *post* that attempted to make it appear that I had misquoted you. Let's look at it again: snip --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: 'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! And here's what I *actually* wrote: As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Nowhere did I say you had said it was a Hindu temple. And as I've already pointed out, (to devout Hindus) was obviously *my* parenthetical, since you had said nothing whatsoever about who he was speaking to. Pathetic indeed. You couldn't address anything I wrote, so you tried to make it appear I had misquoted you and responded instead with feigned outrage to the misquote you had yourself created. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
You live to argue, pointlessly. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Pathetic! Yes, I'd say pathetic is just the word to describe you. Your deceptive snippage had nothing to do with getting most of your response on the FFL notice board. It was the text of your *post* that attempted to make it appear that I had misquoted you. Let's look at it again: snip --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: 'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! And here's what I *actually* wrote: As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Nowhere did I say you had said it was a Hindu temple. And as I've already pointed out, (to devout Hindus) was obviously *my* parenthetical, since you had said nothing whatsoever about who he was speaking to. Pathetic indeed. You couldn't address anything I wrote, so you tried to make it appear I had misquoted you and responded instead with feigned outrage to the misquote you had yourself created. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You live to argue, pointlessly. And you live to deceive. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Pathetic! Yes, I'd say pathetic is just the word to describe you. Your deceptive snippage had nothing to do with getting most of your response on the FFL notice board. It was the text of your *post* that attempted to make it appear that I had misquoted you. Let's look at it again: snip --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: 'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! And here's what I *actually* wrote: As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Nowhere did I say you had said it was a Hindu temple. And as I've already pointed out, (to devout Hindus) was obviously *my* parenthetical, since you had said nothing whatsoever about who he was speaking to. Pathetic indeed. You couldn't address anything I wrote, so you tried to make it appear I had misquoted you and responded instead with feigned outrage to the misquote you had yourself created. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: You live to argue, pointlessly. And you live to deceive. Hi kids, Judy here again. Oh dear, I had the best intentions and wanted so much to remove my rear end from my internet thrown and go outside today. I'm afraid my evil old self took over and I've gone all cunty again! Honestly, I really do want to be a better person, a loving, non-judgemental person. Please bear with me as I wrestle with my inner demons. I apologize for the relentless bitchiness. I'm hoping someday to be a friend to all, not just authors. (Although I'm superior to 99.% of them too.) Yours in eternal hubris, authfriend, YOUR friend, Judy Stein To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus)..Snip.' I noted no such thing! The speech was made at the Young Man's Tennis Club, Queen's Gardens, in Delhi, not at a Hindu temple! So, are you objecting to the word devout or the word Hindu? Do you honestly believe that the majority of his audience was Jewish? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Hi, folks, geezerfreak here. I know I swore, twice, that I wasn't going to read or respond to any more of Judy's posts, but I just can't seem to help myself. Why am I so obsessed with someone I've declared irrelevant? It doesn't make any sense, and the cognitive dissonance is driving me crazy. And these *fantasies* I keep having, about her sitting in front of her computer and never leaving the house...I mean, for all I know, she may live a block from the ocean and go out for lovely strolls along the boardwalk, breathing in the fresh salt air and enjoying the play of the sun on the waves, whenever she feels like it during the day. Please, help me stop humiliating myself! Yours in desperation, geezerfreak (who doesn't even have the guts to sign his own name...) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: You live to argue, pointlessly. And you live to deceive. Hi kids, Judy here again. Oh dear, I had the best intentions and wanted so much to remove my rear end from my internet thrown and go outside today. I'm afraid my evil old self took over and I've gone all cunty again! Honestly, I really do want to be a better person, a loving, non-judgemental person. Please bear with me as I wrestle with my inner demons. I apologize for the relentless bitchiness. I'm hoping someday to be a friend to all, not just authors. (Although I'm superior to 99.% of them too.) Yours in eternal hubris, authfriend, YOUR friend, Judy Stein To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Yours in desperation, geezerfreak (who doesn't even have the guts to sign his own name...) OK Judy, time to come clean. The name's Bevan Morris. Perhaps you've heard of me? I'd really appreciate you're curbing these assholic posts of yours. They annoy Maharishi no end. First time I've heard him call someone a twat in years! (He does appreciate your knowing that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes Barry2, in this context that must be what he meant and I have ammended the translation to reflect this view: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm#Gurudevmeditation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 At daybreak and in the day do that fit puja and dhyaana etc, but at night before sleeping you should certainly do 10-15 minutes of japa of the 'ishhTa mantra kaa japa' and 'dhyaana' of the 'ishhTa muurti' That reminded me of YS I 39: yathaabhimata-dhyaanaad vaa (yathaa+abhimata: as desired) IMO, many translators seem to think that as desired refers to the method or style or whatever, of meditation. But according to Bhojadeva's comment on that suutra yathaabhimata refers to the object of meditation, whether outer or inner: yathaabhimatavastuni baahye candraadaavaabhyantare naaDiicakraadau vaa bhaavyamaane cetaH sthiriibhavati A desperate attemp at translation: By dwelling (??bhaavyamaane) on an as-desired-object (yathaabhimata- vastuni) [whether] outer (baahye) [like] Moon, etc (candraadau) or (vaa) inner (aabhyantare) [like] naaDiis or cakras, etc (naaDii- cakraadau) mind (cetaH) becomes firm [steady?] (sthiriibhavati). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Yes Barry2, in this context that must be what he meant and I have ammended the translation to reflect this view: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm#Gurudevmeditation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 At daybreak and in the day do that fit puja and dhyaana etc, but at night before sleeping you should certainly do 10-15 minutes of japa of the 'ishhTa mantra kaa japa' and 'dhyaana' of the 'ishhTa muurti' That reminded me of YS I 39: yathaabhimata-dhyaanaad vaa (yathaa+abhimata: as desired) IMO, many translators seem to think that as desired refers to the method or style or whatever, of meditation. But according to Bhojadeva's comment on that suutra yathaabhimata refers to the object of meditation, whether outer or inner: yathaabhimatavastuni baahye candraadaavaabhyantare naaDiicakraadau vaa bhaavyamaane cetaH sthiriibhavati A desperate attemp at translation: By dwelling (??bhaavyamaane) on an as-desired-object (yathaabhimata- vastuni) [whether] outer (baahye) [like] Moon, etc (candraadau) or (vaa) inner (aabhyantare) [like] naaDiis or cakras, etc (naaDii- cakraadau) mind (cetaH) becomes firm [steady?] (sthiriibhavati). An object that attracts your attention, making it effortless to turn inward. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such) in which he asked that Guru Dev's 'elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad' - for full text go to http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm The Statement issued by: BAL BRAHMACHARI SHRI MAHESH JI. 15th Oct., 1952 'His aim of life, if the life of a realised soul can be said to possess any such aim, is to broadcast the message of the Great Divine light that he has himself realised, the Light that is the Soul of all human beings. Having himself attained the pinnacle of Self development, he aims at transforming the worldly minded people into the Godly minded, and through his inner Divine touch to change the materialistic hearts of iron into spiritual hearts of gold.' 'Shri Shankaracharya Maharaj has clear insight into the mind and the thoughts of the modern age. His teaching and commendments are based on sound reasonings which are quite agreeable to any reasonable thinker. He is a great critic of prejudices and narrowmindedness arising out of irrational love of caste, creed, nationality or any ism. His life is a living proof of the Truth of the Vedas and Shastras. He has opened a new era of renaissance of True Religion. He extends his recognition to anything that is good in any religion. He is accessible to all. Everyone can enjoy and derive benefit from his holy Darshan and elevating discourses.' 'The great Saint of the Himalayas in coming in your midst and in the fitness of the great occasion, I appeal to your good sense to extend your valuable support so that his elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad.' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 Paul, just how far do you think MMY would have gotten in teaching people around the world to meditate if he had been teaching a la Guru Dev? Or, what do you think would have happened if MMY had taught as he did, and these instructions from Guru Dev had been translated and made available through the TMO? How many TMers would have decided they were going to try it Guru Dev's way, and what would have been the result? Especially in the absence of Guru Dev's personal guidance? What was MMY going to say, No, no, don't do what Guru Dev instructed, do what I instruct? You keep suggesting that there's something sinister about MMY not promoting Guru Dev's actual teaching, but that's one of the silliest criticisms I've encountered. MMY obviously *didn't have a choice* if he wanted TM to be universally accepted--or even to *work*, for that matter. The context in which Guru Dev taught was just too different. I suppose MMY could have issued a carefully bowdlerized version of Guru Dev's lectures with all the sectarian Hinduism taken out. What would you have thought of that? What would have been left? Would that have been true to Guru Dev's intent? If you want to bash MMY for going global with TM instead of staying back in India and teaching a few people exactly what Guru Dev taught, ishtas and all--or for teaching anything in the first place-- fine. But if you don't disapprove of his wanting to make TM universal, you really don't have a leg to stand on in suggesting that he is dishonoring Guru Dev by not promoting his original teachings. That just makes no sense at all. At daybreak and in the day do that fit puja and dhyaana etc, but at night before sleeping you should certainly do 10-15 minutes of japa of the 'ishhTa mantra kaa japa' and 'dhyaana' of the 'ishhTa muurti' (desired form). From this 'upaasanaa' (sitting near / devout meditation) quick advancement occurs. In darkness you should sit with eye closed and do japa of the mantra, and in the same way with eye closed you should do dhyana of the ishhTa with the mind. Not on their whole body, you should look on the foot or on the mouth area of the head, seeing the full of compassion of our favourite ishhTa, looking infused with tenderness. The vision of the ishhTa becomes one's own desire. You should look not envisage the eye of the ishhTa to be closed. This manner of having seen the vision of the infusion of tenderness, doing dhyaana of the ishhTa in the heart, you should remain doing japa of the ishhTa mantra. From this, the image of the ishhTa will grow and provided that the mind gets strengthened and held with the ishhTa then in the end will stay in this condition. On the strength of this you should go across the ocean of samsaara. ['Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita'
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such) in which he asked that Guru Dev's 'elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad' - for full text go to http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Your oft-repeated insinuation that MMY was trying to hide Guru Dev's teaching because it would reflect poorly on himself still doesn't wash, Paul. MMY has *always* taught the nonsectarian elements of what Guru Dev taught. What he *could not* do was to teach what Guru Dev taught about meditation if he wanted TM to be universally accepted, which is what I was pointing out in the post you quote. Nor could he even have made it available, for the reasons I explained (and which you have not challenged). Can you find a recorded or transcribed talk of Guru Dev--about meditation or anything else--that has no sectarian elements, that would be universally acceptable, even to those who do not believe in God? The Statement issued by: BAL BRAHMACHARI SHRI MAHESH JI. 15th Oct., 1952 'His aim of life, if the life of a realised soul can be said to possess any such aim, is to broadcast the message of the Great Divine light that he has himself realised, the Light that is the Soul of all human beings. Having himself attained the pinnacle of Self development, he aims at transforming the worldly minded people into the Godly minded, and through his inner Divine touch to change the materialistic hearts of iron into spiritual hearts of gold.' 'Shri Shankaracharya Maharaj has clear insight into the mind and the thoughts of the modern age. His teaching and commendments are based on sound reasonings which are quite agreeable to any reasonable thinker. He is a great critic of prejudices and narrowmindedness arising out of irrational love of caste, creed, nationality or any ism. His life is a living proof of the Truth of the Vedas and Shastras. He has opened a new era of renaissance of True Religion. He extends his recognition to anything that is good in any religion. He is accessible to all. Everyone can enjoy and derive benefit from his holy Darshan and elevating discourses.' 'The great Saint of the Himalayas in coming in your midst and in the fitness of the great occasion, I appeal to your good sense to extend your valuable support so that his elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad.' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 Paul, just how far do you think MMY would have gotten in teaching people around the world to meditate if he had been teaching a la Guru Dev? Or, what do you think would have happened if MMY had taught as he did, and these instructions from Guru Dev had been translated and made available through the TMO? How many TMers would have decided they were going to try it Guru Dev's way, and what would have been the result? Especially in the absence of Guru Dev's personal guidance? What was MMY going to say, No, no, don't do what Guru Dev instructed, do what I instruct? You keep suggesting that there's something sinister about MMY not promoting Guru Dev's actual teaching, but that's one of the silliest criticisms I've encountered. MMY obviously *didn't have a choice* if he wanted TM to be universally accepted--or even to *work*, for that matter. The context in which Guru Dev taught was just too different. I suppose MMY could have issued a carefully bowdlerized version of Guru Dev's lectures with all the sectarian Hinduism taken out. What would you have thought of that? What would have been left? Would that have been true to Guru Dev's intent? If you want to bash MMY for going global with TM instead of staying back in India and teaching a few people exactly what Guru Dev taught, ishtas and all--or for teaching anything in the first place-- fine. But if you don't disapprove of his wanting to make TM universal, you really don't have a leg to stand on in suggesting that he is dishonoring Guru Dev by not promoting his original teachings. That just makes no sense at all. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Great find Paul! It also contains the first money shot for MMY. We can see where her perfected his formula. 'The great Saint of the Himalayas in coming in your midst and in the fitness of the great occasion, I appeal to your good sense to extend your valuable support so that his elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad.' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such) in which he asked that Guru Dev's 'elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad' - for full text go to http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm The Statement issued by: BAL BRAHMACHARI SHRI MAHESH JI. 15th Oct., 1952 'His aim of life, if the life of a realised soul can be said to possess any such aim, is to broadcast the message of the Great Divine light that he has himself realised, the Light that is the Soul of all human beings. Having himself attained the pinnacle of Self development, he aims at transforming the worldly minded people into the Godly minded, and through his inner Divine touch to change the materialistic hearts of iron into spiritual hearts of gold.' 'Shri Shankaracharya Maharaj has clear insight into the mind and the thoughts of the modern age. His teaching and commendments are based on sound reasonings which are quite agreeable to any reasonable thinker. He is a great critic of prejudices and narrowmindedness arising out of irrational love of caste, creed, nationality or any ism. His life is a living proof of the Truth of the Vedas and Shastras. He has opened a new era of renaissance of True Religion. He extends his recognition to anything that is good in any religion. He is accessible to all. Everyone can enjoy and derive benefit from his holy Darshan and elevating discourses.' 'The great Saint of the Himalayas in coming in your midst and in the fitness of the great occasion, I appeal to your good sense to extend your valuable support so that his elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad.' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 Paul, just how far do you think MMY would have gotten in teaching people around the world to meditate if he had been teaching a la Guru Dev? Or, what do you think would have happened if MMY had taught as he did, and these instructions from Guru Dev had been translated and made available through the TMO? How many TMers would have decided they were going to try it Guru Dev's way, and what would have been the result? Especially in the absence of Guru Dev's personal guidance? What was MMY going to say, No, no, don't do what Guru Dev instructed, do what I instruct? You keep suggesting that there's something sinister about MMY not promoting Guru Dev's actual teaching, but that's one of the silliest criticisms I've encountered. MMY obviously *didn't have a choice* if he wanted TM to be universally accepted--or even to *work*, for that matter. The context in which Guru Dev taught was just too different. I suppose MMY could have issued a carefully bowdlerized version of Guru Dev's lectures with all the sectarian Hinduism taken out. What would you have thought of that? What would have been left? Would that have been true to Guru Dev's intent? If you want to bash MMY for going global with TM instead of staying back in India and teaching a few people exactly what Guru Dev taught, ishtas and all--or for teaching anything in the first place-- fine. But if you don't disapprove of his wanting to make TM universal, you really don't have a leg to stand on in suggesting that he is dishonoring Guru Dev by not promoting his original teachings. That just makes no sense at all. At daybreak and in the day do that fit puja and dhyaana etc, but at night before sleeping you should certainly do 10-15 minutes of japa of the 'ishhTa mantra kaa japa' and 'dhyaana' of the 'ishhTa muurti' (desired form). From this 'upaasanaa' (sitting near / devout meditation) quick advancement occurs. In darkness you should sit with eye closed and do japa of the mantra, and in the same way with eye closed you should do dhyana of the ishhTa with the mind. Not on their whole body, you should look on the foot or on the mouth area of the head, seeing the full of compassion of our favourite ishhTa, looking infused with tenderness. The vision of the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such) in which he asked that Guru Dev's 'elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad' - for full text go to http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Your oft-repeated insinuation that MMY was trying to hide Guru Dev's teaching because it would reflect poorly on himself still doesn't wash, Paul. MMY has *always* taught the nonsectarian elements of what Guru Dev taught. What he *could not* do was to teach what Guru Dev taught about meditation if he wanted TM to be universally accepted, which is what I was pointing out in the post you quote. Nor could he even have made it available, for the reasons I explained (and which you have not challenged). Can you find a recorded or transcribed talk of Guru Dev--about meditation or anything else--that has no sectarian elements, that would be universally acceptable, even to those who do not believe in God? Please; the agenda of this Paul Mason fellow is not one of knowledge or rightcousness. It belongs in the cellar of greed - and what not. Sadly I think that the road he has choosen will bring him much sorrow. Nab - You label Paul's book writing and publishing unrighteous and in the 'cellar of greed', bad karma etc. How do you characterize multimillion dollar fund raising for pundits that never arrive, million dollar courses, multimillion dollar real estate speculation and deals, raams, foundations, world peace bonds, $5,000+ yagya's, banks, spa's, $3,000,000 peace palaces and $2500 initiation fees? I'm curious why pulishing a book or two is greedy and all the above stuff isn't? JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such) in which he asked that Guru Dev's 'elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad' - for full text go to http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Your oft-repeated insinuation that MMY was trying to hide Guru Dev's teaching because it would reflect poorly on himself still doesn't wash, Paul. MMY has *always* taught the nonsectarian elements of what Guru Dev taught. What he *could not* do was to teach what Guru Dev taught about meditation if he wanted TM to be universally accepted, which is what I was pointing out in the post you quote. Nor could he even have made it available, for the reasons I explained (and which you have not challenged). Can you find a recorded or transcribed talk of Guru Dev--about meditation or anything else--that has no sectarian elements, that would be universally acceptable, even to those who do not believe in God? Please; the agenda of this Paul Mason fellow is not one of knowledge or rightcousness. It belongs in the cellar of greed - and what not. Sadly I think that the road he has choosen will bring him much sorrow. Nab - You label Paul's book writing and publishing unrighteous and in the 'cellar of greed', bad karma etc. How do you characterize multimillion dollar fund raising for pundits that never arrive, million dollar courses, multimillion dollar real estate speculation and deals, raams, foundations, world peace bonds, $5,000+ yagya's, banks, spa's, $3,000,000 peace palaces and $2500 initiation fees? I'm curious why pulishing a book or two is greedy and all the above stuff isn't? JohnY Well put John. Paul, your continuing research on Guru Dev and the origins of TM is wonderful and welcome. I spent a fair amount of time around MMY and yet learned things from your book that had remained mysteries to me for nearly 30 years. For you to be accused of greed is ridiculous! You offered your book free of charge on your website for quite some time. Lately, you've been offering almost daily free insight on Guru Dev and the origin of TM. Ignore the insane ravings of Nablus, the post-menopausal pontifications of the ever nagging Judy, and those like them. (Let's see their research!) Know that your work is greatly appreciated! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Excerpts of speech made by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (before he was known as such) in which he asked that Guru Dev's 'elevating discourses may reach the masses in every nook and corner of our country and abroad' - for full text go to http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/Maheshspeech.htm As Paul notes, MMY was speaking (to devout Hindus) before he had conceived the idea of a nonsectarian meditation technique for the masses. Your oft-repeated insinuation that MMY was trying to hide Guru Dev's teaching because it would reflect poorly on himself still doesn't wash, Paul. MMY has *always* taught the nonsectarian elements of what Guru Dev taught. What he *could not* do was to teach what Guru Dev taught about meditation if he wanted TM to be universally accepted, which is what I was pointing out in the post you quote. Nor could he even have made it available, for the reasons I explained (and which you have not challenged). Can you find a recorded or transcribed talk of Guru Dev--about meditation or anything else--that has no sectarian elements, that would be universally acceptable, even to those who do not believe in God? Please; the agenda of this Paul Mason fellow is not one of knowledge or rightcousness. It belongs in the cellar of greed - and what not. Sadly I think that the road he has choosen will bring him much sorrow. Nab - You label Paul's book writing and publishing unrighteous and in the 'cellar of greed', bad karma etc. How do you characterize multimillion dollar fund raising for pundits that never arrive, million dollar courses, multimillion dollar real estate speculation and deals, raams, foundations, world peace bonds, $5,000+ yagya's, banks, spa's, $3,000,000 peace palaces and $2500 initiation fees? I'm curious why pulishing a book or two is greedy and all the above stuff isn't? JohnY Well put John. Paul, Where's George and Ringo? your continuing research on Guru Dev and the origins of TM is wonderful and welcome. I spent a fair amount of time around MMY and yet learned things from your book that had remained mysteries to me for nearly 30 years. For you to be accused of greed is ridiculous! You offered your book free of charge on your website for quite some time. Lately, you've been offering almost daily free insight on Guru Dev and the origin of TM. Ignore the insane ravings of Nablus, the post-menopausal pontifications of the ever nagging Judy, and those like them. (Let's see their research!) Know that your work is greatly appreciated! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
I have refined the translation a little, and will continue to do so as inspiration arises. Hopefully, other translations will emerge soon which will be help get the meanings clearer:- http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm#Gurudevmeditation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Premanand Paul, Thank you for another enormous contribution. Your site on Guru Dev is tremendous. And this teaching of his (below) hits the spot. Jai Guru Dev ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: Yes Barry2, in this context that must be what he meant and I have ammended the translation to reflect this view: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm#Gurudevmeditation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 At daybreak and in the day do that fit puja and dhyaana etc, but at night before sleeping you should certainly do 10-15 minutes of japa of the 'ishhTa mantra kaa japa' and 'dhyaana' of the 'ishhTa muurti' (desired form). From this 'upaasanaa' (sitting near / devout meditation) quick advancement occurs. In darkness you should sit with eye closed and do japa of the mantra, and in the same way with eye closed you should do dhyana of the ishhTa with the mind. Not on their whole body, you should look on the foot or on the mouth area of the head, seeing the full of compassion of our favourite ishhTa, looking infused with tenderness. The vision of the ishhTa becomes one's own desire. You should look not envisage the eye of the ishhTa to be closed. This manner of having seen the vision of the infusion of tenderness, doing dhyaana of the ishhTa in the heart, you should remain doing japa of the ishhTa mantra. From this, the image of the ishhTa will grow and provided that the mind gets strengthened and held with the ishhTa then in the end will stay in this condition. On the strength of this you should go across the ocean of samsaara. ['Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita' kaNa 48 of 108] More: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm It's important to remember that India being close to the equator does not have the varying sunrise and sunset times nor Daylight Saving Time that more northerly countries have. Hence many gurus will modify the meditation after sunset to meditating in a dark room. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 Paul, just how far do you think MMY would have gotten in teaching people around the world to meditate if he had been teaching a la Guru Dev? Or, what do you think would have happened if MMY had taught as he did, and these instructions from Guru Dev had been translated and made available through the TMO? How many TMers would have decided they were going to try it Guru Dev's way, and what would have been the result? Especially in the absence of Guru Dev's personal guidance? What was MMY going to say, No, no, don't do what Guru Dev instructed, do what I instruct? You keep suggesting that there's something sinister about MMY not promoting Guru Dev's actual teaching, but that's one of the silliest criticisms I've encountered. MMY obviously *didn't have a choice* if he wanted TM to be universally accepted--or even to *work*, for that matter. The context in which Guru Dev taught was just too different. I suppose MMY could have issued a carefully bowdlerized version of Guru Dev's lectures with all the sectarian Hinduism taken out. What would you have thought of that? What would have been left? Would that have been true to Guru Dev's intent? If you want to bash MMY for going global with TM instead of staying back in India and teaching a few people exactly what Guru Dev taught, ishtas and all--or for teaching anything in the first place-- fine. But if you don't disapprove of his wanting to make TM universal, you really don't have a leg to stand on in suggesting that he is dishonoring Guru Dev by not promoting his original teachings. That just makes no sense at all. Bingo ! That Paul Mason fellow has one major agenda; to make money To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip But if you don't disapprove of his wanting to make TM universal, you really don't have a leg to stand on in suggesting that he is dishonoring Guru Dev by not promoting his original teachings. That just makes no sense at all. Bingo ! That Paul Mason fellow has one major agenda; to make money For the record, that isn't what I'm suggesting. There are other motivations than money for trying to take down MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip But if you don't disapprove of his wanting to make TM universal, you really don't have a leg to stand on in suggesting that he is dishonoring Guru Dev by not promoting his original teachings. That just makes no sense at all. Bingo ! That Paul Mason fellow has one major agenda; to make money For the record, that isn't what I'm suggesting. There are other motivations than money for trying to take down MMY. Ofcourse. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
That was just a side comment or point of information. I didn't intend for you to alter the translation. I would be surprised if Brahmanand Saraswati was aware of the variation of sunrise and sunsets in more northerly countries unless he also practiced astrology and was working on charts from those areas. Given that question however he may have well responded to make the room dark. Paul Mason wrote: Yes Barry2, in this context that must be what he meant and I have ammended the translation to reflect this view: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm#Gurudevmeditation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 At daybreak and in the day do that fit puja and dhyaana etc, but at night before sleeping you should certainly do 10-15 minutes of japa of the 'ishhTa mantra kaa japa' and 'dhyaana' of the 'ishhTa muurti' (desired form). From this 'upaasanaa' (sitting near / devout meditation) quick advancement occurs. In darkness you should sit with eye closed and do japa of the mantra, and in the same way with eye closed you should do dhyana of the ishhTa with the mind. Not on their whole body, you should look on the foot or on the mouth area of the head, seeing the full of compassion of our favourite ishhTa, looking infused with tenderness. The vision of the ishhTa becomes one's own desire. You should look not envisage the eye of the ishhTa to be closed. This manner of having seen the vision of the infusion of tenderness, doing dhyaana of the ishhTa in the heart, you should remain doing japa of the ishhTa mantra. From this, the image of the ishhTa will grow and provided that the mind gets strengthened and held with the ishhTa then in the end will stay in this condition. On the strength of this you should go across the ocean of samsaara. ['Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita' kaNa 48 of 108] More: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm It's important to remember that India being close to the equator does not have the varying sunrise and sunset times nor Daylight Saving Time that more northerly countries have. Hence many gurus will modify the meditation after sunset to meditating in a dark room. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Revised copy of this satsang at: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm#Gurudevmeditation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 At daybreak and in the day do that fit puja and dhyaana etc, but at night before sleeping you should certainly do 10-15 minutes of japa of the 'ishhTa mantra kaa japa' and 'dhyaana' of the 'ishhTa muurti' (desired form). From this 'upaasanaa' (sitting near / devout meditation) quick advancement occurs. In darkness you should sit with eye closed and do japa of the mantra, and in the same way with eye closed you should do dhyana of the ishhTa with the mind. Not on their whole body, you should look on the foot or on the mouth area of the head, seeing the full of compassion of our favourite ishhTa, looking infused with tenderness. The vision of the ishhTa becomes one's own desire. You should look not envisage the eye of the ishhTa to be closed. This manner of having seen the vision of the infusion of tenderness, doing dhyaana of the ishhTa in the heart, you should remain doing japa of the ishhTa mantra. From this, the image of the ishhTa will grow and provided that the mind gets strengthened and held with the ishhTa then in the end will stay in this condition. On the strength of this you should go across the ocean of samsaara. ['Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita' kaNa 48 of 108] More: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Original Hindi text of satsang 48 of 108 in Itrans format:-
praataHkaala aura dina meM jo puujana , japa , dhyaana , aadi karate
ho so to Thiika hii hai , kintu raatri meM sone se pahale 10 - 15
minaTa apane ishhTa maMtra kaa japa aura ishhTa muurti kaa dhyaana
avashya karanaa chaahiye . isase upaasanaa meM jaldii unnati hotii
hai .
a.Ndhere meM aa.Nkha banda karake baiTha jaanaa chaahiye aura maMtra
kaa japa tathaa netra baMdakara mana se apane ishhTa kaa dhyaana
karanaa chaahiye . unake sampuurNa shariira para nahiiM , charaNa meM
yaa mastaka para ( mukha - maMDala para ) dekhanaa chaahiye ki
hamaare ishhTadeva hamaarii aura karuNaa bharii , dayaabharii
dR^ishhTi se dekha rahe haiM . ishhTa kii dR^ishhTi hii apane kaama
kii hotii hai . apane ishhTa ko aaMkha banda ki{}e hu{}e nahiiM
dekhanaa chaahiye . isa prakaara apanii ora dayaabharii dR^ishhTi se
dekhate hu{}e ishhTa kaa hadaya meM dhyaana karate hu{}e ishhTa
maMtra kaa japa karate rahanaa chaahiye . isase ishhTa ke prati
dR^i.Dhataa ba.Dhegii aura yadi mana ne dR^i.Dhataa ke saatha ishhTa
ko paka.Da liyaa to anta meM yahii nishhThaakaama aayegii . isii ke
bala para saMsaara - saagara se paara ho jaa{}oge .
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Revised copy of this satsang at:
http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm#Gurudevmeditation
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason
premanandpaul@ wrote:
Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few
words about when and how to meditate.
Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006
At daybreak and in the day do that fit puja and dhyaana etc, but
at
night before sleeping you should certainly do 10-15 minutes of
japa
of the 'ishhTa mantra kaa japa' and 'dhyaana' of the 'ishhTa
muurti'
(desired form). From this 'upaasanaa' (sitting near / devout
meditation) quick advancement occurs.
In darkness you should sit with eye closed and do japa of the
mantra,
and in the same way with eye closed you should do dhyana of the
ishhTa with the mind. Not on their whole body, you should look on
the
foot or on the mouth area of the head, seeing the full of
compassion
of our favourite ishhTa, looking infused with tenderness. The
vision
of the ishhTa becomes one's own desire. You should look not
envisage
the eye of the ishhTa to be closed. This manner of having seen
the
vision of the infusion of tenderness, doing dhyaana of the ishhTa
in
the heart, you should remain doing japa of the ishhTa mantra.
From
this, the image of the ishhTa will grow and provided that the
mind
gets strengthened and held with the ishhTa then in the end will
stay
in this condition. On the strength of this you should go across
the
ocean of samsaara.
['Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita' kaNa 48 of 108]
More: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm
To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
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and click 'Join This Group!'
Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Yes Barry2, in this context that must be what he meant and I have ammended the translation to reflect this view: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm#Gurudevmeditation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 At daybreak and in the day do that fit puja and dhyaana etc, but at night before sleeping you should certainly do 10-15 minutes of japa of the 'ishhTa mantra kaa japa' and 'dhyaana' of the 'ishhTa muurti' (desired form). From this 'upaasanaa' (sitting near / devout meditation) quick advancement occurs. In darkness you should sit with eye closed and do japa of the mantra, and in the same way with eye closed you should do dhyana of the ishhTa with the mind. Not on their whole body, you should look on the foot or on the mouth area of the head, seeing the full of compassion of our favourite ishhTa, looking infused with tenderness. The vision of the ishhTa becomes one's own desire. You should look not envisage the eye of the ishhTa to be closed. This manner of having seen the vision of the infusion of tenderness, doing dhyaana of the ishhTa in the heart, you should remain doing japa of the ishhTa mantra. From this, the image of the ishhTa will grow and provided that the mind gets strengthened and held with the ishhTa then in the end will stay in this condition. On the strength of this you should go across the ocean of samsaara. ['Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita' kaNa 48 of 108] More: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm It's important to remember that India being close to the equator does not have the varying sunrise and sunset times nor Daylight Saving Time that more northerly countries have. Hence many gurus will modify the meditation after sunset to meditating in a dark room. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 Paul, just how far do you think MMY would have gotten in teaching people around the world to meditate if he had been teaching a la Guru Dev? Or, what do you think would have happened if MMY had taught as he did, and these instructions from Guru Dev had been translated and made available through the TMO? How many TMers would have decided they were going to try it Guru Dev's way, and what would have been the result? Especially in the absence of Guru Dev's personal guidance? What was MMY going to say, No, no, don't do what Guru Dev instructed, do what I instruct? You keep suggesting that there's something sinister about MMY not promoting Guru Dev's actual teaching, but that's one of the silliest criticisms I've encountered. MMY obviously *didn't have a choice* if he wanted TM to be universally accepted--or even to *work*, for that matter. The context in which Guru Dev taught was just too different. I suppose MMY could have issued a carefully bowdlerized version of Guru Dev's lectures with all the sectarian Hinduism taken out. What would you have thought of that? What would have been left? Would that have been true to Guru Dev's intent? If you want to bash MMY for going global with TM instead of staying back in India and teaching a few people exactly what Guru Dev taught, ishtas and all--or for teaching anything in the first place-- fine. But if you don't disapprove of his wanting to make TM universal, you really don't have a leg to stand on in suggesting that he is dishonoring Guru Dev by not promoting his original teachings. That just makes no sense at all. At daybreak and in the day do that fit puja and dhyaana etc, but at night before sleeping you should certainly do 10-15 minutes of japa of the 'ishhTa mantra kaa japa' and 'dhyaana' of the 'ishhTa muurti' (desired form). From this 'upaasanaa' (sitting near / devout meditation) quick advancement occurs. In darkness you should sit with eye closed and do japa of the mantra, and in the same way with eye closed you should do dhyana of the ishhTa with the mind. Not on their whole body, you should look on the foot or on the mouth area of the head, seeing the full of compassion of our favourite ishhTa, looking infused with tenderness. The vision of the ishhTa becomes one's own desire. You should look not envisage the eye of the ishhTa to be closed. This manner of having seen the vision of the infusion of tenderness, doing dhyaana of the ishhTa in the heart, you should remain doing japa of the ishhTa mantra. From this, the image of the ishhTa will grow and provided that the mind gets strengthened and held with the ishhTa then in the end will stay in this condition. On the strength of this you should go across the ocean of samsaara. ['Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita' kaNa 48 of 108] More: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm It's important to remember that India being close to the equator does not have the varying sunrise and sunset times nor Daylight Saving Time that more northerly countries have. Hence many gurus will modify the meditation after sunset to meditating in a dark room. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Dev on how / when to meditate
Premanand Paul, Thank you for another enormous contribution. Your site on Guru Dev is tremendous. And this teaching of his (below) hits the spot. Jai Guru Dev ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes Barry2, in this context that must be what he meant and I have ammended the translation to reflect this view: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/upadesh.htm#Gurudevmeditation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Paul Mason wrote: Guru Dev - Shankaracharya Swami Brahmanand Saraswati gives a few words about when and how to meditate. Translation by Paul Mason 31st August 2006 At daybreak and in the day do that fit puja and dhyaana etc, but at night before sleeping you should certainly do 10-15 minutes of japa of the 'ishhTa mantra kaa japa' and 'dhyaana' of the 'ishhTa muurti' (desired form). From this 'upaasanaa' (sitting near / devout meditation) quick advancement occurs. In darkness you should sit with eye closed and do japa of the mantra, and in the same way with eye closed you should do dhyana of the ishhTa with the mind. Not on their whole body, you should look on the foot or on the mouth area of the head, seeing the full of compassion of our favourite ishhTa, looking infused with tenderness. The vision of the ishhTa becomes one's own desire. You should look not envisage the eye of the ishhTa to be closed. This manner of having seen the vision of the infusion of tenderness, doing dhyaana of the ishhTa in the heart, you should remain doing japa of the ishhTa mantra. From this, the image of the ishhTa will grow and provided that the mind gets strengthened and held with the ishhTa then in the end will stay in this condition. On the strength of this you should go across the ocean of samsaara. ['Shri Shankaracharya UpadeshAmrita' kaNa 48 of 108] More: http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm It's important to remember that India being close to the equator does not have the varying sunrise and sunset times nor Daylight Saving Time that more northerly countries have. Hence many gurus will modify the meditation after sunset to meditating in a dark room. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
