Ratio legendi GAZA est longa-breuis (id est trochaeus), propterea quod nomen
est recto casu numero singulari, ut demonstratur a uerbis TROIA/ et ab ...
EREPTA(764).
Grato animo
Carmine Iannicelli
Scrive Neal, Marla [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
The pattern I get when I scan it is s-s-s-d-d-s. The 'dam'
Dear Peter,
I have not found many illustrations for the fourth Bucolic. At the most
some manuscripts have decorated initials, and there is one 15th c. ms in
Spain with an illumination for B4. It shows V writing and a room with the
child in a cradle and two more people. This ms is the only one
How times change! My copy is pushing thirty and holding up well!
Helen COB
On 23 Jan 2004, at 18:11, david connor wrote:
You'll probably get many references to Cunliffe's Homeric Lexicon, the
most useful tool I've found
for reading Homer. University of Oklahoma Press. Binding is poorly
Hi Helen,
Refresh my memory...when is the ASCS conference? I have a business trip
to Dee Why coming up and I'd like to attend.
Many Thanks,
Matt
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno
--- You wrote:
In the case of Vergil, it seems clear (assuming we identify the person
named as the poet) that Horace in Odes I.3 calls Vergil Vergil. So perhaps
it is as simple a thing as what people called these writers in ancient times.
I doubt that the Romans consistently called all people by
i agree with u entirely
From: Helen Conrad-O'Briain [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: VIRGIL: RE: Vergil's name
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 21:05:30 +
I won't even attempt to scan Horace, but could it be a question of meter
that he uses he one rather
Virgil was highly regarded in medieval Wales and in Welsh his name comes out
as 'Pheryllt' or 'fferyll' and variants. However, the first vowel always
seems to be 'e', though an 'i' is possible in Welsh.
I imagine names were often recorded as heard, rather than as read, which
could account for
I don't think there is any rhyme or reason why we use the nomen for some
authors and the cognomen for others. We don't, for instance, call Ovid
Naso. We don't call Horace Flaccus. And we could find any number of
other instances in which this use of nomen rather than cognomen is our
preferred
I suppose that in the later medieval period Latin was finally ceasing to be
a living language in any sense. Perhaps some syllables died before the
whole language did. - Martin Hughes
- Original Message -
From: George Heidekat [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 14,
Sorry, everyone; I mistook this for a private message. Perhaps someone
else who knows the novel can comment.
Joe Farrell wrote:
Hi, Megan --
I have seen a movie based on that book, but have never read the book
itself and don't know the story that well. So it's hard for me to give
you an
I had never heard the suggestion that Virgil's work had
a significant
influence on the works of medieval and renaissance writers.
Could you please inform me of some references that would
confirm this
postulate?
In addition to Professor Bognini's suggestions, the following posted
by
Has anyone yet mentioned Curtius' European Literature and the Latin
Middle Ages - or that wonderfully readable work of Helen Waddell, The
Wandering Scholars?
Helen COB
On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 12:25 PM, Patrick Roper wrote:
I had never heard the suggestion that Virgil's work had
a
: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:07 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: VIRGIL: Re: Virgil's influence on medieval and renaissance
writers
Has anyone yet mentioned Curtius' European Literature and the Latin
Middle Ages - or that wonderfully readable work of Helen Waddell, The
Wandering Scholars?
Helen COB
I'd like to thank P. Roper and H. Conrad-O'Briain
for their observations about twelfth century schooling
and Curtius' masterpiece (not mentioned so far) respectively.
With regard to the school, I have to recall an old, maybe old-fashioned
but always charming remark by Ludwig Traube: VIII and IX
I don't know why the mantovano listserv has distributed this message again.
I sent it, and it was first distributed, in early July!
The article I got this from merely attributes the quotation to 'Fabricius'.
The reference may be to the 'Observationes Lectionis Virgilianae' of
Georgius Fabricius,
The article I got this from merely attributes the quotation to 'Fabricius'.
The reference may be to the 'Observationes Lectionis Virgilianae' of
Georgius Fabricius, which were printed (in more than one version) in
Renaissance editions of Virgil. See, for example, Virgil's Opera (Basel,
1586) or
Looking through my books I came across 2 quotes that might relate to your
question
1 ' The Fir Bolg are found in myth as the next colonizers of ireland ..
varying traditions say that they came from Greece and ...curious stories are
told of their life in greece but these are somewhat factitious
Dear Sylvia
I was unaware of (and tantalised by) this idea of Greek origins for the
Irish, but it is an interesting parallel to their alleged Scythian
(from Nennius onwards) and later Carthaginian origins
(notably Charles Vallancey in the 18th century 'proving' the link by
the 'similarities' of
One source of this Greek hypothesis is John of Fordun's Scotichronicon
of the 15th century which covers the supposed origin of the Q-Celtic
speaking Scots and Irish.
I have a version in a book called Myths Legends of the British Isles
edited by Richard Barber (1999, The Boydell Press). This
At 22:08 27.05.01 +0200, you wrote:
¿Podría alguien ayudarme a localizar una página donde exista algún tipo de
foro de
discusión sobre Lorenzo Valla y su obra en latín? Estoy buscando el
comentario que
realiza el autor al término latino Testamentum (quizá se encuentre en sus
Elegantiae...pero no
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], James Butrica
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
¿Podría alguien ayudarme a localizar una pgina donde exista algún tipo de
foro de discusión sobre Lorenzo Valla y su obra en latín? Estoy buscando
el comentario que realiza el autor al término latino Testamentum (quiz se
Please take me off the mailing list!
I have already tried to get taken off and nothing has happened. PLEASE
take me off the list! PLEASE
My e-mail address is:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thank you for your help.
From: David Wilson-Okamura [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL
The 1997 _The Odyssey_, while of limited usefulness and less integrity, has
a preliminary review of the Trojan war (be careful to identify Sinon on
your own). The Branaugh _Hamlet_ has a version of the death of Paris with
Judy Dench playing Hecuba. Both are worthwhile for high school audiences
Query (for another list, when you want to be philosophical but not too
serious): _why_ is it not for the dead to judge of innovations?
There was once an artisan who made a glass cup that couldn't be broken. He
was let in to see Caesar, bringing his present; he got it back from him and
threw it
I think from memory that Jackson Knight found at this seance that Virgil
could no longer speak Latin in the afterlife and had to converse in
English. Although poor old Jackson Knight was probably deceived by the
medium, he was not the only Virgilian interested in these things:
F.W.H. Myers
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter Bryant
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
As for post-mortem meetings with Virgil, I have collected a few examples
of which the following is probably the most entertaining.
The novel Penguin Island(L'ile des pingouins (1908)) by Anatole
France (1844-1924)
Is indeed
There are plenty of humane people in the world who have never wittingly
encountered the classics - whether Vergil and Homer, or the authors who are
included under the rubric Classics in the bookstore in the mall. The
humanities are neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for making one
Adrian:
I appreciate your doubts about the uses that humane education can be put to.
The best way to state my view is that a study of humanities might arguably
be necessary to the development of a humane point of view, not sufficient
for it. That is the strongest argument I can imagine a
On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, James Lewis wrote:
Randi Eldevik wrote:
[snip]
For my purposes, the Teutonic Knights and _all_ their activities are
just another example of an arrogant approach to cultural hegemony that was
all too common in Western Christianity during the Middle Ages; afterward,
I now agree that the Aeneid wasn't favored over other epics during the
Middle Ages due to any reflections on the morality of force that seem
apparent in it today. In fact, even the most devout early Christians, I
believe , would not make the ana lysis of the Aeneid that some do today.
Citing
what are some examples of metonomy early on in the aeniad. i'm having trouble
picking them out
thanks
Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com
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---
To leave the
wow that was quick. how did you do that.
From: kamilla santos [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: VIRGIL: Re: hi
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 08:04:02 GMT
Hi i think that you sended your e-mail to a wong person. i would like
to
help but.
bye!!
From:
scott mcguire wrote:
look i have no clue what you guys keep writing me for.so please
stop ...i don't even know who virgil is!
how sad.
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forwarded message
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:09:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Philip Thibodeau [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Has anyone yet seen a review of Richard Jenkyns' new Virgil's
Experience? It seemed to me to be making such a play to become THE
Vergil book that I am very curious to find out how reviewers
I suppose that it's hard, if you regard a book as in some way a fount of
wisdom, not be impressed or jolted if you open it at a passage which
engages with your mood, wishes or fears. Certainly I find this. There is
rather a good study of the matter in M.R.James' short story 'The Ash Tree'
-
James was always good with the apt biblical quote - as was Sayers. A nice
ironic twist with the Stratagems - so very Jamesian.
It seems from the response that the sortes have dies out - or are people to
shy to discuss their present day use?
Helen Conrad-O'Briain
At 02:26 PM 8/4/99 +0100, Helen Conrad-O'Briain wrote:
It seems from the response that the sortes have dies out - or are people to
shy to discuss their present day use?
The following story may be apocryphal; as I recall, it was recounted by my
sixth-grade teacher as an admonition AGAINST using
Since the subject came up ... there is the poem Sortes Vergilianae in John
Ashbery's _The Double Dream of Spring_. I've never caught the connection
between this poem and its title, but then, in Ashbery that relationship can
be oblique.
On this question, how many of you have known people who actually used
sortes with some degree of seriousness for any work, ie bible, Vergil,
Koran?
Helen Conrad-O'Briain
---
To leave the Mantovano mailing list at any time, do
See Gareth Reeves' _T. S. Eliot: A Virgilian Poet_ (New York: St. Martin's
Press, 1989). Reeves references much of Eliot's own writing about Virgil,
especially Eliot's book, _What is a Classic?_ and Eliot's essays, What is
a Classic? (1944) and Virgil and the Christian World (1951), both
]
-Original Message-
From: Sarah Dever [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 9:33 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:RE: VIRGIL: Re: Aeneas' 'greatest labour' ?
However, Aeneas must defeat Turnus if he is to marry Lavinia and
found Rome. Here he shows pietas
Aeneas becomes DUX at the end of the Aenead. He is definitely no longer
pius or pietas (which ever) if for some reason you think that he is
then pius near the end Aeneas is no longer a `how would you say a
fledgling' he is a `dux' pietas matters no more the objective must happen
and as a man
with many areas of study!!
-Original Message-
From: James Butrica [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 2:24 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: VIRGIL: Re: Aeneas' 'greatest labour' ?
Possibly the idea of the second half of the Aenied being described
Possibly the idea of the second half of the Aenied being described as
Vergil's 'greater labour' is to do with the struggle of Aeneas in
fighting the violence and anger (furor)of others with his
strengthened pietas. Before his visit to the underworld in Book 6,
Aeneas was unable to look forward
PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: VIRGIL: Re: Aeneas' 'greatest labour' ?
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:19:54 -0400 (EDT)
Possibly the idea of the second half of the Aenied being described
as
Vergil's 'greater labour' is to do with the struggle of Aeneas in
fighting the violence and anger
To Virgil: Aeneid Fans:
Could the horse also signify an imposing culture that at first seems
innocent and all other attributes thought to be held within a horse ie.
loyal, strong, (the cavalry was always the strongest in battles). But with
the acceptance of the horse [culture] which evolutionizes
:42 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: VIRGIL: re: Why A Horse?
I seem to remember seeing a vase, or sherd of a vase, in West Berlin, as
it was then, in which Athena is fashioning a horse. I haven't got LIMC
beside me at the moment, but someone may know what I'm talking about
I seem to remember seeing a vase, or sherd of a vase, in West Berlin, as
it was then, in which Athena is fashioning a horse. I haven't got LIMC
beside me at the moment, but someone may know what I'm talking about.
Leofranc
*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*
At 3:27 PM -0400 4/6/99, RANDI C ELDEVIK wrote:
James,
Granted, I may be overinterpreting, but let's remember that Athena
was also a war-goddess. I think what I've said about the importance of
horses for military victory and conquest fits in nicely with the horse
being a gift to Athena,
I'm coming in the back door of this Virgil and film discussion (I've been
on spring break) but the Sean Connery, Kevin Costner _Untouchables_ struck
me as Vergilian at the end when Ness pushes the mob hit-man (Nitti is his
name I think?) off the roof. A film which has gone to great lengths to show
IMDB=Internet movie data base =www.imdb.com
It knows slightly more than Alice (Central Casting Human Data Base) does
Helen COB
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Instead, send email to [EMAIL
From Ed DeH.:
I'm coming in the back door of this Virgil and film discussion (I've been
on spring break) but the Sean Connery, Kevin Costner _Untouchables_ struck
me as Vergilian at the end when Ness pushes the mob hit-man (Nitti is his
name I think?) off the roof. A film which has gone to great
-Original Message-
From: Peter Bryant [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 8:56 AM
Subject: VIRGIL: Re: FACETIÆ VERGILIANÆ
Here is a summary of the Æneid, which the Mantovani may find amusing:
The Classics in a Nutshell: Vergil's
The IMDB and a little leg work reveal Aeneas has been
on screen 5 times
1927: The Private Life of Helen of Troy
1956: Helen of Troy
1961: The Trojan Horse
1962: The Avenger [sequel to The Trojan Horse]
1971: Trolius and Cressida
As Peter mentioned, _The Trojan Horse_ is taken in part
from Book 2
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Neven Jovanovic [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
The easy solution, or interpretation, of G. 1,388 would be to read
_crow's s's_--and C's and H--as the sound of _sand_, harena:
et Sola in SiCCa SeCum Spatiatur Harena
There probably are strong reasons to resolutely reject
Before anything else I think it is important that we recognise this as
formally a type scene - the recognition of a piece of equipment re-ignites
hatred and battle - the locus classicus for this in Norse and Old English
is the Ingeld- Starkathr episode, this said, it is clearly up to the
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Geyssen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes
While we're on the topic--Is there anything close to an accepted date for the
Culex or Ciris?
Culex: first century AD, before Lucan, if you believe Sootiness' report
that he 'initia sua cum Vergilio conparans ausus sit dicere:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Leofranc Holford-
Strevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], John Geyssen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes
While we're on the topic--Is there anything close to an accepted date for the
Culex or Ciris?
Culex: first century AD, before Lucan, if you
I seem to remember that this is one of the things discussed in the
great Knauer tome.
Yours,
yn
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:04:21 -0500
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Donka Markus [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: VIRGIL: Re: the death of young warriors
Reply-to:
Could someone on this list help me locate what has been written about the
death of young warriors as a motif in Roman literature? Thanks. D.Markus.
Petrini, Mark, The child and the hero: coming of age in Catullus and Vergil
(Ann Arbor, 1997) (Nisus Euryalus, Marcellus, Pallas, Ascanius; plus
The end of Aen.VIII
Talia per clipeum Volcani dona parentis
miratur, rerumque ignarus imagine gaudet
attollens umero famamque et fata nepotum.
'Such, throughout the shield, were the gifts of Aeneas' parent. He
wondered at them and, though he could not know the reality, was moved by
the image to
There is surely some irony here: the apparition (is it really Mercury?)
makes the famous remark about the untrustworthiness of women in order to
persuade Aeneas to disregard the trust which a woman had placed in him.
The passage may be more PC than it looks! I'd like to echo David's
disagreement
I would be interested in the evidence that my noble Romans did read
for themselves in the way that scholars like Pliny (and Cicero and
Caesar) obviously did, and schoolboys. I am still unpacking my books
from moving into retirement and can't find the recent CQs. Perhaps I
will find the evidence
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:54:16 +0100 (BST)
From: Don Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Robert Dyer wrote (inter much very interesting alia):
I suspect that
the Roman nobility seldom read texts for themselves, but listened to
their slaves.
There is massive evidence from all
I didn't say the early church; I said the medieval church. Certainly
there was a time (up through the 6th c. A.D., roughly) of transition when
paganism was still a serious rival to Christianity. My mention of Chaucer
should indicate that I was talking about a later period. But, even
focusing on
Emendations, etc. for what the anagrammer hath written:
Anyway, an example of a mistranslation. Lets take book four, line 117.
West translates as Aeneas and poor Dido are preparing to go hunting
together. Well, the Latin word describing Dido is 'misera', which
The message below was posted by a body that calls itself The
Oracle. Could we have a sample of the mistranslations, please. As
someone who was taught a bit of Latin by David West, I would be
absolutely fascinated, and the Mantovanists would be shown
justification for the Oracle's statement.
thanks
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unsubscribe mantovano in the body (omitting the quotation marks). You
can also unsubscribe at
To Whom it May Concern:
Thank you for the link. I found it quite useful (albeit bizzare) for
my research. As a high-school junior taking a college-level Latin
course, I often find it difficult to find links that satisfy my needs.
Sincerely,
Shannon Merlino
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:05:11 -0400
From: Alfonso Georeno [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 11:28 AM 9/14/98 -0600, you wrote:
An interesting site that has links to lit and language resources (as well
as some other bizarre stuff) is:
http://www.partyharvey.com
Shannon Merlino [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/07
I am still digesting the material which has come down the line from
Leofranc et al. on this topic, but I would like to throw in one small
caveat, leaving sympathy and emotion aside, there is a developing idea of
natural law/justice versus custom or the law of individual nations, which
I believe
I think what we see here is the historically observable tendency for the
'leading' genre of a period to subsume roles and even other genres. Epic
had a head start on this since ancient theorists apparently derived most
other genres from the epic - even pastoral.
HCOB
After reading all of the replies, I find that one name is conspicuously absent
from the list--Dr. Holford Strevens, a man whose commentary is often
delightfully instructive and insightful. I for one would like to read what he
might have to say about IV.
Please, Sir, may I have some more . . .
This explanation is interesting,but a bit cryptic. Could you expand?
Robin Kornman
In the Eudemian Ethics (1219b) Aristotle distinguishes between encomium,
praise and felicitation:
dio heteron eudaimonismos kai epainos kai enko:mion. to men gar
enko:mion logos tou kath' hekaston ergou, ho d'
There's certainly no question that Donatus and Servius saw one of the most
important purposes of the Aeneid to be praise of Augustus, but I think it
important to keep in mind that they are advancing interpretations from a
grammarian's point of view. And the grammarians tend to be very
sympathetic
At 12:46 PM -0400 7/16/98, Philip Thibodeau wrote:
There's certainly no question that Donatus and Servius saw one of the most
important purposes of the Aeneid to be praise of Augustus, but I think it
important to keep in mind that they are advancing interpretations from a
grammarian's point of
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:31:24 +0200
From: Jorge Fernandez Lopez [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 10:39 PM 7/14/98 +, Yvan Nadeau wrote:
The problem about email is that it induces action rather than
reflection. I think I shall give it up.
I'm not sure it's any worse than conversation in that regard,
Subject: Re: VIRGIL: RE: Panegyric, was: a question on book iv
Sent:7/15/98 4:07 PM
Received:7/15/98 5:31 PM
From:David Wilson-Okamura, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:31:24 +0200
From: Jorge
At 1:25 PM -0400 7/15/98, Philip Thibodeau wrote:
There's certainly no question that Donatus and Servius saw one of the most
important purposes of the Aeneid to be praise of Augustus, but I think it
important to keep in mind that they are advancing interpretations from a
grammarian's point of
My dear Tim,
It depends on which rhetorical school you follow, doesn't it? What
is a genre? When we use that term, what do we mean by it? Are
Epic and panegyric really mutually exclusive terms in the way we
talk about ancient literature? Who laid down that law? Is it really
helpful to
At 10:39 PM 7/14/98 +, Yvan Nadeau wrote:
The problem about email is that it induces action rather than
reflection. I think I shall give it up.
I'm not sure it's any worse than conversation in that regard, but I think
Yvan's right about the epic/panegyric distinction: it probably didn't
Thank you, Peter Bryant for the excellent advice and the citations.
Although I do already own the Loeb edition of Statius, I enjoyed your
insight and recommendations. Will rush out and pick up Melville's
splendid translation. Enjoyed your including excerpts of each work.
Yours etc.,
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