Chris,
I won't *say* what the first principle of Zen is. But I'll say that, although
everything changes at awakening, nonetheless, others will say about you that
you are optimistic and positive, even as never before. You may not think so,
but that goes with the territory, too, and if you can
Chris,
Further on your question, I would say, No.
The first principle of Zen is good posture. ;-)
On your question, my teacher Sheng Yen also used to say, Keep your feet warm
and your head cool.
The physical is stressed -- There *is* no mind.
I myself, personally, would say that it is not
On Dec 26, 2012 10:26 PM, Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:
Chris,
Yes, at least in my understanding of the meaning of the word 'faith'.
If someone slaps your face do you have to have 'faith' to experience the
slap? If you bite into a lemon do you resort to 'faith' to experience the
taste?
I am certainly not training in zen so people will speak well of me,
nor to become a copy of the masters that brought the teaching to the
US. If anything, I hope I will be more what I am meant to be, and
that you will be more what you are meant to be.
However, your words remind me of a truism of
Totally agree on the posture. I wish we could introduce a word
body/mind to English usage. It is much more precise.
The riff on giving up hope is my summary of a lot of Joko Beck's
transcribed dharma talks in Nothing Special. -- e.g.:
In talking about Sisyphus:
What would be the enlightened
Chris,
Heh-heh, of course not.
But nonetheless, after awakening, family or friends or strangers may give you
feedback or praise, which could lead to those thoughts, if you were capable of
entertaining thoughts.
Information may come from all sides, but it does not necessarily stick to us,
and
Chris,
In certain moods, maybe a more resonant Western classical figure is that of
Odysseus. He was trying to keep alive each day, yes, but as much as or more
than anything -- in addition to all his other efforts and exertions -- he was
just trying to get Home! ;-)
--Joe
PS Funnily,
The certainty of non knowing perhaps but you are taking the word certainty
without its normal meaning of just like I am doing with faith
On Dec 25, 2012 1:51 AM, Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:
Chris,
We do find certainty in experience. At least I do...Bill!
--- In
Chris,
Yes, we all sometimes do use words with different nuances to support our
purposes - our rhetoric, but isn't that what they're for?
What I am trying to say is the only thing we 'know' for certain is what we
experience.
All other 'beliefs', whether based on faith or something else is IMO
Even when faith is known as an assertion of life in the absence of any
dualustic knowledge?
On Dec 26, 2012 7:32 PM, Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:
Chris,
Yes, we all sometimes do use words with different nuances to support our
purposes - our rhetoric, but isn't that what they're for?
Chris,
I'm over-tired here, and not willing to think much, but it occurs to me that,
in some ways, faith is a bit like optimism.
Pessimism is a jadedness which is born of (too much) experience. ;-)
I'm optimistic about sleep doing me plenty of good, and about tomorrow; and,
pessimistic about
Isn't the first principal of Zen to abandon hope and optimism? What we have in
front of us is our task. Any thought of it as good or bad (or getting better in
the so-called future) takes us away from the glory of that task.
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Dec 26, 2012, at
Chris,
Yes, at least in my understanding of the meaning of the word 'faith'.
If someone slaps your face do you have to have 'faith' to experience the slap?
If you bite into a lemon do you resort to 'faith' to experience the taste?
If I told you that biting into a lemon produces a taste that
Chris,
Yes, I agree with you. We abandon all dualism. We abandon hope as well as
despair. We abandon optimism as well as pessimism. We abandon good as well as
bad.
We are - and if you read this as 'self' then 'we aren't'. We act and we don't
act. We do and we don't. Always, Just THIS!
bill/// it's ying and yang..and that is the way of the world..merle
Yes, I agree with you. We abandon all dualism. We abandon hope as well as
despair. We abandon optimism as well as pessimism. We abandon good as well as
bad.
We are - and if you read this as 'self' then 'we aren't'. We
judge thee not joe just experience!... merle
Chris,
I'm over-tired here, and not willing to think much, but it occurs to me that,
in some ways, faith is a bit like optimism.
Pessimism is a jadedness which is born of (too much) experience. ;-)
I'm optimistic about sleep doing me
Joe,
I do put 'doubt' and 'faith' in the same category. Faith is belief, doubt is
disbelief. 'Questioning', which you appropriately point out is important in
some teaching schools (it was in mine), if neither belief or disbelief - it's
'don't know'.
That's the way it looks from here
Chris,
We do find certainty in experience. At least I do...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane chris@... wrote:
Life is doubt. no where do we find certainty, not here and and not now
Living is therefore an act of faith. each moment we float in this ocean,
not
Joe,
What you say is true, but where you have faith you also have doubt. They come
in the same gift-wrapped, illusory dualistic set. Faith can indeed move
mountains, but doubt can sink ships.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Joe desert_woodworker@... wrote:
Bill!,
Oh, yes,
Bill!,
You mention doubt.
You know -- and I know you *DO* know this!, Bill! -- in our sect, Doubt is
not disbelief, nor dubiousness. It is NOT the opposite pole from Faith. It
bears no antagonism to Faith, neither cognitively nor organically: a sane mind
and healthy body may entertain them
Life is doubt. no where do we find certainty, not here and and not now
Living is therefore an act of faith. each moment we float in this ocean,
not knowing, but still here we are. this living is faith.
Be not afraid, and may peace and goodwill flow within and around all of
us. Merry
Zendervish,
Faith is not a belief based on experience. If it is it's not faith, it's
experience.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, salik888 novelidea8@... wrote:
Well, if you have to think about faith or no faith this much there is
probably not much inight into just how faith
Joe,
You are certainly correct that the words/concepts of belief, faith and trust
are generally co-mingled. I certainly sometimes use them interchangeably when
really I shouldn't. The are related but are different words because they
describe different things; or at least different nuances of
Bill!,
In fact, Asvaghosha's, THE AWAKENING OF FAITH IN THE MAHAYANA, is addressed to
people Who have not yet joined the group of beings who are determined to
attain enlightenment (from Part 4: On Faith and Practice).
Now, what about after the practitioner himself/herself awakens? Does faith
Joe,
I stated in recent previous post that faith does/may have a place in the
beginning of zen practice before realization of Buddha Nature. It did in my
practice. Before the realization of Buddha Nature I believed what my teachers
were saying about Buddha Nature and my ability to realize it
Bill!,
Oh, yes, and don't get me wrong. I understand that, and you are very clear.
When I say that faith can emerge and be helpful even more than once, I also
speak from experience. Just a heads up (not necessarily to you, but to anyone)
that this is a possibility, because it has happened.
Bill!,
I bring in the other word, trust because I think that, as many of us use the
words belief and faith, we are leaning toward and meaning something more
like trust, and reliance.
I think that belief and faith -- as used in their more strict dictionary
sense(s) -- when used, say, by a
Zendervish,
IMO, and as I use these terms...
'Belief' is a condition of the mind that categorizes something as true or real.
'Faith' is a type of belief that has no experiential, scientific or logical
foundation.
I think these definitions are pretty much the same as the ones you gave in the
Bill!, Zendervish,
Bill, would you we willing to consider that there is an aspect of faith which
is like trust?
Trust, like faith, is often not simply blind, but is earned; it is developed.
I won't flesh that out.
Also, in all sorts of empirical situations, we humans rely on Induction;
Joe,
Of course both belief and faith have a component of trust. My distinction is
just that faith is a type of belief that has no experiential, scientific or
logical foundation. Trust can be well- or ill-founded.
Hume's 'will the sun rise again tomorrow' is a good example. Whether you
There you have it
__/\__
zendervish
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote:
Zendervish,
IMO, and as I use these terms...
'Belief' is a condition of the mind that categorizes something as true or
real.
'Faith' is a type of belief that has no experiential,
Well, if you have to think about faith or no faith this much there is probably
not much inight into just how faith moves . . . there really is no way of
defining faith, or refuting . . . much like Zen, it is an experiential mystery
that has many faces.
We could just call it, 'catching my
Salik, Bill!,
To an extent, faith is Trust.
Of course, experience is the Great Leveler; but, even after that, trust is
something to rely on, because we know we can. ;-)
I call it faith; I also call it trust. I'm probably not the only one.
If I am, I'll be greatly surprised, as in, a
Chris,
Thanks for this great interchange.
Buddhist-Christian Dialogue is an activity that's been important with me for
several decades. I don't follow the literature as much as I used to, but I
still feel the activity is important while Buddhism takes root in the West and
as the Christian
/bow
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Dec 19, 2012, at 11:42, Joe desert_woodwor...@yahoo.com wrote:
Chris,
Thanks for this great interchange.
Buddhist-Christian Dialogue is an activity that's been important with me
for several decades. I don't follow the
Thanks,
--Chris
ch...@austin-lane.net
+1-301-270-6524
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Joe desert_woodwor...@yahoo.com wrote:
Chris,
Thanks for the well-considered and wise points.
I guess that you can see that my aim in these considerations over the decades
has stemmed from a
Chris, Salik, et al...
Okay, if you don't like my proposed simile as in 'faith' = 'belief', how about
a proposed antonym as in 'faith' as opposed to/contrasted with 'know'?
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, salik888 novelidea8@... wrote:
Sorry, but Faith is not necessarily another
Karl Jaspers referred to faith as a 'leap'. Leap of faith . . . there was no
way to know, you could understant in some small way, but in terms of what
Religion offered on a sensible reasonable level, all systems had fallen short
of completion -- due to our level in the contingent scheme of
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Dec 15, 2012, at 14:33, Joe desert_woodwor...@yahoo.com wrote:
Chris,
Thanks very much for your perspectives.
One thing jumps out for me to be clear about:
Joe wrote:
But can we also worship with them? I'd say Yes. I think that
Chris,
Thanks for the well-considered and wise points.
I guess that you can see that my aim in these considerations over the decades
has stemmed from a determination to feel LESS divided from and judged by people
who express beliefs that I don't share, particularly by those, again, who
Salik,
I agree zen = experience, but the discussion was about 'faith'.
I use the term 'faith' to describe a type of belief that has no experiential,
scientific or logical foundation.
'Belief' for me is a more general term and does include beliefs based on
experience or scientific evidence or
Joe,
You pondered...
I wonder about the case of someone who takes the whole Christian/Jewish story
as metaphor. Can such a person be a good Christian? Or, does *everyone*
take the Christian story as metaphor?
I certainly take the story of Jesus' life a mostly metaphor, just as I take the
Chris,
The 'heart' of Christianity is FAITH, which is another word for 'belief'.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane chris@... wrote:
Well, as my Episcopal t-shirt says below, belief is not at the heart of
Christianity, rather the action of worshipping in community
In the most common conversations I have with my co-religinists, faith is
not belief. it is acting in accordance with God's will, giving the outcome
over to God. we don't know how things will turn out, we have faith that
in acting not out of our self, not out of fear, but in accordance with what
Chris,
Metaphor is sort of a timid word, howevere.
That's a *very* interesting take. I don't completely understand what you
have in mind. I take it to heart, but I'll work around it for now.
To be clear about how I use or understand metaphor here, I'll say that the
Christian story -- all,
Sorry, but Faith is not necessarily another word for belief . . . all
traditions use this expression. Grace is another word bandied about; to the
secularist, we could just call these things, good luck, or a sense of security.
Tillich made reference to faith, and all things in Christianity, in
On Dec 15, 2012 9:18 AM, Joe desert_woodwor...@yahoo.com wrote:
Chris,
Metaphor is sort of a timid word, howevere.
Effen glass keyboards
I
That's a *very* interesting take. I don't completely understand what
you have in mind. I take it to heart, but I'll work around it for now.
The word
Chris,
Thanks very much for your perspectives.
One thing jumps out for me to be clear about:
Joe wrote:
But can we also worship with them? I'd say Yes. I think that ritual
and group practice of this kind and other kinds (simple Assembly, or
Meeting, as in Quaker practice, or Zazen as in
Edgar and Hong,
I want the society I live in to act more like a family than a business...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Dear Hong,
First, thanks for joining the thread.
You ask a good question and the question you raise is complex.
First, in
Joe,
I'm mostly interested in how someone puts what they call 'zen' into practice
than how they acquired it. Of course in this medium the only evidence we see
is written communication - a very limited medium for demonstrating Buddha
Nature.
But I do agree with you that for me zazen (zen
Bill!,
It would be like being a Christian but not believing Jesus was the Son of
God.
You raise a point that's long been *very* interesting to me.
I wonder about the case of someone who takes the whole Christian/Jewish story
as metaphor. Can such a person be a good Christian? Or, does
i love the teachings of christ..and they sure go hand in hand with buddhist
enlightenment...for where there is light there is truth and dare i say
beauty...merry christmas to the group..merle
Bill!,
It would be like being a Christian but not believing Jesus was the Son of
God.
You
Well, as my Episcopal t-shirt says below, belief is not at the heart of
Christianity, rather the action of worshipping in community is. There is a
tremendous variety of beliefs in my church at least. it is fun to have a
variety of beliefs but it's peripheral. I find it easier to speak to folks
Edgar,
Communism does not reward incompetence and sloth. It just removes individual
rewards based on merit and replaces them with equal distribution of all wealth
as common property. It encourages a holistic community.
Capitalism is fueled by greed and does base rewards on individual merit.
Edgar,
As you know I sign my name as 'Bill!'. That's the only non-standard
exclamation point I usually use; and although I might have done so in the past
I don't recall using multiple question marks - and certainly don't use them
regularly.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar
Joe and RAF,
I've always referred to lotteries as 'a tax on the
statistically-challenged'...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, R A Fonda rafonda@... wrote:
On 12/12/2012 1:24 PM, Joe wrote:
I see the evil of state and national lotteries for the reason in your
final clause
Very
RAF,
I'm going to butt in here...on one selected topic:
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, R A Fonda rafonda@... wrote:
BTW, communism MUST be tyranny, as only through tyranny can
confiscation (for redistribution) be empowered.
That's only true if you allow the concept of private property.
bi...i agree with you wholeheartly..woh we are of like mind
here... so sweet...happiness is knowing another socialist!..merle
Edgar,
Communism does not reward incompetence and sloth. It just removes individual
rewards based on merit and replaces them with equal
Dear Hong,
First, thanks for joining the thread.
You ask a good question and the question you raise is complex.
First, in traditional societies, truly disabled and needy family members were
taken care of by their extended families, not the government.
However one of the primary
A Fonda rafo...@frontier.com wrote:
From: R A Fonda rafo...@frontier.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion and zen
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 13 December, 2012, 3:11
On 12/12/2012 3:21 AM, mike brown wrote:
I`m
My introduction to formal practice was thusly: I read Buddha by Karen
Armstrong, found that attentively reading about the eight fold path lead me to
the feeling I needed to fix my work situation to accord with right livelihood,
so I determined to leave my job and become a stay at home parent.
Chris,
Why do you sit if you don't enjoy sitting? If it's a pain the legs, ass or mind?
This is a question all Zenners should ask themselves. Why if it is such a chore
that they have to time themselves so they will get to stop do they do it?
Is torturing your body this way Zen? It reminds me
Thanks for your reply Edgar. Living in a higher poverty stricken
area, now, I've seen and lived firsthand those complexities. I would
say real and focused social work is one of the most beneficial
solutions currently. At its best, we can really look at the problem
and work on things for each
with Fearlessness and Grace_.
Regards,
hong yeong soo
Mike
--- On Thu, 13/12/12, R A Fonda rafo...@frontier.com wrote:
From: R A Fonda rafo...@frontier.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion and zen
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 13 December, 2012, 3:11
Chris,
I've bought multiple copies of THE THREE PILLARS over the years, and given them
away to friends.
I first found it in about 1975, I think, during a period of intensifying yoga
practice for me, and in the midst of the Hindu-styled meditation sitting I did
each day, plus miles of jogging.
you betcha..edgar..spot on reduce working hours..share the load...again that
wretched work share...tut tut... merle
Dear Hong,
First, thanks for joining the thread.
You ask a good question and the question you raise is complex.
First, in traditional societies, truly disabled and needy
edgar..it's the growth industry..grow till you drop...outmode economic
principles..
we need to pull our heads in...with global warming and climate change we need
to steer the goodship lollypop to new technologies to save the planet..
.producing endless mindless goods to satisfy the cravings
Sorry if this is a dupe, I thought I'd mailed it but its here as a draft.
---Chris
On Dec 13, 2012 7:48 AM, Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote:
Chris,
Why do you sit if you don't enjoy sitting?
Sometimes I love it sometimes I don't - one learns to care for the
body/minds near one
Edgar,
You may have missed it, but Zen Buddhism is the Meditation School.
It concentrates its practices around sitting meditation, but there are at least
12 other important practices besides.
Some who sit formally at centers also sit formally at home. That means timed
sits. Some folks who
Bill!,
Ooops! Apologies. I did not mean co-Moderator. I meant/mean _Moderator_ of
the drop-out Corps. Too bad about Edgar! But the water circles down the
drain, given a chance, anti-clockwise in this (N.) hemisphere.
Do you think I'm being too strong? It's just that all signs show that
Joe,
I meditate, sometimes still, sometimes moving, but it's NOT anything like the
physically unpleasant can't wait for it to stop and the timer to ring so I can
get up experiences I hear described by others on the group...
Again, if I may say so your post below sounds like it was written
Edgar,
I have little tolerance for/of poseurs, at no matter what hour. Fed up with
them and their harmfully distracting camouflage. ;-)
Good for you, though, if you are keeping up the practice, or several of the
practices (See if I believe it).
But you *don't* know about timed sits for
...@gmail.com wrote:
From: yonyon...@gmail.com yonyon...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion and zen
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 14 December, 2012, 4:34
Mike,
On 12/13/12, mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
RAF.
Checked out
I always heard death and taxes were two of the inevitably disappointing
parts of life. I am pretty sure democracy arose as a way to make the
inevitable taxes be chosen and spent in a somewhat more 'consent of the
governed' sort of way, not that democracy invented taxation.
Taxation without
Bill,
Not a good idea. The communist system in its ideal form perpetuates dependence
and failure because it rewards incompetence and sloth.
The ideal economic system is a free market system, but that being said there
are no truly free market systems since they are all perverted by the super
Merle and Bill,
You guys are great at adding your 's and ??'s but Bill
seems to always forget his :-)
Edgar
On Dec 12, 2012, at 2:10 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
joe..where is his grin?? merle
Merle,
You mean you don't see Bill!'s sly ironic grin?
On 12/12/2012 12:49 AM, Bill! wrote:
You're beginning to sound like a sour grapes Tea Bagger.
Bill, your 'realization' would be revealed as pretense by this alone,
but we also have your endorsement of communism to remove all doubt. You
have not only revealed your/self/, but the fox who
On 12/12/2012 8:08 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Democracy is a huge failure, because it elects not the best qualified
to solve real problems, but the best liars, bull shitters, and those
most willing to prostitute themselves to their corporate and banker
masters.
This is true, of course, but I
Now is the time for the Churchill quote about democracy being the worst
form of government except for all the alternatives.
What does it mean to say the best economic system is the free market
system which cannot exist?
if it cannot exist, how is it even good much less best?
Also, I have known
On 12/12/2012 7:15 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
taxes, like death, are just part of life
Taxes are so dangerous because they enhance and sustain government
power, which is pernicious due to the imperfections of human nature, and
because they destroy economic productivity, which impoverishes
On 12/12/2012 3:21 AM, mike brown wrote:
I`m not sure that certain ethic groups do have a higher propensity to
wage war.
It sounds as if you are unfamiliar with both the anthropology and
genetic data. For the anthropology I suggest Napoleon Chagnon; for a
glimpse at the tip of a genetic
On 12/12/2012 10:48 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Now is the time for the Churchill quote about democracy being the
worst form of government except for all the alternatives.
Like hard cases making bad law, pithy comments can make for poor
reasoning. IS democracy /really/ better than all the
Given that there has not, as far as I know, been a stable and admirable
society without taxes I doubt you can be sure about the ill effects of
taxation.
Governments are also a pretty universal way of organizing societies. As far
as I can see the imperfections of human nature exist in and out of
I rather doubt that pithy line of reasoning is true - certainly there is
less communism and more democracy now than when I was little.
I personally would not be shocked if technology enables a sort of
anarcho-syndicalism in the future, but I bet there would be some bill of
rights and division of
On 12/12/2012 11:48 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Is this the system you think would be better than our tax based system?
You seem to be under the misapprehension that because I foresee
something I must 'want' all aspects of it.
I live in California
So, if you can't already recognize a
Merle,
You may be seeing all the way to his Original Face; but, in this case I suggest
looking at the one worn gracefully on the top of THAT one.
;-)
--Joe
Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
joe..where is his grin?? merle
Merle,
You mean you don't see Bill!'s sly ironic
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:21 AM, R A Fonda rafo...@frontier.com wrote:
On 12/12/2012 11:48 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Is this the system you think would be better than our tax based system?
You seem to be under the misapprehension that because I foresee something
I must 'want' all
Merle,
No, no way! Please; your correspondence with the Roshi is private.
That's the way it is in our Way. Only tell me general things later, maybe, if
you wish, about art and zen and how they may link-up. Your discussions are
like what transpires in Dokusan, Private Teaching in the Room:
Mike,
...indicates a chasm between the two cultures.
The chasm is the 49th Parallel. Funny, because, from the air, it does not look
all that imposing! ;-)
--Joe
mike brown uerusuboyo@... wrote:
RAF,
I`m not sure that certain ethic groups do have a higher propensity to wage
war. It
Tho the Three Pillars of Zen has a great section of dokusan transcripts.
On Dec 12, 2012 9:41 AM, Joe desert_woodwor...@yahoo.com wrote:
Merle,
No, no way! Please; your correspondence with the Roshi is private.
That's the way it is in our Way. Only tell me general things later,
maybe, if
Chris,
Now you 'make' me want to see again the movie Meet Joe Black, a reworking of
the earlier story Death Takes a Holiday. Philosophical and fun. And some
really good casting and acting. Death and taxes figure literally, and LARGE,
in the movie!
The Buddha might have said that the two
On 12/12/2012 12:33 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Is this the system you think would be better than our tax based
system?
You seem to be under the misapprehension that because I foresee
something I must 'want' all aspects of it.
You wrote of some better system than
RAF,
Overruled!
--Joe
R A Fonda rafonda@... wrote:
On 12/12/2012 12:49 AM, Bill! wrote:
You're beginning to sound like a sour grapes Tea Bagger.
Bill, your 'realization' would be revealed as pretense by this alone,
but we also have your endorsement of communism to remove all doubt.
Chris,
What does it mean to say the best economic system is the free market system
which cannot exist?
It *is* puzzling.
But I think it contains the SAME germ of truth as exists also in the famous
statement about Ideal Communism, which I think Marx and other theorists wrote
about:
Ideal
RAF,
I do not oppose taxes for personal reasons ... but because they empower evil
*and reduce the people to poverty*.
I see the evil of state and national lotteries for the reason in your final
clause (where I've added my emphasis of '*').
--Joe
R A Fonda rafonda@... wrote:
On
Howdy, RAF,
SCIENCE goes through these doldrum periods, too, when all seems wrapped-up, and
the old-timers sit back and smoke thick sickening cigars, which youngsters
shun.
Then, upstarts come along and generate a Revolution. Their work is rejected at
first, of course, but, then, after the
On 12/12/2012 1:24 PM, Joe wrote:
I see the evil of state and national lotteries for the reason in your
final clause
Very true, one might regard them as a tax on the desperate and those
ignorant of the implication of statistics. They are particularly
pernicious in that they make such a /few,
On 12/12/2012 1:09 PM, Joe wrote:
RAF,
Overruled!
Get outta that 'host seat'!
To paraphrase the dialog from Butch and Sundance: there /ARE NO/ rules
in a zen-fight ... let alone /over/rules.
RAF
Thanks,
--Chris
ch...@austin-lane.net
+1-301-270-6524
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:17 AM, R A Fonda rafo...@frontier.com wrote:
On 12/12/2012 12:33 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Is this the system you think would be better than our tax based system?
You seem to be under the
Chris, Merle,
That's right!, it is great!
Kapleau Roshi obtained very special permission from the Roshi and from the
students to take and to publish those records, for all our benefit, in his book
THE THREE PILLARS OF ZEN. Kapleau's mission was to give a flavor of formal Zen
practice before
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