At 02:49 10/12/2002 +0800, Bishop Mark wrote:
>Elder Maxwell said in his conference talk:
>"The restored gospel is buoyant, wide, and deep?beyond our comprehension.
>It edifies, whether concerning divine design in the universe or stressing
>the importance of personal chastity and fidelity. Only
John W. Redelfs wrote:
> The only time the Nephites pursued the Gadiantons beyond their own borders
> they were militarily defeated. National defense is justified. National
> offense is not. --JWR
I think that this is an assumption on your part, the assumption being that
the mountains in which
John W. Redelfs wrote:
> Actually, the only time the Nephites went on a search and destroy mission,
> following the Gadiantons up into the mountains, they were soundly defeated
> and had to withdraw. The Book of Mormon is the story of national DEFENSE,
> not offense. --JWR
Your offense is my de
"Ad hominem" is an odd thing to put in here, and it is put in incorrectly, I
might add.
But it appears to me that you chose to let things go until they get out of
hand, assuring us that they will not. I chose to support the view that they
are already out of hand and will get much worse.
Saddam'
Stranger things have happened! ("Sounds like you are becoming a good
Christian")
I wasn't able to find the time to write down some notes until about 11PM Sat
eve. I thought I knew what I was going to say, but somehow that was not was
I was supposed to say, I guess. My talk came out quite differ
Is Colorado City (or Hildale Utah) the next Waco?
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/13/politics/campaigns/13POLY.html?
ex=1035172800&en=f7f4a7b923278443&ei=5038&partner=ASAHI
--
Steven Montgomery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
/
/// Z
After careful consideration, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Larry Jackson wrote:
> > It was a clear day in New York last year, too.
>
>When *Saudis* attacked it.
>
>So bomb Riyadh, Dammam, Dhahran, Taif, Jiddah,
>Mecca or Medina.
>
>___
>
>Why? That's not where the source of the problem is
Good post, and thanks for finding what I knew was in the Book of Mormon, but
couldn't think of it. My son should have, though, because Captain Moroni is
his hero. And note, he also wants to attend West Point, and I don't really
know which came first, but I think it was Capt. M.
I am eagerly awai
After careful consideration, Paul Osborne wrote:
>I didn't say anything about the Democrats or anything about those who
>voted for them. I simply implied that I smell something rotten in Denmark
>if hundreds of thousands of LDS people pray for the Spirit's help in
>electing a mass murderer for Pre
After careful consideration, Marc A. Schindler wrote:
>Funny, but that's what I believe, too. (Well, that he's of our race,
>anyway, and
>I think he's *trying* to be decent, he's just in over his head and is a
>figurehead for more sinister forces [goshdarnit, I'm beginning to sound
>more and
>mo
Only if Bush puts Janet Reno back in as AG.
Jon
Steven wrote:
> Is Colorado City (or Hildale Utah) the next Waco?
/
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
I take it, then, that (1) you strongly believe that Bush is controlled by
the rich folks, and (2) those of us who approve of his approach in many
things are also controlled by the rich folks, or are at least stupid enough
to be fooled. (2) is certainly the implication of your statement below.
It
>It doesn't matter that President Bush is decent if he is beholden to
>wealthy and powerful special interests. If others are dictating to him,
he
>could be a decent man and still cause great evil to come upon our
nation.
That's a much softer approach, John. I think you will get more mileage
p
[This is intended mainly for the Canadians to whom I'm sending this --
it's sad and ironic that we know more about foreign histories than we do
our own -- but I thought it might also be of interest to several friends
south of the border as an interesting bit of historical information.
Incidentally
Wow, just when you think you know a person. Marc, maybe you ought to have
your doctors investigated. I think they are rewiring your brain
K'aya K'ama,
Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www
.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html
"No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who
And Christ came to fulfill the OT law and offer a higher law. (IOW, use the term
"Bible" less categorically and I think you'll see a stark contrast between OT and
NT ideas).
Jon Spencer wrote:
> John W. Redelfs wrote:
> > Actually, the only time the Nephites went on a search and destroy mission,
whereby he inferred, using the previous "invasion of Iraq" as a
precedent, that a second invasion was needed, and would be beneficial.
My letter: "Follow the money"
<<http://www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20021014/MONLETS-1/Comment/comment/commentLet
I think that the Lord's prophecies will occur, regardless of what we do.
The only thing we can do is seek to establish Zion, spread the gospel,
and trust God to help us through all things.
As for wars, they are going to occur, regardless. We must seek to only be
involved in righteous wars, somet
And it is a terrible tragedy. Anytime innocent peoples are killed to make
a statement, then it is a definite tragedy.
And you are right, it is a movement. Clearly there are those nations that
definitely support this movement by their actions. Saddam has shown by
his actions that he supports terror
We may help establish freedom in Iraq. I think many Arabs are interested
in the gospel, however their current dictatorships and religious police
will not allow them to even say the word, "Mormon." God does work through
Zion, however I know that he sometimes works through wars of preparation
as wel
Sinister forces? Is this the Marc from Canada that I used to know
Just what are the doctors giving you lately? Have your wife check you
medication level, I think your getting a double dose. ;-)
That's the ONLY thing I can figure out on how a liberal Canadian can
sound so much like a conserva
How about letting one of America's finest answer that question? I would
gladly lay down my life to stop terrorism. It is a key signature of
Gadianton Robbers. When the Nephites placated them, they grew in
strength. Over the past decades, we have basically placated the Islamic
fundamentalists, allo
"ad hominem" is not out of place. You don't plan your foreign policy based on
what a stinker some foreign head of government/state is. You'd have to invade
Canada and Britain if that were the case
Jon Spencer wrote:
> "Ad hominem" is an odd thing to put in here, and it is put in incorrectly,
I for one would appreciate the research. I may come off sounding like an egghead,
but I'm not the scriptorian half of you are. But I do have a suspicion I know why
all the stories end the way they do, but I'll wait for the results of someone's
research before I venture forth with my idea.
Jon Spe
Sounds like it was edifying for the congregation and spiritually satisfying for
you. Well done!
Jon Spencer wrote:
> Stranger things have happened! ("Sounds like you are becoming a good
> Christian")
>
> I wasn't able to find the time to write down some notes until about 11PM Sat
> eve. I thoug
No, it isn't hypocrisy. It is realizing that our one nation only has so
much power and ability to stop wrong things from occurring. Imagine how
many would die had we attacked the Soviets or Chinese, in order to stop
their slaughtering of their own peoples? Back then, we did not have a
human rights
Or are you just reading that into such events? Were the Nephites wicked
for trying to destroy the Gadiantons? Or were they just not strong enough
to accomplish it? Perhaps the Nephites were more righteous when they
allowed the Gadiantons to grow in power among the Nephites? Let's not
misquote the
Ashcroft, of course, would have no problem with polygamists...
Odd, too, that, as per my post earlier in the week the BC government thinks it
would be futile to arrest anyone in Bountiful, the Canadian branch of the
Colorado City group (and not, incidentally, the only fundi colony in the interio
>We have no right to say evil things about a person, without strong
>evidence. GWBush is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
>However, he has not ever shown himself to be an evil man, which is what
a
>Gadianton is.
I agree. And, when was the last time our beloved prophet went to the
w
>As for your claim that Bush is a Gadianton, just where is your proof?
There is no proof. The President is a descent man. I'm absolutely sure of
it.
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or
So, when the LORD declared unto Joshua that he had delivered the Amorites
into his hand or when the LORD himself cast down "great stones from heaven"
to slay the Amorites this was somehow fulfilling a lesser law? I fail to
understand how the Israelites were somehow keeping a lesser law when God
After careful consideration, Gary Smith wrote:
>We may help establish freedom in Iraq. I think many Arabs are interested
>in the gospel, however their current dictatorships and religious police
>will not allow them to even say the word, "Mormon." God does work through
>Zion, however I know that he
After careful consideration, Gary Smith wrote:
>I only fear that such wars would quickly change to wars of pure
>destruction, and not of preparation. If I'm not mistaken, I think Gileadi
>compares the US with Egypt, and Russia with Assyria. We have problems in
>this country, no doubt. However,
I'm a little late in on the thread (have spent most of the day with family as
it's Thanksgiving here) but -- and I stand to be corrected by a reference, of
course -- but I don't think Gileadi made specific one-to-one comparisons like
this. From my understanding of Isaian typology that's not the po
The law is the same: a war is righteous if the Lord commands it (this is in the
BoM, the D&C and in numerous 1P statements). But since the meridian of time there
have been few, if any, such commandments. Zion doesn't expand through warfare
anymore. That's what's meant by fulfilling the law. You do
It's that crisp northern air that cleanses the mind ;-)
Gary Smith wrote:
> Sinister forces? Is this the Marc from Canada that I used to know
> Just what are the doctors giving you lately? Have your wife check you
> medication level, I think your getting a double dose. ;-)
>
> That's the ON
Gary Smith wrote:
> I can't help but remember what Edmund Burke said (paraphrased): All it
> requires for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.
>
Much of what you said in your post I would agree with. I think, though, that
Burke's quote is often misused when (and I'm speaking generally
Gary Smith wrote:
> And it is a terrible tragedy. Anytime innocent peoples are killed to make
> a statement, then it is a definite tragedy.
> And you are right, it is a movement. Clearly there are those nations that
> definitely support this movement by their actions. Saddam has shown by
> his
After careful consideration, Jon Spencer wrote:
> > How about Teancum? Was he righteous in his actions? Or will he burn in
> > hell forever for assasinating Amalickiah and Ammoron? Just where does one
> > draw the line between righteous action and unrighteous action? Clearly it
> > isn't just in w
Gary Smith wrote:
>
>
> Contrary to Marc, who I believe thinks that Zion will be annihilated by
> the latter day Assyria prior to its own fall, I think there will be two
> world powers: Zion and Babylon/Assyria. Zion will be built once
> America/US has been stopped as a nation (which is what I
While I agree with you regarding righteous wars, I don't necessarily agree
with your statement that "Zion doesn't expand through warfare
anymore." For instance, why has the Lord repeatedly stated that, after we
have done our part, He would fight our battles.
--
Steven Montgomery
At 07:41 PM
>And so far, nobody pays any attention the Lord Law of War. Notice that
in
>the last quoted verse, the Lord refers to it as his "law."...
>32 Behold, this is the law I gave unto my servant Nephi, and thy
afathers,
>Joseph, and Jacob, and Isaac, and Abraham, and all mine ancient prophets
>and
John Redelfs:
And Saddam is? What makes you think he is behind the
attack on 9-11? Actually, if you trace the money and arms
back another notch, I think you will find that Russia and
China are heavily promoting terrorism, using these Saudis,
Iraqis, Afghanis, etc. to hide their meddling. M
-Gary-
> look at how fluid the border with Mexico is.
-Marc-
> They are just taking back the land you took from them by force,
> but they're using other means and are outsmarting you. It's
> called La Reconquista. ;-)
Obviously you think this is quite clever, since you've used this term
several
After careful consideration, Marc A. Schindler wrote:
>How do you figure? I think the man's a genuine peacemaker, and deserved
>his Nobel
>Prize. Unlike at least 2 of his fellow nominees.
Kissinger and Ho Chi Minh?
/
//
After careful consideration, Jon Spencer wrote:
>I take it, then, that (1) you strongly believe that Bush is controlled by
>the rich folks,
Not rich folks. Evil, rich folks, folks who want to destroy our nation and
especially our Constitution.
>and (2) those of us who approve of his approach i
Well, not the answer I was expecting, but that will do :-)
"John W. Redelfs" wrote:
> After careful consideration, Marc A. Schindler wrote:
> >How do you figure? I think the man's a genuine peacemaker, and deserved
> >his Nobel
> >Prize. Unlike at least 2 of his fellow nominees.
>
> Kissinge
Well, Paul, what can I say? You're probably the kind of person who eats lobsters
and bugs, and, and, ... ham sandwiches, and mixes meat and milk together, too.
Wait'll I tell your bishop, Rabbi McConkiestein. You oughta be ashamed. :-)
Paul Osborne wrote:
> >And so far, nobody pays any att
After careful consideration, Paul Osborne wrote:
>Yes, the Lord gave this to his ancient covenant people and we as saints
>should apply this principle although we really haven't been instructed on
>how to do it. But, I fail to see how this teaching in Mormon scripture is
>binding upon the governme
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> John Redelfs:
>
> And Saddam is? What makes you think he is behind the
> attack on 9-11? Actually, if you trace the money and arms
> back another notch, I think you will find that Russia and
> China are heavily promoting terrorism, using these Saudis,
> Iraqis, Afgh
After careful consideration, Gary Smith wrote:
>Or are you just reading that into such events? Were the Nephites wicked
>for trying to destroy the Gadiantons? Or were they just not strong enough
>to accomplish it? Perhaps the Nephites were more righteous when they
>allowed the Gadiantons to grow i
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
> -Gary-
> > look at how fluid the border with Mexico is.
>
> -Marc-
> > They are just taking back the land you took from them by force,
> > but they're using other means and are outsmarting you. It's
> > called La Reconquista. ;-)
>
> Obviously you think this is quite c
After careful consideration, Gary Smith wrote:
>As for your claim that Bush is a Gadianton, just where is your proof?
Is proof needed? It is just common sense. The man in the street does not
start wars. Men with wealth and power do. Who has the wealth and power
today? It is Bush and compan
After careful consideration, Gary Smith wrote:
Does anyone wonder why he gave such a testimony of the First Vision and of
Joseph Smith during General Conference? It was to assure the members that
he knows these things occurred.
---
I must say that I was thrilled when I heard that talk. I know
After careful consideration, Marc A. Schindler wrote:
>"ad hominem" is not out of place. You don't plan your foreign policy based on
>what a stinker some foreign head of government/state is. You'd have to invade
>Canada and Britain if that were the case
Boy, that is for sure. But the last t
After careful consideration, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I don't think we're after him because of September 11th. I
>think we're after him because our president believes he
>plans to obtain a nuclear weapon and use it against us.
>
>I haven't noticed any of those other countries planning to
>do so.
After careful consideration, Gary Smith wrote:
>We currently have the strength to battle Saddam and keep him from
>becoming a nuclear power, or peddling that power to the nearest
>terrorist.
Unless I miss my guess, he has already peddled plenty to the nearest
terrorists. I'll bet there are suit
After careful consideration, Marc A. Schindler wrote:
>"As Latter-day Saints, we need to continue to support individual members
>of the
>armed forces (of all the countries where we live) and their families.
>However, we
>should also make our voices heard loudly and clearly: war is madness, and w
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