for
this purpose.
See:
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation
and:
http://ocoins.info/
(the latter not a microformat, but still useful).
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attention needs to be paid to the proper use of alt
and longdesc attributes.
Finally I'd like to see one or more use-cases explained - what will
parsers actually /do/ with this information?
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, for example.
I don't think legend is necessary as it seems to be acting as a
container uF?
Isn't legend a key to the symbols or pictures in a map?
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album.
/span
or:
span class=vcard haudio
span class=fn org albumThe Beatles/span' eponymous album.
/span
are better?
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On Thu, February 14, 2008 13:12, David Janes wrote:
Can we make a microformats-old group to endlessly discuss things
that were settled more than 12 months ago?
First you'd need to define settled.
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[album or track]-title; or we can be more
explicit, and use audio-title; or offer a choice of album-title,
track-title etc.
I favour the latter, for its enhanced semantics.
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not understand history are doomed to repeat it.
The former questions is both useful and pertinent.
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much wider implications for existing published
microformats.
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ago); the rest of us must, it seems, await their pleasure.
Anyone challenging this status quo faces opprobrium, while valid
suggestions and reasonable questions are quietly ignored. Some time sooner
or later, though, the wider web community will cotton on...
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to streaming
files, which are not cacheable, and are thus outside the scope of
rel-enclosure.
http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/
011344.html
Did you read that e-mail, and the page it cites:
http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-enclosure ?
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to the idea here, I wonder if
it might be better discussed in a DC forum?
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is a standard for distributed telephone
directory databases, not intended for film reviews, employment histories,
audio recordings or other use cases.
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http
of These Days
/foo
/foo
The former, hyphenated, pattern could again borrow the DC qualified
model, and be treated by parsers as equivalent to title for some
purposes, but distinguished from each other, for other purposes.
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concatenating
space-separated-terms so they could be used in the class attribute.
OK, so let's use, say, track title, song title and/ or album
title. Oh, they have spaces, so we have two choices...
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on; but that supposes
only one album per page.
(I'm no expert on the use of tab index; further advice should be
sought.)
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a
profile URI and putting a description of the terms used in the profile
on the Web, it's possible for people (and machines) to easily discover
the intended meaning.
What if the page includes profiles for hAudio *and* hCard?
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Manu Sporny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Martin McEvoy wrote:
On Fri, 2008-02-01 at 22:09 , Andy Mabbett wrote:
The more I consider this, the more I am convinced that class names
should not be shared between microformats.
For what its worth I think you may
In message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Paul
Wilkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On Feb 1, 2008 12:26 PM, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The problem is that people using CMS-hosted pages (including blogs and
wikis) can't add DC metadata to page in such systems, where they can't
edit the HEAD
previously:
http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2008-January/011342.html
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and an hListing might use:
class=dtlisted dc-date-created
Whether such usage is called a microformat, POSH or some other term is
really a matter of bike-shed colouration.
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for hAudio to exist with hreview and
although it pains me to say this (In my experience) item and fn are
problematic.
The more I consider this, the more I am convinced that class names
should not be shared between microformats.
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Manu Sporny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Andy Mabbett wrote:
On Tue, January 15, 2008 16:18, Manu Sporny wrote:
POSITION is a loose descriptor of where the piece fits in if it is part
of a collection of some kind. It is most useful when the other pieces
On Wed, January 16, 2008 10:20, Paul Wilkins wrote:
On Jan 16, 2008 10:11 PM, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How would you mark up position in:
At number two in the chart this week is Pink Floyd's Fearless,
track 3 on their Meddle album.
Or, rather, which of the two different kinds
semweb minded people at the fine
work of Yves Raimond on the music ontology (which incidentally it would be
nice to see used in the rdf-a hAudio spec):
http://musicontology.com/
Thanks; I'll read that later.
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those use-cases; but to do so in
a way which encourages people to drop good, semantic mark-up and use bad,
non-semantic mark-up isn't supportable.
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http
links to others' efforts to solve the problem of
codifying the structure of disparate types of music:
http://tinyurl.com/2uval5
on the wiki. In particular, see:
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/itunes.htm
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Martin
McEvoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Hello Andy
On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 20:27 +, Andy Mabbett wrote:
I think that providing an alternative to OL in that manner, not to
mention encouraging people to use it by having it as an example in
the
spec, is no better
without marking up
position and also use hAudio in tables with the ability to markup
position.
I think that providing an alternative to OL in that manner, not to
mention encouraging people to use it by having it as an example in the
spec, is no better then p class=heading
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Martin
McEvoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 21:00 +, Andy Mabbett wrote:
*download
*stream
I think rel-enclosure is still suitable for the above two examples
rel-enclosure is
[...]
any single object,
thing that can
://www.xfront.com/microformats/examples/hCalendar/example03/XML-conference.html
Do any other parsers yet recognise such mark-up?
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.
[...]
a container that means nothing
Let's use a term that means something.
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collecting,
in general, may be deficient and unrepresentative; but that's a whole
other debate.)
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but not with each other.
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Tantek Çelik
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Apologies for the reply to my own message but I wanted to make sure the
tone was not misunderstood.
Thank you, but unnecessary; it wasn't.
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. Science is not a
democracy.
Nether is science the act of citing made-up principles.
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or submicroformat
[1] http://microformats.org/wiki/item
In which, David Janes said:
hItem should [...] not be a general purpose dumping ground for
attributes
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they do - then we should use that.
[1] - http://tinyurl.com/yvekd2
http://tinyurl.com/ywg8qu
http://tinyurl.com/2kq96z
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this summer (I have a copy right here next to my PC):
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/podcasts/2007/04/newsdesk_notes_for_friday_apri_4.html
Do I get a prize? ;-)
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http
: http://tinyurl.com/2pzznr
*HMV uses a title: http://tinyurl.com/34z9pm
and so on...
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giving you different examples of different
meanings of TRACK, I hope I don't have to.
Please don't feel you have do something so pointless on my account.
Am I making My point?
Not clearly, no.
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Justin
Maxwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On Oct 14, 2007, at 12:10 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
What do you mean by there is no 'track' in data?
I thought we created microformats by looking at evidence, not
considering personal opinions and supposition about what may
How would you show the artist and duration of that track, using the
latter model?
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; unless you intended to wrap hRacetrack or hTraintrack
(!) in hAudio.
Are you suggesting we should use album-track instead of just rack.
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class=itemspan class=fnNagasaki Nightmare/
span – abbr class=duration title=P268T4:46/abbr/span
/span
4:46, in plain English, is not an abbreviation of P268T.
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
l
span class=l
line and span class=line would be better.
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already telling us (or
vice versa)?
Item is being used as a composite
http://microformats.org/wiki/item#3._As_a_composite
not as a formatted name or title
I believe that that item composite pattern is just a brainstorm, and
not agreed practice.
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On Oct 13, 2007, at 10:13 AM, Andy Mabbett wrote:
I think we should resolve the abbr-accessibility elephant in the
room,
once and for all, before introducing any new mis-uses of abbr. After
all, it was identified over
apart from the other items on a CD, such as an index, the performer,
its catalogue number, or whatever.
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* Say NO! to compulsory UK ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/
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* Are you using Microformats, yet
my concerns about the semantic impotence
of item.
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Martin
McEvoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On Sat, 2007-10-13 at 19:47 +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Martin
McEvoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Item is semantically empty, other than as a container. We might as
well
say thing.
what
-album artist, but where one features a guest
vocalist?
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* Free Our Data: http://www.freeourdata.org.uk
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streaming and video downloads
cater for captioning?
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On Tue, October 9, 2007 13:43, Ben Ward wrote:
say you have this in English:
span class=ingredient3 Strawberries span class=optional
(optional)/span/span
Surely:
span class=ingredient optional3 Strawberries (optional)/span
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/span
represent 23 metres or 3 square-metres?
Note that I said or whatever is [the] standard for representing
square-metres.
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publish measurements, without spaces, such as 4cm in the wild.
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andy Mabbett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Taylor Cowan's eelgant sugegstion in the Currency discussion:
http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-new/2007-September
/000915.html
talkes the form:
abbr class=currency title=USD100one hundred bucks/abbr
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Andy Mabbett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Taylor Cowan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Pretending to forget all that we've know up till now about
microformats, what if we just wanted a way for web page designers to
make their currency amounts
published are dated, or
cre4dit the author. But what else?
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published examples?
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Guillaume Lebleu
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Andy Mabbett wrote:
My preference would be to use the previously-described
[[title-trigger]] solution:
span class=hmoney title-trigger title=USD 0.1
10 cents
/span
In the latter, the rule
...
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ben
Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On 28 Sep 2007, at 13:03, Andy Mabbett wrote:
Then we run the risk of allowing the higher level microformats to
de-facto define the lower -level, (As hAudio is doing with
currency); effectively outside the process.
I mean
title-trigger title=USD 0.1
10 cents
/span
In the latter, the rule for the title is that it MUST contain only an
ISO 4217 currency code and a numeric value, (in either order) separated
by a space.
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In message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Frances
Berriman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On 28/09/2007, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Also, I've previously explained why historic amounts should be dated.
This could be achieved by:
span class=hmoney
...which cost
abbr
(optional)’
is familiar. I would think that ‘Required’ is implied by the
absence of ‘Optional’.
Agreed.
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pattern from the page containing the 10 cents
content
Andy Mabbett wrote:
Can you provide examples of people publishing such a legend,
alongside prices and other such monetary amounts?
See http://investor.google.com/fin_data.html - top legend. These are
very common in tabular reporting.
I don't
of the models already discovered.
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a fairly rare case (hardly any examples to date)
Examples of such usage have been provided; past experience is that
quantitative evidence is of little interest to the community.
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better.
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=duration title=2193:39/abbr)
/span
/div
Finally, please note that 3:39 is not an abbreviation of 219.
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for a note property to be included.
I'm also not clear why the property for sleeve artwork is called
image-summary and not just image.
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.
ISBN is not proprietary, neither are International Standard Music Number:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Music_Number
and the other, related identifiers listed at the foot of that page.
Perhaps we need type/ value pairs for them?
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, although the
title attributes seemed to cause problems with the Wiki markup, so I've
hyphenated-them-like-this as a work around.
If someone can add the necessary styling to the Wiki's CSS, then the
in-line styles can be removed.
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http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.553406
We should also be careful to distinguish /types/ of identifier
(catalogue number, UID, ISBN, Amazon-ASIN, etc.)
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On Fri, August 17, 2007 13:41, Martin McEvoy wrote:
Consider this pseudo-xhtml:
div class=hentry haudio
div class=entry-contentThis song is great/div
Shouldn't that be an hReview?
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problem, it will be solved by clarifying
parsing rules. If it doesn't become a significant problem, it's not
worth worrying about. Either way, it needn't influence our choice of
property names.
The issue isn't so much one of property /names/, as of property name
/granularity/.
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
I would suggest this:
span class=money¢abbr title=0.021 class=amount2.1/abbr
span class=currencyUSD/span/span
0.021 is not an abbreviation of 2.1.
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, Euros, Deutschmark, and Jamaican money.
Are there any modern day currenscies which are not decimal?
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Guillaume Lebleu
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Andy Mabbett wrote:
In the case of currency, I think we should polish and publish:
http://microformats.org/wiki/currency-brainstorming#Straw_man_proposal
I had came up with http://microformats.org/wiki/currency
publishing movie credits, such as on IMDb; and movies are /not/ simply
video clips.
There may well be a valid case for there being a microformat for each -
though I'd like to see the use-case for a movie microformat, as it's not
clear from this thread.
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; and hCalendar events can be added to calendars.
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In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Guillaume Lebleu
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Andy Mabbett wrote:
For instance, in ¢2.1 USD, the currency is USD, and the unit is
¢, but ¢ is not the symbol of currency USD.
How would you mark those up?
Here is a try, using the value class name:
span class
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Guillaume Lebleu
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
Andy Mabbett wrote:
For that reason, I'd like to see work done to make the currency and
measurement microformats complete - at least as usable drafts.
I'm willing to contribute more time on these. What do you see
this being raised now have the burden of
proof
Surely, by your own standards, the burden is on you, to provide evidence
to support your assertions? I note that you have not replied to my
previous suggestion that you do so.
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' attributes. In
other words - most websites are not using 'alt' attributes for 'img'
tags.
That's a bogus conclusion - empty alt attributes are perfectly valid,
and are appropriate in many cases; and you're counting tags but making
conclusions about most websites.
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) contains and
describes a 1948 article.
Then again, the latter, and the original enquirer's document, could,
perhaps, by wrapped in a citation microformat.
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http
parsing and thus should be
AVOIDED.
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing
In other words, the microformat parsing rules are non-compliant with the
HTML specification.
I think that's something which should be fixed.
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page an hCard, using:
class=vcard
That's valid.
then suppose I decide to include on my page an mp3 of my new hit
single...
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*, but it was something like
Blood on the Macs?
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- as evidence of use ?
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ought to be taking place on the new
microformats mailing list; I've cross-posted and set follow-ups, so
please reply there. Thank you.
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* Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http://www.no2id.net/
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In message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Joe
Osowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
[hReceipt]
TotalCost
[hPackage]
DeliveryCost
[hPurchase]
Cost
Without wishing to endorse or deprecate this proposal; please be aware
of the proposed currency microformat, when discussing amounts of
money.
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-party site, offering an audio track
as a free sample (or vice versa). Later, that latter site decides to
start charging for the track - how would the publisher know that their
site is no longer correct?
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#1 --
Roy Harper
/span
/span
span class=fn!-- fn #2 --
Bullinamingvase
/span
/div
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code, than the awful FN!
How is FN supported, in preference to title or *-title by the
evidence gathered?
genre. optional. text.
genre sounds alot like TAGS or CATEGORIES to me? we should recycle
terms in existing microformats
What Andy Mabbett said... not all authors want to mark up
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Scott Reynen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
length - new class=length, or defer in first draft
Should be a measure format
price - new class=price, or defer in first draft
Should be a currency format
--
Andy Mabbett
* Say NO! to compulsory ID Cards: http
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
David Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
On 5/2/07, Andy Mabbett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In message
[EMAIL PROTECTED], David
Janes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
If you mean what most people do by title, then FN is the correct
thing to use.
How does that square
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