Guys, let's take the dBc discussion off list.
73,
Eric
Mooderator
/elecraft.com/
On 10/19/2016 6:35 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
On 10/19/2016 2:11 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
The "carrier" reference for other modulation is the peak of the
envelope.
Which means your dBc references should be labelle
On 10/19/2016 2:11 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
The "carrier" reference for other modulation is the peak of the
envelope.
Which means your dBc references should be labelled "dB PEP" for
the particular modulation. The reference to dBc is only strictly
accurate for the unmodulated carrier and possibly C
Gee, I thought I did. I told you how I made the measurements. Every data
point was picked off of the curves with the cursor. The SSB data is
relative to the highest peak in the envelope, not to the carrier, of
course, which is suppressed. The "carrier" reference for other
modulation is the peak
You didn't answer the question.
On 10/18/2016 4:47 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
The data is accumulated peaks for 30-40 seconds. Reference for dBC is the peak
of the waveform. That terminology is not appropriate, of course, for the SSB
data.
73, Jim
On Tue,10/18/2016 12:53 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:
Wha
The official response I got from the factory is that to have any of the IMD
mods done, the radio needs to be sent in to the factory.
Bill N0CU
--
View this message in context:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3S-QST-Article-tp7623462p7623522.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archi
- Original Message -
From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft"
To: "Jim Rogers" , "elecraft"
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 2:10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
Hi Jim - The 17 m harmonic problem was limited to the single review unit, which
we correcte
Gene N9TF
> K3S 10057
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft"
> To: "Jim Rogers" , "elecraft"
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 2:10:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
>
> Hi Jim - Th
of specifications?
>
> Thanks and 73, Gene N9TF
> K3S 10057
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft"
> To: "Jim Rogers" , "elecraft"
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 2:10:17 PM
> Subject: Re:
The data is accumulated peaks for 30-40 seconds. Reference for dBC is
the peak of the waveform. That terminology is not appropriate, of
course, for the SSB data.
73, Jim
On Tue,10/18/2016 12:53 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:
What method(s) did you use to verify the accuracy of your dB(c)
numbers? I
That's harmonics which the FCC regulates to -43 dBc or better, better
being a bigger number, on 160-10m, and -60dBc for 6 meters and up. That
number IS regulated.
That is not the same as two tone TX IMD which is specified by Elecraft
as around -30dB, and NOT regulated by the FCC, because most
Gene N9TF
K3S 10057
- Original Message -
From: "Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft"
To: "Jim Rogers" , "elecraft"
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 2:10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
Hi Jim - The 17 m harmonic problem was limited to the sing
What method(s) did you use to verify the accuracy of your dB(c) numbers? I get
a little queasy when I see "-48.5 dBc."
On 10/18/2016 10:51 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
On Tue,10/18/2016 3:43 AM, Yngvi (TF3Y) wrote:
How fast does IMD deteriorate with increased power from the K3S or K3?
What are the I
I have received a response to my posts from Eric and understand that the
17M harmonic problem I was concerned about was limited to the test unit
supplied to ARRL.
I am a happy camper!
Jim, W4ATK
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://
Many thanks for sharing this Jim.
Very ambitious and informative.
73, Yngvi TF3Y
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Jim Brown
wrote:
> On Tue,10/18/2016 3:43 AM, Yngvi (TF3Y) wrote:
>
>> How fast does IMD deteriorate with increased power from the K3S or K3?
>>
>> What are the IMD figures when ru
Hi Jim - The 17 m harmonic problem was limited to the single review unit, which
we corrected. All others shipped were/are OK on 17M.
73,
Eric
/elecraft.com/
On 10/18/2016 11:38 AM, Jim Rogers wrote:
To all who responded, certainly my friend Don and others
"During initial testing, we foun
To all who responded, certainly my friend Don and others
"During initial testing, we found that the second harmonic on 17 meters
measured 42 dB below the fundamental, well below the specified >50 dB we
measured on the other bands. We returned the transceiver to Elecraft for
repair and they
Like Bill, I operate with several other hams for Field Day, CQP, 7QP
(7th Area QSO Party), and VHF grid trips. Field Day is a single K3 for
HF and a KX3 for the VHF station. We run 1A battery/solar. CQP and 7QP
are multi-transmitter, K3/P3SVGA/KPA500 and run from Honda 2000i
generators. These v
On Tue,10/18/2016 3:43 AM, Yngvi (TF3Y) wrote:
How fast does IMD deteriorate with increased power from the K3S or K3?
What are the IMD figures when running 20-25W driving a linear amp. such as
the KPA500?
I've looked carefully at this, and so has my neighbor Bob Wolbert, K6XX,
who is an engin
We sent an earlier posting showing which serial numbers already had the new
upgrades:
KPA3A upgrade incorporated starting with serial number:
Factory assembled: s/n 10852
Kit:s/n 10864
LPA module upgrade incorporated starting with serial number:
Fact
n2cei FL
CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/
On Tue, 10/18/16, Bill Frantz wrote:
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Date: Tuesday, October 18, 2016, 7:04 AM
Since June, my K3 went
ou
If the serial number is 10939 or greater, the change has already been
installed.
At slightly lower serial numbers (10852 and above) it may or may not
have been installed - it depends on whether it is a kit or factory
assembly and whether it is a K3S/10 or K3S/100.
If you are in the 'questionable
Is this there a SN after which these upgrades are automatically included in
all K3S's?
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 10:56 PM, Jan Erik Holm wrote:
> Wayne,
>
> Is there a way to do this " at home" ? Since I´m in Sweden
> it might not be practical to send the radio all the way to
> California for this
On 10/17/2016 8:48 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
What would be a practical way to actually introduce such a change? Lay out
all the specifics involved. Let's see your critical path item by item plan.
It's cheep and easy to just blurt out "they oughta go to 28 volts."
Provide an *optional* 28V P
Since June, my K3 went out for the California QSO Party (CQP), a
special event station from Ely NV, and field day. Field day and
CQP were solar powered battery. The Ely event ended up being
battery because the generator was putting out S9 noise. The
field day was QRP while CQP and Ely were at 1
This is an interesting thread but I wonder about the practicalities... Of
course we all want to emit a clean signal.
In which cases might the IMD be a problem? Running full power off a battery
with voltage dropping?
Running almost full power to drive an older type tube amp?
How fast does IMD dete
1. W4ATK seems overly indignant about a "compliance" spec he doesn't
even understand.
2. And while I've been a bit chagrined about it myself in the past,
anybody who doesn't understand that Elecraft's chosen business model is
centered around portable gear (which includes motor home and cab
Thanks, Wayne. This thread has been very interesting!
73
Matt NQ6N/9
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 10:40 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> Our entire product line emphasizes portability, so we'll just have to
> continue the never-ending search for 12 volt mojo. (Note: the new Upgrade
> is a case of this; IM
Our entire product line emphasizes portability, so we'll just have to continue
the never-ending search for 12 volt mojo. (Note: the new Upgrade is a case of
this; IMD is improved when running from lower voltages.)
Stick with Elecraft and minimize your carbon footprint!
73,
Wayne
N6KR
On Oct
Wayne,
Is there a way to do this " at home" ? Since I´m in Sweden
it might not be practical to send the radio all the way to
California for this.
73 Jim SM2EKM
--
On 2016-10-17 02:25, Wayne Burdick wrote:
Knut,
The K3S as originally shipped does not
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Kevin wrote:
> The problem I have is accepting the status quo by Elecraft. Just because
> everybody else is around -30dB shouldn't mean Elecraft stop trying to do
> better. Let the portable/backpacking rigs use 12V MOSFETS and switch the
> desktop model K3(s) to h
and wants in a radio and a 60 pound monster
with 200 watts and built in power supply for 48 -60 volts, may not be one of
them. Jim K4JAF
-Original Message-
From: Kevin
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 6:47 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
Hmm
Hmm, compliance with what? The rig meets Elecraft specs and since the
FCC doesn't regulate TX IMD there is nothing to comply with.
The problem I have is accepting the status quo by Elecraft. Just because
everybody else is around -30dB shouldn't mean Elecraft stop trying to do
better. Let the p
Charlie,
You hit the nail on the head.
Mark Musick, WB9CIF
-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Charlie T, K3ICH
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 9:04 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
Now, I may be
Jim,
Your new rig had nothing "defective." It was "in compliance" when you bought
it. Subsequent to your buying it, that particular in-compliance specification
has been improved. There is nothing for Elecraft to fix because there is
nothing broken. No warranty extends to future improvements
Jim,
Elecraft sold you a K3S that *was* in compliance and will still be if
you do nothing. See Wayne's post yesterday. They improved the Transmit
IMD for the current K3S and are offering to make that change to older K3S.
They are going out of their way to add the change to your K3S free of
I would offer a
retraction.
I have been known to stick my foot in my mouth on more than one occasion.
73, Charlie k3ICH
-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Rogers
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 4:42 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
point I would offer a
retraction.
I have been known to stick my foot in my mouth on more than one occasion.
73, Charlie k3ICH
-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Rogers
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 4:42 PM
To: elecraft@m
I have been a loyal Elecrafter for many years, and this seems to be
somewhat similar to the VW diesel problem.
Elecraft has sold me a radio specifying it to be in compliance with
specifications of IMD. Now you are telling me that I must bear the
burden of time and expense to bring the device y
How about a user adjustable amplifier on set point? In my case there is a
2 watt jump when going from 12 to 13 watts and if a person wanted a
smoother output in that range for an amp or whatever it would be possible.
John KK9A
from: Wayne Burdick n6kr
Wes,
This would be a simple firmware chang
age
From: Wayne Burdick
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 8:26 PM
To: ab2tc
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
Knut,
The K3S as originally shipped does not have a design flaw. Like virtually all
12-V-class transceivers using currently available MOSFETs, it was alr
Knut,
The K3S as originally shipped does not have a design flaw. Like virtually all
12-V-class transceivers using currently available MOSFETs, it was already right
around -30 dBc or better, worst-case, for 3rd-order IMD. We simply found a way
to make it better by a few dB, and we're offering to
Bill,
Another good solution is LiFePO4 batteries, which have a relatively
flatter discharge curve than Lead-Acid, and that discharge curve is much
closer to 13V for LiFePO4 than 11.5V for Lead Acid. Yes, they're more
expensive to buy, but they last a lot longer.
73, Jim K9YC
On Sat,10/15/
The reason DC power systems in vehicles and aircraft used 28 V or less
historically is that that was the highest DC voltage that could be
switched mechanically without excessive arcing. (Has to do with the
energy required to pull electrons out of metals, I believe.) With the
solid state switc
Hi,
Well, as I remember it there was once a push to move to 48V for automotives
but that never happened (so far).
I was always skeptical on the wisdom on moving to FET finals at the 12V
level. Generally bipolars work better at this low voltage. FETs come come
into their own at higher voltages (24
Wayne,
For those of us with the unmodified KLPA3A (10 W module), can the mods be
done by a skilled engr/tech. If so, can the parts be made available as a
kit. If not, can just the module be sent in for modification instead of the
whole radio.
Bill N0CU
--
View this message in context:
http:/
Quote:
"Unless things have changed they test at one frequency and assume the other
bands produce the same results. "
Hi,
I don't believe this is true. The ARRL publishes a "typical" IMD figure and
a "worst case" figure which I assume to be the worst case for any band and
they they publish which b
There was a major initiative at least 15 years ago in the automotive
industry to go to 28 volt systems in order to reduce the cost and weight
of the heavier wires that were needed to cope with the expanding current
drain as more things in the car went electronic. Not sure what happened
to tha
ssage-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill
Frantz
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 8:33 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
It seems to me that this solution would tie the K3S++ to mains power. Being
tied to mains power would i
Wayne,
Ok, I'll defer to your numbers. Offhand I don't have mine handy, but I was
pretty amazed at how quickly the IMD rose above 10W. I'm not saying anything new
here, back in December in this thread
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Powering-a-K3s-from-a-battery-tt7611959.html#a7611980,
It seems to me that this solution would tie the K3S++ to mains
power. Being tied to mains power would impact my club's use of
K3s with batteries on events like the California QSO party. (Our
location does not permit generators.) I don't know how much such
a restriction would shrink the K3S mark
----Original Message- From: Kevin
>> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 5:14 PM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
>>
>> The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much
>> improved
>> by moving to 24 or 50V
Wes,
This would be a simple firmware change, and it might be worth considering. But
typically we see -30 dBc or better at 12 W in production with the latest
revisions.
73,
Wayne
N6KR
On Oct 15, 2016, at 7:59 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:
> ….I would recommend that Elecraft change firmware to set t
ve Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, Arizona
-Original Message- From: Kevin
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 5:14 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much
improved
by moving to 24 or 50V finals.
Move the /K3s II/
My experience suggests that running the low power amp in a K3(S) above 10W is a
disaster. In a K3(S)/100 the HPA isn't activated until above 12W. IMHO, again
based only on my measurements of my K3 and my K3S (before mods), I would
recommend that Elecraft change firmware to set the max power out
The improvements we made this year (referenced in my previous posting) bring up
both worst-case and average performance of the K3S on all bands, at all power
levels.
Regarding the Yaesu radio that hit -38 dBc worst-case using the same PA
topology: luck of the draw. There are many factors, inclu
on it ever since?
Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, Arizona
-Original Message- From: Kevin
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 5:14 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much
improved
by moving to 24 or 50V fina
OK. I purchased the K3/10 in 2010 which is able to output up to 12w.
Is the low power amp any better at IMD, or subject to the same
limitations because its 12v transistors?
I bought the KXPA-100 last year. Would it be any better than the
KPA3 or KPA3A? 3rd-order IMD in the vicinity of -30 dB
K6LL
Yuma, Arizona
-Original Message-
From: Kevin
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 5:14 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much
improved
by moving to 24 or 50V finals.
Move the /K3s II/ to 50V fin
riday, October 14, 2016 8:14 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much improved by
moving to 24 or 50V finals.
Move the /K3s II/ to 50V finals, say a pair of MRF 150's, limited to 150 or
200W max output. Desi
The cause for this is the use of 12V finals. It would be much improved
by moving to 24 or 50V finals.
Move the /K3s II/ to 50V finals, say a pair of MRF 150's, limited to 150
or 200W max output. Design/Sell an outboard 50V switching supply capable
of 15-20A continuous current, with a 10A 12V s
> Based upon your experience and understanding of the issue, would an original
> K3 (not K3s) with the new synths have better TX IMD? In other words, is the
> poor TX IMD of the K3s a function of some part of the rig not associated with
> the new synths?
>
> Dave AB7E
Hi all,
This has not
I would not expect the synthesizer (old or new) to be a contributor the IMD
issue. Hopefully someone will correct me if that is a bad assumption. To me,
the primary issue appears to be the linearity of the two RF power
amplifiers.
During the course of my troubleshooting, I noticed that a number of
Hi all,
I, too. prefer the paper copy, but the mention of a K3S review got me too
intrigued, so I had to read it online.
As for the other comments in this thread, I find this situation more than a
little worrisome and certainly an official Elecraft response is hoped for.
Are the updates being tes
Based upon your experience and understanding of the issue, would an
original K3 (not K3s) with the new synths have better TX IMD? In other
words, is the poor TX IMD of the K3s a function of some part of the rig
not associated with the new synths?
Dave AB7E
On 10/14/2016 9:06 AM, Bill Le
I was not surprised to see a comment about the Tx IMDs in the QST article.
One of the first problems I encountered with my new K3s/10 was poor Tx IMD
performance. What I observed was flat topping that started at about 5W, and
progressively got worse as the power was increased. The distortion was so
Hi Knut,
Yes, I get a notification about the digital issue, but I prefer to read the
paper copy, so I wait. It did come yesterday so I've seen it now.
Wes
On 10/13/2016 5:35 PM, ab2tc wrote:
Hi Wes,
You can read it online. I received an Email link from ARRL to my online
copy.
AB2TC - Knut
Hi Wes,
You can read it online. I received an Email link from ARRL to my online
copy.
AB2TC - Knut
Wes Stewart-2 wrote
> I have not seen my QST yet. I think the mailman reads it first. But you
> ask an
> excellent question.
>
> On 10/13/2016 2:25 PM, ab2tc wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Very good revi
Good question that I would like to know the answer to.
Leroy AB7CE
-Original Message-
From: ab2tc
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2016 3:25 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S QST Article
Hi,
Very good review - for the most part.
I am concerned about the
I have not seen my QST yet. I think the mailman reads it first. But you ask an
excellent question.
On 10/13/2016 2:25 PM, ab2tc wrote:
Hi,
Very good review - for the most part.
I am concerned about the transmit IMD results mentioned only in a side bar
"Lab Notes: ..." on page 50. Initially
Hi,
Very good review - for the most part.
I am concerned about the transmit IMD results mentioned only in a side bar
"Lab Notes: ..." on page 50. Initially the transmit IMD in the original
review sample was less than stellar, but eventually got resolved by Elecraft
submitting a new review sample
Thank you for noticing :)
73,
Wayne
N6KR
On Oct 12, 2016, at 8:41 PM, "Dauer, Edward" wrote:
> The November issue of QST arrived in the mail today. Nice article about the
> K3S, in case anyone hasn’t yet seen it.
>
> Ted, KN1CBR
The November issue of QST arrived in the mail today. Nice article about the
K3S, in case anyone hasn’t yet seen it.
Ted, KN1CBR
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