[FairfieldLife] Re: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonybliss_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One lurker's view of the feud: I'll bet it felt good to get that off your chest. :-) You are welcome to your opinion, even though it seems that you are expressing it using a script that has been thoughtfully provided to you, and from behind a veil of anonymity. :-) I respond only to one part of your rant: snip A few posts back Rick made a point about living in the now: Imagine not even being able to go to a concert in a church in France and just enjoy it without spending your concert time making up a dark fantasy about how the history of that church is just like Maharishi oppressing people and forcing TM down their throats and then coming on here and writing about it. Talk about not living in the nowJust shuddup and enjoy the music already! The music was wonderful, thank you. Jordi Savall is a real musical treasure. But I think what you are really pissed off about ( and...talk about 'not living in the Now'...have been pissed off about and carrying around on your back for almost a week now, fuming about, getting more and more pissed off about until you finally had to let it out in a flamefest of your own :-) is that the history of that cathedral -- Catholics forcing Protestants to attend a mass they didn't believe in, for their own good, *IS* exactly like Maharishi declaring that people should be forced to practice TM. He has said this many times over the years. He clearly believes it. My point is simply that this makes him a religious fanatic, not a great seer. In taking this stance, he declares himself as someone who is *just* as fanatical as the Catholics who forced their neighbors to stand behind iron bars in a gallery and watch the real Christians hold their mass. And he declares himself as someone who cares as little about their sensitivities and beliefs as those 17th century Catholics cared about their Protestant neigh- bors. The clear message is, These people are *deluded*. They don't know The Truth and what is really good for them and *I* do. Therefore if they don't accept it on their own they should be *forced* to accept it. I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. If you believe similarly, that there is *ANY* situation in which you would support mandating TM, then I suggest that you have crossed that boundary, too. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/16/06 4:15:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It seems obvious to me that the reason Iran feels the need for insurance is to deter Israel and the U.S. from attacking *them*. Or, absolute worst case, to do a preemptive strike. That's what all the annihilation talk is about, to discourage us from messing with Iran. Nobody ever talked about messing with Iran until they became hell bent on building nuclear bombs. Their insurance has become their provocation towards Israel and the west. If all they ever really wanted was cheap nuclear energy for electricity everything could have been worked out. But it is obvious that is not all they wanted, they wanted the ability to enrich uranium so they could make weapons. And nobody in their right minds trusts the number 1 terrorist supporting country in the world with nukes. Er, the neocon agenda for 10 years has been Iraq followed by Iran or Syria followed by the other. Where you been? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/16/06 4:24:46 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Er, suitcase bombs are a tad more difficult to build than Little Boys... Er , but is there a reason why they couldn't? Er, since suitcase bombs are the end-result of decades of nuclear- bomb testing, yes, there is (obviously). Er, so the Iranians are starting from scratch? They don't have the benefit of any knowledge or technology that was developed before? So, I guess the Iranians must be decades away from developing a suit case nuke since they are doing all this on their own. Let's hope some soviet nuclear scientist didn't sell them the plans to build one. Or they, the Iranians are too stupid to figure it out. Hope is nice. Building a nuclear weapon means testing it, number one. Number two, the PLANS to build a suitcase bomb only work if you have the infrastructure in place to use those plans. Suitcase bombs are a heck of a lot more sophisticated than a Little Boy, and the Iranians aren't ready for building a Little Boy and won't be for at least 2-3 years according to the worst-case estimates. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/16/06 4:26:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, to a certain extent, the mere existence of Israel makes Moslem countries feel insecure for many, many reasons. Tell us why any Muslim country has to fear Israel. I didn't say they had legitimate reason to fear them, but it is obvious from the rhetoric that virtually all of them feel insecure/resentful about Israel. Part of that is no doubt propoganda to keep the peasants focused on an outside threat, and part of that may be inbred fear of outsiders on the part of the Arab and/or Moslem culture in the Middle East. Other factors no doubt play their part, but to suggest that the Moslem COuntries should just grow up or whatever you're suggesting is turning a blind eye to recent history. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/16/06 9:52:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does the phrase axis of evil ring a bell? Was that a regime change policy? North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Syria, maybe some others? I guess the Taliban as well (LOL). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: A point many have missed about David Lynch's success 'selling' TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/13/06 3:42 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm starting to think that David Lynch's real objec- tive is to SHAME the TM movement into doing what it should have been doing all along -- putting its *own* money where its mouth is with regard to how valuable it thinks TM is for people to learn. If that is his intention, I don't think it will work. They have no shame. Who they? David Lynch is now on the Board of Directors of MUM. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] If you believe similarly, that there is *ANY* situation in which you would support mandating TM, then I suggest that you have crossed that boundary, too. How do you mandate not-trying? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
From: peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times' Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 20:40:45 - --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/16/06 12:18:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And there are no suitcase nukes. This is the second time you say this. I thought nobody noticed the first time! How do you know? Originally I saw a documentary on TV debunking the story as a cold war myth, apparently the portable nukes the soviets had, were not all that portable and definately all accounted for when dismantled. Tere are plenty of sites on the net with the full story. Were you in charge of the Soviet nuclear suit case commando and now have have them all physically near yourself and/or did you yourself oversee their physical destruction? I can neither confirm or deny this rumour. I ask this without mentioning the innumerable other ways nuclear material may have escaped the former Soviet Union. When I referred to suit case nukes I wasn't referring to Soviet bombs. It seems to me that if Iran can develop it's own Nuclear bombs and under water missiles that travel over 200 miles an hour and are stealth like, is there some reason over the next few years they couldn't make their own suit case size nuclear bombs, perfect for handing off to terrorists to plant in the cities of their choices? The best guess is that now Iran has enriched uranium it will be ten years before they have the bomb. Suitcase nukes would require a far higher level of technology than that required for a ballistic missile sized device. So, nothing to worry about yet, unless you happen to live in the middle east of course as Iran will be bombed/invaded before much longer. I wonder what would have worse consequences, Iran having the bomb or another American invasion Once the cat is out of the bag, it's out! The cat was out of it's bag 60 years ago, I've always thought it only a matter of time before some nutter gets hold of one To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times' Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:55:52 EDT In a message dated 4/16/06 11:54:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And when Iran can send out 40,000 suicide bombers , some equipped with suit case size nukes, then what? According to reuters there are only 200 suicide volunteers. The 40,000 refered to are new recruits to the revolutionary guard. And there are no suitcase nukes. Yes Richard, and many are saying, why shouldn't Iran have nukes. One day they just might and why couldn't they develop suit case size nuclear bombs and hand them over to any number of these 200 or by then 40,000 recruits?We stand by and do nothing other than protest to the UN or even congratulate them on their advances in technology. Funny how the leaders of Iran are not held responsible for their rhetoric or their actions while leaders receiving the threats are held responsible for taking those threats seriously. I don't think any country should have them but it's a bit late for that. The nature of arms races is such that once Israel armed itself everyone in the middle east will. We can only hope that when it finally gets it's hands on something really dangerous, Iran will understand the concept of mutually assured destruction, not a great way to live but seeing as Israel has such obvious expansionist ambitions it's either that or another US invasion. I would guess though, that the people of Iran have had enough of western meddling in their affairs. They don't call us the great satan for nothing you know. For nearly a hundred years we have seen the middle east as little more than a filling station and knocked off any government that didn't want to play by our rules. And in those days no-one even complained to the UN because they were getting cheap oil too. You can't keep treating people like this, If there is such a thing as Karma I would say we are due! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. Amma agrees with you; she says one way for all is dangerous and even when finally she allowed the Swamis to teach a technique She Herself never promoted it from my experience of 5 months at Her Ashram; the technique was offered for free; there were several courses set up; devotees could take it or not; after that, practice it or not; Her big teaching is that anything done with love will bring spiritual fruit and anything done without love, even meditation, will not bring spiritual fruit. And BTW, there is a technique that is much much more effortless than TM. It is LOVE. After hugging 30,000 in 22 hours, someone asked if Amma was tired. Amma replied where there is LOVE, there is NO EFFORT NO EFFORT while actively hugging devotees; not simply sitting with eyes closed, etc. Amma does inspire( not promote, but inspire from within ) selfless-service a lot as well as many many spiritual practices of people's choosing. Just something to contemplate. Namaste, anatol Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 15, 2006, at 9:45 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: [...] I suggest you read The Buddhist Tradition of Samatha: Methods for Refining and Examining Consciousness. Journal of Consciousness Studies, 6, No. 2-3, 1999. pp. 175-187. It is available at: http://alanwallace.org/Wallace-Samatha.pdf You'll see the model of meditation does go quite a bit deeper and further, so one would expect the results will be different. Funny, I was just thinking, as I read it, that it doesn't go very deep at all, so one would expect the results to be different... I am actually quite serious: I really do believe that the technique desribed in the pdf is quite distorted and won't go as deep as TM. Ironically for the very reason why it asserts that it goes deep: it advocates control and makes value-judgements about getting lost in thoughts, The TM insight is that getting lost in thoughts in integral to the process -- its the outer stroke where healing takes place. Without that healing, you won't have the long-term opportunity to go deeper. Now, is this TM insight valid, and are all (or any, for that matter) Samatha techniques taught in such a way that the description of them is valid, and does it matter? Who can say? My belief, for what it is worth, is that the TM insight IS valid and my prediction is that even with 8 hours/day practice by the test subjects for a year (this being what the research design for the Samatha Project apparently calls for), Samatha pratitioners will not show the same broad-based EEG coherence found after 4 months of regular TM practice and that even the most experienced Samatha practitioners of 50,000 hours practice or whatever won't show any breath suspension during meditation practice. This last is a freebie since when it happens, its quite dramatic, and even the most dedicated Buddhist practitioners haven't shown signs of breath suspension, at least as reported in any research published in the last few decades. My son scanned the pdf over my shoulder and I asked him if it sounded like it was as easy as TM. He pointed out the effort and control passages and agreed with me that it sounded like TM practice that had gotten distorted over time. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Iran
What counts are the facts on the ground: i.a. the momentum Iran and the world is caught up in, as represented by Iran's current leadership. Find below an attempt to aid the serious seeker for information. IRAN'S NUCLEAR AND MISSILE PROGRAMS: http://www.hsfk.de/downloads/Panel1%20-%20Cordesman.pdf INTERNAL AFFAIRS: http://www.rferl.org/reports/iran-report http://www.merip.org/mero/mero011805.html RECENT DEVELOPMENTS.. [GOOGLE] http://news.google.com/news?as_q=iran+terrorsvnum=10as_scoring=rhl=enned=usie=UTF-8btnG=Google+Searchas_epq=as_oq=as_eq=as_nsrc=as_nloc=as_occt=anyas_drrb=qas_qdr=as_mind=18as_minm=3as_maxd=17as_maxm=4 [BBC] http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?scope=newsukfstab=newsedition=dq=Irango.x=0go.y=0go=go GREAT RECENT BACKGROUND ON IRAN AND U.S. FAILURE'S IN THE MIDDLE EAST: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/104-5257491-0240728?%5Fencoding=UTF8dym=0search-type=ssindex=stripbooks%3Arelevance-abovefield-keywords=Robert%20Baer To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Last Video from the MD course
Here you can see the latest excesses at Mother Divine on Video. Watch how MD gets up in the morning after a blissful sleep,how they float to do common Asanas before jumping high. Also some male staff members are seen. MD Video set to Shakira music To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:58 AM, sparaig wrote: I am actually quite serious: I really do believe that the technique desribed in the pdf is quite distorted and won't go as deep as TM. Ironically for the very reason why it asserts that it goes deep: it advocates control and makes value-judgements about getting lost in thoughts, Actually in this method people would eventually transcend for significantly longer amounts of time, the important thing being meditational stability and vividness. It is only when you are able to dive deep enough and long enough, do the emotional and mental obscurations dissolve. And of course you do return back to discursive thought. It does not advocate control but leaves it to the individual to find a medium between attention and total relaxation. When this is not done properly you get problems like those often seen in TM: falling asleep and slouching, bad asana or posture--see the old thread here on torpor during TM practice and the numerous reports of sleeping during TM. For a good example of bad vs. good posture see the CBS sunday morning video recently which showed slouching TMer's and then a group of mindfulness meditators in excellent posture. If you talk to experienced meditators who observe TMers, one of the common observations is that TMers don't know how to sit. And it causes problems, particularly with excessive thoughts. The TM insight is that getting lost in thoughts in integral to the process -- its the outer stroke where healing takes place. Without that healing, you won't have the long-term opportunity to go deeper. All beginning meditators will have an aspect of their practice where they return to discursive thought and then return to their meditative object. If you read the article (which it would seem you did not) you would see clearly where the mechanics of this are clearly described as the preliminary stages of this method--but it is only a beginning part. Eventually attentional stability and vividness increase. Not attaining this and being stuck in continuous patterns of discursive thought is likened to trying to look at a star through a telescope while bouncing about on a bicycle--there is no stability with which examine consciousness with. This last is a freebie since when it happens, its quite dramatic, and even the most dedicated Buddhist practitioners haven't shown signs of breath suspension, at least as reported in any research published in the last few decades. TM has a lowered metabolic rate (in terms of O2 consumption) that is only about 1% different than sleeping. Advanced Buddhist meditators go about 6 times deeper than that. My son scanned the pdf over my shoulder and I asked him if it sounded like it was as easy as TM. He pointed out the effort and control passages and agreed with me that it sounded like TM practice that had gotten distorted over time. Actually the techniques mentioned in the article have a long and continuous history of producing fully enlightened Buddhas. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:58 AM, sparaig wrote: I am actually quite serious: I really do believe that the technique desribed in the pdf is quite distorted and won't go as deep as TM. Ironically for the very reason why it asserts that it goes deep: it advocates control and makes value-judgements about getting lost in thoughts, Actually in this method people would eventually transcend for significantly longer amounts of time, the important thing being meditational stability and vividness. It is only when you are able to dive deep enough and long enough, do the emotional and mental obscurations dissolve. And of course you do return back to discursive thought. It does not advocate control but leaves it to the individual to find a medium between attention and total relaxation. When this is not done properly you get problems like those often seen in TM: falling asleep and slouching, bad asana or posture--see the old thread here on torpor during TM practice and the numerous reports of sleeping during TM. For a good example of bad vs. good posture see the CBS sunday morning video recently which showed slouching TMer's and then a group of mindfulness meditators in excellent posture. If you talk to experienced meditators who observe TMers, one of the common observations is that TMers don't know how to sit. And it causes problems, particularly with excessive thoughts. Or perhaps this is all projection on your part... The TM insight is that getting lost in thoughts in integral to the process -- its the outer stroke where healing takes place. Without that healing, you won't have the long-term opportunity to go deeper. All beginning meditators will have an aspect of their practice where they return to discursive thought and then return to their meditative object. If you read the article (which it would seem you did not) you would see clearly where the mechanics of this are clearly described as the preliminary stages of this method--but it is only a beginning part. Eventually attentional stability and vividness increase. Not attaining this and being stuck in continuous patterns of discursive thought is likened to trying to look at a star through a telescope while bouncing about on a bicycle--there is no stability with which examine consciousness with. How does consciousnes examine itself? And what the hell is discursive thought? This last is a freebie since when it happens, its quite dramatic, and even the most dedicated Buddhist practitioners haven't shown signs of breath suspension, at least as reported in any research published in the last few decades. TM has a lowered metabolic rate (in terms of O2 consumption) that is only about 1% different than sleeping. Advanced Buddhist meditators go about 6 times deeper than that. But is this a good thing? What does it mean? What is the relationship between O2 consumption and transcendence? What is the relationship between o2 consumption and health? My son scanned the pdf over my shoulder and I asked him if it sounded like it was as easy as TM. He pointed out the effort and control passages and agreed with me that it sounded like TM practice that had gotten distorted over time. Actually the techniques mentioned in the article have a long and continuous history of producing fully enlightened Buddhas. Of course they do... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually the techniques mentioned in the article have a long and continuous history of producing fully enlightened Buddhas. Yeah, but they're not TM, so how good can they possibly be? Get a grip, man. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:22 AM, sparaig wrote: It does not advocate control but leaves it to the individual to find a medium between attention and total relaxation. When this is not done properly you get problems like those often seen in TM: falling asleep and slouching, bad asana or posture--see the old thread here on torpor during TM practice and the numerous reports of sleeping during TM. For a good example of bad vs. good posture see the CBS sunday morning video recently which showed slouching TMer's and then a group of mindfulness meditators in excellent posture. If you talk to experienced meditators who observe TMers, one of the common observations is that TMers don't know how to sit. And it causes problems, particularly with excessive thoughts. Or perhaps this is all projection on your part... Actually it's the direct experience of many TMers. There are typically two prerequisites for mantra-diksha: one is posture, the other is correct breathing. What you find when this is ignored is problems arise which could have been prevented if you are just taught the proper way in the first place. But that's what happens when the purity of the tradition is distorted, a common feature of some McMeditation techniques. All beginning meditators will have an aspect of their practice where they return to discursive thought and then return to their meditative object. If you read the article (which it would seem you did not) you would see clearly where the mechanics of this are clearly described as the preliminary stages of this method--but it is only a beginning part. Eventually attentional stability and vividness increase. Not attaining this and being stuck in continuous patterns of discursive thought is likened to trying to look at a star through a telescope while bouncing about on a bicycle--there is no stability with which examine consciousness with. How does consciousnes examine itself? I thought the article answered this very nicely. Are you sure you read it? And what the hell is discursive thought? Mind chatter. In Sanskrit it is called vitarka. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:18 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually the techniques mentioned in the article have a long and continuous history of producing fully enlightened Buddhas. Yeah, but they're not TM, so how good can they possibly be? Get a grip, man. Gives me another bumper-sticker idea: I'd Rather Be Unstressing To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:22 AM, sparaig wrote: It does not advocate control but leaves it to the individual to find a medium between attention and total relaxation. When this is not done properly you get problems like those often seen in TM: falling asleep and slouching, bad asana or posture--see the old thread here on torpor during TM practice and the numerous reports of sleeping during TM. For a good example of bad vs. good posture see the CBS sunday morning video recently which showed slouching TMer's and then a group of mindfulness meditators in excellent posture. If you talk to experienced meditators who observe TMers, one of the common observations is that TMers don't know how to sit. And it causes problems, particularly with excessive thoughts. Or perhaps this is all projection on your part... Actually it's the direct experience of many TMers. There are typically two prerequisites for mantra-diksha: one is posture, the other is correct breathing. What you find when this is ignored is problems arise which could have been prevented if you are just taught the proper way in the first place. But that's what happens when the purity of the tradition is distorted, a common feature of some McMeditation techniques. Or perhaps TM is pure and yours isn't... All beginning meditators will have an aspect of their practice where they return to discursive thought and then return to their meditative object. If you read the article (which it would seem you did not) you would see clearly where the mechanics of this are clearly described as the preliminary stages of this method--but it is only a beginning part. Eventually attentional stability and vividness increase. Not attaining this and being stuck in continuous patterns of discursive thought is likened to trying to look at a star through a telescope while bouncing about on a bicycle--there is no stability with which examine consciousness with. How does consciousnes examine itself? I thought the article answered this very nicely. Are you sure you read it? Only if you accept certain definitions of consciousness as valid... And what the hell is discursive thought? Mind chatter. In Sanskrit it is called vitarka. So what of emotive thought? Is that discursive? What of profoundly intuitive thought? Is that discursive? Etc. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:18 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Actually the techniques mentioned in the article have a long and continuous history of producing fully enlightened Buddhas. Yeah, but they're not TM, so how good can they possibly be? Get a grip, man. Gives me another bumper-sticker idea: I'd Rather Be Unstressing So where is the mention of witnessing sleep in all of this? Wallace (the Samatha researcher) doesn't mention it that I saw. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:51 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:22 AM, sparaig wrote: It does not advocate control but leaves it to the individual to find a medium between attention and total relaxation. When this is not done properly you get problems like those often seen in TM: falling asleep and slouching, bad asana or posture--see the old thread here on torpor during TM practice and the numerous reports of sleeping during TM. For a good example of bad vs. good posture see the CBS sunday morning video recently which showed slouching TMer's and then a group of mindfulness meditators in excellent posture. If you talk to experienced meditators who observe TMers, one of the common observations is that TMers don't know how to sit. And it causes problems, particularly with excessive thoughts. Or perhaps this is all projection on your part... Actually it's the direct experience of many TMers. There are typically two prerequisites for mantra-diksha: one is posture, the other is correct breathing. What you find when this is ignored is problems arise which could have been prevented if you are just taught the proper way in the first place. But that's what happens when the purity of the tradition is distorted, a common feature of some McMeditation techniques. Or perhaps TM is pure and yours isn't.. Actually I was thinking of the Shankaracharya and Patanjali traditions...yeah maybe Patanjali got it all wrong... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:51 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:22 AM, sparaig wrote: It does not advocate control but leaves it to the individual to find a medium between attention and total relaxation. When this is not done properly you get problems like those often seen in TM: falling asleep and slouching, bad asana or posture--see the old thread here on torpor during TM practice and the numerous reports of sleeping during TM. For a good example of bad vs. good posture see the CBS sunday morning video recently which showed slouching TMer's and then a group of mindfulness meditators in excellent posture. If you talk to experienced meditators who observe TMers, one of the common observations is that TMers don't know how to sit. And it causes problems, particularly with excessive thoughts. Or perhaps this is all projection on your part... Actually it's the direct experience of many TMers. There are typically two prerequisites for mantra-diksha: one is posture, the other is correct breathing. What you find when this is ignored is problems arise which could have been prevented if you are just taught the proper way in the first place. But that's what happens when the purity of the tradition is distorted, a common feature of some McMeditation techniques. Or perhaps TM is pure and yours isn't.. Actually I was thinking of the Shankaracharya and Patanjali traditions...yeah maybe Patanjali got it all wrong... Nyah. Maharishi just understands Patanjali and you don't. Etc. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:52 AM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:18 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Actually the techniques mentioned in the article have a long and continuous history of producing fully enlightened Buddhas. Yeah, but they're not TM, so how good can they possibly be? Get a grip, man. Gives me another bumper-sticker idea: "I'd Rather Be Unstressing"So where is the mention of witnessing sleep in all of this? Wallace (the Samatha researcher) doesn't mention it that I saw. No he doesn't, although the techniques of witnessing are commonly applied nightly by practitioners of this tradition. He does teach how to do it.DREAMING AND AWAKENING A 10-day Residential Training Program in Lucid Dreaming and Tibetan Dream Yoga with Stephen LaBerge and Alan Wallace Kalani, Hawaii, May 10-19, 2006 Join us for ten days and nine nights of balanced fun and focus on consciousness, dreaming and awakening at the beautiful, dream-inspiring Kalani Oceanside Retreat Center on the Big Island of Hawaii. Using the most effective techniques and technology, derived from Tibetan dream yoga and Western science, this workshop will provide an ideal opportunity to devote time to cultivating your lucid dreaming skills and enhancing mindfulness in waking life. Our program will feature group and individual exercises for developing awareness skills and valuable insights into the application of lucidity; a sleep schedule optimized for the promotion of lucid dreams; use of lucid dream induction technology; discussion sessions and personal guidance. Participants will also have a unique opportunity to participate in ongoing research on a natural substance that, according to recent studies, has been shown to be an effective promoter of lucidity. We will practice meditation and other techniques, especially drawn from the "Great Perfection" (Dzogchen) tradition of Tibetan Buddhism, designed to enhance the serenity, stability, and vividness of attention. The aim of such training is to experience the nature of our own awareness, free of all conceptual constructs. Such meditative training is an excellent complement to the Tibetan practices of dream yoga. We shall also explore the practical and theoretical differences and common ground between the modern scientific approach to lucid dreaming and the ancient Tibetan approach to dream yoga. The stunning environment of Kalani, the only coastal lodging facility within Hawaii's largest conservation area, will be naturally conducive to lifting our minds out of limiting habits of thought and action. Participants in our past workshops have found it a wonderful combination of work and play, and enjoyed phenomenal success at lucid dreaming, with most having at least one during the program. For testimonials, see: http://lucidity.com/daa/testimonials.html Join us this May and be assured that, in addition to having lots of fun and making new friends, you will experience reality in a new light, and the principles of lucid dreaming you will learn will serve you well in discovering what is important for you in your life, day and night. ABOUT THE PRESENTERS Stephen LaBerge, Ph.D. is a world renowned authority on lucid dreaming. His pioneering studies at Stanford University have brought scientific attention to this potentially illuminating state of consciousness, and his best-selling books Lucid Dreaming and Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, have introduced many to the experience. For the past 20 years, Dr. LaBerge has researched methods for teaching people to become lucid dreamers, developing techniques and lucid dreaming induction devices. B. Alan Wallace, Ph.D., a scholar and practitioner of Buddhism since 1970, has taught Buddhist theory and meditation throughout Europe and the Americas for 30 years. He devoted fourteen years to training as a Tibetan Buddhist monk and was ordained by the Dalai Lama. He also earned an undergraduate degree in physics and the philosophy of science at Amherst College and a doctorate in religious Studies at Stanford University. Currently Dr. Wallace is the president of the Santa Barbara Institute for Consciousness Studies http://www.sbinstitute.com/ SCHEDULE Wednesday evening, May 10 - Friday morning, May 19, 2006. [BAW is scheduled to present May 13-17.] To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:52 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:18 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Actually the techniques mentioned in the article have a long and continuous history of producing fully enlightened Buddhas. Yeah, but they're not TM, so how good can they possibly be? Get a grip, man. Gives me another bumper-sticker idea: I'd Rather Be Unstressing So where is the mention of witnessing sleep in all of this? Wallace (the Samatha researcher) doesn't mention it that I saw. No he doesn't, although the techniques of witnessing are commonly applied nightly by practitioners of this tradition. He does teach how to do it. Lucid dreaming is different than witnessing dreaming. Even the lucid dreaming folk (other than these guys apparently) make that distinction these days. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 9:19 AM, sparaig wrote: Lucid dreaming is different than witnessing dreaming. Even the lucid dreaming folk (other than these guys apparently) make that distinction these days. The techniques work for witnessing ALL states, including waking. In terms of spiritual practice all are helpful. For example if you learn to meditate *while* in the dream state, you can extend your practice considerably and work out issues impossible to do in waking. What's neat is to see how dreams arise out the the deep sleep state and then dissolve back into it. It's like having your own holodeck! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Today's Neo-Satsang: Devotion in Unity
Neo Advaita Satsang with Ashtavakra My child, you may often speak upon various scriptures or hear them. But cannot be established in the Self unless you forget all. AG XVI.1 He who considers himself free is free indeed, and he who considers himself bound remains bound. 'as one thinks, so one becomes' is a popular saying in this world, and it is quite true. AG I.11 You are unattached, actionless, self-effulgent, and without any blemish. This is indeed your bondage that you practise meditation. AG I.15 The person with a keen intellect becomes enlightened even when the instruction is imparted casually, whereas without it the immature seaker continues to remain confused even after a life-time of seeking AG XV.1 Perception of Unity by Jnanadeva in Amritanubhava I came across the name of Jnanadeva or Jnaneshwara, when I first heard his Commentary of the Gita sung by Lata. When I visited Ramesh first time 2 years ago, I was heart-struck while listening to the Abhangas recited at the end of his Satsang. For me there was a sense of recognition and I had tears in my eyes. So I learned that the Abhangas were devotional and knowledge inspired poems by Tukaram and Jnanadeva and someone else who's name I forgot. So in sthe spiritual bookstore which has all the Nisargadatta and Ramesh books, Chetana in Mumbai I got a copy of Amritanubhava by Jnanadeva. What shall I say, Jnanadeva lived 700 years ago is famous for his Gita commentary cum translation into Marathi, and he finished all this work before he was 21, I think dying at about this time. I'm glad he didn't wait for another 20 years to have his enlightenment confirmed by the local Zen center. The Ninth Chapter is entiteled Jivanmukta-dashakthana. Its all about life in Unity as you can easily see, and I have not come over a similar ecstatic description of it. He also makes clear what the role of devotion is in such a state. As a side note to Vaj - obviously Jivan Mukti does NOT refere to CC, as you have always wrongly concluded. I also now understand why Maharishi used to say, that the Bhagavatam is only really applying to someone in Unity - as devotion is really exploring and fathoming the depth of Unity only. Self-referral sensory interaction in Unity Now fragrance turned into nose, ears sprouted from sound and mirrors became eyes.IX.1 Fans became oscillating with their own breeze, heads blossomed into Champaks exuding aroma IX.2 The tongue turned into juice, the lotus bloomed as sun, and the Chakor (patridge) became the moon IX.3 While the transactions of new and evernew experiences go on with great fanfare in the state of inactivity there is no awareness at all of what is going on. IX.9 At the mention of the sense objects the crowd of all sense faculties rush toward them 10 however, just as the vision, as soon as it comes in contact with the mirror reverts and merges into itself, such becomes the state of rushing faculties 11 when one stretches his hand to collect ripples what is obtained is nothing but water. 13 When various sense faculties like ears etc get ready to grab the objects of senses like words etc., 16 no sooner is their contact established than they realize that those are not their objects and that their contact was false. 17 the pieces of sugarcane are all in the juice (in juice form) like the lustre of(various digits) of the moon is found in the full-moon. 18 or just as the moon light sheds light on the moon or rains shower on the sea so the sense organs fall on their objects. 19 Therefore, even though the faculty of speech may talk whatever it pleases the silence of the super-conscious state is not disturbed. 20 Non-doership in Unity Here (in the state of liberation) active participation in worldly activities comes to an end, non-participation gets prominence; all experiences take place directly under the observation of the Atman 28 [In that state of Jnani the volitional attitude is only an apparent one - all actions actually take place spontaneously -transl by Ramesh] In the courtyard of duality monism of its own accord comes to serve and as the differences widen the unity is doubled (becomes stronger) 29 [The place of duality is gradually taken over by non-duality and the objective relationship gives way to non-objective relationship -transl by Ramesh] In such a state the enjoyment of sense objects surpases even the joy of liberation. In the abode of Devotion there is coalescence between the devotee and God. 30 [In the process of the normal working of the senses the subject/object relationship does not exist. - trans. b Ramesh] Here self-will is the moral code and unrestrained action is the state of super-consciousness. Such a state has the prestigious throne of liberation to occupy. 34 Devotion in the State of Unity Here the very God becomes the devotee, the very destination becomes the path and the entire universe becomes one single solitary resort 35 A ball starts moving on its own, strikes itself and
[FairfieldLife] New England Education weekend
This arrived via email recently. Check out the low cost of a WPA or residence course: The tour group of educators and scientists from the New England Conference on Children's Health and Education is coming to Antrim (New Hampshire, U.S.A.) during the weekend of May 5-7. Come and join us in Antrim for this special weekend with the opportunity for gaining deep rest on a World Peace Assembly or Residence Course and enjoy a special presentation by these nationally renowned educators and scientists during your course. There will be time for questions and answers and meetings for those interested in introducing Consciousness- Based Education in their communities. To apply call 603-588-4009 or apply on line at www.newengland.globalcountry.net, (Advanced Programs Page). WPA and Residence Course details Courses begin : evening of Friday May 5 Courses conclude: after lunch Sunday May 7 Cost: $115/night shared bath $150/night private bath To apply: please call 603-588-4009 or visit www.newengland.globalcountry.net, Advanced Programs page. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:58 AM, sparaig wrote: I am actually quite serious: I really do believe that the technique desribed in the pdf is quite distorted and won't go as deep as TM. Ironically for the very reason why it asserts that it goes deep: it advocates control and makes value- judgements about getting lost in thoughts, Actually in this method people would eventually transcend for significantly longer amounts of time, the important thing being meditational stability and vividness. It is only when you are able to dive deep enough and long enough, do the emotional and mental obscurations dissolve. And of course you do return back to discursive thought. It does not advocate control but leaves it to the individual to find a medium between attention and total relaxation. But of course this *is* control. The article even describes introspection as the quality control aspect of this approach. The remedy for counteracting laxity or inattention is said to be the cultivation of the will, which is here closely associated with intervention and effort. When this is not done properly you get problems like those often seen in TM: falling asleep and slouching, bad asana or posture But these are not considered problems in TM. snip If you talk to experienced meditators who observe TMers, one of the common observations is that TMers don't know how to sit. And it causes problems, particularly with excessive thoughts. But excessive thoughts are not considered a problem in TM. The TM insight is that getting lost in thoughts in integral to the process -- its the outer stroke where healing takes place. Without that healing, you won't have the long-term opportunity to go deeper. All beginning meditators will have an aspect of their practice where they return to discursive thought and then return to their meditative object. If you read the article (which it would seem you did not) you would see clearly where the mechanics of this are clearly described as the preliminary stages of this method--but it is only a beginning part. Eventually attentional stability and vividness increase. In the TM context, the idea is that the healing that takes place during the outer stroke ultimately makes possible what you call greater attentional stability and vividness. So what you say doesn't address Lawson's point at all. It appears from the article that the approach it describes assumes that cause and effect are the reverse of what is assumed in TM, which is typical of the differences between the TM teaching and traditional teaching. Not attaining this and being stuck in continuous patterns of discursive thought is likened to trying to look at a star through a telescope while bouncing about on a bicycle--there is no stability with which examine consciousness with. In the TM context, discursive thought during meditation is said to arise as a result of stress release, or the dissolution of impurities brought about by the deep rest of the innter stroke. The more impurities that are dissolved in this way, the fewer there are to arise and trigger discursive thought. So being stuck in patterns of discursive thought would be a self-limiting condition, like pouring water out of a bucket. Eventually there is no more water to be poured. (My metaphor, not TM's.) The point being that there is a very fundamental difference in understanding between TM and the approach you describe. Nothing in what you've said or in that article actually addresses this difference beyond mere contradiction. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Today's Neo-Satsang: Devotion in Unity
On Apr 17, 2006, at 9:34 AM, t3rinity wrote: As a side note to Vaj - obviously Jivan Mukti does NOT refere to CC, as you have always wrongly concluded. Actually that is not my conclusion but that of the official TM yoga- sutra translation by Shearer. It actually depends of the context. In the context of the jivan-mukti-viveka there is jivan-mukti and videha- mukti. Videha-mukti is Unity in that context. It is used differently in different contexts but Shearer presumably is echoing Mahesh in his comments, therefore those are the ones I would convey in the context of a TM conversation. That Vidyaranya explains the difference between the two, in terms of the Shankaracharya tradition, is also IMO significant. It is also a common distinction made in Advaita Vedanta. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 9:55 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 9:19 AM, sparaig wrote: Lucid dreaming is different than witnessing dreaming. Even the lucid dreaming folk (other than these guys apparently) make that distinction these days. The techniques work for witnessing ALL states, including waking. In terms of spiritual practice all are helpful. For example if you learn to meditate *while* in the dream state, you can extend your practice considerably and work out issues impossible to do in waking. What's neat is to see how dreams arise out the the deep sleep state and then dissolve back into it. It's like having your own holodeck! Will be interesting to see the research on these techniques... It's even more interesting to experience them yourself. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonybliss_ff no_reply@ wrote: One lurker's view of the feud: I'll bet it felt good to get that off your chest. :-) You are welcome to your opinion, even though it seems that you are expressing it using a script that has been thoughtfully provided to you, and from behind a veil of anonymity. :-) For the record, I have no idea who anonybliss is, nor have I communicated with him/her privately in any way. I respond only to one part of your rant: snip A few posts back Rick made a point about living in the now: Imagine not even being able to go to a concert in a church in France and just enjoy it without spending your concert time making up a dark fantasy about how the history of that church is just like Maharishi oppressing people and forcing TM down their throats and then coming on here and writing about it. Talk about not living in the nowJust shuddup and enjoy the music already! The music was wonderful, thank you. Jordi Savall is a real musical treasure. But I think what you are really pissed off about ( and...talk about 'not living in the Now'...have been pissed off about and carrying around on your back for almost a week now, fuming about, getting more and more pissed off about until you finally had to let it out in a flamefest of your own :-) is that the history of that cathedral -- Catholics forcing Protestants to attend a mass they didn't believe in, for their own good, *IS* exactly like Maharishi declaring that people should be forced to practice TM. Or, s/he has been observing Barry for some time, thought it might be helpful to present his/her observations in the feud context, and cited the church concert thing as a particularly salient example of Barry's obsession with TM/TMO/MMY. Note that s/he expressed no opinion as to whether Barry's Catholic/Protestant parallel was valid. For all Barry knows, s/he may think it's on the nose and a Very Bad Thing. (Whether MMY has ever seriously said he thought people should be forced to do TM is another question entirely. Since that would be impossible on its face, I'm a bit dubious.) snip I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. Plus which, no spiritual beliefs, of course, are required to practice TM, only the belief that the practice will be beneficial. And that, of course, can't be forced either. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: New England Education weekend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This arrived via email recently. Check out the low cost of a WPA or residence course: These don't seem so bad actually: = Course prices vary depending on location and type of accommodation (private or shared bath, etc.). Prices include vegetarian gourmet meals. » For specific prices at CT locations please visit http://www.tmprogram.org/courses.htm » Antrim Facility prices are: 2 nights private bath $300 2 nights shared bath $230 3 nights private bath $450 3 nights shared bath $345 1 week (7 nights) private bath $980 1 week (7 nights) shared bath $805 For TM-Sidhi Refresher Course WPA weekends add an additional $125. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:51 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: snip just taught the proper way in the first place. But that's what happens when the purity of the tradition is distorted, a common feature of some McMeditation techniques. Or perhaps TM is pure and yours isn't.. Actually I was thinking of the Shankaracharya and Patanjali traditions...yeah maybe Patanjali got it all wrong... Or maybe the interpretations of them you espouse got it all wrong. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Plus which, no spiritual beliefs, of course, are required to practice TM, only the belief that the practice will be beneficial. And that, of course, can't be forced either. You need not believe it to be beneficial, but only doing it to shut your significant other up... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 9:55 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 9:19 AM, sparaig wrote: Lucid dreaming is different than witnessing dreaming. Even the lucid dreaming folk (other than these guys apparently) make that distinction these days. The techniques work for witnessing ALL states, including waking. In terms of spiritual practice all are helpful. For example if you learn to meditate *while* in the dream state, you can extend your practice considerably and work out issues impossible to do in waking. What's neat is to see how dreams arise out the the deep sleep state and then dissolve back into it. It's like having your own holodeck! Will be interesting to see the research on these techniques... It's even more interesting to experience them yourself. I'm quite happy with TM and the TM-Sidhis thanks. Without substantial scientific evidence to convince me that there's something better out there, I see no reason for future experimentation. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 9:51 AM, authfriend wrote: When this is not done properly you get problems like those often seen in TM: falling asleep and slouching, bad asana or posture But these are not considered problems in TM. Obviously. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:51 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: snip just taught the proper way in the first place. But that's what happens when the purity of the tradition is distorted, a common feature of some McMeditation techniques. Or perhaps TM is pure and yours isn't.. Actually I was thinking of the Shankaracharya and Patanjali traditions...yeah maybe Patanjali got it all wrong... Or maybe the interpretations of them you espouse got it all wrong. Nonsense. Long-time traditions couldn't possibly be wrong about something. Only a non-enlightened person like MMY could possibly think that the tradition(s) that Vaj agrees with could possibly have some problems due to the telephone effect of oral traditions. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:58 AM, sparaig wrote: I am actually quite serious: I really do believe that the technique desribed in the pdf is quite distorted and won't go as deep as TM. Ironically for the very reason why it asserts that it goes deep: it advocates control and makes value- judgements about getting lost in thoughts, Actually in this method people would eventually transcend for significantly longer amounts of time But does depth correspond directly to longer periods of transcending? Or might it correspond to the level of impurities (stress) in the nervous system being dissolved (which manifest as discursive thoughts)? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] Plus which, no spiritual beliefs, of course, are required to practice TM, only the belief that the practice will be beneficial. And that, of course, can't be forced either. You need not believe it to be beneficial, but only doing it to shut your significant other up... Shutting your significant other up might well be perceived as a benefit. ;-) The point being that some motivation is required to sit down and meditate twice a day, but there can be a very wide range of motivations, not all of them necessarily a matter of spiritual belief. For that matter, one motivation might be to prove (to oneself or one's significant other or...) that the practice itself is NOT beneficial. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Feud--one lurker's view
on 4/16/06 10:53 PM, anon_couscous_ff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonybliss_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if they gave a war and nobody came? A general comment -- perhaps somewhat resonant with your thought. People have asked both Judy and Barry to either i) not react nor respond to each others posts, or ii) if that is not possble, then simply not to read the others posts -- even using a rule to disallow delivery. Why can't everyone take this advice. If Judy and Barry's bickering is too obnoxious, the solution is simple and non-obtrusive: i) simply don't react nor respond to either Barry or Judy, or ii) if that is not possble, then simply do not read the others posts -- even use a rule to disallow delivery. I don't use a rule, but I hit the delete button the moment I detect bickering. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 9:55 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: The techniques work for witnessing ALL states, including waking. In terms of spiritual practice all are helpful. For example if you learn to meditate *while* in the dream state, you can extend your practice considerably and work out issues impossible to do in waking. I agree completely. What's neat is to see how dreams arise out the the deep sleep state and then dissolve back into it. It's like having your own holodeck! Only better because it's real, not Memorex. ;-) Will be interesting to see the research on these techniques... It's even more interesting to experience them yourself. Some people prefer Memorex, and reading about other people's experiences. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 10:15 AM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:58 AM, sparaig wrote: I am actually quite serious: I really do believe that the technique desribed in the pdf is quite distorted and won't go as "deep" as TM. Ironically for the very reason why it asserts that it goes deep: it advocates control and makes value- judgements about getting lost in thoughts, Actually in this method people would eventually transcend for significantly longer amounts of timeBut does "depth" correspond directly to longer periodsof transcending? Or might it correspond to the level ofimpurities ("stress") in the nervous system beingdissolved (which manifest as discursive thoughts)?Presumably that's what research shows. When you can 'get down and stay down' the mind purifies spontaneously. The research I read on this was from the centerpointe people. They claim that you have to increase this "immersion" in PC slowly over a couple of years in most people, otherwise it's just too much unstressing to process.Wallace, in the aforementioned article, states that a purification does happen once one sustains the state for extended periods:"With the attainment of the ninth state called balanced placement, accomplished with the force of familiarization, only an initial impulse of will and effort is needed at the beginning of each meditation session; for after that, uninterrupted, sustained at- tention occurs effortlessly. Moreover, the engagement of the will, of effort, and inter- vention at this point is actually a hindrance. It is time to let the natural balance of the mind maintain itself without interference. (...)Even when one has reached the state of balanced placement, Samatha has still not been fully achieved. Its attainment is marked first by a dramatic shift in one’s nervous system, characterized briefly by a not unpleasant sense of heaviness and numbness on the top of the head. This is followed by an obvious increase in mental and then physi- cal pliancy, entailing a cheerfulness and lightness of the mind and a buoyancy and lightness of the body. Consequently, experiences of physical bliss and then mental bliss arise, which are temporarily quite overwhelming. But that rapture soon fades, and with their disappearance, the attention is sustained firmly and calmly upon the meditative object, and Samatha is fully achieved. The above claims concerning a shift in one’s nervous system and its consequences have to do with first-hand, empiri- cal, physiological experiences. It remains to be seen how, or whether, such a theory and the corresponding physiological changes can be detected objectively and under- stood in modern scientific terms. "
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[FairfieldLife] Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
on 4/17/06 1:27 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. I missed the post about the Catholic Church forcing people to attend mass, and about the comparison with the TMO, if that was made, but Maharishi did used to joke about forcing people to meditate. I think it was during the Wilshire-Ebell lectures in LA back in 1968 or so in which he talked about meditation police who would apprehend people on the street who appeared unhappy. Also, his courting of dictators implies something of this nature. He obviously wanted the dictators to get all their people to meditate. He must have considered how they would go about doing this. There have been many attempts to get large numbers to meditate in factories, schools, etc., in which the actually willingness of individuals to go along with the plan was the last thing on his mind. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
Hi Richard, Comment Below... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times' Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:55:52 EDT In a message dated 4/16/06 11:54:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And when Iran can send out 40,000 suicide bombers , some equipped with suit case size nukes, then what? According to reuters there are only 200 suicide volunteers. The 40,000 refered to are new recruits to the revolutionary guard. And there are no suitcase nukes. Yes Richard, and many are saying, why shouldn't Iran have nukes. One day they just might and why couldn't they develop suit case size nuclear bombs and hand them over to any number of these 200 or by then 40,000 recruits?We stand by and do nothing other than protest to the UN or even congratulate them on their advances in technology. Funny how the leaders of Iran are not held responsible for their rhetoric or their actions while leaders receiving the threats are held responsible for taking those threats seriously. I don't think any country should have them but it's a bit late for that. The nature of arms races is such that once Israel armed itself everyone in the middle east will. We can only hope that when it finally gets it's hands on something really dangerous, Iran will understand the concept of mutually assured destruction I doubt if Mutually Assured Destruction would stop Iran from using nukes or any other weapons. Mutually assured destruction is the aim of suicide bombers, and I get the idea the same mentality pervades some middle eastern cultures/goverments/nations. In particular president Ahmadinejad, who (some fear) sees international turmoil as heralding the return of the twelfth imam, which he believes would bring about peace and justice by establishing islam throughout the world. The greater the turmoil or more destructive the war, the more likely is the return of the imam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_imam#Reappearance http://www.newstatesman.com/200512050014 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/15/AR2005121501428.html not a great way to live but seeing as Israel has such obvious expansionist ambitions it's either that or another US invasion. Israeli expansionist ambitions? Can you elaborate? I would guess though, that the people of Iran have had enough of western meddling in their affairs. They don't call us the great satan for nothing you know. For nearly a hundred years we have seen the middle east as little more than a filling station and knocked off any government that didn't want to play by our rules. And in those days no-one even complained to the UN because they were getting cheap oil too. You can't keep treating people like this, If there is such a thing as Karma I would say we are due! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sacred Destinations - Sacred sites, pilgrimages, religious buildings, sacred places
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/17/06 1:27 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. I missed the post about the Catholic Church forcing people to attend mass, and about the comparison with the TMO, if that was made... Post 94839 ...but Maharishi did used to joke about forcing people to meditate. He did more than joke about it. When several of the TM-in-prison programs were being proposed back in the 70s, Maharishi wanted us to demand that prisoners *had* to learn TM. As I remember Jerry Jarvis nixed this, because of course the State of California would never have agreed to any study that was mandatory. I think it was during the Wilshire-Ebell lectures in LA back in 1968 or so in which he talked about meditation police who would apprehend people on the street who appeared unhappy. It almost sounds benevolent, because so many of us had essentially pleasant experiences with vanilla TM. The tendency is to think, Oh that's not really religious fanaticism...it's just TM, after all. But imagine that the person being forced to learn and practice it is yourself, and that the technique that has gained politically-correct favor enough to be made mandatory is Scientology. Or Subud. Or for those who are, in true TM fashion, terrified of any technique that involves effort, some form of meditation that actually required you to focus. How would you feel about how benevolent these meditation police might be? How funny is the joke then? Also, his courting of dictators implies something of this nature. He obviously wanted the dictators to get all their people to meditate. Absolutely. He must have considered how they would go about doing this. Here I disagree with you. I doubt he ever paid the mechanics of how this would happen any mind whatsoever, because he really never *cared* about the people who would be forced to learn TM. What they wanted and what they believed was irrelevant, not to be considered...all that was important for the greater good is that they practice TM. Maharishi wouldn't have concerned himself with the details as long as the bottom line was what he wanted. There have been many attempts to get large numbers to meditate in factories, schools, etc., in which the actual willingness of individuals to go along with the plan was the last thing on his mind. Absolutely. In my experience, he would consider the sensibilities of the people involved irrelevant. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
On Apr 17, 2006, at 11:02 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: But imagine that the person being forced to learn and practice it is yourself, and that the technique that has gained politically-correct favor enough to be made mandatory is Scientology. Or Subud. Or for those who are, in true TM fashion, terrified of any technique that involves effort, some form of meditation that actually required you to focus. How would you feel about how benevolent these meditation police might be? How funny is the joke then? A friend who was a Social Worker, worked at a local and brand new psychiatric facility and was required to attend seminars by Landmark Forum---the latest incarnation of Werner Erhard's EST idea. Apparently a part of Landmark was getting into large corporations and getting everyone to take their course. He ended up having these trainings put in his job evaluation by his boss who wanted the whole hospital to take the training. Well, the course threw him into a psychotic break. He successfully sued the hospital and they settled out of court to avoid public exposure. Being forced to take this course was not funny to him. I could see the same thing happening with anything that was forced upon someone. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:52 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 8:18 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Actually the techniques mentioned in the article have a long and continuous history of producing fully enlightened Buddhas. Yeah, but they're not TM, so how good can they possibly be? Get a grip, man. Gives me another bumper-sticker idea: I'd Rather Be Unstressing So where is the mention of witnessing sleep in all of this? Wallace (the Samatha researcher) doesn't mention it that I saw. No he doesn't, although the techniques of witnessing are commonly applied nightly by practitioners of this tradition. He does teach how to do it. snip Hi Vaj- There seems to be a disconnect between what you are more or less continuously proposing through your postings here, that TM and other McMeditation techniques are basically not adhering to a pure [Buddhist] tradition, and therefore causing problems among the practitioners, and/or disallowing them from reaching deeper levels of experience. Aside from blatantly stating that TM produces undesirable side effects in a majority of those that practice it, which I haven't heard you say, it appears that your aims of meditation may be different than for some of those that practice TM. In my case, TM was always 'sold' as a practice to enhance daily life, and not as a practice in which the focus was the practice itself. The reason I mention this is when I read many of your postings about the experience of stillness and no thought, etc. I find it interesting, but from a practical point of view, or as a goal of achievement, it doesn't interest me at all. I am not that interested in my meditation experience. I do it, then I forget about it until it is time to meditate again. Analysis of my meditation experience is not part of my practice. Has my experience deepened over time? Yes. Has silence infused my daily activity? Yes. Have I gained the ability to sit without thoughts for as long as I choose to? Yes. Do I experience lucid dreaming? Yes. Do I have good posture? Yes. So it appears that you are regularly propounding a set of techniques that when practiced, achieve the same results as regular practice of TM, and TM Sidhis. The conclusion I reach is that whether we take a bus, or a scooter or an ox cart, Buddhist meditation techniques, TM, the destination with all of its associated results, remains the same. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 10:15 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:58 AM, sparaig wrote: I am actually quite serious: I really do believe that the technique desribed in the pdf is quite distorted and won't go as deep as TM. Ironically for the very reason why it asserts that it goes deep: it advocates control and makes value- judgements about getting lost in thoughts, Actually in this method people would eventually transcend for significantly longer amounts of time But does depth correspond directly to longer periods of transcending? Or might it correspond to the level of impurities (stress) in the nervous system being dissolved (which manifest as discursive thoughts)? Presumably that's what research shows. When you can 'get down and stay down' the mind purifies spontaneously. The research I read on this was from the centerpointe people. They claim that you have to increase this immersion in PC slowly over a couple of years in most people, otherwise it's just too much unstressing to process. And the published research on this is found where, again? Wallace, in the aforementioned article, states that a purification does happen once one sustains the state for extended periods: With the attainment of the ninth state called balanced placement, accomplished with the force of familiarization, only an initial impulse of will and effort is needed at the beginning of each meditation session; for after that, uninterrupted, sustained at- tention occurs effortlessly. Moreover, the engagement of the will, of effort, and inter- vention at this point is actually a hindrance. It is time to let the natural balance of the mind maintain itself without interference. Which happens all the time, from the start, with TM... (...) Even when one has reached the state of balanced placement, Samatha has still not been fully achieved. Its attainment is marked first by a dramatic shift in one's nervous system, characterized briefly by a not unpleasant sense of heaviness and numbness on the top of the head. This is followed by an obvious increase in mental and then physi- cal pliancy, entailing a cheerfulness and lightness of the mind and a buoyancy and lightness of the body. Consequently, experiences of physical bliss and then mental bliss arise, which are temporarily quite overwhelming. But that rapture soon fades, and with their disappearance, the attention is sustained firmly and calmly upon the meditative object, and Samatha is fully achieved. The above claims concerning a shift in one's nervous system and its consequences have to do with first-hand, empiri- cal, physiological experiences. It remains to be seen how, or whether, such a theory and the corresponding physiological changes can be detected objectively and under- stood in modern scientific terms. So where is pure consciousness in sustained firmly and calmly upon the meditative object? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/17/06 1:27 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. I missed the post about the Catholic Church forcing people to attend mass, and about the comparison with the TMO, if that was made, but Maharishi did used to joke about forcing people to meditate. I think it was during the Wilshire-Ebell lectures in LA back in 1968 or so in which he talked about meditation police who would apprehend people on the street who appeared unhappy. Also, his courting of dictators implies something of this nature. He obviously wanted the dictators to get all their people to meditate. He must have considered how they would go about doing this. There have been many attempts to get large numbers to meditate in factories, schools, etc., in which the actually willingness of individuals to go along with the plan was the last thing on his mind. Huh. According to Farohk, the implementation of TM in the prison system in Senegal was 100% voluntary, and he and the other TM teachers spent many hours answering everyone's questions about it before everyone agreed to start. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] Has my experience deepened over time? Yes. Has silence infused my daily activity? Yes. Have I gained the ability to sit without thoughts for as long as I choose to? Yes. Do I experience lucid dreaming? Yes. Do I have good posture? Yes. So it appears that you are regularly propounding a set of techniques that when practiced, achieve the same results as regular practice of TM, and TM Sidhis. The conclusion I reach is that whether we take a bus, or a scooter or an ox cart, Buddhist meditation techniques, TM, the destination with all of its associated results, remains the same. But IS it the same state? The brainwave coherence study that Vaj likes to tout is only concerning the very high (for EEG) frequency gamma band, whereas TM- induced coherence is over all frequencies save, perhaps, the gamma band. The state induced by TM practice apparently gets more pronounced during meditation for about 4 months and then stabilizes. However, the state outside meditation continues to become more pronounced over decades of practice. The Buddhist meditation EEG coherence appears to continue to get more and more pronounced during meditation as time goes on. The gamma band EEG of the Buddhist meditation is associated with paying attention to specific objects. The alpha band EEG is associated with being alert, period. There's no research that I can find (nor can the Esalen Institute) that document breath suspension during Buddhist meditation, whereas there are several studies on hundreds of individuals who show this during TM practice. There's no mention of correlation between EEG changes and enlightenment in any of the research that Vaj mentions, whereas that's one of the big areas of study for EEG and brain imaging at MUM currently. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 11:49 AM, sparaig wrote: Wallace, in the aforementioned article, states that a purification does happen once one sustains the state for extended periods: With the attainment of the ninth state called balanced placement, accomplished with the force of familiarization, only an initial impulse of will and effort is needed at the beginning of each meditation session; for after that, uninterrupted, sustained at- tention occurs effortlessly. Moreover, the engagement of the will, of effort, and inter- vention at this point is actually a hindrance. It is time to let the natural balance of the mind maintain itself without interference. Which happens all the time, from the start, with TM... People transcend from the start of their practice, for the length of their entire meditation session, i.e. they transcend 20 minutes at a time or hours at a time if they wish? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
On Apr 17, 2006, at 11:29 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: Hi Vaj- There seems to be a disconnect between what you are more or less continuously proposing through your postings here, that TM and other McMeditation techniques are basically not adhering to a pure [Buddhist] tradition, and therefore causing problems among the practitioners, and/or disallowing them from reaching deeper levels of experience. No that's not what I'm saying at all. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ [...] Has my experience deepened over time? Yes. Has silence infused my daily activity? Yes. Have I gained the ability to sit without thoughts for as long as I choose to? Yes. Do I experience lucid dreaming? Yes. Do I have good posture? Yes. So it appears that you are regularly propounding a set of techniques that when practiced, achieve the same results as regular practice of TM, and TM Sidhis. The conclusion I reach is that whether we take a bus, or a scooter or an ox cart, Buddhist meditation techniques, TM, the destination with all of its associated results, remains the same. But IS it the same state? The brainwave coherence study that Vaj likes to tout is only concerning the very high (for EEG) frequency gamma band, whereas TM- induced coherence is over all frequencies save, perhaps, the gamma band. The state induced by TM practice apparently gets more pronounced during meditation for about 4 months and then stabilizes. However, the state outside meditation continues to become more pronounced over decades of practice. The Buddhist meditation EEG coherence appears to continue to get more and more pronounced during meditation as time goes on. The gamma band EEG of the Buddhist meditation is associated with paying attention to specific objects. The alpha band EEG is associated with being alert, period. There's no research that I can find (nor can the Esalen Institute) that document breath suspension during Buddhist meditation, whereas there are several studies on hundreds of individuals who show this during TM practice. There's no mention of correlation between EEG changes and enlightenment in any of the research that Vaj mentions, whereas that's one of the big areas of study for EEG and brain imaging at MUM currently. I prefer TM, and have reached my own conclusions about it. If someone sees benefit in another technique, fine, whether it produces the same results, or not. Scientific facts are great to substantiate our views, but rarely do they change them, imo. Science operates primarily in the realm of the intellect, whereas beliefs are held in the heart. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sacred Destinations - Sacred sites, pilgrimages, religious buildings, sacred places
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.sacred-destinations.com/ Thank you for this mail about sacred destinations. I am invited by EU to speak in a Symposium in Cologne in May. And the pictures inspired me to see the Cathedral in Cologne - it looks really beautiful. Ingegerd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Maharishi's 1969 interviews
Title: Maharishi's 1969 interviews Maharishi's 1969 interviews There are six good, short interviews with Maharishi available to hear, all done in 1969 and available on the BBC web site. It's nice to hear again how he spoke when he was younger. The precise link is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/profilepages/maharishi1.shtml Mahesh Yogi Maharishi b1917 Religion in its Contemporary Context 14 October 1969Radio 4 Maharishi talks to Leslie Smith about his vow and the monk's way of life1 min 13 what transcendental meditation is1 min 13 how to practice transcendental meditation1 min 14 why someone would want to meditate2 min 37 the difference between transcendental meditation and prayer1 min 53 the link between transcendental meditation and society3 min 4 You will need RealPlayer to access these clips. Visit WebWise for help downloading RealPlayer To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Maharishi's 1969 interviews
Title: Maharishi's 1969 interviews Maharishi's 1969 interviews There are six short interviews with Maharishi available to hear, all done in 1969 and available on the BBC web site. The precise link is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/profilepages/maharishi1.shtml Mahesh Yogi Maharishi b1917 Religion in its Contemporary Context 14 October 1969 Radio 4 Maharishi talks to Leslie Smith about his vow and the monk's way of life 1 min 13 http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/realmedia/maharishi/maharishi1.ram what transcendental meditation is 1 min 13 http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/realmedia/maharishi/maharishi2.ram how to practice transcendental meditation 1 min 14 http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/realmedia/maharishi/maharishi3.ram why someone would want to meditate 2 min 37 http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/realmedia/maharishi/maharishi4.ram the difference between transcendental meditation and prayer 1 min 53 http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/realmedia/maharishi/maharishi5.ram the link between transcendental meditation and society 3 min 4 http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/realmedia/maharishi/maharishi6.ram To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 11:49 AM, sparaig wrote: Wallace, in the aforementioned article, states that a purification does happen once one sustains the state for extended periods: With the attainment of the ninth state called balanced placement, accomplished with the force of familiarization, only an initial impulse of will and effort is needed at the beginning of each meditation session; for after that, uninterrupted, sustained at- tention occurs effortlessly. Moreover, the engagement of the will, of effort, and inter- vention at this point is actually a hindrance. It is time to let the natural balance of the mind maintain itself without interference. Which happens all the time, from the start, with TM... People transcend from the start of their practice, for the length of their entire meditation session, i.e. they transcend 20 minutes at a time or hours at a time if they wish? And you have documentation of this? And this voluntary transcending turns into spontaneous transcending for months and years at a time as documented where? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ [...] Has my experience deepened over time? Yes. Has silence infused my daily activity? Yes. Have I gained the ability to sit without thoughts for as long as I choose to? Yes. Do I experience lucid dreaming? Yes. Do I have good posture? Yes. So it appears that you are regularly propounding a set of techniques that when practiced, achieve the same results as regular practice of TM, and TM Sidhis. The conclusion I reach is that whether we take a bus, or a scooter or an ox cart, Buddhist meditation techniques, TM, the destination with all of its associated results, remains the same. But IS it the same state? The brainwave coherence study that Vaj likes to tout is only concerning the very high (for EEG) frequency gamma band, whereas TM- induced coherence is over all frequencies save, perhaps, the gamma band. The state induced by TM practice apparently gets more pronounced during meditation for about 4 months and then stabilizes. However, the state outside meditation continues to become more pronounced over decades of practice. The Buddhist meditation EEG coherence appears to continue to get more and more pronounced during meditation as time goes on. The gamma band EEG of the Buddhist meditation is associated with paying attention to specific objects. The alpha band EEG is associated with being alert, period. There's no research that I can find (nor can the Esalen Institute) that document breath suspension during Buddhist meditation, whereas there are several studies on hundreds of individuals who show this during TM practice. There's no mention of correlation between EEG changes and enlightenment in any of the research that Vaj mentions, whereas that's one of the big areas of study for EEG and brain imaging at MUM currently. I prefer TM, and have reached my own conclusions about it. If someone sees benefit in another technique, fine, whether it produces the same results, or not. Scientific facts are great to substantiate our views, but rarely do they change them, imo. Science operates primarily in the realm of the intellect, whereas beliefs are held in the heart. Sure, but are beliefs about something as important as the something? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:01 PM, sparaig wrote: But IS it the same state? The brainwave coherence study that Vaj likes to tout is only concerning the very high (for EEG) frequency gamma band, whereas TM- induced coherence is over all frequencies save, perhaps, the gamma band. The state induced by TM practice apparently gets more pronounced during meditation for about 4 months and then stabilizes. However, the state outside meditation continues to become more pronounced over decades of practice. The Buddhist meditation EEG coherence appears to continue to get more and more pronounced during meditation as time goes on. The gamma band EEG of the Buddhist meditation is associated with paying attention to specific objects. The alpha band EEG is associated with being alert, period. There's no research that I can find (nor can the Esalen Institute) that document breath suspension during Buddhist meditation, whereas there are several studies on hundreds of individuals who show this during TM practice. There's no mention of correlation between EEG changes and enlightenment in any of the research that Vaj mentions, whereas that's one of the big areas of study for EEG and brain imaging at MUM currently. The way I would show the same EEG pattern if I wanted to duplicate witnessing on the EEG is to do ishta meditation with a mantra (what Tibetans call yidam practice). It duplicates the same EEG signature as TMers doing ishta mantra. Very easy to do. Documentation of this same EEG signature is found where? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I prefer TM, and have reached my own conclusions about it. If someone sees benefit in another technique, fine, whether it produces the same results, or not. Scientific facts are great to substantiate our views, but rarely do they change them, imo. Science operates primarily in the realm of the intellect, whereas beliefs are held in the heart. Scientific facts are also sometimes used as stand-ins for experiences that people have not had personally. For example, if the practice in question is theoretically supposed to produce enlightenment experiences but the practitioner has never had enlightenment experiences personally, he or she can point to the research and say, See...enlightenment does happen as a result of practicing technique X, and feel better about contin- uing his or her practice of that technique. In such a case, the research serves as intellectual fodder, but it also serves as an emotional carrot. And I guess this is fine, except that the map is not the territory. The scientific measurements of enlightenment are never going to be enlightenment. The studies done on higher states of consciousness are always, in my opinion, going to be playing catch up to the real thing, trying to describe or measure some- thing that can only be experienced, and that by its very nature can never be described or measured. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:33 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 11:49 AM, sparaig wrote: Wallace, in the aforementioned article, states that a purification does happen once one sustains the state for extended periods: With the attainment of the ninth state called balanced placement, accomplished with the force of familiarization, only an initial impulse of will and effort is needed at the beginning of each meditation session; for after that, uninterrupted, sustained at- tention occurs effortlessly. Moreover, the engagement of the will, of effort, and inter- vention at this point is actually a hindrance. It is time to let the natural balance of the mind maintain itself without interference. Which happens all the time, from the start, with TM... People transcend from the start of their practice, for the length of their entire meditation session, i.e. they transcend 20 minutes at a time or hours at a time if they wish? And you have documentation of this? And this voluntary transcending turns into spontaneous transcending for months and years at a time as documented where? LOL. You're the one who said you could do that with TM from the beginning... Hang around some other meditators, you might learn a thing or two or three... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:35 PM, sparaig wrote: The way I would show the same EEG pattern if I wanted to duplicate witnessing on the EEG is to do ishta meditation with a mantra (what Tibetans call yidam practice). It duplicates the same EEG signature as TMers doing ishta mantra. Very easy to do. Documentation of this same EEG signature is found where? On people who try it. It's the pattern I got when I did it. You saw the Ken Wilber video--that's how he does it there too. Very easy. That's where the similarity is between both Buddhist and Hindu--they both do Ishta/Yidam meditation and the pattern is the same. If you look at the Mind Mirror literature and the brain entrainment literature you'll see these are basic patterns that are pretty easy to achieve for most meditators. No big deal really. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: I prefer TM, and have reached my own conclusions about it. If someone sees benefit in another technique, fine, whether it produces the same results, or not. Scientific facts are great to substantiate our views, but rarely do they change them, imo. Science operates primarily in the realm of the intellect, whereas beliefs are held in the heart. Scientific facts are also sometimes used as stand-ins for experiences that people have not had personally. For example, if the practice in question is theoretically supposed to produce enlightenment experiences but the practitioner has never had enlightenment experiences personally, he or she can point to the research and say, See...enlightenment does happen as a result of practicing technique X, and feel better about contin- uing his or her practice of that technique. In such a case, the research serves as intellectual fodder, but it also serves as an emotional carrot. And I guess this is fine, except that the map is not the territory. The scientific measurements of enlightenment are never going to be enlightenment. The studies done on higher states of consciousness are always, in my opinion, going to be playing catch up to the real thing, trying to describe or measure some- thing that can only be experienced, and that by its very nature can never be described or measured. That's true of carrots also... Not to mention cake, sex, a flower, both scent and sight... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:33 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 11:49 AM, sparaig wrote: Wallace, in the aforementioned article, states that a purification does happen once one sustains the state for extended periods: With the attainment of the ninth state called balanced placement, accomplished with the force of familiarization, only an initial impulse of will and effort is needed at the beginning of each meditation session; for after that, uninterrupted, sustained at- tention occurs effortlessly. Moreover, the engagement of the will, of effort, and inter- vention at this point is actually a hindrance. It is time to let the natural balance of the mind maintain itself without interference. Which happens all the time, from the start, with TM... People transcend from the start of their practice, for the length of their entire meditation session, i.e. they transcend 20 minutes at a time or hours at a time if they wish? And you have documentation of this? And this voluntary transcending turns into spontaneous transcending for months and years at a time as documented where? LOL. You're the one who said you could do that with TM from the beginning... Hang around some other meditators, you might learn a thing or two or three... There's plenty of people who claim plenty of things. However, I'm still waiting for documentation of your claim as in research published in peer reviewed journals. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Reincarnation
Title: Reincarnation From a friend: Hi Rick, yeah, this re-incarnation stuff could go into FFL. I can make marks each time, when it should not... Thanx for answering. It really is amazing, since I was truthful, and ONLY did TM + all the rest like sidhis, I got, what was promised. The fruit of all knowledge, or all the other pictures of what it is, when you can see inside. I would say, be innocent and truthful to yourself, and you will get it. We are made out of knowledge, so we should arrive at that sooner or later And all I do is trying to bring people to that experience themselves. Like this one: http://joerg.8m.com/vedas/doe5.html cheers joerg. Interesting stuff. When you send me these things, do you want me to forward them to FFL, or are they just for me? on 4/17/06 6:43 AM, joerg dao at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rick, I was also speculating about that subject since reading Yogananda. But later, I got some real good insights about it. And yes, some of the former famous ones are back. Like Beethoven (I was shaking hands with him once - but he is NOT in the music business), Mozart, and Dr. Freud, who is living in Vienna again, and nearly did my EmC-training. http://joergdao.fortunecity.de/india3.html# So, the guru of Yogananda, Yuktesvar, is back, and he is in London, doing healing. For me, there is a clear pattern. Being holy in India, means, you step up, and can go into the promised land, which at this time is europe (or US), with all its boundless riches. And with more sessions in EmC, I could really detect more of these people. When I met Hans Vater, I could see some of his former . did you think, that all TMers are the nice one`s, really ? If you see their patterns.hm So on my course I reveal at least one line of incarnation, the rest is not open to discussion, since it is the inner rule, that everybody has to work out his / her own insights Or to say it reverse: It`s not allowed to confuse people with no inisghts, So Mr. M. must have had a lot exitment to have some of the really big shots in his movement, like the guy who rescued europe from the turcs at vienna in 16... something, he was TM-teacher, quite successful, always tried to look like a king, why not ? cheers joerg. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/17/06 1:27 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. I missed the post about the Catholic Church forcing people to attend mass, and about the comparison with the TMO, if that was made, but Maharishi did used to joke about forcing people to meditate. I think it was during the Wilshire-Ebell lectures in LA back in 1968 or so in which he talked about meditation police who would apprehend people on the street who appeared unhappy. Also, his courting of dictators implies something of this nature. He obviously wanted the dictators to get all their people to meditate. He must have considered how they would go about doing this. At the giant Vedic Science course in the Indian Express Building in New Delhi, India, very early 80s, during a lecture one afternoon, someone asked Maharishi somewhere in the course of a discussion about governments around the globe: Well, what would be the best form of government? He responded: Enlightened dictatorship, but this is a controversial topic so we won't talk about it. Anyone else remember that? There have been many attempts to get large numbers to meditate in factories, schools, etc., in which the actually willingness of individuals to go along with the plan was the last thing on his mind. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:35 PM, sparaig wrote: The way I would show the same EEG pattern if I wanted to duplicate witnessing on the EEG is to do ishta meditation with a mantra (what Tibetans call yidam practice). It duplicates the same EEG signature as TMers doing ishta mantra. Very easy to do. Documentation of this same EEG signature is found where? On people who try it. It's the pattern I got when I did it. You saw the Ken Wilber video--that's how he does it there too. Very easy. LOL. Ken Wilber's demo was on a 4 channel home EEG unit. The modern EEG units are 32-128 channel and are hooked up by people with training in how to hook them up. That's where the similarity is between both Buddhist and Hindu-- they both do Ishta/Yidam meditation and the pattern is the same. If you look at the Mind Mirror literature and the brain entrainment literature you'll see these are basic patterns that are pretty easy to achieve for most meditators. No big deal really. Again, you prove that you are beyond clueless. Comparing a 4-channel home unit to a 128-channel clinical unit is, well, a vajranatha moment... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 4/17/06 1:27 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. I missed the post about the Catholic Church forcing people to attend mass, and about the comparison with the TMO, if that was made, but Maharishi did used to joke about forcing people to meditate. I think it was during the Wilshire-Ebell lectures in LA back in 1968 or so in which he talked about meditation police who would apprehend people on the street who appeared unhappy. Also, his courting of dictators implies something of this nature. He obviously wanted the dictators to get all their people to meditate. He must have considered how they would go about doing this. At the giant Vedic Science course in the Indian Express Building in New Delhi, India, very early 80s, during a lecture one afternoon, someone asked Maharishi somewhere in the course of a discussion about governments around the globe: Well, what would be the best form of government? He responded: Enlightened dictatorship, but this is a controversial topic so we won't talk about it. Anyone else remember that? Since he's said he likes enlightened kings on the Larry King show, its not exactly a secret these days. However, who would NOT prefer an enlightend king to a President Bush? The problems are: 1) how do you know they're enlightened? and 2) whats the guarantee that the next guy is going to be enlightened also? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:54 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:33 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 11:49 AM, sparaig wrote: Wallace, in the aforementioned article, states that a purification does happen once one sustains the state for extended periods: With the attainment of the ninth state called balanced placement, accomplished with the force of familiarization, only an initial impulse of will and effort is needed at the beginning of each meditation session; for after that, uninterrupted, sustained at- tention occurs effortlessly. Moreover, the engagement of the will, of effort, and inter- vention at this point is actually a hindrance. It is time to let the natural balance of the mind maintain itself without interference. Which happens all the time, from the start, with TM... People transcend from the start of their practice, for the length of their entire meditation session, i.e. they transcend 20 minutes at a time or hours at a time if they wish? And you have documentation of this? And this voluntary transcending turns into spontaneous transcending for months and years at a time as documented where? LOL. You're the one who said you could do that with TM from the beginning... Hang around some other meditators, you might learn a thing or two or three... There's plenty of people who claim plenty of things. However, I'm still waiting for documentation of your claim as in research published in peer reviewed journals. And why are you waiting for that? You need to get out more dude. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
on 4/17/06 11:55 AM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the giant Vedic Science course in the Indian Express Building in New Delhi, India, very early 80s, during a lecture one afternoon, someone asked Maharishi somewhere in the course of a discussion about governments around the globe: Well, what would be the best form of government? He responded: Enlightened dictatorship, but this is a controversial topic so we won't talk about it. Anyone else remember that? Yup. I was there too. Maharishi has often said that the common man shouldn't be trying to run the government. That's what he's implying when he says damn democracy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:54 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:33 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 11:49 AM, sparaig wrote: Wallace, in the aforementioned article, states that a purification does happen once one sustains the state for extended periods: With the attainment of the ninth state called balanced placement, accomplished with the force of familiarization, only an initial impulse of will and effort is needed at the beginning of each meditation session; for after that, uninterrupted, sustained at- tention occurs effortlessly. Moreover, the engagement of the will, of effort, and inter- vention at this point is actually a hindrance. It is time to let the natural balance of the mind maintain itself without interference. Which happens all the time, from the start, with TM... People transcend from the start of their practice, for the length of their entire meditation session, i.e. they transcend 20 minutes at a time or hours at a time if they wish? And you have documentation of this? And this voluntary transcending turns into spontaneous transcending for months and years at a time as documented where? LOL. You're the one who said you could do that with TM from the beginning... Hang around some other meditators, you might learn a thing or two or three... There's plenty of people who claim plenty of things. However, I'm still waiting for documentation of your claim as in research published in peer reviewed journals. And why are you waiting for that? You need to get out more dude. In other words, you don't have any evidence of your claims beyond Ken Wilber playing games with a home EEG machine. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Reincarnation
You can forward them, Rick, but you have to wait until the next lifetime. :) Sal On Apr 17, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Rick Archer wrote: Interesting stuff. When you send me these things, do you want me to forward them to FFL, or are they just for me?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 1:08 PM, sparaig wrote: There's plenty of people who claim plenty of things. However, I'm still waiting for documentation of your claim as in research published in peer reviewed journals. And why are you waiting for that? You need to get out more dude. In other words, you don't have any evidence of your claims beyond Ken Wilber playing games with a home EEG machine. LOL. No I'm just not obsessed with the map, I prefer the territory itself. Why are you so shocked about this? Has TM conditioned you to believe people *can't* transcend for more than a couple of minutes of apnea? It really seems to other you what Wallace is saying. Shouldn't we all be happy? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ [...] Has my experience deepened over time? Yes. Has silence infused my daily activity? Yes. Have I gained the ability to sit without thoughts for as long as I choose to? Yes. Do I experience lucid dreaming? Yes. Do I have good posture? Yes. So it appears that you are regularly propounding a set of techniques that when practiced, achieve the same results as regular practice of TM, and TM Sidhis. The conclusion I reach is that whether we take a bus, or a scooter or an ox cart, Buddhist meditation techniques, TM, the destination with all of its associated results, remains the same. But IS it the same state? The brainwave coherence study that Vaj likes to tout is only concerning the very high (for EEG) frequency gamma band, whereas TM- induced coherence is over all frequencies save, perhaps, the gamma band. The state induced by TM practice apparently gets more pronounced during meditation for about 4 months and then stabilizes. However, the state outside meditation continues to become more pronounced over decades of practice. The Buddhist meditation EEG coherence appears to continue to get more and more pronounced during meditation as time goes on. The gamma band EEG of the Buddhist meditation is associated with paying attention to specific objects. The alpha band EEG is associated with being alert, period. There's no research that I can find (nor can the Esalen Institute) that document breath suspension during Buddhist meditation, whereas there are several studies on hundreds of individuals who show this during TM practice. There's no mention of correlation between EEG changes and enlightenment in any of the research that Vaj mentions, whereas that's one of the big areas of study for EEG and brain imaging at MUM currently. I prefer TM, and have reached my own conclusions about it. If someone sees benefit in another technique, fine, whether it produces the same results, or not. Scientific facts are great to substantiate our views, but rarely do they change them, imo. Science operates primarily in the realm of the intellect, whereas beliefs are held in the heart. Sure, but are beliefs about something as important as the something? Great question, but I can't answer it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: 40,000 suicide bombers, Gimbel, and you couldn't find anything to rhyme with it? It was a subject far too somber. Yes, not a good sign; A scare tactic, but nonetheless, sobering. But I think knowing this type of thinking is out there; Can at least begin to diminish it's power; By bringing consciousness to the insanity of the ego: In and of itelf can help dissolve the negativity; The higher and more potent the consciousness; The greater the power to disolve the insanity, of the ego. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
authfriend wrote: On its face, the likelihood that Iran could actually recruit and train 40,000 people who would actually then go out and *be* suicide bombers seems unlikely, to say the least. (Of course, even a few who were successful could cause a great deal of chaos.) Very impressive. The diplomatic efforts made until now have been exhausted, he said, and it is now time for a diplomatic process with sharp teeth. How does that work? If diplomatic efforts have been exhuasted, how can diplomatic efforts have any teeth? Another question: How many suicide bombers did Iran field during the Iran-Iraq war? According to what I've read, it was in the millions. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
TurquoiseB wrote: Scientific facts are also sometimes used as stand-ins for experiences that people have not had personally. For example, if the practice in question is theoretically supposed to produce enlightenment experiences but the practitioner has never had enlightenment experiences personally, he or she can point to the research and say, See...enlightenment does happen as a result of practicing technique X, and feel better about contin- uing his or her practice of that technique. In such a case, the research serves as intellectual fodder, but it also serves as an emotional carrot. And I guess this is fine, except that the map is not the territory. The scientific measurements of enlightenment are never going to be enlightenment. The studies done on higher states of consciousness are always, in my opinion, going to be playing catch up to the real thing, trying to describe or measure some- thing that can only be experienced, and that by its very nature can never be described or measured. So, you've read all the scientific studies on higher states of conciousness, but you can't seem to cite a single one of them. Question: Are there any double-blind, scientific studies that indicate a physiological corrallary to a higher state of conciousness? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: 40,000 suicide bombers, Gimbel, and you couldn't find anything to rhyme with it? It was a subject far too somber. Yes, not a good sign; A scare tactic, but nonetheless, sobering. But I think knowing this type of thinking is out there; Can at least begin to diminish it's power; By bringing consciousness to the insanity of the ego: In and of itelf can help dissolve the negativity; The higher and more potent the consciousness; The greater the power to disolve the insanity, of the ego. Certainly Nimble Gimbel You could have Found a way To blame Bush and Company For the 40,000 Suicide bombers and make it rhyme To boot Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
sparaig wrote: Of course, there's no evidence that transcendence style meditation has anything to do with TM. There is plenty of evidence that TM is transcendence style Buddhist meditation. The first historical yogin in India was Shakya the Muni. Meditation is first mentioned, not in the Vedas, but in the Buddha's discourses. TM is a mechanical process which is based on Causation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
Vaj wrote: Hang around some other meditators, you might learn a thing or two or three... So, how long has it been since you were in group program inside a Maharishi Golden Dome? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
On Apr 17, 2006, at 2:13 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Vaj wrote: Hang around some other meditators, you might learn a thing or two or three... So, how long has it been since you were in group program inside a Maharishi Golden Dome? Non sequitur. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I doubt if Mutually Assured Destruction would stop Iran from using nukes or any other weapons. Mutually assured destruction is the aim of suicide bombers, and I get the idea the same mentality pervades some middle eastern cultures/goverments/nations. Where did you get that idea? Suicide bombers aren't after mutually assured destruction; they're making a sacrifice for a larger cause. Mutually assured destruction on a macro scale would eliminate any larger cause for both sides. In particular president Ahmadinejad, who (some fear) sees international turmoil as heralding the return of the twelfth imam, which he believes would bring about peace and justice by establishing islam throughout the world. The greater the turmoil or more destructive the war, the more likely is the return of the imam. Turmoil and the nuclear destruction of an Islamic nation would be two different things in this view, methinks. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:01 PM, sparaig wrote: snip There's no mention of correlation between EEG changes and enlightenment in any of the research that Vaj mentions, whereas that's one of the big areas of study for EEG and brain imaging at MUM currently. The way I would show the same EEG pattern if I wanted to duplicate witnessing on the EEG is to do ishta meditation with a mantra (what Tibetans call yidam practice). It duplicates the same EEG signature as TMers doing ishta mantra. Very easy to do. But you'd be meditating, right? I think Lawson's talking about in activity. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] 'Geopolitical Storm= Lot's of Opium'
Global storm warning By Arnaud de BorchgraveApril 17, 2006 Afghanistan is "on life support" with woefully inadequate funding to make a dent on the world's largest crop of opium poppies, insufficient troops to counter a resurgent Taliban, and a potential for disaster. So spoke the Council on Foreign Relations. Time and again, official spokespeople have claimed the Taliban was in its last throes, much the way the Iraqi insurgency was inaccurately described as terminal. NATO is doubling its 10,000-strong force by November. But Taliban's spring offensive has already killed 14 U.S. soldiers. And coalition forces responded with 2,500-strong Operation Mountain Lion in Kunar Province, whose mountain peaks soar to 15,000 feet. Heavy air support was supplied by B-52 bombers, F-15 fighter-bombers, A-10 Thunderbolts and British GR-7 Harriers. Taliban was anything but a spent force. Suicide bombings are now commonplace in widely scattered parts of Afghanistan. Far removed from the Pakistani border, in the northern Afghan provinces, NATO-led forces uncovered huge Taliban arms caches -- e.g., 15,000 anti-personnel mines, 10,000 anti-tank mines, and 80 tons of TNT, all "Soviet"-made. The fact some 2 million pounds of supplies were air-dropped last year to U.S. troops chasing Taliban guerrillas up and down mountains indicates (1) a gradual increase of infiltration from Pakistan's tribal areas and (2) the new Afghan army is not ready to take over. In fact, the Afghan military are still an estimated four years away from being able to fight on their own. Meanwhile, donor fatigue borders on donor exhaustion. In nearby Kyrgyzstan, mafia chief Rysbek Akmatbayev, who is linked to Afghanistan's multibillion-dollar heroin trade, and is protected by top government officials, sauntered into parliament with 79 percent of the votes on April 9. His close connections with the judiciary paid off handsomely; he was acquitted on triple homicide charges in January. Next, in one of the new democracies nurtured by the U.S., Mr. Akmatbayev is expected to become chairman of the parliamentary committee on security, rule of law and information policy. A law enforcement delegation from Tajikistan now touring the U.S. under State Department auspices made clear to this writer that the Bush administration cannot expect democracy to take root in tribal societies that lived under Soviet rule for 70 years. Nor should the U.S. assume, they added, the communist legacy was all bad. As if to prove the point, Russia and Tajikistan are expanding their security cooperation by conducting an antiterrorist exercise on the border with Afghanistan. While Russian tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, gunships and fighter-bombers strutted their stuff, three Tajik border guards were wounded in a firefight with Afghan drug dealers on the Tajik-Afghan border. The nexus between transnational terrorism and transnational crime is increasingly evident on all Afghan borders -- Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Pakistan and Iran. The U.S. democratic crusade has lost its head of steam from the "Stans" to the Middle East. With gold at $600 an ounce and oil at almost $70 a barrel, fears of worse to come in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and on the Israeli-Palestinian front are now widespread. Iran says it has crossed one of President Bush's red lines and started to enrich uranium -- clinging to the peaceful research canard. And the Bush administration juggles military options as it runs out of self-imposed limitations on its diplomatic options. America's European allies believe this is a propitious time to send a prominent personality on a secret mission to Iran to explore with Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme religious leader, the outlines of a geopolitical modus vivendi. For Mr. Bush, this is heresy; there can be no compromise with the "axis of evil." A prominent, U.S.-educated Gulf personality, who keeps a home in Washington, confided, not for attribution, "those Gulf countries, including Saudi Arabia, that have benefited from U.S. protection now fear that same protection endangers their regimes." In Kuwait, he said, the government is "deeply concerned" that when the U.S. pulls out of Iraq it will leave a residual, standby force in Kuwait that will then become the target of a terrorist campaign. Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah, in the same vein, has been multiplying the kingdom's relations with the world's new giants -- India and China. His travels are designed to show Saudis the country no longer depends on U.S. protection. In Egypt, President Hosni Mubarak maneuvers to pre-empt the fundamentalist, anti-American Muslim Brotherhood's recent election gains by moving up the timetable for his son Gamal to replace him. The perennial Israeli-Palestinian crisis is now heading into Intifada III. Israel severed security ties to the Palestinian government, which Hamas called a "declaration of war." Israeli artillery barrages and air strikes against Palestinian "Qassam" rocket
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:33 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 11:49 AM, sparaig wrote: Wallace, in the aforementioned article, states that a purification does happen once one sustains the state for extended periods: With the attainment of the ninth state called balanced placement, accomplished with the force of familiarization, only an initial impulse of will and effort is needed at the beginning of each meditation session; for after that, uninterrupted, sustained at- tention occurs effortlessly. Moreover, the engagement of the will, of effort, and intervention at this point is actually a hindrance. It is time to let the natural balance of the mind maintain itself without interference. Which happens all the time, from the start, with TM... People transcend from the start of their practice, for the length of their entire meditation session, i.e. they transcend 20 minutes at a time or hours at a time if they wish? And you have documentation of this? And this voluntary transcending turns into spontaneous transcending for months and years at a time as documented where? LOL. You're the one who said you could do that with TM from the beginning... I'm virtually positive you're well aware that is *not* what Lawson was saying, Vaj. Look at the quote he was responding to. He's saying natural balance of the mind is maintained without interference from the beginning in TM. And in any case, Wallace isn't talking about transcending in that quotation, he's talking about maintaining attention on the object. Hang around some other meditators, you might learn a thing or two or three... Translation: No, Vaj has no documentation of this. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 1:08 PM, sparaig wrote: There's plenty of people who claim plenty of things. However, I'm still waiting for documentation of your claim as in research published in peer reviewed journals. And why are you waiting for that? You need to get out more dude. In other words, you don't have any evidence of your claims beyond Ken Wilber playing games with a home EEG machine. LOL. No I'm just not obsessed with the map, I prefer the territory itself. Why are you so shocked about this? Has TM conditioned you to believe people *can't* transcend for more than a couple of minutes of apnea? It really seems to other you what Wallace is saying. Shouldn't we all be happy? If it's the case, sure. But how do we know it's the case if there's no documentation? And above you appear to be suggesting there *is* documentation, you just refuse to provide it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:35 PM, sparaig wrote: The way I would show the same EEG pattern if I wanted to duplicate witnessing on the EEG is to do ishta meditation with a mantra (what Tibetans call yidam practice). It duplicates the same EEG signature as TMers doing ishta mantra. Very easy to do. Documentation of this same EEG signature is found where? On people who try it. No, Vaj, that's not where documentation of the signature is found. It's the pattern I got when I did it. And the documentation of this claim is found where? You saw the Ken Wilber video--that's how he does it there too. Very easy. That's where the similarity is between both Buddhist and Hindu-- they both do Ishta/Yidam meditation and the pattern is the same. If you look at the Mind Mirror literature and the brain entrainment literature you'll see these are basic patterns that are pretty easy to achieve for most meditators. No big deal really. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: ' 40,000 Iranian Suicide bombers/ Sunday Times'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonybliss_ff no_reply@ wrote: Where have all the flowers gone, long time passing? Gone to weapons of mass destruction as reported by US and British media and intelligence. When will they ever learn? Heard an excellent suggestion on Meet the Press yesterday, though I don't recall the commentator. He was saying how this bellicose rhetoric was coming from the leadership of Iran, in order to shore up their internal support; that the chest beating was being done for political purposes inside Iran. And aside from the words, Iran has basically done nothing. The commentator continued that if Iran wanted to start a war with Israel or the US, this could be done very easily. He suggested that it was incumbent on the US, that rather than continuing to inflame the situation, that they treat Iran much as an adult would treat a young child hurling insults. That we should take a responsible direction. By the way, this inflamatory type of speech towards the US and Israel has been occuring for several decades from such countries as Syria, Egypt, Libya and others. It is just that those controlling Bush want to try to further secure the oil resources of the Middle East by force, and so are deciding to take this rhetoric from Iran seriously, in order to provoke war. snip +++ That does look like the situation. Do we have any way to bring those controlers under democratic control or, are we going down the drain? N. no crystal ball here, but if similar past events are any indication, it will turn out OK. Thanks for meditating, everyone! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Trailer for Al Gore's new film
Title: Trailer for Al Gore's new film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUiP6dqPynE To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Former national Holland leader
From a friend: Jacques Uijen was former Holland national leader and now heavy into diksha. (I mentioned this the other day but had forgotten his last name.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 4/17/06 1:27 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. I missed the post about the Catholic Church forcing people to attend mass, and about the comparison with the TMO, if that was made, but Maharishi did used to joke about forcing people to meditate. I think it was during the Wilshire-Ebell lectures in LA back in 1968 or so in which he talked about meditation police who would apprehend people on the street who appeared unhappy. Also, his courting of dictators implies something of this nature. He obviously wanted the dictators to get all their people to meditate. He must have considered how they would go about doing this. At the giant Vedic Science course in the Indian Express Building in New Delhi, India, very early 80s, during a lecture one afternoon, someone asked Maharishi somewhere in the course of a discussion about governments around the globe: Well, what would be the best form of government? He responded: Enlightened dictatorship, but this is a controversial topic so we won't talk about it. Anyone else remember that? *** What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. Lord Rama was certainly enlightened and had total authority, but he was no brutal and indifferent dictator -- He listened carefully to the people and took extraordinary steps to made sure that all concerns were addressed and everybody in the kingdom was happy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
And they all lived happily ever after. Sal On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:45 PM, bob_brigante wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. Lord Rama was certainly enlightened and had total authority, but he was no brutal and indifferent dictator -- He listened carefully to the people and took extraordinary steps to made sure that all concerns were addressed
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And they all lived happily ever after. Sal yeah-- very difficult to promote ideals during kali yuga because it is so hard to sustain them. we keep trying though. On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:45 PM, bob_brigante wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. Lord Rama was certainly enlightened and had total authority, but he was no brutal and indifferent dictator -- He listened carefully to the people and took extraordinary steps to made sure that all concerns were addressed To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reincarnation
If anyone does any sessions with this fellow Joerg, I'd be curious to hear how it goes. --- Rick Archer wrote: From a friend: Hi Rick, yeah, this re-incarnation stuff could go into FFL. I can make marks each time, when it should not... Thanx for answering. It really is amazing, since I was truthful, and ONLY did TM + all the rest like sidhis, I got, what was promised. The fruit of all knowledge, or all the other pictures of what it is, when you can see inside. I would say, be innocent and truthful to yourself, and you will get it. We are made out of knowledge, so we should arrive at that sooner or later And all I do is trying to bring people to that experience themselves. Like this one: http://joerg.8m.com/vedas/doe5.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ [...] Has my experience deepened over time? Yes. Has silence infused my daily activity? Yes. Have I gained the ability to sit without thoughts for as long as I choose to? Yes. Do I experience lucid dreaming? Yes. Do I have good posture? Yes. So it appears that you are regularly propounding a set of techniques that when practiced, achieve the same results as regular practice of TM, and TM Sidhis. The conclusion I reach is that whether we take a bus, or a scooter or an ox cart, Buddhist meditation techniques, TM, the destination with all of its associated results, remains the same. But IS it the same state? The brainwave coherence study that Vaj likes to tout is only concerning the very high (for EEG) frequency gamma band, whereas TM- induced coherence is over all frequencies save, perhaps, the gamma band. The state induced by TM practice apparently gets more pronounced during meditation for about 4 months and then stabilizes. However, the state outside meditation continues to become more pronounced over decades of practice. The Buddhist meditation EEG coherence appears to continue to get more and more pronounced during meditation as time goes on. The gamma band EEG of the Buddhist meditation is associated with paying attention to specific objects. The alpha band EEG is associated with being alert, period. There's no research that I can find (nor can the Esalen Institute) that document breath suspension during Buddhist meditation, whereas there are several studies on hundreds of individuals who show this during TM practice. There's no mention of correlation between EEG changes and enlightenment in any of the research that Vaj mentions, whereas that's one of the big areas of study for EEG and brain imaging at MUM currently. I prefer TM, and have reached my own conclusions about it. If someone sees benefit in another technique, fine, whether it produces the same results, or not. Scientific facts are great to substantiate our views, but rarely do they change them, imo. Science operates primarily in the realm of the intellect, whereas beliefs are held in the heart. Sure, but are beliefs about something as important as the something? Great question, but I can't answer it. Vaj referred to the map and the territory. Are beliefs the map or the territory in this case? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 1:08 PM, sparaig wrote: There's plenty of people who claim plenty of things. However, I'm still waiting for documentation of your claim as in research published in peer reviewed journals. And why are you waiting for that? You need to get out more dude. In other words, you don't have any evidence of your claims beyond Ken Wilber playing games with a home EEG machine. LOL. No I'm just not obsessed with the map, I prefer the territory itself. Why are you so shocked about this? Has TM conditioned you to believe people *can't* transcend for more than a couple of minutes of apnea? It really seems to other you what Wallace is saying. Shouldn't we all be happy? I suspect that what you call transcending is not the same as what TMers call transcending. Given that TMers don't report transcending during TM until after-the-fact, this is hardly surprising... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: Of course, there's no evidence that transcendence style meditation has anything to do with TM. There is plenty of evidence that TM is transcendence style Buddhist meditation. The first historical yogin in India was Shakya the Muni. Meditation is first mentioned, not in the Vedas, but in the Buddha's discourses. TM is a mechanical process which is based on Causation. Perhaps, but if you read what Vaj referred to, the description starts out sounding like its talking about TM and then gets all bogged down in effort/control/appropriate tension, etc. A typical telephone effect description of TM, IMHO. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] British school to offer happiness lessons
British school to offer happiness lessons Apr 17 9:32 AM US/Eastern One of Britain's leading fee-paying schools is to offer classes on happiness to combat the malaise in society caused by materialism and celebrity obsession, its headteacher announced. We are introducing classes on happiness, said Anthony Seldon, master of Wellington College, in Crowthorne, Berkshire, west of London. We have been focusing too much on academics and missing something far more important. A psychologist will oversee a pilot project teaching happiness lessons -- or well-being as it is being called -- from the start of the next academic year. Pupils aged 14 to 16 will be given one lesson a week, learning skills such as how to manage relationships, physical and mental health, negative emotions and how to achieve one's ambitions. The college's religious education staff will teach the course as a complement to, rather than a substitute for, conventional RE classes, said Seldon, who is also a political commentator and author. To me, the most important job of any school is to turn out young men and women who are happy and secure -- more important that the latest bulletin from the Department for Education about whatever, explained Seldon. Celebrity, money and possessions are too often the touchstones for teenagers and yet these are not where happiness lies. Our children need to know that as societies become richer, they don't become happier -- a fact regularly shown by social science research. Wellington school was founded in 1853 and currently has 750 boys aged 13 to 18 and 50 girls aged 16 plus. Fees range from 6,132 pounds (8,850 euros, 10,800 dollars) per term for day pupils to 7,665 pounds per term for boarders. --- And a related development ... In response, Amsterdam giggled and said their students were already way happy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: Research, Ethics and the Good Head] Buddhist techniques vs TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:01 PM, sparaig wrote: snip There's no mention of correlation between EEG changes and enlightenment in any of the research that Vaj mentions, whereas that's one of the big areas of study for EEG and brain imaging at MUM currently. The way I would show the same EEG pattern if I wanted to duplicate witnessing on the EEG is to do ishta meditation with a mantra (what Tibetans call yidam practice). It duplicates the same EEG signature as TMers doing ishta mantra. Very easy to do. But you'd be meditating, right? I think Lawson's talking about in activity. Both. The description of meditation in the samatha pdf file starts off sounding like TM and then morphs into something else, or so it seems. Any technique that inspires that kind of first-hand description definitely isn't TM, though without direct comparisons of EEG and other physiological parameters, we can't be sure if the distinctions have any pragmatic effect on what is actually going on in the brain. Also, Ken Wilber's cute little EEG demo shows nothing in and of itself. Vaj appears to be basing his claims on Wilber's demo or something that he has done himself with similar apparatus. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
