[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Hi G, I think you are on to something with his contempt for his own followers. Have you seen the comparison of the narcissistic personality disorder and Indian Gurus, mostly focused on Rajaneesh? No, but Mahesh is incredibly narcissistic: his name on everything, more and more things. Someone mentioned here awhile ago that they had heard MMY's explanation for putting his name on things, but I don't believe they said what it was. I'd be interested to know. The original idea was to name the university using the Western tradition, which was to name it after someone important to the people running the university. In this case, MMY. He said at first he objected and then realized that maharishi meant someone who could teach others to become rishis and that the purpose of MIU was to train people to become maharishis themselves so he allowed it. Right, I'd heard that. But the question was about his naming *everything* Maharishi-this and Maharishi- that, not just the university. Think that that is just what you said: a branding issue. They missed out on the clothing line, in case you hadn't noticed.. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: Several lawsuits have been filed, Bill, one of the most well- known being for false advertising about flying technique, and claiming they could teach people to fly. Not sure what the outcome was, I think it was settled out-of-court. Another was a court case in NJ that asserted that TM was, indeed, a religion (or had religious overtones and couldn't be taught in the public schools.) Sal Malnak v Yogi. The case was concerning TM+SCI+puja. TM, by itself, was never analysed seaprately from the theoretical course taught along with it. It raises issues for the Lynch Foundation -- particularly if a whole school signs up. And its a public school. But no public funds are used. Does the court ruling set a precedent that would effect that? No, the court ruling had to do only with the use of public funds, of course (the establishment clause of the First Amendment). As long as the gummint ain't paying for it, it has nothing to say. That was my first thought. But other issues came to mind. The TMO would be using public facilities. I guess the TMO could pay fair rent. the real issue that seemed fuzzy -- which may be a non issue -- that is low probability -- is what if the school admin bought the package, and told public university students that they were mandated to take the TMO course. Similar to being mandated to get an exam at the med center. Or to take a date/rape sexual harrassement class. Not all students want to do so, but are required to. It could be made an elective available to everyone and meditation facilities could be made available to everyone for sitting there for 20 minutes or so with eyes shut... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: Several lawsuits have been filed, Bill, one of the most well- known being for false advertising about flying technique, and claiming they could teach people to fly. Not sure what the outcome was, I think it was settled out-of-court. Another was a court case in NJ that asserted that TM was, indeed, a religion (or had religious overtones and couldn't be taught in the public schools.) Sal Malnak v Yogi. The case was concerning TM+SCI+puja. TM, by itself, was never analysed seaprately from the theoretical course taught along with it. It raises issues for the Lynch Foundation -- particularly if a whole school signs up. And its a public school. But no public funds are used. Does the court ruling set a precedent that would effect that? No, the court ruling had to do only with the use of public funds, of course (the establishment clause of the First Amendment). As long as the gummint ain't paying for it, it has nothing to say. And the teaching of TM/SCI during classtime and the requirement that everyone attend a puja, etc. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: Several lawsuits have been filed, Bill, one of the most well- known being for false advertising about flying technique, and claiming they could teach people to fly. Not sure what the outcome was, I think it was settled out-of-court. Another was a court case in NJ that asserted that TM was, indeed, a religion (or had religious overtones and couldn't be taught in the public schools.) Sal Malnak v Yogi. The case was concerning TM+SCI+puja. TM, by itself, was never analysed seaprately from the theoretical course taught along with it. It raises issues for the Lynch Foundation -- particularly if a whole school signs up. And its a public school. But no public funds are used. Does the court ruling set a precedent that would effect that? No, the court ruling had to do only with the use of public funds, of course (the establishment clause of the First Amendment). As long as the gummint ain't paying for it, it has nothing to say. That was my first thought. But other issues came to mind. The TMO would be using public facilities. I guess the TMO could pay fair rent. Yes, that's covered under government funding. That was the issue in New Jersey. the real issue that seemed fuzzy -- which may be a non issue -- that is low probability -- is what if the school admin bought the package, and told public university students that they were mandated to take the TMO course. Similar to being mandated to get an exam at the med center. Or to take a date/rape sexual harrassement class. Not all students want to do so, but are required to. That would definitely queer the deal. Also, there may be a different, less stringent standard for college students as opposed to high school students. Remember, somebody has to bring a lawsuit for there to be any kind of ruling. If nobody objects to Lynch's project, it's in the clear. Well the students may not object. But the Fundies probably would. That would bring into question the faith-based initiatives. Sauce for the goose and all that. The REpublican/Fundies may have spread the word to tolerate the TM program and the like in exchange for having a risk-free access to the public schools for their own projects. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: snip 2 - the Beatles dumped him The greatest Guru he could find treated him like the clerk he was. The richest and most famous people on the planet saw him for what he was. Paul McCartney on Maharishi Former Beatle Paul McCartney was the guest on The Charlie Rose Show on PBS [US public broadcasting system] on Monday June 11, 2001. The interview lasted 55 min. Charlie Rose's last question was What do you look forward to at this stage in your life? Paul answered that he looked forward to enjoying life. He shifted immediately into talking about meditation and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, speaking of the value of the balancing and centering effects of Transcendental Meditation --it's always something you can come back to. He spoke of how nice it was being with Maharishi in India in the 60's, saying that Maharishi was the real thing, and that a lot of teachers or gurus of that time were going around in Rolls Royces, with actresses, but that Maharishi had done none of that. He added that before the Beatles left India, Maharishi gave them signed copies of his book [probably The Science of Being and the Art of Living], which Paul indicated was full of wisdom. Paul spoke of his interest in seeing what Maharishi had written Radiate bliss consciousness. ENJOY. Paul spoke of how important it was to enjoy one's life, and of his trip to see Maharishi in Holland about 18 months ago. He said Maharishi is now in his 80's, still working, and very vital and lively. Paul's two children accompanied him. Before going in, they were told that it wasn't possible to know how long the meeting would last--it might be short if Maharishi was tired. The meeting lasted over 4 hours. Paul's daughter asked him if she could shoot some video; Maharishi said of course it was okay. Paul's daughter took the camera, and asked: What do you have to say to the camera, Maharishi? He laughed and said, ENJOY! Paul's comment on this to Charlie Rose was Very consistent after 30 years!. http://www.tm-ireland.org/news.htm The following is a transcript of a portion of PBS' Charlie Rose Show from June 8, 2001 in which Paul McCartney talks about Maharishi Mahesh Yogi CHARLIE ROSE: What do you look forward to now? PAUL McCARTNEY: I look forward to enjoying myself. It's one of the great things for me, it seems a bit sort of corny sometimes when people say that. But when years ago when we studied meditation with the Maharishi in India we had a real good time. And I always felt, it was a very valuable experience and it was a process that you could always go back to. if you're in a turmoil, it's a centering process that I like alot. And he gave us his book, the great wise man gave us his book. Because he was one of the ones who wasn't a fake. There were alot of them around that time who were into Rolls Royces and chicks and he wasn't one of them. He gave us his book and I looked to see what he would write besides putting his name in it. And he wrote about, he said: `radiate bliss consciousness'. Then at the end of it he just put: `enjoy'. And I always thought that was really cool coming from him and I actually met him quite recently just a year and a half ago, I think. He lives in the Netherlands now and he is a spry old codger, he's in his 80s and he's still working and still spreading the message, he's still going. And I took Stella, my daughter, and James, my son, with me and I said `would it be okay if we all came to see you' and they said `yeah, okay'. So we went in for a meeting with him and they said `we don't know how long you'll have. You know it could be over quite quickly, we don't know if he'll get tired quickly or whatever'. In the end, it was four hours, we just sat chatting for four hours. We just had a good old time. But before we went in, Stella said to me: `Dad, I've got my video camera, do you think I could shoot him with a video?' I said: `Well, I don't know. I don't know what the scene is here', I said,'but give it to me, I'll put it in my pocket and at the end of our session I'll just ask him'. She said `okay'. Well, of course, the session came and Stella (indicates her nudging him) so I said: `Maharishi, would it be okay if we just shot a little bit of video? And he giggled nad he said yes, of course'. You know. So I gave Stella the camera and she says: `Okay, Maharishi, what have you got to say for the camera? And he looks right in the camera, he says: Enjoy'. It's thirty years later, pretty consistent. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: snip Perhaps MMY played hooky from class the day this philosophy was taught. Still looking for ammo to use against your ex? It's such a classic story, isn't it? Sounds like a TV-movie: beautiful woman, guy is madly in love but can't deal with the guru trip. He roots around looking for dirt on the guru and confronts her with it. She puts up a huge fight, but he's got the goods, and eventually she has to confront the truth. And once she's come to her senses, she's deeply grateful to him for rescuing her. Of course, they live happily ever after. I'd do a lot more for her then that if I thought it would help. But the bottom line is freewill. And ultimately she and everyone must be free to choose their own paths and she has chosen hers. Yes, good, write that down too. That's the hero's big speech at the end of the second act, right before the commercial. Thats all you can muster up,,,simple sarcasm. Perhaps I over estimated your abilities. Pity I had hoped for some intelligent dialogue. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [I wrote:] Right, I'd heard that. But the question was about his naming *everything* Maharishi-this and Maharishi- that, not just the university. I think he decided that he's been know as 'The Maharishi'; By the masses; And by various pronunciations of Maharishi, by those within the movement. And he has always wanted his teaching to be 'pure'. And he is attempting to bring the knowledge of the Vedas; In as pure a form possible to humanity; So, I think for him to use the term Maharishi; Is to signify, that the particular teaching is his; As there are so many people who have jumped on the bandwagon; Of teaching everything imaginable; So, I suppose he wanted to give a framework; And keep that framework distinct from all the other; Teachings out there. I think that's right. And the various names are trademarked in one way or another so nobody else can use them. It's just a convenient way of branding things so people know what they're getting. It's also *possibly* because MMY doesn't want any of his own mistakes to be attributed to Guru Dev. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Malnak v Yogi. The case was concerning TM+SCI+puja. TM, by itself, was never analysed seaprately from the theoretical course taught along with it. It raises issues for the Lynch Foundation -- particularly if a whole school signs up. And its a public school. But no public funds are used. Does the court ruling set a precedent that would effect that? No, the court ruling had to do only with the use of public funds, of course (the establishment clause of the First Amendment). As long as the gummint ain't paying for it, it has nothing to say. And the teaching of TM/SCI during classtime and the requirement that everyone attend a puja, etc. Right, the use of government funds for any of these things. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Of course, they live happily ever after. I'd do a lot more for her then that if I thought it would help. But the bottom line is freewill. And ultimately she and everyone must be free to choose their own paths and she has chosen hers. Yes, good, write that down too. That's the hero's big speech at the end of the second act, right before the commercial. Thats all you can muster up,,,simple sarcasm. Perhaps I over estimated your abilities. Pity I had hoped for some intelligent dialogue. Er, well, you know, maybe if you said something that was, like, new and different, rather than the kind of thing we could expect to hear in a TV-movie... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Here's the nutshell ruling. I bought the entire ruling last night. Andrew is very unhappy with me for continuing to disagree with him on this issue, BTW. He doesn't see a difference between TM and SCI/TM as put forth in the ruling. The relevant part of the ruling: Did you show him the appeals court ruling, with the concurring opinion of Judge Adams? Adams's opinion goes into more detail on this point. That opinion is really fascinating; it's a mini-course in First Amendment law pertaining to religion, beautifully reasoned and very clearly written, not at all technical for the layperson. Maybe I should upload it to the Files section. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Malnak v Yogi. The case was concerning TM+SCI+puja. TM, by itself, was never analysed seaprately from the theoretical course taught along with it. It raises issues for the Lynch Foundation -- particularly if a whole school signs up. And its a public school. But no public funds are used. Does the court ruling set a precedent that would effect that? No, the court ruling had to do only with the use of public funds, of course (the establishment clause of the First Amendment). As long as the gummint ain't paying for it, it has nothing to say. And the teaching of TM/SCI during classtime and the requirement that everyone attend a puja, etc. Right, the use of government funds for any of these things. More than just the use of government funds. Lending ANY kind of support was forbidden. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Here's the nutshell ruling. I bought the entire ruling last night. Andrew is very unhappy with me for continuing to disagree with him on this issue, BTW. He doesn't see a difference between TM and SCI/TM as put forth in the ruling. The relevant part of the ruling: Did you show him the appeals court ruling, with the concurring opinion of Judge Adams? Adams's opinion goes into more detail on this point. That opinion is really fascinating; it's a mini-course in First Amendment law pertaining to religion, beautifully reasoned and very clearly written, not at all technical for the layperson. Maybe I should upload it to the Files section. It's interesting, but not relevant in most lawyer's minds, I think. The Malnak test was divised by Meanor, not Adams, and THAT is what is cited in case law. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Malnak v Yogi. The case was concerning TM+SCI+puja. TM, by itself, was never analysed seaprately from the theoretical course taught along with it. It raises issues for the Lynch Foundation -- particularly if a whole school signs up. And its a public school. But no public funds are used. Does the court ruling set a precedent that would effect that? No, the court ruling had to do only with the use of public funds, of course (the establishment clause of the First Amendment). As long as the gummint ain't paying for it, it has nothing to say. And the teaching of TM/SCI during classtime and the requirement that everyone attend a puja, etc. Right, the use of government funds for any of these things. More than just the use of government funds. Lending ANY kind of support was forbidden. Semantics, Lawson. It all boils down to financial support one way or the other. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Here's the nutshell ruling. I bought the entire ruling last night. Andrew is very unhappy with me for continuing to disagree with him on this issue, BTW. He doesn't see a difference between TM and SCI/TM as put forth in the ruling. The relevant part of the ruling: Did you show him the appeals court ruling, with the concurring opinion of Judge Adams? Adams's opinion goes into more detail on this point. That opinion is really fascinating; it's a mini-course in First Amendment law pertaining to religion, beautifully reasoned and very clearly written, not at all technical for the layperson. Maybe I should upload it to the Files section. It's interesting, but not relevant in most lawyer's minds, I think. The Malnak test was divised by Meanor, not Adams, and THAT is what is cited in case law. I don't know why you think that's relevant. As I said, Adams's opinion goes into more detail on the very point you were arguing with Skolnick about. It doesn't matter who came up with it or what is cited in case law or what other lawyers think. And it isn't the Malnak test anyway, it's the Nyquist test (Nyquist being the defendant in a Supreme Court First Amendment case relating to federal funding of potentially religious activity). Meanor *applied* the Nyquist test in Malnak v. Yogi, he didn't devise the test. Adams *discusses* Meanor's application of the Nyquist test. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Malnak v Yogi. The case was concerning TM+SCI+puja. TM, by itself, was never analysed seaprately from the theoretical course taught along with it. It raises issues for the Lynch Foundation -- particularly if a whole school signs up. And its a public school. But no public funds are used. Does the court ruling set a precedent that would effect that? No, the court ruling had to do only with the use of public funds, of course (the establishment clause of the First Amendment). As long as the gummint ain't paying for it, it has nothing to say. And the teaching of TM/SCI during classtime and the requirement that everyone attend a puja, etc. Right, the use of government funds for any of these things. More than just the use of government funds. Lending ANY kind of support was forbidden. Semantics, Lawson. It all boils down to financial support one way or the other. Still more than just financial support. Talking it up was forbidden as well. The defendents: hereby are permanently enjoined: (1) From the teaching, aiding in the teaching (including but not limited to the providing of teaching materials), and the solicitation of any municipality, school board or other political subdivision or governmental agency of the State of New Jersey or of the Federal government, for the purpose of promoting the teaching of any course of study which embodies and advocates any one or more of the Science of Creative Intelligence/Transcendental Meditation, the concepts of the field of pure creative intelligence, creative intelligence and bliss-consciousness; To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip No, the court ruling had to do only with the use of public funds, of course (the establishment clause of the First Amendment). As long as the gummint ain't paying for it, it has nothing to say. And the teaching of TM/SCI during classtime and the requirement that everyone attend a puja, etc. Right, the use of government funds for any of these things. More than just the use of government funds. Lending ANY kind of support was forbidden. Semantics, Lawson. It all boils down to financial support one way or the other. Still more than just financial support. Talking it up was forbidden as well. Talking it up while they're being paid by the gummint. They're free to say anything they want in their off hours when they're not representing the gummint. The defendents: hereby are permanently enjoined: (1) From the teaching, aiding in the teaching (including but not limited to the providing of teaching materials), and the solicitation of any municipality, school board or other political subdivision or governmental agency of the State of New Jersey or of the Federal government, for the purpose of promoting the teaching of any course of study which embodies and advocates any one or more of the Science of Creative Intelligence/Transcendental Meditation, the concepts of the field of pure creative intelligence, creative intelligence and bliss- consciousness; To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip No, the court ruling had to do only with the use of public funds, of course (the establishment clause of the First Amendment). As long as the gummint ain't paying for it, it has nothing to say. And the teaching of TM/SCI during classtime and the requirement that everyone attend a puja, etc. Right, the use of government funds for any of these things. More than just the use of government funds. Lending ANY kind of support was forbidden. Semantics, Lawson. It all boils down to financial support one way or the other. Still more than just financial support. Talking it up was forbidden as well. Talking it up while they're being paid by the gummint. They're free to say anything they want in their off hours when they're not representing the gummint. The defendents: hereby are permanently enjoined: (1) From the teaching, aiding in the teaching (including but not limited to the providing of teaching materials), and the solicitation of any municipality, school board or other political subdivision or governmental agency of the State of New Jersey or of the Federal government, for the purpose of promoting the teaching of any course of study which embodies and advocates any one or more of the Science of Creative Intelligence/Transcendental Meditation, the concepts of the field of pure creative intelligence, creative intelligence and bliss- consciousness; M... I read the above as pretty much a blanket thing. None of the defendents were/ are allowed to promote any of the above TO any of the above, period, whether they're acting as officers of TM, the state gov or as the Secretary of Health, education and Welfare (one of teh defendents named) OR as private citizens. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip No, the court ruling had to do only with the use of public funds, of course (the establishment clause of the First Amendment). As long as the gummint ain't paying for it, it has nothing to say. And the teaching of TM/SCI during classtime and the requirement that everyone attend a puja, etc. Right, the use of government funds for any of these things. More than just the use of government funds. Lending ANY kind of support was forbidden. Semantics, Lawson. It all boils down to financial support one way or the other. Still more than just financial support. Talking it up was forbidden as well. Talking it up while they're being paid by the gummint. They're free to say anything they want in their off hours when they're not representing the gummint. The defendents: hereby are permanently enjoined: (1) From the teaching, aiding in the teaching (including but not limited to the providing of teaching materials), and the solicitation of any municipality, school board or other political subdivision or governmental agency of the State of New Jersey or of the Federal government, for the purpose of promoting the teaching of any course of study which embodies and advocates any one or more of the Science of Creative Intelligence/Transcendental Meditation, the concepts of the field of pure creative intelligence, creative intelligence and bliss- consciousness; M... I read the above as pretty much a blanket thing. None of the defendents were/ are allowed to promote any of the above TO any of the above, period, whether they're acting as officers of TM, the state gov or as the Secretary of Health, education and Welfare (one of teh defendents named) OR as private citizens. If you laid such a prohibition on a private citizen, you'd be violating the *other* clause of the First Amendment, that of freedom of religion. And in any case, those you would be talking it up to who were in a position to implement it wouldn't be able to. All that's necessary is to say it can't be financed with government funds, and that covers any talking done by those who could implement it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I cut and pasted this claim from a MUM web page claiming that Where as little as 1% of population is practising TM the trend of rising crime rates is REVERSED. Think it through carefully. It is entirely possible that the ME doesn't work. On the other hand, statistical analysis require LARGE groups of test subjects. For something like the ME, the group required to notice the effect reliably might conceivably be much larger than Fairfield itself. Consider the Taste of Untopia course. The effect on Fairfield would be large just because everyone is there, but the effect of several people running stop signs in a hurry to get to the Domes for group practice would be many times larger than, say, a 10% reduction in traffic violations by the local non-meditating population. Likewise, the Maharishi Effect WITHIN a group of sidhas might also be large, but the redution in crime rate affecting the group itself would be overwhelmed by the presence of a single sidha who happened to be a pickpocket (this happened during a course in DC-- don't know if the person was a sidha or just wandered in off the street but the police were called because of an incident--either way, a single individual's behavior in a group of 10,000 can skew the ressults in ways that don't happen when you look at the changes in behavior in a group of one million or 10 million or a billion, even if the effect is far, far smaller than in the group of sidhas allegedly having the effect). If you want a truely silly example, that really happened, consider the ME and its affect on sewage problem. Nothing in the theory says much about such a measure, but in fact, the immeditate effect of the ME in Fairfield was todestroy the town's sewage system. 8000 people in a town of 8000 getting up at the same time, using the bathroom at the same time, and flushing at the same time, explodes sewers. It's all the faultof the ME. Statisticians call it the Law of Large Numbers --things behave differently when you look at small populations and large populations. Again, this doesn't say anything about whether or not the ME exists, but it DOES explain why you can't disprove the ME by looking at the local effects in Fairfield. It also explains why much of the research on the local effects in fairfield is just pure marketing. Fairfield is a lousy place to conduct ME studies, and deep down inside, the TM researchers know this. You can't prove the ME or even offer reliable support for the ME, by looking at local statistics, but it DOES make for nice woo-woo feel good reports when things get better in Fairfield during a big course. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: I cut and pasted this claim from a MUM web page claiming that Where as little as 1% of population is practising TM the trend of rising crime rates is REVERSED. Bill, I think your observation is interesting, especially when we have to take into account the murder at MUM a couple of years ago. MUM doesn't seem to be any different from any other academic setting. They all have theft, cheating, even murders. It really does seem like the real Mahesh Effect is to take credit for the accomplishments of others and blame others when things don't seem to satisfy Mahesh's predictions. I have asked Rick to post the PDF of the File I alluded to earlier. I have also posted a Word document of some other real science evaluations of the MishMash Effect. What really works is TM, especially when done in group and course setting: it simply creates the ideal situation for the implant of Maheshism. See www.suggestibility.org/ The actual physical affects of hypnosis seem to be different than the effects of TM. That doesn't mean to say that TMers aren't damned suggestible, on the whole, but the suggestibility.org stuff implies that TM makes you MORE suggestible, and what little research there is on hypnosis and EEG suggests the exact opposite. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: snip I have asked Rick to post the PDF of the File I alluded to earlier. I have also posted a Word document of some other real science evaluations of the MishMash Effect. Boy, pretty slim pickings, huh? Too bad you couldn't find anything besides the Markovsky piece that is actually scientific. You might try pursuing some of the leads I provided, see if you can beef it up a little. (You might also want to correct your typo Afles for Fales, the name of Markovsky's co-author.) Gerbal88 should know that I know Markovsky personally. He's a likeable guy and we spent an afternoon together when he was in Tucson many years back. He had dinner with my family. We just disagree on much of what he *concludes* about the ME and TM. Much of what he SAYS in his analysis of the ME is spot on, however: the ME is a very primitive theory, if it deserves that title, and much work would be needed to make it acceptable (not believed, just acceptable) to the rest of the scientific community. That doesn't make the ME wrong, or invalidate the studies, of course. ALL theories start out primitive and need tidying up. Some more than others. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length of time factor of the study group. 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into the community and should be verifable through past public/police/court records. 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community. 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators. To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved. Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many reported offenses occured say last year? The trends should point to a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in the community. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: I cut and pasted this claim from a MUM web page claiming that Where as little as 1% of population is practising TM the trend of rising crime rates is REVERSED. Think it through carefully. It is entirely possible that the ME doesn't work. On the other hand, statistical analysis require LARGE groups of test subjects. For something like the ME, the group required to notice the effect reliably might conceivably be much larger than Fairfield itself. Consider the Taste of Untopia course. The effect on Fairfield would be large just because everyone is there, but the effect of several people running stop signs in a hurry to get to the Domes for group practice would be many times larger than, say, a 10% reduction in traffic violations by the local non-meditating population. Likewise, the Maharishi Effect WITHIN a group of sidhas might also be large, but the redution in crime rate affecting the group itself would be overwhelmed by the presence of a single sidha who happened to be a pickpocket (this happened during a course in DC-- don't know if the person was a sidha or just wandered in off the street but the police were called because of an incident--either way, a single individual's behavior in a group of 10,000 can skew the ressults in ways that don't happen when you look at the changes in behavior in a group of one million or 10 million or a billion, even if the effect is far, far smaller than in the group of sidhas allegedly having the effect). If you want a truely silly example, that really happened, consider the ME and its affect on sewage problem. Nothing in the theory says much about such a measure, but in fact, the immeditate effect of the ME in Fairfield was todestroy the town's sewage system. 8000 people in a town of 8000 getting up at the same time, using the bathroom at the same time, and flushing at the same time, explodes sewers. It's all the faultof the ME. Statisticians call it the Law of Large Numbers --things behave differently when you look at small populations and large populations. Again, this doesn't say anything about whether or not the ME exists, but it DOES explain why you can't disprove the ME by looking at the local effects in Fairfield. It also explains why much of the research on the local effects in fairfield is just pure marketing. Fairfield is a lousy place to conduct ME studies, and deep down inside, the TM researchers know this. You can't prove the ME or even offer reliable support for the ME, by looking at local statistics, but it DOES make for nice woo-woo feel good reports when things get better in Fairfield during a big course. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length of time factor of the study group. 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into the community and should be verifable through past public/police/court records. 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community. 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators. To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved. Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many reported offenses occured say last year? The trends should point to a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in the community. For whatever it is worth: http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/SocietalEffects/FairfieldCrime/index.cfm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For whatever it is worth: http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/SocietalEffects/FairfieldCrime/index. cfm Heyit was certainly worth a laugh. astillchucklinwas To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: I cut and pasted this claim from a MUM web page claiming that Where as little as 1% of population is practising TM the trend of rising crime rates is REVERSED. Think it through carefully. It is entirely possible that the ME doesn't work. On the other hand, statistical analysis require LARGE groups of test subjects. For something like the ME, the group required to notice the effect reliably might conceivably be much larger than Fairfield itself. Consider the Taste of Untopia course. The effect on Fairfield would be large just because everyone is there, but the effect of several people running stop signs in a hurry to get to the Domes for group practice would be many times larger than, say, a 10% reduction in traffic violations by the local non-meditating population. Likewise, the Maharishi Effect WITHIN a group of sidhas might also be large, but the redution in crime rate affecting the group itself would be overwhelmed by the presence of a single sidha who happened to be a pickpocket (this happened during a course in DC-- don't know if the person was a sidha or just wandered in off the street but the police were called because of an incident--either way, a single individual's behavior in a group of 10,000 can skew the ressults in ways that don't happen when you look at the changes in behavior in a group of one million or 10 million or a billion, even if the effect is far, far smaller than in the group of sidhas allegedly having the effect). If you want a truely silly example, that really happened, consider the ME and its affect on sewage problem. Nothing in the theory says much about such a measure, but in fact, the immeditate effect of the ME in Fairfield was todestroy the town's sewage system. 8000 people in a town of 8000 getting up at the same time, using the bathroom at the same time, and flushing at the same time, explodes sewers. It's all the faultof the ME. Statisticians call it the Law of Large Numbers --things behave differently when you look at small populations and large populations. Again, this doesn't say anything about whether or not the ME exists, but it DOES explain why you can't disprove the ME by looking at the local effects in Fairfield. This is an example of what Curtis accuses the TMO of doing: carefully wording the ME claims to be unfalsifiable. Oops. Except that the Law of Large Numbers wasn't invented by the TMO, was it? It's a standard principle of statistics, right? So therefore, when you're doing a statistical analysis, you *have* to take the Law of Large Numbers into account, which means, as you just said, that the ME theory can't be falsified by evidence that the crime rate in Fairfield has gone up without violating statistical principles. It also explains why much of the research on the local effects in fairfield is just pure marketing. Fairfield is a lousy place to conduct ME studies, and deep down inside, the TM researchers know this. You can't prove the ME or even offer reliable support for the ME, by looking at local statistics, but it DOES make for nice woo-woo feel good reports when things get better in Fairfield during a big course. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: For whatever it is worth: http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/SocietalEffects/FairfieldCrime/index . cfm Heyit was certainly worth a laugh. astillchucklinwas Guess you'd rather not explain why you found it so amusing, eh? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length of time factor of the study group. 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into the community and should be verifable through past public/police/court records. 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community. 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators. To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved. Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many reported offenses occured say last year? The trends should point to a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in the community. Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about understanding the field effects of consciousness they would have to understand why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to integrate this apparent contradiction. They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Nicely stated. Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs and if you want to join you know what you are getting into. Religions operate this way also and it has a certain integrity. TM's presentation has always had a slippery element. Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his downfall. I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be anything else. I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you stand and I can learn a different view. It has integrity. TM's presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up being a pseudo materialistic spirituality. I think low movement numbers reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is. The pompous and ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity integrity. Rich guys in gold party hats. Visual poetic justice! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length of time factor of the study group. 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into the community and should be verifable through past public/police/court records. 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community. 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators. To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved. Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many reported offenses occured say last year? The trends should point to a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in the community. Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about understanding the field effects of consciousness they would have to understand why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to integrate this apparent contradiction. They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length of time factor of the study group. 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into the community and should be verifable through past public/police/court records. 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community. 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators. To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved. Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many reported offenses occured say last year? The trends should point to a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in the community. Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about understanding the field effects of consciousness they would have to understand why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to integrate this apparent contradiction. How exceedingly odd that you deleted Lawson's detailed explanation of why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield, and then claimed there wasn't any. I can understand why Bill's response to what Lawson wrote completely ignores Lawson's explanation as if it had never existed, but I'm baffled that you would do the same thing, Peter. They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Oh, so that's the reason you pretended Lawson hadn't provided an explanation. *You're* not interested in the ME for scientific reasons. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Nicely stated. Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs and if you want to join you know what you are getting into. Religions operate this way also and it has a certain integrity. TM's presentation has always had a slippery element. Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his downfall. I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be anything else. I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you stand and I can learn a different view. It has integrity. TM's presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up being a pseudo materialistic spirituality. I think low movement numbers reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is. The pompous and ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity integrity. Rich guys in gold party hats. Visual poetic justice! I'm waiting for the Raja rebellion where they stand up and say No more! toss their gold-painted crowns aside and dance the funky chicken with the Mother divine ladies! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length of time factor of the study group. 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into the community and should be verifable through past public/police/court records. 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community. 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators. To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved. Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many reported offenses occured say last year? The trends should point to a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in the community. Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about understanding the field effects of consciousness they would have to understand why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to integrate this apparent contradiction. They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about understanding the field effects of consciousness they would have to understand why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to integrate this apparent contradiction. How exceedingly odd that you deleted Lawson's detailed explanation of why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield, and then claimed there wasn't any. I can understand why Bill's response to what Lawson wrote completely ignores Lawson's explanation as if it had never existed, but I'm baffled that you would do the same thing, Peter. Maybe I was too hasty in my snipping. I'll be more careful next time. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
And give up the ass kissing they paid so much cash for? I don't think so. The TMers will have to knock the crowns off with tomatoes. Now the image of Mother Divine ladies dancing, that is an image that will haunt me all day! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Nicely stated. Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs and if you want to join you know what you are getting into. Religions operate this way also and it has a certain integrity. TM's presentation has always had a slippery element. Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his downfall. I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be anything else. I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you stand and I can learn a different view. It has integrity. TM's presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up being a pseudo materialistic spirituality. I think low movement numbers reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is. The pompous and ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity integrity. Rich guys in gold party hats. Visual poetic justice! I'm waiting for the Raja rebellion where they stand up and say No more! toss their gold-painted crowns aside and dance the funky chicken with the Mother divine ladies! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length of time factor of the study group. 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into the community and should be verifable through past public/police/court records. 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community. 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators. To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved. Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many reported offenses occured say last year? The trends should point to a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in the community. Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about understanding the field effects of consciousness they would have to understand why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to integrate this apparent contradiction. They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about understanding the field effects of consciousness they would have to understand why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to integrate this apparent contradiction. How exceedingly odd that you deleted Lawson's detailed explanation of why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield, and then claimed there wasn't any. I can understand why Bill's response to what Lawson wrote completely ignores Lawson's explanation as if it had never existed, but I'm baffled that you would do the same thing, Peter. Maybe I was too hasty in my snipping. I'll be more careful next time. Uh-huh. Or you could even go back and look at Lawson's explanation, then offer any critiques you might have. I mean, he *did* explain why the ME might not appear to work in Fairfield. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length of time factor of the study group. 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into the community and should be verifable through past public/police/court records. 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community. 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators. To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved. Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many reported offenses occured say last year? The trends should point to a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in the community. Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about understanding the field effects of consciousness they would have to understand why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to integrate this apparent contradiction. They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. ??? MMY uses the ME as a reason why he does NOT have to promote TM. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Nicely stated. Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs and if you want to join you know what you are getting into. Religions operate this way also and it has a certain integrity. TM's presentation has always had a slippery element. Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his downfall. I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be anything else. I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you stand and I can learn a different view. It has integrity. TM's presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up being a pseudo materialistic spirituality. I think low movement numbers reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is. The pompous and ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity integrity. Rich guys in gold party hats. Visual poetic justice! Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. So the purpose of the Raja thing is to turn people off? I don't get your point. As far as twisting reality to find flaws, come on man. The Raja thing stand on its own without any twisting. It is pompous and ridiculous. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Nicely stated. Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs and if you want to join you know what you are getting into. Religions operate this way also and it has a certain integrity. TM's presentation has always had a slippery element. Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his downfall. I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be anything else. I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you stand and I can learn a different view. It has integrity. TM's presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up being a pseudo materialistic spirituality. I think low movement numbers reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is. The pompous and ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity integrity. Rich guys in gold party hats. Visual poetic justice! Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Nicely stated. Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs and if you want to join you know what you are getting into. Religions operate this way also and it has a certain integrity. TM's presentation has always had a slippery element. Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his downfall. I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be anything else. I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you stand and I can learn a different view. It has integrity. TM's presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up being a pseudo materialistic spirituality. I think low movement numbers reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is. The pompous and ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity integrity. Rich guys in gold party hats. Visual poetic justice! Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. Ah, but it's much easier to argue against straw men of your own devising. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Lawson wrote:] and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. [Curtis wrote:] So the purpose of the Raja thing is to turn people off? I don't get your point. Unbelievable. Chemotherapy certainly makes people nauseated. Therefore (Curtis would say), the purpose of chemotherapy is to make people nauseated. As far as twisting reality to find flaws, come on man. The Raja thing stand on its own without any twisting. It is pompous and ridiculous. Curtis. Lawson AGREES WITH YOU on that point. He's made that crystal clear. So that opinion could not possibly be what he's referring to. The twisting of reality you're doing is to ignore (see analogy above) what chemotherapy might be doing *other than* making people nauseated. As Lawson pointed out (but you did not quote in your response above): snip Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. You're not a stupid person, Curtis. What Lawson said is not that difficult to understand. If you *disagree* with it, say so, and say why. Don't pretend he didn't explain why he thinks you're twisting reality. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig on 8/14/06 11:02 AM, curtisdeltablues at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. So the purpose of the Raja thing is to turn people off? I don't get your point. As far as twisting reality to find flaws, come on man. The Raja thing stand on its own without any twisting. It is pompous and ridiculous. The raja thing turns most people off. There is, of course, a hard core who are inspired by it. Who feel that MMY is reestablishing the foundation of a Vedic Monarchy, the ideal form of government. Who think the rajas are enlightened. Who Namaste them reverentially. Who pay a local bagpipe player $50 to play while John Konhaus walks from his stretch white limo into the Raj (with no one other than John and the driver to hear him). These people feel that they are the fortunate ones and that everyone else in the world is too unenlightened or karmically unfortunate to get it. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. He isn't even accomplishing the ME numbers is he? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Nicely stated. Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs and if you want to join you know what you are getting into. Religions operate this way also and it has a certain integrity. TM's presentation has always had a slippery element. Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his downfall. I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be anything else. I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you stand and I can learn a different view. It has integrity. TM's presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up being a pseudo materialistic spirituality. I think low movement numbers reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is. The pompous and ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity integrity. Rich guys in gold party hats. Visual poetic justice! Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. He isn't even accomplishing the ME numbers is he? Non sequitur. It's Barry's trick again, conflating Maharishi sez with What Maharishi sez is true. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
Is Barry now writing under Curtis's account? Man, that guy is crafty, what will he think of next. Sal On Aug 14, 2006, at 11:39 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. He isn't even accomplishing the ME numbers is he? Non sequitur. It's Barry's trick again, conflating Maharishi sez with What Maharishi sez is true. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. He isn't even accomplishing the ME numbers is he? Hi, Curtis -- I doubt Mahesh cares what he is doing. He wanted massive numbers initiated because he got half the take. Which was the point of creating massive numbers of initiators in from 71-73. He doesn't need the money any more. The ME crap is just his joke on all those who are witless enough to take him seriously. He's famously known for making fun of the people who worship him. The Raja thing just has to be a joke. Yesterday I caught an Indian traditional movie with Rajas and such wearing gold crowns and tramping about with bows and arrows. Hillarious, but sort of unwatchable. -- Mahesh's Rajas, like King Tony is just a joke: see what I can do! See how I can make you accept anything I do! I suspect he thinks of the faithful as you bastards. There is, really, an ME effect, of course: sore butts, arthritic hips, back problems, flat affect, willingness to accept the ridiculous and even pay money for it, and so one. Dear God, forgive my little joke on Thee And I will forgive Thy great big one on me. And Robert Frost didn't even know Mahesh! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
Hi G, I think you are on to something with his contempt for his own followers. Have you seen the comparison of the narcissistic personality disorder and Indian Gurus, mostly focused on Rajaneesh? It was in Free Inquiry in the late 80's. The author applied the DSM III standards to a few gurus and it really explained a lot for me. How they operate so far outside the normal constraints of reciprocal society and can exploit people because they have contempt for them. Did you ever see the Purusha play that he made up where he had the Purusha dressed up like club kid transvestites? That was really off the charts! He had them dressed like the Indian actors you describe acting out the Ramayana and Mahabharata that I catch on the Indian cable channel occasionally. Your point about the money is well taken. Since he moved into real estate as the main wealth producer it became important to have a core of followers who would do anything for him as his properties appreciated. So pushing them to accept Bob Lapinto, stock broker as DC Raja is part of the testing the limits game. He hasn't found any limits yet has he? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. He isn't even accomplishing the ME numbers is he? Hi, Curtis -- I doubt Mahesh cares what he is doing. He wanted massive numbers initiated because he got half the take. Which was the point of creating massive numbers of initiators in from 71-73. He doesn't need the money any more. The ME crap is just his joke on all those who are witless enough to take him seriously. He's famously known for making fun of the people who worship him. The Raja thing just has to be a joke. Yesterday I caught an Indian traditional movie with Rajas and such wearing gold crowns and tramping about with bows and arrows. Hillarious, but sort of unwatchable. -- Mahesh's Rajas, like King Tony is just a joke: see what I can do! See how I can make you accept anything I do! I suspect he thinks of the faithful as you bastards. There is, really, an ME effect, of course: sore butts, arthritic hips, back problems, flat affect, willingness to accept the ridiculous and even pay money for it, and so one. Dear God, forgive my little joke on Thee And I will forgive Thy great big one on me. And Robert Frost didn't even know Mahesh! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig on 8/14/06 12:21 PM, gerbal88 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Curtis -- I doubt Mahesh cares what he is doing. He wanted massive numbers initiated because he got half the take. Which was the point of creating massive numbers of initiators in from 71-73. He doesn't need the money any more. The ME crap is just his joke on all those who are witless enough to take him seriously. He's famously known for making fun of the people who worship him. You may be right. Jennifer mentioned that while she was his girl, he often used to deride the Westerners as gullible fools for believing all the things he was telling them. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
Who pay a local bagpipe player $50 to play while John Konhaus walks from his stretch white limo into the Raj (with no one other than John and the driver to hear him). Thanks for that image Rick. It helped heal the damage caused by Pete's dancing Mother Divine ladies vision! karmically unfortunate Sounds like a good name for a band! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/14/06 11:02 AM, curtisdeltablues at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. So the purpose of the Raja thing is to turn people off? I don't get your point. As far as twisting reality to find flaws, come on man. The Raja thing stand on its own without any twisting. It is pompous and ridiculous. The raja thing turns most people off. There is, of course, a hard core who are inspired by it. Who feel that MMY is reestablishing the foundation of a Vedic Monarchy, the ideal form of government. Who think the rajas are enlightened. Who Namaste them reverentially. Who pay a local bagpipe player $50 to play while John Konhaus walks from his stretch white limo into the Raj (with no one other than John and the driver to hear him). These people feel that they are the fortunate ones and that everyone else in the world is too unenlightened or karmically unfortunate to get it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
I can't help but wonder,,,When does aggressive marketing and cavalier scientific study practises cross the line and become an active attempt to de-fraud and thus become a crimminal activitiy on an organised level'. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Nicely stated. Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs and if you want to join you know what you are getting into. Religions operate this way also and it has a certain integrity. TM's presentation has always had a slippery element. Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his downfall. I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be anything else. I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you stand and I can learn a different view. It has integrity. TM's presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up being a pseudo materialistic spirituality. I think low movement numbers reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is. The pompous and ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity integrity. Rich guys in gold party hats. Visual poetic justice! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length of time factor of the study group. 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into the community and should be verifable through past public/police/court records. 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community. 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators. To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved. Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many reported offenses occured say last year? The trends should point to a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in the community. Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about understanding the field effects of consciousness they would have to understand why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to integrate this apparent contradiction. They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi G, I think you are on to something with his contempt for his own followers. Have you seen the comparison of the narcissistic personality disorder and Indian Gurus, mostly focused on Rajaneesh? No, but Mahesh is incredibly narcissistic: his name on everything, more and more things. The mind does, as he so cunningly informed us, go in the direction of more and more. Check the PDF Stripping the Gurus in the MishMash Effect I posted in the TMO the Odd Side Files. It was in Free Inquiry in the late 80's. The author applied the DSM III standards to a few gurus and it really explained a lot for me. How they operate so far outside the normal constraints of reciprocal society and can exploit people because they have contempt for them. Certainly sounds like the Mahesh I watched and watched. Did you ever see the Purusha play that he made up where he had the Purusha dressed up like club kid transvestites? No, sounds revolting. That was really off the charts! He had them dressed like the Indian actors you describe acting out the Ramayana and Mahabharata that I catch on the Indian cable channel occasionally. I still have the photos of me dressed up like the various personages in the holy tradition. Hari, Mahesh's cook, helped me do the sari type drapery. I did it for Susan Shumsky who was going to make a painting of the HT for Mahesh. She was an accomplished watercolourist. Hers is certainly NOT the painting we see behind Mahesh in Vlodrop. Your point about the money is well taken. Since he moved into real estate as the main wealth producer it became important to have a core of followers who would do anything for him as his properties appreciated. So pushing them to accept Bob Lapinto, stock broker as DC Raja is part of the testing the limits game. He hasn't found any limits yet has he? I think that's part of the joke: testing the limits, pushing the envelope. How he does it is part of the theroy I am trying to work out The TM Effect. You see smidgens of it in Beacon Light. He must have been very familiar with the dissociative effects of japa because he talked about it at my TTC. He said the mind just gets exhausted and drops into the transcendent. Bullshit. It's what he later discovered he could do with rounding: you experienced so much daydreaming/dissociative separation from yourself (to be redundant about the whole thing) that you'd accept anything as truth, gospel, prime directive if he said it. The Beatle who said ... you're so cosmic certainly was onto something. Just like Mahesh said again and again at my TTC: the actor can play god better than god. -- He could do the cosmic thing like nobody's business and it feathered his nest, ripped off the faithful, sent many into debt out of which they will never get. All for what? Forgive my little joke on thee and go to hell. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. He isn't even accomplishing the ME numbers is he? Hi, Curtis -- I doubt Mahesh cares what he is doing. He wanted massive numbers initiated because he got half the take. Which was the point of creating massive numbers of initiators in from 71-73. He doesn't need the money any more. The ME crap is just his joke on all those who are witless enough to take him seriously. He's famously known for making fun of the people who worship him. The Raja thing just has to be a joke. Yesterday I caught an Indian traditional movie with Rajas and such wearing gold crowns and tramping about with bows and arrows. Hillarious, but sort of unwatchable. - - Mahesh's Rajas, like King Tony is just a joke: see what I can do! See how I can make you accept anything I do! I suspect he thinks of the faithful as you bastards. There is, really, an ME effect, of course: sore butts, arthritic hips, back problems, flat affect, willingness to accept the ridiculous and even pay money for it, and so one. Dear God, forgive my little joke on Thee And I will forgive Thy great big one on me. And Robert Frost didn't even know Mahesh! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't help but wonder,,,When does aggressive marketing and cavalier scientific study practises cross the line and become an active attempt to de-fraud and thus become a crimminal activitiy on an organised level'. Oh, Bill, it never crosses the line! Like Mahesh quipped one day in Seelisberg when he was wanting to do something iffy and was told so: The Lawyers will make it legal! You can't defraud the faithful if they are willingly giving you everything they've got. You can't help it if they are so dazed from all the meditation and other crap you've sold them that they can't think straight. I hope you see the point of my sarcasm,it certainly isn't aimed at you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Nicely stated. Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs and if you want to join you know what you are getting into. Religions operate this way also and it has a certain integrity. TM's presentation has always had a slippery element. Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his downfall. I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be anything else. I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you stand and I can learn a different view. It has integrity. TM's presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up being a pseudo materialistic spirituality. I think low movement numbers reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is. The pompous and ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity integrity. Rich guys in gold party hats. Visual poetic justice! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length of time factor of the study group. 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into the community and should be verifable through past public/police/court records. 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community. 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators. To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved. Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many reported offenses occured say last year? The trends should point to a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in the community. Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about understanding the field effects of consciousness they would have to understand why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to integrate this apparent contradiction. They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, Sal
h, someone just emailed me personal and asked if I was barry,,,who's Barry,,,I'm Bill. noBarryhereBill --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Barry now writing under Curtis's account? Man, that guy is crafty, what will he think of next. Sal On Aug 14, 2006, at 11:39 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. He isn't even accomplishing the ME numbers is he? Non sequitur. It's Barry's trick again, conflating Maharishi sez with What Maharishi sez is true. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Barry now writing under Curtis's account? Man, that guy is crafty, what will he think of next. I can see why you might have misunderstood, Sal. After all, there's no reason you should ever have run into the situation of one person picking up a trick from another person, is there? So naturally, not being aware that one person can use another's trick, you'd assume that I was having delusions and imagining that Barry was still with us, secretly posting under Curtis's name. Makes perfect sense. On Aug 14, 2006, at 11:39 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get massive numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly turns people off and MMY knows this. I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their need to find flaws. He isn't even accomplishing the ME numbers is he? Non sequitur. It's Barry's trick again, conflating Maharishi sez with What Maharishi sez is true. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
no worries gerbal,,,I liked the post. Iffen my Hindu readings recall. The guru shall not ask for anything. The student shall offer everything. From the various articles I've read MMY is constantly asking for money,,,from governements, organisations and individuals. Hell the fact that there is a set cost for the meditations techniques proves that. I am pretty certain Hindu law itself forbids the charging of money for spiritual teachings. Words like,,,damnable hell comes to mind. Perhaps MMY played hooky from class the day this philosophy was taught. The s--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: I can't help but wonder,,,When does aggressive marketing and cavalier scientific study practises cross the line and become an active attempt to de-fraud and thus become a crimminal activitiy on an organised level'. Oh, Bill, it never crosses the line! Like Mahesh quipped one day in Seelisberg when he was wanting to do something iffy and was told so: The Lawyers will make it legal! You can't defraud the faithful if they are willingly giving you everything they've got. You can't help it if they are so dazed from all the meditation and other crap you've sold them that they can't think straight. I hope you see the point of my sarcasm,it certainly isn't aimed at you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Nicely stated. Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs and if you want to join you know what you are getting into. Religions operate this way also and it has a certain integrity. TM's presentation has always had a slippery element. Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his downfall. I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be anything else. I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you stand and I can learn a different view. It has integrity. TM's presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up being a pseudo materialistic spirituality. I think low movement numbers reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is. The pompous and ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity integrity. Rich guys in gold party hats. Visual poetic justice! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length of time factor of the study group. 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into the community and should be verifable through past public/police/court records. 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community. 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators. To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved. Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many reported offenses occured say last year? The trends should point to a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in the community. Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about understanding the field effects of consciousness they would have to understand why the ME does not appear to work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to integrate this apparent contradiction. They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page on 8/14/06 1:17 PM, gerbal88 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still have the photos of me dressed up like the various personages in the holy tradition. Hari, Mahesh's cook, helped me do the sari type drapery. I did it for Susan Shumsky who was going to make a painting of the HT for Mahesh. She was an accomplished watercolourist. Hers is certainly NOT the painting we see behind Mahesh in Vlodrop. Francis Knight did that one. Susan is no longer in the TMO: http://www.divinerevelation.org/ __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, Sal
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, Sal on 8/14/06 1:19 PM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: h, someone just emailed me personal and asked if I was barry,,,who's Barry,,,I'm Bill. Barry is someone who posted here frequently but recently decided to take a breather. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't help but wonder,,,When does aggressive marketing and cavalier scientific study practises cross the line and become an active attempt to de-fraud and thus become a crimminal activitiy on an organised level'. When you can prove intention to defraud, of course. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Hi G, I think you are on to something with his contempt for his own followers. Have you seen the comparison of the narcissistic personality disorder and Indian Gurus, mostly focused on Rajaneesh? No, but Mahesh is incredibly narcissistic: his name on everything, more and more things. Someone mentioned here awhile ago that they had heard MMY's explanation for putting his name on things, but I don't believe they said what it was. I'd be interested to know. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no worries gerbal,,,I liked the post. Iffen my Hindu readings recall. The guru shall not ask for anything. The student shall offer everything. From the various articles I've read MMY is constantly asking for money,,,from governements, organisations and individuals. Hell the fact that there is a set cost for the meditations techniques proves that. Just for the record, MMY isn't a really a guru in the traditional sense. I am pretty certain Hindu law itself forbids the charging of money for spiritual teachings. Words like,,,damnable hell comes to mind. And how many centuries ago was this law handed down, do you know? Was it addressing the situation of teachers who headed a mass movement to instruct many millions of people around the world? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, Sal
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/14/06 1:19 PM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: h, someone just emailed me personal and asked if I was barry,,,who's Barry,,,I'm Bill. Barry is someone who posted here frequently but recently decided to take a breather. And whose style (of writing and interacting) was wildly different from Bill's. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, Sal
Thanks RickI don't imagine I'll be here long. Jist visitin fer a spell. Billybobwas --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/14/06 1:19 PM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: h, someone just emailed me personal and asked if I was barry,,,who's Barry,,,I'm Bill. Barry is someone who posted here frequently but recently decided to take a breather. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
He is a brillant business man and real estate magnet from what I can see. But then I can't for the life of me figure out what the Universal consciousness needs with earthly real estate. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: no worries gerbal,,,I liked the post. Iffen my Hindu readings recall. The guru shall not ask for anything. The student shall offer everything. From the various articles I've read MMY is constantly asking for money,,,from governements, organisations and individuals. Hell the fact that there is a set cost for the meditations techniques proves that. Just for the record, MMY isn't a really a guru in the traditional sense. I am pretty certain Hindu law itself forbids the charging of money for spiritual teachings. Words like,,,damnable hell comes to mind. And how many centuries ago was this law handed down, do you know? Was it addressing the situation of teachers who headed a mass movement to instruct many millions of people around the world? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi G, I think you are on to something with his contempt for his own followers. Have you seen the comparison of the narcissistic personality disorder and Indian Gurus, mostly focused on Rajaneesh? Interestingly enough, one could make a pretty good case that enough of the the DSM-IV criteria for narcissistic personality disorder apply to Jesus Christ to diagnose him as having had it. (No, I'm not comparing MMY to Jesus.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
Several lawsuits have been filed, Bill, one of the most well-known being for false advertising about flying technique, and claiming they could teach people to fly. Not sure what the outcome was, I think it was settled out-of-court. Another was a court case in NJ that asserted that TM was, indeed, a religion (or had religious overtones and couldn't be taught in the public schools.) Sal On Aug 14, 2006, at 1:05 PM, Bill (William)Simmons wrote: I can't help but wonder,,,When does aggressive marketing and cavalier scientific study practises cross the line and become an active attempt to de-fraud and thus become a crimminal activitiy on an organised level'. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He is a brillant business man and real estate magnet from what I can see. But then I can't for the life of me figure out what the Universal consciousness needs with earthly real estate. Neither can I. Do you think that's a relevant issue? Or might it have more to do with wanting the TMO to have an unassailable financial foundation so it's not dependent on economic conditions? Oh, you didn't answer my question: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: snip I am pretty certain Hindu law itself forbids the charging of money for spiritual teachings. Words like,,,damnable hell comes to mind. And how many centuries ago was this law handed down, do you know? Was it addressing the situation of teachers who headed a mass movement to instruct many millions of people around the world? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
On Aug 14, 2006, at 1:27 PM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Barry now writing under Curtis's account? Man, that guy is crafty, what will he think of next. I can see why you might have misunderstood, Sal. After all, there's no reason you should ever have run into the situation of one person picking up a trick from another person, is there? Judy, I have no doubt that if Honest Abe himself said something you didn't like, you'd see a trick in it. So naturally, not being aware that one person can use another's trick, you'd assume that I was having delusions and imagining that Barry was still with us, secretly posting under Curtis's name. Makes perfect sense. I knew it would. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi G, I think you are on to something with his contempt for his own followers. Have you seen the comparison of the narcissistic personality disorder and Indian Gurus, mostly focused on Rajaneesh? It was in Free Inquiry in the late 80's. The author applied the DSM III standards to a few gurus and it really explained a lot for me. How they operate so far outside the normal constraints of reciprocal society and can exploit people because they have contempt for them. Those interested in this topic could check out the book, Prophetic Charisma: The Psychology of Revolutionary Religious Personalies by Len Oakes. Started out as a PhD thesis and expanded into a book. Oakes also finds narcissism as the common personality trait in a group of charismatic spiritual leaders that he studied, and has some interesting insights into how spiritual sects tend to evolve based on this insight into the leader's personality. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: He is a brillant business man and real estate magnet from what I can see. But then I can't for the life of me figure out what the Universal consciousness needs with earthly real estate. Neither can I. Do you think that's a relevant issue? What I think really doesn't matter on the universal scale of things. Afterall who am I? Nor do the unassailable fininacial foundations found on a limited physical plane in an infinite universe. Or might it have more to do with wanting the TMO to have an unassailable financial foundation so it's not dependent on economic conditions? Oh, you didn't answer my question: As for the linear time issue of when these rules were written. Who knows,,,who should care, the issue is truth and truth is timeless. IamwhoIam --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: snip I am pretty certain Hindu law itself forbids the charging of money for spiritual teachings. Words like,,,damnable hell comes to mind. And how many centuries ago was this law handed down, do you know? Was it addressing the situation of teachers who headed a mass movement to instruct many millions of people around the world? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
This looks really excellent, thanks for the tip. I am finding quite a bit of stuff on the web from the book. It is facinating stuff. I can't find my article on the Web but it was: The Narcissistic Guru: A Profile of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. Free Inquiry (Spring, 1988) I have a copy somewhere but it would be nice if it was online. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Hi G, I think you are on to something with his contempt for his own followers. Have you seen the comparison of the narcissistic personality disorder and Indian Gurus, mostly focused on Rajaneesh? It was in Free Inquiry in the late 80's. The author applied the DSM III standards to a few gurus and it really explained a lot for me. How they operate so far outside the normal constraints of reciprocal society and can exploit people because they have contempt for them. Those interested in this topic could check out the book, Prophetic Charisma: The Psychology of Revolutionary Religious Personalies by Len Oakes. Started out as a PhD thesis and expanded into a book. Oakes also finds narcissism as the common personality trait in a group of charismatic spiritual leaders that he studied, and has some interesting insights into how spiritual sects tend to evolve based on this insight into the leader's personality. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no worries gerbal,,,I liked the post. Iffen my Hindu readings recall. The guru shall not ask for anything. The student shall offer everything. I think you have hit it exactly where it needs to be hit. Mahesh consistently made a huge thing of HIS devotion to Guru Dev. Finally, the penny dropped: DEVOTION is what gets us where Mahesh is! This, of course, churned out hoards of blissninnies, moodmakers, pretenders to higher states of consciousness. But Mahesh loved it. He subtly encouraged it: The famous like from Mallorca, at the height of rounding when the assembled masses were stoned out of their collective gourd on rounding no one can love you as I can... -- So it was obvious: we have to love him. Give him EVERYTHING. A friend there in Fairfield once told me he had given Mahesh $130Million in stock options, whatever that is. Give, Buy, Borrow, Buy more and more; borrow more and more; get it all, keep trying. -- Talk about our effective modus operandi, eh? Because the Guru loves you and you LOVE the GURU. From the various articles I've read MMY is constantly asking for money,,,from governements, organisations and individuals. Hell the fact that there is a set cost for the meditations techniques proves that. In the Files, TMO, the Odd Side, there's a PDF of the ad he placed in three prominent US newspapers right after 9/11. Tells quite a story: insanity in search of financial support. I am pretty certain Hindu law itself forbids the charging of money for spiritual teachings. Words like,,,damnable hell comes to mind. If you go to www.minet.org/ there's a set of files called Visit to the Shankaracharya. See what the then Shankaracharya, successor to Guru Dev, had to say about Mahesh and charging money. Perhaps MMY played hooky from class the day this philosophy was taught. Heavens, no. He wanted to know everything there was to know. Like the TM Nazi, you can't bend the rules in your favour unless you know what they are. Then you can bend them to glorify yourself and show others what fools they are. The Lawyers will make it Legal. We'll use Science to prove it. Just give them some nice candies and they'll be fine. The Actor can play god better than god. The s--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: I can't help but wonder,,,When does aggressive marketing and cavalier scientific study practises cross the line and become an active attempt to de-fraud and thus become a crimminal activitiy on an organised level'. Oh, Bill, it never crosses the line! Like Mahesh quipped one day in Seelisberg when he was wanting to do something iffy and was told so: The Lawyers will make it legal! You can't defraud the faithful if they are willingly giving you everything they've got. You can't help it if they are so dazed from all the meditation and other crap you've sold them that they can't think straight. I hope you see the point of my sarcasm,it certainly isn't aimed at you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: They don't do this because the purpose of the the ME is political, not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific reasons. Nicely stated. Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs and if you want to join you know what you are getting into. Religions operate this way also and it has a certain integrity. TM's presentation has always had a slippery element. Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his downfall. I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be anything else. I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you stand and I can learn a different view. It has integrity. TM's presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up being a pseudo materialistic spirituality. I think low movement numbers reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is. The pompous and ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity integrity. Rich guys in gold party hats. Visual poetic justice! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any serious consideration. However, Fairfield itself offers an
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 8/14/06 1:17 PM, gerbal88 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still have the photos of me dressed up like the various personages in the holy tradition. Hari, Mahesh's cook, helped me do the sari type drapery. I did it for Susan Shumsky who was going to make a painting of the HT for Mahesh. She was an accomplished watercolourist. Hers is certainly NOT the painting we see behind Mahesh in Vlodrop. Francis Knight did that one. Susan is no longer in the TMO: http://www.divinerevelation.org/ Oh, yes. I know. Susan came here to Toronto once. I attended her really peculiar talk on various realms. Susan is/was, at least, a fantastic watercolourist. But with respect to starting her own religion, well, I thought she should have stuck to her paintings. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I think really doesn't matter on the universal scale of things. Afterall who am I? Nor do the unassailable fininacial foundations found on a limited physical plane in an infinite universe. As for the linear time issue of when these rules were written. Who knows,,,who should care, the issue is truth and truth is timeless. IamwhoIam For some reason, Bill, you reminded me of another wonderful Maheshism. Someone asked him about prayer. He quipped you don't apply to the World Bank for $2.00 Well, here's the little guy, giggling at his own jokes, convincing others that they are going to reach cosmic consciousness and he makes a crack like that. Tells me there's something stinky in Vlodrop. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: He is a brillant business man and real estate magnet from what I can see. But then I can't for the life of me figure out what the Universal consciousness needs with earthly real estate. Neither can I. Do you think that's a relevant issue? What I think really doesn't matter on the universal scale of things. Afterall who am I? Sidestep. You raised the question. Nor do the unassailable fininacial foundations found on a limited physical plane in an infinite universe. Do they matter on the limited physical plane, you know, the one we happen to be living in? Or might it have more to do with wanting the TMO to have an unassailable financial foundation so it's not dependent on economic conditions? Oh, you didn't answer my question: As for the linear time issue of when these rules were written. Who knows,,,who should care, the issue is truth and truth is timeless. Sidestep. How do you know these rules represent Timeless Truth in an infinite universe, as opposed to time-bound rules for a limited physical plane? How come an unassailable financial foundation doesn't matter, but written-down rules are crucially important? With all this sidestepping, I have to assume you took my points but are reluctant to say so. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip For some reason, Bill, you reminded me of another wonderful Maheshism. Someone asked him about prayer. He quipped you don't apply to the World Bank for $2.00 I'm sure that's the complete context of his remark, isn't it, gerbal? Well, here's the little guy, giggling at his own jokes, convincing others that they are going to reach cosmic consciousness and he makes a crack like that. Tells me there's something stinky in Vlodrop. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: Perhaps MMY played hooky from class the day this philosophy was taught. Heavens, no. He wanted to know everything there was to know. Like the TM Nazi, you can't bend the rules in your favour unless you know what they are. Then you can bend them to glorify yourself and show others what fools they are. Gerbal I stand corrected, thank you I think you are right. The Lawyers will make it Legal. We'll use Science to prove it. Just give them some nice candies and they'll be fine. The Actor can play god better than god. Well said,,,very well said. Bill To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: For some reason, Bill, you reminded me of another wonderful Maheshism. Someone asked him about prayer. He quipped you don't apply to the World Bank for $2.00 Well, here's the little guy, giggling at his own jokes, convincing others that they are going to reach cosmic consciousness and he makes a crack like that. Tells me there's something stinky in Vlodrop. He does strike me as a bit of a stinker. Ah more power to him i suppose,,,I should have his money. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: He is a brillant business man and real estate magnet from what I can see. But then I can't for the life of me figure out what the Universal consciousness needs with earthly real estate. Neither can I. Do you think that's a relevant issue? What I think really doesn't matter on the universal scale of things. Afterall who am I? Sidestep. You raised the question. Nor do the unassailable fininacial foundations found on a limited physical plane in an infinite universe. Do they matter on the limited physical plane, you know, the one we happen to be living in? Or might it have more to do with wanting the TMO to have an unassailable financial foundation so it's not dependent on economic conditions? Oh, you didn't answer my question: As for the linear time issue of when these rules were written. Who knows,,,who should care, the issue is truth and truth is timeless. Sidestep. How do you know these rules represent Timeless Truth in an infinite universe, as opposed to time-bound rules for a limited physical plane? How come an unassailable financial foundation doesn't matter, but written-down rules are crucially important? With all this sidestepping, I have to assume you took my points but are reluctant to say so. Assume what you will,,,you will anyway,,, I'll assume. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: Perhaps MMY played hooky from class the day this philosophy was taught. Heavens, no. He wanted to know everything there was to know. Like the TM Nazi, you can't bend the rules in your favour unless you know what they are. Then you can bend them to glorify yourself and show others what fools they are. Gerbal I stand corrected, thank you I think you are right. The Lawyers will make it Legal. We'll use Science to prove it. Just give them some nice candies and they'll be fine. The Actor can play god better than god. Well said,,,very well said. Bill Hey, Bill, nothing to stand corrected about. You were never infected with the dissociation capacities of TM and the other programmes that ate away at your ability to think for yourself, therefore you see much more clearly than many of the hard core defenders of the faith (the stealth religion of Maheshism). As an outsider (a compliment, really), you can see the sham, the ripoff, the out and out theft much more clearly. A California friend is trying to get me to write down all my experiences with the wiley widdle weasel. Maybe I will. He could say the damnest things in response to actually decent questions. I guess it was a kind of we don't go there; it's better to think about my foolishness than respond to your intelligent question. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: He is a brillant business man and real estate magnet from what I can see. But then I can't for the life of me figure out what the Universal consciousness needs with earthly real estate. Neither can I. Do you think that's a relevant issue? What I think really doesn't matter on the universal scale of things. Afterall who am I? Sidestep. You raised the question. Nor do the unassailable fininacial foundations found on a limited physical plane in an infinite universe. Do they matter on the limited physical plane, you know, the one we happen to be living in? Or might it have more to do with wanting the TMO to have an unassailable financial foundation so it's not dependent on economic conditions? Oh, you didn't answer my question: As for the linear time issue of when these rules were written. Who knows,,,who should care, the issue is truth and truth is timeless. Sidestep. How do you know these rules represent Timeless Truth in an infinite universe, as opposed to time-bound rules for a limited physical plane? How come an unassailable financial foundation doesn't matter, but written-down rules are crucially important? With all this sidestepping, I have to assume you took my points but are reluctant to say so. Assume what you will,,,you will anyway,,, I'll assume. Hey, you nailed the TM Nazi. Good on'y. Nothing like seeing old Vlad for what she is, eh? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: For some reason, Bill, you reminded me of another wonderful Maheshism. Someone asked him about prayer. He quipped you don't apply to the World Bank for $2.00 Well, here's the little guy, giggling at his own jokes, convincing others that they are going to reach cosmic consciousness and he makes a crack like that. Tells me there's something stinky in Vlodrop. He does strike me as a bit of a stinker. Ah more power to him i suppose,,,I should have his money. By all accounts, his relatives have his money, not the TMO! What a shock for poor (literally) king Tony when Mahesh kicks the bucket. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Hi G, I think you are on to something with his contempt for his own followers. Have you seen the comparison of the narcissistic personality disorder and Indian Gurus, mostly focused on Rajaneesh? It was in Free Inquiry in the late 80's. The author applied the DSM III standards to a few gurus and it really explained a lot for me. How they operate so far outside the normal constraints of reciprocal society and can exploit people because they have contempt for them. Those interested in this topic could check out the book, Prophetic Charisma: The Psychology of Revolutionary Religious Personalies by Len Oakes. Started out as a PhD thesis and expanded into a book. Oakes also finds narcissism as the common personality trait in a group of charismatic spiritual leaders that he studied, and has some interesting insights into how spiritual sects tend to evolve based on this insight into the leader's personality. Thanks, Mark, I'll look for this book. Sounds spot on. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip No, but Mahesh is incredibly narcissistic: his name on everything, more and more things. The mind does, as he so cunningly informed us, go in the direction of more and more. Check the PDF Stripping the Gurus in the MishMash Effect I posted in the TMO the Odd Side Files. I still have the photos of me dressed up like the various personages in the holy tradition. Hari, Mahesh's cook, helped me do the sari type drapery. I did it for Susan Shumsky who was going to make a painting of the HT for Mahesh. She was an accomplished watercolourist. Hers is certainly NOT the painting we see behind Mahesh in Vlodrop. Your point about the money is well taken. Since he moved into real estate as the main wealth producer it became important to have a core of followers who would do anything for him as his properties appreciated. So pushing them to accept Bob Lapinto, stock broker as DC Raja is part of the testing the limits game. He hasn't found any limits yet has he? I think that's part of the joke: testing the limits, pushing the envelope. How he does it is part of the theroy I am trying to work out The TM Effect. You see smidgens of it in Beacon Light. He must have been very familiar with the dissociative effects of japa because he talked about it at my TTC. He said the mind just gets exhausted and drops into the transcendent. Bullshit. It's what he later discovered he could do with rounding: you experienced so much daydreaming/dissociative separation from yourself (to be redundant about the whole thing) that you'd accept anything as truth, gospel, prime directive if he said it. The Beatle who said ... you're so cosmic certainly was onto something. Just like Mahesh said again and again at my TTC: the actor can play god better than god. -- He could do the cosmic thing like nobody's business and it feathered his nest, ripped off the faithful, sent many into debt out of which they will never get. All for what? Forgive my little joke on thee and go to hell. It sounds as if you were an amazingly naive individual to have completely lost yourself under Maharishi's spell awhile back- dressing up for him? Believing everything he said, hook, line and sinker, apparently applying NO critical thinking whatsoever to that which you were hearing...? I only hope you are past that soon, and can resolve your very bitter aftertaste of such experiences, and begin to live a more balanced life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: snip As for the linear time issue of when these rules were written. Who knows,,,who should care, the issue is truth and truth is timeless. Sidestep. How do you know these rules represent Timeless Truth in an infinite universe, as opposed to time-bound rules for a limited physical plane? How come an unassailable financial foundation doesn't matter, but written-down rules are crucially important? With all this sidestepping, I have to assume you took my points but are reluctant to say so. Assume what you will,,,you will anyway,,, I'll assume. Hey, you nailed the TM Nazi. Good on'y. Nothing like seeing old Vlad for what she is, eh? You see, TMers are infected with the dissociation capacities of TM and the other programs that eat away at their ability to think for themselves. They cannot think logically or question their beliefs. However, when TMers ask TM critics to question their own beliefs and logic, they are being TM Nazis. TM critics do not have to engage in such questioning. IOKYATC (It's OK If You're a TM Critic). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: snip No, but Mahesh is incredibly narcissistic: his name on everything, more and more things. The mind does, as he so cunningly informed us, go in the direction of more and more. Check the PDF Stripping the Gurus in the MishMash Effect I posted in the TMO the Odd Side Files. I still have the photos of me dressed up like the various personages in the holy tradition. Hari, Mahesh's cook, helped me do the sari type drapery. I did it for Susan Shumsky who was going to make a painting of the HT for Mahesh. She was an accomplished watercolourist. Hers is certainly NOT the painting we see behind Mahesh in Vlodrop. Your point about the money is well taken. Since he moved into real estate as the main wealth producer it became important to have a core of followers who would do anything for him as his properties appreciated. So pushing them to accept Bob Lapinto, stock broker as DC Raja is part of the testing the limits game. He hasn't found any limits yet has he? I think that's part of the joke: testing the limits, pushing the envelope. How he does it is part of the theroy I am trying to work out The TM Effect. You see smidgens of it in Beacon Light. He must have been very familiar with the dissociative effects of japa because he talked about it at my TTC. He said the mind just gets exhausted and drops into the transcendent. Bullshit. It's what he later discovered he could do with rounding: you experienced so much daydreaming/dissociative separation from yourself (to be redundant about the whole thing) that you'd accept anything as truth, gospel, prime directive if he said it. The Beatle who said ... you're so cosmic certainly was onto something. Just like Mahesh said again and again at my TTC: the actor can play god better than god. -- He could do the cosmic thing like nobody's business and it feathered his nest, ripped off the faithful, sent many into debt out of which they will never get. All for what? Forgive my little joke on thee and go to hell. It sounds as if you were an amazingly naive individual to have completely lost yourself under Maharishi's spell awhile back- dressing up for him? Believing everything he said, hook, line and sinker, apparently applying NO critical thinking whatsoever to that which you were hearing...? I only hope you are past that soon, and can resolve your very bitter aftertaste of such experiences, and begin to live a more balanced life. Not sure who's naive here, Jim. I did it for Susan. Only she and Hari and I knew about it (until today); Mahesh had no idea; it was Susan's idea. I didn't fall hook line and whatever you said for Mahesh at all. I had had a glimpse of his malicious side on my TTC, so when he invited me to be part of International Staff (I have no idea why), I simply kept track of his little doings, shall we say. But many were so devoted that they would have kiss the Weasel's feet if he'd have let them get close enough. He could manipulate people with consumate skill. One really had to admire the miserable criminal for his skill. If you had what he wanted, he soon got it. I have no idea what he got from me; as anyone can see, I can barely type. Yet, at one point he asked me to do his private letters. I simply found out more about what a fool he took everyone to be. But naive was in abundance. He was surrounded by people who would have eaten his shit given the chance. What a circus. Not happy memories, necessarily, but interesting ones. How'd he turn a respected scientist like Hagelin into what he is today? TM, dissociation, The TM Effect, cooing, like P. G. Wodehouse said, like a dove cooing to another dove from whom it hoped to borrow money. -- of course, the dove had to be so stoned on TM that he's simply do as told, be a good little zombie and so one. tanks for da memoreez To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: Perhaps MMY played hooky from class the day this philosophy was taught. Heavens, no. He wanted to know everything there was to know. Like the TM Nazi, you can't bend the rules in your favour unless you know what they are. Then you can bend them to glorify yourself and show others what fools they are. Gerbal I stand corrected, thank you I think you are right. The Lawyers will make it Legal. We'll use Science to prove it. Just give them some nice candies and they'll be fine. The Actor can play god better than god. Well said,,,very well said. Bill Hey, Bill, nothing to stand corrected about. You were never infected with the dissociation capacities of TM and the other programmes that ate away at your ability to think for yourself, therefore you see much more clearly than many of the hard core defenders of the faith (the stealth religion of Maheshism). As an outsider (a compliment, really), you can see the sham, the ripoff, the out and out theft much more clearly. A California friend is trying to get me to write down all my experiences with the wiley widdle weasel. Maybe I will. He could say the damnest things in response to actually decent questions. I guess it was a kind of we don't go there; it's better to think about my foolishness than respond to your intelligent question. Gerbal I hope you will take your friends advice and not only write down your experiences but share them with the world. Though it is true that I am an outsider the man MMY and the organisation has still managed to impact on my life through the program of the mind of a woman I loved and still do very dearly. Yes she clearly has had problems that have left her susceptable to such organisations and individuals. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I get angry when innocent lambs get led astray by wolves dressed up as shepherds. Feeding off their fears, insecurites and the need to feel loved and accepted. That is exactly how my X GF was when she stumbled across TM with its promotions and claims. I understand too why it is so hard to break away. In the case of my X GF this man and this organisation has given her a sense of belonging to something. Its given her an identity. I'm a TM'r, I'M a Sidhi, these people are my family. All illusions of course but when one is drowning one will grab hold of anything that seems to float. Real family doesn't charge you money to participate in events or teach you how to connect with God, or the universal consciouness or however you freely choose to view the question of WHAT IS. It is an inherent right to be One with ALL,,,One with our creator. Keep well Bill To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: snip The Beatle who said ... you're so cosmic certainly was onto something. Just like Mahesh said again and again at my TTC: the actor can play god better than god. -- He could do the cosmic thing like nobody's business and it feathered his nest, ripped off the faithful, sent many into debt out of which they will never get. All for what? Forgive my little joke on thee and go to hell. It sounds as if you were an amazingly naive individual to have completely lost yourself under Maharishi's spell awhile back- dressing up for him? Believing everything he said, hook, line and sinker, apparently applying NO critical thinking whatsoever to that which you were hearing...? I only hope you are past that soon, and can resolve your very bitter aftertaste of such experiences, and begin to live a more balanced life. Actually, he seems to have gotten considerably worse over the five years he's been hanging out on TM-related forums under various names. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I understand too why it is so hard to break away. In the case of my X GF this man and this organisation has given her a sense of belonging to something. Its given her an identity. I'm a TM'r, I'M a Sidhi, these people are my family. All illusions of course but when one is drowning one will grab hold of anything that seems to float. Real family doesn't charge you money to participate in events or teach you how to connect with God, or the universal consciouness or however you freely choose to view the question of WHAT IS. It is an inherent right to be One with ALL,,,One with our creator. Did MMY tell her he and the TMO were her family, or was that something she dreamed up on her own? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope you will take your friends advice and not only write down your experiences but share them with the world. Though it is true that I am an outsider the man MMY and the organisation has still managed to impact on my life through the program of the mind of a woman I loved and still do very dearly. Yes she clearly has had problems that have left her susceptable to such organisations and individuals. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I get angry when innocent lambs get led astray by wolves dressed up as shepherds. Feeding off their fears, insecurites and the need to feel loved and accepted. That is exactly how my X GF was when she stumbled across TM with its promotions and claims. I understand too why it is so hard to break away. In the case of my X GF this man and this organisation has given her a sense of belonging to something. Its given her an identity. I'm a TM'r, I'M a Sidhi, these people are my family. All illusions of course but when one is drowning one will grab hold of anything that seems to float. Real family doesn't charge you money to participate in events or teach you how to connect with God, or the universal consciouness or however you freely choose to view the question of WHAT IS. It is an inherent right to be One with ALL,,,One with our creator. Keep well Bill I may share my old stories. Some of them are actually fun. Your comments above are sad. You have seen very clearly what Mahesh does to people. It's like getting someone drunk and them rolling them in an alley. Your richer, they're pooer, good for you. It goes beyond criminal, of course; but it works for Mahesh. I think he suffers from two bitterness that go as deep as bitter can go: 1 - he didn't get form Guru Dev what he really wanted 2 - the Beatles dumped him The greatest Guru he could find treated him like the clerk he was. The richest and most famous people on the planet saw him for what he was. Everything else is just Mahesh showing the world what he can do and who he can cheat and who's famous and who's rich and whose the Guru -- 'cept, he isn't the Guru he's the former guru to the Beatles. If history remembers him at all, it will only be in connection with the Beatles. You have done some excellent writing and thinking Bill, your messages are a pleasure to read and a real contribution to Maheshism-insight. I hope you don't mind my throwing in my 2cents worth. G To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William) Simmons unclewas@ wrote: You see, TMers are infected with the dissociation capacities of TM and the other programs that eat away at their ability to think for themselves. They cannot think logically or question their beliefs. However, when TMers ask TM critics to question their own beliefs and logic, they are being TM Nazis. TM critics do not have to engage in such questioning. IOKYATC (It's OK If You're a TM Critic). Your words all of them,,,each and everyone. Perhaps you should re read them now. In particular that first paragraph. I real love it,,, though I would disagree with labelling all TM'rs this way. I'll bet the over whelming majority are beautiful intelligent people. I know its OK to be a TM critic,,,thank you for the validation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: I may share my old stories. Some of them are actually fun. Your comments above are sad. You have seen very clearly what Mahesh does to people. It's like getting someone drunk and them rolling them in an alley. Your richer, they're pooer, good for you. It goes beyond criminal, of course; but it works for Mahesh. I think he suffers from two bitterness that go as deep as bitter can go: 1 - he didn't get form Guru Dev what he really wanted 2 - the Beatles dumped him The greatest Guru he could find treated him like the clerk he was. The richest and most famous people on the planet saw him for what he was. Everything else is just Mahesh showing the world what he can do and who he can cheat and who's famous and who's rich and whose the Guru -- 'cept, he isn't the Guru he's the former guru to the Beatles. If history remembers him at all, it will only be in connection with the Beatles. You have done some excellent writing and thinking Bill, your messages are a pleasure to read and a real contribution to Maheshism- insight. I hope you don't mind my throwing in my 2cents worth. G I have considered it a prilege and a pleasure exchanging thoughts with you G thank you so much for the time you have shared with me and your kind words. Bill To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip 2 - the Beatles dumped him The greatest Guru he could find treated him like the clerk he was. The richest and most famous people on the planet saw him for what he was. Paul McCartney on Maharishi Former Beatle Paul McCartney was the guest on The Charlie Rose Show on PBS [US public broadcasting system] on Monday June 11, 2001. The interview lasted 55 min. Charlie Rose's last question was What do you look forward to at this stage in your life? Paul answered that he looked forward to enjoying life. He shifted immediately into talking about meditation and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, speaking of the value of the balancing and centering effects of Transcendental Meditation --it's always something you can come back to. He spoke of how nice it was being with Maharishi in India in the 60's, saying that Maharishi was the real thing, and that a lot of teachers or gurus of that time were going around in Rolls Royces, with actresses, but that Maharishi had done none of that. He added that before the Beatles left India, Maharishi gave them signed copies of his book [probably The Science of Being and the Art of Living], which Paul indicated was full of wisdom. Paul spoke of his interest in seeing what Maharishi had written Radiate bliss consciousness. ENJOY. Paul spoke of how important it was to enjoy one's life, and of his trip to see Maharishi in Holland about 18 months ago. He said Maharishi is now in his 80's, still working, and very vital and lively. Paul's two children accompanied him. Before going in, they were told that it wasn't possible to know how long the meeting would last--it might be short if Maharishi was tired. The meeting lasted over 4 hours. Paul's daughter asked him if she could shoot some video; Maharishi said of course it was okay. Paul's daughter took the camera, and asked: What do you have to say to the camera, Maharishi? He laughed and said, ENJOY! Paul's comment on this to Charlie Rose was Very consistent after 30 years!. http://www.tm-ireland.org/news.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page / Matched Control Cities
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I cut and pasted this claim from a MUM web page claiming that Where as little as 1% of population is practising TM the trend of rising crime rates is REVERSED. Cities in which one per cent of the population were instructed in the Transcendental Meditation Programme showed decreased crime rate the following year, in contrast to matched control cities. Reference: Journal of Crime and Justice 4: 2545, 1981. Cities in which one per cent of the population were instructed in the Transcendental Meditation Programme showed a trend of decreased crime rate in subsequent years, in contrast to matched control cities. Reference: Journal of Crime and Justice 4: 2545, 1981. 318. DILLBECK, M.C.; LANDRITH III, G.; and ORME-JOHNSON, D.W. The Transcendental Meditation Program and crime rate change in a sample of forty-eight cities. Findings previously published in Journal of Crime and Justice 4: 25-45, 1981. Matched control cities a methodology often cited in ME studies, including above, and DOJ's analysis of FF crime, have always seemed to be a methodologically difficult issue. Matched pairs is an often used resarch method for creating a control group from observed data (that is there was not a pre-selection of a control group prior to the intervention / dose. Though it is error-prone, such errors and biaseas can be reduced using rigourous statistical methods to match multiple criteria that have been shown to effect the response -- the dependent variable. For example, in doing a google search on matched pair cities I found no other studies that used matched pairs for comparision of cities. Understandably so given the huge difficulty in rigorously match for the things I cited in my my earlier post -- flaws in DOJ's FF crime anaylsis: demographic cohorts, temperature, seasonal effects, education levels, % with active religious affiliations, income levels and regional economic trends would be useful if not necessary control / matching factors for a credible analysis. One study that had matched pairs and cities showed up, but was about matching individuals within a city. Their rigor is of notable contrast to DOJ's and the above study. Case patients and controls were similar in terms of age, gender, insurance status, median household income, and proportion with an underlying premorbid neurodevelopmental disease (Table 1 [triangle]). Case patients were more likely to be Asian or of Hispanic ethnicity. The odds of Asian children having been involved as a pedestrian in an accident were 5.8 times as high as those for White children (P = .018), and the odds of Latino children having been involved were 4.3 times as high (P = .038). http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1448312 And they end the paragraph stateing Admitting diagnoses of controls are available on request from the authors. Hardly an offer made by ME researchers that i have ever seen. This is critical in that the method by which, and the factors used to construct the pairs is critical. Many sets of unmatched pairs across ten or more critical variables -- but matching in one, could be constructed. None would be methodologicaly valid. Many small cities, literally 100,000s could be matched for per capital violent crime rates if that, and rough population size small town were used. What criteria was used for developing the presumably much smaller set of matched pairs cities. The huge onus is on the resarchers to demonstrate that some random process was used, and not cherry-picking to secure the results desired/expected by sponsors. The fact that DOJ did not even included a parallel analysis of matched parirs for property crime is highly suspect. Did it not show a useful reduction of crime? Another study that came up was forweather -- again not matching cities. http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch7en/appl7en/ch7a1en.html Although road safety researchers focus primarily on driver behavior, vehicular defects and road design, there is general agreement that environmental factors, such as weather and darkness, also affect accident risk. Research on weather-related hazards, especially precipitation, has made extensive use of matched sampling. This application of matched sampling first requires weather data that can be used to identify precipitation events. Each event is then matched with a suitable control period (i.e. a period of 'nice' weather). For example, a Monday afternoon rain shower lasting from 1 p.m. until 4 p.m. would be paired with the same three hour period on a Monday afternoon just one or two weeks prior to or following the event. The absence of any kind of adverse weather during the control period is an essential feature of this method. Events without a suitable control are deleted from the sample. It states, the main reason for choosing this quasi-experimental design is related to the degree of
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William) Simmons unclewas@ wrote: You see, TMers are infected with the dissociation capacities of TM and the other programs that eat away at their ability to think for themselves. They cannot think logically or question their beliefs. However, when TMers ask TM critics to question their own beliefs and logic, they are being TM Nazis. TM critics do not have to engage in such questioning. IOKYATC (It's OK If You're a TM Critic). Your words all of them,,,each and everyone. Perhaps you should re read them now. In particular that first paragraph. I real love it,,, though I would disagree with labelling all TM'rs this way. You might want to take your disagreement up with gerbal, since I was using his words from a very recent post addressed to you. I'll bet the over whelming majority are beautiful intelligent people. I know its OK to be a TM critic,,,thank you for the validation. Well, of course it is, but that isn't exactly what I said, is it? Are you familiar with the term hypocrisy? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: It sounds as if you were an amazingly naive individual to have completely lost yourself under Maharishi's spell awhile back- dressing up for him? Believing everything he said, hook, line and sinker, apparently applying NO critical thinking whatsoever to that which you were hearing...? I only hope you are past that soon, and can resolve your very bitter aftertaste of such experiences, and begin to live a more balanced life. Not sure who's naive here, Jim. I did it for Susan. Only she and Hari and I knew about it (until today); Mahesh had no idea; it was Susan's idea. I didn't fall hook line and whatever you said for Mahesh at all. I had had a glimpse of his malicious side on my TTC, so when he invited me to be part of International Staff (I have no idea why), I simply kept track of his little doings, shall we say. But many were so devoted that they would have kiss the Weasel's feet if he'd have let them get close enough. He could manipulate people with consumate skill. One really had to admire the miserable criminal for his skill. If you had what he wanted, he soon got it. I have no idea what he got from me; as anyone can see, I can barely type. Yet, at one point he asked me to do his private letters. I simply found out more about what a fool he took everyone to be. But naive was in abundance. He was surrounded by people who would have eaten his shit given the chance. What a circus. Not happy memories, necessarily, but interesting ones. How'd he turn a respected scientist like Hagelin into what he is today? TM, dissociation, The TM Effect, cooing, like P. G. Wodehouse said, like a dove cooing to another dove from whom it hoped to borrow money. -- of course, the dove had to be so stoned on TM that he's simply do as told, be a good little zombie and so one. tanks for da memoreez sounds to me like you are still very much attached to Maharishi, negatively. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: snip The Beatle who said ... you're so cosmic certainly was onto something. Just like Mahesh said again and again at my TTC: the actor can play god better than god. -- He could do the cosmic thing like nobody's business and it feathered his nest, ripped off the faithful, sent many into debt out of which they will never get. All for what? Forgive my little joke on thee and go to hell. It sounds as if you were an amazingly naive individual to have completely lost yourself under Maharishi's spell awhile back- dressing up for him? Believing everything he said, hook, line and sinker, apparently applying NO critical thinking whatsoever to that which you were hearing...? I only hope you are past that soon, and can resolve your very bitter aftertaste of such experiences, and begin to live a more balanced life. Actually, he seems to have gotten considerably worse over the five years he's been hanging out on TM-related forums under various names. As always, his choice... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page / Matched Control Cities
Re: From a MUM web page / Matched Control Cities --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I cut and pasted this claim from a MUM web page claiming that Where as little as 1% of population is practising TM the trend of rising crime rates is REVERSED. Cities in which one per cent of the population were instructed in the Transcendental Meditation Programme showed decreased crime rate the following year, in contrast to matched control cities. Reference: Journal of Crime and Justice 4: 2545, 1981. Cities in which one per cent of the population were instructed in the Transcendental Meditation Programme showed a trend of decreased crime rate in subsequent years, in contrast to matched control cities. Reference: Journal of Crime and Justice 4: 2545, 1981. 318. DILLBECK, M.C.; LANDRITH III, G.; and ORME-JOHNSON, D.W. The Transcendental Meditation Program and crime rate change in a sample of forty-eight cities. Findings previously published in Journal of Crime and Justice 4: 25-45, 1981. Matched control cities a methodology often cited in ME studies, including above, and DOJ's analysis of FF crime, have always seemed to be a methodologically difficult issue. Matched pairs is an often used resarch method for creating a control group from observed data (that is there was not a pre-selection of a control group prior to the intervention / dose. Though it is error-prone, such errors and biaseas can be reduced using rigourous statistical methods to match multiple criteria that have been shown to effect the response -- the dependent variable. For example, in doing a google search on matched pair cities I found no other studies that used matched pairs for comparision of cities. Understandably so given the huge difficulty in rigorously match for the things I cited in my my earlier post -- flaws in DOJ's FF crime anaylsis: demographic cohorts, temperature, seasonal effects, education levels, % with active religious affiliations, income levels and regional economic trends would be useful if not necessary control / matching factors for a credible analysis. One study that had matched pairs and cities showed up, but was about matching individuals within a city. Their rigor is of notable contrast to DOJ's and the above study. Case patients and controls were similar in terms of age, gender, insurance status, median household income, and proportion with an underlying premorbid neurodevelopmental disease (Table 1 [triangle]). Case patients were more likely to be Asian or of Hispanic ethnicity. The odds of Asian children having been involved as a pedestrian in an accident were 5.8 times as high as those for White children (P = .018), and the odds of Latino children having been involved were 4.3 times as high (P = .038). http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1448312 And they end the paragraph stateing Admitting diagnoses of controls are available on request from the authors. Hardly an offer made by ME researchers that i have ever seen. This is critical in that the method by which, and the factors used to construct the pairs is critical. Many sets of unmatched pairs across ten or more critical variables -- but matching in one, could be constructed. None would be methodologicaly valid. Many small cities, literally 100,000s could be matched for per capital violent crime rates if that, and rough population size small town were used. What criteria was used for developing the presumably much smaller set of matched pairs cities. The huge onus is on the resarchers to demonstrate that some random process was used, and not cherry-picking to secure the results desired/expected by sponsors. The fact that DOJ did not even included a parallel analysis of matched parirs for property crime is highly suspect. Did it not show a useful reduction of crime? Another study that came up was forweather -- again not matching cities. http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch7en/appl7en/ch7a1en.html Although road safety researchers focus primarily on driver behavior, vehicular defects and road design, there is general agreement that environmental factors, such as weather and darkness, also affect accident risk. Research on weather-related hazards, especially precipitation, has made extensive use of matched sampling. This application of matched sampling first requires weather data that can be used to identify precipitation events. Each event is then matched with a suitable control period (i.e. a period of 'nice' weather). For example, a Monday afternoon rain shower lasting from 1 p.m. until 4 p.m. would be paired with the same three hour period on a Monday afternoon just one or two weeks prior to or following the event. The absence of any kind of adverse weather during the control period is an essential feature of this method. Events without a suitable control are deleted from the sample. It states, the main reason for choosing this quasi-experimental design is
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How'd he turn a respected scientist like Hagelin into what he is today? TM, dissociation, The TM Effect, cooing, like P. G. Wodehouse An apparent favorite author of Beven's. At last i saw him reading it intently for several hours. Made me laugh. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: How'd he turn a respected scientist like Hagelin into what he is today? TM, dissociation, The TM Effect, cooing, like P. G. Wodehouse An apparent favorite author of Beven's. At last i saw him reading it intently for several hours. Made me laugh. Speaks well for him, actually. (And boy, I hate to say that about Bevan...) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: How'd he turn a respected scientist like Hagelin into what he is today? TM, dissociation, The TM Effect, cooing, like P. G. Wodehouse An apparent favorite author of Beven's. At last i saw him reading it intently for several hours. Made me laugh. Speaks well for him, actually. Thats why i laughed. i wondered if he saw the osequinessence thing (sp) the same way Jeeves did. Or was he looking for tips on how to be even more obsequiess. (And boy, I hate to say that about Bevan...) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: How'd he turn a respected scientist like Hagelin into what he is today? TM, dissociation, The TM Effect, cooing, like P. G. Wodehouse An apparent favorite author of Beven's. At last i saw him reading it intently for several hours. Made me laugh. Speaks well for him, actually. Thats why i laughed. i wondered if he saw the osequinessence thing (sp) the same way Jeeves did. (Obsequiousness??) Interesting thought, Jeeves as a model for service to the master! Whoever suggested reading Jeeves to Bevan had quite a sense of humor, on several levels. Or was he looking for tips on how to be even more obsequiess. Maybe. Or perhaps, from the Wikipedia entry on Jeeves: Jeeves is a member of the Junior Ganymede Club, a club for butlers and valets, in whose club book all members must write down all the wrongdoings of their employers. Thus, butlers and valets can be forewarned before taking up employment with the more infamous employers mentioned in the club book. The section labelled 'WOOSTER B', the largest in the book, contains 18 pages. However, in the book Much Obliged, Jeeves, Jeeves reveals to Bertie that he has destroyed the now nineteen pages in the club book since he anticipates that he will never leave the latter's employment, thus obviating the need to inform prospective valets about his employer's quirks. I've only read a couple of the books. I wonder whether Bevan was reading Jeeves and the Impending Doom or Jeeves and the Love That Purifies... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William) Simmons unclewas@ wrote: You see, TMers are infected with the dissociation capacities of TM and the other programs that eat away at their ability to think for themselves. They cannot think logically or question their beliefs. However, when TMers ask TM critics to question their own beliefs and logic, they are being TM Nazis. TM critics do not have to engage in such questioning. IOKYATC (It's OK If You're a TM Critic). Your words all of them,,,each and everyone. Perhaps you should re read them now. In particular that first paragraph. I real love it,,, though I would disagree with labelling all TM'rs this way. You might want to take your disagreement up with gerbal, since I was using his words from a very recent post addressed to you. I'll bet the over whelming majority are beautiful intelligent people. I know its OK to be a TM critic,,,thank you for the validation. Well, of course it is, but that isn't exactly what I said, is it? Are you familiar with the term hypocrisy? I'm impressed Authfriend First you admit Tm'rs with a dissociation capacity of TM and other programs that eat away at their ability to think for themselves, (see your quote below.) You see, TMers are infected with the dissociation capacities of TM and the other programs that eat away at their ability to think for themselves. They cannot think logically or question their beliefs. Then within post or two you actually prove your point by using another posters words and admitting it,,,again see your quote below. You might want to take your disagreement up with gerbal, since I was using his words from a very recent post addressed to you. Think for your self authfriend,,,use your own words,,,your own mind and your own thoughts, not those of the TMO MMY or other posters and perhaps, if something you say interests me I'll engage you in deeper conversation. Cheers Bill To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons unclewas@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William) Simmons unclewas@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William) Simmons unclewas@ wrote: You see, TMers are infected with the dissociation capacities of TM and the other programs that eat away at their ability to think for themselves. They cannot think logically or question their beliefs. However, when TMers ask TM critics to question their own beliefs and logic, they are being TM Nazis. TM critics do not have to engage in such questioning. IOKYATC (It's OK If You're a TM Critic). Your words all of them,,,each and everyone. Perhaps you should re read them now. In particular that first paragraph. I real love it,,, though I would disagree with labelling all TM'rs this way. You might want to take your disagreement up with gerbal, since I was using his words from a very recent post addressed to you. I'll bet the over whelming majority are beautiful intelligent people. I know its OK to be a TM critic,,,thank you for the validation. Well, of course it is, but that isn't exactly what I said, is it? Are you familiar with the term hypocrisy? I'm impressed Authfriend First you admit Tm'rs with a dissociation capacity of TM and other programs that eat away at their ability to think for themselves, (see your quote below.) You see, TMers are infected with the dissociation capacities of TM and the other programs that eat away at their ability to think for themselves. They cannot think logically or question their beliefs. Then within post or two you actually prove your point by using another posters words and admitting it,,,again see your quote below. You might want to take your disagreement up with gerbal, since I was using his words from a very recent post addressed to you. Think for your self authfriend,,,use your own words,,,your own mind and your own thoughts, not those of the TMO MMY or other posters snicker I don't *think* you're quite as clueless as you seem, but I could be wrong. and perhaps, if something you say interests me I'll engage you in deeper conversation. Cheers Bill To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
