Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..OT: Christchurch, NZ quake, are you FG Kiwis in or around CC ok?

[Dene Maxwell]

Hi Chris,
My step-daughter, step-grandson and son are down in Chch. They are all
well and coping. I was down in CHC for the September 'quake and it
scared the living daylights out of me. We had days to relocate a
signficant amount of our companies infrastructure out of a building in
the CBD that was in danger of collapsing.

I have got the Australasian FG Users web site back up and running
(http://203.97.103.206 ) and am in the process of getting a PC going
that will be able to run FG.

I haven't heard from Andy for a while.

Hope your family are managing OK.

Cheers
Dene

On 02/22/2011 11:18 PM, Chris Wilkinson wrote:
 I'm an ex Christchurch boy - my family are there, and OK, but
 distraught at what they've endured today. Andy Gorman is one list
 members name from Chch I remember - hoping all is well with him and
 others, but may be a day or 2 before we know as much infrastructure is
 damaged.

 Regards,

 Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE.

 *From:* Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net
 *To:* FlightGear developers discussions
 flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 *Sent:* Tue, 22 February, 2011 7:36:48 PM
 *Subject:* [Flightgear-devel] ..OT: Christchurch, NZ quake, are you FG
 Kiwis in or around CC ok?

 Hi,

 ..OT: Christchurch, NZ quake, are you FG Kiwis in or around CC ok?
 James Sleeman, Innis, Syd, who else?
 News media reports telecom problems too, advicing sms and email, and
 discouraging phone calls, even the police can't handle their part of
 the phone call stampede.

 -- 
 ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
 ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
   Scenarios always come in sets of three:
   best case, worst case, and just in case.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Memory leak

[dene maxwell]

From: Torsten Dreyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Memory leak
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:58:31 +0200

If this is of any help - starting with the ufo on the ground and sitting 
there
(no movement, controls untouched) the memory grows at a rate of approx.
50kB-100kB per second. Monitored for about a minute.
.fgfsrc is blank and all rendering options unchecked, except display
framerate
This is on a linux-box monitored with ksysguard.

Since the ufo has no panel at all, this is either another leak or the 
problem
is not bound to the 2d panel?

Torsten

I noticed the same on 098a/win me then I looked at the xml files... the 
ufo-set.xml file has panel visibilty set to false and there in is no panel 
specified either in the ufo-set.xml or /model/ufo.xml does this mean 
that with the ufo, a 2-d panel is loaded but not shown till shftp toggles 
it on because it is certainly a 2-d panel that shows when shiftp is 
pressed

The ufo-set files lists the author as ET... is this a case of ... ET call 
Torsten ? ;-)

:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] 2D Panel memory leak

[dene maxwell]

From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] 2D Panel memory leak
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:54:54 +0200

* Lee Elliott -- Wednesday 21 June 2006 21:39:
  I haven't tried using other fonts yet either, to establish if
  it's just with the LED font or with any font.

Fixed. Sorry too all.  :-)

m.

Hi Melchior,
I answered a previous post before before reading yours could this 
problem have existed for a while (previous versions)?

:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Memory leak

[dene maxwell]

Hi,
I have always noticed this, have commented on it over the last 18 months or 
so since I first started with FG after about 2.5 hours fps dropped to 
1fps and aircraft eventually crashed...
I first noticed this on the PA28-161 as it was my aircraft of choice then 
latterly on the A10-2D...

I recently did a long haul using way points from NZWN-NZAA via NZPP, NZPM, 
NZNP, NZHN and the C172 held up for 3.5 hours...same problem ...low FPS and 
loss of control even on AP(waypoints)...

...hope this is helpful and not miss-leading.
:-D ene


From: Vivian Meazza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: 'FlightGear developers discussions' 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Memory leak
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:19:03 +0100


Dave Perry

  I have had  lock-ups on longer X-C flights with the pa24-250 recently
  that could be from a memory leak.  So I used the system monitor to check
  on VM growth.  The only 2D pannel used in the pa24-250 is the radio
  stack.  So I tried commenting out various components of the radio stack
  in the file radio-panel.xml.  If I comment all the radio stack in this
  file, the memory leak is gone.  I did not try all combinations, but the
  leak rate seems to get greater the more radios are not commented out.
 
  I do not remeber this occurring even on very long X-C flights when I
  first submitted the pa24-250.
 
  System info
  FC4 Linux updated with yum update last Saturday
  Plib, SimGear, fgfs source, and base all updated from CVS on Saturday
  also.
  AMD Athlon XP 3200+ with 512 MB RAM
  Nvidia GeForce 7800 GS OC with 256MB GDDR3
 

Hmm - it's beginning to look as if this problem is long-standing. It only
seems to involve 2d panels: those ac with pure 3d panels are unaffected.
Some 3d panels have 2d elements - these are also affected.

Linux and Windows both seem to be affected, but Melchior cannot reproduce
the memory leak on his set-up.

A date when you first noticed this effect would perhaps help in tracking it
down.

Vivian





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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Memory leak

[dene maxwell]

It was suggested on IRC that I might like to do memory leak tests on 
098a/Win Meresults;

   *Start***Finish*
Plane:   Time:Mem:   Time:  Mem:
PA28-161 12:34NZST 548.4M13:03  558.4M
Hunter 13:04NZST 543.4M13:35  552.3M
172-3d 13:45NZST 542.4M14:12  533.7M

hope these figures are useful to someone.

:-D ene

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[Flightgear-devel] AI Flightplan Animations

[dene maxwell]

Hi
I'm writing xml animation files for AI aircraft. I have the propeller 
animation tied into the air-speed as an AI aircraft doesn't have an engine 
speed.

I tied the flap and gear animations into;

/ai/models/aircraft/surface-positions/flap-pos-norm

and

/ai/models/aircraft/controls/gear/gear-down

respectively

I can test the flap animation using the internal property browser and it 
works.
The gear-down property seems to be read only though (when I try to change it 
from true to false it reverts back to true).

The other issue is that neither of these properties seem to be tied into the 
flightplan gear-down and flaps-down properties.

The on-ground flightplan property doesn't seem to do anything in the 
property tree.

I'm using 098a.

Can some-one please point me in the direction of what I'm doing wrong?

I would post the xml samples but they don't post too well either in mail or 
on a web-site.

Regards
Dene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?

[dene maxwell]

Hi
Having edited airports there are a few things that tools like TaxiDraw 
provide that are invaluable;


1) super-imposing the airport layout on top of  a scaled background image to 
allow placement of taxiways etc in proportion to the RL layout.

2) providing lat/long readout for any point on the layout.
3) showing centre lines for runways/taxiways.
4) catering for such things as edge lighting and centre line lighting etc.
5) exporting the beacon information to stg files

not to mention; layering info, (even biezer curves will need layering at the 
interfaces), surface types etc.


If a program like Inkscape can duplicate this and is multiplatform then by 
all means.


As you might have gathered, I have no experience with Inkscape and am 
looking for comments and affirmations rather than flame-wars...


I believe a more generic and structured approach to the apt format is 
desirable as long as there isn't a re-adjustment period that means we are 
left devoid of current capabilities.


I also see merit in maintaining a commonality between x-plane ad fgfs as it 
increases the resources available for further development albeit on a 
cooperative basis.


We also need to keep in mind that a number of people have devoted a large 
amount of time and effort to interfacing with the apt.dat format, I feel 
their voices should be most prominent when any change like this is 
considered.


:-D ene



From: Thomas Förster [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 09:50:12 +0200

Am Montag 12 Juni 2006 01:10 schrieb Ampere K. Hardraade:
 On Saturday 10 June 2006 13:15, Tony Pelton wrote:
  heck, even taking the records, and stuffing those records, as they are
  now, into XML would be a start.

 Already in XML format...

 http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/export_cyyz.svg
 http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/export_eddf.svg
 http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/export_eddh.svg
 http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/export_etou.svg
 http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/export_ksfo.svg

Which brings me to an idea. What if the airport format is enriched svg. 
That
way the physical airport layout is in svg and might be viewed with a 
standard
svg viever/editor. Converting electronic airport charts to svg works 
already.
The logical layout (taxiway names, aprons, tower locations etc.) is then 
put

on top of that (i.e. extra tags and attributes).

Don't know wether svg editors will preserve unknown tags and attributes. If
they do, the physical airport layout can then be changed with a standard 
svg

drawing program (e.g. inkscape).

Thomas


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?

[dene maxwell]

Hi

Hallo Thomas !

Thomas Förster wrote:

 Which brings me to an idea. What if the airport format is enriched svg. 
That
 way the physical airport layout is in svg and might be viewed with a 
standard
 svg viever/editor. Converting electronic airport charts to svg works 
already.
 The logical layout (taxiway names, aprons, tower locations etc.) is then 
put

 on top of that (i.e. extra tags and attributes).

This idea actually _does_ have appeal - hey, I'm right now busy with
creating an SVG drawing - but I see one drawback here:
Airport-creators or -maintainers are not _forced_ to think of the
logical layout. Let's assume some flight simulation does not honour the
logical layout at all and we'll experience people submitting airports
without _any_ logic, not even the direction of the taxiway centerline,
just consisting of the outlines of taxiways and runways.

In order to do it 'right' (TM, yes, I know  ;-)  I'd prefer to have an
airport description language that consists of nothing but the logical
layout at least for those objects, that relate to the core airport
operations (runway, taxiway, apron, tower location), forcing the user
to create a logical sense behind _every_ object. Yes, I feel that this
path might be a bit steep in the beginning but I believe it's the only
one that saves us from major trouble once we expect every airfield to
contain a certain amount of logic and realizing that noting's there.
Opinions ?

I must admit that from reading some explanations on the 8.50 format I
still didn't understand which route this new format is heading for - I
simply failed to find the logic in the description 

Regards,
Martin.
--
Agreed if I understand you placing blobs on a layout just to get 
the outline right is not productive in the long run it might solve an 
immediate problem but doesn't contribute to the maintenance of that data 
hence curves are going to be necessary to allows whatever tools to enforce 
the certain amount of logic ideal


...as mentioned I believe there will be a degree of resistance if it is 
perceived that current tools (that people are familiar with) won't be 
valid... I don't believe this is a reason not to pursue the certain 
amount of logic ideal,  but a reason to mitigate a migration path that 
everyone involved, understands.


:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?

[dene maxwell]

Hi
  This idea actually _does_ have appeal - hey, I'm right now busy with
  creating an SVG drawing - but I see one drawback here:
  Airport-creators or -maintainers are not _forced_ to think of the
  logical layout. Let's assume some flight simulation does not honour the
  logical layout at all and we'll experience people submitting airports
  without _any_ logic, not even the direction of the taxiway centerline,
  just consisting of the outlines of taxiways and runways.

Better have just the outlines than having nothing at all. People more
experienced in airport layout could take over and add the missing parts.
Welcome to the power of open source. I for myself would volunteer for this
since I don't like redrawing runway borders from an aerial. Its all about
collaboration :-)

it's not just layout that is important, there have been instances where 
people have wanted uni-directional runways... this could just as equally 
apply to taxiways (I haven't come across any examples of this YET!)... 
defining taxi-ways as unirdirection or bidirectional could cater for 
specifically styled runway signs (if indeed this was the case in RL)... 
taking it a step further... apron markings could be layered over this. With 
the proprietry APT format this would be hard to implement...a more generic 
tree structure would be more extensible (I think this has been mentioned 
before as an advantage)

  In order to do it 'right' (TM, yes, I know  ;-)  I'd prefer to have an
  airport description language that consists of nothing but the logical
  layout at least for those objects, that relate to the core airport
  operations (runway, taxiway, apron, tower location), forcing the user
  to create a logical sense behind _every_ object.

This is exactly what I have in mind. It just contains 'embedded' svg
descriptions of the physical layout of the parts that make up the logical
model. Something like this

fg:runway id=03L 
   fg:runwaypart material=concrete
 svg:polygon 
   /fg:runwaypart
   fg:runwaypart material=asphalt
 svg:polygon ...
   /fg:runwaypart
/fg:runway

(NOTE I dont know svg syntax :-))

Of course this also means that only an svg editor is not enough to fully
specify an airport.


Just as a text editor will edit a dat file... TaxiDraw does a much better 
job because it enforces a set of rules.

  Yes, I feel that this
  path might be a bit steep in the beginning but I believe it's the only
  one that saves us from major trouble once we expect every airfield to
  contain a certain amount of logic and realizing that noting's there.
  Opinions ?

I think this is a quality control issue. So it should be solved in the 
process
rather than in the data format.


Agreed, the tool enforces the quality control and the data format stores 
that information such that the result of the rules is also stored for other 
editing sessions.

  I must admit that from reading some explanations on the 8.50 format I
  still didn't understand which route this new format is heading for - I
  simply failed to find the logic in the description 

ASFIU they only want to provide the high-level description and leave
everything else to the sim. That makes it easy for airport modellers since
there are less options but I can see issues arising regarding flexibility.
Example case: I've seen taxi lights standing besides the asphalt and on the
other hand others buried within the taxiway concrete. Just specifying that
there is taxiway lighting is not enough in my opinion.

Thomas

:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?

[dene maxwell]

Hi Ralf


Hi,

dene maxwell wrote:
 it's not just layout that is important, there have been instances where
 people have wanted uni-directional runways... this could just as equally
 apply to taxiways (I haven't come across any examples of this YET!)...
 defining taxi-ways as unirdirection or bidirectional could cater for
 specifically styled runway signs (if indeed this was the case in RL)...
 taking it a step further... apron markings could be layered over this. 
With
 the proprietry APT format this would be hard to implement...a more 
generic
 tree structure would be more extensible (I think this has been 
mentioned

 before as an advantage)

As it seems, the X-Plane authors are not keen to go away from the
apt.dat format, so if FlightGear would go away from bidirectional
compatibility with apt.dat, this would result in a clear split of the
databases and in ceasing the up to now fruitful exchange of data between
FlightGear and X-Plane. Keep this in mind when assessing the advantages
of a new, totally different format.

I have made this point before, IMHO it is preferrable that we both (FG  
Xplane) stay with the same format if only for the reason that the more 
people that are working on getting airport layouts correct the better both 
the end results are going to be no matter how we process the data in each 
application. My flights (pardon the pun) of fancy are only a way of sharing 
some ideas on where the furture will lead us. They are certainly not a 
proposal we go our(FGFS) own way independantly.


The more discussion and more ideas that are proposed then any final choice 
can only be more informed (even the most ridiculous idea might have some 
merit even if to discount it).




Thomas Förster wrote:
Example case: I've seen taxi lights standing besides the asphalt and on 
the
other hand others buried within the taxiway concrete. Just specifying 
that

there is taxiway lighting is not enough in my opinion.

...and that's why that is to change in the new apt.dat-format. They have
both polygonal pavement sections, but also polyline sections, by which
rows of lights, markings, etc., can be placed accurately.

Which brings us to the point where we have to draw our borderlights,
etc., ourselves _in addition_ to the pavement, where in the past we
simply placed a rectangle and activated lighting.

However, given proper tools - which is what TaxiDraw is going for - we
can make the tool support the user, by, e.g., automatically placing
lines of borderlights around any new pavement polygon and allow the user
to edit them or remove them as they wish.

as mentioned, a certain amount of logic can be enforced at a data 
structure level or at a tool level, I believe it should be done at the tool 
level at this stage of the discussion as it leaves the data structure more 
open and able to cater for unforseen developments. Whether or not the APT 
data format is most suitable now is largely irrelevant...without a universal 
agreement that it should be discarded and a clean start should be made it is 
the legacy format and the 850 proposal is a definite step forward... who 
knows what ingenious changes are possible in the apt format to accomodate 
some of the flights of fancy that have been expressed.



Cheers,
Ralf




regards
:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] UAV Heli and Matlab

[dene maxwell]

dene maxwell wrote:

  Rule #5 Until you can hover indefinitely over the same point on the 
ground
  and and climb and descend without moving from that point, don't try 
anything
  fancier...ie practice hovering.
  Rule #6 When you can hover, practice pulling up from level flight to a
  stationary hover.

I don't agree. It's still much fun slowly flying around known terrain
in the helicopter even if you're not a skilled helicopter pilot - you
just won't manage to land the beast without crashing  :-)

Martin.
--

I agree  and that's why I still fly helicopters even though I can't even 
follow Rule #5. That's the nice thing about a Sim... crashes don't hurt :-)

:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?

[dene maxwell]

Hi Ampere,

I really don't want to pursue an arguement about right and wrong... the 
approaches are different and each has it's merits  .. I would have really 
liked to have your tools available to me when I started converting the 
current FAA diagram

On Monday 12 June 2006 19:47, dene maxwell wrote:
  Unfortunately the data kept by FAA/CAA or what ever the local
  administration is called is often out-of-date or just plain wrong.
  Experience of the last month has taught me that. Poring over aerial 
photos
  and current third-party documentation has shown significant 
discrepencies.
Keep in mind that those FAA/CAA diagrams are being used in real aviation 
right
now, not the aerial photos or third-party documentation.  While I would not
rule out that that those airport diagrams may contain errors, I am more
certain that the aerial photos and third-party documentation you mentioned
are the ones that are wrong.

refer;

http://airventure2006.blogspot.com/2006/06/kosh-apt-810-layout.html

this is the data out of the apt-810 file represented in TaxiDraw and also 
appears in FGFS Scenery 09.10


http://airventure2006.blogspot.com/2006/06/faa-representation-of-kosh.html

this is the current FAA representation of KOSH, note is does have taxiway 
Alpha and taxiway Papa is connected to the end of rwy22.

http://airventure2006.blogspot.com/2006/06/aerial-photo-photo-only-2-years-old.html

this is a 2-year old aerial photo notice the additional grass taxiways 
to the right and left of runway 36/18, the surarface types on runways 22  
31

I have heaps more evidence of the various anomalies between the various 
documention sources and RL

but I don't want to prove you wrong ... can we agree that TaxiDraw 
provides certain functionality at the moment that works with the current 
format of apt.dat... any replacement should provide the  same functionality 
OR a mechanism whereby that functionality is not needed?

is there away to convert svg format to btg to avoid TerrorGear?


  IIRC the French
  CAA diagrams don't even have lat/long references apart from the various
  navaid locations.
Yes they do.

Not Toulouse
http://airventure2006.blogspot.com/2006/06/toulouse-aip.html


Ampere



Mate, I am really interested in the work you're doing and see real benefit 
it in as I said before right/wrong is not on my agenda ...how do we 
achieve the best given a starting point and a goal is.

best regards
:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?

[dene maxwell]

What was ths source URL for that ..?

...it certainly provides that data needed

I would like to add it to my AIP database


Cheers
:-D ene

From: Ampere K. Hardraade [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 00:37:50 -0400

On Tuesday 13 June 2006 00:32, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote:
 IIRC the French
 CAA diagrams don't even have lat/long references apart from the
 various navaid locations.
   
   Yes they do.
  
   Not Toulouse
   http://airventure2006.blogspot.com/2006/06/toulouse-aip.html
 
  You are on the wrong page! :P
 
  Ampere

Haha, wrong document to begin with.

Page 3, in http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/Toulouse.pdf

Ampere


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] UAV Heli and Matlab

[dene maxwell]

Hi

Hello,

After lots of exams, and almost infinite tasks at university, and before
some more to come, I'd like to ask for a few things I'd like to do in the
quiet sunny summer days.

I'd like to mix FlightGear with Matlab through the aerospace toolbox.
Weeks ago I asked for the 0.9.8a versions, which was kindly linked so I
could download, but I could work on it, and I have some questions.

So, Question #1: To practice with the helicopter, what key do I have to
press to activate the engine? I've tried anything I found on the help
without success.

What helicopter are you using?

my experience with a helicopter (Bo105

Rule #1 Turn autocoordination OFF
Rule #2 see rule #1 ;-)
Rule #3 The throttle works reverse to fixed wing aircraft.
Rule #4 Using the keyboard rudder (tail rotor) control is almost impossible.
Rule #5 Until you can hover indefinitely over the same point on the ground 
and and climb and descend without moving from that point, don't try anything 
fancier...ie practice hovering.
Rule #6 When you can hover, practice pulling up from level flight to a 
stationary hover.
Rule #7 When you can hover and pull up to a hover with 100% success try 
other things.


Question #2: How can I setup the joystick? I'd like to exchange some of the
axis function.

See above rules .. they may help

Question #3: Does anybody have a 3D model for a R/C-like helicopter?
Something like a 1 meter thing.
Question #4: Has anybody tried the Matlab-FlightGear connection without
perishing on the try? If so, is there any documentation?

Your 'question #1' might be: Is that fool a newbee?
My answer: absolutely.

Thanks for your help. Any advice will be gratefully accepted.

David


:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?

[dene maxwell]

Valid point Erik, I have run into a situation where a KOSH runway is 1/2 
asphalt and 1/2 concrete...taking this to the nth degree a single runway 
might need to be divided into n segments each of different function...as you 
say  an asphalt runway with two concrete touchdown zones or the KOSH 
situation above.

What can be done to accomodate these situations and is it realistic to hope 
to get them into the next update I'm unsure as to the status of the 
apt850 doc, is it a proposal for comment or a statement of what the next 
version WILL be?

regards
:-D ene


From: Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:16:25 +0200


Is there anybody on this list who is (or will be) following this
discussion? There is one thing I would like to see added to this;

It becomes pretty common for (former) Military airports over here to
have an asphalt runway with two concrete touchdown zones giving best of
both worlds, low friction and high (touch down) strength.

I don't think this can be specified in the new format.

Erik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?

[dene maxwell]

Hi Arnt,

If you mean time and date headers that correspond to Real-Time for project 
teams developing Live like CD's they may cause problems..you and I and the 
rest of the project team want KOSH to be in the AirVenture configuration at 
the moment... but now doesn't fall within the time/date header 
parameters... would a Special Events check list be more flexible?

Similair to selecting a starup RWY, you select a/or series of Special 
Event configurations...
This could cater for AirVenture, WarBirds over Wanaka, Farnham or any other 
event that causes changes to an airport.

I know from my experience with FGTools, FGFS and TaxiDraw that parsing the 
APT file is not trivial ...the downside is of course the need for a 
SpecialAPT.DAT to cater for this and the inherent support and maintenance 
needed.

Mind you your say does mean that if I fly over the area( quite randomly) and 
it happens to fall within the 24 July-30 July timeframe the AI scenarios may 
also be active and the sky would be filled with planes... ;-)

Cheers
:-D ene
  not sure if folks on this list care, or are aware ... but Ben Supnik
  has made a couple of RFC type posts to one of the x-plane lists,
  talking about a new design for the airport data coming from Robin
  Peel.
 
  This is apparently the spec that is emerging from those conversations.
 
  http://www.x-plane.org/home/robinp/Apt850.htm

..this proposal may improve things, but will not work  for KOSH:
http://80.239.32.252/notams/notam06.pdf   and
http://airventure.org/atc/

..the above changes can be done in several ways, but all of these ways
require a time or date header, and headers for _temporary_ or
_recurring_ changes to the airport.
E.G. KOSH effectively ceases to exist during AirVenture, and
KOSH-SOUTH and KOSH-NORTH or somesuch replaces it.

..given timed headers, Robin's apt850 could last 5 years with
no change for KOSH, the AirVenture dates has been set for the
next 5 years.

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
   Scenarios always come in sets of three:
   best case, worst case, and just in case.



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FGLive, etc (was configurable HUD colors)

[dene maxwell]

Not too late to join our happy band, plenty of work for all ;-D
:-D ene



From: Pigeon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FGLive, etc (was configurable HUD colors)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:02:01 +1000

 ..I have done a few custom Knoppix and Damnsmalllinux live cd's and
 Pigeon initially disagreed to make one for AirVenture, so I  decided to
 do it myself, even if he beats me to it again.  ;o)  This far we 4
 people contributing on my KOSH cd.

Whoops, sorry, did I? I must have missed/misunderstood you at some
point. I didn't realized I have rejected such a request. I think I did
disagree on what you've suggested in terms of approach of doing FGLive
(and your GRUB thing :). Perhaps there was a time that I didn't know
what AirVenture is :(

(Re-reading your e-mail now, and yes, I didn't go to your link to
airventure.org :( )

My apologies.

Pigeon.



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?

[dene maxwell]

Hi Tony,

From my limited knowledge of how these are used (within the FG environment) 
they appear to be a positive evolutionary step. I like the idea of curves 
being corporated. Until tools like TaxiDraw integrate these changes there 
will be a gap but backward compatibiltiy appears catered for, so great. 
TerraGear will need to incorporate these changes for the full effect to be 
felt in the resulting btg files for FGFS.


I like the concept of these changes, and look forward to these changes being 
rippled through to TaxiDraw and TerraGear.


Thanks for the heads up
:-D ene



From: Tony Pelton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: [Flightgear-devel] apt.dat changes ?
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 22:35:02 -0400

not sure if folks on this list care, or are aware ... but Ben Supnik
has made a couple of RFC type posts to one of the x-plane lists,
talking about a new design for the airport data coming from Robin
Peel.

This is apparently the spec that is emerging from those conversations.

http://www.x-plane.org/home/robinp/Apt850.htm

fwiw.

Tony

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XData 0.1 for X-SA is out !
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[Flightgear-devel] AI FlightPlans

[dene maxwell]

Hi all,

Problem: I have about 7 AI aircraft arriving at an airport at staggered
times... I want them to taxi off the runway - park and hold until all
aircraft haved handed and taxi-ed-. landing, taxi-ing, parking I think I
have sorted... any suggestions on how to make them hold?

Previous attempts using very short waypoints and very low velocities cause
the planes to yaw backwards and forwards very violently

...open to suggestions

developing and testing on 098a but will eventually be run on latest and
greatest FG.

Regards
:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lee Elliot-ComperSwift

[dene maxwell]

Hi Dene,

Just as well I said I would check :)

Here are the _correct_ figures for the Comper Swift fitted with
the Pobjoy R seven cylinder radial engine (as modelled)

Cruise:  120 mph (104.2 kt)
Max:  140 mph (121.6 kt)
Landing/Stall 40 mph (34 kt)

Not sure exactly what is meant by the Landing/Stall speed :s but
in a flight report from 1931 the pilot said The elevators give
a much better impression of effectiveness down to about 45 mph -
which was the slowest to which I dared stall - here he was
comparing a model where the cut-out in the wing trailing edge
for the cockpit had been smoothed with an earlier model where it
was more angular.

The same pilot went on to say that he felt happiest landing at 55
mph (47.8 kt)

HTH

LeeE


Thanks Lee thats all I need for a realistic AI Scenario... I don't think 
anyone will complain if the sim lands at 45-50 knots

... I suspect the Landing/stall figure is in fact *stall in landing 
configuration* (ie flaps) this seems to be a very popular figure to provide 
in performance data.

Thanks again
:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI FlightPlans

[dene maxwell]

Thank you Durk that would be much appreciated I haven't really 
investigated the traffic manager system so know very little about(read 
nothing) about it. I have plenty left to do with regard way points and xml 
wrappers for the models, plus scenery work... great opportunity to learn 
more about FGFS... in case you hadn't guessed this is for the 
FGLive-KOSH-AirVenture CD that Arnt is coordinating.

Look forward to hearing from you when you get home...have a safe trip.
:-D ene


From: Durk Talsma [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI FlightPlans
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 06:36:43 -0400

Hi Dene,

It sounds like this would be a job for the traffic manager system, which
has more or less all the capabilities you describe (arrival, taxiway
following, wait until next flight, etc etc). I'll put some documentation
regarding the design of trafficmanager scripts once I'm back home (in
about a week or two).

Cheers,
Durk

dene maxwell wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  Problem: I have about 7 AI aircraft arriving at an airport at staggered
  times... I want them to taxi off the runway - park and hold until all
  aircraft haved handed and taxi-ed-. landing, taxi-ing, parking I 
think I
  have sorted... any suggestions on how to make them hold?
 
  Previous attempts using very short waypoints and very low velocities 
cause
  the planes to yaw backwards and forwards very violently
 
  ...open to suggestions
 
  developing and testing on 098a but will eventually be run on latest and
  greatest FG.
 
  Regards
  :-D ene
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Harrier checkin

[dene maxwell]

My penny's worth...I agree... no experience IRL ...it's one of the first 
things I do in FG is engage the P-brake while I set up the radio/AP ...I'm 
working through my hanger to set this as default for all AC.
:-D ene

From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Harrier checkin
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 09:31:16 + (UTC)

AJ MacLeod wrote:

  I completely fail to see how anyone benefits from a mad scramble for 
control
  of the aircraft on FG startup... particularly since on the carrier it's 
often
  over the side by then.  This aircraft has a parking brake IRL unless I'm 
very
  much mistaken - surely it's sensible to use it here?  How many pilots 
IRL
  have to jump into the cockpit of a moving aircraft and immediately hunt
  around for the brakes to avoid a crash?

   :-))
I guess in real life the aircraft is supposed to be fixed at their
location using chocks. As you are very much by yourself because
FlightGear doesn't provide a ground crew that could remove the chocks
for you I think the parking brake is a pretty good choice for a
work-alike.

Cheers,
   Martin.
--
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Harrier checkin

[dene maxwell]

True...point taken
:-D ene


From: Josh Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Harrier checkin
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 08:51:00 -0400

dene maxwell wrote:
 My penny's worth...I agree... no experience IRL ...it's one of the first
 things I do in FG is engage the P-brake while I set up the radio/AP 
...I'm

 working through my hanger to set this as default for all AC.
 :-D ene


My point though, is that you only have to change one file -
preferences.xml. If this is such a big deal for everyone, then it should
be changed in CVS as well. Having planes override people's personal
preferences is *not* the answer.

Brake settings in a flight *simulator* are a personal preference, not
part of an aircraft. They belong in the preferences file, not the
aircraft file.

Not everyone is going to agree on whether brakes should be applied at
startup. If you put this in the AC file then you are guaranteed to annoy
someone no matter what setting you choose. If you leave it for
preferences.xml and educate people how to use their preferences file
(which is really not that hard) then everyone can be satisfied.

Josh


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Harrier checkin

[dene maxwell]

I hace always liked this idea, I know that Start-Up positions can be 
specified in TaxiDraw and are used in X-Plane (refer 
http://x-plane.org/home/robinp/apt840.htm ).

It would be an added touch of realisism IMHO

:-D ene


From: Detlef Faber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Harrier checkin
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 20:25:03 +0200

Am Montag, den 05.06.2006, 14:56 +0100 schrieb AJ MacLeod:
  On Monday 05 June 2006 13:43, Josh Babcock wrote:
   How many pilots still have their parking brakes set at the runway
   threshold?
 
  These same pilots will (hopefully :-) have been in control of the plane 
for a
  good while leading up to this point.
 
  In FG, we're suddenly dumped there, with the plane running and, in many 
cases,
  simply out of control, veering off in some unpredictable direction.
 
... just an idea, why not provide a starting point general aviation
parking or hangar? There we can put the plane with engine off and
parking brakes on. One can practice taxiing and choose a runway by wind
direction.

Greetings

Detlef

http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear


  I'm not claiming having the parking brake set at this point is the 
height of
  realism, just that it's slightly less bad than the alternative.  I've 
still
  not heard a convincing reason why FG starting up with out of control 
runaway
  aircraft is a good idea...
 
  AJ
 
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Startup Position ..was ..Harrier checkin

[dene maxwell]

Is this specified on a per airport basis ie if I park up at NZWN then 
next-time start at NZPP where will I be?

And if you leave the lights on does the battery go flat? ;-)

:-D ene

From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Harrier checkin
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 22:44:18 +0200

* dene maxwell -- Monday 05 June 2006 22:32:
  I hace always liked this idea, I know that Start-Up positions can be
  specified in TaxiDraw and [...]
  It would be an added touch of realisism IMHO

I use ac_state.nas[1], which puts the aircraft where you left it last
time. This is even more realistic.  :-)

m.


[1] http://members.aon.at/mfranz/flightgear/ac_state.nas


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Lee Elliot-ComperSwift

[dene maxwell]

On Sunday 04 June 2006 09:46, dene maxwell wrote:
  Hi Lee,
  I have some questions regarding the ComperSwift;
 
  I would like to use it in the FGLive-KOSH CD being put
  together by Arnt... i know under GPL I don't have to ask for
  permission but would like your comment... particularly as I'm
  missing one important figure - cruise speed
 
  :-)...  I don't really have time to download/install and get
  : familiar with
 
  the aircraft as it will be used in an AI scenario and just
  need to know the basic flight parameters/performance
  figures
 
  I have the J3, 172P  C28-161 as low speed(90knt
  comfortable)aircraft for the standard NOTAM approaches and
  there  are heaps of 140knt+ aircraft to choose from (AIR New
  Zealand 737 ;-)...but need 5 low speed civilian aircraft.
 
  The Rascal110 also looks a good candidate to fill the fifth
  spot :...similar figures would be required for that too...
 
  if you would prefer to take this off list please feel free to
  mail be direct..
 
  TIA
 
  :-D ene

Hi Dene,

I'll check the figures for you in the next couple of days but
iirc cruise speed was 100 mph @ 3000 (eng) rpm, max speed 130
mph @ 3300 (eng) rpm - eng rpm quoted because the prop was
geared.

Actually, I've flown it quite recently, to do a bit of virtual
geology over the Channelled Scab Lands in Washington state
(worth a look in FG) and it seems to be flying pretty close to
the right numbers, engine included.  Not so sure about the
handling though - it should be tail-heavy and inclined to loop
if you let go of the stick, which doesn't happen in FG.

Like I said though, I'll check the numbers and get back to you in
the next few days.


Thank-you Lee

I've managed to google 172P, PA28-161, J3 Cub, C310, Spitfire IIa and get 
the figures;

Max Speed, Cruise Speed, Stall Speed

I tried with the ComperSwift but there is precious little info apart from 
history type stuff.


You make a good point re it being GPL'd - it is and what is in FG
isn't mine.  However, I think it's probably a good idea to try
to talk to any people who created or subsequently developed the
work because they will have done a lot of research on it and
could save you a lot of time.


Look forward to hearing from you.
Dene

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[Flightgear-devel] Lee Elliot-CompterSwift

[dene maxwell]

Hi Lee,
I have some questions regarding the ComperSwift;

I would like to use it in the FGLive-KOSH CD being put together by Arnt... i 
know under GPL I don't have to ask for permission but would like your 
comment... particularly as I'm missing one important figure - cruise speed 
:-)...  I don't really have time to download/install and get familiar with 
the aircraft as it will be used in an AI scenario and just need to know the 
basic flight parameters/performance figures

I have the J3, 172P  C28-161 as low speed(90knt comfortable)aircraft for 
the standard NOTAM approaches and there  are heaps of 140knt+ aircraft to 
choose from (AIR New Zealand 737 ;-)...but need 5 low speed civilian 
aircraft.

The Rascal110 also looks a good candidate to fill the fifth spot :...similar 
figures would be required for that too...

if you would prefer to take this off list please feel free to mail be 
direct..

TIA
:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI Models -what files?

[dene maxwell]

Thanks Detlef, was the answer I was half expecting but was unsure how wise 
it would be to proliferate xml files 'specially model specific like that... 
I suppose if you include them in the distro and place them where they are 
not going to cause problems {/Aircraft/(myAC)/Models} then they should be 
ok I suppose this foile could also include an animation for 
tail-draggers that puts the tail on the ground when on-ground and ktas 
say 50knts yeah?

:-D ene


From: Detlef Faber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI Models -what files?
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 08:46:25 +0200

Am Freitag, den 02.06.2006, 13:12 +1200 schrieb dene maxwell:
  Hi all,
  I'm trying to using various aicraft in an AI scenario... The J3 cub 
looks
  good model-wise with a small animation problem (more on that below), but 
the
  Spitfire looks terrible!!! I using
  Aircraft/Spitfire/Models/spitfire_model.xml but part of the fuselage and
  inboard wings are missing.
 
  when using aircraft models in AI scenarios...what is the best file to 
use (
  some like Aircraft/Spitfire/spitfireIIa.xml actually stop FG from 
loading
  (098a/win Me)
 
  The other problem is the propellers aren't turning (in either the J3 cub 
or
  spitfire) and I can't find the property (in the internal 
browser/property
  tree) that would turn the engines on and presumably start the prop 
turning.
 
The AI Models use the same properties your aircraft uses. If your gear
is out, the gear of the AI Aircraft is out too, and retracts if you
retract it.

I helped myself by creating an extra AI-Model-xml file. Just a copy of
the original models xml file, but I commented out the 3d cockpit and
interiour models and set the properties for gear and prop to values that
are always matched (e.g. propdisk visible at rpm below 1).

That's just a quick fix but I've not yet discovered how to make it
properly.

Greetings

Detlef

http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear


  Regards
  Dene
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI Models -what files?

[dene maxwell]

Detlef Faber wrote:

  when using aircraft models in AI scenarios...what is the best file to 
use (
  some like Aircraft/Spitfire/spitfireIIa.xml actually stop FG from 
loading
  (098a/win Me)

Not necessarily, if the animations are properly references this
shouldn't happen. The main reason for this behavior is that all
properties are perpended with a slash '/', after removing the first
slash (making the properties relative) this behavior should go away.

Erik


Just glancing through the files, the pattern seems to be that if the .ac 
file reference is not in the xml file pointed at for the AI-Model then there 
will be problems. ie if the xml files are nested (as most are) and the .ac 
file is not in the root file but in a branch file.

I will certainly check out the leading slashes though.. thanks for the 
suggestion.. will report back any further observations. It would be handy to 
get this checked out in 09.10/cvs as if it is specific to 098a and doesn't 
occur in 09.10/cvs then its not strictly a devel topic and I'll implement 
a work-a-round for my own 098a.

Regards
:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] AI Models -what files?

[dene maxwell]

From: Ron Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 2006-06-03 at 14:57 +1200, dene maxwell wrote:
  I checked the Aircraft/Spitfire/spitfireIIa-set.xml and there were no
  leading / on any of the other file references I could find.

Erik didn't say file references, he said property references.

I couldn't see where he said either...I assumed file references...

  I did find that by deleting the sections in the
  Aircraft/Spitfire/Models/spitfire_model.xml that relate to making 
certain
  parts of the invisible when the view is 0
 
  !-- hide all of the model not visible from the cockpit --
  animation
typeselect/type
object-nameHull/object-name
object-nameHull-Aft/object-name
object-nameStub-Wing-R/object-name
object-nameStub-Wing-L/object-name
object-nameFlap-Inner-R/object-name
object-nameFlap-Inner-L/object-name
object-nameFlap-Outer-R/object-name
object-nameFlap-Outer-L/object-name
object-nameCover-Lower-M/object-name
object-nameCover-Lower-F/object-name
object-nameCover-Lower-A/object-name
object-nameCover-Engine-Side-L/object-name
object-nameCover-Engine-Side-R/object-name
object-nameUC-Main-L/object-name
object-nameUC-Main-R/object-name
condition
  not
equals
  property/sim/current-view/view-number/property


This is a property reference.  If you are in your cockpit it will hide
all parts of the Spitfire not visible from the cockpit.  Change this one
line to read:
   propertysim/current-view/view-number/property
and the Spitfire should work properly. (Not tested, this is my read of
Erik's post.)

  value0/value
/equals
  /not
/condition
  /animation
 
  that the missing parts of the aircraft re-appeared I suspect that
  (atleast under 098a) a separate [aircraft]-model-AI.xml is needed for 
some
  of the aircraft that have these sort of conditional entries.
 
  ie something that caters for;
 
  gear-up/gear-down
  flaps-up/flaps-down
  tail-up/tail-down (for tail-draggers)
  engine-running/engine-stopped

If the property list in the AI model uses starts with a / then the AI
model uses the main aircraft's property.  The main aircraft is rooted at
/  If the property does not start with a / then the model will use a
property under the AI tree...  It's late for me...  Does that make
sense?

Ah...BING...the light comes on...but how are the properties for AI aircraft 
set...if I place an instance at 2000 ft elevation...how will the AI model 
know it should have the engine going? ( ie propeller disk instread of te 
stationary propeller?)


but yes, it makes sense .,.

:-D ene

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[Flightgear-devel] AI Models -what files?

[dene maxwell]

Hi all,
I'm trying to using various aicraft in an AI scenario... The J3 cub looks 
good model-wise with a small animation problem (more on that below), but the 
Spitfire looks terrible!!! I using 
Aircraft/Spitfire/Models/spitfire_model.xml but part of the fuselage and 
inboard wings are missing.

when using aircraft models in AI scenarios...what is the best file to use ( 
some like Aircraft/Spitfire/spitfireIIa.xml actually stop FG from loading 
(098a/win Me)

The other problem is the propellers aren't turning (in either the J3 cub or 
spitfire) and I can't find the property (in the internal browser/property 
tree) that would turn the engines on and presumably start the prop turning.

Regards
Dene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] fgmap navaids

[dene maxwell]

WOW!!

great stuff Pigeon... tried to out-wit it by putting in Titahi Bay (a 
local NDB) straight back at me!!!


looking forward to airways

Cheers
:-D ene


From: Pigeon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] fgmap navaids
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:29:35 +1000


Hi all,

 I have just put up the navaids stuff to the fgmap for people to
test/play with a bit. It is at http://mpmap02.flightgear.org/
or http://pigeond.net/flightgear/fg_server_map.html and there is now a
new nav tab in the menu.


 Hope the interface is straight forward. Currently there are mainly
two ways of using it:

 - Search a navaid by its id/code or name. After a search, results
   would be shown at the bottom, and you can show and pan to a navaid
   by clicking on it in the result list.

 - Show all navaids in the current view of the map.

 You can select what type of navaid to search for/show as well.

 You can toggle a type of navaid to be visible/invisible.



 There are certain things on my TODO list:

 - Drawing proper glideslope/etc for ILS, currently it only shows the
   name and the freq for the ILS.

 - Heliport is not done/shown yet.

 - Optimizing the database/queries. I haven't tune anything yet. I
   guess this is one of the purposes of this testing release. So
   please don't mind if sometimes the lookups are slow.

 - Adding metar reports for airports


 Please let me know any feedbacks and bugs.


 http://mpmap01.flightgear.org/ stays as it is, just in case the new
fgmap is really broken :)


Pigeon.



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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

Hi Pigeon,

yeah, saw thatdidn't look good eh?

will using sudo to rename textures.high help with memory allocation?

:-D ene




From: Pigeon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 16:04:32 +1000

 does the linux sudo command stand for Super User Device Over-ride , 
I
 ask because I used the mv command to try and correct a typo on /mnt 
and

 got a permission denied message, I tried again  using sudo mv and it
 worked

Pretty much. sudo allows you to run a command as another user, and
by default as root, think of it like the Administrator account on
windows, i.e. the super user.

 http://denemaxwell.blogspot.com/2006/05/dmesg-output.html

oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x280d2, order=0
...
...
Out of Memory: Killed process 4149 (fgfs).


Looks like 256mb of ram is not enough for FG?


Pigeon.



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[Flightgear-devel] New Zealand Mesh terrain data

[dene maxwell]

I'll investigate all the options of getting this data for FG...will keep you 
updated


Meanwhile ..check out
http://www.redbarent.com/nzmesh-overview.htm

:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

Martin I might have unfairly judged all ISO's by my experience... I 
certainly understand the the problems with radio links ...we had a 2.3Ghz 
link across Wellington harbour to Petone was finally abandoned because 
of re-occurring multipath errors and container crane attenuation if I've 
judged the site unfairly I apologise..


regards
Dene



From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FGLive-0.1 Feedback
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 09:12:58 + (UTC)

dene maxwell wrote:

 - Don't even try downloading the ISO using FTP! If you need to punish
 yourself, book in for root canal work, it's less painful.

Honestly I don't understand why an unstable network connection leads
right into painful work.
On the other hand it's correct that you unfortunately hit the wrong
day. The FTP server is connected over a directed radio link and the day
you tried we had really bad weather (TM) over here. Together with a
container crane that has been erected between the two radio stations
this leads to significantly reduced transfer rate over the link:

  http://www.mgras.net/mrtg/crimson.ping.html

Currently people are happily downloading the ISO image and other stuff,

Martin.
--
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

After some really impressive help from those on IRC I can say i've
exhausted all options I know to get this goinghardware;
P4/1.8Ghz
256MB RAM
nVidia GeForce2 MX 32MB video

attached is the Debugging level= Info output  ... sorry for the size but 
various email servers block; zip, double extension. files so here it is 
a a plain ol' TXT file


I loved what I saw but regret I couldn't enjoy more

:-D ene




From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback
Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 05:21:36 +0200

On Mon, 22 May 2006 11:52:45 +1000, Pigeon wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  - FGLive won't run on a P1/166Mhz, 96MB Ram with S3 Trio64V+ video
  card...  Loading GRUB ...error 21

 That's an unfortunate bug due to old/broken bios with some old
 machines. Apparently LILO might work.

..ok, now it's getting perrrsonal: http://ubcd.sf.net/  burn 'n boot
that cd, find the SmartBootManager on the grub disk, put
SmartBootManager on your boot drive and use that to boot the FGLiveCD.

 On the other hand, I don't know if your machine is really capable
 of
 running FG? (Anyone?)


  - If you're gonna cut the ISO on Win ME...use a CD-RW you'll
  most  probably end up cutting it more than once and it gets
  expensive using CD-R's

 In fact around here it's cheaper to get CDR's ;)

..putting the ufo in the soup, I saw 17fps, so try it.

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.




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Finished command line arguments
Initializing splash screen
GeForce2 MX/AGP/SSE2
Max texture size = 2048
Depth buffer bits = 24
Loading Airport Database ...
Data file version = 810
[FINISHED LOADING]
Loading Navaid Databases
opening file: /opt/flightgear/data/Navaids/carrier_nav.dat
opening file: /opt/flightgear/data/Navaids/TACAN_freq.dat
 Fixes
Attempting to set starting position for LSZR:10L
runway =  9.56022, 47.4862 length = 597.103 heading = 277.12
Position for LSZR is (9.55636, 47.4866) new heading is 97.12
Initializing Time
Current greenwich mean time = Mon May 22 16:30:04 2006

Current local time  = Tue May 23 04:30:04 2006

Reading timezone info from: /opt/flightgear/data/Timezone/zone.tab
Using zonename = /opt/flightgear/data/Timezone/Europe/Vaduz
 First time, doing precise gst
General Initialization
=== ==
FG_ROOT = /opt/flightgear/data

Initializing basic built-in commands:
 null
 nasal
 exit
 reinit
 suspend
 resume
 load
 save
 panel-load
 panel-mouse-click
 preferences-load
 view-cycle
 screen-capture
 hires-screen-capture
 tile-cache-reload
 set-sea-level-air-temp-degc
 set-outside-air-temp-degc
 set-dewpoint-sea-level-air-temp-degc
 set-dewpoint-temp-degc
 timeofday
 property-toggle
 property-assign
 property-adjust
 property-multiply
 property-swap
 property-scale
 property-cycle
 property-randomize
 data-logging-commit
 dialog-new
 dialog-show
 dialog-close
 dialog-update
 dialog-apply
 gui-redraw
 play-audio-message
 presets-commit
 log-level
 replay
 decrease-visibility
 increase-visibility
 hud-brightkey
 hud-masterswitch
 hud-init
 hud-init2
 loadxml
 savexml
 press-cockpit-button
 release-cockpit-button
Initializing scenery subsystem
Reading properties for panel C172P 2D instruments.
Set background texture to Aircraft/c172p/Panels/Textures/transparent-bg.rgb
Reading panel instruments
No type supplied for layer face assuming texture
No type supplied for layer face assuming texture
No type supplied for layer face assuming texture
No type supplied for layer face assuming texture
No type supplied for layer face assuming texture
No type supplied for layer face assuming texture
No type supplied for layer bezel assuming texture
No type supplied for layer clock background assuming texture
No type supplied for layer glare shield assuming texture
No type supplied for layer gauge face assuming texture
No type supplied for layer bezel assuming texture
No type supplied for layer egt needle assuming texture
No type supplied for layer fuel flow needle assuming texture
No type supplied for layer gauge labels assuming texture
No type 

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

I use the P1/166Mhz , S3 video for Atlas even struggles with that, very 
slow to zoom and jerky panning.


But will try very low res and see if it changes where it stops loading (will 
also try the ufo as suggested by Arnt)


:-D ene



From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback
Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 18:05:26 +0200

On Mon, 22 May 2006 13:27:56 +0100, AJ wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On Monday 22 May 2006 08:31, dene maxwell wrote:
  After some really impressive help from those on IRC I can say i've
  exhausted all options I know to get this goinghardware;
  P4/1.8Ghz
  256MB RAM
  nVidia GeForce2 MX 32MB video

 Does anyone else run FGFS on a 32MB video card?  I'd be suspicious
 that's not  really enough (not with the high res textures, anyway).
 My old 440MX 64Mb  card is only just about enough to usably run
 flightgear, and the plib texture  compression patch is almost
 essential to use the carrier etc.

..try lower than vga, ' --geometry=320x240 ' and --game-mode.

..also try swap the video cards, chances are your S3 card may do DRI.

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

Hi all,

PROGRESS

X window resolution set to 1024x768
FG resolution set to 320x240
Every enhancement truned off

Loads further; all testures load now (instead of stalling on 
MixedCropPastureCover) and it gets to AI Manager...


I might be jumping to comclusions here, but I reckon it could be video card 
related ;-)


Thanks for everyones help
:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

Hi Arnt



From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 23 May 2006 07:29:28 +1200, dene wrote in message

 Hi all,

 PROGRESS

 X window resolution set to 1024x768
 FG resolution set to 320x240
 Every enhancement truned off

 Loads further; all testures load now (instead of stalling on
 MixedCropPastureCover) and it gets to AI Manager...

 I might be jumping to comclusions here, but I reckon it could be video
 card  related ;-)

..said the postage stamp designer.  ;o)

..the irc guys marched you thru lspci, dmesg, glxinfo etc?

No, only how to mount the PCs HDD and save the log file to the hard disk 
(sudo mount -t vfat /dev/hda1/mnt and sudo cp /tmp/fglive.txt /mnt/ )


what are those commands?

:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

I don't have an ftp site but can cut and paste onto my Blog  ...are there 
any command line switches that would make the output more useful?


:-D ene



From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 01:36:46 +0200

On Tue, 23 May 2006 10:24:23 +1200, dene wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi Arnt


 From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Tue, 23 May 2006 07:29:28 +1200, dene wrote in message
 
   Hi all,
  
   PROGRESS
  
   X window resolution set to 1024x768
   FG resolution set to 320x240
   Every enhancement truned off
  
   Loads further; all testures load now (instead of stalling on
   MixedCropPastureCover) and it gets to AI Manager...
  
   I might be jumping to comclusions here, but I reckon it could be
   video card  related ;-)
 
 ..said the postage stamp designer.  ;o)
 
 ..the irc guys marched you thru lspci, dmesg, glxinfo etc?
 
 No, only how to mount the PCs HDD and save the log file to the hard
 disk  (sudo mount -t vfat /dev/hda1/mnt and sudo cp /tmp/fglive.txt
 /mnt/ )

 what are those commands?

..diagnosis tools, run 'em and put the output on the web and post the
url here.

..to capture output to a file, append ' outputofwhichcommand '.

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

Mate, it's a P1 AT form M/B  no AGP ... Googled 256MB, OpenGL 
compliant, PCI video cards ... got zero hits..do you think it could be 
the syntax of my search ?   ;-)


:-D ene


From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 04:51:48 +0200

On Tue, 23 May 2006 14:28:53 +1200, dene wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi Rob, I can get a 256MB nVidia (5600 i think) for nothing from a
 relative...the problem is I run FG on my partners PC and she has
 vetoed the  video upgrade. :-(

..put it on you P1 and make her envy you, top framerates buzzing the
coast here in the ufo, was 17, so you oughtta see 5 and that's flyable.

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

Hi Arnt,

here's the outpuyt from those commands your suggested...I didn't use the 
verbose switch at the moment...if anything proves interesting I'll retry 
them.


An observations;

before I launched FG through the wizard I opened an Xterm window... then 
started FG same options as before, but with xterm window open FG didn't load 
as far as I would have expected ( ie to AI Manager)


A question;

does the linux sudo command stand for Super User Device Over-ride , I 
ask because I used the mv command to try and correct a typo on /mnt and 
got a permission denied message, I tried again  using sudo mv and it 
worked


Links;

http://denemaxwell.blogspot.com/2006/05/glxnfo-output.html

http://denemaxwell.blogspot.com/2006/05/dmesg-output.html

http://denemaxwell.blogspot.com/2006/05/lspci-output.html

http://denemaxwell.blogspot.com/2006/05/fglive-log-output.html

:-D ene



From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 04:46:22 +0200

On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:13:04 +1200, dene wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback
 Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 01:36:46 +0200
 
 On Tue, 23 May 2006 10:24:23 +1200, dene wrote in message
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
   Hi Arnt
  
  
   From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   On Tue, 23 May 2006 07:29:28 +1200, dene wrote in message
   
 Hi all,

 PROGRESS

 X window resolution set to 1024x768
 FG resolution set to 320x240
 Every enhancement truned off

 Loads further; all testures load now (instead of stalling on
 MixedCropPastureCover) and it gets to AI Manager...

 I might be jumping to comclusions here, but I reckon it could
 be video card  related ;-)
   
   ..said the postage stamp designer.  ;o)
   
   ..the irc guys marched you thru lspci, dmesg, glxinfo etc?
   
   No, only how to mount the PCs HDD and save the log file to the
   hard disk  (sudo mount -t vfat /dev/hda1/mnt and sudo cp
   /tmp/fglive.txt /mnt/ )
  
   what are those commands?
 
 ..diagnosis tools, run 'em and put the output on the web and post the
 url here.
 
 ..to capture output to a file, append ' outputofwhichcommand '.

 I don't have an ftp site but can cut and paste onto my Blog  ...are
 there  any command line switches that would make the output more
 useful?

..is he keen enough? Url!   ;o)

 ...are there any command line switches that would make the output
 more useful?

..add  -v's but chk them with  --help, -h, -? etc first.  Throw in
the occational sudo as needed, but don't push your damned luck,
root bites _hard_.  ;o)

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

I tried IE/FTP and Firefox/FTP and as you say both reported they had 
downloaded 530MB but the files were very much smaller.


Used BitTorrent with no Antivirus or S/ware firewall (only the NAT router) 
and got a top download rate of 50KB/s and a 543MB file.


Used to use Gozilla as download manager... about 4 years ago it was 
great...now it just [EMAIL PROTECTED] up the browser.


Our local ISP was raping the dial-up for DNS/DHCP resources and the dial-up 
connections couldn't resolve URL's...we couldn't go to their ADSL offering 
as we had a different telephone provider and they bundled telephone and 
ADSL.


so we bit the bullet and got cable TV/2Mb/s SDSL (the cable was aready run 
to the house)... my poor old P1 can only get 97KB/s out of the 2Mbps pipe 
(approx 250MB/s should be possible)... but still if the FTP/Torrent site and 
intermediates are up to it can get good download speeds...


look forward to cutting the CD and try FGLive feedback on Win 32 Me/98SE 
platforms iminen.


:-D enet



From: Paul Surgeon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sunday 21 May 2006 01:39, dene maxwell wrote:
 consequently downloding a
 530MB ISO takes a painful 6.5 hours.

You call that painful? FG CVS is over 400MB and I download it on dialup 
(and

Linux distros and about 3GB of GIS data per month).
All you need is patience my friend.  :)

 When it does complete the download, i
 end up with a file very much smaller than 530MB.

What are you downloading it with?
If you're using a browser then I'm not surprised since they often drop
downloads part of the way and then claim to have finished. IE and FireFox
both do this nasty thing.
Hopefully you're using a download manager. You can grab a windows copy of 
wget

and use that or use a nice GUI one like NetAnts.

Paul



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RE: [Flightgear-devel] FGBenachmark; Was: ..FGLiveCD boot workaround

[dene maxwell]

Just an idea Martin... A FGLive type ISO with programs that will benchmark 
the hardware only so what if it runs under *nix local optimisations 
are a matter of personal choice albeit open for public discussion you 
guys would know if this is do-able/worth-while though

 just an idea

regards
:-D ene



From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] FGBenachmark; Was: ..FGLiveCD boot workaround
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 10:32:23 + (UTC)

Arnt Karlsen wrote:

 ..that fancy FGBenchmark-0.0.6-4-FGL line should be:

Which FGBenchmark are you referring to ? I didn't continue FGBenchmark
after 0.0.5a because newer FlightGear releases didn't compile on all
platforms I was aiming at. Did somebody actually succeed in building
binaries for all those platforms ?

Martin.
--
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FGBenachmark; Was: ..FGLiveCD boot workaround

[dene maxwell]

Hi Martin, I can safely say that that one passed over me about 5,000ft ASL, 
I'll take your word that it's not a viable option... it was just a 
suggestion


:-D ene



From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] FGBenachmark; Was: ..FGLiveCD boot 
workaround

Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 11:06:54 + (UTC)

dene maxwell wrote:
 Just an idea Martin... A FGLive type ISO with programs that will 
benchmark

 the hardware only

The FGBenchmark package was meant to compare performance not only under
different setups of the same operating system and architecture (say
Linux on x86) but to compare different arcitectures as well.
So I put 'fgfs'binaries for different systems (Linux, FreeBSD,
Solaris/sparc, Solaris/x86, IRIX) into a package and made a start
script that determines which binary to run.

Putting this chooser into a shell script is easy as you can use the
'uname' command to differ between operating systems and architectures
one you have a running operating system.
Putting different boot loaders for different architectures onto one
Live-CD is almost impossible,

Martin.
--
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
--


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[Flightgear-devel] FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

Hi all,
Experience to date;

- Don't even try downloading the ISO using FTP! If you need to punish 
yourself, book in for root canal work, it's less painful. If you want to 
make it easy, download and install the BitTorrent Client.
- FGLive won't run on a P1/166Mhz, 96MB Ram with S3 Trio64V+ video card... 
Loading GRUB ...error 21
- If you're gonna cut the ISO on Win ME...use a CD-RW you'll most 
probably end up cutting it more than once and it gets expensive using CD-R's


Cutting 4th iteration now, with no virus software or soft firewall... more 
when I have it


Cheers
:-D ene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

Hi Curt

I couldn't really give two hoots about getting FG running on the P1... it's 
P4 I want FG=099 to run




From: Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pigeon wrote:

- FGLive won't run on a P1/166Mhz, 96MB Ram with S3 Trio64V+ video 
card... Loading GRUB ...error 21





   That's an unfortunate bug due to old/broken bios with some old
machines. Apparently LILO might work.

   On the other hand, I don't know if your machine is really capable of
running FG? (Anyone?)




P1/166 seems pretty doubtful.  Dene, if you paid yourself $1 for every hour 
you've spent trying to get FG running on this old machine you would have 
been able to afford a new machine by now. :-)



Tha sounds like shuffling change from one pocket to another!!!

... over here we call that pocket hockey :-) equally as productive !!

:-)




Curt.


:-D ene

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

ok... ran FGlive and set the debugging level to info... will try to save the 
resulting log file and make it available to anyone interested.


but  basically even after the 4th iteration of cutting the ISO, it stops 
processing (mouse position only gets updated every 30 secs) at the;

loading material MixedCropPastureCover
 /opt/flightgear/data/Textures.high/Terrain/irrcrop2.rgb

that's no matter what enhancements I have de-selected; 3D clouds, AI 
objects... and rendering set to 16bpp


everything appears to load normally (in the logging window) just takes a 
very long time


any other info I can provide that you might be interested in, just let me 
know. Not for my self...I'm still enjoying 098a, but to further the project 
as a whole.



Cheers
:-D ene



From: Pigeon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback
Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 12:46:08 +1000

 I gather FGLive is based around =FGv0.9.9 ...it loads further from the
 FGLive CD than it ever did under Windows Me ...so maybe that would 
indicate

 that it's not a purely hardware issue.

Yes, FGLive's FG is currently 0.9.10, plus a little bit cvs fixes.

So do you mean there are problems with FG under FGLive with your
machine as well? What are they?


Pigeon.



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: FGLive-0.1 Feedback

[dene maxwell]

Hi mate,


From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 22 May 2006 11:52:45 +1000, Pigeon wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  - FGLive won't run on a P1/166Mhz, 96MB Ram with S3 Trio64V+ video
  card...  Loading GRUB ...error 21





..ok, now it's getting perrrsonal: http://ubcd.sf.net/  burn 'n boot
that cd, find the SmartBootManager on the grub disk, put
SmartBootManager on your boot drive and use that to boot the FGLiveCD.

give up on the P1 my friend... it's a dead duck   but I will say that 
trying to get downloaded and running I have spent 2 days... might I expect a 
fraction of that time on your part when I get the new NZWN Scenery 
(distributed under [FG-Kiwi-Users]) out?


:-)

:-D ene



..putting the ufo in the soup, I saw 17fps, so try it.

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.




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RE: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

Tried to find the win32 version of the FGLiveCD to try had a look on 
pigeons site and all seemed to be oriented towards *nix ...only too willing 
to help with feedback...but need to know where to look for the 
binary/Iso


...is there a win32 binary?
...will any iso start up under *nix?

... treat me as a newbie (to FGlive anyway)...  where do I go, what do I 
click, what do I do?


will give all the feedback you need/want/can handle

:-D ene




From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object 
Properties

Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 03:09:36 +0200

On Sat, 20 May 2006 07:52:48 +1200, dene wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi Arnt


 From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 On Fri, 19 May 2006 12:11:49 +1200, dene wrote in message
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
   still just the question about multiple AI objects... any help
   including  *RTFM* would be appreciated (hopefully with links) ...
   I apologise for  wasting time, my only excuse is I'm keen :-/
 
 ..keen enough?  ;o)
 Does Pigeon's FGLive CD run on your box?
 Does the CD FG run?  What sort of framerates do you see?

 No ... I haven't tried because I gather it's based around 09.10 (or
 atleast  099) both of which won't run on my box.  On 098a with raw
 terrain I can get  40-60 fps...with 3d objects it drops to 20-30fps.

..try it anyway, if it fails on your box, we learn something we can use.

 ..and, just where you guys hide the framerate display on that
 launcher thing?  (No framerates yet, too busy debugging the boot.)
 
 eh?

..the boot failed miserably on my box and I have a few ideas on why,
too many Morphix and FG developers on Nvidea's or some such.   ;o)
So I haven't started playing with FG yet.  I did like the glxgears
numbers though,  over 900fps on a 1xAGP slot driven by a 450MHz AMD
K6-2, I usually  see about 600, so I'm gonna move some hardware around.

..FGLiveCD boot workaround for ATI etc card users:
hit [Esc] and use Grub's text based menu.  No, it doesn't cure
the first X config.

 ..what was the benchmark command line again, and, should
 we change it to automate collection of benchmark data?
 
 eh?

..we used to have a wee tarball distro for benchmarking FG.
The benchmark command we ran in FGBenchmark-0.0.5:
' fgfs  --aircraft=c172r-3d --airport=KSFO \
--start-date-lat=2002:04:11:11:11:11 \
--prop:/sim/fuel-fraction=0.2 \
--enable-fuel-freeze \
--prop:/environment/params/real-world-weather-fetch=false \
--prop:/sim/rendering/enhanced-lighting=false \
--prop:/sim/rendering/multi-pass-clouds=false \
--prop:/sim/rendering/bump-mapping=false \
--prop:/sim/rendering/use-display-list=false \
--prop:/sim/hud/draw-fps=true --disable-intro-music --disable-sound \
--enable-auto-coordination --prop:/controls/gear/brake-parking=1.0
', parks us in a C172 with a nice framerate display.

..we probably wanna specify and report window size and coloring,
and report hardware.  And somewhere.

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.



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RE: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

SWEET what do i download?... i've never burnt an ISO before so 
please forget that I should know better. if this is 
possible/probable I really want to give it a try and hopefully the 
information gained will help everyone :-)


:-D ene



From: Frederic Bouvier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: RE: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim 
Object Properties

Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 09:53:12 +0200

Selon dene maxwell :

 Tried to find the win32 version of the FGLiveCD to try had a look on
 pigeons site and all seemed to be oriented towards *nix ...only too 
willing

 to help with feedback...but need to know where to look for the
 binary/Iso

 ...is there a win32 binary?
 ...will any iso start up under *nix?

 ... treat me as a newbie (to FGlive anyway)...  where do I go, what do I
 click, what do I do?

 will give all the feedback you need/want/can handle

Dene,

If you download the FGLive image, burn it on a CD and reboot you PC from 
the CD,
you'll be on Linux just because it wouldn't use your harddisk, and 
hopefully,
you'll be able to experience FG 0.9.10 on Linux. That way, you'll know if 
it's
your hardware that is at fault (if it doesn't work), or your drivers on 
Win98

(if it works).

-Fred

--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/  FlightGear Scenery Designer


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

Hi Paul,

I refer to my reply to Fred...only too keen to try it...particularly since 
you've re-assured me that it won't try to install anything on the hard-drive 
(it's my partners PC) ... I've never burnt an ISO and hope I don't need any 
*nix knowledge ... I can try it on a P1 166Mhz, 96Mbyte RAM, S3 Trio64V+ and 
a P4 1.8Ghz, 256M RAM, GeForce2 MX


... feedback will be gladly given

:-D ene



From: Paul Surgeon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim 
Object Properties

Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 09:55:15 +0200

On Saturday 20 May 2006 09:10, dene maxwell wrote:
 Tried to find the win32 version of the FGLiveCD to try had a look on
 pigeons site and all seemed to be oriented towards *nix ...only too 
willing

 to help with feedback...but need to know where to look for the
 binary/Iso

 ...is there a win32 binary?
 ...will any iso start up under *nix?

 ... treat me as a newbie (to FGlive anyway)...  where do I go, what do I
 click, what do I do?


The FGLiveCD is an entire Linux operating system plus FlightGear plus all 
the

drivers needed to run on most hardware on a single CD/DVD.

You don't install it. You just boot off the CD/DVD and it runs in RAM.
In fact you don't even need to have a hard drive in your system in order to
run the CD/DVD.

There is no Win32 version and even if it was possible to make a Windows XP
live CD (highly doubt it since the Windows kernel and system aren't 
anywhere

as configurable as Linux) it would be illegal.

Paul


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RE: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

What's the URL to the image?



From: Frederic Bouvier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: RE: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim 
Object Properties

Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 10:24:02 +0200

Selon dene maxwell :

 SWEET what do i download?... i've never burnt an ISO before so
 please forget that I should know better. if this is
 possible/probable I really want to give it a try and hopefully the
 information gained will help everyone :-)

Every CD burner software are able to burn a ISO image. EasyCD Creator, 
Nero, you

name it...

They all have a menu option Burn an image

-Fred

--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/  FlightGear Scenery Designer


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RE: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

Thanks Fred...that was what I needed...will try to burn it tomorrow morning 
(20:52 local and our equivalent of the FA cup is on Super 14 Rugby 
semi-final)


... now what I need is  a way to try an AI flight-plan using UFO and the FG 
command line *--flight-plan=* option ;-)


:-D ene



From: Frederic Bouvier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: RE: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim 
Object Properties

Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 10:50:21 +0200

Selon dene maxwell :

 What's the URL to the image?

It's in the front page of www.flightgear.org :
ftp://ftp.ihg.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/FGLive/fglive-0.1-linuxtag.iso

or use BitTorrent.

-Fred


--
Frédéric Bouvier
http://frfoto.free.fr Photo gallery - album photo
http://www.fotolia.fr/p/2278  Other photo gallery
http://fgsd.sourceforge.net/  FlightGear Scenery Designer


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

Hi Dave
so how do I specify a *--flight-plan=* file for the FG command-linewhat 
format, relative path etc


I would like to test an AI flight-plan with the UFO so I can track it using 
Atlas


cheers
:-D ene

PS 6% of the ISO downloaded.could be a long night...my ISP's cable 'net 
is going really slow!!!\

:-{


From: Dave Culp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim 
Object Properties

Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 04:09:59 -0500

On Saturday 20 May 2006 03:59 am, dene maxwell wrote:

 ... now what I need is  a way to try an AI flight-plan using UFO and the 
FG

 command line *--flight-plan=* option ;-)


As far as I know the --flight-plan=* option has nothing to do with AI.  
AI

flight plans are defined within each entry of the scenario file.


Dave


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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Proper

[dene maxwell]

so the AI flight-plan *.xml format can't be used for *aircraft* flight-plans 
(ie those specified on the commandline) ?. BUGGER!!! :-)... I suppose 
that would be too simple :-} but then again nothing worth-while is easy 
eh?


will persevere with what I got... thanks for your comments

:-D ene



From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Re: ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim 
Object Properties

Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:34:49 +0200

* dene maxwell -- Saturday 20 May 2006 11:27:
 so how do I specify a *--flight-plan=* file for the FG 
command-linewhat

 format, relative path etc

a flightplan is a simple text file with one waypoint per line, whereby
waypoints in 0.9.8 are (airport|fix|nav). For example:

ksfo
koak
ebase
ak

(In cvs you can also use a lon,lat pair, and an optional altitude per
waypoint:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  or  -122.234,[EMAIL PROTECTED])

The path should be relative to the fgfs start dir, but it's probably
best to use an absolute path.--flight-plan=/tmp/route



 PS 6% of the ISO downloaded.could be a long night...my ISP's cable 
'net

 is going really slow!!!\

BTW: In one burner app on MS Windows I didn't find any option in the menu
for burning ISOs, but when I just used File/Open on an iso file, it did
the right thing.  :-)

m.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

sorta what I gathered Melchiors reply comfirmed it as I say  
..nothing worthwhile is easy...


thanks for the reply :-D ene


From: Dave Culp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim 
Object Properties

Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 04:39:53 -0500

On Saturday 20 May 2006 04:27 am, dene maxwell wrote:

 so how do I specify a *--flight-plan=* file for the FG 
command-linewhat

 format, relative path etc

 As far as I know the --flight-plan=* option has nothing to do with 
AI.

 AI
 flight plans are defined within each entry of the scenario file.


If it's AI flight plans you are talking about, then you won't be able to
assign these using a command line switch.  AI flight plans are only 
specified

within scenario files.

If you want to use the --flight-plan=* command line switch, then maybe
someone here who has used that before can tell you what it does.  I think 
it

has something to do with the autopilot.

Dave


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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Proper

[dene maxwell]

To all who replied on this...thanks for the support...I realise 098a is 
strictly not devel material but your help is really appreciated..


...I always endeavour to return that which is offered... it might not be 
100% sometimes but you guys will always get the best I can do...


Cheers and thanks again

hope you might find the time to fly my *local* when I get the next update 
out...[FG-Kiwi-Users]


:-D ene


From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Re: ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim 
Object Properties

Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:42:11 +0200

* Melchior FRANZ -- Saturday 20 May 2006 11:34:
 a flightplan is a simple text file with one waypoint per line, whereby
 waypoints in 0.9.8 are (airport|fix|nav). For example:

 ksfo
[...]

Err ... in 0.9.8 the waypoints need to be in upper case letters:

KSFO
KOAK
...

m.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

Hi,
Having real problems downloading the ISO. I'm using my P1 as it uses 98SE 
and is less prone to crashes than the P4 using Win Me. The P1 can usually 
drag 70KB/s out of the 2Mb/s SDSL cable connection but using the link 
provided it only gets to a little over 20KB/s... consequently downloding a 
530MB ISO takes a painful 6.5 hours. When it does complete the download, i 
end up with a file very much smaller than 530MB. I did try on the P4 and 
ended up with an 80MB file. When I created a CD using this file it showed 
530MB used on the CD but when I booted from it I got the splash screens and 
got to choose a language before the screen filled with error messages that 
it couldn't access files... looked very much like a disk corruption. When I 
downloaded it on the P1, I ended up with a file of only 29MB. Very reluctant 
to burn another CD with this file and end up with another useless CD.


What's this BitTorrent that was mentioned and can/how do I use it?

Cheers
:-D ene



From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim 
Object Properties

Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 14:44:30 +0200

On Sat, 20 May 2006 20:38:43 +1200, dene wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi Paul,

 I refer to my reply to Fred...only too keen to try it...particularly
 since  you've re-assured me that it won't try to install anything on
 the hard-drive  (it's my partners PC) ... I've never burnt an ISO and
 hope I don't need any  *nix knowledge ... I can try it on a P1 166Mhz,
 96Mbyte RAM, S3 Trio64V+ and  a P4 1.8Ghz, 256M RAM, GeForce2 MX

 ... feedback will be gladly given

..on both, please.  I'm curious about your P1's omph.  ;o)

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

Hi




From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 21 May 2006 11:39:17 +1200, dene wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi,
 Having real problems downloading the ISO. I'm using my P1 as it uses
 98SE  and is less prone to crashes than the P4 using Win Me. The P1
 can usually  drag 70KB/s out of the 2Mb/s SDSL cable connection but
 using the link  provided it only gets to a little over 20KB/s...
 consequently downloding a  530MB ISO takes a painful 6.5 hours. When

..on Bittorrent or off ftp???


FTP with s/ware firewall disabled (I'm behind a NAT router so not really a 
big risk)


I have just downloaded and installed Bittorrent client... it seems to be 
going even slower (17KB/s) than FTP




..could also be your Wintendo setups.  You might wanna fetch a
lightweight distro like http://damnsmalllinux.org/ (50MB for
creditcard size cds) and use that to fetch and burn FGLiveCD.

Hey Arnt, just an observation I've noticed that alot of *nix users will 
dis Windows at almost every opportunity but I don't nearly as many Windows 
users dis'ing *nix... have you noticed this ?


nothing meant by it...just an observation ;-)

Thanks for your help
Regards
:-D ene

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

OK... I'll give it a go...I get the FGLive url from the archives (if they're 
behaving) and let you know the results.


btw  ... i want to test an AI flight-plan using the ufo ...found the 
flight-plan command line option but it doesn't seem to want to work. I have 
tried;


a) invoking with path relative to FG-Root to the ai flight-plan (*.xml)
b) invoking with full path to the ai flight-plan (*.xml)
c) invoking with full path and xml extension

will the --flight-plan= commandline parameter accept AI formated 
flight-plans?   ... the getstart.pdf didn't have much detail apart from 
saying that it was for users who know what they're doing...obviously I 
DON'T... :-}


:-D ene



From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] ..FGLiveCD boot workaround, was: AI Sim Object 
Properties

Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 03:09:36 +0200

On Sat, 20 May 2006 07:52:48 +1200, dene wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi Arnt


 From: Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 On Fri, 19 May 2006 12:11:49 +1200, dene wrote in message
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
   still just the question about multiple AI objects... any help
   including  *RTFM* would be appreciated (hopefully with links) ...
   I apologise for  wasting time, my only excuse is I'm keen :-/
 
 ..keen enough?  ;o)
 Does Pigeon's FGLive CD run on your box?
 Does the CD FG run?  What sort of framerates do you see?

 No ... I haven't tried because I gather it's based around 09.10 (or
 atleast  099) both of which won't run on my box.  On 098a with raw
 terrain I can get  40-60 fps...with 3d objects it drops to 20-30fps.

..try it anyway, if it fails on your box, we learn something we can use.

 ..and, just where you guys hide the framerate display on that
 launcher thing?  (No framerates yet, too busy debugging the boot.)
 
 eh?

..the boot failed miserably on my box and I have a few ideas on why,
too many Morphix and FG developers on Nvidea's or some such.   ;o)
So I haven't started playing with FG yet.  I did like the glxgears
numbers though,  over 900fps on a 1xAGP slot driven by a 450MHz AMD
K6-2, I usually  see about 600, so I'm gonna move some hardware around.

..FGLiveCD boot workaround for ATI etc card users:
hit [Esc] and use Grub's text based menu.  No, it doesn't cure
the first X config.

 ..what was the benchmark command line again, and, should
 we change it to automate collection of benchmark data?
 
 eh?

..we used to have a wee tarball distro for benchmarking FG.
The benchmark command we ran in FGBenchmark-0.0.5:
' fgfs  --aircraft=c172r-3d --airport=KSFO \
--start-date-lat=2002:04:11:11:11:11 \
--prop:/sim/fuel-fraction=0.2 \
--enable-fuel-freeze \
--prop:/environment/params/real-world-weather-fetch=false \
--prop:/sim/rendering/enhanced-lighting=false \
--prop:/sim/rendering/multi-pass-clouds=false \
--prop:/sim/rendering/bump-mapping=false \
--prop:/sim/rendering/use-display-list=false \
--prop:/sim/hud/draw-fps=true --disable-intro-music --disable-sound \
--enable-auto-coordination --prop:/controls/gear/brake-parking=1.0
', parks us in a C172 with a nice framerate display.

..we probably wanna specify and report window size and coloring,
and report hardware.  And somewhere.

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three:
  best case, worst case, and just in case.



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[Flightgear-devel] AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

Hi
I have been exploring what's possible with the AI features of 098a (win32 
Binary). By careful substitution in the Nimitz files, have got Roberto's 
FerryBoat1 to follow a course across the local harbour. A couple of 
questions have arisen about behaviour I don't understand;


- in the ai section or preferences.xml I added my scenario (arahunga_demo) 
[this is the name of the local interisland ferry *Arahunga*], for testing 
purposes I still wanted the nimitz to appear, so modified the ai-traffic 
value to 2 (as only the first entry in ai would appear) despite the 
ai-traffic value being increased, only the first entry in ai appears. I 
created a separate wrapper with an approx 100m easterly displacement for a 
second instance of the nimitz (a known good sim)...but still only the first 
entry shows how do I get more than 1 AI object to show?


- in the nimitz_demo.xml file is has an entry typecarrier/type, changing 
carrier to anything else kills the AI object. What's the significance of 
the type value and what values can it take?


- does each ai object have it's own instance of a property tree? ie if I 
read a lat and long from the property tree; a) will it be the planes or the 
AI object's b) if I have more than one AI object how do I choose between 
them(property tree-wise). h can I access ai-object #2's properties 
from the animations of ai-object #1?


this all based around 098a features as I would hope the answers will be :-} 
as I can't test solutions that rely on features in versions later than 098a.


Kind regards
:-D ene

PS new distro of NZ (NZWN) objects and animations out soon for those that 
are interested.


_
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RE: [Flightgear-devel] AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

Hi
I fired up FG this morning to explore the property tree..



From: dene maxwell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 20:09:57 +1200

Hi
I have been exploring what's possible with the AI features of 098a (win32 
Binary). By careful substitution in the Nimitz files, have got Roberto's 
FerryBoat1 to follow a course across the local harbour. A couple of 
questions have arisen about behaviour I don't understand;


- in the ai section or preferences.xml I added my scenario 
(arahunga_demo) [this is the name of the local interisland ferry 
*Arahunga*], for testing purposes I still wanted the nimitz to appear, so 
modified the ai-traffic value to 2 (as only the first entry in ai would 
appear) despite the ai-traffic value being increased, only the first 
entry in ai appears. I created a separate wrapper with an approx 100m 
easterly displacement for a second instance of the nimitz (a known good 
sim)...but still only the first entry shows how do I get more than 1 AI 
object to show?


- in the nimitz_demo.xml file is has an entry typecarrier/type, 
changing carrier to anything else kills the AI object. What's the 
significance of the type value and what values can it take?


- does each ai object have it's own instance of a property tree? ie if I 
read a lat and long from the property tree; a) will it be the planes or the 
AI object's b) if I have more than one AI object how do I choose between 
them(property tree-wise). h can I access ai-object #2's properties 
from the animations of ai-object #1?




.and found the /ai/models branch, answers this question anyway 
any help on the others would still be appreciated



this all based around 098a features as I would hope the answers will be :-} 
as I can't test solutions that rely on features in versions later than 
098a.


Kind regards
:-D ene

PS new distro of NZ (NZWN) objects and animations out soon for those that 
are interested.




_
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RE: [Flightgear-devel] AI Sim Object Properties

[dene maxwell]

Hi
I looked in CVS  and downloaded and read Dave Culp's AI Doc... :-}I now 
have the answer to some of the questions RTFM!!! :-}




From: dene maxwell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 10:00:48 +1200

Hi
I fired up FG this morning to explore the property tree..



From: dene maxwell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 20:09:57 +1200

Hi
I have been exploring what's possible with the AI features of 098a (win32 
Binary). By careful substitution in the Nimitz files, have got Roberto's 
FerryBoat1 to follow a course across the local harbour. A couple of 
questions have arisen about behaviour I don't understand;


- in the ai section or preferences.xml I added my scenario 
(arahunga_demo) [this is the name of the local interisland ferry 
*Arahunga*], for testing purposes I still wanted the nimitz to appear, so 
modified the ai-traffic value to 2 (as only the first entry in ai 
would appear) despite the ai-traffic value being increased, only the 
first entry in ai appears. I created a separate wrapper with an approx 
100m easterly displacement for a second instance of the nimitz (a known 
good sim)...but still only the first entry shows how do I get more 
than 1 AI object to show?


- in the nimitz_demo.xml file is has an entry typecarrier/type, 
changing carrier to anything else kills the AI object. What's the 
significance of the type value and what values can it take?




RTFM

- does each ai object have it's own instance of a property tree? ie if I 
read a lat and long from the property tree; a) will it be the planes or 
the AI object's b) if I have more than one AI object how do I choose 
between them(property tree-wise). h can I access ai-object #2's 
properties from the animations of ai-object #1?




.and found the /ai/models branch, answers this question anyway 
any help on the others would still be appreciated



this all based around 098a features as I would hope the answers will be 
:-} as I can't test solutions that rely on features in versions later than 
098a.


RTFM



Kind regards
:-D ene

PS new distro of NZ (NZWN) objects and animations out soon for those that 
are interested.







still just the question about multiple AI objects... any help including 
*RTFM* would be appreciated (hopefully with links) ... I apologise for 
wasting time, my only excuse is I'm keen :-/


:-D ene

_
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http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html




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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: OT: Crash Tenders

[dene maxwell]

When I was involved in maintaining a telco network Unplanned maintenance 
was the fancy term for it broke so we fixed it ASAP :-)


:- D



From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Re: OT: Crash Tenders
Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 22:35:06 +0200

* dene maxwell -- Tuesday 16 May 2006 22:23:
 I've spent the last four days Googling for holiday weekends that apply 
to

 the rest of the world that I might not have known about!!! ;)

:-)

The sad fact is, that sf.net is completely f*cked up since a few days.
One server outage after the other. Unplanned maintenance etc.

  http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=2352group_id=1

m.


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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: FlightGeardata

[dene maxwell]

Thanks Ron, Yes running 098a win32... doubt i'll *hose* anything important

/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/=http://cvs.flightgear.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/?cvsroot=FlightGear-0.9

from there I navigate the folders as listed
...worked for the model-howto.html

Thanks Ron
:-D ene


From: Ron Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: RE: [Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: 
FlightGeardata

Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 23:56:24 -0600

Start here:
http://cvs.flightgear.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/?cvsroot=FlightGear-0.9

This is the /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/ part of the path.  Then click the
link to data, the link to Docs, the link model-howto.html, then choose
save link target as... (or windows equivelent) on the Download link.

Save this file into %FGROOT%/Docs/model-howto.htm

You can pull the other by going back to the link above and following
down the tree.  Be careful though, playing around manually replacing
files from CVS like this _may_ hose your flightgear system.  Aren't you
still running 0.9.8?

Ron

On Thu, 2006-05-11 at 16:47 +1200, dene maxwell wrote:
 ;-} with great trepidation;

 How do I convert the paths below to URLs ?

 Please be gentle as I have only used CVS by being given direct URLs.

 I have searched the FG site for about an hour to try and find it for 
myself.

 :-D ene


 From: Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: FlightGear 
data

 Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 00:06:28 -0500
 
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 2006-05-01_11:54:14 (fredb)
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Docs/model-howto.html
 
 Add few words on dist-scale and flash animations, clarification on
 reparenting and grouping objects, and how to combine animations
 
 
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 2006-05-01_12:08:32 (fredb)
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Docs/model-howto.html
 
 Add a paragraph on reordering translucent objects with none animation.
 
 
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 2006-05-01_17:41:22 (fredb)
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Docs/model-howto.html
 
 Document conditions, the select animation and introduce personality
 
 
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 2006-05-01_18:00:49 (fredb)
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Docs/model-howto.html
 
 Explain the timed animation
 
 
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 2006-05-02_01:17:52 (curt)
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/AI/thermal_demo.xml
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/sgs233/sgs233-set.xml
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Models/Geometry/thermal_cap.rgb
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Models/Geometry/thermalcap.ac
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Models/Geometry/thermalcap.xml
 
 Dave Culp:
 
 I've got some updates for the soaring scenario that will make for a 
more

 realistic (and fun) experience.  They are:
 
 1)  A cap cloud, which will sit atop each thermal
 2)  A thermal scenario with wide coverage around KSFO, and using cap 
clouds

 3)  A one-line change to AIThermal.cxx to position cap cloud properly
 4)  Schweizer 2-33 set file change to match cloud coverage with thermal
 heights.
 
 files:
 
 1)  data/Models/Geometry/thermalcap.ac
 2)  data/Models/Geometry/thermalcap.xml
 3)  data/Models/Geometry/thermal_cap.rgb
 
 4)  data/AI/thermal_demo.xml
 
 5)  data/Aircraft/sgs233/sgs233-set.xml
 
 6)  source/src/AIModel/AIThermal.cxx
 *** or, if you prefer diffs ***
 7)  aimodel.diff
 
 
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 2006-05-02_01:46:40 (curt)
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/A-10/A-10-set.xml
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/A-10/Nasal/A-10.nas
 
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/A-10/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml

 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/A-10/Systems/A-10-autopilot.xml
 
 Lee Elliott:
 
 here are a bunch of updated files to handle the autopilot
 standards change regarding the use of 'agl-hold' instead of
 'terrain-follow'
 
 
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 2006-05-02_01:48:04 (curt)
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/AN-225/AN-225-set.xml
 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/AN-225/Nasal/AN-225.nas
 
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/AN-225/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml
 
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/AN-225/Systems/AN-225-autopilot.xml
 
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/B-52F/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml

 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/B-52F/Systems/B-52F-autopilot.xml
 
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/BAC-TSR2/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml
 
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/BAC-TSR2/Systems/BAC-TSR2-autopilot.xml

 /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/CanberraBI8/CanberraBI8-set.xml
 /var/cvs/FlightGear

RE: [Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: FlightGear data

[dene maxwell]

;-} with great trepidation;

How do I convert the paths below to URLs ?

Please be gentle as I have only used CVS by being given direct URLs.

I have searched the FG site for about an hour to try and find it for myself.
:-D ene



From: Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: FlightGear data
Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 00:06:28 -0500

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-05-01_11:54:14 (fredb)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Docs/model-howto.html

Add few words on dist-scale and flash animations, clarification on 
reparenting and grouping objects, and how to combine animations



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-05-01_12:08:32 (fredb)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Docs/model-howto.html

Add a paragraph on reordering translucent objects with none animation.


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-05-01_17:41:22 (fredb)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Docs/model-howto.html

Document conditions, the select animation and introduce personality


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-05-01_18:00:49 (fredb)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Docs/model-howto.html

Explain the timed animation


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-05-02_01:17:52 (curt)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/AI/thermal_demo.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/sgs233/sgs233-set.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Models/Geometry/thermal_cap.rgb
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Models/Geometry/thermalcap.ac
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Models/Geometry/thermalcap.xml

Dave Culp:

I've got some updates for the soaring scenario that will make for a more
realistic (and fun) experience.  They are:

1)  A cap cloud, which will sit atop each thermal
2)  A thermal scenario with wide coverage around KSFO, and using cap clouds
3)  A one-line change to AIThermal.cxx to position cap cloud properly
4)  Schweizer 2-33 set file change to match cloud coverage with thermal
heights.

files:

1)  data/Models/Geometry/thermalcap.ac
2)  data/Models/Geometry/thermalcap.xml
3)  data/Models/Geometry/thermal_cap.rgb

4)  data/AI/thermal_demo.xml

5)  data/Aircraft/sgs233/sgs233-set.xml

6)  source/src/AIModel/AIThermal.cxx
*** or, if you prefer diffs ***
7)  aimodel.diff


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-05-02_01:46:40 (curt)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/A-10/A-10-set.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/A-10/Nasal/A-10.nas
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/A-10/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/A-10/Systems/A-10-autopilot.xml

Lee Elliott:

here are a bunch of updated files to handle the autopilot
standards change regarding the use of 'agl-hold' instead of
'terrain-follow'


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-05-02_01:48:04 (curt)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/AN-225/AN-225-set.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/AN-225/Nasal/AN-225.nas
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/AN-225/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/AN-225/Systems/AN-225-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/B-52F/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/B-52F/Systems/B-52F-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/BAC-TSR2/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/BAC-TSR2/Systems/BAC-TSR2-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/CanberraBI8/CanberraBI8-set.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/CanberraBI8/Nasal/CanberraBI8.nas
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/CanberraBI8/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/CanberraBI8/Systems/CanberraBI8-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/MiG-15/Nasal/MiG-15bis.nas
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/MiG-15/Panels/Instruments/autopilot-monitor.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/MiG-15/Panels/Instruments/position-monitor.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/MiG-15/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml


Lee Elliott:

here are a bunch of updated files to handle the autopilot
standards change regarding the use of 'agl-hold' instead of
'terrain-follow'


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
2006-05-02_01:48:05 (curt)
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/MiG-15/Systems/MiG-15bis-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/TU-114/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/TU-114/Systems/TU-114-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/YF-23/Panels/Instruments/text-autopilot.xml
/var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/YF-23/Systems/YF-23-autopilot.xml


Lee Elliott:

here are a bunch of updated files to handle the autopilot
standards change regarding the use of 

Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-14 anyone?

[dene maxwell]

Hi

Don't know if it'll be of any further use to you but my contribution to an 
aircraft I *love*


http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-14.htm

found it while looking for resources on;

Bell UH-1 series Iroquois, better known as the Huey

Cheers
:-D ene



From: flying.toaster [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] F-14 anyone?
Date: Tue,  9 May 2006 07:29:52 +0200 (CEST)




 De : Lee Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Looks like an F-14 :)

Now *those* are good news :o)

 I've got to say that imo this is quite an ambitious project but
 it looks pretty good so far.


From the 3D model perspective it is not more daunting than the Hornet (try 
to find a single straight line on the bug). One reason why I am modelling 
the B (or A+ as you like it) is that from the pilot crew station it is not 
that different from an A. The advantage is that you do have a lot of 
electromechanical instruments instead of MFDs which are often poorly 
documented and awfuly complex.
The bad news is that the F-14A was (to my knowledge) the first aircraft in 
US inventory to feature a PFD and ND-like set of displays even though 
with a limited number of modes.
Since there is no weapon system model to be introduced on flight gear there 
is no need to implement the RIO station (even though that could turn into a 
high speed trip over the network for the would-be RIO. Things maybe 
different if the model is ported to CSP but let's not chew more than we can 
swallow.


 What are you planning to do with the jet-pipe nozzles?  It looks
 as though you have shown different nozzle area settings in the
 two pics.


Good sight indeed. Actually I have already made the animation for the 
petals or turkey feathers (inner and outer) for the nozzle. I will 
definitely need the help from somebody who has ported from blender to FG in 
order to know how to define and export animations because there are quite a 
few of them in this beast.


 In many respects the F-14 design is very similar to that of the
 SU-27 family of aircraft.

True enough, for instance landing gear design (downlocks are located on the 
engine nacelle), poded engines, twin tails, blah, blah.
But then the Su-27 is much more refined in its aerodynamic layout (and 
quite tempting to model with its completely outdated flight avionics 
suite), even though reports seem to indicate that the tomcat *had* (sigh) 
quite amazing high alpha behaviour.


To answer Mathias Fröhlich kind offer, I have a few docs myself (mainly 
Aerofax volume on the Tomcat), and I am using Airliners.net quite 
intensely. Photos are as important as good drawings when you want to go 
into detail. If I get stuck somewhere, I will surely get back to you.






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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Better way to edit XML files

[dene maxwell]

Hi Christian although I might seem a died-in-the-hole windows 
follower... I grew up with CP/M and DOS command-lines... my memory of vi was 
from my discussions with my boss/colleague who was experimenting with 
Unixabout 20 years ago I seem to remember CP/M had a similarly 
obscurely named text editor


No flame war about *nix from me we have a saying in Godzone (New 
Zealand) about one-eyednesshas the eye sight of a Cantebrian Rugby 
supporter ... some comments/by-lines from *nix users remind me of this 
saying :-) But I love rugby so take it all in stride


Anything to improve the breed eh?

Cheers and thanks for your comments
:-D ene



From: Christian Mayer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Better way to edit XML files
Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 00:35:16 +0200

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

dene maxwell schrieb:
 Very interested
 in VI ...IIRC it is *nix based? ...after quick google search, is VIM
 VI iMproved?

 Is there a windows based version of VI(M)? as I would like to see the
 XML syntax feature you mentioned.

http://www.vim.org/

There's also the Windows version. Vim is the successor to vi, so you can
safely use it.

BTW: it's allways important to know the basic vi commands. You might
have to log in remote on a machine and fix something - if at least
something works, vi will also work...

To stop a holy war: The whole world knows that insert favourite editor
the best in the whole mulitverse, and everybody who doesn't believe it
is an idiot.


CU,
Christian
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32)

iD8DBQFEWTAjlhWtxOxWNFcRAuXOAJ91maZV9+AhLkcOk/2/gg1QK3xklQCfV1o1
jYM3gKYgphs/XG9FaiDQ4X0=
=7kMI
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Objects in a location for which no terrain tile exists

[dene maxwell]

Thanks Erik,


Will try to get 099 working first then maybe even 09.10 :-)))

but won't give up on better hardware!!!

cheers mate
:-D ene


From: Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Objects in a location for which no terrain 
tile exists

Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 10:13:14 +0200

dene maxwell wrote:

Hi
High resolution folder ? is this a 09.10 thing as I don't think 099 had 
High/Low resolution textures. If it did they certainly weren't mentioned 
as a possible fix.


This folder has been there forever.
It's located in the data directory of your base package and it's called 
Textures.high. Just rename it to something else.


Erik

--
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http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator


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[Flightgear-devel] Objects in a location for which no terrain tile exists

[dene maxwell]

Hi,

I'm trying to put a couple of off-shore oil platforms in a location that no 
terrain tile exists by creating a new objects folder and stg file (x2). 
Unfortunately they don't appear.


I'm running 098a... can anyone remember if there was such a problem in 098a? 
and hopefully what the solution was (pleeez don't let it be upgrade to 099 
or 09.10 ...my hardware won't support it).


I didn't create a \e170s40\e173s40 folder in the terrain directory...only 
the objects directory.


5786769.stg

contains;

OBJECT_SHARED Models/fgfsdb/oilrig-deck.xml 173.315680 -39.646950 0 0


and

5786777.stg

contains;

OBJECT_SHARED Models/fgfsdb/oilrig-deck.xml 173.449360 -39.556700 0 0


the oilrig-deck.xml file is;

?xml version=1.0?

PropertyList

pathoilrig.ac/path

animation
 typerange/type
 min-m0/min-m
 max-m25000/max-m
/animation

/PropertyList

and the oilrig.ac files is in the same fgfsdb directory

any ideas anyone?

Cheers
:-D ene

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Landcover-DB Mapserver update

[dene maxwell]

Hi Martin, excellent

a couple of other observations

The ICAO selector doesn't like lower-case

The land-cover seems to be offset to the coast line (in the case of NZWN to 
the south)


on the positive...its a very intuative interface and shows how much work 
i've got to do to get even the significant landmarks in the right place. :-}


Thanks again Martin for your efforts

Regards
Dene


From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Landcover-DB Mapserver update
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 22:17:51 + (UTC)

Please enjoy the latest update to the Landcover Mapserver and the
underlying database. Visit:

  http://mapserver.flightgear.org/

  enter the ICAO identifier of your favourite airfield and explore
our landcover data. I _am_ aware of two drawbacks:

1.) There is a rounding error that leaves the location of your airfield
eccentric in the map view,
2.) the exact location of the airfield is not being displayed in the
map.

I'll fix this ASAP.

Regards,
Martin.
--
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--


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RE: [Flightgear-devel] OT: ebay

[dene maxwell]

Curt,
I have avoided posting to the devel list but couldn't resist this )and I 
know you'll take it the right way)


 Drool, Drool

Cheers
:=D ene



From: Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: [Flightgear-devel] OT: ebay
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 20:33:52 -0500

Hey, look what I found on ebay.pl

   http://cgi.ebay.pl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=5881614148

And since I'm off topic anyway, here's the latest chapter in the incredbly 
awsome, don't you wish you were me adventures of Curt Olson.  My life 
isn't quite as exciting as some other flight simulator developers, no fancy 
sports cars, hot rod airplanes, and only one beautiful woman, but it's hard 
to beat a relaxing day at the flying field. :-)


   http://www.flightgear.org/~curt/Models/Current/Hangar9Cub/

Curt.

--
Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt
HumanFIRST Program  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
FlightGear Project  http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit progress

[dene maxwell]

Hi Chris,
I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I don't (and never have) run 
3-d cockpits, I believe my hardware setup is too primative to support them. 
This is not the fault of FG, it is a probelm I am saving up to remedy. You 
are right;


I can't run 3-d cockpits.

I run 098a binary and G099 data/0910 scenery but have tried a number of 
aircraft that have been developed for the 099 binary that won't work or have 
unpredictable behaviour when using the 098a binary.




From: Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:47:26 +1300
dene maxwell wrote:

 Hi Chris,

 agreed, 3-D is not a 099 peculiarity... but I can't run 3-D cockpits
 under my implementation of 098a, I've put this down to hardware
 restrictions and it hasn't been important as there are plenty of
 options in the way of equally enjoyable aircraft.
 Some of the new aircraft are designed to run under FGFS 099 and have to
 have special makes to run under 098a.  Again I reiterate this not
 because they have 3-d cockpits but for other reasons related to the
 changes from 098a to 099 (JBSim 2.0 and the changes to the FDM for
 example)

Sorry, I'm feeling really slow (probably because it's late where I am, and
I should go to sleep).  There was a change in JSBSim configuration file
format in going to JSBSim 2.0; that has caused a lot of aircraft that
haven't yet been updated to not run under FG 0.9.9, and still others that
*have* been updated to not run under earlier versions (although one can
always hang on to an old version, I guess).  But as you note above, that's
separate from the ability to run 3D cockpits.  You're saying you can't run
3d cockpits under 0.9.8a?  Were you able to under other versions?  How does
the version come in, as opposed to I can't run 3d cockpits, period?  Put
another way, you suggested that adding the 3D cockpit wouldn't be popular
with 0.9.8a users:


It is, perhaps, unfortunate that I chose this message to respond to with my 
opinion,


3-D cockpits are not related to my (or any other users) inability to fly 
certain aircraft under 098a to the best of my knowledge.


 A separate A-10-3Dcockpit would make the existing A-10 redundant
 - who would want to fly it without your cockpit?   :)

 Maybe those langishing on 098a? From what I've seen of Alexis
 cockpit, I would love to fly it with his cockpit, as I enjoy the
 A10 FDM. But any new a/c, unless they have a 098a implementation,
 are useless to us.

This is assuming that the FDM will be updated as well. This may be an 
incorrect assumption. As far as I'm aware, upgrading to a 3-d cockpit alone 
will not stop 098a users, who can currently run 3-d cockpits, from flying 
this fantastic a/c and a 3-d cockpit as shown in the screen shots can only 
enhance this experience.

. . .and I'm wondering why the FG version matters when it comes to
adding the 3D cockpit.  Plenty of people used 3D cockpits with 0.9.8a.

The reason I'm looking at this is because you described FG as not
maintaining backward compatibility; for the most part, I don't think
that's fair to FG.  I agree that the JSBSim config file change is an
example of failing to maintain backward compatibility; but I'd claim
that it's not breaking backward compatibility in the way you describe.
Using the rest of the software industry as a guide, the breaking of
backward compatibility there is *not* in 0.9.8a not being able to digest
new aircraft; rather, it's in 0.9.9 not being able to use old aircraft
files as is.


and this is the basis of my concerns for any aircraft upgradeif an 
aircraft is available under to fly an earlier version of FG then a version 
that continues it to be able to be flown under that earlier vesion should 
continue to be available. Ie as a separate aircraft (or build of)


  That's the norm:  new versions of software able to read

files for old versions of software; but not vice-versa, since that
would make adding functionality very difficult.  For example, you can't
use MS Word 2003 .doc files in Word 97; but older .doc files will work
in newer versions of Word OK.  And I don't think it's fair to call the
adding of more functionality, which in turn overtaxes older hardware,
as breaking backward compatibility.  After all, that'll always be a
problem with sophisticated software -- try running Windows XP on
a 486DX machine.


My backward compatibility comments where mainly aimed at MP. Unfortunately 
word processor analogies doesn't really apply as there aren't too mainly 
truely MP applications in the commercial world (ie each user interacting 
with others) Possibly the closest analogy is that of a DB app. If you run a 
newer version of the front end than me on the same DB then I could 
reasonably expect to encounter problems. At best using the old version of a 
front end would cause data inconsistencies.


BUT

If I chose to stay with the old version front end then I could still expect 
the functionality I had enjoyed to still be available. This is not the case

Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit progress

[dene maxwell]

Hi Alexis, How big is the file? as I have a size limit on the Hotmail 
account.
If less than 1Mbyte please send to; [EMAIL PROTECTED] , if bigger 
please send to [EMAIL PROTECTED]


I look forward to trying it out.

Regards
Dene


From: alexis bory [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit progress
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 13:09:47 +0100

Lee Elliott a écrit :

 On Saturday 25 February 2006 17:56, alexis bory wrote:

 I'll do that ASAP, maybe sunday night or monday.

 I can't see any need for a separate folder - add your stuff to the
 A-10, your name and comments to the existing files, especially the
 author tag in the A-10-set.xml file and send it to one of the cvs
 maintainers.

I have furbished a .tgz of A-10 with the actual 3D cockpit, it doesn't
permit yet to disable the added 3D stuff, but why not ;)
(Dene, please, will you try it ?)

I just wonder who/where to send it ?

Alexis



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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Flightgear-devel digest, Vol 1 #544 - 9 msgs

[dene maxwell]

Hi Syd, I am running 098a because my hardware doesn't seem support 099. It 
even struggles with 098a/Atlas and 0.9.10 hardware. Although I really enjoy 
seeing and appreciate the effort that goes into 3-d cockpits and the realism 
they add, i unfortunately don't seem to be able to run them on the existing 
hardware.


My comments seemed to have been taken to mean that I think all progress 
should stop until I (my hardware) manages to catch up. This of course is 
absurd! Both the contention and that I would think like that. You are right, 
and that is all I meant, if new and improved models of planes are developed 
please consider those that are running prior versions. Please do not over 
write the older versions and, if possible,  2-d panels might help a wider 
audience enjoy your efforts.


I have a picture on my wall of your Citation and have downloaded and tried 
to fly it but for reasons unknown to me it suffers the same characteristics 
as the b737; pitching and yawing that gets progressively worse until I can't 
control it and it falls out of the sky. I have put this down to either the 
hardware or my lack of skill.


Thank you for your efforts indeveloping such beautiful aircraft and if 
possible a 2-d panel version might  help me enjoy them.


Kind Regards
=Dene


From: syd  sandy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Flightgear-devel digest, Vol 1 #544 - 9 
msgs

Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:48:24 -0800

On Sunday 26 February 2006 06:10,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 A separate A-10-3Dcockpit would make the existing A-10 redundant
 - who would want to fly it without your cockpit?   :)
 
  Maybe those langishing on 098a? From what I've seen of Alexis cockpit, 
I

  would love to fly it with his cockpit, as I enjoy the A10 FDM. But any
  new a/c, unless they have a 098a implementation, are useless to us.


Hi  Im not sure what you mean by 098a implementation ? I much prefer 3d
cockpit to 2d  I modelled the Citations ,B1900d and DHC2 with 3d
cockpits .
 Would adding 2d panels to them help , for older hardware ?

Personally Ive tried to generate JSBsim files for my aircraft but FG 
crashes

before they load... thats the only major change I can think of..
Syd



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit progress

[dene maxwell]

Martin,

I regret any offence I may have caused you. Given that this not the first 
time I have caused you personal offence. After careful consideration I feel 
it is prudent that I hang up the keyboard on the developer lists, at least 
until such time as I can afford hardware that will allow me to provide valid 
comments in the context of new developments.



Regards
Dene



From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit progress
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:42:50 + (UTC)

dene maxwell wrote:
From: Lee Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

A separate A-10-3Dcockpit would make the existing A-10 redundant
- who would want to fly it without your cockpit?   :)

 Maybe those langishing on 098a? From what I've seen of Alexis cockpit, I
 would love to fly it with his cockpit, as I enjoy the A10 FDM. But any 
new

 a/c, unless they have a 098a implementation, are useless to us.

Typically I'm a person that seeks for harmony so I resisted to post
such words for quite some time, but now the moment has come where I
realize that I definitely feel pissed by such comments like the one
quoted above. How do you _dare_ to imply that every aircraft without a
v098 implementation is useless tu _us_ ?
You can't expect people to cease develompment of new features just
because one or two users still prefer to run an outdated version of the
software. This is real bullshit, not only that, it would leave
Flightear development falling behind until it reaches insignificance.

Martin.
--
 Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are !
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit progress

[dene maxwell]

Hi Lee,



From: Lee Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Saturday 25 February 2006 17:56, alexis bory wrote:
 Lee Elliott a écrit :
  On Friday 24 February 2006 21:11, alexis bory wrote:
  10 more days and I will put a .tgz too :)
 
  How are those folk who like flying the A-10 getting on with
  the current version in cvs?

 OK, Martin said quite the same thing :) I'm currently figuring
 out the best way to prepare a separate folder like
 'A-10-3Dcockpit' and tidy the mess I made everywhere.

 I'd like to upload some thing clean ( shall I upload to
 ftp://ftp.ihg.uni-duisburg.de/FlightGear/incoming/ ? )

 I'll do that ASAP, maybe sunday night or monday.


 Alexis

I can't see any need for a separate folder - add your stuff to
the A-10, your name and comments to the existing files,
especially the author tag in the A-10-set.xml file and send it
to one of the cvs maintainers.

A separate A-10-3Dcockpit would make the existing A-10 redundant
- who would want to fly it without your cockpit?   :)


Maybe those langishing on 098a? From what I've seen of Alexis cockpit, I 
would love to fly it with his cockpit, as I enjoy the A10 FDM. But any new 
a/c, unless they have a 098a implementation, are useless to us.


As a general comment; FGFS is not by philosophy, backwardly compatible...eg 
098a MP  some aircraft.


I takes some getting used to, as most of the sofware I use, maintains 
backward compatibilty.





LeeE


=Dene

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit progress

[dene maxwell]

Hi Chris,

agreed, 3-D is not a 099 peculiarity... but I can't run 3-D cockpits under 
my implementation of 098a, I've put this down to hardware restrictions and 
it hasn't been important as there are plenty of options in the way of 
equally enjoyable aircraft.
Some of the new aircraft are designed to run under FGFS 099 and have to have 
special makes to run under 098a. Again I reiterate this not because they 
have 3-d cockpits but for other reasons related to the changes from 098a to 
099 (JBSim 2.0 and the changes to the FDM for example)


I would hate to see a aircraft that works under 098a and perhaps earlier 
that is enjoyed by many users overwritten and possibliy become 
unavailable.



From: Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:16:51 +1300
dene maxwell wrote:
From: Lee Elliott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I can't see any need for a separate folder - add your stuff to
 the A-10, your name and comments to the existing files,
 especially the author tag in the A-10-set.xml file and send it
 to one of the cvs maintainers.

 A separate A-10-3Dcockpit would make the existing A-10 redundant
 - who would want to fly it without your cockpit?   :)

 Maybe those langishing on 098a? From what I've seen of Alexis cockpit,
 I would love to fly it with his cockpit, as I enjoy the A10 FDM. But any
 new a/c, unless they have a 098a implementation, are useless to us.

 As a general comment; FGFS is not by philosophy, backwardly
 compatible...eg 098a MP  some aircraft.

 I takes some getting used to, as most of the sofware I use, maintains
 backward compatibilty.

What do you mean by an 098a implementation, and what does backward
compatability mean in this context?  What features are implemented in
Alexis' A-10 cockpit that 0.9.8a does not support?

-c


My general comment about backward compatibilty, given the above, should need 
no further explaination. My second reference to 098a was more generally 
aimed at MP, which I have been informed that if  I use this feature under 
098a, I will cause frustration to my self and impair the performance of 
other MP users. Neither of which I wish to do.


Kind Regards
=Dene

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: How to correctly change material emission using condi

[dene maxwell]

Hi Melchior,

These are really interesting comments to me bcause they're exactly what I 
was getting trying to run FGv099 on a PC that098a had run previously.


I didn't change any of the command line that I had used with FGv098a.

Your comments would seem to say though, that something is being entered 
(into the FGv099 commad line) that causes an ABORT


Given this is it worth playing witn the command line that is used for FGv099 
startup (by FGRun) to determine if a command line parameter syntax might 
have changed .

...
or am I simply miles off course? ;-)

=Dene



From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Re: How to correctly change material emission 
using conditions in .xml file?

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 23:49:00 +0100

* Robicd -- Wednesday 22 February 2006 23:43:
 As soon as I use the red-prop instead of red property (and so on
 with green and blue) flightgear crashes with the following error 
message:


It doesn't crash ...


 Unknown exception in the main loop. Aborting...

... but abort, because you entered an invalid property. This has nothing
to do with the material animation. Sigh ...



 But maybe red-prop has to be used with slightly different syntax;

Reading the documentation is *strongly* recommended before you complain.
It's a bug in your XML code.

m.


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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: UDP port into the property tree

[dene maxwell]

From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* dene maxwell -- Friday 17 February 2006 05:53:
 What port number for write ?
 What port number for read? (I prefer confirming protocols)

That's called TCP, then. Yes, that's possible. Just run fgfs with
--telnet=5500, then you can telnet into it and read/write to properties.

  $ fgfs --telnet=5500

Then wait until it's running, and from another terminal window
telnet into it:

  $ telnet localhost 5500
  help
  Valid commands are:

  cd dir   cd to a directory, '..' to move back
  data   switch to raw data mode
  dump   dump current state (in xml)
  get var  show the value of a parameter
  help   show this help message
  ls [dir] list directory
  prompt switch to interactive mode (default)
  pwddisplay your current path
  quit   terminate connection
  run command  run built in command
  set var valset var to a new val
  show var synonym for get

And the whole telnet/socket connection can also be done
by a script. Look into scripts/ dir for examples.



 What format to access each property?

Start withdata
Then read...  get /position/longitude-deg
  get /position/latitude-deg
Or write ...  set /sim/foo 123
and finally   quit


This way you can do about everything. Read/write properties,
execute built-in commands, or transfer arbitrary Nasal code and
let fgfs execute it. You can even transfer whole dialogs and pop
them up in fgfs.

m.


That would suit my needs exactly if;
a) I wanted to do it manually
b) I could start a telnet session from within VB6 (not saying you can't just 
I haven't yet)


was really hoping that it could be treated like an object using UDP. eg
set com1.freq=129.6
set nav1.pri.freq=103.3
set nav1.sec.freq=105.3
set nav1.radial=161
set adf.freq=234

will have to investigate starting a telnet session within VB if no other 
ideas come to pass


Cheers, thanks for the suggestion
=Dene

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: UDP port into the property tree

[dene maxwell]

From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* dene maxwell -- Friday 17 February 2006 10:18:
 That would suit my needs exactly if;
 a) I wanted to do it manually
 b) I could start a telnet session from within VB6 (not saying you can't 
just

 I haven't yet)

Forget about telnet. It's a normal tcp socket connection. I'm
confident that VB6 can do that. Did you look at the examples as
I told you? The c/c++ examples in scripts/example/ don't even
mention telnet.

m.


That was the second part of my question, what would the syntax be under 
UDP... the same?
I understood Telenet was indeed a TCP connection (ie one to one) whereas UPD 
is unsigned and is (at least in the VB control) different to a TCP 
connection in that theoretically it could be many to one. but i'm skating on 
thin ice here so be gentle with me ;-)


=Dene

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: UDP port into the property tree

[dene maxwell]

From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* dene maxwell -- Friday 17 February 2006 10:18:
 That would suit my needs exactly if;
 a) I wanted to do it manually
 b) I could start a telnet session from within VB6 (not saying you can't 
just

 I haven't yet)

Forget about telnet. It's a normal tcp socket connection. I'm
confident that VB6 can do that. Did you look at the examples as
I told you? The c/c++ examples in scripts/example/ don't even
mention telnet.

m.

Melchoir, just looked up MSDN, I quote;
Using the Winsock Control


A WinSock control allows you to connect to a remote machine and exchange 
data using either the User Datagram Protocol (UDP) or the Transmission 
Control Protocol (TCP). Both protocols can be used to create client and 
server applications. Like the Timer control, the WinSock control doesn't 
have a visible interface at run time.


Possible Uses
Create a client application that collects user information before sending it 
to a central server.



Create a server application that functions as a central collection point for 
data from several users.



Create a chat application.
Selecting a Protocol
When using the WinSock control, the first consideration is whether to use 
the TCP or the UDP protocol. The major difference between the two lies in 
their connection state:


The TCP protocol control is a connection-based protocol, and is analogous to 
a telephone — the user must establish a connection before proceeding.



The UDP protocol is a connectionless protocol, and the transaction between 
two computers is like passing a note: a message is sent from one computer to 
another, but there is no explicit connection between the two. Additionally, 
the maximum data size of individual sends is determined by the network.
The nature of the application you are creating will generally determine 
which protocol you select. Here are a few questions that may help you select 
the appropriate protocol:


Will the application require acknowledgment from the server or client when 
data is sent or received? If so, the TCP protocol requires an explicit 
connection before sending or receiving data.



Will the data be extremely large (such as image or sound files)? Once a 
connection has been made, the TCP protocol maintains the connection and 
ensures the integrity of the data. This connection, however, uses more 
computing resources, making it more expensive.



Will the data be sent intermittently, or in one session? For example, if you 
are creating an application that notifies specific computers when certain 
tasks have completed, the UDP protocol may be more appropriate. The UDP 
protocol is also more suited for sending small amounts of data. 


Regards
=Dene

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: UDP port into the property tree

[dene maxwell]

From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]

* dene maxwell -- Friday 17 February 2006 10:50:
 From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Forget about telnet. It's a normal tcp socket connection.

 That was the second part of my question, what would the syntax be under
 UDP... the same?

It would probably be the same. If it were implemented. But as it
doesn't make the least sense, it isn't.

m.


Doesn't make the least sense sorry don't understand this


... Telenet being a application layer protocol requires alot more details as 
to recipient and also alot higher overhead to implement...whereas  UDP being 
a trasport layer protocol is less distinct in is destination and requires 
less overhead to implement.


Obviously interfacing at the different layers requires different levels of 
distinction regardsing destnation etc this would imply a different 
syntax at the very least.


Cheers
=Dene

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Re: UDP port into the property tree

[dene maxwell]

Hi Melchior, I will read the documentation you suggest, thewy undoubtibly 
relay to FGv099 and I'm running FGv098a but I might be able to get enough 
out of them to make a start..

cheers
=Dene



From: Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Re: UDP port into the property tree
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 11:04:02 +0100

* Melchior FRANZ -- Friday 17 February 2006 10:57:
 * dene maxwell -- Friday 17 February 2006 10:50:
  That was the second part of my question, what would the syntax be 
under

  UDP... the same?

 It would probably be the same. If it were implemented. But as it
 doesn't make the least sense, it isn't.

You probably want to read README.protocol, README.IO, README.multiplayer.

m.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: UDP port into the property tree

[dene maxwell]

Hi,
 ... Telenet being a application layer protocol requires alot more 
details as
 to recipient and also alot higher overhead to implement...whereas  UDP 
being
 a trasport layer protocol is less distinct in is destination and 
requires

 less overhead to implement.

I'm not sure what you mean about less distinct in destination, both
TCP connections and UDP packets must go to a specific destination
address (although you can use UDP to a broadcast address on
your local LAN).

Andy


Exactly, TCP is point to point and UDP can be used for broadcast.

The winsock control can do TCP or UDP with equal ease. Although I've only 
had experience using UDP because it's all I've ever needed to use (as per 
MSDN's recommendation that TCP be used for transferring large amounts of 
data and UDP for simple messaging type uses). The issue is the command 
structure that surrounds setting values in the property-tree... This is 
obviously written to cater for manual Telnet sessions.


I was asking if there is access to the lower level that by-passes the need 
to use the command-structure (opening a session  closing a session plus the 
other commands that were in there) and be able to treat the property-tree 
purely as an object that set or get type instructions can be issued to. Not 
that it is difficult to emulate the command-structure using either TCP or 
UDP. was just asking though.


Cheers
=Dene

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[Flightgear-devel] UDP port into the property tree

[dene maxwell]

Hi, I'm developing a (windows based) flight-planner app that will display 
the navaids for the selected destination. I want to be able to give the 
option of writing these navaids (with an internally set mapping) to the 
com1, com2, nav1,nav2  adf areas of FG (FGv098a and above). I have some 
experience with using UDP over a network for a simple local chat app. Having 
watched a number of the recent posts I am beginning to feel there will be a 
way (UDP-port) that I can write to in a given format that will set the 
properties in an aircraft sitting on the end of the runway or at startup 
point externally.


If this is do-able, then;

What port number for write ?
What port number for read? (I prefer confirming protocols)
What format to access each property? (or others, ie a generic addressing 
format)


I am running FGv098a on a separate PC(P4-1.8G,128M RAM, 32M Geforce video) 
running Win Me
I am running Atlas/Flight-Planner on another PC(P1-166M,96M RAM, S3 Trio 
Video) running Win 98SE


Cheers
=Dene

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Seneca model is still under construction

[dene maxwell]

That could fast become one of my fav twin engined prop AC...on looks alone!! 
;-)
Looking forward to flying it. Will it have a version compatible with 
FGv098a?

=Dene



From: Torsten Dreyer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Seneca model is still under construction
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 19:05:00 +0100

Hi,

some of you might remember: I'm working on a Seneca-Model. This is just to
show you, that I am still alive.

The 3D model:
outside view
http://www.t3r.de/fg/seneca/fgfs-screen-012.jpg

another outside view
http://www.t3r.de/fg/seneca/fgfs-screen-011.jpg

panel
http://www.t3r.de/fg/seneca/fgfs-screen-010.jpg
see the pedal's texture? everything here is operative, except the
windshield-heater ;-)

http://www.t3r.de/fg/seneca/fgfs-screen-013.jpg
closeup of the annunciator panel and the gear-transit warning light.

http://www.t3r.de/fg/seneca/fgfs-screen-014.jpg
closeup of the switch-panel

http://www.t3r.de/fg/seneca/fgfs-screen-015.jpg
between front-seats: the console for elevator and rudder-trim, fuel 
selectors

and flap lever.

Work to do and under construction:
- 3d model for King HSI
- 3d piper-style dual 50manifold pressure
- 3d piper-style RPM
- 3d engine-gauges (fuel/oil,CHT,EGT...)
- 3d Autopilot Altimatic IIIc
- textures for the switch-panel

The FDM
I use JSBSim with v2.0 config files. The aerodynamics sections were 
generated
using DATCOM+. The results are impressive - the performance values are 
close

to the original airplane.

Work to do and under construction:
- fine tune the aerodynamics
- implement drag coefficients for open cowl-flaps and landing gear
- supercharge the engines
- get a better propeller, the propC10v I use from the c310 does not seem to
produce enough thrust.

Still a lot to do before this is usable - I keep you informed...

Greetings, Torsten



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] (Real) SR22-GTS Demo Flight

[dene maxwell]

Oh ok... I have heard the nick-name widow-maker...
I remember, is was one of the first model planes I made as a kid
cheers Martin

= Dene




From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] (Real) SR22-GTS Demo Flight
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:31:29 + (UTC)

dene maxwell wrote:
From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
dene maxwell wrote:
 Martin Spott wrote:

 Exactly this is the one which I took for the largest trips:
 
http://www.texelairport.nl/fotogroot2004/D-EFFV.jpg
 
  Martin, Which one did you mean? The foreground or background :-

The one in the background is for married couples and I'm not (yet)
married  ;-)

 hehehe, If I were you i'd be asking every woman I meet to marry me for a
 chance to fly in that baby!!!...

I hope you'll tolerate my sarcasm, but as I've already started this, I
realize that I should explain the meaing:
At least in Germany the Starfighter has a second name that would
translate something like widow-maker - simply because of numerous
crashes with this aircraft. Thus I meant that the pilot should marry
_before_ flying such an aircraft because otherwise his
life-mate/girlfriend doesn't profit from the widow's pension   :-/

Martin.
--
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Help ! on a Run-Time Error !

[dene maxwell]

Thanks for helping me out on that one Fred...I was struggling trying to give 
meaningful help until you guys had your sleep-in... :-)


=Dene



From: Frederic Bouvier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Help ! on a Run-Time Error !
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 08:54:07 +0100

Hi Isao,

here are the relevant part of the error message :

Isao Yamashita wrote :
 freeglut (./fgfs): Unable to create direct context rendering for
 window 'FlightGear'
 This may hurt performance.
 Xlib:  extension XFree86-DRI missing on display :0.0.


You need to install a hardware-accelerated driver for your graphic card.


 Audio initialization failed!
Could not change the current ALC context

It seems you don't have sound neither.


 terminate called after throwing an instance of 'sg_io_exception'
 Aborted
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Maybe starting fgfs with --log-level=info will tell us more. But fix
your hardware/driver problems first.

-Fred




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Airway routing heads up

[dene maxwell]

Hi
I think this link will provide a good start for the information you want as 
it relates to New Zealand and the South Pacific. It has various links to 
more detailed information


http://www.aip.net.nz/pdf/ENR_3.1.pdf

=Dene



From: David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,Wendell Turner 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Airway routing heads up
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:11:27 -0500

On 08/02/06, Wendell Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Do you know if I can download this information somewhere?

 For the US, it is available here:

   
http://www.fly.faa.gov/Products/Coded_Departure_Routes/NFDC_Preferred_Routes_Database/nfdc_preferred_routes_database.html


Most other countries, unfortunately, do not make it available free.


All the best,


David

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] Airway routing heads up

[dene maxwell]

Hi Durk, I don't mean to be rude, and I hope you won't take this the wrong 
way, but the graphic looks like someone has thrown an egg at the earth 
:-


I looking forward to the final results of your work as I'm sure they'll add 
a new reality to FlightGear.  I'm in awe at how some of you guys can write 
visually pleasing software so fast.


Cheers
Dene


From: Durk Talsma [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Airway routing heads up
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 22:22:42 +0100

Hi Guys,

I just finished adding a few more hacks to my good old global
airport/navaid/timezone test program, so that I can now plot the results 
from

FlightGear's airway route tracing algorithm:

http://durktalsma.xs4all.nl/FlightGear/web/35.html

Notice that the routing algorithm is still far from perfect, but I thought 
it

would be fun to share some of the initial experiments with you guys...

Cheers,
Durk


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] A-10 3D cockpit

[dene maxwell]

I just can't wait to show a screenshot:
http://croo.murgl.org/img/very-begining.jpg

It's the very begining of the work, I hope it will be usable by most 
people.


Brilliant!!!... The A10 is my favourite jet AC... the canopy and the start 
of the instrumentation looks great...


... great links for resources on the A10

Thnx Alexis... keep up the great work

=Dene

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] OT: Saturday night movie review

[dene maxwell]

Hi Curt,

Thanks for the review and the pics.

Isn't sharing those sorts of experiences what the flying  (sim or reality) 
is about? It's great hearing about others experiences and even better with 
pics


Cheers
Dene



From: Curtis L. Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
To: FlightGear developers discussions 
flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net

Subject: [Flightgear-devel] OT: Saturday night movie review
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 00:06:31 -0600

I suspect that most of you probably don't care too much about my life 
story, but it's Saturday night, things are slow, I just got back from 
seeing End of the Spear, so it's movie review and story time.


If anyone wants to know where my love of aviation comes from go see this 
movie.  I've never flown in a cub myself, but as a kid I've flown to 
similar remote regions of the amazon jungle in a Helio Super Courier both 
wheeled and floated, and once even in a WWII vintage Catalina.  Even though 
I've lived in the USA for many years now, I still have some jungle blood 
pumping through my veins.  If you want to see some great Piper Super Cub 
footage, and some pretty intense bush flying, it's there in the movie.   
These guys were doing this back in the 50's with no gps, probably few or no 
navaids, and flying over hundreds of miles of raw jungle where if you went 
down, you literally would never be found.   The movie is about missionaries 
and does have some religious undertones, but it doesn't get in your face 
about it.  They don't stop the movie in the middle and pass around an 
offering plate or anything like that. :-)  It tries to be an inspirational 
story about halting endless cycles of violence and finding ways for peace 
to emerge -- something this world could use just a bit more of if you ask 
me.  The movie is a true story, and from what I know and what I've heard, 
and based on what I've seen in my own life, it does a pretty good job of 
being right on.


The movie takes place in Ecuador.  I was born in Peru, one country south of 
there, but the trees, the animals, the rivers, the clouds, the weather, the 
terrain, the houses, the people ... are all very similar between Ecuador 
and Peru, and the movie does an excellent job of capturing an authentic 
view of all of these things.  In 1999 I was able to travel back to Peru for 
a 2 week visit with my wife and brother and parents.  As part of that, my 
wife and I were able to take a small float plane (another helio courier) 
way up to the Alta-Maranon in Northern Peru and spend the night in a 
community that was at least as remote as the one in the movie.  On that 
same trip we got to visit the small village where my crazy parents were 
living when I celebrated my first birthday.  We got to run up and down the 
maranon river in a speed boat--the same river my dad used to run up and 
down back in the day.  I remember once when I was about 5 we were heading 
up some pretty significant rapids in his boat and had a prop strike halfway 
up and broke the shear pin (which is what attaches the prop to the drive 
shaft.)  That was the day I learned my dad could change a shear pin faster 
than a nascar pit crew can change a tire ... well once he dug the 
replacement out of the jar holding all his spare nuts and bolts...


Picture time:

Here's a shot out of the front window of a Helio.  The pilot was attempting 
to sneak us under the cloud layer and over the oncoming ridge ...  however 
as you can see if you look closely, there are places where the clouds 
extend below the ridge.  We snuck through ok, whew!  That wasn't the only 
tight spot we got ourselves in on that trip...


http://www.flightgear.org/~curt/tmp/ridge.jpg

Here's a picture of me when I was a geeky kid, probably about 12 years old. 
 It shows some uncanny parallels to the movie.   Come to think of it, I 
even had a pet bird similar to the one in the movie:


http://www.flightgear.org/~curt/tmp/plane-curt.jpg

So there you go. I'm a pretty odd mix of different cultures and background, 
not really feeling 100% at home anywhere.  I'm a white guy who looks very 
out of place in the jungle, but a jungle boy who feels very out of place in 
frozen Minnesota ... fondly remembering the days of my youth when I 
couldn't have told you the last time I put on a pair of shoes.


Curt.

--
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HumanFIRST Program  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
FlightGear Project  http://www.flightgear.org
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] two scenery ideas

[dene maxwell]

Hi Josh


From: Josh Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  2) ... the current terrain is designed to be seen from above... When
  viewing terrain from the side other factors come into play...your
  stratum idea and the one I put forward where urban terrain is 
presently

  designed from a birds eye view ie roof's, when this is viewed from
 the
  side it should be walls and windows, the roofs always being on the
  uphill side. This implies left and right handed scenery amongst other
  perspective issues.
 

 Personally, I like to fly in mountainous areas, .


 my landings need too much practice to skive off and enjoy the scenery 
g


Yes, takeoffs are optional, landings are mandatory.


 .and I often find myself
 looking sideways at a cliff. Again, I am not talking about flat 
terrain,

 but vertical terrain. It really ruins the illusion when can look
 sideways at an irrigated field that has been stretched up the
 mountainside.

 My point is that perhaps some of the terrain should be designed to be
 viewed from the side, and not above. The trick is teaching terragear to
 determine what that terrain is and assign it a new landcover type: 
cliff.



 .. Agreed; cliff, right hilly urban and left hilly urban. I'm sure
 others will come up with other landcover types.

I'm not sure what you mean by right and left. Keep in mind that this is
not done at run time, but during scenery generation. Whatever terragear
lays down has to look right from every angle.


I'm thinking about side viewed Urban landcover type would consist mainly of 
walls and windows rather than roofs as at present. But if the roofs were put 
to the right of the walls, this would look rediculous out of the left side 
cockpit window (the roofs would be on the down hill side of the walls)


This is important to me because the 16 approach to my local is between two 
hills with steeps sides and both with suburban housing on them. Stretched 
looks strange, upside down would look plain rediculous. (On final you're 
only a hundred or so feet ASL with 200 ft hills either side).


I would also include scree slope, river rapids and waterfall.
There may be a way to do terraced farmland, but that seems like it would
get complicated.


animated water fall? ;-)

Cheers
Dene

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RE: [Flightgear-devel] two scenery ideas

[dene maxwell]

Hi Josh
I posted on this subject a couple of weeks ago there was some discussion 
as to where the scaling of the texture was done Terragear/FlightGear. 
There were two points;


1) ... when viewed from above a 45deg slope will only seem 0.7071 of its 
true length. Hence a stretching issue when viewed from the side.


2) ... the current terrain is designed to be seen from above... When viewing 
terrain from the side other factors come into play...your stratum idea and 
the one I put forward where urban terrain is presently designed from a 
birds eye view ie roof's, when this is viewed from the side it should be 
walls and windows, the roofs always being on the uphill side. This implies 
left and right handed scenery amongst other perspective issues.


Sort of associated with your river issue is the issue of railways and the 
sections of railways that are through tunnels this particularly effects 
me as two of the longest rail tunnels in the southern hemisphere are in my 
local area and it looks silly to have them placed on the surface climbing 
60deg slopes  I have talked to Fred about being able to resolve this in 
FGSD but no firm answer yet.


Cheers
Dene


From: Josh Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I. Currently the terrain textures are UV mapped onto the terrain from
directly above. This creates all sorts of problems in steep terrain. One
of those problems is that cliffs and near cliffs look really bad.
Perhaps if terrain with a slope greater than a certain threshold were to
be mapped from the side with a texture bearing strata this particular
case would start to look right. What would be involved in making
particular terrain types be mapped differently?

II. Another thing I have been thinking about since the new scenery was
released is flattening rivers. The new algorithm certainly makes places
like the Grand Canyon look a lot more like they should, but there are
still a lot of rivers that travel up and down like roller coasters.
Perhaps if once the linear database is in sync with the elevation data
it would be a good idea to tell the algorithm where the rivers are so it
can increase the number of vertecies along the rivers. On the other
hand, maybe simply getting the linear feature data in the same place as
the elevation data will be all that it takes.

A really smart algorithm would also be able to see when it is laying
down a river on a slope and move it to the bottom of the valley. It
might even be able to figure out the registration error between the two
datasets this way and automatically adjust for that.

Josh


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RE: [Flightgear-devel] OT: RC Aircrafts

[dene maxwell]

Oh WOW!!!
thanks for that
Dene



From: Ampere K. Hardraade [EMAIL PROTECTED]



We have seen the RC-B52.  We have also seen the RC-A380.  But this...

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2006-RC_concorde.wmv

Ampere



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] replacing existing objects in fgfsdb

[dene maxwell]

Unfortunately Jon has his FGFSDB email disabledwhat forum do we contact 
him on?

Dene



From: Martin Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Josh Babcock wrote:

 Would it be feasible instead to have an entry in the new object's xml
 file listing some exact coordinates at which any existing objects should
 be removed from the scene-graph? That would be transparent to the user
[...]

 but this solution implements a really dirty hack. The Scenery
Objects Database is supposed to deliver a consistent set of scenery
objects, there's definitely nothing that the user should be expected to
fix elsewhere.
If you know the location(s) of the arbitrary objects that are being
replaced by your contribution, simply tell these to the person who
committed your contribution (Jon in this case). He'll take care for
that by entering certain data that is supposed to handle these
'overrides'. We already did that with all those objects that are
situated in the SFO and Chicaco areas (thanks to Frederic for the great
support).

Cheers,
Martin.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] replacing existing objects in fgfsdb

[dene maxwell]

Yeap you do refer attached or
[Snip]
Name: Jon Stockill

EMail: *disabled*


I'm primarily interested in bulk population of the objects database from 
various data sources - if you have access to such a resource then I'd be 
happy to help you import it.


Models will usually be the types of objects described by the datasets 
mentioned above, although I'll also add the odd landmark from time to time.

[snip]


, unless you want everything to go via Devel mailing list?
Dene


From: Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
dene maxwell wrote:
Unfortunately Jon has his FGFSDB email disabledwhat forum do we 
contact him on?


I do?

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Will my updates be used/useful?

[dene maxwell]

Hi all,
my reading of the situation;
a) No adjustment of the textures takes place at the moment for sloping 
terrain...hence the stretch problem.
b) a cylindrical solution has been proposed(that I don't understand the 
maths of) that may/will have an unacceptable performance hit.
c) x-plane and MSFS have solutions to this problem that look great and don't 
have a performance hit at 50km distance (assumption; at 50km they do have a 
performance hit)

d) we put up with seams with very little performance hit

has anyone actually tested the various options to quantify the performance 
hits and/or the visual effects involved in the various solutions. Objective 
data would certainly be helpful?


or we could all join the flat earth society g

Cheers
Dene


From: Paul Surgeon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sunday 15 January 2006 12:08, Christian Mayer wrote:
 (*) unless you want to get fancy with blending the textures, etc. pp.
 But this will create an big overhead.

Well yes but a half decent scenery engine using texture blending like the 
one

in X-Plane and MSFS would do just fine and they actually run faster than FG
when I increase the visibility to about 50km or greater.

We must be doing something wrong to get the worst of both worlds.

Paul


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