Re: [Gimp-developer] Extrude-filter and lots of triangles
On Sunday 15 August 2004 12:56 am, you wrote: This was an interesting plug-in, the latest one more interesting than the first. Thank you, the current version produces even better results (all sides are now drawn in correct order). Do you intend to have a user Dialogue interface for the plug-in? Yes, now that I have got the basics somewhat right, the following parameters could be set/changed in a dialog: *) height of pyramids / random height? (boolean toggle) *) size of pyramids *) viewing distance *) direction of light vector (later: pyramids/blocks; don't hide partially visible objects) I still need to figure out useful default values for the settings (currently height = 80, size = 50, distance = 250, light vector = constantly changing to test the shading code, in the .c-file on the web it is (1,0,0), but need not be normalized). If you are interested in coding up (parts of) the dialog, just fetch the .c-file from the web and insert the code wherever you see fit, I can merge your changes later with my own latest version. The most appealing part of this task is probably the representation of the light vector - of course, 3 text-boxes each holding an integer would suffice (certainly for the initial version of the plug-in), but you may find an easy way to actually show and let users interactively edit the vector in pseudo-3D. Best regards, Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] starts with 0 or 1?
On Sunday 08 August 2004 10:17 pm, Simon Budig wrote: ordinal numbers start at 1 1 is no ordinal number, you most likely mean 1st? Whether you assume 0 or 1 being the 1st natural number is only a matter of convention and convenience (depending on the subject matter). Most people start to count from 1, so it makes sense to use 1 as label for the 1st object, but it is nevertheless arbitrary, as one could for example also have used the labelling a, b, c, ..., with a denoting the 1st object etc. Hence the number 0 in the ancient version of the IFS Compose plugin was a bug and has been corrected for the Version 1.2. One of the advantages of the current style is that the object with label n is the n-th object (I personally have no idea if the order of the objects actually matters in the case of IfsCompose, from what I see: if at all, not much). The previous mapping was not exactly a bug, but less convenient with respect to this. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Extrude-filter and lots of triangles
On Monday 02 August 2004 11:20 pm, you wrote: Well, the quick-and-dirty way of doing it would be to select a triangle shape and use the GIMP's fill function. :) This is exactly what I want. For this I #include libgimp/gimpselection_pdb.h and #include libgimp/gimpedit_pdb.h Is there a drawback of this method or something else I should know (I found no core plug-in including a header ending _pdb.h, but I guess this is because none uses this)? I'm afraid I don't see why there is a lack of locality here: each triangle to be filled indeed has locality. Of course, if the triangle is sufficiently small, only one tile needs to be involved. Yes, each triangle has locality and of course, the whole effect also has locality (the drawable), but I meant locality with regards to tiles when using a tile iterator: I see no easy method to set up a tile iterator and iterate by some constant amount, because no matter how big I make that amount, there are always cases where triangles will cross a tile intersection. I did not look at the select and fill code, so I am not sure (especially wrt anti-aliasing) if a triangle started on tile A can be continued on tile B without visible jags. When I have the effect working, I will try such things, but it is not that important for now. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Extrude-filter and lots of triangles
On Tuesday 03 August 2004 06:35 pm, Markus Triska wrote: This is exactly what I want. For this I #include libgimp/gimpselection_pdb.h and #include libgimp/gimpedit_pdb.h Can anybody beat this amount of stupidity? I just found out that these files are included via libgimp/gimp.h. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Extrude-filter and lots of triangles
On Tuesday 03 August 2004 05:35 pm, Michael Schumacher wrote: May I suggest that you start from the gimp plug-in template? It help you to get e.g. the build configurations and the i18n of your plug-in right. Thank you for this suggestion. I have successfully used the plug-in template before and will add i18n and so on later. I currently work only on one single file (which can be conveniently compiled using gimptool), but as soon as I add Gtk UI code in a separate file, I will switch to using autotools. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: Extrude-filter and lots of triangles
On Tuesday 03 August 2004 07:08 pm, William Skaggs wrote: Actually I would go about this differently: Start by making a list of all of the triangles, recording their vertices. I have this list available already, so this would be no problem. Then go through the image, and for each pixel, figure out which triangle is visible there, and render its color. I think this would be a lot faster, and it lets you work with a tile iterator as well. Even if I had an easy way to determine the right triangle, this would make anti-aliasing harder because no pixel would know if it is part of an edge or even nearby. My guess is that the advantage of using a tile iterator would not outweigh the additional computing time necessary for the approach you suggest, but I have not tried it yet, and this is why I asked for stats initially. If you start searching from the center of the image, and work outward, then the first triangle you find that overlies the point will be the one that is visible, so the search can be done pretty efficiently. In fact, there may even be a way of calculating which triangle is visible above a given pixel without having to do any searching. The search would be additionally complicated by the fact that you can optionally give the pyramids random heights and modify the viewing distance, so the perspective projection has to be taken into account more explicitly. I therefore don't think that the method you suggest would be easier or faster. I have meanwhile modified the plug-in to use GIMP's selection and fill method (with anti-aliasing enabled). The result now looks better and also rendered quite fast (there's currently a problem on the left side of the pyramids in the horizontal center of the image which I will of course fix): http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0225855/extrude2.png To fill a triangle, I use: gimp_palette_set_foreground ... gimp_free_select gimp_edit_fill Is there a better way to do this? The set_foreground-part changes the colour menu in the user interface, can I avoid this somehow? Why does the call take a pointer - is it safe to modify the variable after the call? Another question: Do I have to call gimp_drawable_flush and gimp_drawable_update at the end of processing? What do these things do? I called them when I worked on the pixel data directly, but I have now commented these calls out as I only use internal GIMP functions and don't copy or modify the pixel regions/arrays directly. And something else: The documentation for gimp-drawable-mask-bounds reads ...returns the whether there Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Extrude-filter and lots of triangles
Hello,
a week or so ago, there was a request on comp.graphics.apps.gimp about the
availability of the PS extrude-filter, used for example in this tutorial:
http://www.voidix.com/cystal.html
I spent a couple of hours working on a GIMP equivalent and I am attaching a
horrible sample picture created with the plug-in as it stands so far (it
currently uses random values for the colours of the pyramids and knows
nothing about anti-aliasing). I'm for now using a quick and terrible hack to
fill the triangles (see attached source if you are curious) and want to ask:
Which method do you recommend to fill lots of triangles from within a
plug-in? Is there a (fast?) Gimp function for this that I can use, maybe
capable of anti-aliasing?
I think there is no obvious way to use tile iterators for this effect (little
spatial locality), I am currently (g|s)etting the whole image at once - would
you recommend that I get and set a region for each triangle I draw or some
better compromise? I have not tried it yet - could it be too slow if there
are very many triangles, or slower than the swapping that could happen when
processing the whole image at once? I'm asking this because I could only
benchmark on my own system, which hardly is representative.
Best regards,
Markus.
External links:
Current version of the plug-in: http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0225855/extrude.c
Horrible picture mentioned: http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0225855/extrude.png
attachment: extrude.png/* The GIMP -- an image manipulation program
* Copyright (C) 1995 Spencer Kimball and Peter Mattis
*
* This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
* it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
* the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
* (at your option) any later version.
*
* This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
* but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
* MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
* GNU General Public License for more details.
*
* You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
* along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
* Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.
*/
/* Plug-in (eventually) implementing Photoshop's Extrude effect
Written by Markus Triska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
August 2nd, 2004 - far from finished, just started working on it */
#include stdio.h
#include stdlib.h
#include libgimp/gimp.h
static void query (void);
static void run(const char*name,
gint nparams,
const GimpParam*param,
gint *nreturn_vals,
GimpParam **return_vals);
static void extrude_render (GimpDrawable *drawable);
struct MemImage {
long bpp;
guchar *data;
gint width, height, halfwidth, halfheight;
} theimage;
typedef struct pyramid_tag {
GimpVector3 triangles[4][3]; /* four triangles */
GimpRGB colours[4];
int order[4];
} Pyramid;
GimpPlugInInfo PLUG_IN_INFO =
{
NULL, /* init_proc */
NULL, /* quit_proc */
query, /* query_proc */
run, /* run_proc */
};
void
lines_intersection(GimpVector2 p1, GimpVector2 p2,
GimpVector2 p3, GimpVector2 p4,
GimpVector2 *intersectionpoint)
{
float a1,b1,c1, /* constants of linear equations */
a2,b2,c2,
det_inv, /* the inverse of the determinant of the coefficient */
m1,m2;/* the slopes of each line */
/* compute slopes, note the kludge for infinity, however, this will
be close enough */
if ((p2.x-p1.x)!=0)
m1 = (p2.y-p1.y)/(p2.x-p1.x);
else
m1 = (float)1e+10; /* close enough to infinity */
if ((p4.x-p3.x)!=0)
m2 = (p4.y-p3.y)/(p4.x-p3.x);
else
m2 = (float)1e+10; /* close enough to infinity */
/* compute constants */
a1 = m1;
a2 = m2;
b1 = -1;
b2 = -1;
c1 = (p1.y-m1*p1.x);
c2 = (p3.y-m2*p3.x);
/* compute the inverse of the determinant */
det_inv = 1/(a1*b2 - a2*b1);
/* use Cramer's rule to compute x and y */
intersectionpoint-x=((b1*c2 - b2*c1)*det_inv);
intersectionpoint-y=((a2*c1 - a1*c2)*det_inv);
}
static void
fill_triangle(struct MemImage memimg, GimpVector2 *points, GimpRGB rgb)
{
GimpVector2 tempvector,intersec1,intersec2;
gint curr_y, sortruns = 0;
if ((points[0].y == points[1].y) (points[1].y == points[2].y)) return;
/*
We enforce the following order on the points:
(a) non-decreasing y coordinates
(b) for y1 == y2, the point with lower x comes first
This leaves 4 types of triangles to handle:
0 10 0 0
/ \ /| |\
| / / \ 1 / | | \ 1
|/ |-\\ | | /
2 1 2 \|22|/
*/
GimpVector2 sortedpoints[3];
sortedpoints[0] = points[0]; sortedpoints[1] = points[1];
sortedpoints[2] = points[2
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp-plugin-template: install
On Friday 23 July 2004 09:04 am, Joseph Heled wrote: Can someone tell me how to configure gimp-plugin-template so that it installs locally(~/gimp-2.0) instead of the global /usr/local? You can type ./configure --help for a list of parameters that influence the installation. Maybe ./configure --prefix=/home/myname/gimp_plugins/ or similar does what you need (install where you have write-access to). Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] compose - decompose nitpicking
On Wednesday 21 July 2004 09:42 am, Sven Neumann wrote: Sure, the plug-in is far from perfect. There's some code in compose.c that tries to guess some useful default values for the layers it preselects. This code could certainly be improved. I am not sure though if it makes sense to attempt to guess the compose mode from the given layer names. It's probably more useful to remember the last used mode (which is what the plug-in does already). For a start, I'm attaching a patch that makes compose use the layers in reverse order (if the image has more than MIN_COMPOSE_LAYERS = 3 layers, otherwise use old behavior). No attempt is currently made to guess the mode. Markus. *** oldcompose.c Wed Jul 21 17:34:11 2004 --- compose.c Wed Jul 21 21:18:52 2004 *** *** 105,110 --- 105,112 /* Maximum number of images to compose */ #define MAX_COMPOSE_IMAGES 4 + /* Minimum number of layers necessary to compose from layers */ + #define MIN_COMPOSE_LAYERS 3 /* Description of a composition */ *** *** 1069,1074 --- 1071,1078 GtkWidget *image; GtkWidget *image_option_menu, *image_menu; GSList*group; + gint32 *layer_list; + gint nlayers; gint j, compose_idx; gboolean run; *** *** 1087,1092 --- 1091,1098 gimp_ui_init (compose, TRUE); + layer_list = gimp_image_get_layers (gimp_drawable_get_image (drawable_ID), nlayers); + dlg = gimp_dialog_new (_(Compose), compose, NULL, 0, gimp_standard_help_func, plug-in-compose, *** *** 1148,1154 GTK_FILL, GTK_FILL, 0, 0); gtk_widget_show (label); ! composeint.select_ID[j] = drawable_ID; composeint.channel_menu[j] = image_option_menu = gtk_option_menu_new (); image_menu = gimp_drawable_menu_new (check_gray, image_menu_callback, --- 1154,1160 GTK_FILL, GTK_FILL, 0, 0); gtk_widget_show (label); ! composeint.select_ID[j] = ((nlayers = MIN_COMPOSE_LAYERS) ? layer_list[nlayers - (j + 1)] : drawable_ID); composeint.channel_menu[j] = image_option_menu = gtk_option_menu_new (); image_menu = gimp_drawable_menu_new (check_gray, image_menu_callback, *** *** 1161,1166 --- 1167,1173 gtk_option_menu_set_menu (GTK_OPTION_MENU (image_option_menu), image_menu); } + g_free (layer_list); /* Set sensitivity of last menu */ gtk_widget_set_sensitive (composeint.channel_menu[3], ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] compose - decompose nitpicking
On Wednesday 21 July 2004 09:20 pm, you wrote: For a start, I'm attaching a patch that makes compose use the layers in reverse order (if the image has more than MIN_COMPOSE_LAYERS = 3 layers, otherwise use old behavior). No attempt is currently made to guess the mode. Sorry, should read ...has *at least* MIN_COMPOSE_LAYERS = 3 layers. This solution is not perfect either, but arguably not worse than before, and in many cases much better. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] filetype plug-in to get type of entity (file/directory)
On Wednesday 21 July 2004 08:07 pm, Kevin Cozens wrote: This is just a taste of the possibilities for scripting in GIMP using Scheme based scripts with Tiny-Fu. What would you like to do today? :-) Thank you for your explanation, Kevin. I was not aware of all the useful extensions you are incorporating into Tiny-Fu. I'm really looking forward to seeing (and implementing?) many scripts that will then become easy and, most of all, possible (it is now only a matter of time until someone implements all the functionality of GIMP in some Scheme script, oh wait - that's Emacs already). By the way: I favour the current convention (used throughout GIMP scripts) of parenthesizing [for example, instead of: (let* ( (dir-stream (open-dir-stream dir)) (file) ) (mycode) ) I write: (let* ((dir-stream (open-dir-stream dir)) (file)) (mycode)) ] because it has become the de-facto standard for Scheme (also used in TinyScheme's init.scm, in Emacs etc.) and it is recommended in all books and tutorials I could find in print and on the web, so apart from the fact that I use this style habitually by now, maybe sticking to it will help both newcomers (being accustomed to the style from the tutorials) and professional Lisp coders (having seen more braces, so to speak) to follow the code. It also saves many lines containing only ) and thereby allows to grasp more code at once. Maybe you also find it advantageous (or even, more beautiful?) if you try it some day (well, it can't hurt to try both for some time and see which one is more appealing). Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selecting new constants for '(file-type file)'?
I want to define some constants related to file type for use in Tiny-Fu. My current thinking is to use FILE_TYPE_FILE (0), FILE_TYPE_DIR (1), and FILE_TYPE_LINK (2). The last one being for *nix systems only. Are there any other file types that should be handled (ie. nodes on *nix systems)? Maybe I have not given this enough thought, but I would opt for FILE_TYPE_NONEXISTANT (although this can hardly be called a file type) so there is some well-defined behaviour if the path to check points nowhere. Also, what happens with access permissions (not readable)? The call should be well-defined in this case, too, so maybe (to cover both cases), there should be some FILE_TYPE_ERROR and other predicates to check for existence/permission. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Adaptive Contrast Enhancement
Then I began to port it and release 0.6.44 that is not fully clean and some points have not been ported yet. So if you have time and enogh knowledge it would help a lot. I have modified the plug-in to compile against GIMP 2.0. You can start it already (Image - Colors - Adaptive Contrast, should maybe be moved to Layer-Colors), but it is not fully functional (for example, OK/Cancel buttons do not work, but the preview does). The changes I made are mostly autotools-related (mainly configure.in). I also removed the intl program from the distribution. I did not modify any internals, in case you want to restructure the plug-in further. You can download the intermediate 0.6.45 version from: http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e0225855/gimp-ace-0.6.45.tar.gz What still needs to be done: The dialog handling (dialog.c) is deprecated. I marked the few lines I had to change to make the plug-in compile with TODO (2 occurrences in dialog.c). You would now use gimp_dialog_run to present the dialog (take for example gimp-2.0.2/plug-ins/common/mblur.c to see how it should be done) and check for GTK_RESPONSE_OK. gimp_ace.c: gimp_plugin_help_register has changed. I don't know what you want to do with the call (make a web-page for the project etc.), or what you should point to (e.g., on-disk HTML documentation). It is commented out for now and also marked with TODO. (There is also another occurrence of TODO, namely in glaceG.c, but I did not add that, so apart from this, grepping for TODO should lead directly to the relevant places.) I think you now have a pretty solid basis to work on (because the necessary infrastructure is there), but please feel free to e-mail me in case you need further assistance with enhancing the plug-in. Good luck. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Adaptive Contrast Enhancement
On Friday 16 July 2004 07:31 am, Martin Weber wrote: I started to port the plugin Adaptive Contrast Enhancement to GIMP-2.0, but because I do not now enough about the internals I was not able to finish the port. I think this plugin is very usefull, so is there anyone who could have a look at and finish the port. Here you find it: http://registry.gimp.org/plugin?id=1438 I once wanted (and still want) to port the plug-in to 2.0 because it was requested in comp.graphics.apps.gimp, but I then saw that there are two different versions (Alex Stark's and yours). Have you made other changes to the plug-in, or did you simply start a port? I'm asking that because people might want to use the original (clean) plug-in if that has become more wide-spread than your version, and if they differ significantly. Also, porting a not fully functional plug-in is quite useless. (P.S.: I hope your version DOES differ from the initial version, because what I see from the sample shots of ace, the results do not look very impressive.) Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: Scheme [was Re: [Gimp-developer] OSCon attendance]
On Thursday 15 July 2004 02:25 pm, Shlomi Fish wrote: Another implementation of Scheme? Aren't the ones in: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/FAQ/#implementations enough? Or isn't any of them better suited as a starting point? Please ask Tom, not me, because he is doing it, or visit his page for more information. His version could have advantages that others lack. Diversity is at most very rarely (never?) a drawback. Besides, I hear some people are implementing already available software just to see what it is like. There surely are thousands of other legitimate reasons why one would implement another version of Scheme. Do you mean that you're all the more for Arch to win? No, I did not. Each of the nominated projects is very good (see Dave's post for some details about the GIMP). The Arch - GIMP relation was a joke, if you don't mind. The fact remains that Tom's Pika Scheme has Unicode support, which TinyScheme lacks, so it could be worth a look. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: Scheme [was Re: [Gimp-developer] OSCon attendance]
On Thursday 15 July 2004 07:12 pm, Shlomi Fish wrote: Anyone can go and write another editor or bug tracker or window manager, if he'd like. That's one of the rights that Liberalism gives you. But if someone wishes to embark on something like that I'd advise him to contribute to an existing project instead of starting a new one. You should have told Tom Lord that he better contribute to one of the many existing versioning systems *before* he started writing Arch. That had probably left GIMP competing solely with Valgrind. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] OSCon attendance
2. Its main developer (Tom Lord) is desperately in need of cash, as he is currently unemployed. (or at least was the last time I checked). Visit http://gnuarch.org/ for more information. While he is de facto unemployed, as you say, he puts it more brightly: --- Are these after hours hobby projects or what? In fact, no -- since early 2002, these projects are what I do. I don't have a day job that subsidizes this work. Although I'm now working on developing some start-up projects, in the meantime... By the way: Tom Lord is also working on a new implementation of Scheme (Pika Scheme), supporting Unicode. Considering that we could use Tom's Pika Scheme instead of TinyScheme, and that he can work on Pika Scheme by living on donations that come from his Arch project, it follows that Arch is without a doubt a proper sub-project of the GIMP. I'm therefore all the more for GIMP to win. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp 2.0.2 and elusive detachabletear-ablemenus
On Tuesday 13 July 2004 06:24 am, Joseph Heled wrote: Your remark about focus policy sent me to the KDE control center - and yes, it is a focus problem of sorts. I was running with focus strictly under mouse (CC/Look Feel/Window Behavior/Focus). When I Change that to Click to Focus, the menu remains until the window focus is lost. Would you do me a favor and see under which policy you run and if you get the same problem if you switch to another policy? (actually all you have to do is to detach a menu and switch focus by clicking on another window). Still, the menu disappears after a focus lose and does not return. This can be either a KDE bug or GTK bug. I have now tried both options (focus strictly under mouse and click to focus) in KDE 3.2.3 without problems: I can tear off menus and they receive focus when under the mouse / I click on them (depending on the setting). They do not disappear magically. In short: works perfectly. I consider it unlikely that we will easily find the exact cause of the problem (could be deep inside Qt), and even if we do, the fix could be non-trivial. Depending on how much you want working tear-off menus (beside other advantages of newer KDE versions), an update of KDE and/or Qt would therefore still seem to be the easiest way to fix the problem. For instance (assuming the worst possible outcome of an attempted KDE update), backing up my entire system and doing a complete re-install would cost me approximately 12 hours, maybe more, but not more than 15 hours. I guess that this is still nothing compared to locating the problem and fixing it, but I could of course be wrong (with both). Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp 2.0.2 and elusive detachable tear-ablemenus
I guess that if no one else has this problem, it is a kde problem. That would also be my guess. I've been using Gimp with KDE 3.[012] for some time, and although I (contrary to you) never ran into anything that I knew should work but didn't, there surely were moments that made me doubt the cleverness of its focus policy. Gnome 2.6.(2, currently) works better for me with regards to that, so I recommend that you give it a shot (if possible) and see if the problem remains, to narrow down the range of imagined possibilities. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: Lists, Arrays and Vectors [was Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Tiny-Fu: A new plug-in for GIMP]
By using vectors I was able to very quickly update the portion of those scripts which used SIOD array functions. I have not changed the Tiny-Fu marshalling code yet but I will do that soon and release a new tarball. Now since there is essentially a one-to-one correspondence between Tiny-Fu's vectors and Script-Fu's arrays, it might be worth considering adding compatibility definitions to init.scm (similar to gimpcompat.h for plug-ins), that would, depending on a certain compatibility-switch in a configuration file (or in init.scm itself, but I don't know if every user will get a copy or you will install the file in /usr/gimpsomething...), define the current array operations and map them to corresponding vector functions. You could then (depending on said switch) also re-define set! to use define if a variable is not defined?. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: Lists, Arrays and Vectors [was Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Tiny-Fu: A new plug-in for GIMP]
Are you sure using lists instead of vectors is the right thing to do? Lists are linked lists and as such accessing the i'th element is O(i). In vectors it is O(1). This can cause an order of complexity increase in handling them. This is true, but not much of a problem, since most scripts only use either the first 1 or 2 elements of arrays or work on typically very short arrays, or want to pass a (short) array to PDB, where there is no difference between list-construction and setting every element of a vector explicitly (the latter possibly being even more inefficient). No, I'm not sure. For the few scripts I looked at (and for ease of implementation), using a list was the easier route to have something functional during the early development stages. Using vectors instead of a simple list would mean the ability to use functions which would provide rough equivalents to the SIOD interpreters array manipulation functions. As I understand it, there are even *exact* equivalents to the current array type. No wonder, since a Lisp vector is a special case of an array (one-dimensional). In Script-Fu, arrays are indeed vectors. I will take a closer look at using vectors. It will simplify the work needed to update old Script-Fu scripts for use with Tiny-Fu. I will start by converting between list and vector. If the approach works well, I will bit the bullet and update the marshalling code to use vectors for the *ARRAY types. I also opt for vector because apart from being the natural Scheme equivalent to PDB's one-dimensional arrays, it makes writing plug-ins easier for people that have no to little practice in converting common for/while loops using tail-recursion, and current scripts would work practically unmodified, without explicit conversions list-vector that would only cost time (with everybody ending up calling these instead of working on lists most of the time). Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: Tiny-Fu: A new plug-in for GIMP
You wrote: Tiny-Fu is a plug-in for the 2.1 (and later) series of the http://www.gimp.org/GIMP. It is essentially a modified version of the Script-Fu plug-in but with some major differences. The main difference is in the Scheme interpreter being used. TinyScheme does not support arrays at the moment - do you plan to implement this feature (i.e., fork TinyScheme), or is such a feature planned by the TinyScheme developers? Otherwise, I can convert scripts that are currently using arrays to use lists instead if you have not already done so. Best regards, Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: Tiny-Fu: A new plug-in for GIMP
I have no objections if you would like to update some of the scripts which use arrays. I would suggest you contact me before hand so I can provide a list of the scripts which need to be updated to avoid duplicating work. These scripts (included with 2.0) currently use arrays: addborder.scm alien-glow-arrow.scm beveled-pattern-arrow.scm blend-anim.scm chrome-it.scm copy-visible.scm crystal-logo.scm grid-system.scm hsv-graph.scm line-nova.scm neon-logo.scm sota-chrome-logo.scm spyrogimp.scm Are any of them already ported? If not, I will change them to not use arrays. Best regards, Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: Tiny-Fu: A new plug-in for GIMP
Are any of them already ported? If not, I will change them to not use arrays. Well, at least the trivial cases (where the arrays are used only inside the script) - there are some PDB functions that use arrays as arguments or as return values, and I don't know what to do with them, for example gimp-cursves-spline and gimp-image-get-layers. There seems to be some correlation between arrays and lists in the PDB, but not too much. Am I right in assuming that a PDB STRINGARRAY is equivalent to a (Scheme) list in Script-Fu? This seems to be handled differently for INTNARRAY, which remains a (nonstandard) Scheme-array. So what it comes down to is: How do I convert a PDB's array (of integers) to a Scheme list in a script and vice versa? Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Script-Fu
Hello, I am currently working on a script-fu to provide previews of the more popular plug-ins with varying parameters. The script takes a list of images (blur.png, iir.png, rle.png, despeckle.png etc.), applies the respective plug-in with varying parameters and writes blur1.png, blur2.png, ..., blur(n).png, iir1.png, iir2.png, ..., iir(m).png etc., along with a file that records which filter/parameters were used for which image, for example: blur1.png: filter Blur Percent 20 Count 5 blur2.png: filter Blur Percent 40 Count 10 ... iir1.png: filter Gaussian Blur (IIR) Radius 3 Horizontal 7 Vertical 5 ... edge.png: filter Edge Amount 2 Wrap Mode SMEAR Algorithm Differential The thing is: The print command ((print test) ) is not working for me in batch-mode (Gimp 2.0.2). It does what it should on the Script-FU console, but shows no output when used like gimp -c -i -d -b '(filter-previews)' '(gimp-quit 0)' A more simple case: When I create this file (testprint.scm) in ~/gimp-2.0/script/: (define (testprint) (print this is a test)) and invoke gimp -c -i -d -b '(testprint)' '(gimp-quit 0)' I get: batch command: executed successfully. (and nothing else) Is this a bug? Another question: Can I - in Gimp-scheme - define the C-equivalent to variables declared static (at global, not procedural, level), that is, variables that are global (i.e., visible in all procedures), but only in a particular file? If not, can I declare variables that are *global*? How? I need this for the mapping of filters --- respective input-files, for example, I could use this: file_for_blur: blur.png file_for_iir: iir.png I know that I can always use define, like (define (blur-file) (set! return blur.png)) but that would not (really?) allow constructs like: file_for_blur: blur.png file_for_blur: blur_changed_my_mind_use_this_instead_but_keep_other_too.png file_for_blur: use_yet_another.png that is, set the variable to a different value on the fly (without the need to comment out anything). Moreover, does there exist reference documentation for basic Gimp-Scheme things (tutorials aside), like string-append etc.? Some standard Lisp-functions don't seem to be implemented (nth for example) Should I add some? Which ones? Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Script-Fu
(define (blur-file) (set! return blur.png)) but that would not (really?) allow constructs like: file_for_blur: blur.png file_for_blur: blur_changed_my_mind_use_this_instead_but_keep_other_too.png file_for_blur: use_yet_another.png You mean like (define blur-file blur.png)? Yes exactly - I do not know how this would turn out in Gimp-Scheme (and especially of course in versions to come): (define blur-file blur.png) (define blur-file otherblur.png) Different versions of Scheme handle this differently. I do not know if this is proper Gimp-scheme (re-defining a defined variable), or if one would have to use set! for the second definition/assignment. Incidently, no script-fu seems to make use of global variables, only of local let* - environments. Perhaps (define ...) is equivalent to (set! ...) here? Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Script-Fu
I don't know officially, but it seems that with any definition of define, you can define it first, and then set! it everywhere else. Even if your first define is (define blur-file '()) Yes, and what's more, one can also use set! alone (without a preceding define). I do not know if this is common practice in Scheme implementations nor if this will change when switching to Guile. Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: c++ with plugin-template
Christoph Lutz wrote: As I didn't know how to set up all the automake/autoconfigure-stuff, I temporary simply changed the CC-Variable in the plugin/src/Makefile, but this is insufficient, I guess... Could you please give me some hints, how to change the compiler in the plugin-templates configure/automake-files, so that I could pack and release my plugin? The key file here is configure.in. It contains the line AC_PROG_CC which will make the (resulting) configure script search for a C compiler. gcc is indeed the C compiler (dispite the somewhat misleading name), while the C++ compiler is called g++. I have recently worked with the gimp-plugin-template myself and found it quite useful, so feel free to e-mail me if you have questions, or take a look at the magiceye plug-in (in the registry) to see how I have done it. Best regards, Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: c++ with plugin-template
On Thursday 01 July 2004 12:23 am, you wrote: Right. If a C++ compiler is supposed to be used, you will have to use AC_PROG_CXX. See also While we are at it: I noticed that configure.in lacks the typical AC_LANG_C line often used in conjunction with AC_PROG_CC to perform additional tests of the C compiler. Adding it might cause autoconf to work around some obscure errors of broken compilers (perhaps broken optimizations etc.). Best regards, Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Baby photos (was: Gimp 2.0)
I can think of a lot of reasons for Dave to a) remove the image and b) keep the image removed. This discussion being the first one (even without considering the positions exchanged [1]). I certainly won't ask him to put it up again because this is of no vital interest to me. I know that it was me who triggered that. Why can't you believe this? I hope Dave will clarify this on the list so that you can take it for granted. What a pity. This could have been an interesting discussion. One of the reasons that I will not discuss this with you is that I feel you are more interested in discussing per se than what happens to the baby and the photo. Discussing is of no interest to me with regards to this picture. I felt it should not be on the site, for the baby's sake, and Dave felt so, too. There is no way for me to make you feel so, too, because you are so attached to the wording I choose, and to the structure of my arguments. To convince Dave, I needed no arguments, and no structure, but a short message sufficed. That Dave removed his own picture should be enough argument for you. This is not getting too hot for me, but I consider it a waste of time to discuss with persons of your mindset. I knew that Dave would not be that kind of person, and that is why I mailed him privately. I never wanted to discuss this on the Gimp developer's list. All I can do know is not defend myself, but to clarify the wording of the private mail I sent to Dave for all you others, who never were intended to see it. Best regards, Markus Triska. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] RE: Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 19, Issue 24
This is news to me! where did Jesus say that? He might be refering to Luke 18, 15-17. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Baby photos (was: Gimp 2.0)
Dear Marc, Please consider that millions of people have heard about this case on TV, but so far you are the only person who thinks of this case when looking at baby pictures (there is no connection to babies in the dutroux case at all...), at least the only person on this list, while many others have made it clear to you that they don't think in tis strange way, including Dave. I did not talk about baby pictures, but about the particular picture that was in the screen-shots section. I have asked Dave if he had any other pictures of his (dressed) son available, and I offered my help in improving the photographs as best as I can. Also, I have proof that I am not the only person that considered it a bad idea to have a picture of an apparently naked, wet child in the screen-shots section of a program that is used not only in the US or Europe, but world-wide. I want to remind you that there are countries on this world that consider an unveiled woman offensive, let alone a naked woman, or child, and not everyone will post his thoughts about this matter on the list, perhaps mainly due to language differences, and neither would have I, because this is not a technical matter that you can discuss, like say, if we would use C++ or some higher level language for the Gimp core code, or when we should get rid of deprecated Gtk implementations. Those are the things that you can discuss, because they are intellectually, not emotionally justifiable, and do not depend on your culture. Also, there is no choosing a side, or changing your mind by arguments in this issue, as Simon said, and this is why I mailed Dave, not you, and not to this list, because I expected he would understand my opinion immediately. What's also not normal is that you continously insist that you know that Dave removed the picture because he follows your reasoning, despite there is evidence to the contrary. Dave clearly stated that he took away the picture as a direct consequence of my mail. In his own words: this discussion (or rather, the original mail) made me see a popular website's place in the internet slightly differently. He has no problem with baby photos, and neither have I, but you might understand that there is some kind of strong correlation between my mail and him taking the picture away, or you are the one who is trolling. At the moment, you are just trolling, nothing more. And you surely know that and still go on with your abuse of this case, which is probably the reason why so many people on this list are upset. Shame on you. I again apologize for all the confusion and trouble I have caused on this list, please forgive me. I never meant to send my thoughts about the picture to a developer's list. Also, I have clearly stated in an earlier message that I want to end now this discussion that I did not want to start in the first place, and especially not on this place. It is posts like yours that keep the words rolling, because they attack me personally, saying I am not normal, have a smutty mind, or accusing me of other things, like trolling or abusing. You might understand that I can not let that stand as it is. Regards, Markus Triska. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Gimp 2.0
Dear Carol! this is the part where you get embarrassed about the weird forwarding and spamming. I am sorry for the inconvenience that I am causing you all as a new user of the mailing list (and, indeed, ANY mailing list). When I answered your mail, I did not know that you had also sent it to the list, because I did not look at the mail addresses it was coming from, clicked Reply (instead of Reply all), and the result was that only you received my answer. When I found out that you posted that on the list, I forwarded the mail to the list, too. I see nothing weird about this, and I have a different idea of spamming. The result would have been approximately the same if I had used the CC feature. i am curious as to what news markus follows and software he uses and plug-ins that came with the software. what country and the over all ideas of his teachers and parents. Maybe in 50 years from now, you can buy my biography if you are interested, which will perhaps contain a time-line of how my habits and opinions changed over time. By now, I have no intention to make my habits public. I think you will understand that I will not publicly announce the ideas of my teachers, relatives and other persons I am associated with (even if they are or were not alive any more, and even if they do or would coincide with my own), for several reasons, the simplest maybe being that they are nobody else's business. About the only hint about the programs I use that I ever gave in a program documentation was that I used SUSE Linux, and even that has changed by now, so in hindsight, this information was of no use to anyone, and I don't see the point. Of course, if you are interested in how I can accomplish this and that with some programs, maybe I can help you. In fact, I will maybe write a tutorial for the Gimp in the future, because I think I have achieved now some skill in the area of photo enhancing. i just see a different image totally. is it software? is it because i try to have no interest in seeing bad things (unless i have a solution)? is it because i am a product of the evil american culture that i cannot see anything bad about this image? while i appreciate someone else being the new person to really abuse the mail lists (try cc and one time multiple mailings). ((check to see if it is sent to the list or not)). (((forgive me when i screw up, sometimes -- all i get is mail list mail))) and send the email carefully. more carefully than me. I do think that I send mail carefully. Do not assume that the possibility that the boy was Dave's child had not occurred to me before. However, I see no reason why this should change anything, except maybe giving hints to the explanation of Dave's reaction, and maybe not. I would have sent my mail to Dave also if it was not his boy, but for example my own daughter or son. i am so confused about the problem with the image. You do not have to be confused any more, the pic you are talking about is gone. If I had known that my initial mail to Dave would appear on the list, too, I would have phrased it differently so that everyone can follow my reasons. Given that I wanted to mail Dave directly, whose mind and thoughts I knew a bit from the mailing list, I formulated it as I saw fit to make myself understood by HIM, not by anyone else. As I see it, my mail was enough for him to make him understand what I wanted to communicate. That having said, I want to end now this discussion which I did not want to happen and would not have started myself in the first place. This is the Gimp developer list, not a psychotherapy session. Best regards, Markus Triska. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Baby photos (was: Gimp 2.0)
Dear Branko! Dave: + when I read this mail, I got defensive a bit - the thought + that someone thought the photo could be viewed sexually kind + of turned my stomach. So I took it down. In other words, it's not your point, but the fact that you raised it, that you could think of such a gruesome thing, that made Dave take the picture down. As I stated before, the gruesome thing you mention was not as far fetched as you seem to imply, if you follow European news these days. I hope that neither Dave nor you nor anyone else thinks that I *myself* found the picture arousing, and don't ever half-accuse me of this again. My intention was exactly to bring to Dave's attention that there could be people that think of it that way, and I think that this was exactly what made Dave take the picture down, so I don't understand how you can say it was not my point that had this effect. Unfortunately, there is no long-term hiding in religion nor is it safe to stay in your dark ages. Abusing children for disgusting pictures IS a problem today, which we can not neglect or deny, and saying that children are without sin certainly does not improve the situation or makes abusers go away, even if it is or were true. Reading all the mails that I have received in private today, I conjecture that I was not the only person feeling that there was something wrong to show the picture as it was, even if they do not stand up and say it in public. Your morals have nothing to do with it; if they had, Dave would probably not have taken the picture in the first place, let alone posted it. This might or may not be true, I do not know. I can imagine parents that think of their children as so natural and lovely that they really don't think about such issues, unless they are told to do so. Also, you did not quote Dave's words that immediately preceded your quote, which I consider essential to his message: ... I didn't think of any negative connotations, but indeed I wasn't thinking that way. I can only again point out that if I had known that Dave would forward my initial mail to a public mailing list, I would have come up with different reasons and phrasing. The mail was intended to be read by Dave, not you, nor anyone else. All in all, I don't know what you want from me by writing such a post to the list. You think I am abusing children? No, I don't. That I found the picture arousing? No, I did not. You think I should not have mailed Dave? None of your business. You think the picture should stay? Go make a picture of yourself, naked, and put it on the list, but keep your children safe. Dave has decided to replace the picture with something more neutral, and I think that was OK. Best regards, Markus Triska. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Gimp 2.0
Dear Carol! i dunno. he got everything he asked for. it did not even make sense to me and he got it. Oh yeah, and I got so much more too, thank you very much. this human being should be on the gimp users list. it is polite and nice there. i have a bad opinion of someone who so easily gets to change things on an established list. if you want a friendly mail list about gimp, gimp-user list totally fullfills this. is this person with the smutty mind a developer? Carol, maybe the hint I provided before was to weak for you to notice. I did not expect *you* to understand my points. That is why I mailed Dave, and not you, and he did. I am sorry that you have a bad opinion about me, and that maybe you think I have a smutty mind. Maybe if I had mailed Dave at a different point in time, catching him in a different mood, things would have turned up more brightly. I am very sad that I get to know you all when you are accusing me of the worst things one can think of. Again, I apologize for all the inconvenience and chaos that my private mail to Dave has caused. Best regards, Markus Triska. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Baby photos (was: Gimp 2.0)
Dear Simon! You have not yet explained what exactly makes you think of Dutroux when looking at the Photo and what exactly you think has been gained by removing that image in that context. The Dutroux connection is especially important, since this is a typical Totschlagargument [1] It rather was the other way around. Only because I continuously read and hear about this alleged criminal on the media did I think about this context when looking at the photo. You can take that remark out of my initial mail, and the point it raised would still be valid. In all of your mails you kept the distinction between these three issues blurry and unless you try to keep these issues separate and calmly argue about this every further discussion is pointless. I have no interest in explaining my point of view to each and every individual on this list in detail until they all get it, also because many of them have apparently already decided that they never will, and also because I do not know you at all. I think that the persons here either are getting my opinion right from the start, or they won't ever. I sent word to Dave privately because I somehow knew he would be of the first type, and this is why I chose him, and not anyone else. I would never have sent this to the list myself, nor to any other person from the list, because I knew it would be asking for trouble. This is perhaps also due to the fact that only those persons that can NOT follow my arguments write here again and again, while the persons that share my opinion do not stand up publicly, but keep sending me private mails with the notice that I must not forward them to the list under any circumstances, as if this was the only thing I have in mind, or if I had ever done so. As I stated in an earlier message, Dave has now removed the photograph in question, and I consider the issue resolved. I therefore have no interest to explain my point of view any deeper. Maybe Dave can explain to you why he did so, and you can then try convincing him that he put the picture back, if this is what you want, but please keep me out of that. Best regards, Markus Triska. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Gimp 2.0
Dear Dave! Sorry if this message appears somewhere outside the original thread - I could not figure out how to use the list properly, although I really tried this time. Anyway - people kind of missed the whole point of me sending that to the list... this person mailed me off-list because he saw me as someone safe to talk to. That's not a nice way to have things on our mailing list. What can we do to change that? As a first step, you could treat private mails as such. For me, this would have been enough. Best regards, Markus Triska. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Gimp 2.0
Again, I am copying the response I sent to Carol a few moments ago verbatim. -- Dear Carol! i have looked at the adobe photoshop web site perhaps 4 times. for information to help my friend run her photoshop le. Meanwhile, I have tried too, and it was indeed a bit hard to get to screenshots. can you just explain what the differences are and what should matter to us? Yeah, they show no naked persons, just as I expected. In contrast, the Gimp site was doing so until recently. Fortunately, this has now changed. Best regards, Markus. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Gimp 2.0
Hello, I noticed this moment that Carol wrote this also to the mailing list. Please excuse the confusion, but until recently, it was not necessary for me to be subscribed to the list, so I'm not sure if this mail is attached to the right thread. I am copying the reply that I wrote to Carol verbatim - it is a pretty safe bet to assume that if I had written the response to be read by all list members, I would have phrased many things of the initial post differently. This mail hopefully also sheds some light on what I meant with safe. -- Dear Carol! Thank you for your message. i dont blame people for being intimidated. When I said it would be safe to ask Dave, I meant he very probably would not come up with the don't ask me, I'm a developer-argument that one can (rightfully) expect from a developer. I understand very well the difference between developing and FAQ and documentation teams. It is just that the only list I follow is the developer list, and David seemed to belong at least with one leg (if not with two) to the documentation team too, so it seemed natural for me to approach him instead of, say, Sven. I understand also that my issues have nothing to do with Gimp development, and THEREFORE I did not send them to the list myself. okay, a few more than three steps, but this has not failed to work since gimp-1.0 and the options have never moved. Thank you. what i saw when i saw the photo of this baby was a dork who had a good relationship with a beautiful woman. those are the images i saw and the man i came to know while working on gimp development. Apparently, Dave has understood my point and has taken the photo off the web. That was in my opinion the only correct behaviour. I think we can agree that we would not show a naked woman in a Gimp advertisement, even if it is perfectly natural. So why would you show a naked baby? I think one should not do this. On a side note, displaying a static photograph does not do justice to the Gimp's functionaliy either. I can use kview for that. Let us both have a look at Adobe's screenshot section of photoshop. I bet they are pretty proud to show off with features and stuff that their PRODUCT is able to provide. Best regards, Markus Triska. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Gimp 2.0
OK, and this is another reply I had meanwhile sent (to Sven, in this case), and I hope the mailing list agent will know where it fits in - apparently some parsing of the quoted text is done to make sure that the thread hierarchy is maintained. Sorry if this is getting a bit redundant, but I hope I have now made my point clear. Best regards, Markus Triska. --- It's ridiculous to say that putting such a picture on the internet will cause children to be abused For the record, I want to note that I did not say that, as you seem to imply in your reply. The picture is in no way offensive and anyone who draws a relation to the Dutroux tragedy is either sick himself or overly cautious. I think we can agree that most of us rather would not have a screen-shot of an adult woman or man, half-naked like this, in the screen-shots section, albeit professional models who get paid for their job. I do not know why you make a difference for children. If I had not mailed Dave, how long would the photo still be around? Maybe his children will be thankful some day, when they understand what was going on, that not everyone has a photo of them with no clothes on. Given that Dave seems to have understood my point and removed the picture, I consider the issue resolved. I want to thank you again for your efforts. As far as I can tell, you are doing a great job. Best regards, Markus Triska. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Gimp 2.0
Do you have problems with posting to the list in general (because there is someone or something you cinsider unsafe) or just because of the rather difficult topic? No, as I outlined in a previous mail, I used safe solely to indicate that I assumed Dave would have no objections to be asked about some apparently simple usability issue (where, in contrast, a normal developer could have - rightfully - pointed me to some other place). I deducted this from all the posts in which Dave stated that developers should also answer questions, and that he himself in fact did and had done so. I can only emphasize again that I know very well the difference between a development and a FAQ and documentation team, and I would never have molested Dave with my question were it not for him pointing out that he had no problem with that and in a sense begging for mail. It certainly has nothing to do with the mailing list (this is only how I came to know Dave). If Dave would not exist, or would not post such things to the developer's list, I would have sent the question to some person working on the Wiki, or to the Gimp-User-mailing list, or somewhere else, but never to this place (which I, in fact, have not). It just happens that the developer's list is the only one I follow, and thus it seemed natural for me to contact Dave, and the quickest way to get a useful reply. I did not know that it would turn out this complicated and chaotic. I am sorry that I have caused you so much trouble and confusion. Best regards, Markus Triska. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Gimp 2.0
Because that's apples to bananas. Naked woman are sexually attractive to normal people. and babies are not.(*) This obviously can not be the primary reason why we would not show naked women. The reason, as I understand it, is that the depicted persons easily lose their dignity when they are shown naked. That would be a different thing for an artistic, professional picture. For example, I can remember an advertisment of an afro-american, muscular man, naked, holding a white, naked baby. I have no problem with that, and it would make an excellent screen-shot, if not particularly useful to point out Gimp's features (which you should strive to accomplish). Having a poorly lit, amateur photograph showing a naked child that was presumably just having a bath is to my mind a different story. As I stated in a previous mail, If I had not mailed Dave, how long would the photo still have been around? Maybe his children will be thankful some day, when they understand what was going on, that not everyone has a photo of them with no clothes on. We need not delve further into those subjects (although I notice that you raise interesting points), because Dave has decided to take the photo off the web. I think that was a good move, and I'm done with that. Hinting that babies are objects of sexual desire is becoming more and more commonplace nowadays, in certain cultures at least (mostly, but not limited to, the us). I do not believe that this is a good direction. I live outside the US, and the first thing coming to my mind when I saw the photo was the alleged criminal. I had no choice of what I wanted to come to my mind, so it was this, of which all newspapers here tell these days. I think that it is unreasonable to assume I am the only person who reacted this way. If I had known that Dave would forward my mail to the list, I would have thought of other reasons that people outside Europe could easily follow. Apparently, Dave could. I think this is what Sven wanted to hint at with his comment (that such people were sick). It is not the right thing to do to make yourself a slave of this babies are sexually attractive thinking, which is, as you hopefully agree, not normal. If you don't, then photos of babies are just that, and should evoke feelings of joy, especially for the parents := Yes, absolutely. And on a side note, I wish Dave the best for his son and everything, and hope he makes many pictures of him to keep, and to show him later. But he does not have to place those in the Gimp screen shots section, that's it. I voiced my opinion on this mainly to not leave Dave in a kind of limbo, as if he did something wrong. What he did was not wrong at all. Again, I have to point out that I never intended to send the mail that Dave quoted to the list - I only thought that he would understand the issues I raised, and right I was. Best regards, Markus Triska. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
