Looks like a comfy ride! I remember reading a tidbit on how riv lengthens
their head tubes on stepthrus so the joints of the down tube and top tube
aren’t so congested. That bike illustrates the congestion point! Not sure
if it’s solely for aesthetics or if there’s more to it…
On Thursday, June
Wow, that's awesome. In a recent thread, i put together a quick photo
montage showing what I imagined to be the history and lineage of the
"swoop-tube" idea, but I left out the "no idea is new" example.
On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 10:01:27 AM UTC-6 John Johnson wrote:
> Seen in Paris near St
Sad to hear it, but not unexpected given the supply chain crisis.
On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 12:22 PM Jason Fuller wrote:
> Been a good while since an update, so here is a bad one: the ETA on
> Charlies was pushed from Jan 2022 to "on hold indefinitely". Just no room
> in the production schedule
I've said many times that I wish my Hunqapillar was tig welded, powder
coated a single neutral color and half the price.
Colored head-tubes and splashy decals aren't my thing and are something I
have to tolerate since nobody else* makes what I want in a bike.
I do like the attention to detai
Tom, that was done years ago with the Bleriot.
On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 4:17 PM Tom Wyland wrote:
> If I was Riv President for a day, I would ponder if adding a lower-cost
> all-rounder bike would cut into sales of the other models. Clem and
> Roadini (tigged lower-cost frames) are on the rough
There have indeed been some cool collaboration frames, though I feel like
they all suffer from the same sales-related issue as Rivs themselves often
have: they're ahead of their time. Rivendells from 5 or 10 years ago would
fly off the shelves today compared to their sales at the time, because
Grant has designed more than a few bikes for other companies. The one I can
think of off the top of my head is the Brooklyn Bike Company Driggs. But I know
what you’re saying…there’s something about that Rivendell name on the bike.
Funny enough, I recall that back in 1994 or so, when I bought my
If I was Riv President for a day, I would ponder if adding a lower-cost
all-rounder bike would cut into sales of the other models. Clem and
Roadini (tigged lower-cost frames) are on the rough terrain and road ends
of the spectrum. The premium equivalents are the Hillibikes and AHH. All
of t
Been a good while since an update, so here is a bad one: the ETA on
Charlies was pushed from Jan 2022 to "on hold indefinitely". Just no room
in the production schedule / material procurement to make a new model
happen in the scheduled future. This is per James at Riv - sounds highly
likely
I haven't heard evidence of more than the two prototypes (though I'm far
from "in the know" as well), the one which is silver-ish might be the color
but I don't see any blue in it..
Interesting that that page notes the frameset, since I was last told they
would only be offered as completes. Pe
Thanks. I did come across that page, but I'd like to see a photo. Anyone?
On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 9:02 AM Chase Granoff
wrote:
> Hi Patrick,
>
> I came across it this morning... just searched Gallop on the Riv site and
> found the link. No photos. Just specs and such.
>
> Strange... the link shou
Hi Patrick,
I came across it this morning... just searched Gallop on the Riv site and
found the link. No photos. Just specs and such.
Strange... the link should still work (it is for me). Try this:
https://www.rivbike.com/products/charlie-h-gallop-frame-fork
Chase
On Saturday, November 7, 20
Can anyone post a photo or a link to a photo? I missed this one. When did
it appear?
Googling brings up a 404 on the Riv site and misc cartoon fish and people
photos elsewhere.
On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 8:36 AM Chase Granoff
wrote:
> This might be old news.. but I was looking for something on the
This might be old news.. but I was looking for something on the Riv site
and came across this:
https://www.rivbike.com/products/charlie-h-gallop-frame-fork?_pos=10&_sid=deda5f283&_ss=r
On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:24:49 AM UTC-4 Dorothy C wrote:
> Eamon, on Instagram last week when Will’
Eamon, on Instagram last week when Will’s new Susie was pictured, in the
comment there was a summary of ETA’s on frames, snipped from the
newsletter.
When someone asked about any plans for the Roadini he said “Not in the
foreseeable future. Of course, that does not mean “forever.”
On Friday,
Is the Roadini discontinued, and the Charlie H Gallop it’s replacement? If so,
I guess I understand why they may have chosen to go with caliper brakes over
canti/v-brakes. I suppose I’m not 100% against the change. It is an interesting
bike either way.
Eamon
Seattle
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Zem, I did not ride it that day. In normal times I'd be comfortable
requesting a ride and being the most awesome bunch, Riv folks would have
set it up for me. This stop was supposed to be for a socially-distanced
order pickup. I was glad they hung out with me and chatted briefly and
pulled
Ash - any ride quality impressions relative to the Roadini or other Riv
models?
On Sunday, September 20, 2020 at 6:19:32 PM UTC-4 Ash wrote:
> Recently I had a chance to look at CGH prototype in person at WHQ. A
> worthy successor to the Roadini. I really liked what I saw.Was ready
> to
Recently I had a chance to look at CGH prototype in person at WHQ. A
worthy successor to the Roadini. I really liked what I saw.Was ready
to put the money down if they would take it!
I'd have replaced those mini V-brakes with the upcoming Cantis. But if CHG
comes with no canti studs,
Dang, I really wanted to get one of these, and hoped to be gainfully employed
again by the time they are out. I’m no really interested anymore if it’s going
to be made for long reach calipers. I don’t understand that change, but wish
them well. Being able to run cantis was what was sealing the d
I had a hard time getting all the parts I needed for a recent build. I
would buy what you can afford now just in case.
On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 10:11 PM Mark Roland
wrote:
> You should start buying them 6 months ago. I tried telling my local bike
> shop guy that (6 months ago), to start stockp
You should start buying them 6 months ago. I tried telling my local bike
shop guy that (6 months ago), to start stockpiling the basicsnope.
He's out of almost everything, though he did manage to score some inner
tubes from his Jamis dealer. He can't even get bottom brackets from the
major
I did not see that much info posted. What are the sizes?
On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 8:18:23 PM UTC-4 John G. wrote:
> The September email update teases a new bike: the Charlie H Gallop.
> PREDICTIONS! GO!
>
> Mine: MIT lugged road-ish bike with Cantis. 650B even at the largest size.
I saw the timeline, Jason, and was disappointed on your behalf. It seemed like
it would arrive so much sooner.
It WAS encouraging, however, to see that Riv has several upcoming orders. If
the timeline is right, I only have to wait 2 more months for a Platypus. Which
is nothing since I’ve been
As the self-appointed CHG messenger bird:
- Timeline as been pushed out (it seems) to next summer for delivery.
Pre-sale was previously set up for Nov - Jan range, not sure if this is
changing
- Brakes will be long-reach sidepull caliper brakes like the Homer etc.
Unfortunately IMO. Reasonin
Yeah I am very much not sold with the appearance with the drop bars, but I
am going to run mine with an upright bar (MAP / Ahearne bar, to be exact)
and I've come around on that. Or, more accurately, I've come to really like
the look of Gus/Suzie and I can by extension accept the Charlie.
I wo
I love that silver, although it’s partly because it reminds me of the early
80’s Treks, with their great Imron paint jobs. Mostly, I am just really loving
that bike. I have to stop looking at it, as I currently have no job :( and the
pandemic is going to make it harder to get one, so the last th
What I am most interested in now is what the colors are going to be (same
as the prototypes? or different?) and what the downtube logo will look
like. I am hoping for an understated color that isn't too boring - ie
classic Riv blue would be great, but I don't like that silver too much.
--
Yo
That looks great.
On Tuesday, August 18, 2020 at 6:57:37 PM UTC-4, Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> You underestimate my parts bin! I could build both complete, other than
> the new wheelset, but you're very right that it's only a $750 increase over
> the frameset (give or take, depending where it land
Mini v brakes that can be used with normal-pull road brake levers. I had
tektros that worked great on a drop bar conversion MB-2. I also had mtb lever
shifters on the top of the bars and I’d do that again too. Room for 42mm tires?
Time to start saving $$!!!
-John
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Ash, yes - 10 minutes after I get my order in! :D
But in all seriousness, I don't know, sounds like they need to sort out the
build kits first and getting parts is tricky this year, so that's kind of
the biggest delay. The frame itself sounds to be pretty solidified, which
is promising. I sup
Jason,
Any intel on when can I order one of these?!!
On Tuesday, 18 August 2020 at 15:04:14 UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
> James told me some stuff today about the Charlie H Gallop and I've kept
> the secret for a full hour now - I hope he wasn't expecting me to hold it
> in longer than that
Those are 700 x 42. I may already have a pair of 700 x 38 GravelKing's I
got for my future CHG which I'll run with fenders :)
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I love it. I’m not sure what size tires are on that, but they look pretty fat,
and there still appears to be plenty of room for fenders. It looks like it
would make a nice light all road bike. I agree with Bill’s Roadini comparison.
Eamon
Seattle
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They look like V-brakes to me. You can see the noodle in the front cable
line. And, a side pull doesn't easily work in the rear because of the cable
routing to the brake arm with the housing stop. That Saddlesack would get
in the way.
I don't recognize the brakes -- TRP?
Same ornate seat cluster
BEATIFUL!
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ht
>From the CHG drawings, it looks like the tubing might actually be smaller
diameter than the Roadini. The Roadini (at least in my 61cm size), has a
28.6~31.8 top tube, while the CHG looks to be 25.4 that is squished various
ways. That would be a nice change--the Roadini is plenty stout.
Eric
On T
Totally! Which is exactly what I'd hoped for. I don't know what the tubing
is on the Roadini but I imagine this is similar, maybe one step up in wall
thickness. Normally I'd want 650B in my size but since I can "size up" more
comfortably with the curved top tube, the 700c will be proportional.
That looks like they took a Roadini, gave it slightly bigger tire
clearance, added Canti posts, and curved the top tube. I approve.
I wonder if it's 130mm in back or 135mm
I also wonder if that's a 35 year old Suntour BL front der on that build.
Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA
On Tuesday,
For $1650 you get a complete bike and can sell your Clem H without pilfering
any parts from it. Winner! 🏆
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James told me some stuff today about the Charlie H Gallop and I've kept the
secret for a full hour now - I hope he wasn't expecting me to hold it in
longer than that :D
- They will be sold as completes with Clem-like pricing (I don't know if
they'll be drop bar, upright, or both options)
- Ro
Yeah. Most bikes are stolen as crimes of opportunity--unlocked, unattended.
Then you have the semi-pros--they have cutters and can get at cheaper locks
quickly. It's doubtful whether they will discriminate much as long as the
bike looks like it can bring $10+. I understand there is a small subse
I have a hard time believing anyone outside the Riv-fam will find the
curved top tube of the CHG attractive ;) Honestly, the silver-grey proto
looks like a 1990s "multi-track" hybrid bike to me; extremely low key IMO.
It'll be a TIG frame in the ~$900 range (I hope), but more importantly
it'll
I can’t see how locking and leaving the CHG would be any less stressful
than the Sam. Maybe more so, since the Sam looks a bit older fashioned and
maybe less attractive to thieves.
On Thursday, August 13, 2020, Jason Fuller wrote:
> Yesterday I went for a ~50km ride with a couple buddies, and we
Yesterday I went for a ~50km ride with a couple buddies, and we had to lock
up our bikes at the entrance to the park because it was no bikes - which
was stressful for me on the Hillborne. Now, my Clem I am comfortable
locking up in those types of situations, but it's really tough to keep up
wit
That’s it! Thanks and glad I wasn’t making up the “... complete non-custom for
about the same cost as a full custom frame” suggestion.
I also realize I replied to Scott’s message basically restating exactly what he
and some above had stated. Sorry about that. The cost comparison 4K vs 4K was
the Rivnobi!
https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/no-4-2020-early-feb-topics?_pos=9&_sid=5f9834c54&_ss=r
On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 9:20 AM Coal Bee Rye Anne <
lionsrugbyalu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My memory is quite hazy lately but I vaguely recall mention of a
> 'complete-on
My memory is quite hazy lately but I vaguely recall mention of a
'complete-only' offering in the works being something in collaboration with
Mark Nobilette - maybe non-custom-made-to-orders or something along those
lines? I think the gist of it was a complete Nobilette made Rivendell
for appro
Ah, I hope that’s the case. I’m increasingly attracted to the Gallup and very
curious about its development moving forward. As for the complete-only bikes,
yes I recall now that those are to be Nobilette built bikes offered as
completes, not the Gallup. Thanks for chiming in and helping clear
My understanding is that it will be offered both complete and as a
frameset, with the frameset being more available than recent Clem
framesets, which lately have only been offered in limited quantities after
all the completes ship out. Not sure if that was a phone conversation with
Rivendell, o
I remember reading- sometime back in winter. Mark was building up some not
quite custom, but fancy complete bikes.
forget what they were called now... ‘raviolis’ ...? Lol. Something like
that.
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 5:44 PM scott minor wrote:
> Is this the bike Grant wrote about a while back t
Is this the bike Grant wrote about a while back that will be offered as
complete-only?
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That is one nifty looking bicycle.
It seems counterintuitive, but I like the swooptop style more than the
traditional sloping top tube. It may have started way back with the first
prototype photo of the Clementine (2014?). My immediate reaction was, that
is the ugliest. I guess I then had a sud
As Jason noted in a July 10th post, there is also a nice orange Gallop
frame hanging above the silver one.
David in Berkeley (who wishes the smaller ones were to be made as 650b)
On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 8:47:57 AM UTC-7, Jeff B wrote:
>
> If anyone zoomed in enough in the last email updat
That is lovely.
On Sunday, July 12, 2020 at 12:47:18 AM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>
> My Poly.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/JDVudtqU6Jpw6dm2A
>
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SOMA Saga is a great bike! Excellent Choice.
That VO Poly Low kicker is intriguing; I like the thru Axles & 1.1/8" steer
tube and its very tempting to sell my Polyvalent & get one of those,
because I virtually have ALL the spare components I need to build it!
But, part of the reason I don't ri
That's a great looking build. I recently helped a friend build up a purple
poly, and it is an impressive bike. Easy to build. I'd very much reccommend it
to anyone who wants "Riv-adjacent" aesthetics with disc brakes.
If Riv is going to push for more riders to ride V brakes with drops, dare
My Poly.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JDVudtqU6Jpw6dm2A
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Just to chime in on VO Polyvalent.
I bought one of the lilac ones and set it up as close to the set up of my
Atlantis as I possibly could. Albastash bars, dynamo hub, etc. Now it should be
noted that there was a difference in frame size due to the difference between
the 26" wheeled Alantis and
Hmmm. Testing could be a little difficult. Who at Rivendell remembers how
to ride a drop bar bike?;^)
On Friday, July 10, 2020 at 7:59:53 PM UTC-4, Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> I feel compelled to update this thread with the photo of the two prototype
> Gallop's from the RBW email today; built up one
I feel compelled to update this thread with the photo of the two prototype
Gallop's from the RBW email today; built up one and the orange frameset.
The orange one sells it for me a lot more. I still think it should be
built around 650x47 instead of 700c, but maybe it's meant to replace the
Ro
I hear ya, S, I'm trying to be a more positive fellow on this forum these days,
too. For excellent raging negativity please see my Twitter account. I don't
recommend it! 😋
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Off-topic, again, but, just to clarify, I deleted my comments because I
want to try and be positive online. My comments couldn't be a help to
anyone, solved no problem, and illuminated no important issues. Also, in
regard to small businesses, I believe in voting with your wallet. It's one
thing
Agreed, V-O came up and I offered an opinion. It didn't feel like an argument
to me worthy of anyone else having to delete their POV.
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FWIW, while I disagree, I didn't think your comments were out of place.
Vive la difference!
On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 5:29 PM S wrote:
> Deleted my comments. They were off-topic and not constructive.
>
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Deleted my comments. They were off-topic and not constructive.
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I didn't say the parts weren't well made. The headsets, cranks, etc, look
nice. But I feel that the design thinking at places such as Riv, Crust,
Black Mountain, etc, is deeper and comes from a more authentic place. VO
seem like trend followers to me. Which, whatever, who cares. Just not the
ki
I agree, Joe! They’re awesome people, and they make really fun and functional
parts and bikes that I can actually afford!
Grant brings a lot of really cool designs back into the mainstream, and I’m
grateful for that. VO proves there is room in the market for companies in the
same innovative, pr
The current owners of V-O are lovely people making really neat stuff including
the Neutrino mini velo, a bike nobody asked for and no market study would have
recommended. They did it anyway!
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I disagree. VO is clearly more of a “business” business, and much of their
stuff is made to a price point, but most of it is made with a purpose more than
revenue, is well designed and manufactured, and developed by people who live
bicycles. As for copying, it sure didn’t start with VO—the Road
Some of their parts look OK, but I have always felt that VO lacks . . .
heart and originality. That's the nicest way I can say it.
On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 3:47:32 PM UTC-7, Fullylugged wrote:
>
> VO has on other occasions mimicked what Rivendell has introduced. Usually
> made more cheaply a
Nifty summary Edwin, missing the Road and Road Standard bikes of ‘94-98. Long
time RBW followers know that if you see something you like, buy it. EVERYTHING
gets replaced after a short while due to a number of constraints. Some long
term projects like Atlantis keep the name but the new versio
You mean like this? Sorry, I couldn’t resist, a craigslist item
Bill S
On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 11:43:20 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> That Polyvalent Low-Kicker is a great looking bike, in my opinion. I
> think it illustrates how much better the Gallop may look with drop bars
> close
Doug, looking at Marty's awesome google doc, it looks like:
1994-1998: 6 - All Rounder, Mountain Expedition, Long Low, Cyclo Cross,
Heron
1999-2003: 5 - Atlantis, Rambo, Quickbeam, Romulus, Redwood
2004-2008: 6 - Saluki, Glorius, Wilbury Bleriot, AHH, Legolas
2009-2013: 7 - Bomba, Sam, Roadeo, Sim
I read somewhere Riv was planning on selling these as completes. Hopefully
framesets will be available as well. Like Mark, I have plenty of parts.
On Wednesday, June 10, 2020, Mark Roland wrote:
> Yes, it's more road oriented than the Hillibikes, with shorter front
> center, more bb drop. I thin
I've not been a Rivendell consumer and fan for as long as many of you, just
about 4 or 5 years. Does Grant usually come out with new frame designs
every year or two or has he been stepping it up lately with more offerings?
Doug Hansford
On Wednesday, June 10, 2020 at 9:00:19 AM UTC-4, Mark Rolan
Yes, it's more road oriented than the Hillibikes, with shorter front
center, more bb drop. I think it's hard to judge the aesthetics of the
joints with the snapshot we have--those shadows don't help. Still, I don't
see a problem with it, and for road riding it gives plenty of extra
clearance. I
Garth,
Thanks for doing the overlay on the Susie, it is useful!
This schematic seems to show an 80mm BB drop for the Gallop. The Large Susie
has a 70mm drop, so the Gallop is more “roadish” that way along with the
shorter effective top tube.
I’m getting a Medium Susie (also orange) and the fram
To Bruce's point, the Charlie Gallop looks more refined and will have a
ride to match. Love Charlie's graceful fork.
Abe, thanks for the visual comparisons.
Best,
Rich in ATL
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 6:47 PM bruce.herbit...@gmail.com <
bruce.herbit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> VO has on other occasions
VO has on other occasions mimicked what Rivendell has introduced. Usually made
more cheaply and at a lower price point.
On Tuesday, June 9, 2020, 01:09:36 PM CDT, Brian Campbell
wrote:
VO is offering something similar:
https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2020/05/mega-list-of-project-updat
That Polyvalent Low-Kicker is a great looking bike, in my opinion. I think
it illustrates how much better the Gallop may look with drop bars closer to
level with the saddle. Some of you think a bike looks weird when a tube
curves. Some of you don't like gaps that are bigger than you are used
VO is offering something similar:
https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2020/05/mega-list-of-project-updates.html
Drop tube/drop bar bikes are a " thing" now.
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Maybe it's just my eyes, but with the drop bars, it looks to be a bit of an
homage to the Charlie Cunningham bicycles of the early mountain bike era.
But different enough. If that ends up being close to the final design, I
like it. Even though I'm not looking for anything else. (Except for waiti
I believe the schematic shows an oval top tube. Starts at 25.4 then
transitions to oval (28.6/22.2). Makes for a more comfortable place to sit
while stopped.
On Monday, 8 June 2020 18:16:47 UTC-7, Eric Daume wrote:
>
> I also saw the drawing had a 25.4mm non-oversized top tube. I hope Riv
> sti
I also saw the drawing had a 25.4mm non-oversized top tube. I hope Riv
sticks with this spec.
On Monday, June 8, 2020, Chris L wrote:
> The Gallop schematic that was posted on the Blahg a few months ago shows a
> 700c x 47 (724 mm diameter) tire specification. I don't know if that type
> of sch
The Gallop schematic that was posted on the Blahg a few months ago shows a
700c x 47 (724 mm diameter) tire specification. I don't know if that type
of schematic typically shows the biggest tire the bike is designed for.
I like this one. I like the swooping top tube on the Gus and I like it o
I just sold two bikes, so my bike fund is pretty flush right now. This CHG
is looking pretty good to me.
Fat tires and rim brakes and longish chainstays and a high bar position are
a pretty tough combo to find.
I even kind of like the top tube. It swoops in the correct direction,
unless some styl
Flip your curved seat stays and you might be looking at an s-curve when
combined with the swoop tube.
--
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On June 8, 2020 2:46:42 PM PDT, "A. Douglas M." wrote:
>The more I look at it, the more I understand it’s the contrast between
>the lone swoop and all the straight tubes that my eyes di
I could see it looking really amazing with decals. I tend to like riv's
built up with a certain amount of "greebles." Bags, lights, racks (in
moderation) all really make a more built up riv pop over a stripped down
build (to me). Maybe Grant will do large clem swoop stays on larger models?
On M
The more I look at it, the more I understand it’s the contrast between the lone
swoop and all the straight tubes that my eyes dislike. I think if the bike had
more swoops, it would blend better.
I even made an awful drawing to illustrate.
Best,
Aaron
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I guess I should have said "this kinda looks like..." Thinking is always
clearer once you see your words in print.
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On June 8, 2020 2:24:49 PM PDT, Pancake wrote:
>Grant's earlier description was: it's like a Sam Hillborne but fits
>wider
>tires, has at least a swooping tube like the Su
Grant's earlier description was: it's like a Sam Hillborne but fits wider
tires, has at least a swooping tube like the Suzie, and takes v-brakes.
Sounds similar to this photo.
I'd like to see it with the fattest tires, some Losco bars, and swoopy seat
stays like the Clem. It'd be extra swoopy f
Has anyone asked how fat of a tire it will fit?
Fat is the new skinny
Ray
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Yes, it's more road bike than not. I have no idea why but I love the swoop,
and the silver. I'll see if I can take more pictures for y'all to ponder,
but there are significant changes still in the works from what I gather. So
for all we know the swoop might go and I'll have to buy the prototype.
I think it looks not great which means after some paint and graphics I'll love
it and want one. Not my first roadeo people!
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I agree, Carl; it is a good reason to celebrate! I’m sure the Gallop rides
blissfully. I like the swoop on the Clems, I like the swoop on the Atlantis, I
like the diagotube on the Hunq. I’m just not finding this swoop to look good to
my eyes.
I guess that makes me a retrogrouch. 😉
Best,
Aaro
Maybe another way to say it: this is a modern Rivendell redesign of the
All-Rounder with long stays and swoop tube.
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Maybe I'm more sensitive to this than most due to my short torso, but this
looks like a new bike designed for widish tires and drops. Isn't that cause for
celebrating? Rivendell has plenty of long top tube bikes. I would probably
still wind up with Northroads or Albastache on this because I'm a
Her IG is https://www.instagram.com/flynnsaw/
On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 12:24:18 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Who is Sal?
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Really hard to judge these things from a photo, but it seems like the front
end is a bit shorter here than on the Hillibikes. No doubt you could run an
upright bar, but perhaps designed with drops in mind foremost? Also maybe
slightly shorter chainstays? A Roadibike, not a Hillibike? But roadie
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