Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Revealed: Why Germans Oppose War in Iraq - French Fries - OT
I believe that CytoCulture out here in CA is using BD for remediation: http://www.cytoculture.com/process.html James On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, David Preskett wrote: Keith, I've just got to pick you over this: #There's an apparent misclassification of water pollution standards in Germany, where the risk from rapeseed oil is not even classified, whereas biodiesel is a class 1 hazard, and fossil diesel is in class 2 (worse). It only refers to water pollution and no other aspects of toxicity or hazard. # I like the German WGK system. It makes sure that people get clean water to drink without pollutants and they've got a good understanding of the importance of the relationship of forests and water. Biodiesel is a pretty serious pollutant (in water) as it biodegrades so rapidly by water organism which themselves strip the oxygen from the water (Biological Oxygen Demand or BOD) and kills everything else. Longer chained BD esters also require more oxygen to degrade than shorter chain diesel and have a high Chemical OD. Even household soaps, like greases also, have a very serious polluting effect and are also made from vegetable/animal oils. #This doesn't make sense, a biodiesel spill would be less of a problem than a spill of vegetable oil, which coats everything, like fossil oil does.# In soils yes. All three would cause anaerobic conditions initially but dino diesel would remain undegraded for a long time. I could show you a site of a thirty year old diesel spill here in North Wales where its still anaerobic and lifeless. On the other hand I purposely put BD in my compost heap to see what happened and after six months I had some pretty good mulch for my garden. #In fact biodiesel is used to clean up marine oil spills.# What a waste! So tell me, just which one of the oil companies clean up their oil spills at sea? There are far better systems for oil recovery anyway though they're rarely used. I've heard of this before and I can't see the logic behind it - you end up with a solution of crude oil in esters. Now picking it up is the problem Dave -- David Preskett, BSc (Hons.), AIWSc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reduce - reuse - recycle University of Wales BioComposites Centre Deiniol Road Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2UW http://www.bc.bangor.ac.uk Tel +44 (0)1248-370588 Fax: +44 (0)1248-370594 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Hrmm, why can't we have this in the US??
Here is something interesting from Detroit! GM's Opel brand brought a turbo diesel approach to fuel efficiency in an aggressive sports car called the Eco-Speedster, which again features a carbon-fiber body. The 112-hp two-seater concept car achieves 94 mpg and can reach a top speed of 155 mph. And we wonder why we can't have this back in the US?! Then again. it is only a concept car. :( Prolly is BD certified also Full link: http://www.afdc.doe.gov/whatsnew.shtml James S. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Large and Small, All on the Same Team-- Was Re: more info on the NBB and the soy subsidy
Sorry, I just had to responde to something you said about the DIY'rs
sullying the image of BD??!!
In this last weekends class we did a little homebrew test for quality
against commerce BD and a batch from the Berkley co-op and they were about
the same. If anything, the commerce BD that gets sent for ASTM and EPA
testing is prolly from a VERY carefully processed batch, whereas most
homebrew is carefully processed with each batch out of necessity (more
lovingly ;-) ). I wouldn't say all homebrewers are that concerned with
their batches, but to be a DIY'r is in itself a passion, and thus usually
more concerned.
James Slayden
On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Andrew Hoppin wrote:
snip
help? Or could they be authentically concerned that a small producer
making
some mistake in production will sully the image of biodiesel? Other
possibilities? Regardless, if you can identify what the root of their
problem is, then whether that root cause seems silly or not, and
regardless
snip
Cheers,
Andrew
The Biofuel Business Development Project
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/
Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact
On the Long-Range Future of Humanity
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:23:08 +0900
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: more info on the NBB and the soy subsidy
Hello Andrew
I'm would prefer to see a decentralized industry of small producers as
well,
but my bias is that if we're really going to make a near-term
difference in
our world in terms of energy security and environmental protection and
public health with biodiesel, we need to support any and all
companies that
are willing to produce and distribute biodiesel, small and large.
Cheers,
Andrew
Um, at the cost of having homebrewers dispensed with by means of a
load of BS about us being nothing but a peril who'll bring it all to
naught unless we're controlled? Or at least kept firmly in our place
(our own backyards)? Though we can be useful... Check back and you'll
see that that's basically what Mr Noyes of World Energy was saying.
He was asked how many times? Three? Four? - to substantiate his
claims that substandard-spec homebrew had caused widespread problems
and industry had had to clean up the mess after us. He evaded the
question each time. He can't substantiate it because it's BS. Not the
only thing he evaded. If you think that will at least stop him making
such unsubstantiated claims, even if he can't quite bring himself to
withdraw them, don't hold your breath.
Noyes, and others like him, couldn't cope with what we actually are
and what we do, as opposed to his patronising idea of us. Have a look
at how he handled the possibility of collaboration with us,
laughable. It's on his terms or nothing, just like the other World
Energy guy who wasted our time with this talk. We're more useful than
these people, and it's them who make it an either-or question, not us.
We're not against industry, that would be foolish, but there's
industry and then there's industry. It's not a case of small vs
large, there's room and need for both, as you say. Some of the big
companies are just fine, no problem at all working with them. But
frankly I think the world needs the likes of World Energy like it
needs a hole in the head.
{snip}
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[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Less Than Zero
Yeah, I was thinking on that recently, and a small producer would be in an excellent position to do well in localized rendering, providing it was built into the business plan. It's kinda a self serving feedstock cycle. On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, murdoch wrote: I think the economics and political philosophy of recycling can not only be interesting but at times has gotten just plain strange. Recycling I guess means two things, identification and disposal of waste (1st) and then (2nd) use of that waste rather than some sort of sequestration or throwing away as a disposal method. I guess folks have a tough enough time paying for number one, and getting to number 2 is just that much tougher or something. Maybe we had so much of the Earth to ourselves for so many millenia that we just are having a tough time with our more crowded state. Looking at the history of the effort to recycle paper, it seems to me there was some strange volatility of recycled-paper prices. That is, I think I read an article once where they said at some point you did have a lot of entrants into the relatively nascent market, and there was enthusiasm, or even over-enthusiasm for this new field that had met previously with skepticism, and then the bottom kind of fell out of the recycled paper raw feed market and so the business went back to being viewed skeptically? Well, that's my recollection. Well, I'm sure there are University Professors out there doing all sorts of interesting and terribly important theses which are pertinent to the Economics of Recycling, except their ideas will probably become mainstream decades after they might have done us any good. Heck, it's taken me years just to get some folks to understand that regenerative braking arguably amounts to recycling energy of motion, but I guess that's getting a bit off my point, and a bit away from regular recycling concepts. it's free for the taking. Biodieselers are a great way to localise the collection of waste oils effectively. I also saw this, but haven't managed to confirm it: Every year, U.S. businesses throw away enough waste vegetable oil to replace 10% of the petroleum products consumed in the country. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] BD Business and Ability to be Profitable-- does big vs small matter?
Hi Andrew, I think that business case decisions are based on things like; people employed, feedstock cost, chemicals cost, facility costs, equipment costs and depreciation, etc. It takes making up a business plan and proforma to find out at what level of production and sales can be applied. Here in California due to the cost of living, a single producer (ie. one person) paying himself 45K/yr (very low wages for area) would have to make 200-500g/d and sell the fuel between $2.00 - $3.00 gal. That is a rough estimate, but if you include chemical, facility, local distribution, and tax issues, this is somewhat in the ballpark. Someone please correct me if I am way off the mark. If the variables can be mucked with, ie. energy inputs, facilities costs, feedstock cost, chemical costs, then there is some leaway. Of course as the amount of fuel one produces/sells goes up == better wages. But then the economies of scale come into play. At some point though there will be a jump in things like energy inputs, amount of people needed to process, more equipment capital, etc. When I have run the numbers lightly there seems to be some magical numbers such as above 500g/d more people and equipment are needed to keep production sustainable. Then again @ ~1000g/d the same thing happens. So I am wondering if there is a formula like Moore's Law coming into play when yields are doubled. I'm sure a proforma would point this out fairly easy. Has anyone done any work on coming up with a BD business formula for inputs/employees/production/sales for small scale producers? Todd has a very good understanding of a small scale processors needs when it comes to this, so you might want to talk to him. James Slayden On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Andrew Hoppin wrote: Hello again. One charge that I have heard public policy folks levy at small producers is along the following lines: Small producers can't make their production business really profitable, so they're not going to be able to contribute significantly to mass-market conversion from fossil fuels to biofuels... Therefore, since our policy goal is to maximize the use of cleaner domestically produced fuels, when considering policy and public support for BD, we'll seek to support large producers first and foremost. I have also spoken with small producers who themselves say that they're not sure how they'd make a profit... So, I'd like to know have your thoughts, whether in agreement or in rebuttal, regarding whether there is truth in this assertion, and also regarding what the public policy relevance should or should not be if it were true. And if it is not true, then what/who are the success stories in terms of profitable small-scale production and distribution? Thanks, Andrew Hoppin The Biofuel Business Development Project http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/ Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact On the Long-Range Future of Humanity N Space Labs, Inc. Vizualize Your Business [EMAIL PROTECTED] 646.221.5602 (mobile) 158 Lafayette St. 2nd Floor NY, NY 10013 -Original Message- From: Andrew Hoppin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:34 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: big vs small: quality assurance Hi folks. I'm learning a lot from the ongoing lively debate-- thank you. Regarding the issue that has been at hand-- whether big producers deliver better quality and reliability than small producers or not, and whether any quality differences are cause for concern among potential consumers or not: it seems to me that one way to nip this in the bud REGARDLESS of whether there are valid concerns or not would be to have a credible BD fuel quality testing service, perhaps with some public funding and perhaps with modest fees paid by producers, perhaps on a sliding-scale based on the size of their revenues. If a producer wished to be certified that their fuel was top-notch, they could avail themselves of this service by sending fuel samples (each month?) and fleet managers, consumers, and anyone else who cares would have an objective answer to their quality concerns, whether or not those concerns are valid. Has this ever been undertaken? If not, would such a service effectively serve the purpose I've outlined, and in what form (government, non-profit, or for-profit) would such a service be most effectively delivered? Andrew Hoppin The Biofuel Business Development Project http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/ Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact On the Long-Range Future of Humanity N Space Labs, Inc. Vizualize Your Business [EMAIL PROTECTED] 646.221.5602 (mobile) 158 Lafayette St. 2nd Floor NY, NY 10013 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http
Re: [biofuels-biz] big vs small: quality assurance
Andrew, Interesting that you mention this for when I did a search on ASTM testing services here is what I got: Searched the web for ASTM Testing Services. Results 1 - 4 of about 6. I even modified the search and got worse results. Someone had previously sent a link for ~$700 ASTM testing which could be rolled into a business cost. The EPA only requires testing to be done on a per annum basis. Please see Girl Mark's previous posting on homebrew methods of quality testing. James Slayden On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Andrew Hoppin wrote: Hi folks. I'm learning a lot from the ongoing lively debate-- thank you. Regarding the issue that has been at hand-- whether big producers deliver better quality and reliability than small producers or not, and whether any quality differences are cause for concern among potential consumers or not: it seems to me that one way to nip this in the bud REGARDLESS of whether there are valid concerns or not would be to have a credible BD fuel quality testing service, perhaps with some public funding and perhaps with modest fees paid by producers, perhaps on a sliding-scale based on the size of their revenues. If a producer wished to be certified that their fuel was top-notch, they could avail themselves of this service by sending fuel samples (each month?) and fleet managers, consumers, and anyone else who cares would have an objective answer to their quality concerns, whether or not those concerns are valid. Has this ever been undertaken? If not, would such a service effectively serve the purpose I've outlined, and in what form (government, non-profit, or for-profit) would such a service be most effectively delivered? Andrew Hoppin The Biofuel Business Development Project http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/ Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact On the Long-Range Future of Humanity N Space Labs, Inc. Vizualize Your Business [EMAIL PROTECTED] 646.221.5602 (mobile) 158 Lafayette St. 2nd Floor NY, NY 10013 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] information on combustion of used frying oils
Here is a link to another manufacture: http://www.econoheat.com/ They even have AC's James Slayden On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Appal Energy wrote: Frank, Take a look at www.cleanburn.com They're just a few hours from here in Pennsylvania. We ran samples of Ohio crude straight out of the ground, straight vegetable oil and biodiesel in one of their units (one of their distributor's units in Ohio actually), all with fine results relative to the functional ability of the fuels in comparison to the waste motor oils they are designed to use. Granted, that's not the same as emissions results. However, these units are approved by the US EPA, which means that they have to have conducted some emissions testing using waste motor oil. Certainly WVO would be less toxic out of the chute than motor oil, or at least one would tend to believe so. Take a look. Perhaps e-mail them. If you need someone to make a call, it could be done from our end relatively easily. Todd Swearingen Appal Energy - Original Message - From: Frank Bergmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 9:47 AM Subject: [biofuels-biz] information on combustion of used frying oils Hi everyone, At this moment I am writing a fact sheet about the use of used Waste Vegetable Oil from restaurants. Since the ban on animal feed WVO needs an alternative outlet. Because the Dutch government is against tax redemption on bio diesel the most relevant outlet at this moment is heating fuel in boilers to heat for example glass houses. The product board helps the Dutch collectors of WVO to maintain their quite successful collecting system. Goal is to prevent WVO to disappear into a general waste stream. Before issuing a permit, the government wants to know more about the possible emissions to the air. Problem is that I don't have this information. I have been searching the internet for reports on experimental data on combustion of WVO in boilers. But unfortunately I didn't find anything useful. Can anyone help me? Frank Bergmans Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Share the magic of Harry Potter with Yahoo! Messenger http://us.click.yahoo.com/4Q_cgB/JmBFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM --- --~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ·FREE Health Insurance Quotes-eHealthInsurance.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/1.voSB/RnFFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Homebrewer on a soapbox! was A Response to
Keith mentioned something that I think needs to be emphisized is that the collection rates for WVO is rather low, and within that low collection percentage only a certain amount is actually recycled into something valuable. Thus although the big FF chains might do a BD venture themselves (more as a greenwash campaingn) or work with some large BD processors (for a commodity fee), on the whole there is a zillion small hole-in-the-wall resturantes that will work with a homebrewer/small producer for free removal of the WVO. I personally know of many. ;-) Also, remember that the focus for the large processor is time == money, so that the faster they can process and get a vialable product without having to jump through too many hoops, that is the dirction they will go. Paying for SVO for them makes the process go smoother without all the titration hassle, and with a consistant feedstock it also insures a consistant fuel. And consistancy is a good marketing tool (With OUR fuel you won't have to worry about damage to your engine ) Both of those areas are time and money issues. For the homebrewer time/money issue are a moot point as it is more a hobbie thing. And for the small producer Keith mentioned that local collection and production will beat out long distance distrubution in price, even if the economics of scale are better for the large producer. James Slayden On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Keith Addison wrote: Hello; Good point about third world... I can see the time when bio diesel will be marketed as a 'super' fuel and will priced accordingly--simple marketing dynamics. The only ones who will be able to afford it will be the very poor through aid programs or the well-to-do. I base this on my belief that raw fuel stocks such as WVO will become commodities-especially by the bigger chains McDonald'scDonalds-that can improve the profitability of restaurants. Oil is big business and when its demise comes bio diesel will be big business. My advise to the small producers is enjoy the present and be prepared to be eaten by the sharks( via buy outs or other less pleasant means). Best Regards Alex Landels Lots been written here about the potential of local-niche production and much besides. There are many local-type scenarios where the big guys won't be able to compete, not just on a price basis, there are often other factors at work. Growth in at least some of these areas is already quite rapid. On-farm production, especially from integrated farms rather than monocroppers, is another such case, also growing rapidly. Costs can be essentially zero, and direct costs aside, on-farm economics will tend to keep outside stuff outside, no benefit. It doesn't just depend on WVO availability, though that's a few billion gallons a year in the US. In most industrialized countries collection levels are about 10%. It's unlikely to be optimized, no matter how valuable it gets or how much the Big Guys might be after it, unless collection starts at the local level, at point of production. This applies to virtually all waste recycling. And it leaves plenty of scope for small-scale operators and DIYers who're also working at that level. Take a closer look at some of the things in Mark's post about local-level initiatives. Much also been written about Big Biodiesel, and people expecting to be brushed aside when the time comes. There could already be too much local stuff going on for that to happen quite so easily. If the sharks come too close they could get torn to pieces by piranhas. For a comparison, local farmers' markets and CSAs are growing apace, and there's absolutely nothing that big agribiz interests can do about it, much as I'm sure they'd like to. The USDA organic standards a few posts have mentioned were such an attempt, but very many real organic farms have simply opted out and continue dealing with their local markets without any problems. This is also capitalism at work, you know - more so than big, centralized corporatism is, and it's more American anyway. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] BD Business and Ability to be Profitable-- does big vs small matter?
Thanks for clarifying that Todd. I think you sent me the same thing some time ago, but I couldn't find the post. On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Appal Energy wrote: Guess we need to define small, medium, large and producer. Small - 100-500 gallons a day - 35,000-175,000 gallons per year (?) Medium - 750-1000 gallons a day - 265,000-350,000 gallons per year (?) Large - 1,500 plus gallons a day - 525,000 plus gallons per year (?) producer - anyone distributing off-road or on-road fuel for profit (?) - Original Message - From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] BD Business and Ability to be Profitable-- does big vs small matter? any idea on how many small producers we';re talking about in the us? Mark At 03:48 PM 11/25/2002 -0500, you wrote: Hello again. One charge that I have heard public policy folks levy at small producers is along the following lines: Small producers can't make their production business really profitable, so they're not going to be able to contribute significantly to mass-market conversion from fossil fuels to biofuels... Therefore, since our policy goal is to maximize the use of cleaner domestically produced fuels, when considering policy and public support for BD, we'll seek to support large producers first and foremost. I have also spoken with small producers who themselves say that they're not sure how they'd make a profit... So, I'd like to know have your thoughts, whether in agreement or in rebuttal, regarding whether there is truth in this assertion, and also regarding what the public policy relevance should or should not be if it were true. And if it is not true, then what/who are the success stories in terms of profitable small-scale production and distribution? Thanks, Andrew Hoppin The Biofuel Business Development Project http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/ Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact On the Long-Range Future of Humanity N Space Labs, Inc. Vizualize Your Business [EMAIL PROTECTED] 646.221.5602 (mobile) 158 Lafayette St. 2nd Floor NY, NY 10013 -Original Message- From: Andrew Hoppin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:34 PM To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: big vs small: quality assurance Hi folks. I'm learning a lot from the ongoing lively debate-- thank you. Regarding the issue that has been at hand-- whether big producers deliver better quality and reliability than small producers or not, and whether any quality differences are cause for concern among potential consumers or not: it seems to me that one way to nip this in the bud REGARDLESS of whether there are valid concerns or not would be to have a credible BD fuel quality testing service, perhaps with some public funding and perhaps with modest fees paid by producers, perhaps on a sliding-scale based on the size of their revenues. If a producer wished to be certified that their fuel was top-notch, they could avail themselves of this service by sending fuel samples (each month?) and fleet managers, consumers, and anyone else who cares would have an objective answer to their quality concerns, whether or not those concerns are valid. Has this ever been undertaken? If not, would such a service effectively serve the purpose I've outlined, and in what form (government, non-profit, or for-profit) would such a service be most effectively delivered? Andrew Hoppin The Biofuel Business Development Project http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/ Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact On the Long-Range Future of Humanity N Space Labs, Inc. Vizualize Your Business [EMAIL PROTECTED] 646.221.5602 (mobile) 158 Lafayette St. 2nd Floor NY, NY 10013 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ·FREE Health Insurance Quotes-eHealthInsurance.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/1.voSB/RnFFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM - ~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group,
Re: [biofuels-biz] Homebrew problems
Didn't we process a batch from the same resturante that was good (ie. a later date)? I thought we did that during class. And you were mentioning how unusual it was that you had this bad oil from a formerly good source. Had the bad oil experience, then went back and tested again and it was good oil again? I guess this is why you say to bring a titration test kit when hunting oil. ;-) What your saying is really logical, that something acidic either got mixed in or rooting food caused and acidic condition. Dunno, although a scenario might be they just tossed some bad vinager/acidic crap in the bin. Operator error is usually the cause in computer stuff, so why should it be any different with a resturante? James Slayden On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, girl mark wrote: This brings up a question I';ve had for a while- are there other acids besides ffa, that are not water-soluble and are found in oils? We had some particularly terrible oil that titrated at 13 ml, and I just couldn't bring myself to believe that it was ffa causing the high values in the titration, as that restaurant always had decent oil before that particular sample. I tried doing what you're describing- washing the oil and pH testing the wash water and also re-titrating the oil layer to see if the acidity was something caused by water-solubles (vinegar from cooking, or acids from food rotting), and it seemed that it was still something insoluble, presumably ffa. thoughts? mark At 01:21 AM 11/27/2002 +, you wrote: The problems of quality of homebrew or commercial for that matter never seem to go away. As much as I would like to pretend that our bio is perfect, I want to share the latest of ours problems with the group in the hope that some one may benefit. I got a call that the fuel from the storage tank had clogged the filter on Tony's crane truck. Not with algae but with grease. Bear in mind that it been over 30°C. I went over the process that Tony had been using. We had been concentrating on fine tuning the separators to continually remove the glycerol as it formed, the fuel was completely reacted and the temperature was over the melting points of our longest fatty acid esters. The problem had to come from the washing. Now washing is a brutal affair compared with bubble washing and getting the emulsion to break involves acidifying the water(slightly I would have hoped.). I ran some thick cream from the bottom drain of the storage tank and tested it for FFA's by mixing with neutral water and titrating the layers. The water remained neutral but the oil took ¾ ml of standard NaOH . I deduced that I was dealing with FFA's not an inorganic acid. After performing a number of trials using acid catalysis and the three alcohols on hand. I found that the controls using alcohol alone reduced the acid number and clarified the product. Addition of 5% of methanol without the addition of Sulphuric clarified the goop within 30 minutes at ambient temperature. We modified the post washing stage . Drying was achieved by heating the fuel to 115° while pumping from the bottom and spraying over the open top. As the dry fuel cooled to 60°C 2% methanol was added and the lid closed for recirculating. Once cool, ~30°C, this fuel was pumped across to the storage vat. I have neglected research on the washing stage, hopefully we can shorten this step as well. When the separators work well a 200l batch can be reacted and separated to completion in under an hour. I believe that the separators would have to spin much faster to be of use in post-wash separation. I have designed a simple vertical centrifuge to take the place of the dairy separators. If I get around to building it I'll post the results. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Cellulosic Ethanol
Anyone know who the folks in NYC who are doing the Garbage Cellulosic process are? James Slayden On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Appal Energy wrote: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 Forestry, flax seen as ethanol options Karen Briere, The Western Producer People may argue about whether Saskatchewan ethanol plants will use local wheat or imported corn, but one expert says neither feedstock is the best option. Keith Hutchence, senior research scientist at the Saskatchewan Research Council's petroleum branch, says he'd like to see ethanol plants that use cellulose feedstock. There's lots of cellulosic waste around, Hutchence said. That includes about one million tonnes of flax straw that is burned every year, and several million tonnes of sawdust, bark and branches that are produced by the forestry industry and are becoming an environmental problem. Hemp is a good multipurpose crop that would provide another source of feedstock from the cellulose fibre in the stalks. The industry is a few years away from using more of these types of plants, but Hutchence said it is the way of the future. We're limited to how much we can produce from grain without starting to disturb the grain market, he said. As a scientist, Hutchence likes the idea of more ethanol production, but as a farmer, he is concerned that proponents will get carried away thinking a larger cattle industry, spurred by ethanol, will save the rural economy. Two Manitoba agricultural economists have written that the ethanol industry in that province would rely on cheaper imported corn because there isn't enough feed in the Prairies to supply the growing livestock industry and ethanol plants. However, officials in Saskatchewan say they wouldn't be building plants in the province if they didn't think there was sufficient feedstock. Hutchence added that cellulosic plants will offer alternative benefits. One of the few cellulose plants operating right now is eating up New York garbage, he said. Hutchence is not the only proponent of cellulose-based production. Iogen Corp., an Ottawa-based biotech company, has been promoting cellulose-based production for several years. Iogen officials calculated that processing just 30 percent of the wheat, barley and oat straw produced in the three prairie provinces would produce four billion litres of ethanol. In partnership with Petro-Canada, Iogen is building a $35-million demonstration plant in Ottawa. The pilot plant will produce three to four million L of ethanol per year, and will test the performance of different types of straw. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] speedy separation on a large scale
http://www.wsus.com/ Although I'm sure there are more companies out there. BTW, They're a new partner of the NBB. Gotta get your advertising somehow ;-) James Slayden On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Tom Branigan wrote: Hello, can anyone give me a rough idea of the types of centrifuges or liquid liquid separation equipment that could be used for the separation of glycerol from biodiesel, and the separation of water from biodiesel. (as in after washing) I have no expertise in this kind of equipment and would appreciate greatly any help on the matter. I am aiming at a plant to produce 15000 litres of biodiesel per week. Tom _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] OT: San Diego Mexican Fruit Fly Quarantine Situation
Interesting that they are just burying the infested fruit?? Why not turn it in to ethanol. Truely is a a shame James Slayden BTW murdoch, you have any contacts in the avocado industry?? ;-) On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021205-_1mc5spin.html VALLEY CENTER Organic growers inside the expected quarantine area here will be able to fight the Mexican fruit fly with a new variety of a special insecticide, state officials said yesterday. The news was great relief to organic farmers who didn't know how they would be able to keep their certified-organic status while battling the destructive fly. There's been this fear out there that was not going to happen, but that is really good news, said Jerome Stehly, chairman of the California Avocado Commission who owns a grove where the flies and larvae were found. There's a lot of growers in Valley Center who are organic, said Stehly, who also owns 10 acres of organically grown avocados near Interstate 15. It gives them an option so they can take their fruit to market. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021206-_1mi6mexfly.html http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/sun/metro/news_1mi1fly.html Organic growers are allowed to use a pesticide called spinosad, but it currently is unavailable because of an oversight by state officials who did not renew its annual registration. That was criminally negligent, Al Stehly said. Now we have one choice and that's malathion. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] OT: San Diego Mexican Fruit Fly Quarantine Situation
Hmm, forgot about the oil content, Sheesh, one man's trash is another's treasure On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Keith Addison wrote: Interesting that they are just burying the infested fruit?? Why not turn it in to ethanol. Truely is a a shame James Slayden BTW murdoch, you have any contacts in the avocado industry?? ;-) Hi James Ethanol and biodiesel - there's a lot of oil in that fruit, 282 gallons an acre, it says here. Or at least compost it - good composting in the orchards would reduce pest attack anyway. Or even eliminate it. Best Keith On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021205-_1mc5spin.html VALLEY CENTER ñ Organic growers inside the expected quarantine area here will be able to fight the Mexican fruit fly with a new variety of a special insecticide, state officials said yesterday. The news was great relief to organic farmers who didn't know how they would be able to keep their certified-organic status while battling the destructive fly. There's been this fear out there that was not going to happen, but that is really good news, said Jerome Stehly, chairman of the California Avocado Commission who owns a grove where the flies and larvae were found. There's a lot of growers in Valley Center who are organic, said Stehly, who also owns 10 acres of organically grown avocados near Interstate 15. It gives them an option so they can take their fruit to market. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021206-_1mi6mexfl y.html http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/sun/metro/news_1mi1fly.html Organic growers are allowed to use a pesticide called spinosad, but it currently is unavailable because of an oversight by state officials who did not renew its annual registration. That was criminally negligent, Al Stehly said. Now we have one choice and that's malathion. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] OT: San Diego Mexican Fruit Fly Quarantine Situation
Someone needs to come up with an alternative and get the powers that be to believe in it!! ;-) One might also get grants and subsidies as a side benefit also James Slayden On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Keith Addison wrote: Hmm, forgot about the oil content, Sheesh, one man's trash is another's treasure Yes! Now how do we put a stop to the downright silly intermediate step of trashing it in the first place? Keith On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Keith Addison wrote: Interesting that they are just burying the infested fruit?? Why not turn it in to ethanol. Truely is a a shame James Slayden BTW murdoch, you have any contacts in the avocado industry?? ;-) Hi James Ethanol and biodiesel - there's a lot of oil in that fruit, 282 gallons an acre, it says here. Or at least compost it - good composting in the orchards would reduce pest attack anyway. Or even eliminate it. Best Keith On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021205-_1mc5spin.html VALLEY CENTER Ò Organic growers inside the expected quarantine area here will be able to fight the Mexican fruit fly with a new variety of a special insecticide, state officials said yesterday. The news was great relief to organic farmers who didn't know how they would be able to keep their certified-organic status while battling the destructive fly. There's been this fear out there that was not going to happen, but that is really good news, said Jerome Stehly, chairman of the California Avocado Commission who owns a grove where the flies and larvae were found. There's a lot of growers in Valley Center who are organic, said Stehly, who also owns 10 acres of organically grown avocados near Interstate 15. It gives them an option so they can take their fruit to market. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20021206-_1mi6mexfl y.html http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/sun/metro/news_1mi1fly.html Organic growers are allowed to use a pesticide called spinosad, but it currently is unavailable because of an oversight by state officials who did not renew its annual registration. That was criminally negligent, Al Stehly said. Now we have one choice and that's malathion. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] (fwd) (fwd) news-release: School Bus Idling ATCM
Yeah, it's kinda interesting the article on SF busses being forced to go to CNG or some other alterna-petrol proposal, due to CARB emmision guidelines. Good that the Fleet manager was fighting back for Diesel, although absolutely NO mention was made of B100 or even B20 for that matter. It just shocks me how little the Muni planners (and fleet managers) know about such things. It would be a great opportunity for someone to do a Broker type of thing for them for B100, thus they wouldn't have to get rid of their capital cost that already has been realized on the present busses. If someone doesn't do it, I might just call up Graham N. and broker it myself ;-) Sheesh!!! James Slayden On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: Some in the biofuel groups and elsewhere may look askance at the CARB instituting such seeming common-sense measures for slightly decreasing emissions and improving air quality near school-children, but then seeming to fail to implement biofuel and other clean-air technologies. I'm not sure if CARB has made any headway in researching benefits of using biofuels as against dino fuels in school busses. Remember that not only is CARB limited to emissions debates (NOT mileage debates) but they weaken or even destroy their entire footing sometimes when they venture into mileage and other areas (I think there's recently been a lawsuit from the enviro-hostile Federal government against some of the CARB-related activities or rulings because of their alleged straying from clean-air-related concerns.) Anyway, I'd love to see CARB evaluate some pilot school-bus biofuel programs (such as I think SSPC was running?) for some very specific measureable changes in school bus emissions and perhaps for some changes in overall community emissions if they were able to attach numbers to the benefits (or damages or harms) of reprocessing waste grease rather than allowing it to be thrown away and emit-gosh-knows-what from its resting hole (if I understand correctly what happens to some of it?). Two more strategizing notes: Since so much of the school system is publicly owned, (governmentally-owned-and-run), this means IMO that an agency like CARB has a much more clear-cut legitimate ability to mandate, incontrovertibly, how the fleet of busses serving those public schools should be run. They are part of ownership, part of the management team. I am not a fan of government-involvement in the education business, but this is one instance where the issue plays in favor of some progress, IMO. Second, busses, in particular, seem to be focus points for some of the alternative fuel efforts at advanced research. You hear about this or that pilot program by this or that manufacture, major and minor, to research super-advanced batteries, fuel cells, hybrids including ultracaps, etc., in busses. EFCX, for example where their semi-battery-fuel-cell (whatever the hell it is) technology I think has done some bus work (with GE?) and Maxwell was going on about GM putting some ultracaps in busses or large trucks for a sort of initial effort. So, although I'm very much in favor of a simple straightforward gaining of knowledge and promulgation of a 100%-biodiesel-in-busses concept, biofuel advocates may wish to be aware of the compatibilities with other alt-fuel efforts. MM On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:09:11 -0800, Gennet Paauwe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please find the following California Air Resources Board news release on today's approval of an air toxic control measure for idling school buses. You may view it at: http://www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/nr121202.htm Thanks, Gennet Paauwe Office of Communications California Air Reosurces Board ++ California Environmental Protection Agency NEWS RELEASE Air Resources Board Release 02-46 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE December 12, 2002 CONTACT: Jerry Martin Gennet Paauwe (916) 322-2990 www.arb.ca.gov Air Board Adopts Measure to Reduce Pollution from School Bus Idling SACRAMENTO -- A measure adopted today by the California Air Resources Board (ARB) eliminates unnecessary idling for school buses and other heavy-duty vehicles, protecting children from unhealthful exhaust emissions. The main purpose of the measure is to reduce localized exposure to air toxics and other harmful air pollutants at and near schools. Restricted idling times at schools will not only protect our children from toxic air contaminants, but improve air quality in the surrounding area, said ARB Chairman Alan C. Lloyd. In addition to protecting childrens health, reducing motor vehicle emissions will benefit teachers, parents, bus maintenance workers and drivers, and people who live or work near schools. The measure is expected to save school districts and other operators up to $800,000 in fuel costs. More than 26,000 school buses operate in California
Re: [biofuels-biz] Bubble Drying and drying questions in general
Here are some links: http://www.cooplife.com/startcoop.htm http://web.uvic.ca/bcics/store/manual/ http://www.agecon.uga.edu/~gacoops/info10.htm http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/homestead/Countryside/Wcc7729cf1292d.htm http://www.agecon.uga.edu/~gacoops/coopinfo.htm http://www.coop.org/welcome.htm And this one in your neighborhood: http://www.icos.ie/content/content.asp?section_id=289 http://www.saos.co.uk/Co-operation/about_co-operation1.htm http://www.co-op.co.uk/index.html There are tons of links, just need to research them . ;-) James Slayden On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, martin.brook wrote: I wondered how official your cooperative is and do you have a formal constitution? I aam thinking of setting up a coop in the U.K. but all the standard constitutions seem too stiff, do you mind telling me how yours works and is it reasonbly stable or is there lots of grumbling going on? Martin, Biofuel. org .U.K.Ltd - Original Message - From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com; biofuel@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 6:48 AM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Bubble Drying and drying questions in general Apologies to those on multiple lists for all the cross-posting. I spammed a couple of the biofuel-related lists last week with some complaints about trying to make biodiesel in the midst of some dramatic local weather. We got the first real winter storm, serious rain- the Northern California version of winter is lots of rain and 60F. Not too much to complain about considering I've lived in Leningrad and in New York. But this weekend I wasn't too happy about the timing: my biodiesel equipment is all outside, and I had a lot of fuel that I had JUST finished washing, and it was time to let it 'dry' or 'settle'. But the weather out there was pounding down rain (the remnants of a Typhoon that hit Guam a few days earlier, it turns out). I'd just recently found some info, re-reading a couple of the the U of Idaho biodiesel reports, about bubble drying fuel. It somehow didn't make it into common homebrewers' practice, everyone I've talked to said, yeah, I remember reading that, but I didn't think about applying it to my situation. So I tried it out under the worst possible conditions- ran a bubblestone into a tank of hazy biodiesel that was carefully swathed in tarps (therefore no real opportunity for the moisture in the biodiesel to excape outside the now-closed tank)- and ran some severely humid air through it. People have different techniques and theories about 'drying' biodiesel after washing. Some people leave it in an open container, and claim that it clears up any water haze in anything from a day to a week. It sounds to me that the people doing this live in dry regions. We don't. Others (like Aleks Kac' published acid-base two-stage directions) say to let fuel settle for three weeks or so until it clears water haze. Other options include heating it to drive off water. There are some problems with this- among them, the fact that the MSDS for biodiesel says that biodiesel fumes are not harmful to health- unless heated. I was prepared to do this as I really needed some finished fuel, but I feel like it's not something to take lightly, besides the obvious unnecessary energy input. At our biodiesel coop, we do the 'settling' technique after washing fuel. Sometimes it takes 10 days, but quite often it is still hazy after that point. I was getting frustrated about having all of these drums of settling fuel sitting around at the co-op, taking up storage space, not clearing in the humid weather. It was the bottleneck that was messing up fuel production capacity- we store fuel to settle before washing, then we wash for three days and then we store it some more. And this is a 12' x 8' space in which we are trying to produce fuel for about 15-25 drivers (not very successfully). Sheesh. Seems like a common problem for small-scale homebrewers. So back to the wet weather bubbledrying- it worked to clear haze in that fuel, humid air and all. The 'technique' is to chuck an airstone into a tank of hazy fuel, and bubble for 24-? hours. It doesn't seem to make a really HUGE difference how much fuel you're working with- around here (in the humidity) Kenneth Kron cleared 3 gallons in 12+ hours, Mr.Biosmell cleared 55 gallons in similar conditions of humidity in under 24 hours, which seems about average for the several experiments with this so far (though in Nevada, Rainer Busch dried some fuel this way in 2-3 hours, in the dry desert air)... In the storm, buried under a thick lid of plastic tarp, my Wet Air treatment seemed to clear up a drum of hazy fuel in something like two days. (I didn't check after the first 24- I eventually got sick of wading outside
Re: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil)
Hrmm, algae for oil and the renderings for biomass . what a boon!! Actually algae is already being utilized for it's other properties on a large scale in the California Desert. Just need to move it over to BD processing. James Slayden On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Appal Energy wrote: Using liquid fuels to produce electricity for any other use than backup/emergency is not very efficient. The best source for electricity would be the dried biomass, sans seeds. ( ~16.8 million Btu per ton, 3 + tons per acre, 4,650 + kWh per acre). Heat would be the useable byproduct of the gasification (CHP - Continual Heat Power). Other alternative for the biomass is to implement pyrolytic conversion to manufacture methanol. That would amount to ~186 gallons of methanol per ton, or ~568 + gallons per acre. US DOE releases dated 1995 state a manufacturing cost of $0.20 a liter, with expectations of reducing those costs to ~$0.13 a liter. There literally is no other plant, save for perhaps algae (still in experimental stages), that can produce the same amount of biomass per acre in the same 90-120 day time period. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil) If these formerly waste materials are good for using as some transportation fuels (such as in tractors) I wonder if they couldn't also be used in generating electricity or heat. On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:12:43 -0500, you wrote: Tim, No hemp farmer in Canada or Europe is expending $600 per acre in order to get a $600 return. When you look at those who are cold pressing the seed for oil, you find that there is an inordinate amount of sludge that gets separated from the readily filterable oil. Cold pressing does not give the luxury of high immediate yields (although it does offer the luxury of solvent free) and due to the nature of the food grade oil business a great percentage of the oil is discarded as sludge. Eventually the sludge separates even further, leaving approximately 60% of what was discarded to be used for less than food grade purposes. This is the oil that would be used for biodiesel, not the intially pressed oil. At present, several of the oil producers in Canada are stockpiling their sludge. This has resulted in large quantities of hemp seed oil becoming available for fuel conversion. Considering the fact that this was once considered to be a waste product, utilizing it as farm fuel is not an unattractive end use. As well, the fines that settle out of the sludge are a superb chicken feed - yet another free product of what was once relegated to the category of waste. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Tim Castleman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:21 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Why not? (On farm fuel from hempseed oil) From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Hemp Fuel Conspiracy? Why not? I also wonder about farming (i.e., if a Hemp farmer could make just enough to forestall having to go off-farm for fuel, if this could be worth it to him, just for his own fuel needs... probably not.) This is one of those impossible questions, the answer will never satisfy because the fact is hemp cannabis HAS been deliberately repressed, several million $ is spent each year on eradication efforts on feral hemp, for example. DEA drug warriors are emotionally and financially attached to their work, and so perpetuate many lies and place many barriers. Perhaps the most insidious of which are the divisions within the cannabis/hemp/marijuana culture itself. This repression has prevented development of the crop per se, thus leaving us with the familiar chicken and egg scenario. Bottom line, when petroleum stays at $30 bbl, a plant-based economy will emerge. Meanwhile, yes, a farmer could grow hemp, harvest the seed and extract the oil for on farm use, but why would he with all the other oil crops available that will produce much more oil than hemp? In a practical sense, and most farmers are practical to a fault, to spend $600 or so to grow $600 or so worth of fuel only works with government subsidies. He would rather just buy it and save himself all that work! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo
Re: [biofuels-biz] City of Oakland holding a meeting aimed supporting local commercial biodiesel production
One would think that the Former Gov Brown would be all over this!! Great media opportunity also. ;-) On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Kenneth Kron wrote: Just thought I'd update the list. I've been working with with the sustainable development person in the planning department in Oakland, Carol Misseldine. Oakland is starting to understand what biodiesel is and is turning the beauracracy around to support it. No date for the meeting yet, the attendees include: city, business and community representatives. The current agenda is: KEY AGENDA ITEMS FOR A BIODIESEL MEETING IN OAKLAND Drafted by Carol Misseldine, Oakland Sustainable Development Initiative, 12/12/02 *1) What quantities of the following feedstocks are realistically available for biodiesel in Oakland?* Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO):// //Municipal Waste Stream: *2) Is biodiesel a realistic solution or partial solution for Oakland's air quality problems?* 3) How much of Oakland's diesel needs could be met with the above sources, including Oakland's City Fleet, Port trucks, public transit? 4) What are the economic and siting barriers and opportunities for local manufacture and distribution of biodiesel? *5) What are the emissions issues related to a biodiesel manufacturing facility?* *6) What are the zoning requirements for a biodiesel manufacturing facility?* /Catherine Payne, CEDA/ *7) What is the status of CARB's intent to rank biodiesel as an alternative fuel?* /Randall von Wedel/ *8) Other* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Special Alert -- Don't Delay! Register Now for the Biodiesel Research and Brainstorming Workshop
Would be nice if they had the sessions online for a marginal price package . Anyone from the NBB lurking?? ;-) James Slayden On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: If youre interested in learning about the latest biodiesel research and technical data from North Americas leading experts, register now for the Biodiesel Research and Brainstorming Workshop, January 29-30,2003, in New Orleans. Sponsored by the National Biodiesel Board (NBB), the US Department of Energy, and the US Department of Agriculture, the workshop is a must for biodiesel researchers and technical personnel, biodiesel fuel suppliers, engine and fuel injection equipment manufacturers, government agencies interested in funding biodiesel research and development, and other stakeholders. What about general all 'round alt-fuel trouble-makers? Are we excluded? :-) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Time Magazine features Direct Liquid Ethanol Fuel Cells
Just was perusing the Medis webpage, they seem to have some smaller eth battery technology they are going into. I am interested in the rotay engine they have as it could be useful for a hybrid application. MM, Biodiesel hybrid .. Guess Capstone is also a competing technology, might get even more bang for the buck. BTW, they seem to be focused on the portable market right now, but it seems to be the fuelcell growth pattern over the last few years to move into remote Telco applications before taking on larger projects. Ballard is really the only one serious about the transportation sector (so far). James Slayden On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 07:07:14 -0600, you wrote: For a while now I have had it in my mind that I should produce ethanol in my back yard from biomass. Make electricity from the ethanol. Then, use the electricity to power my home and sell the excess to the power company. Easy right. Any coments. I'd like to see more attempts at this, but quite often when I mention using biomass to make electricity, folks try to shoot it down because it is not as presently efficient as they would like to see. I think that it's a challenge worth exploring, particularly given new technologies such as fuel cells. I also strongly agree with Kirk that cogeneration can make-or-break whether this project is energy efficient. This was particularly true in fuel cells, in a table I once saw of their energy efficiencies. It was only with cogeneration, with some of them, that they got above the 40, 50, 60 percent marks. I really want to see ethanol fuel cells. Ethanol is the only fuel on the list of potential fuel cell fuels that the Petroleum Industry doesn't presently dominate, and it is, consequently (my opinion) not talked about nearly as often as other potential fuel cell fuels. When I spoke to Medis two years ago they had not yet got to the point where their Ethanol Fuel Cell technology could be readily scaled up to house-powering size. I don't know where they are at with that issue right now, nor do I know if theirs is best for such an attempt, because I think their ethanol fuel cell concepts necessitated some sort of secret ingredient aspect. My guess is that there are several companies whose cells could, with some effort, be adapted to ethanol use. MM Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] toxins in this season U.S. corn
Of Course, if someone out there in the growing belt gets a clue . ;-O lemme see make oil, turn into biodiesel, take cake, make into ethanol, use dried mash as heat source for ethanol process, use some of ethanol for biodiesel process, use sun for heating corn SVO Dunno, seems doable. ;-) James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: http://biz.yahoo.com/rm/021220/food_corn_toxin_1.html I wonder how they'll use some of it if it is deemed unfit for human consumption. Looks like they'll feed some of it to animals. I wonder if it can be used to make fuel. Reuters U.S. farmers form task force to fight corn toxins Friday December 20, 5:24 pm ET CHICAGO, Dec 20 (Reuters) - U.S. farmers have formed a task force to limit toxins in future corn crops after the worst outbreak of aflatoxin since 1988, an industry official said Friday. Our overall goal is to minimize the major mycotoxins (from corn) and we're going to be looking at that through a bunch of different avenues including hybrid research, said Paul Bertels, a grain quality specialist with the National Corn Growers Association. ADVERTISEMENT The task force will find ways to fund research into corn varieties resistant to toxins. It will also develop better sampling techniques at country elevators, Bertels told Reuters. The move comes after the highest levels of aflatoxin in 14 years were found in the U.S. Midwest corn crop after this summer's drought. Aflatoxin, a cancer-causing toxin found in moldy corn, can cause cancer in humans if consumed at high levels and can be deadly to young animals if they consume large amounts. It is usually found in the southern parts of the Corn Belt, especially Texas, where the crop often comes under heat stress. But this year's heat wave that plagued the heart of the Corn Belt in July and August put the Midwest crop at high risk for aflatoxin. High levels of aflatoxin were found not only in Texas and Nebraska but as far north as northern Illinois. The group will also seek to eliminate another corn mold, fumonisin, a fungus and cancer-causing substance that is also linked to human birth defects. Fumonisin is much more widespread than aflatoxin across the Midwest, thriving under heat and humid conditions. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has set aflatoxin limits for food consumption at 20 parts per billion. The maximum tolerance for livestock feed has been established at 300 parts per billion. FDA recommends fumonisin in food to be under five parts per million and under 100 parts per million in livestock feed. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers
Now this sounds really interesting!! Do you have a link to the Company?? James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, David Teal wrote: Quote from the Leeds University alumni magazine www.leeds.ac.uk/alumni : Fuel and energy researchers are hoping to use sunflower oil to produce hydrogen, a fuel of the future. Hydrogen has been attractive as a fuel because it can create electricity with no harmful emissions. Most methods of producing the gas, however, create pollution. Researchers are testing a pollution free system using only sunflower oil, air, water vapour and two special catalysts. David T. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers
Ah, thanks. On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, David Teal wrote: Sorry, direct ref should be: http://reporter.leeds.ac.uk/483/s3.htm Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers
It kinda sounds like they are also using some type of supercritical CO method for oil extraction, thus leaving a somewhat clean process. Todd, you have links to any white papers on CO to Methanol conversion? I haven't had much success before. Thanks, James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Appal Energy wrote: http://reporter.leeds.ac.uk/483/s3.htm All a bit elusive... quote: Most methods of producing hydrogen burn another fuel for energy, which itself creates pollution - carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and other emissions, said Dr Dupont. Our catalyst uses oxygen from the air to heat up naturally, and this heat is used to reform the oil with steam to create hydrogen. The excess carbon dioxide is taken into the second catalyst, then released for storage or use in other chemical processes, ensuring that damaging levels of CO2 aren't just put back into the atmosphere. Oxygen from the air to heat up naturally... Interesting. I wonder what their loss rate of catalyst, or energy cost to restore it if needed, or life cycle energy cost to refine it. They mention pyrolysis in a latter paragraph. Wonder where they get the damaging levels of CO2? If they were using the pyrolytic fuels from the process itself to perpetuate stripping (not creating) hydrogen they would be carbon neutral at worst, erego no damaging levels of CO2. Not to say that CO2 recovery is not intelligent, as it could be used to produce methanol as a useable byproduct, among other things. Todd Swearingen Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: Burning sunflowers
BYW, they might want to pick a seed with higher oil content. http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, hcr_ii [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Todd, when I was a student in this department there was quite a bit of work being done on the pyrolysis of coal. I suspect this is what they are talking about in this paragraph: Waste pyrolysis oil is currently burned as fuel, but this can be quite polluting, said Dr Dupont. Our system would still make use of its energy potential, while allowing the often noxious chemicals in the oil to be more easily controlled. i.e. 'waste' oil from a totally separate process, not the co-product of the steam reforming of sunflower oil. H --- In biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://reporter.leeds.ac.uk/483/s3.htm All a bit elusive... quote: Most methods of producing hydrogen burn another fuel for energy, which itself creates pollution - carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and other emissions, said Dr Dupont. Our catalyst uses oxygen from the air to heat up naturally, and this heat is used to reform the oil with steam to create hydrogen. The excess carbon dioxide is taken into the second catalyst, then released for storage or use in other chemical processes, ensuring that damaging levels of CO2 aren't just put back into the atmosphere. Oxygen from the air to heat up naturally... Interesting. I wonder what their loss rate of catalyst, or energy cost to restore it if needed, or life cycle energy cost to refine it. They mention pyrolysis in a latter paragraph. Wonder where they get the damaging levels of CO2? If they were using the pyrolytic fuels from the process itself to perpetuate stripping (not creating) hydrogen they would be carbon neutral at worst, erego no damaging levels of CO2. Not to say that CO2 recovery is not intelligent, as it could be used to produce methanol as a useable byproduct, among other things. Todd Swearingen Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] SUV, truck owners get a big tax break
Now, it certainly doesn't say gas or diesel ;-) looking at the list, the Dodge Ram 2500 seems like a nice little pickup (hehehehehe). Time to start that business Yummie: http://www.dodge.com/ram_hd/model_overview/index.html James Slayden On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Keith Addison wrote: http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0212/18/c01-38875.htm - 12/18/02 Wednesday, December 18, 2002 David Coates / The Detroit News Karl Wizinsky, a health care consultant in Novi, was able to write off $32,000 of the $47,000 purchase price of a Ford Excursion as a business expense. It's perfectly legal, and accountants and auto dealers are starting to catch on. SUV, truck owners get a big tax break Loophole allows hefty write-off for vehicles By Jeff Plungis / Detroit News Washington Bureau Eligible vehicles Here are the 38 light truck models that qualify for an extra $24,000 accelerated depreciation tax break: BMW X5 Cadillac Escalade Chevy Astro Chevy Avalanche Chevy Express Chevy Silverado Chevy Suburban Chevy Tahoe Dodge Durango Dodge Ram Van Dodge Ram Maxi Van Dodge Ram Wagon Dodge Ram 1500 Dodge Ram 2500 Dodge Ram 3500 Ford Excursion Ford Expedition Ford Econoline E-150 Ford Econoline E-250 Ford Econoline E-350 Ford F-150 Ford F-250 Ford F-350 GMC Yukon GMC Safari GMC Savana GMC Sierra GMC Sierra Denali Land Rover Discovery Land Rover Range Rover Lincoln Blackwood Lincoln Navigator Mercedes ML 320 Mercedes ML 500 Mercedes ML55 AMG Toyota Land Cruiser Toyota Sequoia Toyota Tundra Comment on this story Send this story to a friend Get Home Delivery WASHINGTON -- Karl Wizinsky wasn't thinking about buying a new vehicle, and certainly not a big SUV. So why is there a brand-new $47,000 Ford Excursion sitting in his driveway? He was able to write off $32,000 of the purchase price as a business expense. We really did it because it was a pretty hefty deduction, said Wizinsky, a health care consultant in Novi. At the same time the tax code sanctions $30,000 write-offs for SUVs, prospective purchasers of a fuel-efficient hybrid vehicles qualify for a relatively small $4,000 tax credit. A deal to extend similar tax credits to other environmentally friendly vehicles remains stalled in Congress. It's all legal, and accountants and auto dealers are beginning to catch on. If it can save the consumer money, it's most likely that the dealer is going to know about it, said Andrew Beck, spokesman for the National Automobile Dealers Association. So far, there is no indication anyone in Congress wants to close the loophole. In fact, even higher depreciation tax breaks are on the table as part of the next round of tax cuts President Bush is planning. The SUV tax break is becoming a staple of advice in the accounting world, as small business owners such as Wizinsky are advised on ways to reduce end-of-the-year tax bills. The size of the tax break has been growing under a schedule that became law in 1996. That's when Congress changed tax law to encourage business investment. The scale of the tax break surprises accountants and tax experts, who feel bound to recommend SUVs and other light trucks to small-business clients. As I understood it, the reason (for the tax break) is to encourage business investment. That's what happened in my case, Wizinsky said. At the same time, the tax break seems to contradict other national goals, such as improving vehicle fuel efficiency. A more economical fleet would aid two important national goals: reducing U.S. dependence on foreign oil and cutting greenhouse gasses. The total cost of the loophole hasn't been calculated by the government, but Taxpayers for Common Sense, a nonpartisan Washington watchdog group, estimates the SUV tax loophole could cost taxpayers between $840 million and $987 million for every 100,000 vehicles sold to businesses. Aileen Roder, the group's program director, questioned whether there is a national need to subsidize sales of the largest light trucks -- given Americans are buying SUVs in record numbers. This is one of the most lucrative breaks in the tax code, Roder said. We're making it a fiscal no-brainer for businesses to buy giant SUVs. To get an idea of the scale of the SUV tax break, a credit aimed at making it easier for small businesses to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act costs $525 million per 100,000 uses. A tax credit to reimburse teachers for classroom supplies annually costs the treasury $250 million per 100,000 uses. And a provision allowing taxpayers to put up to $3,000 of tax-free earnings per year in private retirement accounts costs about $90 million per 100,000 taxpayers, according to Taxpayers for Common Sense. There are long-standing limits on deductions to prevent taxpayers from subsidizing
[biofuels-biz] Bruning Feed and Grain
Hola Everyone, http://www.bruninggrainco.com/pdf%27s/electric.pdf Note the more environmental extraction process. Also note the concern for Mad Cow and Hoof Mouth from (I suppose) rendering?! I can only guess when the article talks about non-natural meal products it means animal renderings and also WVO included into the meal. Yuck!! Glad to see that someone in the industry is actually speaking about it. Good selling point also. Now, just get rid of the GMO's and the chemicals in the AG. Hey, for all those BD'lers out there, it indicates that their oil is lower in FFA's due to their extraction process. I wonder if this has been tested? James Slayden Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Australia puts off imposing cap on ethanol in fuel
When I lived in Illinois in the late 70's, they had just started selling Gassahol (10%eth, 90%gas), and I started using it. Within 2 months the fuel filter clogged due to the tank clearing. Just replaced the fuel filter and all was well. Didn't seem to be any effect on the rubber parts at all. BTW, I had a 350 Camaro (hopped up of course) and it did way better on the gassahol than standard petrol. I used to street race it sometimes . but that is another story better left unsaid. James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: Trials conducted in NSW on their own vehicle fleet since 1992 by Park Petroleum, and in the wider NSW fleet since 1994, clearly indicate that the wide range of new and advanced technologies introduced into the global vehicle fleet over the past twenty years provide vehicles with the capacity to operate on higher ethanol blends without experiencing drivability or operability difficulties. This is really what I'm after. The rest, while interesting and relevant, is not at the heart of it. I'm aware, for example, that an attempt to limit things to 10%, if unwarranted, is just a pretext by the petroleum companies to keep most of their monopoly on providing fuel for transportation. One thing on my mind is that if there are any differences or effects, or even just something minor that a new user of a 20% ethanol blend might need to know in order to be better prepared for any effects, then it's arguable that they should have some labeling might help such drivers. But I guess a decent widespread publicity campaign (your fuel filter may temporarily be clogged due to long-term buildup of this or that, here is what to do about that) would also help. Why would there be damage? What damage has there been in Brazil, the US, and elsewhere, where millions or billions of miles have been driven on higher blends than that, without damage or being stopped cold by water? What damage has there been in Autralia? If there was any actual damage it would surely have been trundled out rather than an outboard motor that might stall or something. I have never used an appreciable amount of ethanol in a vehicle. Once or twice over the years I've seen angry or upset letters of drivers who have traveled to an area where ethanol was introduced to their cars and they believed it has caused a problem or two. So, I do not wish to dismiss out-of-hand the idea that there could be an adverse affect upon vehicle performance from introduction of ethanol where it has not been used before, or where its amount had previously been at lower percentages. Adverse performance might be something as simple as temporarily clogged fuel filter, or something worse that I don't appreciate. I figure I'll ask the question, since it's being raised, and since possibly others are reluctant to ask. Obviously, the over-riding issue is that the Petroleum Monopoly is being unethical and spreading disinformation. In order for me to sort the information from the disinformation (the most effective lies having just enough truth to them) I need to look around a bit. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Methane to Methanol was Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers
Thanks Todd. Yep, I have looked at a search stream before, and have read a significant amount, but have not found exactly what I was looking for. But the link you sent on landfill gas is!! :) James Slayden On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, Appal Energy wrote: Personally, no white papers in hand. But a Google search for 'Methane conversion Methanol' will give you weeks of bedtime reading material. Even a few methods on how to produce acetic acid, but unfortunately too much methanol is derived at the same time...Go figger! Conversion process using landfill gas... http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/proceedings/97/97ng/ng97_pdf /NGP4.PDF Conversion process using natural gas... http://www.aeeseap.org/conf2000/contents/09/0903.pdf Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Burning sunflowers It kinda sounds like they are also using some type of supercritical CO method for oil extraction, thus leaving a somewhat clean process. Todd, you have links to any white papers on CO to Methanol conversion? I haven't had much success before. Thanks, James Slayden On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Appal Energy wrote: http://reporter.leeds.ac.uk/483/s3.htm All a bit elusive... quote: Most methods of producing hydrogen burn another fuel for energy, which itself creates pollution - carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and other emissions, said Dr Dupont. Our catalyst uses oxygen from the air to heat up naturally, and this heat is used to reform the oil with steam to create hydrogen. The excess carbon dioxide is taken into the second catalyst, then released for storage or use in other chemical processes, ensuring that damaging levels of CO2 aren't just put back into the atmosphere. Oxygen from the air to heat up naturally... Interesting. I wonder what their loss rate of catalyst, or energy cost to restore it if needed, or life cycle energy cost to refine it. They mention pyrolysis in a latter paragraph. Wonder where they get the damaging levels of CO2? If they were using the pyrolytic fuels from the process itself to perpetuate stripping (not creating) hydrogen they would be carbon neutral at worst, erego no damaging levels of CO2. Not to say that CO2 recovery is not intelligent, as it could be used to produce methanol as a useable byproduct, among other things. Todd Swearingen Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: ETHANOL IN CALIFORNIA
Um, why do people forget about Arkenol??!! They have been around actually doing cellulosic ethanol already in the Sacramento area test plant. http://www.arkenol.com/ I have read up on all of Novozymes, but remember they are biotech, and that is something that should be carefully considered. James Slayden On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: Very interesting. The inclusion of Genencor and Novozymes is interesting because they're the sort of cellulosic sourcing that has been mentioned (by DOE study) as make-or-break for getting waste-to-ethanol going and making ethanol more economical in California and elsewhere. It was an alternative-energy fund manager who mentioned Gcor to me when he was looking around for ethanol investments. On Tue, 24 Dec 2002 13:13:28 +0900, you wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 16:38:46 EST Subject: ETHANOL IN CALIFORNIA To: (a helluva lot of people, including me) The American Coalition for Ethanol and The Clean Fuels Development Coalition are pleased to announce a workshop to be held in Sacramento California on February 6th . ETHANOL IN CALIFORNIA: OPPORTUNITIES FOR INCREASED UTILIZATION AND PRODUCTION will feature representatives from industry and government such as the California Energy Commission the California Department of Food and Agriculture General Motors Corporation, ConocoPhillips Genencor International Novozymes of North America, Inc., and others. The workshop will be held at the Radisson Hotel in Sacramento Registration fee is just $99.00. You can register online through www.ethanol.org/caconference.htmwww.ethanol.org/caconference.htm or call Wendy Buren at 605-334-3381. Hotel Registration is through the Radisson at 916-922-7353. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Fwd: ETHANOL IN CALIFORNIA
On the note of SSPC, I recently called them to for some brokering info on their fuel (about a week ago) and still no call back. Prolly just the holidays . but, this is the kind of lack of response that I have gotten before. They must be doing well to ignore folks. ;-) James Slayden On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, murdoch wrote: On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:39:19 -0800 (PST), you wrote: Um, why do people forget about Arkenol??!! They have been around actually doing cellulosic ethanol already in the Sacramento area test plant. http://www.arkenol.com/ Well, until this moment I had never heard of them (or perhaps I've run across them once or twice and forgotten). Let me check on something. [checking] genencor: GCOR Novozymes: nvzmf.pk Southern States Power: SSPC arkenol: apparently not publicly traded. This is not a criticism. In fact, quite the contrary, I admire the heck out of private businesses and often find it quite refreshing to see web pages offering news and product information without a link to investor relations. But, for better or worse, when a company's owners sell out to the marketplace of publicly traded companies, their stock becomes a chip in the casino and attracts all manner of interest. Sometimes that's really all it ever is. SSPC for example has been a disappointment for years and, in my view, was (or still is?) run by *extremely* poor management who did *not* put their best into the biofuel cause. They might even have been conscious looters, but that's a difficult diagnosis to make, as I am just judging by past management compensation levels and business-levels (or *lack* thereof), along with a couple of other clues. I still have some incurable hope for them, but it's kind of pathetic. The others I have not looked at in years, although like I said, GCOR was mentioned to me by a fund manager so they did attract some interest. Anyway, I'll try to remember to watch arkenol. MM Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] OT: Perspective on US Oil Dependencies
Looks good. James Slayden On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: I wrote the following for publication at Energy Saving Now, please look, comment, correct and suggest a good heading, I took the heading for this discussion as a temporary one and maybe it is the best. I would also be happy if Keith could look at the language. Perspective on Oil Dependencies --- It does not take much knowledge in mathematics to understand that the equations in the demand and supply situation is impossible. See attached article from New York Times [Dec 27, 2002] WASHINGTON Dec. 25 (will be a link on the site). We have said this many times in our discussions. Middle East have 70% of the oil reserves, Iraq and Saudi Arabia have more than half of those. According to professor Hubbert's calculations for production from finite resources, Middle east is at the moment at the peak of production capacity and will not have the capacity to meet the demands. professor Hubbert's methods have proven to be quite accurate during the last 50 years of experiences from them. It is no relief for the world and it is no escape from the dependence of Middle East oil reserves. North America who is taking around a third of the current oil production, or half of the industrialized countries use of oil, is already at a difficult junction. They have to chose if they are going to secure the oil supplies by force and occupation or trust democratic and peaceful means. The peaceful route is very insecure, especially with the current Israel - Palestine problem, that have to be solved very fast if it should be possible. Israel is a loose canon with its current policies of occupation and suppression. US and UK are in favor of the occupation of Iraq. They would in this case secure the Iraqi oil and with enough troops in Iraq, they would have sufficient pressure on Saudi Arabia to make them walk the line. Iraq with Saddam Hussein nor the Palestine resistant movements are smart enough to realize that a confrontation policy is at this time the worst they can do, since it gives US and UK the alibi for occupation. All alternatives in this equation is high risk games and can backfire, the occupation alternative has a very short window of opportunity, if it should have any excuses based on war against terrorism or weapons of mass destruction. Passing this window, an occupation have to be done in the light of a brutal and illegal occupation, against a popular world opinion including and the popular support in UK and US. that maybe make it impossible to do. The oil industry are not helping and are basically divided in two camps. The Dutch based Shell and some other minor oil companies, against the US, UK and other major oil companies. It is almost pathetic to see the resistant towards ethanol and biodiesel/SVO, with the propaganda war in Australia as the current and most visible example. It is also pathetic to see the slow phase of implementing energy saving measures. This in a time when our achievements the next 10 to 20 years are going to be the most crucial in modern times. For emerging industrial nations and developing countries, it is no space in the oil equation. It does not take much of mathematical and political knowledge to come to this conclusion. The only road to continuing development is aggressive energy conservation and alternative energy sources. The successes are gong to be measured in how fast the can develop oil independence. Hakan At 12:00 AM 12/30/2002 -0800, murdoch wrote: Growing U.S. Need for Oil From the Mideast Is Forecast Despite White House statements, US growing more dependent on Saudi oil. Source: New York Times [Dec 27, 2002] WASHINGTON Dec. 25 As President Bush seeks to reduce American reliance on oil imported from the Persian Gulf, new government studies predict that in two decades the West will be even more dependent on oil from Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern producers. Mr. Bush, asked a week ago on the ABC News program 20/20 about the importance of Saudi Arabian oil, said that we must have an energy policy that diversifies away from dependency on foreign sources of oil including some that don't like America. Late last month, the Department of Energy's Energy Information Administration forecast that in 2025 the majority 51 percent of world oil production would come from the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries. About two-thirds of OPEC production, in turn, emanates from the Persian Gulf. The Energy Information Administration, or E.I.A., says OPEC now produces 38 percent of the world's oil. The information administration projects that Saudi Arabia will need to produce 22 million barrels a day by 2020 to meet increased world demand, far in excess of its current production of about 8 million barrels. We're going to rely more and more on the Middle East
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] BD at $1.50/gallon?!
Hi Andrew, This is what I was asking of Keith a few weeks (months) ago. He indicated that it would be almost impossible to maintain due to price flucuations within the market. Prices across the board are very different at present as there is no futures market for biodiesel (yet!!). Also, since the product can be produced with different feedstocks and the prices associated with those, distribution costs, brokering costs, etc As you can see it can be a daunting task. I think if all you wanted was a baseline for general BD costs in various areas, that would be fine. If your trying to define a business plan on some hard numbers it might be more difficult. Comparing the cost of Dino Diesel(DD) to BD is not really productive since the product DD is a fairly well known process and most of the manufactures do it in a similar way. BD on the other had as explained above has some wildly varying price points. Another thing that will inhibit a cross comparision is that DD is subsidized and BD is not. Here is an example; over the weekend I was helping to make fuel at the Berkley Biodiesel Co-op and was talking to a person who lives in SF on how much he pays for his BD. He indicated that it was over $3 a gallon!! I was supprised that it was so much, but when one compares this unsubsidized price to the subsidized price of DD (~$1.50 - $1.85 depending on where one lives), it doesn't look half bad. Somewhere it was noted that the true price for a gallon of gas was ~$18. Of course we don't see that true cost as we pay for it in our taxes. I still think that your pricing project is noble and can only benefit all. :) James Slayden On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Andrew Hoppin wrote: If anyone does pull together a list of BD prices at pumps around the US or around the world, I'll volunteer to put it all on a color-coded (by price) map for everyone so that we can get a big picture view of where BD is currently competitive price-wise... It would help greatly if the cost of fossil diesel at the same pumps were also collected at the same time, so that we can compare. For the US, NBB has a partial list of public pumps, petroleum distributors that sell it, and direct BD suppliers, complete with phone numbers to contact them all and inquire about their prices... www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/guide/ Cheers, Andrew N Space Labs, Inc. www.NSpaceLabs.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 212.219.0851 (office) 646.221.5602 (mobile) 594 Broadway, #611 NY, NY 10012 The Biofuel Business Development Project http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/ Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact On the Long-Range Future of Humanity Message: 2 Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2003 13:23:46 -0800 From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [biofuel] BD at $1.50/gallon?! On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:45:06 -0800 (PST), you wrote: Hey Keith, On that note, it would be great to pull together a table to get prices around the US/World for BD. Prices need to be verified by a scanned reciept or picture of the pump though. It would help people to decide if they want to buy or produce themselves based just on pump cost. It might also help if BD were traded on one or more of the major exchanges. At least, in my view. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] oil @ $33 per barrel
Todd, thanks for the humor. You made my day!! On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Appal Energy wrote: Aye, but it's not just the oil prices that are going to freak people out at the pumps or when paying the tab for home heating oil. Have an ailing airline industry tetering on the brink? Higher fares = less customers which equals increased tailspin. Have a struggling economy and a president who hopes to blue blazes consumers go out and buy, buy, buy? Not on your life if the cost of goods start going up as a result of increase fuel costs. Which equals another tailspin on consumer purchases. Fewer purchases = more layoffs. More layoffs = fewer purchases. Have a war being staged in the wings that will inevitably disrupt oil economics, especially when already in a destabilized price escalation mode? Well gee Rummy! Maybe we should hold off a bit on the moral imperitive (or was that oil imperitive) so we can keep our poll ratings stablized. Jimmy Carter is probably shaking his head in amazement at how stupidly repetetive all this continues to be, decade after decade. Fireside chat with G.W. Shrub anyone? Hopefully he'll wear something a little more functional than a golf sweater. Maybe he'll even reinstall those solar collectors atop the White House that uncle Ronny had removed right after his election in 1980. At times like this, perhaps the world should be thankful for how Florida turned over so that the ignorance of US oil/foreign policy can be magnified enough for even the most near sighted. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 9:44 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] oil @ $33 per barrel http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/dowjones/20030103/ bs_dowjones/200301031651000359 Nothing special in this article, just linking it for the price-reference. It is interesting to see Venezuela exacerbating the situation (as though a gulf war wouldn't already drive prices up). Not mentioned is the issue of the Strategic Reserve. I hope that the price of oil goes up because the sooner we see some of the reality of our importation needs, the better. But, on the issue of the reserve, my recollection is I read an article a few weeks ago wondering aloud if President Bush would tap into it if a war came and claiming that arguably an error by his father had been to not go into it soon enough during the previous Gulf War. I hope this President keeps making the same error. In a way it's understandable. I warship or an F-16 can't exactly wage war without some oil. In the long run, it'll be best for the States, I think, to understand the consequences of our oil setup. What's good for Exxon-Mobil is not necessarily the same thing as what's good for citizens of The United States. This article seems to have looked at the reserve question last week: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/nm/20021230/bs_nm/ energy_congress_dc_4 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HGTV Dream Home Giveaway Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] oil @ $33 per barrel
actually MM, Rayon is made from corn starch and some nasty chemicals. :) On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, murdoch wrote: Have a struggling economy and a president who hopes to blue blazes consumers go out and buy, buy, buy? Not on your life if the cost of goods start going up as a result of increase fuel costs. Which equals another tailspin on consumer purchases. I used to have a rule in going clothing shopping to avoid, as much as possible, any artificial materials. But I must confess recently some of them seem better-done. I still try to avoid them, but if oil prices go up, so too might some clothing prices, and not that insignificantly. Even if made 12,000 miles away, a shirt with rayon or whatever in it will cost a bit more. At times like this, perhaps the world should be thankful for how Florida turned over so that the ignorance of US oil/foreign policy can be magnified enough for even the most near sighted. It's been surreal watching this happen, and will continue to be. It's possible that you are correct that it is perhaps better to see this play out sooner rather than later. I think the President caresto do his job and to see the U.S. to a bright future, but there are times when he seems to care more about protecting the Status Quo of Exxon-Mobil and GM. MM Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Americans for Fuel Efficient Cars, Arianna Huffington, and The Detroit Project
Might just be better to contact her via email: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] James Slayden On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Andrew Hoppin wrote: Arianna Huffington has put together a project to air hard-hitting ads drawing a link between fuel inefficiency and terrorism, with the support of the Hollywood honchos behind Seinfeld, Pulp Fiction, Good Will Hunting, Got Milk, etc. Nice to see this, in part because Arianna Huffington has considerable conservative credentials and therefore may get some new constituencies to listen to her that would not otherwise listen with an open mind... Now we just need to chat with her about BD... Here's her project: http://www.ariannaonline.com/suv/index.html And here's and article about how network affiliates are refusing to air the ad. Hmmm... Do you think network affiliates care about ad dollars from car companies? http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/national/article/0,1406,KNS_350_1657737,00.html Cheers, Andrew The Biofuel Business Development Project http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/ Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact On the Long-Range Future of Humanity N Space Labs, Inc. --- www.NSpaceLabs.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 212.219.0851 (office) 646.221.5602 (mobile) 594 Broadway, #611 NY, NY 10012 Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] bumper stickers- let's make 'em! :)
Andrew, If you have been around vehicles burning Biodiesel any amount of time you begin to recognize the scent, which is very distinct in it's own right. The fuel itself also has a very distinct scent, which IMHO is wonderful. No need to change the recognition factor, although it might appeal to those who like to burn inscense or essential oils. The only issue with this is that some people don't like to be blasted with scents they can't control, and there might be some sensitivities out there to certain things. James Slayden On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Andrew Hoppin wrote: I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on bumper stickers / PR... I like boycott OPEC themes... What other cool slogans/ideas do people have? If we can throw out brilliant ideas and vote on them, I know some good designers, so I'll take it on to get some made up and make them available to anyone who wants them at cost. I also like the idea that Yokayo is thinking of putting essential oils scents in BD-- might be nice to standardize the scent for B20, B100, etc... if consumers came to recognize that when they smell pine coming out of a car it means that's it's running B100, that could be powerful. I was told by a friend who used to work at DigiScents that our sense of smell is the most poweful scent we have in terms of Mnemonic power. Cheers, Andrew The Biofuel Business Development Project http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/ Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact On the Long-Range Future of Humanity -- N Space Labs, Inc. www.NSpaceLabs.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 212.219.0851 (office) 646.221.5602 (mobile) 594 Broadway, #611 NY, NY 10012 Message: 10 Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:44:43 -0800 From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: bumper stickers for biofuel use? On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:14:34 -0800 (PST), you wrote: http://www.veggieavenger.com/store/propaganda.shtml That is Bill's warez. Dunno, there has to be something more out there. #13 and 16 look ok, outside of the annoying (for these purposes, to me) URL. 8 and 9 also seem ok I guess. It's something. I mean, if you have a simple straightforward statement, then it makes clear that your car is running on a renewable. This is somewhat less obvious with a diesel VW than with an EV1, so maybe it would be of value to those who do it. They go to a lot of trouble, some of them, to find or make biofuels, and one might as well clue people in that the car is running something special. With EVs, I know that folks learn a bit just by seeing the cars and realizing that they exist and work better than has been presented in some forums. If you've ever driven an EV1 around a city, you know it's an eye-catcher and you'll get some thumbs-up and such. With biofueled cars, might as well make the most of the chance to educate and market. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] bumper stickers- let's make 'em! :)
http://www.oshkoshbygosh.org/ some scathing political humor (posters, bumper stickers and T-shirts available!!) On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: Andrew, I think that it is very little to achieve in negative themes like boycott OPEC. This kind of themes is participation in a very dirty propaganda campaign preparing for armed conflicts. The reason is that US is ready to go to occupation war to secure the oil deliveries from the two largest oil reserve countries in the world, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Without securing the deliveries from them, US will be in serious immediate trouble and a disastrous situation one or two decades down the line. http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/oildependencies.shtml The only constructive way to deal with this must be promotion of alternatives. Which if successful, would really have a boycotting effect and reduce risks of violent conflicts. So I suggest all kind of bumper stickers that promote energy conservation, biofuel, etc. Hakan At 11:28 AM 1/9/2003 -0500, you wrote: I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on bumper stickers / PR... I like boycott OPEC themes... What other cool slogans/ideas do people have? If we can throw out brilliant ideas and vote on them, I know some good designers, so I'll take it on to get some made up and make them available to anyone who wants them at cost. I also like the idea that Yokayo is thinking of putting essential oils scents in BD-- might be nice to standardize the scent for B20, B100, etc... if consumers came to recognize that when they smell pine coming out of a car it means that's it's running B100, that could be powerful. I was told by a friend who used to work at DigiScents that our sense of smell is the most poweful scent we have in terms of Mnemonic power. Cheers, Andrew The Biofuel Business Development Project http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/ Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact On the Long-Range Future of Humanity -- N Space Labs, Inc. www.NSpaceLabs.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 212.219.0851 (office) 646.221.5602 (mobile) 594 Broadway, #611 NY, NY 10012 Message: 10 Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:44:43 -0800 From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: bumper stickers for biofuel use? On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:14:34 -0800 (PST), you wrote: http://www.veggieavenger.com/store/propaganda.shtml That is Bill's warez. Dunno, there has to be something more out there. #13 and 16 look ok, outside of the annoying (for these purposes, to me) URL. 8 and 9 also seem ok I guess. It's something. I mean, if you have a simple straightforward statement, then it makes clear that your car is running on a renewable. This is somewhat less obvious with a diesel VW than with an EV1, so maybe it would be of value to those who do it. They go to a lot of trouble, some of them, to find or make biofuels, and one might as well clue people in that the car is running something special. With EVs, I know that folks learn a bit just by seeing the cars and realizing that they exist and work better than has been presented in some forums. If you've ever driven an EV1 around a city, you know it's an eye-catcher and you'll get some thumbs-up and such. With biofueled cars, might as well make the most of the chance to educate and market. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] warning on methanol safety and respirators- biodieselers please read
hrmm, it looks as if thte reuse period is more ciritical than anything else; ie. if it goes beyond a few days of non-use then migration starts to happen. BTW, did OSHA have any suggestions for alternatives? James Slayden On Thu, 9 Jan 2003, girl mark wrote: My friend Jeff Biosmell just took a long look at OSHA (US industrial safety regulator) and other safety regulations regarding handling of methanol. Some scary stuff turned up that a lot of us didn't know, and that many are basing our biodiesel-making practice on. I feel especially responsible due to all of the people in the classes I've taught, since we focused strongly on organic vapor cartridge respirator safety and it turned out to be dangerously inaccurate information: It turns out that organic vapor cartridge respirators are useless against methanol vapors. I imagine that this also means that such a respirator will not protect you from any vapors arising from the agitation and settling portion of the biodiesel making process, as methanol will vaporize during this process to some extent in an open processor (obviously many people use a completely enclosed processor to protect themselves from poisonous vapors). Methanol handling/methoxide mixing can be done in a completely enclosed environment as well, rather easily and inexpensively, so don't panic, but it's time to get rid of all our open-tank methoxide mixers (a la Tickell). I devised a decent carboy-based non-mechanically-agitated system to minimise methoxide handling here (look at journeytoforever.org for the 'methoxide the easy way' description, it's the start of that carboy system I've got) which can then be plumbed into a closed processor easily. there are many other ways that others have accomplished this as well. I have copied some info below (I believe it might be from the 3M site, but what I saw from more 'neutral' sources was very similar to 3M's recommendation not to use organic vapor cartridges for longer than a few hours max) OSHA and the other safety regulators all had the same answer when we called them: no organic vapor cartridge respirator will protect against methanol vapors, only a supplied-air system will do so. Here's some more info, I don't remember which source it's from: Q. Can chemical cartridges be used for more than one shift? Organic vapors are removed by the process of adsorption. Weak physical forces hold the organic vapor on the activated carbon. Since these forces are weak, the process can be reversed and the organic vapor can be desorbed. Desorption during storage or nonuse periods can result in the migration of the chemical through the cartridge. Migration is mainly a concern only for organic vapor cartridges. Organic vapors adsorbed on an organic vapor cartridge can migrate through the carbon bed without airflow. Desorption of very volatile contaminants can occur after a short period (hours) without use (e.g., overnight). Partial use of the chemical cartridge and subsequent reuse could potentially expose the user to the contaminant. This is most significant for the most volatile and poorly retained organic vapors (e.g., boiling point 65â C). For organic vapors with a boiling point less than 65â C, it is recommended that the organic vapor cartridge never be used longer than one shift even if the estimated service life is greater than 8 hours and the cartridge is used for only a short time during the shift. However, a boiling point of 65 oC is not a fine line between chemicals that migrate and those that do not. Chemicals with boiling points greater than 65 oC can still migrate, but the nonuse period of concern may be longer than above. For chemicals with boiling points greater than 65 oC, nonuse or storage periods of a few days, like over a weekend, may be the concern. For these chemicals, (e.g., ethyl acetate, boiling point 77oC), reuse should not be allowed after two days of nonuse even if the service life estimate would suggest it. As the volatility decreases migration will become less of a concern. Your reuse pattern should still be carefully evaluated even for these less volatile chemicals. Chemicals with low volatility will give long service lives, but even in these situations use should probably not extend beyond a week or two even if the service life estimate is longer. For workers that use their respirators intermittently and perhaps in different environments, such as a maintenance worker or inspector, the organic vapor cartridges should never be reused. The user can conduct desorption studies, mimicking the work conditions of use and nonuse, to determine acceptable patterns of reuse. The ANSI Z88.2-1992 American National Standard for Respiratory Protection recommends that organic vapor cartridges be changed daily unless desorption studies support longer use. For more detail on chemical bed migration see: Reuse of Organic
Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: cooperating on a veg. oil biofuel project in Calif.
Len, I am interested, can you tell me more? James Slayden On Tue, 14 Jan 2003, Len Walde wrote: I am exploring the establishment of a veg oil recycling/ biofuel project. and need someone with the technical and business know-how to provide the expertise to set this up. The project would be in the Central Valley of Calif. I need someone with the credentials to provide the on-site consulting to help put this together. Anyone interested? BTW: There is sufficient $$ avilable in the total project to do this. Please respond to the list and cc me directly please. Thanks, Len Walde, P.E. Sigma Energy Engineering, Inc. Renewable Energy, Process Engineering Serving Agriculture, Industry Commerce through Symbiotic Recycling tm Ph: 925-254-7633 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [evworld] Re: bumper stickers- let's make 'em! :)
Cool!! Like Real Californians Eat x. I really like that one. Thanks for the suggestion Murdoch!! Hey Hakan, you might also want to include the SVO'rs out there, Real Californian's Use SVO or Real Californian's Use WVO (acroynm's could be expanded). James Slayden On Sun, 26 Jan 2003, murdoch wrote: On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 02:45:31 +0100, you wrote: Hi, Suggestions at, http://energy.saving.nu/stickers/ Hakan You've been very industrious. I would suggest for the Californian one you add the word Real (e.g. Real Californians Use Biofuel). I sort of like the Supply and Demand Biofuels Now! one and I think The Support your local Economy one would be ok if you got rid of the word instead (i.e., just Use Biofuels is probably ok, although I understand the word instead relates to the picture). I can see some that I'd consider putting on my vehicle. Of course, one thing that comes up, since this is sort of about marketing and getting a message across quickly and the difficulty of staying with what you want to say, is that we all have somewhat different ideas or agendas, so common ground is not always possible. But in any case I see some that I'd consider. I wonder if they'd be easy to print out as they are, or if they'd come out better to have some online place charge a fee, one could send them a picture, and they could send one sticker? I think that was the problem I ran into before... you had to buy a minimum of several hundred, and since these have color they'd be even more. But I have a cruddy printer at home, so that affects my ability to project doing these myself. I like the way it worked with putting the URL on the stickers. It gives it a personal touch, where one could see it and have an idea of what's up. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HGTV Dream Home Giveaway To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Interesting Customer perception note
Hola, In talking with someone recently who is interested in purchasing some biodiesel, and interesting comment came up in our email exchange. He indicated that he was more interested in biodiesel made from crude VO than that made of WVO. I was trying to convince him that the WVO option was better due to the recyclable nature of the WVO, but he insisted that the CO sequestering was better of the more recent growing cycle. I had a difficult time convincing him that it was the same but oh well. He didn't even care about the GMO feedstock issue!! I guess what this leaves me with is a customer perception problem of crude VO vs. WVO based biodiesel. I am wondering why that perception issue exists and how to overcome it in talking w/ people who are not biodiesel geeks. I know that most of the folks at the Berkley BD Co-op are religiously pro-WVO BD and will absolutely not put GMO-VO biodiesel in their vehicles. So there is the dichotomy in interest of the different feedstocks for biodiesel. Any thoughts? James Slayden Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Interesting Customer perception note
Hey Ed, Out here in Cali there might be sensitivity to it, and on that note it kinda defeats the purpose of the carbon sequestering and being a renewable. I think that securing a known feedstock will be of value for marketing purposes. I was thinking along the lines of having different 'grades' of fuel based on feedstock. It could be used very effectively in a marketing campaign. Something like the following: B100-M = Mixed feedstock source (could be animal, vegetable, SVO, or WVO, GMO and/or non-GMO) B100-V = Vegetable based feedstock (GMO or non-GMO, but not Organic) B100-O = Organic based feedstock V and O could be used together in the following manner: B100-VO = Vegetable and Organic feedstock It would be a good thing to distinguish the product from other producers as well as maybe trademarking some nifty name for the product. Although it is really a 'perception' issue, it is a great marketing tool that can be used to one's advantage. It would be difficult to convince people of the carbon sequestering of animal based BD. ;-) James On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: James: side issue...how do people feel about the fact that much biodiesel will be coming from animal fats, especially in warm climates? Will commercial biodiesel need to be sold as veg and non-veg origin, aside from this WVO/SVO source issue, (which is silly, there is no CO sequestering advantage to new oil versus oil that spent a week in a fryer). Ed On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 10:43 AM, James Slayden wrote: Hola, In talking with someone recently who is interested in purchasing some biodiesel, and interesting comment came up in our email exchange. He indicated that he was more interested in biodiesel made from crude VO than that made of WVO. I was trying to convince him that the WVO option was better due to the recyclable nature of the WVO, but he insisted that the CO sequestering was better of the more recent growing cycle. I had a difficult time convincing him that it was the same but oh well. He didn't even care about the GMO feedstock issue!! I guess what this leaves me with is a customer perception problem of crude VO vs. WVO based biodiesel. I am wondering why that perception issue exists and how to overcome it in talking w/ people who are not biodiesel geeks. I know that most of the folks at the Berkley BD Co-op are religiously pro-WVO BD and will absolutely not put GMO-VO biodiesel in their vehicles. So there is the dichotomy in interest of the different feedstocks for biodiesel. Any thoughts? James Slayden Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [evworld] Picture, price of gas above $2.00 for 87 Octane at a Shell station in San Diego
Just saw Diesel #2 for $2.10 last night!! Things are right sizing . On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, murdoch wrote: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/evworld/files/price%20of%20gas%20San%20Dieg %20February%2018%2C%202003.JPG This station is a mile or less from the ocean and is somewhat toward the high side, though it is far from the highest around. Interestingly, the 76 station down the street has decoupled its pricing a little bit, which I've seen happen generally only in times of volatility. Don't know if members of other groups can read an evworld group file. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] On the road to cleaner air
because someones pocket was being lined with greenbacks . ;-) Anyone in Boston doing BD that can sell to the school system out there? On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Grist's comment: Boston is moving to protect its students [from diesel fumes] by retrofitting school buses with new filtration systems that can eliminate 90 percent of diesel emissions. The Boston project is the largest in a New England-wide effort to clean up school buses; it is being paid for out of a $1.4 million fund created by the U.S. EPA with money won in a lawsuit against a Massachusetts waste-handling company. According to EPA estimates, the upgrades will eliminate at least 540 pounds of diesel particulate matter, 2,480 pounds of smog-causing hydrocarbons, and 17,380 pounds of carbon monoxide from the air every year. Those numbers are rather minor, aren't they? For that much money? Why not just use biodiesel instead? Keith http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/047/west/On_the_road_to_cleaner_air+.shtml Boston Globe Online / West Weekly / On the road to cleaner air MILFORD On the road to cleaner air School vehicles retrofitted to reduce diesel emissions By Franco Ordonez, Globe Staff Correspondent, 2/16/2003 ne by one, Boston public school buses are making their way out to Milford, taken off their smog-producing routes and sent west for a few days of detox, of sorts. They are driven to a secluded part of town, almost hidden behind towering granite walls along Quarry Drive, and into a massive, hangar-sized garage. Raising the buses on lifts, mechanics dressed in blue jumpsuits attach computers and sensors to the engines, then discard the mufflers, replacing them with new retro-filtration systems that eliminate up to 90 percent of diesel emissions. It is perhaps an unlikely venue to kick off an effort that environmental officials hope eventually ends the prospect of students' choking on diesel fumes on their way to school. The work, being done under the aegis of the Environmental Protection Agency, is in response to a February 2002 study conducted by Yale University and a Connecticut nonprofit, Environment and Human Heath Inc., that looked at children's exposure to diesel exhaust from school buses. The EPA has launched a national push for the use of pollution control devices and ultra low-sulfur diesel fuel on trucks and buses. The EPA is dedicating $1.4 million to the effort, a sum won in an April settlement with Waste Management of Massachusetts. The EPA contended that the waste-hauling company mishandled the disposal of some home appliances, which released chlorofluorocarbons into the atmosphere. The money is funding the largest retrofitting project of school buses in New England. Five months into the project, EPA officials recently celebrated the pilot program's continuing success at Southworth-Milton Inc. in Milford, a Caterpillar engine distributor, where 100 Boston school buses from the school district's biggest bus yard are being outfitted with the special diesel particulate filters. All 200 buses at the district's Readville yard are currently running on ultra-low sulfur fuel. According to EPA officials, the combination of retrofitting the buses and using ultra low-sulfur fuel will eliminate at least 540 pounds of diesel particulate matter, 2,480 pounds of smog-causing hydrocarbons, and 17,380 tons of carbon monoxide air pollution in Boston each year. This, environmental officials say, will make school bus rides much safer for children. ''This allows us to do even better,'' said Richard Jacobs, director of transportation for the Boston School Department, who noted that the city has already made strides to lower school bus emissions. The work, the first of its kind in the state, is being targeted to some of the most polluted areas of Boston, including Roxbury, Dorchester, and Mattapan, where, according to the EPA, asthma rates are as much as 178 percent higher than the state average and are the leading cause of childhood emergency hospitalizations. Last September, students of William B. Rogers Middle School in Hyde Park began riding the first retrofitted school bus, which traps diesel exhaust and turns it into carbon dioxide and water. Since then, 17 revamped buses have hit Boston streets. Nationally, 600,000 school buses carry 24 million children to school daily, according to Environment and Human Health Inc. Children annually spend 3 billion hours on school buses, considered the safest way for children to get to school. But the vast majority of those buses run on diesel fuel, which, according to the EPA, emits human carcinogens that can aggravate asthma, and even cause lung cancer and premature death. Diesel exhaust contains more than 40 air pollutants, including fine particles of carbon and a mixture of toxic gases, according to Environment and Human Health. ''It's so small that
Re: [biofuels-biz] Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel
That's just gross. :( sustainable my arse. On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Steve Spence wrote: Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel By REUTERS HICAGO, Feb. 21 (Reuters) - Smithfield Foods Inc., the pork producer, said today that it would build a $20 million site in Utah that would use waste from 500,000 hogs to make biodiesel, a renewable fuel for vehicles. Biodiesel can be made from any fat including vegetable oil and used cooking oil. About 15 million gallons were used in the United States last year. Smithfield said it would be the major partner in BEST BioFuel, a partnership that will build the plant at Smithfield-owned swine production sites near Milford, Utah. Livestock waste can be a source of clean, renewable vehicle fuel, said Robert F. Urell, a Smithfield senior vice president. Construction is scheduled to start in April on the new site, pending final approval of a conditional use permit and a permit from the Utah Department of Environmental Quality. Smithfield's Utah swine operation produces about one million market hogs a year, and the biodiesel project will use the waste from about half of those hogs, the company said. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel
Len, is this something that you worked on? On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Len Walde wrote: FYI, from Len Sigma Energy Engineering, Inc. Renewable Energy, Process Engineering Serving Agriculture, Industry Commerce through Symbiotic Recycling tm E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here is a little more info. on the Smithfield story extracted from Waste News, some of the how-to: Va. pork producer to develop $20 million swine waste-biodiesel system SMITHFIELD, VA. (Feb. 21) -- Smithfield Foods Inc. plans to spend $20 million developing a system to convert swine waste into biodiesel fuel. Smithfield Foods, a processor of fresh pork and other meats, will be the major partner in Best Biofuel LLC, a partnership that plans to construct the project at Smithfield Foods´ Circle Four Farms in southwestern Utah. The partnership will begin construction in April, and the facility could be producing fuels by October, according to Smithfield Foods. A collection system will pump waste to a central processing facility where it will be concentrated. The concentrated liquid then will go into a second system that produces biogas, which is piped to an enclosed plant where thermocatalytic processes convert it into biomethanol. The biomethanol will be shipped outside of Utah for processing into biodiesel, using soybean oil, used cooking oil, animal fat, or other oils. The biodiesel is a clean-burning, renewable fuel that can also extend the life of diesel engines because of improved lubricating action, according to the company. - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Biodiesel - Egroups [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Biofuel - Egroups biofuel@egroups.com; Alternate Power - Egroups [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 3rdworldenergy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; BFIC [EMAIL PROTECTED]; biofuels-biz biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com; bio-oil [EMAIL PROTECTED]; BiomassGroup [EMAIL PROTECTED]; EcoPages_Newswire [EMAIL PROTECTED]; future9 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; homeenergysolutions [EMAIL PROTECTED]; sustainablenrg [EMAIL PROTECTED]; vegoil-diesel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; wastewatts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 7:33 AM Subject: [biofuels-biz] Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel By REUTERS HICAGO, Feb. 21 (Reuters) - Smithfield Foods Inc., the pork producer, said today that it would build a $20 million site in Utah that would use waste from 500,000 hogs to make biodiesel, a renewable fuel for vehicles. Biodiesel can be made from any fat including vegetable oil and used cooking oil. About 15 million gallons were used in the United States last year. Smithfield said it would be the major partner in BEST BioFuel, a partnership that will build the plant at Smithfield-owned swine production sites near Milford, Utah. Livestock waste can be a source of clean, renewable vehicle fuel, said Robert F. Urell, a Smithfield senior vice president. Construction is scheduled to start in April on the new site, pending final approval of a conditional use permit and a permit from the Utah Department of Environmental Quality. Smithfield's Utah swine operation produces about one million market hogs a year, and the biodiesel project will use the waste from about half of those hogs, the company said. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel
actually the conversion of aniaml fats following slaughter does disgust me. Probably because I am a veggie. =) On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Steve Spence wrote: why is converting manure to methane gas gross? We used to do it my farming days. It's healthier than spreading the liquid stuff on the fields. You spread the dry stuff leftover and plow it under for fertilizer. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel That's just gross. :( sustainable my arse. On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Steve Spence wrote: Smithfield to Convert Hog Waste Into Fuel By REUTERS HICAGO, Feb. 21 (Reuters) - Smithfield Foods Inc., the pork producer, said today that it would build a $20 million site in Utah that would use waste from 500,000 hogs to make biodiesel, a renewable fuel for vehicles. Biodiesel can be made from any fat including vegetable oil and used cooking oil. About 15 million gallons were used in the United States last year. Smithfield said it would be the major partner in BEST BioFuel, a partnership that will build the plant at Smithfield-owned swine production sites near Milford, Utah. Livestock waste can be a source of clean, renewable vehicle fuel, said Robert F. Urell, a Smithfield senior vice president. Construction is scheduled to start in April on the new site, pending final approval of a conditional use permit and a permit from the Utah Department of Environmental Quality. Smithfield's Utah swine operation produces about one million market hogs a year, and the biodiesel project will use the waste from about half of those hogs, the company said. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Stainless steel drums
anyone know of refurb or salvage 85 or 110 drums. 55's are as common as dirt, but the larger sizes are somewhat more difficult to find. SF bay only please. skolnik is in Chicago I believe. Thnx, James Slayden On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Forwards from the Distillers list: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: waljaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:13:34 - Subject: [Distillers] SS drums in the U.S. Came across a site specializing in steel drums (including salvage drums and barrels) which would be suitable for distillers - http://www.skolnik.com Wal To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Robert Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:49:29 +1300 Subject: [Distillers] Stainless Drums For those residing in Oz, The Visypack plant in Brisbane produces a food-grade 60 litre stainless steel drum. The version that I was interested in was described as having a full open lid, retained with a clamp and nitrile (alcohol impervious) gasket. While I haven't seen one in the flesh, it sounds ideal for a boiler. At the time I made enquiries (Dec '02), Visypack's address was: Oxford St, Bulimda, but they were soon to shift to: 40 Ingham Place, Hammett. The contact person is a Jim Klaer (pronounced clear), Phone no. in Brisbane: 3890 9777. Price: Aus$154.66. For those (like me) residing in NZ, my original enquiries were through Visypack NZ, but with freight etc. the price became prohibitive. At this stage, I'm waiting for someone flying to Brisbane to bring me one back as unaccompanied baggage! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] finally, a James Woolsey interview.... covers more than one proposed alt-fuel-bio-fuel solution
WOW! There is a market for FFA's .. http://www.changingworldtech.com/techfr.htm I would have never guessed. Now how to sell it in bulk following glyc seperation. James Slayden On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, murdoch wrote: http://www.evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=507 I wonder what fuel they were talking about here: In addition to ethanol production, he also sees promise in a new technology called Thermo-Depolymerization. In partnership with Conagra Foods, a large food processor in the United States, a small company called Changing World Technologies, has installed a system that will take agriculture waste from a turkey processing plant in Carthage, Missouri and convert it into a short-chain hydrocarbon gas similar to natural gas and a high-grade bio-diesel fuel, among other bi-products. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [berkeleybiodiesel] [biofuel] crosspost schoolbus conversions (fwd)
Just crossposting. James Slayden -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:28:31 -0800 (PST) From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [berkeleybiodiesel] [biofuel] crosspost schoolbus conversions (fwd) So, here is what I found out. The Certificate to haul waste grease (oil) is $100 per year for the 1st vehicle, and $75 for every vehicle there after. The certificate is annually renewable in January and you get both a certificate paper and a sticker for the vehicle. No hazzardous materials training is necessary. So, basically it's only if ya get caught oil diving where this would really be an issue. I'm sure that no one is going to stop ya and see what's in the 5 gal pails (or other container). It's more of a comfortability issue with those people who get nervous with legal issues. But, it might be good to get it to be on the safe side. James Slayden Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Power plant uses coal, grass
There was a pilot project several years back that was in a midwestern state with good emission reductions. There also is a company that makes switchgrsss pellets for pellet stoves, just can't find it now. James Slayden On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, murdoch wrote: http://www.augustachronicle.com/stories/070603/met_energy3.shtml Interesting comments about switchgrass, project results. Also, the comments of the International Paper person were interesting to me. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sOykFB/k9VGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuels-biz] Biodiesel Production Units
Here is another one: http://www.superiorprocesstech.com/ It really depends on what your looking for. Small, mid, or large production. As what's been said before, a small production unit can be cheaply made, by you. Most of the mid solutions that are out seem to be skid or container types up to ~500K. And the large production facilities are using industrial plant builders at a very high cost. Todd will be putting out a whitepaper on a small 2 stage acid/base plant sometime in the near future on JTF. I believe that smallish (ie. under 1000gpd) highly distributed plants are the way to go. Something akin to a city or area plant depending on feedstock availability. The scaling of BD production to a certain point really does simplify things, all the way from feedstock sourcing, production, to co-products reclaimation, and wastewater recycling. But as a point to show here, I make single stage batchs in 5 gal buckets 20 gal's at a time (looking to build a 55 gal drum processor soon). From that experience I would say that if your going to do over 10 gal's at a time, it's best to go with a larger processor, wash tank, etc system. I kinda came up with a formula for doubling and moving up to a larger processor and various gallon intervals. Kinda like 10 gal = 5 gal bucket processing, 20-40 gal = 35 - 55 gal drum processing, 100 gal, 200 gal, 400 gal, 1000 gal, 2000 gal, etc .. You get the picture. James Slayden On Thu, 17 Jul 2003, Winny De Schryver wrote: Look at www.energea.at and www.biodieseltechnologies.com also superior technologies in the US is selling plants Winny -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: cheneyvii [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: donderdag 17 juli 2003 9:18 Aan: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: [biofuels-biz] Biodiesel Production Units I would like information on Biodiesel production units. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705lp=home/epson.asp http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Brine wash to dry WVO?
I think this is done on a commercial scale to decrease FFA's crude VO. Anyone have some insite into that? James Slayden On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Sounds like an interesting idea, anybody tried it, or heard of it being done? Tim wrote to me direct, he's not a list member, though I suggested he join, so you might cc any responses to him. Best Keith From: Tim Desson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: biodiesel Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:07:43 + Dear Keith, just been reading about the fantastic biodiesel stuff on the web! I'm going to give the foolproof process a go (when my broken collar bone mends!) I was wondering if a brine wash has been tried to dry the WVO before transesterification (I'm a research chemist, and this is often done on wet solutions of organic solvents to dry them, the water in the fat gets salted out ) I look forward to hearing from you Tim Desson Wokingham, UK Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Need A Name Contest
GreaseWerks B100 :) James On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I have referred to in the past, Homestead Inc. and CoopPlus of Western Massachusetts are joining forces to create a new small commercial sized biodiesel processor in Western Massachusetts. Anticipated construction date is by or before January of 2005. One thing that's a little stuck right now is a PRODUCT NAME. I'm the only one who likes my previous product name, Yellow brand PREMIUM Biodiesel, so we have to look elsewhere. Here's an offer: if anyone can help us find a new product name for our biodiesel, made from 100% recycled vegetable oil, collected from the local generators and sold to the local users as 100% roadworthy biodiesel, there is a reward for you! The person who suggests the best name for our biodiesel, in our opinion, for our new main product of B-100, will receive ten (10) certificates, each good for five gallons of B-100 biodiesel! This will require the name be registrable for our company.These certificates normally are sold for $10.00 each, and will be worth even more in the near future. Biodiesel is f.o.b. the factory, and the certificates are redeemable after the factory opens for normal production, expected by early 2006. Send to the list here, or send to me directly, its your choice. I'll publish the name when it is chosen in the next 30 to 45 days, and name the lucky winner of all of that biodiesel! Note that if the corporate venture does its own name inventing, there will be no web based winner. But give it a few minutes thought, the winner could be you! Tom Leue - Homestead Inc. www.yellowbiodiesel.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=423018715] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: take down my articles from journeytoforever.org was Re: [biofuel] Re: Love Those
blah, blah, blah, blah Can you two take this offline? Just going over this on the list in my book is spam. BTW, I utmost respect for both of you. Just this kind of list infighting should be between poster and moderator, not for the general public. Thanks, James On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Keith Addison wrote: I'm reversing the order of messages here, so that it is obvious to everyone what Im talking about in my reply. so the latest is at the bottom... Mark Something else that's generally accepted as good Netiquette and is required on many lists is in-line responses. Eg, There's no way to build a threaded discussion with top-posting. Top-posting severely inhibits others from understanding the conversation, because the context of the conversation is out of order, as in broken. Same thing with bottom posting. But I see your point - if you'd written this as an inline response it would have looked nonsensical. Which it is. All too predictable, and indeed predicted, sad to say, though I did hope for better. But I didn't hold my breath either. Same as last time, eh? - with that disgraceful episode at the Biodiesel list a few months ago. You didn't want a flame war, while pouring gasoline on it. I told you this, a couple of times, among several other things: Let me try it again, probably no use but still: If you want a fight, you can count me out, I'm not interested. If you'd prefer peace, great, so would I. But that means even-handedness. You weren't interested. You twisted a LOT of things right out of shape, distorted a lot of things, and said a lot of things that were blatantly untrue. Confronted with incontrovertible evidence that it was untrue, you ignored it and pressed ahead anyway. Now you've posted this stuff at the Biodiesel list, and to the Wastewatts group, and heaven knows where else. Why would that be I wonder? Trying to cause max damage? Or to drum up support on dysfunctional lists where all the trolls can have a field day? As they now are. LOL! Are you to be judged by the support you're getting? You know damn' well Dana Linscott's telling a pack of malicious lies about the Biofuel list and Journey to Forever, twice now, are you going to counter him? So is Jerry Dycus. Want me to prove it? Anyway, sorry, NOT the same as last time. There are standards here and they're upheld. See below. ** --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, bioveging [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All this came about by following your recommendations and hints, G Mark. (snip) I then wrote: Hey, thank you very much for the kind words, but it's not just me who designed that system by any stretch. Lots and lots of people's ideas have been creeping into the water heater processor design and helping it evolve, and that's why you should also add to it by posting your own photos in the veggieavenger.com open-source biodiesel equipment forum, to add to the general knowledge (or even post descriptions if you dont have a camera). Thanks for the positive feedback anyway, even though it should go out to everybody who contributed! I really hope the other people who have contributed realise how much their contributions have helped newcomers. mark ** then Keith Addison wrote: At 10:27 PM 8/23/2004 +, you wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark You're not a newcomer to Internet forums, and I'm sure you know that it's very bad Netiquette to post messages to one forum promoting another. That's generally accepted as a no-no and the online resources on Netiquette are quite clear about it. There are quite a few lists where doing that will get you instantly banned. At the very least you should ask first. You've now done this here repeatedly. Of course it's okay to point to a particular item at another forum if it's of relevance to a discussion, but this is outright promotion, which is not okay at all. Not only that, you've more or less demanded that I put the thing on Journey to Forever. You'd already asked me that three times offlist and didn't get a response. Quite obviously that WAS the response - you think I didn't notice or something? Three times? I'm not exactly famous for not noticing such things. So you bring it onlist? Keith, please add to my Appleseed article that you have posted on journeytoforever, the link to the original material that it's derived from: www.veggieavenger.com/media or at least a link to the Appleseed thread on veggieavenger.com/media . I'm planning on cleaning up that thread pretty soon here so it'll be more legible. Anyway, it didn't come from veggieavenger.com, it came from a piece you wrote for Homepower, or so you said at the time. And also from your 'zine. Whatever, I've my own good reasons for not doing so and I'm not about to defend them to you, nor to
Re: [biofuel] Green-trust.org is back online!
Congrats Steve!! On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Steve Spence wrote: After much angst and wrangling, Green-trust.org (http://www.green- trust.org) is back online, with a new interface, new features (Blog, encyclopedia, discussion boards, link exchange, and much more), and a new Host (ISP)! All the old content is archived, and major sections of it is being re-written, and will be posted back online. If you have requests for particular articles, suggestions, or want to help with editing (or article writing), please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve Spence Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=145313763] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Drano is drano all right.
Red Devil is available at most any Safeway, Home Depot, or Osh On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Michael Lendzian wrote: I get Red devil Lye down the street from my house at Kroger's. Yes- that's right- the supermarket! -Michael Michael Patrick Lendzian Information Technology Manager Skidaway Institute of Oceanography Savannah, GA 31411 912.598.2330 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change
Hrmm, I don't seem to get around to it until ~8,000 miles or so. Seems fine so far and I have 90K on my engine. James Slayden On Sun, 18 Apr 2004, Keith Addison wrote: Any opinions on this? Best Keith From: The Motor Oil Bible [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The Motor Oil Bible Update April 16, 2004 Hello, This message is going out to everyone who ever purchased The Motor Oil Bible or downloaded the free version (with the exception of anyone whoever requested to be removed from my mailing list - I respect everyone's right to opt-out). The Motor Oil Bible is now well over 150 pages and is now completely F,R,E,E (at least the electronic version is). There is no longer a free trial version and a full version. The FULL version is now provided for download at no charge. I feel very strongly that everyone out there needs to read this book as there is much environmental pollution and economic waste occuring as a result of the major oil companies' insistence on perpetuating The Myth of the 3,000 Mile Oil Change. So, I am no longer charging for the electonic version of my book. To those of you who paid for the electronic version in the past, I hope you don't feel like you got the short end of the stick. Previous to now, I was not in a financial position to offer the book without charge. Now I am, so that's what I'm doing. The reason that I am emailing you is because many of you have indicated to me in the past that you knew people you thought should read this information. However, many of them might not have been willing to PAY for the information. Now that the book is downloadable without charge, you may have friends or relatives who would be interested in reading the book. The only semi requirement I have is that people wanting to make sure they are downloading the latest edition of the book will want to register for an account on TheMotorOilSite.com discussion board. I do not charge for these memberships either. Technically, to get the book, they don't HAVE to register since anyone is welcome to send the book to a friend as an email attachment or put it up on their website server for download. The only potential issue is that the file may become outdated over time. If they register for an account on TheMotorOilSite.com they can be sure that the file they download is the latest copy available. At any rate, the latest iteration of the book had some revision as of September of 2002 and had technical specification updates as of August of 2003. Hopefully, there will be some more updates coming very soon and all registered members of TheMotorOilSite.com will receive notification when that update occurs. To download the latest version, please go to http://TheMotorOilSite.com and register for an account. Then, please notify anyone you feel might have interest in this material that the book is now available at no cost. People need to know that they are basically being lied to and it is costing them a great deal of time, money and aggrevation. Thank you, Mike Kaufman Motor Oil Bible Author http://Motor-Oil-Bible.com http://TheMotorOilSite.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: stanadyne pump compatability
Hey Keith, Is there any possible way to have solution suggestions for the injectors, like you have for the causes? It would be a nice checklist. :) James On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Keith Addison wrote: Those pumps die anyway. Biodiesel isn't a problem with them. The Diesel Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch) still make cautious noises about biodiesel but they're supportive nonetheless. They insist on standard-spec fuel at minimum, but it's easy to make standard-spec biodiesel or better. Here's their statement on biodiesel quality: Summary -- html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html Full document -- Acrobat file, 104kb http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/FIEM.pdf For SVO/WVO the same reservations apply to Stanadyne pumps as to Lucas-CAV - rotary pumps, not good. Elsbett says: We do not suggest to modify engines equipped with distributor-type injection pumps manufactured by Delphi, Lucas, CAV, Stanadyne and Roto-Diesel. There's more about this at Darren Hill's site: http://www.vegburner.co.uk/suitability.htm Vegburner Meanwhile there've been furious denials from Greasel and probably others - nothing wrong with rotary pumps and SVO, they say, it's just rumors, misinformation. Ho-hum. Ed Beggs of Neoteric reported an initial failure (old pump) and no problems with the rebuilt replacement: Starting into a project with an old highly worn pump - well, sure, anything can happen... these pumps fail daily to begin with, on diesel fuel... Throw in some inferior WVO that should have been made into biodiesel, and you are adding to the potential for problems, IMO. On the other hand, with a good pump in good shape, and good WVO or SVO, well heated and free of water and contaminants.. no problems. Others agree with that, though it's also said that the Stanadyne pumps can't take too much heat either, maybe 180 deg F max. Not too little, not too much. It's the same with the Lucas - it can be done but it has to be done well, and there's still a shortage of long-term results, there are some, but not enough. Once again, it's the difference between biodiesel and SVO. Biodiesel - any diesel will do. SVO - maybe any diesel, but there's a lot more to consider, if you're just going to chuck it in and go then be prepared for problems. Best Keith to elaborate on that a little (since I own one of these vehicles) Elsbett has recommended not converting vehicles equipped with Stanodyne pumps to SVO. (this came from Aleksander Noack directly, not sure if it's on their website or not) we had a LOT of failures (ie 7 or 8 now?) with these pumps (on Fords and Chevy trucks) in the Bay Area on SVO, none on biodiesel. Of course lots of other people have also run them successfully on SVO, again, no pump failures reported anywhere on biodiesel. It looks like the failures in our area were mostly on vehicles which weren't getting sufficient heating on the WVO side. These folks mostly ran homemade or experimental conversions, and the failures (sized pump) occured quite early in the conversion's life. The several of these cases that I looked into, didn't do adequate temperature monitoring , so it is possible that the temps weren't up to par. In any case it seems a strong case to be extra careful with SVO in these vehicles. One of them seized his pump and then seized the newly rebuilt replacement almost immediately. When he called the rebuild company about it the second time, they asked if he was using biodiesel- they'd apparently gotten a few back from various people already. I imagine that the SVO'ers who were trying to get the company to accept their seized pumps as cores were probably doing what my friends did- and probably weren't quite straight with the co. as to what fuel they were using, and had probably told that company it was biodiesel (since that sounds less bad than hacking into your fuel system, from a fuel injection equipment manufacturers' perspective. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not recommended for SVO/WVO use, fine with biodiesel. Best Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Best I can tell the pump in my vehicle is a distributor type Stanadyne pump. If I am wrong on that point, someone please correct me! From what I remember, the fuel injector pump on the 5.7, 6.2 and 6.5 is a Roosa Master. I don't know why distributor type fuel injection pumps would have problems on biodiesel, though I imagine the close tolerances of such a device might cause problems with WVO after it had cooled down. But that would simply entail running biodiesel or standard diesel through the pump for a few moments to clean out the hot WVO before shutting down, would it not? Once, when I was seriously looking at a 6.5 turbo diesel, I contacted Ed Beggs about a
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
and on that note, does anyone know where I can get a vent fiting for non-vented carboys? James On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Brian wrote: Mark, A while back, you had mentioned being able to find plumbing fittings to use a carboy for adding methoxide. To this point, I have been unable to find anyplace that sells carboy caps which connect to plumbing fittings. Do you have any further information on where these can be found? Thanks for all you do here. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer. I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre) drum. I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My construction helper (he who welds) and I got talking about the addition of the Methanol , Acid, Methoxide. He got me thinking about some sort of inline 'adder' so I could drip my chosen substance in to the pump mixing lines. This would help me get a good mix. Has anyone else got experience with this type of design. Not knowing too much about pumps etc what sort of device could I look for/make for adding the substance 'mid flow'. Many thanks. Angus -- __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maroochypermaculture.org.au Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=860508098] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
HDPE plastic On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, linden duncan wrote: James, Is your carboy made of glass, plastic or metal? Linden James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and on that note, does anyone know where I can get a vent fiting for non-vented carboys? James On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Brian wrote: Mark, A while back, you had mentioned being able to find plumbing fittings to use a carboy for adding methoxide. To this point, I have been unable to find anyplace that sells carboy caps which connect to plumbing fittings. Do you have any further information on where these can be found? Thanks for all you do here. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at the processor plans at: http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html . The APpleseed reactor and many others have the type of pump-mixed system you're describing. The way methoxide is added, is that a second tank (a 5-gallon jerrican in my case) is used, which the methoxide is mixed up in. Then it's plumbed inline with the intake of the pump. When y0u add methoxide, you just open a valve, and hopefully the pump will draw in the methoxide into the oil stream. The other devices for this sort of thing include venturis (which would make this work a little better than the current APpleseed arrangement does) and various agricultural sprayer equipment 'injectors' for adding pesticides to a stream of liquid. I don't have direct experience with these. Venturis and other inline chemcal injection devices are found at the Northern Tool, tractor Supply Company, various local agricultural/ranch/farm supply places, www. surpluscenter.com, and McMaster-Carr (McMaster.com I think). Let us know what you find and how it works for you. Mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Angus Scown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just started construction of my processer. I have started pretty simply by building a cone bottomed 44 gallon (200 litre) drum. I was thinking of using a pump to do the mixing as it seems very simple to design/install and with clear pipes in sections to monitor the colour. My construction helper (he who welds) and I got talking about the addition of the Methanol , Acid, Methoxide. He got me thinking about some sort of inline 'adder' so I could drip my chosen substance in to the pump mixing lines. This would help me get a good mix. Has anyone else got experience with this type of design. Not knowing too much about pumps etc what sort of device could I look for/make for adding the substance 'mid flow'. Many thanks. Angus -- __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maroochypermaculture.org.au Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=860508098] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=763018538] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re[2]: [biofuel] Re: Two Stage process -- design to add methoxide
sounds interesting, I will ask Ken where he gets this brewing supplies. Thanks. James On Tue, 15 Jun 2004, Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo James, Try someplace which sells homebrewing supplies. Rubber bung with a hole in the middle to which you can attach a small plastic device which will allow gasses to escape. ?? Happy Happy, Gustl Tuesday, 15 June, 2004, 01:26:36, you wrote: JS and on that note, does anyone know where I can get a vent fiting for JS non-vented carboys? JS James -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Anybody there?
I am gett'in the list email . James On Tue, 22 Jun 2004, Ken Provost wrote: I'm just waitin for 300 messages to show up -- but they haven't yet. I actually had a virus attack over the weekend -- watched my emails disappear upwards before my very eyes, just like a spy film (y'know, Clear Present Danger, where one guys tryin to delete faster than the other guy can save off -- SPOOKY, and that's on a MAC!) Anyway, are we back to normal yet? Will we ever be normal AGAIN?:-) -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=637714214] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Rice husk ash
Are the rice hulls the same as the germ ? James On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema wrote: it'll be sent to a mill. Products are rice and bran, husks are waste. Should be FFTA. Unless they've found some by-product use for them there. Some straw-bale builders are using (unburnt!) rice husks for ceiling/attic insulation. It blows in like cellulose, and the high silica content makes it fairly fire-retardant. I've heard somebody mixed hulls into their 'mud' (earthen plaster) to seal the strawbale walls.For those who are interested, raw wool is another great insulator for ceilings/attics,but it doesn't blow in. US rice mills will generally want to give you large quantities (a dump truck full) but don't like to mess with smaller quantities when it comes to hulls. ...and that's more eco-trivia to fill your noggin... HeidiWD To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but also treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt, 1918 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=121297097] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Rice husk ash
Thanks Keith, I was soft bounced and missed some postings. James On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Keith Addison wrote: Are the rice hulls the same as the germ ? No. From previous: Uhh, maybe I don't know what rice husks are -- I've always assumed they're some part of the plant that encases the rice grain, That's what they are. Aka rice hulls. and that I never see in my rice straw. No, you wouldn't. I doubt the rice is dehusked at the farm-level, it'll be sent to a mill. Products are rice and bran, husks are waste. Should be FFTA. Unless they've found some by-product use for them there. The germ is part of the seed, not part of its casing. Usually it is removed in polishing the rice seed (white rice, as opposed to brown rice, which still has the germ), in which case it's found in the bran. It is the germ that gives the bran its high oil content. Which we've discussed here before with you. James On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema wrote: it'll be sent to a mill. Products are rice and bran, husks are waste. Should be FFTA. Unless they've found some by-product use for them there. Some straw-bale builders are using (unburnt!) rice husks for ceiling/attic insulation. It blows in like cellulose, and the high silica content makes it fairly fire-retardant. I've heard somebody mixed hulls into their 'mud' (earthen plaster) to seal the strawbale walls.For those who are interested, raw wool is another great insulator for ceilings/attics,but it doesn't blow in. US rice mills will generally want to give you large quantities (a dump truck full) but don't like to mess with smaller quantities when it comes to hulls. If you're going to use it for building, a dump-truck might not be too much. Ashing it brings it down to about a quarter the volume. If you're more interested in smaller stuff than houses, like stoves, the mills will probably let you take whatever you want if you go there. ...and that's more eco-trivia to fill your noggin... Thankyou Heidi. regards Keith HeidiWD To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but also treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt, 1918 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=941045787] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Lumpy BD
Keith, just a question. How are you doing the stir washing? Using the pump, or actually using a stirring mechanism? I saw the thread on what Todd was saying about pump washing and was interesed on if and how people are doing that. Thanks, James On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Keith Addison wrote: snip I find that can get a bit gruelling, though it's a useful option to have. In moving house etc recently we didn't make any biod for a few weeks, and ended up with much more WVO than we like to have on hand, so I've been processing it steadily, one batch after another. But instead of having a batch in the settling tank and doing a second batch straight away to settle in the processor, I just have one batch in the settling tank. As soon as one of the two washing tanks is free, I transfer the (now settled) biod from the settling tank to that wash-tank, then process a new batch and settle it in the now-empty settling tank. This new batch will end up in the other wash-tank. This does a batch every two or three days, which is fast enough, and it's a lot more relaxed than handling two batches at once. This makes more use of the two wash-tanks than of the settling tank (it could just settle in the processor), but it staggers it nicely, so you're only dealing with one batch at a time rather than two. This is still with bubblewashing, by the way. We've used stir-washing quite a lot, but the two wash-tanks aren't properly set up for stirring yet. Next job. Or forthcoming job anyway. snip Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Lumpy BD
Thanks, Just seeing how people are stir washing. James On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, Keith Addison wrote: Keith, just a question. How are you doing the stir washing? With a stirrer. Using the pump, or actually using a stirring mechanism? I saw the thread on what Todd was saying about pump washing and was interesed on if and how people are doing that. We don't have a spare pump, and would rather keep any water out of the processor mixing pump, which probably does enough already without adding washing to its burden. Best Keith Thanks, James On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Keith Addison wrote: snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=551058911] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bergen county NJ?
That reminds me, most of the WVO that I get in my area (sushi, chinese resturants), titrate to 2 - 2 1/2. Not too far off virgin oil that titrates to ~1. James On Tue, 17 Aug 2004, Keith Addison wrote: Hi, any straight veggie oil burners in Bergen County, NJ? I had been told Costco would have five gallon containers of canola oil for $10:00, and that would bring the cost down to $2:00 a gallon. I was kicking around the thought of converting an old '86 Mercedes 300SDL. for nearly a year, but one day I realized I never bothered to even confirm availability of veggie oil in my area. So I called Costco in Hackensack. The largest container of canola they had was one and a half gallons, at; EEK! $5:00! So, any suggestions? I would like to go green, not cheap, and have no place to process waste oil regardless. Straight veggie oil is burns cleaner, to my understanding. Cleaner than biodiesel? Very dubious assumption. Or do you mean virgin oil burns cleaner than waste oil? Maybe, depends on the oil. Mark recently posted a message on the pros and cons of SVO and biodiesel, including emissions: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37564/ And there's some emissions data and plenty of other information here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel If you're committed to using straight vegetable oil, your best bet is to find a source of good-quality used oil, which is just a matter of looking, and asking. Best wishes Keith I don't mind matching the cost of pump diesel, but I sure don't want to spend $3:33 a gallon! Anyone in this area burning straight veggie oil? Anyone here running an '77-'85 Mercedes w123 240D or 300D, or an '81-'91 w126 300SD, 300SDL., 350SD or 350SDL? Or even a 300SD prior to '81? Any comments? Thanks in advance! Gregory. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here [rand=227435215] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] 1st day of biofuel class w/ Girl Mark
Hola Biofuelers, Today was the first day of a four part Biodiesel class at the Ecology center in Berkley. There was about twenty four people atending with Girl Mark teaching, and her trustworthy assistant 'Methman' (ie. Jeff) in tow. Below is a blow by blow of the first day. BTW, also got some pictures that if Keith would like to post or have a page dedicated to the class, just let me know. Didn't get a chance to use my Girlfriends Digital so these will have to be processed in the coming weeks. Might just post them on OFOTO with a little narration. Regards, James Slayden 9:30am - lost my way in to the location and ended up almost in Concord, Ca. Had to turn around on the 980 freeway and rely on some reverse direction intuition. 9:45am - Arrived at the Ecology Center in Berkley and a small group for the class started forming. Interesting I thought it would be more packed, but I think that people are more interested in the finished product than actually creating Biodiesel. 10am- Girl Mark was running late so I spent some time looking at all the sustainable information available at the Ecology Center. If your ever in Berkley definitely stop by the center just for all the other goodies! 10:15ish - Girl Mark shows up!! We get to helping unload and distribute her BD 'zine' and gear. We introduce ourselves and explain why we are taking the class. Class size is around 24. The price per class was great!! $15 - $60 sliding scale, almost a like a free will donation. You pay either at each class or for the whole series, very Berkley. =) 10:**am - Girl Mark starts in on the lecture portion of with some history of diesel, biodiesel, and some other good factiods. She makes a batch of blender BD with 'Methman' doing the dirty work. Girl Mark drills into us the safety precautions that should be taken. This will not be the first time this will be said. ;-) 12:30pm - Lunch!! Not that your interested, but I had a tofu scramble at a little cafe down the steet with some fellow class members. I find out that what seems to be the concensus - that this the first time for most of us. 1:15pm - Girl Mark dives right into titration!! Guess she figured we need to get the difficult stuff out of the way first. We split up into 4 groups and started practicing titration. It looked so easy when Girl Mark did it!!?? I now know how important measuring is and how easily it can be screwed up. Most of the members of our group titrate and come up with a consistant 1.75ml. The groups compare the numbers and we head out to the parking lot to do a biger batch. ??:??pm - Time flys when your having fun. We were going to do a methoxide batch, then Jeff thought he had some KOH and wanted to try that, so the blender batch of methoxide was scrapped and was made into another blender BD batch. Then Jeff found out that he forgot the KOH and we went back the the original plan. Some of the class members volunteered to be 'Methman' for some of the methoxide mixing which was kewl. I was a little scared of the chemicals so I passed on the opportunity (my own personal deamon). I will go for it next time though!! Need to get over that . 3:15pmClass was suppose to be over, but since we started late, and lots of questions put us over the time. I stayed to see the larger batch being mixed in small scale processor. Half the class had left (pity), so it was a chance to get up and close with the processing. BTW, Girl Mark brought two batch style, mixer processors made out of very convient and inexpensive materials (metal drums) easily found/made. Not being that machanically inclined, it's not very intimidating to see how simple the processor can be made. We talked a little bit about the processors and will go further into it later in the class. It was a great first day and I think we all got a great start in feeling comfortable with the process, titration, and working with the chemicals. It was a big suprise to most of us that it really is a simple process and quite amazing that we can make our own fuel. More to follow in the coming weeks (and pics). Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] What's your 20
hrmm, being in the service at one time in comm, for us it was copy you 5-by. More in the light of can you here and understand me?. ;-) James On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, csakima wrote: Your 20 short for 10-20 (most have heard of Roger, 10-4) term used by one radio operator asking another where on the map are you??, since a radio mounted in an automobile could be anywhere. I thought it appropriate ... since with the 'net, it's not always obvious where every email is coming from. Curtis Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20? - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Project Help
hrmm, methinks that Melissa should contact Southern States Power Company who are making comerce BD out of the LA area. Don't know what process they are using or what feedstock, cause it's been a while since I talked to them (bad vibe when I called last). James On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Keith Addison wrote: Wow, you want quite a lot of help. Alright, I have a few questions about a project I'm doing. 1)Are there any politicians (Past and present) who have fervently supported biofuels, and is there any way I can contact them? The Governors of all the corn states all fervently support ethanol, for some strange reason. It was a hot potato in your legislature recently, I'm sure you can check it out. It's still a hot potato in your state, check out the state newspaper archives. For biodiesel, check out Minnesota. 2)Can biofuels be applied on a large scale? If so, why hasn't it happened already? What do you mean large scale? In 2001, the European Union produced and used 300 million gallons of biodiesel, rising very fast. The US produced and used 20 million gallons in 2001 (another figure says 35 million gallons), up from 5 million gallons in 2000, according to the National Biodiesel Board. By 2016, the US expects to produce 800 million gallons. The US Department of Energy has mentioned six billion gallons by the year 2020. That would be more than 15% of the diesel consumed in North America. But this doesn't make much sense to me, because it's according to growth based on current usage, and I don't think it's going to be that way. I'm not sure of the figures for ethanol, I'm sure you can find out easily enough. It's pretty much worldwide, for both fuels, with a different picture in each country, all changing rapidly. 3)Who were/are the key developers of biofuels, and who are the key advocates today? We are. :-) Unless you want to believe World Energy. 4) What are the main differences between ethanol and biodiesel? Ethanol is for spark-ignition (gasoline) motors, biodiesel is for diesel (compression-ignition) motors. Ethanol is an alcohol, biodiesel is an ester. Which is cleaner? Which is cheaper? What are the characteristics of each? What are their primary uses? Oh, come on! Do your own homework! Anyway you're trying to compare chalk and cheese. Go prowl around Journey to Forever and Webconx a bit, you'll find info and leads there. 5) Is there any chance that clean-engine diesel cars will ever be mass marketed in the U.S.? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html Do diesels have a future? 6) I live in Claremont, CA (L.A. area), and I want to contact to local fuel and trucking companies to conduct a survey of their fuel practices. Does anyone know how I can go about doing this? Do it. 7) Does anyone have an interesting anecdote about their use of biofuels that I can use in my paper? :-) Sorry, I think that's funny. (I'm a journalist.) 8) What sort of political barriers stand in the way of green fuel use? Much too general a question, I don't think I want to write a major essay for you, nor will anyone else. Hone down your questions a bit and use the archives, there's a very large amount of information on that there. Good luck. Keith Thanks for your input. Melissa Jahnke Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mid sized Diesel pickups?
I was just talking about this with a member of the Biodiesel class over the weekend and he was thinking of an Isuzu Pup, both for the pratical reasons of having a truck, and the milage benefit of having a small engine. Dunno, it depends on what features your looking for. James On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Martha Olson wrote: Well, my little ole Mazda pickup came to an untimely end last week (unfortunately with me in it) and I'm contemplating buying a diesel truck so I'd have the option of going with biofuel. I'd be looking for a 10 yr old ( + or - ) truck. What models are readily available in the US? What kind of MPG should I expect? Comments on reliability would be appreciated. Is there a point in the last 10 years when diesel engines got noticeably cleaner? I think I'd favor the dual tank system and expect I'd be burning petrol diesel at least part of the time. Thanks in advance for any help. Martha Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Large and Small, All on the Same Team-- Was Re: more info on the NBB and the soy subsidy
Sorry, I just had to responde to something you said about the DIY'rs
sullying the image of BD??!!
In this last weekends class we did a little homebrew test for quality
against commerce BD and a batch from the Berkley co-op and they were about
the same. If anything, the commerce BD that gets sent for ASTM and EPA
testing is prolly from a VERY carefully processed batch, whereas most
homebrew is carefully processed with each batch out of necessity (more
lovingly ;-) ). I wouldn't say all homebrewers are that concerned with
their batches, but to be a DIY'r is in itself a passion, and thus usually
more concerned.
James Slayden
On Mon, 18 Nov 2002, Andrew Hoppin wrote:
snip
help? Or could they be authentically concerned that a small producer
making
some mistake in production will sully the image of biodiesel? Other
possibilities? Regardless, if you can identify what the root of their
problem is, then whether that root cause seems silly or not, and
regardless
snip
Cheers,
Andrew
The Biofuel Business Development Project
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Biofuel-Business-Plan/
Dedicated to Making An Immediate Impact
On the Long-Range Future of Humanity
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 11:23:08 +0900
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: more info on the NBB and the soy subsidy
Hello Andrew
I'm would prefer to see a decentralized industry of small producers as
well,
but my bias is that if we're really going to make a near-term
difference in
our world in terms of energy security and environmental protection and
public health with biodiesel, we need to support any and all
companies that
are willing to produce and distribute biodiesel, small and large.
Cheers,
Andrew
Um, at the cost of having homebrewers dispensed with by means of a
load of BS about us being nothing but a peril who'll bring it all to
naught unless we're controlled? Or at least kept firmly in our place
(our own backyards)? Though we can be useful... Check back and you'll
see that that's basically what Mr Noyes of World Energy was saying.
He was asked how many times? Three? Four? - to substantiate his
claims that substandard-spec homebrew had caused widespread problems
and industry had had to clean up the mess after us. He evaded the
question each time. He can't substantiate it because it's BS. Not the
only thing he evaded. If you think that will at least stop him making
such unsubstantiated claims, even if he can't quite bring himself to
withdraw them, don't hold your breath.
Noyes, and others like him, couldn't cope with what we actually are
and what we do, as opposed to his patronising idea of us. Have a look
at how he handled the possibility of collaboration with us,
laughable. It's on his terms or nothing, just like the other World
Energy guy who wasted our time with this talk. We're more useful than
these people, and it's them who make it an either-or question, not us.
We're not against industry, that would be foolish, but there's
industry and then there's industry. It's not a case of small vs
large, there's room and need for both, as you say. Some of the big
companies are just fine, no problem at all working with them. But
frankly I think the world needs the likes of World Energy like it
needs a hole in the head.
{snip}
Biofuels at Journey to Forever
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuel at WebConX
http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
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Re: [biofuel] Back Online
Just went to the seminar with Ianto Evans promoting his book The Hand Sculpted House and it was excellent. He showed pics of what a stick frame built house looks like after mother nature takes over and what a cob structure looks like (very organic, mud back to mud). I started reading some of the book when I got home because his talk was so engaging. A very humane way to build!! I am hoping to go to one of the workshops in the future. http://www.deatech.com/cobcottage/ http://www.deatech.com/cobcottage/handsculpt.html http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890132349/002-7931199-6777645 http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1890132349.01.LZZZ.jpg I heard it noted recently that Californians spend almost 80% of their time indoors. Interesting since the climate out here is one of the best in the US. James Slayden On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, Kim Garth Travis wrote: I have found statistics that say for every three new houses built, one goes in the landfill, labor being more expensive than materials. This being true, many of us have figured out how to build with the landfill materials. There is a list dedicated to this topic, [EMAIL PROTECTED] One man has started a movement to use landfill rescue to build homes for low income working families using minimum wage help. His crew are usually young men that were at risk and after a year or two with him, they get hired by the big contractors. His web site is phoenixcommotion.com Congratulations on trying to reduce the waste and build sensibly, not an easy task with building codes, banks and insurance companies involved. Bright Blessings, Kim robert luis rabello wrote: Hello Everyone! It's been five months since I've been able to post here. My wife and I have built a new house, and not only have I learned a lot about the building process, I've been astonished at how much waste and inefficiency goes into putting up a home. 1. Builders love concrete. We used WAY more concrete than I believed we would when we first considered this project. I'm not certain we could have done much better than we did because our property slopes considerably, but concrete manufacturing is VERY energy intensive and next time we'll have to be more careful about property selection. Any ideas about alternatives out there? 2. The amount of waste generated by a building is simply astonishing! I own a Ford Ranger with a short wheelbase and a small box. I filled the thing 4 times with dimensional lumber cut too short for use, and hauled all of it out to my father in law so that he could mix it with his firewood this winter. (Generally speaking, dimensional lumber is so dry that it burns too quickly for a clean fire and therefore produces excessive smoke.) Surely gasification or clean pyrolysis would be much better alternatives than the landfill, where all of our oriented strand board, drywall, carpet scraps and other waste ended up. What's worse, is that our tradesmen kept saying that we actually had very little waste. . . Some of the houses going up around here have huge dumpsters that get filled more than once during the building! (I had asked the architect who drew our plans to minimize waste by making room sizes as close to standard dimensions as possible. We ended up with a bigger house for less money that way. Strange, isn't it?) 3. There's a certain momentum in doing things the conventional way. The lender at our credit union looked at me as if I was crazy when I said I wanted solar hot water. The builders simply didn't understand why I was so particular about southern orientation, minimizing north facing window sizes (our view is to the north, so I lost on that one. . ..), and people scratched their heads when I specified a relatively small electrical panel (just 100 amps of service!) and high efficiency lighting. We argued about extra insulation in the ceiling, heat in the floor and the tiny size of our natural gas boiler. There's a lot of ignorance about energy issues out there. I suppose people in forums like this one have a LOT of educating to do. . . robert luis rabello Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Re: [biofuel] Re: Back Online
Motie, I bless you for that link! :) It's just what I was looking for. James Slayden On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, motie_d wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only in America!!! I was not aware of that US made pallets of hardwood and did not think that it could ever be a stupid luxury consumption like this. I can see reason for some pallets to be made of hardwood, but they should be guarded and reused. But this irresponsible behavior cannot be excused. Six pallets of hardwood per American in land fills, give me a break! Hi Hakan, I suspect the actual number may be even higher. Truckers seem to get stuck with many of them. The problem is that so much stuff gets shipped on pallets, and receivers have huge piles of them on hand. They don't want any more, and require delivery trucks to take the pallets away when a delivery is made. Truckers have no need for them, and for a time were dumping them in the back lots of Truckstops, to such an extent that Truckstop Owenrs now hire Security Guards to prevent it. The cost to ship pallets back to the shipper is higher than the cost to produce new pallets. There is some effort in the Trucking industry to attempt to standardize the size of pallets to make them more reusable. Too many shippers have their own unique size and shape requirements. http://www.banditchippers.com/model_grinder3680.asp The solution for now, if a market can be found for the chips. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Forests - was [biofuel] Re: Back Online
Hey wait, this is starting to remind men of the BD BIG/small producers ;-) BTW, sustainable small logging operations are awesome! I applaude them. On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, motie_d wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see your point Motie, but I do think you're being a bit one- sided. I must admit to that possability. I've been sampling a bit of 'Lawn mower fuel' that came out particularly well. I think you can assign blame in three directions, probably with not much to choose between them: wrong-headed environmentalists, large-scale commercial logging concerns, and bureaucrats. May I distribute the blame among these 3 as I see it from my local perspective? 90% air-headed 'Environmentalists, 8% high-level Bureaucrats, 2% Big Loggers who have failed to refute mis-information about themselves, despite their best efforts. Small Independant Loggers don't even get an honorable mention, and are in fact a major key to any solution. None is blame-free, and on the other hand, all have their points Many of them under their Hats - none is entirely evil or foolish either. I'll concur that none are deliberately evil. 'Foolish' is highly debatable. Somehow they've managed to get themselves into the worst possible relationship with each other, with the forests and the public being the victims. Professional Loggers, both Big and Small, have had a good working relationship with Professional Forestry Agents to the benefit of the public and the Forests for many years. 'Environmentalists' with little knowledge and much dis/mis-information have exerted political pressure to high-level Bureaucrats and politicians to the detriment of all. Not unusual. Unfortunately, I agreee. Similarly, you won't find solutions by excluding any of the three, and I perceive that you'd like to exclude the environmentalists, and perhaps less so the bureaucrats. None of the 3 can be excluded, and I think the Small Independant Logger also needs to be included, as they are the real key to a workable solution. In my opinion, their needs to be a distinction between high-level Bureaucrats and the local Foresters. I see the problem as being between 'Environmentalists' and the well-being of our Forests. The Loggers and the Bureaucrats are caught in the middle. None of the concerned parties wants to deliberately destroy the Forests. Loggers and professional Foresters KNOW what they are doing. The 'Environmentalists' may have the best of intentions, but are near- totally ignorant about the issues involved. High-level Bureaucrats are next in line in factual knowledge, and therefore are more easily susceptible to mis-information spread by activists. They are also more concerned with their careers than the health of the Forests, and are willing to do anything to appease those who may put a black mark in their record. Much experience elsewhere has shown that if you do that, the bureaucrats and commercial concerns will between them make the situation far worse than it is now. The Environmentalists have too much political clout to be forcefully excluded.(And honestly legitimate concerns) They need to be educated as to the harm they are doing in their ignorance. The high-level Bureaucrats will go along with whichever direction seems to be in the best interests of their career. Taking all the rules away and letting in the loggers is not the solution, and there's a rather huge amount of unfortunate evidence to hand to attest to that. I've never proposed taking all the rules away. I just think that the rules should be based on factual needs of the forest, by professional Foresters, not by a bunch of activists without a clue. Forests need management. What you describe is mismanagement or no management. No excuse for that, plenty of experience available on good forest management. That is exactly my point. The current situation is run on rules made to appease a bunch of activists with NO background in forest management. Despite the common perception, Loggers, many into the 3rd generation, have no intention to 'destroy' the forests they make their living from, and are highly annoyed when 'Environmentalists with no knowledge of proper management practices are making all the rules to the severe detriment to the forests. One thing that's emerged most clearly from forest work in 3rd World countries is that successful projects very much include the involvement at all levels of the local communities. Local communities who rely on the forests for a living, have little input into National Forest Policies. The policy decisions are made by high-level Bureaucrats who are attempting to appease activists. Most of these Bureaucrats have little or no background in Forestry, and are therefore easily misled by popular misperceptions. They are administrators and political appointees,
Re: [biofuel] When you're a Geek and know what a computer can do .... You vote no Was: Direct Democracy
ah, unless it's an embedded system . ;) On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, csakima wrote: The problem with that system would be ... who would be the system administrator of such a system??? The Admin would have almost Godlike powers since, being in charge of how votes are processes, would be able to make anyone he chooses ... win the elections. And then later, through the media ahem explain why the dude won. I don't think I like the idea of having one single person (or two or three guys) control what the will of the people is. You think power is concentrated NOW ... you try wait until system administrator's got the power to elect or not elect at the click of a mouse. Nope, not me, Curtis Computer Geek Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wonder if anyone would like to make comment on the following... Direct Democracy Teledemocracy - E-Democracy .The teledemocracy movement seeks to reform government to include the voices of citizens in the policy making process. - Introducing NetZero Long Distance 1st month Free! Sign up today at: www.netzerolongdistance.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] electrical pump
and there is this: http://www.pumps-ez.com/pumps/0056064_0056064_1.html the list seems extensive. James Slayden On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, Juan Boveda wrote: Hello John I would suggest an used engine oil pump from a junk yard, some of them comes with a coarse filter, over it if you wish, you could add a metalic mesh in front of it and an electrical drill to drive the pump. Regards Juan You wrote: I need a heavy duty electrical pump for sucking up badly contaminated WVO. My old one just collapsed. Any suggestions? John Venema Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- ·FREE Health Insurance Quotes-eHealthInsurance.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/1.voSB/RnFFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Stars in their eyes
When WVO becomes a commodity and the price point reaches SVO, WVO will loose it's attractiveness. Unless Macky D's wants to start becoming a processor themselves (which may end up happening as since they are paying for the oil in the first place), I don't see any large margins in WVO for the fast food industry. Maybe the commodity cost will cover a partial cost of the original oil, but remember WVO is considered a waste hazard and a a renderer/BD processor could charge accordingly. And true hazardous waste disposal is quite expensive these days. ;-) Again, some large processors (and small ones) could secure far reaching contracts that obtain the WVO at a good price point right now. As time progresses some of the larger FF chains will smartin up and understand what they have. Also, the advent of a good renewable diesel synfuel could blow out any great hold on the market for WVO, and SVO for that matter. But there will always be people who care about the cycle of waste/sustainability and who will choose to purchase Biodiesel no matter what. I think that is called a niche market James Slayden On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, wannabeloved_2 wrote: Hello; Good point about third world... I can see the time when bio diesel will be marketed as a 'super' fuel and will priced accordingly--simple marketing dynamics. The only ones who will be able to afford it will be the very poor through aid programs or the well-to-do. I base this on my belief that raw fuel stocks such as WVO will become commodities-especially by the bigger chains McDonald'scDonalds-that can improve the profitability of restaurants. Oil is big business and when its demise comes bio diesel will be big business. My advise to the small producers is enjoy the present and be prepared to be eaten by the sharks( via buy outs or other less pleasant means). Best Regards Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] electrical pump
on this note, Mark mentioned that granger is down this way (south bay), but I can't seem to find a listing in the phone book. Anyone know directly their number down here so I can get over there? Thank, James Slayden On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, studio53 wrote: girl mark, I looked at the pump at Grainger. They also sell the head (pump) separate from the motor, so if one already had a motor... What is the RPMs on the you have? --- Jesse Parris | studio53 | 53 maitland rd | stamford, ct 06906 203.324.4371www.jesseparris.com/ - Original Message - From: girl mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:58 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] electrical pump I have a Teel fryer filter pump from Grainger, and I think it's Grainger model number 7P098 snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Homebrew problems
Didn't we process a batch from the same resturante that was good (ie. a later date)? I thought we did that during class. And you were mentioning how unusual it was that you had this bad oil from a formerly good source. Had the bad oil experience, then went back and tested again and it was good oil again? I guess this is why you say to bring a titration test kit when hunting oil. ;-) What your saying is really logical, that something acidic either got mixed in or rooting food caused and acidic condition. Dunno, although a scenario might be they just tossed some bad vinager/acidic crap in the bin. Operator error is usually the cause in computer stuff, so why should it be any different with a resturante? James Slayden On Tue, 26 Nov 2002, girl mark wrote: This brings up a question I';ve had for a while- are there other acids besides ffa, that are not water-soluble and are found in oils? We had some particularly terrible oil that titrated at 13 ml, and I just couldn't bring myself to believe that it was ffa causing the high values in the titration, as that restaurant always had decent oil before that particular sample. I tried doing what you're describing- washing the oil and pH testing the wash water and also re-titrating the oil layer to see if the acidity was something caused by water-solubles (vinegar from cooking, or acids from food rotting), and it seemed that it was still something insoluble, presumably ffa. thoughts? mark At 01:21 AM 11/27/2002 +, you wrote: The problems of quality of homebrew or commercial for that matter never seem to go away. As much as I would like to pretend that our bio is perfect, I want to share the latest of ours problems with the group in the hope that some one may benefit. I got a call that the fuel from the storage tank had clogged the filter on Tony's crane truck. Not with algae but with grease. Bear in mind that it been over 30°C. I went over the process that Tony had been using. We had been concentrating on fine tuning the separators to continually remove the glycerol as it formed, the fuel was completely reacted and the temperature was over the melting points of our longest fatty acid esters. The problem had to come from the washing. Now washing is a brutal affair compared with bubble washing and getting the emulsion to break involves acidifying the water(slightly I would have hoped.). I ran some thick cream from the bottom drain of the storage tank and tested it for FFA's by mixing with neutral water and titrating the layers. The water remained neutral but the oil took ¾ ml of standard NaOH . I deduced that I was dealing with FFA's not an inorganic acid. After performing a number of trials using acid catalysis and the three alcohols on hand. I found that the controls using alcohol alone reduced the acid number and clarified the product. Addition of 5% of methanol without the addition of Sulphuric clarified the goop within 30 minutes at ambient temperature. We modified the post washing stage . Drying was achieved by heating the fuel to 115° while pumping from the bottom and spraying over the open top. As the dry fuel cooled to 60°C 2% methanol was added and the lid closed for recirculating. Once cool, ~30°C, this fuel was pumped across to the storage vat. I have neglected research on the washing stage, hopefully we can shorten this step as well. When the separators work well a 200l batch can be reacted and separated to completion in under an hour. I believe that the separators would have to spin much faster to be of use in post-wash separation. I have designed a simple vertical centrifuge to take the place of the dairy separators. If I get around to building it I'll post the results. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio fuel business-Tables
Might you want to also provide a table with Hydrogen and producer gas also? Seems to me to be somewhat narrow, unless that is the intention. James Slayden On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Hi Keith, Thank you for your response and I am somewhat uncomfortable with the second table. I am not sure of that the presentation of political - commercial - influencing points are suitable in a table. Need to think more about it. Therefore I like to discuss the basics first and the table Characteristics, comparing Ethanol, Biodiesel and SVO. first. I do think that the table Characteristics, comparing Ethanol, Biodiesel and SVO. can be useful and ask you or others to suggest points that I maybe have missed. I must also underline that this is not a question of choice between them, they are all desperately needed and that is also covered in the table. On those points we agree. I have marked the points we agree on, in table at, http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofuelorg.shtml from yours at http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_compare.html The open points are: Possible crops: I changed this to Possible raw material sources, to be sure that I do not exclude trees and fruits. I like to have more discussions about this, but all that I have seen until now points to more source material for vegetable oil. Soil sensitivity: Here I am in deep water and need your expertise. It is a very important point and I would like you to analyze it further. Crop rotation problems: The same as previous point. But I thought with effective oil producing trees or more choices of crops, it would be easier to overcome. Fuel productivity per acre: Again, the production numbers I have seen for oil are better than for Ethanol. It is however a weak point, since we do not look at the total possible production of ethanol and veg oil from the same source. Possible bi-products: The same as for previous point. Veg. oil do opens up for a larger number of replacement applications, among those are many in the lubrication field. Chemical altering or distilling: I corrected this. Energy for production: I read a lot and I seems that ethanol is the most energy demanding process, oil pressing definitely is the least. Biodiesel as I understand the process, is much less energy demanding than alcohol. On producing raw material they are all similar, but distilling is a very energy demanding process. Net energy gain: The fossil fuel processes are also very energy demanding and not very effective, but it is mostly conversion processes to marketable products. Some of the raw material for ethanol, do contain more or less veg oil. We can maybe add this aspect also, but as I see it, it becomes a part of raw material evaluation. Cost to produce: See energy for production. End use efficiency: Needed clarification and I changed heading to End use efficiency for fuel/technology, this to clarify that a change in fuel/technology will achieve substantial energy savings. I do not think we will disagree with this. Needed quantity to replace fossil fuel: Water can be added to gasoline also, with similar energy savings. The difference is that the water/air have to be added at injection. All testimonies and technical adjustments point to more quantity use with replacement of gasoline with ethanol and unchanged quantities with replacements of diesel. Storage time: I corrected this. I do not cover combined production of ethanol and veg oil from the same source and it would be very useful to discuss this. Maybe it is not a biodiesel or ethanol business, it could be that you need to combine both for a good business. Hakan At 12:33 PM 12/5/2002 +0100, Hakan Falk wrote: Keith, Thank you, I will go through it and we will discuss the differences. Hakan At 08:02 PM 12/5/2002 +0900, you wrote: Hi Hakan It is difficult to make tables in mail, if you cannot use html. Therefore I also did the tables at the end of, http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofuelorg.shtml Hakan Difficult too to discuss them by email, for the same reason, so I copied your tables and did an alternative version for comparison, here: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_compare.html Best Keith At 04:08 PM 12/4/2002 +0100, Hakan Falk wrote: Keith, Original draft for article at http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofuelorg.shtml You just posted several press releases from oil companies and these are quite telling. They touch very much the subject of my article. The situation in Poland and the moonshine argument, show the relevance of this discussion. David have already started to think about it and I hope that we get more valuable views. To add to the discussion about centralization versus decentralization risk for Ethanol and biodiesel/SVO, I have done the following tables. I
Re: [biofuel] BioD - 70's Mercedes
Could someone point Lee to a Moonlighting Diesel Mech in the Bay Area. I know him personally and he would like to get his 300D going on BD (I have an interest here to make some fuel for him pro-bono for my own experience). So, if anyone knows of anyone, it would help him. Thanks, James Slayden On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: craig, i have a 1980 merc. 300 d. what evperiance are you looking for? I'm looking for a mechanic to help me get it running. It has a rebuilt engine that is good but the fuel injection pump needs to be aligned. lee Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Interesting info for Bay Area BD proponents
While perusing the West Coast Biofuels page, I came across their Biodiesel Users area and what did I find: - San Jose Green Team Recycling and Trash services runs their equipment on B20 a blend of 20% BioDiesel and 80% petroleum diesel. Trash trucks travel at low speeds and operate thier equipment at high idle causing these trucks to be heavy polluters in our neighborhoods. Green Team has taken the lead to improve air quality and reduce harmful emissions. They have seen no difference in performance compared to petroleum diesel said, Todd Hanson, Director of Operations everyone notices the improved smell and that the exhaust cleaner using BioDiesel. -- Now to get them to utilize B100. Sigh James Slayden Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio fuel business-Tables
Hi Hakan, I would counter what is ready for use? Seems to me there is quite a few CNG vehicles out there that would be able to run on producer gas without neary a hitch. As for Hydro, a gas conversion to a standard petro vehicle is possible now. The only thing that is missing on both is a fueling infrastructure. I believe there are now stand alone units for producing hydro at petro stations via natural gas and electrolysis. Well, unless one is in the midwest, E-85 really isn't an option, and to convert a standard engine would be about the same as converting to CNG or Hydro. The only true ready for use alternative fuel is BD. Not to say there isn't room for all of the above in varying stages of implementation, which is what I think your getting at. James Slayden On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Dear James, I will be happy to, if it is a ready for use technology and anyone of us could start a bio fuel business around it. The concept of my article is bio fuel business. With the demand of ready for use technologies, the subject is surprisingly narrow and it says something about the real stage of things, on short and medium term. Toyota and Honda have just leased fuel cell cars and they say that production of the cars is planned to start in about 8-9 years. It will take at least 3-4 replacement cycles before it will have a major impact on the fleets. Maybe I will still be alive and in this case I am 100 years old, but I will remember it and include in the list at that time. If I forget it, I am sure that you or Keith will remind me. (do not feel offended by my joke, it is only their as a reminder of the time lines) It is however interesting and I have noted it down and will expand the table on a more long term subject. Hakan At 10:26 AM 12/5/2002 -0800, you wrote: Might you want to also provide a table with Hydrogen and producer gas also? Seems to me to be somewhat narrow, unless that is the intention. James Slayden On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Hi Keith, Thank you for your response and I am somewhat uncomfortable with the second table. I am not sure of that the presentation of political - commercial - influencing points are suitable in a table. Need to think more about it. Therefore I like to discuss the basics first and the table Characteristics, comparing Ethanol, Biodiesel and SVO. first. I do think that the table Characteristics, comparing Ethanol, Biodiesel and SVO. can be useful and ask you or others to suggest points that I maybe have missed. I must also underline that this is not a question of choice between them, they are all desperately needed and that is also covered in the table. On those points we agree. I have marked the points we agree on, in table at, http://energy.saving.nu/biofuels/biofuelorg.shtml from yours at http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_compare.html The open points are: Possible crops: I changed this to Possible raw material sources, to be sure that I do not exclude trees and fruits. I like to have more discussions about this, but all that I have seen until now points to more source material for vegetable oil. Soil sensitivity: Here I am in deep water and need your expertise. It is a very important point and I would like you to analyze it further. Crop rotation problems: The same as previous point. But I thought with effective oil producing trees or more choices of crops, it would be easier to overcome. Fuel productivity per acre: Again, the production numbers I have seen for oil are better than for Ethanol. It is however a weak point, since we do not look at the total possible production of ethanol and veg oil from the same source. Possible bi-products: The same as for previous point. Veg. oil do opens up for a larger number of replacement applications, among those are many in the lubrication field. Chemical altering or distilling: I corrected this. Energy for production: I read a lot and I seems that ethanol is the most energy demanding process, oil pressing definitely is the least. Biodiesel as I understand the process, is much less energy demanding than alcohol. On producing raw material they are all similar, but distilling is a very energy demanding process. Net energy gain: The fossil fuel processes are also very energy demanding and not very effective, but it is mostly conversion processes to marketable products. Some of the raw material for ethanol, do contain more or less veg oil. We can maybe add this aspect also, but as I see it, it becomes a part of raw material evaluation. Cost to produce: See energy for production. End use efficiency: Needed clarification and I changed heading to End use efficiency for fuel/technology, this to clarify that a change in fuel/technology
Re: [biofuel] Interesting info for Bay Area BD proponents
West Coast Biofuels, Inc. www.westcoastbiofuels.com Located in Newport beach, contact Dick O'Rourke On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, girl mark wrote: James, what webpage is this west coast one you're talking about? Mark At 02:56 PM 12/5/2002 -0800, you wrote: While perusing the West Coast Biofuels page, I came across their Biodiesel Users area and what did I find: - [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A Really Dumb Idea
Robert, A good many of the Ford Rangers are already set up as FFV's, might want to check to see if you model is one. Ususlly there is a little plack on the gate that has a highway and a greenleaf. But I would check with a model database online to verify for sure. If it is an FFV it will allow you to run E-85, ie. 85% ethanol - 15% gas. Then you could blend your own. James Slayden On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, robert luis rabello wrote: Hello everyone! I now live a little over 40 km away from work, and during my drive home tonight I was mulling over the whole idea of using ethanol as a fuel for my 2.3 liter Ford Ranger. The problem with distillation, aside from legality issues, stems from the energy required to adequately separate ethanol from water. So I did a little bit of math in my head: My truck uses 1 liter of gasoline for roughly every 10 kilometers of travel. That's a little more than 3 kw of energy--most of which (at least 50%) ends up in either the coolant or the exhaust. For every 10 kilometers I drive, I have at least 1 500 watts of throw away energy available in the form of heat. Let's pretend for a moment that I have a tank of fermented beer and a tank of water onboard. The water will be pumped to the front of my truck and run through a transmission cooler to lower its temperature. The beer, on the other hand, gets pumped through a heat exchanger connected to the hottest part of my truck's radiator. (If I need more heat, I can use the exhaust header.) By designing a zig zag, or coiled stripping column (using the cooled water to regulate temperature), I could separate the ethanol and return the tailings to the beer tank. (In fact, I COULD use my engine to drive a vacuum pump that would allow lower temperature operation too!) The ethanol can run through another transmission cooler which acts as a condenser, and from there into the truck's main fuel tank. It's distillation as you drive! Perhaps I need some sleep right now. . . Has anyone experimented with ethanol using oversized injectors on a computer controlled multi port fuel injection engine? robert luis rabello Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio fuel business-Tables
Hi Hakan, The net energy in Cellulose based ethanol might be higher if the lingin is burned for processing. Since there is issues burning the Glyc from BD it wouldn't add to the BD net energy. The window of opportunity is really dependent on feedstock availability which really isn't decreasing. It might be that with WVO as the feedstock a baseline commodity pricing structure will occur, but again as Keith just posted again that the average collection of WVO runs around 10% there is a good lead in period before pricing structures begin (in general). With Ethanol, the perception barrier to opposition and acceptance is the utilization of Cellulostic feedstock vs. food crop feedstock. Not that in the real world this is an issue, just a hyped perception issue by the media. As we well know that most of the grains in this counrty go to animal feed anyway. But acceptance will be based on this false assumption. Looking at the table, you might want to put a catagory like Socitial Acceptance to define some possible inhibitors. James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Hi Keith, Thank you for the help, it is very useful. At 07:36 PM 12/6/2002 +0900, you wrote: snip Possible bi-products: The same as for previous point. Veg. oil do opens up for a larger number of replacement applications, among those are many in the lubrication field. The main by-product of each is stockfeed - DDG and seedcake, not much to choose between them. Ethanol's use as an oxygenate additive to gasoline is comparable to the use of B5 as a lubrication booster for ULSD. Lubricants made from vegoils are not for backyard operations - centralized. I think the major difference is perhaps the heating oil application, and power generation. snip Energy for production: I read a lot and I seems that ethanol is the most energy demanding process, oil pressing definitely is the least. Biodiesel as I understand the process, is much less energy demanding than alcohol. On producing raw material they are all similar, but distilling is a very energy demanding process. See above. See also Butterfield still references above. Plant Performance Data http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/Butterfield/butterfield1.html#perf Any process that uses a change of state i.e. solid to liquid to gas, uses a lot of energy at boiling temperature. This even if you have a recuperating system. I also read the link, http://www.carbohydrateeconomy.org/ceic/library/admin/uploadedfiles/How_Much_En rgy_Does_it_Take_to_Make_a_Gallon_.html carefully and it says about Btu per gallon, Corn based, Industry average : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 27,579 - (used energy) 81,090 = 30,589 (38% gain) Corn based, Industry best : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 36,261 - (used energy) 57,504 = 62,857 (109% gain) Corn based, State of the Art Industry : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 36,261 - (used energy) 47,948 = 62,857 (151% gain) Cellulose based, Industry : net energy gain = (energy ethanol) 81,400 + (energy undefined co-products) 115,400 - (used energy) 76,093 = 122,407 (162% gain) What are the co-products? Do they go in the tank? How do you use Gluten meal, Protein feed and Carbon dioxide in the tank? Read for Biodiesel that for 1 unit energy used it goes 3.2 units in the tank. If you do not mind, I will keep my evaluation for this. Sugar ethanol production tends to use the bagasse as an energy source. I think there are many such possibilities. Also there's the relative value of using non-mobile fuel to produce mobile fuel, which puts a different sort of value on it. (Same with biodiesel perhaps.) Yes, bagasse can be used as heating source or as feedstock, this is the same as they do for fossil fuel. Since we have not done comparable evaluation for Biodiesel, the byproducts energy values are missing. I suspect that this and the less use of fertilizers, pesticides, irrigation, more manual labor etc. are the reasons why Ethanol from sugar cane are a definite positive energy producer in Brazil. Net energy gain: The fossil fuel processes are also very energy demanding and not very effective, but it is mostly conversion processes to marketable products. Some of the raw material for ethanol, do contain more or less veg oil. We can maybe add this aspect also, but as I see it, it becomes a part of raw material evaluation. It's hardly explored - as I keep saying, what about the oil in the maize? And so on. See previous point. Cost to produce: See energy for production. See Butterfield refs. See Energy for production. End use efficiency: Needed clarification and I changed heading to End use efficiency for fuel/technology, this to clarify that a change in fuel/technology
Re: [biofuel] Casual Observations
WOW!! Really scary site. Take a look under the database of field trials and ya get to see all the nice GMO foods out there, country, and GMO supplier. Now I know where Crichton get's his story line from James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, k5farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We added more free fatty acids to the oil and then added the caustic, explains Wan. Though the method doesn't seem logical, it worked. The oil was lighter in color than before, and all its existing free fatty acids as well as those that Wan had supplied were essentially removed. Can't copy the specific link but go to: http://www.agribiz.com/INTEGRO/Bionews/ and select the link /From Oil Refinement to Baby Formula/ They didn't happen to say anything about ratios/amounts! But something to think about, eh? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A Really Dumb Idea
Tailgate http://www.ford.com/en/ourVehicles/environmentalVehicles/ethanolVehicles.htm There are links from there to check which models/years. James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Kim Garth Travis wrote: What year Rangers? What do you mean by 'gate'? Bright Blessings, Kim James Slayden wrote: Robert, A good many of the Ford Rangers are already set up as FFV's, might want to check to see if you model is one. Ususlly there is a little plack on the gate that has a highway and a greenleaf. But I would check with a model database online to verify for sure. If it is an FFV it will allow you to run E-85, ie. 85% ethanol - 15% gas. Then you could blend your own. James Slayden On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, robert luis rabello wrote: Hello everyone! I now live a little over 40 km away from work, and during my drive home tonight I was mulling over the whole idea of using ethanol as a fuel for my 2.3 liter Ford Ranger. The problem with distillation, aside from legality issues, stems from the energy required to adequately separate ethanol from water. So I did a little bit of math in my head: My truck uses 1 liter of gasoline for roughly every 10 kilometers of travel. That's a little more than 3 kw of energy--most of which (at least 50%) ends up in either the coolant or the exhaust. For every 10 kilometers I drive, I have at least 1 500 watts of throw away energy available in the form of heat. Let's pretend for a moment that I have a tank of fermented beer and a tank of water onboard. The water will be pumped to the front of my truck and run through a transmission cooler to lower its temperature. The beer, on the other hand, gets pumped through a heat exchanger connected to the hottest part of my truck's radiator. (If I need more heat, I can use the exhaust header.) By designing a zig zag, or coiled stripping column (using the cooled water to regulate temperature), I could separate the ethanol and return the tailings to the beer tank. (In fact, I COULD use my engine to drive a vacuum pump that would allow lower temperature operation too!) The ethanol can run through another transmission cooler which acts as a condenser, and from there into the truck's main fuel tank. It's distillation as you drive! Perhaps I need some sleep right now. . . Has anyone experimented with ethanol using oversized injectors on a computer controlled multi port fuel injection engine? robert luis rabello Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A Really Dumb Idea
sorry, here is a better link: http://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/2000/BBRANGER.PDF Looks like the 3.0L(182 CID) FFV SEFI V-6 is the model to look for James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Kim Garth Travis wrote: What year Rangers? What do you mean by 'gate'? Bright Blessings, Kim James Slayden wrote: Robert, A good many of the Ford Rangers are already set up as FFV's, might want to check to see if you model is one. Ususlly there is a little plack on the gate that has a highway and a greenleaf. But I would check with a model database online to verify for sure. If it is an FFV it will allow you to run E-85, ie. 85% ethanol - 15% gas. Then you could blend your own. James Slayden On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, robert luis rabello wrote: Hello everyone! I now live a little over 40 km away from work, and during my drive home tonight I was mulling over the whole idea of using ethanol as a fuel for my 2.3 liter Ford Ranger. The problem with distillation, aside from legality issues, stems from the energy required to adequately separate ethanol from water. So I did a little bit of math in my head: My truck uses 1 liter of gasoline for roughly every 10 kilometers of travel. That's a little more than 3 kw of energy--most of which (at least 50%) ends up in either the coolant or the exhaust. For every 10 kilometers I drive, I have at least 1 500 watts of throw away energy available in the form of heat. Let's pretend for a moment that I have a tank of fermented beer and a tank of water onboard. The water will be pumped to the front of my truck and run through a transmission cooler to lower its temperature. The beer, on the other hand, gets pumped through a heat exchanger connected to the hottest part of my truck's radiator. (If I need more heat, I can use the exhaust header.) By designing a zig zag, or coiled stripping column (using the cooled water to regulate temperature), I could separate the ethanol and return the tailings to the beer tank. (In fact, I COULD use my engine to drive a vacuum pump that would allow lower temperature operation too!) The ethanol can run through another transmission cooler which acts as a condenser, and from there into the truck's main fuel tank. It's distillation as you drive! Perhaps I need some sleep right now. . . Has anyone experimented with ethanol using oversized injectors on a computer controlled multi port fuel injection engine? robert luis rabello Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Car power inverter on sale
Hola Biofuelers, There is an 400watt Auto DC/AC Power inverter on sale at Target. Since the cost of the Greasecar/Neoteric's oil pumping unit may be beyond some of our pocketbooks, the inverter w/ a 110AC pump might be a substitute. It looks like it has both battery clips and a optional lighter socket. Enjoy, James Slayden Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio fuel business-Tables
Hi Hakan, On the note of Socitial Acceptance, it is more than just a Big vs. Small issue, it is a usage issue by the public. If a consumer 'perceives' some sort of limitation in the acceptance and usage of a alternative fuel, then the business case will have to overcome and be able to sustain that perception for a period of time. Ethanol and Biodiesel are still somewhat stigmatized, although there is push to overcome this at many levels. Last year ADM was running ads on television for ethanol, which I can only assume is priming the market. Quite effective for prepairing folks to make a switch to an alterantive fuel. By the time they do sell E85 in a market, there will be enough interest to sustain that market until the economies of scale come into play. This actually benefits the small producer as his product is locally produced and sold, thus lowering his overhead. The small producer benefits from the blanket media infusion of a Big Alternative Fuels. The only thing the Big AF has to do is void the credability of the small producer to maintain the market. And the only thing the small producer has to do is secure enough local contracts to maintain the business. It then becomes more of a niche market for the local producer, which can also be very lucrative. Lots of niche markets survive out there and do extreemely well. If I was a small producer, I would try to distinguish my product from Big AF, maybe in utilizing an all organic feedstock, or maybe emphasizing my local community connections, or even the nature of my feedstock source such as using WVO as opposed to using GMO crop residue, etc. A great amount of marketing leaway here. ;-) James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Hi James, Very good, a lot in a short message. This idea about biofuel business start to be more work than I originally thought. Taking the idea of a business, does put some real sustainable demands on the thoughts. Every time I get a few moments to think about it, several new ideas pops up in my mind, nearly as frequent as the irritating pop-up ads on Internet. 1. Crops and trees give some burnable residues for BD also. 2. Good point about WVO, so a sustainable BD business need to be based on SVO. 3. I see more and more recycling plants for WVO to BD. Large Spanish interests are putting up 4 of them and are starting to pay for WVO. This supports your thoughts. 4. Social acceptance is a good one and touch very much the table (presentation) big vs. small that I still thinking about. How do you present and evaluate this kind of things. Hakan At 08:36 PM 12/6/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hi Hakan, The net energy in Cellulose based ethanol might be higher if the lingin is burned for processing. Since there is issues burning the Glyc from BD it wouldn't add to the BD net energy. The window of opportunity is really dependent on feedstock availability which really isn't decreasing. It might be that with WVO as the feedstock a baseline commodity pricing structure will occur, but again as Keith just posted again that the average collection of WVO runs around 10% there is a good lead in period before pricing structures begin (in general). With Ethanol, the perception barrier to opposition and acceptance is the utilization of Cellulostic feedstock vs. food crop feedstock. Not that in the real world this is an issue, just a hyped perception issue by the media. As we well know that most of the grains in this counrty go to animal feed anyway. But acceptance will be based on this false assumption. Looking at the table, you might want to put a catagory like Socitial Acceptance to define some possible inhibitors. James Slayden On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Hakan Falk wrote: Hi Keith, Thank you for the help, it is very useful. At 07:36 PM 12/6/2002 +0900, you wrote: snip Possible bi-products: The same as for previous point. Veg. oil do opens up for a larger number of replacement applications, among those are many in the lubrication field. The main by-product of each is stockfeed - DDG and seedcake, not much to choose between them. Ethanol's use as an oxygenate additive to gasoline is comparable to the use of B5 as a lubrication booster for ULSD. Lubricants made from vegoils are not for backyard operations - centralized. I think the major difference is perhaps the heating oil application, and power generation. snip Energy for production: I read a lot and I seems that ethanol is the most energy demanding process, oil pressing definitely is the least. Biodiesel as I understand the process, is much less energy demanding than alcohol. On producing raw material they are all similar, but distilling is a very energy demanding process. See above. See also Butterfield still references above. Plant Performance Data http://journeytoforever.org
Re: [biofuel] [m]ethyl esters to methane
Would be interesting to to have that methane cleaned up and processed into methanol. :) A small bio-source of methanol . mm Anyone know of a small methanol processing unit? James Slayden On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, girl mark wrote: It seems a little backwards to do this- after all the methanol is reformulated from methane, no? I'm reading a great book called 'a chinese biogas manual' about methane digesters. they're mostly talking about large-scale (large family or work group within a large rural commune). My friend the UC Davis grad student studying digesters (and building them, and teaching about them, and probably thinking about little but anaerobic bacteria and how to make them comfortable!) uses a small-scale design that's based on an old water heater as a demo digester. DOn't know how much comes out of one of those but I think it's signficant. So there's fairly easy ways of making methane without resorting to chemical cracking of hydrocarbons when the bacteria can do it for you. One of my buddies wants to build one to digest excess glycerine from biodiesel. Mark At 12:44 AM 12/13/2002 -0500, you wrote: Well I have been reading about hydrocarbon cracking on the hobbicast list and trying to stir up some information. So I was thinking about biodiesel and wondering if you could do the same with it. Perhaps I can burn biodiesel in my melting furnace! :) Or perhaps biodiesel could be broken into thinner chains to make it's gel point lower. My sister is a chemistry major I'll have to ask her. Shameless endorsement: hobbicast http://infoarchive.net/index.php?list=hobbicasthttp://infoarchive.net/index php?list=hobbicast is archived at the infoarchive http://infoarchive.net/http://infoarchive.net/, as well as 12 other groups. Glenn wrote: Martin, Time to dig out the organic chemistry books again :) In theory it is possible to break methyl esters or any other hydrocarbon chain into smaller CH4 molecules. -- --- Martin Klingensmith http://nnytech.net/http://nnytech.net/ http://infoarchive.net/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel. tml Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] [m]ethyl esters to methane
hrmm, wonder if that would work for glyc . (my brain starts turning). On Thu, 12 Dec 2002, robert luis rabello wrote: Glenn wrote: In theory it is possible to break methyl esters or any other hydrocarbon chain into smaller CH4 molecules. Design a device that's borrowed from a Babington Burner, limit the air intake and install a heavy duty spark plug with the grounding flange removed. Use another modified spark plug as the ground and install it across from the first one. Apply direct current voltage to this when the air compressor and oil pump are working. If you really want to get fancy, run the resulting plasma gas through a catalyst and inject a bit of steam. You should end up with hydrogen and carbon monoxide gas. It may not be methane, but it will burn cleanly. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Engine conversion
stick with converting it to E85 or NG. On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Ozan Tezer wrote: Hello, I produce biodiesel and plan to convert a car engine that works with gas to diesel. I plan to use diesel injectors, instead of spark plugs. I know the compression ratio is different, but I wonder if it works or not. Any idea about it..? also mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Embodied energy
I know of someone who has a two story HUGE strawbale house in the Santa Cruz mountains, 12K of solar completely off the grid, solar water heating for both home, spa, and subfloor heading. They provided for awesome passive heating on the south window structure. Let me know if you want to visit and I will call them for a walk through. BTW, also have a Yoga studio attached to the house that one of the owners teachs in. Nice people with some great applications of doing things right. Just the idea that your going to use alternative building technology puts you ahead of 99.99% of standard building. James Slayden On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Grahams wrote: At 08:40 PM 12/12/2002, you wrote: This is a bit OT, but I don't know where else to address an audience with the potential interest level. I'm planning to build a new house in a rural area, and I'd like to do it in an ecologically sound way. The plan at present is 1700 sq.ft., straw bale walls, minimal usage of wood and concrete, Research , research, research... did I get my point across? Building a house is a BIG financial and lifestyle investment. Before you choose or discard any options try to find someone who has a working model of that component. Some research of straw bale that I ran across showed that within a year there was significant mold growth. I am sure this is climate related, yet certainly worth considering.I chose cellulose insulation, due to it's cost and the fact that it is recycled newspaper. I don't know whether this is why or not- but this winter (2nd in this house) we are overrun with mice living in it. Not that big a deal, (till you find the dead ones trapped in the file cabinet smelling up that whole room) but I never considered that. Also, wood is certainly a renewable resource- your common 2x4 can be harvested every 8-10 years on our woods. We are considering cob for our next building project. If you are building in a place with dirt-(not just sand). This may meet many of your goals. ( tip- I would purchase a tractor with a loader.) etc etc. I've run across a measure of environmental impact called embodied energy, which tries to include not only the energy required to manufacture the basic material, but also such factors as the energy needed to transport the raw and finished materials, the amount of labor needed to install (ie, transporting n workers to a site), This could also be interpreted as just plain expense, which comes up for everyone as they try to make a sustainable housing project a reality. The more unusual or out of the ordinary, unless very simple, will be more expensive in labor. This is a big deal IMO, construction workers are seldom known for their intellectual abilities. I chose a manufactured straight truss- only so their would be no on site labor cost and associated possible problems. I found a wonderfully easy to install reflective metal roof which my workers could install rather than getting a roofer. On the other hand, the insulation factory is 15 miles away, yet I had to purchase it from a retailer 30 miles away, in order to get use of the blower- wasteful, yet simpler and less expensive. as well as the lifetime of the end result. Once again this is an expense issue. I chose concrete blocks, stone or brick, because of so many old building I saw, still useable or reclaimable when clad in this material. As my aunt used to say- You can't build a 1990's house at 1960's labor prices. the labor that went into the brick on a colonial house has paid for itself, many times over. The clapboard has only been preserved with many coats of paint over the years. For this however, I think you must use your own common sense and think it out. What can you see currently that has lasted . This does give new stuff a serious disadvantage, but that is just the way it is. We chose an in floor radiant heat system. I have had lots of problems with the pump needing to be replaced EVERY year after being dormant for the summer. Perhaps it is a bad pump, yet this could become way more expensive and bothersome than a traditional tried and true heating system would have been. Unfortunately, this index (imprecise at best) DOESN'T typically seem to address two issues of particular concern to me -- carbon burden (atmospheric), and sustainability (how long will supplies of the material last at current consumption rates). Maybe that's because the bulk of the work was done in the 70's, when such info was less significant or not yet emphasized. Anyway, does anyone know of RECENT research addressing these issues as they pertain to home construction methods? Steel roofs vs comp shingle Don't know the embodied energy rating, but a reflective roof will significantly reduce cooling needs. One fellow at the DOE said that if CA had all white or reflective roofs they would have 100 less smog days per year
[biofuel] Interesting way to get the water out of BD
Hehehehehe, check this out http://www.mitm.com/wt_drum_evaporator.html James Slayden Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
