Hello,
Small question, is it safe/correct to use just one WSocket component
for doing both listening and sending data ?
I actually use two WSocket, one for broadcast listening and other to
send the answer to each machine that broadcasted.
May I use just one component withtou loosing any
Hello Wilfried,
Yes I know about UDP, it is just for one packet sending to detect were
server is located and then server answer back an udp packet so the
client machine know server's IP address and can connect to server
automatically.
Regards.
WM Hello Dod,
WM For UDP you can use same
Hello Angus,
IP Helper is the only thing you need, no specific driver if it's only
bandwidth.
It permit also to get separate traffic for each card.
Regards.
ARMSL I always though that proper monitoring of TCP/IP traffic required a
ARMSL device driver, but BMExtreme seems to manage it through
Hello Angus,
I forgot to tell that if you need to stats specific ports or IP then
you'll need to use WinPcap packet capture (finding delphi wrapper is
easy).
Delphi cannot be used to create dynamic drivers so you'll not be able to create
some .sys that would load/unload easy.
Regards.
ARMSL I
Hello Angus,
Sorry but ... I use it for my TinyResMeter tool and I can perfectly
distingish network card.
IP Helper is the only thing you need, no specific driver if it's only
bandwidth.
It permit also to get separate traffic for each card.
ARMSL Sorry, you are wrong. IP Helper only
Hello Angus,
OK I understand what you mean. IP Helper can distinguish between
netcard but not IP on same card, that is why I told you about WinPCap.
Regards.
IP Helper is the only thing you need, no specific driver if it's only
bandwidth.
It permit also to get separate traffic for each
Hello Primož,
Yep, that may be a trick.
Sorry, you are wrong. IP Helper only monitors all traffic
through a card, it does not distinguish LAN or WAN (via a
router) traffic.
So it is useless for monitoring routed WAN traffic, which
needs to be identified by IP address range.
PG I
Sorry about my intervention but I just would like to tell this :
- It is true that hobbyist developpers like to get latest
Delphi version (pirated or free personnal version).
- It is true that professional developpers don't have time or resource
to spend in upgrading to upper versions of
Hello Francois,
So I was wrong and it is nice because I tended to avoid local vars
declarations :-) But I remember having read somewhere that
using/accessing local vars was slower than global ones and this why I
said that.
WM Variables on the stack does not consume time. Only
Also remember that if you use xDSL connection your upload bandwidth
much smaller than download one.
Is GET faster than PUT?
In my tests GET performs seven times faster than PUT.
FP Considering the transport, there is no reason to have a speed difference.
Server caches files, is that the
Hello Arno,
I could but...don't remember where is my stop-time watch I just bought
around the corner to make it pause life-time for next 10 years :-)
AG Dod wrote:
Also remember that if you use xDSL connection your upload bandwidth
much smaller than download one.
AG Yes I know, I was just
Nice to see some faces :-)
FP Ever wanted to know who are the ICS experts taking time to answer your
FP questions ?
FP Just have a look at this page:
FP http://www.overbyte.be/eng/overbyte/teamics.html
FP Contribute to the SSL Effort. Visit http://www.overbyte.be/eng/ssl.html
FP --
FP [EMAIL
Hello Francois,
This would be nice :-) I heard you talking about this one year before
and I was wondering when you planned to implement it officially.
FP I have a development version for TWSocket which share the same window handle
FP for as many TWSocket as you like (for one as now to any large
Hello,
Is is a BSOD ? do you have a firewall running on the server machine ?
If yes, then UNINSTALL (not only de-activate) the firewall for the
stress test.
When I did stress test on my apps I got BSOD and it was because my
Kerio Personal Firewall 2.1.5 crash system after about
Hello Wilfried,
WM My experiance learns average 6 kb but is depending on send/receive
WM traffic.
OK but thinking about it, Windows granuality if 4KB so memory usage
should be 4/8/12/16 and not 6 or 10KB ...
WM Let the diconnection do by the clients instead of the server, then you
WM will not
Hello Wilfried,
OK I add this information to the Note.
Any other advice, trick ?
Do you mean that if it is the client that disconnect from server then
TIME_WAIT server side will not appear ?
WM Correct.
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Hello Francois,
Found it on http://support.microsoft.com/kb/327699/en-us
this apply to XP but I found the same key in Win2K
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Windows\
USERProcessHandleQuota = 18000 (default 1)
and also
USERPostMessageLimit (REG_DWORD) should increase message
Following my previous mail, here is the answer of a question I
asked many times in the mailing list.
Hello Francois,
Great !
By the way, I did a mistake in :
Following my previous mail, here is the answer of a question I
asked many times in the mailing list.
Please understand a question I SAW many times in the mailing list
and not I asked :-)
regards.
FP See the new ICS V6 beta I've
Hello Francois,
I tried to install but it says THttpCli class already exists so I
removed old ICS and just added INCDEFS.INC (and IcsMD5.pas I need)
that seems to be the minimum to install V6 package.
Regards.
FP ICS V6 beta available for download from ICS web pasge.
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Hello,
It was already in the small sheet V5/V6 is ICS used version.
FP Hidden windows are user objects. Since their number is drastically reduce,
FP the number of user objects are reduced. Would be interesting to compare
FP figures with ICS-V6 and with previous version.
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Hello,
I tried to Install both packages but there are some problems like
THttpClient class already exists.
Keeping both may be usefull to be able to open old V5 applications and
also new V6 ones.
FT Maybe I missed: why do you need to rename? Why would one person need to
FT install both v5 and
Hello Francois,
I prefer use Delphi 6 instead Delphi 7 but I think it should
theorically work without changes isn't it ?
FP I plan to support Delphi 7, Delphi 2006 (Win32 and .NET) and C-Builder 2006
FP only.
FP Any tought ?
FP --
FP Contribute to the SSL Effort. Visit
Hello,
I even didn't knew Delphi 2006 existed :-) The last stable version
for me is Delphi 6, Delphi 7 has lot more bugs and I don't talk about
Delphi 2005 that's why I stopped being interested in any new Delphi
version...
What do you like in Delphi 2006 ? may be I'll have a look if you think
Hello Francois,
Using sysinternals tools, it show each connected socket use in 3
handles :
1 Event
1 File \Device\Tcp
1 File \Device\Afd\Endpoint
I don't know what \Afd\EndPoint is nor the unnamed Event.
Regards.
Seems that 1 connected user eat 3 handles...I
Hello,
Excellent idea so you can use either TWSocket or TIcsSocket as you
want !
Rename classes as wanted ie. TWSocket to TIcsSocket (or using
any other prefix), then create proxy unit like below.
type
TWSocket = class(TIcsSocket);
FP What a good idea ! I wonder how I didn't had it
Hello,
I am starting a re-write one of my ICS-based server to be able to
handle 15.000 permanent cnx smoothly. The datas Clients will
send/receive will be only 2KB packets time to time.
As Windows OS is limited with sockets and handle (whenever you can do
some tricky changes in
Hello Wilfried,
Yes, I also thought that concentrator-to-server could be direct TCP-IP
or any other kind of protocol (HTTP tunneling for example), also I
found other advantage, I could make concentrator-to-server connection
initiator, or server-to-concentrator way so this would be nice
whenever
Hello Andrew,
Create one instance HTTPCli per upload ?
AL Does anyone have an example of mulitple file upload using HTTP. I've
AL downloaded httpcliexample.zip and can upload single files, however when I
AL try to upload mulitple files I get HTTP busy all the time and only upload
AL the first
Hello,
Still on my 15.000 cnx project, I will have 3 connectors that should
accept 5000 users each, each connector will then link o server itself.
Because I want to send TCP datas to all users as fast as possible, I
think I will have 10 threads per connector, each thread attaching
equal
Hello Francois,
OK, so may be I could take care about OnSendData to avoid Winsock
getting to much data in buffer (remembering that toses data could only
feet in 1/4 physical limited RAM size).
May .send loop for the 5.000 users overload the buffer and crash
system ?
If yes then I
Hello,
Mistaken... s/OnSendData/OnDataSent
D OK, so may be I could take care about OnSendData to avoid Winsock
D getting to much data in buffer (remembering that toses data could only
D feet in 1/4 physical limited RAM size).
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Hello Fastream,
Well, after some discussions here it appear there is a limitation of
1/4 of physical memory with max of 256MB (more on 64bit Windows) if I
am right.
Then you should count with max handle windows can manage (about 10.000
standard and 18.000 with registry tricks).
Then you
Hello,
Then you should count with max handle windows can manage (about 10.000
standard and 18.000 with registry tricks).
FT Is this valid also for v6?
V6 don't need one handle per socket anymore.
But seems that Winsock itself uses 3 handles per socket, this is at
least what I saw in my
Hello,
Then you must divide memory with ram size occupied per socket, some
reported about 6KB average, my own tests showed rather 10KB. Not
counting all other processes/drivers that may allocate memory in this
segment.
FT Is this paged memory or non-paged also ok?
Sorry I mistaken,
Hello Wilfried,
Thanx i'll check all this.
Regards.
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Hello David,
Actual ICS betas are more stable than any Microsoft Windows alpha :-)
DM I'm moving from Delphi 7 to Delphi 2006 and I want to install ICS
DM components (actual stable release, not beta).
DM Where are (if exists, I don't see it) the Delphi 2006 packages?
DM Can I use new ones (beta)
Hello,
For sure, ICS in know so perfect and we all know the libs 1% that
we don't need this list anymore :-)
Regards.
GM Francois PIETTE a écrit :
Seems the list is down !
36 hours without message is not normal.
Do you see my message ?
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GM
Hello,
Just a word to say I recently had that kind of 100% CPU problem in a
thread. I was starting a new project with different WSocket and as
always I prepare all the On events procedures I will need but I
forgot to put a ReceiveStr in the one of the OnDataAvailable so after
Hello Markus,
Why not .free the socket thru a message sent in .OnClose event ? This
is a better way than doing a sleep(x) that tends to defeat
asynchronous ICS model, you' better thing in term of events.
Also you could not free you TWSocket but re-use later as you maintain
a
Hello,
Think that ICS is fully asynchronous and event driven, it's a
different approach comparing to Indy or other Socket components and
also comparaing to RS232 programming where synchronous mode is usual.
With ICS (server or client mode) you can make or receive thousand of
Hello Markus,
Why do you use one thread per socket ? TSWocket is event driven so you
can connect to 500 servers if you want within same thread.
For polling messages, if you .mulithread:=true then the TWSocket will
create its own message queue.
HM Hello,
HM to the socket hanging on close.
HM
Hello Markus,
Seems you don't get the Event-driven way of programming, why a loop of
100ms that seems to do nothing with event it could receive ?
HM - output a debug message to eventlog
HM - socket.shutdown(1);
HM - output a 2nd message to eventlog
HM - do this:
HM t:=GetTickCount;
HM while
Hello Guillaume,
Until know what I use to do is to create a worker thread and send jobs
(with pointer to socket client object) and then worker send back a
message to socket thread with pointer of data to send back to client.
So all socket things is done from same thread.
Dettaching
Hello Francois,
Exactly what I do now, but what reference do you pass to thread ? At
beginning I did it with socket.handle (if I remember well by it was
long time ago) by I noticed that if during work job the socket is
closed and a new connexion come, then it could happend that this
Hello,
Is there a list of which properties and events are not inherited
from the ones set after .Create and which ones must be re-set again
after a socket close (for socket.connect I think it is just ip+port as
they are the only ones raising an error but I am not about other
questions):
FP You must re-assign Addr, Port and Protocol after the socket has been closed.
FP --
FP [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FP http://www.overbyte.be
FP - Original Message -
FP From: Dod [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FP To: ICS support mailing twsocket@elists.org
FP Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:08 PM
Hello Arno,
AG Choose more meaningfull names!!
Of course I use more meaningfull names in my real code :-) That was
just for sample.
AG TWSocketServer also has an event OnDataAvailable, but that has _nothing to
do
AG with the client object.
Yes, in fact this one is from TWSocket and is
Hello Guillaume,
of course change the WSocketServer I used (I just did a copy/paste
from one of my code).
GM Hi all,
GM is there a way when, on ThttpCli.OnSocketError is triggered, to know what
was the error ?
GM i mean is it an error from TCP/IP stack, a system error (like no handle,
etc...)
Hello,
Personnaly I like the actual Help and FAQ html documents available
from Overbyte's web site, they just need to be improved with some
missing methods/properties/events explanations and samples and could
be linked into single .CHM
Wiki has a big problem : you must be connected
Hello Surabaya,
if you send binary with LineMode there are many way to manage it.
The simplest : use BASE64 e-mail attachement style that is nice as
designed to work ascii lined mode but increase size of data about
+40% (as all binary e-mail attachements do by the way).
You could
Hello Paweł,
I cannot answer you question but... what happends if you simply send
your e-mail with outlook ? will it also be considered as spam ? If yes
then this is because of anti-spam filter at receiver part that is set
too high.
SPAM rules/filters are more and more restrictives following
Hello Wilfried,
But you also could create a delimiter #00#00 and search if exists in
you data, then try #00#01 ... then #00#02 and if you reach #FF#FF add
a third delimiter #00#00#00, #00#00#01, #00#00#02 ... until you
finally found a delimiter that do not exists.
Of course this is not a really
Hello,
I found an interesting article about high number of concurrent
connection on same server.
http://www.lenholgate.com/archives/000559.html
May be François can read it and find if could be usefull for ICS ?
Regards.
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Hello Francois,
Yes I use V6 for my new server project, I was not sure this article
was really usefull for ICS but just in case of ...
The guy that wrote the article also wrote some high performace C++
socket classes and wrote other interesting article in this web site.
In his article
Hello Francois,
OK now I am sure I did not missed some AddSocket method.
Of course I can create a pool of outgoing TWSocket and set them same
events as TWSocketServer Client events but as they should work exactly
same way once connection is done I thought that adding them to actual
Hello,
I am beginner in SSL, I never tried ICS SSL and don't know how it is
implemented and I have a question :
What do I need to do if I want to make an already existing LineMode
TWSocketServer/TWSocket project into SSL ? DO I need rewrite all
communication part of the project ? Is
Hello Francois,
OK, so SSL is just some kind underlaying the .Send or .SendStr before
really sending data and work transparent before passing it to
.ReceiveStr ?
FP There is not much change required. The component is the same, except a few
FP properties, events and methods required to
Hello Angus,
Can you explain why you need to so ? Why dup ? Just for me to
understand if you usage may be one I may need sometime.
Can I get the IP address of an incoming TCP/IP session
before accepting it, so I can ignore it?
You can't.
You have to accept the incomming connection, get
Hello,
About KeepAlive, here is what I found in a old TCP-IP NT5.0 white
paper from Microsoft.
TCP Keep-alive Messages
A TCP keep-alive packet is simply an ACK with the sequence number set
to one less than the current sequence number for the connection. A
host receiving one of
Hello Wilfried,
Here are some other infos that may help/explain
TcpMaxDataRetransmissions
Key: Tcpip\Parameters
Value Type: REG_DWORD-Number
Valid Range: 0-0x
Default: 5
Description: This parameter controls the number of times TCP will
retransmit an individual data segment
Hello iwsc,
Usually, file upload is a server side feature done thru binary HTTP
POST so if you can upload data with a POST, then ICS can do it.
Regards.
imc Hello
imc Is it possible to send a file from a windows machine from, lets say
d:/testfile.txt to a weblink (like
Hello,
On my Message Tickering server I also get nearly same performances (a
bit less because there is user/login request+ settings data sending
once logged in).
Regards.
FT Hello,
FT We have a beta reverse proxy that when measured with socrates can open
FT 450connections/s with IIS 5.1,
Hello,
I think you have a problem because it should not eat 100% CPU nor
freeze your system.
regards.
imc Hello
imc Is there a way to limit the cpu usage when receiving files thru TWsocket?
imc Usualy CPU is 90-100% used and the computer freezes for the time the
transfer is made.
imc Radu
Hello iwsc,
I don't think you'll bootleneck your hard drive with network data
transfert, unless you get many at same time on a Gigabyte LAN ?
imc Indeed the data transfered is continously transfered at high speed and it
is written directly to disk.
imc Which is the best method I could use to
Hello Larini,
You should do some ping from client up to your server just to see if
pings are also rather slow/unstable.
L Hi, I have problems in the following situation:
L My client send a message to server and wait a response from server.
L This operation takes about 50ms to 3 seconds using TCP
Hello,
I am actually doing some crash test on my server to handle as many
situations as possible.
I have a problem in a failed socket .Connect
I create a few sockets to .Connect them to some remote points. The
.Connect will excecute and fail because there is nothing listening on
Sunday, March 19, 2006, 19:03, Wilfried Mestdagh wrote:
Hello Dod,
In the SessionClosed I start a Timer that will send a message 20
second later to retry a .Connect, but this new try will only produce a
OnSessionConnected not followed by a SessionClosed, any idea why ?
I examined
Hello,
I don't know if it as something to do but if you use records
containing strings, always think to mystring:='' before releasing
record memory space because if you free the record, the string
allocation done inside will be kept.
regards.
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Hello Werner,
Sorry but your question is not clear, where is this tabbed data
located ? if it is on a web page then simply download the page and
read the tabs inside, ics will have nothing to do with this data
analyzing.
regards.
W Hi to all,
W Is it possible to make - access a table or
Hello,
I also think you should learn more what is a web server, statis and
dynamic web pages, server side scripting (PHP/ASP), so you may better
understand this technology and know if delpih/ics may be usefull to
you.
regards.
FT You just need an FTP client to upload your files to your ISP. You
Hello Frans,
I never used HTTP component (only basic WSocket) but may be you could
check if you are using HTTP 1.0 or 1.1 content data can be splitted in
multiple blocks when using HTTP 1.1. I don't know if it will help you,
this is a simple idea.
Regards.
Data := 'FirstName=' +
Hello David,
Don't know if they do authentication but I know two (freeware) local
SMTP relays used for people with a notebook that switch between ISP's
a lot.
Autoroute SMTP
MobileTCP
Regards.
DR Before I reinvent the wheel
DR I have a program here which sends email via SMTP but
Hello Jack,
I don't remember if 10053 is Connection refused but if it is, then
you may check for a firewall on the machine that block.
J I have a client software. On some of the PC, when the client
J is connected to the server and wants to send some data, a twsocket
J OnSessionClosed() event is
Hello Francois,
FP By the way, why are you still using Delphi 5 ? You should upgrade to Delphi
FP 2006 which is really worth an upgrade. Delphi 2006 is seriously better than
FP its predecessors and has significant enhancements.
I tested Delphi2006... near to 100MB RAM usage and 1024*768 is
Hello Wilfred,
Main question is why use threads ? ICS main advantage is to work in
non threaded model, just create 10, 20, 30 instances of THHPCli and
connect them :-)
WO Hello
WO I am new to ICS. I wish to use the HTTPCli component in a multithreaded
WO application to test the response from
Hello Shamresh,
Your question is out off topic, this is an Web browser problem,
IE/Mozilla/Opera or other real FTP client manage its own way of
displaying FTP datas, ICS has nothing to do with it and may have no
impact.
May be your browser analyse content of directory and if there
Seems I forgot to watch at TnScript such purpose, but I did not found
any sample I just find something in ICS FAQ...let see if it could
help.
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Hello Francois,
OK, I'll try to make a sample that read a POP3 inbox and say xxx
mail or no mail, of course POP3 ICS component do it better but that
will be just for example.
regards.
Seems I forgot to watch at TnScript such purpose, but I did not found
any sample I just find
Hello Angus,
It's OT for sure but ... so good :-)
regards.
ARMSL There was a new release of the Fastcode beta libraries in September 2006
ARMSL adding some new functions, which can be downloaded from (mind the word
ARMSL wrap):
ARMSL http://fastcode.sourceforge.net/FastcodeFileDownloads/
Hello,
32000 max, whenever you could theorically reach this limit (which is
most usure because of Windows/Winsock/Network card drivers
limitations), you could may be add an option to manage two network
cards, one for managing incoming sessions, other to manage outgoing
Hello Francois,
pfiouuu...that one took long time to fill ! :-(
FP The Delphi Survey for 2006
FP http://infopoll.net/live/surveys/s30110.htm
FP There are several places where you can plug ICS in the other selections.
FP Do it if you really use ICS for that purpose of course.
FP --
FP
Hello,
Personnaly I do my own buffer storage up to xxx lines and then parse
it backward when needed.
My buffering is started/stopped upon some triggers.
Regards.
I have a trigger event defined that executes a procedure.
TnScript1.AddEvent(1, '10.10.30.','',[efIgnorecase],
Hello Tobias,
Are you using ICS in sync or async mode ?
Do yo use same buffer and write-to-disk as Indy ?
Do you use multi-threading or not ?
Is it binary or text file (I guess it is text file as you said long
line in the subject ?
Regards.
TR I have a throughput/performance problem using
Hello Tobias,
Do you see any CPU overload server side during transfert ?
regards.
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Hello bevan,
Is it text file or binary file ?
If text file be sure to set binary mode, if not all #13#10 may be
converted into #10 if destination is Unix system so each text line
will loose 1 byte.
regards.
bacn Sorry, I sent my previous reply directly to you instead of to the list.
Hello,
Is it text file or binary file ?
If text file be sure to set binary mode, if not all #13#10 may be
converted into #10 if destination is Unix system so each text line
will loose 1 byte.
regards.
CR Using FtpTst demo, I upload a file from c:\dir, size 61,184. After upload,
CR
It is Unix. Is there a TFTPClient setting to fix this, or do I simply
CR convert #10s into #13#10s?
-Original Message-
From: Dod [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 04:02
To: ICS support mailing
Subject: Re: [twsocket] FTPClient Upload/download size incorrect?
Hello
Hello,
Just a word to tell a very bad thing that just happened to me (8 hours
work lost).
I use Delphi 7 under Vista ? Now I do nearly all my developments using
Vista machine to be sure they work as they should (I had too much
non-working or work-strange projects with this new OS).
Until
Hello,
It is easy to detect IE Proxy's settings and retrieve its IP:Port
values to put them into HTTPCli, but managing the options do no use
for local addresses and proxy exception's list to decide if HHTPCli
has to use proxy or not need a bit more development.
Can HTTPCli follow IE
Hello Maurizio,
OK thanks i'll look at it. My need is very basic as it is only to be
sure to download a file from specific URL, so no script envolved.
I think it can be done with regexp (or basic '*' masked string search
routine) on exception list, getting all IP attached to network card(s)
Hello Maurizio,
Yes, .pac proxy script may be more difficult to manage.
I could do pure Wininet async download so i'll be sure to follow the
right proxy settings but its hard to leave ICS once you tasted it ;-)
Next time i'll see Bill Gates, I'll ask him to implement some Wininet
IsLocalAddr
of
functions I was about to do myself that I found inside ICS.
regards.
AG Dod wrote:
Next time i'll see Bill Gates, I'll ask him to implement some Wininet
IsLocalAddr function !
AG Possibly usefull: ICS v6 function WSocket2IsAddrInSubNet in
OverbyteIcsWinsock2.pas?
AG --
AG Arno Garrels
Hello Arno,
Ouch...true ! I downloaded it 20 dec 2006 but forgot to install it !
regards.
AG Dod wrote:
Hello Arno,
I don't have OverbyteIcsWinsock2.pas unit in my ICS V6 installation...
AG Then you are using an old version. The unit also includes a function
AG to get systems interface
Hello Engi,
I think you must create one instance of TWSocketServer per port.
E Is a TWSocketServer can manage several port ?
E Engi
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Hello Arno,
Also avoid/minimize LIST command's use as much as possiblebetween
file's upload, this can take time especially if directory has many
files inside.
regards.
I've written a FTP-uploader without taking much care of speed issues.
It uploads 17000 files with total size of 830
Hello Francois,
I also found two or three white papers about it (and yours also), it
is very important to read them if people want to make their
application Vista compliant (and compatible).
It took me 3 months last year to understand thoses new features that
broke my applications.
Hello Hoby,
Try to run BDS EXE as admin, do it help ?
HS Great document! Thanks! Great timing for me, too. I have been working the
HS last several days on trying to come up to speed on some Vista development
HS issues and that was a great help.
HS BTW, since you brought it up... ;) Can I
Part 2.htm
What's in the Oven Leveraging Vista's UAC with Delphi Part 3.htm
HS Can you supply references to the white papers you mentioned?
HS -Original Message-
HS From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
HS Behalf Of Dod
HS Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:29 AM
HS
Now the home page show this (for non-french people this mean the Web
server is under Windows 2K and encoutered a problem after some
Microsoft update. Re-install is on the way, be patient :
Maintenance mode
Cette machine windows 2000 vient d'etre victime d'une mise a jour microsoft
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