Re: [WISPA] VOIP
Here is the part that really sucks I have an asterisk box setup, and five customers beta testing voip on my network. It works fine. Those five customers have used a grand total of 1003 minutes so far this month. My cost for termination minutes is .02 per minute, with a $5/month charge per DID line, so it cost me about $8/month to provide service for each of the beta customers. This is something I can sell for $25 to $30/month, and it is competitive with Packet8/Vonage/etc because the voice quality is superior (the SIP gateway is at the NOC, so no one is more than 40 ms away and I can control the network between them and the SIP box). Even if I get a bunch of people who use a lot more minutes, my average margin per customer would be in the $12 range. 50% margin? Yeah, I think that works for me. So far, LNP is not a big deal - it's pretty easy to get a toll-free line. But the 911 requirement is a problem. The whole PSAP setup where the local authorities get their 911 information is a joke. CLECs control access and can charge whatever they want - plus there is a charge for every communication center connection. I see two "out of the box" ways to deal with the 911 requirement. The first, is to have a wifi/gsm phone, and roaming agreements with GSM providers. Then , responsibility for the 911 call is shifted to the GSM provider. The second is to build some kind of Internet-enabled way of bypassing the PSAP system and delivering the information directly to the local communication center. It is too expensive for a smaller operator (or even a medium sized operator for that matter) to implement the traditional PSAP T1 connection method to get out to each comm center. Until that is resolved, there will only be big operators and little guys living under the radar, hoping that no one busts them for not being 911 compliant. Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'm just looking to offer customers an alternative to the phone line. That is, I'd like to give them an excuse to drop the Qwest copper line, keep phone service, and give me the money instead. And for those who live outside any other broadband, I can make a package deal that puts them right in there with what they'd get if the telco did move in... in other words, NO REASON TO LEAVE IN THE FUTURE. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP The margin in consumer VOIP is disappearing. The costs of the infrastructure including DIDs and 911 implementation have slammed the industry. Read Vonage's IPO to better understand the 911 liability and cost. In a couple of cases I have consulted on, the local CO was not accessible by any CLEC, so no LNP, so no one to outsource the VOIP to. BOCs have learned that most consumers switch to VOIP for cost savings, so have lowered their costs. Plus cableco's have gotten into the game (and can do 911) and bundle on one bill. You can try to do it yourself (and Asterisk is a GREAT tool for this), but if you aren't a CLEC, how do you handle 911 and LNP? Now if you wanted to sell Hosted PBX to Businesses, that's valuable. Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I don't understand your point about "selling on margins". I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than RETAIL. Nothing more, nothing less. I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail offerings. There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP service with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per customer. I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin. I just said I wanted something I could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs more than retail. If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange. As best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure. Nobody seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages, one would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe not. The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective to scale upwards, more so than customer service. -- WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations
. In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct multiple of its ARPU. Wrong. Thats old school. Evaluation is a direct multiple of the ARPU that the buyer can acheive because they bought your netowrk. Consider their new ability to gain revenue at a quicker rate, based on the unique benefit of combining the buyers and sellers assets. The way of increasing revenue is irrelevent. Consildation... Time to Market... illiminating a competitor allowing for higher prices, Throwing money and a marketing engine onto a network built out to serve that previously had little money to market its growth. Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the overall health of the bottom line. Yes but your example does not consider cost to obtain client, jsut to maintain. The benefit of residential is the higher rate to obtain subscribers, with less marketing, less salesmanship, less barriers, and lower standard of Quality for lower cost of more forgiving maintenance. So why is the differentiating factor that allows some WISPs to sell that Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection for $300+ month ARPU while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU? Market conditions and demand. IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... I'd argue market conditions is the biggest factor. So why spend the money on the higher price gear? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc - - -Charles -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
you jsut gotta pick your software well. OK. What do you pick, and why? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Jeromie Reeves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment Tom DeReggi wrote: No the problem with Mesh is it adds many hops to the path, therefore adding significant latency, and inability to control QOS, or identify where the QOS lies. Self interference is impossible to avoid without killing every other in town at the same time. QoS is easy with mesh, you jsut gotta pick your software well. Its very easy to identify where QoS is at. Self interferance is also very easy to avoid (no 400mw cards on 10db omnis ok? thats a no no) routing... Well that brings nother issues up. Adding complexity where it is not needed in many cases. There is reliabity added by doing it at layer2. Fewer compenent to fail and manage. There is a benefit to centralized management and configuration, when scaling large projects. When end users have routers at the DMarc, there is often little need to route, as the path is rarely peer to peer in nature, and all tend to follow the path to backbone. Not that I'm not saying Routing doesn;t have its importance to be implemented at the right strategic places. Its jsut not needed every hop along the path. There are automated routing tasks like RIP and OSPF, or simlar, but its awefully risky allowing route advertizing to the front edge of ones network, or the consumer radio to have the abilty to advertise routes. Layer2 virtual circuits and VPN, are also often adequate solution to solve problems of deployment. RIP is just plain evil to use unless its for a end use LAN only. OSPF only works for mesh when your urnning 3+ radios/node. There is nothing wrong with your client hardware helping with routes control the hardware>. Central control is nice and works well. So does micro managing when you do it in centralized way (central server, all nodes request updated info every X hours or its pushed when a change is made) The Super cell gives the ISP better central control and simplicity. Define better and what central/non centralized configuration setups you are comparing. Mesh has its purpose, but as a last resort in my opinion. When a Super cell is unable to reach the clientel. But I'd argue many samll repeater cells is a better way to go, so reliabilty and shortest path can be engineered into every site. When paths from point A to point B change automatically, its difficult to loose control of performance levels an individual may have at one point in time over another. QOS is near impossible to guarantee on MESH. I look at MESH as a Best effort service, and it should be deployed only when thatlevel of service isrequired. Reliability and QOS is all about creating shortest number of hops, with most direct solid links. Just my opinion. We'll see what the Muni Mesh network brings to the table after their many future case studies to come. Its the Mesh companies that are the ones pushing it,and in their eye. The reason has to do with assets not technology. Muni's don;t own the roof tops and towers. They own the street poles. Mesh works from the Street poles. MESH is a way to intiate a project, without third parties getting in the way. The Muni controls the assets required for the Technology to pull off its job. Its building management companies and owners that control the expansion of Broadband in the Super Cell. Muni has two choices... Go Mesh, or partner with the Local WISP, that already own the rights to the roof tops and spectrum, toguarantee quick progress. There are some exceptions to this, as many Muni's control water towers, if they are strategically located. Mesh also works from non pole setups. Muni pole setups should use multi radio overlapping stars for the mesh, not single radio mesh. Mesh can have QoS its not a open buffet. Anyone deploying in the ISM/UNII bands is a "best effort" service. 3650 and licensed is the way out of "best effort" land. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives the same functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are fine because that is what people have been building since forever. Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks. Is that the problem you see? Lonnie On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were a couple of years ago. Mesh and
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
MAtt, The Super cell gives the ISP better central control and simplicity. I don't believe an argument has been made to back up your above statement. Trie I did not offer any backup data. But use your immagination. Its all in one place, easy to check, easy to document, easy to configure, easy to backup, etc. What does mesh offer for better complete central management? > I think you may be mixing too many arguments. I may be mixing up typical deployment models using MESH with MESH Technology. It also depends on your definition of MESH. I admit, I made a generalization of a typical way MESH would be deployed, in my arguements. Deployed at street level, so many short hops were required to get coverage and get around NLOS obstacles, in a dense city environment. A network that made its own intelligent routing decissions, that may not always be the most intelligent compared to the human mind's decissions. We are using a fully meshed MPLS network for our fiber backbone. But is that really MESH? Technically you could call any multi-path routed network, MESH. I call my network a routed network using triangulation. But I would not call it MESH. But it very well could be considered similar to MESH. Our choice of a mesh architecture for our fiber backbone has nothing to do with client reachability, politics, vendor's opinions, or anything else outside of practical requirements. Our network devices can and do make routing decisions on the fly that result in better throughput, lower latency, and better QoS than traditional star and ring architectures can achieve. What criteria does your network OS sue to deterine routing changes? Measure highest packet loss? measure most amount of available bandwdith? Measure least amount of average bandwidth? Measure shortest path? Lowest latency? Lowest cost ($) transit or transport provider path? And how many can they consider togeather to make the best overall decission? I'd be interested in hearing more about what you are doing with MPLS in your design. Also understand this is a Wireless list, not a fiber list. The design flaws of MESH over fiber (fast packet-loss less links) is a completely different animal with different challenges than MESH in Wireless. I recognize that MESH is at a new stage of being more than just the implementation of RIP2. (Allthough early MESH was not much more than RIP). But I do not believe that computers make better decissions than engineers in all cases. I'm not convinced that has been accomplished yet. However, I'm open to being proven wrong. One of the reasons I am hesitant to MESH is that static data (non-MESH) is very easy to be managed by a Human, but its very difficult to manage dynamic data. Human mind can't make decissions on criteria it does not know about, because the known are not known. MESH takes away power from the engineer. Understand that every major ISP is now either running a fully meshed MPLS network or has plans to migrate to one. Thats a very bold statement, that is not true. However, that does not mean I do not recognize the benefits of the advanced design of MPLS networks. Muni has two choices... Go Mesh, or partner with the Local WISP, that already own the rights to the roof tops and spectrum, toguarantee quick progress. There are some exceptions to this, as many Muni's control water towers, if they are strategically located. I don't think Muni choices whatever they are should have anything to do with an technical discussion regarding the merits of mesh as a network architecture. How do you figure? I sure hope the network design that was getting proposed, was something they would take the time to evaluate, in making their decissions. Anyone would look at there assets to locate gear, and consider that into their design. Thats step 1 of any wireless network design. Tom DeReggi -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VOIP BOC?
I wonder what we should start calling the new telcos. There are 3 international companies that control nearly all of telcom today. Verizon/MCI, SBC that bought Cingular/ATT, and Sprint/Nextel. They aren't Bell Operating Companies. They are really big, mostly unchecked mega-telcos. RBMTs.. :-) Peter R. wrote: The margin in consumer VOIP is disappearing. The costs of the infrastructure including DIDs and 911 implementation have slammed the industry. Read Vonage's IPO to better understand the 911 liability and cost. In a couple of cases I have consulted on, the local CO was not accessible by any CLEC, so no LNP, so no one to outsource the VOIP to. BOCs have learned that most consumers switch to VOIP for cost savings, so have lowered their costs. Plus cableco's have gotten into the game (and can do 911) and bundle on one bill. You can try to do it yourself (and Asterisk is a GREAT tool for this), but if you aren't a CLEC, how do you handle 911 and LNP? Now if you wanted to sell Hosted PBX to Businesses, that's valuable. Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I don't understand your point about "selling on margins". I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than RETAIL. Nothing more, nothing less. I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail offerings. There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP service with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per customer. I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin. I just said I wanted something I could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs more than retail. If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange. As best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure. Nobody seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages, one would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe not. The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective to scale upwards, more so than customer service. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] DSL - NJ / PA Sprint / Verizon
contact the dsl loop provider. in some states, like CO, you need an ATM connection to the Qwest cloud, with specific ATM features - and then its pretty simple. you pay per loop, Qwest sends the ATM cells over to you on a specific virtual path (vpi,vci) -- you provide the IP services to the customer. You'll need to check for a wholesaler that has DSL loops available in the Central Offices serving the areas you are interested in. They'll tell you what deal they have. Occasionally (like with Qwest) you can sell your IP access over their ATM network, and/or you can sell their IP over the DSL. Things are changing rapidly however. Some LECs are pulling their DSL facilities out of wholesale, disallowing ISPs to use the DSL/copper. You've probably heard from the government - bigger is better, the LECs aren't monopolies, and if they are, its really a good thing. ;-) off my soap box now... Good luck. If you find a stable DSL provider, see if you can't use DSL loops (very cheap) to extend your APs to areas you might serve. Be advised there are several national DSL providers - most of which suck in my opinion, and you'll need to actually test the performance of their product. We've seen DSL sold to us as 1.5 megabit that rarely reached 768K and the jerks were charging a huge premium. If you need their name, contact me offline. My experience with Qwest has been surprisingly good, on the other hand. Rick Smith wrote: How does a WISP go about adding DSL resale to its list of services. I'd like to resell some DSL access to places we can't provide wireless. Need to deal with Sprint Local in Sussex / Warren Counties, VCerizon in Morris County, and Warwick Valley Telephone in upper Sussex County, NJ and Orange County, NY. If anyone has any contacts in Verizon for starters, please let me know how you got started reselling DSL... R -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] VOIP
I'm just looking to offer customers an alternative to the phone line. That is, I'd like to give them an excuse to drop the Qwest copper line, keep phone service, and give me the money instead. And for those who live outside any other broadband, I can make a package deal that puts them right in there with what they'd get if the telco did move in... in other words, NO REASON TO LEAVE IN THE FUTURE. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP > The margin in consumer VOIP is disappearing. The costs of the > infrastructure including DIDs and 911 implementation have slammed the > industry. Read Vonage's IPO to better understand the 911 liability and > cost. > > In a couple of cases I have consulted on, the local CO was not > accessible by any CLEC, so no LNP, so no one to outsource the VOIP to. > > BOCs have learned that most consumers switch to VOIP for cost savings, > so have lowered their costs. Plus cableco's have gotten into the game > (and can do 911) and bundle on one bill. > > You can try to do it yourself (and Asterisk is a GREAT tool for this), > but if you aren't a CLEC, how do you handle 911 and LNP? > > Now if you wanted to sell Hosted PBX to Businesses, that's valuable. > > Regards, > > Peter > RAD-INFO, Inc. > > Mark Koskenmaki wrote: > > >I don't understand your point about "selling on margins". > > > >I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than > >RETAIL. > > > >Nothing more, nothing less. > > > >I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are > >currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail > >offerings. > > > >There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP service > >with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per > >customer. > > > >I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin. I just said I wanted something I > >could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to > >get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs > >more than retail. > > > >If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange. As > >best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and > >customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing > >with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure. Nobody > >seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of > >ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages, one > >would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe > >not. The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective to > >scale upwards, more so than customer service. > > > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
Hey Roger, No, it's my blue tooth oh... that's what you meant ;-) Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadBand.com 314-974-5600 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger Boggs Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors The thing growing on the side of V''s head is caused by overuse of the cellular phone. Sue the cellular phone company. Everyone else in the civilized world should bring a class action suit against all television and radio transmitting staions, police departments, airports, airlines, phone companies, utility companies, and last/not least the Department of Defense for invading their personal spaces with omnidirectional kilowatt/megawatt transmissions of cancer inducing RF/Microwave signals. First, lets get rid of all doppler weather radars for all television stations. Next, lets ban the use of radar (weather and navigational) on every vessel operating on navigable waterways in the United States. Just to be sure, lets get those GPS satellites out of space, along with the Direct TV and Dish Network transmitters in space blanketing us with this evil cancer causing death ray... Just to be sure, we had better do away with other such evil-doers of the world such as Citizens Band Radio, 800MHz trunking radio, all cellular telephone services (digital and analog), 2-way pagers, 900M/2.4G/5.8G phones, wireless stereo speakers, baby monitors, wireless stereo headphones, I consider myself to have a little common sense. If I accept the theory that WiFi is a danger to the public health, then I have no other choice than to banish the FCC and make all RF transmission illegal. How much money would we get back on our taxes next year if the FCC were abolished and everyone in the FCC were laid off? At 08:29 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote: >Not going to allow it until "proven safe". > >Can we assume that all illegitemate drug use has been stopped? > >Underage alcohol consumption doesn't exist? > >Binge drinking has been halted? > >No "unsafe" sex occurs on campus or by students? > >No students speed, or drive unsafely? > >What a concept... Nothing allowed on campus unless PROVEN safe. Guess that >means the food service is halted indefinitely... :) > >No coffee, no pepsi, no Mt Dew, no RC cola... > >Just think of the upsides... No politicians on campus, either :) > >Sheesh... -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services--SomeObservations
- Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services--SomeObservations > > I desperately need a GOOD VOIP wholesale deal, where I own the customer and > do frontline support, it's my own brand (if I brand it) and I merely bulk > buy minutes, numbers, and CPE.I can't sell my customers a 400 minute > account that costs me 25 bucks a month. They can buy Packet8 for less than > most resell deals. > > > You're thinking like the "ISP techie" -- e.g., if I'm not better / cheaper / > faster...then I can't be in business > > Obviously, this isn't how things work Charles, you assume far too much. This is Mark The Businessman talking. You see, if I can't provide my customers good value for thier money, then I have no business taking thier money. It's how I sleep at night and it's my duty to my fellow man. Maybe some folks out there will rape the customer for all he can get from him... I cannot do so in good conscience. I do not have to be "cheaper". I have to provide the customer good value for his money.Darn, that's old fashioned. My God, it's moralistic. Heavens, it's totally out of fashion "loyalty to customers"... Whatever it is, that's how I do business, and if you're here to tell me "this isn't how things work" then don't waste your breath.I'm not looking to be the cheapest on earth. I am NOT the "cheapest" you can get for broadband where I am. But I am good value for the money. And that's what I want to offer for VOIP service, too. > > Case in point -- I know of a market that consists of 2 Canopy WISPs -- the > owners / principles of one come from a techie / residential ISP background, > and sell wireless broadband connections (various rates of 1 Mb, 2 Mb, 3 Mb > burstable connections) for $29-69 / month > > In the same market, the 2nd Canopy WISP has people who come from a carrier / > enterprise sales background, and they sell the EXACT SAME WIRELESS > CONNECTION (from a technological standpoint that is, it's still an > unlicensed Motorola SM / AP) for $300-600 / month > > Now, it is worth noting that the guys in WISP #2 are 100 lbs overweight, > have grey hair, and wear suits, while the guys in WISP #1 (although in their > late 20s now) -- still resemble adolescent college fraternity kids > > However, when they first hit the market, I was thinking, jeez, these guys > (WISP #2) are absolutely nuts, they're morons, trying to sell overpriced > @#$@ -- they'll never turn on a customer > > Yet consistently, I see guys from WISP #2 outsell guys from WISP #1 in > competitive deals (e.g., customer has a T1 line they're paying $500 / month > for, and WISP #1 comes in and tries to sell a 3 Mb connection for $69 -- > nothing happens -- 3 months later, WISP #2 comes in and sells a 3 Mb > "dedicated" connection for $600 / month to the same customer) > > Go figure... They say "There's a sucker born every minute". I will not take advantage of them. When I reach the end of my life it will not matter if I were rich or poor, only whether I can face my Maker with a clean conscience. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - > > -Charles > > > --- > WiNOG Austin, TX > March 13-15, 2006 > http://www.winog.com > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:09 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services > --SomeObservations > > > Quote: "> IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... " > > yes, it is. More to the point, it's about meeting your customer's needs or > wants. > > Not shoving things at them they don't need or want, but genuinely > discovering what it is that sparks them to buy in the first place. > > > > I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move > from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me > to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. > Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system > for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" programs. > > What I really need, then, is someone who does more of the backend stuff > (including providing e911) but does so in mass quantity, and doesn't > "touch" my customer. > > I've also found that pc service can be a good side venture, but I'm not > convinced that we can actually compete on price with the computer store. If > we're busy, it's better value for our time to install and support our own > services. > > Just random thoughts
Re: [WISPA] VOIP
The margin in consumer VOIP is disappearing. The costs of the infrastructure including DIDs and 911 implementation have slammed the industry. Read Vonage's IPO to better understand the 911 liability and cost. In a couple of cases I have consulted on, the local CO was not accessible by any CLEC, so no LNP, so no one to outsource the VOIP to. BOCs have learned that most consumers switch to VOIP for cost savings, so have lowered their costs. Plus cableco's have gotten into the game (and can do 911) and bundle on one bill. You can try to do it yourself (and Asterisk is a GREAT tool for this), but if you aren't a CLEC, how do you handle 911 and LNP? Now if you wanted to sell Hosted PBX to Businesses, that's valuable. Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I don't understand your point about "selling on margins". I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than RETAIL. Nothing more, nothing less. I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail offerings. There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP service with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per customer. I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin. I just said I wanted something I could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs more than retail. If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange. As best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure. Nobody seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages, one would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe not. The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective to scale upwards, more so than customer service. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] DSL - NJ / PA Sprint / Verizon
How does a WISP go about adding DSL resale to its list of services. I'd like to resell some DSL access to places we can't provide wireless. Need to deal with Sprint Local in Sussex / Warren Counties, VCerizon in Morris County, and Warwick Valley Telephone in upper Sussex County, NJ and Orange County, NY. If anyone has any contacts in Verizon for starters, please let me know how you got started reselling DSL... R -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
At 10:41 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote: Roger Boggs wrote: Ooops!!! How could I forget this one... Must make all amateur radio operations illegal and lock them all up and confiscate all their equipment!!! Either that or start suing all the ham radio operators for the suspected damage they've done to us all, too Don't get me started Boggs! :-) What Up Rog' ? Welcome back. Ya didn't miss anything.. Hope all is well. -B- - You should have told me not to get you started before I got you started, Bob... Nothing new here - still doing wireless stuff - just doing the RFID stuff and indoor wireless nowadays... Exactly the same, except totally different. Just as baffling and mysterious as RF ever was.. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts
Jory Privett wrote: I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract? If someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their contract? Any Ideas or suggestions? Jory Privett WCCS Collections usually works, but negotiating with the end user should be the first step. Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. There really is no in-between. I know a lot of people out there who are willing to pay $30+ / month for a VoIP handset (in fact, my office has 40 handsets, and we still pay an outsourced VoIP provider $30 / month FOR EVERY SINGLE HANDSET -- then we get charged per minute local / long-distance rates) Another example A good friend of mine runs a colocation company in the Equinix IBX -- he charges $50 / month per U of rack space IBM, in a cage less than 50' away from him, charges $1k / month per U for rack space IBM has more colo'd servers than my friend Maybe you just aren't selling properly? -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations Mark Koskenmaki wrote: >I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's >move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me >to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. >Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP >system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced >"wholesale" programs. > > > -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
I desperately need a GOOD VOIP wholesale deal, where I own the customer and do frontline support, it's my own brand (if I brand it) and I merely bulk buy minutes, numbers, and CPE.I can't sell my customers a 400 minute account that costs me 25 bucks a month. They can buy Packet8 for less than most resell deals. You're thinking like the "ISP techie" -- e.g., if I'm not better / cheaper / faster...then I can't be in business Obviously, this isn't how things work Case in point -- I know of a market that consists of 2 Canopy WISPs -- the owners / principles of one come from a techie / residential ISP background, and sell wireless broadband connections (various rates of 1 Mb, 2 Mb, 3 Mb burstable connections) for $29-69 / month In the same market, the 2nd Canopy WISP has people who come from a carrier / enterprise sales background, and they sell the EXACT SAME WIRELESS CONNECTION (from a technological standpoint that is, it's still an unlicensed Motorola SM / AP) for $300-600 / month Now, it is worth noting that the guys in WISP #2 are 100 lbs overweight, have grey hair, and wear suits, while the guys in WISP #1 (although in their late 20s now) -- still resemble adolescent college fraternity kids However, when they first hit the market, I was thinking, jeez, these guys (WISP #2) are absolutely nuts, they're morons, trying to sell overpriced @#$@ -- they'll never turn on a customer Yet consistently, I see guys from WISP #2 outsell guys from WISP #1 in competitive deals (e.g., customer has a T1 line they're paying $500 / month for, and WISP #1 comes in and tries to sell a 3 Mb connection for $69 -- nothing happens -- 3 months later, WISP #2 comes in and sells a 3 Mb "dedicated" connection for $600 / month to the same customer) Go figure... -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations Quote: "> IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... " yes, it is. More to the point, it's about meeting your customer's needs or wants. Not shoving things at them they don't need or want, but genuinely discovering what it is that sparks them to buy in the first place. I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" programs. What I really need, then, is someone who does more of the backend stuff (including providing e911) but does so in mass quantity, and doesn't "touch" my customer. I've also found that pc service can be a good side venture, but I'm not convinced that we can actually compete on price with the computer store. If we're busy, it's better value for our time to install and support our own services. Just random thoughts on the topic... North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:45 PM Subject: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations > Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of "what's > the best radio" or "who's got those cool blue lights" -- however, > FWIW, I've > noticed that there seldom is any debate on "useful" topics like sales > & marketing (especially of the product positioning of license-exempt wireless) > > Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But fuel > the fire with a few observations > > - > > - > > ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User. This is the > average revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged > the same price > -- with some customers charged less and others more. Customer type usually > determines price. In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a > direct multiple of its ARPU. > > The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level / > Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following license-exempt > broadband wireless "WiMAX" connections have been calculated as > follows: > > Broadband "Lite" Residential Service > (512 / 512 Kb Burstable) > MRR: $24.95 > MRC: $20 > > Best Effort Residential Service > (5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable) > MRR: $39
RE: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --Some Observations
Generally speaking, we have found the cost/time to sell a customer is the same no matter how large the service delivered is. In other words, it takes just as long to sell a "DS3" as it does a "T1" even though the "DS3" is significantly more profitable. Hi Matt, I would disagree with you on the above statement IMO, I've found that the SMB service offering (e.g., sub-T1 to 3xT1) plans seem to be the most profitable (highest margin) opportunities available Once you get to "carrier services" (e.g., 10+ Mb) -- the big guys start to take notice and completely drop their pants -Charles --- WiNOG Austin, TX March 13-15, 2006 http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --Some Observations We have observed the following: It is easier to explain wireless after the fact then to sell wireless itself. In other words, we sell a service that provides X amount of internet access and Y phone lines that we just happen to deliver wirelessly. Once a customer is "sold" on the value of the service it is easy to explain the benefits of fixed wireless over copper. Our "T1" price is lower than the rest of the market, but it is easier and more profitable to sell 3Mbps at the market price of a T1 then to sell our lower priced "T1" service. All of the above means that while we are a seemingly large WISP, we don't have that many customers; our ARPU is just very high. -Matt Charles Wu wrote: >Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of >"what's the best radio" or "who's got those cool blue lights" -- >however, FWIW, I've noticed that there seldom is any debate on "useful" >topics like sales & marketing (especially of the product positioning of >license-exempt wireless) > >Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But >fuel the fire with a few observations > >- > >- > >ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User. This is the >average revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged >the same price >-- with some customers charged less and others more. Customer type usually >determines price. In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct >multiple of its ARPU. > >The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level / >Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following >license-exempt broadband wireless "WiMAX" connections have been >calculated as follows: > >Broadband "Lite" Residential Service >(512 / 512 Kb Burstable) >MRR: $24.95 >MRC: $20 > >Best Effort Residential Service >(5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable) >MRR: $39.95 >MRC: $20 > >Best Effort Business Class Service >(5 Mb / 1 Mb Burstable) >MRR: $149.95 >MRC: $25 > >Dedicated Business Class Service >(5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) >(1 Mb / 1 Mb Dedicated) >MRR: $249.95 >MRC: $30 > >Dedicated Business SLA Service >(5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) >(3 Mb / 3 Mb Dedicated) >MRR: $449.95 >MRC: $40 > >Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the >overall health of the bottom line. > >Interestingly enough, all the following service plans are achieved >using the EXACT SAME license-exempt broadband wireless access >technology. So why is the differentiating factor that allows some >WISPs to sell that Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection >for $300+ month ARPU while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU? > >IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... > >- > >- > >-Charles > >-- >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
Roger Boggs wrote: Ooops!!! How could I forget this one... Must make all amateur radio operations illegal and lock them all up and confiscate all their equipment!!! Either that or start suing all the ham radio operators for the suspected damage they've done to us all, too Don't get me started Boggs! :-) What Up Rog' ? Welcome back. Ya didn't miss anything.. Hope all is well. -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
You could have blamed it on the dog, and nobody would have known the difference, Cliff... At 10:29 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote: Roger, That wasn't CO2 that passes by you...It was methane! :-) Oops... - Cliff -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
Roger, That wasn't CO2 that passes by you...It was methane! :-) Oops... - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger Boggs Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors You can breathe all you want to, as long as you don't get all that second hand carbon dioxide on me... And I just saw some of that CO2 pass by me a minute ago!! I'm gonna trap some of it in a bottle and if it matches the CO2 that came out of you, you're buzzard meat buddy Just like the RF that came in my hotel window a minutes ago without my contractually granted permission... At 10:20 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote: >Yea...and another thing that causes death...Breathing! > >If you do it long enough, eventually you will die. >I guess I should ban breathing too! > >:-) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
You can breathe all you want to, as long as you don't get all that second hand carbon dioxide on me... And I just saw some of that CO2 pass by me a minute ago!! I'm gonna trap some of it in a bottle and if it matches the CO2 that came out of you, you're buzzard meat buddy Just like the RF that came in my hotel window a minutes ago without my contractually granted permission... At 10:20 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote: Yea...and another thing that causes death...Breathing! If you do it long enough, eventually you will die. I guess I should ban breathing too! :-) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
Ooops!!! How could I forget this one... Must make all amateur radio operations illegal and lock them all up and confiscate all their equipment!!! Either that or start suing all the ham radio operators for the suspected damage they've done to us all, too At 10:11 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote: The thing growing on the side of V''s head is caused by overuse of the cellular phone. Sue the cellular phone company. Everyone else in the civilized world should bring a class action suit against all television and radio transmitting staions, police departments, airports, airlines, phone companies, utility companies, and last/not least the Department of Defense for invading their personal spaces with omnidirectional kilowatt/megawatt transmissions of cancer inducing RF/Microwave signals. First, lets get rid of all doppler weather radars for all television stations. Next, lets ban the use of radar (weather and navigational) on every vessel operating on navigable waterways in the United States. Just to be sure, lets get those GPS satellites out of space, along with the Direct TV and Dish Network transmitters in space blanketing us with this evil cancer causing death ray... Just to be sure, we had better do away with other such evil-doers of the world such as Citizens Band Radio, 800MHz trunking radio, all cellular telephone services (digital and analog), 2-way pagers, 900M/2.4G/5.8G phones, wireless stereo speakers, baby monitors, wireless stereo headphones, I consider myself to have a little common sense. If I accept the theory that WiFi is a danger to the public health, then I have no other choice than to banish the FCC and make all RF transmission illegal. How much money would we get back on our taxes next year if the FCC were abolished and everyone in the FCC were laid off? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
Yea...and another thing that causes death...Breathing! If you do it long enough, eventually you will die. I guess I should ban breathing too! :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roger Boggs Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors The thing growing on the side of V''s head is caused by overuse of the cellular phone. Sue the cellular phone company. Everyone else in the civilized world should bring a class action suit against all television and radio transmitting staions, police departments, airports, airlines, phone companies, utility companies, and last/not least the Department of Defense for invading their personal spaces with omnidirectional kilowatt/megawatt transmissions of cancer inducing RF/Microwave signals. First, lets get rid of all doppler weather radars for all television stations. Next, lets ban the use of radar (weather and navigational) on every vessel operating on navigable waterways in the United States. Just to be sure, lets get those GPS satellites out of space, along with the Direct TV and Dish Network transmitters in space blanketing us with this evil cancer causing death ray... Just to be sure, we had better do away with other such evil-doers of the world such as Citizens Band Radio, 800MHz trunking radio, all cellular telephone services (digital and analog), 2-way pagers, 900M/2.4G/5.8G phones, wireless stereo speakers, baby monitors, wireless stereo headphones, I consider myself to have a little common sense. If I accept the theory that WiFi is a danger to the public health, then I have no other choice than to banish the FCC and make all RF transmission illegal. How much money would we get back on our taxes next year if the FCC were abolished and everyone in the FCC were laid off? At 08:29 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote: >Not going to allow it until "proven safe". > >Can we assume that all illegitemate drug use has been stopped? > >Underage alcohol consumption doesn't exist? > >Binge drinking has been halted? > >No "unsafe" sex occurs on campus or by students? > >No students speed, or drive unsafely? > >What a concept... Nothing allowed on campus unless PROVEN safe. Guess that >means the food service is halted indefinitely... :) > >No coffee, no pepsi, no Mt Dew, no RC cola... > >Just think of the upsides... No politicians on campus, either :) > >Sheesh... -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks
Thanks Tom - and all others. Good to hear from all the old names/faces. I've learned more about copper cable crimpers here in the last two days than I have from any other wireLESS list I've been on in the last two years! :-) At 11:22 AM 2/23/2006, you wrote: Its always good to hear a chime in from one of the original early guys in the game, now and then. Lots of stuff happening here in WISP land. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
The thing growing on the side of V''s head is caused by overuse of the cellular phone. Sue the cellular phone company. Everyone else in the civilized world should bring a class action suit against all television and radio transmitting staions, police departments, airports, airlines, phone companies, utility companies, and last/not least the Department of Defense for invading their personal spaces with omnidirectional kilowatt/megawatt transmissions of cancer inducing RF/Microwave signals. First, lets get rid of all doppler weather radars for all television stations. Next, lets ban the use of radar (weather and navigational) on every vessel operating on navigable waterways in the United States. Just to be sure, lets get those GPS satellites out of space, along with the Direct TV and Dish Network transmitters in space blanketing us with this evil cancer causing death ray... Just to be sure, we had better do away with other such evil-doers of the world such as Citizens Band Radio, 800MHz trunking radio, all cellular telephone services (digital and analog), 2-way pagers, 900M/2.4G/5.8G phones, wireless stereo speakers, baby monitors, wireless stereo headphones, I consider myself to have a little common sense. If I accept the theory that WiFi is a danger to the public health, then I have no other choice than to banish the FCC and make all RF transmission illegal. How much money would we get back on our taxes next year if the FCC were abolished and everyone in the FCC were laid off? At 08:29 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote: Not going to allow it until "proven safe". Can we assume that all illegitemate drug use has been stopped? Underage alcohol consumption doesn't exist? Binge drinking has been halted? No "unsafe" sex occurs on campus or by students? No students speed, or drive unsafely? What a concept... Nothing allowed on campus unless PROVEN safe. Guess that means the food service is halted indefinitely... :) No coffee, no pepsi, no Mt Dew, no RC cola... Just think of the upsides... No politicians on campus, either :) Sheesh... -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
What makes you think there's any margin selling retail? Figure out what you're doing or accept what's handed to you. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I don't understand your point about "selling on margins". I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than RETAIL. Nothing more, nothing less. I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail offerings. There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP service with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per customer. I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin. I just said I wanted something I could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs more than retail. If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange. As best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure. Nobody seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages, one would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe not. The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective to scale upwards, more so than customer service. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "warped.terranova.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations "they want their cake and eat it too".. exactly. Either run your own Asterisk server with PSTN gateway or figure out how to sell on margins and stop whining. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" programs. Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. There really is no in-between. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts
FYI Kurt, your computer appears to be set at the wrong time and date. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Judge Judy Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff Leboeuf Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts Jory, To me, it depends on a few things... 1. Do you have a written contract that has a term commitment and the cancellation fees clearly stated? 2. If you do, is it amount worth pursuing for collections based on the risk, money and time you will spend? 3. If you do pursue, and win, is the customer capable of paying the judgment? I have been successful in enforcing a number of my contracts through small claims court. - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jory Privett Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract? If someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their contract? Any Ideas or suggestions? Jory Privett WCCS -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 "Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
Not going to allow it until "proven safe". Can we assume that all illegitemate drug use has been stopped? Underage alcohol consumption doesn't exist? Binge drinking has been halted? No "unsafe" sex occurs on campus or by students? No students speed, or drive unsafely? What a concept... Nothing allowed on campus unless PROVEN safe. Guess that means the food service is halted indefinitely... :) No coffee, no pepsi, no Mt Dew, no RC cola... Just think of the upsides... No politicians on campus, either :) Sheesh... North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors > Prudent Avoidance (playing it safe) ??? > > Owww, owww stop hitting me :) > > > Take care Victoria (long-time, no see - I was glad to hear that you're > doing OK). > > Best wishes, > jack > > > Victoria wrote: > > A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks. > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/ > > > > Victoria Proffer > > www.StLouisBroadBand.com > > 314-974-5600 > > > > -- > Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. > Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 > Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" > True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting > Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com > > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
I don't understand your point about "selling on margins". I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than RETAIL. Nothing more, nothing less. I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail offerings. There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP service with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per customer. I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin. I just said I wanted something I could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs more than retail. If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange. As best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure. Nobody seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages, one would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe not. The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective to scale upwards, more so than customer service. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "warped.terranova.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations > "they want their cake and eat it too".. exactly. Either run your own > Asterisk server with PSTN gateway or figure out how to sell on margins and > stop whining. > > > Mark Koskenmaki wrote: > > > >> I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move > >> from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable > >> for me > >> to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. > >> Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP > >> system > >> for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" > >> programs. > >> > >> > >> > > Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want > > because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale > > our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. > > Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying > > on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in > > volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. > > There really is no in-between. > > > > -Matt > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
I'll take a tumor and wireless over no tumor and no wireless. Victoria wrote: I have been wondering about that thing growing on the side of my head, or it is just the bumps that I have gotten since I have been into wireless? Nice to see you too Jack. Climb any mountains lately? :-) Victoria -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 6:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors Prudent Avoidance (playing it safe) ??? Owww, owww stop hitting me :) Take care Victoria (long-time, no see - I was glad to hear that you're doing OK). Best wishes, jack Victoria wrote: A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/ Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadBand.com 314-974-5600 -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 "Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
I have been wondering about that thing growing on the side of my head, or it is just the bumps that I have gotten since I have been into wireless? Nice to see you too Jack. Climb any mountains lately? :-) Victoria -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 6:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors Prudent Avoidance (playing it safe) ??? Owww, owww stop hitting me :) Take care Victoria (long-time, no see - I was glad to hear that you're doing OK). Best wishes, jack Victoria wrote: > A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks. > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/ > > Victoria Proffer > www.StLouisBroadBand.com > 314-974-5600 > -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
Prudent Avoidance (playing it safe) ??? Owww, owww stop hitting me :) Take care Victoria (long-time, no see - I was glad to hear that you're doing OK). Best wishes, jack Victoria wrote: A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/ Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadBand.com 314-974-5600 -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
VoIP is the future and while it is currently profitable, I don't think it will be long-term. I expect long-term telephone service as we know it will be free. In the mean time, VoIP sells data better than almost anything else. -Matt Mark Koskenmaki wrote: If that's the case, then VOIP has no future. If there's no profit to be made in it, then what's everyone jumping on it for? North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" programs. Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. There really is no in-between. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
...or, with cordless phones, wireless RF remote controls, lightening storms, nearby radio towers for fire, police, sheriff, Royal Mounties, etc. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bobby Jacqmin Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 6:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors So I would guess that all the companies that have in house labs for beta testing are all goners. They are always trying to find a way to keep the wireless broadband business down. I would like to see a proven case study on the size of the brain tumor does it get larger with 2.4 or 5.8. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victoria Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:56 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/ Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadBand.com 314-974-5600 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
So I would guess that all the companies that have in house labs for beta testing are all goners. They are always trying to find a way to keep the wireless broadband business down. I would like to see a proven case study on the size of the brain tumor does it get larger with 2.4 or 5.8. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victoria Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:56 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/ Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadBand.com 314-974-5600 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors
A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/ Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadBand.com 314-974-5600 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations
"they want their cake and eat it too".. exactly. Either run your own Asterisk server with PSTN gateway or figure out how to sell on margins and stop whining. Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" programs. Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. There really is no in-between. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations
If that's the case, then VOIP has no future. If there's no profit to be made in it, then what's everyone jumping on it for? North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations > Mark Koskenmaki wrote: > > >I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move > >from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me > >to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. > >Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system > >for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" programs. > > > > > > > Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want > because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale > our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. > Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying > on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in > volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. > There really is no in-between. > > -Matt > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
No, but I posted a link to the manuals on the Support Forums. We use OLSR and you can get the manuals, etc yourself. http://www.olsr.org/ What specs do you need? This auto routes and is not limited to 2 layer like OSPF. Lonnie On 2/23/06, Mario Pommier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > good deal! > do you have info on the tech specs of the system in the website? > thanks. > > Mario > > > Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: > We released the code yesterday as part of our v3 for the WAR boards. The > beta part is mostly for the Atheros driver which continues to get tweaks and > add-ons. We have been testing and playing with mesh since Fall 2005. We > felt it was ready for prime time. Lonnie On 2/23/06, Mario Pommier > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Lonnie, when will your radios support mesh, as described in your previous > post? M Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: I guess you'll have to learn more about > Mesh because if you did you > would > not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives > the same > functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are > fine because that > is what people have been building since forever. > Mesh handles routing > issues and requires routed networks. Is that the > problem you > see? > Lonnie On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were a > couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the > same > sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 > month > stage.. Having said that, you can still give them the same > functionality. > Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy, > Alvarion, pick > your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi > deployments > that are down at street level. Same functionality, greater > flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I > believe, much better > stability. > That help? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 > (Vonage) Consulting services > 42846865 (icq) And I run my own > wisp! > 64.146.146.12 (net > meeting) > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - > Original Message - > From: ISPlists To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; > 'WISPA General List' > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: > [WISPA] Mesh Equipment > Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh > equipment. I have a > small town that wants to provide Internet access to the > entire town and I'm > thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be > great. > Thanks, Steve -- WISPA > Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: > http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- WISPA > Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: > http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ > -- WISPA Wireless List: > wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: > http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations
Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" programs. Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. There really is no in-between. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wisp In Killington VT?
Title: Message East Coast Snow =( Go Rockies -- east coast is WAY too icy -Charles ---WiNOG Austin, TXMarch 13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of G.VillariniSent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 4:52 PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: [WISPA] Wisp In Killington VT? Hey folks, I up in Killington VT doing some skiying… Who the wisp servicing the area with Trango stuff? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations
Quote: "> IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... " yes, it is. More to the point, it's about meeting your customer's needs or wants. Not shoving things at them they don't need or want, but genuinely discovering what it is that sparks them to buy in the first place. I desperately need a GOOD VOIP wholesale deal, where I own the customer and do frontline support, it's my own brand (if I brand it) and I merely bulk buy minutes, numbers, and CPE.I can't sell my customers a 400 minute account that costs me 25 bucks a month. They can buy Packet8 for less than most resell deals. I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me to do. Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find. Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" programs. What I really need, then, is someone who does more of the backend stuff (including providing e911) but does so in mass quantity, and doesn't "touch" my customer. I've also found that pc service can be a good side venture, but I'm not convinced that we can actually compete on price with the computer store. If we're busy, it's better value for our time to install and support our own services. Just random thoughts on the topic... North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:45 PM Subject: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations > Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of "what's > the best radio" or "who's got those cool blue lights" -- however, FWIW, I've > noticed that there seldom is any debate on "useful" topics like sales & > marketing (especially of the product positioning of license-exempt wireless) > > Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But fuel > the fire with a few observations > > - > > - > > ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User. This is the average > revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged the same price > -- with some customers charged less and others more. Customer type usually > determines price. In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct > multiple of its ARPU. > > The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level / > Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following license-exempt > broadband wireless "WiMAX" connections have been calculated as follows: > > Broadband "Lite" Residential Service > (512 / 512 Kb Burstable) > MRR: $24.95 > MRC: $20 > > Best Effort Residential Service > (5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable) > MRR: $39.95 > MRC: $20 > > Best Effort Business Class Service > (5 Mb / 1 Mb Burstable) > MRR: $149.95 > MRC: $25 > > Dedicated Business Class Service > (5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) > (1 Mb / 1 Mb Dedicated) > MRR: $249.95 > MRC: $30 > > Dedicated Business SLA Service > (5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) > (3 Mb / 3 Mb Dedicated) > MRR: $449.95 > MRC: $40 > > Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the > overall health of the bottom line. > > Interestingly enough, all the following service plans are achieved using the > EXACT SAME license-exempt broadband wireless access technology. So why is > the differentiating factor that allows some WISPs to sell that > Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection for $300+ month ARPU > while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU? > > IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... > > - > > - > > -Charles > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- Some Observations
We have observed the following: It is easier to explain wireless after the fact then to sell wireless itself. In other words, we sell a service that provides X amount of internet access and Y phone lines that we just happen to deliver wirelessly. Once a customer is "sold" on the value of the service it is easy to explain the benefits of fixed wireless over copper. Our "T1" price is lower than the rest of the market, but it is easier and more profitable to sell 3Mbps at the market price of a T1 then to sell our lower priced "T1" service. Generally speaking, we have found the cost/time to sell a customer is the same no matter how large the service delivered is. In other words, it takes just as long to sell a "DS3" as it does a "T1" even though the "DS3" is significantly more profitable. All of the above means that while we are a seemingly large WISP, we don't have that many customers; our ARPU is just very high. -Matt Charles Wu wrote: Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of "what's the best radio" or "who's got those cool blue lights" -- however, FWIW, I've noticed that there seldom is any debate on "useful" topics like sales & marketing (especially of the product positioning of license-exempt wireless) Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But fuel the fire with a few observations - - ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User. This is the average revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged the same price -- with some customers charged less and others more. Customer type usually determines price. In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct multiple of its ARPU. The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level / Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following license-exempt broadband wireless "WiMAX" connections have been calculated as follows: Broadband "Lite" Residential Service (512 / 512 Kb Burstable) MRR: $24.95 MRC: $20 Best Effort Residential Service (5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable) MRR: $39.95 MRC: $20 Best Effort Business Class Service (5 Mb / 1 Mb Burstable) MRR: $149.95 MRC: $25 Dedicated Business Class Service (5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) (1 Mb / 1 Mb Dedicated) MRR: $249.95 MRC: $30 Dedicated Business SLA Service (5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) (3 Mb / 3 Mb Dedicated) MRR: $449.95 MRC: $40 Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the overall health of the bottom line. Interestingly enough, all the following service plans are achieved using the EXACT SAME license-exempt broadband wireless access technology. So why is the differentiating factor that allows some WISPs to sell that Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection for $300+ month ARPU while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU? IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... - - -Charles -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Wisp In Killington VT?
Hey folks, I up in Killington VT doing some skiying… Who the wisp servicing the area with Trango stuff? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.273.4143 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- Some Observations
Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of "what's the best radio" or "who's got those cool blue lights" -- however, FWIW, I've noticed that there seldom is any debate on "useful" topics like sales & marketing (especially of the product positioning of license-exempt wireless) Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But fuel the fire with a few observations - - ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User. This is the average revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged the same price -- with some customers charged less and others more. Customer type usually determines price. In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct multiple of its ARPU. The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level / Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following license-exempt broadband wireless "WiMAX" connections have been calculated as follows: Broadband "Lite" Residential Service (512 / 512 Kb Burstable) MRR: $24.95 MRC: $20 Best Effort Residential Service (5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable) MRR: $39.95 MRC: $20 Best Effort Business Class Service (5 Mb / 1 Mb Burstable) MRR: $149.95 MRC: $25 Dedicated Business Class Service (5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) (1 Mb / 1 Mb Dedicated) MRR: $249.95 MRC: $30 Dedicated Business SLA Service (5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) (3 Mb / 3 Mb Dedicated) MRR: $449.95 MRC: $40 Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the overall health of the bottom line. Interestingly enough, all the following service plans are achieved using the EXACT SAME license-exempt broadband wireless access technology. So why is the differentiating factor that allows some WISPs to sell that Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection for $300+ month ARPU while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU? IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... - - -Charles -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Waverider Specs
We are testing a new WR cell. The target rssi generated by the design guide and real field tests show 10-12 db performance delta. Anyone care to weigh in on this? Is this reality- the difference between vendor spec and real world tests or should we look deeper for a problem? We've already worked through most of the cabling and the grounds. That brings up a 2nd question- If an antenna is grounded to a tower, the cabling grounded separately prior to building penetration and the equipment grounded to house power - does this set up a potential between the 3 different grounding sources? We pulled the cable ground on our last new cell and the cell performance jumped noticeably. Thanks Chris Cooper Intelliwave -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Canopy distributors
We continually find ourselves having to call around the country trying to find inventory. We'd prefer just to have a single distributor fulfill all our orders, but we expect the equipment to be stocked. It seems to me distributors don't provide any value if all they do is process orders and drop ship the equipment. Any recommendations from the list for Canopy distributors? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts
We have a contract, and it serves a rather limited role. Since we have only one option that requires a time commitment and that one is short, our contract only serves the following purposes: Agreement on the customer's part not to abuse the network (and leaves the definition of abuse to us) and limitation of data transfers per account. It details what people paid for, so they're clear on this, and then allows us to do some enforcement of our terms of use. We've never had to enforce a single thing. Someday we might. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot netsales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot netFast Internet, NO WIRES!- - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts Is this a residential customer ? Is it worth the bad advertising on your part to pursue it ? What were their reasons for cancelling ? We don't even have a contract in place any longer. We have a TOS and an acceptable use policy in place but no need to waste our time with the extra paperwork for useless contracts.If you provide a high level of service and treat your customers right, why would they leave ? If it's for price - tell them good luck - Chances are they will be back if they are "service" oriented and not "price" driven.JohnnyOOn Thu, 2006-02-23 at 11:41 -0600, Jory Privett wrote: I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract? If someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their contract? Any Ideas or suggestions? Jory Privett WCCS -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts
Hey Kurt - Fix your date and time - Several people have mentioned this already. Be a considerate list participant. JohnnyO On Sat, 2006-02-25 at 13:38 -0800, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Judge Judy Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Cliff Leboeuf Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts Jory, To me, it depends on a few things... 1. Do you have a written contract that has a term commitment and the cancellation fees clearly stated? 2. If you do, is it amount worth pursuing for collections based on the risk, money and time you will spend? 3. If you do pursue, and win, is the customer capable of paying the judgment? I have been successful in enforcing a number of my contracts through small claims court. - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jory Privett Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract? If someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their contract? Any Ideas or suggestions? Jory Privett WCCS -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/267 - Release Date: 2/22/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
Tom DeReggi wrote: No the problem with Mesh is it adds many hops to the path, therefore adding significant latency, and inability to control QOS, or identify where the QOS lies. Self interference is impossible to avoid without killing every other in town at the same time. QoS is easy with mesh, you jsut gotta pick your software well. Its very easy to identify where QoS is at. Self interferance is also very easy to avoid (no 400mw cards on 10db omnis ok? thats a no no) routing... Well that brings nother issues up. Adding complexity where it is not needed in many cases. There is reliabity added by doing it at layer2. Fewer compenent to fail and manage. There is a benefit to centralized management and configuration, when scaling large projects. When end users have routers at the DMarc, there is often little need to route, as the path is rarely peer to peer in nature, and all tend to follow the path to backbone. Not that I'm not saying Routing doesn;t have its importance to be implemented at the right strategic places. Its jsut not needed every hop along the path. There are automated routing tasks like RIP and OSPF, or simlar, but its awefully risky allowing route advertizing to the front edge of ones network, or the consumer radio to have the abilty to advertise routes. Layer2 virtual circuits and VPN, are also often adequate solution to solve problems of deployment. RIP is just plain evil to use unless its for a end use LAN only. OSPF only works for mesh when your urnning 3+ radios/node. There is nothing wrong with your client hardware helping with routes control the hardware>. Central control is nice and works well. So does micro managing when you do it in centralized way (central server, all nodes request updated info every X hours or its pushed when a change is made) The Super cell gives the ISP better central control and simplicity. Define better and what central/non centralized configuration setups you are comparing. Mesh has its purpose, but as a last resort in my opinion. When a Super cell is unable to reach the clientel. But I'd argue many samll repeater cells is a better way to go, so reliabilty and shortest path can be engineered into every site. When paths from point A to point B change automatically, its difficult to loose control of performance levels an individual may have at one point in time over another. QOS is near impossible to guarantee on MESH. I look at MESH as a Best effort service, and it should be deployed only when thatlevel of service isrequired. Reliability and QOS is all about creating shortest number of hops, with most direct solid links. Just my opinion. We'll see what the Muni Mesh network brings to the table after their many future case studies to come. Its the Mesh companies that are the ones pushing it,and in their eye. The reason has to do with assets not technology. Muni's don;t own the roof tops and towers. They own the street poles. Mesh works from the Street poles. MESH is a way to intiate a project, without third parties getting in the way. The Muni controls the assets required for the Technology to pull off its job. Its building management companies and owners that control the expansion of Broadband in the Super Cell. Muni has two choices... Go Mesh, or partner with the Local WISP, that already own the rights to the roof tops and spectrum, toguarantee quick progress. There are some exceptions to this, as many Muni's control water towers, if they are strategically located. Mesh also works from non pole setups. Muni pole setups should use multi radio overlapping stars for the mesh, not single radio mesh. Mesh can have QoS its not a open buffet. Anyone deploying in the ISM/UNII bands is a "best effort" service. 3650 and licensed is the way out of "best effort" land. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives the same functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are fine because that is what people have been building since forever. Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks. Is that the problem you see? Lonnie On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were a couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month stage.. Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality. Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi dep
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
good deal! do you have info on the tech specs of the system in the website? thanks. Mario Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: We released the code yesterday as part of our v3 for the WAR boards. The beta part is mostly for the Atheros driver which continues to get tweaks and add-ons. We have been testing and playing with mesh since Fall 2005. We felt it was ready for prime time. Lonnie On 2/23/06, Mario Pommier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Lonnie, when will your radios support mesh, as described in your previous post? M Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives the same functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are fine because that is what people have been building since forever. Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks. Is that the problem you see? Lonnie On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were a couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month stage.. Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality. Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi deployments that are down at street level. Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I believe, much better stability. That help? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: ISPlists To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List' Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment. I have a small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and I'm thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be great. Thanks, Steve -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
Tom DeReggi wrote: No the problem with Mesh is it adds many hops to the path, therefore adding significant latency, and inability to control QOS, or identify where the QOS lies. Self interference is impossible to avoid without killing every other in town at the same time. Mesh doesn't have to add hops where they aren't needed or wanted. Further, there is no inherent added latency for a mesh network. Certainly hops and TDM add latency, but that is the case with all network architectures. Well that brings nother issues up. Adding complexity where it is not needed in many cases. There is reliabity added by doing it at layer2. Fewer compenent to fail and manage. There is a benefit to centralized management and configuration, when scaling large projects. When end users have routers at the DMarc, there is often little need to route, as the path is rarely peer to peer in nature, and all tend to follow the path to backbone. Not that I'm not saying Routing doesn;t have its importance to be implemented at the right strategic places. Its jsut not needed every hop along the path. There are automated routing tasks like RIP and OSPF, or simlar, but its awefully risky allowing route advertizing to the front edge of ones network, or the consumer radio to have the abilty to advertise routes. Layer2 virtual circuits and VPN, are also often adequate solution to solve problems of deployment. Unless we are talking best effort, all customers should have their own VLAN and therefore any network will have an upper limit on its size without routers. Clearly some combination of layer 2 and layer 3 is the right way to go for even a medium size network. The Super cell gives the ISP better central control and simplicity. I don't believe an argument has been made to back up your above statement. Mesh has its purpose, but as a last resort in my opinion. When a Super cell is unable to reach the clientel. But I'd argue many samll repeater cells is a better way to go, so reliabilty and shortest path can be engineered into every site. When paths from point A to point B change automatically, its difficult to loose control of performance levels an individual may have at one point in time over another. QOS is near impossible to guarantee on MESH. I look at MESH as a Best effort service, and it should be deployed only when thatlevel of service isrequired. Reliability and QOS is all about creating shortest number of hops, with most direct solid links. Just my opinion. We'll see what the Muni Mesh network brings to the table after their many future case studies to come. Its the Mesh companies that are the ones pushing it,and in their eye. The reason has to do with assets not technology. Muni's don;t own the roof tops and towers. They own the street poles. Mesh works from the Street poles. MESH is a way to intiate a project, without third parties getting in the way. The Muni controls the assets required for the Technology to pull off its job. Its building management companies and owners that control the expansion of Broadband in the Super Cell. I think you may be mixing too many arguments. We are using a fully meshed MPLS network for our fiber backbone. Our choice of a mesh architecture for our fiber backbone has nothing to do with client reachability, politics, vendor's opinions, or anything else outside of practical requirements. Our network devices can and do make routing decisions on the fly that result in better throughput, lower latency, and better QoS than traditional star and ring architectures can achieve. Understand that every major ISP is now either running a fully meshed MPLS network or has plans to migrate to one. Muni has two choices... Go Mesh, or partner with the Local WISP, that already own the rights to the roof tops and spectrum, toguarantee quick progress. There are some exceptions to this, as many Muni's control water towers, if they are strategically located. I don't think Muni choices whatever they are should have anything to do with an technical discussion regarding the merits of mesh as a network architecture. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were a couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month stage.. Come down and visit some of our mesh networks if you'd like. Mesh may be a over-hyped buzzword not unlike WiMAX, but that doesn't mean the technology is not without merit. Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality. No you can't. P2P and P2MP systems are static layer 2 and layer 3 architectures where as a mesh system can be dynamic at both layer 2 and layer 3. Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I believe, much better stability. Functionally, both systems deliver data, but flexibility is higher with mesh, scalability could be better or worse depending on the network, and stability is almost never a function of architecture. With all the above being stated, mesh is easy to achieve and hard to get right. Don't even bother with WDS or other poor man's mesh. If you can't afford to do mesh right, don't; stick with P2MP. Folks can argue the multiple radio issue as much as they want in regard to mesh and Tropos with its single radio nodes continue to run circles around everyone else. We have deployed Tropos and while we don't like certain aspects about them, I can tell you without a doubt that they are the most well engineered mesh nodes I have ever encountered. With that being said, we are now deploying multiple radio mesh nodes because the requirements of our project demand them. However, the amount of engineering that goes into making a multiple radio mesh work rivals and some would say exceeds that of a cellular network. In short, mesh sounds good in theory, mesh is easy to create technically, but in practice, in the field, mesh is hard to get right unless you have a product like Tropos that does it all for you. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
No the problem with Mesh is it adds many hops to the path, therefore adding significant latency, and inability to control QOS, or identify where the QOS lies. Self interference is impossible to avoid without killing every other in town at the same time. routing... Well that brings nother issues up. Adding complexity where it is not needed in many cases. There is reliabity added by doing it at layer2. Fewer compenent to fail and manage. There is a benefit to centralized management and configuration, when scaling large projects. When end users have routers at the DMarc, there is often little need to route, as the path is rarely peer to peer in nature, and all tend to follow the path to backbone. Not that I'm not saying Routing doesn;t have its importance to be implemented at the right strategic places. Its jsut not needed every hop along the path. There are automated routing tasks like RIP and OSPF, or simlar, but its awefully risky allowing route advertizing to the front edge of ones network, or the consumer radio to have the abilty to advertise routes. Layer2 virtual circuits and VPN, are also often adequate solution to solve problems of deployment. The Super cell gives the ISP better central control and simplicity. Mesh has its purpose, but as a last resort in my opinion. When a Super cell is unable to reach the clientel. But I'd argue many samll repeater cells is a better way to go, so reliabilty and shortest path can be engineered into every site. When paths from point A to point B change automatically, its difficult to loose control of performance levels an individual may have at one point in time over another. QOS is near impossible to guarantee on MESH. I look at MESH as a Best effort service, and it should be deployed only when thatlevel of service isrequired. Reliability and QOS is all about creating shortest number of hops, with most direct solid links. Just my opinion. We'll see what the Muni Mesh network brings to the table after their many future case studies to come. Its the Mesh companies that are the ones pushing it,and in their eye. The reason has to do with assets not technology. Muni's don;t own the roof tops and towers. They own the street poles. Mesh works from the Street poles. MESH is a way to intiate a project, without third parties getting in the way. The Muni controls the assets required for the Technology to pull off its job. Its building management companies and owners that control the expansion of Broadband in the Super Cell. Muni has two choices... Go Mesh, or partner with the Local WISP, that already own the rights to the roof tops and spectrum, toguarantee quick progress. There are some exceptions to this, as many Muni's control water towers, if they are strategically located. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives the same functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are fine because that is what people have been building since forever. Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks. Is that the problem you see? Lonnie On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were a couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month stage.. Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality. Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi deployments that are down at street level. Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I believe, much better stability. That help? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: ISPlists To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List' Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment. I have a small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and I'm thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be great. Thanks, Steve -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/p
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
We released the code yesterday as part of our v3 for the WAR boards. The beta part is mostly for the Atheros driver which continues to get tweaks and add-ons. We have been testing and playing with mesh since Fall 2005. We felt it was ready for prime time. Lonnie On 2/23/06, Mario Pommier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Lonnie, > when will your radios support mesh, as described in your previous post? > > M > > > Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: > I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you would > not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives the same > functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are fine because that > is what people have been building since forever. Mesh handles routing > issues and requires routed networks. Is that the problem you > see? Lonnie On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were > a couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the > same sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 > month stage.. Having said that, you can still give them the same > functionality. Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy, > Alvarion, pick your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi > deployments that are down at street level. Same functionality, greater > flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I believe, much better > stability. That help? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 > (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own > wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net > meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - > Original Message - From: ISPlists To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; > 'WISPA General List' Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: > [WISPA] Mesh Equipment Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh > equipment. I have a small town that wants to provide Internet access to the > entire town and I'm thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be > great. Thanks, Steve -- WISPA > Wireless List: > wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: > http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA > Wireless List: > wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: > http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
I am not disputing that at all. What I was saying that mesh is a routing mechanism and as such is used on the backhaul and microcell to tie them together. As such it is far superior to a backhaul and microcell approach without mesh routing. That is all I was trying to say. Lonnie On 2/23/06, chris cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The primary challenge from my experience is LOS issues on the link side. > You can solve this by deploying more nodes or more injection points > according to design and budget. The new 900 Mhz cards look interesting > to link those few out of the way nodes. > > chris > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler > Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:52 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment > > I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you > would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives > the same functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are > fine because that is what people have been building since forever. > > Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks. Is that the > problem you see? > > Lonnie > > On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots > were a > > couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same > > sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month > > stage.. > > > > Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality. > > > > Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, > pick > > your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi > deployments > > that are down at street level. > > > > Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, > I > > believe, much better stability. > > > > That help? > > Marlon > > (509) 982-2181 Equipment > > sales > > (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services > > 42846865 (icq)And I run > > my own wisp! > > 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) > > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless > > www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: ISPlists > > To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List' > > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM > > Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment > > > > Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment. I have > a > > small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town > and I'm > > thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be great. > > > > Thanks, > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > -- > Lonnie Nunweiler > Valemount Networks Corporation > http://www.star-os.com/ > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.15.0 - Release Date: 2/1/2006 > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts
Judge Judy Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cliff Leboeuf Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts Jory, To me, it depends on a few things... 1. Do you have a written contract that has a term commitment and the cancellation fees clearly stated? 2. If you do, is it amount worth pursuing for collections based on the risk, money and time you will spend? 3. If you do pursue, and win, is the customer capable of paying the judgment? I have been successful in enforcing a number of my contracts through small claims court. - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jory Privett Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract? If someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their contract? Any Ideas or suggestions? Jory Privett WCCS -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/267 - Release Date: 2/22/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
Lonnie, when will your radios support mesh, as described in your previous post? M Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives the same functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are fine because that is what people have been building since forever. Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks. Is that the problem you see? Lonnie On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were a couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month stage.. Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality. Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi deployments that are down at street level. Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I believe, much better stability. That help? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: ISPlists To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List' Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment. I have a small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and I'm thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be great. Thanks, Steve -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts
We usually compile them and send em to an attorney that sends out 1 nastygram form letter. We get some $$ back that way. I have always functioned under the assumption that folks who don't pay their bills etc. aren't too likely to bring it up in public. Since we are all bound to have some amount of bad debt, I wonder if it would work to compile it all and sell the whole book of debt to a factoring house? Chris Cooper Intelliwave 2. If you do, is it amount worth pursuing for collections based on the risk, money and time you will spend? 3. If you do pursue, and win, is the customer capable of paying the judgment? I have been successful in enforcing a number of my contracts through small claims court. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
The primary challenge from my experience is LOS issues on the link side. You can solve this by deploying more nodes or more injection points according to design and budget. The new 900 Mhz cards look interesting to link those few out of the way nodes. chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives the same functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are fine because that is what people have been building since forever. Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks. Is that the problem you see? Lonnie On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were a > couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same > sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month > stage.. > > Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality. > > Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick > your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi deployments > that are down at street level. > > Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I > believe, much better stability. > > That help? > Marlon > (509) 982-2181 Equipment > sales > (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services > 42846865 (icq)And I run > my own wisp! > 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless > www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > > > > - Original Message - > From: ISPlists > To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List' > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM > Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment > > Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment. I have a > small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and I'm > thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be great. > > Thanks, > Steve > > > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.15.0 - Release Date: 2/1/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts
Jory, To me, it depends on a few things... 1. Do you have a written contract that has a term commitment and the cancellation fees clearly stated? 2. If you do, is it amount worth pursuing for collections based on the risk, money and time you will spend? 3. If you do pursue, and win, is the customer capable of paying the judgment? I have been successful in enforcing a number of my contracts through small claims court. - Cliff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jory Privett Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:41 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract? If someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their contract? Any Ideas or suggestions? Jory Privett WCCS -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts
Is this a residential customer ? Is it worth the bad advertising on your part to pursue it ? What were their reasons for cancelling ? We don't even have a contract in place any longer. We have a TOS and an acceptable use policy in place but no need to waste our time with the extra paperwork for useless contracts. If you provide a high level of service and treat your customers right, why would they leave ? If it's for price - tell them good luck - Chances are they will be back if they are "service" oriented and not "price" driven. JohnnyO On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 11:41 -0600, Jory Privett wrote: I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract? If someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their contract? Any Ideas or suggestions? Jory Privett WCCS -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives the same functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are fine because that is what people have been building since forever. Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks. Is that the problem you see? Lonnie On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were a > couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same > sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month > stage.. > > Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality. > > Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick > your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi deployments > that are down at street level. > > Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I > believe, much better stability. > > That help? > Marlon > (509) 982-2181 Equipment > sales > (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services > 42846865 (icq)And I run > my own wisp! > 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless > www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > > > > - Original Message - > From: ISPlists > To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List' > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM > Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment > > Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment. I have a > small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and I'm > thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be great. > > Thanks, > Steve > > > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st
That $10,000 fine is a standard FCC violation fine and can apply to almost any situation where a violation has occurred. Now I am NOT condoning violating FCC rules but these are the facts and we have to face it. When was the last time someone was fined for being over EIRP limits, NEVER! Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Terms and Contracts
I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract? If someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their contract? Any Ideas or suggestions? Jory Privett WCCS -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were a couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month stage.. Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality. Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi deployments that are down at street level. Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I believe, much better stability. That help? Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: ISPlists To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List' Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment. I have a small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and I'm thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be great. Thanks, Steve -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks
Yeah. Cheap tools always come to roost sooner or later. Usually sooner and at a very bad time! Grin Now if I could just find a good cable tester at $5. heheheheh Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Pete Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:29 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks Welcome back to the list, Roger. Marlon, I had a crimper like that with a crack in it. Poor crimps kept biting me in the posterior, till I bought one of these: http://www.all-spec.com/1/viewitem/30-496/ALLSPEC/prodinfo/allspecsession=1393318938D195632&promoid=&w3path=vend I got mine locally from a electrician supply place, but approx that price. The end goes in closer to the axis of the lever as cheaper crimpers, so you crimp twice as hard with less effort, and there is a "stop" you can feel when you have crimped hard enough. After using this one, I am through buying $15-$20 crimpers like this one: http://www.cablesnmor.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=272 or even the $25 ones Radioshack sells. Pete Davis NoDial.net Marlon K. Schafer wrote: dude! We're working on getting people to fill out the fcc forms. We're hunting for new spectrum (current fight is for unused tv spectrum). Today I checked on the 5.4 band. It's to the spell check the certification docs phase. We're "very close" on that one! Also checked on 3650 and tv white spaces (at the fcc), nothing new to report at this time. As for a really fun one.. Yesterday I found out that there's a hairline crack on my cat5 crimper. It's not pushing the connectors all of the way down. Don't know if it's been that way for 2 days, 2 months or 2 years. I do know that I've got a lot, maybe hundreds, of connections that aren't completely crimped! Guess I'll be finding them over the next few years. sigh Great to see ya here. Hope you stick around man. For an old man like you, it's probably a good thing you are spending a lot of time near hospitals! roflol That help? marlon - Original Message - From: "Roger Boggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks Bored to tears in a hotel room outside of Richmond, VA so I thought I'd jump onto this list and see who's here and what we're talking about lately. Haven't been doing much outdoor wireless stuff for more than a year now.. All indoor - mostly in hospitals and warehouses in support of RFID installations.. Just seeing what's hot and what's not these days. Carry on. Roger Boggs -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000
OK, this gets a bit sticky for me I work on the side as a sales geek for electro-comm and therefore sell this gear. Apply appropriate grain of salt. *I* use this gear in my network because it's priced well and it works. They get away with such low pricing because it's using the Atheros chip set. But it's NOT wifi. The guys at Airaya put their own firmware on the chip. Very cool stuff. The new gear just works. It's got some cool features too. If you don't need to go really fast you can adjust your bandwidth used, I think down to 10 mhz. I don't remember all of the specs. The antenna that they send with the kit are of great quality and have good solid mounting kits. These days they are very big in the 4.9 space (same radios, different programming) and are ready to open up 5.4 as soon as it's allowed (which I was told by the FCC a couple of days ago is VERY, VERY close). http://www.airaya.com/ That help? Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000 Whats the deal n the airaya stuff? Are they making the 5.3 stuff? What are the specs? Dan MetcalfWireless Broadband Systemswww.wbisp.com781-846-6798 ext 6201[EMAIL PROTECTED]support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:04 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000 Hiya Matt, I used to sell Solectek gear. Years ago. It was a good company with good gear as I recall. If you are up and running and have a good reputation in your market it never hurts to try new toys. These days most of the gear I'm buying for links like that comes from Airaya. It's great stuff and I LOVE the 5.3 band! laters, Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Matt Glaves To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000 I have never used the Solectek equipment and am looking at either trying their Skyway 7101 or the Trango Atlas for some short building to building links. I have seen enough favorable posts about the Atlas to know plenty of you are using it successfully – although I sure wish I could get one of their sales folks to return a phone call. Leave a message about buying 250 CPEs and no one calls back Anyway J I would like to get opinions on the Skyway 7000. This would be for very short <.5 mile links between buildings. We would normally use Terabeam/Proxim systems but are looking for alternatives with similar capabilities and 20-40% lower cost. Any info/opinions on reliability and real world throughput would be great. Thanks, Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/267 - Release Date: 02/22/2006 --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/267 - Release Date: 02/22/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000
Title: Message Have you looked at Airaya's web site? It's pretty informative: http://www.airaya.com/products/p2m.asp -Charles ---WiNOG Austin, TXMarch 13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:05 AMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000 Whats the deal n the airaya stuff? Are they making the 5.3 stuff? What are the specs? Dan MetcalfWireless Broadband Systemswww.wbisp.com781-846-6798 ext 6201[EMAIL PROTECTED]support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:04 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000 Hiya Matt, I used to sell Solectek gear. Years ago. It was a good company with good gear as I recall. If you are up and running and have a good reputation in your market it never hurts to try new toys. These days most of the gear I'm buying for links like that comes from Airaya. It's great stuff and I LOVE the 5.3 band! laters, Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Matt Glaves To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000 I have never used the Solectek equipment and am looking at either trying their Skyway 7101 or the Trango Atlas for some short building to building links. I have seen enough favorable posts about the Atlas to know plenty of you are using it successfully – although I sure wish I could get one of their sales folks to return a phone call. Leave a message about buying 250 CPEs and no one calls back Anyway J I would like to get opinions on the Skyway 7000. This would be for very short <.5 mile links between buildings. We would normally use Terabeam/Proxim systems but are looking for alternatives with similar capabilities and 20-40% lower cost. Any info/opinions on reliability and real world throughput would be great. Thanks, Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/267 - Release Date: 02/22/2006 --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/267 - Release Date: 02/22/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Have a referal for service in S.C.
Anyone cover Orangeburg, S.C.? Hit me offlist. Victoria Proffer www.StLouisBroadBand.com 314-974-5600 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Should we work to change some FCC rules? was--Fw: Latest WISP FCC visit
Hi All, I was just going through some old stuff on my puter and bumped into this post from Tom. Buried in there is a rehash of the idea of a real FCC recognized professional installer. Is WISPA in a position to push for this? Can we come up with a certification program? Can we take on the role of keeping pace with the new rules etc. for recertification's etc.? laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Marlon Schafer (509-982-2181)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:11 PM Subject: Re: Latest WISP FCC visit Marlon, Overall you made a good summarry, but you are somewhat missing the boat on your end comments. Basically, the gist of what I got was... The FCC didn't protest the fact that we could make an antenna equivellent to a Vivato using off the shelf components, nor that we need more power. They just couldn't allow the free public to go around makeing their own changes, its to hard to inforce accuracy of engineering decissions. Their point was that someone had to be accountable. The FCC relaxed the rules, by offloading some of the FCC's responsibilities off to the Manufacturer and giving them more control for authorizing certification and engineering validitiy. But the Manufacturer NOW TAKES RESPONSIBILITY for the accuracy of its decission to call an antenna certified and approved. In other the Manufacturer assumes liability. Marlon, what you were asking for was to use more power under certain cercumstances. And the FCC was asking how are they going to have accountability if that was allowed. As of today, the FCC rules, allow you to gather a bunch of off the shelf rules, call your self a manufacturer, and send in a request to certify that group of antennas as a single item for certification. That way a FCC certification gets tied to that solution. What we ran against is that the freedom would not be given to an third party enginner or consultant or end user to make that judgement or bypass the rules. So even if we came up with an idea of what cercumstances we should be allowed to use more power, the solution to do so would still need to be certified by the manufacturer. The FCC was very responsive because they suggested that they had an open door for a proposal to consider, and I believe they were sincere. I suggesed that what we needed, was a program (as has been suggested for years by Marlon) that allowed third party designers, expert, and engineers to have flexibility to innovate, and make decissions, and the only way that that could happen would be if in parallel it also was a program to hold the thrid party engineer accountable for their decission. I think what we need is a proposal of how we think the certified engineer program could work. For example, under basic rules, no certification needed. However, third party engineers could get licenses that registered them as WISP engineers, and their name and license gets put on the table when they design a system. The engineer becomes responsible, and if the FCC inspects a WISP's cell site, and finds it not done correctly, then the engineer becomes liable. And when we take liability, we gain the right to innovate and make substitutions. The certified engineer shouldn't be about how much training the engineer needs to get, but more about the liability that they are willing to signup for. How do we stop abuse, and detect abuse, if the rules get relaxed? Thats what the FCC wants the proposal for. I don't protest that we need more power in rural areas where there will be little harm in giving it. But how do we do it? Maybe the answer needs to revolve arounf down tilt, and coverage radius. For every X degree of downtilt added to the antenna, X db increase can be used. Or maybe we have to prove that our area has geograpghical ubstructions to prevent the spread of interference outside of our area, if higher power is used. To use higher power, make us submit proof that we performed a study verifying that we could not detect our signal out side a certain radius at a certain strength. For example, in a valley between mountains on all side, high power could be used, because the mountains would block the RF from leaving the area. Or maybe we are allowed, if the area is rated at a certain density level for trees and tree height. Or maybe we create a list, that tracks people that bend the rules, with justification meeting a criteria. For example, the default WISP operating under basic rules, has no obligation to report its deployment. However, any WISP that wants to bend the rules
Re: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks
Its always good to hear a chime in from one of the original early guys in the game, now and then. Lots of stuff happening here in WISP land. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Roger Boggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:15 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks This time of year, I don't miss standing around on rooftops one bit... I'll probably be the one doing all the knowledge absorption nowadays.. Thanks Rick. Thought I'd see a few names I hadn't seen/heard in a while over here... At 10:54 PM 2/21/2006, you wrote: Welcome Roger! Sounds like a much warmer environment than what some of us work in during the winter. Your welcome to stay around for awhile. We welcome your experienced input. Rick Harnish -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st
I don't remember if it was this list or isp-wireless that talked about this a bit more specifically. In a nutshell, the fine for not filling it out is up to $10,000 as I read it. Again, however, the biggest reason for us to fill this out is political. They need to know that when someone from the wisp industry, and wispa specifically, says something, we're not just talking about 400 operators and 4000 subscribers.. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st On all due respectIt didn't answer the question.. -B- Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, For those that think it's no big deal to not fill this out. Please read the note below from Ellen Burton with the FCC. She's in charge of this form. Guys, they are making this as easy as they can for us. I think we have nothing to gain and much to loose by being a PITA. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Ellen Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:44 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st See #20 in the set of Form 477 FAQs that's available at http://www.fcc.gov/broadband/broadband_data_faq.html: 20. Are there penalties for not filing Form 477? Entities that are required to file Form 477 but fail to do so may be subject to the enforcement provisions of the Communications Act and any other applicable law. In particular, the Commission has authority pursuant to sections 502 and 503 of the Communications Act to enforce compliance by fine or forfeiture. -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:30 PM To: Ellen Burton Subject: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st Hiya Ellen, Remember when I asked what the penalty is for not filing the 477? Got an answer for me yet? thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" ; "Marlon Schafer (509-982-2181)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st OK...OK. I agree that all should probably file. I have several partners so I am not the only one to decide so I will leave it at that as it pertains to my WISP entity. BUT...What is the penalty for not filing Does anyone know??? Can we get an official statement for this situation? Are there fines? Penalty's?? Do you get a nasty gram?? Do they not send me a xmas card next year?? What??? It may help bring more compliance or it may result in less filings. Either way I think the membership should know. Marlon...How about asking some of your contacts. -B- -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st
Righto. It's now 1 subscriber not 250. Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Mario Pommier To: WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:58 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st hmm, seems like I was reding the old form from Year 2,000.Mario Pommier wrote: If I understand correctly, any WISP with less than 250 customers in a given state does not need to file.The reporting threshold for broadband reporting is facilities-based firms that provide at least 250 one-way or two-way broadband (in excess of 200 kilobits per second) service lines or wireless channels in a given state, or have at least 250 one-way or two-way broadband customers in a given state.Correct?If so, I don't understand the sense of setting up a threshold like this one.MarioBob Moldashel wrote: On all due respectIt didn't answer the question.. -B- Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, For those that think it's no big deal to not fill this out. Please read the note below from Ellen Burton with the FCC. She's in charge of this form. Guys, they are making this as easy as they can for us. I think we have nothing to gain and much to loose by being a PITA. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Ellen Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:44 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st See #20 in the set of Form 477 FAQs that's available at http://www.fcc.gov/broadband/broadband_data_faq.html: 20. Are there penalties for not filing Form 477? Entities that are required to file Form 477 but fail to do so may be subject to the enforcement provisions of the Communications Act and any other applicable law. In particular, the Commission has authority pursuant to sections 502 and 503 of the Communications Act to enforce compliance by fine or forfeiture. -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:30 PM To: Ellen Burton Subject: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st Hiya Ellen, Remember when I asked what the penalty is for not filing the 477? Got an answer for me yet? thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" ; "Marlon Schafer (509-982-2181)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st OK...OK. I agree that all should probably file. I have several partners so I am not the only one to decide so I will leave it at that as it pertains to my WISP entity. BUT...What is the penalty for not filing Does anyone know??? Can we get an official statement for this situation? Are there fines? Penalty's?? Do you get a nasty gram?? Do they not send me a xmas card next year?? What??? It may help bring more compliance or it may result in less filings. Either way I think the membership should know. Marlon...How about asking some of your contacts. -B- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers
That was pretty much my thought. I can do a good job on the crimps (as long as I don't have a broken crimper, sigh). The problem is doing the crimps when it's 10* with a 20mph breeze blowing. That's when it gets really hard to keep those wires in the right order while you try to push them into the crimp. laters, Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: JohnnyO To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers I'm the one who turned Rick and many others onto these Marlon - We've been using them for almost 3yrs. We have had 1 truck roll due to a bad crimp in this amount of time. Yes they are expensive if you look at it on a per crimp basis - but what is $1.10 per install worth to you in time / frustration / a professional crimp ?I buy these in bulk in lots of 10,000 at a time. If anyone wants to purchase some ends for these I can prob save you $15.00 per 300pack and $10.00 on the tool.JohnnyOOn Wed, 2006-02-22 at 12:22 -0500, Rick Smith wrote: they're EZ RJ45 crimpers / ends. and yeah, they're around 50 - 70 cents PER CONNECTOR. BUT I'll tell you whatsince I bought them, I've NEVER remade a cable, NOR have I had to use a cable tester... I won't go back now... actually feel helpless to borrow someone else's crimpers / ends Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: > That's it. Thanks! > > Do you really pay $.60 per connector??? Maybe it's not as nice of a > tool as I thought > > laters, > Marlon > (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales > (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services > 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! > 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless > www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > > > - Original Message - From: "Aubrey Wells" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List"> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:14 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers > > >> http://www.happcontrols.com/electrical_supplies/92060900.htm >> >> --- >> Aubrey Wells >> One Ring Networks >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> o: (404) 601.1407 >> f: (404) 601.1408 >> c: (770) 356.9767 >> >> >> >> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I'm looking for a crimper I saw someone talk about. It uses special >>> rj45 connectors that allow the cable to go through the end. Then the >>> crimper crimps and cuts to length at the same time. >>> >>> Anyone know what it's called and where to get the connectors and the >>> crimper? >>> >>> thanks! >>> >>> Marlon >>> (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales >>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services >>> 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! >>> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) >>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless >>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000
Whats the deal n the airaya stuff? Are they making the 5.3 stuff? What are the specs? Dan Metcalf Wireless Broadband Systems www.wbisp.com 781-846-6798 ext 6201 [EMAIL PROTECTED] support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:04 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000 Hiya Matt, I used to sell Solectek gear. Years ago. It was a good company with good gear as I recall. If you are up and running and have a good reputation in your market it never hurts to try new toys. These days most of the gear I'm buying for links like that comes from Airaya. It's great stuff and I LOVE the 5.3 band! laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Matt Glaves To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000 I have never used the Solectek equipment and am looking at either trying their Skyway 7101 or the Trango Atlas for some short building to building links. I have seen enough favorable posts about the Atlas to know plenty of you are using it successfully – although I sure wish I could get one of their sales folks to return a phone call. Leave a message about buying 250 CPEs and no one calls back Anyway J I would like to get opinions on the Skyway 7000. This would be for very short <.5 mile links between buildings. We would normally use Terabeam/Proxim systems but are looking for alternatives with similar capabilities and 20-40% lower cost. Any info/opinions on reliability and real world throughput would be great. Thanks, Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/267 - Release Date: 02/22/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.0.0/267 - Release Date: 02/22/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000
Hiya Matt, I used to sell Solectek gear. Years ago. It was a good company with good gear as I recall. If you are up and running and have a good reputation in your market it never hurts to try new toys. These days most of the gear I'm buying for links like that comes from Airaya. It's great stuff and I LOVE the 5.3 band! laters, Marlon(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Matt Glaves To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000 I have never used the Solectek equipment and am looking at either trying their Skyway 7101 or the Trango Atlas for some short building to building links. I have seen enough favorable posts about the Atlas to know plenty of you are using it successfully although I sure wish I could get one of their sales folks to return a phone call. Leave a message about buying 250 CPEs and no one calls back Anyway J I would like to get opinions on the Skyway 7000. This would be for very short <.5 mile links between buildings. We would normally use Terabeam/Proxim systems but are looking for alternatives with similar capabilities and 20-40% lower cost. Any info/opinions on reliability and real world throughput would be great. Thanks, Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st
hmm, seems like I was reding the old form from Year 2,000. Mario Pommier wrote: If I understand correctly, any WISP with less than 250 customers in a given state does not need to file. The reporting threshold for broadband reporting is facilities-based firms that provide at least 250 one-way or two-way broadband (in excess of 200 kilobits per second) service lines or wireless channels in a given state, or have at least 250 one-way or two-way broadband customers in a given state. Correct? If so, I don't understand the sense of setting up a threshold like this one. Mario Bob Moldashel wrote: On all due respectIt didn't answer the question.. -B- Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, For those that think it's no big deal to not fill this out. Please read the note below from Ellen Burton with the FCC. She's in charge of this form. Guys, they are making this as easy as they can for us. I think we have nothing to gain and much to loose by being a PITA. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Ellen Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:44 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st See #20 in the set of Form 477 FAQs that's available at http://www.fcc.gov/broadband/broadband_data_faq.html: 20. Are there penalties for not filing Form 477? Entities that are required to file Form 477 but fail to do so may be subject to the enforcement provisions of the Communications Act and any other applicable law. In particular, the Commission has authority pursuant to sections 502 and 503 of the Communications Act to enforce compliance by fine or forfeiture. -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:30 PM To: Ellen Burton Subject: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st Hiya Ellen, Remember when I asked what the penalty is for not filing the 477? Got an answer for me yet? thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" ; "Marlon Schafer (509-982-2181)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st OK...OK. I agree that all should probably file. I have several partners so I am not the only one to decide so I will leave it at that as it pertains to my WISP entity. BUT...What is the penalty for not filing Does anyone know??? Can we get an official statement for this situation? Are there fines? Penalty's?? Do you get a nasty gram?? Do they not send me a xmas card next year?? What??? It may help bring more compliance or it may result in less filings. Either way I think the membership should know. Marlon...How about asking some of your contacts. -B- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st
If I understand correctly, any WISP with less than 250 customers in a given state does not need to file. The reporting threshold for broadband reporting is facilities-based firms that provide at least 250 one-way or two-way broadband (in excess of 200 kilobits per second) service lines or wireless channels in a given state, or have at least 250 one-way or two-way broadband customers in a given state. Correct? If so, I don't understand the sense of setting up a threshold like this one. Mario Bob Moldashel wrote: On all due respectIt didn't answer the question.. -B- Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, For those that think it's no big deal to not fill this out. Please read the note below from Ellen Burton with the FCC. She's in charge of this form. Guys, they are making this as easy as they can for us. I think we have nothing to gain and much to loose by being a PITA. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Ellen Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:44 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st See #20 in the set of Form 477 FAQs that's available at http://www.fcc.gov/broadband/broadband_data_faq.html: 20. Are there penalties for not filing Form 477? Entities that are required to file Form 477 but fail to do so may be subject to the enforcement provisions of the Communications Act and any other applicable law. In particular, the Commission has authority pursuant to sections 502 and 503 of the Communications Act to enforce compliance by fine or forfeiture. -Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:30 PM To: Ellen Burton Subject: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st Hiya Ellen, Remember when I asked what the penalty is for not filing the 477? Got an answer for me yet? thanks! marlon - Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" ; "Marlon Schafer (509-982-2181)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st OK...OK. I agree that all should probably file. I have several partners so I am not the only one to decide so I will leave it at that as it pertains to my WISP entity. BUT...What is the penalty for not filing Does anyone know??? Can we get an official statement for this situation? Are there fines? Penalty's?? Do you get a nasty gram?? Do they not send me a xmas card next year?? What??? It may help bring more compliance or it may result in less filings. Either way I think the membership should know. Marlon...How about asking some of your contacts. -B- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] technology event
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/confpage/060307.htm For anyone that's interested. It would be great to see some wireless folks at this. laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers
I agree, this is the set that I have been using for 8 years now. Has interchangable dies for rj-11 and rj-45. Probably made 1000+ ends with no bad crimps and still a nice working tool, no slop. Altho, they cost $125, I would use none other. http://www.tecratools.com/pages/datacom/graphics/39150l.gif Pete Davis wrote: Yeah. I bought a $45 pair of Ideal brand crimpers, and it was definitely money well spent. I am familiar with those ratcheting ones, too. They are nice. The $15 that come free with a box of cable sometimes are what we WERE using, but we were having to redo ends more often than not. It was rare to get a 2 crimp install done with just two ends with cheap crimpers. Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers
Yeah. I bought a $45 pair of Ideal brand crimpers, and it was definitely money well spent. I am familiar with those ratcheting ones, too. They are nice. The $15 that come free with a box of cable sometimes are what we WERE using, but we were having to redo ends more often than not. It was rare to get a 2 crimp install done with just two ends with cheap crimpers. Pete Davis NoDial.net Mark Koskenmaki wrote: The "local" electronics store sold me a pair of crimpers that listed for $55, but since the package was trashed, he gave me $10 off. Boy, I have never regretted it. No more of those cheap ones. Not a single bad crimp since I changed crimpers and yes, we use the "cheap" standard ends. We had issues with the "regular" ones, even though we had tried 3 different pairs of crimpers. We never left a customer with a bad cable, but there was a couple times the c able didn't work, and visually inspecting the crimp showed a deficiency. These things are NOT very convenient to use, but they have this ratcheting mechanism that won't let you let loose of the connector until you squeeze all the way.The plug is tight in the crimper, and they are very heavy. Not a single bad crimp since then. North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Pete Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers I have bought those before. They are kind of a cool novelty, but they don't add THAT much reliability/speed/ease of use/etc IMO. pd Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: That's it. Thanks! Do you really pay $.60 per connector??? Maybe it's not as nice of a tool as I thought laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Aubrey Wells" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers http://www.happcontrols.com/electrical_supplies/92060900.htm --- Aubrey Wells One Ring Networks [EMAIL PROTECTED] o: (404) 601.1407 f: (404) 601.1408 c: (770) 356.9767 Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Hi All, I'm looking for a crimper I saw someone talk about. It uses special rj45 connectors that allow the cable to go through the end. Then the crimper crimps and cuts to length at the same time. Anyone know what it's called and where to get the connectors and the crimper? thanks! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Tech CEOs urge US find more wireless airwaves
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060223/tc_nm/telecoms_wireless_ceos_dc The executives also plan to suggest the FCC ease restrictions on wireless licenses so companies have more flexibility to use the airwaves for new services. They also will recommend making more unlicensed spectrum available that could be used for a variety of purposes. The organization also plans to recommend Congress and regulators ensure that public safety organizations have the airwaves they need. Safety officials have complained about poor communications during disasters like the September 11 attacks and Hurricane Katrina. The FCC is slated to start auctioning some airwaves June 29, including some airwaves that government agencies are vacating. Other airwaves are expected to be sold in 2008 ahead of the 2009 move by U.S. television broadcasters from analog wireless airwaves to other airwaves for their digital television signals. -- Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/