Re: [WISPA] VOIP

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Here is the part that really sucks

I have an asterisk box setup, and five customers beta testing voip on my 
network.  It works fine.  Those five customers have used a grand total 
of 1003 minutes so far this month.  My cost for termination minutes is 
.02 per minute, with a $5/month charge per DID line, so it cost me about 
$8/month to provide service for each of the beta customers.  This is 
something I can sell for $25 to $30/month, and it is competitive with 
Packet8/Vonage/etc because the voice quality is superior (the SIP 
gateway is at the NOC, so no one is more than 40 ms away and I can 
control the network between them and the SIP box).   Even if I get a 
bunch of people who use a lot more minutes, my average margin per 
customer would be in the $12 range.   50% margin?  Yeah, I think that 
works for me.


So far, LNP is not a big deal - it's pretty easy to get a toll-free line. 

But the 911 requirement is a problem.  The whole PSAP setup where the 
local authorities get their 911 information is a joke.  CLECs control 
access and can charge whatever they want - plus there is a charge for 
every communication center connection. 

I see two "out of the box" ways to deal with the 911 requirement.  The 
first, is to have a wifi/gsm phone, and roaming agreements with GSM 
providers.  Then , responsibility for the 911 call is shifted to the GSM 
provider.


The second is to build some kind of Internet-enabled way of bypassing 
the PSAP system and delivering the information directly to the local 
communication center. 

It is too expensive for a smaller operator (or even a medium sized 
operator for that matter) to implement the traditional PSAP T1 
connection method to get out to each comm center.  Until that is 
resolved, there will only be big operators and little guys living under 
the radar, hoping that no one busts them for not being 911 compliant.


Matt Larsen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


I'm just looking to offer customers an alternative to the phone line.

That is, I'd like to give them an excuse to drop the Qwest copper line, keep
phone service, and give me the money instead.

And for those who live outside any other broadband, I can make a package
deal that puts them right in there with what they'd get if the telco did
move in... in other words, NO REASON TO LEAVE IN THE FUTURE.




North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP


 


The margin in consumer VOIP is disappearing. The costs of the
infrastructure including DIDs and 911 implementation have slammed the
industry. Read Vonage's IPO to better understand the 911 liability and
cost.

In a couple of cases I have consulted on, the local CO was not
accessible by any CLEC, so no LNP, so no one to outsource the VOIP to.

BOCs have learned that most consumers switch to VOIP for cost savings,
so have lowered their costs. Plus cableco's have gotten into the game
(and can do 911) and bundle on one bill.

You can try to do it yourself (and Asterisk is a GREAT tool for this),
but if you aren't a CLEC, how do you handle 911 and LNP?

Now if you wanted to sell Hosted PBX to Businesses, that's valuable.

Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

   


I don't understand your point about "selling on margins".

I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than
RETAIL.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are
currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail
offerings.

There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP
 


service
 


with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per
customer.

I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin.  I just said I wanted something I
could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to
get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs
more than retail.

If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange.
 


As
 


best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and
customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing
with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure.
 


Nobody
 


seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of
ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages,
 


one
 


would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe
not.   The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective
 


to
 


scale upwards, more so than customer service.


 


--
WISPA

Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations

[Tom DeReggi]

.  In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct
multiple of its ARPU.


Wrong. Thats old school.  Evaluation is a direct multiple of the ARPU that 
the buyer can acheive because they bought your netowrk. Consider their new 
ability to gain revenue at a quicker rate, based on the unique benefit of 
combining the buyers and sellers assets. The way of increasing revenue is 
irrelevent. Consildation... Time to Market... illiminating a competitor 
allowing for higher prices, Throwing money and a marketing engine onto a 
network built out to serve that previously had little money to market its 
growth.



Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the
overall health of the bottom line.


Yes but your example does not consider cost to obtain client, jsut to 
maintain. The benefit of residential is the higher rate to obtain 
subscribers, with less marketing, less salesmanship, less barriers, and 
lower standard of Quality for lower cost of more forgiving maintenance.



So why is
the differentiating factor that allows some WISPs to sell that
Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection for $300+ month ARPU
while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU?


Market conditions and demand.


IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY...


I'd argue market conditions is the biggest factor. So why spend the money on 
the higher price gear?


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc


-

-

-Charles

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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Tom DeReggi]

you jsut gotta pick your software well.


OK. What do you pick, and why?

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Jeromie Reeves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment



Tom DeReggi wrote:

No the problem with Mesh is it adds many hops to the path, therefore 
adding significant latency, and inability to control QOS, or identify 
where the QOS lies. Self interference is impossible to avoid without 
killing every other in town at the same time.


QoS is easy with mesh, you jsut gotta pick your software well. Its very 
easy to identify where QoS is at. Self interferance is also

very easy to avoid (no 400mw cards on 10db omnis ok? thats a no no)





routing...



Well that brings nother issues up. Adding complexity where it is not 
needed in many cases. There is reliabity added by doing it at layer2. 
Fewer compenent to fail and manage. There is a benefit to centralized 
management and configuration, when scaling large projects.  When end 
users have routers at the DMarc, there is often little need to route, as 
the path is rarely peer to peer in nature, and all tend to follow the 
path to backbone.  Not that I'm not saying Routing doesn;t have its 
importance to be implemented at the right strategic places. Its jsut not 
needed every hop along the path. There are automated routing tasks like 
RIP and OSPF, or simlar, but its awefully risky allowing route 
advertizing to the front edge of ones network, or the consumer radio to 
have the abilty to advertise routes. Layer2 virtual circuits and VPN, are 
also often adequate solution to solve problems of deployment.


RIP is just plain evil to use unless its for a end use LAN only. OSPF only 
works for mesh when your urnning 3+ radios/node. There is nothing
wrong with your client hardware helping with routes control the hardware>. Central control is nice and works well. So does
micro managing when you do it in centralized way (central server, all 
nodes request updated info every X hours or its pushed when a change is

made)




The Super cell gives the ISP better central control and simplicity.


Define better and what central/non centralized configuration setups you 
are comparing.





Mesh has its purpose, but as a last resort in my opinion. When a Super 
cell is unable to reach the clientel.  But I'd argue many samll repeater 
cells is a better way to go, so reliabilty and shortest path can be 
engineered into every site.   When paths from point A to point B change 
automatically, its difficult to loose control of performance levels an 
individual may have at one point in time over another. QOS is near 
impossible to guarantee on MESH. I look at MESH as a Best effort service, 
and it should be deployed only when thatlevel of service isrequired. 
Reliability and QOS is all about creating shortest number of hops, with 
most direct solid links.  Just my opinion. We'll see what the Muni Mesh 
network brings to the table after their many future case studies to come. 
Its the Mesh companies that are the ones pushing it,and in their eye. 
The reason has to do with assets not technology.  Muni's don;t own the 
roof tops and towers. They own the street poles.  Mesh works from the 
Street poles. MESH is a way to intiate a project, without third parties 
getting in the way. The Muni controls the assets required for the 
Technology to pull off its job. Its building management companies and 
owners that control the expansion of Broadband in the Super Cell.


Muni has two choices... Go Mesh, or partner with the Local WISP, that 
already own the rights to the roof tops and spectrum, toguarantee quick 
progress.  There are some exceptions to this, as many Muni's control 
water towers, if they are strategically located.


Mesh also works from non pole setups. Muni pole setups should use multi 
radio overlapping stars for the mesh, not single radio mesh. Mesh can
have QoS its not a open buffet. Anyone deploying in the ISM/UNII bands is 
a "best effort" service. 3650 and licensed is the way out of "best effort" 
land.





Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you
would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives
the same functionality.  Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are
fine because that is what people have been building since forever.

Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks.  Is that the
problem you see?

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:


First off, don't.  Mesh is all the rage today.  Just like hotspots were 
a

couple of years ago.  Mesh and

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Tom DeReggi]

MAtt,


The Super cell gives the ISP better central control and simplicity.


I don't believe an argument has been made to back up your above statement.


Trie I did not offer any backup data. But use your immagination. Its all in 
one place, easy to check, easy to document, easy to configure, easy to 
backup, etc.

What does mesh offer for better complete central management?

> I think you may be mixing too many arguments.

I may be mixing up typical deployment models using MESH with MESH 
Technology.

It also depends on your definition of MESH.
I admit, I made a generalization of a typical way MESH would be deployed, in 
my arguements.
Deployed at street level, so many short hops were required to get coverage 
and get around NLOS obstacles, in a dense city environment.
A network that made its own intelligent routing decissions, that may not 
always be the most intelligent compared to the human mind's decissions.



We are using a fully meshed MPLS network for our fiber backbone.


But is that really MESH? Technically you could call any multi-path routed 
network, MESH. I call my network a routed network using triangulation.
But I would not call it MESH. But it very well could be considered similar 
to MESH.


Our choice of a mesh architecture for our fiber backbone has nothing to do 
with client reachability, politics, vendor's opinions, or anything else 
outside of practical requirements. Our network devices can and do make 
routing decisions on the fly that result in better throughput, lower 
latency, and better QoS than traditional star and ring architectures can 
achieve.


What criteria does your network OS sue to deterine routing changes? Measure 
highest packet loss? measure most amount of available bandwdith? Measure 
least amount of average bandwidth? Measure shortest path? Lowest latency? 
Lowest cost ($) transit or transport provider path? And how many can they 
consider togeather to make the best overall decission?
I'd be interested in hearing more about what you are doing with MPLS in your 
design.


Also understand this is a Wireless list, not a fiber list. The design flaws 
of MESH over fiber (fast packet-loss less links) is a completely different 
animal with different challenges than MESH in Wireless.


I recognize that MESH is at a new stage of being more than just the 
implementation of RIP2. (Allthough early MESH was not much more than RIP).
But I do not believe that computers make better decissions than engineers in 
all cases. I'm not convinced that has been accomplished yet.

However, I'm open to being proven wrong.
One of the reasons I am hesitant to MESH is that static data (non-MESH) is 
very easy to be managed by a Human, but its very difficult to manage dynamic 
data. Human mind can't make decissions on criteria it does not know about, 
because the known are not known. MESH takes away power from the engineer.


Understand that every major ISP is now either running a fully meshed MPLS 
network or has plans to migrate to one.


Thats a very bold statement, that is not true. However, that does not mean I 
do not recognize the benefits of the advanced design of MPLS networks.


Muni has two choices... Go Mesh, or partner with the Local WISP, that 
already own the rights to the roof tops and spectrum, toguarantee quick 
progress.  There are some exceptions to this, as many Muni's control 
water towers, if they are strategically located.


I don't think Muni choices whatever they are should have anything to do 
with an technical discussion regarding the merits of mesh as a network 
architecture.


How do you figure? I sure hope the network design that was getting proposed, 
was something they would take the time to evaluate, in making their 
decissions.
Anyone would look at there assets to locate gear, and consider that into 
their design. Thats step 1 of any wireless network design.


Tom DeReggi



-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] VOIP BOC?

[A. Huppenthal]

I wonder what we should start calling the new telcos. There are 3 
international companies that control nearly all of telcom today. 
Verizon/MCI, SBC that bought Cingular/ATT, and Sprint/Nextel. They 
aren't Bell Operating Companies. They are really big, mostly unchecked 
mega-telcos. RBMTs.. :-)


Peter R. wrote:
The margin in consumer VOIP is disappearing. The costs of the 
infrastructure including DIDs and 911 implementation have slammed the 
industry. Read Vonage's IPO to better understand the 911 liability and 
cost.


In a couple of cases I have consulted on, the local CO was not 
accessible by any CLEC, so no LNP, so no one to outsource the VOIP to.


BOCs have learned that most consumers switch to VOIP for cost savings, 
so have lowered their costs. Plus cableco's have gotten into the game 
(and can do 911) and bundle on one bill.


You can try to do it yourself (and Asterisk is a GREAT tool for this), 
but if you aren't a CLEC, how do you handle 911 and LNP?


Now if you wanted to sell Hosted PBX to Businesses, that's valuable.

Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


I don't understand your point about "selling on margins".

I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than
RETAIL.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are
currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail
offerings.

There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP 
service

with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per
customer.

I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin.  I just said I wanted something I
could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than 
retail to
get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale 
costs

more than retail.

If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little 
strange.   As

best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and
customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of 
dealing
with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure.   
Nobody

seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of
ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has 
advantages, one
would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, 
maybe
not.   The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost 
effective to

scale upwards, more so than customer service.
 



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Re: [WISPA] DSL - NJ / PA Sprint / Verizon

[A. Huppenthal]

contact the dsl loop provider. in some states, like CO, you need an ATM 
connection to the Qwest cloud, with specific ATM features - and then its 
pretty simple. you pay per loop, Qwest sends the ATM cells over to you 
on a specific virtual path (vpi,vci) -- you provide the IP services to 
the customer. You'll need to check for a wholesaler that has DSL loops 
available in the Central Offices serving the areas you are interested 
in. They'll tell you what deal they have. Occasionally (like with Qwest) 
you can sell your IP access over their ATM network, and/or you can sell 
their IP over the DSL.


Things are changing rapidly however. Some LECs are pulling their DSL 
facilities out of wholesale, disallowing ISPs to use the DSL/copper. 
You've probably heard from the government - bigger is better, the LECs 
aren't monopolies, and if they are, its really a good thing. ;-) off my 
soap box now...


Good luck. If you find a stable DSL provider, see if you can't use DSL 
loops (very cheap) to extend your APs to areas you might serve. Be 
advised there are several national DSL providers - most of which suck in 
my opinion, and you'll need to actually test the performance of their 
product. We've seen DSL sold to us as 1.5 megabit that rarely reached 
768K and the jerks were charging a huge premium. If you need their name, 
contact me offline.


My experience with Qwest has been surprisingly good, on the other hand.

Rick Smith wrote:


How does a WISP go about adding DSL resale to its list of services.

I'd like to resell some DSL access to places we can't provide wireless.

Need to deal with Sprint Local in Sussex / Warren Counties, VCerizon 
in Morris County, and Warwick Valley Telephone in upper Sussex County, 
NJ and Orange County, NY.


If anyone has any contacts in Verizon for starters, please let me know 
how you got started reselling DSL...


R



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Re: [WISPA] VOIP

[Mark Koskenmaki]

I'm just looking to offer customers an alternative to the phone line.

That is, I'd like to give them an excuse to drop the Qwest copper line, keep
phone service, and give me the money instead.

And for those who live outside any other broadband, I can make a package
deal that puts them right in there with what they'd get if the telco did
move in... in other words, NO REASON TO LEAVE IN THE FUTURE.




North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Peter R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP


> The margin in consumer VOIP is disappearing. The costs of the
> infrastructure including DIDs and 911 implementation have slammed the
> industry. Read Vonage's IPO to better understand the 911 liability and
> cost.
>
> In a couple of cases I have consulted on, the local CO was not
> accessible by any CLEC, so no LNP, so no one to outsource the VOIP to.
>
> BOCs have learned that most consumers switch to VOIP for cost savings,
> so have lowered their costs. Plus cableco's have gotten into the game
> (and can do 911) and bundle on one bill.
>
> You can try to do it yourself (and Asterisk is a GREAT tool for this),
> but if you aren't a CLEC, how do you handle 911 and LNP?
>
> Now if you wanted to sell Hosted PBX to Businesses, that's valuable.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
> RAD-INFO, Inc.
>
> Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
>
> >I don't understand your point about "selling on margins".
> >
> >I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than
> >RETAIL.
> >
> >Nothing more, nothing less.
> >
> >I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are
> >currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail
> >offerings.
> >
> >There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP
service
> >with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per
> >customer.
> >
> >I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin.  I just said I wanted something I
> >could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to
> >get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs
> >more than retail.
> >
> >If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange.
As
> >best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and
> >customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing
> >with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure.
Nobody
> >seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of
> >ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages,
one
> >would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe
> >not.   The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective
to
> >scale upwards, more so than customer service.
> >
> >
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Victoria Proffer]

Hey Roger,
No, it's my blue tooth oh... 
that's what you meant ;-)

Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Boggs
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

The thing growing on the side of V''s head is caused by overuse of the
cellular phone.  Sue the cellular phone company.

Everyone else in the civilized world should bring a class action suit
against  all television and radio transmitting staions, police departments,
airports, airlines, phone companies, utility companies, and last/not least
the Department of Defense for invading their personal spaces with
omnidirectional kilowatt/megawatt transmissions of cancer inducing
RF/Microwave signals.

First, lets get rid of all doppler weather radars for all television
stations.  Next, lets ban the use of radar (weather and navigational) on
every vessel operating on navigable waterways in the United States.

Just to be sure, lets get those GPS satellites out of space, along with the
Direct TV and Dish Network transmitters in space blanketing us with this
evil cancer causing death ray...

Just to be sure, we had better do away with other such evil-doers of the
world such as Citizens Band Radio, 800MHz trunking radio, all cellular
telephone services (digital and analog), 2-way pagers, 900M/2.4G/5.8G
phones, wireless stereo speakers, baby monitors, wireless stereo headphones,

I consider myself to have a little common sense.  If I accept the theory
that WiFi is a danger to the public health, then I have no other choice than
to banish the FCC and make all RF transmission illegal.

How much money would we get back on our taxes next year if the FCC were
abolished and everyone in the FCC were laid off?



At 08:29 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote:


>Not going to allow it until "proven safe".
>
>Can we assume that all illegitemate drug use has been stopped?
>
>Underage alcohol consumption doesn't exist?
>
>Binge drinking has been halted?
>
>No "unsafe" sex occurs on campus or by students?
>
>No students speed, or drive unsafely?
>
>What a concept... Nothing allowed on campus unless PROVEN safe.   Guess
that
>means the food service is halted indefinitely... :)
>
>No coffee, no pepsi, no Mt Dew, no RC cola...
>
>Just think of the upsides... No politicians on campus, either :)
>
>Sheesh...

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Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services--SomeObservations

[Mark Koskenmaki]

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless
Services--SomeObservations


> 
> I desperately need a GOOD VOIP wholesale deal, where I own the customer
and
> do frontline support, it's my own brand (if I brand it) and I merely  bulk
> buy minutes, numbers, and CPE.I can't sell my customers a 400 minute
> account that costs me 25 bucks a month.  They can buy Packet8 for less
than
> most resell deals.
> 
>
> You're thinking like the "ISP techie" -- e.g., if I'm not better / cheaper
/
> faster...then I can't be in business
>
> Obviously, this isn't how things work

Charles, you assume far too much.   This is Mark The Businessman talking.

You see, if I can't provide my customers good value for thier money, then I
have no business taking thier money.

It's how I sleep at night and it's my duty to my fellow man.   Maybe some
folks out there will rape the customer for all he can get from him... I
cannot do so in good conscience.

I do not have to be "cheaper".  I have to provide the customer good value
for his money.Darn, that's old fashioned.  My God, it's moralistic.
Heavens, it's totally out of fashion "loyalty to customers"...

Whatever it is, that's how I do business, and if you're here to tell me
"this isn't how things work" then don't waste your breath.I'm not
looking to be the cheapest on earth.   I am NOT the "cheapest" you can get
for broadband where I am.   But I am good value for the money.   And that's
what I want to offer for VOIP service, too.

>
> Case in point -- I know of a market that consists of 2 Canopy WISPs -- the
> owners / principles of one come from a techie / residential ISP
background,
> and sell wireless broadband connections (various rates of 1 Mb, 2 Mb, 3 Mb
> burstable connections) for $29-69 / month
>
> In the same market, the 2nd Canopy WISP has people who come from a carrier
/
> enterprise sales background, and they sell the EXACT SAME WIRELESS
> CONNECTION (from a technological standpoint that is, it's still an
> unlicensed Motorola SM / AP) for $300-600 / month
>
> Now, it is worth noting that the guys in WISP #2 are 100 lbs overweight,
> have grey hair, and wear suits, while the guys in WISP #1 (although in
their
> late 20s now) -- still resemble adolescent college fraternity kids
>
> However, when they first hit the market, I was thinking, jeez, these guys
> (WISP #2) are absolutely nuts, they're morons, trying to sell overpriced
> @#$@ -- they'll never turn on a customer
>
> Yet consistently, I see guys from WISP #2 outsell guys from WISP #1 in
> competitive deals (e.g., customer has a T1 line they're paying $500 /
month
> for, and WISP #1 comes in and tries to sell a 3 Mb connection for $69 --
> nothing happens -- 3 months later, WISP #2 comes in and sells a 3 Mb
> "dedicated" connection for $600 / month to the same customer)
>
> Go figure...

They say "There's a sucker born every minute".   I will not take advantage
of them.

When I reach the end of my life it will not matter if I were rich or poor,
only whether I can face my Maker with a clean conscience.


North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-

>
> -Charles
>
>
> ---
> WiNOG Austin, TX
> March 13-15, 2006
> http://www.winog.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:09 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services
> --SomeObservations
>
>
> Quote:  "> IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... "
>
> yes, it is.   More to the point, it's about meeting your customer's needs
or
> wants.
>
> Not shoving things at them they don't need or want, but genuinely
> discovering what it is that sparks them to buy in the first place.
>
>
>
> I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move
> from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for
me
> to do.   Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find.
> Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP
system
> for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale"
programs.
>
> What I really need, then, is someone who does more of the backend stuff
> (including providing e911)  but does so in mass quantity, and doesn't
> "touch" my customer.
>
> I've also found that pc service can be a good side venture, but I'm not
> convinced that we can actually compete on price with the computer store.
If
> we're busy, it's better value for our time to install and support our own
> services.
>
> Just random thoughts 

Re: [WISPA] VOIP

[Peter R.]

The margin in consumer VOIP is disappearing. The costs of the 
infrastructure including DIDs and 911 implementation have slammed the 
industry. Read Vonage's IPO to better understand the 911 liability and 
cost.


In a couple of cases I have consulted on, the local CO was not 
accessible by any CLEC, so no LNP, so no one to outsource the VOIP to.


BOCs have learned that most consumers switch to VOIP for cost savings, 
so have lowered their costs. Plus cableco's have gotten into the game 
(and can do 911) and bundle on one bill.


You can try to do it yourself (and Asterisk is a GREAT tool for this), 
but if you aren't a CLEC, how do you handle 911 and LNP?


Now if you wanted to sell Hosted PBX to Businesses, that's valuable.

Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc.

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


I don't understand your point about "selling on margins".

I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than
RETAIL.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are
currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail
offerings.

There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP service
with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per
customer.

I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin.  I just said I wanted something I
could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to
get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs
more than retail.

If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange.   As
best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and
customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing
with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure.   Nobody
seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of
ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages, one
would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe
not.   The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective to
scale upwards, more so than customer service.
 


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[WISPA] DSL - NJ / PA Sprint / Verizon

[Rick Smith]

How does a WISP go about adding DSL resale to its list of services.

I'd like to resell some DSL access to places we can't provide wireless.

Need to deal with Sprint Local in Sussex / Warren Counties, VCerizon in 
Morris County, and Warwick Valley Telephone in upper Sussex County, NJ 
and Orange County, NY.


If anyone has any contacts in Verizon for starters, please let me know 
how you got started reselling DSL...


R

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Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Roger Boggs]

At 10:41 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote:


Roger Boggs wrote:


Ooops!!!  How could I forget this one...

Must make all amateur radio operations illegal and lock them all up and
confiscate all their equipment!!!

Either that or start suing all the ham radio operators for the suspected
damage they've done to us all, too


Don't get me started Boggs!   :-)

What Up Rog' ?  Welcome back.  Ya didn't miss anything..

Hope all is well.

-B-

-
You should have told me not to get you started before I got you started, Bob...

Nothing new here - still doing wireless stuff - just doing the RFID 
stuff and indoor

wireless nowadays...

Exactly the same, except totally different.

Just as baffling and mysterious as RF ever was..

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Re: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

[Peter R.]

Jory Privett wrote:

I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract?  If 
someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their 
contract?  Any Ideas or suggestions?


Jory Privett
WCCS

Collections usually works, but negotiating with the end user should be 
the first step.


Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate
813.963.5884 
http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm



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RE: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations

[Charles Wu]

Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want 
because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale 
our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. 
Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying 
on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in 
volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. 
There really is no in-between.


I know a lot of people out there who are willing to pay $30+ / month for a
VoIP handset (in fact, my office has 40 handsets, and we still pay an
outsourced VoIP provider $30 / month FOR EVERY SINGLE HANDSET -- then we get
charged per minute local / long-distance rates)

Another example

A good friend of mine runs a colocation company in the Equinix IBX -- he
charges $50 / month per U of rack space
IBM, in a cage less than 50' away from him, charges $1k / month per U for
rack space

IBM has more colo'd servers than my friend

Maybe you just aren't selling properly?

-Charles

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:26 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services
--SomeObservations


Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

>I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's 
>move from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable
for me
>to do.   Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find.
>Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP 
>system for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced 
>"wholesale" programs.
>
>  
>


-Matt

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RE: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations

[Charles Wu]

I desperately need a GOOD VOIP wholesale deal, where I own the customer and
do frontline support, it's my own brand (if I brand it) and I merely  bulk
buy minutes, numbers, and CPE.I can't sell my customers a 400 minute
account that costs me 25 bucks a month.  They can buy Packet8 for less than
most resell deals.


You're thinking like the "ISP techie" -- e.g., if I'm not better / cheaper /
faster...then I can't be in business

Obviously, this isn't how things work

Case in point -- I know of a market that consists of 2 Canopy WISPs -- the
owners / principles of one come from a techie / residential ISP background,
and sell wireless broadband connections (various rates of 1 Mb, 2 Mb, 3 Mb
burstable connections) for $29-69 / month

In the same market, the 2nd Canopy WISP has people who come from a carrier /
enterprise sales background, and they sell the EXACT SAME WIRELESS
CONNECTION (from a technological standpoint that is, it's still an
unlicensed Motorola SM / AP) for $300-600 / month

Now, it is worth noting that the guys in WISP #2 are 100 lbs overweight,
have grey hair, and wear suits, while the guys in WISP #1 (although in their
late 20s now) -- still resemble adolescent college fraternity kids

However, when they first hit the market, I was thinking, jeez, these guys
(WISP #2) are absolutely nuts, they're morons, trying to sell overpriced
@#$@ -- they'll never turn on a customer

Yet consistently, I see guys from WISP #2 outsell guys from WISP #1 in
competitive deals (e.g., customer has a T1 line they're paying $500 / month
for, and WISP #1 comes in and tries to sell a 3 Mb connection for $69 --
nothing happens -- 3 months later, WISP #2 comes in and sells a 3 Mb
"dedicated" connection for $600 / month to the same customer)

Go figure...

-Charles


---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Koskenmaki
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:09 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services
--SomeObservations


Quote:  "> IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... "

yes, it is.   More to the point, it's about meeting your customer's needs or
wants.

Not shoving things at them they don't need or want, but genuinely
discovering what it is that sparks them to buy in the first place.



I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move
from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me
to do.   Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find.
Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system
for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" programs.

What I really need, then, is someone who does more of the backend stuff
(including providing e911)  but does so in mass quantity, and doesn't
"touch" my customer.

I've also found that pc service can be a good side venture, but I'm not
convinced that we can actually compete on price with the computer store.  If
we're busy, it's better value for our time to install and support our own
services.

Just random thoughts on the topic...




North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Cc: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:45 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- 
SomeObservations


> Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of
"what's
> the best radio" or "who's got those cool blue lights" -- however, 
> FWIW,
I've
> noticed that there seldom is any debate on "useful" topics like sales 
> & marketing (especially of the product positioning of license-exempt
wireless)
>
> Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But
fuel
> the fire with a few observations
>
> -
> 
> -
>
> ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User.  This is the 
> average revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged 
> the same
price
> -- with some customers charged less and others more.  Customer type
usually
> determines price.  In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a 
> direct multiple of its ARPU.
>
> The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level / 
> Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following
license-exempt
> broadband wireless "WiMAX" connections have been calculated as 
> follows:
>
> Broadband "Lite" Residential Service
> (512 / 512 Kb Burstable)
> MRR: $24.95
> MRC: $20
>
> Best Effort Residential Service
> (5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable)
> MRR: $39

RE: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --Some Observations

[Charles Wu]

Generally speaking, we have found the cost/time to sell a customer is 
the same no matter how large the service delivered is. In other words, 
it takes just as long to sell a "DS3" as it does a "T1" even though the 
"DS3" is significantly more profitable.


Hi Matt,

I would disagree with you on the above statement
IMO, I've found that the SMB service offering (e.g., sub-T1 to 3xT1) plans
seem to be the most profitable (highest margin) opportunities available
Once you get to "carrier services" (e.g., 10+ Mb) -- the big guys start to
take notice and completely drop their pants

-Charles 

---
WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006
http://www.winog.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:03 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services
--Some Observations


We have observed the following:

It is easier to explain wireless after the fact then to sell wireless 
itself. In other words, we sell a service that provides X amount of 
internet access and Y phone lines that we just happen to deliver 
wirelessly. Once a customer is "sold" on the value of the service it is 
easy to explain the benefits of fixed wireless over copper.

Our "T1" price is lower than the rest of the market, but it is easier 
and more profitable to sell 3Mbps at the market price of a T1 then to 
sell our lower priced "T1" service.



All of the above means that while we are a seemingly large WISP, we 
don't have that many customers; our ARPU is just very high.

-Matt

Charles Wu wrote:

>Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of 
>"what's the best radio" or "who's got those cool blue lights" -- 
>however, FWIW, I've noticed that there seldom is any debate on "useful" 
>topics like sales & marketing (especially of the product positioning of 
>license-exempt wireless)
>
>Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But 
>fuel the fire with a few observations
>
>-
>
>-
>
>ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User.  This is the 
>average revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged 
>the same price
>-- with some customers charged less and others more.  Customer type usually
>determines price.  In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct
>multiple of its ARPU. 
>
>The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level / 
>Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following 
>license-exempt broadband wireless "WiMAX" connections have been 
>calculated as follows:
> 
>Broadband "Lite" Residential Service
>(512 / 512 Kb Burstable) 
>MRR: $24.95 
>MRC: $20
>
>Best Effort Residential Service
>(5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable) 
>MRR: $39.95 
>MRC: $20
>
>Best Effort Business Class Service
>(5 Mb / 1 Mb Burstable) 
>MRR: $149.95 
>MRC: $25
>
>Dedicated Business Class Service
>(5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) 
>(1 Mb / 1 Mb Dedicated) 
>MRR: $249.95 
>MRC: $30
>
>Dedicated Business SLA Service
>(5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) 
>(3 Mb / 3 Mb Dedicated) 
>MRR: $449.95 
>MRC: $40
>
>Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the 
>overall health of the bottom line.
>
>Interestingly enough, all the following service plans are achieved 
>using the EXACT SAME license-exempt broadband wireless access 
>technology.  So why is the differentiating factor that allows some 
>WISPs to sell that Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection 
>for $300+ month ARPU while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU?
>
>IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY...
>
>-
>
>-
>
>-Charles
>
>--
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>  
>

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Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Bob Moldashel]

Roger Boggs wrote:


Ooops!!!  How could I forget this one...

Must make all amateur radio operations illegal and lock them all up and
confiscate all their equipment!!!

Either that or start suing all the ham radio operators for the suspected
damage they've done to us all, too



Don't get me started Boggs!   :-)

What Up Rog' ?  Welcome back.  Ya didn't miss anything..

Hope all is well.

-B-

--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Roger Boggs]

You could have blamed it on the dog, and nobody would have known
the difference, Cliff...

At 10:29 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote:


Roger,
That wasn't CO2 that passes by you...It was methane! :-)
Oops...
- Cliff


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RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Cliff Leboeuf]

Roger,
That wasn't CO2 that passes by you...It was methane! :-)
Oops...
- Cliff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Boggs
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

You can breathe all you want to, as long as you don't get all
that second hand carbon dioxide on me...

And I just saw some of that CO2 pass by me a minute ago!!

I'm gonna trap some of it in a bottle and if it matches the CO2
that came out of you, you're buzzard meat buddy

Just like the RF that came in my hotel window a minutes ago without my
contractually granted permission...

At 10:20 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote:

>Yea...and another thing that causes death...Breathing!
>
>If you do it long enough, eventually you will die.
>I guess I should ban breathing too!
>
>:-)

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RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Roger Boggs]

You can breathe all you want to, as long as you don't get all
that second hand carbon dioxide on me...

And I just saw some of that CO2 pass by me a minute ago!!

I'm gonna trap some of it in a bottle and if it matches the CO2
that came out of you, you're buzzard meat buddy

Just like the RF that came in my hotel window a minutes ago without my
contractually granted permission...

At 10:20 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote:


Yea...and another thing that causes death...Breathing!

If you do it long enough, eventually you will die.
I guess I should ban breathing too!

:-)


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Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Roger Boggs]

Ooops!!!  How could I forget this one...

Must make all amateur radio operations illegal and lock them all up and
confiscate all their equipment!!!

Either that or start suing all the ham radio operators for the suspected
damage they've done to us all, too

At 10:11 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote:


The thing growing on the side of V''s head is caused by overuse of the
cellular phone.  Sue the cellular phone company.

Everyone else in the civilized world should bring a class action suit
against  all television and radio transmitting staions, police departments,
airports, airlines, phone companies, utility companies, and last/not least
the Department of Defense for invading their personal spaces with 
omnidirectional

kilowatt/megawatt transmissions of cancer inducing RF/Microwave signals.

First, lets get rid of all doppler weather radars for all television 
stations.  Next,

lets ban the use of radar (weather and navigational) on every vessel operating
on navigable waterways in the United States.

Just to be sure, lets get those GPS satellites out of space, along with the
Direct TV and Dish Network transmitters in space blanketing us with this
evil cancer causing death ray...

Just to be sure, we had better do away with other such evil-doers of the world
such as Citizens Band Radio, 800MHz trunking radio, all cellular telephone
services (digital and analog), 2-way pagers, 900M/2.4G/5.8G phones, wireless
stereo speakers, baby monitors, wireless stereo headphones,

I consider myself to have a little common sense.  If I accept 
the theory that
WiFi is a danger to the public health, then I have no other choice 
than to banish

the FCC and make all RF transmission illegal.

How much money would we get back on our taxes next year if the FCC were
abolished and everyone in the FCC were laid off?


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RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Cliff Leboeuf]

Yea...and another thing that causes death...Breathing!

If you do it long enough, eventually you will die.
I guess I should ban breathing too!

:-)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Boggs
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

The thing growing on the side of V''s head is caused by overuse of the
cellular phone.  Sue the cellular phone company.

Everyone else in the civilized world should bring a class action suit
against  all television and radio transmitting staions, police
departments,
airports, airlines, phone companies, utility companies, and last/not
least
the Department of Defense for invading their personal spaces with 
omnidirectional
kilowatt/megawatt transmissions of cancer inducing RF/Microwave signals.

First, lets get rid of all doppler weather radars for all television 
stations.  Next,
lets ban the use of radar (weather and navigational) on every vessel
operating
on navigable waterways in the United States.

Just to be sure, lets get those GPS satellites out of space, along with
the
Direct TV and Dish Network transmitters in space blanketing us with this
evil cancer causing death ray...

Just to be sure, we had better do away with other such evil-doers of the
world
such as Citizens Band Radio, 800MHz trunking radio, all cellular
telephone
services (digital and analog), 2-way pagers, 900M/2.4G/5.8G phones,
wireless
stereo speakers, baby monitors, wireless stereo headphones,

I consider myself to have a little common sense.  If I accept the 
theory that
WiFi is a danger to the public health, then I have no other choice 
than to banish
the FCC and make all RF transmission illegal.

How much money would we get back on our taxes next year if the FCC were
abolished and everyone in the FCC were laid off?



At 08:29 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote:


>Not going to allow it until "proven safe".
>
>Can we assume that all illegitemate drug use has been stopped?
>
>Underage alcohol consumption doesn't exist?
>
>Binge drinking has been halted?
>
>No "unsafe" sex occurs on campus or by students?
>
>No students speed, or drive unsafely?
>
>What a concept... Nothing allowed on campus unless PROVEN safe.   Guess
that
>means the food service is halted indefinitely... :)
>
>No coffee, no pepsi, no Mt Dew, no RC cola...
>
>Just think of the upsides... No politicians on campus, either :)
>
>Sheesh...

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Re: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks

[Roger Boggs]

Thanks Tom - and all others.  Good to hear from all the old names/faces.

I've learned more about copper cable crimpers here in the last two 
days than I have

from any other wireLESS list I've been on in the last two years!

:-)



At 11:22 AM 2/23/2006, you wrote:

Its always good to hear a chime in from one of the original early 
guys in the game, now and then.

Lots of stuff happening here in WISP land.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


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Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Roger Boggs]

The thing growing on the side of V''s head is caused by overuse of the
cellular phone.  Sue the cellular phone company.

Everyone else in the civilized world should bring a class action suit
against  all television and radio transmitting staions, police departments,
airports, airlines, phone companies, utility companies, and last/not least
the Department of Defense for invading their personal spaces with 
omnidirectional

kilowatt/megawatt transmissions of cancer inducing RF/Microwave signals.

First, lets get rid of all doppler weather radars for all television 
stations.  Next,

lets ban the use of radar (weather and navigational) on every vessel operating
on navigable waterways in the United States.

Just to be sure, lets get those GPS satellites out of space, along with the
Direct TV and Dish Network transmitters in space blanketing us with this
evil cancer causing death ray...

Just to be sure, we had better do away with other such evil-doers of the world
such as Citizens Band Radio, 800MHz trunking radio, all cellular telephone
services (digital and analog), 2-way pagers, 900M/2.4G/5.8G phones, wireless
stereo speakers, baby monitors, wireless stereo headphones,

I consider myself to have a little common sense.  If I accept the 
theory that
WiFi is a danger to the public health, then I have no other choice 
than to banish

the FCC and make all RF transmission illegal.

How much money would we get back on our taxes next year if the FCC were
abolished and everyone in the FCC were laid off?



At 08:29 PM 2/23/2006, you wrote:



Not going to allow it until "proven safe".

Can we assume that all illegitemate drug use has been stopped?

Underage alcohol consumption doesn't exist?

Binge drinking has been halted?

No "unsafe" sex occurs on campus or by students?

No students speed, or drive unsafely?

What a concept... Nothing allowed on campus unless PROVEN safe.   Guess that
means the food service is halted indefinitely... :)

No coffee, no pepsi, no Mt Dew, no RC cola...

Just think of the upsides... No politicians on campus, either :)

Sheesh...


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Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations

[warped.terranova.net]

What makes you think there's any margin selling retail? Figure out what 
you're doing or accept what's handed to you.


Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


I don't understand your point about "selling on margins".

I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than
RETAIL.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are
currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail
offerings.

There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP service
with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per
customer.

I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin.  I just said I wanted something I
could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to
get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs
more than retail.

If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange.   As
best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and
customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing
with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure.   Nobody
seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of
ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages, one
would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe
not.   The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective to
scale upwards, more so than customer service.


North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "warped.terranova.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless
Services --SomeObservations




"they want their cake and eat it too".. exactly. Either run your own
Asterisk server with PSTN gateway or figure out how to sell on margins and
stop whining.



Mark Koskenmaki wrote:



I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's


move


from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable
for me
to do.   Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can


find.


Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP
system
for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale"
programs.





Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want
because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale
our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too.
Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying
on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in
volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins.
There really is no in-between.

-Matt


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Re: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

[Brian Rohrbacher]

FYI Kurt, your computer appears to be set at the wrong time and date.

Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


Judge Judy

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cliff Leboeuf
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

Jory,

To me, it depends on a few things...

1. Do you have a written contract that has a term commitment and
the cancellation fees clearly stated?
2. If you do, is it amount worth pursuing for collections based
on the risk, money and time you will spend?
3. If you do pursue, and win, is the customer capable of paying
the judgment?

I have been successful in enforcing a number of my contracts through
small claims court.

- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jory Privett
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:41 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract?
If 
someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their 
contract?  Any Ideas or suggestions?


Jory Privett
WCCS


 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17

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Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Mark Koskenmaki]

Not going to allow it until "proven safe".

Can we assume that all illegitemate drug use has been stopped?

Underage alcohol consumption doesn't exist?

Binge drinking has been halted?

No "unsafe" sex occurs on campus or by students?

No students speed, or drive unsafely?

What a concept... Nothing allowed on campus unless PROVEN safe.   Guess that
means the food service is halted indefinitely... :)

No coffee, no pepsi, no Mt Dew, no RC cola...

Just think of the upsides... No politicians on campus, either :)

Sheesh...


North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors


> Prudent Avoidance (playing it safe) ???
>
> Owww, owww stop hitting me :)
>
>
> Take care Victoria (long-time, no see - I was glad to hear that you're
> doing OK).
>
> Best wishes,
>   jack
>
>
> Victoria wrote:
> > A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health
risks.
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/
> >
> > Victoria Proffer
> > www.StLouisBroadBand.com
> > 314-974-5600
> >
>
> -- 
> Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
> Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
> True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
> Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com
>
>
>
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

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Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations

[Mark Koskenmaki]

I don't understand your point about "selling on margins".

I was merely asking for a "wholesale" product that was priced less than
RETAIL.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I have yet to figure out how it is all the "wholesale" products are
currently anywhere between 10 and 100% more than the current retail
offerings.

There's no "margin" in that, unless I'm supposed to subsidize VOIP service
with my WISP revenue, which is the reverse notion of more revenue per
customer.

I didn't say I wanted a "fat" margin.  I just said I wanted something I
could bundle with my data service that didn't cost me more than retail to
get, which is why I'm a bit taken back at the notion that wholesale costs
more than retail.

If that' whining, in your view, I'd say your view was a little strange.   As
best I can tell, the biggest costs for VOIP are the infrastructure and
customer service.I merely wanted to make the unusual split of dealing
with customer service myself, but farming out the infrastructure.   Nobody
seems to be interested in doing that, and I'm not sure why. Lots of
ISP's are outsourcing customer service, and seemingly it has advantages, one
would naturally assume this is true of the VOIP business, but, hey, maybe
not.   The infrastructure, as best I can tell, is the most cost effective to
scale upwards, more so than customer service.


North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "warped.terranova.net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless
Services --SomeObservations


> "they want their cake and eat it too".. exactly. Either run your own
> Asterisk server with PSTN gateway or figure out how to sell on margins and
> stop whining.
>
> > Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
> >
> >> I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's
move
> >> from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable
> >> for me
> >> to do.   Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can
find.
> >> Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP
> >> system
> >> for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale"
> >> programs.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want
> > because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale
> > our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too.
> > Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying
> > on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in
> > volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins.
> > There really is no in-between.
> >
> > -Matt
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

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Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Brian Rohrbacher]

I'll take a tumor and wireless over no tumor and no wireless.

Victoria wrote:


I have been wondering about that thing growing on the side of my head, or it
is just the bumps that I have gotten since I have been into wireless?

Nice to see you too Jack.  
Climb any mountains lately? :-) 


Victoria

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 6:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

Prudent Avoidance (playing it safe) ???

Owww, owww stop hitting me :)


Take care Victoria (long-time, no see - I was glad to hear that you're doing
OK).

Best wishes,
 jack


Victoria wrote:
 


A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/

Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600

   



--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP
Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



 



--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17

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RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Victoria]

I have been wondering about that thing growing on the side of my head, or it
is just the bumps that I have gotten since I have been into wireless?

Nice to see you too Jack.  
Climb any mountains lately? :-) 

Victoria

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 6:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

Prudent Avoidance (playing it safe) ???

Owww, owww stop hitting me :)


Take care Victoria (long-time, no see - I was glad to hear that you're doing
OK).

Best wishes,
  jack


Victoria wrote:
> A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks.
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/
> 
> Victoria Proffer
> www.StLouisBroadBand.com
> 314-974-5600
> 

--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP
Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



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Re: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Jack Unger]

Prudent Avoidance (playing it safe) ???

Owww, owww stop hitting me :)


Take care Victoria (long-time, no see - I was glad to hear that you're 
doing OK).


Best wishes,
 jack


Victoria wrote:

A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/

Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600



--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



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Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations

[Matt Liotta]

VoIP is the future and while it is currently profitable, I don't think 
it will be long-term. I expect long-term telephone service as we know it 
will be free. In the mean time, VoIP sells data better than almost 
anything else.


-Matt

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


If that's the case, then VOIP has no future.   If there's no profit to be
made in it, then what's everyone jumping on it for?




North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless
Services --SomeObservations


 


Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

   


I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move
 


from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for
   


me
 


to do.   Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find.
Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP
 


system
 


for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale"
 


programs.
 



 


Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want
because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale
our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too.
Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying
on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in
volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins.
There really is no in-between.

-Matt

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RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Jonathan Schmidt]

...or, with cordless phones, wireless RF remote controls, lightening
storms, nearby radio towers for fire, police, sheriff, Royal Mounties,
etc.
. . . j o n a t h a n

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bobby Jacqmin
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 6:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors


So I would guess that all the companies that have in house labs for beta
testing are all goners. They are always trying to find a way to keep the
wireless broadband business down. I would like to see a proven case study on
the size of the brain tumor does it get larger with 2.4 or 5.8.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victoria
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:56 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/

Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600

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RE: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Bobby Jacqmin]

So I would guess that all the companies that have in house labs for beta
testing are all goners. They are always trying to find a way to keep the
wireless broadband business down. I would like to see a proven case study on
the size of the brain tumor does it get larger with 2.4 or 5.8.  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victoria
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:56 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors 

A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/

Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600

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[WISPA] Wi-Fi causes leukemia and brain tumors

[Victoria]

A Canadian University recently banned Wi-Fi due to unproven health risks.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/22/canada_uni_wifi_ban/

Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600

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Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations

[warped.terranova.net]

"they want their cake and eat it too".. exactly. Either run your own 
Asterisk server with PSTN gateway or figure out how to sell on margins and 
stop whining.



Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move
from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable 
for me

to do.   Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find.
Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP 
system
for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" 
programs.


 

Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want 
because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale 
our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. 
Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying 
on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in 
volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. 
There really is no in-between.


-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services --SomeObservations

[Mark Koskenmaki]

If that's the case, then VOIP has no future.   If there's no profit to be
made in it, then what's everyone jumping on it for?




North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless
Services --SomeObservations


> Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
>
> >I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move
> >from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for
me
> >to do.   Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find.
> >Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP
system
> >for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale"
programs.
> >
> >
> >
> Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want
> because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale
> our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too.
> Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying
> on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in
> volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins.
> There really is no in-between.
>
> -Matt
>
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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Lonnie Nunweiler]

No, but I posted a link to the manuals on the Support Forums.  We use
OLSR  and you can get the manuals, etc yourself.  http://www.olsr.org/

What specs do you need?  This auto routes and is not limited to 2
layer like OSPF.

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Mario Pommier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> good deal!
> do you have info on the tech specs of the system in the website?
> thanks.
>
> Mario
>
>
> Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
> We released the code yesterday as part of our v3 for the WAR boards.
The
> beta part is mostly for the Atheros driver which continues to get
tweaks and
> add-ons.

We have been testing and playing with mesh since Fall 2005. We
> felt
it was ready for prime time.

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Mario Pommier
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Lonnie,
when will your radios support mesh, as described in your previous
> post?

M


Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
I guess you'll have to learn more about
> Mesh because if you did you

> would

> not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives

> the same

> functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are

> fine because that

> is what people have been building since forever.

> Mesh handles routing

> issues and requires routed networks. Is that the

> problem you

> see?

> Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181

> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were
a

> couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the

> same

> sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12

> month

> stage..

Having said that, you can still give them the same

> functionality.

> Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy,

> Alvarion, pick

> your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi

> deployments

> that are down at street level.

Same functionality, greater

> flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I

> believe, much better

> stability.

> That help?
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment
sales
(408) 907-6910

> (Vonage) Consulting services

> 42846865 (icq) And I run
my own

> wisp!

> 64.146.146.12 (net

> meeting)

> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




-

> Original Message -

> From: ISPlists
To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ;

> 'WISPA General List'

> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject:

> [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

> Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh

> equipment. I have a

> small town that wants to provide Internet access to the

> entire town and I'm

> thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be

> great.

> Thanks,
Steve




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Valemount Networks Corporation
http://www.star-os.com/

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>
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>
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>


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Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations

[Matt Liotta]

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move
from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me
to do.   Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find.
Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system
for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" programs.

 

Maybe you stumbled upon the fact that no one offers what you want 
because it isn't cost effective to do so. As much as we try to wholesale 
our VoIP offers to other WISPs, they want their cake and eat it too. 
Being an ISP or for that matter a VoIP provider requires either relying 
on others' infrastructure, making thin margins, and making it up in 
volume or building out your own infrastructure and making great margins. 
There really is no in-between.


-Matt

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RE: [WISPA] Wisp In Killington VT?

[Charles Wu]

Title: Message



East 
Coast Snow =(
 
Go 
Rockies -- east coast is WAY too icy
 
-Charles
 
 
---WiNOG Austin, TXMarch 
13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  G.VillariniSent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 4:52 
  PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: [WISPA] Wisp In 
  Killington VT?
  
  Hey 
  folks,
   
  I up in Killington VT doing some 
  skiying… Who the wisp servicing the area with Trango 
  stuff?
   
  Gino A. Villarini, 
  
  Aeronet Wireless Broadband 
  Corp.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  www.aeronetpr.com
  787.273.4143
   
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Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- SomeObservations

[Mark Koskenmaki]

Quote:  "> IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... "

yes, it is.   More to the point, it's about meeting your customer's needs or
wants.

Not shoving things at them they don't need or want, but genuinely
discovering what it is that sparks them to buy in the first place.

I desperately need a GOOD VOIP wholesale deal, where I own the customer and
do frontline support, it's my own brand (if I brand it) and I merely  bulk
buy minutes, numbers, and CPE.I can't sell my customers a 400 minute
account that costs me 25 bucks a month.  They can buy Packet8 for less than
most resell deals.

I'd rather just bundle a VOIP service in a higher level tier (let's move
from 38 / mo to 55 or 60/mo ) of service, but needs to be affordable for me
to do.   Still, nobody's offering this kind of service, that I can find.
Either it is sold as raw products (requiring me to build a whole VOIP system
for my customers use) or as higher than retail priced "wholesale" programs.

What I really need, then, is someone who does more of the backend stuff
(including providing e911)  but does so in mass quantity, and doesn't
"touch" my customer.

I've also found that pc service can be a good side venture, but I'm not
convinced that we can actually compete on price with the computer store.  If
we're busy, it's better value for our time to install and support our own
services.

Just random thoughts on the topic...




North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Cc: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:45 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- 
SomeObservations


> Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of
"what's
> the best radio" or "who's got those cool blue lights" -- however, FWIW,
I've
> noticed that there seldom is any debate on "useful" topics like sales &
> marketing (especially of the product positioning of license-exempt
wireless)
>
> Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But
fuel
> the fire with a few observations
>
> -
> 
> -
>
> ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User.  This is the average
> revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged the same
price
> -- with some customers charged less and others more.  Customer type
usually
> determines price.  In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct
> multiple of its ARPU.
>
> The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level /
> Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following
license-exempt
> broadband wireless "WiMAX" connections have been calculated as follows:
>
> Broadband "Lite" Residential Service
> (512 / 512 Kb Burstable)
> MRR: $24.95
> MRC: $20
>
> Best Effort Residential Service
> (5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable)
> MRR: $39.95
> MRC: $20
>
> Best Effort Business Class Service
> (5 Mb / 1 Mb Burstable)
> MRR: $149.95
> MRC: $25
>
> Dedicated Business Class Service
> (5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable)
> (1 Mb / 1 Mb Dedicated)
> MRR: $249.95
> MRC: $30
>
> Dedicated Business SLA Service
> (5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable)
> (3 Mb / 3 Mb Dedicated)
> MRR: $449.95
> MRC: $40
>
> Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the
> overall health of the bottom line.
>
> Interestingly enough, all the following service plans are achieved using
the
> EXACT SAME license-exempt broadband wireless access technology.  So why is
> the differentiating factor that allows some WISPs to sell that
> Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection for $300+ month ARPU
> while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU?
>
> IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY...
>
> -
> 
> -
>
> -Charles
>
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Re: [WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- Some Observations

[Matt Liotta]

We have observed the following:

It is easier to explain wireless after the fact then to sell wireless 
itself. In other words, we sell a service that provides X amount of 
internet access and Y phone lines that we just happen to deliver 
wirelessly. Once a customer is "sold" on the value of the service it is 
easy to explain the benefits of fixed wireless over copper.


Our "T1" price is lower than the rest of the market, but it is easier 
and more profitable to sell 3Mbps at the market price of a T1 then to 
sell our lower priced "T1" service.


Generally speaking, we have found the cost/time to sell a customer is 
the same no matter how large the service delivered is. In other words, 
it takes just as long to sell a "DS3" as it does a "T1" even though the 
"DS3" is significantly more profitable.


All of the above means that while we are a seemingly large WISP, we 
don't have that many customers; our ARPU is just very high.


-Matt

Charles Wu wrote:


Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of "what's
the best radio" or "who's got those cool blue lights" -- however, FWIW, I've
noticed that there seldom is any debate on "useful" topics like sales &
marketing (especially of the product positioning of license-exempt wireless)

Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But fuel
the fire with a few observations

-

-

ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User.  This is the average
revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged the same price
-- with some customers charged less and others more.  Customer type usually
determines price.  In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct
multiple of its ARPU. 


The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level /
Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following license-exempt
broadband wireless "WiMAX" connections have been calculated as follows: 

Broadband "Lite" Residential Service 
(512 / 512 Kb Burstable) 
MRR: $24.95 
MRC: $20


Best Effort Residential Service 
(5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable) 
MRR: $39.95 
MRC: $20


Best Effort Business Class Service 
(5 Mb / 1 Mb Burstable) 
MRR: $149.95 
MRC: $25


Dedicated Business Class Service 
(5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) 
(1 Mb / 1 Mb Dedicated) 
MRR: $249.95 
MRC: $30


Dedicated Business SLA Service 
(5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) 
(3 Mb / 3 Mb Dedicated) 
MRR: $449.95 
MRC: $40


Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the
overall health of the bottom line. 


Interestingly enough, all the following service plans are achieved using the
EXACT SAME license-exempt broadband wireless access technology.  So why is
the differentiating factor that allows some WISPs to sell that
Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection for $300+ month ARPU
while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU?

IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... 


-

-

-Charles

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[WISPA] Wisp In Killington VT?

[G.Villarini]

Hey folks,

 

I up in Killington VT doing some skiying… Who the wisp
servicing the area with Trango stuff?

 

Gino A. Villarini, 

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.aeronetpr.com

787.273.4143

 






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[WISPA] Sales & Marketing of Unlicensed Wireless Services -- Some Observations

[Charles Wu]

Generally, we end up debating all day and all night on the lists of "what's
the best radio" or "who's got those cool blue lights" -- however, FWIW, I've
noticed that there seldom is any debate on "useful" topics like sales &
marketing (especially of the product positioning of license-exempt wireless)

Do we call it wDSL? Wireless? More than Wifi? WiMAX? -- who knows? But fuel
the fire with a few observations

-

-

ARPU is an acronym for the Average Revenue per User.  This is the average
revenue factored across all customers as if each were charged the same price
-- with some customers charged less and others more.  Customer type usually
determines price.  In addition, a Network Operator's valuation is a direct
multiple of its ARPU. 

The Marginal Recurring Cost (MRC) as compared to its Service Level /
Marginal Recurring Revenue (MRR) of delivering the following license-exempt
broadband wireless "WiMAX" connections have been calculated as follows: 
 
Broadband "Lite" Residential Service 
(512 / 512 Kb Burstable) 
MRR: $24.95 
MRC: $20

Best Effort Residential Service 
(5 Mb / 512 Kb Burstable) 
MRR: $39.95 
MRC: $20

Best Effort Business Class Service 
(5 Mb / 1 Mb Burstable) 
MRR: $149.95 
MRC: $25

Dedicated Business Class Service 
(5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) 
(1 Mb / 1 Mb Dedicated) 
MRR: $249.95 
MRC: $30

Dedicated Business SLA Service 
(5 Mb / 3 Mb Burstable) 
(3 Mb / 3 Mb Dedicated) 
MRR: $449.95 
MRC: $40

Looking at the numbers, it's obvious that a higher ARPU increases the
overall health of the bottom line. 

Interestingly enough, all the following service plans are achieved using the
EXACT SAME license-exempt broadband wireless access technology.  So why is
the differentiating factor that allows some WISPs to sell that
Canopy/Trango/Alvarion/whatever last mile connection for $300+ month ARPU
while other can barely get $30 / month ARPU?

IT'S OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN "JUST" TECHNOLOGY... 

-

-

-Charles

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[WISPA] Waverider Specs

[chris cooper]

We are testing a new WR cell.  The target rssi generated by the design
guide and real field tests show 10-12 db performance delta.  Anyone care
to weigh in on this?  Is this reality- the difference between vendor
spec and real world tests or should we look deeper for a problem?  We've
already worked through most of the cabling and the grounds.

That brings up a 2nd question-
If an antenna is grounded to a tower, the cabling grounded separately
prior to building penetration and the equipment grounded to house power
- does this set up a potential between the 3 different grounding
sources?  We pulled the cable ground on our last new cell and the cell
performance jumped noticeably.

Thanks
Chris Cooper
Intelliwave

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[WISPA] Canopy distributors

[Matt Liotta]

We continually find ourselves having to call around the country trying 
to find inventory. We'd prefer just to have a single distributor fulfill 
all our orders, but we expect the equipment to be stocked. It seems to 
me distributors don't provide any value if all they do is process orders 
and drop ship the equipment.


Any recommendations from the list for Canopy distributors?

-Matt
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Re: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

[Mark Koskenmaki]




We have a contract, and it serves a rather limited 
role.   Since we have only one option that requires a time commitment 
and that one is short, our contract only serves the following 
purposes:   Agreement on the customer's part not to abuse the network 
(and leaves the definition of abuse to us) and limitation of data transfers per 
account.   
 
It details what people paid for, so they're clear 
on this, and then allows us to do some enforcement of our terms of use.  

 
We've never had to enforce a single thing. 

 
Someday we might. 
 
 
 
North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061personal correspondence 
to:  mark at neofast dot netsales inquiries to:  purchasing at 
neofast dot netFast Internet, NO 
WIRES!-

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JohnnyO 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:57 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Terms and 
  Contracts
  Is this a residential customer ? Is it worth the bad 
  advertising on your part to pursue it ? What were their reasons for cancelling 
  ? We don't even have a contract in place any longer. We have a TOS and an 
  acceptable use policy in place but no need to waste our time with the extra 
  paperwork for useless contracts.If you provide a high level of service 
  and treat your customers right, why would they leave ? If it's for price - 
  tell them good luck - Chances are they will be back if they are "service" 
  oriented and not "price" driven.JohnnyOOn Thu, 2006-02-23 at 
  11:41 -0600, Jory Privett wrote: 
  I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract?  If 
someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their 
contract?  Any Ideas or suggestions?

Jory Privett
WCCS



  
  

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RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

[JohnnyO]

Hey Kurt - Fix your date and time - Several people have mentioned this already. Be a considerate list participant.

JohnnyO

On Sat, 2006-02-25 at 13:38 -0800, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


Judge Judy

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Cliff Leboeuf
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

Jory,

To me, it depends on a few things...

	1. Do you have a written contract that has a term commitment and
the cancellation fees clearly stated?
	2. If you do, is it amount worth pursuing for collections based
on the risk, money and time you will spend?
	3. If you do pursue, and win, is the customer capable of paying
the judgment?

I have been successful in enforcing a number of my contracts through
small claims court.

- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Jory Privett
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:41 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract?
If 
someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their 
contract?  Any Ideas or suggestions?

Jory Privett
WCCS


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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Jeromie Reeves]

Tom DeReggi wrote:

No the problem with Mesh is it adds many hops to the path, therefore 
adding significant latency, and inability to control QOS, or identify 
where the QOS lies. Self interference is impossible to avoid without 
killing every other in town at the same time.


QoS is easy with mesh, you jsut gotta pick your software well. Its very 
easy to identify where QoS is at. Self interferance is also

very easy to avoid (no 400mw cards on 10db omnis ok? thats a no no)





routing...



Well that brings nother issues up. Adding complexity where it is not 
needed in many cases. There is reliabity added by doing it at layer2. 
Fewer compenent to fail and manage. There is a benefit to centralized 
management and configuration, when scaling large projects.  When end 
users have routers at the DMarc, there is often little need to route, 
as the path is rarely peer to peer in nature, and all tend to follow 
the path to backbone.  Not that I'm not saying Routing doesn;t have 
its importance to be implemented at the right strategic places. Its 
jsut not needed every hop along the path. There are automated routing 
tasks like RIP and OSPF, or simlar, but its awefully risky allowing 
route advertizing to the front edge of ones network, or the consumer 
radio to have the abilty to advertise routes. Layer2 virtual circuits 
and VPN, are also often adequate solution to solve problems of deployment.


RIP is just plain evil to use unless its for a end use LAN only. OSPF 
only works for mesh when your urnning 3+ radios/node. There is nothing
wrong with your client hardware helping with routes control the hardware>. Central control is nice and works well. So does
micro managing when you do it in centralized way (central server, all 
nodes request updated info every X hours or its pushed when a change is

made)




The Super cell gives the ISP better central control and simplicity.


Define better and what central/non centralized configuration setups you 
are comparing.





Mesh has its purpose, but as a last resort in my opinion. When a Super 
cell is unable to reach the clientel.  But I'd argue many samll 
repeater cells is a better way to go, so reliabilty and shortest path 
can be engineered into every site.   When paths from point A to point 
B change automatically, its difficult to loose control of performance 
levels an individual may have at one point in time over another. QOS 
is near impossible to guarantee on MESH. I look at MESH as a Best 
effort service, and it should be deployed only when thatlevel of 
service isrequired. Reliability and QOS is all about creating shortest 
number of hops, with most direct solid links.  Just my opinion. We'll 
see what the Muni Mesh network brings to the table after their many 
future case studies to come.  Its the Mesh companies that are the ones 
pushing it,and in their eye.  The reason has to do with assets not 
technology.  Muni's don;t own the roof tops and towers. They own the 
street poles.  Mesh works from the Street poles. MESH is a way to 
intiate a project, without third parties getting in the way. The Muni 
controls the assets required for the Technology to pull off its job. 
Its building management companies and owners that control the 
expansion of Broadband in the Super Cell.


Muni has two choices... Go Mesh, or partner with the Local WISP, that 
already own the rights to the roof tops and spectrum, toguarantee 
quick progress.  There are some exceptions to this, as many Muni's 
control water towers, if they are strategically located.


Mesh also works from non pole setups. Muni pole setups should use multi 
radio overlapping stars for the mesh, not single radio mesh. Mesh can
have QoS its not a open buffet. Anyone deploying in the ISM/UNII bands 
is a "best effort" service. 3650 and licensed is the way out of "best 
effort" land.





Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you
would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives
the same functionality.  Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are
fine because that is what people have been building since forever.

Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks.  Is that the
problem you see?

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:


First off, don't.  Mesh is all the rage today.  Just like hotspots 
were a

couple of years ago.  Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same
sentence.  Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month
stage..

Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality.

Use a dedicated backhaul system.  Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick
your high end ptmp system.  Use that to feed micro cell wifi dep

Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Mario Pommier]

good deal!
do you have info on the tech specs of the system in the website?
thanks.

Mario

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

  We released the code yesterday as part of our v3 for the WAR boards. 
The beta part is mostly for the Atheros driver which continues to get
tweaks and add-ons.

We have been testing and playing with mesh since Fall 2005.  We felt
it was ready for prime time.

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Mario Pommier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
Lonnie,
when will your radios support mesh, as described in your previous post?

M


Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you

  
  would
  
  
not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives

  
  the same
  
  
functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are

  
  fine because that
  
  
is what people have been building since forever.

  
  
Mesh handles routing
  
  
issues and requires routed networks. Is that the

  
  problem you
  
  
see?

  
  
Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
  
  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  
  
  
  
First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were
a

  
  couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the
  
  
same

  
  sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12
  
  
month

  
  stage..

Having said that, you can still give them the same
  
  
functionality.

  
  
Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy,
  
  
Alvarion, pick

  
  your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi
  
  
deployments

  
  that are down at street level.

Same functionality, greater
  
  
flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I

  
  believe, much better
  
  
stability.

  
  
That help?
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment
sales
(408) 907-6910
  
  
(Vonage) Consulting services

  
  42846865 (icq) And I run
my own
  
  
wisp!

  
  64.146.146.12 (net
  
  
meeting)

  
  www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




-
  
  
Original Message -

  
  From: ISPlists
To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ;
  
  
'WISPA General List'

  
  Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject:
  
  
[WISPA] Mesh Equipment

  
  
Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh
  
  
equipment. I have a

  
  small town that wants to provide Internet access to the
  
  
entire town and I'm

  
  thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be
  
  
great.

  
  
Thanks,
Steve




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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Matt Liotta]

Tom DeReggi wrote:

No the problem with Mesh is it adds many hops to the path, therefore 
adding significant latency, and inability to control QOS, or identify 
where the QOS lies. Self interference is impossible to avoid without 
killing every other in town at the same time.


Mesh doesn't have to add hops where they aren't needed or wanted. 
Further, there is no inherent added latency for a mesh network. 
Certainly hops and TDM add latency, but that is the case with all 
network architectures.


Well that brings nother issues up. Adding complexity where it is not 
needed in many cases. There is reliabity added by doing it at layer2. 
Fewer compenent to fail and manage. There is a benefit to centralized 
management and configuration, when scaling large projects.  When end 
users have routers at the DMarc, there is often little need to route, 
as the path is rarely peer to peer in nature, and all tend to follow 
the path to backbone.  Not that I'm not saying Routing doesn;t have 
its importance to be implemented at the right strategic places. Its 
jsut not needed every hop along the path. There are automated routing 
tasks like RIP and OSPF, or simlar, but its awefully risky allowing 
route advertizing to the front edge of ones network, or the consumer 
radio to have the abilty to advertise routes. Layer2 virtual circuits 
and VPN, are also often adequate solution to solve problems of 
deployment.


Unless we are talking best effort, all customers should have their own 
VLAN and therefore any network will have an upper limit on its size 
without routers. Clearly some combination of layer 2 and layer 3 is the 
right way to go for even a medium size network.



The Super cell gives the ISP better central control and simplicity.


I don't believe an argument has been made to back up your above statement.

Mesh has its purpose, but as a last resort in my opinion. When a Super 
cell is unable to reach the clientel.  But I'd argue many samll 
repeater cells is a better way to go, so reliabilty and shortest path 
can be engineered into every site.   When paths from point A to point 
B change automatically, its difficult to loose control of performance 
levels an individual may have at one point in time over another. QOS 
is near impossible to guarantee on MESH. I look at MESH as a Best 
effort service, and it should be deployed only when thatlevel of 
service isrequired. Reliability and QOS is all about creating shortest 
number of hops, with most direct solid links.  Just my opinion. We'll 
see what the Muni Mesh network brings to the table after their many 
future case studies to come.  Its the Mesh companies that are the ones 
pushing it,and in their eye.  The reason has to do with assets not 
technology.  Muni's don;t own the roof tops and towers. They own the 
street poles.  Mesh works from the Street poles. MESH is a way to 
intiate a project, without third parties getting in the way. The Muni 
controls the assets required for the Technology to pull off its job. 
Its building management companies and owners that control the 
expansion of Broadband in the Super Cell.


I think you may be mixing too many arguments. We are using a fully 
meshed MPLS network for our fiber backbone. Our choice of a mesh 
architecture for our fiber backbone has nothing to do with client 
reachability, politics, vendor's opinions, or anything else outside of 
practical requirements. Our network devices can and do make routing 
decisions on the fly that result in better throughput, lower latency, 
and better QoS than traditional star and ring architectures can achieve. 
Understand that every major ISP is now either running a fully meshed 
MPLS network or has plans to migrate to one.


Muni has two choices... Go Mesh, or partner with the Local WISP, that 
already own the rights to the roof tops and spectrum, toguarantee 
quick progress.  There are some exceptions to this, as many Muni's 
control water towers, if they are strategically located.


I don't think Muni choices whatever they are should have anything to do 
with an technical discussion regarding the merits of mesh as a network 
architecture.


-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Matt Liotta]

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

First off, don't.  Mesh is all the rage today.  Just like hotspots 
were a couple of years ago.  Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the 
same sentence.  Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 
month stage..
 


Come down and visit some of our mesh networks if you'd like. Mesh may be 
a over-hyped buzzword not unlike WiMAX, but that doesn't mean the 
technology is not without merit.


Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality. 
 


No you can't. P2P and P2MP systems are static layer 2 and layer 3 
architectures where as a mesh system can be dynamic at both layer 2 and 
layer 3.


Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, 
I believe, much better stability. 


Functionally, both systems deliver data, but flexibility is higher with 
mesh, scalability could be better or worse depending on the network, and 
stability is almost never a function of architecture.


With all the above being stated, mesh is easy to achieve and hard to get 
right. Don't even bother with WDS or other poor man's mesh. If you can't 
afford to do mesh right, don't; stick with P2MP. Folks can argue the 
multiple radio issue as much as they want in regard to mesh and Tropos 
with its single radio nodes continue to run circles around everyone 
else. We have deployed Tropos and while we don't like certain aspects 
about them, I can tell you without a doubt that they are the most well 
engineered mesh nodes I have ever encountered.


With that being said, we are now deploying multiple radio mesh nodes 
because the requirements of our project demand them. However, the amount 
of engineering that goes into making a multiple radio mesh work rivals 
and some would say exceeds that of a cellular network.


In short, mesh sounds good in theory, mesh is easy to create 
technically, but in practice, in the field, mesh is hard to get right 
unless you have a product like Tropos that does it all for you.


-Matt

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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Tom DeReggi]

No the problem with Mesh is it adds many hops to the path, therefore adding 
significant latency, and inability to control QOS, or identify where the QOS 
lies. Self interference is impossible to avoid without killing every other 
in town at the same time.



routing...


Well that brings nother issues up. Adding complexity where it is not needed 
in many cases. There is reliabity added by doing it at layer2. Fewer 
compenent to fail and manage. There is a benefit to centralized management 
and configuration, when scaling large projects.  When end users have routers 
at the DMarc, there is often little need to route, as the path is rarely 
peer to peer in nature, and all tend to follow the path to backbone.  Not 
that I'm not saying Routing doesn;t have its importance to be implemented at 
the right strategic places. Its jsut not needed every hop along the path. 
There are automated routing tasks like RIP and OSPF, or simlar, but its 
awefully risky allowing route advertizing to the front edge of ones network, 
or the consumer radio to have the abilty to advertise routes. Layer2 virtual 
circuits and VPN, are also often adequate solution to solve problems of 
deployment.


The Super cell gives the ISP better central control and simplicity.

Mesh has its purpose, but as a last resort in my opinion. When a Super cell 
is unable to reach the clientel.  But I'd argue many samll repeater cells is 
a better way to go, so reliabilty and shortest path can be engineered into 
every site.   When paths from point A to point B change automatically, its 
difficult to loose control of performance levels an individual may have at 
one point in time over another. QOS is near impossible to guarantee on MESH. 
I look at MESH as a Best effort service, and it should be deployed only when 
thatlevel of service isrequired. Reliability and QOS is all about creating 
shortest number of hops, with most direct solid links.  Just my opinion. 
We'll see what the Muni Mesh network brings to the table after their many 
future case studies to come.  Its the Mesh companies that are the ones 
pushing it,and in their eye.  The reason has to do with assets not 
technology.  Muni's don;t own the roof tops and towers. They own the street 
poles.  Mesh works from the Street poles. MESH is a way to intiate a 
project, without third parties getting in the way. The Muni controls the 
assets required for the Technology to pull off its job. Its building 
management companies and owners that control the expansion of Broadband in 
the Super Cell.


Muni has two choices... Go Mesh, or partner with the Local WISP, that 
already own the rights to the roof tops and spectrum, toguarantee quick 
progress.  There are some exceptions to this, as many Muni's control water 
towers, if they are strategically located.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment


I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you
would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives
the same functionality.  Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are
fine because that is what people have been building since forever.

Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks.  Is that the
problem you see?

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

First off, don't.  Mesh is all the rage today.  Just like hotspots were a
couple of years ago.  Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same
sentence.  Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month
stage..

Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality.

Use a dedicated backhaul system.  Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick
your high end ptmp system.  Use that to feed micro cell wifi deployments
that are down at street level.

Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I
believe, much better stability.

That help?
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment
sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run
my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




- Original Message -
From: ISPlists
To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List'
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment.  I have a
small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and 
I'm

thinking of using mesh technology.  Any ideas would be great.

Thanks,
Steve




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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Lonnie Nunweiler]

We released the code yesterday as part of our v3 for the WAR boards. 
The beta part is mostly for the Atheros driver which continues to get
tweaks and add-ons.

We have been testing and playing with mesh since Fall 2005.  We felt
it was ready for prime time.

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Mario Pommier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lonnie,
> when will your radios support mesh, as described in your previous post?
>
> M
>
>
> Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:
> I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you
would
> not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives
the same
> functionality. Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are
fine because that
> is what people have been building since forever.

Mesh handles routing
> issues and requires routed networks. Is that the
problem you
> see?

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> First off, don't. Mesh is all the rage today. Just like hotspots were
> a
couple of years ago. Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the
> same
sentence. Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12
> month
stage..

Having said that, you can still give them the same
> functionality.

Use a dedicated backhaul system. Trango, Airaya, Canopy,
> Alvarion, pick
your high end ptmp system. Use that to feed micro cell wifi
> deployments
that are down at street level.

Same functionality, greater
> flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I
believe, much better
> stability.

That help?
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment
sales
(408) 907-6910
> (Vonage) Consulting services
42846865 (icq) And I run
my own
> wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net
> meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




-
> Original Message -
From: ISPlists
To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ;
> 'WISPA General List'
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject:
> [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh
> equipment. I have a
small town that wants to provide Internet access to the
> entire town and I'm
thinking of using mesh technology. Any ideas would be
> great.

Thanks,
Steve




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http://www.star-os.com/
>
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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Lonnie Nunweiler]

I am not disputing that at all.  What I was saying that mesh is a
routing mechanism and as such is used on the backhaul and microcell to
tie them together.  As such it is far superior to a backhaul and
microcell approach without mesh routing.  That is all I was trying to
say.

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, chris cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The primary challenge from my experience is LOS issues on the link side.
> You can solve this by deploying more nodes or more injection points
> according to design and budget. The new 900 Mhz cards look interesting
> to link those few out of the way nodes.
>
> chris
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:52 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
>
> I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you
> would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives
> the same functionality.  Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are
> fine because that is what people have been building since forever.
>
> Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks.  Is that the
> problem you see?
>
> Lonnie
>
> On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > First off, don't.  Mesh is all the rage today.  Just like hotspots
> were a
> > couple of years ago.  Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same
> > sentence.  Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month
> > stage..
> >
> > Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality.
> >
> > Use a dedicated backhaul system.  Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion,
> pick
> > your high end ptmp system.  Use that to feed micro cell wifi
> deployments
> > that are down at street level.
> >
> > Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and,
> I
> > believe, much better stability.
> >
> > That help?
> > Marlon
> > (509) 982-2181   Equipment
> > sales
> > (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> > 42846865 (icq)And I run
> > my own wisp!
> > 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
> > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> > www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: ISPlists
> > To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List'
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM
> > Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
> >
> > Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment.  I have
> a
> > small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town
> and I'm
> > thinking of using mesh technology.  Any ideas would be great.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Steve
> >
> > 
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
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RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Judge Judy

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cliff Leboeuf
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

Jory,

To me, it depends on a few things...

1. Do you have a written contract that has a term commitment and
the cancellation fees clearly stated?
2. If you do, is it amount worth pursuing for collections based
on the risk, money and time you will spend?
3. If you do pursue, and win, is the customer capable of paying
the judgment?

I have been successful in enforcing a number of my contracts through
small claims court.

- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jory Privett
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:41 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract?
If 
someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their 
contract?  Any Ideas or suggestions?

Jory Privett
WCCS


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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Mario Pommier]

Lonnie,
    when will your radios support mesh, as described in your previous
post?

M

Lonnie Nunweiler wrote:

  I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you
would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives
the same functionality.  Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are
fine because that is what people have been building since forever.

Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks.  Is that the
problem you see?

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
First off, don't.  Mesh is all the rage today.  Just like hotspots were a
couple of years ago.  Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same
sentence.  Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month
stage..

Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality.

Use a dedicated backhaul system.  Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick
your high end ptmp system.  Use that to feed micro cell wifi deployments
that are down at street level.

Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I
believe, much better stability.

That help?
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment
sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run
my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




- Original Message -
From: ISPlists
To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List'
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment.  I have a
small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and I'm
thinking of using mesh technology.  Any ideas would be great.

Thanks,
Steve




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--
Lonnie Nunweiler
Valemount Networks Corporation
http://www.star-os.com/
  



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RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

[chris cooper]

We usually compile them and send em to an attorney that sends out 1
nastygram form letter. We get some $$ back that way.  I have always
functioned under the assumption that folks who don't pay their bills
etc. aren't too likely to bring it up in public.
Since we are all bound to have some amount of bad debt, I wonder if it
would work to compile it all and sell the whole book of debt to a
factoring house?

Chris Cooper
Intelliwave

2. If you do, is it amount worth pursuing for collections based
on the risk, money and time you will spend?
3. If you do pursue, and win, is the customer capable of paying
the judgment?

I have been successful in enforcing a number of my contracts through
small claims court.



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RE: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[chris cooper]

The primary challenge from my experience is LOS issues on the link side.
You can solve this by deploying more nodes or more injection points
according to design and budget. The new 900 Mhz cards look interesting
to link those few out of the way nodes.

chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you
would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives
the same functionality.  Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are
fine because that is what people have been building since forever.

Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks.  Is that the
problem you see?

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> First off, don't.  Mesh is all the rage today.  Just like hotspots
were a
> couple of years ago.  Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same
> sentence.  Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month
> stage..
>
> Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality.
>
> Use a dedicated backhaul system.  Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion,
pick
> your high end ptmp system.  Use that to feed micro cell wifi
deployments
> that are down at street level.
>
> Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and,
I
> believe, much better stability.
>
> That help?
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181   Equipment
> sales
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)And I run
> my own wisp!
> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: ISPlists
> To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List'
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
>
> Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment.  I have
a
> small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town
and I'm
> thinking of using mesh technology.  Any ideas would be great.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
> 
>
>
> --
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>
>
>


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Valemount Networks Corporation
http://www.star-os.com/
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RE: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

[Cliff Leboeuf]

Jory,

To me, it depends on a few things...

1. Do you have a written contract that has a term commitment and
the cancellation fees clearly stated?
2. If you do, is it amount worth pursuing for collections based
on the risk, money and time you will spend?
3. If you do pursue, and win, is the customer capable of paying
the judgment?

I have been successful in enforcing a number of my contracts through
small claims court.

- Cliff


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jory Privett
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:41 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract?
If 
someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their 
contract?  Any Ideas or suggestions?

Jory Privett
WCCS


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Re: [WISPA] Terms and Contracts

[JohnnyO]

Is this a residential customer ? Is it worth the bad advertising on your part to pursue it ? What were their reasons for cancelling ? We don't even have a contract in place any longer. We have a TOS and an acceptable use policy in place but no need to waste our time with the extra paperwork for useless contracts.

If you provide a high level of service and treat your customers right, why would they leave ? If it's for price - tell them good luck - Chances are they will be back if they are "service" oriented and not "price" driven.

JohnnyO

On Thu, 2006-02-23 at 11:41 -0600, Jory Privett wrote:


I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract?  If 
someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their 
contract?  Any Ideas or suggestions?

Jory Privett
WCCS






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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Lonnie Nunweiler]

I guess you'll have to learn more about Mesh because if you did you
would not say that a dedicated backhaul and microcell approach gives
the same functionality.  Sure a dedicated backhaul and microcell are
fine because that is what people have been building since forever.

Mesh handles routing issues and requires routed networks.  Is that the
problem you see?

Lonnie

On 2/23/06, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> First off, don't.  Mesh is all the rage today.  Just like hotspots were a
> couple of years ago.  Mesh and muni are often rolled out in the same
> sentence.  Show me ONE that's working correctly past the 6 to 12 month
> stage..
>
> Having said that, you can still give them the same functionality.
>
> Use a dedicated backhaul system.  Trango, Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick
> your high end ptmp system.  Use that to feed micro cell wifi deployments
> that are down at street level.
>
> Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH better scalability and, I
> believe, much better stability.
>
> That help?
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181   Equipment
> sales
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)And I run
> my own wisp!
> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: ISPlists
> To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com ; 'WISPA General List'
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
>
> Does anyone have a good recommendation on some Mesh equipment.  I have a
> small town that wants to provide Internet access to the entire town and I'm
> thinking of using mesh technology.  Any ideas would be great.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
> 
>
>
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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>
>
>


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Valemount Networks Corporation
http://www.star-os.com/
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RE: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st

[Kurt Fankhauser]

That $10,000 fine is a standard FCC violation fine and can apply to 
almost any situation where a violation has occurred. Now I am NOT 
condoning violating FCC rules but these are the facts and we have to 
face it. When was the last time someone was fined for being over EIRP 
limits, NEVER!

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
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[WISPA] Terms and Contracts

[Jory Privett]

I was just wondering how a small WISP goes about enforcing a contract?  If 
someone cancels early what actions do I have available to enforce their 
contract?  Any Ideas or suggestions?

Jory Privett
WCCS


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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

First off, don't.  Mesh is all the rage 
today.  Just like hotspots were a couple of years ago.  Mesh and muni 
are often rolled out in the same sentence.  Show me ONE that's working 
correctly past the 6 to 12 month stage..
 
Having said that, you can still give them the same 
functionality.  
 
Use a dedicated backhaul system.  Trango, 
Airaya, Canopy, Alvarion, pick your high end ptmp system.  Use that to feed 
micro cell wifi deployments that are down at street level.
 
Same functionality, greater flexibility, MUCH 
better scalability and, I believe, much better stability.
 
That help?
Marlon(509) 
982-2181   
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage)    
Consulting services42846865 
(icq)    
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  ISPlists 
  To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com 
  ; 'WISPA General 
  List' 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:32 
  PM
  Subject: [WISPA] Mesh Equipment
  
  Does anyone have a good recommendation on some 
  Mesh equipment.  I have a small town that wants to provide Internet 
  access to the entire town and I'm thinking of using mesh technology.  Any 
  ideas would be great.
   
  Thanks,
  Steve
  
  

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Re: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

Yeah.  Cheap tools always come to roost sooner or later.  Usually sooner and 
at a very bad time!  Grin


Now if I could just find a good cable tester at $5.  heheheheh

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Pete Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks



Welcome back to the list, Roger.

Marlon,

I had a crimper like that with a crack in it. Poor crimps kept biting me 
in the posterior, till I bought one of these:


http://www.all-spec.com/1/viewitem/30-496/ALLSPEC/prodinfo/allspecsession=1393318938D195632&promoid=&w3path=vend

I got mine locally from a electrician supply place, but approx that price. 
The end goes in closer to the axis of the lever as cheaper crimpers, so 
you crimp twice as hard with less effort, and there is a "stop" you can 
feel when you have crimped hard enough. After using this one, I am through 
buying $15-$20 crimpers like this one: 
http://www.cablesnmor.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=272 or even 
the $25 ones Radioshack sells.


Pete Davis
NoDial.net

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

dude!

We're working on getting people to fill out the fcc forms.  We're hunting 
for new spectrum (current fight is for unused tv spectrum).  Today I 
checked on the 5.4 band.  It's to the spell check the certification docs 
phase. We're "very close" on that one!  Also checked on 3650 and tv white 
spaces (at the fcc), nothing new to report at this time.


As for a really fun one..  Yesterday I found out that there's a 
hairline crack on my cat5 crimper.  It's not pushing the connectors all 
of the way down.  Don't know if it's been that way for 2 days, 2 months 
or 2 years.  I do know that I've got a lot, maybe hundreds, of 
connections that aren't completely crimped!  Guess I'll be finding them 
over the next few years. sigh


Great to see ya here.  Hope you stick around man.  For an old man like 
you, it's probably a good thing you are spending a lot of time near 
hospitals! roflol


That help?
marlon

- Original Message - From: "Roger Boggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:47 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks



Bored to tears in a hotel room outside of Richmond, VA so I thought I'd
jump onto this list and see who's here and what we're talking about
lately.  Haven't been doing much outdoor wireless stuff for more than a 
year

now..  All indoor - mostly in hospitals and warehouses in support of
RFID installations..

Just seeing what's hot and what's not these days.

Carry on.

Roger Boggs

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Re: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

OK, this gets a bit sticky for me  I work 
on the side as a sales geek for electro-comm and therefore sell this gear.  
Apply appropriate grain of salt.
 
*I* use this gear in my network because it's priced 
well and it works.  They get away with such low pricing because it's using 
the Atheros chip set.  But it's NOT wifi.  The guys at Airaya put 
their own firmware on the chip.  Very cool stuff.
 
The new gear just works.  It's got some cool 
features too.  If you don't need to go really fast you can adjust your 
bandwidth used, I think down to 10 mhz.  I don't remember all of the 
specs.  The antenna that they send with the kit are of great quality and 
have good solid mounting kits.
 
These days they are very big in the 4.9 space (same 
radios, different programming) and are ready to open up 5.4 as soon as it's 
allowed (which I was told by the FCC a couple of days ago is VERY, VERY 
close).
 
http://www.airaya.com/
 
That help?
Marlon(509) 
982-2181   
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage)    
Consulting services42846865 
(icq)    
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:05 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 
  7000
  
  
  Whats the deal n the 
  airaya stuff? Are they making the 5.3 stuff? What are the 
  specs?
   
  
  Dan 
  MetcalfWireless Broadband Systemswww.wbisp.com781-846-6798  ext 
  6201[EMAIL PROTECTED]support: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  
  
  
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
  Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:04 
  AMTo: WISPA General 
  ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] 
  Solectek Skyway 7000
   
  
  Hiya Matt,
  
   
  
  I used to sell Solectek 
  gear.  Years ago.  It was a good company with good gear as I 
  recall.  If you are up and running and have a good reputation in your 
  market it never hurts to try new toys.
  
   
  
  These days most of the gear I'm 
  buying for links like that comes from Airaya.  It's great stuff and I 
  LOVE the 5.3 band!
  
   
  
  laters,
  
  Marlon(509) 
  982-2181   
  Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
  (Vonage)    
  Consulting services42846865 
  (icq)    
  And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
   
  
   
  

- Original Message - 


From: Matt Glaves 


To: wireless@wispa.org 


Sent: 
Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:49 PM

Subject: [WISPA] 
Solectek Skyway 7000

 
I have never used the Solectek 
equipment and am looking at either trying their Skyway 7101 or the Trango 
Atlas for some short building to building links.  I have seen enough 
favorable posts about the Atlas to know plenty of you are using it 
successfully – although I sure wish I could get one of their sales folks to 
return a phone call.  Leave a message about buying 250 CPEs and no one 
calls back  Anyway J
 
I would like to get opinions on 
the Skyway 7000.  This would be for very short <.5 mile links 
between buildings.  We would normally use Terabeam/Proxim systems but 
are looking for alternatives with similar capabilities and 20-40% lower 
cost.  Any info/opinions on reliability and real world throughput would 
be great.
 
Thanks,
Matt
 



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RE: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000

[Charles Wu]

Title: Message



Have 
you looked at Airaya's web site?
 
It's 
pretty informative: http://www.airaya.com/products/p2m.asp
 
-Charles
---WiNOG Austin, TXMarch 
13-15, 2006http://www.winog.com 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:05 
  AMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: RE: [WISPA] Solectek 
  Skyway 7000
  
  Whats the deal n the 
  airaya stuff? Are they making the 5.3 stuff? What are the 
  specs?
   
  
  Dan 
  MetcalfWireless Broadband Systemswww.wbisp.com781-846-6798  ext 
  6201[EMAIL PROTECTED]support: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 
  982-2181Sent: Thursday, 
  February 23, 2006 11:04 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 
  7000
   
  
  Hiya Matt,
  
   
  
  I used to sell Solectek 
  gear.  Years ago.  It was a good company with good gear as I 
  recall.  If you are up and running and have a good reputation in your 
  market it never hurts to try new toys.
  
   
  
  These days most of the gear I'm 
  buying for links like that comes from Airaya.  It's great stuff and I 
  LOVE the 5.3 band!
  
   
  
  laters,
  
  Marlon(509) 
  982-2181   
  Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
  (Vonage)    
  Consulting services42846865 
  (icq)    
  And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
   
  
   
  

- Original Message - 


From: Matt Glaves 


To: wireless@wispa.org 


Sent: 
Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:49 PM

Subject: [WISPA] 
Solectek Skyway 7000

 
I have never used the Solectek 
equipment and am looking at either trying their Skyway 7101 or the Trango 
Atlas for some short building to building links.  I have seen enough 
favorable posts about the Atlas to know plenty of you are using it 
successfully – although I sure wish I could get one of their sales folks to 
return a phone call.  Leave a message about buying 250 CPEs and no one 
calls back  Anyway J
 
I would like to get opinions on 
the Skyway 7000.  This would be for very short <.5 mile links 
between buildings.  We would normally use Terabeam/Proxim systems but 
are looking for alternatives with similar capabilities and 20-40% lower 
cost.  Any info/opinions on reliability and real world throughput would 
be great.
 
Thanks,
Matt
 



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[WISPA] Have a referal for service in S.C.

[Victoria Proffer]

Anyone cover Orangeburg, S.C.?

Hit me offlist.

Victoria Proffer
www.StLouisBroadBand.com
314-974-5600

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[WISPA] Should we work to change some FCC rules? was--Fw: Latest WISP FCC visit

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

Hi All,

I was just going through some old stuff on my puter and bumped into this 
post from Tom.


Buried in there is a rehash of the idea of a real FCC recognized 
professional installer.


Is WISPA in a position to push for this?  Can we come up with a 
certification program?  Can we take on the role of keeping pace with the new 
rules etc. for recertification's etc.?


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Marlon Schafer (509-982-2181)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Conversations 
over a new WISP Trade Organization" 

Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: Latest WISP FCC visit



Marlon,

Overall you made a good summarry, but you are somewhat missing the boat on
your end comments.
Basically, the gist of what I got was...

The FCC didn't protest the fact that we could make an antenna equivellent 
to

a Vivato using off the shelf components, nor that we need more power.
They just couldn't allow the free public to go around makeing their own
changes, its to hard to inforce accuracy of engineering decissions.

Their point was that someone had to be accountable.  The FCC relaxed the
rules, by offloading some of the FCC's responsibilities off to the
Manufacturer and giving them more control for authorizing certification 
and

engineering validitiy.  But the Manufacturer NOW TAKES RESPONSIBILITY for
the accuracy of its decission to call an antenna certified and approved. 
In

other the Manufacturer assumes liability.

Marlon, what you were asking for was to use more power under certain
cercumstances.  And the FCC was asking how are they going to have
accountability if that was allowed.
As of today, the FCC rules, allow you to gather a bunch of off the shelf
rules, call your self a manufacturer, and send in a request to certify 
that

group of antennas as a single item for certification.  That way a FCC
certification gets tied to that solution.

What we ran against is that the freedom would not be given to an third 
party

enginner or consultant or end user to make that judgement or bypass the
rules.

So even if we came up with an idea of what cercumstances we should be
allowed to use more power, the solution to do so would still need to be
certified by the manufacturer.

The FCC was very responsive because they suggested that they had an open
door for a proposal to consider, and I believe they were sincere.  I
suggesed that what we needed, was a program (as has been suggested for 
years
by Marlon) that allowed third party designers, expert, and engineers to 
have

flexibility to innovate, and make decissions, and the only way that that
could happen would be if in parallel it also was a program to hold the 
thrid

party engineer accountable for their decission.

I think what we need is a proposal  of how we think the  certified 
engineer

program could work.   For example, under basic rules, no certification
needed.  However, third party engineers could get licenses that registered
them as WISP engineers, and their name and license gets put on the table
when they design a system.  The engineer becomes responsible, and if the 
FCC

inspects a WISP's cell site, and finds it not done correctly, then the
engineer becomes liable.  And when we take liability, we gain the right to
innovate and make substitutions.

The certified engineer shouldn't be about how much training the engineer
needs to get, but more about the liability that they are willing to signup
for.  How do we stop abuse, and detect abuse, if the rules get relaxed?
Thats what the FCC wants the proposal for.

I don't protest that we need more power in rural areas where there will be
little harm in giving it.  But how do we do it?  Maybe the answer needs to
revolve arounf down tilt, and coverage radius.  For every X degree of
downtilt added to the antenna, X db increase can be used.   Or maybe we 
have
to prove that our area has geograpghical ubstructions to prevent the 
spread
of interference outside of our area, if higher power is used.  To use 
higher

power, make us submit proof that we performed a study verifying that we
could not detect our signal out side a certain radius at a certain 
strength.
For example, in a valley between mountains on all side, high power could 
be

used, because the mountains would block the RF from leaving the area.  Or
maybe we are allowed, if the area is rated at a certain density level for
trees and tree height.  Or maybe we create a list, that tracks people that
bend the rules, with justification meeting a criteria.  For example, the
default WISP operating under basic rules, has no obligation to report its
deployment.  However, any WISP that wants to bend the rules

Re: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks

[Tom DeReggi]

Its always good to hear a chime in from one of the original early guys in 
the game, now and then.

Lots of stuff happening here in WISP land.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Roger Boggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:15 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Good Evening Folks



This time of year, I don't miss standing around on rooftops one bit...

I'll probably be the one doing all the knowledge absorption nowadays..

Thanks Rick.  Thought I'd see a few names I hadn't seen/heard in a while 
over here...


At 10:54 PM 2/21/2006, you wrote:


Welcome Roger!  Sounds like a much warmer environment than what some of us
work in during the winter.  Your welcome to stay around for awhile.  We
welcome your experienced input.

Rick Harnish


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Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

I don't remember if it was this list or isp-wireless that talked about this 
a bit more specifically.


In a nutshell, the fine for not filling it out is up to $10,000 as I read 
it.


Again, however, the biggest reason for us to fill this out is political. 
They need to know that when someone from the wisp industry, and wispa 
specifically, says something, we're not just talking about 400 operators and 
4000 subscribers..


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st



On all due respectIt didn't answer the question..

-B-






Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


Hi All,

For those that think it's no big deal to not fill this out.  Please 
read the note below from Ellen Burton with the FCC.  She's in charge of 
this form.


Guys, they are making this as easy as they can for us.  I think we have 
nothing to gain and much to loose by being a PITA.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Ellen Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st


See #20 in the set of Form 477 FAQs that's available at
http://www.fcc.gov/broadband/broadband_data_faq.html:

20. Are there penalties for not filing Form 477?

Entities that are required to file Form 477 but fail to do so may be
subject to the enforcement provisions of the Communications Act and any
other applicable law.  In particular, the Commission has authority
pursuant to sections 502 and 503 of the Communications Act to enforce
compliance by fine or forfeiture.

-Original Message-
From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:30 PM
To: Ellen Burton
Subject: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st

Hiya Ellen,

Remember when I asked what the penalty is for not filing the 477?  Got
an
answer for me yet?

thanks!
marlon

- Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" ; "Marlon Schafer
(509-982-2181)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st



OK...OK.

I agree that all should probably file.  I have several partners so I


am


not the only one to decide so I will leave it at that as it pertains


to my


WISP entity.

BUT...What is the penalty for not filing  Does anyone know???


Can


we get an official statement for this situation? Are there fines?
Penalty's?? Do you get a nasty gram??  Do they not send me a xmas card




next year??  What???

It may help bring more compliance or it may result in less filings.
Either way I think the membership should know.

Marlon...How about asking some of your contacts.

-B-






--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

Righto.  It's now 1 subscriber not 
250.
 
Marlon(509) 
982-2181   
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage)    
Consulting services42846865 
(icq)    
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mario 
  Pommier 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:58 
  AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due 
  March 1st
  hmm, seems like I was reding the old form from Year 
  2,000.Mario Pommier wrote: 
  If I 
understand correctly, any WISP with less than 250 customers in a given state 
does not need to file.The reporting threshold for broadband 
reporting is facilities-based firms that provide at least 250 one-way or 
two-way broadband (in excess of 200 kilobits per second) service lines or 
wireless channels in a given state, or have at least 250 one-way or two-way 
broadband customers in a given state.Correct?If so, I don't 
understand the sense of setting up a threshold like this 
one.MarioBob Moldashel wrote: 
On all due 
  respectIt didn't answer the question.. -B- 
  Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 
  Hi All, For those that think it's no big 
deal to not fill this out.  Please read the note below from 
Ellen Burton with the FCC.  She's in charge of this form. 
Guys, they are making this as easy as they can for us.  I 
think we have nothing to gain and much to loose by being a PITA. 
laters, Marlon (509) 
982-2181   
Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 
(Vonage)    
Consulting services 42846865 
(icq)    
And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless 
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam 
- Original Message - From: "Ellen Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:44 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] 
FCC Form 477 Due March 1st See #20 in the set of Form 477 
FAQs that's available at http://www.fcc.gov/broadband/broadband_data_faq.html: 
20. Are there penalties for not filing Form 477? 
Entities that are required to file Form 477 but fail to do so 
may be subject to the enforcement provisions of the Communications 
Act and any other applicable law.  In particular, the 
Commission has authority pursuant to sections 502 and 503 of the 
Communications Act to enforce compliance by fine or forfeiture. 
-Original Message- From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:30 PM To: Ellen Burton 
Subject: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st Hiya Ellen, 
Remember when I asked what the penalty is for not filing the 
477?  Got an answer for me yet? thanks! marlon 
- Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
"WISPA General List" ; "Marlon 
Schafer (509-982-2181)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 
FCC Form 477 Due March 1st 
OK...OK. I agree that all should 
  probably file.  I have several partners so I 
am 
not the only one to decide so I will leave it 
  at that as it pertains to my 
WISP entity. BUT...What is the 
  penalty for not filing  Does anyone know??? 
Can 
we get an official statement for this 
  situation? Are there fines? Penalty's?? Do you get a nasty 
  gram??  Do they not send me a xmas card 
next year??  What??? It may help 
  bring more compliance or it may result in less filings. Either way 
  I think the membership should know. Marlon...How about asking 
  some of your contacts. -B- 
  
  
  

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Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

That was pretty much my thought.  I can do a 
good job on the crimps (as long as I don't have a broken crimper, sigh).  

 
The problem is doing the crimps when it's 10* with 
a 20mph breeze blowing.  That's when it gets really hard to keep those 
wires in the right order while you try to push them into the crimp.
 
laters,
Marlon(509) 
982-2181   
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage)    
Consulting services42846865 
(icq)    
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  JohnnyO 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:25 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 
  crimpers
  I'm the one who turned Rick and many others onto these Marlon - 
  We've been using them for almost 3yrs. We have had 1 truck roll due to a bad 
  crimp in this amount of time. Yes they are expensive if you look at it on a 
  per crimp basis - but what is $1.10 per install worth to you in time / 
  frustration / a professional crimp ?I buy these in bulk in lots of 
  10,000 at a time. If anyone wants to purchase some ends for these I can prob 
  save you $15.00 per 300pack and $10.00 on the tool.JohnnyOOn 
  Wed, 2006-02-22 at 12:22 -0500, Rick Smith wrote: 
  they're EZ RJ45 crimpers / ends.  and yeah, they're around 50 - 70 cents PER CONNECTOR.

BUT I'll tell you whatsince I bought them, I've NEVER remade a cable, NOR have I
had to use a cable tester...

I won't go back now... actually feel helpless to borrow someone else's crimpers / ends


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
> That's it.  Thanks!
> 
> Do you really pay $.60 per connector???  Maybe it's not as nice of a 
> tool as I thought
> 
> laters,
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Aubrey Wells" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers
> 
> 
>> http://www.happcontrols.com/electrical_supplies/92060900.htm
>>
>> ---
>> Aubrey Wells
>> One Ring Networks
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> o: (404) 601.1407
>> f: (404) 601.1408
>> c: (770) 356.9767
>>
>>
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a crimper I saw someone talk about.  It uses special 
>>> rj45 connectors that allow the cable to go through the end.  Then the 
>>> crimper crimps and cuts to length at the same time.
>>>
>>> Anyone know what it's called and where to get the connectors and the 
>>> crimper?
>>>
>>> thanks!
>>>
>>> Marlon
>>> (509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
>>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
>>> 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
>>> 64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
>>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
>>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> -- 
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>>
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>>
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>>
> 

  
  

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RE: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000

[danlist]

Whats the deal n the airaya stuff? Are they
making the 5.3 stuff? What are the specs?

 



Dan Metcalf
Wireless Broadband Systems
www.wbisp.com
781-846-6798  ext 6201
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
support: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 













From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509)
982-2181
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006
11:04 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Solectek
Skyway 7000



 



Hiya Matt,





 





I used to sell Solectek gear.  Years ago.  It was
a good company with good gear as I recall.  If you are up and running and
have a good reputation in your market it never hurts to try new toys.





 





These days most of the gear I'm buying for links like that
comes from Airaya.  It's great stuff and I LOVE the 5.3 band!





 





laters,





Marlon
(509)
982-2181  
Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910
(Vonage)   
Consulting services
42846865 (icq)   
And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam





 






 







- Original Message - 





From: Matt Glaves 





To: wireless@wispa.org






Sent: Wednesday,
February 22, 2006 6:49 PM





Subject: [WISPA] Solectek
Skyway 7000





 



I have never used the Solectek equipment and am looking at
either trying their Skyway 7101 or the Trango Atlas for some short building to
building links.  I have seen enough favorable posts about the Atlas to
know plenty of you are using it successfully – although I sure wish I
could get one of their sales folks to return a phone call.  Leave a
message about buying 250 CPEs and no one calls back  Anyway J

 

I would like to get opinions on the Skyway 7000.  This
would be for very short <.5 mile links between buildings.  We would
normally use Terabeam/Proxim systems but are looking for alternatives with
similar capabilities and 20-40% lower cost.  Any info/opinions on
reliability and real world throughput would be great.

 

Thanks,

Matt

 







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Re: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 7000

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

Hiya Matt,
 
I used to sell Solectek gear.  Years 
ago.  It was a good company with good gear as I recall.  If you are up 
and running and have a good reputation in your market it never hurts to try new 
toys.
 
These days most of the gear I'm buying for links 
like that comes from Airaya.  It's great stuff and I LOVE the 5.3 
band!
 
laters,
Marlon(509) 
982-2181   
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage)    
Consulting services42846865 
(icq)    
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Matt Glaves 
  To: wireless@wispa.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:49 
  PM
  Subject: [WISPA] Solectek Skyway 
  7000
  
  
  I have never used the Solectek 
  equipment and am looking at either trying their Skyway 7101 or the Trango 
  Atlas for some short building to building links.  I have seen enough 
  favorable posts about the Atlas to know plenty of you are using it 
  successfully – although I sure wish I could get one of their sales folks to 
  return a phone call.  Leave a message about buying 250 CPEs and no one 
  calls back  Anyway J
   
  I would like to get opinions on 
  the Skyway 7000.  This would be for very short <.5 mile links between 
  buildings.  We would normally use Terabeam/Proxim systems but are looking 
  for alternatives with similar capabilities and 20-40% lower cost.  Any 
  info/opinions on reliability and real world throughput would be 
  great.
   
  Thanks,
  Matt
   
  
  

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Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st

[Mario Pommier]

hmm, seems like I was reding the old form from Year 2,000.


Mario Pommier wrote:

  
If I understand correctly, any WISP with less than 250 customers in a
given state does not need to file.
  
   The reporting threshold for broadband reporting is
facilities-based
firms that provide at least 250 one-way or two-way broadband (in excess
of 200 kilobits per second) service lines or wireless channels in a
given state, or have at least 250 one-way or two-way broadband
customers in a given state.
  
Correct?
If so, I don't understand the sense of setting up a threshold like this
one.
  
Mario
  
  
Bob Moldashel wrote:
  On all
due
respectIt didn't answer the question.. 

-B- 



Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: 

Hi All, 
  
For those that think it's no big deal to not fill this out.  Please
read the note below from Ellen Burton with the FCC.  She's in charge of
this form. 
  
Guys, they are making this as easy as they can for us.  I think we have
nothing to gain and much to loose by being a PITA. 
  
laters, 
Marlon 
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales 
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)    Consulting services 
42846865 (icq)    And I run my own
wisp! 
64.146.146.12 (net meeting) 
  www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
  
  www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
  
  
  
  
- Original Message - From: "Ellen Burton"
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:44 AM 
Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st 
  
  
See #20 in the set of Form 477 FAQs that's available at 
  http://www.fcc.gov/broadband/broadband_data_faq.html:
  
  
20. Are there penalties for not filing Form 477? 
  
Entities that are required to file Form 477 but fail to do so may be 
subject to the enforcement provisions of the Communications Act and any
  
other applicable law.  In particular, the Commission has authority 
pursuant to sections 502 and 503 of the Communications Act to enforce 
compliance by fine or forfeiture. 
  
-Original Message- 
From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:30 PM 
To: Ellen Burton 
Subject: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st 
  
Hiya Ellen, 
  
Remember when I asked what the penalty is for not filing the 477?  Got 
an 
answer for me yet? 
  
thanks! 
marlon 
  
- Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel"
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  
To: "WISPA General List" ;
"Marlon Schafer 
(509-982-2181)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:20 PM 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st 
  
  
  OK...OK. 

I agree that all should probably file.  I have several partners so I 
  
  
am 
  
  not the only one to decide so I will
leave
it at that as it pertains 
  
  
to my 
  
  WISP entity. 

BUT...What is the penalty for not filing  Does anyone know??? 
  
  
Can 
  
  we get an official statement for this
situation? Are there fines? 
Penalty's?? Do you get a nasty gram??  Do they not send me a xmas card 
  
  
  
  next year??  What??? 

It may help bring more compliance or it may result in less filings. 
Either way I think the membership should know. 

Marlon...How about asking some of your contacts. 

-B- 

  
  



  



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Re: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st

[Mario Pommier]

If I understand correctly, any WISP with less than 250 customers in a
given state does not need to file.

 The reporting threshold for broadband reporting is facilities-based
firms that provide at least 250 one-way or two-way broadband (in excess
of 200 kilobits per second) service lines or wireless channels in a
given state, or have at least 250 one-way or two-way broadband
customers in a given state.

Correct?
If so, I don't understand the sense of setting up a threshold like this
one.

Mario


Bob Moldashel wrote:
On all due
respectIt didn't answer the question..
  
  
-B-
  
  
  
  
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
  
  
  Hi All,


For those that think it's no big deal to not fill this out.  Please
read the note below from Ellen Burton with the FCC.  She's in charge of
this form.


Guys, they are making this as easy as they can for us.  I think we have
nothing to gain and much to loose by being a PITA.


laters,

Marlon

(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales

(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)    Consulting services

42846865 (icq)    And I run my own
wisp!

64.146.146.12 (net meeting)

www.odessaoffice.com/wireless

www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam




- Original Message - From: "Ellen Burton"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:44 AM

Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st



See #20 in the set of Form 477 FAQs that's available at

http://www.fcc.gov/broadband/broadband_data_faq.html:


20. Are there penalties for not filing Form 477?


Entities that are required to file Form 477 but fail to do so may be

subject to the enforcement provisions of the Communications Act and any

other applicable law.  In particular, the Commission has authority

pursuant to sections 502 and 503 of the Communications Act to enforce

compliance by fine or forfeiture.


-Original Message-

From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:30 PM

To: Ellen Burton

Subject: Fw: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st


Hiya Ellen,


Remember when I asked what the penalty is for not filing the 477?  Got

an

answer for me yet?


thanks!

marlon


- Original Message - From: "Bob Moldashel"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" ; "Marlon Schafer

(509-982-2181)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:20 PM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Form 477 Due March 1st



OK...OK.
  
  
I agree that all should probably file.  I have several partners so I
  


am


not the only one to decide so I will leave
it at that as it pertains
  


to my


WISP entity.
  
  
BUT...What is the penalty for not filing  Does anyone know???
  


Can


we get an official statement for this
situation? Are there fines?
  
Penalty's?? Do you get a nasty gram??  Do they not send me a xmas card
  



next year??  What???
  
  
It may help bring more compliance or it may result in less filings.
  
Either way I think the membership should know.
  
  
Marlon...How about asking some of your contacts.
  
  
-B-
  
  


  
  
  



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[WISPA] technology event

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/confpage/060307.htm

For anyone that's interested.  It would be great to see some wireless 
folks at this.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



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Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers

[Jeff Sullivan]

I agree, this is the set that I have been using for 8 years now. Has 
interchangable dies for rj-11 and rj-45. Probably made 1000+ ends with 
no bad crimps and still a nice working tool, no slop. Altho, they cost 
$125, I would use none other.


http://www.tecratools.com/pages/datacom/graphics/39150l.gif


Pete Davis wrote:
Yeah. I bought a $45 pair of Ideal brand crimpers, and it was definitely 
money well spent. I am familiar with those ratcheting ones, too. They 
are nice.
The $15 that come free with a box of cable sometimes are what we WERE 
using, but we were having to redo ends more often than not. It was rare 
to get a 2 crimp install done with just two ends with cheap crimpers.


Pete Davis
NoDial.net

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Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers

[Pete Davis]

Yeah. I bought a $45 pair of Ideal brand crimpers, and it was definitely 
money well spent. I am familiar with those ratcheting ones, too. They 
are nice.
The $15 that come free with a box of cable sometimes are what we WERE 
using, but we were having to redo ends more often than not. It was rare 
to get a 2 crimp install done with just two ends with cheap crimpers.


Pete Davis
NoDial.net

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

The "local" electronics store sold me a pair of crimpers that listed for
$55, but since the package was trashed, he gave me $10 off.  Boy, I have
never regretted it.   No more of those cheap ones.   Not a single bad crimp
since I changed crimpers and yes, we use the "cheap" standard ends.   We had
issues with the "regular" ones, even though we had tried 3 different pairs
of crimpers.   We never left a customer with a bad cable, but there was a
couple times the c able didn't work, and visually inspecting the crimp
showed a deficiency.

These things are NOT very convenient to use, but they have this ratcheting
mechanism that won't let you let loose of the connector until you squeeze
all the way.The plug is tight in the crimper, and they are very heavy.

Not a single bad crimp since then.





North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
personal correspondence to:  mark at neofast dot net
sales inquiries to:  purchasing at neofast dot net
Fast Internet, NO WIRES!

-
- Original Message - 
From: "Pete Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers


  

I have bought those before. They are kind of a cool novelty, but they
don't add THAT much reliability/speed/ease of use/etc IMO.

pd

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


That's it.  Thanks!

Do you really pay $.60 per connector???  Maybe it's not as nice of a
tool as I thought

laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Aubrey Wells"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] ot rj45 crimpers


  

http://www.happcontrols.com/electrical_supplies/92060900.htm

---
Aubrey Wells
One Ring Networks
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
o: (404) 601.1407
f: (404) 601.1408
c: (770) 356.9767



Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:


Hi All,

I'm looking for a crimper I saw someone talk about.  It uses special
rj45 connectors that allow the cable to go through the end.  Then
the crimper crimps and cuts to length at the same time.

Anyone know what it's called and where to get the connectors and the
crimper?

thanks!

Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own
wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



  

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[WISPA] Tech CEOs urge US find more wireless airwaves

[Peter R.]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060223/tc_nm/telecoms_wireless_ceos_dc

The executives also plan to suggest the FCC ease restrictions on
wireless licenses so companies have more flexibility to use the airwaves
for new services. They also will recommend making more unlicensed
spectrum available that could be used for a variety of purposes.

The organization also plans to recommend Congress and regulators ensure
that public safety organizations have the airwaves they need. Safety
officials have complained about poor communications during disasters
like the September 11 attacks and Hurricane Katrina.

The FCC is slated to start auctioning some airwaves June 29, including
some airwaves that government agencies are vacating.

Other airwaves are expected to be sold in 2008 ahead of the 2009 move by
U.S. television broadcasters from analog wireless airwaves to other
airwaves for their digital television signals.


--


Regards,

Peter
RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist
We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate
813.963.5884
http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm



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