[FairfieldLife] Re: The Chip Charleston that I knew -

[mahdeealoo]

He's the reason I took 4 years of every psychology class he taught that the 
school offered, 
and the dreaded statistics too. He did genuinely care about each of his 
students. Even the 
ones that came in with hangovers that slept through class. I'm surprised that 
he didn't 
keep pillows in his office for them. Looked like those desks were mighty hard.

You might remember him by his stature. Tall, lanky, dark wavy hair. Long face. 
An ear to 
ear smile. He looked a bit like a cross between George Harrison and Jeff 
Goldblum, the 
actor. In the years I knew him (from about 1988) he always wore black Beatle 
boots or 
black cowboy boots. They were a little trademark of his. His ex was Lynn 
Charleston who 
was part Hawaiian and taught at MSAE for some time. One of his daughters was a 
drummer in a local band. Not bad for 17.
mary



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A student in one of the MA programs.
 
 Sal
 
 On Dec 7, 2006, at 7:36 PM, Marek Reavis wrote:
 
  Sal, were you a student or a professor? (If you don't mind my asking.)
 
   Marek
 
   **
 
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@
   wrote:
   
On Dec 7, 2006, at 8:22 AM, Peter wrote:
   
 Sounds like he was one of those good professors that
 deeply inspire students with their enthusiasm for
 knowledge and understanding.
   
Which probably explains why he left MUM. I'm surprised his name
doesn't ring a bell, as he was probably there when I was, from 
  91-93.
   
Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vyaasa's bhaaSya: entering another's body (III 37), part 1

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote:
 
  
  loliibhuutasya manaso 'pratiSThasya sharire 
  karmaashayavashaad bandhaH pratiSThetyarthaH |
 
 Sandhi-vigraha:
 
 lolii[?typo; should be laalii??]-bhuutasya; manasaH; apratiSThasya;
 sharire; karma+aashaya; vashaat; bandhaH; ??pratiSThaa+iti+arthaH??


No, it's not a typo:

lola [law-lah]  a. moving hither and thither, restless, unsteady;
greedy, eager or longing for (loc., infin., or ---); abstr. {-tA} f.,
{-tva} n.

My guess is the overall meaning of the above sentence is 
something like this:

Mind is [naturally] restless. It is bound to a body because
of karma.
It's hard to come up with a translation proper that doesn't sound
somehow awkward...

[FairfieldLife] Re: Let's talk about something different

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 --- Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Peter wrote:
   I had tantric sex with her for a couple of hours
   yesterday...
   
  You are supposed to see the film BEFORE you make
  your comments, Peter.
 
 Oh time is so Kali yuga, now isn't it.
 

Well, perhaps kali and kaala(time) are derived
from the same root...


 
 
  
  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vyaasa's bhaaSya: entering another's body (III 37), part 1

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 tasya karmaNo bandhakaaraNasya shaithilyaM
 samaadhibalaad bhavati |

Relaxation (shaithilyam) of that (tasya)
[of] binding[making](bandha-kaaraNasya)
of karma (karmanaH) becomes (bhavati)
from the power (balaat) [of] samaadhi.

(English is much more handy above, because
one needs only one 'of' that applies to
the whole noun phrase, whereas the indicator
of the the genitive (possesive) case [-sya, -(n)aH] in Sanskrit has to
be attached to all the components of that
noun phrase [ta-sya bandhakaaraNa-sya karman-aH])

Well, hmmm



 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vyaasa's bhaaSya: entering another's body (III 37), part 1

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 loliibhuutasya manaso 'pratiSThasya sharire 
 karmaashayavashaad bandhaH pratiSThetyarthaH |
 tasya karmaNo bandhakaaraNasya shaithilyaM
 samaadhibalaad bhavati | pracaarasaMvedanaM
 ca cittasya samaadhijam eva 

and (ca) pracaara*-saMvedana** of citta (citta_sya; how's 'citta'
different from 'manaH'?) [is] indeed (eva) samaadhi-born (samaadhi-jam).


*) pracAra  m. roaming , wandering Hariv. (cf. %{bhikSA-}) ; coming
forth , showing one's self , manifestation , appearance , occurrence ,
existence MBh. Ka1v. c. ; application , employment , use ib. ;
conduct , behaviour Mn. MBh. c. ; prevalence , currency , custom ,
usage W. ; a playground , place of exercise Hariv. ; pasture-ground ,
pasturage Mn. ix , 219 (= Vishn2. xviii , 44 , where Sch. ` a way or
road leading from or to a house ') Ya1jn5. MBh. Hariv. R.

**)saMvedanan. the act of perceiving or feeling , perception ,
sensation MBh. Ka1v. Sarvad. ; making known , communication ,
announcement , information Katha1s. S3a1rn3gS.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Sam Harris: Reply to Nicholas Kristof

[Vaj]

On Dec 7, 2006, at 10:34 PM, quantum packet wrote:

How did religion acquire its extraordinary immunity against normal  
levels of criticism?



Uh, do you remember Salman Rushdie? How about Theo Van Gogh?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Moral Choices, Build another pundit campus?

[dhamiltony2k5]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
 snip 
 
 Not much like Harvard or Yale actually.  The integrity is way 
higher 
   much more transparent at the real universities.  Differently, 
at 
  MUM it takes so much more money when half of it disappears 
 abroad.  
  No surprize that 250 people have backed out of providing their 
 money 
  to Maharaishi now and the TMorg.  The word is out.
  
  It is about integrity and this money thing kind of goes in the 
 same 
  catagory with the movement not being able to easily attract the 
 2,000 
  or 1700 people (M.E.) it was wishing for without  hirlings.  
  
  It is a sad story about the loss of integrity and a fallen guru.  
  Look at the money problem, their research and their pr, they are 
  apparently liars, cheaters and stealers in method.  Qualities not 
  usually associated with integrity.  We'll see if Maharishi can re-
  write things as they have become at the end of his book in the 
 final 
  chapter.  
  
  Lots of people will write the epilogue when the time is ready and 
  there is a lot of material for that.
  
  -Doug in FF
 
 I don't really see it as a problem with integrity- In other words I 
 don't think the money is being used to enrich anyone. As I've said 
 before the TMO including MUM has always struck me as nearly povery 
 ridden. The problem is that they feel they are not accountable to 
 their benefactors. I feel incalculable gratitude for Maharishi's 
 knowledge and could not really put a price tag on it. Having said 
 that, I give almost nothing to the Movement, because of 
 this however we spend it is the best way, and no, we don't have to 
 tell you how because we are saving the world attitude. Or more 
 precisely, when they pretend not to have the described attitude and 
 it leaks out anyway. I would feel better if they just said, we 
need 
 money again for continued operations and left it at that.


Yeah, yours is a good synopsis of how a lot of meditator people feel 
here.  It (hold the nose and go) is a moral choice and also about 
integrity.  You live in FF and count yourself in the domes?  You go 
to the domes?  Would you if you live here?

There are catagories of folk here.  All meditators, some who could 
like to go but who are administratively denied,  some who look the 
other way while going, some tru-believer types who make their moral 
chice to look the other way and see no evil, some who simply do not 
condone the bad behaviour and choose not to go  instead meditate in 
other groups or at home during dome times.  It all is experience 
driven.  

It is a lot about integrity of consciousness and how people gauge for 
that.  People make moral choices all the time which 
are also very much about Maharishi's integrity.  Your comments are 
entirely common here around the TMorg, even people living on campus 
or up in Vedic City.  It is fascinating to watch.  

It is about character and integrity and people deal with it in a 
variety of ways.  That they (Maharishi and the TM0rg) could not 
acheive the numbers for the Maharishi Effect without hiring people 
and importing pundits,  still try to separate people from their 
money after all the other fundraising  conversion of assets?  

People sit with it differently but the numbers in the aggregate 
medtitating community have not been good for the TMorg for a while.   
It is also about integrity in the marketplace and the 
meditating community.  Maharishi seemed to have fallen in the scale 
of things.  So it is.  I am quite hopeful in the end because there 
are so many really good people around here.  It still is a great 
spiritual practice community to be in, like that Iowa motto, Iowa, a 
great place to grow.  There is also an enduring collective hope and 
prayer that Maharishi and the TMorg will grow out of its bad 
behaviours and spiritual arrogance.  He's got time left in him yet.

--Doug in FF  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[Peter]

People make a mistake when they view advaitin
teachings as presenting conceptual models of
Realization for a waking state intellect. For the
waking state intellect they are obviously lacking as
you and others have pointed out. It doesn't mean what
they say is false or wrong, its just that they are
meant to be applied in two ways: as a tool for
transcendence or as a conceptual understanding of a
direct experience that you are having. Contrast this
with MMY's teaching which presents a conceptual model
of Realization for a waking state intellect. The
waking state mind has something to chew on, as it
were, and functions as a belief system to motivate the
seeker to continue doing sadhana. The real value is in
the sadhana, day in and day out, doing the program,
not in the conceptual model. But once Realization
occurs, the wakingstate model doesn't fit anymore. It
is recognized as a useful fiction for waking state
sadhana. Only in Realization do the advaitin teachings
make any conceptual sense. Prior to Realization they
appear to deny the rather clear experience of the
space-time reality of waking state.

--- hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 -- Nisargadata Maharaj is one of those Neo-Advaitin
 Nihilists who 
 states that he's Pure Consciousness, but refuses to
 acknowledge  his 
 existence in the relative world. (these teachings
 are inconsistent 
 with what MMY says...since Brahman has two aspects
 in One, not one 
 aspect in One.).  Thanks anyway for the quote...a
 good illustration 
 of a 100% teaching, as opposed to MMY's 200%. 
 Buddhism, BTW  on the 
 whole; has a pure Consciousness only school; but
 on the whole (C.f. 
 the statements of the Dalai Lama) is more down to
 earth than Nis.'s 
 pie in the sky Nihilism.  
 
  By looking tirelessly, I became quite empty and
 with that 
 emptiness
  all came back to me except the mind. I find I have
 lost the mind
  irretrievably. I am neither conscious nor
 unconscious, I am beyond 
 the
  mind and its various states and conditions.
 Distinctions are created
  by the mind and apply to the mind only. I am pure
 Consciousness
  itself, unbroken awareness of all that is. I am in
 a more real state
  than yours. I am undistracted by the distinctions
 and separations
  which constitute a person. As long as the body
 lasts, it has its 
 needs
  like any other, but my mental process has come to
 an end. My 
 thinking,
  like my digestion, is unconscious and purposeful.
 I am not a person 
 in
  your sense of the word, though I may appear a
 person to you. I am 
 that
  infinite ocean of consciousness in which all
 happens. I am also 
 beyond
  all existence and cognition, pure bliss of being.
 There is nothing I
  feel separate from, hence I am all. No thing is
 me, so I am nothing.
  Life will escape, the body will die, but it will
 not affect me in 
 the
  least. Beyond space and time I am, uncaused,
 uncausing, yet the very
  matrix of existence.
 
 
 
 
 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!' 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Moral Choices, Build another pundit campus?

[Peter]

--- dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 
 Yeah, yours is a good synopsis of how a lot of
 meditator people feel 
 here.  It (hold the nose and go) is a moral choice
 and also about 
 integrity.  You live in FF and count yourself in the
 domes?  You go 
 to the domes?  Would you if you live here?
 
 There are catagories of folk here.  All meditators,
 some who could 
 like to go but who are administratively denied, 
 some who look the 
 other way while going, some tru-believer types who
 make their moral 
 chice to look the other way and see no evil, some
 who simply do not 
 condone the bad behaviour and choose not to go 
 instead meditate in 
 other groups or at home during dome times.  It all
 is experience 
 driven.  
 
 It is a lot about integrity of consciousness and how
 people gauge for 
 that.  People make moral choices all the time which 
 are also very much about Maharishi's integrity. 
 Your comments are 
 entirely common here around the TMorg, even people
 living on campus 
 or up in Vedic City.  It is fascinating to watch.  
 
 It is about character and integrity and people deal
 with it in a 
 variety of ways.  That they (Maharishi and the
 TM0rg) could not 
 acheive the numbers for the Maharishi Effect without
 hiring people 
 and importing pundits,  still try to separate
 people from their 
 money after all the other fundraising  conversion
 of assets?  
 
 People sit with it differently but the numbers in
 the aggregate 
 medtitating community have not been good for the
 TMorg for a while.   
 It is also about integrity in the marketplace and
 the 
 meditating community.  Maharishi seemed to have
 fallen in the scale 
 of things.  So it is.  I am quite hopeful in the end
 because there 
 are so many really good people around here.  It
 still is a great 
 spiritual practice community to be in, like that
 Iowa motto, Iowa, a 
 great place to grow.  There is also an enduring
 collective hope and 
 prayer that Maharishi and the TMorg will grow out of
 its bad 
 behaviours and spiritual arrogance.  He's got time
 left in him yet.
 
 --Doug in FF 

Nice post. I see MMY as what native Americans would
call a coyote teacher. He's a left-handed tantric
master who gets our waking state panties in a bunch.
This why it is VERY important to be authentic with
your reaction to his antics and all sorts of
nonsense-its a secret part of the sadhana. The
spirtual integrity you seek is something that we need
to bring to bare, its not MMY's dharma. 




 
 
 
 
 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!' 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 



 

Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vyaasa's bhaaSya: entering another's body (III 37), part 1

[cardemaister]

karmabandhakSayaat svacittasya pracaarasaMvedanaacca
yogii cittaM svashariiraanniSkRtya shariiraantareSu nikSipati


 karmabandhakSayaat svacittasya 

From destroying (kSayaat) the karmabondage (karma-
bandha) _of_ his own mind (sva-citta_sya_)

pracaarasaMvedanaacca

and (ca) from pracaara-saMvedana (pracaara-saMvedanaat)

 yogii cittaM
 svashariiraanniSkRtya shariiraantareSu nikSipati |

yogii ni_kSips*(nikSipati) [his] mind (cittam)
inside ([a]antareSu?; plural) [other] bodies? (shariira; sing.)
having niSkRt-ed** (niSkRtya) [it] from his own body
(sva-shariiraat)


*)nikSip P. %{-kSipati} , to throw or cast or put or lay down , throw
c. in or upon (Inc. or %{upari}) Ya1jn5. MBh. R. c. ; to pour in
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Pan5c. iii , 135/136 ; to deliver anything (acc.)
to (loc. , esp. %{haste}) , to give or hand over , deposit , intrust
Mn. Ya1jn5. MBh. c. ; to instal , appoint to (loc.) R. ; to lay aside
, give up , leave , abandon , cast off , repel MBh. R. c. ; to put
down figures , count , cipher Lalit.

**)niSkRt P. %{-kRntati} (ep. also A1. ; ind. p. %{-kRtya}) , to cut
off or out , divide , separate , hew asunder , massacre RV. S3Br. MBh.

[FairfieldLife] Chip Charleston Memorial Service CHANGE IN TIME

[feste37]

The memorial service for Chip Charleston will be held upstairs at Revelations 
on Sunday, December 10 at 8.00 p.m.  (Not 7:30. p.m. as previously 
announced.)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Chip Charleston that I knew -

[Sal Sunshine]

On Dec 8, 2006, at 2:00 AM, mahdeealoo wrote:

  You might remember him by his stature. Tall, lanky, dark wavy hair. 
 Long face. An ear to
  ear smile. He looked a bit like a cross between George Harrison and 
 Jeff Goldblum, the
  actor. In the years I knew him (from about 1988) he always wore black 
 Beatle boots or
  black cowboy boots. They were a little trademark of his. His ex was 
 Lynn Charleston who
  was part Hawaiian and taught at MSAE for some time. One of his 
 daughters was a
  drummer in a local band. Not bad for 17.

Doesn't really ring a bell, but he might have been gone by the time I 
got there.  Thanks for the description, though.  I hope his family 
pulls through and gets lots of support.

Best,
Susan
Susan Hirschmann

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 People make a mistake when they view advaitin
 teachings as presenting conceptual models of
 Realization for a waking state intellect. For the
 waking state intellect they are obviously lacking as
 you and others have pointed out. It doesn't mean what
 they say is false or wrong, its just that they are
 meant to be applied in two ways: as a tool for
 transcendence or as a conceptual understanding of a
 direct experience that you are having. Contrast this
 with MMY's teaching which presents a conceptual model
 of Realization for a waking state intellect. The
 waking state mind has something to chew on, as it
 were, and functions as a belief system to motivate the
 seeker to continue doing sadhana. The real value is in
 the sadhana, day in and day out, doing the program,
 not in the conceptual model. But once Realization
 occurs, the wakingstate model doesn't fit anymore. It
 is recognized as a useful fiction for waking state
 sadhana. Only in Realization do the advaitin teachings
 make any conceptual sense. Prior to Realization they
 appear to deny the rather clear experience of the
 space-time reality of waking state.
 
Beautifully and precisely said! As a note, when I read the 
Nisargadatta quote, he doesn't negate the limited self, he just 
clearly no longer identifies with it. So it continues to be a 
balanced view of life.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 I know you have to go. But this is really important: Tell me 
about 
 your new line of coffee. 
 
 David Lynch Signature Cup. It's the coffee I drink. And I really 
love 
 drinking coffee. 
 
  I've heard that. I wish we had some right now. 
 
 Yeah! So it's gonna be sold on the site at first, and then it's 
going 
 into stores. Yesterday I was at the Brattle Theatre in Boston 
[actually 
 Cambridge, Mass.], and they want, you know, to put it in the 
lobby. It 
 would be very cool if it was in art houses. It's a filmmaker's 
coffee. 
 But a coffee that all people, I hope, will enjoy. It's really 
good. 
 
 http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2006/12/07/btm/index.html

I wonder if anyone else has noted that the most public proponent of 
TM these days is addicted to cigarettes and coffee? 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris: Reply to Nicholas Kristof

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 7, 2006, at 10:34 PM, quantum packet wrote:
 
  How did religion acquire its extraordinary immunity against normal  
  levels of criticism?
 
 
 Uh, do you remember Salman Rushdie? How about Theo Van Gogh?


er, Martin Lluthor?

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi?

[FairfieldLife] DOME ANNOUNCEMENTS-- Urgent Need for In-town Housing

[Rick Archer]

Dome Announcements [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:50:28 -0600
Subject: DOME ANNOUNCEMENTS-- Urgent Need for In-town Housing
From: Dome Announcements [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Dome-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dear Community Members,

The winter holiday break promises to bring us the most wonderful of gifts --
a HUGE number of Yogic Flyers:
. At least 100 for the Invincible America Assembly - and this number is
rising.
. Approximately 120 for the CIC Flying Block.
. An as-yet unknown number for the just-announced Governor Recertification
course.

In addition:
. Twenty more Vedic Pandits are arriving this weekend, with another 30 or so
a week or two after that.
. Purusha's numbers will be expanding from 100 to 120 in the next few weeks.
. In February about 150 new students will arrive on campus.

All of this is a marvelous gift -- for we are on the brink of the numbers we
need for creating a truly Invincible America. We cannot let our numbers drop
during the holiday weeks - if anything, we want to increase them.

But we need a place for everyone to stay!

Once more we appeal to everyone in town to find rooms in their homes,
particularly during the critical two-weeks of the the holiday break.

WHAT TO DO
. Please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you have a room or rooms you'd like to list.

. This information will then appear on http://www.mum.edu/forum/

. If you rent a space you've listed, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] so the 
listing
can be removed.

. Please let your friends know about this need.

We are asking students who will be away for the holidays to clear their
rooms, and we are doubling people wherever possible. But we still will not
have sufficient space for everyone we expect to come.

Thanks so much for helping accommodate all the precious Yogic Flyers coming
from around the country and around the world to help create an Invincible
America - and perpetual peace for our world family.
***

DOME ANNOUNCEMENTS is a moderated list that distributes announcements to the
Maharishi University of Management community. Send your announcements to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Encourage your friends to sign up for DOME ANNOUNCEMENTS. Send an e-mail
message to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and put the word subscribe (without the
quotation marks) in the body of the message.

To stop receiving DOME ANNOUNCEMENTS, send an e-mail message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED], and type the word unsubscribe (without the
quotation marks) in the body of the message.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 
  I know you have to go. But this is really important: Tell me 
 about 
  your new line of coffee. 
  
  David Lynch Signature Cup. It's the coffee I drink. And I really 
 love 
  drinking coffee. 
  
   I've heard that. I wish we had some right now. 
  
  Yeah! So it's gonna be sold on the site at first, and then it's 
 going 
  into stores. Yesterday I was at the Brattle Theatre in Boston 
 [actually 
  Cambridge, Mass.], and they want, you know, to put it in the 
 lobby. It 
  would be very cool if it was in art houses. It's a filmmaker's 
 coffee. 
  But a coffee that all people, I hope, will enjoy. It's really 
 good. 
  
  http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2006/12/07/btm/index.html
 
 I wonder if anyone else has noted that the most public proponent of 
 TM these days is addicted to cigarettes and coffee?


Blazing Brahma. For all you know, he's Gurdev reincarnated...

[FairfieldLife] Please forward to all friends of the Charlestons and please come

[Rick Archer]

 

 

In Loving Memory

Dodds Chip Charleston

 Share a memory

Show support

Say good bye.

 

When: Sunday, December 10, 8:00 p.m.

Where:  Revelations, upstairs room.
(Enter through door to the left of the main entrance

For more information, contact Julie Guttmann, 472-1728.

attachment: Clear_Day_Bkgrd.JPG

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 People make a mistake when they view advaitin
 teachings as presenting conceptual models of
 Realization for a waking state intellect. For the
 waking state intellect they are obviously lacking as
 you and others have pointed out. It doesn't mean what
 they say is false or wrong, its just that they are
 meant to be applied in two ways: as a tool for
 transcendence or as a conceptual understanding of a
 direct experience that you are having. Contrast this
 with MMY's teaching which presents a conceptual model
 of Realization for a waking state intellect. The
 waking state mind has something to chew on...

I would add, and to cling to, as a mechanism for
keeping the actual experience of realization away...

 ...as it
 were, and functions as a belief system to motivate the
 seeker to continue doing sadhana. The real value is in
 the sadhana, day in and day out, doing the program,
 not in the conceptual model. But once Realization
 occurs, the wakingstate model doesn't fit anymore. It
 is recognized as a useful fiction for waking state
 sadhana. Only in Realization do the advaitin teachings
 make any conceptual sense. Prior to Realization they
 appear to deny the rather clear experience of the
 space-time reality of waking state.

Well said. 

In general, those who don't get the advaita 
approach have not had the direct experience of
realization. For those who have, they make sense.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Moral Choices, Build another pundit campus?

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
snip Yeah, yours is a good synopsis of how a lot of meditator 
people feel 
 here.  It (hold the nose and go) is a moral choice and also about 
 integrity.  You live in FF and count yourself in the domes?  You 
go 
 to the domes?  Would you if you live here?

My take on the TMO is more conceptual than experiential at this 
point, and I hope my response didn't sound like I was excusing them 
for anything. Personally I meditate twice a day. I no longer do the 
TM-Siddhis program (though I continue sanyama ;-)), live in Northern 
California, and would not consider moving to Fairfield and doing a 
dome program. I also have minimal contact with the TM Center here in 
the Bay Area.

Jai Guru Dev

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ 
  wrote:
  
   I know you have to go. But this is really important: Tell me 
  about 
   your new line of coffee. 
   
   David Lynch Signature Cup. It's the coffee I drink. And I 
really 
  love 
   drinking coffee. 
   
I've heard that. I wish we had some right now. 
   
   Yeah! So it's gonna be sold on the site at first, and then 
it's 
  going 
   into stores. Yesterday I was at the Brattle Theatre in Boston 
  [actually 
   Cambridge, Mass.], and they want, you know, to put it in the 
  lobby. It 
   would be very cool if it was in art houses. It's a filmmaker's 
  coffee. 
   But a coffee that all people, I hope, will enjoy. It's really 
  good. 
   
   
http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2006/12/07/btm/index.html
  
  I wonder if anyone else has noted that the most public proponent 
of 
  TM these days is addicted to cigarettes and coffee?
 
 
 Blazing Brahma. For all you know, he's Gurdev reincarnated...

He is definitely not Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswati, reincarnated. 
His Holiness has not incarnated on the earth at this time. Why do 
you suggest such things?

[FairfieldLife] To my friends of Yogavisionaries and Wisdom Magazine/Lou Valentino

[Lsoma]

 
12/08/2006 
Dear Friends of Yogavisionaries and  Wisdom Magazine: 
For all of you who are enjoying my  astrological columns in Wisdom magazine 
could you please write or call the  publisher to let her know that you are 
enjoying reading my monthly columns. She  had received a less than positive 
remark 
from a reader today and seems to think  that my talk of politics, future 
events, UFO intervention should not be a part  of the column anymore.  
Her name is Mary A. Arsenalut. You can  e-mail her at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])  or call 888-828-6670. Fax  888-577-8089 or visit 
her website _www.widsom-magazine.com_ (http://www.widsom-magazine.com/)  
I love writing the astrological column  for Wisdsom and look forward to 
continuing as long as the audience wants me.   
Sincerely, 
Lou  Valentino

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote:
 
  People make a mistake when they view advaitin
  teachings as presenting conceptual models of
  Realization for a waking state intellect. For the
  waking state intellect they are obviously lacking as
  you and others have pointed out. It doesn't mean what
  they say is false or wrong, its just that they are
  meant to be applied in two ways: as a tool for
  transcendence or as a conceptual understanding of a
  direct experience that you are having. Contrast this
  with MMY's teaching which presents a conceptual model
  of Realization for a waking state intellect. The
  waking state mind has something to chew on...
 
 I would add, and to cling to, as a mechanism for
 keeping the actual experience of realization away...

And some waking-state minds cling to this notion
about other waking-state minds, fervently believing
(hoping?) that these other minds chew on the conceptual
model in order to keep the actual experience of
realization away, when in fact chewing on and
clinging to aren't necessarily always joined at the
hip (especially when one has the regular experience
of transcending).

  ...as it
  were, and functions as a belief system to motivate the
  seeker to continue doing sadhana. The real value is in
  the sadhana, day in and day out, doing the program,
  not in the conceptual model. But once Realization
  occurs, the wakingstate model doesn't fit anymore. It
  is recognized as a useful fiction for waking state
  sadhana. Only in Realization do the advaitin teachings
  make any conceptual sense. Prior to Realization they
  appear to deny the rather clear experience of the
  space-time reality of waking state.
 
 Well said. 
 
 In general, those who don't get the advaita 
 approach have not had the direct experience of
 realization. For those who have, they make sense.

If the advaita approach makes sense, it's not
the direct experience of realization.  (I'm nit-
picking, but making sense can be said only of
a waking-state model, strictly speaking.  We don't
really have any good terms for it other than the
one Heinlein invented, grokking.)

[FairfieldLife] Re: JAMA Caper

[Richard J. Williams]

sparaig wrote:
 What was the title of Skolnick's JAMA article, which 
 is what Judy was referring to.

No, I was referring to Skolnick's Hoodwinked article which appeared
in Skeptical Enquirer, that's why I said it was called the
Hoodwinked article. That's why this thread is called JAMA Caper -
can't you two read? I've already read the issue of JAMA which carried
Chopra's Ayer-Veda article and the subsequent letters to the editor.

From: Judy Stein
Date: Thurs, Sep 5 1996 12:00 am
Groups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Subject: Settlement?
http://tinyurl.com/yzjyyg

However, according to New York magazine, as Sherilyn knows, Skolnick
was indeed shut up, having been discouraged from continuing his
anti-TM/Chopra/MA-V campaign in the pages of JAMA. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: JAMA Caper

[Richard J. Williams]

  Chopra did sue Skolnick
 
jstein wrote: 
 No, as you know, Chopra did not sue Skolnick.
 
There seems to be some confusion on this: Chopra at the time WAS the
TMO and he owned MAPI and the Lancaster Foundation. Apparently Chopra
was a Plaintive in the suit. What's up with that?

From: Judy Stein
Date: Mon, May 27 1996 12:00 am
Groups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Subject: Skolnick Suit, I
http://tinyurl.com/yfaee2

Following is the text of the decision regarding the preliminary
injunction requested by the plaintiffs in the suit against Skolnick
and JAMA.

THE LANCASTER FOUNDATION, INC., THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION FOR
AYUR-VEDIC MEDICINE, INC., Plaintiffs, v. ANDREW A. SKOLNICK

From: Judy Stein
Date: Thurs, Sep 5 1996 12:00 am
Groups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Subject: Settlement?
http://tinyurl.com/yzjyyg

However, according to New York magazine, as Sherilyn knows, Skolnick
was indeed shut up, having been discouraged from continuing his
anti-TM/Chopra/MA-V campaign in the pages of JAMA. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vyaasa's bhaaSya: entering another's body (III 37), part 1

[cardemaister]

| karmabandhakSayaat
 svacittasya pracaarasaMvedanaacca yogii cittaM
 svashariiraanniSkRtya shariiraantareSu nikSipati |
 nikSiptaM cittaM cendriyaaNyanu patanti |

(nikSiptam; cittam; ca + indriyaaNi + anu patanti)

And (ca) the senses (indriyaaNi) follow (anu patanti)
the nikSipt-ed [nikSiptam: thrown off?] mind (cittam).

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ 
wrote:
  
   People make a mistake when they view advaitin
   teachings as presenting conceptual models of
   Realization for a waking state intellect. For the
   waking state intellect they are obviously lacking as
   you and others have pointed out. It doesn't mean what
   they say is false or wrong, its just that they are
   meant to be applied in two ways: as a tool for
   transcendence or as a conceptual understanding of a
   direct experience that you are having. Contrast this
   with MMY's teaching which presents a conceptual model
   of Realization for a waking state intellect. The
   waking state mind has something to chew on...
  
  I would add, and to cling to, as a mechanism for
  keeping the actual experience of realization away...
 
 And some waking-state minds cling to this notion
 about other waking-state minds, fervently believing
 (hoping?) that these other minds chew on the conceptual
 model in order to keep the actual experience of
 realization away, when in fact chewing on and
 clinging to aren't necessarily always joined at the
 hip (especially when one has the regular experience
 of transcending).
snip
Yep, important distinction to make- that with the regular experience 
of transcending, that clinging will eventually give way. Or there is 
set up such a cognitive dissonance between the experience of 
transcending and the waking state that meditation is stopped.

Turq's description seems closer to an intellectual argument  
presented to those practicing more of a mindfulness technique while 
remaining in the waking state, so the challenge is constantly to the 
waking state ego, stated in terms of the waking state ego. Without 
the unwinding that continual transcending brings about, this 
technique seems most useful if practiced in direct proximity to an 
enlightened Master. Otherwise, there is no opportunity for the 
required purification to take place in order to experience 
Realization. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: JAMA Caper

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   Chopra did sue Skolnick
  
 jstein wrote: 
  No, as you know, Chopra did not sue Skolnick.
  
 There seems to be some confusion on this: Chopra at the time
 WAS the TMO and he owned MAPI and the Lancaster Foundation.

No, he owned neither, as you know.  (And MAPI, of
course, as you know, was not involved in the suit.)

 Apparently Chopra
 was a Plaintive in the suit. What's up with that?

No, he was not a plaintiff in the suit.  There isn't
any confusion about it at all, other than the 
confusion you're attempting to create.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[nablusos108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 
  I know you have to go. But this is really important: Tell me 
 about 
  your new line of coffee. 
  
  David Lynch Signature Cup. It's the coffee I drink. And I really 
 love 
  drinking coffee. 
  
   I've heard that. I wish we had some right now. 
  
  Yeah! So it's gonna be sold on the site at first, and then it's 
 going 
  into stores. Yesterday I was at the Brattle Theatre in Boston 
 [actually 
  Cambridge, Mass.], and they want, you know, to put it in the 
 lobby. It 
  would be very cool if it was in art houses. It's a filmmaker's 
 coffee. 
  But a coffee that all people, I hope, will enjoy. It's really 
 good. 
  
  http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2006/12/07/btm/index.html
 
 I wonder if anyone else has noted that the most public proponent of 
 TM these days is addicted to cigarettes and coffee?

Most ? Who else than DL ?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Moral Choices, Build another pundit campus?

[nablusos108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
  dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
  snip 
  
  Not much like Harvard or Yale actually.  The integrity is way 
 higher 
much more transparent at the real universities.  Differently, 
 at 
   MUM it takes so much more money when half of it disappears 
  abroad.  
   No surprize that 250 people have backed out of providing their 
  money 
   to Maharaishi now and the TMorg.  The word is out.
   
   It is about integrity and this money thing kind of goes in the 
  same 
   catagory with the movement not being able to easily attract the 
  2,000 
   or 1700 people (M.E.) it was wishing for without  hirlings.  
   
   It is a sad story about the loss of integrity and a fallen 
guru.  
   Look at the money problem, their research and their pr, they 
are 
   apparently liars, cheaters and stealers in method.  Qualities 
not 
   usually associated with integrity.  We'll see if Maharishi can 
re-
   write things as they have become at the end of his book in the 
  final 
   chapter.  
   
   Lots of people will write the epilogue when the time is ready 
and 
   there is a lot of material for that.
   
   -Doug in FF
  
  I don't really see it as a problem with integrity- In other words 
I 
  don't think the money is being used to enrich anyone. As I've 
said 
  before the TMO including MUM has always struck me as nearly 
povery 
  ridden. The problem is that they feel they are not accountable to 
  their benefactors. I feel incalculable gratitude for Maharishi's 
  knowledge and could not really put a price tag on it. Having said 
  that, I give almost nothing to the Movement, because of 
  this however we spend it is the best way, and no, we don't have 
to 
  tell you how because we are saving the world attitude. Or more 
  precisely, when they pretend not to have the described attitude 
and 
  it leaks out anyway. I would feel better if they just said, we 
 need 
  money again for continued operations and left it at that.
 
 
 Yeah, yours is a good synopsis of how a lot of meditator people 
feel 
 here.  It (hold the nose and go) is a moral choice and also about 
 integrity.  You live in FF and count yourself in the domes?  You go 
 to the domes?  Would you if you live here?
 
 There are catagories of folk here.  All meditators, some who could 
 like to go but who are administratively denied,  some who look the 
 other way while going, some tru-believer types who make their moral 
 chice to look the other way and see no evil, some who simply do not 
 condone the bad behaviour and choose not to go  instead meditate 
in 
 other groups or at home during dome times.  It all is experience 
 driven.  
 
 It is a lot about integrity of consciousness and how people gauge 
for 
 that.  People make moral choices all the time which 
 are also very much about Maharishi's integrity.  Your comments are 
 entirely common here around the TMorg, even people living on campus 
 or up in Vedic City.  It is fascinating to watch.  
 
 It is about character and integrity and people deal with it in a 
 variety of ways.  That they (Maharishi and the TM0rg) could not 
 acheive the numbers for the Maharishi Effect without hiring people 
 and importing pundits,  still try to separate people from their 
 money after all the other fundraising  conversion of assets?  
 
 People sit with it differently but the numbers in the aggregate 
 medtitating community have not been good for the TMorg for a 
while.   
 It is also about integrity in the marketplace and the 
 meditating community.  Maharishi seemed to have fallen in the scale 
 of things.  So it is.  I am quite hopeful in the end because there 
 are so many really good people around here.  It still is a great 
 spiritual practice community to be in, like that Iowa motto, Iowa, 
a 
 great place to grow.  There is also an enduring collective hope 
and 
 prayer that Maharishi and the TMorg will grow out of its bad 
 behaviours and spiritual arrogance.  He's got time left in him yet.
 
 --Doug in FF

An american posing as an expert in character, intergrity and moral 
issues ? I'm sorry, but HAHAHA !

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ 
 wrote:
   
People make a mistake when they view advaitin
teachings as presenting conceptual models of
Realization for a waking state intellect. For the
waking state intellect they are obviously lacking as
you and others have pointed out. It doesn't mean what
they say is false or wrong, its just that they are
meant to be applied in two ways: as a tool for
transcendence or as a conceptual understanding of a
direct experience that you are having. Contrast this
with MMY's teaching which presents a conceptual model
of Realization for a waking state intellect. The
waking state mind has something to chew on...
   
   I would add, and to cling to, as a mechanism for
   keeping the actual experience of realization away...
  
  And some waking-state minds cling to this notion
  about other waking-state minds, fervently believing
  (hoping?) that these other minds chew on the conceptual
  model in order to keep the actual experience of
  realization away, when in fact chewing on and
  clinging to aren't necessarily always joined at the
  hip (especially when one has the regular experience
  of transcending).
 snip

 Yep, important distinction to make- that with the regular 
 experience of transcending, that clinging will eventually
 give way.

Or there is no clinging to begin with, just 
chewing.  With repeated transcending, you can't
get enough of a grip on the conceptual model to
cling to it.  Nor does chewing get in the way;
rather, it helps dissolve the model bit by bit
as it's constantly being modified by experience.
The more you chew, the more the model turns into
a mush, and the more you have to just swallow and
be done with it.

Chewing is a terrific metaphor for the process!

Another aspect of this is that in contemplating
the conceptual model in any depth, paradoxically,
logic *itself* tells you why it's the wrong tool
for the job.  That's a very liberating recognition
that actually brings the model within a hair's-
breadth of the experience, to where you can just
step smoothly right over the gap.  (Especially,
again, if you've been transcending regularly, so
you aren't stepping into unfamiliar territory,
as it were.)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[nablusos108]

-
 He is definitely not Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswati, reincarnated. 
 His Holiness has not incarnated on the earth at this time. Why do 
 you suggest such things?

Hello Jim ! You seem to possess Knowledge due to Sattwa in your life.
 
And you are right, Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswathi is not in 
incarnation at present. But He is very much looking after the 
wellbeing of this earth and it's inhabitants, being one of the most 
illustrious of Masters. And no, contrary to widespread speculation, 
He has not left this solarsystem to take care of other 
responsebilities.
 
During those years at His feet Maharishi received blessings of untold 
magnitude. 

In terms of states of consciousness, Guru Dev reached 6.0 in His 
lifetime according to Benjamin Creme. Jesus of Nasareth reached 4.0. 
Leonardo Da Vinci 5.0. 
Maitreya, our eldest Brother, is on 7.0.
 
Kind of sets Guru Dev's accomplishments during that lifetime in an 
startling light, don't you think ? According to Maharishi, all of the 
Masters in our Tradition rose to Masterhood from the level of 
ignorance. If the Masters of our Tradition could reach such a level, 
could we also not ?!


For more information, please see: http://www.shareintl.org

[FairfieldLife] 'I read the news today, oh boy!'

[Robert Gimbel]

  The Decider , December 8, 2006 (I read the news today, oh boy...  
It is all a blur of chocolate chips and Chinese peanut butter to me.  People 
sat in the wrong places and wore the wrong hats.  The Admiral dealt me three 
6's during a hand of baseball, but I folded without revealing it.  Apocalypto. 
Spike had a good night.  TW did too, as he edged into second place.  It's 6:30 
a.m.  I am uninspired.  I dreamed something forlorn about children growing up.  
I have been practicing Transcendental Meditation since about 1972.  Yesterday, 
I sort of wished I'd been taught by the Maharishi himself, but then I 
remembered that I did indeed see the Maharishi at the Illinois Institute of 
Technology on a flower-strewn stage and he giggled a lot.  I think Timothy 
Leary was there, too.  Actually, I think may have gone to see Leary and got the 
Maharishi as a freebie.  I'm sure I have the details wrong but I'm not about to 
research it.  I do remember my hitchhiking trip to South America with some 
degree of detail, country by country, step by step, dialect
 by dialect.  The world has changed.  There is nothing left to discover, 
nothing left unspoiled, untainted by commercial enterprise, unplundered and 
virginal.  I do know that a game of Between the Sheets was played and that JD, 
taking the moral high ground against games of chance, stood it out.  The rest 
of the suckers, mostly me, fell into the vortex of carnival hopes and wagered 
their various chips.  Green ones were used.   We learned what all in means in 
betting.  Mary Cheney is pregnant.  The Bush twins are running naked in 
Argentina hotel hallways.  The Refusal to Invent.  The Definition of Anarchy: 
No Dominating Power, Mutual Aid, and the third thing... ?  Lee will know.  
Tolstoy wrote his famous essay, The Kingdom of God is Within You.  You can look 
it up on Wikipedia.  It's 6:40 a.m.  My meditation will last 12-15 minutes.  
Then I'll have another cup of coffee.  Although I am writing a very long and 
complicated book called The Nineteenth Century, I may put the
 research and writing on pause for Christmas preparation. I haven't practiced 
Christmas in three years.  The book is about money.  The book is about East 
Bend.  I wish I could visit the Nineteenth Century.  You don't need money to 
get there.  It may be something yet unspoiled, untainted.  They didn't even 
have Coca Cola.  Time travel is possible.  The third rule of anarchy?  Might be 
love. Apocalypto starts today.  
  
  

  posted by The Decider @ 6:53 AM 



 __
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[FairfieldLife] 'I read the news today, oh boy!'

[Robert Gimbel]

  The Decider , December 8, 2006 (I read the news today, oh boy...  
It is all a blur of chocolate chips and Chinese peanut butter to me.  People 
sat in the wrong places and wore the wrong hats.  The Admiral dealt me three 
6's during a hand of baseball, but I folded without revealing it.  Apocalypto. 
Spike had a good night.  TW did too, as he edged into second place.  It's 6:30 
a.m.  I am uninspired.  I dreamed something forlorn about children growing up.  
I have been practicing Transcendental Meditation since about 1972.  Yesterday, 
I sort of wished I'd been taught by the Maharishi himself, but then I 
remembered that I did indeed see the Maharishi at the Illinois Institute of 
Technology on a flower-strewn stage and he giggled a lot.  I think Timothy 
Leary was there, too.  Actually, I think may have gone to see Leary and got the 
Maharishi as a freebie.  I'm sure I have the details wrong but I'm not about to 
research it.  I do remember my hitchhiking trip to South America with some 
degree of detail, country by country, step by step, dialect
 by dialect.  The world has changed.  There is nothing left to discover, 
nothing left unspoiled, untainted by commercial enterprise, unplundered and 
virginal.  I do know that a game of Between the Sheets was played and that JD, 
taking the moral high ground against games of chance, stood it out.  The rest 
of the suckers, mostly me, fell into the vortex of carnival hopes and wagered 
their various chips.  Green ones were used.   We learned what all in means in 
betting.  Mary Cheney is pregnant.  The Bush twins are running naked in 
Argentina hotel hallways.  The Refusal to Invent.  The Definition of Anarchy: 
No Dominating Power, Mutual Aid, and the third thing... ?  Lee will know.  
Tolstoy wrote his famous essay, The Kingdom of God is Within You.  You can look 
it up on Wikipedia.  It's 6:40 a.m.  My meditation will last 12-15 minutes.  
Then I'll have another cup of coffee.  Although I am writing a very long and 
complicated book called The Nineteenth Century, I may put the
 research and writing on pause for Christmas preparation. I haven't practiced 
Christmas in three years.  The book is about money.  The book is about East 
Bend.  I wish I could visit the Nineteenth Century.  You don't need money to 
get there.  It may be something yet unspoiled, untainted.  They didn't even 
have Coca Cola.  Time travel is possible.  The third rule of anarchy?  Might be 
love. Apocalypto starts today.  
  
  

  posted by The Decider @ 6:53 AM 



 
-
Any questions?  Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Moral Choices, Build another pundit campus?

[ffia1120]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusos108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
   dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
   snip 
   
   Not much like Harvard or Yale actually.  The integrity is way 
  higher 
 much more transparent at the real universities.  
Differently, 
  at 
MUM it takes so much more money when half of it disappears 
   abroad.  
No surprize that 250 people have backed out of providing 
their 
   money 
to Maharaishi now and the TMorg.  The word is out.

It is about integrity and this money thing kind of goes in 
the 
   same 
catagory with the movement not being able to easily attract 
the 
   2,000 
or 1700 people (M.E.) it was wishing for without  hirlings.  

It is a sad story about the loss of integrity and a fallen 
 guru.  
Look at the money problem, their research and their pr, they 
 are 
apparently liars, cheaters and stealers in method.  Qualities 
 not 
usually associated with integrity.  We'll see if Maharishi 
can 
 re-
write things as they have become at the end of his book in 
the 
   final 
chapter.  

Lots of people will write the epilogue when the time is ready 
 and 
there is a lot of material for that.

-Doug in FF
   
   I don't really see it as a problem with integrity- In other 
words 
 I 
   don't think the money is being used to enrich anyone. As I've 
 said 
   before the TMO including MUM has always struck me as nearly 
 povery 
   ridden. The problem is that they feel they are not accountable 
to 
   their benefactors. I feel incalculable gratitude for 
Maharishi's 
   knowledge and could not really put a price tag on it. Having 
said 
   that, I give almost nothing to the Movement, because of 
   this however we spend it is the best way, and no, we don't 
have 
 to 
   tell you how because we are saving the world attitude. Or more 
   precisely, when they pretend not to have the described attitude 
 and 
   it leaks out anyway. I would feel better if they just said, we 
  need 
   money again for continued operations and left it at that.
  
  
  Yeah, yours is a good synopsis of how a lot of meditator people 
 feel 
  here.  It (hold the nose and go) is a moral choice and also about 
  integrity.  You live in FF and count yourself in the domes?  You 
go 
  to the domes?  Would you if you live here?
  
  There are catagories of folk here.  All meditators, some who 
could 
  like to go but who are administratively denied,  some who look 
the 
  other way while going, some tru-believer types who make their 
moral 
  chice to look the other way and see no evil, some who simply do 
not 
  condone the bad behaviour and choose not to go  instead meditate 
 in 
  other groups or at home during dome times.  It all is experience 
  driven.  
  
  It is a lot about integrity of consciousness and how people gauge 
 for 
  that.  People make moral choices all the time which 
  are also very much about Maharishi's integrity.  Your comments 
are 
  entirely common here around the TMorg, even people living on 
campus 
  or up in Vedic City.  It is fascinating to watch.  
  
  It is about character and integrity and people deal with it in a 
  variety of ways.  That they (Maharishi and the TM0rg) could not 
  acheive the numbers for the Maharishi Effect without hiring 
people 
  and importing pundits,  still try to separate people from their 
  money after all the other fundraising  conversion of assets?  
  
  People sit with it differently but the numbers in the aggregate 
  medtitating community have not been good for the TMorg for a 
 while.   
  It is also about integrity in the marketplace and the 
  meditating community.  Maharishi seemed to have fallen in the 
scale 
  of things.  So it is.  I am quite hopeful in the end because 
there 
  are so many really good people around here.  It still is a great 
  spiritual practice community to be in, like that Iowa 
motto, Iowa, 
 a 
  great place to grow.  There is also an enduring collective hope 
 and 
  prayer that Maharishi and the TMorg will grow out of its bad 
  behaviours and spiritual arrogance.  He's got time left in him 
yet.
  
  --Doug in FF
 
 An american posing as an expert in character, intergrity and moral 
 issues ? I'm sorry, but HAHAHA !

You are SO RIGHT!! Look at that American John Hagelin!! A perfect 
example! Talk about someone thinking he is morally superior! And then 
there's the character and integrity issue! He has none! Heaven help 
the American TMO! 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[Peter]

--- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend
 jstein@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
 no_reply@ 
 wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
 drpetersutphen@ 
  wrote:

 People make a mistake when they view
 advaitin
 teachings as presenting conceptual models of
 Realization for a waking state intellect.
 For the
 waking state intellect they are obviously
 lacking as
 you and others have pointed out. It doesn't
 mean what
 they say is false or wrong, its just that
 they are
 meant to be applied in two ways: as a tool
 for
 transcendence or as a conceptual
 understanding of a
 direct experience that you are having.
 Contrast this
 with MMY's teaching which presents a
 conceptual model
 of Realization for a waking state intellect.
 The
 waking state mind has something to chew
 on...

I would add, and to cling to, as a mechanism
 for
keeping the actual experience of realization
 away...
   
   And some waking-state minds cling to this notion
   about other waking-state minds, fervently
 believing
   (hoping?) that these other minds chew on the
 conceptual
   model in order to keep the actual experience of
   realization away, when in fact chewing on and
   clinging to aren't necessarily always joined
 at the
   hip (especially when one has the regular
 experience
   of transcending).
  snip
 
  Yep, important distinction to make- that with the
 regular 
  experience of transcending, that clinging will
 eventually
  give way.
 
 Or there is no clinging to begin with, just 
 chewing.  With repeated transcending, you can't
 get enough of a grip on the conceptual model to
 cling to it.  Nor does chewing get in the way;
 rather, it helps dissolve the model bit by bit
 as it's constantly being modified by experience.
 The more you chew, the more the model turns into
 a mush, and the more you have to just swallow and
 be done with it.
 
 Chewing is a terrific metaphor for the process!
 
 Another aspect of this is that in contemplating
 the conceptual model in any depth, paradoxically,
 logic *itself* tells you why it's the wrong tool
 for the job.  That's a very liberating recognition
 that actually brings the model within a hair's-
 breadth of the experience, to where you can just
 step smoothly right over the gap.  (Especially,
 again, if you've been transcending regularly, so
 you aren't stepping into unfamiliar territory,
 as it were.)

I like where you ran with this post, Judy! I agree.
That would be using the model as part of a sadhana, a
tool to bring, as MMY would say, the point value to
the infinite value. 


 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Turq's description seems closer to an intellectual argument  
 presented to those practicing more of a mindfulness technique while 
 remaining in the waking state, so the challenge is constantly to the 
 waking state ego, stated in terms of the waking state ego. Without 
 the unwinding that continual transcending brings about, this 
 technique seems most useful if practiced in direct proximity to an 
 enlightened Master. Otherwise, there is no opportunity for the 
 required purification to take place in order to experience 
 Realization.

No purification is required to experience realization.
Realization is present at every moment and has always 
been present at every moment of one's life. There was
no moment in which one was ever *not* realized. 

Not realizing one's enlightenment is a choice, not a 
matter of a clogged or impure nervous system. 

IMO, of course. Your mileage may vary.

[FairfieldLife] Re: JAMA Caper

[Richard J. Williams]

  There seems to be some confusion on this: Chopra at the time
  WAS the TMO and he owned MAPI and the Lancaster Foundation.
 
jstein wrote:
 No, he owned neither, as you know.  (And MAPI, of
 course, as you know, was not involved in the suit.)

From what I've read, Chopra founded and owned MAPI and the Lancaster
Foundation; Chopra was a plaintive in the suit against JAMA, the AMA,
and Skolnick. 
 
  Apparently Chopra was a Plaintive in the suit. 
 
 No, he was not a plaintiff in the suit.  

According to Chopra's attorney, the case was settled for an
undisclosed amount. 

 There isn't any confusion about it at all, other than 
 the confusion you're attempting to create.

From what I've read, you seem confused. For example, you didn't seem
to realize that I was refering to Skolnick's Hoodwinked article -
that's why this thread is entitled the JAMA Caper. In addition, you
don't seem to want to admit that Chopra sued JAMA when he was the
owner of MAPI and the Lancaster Foundation. Apparently the reason
Skolnick raised objections was because of Chopra's conflict of
interest in MAPI. Go figure.

From: Andrew A. Skolnick
Date: Mon, Jul 12 1999 12:00 am
Groups: alt.meditation.transcendental, sci.skeptic
Subject: TM bullying of news media
http://tinyurl.com/wcwcx

TM apologists continue to lie that their SLAPP suit against the editor
of JAMA, the AMA, and me was settled in their effort to discredit
JAMA's article exposing the TM mvoement's deceitful marketing tactics.
For example, Chopra's attorney even lied to Newsweek that we had
settled with Chopra and the other plaintiffs for an undisclosed amount
(Newsweek, Oct. 30, 1997, page 57). 

From: Judy Stein
Date: Sun, May 30 1999 12:00 am
Groups: alt.meditation.transcendental, sci.skeptic
Subject: Move Over Maharishi
http://tinyurl.com/worhk

At some point after the preliminary injunction ruling, plaintiffs
moved to have Deepak Chopra, who had been extensively and viciously
disparaged by name in Andrew's article, added as a plaintiff. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Vyaasa's bhaaSya: entering another's body (III 37), part 1

[Richard J. Williams]

cardemaister wrote:
 loliibhuutasya manaso 'pratiSThasya sharire 
 karmaashayavashaad bandhaH pratiSThetyarthaH |
 tasya karmaNo bandhakaaraNasya shaithilyaM
 samaadhibalaad bhavati | pracaarasaMvedanaM
 ca cittasya samaadhijameva | karmabandhakSayaat
 svacittasya pracaarasaMvedanaacca yogii cittaM
 svashariiraanniSkRtya shariiraantareSu nikSipati |
 nikSiptaM cittam cendriyaaNyanu patanti | yathaa
 madhukararaajaanaM makSikaa utpatantamanuutpatanti
 nivishamaanamanu nivishante tathendriaaNi para-
 shariiraaveshe cittamanu vidhiiyanta iti |

You don't seem to be aware of Shankara's sub-commentary on Vyaasa's
Commentary on Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. What's up with that?

[FairfieldLife] Lynch's 'Inland Empire'

[Richard J. Williams]

In the arthouse world, David Lynch's self-distribbed, experimental
Inland Empire will roll out in limited release in Boston and Gotham.

Read more:

'Apocalypto a box office wild card'
By Ian Mohr
Variety, December 7, 2006
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117955277.html?categoryid=13cs=1

[FairfieldLife] Re: Moral Choices, Build another pundit campus?

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
  wrote:
 snip Yeah, yours is a good synopsis of how a lot of meditator 
 people feel 
  here.  It (hold the nose and go) is a moral choice and also about 
  integrity.  You live in FF and count yourself in the domes?  You 
 go 
  to the domes?  Would you if you live here?
 
 My take on the TMO is more conceptual than experiential at this 
 point, and I hope my response didn't sound like I was excusing them 
 for anything. Personally I meditate twice a day. I no longer do the 
 TM-Siddhis program (though I continue sanyama ;-)), live in Northern 
 California, and would not consider moving to Fairfield and doing a 
 dome program. I also have minimal contact with the TM Center here in 
 the Bay Area.


And I marvel at how these rumors turn in to massive tales of misappropriation 
of funds 
and so on, like the Varma Family Compound thing.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ 
   wrote:
   
I know you have to go. But this is really important: Tell me 
   about 
your new line of coffee. 

David Lynch Signature Cup. It's the coffee I drink. And I 
 really 
   love 
drinking coffee. 

 I've heard that. I wish we had some right now. 

Yeah! So it's gonna be sold on the site at first, and then 
 it's 
   going 
into stores. Yesterday I was at the Brattle Theatre in Boston 
   [actually 
Cambridge, Mass.], and they want, you know, to put it in the 
   lobby. It 
would be very cool if it was in art houses. It's a filmmaker's 
   coffee. 
But a coffee that all people, I hope, will enjoy. It's really 
   good. 


 http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2006/12/07/btm/index.html
   
   I wonder if anyone else has noted that the most public proponent 
 of 
   TM these days is addicted to cigarettes and coffee?
  
  
  Blazing Brahma. For all you know, he's Gurdev reincarnated...
 
 He is definitely not Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswati, reincarnated. 
 His Holiness has not incarnated on the earth at this time. Why do 
 you suggest such things?


Sigh. Like taking candy from a baby...


YOU were the one that suggested that behavior could not be used to judge 
someone's 
level of enlightenment to ME, recently, and yet here you are, complaining about 
Lynch's 
addictions.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote:
 
  People make a mistake when they view advaitin
  teachings as presenting conceptual models of
  Realization for a waking state intellect. For the
  waking state intellect they are obviously lacking as
  you and others have pointed out. It doesn't mean what
  they say is false or wrong, its just that they are
  meant to be applied in two ways: as a tool for
  transcendence or as a conceptual understanding of a
  direct experience that you are having. Contrast this
  with MMY's teaching which presents a conceptual model
  of Realization for a waking state intellect. The
  waking state mind has something to chew on...
 
 I would add, and to cling to, as a mechanism for
 keeping the actual experience of realization away...

But in MMY's model, CC, at least, is inevitable. It is merely a product of a 
transition in how 
the brain works. In MMY's model, all the intellectual theory is meant to do is 
provide a 
comfortable interpretation of this transition to alleviate the discomfort that 
might arise 
from intellectual confusion.

This intellectual confusion is not to be confused with the dark night of the 
sould type of 
unsressing that someone might undergo during the last stage of the transition.

 
  ...as it
  were, and functions as a belief system to motivate the
  seeker to continue doing sadhana. The real value is in
  the sadhana, day in and day out, doing the program,
  not in the conceptual model. But once Realization
  occurs, the wakingstate model doesn't fit anymore. It
  is recognized as a useful fiction for waking state
  sadhana. Only in Realization do the advaitin teachings
  make any conceptual sense. Prior to Realization they
  appear to deny the rather clear experience of the
  space-time reality of waking state.
 
 Well said. 
 
 In general, those who don't get the advaita 
 approach have not had the direct experience of
 realization. For those who have, they make sense.


You're acquainted with numerous people who have had the direct experience of 
realization, and are able to generalize this way based on experience, or are 
you speaking 
of what your own tradition says, or are you merely making things up because it 
fits with 
your own expectations?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusos108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ 
  wrote:
  
   I know you have to go. But this is really important: Tell me 
  about 
   your new line of coffee. 
   
   David Lynch Signature Cup. It's the coffee I drink. And I really 
  love 
   drinking coffee. 
   
I've heard that. I wish we had some right now. 
   
   Yeah! So it's gonna be sold on the site at first, and then it's 
  going 
   into stores. Yesterday I was at the Brattle Theatre in Boston 
  [actually 
   Cambridge, Mass.], and they want, you know, to put it in the 
  lobby. It 
   would be very cool if it was in art houses. It's a filmmaker's 
  coffee. 
   But a coffee that all people, I hope, will enjoy. It's really 
  good. 
   
   http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2006/12/07/btm/index.html
  
  I wonder if anyone else has noted that the most public proponent of 
  TM these days is addicted to cigarettes and coffee?
 
 Most ? Who else than DL ?


Donovan, John Hagelin, Heather Graham, probably others. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: JAMA Caper

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams 
 willytex@ wrote:
 
Chopra did sue Skolnick
   
  jstein wrote: 
   No, as you know, Chopra did not sue Skolnick.
   
  There seems to be some confusion on this: Chopra at the time
  WAS the TMO and he owned MAPI and the Lancaster Foundation.
 
 No, he owned neither, as you know.  (And MAPI, of
 course, as you know, was not involved in the suit.)
 
  Apparently Chopra
  was a Plaintive in the suit. What's up with that?
 
 No, he was not a plaintiff in the suit.  There isn't
 any confusion about it at all, other than the 
 confusion you're attempting to create.


Chopra was founder of MAPI, I THINK, and was head of MAAA and AAAP ((or some 
such). 
He was NOT the head of any profit-making organization at the time of the 
article,though 
he should have put any past and current affiliations into his financial 
disclosure form to 
avoid giving JAMA any ammo in the war they were waging against alternative 
medicine 
during that period.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
jflanegi@ 
  wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante 
no_reply@ 
wrote:

 I know you have to go. But this is really important: Tell 
me 
about 
 your new line of coffee. 
 
 David Lynch Signature Cup. It's the coffee I drink. And I 
  really 
love 
 drinking coffee. 
 
  I've heard that. I wish we had some right now. 
 
 Yeah! So it's gonna be sold on the site at first, and then 
  it's 
going 
 into stores. Yesterday I was at the Brattle Theatre in 
Boston 
[actually 
 Cambridge, Mass.], and they want, you know, to put it in 
the 
lobby. It 
 would be very cool if it was in art houses. It's a 
filmmaker's 
coffee. 
 But a coffee that all people, I hope, will enjoy. It's 
really 
good. 
 
 
  http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2006/12/07/btm/index.html

I wonder if anyone else has noted that the most public 
proponent 
  of 
TM these days is addicted to cigarettes and coffee?
   
   
   Blazing Brahma. For all you know, he's Gurdev reincarnated...
  
  He is definitely not Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswati, 
reincarnated. 
  His Holiness has not incarnated on the earth at this time. Why 
do 
  you suggest such things?
 
 
 Sigh. Like taking candy from a baby...
 
 
 YOU were the one that suggested that behavior could not be used to 
judge someone's 
 level of enlightenment to ME, recently, and yet here you are, 
complaining about Lynch's 
 addictions.

I wasn't complaining, just observing. I called them addictions 
because most every time I come across a public mention of Lynch he 
is drinking coffee and/or smoking. It could be that he only does 
those things during public appearances, but my understanding of 
human nature says probably not.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote:
 
  Turq's description seems closer to an intellectual argument  
  presented to those practicing more of a mindfulness technique while 
  remaining in the waking state, so the challenge is constantly to the 
  waking state ego, stated in terms of the waking state ego. Without 
  the unwinding that continual transcending brings about, this 
  technique seems most useful if practiced in direct proximity to an 
  enlightened Master. Otherwise, there is no opportunity for the 
  required purification to take place in order to experience 
  Realization.
 
 No purification is required to experience realization.
 Realization is present at every moment and has always 
 been present at every moment of one's life. There was
 no moment in which one was ever *not* realized. 
 
 Not realizing one's enlightenment is a choice, not a 
 matter of a clogged or impure nervous system. 
 
 IMO, of course. Your mileage may vary.


And your evidence for this is...

Your own experience?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  In general, those who don't get the advaita 
  approach have not had the direct experience of
  realization. For those who have, they make sense.
 
 You're acquainted with numerous people who have had the direct 
 experience of realization, and are able to generalize this way 
 based on experience, or are you speaking of what your own 
 tradition says, or are you merely making things up because it 
 fits with your own expectations?

Door Number One. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
 jflanegi@ 
   wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante 
 no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 
  I know you have to go. But this is really important: Tell 
 me 
 about 
  your new line of coffee. 
  
  David Lynch Signature Cup. It's the coffee I drink. And I 
   really 
 love 
  drinking coffee. 
  
   I've heard that. I wish we had some right now. 
  
  Yeah! So it's gonna be sold on the site at first, and then 
   it's 
 going 
  into stores. Yesterday I was at the Brattle Theatre in 
 Boston 
 [actually 
  Cambridge, Mass.], and they want, you know, to put it in 
 the 
 lobby. It 
  would be very cool if it was in art houses. It's a 
 filmmaker's 
 coffee. 
  But a coffee that all people, I hope, will enjoy. It's 
 really 
 good. 
  
  
   http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2006/12/07/btm/index.html
 
 I wonder if anyone else has noted that the most public 
 proponent 
   of 
 TM these days is addicted to cigarettes and coffee?


Blazing Brahma. For all you know, he's Gurdev reincarnated...
   
   He is definitely not Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswati, 
 reincarnated. 
   His Holiness has not incarnated on the earth at this time. Why 
 do 
   you suggest such things?
  
  
  Sigh. Like taking candy from a baby...
  
  
  YOU were the one that suggested that behavior could not be used to 
 judge someone's 
  level of enlightenment to ME, recently, and yet here you are, 
 complaining about Lynch's 
  addictions.
 
 I wasn't complaining, just observing. I called them addictions 
 because most every time I come across a public mention of Lynch he 
 is drinking coffee and/or smoking. It could be that he only does 
 those things during public appearances, but my understanding of 
 human nature says probably not.


He syas he does them because he enjoys doing them. He had stopped smoking for 
many 
years then decided to start again.

I guess an anology to extreme sports might be appropriate here...

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
wrote:
 
  Turq's description seems closer to an intellectual argument  
  presented to those practicing more of a mindfulness technique 
while 
  remaining in the waking state, so the challenge is constantly to 
the 
  waking state ego, stated in terms of the waking state ego. 
Without 
  the unwinding that continual transcending brings about, this 
  technique seems most useful if practiced in direct proximity to 
an 
  enlightened Master. Otherwise, there is no opportunity for the 
  required purification to take place in order to experience 
  Realization.
 
 No purification is required to experience realization.

Right. The experience of Realization can be had by anyone, any time. 
But in order to sustain Realization, purification must occur. I 
think it was Muktananda who said instant enlightenment is just that; 
it lasts for an instant.

 Realization is present at every moment and has always 
 been present at every moment of one's life. There was
 no moment in which one was ever *not* realized.

It is the functioning of the nervous system that prevents the 
relaization of Realization though. aka maya. 
 
 Not realizing one's enlightenment is a choice, not a 
 matter of a clogged or impure nervous system.

Rather than words like clogged and impure which can imply judgment, 
my experience is that the self gets twisted and must become 
untwisted or unwound.

I agree that the desire for Realization is a choice, however it is 
the purification of one's self resulting from this mature, sustained 
desire that grows eventually into sustained Realization. 

Although I think of it and experience it as a purification of the 
nervous system, it is a purification so profound on the one hand, 
and subtle on the other, that I doubt my subjective experience would 
conform to a scientifically sanctioned definition of the nervous 
system. 
 
 IMO, of course. Your mileage may vary.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Moral Choices, Build another pundit campus?

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
  dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
jflanegi@ 
   wrote:
  snip Yeah, yours is a good synopsis of how a lot of meditator 
  people feel 
   here.  It (hold the nose and go) is a moral choice and also 
about 
   integrity.  You live in FF and count yourself in the domes?  
You 
  go 
   to the domes?  Would you if you live here?
  
  My take on the TMO is more conceptual than experiential at this 
  point, and I hope my response didn't sound like I was excusing 
them 
  for anything. Personally I meditate twice a day. I no longer do 
the 
  TM-Siddhis program (though I continue sanyama ;-)), live in 
Northern 
  California, and would not consider moving to Fairfield and doing 
a 
  dome program. I also have minimal contact with the TM Center 
here in 
  the Bay Area.
 
 
 And I marvel at how these rumors turn in to massive tales of 
misappropriation of funds 
 and so on, like the Varma Family Compound thing.

Yep, from intense concentration on the Master.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@
wrote:
  
   Turq's description seems closer to an intellectual argument  
   presented to those practicing more of a mindfulness technique 
   while remaining in the waking state, so the challenge is 
   constantly to the waking state ego, stated in terms of the 
   waking state ego. Without the unwinding that continual 
   transcending brings about, this technique seems most useful 
   if practiced in direct proximity to an enlightened Master. 
   Otherwise, there is no opportunity for the required 
   purification to take place in order to experience 
   Realization.
  
  No purification is required to experience realization.
  Realization is present at every moment and has always 
  been present at every moment of one's life. There was
  no moment in which one was ever *not* realized. 
  
  Not realizing one's enlightenment is a choice, not a 
  matter of a clogged or impure nervous system. 
  
  IMO, of course. Your mileage may vary.
 
 And your evidence for this is...
 
 Your own experience?

Yup. And that of dozens of my friends and hundreds
of people within the traditions I have studied.
They have actually *had* the experience of realization,
unlike some traditions that can only talk about it in
theory and come up with excuses for why *their* students
*don't* have the experience itself. 

Your nervous system isn't pure enough yet. You need to
'purify.' Just keep paying us the money we ask for and 
keep coming to these courses. Someday you'll be pure
enough to experience what you already are.

Yeah, right.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusos108 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -
  He is definitely not Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswati, 
reincarnated. 
  His Holiness has not incarnated on the earth at this time. Why 
do 
  you suggest such things?
 
 Hello Jim ! You seem to possess Knowledge due to Sattwa in your 
life.
  
 And you are right, Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswathi is not in 
 incarnation at present. But He is very much looking after the 
 wellbeing of this earth and it's inhabitants, being one of the 
most 
 illustrious of Masters. And no, contrary to widespread 
speculation, 
 He has not left this solarsystem to take care of other 
 responsebilities.
  
 During those years at His feet Maharishi received blessings of 
untold 
 magnitude. 
 
 In terms of states of consciousness, Guru Dev reached 6.0 in His 
 lifetime according to Benjamin Creme. Jesus of Nasareth reached 
4.0. 
 Leonardo Da Vinci 5.0. 
 Maitreya, our eldest Brother, is on 7.0.
  
 Kind of sets Guru Dev's accomplishments during that lifetime in an 
 startling light, don't you think ? According to Maharishi, all of 
the 
 Masters in our Tradition rose to Masterhood from the level of 
 ignorance. If the Masters of our Tradition could reach such a 
level, 
 could we also not ?!
 
I recall an answer of Maharishi's from an interview 35 years ago(?)
when he was asked as one man how he would spread enlightenment 
throughout the world and he said something like he would make copies 
of himself.

[FairfieldLife] Re: JAMA Caper

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   There seems to be some confusion on this: Chopra at the time
   WAS the TMO and he owned MAPI and the Lancaster Foundation.
  
 jstein wrote:
  No, he owned neither, as you know.  (And MAPI, of
  course, as you know, was not involved in the suit.)
 
 From what I've read, Chopra founded and owned MAPI
 and the Lancaster Foundation;

Founded, as you know, did not own.  MAPI itself,
as you know, was not involved in the suit.  At the
time Letter from New Delhi was published, as you
know, Chopra was a consultant to MAPI.

 Chopra was a plaintive in the suit against JAMA, the AMA,
 and Skolnick.

No, Chopra was never a plaintiff in the suit, as
you know.

   Apparently Chopra was a Plaintive in the suit. 
  
  No, he was not a plaintiff in the suit.  
 
 According to Chopra's attorney, the case was settled for an
 undisclosed amount. 

If Chopra's attorney said that, as you know, he
was either lying or didn't know what he was talking
about.  As you know, there was no settlement in the
suit; it was dismissed.

  There isn't any confusion about it at all, other than 
  the confusion you're attempting to create.
 
 From what I've read, you seem confused. For example, you
 didn't seem to realize that I was refering to 
 Skolnick's Hoodwinked article - that's why this thread is 
 entitled the JAMA Caper.

No, actually you were referring to Skolnick's JAMA
article, as you know.

 In addition, you
 don't seem to want to admit that Chopra sued JAMA

Chopra did not sue JAMA, as you know.

 when he was the
 owner of MAPI and the Lancaster Foundation.

Chopra did not own MAPI or the Lancaster Foundation,
as you know.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
snip
   No purification is required to experience realization.
   Realization is present at every moment and has always 
   been present at every moment of one's life. There was
   no moment in which one was ever *not* realized. 
   
   Not realizing one's enlightenment is a choice, not a 
   matter of a clogged or impure nervous system. 
   
   IMO, of course. Your mileage may vary.
  
  And your evidence for this is...
  
  Your own experience?
 
 Yup. And that of dozens of my friends and hundreds
 of people within the traditions I have studied.
 They have actually *had* the experience of realization,
 unlike some traditions that can only talk about it in
 theory and come up with excuses for why *their* students
 *don't* have the experience itself.

Which traditions would those be?

[FairfieldLife] Nisargadatta Maharaj

[hyperbolicgeometry]

One might construe N's orientation as being fully non-attached ...or 
not; perhaps he lacks interest in relative considerations. Being 
external obserers, we don't know what the true situation is for sure. 
It's analogous to a Turing machine test: either a computer or a real 
person is answering questions behind some opaque substance which blocks 
our vision of the speaker.  We are required to guess whether the 
speaker is a computer or a real person, based solely on the content of 
the answers.
 Short of magical knowledge or cheating, our decision must be based on 
common sense considerations.
By analogy, consider the case of Nisagardatta Maharaj. Is his apparent 
lack of interest in things relative evidence of some deeper, more 
profound Realization than than possessed by MMY?  I think not.
 Simply because MMY expresses more interest in things relative than N, 
such as accumulating wealth, establishing Heaven on Earth, etc; this 
cannot (IMO) be constued as evidence that MMY's realization falls short 
of N's.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[Vaj]

On Dec 8, 2006, at 4:54 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:


Yup. And that of dozens of my friends and hundreds
of people within the traditions I have studied.
They have actually *had* the experience of realization,
unlike some traditions that can only talk about it in
theory and come up with excuses for why *their* students
*don't* have the experience itself.

Your nervous system isn't pure enough yet. You need to
'purify.' Just keep paying us the money we ask for and
keep coming to these courses. Someday you'll be pure
enough to experience what you already are.

Yeah, right.



A turning in the seat of consciousness doesn't depend on a  
purification of a nervous system or certain brain wave styles or even  
a transcending mind.


It's like Nike says Just do it. No doer required. Ego still  
optional. May not be available in some areas, but is present  
everywhere, at all times. ;-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 snip
No purification is required to experience realization.
Realization is present at every moment and has always 
been present at every moment of one's life. There was
no moment in which one was ever *not* realized. 

Not realizing one's enlightenment is a choice, not a 
matter of a clogged or impure nervous system. 

IMO, of course. Your mileage may vary.
   
   And your evidence for this is...
   
   Your own experience?
  
  Yup. And that of dozens of my friends and hundreds
  of people within the traditions I have studied.
  They have actually *had* the experience of realization,
  unlike some traditions that can only talk about it in
  theory and come up with excuses for why *their* students
  *don't* have the experience itself.
 
 Which traditions would those be?

it sounds like 'Shamanism', only its called 'Strawmanism'...:-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 No purification is required to experience realization.
 Realization is present at every moment and has always 
 been present at every moment of one's life. There was
 no moment in which one was ever *not* realized. 
 
 Not realizing one's enlightenment is a choice, not a 
 matter of a clogged or impure nervous system. 
 
 IMO, of course. Your mileage may vary.

Another way of looking at it is that realizing
enlightenment is a choice that becomes available
only once the nervous system is been sufficiently
purified (or untwisted, to use Jim's term).

Still another way of looking at it is that it is
a choice *only in retrospect*, i.e., from the
perspective of realization, but not from the 
waking-state perspective (Knowledge is different
in different states of consciousness).

The very nature of choice is different in
different states of consciousness.

That one is always already realized is 
irrelevant, a red herring.  That is a realization
that comes *with realization*.  Hearing this in
waking state, as intellectual knowledge, does not
facilitate realization (unless perhaps one is
right on the brink and hears it from a realized
master as a mahavakya).

It's an interesting bit of theoretical information,
but to use it as an exhortation or as a putdown is
just silly (especially from those who are themselves
still in waking state).

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
  wrote:
  snip
 No purification is required to experience realization.
 Realization is present at every moment and has always 
 been present at every moment of one's life. There was
 no moment in which one was ever *not* realized. 
 
 Not realizing one's enlightenment is a choice, not a 
 matter of a clogged or impure nervous system. 
 
 IMO, of course. Your mileage may vary.

And your evidence for this is...

Your own experience?
   
   Yup. And that of dozens of my friends and hundreds
   of people within the traditions I have studied.
   They have actually *had* the experience of realization,
   unlike some traditions that can only talk about it in
   theory and come up with excuses for why *their* students
   *don't* have the experience itself.
  
  Which traditions would those be?
 
 it sounds like 'Shamanism', only its called 'Strawmanism'...:-)

Gosh, I never woulda guessed...

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[yhvhworld]

---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV of your 
Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization 
requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu is 
missing an important point regarding bodily purification; and...I 
contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is 
superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is superior to 
yours.  Just look at the facts.

 In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 8, 2006, at 4:54 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:
 
  Yup. And that of dozens of my friends and hundreds
  of people within the traditions I have studied.
  They have actually *had* the experience of realization,
  unlike some traditions that can only talk about it in
  theory and come up with excuses for why *their* students
  *don't* have the experience itself.
 
  Your nervous system isn't pure enough yet. You need to
  'purify.' Just keep paying us the money we ask for and
  keep coming to these courses. Someday you'll be pure
  enough to experience what you already are.
 
  Yeah, right.
 
 
 A turning in the seat of consciousness doesn't depend on a  
 purification of a nervous system or certain brain wave styles or 
even  
 a transcending mind.
 
 It's like Nike says Just do it. No doer required. Ego still  
 optional. May not be available in some areas, but is present  
 everywhere, at all times. ;-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[Vaj]

On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote:


---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV of your
Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization
requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu is
missing an important point regarding bodily purification; and...I
contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is
superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is superior to
yours.  Just look at the facts.



You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students recently  
going insane?


Thanks for reminding me.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote:
 
  ---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV of 
your
  Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization
  requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu is
  missing an important point regarding bodily purification; and...I
  contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is
  superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is superior 
to
  yours.  Just look at the facts.
 
 
 You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students
 recently going insane?

Are you referring to the one who became clinically
depressed after her beloved husband died too young?

 Thanks for reminding me.

Hey, remind us too, Vaj.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Nisargadatta Maharaj

[Peter]

--- hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 One might construe N's orientation as being fully
 non-attached ...or 
 not; perhaps he lacks interest in relative
 considerations. Being 
 external obserers, we don't know what the true
 situation is for sure. 
 It's analogous to a Turing machine test: either a
 computer or a real 
 person is answering questions behind some opaque
 substance which blocks 
 our vision of the speaker.  We are required to guess
 whether the 
 speaker is a computer or a real person, based solely
 on the content of 
 the answers.
  Short of magical knowledge or cheating, our
 decision must be based on 
 common sense considerations.
 By analogy, consider the case of Nisagardatta
 Maharaj. Is his apparent 
 lack of interest in things relative evidence of some
 deeper, more 
 profound Realization than than possessed by MMY?  I
 think not.
  Simply because MMY expresses more interest in
 things relative than N, 
 such as accumulating wealth, establishing Heaven on
 Earth, etc; this 
 cannot (IMO) be constued as evidence that MMY's
 realization falls short 
 of N's.

Who said it fell short? MMY is as hollow and empty as
N's and vice versa.




 
 
 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!' 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 



 

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[Peter]

--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
 drpetersutphen@ wrote:
  
   People make a mistake when they view advaitin
   teachings as presenting conceptual models of
   Realization for a waking state intellect. For
 the
   waking state intellect they are obviously
 lacking as
   you and others have pointed out. It doesn't mean
 what
   they say is false or wrong, its just that they
 are
   meant to be applied in two ways: as a tool for
   transcendence or as a conceptual understanding
 of a
   direct experience that you are having. Contrast
 this
   with MMY's teaching which presents a conceptual
 model
   of Realization for a waking state intellect. The
   waking state mind has something to chew on...
  
  I would add, and to cling to, as a mechanism for
  keeping the actual experience of realization
 away...
 
 But in MMY's model, CC, at least, is inevitable. It
 is merely a product of a transition in how 
 the brain works.

I don't see CC as a product of brain functioning.
Brain functioning is reflected in the functioning of
mind and vice versa. Consciousness realizing its own
unlocalized nature will profoundly effect brain
functioning but not the other way around.


 In MMY's model, all the
 intellectual theory is meant to do is provide a 
 comfortable interpretation of this transition to
 alleviate the discomfort that might arise 
 from intellectual confusion.

MMY's model is great for a waking state understanding
of Realization. After Realization the knowledge to
understand what is happening is there, but it is not
conceptualized as it was in waking state prior to
Realization. Many, if not all, of the waking state
assumptions regarding Realization and many other
things are radically alter after Realization. There is
not a continuum of S/self from waking state into CC.
That is an assumption of the waking state intellect
because it doesn't have a friggin' clue what will
happen in Realization. How can it? It only knows
waking state. There is a radical change in conceptual
understanding of Realization from waking state to the
intellect functioning in Realization. Realization can
not be conceived in waking state, but the waking state
intellect doesn't know that. 


 
  
   ...as it
   were, and functions as a belief system to
 motivate the
   seeker to continue doing sadhana. The real value
 is in
   the sadhana, day in and day out, doing the
 program,
   not in the conceptual model. But once
 Realization
   occurs, the wakingstate model doesn't fit
 anymore. It
   is recognized as a useful fiction for waking
 state
   sadhana. Only in Realization do the advaitin
 teachings
   make any conceptual sense. Prior to Realization
 they
   appear to deny the rather clear experience of
 the
   space-time reality of waking state.
  
  Well said. 
  
  In general, those who don't get the advaita 
  approach have not had the direct experience of
  realization. For those who have, they make sense.
 
 
 You're acquainted with numerous people who have had
 the direct experience of 
 realization, and are able to generalize this way
 based on experience, or are you speaking 
 of what your own tradition says, or are you merely
 making things up because it fits with 
 your own expectations?
 
 
 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!' 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 



 

Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.  Try it now.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 
  
  On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote:
  
   ---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV 
of 
 your
   Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization
   requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu 
is
   missing an important point regarding bodily purification; 
and...I
   contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is
   superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is 
superior 
 to
   yours.  Just look at the facts.
  
  
  You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students
  recently going insane?
 
 Are you referring to the one who became clinically
 depressed after her beloved husband died too young?
 
  Thanks for reminding me.
 
 Hey, remind us too, Vaj.

from The Noble Eightfold Path on Wikipedia:
Right speech (samyag-vâc · sammâ-vâcâ), as the name implies, deals 
with the way in which a Buddhist practitioner would best make use of 
his or her words. In the Magga-vibhanga Sutta, this aspect of the 
Noble Eightfold Path is explained as follows:

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, abstaining from 
divisive speech, abstaining from abusive speech, abstaining from 
idle chatter: This, monks, is called right speech.
Walpola Rahula glosses this by stating that not engaging in 
such forms of wrong and harmful speech ultimately means that one 
naturally has to speak the truth, has to use words that are friendly 
and benevolent, pleasant and gentle, meaningful and useful.

I guess Vaj has a way to go...oh well, at least he is in 
the 'initial' stages.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis]

Torquise B srites snipped:
 No purification is required to experience realization.

Jim Flanegin writes snipped from longer piece:
Right. The experience of Realization can be had by anyone, any time. 
But in order to sustain Realization, purification must occur. I 
think it was Muktananda who said instant enlightenment is just that; 
it lasts for an instant.

TomT;
Jean Kline woke up in 1955 passed in 1998. The awakening was
instantanious, clarity takes place in space-time.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[Marek Reavis]

Comment below:

**

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

**Snip**

 
 Still another way of looking at it is that it is
 a choice *only in retrospect*, i.e., from the
 perspective of realization, but not from the 
 waking-state perspective (Knowledge is different
 in different states of consciousness).
 

**End**

This (above), is backwards.  Realization is the extinction of even
the concept of choice.  It's in the so-called waking state where
choice (like waking state) appears to exist.  

Realization is that it doesn't.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Build another pundit campus?

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@
   wrote:
   
Instead of temporarily moving 100 Mother Divine onto the MUM
   campus
and using the already-built trailer park for 500 of its
  originally-
intended pundit-occupants, Bevan and John want you to give
   generously
to build another pundit campus -- not surprisingly, 250 people
  who
pledged to donate once the pundits got here are keeping their
   hands
in their pockets:
   
   
Subject: Preparing for 1000 Vedic Pandits
   
 http://invincibleamerica.org
   
   snip
  
   Though the stated aims are different, is this incessant
 fundraising
   at MUM really any different than that which goes on at any
   university? How do Stanford and Harvard get their billion dollar
   endowments? People wake up one day and decide, Gee I guess I'll
  make
   a substantial contribution to my alma mater...? Nope- it is the
  same
   kind of deluge of mailings, phone calls, fund raising events
 that
   occurs at MUM. Kind of a big yawn, dont'cha think?
  
 
  *
 
  It's clear that all schools do incessant fundraising, so I don't
 have
  a problem with that. It's just that I find the decision to not use
  the original pundit campus for the pundits when they finally
 showed
  to be irrational, and so apparently do 250 people who pledged to
  support the pundits, but are not kicking in as promised.

 Agreed- I am not advocating that those people who pledged pay
 either.
 
  Mother Divine could easily move onto campus for a while, and a
  facility that is better suited to their numbers (100) could be
 build
  in VC, freeing up the original VC trailer park for 500 pundits.
 This
  new MD facility should be able to be built for ~$1 million, maybe
  even stickbuilt for that price? The original pundit campus cost
 $2.2
  million to build, so using it for pundit housing saves a lot of
  money, and MD should have a better facility than they are now
 using.
  Bevan's  argument is that all the pundits should be together, but
  since the original pundit trailer park is on 40 acres, there is
  plenty of room to put another similar trailer park on the same
 site,
  to accomodate the 1000 they are talking about bringing in. The
  recently-arrived trailers (so far they have enough housing for 120
  pundits) on the 80 acre site can be used for Purusha or other
 groups,
  or even MD.
 
 Sounds like a fundraising ploy to me.

Just keep that land and buildings comming, OK? 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[nablusos108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusos108 
 nablusos108@ wrote:
 
  -
   He is definitely not Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswati, 
 reincarnated. 
   His Holiness has not incarnated on the earth at this time. Why 
 do 
   you suggest such things?
  
  Hello Jim ! You seem to possess Knowledge due to Sattwa in your 
 life.
   
  And you are right, Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswathi is not in 
  incarnation at present. But He is very much looking after the 
  wellbeing of this earth and it's inhabitants, being one of the 
 most 
  illustrious of Masters. And no, contrary to widespread 
 speculation, 
  He has not left this solarsystem to take care of other 
  responsebilities.
   
  During those years at His feet Maharishi received blessings of 
 untold 
  magnitude. 
  
  In terms of states of consciousness, Guru Dev reached 6.0 in His 
  lifetime according to Benjamin Creme. Jesus of Nasareth reached 
 4.0. 
  Leonardo Da Vinci 5.0. 
  Maitreya, our eldest Brother, is on 7.0.
   
  Kind of sets Guru Dev's accomplishments during that lifetime in 
an 
  startling light, don't you think ? According to Maharishi, all of 
 the 
  Masters in our Tradition rose to Masterhood from the level of 
  ignorance. If the Masters of our Tradition could reach such a 
 level, 
  could we also not ?!
  
 I recall an answer of Maharishi's from an interview 35 years ago(?)
 when he was asked as one man how he would spread enlightenment 
 throughout the world and he said something like he would make 
copies 
 of himself.

I will multiply myself. Great quote. It was an answer to how He 
possibly could reach all the people on this globe with the knowledge 
in one lifetime. Everyone thought He reffered to training teachers. 
Your angel could be more accurate :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[mathatbrahman]

---You mean the question of free will.  The jury's out on this 
question, which we (and philosophers going back thousands of years), 
have gone over before.  Choice may or may not really exist; but in 
any event, our lack of knowledge concerning the future, and karmic 
interactions in general, serve us a plate of alternative apparent 
choices, and there's currently no proof as to the nature of 
the realness. I realize that some Gurus - like Ramana Maharshi - 
say there's no free will; but why should his statement be believed; 
especially in view of the statements regarding karma: that karma is 
unfathomable - even for Sages?.  Ramana is a Sage but this doesn't 
make him an expert in karma.  There are no experts in karma, and 
there's no proof or even evidence for Ramana's assertion, other than 
the appeal to authority. (but in regard to the appeal to authorities, 
I wouldn't trust MMY to guide anybody in matters of economics). 

 In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Comment below:
 
 **
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
 **Snip**
 
  
  Still another way of looking at it is that it is
  a choice *only in retrospect*, i.e., from the
  perspective of realization, but not from the 
  waking-state perspective (Knowledge is different
  in different states of consciousness).
  
 
 **End**
 
 This (above), is backwards.  Realization is the extinction of even
 the concept of choice.  It's in the so-called waking state where
 choice (like waking state) appears to exist.  
 
 Realization is that it doesn't.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Comment below:
 
 **
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
 **Snip**
 
  
  Still another way of looking at it is that it is
  a choice *only in retrospect*, i.e., from the
  perspective of realization, but not from the 
  waking-state perspective (Knowledge is different
  in different states of consciousness).
 
 **End**
 
 This (above), is backwards.  Realization is the extinction of even
 the concept of choice.  It's in the so-called waking state where
 choice (like waking state) appears to exist.  
 
 Realization is that it doesn't.

Well, that's yet *another* way of looking at it.
The semantics gets very difficult here!

I don't think choice is an appropriate term in
any context or state of consciousness with
regard to realization.  There is no sense in
which one chooses to become (or not become)
realized.  That's the notion of a thoroughly
stuck control freak.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mathatbrahman 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ---You mean the question of free will.  The jury's out on this 
 question, which we (and philosophers going back thousands of 
 years), have gone over before.

If there's a jury involved, the wrong question is
being asked.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[nablusos108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote:
 
  ---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV of 
your
  Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization
  requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu is
  missing an important point regarding bodily purification; and...I
  contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is
  superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is superior 
to
  yours.  Just look at the facts.
 
 
 You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students 
recently  
 going .?
 
 Thanks for reminding me.

Rather that numerous of Maharishis students now are experiencing 
permanent Bliss as a result of patience, dedication and longtime 
purification. These effects are regularily documented in the 
Invincible America course right now.
 
Vaj may not like it, but it is happening. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[Marek Reavis]

Yes.  I totally agree.

And just as an aside, I like your moniker.  I don't use one now, but
when I first posted here I used 'nothoughtdas'.  Kind of fun to get to
play with the name/form thing on a forum like this.  The moniker-thing
is an interesting part of it. 

Nisargadatta never fails to draw a response, right?  Can't help but
love him as a second teacher.  Quite a guy.

Thanks,

Marek

**

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mathatbrahman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ---You mean the question of free will.  The jury's out on this 
 question, which we (and philosophers going back thousands of years), 
 have gone over before.  Choice may or may not really exist; but in 
 any event, our lack of knowledge concerning the future, and karmic 
 interactions in general, serve us a plate of alternative apparent 
 choices, and there's currently no proof as to the nature of 
 the realness. I realize that some Gurus - like Ramana Maharshi - 
 say there's no free will; but why should his statement be believed; 
 especially in view of the statements regarding karma: that karma is 
 unfathomable - even for Sages?.  Ramana is a Sage but this doesn't 
 make him an expert in karma.  There are no experts in karma, and 
 there's no proof or even evidence for Ramana's assertion, other than 
 the appeal to authority. (but in regard to the appeal to authorities, 
 I wouldn't trust MMY to guide anybody in matters of economics). 
 
  In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavismarek@ 
 wrote:
 
  Comment below:
  
  **
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
  **Snip**
  
   
   Still another way of looking at it is that it is
   a choice *only in retrospect*, i.e., from the
   perspective of realization, but not from the 
   waking-state perspective (Knowledge is different
   in different states of consciousness).
   
  
  **End**
  
  This (above), is backwards.  Realization is the extinction of even
  the concept of choice.  It's in the so-called waking state where
  choice (like waking state) appears to exist.  
  
  Realization is that it doesn't.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[nablusos108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mathatbrahman 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ---You mean the question of free will.  The jury's out on this 
 question, which we (and philosophers going back thousands of years), 
 have gone over before.  Choice may or may not really exist; but in 
 any event, our lack of knowledge concerning the future, and karmic 
 interactions in general, serve us a plate of alternative apparent 
 choices, and there's currently no proof as to the nature of 
 the realness. I realize that some Gurus - like Ramana Maharshi - 
 say there's no free will; but why should his statement be believed; 
 especially in view of the statements regarding karma: that karma is 
 unfathomable - even for Sages?.  Ramana is a Sage but this doesn't 
 make him an expert in karma.

Sages like Maharishi and Ramana Maharshi will have different colours in 
their expression of reality. That is life.
Try reading Robert Svobodas third book on his Guru Vimalananda and you 
will find a fellow with very detailed knowledge of Karma indeed. Every 
word in that book is like; if Maharishi would write a book on Karma, 
this is what He would say. Very entertaining, knowledeable, sweet and 
humerous.

  There are no experts in karma, and 
 there's no proof or even evidence for Ramana's assertion, other than 
 the appeal to authority. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[tanhlnx]

---Thanks, I believe I read those 3 books, while standing in the 
local New Age bookstore for 20 min.  I've seen books that taut 
certain Gurus with having supernatural knowledge of past, present, 
and future.  Sai Baba claims to be one of these Omniscient Gurus; but 
invariably, (to dream up a saying akin to P.T.Barnum's): one can 
predict the future some of the time, but nobody can predict the 
future all of the time.

 In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusos108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mathatbrahman 
 mathatbrahman@ wrote:
 
  ---You mean the question of free will.  The jury's out on this 
  question, which we (and philosophers going back thousands of 
years), 
  have gone over before.  Choice may or may not really exist; but 
in 
  any event, our lack of knowledge concerning the future, and 
karmic 
  interactions in general, serve us a plate of 
alternative apparent 
  choices, and there's currently no proof as to the nature of 
  the realness. I realize that some Gurus - like Ramana Maharshi -
 
  say there's no free will; but why should his statement be 
believed; 
  especially in view of the statements regarding karma: that karma 
is 
  unfathomable - even for Sages?.  Ramana is a Sage but this 
doesn't 
  make him an expert in karma.
 
 Sages like Maharishi and Ramana Maharshi will have different 
colours in 
 their expression of reality. That is life.
 Try reading Robert Svobodas third book on his Guru Vimalananda and 
you 
 will find a fellow with very detailed knowledge of Karma indeed. 
Every 
 word in that book is like; if Maharishi would write a book on 
Karma, 
 this is what He would say. Very entertaining, knowledeable, sweet 
and 
 humerous.
 
   There are no experts in karma, and 
  there's no proof or even evidence for Ramana's assertion, other 
than 
  the appeal to authority.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Young Pundits in Love

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A typical Rick post. Some people can't bear to hear of the TMO being
 successful and accomplishing its goals, so they have to stoop as low
as they
 can to try to destabilize things.

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  Reliable rumor has it that
 
  1. Many of the pundits are feeling very antsy in their cloistered
  accommodations.
  2. Many would like to figure out how to get to a big city so is to
get
  a better paying gig and a girlfriend.
 
 
 
  
 
  Rick Archer
  SearchSummit
  1108 South B Street
  Fairfield, IA 52556
  Phone: 641-472-9336
  Fax: 815-572-5842
 

   It's a limited definition of  'success'.  Less than 2000 in group
program afer 20+ years. Meditators dying and or stopping faster than new
meditators starting. Lots of new land and buildings though.  Fundraising
skills being built. The rest of the projected effects are not known yet.

JohnY

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta Maharaj

[nablusos108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hyperbolicgeometry 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 One might construe N's orientation as being fully non-
attached ...or 
 not; perhaps he lacks interest in relative considerations. Being 
 external obserers, we don't know what the true situation is for 
sure. 
 It's analogous to a Turing machine test: either a computer or a 
real 
 person is answering questions behind some opaque substance which 
blocks 
 our vision of the speaker.  We are required to guess whether the 
 speaker is a computer or a real person, based solely on the content 
of 
 the answers.
  Short of magical knowledge or cheating, our decision must be based 
on 
 common sense considerations.
 By analogy, consider the case of Nisagardatta Maharaj. Is his 
apparent 
 lack of interest in things relative evidence of some deeper, more 
 profound Realization than than possessed by MMY?  I think not.
  Simply because MMY expresses more interest in things relative than 
N, 
 such as accumulating wealth, establishing Heaven on Earth, etc; 
this 
 cannot (IMO) be constued as evidence that MMY's realization falls 
short 
 of N's.

Agreed. Masters of different traditions may focus on different 
aspects of life according to their background and primary deity. 
Maharishis 200% philosophy is unique. The relative and the absolute 
is one. The one infuses the other and there is no contradiction. Some 
realized Masters and Yogis, who I have met in India, will swear that 
this is rubbish and can even get quite agitated about this matter. 
Are they wrong ? No. Is Maharishi right ? Yes. Is there a conflict of 
ideas ? No.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusos108 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusos108 
  nablusos108@ wrote:
  
   -
He is definitely not Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswati, 
  reincarnated. 
His Holiness has not incarnated on the earth at this time. 
Why 
  do 
you suggest such things?
   
   Hello Jim ! You seem to possess Knowledge due to Sattwa in 
your 
  life.

   And you are right, Guru Dev, Brahmananda Saraswathi is not in 
   incarnation at present. But He is very much looking after the 
   wellbeing of this earth and it's inhabitants, being one of the 
  most 
   illustrious of Masters. And no, contrary to widespread 
  speculation, 
   He has not left this solarsystem to take care of other 
   responsebilities.

   During those years at His feet Maharishi received blessings of 
  untold 
   magnitude. 
   
   In terms of states of consciousness, Guru Dev reached 6.0 in 
His 
   lifetime according to Benjamin Creme. Jesus of Nasareth 
reached 
  4.0. 
   Leonardo Da Vinci 5.0. 
   Maitreya, our eldest Brother, is on 7.0.

   Kind of sets Guru Dev's accomplishments during that lifetime 
in 
 an 
   startling light, don't you think ? According to Maharishi, all 
of 
  the 
   Masters in our Tradition rose to Masterhood from the level of 
   ignorance. If the Masters of our Tradition could reach such a 
  level, 
   could we also not ?!
   
  I recall an answer of Maharishi's from an interview 35 years ago
(?)
  when he was asked as one man how he would spread enlightenment 
  throughout the world and he said something like he would make 
 copies 
  of himself.
 
 I will multiply myself. Great quote. It was an answer to how He 
 possibly could reach all the people on this globe with the 
knowledge 
 in one lifetime. Everyone thought He reffered to training 
teachers. 
 Your angel could be more accurate :-)

Either way :-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[Vaj]

On Dec 8, 2006, at 9:27 PM, nablusos108 wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote:


---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV of

your

Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization
requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu is
missing an important point regarding bodily purification; and...I
contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is
superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is superior

to

yours.  Just look at the facts.



You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students

recently

going .?

Thanks for reminding me.


Rather that numerous of Maharishis students now are experiencing
permanent Bliss as a result of patience, dedication and longtime
purification. These effects are regularily documented in the
Invincible America course right now.

Vaj may not like it, but it is happening.


More cosmic heroin addicts?

Yeah.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[kaladevi93]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote:
 
  ---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV of your
  Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization
  requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu is
  missing an important point regarding bodily purification; and...I
  contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is
  superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is superior to
  yours.  Just look at the facts.
 
 
 You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students recently  
 going insane?
 
 Thanks for reminding me.


I'm sure Vaj might agree, he's mentioned it before here: Dzogchen begins where 
Unity 
ends. At least that's the gist of Shearer's official comments, right Vaj?

Thanks for having the courage to speak the truth.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kaladevi93 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 
  
  On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote:
  
   ---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV 
of your
   Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization
   requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu is
   missing an important point regarding bodily purification; 
and...I
   contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is
   superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is 
superior to
   yours.  Just look at the facts.
  
  
  You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students 
recently  
  going insane?
  
  Thanks for reminding me.
 
 
 I'm sure Vaj might agree, he's mentioned it before here: Dzogchen 
begins where Unity 
 ends. At least that's the gist of Shearer's official comments, 
right Vaj?
 
 Thanks for having the courage to speak the truth.

Pathological.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[Peter]

--- Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Yes.  I totally agree.
 
 And just as an aside, I like your moniker.  I don't
 use one now, but
 when I first posted here I used 'nothoughtdas'. 
 Kind of fun to get to
 play with the name/form thing on a forum like this. 
 The moniker-thing
 is an interesting part of it. 
 
 Nisargadatta never fails to draw a response, right? 
 Can't help but
 love him as a second teacher.  Quite a guy.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Marek

He didn't suffer fools, that's for sure!



 
 **
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mathatbrahman
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  ---You mean the question of free will.  The jury's
 out on this 
  question, which we (and philosophers going back
 thousands of years), 
  have gone over before.  Choice may or may not
 really exist; but in 
  any event, our lack of knowledge concerning the
 future, and karmic 
  interactions in general, serve us a plate of
 alternative apparent 
  choices, and there's currently no proof as to the
 nature of 
  the realness. I realize that some Gurus - like
 Ramana Maharshi - 
  say there's no free will; but why should his
 statement be believed; 
  especially in view of the statements regarding
 karma: that karma is 
  unfathomable - even for Sages?.  Ramana is a Sage
 but this doesn't 
  make him an expert in karma.  There are no experts
 in karma, and 
  there's no proof or even evidence for Ramana's
 assertion, other than 
  the appeal to authority. (but in regard to the
 appeal to authorities, 
  I wouldn't trust MMY to guide anybody in matters
 of economics). 
  
   In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis
 reavismarek@ 
  wrote:
  
   Comment below:
   
   **
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 authfriend jstein@ wrote:
   
   **Snip**
   

Still another way of looking at it is that it
 is
a choice *only in retrospect*, i.e., from the
perspective of realization, but not from the 
waking-state perspective (Knowledge is
 different
in different states of consciousness).

   
   **End**
   
   This (above), is backwards.  Realization is
 the extinction of even
   the concept of choice.  It's in the so-called
 waking state where
   choice (like waking state) appears to exist.  
   
   Realization is that it doesn't.
  
 
 
 
 
 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!' 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 



 

Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.
Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[matrixmonitor]

---On a conceptual basis, yes...Dzogchen takes place somehow beyond 
all progressions, and (as Vaj so astutely pointed out); doesn't 
involve the transmission of Shakti (unlike Muktananda's Shaktipat).  
But on a practical basis, (as Vaj so unastutely failed to mention); 
one (the aspirant) is still confronted with the problems of ingrained 
inertia, stress, vasanas;...etc; all of the traditional Buddhist (or 
otherwise) impediments to Enlightenment - such as the vices - that 
we may allude to as behavioral patterns connected to stress - that 
simply don't vanish in the blink of an eye when one attends a 
Dzogchen retreat.  Even as pointed out by the greatest of Dzogchen 
Masters (Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche among them - this is Vaj's Guru); the 
element of TIME invariably creeps in, and although one may get it 
(i.e. Grok IT to a certain extent); the fact remains that unless 
one is 99.999% already realized, various impediments dissalow 
one's immediate Enlightenment even though the Dzogchen transmission 
is immediate.
  Unfortunately, most of the Buddhist Gurus (except possibly the 
Dalai Lama and a few others); haven't YET gotten the connection 
between the delay in one's hoped for immediate Enlightenment and the 
stark reality of time, time, time... ; and the possible cause of that 
delay: stress.  But thanks to MMY, we new insights into the 
phenomenon of the progression toward Enlightenment; but at the same 
time, nothing is preventing people from Grok-ing the fact that they 
are already IT. (even though tomorrow morning and the day after, 
one may have to Grok this again).
 Contrary to what the Neo-Advaitins like HWL Poonja would have us 
believe, simply Groking IT for the first time may be insufficient; 
and likewise, simply receiving a Dzogchen transmission a single time 
may not get people immediately Enlightened.  Like it or not, a 
progression of time is usually involved, due to ingrained stresses.
 Though MMY is not really one of my personal Gurus (I'm a devotee of 
Padma Sambhava), may he be praised forever for coming up with TM and 
the connection between progressive Realization and the concept of 
stress release.  Praise God!  But in defense of Dzogchen, one simply 
ditch the attitude that one is not already Pure Consciousness (and 
then continue with the practice of TM tomorrow and the day after, and 
the day after).

 In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kaladevi93 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 
  
  On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote:
  
   ---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV 
of your
   Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization
   requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu is
   missing an important point regarding bodily purification; 
and...I
   contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is
   superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is 
superior to
   yours.  Just look at the facts.
  
  
  You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students 
recently  
  going insane?
  
  Thanks for reminding me.
 
 
 I'm sure Vaj might agree, he's mentioned it before here: Dzogchen 
begins where Unity 
 ends. At least that's the gist of Shearer's official comments, 
right Vaj?
 
 Thanks for having the courage to speak the truth.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kaladevi93 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 
  
  On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote:
  
   ---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV 
of your
   Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization
   requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu 
is
   missing an important point regarding bodily purification; 
and...I
   contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is
   superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is 
superior to
   yours.  Just look at the facts.
  
  
  You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students 
recently  
  going insane?
  
  Thanks for reminding me.
 
 
 I'm sure Vaj might agree, he's mentioned it before here: Dzogchen 
begins where Unity 
 ends. At least that's the gist of Shearer's official comments, 
right Vaj?
 
 Thanks for having the courage to speak the truth.

and thanks for tracking all the rules for us!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 8, 2006, at 4:54 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:
 
  Yup. And that of dozens of my friends and hundreds
  of people within the traditions I have studied.
  They have actually *had* the experience of realization,
  unlike some traditions that can only talk about it in
  theory and come up with excuses for why *their* students
  *don't* have the experience itself.
 
  Your nervous system isn't pure enough yet. You need to
  'purify.' Just keep paying us the money we ask for and
  keep coming to these courses. Someday you'll be pure
  enough to experience what you already are.
 
  Yeah, right.
 
 
 A turning in the seat of consciousness doesn't depend on a  
 purification of a nervous system or certain brain wave styles or even  
 a transcending mind.
 
 It's like Nike says Just do it. No doer required. Ego still  
 optional. May not be available in some areas, but is present  
 everywhere, at all times. ;-)


How can anyone possibly be certain of this either way?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote:
 
  ---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV of your
  Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization
  requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu is
  missing an important point regarding bodily purification; and...I
  contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization is
  superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is superior to
  yours.  Just look at the facts.
 
 
 You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students recently  
 going insane?
 
 Thanks for reminding me.


Which one is that, and suchthings never ever happen with students of any other 
spiritual 
teacher?

Are you saying that no Tibetan Buddhist who studied with the Dali Lama EVER 
went insane, 
neither in this incarnation, or in any previous one?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
  no_reply@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
  drpetersutphen@ wrote:
   
People make a mistake when they view advaitin
teachings as presenting conceptual models of
Realization for a waking state intellect. For
  the
waking state intellect they are obviously
  lacking as
you and others have pointed out. It doesn't mean
  what
they say is false or wrong, its just that they
  are
meant to be applied in two ways: as a tool for
transcendence or as a conceptual understanding
  of a
direct experience that you are having. Contrast
  this
with MMY's teaching which presents a conceptual
  model
of Realization for a waking state intellect. The
waking state mind has something to chew on...
   
   I would add, and to cling to, as a mechanism for
   keeping the actual experience of realization
  away...
  
  But in MMY's model, CC, at least, is inevitable. It
  is merely a product of a transition in how 
  the brain works.
 
 I don't see CC as a product of brain functioning.
 Brain functioning is reflected in the functioning of
 mind and vice versa. Consciousness realizing its own
 unlocalized nature will profoundly effect brain
 functioning but not the other way around.
 

Err, and how could you tell the difference?

As I said in a slightly different context, trying to draw disintions between 
mind/brain/
consciousness is using a piece of charcoal todraw on burnt wood. Where do you 
draw the 
line and how do you know where you drew it?



 
  In MMY's model, all the
  intellectual theory is meant to do is provide a 
  comfortable interpretation of this transition to
  alleviate the discomfort that might arise 
  from intellectual confusion.
 
 MMY's model is great for a waking state understanding
 of Realization. After Realization the knowledge to
 understand what is happening is there, but it is not
 conceptualized as it was in waking state prior to
 Realization. Many, if not all, of the waking state
 assumptions regarding Realization and many other
 things are radically alter after Realization. There is
 not a continuum of S/self from waking state into CC.
 That is an assumption of the waking state intellect
 because it doesn't have a friggin' clue what will
 happen in Realization. How can it? It only knows
 waking state. There is a radical change in conceptual
 understanding of Realization from waking state to the
 intellect functioning in Realization. Realization can
 not be conceived in waking state, but the waking state
 intellect doesn't know that. 
 
 

Where did I or MMY or whatever say therewas a continuum of self from waking 
state into 
CC?

There is a transition of physiological state, certainly (according to my own 
experience and 
belief as colored by MMY's theory), but the transition from self to Self is 
neither abrupt or 
gradual.

  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Comment below:
 
 **
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
 **Snip**
 
  
  Still another way of looking at it is that it is
  a choice *only in retrospect*, i.e., from the
  perspective of realization, but not from the 
  waking-state perspective (Knowledge is different
  in different states of consciousness).
  
 
 **End**
 
 This (above), is backwards.  Realization is the extinction of even
 the concept of choice.  It's in the so-called waking state where
 choice (like waking state) appears to exist.  
 
 Realization is that it doesn't.


Realization is...

Trying to continue past that implies that you can put it into words.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[Vaj]

On Dec 8, 2006, at 10:22 PM, kaladevi93 wrote:


You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students recently
going insane?

Thanks for reminding me.



I'm sure Vaj might agree, he's mentioned it before here: Dzogchen  
begins where Unity
ends. At least that's the gist of Shearer's official comments,  
right Vaj?


Well kinda. The basic Dzogchen transmission is the transmission of  
what TMers might parrot as Unity Consciousness. Shearer says that  
different darshanas have different states of consciousness as their  
goal and that Dzogchen's darshana (more precisely, it's drsti or  
View) is that of Unity. So, yes, it begins there. But that is only  
part of the story. Much of Dzogchen is beyond anything most Tm people  
would understand. There is a certain amount of overlap if you accept  
that Advaita Vedanta (as a darshana) and it's result, brahma- 
chetana, is similar experientially to the acquisition of the Dzogchen  
View. Of course TM does not lead to Buddhahood and would certainly be  
considered a false path on a number of grounds. Most TMers don't even  
comprehend that both TM and the TMSP are soundly part of the yoga and  
samakhya darshanas, but expect to somehow, miraculously jump paths  
and Views. Yoga darshana and samkhya darshana both have the same  
result: turiyatita (CC). What all of the TMers who claim  
enlightenment share in common is that they're describing vikeka- 
khyati, an impermanent state. And short of CC.


It's extremely unpopular to point this failing out.



Thanks for having the courage to speak the truth.


Thank you. :-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[Vaj]

On Dec 8, 2006, at 10:49 PM, matrixmonitor wrote:


---On a conceptual basis, yes...Dzogchen takes place somehow beyond
all progressions, and (as Vaj so astutely pointed out); doesn't
involve the transmission of Shakti (unlike Muktananda's Shaktipat).
But on a practical basis, (as Vaj so unastutely failed to mention);
one (the aspirant) is still confronted with the problems of ingrained
inertia, stress, vasanas;...etc; all of the traditional Buddhist (or
otherwise) impediments to Enlightenment - such as the vices - that
we may allude to as behavioral patterns connected to stress - that
simply don't vanish in the blink of an eye when one attends a
Dzogchen retreat.


Sorry this is simply wrong. You don't seem to have any idea of what  
Mahasandhi/Dzogchen is. One wonders if you even have that transmission.



  Even as pointed out by the greatest of Dzogchen
Masters (Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche among them - this is Vaj's Guru); the
element of TIME invariably creeps in, and although one may get it
(i.e. Grok IT to a certain extent); the fact remains that unless
one is 99.999% already realized, various impediments dissalow
one's immediate Enlightenment even though the Dzogchen transmission
is immediate.


What you fail to mention is that that Dzogchen Fruit, the realization  
of the Body of Light, is far beyond any of the TM conceptual  
darshanas or the TM practical darshanas (really basic yoga darshana,  
CC).



  Unfortunately, most of the Buddhist Gurus (except possibly the
Dalai Lama and a few others); haven't YET gotten the connection
between the delay in one's hoped for immediate Enlightenment and the
stark reality of time, time, time... ; and the possible cause of that
delay: stress.  But thanks to MMY, we new insights into the
phenomenon of the progression toward Enlightenment; but at the same
time, nothing is preventing people from Grok-ing the fact that they
are already IT. (even though tomorrow morning and the day after,
one may have to Grok this again).


And again, this is totally incorrect. In fact the Dalai Lama, as de  
facto head of the Gelukpa sect, also represents the head of the Lam  
Rim (the Gradual Path), no?



 Contrary to what the Neo-Advaitins like HWL Poonja would have us
believe, simply Groking IT for the first time may be insufficient;
and likewise, simply receiving a Dzogchen transmission a single time
may not get people immediately Enlightened.


It really depends on your *definition* (more importantly the  
*experiential definition*) of enlightenment. Since that experiential  
definition is different for every darshana, the word enlightenment  
is only accurate if it is compared within a particular darshana. If  
you try to compare *across* darshanas (which is actually what you are  
doing), you are comparing apples to orangutans (actually much worse).  
Since each darshana not only possesses it's own View *and* it's own  
intendant logic, arguing across darshanas is a grand logical fallacy  
if ever there was one.




  Like it or not, a
progression of time is usually involved, due to ingrained stresses.
 Though MMY is not really one of my personal Gurus (I'm a devotee of
Padma Sambhava),


But you are in direct contradiction to his teaching. You are  
presenting both a false Path and a false View. One is tempted to  
assume therfore that your View is false Gary.



may he be praised forever for coming up with TM and
the connection between progressive Realization and the concept of
stress release.  Praise God!  But in defense of Dzogchen, one simply
ditch the attitude that one is not already Pure Consciousness (and
then continue with the practice of TM tomorrow and the day after, and
the day after).

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[nablusos108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
  
   
   On Dec 8, 2006, at 6:41 PM, yhvhworld wrote:
   
---Vaj, but this is the initial stage, ...even from the POV 
 of 
  your
Guru, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, complete, continuous realization
requires at least, time and abundant practice.  Perhaps Norbu 
 is
missing an important point regarding bodily purification; 
 and...I
contend, MMY's fund of knowledge on the topic of Realization 
is
superior to Norbu's.  This is not a case of my Guru is 
 superior 
  to
yours.  Just look at the facts.
   
   
   You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students
   recently going insane?
  
  Are you referring to the one who became clinically
  depressed after her beloved husband died too young?
  
   Thanks for reminding me.
  
  Hey, remind us too, Vaj.
 
 from The Noble Eightfold Path on Wikipedia:
 Right speech (samyag-vâc · sammâ-vâcâ), as the name implies, deals 
 with the way in which a Buddhist practitioner would best make use 
of 
 his or her words. In the Magga-vibhanga Sutta, this aspect of the 
 Noble Eightfold Path is explained as follows:
 
 And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, abstaining from 
 divisive speech, abstaining from abusive speech, abstaining from 
 idle chatter: This, monks, is called right speech.
 Walpola Rahula glosses this by stating that not engaging in 
 such forms of wrong and harmful speech ultimately means that one 
 naturally has to speak the truth, has to use words that are 
friendly 
 and benevolent, pleasant and gentle, meaningful and useful.
 
 I guess Vaj has a way to go...oh well, at least he is in 
 the 'initial' stages.

Spot on ! :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 8, 2006, at 10:22 PM, kaladevi93 wrote:
 
  You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students 
recently
  going insane?
 
  Thanks for reminding me.
 
 
  I'm sure Vaj might agree, he's mentioned it before here: 
Dzogchen  
  begins where Unity
  ends. At least that's the gist of Shearer's official comments,  
  right Vaj?
 
 Well kinda. The basic Dzogchen transmission is the transmission of  
 what TMers might parrot as Unity Consciousness. Shearer says 
that  
 different darshanas have different states of consciousness as 
their  
 goal and that Dzogchen's darshana (more precisely, it's drsti or  
 View) is that of Unity. So, yes, it begins there. But that is only  
 part of the story. Much of Dzogchen is beyond anything most Tm 
people  
 would understand. There is a certain amount of overlap if you 
accept  
 that Advaita Vedanta (as a darshana) and it's result, brahma- 
 chetana, is similar experientially to the acquisition of the 
Dzogchen  
 View. Of course TM does not lead to Buddhahood and would certainly 
be  
 considered a false path on a number of grounds. Most TMers don't 
even  
 comprehend that both TM and the TMSP are soundly part of the yoga 
and  
 samakhya darshanas, but expect to somehow, miraculously jump paths  
 and Views. Yoga darshana and samkhya darshana both have the same  
 result: turiyatita (CC). What all of the TMers who claim  
 enlightenment share in common is that they're describing vikeka- 
 khyati, an impermanent state. And short of CC.
 
 It's extremely unpopular to point this failing out.

Perhaps because it's extremely incorrect?

Or perhaps because:

It really depends on your *definition* (more importantly the 
*experiential definition*) of enlightenment. Since that experiential 
definition is different for every darshana, the word enlightenment 
is only accurate if it is compared within a particular darshana. If 
you try to compare *across* darshanas (which is actually what you are 
doing), you are comparing apples to orangutans (actually much worse). 
Since each darshana not only possesses it's own View *and* it's own 
intendant logic, arguing across darshanas is a grand logical fallacy 
if ever there was one.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[qntmpkt]

---Thanks, you're definitely right about the Rainbow Light Body, but
it remains to be seen if anybody outside of secluded parts of Tibet
will be able to acquire this type of body. This is a hope-for goal in
the category of progressive evolution.  Evidence suggests that it's at
the end of a progressive biological evolution - something not to be
aquired through an immediate transmission! (stress release can't be
avoided). 


 In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 8, 2006, at 10:49 PM, matrixmonitor wrote:
 
  ---On a conceptual basis, yes...Dzogchen takes place somehow beyond
  all progressions, and (as Vaj so astutely pointed out); doesn't
  involve the transmission of Shakti (unlike Muktananda's Shaktipat).
  But on a practical basis, (as Vaj so unastutely failed to mention);
  one (the aspirant) is still confronted with the problems of ingrained
  inertia, stress, vasanas;...etc; all of the traditional Buddhist (or
  otherwise) impediments to Enlightenment - such as the vices - that
  we may allude to as behavioral patterns connected to stress - that
  simply don't vanish in the blink of an eye when one attends a
  Dzogchen retreat.
 
 Sorry this is simply wrong. You don't seem to have any idea of what  
 Mahasandhi/Dzogchen is. One wonders if you even have that transmission.
 
Even as pointed out by the greatest of Dzogchen
  Masters (Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche among them - this is Vaj's Guru); the
  element of TIME invariably creeps in, and although one may get it
  (i.e. Grok IT to a certain extent); the fact remains that unless
  one is 99.999% already realized, various impediments dissalow
  one's immediate Enlightenment even though the Dzogchen transmission
  is immediate.
 
 What you fail to mention is that that Dzogchen Fruit, the realization  
 of the Body of Light, is far beyond any of the TM conceptual  
 darshanas or the TM practical darshanas (really basic yoga darshana,  
 CC).
 
Unfortunately, most of the Buddhist Gurus (except possibly the
  Dalai Lama and a few others); haven't YET gotten the connection
  between the delay in one's hoped for immediate Enlightenment and the
  stark reality of time, time, time... ; and the possible cause of that
  delay: stress.  But thanks to MMY, we new insights into the
  phenomenon of the progression toward Enlightenment; but at the same
  time, nothing is preventing people from Grok-ing the fact that they
  are already IT. (even though tomorrow morning and the day after,
  one may have to Grok this again).
 
 And again, this is totally incorrect. In fact the Dalai Lama, as de  
 facto head of the Gelukpa sect, also represents the head of the Lam  
 Rim (the Gradual Path), no?
 
   Contrary to what the Neo-Advaitins like HWL Poonja would have us
  believe, simply Groking IT for the first time may be insufficient;
  and likewise, simply receiving a Dzogchen transmission a single time
  may not get people immediately Enlightened.
 
 It really depends on your *definition* (more importantly the  
 *experiential definition*) of enlightenment. Since that experiential  
 definition is different for every darshana, the word enlightenment  
 is only accurate if it is compared within a particular darshana. If  
 you try to compare *across* darshanas (which is actually what you are  
 doing), you are comparing apples to orangutans (actually much worse).  
 Since each darshana not only possesses it's own View *and* it's own  
 intendant logic, arguing across darshanas is a grand logical fallacy  
 if ever there was one.
 
 
Like it or not, a
  progression of time is usually involved, due to ingrained stresses.
   Though MMY is not really one of my personal Gurus (I'm a devotee of
  Padma Sambhava),
 
 But you are in direct contradiction to his teaching. You are  
 presenting both a false Path and a false View. One is tempted to  
 assume therfore that your View is false Gary.
 
  may he be praised forever for coming up with TM and
  the connection between progressive Realization and the concept of
  stress release.  Praise God!  But in defense of Dzogchen, one simply
  ditch the attitude that one is not already Pure Consciousness (and
  then continue with the practice of TM tomorrow and the day after, and
  the day after).

[FairfieldLife] Re: Lynch goes into coffee biz

[bob_brigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 
  I know you have to go. But this is really important: Tell me 
 about 
  your new line of coffee. 
  
  David Lynch Signature Cup. It's the coffee I drink. And I really 
 love 
  drinking coffee. 
  
   I've heard that. I wish we had some right now. 
  
  Yeah! So it's gonna be sold on the site at first, and then it's 
 going 
  into stores. Yesterday I was at the Brattle Theatre in Boston 
 [actually 
  Cambridge, Mass.], and they want, you know, to put it in the 
 lobby. It 
  would be very cool if it was in art houses. It's a filmmaker's 
 coffee. 
  But a coffee that all people, I hope, will enjoy. It's really 
 good. 
  
  http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/review/2006/12/07/btm/index.html
 


 I wonder if anyone else has noted that the most public proponent of 
 TM these days is addicted to cigarettes and coffee?




Yeah, well 20 cups of coffee a day is bad, but possibly even good for 
some aspects of health( 
http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/80/96454.htm ), although hell on 
vata dosha (David is a twitchy guy, fer sure, despite his 33 years of 
TM), but somebody ought to slap his face for taking up cigs after 
quitting them for twenty years, saying he just loved tobacco. Two 
words: Peter Jennings -- he started smoking again after 9-11 and went 
quickly when he contracted lung cancer in 2005.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=642705

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[nablusos108]

 
 But you are in direct contradiction to his teaching. You are  
 presenting both a false Path and a false View. One is tempted to  
 assume therfore that your View is false Gary.

As mentioned before; as the success of the Invincible America grows 
stronger, Vaj is getting more desperate and his language more foul.
 
  may he be praised forever for coming up with TM and
  the connection between progressive Realization and the concept of
  stress release.  Praise God!  But in defense of Dzogchen, one simply
  ditch the attitude that one is not already Pure Consciousness (and
  then continue with the practice of TM tomorrow and the day after, 
and
  the day after).

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Dec 8, 2006, at 10:22 PM, kaladevi93 wrote:
 
  You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students 
recently
  going insane?
 
  Thanks for reminding me.
 
 
  I'm sure Vaj might agree, he's mentioned it before here: 
Dzogchen  
  begins where Unity
  ends. At least that's the gist of Shearer's official 
comments,  
  right Vaj?
 
 Well kinda. The basic Dzogchen transmission is the transmission 
of  
 what TMers might parrot as Unity Consciousness. Shearer says 
that  
 different darshanas have different states of consciousness as 
their  
 goal and that Dzogchen's darshana (more precisely, it's drsti 
or  
 View) is that of Unity. So, yes, it begins there. But that is 
only  
 part of the story. Much of Dzogchen is beyond anything most Tm 
people  
 would understand. There is a certain amount of overlap if you 
accept  
 that Advaita Vedanta (as a darshana) and it's result, brahma- 
 chetana, is similar experientially to the acquisition of the 
Dzogchen  
 View. Of course TM does not lead to Buddhahood and would certainly 
be  
 considered a false path on a number of grounds. Most TMers don't 
even  
 comprehend that both TM and the TMSP are soundly part of the yoga 
and  
 samakhya darshanas, but expect to somehow, miraculously jump 
paths  
 and Views. Yoga darshana and samkhya darshana both have the same  
 result: turiyatita (CC). What all of the TMers who claim  
 enlightenment share in common is that they're describing vikeka- 
 khyati, an impermanent state. And short of CC.
 
 It's extremely unpopular to point this failing out.
 
 
  Thanks for having the courage to speak the truth.
 
 Thank you. :-)

Your quotes from above: 

* Most TMers don't even comprehend that both TM and the TMSP are 
soundly part of the yoga and samakhya darshanas...
* What all of the TMers who claim enlightenment share in common is 
that they're describing vikeka-khyati, an impermanent state...
* Much of Dzogchen is beyond anything most Tm people would 
understand...

I am quoting you above to highlight the arrogance and foolishness of 
your grand pronouncements. For the sake of argument, let's say there 
are 100,000 existing, active TMers, worldwide. Have you even spoken 
personally with let's say 1,000 practitioners of TM- 1%- in enough 
depth to assertain their beliefs? I can guess the answer. 

It is absurd to think you can speak for most TMers or all of the 
TMers or most Tm people, as you state above. You obviously make 
this stuff up as you go along.

I know you've discovered something that is very special to you, and 
works for you. Granted. Good for you!

But to continue to spread your distortions about TM under the guise 
of somehow 'speaking the truth' for all of us supposedly naive and 
uninformed souls, is laughable. 

Perhaps it is the self-sufficiency of TM that bothers you- no 
complex intellectual traditions, or direct transmissions from the 
Master needed. Just plain old TM leading to plain old Realization. 
Complete, eternal, and timeless. Simply Everything. Could it be that 
easy? Yep.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[qntmpkt]

---Thanks, to back track a few months to Vaj's erronous and distorted
notion that TM is dualist, to repeat another contributor's reply:
that what's dualist or otherwise depends on the Consciousness of the
aspirant, rather than the technique.
 But let's take Vaj's Guru:  Norbu Rinpoche. He conducts retreats in
which the Dzogchen transmission is given. Fine. This is likewise
dualist since one must have the Guru right in front of you and pay
money for the transmission.  So how, Vaj, is this less dualist than
the TM mantra?
 Second, Vaj apparently likes the mindfulness technique.  Great, but
ideally, this should be practiced in a special retreat. Again, time
and money spent for the retreat. Once initiated into TM, it can be
taken anywhere, any time.  Can one practice mindfulness at a busy
airport?  No.
 Third, another technique of Norbu's is the Dance of the Vajra: a
type of dance done on a mandala with accompanying Tibetan musical
instruments, and the performance of various mudras.  Why is this not
dualist.
 As far as techniques go, it's impossible (apparently) to avoid some 
element of dualism, since mantras, mudras, Dzogchen, etc are types of
transmissions.  In due time, one may transcend the vehicle,
YET...continue with the practice since the transcendence of duality
doesn't imply particular changes (chopping water, carrying wood).
 In short, Vaj's dualism argument doen't hold water. It's a piss
poor analysis based on a misinterpretation of his own Guru Norbu and a
complete misunderstanding of TM.

 In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 
  
  On Dec 8, 2006, at 10:22 PM, kaladevi93 wrote:
  
   You mean like one of Mahesh's beautiful and primary students 
 recently
   going insane?
  
   Thanks for reminding me.
  
  
   I'm sure Vaj might agree, he's mentioned it before here: 
 Dzogchen  
   begins where Unity
   ends. At least that's the gist of Shearer's official 
 comments,  
   right Vaj?
  
  Well kinda. The basic Dzogchen transmission is the transmission 
 of  
  what TMers might parrot as Unity Consciousness. Shearer says 
 that  
  different darshanas have different states of consciousness as 
 their  
  goal and that Dzogchen's darshana (more precisely, it's drsti 
 or  
  View) is that of Unity. So, yes, it begins there. But that is 
 only  
  part of the story. Much of Dzogchen is beyond anything most Tm 
 people  
  would understand. There is a certain amount of overlap if you 
 accept  
  that Advaita Vedanta (as a darshana) and it's result, brahma- 
  chetana, is similar experientially to the acquisition of the 
 Dzogchen  
  View. Of course TM does not lead to Buddhahood and would certainly 
 be  
  considered a false path on a number of grounds. Most TMers don't 
 even  
  comprehend that both TM and the TMSP are soundly part of the yoga 
 and  
  samakhya darshanas, but expect to somehow, miraculously jump 
 paths  
  and Views. Yoga darshana and samkhya darshana both have the same  
  result: turiyatita (CC). What all of the TMers who claim  
  enlightenment share in common is that they're describing vikeka- 
  khyati, an impermanent state. And short of CC.
  
  It's extremely unpopular to point this failing out.
  
  
   Thanks for having the courage to speak the truth.
  
  Thank you. :-)
 
 Your quotes from above: 
 
 * Most TMers don't even comprehend that both TM and the TMSP are 
 soundly part of the yoga and samakhya darshanas...
 * What all of the TMers who claim enlightenment share in common is 
 that they're describing vikeka-khyati, an impermanent state...
 * Much of Dzogchen is beyond anything most Tm people would 
 understand...
 
 I am quoting you above to highlight the arrogance and foolishness of 
 your grand pronouncements. For the sake of argument, let's say there 
 are 100,000 existing, active TMers, worldwide. Have you even spoken 
 personally with let's say 1,000 practitioners of TM- 1%- in enough 
 depth to assertain their beliefs? I can guess the answer. 
 
 It is absurd to think you can speak for most TMers or all of the 
 TMers or most Tm people, as you state above. You obviously make 
 this stuff up as you go along.
 
 I know you've discovered something that is very special to you, and 
 works for you. Granted. Good for you!
 
 But to continue to spread your distortions about TM under the guise 
 of somehow 'speaking the truth' for all of us supposedly naive and 
 uninformed souls, is laughable. 
 
 Perhaps it is the self-sufficiency of TM that bothers you- no 
 complex intellectual traditions, or direct transmissions from the 
 Master needed. Just plain old TM leading to plain old Realization. 
 Complete, eternal, and timeless. Simply Everything. Could it be that 
 easy? Yep.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
snip
 Perhaps it is the self-sufficiency of TM that bothers you- no 
 complex intellectual traditions, or direct transmissions from the 
 Master needed. Just plain old TM leading to plain old Realization. 
 Complete, eternal, and timeless. Simply Everything. Could it be
 that easy? Yep.

And not nearly elitist enough.

You nailed it.