Re: Data typing in MV Basic

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 11:33:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> A = 1 is held as an integer
> A = "1" is held as a string
> A = "1" + 0 is held as an integer
> 
> Cheers,
> Stewart

Sorry stewart I don't believe that's the case.
And btw to the posted that suggested NUM(A), NUM(A) would return TRUE for A = 
1 and also for A = "1"
since NUM forces a numeric string into a numeric datum anyway

So that's not a good way to test it
Will
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RE: Re Text File to PDF

[Tony Gravagno]

Troy Buss wrote
>Otherwise its back to pcl2pdf ( www.visual.co.uk/pcl2pdf.html 
>) and blat for this other project I'm working on.

Hey Troy, long time bud.  Hope all is well.

I have code here that I haven't had time to fully productize it yet.  Very
simply you populate a variable with substitution strings, and pass it to a
routine that generates an HTML page, PDF, or PostScript.  It's all clean
BASIC code, there's no funky printer/device-specific escape sequences (PCL
or PS) and you can change the report layout independently from the app code.
Using a similar "set vars and call a subroutine" interface, you can also
e-mail the resulting files - no SendMail, Outlook, or other mail client or
server code required.  All of this will work over Windows or Linux (Blat is
great but it doesn't work over Linux).  I'll be porting this to U2 within
the next couple weeks.  So far there is one happy client that's been using
it over D3 for several months.  I think they'll provide a  good reference if
asked.

Regards,
Tony
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: The lists are closing

[Dennis Bartlett]

>> "So there" Will Johnson

Ha Will! So nice to see you're wearing a new style...
Must say it really "suits" you...


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Volunteer Board

[Dennis Bartlett]

>> The number of after-the fact non-volunteers pointing out
what we
>> *should* have done is always staggering...

I think what you've done is excellent.

I think that the who comparison thang came about as a result
of the
imminent demise of the oliver thing...

Volunteer?

No problem, only I wonder if
 - what I know
 - where I live
 - the currency I use
would be of any use to you...


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RE: The lists are closing ** adulation to Clif ***

[Dennis Bartlett]

Clif,
Like others I've selfishly used your lists for my gain,
without thinking of the work involved.

Like others,I've learnt so much,
and probably given so little.

Like others, I've flamed, been flamed,
and duly reprimanded in such a loving way :)

Like others, I've been awed at a 400 message inbox
and loved picking through, grouping and storing

Like others, I've been enraged & self-righteous
when others didn't understand

Like others, I've had a life apart from the daily grind
called oliver.com, home from home.

Like others, I'm really grateful, all these things
provided by you alone

Like others, all I have are paltry thanks
for what must have cost you much

Thanks seem insufficient, yet they're all I have.
I could not have done what you did,

Dennis "saddened by this" bartlett




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RE: Data typing in MV Basic

[Mitchell, Stewart]

A = 1 is held as an integer
A = "1" is held as a string
A = "1" + 0 is held as an integer

Cheers,
Stewart

-Original Message-
From: Anthony Youngman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 31 March 2004 17:00
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: Data typing in MV Basic


You've missed the point! :-)

These two statements apparently have exactly the same effect - the
question is do they?

A = 1
A = "1"

(In the stuff I'm writing, they'd be the same - everything is a string
until it is forced into numeric.)

Cheers,
Wol 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jim Garratt
Sent: 31 March 2004 07:39
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: Data typing in MV Basic

Would this not be set by your initialisation of the variable A.

eg A = '';*Alpha/Numeric or  String
 A = 0   ; Numeric


- Original Message -
From: "Trevor Ockenden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U2 Users Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: Data typing in MV Basic


> Will, I stand corrected on that one. So far in 20 odd years of
programming
> in MV I haven't needed to worry about it.
>
> Now Will raises a terrific question. If A = "1" assigns 1 as numeric.
How
> would you determine if A contained a numeric or a string in this case?
>
> My short answer is - why would I need to know? BUT I'm sure somebody
has a
> good answer to that one.
>
> Cheers
>
> Trevor Ockenden
> Open Systems Professionals
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Data typing in MV Basic
>
>
> > In a message dated 3/30/2004 8:19:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> >
> > > A = 1 assigns a numeric integer. The expression need not contain
> operators
> > > (+,-,etc) to be numeric.
> > > A = "1" assigns a string however, as you have explicitly declared
it
to
> be
> > > string.
> > > A = "1" + 2 assigns a numeric integer value (3) as the result is
> numeric.
> > > A = "one" + 2 assigns a zero - according to the error message.
> >
> > yes
> > no
> > yes
> > yes
> >
> > they all assign numerics imho
> > "1" is cast as a numeric because the system is smart enough to
realize
its
> a
> > numeric string and has no purpose casting it as a string
> >Any idea how to test which it is?
> > Will
> > --
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> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
> >
>
>
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RE: Data typing in MV Basic

[Anthony Youngman]

You've missed the point! :-)

These two statements apparently have exactly the same effect - the
question is do they?

A = 1
A = "1"

(In the stuff I'm writing, they'd be the same - everything is a string
until it is forced into numeric.)

Cheers,
Wol 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jim Garratt
Sent: 31 March 2004 07:39
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: Data typing in MV Basic

Would this not be set by your initialisation of the variable A.

eg A = '';*Alpha/Numeric or  String
 A = 0   ; Numeric


- Original Message -
From: "Trevor Ockenden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U2 Users Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: Data typing in MV Basic


> Will, I stand corrected on that one. So far in 20 odd years of
programming
> in MV I haven't needed to worry about it.
>
> Now Will raises a terrific question. If A = "1" assigns 1 as numeric.
How
> would you determine if A contained a numeric or a string in this case?
>
> My short answer is - why would I need to know? BUT I'm sure somebody
has a
> good answer to that one.
>
> Cheers
>
> Trevor Ockenden
> Open Systems Professionals
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Data typing in MV Basic
>
>
> > In a message dated 3/30/2004 8:19:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> >
> > > A = 1 assigns a numeric integer. The expression need not contain
> operators
> > > (+,-,etc) to be numeric.
> > > A = "1" assigns a string however, as you have explicitly declared
it
to
> be
> > > string.
> > > A = "1" + 2 assigns a numeric integer value (3) as the result is
> numeric.
> > > A = "one" + 2 assigns a zero - according to the error message.
> >
> > yes
> > no
> > yes
> > yes
> >
> > they all assign numerics imho
> > "1" is cast as a numeric because the system is smart enough to
realize
its
> a
> > numeric string and has no purpose casting it as a string
> >Any idea how to test which it is?
> > Will
> > --
> > u2-users mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
> >
>
>
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Re: Data typing in MV Basic

[Mats Carlid]

Mats Carlid wrote:

Trevor Ockenden wrote:

Will, I stand corrected on that one. So far in 20 odd years of 
programming
in MV I haven't needed to worry about it.
 

Neither have I .

Now Will raises a terrific question. If A = "1" assigns 1 as numeric. 
How
would you determine if A contained a numeric or a string in this case?
 

Piece of cake . Write  a program  with the statements in it and step 
through it in the
debugger.  Result shows clearly that
A = 1
now A is reported as  INTEGER 1
A = "1"
now A ir reported as:  T  r  L=1   '1'

(  it looked as if the cut and paste had worked but when the mail
came back the string answer was gone - som  much for WYSIWYG  mailers )
( used uv10.0.1 for teh test)
-- mats



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RE: [ADMIN] Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[Anthony Youngman]

He's doing a SCO ... when you give him any facts he just repeats his
baseless assertions :-)

Yes we know a screwdriver is far better and newer technology, but that
still doesn't mean it beats a hammer for driving nails :-) (Well, it
does if you're too dumb to learn how to use a hammer, but that's another
topic ...)

Cheers,
Wol

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Jeff Schasny
Sent: 30 March 2004 23:37
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: [ADMIN] Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

Then perhaps you should take your own advice and "HIT DELETE"

-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[unsightly rubbish snipped]

IF you feel my comments are without SUBSTANCE... 
WHY NOT ARGUE BACK with some Valid Proof...

Instead of start Calling People Names... like school kids!

Yes, it is only Normal when People Fail or Run out of Arguments... they
start making Personal Remarks... This Denotes their FAILURE!

Joe Eugene
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RE: The lists are closing

[Dennis Bartlett]

Dennis Bartlett agrees that:
Dennis Bartlett wrote:
> All that subscribing to a forum
And that
Dennis Bartlett was obviously smoking out of some BEEG pot
resulting in the fact that
Dennis Bartlett
is truly soree

errr..

oops


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RE: The lists are closing

[Dennis Bartlett]

Actually I _am_ quite fat.
Ignorant? Well, I sure didn't know you had the manners of a
wild arabian
bush pig!
Slob? Funny thing that - I'm so pernickety (like someone
else I know)
about how I code (and how badly others code), but so bad at
cleaning my
motorbike... Guess I AM a slob


-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 30 March 2004 09:39
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: The lists are closing


In a message dated 3/30/2004 5:18:37 AM Eastern Standard
Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> Listen, Will "the blind, deaf and possibly dumb" Johnson
>
> Are you hearing nothing?

Please don't start insulting me you ignorant fat slob.


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Re: Data typing in MV Basic

[Mats Carlid]

Trevor Ockenden wrote:

Will, I stand corrected on that one. So far in 20 odd years of programming
in MV I haven't needed to worry about it.
 

Neither have I .

Now Will raises a terrific question. If A = "1" assigns 1 as numeric. How
would you determine if A contained a numeric or a string in this case?
 

Piece of cake . Write  a program  with the statements in it and step 
through it in the
debugger.  
Result shows clearly that
A = 1
now A is reported as  INTEGER 1
A = "1"
now A ir reported as

( used uv10.0.1 for teh test)
-- mats


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Re: Data typing in MV Basic

[Craig Bennett]

Trevor,

>Now Will raises a terrific question. If A = "1" assigns 1 as numeric. How
>would you determine if A contained a numeric or a string in this case?

in UV I think you want the DESCRINFO function

According to the manual, DESCRINFO(X, 1) returns

0 unassigned variable
1 integer
2 numeric
3 string
4 file
5 array
6 subroutine
7 sequential file
8 GCI descriptor
9 NULL value
10 ODBC descriptor

regards,


Craig
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Re: Data typing in MV Basic

[Bruce Nichol]

Goo'day,

At 16:25 31/03/04, you wrote:

Now Will raises a terrific question. If A = "1" assigns 1 as numeric. How
would you determine if A contained a numeric or a string in this case?
IF NUM(A) ???

BTW, Trevor, 16:18 (or thereabouts) is nowhere near going to the pub 
^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H home time!  ~8^))


Cheers

Trevor Ockenden
Open Systems Professionals
Regards,

Bruce Nichol
Talon Computer Services
ALBURYNSW 2640
Australia
Tel: +61 (0)411149636
Fax: +61 (0)260232119
If it ain't broke, fix it till it is! 

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Re: Data typing in MV Basic

[Jim Garratt]

Would this not be set by your initialisation of the variable A.

eg A = '';*Alpha/Numeric or  String
 A = 0   ; Numeric


- Original Message -
From: "Trevor Ockenden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U2 Users Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: Data typing in MV Basic


> Will, I stand corrected on that one. So far in 20 odd years of programming
> in MV I haven't needed to worry about it.
>
> Now Will raises a terrific question. If A = "1" assigns 1 as numeric. How
> would you determine if A contained a numeric or a string in this case?
>
> My short answer is - why would I need to know? BUT I'm sure somebody has a
> good answer to that one.
>
> Cheers
>
> Trevor Ockenden
> Open Systems Professionals
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Data typing in MV Basic
>
>
> > In a message dated 3/30/2004 8:19:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> >
> > > A = 1 assigns a numeric integer. The expression need not contain
> operators
> > > (+,-,etc) to be numeric.
> > > A = "1" assigns a string however, as you have explicitly declared it
to
> be
> > > string.
> > > A = "1" + 2 assigns a numeric integer value (3) as the result is
> numeric.
> > > A = "one" + 2 assigns a zero - according to the error message.
> >
> > yes
> > no
> > yes
> > yes
> >
> > they all assign numerics imho
> > "1" is cast as a numeric because the system is smart enough to realize
its
> a
> > numeric string and has no purpose casting it as a string
> >Any idea how to test which it is?
> > Will
> > --
> > u2-users mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
> >
>
>
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Re: Data typing in MV Basic

[Trevor Ockenden]

Will, I stand corrected on that one. So far in 20 odd years of programming
in MV I haven't needed to worry about it.

Now Will raises a terrific question. If A = "1" assigns 1 as numeric. How
would you determine if A contained a numeric or a string in this case?

My short answer is - why would I need to know? BUT I'm sure somebody has a
good answer to that one.

Cheers

Trevor Ockenden
Open Systems Professionals

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Data typing in MV Basic


> In a message dated 3/30/2004 8:19:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> > A = 1 assigns a numeric integer. The expression need not contain
operators
> > (+,-,etc) to be numeric.
> > A = "1" assigns a string however, as you have explicitly declared it to
be
> > string.
> > A = "1" + 2 assigns a numeric integer value (3) as the result is
numeric.
> > A = "one" + 2 assigns a zero - according to the error message.
>
> yes
> no
> yes
> yes
>
> they all assign numerics imho
> "1" is cast as a numeric because the system is smart enough to realize its
a
> numeric string and has no purpose casting it as a string
>Any idea how to test which it is?
> Will
> -- 
> u2-users mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
>


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Re: Comparing Oracle with UV

[Trevor Ockenden]

Joe

I do not have access to a file with 20 million records but I will create one
with random data and try to carry out your test. Bare in mind I will be
using my laptop (NEC Versa LX P2 366 - 384Mb RAM and relatively slow disk)
which may sku the results somewhat but I will do my best to tune UV to get
satisfactory results.

With luck and in between picking up the kids etc. I should have a result by
tomorrow (as it is nearly knock off time Down Under).

I would be interested to know if you could create the environment from
scratch to carry out this test as I am intending to do? How long would that
take you?

For your interest, whilst I was typing this e-mail my program to create the
data has already created 1 million records. It took approximately 5 minutes
to write. Compiled first time. I also have [EMAIL PROTECTED] running, plus 10 other
windows open. Total memory usage is 244Mb on Win2000.

Cheers

Trevor Ockenden
Open Systems Professionals

- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Eugene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U2 Users Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: Comparing Oracle with UV


>
> Trevor,
>
> I will try to do this "ANALYZE.FILE STATS" sometime tomorrow.
> Again... Nobody here has come up with any real proof of any
> clear testing results...other than just sending out useless random emails.
>
> I provided the exact details on my testing, can you do me a BIG Favor.
> Do you have any UV DataBase that Contains around 20 Million Records?
>
> Can you do a CASE IN-SENSITIVE Search against ONE Field in UV FILE/TABLE
> and post the real time average results?
>
> I belive the syntax UV uses for WILD CARD Search is "]"
>
> I simply cannot even come with a Seconds Timing againt less than 1 Million
> Records
> in MS-SQL Server with NO Indexes, which proves very good performance.
>
> I have never seen this Kinda Good Performance in any UV Programs/Against
any
> UV Files
> within UV/PICK/BASIC.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe Eugene
>
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Behalf Of Trevor Ockenden
> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 11:26 PM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Comparing Oracle with UV
> >
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >As this comparison is still raging why don't you do the
> >ANALYZE.FILE STATS for us and post the results as my experience
> >has shown that 9 times out of 10 performance is related to file
> >sizing. A fundamental element of setting up any database.
> >
> >Note, we all stand to learn something here.
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Trevor Ockenden
> >Open Systems Professionals
> >M: +61 414 731 634
> >E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
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Re: Data typing in MV Basic

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 8:19:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> A = 1 assigns a numeric integer. The expression need not contain operators
> (+,-,etc) to be numeric.
> A = "1" assigns a string however, as you have explicitly declared it to be
> string.
> A = "1" + 2 assigns a numeric integer value (3) as the result is numeric.
> A = "one" + 2 assigns a zero - according to the error message.

yes
no
yes
yes

they all assign numerics imho
"1" is cast as a numeric because the system is smart enough to realize its a 
numeric string and has no purpose casting it as a string
   Any idea how to test which it is?
Will
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Re: Modern Universe (TESTING)

[Jim Garratt]

Well Said Sara.


- Original Message -
From: "Sara Burns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:57 PM
Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)


> As requested
>
> My queries were done on our machine reasonably early in the morning before
> there were a lot of users.  I repeated them to ensure that data was in
> cache.
> Both had the same format
> SELECT CustomerNo
>   FROM CustomerFile
>   WHERE PostalAddLine1 like '%EXPLORATION%'
>   ORDER BY CustomerName
>
> I will admit that I was surprised at the performance when we set up the
> index in UniVerse on that field.  It showed me the value of using indexes.
> Before indexes were available in UniVerse this was done by different
means.
> This type of select would not have been considered.  I think this is a big
> difference between Oracle and UniVerse.  As these features have become
> available in UniVerse etc some leap at the chance to use them and others
> keep doing things the old way.  Sometimes they may have been bitten by odd
> bugs in the past.  UniVerse has most of the latest features if we choose
to
> use them.  This CustomerFile has 14 indexes.
>
> I cannot repeat the tests now as the machine is heavily loaded and will be
> until late this evening.  However I did try again just to convince myself
> and got the same relativity.  Maybe we need to tune Oracle better for this
> query
>
> One possible difference is that this query is directly to the database
from
> our UniVerse application, not via an intermediate layer.
>
> AIX 5.2, UniVerse 10.0.11, Oracle 9.0.2
>
> I think we should leave this discussion now.  Maybe it is time for
> experimentation - I have found you can get great improvements with the
right
> approach.
>
> Sara Burns (SEB)
> Development Team Leader
>
> Public Trust
> Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI)
>
> Mobile: 027 457 5974
> < 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you are
not
> the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed,
copied
> or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor the
> official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation is
> made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.
>
>
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RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

[Sara Burns]

As requested
 
My queries were done on our machine reasonably early in the morning before
there were a lot of users.  I repeated them to ensure that data was in
cache.
Both had the same format
SELECT CustomerNo 
  FROM CustomerFile 
  WHERE PostalAddLine1 like '%EXPLORATION%'
  ORDER BY CustomerName
 
I will admit that I was surprised at the performance when we set up the
index in UniVerse on that field.  It showed me the value of using indexes.
Before indexes were available in UniVerse this was done by different means.
This type of select would not have been considered.  I think this is a big
difference between Oracle and UniVerse.  As these features have become
available in UniVerse etc some leap at the chance to use them and others
keep doing things the old way.  Sometimes they may have been bitten by odd
bugs in the past.  UniVerse has most of the latest features if we choose to
use them.  This CustomerFile has 14 indexes.
 
I cannot repeat the tests now as the machine is heavily loaded and will be
until late this evening.  However I did try again just to convince myself
and got the same relativity.  Maybe we need to tune Oracle better for this
query
 
One possible difference is that this query is directly to the database from
our UniVerse application, not via an intermediate layer.
 
AIX 5.2, UniVerse 10.0.11, Oracle 9.0.2
 
I think we should leave this discussion now.  Maybe it is time for
experimentation - I have found you can get great improvements with the right
approach.
 
Sara Burns (SEB) 
Development Team Leader

Public Trust 
Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI) 

Mobile: 027 457 5974
<  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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RE: Comparing Oracle with UV

[Joe Eugene]

Trevor,

I will try to do this "ANALYZE.FILE STATS" sometime tomorrow.
Again... Nobody here has come up with any real proof of any
clear testing results...other than just sending out useless random emails.

I provided the exact details on my testing, can you do me a BIG Favor.
Do you have any UV DataBase that Contains around 20 Million Records?

Can you do a CASE IN-SENSITIVE Search against ONE Field in UV FILE/TABLE
and post the real time average results?

I belive the syntax UV uses for WILD CARD Search is "]"

I simply cannot even come with a Seconds Timing againt less than 1 Million
Records
in MS-SQL Server with NO Indexes, which proves very good performance.

I have never seen this Kinda Good Performance in any UV Programs/Against any
UV Files
within UV/PICK/BASIC.

Thanks,
Joe Eugene


>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Behalf Of Trevor Ockenden
>Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 11:26 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Comparing Oracle with UV
>
>
>Joe
>
>As this comparison is still raging why don't you do the
>ANALYZE.FILE STATS for us and post the results as my experience
>has shown that 9 times out of 10 performance is related to file
>sizing. A fundamental element of setting up any database.
>
>Note, we all stand to learn something here.
>
>Cheers
>
>Trevor Ockenden
>Open Systems Professionals
>M: +61 414 731 634
>E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
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Re: Your website

[tonyw]

Here is the file.
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Re: Approved

[tonyw]

Please have a look at the attached file.
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Comparing Oracle with UV

[Trevor Ockenden]

Joe

As this comparison is still raging why don't you do the ANALYZE.FILE STATS for us and 
post the results as my experience has shown that 9 times out of 10 performance is 
related to file sizing. A fundamental element of setting up any database.

Note, we all stand to learn something here.

Cheers

Trevor Ockenden
Open Systems Professionals
M: +61 414 731 634
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re Text File to PDF

[Trevor Ockenden]

Thank you all for your responses to this query. I will have to go into this further. 
If I can determine anything worthwhile I'll certainly post my comments (assuming we 
have a list).

Cheers

Trevor Ockenden
Open Systems Professionals
M: +61 414 731 634
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: The lists are closing - REPRIEVE

[Trevor Ockenden]

Great news!

Thanks again Cliff

Cheers

Trevor Ockenden
OSP


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Data typing in MV Basic

[Trevor Ockenden]

Charles

I feel we may be in agreement here but I'm not sure.

A = 1 assigns a numeric integer. The expression need not contain operators
(+,-,etc) to be numeric.
A = "1" assigns a string however, as you have explicitly declared it to be
string.
A = "1" + 2 assigns a numeric integer value (3) as the result is numeric.
A = "one" + 2 assigns a zero - according to the error message.

For the benefit of those watching on the side-lines...

This is why a dimensioned array should (if possible) be used where
accumulations are concerned as the elements of dimensioned arrays are
individual variables and as such can by typed numeric to speed the
mathematics whereas dynamic arrays in this situation are always storing the
data as a string so conversions are carried out before and after each
mathematical accumulation.

Hope this has been of interest to some.

Cheers

Trevor Ockenden
Open Systems Professionals

- Original Message - 
From: "Results" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U2 Users Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing


> Trevor,
> I *think* the issue is that the mv runtime does typecast variables
> on the fly, transparently. Which means that assigning a number or the
> result of a numeric expression (AVAR = 1 * 3) results in AVAR becoming
> an Integer variable. If you then say something 'string-ish'  (AVAR =
> "The answer is " : AVAR)  then the variable is recast on the fly into a
> String variable.
>
> - Charles "Constant" Barouch
>
> Trevor Ockenden wrote:
>
> >Thank you Will but I consider "A = 1" to be an assignment of the number 1
> >being the result of expression "1" which in my books is numeric.
> >
> >To clarify this point for others...
> >
> >"anything on the right hand side of an assignment symbol (in this case
"=")
> >is an expression"
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Trevor Ockenden
> >OSP



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RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

[dave . meeks]

Well, why they don't "prove" anything, they do provide more convincing
evidence than the results you mention.  They are results comparing the same
query, against the same basic dataset, on the same machine
hardware/configuration.  

You are running the two queries/comparisons on dissimilar machines, and it's
entirely possible that something related to the configuration of the machine
itself is causing the problems.  

The very fact that Sara got the results she got is pretty compelling that it
IS competitive.  

As a side note, you've mentioned not understanding why people seem so miffed
about your position.  Consider that you have come onto the list on a number
of occasions, professed to know very little about the product, and then
proceed to lambast it in any number of ways.  You have questioned the very
legitimacy of the product and how anyone could consider it to be useful.
Now, consider that you are making these arguments out of ignorance and to a
crowd of professionals who have made quite a career/profession out of using
the product you find to be fundamentally illegitimate.  This doesn't even
mention the fact that you call into question the reputation/intelligence of
corporations such as Anhaueser-Busch, American Express, and IBM (to name a
few) who have production environments running UV.  Add to this companies
like Datatel, Hughes, and others running UniData.  I'm sure the board could
list hundreds of other big-name companies using the product, but we won't
bother.

Ultimately, the U2 products have proven themselves to be very successful.
They have, themselves, eclipsed the 1 BILLION in lifetime revenue, and have
been the underlying technology used in multiple BILLIONS in overall products
in the market today, through the VARs that embed them in their applications.
I guess it's just kind of hard to see much of your position holding water
based on this...  It's not a "have they made as much as the Big Three"
argument.  It's a "have they been very successful" argument.  And, in that
argument, the answer is an emphatic yes.

-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Sent: 3/30/2004 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

Dave,

> I think the results point out the fallacy of your arguments.  

The results Sara posted here does NOT Prove anything, cause my results
show the EXACT Opposite.

So the deciding factor is to analyze what Sara wrote to come up with
the results she posted

Again post the code!

Here is my code on MS SQL-SERVER that returns a resultset.
Select firstName from Customers where firstName like 'Sar%';


Machine: 950 MHZ Athlon
Database: MSSQL SERVER 2K
Records: 20 Million
Indexes: NO
Search Time: 2 Seconds

What is your code on UV that returns the above results?

If you can prove that UV Comes back in 5 Seconds under the above
Conditions...I would be most happy to agree that UV is Competitive.

Thanks,
Joe Eugene



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 6:36 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)
> 
>  I think the results point out the fallacy of your arguments.  It
shows,
> pretty definitevly, that UV can and does perform as well/better as
Oracle,
> albeit under certain circumstances (ie, I'm sure other kinds of
queries
> could produce different results).  It doesn't mean you will always get
> better performance, but rather, it offers competitive performance
(better
> for some things, worse for others)
> 
>  However, one thing I did want to address is your QUAD processor
point.
> You've made it a few times, and I just had to point out that it is
> irrelevant to the discussion.  While UV will take native advantage of
> multi-processors in it's execution, a single query executed by a
single
> user, especially such as that listed, will execute on a single
processor,
> so
> no benefits will be seen for being on a QUAD (or a 64-way) machine.
So,
> in
> reality, you are talking about the performance equivalent of operating
on
> a
> single processor machine of whatever rating it has (and obviously,
memory,
> other applications running, etc... impact that)
> 
>  Dave
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Sent: 3/30/2004 6:07 PM
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)
> 
> Sara,
> 
> Can you please post your Query and results... Cause I am seeing the
> EXACT Opposite...as I posted earlier.
> 
> Oracle Query is what?
> Select firstName from Customers where firstName like 'Sar%';
> 
> The above takes about 7-9 Times More Time to get any results on Our UV
> QUAD PROCESSOR MACHINE.
> 
> Please post your PICK/BASIC Statement.
> 
> Also you might want to dump the data in a separate table... other than
> something you use for other things.
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe Eugene
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of S

RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

[dave . meeks]

Well, my understanding of the query used was a single key field query based
on an indexed key.  This would involve simply reading the index entry, and
then doing hash reads on the records contained in that index key. 

When sorting, at least on some systems, we do have a parallel/threaded sort
engine to perform a merge-sort similar to what you describe.  

Just didn't seem that this called for such a need.

Dave 

-Original Message-
From: Robert Colquhoun
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Sent: 3/30/2004 7:01 PM
Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

Hello Dave,

At 09:36 AM 31/03/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>However, one thing I did want to address is your QUAD processor point.
>You've made it a few times, and I just had to point out that it is
>irrelevant to the discussion.  While UV will take native advantage of
>multi-processors in it's execution, a single query executed by a single
>user, especially such as that listed, will execute on a single
processor, so
>no benefits will be seen for being on a QUAD (or a 64-way) machine.

Just curious about the above - why does it have to be that way?

You are reading in groups one at a time and then merging them into the
main 
list.  Surely you can have at least one thread read in the records(as
this 
takes a long time) and at least one other do an insertion sort on the
group 
and a merge sort on the main list simultaneously.

If you use a merge sort you should be able to break it into how many
ever 
processors are available then merge each processors final sub-list
together 
to get the result.

  - Robert

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Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 7:34:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> Trevor,
>I *think* the issue is that the mv runtime does typecast variables 
> on the fly, transparently. Which means that assigning a number or the 
> result of a numeric expression (AVAR = 1 * 3) results in AVAR becoming 
> an Integer variable. If you then say something 'string-ish'  (AVAR = 
> "The answer is " : AVAR)  then the variable is recast on 
> the fly into a 
> String variable.
> 
>- Charles "Constant" Barouch

Chuck (if that is your real name) yes you are correct.
The runtime engine recasts on the fly, but it leaves the recast variable as the new 
type until required to change it so

A = 1 ; * a is cast as numeric
PRINT "Hello world" ; * A is still numeric
A = A:"stuff" ; * A is now recast as a string
OPEN "MYFILE" TO XXX ; * A is still a string
A = A + 0 ; * A is now recast as a numeric again

My point is that any intervening operations on other variables don't change the last 
casting of A, only a forced "become a string!" or "become a numeric!" will recast it.

"Recasting beings in ten minutes" Will Johnson
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Re: Re Text File to PDF

[Craig Bennett]

Troy,

I don't think you can escape a conversion to image data for a faxed
solution.
For emailing it will depend on your PDF generator, but I can't imagine why a
PDF generator would turn text into images as a first preference (certainly
our product doesn't).


Craig

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RE: Re Text File to PDF

[Troy Buss (Logitek Systems)]

I've used active fax  from www.actfax.com with good results for faxing.
However, while investigating usage as a large report PDF emailer, it
generates huge PDF files since the content is converted to a graphic.  7
pages is 714kb.  Whereas using PCL2PDF the file is 14KB.

Does VSI-FAX or other pdf-enabled email/fax solutions handle the PDF
conversion as text instead?

Otherwise its back to pcl2pdf ( www.visual.co.uk/pcl2pdf.html ) and blat for
this other project I'm working on.

Thanks!
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RE: The lists are closing - REPRIEVE

[Logan, David (SST - Adelaide)]

I promise I won't make any more comments about "modern Universe", mea
maxima culpa 8-o

Regards

David Logan
Database Administrator
HP Managed Services
139 Frome Street,
Adelaide 5000
Australia

+61 8 8408 4273
+61 417 268 665



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of David Scoggins
Sent: Wednesday, 31 March 2004 10:22 AM
To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
Subject: RE: The lists are closing - REPRIEVE


Just let me be the first to say - YEA!!!

Thanks for the last minute reprieve, Gover... er, Clif.

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:43 PM
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: RE: The lists are closing - REPRIEVE



> I will keep the lists running as they are through the end of 
> the month of April. I want to give U2UG and any other parties 
> interesting in continuing this more time to figure out if/how/when.


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RE: The lists are closing - REPRIEVE

[David Scoggins]

Just let me be the first to say - YEA!!!

Thanks for the last minute reprieve, Gover... er, Clif.

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:43 PM
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: RE: The lists are closing - REPRIEVE



> I will keep the lists running as they are through the end of 
> the month of April. I want to give U2UG and any other parties 
> interesting in continuing this more time to figure out if/how/when.


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RE: The lists are closing - REPRIEVE

[moderator]

Oh, my. When I misread a situation, I do a bang up job of it, don't I? It
was never my intent to throw the community into such an uproar. I still
intend to quit being the list host and moderator. But it appears that not
only is U2UG not sure how/if/when they could take on the load, but I
didn't know there would be such resistance.

I will keep the lists running as they are through the end of the month of
April. I want to give U2UG and any other parties interesting in continuing
this more time to figure out if/how/when. That should take some of the
pressure off. *HOWEVER*, I am going to stick to the time commitments I
have made to myself and my other projects, so I will not be actively
moderating the list posts. It is up to all of you to try to regain your
decorum.

Dana did a great job in this post (what a job as my ghostwriter? :-). So I
will embed commentary below.


> 1. The U2 lists have been run by Clif Oliver for a very long time. Clif
> has
> no direct ties to IBM or any of the companies who owned the U2 products
> before hand.

That is correct. IBM is one of my clients. So was
Vmark/Ascential/Informix, Prime Computer, ADDS, and other manufacturers.
But I am not an employee, receive no funding from IBM for this list, no
official sponsorship, etc. Heck, last time I asked, I couldn't even get
them to give me an IBM shirt for my collection. Something about
consultants and the Legal Department .


> 3. Clif's decision to stop running the lists is his own. It was not a
> decision of U2UG or IBM - it was Clif's decision; a decision that is well
> within his rights (see #2 above).

Also correct. I'll share some of those reasons later. But U2UG had no part
in this decision. I didn't consult them, and I certainly did not ask for
their approval. This is my own choice.


>
> 4. One reason Clif decided to stop running the lists is that U2UG is
> moving
> toward filling the same need. Clif was looking at duplicate work coming
> along and decided that this was a good time to get out (if I read Clif's
> intentions correctly).

You read my intentions exactly correct. For a variety of reasons, I have
been contemplating shutting down for a couple of years. It was just that
U2UG was formed, they had official IBM recognition (NOT ownership or
control), and when the site went live, there were parallel forums that
duplicated everything the list tried to provide. So I thought the time was
here that I could bow out of this particular role without feeling like I
was abandoning the U2 Community. Just make an announcement and let
everyone shift over to a group and method already setting there, idling,
waiting for users.

I don't need to recap what has happened since I hit the [Send] button on
that message.


> 7. As Clif is pulling out of running the lists, the fora  become the only
> game in town. But this is not the end of the world. There exists the
> possibility that mail lists can continue with someone else running them.

Hopefully by providing the lists through April, I've relieved the pressure
on this situation.


>
> 8. The MAJOR topic of discussion at tomorrow's U2UG board meeting will be
> the future of U2 communication technology. Clif is expected to be present
> at
> the meeting and will probably be willing to share his accumulated wisdom
> in
> this area, provided we don't provoke him too much in our ongoing
> discussions
> of the past, present and future of communication in the U2 community.

I'll be there. Now let me add some additional points.

There has been some misunderstanding about U2UG's role in this, even with
the Board. U2UG is not the "rightful heir" to the lists. *IF* they, or
another party, want to take up the hosting of the list it will be with a
clear statement and ongoing commitment that the contents of the list are
free of any intellectual property restrictions. What gets posted to the
list is free (as in freedom) for anyone to use as they see fit. They must
also commit to providing this list, or alternative to it, for free (as in
beer), that is, no charge. (Yes, I favor the BSD license over the GPL--how
did you guess?) In addition, I will give a two week notice on the list if
a new "someone" is going to host it. That will give everyone who does not
want to participate a chance to unsubscribe. That way their address will
not be in the transfered database.

I hope that clears up that discussion, as far as privacy and ip issues are
concerned.


Some of the reasons I am bowing out of this role:

1. I've been doing it for what 8, 10 years? It has been so long, I forget.
I  simply want to spend the time working on some other things. I don't
have enough time to do both. And I strongly feel that if you are going to
host and moderate a list, you must take it seriously, and put your very
best work into it. I'd like to spend that time pusuing other interests.

2. E-mail has gotten onerous. Behind the scenes, I spend from 1/2 an hour
to a couple of hours per day dealing with bounce messages, misdirected
me

Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[Results]

Trevor,
   I *think* the issue is that the mv runtime does typecast variables 
on the fly, transparently. Which means that assigning a number or the 
result of a numeric expression (AVAR = 1 * 3) results in AVAR becoming 
an Integer variable. If you then say something 'string-ish'  (AVAR = 
"The answer is " : AVAR)  then the variable is recast on the fly into a 
String variable.

   - Charles "Constant" Barouch

Trevor Ockenden wrote:

Thank you Will but I consider "A = 1" to be an assignment of the number 1
being the result of expression "1" which in my books is numeric.
To clarify this point for others...

"anything on the right hand side of an assignment symbol (in this case "=")
is an expression"
Cheers

Trevor Ockenden
OSP
- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U2 Users Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

 

In a message dated 3/30/2004 12:35:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
   

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 

You are partly correct when you say UV treats all data as strings.
 

However,
 

if the UV programmer is careful he/she can get it to do maths
 

processing.
 

Variables within UVBasic are string unless the result of an expression
 

is
 

numeric whereby it becomes numeric.

UV stores numeric data such as dates, time and numbers as a
string value with no decimal point etc. quite deliberately.
 

Trevor partly right.  However the MvBASIC statement "A = 1" makes the
   

variable A into a numeric typed datum.  I'm not sure you could say this is
"the result of an expression" being mathematical, after all Store is both a
string and a numeric command.  The system converts the loading of a purely
numeric argument into a LOADN or STOREN type command on some MV systems,
which the loading of a string is a LOAD or LOADS or STORES or something
similar to that.
 

  Of course the programmer just says A = 1 or A = "DOG" and doesn't have
   

to worry about how the argument is typed in the run engine.
 

"Run Engine" Will
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 www.KeyAlly.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

[Marlene Yokoyama]

Are you ever going to just go away..!  So sick of this
discussion!

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3/30/2004 3:56:28 PM >>>
Dave,

> I think the results point out the fallacy of your arguments.  

The results Sara posted here does NOT Prove anything, cause my results
show the EXACT Opposite.

So the deciding factor is to analyze what Sara wrote to come up with
the results she posted

Again post the code!

Here is my code on MS SQL-SERVER that returns a resultset.
Select firstName from Customers where firstName like 'Sar%';


Machine: 950 MHZ Athlon
Database: MSSQL SERVER 2K
Records: 20 Million
Indexes: NO
Search Time: 2 Seconds

What is your code on UV that returns the above results?

If you can prove that UV Comes back in 5 Seconds under the above
Conditions...I would be most happy to agree that UV is Competitive.

Thanks,
Joe Eugene



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 6:36 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)
> 
>  I think the results point out the fallacy of your arguments.  It
shows,
> pretty definitevly, that UV can and does perform as well/better as
Oracle,
> albeit under certain circumstances (ie, I'm sure other kinds of
queries
> could produce different results).  It doesn't mean you will always
get
> better performance, but rather, it offers competitive performance
(better
> for some things, worse for others)
> 
>  However, one thing I did want to address is your QUAD processor
point.
> You've made it a few times, and I just had to point out that it is
> irrelevant to the discussion.  While UV will take native advantage
of
> multi-processors in it's execution, a single query executed by a
single
> user, especially such as that listed, will execute on a single
processor,
> so
> no benefits will be seen for being on a QUAD (or a 64-way) machine.
So,
> in
> reality, you are talking about the performance equivalent of
operating
on
> a
> single processor machine of whatever rating it has (and obviously,
memory,
> other applications running, etc... impact that)
> 
>  Dave
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Sent: 3/30/2004 6:07 PM
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)
> 
> Sara,
> 
> Can you please post your Query and results... Cause I am seeing the
> EXACT Opposite...as I posted earlier.
> 
> Oracle Query is what?
> Select firstName from Customers where firstName like 'Sar%';
> 
> The above takes about 7-9 Times More Time to get any results on Our
UV
> QUAD PROCESSOR MACHINE.
> 
> Please post your PICK/BASIC Statement.
> 
> Also you might want to dump the data in a separate table... other
than
> something you use for other things.
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe Eugene
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On
> > Behalf Of Sara Burns
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:03 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> >
> > I am probably in the best position to compare apples with apples.
> > I have both UniVerse and Oracle on the same IBM p660 4 processor
box
> with
> > 6Gb RAM.  The 800,000 customers are replicated from UniVerse to
> Oracle,
> > although the Oracle version is only a subset of the attributes
> required by
> > a
> > different application.
> >
> > Both have an index on the first line of the Postal Address.
> >
> > My query was to show all customers with the first line of the
Postal
> > address
> > like %EXPLORATION
> >
> > Results:-
> > UniVerse 9 seconds
> > Oracle 25 seconds
> >
> > Sara Burns
> >
> >
> > Sara Burns (SEB)
> > Development Team Leader
> >
> > Public Trust
> > Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI)
> >
> > Mobile: 027 457 5974
> > < 
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > Information contained in this communication is confidential. If
you
> are
> > not
> > the intended recipient the information should not be used,
disclosed,
> > copied
> > or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views
nor
> the
> > official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or
representation
> is
> > made that the communication is free of errors, virus or
interference.
> >
> >
> > --
> > u2-users mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users 
> 
> 
> --
> u2-users mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users 
> --
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[Trevor Ockenden]

Thank you Will but I consider "A = 1" to be an assignment of the number 1
being the result of expression "1" which in my books is numeric.

To clarify this point for others...

"anything on the right hand side of an assignment symbol (in this case "=")
is an expression"

Cheers

Trevor Ockenden
OSP

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "U2 Users Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing


> In a message dated 3/30/2004 12:35:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > You are partly correct when you say UV treats all data as strings.
However,
> > if the UV programmer is careful he/she can get it to do maths
processing.
> > Variables within UVBasic are string unless the result of an expression
is
> > numeric whereby it becomes numeric.
> >
> > UV stores numeric data such as dates, time and numbers as a
> > string value with no decimal point etc. quite deliberately.
>
> Trevor partly right.  However the MvBASIC statement "A = 1" makes the
variable A into a numeric typed datum.  I'm not sure you could say this is
"the result of an expression" being mathematical, after all Store is both a
string and a numeric command.  The system converts the loading of a purely
numeric argument into a LOADN or STOREN type command on some MV systems,
which the loading of a string is a LOAD or LOADS or STORES or something
similar to that.
>Of course the programmer just says A = 1 or A = "DOG" and doesn't have
to worry about how the argument is typed in the run engine.
> "Run Engine" Will
> -- 
> u2-users mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
>


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RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

[E Y Neu]

Sara, 

Were server loading issues the same between your queries? Were both DB's
online and active during the queries? Same number of users? same time of
day, etc.

As an interesting academic exercise would it be possible to run after hours
tests by pausing UV during the Oracle query and whatever the Oracle's
equivalent is (quiescent) during the UV's query? It might also be helpful to
run the same query a few times to produce an average time for query. You'll
also need to address any lingering memory and temp space traces of the files
between tests (logging off between tests might do that, not really sure on
that one...)


Eric Y. Neu
Sr. Programmer Analyst
Zetron, Inc.






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Joe Eugene
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:07 PM
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)


Sara,

Can you please post your Query and results... Cause I am seeing the
EXACT Opposite...as I posted earlier.

Oracle Query is what?
Select firstName from Customers where firstName like 'Sar%';

The above takes about 7-9 Times More Time to get any results on Our UV
QUAD PROCESSOR MACHINE.

Please post your PICK/BASIC Statement.

Also you might want to dump the data in a separate table... other than
something you use for other things.

Thanks,
Joe Eugene


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Sara Burns
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> 
> I am probably in the best position to compare apples with apples.
> I have both UniVerse and Oracle on the same IBM p660 4 processor box
with
> 6Gb RAM.  The 800,000 customers are replicated from UniVerse to
Oracle,
> although the Oracle version is only a subset of the attributes
required by
> a
> different application.
> 
> Both have an index on the first line of the Postal Address.
> 
> My query was to show all customers with the first line of the Postal
> address
> like %EXPLORATION
> 
> Results:-
> UniVerse 9 seconds
> Oracle 25 seconds
> 
> Sara Burns
> 
> 
> Sara Burns (SEB)
> Development Team Leader
> 
> Public Trust
> Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI)
> 
> Mobile: 027 457 5974
> < 
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you
are
> not
> the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed,
> copied
> or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor
the
> official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation
is
> made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.
> 
> 
> --
> u2-users mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users


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RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

[Robert Colquhoun]

Hello Dave,

At 09:36 AM 31/03/2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
However, one thing I did want to address is your QUAD processor point.
You've made it a few times, and I just had to point out that it is
irrelevant to the discussion.  While UV will take native advantage of
multi-processors in it's execution, a single query executed by a single
user, especially such as that listed, will execute on a single processor, so
no benefits will be seen for being on a QUAD (or a 64-way) machine.
Just curious about the above - why does it have to be that way?

You are reading in groups one at a time and then merging them into the main 
list.  Surely you can have at least one thread read in the records(as this 
takes a long time) and at least one other do an insertion sort on the group 
and a merge sort on the main list simultaneously.

If you use a merge sort you should be able to break it into how many ever 
processors are available then merge each processors final sub-list together 
to get the result.

 - Robert

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Re: The lists are closing

[Tony Wood]

So long and thanks for all the quips!

Cliff, I have been a member for only a short time but I have found these
lists to be extremely useful. Thankyou for enriching our U2 experience and
for helping us solve the problems we have posed. Your effort in keeping the
noise to an acceptable level have always been appreciated.

Regards,

T.


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RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

[Joe Eugene]

Dave,

> I think the results point out the fallacy of your arguments.  

The results Sara posted here does NOT Prove anything, cause my results
show the EXACT Opposite.

So the deciding factor is to analyze what Sara wrote to come up with
the results she posted

Again post the code!

Here is my code on MS SQL-SERVER that returns a resultset.
Select firstName from Customers where firstName like 'Sar%';


Machine: 950 MHZ Athlon
Database: MSSQL SERVER 2K
Records: 20 Million
Indexes: NO
Search Time: 2 Seconds

What is your code on UV that returns the above results?

If you can prove that UV Comes back in 5 Seconds under the above
Conditions...I would be most happy to agree that UV is Competitive.

Thanks,
Joe Eugene



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 6:36 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)
> 
>  I think the results point out the fallacy of your arguments.  It
shows,
> pretty definitevly, that UV can and does perform as well/better as
Oracle,
> albeit under certain circumstances (ie, I'm sure other kinds of
queries
> could produce different results).  It doesn't mean you will always get
> better performance, but rather, it offers competitive performance
(better
> for some things, worse for others)
> 
>  However, one thing I did want to address is your QUAD processor
point.
> You've made it a few times, and I just had to point out that it is
> irrelevant to the discussion.  While UV will take native advantage of
> multi-processors in it's execution, a single query executed by a
single
> user, especially such as that listed, will execute on a single
processor,
> so
> no benefits will be seen for being on a QUAD (or a 64-way) machine.
So,
> in
> reality, you are talking about the performance equivalent of operating
on
> a
> single processor machine of whatever rating it has (and obviously,
memory,
> other applications running, etc... impact that)
> 
>  Dave
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Sent: 3/30/2004 6:07 PM
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)
> 
> Sara,
> 
> Can you please post your Query and results... Cause I am seeing the
> EXACT Opposite...as I posted earlier.
> 
> Oracle Query is what?
> Select firstName from Customers where firstName like 'Sar%';
> 
> The above takes about 7-9 Times More Time to get any results on Our UV
> QUAD PROCESSOR MACHINE.
> 
> Please post your PICK/BASIC Statement.
> 
> Also you might want to dump the data in a separate table... other than
> something you use for other things.
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe Eugene
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of Sara Burns
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:03 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> >
> > I am probably in the best position to compare apples with apples.
> > I have both UniVerse and Oracle on the same IBM p660 4 processor box
> with
> > 6Gb RAM.  The 800,000 customers are replicated from UniVerse to
> Oracle,
> > although the Oracle version is only a subset of the attributes
> required by
> > a
> > different application.
> >
> > Both have an index on the first line of the Postal Address.
> >
> > My query was to show all customers with the first line of the Postal
> > address
> > like %EXPLORATION
> >
> > Results:-
> > UniVerse 9 seconds
> > Oracle 25 seconds
> >
> > Sara Burns
> >
> >
> > Sara Burns (SEB)
> > Development Team Leader
> >
> > Public Trust
> > Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI)
> >
> > Mobile: 027 457 5974
> > < 
> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you
> are
> > not
> > the intended recipient the information should not be used,
disclosed,
> > copied
> > or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor
> the
> > official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or
representation
> is
> > made that the communication is free of errors, virus or
interference.
> >
> >
> > --
> > u2-users mailing list
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
> 
> 
> --
> u2-users mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
> --
> u2-users mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

[Leroy Dreyfuss]

Dave,

Just thought you'd like to know that multi-threaded sorting is available
(via a uvconfig parameter) in 10.1.

Regards,

LeRoy F. Dreyfuss
Advanced Technical Services - UniVerse
IBM U2 Data Management Solutions
Tel: 303-672-1254  Fax: 303-294-4832
Mobile: 720-341-4317
External email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW:  http://www.ibm.com/software/data/u2/support

www.ibm.com/software/data/u2/support - Open, Query, Update, Search -
Online!


   
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 ialsoftware.com   
 Sent by:   To
 u2-users-bounces@ [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 oliver.com cc
   
   Subject
 03/30/2004 04:36  RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)   
 PM
   
   
 Please respond to 
 U2 Users  
  Discussion List  
   
   




 I think the results point out the fallacy of your arguments.  It shows,
pretty definitevly, that UV can and does perform as well/better as Oracle,
albeit under certain circumstances (ie, I'm sure other kinds of queries
could produce different results).  It doesn't mean you will always get
better performance, but rather, it offers competitive performance (better
for some things, worse for others)

 However, one thing I did want to address is your QUAD processor point.
You've made it a few times, and I just had to point out that it is
irrelevant to the discussion.  While UV will take native advantage of
multi-processors in it's execution, a single query executed by a single
user, especially such as that listed, will execute on a single processor,
so
no benefits will be seen for being on a QUAD (or a 64-way) machine.  So, in
reality, you are talking about the performance equivalent of operating on a
single processor machine of whatever rating it has (and obviously, memory,
other applications running, etc... impact that)

 Dave



-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Sent: 3/30/2004 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

Sara,

Can you please post your Query and results... Cause I am seeing the
EXACT Opposite...as I posted earlier.

Oracle Query is what?
Select firstName from Customers where firstName like 'Sar%';

The above takes about 7-9 Times More Time to get any results on Our UV
QUAD PROCESSOR MACHINE.

Please post your PICK/BASIC Statement.

Also you might want to dump the data in a separate table... other than
something you use for other things.

Thanks,
Joe Eugene


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Sara Burns
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
>
> I am probably in the best position to compare apples with apples.
> I have both UniVerse and Oracle on the same IBM p660 4 processor box
with
> 6Gb RAM.  The 800,000 customers are replicated from UniVerse to
Oracle,
> although the Oracle version is only a subset of the attributes
required by
> a
> different application.
>
> Both have an index on the first line of the Postal Address.
>
> My query was to show all customers with the first line of the Postal
> address
> like %EXPLORATION
>
> Results:-
> UniVerse 9 seconds
> Oracle 25 seconds
>
> Sara Burns
>
>
> Sara Burns (SEB)
> Development Team Leader
>
> Public Trust
> Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI)
>
> Mobile: 027 457 5974
> < 
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you
are
> not
> the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed,
> copied
> or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor
the
> official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation
is
> made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.
>
>
> --
> u2-users mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users


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Re: The lists are closing

[Eugene Perry]

Don't forget the 80/20 rule.  80% of the work gets done by 20% of the
people.

Eugene

- Original Message -
From: "David Wolverton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'U2 Users Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 11:33 AM
Subject: RE: The lists are closing


> Good point!!  I currently sit on a Volunteer Board (Treasurer no less) -
and
> as anyone who does this will likely attest - there is nothing like working
> on a volunteer Board to make you fear for (or despise ) humanity in
> general!  The number of after-the fact non-volunteers pointing out what we
> *should* have done is always staggering...
>
> But I'm sure my turn will come for service to the U2 community...  Until
> then, let me tell you what you *should* have done... 
>
> DW
>
> 
>
> Don't put 'volunteer' in the past tense. We will be looking for SIG
> leaders soon, we will be looking for forum moderators soon, and we will be
> transitioning to an elected board. There's always work for more hands in
an
> organization of this type. If IBM keeps growing the U2 market (and it
seems
> to be growing as we speak) then there will only be more need in the
future,
> not less.
>
> - Charles "I Volunteered" Barouch
>
> 
>
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RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

[dave . meeks]

 I think the results point out the fallacy of your arguments.  It shows,
pretty definitevly, that UV can and does perform as well/better as Oracle,
albeit under certain circumstances (ie, I'm sure other kinds of queries
could produce different results).  It doesn't mean you will always get
better performance, but rather, it offers competitive performance (better
for some things, worse for others)

 However, one thing I did want to address is your QUAD processor point.
You've made it a few times, and I just had to point out that it is
irrelevant to the discussion.  While UV will take native advantage of
multi-processors in it's execution, a single query executed by a single
user, especially such as that listed, will execute on a single processor, so
no benefits will be seen for being on a QUAD (or a 64-way) machine.  So, in
reality, you are talking about the performance equivalent of operating on a
single processor machine of whatever rating it has (and obviously, memory,
other applications running, etc... impact that)

 Dave

  

-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Sent: 3/30/2004 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

Sara,

Can you please post your Query and results... Cause I am seeing the
EXACT Opposite...as I posted earlier.

Oracle Query is what?
Select firstName from Customers where firstName like 'Sar%';

The above takes about 7-9 Times More Time to get any results on Our UV
QUAD PROCESSOR MACHINE.

Please post your PICK/BASIC Statement.

Also you might want to dump the data in a separate table... other than
something you use for other things.

Thanks,
Joe Eugene


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Sara Burns
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> 
> I am probably in the best position to compare apples with apples.
> I have both UniVerse and Oracle on the same IBM p660 4 processor box
with
> 6Gb RAM.  The 800,000 customers are replicated from UniVerse to
Oracle,
> although the Oracle version is only a subset of the attributes
required by
> a
> different application.
> 
> Both have an index on the first line of the Postal Address.
> 
> My query was to show all customers with the first line of the Postal
> address
> like %EXPLORATION
> 
> Results:-
> UniVerse 9 seconds
> Oracle 25 seconds
> 
> Sara Burns
> 
> 
> Sara Burns (SEB)
> Development Team Leader
> 
> Public Trust
> Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI)
> 
> Mobile: 027 457 5974
> < 
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you
are
> not
> the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed,
> copied
> or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor
the
> official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation
is
> made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.
> 
> 
> --
> u2-users mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users


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RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)

[Joe Eugene]

Sara,

Can you please post your Query and results... Cause I am seeing the
EXACT Opposite...as I posted earlier.

Oracle Query is what?
Select firstName from Customers where firstName like 'Sar%';

The above takes about 7-9 Times More Time to get any results on Our UV
QUAD PROCESSOR MACHINE.

Please post your PICK/BASIC Statement.

Also you might want to dump the data in a separate table... other than
something you use for other things.

Thanks,
Joe Eugene


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Sara Burns
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> 
> I am probably in the best position to compare apples with apples.
> I have both UniVerse and Oracle on the same IBM p660 4 processor box
with
> 6Gb RAM.  The 800,000 customers are replicated from UniVerse to
Oracle,
> although the Oracle version is only a subset of the attributes
required by
> a
> different application.
> 
> Both have an index on the first line of the Postal Address.
> 
> My query was to show all customers with the first line of the Postal
> address
> like %EXPLORATION
> 
> Results:-
> UniVerse 9 seconds
> Oracle 25 seconds
> 
> Sara Burns
> 
> 
> Sara Burns (SEB)
> Development Team Leader
> 
> Public Trust
> Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI)
> 
> Mobile: 027 457 5974
> < 
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you
are
> not
> the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed,
> copied
> or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor
the
> official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation
is
> made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.
> 
> 
> --
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> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users


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Thank You!

[Lyn Marshall]

Clif,

You have our unending gratitude for all you have done, for all these
years.

So long, and thanks for all the, well, you know!


CONFIDENTIAL NOTICE:  This e-mail and any attachments may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail,
delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of
this information by a person other than the intended recipient is
unauthorized and may be illegal.
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Database horse races: just the facts, maam, just the facts!

[Will]

Thank you Sara for giving us the real facts (and just the facts).  Seems this should 
put the arguement to bed unless someone has some other real FACTS.  

It begs the question, however, as to why Oracle is used at all, ... being three times 
slower that is.

Patrick "Will" Williams, President
American Computer Technics, Inc.
919-567-0042  Raleigh, NC
  - Original Message - 
  From: Sara Burns 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:02 PM
  Subject: Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing


  I am probably in the best position to compare apples with apples.  
  I have both UniVerse and Oracle on the same IBM p660 4 processor box with
  6Gb RAM.  The 800,000 customers are replicated from UniVerse to Oracle,
  although the Oracle version is only a subset of the attributes required by a
  different application.
   
  Both have an index on the first line of the Postal Address.
   
  My query was to show all customers with the first line of the Postal address
  like %EXPLORATION
   
  Results:-
  UniVerse 9 seconds
  Oracle 25 seconds
   
  Sara Burns
   
   
  Sara Burns (SEB) 
  Development Team Leader

  Public Trust 
  Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI) 

  Mobile: 027 457 5974
  <  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you are not
  the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed, copied
  or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor the
  official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation is
  made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.

   
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RE: [ADMIN] Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[Jeff Schasny]

Then perhaps you should take your own advice and "HIT DELETE"

-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[unsightly rubbish snipped]

IF you feel my comments are without SUBSTANCE... 
WHY NOT ARGUE BACK with some Valid Proof...

Instead of start Calling People Names... like school kids!

Yes, it is only Normal when People Fail or Run out of Arguments... they
start making Personal Remarks... This Denotes their FAILURE!

Joe Eugene
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RE: [ADMIN] Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[Joe Eugene]

Mr. Moderator...

I started an ARGUMENT ALRIGHT... But I did NOT Make any Personal
Comments
To Anybody on this LIST Until some UN-PROFESSIONAL IDIOT WON'T STOP!
 
You might want to check the emails.

> statements that are untrue because you are ignorant and spout off
about

IF you feel my comments are without SUBSTANCE... 
WHY NOT ARGUE BACK with some Valid Proof...

Instead of start Calling People Names... like school kids!

Yes, it is only Normal when People Fail or Run out of Arguments... they
start making Personal Remarks... This Denotes their FAILURE!

Joe Eugene



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:32 PM
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> 
> In a message dated 3/30/2004 12:22:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> > Clif,
> >
> > Sorry... I kept this discussion to the best of my Professionalism,
> > until a few folks here Provoked with some serious name calling.
> >
> > Its appears bad enough...
> > some folks here cannot discuss stuff in a constructive
> > argument.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Joe Eugene
> 
> Joe that is untrue, you started the greased ball by launching an
atomic
> bomb without really understanding what you are talking about.  As many
> people pointed out here, your attacks are without substance.  You make
> statements that are untrue because you are ignorant and spout off
about
> how horrible something is which does not even exist.  When you are
called
> on it, you change the subject.
>Next?
> Will "It's not the Sun it's the Moon" Johnson
> --
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Re: "treated as strings" (was Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing)

[Sdgrw]

Don't you think the UV people meant that everything in UV is "stored  in the 
file" ("treated") as strings (characters)? Maybe that confused Joe,  not 
coming from a pick environment.
Ron "You think this is intense? I used to work with Will"  Walenciak  
 :)
ps: Will: I'd work with you again in a minute! :)
In a message dated 3/30/2004 2:30:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

In a  message dated 3/30/2004 12:06:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> Our UV Developers tell me,  everything in UV is treated as Strings..
> Do you think MATH Functions  will Perform better in UV than a DataBase that
> supports  DataTypes?

Joe this is not true
Did it ever occur to you that maybe  you are misinterpreting what they are 
saying or perhaps they are not saying it  right or perhaps don't know any better?

Everything in UV is NOT treated  as a string.  UV has several datum types, 
you just don't see them on the  surface, they are handled underneath.  I can 
assure you that math  functions (provided you don't specifically request 
stringmath) are treated as  numbers, numeric types, etc.  They are absolutely not 
treated as strings,  except where the programmer makes specific string function 
calls using those  variables.
Will "Stringless" Johnson
Fast Forward
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Re: The lists are closing

[iggchamp]

Your not just going to lay there and take that are you?

Scott "Stir the pot" Thompson
> In a message dated 3/30/2004 5:18:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> writes:
> 
> > Listen, Will "the blind, deaf and possibly dumb" Johnson
> > 
> > Are you hearing nothing?
> 
> Please don't start insulting me you ignorant fat slob.
> Will 
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Re: Re Text File to PDF

[Karl L Pearson]

We use VSI-FAX from Esker software. When you submit a job to the fax
server for forwarding to an email address, it converts the file to pdf
on the fly. There's no pre-processing necessary. The default is to
convert it to a .tif file, but there's a switch in the .ini file to
change that default to .pdf conversions, which we prefer.

Karl

Thanks Clif. Your service has been remarkable. As a hoster of email
lists, I applaud you. I know what you've been doing...

KLP

On Tue, 2004-03-30 at 11:04, Schalk van Zyl wrote:
> Trevor,
> 
> We did that (and more - like 'printing' to email) with txt2pdf from 
> SANFACE (www.sanface.com)
> Cheers.
> 
> Schalk
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Trevor Ockenden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 30 March 2004 05:36 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Text file to PDF
> 
> And now for something completely different!
> 
> Any help or suggestions regarding converting out text reports in the 
> &HOLD& file to PDF
> files for subsequent e-mailing.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Trevor Ockenden
> Open Systems Professionals
> M: +61 414 731 634
> E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free by AVG 6.0.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.642 / Virus Database: 410 - Release Date: 24/03/2004
-- 
Karl L. Pearson
Director of IT,
ATS Industrial Supply
Direct: 801-978-4429
Toll-free: 888-972-3182 x29
Fax: 801-972-3888
http://www.atsindustrial.com
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RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[James Canale, Jr.]

>>Results:-
>>UniVerse 9 seconds
>>Oracle 25 seconds
 
Now this is what makes this list GREAT!  Even more important than who the
results favored, it is real information that helps us all make better
decisions.  Thanks for the FACTS Sara.

Regards,

Jim


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Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[Sara Burns]

I am probably in the best position to compare apples with apples.  
I have both UniVerse and Oracle on the same IBM p660 4 processor box with
6Gb RAM.  The 800,000 customers are replicated from UniVerse to Oracle,
although the Oracle version is only a subset of the attributes required by a
different application.
 
Both have an index on the first line of the Postal Address.
 
My query was to show all customers with the first line of the Postal address
like %EXPLORATION
 
Results:-
UniVerse 9 seconds
Oracle 25 seconds
 
Sara Burns
 
 
Sara Burns (SEB) 
Development Team Leader

Public Trust 
Phone: +64 (04) 474-3841 (DDI) 

Mobile: 027 457 5974
<  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Information contained in this communication is confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient the information should not be used, disclosed, copied
or commercialised. The information is not necessarily the views nor the
official communication of Public Trust. No guarantee or representation is
made that the communication is free of errors, virus or interference.

 
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Re: dhl shipping software integration

[Results]

George,
   I've done direct ODBC for UPS and FedEx from mv (D3 on linux in my 
case), so I suspect that DHL has to have the same ability.

   - Charles "I actually received a check for .02 cents this week" Barouch

George Gallen wrote:

Currently We integrate with our UPS Worldship software by FTPing our
shipping info over to the UPS machine, then an ODBC is setup to link the
ftp file
to it's own use.
Then all we need to do is key in a "key" on the UPS software, it looks
up the shipping
and everything else needed and fills in automagically. As well, when we
close out the
UPS machine, it creates a file which we then FTP out and parse apart for
the tracking#.
Does anyone know if DHL's software can handle the same thing? or what
methods you
use to interface with DHL shipping software.
Any not too pricy (<$1000) 3rd party solutions ok as well.

We are on UV on Unix, and the DHL machine is on the network.

Thanks
George
George Gallen
Senior Programmer/Analyst
Accounting/Data Division
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ph:856.848.1000 Ext 220
SLACK Incorporated - An innovative information, education and management
company
http://www.slackinc.com
 

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 Charles Barouch
 www.KeyAlly.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: U2UG Contract

[Ray Wurlod]

"US copyright law" doesn't help me in Australia.  Maybe "applicable copyright law" is 
a better term.  Then, "Unless explicitly forbidden postings can be copied..." is my 
preferred wording on that issue.

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:50:00 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (U2 Users Discussion List)
Subject: Re: U2UG Contract

> "All postings to this forum remain the sole property of the poster.  Postings 
> however can be copied, observing US copyright law, for non-profit purposes.  U2ug 
> does not take any responsbility for any postings to this forum." 

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dhl shipping software integration

[George Gallen]

Currently We integrate with our UPS Worldship software by FTPing our
shipping info over to the UPS machine, then an ODBC is setup to link the
ftp file
to it's own use.

Then all we need to do is key in a "key" on the UPS software, it looks
up the shipping
and everything else needed and fills in automagically. As well, when we
close out the
UPS machine, it creates a file which we then FTP out and parse apart for
the tracking#.

Does anyone know if DHL's software can handle the same thing? or what
methods you
use to interface with DHL shipping software.

Any not too pricy (<$1000) 3rd party solutions ok as well.

We are on UV on Unix, and the DHL machine is on the network.

Thanks
George

George Gallen
Senior Programmer/Analyst
Accounting/Data Division
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ph:856.848.1000 Ext 220

SLACK Incorporated - An innovative information, education and management
company
http://www.slackinc.com


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RE: The lists are closing

[Walker, Dave (Ivy Hill)]

Now Will... we don't know that he's fat

--
Dave Walker
¸..· ´¨¨))  -:¦:-
  -:¦:-¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
 ((¸¸.·´  ..·´  -:¦:-
((¸¸.·´   * Peace

 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:39 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: The lists are closing
> 
> 
> In a message dated 3/30/2004 5:18:37 AM Eastern Standard 
> Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> > Listen, Will "the blind, deaf and possibly dumb" Johnson
> > 
> > Are you hearing nothing?
> 
> Please don't start insulting me you ignorant fat slob.
> Will 
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Re: The lists are closing

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 2:53:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> Will,
>So, your saying that where there's a Will, there's a way to e-mail 
> reply to forums? ;)
> 
>- Charles "Stop using my middle name thingy, Mom, he's 
> copying me 
> again, Mm!" Barouch

Yes Chuck exactly.  For example www.genforum.com and boards.ancestry.com use this 
method.
1) If a person posts in a forum, the message appears in the forum (web) and ALSO 
anyone subscribed to the email-connected-list for that forum gets an email with the 
entire posting therein.
2) If a person responds in a forum, the response appears in the forum (web) and ALSO 
anyone subscribed to the email-connected-list for that forum gets an email with the 
entire response.
3) Anyone who gets one of the two above emails, can respond directly to that email, 
and such response goes to anyone else on that email list, but does NOT make a copy go 
back into the forum from which it came


So therefore, you can have threads in forum, and also threads out of forum if you wish 
or response threads that exact for several layers out of forum or in forum.  Of course 
some people might also want the out-of-forum responses and threads to be archived, 
which we already do at infocus or whatever its called.
"First name thingie" Will
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Re: The lists are closing

[Results]

Will,
   So, your saying that where there's a Will, there's a way to e-mail 
reply to forums? ;)

   - Charles "Stop using my middle name thingy, Mom, he's copying me 
again, Mm!" Barouch

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In a message dated 3/30/2004 11:02:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 

6. The U2UG web site has U2 fora as the means of communication, something
which people have been asking for for a long time. The decision to start the
fora was made when the lists were also available so it was 
then considered
as something in addition to, not instead of, the lists.
   

It is possible to setup forums in such a way that:
1) You can respond in the forum OR
2) You can respond via email
I am subscribed to some genealogy lists that work exactly this way.
We get postings via emil (if subscribed) on every post that goes into the forum.
You can respond to the email directly OR you can click a link and go back to the forum and respond in the forum.
"So there" Will Johnson
 

--
Sincerely,
 Charles Barouch
 www.KeyAlly.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: U2UG Contract

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 11:24:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> There have been *zero* discussions as to 
> what our TOS should be other than to make sure that we indemnify U2UG from 
> copywrite issues. If you are concerned about the wording of 
> any part of the 
> TOS suggest an alternative wording.

"All postings to this forum remain the sole property of the poster.  Postings however 
can be copied, observing US copyright law, for non-profit purposes.  U2ug does not 
take any responsbility for any postings to this forum." 
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Re: The lists are closing

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 11:02:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> 6. The U2UG web site has U2 fora as the means of communication, something
> which people have been asking for for a long time. The decision to start the
> fora was made when the lists were also available so it was 
> then considered
> as something in addition to, not instead of, the lists.

It is possible to setup forums in such a way that:
1) You can respond in the forum OR
2) You can respond via email

I am subscribed to some genealogy lists that work exactly this way.
We get postings via emil (if subscribed) on every post that goes into the forum.
You can respond to the email directly OR you can click a link and go back to the forum 
and respond in the forum.
"So there" Will Johnson
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Re: The lists are closing

[Ron White]

I agree that they have done a good job and I certainly
applauded all involved in this effort.  I don't think I would
have done a better job and I am not criticizing the
work done.  I also have nothing but good to say about
the job that Clif has done and thank him for the many hours,
and I suspect, money he has given to the community.

As far as contributing to this effort, I am not permitted
that freedom by my current employer.  I get little time
away from the job for things like Spectrum, which I really
wanted to attend, or vacation for that matter.  Once
things were different but for now

I am just one of "those" that doesn't like fora.  I am a
member of U2UG and the GalaTech Multivalue Forum.
I don't do GalaTech much for the same reason as U2UG.
I prefer email communication in the form that Clif provided.

I am not trying to offend anyone or belittle the excellent work
that has been done with U2UG.

Ron "Oh brother, what hast thou wrought?" White :-)

- Original Message - 
From: "David Wolverton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'U2 Users Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: RE: The lists are closing


> LOL - Ron - where were you while they were BEGGING for people to become
> members and attend conference call meetings to decide how to set up the
> user's group and forum area?  It was MONTHS ago that they asked for input,
> but probably got just enough to realize they'd have to wing it...
>
> And in reality, for a totally NON-funded, volunteer effort, all I can say
is
> **WOW**...  GOOD JOB!!
>
> I look at it like this: If you had to do it yourself, honestly, could you
> have done a better, more professional job?  And if so, why didn't you
> volunteer to assist?!?  They would have LOVED to have more help I'm sure!!
> Be glad people who are willing to do labors of love are here, and willing
to
> share...
>
> I look forward to the group pushing forward - perhaps the forum software
in
> use will have to ability to support email posts, but then again, that's
when
> the spam messages start hitting! 
>
> Clif - thanks for the work over the ages - This email forum has been one
of
> my 'must do' areas - just to stay abreast of where people are taking the
> software - even places IBM and others probably never imagined - the
> resources have been incredible...
>
> David W.
>
> 
> If this statement is true it sounds like someone wasn't listening or
asking
> the users if they were even interested in this forum idea.  It seems to
have
> been done without the input of the very people it is supposed to serve.
>
> For the record, I have unlimited internet access both at work and at home
> but I think the forum idea sucks.  I want my list info via email so I can
> filter it and read it offline at a time that is convenient for me and my
> employer.  I have subscribed to U2UG but I don't expect to spend much time
> there.
>
> Ron White
> 
>
> -- 
> u2-users mailing list
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>
>
>


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Re: The lists are closing

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 5:18:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> Listen, Will "the blind, deaf and possibly dumb" Johnson
> 
> Are you hearing nothing?

Please don't start insulting me you ignorant fat slob.
Will 
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Re: The lists are closing

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 5:08:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> All that subscribing to a forum will do for you is that
> you'll get an
> email telling you that someone has replied to something on
> the forum.

Dennis that's not how its setup.
You do get the full posting in your email.
Will
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Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 12:35:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> You are partly correct when you say UV treats all data as strings. However,
> if the UV programmer is careful he/she can get it to do maths processing.
> Variables within UVBasic are string unless the result of an expression is
> numeric whereby it becomes numeric. 
> 
> UV stores numeric data such as dates, time and numbers as a 
> string value with no decimal point etc. quite deliberately.

Trevor partly right.  However the MvBASIC statement "A = 1" makes the variable A into 
a numeric typed datum.  I'm not sure you could say this is "the result of an 
expression" being mathematical, after all Store is both a string and a numeric 
command.  The system converts the loading of a purely numeric argument into a LOADN or 
STOREN type command on some MV systems, which the loading of a string is a LOAD or 
LOADS or STORES or something similar to that.
   Of course the programmer just says A = 1 or A = "DOG" and doesn't have to worry 
about how the argument is typed in the run engine.
"Run Engine" Will
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Re: [ADMIN] Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 12:22:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> Clif,
> 
> Sorry... I kept this discussion to the best of my Professionalism,
> until a few folks here Provoked with some serious name calling.
> 
> Its appears bad enough... 
> some folks here cannot discuss stuff in a constructive 
> argument.
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe Eugene

Joe that is untrue, you started the greased ball by launching an atomic bomb without 
really understanding what you are talking about.  As many people pointed out here, 
your attacks are without substance.  You make statements that are untrue because you 
are ignorant and spout off about how horrible something is which does not even exist.  
When you are called on it, you change the subject.
   Next?
Will "It's not the Sun it's the Moon" Johnson
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Re: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[FFT2001]

In a message dated 3/30/2004 12:06:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> Our UV Developers tell me, everything in UV is treated as Strings..
> Do you think MATH Functions will Perform better in UV than a DataBase that
> supports DataTypes?

Joe this is not true
Did it ever occur to you that maybe you are misinterpreting what they are saying or 
perhaps they are not saying it right or perhaps don't know any better?

Everything in UV is NOT treated as a string.  UV has several datum types, you just 
don't see them on the surface, they are handled underneath.  I can assure you that 
math functions (provided you don't specifically request stringmath) are treated as 
numbers, numeric types, etc.  They are absolutely not treated as strings, except where 
the programmer makes specific string function calls using those variables.
Will "Stringless" Johnson
Fast Forward
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RE: On learning to swim (u2-users & U2UG)

[Larry Hiscock]

One of our divisions is a webhosting company.  One of the features we
offer to our customers is majordomo managed mailing lists.  I don't
personally have the time to moderate a mailing list, but we have server
space, bandwidth and majordomo available.  If U2UG would like to
moderate a list, I will gladly contribute server resources to the
effort.

Regards,

Larry Hiscock
Western Computer Services


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:16 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: On learning to swim (u2-users & U2UG)


To the u2-users community --

I have been on the road and have not read all of the e-mail related to
u2-users going away but did have an exchange with Clif after reading his
message.  Just so it is perfectly clear -- the U2UG did not in any way
suggest or encourage u2-users ending -- quite the opposite.  Clif had to
move the list to another server a few months ago and he asked if there
was a chance that the U2UG could take it on at that time and we all
voted him in for life, or as long as he was willing and able to continue
in his efforts with the list.

I suspect that Clif thought he might just lighten his load if he taught
us to swim by pushing us into the waters, even if we had no prior intent
to learn to swim.  In any case, Clif is on the U2UG Board for the
emerging U2UG and we have a conference call scheduled for tomorrow
(Wednesday) at which we will discuss options.  Given that we are all
grateful for the work that Clif has done, we don't want to hurt him
while we twist his arm, but we definitely do not want to lose the
u2-users community.  So, we will take the input from the list (so feel
free to keep writing on the subject and give us any advice you can) and
put our heads together tomorrow and let you know shortly thereafter how
we think we can address the requirement from Clif that he be able to end
his much appreciated run as the moderator and host for the list.

I'll plan to be back in my office towards the end of this week and Clif
has indicated that he will not just pull the plug if we don't have a
smooth transition to whatever-comes-next for the u2 community by April
1.

Apologies for not having any transition plan, but that is the nature of
the "throw them in the water so they will learn to swim" approach that
Clif adopted (which, quite frankly, is the ONLY way anyone was going to
let him out of his work with the u2-users list, so I can understand the
strategy, but YIKES -- we will do what we can not to drown!)

Cheers.  --dawn

Dawn M. Wolthuis
Chair of the so-far-still-self-appointed emerging U2UG Board
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RE: The lists are closing

[David Wolverton]

Good point!!  I currently sit on a Volunteer Board (Treasurer no less) - and
as anyone who does this will likely attest - there is nothing like working
on a volunteer Board to make you fear for (or despise ) humanity in
general!  The number of after-the fact non-volunteers pointing out what we
*should* have done is always staggering...  

But I'm sure my turn will come for service to the U2 community...  Until
then, let me tell you what you *should* have done... 

DW 



Don't put 'volunteer' in the past tense. We will be looking for SIG
leaders soon, we will be looking for forum moderators soon, and we will be
transitioning to an elected board. There's always work for more hands in an
organization of this type. If IBM keeps growing the U2 market (and it seems
to be growing as we speak) then there will only be more need in the future,
not less.

- Charles "I Volunteered" Barouch



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RE: On learning to swim (u2-users & U2UG)

[James Canale, Jr.]

Oops - it's there - it just didn't stand out at me.  My apologies.  I still
prefer being able to easily see the address in the 'from' within Outlook,
but this is ok.

Regards,

Jim


>>While not a big issue, it would be nice to see the posters address as
well.


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Re: The lists are closing

[Results]

David,
   Don't put 'volunteer' in the past tense. We will be looking for SIG 
leaders soon, we will be looking for forum moderators soon, and we will 
be transitioning to an elected board. There's always work for more hands 
in an organization of this type. If IBM keeps growing the U2 market (and 
it seems to be growing as we speak) then there will only be more need in 
the future, not less.

   - Charles "I Volunteered" Barouch

David Wolverton wrote:

LOL - Ron - where were you while they were BEGGING for people to become
members and attend conference call meetings to decide how to set up the
user's group and forum area?  It was MONTHS ago that they asked for input,
but probably got just enough to realize they'd have to wing it...
And in reality, for a totally NON-funded, volunteer effort, all I can say is
**WOW**...  GOOD JOB!!
I look at it like this: If you had to do it yourself, honestly, could you
have done a better, more professional job?  And if so, why didn't you
volunteer to assist?!?  They would have LOVED to have more help I'm sure!!
Be glad people who are willing to do labors of love are here, and willing to
share...
I look forward to the group pushing forward - perhaps the forum software in
use will have to ability to support email posts, but then again, that's when
the spam messages start hitting! 
Clif - thanks for the work over the ages - This email forum has been one of
my 'must do' areas - just to stay abreast of where people are taking the
software - even places IBM and others probably never imagined - the
resources have been incredible...
David W. 


If this statement is true it sounds like someone wasn't listening or asking
the users if they were even interested in this forum idea.  It seems to have
been done without the input of the very people it is supposed to serve.
For the record, I have unlimited internet access both at work and at home
but I think the forum idea sucks.  I want my list info via email so I can
filter it and read it offline at a time that is convenient for me and my
employer.  I have subscribed to U2UG but I don't expect to spend much time
there.
Ron White

 

--
Sincerely,
 Charles Barouch
 www.KeyAlly.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: The lists are closing

[Dana Baron]

Wo... Lighten up, please. We're all trying to figure this out.  And its
not too late to start helping out. After tomorrow's meeting of the U2UG
board (an all-volunteer board, so far; we haven't gotten around to having
elections yet), we may be able to put forward some ideas as to where we're
going and how YOU can help.



I look at it like this: If you had to do it yourself, honestly, could you
have done a better, more professional job?  And if so, why didn't you
volunteer to assist?!?  They would have LOVED to have more help I'm sure!!
Be glad people who are willing to do labors of love are here, and willing to
share...


Dana Baron
System Manager
Smugglers' Notch Resort



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RE: On learning to swim (u2-users & U2UG)

[James Canale, Jr.]

 
> It seems that there is only one piece of the puzzle that is missing; the
ability to not only receive e-mail from
> the various forums but also to reply to that e-mail by way of e-mail (as
opposed to writing the reply from within 
> a browser).  If that one feature were implemented I believe quite a lot of
the "reluctance" that has appeared in 
> the past day or so would be obviated.

While not a big issue, it would be nice to see the posters address as well.
The "on behalf of" information is great, especially when there are certain
posters that you like to either 'read' or 'delete' regardless of the topic.

Regards,

Jim


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RE: The lists are closing

[David Wolverton]

LOL - Ron - where were you while they were BEGGING for people to become
members and attend conference call meetings to decide how to set up the
user's group and forum area?  It was MONTHS ago that they asked for input,
but probably got just enough to realize they'd have to wing it...

And in reality, for a totally NON-funded, volunteer effort, all I can say is
**WOW**...  GOOD JOB!!

I look at it like this: If you had to do it yourself, honestly, could you
have done a better, more professional job?  And if so, why didn't you
volunteer to assist?!?  They would have LOVED to have more help I'm sure!!
Be glad people who are willing to do labors of love are here, and willing to
share...

I look forward to the group pushing forward - perhaps the forum software in
use will have to ability to support email posts, but then again, that's when
the spam messages start hitting! 

Clif - thanks for the work over the ages - This email forum has been one of
my 'must do' areas - just to stay abreast of where people are taking the
software - even places IBM and others probably never imagined - the
resources have been incredible...

David W. 


If this statement is true it sounds like someone wasn't listening or asking
the users if they were even interested in this forum idea.  It seems to have
been done without the input of the very people it is supposed to serve.

For the record, I have unlimited internet access both at work and at home
but I think the forum idea sucks.  I want my list info via email so I can
filter it and read it offline at a time that is convenient for me and my
employer.  I have subscribed to U2UG but I don't expect to spend much time
there.

Ron White


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Printers on NT

[Carl Sadlier]

Hi All,
   We're upgrading our server to W2K3 and Universe to 10. We want to use a
print server instead of the Universe server. Is this possible? Has anyone
done this before?
Thanks,
Carl
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RE: The lists are closing

[Thomas Derwin]

Thanks, Dana.  Your explanation makes sense.  Seems like the issues here relate to the 
suddenness of the lists closing.  I'll really miss the free-flowing conversations.  
Then again, Clif more than deserves a vacation, and the tight deadline has focused 
this discussion wonderfully.
 
And many, many thanks, Clif, for all your hard work in making this list *the* place 
for U2 info and support for so many years.
 
Regards,
Tom

-Original Message- 
From: Dana Baron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tue 3/30/2004 11:02 AM 
To: U2 Users Discussion List 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: The lists are closing



There seems to be much confusion here. Let me take a shot at straightening
it out:





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Re: U2UG Contract

[kevin zollinger]

"Lee Bacall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: 

> Cliff,
> I would like to thank you for being a selfless and non-partisan
> moderator as well as an apparent workaholic all these years,
> supporting the needs of the Universe/Unidata user base as well as the
> incredibly diverse whimsey found within the ranks of your loosely
> coupled band of angels. 

I too am grateful for all of the many hours that Cliff has invested in his 
effort. I think that it is time for some of the rest of us to step up to 
the plate and offer to help forward the cause of U2/MV. In its existing 
format there is no easy way for any of us to do that. I think that U2UG is 
a tool that we can use to allow others to help carry the load. 

> I am truly saddened to see the transition of this forum from one of
> "folk-art" to a structured forum where the genius of those offering
> their wisdom and well thought out (or sometimes merely inspired)
> solutions, will thereafter become the intellectual properties of IBM.

I don't know what "folk-art" means, and am unsure how adding structure to a 
discussion group is a bad thing, but as has been said elsewhere IBM does 
not own, operate or control U2UG. I do know that employees within IBM are 
very excited to contribute their time and efforts to U2UG, but this is in 
no way an indication that IBM owns the group. As is stated on every page of 
the website, your IP remains your IP.


> I am saddened to see that the 60's are over and that 1984 is indeed
> upon us. 

And here I thought that a group of like minded individuals getting together 
to better communicate with (impose its will upon??) a large multinational 
corporation was a very 60's thing to do. :) Maybe I'm just too young .

 
> I for one am certainly in favor of a large, united front for all of us
> involved with a "non-normalized first firm, nested, post-relational
> database" and all of it's 19 +/- variants.

I think that U2UG can provide that. We have the advantage of *already* 
having IBM supporting the effort. It would be tragic if we left IBM sitting 
alone at the conference table because the user community couldn't reach 
agreement.

-- 
~ kevin zollinger
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: The lists are closing

[Wendy Smoak]

Dennis Bartlett wrote:
> All that subscribing to a forum will do for you is that
> you'll get an email telling you that someone has replied 
> to something on the forum.
> The email will NOT contain the posting, nor any reference
> short of the subject line to the previous post.
> In short, all communication from the U2UG site will be
> encouraging you to return to the web site to view each 
> individual thread.

This is not true.  I am subscribed to several U2UG forums and I am
receiving the entire message bodies via email.  There may be a
"notification" option as well, I didn't go looking since that's not what
I wanted.

What is not _yet_ available is the ability to reply to a posting, or to
start a new thread, via email.  Kevin is looking into it, and I have no
doubt that he'll get it figured out shortly.

-- 
Wendy Smoak
Application Systems Analyst, Sr.
ASU IA Information Resources Management 
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Re: U2UG Contract

[kevin zollinger]

"Martin Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: 


> I guess that most of us are looking to move to the U2UG site.  I
> started off down that path this morning but, being a careful sort of
> person, I read the terms and conditions.  Clause 7a worries me.  I
> have discussed this briefly with our legal advisors who said that we
> shouldn't agree to it without clarification.
> 

I've been focused on other things the last 24 hours, and haven't been 
watching the list too closely, so I have a lot of catching up to do. I've 
read all the mail in the thread, and will respond where appropriate. I 
apologize for responding to an email that is this old...


> So what is clause 7a?...


Clause 7 is part of a boiler plate TOS that is included with PostNuke. 
Nothing more, and nothing less. There have been *zero* discussions as to 
what our TOS should be other than to make sure that we indemnify U2UG from 
copywrite issues. If you are concerned about the wording of any part of the 
TOS suggest an alternative wording. As has been stated elsewhere this is an 
effort by and of your fellow U2 users; we aren't out to take your work or 
inflict any harm on you. 

> My non-legal mind looks at this and reads into it that once I have
> submitted a posting to the site, I give away all rights to everything
> I have done and all my future work that may have any connection with
> what I have posted. I'm not even certain that the connection is
> necessary! 

I am also NAL, but I don't read it the same way. IMHO the clause says that 
if you post a comment or submit a story that U2UG.org has the right to 
publish that text. Having said that, I it is important that we recognize 
that the meaning of the current text is not important. Propose an 
alternative and lets spend whatever time is important talking about that 
text instead.

~ kevin zollinger
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[george r smith]

> We're pickies, we don't need to understand XML, or whatever, so long 
> as we can do what's required of us. Yeah, we could learn XML, if 
> required.

Joe suggests we can't learn XML, lets see fellow pickies, XML is
hierarchical what do we know that could possibly help us understand that :).
 
George Smith


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RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[Joe Eugene]

Les,

Nobody is perfect... My Theory is...

We are all "Technical Craft Men". We should all be Open Minded to
Use the Best Tools to Carve our Art Well. 

Just because you are used to a Certain Brand of Technical Tool, you
shouldn't be Too Big a Loyalist to Criticize its Problems.

No More Posts from me... The above is all I have to say on this topic.

Thanks,
Joe Eugene


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Les Hewkin
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:56 AM
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> 
> Joe,
> 
> It must be hard for you being so good and perfect!!!
> 
> The rest of us just have to muddle along in our boring old pick jobs.
> 
> Oh well, time to go home and dream about all those lucky people
working on
> big boy systems.
> 
> But then again
> 
> Les "over paid, under worked and happy" Hewkin
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 30 March 2004 16:34
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> 
> 
> 
> Damn it... Don't you anything something better to do!
> 
> Moderator Stopped this Thread!
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of Dennis Bartlett
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:45 AM
> > To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
> > Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> >
> > Joe, GET A LIFE.
> >
> > We're pickies, we don't need to understand XML, or whatever,
> > so long as
> > we can do what's required of us. Yeah, we could learn XML,
> > if required.
> > I guarantee I could write a proggie to do just about
> > anything, interface
> > with anything, natively "bond" with any database... With
> > Pick-style
> > products.
> >
> > Yes, Oracle can do things fast - only it takes yonks to
> > develop, has to
> > live within limitations, costs a bomb, requires big process
> > power.
> >
> > Hell, even AS400 can do things, that's why they were built.
> >
> > It's just that mine can do ANY thing, no limitations, very
> > little
> > processing power (R83 on a single 286), costs? What costs?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On Behalf Of Joe Eugene
> > Sent: 29 March 2004 06:27
> > To: U2 Users Discussion List
> > Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> >
> >
> >
> > We have UV doing everything on the BackEnd, we also have
> > MSSQL Server to
> > Support Data Warehousing... Why 2 Databases Systems?
> > Cause UV Cant support Data Warehousing?
> > Doesn't this eventually introduce Disparate Systems?
> >
> > > U2, for example, has support for Java connectivity, XML,
> > and I believe
> >
> > > they either have or are working on Web Services support
> >
> > Its funny you say the above, UV/PICK Guys in our Team didn't
> > even
> > understand the basics of XML.. leave alone XPath, XQuery
> > etc. These
> > Technologies are NATIVELY Supported in ORACLE/DB2 Etc.
> >
> > e.g. We pull XML Reports from our Vendors Real Time. I have
> > to parse
> > through the XML and give UV/PICK Guys a FLAT TEXT File...
> > cause either
> > UV Cannot handle the storage and Retrival of XML Data Using
> > XPath/XQuery
> > Techniques.
> >
> > Yes, we use DataStage to pull data out of UV Into MSSQL
> > SERVER... For
> > what? Why cant UV handle of the DB Job?
> >
> > As for Performance...UV Does NOT Perform Well in a OLTP
> > Environment,
> > SIMPLE:
> > IF UV did Perform Well...Today's Fortune 500 would depend on
> > UV and
> > UV/PICK would have been in the TOP 3 OF DataBases.
> >
> > Joe Eugene
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of David T. Meeks
> > > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:37 AM
> > > To: U2 Users Discussion List
> > > Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> > >
> > > While one could make the argument that Pick has not
> > embraced emerging
> > > technologies as rapidly as the 'Big Three', it HAS done
> > so.
> > >
> > > U2, for example, has support for Java connectivity, XML,
> > and I believe
> >
> > > they either have or are working on Web Services support (I
> > know, for
> > example,
> > > that
> > > the DSEngine in DataStage has support for Web Services).
> > >
> > > One could argue the need or purpose of supporting certain
> > technologies,
> > > and
> > > the level of support currently within the products, but to
> > say that
> > there
> > > is
> > > "little/no" support is a bit uninformed.
> > >
> > > The U2 products ARE supported in certain "Integration"
> > software.  I
> > > wouldn't typically consider SAP/PeopleSoft "integration"
> > software.
> > > They are Enterprise
> > > Software Suites, but not geared particularly at
> > 'integration'.
> > >
> > > However, given that SAP and PeopleSoft OEM the DataStage
> > 

RE: The lists are closing

[Dana Baron]

There seems to be much confusion here. Let me take a shot at straightening
it out:

1. The U2 lists have been run by Clif Oliver for a very long time. Clif has
no direct ties to IBM or any of the companies who owned the U2 products
before hand.

2. Clif has been running the lists on his own time; a very big undertaking.
I think we are all very grateful to Clif for doing such an excellent job at
this task for so long (I know I certainly am!)

3. Clif's decision to stop running the lists is his own. It was not a
decision of U2UG or IBM - it was Clif's decision; a decision that is well
within his rights (see #2 above).

4. One reason Clif decided to stop running the lists is that U2UG is moving
toward filling the same need. Clif was looking at duplicate work coming
along and decided that this was a good time to get out (if I read Clif's
intentions correctly).

5. U2UG, which has no DIRECT ties to IBM either, is a nascent users'
organization with plans to represent the interests of the U2 community with
IBM. We're just now getting off the ground. We have our third or fourth
meeting coming up tomorrow night.

6. The U2UG web site has U2 fora as the means of communication, something
which people have been asking for for a long time. The decision to start the
fora was made when the lists were also available so it was then considered
as something in addition to, not instead of, the lists.

7. As Clif is pulling out of running the lists, the fora  become the only
game in town. But this is not the end of the world. There exists the
possibility that mail lists can continue with someone else running them.

8. The MAJOR topic of discussion at tomorrow's U2UG board meeting will be
the future of U2 communication technology. Clif is expected to be present at
the meeting and will probably be willing to share his accumulated wisdom in
this area, provided we don't provoke him too much in our ongoing discussions
of the past, present and future of communication in the U2 community.


Dana Baron
System Manager
Smugglers' Notch Resort



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RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[Les Hewkin]

Joe,

It must be hard for you being so good and perfect!!!

The rest of us just have to muddle along in our boring old pick jobs.

Oh well, time to go home and dream about all those lucky people working on big boy 
systems.

But then again

Les "over paid, under worked and happy" Hewkin

-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 30 March 2004 16:34
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing



Damn it... Don't you anything something better to do!

Moderator Stopped this Thread!

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Dennis Bartlett
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:45 AM
> To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> 
> Joe, GET A LIFE.
> 
> We're pickies, we don't need to understand XML, or whatever,
> so long as
> we can do what's required of us. Yeah, we could learn XML,
> if required.
> I guarantee I could write a proggie to do just about
> anything, interface
> with anything, natively "bond" with any database... With
> Pick-style
> products.
> 
> Yes, Oracle can do things fast - only it takes yonks to
> develop, has to
> live within limitations, costs a bomb, requires big process
> power.
> 
> Hell, even AS400 can do things, that's why they were built.
> 
> It's just that mine can do ANY thing, no limitations, very
> little
> processing power (R83 on a single 286), costs? What costs?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Joe Eugene
> Sent: 29 March 2004 06:27
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> 
> 
> 
> We have UV doing everything on the BackEnd, we also have
> MSSQL Server to
> Support Data Warehousing... Why 2 Databases Systems?
> Cause UV Cant support Data Warehousing?
> Doesn't this eventually introduce Disparate Systems?
> 
> > U2, for example, has support for Java connectivity, XML,
> and I believe
> 
> > they either have or are working on Web Services support
> 
> Its funny you say the above, UV/PICK Guys in our Team didn't
> even
> understand the basics of XML.. leave alone XPath, XQuery
> etc. These
> Technologies are NATIVELY Supported in ORACLE/DB2 Etc.
> 
> e.g. We pull XML Reports from our Vendors Real Time. I have
> to parse
> through the XML and give UV/PICK Guys a FLAT TEXT File...
> cause either
> UV Cannot handle the storage and Retrival of XML Data Using
> XPath/XQuery
> Techniques.
> 
> Yes, we use DataStage to pull data out of UV Into MSSQL
> SERVER... For
> what? Why cant UV handle of the DB Job?
> 
> As for Performance...UV Does NOT Perform Well in a OLTP
> Environment,
> SIMPLE:
> IF UV did Perform Well...Today's Fortune 500 would depend on
> UV and
> UV/PICK would have been in the TOP 3 OF DataBases.
> 
> Joe Eugene
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of David T. Meeks
> > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:37 AM
> > To: U2 Users Discussion List
> > Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> >
> > While one could make the argument that Pick has not
> embraced emerging
> > technologies as rapidly as the 'Big Three', it HAS done
> so.
> >
> > U2, for example, has support for Java connectivity, XML,
> and I believe
> 
> > they either have or are working on Web Services support (I
> know, for
> example,
> > that
> > the DSEngine in DataStage has support for Web Services).
> >
> > One could argue the need or purpose of supporting certain
> technologies,
> > and
> > the level of support currently within the products, but to
> say that
> there
> > is
> > "little/no" support is a bit uninformed.
> >
> > The U2 products ARE supported in certain "Integration"
> software.  I
> > wouldn't typically consider SAP/PeopleSoft "integration"
> software.
> > They are Enterprise
> > Software Suites, but not geared particularly at
> 'integration'.
> >
> > However, given that SAP and PeopleSoft OEM the DataStage
> product sets
> > for both of their "integration" products (SAP's BW,
> PeopleSoft's EPM,
> > JDEdwards stuff as well), and given DataStage works very
> well with
> both U2
> > products, this point is actually wrong.  People who have
> SAP or
> PeopleSoft
> > solutions CAN, very easily, integrate their U2 data
> to/from those
> > environments.
> >
> > As to 'efficiency', one can measure that in a variety of
> different
> > dimensions.  From a memory/disk
> space/footprint/administrative
> > overhead
> dimensions,
> > the
> > U2 database products are VERY efficient.
> >
> > Finally, as to being "slow", again this depends on the
> measurement
> > criteria being used.  From the perspective of concurrent
> user access
> > and the performance
> > of application style DB usage (largely input/output,
> multiple
> concurrent
> > users, etc..),
> > the U2 products stand up very well to the m

RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[Joe Eugene]

Damn it... Don't you anything something better to do!

Moderator Stopped this Thread!

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Dennis Bartlett
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:45 AM
> To: 'U2 Users Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> 
> Joe, GET A LIFE.
> 
> We're pickies, we don't need to understand XML, or whatever,
> so long as
> we can do what's required of us. Yeah, we could learn XML,
> if required.
> I guarantee I could write a proggie to do just about
> anything, interface
> with anything, natively "bond" with any database... With
> Pick-style
> products.
> 
> Yes, Oracle can do things fast - only it takes yonks to
> develop, has to
> live within limitations, costs a bomb, requires big process
> power.
> 
> Hell, even AS400 can do things, that's why they were built.
> 
> It's just that mine can do ANY thing, no limitations, very
> little
> processing power (R83 on a single 286), costs? What costs?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Joe Eugene
> Sent: 29 March 2004 06:27
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> 
> 
> 
> We have UV doing everything on the BackEnd, we also have
> MSSQL Server to
> Support Data Warehousing... Why 2 Databases Systems?
> Cause UV Cant support Data Warehousing?
> Doesn't this eventually introduce Disparate Systems?
> 
> > U2, for example, has support for Java connectivity, XML,
> and I believe
> 
> > they either have or are working on Web Services support
> 
> Its funny you say the above, UV/PICK Guys in our Team didn't
> even
> understand the basics of XML.. leave alone XPath, XQuery
> etc. These
> Technologies are NATIVELY Supported in ORACLE/DB2 Etc.
> 
> e.g. We pull XML Reports from our Vendors Real Time. I have
> to parse
> through the XML and give UV/PICK Guys a FLAT TEXT File...
> cause either
> UV Cannot handle the storage and Retrival of XML Data Using
> XPath/XQuery
> Techniques.
> 
> Yes, we use DataStage to pull data out of UV Into MSSQL
> SERVER... For
> what? Why cant UV handle of the DB Job?
> 
> As for Performance...UV Does NOT Perform Well in a OLTP
> Environment,
> SIMPLE:
> IF UV did Perform Well...Today's Fortune 500 would depend on
> UV and
> UV/PICK would have been in the TOP 3 OF DataBases.
> 
> Joe Eugene
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of David T. Meeks
> > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:37 AM
> > To: U2 Users Discussion List
> > Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
> >
> > While one could make the argument that Pick has not
> embraced emerging
> > technologies as rapidly as the 'Big Three', it HAS done
> so.
> >
> > U2, for example, has support for Java connectivity, XML,
> and I believe
> 
> > they either have or are working on Web Services support (I
> know, for
> example,
> > that
> > the DSEngine in DataStage has support for Web Services).
> >
> > One could argue the need or purpose of supporting certain
> technologies,
> > and
> > the level of support currently within the products, but to
> say that
> there
> > is
> > "little/no" support is a bit uninformed.
> >
> > The U2 products ARE supported in certain "Integration"
> software.  I
> > wouldn't typically consider SAP/PeopleSoft "integration"
> software.
> > They are Enterprise
> > Software Suites, but not geared particularly at
> 'integration'.
> >
> > However, given that SAP and PeopleSoft OEM the DataStage
> product sets
> > for both of their "integration" products (SAP's BW,
> PeopleSoft's EPM,
> > JDEdwards stuff as well), and given DataStage works very
> well with
> both U2
> > products, this point is actually wrong.  People who have
> SAP or
> PeopleSoft
> > solutions CAN, very easily, integrate their U2 data
> to/from those
> > environments.
> >
> > As to 'efficiency', one can measure that in a variety of
> different
> > dimensions.  From a memory/disk
> space/footprint/administrative
> > overhead
> dimensions,
> > the
> > U2 database products are VERY efficient.
> >
> > Finally, as to being "slow", again this depends on the
> measurement
> > criteria being used.  From the perspective of concurrent
> user access
> > and the performance
> > of application style DB usage (largely input/output,
> multiple
> concurrent
> > users, etc..),
> > the U2 products stand up very well to the mainstream guys.
> For
> support of
> > VLDB,
> > highly transactional query-based usage models, and the
> like, it does
> not.
> >
> > Trying to make the U2 products into what they are not is
> wrong.  They
> are
> > not the
> > panacea for every database requirement.  However, for
> certain
> problems,
> > especially
> > those for which it was designed (embedded database for
> application
> > development), it is very efficient.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > At 10:24 PM 3/28/2004 -0500, you wro

RE: The lists are closing

[Anthony Youngman]

I think the fora were meant to be in addition to the lists. A lot of
people apparently DO want the fora.

The problem is that a *different* lot of people seem also to want the
mailing list. And bear in mind that the lists are actually run by an
organisation that is a commercial concern, and neither IBM nor u2ug.

Cheers,
Wol 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ron White
Sent: 30 March 2004 16:14
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: The lists are closing


- Original Message - 
From: "Anthony Youngman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

[snip]

U2UG is OF the users, BY the users, and FOR the users. 

[snip]

Cheers,
Wol


If this statement is true it sounds like someone wasn't listening
or asking the users if they were even interested in this forum
idea.  It seems to have been done without the input of the very
people it is supposed to serve.

For the record, I have unlimited internet access both at work
and at home but I think the forum idea sucks.  I want my list
info via email so I can filter it and read it offline at a time that
is convenient for me and my employer.  I have subscribed to
U2UG but I don't expect to spend much time there.

Ron White




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Re: The lists are closing

[Ron White]

- Original Message - 
From: "Anthony Youngman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

[snip]

U2UG is OF the users, BY the users, and FOR the users. 

[snip]

Cheers,
Wol


If this statement is true it sounds like someone wasn't listening
or asking the users if they were even interested in this forum
idea.  It seems to have been done without the input of the very
people it is supposed to serve.

For the record, I have unlimited internet access both at work
and at home but I think the forum idea sucks.  I want my list
info via email so I can filter it and read it offline at a time that
is convenient for me and my employer.  I have subscribed to
U2UG but I don't expect to spend much time there.

Ron White




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Re: The lists are closing

[Don Verhagen]

UGH. For the last ()%#*#(^ time IBM is not sponsoring U2UG.org it is an *independent* 
non-profit user group. So IBM will not be "causing a change to accomodate" anything. 
u2ug.org doesn't have *customers*, it has *members*.

Go to the site, read, and then comment. So if *you* want to influence change, become a 
*member* and change it.




Donald Verhagen   1690 S Congress Avenue, Suite 210
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   Delray Beach, FL 33445  USA
Tandem Staffing Solutions, Inc.  Voice Phone: 561.454.3592
Senior Programmer  Fax Phone: 561.454.3640
---

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8:06:11 AM 03/30/2004 >>>
Perhaps if IBM or whomever is sponsoring the U2UG.org site is listening to
the feedback of the current members of this list that they will respond in a
'customer-oriented' kinda way. That's why it's called SOFTware. It can
change to meet the needs of its customers.

I agree with the reduction of efficiency that the new method will cause.
Hopefully IBM can cause a change to accomodate the high level of service the
oliver list provided.

my 1 cent.

- Original Message -
From: "Dennis Bartlett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'U2 Users Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 5:18 AM
Subject: RE: The lists are closing


> Listen, Will "the blind, deaf and possibly dumb" Johnson
>
> Are you hearing nothing? There are those of us who don't
> live in the
> land of the mighty dollar. We have to pay for our traffic,
> we have
> employment contracts that forbid us from internet access
> during the day,
> yet we still need access to U2 info.
>
> What do _you_ suggest we do?
>
> I've subscribed to your glorious forum, I get wee posties
> saying there
> are people talking about juicy thangs, but I cannot get to
> see these.
>
> What do _you_ suggest I do?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: 29 March 2004 09:03
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: Re: The lists are closing
>
>
> 1) We DO want to leave the archives at indexinfocus.
> 2) We DONT want to replicate the archives onto u2ug
> 3) We DONT want the lists to continue
>
> Go to the web site, and enter each forum you are interested
> in and click
> on SUBSCRIBE this will make all responses come to your email
> box just as
> they do now.  You can register, but if you dont SUBSCRIBE
> you wont be
> seeing nothing Will
>
>
>
> --
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users 

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RE: Lists are closing

[Graham, David]

Forgive me if I sound like a broken record here but it is most assuredly NOT necessary 
to (as the OP puts it) "go check the forums".  You need only subscribe to the forum 
and can then receive e-mail each time something is posted.  That e-mail contains the 
entire content of the posting.

The only time it is necessary to go to the forums is in that case where you wish to 
reply to a posting or create a new posting of your own.  Any one would hope that the 
folks on the board would see that as an area that could be changed.

Dave Graham

-Original Message-
From: Liesse, Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Lists are closing

Well, I'm sorry the lists are closing, but I can sympathize with Clif.  I'm
not a happy camper, since that means now I have one more thing to put on my
to-do list every day ("go check the forums"), but so it goes.  Clif, thanx
for the effort you've put in over the years.

Dave Liesse

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Re: Lists are closing

[Glenn Herbert]

Ditto.  I signed up for both the DataStage and U2UG forums, but I don't 
have time to keep web hopping around.   If I check once or twice a week I 
would consider that good!!  Here's hoping for a new listserver arrangement.

At 09:29 AM 03/30/2004, you wrote:
Well, I'm sorry the lists are closing, but I can sympathize with Clif.  I'm
not a happy camper, since that means now I have one more thing to put on my
to-do list every day ("go check the forums"), but so it goes.  Clif, thanx
for the effort you've put in over the years.
Dave Liesse

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Re: Lists are closing

[Liesse, Dave]

Well, I'm sorry the lists are closing, but I can sympathize with Clif.  I'm
not a happy camper, since that means now I have one more thing to put on my
to-do list every day ("go check the forums"), but so it goes.  Clif, thanx
for the effort you've put in over the years.

Dave Liesse

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RE: Question for Donald Kibbey

[Dennis Bartlett]

Ha! Will "pernickty" Johnson is at it again.

>> "Integrate" as a verb I think applies to mathematics.
>> But if I say "My software integrates well"  I think most
people would
think
>> A) you have math software ?
>> or
>> B) Your English is bad?

Damn! Sir, can't you also get a life?

Ain't this a technical group? Can't we assume enough
intelligence for
you to get the drift?

Dennis "bugged by your attitude" bartlett



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RE: Text file to PDF

[Andrea Charles]

We just downloaded a shareware product from www.pstill.com and it works well
with our uv created reports.


> -Original Message-
> From: Trevor Ockenden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:36 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Text file to PDF
> 
> 
> And now for something completely different!
> 
> Any help or suggestions regarding converting out text reports 
> in the &HOLD& file to PDF files for subsequent e-mailing.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Trevor Ockenden
> Open Systems Professionals
> M: +61 414 731 634
> E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> ---
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RE: Text file to PDF

[Haas, John]

Trevor,

We have many reports that are converted to .pdf and emailed daily without any 
intervention. We user Pcl2pdf software from Visual Software. Te product is very 
inexpensive.  All you need to remember is the -lt:2 option on the command line.

John.

-Original Message-
From: Trevor Ockenden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:36 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Text file to PDF


And now for something completely different!

Any help or suggestions regarding converting out text reports in the &HOLD& file to 
PDF files for subsequent e-mailing.

Cheers

Trevor Ockenden
Open Systems Professionals
M: +61 414 731 634
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RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[Dennis Bartlett]

Joe, GET A LIFE.

We're pickies, we don't need to understand XML, or whatever,
so long as
we can do what's required of us. Yeah, we could learn XML,
if required.
I guarantee I could write a proggie to do just about
anything, interface
with anything, natively "bond" with any database... With
Pick-style
products.

Yes, Oracle can do things fast - only it takes yonks to
develop, has to
live within limitations, costs a bomb, requires big process
power.

Hell, even AS400 can do things, that's why they were built.

It's just that mine can do ANY thing, no limitations, very
little
processing power (R83 on a single 286), costs? What costs?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Joe Eugene
Sent: 29 March 2004 06:27
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing



We have UV doing everything on the BackEnd, we also have
MSSQL Server to
Support Data Warehousing... Why 2 Databases Systems?
Cause UV Cant support Data Warehousing?
Doesn't this eventually introduce Disparate Systems?

> U2, for example, has support for Java connectivity, XML,
and I believe

> they either have or are working on Web Services support

Its funny you say the above, UV/PICK Guys in our Team didn't
even
understand the basics of XML.. leave alone XPath, XQuery
etc. These
Technologies are NATIVELY Supported in ORACLE/DB2 Etc.

e.g. We pull XML Reports from our Vendors Real Time. I have
to parse
through the XML and give UV/PICK Guys a FLAT TEXT File...
cause either
UV Cannot handle the storage and Retrival of XML Data Using
XPath/XQuery
Techniques.

Yes, we use DataStage to pull data out of UV Into MSSQL
SERVER... For
what? Why cant UV handle of the DB Job?

As for Performance...UV Does NOT Perform Well in a OLTP
Environment,
SIMPLE:
IF UV did Perform Well...Today's Fortune 500 would depend on
UV and
UV/PICK would have been in the TOP 3 OF DataBases.

Joe Eugene





> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of David T. Meeks
> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:37 AM
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
>
> While one could make the argument that Pick has not
embraced emerging
> technologies as rapidly as the 'Big Three', it HAS done
so.
>
> U2, for example, has support for Java connectivity, XML,
and I believe

> they either have or are working on Web Services support (I
know, for
example,
> that
> the DSEngine in DataStage has support for Web Services).
>
> One could argue the need or purpose of supporting certain
technologies,
> and
> the level of support currently within the products, but to
say that
there
> is
> "little/no" support is a bit uninformed.
>
> The U2 products ARE supported in certain "Integration"
software.  I
> wouldn't typically consider SAP/PeopleSoft "integration"
software.
> They are Enterprise
> Software Suites, but not geared particularly at
'integration'.
>
> However, given that SAP and PeopleSoft OEM the DataStage
product sets
> for both of their "integration" products (SAP's BW,
PeopleSoft's EPM,
> JDEdwards stuff as well), and given DataStage works very
well with
both U2
> products, this point is actually wrong.  People who have
SAP or
PeopleSoft
> solutions CAN, very easily, integrate their U2 data
to/from those
> environments.
>
> As to 'efficiency', one can measure that in a variety of
different
> dimensions.  From a memory/disk
space/footprint/administrative
> overhead
dimensions,
> the
> U2 database products are VERY efficient.
>
> Finally, as to being "slow", again this depends on the
measurement
> criteria being used.  From the perspective of concurrent
user access
> and the performance
> of application style DB usage (largely input/output,
multiple
concurrent
> users, etc..),
> the U2 products stand up very well to the mainstream guys.
For
support of
> VLDB,
> highly transactional query-based usage models, and the
like, it does
not.
>
> Trying to make the U2 products into what they are not is
wrong.  They
are
> not the
> panacea for every database requirement.  However, for
certain
problems,
> especially
> those for which it was designed (embedded database for
application
> development), it is very efficient.
>
> Dave
>
> At 10:24 PM 3/28/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >PICK is LEGACY Technology and does NOT Support alot of
advanced level

> >computing we have today. I belive PICK is Similiar to
Legacy
DB2
> >that used ISAM type of DataBases Access. Even IBM has
moved DB2 (Now
UDB)
> >to a completly relational architecture.
> >
> >I belive some of the below are good reasons to Migrate to
MainStream
> >(Top 3 - DB2/Oracle/MSSQL etc) Databases.
> >
> >1. UV has Little/NO support for Emerging
Technologies(XML/XQuery/XSLT/WML
> etc)
> >2. UV is Not supported in Most Integration Enterprise
Software
> >(SAP/PeopleSoft)
> >3. UV is Not efficient compared to highly evolved
databases(DB2/Oracle)
> >4. UV Folks seem to use PICK, which i

RE: Text file to PDF

[Lee Messenger]

Trevor,

We have used a utility called 'txt2pdf' since 1999 and it has worked and
performed very well.  It integrates well and is quite reasonably priced.
Look for it at www.sanface.com

(By the way, we receive no gratuities/royalties for this suggestion.)

Lee J Messenger
Sr VP Operations
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

DLT Transportation Services, Inc.
Phone :(816) 242-4505
Fax   :(816) 483-7222


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Trevor Ockenden
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:36 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Text file to PDF


And now for something completely different!

Any help or suggestions regarding converting out text reports in the &HOLD&
file to PDF files for subsequent e-mailing.

Cheers

Trevor Ockenden
Open Systems Professionals
M: +61 414 731 634
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: The lists are closing

[Anthony Youngman]

Except that IBM has precious little to do with U2UG.

Okay, they want to help us, but there's that little matter of "being
beholden to your sponsor", which we are not and we most definitely do
not want to become.

U2UG is OF the users, BY the users, and FOR the users. It has nothing to
do with IBM apart from the fact that we see it as our mutual
self-interest to work together.

Cheers,
Wol

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Mark Johnson
Sent: 30 March 2004 14:06
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: The lists are closing

Perhaps if IBM or whomever is sponsoring the U2UG.org site is listening
to
the feedback of the current members of this list that they will respond
in a
'customer-oriented' kinda way. That's why it's called SOFTware. It can
change to meet the needs of its customers.

I agree with the reduction of efficiency that the new method will cause.
Hopefully IBM can cause a change to accomodate the high level of service
the
oliver list provided.

my 1 cent.


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Re: The lists are closing

[Mark Johnson]

Perhaps if IBM or whomever is sponsoring the U2UG.org site is listening to
the feedback of the current members of this list that they will respond in a
'customer-oriented' kinda way. That's why it's called SOFTware. It can
change to meet the needs of its customers.

I agree with the reduction of efficiency that the new method will cause.
Hopefully IBM can cause a change to accomodate the high level of service the
oliver list provided.

my 1 cent.

- Original Message -
From: "Dennis Bartlett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'U2 Users Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 5:18 AM
Subject: RE: The lists are closing


> Listen, Will "the blind, deaf and possibly dumb" Johnson
>
> Are you hearing nothing? There are those of us who don't
> live in the
> land of the mighty dollar. We have to pay for our traffic,
> we have
> employment contracts that forbid us from internet access
> during the day,
> yet we still need access to U2 info.
>
> What do _you_ suggest we do?
>
> I've subscribed to your glorious forum, I get wee posties
> saying there
> are people talking about juicy thangs, but I cannot get to
> see these.
>
> What do _you_ suggest I do?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 29 March 2004 09:03
> To: U2 Users Discussion List
> Subject: Re: The lists are closing
>
>
> 1) We DO want to leave the archives at indexinfocus.
> 2) We DONT want to replicate the archives onto u2ug
> 3) We DONT want the lists to continue
>
> Go to the web site, and enter each forum you are interested
> in and click
> on SUBSCRIBE this will make all responses come to your email
> box just as
> they do now.  You can register, but if you dont SUBSCRIBE
> you wont be
> seeing nothing Will
>
>
>
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RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing

[Keith Upton]

Interesting...
 
Have just come back from holiday and have not had the time to read all
these messages but have been drawn to this one!  We have a HP superdome,
running Uv 9.6 to our 700 branches and offices from our central head
office.  All development is carried out in house.  All of the company
business systems are written in databasic and all 8000 online users seem
to be getting their work done!  Not sure what you mean by corporate?
 
Keith
 
-Original Message-
From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 30 March 2004 03:30
To: U2 Users Discussion List
Subject: RE: Modern Universe - was: The lists are closing
 
 
Our UV Developers here have over 25 years of Experience doing the stuff
the do... I personally am not interested in learning the details of UV
since nobody really uses this kinda stuff at Corporate Level.
 
I am simply surprised why UV is still used by a few Loyal Folk...
when people with 25 years of experience simply cannot make it perform
well.
 
 
Joe
 


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