[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
With all of the traffic on the above topic caused by a simple concept that was misunderstood I thought the following quote seemed appropriate. Tom T Awakening reveals that there is no personal self, and that everything is myself. It appears to be a paradox. We find we are nothing and absolutely everything simultaneously. When we see this, we realize there is nothing more happening other than love meeting itself -- or we could say you are meeting yourself, or the Truth is meeting itself, or God is meeting itself. Love meets itself each moment, even if it's a rotten moment. This will never happen through the egoic state of consciousness, filtered through the mind. But from the innocence, love is simply meeting itself. If you love me, it meets that. If you hate me, fine, it meets that, too. And it loves meeting that. I am talking about the One meeting itself, realizing itself, experiencing itself. ~Adyashanti Emptiness Dancing Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
I would recommend you get a copy of Practical Astronomy with your Pocket Calculator which you can get used real cheap. One of the important concepts to grok in celestial mechanics is *frames of reference*. For example, there are horizon coordinates, equatorial coordinates, ecliptic coordinates, Galactic coordinates, etc. All are *different* frames of reference. While precession will tell you how the satellites appear and change in regards to the background of fixed stars, it's really a different frame of reference than when your talking about where the sun is in the sky related to earths horizon. In that regard the important thing is the earths orbit around the sun, which is an ellipse, not a circle. Therefore the important thing is it's eccentricity and it's eccentric anomalies. These are how you'll really calculate the suns positions, rise/set times, etc. For example, you could learn how to calculate the actual position of the sun, sunrises and sunsets, etc. and it would then become clear that these orbital dynamics are what will determine the position of the sun from the reference point of the earths horizon. Yes the background of the stars does change over time, but only when you include them in your frame of reference. On Jan 30, 2006, at 11:52 PM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It will be for quite some time. It won't be in 13000 years. How's 8000 years? Is that enough proof? Link to here and change maximum year to and yearly increment to 100 and you will find that the vernal equinox in 9900 will be on March 21st. http://aom.giss.nasa.gov/srvernal.html Um, not really. My reading of the very first line of the site is that March 21 as vernal equinox is a fixed input, a core assumption of the model. Thats fine for 100-200 year spans, which is what I suspect the model is used for. Its not fine for 13000 years out. For the six Atmosphere-Ocean Model simulations (C089, C090, C091, C092, C093, C094) used by this current web site, all years have exactly 365 days and vernal equinox always occurs on March 21, hour 0. You are confusing precession with nutation I have been an astronomy buff for 38 years and am not confused easily. I leave it to those who know little about the subject to be confused. Ok fine. So asking a second time, as a learned bright guy with 38 year experience in astronomy, how exactly do you define precession of the equinox? I define it as follows: Precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. Vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. What parts of my definition do you disagree with? --- doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I will bet you a quart of soma that in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September. Lets meet then and see. No. The sun moves from its lowest point in the sky relative to the earth to its highest point in the sky relative to the earth in six months, from the winter solstice day to the summer solstice day. Half-way through the six months, the sun crosses the mid-point (celestial equator) on its journey northward and that crossing of the mid-point is what the vernal equinox is. The vernal equinox will always be in March in the northern hemisphere and in September in the southern hemisphere. It will be for quite some time. It won't be in 13000 years. That won't change because of the earth's minor wobbling. The 26000 year cycle of the precession of equinox can hardly be termed minor wobbling. You are confusing precession with nutation. How exactly do you define precession of the equinox? I define it as follows: Precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. Vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~ - To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Just take it as a given that while the constellation the sun is in on the vernal equinox changes due to the precession of the equinoxes, the date of the vernal equinox itself does not change-- So Judy you appear to be saying that due to precession when the sun is in, let say virgo, at vernal equinox in 13000 years, its going to March. Sorry, I can't parse this sentence. (If you meant to write going to BE March, yes, the vernal equinox is always in March.) See Vaj's post about frames of reference. Somehow you've managed to confuse at least two different ones. As I suggested earlier, the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac is an entirely different frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox. In the latter frame of reference, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox (it'll enter Aquarius in 2013). However, in the former frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. The *words* are the same (The sun is in X constellation at the vernal equinox), but because the frames of reference are entirely different, what X is in each case is also entirely different. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would recommend you get a copy of Practical Astronomy with your Pocket Calculator which you can get used real cheap. One of the important concepts to grok in celestial mechanics is *frames of reference*. For example, there are horizon coordinates, equatorial coordinates, ecliptic coordinates, Galactic coordinates, etc. All are *different* frames of reference. While precession will tell you how the satellites appear and change in regards to the background of fixed stars, it's really a different frame of reference than when your talking about where the sun is in the sky related to earths horizon. In that regard the important thing is the earths orbit around the sun, which is an ellipse, not a circle. Therefore the important thing is it's eccentricity and it's eccentric anomalies. These are how you'll really calculate the suns positions, rIise/set times, etc. For example, you could learn how to calculate the actual position of the sun, sunrises and sunsets, etc. and it would then become clear that these orbital dynamics are what will determine the position of the sun from the reference point of the earths horizon. Yes the background of the stars does change over time, but only when you include them in your frame of reference. Thanks. I will explore that. Indeed I may be missing something. Yet no one has found any factual or logic flaws in the 8 points I listed, or explained the cites I provided that report the slow retreat of the date of the vernal equinox -- and the long-term weather cycles caused by precession. To date eveeryone says the conclusion is wrong because its wrong. No coherent explanation as to why, countering the evidence has been presented. I have found in jyotish circles, where long time practicioners often have some strong understanding of celeestial mechanics, still get it wrong when confronted with very long range phenomenon. What works, and assumptions of what is reasonable over a 100 year span often don't work or are not valid over a 20,000 year span. While this is not a proof of my conclusion, it is a caution to those seeped in good astronomical knowledge in the 100 year frame. To the critics, if it is so clear my conclusion is so wrong, simply point out the error in my 8-points. And provide a convincing explanation for the trend towards an earlier VE, as well as the precesson-caused the long term weather cycles. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The vernal equinox is in September in 13000 years. Its not that complex. If you are struggling with the September vernal equinox, I speculate that you have not groked what precession of the equinox means. If you have a cogent argument as to why you believe it is not, please post. (Just saying it is eternally in March is not a cogent argument. :) ) No, but it has the advantage of being a fact. Just take it as a given that while the constellation the sun is in on the vernal equinox changes due to the precession of the equinoxes, the date of the vernal equinox itself does not change--it's always around March 20--and then work backward, and you yourself will be able to discover whatever it is that isn't quite right in your mental model. Not sure if you're right or not, but the Earth doesn't circlethe sun in exactly 365 days so there is a slight change for the equinox over time due to that. I *believe* that our calander compensates for this change, but I'm not positive. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Just take it as a given that while the constellation the sun is in on the vernal equinox changes due to the precession of the equinoxes, the date of the vernal equinox itself does not change-- So Judy you appear to be saying that due to precession when the sun is in, let say virgo, at vernal equinox in 13000 years, its going to March. Sorry, I can't parse this sentence. (If you meant to write going to BE March, yes, the vernal equinox is always in March.) Yes, BE should have been included. See Vaj's post about frames of reference. Somehow you've managed to confuse at least two different ones. Perhaps. As I suggested earlier, the day-to-day position the sun in the Zodiac is an entirely different frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox. And your reasoning for why that is so is not clear. In the latter frame of reference, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox (it'll enter Aquarius in 2013). Actually I think its 2100. I know a lot of cites say 2013 the math says 2110. VE entered pisces in 60 BCE, the precession for a distance of a constellation is 2170 years. However, in the former frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. I think you are confusing sideral and tropical frames of reference. In sideral frame (the one used in jyotish) this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox and (again) this year the sun will be Pisces at the vernal equinox. In tropical frame this year the sun will be in Aries at the time of the vernal equinox and (again) this year the sun will be Aries at the vernal equinox. (Sorry for repetion but I was modeling your format.) former frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. The *words* are the same (The sun is in X constellation at the vernal equinox), but because the frames of reference are entirely different, what X is in each case is also entirely different. I fail to see the distinction. I run a jyotish program, with a visual transit feature a lot. In current time freame, when the sun is in pisces at the VE it is march. When the sun is in Virgo it is september. The sun is not in two different constallations at the same time. It is in two only superficially. Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dare I mention leap years, leap centuries and leap seconds? The issue is whether the vernal equinox will occur in September 13,000 years from now (or whether it *was* in September 13,000 years ago). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip If you have a cogent argument as to why you believe it is not, please post. (Just saying it is eternally in March is not a cogent argument. :) ) No, but it has the advantage of being a fact. Just take it as a given that while the constellation the sun is in on the vernal equinox changes due to the precession of the equinoxes, the date of the vernal equinox itself does not change-- I am sorry judy. That is just not true. As the sun moves from the beginning of one constallation to another, its a new month. Go through 6 constallations in 13000 years and the vernal equinox has moved 6 months. it's always around March 20--and then work backward, and you yourself will be able to discover whatever it is that isn't quite right in your mental model. Simple read the 8 points in my prior post you will be able to discover whatever it is that isn't quite right in your mental model. 1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. 2) precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. 3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sun will always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus the precession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east or the path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.) 4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years. In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Aires moving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the age of aquarius). 5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full circle around the constellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position in each constallation. 6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun (due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its eleptic path around the sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winter the hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days are shorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours. 7) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels to its opposite constallation every 13000 years. In 13000 years, the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will be in Virgo, 180 degrees from its present position in Pisces. 8) When the sun is in virgo, around September, the tilt of the earth relative to its path around the sun gives fall weather for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather in the southern hemisphere. 9) Thus, in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September, fall weather will prevail for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather will be in the southern hemisphere. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
On Jan 31, 2006, at 10:07 AM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote:Thanks. I will explore that. Indeed I may be missing something. Yet no one has found any factual or logic flaws in the 8 points I listed, or explained the cites I provided that report the slow retreat of the date of the vernal equinox -- and the long-term weather cycles caused by precession. To date eveeryone says the conclusion is wrong because "its wrong". No coherent explanation as to why, countering the evidence has been presented.Well, it was jumping to another set of questions from the one being discussed. We can only answer so many questions at a time, but here goes:1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths areequal and when the sun rises at true east.The vernal equinox is the time closest to the equinocial point (where earth cross the celestial equator). This actually contains a number of fallacies, namely the equal day and night myth. Different things occur at different latitudes.Much of this can be explained in a few moments with a globe and a light bulb, it's much more difficult to explain in words.Also you need to understand that the sun is a lousy timekeeper, thus astronomers use the "equation of time". Some days it's more than 24 hours, other days it's less.2) "precesion of the equinox" means that the position of the sun atthe vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, "retreats" onedegree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiacof 12 constellations every 26000 years.Yeah, approximately. This is caused by the obliquity of the ecliptic. It changes over time.3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sunwill always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus theprecession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east orthe path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.)Yes, it's just that the constellation the sun is in at any moment will change over time. Eventually sun will enter aquarius at this time.4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox --travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years.In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Airesmoving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernalequinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the "age of aquarius").Yes, sidereally.5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full "circle" around theconstellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position ineach constallation.No. Different constellations have different widths. This only works if you arbitrarily place a 12 x 30 degree gripd on the sky. Then, again, keep in min. the sun does not move at a constant rate (thus the equation of time) so even that is not exact. Also consider as did Kepler, the orbits are not perfect circles.6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun(due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its "eleptic" path aroundthe sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winterthe hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days areshorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours.No. Long story.7) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox --travels to its opposite constallation every 13000 years. In 13000years, the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will be in Virgo, 180 degrees from its present position in Pisces.Approximately.8) When the sun is in virgo, around September, the tilt of the earthrelative to its path around the sun gives fall weather for thenorthern hemisphere, and spring weather in the southern hemisphere.Yeah... I have found in jyotish circles, where long time practicioners often have some strong understanding of celeestial mechanics, still get it wrong when confronted with very long range phenomenon. What works, and assumptions of what is reasonable over a 100 year span often don't work or are not valid over a 20,000 year span. While this is not a proof of my conclusion, it is a caution to those seeped in good astronomical knowledge in the 100 year frame. To the critics, if it is so clear my conclusion is so wrong, simply point out the error in my 8-points. And provide a convincing explanation for the trend towards an earlier VE, as well as the precesson-caused the long term weather cycles. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Just take it as a given that while the constellation the sun is in on the vernal equinox changes due to the precession of the equinoxes, the date of the vernal equinox itself does not change-- So Judy you appear to be saying that due to precession when the sun is in, let say virgo, at vernal equinox in 13000 years, its going to March. Sorry, I can't parse this sentence. (If you meant to write going to BE March, yes, the vernal equinox is always in March.) Yes, BE should have been included. See Vaj's post about frames of reference. Somehow you've managed to confuse at least two different ones. Perhaps. As I suggested earlier, the day-to-day position the sun in the Zodiac is an entirely different frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox. And your reasoning for why that is so is not clear. That's because I don't know where the error in your mental model is occurring. In the latter frame of reference, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox (it'll enter Aquarius in 2013). Actually I think its 2100. I know a lot of cites say 2013 the math says 2110. VE entered pisces in 60 BCE, the precession for a distance of a constellation is 2170 years. Yes, when the transition occurs is a matter of interpretation. However, in the former frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. I think you are confusing sideral and tropical frames of reference. In sideral frame (the one used in jyotish) this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox and (again) this year the sun will be Pisces at the vernal equinox. In tropical frame this year the sun will be in Aries at the time of the vernal equinox and (again) this year the sun will be Aries at the vernal equinox. (Sorry for repetion but I was modeling your format.) Not the issue here. former frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. The *words* are the same (The sun is in X constellation at the vernal equinox), but because the frames of reference are entirely different, what X is in each case is also entirely different. I fail to see the distinction. I run a jyotish program, with a visual transit feature a lot. In current time freame, when the sun is in pisces at the VE it is march. When the sun is in Virgo it is september. The sun is not in two different constallations at the same time. Not if you're using the same frame of reference, no. It is in two only superficially. Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. No, I'm just assuming Tropical. The same frame-of- reference principle holds whether it's Tropical or Sidereal. In their own context, Tropical versus Sidereal are also different frames of reference, but that's not the difference I'm talking about here. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is in two only superficially. Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. No, I'm just assuming Tropical. The same frame-of- reference principle holds whether it's Tropical Sidereal. In their own context, Tropical versus Sidereal are also different frames of reference, but that's not the difference I'm talking about here. I think it is the difference. You can't have VE occurring, tropically, both in pisces and aries this year. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See Vaj's post about frames of reference. Somehow you've managed to confuse at least two different ones. I believe Vaj is referring to observational points of reference. Indeed one has a different view from earth, the sun or the pole star. I am using a constant observational frame of reference with respect to VE and the postition of the sun. Another frame of reference is calculational. From earth you could report the distance to the sun in miles or kilometers. The number is different, the distance is the same. I believe you are using two different calculational reference points, tropical and sideral, in the same single observation of the sun at VE. This will cause confusion. To reconcile this confusion, you appear to believe the error is my using of two observational reference points. I am not. I beleive the confusion is from your use of two calculational RPs for the same observational RP. Perhaps. As I suggested earlier, the day-to-day position the sun in the Zodiac is an entirely different frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox. And your reasoning for why that is so is not clear. In the latter frame of reference, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox (it'll enter Aquarius in 2013). However, in the former frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. I think you are confusing sideral and tropical frames of reference. In sideral frame (the one used in jyotish) this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox and (again) this year the sun will be Pisces at the vernal equinox. Slight Correction. Sideral view takes precession into account. Jyotish uses an Ayanamsa -- a factor to convert tropical to sideral. (the celestial mechanics are calculated in tropical,then converted) Thus, the point of sideral is that, among other things, I beleive VE will always be when the sun is at the cusp of Aries and Pisces. It will always occur in relation to the actual stars at the cusp. This assumes the sun actually retreats a bit at VE, tropically -- due to precession. Which could be shown graphically pretty clearly, but harder in words. That assumption may be the point of difference between us. To verify, I just ran a jyotish chart for the 2006 VE which has about a 24 degree ayanasma adjustment. Sun is a few degrees into Aries -- which may be a longitude thing, and perhaps my ayanasma is off a bit. Just as it should be for a constant aries cusp in sideral view over long spans of time. On the other hand, tropical will an unadjusted date for VE. Since precession causes (the real) VE to occur slightly earlier over time, the date of VE must slowly change over time. In 200 year span its not noticable. In 2100 years or so, it will shift a month. In 13000 years it will shift 6 months. Due to a regularly updated ayansama every century or so, in sideral view VE will always be at cusp of Aries and Pisces. 1n 13000 years it will have an ayanamsa of 180 degrees. Thus converting from sideral to tropical, VE in tropical will be on cusp of Virgo. And in earth weather, tropical view, september is fall weather. The *words* are the same (The sun is in X constellation at the vernal equinox), but because the frames of reference are entirely different, what X is in each case is also entirely different. I fail to see the distinction. I run a jyotish program, with a visual transit feature a lot. In current time freame, when the sun is in pisces at the VE it is march. When the sun is in Virgo it is september. The sun is not in two different constallations at the same time. It is in two only superficially. Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 31, 2006, at 10:07 AM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: Thanks. I will explore that. Indeed I may be missing something. Yet no one has found any factual or logic flaws in the 8 points I listed, or explained the cites I provided that report the slow retreat of the date of the vernal equinox -- and the long-term weather cycles caused by precession. To date eveeryone says the conclusion is wrong because its wrong. No coherent explanation as to why, countering the evidence has been presented. Well, it was jumping to another set of questions from the one being discussed. We can only answer so many questions at a time, but here goes: 1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. The vernal equinox is the time closest to the equinocial point (where earth cross the celestial equator). This actually contains a number of fallacies, namely the equal day and night myth. Different things occur at different latitudes. Well exact equality its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. But they are near their most equal at VE, right? For example, day and night are always equal at equator (correct?). And in artic circle at Solstices its either long nights or long days. Approaching the VE days lengthen and nights shorten. At some point they are equal. And that occurs around VE. Thus around VE all lattitudes have near equal day and nights, right? Much of this can be explained in a few moments with a globe and a light bulb, it's much more difficult to explain in words. Also you need to understand that the sun is a lousy timekeeper, thus astronomers use the equation of time. Some days it's more than 24 hours, other days it's less. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 2) precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. Yeah, approximately. This is caused by the obliquity of the ecliptic. It changes over time. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sun will always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus the precession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east or the path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.) Yes, it's just that the constellation the sun is in at any moment will change over time. Eventually sun will enter aquarius at this time. In tropical right? Western astrologers are the ones tooting age of acquarius Thus, in sideral, sun at VE will always at cusp of Aries and Pisces. 4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years.n In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Aires moving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the age of aquarius). Yes, sidereally. No tropically, see above. Precession causes sun to retreat tropically I believe. 5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full circle around the constellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position in each constallation. No. Different constellations have different widths. This only works if you arbitrarily place a 12 x 30 degree gripd on the sky. Then, again, keep in min. the sun does not move at a constant rate (thus the equation of time) so even that is not exact. Also consider as did Kepler, the orbits are not perfect circles. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun (due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its eleptic path around the sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winter the hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days are shorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours. No. Long story. I would like to hear it. Meanwhile I am sure we agree that summer is warmer than winter. Which is the relevant point for my train of logic. 7) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels to its opposite constallation every 13000 years. In 13000 years, the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will be in Virgo, 180 degrees from its present position in Pisces. Approximately. Yes. Every thing here is approximate. 8) When the sun is in virgo, around September, the tilt of the earth relative to its path
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 31, 2006, at 10:07 AM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: Thanks. I will explore that. Indeed I may be missing something. Yet no one has found any factual or logic flaws in the 8 points I listed, or explained the cites I provided that report the slow retreat of the date of the vernal equinox -- and the long-term weather cycles caused by precession. To date eveeryone says the conclusion is wrong because its wrong. No coherent explanation as to why, countering the evidence has been presented. Well, it was jumping to another set of questions from the one being discussed. We can only answer so many questions at a time, but here goes: 1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. The vernal equinox is the time closest to the equinocial point (where earth cross the celestial equator). This actually contains a number of fallacies, namely the equal day and night myth. Different things occur at different latitudes. Well exact equality its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. But they are near their most equal at VE, right? For example, day and night are always equal at equator (correct?). And in artic circle at Solstices its either long nights or long days. Approaching the VE days lengthen and nights shorten. At some point they are equal. And that occurs around VE. Thus around VE all lattitudes have near equal day and nights, right? Much of this can be explained in a few moments with a globe and a light bulb, it's much more difficult to explain in words. Also you need to understand that the sun is a lousy timekeeper, thus astronomers use the equation of time. Some days it's more than 24 hours, other days it's less. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 2) precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. Yeah, approximately. This is caused by the obliquity of the ecliptic. It changes over time. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sun will always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus the precession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east or the path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.) Yes, it's just that the constellation the sun is in at any moment will change over time. Eventually sun will enter aquarius at this time. In tropical right? Western astrologers are the ones tooting age of acquarius Thus, in sideral, sun at VE will always at cusp of Aries and Pisces. 4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years.n In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Aires moving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the age of aquarius). Yes, sidereally. No tropically, see above. Precession causes sun to retreat tropically I believe. 5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full circle around the constellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position in each constallation. No. Different constellations have different widths. This only works if you arbitrarily place a 12 x 30 degree gripd on the sky. Then, again, keep in min. the sun does not move at a constant rate (thus the equation of time) so even that is not exact. Also consider as did Kepler, the orbits are not perfect circles. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun (due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its eleptic path around the sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winter the hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days are shorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours. No. Long story. I would like to hear it. Meanwhile I am sure we agree that summer is warmer than winter. Which is the relevant point for my train of logic. 7) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels to its opposite constallation every 13000 years. In 13000 years, the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will be in Virgo, 180 degrees from its present position in Pisces. Approximately. Yes. Every thing here is approximate. 8) When the sun is in virgo, around September, the tilt of the earth relative to its path
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dare I mention leap years, leap centuries and leap seconds? The issue is whether the vernal equinox will occur in September 13,000 years from now (or whether it *was* in September 13,000 years ago). The angle of the earth's rotation isn't all that significant as far as ican tell. Far more significant is the factthat there is a 1/4 day difference between our 365 day calander and the ~365.25 day year. That's accounted for by how our callendar works. The other stuff isn't worth worrying about beyond a day or maybe a week of variation, max,over many thousands of years. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See Vaj's post about frames of reference. Somehow you've managed to confuse at least two different ones. I believe Vaj is referring to observational points of reference. Indeed one has a different view from earth, the sun or the pole star. I am using a constant observational frame of reference with respect to VE and the postition of the sun. Another frame of reference is calculational. From earth you could report the distance to the sun in miles or kilometers. The number is different, the distance is the same. I believe you are using two different calculational reference points, tropical and sideral, in the same single observation of the sun at VE. Nope. Remember, what you're suggesting is that the vernal equinox will eventually occur in *September*. This will cause confusion. To reconcile this confusion, you appear to believe the error is my using of two observational reference points. I am not. I beleive the confusion is from your use of two calculational RPs for the same observational RP. Perhaps. As I suggested earlier, the day-to-day position the sun in the Zodiac is an entirely different frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox. And your reasoning for why that is so is not clear. In the latter frame of reference, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox (it'll enter Aquarius in 2013). However, in the former frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. I think you are confusing sideral and tropical frames of reference. In sideral frame (the one used in jyotish) this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox and (again) this year the sun will be Pisces at the vernal equinox. Slight Correction. Sideral view takes precession into account. Jyotish uses an Ayanamsa -- a factor to convert tropical to sideral. (the celestial mechanics are calculated in tropical,then converted) Thus, the point of sideral is that, among other things, I beleive VE will always be when the sun is at the cusp of Aries and Pisces. It will always occur in relation to the actual stars at the cusp. This assumes the sun actually retreats a bit at VE, tropically -- due to precession. Which could be shown graphically pretty clearly, but harder in words. That assumption may be the point of difference between us. To verify, I just ran a jyotish chart for the 2006 VE which has about a 24 degree ayanasma adjustment. Sun is a few degrees into Aries -- which may be a longitude thing, and perhaps my ayanasma is off a bit. Just as it should be for a constant aries cusp in sideral view over long spans of time. On the other hand, tropical will an unadjusted date for VE. Since precession causes (the real) VE to occur slightly earlier over time, the date of VE must slowly change over time. In 200 year span its not noticable. In 2100 years or so, it will shift a month. In 13000 years it will shift 6 months. Due to a regularly updated ayansama every century or so, in sideral view VE will always be at cusp of Aries and Pisces. 1n 13000 years it will have an ayanamsa of 180 degrees. Thus converting from sideral to tropical, VE in tropical will be on cusp of Virgo. And in earth weather, tropical view, september is fall weather. The *words* are the same (The sun is in X constellation at the vernal equinox), but because the frames of reference are entirely different, what X is in each case is also entirely different. I fail to see the distinction. I run a jyotish program, with a visual transit feature a lot. In current time freame, when the sun is in pisces at the VE it is march. When the sun is in Virgo it is september. The sun is not in two different constallations at the same time. It is in two only superficially. Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is in two only superficially. Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. No, I'm just assuming Tropical. The same frame-of- reference principle holds whether it's Tropical Sidereal. In their own context, Tropical versus Sidereal are also different frames of reference, but that's not the difference I'm talking about here. I think it is the difference. Nope, not. You can't have VE occurring, tropically, both in pisces and aries this year. Never said that. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dare I mention leap years, leap centuries and leap seconds? The issue is whether the vernal equinox will occur in September 13,000 years from now (or whether it *was* in September 13,000 years ago). The angle of the earth's rotation isn't all that significant as far as ican tell. Fine. But that is not what the discussion is focussed on. The quesion is whether the date of the sun at vernal equinox retreats slowly to earlier dates (tropically). All the western scientists who observed and developed models for precession were using a tropical system. To them, just discovering precession, a sideral system could not be their reference point. They all saw that the date of the sun at VE retreated slowly TROPICALLY. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
On Jan 31, 2006, at 12:22 PM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: Well, it was jumping to another set of questions from the one being discussed. We can only answer so many questions at a time, but here goes: 1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. The vernal equinox is the time closest to the equinocial point (where earth cross the celestial equator). This actually contains a number of fallacies, namely the equal day and night myth. Different things occur at different latitudes. Well exact equality its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. But they are near their most equal at VE, right?IIRC it is usually within a couple of days at the equator and differing dates further from the equinox as you move away from the equator. For example, day and night are always equal at equator (correct?).No, just close to the equinox. Keep in mind the equinox is a defined from the center of the sun and that when the sun rises, this is defined by the rising edge of the orb. However on the actual day of the equinox the point which describes the center of the sun above the horizon for 12 hours.This is an important point, as the sun actually does take up a certain angle--actually one of my ancestors used this fact to first calculate the period of Venus (no pun intended). And in artic circle at Solstices its either long nights or long days. Approaching the VE days lengthen and nights shorten. At some point they are equal. And that occurs around VE. Thus around VE all lattitudes have near equal day and nights, right?Nearly. Much of this can be explained in a few moments with a globe and a light bulb, it's much more difficult to explain in words. Also you need to understand that the sun is a lousy timekeeper, thus astronomers use the "equation of time". Some days it's more than 24 hours, other days it's less. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 2) "precesion of the equinox" means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, "retreats" one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. Yeah, approximately. This is caused by the obliquity of the ecliptic. It changes over time. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sun will always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus the precession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east or the path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.) Yes, it's just that the constellation the sun is in at any moment will change over time. Eventually sun will enter aquarius at this time. In tropical right? Western astrologers are the ones tooting "age of acquarius"In Jyotish, IIRC, it will occur around 2400 CE. Thus, in sideral, sun at VE will always at cusp of Aries and Pisces. 4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years.n In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Aires moving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the "age of aquarius"). Yes, sidereally. No tropically, see above. Precession causes sun to retreat tropically I believe. I'm not familiar enough with tropical system to say. 5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full "circle" around the constellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position in each constallation. No. Different constellations have different widths. This only works if you arbitrarily place a 12 x 30 degree gripd on the sky. Then, again, keep in min. the sun does not move at a constant rate (thus the equation of time) so even that is not exact. Also consider as did Kepler, the orbits are not perfect circles. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun (due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its "eleptic" path around the sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winter the hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days are shorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours. No. Long story. I would like to hear it. Meanwhile I am sure we agree that summer is warmer than winter. Which is the relevant point for my train of logic. 7) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels to its opposite constallation every 13000 years. In 13000 years, the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will be in Virgo, 180 degrees from its present position in Pisces. Approximately.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe you are using two different calculational reference points, tropical and sideral, in the same single observation of the sun at VE. Nope. Remember, what you're suggesting is that the vernal equinox will eventually occur in *September*. sorry I see no logical connection bewteen my statement and yours. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dare I mention leap years, leap centuries and leap seconds? The issue is whether the vernal equinox will occur in September 13,000 years from now (or whether it *was* in September 13,000 years ago). The angle of the earth's rotation isn't all that significant as far as ican tell. Far more significant is the factthat there is a 1/4 day difference between our 365 day calander and the ~365.25 day year. That's accounted for by how our callendar works. The other stuff isn't worth worrying about beyond a day or maybe a week of variation, max,over many thousands of years. Right. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 31, 2006, at 10:07 AM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: Thanks. I will explore that. Indeed I may be missing something. Yet no one has found any factual or logic flaws in the 8 points I listed, or explained the cites I provided that report the slow retreat of the date of the vernal equinox -- and the long-term weather cycles caused by precession. To date eveeryone says the conclusion is wrong because its wrong. No coherent explanation as to why, countering the evidence has been presented. Well, it was jumping to another set of questions from the one being discussed. We can only answer so many questions at a time, but here goes: 1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. The vernal equinox is the time closest to the equinocial point (where earth cross the celestial equator). This actually contains a number of fallacies, namely the equal day and night myth. Different things occur at different latitudes. Well exact equality its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. But they are near their most equal at VE, right? For example, day and night are always equal at equator (correct?). And in artic circle at Solstices its either long nights or long days. Approaching the VE days lengthen and nights shorten. At some point they are equal. And that occurs around VE. Thus around VE all lattitudes have near equal day and nights, right? Much of this can be explained in a few moments with a globe and a light bulb, it's much more difficult to explain in words. Also you need to understand that the sun is a lousy timekeeper, thus astronomers use the equation of time. Some days it's more than 24 hours, other days it's less. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 2) precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. Yeah, approximately. This is caused by the obliquity of the ecliptic. It changes over time. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sun will always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus the precession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east or the path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.) Yes, it's just that the constellation the sun is in at any moment will change over time. Eventually sun will enter aquarius at this time. In tropical right? Western astrologers are the ones tooting age of acquarius Thus, in sideral, sun at VE will always at cusp of Aries and Pisces. But you're saying it will eventually be in *Virgo*. 4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years.n In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Aires moving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the age of aquarius). Yes, sidereally. No tropically, see above. Precession causes sun to retreat tropically I believe. 5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full circle around the constellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position in each constallation. No. Different constellations have different widths. This only works if you arbitrarily place a 12 x 30 degree gripd on the sky. Then, again, keep in min. the sun does not move at a constant rate (thus the equation of time) so even that is not exact. Also consider as did Kepler, the orbits are not perfect circles. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun (due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its eleptic path around the sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winter the hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days are shorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours. No. Long story. I would like to hear it. Meanwhile I am sure we agree that summer is warmer than winter. Which is the relevant point for my train of logic. http://www.astronomy.org/programs/seasons/ It isn't the distance, it's the angle at which the sun's rays strike the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 31, 2006, at 12:22 PM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: Well, it was jumping to another set of questions from the one being discussed. We can only answer so many questions at a time, but here goes: 1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. The vernal equinox is the time closest to the equinocial point (where earth cross the celestial equator). This actually contains a number of fallacies, namely the equal day and night myth. Different things occur at different latitudes. Well exact equality its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. But they are near their most equal at VE, right? IIRC it is usually within a couple of days at the equator and differing dates further from the equinox as you move away from the equator. For example, day and night are always equal at equator (correct?). No, just close to the equinox. Keep in mind the equinox is a defined from the center of the sun and that when the sun rises, this is defined by the rising edge of the orb. However on the actual day of the equinox the point which describes the center of the sun above the horizon for 12 hours. This is an important point, as the sun actually does take up a certain angle--actually one of my ancestors used this fact to first calculate the period of Venus (no pun intended). And in artic circle at Solstices its either long nights or long days. Approaching the VE days lengthen and nights shorten. At some point they are equal. And that occurs around VE. Thus around VE all lattitudes have near equal day and nights, right? Nearly. Much of this can be explained in a few moments with a globe and a light bulb, it's much more difficult to explain in words. Also you need to understand that the sun is a lousy timekeeper, thus astronomers use the equation of time. Some days it's more than 24 hours, other days it's less. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 2) precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. Yeah, approximately. This is caused by the obliquity of the ecliptic. It changes over time. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sun will always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus the precession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east or the path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.) Yes, it's just that the constellation the sun is in at any moment will change over time. Eventually sun will enter aquarius at this time. In tropical right? Western astrologers are the ones tooting age of acquarius In Jyotish, IIRC, it will occur around 2400 CE. Thus, in sideral, sun at VE will always at cusp of Aries and Pisces. 4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years.n In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Aires moving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the age of aquarius). Yes, sidereally. No tropically, see above. Precession causes sun to retreat tropically I believe. I'm not familiar enough with tropical system to say. 5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full circle around the constellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position in each constallation. No. Different constellations have different widths. This only works if you arbitrarily place a 12 x 30 degree gripd on the sky. Then, again, keep in min. the sun does not move at a constant rate (thus the equation of time) so even that is not exact. Also consider as did Kepler, the orbits are not perfect circles. Understood. I was trying to keep it simple. Its not a critical assumption of my consclusion. 6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun (due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its eleptic path around the sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winter the hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days are shorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours. No. Long story. I would like to hear it. Meanwhile I am sure we agree that summer is warmer than winter. Which is the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In tropical right? Western astrologers are the ones tooting age of acquarius Thus, in sideral, sun at VE will always at cusp of Aries and Pisces. But you're saying it will eventually be in *Virgo*. You are not reading carefully. I have said sun at VE in 13000 years will be in TROPICAL *Virgo* and in SIDERAL aries. With ayanamsa of 180 degrees. Sun in TROPICAL *Virgo* will be septemberish. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is in two only superficially. Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. No, I'm just assuming Tropical. The same frame-of- reference principle holds whether it's Tropical Sidereal. In their own context, Tropical versus Sidereal are also different frames of reference, but that's not the difference I'm talking about here. I think it is the difference. Nope, not. You can't have VE occurring, tropically, both in pisces and aries this year. Never said that. You said: As I suggested earlier, the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac is an entirely different frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox. In the latter frame of reference, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox (it'll enter Aquarius in 2013). However, in the former frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. Reorganizing your references you seem to be saying: In the frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox However, in the the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. How is this not saying VE is occurring, tropically both in pisces and aries this year? You appear to think tropically that the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox is different from the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. You appear to have made a distinction in language,inyour mind, that does not correspond to a distinction in the world. If, tropically, the sun is in aries in the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox the sun is also in aries, tropically in the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. Same observational RP, same calculational RP. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is in two only superficially. Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. No, I'm just assuming Tropical. The same frame-of- reference principle holds whether it's Tropical Sidereal. In their own context, Tropical versus Sidereal are also different frames of reference, but that's not the difference I'm talking about here. I think it is the difference. Nope, not. You can't have VE occurring, tropically, both in pisces and aries this year. Never said that. You said: As I suggested earlier, the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac is an entirely different frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox. In the latter frame of reference, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox (it'll enter Aquarius in 2013). However, in the former frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. Reorganizing your references you seem to be saying: In the frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox However, in the the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. How is this not saying VE is occurring, tropically both in pisces and aries this year? You appear to think tropically that the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox is different from the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. You appear to have made a distinction in language,inyour mind, that does not correspond to a distinction in the world. If, tropically, the sun is in aries in the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox the sun is also in aries, tropically in the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. Same observational RP, same calculational RP. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is in two only superficially. Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. No, I'm just assuming Tropical. The same frame-of- reference principle holds whether it's Tropical Sidereal. In their own context, Tropical versus Sidereal are also different frames of reference, but that's not the difference I'm talking about here. I think it is the difference. Nope, not. You can't have VE occurring, tropically, both in pisces and aries this year. Never said that. You said: As I suggested earlier, the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac is an entirely different frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox. In the latter frame of reference, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox (it'll enter Aquarius in 2013). However, in the former frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. I don't even know if the former frame of reference is Tropical. The thing is that the two frames of reference are different in an entirely different way than the Tropical/Sidereal frames of reference are different. Or to put it another way, Tropical/Sidereal are two different ways of measuring the same thing; but what you're measuring when you want to know where the vernal equinox occurs in 13,000 years is something else entirely. You're getting day-to-day confused with year-to-year. Reorganizing your references you seem to be saying: In the frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox However, in the the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. How is this not saying VE is occurring, tropically both in pisces and aries this year? Because they're completely different frames of reference. You appear to think tropically that the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox is different from the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. You appear to have made a distinction in language,inyour mind, that does not correspond to a distinction in the world. If, tropically, the sun is in aries in the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox the sun is also in aries, tropically in the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. Same observational RP, same calculational RP. Not...that's where your problem lies. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You appear to think tropically that the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox is different from the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. You appear to have made a distinction in language,inyour mind, that does not correspond to a distinction in the world. If, tropically, the sun is in aries in the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox the sun is also in aries, tropically in the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. Same observational RP, same calculational RP. Another way to visualize it is to think of an earth-centric view of the sun and planets rotation around the earth. Like an astrology chart. For this example I will use a southern style --rectangualar jyotish chart so we easily, verbally ID the constelations. And this imaginary chart has no ayanamsa adjustment, it is tropical. Pisces is the northwest square, aries is horizontally parallel to pisces, one square to the right, aquarius is vertically below pisces. The other constallations continue in a rectangle, Virgo is in the SE cornor, Sag is in SW cornor etc. Many put the position of the sun at VE at cusp of pisces and aries in 60 BCE. Thus, in every annual rotation of the sun, every year in that era, VE occured near that cusp. But with precession of the equinox, the position of the sun at vernal equinox goes to the left, counterclock ways, one degree every 72 years or so years, roughly equivalent to one days travel of the sun from the position of the sun at BCE 60 VE (at cusp of aries and pisces). The position of the sun at VE of 2170 (2170/72 yrs per degrees = 30 degrees ~ 30 days) which will occur at the tropical cusp of pisces and aquarius, will be 330 degrees from the position of the sun at 60B CE VE. Thus, the 2170 VE will occur about a month earlier than the 60BCE VE Continuing, in 13000 years, the sun at VE will occur in virgo, 180 degrees from sun at ve now . It will be in earth time, around september. All of this is tropical view. There are no two reference points here. Its all the same reference point. You appear to have made a distinction in language, in your mind, about two refence points that do not correspond to a distinction in the world. Draw the above chart out on paper. Mark the changing position of the sun at VE. Its not hard. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
On Jan 31, 2006, at 1:24 PM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote:If you agree to the general overall point (regardless of small variations and simplifications) in each of the above 8 points, it logically follows that you agree that in 13000 years, tropical sun is in virgo, aka around september? All celestial calcs in jyotish programs are done in tropical. Then adjusted by ayanamsa to sideral. So like it or not, you are indirectly interested in tropical. :) Ok.do you agree that in 13000 years the appropriate sideral ayanamsa is 180 degrees, and that sun at VE will be in sideral Aries? I doubt it is possible to predict that far in advance. It would just be theory. What is the question behind the question? Which means without ayanamsa, sun at VE will be in tropical Virgo (that is 180 degrees from sideral if ayamamsa is not used.). Tropical Virgo is september. I don't see the point of any of this. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. I don't even know if the former frame of reference is Tropical. Ok, you said before they were both tropical. The thing is that the two frames of reference are different in an entirely different way than the Tropical/Sidereal frames of reference are different. Or to put it another way, Tropical/Sidereal are two different ways of measuring the same thing; but what you're measuring when you want to know where the vernal equinox occurs in 13,000 years is something else entirely. OK, in your view,what is it? If you can't clearly explain it, it might be becasue your thinking is not clear on this topic. You appear to think tropically that the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox is different from the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. You appear to have made a distinction in language,inyour mind, that does not correspond to a distinction in the world. If, tropically, the sun is in aries in the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox the sun is also in aries, tropically in the day-to-dproblay position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. Same observational RP, same calculational RP. Not...that's where your problem lies here, HAHAHA. Well someones' problem lies in this point. See visual example I just posted. Its clearly one frame of reference. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 31, 2006, at 1:24 PM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: If you agree to the general overall point (regardless of small variations and simplifications) in each of the above 8 points, it logically follows that you agree that in 13000 years, tropical sun is in virgo, aka around september? All celestial calcs in jyotish programs are done in tropical. Then adjusted by ayanamsa to sideral. So like it or not, you are indirectly interested in tropical. :) Ok.do you agree that in 13000 years the appropriate sideral ayanamsa is 180 degrees, and that sun at VE will be in sideral Aries? I doubt it is possible to predict that far in advance. It would just be theory. What is the question behind the question? Which means without ayanamsa, sun at VE will be in tropical Virgo (that is 180 degrees from sideral if ayamamsa is not used.). Tropical Virgo is september. I don't see the point of any of this. The basic point is understanding what precession of the equinox means. And its impacts long run such as long run weather cycles, human migration and civilization growth/decay impacts, and how correspondence to long-run jyotish cycles may correspond correspond to the latter. All scientists appear to agree that the precession of the equinox means that the position of the sun at Vernal equinox in its eliptical annual trip around the 12 constellations receeds about one degree every 72 years. Which is roughly one days travel of the sun. Thus, slowly the date of the real VE is getting earlier and earlier as the sun gets to the new VE from the old one in less 360 degrees = less than 365.25 days. All of that is important to understand for jyotish, long run weather cycles, long run astronomy, and general competence in knowing how the world works. Sun at VE in 13000 is just an eye-catching example to people to realize that assumptions that work well in a 200 year span, don't always work well in long spans time. And makes a good story to tell at VE. You know you kids arent going to have spring break any more in 13000 years. 19 year old blondes love this stuff. haha. Barry might pick up some more one night stands if his Woody (no pun) Allen story fails. And its all a good brain tonic to visualize this stuff. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. I don't even know if the former frame of reference is Tropical. Ok, you said before they were both tropical. If you don't know if the former frame of reference is Tropical, I suggest that you are not really clear on the difference between sideral and tropical, and this is the root ofg your difficulty. And the source of your imaginery two unexplainable frames of reference that you keep citing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. I don't even know if the former frame of reference is Tropical. Ok, you said before they were both tropical. Nope, didn't. You misunderstood what I was talking about. The thing is that the two frames of reference are different in an entirely different way than the Tropical/Sidereal frames of reference are different. Or to put it another way, Tropical/Sidereal are two different ways of measuring the same thing; but what you're measuring when you want to know where the vernal equinox occurs in 13,000 years is something else entirely. OK, in your view,what is it? If you can't clearly explain it, it might be becasue your thinking is not clear on this topic. What I'm *very* clear on is that spring doesn't end up coming in September 13,000 years hence. What I'm not clear on is how to explain your muddle to you so that you can correct your model. You appear to think tropically that the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox is different from the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. You appear to have made a distinction in language,inyour mind, that does not correspond to a distinction in the world. If, tropically, the sun is in aries in the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox the sun is also in aries, tropically in the day-to-dproblay position of the sun in the Zodiac frame of reference. Same observational RP, same calculational RP. Not...that's where your problem lies here, HAHAHA. Well someones' problem lies in this point. See visual example I just posted. Its clearly one frame of reference. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. I don't even know if the former frame of reference is Tropical. Ok, you said before they were both tropical. If you don't know if the former frame of reference is Tropical, I suggest that you are not really clear on the difference between sideral and tropical No, I'm quite clear on that. It just has nothing to do with the date of the vernal equinox. , and this is the root ofg your difficulty. And the source of your imaginery two unexplainable frames of reference that you keep citing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. I don't even know if the former frame of reference is Tropical. Ok, you said before they were both tropical. Nope, didn't. You misunderstood what I was talking about. The thing is that the two frames of reference are different in an entirely different way than the Tropical/Sidereal frames of reference are different. Or to put it another way, Tropical/Sidereal are two different ways of measuring the same thing; but what you're measuring when you want to know where the vernal equinox occurs in 13,000 years is something else entirely. OK, in your view,what is it? If you can't clearly explain it, it might be becasue your thinking is not clear on this topic. What I'm *very* clear on is that spring doesn't end up coming in September 13,000 years hence. And you know this to be true? And how do know this to be true? You have posted a lot but never explained. Its like a priori. What I'm not clear on is how to explain your muddle My muddle? What part dont you get? Are you sure its my muddle and not your muddled understanding of what precession of the equinox, sideral and tropical really mean. You just said you don't know if the above is tropical or not. Yet if you had a clear understanding of what tropical is, you would not be muddled. to you so that you can correct your model. My visual model? You can't even figure that out? My, my. This explains a lot. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. I don't even know if the former frame of reference is Tropical. Ok, you said before they were both tropical. If you don't know if the former frame of reference is Tropical, I suggest that you are not really clear on the difference between sideral and tropical No, I'm quite clear on that. It just has nothing to do with the date of the vernal equinox. Did you just say knowing what sideral is (which you need to know the difference between sideral and tropical) has nothing to due with the date of the vernal equinox? Did you really say That? Oh judy. Sorry. You are really lost here. You are arguing things you know nothing about. If you like I will post an explanation as to why knowing what sideral is has everything to due with the date of the vernal equinox. But somehow I am guessing you dont care to learn. You want to stick to non-explainable a priori positions. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I'm *very* clear on is that spring doesn't end up coming in September 13,000 years hence. And of course you know you are misrepresnting what I said, putting your spin on it. I have said that the vernal equinox -- defined as the day on which the sun rises due east, will occur in the time of year we currently refer to as september 13000 years from now. The sun will be in the tropical constellation of virgo. And you know this to be true? And how do know this to be true? You have posted a lot but never explained. Its like a priori. What I'm not clear on is how to explain your muddle My muddle? What part dont you get? Are you sure its my muddle and not your muddled understanding of what precession of the equinox, sideral and tropical really mean. You just said you don't know if the above is tropical or not. Yet if you had a clear understanding of what tropical is, you would not be muddled. to you so that you can correct your model. My visual model? You can't even figure that out? My, my. This explains a lot. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. I don't even know if the former frame of reference is Tropical. Ok, you said before they were both tropical. Nope, didn't. You misunderstood what I was talking about. Gabby: Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. Judy: No, I'm just assuming Tropical. The same frame-of- reference principle holds whether it's Tropical or Sidereal. In their own context, Tropical versus Sidereal are also different frames of reference, but that's not the difference I'm talking about here. Ok Guess I still dont get your point. . I said you were confusing a sideral and tropical frame, you said they were both tropical, then you said you were not sure if one was tropical. Then you said I was confused. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q1795.html Will the equinoxes and solstices switch places in 13,000 years because of the precession of the Earth's rotation axis? No, there will be no swapping of the seasons and the months of the year. The precession of the equinoxes of the Earth is a motion that causes the axis of the Earth's rotation to remain FIXED at an angle of 23.5 degrees, however, it rotates along a great circle with a period of 26,000 years. The result is that the two points where the equator of the Earth intersect the ecliptic plane, the vernal and autumnal equinoxes, precess westward along the ecliptic by 360 degrees per 25,800 years or 50.26 seconds of arc per year. This is also equal to 0.125 seconds of arc per day or 0.008 seconds of time, so that each day the synchronization between sidereal and solar time slips a bit. Currently, the vernal equinox which heralds the beginning of spring occurs in the constellation of Pisces, but it is slowly moving towards the constellation of Aquarius and will arrive there in a few hundred years or so. The seasons of the year are produced by the tilt of the axis of the Earth, and this tilt is not disturbed by the precession, but remains exactly the same with respect to the ecliptic plane. Currently in the northern hemisphere, the Earth is tilted TOWARDS the Sun by 23.5 degrees when the Earth is at its farthest from the Sun ( aphelion ) in June, and we experience summer. In the winter it is tilted AWAY from the Sun today. Because our calendar year and its seasons are tied to when the equinoxes occur, it automatically keeps up with the precession, so that in 13,000 years we will have the following situation: The axis of the Earth will be tilted TOWARDS the Sun by 23.5 degrees when the Earth is closest to the Sun ( perihelion) in the northern hemisphere in JUNE, and tilted AWAY from the Sun when it is closest to the Sun in December. Each day, our calendar is gradually 'precessing' in time by 0.008 seconds to keep up with the new locations of the equinoxes and solstices so no matter where we are in the precession cycle, winter will always happen in December, and Summer in June. BUT because in the northern hemisphere in 13,000 years we will be closer to the Sun for our summer, and farther for our winter, the severity of these seasons will be slightly greater. What will also change is the constellation that the summer solstice will be in. In 13,000 years the summer solstice will travel 1/2 of a full cycle around the zodiac. Will we still celebrate winter in December and summer in June in the northern hemisphere? Yes, and we will also see Orion as a summer constellation in 13,000 years. Precession affects the background constellations against which the Earth-Sun motion plays itself out. It does not affect the months during which the seasons occur, because these are constantly being updated to keep the vernal equinox in March etc. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. I don't even know if the former frame of reference is Tropical. Ok, you said before they were both tropical. Nope, didn't. You misunderstood what I was talking about. Gabby: Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. Judy: No, I'm just assuming Tropical. The same frame-of- reference principle holds whether it's Tropical or Sidereal. In their own context, Tropical versus Sidereal are also different frames of reference, but that's not the difference I'm talking about here. Ok Guess I still dont get your point. . I said you were confusing a sideral and tropical frame, you said they were both tropical, Nope, never said they were both tropical. (Be sure you understand what the antecedent of they is.) then you said you were not sure if one was tropical. Then you said I was confused. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You said: As I suggested earlier, the day-to-day position of the sun in the Zodiac is an entirely different frame of reference from the position of the sun from year to year at the time of the vernal equinox. In the latter frame of reference, this year the sun will be in Pisces at the time of the vernal equinox (it'll enter Aquarius in 2013). However, in the former frame of reference, this year the sun will be in the first degree of Aries at the vernal equinox. You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. I don't even know if the former frame of reference is Tropical. The thing is that the two frames of. reference are different in an entirely different way than the Tropical/Sidereal frames of reference are different. Or to put it another way, Tropical/Sidereal are two different ways of measuring the same thing; but what you're measuring when you want to know where the vernal equinox occurs in 13,000 years is something else entirely. You're getting day-to-day confused with year-to-year. And how is that? Use the single frame of reference of an earth-cenetirc view as I suggested in my Visual Model. The sun moves 360 degrees through all 12 constellations in one year. It moves about one degree in one day, about 1/30 of a constellation. Its the same frame of reference, just different distances. In that one day, one degree move, the centric-earth is also rotating once. At vernal equinox it spins and the sun rises on the horizon at due east. The only day of the year this occurs. Then sun rotates around the earth (earth centric view) 72 times. 72 years. Now the VE point, where the sun rises due east, is 359 degrees from the sun at VE 72 years prior. The sun arrives at this point one day earlier in the calendar compared to 72 years prior because it had to travel one degree less in its annual transit. (of course physically the earth rotates around the sun, but the same as above can be expressed from that POV.) Its all one frame, one consitent POV. You are stumbling on a second imaginary frame thats only in your head. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You above clarified that in your view that both points of reference are tropical. The obsevational reference is the same. I don't even know if the former frame of reference is Tropical. Ok, you said before they were both tropical. Nope, didn't. You misunderstood what I was talking about. Gabby: Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. Judy: No, I'm just assuming Tropical. The same frame-of- reference principle holds whether it's Tropical or Sidereal. In their own context, Tropical versus Sidereal are also different frames of reference, but that's not the difference I'm talking about here. Ok Guess I still dont get your point. . I said you were confusing a sideral and tropical frame, you said they were both tropical, Nope, never said they were both tropical. (Be sure you understand what the antecedent of they is.) OK but they is not the issue. Gabby: Though in the same spot, tropical view puts it in Aries, and sideral view puts it in Pisces. I think thats where you are confusing your frames. Judy: No, I'm just assuming Tropical. - Doesn't that refer to assuming tropical for both frames that I refer to? then you said you were not sure if one was tropical. Then you said I was confused. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q1795.html Will the equinoxes and solstices switch places in 13,000 years because of the precession of the Earth's rotation axis? No, there will be no swapping of the seasons and the months of the year. And no one said there would be. You are perhaps creating a strawman -- refuting something never suggested, and claiming that you have addressed the question at hand. Which is: does the position of the sun at VE receed at about 1 degree every 72 years, thus it reaches that point one day earlier on the calendar than it did 72 years earlier. This is not speculation. Its mainstream science. Long run, in 13000 years, the math will show VE to 180 degrees from where it is now. Maybe hard to swallow, but its the implication of well accepted celestial mechanics. The precession of the equinoxes of the Earth is a motion that causes the axis of the Earth's rotation to remain FIXED at an angle of 23.5 degrees, however, it rotates along a great circle with a period of 26,000 years. On average 23.5 degrees but due to factors other than precesson it can vary +- 2 degrees or so. The result is that the two points where the equator of the Earth intersect the ecliptic plane, the vernal and autumnal equinoxes, precess westward along the ecliptic by 360 degrees per 25,800 years or 50.26 seconds of arc per year. This is also equal to 0.125 seconds of arc per day or 0.008 seconds of time, so that each day the synchronization between sidereal and solar time slips a bit. Currently, the vernal equinox which heralds the beginning of spring occurs in the constellation of Pisces, but it is slowly moving towards the constellation of Aquarius and will arrive there in a few hundred years or so. yes. The seasons of the year are produced by the tilt of the axis of the Earth, and this tilt is not disturbed by the precession, but remains exactly thsee same with respect to the ecliptic plane. Thats fine, but you that has little to do with the point at hand: that the position of the sun at VE receeds at about 1 degree every 72 years, thus it reaches that point one day earlier on the calendar than it did 72 years earlier. Currently in the northern hemisphere, the Earth is tilted TOWARDS the Sun by 23.5 degrees when the Earth is at its farthest from the Sun ( aphelion ) in June, and we experiencer summer. In the winter it is tilted AWAY from the Sun today. Because our calendar year and its seasons are tied to when the equinoxes occur, it automatically keeps up with the precession, so that in 13,000 years we will have the following situation: The axis of the Earth will be tilted TOWARDS the Sun by 23.5 degrees when the Earth is closest to the Sun ( perihelion) in the northern hemisphere in JUNE, and tilted AWAY from the Sun when it is closest to the Sun in December. Each day, our calendar is gradually 'precessing' in time by 0.008 seconds to keep up with the new locations of the equinoxes and solstices so no matter where we are in the precession cycle, winter will always happen in December, and Summer in June. No argument. That is what I have been saying. BUT because in the northern hemisphere in 13,000 years we will be closer to the Sun for our summer, and farther for our winter, the severity of these seasons will be slightly greater. Yes, long term climate cycles will be generated from the long-run variations of the distance of lattitudes to the sun. What will also change is the constellation that the summer solstice will be in. In 13,000 years the summer solstice will travel 1/2 of a full cycle around the zodiac. Yes exactly. As will the position of the sun at vernal equinox, it will rotate 180 degrees in 13000 years. The VE will be in tropical Virgo in 1300o years !!! WHICH IS THE ONE POINT I HAVE BEEN MAKING. Some have made large cognitive errors in reading my posts and have interpreted The VE will be in tropical Virgo in 13000 years to be spring will be in fall. That is muddled reading and thinking, but is the distortion generating most of the rounds of recent posts. (Though in sideral systems, the ayanamsa will be 180 degrees and Jyotish will call tropical region of virgo Pisces) Will we still celebrate winter in December and summer in June in the northern hemisphere? Yes, Of course. Who said anything different? and we will also see Orion as a summer constellation in 13,000 years. Precession affects the background constellations against which the Earth-Sun motion plays itself out. It does not affect the months during which the seasons occur, Right. September sill be September. Summer/autumn weather (though other factors may modify this). because these are constantly being updated to keep the vernal equinox in March etc. WHOA! I agree with everything you have said up now. Earlier you said. What will also change
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can vernal equinox possibly be in March when in Virgo? Have you ever thought your train is moving, when it's actually the train next to yours that's doing that? :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can vernal equinox possibly be in March when in Virgo? Have you ever thought your train is moving, when it's actually the train next to yours that's doing that? :) Yea. And I wonder if it was going half the speed of light, and a guy on the roof had a base ball gun (for batting practice) shot balls forwards and backwards at half the speed of light, how fast each ball would be going? And if he shined flashlights forwards and backwards, how fast each beam would be traveling? And if my train were moving half the speed of light, in the opposite direction, how fast I would find them traveling? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Some have made large cognitive errors in reading my posts and have interpreted The VE will be in tropical Virgo in 13000 years to be spring will be in fall. That is muddled reading and thinking, but is the distortion generating most of the rounds of recent posts. Did you delete the post you made early in this thread in which you said something to the effect that you weren't sure how this purported phenomenon would affect spring break? I can't find it with Yahoo's search feature. In any case, you *have* insisted that the vernal equinox (i.e., the beginning of spring) will be in September, which seems to be a pretty clear statement that spring will be in fall. snip What will also change is the constellation that the summer solstice will be in. In 13,000 years the summer solstice will travel 1/2 of a full cycle around the zodiac. Thus in 13000 years the VE will be 180 degrees from its current position in Pisces, shifting to virgo. In tropical view, virgo is September and the earth is comimg out of summer (when N Hem. is tilted towards the sun) and into autumn. How can vernal equinox possibly be in March when in Virgo? The sun's position at the time of the vernal equinox can be in Virgo without its being September. That's what gullible fool is trying to tell you, I believe. One does not dictate the other. They're two different frames of reference. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Some have made large cognitive errors in reading my posts and have interpreted The VE will be in tropical Virgo in 13000 years to be spring will be in fall. That is muddled reading and thinking, but is the distortion generating most of the rounds of recent posts. Did you delete the post you made early in this thread in which you said something to the effect that you weren't sure how this purported phenomenon would affect spring break? HOLY Shit. Have you no sense of humor? That line was a joke. What else could it have been I can't find it with Yahoo's search feature. In any case, you *have* insisted that the vernal equinox (i.e., the beginning of spring) will be in September, which seems to be a pretty clear statement that spring will be in fall. Perhaps you read my posts selectively. You ignored my 8 points for sometime -- for all i know you did not read them. In those points and periodically after I clearly define VE as the day that the the sun rises from due east. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The sun's position at the time of the vernal equinox can be in Virgo without its being September. Really? And exactly how does that work? Its September when sun is in (tropical) virgo today. Assuming we don't change calendar systems. it will be in 500 years, 5000 years and 13000 years. Precsession of of the eqinox does not effect this. By what mechanism are you suggesting that sun in virgo will not be Sept in 13000 years? what gullible fool is trying to tell you, I believe. HAHAHA. Well let GF stand up and say it. And let him explain the above. One does not dictate the other. They're two different frames of reference. The sun is in virgo in September. Where in Gods name are two frames of reference HAHAHAH. you are so funny Judy. Again what mechanism gets sun out of (tropical) virgo in or around September? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The sun's position at the time of the vernal equinox can be in Virgo without its being September. At least its nice you apparently finally see that VE can be in Virgo in 13000 years. That it moves 180 degrees (tropically) from Pisces to Aires. That has been my main point for 2 days now. Its true, AND there are not two frames of reference in this view. That sun in virgo occurs in or around sept I thought was quite obvious. What mechanism would change ir? I mean when in the last 13000 years has sun in tropical Virgo not been in/around September? (in quotes, because calendar systems have clearly changed, but per modern calendar, sun in tropical virgo was in/around modern tropical September 500 years ago, 5000 years ago and 13000 years ago.) Show me a sun in tropical virgo that was not in (modern calendar) September? So obvious that sun in tropical virgo occurs in or around sept I thought most would easily get the add on point to the above main point(ve in virgo) : if sun at VE in 13000 years is in tropical virgo, and sun in tropical virgo is always in/around september , then VE in 13000 would be in September. A surprising insight which I figured many would enjoy the sharing of. Another angle on why sun in tropical virgo is always in September. Precession of the equinox means the sun at VE is only 359 degrees from the prior sun position at VE 72 years earlier. Thus the sun reaches this new sun/VE point about a calendar day earlier than 72 years previously. In 13000 years, everyone appears to agree that the sun at VE will be in tropical virgo, 180 degrees from the current VE which occurs in March. The 15006 position of sun at VE, being only 180 degrees from the 2006 sun at VE position, the sun will reach this point in only six months from the 2006 position. Six months of travel by the sun, from March (2006 sun in VE position) will be September. The 15005 sun at VE must occur in September. The fact that sun at VE in 15006 is also in tropical Virgo, and tropical Virgo ALWAYS occurs in/around September, is a separate point of support. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
On Jan 31, 2006, at 3:29 PM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote:The basic point is understanding what precession of the equinox means. And its impacts long run such as long run weather cycles, human migration and civilization growth/decay impacts, and how correspondence to long-run jyotish cycles may correspond correspond to the latter.The frustrating thing is, when I was taught astronomy in college, there was one simple diagram which explained this perfectly: a diagram of the plane of the ecliptic and the earths orbit. Where these two intersected, you had the equinoxes. When these two "rings" rotated in regards to one another, the equinox points changed, they precessed. It was both befuddling and elegantly simple. All scientists appear to agree that the precession of the equinox means that the position of the sun at Vernal equinox in its eliptical annual trip around the 12 constellations receeds about one degree every 72 years. Which is roughly one days travel of the sun. Thus, slowly the date of the real VE is getting earlier and earlier as the sun gets to the new VE from the old one in less 360 degrees = less than 365.25 days. Yes but one thing to keep in mind, the calendar will also change. All of that is important to understand for jyotish, long run weather cycles, long run astronomy, and general competence in knowing how the world works.Well you might enjoy reading on the Milankovitch cycles then. Sun at VE in 13000 is just an eye-catching example to people to realize that assumptions that work well in a 200 year span, don't always work well in long spans time. And makes a good story to tell at VE. "You know you kids arent going to have spring break any more in 13000 years." 19 year old blondes love this stuff. haha. Barry might pick up some more one night stands if his Woody (no pun) Allen story fails. And its all a good brain tonic to visualize this stuff. As long as we recognize that the calendar will change to accommodate these rather slow changes. The equinoctial points will move to different areas on the ecliptic, but so will our months and their seasons. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
On Jan 31, 2006, at 5:38 PM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: The precession of the equinoxes of the Earth is a motion that causes the axis of the Earth's rotation to remain FIXED at an angle of 23.5 degrees, however, it rotates along a great circle with a period of 26,000 years. On average 23.5 degrees but due to factors other than precesson it can vary +- 2 degrees or so. Yes. Nutation, a approx. 2.5 degree change in the axis does, and it is believed to affect changes in climate. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 31, 2006, at 3:29 PM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: The basic point is understanding what precession of the equinox means. And its impacts long run such as long run weather cycles, human migration and civilization growth/decay impacts, and how correspondence to long-run jyotish cycles may correspond correspond to the latter. The frustrating thing is, when I was taught astronomy in college, there was one simple diagram which explained this perfectly: a diagram of the plane of the ecliptic and the earths orbit. Where these two intersected, you had the equinoxes. When these two rings rotated in regards to one another, the equinox points changed, they precessed. It was both befuddling and elegantly simple. All scientists appear to agree that the precession of the equinox means that the position of the sun at Vernal equinox in its eliptical annual trip around the 12 constellations receeds about one degree every 72 years. Which is roughly one days travel of the sun. Thus, slowly the date of the real VE is getting earlier and earlier as the sun gets to the new VE from the old one in less 360 degrees = less than 365.25 days. Yes but one thing to keep in mind, the calendar will also change. All of that is important to understand for jyotish, long run weather cycles, long run astronomy, and general competence in knowing how the world works. Well you might enjoy reading on the Milankovitch cycles then. I have been . And about interglacetion periods such as we are in -- sort of high temperature plateau, a 50-100 k years vacations from our larger 3-4 million year ice age we are in, that essentially allowed civilization to get a start. It had a false start two interglacetion periods ago, but humans were wiped out before the major ice age recommenced. And Collapse. Sun at VE in 13000 is just an eye-catching example to people to realize that assumptions that work well in a 200 year span, don't always work well in long spans time. And makes a good story to tell at VE. You know you kids arent going to have spring break any more in 13000 years. 19 year old blondes love this stuff. haha. Barry might pick up some more one night stands if his Woody (no pun) Allen story fails. And its all a good brain tonic to visualize this stuff. As long as we recognize that the calendar will change to accommodate these rather slow changes. The equinoctial points will move to different areas on the ecliptic, but so will our months and their seasons. My thesis assumes the modern current calendar. Not that I expect that will be used in 13000 years. But using the current system, sun in tropical virgo will still be in september. And the sun at VE in 15006 will be in tropical virgo. We can slowly shift calendar March to September over the next 13000 years -- but there is no current mechanism to do that. That you could create such a fix in the future does not change my basic points. I think the author of the article GF posted is making this assumption about future tweaks to the calendar so in 15006 sun at VE in Virgo will be in March. He has an obscure sentence about adjustments. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Some have made large cognitive errors in reading my posts and have interpreted The VE will be in tropical Virgo in 13000 years to be spring will be in fall. That is muddled reading and thinking, but is the distortion generating most of the rounds of recent posts. Did you delete the post you made early in this thread in which you said something to the effect that you weren't sure how this purported phenomenon would affect spring break? HOLY Shit. Have you no sense of humor? That line was a joke. What else could it have been Yes, obviously it was a joke. What difference does that make? Did you delete it? I can't find it with Yahoo's search feature. In any case, you *have* insisted that the vernal equinox (i.e., the beginning of spring) will be in September, which seems to be a pretty clear statement that spring will be in fall. Perhaps you read my posts selectively. You ignored my 8 points for sometime -- for all i know you did not read them. In those points and periodically after I clearly define VE as the day that the the sun rises from due east. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The sun's position at the time of the vernal equinox can be in Virgo without its being September. At least its nice you apparently finally see that VE can be in Virgo in 13000 years. Never said it couldn't, of course. That it moves 180 degrees (tropically) from Pisces to Aires. That has been my main point for 2 days now. Its true, AND there are not two frames of reference in this view. Right, the other frame of reference is the date of the vernal equinox. Instead of yapping on and on and on, just take a few minutes and THINK about what I just said. That sun in virgo occurs in or around sept I thought was quite obvious. What mechanism would change ir? I mean when in the last 13000 years has sun in tropical Virgo not been in/around September? (in quotes, because calendar systems have clearly changed, but per modern calendar, sun in tropical virgo was in/around modern tropical September 500 years ago, 5000 years ago and 13000 years ago.) Show me a sun in tropical virgo that was not in (modern calendar) September? So obvious that sun in tropical virgo occurs in or around sept I thought most would easily get the add on point to the above main point(ve in virgo) : if sun at VE in 13000 years is in tropical virgo, and sun in tropical virgo is always in/around september , then VE in 13000 would be in September. A surprising insight which I figured many would enjoy the sharing of. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
On Jan 31, 2006, at 9:32 PM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote:My thesis assumes the modern current calendar. Not that I expect that will be used in 13000 years. But using the current system, sun in tropical virgo will still be in september. And the sun at VE in 15006 will be in tropical virgo.Yes but when you use the current system you are ignoring the fact that it is and will be adjusted based on the equinoctial point which are used to determine the seasons. The current calendar, despite it's problems is followed for adjustment. We can slowly shift calendar March to September over the next 13000 years -- but there is no current mechanism to do that.Then you might want to read a little on calendars, reform, etc. Most certainly it will be changed since these well known points correspond to our seasons and our months. That you could create such a fix in the future does not change my basic points.No, just it does not make sense to refer to something as occurring in some imaginary September which will never exist. I think the author of the article GF posted is making this assumption about future tweaks to the calendar so in 15006 sun at VE in Virgo will be in "March". He has an obscure sentence about adjustments. Yes, this whole idea is well known and accepted by astronomers and others. I'll have to look, but I believe the Surya Siddhanta provides for such calendrical reform. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East - Finally, the last word
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Some have made large cognitive errors in reading my posts and have interpreted The VE will be in tropical Virgo in 13000 years to be spring will be in fall. That is muddled reading and thinking, but is the distortion generating most of the rounds of recent posts. Did you delete the post you made early in this thread in which you said something to the effect that you weren't sure how this purported phenomenon would affect spring break? HOLY Shit. Have you no sense of humor? That line was a joke. What else could it have been Yes, obviously it was a joke. What difference does that make? Did you delete it? No. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [...] So you agree that in 13000 years, tropical sun is in virgo, aka around september? But is Virgo in September by that time? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 31, 2006, at 9:32 PM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: That you could create such a fix in the future does not change my basic points. No, just it does not make sense to refer to something as occurring in some imaginary September which will never exist. It makes sense to me. Its not a 13000 yr forecast. It was a thought experiment to test and my understanding of the mechanics and the implications of precession. Mission accomplished! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I'm *very* clear on is that spring doesn't end up coming in September 13,000 years hence. And of course you know you are misrepresnting what I said, putting your spin on it. I have said that the vernal equinox -- defined as the day on which the sun rises due east, will occur in the time of year we currently refer to as september 13000 years from now. The sun will be in the tropical constellation of virgo. But our calander system accounts for the revolution of the earth aroundthe sun to keep important sun-related dates approximately the same over very long stretches of time. And we're willing to add seconds or minutes (or subtract them) when needed to keep the dates approximately the same over centuries. The fact that the constellations may change relative to the dates is well-known. The actual numerical date assigned to a given solor- related event will still be approximately the same for as long as we keep the calander system going because we fudge it every so often to keep it that way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bhagwan_goose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point exactly. As you may have seen in my original post back to peter (to which you responded) if procession does not imply the sun rising from different directions, for example from the west 13,000 yrsr agos (half a precessional cycle), then why and how does it make SV invalid in the long run -- as Peter has argued. I don't think your mental model is quite right, Not the first time its been off. :) Gee thanks. :) But its certainly true. but I'm not sure exactly how it's off, so I don't know how to help you correct it. Do you therefore feel Peter's model is correct? If so, can you explain why? Precession is clearly real. The issue is does it effect the sun's directional relationship to buildings over long spans of time. It does not appear to. So why does precession invalidate SV as Peter argued? It changes by a few degrees over time. The 1 degree per 72 years sounds off. Perhaps 1 second of arc per 72 years? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The postions are mutually exclusive. This is not a Paradox of Brahman. Both statements cannot be true -- even if some psuedo-enlightened want to suggest that anyone who can't hold both as blissfully true will never be enlightened. :) http://snipurl.com/m1z8 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bhagwan_goose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point exactly. As you may have seen in my original post back to peter (to which you responded) if procession does not imply the sun rising from different directions, for example from the west 13,000 yrsr agos (half a precessional cycle), then why and how does it make SV invalid in the long run -- as Peter has argued. I don't think your mental model is quite right, Not the first time its been off. :) Gee thanks. :) But its certainly true. but I'm not sure exactly how it's off, so I don't know how to help you correct it. Do you therefore feel Peter's model is correct? If so, can you explain why? Precession is clearly real. The issue is does it effect the sun's directional relationship to buildings over long spans of time. It does not appear to. So why does precession invalidate SV as Peter argued? It changes by a few degrees over time. The 1 degree per 72 years sounds off. Perhaps 1 second of arc per 72 years? One precession cycle takes approximately 27,000 years. So around 13,000 years gives the full range of the arc which is 23-24 degrees. What does that compute to per year? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bhagwan_goose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point exactly. As you may have seen in my original post back to peter (to which you responded) if procession does not imply the sun rising from different directions, for example from the west 13,000 yrsr agos (half a precessional cycle), then why and how does it make SV invalid in the long run -- as Peter has argued. I don't think your mental model is quite right, Not the first time its been off. :) Gee thanks. :) But its certainly true. but I'm not sure exactly how it's off, so I don't know how to help you correct it. Do you therefore feel Peter's model is correct? If so, can you explain why? Precession is clearly real. The issue is does it effect the sun's directional relationship to buildings over long spans of time. It does not appear to. So why does precession invalidate SV as Peter argued? It changes by a few degrees over time. The 1 degree per 72 years sounds off. Perhaps 1 second of arc per 72 years? One precession cycle takes approximately 27,000 years. So around 13,000 years gives the full range of the arc which is 23-24 degrees. What does that compute to per year? Hmmm 360 x 72 = 25920 yrs? A large pen on the North Pole draws a full circle. http://www.crystalinks.com/precession.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
As the author of an early software app which calculated a number of obscure astro. variables for observers, Dr. Pete's observation are close for an observer on earth--approx. 1 degree every 72 years. As you probably know, western astrologers stopped including precession in their horoscopes long before the first millenium CE, thus they depart from real accuracy in a number of ways since that era.Interestingly when I purchased a slew of texts from the library of a Sanskrit scholar who passed away in the 80's, among the works I got was the Surya Siddhanta, an old Hindu astronomical text. Apparently the Indian astronomers had a very old understanding of precession as this text included the formulae for these calcs.On Jan 30, 2006, at 3:45 AM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bhagwan_goose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point exactly. As you may have seen in my original post back to peter (to which you responded) if procession does not imply the sun rising from different directions, for example from the west 13,000 yrsr agos (half a precessional cycle), then why and how does it make SV invalid in the long run -- as Peter has argued. I don't think your mental model is quite right, Not the first time its been off. :) Gee thanks. :) But its certainly true. but I'm not sure exactly how it's off, so I don't know how to help you correct it. Do you therefore feel Peter's model is correct? If so, can you explain why? Precession is clearly real. The issue is does it effect the sun's directional relationship to buildings over long spans of time. It does not appear to. So why does precession invalidate SV as Peter argued? It changes by a few degrees over time. The 1 degree per 72 years sounds off. Perhaps 1 second of arc per 72 years? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip As you probably know, western astrologers stopped including precession in their horoscopes long before the first millenium CE, thus they depart from real accuracy in a number of ways since that era. In fact, it's a matter of what is held to be significant, a conceptual difference. See, for example: http://astrology.about.com/od/yourzodiacsign/l/aa053099.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As the author of an early software app which calculated a number of obscure astro. variables for observers, Dr. Pete's observation are close for an observer on earth--approx. 1 degree every 72 years. As you probably know, western astrologers stopped including precession in their horoscopes long before the first millenium CE, thus they depart from real accuracy in a number of ways since that era. Interestingly when I purchased a slew of texts from the library of a Sanskrit scholar who passed away in the 80's, among the works I got was the Surya Siddhanta, an old Hindu astronomical text. Apparently the Indian astronomers had a very old understanding of precession as this text included the formulae for these calcs. Perhaps you can shed some light on the following: Peter claims that this precession changes the orientation of buildings over long of time -- that a building facing due east will be facing due west in 13,000 years due to precession (assuming it is still there (this is thought experiment -- useful for clarifying concepts.) And this thus makes SV quite releative to time, and makes invalid in the long run. Judy claims that the sun will still rise in the east in 13000 years. I suggest that if Judy is correct, a building correctly facing the sun per SV now will be correctly facing the sun in 13000 years. If Judy is not correct, and Peter is, the sun will be rising from the west in 13000, the building will be facing the wrong way. So who is right? Judy: the sun will still rise in the east in 13000 years. Peter: the sun will be rising from the west in 13000, the building will be facing the wrong way per SV. The postions are mutually exclusive. This is not a Paradox of Brahman. Both statements cannot be true -- even if some psuedo-enlightened want to suggest that anyone who can't hold both as blissfully true will never be enlightened. :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But whatever precession has to do with proper Vastu, it has *nothing* to do with the sun rising in the west. And your view contradicts Peter's position. I seriously doubt Peter was saying precession results in the sun eventually rising in the west. What's off about your mental model, I strongly suspect, is that you think what he's saying *implies* this; precession certainly does not. Whether precession throws proper Vastu off, I'm not sure; but if it does, it would be within a relatively small range--about 24 degrees--and only temporarily: every 26,000 years, approximately, the circle described by the earth's axis is complete, and it's back to its starting point. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
The Precession of the axis, refers to the change in the Tilt of the axis. The axis itself does not change. The Tilt of the axis changes because the Earth Wobbles in it's rotation. It cannot change the direction on the ground. I think Doc_Gabby and Sri. Stein are correct. doctor_gabby_savy[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:37:12 - Perhaps you can shed some light on the following:Peter claims that this precession changes the orientation of buildingsover long of time -- that a building facing due east will be facingdue west in 13,000 years due to precession (assuming it is stillthere (this is "thought" experiment -- useful for clarifyingconcepts.) And this thus makes SV quite releative to time, and makesinvalid in the long run.Judy claims that the sun will still rise in the east in 13000 years.I suggest that if Judy is correct, a building correctly facing thesun per SV now will be correctly facing the sun in 13000 years.If Judy is not correct, and Peter is, the sun will be rising from thewest in 13000, the building will be facing the wrong way.So who is right?Judy: the sun will still rise in the east in 13000 years.Peter: the sun will be rising from the west in 13000, the buildingwill be facing the wrong way per SV.The postions are mutually exclusive. This is not a "Paradox ofBrahman". Both statements cannot be true -- even if somepsuedo-enlightened want to suggest that anyone who can't hold both as blissfully true will never be enlightened. :) Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East Since were talking about the precession of the equinoxes, Id like to recommend this wonderful book by Rob Cox: http://tinyurl.com/at3uj To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But whatever precession has to do with proper Vastu, it has *nothing* to do with the sun rising in the west. And your view contradicts Peter's position. I seriously doubt Peter was saying precession results in the sun eventually rising in the west. What's off about your mental model, I strongly suspect, is that you think what he's saying *implies* this; precession certainly does not. Whether precession throws proper Vastu off, I'm not sure; but if it does, it would be within a relatively small range--about 24 degrees--and only temporarily: every 26,000 years, approximately, the circle described by the earth's axis is complete, and it's back to its starting point. Thank you Judy. Yes it would go off and then come back cycling every 26,000 years. The maximum it could be off would be 24 degrees and the miniumum would be 12 degrees from one's original fixed east point. If the sun does rise in the west, we're all in big trouble! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Perhaps you can shed some light on the following: Peter claims that this precession changes the orientation of buildings over long of time -- that a building facing due east will be facing due west in 13,000 years due to precession I just went back and looked, and Peter did *not* claim a building facing due east will be facing due west in 13,000 years. That was your interpretation of what he wrote. As far as I can tell, he was saying what I told you, that there would be a 24-degree variance. That 24 degrees (at 13,000 years) is the *most* it varies from the starting point--and then over the next 13,000 years the variance decreases until it's 0 degrees at 26,000 years. And then the cycle begins again. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But whatever precession has to do with proper Vastu, it has *nothing* to do with the sun rising in the west. And your view contradicts Peter's position. I seriously doubt Peter was saying precession results in the sun eventually rising in the west. What's off about your mental model, I strongly suspect, is that you think what he's saying *implies* this; precession certainly does not. Whether precession throws proper Vastu off, I'm not sure; but if it does, it would be within a relatively small range--about 24 degrees--and only temporarily: every 26,000 years, approximately, the circle described by the earth's axis is complete, and it's back to its starting point. Ok. I may have not gotten the full picture of precession, the 24 degree part. Ok, visualizing it, I think I get it. At 180 degrees of precession, the relationship / tilt of the earth to sun is changed by 24 degrees. Yet during the 26000 year precesson cycle, the planets, including the sun, travel the full 360 degrees of the zodiac. Thats the visual model I have not captured yet, to capture these two things. Regardless, my quesion is the same -- but its just the effect is less, about 12th. a) in 13000 years, does the sun rise 24 degrees off the point earth it now rises (at same day of the year)? In other words, b) If a house is facing the sun properly now, will it be facing the sun properly in 13000 years. And for practical purposes, even if the correct orientation of the sun does shift over time, its about 1 degree every 500 years. As I remember SV tolerances are like 2 degrees. So a building is good to go for 1000 years or so. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But whatever precession has to do with proper Vastu, it has *nothing* to do with the sun rising in the west. And your view contradicts Peter's position. I seriously doubt Peter was saying precession results in the sun eventually rising in the west. What's off about your mental model, I strongly suspect, is that you think what he's saying *implies* this; precession certainly does not. Whether precession throws proper Vastu off, I'm not sure; but if it does, it would be within a relatively small range--about 24 degrees--and only temporarily: every 26,000 years, approximately, the circle described by the earth's axis is complete, and it's back to its starting point. Thank you Judy. Yes it would go off and then come back cycling every 26,000 years. The maximum it could be off would be 24 degrees and the miniumum would be 12 degrees from one's original fixed east point. If the sun does rise in the west, we're all in big trouble! Yupper. But the minimum would be *0 degrees* from the original point, not 12 degrees, when the axis returns to where it started. (I'm not sure if the maximum variance is 24 degrees or 12 degrees, though; my own mental model becomes fuzzy here!) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Perhaps you can shed some light on the following: Peter claims that this precession changes the orientation of buildings over long of time -- that a building facing due east will be facing due west in 13,000 years due to precession I just went back and looked, and Peter did *not* claim a building facing due east will be facing due west in 13,000 years. That was your interpretation of what he wrote. Yes, it was my mistaken extrapolation of what he said. I thought he was saying the orientation to the sun changed one degree every 72 years. And I just did the math 72* 180 =13000 years. As I now understand it , he would hold that the orientation changes 24 degrees every 13000 years. Or one degree every 541 years. My main question still holds. Does the orientation of a building to the sun really change at that rate? Like pyramids, 4000 yrs / 500 is about 8 degrees. Has the orientation of the pyramids to the sun changed 8 degrees? A recent poster says no. If he is correct, then Peter's point about SV getting out of whack over time is invalid. As far as I can tell, he was saying what I told you, that there would be a 24-degree variance. That 24 degrees (at 13,000 years) is the *most* it varies from the starting point--and then over the next 13,000 years the variance decreases until it's 0 degrees at 26,000 years. And then the cycle begins again. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But whatever precession has to do with proper Vastu, it has *nothing* to do with the sun rising in the west. And your view contradicts Peter's position. I seriously doubt Peter was saying precession results in the sun eventually rising in the west. What's off about your mental model, I strongly suspect, is that you think what he's saying *implies* this; precession certainly does not. Whether precession throws proper Vastu off, I'm not sure; but if it does, it would be within a relatively small range--about 24 degrees--and only temporarily: every 26,000 years, approximately, the circle described by the earth's axis is complete, and it's back to its starting point. Ok. I may have not gotten the full picture of precession, the 24 degree part. Ok, visualizing it, I think I get it. At 180 degrees of precession, the relationship / tilt of the earth to sun is changed by 24 degrees. Yes, I think that's right. Yet during the 26000 year precesson cycle, the planets, including the sun, travel the full 360 degrees of the zodiac. Thats the visual model I have not captured yet, to capture these two things. See the link I posted in response to Vaj--that may help. I've got both models in mind, but I can't put them together. I don't believe the difference between the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs is at all related to Vastu, though, except insofar as the precession of the equinoxes is related to both the differences in the Zodiacs and to Vastu (and I'm not sure it's related to Vastu after all--see below). Regardless, my quesion is the same -- but its just the effect is less, about 12th. a) in 13000 years, does the sun rise 24 degrees off the point earth it now rises (at same day of the year)? It's either 24 or 12 degrees. I *think* it's 24. In other words, b) If a house is facing the sun properly now, will it be facing the sun properly in 13000 years. See the message Rick just posted from somebody else. I think he's right, that due east is an earth-based direction and doesn't ever change no matter what the earth's axis does--which would mean Peter is wrong, but in a different way than you had thought. If Peter's right and Rick's poster is wrong, though, a house that's facing the sun properly now would be facing the sun properly again in *26,000* years, not 13,000. I think... Thirteen thousand years would be the maximum variance. And for practical purposes, even if the correct orientation of the sun does shift over time, its about 1 degree every 500 years. As I remember SV tolerances are like 2 degrees. So a building is good to go for 1000 years or so. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I just went back and looked, and Peter did *not* claim a building facing due east will be facing due west in 13,000 years. That was your interpretation of what he wrote. Yes, it was my mistaken extrapolation of what he said. I thought he was saying the orientation to the sun changed one degree every 72 years. And I just did the math 72* 180 =13000 years. As I now understand it , he would hold that the orientation changes 24 degrees every 13000 years. Or one degree every 541 years. My main question still holds. Does the orientation of a building to the sun really change at that rate? Like pyramids, 4000 yrs / 500 is about 8 degrees. Has the orientation of the pyramids to the sun changed 8 degrees? A recent poster says no. If he is correct, then Peter's point about SV getting out of whack over time is invalid. Right, it would be. But whether that's the case or not goes beyond my limited understanding. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
On Jan 30, 2006, at 10:37 AM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote:Perhaps you can shed some light on the following: Peter claims that this precession changes the orientation of buildings over long of time -- that a building facing due east will be facing due west in 13,000 years due to precession (assuming it is still there (this is "thought" experiment -- useful for clarifying concepts.) And this thus makes SV quite releative to time, and makes invalid in the long run. Judy claims that the sun will still rise in the east in 13000 years. I suggest that if Judy is correct, a building correctly facing the sun per SV now will be correctly facing the sun in 13000 years.As long as the earth rotates in the direction it does it will continue to rise "relatively" east--but where on the horizon a particular celestial object rises at a specific time of year will change relative to the horizon. If Judy is not correct, and Peter is, the sun will be rising from the west in 13000, the building will be facing the wrong way. So who is right? Judy: the sun will still rise in the east in 13000 years.Relatively speaking it will. Peter: the sun will be rising from the west in 13000, the building will be facing the wrong way per SV. The postions are mutually exclusive. This is not a "Paradox of Brahman". Both statements cannot be true -- even if some psuedo-enlightened want to suggest that anyone who can't hold both as blissfully true will never be enlightened. :) We should consider there are two different phenomenon we're talking about--one is the precession of the equinoxes, another is how setting and rising positions of the planets and fixed stars change over time.Depending on your latitude, where the sun rises or sets is different, and it is different at different seasons. Across time these change also due to precession. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But whatever precession has to do with proper Vastu, it has *nothing* to do with the sun rising in the west. And your view contradicts Peter's position. I seriously doubt Peter was saying precession results in the sun eventually rising in the west. What's off about your mental model, I strongly suspect, is that you think what he's saying *implies* this; precession certainly does not. Whether precession throws proper Vastu off, I'm not sure; but if it does, it would be within a relatively small range--about 24 degrees--and only temporarily: every 26,000 years, approximately, the circle described by the earth's axis is complete, and it's back to its starting point. Ok. I may have not gotten the full picture of precession, the 24 degree part. Ok, visualizing it, I think I get it. At 180 degrees of precession, the relationship / tilt of the earth to sun is changed by 24 degrees. Yes, I think that's right. Yet during the 26000 year precesson cycle, the planets, including the sun, travel the full 360 degrees of the zodiac. Thats the visual model I have not captured yet, to capture these two things. See the link I posted in response to Vaj--that may help. I've got both models in mind, but I can't put them together. I don't believe the difference between the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs is at all related to Vastu, though, except insofar as the precession of the equinoxes is related to both the differences in the Zodiacs and to Vastu (and I'm not sure it's related to Vastu after all--see below). Regardless, my quesion is the same -- but its just the effect is less, about 12th. a) in 13000 years, does the sun rise 24 degrees off the point earth it now rises (at same day of the year)? It's either 24 or 12 degrees. I *think* it's 24. In other words, b) If a house is facing the sun properly now, will it be facing the sun properly in 13000 years. See the message Rick just posted from somebody else. I think he's right, that due east is an earth-based direction and doesn't ever change no matter what the earth's axis does--which would mean Peter is wrong, but in a different way than you had thought. If Peter's right and Rick's poster is wrong, though, a house that's facing the sun properly now would be facing the sun properly again in *26,000* years, not 13,000. I think... Thirteen thousand years would be the maximum variance. And for practical purposes, even if the correct orientation of the sun does shift over time, its about 1 degree every 500 years. As I remember SV tolerances are like 2 degrees. So a building is good to go for 1000 years or so. We're a confused group, aren't we! :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But whatever precession has to do with proper Vastu, it has *nothing* to do with the sun rising in the west. And your view contradicts Peter's position. I seriously doubt Peter was saying precession results in the sun eventually rising in the west. What's off about your mental model, I strongly suspect, is that you think what he's saying *implies* this; precession certainly does not. Whether precession throws proper Vastu off, I'm not sure; but if it does, it would be within a relatively small range--about 24 degrees--and only temporarily: every 26,000 years, approximately, the circle described by the earth's axis is complete, and it's back to its starting point. Thank you Judy. Yes it would go off and then come back cycling every 26,000 years. The maximum it could be off would be 24 degrees and the miniumum would be 12 degrees from one's original fixed east point. If the sun does rise in the west, we're all in big trouble! Yupper. But the minimum would be *0 degrees* from the original point, not 12 degrees, when the axis returns to where it started. (I'm not sure if the maximum variance is 24 degrees or 12 degrees, though; my own mental model becomes fuzzy here!) Right, because it's a circle viewed on edge, so to speak, so we only see the sun's rising point moving south or north as the years pass.I think it's 24 ...which stars Keifer Sutherland and is on tonight and Jack will be taking care of business, again, tonight! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
On Jan 30, 2006, at 11:50 AM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote:My main question still holds. Does the orientation of a building to the sun really change at that rate? Like pyramids, 4000 yrs / 500 is about 8 degrees. Has the orientation of the pyramids to the sun changed 8 degrees? A recent poster says no. If he is correct, then Peter's point about SV getting out of whack over time is invalid. No, it does not. You would be operating on a false assumption and that gross assumption is that since the earth's axis is currently about 23.5 degrees IIRC, that it goes back to the zero position! It does NOT do this. The wobble or nutation is only about 2.5 or 3 degrees--that is it wobble between about 22 degrees and 25 degrees (don't take that as exact, I'm going on memory here).For example I've been at archaeoastronomical sites, of which there are quite a few in New England, which all date from about 10,000 years ago--after the last ice age. The precessional change was only about 2 degrees IIRC. It was not a large number. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But whatever precession has to do with proper Vastu, it has *nothing* to do with the sun rising in the west. And your view contradicts Peter's position. I seriously doubt Peter was saying precession results in the sun eventually rising in the west. What's off about your mental model, I strongly suspect, is that you think what he's saying *implies* this; precession certainly does not. Whether precession throws proper Vastu off, I'm not sure; but if it does, it would be within a relatively small range--about 24 degrees--and only temporarily: every 26,000 years, approximately, the circle described by the earth's axis is complete, and it's back to its starting point. Ok. I may have not gotten the full picture of precession, the 24 degree part. Ok, visualizing it, I think I get it. At 180 degrees of precession, the relationship / tilt of the earth to sun is changed by 24 degrees. Yes, I think that's right. Yet during the 26000 year precesson cycle, the planets, including the sun, travel the full 360 degrees of the zodiac. Thats the visual model I have not captured yet, to capture these two things. See the link I posted in response to Vaj--that may help. I've got both models in mind, but I can't put them together. I don't believe the difference between the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs is at all related to Vastu, though, except insofar as the precession of the equinoxes is related to both the differences in the Zodiacs and to Vastu (and I'm not sure it's related to Vastu after all--see below). Regardless, my quesion is the same -- but its just the effect is less, about 12th. a) in 13000 years, does the sun rise 24 degrees off the point earth it now rises (at same day of the year)? It's either 24 or 12 degrees. I *think* it's 24. In other words, b) If a house is facing the sun properly now, will it be facing the sun properly in 13000 years. See the message Rick just posted from somebody else. I think he's right, that due east is an earth-based direction and doesn't ever change no matter what the earth's axis does--which would mean Peter is wrong, but in a different way than you had thought. If Peter's right and Rick's poster is wrong, though, a house that's facing the sun properly now would be facing the sun properly again in *26,000* years, not 13,000. I think... Thirteen thousand years would be the maximum variance. And for practical purposes, even if the correct orientation of the sun does shift over time, its about 1 degree every 500 years. As I remember SV tolerances are like 2 degrees. So a building is good to go for 1000 years or so. Here's my 2 cents... East and West are determined by the spin of the earth, not by the relationship of the earth and sun or stars. The earth spins about the axis defined by the poles, and that doesn't change - the north pole is always at the same place in the arctic, and the south pole is always at the same place in the antarctic. So long as the earth spins about that axis, the sun will always rise in the east, but at a varying latitude as Vaj said. That higher or lower latitude will change the length of the day, but it won't change which way is east. If you use Vaj's stick and circle method for finding which way is east, the latitude of the sun will determine the times at which the shadow crosses the line, and the angle from the stick to the crossing points, but when you join the points, the line will always be parallel to the spin of the earth. The magnetic poles are another matter entirely. They are close to the earths spin axis, but constantly slowly moving around, which is why magnetic north, for most of us, is not the same as true north. Then occasionally at random times, typically hundreds of thousands of years apart, the magnetic poles switch over between the arctic and antarctic. If you look at a compass after that happens it will indicate that *magnetic* north is in the antarctic, so based on that the sun will rise in the west, but that's only by the compass, and in fact the sun will continue to rise in the same direction it always has. So you can build your east facing house, and it will stay facing east. Scorpianon - facing east and still not enlightened Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bhagwan_goose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point exactly. As you may have seen in my original post back to peter (to which you responded) if procession does not imply the sun rising from different directions, for example from the west 13,000 yrsr agos (half a precessional cycle), then why and how does it make SV invalid in the long run -- as Peter has argued. I don't think your mental model is quite right, Not the first time its been off. :) Gee thanks. :) But its certainly true. but I'm not sure exactly how it's off, so I don't know how to help you correct it. Do you therefore feel Peter's model is correct? If so, can you explain why? Precession is clearly real. The issue is does it effect the sun's directional relationship to buildings over long spans of time. It does not appear to. So why does precession invalidate SV as Peter argued? It changes by a few degrees over time. The 1 degree per 72 years sounds off. Perhaps 1 second of arc per 72 years? One precession cycle takes approximately 27,000 years. So around 13,000 years gives the full range of the arc which is 23-24 degrees. What does that compute to per year? call it 27 degrees. 27/27,000 = 1/1000 of a degree per year. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 30, 2006, at 11:50 AM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: My main question still holds. Does the orientation of a building to the sun really change at that rate? Like pyramids, 4000 yrs / 500 is about 8 degrees. Has the orientation of the pyramids to the sun changed 8 degrees? A recent poster says no. If he is correct, then Peter's point about SV getting out of whack over time is invalid. No, it does not. You would be operating on a false assumption and that gross assumption is that since the earth's axis is currently about 23.5 degrees IIRC, that it goes back to the zero position! Actually, I was not making that assumption. But I was making a different false assumption based on my trying to piece things together from different posts. I finally did some reading. I think I got now. And can demonstrate with two pencils how the equinox rotates around the full 360 degrees of the zodiac, over 26000 years and how the angle of the earth's axis relative to the sun is shifts slightly, a few degrees as you say during the precesson, but remains about 23.5 degrees +- 2-3 degrees depending on where it is in the precesson cycle. Thus the earths access does change slightly in relaationship to the sun, maybe 2 degrees max in 13000 years. But 2 degrees are within the range of tolerance of SV (I believe). And the shift for a 1000 yr old building will be less than .2 degrees. So Peter is right, there is a shift. He is wrong in the magnitude -- its way too small to matter. No need to rebuild your 1000 year old SV dynastal mansion. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But whatever precession has to do with proper Vastu, it has *nothing* to do with the sun rising in the west. And your view contradicts Peter's position. I seriously doubt Peter was saying precession results in the sun eventually rising in the west. What's off about your mental model, I strongly suspect, is that you think what he's saying *implies* this; precession certainly does not. Whether precession throws proper Vastu off, I'm not sure; but if it does, it would be within a relatively small range--about 24 degrees--and only temporarily: every 26,000 years, approximately, the circle described by the earth's axis is complete, and it's back to its starting point. Ok. I may have not gotten the full picture of precession, the 24 degree part. Ok, visualizing it, I think I get it. At 180 degrees of precession, the relationship / tilt of the earth to sun is changed by 24 degrees. Yes, I think that's right. Yet during the 26000 year precesson cycle, the planets, including the sun, travel the full 360 degrees of the zodiac. Thats the visual model I have not captured yet, to capture these two things. See the link I posted in response to Vaj--that may help. I've got both models in mind, but I can't put them together. I don't believe the difference between the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs is at all related to Vastu, though, except insofar as the precession of the equinoxes is related to both the differences in the Zodiacs and to Vastu (and I'm not sure it's related to Vastu after all--see below). Regardless, my quesion is the same -- but its just the effect is less, about 12th. a) in 13000 years, does the sun rise 24 degrees off the point earth it now rises (at same day of the year)? It's either 24 or 12 degrees. I *think* it's 24. In other words, b) If a house is facing the sun properly now, will it be facing the sun properly in 13000 years. See the message Rick just posted from somebody else. I think he's right, that due east is an earth-based direction and doesn't ever change no matter what the earth's axis does--which would mean Peter is wrong, but in a different way than you had thought. If Peter's right and Rick's poster is wrong, though, a house that's facing the sun properly now would be facing the sun properly again in *26,000* years, not 13,000. I think... Thirteen thousand years would be the maximum variance. And for practical purposes, even if the correct orientation of the sun does shift over time, its about 1 degree every 500 years. As I remember SV tolerances are like 2 degrees. So a building is good to go for 1000 years or so. Here's my 2 cents... East and West are determined by the spin of the earth, not by the relationship of the earth and sun or stars. The earth spins about the axis defined by the poles, and that doesn't change - the north pole is always at the same place in the arctic, and the south pole is always at the same place in the antarctic. So long as the earth spins about that axis, the sun will always rise in the east, but at a varying latitude as Vaj said. That higher or lower latitude will change the length of the day, but it won't change which way is east. If you use Vaj's stick and circle method for finding which way is east, the latitude of the sun will determine the times at which the shadow crosses the line, and the angle from the stick to the crossing points, but when you join the points, the line will always be parallel to the spin of the earth. The magnetic poles are another matter entirely. They are close to the earths spin axis, but constantly slowly moving around, which is why magnetic north, for most of us, is not the same as true north. Then occasionally at random times, typically hundreds of thousands of years apart, the magnetic poles switch over between the arctic and antarctic. If you look at a compass after that happens it will indicate that *magnetic* north is in the antarctic, so based on that the sun will rise in the west, but that's only by the compass, and in fact the sun will continue to rise in the same direction it always has. So you can build your east facing house, and it will stay facing east. Scorpianon - facing east and still not enlightened PS. If I understand it
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But whatever precession has to do with proper Vastu, it has *nothing* to do with the sun rising in the west. And your view contradicts Peter's position. I seriously doubt Peter was saying precession results in the sun eventually rising in the west. What's off about your mental model, I strongly suspect, is that you think what he's saying *implies* this; precession certainly does not. Whether precession throws proper Vastu off, I'm not sure; but if it does, it would be within a relatively small range--about 24 degrees--and only temporarily: every 26,000 years, approximately, the circle described by the earth's axis is complete, and it's back to its starting point. Ok. I may have not gotten the full picture of precession, the 24 degree part. Ok, visualizing it, I think I get it. At 180 degrees of precession, the relationship / tilt of the earth to sun is changed by 24 degrees. Yes, I think that's right. Yet during the 26000 year precesson cycle, the planets, including the sun, travel the full 360 degrees of the zodiac. Thats the visual model I have not captured yet, to capture these two things. See the link I posted in response to Vaj--that may help. I've got both models in mind, but I can't put them together. I don't believe the difference between the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs is at all related to Vastu, though, except insofar as the precession of the equinoxes is related to both the differences in the Zodiacs and to Vastu (and I'm not sure it's related to Vastu after all--see below). Regardless, my quesion is the same -- but its just the effect is less, about 12th. a) in 13000 years, does the sun rise 24 degrees off the point earth it now rises (at same day of the year)? It's either 24 or 12 degrees. I *think* it's 24. In other words, b) If a house is facing the sun properly now, will it be facing the sun properly in 13000 years. See the message Rick just posted from somebody else. I think he's right, that due east is an earth-based direction and doesn't ever change no matter what the earth's axis does--which would mean Peter is wrong, but in a different way than you had thought. If Peter's right and Rick's poster is wrong, though, a house that's facing the sun properly now would be facing the sun properly again in *26,000* years, not 13,000. I think... Thirteen thousand years would be the maximum variance. And for practical purposes, even if the correct orientation of the sun does shift over time, its about 1 degree every 500 years. As I remember SV tolerances are like 2 degrees. So a building is good to go for 1000 years or so. Here's my 2 cents... East and West are determined by the spin of the earth, not by the relationship of the earth and sun or stars. The earth spins about the axis defined by the poles, and that doesn't change - the north pole is always at the same place in the arctic, and the south pole is always at the same place in the antarctic. So long as the earth spins about that axis, the sun will always rise in the east, but at a varying latitude as Vaj said. That higher or lower latitude will change the length of the day, but it won't change which way is east. If you use Vaj's stick and circle method for finding which way is east, the latitude of the sun will determine the times at which the shadow crosses the line, and the angle from the stick to the crossing points, but when you join the points, the line will always be parallel to the spin of the earth. The magnetic poles are another matter entirely. They are close to the earths spin axis, but constantly slowly moving around, which is why magnetic north, for most of us, is not the same as true north. Then occasionally at random times, typically hundreds of thousands of years apart, the magnetic poles switch over between the arctic and antarctic. If you look at a compass after that happens it will indicate that *magnetic* north is in the antarctic, so based on that the sun will rise in the west, but that's only by the compass, and in fact the sun will continue to rise in the same direction it always has. So you can build your east facing house, and it will stay facing east. Scorpianon - facing east and still not enlightened
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I was not making that assumption. But I was making a different false assumption based on my trying to piece things together from different posts. I finally did some reading. I think I got now. And can demonstrate with two pencils how the equinox rotates around the full 360 degrees of the zodiac, over 26000 years and how the angle of the earth's axis relative to the sun is shifts slightly, a few degrees as you say during the precesson, but remains about 23.5 degrees +- 2-3 degrees depending on where it is in the precesson cycle. Thus the earths access does change slightly in relaationship to the sun, maybe 2 degrees max in 13000 years. But 2 degrees are within the range of tolerance of SV (I believe). And the shift for a 1000 yr old building will be less than .2 degrees. So Peter is right, there is a shift. He is wrong in the magnitude -- its way too small to matter. No need to rebuild your 1000 year old SV dynastal mansion. And true east is always where the sun rises on the spring or vernal equinox. And if you marked the spot on the horizon today, over the span of 26,000 years, it would be the same spot +-2 degrees. What will change are the time of year the vernal equinox will occur and the position of the sun relative to constellations. Vernal equinox is now in March, and the sun is in Pisces when this occurs. In 13000 years, the vernal equinox will be in September, and the sun will be in Virgo. I am not sure how this effect spring break. But the sun will still be rising in the east, dead set on your marker (+-2 degrees). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
Eureka once more! --- anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But whatever precession has to do with proper Vastu, it has *nothing* to do with the sun rising in the west. And your view contradicts Peter's position. I seriously doubt Peter was saying precession results in the sun eventually rising in the west. What's off about your mental model, I strongly suspect, is that you think what he's saying *implies* this; precession certainly does not. Whether precession throws proper Vastu off, I'm not sure; but if it does, it would be within a relatively small range--about 24 degrees--and only temporarily: every 26,000 years, approximately, the circle described by the earth's axis is complete, and it's back to its starting point. Ok. I may have not gotten the full picture of precession, the 24 degree part. Ok, visualizing it, I think I get it. At 180 degrees of precession, the relationship / tilt of the earth to sun is changed by 24 degrees. Yes, I think that's right. Yet during the 26000 year precesson cycle, the planets, including the sun, travel the full 360 degrees of the zodiac. Thats the visual model I have not captured yet, to capture these two things. See the link I posted in response to Vaj--that may help. I've got both models in mind, but I can't put them together. I don't believe the difference between the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs is at all related to Vastu, though, except insofar as the precession of the equinoxes is related to both the differences in the Zodiacs and to Vastu (and I'm not sure it's related to Vastu after all--see below). Regardless, my quesion is the same -- but its just the effect is less, about 12th. a) in 13000 years, does the sun rise 24 degrees off the point earth it now rises (at same day of the year)? It's either 24 or 12 degrees. I *think* it's 24. In other words, b) If a house is facing the sun properly now, will it be facing the sun properly in 13000 years. See the message Rick just posted from somebody else. I think he's right, that due east is an earth-based direction and doesn't ever change no matter what the earth's axis does--which would mean Peter is wrong, but in a different way than you had thought. If Peter's right and Rick's poster is wrong, though, a house that's facing the sun properly now would be facing the sun properly again in *26,000* years, not 13,000. I think... Thirteen thousand years would be the maximum variance. And for practical purposes, even if the correct orientation of the sun does shift over time, its about 1 degree every 500 years. As I remember SV tolerances are like 2 degrees. So a building is good to go for 1000 years or so. Here's my 2 cents... East and West are determined by the spin of the earth, not by the relationship of the earth and sun or stars. The earth spins about the axis defined by the poles, and that doesn't change - the north pole is always at the same place in the arctic, and the south pole is always at the same place in the antarctic. So long as the earth spins about that axis, the sun will always rise in the east, but at a varying latitude as Vaj said. That higher or lower latitude will change the length of the day, but it won't change which way is east. If you use Vaj's stick and circle method for finding which way is east, the latitude of the sun will determine the times at which the shadow crosses the line, and the angle from the stick to the crossing points, but when you join the points, the line will always be parallel to the spin of the earth. The magnetic poles are another matter entirely. They are close to the earths spin axis, but constantly slowly moving around, which is why magnetic north, for most of us, is not the same as true north. Then occasionally at random times, typically hundreds of thousands of years apart, the magnetic poles switch over between the arctic and antarctic. If you look at a compass after that happens it will indicate that *magnetic* north is in the antarctic, so based on that the sun will rise in the west, but that's only by the compass, and in fact the sun will continue to rise in the same direction it always has. So you can build your east facing house, and it will stay facing east. Scorpianon - facing east and still
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 30, 2006, at 11:50 AM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: My main question still holds. Does the orientation of a building to the sun really change at that rate? Like pyramids, 4000 yrs / 500 is about 8 degrees. Has the orientation of the pyramids to the sun changed 8 degrees? A recent poster says no. If he is correct, then Peter's point about SV getting out of whack over time is invalid. No, it does not. You would be operating on a false assumption and that gross assumption is that since the earth's axis is currently about 23.5 degrees IIRC, that it goes back to the zero position! There *is* no zero position, nor did anyone say there was. The wobble of the axis describes a circle. After 26,000 years, the axis is *zero degrees* of that circle from where it started 26,000 years previously. That zero point is just where you started tracking the axis wobble. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...but what happens when the universe implodes back into a point singularity? Didn't that already happen this morning? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...but what happens when the universe implodes back into a point singularity? Didn't that already happen this morning? Ha-Ha!!! you noticed too? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip What will change are the time of year the vernal equinox will occur and the position of the sun relative to constellations. Vernal equinox is now in March, and the sun is in Pisces when this occurs. In 13000 years, the vernal equinox will be in September, and the sun will be in Virgo. Er, no, the vernal equinox will still (always) occur in March. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
On Jan 30, 2006, at 3:52 PM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 30, 2006, at 11:50 AM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: My main question still holds. Does the orientation of a building to the sun really change at that rate? Like pyramids, 4000 yrs / 500 is about 8 degrees. Has the orientation of the pyramids to the sun changed 8 degrees? A recent poster says no. If he is correct, then Peter's point about SV getting out of whack over time is invalid. No, it does not. You would be operating on a false assumption and that gross assumption is that since the earth's axis is currently about 23.5 degrees IIRC, that it goes back to the zero position! There *is* no "zero" position, nor did anyone say there was. The wobble of the axis describes a circle. After 26,000 years, the axis is *zero degrees* of that circle from where it started 26,000 years previously. That "zero" point is just where you started tracking the axis wobble. This is not what I was referring to. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 30, 2006, at 3:52 PM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 30, 2006, at 11:50 AM, doctor_gabby_savy wrote: My main question still holds. Does the orientation of a building to the sun really change at that rate? Like pyramids, 4000 yrs / 500 is about 8 degrees. Has the orientation of the pyramids to the sun changed 8 degrees? A recent poster says no. If he is correct, then Peter's point about SV getting out of whack over time is invalid. No, it does not. You would be operating on a false assumption and that gross assumption is that since the earth's axis is currently about 23.5 degrees IIRC, that it goes back to the zero position! There *is* no zero position, nor did anyone say there was. The wobble of the axis describes a circle. After 26,000 years, the axis is *zero degrees* of that circle from where it started 26,000 years previously. That zero point is just where you started tracking the axis wobble. This is not what I was referring to. Yes, that, of course, was my point. That's the only zero anybody's been talking about here. There was no such false assumption as you claim. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 30, 2006, at 3:52 PM, authfriend wrote: snip. +++ The problems that one would notice in one lifetime that were caused by the details in the previous posts would not be cause for alarm making them relatively irrelevant. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip What will change are the time of year the vernal equinox will occur and the position of the sun relative to constellations. Vernal equinox is now in March, and the sun is in Pisces when this occurs. In 13000 years, the vernal equinox will be in September, and the sun will be in Virgo. Er, no, the vernal equinox will still (always) occur in March. Well I will bet you a quart of soma that in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September. Lets meet then and see. In the mean time, which of the following points of my logic do you disagree with: 1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. 2) precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. 3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sun will always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus the precession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east or the path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.) 4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years. In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Aires moving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the age of aquarius). 5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full circle around the constellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position in each constallation. 6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun (due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its eleptic path around the sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winter the hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days are shorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours. 7) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels to its opposite constallation every 13000 years. In 13000 years, the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will be in Virgo, 180 degrees from its present position in Pisces. 8) When the sun is in virgo, around September, the tilt of the earth relative to its path around the sun gives fall weather for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather in the southern hemisphere. 9) Thus, in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September, fall weather will prevail for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather will be in the southern hemisphere. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip What will change are the time of year the vernal equinox will occur and the position of the sun relative to constellations. Vernal equinox is now in March, and the sun is in Pisces when this occurs. In 13000 years, the vernal equinox will be in September, and the sun will be in Virgo. Er, no, the vernal equinox will still (always) occur in March. Well I will bet you a quart of soma that in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September. Lets meet then and see. In the mean time, which of the following points of my logic do you disagree with: Sorry, yer gonna hafta sort it out yourself. 1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. 2) precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. 3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sun will always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus the precession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east or the path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.) 4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years. In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Aires moving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the age of aquarius). 5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full circle around the constellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position in each constallation. 6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun (due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its eleptic path around the sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winter the hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days are shorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours. 7) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels to its opposite constallation every 13000 years. In 13000 years, the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will be in Virgo, 180 degrees from its present position in Pisces. 8) When the sun is in virgo, around September, the tilt of the earth relative to its path around the sun gives fall weather for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather in the southern hemisphere. 9) Thus, in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September, fall weather will prevail for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather will be in the southern hemisphere. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip What will change are the time of year the vernal equinox will occur and the position of the sun relative to constellations. Vernal equinox is now in March, and the sun is in Pisces when this occurs. In 13000 years, the vernal equinox will be in September, and the sun will be in Virgo. Er, no, the vernal equinox will still (always) occur in March. Well I will bet you a quart of soma that in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September. Lets meet then and see. In the mean time, which of the following points of my logic do you disagree with: Sorry, yer gonna hafta sort it out yourself. The vernal equinox is in September in 13000 years. Its not that complex. If you are struggling with the September vernal equinox, I speculate that you have not groked what precession of the equinox means. If you have a cogent argument as to why you believe it is not, please post. (Just saying it is eternally in is not a cogent argument. :)) 1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. 2) means precesion of the equinoxthat the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. 3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sun will always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus the precession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east or the path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.) 4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years. In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Aires moving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the age of aquarius). 5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full circle around the constellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position in each constallation. 6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun (due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its eleptic path around the sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winter the hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days are shorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours. 7) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels to its opposite constallation every 13000 years. In 13000 years, the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will be in Virgo, 180 degrees from its present position in Pisces. 8) When the sun is in virgo, around September, the tilt of the earth relative to its path around the sun gives fall weather for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather in the southern hemisphere. 9) Thus, in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September, fall weather will prevail for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather will be in the southern hemisphere. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip What will change are the time of year the vernal equinox will occur and the position of the sun relative to constellations. Vernal equinox is now in March, and the sun is in Pisces when this occurs. In 13000 years, the vernal equinox will be in September, and the sun will be in Virgo. Er, no, the vernal equinox will still (always) occur in March. Well I will bet you a quart of soma that in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September. Lets meet then and see. In the mean time, which of the following points of my logic do you disagree with: Sorry, yer gonna hafta sort it out yourself. The vernal equinox is in September in 13000 years. Its not that complex. If you are struggling with the September vernal equinox, I speculate that you have not groked what precession of the equinox means. If you have a cogent argument as to why you believe it is not, please post. (Just saying it is eternally in March is not a cogent argument. :) ) 1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. 2) means precesion of the equinoxthat the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. 3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sun will always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus the precession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east or the path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.) 4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years. In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Aires moving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the age of aquarius). 5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full circle around the constellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position in each constallation. 6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun (due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its eleptic path around the sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winter the hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days are shorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours. 7) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels to its opposite constallation every 13000 years. In 13000 years, the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will be in Virgo, 180 degrees from its present position in Pisces. 8) When the sun is in virgo, around September, the tilt of the earth relative to its path around the sun gives fall weather for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather in the southern hemisphere. 9) Thus, in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September, fall weather will prevail for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather will be in the southern hemisphere. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
Well I will bet you a quart of soma that in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September. Lets meet then and see. No. The sun moves from its lowest point in the sky relative to the earth to its highest point in the sky relative to the earth in six months, from the winter solstice day to the summer solstice day. Half-way through the six months, the sun crosses the mid-point (celestial equator) on its journey northward and that crossing of the mid-point is what the vernal equinox is. The vernal equinox will always be in March in the northern hemisphere and in September in the southern hemisphere. That won't change because of the earth's minor wobbling. --- doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip What will change are the time of year the vernal equinox will occur and the position of the sun relative to constellations. Vernal equinox is now in March, and the sun is in Pisces when this occurs. In 13000 years, the vernal equinox will be in September, and the sun will be in Virgo. Er, no, the vernal equinox will still (always) occur in March. Well I will bet you a quart of soma that in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September. Lets meet then and see. In the mean time, which of the following points of my logic do you disagree with: 1) vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. 2) precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. 3) Even with precession of the equinox, from an earth view, the sun will always rise at due east at the vernal equinox, thus the precession does not effect orientations of buildings to true east or the path of the sun relative to buildings (from a year of observations starting at the vernal equinox.) 4) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels through each constellation about every 26000/12 = 2160 years. In 60 BC, the sun at vernal equinox was just on the cusp of Aires moving into Pisces. Around 2100, the the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will move from Pisces to Aquarius (aka the age of aquarius). 5) The sun annually transits 360 degree , a full circle around the constellations. Each month roughly corresponds to the suns position in each constallation. 6) In summer months, the hemisphere one habitats is closer to the sun (due to its 23.5 degree tilt -- relative to its eleptic path around the sun). Thus in summer it is warmer and days are longer. In Winter the hemisphere is further from the sun, thus its colder and days are shorter. At the equinoxes, matched longitudes in each hemishperes are the same distance from the sun. Day and night are each 12 hours. 7) The precession - the postion of the sun at vernal equinox -- travels to its opposite constallation every 13000 years. In 13000 years, the postion of the sun at vernal equinox will be in Virgo, 180 degrees from its present position in Pisces. 8) When the sun is in virgo, around September, the tilt of the earth relative to its path around the sun gives fall weather for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather in the southern hemisphere. 9) Thus, in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September, fall weather will prevail for the northern hemisphere, and spring weather will be in the southern hemisphere. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I will bet you a quart of soma that in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September. Lets meet then and see. No. The sun moves from its lowest point in the sky relative to the earth to its highest point in the sky relative to the earth in six months, from the winter solstice day to the summer solstice day. Half-way through the six months, the sun crosses the mid-point (celestial equator) on its journey northward and that crossing of the mid-point is what the vernal equinox is. The vernal equinox will always be in March in the northern hemisphere and in September in the southern hemisphere. It will be for quite some time. It won't be in 13000 years. That won't change because of the earth's minor wobbling. The 26000 year cycle of the precession of equinox can hardly be termed minor wobbling. You are confusing precession with nutation. How exactly do you define precession of the equinox? I define it as follows: Precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. Vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Finding True East
It will be for quite some time. It won't be in 13000 years. How's 8000 years? Is that enough proof? Link to here and change maximum year to and yearly increment to 100 and you will find that the vernal equinox in 9900 will be on March 21st. http://aom.giss.nasa.gov/srvernal.html You are confusing precession with nutation I have been an astronomy buff for 38 years and am not confused easily. I leave it to those who know little about the subject to be confused. --- doctor_gabby_savy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I will bet you a quart of soma that in 13000 years the vernal equinox will be in September. Lets meet then and see. No. The sun moves from its lowest point in the sky relative to the earth to its highest point in the sky relative to the earth in six months, from the winter solstice day to the summer solstice day. Half-way through the six months, the sun crosses the mid-point (celestial equator) on its journey northward and that crossing of the mid-point is what the vernal equinox is. The vernal equinox will always be in March in the northern hemisphere and in September in the southern hemisphere. It will be for quite some time. It won't be in 13000 years. That won't change because of the earth's minor wobbling. The 26000 year cycle of the precession of equinox can hardly be termed minor wobbling. You are confusing precession with nutation. How exactly do you define precession of the equinox? I define it as follows: Precesion of the equinox means that the position of the sun at the vernal equinox, relative to the constallations, retreats one degree every 72 years, making a full cycle around the zodiac of 12 constellations every 26000 years. Vernal equinox occurs once a year when day and night lengths are equal and when the sun rises at true east. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
