Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
This issue of open-ended vs. tightly scripted RPing interests me. My style as a game master is to set the scene, create significant non-player characters with their own agendas, some of whom act off stage independent of, or in reaction to the player characters, but who may not meet them until a climactic scene. Once I've wound this world up and set the scene, I release the PCs into the world. I then regard my job as deciding how the world reacts to their actions. They are the protagonists of this story after all. Now that is human role-playing. I've never seen a computer-mediated game come anywhere close to the richness of a human-mediated game, even in the MMORPG world. There is always a narrowing of objectives to fit a restrictive model. This makes sense in a paradigm that demands complete determinism for each scenario, where every action must be anticipated by the game designer. Without massive hardware support, you aren't going to see emergent behavior out of this deterministic model, which is the main reason human-mediated games are still more satisfying. I'm not expecting Tom to break this problem, although if he has ways around it, I'm so there for playing and ultimately purchasing the game. Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
hmmm I'd be happy to install all the dependencies on my system. I have dotnet 1.1 to 3.5 with all service packs. I have dx9 I have xna3 for entombed I have I think some my sql addins for this to. So if it was easy enough I'd load all the dependancies. At 03:27 p.m. 16/07/2009, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Like I mentioned earlier it really comes down to a matter of logistics. It is one thing to create a side-scroller like Mysteries of the Ancients, and quite another when designing a detailed roll playing game. With a game like Mysteries of the ancients you have perhaps 14enemies on a level, most of a similar type or class, and equally as many special items. In terms of management that is a manageable amount of things to store in memory, and keep track of. Especially, since everything is pretty much standard throughout the entire game. With a fantasy game book style roll playing game such as Sryth there is much more to keep track of. Each and every weapon could be different in terms of stats, quality, and may or may not have magic powers. In a game like Mysteries of the Ancients you only have to worry about one sword. In a roll playing game there could be hundreds of swords ranging from short swords, long swords, to broad swords, and so on. They could be common, sturdy, well crafted, exceptional, magical, etc. You need to have a way to store all of that information without keeping it all in memory. The easiest way to do that is use a third-party database, and perform look ups when necessary. Yeah, I could technically do the same thing in an off line version, but it seams to be the more difficult way of handling it. Instead of a nice SQL database I store all of that info in a text file and open and read those files as necessary. It just seams to me to be a quick and dirty way of handling it without the advantages of a true database on hand. Smile. shaun everiss wrote: Well an online game is all and good, but I would probably take offline if I could. the main issue is that there are a load of capped connections, and going over that probably is not nice. although in theory the php html games take vary little data I just thought I would point out that fact. In the next few months or so its possible either my bill or speed will change depending on the ability of me to afford the unlimited connection I am currently on who's prices is set to rise from 50 to 60 dollars. This may mean I will have to either reduce my connection to a capped one say 25gb which is still a fair ammount but others use the system to or change to a cheaper isp which will probably have a smaller cap all in all I'd prefur some offline play to. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
well I don't care for an open ended online game I don't have all the time or rather the wish to spend all my time on an online game. At 07:16 p.m. 16/07/2009, you wrote: This issue of open-ended vs. tightly scripted RPing interests me. My style as a game master is to set the scene, create significant non-player characters with their own agendas, some of whom act off stage independent of, or in reaction to the player characters, but who may not meet them until a climactic scene. Once I've wound this world up and set the scene, I release the PCs into the world. I then regard my job as deciding how the world reacts to their actions. They are the protagonists of this story after all. Now that is human role-playing. I've never seen a computer-mediated game come anywhere close to the richness of a human-mediated game, even in the MMORPG world. There is always a narrowing of objectives to fit a restrictive model. This makes sense in a paradigm that demands complete determinism for each scenario, where every action must be anticipated by the game designer. Without massive hardware support, you aren't going to see emergent behavior out of this deterministic model, which is the main reason human-mediated games are still more satisfying. I'm not expecting Tom to break this problem, although if he has ways around it, I'm so there for playing and ultimately purchasing the game. Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi Chris. while I agree the responsiveness of a human gm to the choices of players is indeed something which couldn't be mimmicked by any computer program, I do think there must always be some sort of structure in the world or situation presented to the player anyway, symply because of the nature of the relation betwene the players and the world. the world and it's npcs are completely under the control of the gm, and have to respond to the players in a way which is some degree progressive. I'm not talking about specifically tightly scripted games, - the game can be as free for player action as possible, but there must be some sort of progression in events or otherwise the players will just stumble around getting randomly board. While a computer program certainly can't have the responsiveness to all the actions a player might choose which a human would, imho it could, - assuming the programmer is a sufficiently skilled author, have this aspect of narative progression. To give a basically symple example of what I mean, the players arrive in a village. The gm must have an idea of the history of certain aspects and characters of this village. Suppose for instance it's under attack from a goblin hoard. The players will be told of certain things which are wrong in the village and (if they're observant), will investigate as to why. They may have several courses of action at that point, attempt to slaughter the goblins themselves, go and fetch help from elsewhere, organize and train the villagers for defense etc, but ultimately, the basic presence of the hoard implies that the players do something about it, - engage in a story concerning it. While the players choices of what to do in the situation may be fairly open, the situation itself implies a narative structure, simply on the basis that players being players, and games being what they are, they'll want to do something about the hoard. This for me is the essance of an rpg as i said, playing the protagonist in a series of events and situations which form some sort of story. Of course the more choice I have about those situations the better, - but ultimately the situations have to be set up in such a way to provide some sort of satisfying narative cohesion somewhere along the line. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
yeah same here. I'm personally more into offline gaming. I never liked online games that much, though the fighting fantasy gamebooks are cool there you get long descriptions and then links of what you want to do instad of something like a table: peter. mage. 31 hp out of 45. 11 mana out of 20. and so on and so on. On 7/16/09, shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz wrote: well I don't care for an open ended online game I don't have all the time or rather the wish to spend all my time on an online game. At 07:16 p.m. 16/07/2009, you wrote: This issue of open-ended vs. tightly scripted RPing interests me. My style as a game master is to set the scene, create significant non-player characters with their own agendas, some of whom act off stage independent of, or in reaction to the player characters, but who may not meet them until a climactic scene. Once I've wound this world up and set the scene, I release the PCs into the world. I then regard my job as deciding how the world reacts to their actions. They are the protagonists of this story after all. Now that is human role-playing. I've never seen a computer-mediated game come anywhere close to the richness of a human-mediated game, even in the MMORPG world. There is always a narrowing of objectives to fit a restrictive model. This makes sense in a paradigm that demands complete determinism for each scenario, where every action must be anticipated by the game designer. Without massive hardware support, you aren't going to see emergent behavior out of this deterministic model, which is the main reason human-mediated games are still more satisfying. I'm not expecting Tom to break this problem, although if he has ways around it, I'm so there for playing and ultimately purchasing the game. Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible?
sinse i keep getting utterly lost in the warriors 2 dungeons, I've gbeen trying to discuss setting up a coordinates system with the gm. His initial suggestion of an aski map wasn't great, and after I asked about in room coordinates I got the following charming response: with the system i have today im sorry to tell.. there are hundreds of different dungeons, so writing such things would be impossible, writing a code that pickedup what you can see in a dungeon is not that easy ider im affraid. none can se the howl dungeon, its covered in fog of war, so you can only se where you have resently been. this makes it hard as hell to just tell how to get from one point to another in some smart way. best regardS/Zac Needless to say, I won't be playing the game anymore, sinse I'm at the stage now where to do anything new I absolutely need to do dungeons to progress in the game, and I'll be making a note of this on the audiogames.net warriors 2 page as well. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Super Deekout queries
1. I don't think you can. 2. get 2 million on normal and you will get the cheats. On 7/16/09, Chris Hallsworth christopher...@googlemail.com wrote: Hello all, Two questions on Super Deekout for you. 1. How do you clear the top ten scores? 2. Could someone please send me the cheats for the game? Thanks in advance. -- Chris Hallsworth e-mail: christopher...@googlemail.com MSN: ch9...@hotmail.com Skype: chrishallsworth7266 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- msn oriol_gs...@hotmail.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi Dark,
Well, when I wrote that article I was actually thinking more of
designing roll playing games in general rather than my roll playing game
specifically. In any case I understand what you are saying, and I could
use text files to store stats, weapons, armor, and other items, but
there are advantages to using an actual database for this. Plus,
logistics asside, programming in C, C++, C-Sharp, Java, etc is also a
lot more time consuming. Consider the two examples below.
C Example
// Header includes
#include conio.h
#include stdio.h
#include stdlib.h
// Function prototypes
void LoadScreen(int);
void GetInput(int);
// Load and show the game screen.
void LoadScreen(int screen)
{
// Clear the game screen
system(cls);
// If this is screen 1091
// print the screen
if (screen == 1091)
{
printf((%d)\n, screen);
printf(You are standing in a north/south passage.\n);
printf(You can hear the sound of dripping water up ahead.\n);
printf(What would you like to do?\n);
printf(Head North (n)\n);
printf(Head South(s)\n);
}
// Wait for the player to press a key
GetInput(screen);
}
// Get keyboard input
// for the current game screen
void GetInput(int screen)
{
// Wait for a key press
char key = getch();
// If this is screen 1091
// handle keyboard input
if (screen == 1091)
{
// Head north
if (key == 'n')
{
LoadScreen(1092);
}
// Head south
if (key == 's')
{
LoadScreen(1090);
}
// The user pressed an invalid choice
else
{
system(cls);
printf(Error! Please press n or s.\n);
printf(Press any key to continue.\n);
getch();
LoadScreen(1091);
}
}
}
html/php example
html
head
titleLegends of Etheria/title
/head
body
p align=center(1091)/p
p align=leftYou are standing in a north/south passage. You can hear
the sound of dripping water from up ahead. What would you like to do?/p
bra href=1092.phpHead North/a
bra href=1090.phpHead South/a
?php
$options = file_get_contents('options.php');
$stats = file_get_contents('stats.php');
print $stats;
print $options;
?
/body
/html
What is probably quite clear in these two examples is my second example
was far easier and quicker to create than the first example. While C is
powerful it is not really suited to the game book style adventure.
Assuming there were 1091 screens I'd have to do the same thing 1,091
times. In such an instance using html and php makes the job much easier
to perform.
Smile.
dark wrote:
Hi Tom.
Well I'm fully in favor of the frequent updates etc which a php script
game could give, and I'm glad your stil thinking single player even if
the logistics are much easier online, pluss, it'd probably be seen as
more reasonable of you to charge for an online game in some way than
for a downloadable text rpg, - though personally I'd be willing to
pay for such a game if it fulfilled my needs.
But being as your also running a business (and to maintain the server
costs of the game), either a subscription or account update fee for
the game to gain full access would be seen as more reasonable by the
public in general, - I know the huge amounts of markiting
resources the commercial interactive fiction company malinch have to
put into selling their games.
Btw, not to quibble over your decision (which I completely understand
the logic of), but Angband, the roguelike I mentioned which will
hopefully be having full accessibility features added in the future,
has taken precisely the opposite approach.
I'm not certain what language the game is written in, but there are
certainly several versions (windows mac os), and even source code for
self compiling.
When new versions come out, they are symply stuck on the website and
people are expected to update. Everything in the game, the
thousand or so monsters, the classes, items, and huuge amount of
complex mechanics are contained in a series of text files which are
easy to modify (one reason Angband has so many varients developed by
other people). There is even a text file containing sound and display
options.
Obviously there are some differences, the most notable being that
while Angband certainly uses lots of text for a roguelike (one reason
why I'm fairly convinced it can be made fully accessible in the first
place given some extra warning messages and coordinates), it does have
a basically spacial interface with characters moving around a grid
based, randomly generated dungeon rather than the environment being
described gamebook style.
Stil, in terms of pure mechanics, of which Angband has a truly
mind bogling amount, everything is run through text file databases.
this isn't to say your decision is wrong, or to argue in the least,
- as I said I can fully follow your logic, I just thought it was
an interesting contrast, and sinse we're discussing rpgs I thought I'd
throw it out for considderation.
Beware the Grue!
Dark.
---
Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Point taken Tom on the text front, - I actually understood your php
example pretty well given my knolidge of html, ;D.
I suppose the crytical difference here is with Angband's presentation.
It doesn't need to worry about presenting several thousand screens of actual
text and linking them via key presses or whatever, it just needs to defign a
number of objects, - player, monsters, npcs, walls doors and items which
are presented randomly on a grid pattern with certain rules and attributes
attached to them, and set up the various reactions for what happenes when
two of these objects interact, rather than completely rewrite all in game
screens for each game event as happens in a gamebook style game or your
example.
I was just particularly interested in the use of text files, sinse that's
one of Angband's actual strengths, and the reason players have been able to
create so many different varients and alternative versions of the game so
easily.
Your example though also makes me wonder about early 80's rpgs like Eamon
and fallthru and how much doing they must have taken to create.
Beware the rue!
Dark;.
- Original Message -
From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com
To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi Dark,
Well, when I wrote that article I was actually thinking more of designing
roll playing games in general rather than my roll playing game
specifically. In any case I understand what you are saying, and I could
use text files to store stats, weapons, armor, and other items, but there
are advantages to using an actual database for this. Plus, logistics
asside, programming in C, C++, C-Sharp, Java, etc is also a lot more time
consuming. Consider the two examples below.
C Example
// Header includes
#include conio.h
#include stdio.h
#include stdlib.h
// Function prototypes
void LoadScreen(int);
void GetInput(int);
// Load and show the game screen.
void LoadScreen(int screen)
{
// Clear the game screen
system(cls);
// If this is screen 1091
// print the screen
if (screen == 1091)
{
printf((%d)\n, screen);
printf(You are standing in a north/south passage.\n);
printf(You can hear the sound of dripping water up ahead.\n);
printf(What would you like to do?\n);
printf(Head North (n)\n);
printf(Head South(s)\n);
}
// Wait for the player to press a key
GetInput(screen);
}
// Get keyboard input
// for the current game screen
void GetInput(int screen)
{
// Wait for a key press
char key = getch();
// If this is screen 1091
// handle keyboard input
if (screen == 1091)
{
// Head north
if (key == 'n')
{
LoadScreen(1092);
}
// Head south
if (key == 's')
{
LoadScreen(1090);
}
// The user pressed an invalid choice
else
{
system(cls);
printf(Error! Please press n or s.\n);
printf(Press any key to continue.\n);
getch();
LoadScreen(1091);
}
}
}
html/php example
html
head
titleLegends of Etheria/title
/head
body
p align=center(1091)/p
p align=leftYou are standing in a north/south passage. You can hear
the sound of dripping water from up ahead. What would you like to do?/p
bra href=1092.phpHead North/a
bra href=1090.phpHead South/a
?php
$options = file_get_contents('options.php');
$stats = file_get_contents('stats.php');
print $stats;
print $options;
?
/body
/html
What is probably quite clear in these two examples is my second example
was far easier and quicker to create than the first example. While C is
powerful it is not really suited to the game book style adventure.
Assuming there were 1091 screens I'd have to do the same thing 1,091
times. In such an instance using html and php makes the job much easier to
perform.
Smile.
dark wrote:
Hi Tom.
Well I'm fully in favor of the frequent updates etc which a php script
game could give, and I'm glad your stil thinking single player even if
the logistics are much easier online, pluss, it'd probably be seen as
more reasonable of you to charge for an online game in some way than for
a downloadable text rpg, - though personally I'd be willing to pay
for such a game if it fulfilled my needs.
But being as your also running a business (and to maintain the server
costs of the game), either a subscription or account update fee for the
game to gain full access would be seen as more reasonable by the public
in general, - I know the huge amounts of markiting resources the
commercial interactive fiction company malinch have to put into selling
their games.
Btw, not to quibble over your decision (which I completely understand the
logic of), but Angband, the roguelike I mentioned which will hopefully be
having full accessibility features added in the future, has taken
precisely the opposite approach.
I'm not certain what language the game is written in, but there are
certainly several versions (windows mac os), and even source code for
self compiling.
When new versions come
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi, Quote First, I don't think I'd classify Angband or any of the Roguelikes as an RPG. These feel more like tactical simulations with a lot of details added End quote I agree. I'm not thinking of a roguelike adventure such as Angband or Ancient Domains of Mystery. What I am thinking of is a game book style game play along the lines of Sryth. My game world will be full of towns, cities, forests, mountains, and have an open ended story line. The game needs to be written more like an interactive book instead of one large dungeon. Quote One big advantage of what Tom is proposing would be the possibility of user-extensibility. As I understand it, the game design would be completely modular, so it should be possible to bolt on new modules fairly easily. End quote Yes and no. It is true that using ascripting language like php would make the task of updating the game, bolting on new modules, etc much easier. However, I am not as open to the idea of end users just bolting on their own modules themselves. For one thing they would have to have full access to the USA Games web server, and for security reasons I can't allow that. Plus once I create the core game scripts they'll need to follow whatever guidelines and coding conventions I use in order to keep the code clean and bug free. Finally, there is the problem with copyrights. If you or someone sends me an adventure submission, a npc character, whatever I would have legal right to assume copyright control of that story or character. However, some people may object to that, or they may think that by contributing x number of adventures entitles them to a discount on the game subscription. So I'm not really sure where I stand on this idea of end user extensibility. Quote I'm not sure how to translate all of these thoughts into a playable computer-mediated game. The questions transcend the medium and would be faced no matter how you decide to deploy the game. I don't know how ambitious you want to be Tom, but I would be interested in being a part of the creation of things, if you're looking for any collaborators. I have 25 years of IRL role-playing experience, both playing and running games. End quote At this point I'm really just hoping to work on the games story and have 10 to 20 adventures to start with. Like Sryth, Kingdom of Loathing, whatever it is going to start out very small and gradually grow as time passes. The main thing I need is adventure ideas, names for npc characters, names for towns, cities, etc. I have some written down, and more of this kind of stuff would never hurt. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] latest issue of Audyssey?
The latest one I have is issue 54. I thought that one was coming out shortly, and that was a few months back. I haven't received any. If I missed or did not receive the latest issue, where can I download it rather than just view it online? Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
I agree Alan, a scifi rpg would be great, particularly with the large amount of worlds available. But one step at a time though. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch Hi Tom, It looks like a pretty good idea. I can't pretend to understand all the technical mumbo jumbo, but it looks to me like you make a game, sell it, and charge a subscription to keep playing it online, like Ever Quest or World of Warcraft. It sounds highly customizable for programmer and gamers alike and so you might have a nice RPG to add to your catalog. Personally, I like the stand alone, turn based RPG, with a major storyline. I like to make one or more characters with lots of options and customization, who go from a weak to strong progression in power and items, solving miniquests, and challenging tactical battles ending up with the climatic showdown. I am not sure how that lines up with your vision, because most online things I have toyed with seem to be simply, kill, loot, repeat when necesary. Lastly, I just wanted to put a bug in the ear of you and everyone reading, I would love to see the turn based rPG game evolve into other genres. It would be neat to have science fiction, Post Apocalyptic, western, supernatural, or modern day based RPG. al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Of course, your right. One thing at a time. al - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch I agree Alan, a scifi rpg would be great, particularly with the large amount of worlds available. But one step at a time though. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Allan Thompson allan1.thomp...@cox.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch Hi Tom, It looks like a pretty good idea. I can't pretend to understand all the technical mumbo jumbo, but it looks to me like you make a game, sell it, and charge a subscription to keep playing it online, like Ever Quest or World of Warcraft. It sounds highly customizable for programmer and gamers alike and so you might have a nice RPG to add to your catalog. Personally, I like the stand alone, turn based RPG, with a major storyline. I like to make one or more characters with lots of options and customization, who go from a weak to strong progression in power and items, solving miniquests, and challenging tactical battles ending up with the climatic showdown. I am not sure how that lines up with your vision, because most online things I have toyed with seem to be simply, kill, loot, repeat when necesary. Lastly, I just wanted to put a bug in the ear of you and everyone reading, I would love to see the turn based rPG game evolve into other genres. It would be neat to have science fiction, Post Apocalyptic, western, supernatural, or modern day based RPG. al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Given all the discussion about RPG mechanics on here I just figured I'd throw in my two cents. Personally I think the use of RPG has taken to a broader scope. There's everything ranging from your classic RPG, using pen and paper, you and your friends creating all the characters and scennarios and playing through them, to what more modern gamers would consider an RPG, a party-based game where you create none of the characters and for the most part the game is very close-ended with a major storyline already in place, bosses to fight, quests to perform, goals to conquer. You also have your action RPG or ARPG, which are becoming more and more advanced as technology becomes more powerful. Its become a very broad category of games. Having said this I think that a gamebook style RPG will be one of the most difficult to create and really satisfy everyone. Take sryth for example. I am, and always have been a combat fanatic. I'm a martial arts enthusiast in real life, and if a book doesn't have an action scene every few chapters, its pretty much garunteed I probably won't like it. Therefore, sryth's combat system is highly disappointing, its simply a series of dice rolls which get very, very tedius after a while with minimal description and detail, even after the battle ends. So far lone wolf has some of the coolest detail to combat I've seen yet. I still play sryth for the exploration and story factor, when it comes up nowadays, but the combat system has always put me off from sryth slightly. The problem here is that you either have to be a combat enthusiast or be willing to go into the realm of unrealism aka final fantasy, later versions of dragon quest to get good techniques and spells and the like going, or the combat falls into the trap of 99% of muds where the unrealistic realism, learning how to bash with a shield or throw a basic kick, for example, becomes irritating. To me, at least. I've also never found random combat to my liking, the entire dice roll system has always bothered me. It makes me think of someone rushing into battle swinging wildly and hoping to god they hit something, rather than a fierce and powerful warrior stalking into battle and striking with careful, measured accuracy as he drives his opponent back and breaks through his defenses. Few games can immitate that, though, and its pretty complex, so its sort of understandable. Then you also have your grinder types, who refuse to play an RPG unless there's plenty of stats to grind and goals to reach. Sure you can say there's plenty of number crunchers out there already, but I imagine not all grinders are interested in seeing straight numbers rise, for example, I grind to earn new techniques and spells, to power up my character in preparation for a bonus dungeon, in certain cases to level up other party members so they have a fighting chance in places, etc. I love exploration, but I've always thought that gamebook and RPG mechanics just don't seem to work out very well. I am interested to see how Thomas pulls off the combination of mechanics though. My personal favorite is closer to the mainstream version of RPG's as they stand now, where mostly things are close-ended, with turn-based battles and a major overarching plot and party of characters to control to complete said plot and side quests. This leaves more room for plot and character development in my opinion, because the main character can actually talk rather than just having a line about him telling someone this, or performing that action. And it's a lot less easy to fall into the trap that sryth always, always does with making your character look like he'd flee from his own shadow. I'd love to see something like this done in text form, aka planet gambro only without the very strange humor. I still haven't figured out what it is about text RPG's, no matter how advanced, and making them non-serious or humor-based. Having said all this I'll definitely be checking out thomas's game when it comes out. While I think that gamebook and RPG mechanics clash on general principal just because the style of RPG isn't advanced enough for my tastes, the exploration factor is also nice, and some of the scenes can be really cool if done right and under certain mechanical conditions, aka using disciplins in lone wolf, skills and powers in sryth. So while its not my prefered style of RPG, I am glad to see another good-sounding text game coming up and will definitely be checking this out. Anyhow I think I've rambled on long enough, hopefully all of this made sense and wasn't too contradictory, its too early in the ... uh ... noon for major thinking just yet. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible?
I will admit spacial memory isn't exactly my forte, however the clear access difference betwene having a full graphical map which shows you precisely where you've been in a dungeon, and just having a choice of directions of where to go in each room (which are very generically described so there's no way of telling your position from that), should be obvious. It's not the size of the dungeons I mind, it's this total lack of information, and the unwillingness of the Gm to even Countinance any sort of access suggestion, especially after I've had some good responses from him on things like labeling in game buttons. Obviously accessibility is something which is okay, so long as it doesn't actually involve doing anything. That's why I'm not precisely happy about this, and why I'm considering a correct response. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Shadow Dragon elementalult...@hotmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? For the record, I've never had any trouble with navigating the warriors2 dungeon system, it just takes some patience, some basic spacial memory skill and a bit of strategic planning, especially for the bigger dungeons. Sure they're not as cut and dried as the comparitively small sryth dungeons, but I don't think it warrants this harsh of a response. -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:21 AM To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? sinse i keep getting utterly lost in the warriors 2 dungeons, I've gbeen trying to discuss setting up a coordinates system with the gm. His initial suggestion of an aski map wasn't great, and after I asked about in room coordinates I got the following charming response: with the system i have today im sorry to tell.. there are hundreds of different dungeons, so writing such things would be impossible, writing a code that pickedup what you can see in a dungeon is not that easy ider im affraid. none can se the howl dungeon, its covered in fog of war, so you can only se where you have resently been. this makes it hard as hell to just tell how to get from one point to another in some smart way. best regardS/Zac Needless to say, I won't be playing the game anymore, sinse I'm at the stage now where to do anything new I absolutely need to do dungeons to progress in the game, and I'll be making a note of this on the audiogames.net warriors 2 page as well. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible?
you defunitely shouldn't leave it alone now dark. though I don't play the game I know by experience it's better to ask multiple times if you really want, or even need, something from someone. On 7/16/09, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I will admit spacial memory isn't exactly my forte, however the clear access difference betwene having a full graphical map which shows you precisely where you've been in a dungeon, and just having a choice of directions of where to go in each room (which are very generically described so there's no way of telling your position from that), should be obvious. It's not the size of the dungeons I mind, it's this total lack of information, and the unwillingness of the Gm to even Countinance any sort of access suggestion, especially after I've had some good responses from him on things like labeling in game buttons. Obviously accessibility is something which is okay, so long as it doesn't actually involve doing anything. That's why I'm not precisely happy about this, and why I'm considering a correct response. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Shadow Dragon elementalult...@hotmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? For the record, I've never had any trouble with navigating the warriors2 dungeon system, it just takes some patience, some basic spacial memory skill and a bit of strategic planning, especially for the bigger dungeons. Sure they're not as cut and dried as the comparitively small sryth dungeons, but I don't think it warrants this harsh of a response. -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:21 AM To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? sinse i keep getting utterly lost in the warriors 2 dungeons, I've gbeen trying to discuss setting up a coordinates system with the gm. His initial suggestion of an aski map wasn't great, and after I asked about in room coordinates I got the following charming response: with the system i have today im sorry to tell.. there are hundreds of different dungeons, so writing such things would be impossible, writing a code that pickedup what you can see in a dungeon is not that easy ider im affraid. none can se the howl dungeon, its covered in fog of war, so you can only se where you have resently been. this makes it hard as hell to just tell how to get from one point to another in some smart way. best regardS/Zac Needless to say, I won't be playing the game anymore, sinse I'm at the stage now where to do anything new I absolutely need to do dungeons to progress in the game, and I'll be making a note of this on the audiogames.net warriors 2 page as well. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible?
This is the third time of asking about the dungeons. The first got me no answer. The second got me the suggestion about an aski map, and the third got me that response. I'm concerned not just because I've personally invested time (aqnd a small amount of money), in the game, but also on the general accessibility front. I did send a polite E-mail back explaning that single coordinates for each page didn't strike me as a major change, and highlighting the disparity betwene the situation of a Vi and fully sited player, but I'm not certain the Gm is going to be reasonable about this one. Beware the grue! Dark. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: piotr machacz piterm...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? you defunitely shouldn't leave it alone now dark. though I don't play the game I know by experience it's better to ask multiple times if you really want, or even need, something from someone. On 7/16/09, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I will admit spacial memory isn't exactly my forte, however the clear access difference betwene having a full graphical map which shows you precisely where you've been in a dungeon, and just having a choice of directions of where to go in each room (which are very generically described so there's no way of telling your position from that), should be obvious. It's not the size of the dungeons I mind, it's this total lack of information, and the unwillingness of the Gm to even Countinance any sort of access suggestion, especially after I've had some good responses from him on things like labeling in game buttons. Obviously accessibility is something which is okay, so long as it doesn't actually involve doing anything. That's why I'm not precisely happy about this, and why I'm considering a correct response. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Shadow Dragon elementalult...@hotmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? For the record, I've never had any trouble with navigating the warriors2 dungeon system, it just takes some patience, some basic spacial memory skill and a bit of strategic planning, especially for the bigger dungeons. Sure they're not as cut and dried as the comparitively small sryth dungeons, but I don't think it warrants this harsh of a response. -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:21 AM To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? sinse i keep getting utterly lost in the warriors 2 dungeons, I've gbeen trying to discuss setting up a coordinates system with the gm. His initial suggestion of an aski map wasn't great, and after I asked about in room coordinates I got the following charming response: with the system i have today im sorry to tell.. there are hundreds of different dungeons, so writing such things would be impossible, writing a code that pickedup what you can see in a dungeon is not that easy ider im affraid. none can se the howl dungeon, its covered in fog of war, so you can only se where you have resently been. this makes it hard as hell to just tell how to get from one point to another in some smart way. best regardS/Zac Needless to say, I won't be playing the game anymore, sinse I'm at the stage now where to do anything new I absolutely need to do dungeons to progress in the game, and I'll be making a note of this on the audiogames.net warriors 2 page as well. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible?
you can always end in a petition. smile. that's what I did the last time and when I got an explanation here on lisst later on why I wasn't getting a responce, I said, ok, I understand that, but deeply in my heart I feel like I'll give it another go in the near future, either way good luck! On 7/16/09, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: This is the third time of asking about the dungeons. The first got me no answer. The second got me the suggestion about an aski map, and the third got me that response. I'm concerned not just because I've personally invested time (aqnd a small amount of money), in the game, but also on the general accessibility front. I did send a polite E-mail back explaning that single coordinates for each page didn't strike me as a major change, and highlighting the disparity betwene the situation of a Vi and fully sited player, but I'm not certain the Gm is going to be reasonable about this one. Beware the grue! Dark. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: piotr machacz piterm...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? you defunitely shouldn't leave it alone now dark. though I don't play the game I know by experience it's better to ask multiple times if you really want, or even need, something from someone. On 7/16/09, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I will admit spacial memory isn't exactly my forte, however the clear access difference betwene having a full graphical map which shows you precisely where you've been in a dungeon, and just having a choice of directions of where to go in each room (which are very generically described so there's no way of telling your position from that), should be obvious. It's not the size of the dungeons I mind, it's this total lack of information, and the unwillingness of the Gm to even Countinance any sort of access suggestion, especially after I've had some good responses from him on things like labeling in game buttons. Obviously accessibility is something which is okay, so long as it doesn't actually involve doing anything. That's why I'm not precisely happy about this, and why I'm considering a correct response. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Shadow Dragon elementalult...@hotmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? For the record, I've never had any trouble with navigating the warriors2 dungeon system, it just takes some patience, some basic spacial memory skill and a bit of strategic planning, especially for the bigger dungeons. Sure they're not as cut and dried as the comparitively small sryth dungeons, but I don't think it warrants this harsh of a response. -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:21 AM To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? sinse i keep getting utterly lost in the warriors 2 dungeons, I've gbeen trying to discuss setting up a coordinates system with the gm. His initial suggestion of an aski map wasn't great, and after I asked about in room coordinates I got the following charming response: with the system i have today im sorry to tell.. there are hundreds of different dungeons, so writing such things would be impossible, writing a code that pickedup what you can see in a dungeon is not that easy ider im affraid. none can se the howl dungeon, its covered in fog of war, so you can only se where you have resently been. this makes it hard as hell to just tell how to get from one point to another in some smart way. best regardS/Zac Needless to say, I won't be playing the game anymore, sinse I'm at the stage now where to do anything new I absolutely need to do dungeons to progress in the game, and I'll be making a note of this on the audiogames.net warriors 2 page as well. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the
Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible?
I suppose its your choice weather or not to play. This to me looks similar to lands of hope, where it might have been reasonable to do something like this had they done it from the start, but going through every single dungeon from the beginning of the game and adding things to them would be exceedingly harsh. You always have to see it from the coder's standpoint, not just by how easy it seems to do something. Not only that but warriors2 is also a second language game, its entirely possible the GM may or may not understand what you're asking him to do. I honestly think we shouldn't react so viciously to accessibility things. It happens far too often, and 99% of the time there's a workaround if you're willing to put forth a little time and effort, or a lot of time and effort as the case may be. If people don't think a game is worth the effort to find and use the workarounds that's fine, but I usually can't see blaming it on the developer, especially not if it's a developer who's done other things in the name of accessibility and is obviously at least somewhat open to suggestions for how to make his game more playable. I've played every game I could find from sryth and Kingdom of Loathing, easily two of the most accessible games out there, to Lands of Hope and 3 skulls, two of the most inaccessible due to the use of mouseovers, lots of cursor routing and wandering and a ton of graphical things, and I've enjoyed them all to a point. Its worth it to me to find ways to play them. I can say with certainty that warriors2's dungeons aren't inaccessible, I've made it all the way through the castle of darkness and lapped as a titan, and I've also made it through the gorgon villages sewers and gargoth's tomb. It just takes a bit of patience and some use of the graphics that come up on the map that are clickable, like fountains, doors, levers, etc to help you get around and back to certain points in the dungeon. Perhaps the tone of this message is a bit more offensive and blunt than I'd like, and perhaps its an issue I can't really look into, like differences in screen reader. From posts on this list, jaws is one of the better screen readers out there for handling things graphically, so perhaps that's the problem. Either way I for one will continue to enjoy warriors2 when I play it, as well as other quote, inaccessible games. Its all a matter of how much work you're willing to put into them to be able to play and enjoy good games. -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:11 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? I will admit spacial memory isn't exactly my forte, however the clear access difference betwene having a full graphical map which shows you precisely where you've been in a dungeon, and just having a choice of directions of where to go in each room (which are very generically described so there's no way of telling your position from that), should be obvious. It's not the size of the dungeons I mind, it's this total lack of information, and the unwillingness of the Gm to even Countinance any sort of access suggestion, especially after I've had some good responses from him on things like labeling in game buttons. Obviously accessibility is something which is okay, so long as it doesn't actually involve doing anything. That's why I'm not precisely happy about this, and why I'm considering a correct response. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] entumbed?
How do you download entombed without being on the forum? thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] entumbed?
Er, scratch this, I found it. I had to go so I didn't look real hard before I asked on here. In case someone else wondered the same thing: http://www.blind-games.com/EntombedSetup.exe - Original Message - From: Valiant8086 To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: [Audyssey] entumbed? How do you download entombed without being on the forum? thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090716-0, 07/16/2009 Tested on: 7/16/2009 4:22:57 PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] entumbed?
the forum is long gone. entombed is now public so to speak. On 7/16/09, Valiant8086 valiant8...@lavabit.com wrote: How do you download entombed without being on the forum? thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi Chris, Unfortunately, computer mediated games may never be able to match human mediated games in quality. It is not just a matter of hardware, but the programming techniques themselves are incapable of creating a truly humanlike inteligence. Current artificial intelligence is limited to making decisions based soully on logic and probability. Humans don't really think that way. We tend to base decisions on emotions, morals, and other factors that has nothing to do with logic. For example, in Sryth, when playing the Goblins of Westwold adventure, you come upon a passage with a goblin chained to the wall. The game gives you three options. You can free him, kill him, or head back the way you came. A computer AI wouldn't be able to make a decision like that logically. The reason being that the action the player chooses in a case like that is emotional and may be based on prier experience rather than strictly based on logic. A compassionate person would free the goblin. A person who gets off on blood, guts,and gore would kill the goblin for a cheap thrill. A person who simply doesn't care might head back the way he/she came and do nothing about the chained goblin. The computer player on the other hand might have to randomly pick an action from a list of actions, or the developer would have to give the computer AI special instructions to be compassionate, blood thirsty, or disinterested. In other words the computers thought process, such as it is, is no better than its programming. It is incapable of independant action and thought on its own. It is incapable of creating its own personality and roll in a game world. Anyway, I just wanted to say as a developer I am limited to what I know and have been taught. I am no expert on artificial intelligence, and it is a fairly complex field of study to begin with. Programmers, scientists, and engineers better than I am have tackled this issue of human vs computer intelligence and it is not an easy problem to solve. I'm afraid to say my AI in this or any other game will be average at best. Smile. Christopher Bartlett wrote: This issue of open-ended vs. tightly scripted RPing interests me. My style as a game master is to set the scene, create significant non-player characters with their own agendas, some of whom act off stage independent of, or in reaction to the player characters, but who may not meet them until a climactic scene. Once I've wound this world up and set the scene, I release the PCs into the world. I then regard my job as deciding how the world reacts to their actions. They are the protagonists of this story after all. Now that is human role-playing. I've never seen a computer-mediated game come anywhere close to the richness of a human-mediated game, even in the MMORPG world. There is always a narrowing of objectives to fit a restrictive model. This makes sense in a paradigm that demands complete determinism for each scenario, where every action must be anticipated by the game designer. Without massive hardware support, you aren't going to see emergent behavior out of this deterministic model, which is the main reason human-mediated games are still more satisfying. I'm not expecting Tom to break this problem, although if he has ways around it, I'm so there for playing and ultimately purchasing the game. Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi Shaun, Sigh...That really wasn't my point. The point of my original article was how to overcome certain aspects of creating a roll playing game with the least amount of difficulty as possible. I certainly could write such a game in C, C++, Visual Basic, C-Sharp, or any other language I chose to, but based on my preliminary research creating such a game as a web based game was the least difficult option for me or anyone else interested in writing game book style roll playing games. That said, I haven't made any absolute decisions on weather or not the game will be an online game or a stand alone version. A lot of people jumped to the conclusion that my article meant I was talking specifically about Legends of Etheria, but I actually had intended to talk about creating a roll playing game in general. what I had found out, what problems I had encountered, and practical solutions for same. Finally, as for the .NET Framework that is of little concern at this point. After Mysteries of the Ancients is completed I will be officially dropping .NET support in my games and will be creating native Windows, Linux, and Mac OS games in C++ using core libraries and components. That will cut down on what dependencies a person will need to install. Smile. shaun everiss wrote: hmmm I'd be happy to install all the dependencies on my system. I have dotnet 1.1 to 3.5 with all service packs. I have dx9 I have xna3 for entombed I have I think some my sql addins for this to. So if it was easy enough I'd load all the dependancies. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi Dark, Yes, the amount of text is really the key difference. Roguelike games, like most games, aren't especially concerned with a great amount of describing your surroundings in great detail, or giving you lots of historical information about this or that place in the game world. There is a lot of text involved in a game like Sryth, Kingdom of Loathing, or any other game along those lines. dark wrote: Point taken Tom on the text front, - I actually understood your php example pretty well given my knolidge of html, ;D. I suppose the crytical difference here is with Angband's presentation. It doesn't need to worry about presenting several thousand screens of actual text and linking them via key presses or whatever, it just needs to defign a number of objects, - player, monsters, npcs, walls doors and items which are presented randomly on a grid pattern with certain rules and attributes attached to them, and set up the various reactions for what happenes when two of these objects interact, rather than completely rewrite all in game screens for each game event as happens in a gamebook style game or your example. I was just particularly interested in the use of text files, sinse that's one of Angband's actual strengths, and the reason players have been able to create so many different varients and alternative versions of the game so easily. Your example though also makes me wonder about early 80's rpgs like Eamon and fallthru and how much doing they must have taken to create. Beware the rue! Dark;. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Entombed stuff
Hi Jason, I have been waiting for google to send me a response back to set up an account for me since that pesky type in the numbers you hear wasn't working for me. Hopefully , it will be soon. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible?
It's not a Hal vs Jaws issue, unless Jaws suddenly has the ability to interpret image maps. Sinse other webmasters have done similar things accessibility wise, - heck, the webmaster of Chronicles of Arborell has created an entire other version of his game written completely from scratch. I'm going on the basis that written in the code must be something which identifies the position of each room precisely in the dungeon anyway, - and why not add an access feature? If it's simply a matter of interpreting a complex page view that indeed comes down to screen reader ifficiency, however this case is purely to do with in game graphics. What you do reguarding warriors 2 is up to you. I certainly have no intentions of removing the game from the database purely because of this issue, but if it's necessary to go into such details creating dungeon maps sinse the webmaster isn't willing to help make the lives of Vi players as easy as those of sited ones, I do feel a note is necessary. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Shadow Dragon elementalult...@hotmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? I suppose its your choice weather or not to play. This to me looks similar to lands of hope, where it might have been reasonable to do something like this had they done it from the start, but going through every single dungeon from the beginning of the game and adding things to them would be exceedingly harsh. You always have to see it from the coder's standpoint, not just by how easy it seems to do something. Not only that but warriors2 is also a second language game, its entirely possible the GM may or may not understand what you're asking him to do. I honestly think we shouldn't react so viciously to accessibility things. It happens far too often, and 99% of the time there's a workaround if you're willing to put forth a little time and effort, or a lot of time and effort as the case may be. If people don't think a game is worth the effort to find and use the workarounds that's fine, but I usually can't see blaming it on the developer, especially not if it's a developer who's done other things in the name of accessibility and is obviously at least somewhat open to suggestions for how to make his game more playable. I've played every game I could find from sryth and Kingdom of Loathing, easily two of the most accessible games out there, to Lands of Hope and 3 skulls, two of the most inaccessible due to the use of mouseovers, lots of cursor routing and wandering and a ton of graphical things, and I've enjoyed them all to a point. Its worth it to me to find ways to play them. I can say with certainty that warriors2's dungeons aren't inaccessible, I've made it all the way through the castle of darkness and lapped as a titan, and I've also made it through the gorgon villages sewers and gargoth's tomb. It just takes a bit of patience and some use of the graphics that come up on the map that are clickable, like fountains, doors, levers, etc to help you get around and back to certain points in the dungeon. Perhaps the tone of this message is a bit more offensive and blunt than I'd like, and perhaps its an issue I can't really look into, like differences in screen reader. From posts on this list, jaws is one of the better screen readers out there for handling things graphically, so perhaps that's the problem. Either way I for one will continue to enjoy warriors2 when I play it, as well as other quote, inaccessible games. Its all a matter of how much work you're willing to put into them to be able to play and enjoy good games. -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:11 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? I will admit spacial memory isn't exactly my forte, however the clear access difference betwene having a full graphical map which shows you precisely where you've been in a dungeon, and just having a choice of directions of where to go in each room (which are very generically described so there's no way of telling your position from that), should be obvious. It's not the size of the dungeons I mind, it's this total lack of information, and the unwillingness of the Gm to even Countinance any sort of access suggestion, especially after I've had some good responses from him on things like labeling in game buttons. Obviously accessibility is something which is okay, so long as it doesn't actually involve doing anything. That's why I'm not precisely happy about this, and why I'm considering a correct response. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update
Re: [Audyssey] entumbed?
You don't need to be on the forum. Just go to http://www.blind-games.com/EntombedSetup.exe and download it. (a link to download the latest version will always be found on audiogames.net's entombed page). Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Valiant8086 valiant8...@lavabit.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:21 PM Subject: [Audyssey] entumbed? How do you download entombed without being on the forum? thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Well, there is in fact a lot of text and messages in Angband, - but mostly that comes from a number of text files which function as databases to provide object descriptions and in game events rather than actually telling you anything about the environment (as I said, this is why i believe it will be possible to make Angband playable without access to the graphics). But i do take the point about general environment. In angband, it's simply necessary to have an object and say it's a tree when your targiting curser hits it, with it's relation to the player's character totally worked out by space, you don't need to describe anything at all. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch Hi Dark, Yes, the amount of text is really the key difference. Roguelike games, like most games, aren't especially concerned with a great amount of describing your surroundings in great detail, or giving you lots of historical information about this or that place in the game world. There is a lot of text involved in a game like Sryth, Kingdom of Loathing, or any other game along those lines. dark wrote: Point taken Tom on the text front, - I actually understood your php example pretty well given my knolidge of html, ;D. I suppose the crytical difference here is with Angband's presentation. It doesn't need to worry about presenting several thousand screens of actual text and linking them via key presses or whatever, it just needs to defign a number of objects, - player, monsters, npcs, walls doors and items which are presented randomly on a grid pattern with certain rules and attributes attached to them, and set up the various reactions for what happenes when two of these objects interact, rather than completely rewrite all in game screens for each game event as happens in a gamebook style game or your example. I was just particularly interested in the use of text files, sinse that's one of Angband's actual strengths, and the reason players have been able to create so many different varients and alternative versions of the game so easily. Your example though also makes me wonder about early 80's rpgs like Eamon and fallthru and how much doing they must have taken to create. Beware the rue! Dark;. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi Dark, That works for me. Like I was saying to Allan I am completely open into moving to a different genre like science fiction or some other genre. Just give me some ideas and I'd be all too happy to consider them. dark wrote: I agree Alan, a scifi rpg would be great, particularly with the large amount of worlds available. But one step at a time though. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] latest issue of Audyssey?
Hi Charles, Issue 55 hasn't been released yet. Ron was going to release it weeks ago, but for whatever reason it isn't ready yet. Smile. Charles Rivard wrote: The latest one I have is issue 54. I thought that one was coming out shortly, and that was a few months back. I haven't received any. If I missed or did not receive the latest issue, where can I download it rather than just view it online? Thanks. --- Shepherds are the best beasts. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
As I said Tom, I certainly see the logic of the online approach, I just hope it can be kept single player the way Sryth originally was intended to be. I would however love to see a scifi rp game giving you a hole galaxy to explore with different planets, quests separately on the various planets, flying a spaceship etc. Pluss, you have infinite expantion, especially if you made your universe similar to the Starwars or Dune universe with different amounts of technology found on different worlds, you could have standard dungeon crawling with swords on one world, and high tech robot developement elsewhere. Just my thoughts. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch Hi Allan, Thanks for the suggestions. It does seam as though more people are in favor of a stand alone, turn based, roll playing game apposed to an online game. I certainly have the technical skill and knowledge to do so, but at the cost of more time and energy. If a number of people really do want a stand alone turn based game I have no problem with sticking with that format for the game. As far as switching to a different genre or theme like science fiction that is a very good suggestion. For one thing there is more room to expand on the game world or game universe by adding aliens, robots, high tech weaponry, etc where the triditional roll playing games such as Dungeons and Dragons, Heroes Might and Magic, and so on have been there and done that so to speak. Everything that can be done has probably been done already in the fantacy genre. For example, one of the problems I had early on was finding a title for the game that wasn't already copyrighted. I went through a dozen names only to find out through a google search that some big commercial company had already copyrighted that name. If I used it I could get fried for copyright infringement even though it would be accidental rather than on purpose. The problem is the mainstream market is saturated with Dungeons and Dragons clones, and a small time developer like me can stumble into a mine field of copyright infringement suits. Another aspect about using modern or science fiction roll playing would be the availability of sound effects. It is easy enough to get laser sounds, explosions, electronic background ambience loops, etc. It is somewhat harder to get good quality fantacy sounds like spells, swords, knives, axes, etc. Allan Thompson wrote: Hi Tom, It looks like a pretty good idea. I can't pretend to understand all the technical mumbo jumbo, but it looks to me like you make a game, sell it, and charge a subscription to keep playing it online, like Ever Quest or World of Warcraft. It sounds highly customizable for programmer and gamers alike and so you might have a nice RPG to add to your catalog. Personally, I like the stand alone, turn based RPG, with a major storyline. I like to make one or more characters with lots of options and customization, who go from a weak to strong progression in power and items, solving miniquests, and challenging tactical battles ending up with the climatic showdown. I am not sure how that lines up with your vision, because most online things I have toyed with seem to be simply, kill, loot, repeat when necesary. Lastly, I just wanted to put a bug in the ear of you and everyone reading, I would love to see the turn based rPG game evolve into other genres. It would be neat to have science fiction, Post Apocalyptic, western, supernatural, or modern day based RPG. al --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived
[Audyssey] Combat was: Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
I actually really agree with you on this point. An interesting combat system which required actual tactics would be great, and the you hit it, it hit's you style does get dull very quickly. Being an atmosphere freak, I always want propper atmospheric descriptions of what happens in combat to give me the idea of really being in a fight, rather than just rolling numbers. In traditional Dd the numbers were only there for a guide, and it was up to the gm to describe what actually happened in combat. The problem is i'm not sure how easy it would be to create that sort of system with enough tactical decisions to make in a smaller game, - though it's quite possible entombed is going to manage it nicely from the way that combat system is developing. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Combat was: Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Actually, this is exactly the sort of thing a computer would be good at. You could have a list of maneuvers to choose from against your opponent, who would also choose based on the tactical situation, with some randomness to keep things from degenerating into complete predictability. Each maneuver/countermaneuver could impose restrictions on the next set of choices. Character attributes/skills could influence the success of the maneuver. With a computer to keep track of all the complex stuff, it should be possible to present the player with a set of choices and descriptive text describing the effect of the last set of choices. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:54 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Combat was: Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch I actually really agree with you on this point. An interesting combat system which required actual tactics would be great, and the you hit it, it hit's you style does get dull very quickly. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible?
I did think of the dungeon positioning thing, but I just find it really hard to believe that someone that's cooperative as the warriors2 GM usually is wouldn't be willing to do a quick fix like that. There must be more to it. I guess generally I give developers the benefit of the doubt since they've put so much work into these games anyway that it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them not to want or be able to pull out quick fixes, as other developers have proven. But then again, I guess everyone has their own willingness to do things as well, as you pointed out one guy even recreated an entire game system just so we could play it. Now that's devotion. But its pretty unreasonable to expect even half that kind of devotion from any developer, in my opinion. From what I hear dungeons aren't really that easy for sighted players either, and I just remembered something, if you go back through a cleared square in a dungeon it stays cleared, and doesn't use a turn, so that makes a good nav point. My main problem with warriors is the repetitiveness. There's certain things I want to see in warriors, but like a lot of other games you have to do a certain number of laps before you can see them and that doesn't stick too well with me on general principal. The bigger dungeons get a tad ridiculously huge too, so that doesn't help. I'm not sure if a coordinate system or some other form of grid-based location would help with that either, since really all that'd help you do is keep track of where you are, not where you've been or where you should go next. Anyway if you want to drop this topic that's fine, we both pretty obviously have our sepperate opinions about accessibility issues. -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:35 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? It's not a Hal vs Jaws issue, unless Jaws suddenly has the ability to interpret image maps. Sinse other webmasters have done similar things accessibility wise, - heck, the webmaster of Chronicles of Arborell has created an entire other version of his game written completely from scratch. I'm going on the basis that written in the code must be something which identifies the position of each room precisely in the dungeon anyway, - and why not add an access feature? If it's simply a matter of interpreting a complex page view that indeed comes down to screen reader ifficiency, however this case is purely to do with in game graphics. What you do reguarding warriors 2 is up to you. I certainly have no intentions of removing the game from the database purely because of this issue, but if it's necessary to go into such details creating dungeon maps sinse the webmaster isn't willing to help make the lives of Vi players as easy as those of sited ones, I do feel a note is necessary. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Combat was: Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
That sounds a lot like what path to pelantas does, only with more manual influence and not so much just reading through the battles. The problem with any kind of realistic combat is inevitably it'll get old and you'll have seen all the descriptions. This is one major reason why I prefer games that have bosses, newer enemies as you progress, maybe a rival to show you up at every turn. It keeps things interesting because each boss, each enemy has its own set of attacks and especially in the bosses case you have to strategize and plan ahead, trying to predict what attack it might or might not use and keep either yourself, or all your party members alive. I've never done anything with pen and paper roleplaying, but from some online transcripts I've seen it does look pretty neat under the right conditions, so I could probably take an interest in that as well. -- From: Christopher Bartlett themusicalbre...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:00 PM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Combat was: Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch Actually, this is exactly the sort of thing a computer would be good at. You could have a list of maneuvers to choose from against your opponent, who would also choose based on the tactical situation, with some randomness to keep things from degenerating into complete predictability. Each maneuver/countermaneuver could impose restrictions on the next set of choices. Character attributes/skills could influence the success of the maneuver. With a computer to keep track of all the complex stuff, it should be possible to present the player with a set of choices and descriptive text describing the effect of the last set of choices. Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi Thomas, Why not use XML? You may be able to get the same advantage as in a database. Pranav --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi Thomas, This is an excellent post and I have archived it. One question. Could you elaborate on the process of making a game book? How do you write the various alternatives and keep track of them? For example, let's say that our protagonist is called Peter. Peter can do two things. He can either go to the pub or go to the old barn. If he goes to the pub, something else happens. If he goes to the barn then something completely different happens. Pranav --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible?
Hi. To be honest having discussion on this issue is fine, while I'm obviously slightly narked about it, I'm not annoyed with you I'm annoyed with a gm who promises accessibility, is pleased to accept Vi players (and the money they bring to the game), but gives a flat refusal on this issue. I've been contacting developers about these sorts of things for quite a long time no in order to make more games easily accessiblew, and usually I can gage what is or is not a reasonable request to make. usually, those who do not either reffuse outright on a given access issue or simply ignore the question end up providing some degree of change, - in many cases I'm surprised at people's generosity (look at the mode which in effect rewrites quite a lot of the screen in smugglers 4). I suppose it's the fact that as you said yourself, the gm was previously so good about access and now has radically changed his tuen which got so up my nose. Also, I really liked the concept and construction of warriors when i first discovered the game a few months ago, and totally enjoyed my first lap and it's quests. It's at the stage now though, where I'm personally getting rather sick of the game's repetativeness and am looking for something else to do, it seems that dungeons are the only things I've not attempted yet, but due to my not exactly steller sense of spacial awareness and routing, haven't been able to get through any of them despite some rather frustrating attempts. I appologize if I let my frustration go slightly further than I originally intended, - though I stil think it's a right royal pest if nothing else. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Shadow Dragon elementalult...@hotmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:01 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? I did think of the dungeon positioning thing, but I just find it really hard to believe that someone that's cooperative as the warriors2 GM usually is wouldn't be willing to do a quick fix like that. There must be more to it. I guess generally I give developers the benefit of the doubt since they've put so much work into these games anyway that it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them not to want or be able to pull out quick fixes, as other developers have proven. But then again, I guess everyone has their own willingness to do things as well, as you pointed out one guy even recreated an entire game system just so we could play it. Now that's devotion. But its pretty unreasonable to expect even half that kind of devotion from any developer, in my opinion. From what I hear dungeons aren't really that easy for sighted players either, and I just remembered something, if you go back through a cleared square in a dungeon it stays cleared, and doesn't use a turn, so that makes a good nav point. My main problem with warriors is the repetitiveness. There's certain things I want to see in warriors, but like a lot of other games you have to do a certain number of laps before you can see them and that doesn't stick too well with me on general principal. The bigger dungeons get a tad ridiculously huge too, so that doesn't help. I'm not sure if a coordinate system or some other form of grid-based location would help with that either, since really all that'd help you do is keep track of where you are, not where you've been or where you should go next. Anyway if you want to drop this topic that's fine, we both pretty obviously have our sepperate opinions about accessibility issues. -- From: dark d...@xgam.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 4:35 PM To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Warriors 2 inaccessible? It's not a Hal vs Jaws issue, unless Jaws suddenly has the ability to interpret image maps. Sinse other webmasters have done similar things accessibility wise, - heck, the webmaster of Chronicles of Arborell has created an entire other version of his game written completely from scratch. I'm going on the basis that written in the code must be something which identifies the position of each room precisely in the dungeon anyway, - and why not add an access feature? If it's simply a matter of interpreting a complex page view that indeed comes down to screen reader ifficiency, however this case is purely to do with in game graphics. What you do reguarding warriors 2 is up to you. I certainly have no intentions of removing the game from the database purely because of this issue, but if it's necessary to go into such details creating dungeon maps sinse the webmaster isn't willing to help make the lives of Vi players as easy as those of sited ones, I do feel a note is necessary. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] Combat was: Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
I agree, however this is where i think a gamebook style rpg has a distinct advantage over a strategical game like path to pelanatas, sinse the exploration of your environment and the various new quests and adventures your character goes on absolutely dictate meeting new enemies with new attacks. One thing I'd in fact love to see is combat mixed in with story elements where you find out about monster attacks and weaknesses by talking to npcs or research, and then can go into battle prepared. So for instance in a DD style setting, you are sent quest by a lord to investigate a disturbance in a village. Getting there, your told that fire demons have appeared and are causing trouble, sinse none of the local guard know how to defeat them, and (as you find out by fighting them), their pretty hard (though not impossible), to kill sinse they keep chucking demonic fire at you which does mega amounts of damage and goes through your defenses. The Guard captain suggests you should talk to a master mage who knows a lot about demons. The mage tells you that demonic fire can't penetrate obsidian, so you then have to get (or forge), an obsidian shield. when you next go and combat said demons, during the combat, when one flings fire at you and your presented with choices like Attempt to dodge or use counter magic the option shield block appears, which then causes you to not be damaged by the demon's fire (though you stil have their claw and tale attacks to deal with). This is the sort of thing I'd love to see in a game, combat that actually impacts the story. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi Shadow Dragon, I'm not really sure what you are suggesting. While it is true the conceptual ideas of rpg style games is changing, especially in terms of audio/video games, but the basic concept of a roll playing game is to assume a character roll within an imaginary world, complete various quests, train skills, and so on. Game books are probably closest to traditional paper and pen roll playing that we have. In such a case the game mechanics are similar to traditional paper and pen games. I do agree that rolling a dice to perform skill checks, roll attacks, etc isn't very realistic, but given that the rpg type games began with paper and pen that was the only way to randomly determine an outcome. If you have a suggestion on how to improve performing skill checks, attacks, etc let me know. Otherwise I think the game mechanics set out by traditional rpg games seams sufficient for our needs. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
Hi Dark, Regardless if I create the game as a stand alone game in C++ or create it as an online game I want to make it a single player game. I'm not really interested in creating a party or pvp type game at this point. As far as your idea of creating a universe with mixed technological skills that kind of reminds me of an author I sometimes read. I don't know if you have read any of Piers Anthony's books, but he often has an interesting way of mixing science fiction and fantacy into the same story. For example, in the Blue Adept Piers Anthony describes a world with two aspects. In one frame it is a high tech world with computers, androids, intersteller space travel, lasers, and anything else you would expect from a science fiction novel. In the other frame it is a fantacy type world complete with werewolves, unicorns, people use magic instead of technology, etc. Some people are able to pass between the two frames of existance. Thus the main character is able to be both active in a fantacy and science fiction story at the same time. Anyway, even big name science fiction stories like Star Wars do have a fantacy aspect to them as well. If you think about it Star Wars is something like a fantacy story set in a science fiction setting. Instead of magic you have the force. Instead of swords you have light sabers. Instead of knights waring armour you have storm troopers. A lot of the same principles apply. it is just that Star Wars is suppose to be futuristic instead of being set in ancient earth. Smile. dark wrote: As I said Tom, I certainly see the logic of the online approach, I just hope it can be kept single player the way Sryth originally was intended to be. I would however love to see a scifi rp game giving you a hole galaxy to explore with different planets, quests separately on the various planets, flying a spaceship etc. Pluss, you have infinite expantion, especially if you made your universe similar to the Starwars or Dune universe with different amounts of technology found on different worlds, you could have standard dungeon crawling with swords on one world, and high tech robot developement elsewhere. Just my thoughts. Beware the Grue! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Creating Roll Playing Games From Scratch
WELL WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE i DON'T MIND i AM USED TO THE GAMEBOOKS ALTHOUGH i ALSO LIKE THE STANDARD STANDALONE THINGS WHERE YOU HEAR EVERYTHING. At 09:09 a.m. 17/07/2009, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Sigh...That really wasn't my point. The point of my original article was how to overcome certain aspects of creating a roll playing game with the least amount of difficulty as possible. I certainly could write such a game in C, C++, Visual Basic, C-Sharp, or any other language I chose to, but based on my preliminary research creating such a game as a web based game was the least difficult option for me or anyone else interested in writing game book style roll playing games. That said, I haven't made any absolute decisions on weather or not the game will be an online game or a stand alone version. A lot of people jumped to the conclusion that my article meant I was talking specifically about Legends of Etheria, but I actually had intended to talk about creating a roll playing game in general. what I had found out, what problems I had encountered, and practical solutions for same. Finally, as for the .NET Framework that is of little concern at this point. After Mysteries of the Ancients is completed I will be officially dropping .NET support in my games and will be creating native Windows, Linux, and Mac OS games in C++ using core libraries and components. That will cut down on what dependencies a person will need to install. Smile. shaun everiss wrote: hmmm I'd be happy to install all the dependencies on my system. I have dotnet 1.1 to 3.5 with all service packs. I have dx9 I have xna3 for entombed I have I think some my sql addins for this to. So if it was easy enough I'd load all the dependancies. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
