subject:"\[hlds\] Achievement Farmer Honeypot"

Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back up
to where it was before, not like I care too much.



I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something that
nobody is being held at gun point to use.

If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.


On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 17:35 -0500, Clyde cide wrote:
 First of all I would like to thank every one from the list who came here and
 signed up to nuke msleepers karma for his ridiculous plugin and insults to
 those who are the working shlubs as opposed to those who live solely on the
 interwebs setting rules as they see fit.
 
  To msleeper no one said to not make plugins rather what has been said
 to you and you dont understand that this plugin is dumb. To ban people for
 going to a server to get their achievements is ridiculous. Perhaps you would
 rather they took up time in a regular server to do the same thing?
 
  Whats really wrong with some friends getting together and grinding
 achievements? Are we not playing TF2 the way you think we should according
 to your rules? Can you show me the Tf2 manual where it says we cannot or
 should not do this to get the weapons? You were even trolling for a list of
 Id's of people who used the stupid unlocker for the weapons so they could be
 banned too. Here's an idea write yourself a plugin to filter out non vanilla
 players. That way you only get pure players who have never broken the laws
 of msleeper in tf2. They should be Grind free, default skins, default sounds
 and on and on and onI dont know why when you call every one cheaters you
 expect good karma[image: 0]
 
 
  On a different note Im sure you make fine plugins, this one is way off base
 imho, and telling people they are personally attacking you because they dont
 like your plugin is laughable.
 
 
  Keep up the good ork fellas, I think he may be starting to understand
 http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=769804#post769804
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

I bring it up because you saw fit to tell everyone to go there and do
it. I would hate for a L4D admin looking for stats or someone wanting my
Hunted Mod to think twice, just because a bunch of farmers and their
supporters decided it would be lol's.

And you can think that I had an admin buddy fix my Karma all you want,
but if pRED is on the list I'm sure he is admin enough over there to
tell you that wasn't the case.


On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 17:48 -0500, Clyde cide wrote:
 If you dont care that much why bring it up? Im glad you had an
 administrative buddy hook your karma back up +1 oh and btw the
 crossreference is for those who dont go to that site :D
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Rick Payton

Go ask LEGIT battlefield 2 players what they think about people farming
pistol / knives / explosives achievements in dedicated servers set to do
just that.

EA took much joy in wiping a lot of peoples hard earned stats due to
their own stupidity / laziness / insert adjective here

This is the same concept, only done OPTIONALY by tf2 server admins. With
EA, you had no choice - with this OPTIONAL add on - it's the server
admins choice. If an admin wishes to waste his OWN resources
(hardware, software, bandwidth, dedicated IP:port) - that's THEIR OWN
OPTIONAL decision.

Why can't people understand that yet?
-mauirixxx
-Sent from the msleeper fanclub ... Lulz. Much of them.
-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of CLAN RCR
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:55 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to
judge your logic/decision to base your bans off of.

Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might possibly
be off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a
moot point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is behind
the driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is somehow
a banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you
consider the other arguements logically you will never win the
arguement.

-Matt

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com
wrote:

 Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back up

 to where it was before, not like I care too much.



 I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the 
 plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called 
 self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something that 
 nobody is being held at gun point to use.

 If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.


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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Alex

where is msleeper fan club ? i would like to join

2009/2/27 CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com

 msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to judge
 your logic/decision to base your bans off of.

 Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might possibly be
 off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a moot
 point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is behind the
 driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is somehow a
 banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you consider
 the
 other arguements logically you will never win the arguement.

 -Matt

 On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:

  Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back up
  to where it was before, not like I care too much.
 
 
 
  I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
  plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
  self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something that
  nobody is being held at gun point to use.
 
  If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Dustin Wyatt

I haven't posted on this issue yet, but I just have to chime up.

I think the idea behind the plugin is kinda dumb.

I also think that no one is being forced to use it, and attacking msleeper
for it isn't helpful.  If his idea is so dumb, no one is going to use his
plugin...no need for a bajillion emails about it.



On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:54 PM, CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com wrote:

 msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to judge
 your logic/decision to base your bans off of.

 Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might possibly be
 off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a moot
 point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is behind the
 driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is somehow a
 banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you consider
 the
 other arguements logically you will never win the arguement.

 -Matt

 On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:

  Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back up
  to where it was before, not like I care too much.
 
 
 
  I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
  plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
  self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something that
  nobody is being held at gun point to use.
 
  If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

I am not trying to win anything. Farming is a polarized topic, where
people feel agree it is wrong, or feel it is fine and isn't against the
rules. Like all server communities, it is up to individual server admins
to decide what they want to be allowed and not to be allowed. Am I
saying that every single admin or player out there needs to feel the
same way I do? Of course not.

I'm not going to say that people need to feel the same way I feel about
farming, either. It's not off base and it's not the way that you feel,
so awesome. Don't run it, and enjoy farmers on your servers.


On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 16:54 -0600, CLAN RCR wrote:
 msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to judge
 your logic/decision to base your bans off of.
 
 Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might possibly be
 off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a moot
 point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is behind the
 driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is somehow a
 banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you consider the
 other arguements logically you will never win the arguement.
 
 -Matt
 
 On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:
 
  Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back up
  to where it was before, not like I care too much.
 
 
 
  I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
  plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
  self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something that
  nobody is being held at gun point to use.
 
  If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Mike Stiehm

I understand the point you guys make on this but really if you ban  
someone they will just join another farming server and go on with  
their day.

I run 4 32 man servers for farming. I myself have no unlocks because I  
don't have the time to farm / run the unlock program or even earn them  
the legit way.

No personal attack intended on anyone.


KennyLoggins
ClanAO.com

On Feb 26, 2009, at 5:01 PM, Rick Payton r...@mai-hawaii.com wrote:

 Go ask LEGIT battlefield 2 players what they think about people  
 farming
 pistol / knives / explosives achievements in dedicated servers set  
 to do
 just that.

 EA took much joy in wiping a lot of peoples hard earned stats due to
 their own stupidity / laziness / insert adjective here

 This is the same concept, only done OPTIONALY by tf2 server admins.  
 With
 EA, you had no choice - with this OPTIONAL add on - it's the server
 admins choice. If an admin wishes to waste his OWN resources
 (hardware, software, bandwidth, dedicated IP:port) - that's THEIR OWN
 OPTIONAL decision.

 Why can't people understand that yet?
 -mauirixxx
 -Sent from the msleeper fanclub ... Lulz. Much of them.
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of CLAN RCR
 Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 12:55 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to
 judge your logic/decision to base your bans off of.

 Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might possibly
 be off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a
 moot point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is  
 behind
 the driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is  
 somehow
 a banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you
 consider the other arguements logically you will never win the
 arguement.

 -Matt

 On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 wrote:

 Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back  
 up

 to where it was before, not like I care too much.



 I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
 plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
 self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something that
 nobody is being held at gun point to use.

 If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.


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 archives, please visit:
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KennyLoggins
ClanAO.com

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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Donnie Newlove

It's a very fine line you are walking, but I fully believe it's your
right to do it.

And please, even if you personally don’t like it, don’t be so
negative. What would have happened if he just did it quietly? Now he
shared the plugin, list of bans and most importantly of all, the
information that he did it. I didn’t see anyone so upset before he
openly admitted it without anyone even asking so obviously in the end
it’s not a big deal. Very few servers will use the plugin as a
honeypot or the ban list anyway and the ones that does may ban anyone
for any reason they seem fit anyway so what difference does it make?

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Dustin Wyatt dustin.wy...@gmail.com wrote:
 I haven't posted on this issue yet, but I just have to chime up.

 I think the idea behind the plugin is kinda dumb.

 I also think that no one is being forced to use it, and attacking msleeper
 for it isn't helpful.  If his idea is so dumb, no one is going to use his
 plugin...no need for a bajillion emails about it.



 On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:54 PM, CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com wrote:

 msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to judge
 your logic/decision to base your bans off of.

 Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might possibly be
 off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a moot
 point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is behind the
 driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is somehow a
 banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you consider
 the
 other arguements logically you will never win the arguement.

 -Matt

 On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:

  Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back up
  to where it was before, not like I care too much.
 
 
 
  I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
  plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
  self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something that
  nobody is being held at gun point to use.
 
  If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Rick Payton

I was supposed to close outlook and get back to work. But I failed at
that.

All I got to say in response to the text below Dustin is ...

./agreed 100%

-mauirixxx
- Sent from a place where I'm still contributing to the problem. Fuck.
-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Dustin Wyatt
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:10 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

I haven't posted on this issue yet, but I just have to chime up.

I think the idea behind the plugin is kinda dumb.

I also think that no one is being forced to use it, and attacking
msleeper for it isn't helpful.  If his idea is so dumb, no one is going
to use his plugin...no need for a bajillion emails about it.



On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:54 PM, CLAN RCR clan...@gmail.com wrote:

 msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to 
 judge your logic/decision to base your bans off of.

 Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might possibly

 be off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a

 moot point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is 
 behind the driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming 
 is somehow a banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and 
 until you consider the other arguements logically you will never win 
 the arguement.

 -Matt

 On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com
wrote:

  Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back 
  up to where it was before, not like I care too much.
 
 
 
  I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the 
  plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called 
  self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something 
  that nobody is being held at gun point to use.
 
  If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Blood Letter


This is not some noble cause that warrants beating your own drum in a one-man 
parade.



What you're doing is the equivalent of a child offering to share their
toys with another child, then taking them away and yelling NO!  You're
not allowed to play with my toys anymore!  And my friends all hate you
too!  Hey everyone!  Isn't this person stupid!  Don't ever play with
him because he's stupid!

 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:16:35 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 I am not trying to win anything. Farming is a polarized topic, where
 people feel agree it is wrong, or feel it is fine and isn't against the
 rules. Like all server communities, it is up to individual server admins
 to decide what they want to be allowed and not to be allowed. Am I
 saying that every single admin or player out there needs to feel the
 same way I do? Of course not.
 
 I'm not going to say that people need to feel the same way I feel about
 farming, either. It's not off base and it's not the way that you feel,
 so awesome. Don't run it, and enjoy farmers on your servers.
 
 
 On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 16:54 -0600, CLAN RCR wrote:
  msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to judge
  your logic/decision to base your bans off of.
  
  Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might possibly be
  off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a moot
  point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is behind the
  driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is somehow a
  banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you consider the
  other arguements logically you will never win the arguement.
  
  -Matt
  
  On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:
  
   Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back up
   to where it was before, not like I care too much.
  
  
  
   I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
   plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
   self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something that
   nobody is being held at gun point to use.
  
   If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.
  
  
  ___
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  please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Chris

So, I didn't know what clan msleeper was running but thought there would be
loads of people complaining on his forums, and right enough in his bans
section loads of people are complaining... First thread I saw this reply
from one of his TF2 Division members:

Or just do it on another non F7 server like everyone else who farms
achievements does and don't fall for msleepers little trap next time. 

I think you should ban this guy msleeper, not only does he play on your
server but he's one of your clan members in TF2 Division and he's condones
and obviously is involved in the highly illicit practice of farming,  and
advising those who play on your servers to farm elsewhere!

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Blood Letter
bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:


 This is not some noble cause that warrants beating your own drum in a
 one-man parade.



 What you're doing is the equivalent of a child offering to share their
 toys with another child, then taking them away and yelling NO!  You're
 not allowed to play with my toys anymore!  And my friends all hate you
 too!  Hey everyone!  Isn't this person stupid!  Don't ever play with
 him because he's stupid!

  From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:16:35 -0500
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
  I am not trying to win anything. Farming is a polarized topic, where
  people feel agree it is wrong, or feel it is fine and isn't against the
  rules. Like all server communities, it is up to individual server admins
  to decide what they want to be allowed and not to be allowed. Am I
  saying that every single admin or player out there needs to feel the
  same way I do? Of course not.
 
  I'm not going to say that people need to feel the same way I feel about
  farming, either. It's not off base and it's not the way that you feel,
  so awesome. Don't run it, and enjoy farmers on your servers.
 
 
  On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 16:54 -0600, CLAN RCR wrote:
   msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to
 judge
   your logic/decision to base your bans off of.
  
   Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might possibly
 be
   off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a
 moot
   point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is behind the
   driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is somehow a
   banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you
 consider the
   other arguements logically you will never win the arguement.
  
   -Matt
  
   On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 wrote:
  
Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back
 up
to where it was before, not like I care too much.
   
   
   
I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something that
nobody is being held at gun point to use.
   
If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.
   
   
   ___
   To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
   http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

More AlliedModders crosspost!



You're free to think that. I think it is noble, and I think that if I
had released this sooner - say, right after the Medic update - then
maybe people would not have become as complacent with farming in the
first place. Your example is bad too, by the way, because it implies
that toys are bad. A better example would be posing as an underage girl
and luring people to see you for sex, but then the police show up and
bust you. If you weren't going to be doing something against the rules,
you wouldn't have been there in the first place.

And, yet again, I need to reiterate that this plugin is designed for
communities who feel similarly about farming. Farming may be a-okay on
your servers, but on mine it earns you a ban.



On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 15:29 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
 This is not some noble cause that warrants beating your own drum in a one-man 
 parade.
 
 
 
 What you're doing is the equivalent of a child offering to share their
 toys with another child, then taking them away and yelling NO!  You're
 not allowed to play with my toys anymore!  And my friends all hate you
 too!  Hey everyone!  Isn't this person stupid!  Don't ever play with
 him because he's stupid!
 
  From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:16:35 -0500
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
  I am not trying to win anything. Farming is a polarized topic, where
  people feel agree it is wrong, or feel it is fine and isn't against the
  rules. Like all server communities, it is up to individual server admins
  to decide what they want to be allowed and not to be allowed. Am I
  saying that every single admin or player out there needs to feel the
  same way I do? Of course not.
  
  I'm not going to say that people need to feel the same way I feel about
  farming, either. It's not off base and it's not the way that you feel,
  so awesome. Don't run it, and enjoy farmers on your servers.
  
  
  On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 16:54 -0600, CLAN RCR wrote:
   msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to judge
   your logic/decision to base your bans off of.
   
   Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might possibly be
   off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a moot
   point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is behind the
   driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is somehow a
   banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you consider 
   the
   other arguements logically you will never win the arguement.
   
   -Matt
   
   On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:
   
Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back up
to where it was before, not like I care too much.
   
   
   
I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something that
nobody is being held at gun point to use.
   
If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.
   
   
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Brent Veal

If you don't want people farming on your servers, then why not just *not*
have achievement farming maps running on your servers.

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 3:51 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:

 More AlliedModders crosspost!



 You're free to think that. I think it is noble, and I think that if I
 had released this sooner - say, right after the Medic update - then
 maybe people would not have become as complacent with farming in the
 first place. Your example is bad too, by the way, because it implies
 that toys are bad. A better example would be posing as an underage girl
 and luring people to see you for sex, but then the police show up and
 bust you. If you weren't going to be doing something against the rules,
 you wouldn't have been there in the first place.

 And, yet again, I need to reiterate that this plugin is designed for
 communities who feel similarly about farming. Farming may be a-okay on
 your servers, but on mine it earns you a ban.



 On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 15:29 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  This is not some noble cause that warrants beating your own drum in a
 one-man parade.
 
 
 
  What you're doing is the equivalent of a child offering to share their
  toys with another child, then taking them away and yelling NO!  You're
  not allowed to play with my toys anymore!  And my friends all hate you
  too!  Hey everyone!  Isn't this person stupid!  Don't ever play with
  him because he's stupid!
 
   From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:16:35 -0500
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
   I am not trying to win anything. Farming is a polarized topic, where
   people feel agree it is wrong, or feel it is fine and isn't against the
   rules. Like all server communities, it is up to individual server
 admins
   to decide what they want to be allowed and not to be allowed. Am I
   saying that every single admin or player out there needs to feel the
   same way I do? Of course not.
  
   I'm not going to say that people need to feel the same way I feel about
   farming, either. It's not off base and it's not the way that you
 feel,
   so awesome. Don't run it, and enjoy farmers on your servers.
  
  
   On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 16:54 -0600, CLAN RCR wrote:
msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to
 judge
your logic/decision to base your bans off of.
   
Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might
 possibly be
off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a
 moot
point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is behind
 the
driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is somehow
 a
banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you
 consider the
other arguements logically you will never win the arguement.
   
-Matt
   
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 wrote:
   
 Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back
 up
 to where it was before, not like I care too much.



 I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
 plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
 self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something
 that
 nobody is being held at gun point to use.

 If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.


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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Sam Horn

Except instead of underage sex it's regular sex, and you're arresting people
for doing something that only you (and a very select group of people) think
is wrong.
- Sam

2009/2/27 msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com

 More AlliedModders crosspost!



 You're free to think that. I think it is noble, and I think that if I
 had released this sooner - say, right after the Medic update - then
 maybe people would not have become as complacent with farming in the
 first place. Your example is bad too, by the way, because it implies
 that toys are bad. A better example would be posing as an underage girl
 and luring people to see you for sex, but then the police show up and
 bust you. If you weren't going to be doing something against the rules,
 you wouldn't have been there in the first place.

 And, yet again, I need to reiterate that this plugin is designed for
 communities who feel similarly about farming. Farming may be a-okay on
 your servers, but on mine it earns you a ban.



 On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 15:29 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  This is not some noble cause that warrants beating your own drum in a
 one-man parade.
 
 
 
  What you're doing is the equivalent of a child offering to share their
  toys with another child, then taking them away and yelling NO!  You're
  not allowed to play with my toys anymore!  And my friends all hate you
  too!  Hey everyone!  Isn't this person stupid!  Don't ever play with
  him because he's stupid!
 
   From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:16:35 -0500
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
   I am not trying to win anything. Farming is a polarized topic, where
   people feel agree it is wrong, or feel it is fine and isn't against the
   rules. Like all server communities, it is up to individual server
 admins
   to decide what they want to be allowed and not to be allowed. Am I
   saying that every single admin or player out there needs to feel the
   same way I do? Of course not.
  
   I'm not going to say that people need to feel the same way I feel about
   farming, either. It's not off base and it's not the way that you
 feel,
   so awesome. Don't run it, and enjoy farmers on your servers.
  
  
   On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 16:54 -0600, CLAN RCR wrote:
msleeper, you are entirely missing the principal people are using to
 judge
your logic/decision to base your bans off of.
   
Until you decide to at least consider the fact that you might
 possibly be
off base, weather or not you wrote a plugin to do this or that is a
 moot
point. The quality or usability of the plugin isn't what is behind
 the
driving force to resist you, it is the logic that farming is somehow
 a
banable offence that people are disagreeing with, and until you
 consider the
other arguements logically you will never win the arguement.
   
-Matt
   
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 wrote:
   
 Hey look I can crosspost to AlliedModders too. FYI my Karma is back
 up
 to where it was before, not like I care too much.



 I think you're missing the point. Nobody is forcing you to use the
 plugin, or enforce the banlist I have up. I am being called
 self-righteous, but then being flamed and -Karma'd for something
 that
 nobody is being held at gun point to use.

 If you don't like it, don't use it. End of story.


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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Clyde cide

Whats the point again of having them join the server get an achievement and
then get banned? So they get an achievement off you, you allow them to in
your opinion Cheat and then get banned? So its ok to momentarily allow
them to cheat why not use fake clients and auto ban them as they join?
Atleast thats more upfront about it as opposed to allowing them to get their
sin then have you ban them.
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Blood Letter

He claims it's because he thinks fake clients are bad.  (And a fake server is 
better?  LOL)
The real reason is because he wants to toy with people and play God.

 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:03:25 -0500
 From: thedrunkenbraw...@gmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 Whats the point again of having them join the server get an achievement and
 then get banned? So they get an achievement off you, you allow them to in
 your opinion Cheat and then get banned? So its ok to momentarily allow
 them to cheat why not use fake clients and auto ban them as they join?
 Atleast thats more upfront about it as opposed to allowing them to get their
 sin then have you ban them.
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

If I knew of a way to stop them from actually earning the achievement, I
would. I have stated this before, I think in the SourceMod thread you
keep crossposting to, that the reason I don't ban on connect is because
joining a map isn't wrong. Earning achievements on a map designed to
beat the system, on the other hand...



On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 19:03 -0500, Clyde cide wrote:
 Whats the point again of having them join the server get an achievement and
 then get banned? So they get an achievement off you, you allow them to in
 your opinion Cheat and then get banned? So its ok to momentarily allow
 them to cheat why not use fake clients and auto ban them as they join?
 Atleast thats more upfront about it as opposed to allowing them to get their
 sin then have you ban them.
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Clyde cide

The Best part is this despite msleeper wanting to ban players off his
servers for cheating, The ban itself is only for 30 days lol... IDK seems
like the reasoning behind it all is flawed. I mean if the player is a hacker
and a cheater according to you why ever let them back in? Why not perma ban?
Is it so they can come and grovel to get their ban lifted raise their hands
to the Almighty msleeper in praise fr lifting the terribad ban? Out of
curiosity for having such harsh feelings for this, how does it feel to
have one of your own clan mates busted in the evil web you weave?
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

The 30 day ban is for a good reason - I feel that 30 days is plenty of
time for honest players to earn the unlockables through normal,
real-world means. People with kids and wives and 40-hour-a-week jobs -
but also a sense of decency.

Their names and SteamIDs are going to stay up on the list page though.


On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 19:12 -0500, Clyde cide wrote:
 The Best part is this despite msleeper wanting to ban players off his
 servers for cheating, The ban itself is only for 30 days lol... IDK seems
 like the reasoning behind it all is flawed. I mean if the player is a hacker
 and a cheater according to you why ever let them back in? Why not perma ban?
 Is it so they can come and grovel to get their ban lifted raise their hands
 to the Almighty msleeper in praise fr lifting the terribad ban? Out of
 curiosity for having such harsh feelings for this, how does it feel to
 have one of your own clan mates busted in the evil web you weave?
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Blood Letter

You've already claimed that they are dishonest players who earn achievements 
through farming.

Why would you make any time-based considerations for this group, using any 
standard created with honest players in mind?

 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:19:35 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 The 30 day ban is for a good reason - I feel that 30 days is plenty of
 time for honest players to earn the unlockables through normal,
 real-world means. People with kids and wives and 40-hour-a-week jobs -
 but also a sense of decency.

 Their names and SteamIDs are going to stay up on the list page though.

 On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 19:12 -0500, Clyde cide wrote:
  The Best part is this despite msleeper wanting to ban players off his
  servers for cheating, The ban itself is only for 30 days lol... IDK seems
  like the reasoning behind it all is flawed. I mean if the player is a hacker
  and a cheater according to you why ever let them back in? Why not perma ban?
  Is it so they can come and grovel to get their ban lifted raise their hands
  to the Almighty msleeper in praise fr lifting the terribad ban? Out of
  curiosity for having such harsh feelings for this, how does it feel to
  have one of your own clan mates busted in the evil web you weave?
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread CLAN RCR

The point is, farming is not cheating.

-Matt
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

In your opinion. That's what this comes down to, and why I can't
understand why there is so much flak here - it's all a matter of
opinion. For the billionth time, I have done this for people who have
similar opinions as mine. If you feel differently about farming, then
awesome! Good for you, don't run my plugin. You certainly don't have to.


On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 21:22 -0600, CLAN RCR wrote:
 The point is, farming is not cheating.
 
 -Matt
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Bengt Rosenberger

I just set up 3 more achievement servers (4 in total now) with special 
plugins to make farming much, much easier.
Just to compensate your stupid attempt to play police and reduce the 
chances the players will hit yours.

msleeper schrieb:
 The 30 day ban is for a good reason - I feel that 30 days is plenty of
 time for honest players to earn the unlockables through normal,
 real-world means. People with kids and wives and 40-hour-a-week jobs -
 but also a sense of decency.

 Their names and SteamIDs are going to stay up on the list page though.


 On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 19:12 -0500, Clyde cide wrote:
   
 The Best part is this despite msleeper wanting to ban players off his
 servers for cheating, The ban itself is only for 30 days lol... IDK seems
 like the reasoning behind it all is flawed. I mean if the player is a hacker
 and a cheater according to you why ever let them back in? Why not perma ban?
 Is it so they can come and grovel to get their ban lifted raise their hands
 to the Almighty msleeper in praise fr lifting the terribad ban? Out of
 curiosity for having such harsh feelings for this, how does it feel to
 have one of your own clan mates busted in the evil web you weave?
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Mike Stiehm

Oh ya? What's the plugin I'll put it on my server

KennyLoggins
ClanAO.com

On Feb 26, 2009, at 9:38 PM, Bengt Rosenberger  
bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de wrote:

 I just set up 3 more achievement servers (4 in total now) with special
 plugins to make farming much, much easier.
 Just to compensate your stupid attempt to play police and reduce the
 chances the players will hit yours.

 msleeper schrieb:
 The 30 day ban is for a good reason - I feel that 30 days is plenty  
 of
 time for honest players to earn the unlockables through normal,
 real-world means. People with kids and wives and 40-hour-a-week  
 jobs -
 but also a sense of decency.

 Their names and SteamIDs are going to stay up on the list page  
 though.


 On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 19:12 -0500, Clyde cide wrote:

 The Best part is this despite msleeper wanting to ban players off  
 his
 servers for cheating, The ban itself is only for 30 days lol...  
 IDK seems
 like the reasoning behind it all is flawed. I mean if the player  
 is a hacker
 and a cheater according to you why ever let them back in? Why not  
 perma ban?
 Is it so they can come and grovel to get their ban lifted raise  
 their hands
 to the Almighty msleeper in praise fr lifting the terribad ban?  
 Out of
 curiosity for having such harsh feelings for this, how does it  
 feel to
 have one of your own clan mates busted in the evil web you weave?
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Patrick Shelley

So then, how many is that?

Servers with this plugin: ZERO !!

http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402


On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 3:29 AM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:

  For the billionth time, I have done this for people who have
 similar opinions as mine.


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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

If you were smarter, you would know that new plugins don't have the
server tracking enabled for them. When the plugin is Approved or Denied,
then it will track the servers with it.

Assuming that someone hasn't edited out the public cvar that is used to
track them like I have on mine.


On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 04:05 +, Patrick Shelley wrote:
 So then, how many is that?
 
 Servers with this plugin: ZERO !!
 
 http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
 
 
 On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 3:29 AM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:
 
   For the billionth time, I have done this for people who have
  similar opinions as mine.
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Karl Weckstrom

Well, it seems that the Achievement thing has made Valve a bit divisive :) 

I say get rid of Achievements altogether. 

I think the content here speaks for itself. 



-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:29 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

In your opinion. That's what this comes down to, and why I can't
understand why there is so much flak here - it's all a matter of
opinion. For the billionth time, I have done this for people who have
similar opinions as mine. If you feel differently about farming, then
awesome! Good for you, don't run my plugin. You certainly don't have to.


On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 21:22 -0600, CLAN RCR wrote:
 The point is, farming is not cheating.
 
 -Matt
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Patrick Shelley

I thought you'd say that - which is why i checked the new plugin for DOD
hide and Seek which has 4 servers using it.
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread SmOoThEm

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter the difference it makes
to you. All of us express our own views in the servers we run and produce
and the community has provided us expansion and choice in the method of
plugins. Personally I would rather have these people wanting to solely earn
achievements away from my public servers wasting slots and time from players
enjoying the game in its original fashion BUT THAT'S ONLY MY OPPINION!

Stop the fighting and exchange of words about his servers, take the mature
action and ignore them on your own quest for fun in the perfect server.

BOTTOM LINE: If you don't like the way my servers are ran or I would expect
you not to use my resources, the same goes for anyone's servers. There are
many choices in the server list and really if your receiving this message
you should have space of your own that you have influenced plugin decisions
others potentially may not like. Reflect your opinions in the servers you
provide and do not push your beliefs on others.

That is all.



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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-26 Thread Patrick Shelley

Oh well, lets hope you get more than 4 in 6 months!
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[hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins out
there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
step one.

I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out last
night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
stopped.

The plugin is here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
My publicly available list of farmers is here:
http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is wrong,
but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.


Sent from my honeypot


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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Bengt Rosenberger

Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or 
wait... No, I won't.
Have fun with an empty server.

Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...

msleeper schrieb:
 I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
 who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins out
 there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
 step one.

 I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out last
 night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
 stopped.

 The plugin is here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
 My publicly available list of farmers is here:
 http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

 I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
 about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is wrong,
 but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.


 Sent from my honeypot


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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?

 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
 From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or 
 wait... No, I won't.
 Have fun with an empty server.

 Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...

 msleeper schrieb:
  I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
  who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins out
  there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
  step one.

  I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out last
  night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
  stopped.

  The plugin is here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
  My publicly available list of farmers is here:
  http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

  I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
  about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is wrong,
  but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.

  Sent from my honeypot

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  please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a delay
between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't know what
is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming server.


On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100, Bengt Rosenberger wrote:
 Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or 
 wait... No, I won't.
 Have fun with an empty server.
 
 Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
 
 msleeper schrieb:
  I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
  who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins out
  there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
  step one.
 
  I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out last
  night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
  stopped.
 
  The plugin is here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
  My publicly available list of farmers is here:
  http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html
 
  I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
  about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is wrong,
  but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.
 
 
  Sent from my honeypot
 
 
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  please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

I have a really strong feeling that Valve has found a way to catch
people who use that too, now that everything is using the Steam Cloud.
The fact that they caught people who used the weapon glitch, and that
they are awaiting the ways we will disappoint them give me hope that
they finally have.

http://teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2262

Maybe honest players will finally prevail.



On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:04 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
 Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?
 
  Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
  From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
  Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or 
  wait... No, I won't.
  Have fun with an empty server.
  
  Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
  
  msleeper schrieb:
   I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
   who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins out
   there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
   step one.
  
   I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out last
   night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
   stopped.
  
   The plugin is here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
   My publicly available list of farmers is here:
   http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html
  
   I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
   about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is wrong,
   but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.
  
  
   Sent from my honeypot
  
  
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   please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Neil Voutt

he has a point..

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Blood Letter bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:

 Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?

  Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
  From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

  Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or
  wait... No, I won't.
  Have fun with an empty server.

  Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...

  msleeper schrieb:
   I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
   who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins
 out
   there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
   step one.

   I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out
 last
   night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
   stopped.

   The plugin is here:
 http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
   My publicly available list of farmers is here:
   http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

   I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
   about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is
 wrong,
   but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.

   Sent from my honeypot

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 please visit:
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-- 
Neil Voutt
http://www.neilvoutt.com
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread MONDO

What you're saying is you'll ban anyone who gets an achievement.  So many of
the achievements are obtained by simply paying the game.. right?  I have a
better solution... just turn your server off!  Problem fixed!  I understand
about farming, but banning anyone who gets an achievement is about the most
foolish thing I've heard.  It saddens me that you used your talent at
scripting to write such silliness.

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Blood Letter bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:


 Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?

  Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
  From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
  Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or
  wait... No, I won't.
  Have fun with an empty server.
 
  Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
 
  msleeper schrieb:
   I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
   who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins
 out
   there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
   step one.
  
   I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out
 last
   night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
   stopped.
  
   The plugin is here:
 http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
   My publicly available list of farmers is here:
   http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html
  
   I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
   about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is
 wrong,
   but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.
  
  
   Sent from my honeypot
  
  
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 please visit:
   http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
  
  
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

This plugin is not designed to be used in a normal 24/7 2fort server or
any normal server at all. It is designed to be used as a honeypot - a
server that looks like a normal achievement grinding server. My server
is running achievement_scout, and the only reason to join a server
running that map is to farm achievements.

If you didn't have the intention of cheating and farming achievements,
you wouldn't be there in the first place.


Sent from my name is Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC


On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 16:14 -0500, MONDO wrote:
 What you're saying is you'll ban anyone who gets an achievement.  So many of
 the achievements are obtained by simply paying the game.. right?  I have a
 better solution... just turn your server off!  Problem fixed!  I understand
 about farming, but banning anyone who gets an achievement is about the most
 foolish thing I've heard.  It saddens me that you used your talent at
 scripting to write such silliness.
 
 On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Blood Letter 
 bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:
 
 
  Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?
 
   Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
   From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
   Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or
   wait... No, I won't.
   Have fun with an empty server.
  
   Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
  
   msleeper schrieb:
I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins
  out
there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
step one.
   
I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out
  last
night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
stopped.
   
The plugin is here:
  http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
My publicly available list of farmers is here:
http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html
   
I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is
  wrong,
but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.
   
   
Sent from my honeypot
   
   
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  please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread SakeFox

there is a big difference between farming and using the unlocker. 
Farming you actually have to do the work to get the achievement. The 
unlocker you are altering the systems to get them without doing 
anything. This I personally think is a cheat due to the modification it 
does. I don't have a issue with farming if people want the weapons 
without a lot of work so let them. at least there putting some work into 
it. The unlocker is being lazy and I find the equivalent as using a aim 
bot because your to lazy to aim and get skill yourself.

let the flame war begin.

Neil Voutt wrote:
 he has a point..

 On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Blood Letter 
 bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:

   
 Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?

 
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
 From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or
 wait... No, I won't.
 Have fun with an empty server.

 Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...

 msleeper schrieb:
   
 I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
 who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins
 
 out
 
 there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
 step one.

 I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out
 
 last
 
 night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
 stopped.

 The plugin is here:
 
 http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
 
 My publicly available list of farmers is here:
 http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

 I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
 about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is
 
 wrong,
 
 but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.


 Sent from my honeypot


 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 
 please visit:
 
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds


 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Jeremy Palmer

This simply shows how bad the idea of acheivements is. It just provides
another avanue to cheat.

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 3:19 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:

 This plugin is not designed to be used in a normal 24/7 2fort server or
 any normal server at all. It is designed to be used as a honeypot - a
 server that looks like a normal achievement grinding server. My server
 is running achievement_scout, and the only reason to join a server
 running that map is to farm achievements.

 If you didn't have the intention of cheating and farming achievements,
 you wouldn't be there in the first place.


 Sent from my name is Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC


 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 16:14 -0500, MONDO wrote:
  What you're saying is you'll ban anyone who gets an achievement.  So many
 of
  the achievements are obtained by simply paying the game.. right?  I have
 a
  better solution... just turn your server off!  Problem fixed!  I
 understand
  about farming, but banning anyone who gets an achievement is about the
 most
  foolish thing I've heard.  It saddens me that you used your talent at
  scripting to write such silliness.
 
  On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Blood Letter 
 bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:
 
  
   Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?
  
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
   
Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server...
 Or
wait... No, I won't.
Have fun with an empty server.
   
Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
   
msleeper schrieb:
 I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban
 anyone
 who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other
 admins
   out
 there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this
 is
 step one.

 I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out
   last
 night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught
 and
 stopped.

 The plugin is here:
   http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
 My publicly available list of farmers is here:
 http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

 I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal
 opinions
 about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is
   wrong,
 but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.


 Sent from my honeypot


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 archives,
   please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds


   
   
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Aj Collins

If Valve wanted to stop achievement farming servers, they would have set up
a server blacklist a long, long time ago. Besides, there are people who just
don't have the time (some people actually have a life and work!) to spend
killing millions of people to unlock an achievement. By the time that they
do, the game will most likely be replaced with the next installment. Also,
unlocks are a crock of crap to new players as they will get pissed off and
leave by older, younger players having more powerful guns while they have
shit guns. If achievement farming on farming servers keeps them playing back
in my or someone else's server, I'm all for it.

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:11 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:

 I have a really strong feeling that Valve has found a way to catch
 people who use that too, now that everything is using the Steam Cloud.
 The fact that they caught people who used the weapon glitch, and that
 they are awaiting the ways we will disappoint them give me hope that
 they finally have.

 http://teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2262

 Maybe honest players will finally prevail.



 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:04 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?
 
   Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
   From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
   Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or
   wait... No, I won't.
   Have fun with an empty server.
  
   Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
  
   msleeper schrieb:
I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban
 anyone
who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins
 out
there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this
 is
step one.
   
I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out
 last
night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
stopped.
   
The plugin is here:
 http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
My publicly available list of farmers is here:
http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html
   
I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal
 opinions
about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is
 wrong,
but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.
   
   
Sent from my honeypot
   
   
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 archives, please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

Not having the time isn't a justifiable reason to cheat. Sorry.


On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 16:22 -0500, Aj Collins wrote:
 If Valve wanted to stop achievement farming servers, they would have set up
 a server blacklist a long, long time ago. Besides, there are people who just
 don't have the time (some people actually have a life and work!) to spend
 killing millions of people to unlock an achievement. By the time that they
 do, the game will most likely be replaced with the next installment. Also,
 unlocks are a crock of crap to new players as they will get pissed off and
 leave by older, younger players having more powerful guns while they have
 shit guns. If achievement farming on farming servers keeps them playing back
 in my or someone else's server, I'm all for it.
 
 On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:11 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:
 
  I have a really strong feeling that Valve has found a way to catch
  people who use that too, now that everything is using the Steam Cloud.
  The fact that they caught people who used the weapon glitch, and that
  they are awaiting the ways we will disappoint them give me hope that
  they finally have.
 
  http://teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2262
 
  Maybe honest players will finally prevail.
 
 
 
  On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:04 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
   Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?
  
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
   
Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or
wait... No, I won't.
Have fun with an empty server.
   
Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
   
msleeper schrieb:
 I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban
  anyone
 who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins
  out
 there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this
  is
 step one.

 I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out
  last
 night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
 stopped.

 The plugin is here:
  http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
 My publicly available list of farmers is here:
 http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

 I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal
  opinions
 about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is
  wrong,
 but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.


 Sent from my honeypot


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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

Your Plugin is beyond Lame. Get a life! Believe it or not people who live in
the real world, have jobs, families and work commitments have little or no
time to play to begin with. Why should they be punished for not having the
time to spend hours and weeks to get achievements to use new weapons?
Honestly to reward only those who dont Farm because they have no life and
can spend all day every day on a computer to get it the honest way and
punish those who farm is ridiculous. You should tell us your real servers
names and Ip's that we can tell all our friends and steam groups to just
steer clear of you. Then you can have fun in your anal little fiefdom all by
yourself.
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread MONDO

lol... so you're drawing them in, just to ban them?  that sounds a lot like
griefing now that I see it.  You sound like one of those misled vigilantes
that smoke drugs with a drug dealer to catch him with drugs...we prefer
to prevent farming by running normal servers that are full of folks that
want to play, rather than hosting achievement maps.
Good luck to you, by the end of the week no one will want to visit your
server!

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:19 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:

 This plugin is not designed to be used in a normal 24/7 2fort server or
 any normal server at all. It is designed to be used as a honeypot - a
 server that looks like a normal achievement grinding server. My server
 is running achievement_scout, and the only reason to join a server
 running that map is to farm achievements.

 If you didn't have the intention of cheating and farming achievements,
 you wouldn't be there in the first place.


 Sent from my name is Chris Hansen with Dateline NBC


 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 16:14 -0500, MONDO wrote:
  What you're saying is you'll ban anyone who gets an achievement.  So many
 of
  the achievements are obtained by simply paying the game.. right?  I have
 a
  better solution... just turn your server off!  Problem fixed!  I
 understand
  about farming, but banning anyone who gets an achievement is about the
 most
  foolish thing I've heard.  It saddens me that you used your talent at
  scripting to write such silliness.
 
  On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Blood Letter 
 bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.comwrote:
 
  
   Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?
  
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
   
Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server...
 Or
wait... No, I won't.
Have fun with an empty server.
   
Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
   
msleeper schrieb:
 I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban
 anyone
 who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other
 admins
   out
 there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this
 is
 step one.

 I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out
   last
 night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught
 and
 stopped.

 The plugin is here:
   http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
 My publicly available list of farmers is here:
 http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

 I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal
 opinions
 about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is
   wrong,
 but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.


 Sent from my honeypot


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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

BTW the unlocker whatever the fuck that is, is as lame as your plugin. Some
how though your just a teeny bit more lame
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot


If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then being banned 
from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish ass.

You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm achievements - 
they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / simultaneous achievements) 
achievement (and probably progress towards others) before being banned.

You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many achievements as 
other full achievement farming servers (maybe a little less due to overhead - 
since they have to go find another server afterward, etc.).

You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a public list, 
but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many other admins) would be 
hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.  The vast majority of servers will 
NOT benefit from this list because most will never be aware of the list, let 
alone be able to import it easily (most servers are NOT running 
sourcebans/sourcemod with sql/etc.).

You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a certain way.  
That's fine, but you won't get much support for your cause, especially with 
the way you are doing things.  Simply setting up another server (instead of the 
honeypot) would be a far more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.

The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock than to 
grind for achievements.
I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and whatever 
other crap is added to games to make them longer, force grinding, or promote 
social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact that a GAME is intentionally turned 
into a chore to keep players playing is a slap in the face.  It works though, 
because people feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li, 
and the Ubersaw.

It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how people enjoy 
their game.  You imposing your view of the game on your servers is fine, but I 
hope you realize that you're providing an achievement server which has let 
thousands of achievements be farmed, and that those farmers (who you claim to 
despise, hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the TF2 community (ass), 
while you and your servers are walled off from them (selfish).

 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a delay
 between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't know what
 is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming server.
 
 
 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100, Bengt Rosenberger wrote:
  Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or 
  wait... No, I won't.
  Have fun with an empty server.
  
  Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
  
  msleeper schrieb:
   I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
   who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins out
   there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
   step one.
  
   I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out last
   night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
   stopped.
  
   The plugin is here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
   My publicly available list of farmers is here:
   http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html
  
   I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
   about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is wrong,
   but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.
  
  
   Sent from my honeypot
  
  
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   please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Darren Gordon

Ok so how is farming cheating?  I want you to explain this to me.

If an achievement says kill 3 people while ubercharged and you do  
it, regardless of whether or not you're in a real game how are you  
not accomplishing it?  I have yet to see kill 3 people, while  
ubercharged, on cp_well with the score 0-1 with 4:32 left on the  
clock as an achievement.

This is probably the worst plugin I've ever seen.  It's mind blowing  
to me that you're so worried about people getting unlockable weapons  
that you'll ban them over it.

Complacency towards farming is probably my favorite phrase ever  
now.  I can't believe you were serious when you typed that up.


On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:29 PM, msleeper wrote:

 Not having the time isn't a justifiable reason to cheat. Sorry.


 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 16:22 -0500, Aj Collins wrote:
 If Valve wanted to stop achievement farming servers, they would  
 have set up
 a server blacklist a long, long time ago. Besides, there are people  
 who just
 don't have the time (some people actually have a life and work!) to  
 spend
 killing millions of people to unlock an achievement. By the time  
 that they
 do, the game will most likely be replaced with the next  
 installment. Also,
 unlocks are a crock of crap to new players as they will get pissed  
 off and
 leave by older, younger players having more powerful guns while  
 they have
 shit guns. If achievement farming on farming servers keeps them  
 playing back
 in my or someone else's server, I'm all for it.

 On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:11 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com  
 wrote:

 I have a really strong feeling that Valve has found a way to catch
 people who use that too, now that everything is using the Steam  
 Cloud.
 The fact that they caught people who used the weapon glitch, and  
 that
 they are awaiting the ways we will disappoint them give me hope  
 that
 they finally have.

 http://teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2262

 Maybe honest players will finally prevail.



 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:04 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
 Why farm when you can just use the unlocker?

 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:01:52 +0100
 From: bengt.rosenber...@gmx.de
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming  
 server... Or
 wait... No, I won't.
 Have fun with an empty server.

 Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...

 msleeper schrieb:
 I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban
 anyone
 who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other  
 admins
 out
 there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end,  
 this
 is
 step one.

 I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came  
 out
 last
 night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been  
 caught and
 stopped.

 The plugin is here:
 http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
 My publicly available list of farmers is here:
 http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

 I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal
 opinions
 about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is
 wrong,
 but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.


 Sent from my honeypot


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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
complacent about it.

Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)

The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.

I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.



On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
 If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then being banned 
 from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish ass.
 
 You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm achievements - 
 they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / simultaneous achievements) 
 achievement (and probably progress towards others) before being banned.
 
 You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many achievements 
 as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a little less due to 
 overhead - since they have to go find another server afterward, etc.).
 
 You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a public list, 
 but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many other admins) would be 
 hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.  The vast majority of servers 
 will NOT benefit from this list because most will never be aware of the list, 
 let alone be able to import it easily (most servers are NOT running 
 sourcebans/sourcemod with sql/etc.).
 
 You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a certain way.  
 That's fine, but you won't get much support for your cause, especially with 
 the way you are doing things.  Simply setting up another server (instead of 
 the honeypot) would be a far more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.
 
 The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock than to 
 grind for achievements.
 I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and whatever 
 other crap is added to games to make them longer, force grinding, or promote 
 social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact that a GAME is intentionally 
 turned into a chore to keep players playing is a slap in the face.  It works 
 though, because people feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for 
 Chun-Li, and the Ubersaw.
 
 It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how people 
 enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on your servers is 
 fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing an achievement server 
 which has let thousands of achievements be farmed, and that those farmers 
 (who you claim to despise, hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the 
 TF2 community (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them 
 (selfish).
 
  From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
  My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a delay
  between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't know what
  is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming server.
  
  
  On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100, Bengt Rosenberger wrote:
   Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or 
   wait... No, I won't.
   Have fun with an empty server.
   
   Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
   
   msleeper schrieb:
I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins out
there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
step one.
   
I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out last
night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
stopped.
   
The plugin is here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
My publicly available list of farmers is here:
http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html
   
I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is wrong,
but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.
   
   
Sent from my honeypot
   
   
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please visit:
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Darren Gordon

Ok good, that means I can say

You're the worst server admin ever.


And not have to follow up.


On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:45 PM, msleeper wrote:

 I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
 to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
 complacent about it.

 Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the  
 definition:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)

 The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
 achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.

 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.



 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
 If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then  
 being banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical,  
 selfish ass.

 You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm  
 achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay /  
 simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress  
 towards others) before being banned.

 You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many  
 achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a  
 little less due to overhead - since they have to go find another  
 server afterward, etc.).

 You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a  
 public list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many  
 other admins) would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000  
 bans.  The vast majority of servers will NOT benefit from this list  
 because most will never be aware of the list, let alone be able to  
 import it easily (most servers are NOT running sourcebans/sourcemod  
 with sql/etc.).

 You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a  
 certain way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your  
 cause, especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply  
 setting up another server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far  
 more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.

 The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock  
 than to grind for achievements.
 I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and  
 whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force  
 grinding, or promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact  
 that a GAME is intentionally turned into a chore to keep players  
 playing is a slap in the face.  It works though, because people  
 feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li, and  
 the Ubersaw.

 It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how  
 people enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on  
 your servers is fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing  
 an achievement server which has let thousands of achievements be  
 farmed, and that those farmers (who you claim to despise,  
 hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the TF2 community  
 (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them (selfish).

 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a  
 delay
 between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't know  
 what
 is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming server.


 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100, Bengt Rosenberger wrote:
 Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming  
 server... Or
 wait... No, I won't.
 Have fun with an empty server.

 Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...

 msleeper schrieb:
 I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban  
 anyone
 who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other  
 admins out
 there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end,  
 this is
 step one.

 I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came  
 out last
 night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been  
 caught and
 stopped.

 The plugin is here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
 My publicly available list of farmers is here:
 http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

 I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal  
 opinions
 about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers  
 is wrong,
 but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.


 Sent from my honeypot


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 archives, please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds




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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Chris Oryschak

I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.

lol.  In previous threads this is you.  Tables turned and don't like it?

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:45 PM
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
complacent about it.

Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)

The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.

I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.

On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
 If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then being banned 
 from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish ass.

 You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm achievements - 
 they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / simultaneous achievements) 
 achievement (and probably progress towards others) before being banned.

 You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many achievements 
 as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a little less due to 
 overhead - since they have to go find another server afterward, etc.).

 You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a public list, 
 but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many other admins) would be 
 hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.  The vast majority of servers 
 will NOT benefit from this list because most will never be aware of the list, 
 let alone be able to import it easily (most servers are NOT running 
 sourcebans/sourcemod with sql/etc.).

 You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a certain way.  
 That's fine, but you won't get much support for your cause, especially with 
 the way you are doing things.  Simply setting up another server (instead of 
 the honeypot) would be a far more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.

 The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock than to 
 grind for achievements.
 I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and whatever 
 other crap is added to games to make them longer, force grinding, or promote 
 social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact that a GAME is intentionally 
 turned into a chore to keep players playing is a slap in the face.  It works 
 though, because people feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for 
 Chun-Li, and the Ubersaw.

 It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how people 
 enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on your servers is 
 fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing an achievement server 
 which has let thousands of achievements be farmed, and that those farmers 
 (who you claim to despise, hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the 
 TF2 community (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them 
 (selfish).

  From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

  My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a delay
  between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't know what
  is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming server.

  On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100, Bengt Rosenberger wrote:
   Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or 
   wait... No, I won't.
   Have fun with an empty server.

   Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...

   msleeper schrieb:
I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban anyone
who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins out
there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
step one.

I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out last
night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
stopped.

The plugin is here: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
My publicly available list of farmers is here:
http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal opinions
about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is wrong,
but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.

Sent from my honeypot

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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

Not only are you the worst server admin ever, You are also a GIGANTIC ASS.
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

No, I just don't want to spam the list when I feel I am doing good in
the world, plus we are having fun attacking me in IRC and it's hard to
keep up with emails.



On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 16:55 -0500, Chris Oryschak wrote:
 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.
 
 lol.  In previous threads this is you.  Tables turned and don't like it?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com 
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper
 Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:45 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
 to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
 complacent about it.
 
 Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the definition:
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)
 
 The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
 achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.
 
 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.
 
 
 
 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then being 
  banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish ass.
  
  You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm achievements 
  - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / simultaneous 
  achievements) achievement (and probably progress towards others) before 
  being banned.
  
  You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many 
  achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a little less 
  due to overhead - since they have to go find another server afterward, 
  etc.).
  
  You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a public 
  list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many other admins) 
  would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.  The vast majority of 
  servers will NOT benefit from this list because most will never be aware of 
  the list, let alone be able to import it easily (most servers are NOT 
  running sourcebans/sourcemod with sql/etc.).
  
  You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a certain 
  way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your cause, 
  especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply setting up another 
  server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far more beneficial to the TF2 
  community as a whole.
  
  The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock than to 
  grind for achievements.
  I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and whatever 
  other crap is added to games to make them longer, force grinding, or 
  promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact that a GAME is 
  intentionally turned into a chore to keep players playing is a slap in the 
  face.  It works though, because people feel they need that epic mount, that 
  extra costume for Chun-Li, and the Ubersaw.
  
  It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how people 
  enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on your servers is 
  fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing an achievement server 
  which has let thousands of achievements be farmed, and that those farmers 
  (who you claim to despise, hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the 
  TF2 community (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them 
  (selfish).
  
   From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
   
   My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a delay
   between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't know what
   is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming server.
   
   
   On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100, Bengt Rosenberger wrote:
Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server... Or 
wait... No, I won't.
Have fun with an empty server.

Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...

msleeper schrieb:
 I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban 
 anyone
 who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other admins 
 out
 there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this is
 step one.

 I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came out 
 last
 night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught and
 stopped.

 The plugin is here: 
 http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
 My publicly available list of farmers is here:
 http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

 I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal 
 opinions
 about whether or not farming

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

Dont forget to go to the alied forums and his plugin page
http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402

sign up and NUKE his Karma
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Alex

good job msleeper

good idea. keep working on it

2009/2/25 Darren Gordon dar...@spec907.net

 Ok good, that means I can say

 You're the worst server admin ever.


 And not have to follow up.


 On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:45 PM, msleeper wrote:

  I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
  to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
  complacent about it.
 
  Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the
  definition:
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29
 
  The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
  achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.
 
  I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.
 
 
 
  On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then
  being banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical,
  selfish ass.
 
  You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm
  achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay /
  simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress
  towards others) before being banned.
 
  You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many
  achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a
  little less due to overhead - since they have to go find another
  server afterward, etc.).
 
  You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a
  public list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many
  other admins) would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000
  bans.  The vast majority of servers will NOT benefit from this list
  because most will never be aware of the list, let alone be able to
  import it easily (most servers are NOT running sourcebans/sourcemod
  with sql/etc.).
 
  You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a
  certain way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your
  cause, especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply
  setting up another server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far
  more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.
 
  The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock
  than to grind for achievements.
  I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and
  whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force
  grinding, or promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact
  that a GAME is intentionally turned into a chore to keep players
  playing is a slap in the face.  It works though, because people
  feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li, and
  the Ubersaw.
 
  It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how
  people enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on
  your servers is fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing
  an achievement server which has let thousands of achievements be
  farmed, and that those farmers (who you claim to despise,
  hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the TF2 community
  (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them (selfish).
 
  From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
  My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a
  delay
  between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't know
  what
  is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming server.
 
 
  On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100, Bengt Rosenberger wrote:
  Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming
  server... Or
  wait... No, I won't.
  Have fun with an empty server.
 
  Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
 
  msleeper schrieb:
  I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban
  anyone
  who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other
  admins out
  there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end,
  this is
  step one.
 
  I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came
  out last
  night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been
  caught and
  stopped.
 
  The plugin is here:
 http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
  My publicly available list of farmers is here:
  http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html
 
  I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal
  opinions
  about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers
  is wrong,
  but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC.
 
 
  Sent from my honeypot
 
 
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  archives, please visit:
  http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
 
 
 
 
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Caleb Champlin

msleeper, who died and made you valve. I believe the game creators are fully
capable of limiting farming if they really felt it was needed. As reputable
as you may think you are, who in their right mind would trust of a list of
bans from some guy on the internet, for all we know you are distributing a
banlist of people whom you have some kind of personal conflict with.

This plugin is a joke, baiting people to a server to simply ban them is
ludicrous, you are the definition of an a-hole admin who thinks running
servers makes them god. In my opinion it seems just as reasonable that your
servers, and any other communities that run plugins like this should
themselves be blacklisted.

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Chris Oryschak ch...@oryschak.com wrote:

 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.

 lol.  In previous threads this is you.  Tables turned and don't like it?

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:
 hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper
 Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:45 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
 to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
 complacent about it.

 Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the definition:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)

 The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
 achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.

 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.



 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then being
 banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish ass.
 
  You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm
 achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / simultaneous
 achievements) achievement (and probably progress towards others) before
 being banned.
 
  You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many
 achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a little less
 due to overhead - since they have to go find another server afterward,
 etc.).
 
  You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a public
 list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many other admins) would
 be hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.  The vast majority of
 servers will NOT benefit from this list because most will never be aware of
 the list, let alone be able to import it easily (most servers are NOT
 running sourcebans/sourcemod with sql/etc.).
 
  You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a certain
 way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your cause,
 especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply setting up another
 server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far more beneficial to the TF2
 community as a whole.
 
  The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock than
 to grind for achievements.
  I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and
 whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force grinding,
 or promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact that a GAME is
 intentionally turned into a chore to keep players playing is a slap in the
 face.  It works though, because people feel they need that epic mount, that
 extra costume for Chun-Li, and the Ubersaw.
 
  It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how people
 enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on your servers is
 fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing an achievement server
 which has let thousands of achievements be farmed, and that those farmers
 (who you claim to despise, hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the
 TF2 community (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them
 (selfish).
 
   From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
   My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a delay
   between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't know what
   is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming server.
  
  
   On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100, Bengt Rosenberger wrote:
Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming server...
 Or
wait... No, I won't.
Have fun with an empty server.
   
Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server...
   
msleeper schrieb:
 I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban
 anyone
 who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other
 admins out
 there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, this
 is
 step one.

 I have been running this since

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Patrick O

Cheating is typically defined as violating the rules of the game
dishonestly. Valve's intention with the unlockables is to provide
alternatives that would be advantageous over the original weapons in
certain situations and detrimental in others. To use a MMO term, they
are side-grades. In my personal opinion, achievement farmers are not
gaining an unfair advantage over other players by accessing their
unlockable side-grades more quickly than regular players. Therefore
they aren't cheating.

What I hate about achievement farmers is when they try to farm
achievements in a regular pub game. I feel that they sometimes ruin
the game play experience for everyone else in the server. I believe
that achievement farming servers are sort of a good thing, as they
remove a lot of the achievement farmers from the regular pub servers.
I'd much rather have achievement farming servers than no achievement
farming servers with a bunch of farmers in a pub game. It is the
lesser of two evils, I suppose.

However, what you do with your servers is your own business, and I
have no right to directly comment on how you should be running them or
what you should be doing with them. You're free to ban whoever you
want for whatever reason. Just offering my own two cents on the whole
overly issue.

Apologies to the list, I'm too lazy to find what irc channel you are
residing in to discuss it there.

Patrick



On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Clyde cide thedrunkenbraw...@gmail.com wrote:
 BTW the unlocker whatever the fuck that is, is as lame as your plugin. Some
 how though your just a teeny bit more lame
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Adam Abel

1890 people you realize you just banned basically everyone who's going
to be playing on your server.  Not saying achievement farming isn't bad,
but most people I've played with when someone is achievement farmer the
rest of the team helps out that person.  It's not a problem.  
-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of
hlds-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:01 PM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: hlds Digest, Vol 12, Issue 182

Send hlds mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than Re: Contents of hlds digest...

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Achievement Farmer Honeypot (Clyde cide)
   2. Re: Achievement Farmer Honeypot (msleeper)
   3. Re: Achievement Farmer Honeypot (Clyde cide)
   4. Re: Achievement Farmer Honeypot (Alex)
   5. Re: Neph's Plugin (Fudgstu)
   6. Re: Achievement Farmer Honeypot (Caleb Champlin)

--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:49:55 -0500
From: Clyde cide thedrunkenbraw...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Message-ID:
b8ccf1c80902251349p2d88acaehbc822141e531f...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Not only are you the worst server admin ever, You are also a GIGANTIC
ASS.

--

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:56:02 -0500
From: msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Message-ID:
1235598962.11842.22.ca...@svm.conepuppy.com.conepuppy.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

No, I just don't want to spam the list when I feel I am doing good in
the world, plus we are having fun attacking me in IRC and it's hard to
keep up with emails.

On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 16:55 -0500, Chris Oryschak wrote:
 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.

 lol.  In previous threads this is you.  Tables turned and don't like
it?

 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper
 Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:45 PM
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
 to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
 complacent about it.

 Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the
definition:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)

 The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
 achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.

 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.

 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then
being banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish
ass.

  You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm
achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay /
simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress towards
others) before being banned.

  You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many
achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a little
less due to overhead - since they have to go find another server
afterward, etc.).

  You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a
public list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many other
admins) would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.  The vast
majority of servers will NOT benefit from this list because most will
never be aware of the list, let alone be able to import it easily (most
servers are NOT running sourcebans/sourcemod with sql/etc.).

  You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a
certain way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your
cause, especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply setting
up another server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far more
beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.

  The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock
than to grind for achievements.
  I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and
whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force
grinding, or promote social/web 2.0

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Kitteny Berk

I feel I am doing good in the world

I'm gonna have to invoke godwin's law here.

I bet Hitler thought he was doing good in the world too.

msleeper wrote:
 No, I just don't want to spam the list when I feel I am doing good in
 the world, plus we are having fun attacking me in IRC and it's hard to
 keep up with emails.

   

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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread MeZelf

If it would be for some ban list that is authoritive for like 100+ servers
than this might a nice thing to run... but still not against farming.
But I also fail to see the point in doing this if you keep the ban list it
produces just to yourselves.
Because I don't recall reading you saying that you're going to put your list
up for usage on other servers.

I gave up on the 1.000.000 healing and 1.000.000 fire damage for example.
Those are impossible to make in normal serverplay.
I 'farmed' a couple of achievements too took me about 3 days (8 hours in
total during the weekend) and I still wasn't really getting closer to the
1.000.000 healing/fire.
Although I did get 15 achievements... big deal considering there are about
134 to earn.

PS Sent from my honeypot
That only makes me want to lookup your server IP and avoid it like the
plague ~_^

MeZelf
 

-Original Message-
From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alex
Sent: woensdag 25 februari 2009 22:55
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

good job msleeper

good idea. keep working on it

2009/2/25 Darren Gordon dar...@spec907.net

 Ok good, that means I can say

 You're the worst server admin ever.


 And not have to follow up.


 On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:45 PM, msleeper wrote:

  I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are 
  numb to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is 
  being complacent about it.
 
  Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the
  definition:
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)http://en.wikipedi
  a.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29
 
  The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other 
  achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.
 
  I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.
 
 
 
  On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then 
  being banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, 
  selfish ass.
 
  You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm 
  achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / 
  simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress 
  towards others) before being banned.
 
  You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many 
  achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a 
  little less due to overhead - since they have to go find another 
  server afterward, etc.).
 
  You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a 
  public list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many 
  other admins) would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.  
  The vast majority of servers will NOT benefit from this list 
  because most will never be aware of the list, let alone be able to 
  import it easily (most servers are NOT running sourcebans/sourcemod 
  with sql/etc.).
 
  You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a 
  certain way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your 
  cause, especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply 
  setting up another server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far 
  more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.
 
  The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock 
  than to grind for achievements.
  I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and 
  whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force 
  grinding, or promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact 
  that a GAME is intentionally turned into a chore to keep players 
  playing is a slap in the face.  It works though, because people 
  feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li, and 
  the Ubersaw.
 
  It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how 
  people enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on 
  your servers is fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing 
  an achievement server which has let thousands of achievements be 
  farmed, and that those farmers (who you claim to despise,
  hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the TF2 community 
  (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them (selfish).
 
  From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
  My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a 
  delay between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't 
  know what is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming 
  server.
 
 
  On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100, Bengt Rosenberger wrote:
  Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming 
  server... Or wait... No, I won't.
  Have fun with an empty server.
 
  Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

The banlist isn't private. I have them all listed below, and if anyone
wants the full banlist in SQL format, email me privately off-list and
I'll happily give it out.



On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 23:17 +0100, MeZelf wrote:
 If it would be for some ban list that is authoritive for like 100+ servers
 than this might a nice thing to run... but still not against farming.
 But I also fail to see the point in doing this if you keep the ban list it
 produces just to yourselves.
 Because I don't recall reading you saying that you're going to put your list
 up for usage on other servers.
 
 I gave up on the 1.000.000 healing and 1.000.000 fire damage for example.
 Those are impossible to make in normal serverplay.
 I 'farmed' a couple of achievements too took me about 3 days (8 hours in
 total during the weekend) and I still wasn't really getting closer to the
 1.000.000 healing/fire.
 Although I did get 15 achievements... big deal considering there are about
 134 to earn.
 
 PS Sent from my honeypot
 That only makes me want to lookup your server IP and avoid it like the
 plague ~_^
 
 MeZelf
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alex
 Sent: woensdag 25 februari 2009 22:55
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 good job msleeper
 
 good idea. keep working on it
 
 2009/2/25 Darren Gordon dar...@spec907.net
 
  Ok good, that means I can say
 
  You're the worst server admin ever.
 
 
  And not have to follow up.
 
 
  On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:45 PM, msleeper wrote:
 
   I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are 
   numb to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is 
   being complacent about it.
  
   Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the
   definition:
  
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)http://en.wikipedi
   a.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29
  
   The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other 
   achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.
  
   I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.
  
  
  
   On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
   If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then 
   being banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, 
   selfish ass.
  
   You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm 
   achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / 
   simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress 
   towards others) before being banned.
  
   You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many 
   achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a 
   little less due to overhead - since they have to go find another 
   server afterward, etc.).
  
   You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a 
   public list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many 
   other admins) would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.  
   The vast majority of servers will NOT benefit from this list 
   because most will never be aware of the list, let alone be able to 
   import it easily (most servers are NOT running sourcebans/sourcemod 
   with sql/etc.).
  
   You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a 
   certain way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your 
   cause, especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply 
   setting up another server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far 
   more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.
  
   The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock 
   than to grind for achievements.
   I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and 
   whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force 
   grinding, or promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact 
   that a GAME is intentionally turned into a chore to keep players 
   playing is a slap in the face.  It works though, because people 
   feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li, and 
   the Ubersaw.
  
   It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how 
   people enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on 
   your servers is fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing 
   an achievement server which has let thousands of achievements be 
   farmed, and that those farmers (who you claim to despise,
   hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the TF2 community 
   (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them (selfish).
  
   From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
   To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
   Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
   Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
   My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a 
   delay between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Yatin Vadhia

Stupid. Idea.

Regards

Yatin

On 25 Feb 2009, at 22:24, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:

 The banlist isn't private. I have them all listed below, and if anyone
 wants the full banlist in SQL format, email me privately off-list and
 I'll happily give it out.



 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 23:17 +0100, MeZelf wrote:
 If it would be for some ban list that is authoritive for like 100+  
 servers
 than this might a nice thing to run... but still not against farming.
 But I also fail to see the point in doing this if you keep the ban  
 list it
 produces just to yourselves.
 Because I don't recall reading you saying that you're going to put  
 your list
 up for usage on other servers.

 I gave up on the 1.000.000 healing and 1.000.000 fire damage for  
 example.
 Those are impossible to make in normal serverplay.
 I 'farmed' a couple of achievements too took me about 3 days (8  
 hours in
 total during the weekend) and I still wasn't really getting closer  
 to the
 1.000.000 healing/fire.
 Although I did get 15 achievements... big deal considering there  
 are about
 134 to earn.

 PS Sent from my honeypot
 That only makes me want to lookup your server IP and avoid it like  
 the
 plague ~_^

 MeZelf


 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alex
 Sent: woensdag 25 februari 2009 22:55
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 good job msleeper

 good idea. keep working on it

 2009/2/25 Darren Gordon dar...@spec907.net

 Ok good, that means I can say

 You're the worst server admin ever.


 And not have to follow up.


 On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:45 PM, msleeper wrote:

 I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are
 numb to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone  
 is
 being complacent about it.

 Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the
 definition:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)http:// 
 en.wikipedi
 a.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29

 The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
 achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.

 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.



 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
 If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then
 being banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical,
 selfish ass.

 You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm
 achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay /
 simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress
 towards others) before being banned.

 You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many
 achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a
 little less due to overhead - since they have to go find another
 server afterward, etc.).

 You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a
 public list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many
 other admins) would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000  
 bans.
 The vast majority of servers will NOT benefit from this list
 because most will never be aware of the list, let alone be able to
 import it easily (most servers are NOT running sourcebans/ 
 sourcemod
 with sql/etc.).

 You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a
 certain way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your
 cause, especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply
 setting up another server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far
 more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.

 The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock
 than to grind for achievements.
 I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and
 whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force
 grinding, or promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact
 that a GAME is intentionally turned into a chore to keep players
 playing is a slap in the face.  It works though, because people
 feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li,  
 and
 the Ubersaw.

 It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how
 people enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on
 your servers is fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing
 an achievement server which has let thousands of achievements be
 farmed, and that those farmers (who you claim to despise,
 hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the TF2 community
 (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them  
 (selfish).

 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a
 delay between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers  
 don't
 know what is going on. My server looks 100% like any

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Mike Stiehm

The sent from my honeypot is him trying to make fun of people that  
interact with the list via iPhone.

What a crazy idea... To get email on an iPhone

I think it just sounds stupid myself

KennyLoggins
ClanAO.com

On Feb 25, 2009, at 4:17 PM, MeZelf email4for...@mezelf.com wrote:

 If it would be for some ban list that is authoritive for like 100+  
 servers
 than this might a nice thing to run... but still not against farming.
 But I also fail to see the point in doing this if you keep the ban  
 list it
 produces just to yourselves.
 Because I don't recall reading you saying that you're going to put  
 your list
 up for usage on other servers.

 I gave up on the 1.000.000 healing and 1.000.000 fire damage for  
 example.
 Those are impossible to make in normal serverplay.
 I 'farmed' a couple of achievements too took me about 3 days (8  
 hours in
 total during the weekend) and I still wasn't really getting closer  
 to the
 1.000.000 healing/fire.
 Although I did get 15 achievements... big deal considering there are  
 about
 134 to earn.

 PS Sent from my honeypot
 That only makes me want to lookup your server IP and avoid it like the
 plague ~_^

 MeZelf


 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alex
 Sent: woensdag 25 februari 2009 22:55
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 good job msleeper

 good idea. keep working on it

 2009/2/25 Darren Gordon dar...@spec907.net

 Ok good, that means I can say

 You're the worst server admin ever.


 And not have to follow up.


 On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:45 PM, msleeper wrote:

 I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are
 numb to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is
 being complacent about it.

 Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the
 definition:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)http://en.wikipedi
 a.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29

 The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
 achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.

 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.



 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
 If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then
 being banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical,
 selfish ass.

 You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm
 achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay /
 simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress
 towards others) before being banned.

 You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many
 achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a
 little less due to overhead - since they have to go find another
 server afterward, etc.).

 You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a
 public list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many
 other admins) would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.
 The vast majority of servers will NOT benefit from this list
 because most will never be aware of the list, let alone be able to
 import it easily (most servers are NOT running sourcebans/sourcemod
 with sql/etc.).

 You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a
 certain way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your
 cause, especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply
 setting up another server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far
 more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.

 The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock
 than to grind for achievements.
 I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and
 whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force
 grinding, or promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact
 that a GAME is intentionally turned into a chore to keep players
 playing is a slap in the face.  It works though, because people
 feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li, and
 the Ubersaw.

 It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how
 people enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on
 your servers is fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing
 an achievement server which has let thousands of achievements be
 farmed, and that those farmers (who you claim to despise,
 hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the TF2 community
 (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them  
 (selfish).

 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a
 delay between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't
 know what is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming
 server.


 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Darren Gordon

I think we get that.

That doesn't make the joke any less stupid.

On Feb 25, 2009, at 2:32 PM, Mike Stiehm wrote:

 The sent from my honeypot is him trying to make fun of people that
 interact with the list via iPhone.

 What a crazy idea... To get email on an iPhone

 I think it just sounds stupid myself

 KennyLoggins
 ClanAO.com

 On Feb 25, 2009, at 4:17 PM, MeZelf email4for...@mezelf.com wrote:

 If it would be for some ban list that is authoritive for like 100+
 servers
 than this might a nice thing to run... but still not against farming.
 But I also fail to see the point in doing this if you keep the ban
 list it
 produces just to yourselves.
 Because I don't recall reading you saying that you're going to put
 your list
 up for usage on other servers.

 I gave up on the 1.000.000 healing and 1.000.000 fire damage for
 example.
 Those are impossible to make in normal serverplay.
 I 'farmed' a couple of achievements too took me about 3 days (8
 hours in
 total during the weekend) and I still wasn't really getting closer
 to the
 1.000.000 healing/fire.
 Although I did get 15 achievements... big deal considering there are
 about
 134 to earn.

 PS Sent from my honeypot
 That only makes me want to lookup your server IP and avoid it like  
 the
 plague ~_^

 MeZelf


 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alex
 Sent: woensdag 25 februari 2009 22:55
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 good job msleeper

 good idea. keep working on it

 2009/2/25 Darren Gordon dar...@spec907.net

 Ok good, that means I can say

 You're the worst server admin ever.


 And not have to follow up.


 On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:45 PM, msleeper wrote:

 I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are
 numb to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone  
 is
 being complacent about it.

 Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the
 definition:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)http:// 
 en.wikipedi
 a.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29

 The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
 achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.

 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.



 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
 If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then
 being banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical,
 selfish ass.

 You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm
 achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay /
 simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress
 towards others) before being banned.

 You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many
 achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a
 little less due to overhead - since they have to go find another
 server afterward, etc.).

 You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a
 public list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many
 other admins) would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000  
 bans.
 The vast majority of servers will NOT benefit from this list
 because most will never be aware of the list, let alone be able to
 import it easily (most servers are NOT running sourcebans/ 
 sourcemod
 with sql/etc.).

 You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a
 certain way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your
 cause, especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply
 setting up another server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far
 more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.

 The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock
 than to grind for achievements.
 I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and
 whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force
 grinding, or promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact
 that a GAME is intentionally turned into a chore to keep players
 playing is a slap in the face.  It works though, because people
 feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li,  
 and
 the Ubersaw.

 It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how
 people enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on
 your servers is fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing
 an achievement server which has let thousands of achievements be
 farmed, and that those farmers (who you claim to despise,
 hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the TF2 community
 (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them
 (selfish).

 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a
 delay between achievement earned and banning, so

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Neil Voutt

i love my iphone :D

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Mike Stiehm mikesti...@gmail.com wrote:

 The sent from my honeypot is him trying to make fun of people that
 interact with the list via iPhone.

 What a crazy idea... To get email on an iPhone

 I think it just sounds stupid myself

 KennyLoggins
 ClanAO.com

 On Feb 25, 2009, at 4:17 PM, MeZelf email4for...@mezelf.com wrote:

  If it would be for some ban list that is authoritive for like 100+
  servers
  than this might a nice thing to run... but still not against farming.
  But I also fail to see the point in doing this if you keep the ban
  list it
  produces just to yourselves.
  Because I don't recall reading you saying that you're going to put
  your list
  up for usage on other servers.
 
  I gave up on the 1.000.000 healing and 1.000.000 fire damage for
  example.
  Those are impossible to make in normal serverplay.
  I 'farmed' a couple of achievements too took me about 3 days (8
  hours in
  total during the weekend) and I still wasn't really getting closer
  to the
  1.000.000 healing/fire.
  Although I did get 15 achievements... big deal considering there are
  about
  134 to earn.
 
  PS Sent from my honeypot
  That only makes me want to lookup your server IP and avoid it like the
  plague ~_^
 
  MeZelf
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
  [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alex
  Sent: woensdag 25 februari 2009 22:55
  To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
  good job msleeper
 
  good idea. keep working on it
 
  2009/2/25 Darren Gordon dar...@spec907.net
 
  Ok good, that means I can say
 
  You're the worst server admin ever.
 
 
  And not have to follow up.
 
 
  On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:45 PM, msleeper wrote:
 
  I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are
  numb to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is
  being complacent about it.
 
  Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the
  definition:
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29
 http://en.wikipedi
  a.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29
 
  The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
  achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.
 
  I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.
 
 
 
  On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then
  being banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical,
  selfish ass.
 
  You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm
  achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay /
  simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress
  towards others) before being banned.
 
  You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many
  achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a
  little less due to overhead - since they have to go find another
  server afterward, etc.).
 
  You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a
  public list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many
  other admins) would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.
  The vast majority of servers will NOT benefit from this list
  because most will never be aware of the list, let alone be able to
  import it easily (most servers are NOT running sourcebans/sourcemod
  with sql/etc.).
 
  You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a
  certain way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your
  cause, especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply
  setting up another server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far
  more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.
 
  The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock
  than to grind for achievements.
  I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and
  whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force
  grinding, or promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact
  that a GAME is intentionally turned into a chore to keep players
  playing is a slap in the face.  It works though, because people
  feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li, and
  the Ubersaw.
 
  It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how
  people enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on
  your servers is fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing
  an achievement server which has let thousands of achievements be
  farmed, and that those farmers (who you claim to despise,
  hypocrite) are then set loose on the rest of the TF2 community
  (ass), while you and your servers are walled off from them
  (selfish).
 
  From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Patrick Shelley

Still on your personal quest to redefine stupidity i see sleeper

Rudeness aside, i didn't need a live server to achieve 18 scout achievements
within 30 mins after the update came out..

I used my personal achievements_master_map.bsp locally which has a set of
sophisticated logic relays to set up everything needed within 40 secs of the
map starting!

Why? I have a life, 3 kids, work and don't have time to do these
legitimately.


sent from my dirty laundry basket
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Fudgstu

I have a locked server set up for our community to farm achievements.  We
have 2 pub servers and I would rather have them get the farming out of the
way.  I hate to see 18 scouts on a 24 man server and the other players not
enjoying the game.

It's your servers msleeper, but I see that as baiting and petty and really
kind of useless to ban that many players, especially if you are trying to
promote your servers.  I would rather have players get the farming out of
the way, than to come to our rotation pub servers and be of no value to the
game play.  I would probably never import any of your bans since it's being
done in a just as dishonest way.


On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:17 PM, MeZelf email4for...@mezelf.com wrote:

 If it would be for some ban list that is authoritive for like 100+ servers
 than this might a nice thing to run... but still not against farming.
 But I also fail to see the point in doing this if you keep the ban list it
 produces just to yourselves.
 Because I don't recall reading you saying that you're going to put your
 list
 up for usage on other servers.

 I gave up on the 1.000.000 healing and 1.000.000 fire damage for example.
 Those are impossible to make in normal serverplay.
 I 'farmed' a couple of achievements too took me about 3 days (8 hours
 in
 total during the weekend) and I still wasn't really getting closer to the
 1.000.000 healing/fire.
 Although I did get 15 achievements... big deal considering there are about
 134 to earn.

 PS Sent from my honeypot
 That only makes me want to lookup your server IP and avoid it like the
 plague ~_^

 MeZelf


 -Original Message-
 From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
 [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Alex
 Sent: woensdag 25 februari 2009 22:55
 To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

 good job msleeper

 good idea. keep working on it

 2009/2/25 Darren Gordon dar...@spec907.net

  Ok good, that means I can say
 
  You're the worst server admin ever.
 
 
  And not have to follow up.
 
 
  On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:45 PM, msleeper wrote:
 
   I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are
   numb to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is
   being complacent about it.
  
   Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the
   definition:
  
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29
 http://en.wikipedi
   a.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29
  
   The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
   achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.
  
   I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.
  
  
  
   On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
   If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then
   being banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical,
   selfish ass.
  
   You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm
   achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay /
   simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress
   towards others) before being banned.
  
   You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many
   achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a
   little less due to overhead - since they have to go find another
   server afterward, etc.).
  
   You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a
   public list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many
   other admins) would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.
   The vast majority of servers will NOT benefit from this list
   because most will never be aware of the list, let alone be able to
   import it easily (most servers are NOT running sourcebans/sourcemod
   with sql/etc.).
  
   You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a
   certain way.  That's fine, but you won't get much support for your
   cause, especially with the way you are doing things.  Simply
   setting up another server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far
   more beneficial to the TF2 community as a whole.
  
   The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock
   than to grind for achievements.
   I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and
   whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force
   grinding, or promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap.  The mere fact
   that a GAME is intentionally turned into a chore to keep players
   playing is a slap in the face.  It works though, because people
   feel they need that epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li, and
   the Ubersaw.
  
   It's a difference in opinion.  You hate farmers, I don't care how
   people enjoy their game.  You imposing your view of the game on
   your servers is fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing
   an achievement server which has let thousands

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

I have a full-time job and a life and everything else, and I earned
every single Pyro achievement legitimately and I am only 3 or 4 away
from doing the same for Heavy. I already said it, not having enough
time isn't a good reason to cheat.


On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:43 +, Patrick Shelley wrote:
 Still on your personal quest to redefine stupidity i see sleeper
 
 Rudeness aside, i didn't need a live server to achieve 18 scout achievements
 within 30 mins after the update came out..
 
 I used my personal achievements_master_map.bsp locally which has a set of
 sophisticated logic relays to set up everything needed within 40 secs of the
 map starting!
 
 Why? I have a life, 3 kids, work and don't have time to do these
 legitimately.
 
 
 sent from my dirty laundry basket
 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
 visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds


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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Patrick Shelley

i dont care what you think. i dislike you and couldn't give a stuff
about you alive or dead!

On 25/02/2009, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:
 I have a full-time job and a life and everything else, and I earned
 every single Pyro achievement legitimately and I am only 3 or 4 away
 from doing the same for Heavy. I already said it, not having enough
 time isn't a good reason to cheat.


 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:43 +, Patrick Shelley wrote:
 Still on your personal quest to redefine stupidity i see sleeper

 Rudeness aside, i didn't need a live server to achieve 18 scout
 achievements
 within 30 mins after the update came out..

 I used my personal achievements_master_map.bsp locally which has a set of
 sophisticated logic relays to set up everything needed within 40 secs of
 the
 map starting!

 Why? I have a life, 3 kids, work and don't have time to do these
 legitimately.

 
 sent from my dirty laundry basket
 ___
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 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds


 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
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-- 
Sent from my mobile device

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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot


Your honeypot is more about you feeling like you have control than it is about 
bettering the community or taking a stand.

I am not missing the point of a honeypot.  I am a degree-wielding computer 
scientist, I know full well what a honeypot is.
I also know that actual honeypots are looked down upon in the security sector 
and are pretty much useless (legally) when it comes to actually following 
through and taking action.  They are a useful approach in terms of improving 
security (through statistical research), but since you're not Valve you're not 
really going to improve the core problem, are you?

It's obvious you haven't thought things through.
You state (I believe it was in your A-M thread) that the only reason people 
join servers running achievement maps is to farm.

This is an incorrect assumption, but, even taking it to be true:

-Why wait for people to earn an achievement before banning them?  Just ban them 
on join.
--The answer is because you want it to be full so you can get more to join and 
thus ban more.

-So why not just report false clients?  Perhaps Dan from Circle-X can help you 
out.  He posts here.  Though he still maintains that their servers are vanilla 
and absolutely don't report fake clients have fast respawns or shuffle you off 
to other servers.
--The answer is because you actually want to toy with people and then deny them 
things.  You enjoy wielding your power, and you will do so arbitrarily and with 
an inflated sense of self-righteousness.  You are the worst kind of admin.  You 
are as much of a problem to TF2 as the farmers, griefers, and exploiters.

As to why your assumption is incorrect:

Many people will simply join an achievement box to meet up with friends (right 
click friend, view game info, join!).
Many people will simply join a server based on ping and player count, and not 
the map.
Many people will not know what an achievement box map is, or that is considered 
a bad thing.

If your argument is that people should know better, then I'd like to ask you 
about all the NEW players that will be playing TF2.  If a free weekend is upon 
us, then there will be a lot of new players.  Should someone be banned from 
your servers just because they joined your honeypot?  Should they be banned 
from other servers who have picked up your list?

Apparently you think it is an acceptable price to pay for maintaining what you 
think is a desirable decorum and behavior among your players.  That's fine.  
What's not fine is you trying to push your beliefs on others, or you calling 
these people cheaters, detrimental, or other such things for having a differing 
opinion about how to play a game.  If you had your way, those players would be 
banned from TF2 entirely.  You are actively trying to spread your list of over 
2000 bans.  Do you really think that all those people deserve to be banned?  
(Yes, you do:  These are known achievement farmers! Ban them NOW!)

What you claim is dubious.  Your intentions are not noble.  Your methods are 
detrimental to TF2 as a whole.
I will be looking for and joining your honeypot, then earning some achievement, 
so I never have to deal with your servers.


 From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:45:10 -0500
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
 to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
 complacent about it.
 
 Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the definition:
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)
 
 The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
 achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.
 
 I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.
 
 
 
 On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
  If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then being 
  banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish ass.
  
  You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm achievements 
  - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / simultaneous 
  achievements) achievement (and probably progress towards others) before 
  being banned.
  
  You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many 
  achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a little less 
  due to overhead - since they have to go find another server afterward, 
  etc.).
  
  You're banning these people from YOUR servers.  You do provide a public 
  list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many other admins) 
  would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans.  The vast majority of 
  servers will NOT benefit from this list because most will never be aware of 
  the list, let alone be able to import it easily (most servers are NOT 
  running sourcebans/sourcemod with sql/etc.).
  
  You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a certain 
  way

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

I wait for people to earn achievements before having them banned,
because you're right, joining the map isn't doing anything wrong.
Earning achievements on an achievement farming map on the other hand...

I don't understand your comment about fake clients. My opinion of that
is well known and I anxiously await the patch which will rid the world
of fake clients.

I'm not pushing my beliefs or tactics on anyone, and I'm not trying to
force anyone to setup a honeypot server. If people want to follow my
lead though, I am giving everyone the tools necessary to do so. And yes,
I think every single 2100+ and counting people deserve to be banned.
They cheated the system.

Once again, if you want to continue this, I am on IRC and am happy to
argue there. I'll go ahead and copy this over to AlliedModders since you
want to bring it there too.


On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 15:05 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
 Your honeypot is more about you feeling like you have control than it is 
 about bettering the community or taking a stand.
 
 I am not missing the point of a honeypot.  I am a degree-wielding computer 
 scientist, I know full well what a honeypot is.
 I also know that actual honeypots are looked down upon in the security sector 
 and are pretty much useless (legally) when it comes to actually following 
 through and taking action.  They are a useful approach in terms of improving 
 security (through statistical research), but since you're not Valve you're 
 not really going to improve the core problem, are you?
 
 It's obvious you haven't thought things through.
 You state (I believe it was in your A-M thread) that the only reason people 
 join servers running achievement maps is to farm.
 
 This is an incorrect assumption, but, even taking it to be true:
 
 -Why wait for people to earn an achievement before banning them?  Just ban 
 them on join.
 --The answer is because you want it to be full so you can get more to join 
 and thus ban more.
 
 -So why not just report false clients?  Perhaps Dan from Circle-X can help 
 you out.  He posts here.  Though he still maintains that their servers are 
 vanilla and absolutely don't report fake clients have fast respawns or 
 shuffle you off to other servers.
 --The answer is because you actually want to toy with people and then deny 
 them things.  You enjoy wielding your power, and you will do so arbitrarily 
 and with an inflated sense of self-righteousness.  You are the worst kind of 
 admin.  You are as much of a problem to TF2 as the farmers, griefers, and 
 exploiters.
 
 As to why your assumption is incorrect:
 
 Many people will simply join an achievement box to meet up with friends 
 (right click friend, view game info, join!).
 Many people will simply join a server based on ping and player count, and not 
 the map.
 Many people will not know what an achievement box map is, or that is 
 considered a bad thing.
 
 If your argument is that people should know better, then I'd like to ask you 
 about all the NEW players that will be playing TF2.  If a free weekend is 
 upon us, then there will be a lot of new players.  Should someone be banned 
 from your servers just because they joined your honeypot?  Should they be 
 banned from other servers who have picked up your list?
 
 Apparently you think it is an acceptable price to pay for maintaining what 
 you think is a desirable decorum and behavior among your players.  That's 
 fine.  What's not fine is you trying to push your beliefs on others, or you 
 calling these people cheaters, detrimental, or other such things for having a 
 differing opinion about how to play a game.  If you had your way, those 
 players would be banned from TF2 entirely.  You are actively trying to spread 
 your list of over 2000 bans.  Do you really think that all those people 
 deserve to be banned?  (Yes, you do:  These are known achievement farmers! 
 Ban them NOW!)
 
 What you claim is dubious.  Your intentions are not noble.  Your methods are 
 detrimental to TF2 as a whole.
 I will be looking for and joining your honeypot, then earning some 
 achievement, so I never have to deal with your servers.
 
 
  From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:45:10 -0500
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
  I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
  to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
  complacent about it.
  
  Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the definition:
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)
  
  The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
  achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.
  
  I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.
  
  
  
  On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
   If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then being 
   banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Alec Sanger


really, guys, why are we still discussing this. it's clear that everyone 
disagrees with sleeper. is your bitching and personal attacks going to make him 
take down the server? is he hurting anyone but himself? if the answer to both 
of these questions is no, I propose we drop it.

all in favor?

Thank you,
Alec Sanger
www.stompfest.com


 From: bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com
 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:05:14 -0800
 Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
 
 
 Your honeypot is more about you feeling like you have control than it is 
 about bettering the community or taking a stand.
 
 I am not missing the point of a honeypot.  I am a degree-wielding computer 
 scientist, I know full well what a honeypot is.
 I also know that actual honeypots are looked down upon in the security sector 
 and are pretty much useless (legally) when it comes to actually following 
 through and taking action.  They are a useful approach in terms of improving 
 security (through statistical research), but since you're not Valve you're 
 not really going to improve the core problem, are you?
 
 It's obvious you haven't thought things through.
 You state (I believe it was in your A-M thread) that the only reason people 
 join servers running achievement maps is to farm.
 
 This is an incorrect assumption, but, even taking it to be true:
 
 -Why wait for people to earn an achievement before banning them?  Just ban 
 them on join.
 --The answer is because you want it to be full so you can get more to join 
 and thus ban more.
 
 -So why not just report false clients?  Perhaps Dan from Circle-X can help 
 you out.  He posts here.  Though he still maintains that their servers are 
 vanilla and absolutely don't report fake clients have fast respawns or 
 shuffle you off to other servers.
 --The answer is because you actually want to toy with people and then deny 
 them things.  You enjoy wielding your power, and you will do so arbitrarily 
 and with an inflated sense of self-righteousness.  You are the worst kind of 
 admin.  You are as much of a problem to TF2 as the farmers, griefers, and 
 exploiters.
 
 As to why your assumption is incorrect:
 
 Many people will simply join an achievement box to meet up with friends 
 (right click friend, view game info, join!).
 Many people will simply join a server based on ping and player count, and not 
 the map.
 Many people will not know what an achievement box map is, or that is 
 considered a bad thing.
 
 If your argument is that people should know better, then I'd like to ask you 
 about all the NEW players that will be playing TF2.  If a free weekend is 
 upon us, then there will be a lot of new players.  Should someone be banned 
 from your servers just because they joined your honeypot?  Should they be 
 banned from other servers who have picked up your list?
 
 Apparently you think it is an acceptable price to pay for maintaining what 
 you think is a desirable decorum and behavior among your players.  That's 
 fine.  What's not fine is you trying to push your beliefs on others, or you 
 calling these people cheaters, detrimental, or other such things for having a 
 differing opinion about how to play a game.  If you had your way, those 
 players would be banned from TF2 entirely.  You are actively trying to spread 
 your list of over 2000 bans.  Do you really think that all those people 
 deserve to be banned?  (Yes, you do:  These are known achievement farmers! 
 Ban them NOW!)
 
 What you claim is dubious.  Your intentions are not noble.  Your methods are 
 detrimental to TF2 as a whole.
 I will be looking for and joining your honeypot, then earning some 
 achievement, so I never have to deal with your servers.
 
 
  From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
  To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
  Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:45:10 -0500
  Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot
  
  I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
  to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
  complacent about it.
  
  Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the definition:
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)
  
  The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
  achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.
  
  I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.
  
  
  
  On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
   If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then being 
   banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish ass.
   
   You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm 
   achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / 
   simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress towards 
   others) before being banned.
   
   You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many 
   achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a little

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Michael Krasnow

wow this is so retarded fake clients help servers that have a few people and
make it look like there is more there is nothing wrong with this, its a mod

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 6:17 PM, msleeper mslee...@cyberwurx.com wrote:

I wait for people to earn achievements before having them banned,
because you're right, joining the map isn't doing anything wrong.
Earning achievements on an achievement farming map on the other hand...

I don't understand your comment about fake clients. My opinion of that
is well known and I anxiously await the patch which will rid the world
of fake clients.

I'm not pushing my beliefs or tactics on anyone, and I'm not trying to
force anyone to setup a honeypot server. If people want to follow my
lead though, I am giving everyone the tools necessary to do so. And yes,
I think every single 2100+ and counting people deserve to be banned.
They cheated the system.

Once again, if you want to continue this, I am on IRC and am happy to
argue there. I'll go ahead and copy this over to AlliedModders since you
want to bring it there too.

On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 15:05 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
Your honeypot is more about you feeling like you have control than it is
about bettering the community or taking a stand.

I am not missing the point of a honeypot. I am a degree-wielding
computer scientist, I know full well what a honeypot is.
I also know that actual honeypots are looked down upon in the security
sector and are pretty much useless (legally) when it comes to actually
following through and taking action. They are a useful approach in terms of
improving security (through statistical research), but since you're not
Valve you're not really going to improve the core problem, are you?

It's obvious you haven't thought things through.
You state (I believe it was in your A-M thread) that the only reason
people join servers running achievement maps is to farm.

This is an incorrect assumption, but, even taking it to be true:

-Why wait for people to earn an achievement before banning them? Just
ban them on join.
--The answer is because you want it to be full so you can get more to
join and thus ban more.

-So why not just report false clients? Perhaps Dan from Circle-X can
help you out. He posts here. Though he still maintains that their servers
are vanilla and absolutely don't report fake clients have fast respawns or
shuffle you off to other servers.
--The answer is because you actually want to toy with people and then
deny them things. You enjoy wielding your power, and you will do so
arbitrarily and with an inflated sense of self-righteousness. You are the
worst kind of admin. You are as much of a problem to TF2 as the farmers,
griefers, and exploiters.

As to why your assumption is incorrect:

Many people will simply join an achievement box to meet up with friends
(right click friend, view game info, join!).
Many people will simply join a server based on ping and player count, and
not the map.
Many people will not know what an achievement box map is, or that is
considered a bad thing.

If your argument is that people should know better, then I'd like to ask
you about all the NEW players that will be playing TF2. If a free weekend
is upon us, then there will be a lot of new players. Should someone be
banned from your servers just because they joined your honeypot? Should
they be banned from other servers who have picked up your list?

Apparently you think it is an acceptable price to pay for maintaining
what you think is a desirable decorum and behavior among your players.
That's fine. What's not fine is you trying to push your beliefs on others,
or you calling these people cheaters, detrimental, or other such things for
having a differing opinion about how to play a game. If you had your way,
those players would be banned from TF2 entirely. You are actively trying to
spread your list of over 2000 bans. Do you really think that all those
people deserve to be banned? (Yes, you do: These are known achievement
farmers! Ban them NOW!)

What you claim is dubious. Your intentions are not noble. Your methods
are detrimental to TF2 as a whole.
I will be looking for and joining your honeypot, then earning some
achievement, so I never have to deal with your servers.

From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:45:10 -0500
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
complacent about it.

Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the
definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29

The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
achievement server, to make

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Michael Krasnow

Im in favor!!!

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Alec Sanger eclyp...@hotmail.com wrote:

really, guys, why are we still discussing this. it's clear that everyone
disagrees with sleeper. is your bitching and personal attacks going to make
him take down the server? is he hurting anyone but himself? if the answer to
both of these questions is no, I propose we drop it.

all in favor?

Thank you,
Alec Sanger
www.stompfest.com

From: bw_bloodlet...@hotmail.com
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:05:14 -0800
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

Your honeypot is more about you feeling like you have control than it is
about bettering the community or taking a stand.

It's obvious you haven't thought things through.
You state (I believe it was in your A-M thread) that the only reason
people join servers running achievement maps is to farm.

This is an incorrect assumption, but, even taking it to be true:

-Why wait for people to earn an achievement before banning them? Just
ban them on join.
--The answer is because you want it to be full so you can get more to
join and thus ban more.

As to why your assumption is incorrect:

From: mslee...@cyberwurx.com
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:45:10 -0500
Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb
to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being
complacent about it.

Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the
definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29

The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other
achievement server, to make farmers feel safe by joining it.

I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks.

On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote:
If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then
being banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish ass.

You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm
achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / simultaneous
achievements) achievement (and probably progress towards others) before
being banned.

You

Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

2009-02-25 Thread Karl Weckstrom

You already wrote me off as some kind of cheater based on circumstance... 
circumstance that this very list allowed. Now you're trying to peddle your 
wares using the very same list - knowing full well your data is already 
suspect...

Such a tangled web you weave...




-Original Message-

   The plugin is here:
  http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402
   My publicly available list of farmers is here:
   http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html

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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot

Karl the best way to make him understand is go to the alied forums and his
plugin page http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402

sign up and NUKE his Karma
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Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot