[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Mike Langford m...@tweetworks.com wrote: Twitter will also have to inform other existing clients, like Twiterific and TwitterBerry, to cease and desist as well if it hopes for a success application. I'm not sure the situation is that set in stone. If Twitter wants an alternative to massive numbers of CDs then it can contact developers currently using the Twitter name and offer reasonable terms to license it for their applications. It may or may not be as simple as return this form signed and use this wording on your product and there may be business reasons not to take that approach, but my pure and utterly uninformed guess would be that the lawyers are working on that form and that the API team has advocates with the advocates urging them to find a way to make it happen that doesn't require asking for a licensing fee. Chris Babcock
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:17:38 -0600 Bioscience News bioscienceupda...@gmail.com wrote: All this stuff about following being equated to spamming is nonsense. First, the act of following someone usually generates a message. When you first join Twitter, it's exciting to get new followers and you look forward to those messages. Then you start checking out the profiles to see if you want to follow back... and you find that you don't because it's a just a BambiBot or some other SpamBot. Soon you stop checking out your followers all together because the noise is too high in that channel. The content of the users' profile and existing Tweets are the payload of the Spam message communicated by following a user. Second, and more importantly, the social graph is part of the signal on Twitter. Part of the value of following a person may be the quality of their other followers. Without the Spam and the Ham in the following, you could browse the followers of those whose insight you appreciate and identify others who share that appreciation. You might even browse those they follow to try to find other users to follow like the one you had in common to begin with. Unless the content of the social graph is hand grown, or at least reasonably filtered, you lose the channel. So, yes, it is possible to have following Spam and it is a real problem for Twitter users. Chris Babcock
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam. You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it is NOT spam. If you have an email account sent notices to your IMs when you have email, those notices are not Spam, but the content of the message may be. Twitter's just the protocol. The you have a follower message is not Spam, but the act of following itself may be if the intent is to use Twitter's delivery methods to deliver unwelcome content. If a user opts-out of receiving follower notices because of the content of the followers' profiles then Spam has damaged the network infrastructure on which Twitter is based. Chris Babcock
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
In the final analysis, I think we should express sympathy for the API team. They're great guys, and they are busting their butts to help us succeed. This action appears to be an example of where another part of the Twitter organization did something that makes their lives hell. Chin up, guys. I know you cannot reply to this thread. But, hopefully, as the Twitter organization grows and matures, coordination will also improve. Dewald
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
+1 and well explained Chris, thanks. On 13 Aug 2009, at 08:38, Chris Babcock wrote: On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam. You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it is NOT spam. If you have an email account sent notices to your IMs when you have email, those notices are not Spam, but the content of the message may be. Twitter's just the protocol. The you have a follower message is not Spam, but the act of following itself may be if the intent is to use Twitter's delivery methods to deliver unwelcome content. If a user opts-out of receiving follower notices because of the content of the followers' profiles then Spam has damaged the network infrastructure on which Twitter is based. Chris Babcock
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Spam is anything in your inbox caused by a third party and not desired by you. Period. Get over the semantics already. If it were possible to opt-out of all bambibot, SEObot and other spambot accounts on Twitter, then sure, getting bot follow notifications in your inbox would NOT be spam. Unfortunately the choice is not offered, but the lack of a distinctive choice in this matter does not change intent or outcome. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera) On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Neil Ellisneilellis1...@googlemail.com wrote: +1 and well explained Chris, thanks. On 13 Aug 2009, at 08:38, Chris Babcock wrote: On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam. You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it is NOT spam. If you have an email account sent notices to your IMs when you have email, those notices are not Spam, but the content of the message may be. Twitter's just the protocol. The you have a follower message is not Spam, but the act of following itself may be if the intent is to use Twitter's delivery methods to deliver unwelcome content. If a user opts-out of receiving follower notices because of the content of the followers' profiles then Spam has damaged the network infrastructure on which Twitter is based. Chris Babcock
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
In short, Twitter has filed a trademark application and in doing so they must attempt to defend the name if they hope to be awarded trademark protection. Twitter allowed its original application to lapse and refiled on April 29, 2009. http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=docstate=4003:eq5aoa.2.5 If Twitter continues to allow developers to use its name without attempting to defend its use it will certainly be denied a trademark. Twitter will also have to inform other existing clients, like Twiterific and TwitterBerry, to cease and desist as well if it hopes for a success application. As an business owner I completely understand Twitter's position here. I'm hopeful however, that they will be equally as diligent in working with the development community to help apps succeed while staying in bounds of Twitter's needs and user expectations. Twitter is at a turning point where it is almost certain to crush a few developers in the process of rolling out its business model. It's a delicate balance, monetize while keeping the development community happy, attracting more average users, and keeping the power users purists happy. Should be fun to watch. Mike Langford CEO, Tweetworks LLC Tweet Me: @MikeLangford Email Me: m...@tweetworks.com On Aug 11, 10:48 pm, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote: Any other developer being sued by Twitter today? If so give me a call - feel free to tweet outwww.MyTwitterButler.com/I'm_Being_Sued http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/I'm_Being_Sued to anyone you want - looking forward to the press having a field day with this. Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com mailto:d...@mytwitterbutler.com?subject=i'm%20being%20Sued +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial). From: Dean Collins Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:37 PM To: 'newtec...@meetup.com' Subject: Twitter is Suing me!!! So not only are Twitter fighting battles with Russian hackers they are now fighting their own third party API developer community !! I received this email 30 minutes ago stating that Twitter is suing me?? Basically they feel that my application -www.MyTwitterButler.com http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/ does the following. 1/ That anyone using the API to auto follow people are breaching the TOS?? 2/ That no one can use the word Twitter in their domain 3/ That somehow people might be confused my application is related to twitter even though every page is labeled Copyright 2009 (c) My Twitter Butler - Not related in anyway to Twitter Inc, if I owned Twitter would i be spending my time building this app?? Is this the end for Twitter 3rd party developers? Have they forgotten that it was people like me who saw a need and built an application using the publicly defined Twitter API to add value to the Twitter ecosystem? I have asked Twitters lawyers for a conference call tomorrow to clear up 'WHY' they feel anyone using the twitter API to auto follow people is an illegal act and will be looking forward to their answers about 'WHY' the twitter API was built in the first place if they want to sue people for using it. www.MyTwitterButler.com/I'm_Being_Sued http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/I'm_Being_Sued Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial). FENWICK WEST LLP SILICON VALLEY CENTER 801 CALI FORN IA STREET MOUNTAIN VIEW, CA 94041 TEL 650.988.8500 FAX 650.938.5200 WWW.FENWICK.COM August 11, 2009 KAREN WEBB VIA CERTIFIED MAIL AND EMAIL Dean Collins Attn: MyTwitterButler.com d...@cognation.net Re: Infringement of Twitter, Inc.'s Trademark Rights Dear Mr. Collins: EMAIL kw...@fenwick.com DIRECT DIAL (650) 335*7656 This firm represents Twitter, Inc. (Twitter), owner of the TWITTER trademark and the popular social networking and micro-blogging website atwww.twitter.com. We are contacting you regarding your violation of Twitter's Terms of Service (TOS) and spam rules, and your infringement of Twitter's trademark rights. Twitter has recently become aware that you have registered and are using the MyTwitterButler.com domain, where you advertise and offer for sale the My Twitter Butler software that facilitates aggressive and automatic following to Twitter users. On your website you also claim to have used the same aggressive following techniques. This activity violates Twitter's TOS and rules. In addition to the above violations, you are also infringing on Twitter's trademark rights by using the MyTwitterButler.com domain and the TWITTER trademark. As you are likely aware, Twitter's extensive and widespread use of its TWITTER trademark provides Twitter with strong and defensible rights in the mark, and has caused the mark to become well-known, if not famous, in today's online marketplace. Twitter owns
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
IANAL, but I don't think all is doom and gloom, or at least not as doomy and goomy as previous posts to this thread (Including one of mine, if it is not read as tongue-in-cheek, as intended) portray. Yes, if you have a trademark, you have to aggressively defend it or risk losing it. No, completely barring others from using it is not the only way to aggressively defend it. You can license it, subject to some terms and conditions, and aggressively police the licensing program. I know this because in a previous life I made modems. These modems included many significant innovations, which were protected by patents. Now, modems are like dancing: it takes two to twango (GDI! I've got o stop doing that! :-) ). And even though the company for which I worked had at one time an ~85% market share of dial-up modems, there was still that pesky ~15% from competitors that wanted to interoperate with ours. To do that, they had to include our innovations, and the companies that built them, our competitors, had to license the innovations. Each innovation had a catchy, trade-marked brand name, and along with licensing the innovations the other companies would license the brand name for use in their labeling, promotion, and advertising. In fact, the licensing terms and conditions *REQUIRED* them to do so, or risk having the license terminated. All fine and dandy, so far. But it addition to the other modem manufacturers, ISPs that purchased these modems, either from us or others, wanted to advertise that they provided service that included these innovations. Unlike licensing the technology, purchasing a product containing the technology did *NOT* grant you license to use the technology's trademarked brand name in your labeling, promotions, and advertising: they had to separately license the trademarked brand name. Now licensing is never free, it always involves compensation. (Why? Don't ask me, IANAL) But the compensation is not necessarily monetary, it may be a requirement to actually use the brand name to promote your service, thereby promoting the technology. I.e., if you actually run advertising (For your service) that includes the brand name upon which your service is built, then you have promoted the brand name and thereby compensated us for licensing the brand name to you; if you don't advertise, then you haven't compensated us, and we pull the license. All of this, of course, subject to terms and conditions contained in the license agreement. I know this is how it worked because periodically my engineering team would gets updates from the legal department on new licensees (I.e., people we could and should talk to) and terminated licensees (I.e., people we couldn't and shouldn't talk to). I know for a fact that in some cases licenses to use the trademarked brand names were terminated because their service and/or advertising violated the terms and conditions of the license (Most such cases involved providing or promoting illegal activities; for example, child pornography). How is all of this relevant to the case at hand? Twitter could (And I sincerely hope they do.) license the use of their trademarks to us, developers of products that interoperate with their services, subject to terms and conditions, with the only compensation being that ya have to actually use the trademarks to promote your product and thereby their service. If ya actually use the trademarks (And abide by the terms and conditions) your license stays in effect; ya don't use the trademarks (Or you violate the terms and condition) your license is terminated. Again, IANAL, but I don't see any reason that the licensing of the trademarks could not include their use in product and domain names. And maybe the licensing process is as simple as signing up for an OAuth consumer key, agreeing to the trademark licensing terms and conditions as part of the OAuth sign-up. Naw! That wouldn't work, it's too easy! :-) Comments expected and welcome, Jim Renkel On Aug 13, 2:19 pm, JDG ghil...@gmail.com wrote: did you really expect them to allow something that clearly violated their TOS to use the Twitter name? There are plenty of apps out there that add Real Value(TM) to Twitter's community. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 13:05, Dale Merritt mogul...@gmail.com wrote: You're right, they could decide to grant you the right to use it. Good luck with that. Keep building up that brand then and cross your fingers. Sounds like a sound assumption. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Nick Arnett nick.arn...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Dale Merritt mogul...@gmail.comwrote: Don't waste your time. If you have Twitter in your domain name, you could be put out of business if you don't cease and desist. I've seen it first hand. They bury you in a law suit, wrong or right is not the point. These companies have a huge lawyer group and bat you around for fun. This doesn't take into account the fact that Twitter is certainly
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I got a letter from a UK law firm too regarding www.twitlonger.com (which clearly doesn't use the word Twitter). They weren't too draconian in their claims. They want a disclaimer put on the site (fair enough) and for me to stop using the little blue birds (again, fair enough. This is what happens when a stupid weekend project turns into half million uniques a month). What isn't quite as fair is that I have to stop using a font identical or similar to that used in the Twitter logo. I'm using Arial Rounded which is significantly different to the custom font Twitter uses and as common a typeface as you can get, though the colours are similar. This one's the kicker though, they want me to permanently stop use on the website of a blue background. WTF? Twitter now owns blue? I'm about a day away from dropping a redesign anyway, but being told what colours I can use is a bit much. This was all on the same day that they approved my whitelisting :) On Aug 12, 5:27 am, Jeremy Darling jeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote: I really really want to see them backup the tweet trademark. All birds are now being sued by twitter, they can no longer say; tweet tweet LOL. Seems lil twitter grew up and found lawyers. While I don't agree or like the product that Dean sells, I dis-agree more with the misuse of legal representation by a corporation even more. I remember when MS started this everyone threw stones (and courts threw it out), now twitter starts it and its OK!? I warn developers to watch their backs, your little cheezy app that uses twitter may bite you in the arse. Of course, I don't see twitter going after the advertising/marketing companies utilizing the API and hitting the service just as many times to mine for data or to use what they mine to target sales. That seems to be a complete and total ethical use of the service, course a few $$ thrown the right direction always does sway a corporations view of grey. - Jeremy On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:13 PM, jim.renkel james.ren...@gmail.com wrote: I guess I should have pointed out that my tongue was firmly planted in my check when I wrote my previous post. My bad! :-( Dean: I don't mean to make light of your particular situation. Sometimes I just can't not point out absurdities, which the logic I presented clearly is. What I was trying to do, perhaps not too well, is point out that the API TOS may need to be revised to say that developers may use twitter's trademarks, but only in approved ways. BTW, twitter is trademarking tweet as well as twitter. You have been warned! :-) Jim
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Except Twitter is encouraging the use of the word Tweet in applications, but not their brand name, Twitter. Perfectly acceptable in my personal opinion. On Aug 12, 5:13 am, jim.renkel james.ren...@gmail.com wrote: BTW, twitter is trademarking tweet as well as twitter. You have been warned! :-)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Jeremy Darlingjeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote: Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that trademark against a URL, can't be done. If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com) as well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names LOL. Several other companies have tried this as well and failed. As for Twitter TOS and developer rights. Nope, can't sue for voilation of a TOS on a public API either. You can suspend suspect activities and revoke developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS violation of this type. Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject. On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point in most cases. Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the company that was un-true. In that case, they could get you for everything your worth LOL. Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the same laws as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically have to suck it up in the end. - Jeremy Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case. Twitter can most definitely enforce their trademark here. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote: Except Twitter is encouraging the use of the word Tweet in applications, but not their brand name, Twitter. Perfectly acceptable in my personal opinion. On Aug 12, 5:13 am, jim.renkel james.ren...@gmail.com wrote: BTW, twitter is trademarking tweet as well as twitter. You have been warned! :-) I thought there was a CD incident last month that revolved around tweet? ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I'm not aware of this but this link http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html, published only last month says We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use of the word Tweet. On Aug 12, 10:47 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote: Except Twitter is encouraging the use of the word Tweet in applications, but not their brand name, Twitter. Perfectly acceptable in my personal opinion. On Aug 12, 5:13 am, jim.renkel james.ren...@gmail.com wrote: BTW, twitter is trademarking tweet as well as twitter. You have been warned! :-) I thought there was a CD incident last month that revolved around tweet? ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not aware of this but this link http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html, published only last month says We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use of the word Tweet. Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know. --ab
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic, Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon, iTwitter etc? I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :( On Aug 12, 10:54 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not aware of this but this linkhttp://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html, published only last month says We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use of the word Tweet. Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know. --ab
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
What is Twitters real stance on auto following? In there API they prohibit mass following so what does that mean exactly. More than 1, 100? In my app, I had planned on integrating some meaniful auto following Dale On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:55 AM, Goblin stu...@abovetheinternet.org wrote: The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic, Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon, iTwitter etc? I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :( On Aug 12, 10:54 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not aware of this but this linkhttp:// blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html, published only last month says We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use of the word Tweet. Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know. --ab -- Dale Merritt Fol.la MeDia, LLC
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
FYI - mashable.com just posted a story on this here http://mashable.com/2009/08/12/twitter-not-suing-developer/ Interesting to know that if Twitter gets the trademark for Tweet also what about the apps and businesses that have been using it before the claim like TweetDeck etc etc? Seems they would have a justifiable claim to the name also? How does that work? Not sure about the US but where I am if someone has made a stable reputation from a name they are also entitled to a trademark clause for it regardless if they officially trademarked it. (in my own words) The owner of a common law trademark may also file suit, but an unregistered mark may be protectable only within the geographical area within which it has been used or in geographical areas into which it may be reasonably expected to expand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV either so seek your own legal council regarding it. On Aug 12, 5:55 am, Goblin stu...@abovetheinternet.org wrote: The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic, Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon, iTwitter etc? I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :( On Aug 12, 10:54 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not aware of this but this linkhttp://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html, published only last month says We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use of the word Tweet. Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know. --ab
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
The trademark app for Tweet could be disputed. There is a window of time in the trademark office proceedings that you can do this. I think its 60 days after the mark has been approved for publication, prior to the official registration is approved. Any app w/ Tweet in their name might band together to see if more can be accomplished and spend less money on attoneys. I'm sure Twitter is probably wrestling with this issue too, seeing that they have basically came out and said they wouldn't go after anyone using it in a correct way. To dispute the mark provides leverage. I went through this with one of my trademarks, and was able to come to a settlement. Dale On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:24 AM, Vision Jinx vjn...@gmail.com wrote: FYI - mashable.com just posted a story on this here http://mashable.com/2009/08/12/twitter-not-suing-developer/ Interesting to know that if Twitter gets the trademark for Tweet also what about the apps and businesses that have been using it before the claim like TweetDeck etc etc? Seems they would have a justifiable claim to the name also? How does that work? Not sure about the US but where I am if someone has made a stable reputation from a name they are also entitled to a trademark clause for it regardless if they officially trademarked it. (in my own words) The owner of a common law trademark may also file suit, but an unregistered mark may be protectable only within the geographical area within which it has been used or in geographical areas into which it may be reasonably expected to expand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV either so seek your own legal council regarding it. On Aug 12, 5:55 am, Goblin stu...@abovetheinternet.org wrote: The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic, Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon, iTwitter etc? I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :( On Aug 12, 10:54 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not aware of this but this linkhttp:// blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html, published only last month says We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use of the word Tweet. Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know. --ab -- Dale Merritt Fol.la MeDia, LLC
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Logically, isn't it necessary that a clear and unambiguous definition of aggressive following to be publicly available before any legal action can be based on it? Just asking. Dewald
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
As has been stated ad nauseum, Twitter would have a very hard time initiating legal proceedings simply because you violated the TOS. They could suspend your account, sure, but they're a private company. They could suspend your account because they didn't like the color of your shirt. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 07:04, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Logically, isn't it necessary that a clear and unambiguous definition of aggressive following to be publicly available before any legal action can be based on it? Just asking. Dewald -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote: Logically, isn't it necessary that a clear and unambiguous definition of aggressive following to be publicly available before any legal action can be based on it? Just asking. Dewald The decision in any legal action would set the precedent most likely. It's essentially an interpretation of contract case. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
You're not being sued. That's a cease-and-desist letter. You're violating Twitter's trademark by selling a product with Twitter in the name. The legal precedents for this are ironclad. You can't do it. You're violating Twitters terms of service by offering a program that auto-follows thousands of people at a time. Did you really think you were going to get away with that? It doesn't matter if you think it's fair. It doesn't matter who else is doing it. It doesn't even matter if you think you're right: you're not. Stop infringing Twitter's trademark and stop violating their terms of service and they'll leave you alone. It's really not rocket science.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Aug 12, 12:27 am, Jeremy Darling jeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote: Seems lil twitter grew up and found lawyers. While I don't agree or like the product that Dean sells, I dis-agree more with the misuse of legal representation by a corporation even more. I remember when MS started this everyone threw stones (and courts threw it out), now twitter starts it and its OK!? I'm not expressing an opinion on this one way or the other, but what a lot of people don't realize about US trademark law is this: Twitter doesn't have a choice in this matter. They are *required* to actively defend their trademark, or they will lose it. This is how the law works, and it's why you often see companies taking seemingly unnecessary action against seemingly minor violations (not that I'm quantifying this as minor). They have to, that's all there is to it.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Andy, One would hope that a judge would not even hear a case that said, Defendent violated terms that he had no way of knowing exactly when and how he violated those terms. Suspending accounts based on what is a nebulous concept to the public is one thing. Even though it may not be good PR, it is well within someone's rights to do so. But, to take legal action based on it is probably, or shall I say hopefully, a bit of a stretch of the imagination. There is a good reason why law books and contracts are so thick and contain so many definitions, namely, so you can know exactly when you have broken the law or broken the terms of the contract. Dewald On Aug 12, 10:07 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote: The decision in any legal action would set the precedent most likely. It's essentially an interpretation of contract case. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote: Andy, One would hope that a judge would not even hear a case that said, Defendent violated terms that he had no way of knowing exactly when and how he violated those terms. Suspending accounts based on what is a nebulous concept to the public is one thing. Even though it may not be good PR, it is well within someone's rights to do so. But, to take legal action based on it is probably, or shall I say hopefully, a bit of a stretch of the imagination. There is a good reason why law books and contracts are so thick and contain so many definitions, namely, so you can know exactly when you have broken the law or broken the terms of the contract. Dewald And if a judge refused to hear the case, that's also setting some precedent, and forces Twitter to provide clearer terms if they expect to pursue similar matters in the future. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
The OP should have first gotten a lawyer to look over it, instead of freaking out hysterically here. He's not being sued. Twitter does own the name Twitter and can selectively choose to sue/CD (or not sue) anyone they like who infringes on it. You defense being other people have registered the domain names too! isn't any better one than you'll get with saying, But other people use Bittorrent too! Someone up in the thread said, No one can now use the Twitter API because it says you can't use Twitter's name in your application, but they want you to put Powered by Twitter on the site. That's just FUD. Come on guys, put on your big boy pants and lets show a bit of business acumen and maturity here. Twitter isn't draconian, shutting down the developer community, etc. That's just silly.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Just thinking, I cannot recall ever having seen in the Twitter TOS where it says that it is a violation of their TOS to assist or enable others to violate their TOS. It is probably just an oversight, and it's something that should be in a Developer TOS. But, even if they did that, they would be painting themselves into a corner if they did not very clearly and very exactly define each clause of the TOS. Not doing that is simply sending them into a very dark alley of extremely bad publicity. Dewald On Aug 12, 10:31 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote: And if a judge refused to hear the case, that's also setting some precedent, and forces Twitter to provide clearer terms if they expect to pursue similar matters in the future. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote: Just thinking, I cannot recall ever having seen in the Twitter TOS where it says that it is a violation of their TOS to assist or enable others to violate their TOS. It is probably just an oversight, and it's something that should be in a Developer TOS. But, even if they did that, they would be painting themselves into a corner if they did not very clearly and very exactly define each clause of the TOS. Not doing that is simply sending them into a very dark alley of extremely bad publicity. Dewald Might qualify as a safe harbor issue ... ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
As I've already said above, quoted from Twitter, they are doing it to protect their brand but are not interested in stopping people using Tweet, in fact they are actively encouraging it! On Aug 12, 1:53 pm, Dale Merritt mogul...@gmail.com wrote: The trademark app for Tweet could be disputed. There is a window of time in the trademark office proceedings that you can do this. I think its 60 days after the mark has been approved for publication, prior to the official registration is approved. Any app w/ Tweet in their name might band together to see if more can be accomplished and spend less money on attoneys. I'm sure Twitter is probably wrestling with this issue too, seeing that they have basically came out and said they wouldn't go after anyone using it in a correct way. To dispute the mark provides leverage. I went through this with one of my trademarks, and was able to come to a settlement. Dale On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:24 AM, Vision Jinx vjn...@gmail.com wrote: FYI - mashable.com just posted a story on this here http://mashable.com/2009/08/12/twitter-not-suing-developer/ Interesting to know that if Twitter gets the trademark for Tweet also what about the apps and businesses that have been using it before the claim like TweetDeck etc etc? Seems they would have a justifiable claim to the name also? How does that work? Not sure about the US but where I am if someone has made a stable reputation from a name they are also entitled to a trademark clause for it regardless if they officially trademarked it. (in my own words) The owner of a common law trademark may also file suit, but an unregistered mark may be protectable only within the geographical area within which it has been used or in geographical areas into which it may be reasonably expected to expand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV either so seek your own legal council regarding it. On Aug 12, 5:55 am, Goblin stu...@abovetheinternet.org wrote: The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic, Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon, iTwitter etc? I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :( On Aug 12, 10:54 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Richrhyl...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not aware of this but this linkhttp:// blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html, published only last month says We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use of the word Tweet. Thanks, I'd missed that. I only saw the original, unupdated article that brought up the issue on TechCrunch. Great to know. --ab -- Dale Merritt Fol.la MeDia, LLC
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Bill Kocikbko...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 12, 9:07 am, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't matter who else is doing it. Well, actually, it does matter. That's the thing about trademarks - you are obligated to defend them across the board, or you lose them. You can't selectively defend them by allowing people (or applications, or business entities) you like to use them and not people you don't. If you do, the people you selectively pursue will stand up in court and ask What actions have you taken against X, Y, and Z, who also use your trademark? which is a perfectly relevant legal question to which the plaintiff's answer had better not be None - we're only going after you. This is how trademark suits are defended against and how they are lost. But _ethically_, morally, it doesn't matter. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Actually, I recall it perfectly well. MS threatened action against Mike Roe (a Canadian student as I recall) for his development company. The case was settled OUT OF COURT, with MS basically having to purchase his domain. The same could be applied to this product where Twitter can not demand the URL but they can wait for it to expire and snag it or offer to buy out the owner. On the point about aggressively pursuing because they have to. That's a complete and total cop-out, if that were the case then Twitter would be going after ALL offenders and not the select bad guys, if someone gives twitter a warm fuzzy they view it as ok. According to your statement (and I reviewed the laws a while back on trademarks but will go look again) they can loose their trademark for this action alone. - Jeremy PS: I'm still not a lawyer, I still hate the product, but I still hate the thought more. Of course, their CD order is little more than a notice to disconnect :) On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Jeremy Darlingjeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote: Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that trademark against a URL, can't be done. If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com) as well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names LOL. Several other companies have tried this as well and failed. As for Twitter TOS and developer rights. Nope, can't sue for voilation of a TOS on a public API either. You can suspend suspect activities and revoke developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS violation of this type. Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject. On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point in most cases. Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the company that was un-true. In that case, they could get you for everything your worth LOL. Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the same laws as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically have to suck it up in the end. - Jeremy Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case. Twitter can most definitely enforce their trademark here. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)http://www.google.com/search?q=%28andrew+badera%29+OR+%28andy+badera%29
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get an email last night? twittercounter.com twitterfall.com twitter-friends.com www.twitter.ca www.tinytwitter.com www.twitterbuttons.com www.accessibletwitter.com twitterfeed.com twitterpatterns.com www.twitterlocal.net www.twitterbackgrounds.com twittergallery.com twitteranalyzer.com whentwitterisdown.com destroytwitter.com blog.twittervotereport.com twitter.pbworks.com twitter.polldaddy.com twitter.alltop.com twitter.infinityward.com twitter.grader.com Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com mailto:d...@mytwitterbutler.com?subject=i'm%20being%20Sued +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial). From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Darling Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:12 AM To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!! Actually, I recall it perfectly well. MS threatened action against Mike Roe (a Canadian student as I recall) for his development company. The case was settled OUT OF COURT, with MS basically having to purchase his domain. The same could be applied to this product where Twitter can not demand the URL but they can wait for it to expire and snag it or offer to buy out the owner. On the point about aggressively pursuing because they have to. That's a complete and total cop-out, if that were the case then Twitter would be going after ALL offenders and not the select bad guys, if someone gives twitter a warm fuzzy they view it as ok. According to your statement (and I reviewed the laws a while back on trademarks but will go look again) they can loose their trademark for this action alone. - Jeremy PS: I'm still not a lawyer, I still hate the product, but I still hate the thought more. Of course, their CD order is little more than a notice to disconnect :) On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Jeremy Darlingjeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote: Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that trademark against a URL, can't be done. If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com) as well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names LOL. Several other companies have tried this as well and failed. As for Twitter TOS and developer rights. Nope, can't sue for voilation of a TOS on a public API either. You can suspend suspect activities and revoke developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS violation of this type. Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject. On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point in most cases. Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the company that was un-true. In that case, they could get you for everything your worth LOL. Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the same laws as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically have to suck it up in the end. - Jeremy Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case. Twitter can most definitely enforce their trademark here. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera) http://www.google.com/search?q=%28andrew+badera%29+OR+%28andy+badera%29
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Now, with that kind of clause in a Developer TOS, would it mean applications will need to actively prevent users from violating Twitter TOS? For example, would Tweetie and TweetDeck then be in violation if they did not prevent users from: a) Publishing the same tweet text more than once in short succession, b) Publishing tweets that all contain links, c) Publishing the same tweet text on more than one account, etc. In the final analysis, and not to alienate the developer community, the onus should rest on the Twitter account holder to understand and comply with Twitter TOS, regardless of what tool is put at his disposal. This does not mean Twitter cannot and should not put certain clear definitions of what an application can and cannot do in a Developer TOS. The aforementioned enabling others to violate Twitter TOS is probably just not one of them, now that I have thought about it a bit more. That's just my 2 cents. Dewald On Aug 12, 10:44 am, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Dewald Pretoriusdpr...@gmail.com wrote: Might qualify as a safe harbor issue ... ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me:http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+badera)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Seriously Dean I'm afraid that your application (like a mass mailer) is the kind of the thing that spammers use to fill up our followers list with a bunch of real estate agents and 'social media experts'. Mass following actually harms the community on Twitter which is the reason that you will be finding less sympathy than you expected. Obviously you're bright enough to write applications, rather than dig yourself a hole on this list, why not take a step back and consider what else you could do with those skills. I'm sure you could write an application that contributed to the community more now that you have the experience of writing Twitter applications. I understand that you must be feeling upset, who wouldn't when they get legalese schtick through the email. It's not nice. But they have a point and you have the opportunity to graciously accept the situation and move on to your next idea. The most valuable thing is your skill and entrepreneurial spirit, not a micro app. I wish you good luck in your endeavors. peace Neil On 12 Aug 2009, at 15:14, Dean Collins wrote: So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get an email last night? twittercounter.com twitterfall.com twitter-friends.com www.twitter.ca www.tinytwitter.com www.twitterbuttons.com www.accessibletwitter.com twitterfeed.com twitterpatterns.com www.twitterlocal.net www.twitterbackgrounds.com twittergallery.com twitteranalyzer.com whentwitterisdown.com destroytwitter.com blog.twittervotereport.com twitter.pbworks.com twitter.polldaddy.com twitter.alltop.com twitter.infinityward.com twitter.grader.com Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial). From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jeremy Darling Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:12 AM To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!! Actually, I recall it perfectly well. MS threatened action against Mike Roe (a Canadian student as I recall) for his development company. The case was settled OUT OF COURT, with MS basically having to purchase his domain. The same could be applied to this product where Twitter can not demand the URL but they can wait for it to expire and snag it or offer to buy out the owner. On the point about aggressively pursuing because they have to. That's a complete and total cop-out, if that were the case then Twitter would be going after ALL offenders and not the select bad guys, if someone gives twitter a warm fuzzy they view it as ok. According to your statement (and I reviewed the laws a while back on trademarks but will go look again) they can loose their trademark for this action alone. - Jeremy PS: I'm still not a lawyer, I still hate the product, but I still hate the thought more. Of course, their CD order is little more than a notice to disconnect :) On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Jeremy Darlingjeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote: Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that trademark against a URL, can't be done. If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com) as well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names LOL. Several other companies have tried this as well and failed. As for Twitter TOS and developer rights. Nope, can't sue for voilation of a TOS on a public API either. You can suspend suspect activities and revoke developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS violation of this type. Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject. On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point in most cases. Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the company that was un-true. In that case, they could get you for everything your worth LOL. Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the same laws as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically have to suck it up in the end. - Jeremy Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case. Twitter can most definitely enforce their trademark here. ∞ Andy Badera ∞ This email is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ∞ Google me: http://www.google.com/search?q=(andrew+badera)+OR+(andy+ badera)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Are any of these developers -selling- their products? You are. Are any of these developers violating the Terms of Service? You are. Just because another website has Twitter in the name doesn't make their situation the same as yours. You made a tool for spammers. You get caught. Get over it. On Aug 12, 10:14 am, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote: So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get an email last night?
Auto-following (WAS: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!)
On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:17:27 -0700 Dale Merritt mogul...@gmail.com wrote: What is Twitters real stance on auto following? In there API they prohibit mass following so what does that mean exactly. More than 1, 100? In my app, I had planned on integrating some meaniful auto following I'm sure that someone could clarify stance if you could clarify meaningful. :-) I think what's missing from the API here isn't hard limits, but a shared vocabulary for describing social design. We have this in the API TOS: 4. Do not create a bot to promote mass following. Twitter enables users to find and connect with people. Mass following does not help users find interesting connections. Applications found to be promoting valueless mass-following or following-ponzi schemes will be promptly blacklisted. So please, spend your time developing something that helps users find people with interesting connections. It's clear to me that the intent of the rule is an appeal to social design. What is mass following? is the wrong question. The right questions would be What are interesting connections? and How do I help people find them? I'm writing a game application that might auto return follows because it relies on DMs for a communication channel. I don't have any doubts about where this app stands with this rule. Finding other people who play the game definitely helps users find interesting connections. Another app might autofollow those who post on certain topics and retweet posts that are on-topic for the Bot, effectively amplifying certain channels and making it easier to find posts and posters. I think that this is likely an edge case. A bot that doesn't provide any additional filtering or processing over a saved search doesn't really serve any purpose other than promoting a mass following, while an application that adds value to the data stream could develop an immense following because it helps users find people with interesting connections. Chris Babcock
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
and I'm certain the reason for adding the Twitter name violation in there in addition to all the others is that they don't want their name associated with, what is effectively a Web 2.0 spamming operation. On Aug 12, 3:55 pm, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote: Are any of these developers -selling- their products? You are. Are any of these developers violating the Terms of Service? You are. Just because another website has Twitter in the name doesn't make their situation the same as yours. You made a tool for spammers. You get caught. Get over it. On Aug 12, 10:14 am, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote: So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get an email last night?
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Hi Neil So i guess what Fenwick and Webb are saying is if i manually log into twitter and click to follow each of the people who just wrote about my application thats ok http://search.twitter.com/search?q=mytwitterbutler http://search.twitter.com/search?q=mytwitterbutler BUT if i use a little .Net application to do it Then I'm breaking the ‘Law’ and must - Cease and Desist Cheers, Dean From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil Ellis Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:52 AM To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!! Seriously Dean I'm afraid that your application (like a mass mailer) is the kind of the thing that spammers use to fill up our followers list with a bunch of real estate agents and 'social media experts'. Mass following actually harms the community on Twitter which is the reason that you will be finding less sympathy than you expected. Obviously you're bright enough to write applications, rather than dig yourself a hole on this list, why not take a step back and consider what else you could do with those skills. I'm sure you could write an application that contributed to the community more now that you have the experience of writing Twitter applications. I understand that you must be feeling upset, who wouldn't when they get legalese schtick through the email. It's not nice. But they have a point and you have the opportunity to graciously accept the situation and move on to your next idea. The most valuable thing is your skill and entrepreneurial spirit, not a micro app. I wish you good luck in your endeavors. peace Neil On 12 Aug 2009, at 15:14, Dean Collins wrote: So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get an email last night? twittercounter.com twitterfall.com twitter-friends.com www.twitter.ca www.tinytwitter.com www.twitterbuttons.com www.accessibletwitter.com twitterfeed.com twitterpatterns.com www.twitterlocal.net www.twitterbackgrounds.com twittergallery.com twitteranalyzer.com whentwitterisdown.com destroytwitter.com blog.twittervotereport.com twitter.pbworks.com twitter.polldaddy.com twitter.alltop.com twitter.infinityward.com twitter.grader.com Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com mailto:d...@mytwitterbutler.com?subject=i'm%20being%20Sued +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial). From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Darling Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:12 AM To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!! Actually, I recall it perfectly well. MS threatened action against Mike Roe (a Canadian student as I recall) for his development company. The case was settled OUT OF COURT, with MS basically having to purchase his domain. The same could be applied to this product where Twitter can not demand the URL but they can wait for it to expire and snag it or offer to buy out the owner. On the point about aggressively pursuing because they have to. That's a complete and total cop-out, if that were the case then Twitter would be going after ALL offenders and not the select bad guys, if someone gives twitter a warm fuzzy they view it as ok. According to your statement (and I reviewed the laws a while back on trademarks but will go look again) they can loose their trademark for this action alone. - Jeremy PS: I'm still not a lawyer, I still hate the product, but I still hate the thought more. Of course, their CD order is little more than a notice to disconnect :) On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Jeremy Darlingjeremy.darl...@gmail.com wrote: Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that trademark against a URL, can't be done. If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com) as well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names LOL. Several other companies have tried this as well and failed. As for Twitter TOS and developer rights. Nope, can't sue for voilation of a TOS on a public API either. You can suspend suspect activities and revoke developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS violation of this type. Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject. On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point in most cases. Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be Slander/Liable if you
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Has nothing to do with anything. Enforce your trademark evenly or don't enforce it at all. Selective enforcement is not allowed. On Aug 12, 10:57 am, Rich rhyl...@gmail.com wrote: and I'm certain the reason for adding the Twitter name violation in there in addition to all the others is that they don't want their name associated with, what is effectively a Web 2.0 spamming operation. On Aug 12, 3:55 pm, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote: Are any of these developers -selling- their products? You are. Are any of these developers violating the Terms of Service? You are. Just because another website has Twitter in the name doesn't make their situation the same as yours. You made a tool for spammers. You get caught. Get over it. On Aug 12, 10:14 am, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote: So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get an email last night?
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I love how in this discussion people keep trying to bring emotion and personal beliefs into a legal context. So he made a tool for spammers. What does that have to do with anything? First they came for the Spammers and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Spammer. There are two LEGAL issues here - The Twitter Trademark - Violation of TOS Twitter trademark - as has been mentioned by many - you can NOT selectively enforce a trademark. I don't care what the application's intended use. As for the violation of TOS - the section of the TOS that Chris quoted is explicit, but then goes vague by injecting brevity and 'kindas'. Strict interpretation would evaluate that Chris's game application is in violation of the TOS. Unfortunately most of the Twitter TOS is vague. Every application you write requires an evaluation against nothing certain. 'Hmmm this service provides value to me, and I believe it provides value to the Twitter community that it targets, but will it provide value to the Twitter lawyers?' I don't know the specifics of the My Twitter Butler application but there is probably wiggle room. On Aug 12, 10:55 am, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote: Are any of these developers -selling- their products? You are. Are any of these developers violating the Terms of Service? You are. Just because another website has Twitter in the name doesn't make their situation the same as yours. You made a tool for spammers. You get caught. Get over it. On Aug 12, 10:14 am, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote: So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get an email last night?
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
First they came for the Spammers and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Spammer. Oh really, spammers being banned equated to the Holocuast, perspective required. On Aug 12, 10:55 am, Duane Roelands duane.roela...@gmail.com wrote: Are any of these developers -selling- their products? You are. Are any of these developers violating the Terms of Service? You are. Just because another website has Twitter in the name doesn't make their situation the same as yours. You made a tool for spammers. You get caught. Get over it. On Aug 12, 10:14 am, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote: So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get an email last night?
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I pity the fool who wakes up to this thread in the morning :-)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On 8/12/09 10:14 AM, Dean Collins wrote: So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get an email last night? IANAL, but, I think the horse has already left the barn for Twitter. Unless someone is building a short-message service called Twitter it's hard to claim dilution here. The few years that Twitter hasn't policed the infringing use of their mark should be reasonable basis for estoppel, too. However, all legal issues aside, they can still shut down third-party services from using their API or otherwise accessing their service, which is probably stronger than the actual legal recourse they may be entitled to. -- Dossy Shiobara | do...@panoptic.com | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Hi Dean Well yes. It's like saying if I send one email that's okay but if I bulk email 100 people then it's regarded as wrong. Yes I'm afraid it is. You see from a users point of view, receiving lots of follower notifications from people who aren't interested in you drowns out the really useful ones of someone who is genuinely interested. It really soils the experience of Twitter and quite naturally their trying to rectify it. I can understand how you feel Dean - CD is not the nice way of doing things, it's certainly not friendly. Again, I know it's unpleasant for you, but if you can turn your anger into motivated action you will a) avoid making enemies of Twitter b) come up with another application in no time. Learning the APIs etc. would have been the bulk of your efforts. Now that's done why not refocus onto another one, you'll spend less energy doing that then dealing with CD. Social networking is a big area still and we haven't finished yet, so keep on the board and ride the wave, if nothing else try and chalk it up to experience and you'll be the wiser for it. Good luck with future endeavors Neil On 12 Aug 2009, at 16:05, Dean Collins wrote: Hi Neil So i guess what Fenwick and Webb are saying is if i manually log into twitter and click to follow each of the people who just wrote about my application thats ok http://search.twitter.com/search?q=mytwitterbutler BUT if i use a little .Net application to do it Then I'm breaking the ‘Law’ and must - Cease and Desist Cheers, Dean From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Neil Ellis Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:52 AM To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!! Seriously Dean I'm afraid that your application (like a mass mailer) is the kind of the thing that spammers use to fill up our followers list with a bunch of real estate agents and 'social media experts'. Mass following actually harms the community on Twitter which is the reason that you will be finding less sympathy than you expected. Obviously you're bright enough to write applications, rather than dig yourself a hole on this list, why not take a step back and consider what else you could do with those skills. I'm sure you could write an application that contributed to the community more now that you have the experience of writing Twitter applications. I understand that you must be feeling upset, who wouldn't when they get legalese schtick through the email. It's not nice. But they have a point and you have the opportunity to graciously accept the situation and move on to your next idea. The most valuable thing is your skill and entrepreneurial spirit, not a micro app. I wish you good luck in your endeavors. peace Neil On 12 Aug 2009, at 15:14, Dean Collins wrote: So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get an email last night? twittercounter.com twitterfall.com twitter-friends.com www.twitter.ca www.tinytwitter.com www.twitterbuttons.com www.accessibletwitter.com twitterfeed.com twitterpatterns.com www.twitterlocal.net www.twitterbackgrounds.com twittergallery.com twitteranalyzer.com whentwitterisdown.com destroytwitter.com blog.twittervotereport.com twitter.pbworks.com twitter.polldaddy.com twitter.alltop.com twitter.infinityward.com twitter.grader.com Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial). From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jeremy Darling Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:12 AM To: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!! Actually, I recall it perfectly well. MS threatened action against Mike Roe (a Canadian student as I recall) for his development company. The case was settled OUT OF COURT, with MS basically having to purchase his domain. The same could be applied to this product where Twitter can not demand the URL but they can wait for it to expire and snag it or offer to buy out the owner. On the point about aggressively pursuing because they have to. That's a complete and total cop-out, if that were the case then Twitter would be going after ALL offenders and not the select bad guys, if someone gives twitter a warm fuzzy they view it as ok. According to your statement (and I reviewed the laws a while back on trademarks but will go look again) they can loose their trademark for this action alone. - Jeremy PS: I'm still not a lawyer, I still hate the product, but I still hate the thought more. Of course, their CD order is little more than a notice to disconnect :) On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:36 AM, Andrew Badera and...@badera.us wrote
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Here's a thought, if Twitter has allowed a specific site to have their application name added to the posted from list, is that tacit permission to use the name? They've been happy to show messages as posted from Twitteriffic, which uses their name and, it could be argued, have explicitly allowed this use. On Aug 12, 4:43 pm, Dossy Shiobara do...@panoptic.com wrote: On 8/12/09 10:14 AM, Dean Collins wrote: So has anyone heard from or know any of the other developers? Did they also get an email last night? IANAL, but, I think the horse has already left the barn for Twitter. Unless someone is building a short-message service called Twitter it's hard to claim dilution here. The few years that Twitter hasn't policed the infringing use of their mark should be reasonable basis for estoppel, too. However, all legal issues aside, they can still shut down third-party services from using their API or otherwise accessing their service, which is probably stronger than the actual legal recourse they may be entitled to. -- Dossy Shiobara | do...@panoptic.com |http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network |http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I believe that threatening with legal action was the secondary choice for Twitter. The first choice would have been simply blackholing the IP address of Dean's application. However, that's impossible because it's a .Net app that makes calls from each user's IP address, much like Tweetie and TweetDeck. Was it a good move? I don't know. Now they have created yet another round of potentially bad publicity for Twitter, and they have put fear and uncertainty in the minds of all application developers who have a domain name with twitter in it. Dewald
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Oh come on, you're just being disingenous now. First they came for the pedophiles First they came for the muderers Today's society is to worried about offending someone to acknowledge the fact that YES there are univseral rights and universal wrongs. That is not to say that there isn't a difference between premeditated murder and self defense but it is perfectly acceptable to say that Premeditated Murder is ALWAYS wrong, even if for some reason it isn't illegal. In this case spamming is ALWAYS wrong. Again you need to allow for definitions. Asking to receive announcements from Dell and then having Dell follow you is on thing. But having someone autofollow you with 800 different PC resellers becasue you posted a tweet saying look at the great deal #Dell has today is WRONG. Emotional and personal beliefs SHOULD have a place in legal context and largely do in our society (read up on Jury nullification if you're interested) As another extreme example: Datamining Myspace (if it's possible I've never worked with it) for 12 year olds names and addresses etc... COULD have a purposeful use in advertising but if your $12 product is being used by 99% of people to find children to attack then your product is WRONG and needs to come off the market. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Charlescharles.r.dil...@gmail.com wrote: I love how in this discussion people keep trying to bring emotion and personal beliefs into a legal context. So he made a tool for spammers. What does that have to do with anything? First they came for the Spammers and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Spammer. *SNIP*
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Bob, Perhaps I'm being daft, but how can someone following you be spam or wrong, regardless of whether it is manual or auto follow? If you don't follow them, you don't see their tweets, and they cannot DM you. In other words, what does it matter if 50,000 undesirable accounts follow you, except for perhaps a minor personal irritation? Do you want to be selective about who is allowed and who is not allowed to follow you? Dewald On Aug 12, 1:50 pm, Bob Fishel b...@bobforthejob.com wrote: In this case spamming is ALWAYS wrong. Again you need to allow for definitions. Asking to receive announcements from Dell and then having Dell follow you is on thing. But having someone autofollow you with 800 different PC resellers becasue you posted a tweet saying look at the great deal #Dell has today is WRONG.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
It may get even harder and open the door to an already hot topic with T.W.I.T. (The Week In Tech) which is a show by Leo Laporte. I believe this show pre-dates the use of twit, and nay pre-date Twitter. I seem to recall at some point Leo Laporte would not even use Twitter as a result of feeling they were infinging on his name. I don't know the trademark status with regard to this, but he has been vocal about it to say the least. If anything, Laporte has prior art in this one. -- Scott Iphone says hello. On Aug 12, 2009, at 4:55 AM, Goblin stu...@abovetheinternet.org wrote: The question is, are they going to be going after Twitteriffic, Twitterholic, Twitpic, Twitvid, Twittelator, Twitterena, Twitterfon, iTwitter etc? I admit that I was fair game having the blue birds in the backdrop (as I say, it was a stupid project that got traction and the new version is live now anyway), but if Twitter is deciding to take down everyone with Twit in their name then there are going to be some serious issues. I know they have to show they are attempting to protect trademark or risk losing it, but this seems a little heavy handed :(
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Dewald Honest question honest answer If someone follows me, I'd like to find out about them and see if I'd like to follow them, I'd like to consider becoming friends with this person. How can I do that if 80% of my follows are Real Estate Agents. It wastes my time, it's annoying and pollutes my inbox. I think you'll find quite a few people are tired of this annoyance. I'd like to get to know my followers not have 3000 numpties following me. ATB Neil On 12 Aug 2009, at 18:07, Dewald Pretorius wrote: Bob, Perhaps I'm being daft, but how can someone following you be spam or wrong, regardless of whether it is manual or auto follow? If you don't follow them, you don't see their tweets, and they cannot DM you. In other words, what does it matter if 50,000 undesirable accounts follow you, except for perhaps a minor personal irritation? Do you want to be selective about who is allowed and who is not allowed to follow you? Dewald On Aug 12, 1:50 pm, Bob Fishel b...@bobforthejob.com wrote: In this case spamming is ALWAYS wrong. Again you need to allow for definitions. Asking to receive announcements from Dell and then having Dell follow you is on thing. But having someone autofollow you with 800 different PC resellers becasue you posted a tweet saying look at the great deal #Dell has today is WRONG.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
All this stuff about following being equated to spamming is nonsense. really, glad you cleared that up ;-)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Me :( 2009/8/12 Neil Ellis neilellis1...@googlemail.com I pity the fool who wakes up to this thread in the morning :-) -- Abraham Williams | Community Evangelist | http://web608.org Hacker | http://abrah.am | http://twitter.com/abraham Project | http://fireeagle.labs.poseurtech.com This email is: [ ] blogable [x] ask first [ ] private. Sent from Fairbanks, Alaska, United States
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Good morning Abraham ;-) On 12 Aug 2009, at 18:20, Abraham Williams wrote: Me :( 2009/8/12 Neil Ellis neilellis1...@googlemail.com I pity the fool who wakes up to this thread in the morning :-) -- Abraham Williams | Community Evangelist | http://web608.org Hacker | http://abrah.am | http://twitter.com/abraham Project | http://fireeagle.labs.poseurtech.com This email is: [ ] blogable [x] ask first [ ] private. Sent from Fairbanks, Alaska, United States
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case. The deal with MikeRoweSoft is a different issue then this one. Mike Rowe was perfectly fine in his use. However when Microsoft sent him a CD and said they would pay $ Zac Bowling
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I don't know how we get to the point of meaningful auto following. That seems hard to define. If I post a tweet mentioning photography I get 5-10 new followers in a few minutes. Use the word cock or pussy and the auto follow rate is higher. Hash tags are vulnerable here as well. In most cases, I've yet to see them come back and solicit me in any way, so I will never notice them aside from my wrongly inflated follow metrics. Under what conditions could any automated system follow someone in a meaningful way? There is no way to tell context. My suggestion is that the apps should bring in a list of suggested followers. The user of the app must review the list, and the corresponding tweets and decide to follow or not. Further, after a follow has been established, you should not communicate with that person in an unsolicited way. Treat it like email/spam. If I am bashing a brand and they want to make good on my issues, they can tweet me. They need not even follow me to start this relationship. If they want to DM me they can then start that relationship. For Starbucks to auto follow because I said starbucks sucks is not meaningful. To me, the nature of auto follow shows a wanting to use Twitter as a way to market, brand, and build relationships. That much is fine. But they want to do so in as easy a way possible. That is where I draw the line. If you want to market to me, you must put in the time to learn about me and my value to your brand. Having a robot do it for you is dirty, and in the end, will probably hurt more than help. If someone can tell me how automatic auto follow is not analogous to the end result of a spam network, my opinion may change. In the end, there is no easy way to build and establish relationships with your end users. Either do the work, or stop abusing Twitter. * The above statements are a generality, the OP may have learned a meaningful way to auto follow that I am not seeing. I do not intend to call out the OP in any way. -- Scott Iphone says hello. On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:17 AM, Dale Merritt mogul...@gmail.com wrote: What is Twitters real stance on auto following? In there API they prohibit mass following so what does that mean exactly. More than 1, 100? In my app, I had planned on integrating some meaniful auto following
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
The second you can play drinking games based on how many times a company is mentioned on local news; I think that companies ability to be clear and unambiguous becomes as hard as not getting hammered in 5 minutes of watching the news. -- Scott Iphone says hello. On Aug 12, 2009, at 6:04 AM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Logically, isn't it necessary that a clear and unambiguous definition of aggressive following to be publicly available before any legal action can be based on it?
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Apparently you fail to recall the MikeRoweSoft.com case. The deal with MikeRoweSoft is a different issue then this one. Mike Rowe was perfectly fine in his use. However when Microsoft sent him a CD and said they would pay $100 (IIRC) for his domain. His mistake was saying yah, maybe for a $1,000,000.00 in jest. Doing so was enough to claim that his intent wasn't for his own his own fair use but to hold Microsoft to pay for it. Microsoft tried to force it to domain arbitration when it turned into a PR issue for Microsoft being seen as the big bad bully for taking down a 16 year old kids personal page, so they backed down and gave him a bunch of free stuff. Using Twitter in a domain name directly related to a service that involves Twitter is a whole other issue that pretty much can get you in a lot of trouble. Zac Bowling
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I was always under the impression trademarks came down to a reasonable expectation that users could be confused as to which was the original name. In the example of the Edge iPhone game, he was called out against using Edge as a name since there was a shady software development house that owned the mark in the gaming industry. There very well could have been confusion. Edge can safely be used in other industry. If I started Edge Clothing I suspect there would be no confusion and no issue. Twitter makes sense, their only presence being the web. A user who hears Twitter, downloads a Twitter app by searching for one in their mobile store, could easily walk away thinking that mobile app is Twitter. They could easily think they are at the source. I don't see why they care, they care about service users. Alienate the 3rd part apps and Twitter is going back in time, not forward. It is the existance of this API that I believe made Twitter what it is. But tweet, I don't know the history. Is it like hash tags, a user invented term for an action within the service? To me, this is as if eBay tries to trademark selling because that is the verb describing what you do within the service. Tweet is the verb within the service, and likely was user crafted anyway. All technical and legal issues aside, this boils down to just doing the right thing. Trademark Twitter, that seems fair and smart. There will be some fallout while protecting the name, but that is just part of the process. Trademark tweet, and you are doing the wrong thing. From podcasting, syncing, downloading, IM'ing, DM'ing, texting, etc. Just leave it alone. They will do far better to allow the word to become more a household term, than to aggravate everyone. -- Scott Iphone says hello. On Aug 12, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Vision Jinx vjn...@gmail.com wrote: FYI - mashable.com just posted a story on this here http://mashable.com/2009/08/12/twitter-not-suing-developer/ Interesting to know that if Twitter gets the trademark for Tweet also what about the apps and businesses that have been using it before the claim like TweetDeck etc etc? Seems they would have a justifiable claim to the name also? How does that work? Not sure about the US but where I am if someone has made a stable reputation from a name they are also entitled to a trademark clause for it regardless if they officially trademarked it. (in my own words) The owner of a common law trademark may also file suit, but an unregistered mark may be protectable only within the geographical area within which it has been used or in geographical areas into which it may be reasonably expected to expand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV either so seek your own legal council regarding it.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I am not a lawyer, but everything I have read about this makes the below impossible. If you have a trademark on a name, you MUST protect it. Failure to protect it, results in loss of the mark. The quote below, clearly states that Twitter is not going to protect this mark. That being the case, they will lose the mark, making the filing and costs associated with it a complete waste. The statement below very well may invalidate the mark entirely. On Aug 12, 2009, at 2:52 AM, Rich wrote: I'm not aware of this but this link http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html , published only last month says We have applied to trademark Tweet because it is clearly attached to Twitter from a brand perspective but we have no intention of going after the wonderful applications and services that use the word in their name when associated with Twitter. In fact, we encourage the use of the word Tweet. -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote: I am not a lawyer, but everything I have read about this makes the below impossible. If you have a trademark on a name, you MUST protect it. Failure to protect it, results in loss of the mark. The quote below, clearly states that Twitter is not going to protect this mark. That being the case, they will lose the mark, making the filing and costs associated with it a complete waste. yeah me no atty neither. lol. wonder what they put for 'mark first used in commerce' - maybe in the future? ;-) -- \./'\./ /'\ \ ]. /'\./'\ /'\ /'\./
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Others use your following and follower list as a way to bridge new connections to interesting people. If I am interested in Person X, I can look at who is following him, and know that others are probably of like minds. I can dig into their list of followers and following, and build deeper relationships that are only separated by small degrees. If I go to someone's account and they have 500 followers, 90% of them are adult porn and social media experts, not only do I get the wrong impression as to what that person is about, but I also have a completely off kilter signal to noise ratio. On Aug 12, 2009, at 10:07 AM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: In other words, what does it matter if 50,000 undesirable accounts follow you, except for perhaps a minor personal irritation? Do you want to be selective about who is allowed and who is not allowed to follow you? -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On 8/12/09 12:50 PM, Bob Fishel wrote: As another extreme example: Datamining Myspace (if it's possible I've never worked with it) for 12 year olds names and addresses etc... COULD have a purposeful use in advertising but if your $12 product is being used by 99% of people to find children to attack then your product is WRONG and needs to come off the market. Universal wrongs? YOU are WRONG. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. See what I did there? -- Dossy Shiobara | do...@panoptic.com | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps I'm being daft, but how can someone following you be spam or wrong, regardless of whether it is manual or auto follow? It can be spam if you had your account sent to auto-notify your phone or inbox when someone follows you. 1 spam follower won't make a dent, but if one spam follower is allowed to 'live' more will follow, and thats when it gets fun. Take into account the fact that many twitter had to reach deals with phone companies for their bulk texts. If they see a substantial increase in texts sent out as result of this, they may have to renegotiate. Re-negotiations waste time :)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Adam, It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam. You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it is NOT spam. Dewald On Aug 12, 3:46 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote: It can be spam if you had your account sent to auto-notify your phone or inbox when someone follows you. 1 spam follower won't make a dent, but if one spam follower is allowed to 'live' more will follow, and thats when it gets fun.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I surely hope people would not judge me based on who is following me. They won't unless they are stupid. After all, Twitter gives you no way to control who follows you, and most people understand this. Followers do no, zero, nada harm. Just let them be. Agreed. Owkaye
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Perhaps I'm being daft, but how can someone following you be spam or wrong, regardless of whether it is manual or auto follow? It can be spam if you had your account sent to auto-notify your phone or inbox when someone follows you. You're wrong. SPAM only exists when you do NOT ask for commercial messages to be sent to you, and in this case clearly you are asking for it. Owkaye
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
**sigh** Dewald, on a technicality, you're completely right. We did opt in. It was originally a convenience to opt int, so you knew you were being followed. However since the count of bots has increased, it's now an inconvenience to constantly get follow emails\texts from bots. Perhaps they could rename it, now, to Check box to increase twitter to inbox\phone traffic Maybe one of us could add to one of our Apps the ability to notify *after*having gone through a screening processes of some sort to see if the account resembles a bot :) Of course it wont' be perfect because at the beginning of the twitterbot life, they look like a normal user lol On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Adam, It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam. You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it is NOT spam. Dewald On Aug 12, 3:46 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote: It can be spam if you had your account sent to auto-notify your phone or inbox when someone follows you. 1 spam follower won't make a dent, but if one spam follower is allowed to 'live' more will follow, and thats when it gets fun.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Let's not get into a semantic argument of spam. Spam, noise, trash followers, whatever you want to call them. They are all annoying and not what Twitter or most users want in their service. I'm unsure if a company HAS to pursue every trademark infringement to hold their trademark. Otherwise you could in theory make a company go bankrupt quickly just by setting up a bunch of shill companies using similar names and force them to pursue each fully in court. Also there is no obligation for Twitter to constantly search, identify and sue/ CD/defend against every company worldwide that uses the name Twitter. Just seems silly. IANAL however and could be wrong. dave
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Adam, I know this is off the topic of the thread, but along the same vein, this whole notion that someone can spam one via DMs is absolutely bloody bullshit. By virtue of how Twitter works, when you follow someone, you grant that person permission to DM you. They can send you the biggest load of crap, they are not spamming you. You opted in to receive DMs from them. Your only recourse is to unfollow them, and thereby remove the permission you granted them. Dewald On Aug 12, 3:56 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote: **sigh** Dewald, on a technicality, you're completely right. We did opt in. It was originally a convenience to opt int, so you knew you were being followed. However since the count of bots has increased, it's now an inconvenience to constantly get follow emails\texts from bots. Perhaps they could rename it, now, to Check box to increase twitter to inbox\phone traffic Maybe one of us could add to one of our Apps the ability to notify *after*having gone through a screening processes of some sort to see if the account resembles a bot :) Of course it wont' be perfect because at the beginning of the twitterbot life, they look like a normal user lol On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Adam, It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam. You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it is NOT spam. Dewald On Aug 12, 3:46 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote: It can be spam if you had your account sent to auto-notify your phone or inbox when someone follows you. 1 spam follower won't make a dent, but if one spam follower is allowed to 'live' more will follow, and thats when it gets fun.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Scott, Personally I think that is a mutilation of the use and purpose of Twitter. I surely hope people would not judge me based on who is following me. The only way one can maintain a clean list of people who follow you is to block those whom you don't want as followers. It is going to cause the suspension of many innocent Twitter accounts if people block others simply because they do not agree with their political views, the way they comb their hair, or their profession. Followers do no, zero, nada harm. Just let them be. Dewald On Aug 12, 3:28 pm, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote: If I go to someone's account and they have 500 followers, 90% of them are adult porn and social media experts, not only do I get the wrong impression as to what that person is about, but I also have a completely off kilter signal to noise ratio.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I surely hope people would not judge me based on who is following me. They won't unless they are stupid. After all, Twitter gives you no way to control who follows you, and most people understand this. sure they do. it's called blocking. every time a pain in the ass porn bot or social media expert following 100x more people than follow them follows me, i block them. then they can't follow me. I guess I care so little about who is following me that I never bothered to learn about this. Now that I know about it I still have no use for it, and I never will ... but it's good to know it's available to others I guess. Owkaye
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
But let me immediately add, that is on a technical definition of spam. I am fully aware that most people would label as spam any DM that they do not like. On Aug 12, 4:03 pm, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Adam, I know this is off the topic of the thread, but along the same vein, this whole notion that someone can spam one via DMs is absolutely bloody bullshit. By virtue of how Twitter works, when you follow someone, you grant that person permission to DM you. They can send you the biggest load of crap, they are not spamming you. You opted in to receive DMs from them. Your only recourse is to unfollow them, and thereby remove the permission you granted them. Dewald On Aug 12, 3:56 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote: **sigh** Dewald, on a technicality, you're completely right. We did opt in. It was originally a convenience to opt int, so you knew you were being followed. However since the count of bots has increased, it's now an inconvenience to constantly get follow emails\texts from bots. Perhaps they could rename it, now, to Check box to increase twitter to inbox\phone traffic Maybe one of us could add to one of our Apps the ability to notify *after*having gone through a screening processes of some sort to see if the account resembles a bot :) Of course it wont' be perfect because at the beginning of the twitterbot life, they look like a normal user lol On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Dewald Pretorius dpr...@gmail.com wrote: Adam, It may be an irritation and it may cost you money, but it is NOT spam. You opted in to receive the notifications on your phone, and hence it is NOT spam. Dewald On Aug 12, 3:46 pm, Adam Cloud cloudy...@gmail.com wrote: It can be spam if you had your account sent to auto-notify your phone or inbox when someone follows you. 1 spam follower won't make a dent, but if one spam follower is allowed to 'live' more will follow, and thats when it gets fun.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I used to ass well, this does not work well when number grow. On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:54 AM, JDG wrote: sure they do. it's called blocking. every time a pain in the ass porn bot or social media expert following 100x more people than follow them follows me, i block them. then they can't follow me. -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
@Thread, They're not going to be able to force dean to transfer his domain to them. His domain name isn't confusing, as twitter.com as well established. He also has a legitimate claim to the domain, regardless of how legitimate the service that serves as that claim may be. Perhaps they should go in the direction of the legal gray area that is his service? @DewaldP, I don't think i referred to people i followed myself, if i did it was done by mistake. I completely agree with the DM situation. You followed them yourselves, you took the action to do it, you can deal with the effects of that decision. I'm only talking about the notify traffic generated by being followed by accounts that twitter wouldn't consider legitimate accounts. I realize you're a little biased since many of the features you offer on the professional version of your twitter app would be rendered not necessary if the spam traffic was eliminated. That girl deserved to have her purse stolen because she had it out there for everyone to see is how i see follow spam. Clarification, when i've used the word inbox, i'm referring to the email your registered your account on, not your twitter DM inbox.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Note to self: Before painting, first pinpoint all the corners in the room.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Aug 12, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: Personally I think that is a mutilation of the use and purpose of Twitter. I surely hope people would not judge me based on who is following me. I would not judge you. No, I never take it that far. However, consider if a politician was on Twitter, and a mass follow of spam porn bots hit that person up. People unlike you and I, and others on the dev list here, very well will get the wrong impression, simply for lack of understanding how this all works. Whether it is a mutilation of the use and purpose, I can certainly see your point. Though to be honest, I do not know a person who has not looked up one person, to find who they follow and who follows them. It very much is the entire premise of myspace, facebook, and linked in. I personally use it for that purpose all the time, though I have learned based on username and profile picture how to discern a real user and a bot pretty easily with relatively good accuracy. It does muddy the pool, and make me have more pages of stuff to wade through. The only way one can maintain a clean list of people who follow you is to block those whom you don't want as followers. Also, you can privatize your account, which to be honest, I wish was not even an option, as that indeed is a mutilation of the use and purpose of twitter in my humble opinion. But tell me how feasible it is to remove followers once you get past a few thousand? It is going to cause the suspension of many innocent Twitter accounts if people block others simply because they do not agree with their political views, the way they comb their hair, or their profession. Can you elaborate on this? How does a block of a twitter account end up as a account suspension? Do multiple blocks tally up and end up being used as a way to suspend an account? Followers do no, zero, nada harm. Just let them be. I think I have shown how they do in fact harm. Even at a very basic level, if a army of bots were to follow you, say, a million of them, what would you do? You yourself would look like part of the army, you would not be able to maintain that account easily, if you put aside your ability to programatically remove those bots. Follower and following as also an at a glance metric I use to see how interesting someone may be. If they have 5000 followers, but only follow back 100, I can gauge immediately the type of twitter use that person is. If they have 5000 followers and around the same following counts, I know there is no way they are engaging all 5000 of those people, and that account has less value to me. These are pretty rough generalizations, but I certainly do not agree with the no harm statement. It just depends on your use and how you define harm, which to me is defined as inconvenience. On Aug 12, 3:28 pm, Scott Haneda talkli...@newgeo.com wrote: If I go to someone's account and they have 500 followers, 90% of them are adult porn and social media experts, not only do I get the wrong impression as to what that person is about, but I also have a completely off kilter signal to noise ratio. -- Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
None of us actually know how this might turn out but, even recognizing that this could become an uncomfortable matter for MyTwitterButler and/or Twitter, I nonetheless, decided to ask the question regarding the 1942 movie Bambi: Would Twitter Sue Bambi For Being Twitterpated? :-) : http://mylinkingpowerforum.ning.com/group/twitterpated/forum/topics/would-twitter-sue-bambi-for Thanks, and Keep STRONG!! Vincent Wright Director Of Community MyLinkingPowerForum.ning.com |
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
No I don't see what you did there There are universal wrongs. Guns aren't on of them. Premeditated murder is. So is spam. Maybe I'm slow but what are you trying to get at? -Bob On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Dossy Shiobarado...@panoptic.com wrote: *SNIP* Universal wrongs? YOU are WRONG. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. See what I did there? -- Dossy Shiobara | do...@panoptic.com | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
@Vincent No. Do you not understand that Trademark infringements occur between things that could be mistaken for each other or in the same industry, diluting a brand? A Disney film from the 1940's has what to do with a 3rd part application for a 2006-present social network? There is a CLEAR connection between MyTwitterButler and Twitter. MyTwitterButler is using Twitter as the basis for their business and clearly in the same brand space. This isn't uncomfortable for Twitter or MyTwitterButler. Were you asleep for the whole Apple Computers v Apple Music thing? As long as they weren't in similar spaces (computers weren't supposed to make sounds/music initially) everything was ok, but then once Apple got into music, the stuff got nuts and went to court. No Apple (fruit) companies were sued however or sent notices. You guys are so stupid this makes my head hurt. david On Aug 12, 3:18 pm, Vincent Wright mylinkedinpowerfo...@gmail.com wrote: None of us actually know how this might turn out but, even recognizing that this could become an uncomfortable matter for MyTwitterButler and/or Twitter, I nonetheless, decided to ask the question regarding the 1942 movie Bambi: Would Twitter Sue Bambi For Being Twitterpated? :-) :http://mylinkingpowerforum.ning.com/group/twitterpated/forum/topics/w... Thanks, and Keep STRONG!! Vincent Wright Director Of Community MyLinkingPowerForum.ning.com |
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
This incident bounced around in my head today. I think Twitter does not like the essential nature of this application, to contact members of its userbase. I would like to know what users of the premium Twitter Butler product included in their messages. I am designing a mass-contact model now, and feel extremely cautious about how I intend to contact my customers, how easily I can assure their ongoing participation is voluntary, and other concerns. Does the author of Twitter Butler have a clear understanding of how his product has been used within Twitter.com? Or does he prefer to collect ten dollars and forget it?
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
You completely missed the point of my post. It is a simple call to ethical analysis of the situation. Deeming different situations with similar outcomes (mass following or unwanted solicitation) I asked for simple justification of the community at large. In fact had I left out Deans name it could have been any generic email to the group. As for your TOS statement, I never said a company could not do so, in fact I said they could. But, the only legal recourse to a violation of this type is suspension of accounts at this level. If after account suspension Dean (or anyone else) created new accounts and utilized those to perform the same action then Twitter (or any entity) could then prove malice. For naming, go back to your law books (I know I did), his name implies the service that his product provides (IE: it answers the door when an interesting party comes by). In fact, twitter is doing further damage to this argument by not going after those good guys on their list (a trademark must be enforced in ALL cases or it shall be revoked). Twitter did not pursue revocation of the name in proper fashion with accordance to the law (they told him to hand it over and didn't offer compensation). They also did not provide the proper statue of 30 days prior written notice (note that in the US email communication is not considered valid notice and thus is why if you win a contest they have to send you a written notice you have to send back as well). Now, can we get back to my 4 points/questions with your answers? What of the 4 do you feel would be ethical and why, I'm simply curious as to the community reaction? - Jeremy On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:30 PM, David Fisher tib...@gmail.com wrote: Jeremy, The problem with your logic is that you don't feel that a company can set a ToS for how they want users to use their service. They can. There are legitimate and non-legitimate uses of Twitter. This guy screwed up, and overreacted. Case closed. Twitter's got him on the naming issue and the ToS issue (which they can change any time they like).
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Just because in all cases you can't define premeditated murder doesn't mean that premeditated murder isn't universally wrong. One person considers being followed by someone they don't want to be followed by to be spam. Others don't. Very true, however when you ask that same person if being followed by 100 or 1000 people that they don't want to be followed by as spam I would be surprised if anyone said no and that is the behavior this app encourages. To blame a tool that enables people to follow someone is like blaming the gun for killing. That's just downright stupid, or in this case, universally wrong. Again very true, however one needs to use some common sense. It's ok for people to own guns. It's not ok for people to own nuclear missiles or anthrax. Why is that? We don't blame those tools for killing... We ban there ownership because they have no legitimate use for every day normal people. My Twitter Butler falls into the nuclear missile category. I can think of no legitimate uses for wanting to follow 400 people who input any keyword. You could make the case of a niche market, I mean if you wanted to connect with people who liked to fly fish in dubai then you could look for #flyfishingindubai but with the smallness of that group the twitter web interface and manually following works just fine. At any scale where you need an app to follow people based on keywords the uses are only malicious. The only scenario I can think of that is legitimate is to compare other tweets of those who are interested in one topic. Ie if people mention #Dell what other habits do they have? However this behavior can be achieved by running searches for #Dell, culling the user names and accessing their streams directly alleviating the need for mass following. If there is a use case I haven't thought of please feel free to enlighten me. Also as a final note, I've never heard of your application nor do I have any knowledge of what it does (and I'm intentionally not going to look until this thread is done) so I don't want you to think this is a personal attack. I'm just trying to observe the reason for the TOS violation and make a case for why it is a reasonable part of the TOS. -Bob On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Dossy Shiobarado...@panoptic.com wrote: On 8/12/09 3:44 PM, Robert Fishel wrote: There are universal wrongs. Guns aren't on of them. Premeditated murder is. So is spam. Suppose you're right. Is it so very clear what premeditated murder is in all cases? How about spam? One person considers being followed by someone they don't want to be followed by to be spam. Others don't. To blame a tool that enables people to follow someone is like blaming the gun for killing. That's just downright stupid, or in this case, universally wrong. Users abusing tools can be destructive and we should define ways of handling those abuses - trying to ban or eliminate those tools is pointless. In developing and maintaining Twitter Karma, I have been very careful in selecting what features to implement. I recognize that it can still be used by people to abuse Twitter and that makes me very, very sad. However, those features are also very useful for legitimate users, so I have implemented them. I will, however, refuse to implement any feature that only benefits users who intend to abuse Twitter. In the end, I would hope that Twitter would create ways of punishing the abusive users and not Twitter Karma. -- Dossy Shiobara | do...@panoptic.com | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
David, It's called HUMOR. If your head hurts don't blame us - reduce the self-induced strain from trying to live a humorless life and you'll be ok. Untwist your bonnet a bit and relax - - - As a reminder: Labeling an indiscriminate group of people stupid is a stupid way to try to establish your own intelligence. Thanks, and Keep STRONG!! Vincent Wright Director Of Community On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:47 PM, David Fishertib...@gmail.com wrote: @Vincent No. Do you not understand that Trademark infringements occur between things that could be mistaken for each other or in the same industry, diluting a brand? A Disney film from the 1940's has what to do with a 3rd part application for a 2006-present social network? There is a CLEAR connection between MyTwitterButler and Twitter. MyTwitterButler is using Twitter as the basis for their business and clearly in the same brand space. This isn't uncomfortable for Twitter or MyTwitterButler. Were you asleep for the whole Apple Computers v Apple Music thing? As long as they weren't in similar spaces (computers weren't supposed to make sounds/music initially) everything was ok, but then once Apple got into music, the stuff got nuts and went to court. No Apple (fruit) companies were sued however or sent notices. You guys are so stupid this makes my head hurt. david On Aug 12, 3:18 pm, Vincent Wright mylinkedinpowerfo...@gmail.com wrote: None of us actually know how this might turn out but, even recognizing that this could become an uncomfortable matter for MyTwitterButler and/or Twitter, I nonetheless, decided to ask the question regarding the 1942 movie Bambi: Would Twitter Sue Bambi For Being Twitterpated? :-) :http://mylinkingpowerforum.ning.com/group/twitterpated/forum/topics/w... Thanks, and Keep STRONG!! Vincent Wright Director Of Community MyLinkingPowerForum.ning.com |
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:48 PM, Dean Collinsd...@cognation.net wrote: Any other developer being sued by Twitter today? Basically it's a WINDOWS XP .net application, if you have a mac and you stupidly purchase this and it doesn't workgo bitch to Steve Jobs. [0] If you buy this and it doesn't do what you thought it was supposed togo bitch to your mother. [0] I hope they win. ¬¬ [0] http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/ @ About Me
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Someone remind me again who was it that saw this record breaking thread coming . :-) I think the only thing that hasn't been discussed is the very nature of life itself :-) peace Neil On 12 Aug 2009, at 23:04, Gonzalo Larralde wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:48 PM, Dean Collinsd...@cognation.net wrote: Any other developer being sued by Twitter today? Basically it's a WINDOWS XP .net application, if you have a mac and you stupidly purchase this and it doesn't workgo bitch to Steve Jobs. [0] If you buy this and it doesn't do what you thought it was supposed togo bitch to your mother. [0] I hope they win. ¬¬ [0] http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/ @ About Me
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Obligatory Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Neil Ellisneilellis1...@googlemail.com wrote: Someone remind me again who was it that saw this record breaking thread coming . :-) I think the only thing that hasn't been discussed is the very nature of life itself :-) peace Neil On 12 Aug 2009, at 23:04, Gonzalo Larralde wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:48 PM, Dean Collinsd...@cognation.net wrote: Any other developer being sued by Twitter today? Basically it's a WINDOWS XP .net application, if you have a mac and you stupidly purchase this and it doesn't workgo bitch to Steve Jobs. [0] If you buy this and it doesn't do what you thought it was supposed togo bitch to your mother. [0] I hope they win. ¬¬ [0] http://www.mytwitterbutler.com/ @ About Me
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On 8/12/09 6:14 PM, Robert Fishel wrote: My Twitter Butler falls into the nuclear missile category. I can think of no legitimate uses for wanting to follow 400 people who input any keyword. Then, you're not very creative or inspired. Read on ... You could make the case of a niche market, I mean if you wanted to connect with people who liked to fly fish in dubai then you could look for #flyfishingindubai but with the smallness of that group the twitter web interface and manually following works just fine. At any scale where you need an app to follow people based on keywords the uses are only malicious. The only scenario I can think of that is legitimate is to compare other tweets of those who are interested in one topic. Ie if people mention #Dell what other habits do they have? However this behavior can be achieved by running searches for #Dell, culling the user names and accessing their streams directly alleviating the need for mass following. First, the fact that you can think of even one legitimate scenario means that the tool in question has a legitimate use. This takes it out of the nuclear or biological weapon category and puts it squarely in the guns category. So, stop suggesting that it isn't, because you're wrong. Second, anyone here who has polled 1,000+ users' timelines with any reasonable frequency knows that it's a poor solution. Following 1,000 users and polling your own friends timeline is far more efficient and scalable. (Note: The streaming API's follow API limits you to 200, which is a non-starter for any non-trivial project. The next level up, shadow requires approval and a signed agreement, which may or may not be desirable.) If there is a use case I haven't thought of please feel free to enlighten me. Suppose you're doing competitive analysis and you want to follow anyone who mentions your client or your client's competitors, in order to perform some analysis and produce some reports. The one thing that computers do well is repetitive tasks. Sure, you can do everything manually using Twitter Search and the web UI, but if you're doing the same repetitive thing over and over, you've failed to fully utilize your computer. Automation of repetitive tasks is inevitable and desirable: let people focus on more value-add activities that cannot be simply automated by a machine. ... Many third-party Twitter applications *can* be used to abuse Twitter, not only the one we're actively discussing. Has Kevin Mesiab received a similar CD and take-down threat for Hummingbird, which has similar bulk-following capability? If there's ever a tool that's so very well-known for being abused by Twitter spammers, it's Hummingbird. My guess? Probably not. Why not? I suspect the bulk of the issue here is the fact that My Twitter Butler has the name Twitter embedded in it. Hummingbird has no such issue. As Twitter continues to mature, I'm sure we'll see a lot more of these kind of things happen. Once the lawyers get their hands on Twitter's money, it'll only get worse, and they'll be grasping harder and harder at whatever reasons they can find to send a letter. There's that old joke ... There was a lawyer who moved to a new town. He was the only lawyer in town. For months, he was starving, trying to find work. Then, another lawyer moved into town. Since then, business has never been better. -- Dossy Shiobara | do...@panoptic.com | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70)
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I would give my legs to stop all those Social media expert types following me because I said something, it's god awful constantly having Bob I make $100,000 a day and you can too just sign up for this $500 product through my referral link is now following you! emails. uh, off topic.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Could we please not quote the *entire* *original* *message* with every reply? -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- They told me I was gullible ... and I believed them. ---
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Sorry Cameron :-) it's just so easy to hit that button :-) peace Neil On 12 Aug 2009, at 04:02, Cameron Kaiser wrote: Could we please not quote the *entire* *original* *message* with every reply? -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- They told me I was gullible ... and I believed them. ---
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
The same TOS that applies to users applies to developers, along with this one: http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Terms-of-Service http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Terms-of-ServiceIf you haven't already, I encourage all developers to familiarize themselves with both. You may also, now, find more value in joining the Twitter Developers Alliance, which is presently working on the first draft of the Twitter Developers Bill of Rights, which Twitter has agreed to coordinate with. I'm very interested to learn more about the specifics, if there is some developer TOS I'm unaware of. -- Kevin Mesiab CEO, Mesiab Labs L.L.C. http://twitter.com/kmesiab http://mesiablabs.com http://retweet.com
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 20:48, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote: Any other developer being sued by Twitter today? I might be. Oh wait, no, I'm not, because I know the difference between a lawsuit and a cease and desist letter that enumerates all the things I'm doing that violates Twitter's terms of service. Glad I learned to read. -- Internets. Serious business.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Funny thing about trademarking a name and trying to utilize that trademark against a URL, can't be done. If so, MicroSoft would have nailed people left and right for infringement upon IE (can we say IE7.com and IE8.com) as well as several other websites that utilize trademarked MS product names LOL. Several other companies have tried this as well and failed. As for Twitter TOS and developer rights. Nope, can't sue for voilation of a TOS on a public API either. You can suspend suspect activities and revoke developer/company rights but you can't actually file suite on a TOS violation of this type. Lots of statuatory presidence on the subject. On point 3, 80% rule along with the fact that you have clearly labeled in valid font size the non-affiliation with Twitter again negates this point in most cases. Actually, about the only thing they could get you for would be Slander/Liable if you were spreading bad publicity about the company that was un-true. In that case, they could get you for everything your worth LOL. Then again, being a public entity they would fall under the same laws as the movie stars and other public figures and would basically have to suck it up in the end. - Jeremy
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
As others have pointed out, this isn't a lawsuit. That aside, Twitter announced some time ago that they were not comfortable with people using their name as part of the name of their product ( http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html) , so it seems odd that you would be surprised by this. Regardless, you'll get little sympathy from me. Your application encourages many of the behaviors most twitter users find annoying. The Twitter ecosystem is frankly better off without it. Larry Wright http://larrywright.me On Aug 11, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Dean Collins wrote: Any other developer being sued by Twitter today? If so give me a call – feel free to tweet out www.MyTwitterButler.com/I ’m_Being_Sued to anyone you want – looking forward to the press having a field day with this. Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
I'm glad you feel you can move on.I'm the one facing legal action!! (and yes I read the comment I'm not being suedI'm facing legal action) Does Twitter inc know that their lawyers are shutting down the third party developer community? (sorry I'm new to this and freaking out - never had a lawyer sue me like this) Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial). -Original Message- From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto:twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of jim.renkel Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:51 PM To: Twitter Development Talk Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!! An interesting implication is buried in all of this. FACT: http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Terms-of-Service states: Please give us a nod in your app, perhaps by including one of these stylish Powered by Twitter badges, which I read as If ya use the API you must acknowledge twitter. FACT: The letter from twitter's lawyers states: stop all use of ... the TWITTER mark, which I read as Ya can't use the word twitter in your application or on your website. IMPLICATION: No one can use the API !!! I guess we should all pack up and move on. Jim On Aug 11, 10:13 pm, Larry Wright larrywri...@gmail.com wrote: As others have pointed out, this isn't a lawsuit. That aside, Twitter announced some time ago that they were not comfortable with people using their name as part of the name of their product (http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html) , so it seems odd that you would be surprised by this. Regardless, you'll get little sympathy from me. Your application encourages many of the behaviors most twitter users find annoying. The Twitter ecosystem is frankly better off without it. Larry Wrighthttp://larrywright.me On Aug 11, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Dean Collins wrote: Any other developer being sued by Twitter today? If so give me a call - feel free to tweet outwww.MyTwitterButler.com/I 'm_Being_Sued to anyone you want - looking forward to the press having a field day with this. Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
(sorry I'm new to this and freaking out - never had a lawyer sue me like this) And you still haven't.
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Twitter warned a while back that they where being granted the trademark for Twitter and they would like developers to no longer use Twitter in their product names. This does not mean you can't display a powered by twitter logo. They just don't want you associating their brand name with your product's name. Users might get confused what is and is not a twitter product. I'm sorry but Dean you are using their trademark in your product name which violates the trademark. You have been asked nicely to stop. They could easily take you to court and probably sue every dime out of your company. From the letter it seems its just a warning, not a law suite yet. Best to comply with them and avoid a law suit. **note I am not a lawyer and this is just my two cents. i'd recommend talking with your own lawyer on what rights you have in this case.** Best of luck Josh On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:56 PM, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote: I'm glad you feel you can move on.I'm the one facing legal action!! (and yes I read the comment I'm not being suedI'm facing legal action) Does Twitter inc know that their lawyers are shutting down the third party developer community? (sorry I'm new to this and freaking out - never had a lawyer sue me like this) Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial). -Original Message- From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto: twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of jim.renkel Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:51 PM To: Twitter Development Talk Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!! An interesting implication is buried in all of this. FACT: http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Terms-of-Service states: Please give us a nod in your app, perhaps by including one of these stylish Powered by Twitter badges, which I read as If ya use the API you must acknowledge twitter. FACT: The letter from twitter's lawyers states: stop all use of ... the TWITTER mark, which I read as Ya can't use the word twitter in your application or on your website. IMPLICATION: No one can use the API !!! I guess we should all pack up and move on. Jim On Aug 11, 10:13 pm, Larry Wright larrywri...@gmail.com wrote: As others have pointed out, this isn't a lawsuit. That aside, Twitter announced some time ago that they were not comfortable with people using their name as part of the name of their product ( http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html) , so it seems odd that you would be surprised by this. Regardless, you'll get little sympathy from me. Your application encourages many of the behaviors most twitter users find annoying. The Twitter ecosystem is frankly better off without it. Larry Wrighthttp://larrywright.me On Aug 11, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Dean Collins wrote: Any other developer being sued by Twitter today? If so give me a call - feel free to tweet outwww.MyTwitterButler.com/I 'm_Being_Sued to anyone you want - looking forward to the press having a field day with this. Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial). -- Josh
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Not taking sides, here, but so far you are the only one that has reported receiving the CD letter. How do you get from 1 instance of legal action to Twitter's lawyers are shutting down the third party developer community? - h On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 20:56, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote: Does Twitter inc know that their lawyers are shutting down the third party developer community?
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Have you consider renaming your app to Tweetrobot , twtrbutler, tweeturk? They own the brand Twitter why not rename your service? -E Gpro.ws On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 11:56 PM, Dean Collins d...@cognation.net wrote: I'm glad you feel you can move on.I'm the one facing legal action!! (and yes I read the comment I'm not being suedI'm facing legal action) Does Twitter inc know that their lawyers are shutting down the third party developer community? (sorry I'm new to this and freaking out - never had a lawyer sue me like this) Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial). -Original Message- From: twitter-development-talk@googlegroups.com [mailto: twitter-development-t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of jim.renkel Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:51 PM To: Twitter Development Talk Subject: [twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!! An interesting implication is buried in all of this. FACT: http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Terms-of-Service states: Please give us a nod in your app, perhaps by including one of these stylish Powered by Twitter badges, which I read as If ya use the API you must acknowledge twitter. FACT: The letter from twitter's lawyers states: stop all use of ... the TWITTER mark, which I read as Ya can't use the word twitter in your application or on your website. IMPLICATION: No one can use the API !!! I guess we should all pack up and move on. Jim On Aug 11, 10:13 pm, Larry Wright larrywri...@gmail.com wrote: As others have pointed out, this isn't a lawsuit. That aside, Twitter announced some time ago that they were not comfortable with people using their name as part of the name of their product ( http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html) , so it seems odd that you would be surprised by this. Regardless, you'll get little sympathy from me. Your application encourages many of the behaviors most twitter users find annoying. The Twitter ecosystem is frankly better off without it. Larry Wrighthttp://larrywright.me On Aug 11, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Dean Collins wrote: Any other developer being sued by Twitter today? If so give me a call - feel free to tweet outwww.MyTwitterButler.com/I 'm_Being_Sued to anyone you want - looking forward to the press having a field day with this. Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).
[twitter-dev] Re: FW: Twitter is Suing me!!!
Not to add fuel to the fire either, but looks like Twitter may have to become like the RIAA and spend all their money suing half the Internet (or paying high priced lawyers to send out letters etc) Re: 2/ That no one can use the word Twitter in their domain A quick Google search reveals... twittercounter.com twitterfall.com twitter-friends.com www.twitter.ca www.tinytwitter.com www.twitterbuttons.com www.accessibletwitter.com twitterfeed.com twitterpatterns.com www.twitterlocal.net www.twitterbackgrounds.com twittergallery.com twitteranalyzer.com whentwitterisdown.com destroytwitter.com blog.twittervotereport.com twitter.pbworks.com twitter.polldaddy.com twitter.alltop.com twitter.infinityward.com twitter.grader.com and the list goes on... On Aug 11, 9:50 pm, jim.renkel james.ren...@gmail.com wrote: An interesting implication is buried in all of this. FACT:http://apiwiki.twitter.com/Terms-of-Servicestates: Please give us a nod in your app, perhaps by including one of these stylish Powered by Twitter badges, which I read as If ya use the API you must acknowledge twitter. FACT: The letter from twitter's lawyers states: stop all use of ... the TWITTER mark, which I read as Ya can't use the word twitter in your application or on your website. IMPLICATION: No one can use the API !!! I guess we should all pack up and move on. Jim On Aug 11, 10:13 pm, Larry Wright larrywri...@gmail.com wrote: As others have pointed out, this isn't a lawsuit. That aside, Twitter announced some time ago that they were not comfortable with people using their name as part of the name of their product (http://blog.twitter.com/2009/07/may-tweets-be-with-you.html) , so it seems odd that you would be surprised by this. Regardless, you'll get little sympathy from me. Your application encourages many of the behaviors most twitter users find annoying. The Twitter ecosystem is frankly better off without it. Larry Wrighthttp://larrywright.me On Aug 11, 2009, at 9:48 PM, Dean Collins wrote: Any other developer being sued by Twitter today? If so give me a call – feel free to tweet outwww.MyTwitterButler.com/I ’m_Being_Sued to anyone you want – looking forward to the press having a field day with this. Regards, Dean Collins d...@mytwitterbutler.com +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial).
