Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 28 Sep 2019, at 14:55, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, September 28, 2019 at 4:18:58 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > You must have a special definition of "computable number". As I see it, other > than PI, e, and possibly a few other irrational numbers, no computer can >

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 28 Sep 2019, at 11:20, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Saturday, September 28, 2019 at 2:28:14 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 27 Sep 2019, at 18:42, Alan Grayson > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 10:31:02 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 27 Sep

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 28 Sep 2019, at 11:18, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Saturday, September 28, 2019 at 2:28:14 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 27 Sep 2019, at 18:42, Alan Grayson > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 10:31:02 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 27 Sep

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Saturday, September 28, 2019 at 4:18:58 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > *You must have a special definition of "computable number". As I see it, > other than PI, e, and possibly a few other irrational numbers, no computer > can fully compute any of them, which have the cardinality of

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Saturday, September 28, 2019 at 2:28:14 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 27 Sep 2019, at 18:42, Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 10:31:02 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 27 Sep 2019, at 11:23, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday,

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Saturday, September 28, 2019 at 2:28:14 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 27 Sep 2019, at 18:42, Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 10:31:02 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 27 Sep 2019, at 11:23, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday,

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 27 Sep 2019, at 18:42, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 10:31:02 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 27 Sep 2019, at 11:23, Alan Grayson > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 5:47:10 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 24

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 10:31:02 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 27 Sep 2019, at 11:23, Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 5:47:10 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 24 Sep 2019, at 17:03, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday,

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 27 Sep 2019, at 11:23, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 5:47:10 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 24 Sep 2019, at 17:03, Alan Grayson > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 8:52:50 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 5:47:10 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 24 Sep 2019, at 17:03, Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 8:52:50 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 8:37:23 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 24 Sep 2019, at 17:03, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 8:52:50 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 8:37:23 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 23 Sep 2019, at 15:18, Alan Grayson > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday,

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 8:52:50 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 8:37:23 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 23 Sep 2019, at 15:18, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 5:21:38 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 8:37:23 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 23 Sep 2019, at 15:18, Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 5:21:38 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 2:44:05 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 23 Sep 2019, at 15:18, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 5:21:38 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 2:44:05 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 21 Sep 2019, at 17:00, Alan Grayson > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday,

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 5:21:38 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 2:44:05 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 21 Sep 2019, at 17:00, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 4:02:09 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 2:44:05 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Sep 2019, at 17:00, Alan Grayson > > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 4:02:09 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with >>

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

he successor principle as codified in > Peano's postulates seems a simply inference from observations, that is, an > extension of them. It's not sometime inherently mysterious dependent on what > Godel proved. Can you say exactly, in a few words, why Godel is relevant to > any of

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

eness. Since Gödel, we know not only that elementary arithmetic is Turing universal (and thus explains the existence of all universal machineries), but we know that some universal knows that they are universal, and here the theorem of Löb and Solovay add much more precision. To be continue, if you a

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 21 Sep 2019, at 17:00, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 4:02:09 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with > computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly > simulated

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 20 Sep 2019, at 05:29, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 9/19/2019 4:42 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 12:52:03 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 9/19/2019 2:45 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> > Don't you use definitions in

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

of the physical > world, which you see as illusional. The successor principle as *codified* > in Peano's postulates seems a simply inference from observations, that is, > an extension of them. It's not sometime inherently mysterious dependent on > what Godel proved. Can you say exac

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

ction or principle is derivable independent of the physical world, which you see as illusional. The successor principle as *codified* in Peano's postulates seems a simply inference from observations, that is, an extension of them. It's not sometime inherently mysterious dependent on what Godel pr

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

ousness”. Not we don”t have a definition of consciousness, but for those who claim to not know, I suggest to ask their dentist to not use anesthetiser, and they will have a pretty good idea of what is it to be like having consciousness. Consciousness is what gives sense to pain, pleasure, knowledge

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 19 Sep 2019, at 12:12, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 3:56:43 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 5:45 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > > Don't you use definitions in physics, such as mass, energy, velocity, > > acceleration, space, time,

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 19 Sep 2019, at 11:56, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 5:45 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > > Don't you use definitions in physics, such as mass, energy, velocity, > > acceleration, space, time, entropy? > > Sure, and every one of those

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 19 Sep 2019, at 03:45, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 4:02:09 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with > computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly > simulated

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 19 Sep 2019, at 00:16, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 9/18/2019 2:58 PM, John Clark wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:25 PM 'Brent Meeker' >> mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> >> wrote: >> >> > Haven't you ever awoken from surgery? AG >> >> >>

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 18 Sep 2019, at 23:01, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 3:27:55 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > On 9/18/2019 11:55 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:14:14 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 9/18/2019 3:02 AM, Alan

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 18 Sep 2019, at 21:30, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 1:14:36 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 2:55 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > > You know, there are things we call "dictionaries" where words are defined. > > And all those

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 18 Sep 2019, at 20:55, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:14:14 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > On 9/18/2019 3:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system > > with computer microchips and

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 18 Sep 2019, at 13:11, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:02 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with > > computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly >

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 18 Sep 2019, at 12:33, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 5:02:09 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with > computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly > simulated

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

> On 18 Sep 2019, at 12:02, Alan Grayson wrote: > > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with > computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly > simulated so the person who says "Yes doctor", will awake from the surgery > thinking

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 4:02:09 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with > computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly > simulated so the person who says "Yes doctor", will awake from the

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On 9/19/2019 4:42 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 12:52:03 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 9/19/2019 2:45 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > Don't you use definitions in physics, such as mass, energy, velocity, > acceleration, space, time, entropy? Without

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On 9/19/2019 11:04 AM, AG wrote: I think you've nailed the problem. We don't know how to define "consciousness". In terms of what? Presumably it's properties, as we define other entities in physics, such as the electron. Who was the SC justice who said you know pornography when you see it,

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 4:02:09 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with > computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly > simulated so the person who says "Yes doctor", will awake from the

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 12:52:03 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 9/19/2019 2:45 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > Don't you use definitions in physics, such as mass, energy, velocity, > > acceleration, space, time, entropy? Without them, we simply couldn't > > do physics. Here, as in

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On 9/19/2019 2:45 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: Don't you use definitions in physics, such as mass, energy, velocity, acceleration, space, time, entropy? Without them, we simply couldn't do physics. Here, as in your MW obsession, you seem opaque to reality. AG Sure. But ultimately they are all

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 10:00:13 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:14:14 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 9/18/2019 3:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system >> > with

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:14:14 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 9/18/2019 3:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system > > with computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or > > perfectly simulated so the

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 6:43 AM Alan Grayson wrote: *> How would you know what a LT is unless it was well defined?* > By seeing it used in relation to something in the physical world, but I never have so I have no idea what a "LT" is, but I do know IHA. John K Clark > -- You received

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 4:33:41 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 6:12 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > >> > *I am not saying that examples are not suggestive of laws of physics. >> All I am saying, which you irrationally deny, is that definitions are part >> of

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 6:12 AM Alan Grayson wrote: > > *I am not saying that examples are not suggestive of laws of physics. > All I am saying, which you irrationally deny, is that definitions are part > of an overall process for knowing reality,* > Definitions have nothing to do with knowing

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 3:56:43 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 5:45 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > >> > Don't you use definitions in physics, such as mass, energy, velocity, >> acceleration, space, time, entropy? >> > > Sure, and every one of those

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 5:45 AM Alan Grayson wrote: > > Don't you use definitions in physics, such as mass, energy, velocity, > acceleration, space, time, entropy? > Sure, and every one of those definitions came from EXAMPLES observed in the physical world. The definitions didn't create the

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 2:40:29 AM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 9:40 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > >> There is more, much more in a dictionary than definitions made of >>> words that are also made of words?! Please give me an *EXAMPLE* of that. >>> >> >> *> Do

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 3:40:29 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 9:40 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > >> There is more, much more in a dictionary than definitions made of >>> words that are also made of words?! Please give me an *EXAMPLE* of that. >>> >> >> *> Do

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 9:40 PM Alan Grayson wrote: >> There is more, much more in a dictionary than definitions made of words >> that are also made of words?! Please give me an *EXAMPLE* of that. >> > > *> Do you use a dictionary? AG * > The last time I used a dictionary was when I was trying

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 4:02:09 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with > computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly > simulated so the person who says "Yes doctor", will awake from the

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 1:37:19 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 3:30 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > >> * > there's more, much more to dictionaries, than you claim.* >> > > There is more, much more in a dictionary than definitions made of words > that are

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On 9/18/2019 5:39 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: I On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 10:17, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 9/18/2019 3:22 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 08:16, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

I On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 10:17, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 9/18/2019 3:22 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 08:16, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On 9/18/2019 3:22 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 08:16, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 9/18/2019 2:58 PM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:25 PM 'Brent Meeker'

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 08:16, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > On 9/18/2019 2:58 PM, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:25 PM 'Brent Meeker' < > everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > *> **Haven't you ever awoken from surgery?

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On 9/18/2019 2:58 PM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:25 PM 'Brent Meeker'  > wrote: /> //Haven't you ever awoken from surgery? AG / / / />> Yes, and I think I was just the same as before and so does everyone else. But

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:25 PM 'Brent Meeker' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: *> **Haven't you ever awoken from surgery? AG * > > *>> Yes, and I think I was just the same as before and so does everyone > else. But maybe I am fundamentally different. How would I know?* > > >>> You'd

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 3:27:55 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 9/18/2019 11:55 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:14:14 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 9/18/2019 3:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> > I think he means one can replace a human

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On 9/18/2019 11:55 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:14:14 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: On 9/18/2019 3:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system > with computer microchips and consciousness will

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On 9/18/2019 11:14 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 21:58, Alan Grayson > wrote: On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 4:50:36 AM UTC-6, stathisp wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 20:02, Alan Grayson wrote:

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 3:30 PM Alan Grayson wrote: > * > there's more, much more to dictionaries, than you claim.* > There is more, much more in a dictionary than definitions made of words that are also made of words?! Please give me an *EXAMPLE* of that. John K Clark -- You received this

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 1:14:36 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 2:55 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > *> You know, there are things we call "dictionaries" where words are >> defined.* >> > > And all those dictionary definitions are made of words, and all those

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 2:55 PM Alan Grayson wrote: *> You know, there are things we call "dictionaries" where words are > defined.* > And all those dictionary definitions are made of words, and all those words have there own definitions also in the dictionary, and all those words have there

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:14:14 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > > On 9/18/2019 3:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system > > with computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or > > perfectly simulated so the

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 21:58, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 4:50:36 AM UTC-6, stathisp wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 20:02, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >>> I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system >>> with computer microchips

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On 9/18/2019 3:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly simulated so the person who says "Yes doctor", will awake from the surgery thinking he/she's the same

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 4:50:36 AM UTC-6, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 20:02, Alan Grayson > wrote: > >> I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with >> computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly >>

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:02 AM Alan Grayson wrote: *> I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system > with computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly > simulated so the person who says "Yes doctor", will awake from the surgery > thinking

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 20:02, Alan Grayson wrote: > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with > computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly > simulated so the person who says "Yes doctor", will awake from the surgery > thinking he/she's

Re: What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 5:02:09 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: > > I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with > computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly > simulated so the person who says "Yes doctor", will awake from the

What is Mechanism, Bruno style?

I think he means one can replace a human brain and/or nervous system with computer microchips and consciousness will be preserved, or perfectly simulated so the person who says "Yes doctor", will awake from the surgery thinking he/she's the same person, like awakening from unremarkable

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02 Jul 2012, at 20:12, meekerdb wrote: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, Chairs and people are also mathematical objects, just really complex ones with a large information content. This is

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02 Jul 2012, at 20:21, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:12 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, Chairs and people are also mathematical

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02 Jul 2012, at 21:01, meekerdb wrote: On 7/2/2012 11:21 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:12 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers,

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02 Jul 2012, at 21:08, meekerdb wrote: On 7/2/2012 11:50 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 02.07.2012 20:12 meekerdb said the following: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, Chairs and people are

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02 Jul 2012, at 23:09, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point: BM: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, JR: Chairs and people are also mathematical objects, just really complex ones with a large information

Re: what is mechanism?

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 11:55 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 6:15 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 5:35 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 2:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point: BM: Do you

Re: what is mechanism?

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 02 Jul 2012, at 23:09, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point: BM: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, JR: Chairs and people are also

Re: what is mechanism?

Citeren meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 7/2/2012 6:15 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 5:35 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 2:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point:

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02.07.2012 22:01 meekerdb said the following: On 7/2/2012 12:45 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 02.07.2012 21:08 meekerdb said the following: On 7/2/2012 11:50 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... Where to will you place 'description' in the physicalism? Is this just some excitation of natural

Re: what is mechanism?

On 03 Jul 2012, at 16:33, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 02 Jul 2012, at 23:09, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point: BM: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and

Re: what is mechanism?

On 7/1/2012 7:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:36 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/1/2012 5:21 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Jul 1, 2012, at 6:27 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:

Re: what is mechanism?

On 01 Jul 2012, at 20:20, meekerdb wrote: On 7/1/2012 4:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jul 2012, at 09:41, meekerdb wrote: On 7/1/2012 12:17 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Jun 2012, at 22:31, meekerdb wrote: On 6/30/2012 12:20 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Jun 2012, at 18:44,

Re: what is mechanism?

On 7/2/2012 4:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jul 2012, at 20:20, meekerdb wrote: On 7/1/2012 4:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Except neither fortran nor Turing machines exist apart from physical realizations. Of course they do. Turing machine and fortran program are mathematical,

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02 Jul 2012, at 03:36, meekerdb wrote: That's right. We can discover properties of real things that are not part of their defining description - unlike say the number 17. That's weird. We might discover one day that 17 has some property we have not yet think of. The number 24 has been

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02 Jul 2012, at 03:36, meekerdb wrote: I don't discount the possibility that Bruno's 'everything is arithmetic' might be a good model, I just haven't seen any predictive power yet. 1) A refutation of a theory metaphysical physicalism in the cognitive science does not need any

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02 Jul 2012, at 04:45, Jason Resch wrote: I agree that solving one problem (ontology) has created a new one (predicting experiences), but if solutions to old problems didn't bring new questions, science would have hit a dead end long ago. But just because we are faced with a new

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02 Jul 2012, at 10:28, Stephen P. King wrote: On 7/2/2012 4:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Jul 2012, at 20:20, meekerdb wrote: On 7/1/2012 4:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Except neither fortran nor Turing machines exist apart from physical realizations. Of course they do. Turing

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02 Jul 2012, at 11:54, Bruno Marchal wrote (to Stephen): It is the believe that the principle of excluded middle can be apply on the arithmetical sentence. In particular the proof needs ony the belief that phi_i(j) converge or diverge, or that the machine i applied on j stops or does

Re: what is mechanism?

On 7/2/2012 1:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: It is no different than abstracting apples and oranges as fruit so that we can add one apple to one orange and get two fruit. It doesn't make apples and oranges the same thing. Sure. But it makes both of them being incarnation of fruit, showing that

Re: what is mechanism?

On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, Chairs and people are also mathematical objects, just really complex ones with a large information content. This is the necessary conclusion of anyone who

Re: what is mechanism?

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:12 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, Chairs and people are also mathematical objects, just really complex ones with a large

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02 Jul 2012, at 19:39, meekerdb wrote: On 7/2/2012 1:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: It is no different than abstracting apples and oranges as fruit so that we can add one apple to one orange and get two fruit. It doesn't make apples and oranges the same thing. Sure. But it makes both

Re: what is mechanism?

On 02.07.2012 20:12 meekerdb said the following: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, Chairs and people are also mathematical objects, just really complex ones with a large information content. This

Re: what is mechanism?

On 7/2/2012 11:21 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:12 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers,

Re: what is mechanism?

On 7/2/2012 11:50 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 02.07.2012 20:12 meekerdb said the following: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, Chairs and people are also mathematical objects, just really complex

Re: what is mechanism?

On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 2:01 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 11:21 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:12 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and

Re: what is mechanism?

On 7/2/2012 12:08 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 2:01 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 7/2/2012 11:21 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 1:12 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:

Re: what is mechanism?

On 7/2/2012 12:45 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 02.07.2012 21:08 meekerdb said the following: On 7/2/2012 11:50 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 02.07.2012 20:12 meekerdb said the following: On 7/2/2012 7:36 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs

Re: what is mechanism?

On 7/2/2012 2:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: To summarize our conversation up to this point: BM: Do you really not see any difference between tables and chairs and people and numbers, JR: Chairs and people are also mathematical objects, just really complex ones with a large information content.

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