Re: A Mathematical Proof That The Universe Could Have Formed Spontaneously From Nothing

2014-06-25 Thread Alberto G. Corona
That proof, like any multiverse with no assumptions, includes the possibility that the earth was supported by a giant over a turtle in a sea of water and then vanished moments before Magallanes circumnavigated the globe. But it add nothing to the beauty of the greek myth. In fact it add nothing

Re: Disproving physicalism from COMP

2014-06-25 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2014-06-25 6:52 GMT+02:00 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 6/24/2014 2:29 AM, LizR wrote: On 24 June 2014 17:04, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: If primitive matter existed, and if it has a role for consciousness, or for consciousness instantiation, step 8, and the argument above,

Re: Pluto bounces back!

2014-06-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Jun 2014, at 03:57, meekerdb wrote: On 6/23/2014 7:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: There is a problem with radical islamism, but the real problem is in the exploitation of that problem by bandits to hide their lucrative criminal activities. This is naive. Bandits do lucrative criminal

Re: Disproving physicalism from COMP

2014-06-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Jun 2014, at 09:40, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-06-25 6:52 GMT+02:00 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 6/24/2014 2:29 AM, LizR wrote: On 24 June 2014 17:04, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: If primitive matter existed, and if it has a role for consciousness, or for

Re: Disproving physicalism from COMP

2014-06-25 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2014-06-25 10:15 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 25 Jun 2014, at 09:40, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-06-25 6:52 GMT+02:00 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 6/24/2014 2:29 AM, LizR wrote: On 24 June 2014 17:04, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: If primitive matter

Re: Disproving physicalism from COMP

2014-06-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Jun 2014, at 10:22, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-06-25 10:15 GMT+02:00 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: On 25 Jun 2014, at 09:40, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-06-25 6:52 GMT+02:00 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net: On 6/24/2014 2:29 AM, LizR wrote: On 24 June 2014 17:04, meekerdb

Re: American Intelligence -- Thinking about Thinking

2014-06-25 Thread Kim Jones
If you look at a plate and see two apples on it then the testing apparatus is your eye. Anyone else with properly functioning eyes would see the same to Apples. When people tell you about their experience you are not using their testing apparatus directly. The person might have experienced an

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
No, its not a psychological thing. A psychological thing would be avoidence, as in ignoring what people say and do and just going with a feeling. This is years of observing the actions of your side. It's purely, observing speeches and behavior, and borrowing from old, Claude Shannon (who worked

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread Richard Ruquist
Spud: Specifically, it's the use of auditing conservative groups, using the US IRS, and never, not once, auditing liberal groups; and this by the admission of the heads of the IRS. RR: Untrue. As of last year the only org to lose their tax exempt status was a liberal org from Maine

Re: Pluto bounces back!

2014-06-25 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
I always thought the Organian (was that the blond kid in the toga?) looked like he should've been serving crudites' in a fine restaurant. It wasn't the Gorn, ss! Or the light globes betting 10 Qwat-loo's? Anyways, God, as a mind emerging from the universe, gets us away from Aquinas' view or

Re: Pluto bounces back!

2014-06-25 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
Brent, Jesus people don't become murdering martyr's anymore, so let's focus where the problem is. Look at Nigeria, Sudan, Syria,a and Iraq, and draw together the facts. If it was Buddhists setting off bombs in subways' one could concede your point. Also, I am not a Jesus person, and don't hate

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote: Right off the bat: sorry for this slightly OT post. There is stuff about discrimination/labeling in the linked video clip below, concerning the profound truth of All men are rats, however. Higher

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: In terms of ideological nutjobs, I suspect that the solution is counter-intuitive. Instead of fighting them, perhaps it's better to not react to them at all. Treat a skinhead like a perfectly normal person and the

Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 27 May 2014, at 01:37, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 12:53 AM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of LizR Sent:

Re: Selecting your future branch

2014-06-25 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Predictions are great for validating scientific theories but predictions, good bad or ugly, have absolutely nothing to do with establishing a sense of self. We use the usual sense of self defined by the yes doctor.

Re: Is Consciousness Computable?

2014-06-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 May 2014, at 04:36, LizR wrote: On 28 May 2014 14:12, ghib...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 2:24:39 AM UTC+1, Liz R wrote: As far as I can see Bruno has a logical argument which happens to segue into a theory of physics. To disprove it, one merely needs to show that

Re: Is Consciousness Computable?

2014-06-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 29 May 2014, at 00:17, LizR wrote: On 28 May 2014 19:46, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 5/28/2014 12:35 AM, LizR wrote: On 28 May 2014 16:20, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: I think the more crucial step is arguing that computation (and therefore consciousness) can exist

Re: Germany sets record for peak energy use - 50 percent comes from solar (Update)

2014-06-25 Thread John Clark
On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 6:13 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: the cost of solar panels is still in free fall Even if the cost of solar cells fell to zero it wouldn't be enough to replace fossil fuels even at today's levels much less provide enough energy to enable developing countries (the

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
Dr. Marchal, do you ever get in conversations with your fellow academician, Clement Vidal? He's a philosopher at your University? Do you ever get into the Evo-Devo view? -Original Message- From: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list everything-list@googlegroups.com

consciousness and second law (was: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
Sorry for bumping an old post. I comment both Brent and Liz. It is an interesting subject, and those post here are crucial (for the undersatnding of the comp mind-body problem). On 10 Jun 2014, at 10:07, LizR wrote: On 10 June 2014 16:52, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Yeah that's

Re: A Mathematical Proof That The Universe Could Have Formed Spontaneously From Nothing

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
A very interesting paper filling out a conjecture by Scott Aaronson and similar to Bruce's analysis but with more detail. It doesn't so much solve the foundational problem, as usually conceived, as define what FAPP must mean and quantify it in computational terms (instead of probability units

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Jun 2014, at 13:37, David Nyman wrote: On 10 June 2014 04:09, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: They're along for the ride like temperature is alftr on the kinetic energy of molecules. Before stat mech, heat was regarded as an immaterial substance. It was explained by the

Re: A Mathematical Proof That The Universe Could Have Formed Spontaneously From Nothing

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/24/2014 7:34 PM, LizR wrote: This has a few interesting corollaries, ISTM. 1. It hints that there might be a way to distinguish the pilot wave interpretation of QM from the rest, which could be handy I doubt that since Bohmian QM is just another way of writing Schrodinger's equation.

Re: Pluto bounces back!

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 12:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: What is a crime is often defined by religion That makes sense in primitive society, but religion might have nothing to say on the terrestrial plane. You confuse religion, and the institutionalization of religion. and it often includes

RE: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] No, its not a psychological thing. A psychological thing would be avoidence, as in ignoring what people say and do and just going with a feeling. This is years of observing the actions of your side.

Re: American Intelligence -- Thinking about Thinking

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 2:07 AM, Kim Jones wrote: Muslims accept Christians and Jews as 'people of the book'. They consider that Islam is merely the latest edition of the same book or religion. Not merely the latest but THE LAST. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: American Intelligence -- Thinking about Thinking

2014-06-25 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 6:55 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 2:07 AM, Kim Jones wrote: Muslims accept Christians and Jews as 'people of the book'. They consider that Islam is merely the latest edition of the same book or religion. Not merely the latest but THE LAST.

Re: Pluto bounces back!

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 4:34 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Brent, Jesus people don't become murdering martyr's anymore, Well there are those who murder abortion doctors. But lucrative criminal acts includes a lot more than murderous martydom. The Catholic Church has probably condemned more

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 7:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Some claim that my problem in Brussels was that in the introduction to Conscience Mécanisme I make clear what I mean by agnostic (~[] g) and atheists ([]~g). Natural language confuse easily ~[] and []~. Modal logic is useful if only to explain that

Re: Solar power's bright future

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/20/2014 6:10 PM, LizR wrote: That raptor rocket surely doesn't have /much/ higher delta V than, say, the Saturn 5? No chemical reaction is going to be that much more efficient, no matter that you turn it into a superheated flying bomb. Surely for human exploration beyond the Moon you

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 12/19/2013 1:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 2:36 PM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com mailto:jami...@gmail.com wrote: Here is my tuppence about the *hoax-game* of the *fantasy-play* 'teleportation': It is what I said, never substantiated and placed into

Re: Solar power's bright future

2014-06-25 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
From: meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Solar power's bright future On 6/20/2014 6:10 PM, LizR wrote: That raptor rocket surely doesn't have much higher delta V than,

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 11:46 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Richard, that's a one to many situation you have dug up. The audits by IRS against conservatives are deliberate and politically motivated. Your side is out to defeat it's political

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread David Nyman
On 25 June 2014 17:26, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: The problem is that, in the final analysis - and it is precisely the *final* analysis that we are considering here - such theories need take no account of any intermediate level of explanation in order to qualify as theories of

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-06-25 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 12:29 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/19/2013 1:03 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 2:36 PM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Here is my tuppence about the *hoax-game* of the *fantasy-play* 'teleportation': It is what I said, never

Re: Germany sets record for peak energy use - 50 percent comes from solar (Update)

2014-06-25 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
From: John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 8:52 AM Subject: Re: Germany sets record for peak energy use - 50 percent comes from solar (Update) On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 6:13 PM, LizR

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
For me, your analogy (which has been heard before of course) is simple to satisfy. The Peoples Republic of China, upon hearing John Clark's philosophical challenge, and diverts its lunar rover to the planet Uranus. All this to the chagrin of Mr. Clark, who yell's Not fair! Never the less, the

Re: Tegmark's new book

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
I've just finished reading that review. I didn't find the arguments as convincing as I hoped I might, especially since I'm sure I've already read and liked a book by Butterfield (on time I think?) so I was looking forward to some thought-provoking arguments and maybe something that would make the

Re: Pluto bounces back!

2014-06-25 Thread John Mikes
Didn't the thugs call themselves Jesus' people who killed the abortion doctor? was he not a martyr? JM On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 7:34 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Brent, Jesus people don't become murdering martyr's anymore, so let's focus where the

Re: Is the supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy really a wormhole?

2014-06-25 Thread John Mikes
Inventions of ingenious people saving their face in face of failed theories they subscribed to earlier. That includes the after-BigBang-Inflation as well. Nobody measured it, especially not in the units the Big Bang follies are represented in by the cosmo-physicists. 94% of all attractive 'mass'

Re: Solar power's bright future [ may be brighter thanks to us aping the quantum trickery of certain algae (cryptophytes specifically)]

2014-06-25 Thread John Mikes
Thanks, Russell, you still teach physics. I fell into bad styling when wanted to refer to phenomena BEYOND it, just as there was EM before it was detected, there was electricity and gravity before the words were invented and so on. What may be in the future is not anticipateable if we have no

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 11:27 AM, David Nyman wrote: It exasperates me when people adduce phenomena such as temperature or life as analogous to consciousness, without noticing that the analogy is, at best, a half-truth. It is true - or at least plausible - that there might be some discoverable set of

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Now I know Bruno will say this is just choosing the wrong level, but the point is that it's not just the level which is sufficient for interaction with neurons, but also the level which captures interaction with 'external' or

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 09:01, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 11:27 AM, David Nyman wrote: It exasperates me when people adduce phenomena such as temperature or life as analogous to consciousness, without noticing that the analogy is, at best, a half-truth. It is true - or at

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread Kim Jones
On 24 Jun Kim wrote: Who (or what) creates the systems? How can systems not be a people problem? Systems ARE people interacting in many ways and on many different levels. I've never met a system involving people that self-created. People ARE the problem! They invent the systems. Go

Re: American Intelligence -- Thinking about Thinking

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 25 June 2014 21:07, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: If you look at a plate and see two apples on it then the testing apparatus is your eye. Anyone else with properly functioning eyes would see the same to Apples. When people tell you about their experience you are not using their

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 10:09, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: On 24 Jun Kim wrote: Who (or what) creates the systems? How can systems not be a people problem? Systems ARE people interacting in many ways and on many different levels. I've never met a system involving people that

Re: A Mathematical Proof That The Universe Could Have Formed Spontaneously From Nothing

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 04:26, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/24/2014 7:34 PM, LizR wrote: This has a few interesting corollaries, ISTM. 1. It hints that there might be a way to distinguish the pilot wave interpretation of QM from the rest, which could be handy I doubt that since

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 07:05, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Or to quote, Richard Dawkins, Yes, I can imagine there are god-like intelligences in the universe. Atheist, Agnostic, Believer? Sure. All three. (Or in other universes, or branches of the level 1 or

RE: A Mathematical Proof That The Universe Could Have Formed Spontaneously From Nothing

2014-06-25 Thread John Ross
We do not need a mathematical proof that before there was anything anywhere, there was nothing. According to my model of our Universe, everything in our Universe is made from an equal number of plus and minus tronnies. The only property of tronnies is their charge of plus or minus e.

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 3:07 PM, David Nyman wrote: On 25 June 2014 22:01, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Note that I have not argued that the ability to 3p engineer consciousness will do anything to explain or diminish 1p conscious experience. I just predict

Re: A Mathematical Proof That The Universe Could Have Formed Spontaneously From Nothing

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 3:38 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 04:19, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: A very interesting paper filling out a conjecture by Scott Aaronson and similar to Bruce's analysis but with more detail. It doesn't so much solve the

Re: A Mathematical Proof That The Universe Could Have Formed Spontaneously From Nothing

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 11:01, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 3:38 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 04:19, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: A very interesting paper filling out a conjecture by Scott Aaronson and similar to Bruce's analysis but with more detail. It doesn't

RE: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread John Ross
Gravity is produced by neutrino photons produce by Black Holes with the destruction of protons and anti-protons. The neutrino entron in the neutrino photons that reach the shell will be absorbed by an electron or a positron. If it is absorbed by an electron it will increase the mass of the

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 10:58, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 3:07 PM, David Nyman wrote: On 25 June 2014 22:01, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Note that I have not argued that the ability to 3p engineer consciousness will do anything to explain or diminish 1p conscious

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 11:07, John Ross jr...@trexenterprises.com wrote: Your guess is as good as mine as to what’s beyond the shell. The shell may be very thick and many universes could be combined in the shell like bubbles in a Pepsi. Well, I'm afraid that proves it isn't the Real Thing! :-)

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread Kim Jones
On 26 Jun 2014, Kim wrote: Traffic control systems are still as dumb as they were 60 maybe 70 years ago and it is easy to see that the evolution of a better traffic control system is instantly and totally shackled by the existence of the layout and the design of the very roads the

RE: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread John Ross
Ground state electrons and positrons have no energy. They are self propelled by their own internal Coulomb forces at 2.19 X 106 m/s. That is why electrons don’t lose energy and fall into atomic nuclei. They have no energy to lose. Electrons can capture entrons to become an energetic

RE: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread John Ross
Particles are accelerated in accelerators by adding entrons to the particles. This changes the particles and gives the particles additional mass. So this could explain time issues. Much of my theory is supported by equations and derivations. John R. From:

Re: Solar power's bright future [ may be brighter thanks to us aping the quantum trickery of certain algae (cryptophytes specifically)]

2014-06-25 Thread Russell Standish
Hi John, Actually, I think you fell into a trap specifying the EM spectrum (which is well characterised, and has no unknowns about it), rather than something vague like energy or radiation. It is entirely possible that life has evolved a way of making use of some unknown source of radiant energy

RE: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread John Ross
The shell is expanding along with the rest of our Universe. It is being inflated with photon pressure. The cosmic background radiation is the same everywhere in our Universe, the same as if our Universe was a giant integrating sphere. The relevance is that muons could be traveling much

RE: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread John Ross
What is you answer as to what is beyond our Universe if it is not a shell? I just answered your second question. JR From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of LizR Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 4:11 PM To:

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
Perchance! I have just observed, on occasions, your points of view and it adds up to the progressive mind set, more or less. Feel free at any time to define your own positions that diverge from all that. As for what goes on in the world, in mine own land yet, this kind of thing, brought forth

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 7:47 PM, John Ross jr...@trexenterprises.com wrote: What is you answer as to what is beyond our Universe if it is not a shell? The universe is not a shell. Rather it is a toroid that turns in on itself such that radiation can go around the entire universe but not escape

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 11:47, John Ross jr...@trexenterprises.com wrote: What is you answer as to what is beyond our Universe if it is not a shell? That was a joke, the Coke vs Pepsi advertising campaign which used the phrase It's the real thing I just answered your second question. Would you

Re: American Intelligence -- Thinking about Thinking

2014-06-25 Thread Kim Jones
On 26 Jun 2014, at 8:09 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: In science, proof is often no more than lack of imagination. We are sure that B must have been caused by A simply because we cannot imagine any other cause. So many errors in science have arisen just from this obvious limitation.

Re: American Intelligence -- Thinking about Thinking

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
I flatter myself that I look good in green but I'm not so sure about yellow. (Also, I can't remember what all these hats are...well, yellow is seeking benefit, and green is creative ... right?) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group.

Re: American Intelligence -- Thinking about Thinking

2014-06-25 Thread Kim Jones
On 26 Jun 2014, at 10:36 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: I flatter myself that I look good in green but I'm not so sure about yellow. (Also, I can't remember what all these hats are...well, yellow is seeking benefit, and green is creative ... right?) White: the facts. What we know.

Re: Germany sets record for peak energy use - 50 percent comes from solar (Update)

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 03:52, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 6:13 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: the cost of solar panels is still in free fall Even if the cost of solar cells fell to zero it wouldn't be enough to replace fossil fuels even at today's levels

Re: Pluto bounces back!

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organian On 25 June 2014 23:29, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: I always thought the Organian (was that the blond kid in the toga?) looked like he should've been serving crudites' in a fine restaurant. It wasn't the Gorn,

Re: Pluto bounces back!

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 04:58, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 4:34 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Brent, Jesus people don't become murdering martyr's anymore, Well there are those who murder abortion doctors. But lucrative criminal acts includes a lot more than

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
From: spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 4:56 PM Subject: Re: American Intelligence Perchance! I have just observed, on occasions, your points of view and it

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 7:11 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 7:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Some claim that my problem in Brussels was that in the introduction to Conscience Mécanisme I make clear what I mean by agnostic (~[] g) and atheists ([]~g). Natural language

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
I think the term has broadened out since it was first introduced. Nowadays it appears to mean believing there are no supernatural forces of any kind. It also seems to (often implicitly) mean believing that the primitive materialist view of the physical world is correct, too. -- You received this

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 13:19, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: -- Come on man there are more hues than black and white in the spectrum. Indeed, black and white aren't even in the spectrum! (Sorry, I'll get my coat of many

Re: American Intelligence

2014-06-25 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 6:33 PM Subject: Re: American Intelligence On 26 June 2014 13:19, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote:

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 05:29, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: So in effect the non-cloning theorem prevents saying yes to the doctor if you insist on there being no discontinuity in your consciousness. The Moscow man and the Washington man will be in different quantum states even before they

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 09:08, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Now I know Bruno will say this is just choosing the wrong level, but the point is that it's not just the level which is sufficient for interaction with neurons, but also the level which

Re: Solar power's bright future

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
I agree with Chris, even though on many occasions (and indeed on this very forum) I've dismissed the Apollo missions as a huge, wasteful and dangerous publicity stunt with limited scientific worth. Hooray! We're going to Mars! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread Kim Jones
Kim Jones B. Mus. GDTL Email: kimjo...@ozemail.com.au kmjco...@icloud.com Mobile: 0450 963 719 Phone: 02 93894239 Web: http://www.eportfolio.kmjcommp.com Never let your schooling get in the way of your education - Mark Twain On 26 Jun 2014, at 5:05 am, spudboy100 via

Re: Is Consciousness Computable?

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 03:49, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 29 May 2014, at 00:17, LizR wrote: On 28 May 2014 19:46, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 5/28/2014 12:35 AM, LizR wrote: On 28 May 2014 16:20, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: I think the more crucial step is

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread Kim Jones
On 26 Jun 2014, at 5:05 am, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Keaton always said, I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of him. Well I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is Keyser Soze. When Richard Dawkins briefly had me convinced

Re: Selecting your future branch

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 03:06, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: And that one guy is Mr. You. Yes, it's perfectly true that other guys have seen different sequences and those other guys are not each other, but they are all Mr. You because they all remember being the Helsinki Man even if

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 13:56, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: On 26 Jun 2014, at 5:05 am, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Keaton always said, I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of him. Well I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me

Re: Disproving physicalism from COMP

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 25 June 2014 16:52, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/24/2014 2:29 AM, LizR wrote: On 24 June 2014 17:04, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: If primitive matter existed, and if it has a role for consciousness, or for consciousness instantiation, step 8, and the argument

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread Kim Jones
On 26 Jun 2014, at 11:59 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 June 2014 13:56, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: On 26 Jun 2014, at 5:05 am, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Keaton always said, I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 3:31 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: I think the term has broadened out since it was first introduced. Nowadays it appears to mean believing there are no supernatural forces of any kind. It also seems to (often implicitly) mean believing that the primitive

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread Kim Jones
On 26 Jun 2014, at 11:59 am, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 June 2014 13:56, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: When Richard Dawkins briefly had me convinced that I was atheist I ordered from his foundation one of those lovely black T-shirts with the red letter 'A' on the

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 14:13, Kim Jones kimjo...@ozemail.com.au wrote: Hey! Let's have a T-shirt slogan competition! I'll kick off with: I used to be an Atheist but now I'm a Neoplatonist Digital Mechanist Neutral Monist. What are you? I want that T-shirt! How about Ceci n'est pas un(e) T-shirt

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
Or maybe This space reserved for a Theory of Everything -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post

Re: Tyson is not atheist (was Re: So, a new kind of non-boolean, non-digital, computer architecture

2014-06-25 Thread Kim Jones
On 26 Jun 2014, at 12:17 pm, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Or maybe This space reserved for a Theory of Everything Computationalists don't die - they just go to Moscow or Washington. K -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List

Re: A Mathematical Proof That The Universe Could Have Formed Spontaneously From Nothing

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 4:05 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 11:01, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 3:38 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 04:19, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: A very interesting paper

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 4:08 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 10:58, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 3:07 PM, David Nyman wrote: On 25 June 2014 22:01, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Note that I have not

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 09:08, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Now I know Bruno will say this is just choosing the wrong level, but the point is that it's not just the

Re: Disproving physicalism from COMP

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 7:03 PM, LizR wrote: On 25 June 2014 16:52, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/24/2014 2:29 AM, LizR wrote: On 24 June 2014 17:04, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: If primitive matter

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread Kim Jones
On 26 Jun 2014, at 8:07 am, David Nyman da...@davidnyman.com wrote: The principal assumption then is that all phenomena whatsoever can be reduced without loss to some primitive (i.e. assumptively irreducible) basis, in which process the higher levels are effectively eliminated.

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-06-25 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 4:08 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Now I know Bruno will say this is just choosing the wrong level, but the point is that it's not just the level which is sufficient for interaction with neurons, but also the

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 15:25, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 09:08, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Now I know Bruno will say this is just choosing the wrong level, but the point is that

Re: TRONNIES - SPACE

2014-06-25 Thread LizR
On 26 June 2014 15:05, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 4:08 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 10:58, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 3:07 PM, David Nyman wrote: On 25 June 2014 22:01, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Note that I have not argued

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2014-06-25 Thread meekerdb
On 6/25/2014 8:38 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 15:25, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 6:47 PM, LizR wrote: On 26 June 2014 09:08, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 6/25/2014 11:48 AM, Jason

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