Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Manuel Lemos
Hello, On 08/04/2002 03:35 PM, Maxim Maletsky wrote: > I feel like you want Zend to develop things for free like they develop > Zend Engine. I think it is right for them selling Zend Encoder and IDE. > Companies still trust these products more than the free packages you > mentioned. Do not forget

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Manuel, I feel like you want Zend to develop things for free like they develop Zend Engine. I think it is right for them selling Zend Encoder and IDE. Companies still trust these products more than the free packages you mentioned. Do not forget, PHP is running on Zend. There is really a lot of

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Manuel Lemos
Hello, On 08/04/2002 11:55 AM, Zeev Suraski wrote: > Just a couple of facts: > > 1. If Zend did not exist, PHP 4 wouldn't have existed, at least not in > any way similar to what PHP 4 looks like today. FYI, with PHP 3, it was > impossible to write accelerators, encoders, debuggers and whatno

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Manuel Lemos
On 08/04/2002 04:08 AM, Justin French wrote: > on 04/08/02 3:55 PM, Acer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > >>so fine zend is ripping people off, what's the point? well it has been >>damaging to php is my point. no one knows what php is and no one will pay >>you to do php. why blame zend on this?

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Manuel Lemos
Hello, On 08/03/2002 10:49 PM, Justin French wrote: >>Don't get me wrong rasmus, I don't have any problems with you. It's just >>fishy when some guy in the UK was able to put together a php accelerator for >>free and a php encoder for $0.50 a pop while zend is charging several >>thousands. You

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Manuel Lemos
Hello, On 08/03/2002 10:44 PM, Justin French wrote: >>>The people for Zend have to eat to live. >> >>And don't we all? That is the main problem. If we need to pay USD $3,000 >>to be able to compile our PHP programs, doesn't that make not viable for >>most of us to sell our PHP programs as closed

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Maxim Maletsky
> To: Zeev Suraski > Cc: Justin French; php > Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > > Okay like I said before, Zeev is agreeing with me that php is zend and > zend > is php. However, if zend dropped off the face of the planet, there would > be > programmers to

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Manuel Lemos
Hello, On 08/03/2002 03:05 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > Because it is a silly thread and I shouldn't be replying at all. Others > in the group either have more sense or have given up on answering > php-general questions. I believe the point is that you always be passive when it comes to initiat

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Manuel Lemos
Hello, On 08/03/2002 01:58 PM, Acer wrote: > There is a free php accelerator so I don't know why you would pay for one. > www.php-accelerator.co.uk > > The same guy (Nick) has also just made an encoder. It is in beta testing > right now and there's no windows version yet but that should be comi

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Maxim Maletsky
> No we shouldn't criticise a commerical company because I never hear bad > things about Microsoft on here. Read archives :-) Maxim Maletsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Zeev Suraski
At 18:12 04/08/2002, Acer wrote: >Okay like I said before, Zeev is agreeing with me that php is zend and zend >is php. However, if zend dropped off the face of the planet, there would be >programmers to fill that void. No, I am not. Zend was a key figure in the development of PHP, without whic

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Acer
EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 4, 2002 10:55 AM To: Acer Cc: Justin French; php Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding Just a couple of facts: 1. If Zend did not exist, PHP 4 wouldn't have existed, at least not in any way similar to what PHP 4 looks like today. FYI, with PHP 3, it was

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Zeev Suraski
Just a couple of facts: 1. If Zend did not exist, PHP 4 wouldn't have existed, at least not in any way similar to what PHP 4 looks like today. FYI, with PHP 3, it was impossible to write accelerators, encoders, debuggers and whatnot. 2. Zend published its value-add software *2 years* ago, w

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Justin French
on 04/08/02 11:45 PM, Acer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Okay let me clarify, I think that if Zend did not exist then php would be in > a better position. Why? Because something like php-encoder would of filled > the void sooner and everyone would of benefited from encoders and > accelerators.

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Acer
No we shouldn't criticise a commerical company because I never hear bad things about Microsoft on here. -Original Message- From: David Freeman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 4, 2002 3:54 AM To: 'Acer'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP co

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Acer
evelopers. I feel better now. And thanks for reading my mind, there's like 3 of you on this list. Do you do partys? -Original Message- From: Justin French [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 4, 2002 3:09 AM To: Acer; php Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding on 04/08/02 3

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Acer
ed. This is why I don't think encoders are evil (be it zend or php-encoder) and just because you encode your project doesn't mean people won't share their knowledge. -Original Message- From: Jason Wong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 4, 2002 5:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECT

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Duncan Hill
On Sun, 4 Aug 2002, Acer wrote: > Acknowledging the problem is the first step in recovery. *plonk* -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread @ Edwin
anks to the PHP community! Thanks to those who made the manual! Thanks to the (over) 600 as well! Thanks to the mailing lists, etc! - E - $B85$N%a%C%;!<%8(B ----- $BAw?.(B : RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding I know I shouldn't do more to keep this going but I'll make this one, and onl

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread Jason Wong
On Sunday 04 August 2002 15:53, David Freeman wrote: > > Now that Nick has released the free > > accelerator and an inexpensive ($0.50 per shot) encoder it > > might change but I don't know if it's too late. > > Great for Nick (whoever he is). $0.50 isn't necessarily cheap though. > I have on

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-04 Thread David Freeman
I know I shouldn't do more to keep this going but I'll make this one, and only, post. > this all started when rasmus had a problem with the "click" > in my original post >From what I read, Rasmus made a correction to your opinion. You are entitled to your opinion, but perhaps you should lear

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Justin French
on 04/08/02 3:55 PM, Acer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > so fine zend is ripping people off, what's the point? well it has been > damaging to php is my point. no one knows what php is and no one will pay > you to do php. why blame zend on this? no matter what rasmus says that 600 > people have

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
Acknowledging the problem is the first step in recovery. -Original Message- From: Michael Geier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 4, 2002 2:22 AM To: Acer Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding Acer, Did you ever consider the fact that ASP, JSP and CF

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Michael Geier
; > That topic isn't important so back to normal and I'll ask a php > question. > What's the difference between = and ==? I'm too lazy to read the > manual. > > > -Original Message- > From: Maxim Maletsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > S

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
released the free accelerator and an inexpensive ($0.50 per shot) encoder it might change but I don't know if it's too late. -Original Message- From: Maxim Maletsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 4, 2002 1:26 AM To: 'Acer'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [P

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Will we get hurt? Ufff whata pain Maxim Maletsky > -Original Message- > From: Acer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 7:06 AM > To: César Aracena; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > > the truth hurt

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding I am pretty new to PHP, but not to computing since I've been working with them for about 15 years and I would like to say something about this idiotic spamming subject. It's your problem if you get short on cash for buying something you could have done b

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread César Aracena
hey... that was your own decision. Good luck in your life you poor, poor soul. > -Original Message- > From: Acer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 1:20 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Justin French'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; php- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] &

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
uy, you guys are the best! keep up the good work!" -Original Message- From: Maxim Maletsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 4, 2002 12:22 AM To: 'Acer'; 'Justin French'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding A

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Maxim Maletsky
]; 'Justin French'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; php- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > > if you can't debate the issues then get out. > > > -Original Message- > From: Maxim Maletsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Au

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
if you can't debate the issues then get out. -Original Message- From: Maxim Maletsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 4, 2002 12:00 AM To: 'Acer'; 'Justin French'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding Acer, Gi

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
: August 3, 2002 11:18 PM To: Acer Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding 1. You complain about Zend charging for a product when someone else has created an equivalent open source product. 2. You support ColdFusion and ASP when someone else has created an equivalent o

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Maxim Maletsky
t; To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > > > on 03/08/02 11:57 PM, Manuel Lemos ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > >> The people for Zend have to eat to live. > > > > And don't we all? That is the main problem. If we n

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
you guys are the ones in denial and can't stand that someone is disagreeing with you. -Original Message- From: Justin French [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 3, 2002 10:03 PM To: Acer; Danny Shepherd Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding on 04/08

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
nd will fold up shop and bye bye zend. -Original Message- From: Justin French [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 3, 2002 9:50 PM To: Acer; Rasmus Lerdorf Cc: Dennis Moore; Andrey Hristov; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding on 04/08/02 3:30 AM, Acer ([EMAIL PR

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
okay you say zend gave me php and rasmus says 600 people gave me php. you guys need to get your story right. -Original Message- From: Justin French [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 3, 2002 9:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Chris Shiflett
1. You complain about Zend charging for a product when someone else has created an equivalent open source product. 2. You support ColdFusion and ASP when someone else has created an equivalent open source product. The point is that you need better logic in your arguments before you will receiv

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Justin French
on 04/08/02 8:01 AM, Acer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Sorry for bothering you, I didn't think I would hit a nerve. Didn't think you'd hit a nerve? You're complaining profusely about the price charged for a commercial product, and bagging the crap out of the developers, contributors and people

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Maxim Maletsky
gt; To: Maxim Maletsky; 'Rasmus Lerdorf' > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > > Okay fine whatever. Let's just continue sticking our heads in the sand > and > pretend php developers isn't last on the list of jobs available compa

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Justin French
on 04/08/02 3:30 AM, Acer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Don't get me wrong rasmus, I don't have any problems with you. It's just > fishy when some guy in the UK was able to put together a php accelerator for > free and a php encoder for $0.50 a pop while zend is charging several > thousands. You

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
difference between = and ==? I'm too lazy to read the manual. -Original Message- From: Maxim Maletsky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 3, 2002 7:42 PM To: 'Acer'; 'Rasmus Lerdorf' Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding Acer, what the

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Justin French
on 03/08/02 11:57 PM, Manuel Lemos ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: >> The people for Zend have to eat to live. > > And don't we all? That is the main problem. If we need to pay USD $3,000 > to be able to compile our PHP programs, doesn't that make not viable for > most of us to sell our PHP programs

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Maxim Maletsky
php-general question or answer one. Deal? Sincerely, Maxim Maletsky PHP Beginner www.phpbeginner.com > -Original Message- > From: Acer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 12:01 AM > To: Rasmus Lerdorf > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [PHP]

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Maxim Maletsky
> Call me a cynic but to maintain your status as php god you have to > contribute to the list so you can sign a book deal. Cynic? Rather paranoid > Scott wrote: > > For what it's worth, I just left a 50,000 employee company that would > not > > let me use PHP in production until I showed them th

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
Sorry for bothering you, I didn't think I would hit a nerve. -Original Message- From: Danny Shepherd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 3, 2002 5:59 PM Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding So, go write JSP for someone then and stop buggi

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
#x27;t have made php what it is now so you can't have it both ways. -Original Message- From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 3, 2002 2:06 PM To: Acer Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding Because it is a silly thread and I shouldn&#x

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
s are the ones building > php so something is not right. > > > > -Original Message- > From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: August 3, 2002 1:04 PM > To: Acer > Cc: Dennis Moore; Andrey Hristov; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Danny Shepherd
So, go write JSP for someone then and stop bugging us. - Original Message - From: "Acer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 10:48 PM Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP codi

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
Scott wrote: > You're kidding, right? When was the last time you saw one the creator of > ASP on a mailing list personally answering code questions? Call me a cynic but to maintain your status as php god you have to contribute to the list so you can sign a book deal. Scott wrote: > For what it'

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Jason Wong
On Sunday 04 August 2002 04:38, Bob Lockie wrote: > >My view on encoders is that they are unnecessary and rather evil. I would > >never ever purchase a php-based application that did not come with the php > >source code. If you want to restrict your code somehow, do it through a > >license. Peo

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Bob Lockie
>My view on encoders is that they are unnecessary and rather evil. I would >never ever purchase a php-based application that did not come with the php >source code. If you want to restrict your code somehow, do it through a >license. People who choose to violate that license are the same peopl

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Maxim Maletsky
Well said, Rasmus. - Maxim Maletsky -Original Message- From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 8:06 PM To: Acer Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding Because it is a silly thread and I shouldn't be replying a

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Rasmus Lerdorf
I have seen posted to this list in a very long time." > > > -Original Message- > From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: August 3, 2002 1:04 PM > To: Acer > Cc: Dennis Moore; Andrey Hristov; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP cod

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Rasmus Lerdorf
e the ones building > php so something is not right. > > > > -Original Message- > From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: August 3, 2002 1:04 PM > To: Acer > Cc: Dennis Moore; Andrey Hristov; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
t: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > You'll never hear anything from the core php group since they are a tight > click so it's business as usual. That's probably the most uninformed statement I have seen posted to this list in a very long time. -Rasmus -- PHP General M

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Scott
On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, Acer wrote: > You'll never hear anything from the core php group since they are a tight > click so it's business as usual. You're kidding, right? When was the last time you saw one the creator of ASP on a mailing list personally answering code questions? For what it's wor

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
-Original Message- From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 3, 2002 1:04 PM To: Acer Cc: Dennis Moore; Andrey Hristov; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > You'll never hear anything from the core php group since they are a tight >

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Rasmus Lerdorf
> You'll never hear anything from the core php group since they are a tight > click so it's business as usual. That's probably the most uninformed statement I have seen posted to this list in a very long time. -Rasmus -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: ht

RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Acer
27;s too late. -Original Message- From: Dennis Moore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: August 3, 2002 10:58 AM To: Andrey Hristov; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding Everyone understands that Zend has to eat, but so do most of us small developers. I have no p

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Dennis Moore
IL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding > > >>>So... > > >>>Is this equivalent to Zend Encoder? > > >> > > >>Not exactly, but in some aspects it is/will be better like the ability

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Manuel Lemos
Hello, On 08/03/2002 09:16 AM, Andrey Hristov wrote: >So... >Is this equivalent to Zend Encoder? Not exactly, but in some aspects it is/will be better like the ability to generate executable standalone PHP programs that you can distribute independently. There is also the

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-03 Thread Andrey Hristov
> >>>So... > >>>Is this equivalent to Zend Encoder? > >> > >>Not exactly, but in some aspects it is/will be better like the ability > >>to generate executable standalone PHP programs that you can distribute > >>independently. There is also the question of the price that for Zend > >>Encoder is rid

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-02 Thread Manuel Lemos
Hello, On 08/02/2002 02:39 PM, Randy Johnson wrote: > Does the bcompiler below improve performance? > > make scripts run faster? Definetly YES, because you do not need compile the scripts before each execution as they are already executed. Think about the speedup more or less like you were

Re: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding

2002-08-02 Thread Randy Johnson
Does the bcompiler below improve performance? make scripts run faster? anybody have a testimonials on it's use?? Thanks, Randy - Original Message - From: "Manuel Lemos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 9:14 PM Subject: [PHP] Re: Protect P