Re: [Talk-si] suing a user for insult and threats

[Igor Brejc]

To be honest, I would just report this to OSM (even multiple times, if
necessary) and ignore it. There are too many idiots on the internet to sue
them all and also I'm not sure how you would be able to find his real name
and address.

Kind regards,
Igor

On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 7:26 PM martianfreeloader <
martianfreeloa...@posteo.net> wrote:

> I have just been insulted and threatened by the account.
>
> I would like to sue the owner of that account for compensation, but I am
> citizen and resident of Germany and I don't read Slovene, nor do I know
> anything about the legal system there.
>
> The owner of the account seems to be resident of Slovenia, according to
> their heatmap: https://yosmhm.neis-one.org/?4KK
> (could be wrong; like my own heatmap would wrongly suggest that I am
> Slovene)
>
> Does any one know how to best go about suing them in Slovenia?
>
>
> For context:
> My only interaction with the account was my comment on
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/128392452
>
> They replied to me in a private message which contained three threats:
>
> "DO NOT FUCKING COMMENT ON ANY OF MY FUCKING EDITS"
> "DON’T YOU FUCKING DARE MESSAGE ME"
> "KILL YOURSELF"
>
> and a number of insults:
> "Fuck you bitch"
> "YOU IDIOTIC JACKASS"
> "YOU LITTLE SHIT"
> "GO FUCK YOURSELF"
>
>
> On 04/11/2022 21:00, martianfreeloader wrote:
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> > On 04/11/2022 16:47, Igor Brejc wrote:
> >> Reported him/her, adding a couple of most egregious edits/comments. It
> >> takes only a couple of minutes.
> >>
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Igor
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 11:28 PM martianfreeloader
> >> mailto:martianfreeloa...@posteo.net>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Anyone who can spare a half hour, please report 4KK as soon as
> >> possible!
> >>
> >> As the account is not only insulting people but actively
> >> destroying the
> >> map, it seems that time is of the essence.
> >>
> >> Apparently, the account also engages in edit wars:
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/342087384/history
> >> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/342087384/history>
> >>
> >> I have little capacity for OSM at the moment, sorry; otherwise I'd
> >> do it
> >> myself.
> >>
> >> Thanks to Damjan Gerl for bringing this up and to everyone who
> >> contributed to the discussion so far!
> >> m
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 03/11/2022 19:16, pitastr...@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:pitastr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>  > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Report_user
> >> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Report_user>
> >>  >
> >>  > We can report to data, “ат”openstreetmap.org
> >> <http://openstreetmap.org> for vandalism and report
> >>  > the user in a separate section. We should take all the below
> >> evidence
> >>  > and forward it to the mentioned email. *
> >>  > *
> >>  >
> >>  > On 03/11/2022 19:11, Igor Brejc wrote:
> >>  >> What's the procedure here? How do we report this?
> >>  >>
> >>  >> On Thu, Nov 3, 2022, 17:59 martianfreeloader
> >>  >>  >> <mailto:martianfreeloa...@posteo.net>> wrote:
> >>  >>
> >>  >> Another inappropriate changeset comment from just yesterday:
> >>  >>
> >>  >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/128392452
> >> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/128392452>
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>  >> On 03/11/2022 17:17, Igor Brejc wrote:
> >>  >> > Hi,
> >>  >> >
> >>  >> > Even if nothing else, he should be reported for that
> >> insulting
> >>  >> comment
> >>  >> > on https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577
> >> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577>
> >>  >> > <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577
> >> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577>>, this isn't
> >>  >> just
> >>  >> > vandalism, bu

Re: [Talk-si] "izboljšave" uporabnika 4KK

[Igor Brejc]

Reported him/her, adding a couple of most egregious edits/comments. It
takes only a couple of minutes.

Kind regards,
Igor

On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 11:28 PM martianfreeloader <
martianfreeloa...@posteo.net> wrote:

> Anyone who can spare a half hour, please report 4KK as soon as possible!
>
> As the account is not only insulting people but actively destroying the
> map, it seems that time is of the essence.
>
> Apparently, the account also engages in edit wars:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/342087384/history
>
> I have little capacity for OSM at the moment, sorry; otherwise I'd do it
> myself.
>
> Thanks to Damjan Gerl for bringing this up and to everyone who
> contributed to the discussion so far!
> m
>
>
>
> On 03/11/2022 19:16, pitastr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Report_user
> >
> > We can report to data, “ат”openstreetmap.org for vandalism and report
> > the user in a separate section. We should take all the below evidence
> > and forward it to the mentioned email. *
> > *
> >
> > On 03/11/2022 19:11, Igor Brejc wrote:
> >> What's the procedure here? How do we report this?
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 3, 2022, 17:59 martianfreeloader
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Another inappropriate changeset comment from just yesterday:
> >>
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/128392452
> >>
> >>
> >> On 03/11/2022 17:17, Igor Brejc wrote:
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > Even if nothing else, he should be reported for that insulting
> >> comment
> >> > on https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577
> >> > <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577>, this isn't
> >> just
> >> > vandalism, but pure abusive behavior.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> > Igor
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 4:47 PM martianfreeloader
> >> >  >> <mailto:martianfreeloa...@posteo.net>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > I think the account 4KK should be reported for vandalism.
> >> >
> >> > TLDR:
> >> > - 4KK destroys the map.
> >> > - When confronted with their behaviour, they either don't
> >> reply at all
> >> > or in an insulting way.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Long version:
> >> >
> >> > History of 4KK:
> >> > - The account was created in 2017.
> >> > - Strong mapping activity only started in Feb 2022
> >> >
> >> > A list of the changesets that have been discussed by other
> >> users:
> >> >
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=6270480
> >> >
> >>  <
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=6270480>
> >> >
> >> > Comments made by other mappers to 4KK's changesets:
> >> > - 11 changesets of 4KK are discussed by other users (since
> >> April 2022)
> >> > - All 11 changesets have been critized by other mappers as
> >> seriously
> >> > and
> >> > clearly wrong. (with mixed degrees politeness, but nothing
> >> off the
> >> > spectrum of normal OSM demeanor)
> >> >
> >> > 4KK's reaction:
> >> > - To 9 of these comments, 4KK did not reply at all.
> >> > - To 1 changeset, 4KK replied in a polite but
> >> nonconstructive way:
> >> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/126707625
> >> > <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/126707625>
> >> > - To 1 changeset, 4KK replied with an insult and nothing
> >> substantial:
> >> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577
> >> > <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577>
> >> > (I think that this incident alone would already justify
> >> deletion of the
> >> > account)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I did not check the actual mapping content of these
> >> changesets, so I
> >> > can't tell whether all the other mappers were always right
>

Re: [Talk-si] "izboljšave" uporabnika 4KK

[Igor Brejc]

What's the procedure here? How do we report this?

On Thu, Nov 3, 2022, 17:59 martianfreeloader 
wrote:

> Another inappropriate changeset comment from just yesterday:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/128392452
>
>
> On 03/11/2022 17:17, Igor Brejc wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Even if nothing else, he should be reported for that insulting comment
> > on https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577
> > <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577>, this isn't just
> > vandalism, but pure abusive behavior.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Igor
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 4:47 PM martianfreeloader
> > mailto:martianfreeloa...@posteo.net>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think the account 4KK should be reported for vandalism.
> >
> > TLDR:
> > - 4KK destroys the map.
> > - When confronted with their behaviour, they either don't reply at
> all
> > or in an insulting way.
> >
> >
> > Long version:
> >
> > History of 4KK:
> > - The account was created in 2017.
> > - Strong mapping activity only started in Feb 2022
> >
> > A list of the changesets that have been discussed by other users:
> > https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=6270480
> > <https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=6270480
> >
> >
> > Comments made by other mappers to 4KK's changesets:
> > - 11 changesets of 4KK are discussed by other users (since April
> 2022)
> > - All 11 changesets have been critized by other mappers as seriously
> > and
> > clearly wrong. (with mixed degrees politeness, but nothing off the
> > spectrum of normal OSM demeanor)
> >
> > 4KK's reaction:
> > - To 9 of these comments, 4KK did not reply at all.
> > - To 1 changeset, 4KK replied in a polite but nonconstructive way:
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/126707625
> > <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/126707625>
> > - To 1 changeset, 4KK replied with an insult and nothing substantial:
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577
> > <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577>
> > (I think that this incident alone would already justify deletion of
> the
> > account)
> >
> >
> > I did not check the actual mapping content of these changesets, so I
> > can't tell whether all the other mappers were always right with their
> > criticism. But given that 4KK has been repeatedly drawn criticism by
> > various users, I assume they are right.
> >
> > Personally, I had one instance myself where I discovered that 4KK
> > mapped
> > a completely fictional motorway (in fact most credits go to
> > scabiosa_trenta), but I didn't make this public at the time because I
> > didn't see the broader picture.
> >
> > Best,
> > m
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 26/10/2022 23:50, Miha Pavšič via Talk-si wrote:
> >  > Živjo,
> >  >
> >  > ja, že prej je to počel (recimo 9 mesecev nazaj). Sam sem najprej
> > opazil relacijo "Razvojna os 3A Ljubljana-Kočevje”, kjer je vrisal
> > “proposed” cesto od razcepa Malence naprej, kot vir pa navedel
> > novico iz leta 2015. Gre samo za neko staro idejo, ki se je takrat
> > pojavila, ampak je vsaj na začetnem delu nerealistična in se o njej
> > sploh ne govori več. Bila je idejna zasnova, sploh ne nekaj
> > načrtovanega, in kot taka zadeva po mojem nima kaj iskati v OSM.
> > Kako pa bi izgledalo, če bi vsak risal neke idejne zasnove?
> >  >
> >  > Skratka, changeset sem pokomentiral (letoss septembra),
> > komentarja z njegove strani ni bilo, pa tudi na moje sporočilo
> > direktno njemu ni odgovoril.
> >  >
> >  > Lep pozdrav,
> >  > Miha
> >  >
> >  >> On 26 Oct 2022, at 17:58, Damjan Gerl  > <mailto:dam...@damjan.net>> wrote:
> >  >>
> >  >> Prosim napiši kakšno opombo na changeset, tako da bo tam "javno"
> > odgovoril (če bo), da bomo vsaj videli kaj/kako odgovori. In lahko
> > dobi tudi več odgovorov drugih osm-erjev.
> >  >>
> >  >> Potem pa se lahko ukrepa in vpraša, da ga iz osm-boarda opomnijo
> > ali začasno blokirajo, če je potrebno.
> >  >>
> >  >> LP,
> &

Re: [Talk-si] "izboljšave" uporabnika 4KK

[Igor Brejc]

Hi,

Even if nothing else, he should be reported for that insulting comment on
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577, this isn't just
vandalism, but pure abusive behavior.

Cheers,
Igor

On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 4:47 PM martianfreeloader <
martianfreeloa...@posteo.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think the account 4KK should be reported for vandalism.
>
> TLDR:
> - 4KK destroys the map.
> - When confronted with their behaviour, they either don't reply at all
> or in an insulting way.
>
>
> Long version:
>
> History of 4KK:
> - The account was created in 2017.
> - Strong mapping activity only started in Feb 2022
>
> A list of the changesets that have been discussed by other users:
> https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=6270480
>
> Comments made by other mappers to 4KK's changesets:
> - 11 changesets of 4KK are discussed by other users (since April 2022)
> - All 11 changesets have been critized by other mappers as seriously and
> clearly wrong. (with mixed degrees politeness, but nothing off the
> spectrum of normal OSM demeanor)
>
> 4KK's reaction:
> - To 9 of these comments, 4KK did not reply at all.
> - To 1 changeset, 4KK replied in a polite but nonconstructive way:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/126707625
> - To 1 changeset, 4KK replied with an insult and nothing substantial:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/121494577
> (I think that this incident alone would already justify deletion of the
> account)
>
>
> I did not check the actual mapping content of these changesets, so I
> can't tell whether all the other mappers were always right with their
> criticism. But given that 4KK has been repeatedly drawn criticism by
> various users, I assume they are right.
>
> Personally, I had one instance myself where I discovered that 4KK mapped
> a completely fictional motorway (in fact most credits go to
> scabiosa_trenta), but I didn't make this public at the time because I
> didn't see the broader picture.
>
> Best,
> m
>
>
>
>
>
> On 26/10/2022 23:50, Miha Pavšič via Talk-si wrote:
> > Živjo,
> >
> > ja, že prej je to počel (recimo 9 mesecev nazaj). Sam sem najprej opazil
> relacijo "Razvojna os 3A Ljubljana-Kočevje”, kjer je vrisal “proposed”
> cesto od razcepa Malence naprej, kot vir pa navedel novico iz leta 2015.
> Gre samo za neko staro idejo, ki se je takrat pojavila, ampak je vsaj na
> začetnem delu nerealistična in se o njej sploh ne govori več. Bila je
> idejna zasnova, sploh ne nekaj načrtovanega, in kot taka zadeva po mojem
> nima kaj iskati v OSM. Kako pa bi izgledalo, če bi vsak risal neke idejne
> zasnove?
> >
> > Skratka, changeset sem pokomentiral (letoss septembra), komentarja z
> njegove strani ni bilo, pa tudi na moje sporočilo direktno njemu ni
> odgovoril.
> >
> > Lep pozdrav,
> > Miha
> >
> >> On 26 Oct 2022, at 17:58, Damjan Gerl  wrote:
> >>
> >> Prosim napiši kakšno opombo na changeset, tako da bo tam "javno"
> odgovoril (če bo), da bomo vsaj videli kaj/kako odgovori. In lahko dobi
> tudi več odgovorov drugih osm-erjev.
> >>
> >> Potem pa se lahko ukrepa in vpraša, da ga iz osm-boarda opomnijo ali
> začasno blokirajo, če je potrebno.
> >>
> >> LP,
> >> Damjan
> >>
> >>  From "Blaž Lorger" blaz.lor...@krs.net
> >> To talk-si@openstreetmap.org
> >> Cc Date Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:35:56 +0200
> >> Subject [Talk-si] "izboljšave" uporabnika 4KK
> >>
> >>
> >> Mogoče ste že opazili da je v zadnjih dneh uporabnik 4KK (
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/4KK) naredil več sprememb na področju
> Slovenije.
> >> Kakšna je pozitivna, so pa tudi neustrezne.
> >> Zgleda se je koncentriral na ceste pri tem pa je spremenil tudi precej
> relacij. Zaradi površnega dela so vsaj nekatere izmed teh relacij zdaj
> nepravilne. Kot na primer ta turn restriction (
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2653752/history). Zdaj je legalno
> narediti oster zavoj in se vrniti v krožišče.
> >>
> >> Na moj poziv naj popravi take napake je jasno odgovoril da tega ne
> namerava storiti.
> >> Predlagam da se lotite popravljanja.
> >>
> >> Pozdrav,
> >>Blaž
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-si mailing list
> >> Talk-si@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-si mailing list
> > Talk-si@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si
>
> ___
> Talk-si mailing list
> Talk-si@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si
>
___
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Re: [Talk-si] Mapping trails

[Igor Brejc]

Welcome Davide,

I'm not sure whether there is such a group, maybe you should also check OSM
Slovenia forum (https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=58)

Happy mapping!
Igor

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 9:15 AM Davide Dozza  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> my name is Davide and I live in Koper.
>
> I'd like to start mapping trails in Primorska following examples of
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapping_Trails_In_Slovenia
>
> I wonder to know if there is a group coordinating and/or supervisioning
> this activities in order to collaborate with it and be sure to follow
> guidelines.
>
> Best regards
>
> Davide
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-si mailing list
> Talk-si@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si
>
___
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Re: [Talk-si] Začetniška vprašanja

[Igor Brejc]

Zdravo,

En popravek glede voznih pasov:

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 11:16 AM colored stone 
wrote:

>
>
> *Ali se da kako zrenderirati ceste tako, da se vidijo tudi vozni
> pasovi? Lahko tudi samo ob velikem zoomu. Po možnosti z oznakami, kam se
> iz katerega pasu lahko zavija? *
>
> Nekatere ceste (npr. dvopasovnice, avtoceste) se vnašajo z vsaki voznim
> pasovom posebej.
>

Verjetno si mislil(a) z vsakim smernim voziščem posebej (terminologija iz
https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avtocesta). Pasovi se načeloma ne vnašajo
posebej, razen mogoče pri dvopasovnicah z nivojskimi križišči, ko se
pojavijo dodatni pasovi za zaviti v levo ali desno. Drugače se ena smer
npr. avtoceste riše kot en sam way, ne glede na to, ali ima enega, dva, tri
ali več voznih pasov. Glej
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway#How_to_map

Lep pozdrav,
Igor
___
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Re: [Talk-si] Poročilo srečanja Openstreetmap (Trnovski zvon, 31.3.2017)

[Igor Brejc]

30m, gre za najnovejšo verzijo SRTM.

On May 30, 2017 16:33, "Blaž Lorger" <blaz.lor...@krs.net> wrote:

Pravzaprav je dosti večje odstopanje zaradi relativno redkega vzorčenja
SRTM v primerjavi z LIDAR podatki. 90m proti 1 m. Večina (vsi)
interpolacijskih algoritmov ima v dolinah (+) in na grebenih (-) zelo
velika odstopanja. Če pogledaš kako cesto za katero veš da se enakomerno
vzpenja boš na SRTM plastnicah dobil vtis kot da se v vsaki dolini precej
dvigne na grebenu pa spusti, tudi po 100m. Če pogledaš plastnice generirane
iz LIDAR podatkov lahko vidiš da je vzpon enakomeren.

Pozdrav,
  Blaž

On 30. 05. 2017 10:27, Stefan Baebler wrote:

Ja, ta teza bo kar držala, ker se vidi, da so odstopanja (radar izmeril
višjo višino kot lidar) večja tam kjer je gozd, tam kjer ga ni (travniki)
so pa sta višini reliefov precej bolj podobni.

lp,
Štefan

2017-05-29 22:05 GMT+02:00 Igor Brejc <igor.br...@gmail.com>:

> SRTM višine so radarske, posnete iz Space Shuttla leta 2000. Do napak
> (npr. pri Sedovcu) verjetno prihaja zato, ker je ta radar meril odboj od
> dreves in ne od tal:
>>
>>
>>
>> *Did the radar sample the tops of trees or the ground level? *The radar
>> does not "see" through thick vegetation canopies. It probably penetrated a
>> little way into some canopies, but in general it followed near the top of
>> the canopy.
>
>
> https://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/faq.html
>
> 2017-05-29 21:11 GMT+02:00 Jaka Kranjc <s...@lynxlynx.info>:
>
>> On Sun, 28 May 2017 20:33:06 +0200
>> Marko Burjek <email4ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Pozdravljeni,
>> >
>> > Dne 27. maj 2017 21:15 je Jaka Kranjc <s...@lynxlynx.info> napisal/-a:
>> >
>> > > On Sat, 27 May 2017 17:46:12 +0200
>> > > Mitja Jež <mi...@xn--je-3va.si> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Pozdravljeni,
>> > > >
>> > > > On 03. 04. 2017 21:27, colored stone wrote:
>> > > > > Eno glavnih tem je "odprl" Klemen, ki je nekaj povedal o
>> > > > > orientacijskih kartah, ki se uporabljajo pri orientacijskih
>> > > > > tekmah v okviru Orientacijske zveze Slovenije. Njegova ideja
>> > > > > je, da bi poizkusili OSM uporabiti kot podlago za izdelavo teh
>> > > > > kart. Nekaj podobnega je OPENORIENTEERINGMAP
>> > > > > (http://oomap.co.uk/global/#/new/streeto_global/15/14.4876/4
>> 6.0602/
>> > > > > <http://oomap.co.uk/global/#/new/streeto_global/15/14.4876/4
>> 6.0602/>).
>> > > >
>> > > > za planinska orientacijska tekmovanja rajše uporabljamo TOPO
>> > > > karte. Najverjetneje jih bom v te namene tiskal iz: OpenTopoMap
>> > > > (https://opentopomap.org/#map=/15/46.0602/14.4876/)
>> > > A niso malo prerevne napram DTK, sploh kar se tiče simbologije?
>> > > Recimo jama vs jama z izvirom; pa vrtače nimajo minusa.
>> > >
>> > To se da popravit, ker je stil na GitHubu. Sam sem naredo karto z
>> > OpenTopomap stilom in z slo LIDAR višinami in je kr opazna razlika.
>> > Marsikje se bolj natančno vidi potek reliefa. Bom poskuso dat del na
>> > net za primerjavo. Trenutno mam višine samo za okolico Maribora na
>> > računalniku, ker jih je dosti.
>> Kjer so podatki že noter. POT-i pogosto potekajo v pregovornih rovtah,
>> ki so seveda slabše skartirane. Ponekod tudi ni bila uvožena raba tal.
>> V glavnem, precej dela.
>>
>> PS, glede na tvojo primerjalno karto tudi sumim (pogosto odstopa za
>> dve plastnici), da so na SRTM plastnicah GPS višine, ne naše, kar še
>> poslabša stvari. Napaka ni vedno vidna, je pa pri Sedovcu (med Ruško
>> in MB kočo), kjer je vrh nižji od višinskega pasu, kateremu pripada.
>>
>> LP
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-si] Poročilo srečanja Openstreetmap (Trnovski zvon, 31.3.2017)

[Igor Brejc]

Super!

On May 29, 2017 18:20, "Marko Burjek"  wrote:

> Kot obljubljeno:
> Primerjava med OpenTopo z LIDAR podatki na levi in trenutnim OpenTopo z
> SRTM na desni. Drsnik se da premikat levo in desno. Karta je narejena za
> okolico maribora, (levo rogla, desno Mala nedelja, gor meja, spodaj
> slovenska bistrica) Zoom 12-17. Drugače je podatkov preveč že to je skoraj
> 1GB slik. Trenutno tudi nimam višinskih podatkov za večji delež Slovenije
> kot to, ampak ni pa nek problem za celo Slovenijo to naredit. Razlika v
> številu hiš na karti je pa verjetno posledica tega, da je moja karta delana
> na predvčerajšnjem OSM extractu, OpenTopo pa verjento bolj redko osvežuje
> velik zoom, ker manjkajo neke hiše ki so bile dodane 2 mesca nazaj.
>
> Edino kar manjka na moji karti je usmerjenost sedl, ker nisem imel
> višinskih podatkov v pravi projekciji pa zaenkrat nisem tega delal. Po moje
> to vpliva samo na alpe, Pohorje mislim da ne.
>
> https://slo-osm.duckdns.org/output/topo_compare.html
>
> Dne 28. maj 2017 20:33 je Marko Burjek  napisal/-a:
>
>> Pozdravljeni,
>>
>> Dne 27. maj 2017 21:15 je Jaka Kranjc  napisal/-a:
>>
>>> On Sat, 27 May 2017 17:46:12 +0200
>>> Mitja Jež  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Pozdravljeni,
>>> >
>>> > On 03. 04. 2017 21:27, colored stone wrote:
>>> > > Eno glavnih tem je "odprl" Klemen, ki je nekaj povedal o
>>> > > orientacijskih kartah, ki se uporabljajo pri orientacijskih tekmah v
>>> > > okviru Orientacijske zveze Slovenije. Njegova ideja je, da bi
>>> > > poizkusili OSM uporabiti kot podlago za izdelavo teh kart. Nekaj
>>> > > podobnega je OPENORIENTEERINGMAP
>>> > > (http://oomap.co.uk/global/#/new/streeto_global/15/14.4876/46.0602/
>>> > > >> >).
>>> >
>>> > za planinska orientacijska tekmovanja rajše uporabljamo TOPO karte.
>>> > Najverjetneje jih bom v te namene tiskal iz: OpenTopoMap
>>> > (https://opentopomap.org/#map=/15/46.0602/14.4876/)
>>> A niso malo prerevne napram DTK, sploh kar se tiče simbologije? Recimo
>>> jama vs jama z izvirom; pa vrtače nimajo minusa.
>>>
>> To se da popravit, ker je stil na GitHubu. Sam sem naredo karto z
>> OpenTopomap stilom in z slo LIDAR višinami in je kr opazna razlika.
>> Marsikje se bolj natančno vidi potek reliefa. Bom poskuso dat del na net za
>> primerjavo. Trenutno mam višine samo za okolico Maribora na računalniku,
>> ker jih je dosti.
>>
>>>
>>> LP
>>>
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Re: [Talk-si] nov maper razsaja po Sloveniji

[Igor Brejc]

Mislim, da se je boljše vzdrževati komentarjev tipa correcting changes
made by an idiot ipd. (razen če res gre za namerne, katastrofalne
spremembe). Fant je začel mapirati pred komaj štirimi dnevi, pač začetniške
napake. Po moje je problem predvsem v sistemu, ki omogoča kakršnokoli
spreminjanje ne glede na izkušnje.

lp Igor

2015-05-02 8:26 GMT+02:00 Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com:

 Absolutno, sem mu povsod prijazno napisal razlog revertanja in predlog za
 izboljšavo (uporaba relacij).

 Lp,
 Štefan
 Najboljse da se mu se napise kaj dela narobe. Ceprav se to malokdaj
 uposteva. Sam sem poiskusal nekega mariborskega mapperja prepricat da naj
 uporablja ustaljeno shemo za wifi in ostalo pa vstraja na svoji ki se
 seveda ne prikazuje nikjer in vstavlja podatke v bistvu brez ucinka.

 Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook™
 www.blackberry.com

 --
 *From:* Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com
 *To:* Blaž Lorger blaz.lor...@krs.net
 *CC:* OSM-Talk-Si talk-si@openstreetmap.org
 *Sent:* May 1, 2015 10:53 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [Talk-si] nov maper razsaja po Sloveniji

 Sem pregledal še vse njegove ostale prispevke in je žal v vseh zelo grobo
 dodajal bodisi pešpoti ali kolesarske steze po obstoječih poteh, zato sem
 revertal še vse ostale njegove prispevke.

 lp,
 Štefan

 2015-05-01 21:55 GMT+02:00 Stefan Baebler:
 
  Ja, tudi od Ljubljanie do Višnje gore je naredil eno takšno dolgo
 stezico:
  https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/341018171
  https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30557944
  Posnetek: http://imgur.com/DLZpqqg
  Sem mu vpisal komentar k chagesetu in brez zadržkov naredil revert (
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30701724 )
  Ponavadi bi najprej odprl debato in mu predlagal, da zadevo popravi,
 ampak se bojim, da bi pri tem nastalo več škode kot koristi, odlašanje pa
 bi kvečjemu otežilo kasnejši revert.
 
  Ostali uporabnikovi prispevki:
  https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tanch/history
  Po komentarjih changesetov se bojim, da so vsi zelo podobni.
 
  lp,
  Štefan
 
 

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Re: [Talk-si] Fwd: [OpenStreetMap] Imamo dovoljenje!

[Igor Brejc]

Zdravo,

Fajn novica. V QGISu sem naložil .shp rabe (600 MB), ni mi pa uspelo dodati
OSM map layerja, javlja napako, nisem se poglabljal.
Tukaj sta dva primera rabe za MB in LJ:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6894864/temp/raba-mb.jpg in
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6894864/temp/raba-lj.jpg

Prvo, kar se da ugotoviti je, da so poligoni razbiti v pravokotno mrežo.
Torej če bomo tole importali, je eno od vprašanj ali to združevati v večje
multipoligone ali ohraniti tako, kot je. In kako bi se sploh lotili importa
(in kdo).

lp Igor

2014-09-07 18:57 GMT+02:00 Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com:

 FYI:
 http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=26891

 Ima kdo možnost iz shapefile-a narediti kak enostaven overlay čez OSM
 zemljevid, da preverimo vir?

 Lp,
 Štefan
  -- Posredovano sporočilo --
 Od: gvil m-454892-b65...@messages.openstreetmap.org
 Datum: 5. sep. 2014 12:09
 Zadeva: [OpenStreetMap] Imamo dovoljenje!
 Za: stefan.baebler+...@gmail.com
 Kp:

 Pozdravljeni, StefanB,

 Uporabnik gvil http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/gvil vam je prek
 OpenStreetMap poslal novo sporočilo glede Imamo dovoljenje!:
 ==

 rkg.m...@gov.si

 11.47 (pred 19 minute)

 Za meni Spoštovani,

 podatki evidence dejanske rabe so javni in se lahko uporabljajo v vse
 namene, ob predpostavki, da je naveden vir in datum podatkov ter navedba,
 da se evidenca dejanske rabe kmetijskih in gozdnih zemljišč sprotno
 posodablja, glede na dostopnost virov in informacij in da stanje, ki ga
 prikazujete ne odraža vedno trenutnega stanja.

 Lep pozdrav, Alenka Rotter

 27.06.2014 09:29 Prosim, odgovorite za rkg.mkgp

 Za:rkg@gov.si,
 kp:
 Zadeva:Prošnja za soglasje za uporabo grafičnih podatkov RABA v 
 OpenStreetMap

 ==

 Lahko tudi preberete sporočilo na
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/read/454892 in lahko odgovorite na
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/reply/454892


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Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki: Removing Content from .../User:xxx/Kosmos Pages

[Igor Brejc]

Hi Andreas,

I'm the author of Kosmos. It doesn't really work with the new OSM data (64
bit IDs etc) and I haven't received any user support email for at least a
couple of years, so it's safe to say no one uses it anymore. Maperitive
replaced all of its functionality long time ago. So if you feel the need to
clean up the wiki pages, please don't hesitate to do so. And thanks for the
effort.

Best regards,
Igor Brejc

On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Andreas Goss andi...@t-online.de wrote:

 I'm trying to clean up the Wiki and frequently use What links here,
 especially when it's not clear how a tag I used and I suspect different
 definitions on different pages.

 Usually that works great and I get like 5-15 results, but for some tags I
 get like 100+, because they are linked to Kosmos rules user pages. On the
 Kosmos Wiki page (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kosmos) it says:

  Kosmos is no longer actively maintained, since it has been replaced  by
 a new tool called Maperitive. The new tool is much more flexible  and
 powerful, so the author recommends switching to it.

 Is anybody still using the Kosmos software?

 The pages in question:
 https://www.google.com/#q=site:wiki.openstreetmap.org%
 2Fwiki%2FUser:+inurl:Kosmos

 Would it be alright to remove the whole content and replace it with the
 same banner as on the Kosmos Wiki page? Is there a better solution?

 Here is one example where it is really annoying:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Special:
 WhatLinksHere/Tag:leisure%3Dcommonlimit=500

 Andi
 __
 openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88
 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88‎


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Re: [Talk-si] DPK 50

[Igor Brejc]

Tole bi lahko precej pocenilo dostop do svežih ortofotk:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-02-13/satellite-imaging-startups-skybox-planet-labs-race-to-cover-earth

2014-03-19 1:40 GMT+01:00 jean caffou [GEO] g...@kafol.net:

 Je pa res, da se je vmes spremenila tudi OSM licenca in da bi vseeno
 nekateri raje kupovali podatke od Gursa, kjer niso omejeni z share-alike
 klavzulo.

 To je dober argument​​. Lahko se tudi osebno oglasi tam, ali pripravi kak
 dopis. Če že omogočajo nekaj free, pa naj bo *free*.

 Dodajam še eno ljubljansko (LUZ / Urbinfo Mestne občine Ljubljana):

 Uuu...​​ takšne ločljivosti DOF Ljubljane pa še nisem videl.

 Se je pa v zadnjih par letih na OSM nabrala kar lepa količina GPS sledi,

 Po cestah že​​, veliko pešpoti pa ni, ki drugod so. Meni še najbolj moteča
 je pa naravnost odsekana gozdna meja nad Žirmi, ki jo opazujem že odkar sem
 prvič naletel na OSM.
 Z DPK 50 bi se vegetacijo dalo lepo dopolniti, že zaradi estetike
 zemljevida. Bing je precej nekonsistenčen z resolucijami. Primer: Postojna
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=15/45.7749/14.2097
 Popolnoma neuporabno.

 lp,
 žan


 Dne 18. marec 2014 17:44 je Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com napisal/-a:

 Nekaj smo poskušal (večkrat), vendar je vedno bilo tako, da tudi če smo
 dobili kakšno dovoljenje prek maila, nismo bili sigurni ali se zavedajo
 implikacij takšnega uvoza (npr. da bo potem nekdo raje uporabil zastonj OSM
 podatke kot plačal Gursu). Je pa res, da se je vmes spremenila tudi OSM
 licenca in da bi vseeno nekateri raje kupovali podatke od Gursa, kjer niso
 omejeni z share-alike klavzulo.

 Tukaj sem našel nekaj arhivskih mailov na to temo, verjetno je tega še
 več:

-
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-si/2009-August/85.html
- https://www.mail-archive.com/talk-si@openstreetmap.org/msg00174.html

 lp Igor


 2014-03-18 17:37 GMT+01:00 jean caffou [GEO] g...@kafol.net:

 Iz GURSa pa ni moč dobiti izrecnega dovoljenja za uporabo podatkov v te
 namene?

 lp,
 žan


 Dne 18. marec 2014 17:34 je Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.comnapisal/-a:

 Našel pogoje uporabe (samo PDF sken, žal je naša javna uprava očitno še
 v predinternetskih časih):
 http://www.e-prostor.gov.si/fileadmin/narocanje/pogoji_uporabe_podpisani.pdf

 Torej tista Kickstarter ideja očitno odpade.

 lp Igor


 2014-03-18 17:28 GMT+01:00 Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com:

 Zdravo,

 Se strinjam s Štefanom. Pa še ena opazka: OSM ni ne komercialen ne
 nekomercialen. Gre pač za podatkovno bazo, ki dovoljuje uporabo svojih
 podatkov pod določeno licenco, v tem primeru ODbL. Licenca ne prepoveduje
 komercialne uporabe, zato ni mogoče govoriti o tem, da je OSM
 nekomercialen, tudi če so podatki zastonj.

 Tista Gursova licenca pa je itak čudna. Poznam ljudi oz. podjetja,
 ki so od Gursa šli kupit prostorske podatke, potem pa jih lahko lepo
 talajo tudi za komercialne namene (ne vem pa točno ali so kakšne 
 omejitve
 glede tega, lahko pa preverim). Teoretično bi lahko naredili Kickstarter
 projekt zbiranja denarja za nakup Gursovih podatkov in potem uvoza le-teh 
 v
 OSM. Teoretično.

 Tukaj je Gursov cenik, če koga zanima:
 http://www.e-prostor.gov.si/fileadmin/narocanje/cenik_ponovne_uporabe.pdfin
  sumarno za celotno Slovenijo:
 http://www.e-prostor.gov.si/fileadmin/narocanje/Tabela_stevila_enot_in_tock.pdf

 lp Igor


 2014-03-18 15:45 GMT+01:00 Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com:

 Pozdravljen!

 Res je, da OpenStreetMap sam po sebi ni komercialen projekt, vendar
 ODbL (kakor tudi predhodna CC-BY-SA) licenca uporabe podatkov ne
 omejuje v nekomercialne namene.

 http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/

 http://www.e-prostor.gov.si/fileadmin/narocanje/pogoji_uporabe_podpisani.pdf

 Verjetno ni mišljeno, da bi komercialni projekti zaobšli GURSove
 pogoje z nekomercialno pralnico podatkov (npr OSM).
 Tako, da je to bolj sivo področje in zato brez izrecnega dovoljenja
 prerisovanja ne bi priporočal.
 Doslej smo z dovoljenjem GURSa uvozili državne in naknadno nekdo še
 občinske meje, zlasti ker sta obe vrsti mej administrativna podatka,
 ki ju je praktično nemogoče izmeriti v naravi (večji del ni oznak,
 nedostopen teren) in ju lahko brez večjih težav in škode kadarkoli
 naknadno pobrišemo (se ne prepleta z drugimi, ročno vrisanimi
 podatki).

 Upam, da se motim in z veseljem sprejmem tudi drugačno interpretacijo
 pogojev uporabe.

 Edina luknja, ki jo vidim je, da bi lahko mi (oz kdorkoli pač želi oz
 ima interes) pripravili aplikacijo, ki bi GURSove podatke (pridobljene
 po ZDIJZ na DVDju recimo) uporabljala ali pa predelala v format, ki bi
 bil uporaben tudi v drugih aplikacijah (npr offline navigacija ipd). S
 tem ne bi razširjali GURSovih podatkov, ampak bi odgovornost za
 spoštovanje GURSovih pogojev uporabe prenesli na tistega posameznika,
 ki je podatke od GURSa prejel (če podatke uporablja za komercialne
 namene brez ustreznega dovoljenja je to samo njegov problem).

 lp,
 Štefan

 2014-03-18 14:14 GMT

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Elevation / SRTM data

[Igor Brejc]

I'm not an expert, but I think it largely depends on your definition of the
routing database. If you store the elevation data in the original
grid-based form and you request elevation data on-demand for lat/lon coords
without long-term storing of lat/lon + elevation pairs, then I don't really
see the two data sources infecting one another in legal terms.

Except, of course, if you intend to offer the routing as some kind of
high-availability web service which would allow somebody to reconstruct the
original elevation data using web scraping.

Of course, all of this also depends on you getting the approval/agreement
from the CGIAR data owner to use the elevation data for commercial purposes.

Best regards,
Igor Brejc

On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Peter K peat...@yahoo.de wrote:

  It is enhanced SRTM from cgiar: http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org/

 E.g. see: http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org/SRTM_FAQ.asp - *Can I use this data
 for commercial use? **If interested in using this data for commercial
 purposes please email **Andy Jarvis a.jar...@cgiar.org**.*

 Regards,
 Peter.


 If it's SRTM it's just public domain isn't it? So if the resulting
 database is under ODBL I can't see that being a problem.

 Very much IANAL.

 Nick

 -Peter K peat...@yahoo.de peat...@yahoo.de wrote: -
 To: legal-talk@openstreetmap.org
 From: Peter K peat...@yahoo.de peat...@yahoo.de
 Date: 04/07/2013 09:05AM
 Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] Elevation / SRTM data

 Hi there,

 how would like to know how I could integrate SRTM data with OSM data. It
 is not for a mapping service where I could overlay the elevation
 curves/data and keep it separate. It is for my routing engine
 GraphHopper where I would need to do the following:

  * to calculate the distance I take the latitudes and longitudes from
 OSM, to guess the speed I take the highway and other tags. Then, with
 the help of the SRTM data I modify this distance and speed to be more
 real world.
  * to create an elevation profile of the resulting path. This should be
 simple (?) as the elevation data could be in a separate database and
 just fetched on demand.

 Will the resulting routing database fall under ODbL which the providers
 probably do not want as their elevation data could be guessed or even
 recalculated (with a bit effort)?

 Sorry, if this is a stupid question. I'm really new to OSM licensing
 world :) and there was a similar question but this was regarding hill
 shading and the old license:

 http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/OSM-legal-talk-ASTER-or-no-ASTER-td5715399.html

 Regards,
 Peter.



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Elevation / SRTM data

[Igor Brejc]

On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Peter K peat...@yahoo.de wrote:

  Hi Igor,

 exactly in those areas I have a problem of understanding the OSM license :)


  If you store the elevation data in the original grid-based form

 No, as explained, I do intent to calculate edge weights based on OSM and
 elevation data. Is this a trivial change?

 And then I store this mixed weights in-memory but this is only a
 configuration to make it storing on disc. And would it make a difference? I
 read somewhere that storing could be also in-memory with the rise of
 NoSQL databases this makes indeed sense ...


The license text is pretty general and there are different opinion on these
issues. I think the key thing is that once you store combination of a
lon/lat position (taken from OSM) and an elevation, you end up with a
Derivative Database, as defined:

 “Derivative Database” – Means a database based upon the Database, and
includes any translation, adaptation, arrangement, modification, or any
other alteration of the Database or of a Substantial part of the Contents.
This includes, but is not limited to, Extracting or Re-utilising the whole
or a Substantial part of the Contents in a new Database.

As opposed to:

“Collective Database” – Means this Database in unmodified form as part of a
collection of independent databases in themselves that together are
assembled into a collective whole. A work that constitutes a Collective
Database will not be considered a Derivative Database.

From my understanding, once you tie the two related pieces of data from two
separate databases, you can no longer look at it as two independent
databases.



  Except, of course, if you intend to offer the routing as some kind of
 high-availability web service
  which would allow somebody to reconstruct the original elevation data
 using web scraping.

 What did you mean here? This would make a difference for the elevation
 provider license not for the OSM license (?)


Both, I think - this means you publicly distribute the Derivative Database,
which has its implications. It also means that CGIAR-based data is then
available to public through a license different (and more permissive) than
the original CGIAR license, which the owner is probably not going to be
happy about - since he then cannot enforce the *If interested in using
this data for commercial purposes please email* rule.

The relevant text:

4.4 Share alike.

  a. Any Derivative Database that You Publicly Use must be only under
the terms of:

   i. This License;

   ii. A later version of this License similar in spirit to this
License; or

   iii. A compatible license.


But again, I'm not a lawyer :).
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Elevation / SRTM data

[Igor Brejc]

To answer all your questions in one go: there has been a lot of discussion
(especially on this mailing list) about the problems/issues you raised. And
there have been some efforts to better clarify these things. I suggest
reading the mailing list archive.

My own opinion is that the legal issues here are murky and I agree they
could be interpreted differently by different lawyers/people. And I guess
it is very difficult to write a good license text for such type of license,
since there are a lot of different ways the data could be used, lot of
corner cases and a lot of ways the licence could be circumvented by
interested parties if written too specifically. I guess the protecting
power of ODbL is in its murkiness :)

I would not give myself too much hope with interpretations of trivial and
substantial, in my opinion your use case falls well outside of a trivial
and unsubstantial use.

On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 10:35 AM, Peter K peat...@yahoo.de wrote:

  Thanks Igor!

 I still have a problem when the substantial part of the license apply.
 Also in the wiki there is an explanation about trivial transformation.
 Are there some examples when both of them applies?

 The wiki raises more questions then it solves as it e.g. does not say if
 the example is a trivial transformation or not:

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Trivial_Transformations_-_Guideline


  Both, I think - this means you publicly distribute the Derivative
 Database, which has its implications. It also means
  that CGIAR-based data is then available to public through a license
 different (and more permissive) than the original
  CGIAR license, which the owner is probably not going to be happy about -
 since he then cannot enforce the
  *If interested in using this data for commercial purposes please email*
 rule.

 Ok, makes sense! BTW: why is such a modification not allowed for
 OpenStreetMap? IMO this limits the applications a lot as also enterprise
 guys cannot just buy a commercial license of OSM so they would need to *
 completely* stay away from OSM!



  But again, I'm not a lawyer :)

  The thing with ODbl is that even lawyers are not sure because there are
 no (or too few) court cases. So the community has to make this very vague
 ODbl definition more specific. This clarification would be important to
 increase the adoption in the enterprise.

 Regards,
 Peter.


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Data consumer use cases

[Igor Brejc]

Thank you, Jonathan



On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Jonathan Harley j...@spiffymap.net wrote:


 Hi all, just a note to say that I've updated the Use Cases wiki page based
 on the comments below from Igor and others who replied to me earlier in the
 month.

 Michael - everyone who's commented about your redrafted guideline has
 agreed with it - maybe it's time to go ahead and replace what's there now.

 Jonathan.



 On 05/11/12 19:46, Igor Brejc wrote:


 On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Jonathan Harley j...@spiffymap.netmailto:
 j...@spiffymap.net wrote:


 Michael's reply to you about the trivial transformation
 guideline of 30 October agrees with this - in his terms it
 provides no new physical observations and the intent of the
 license is to capture those for share-alike, not to extend
 share-alike to any technique used for storing or transmitting the
 data.

 Anyone disagree?


 +1


 What are the other examples you had in mind? Real-world examples
 are exactly what we need for this.


 Some more:

   * Various forms of algorithm-driven generalizations: simplifications

 of roads and polygons, merging of polygons with same or similar
 landuse, elimination of polygons that are too small for given map
 scale (like buildings), amalgamation...
   * Transformation of multipolygons (polygons with holes) into weakly

 simple polygons (certain platforms don't know how to render
 polygons with holes).
   * Algorithm-driven automated label and icon placement.
   * Other applications of geometric and graph algorithms on OSM data

 (Voronoi diagrams, traveling distances etc.) if they are driven by
 OSM data only.

 Best regards,
 Igor


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Data consumer use cases

[Igor Brejc]

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.comwrote:

 2012/11/5 David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net:

 btw.: also removing might be of interest, e.g. someone checking all
 businesses in OSM and removing them in the case they are closed now
 would be a major improvement we would like to have fed back into OSM
 also if nothing was actually _added_.


Such elimination would be impossible without using an external data source
of businesses now open/closed, so in my view this would constitute a
Derivative Database (with physical observations). Adding is an abstract
term: removing closed businesses could be viewed as adding information
about whether a business is now open or closed. Even if you then physically
remove all closed businesses from the database, this information would
still remain (implicitly) in the database.

Igor
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licenses for Produced Works under ODbL

[Igor Brejc]

 the augmented or re-cast
 data; in this case the physical observations must be provided to the public
 in a commonly used or documented open format as per ODbL clause 4.6b *.

 [1]
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Trivial_Transformations_-_Guideline


 On 29/10/2012 18:07, Igor Brejc wrote:

 Hi Michael,

  First of all, thanks for the link. I've read it carefully and it doesn't
 really answer my questions, it just raises some new ones. Those guidelines,
 as they are written, treat the issue of proprietary/closed source code very
 superficially and without considering too much the practical consequences.
 They also don't really answer the question what is a Database. Let's
 take, for example, the statement Rendering databases, for example those
 produced by Osm2pgsql, are clearly databases. First of all, what are
 rendering databases? I don't share the same clearliness of that
 statement, frankly.

  Another issue is machine-readable form of an algorithm. Who says I
 should interpret that as a source code? And if I do, under what license
 can/should/must I release the source code? I'm certainly not going to
 release my work under the Public Domain.

  I think the core issue that needs to be addressed and answered is: *is
 there a place for proprietary/closed source software in OSM ecosystem*?
 If we follow the strict reading logic of the mentioned guideliness and
 the one expressed in Frederik's answer, I would certainly have to say the
 answer is NO.

  I see some serious issues with the way how we approach the whole ODbL
 thing. As someone who has invested a lot of time and energy into OSM and
 who is trying to find a business model that would enable me to stay in the
 OSM domain, I think the core questions about ODbL have not been answered
 and this scares people/companies off. If the OSM community wants all the
 OSM-based software to be open source, then please say so. But please treat
 all the players the same: Apple, esri, Google and one-man-band companies.

  Best regards,
 Igor

 On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.bizwrote:

  Hi Igor,

 I wonder if this resource helps with your question?


 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Trivial_Transformations_-_Guideline(a
  work in progress)

 Mike



 On 22/10/2012 18:45, Igor Brejc wrote:

 Hi,

  Thanks for your clarifications, everybody. I was under the (looks like
 wrong) impression the produced work must also be available under the ODbL
 license.
 One issue still bugs me though:

  If the closed software you have used did not work on the data directly,
 but on some sort of pre-processed or augmented data, then *that* would be
 the data you have to hand over.


  What does pre-processed or augmented data really mean? OSM data has
 to be preprocessed to get to the form suitable for rendering. Some examples
 of preprocessing:

1. Importing it into PostGIS and flattening the geometries (like
Mapnik does it).
2. Generalizations: simplifications of roads, polygons etc. for a
certain map scale.
3. Finding suitable label placements.
4. Extracting topology from the data (like multipolygon processing,
merging of polygons, road segments etc.).
5. Running other complex algorithms on the OSM data.

  This preprocessing can be done on-the fly or (in case of Mapnik) as a
 separate prerequisite step.

  Igor

 On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.orgwrote:

 Hi,

 On 10/22/12 12:07, Igor Brejc wrote:

  2. I generate a PDF map from that extract using an unpublished,

 closed-source software. The map includes the appropriate OSM
 attribution text.


  1. Is this possible?


 Yes (assuming that the PDF is not a database).

   2. What are my obligations in terms of ODbL license? What (if
 anything)

  do I have to provide, publish etc.?

  Recipients of the PDF, i.e. anyone who views iStockPhoto, would have
 the right to ask you to hand over the database on which the map is based.
 You would then have the option of saying it's plain OSM, simply download
 it from X, or actually give them the data.

 If the closed software you have used did not work on the data directly,
 but on some sort of pre-processed or augmented data, then *that* would be
 the data you have to hand over.

  3. Would there be a difference if it was PNG/SVG instead of PDF?


 I don't think so.

  4. Can the buyer of such a map then password-protect his own resulting

 work (which includes that map)?


 Yes. You will have sold him the work under the condition that he
 continues to attribute OSM, but other than that he has no obligations
 (unless you put some in).

 If you sell the work with an OSM attribution but without the condition
 to perpetuate that attribution, you may be in breach of ODbL or you may
 not; this depends on how you interpret the suitably calculated to make
 anyone ... aware clause.

 Bye
 Frederik



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licenses for Produced Works under ODbL

[Igor Brejc]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:46 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 On 10/30/12 08:19, Igor Brejc wrote:

 Some then say that these in-memory data structures are also Derivative
 Databases. In what form can you then offer such a Database to someone
 that requests it?


 I don't think there's a way how one could require the making available of
 such a transient structure without making OSM data processing totally
 impractical.


I agree, but in that case the author of the Produced Work could simply say:
I choose to go by the clause 4.6a and publish the entire Derivative
Database, but since the only practically publishable Database is the
original OSM XML file, I'm sending you just the link to the downloadable
extract from Geofabrik. I would thus satisfy the 4.6 clause. Am I wrong?


 Always keep in mind that the machine readable clause is only there as an
 alternative in cases where you would prefer not to make the derived
 database available; you can *always* settle for making the derived database
 available instead and then nobody cares about your software.


I realize that, but I think anyone involved in making Produced Works will
want to explore all the alternatives before deciding which one suits them
most.


 (Btw. you always write source code but the ODbL does not talk about
 source code; isn't a binary just as machine readable?)


You have a point. I guess I was just repeating the logic mentioned in the
Open Data License/Trivial Transformations - Guideline without really
thinking about it.

Igor
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licenses for Produced Works under ODbL

[Igor Brejc]

Hi,

My understanding (emphases are mine):

“*Contents*” – The contents of this Database, which includes the
 information, independent works, or other material collected into the
 Database. For example, the contents of the Database could be factual data
 or works such as *images*, audiovisual material, text, or sounds.


...

“*Produced Work*” – a work (such as an *image*, audiovisual material, text,
 or sounds) resulting from using the *whole or a Substantial part of the
 Contents* (via a search or other query) from this Database, a Derivative
 Database, or this Database as part of a Collective Database.

...

4.3 Notice for using output (Contents). Creating and Using a Produced Work
 does not require the notice in Section 4.2. However, if you Publicly Use a
 Produced Work, You must include a notice associated with the Produced Work
 reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views, accesses,
 interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work aware that 
 *Content
 *was obtained from the Database, Derivative Database, or the Database as
 part of a Collective Database, *and that it is available under this
 License*.


...

 4.8 Licensing of others. You may not sublicense the Database. Each time
 You communicate the Database, *the whole or Substantial part of the
 Contents*, or any Derivative Database to anyone else in any way, *the
 Licensor offers to the recipient a license to the Database on the same
 terms and conditions as this License*. *You are not responsible for
 enforcing compliance by third parties with this License*, but You may
 enforce any rights that You have over a Derivative Database. You are solely
 responsible for any modifications of a Derivative Database made by You or
 another Person at Your direction. *You may not impose any further
 restrictions on the exercise of the rights granted or affirmed under this
 License*.


If I read these articles correctly, then the Produced Work obtained from
ODbL-licensed Database must be licensed under the ODbL license (once you
publicly use the Produced Work). But it's not your responsibility to
enforce the license on 3rd parties that use your Produced Work.

Igor

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 10:41 AM, Robert Whittaker (OSM) 
robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have a question concerning the ability of someone creating produced
 works from an ODbL-licensed database to license that produced work for
 use by others. Strictly speaking it's a question about the ODbL,
 rather that OSM, but since it will have a significant effect on OSM
 users, I thought I would try asking here. For reference, the ODbL
 license text can be found at
 http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/

 I understand that if someone creates and then publicly uses a
 produced work from an ODbL-licensed database then they are required to
 add some text to the produced work saying that it came from such a
 database
 (ODbL 4.3), ensure that any derivative database created along the way
 are under a suitable license (ODbL 4.4) and also meet the requirements
 for providing the final database or algorithm used to produce
 it (ODbL 4.6).

 That's all fine. My question is: how can that produced work then be
 licensed to others? Are there any restrictions placed on what license
 someone could offer the produced work under? Do they have to ensure
 that other users and creators of derivative works maintain the
 attribution back to the original ODbL database? Or could they offer
 the work under something like the CC0 license? Do they have to
 share-alike
 the produced work? Or can they keep it all rights reserved?

 This would seem to be quite an important question for OSM data users
 who are producing map tiles, and I can't see anything to specifically
 address this in the ODbL itself. Except perhaps in clause 4.3, which
 could be
 taken as a viral attribution requirement on any re-uses of the
 produced work. However, 4.3 only refers to the produced work itself,
 and not any derivative works arising from it.

 My understanding is that you don't have to share-alike produced works
 and can keep them all rights reserved if you want (though the other
 requirements listed above may mean that others could replicate your
 work quite easily, so it may not be that effective to do so). I also
 don't think there's anything to stop people CC0-ing produced works,
 but I'm not as confident on this point. So I'd appreciate any
 clarification and/or reasoning that anyone can give.

 Many thanks,

 Robert.

 --
 Robert Whittaker

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licenses for Produced Works under ODbL

[Igor Brejc]

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote:

 Produced Works do not have to be licensed under a share-alike licence.
 Attribution is required, as per the above clause. My view is that this
 implies a downstream attribution requirement too (reasonably calculated to
 make any Person... exposed to the Produced Work) - besides, in practice,
 why wouldn't you want to? - but I think Robert disagrees with me on this.


OK, how about this scenario:

   1. I download the OSM extract from Geofabrik, Cloudmade or some XAPI
   server.
   2. I generate a PDF map from that extract using an unpublished,
   closed-source software. The map includes the appropriate OSM attribution
   text..
   3. I publish the PDF map on sites like http://www.istockphoto.com claiming
   full copyright and sell it as royalty-free vector graphics.

Questions:

   1. Is this possible?
   2. What are my obligations in terms of ODbL license? What (if anything)
   do I have to provide, publish etc.?
   3. Would there be a difference if it was PNG/SVG instead of PDF?
   4. Can the buyer of such a map then password-protect his own resulting
   work (which includes that map)?

Thanks,
Igor
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licenses for Produced Works under ODbL

[Igor Brejc]

Hi,

Thanks for your clarifications, everybody. I was under the (looks like
wrong) impression the produced work must also be available under the ODbL
license.
One issue still bugs me though:

If the closed software you have used did not work on the data directly, but
 on some sort of pre-processed or augmented data, then *that* would be the
 data you have to hand over.


What does pre-processed or augmented data really mean? OSM data has to be
preprocessed to get to the form suitable for rendering. Some examples of
preprocessing:

   1. Importing it into PostGIS and flattening the geometries (like Mapnik
   does it).
   2. Generalizations: simplifications of roads, polygons etc. for a
   certain map scale.
   3. Finding suitable label placements.
   4. Extracting topology from the data (like multipolygon processing,
   merging of polygons, road segments etc.).
   5. Running other complex algorithms on the OSM data.

This preprocessing can be done on-the fly or (in case of Mapnik) as a
separate prerequisite step.

Igor

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 Hi,

 On 10/22/12 12:07, Igor Brejc wrote:

  2. I generate a PDF map from that extract using an unpublished,

 closed-source software. The map includes the appropriate OSM
 attribution text.


   1. Is this possible?


 Yes (assuming that the PDF is not a database).

   2. What are my obligations in terms of ODbL license? What (if anything)

  do I have to provide, publish etc.?

 Recipients of the PDF, i.e. anyone who views iStockPhoto, would have the
 right to ask you to hand over the database on which the map is based. You
 would then have the option of saying it's plain OSM, simply download it
 from X, or actually give them the data.

 If the closed software you have used did not work on the data directly,
 but on some sort of pre-processed or augmented data, then *that* would be
 the data you have to hand over.

   3. Would there be a difference if it was PNG/SVG instead of PDF?


 I don't think so.

   4. Can the buyer of such a map then password-protect his own resulting

 work (which includes that map)?


 Yes. You will have sold him the work under the condition that he continues
 to attribute OSM, but other than that he has no obligations (unless you put
 some in).

 If you sell the work with an OSM attribution but without the condition to
 perpetuate that attribution, you may be in breach of ODbL or you may not;
 this depends on how you interpret the suitably calculated to make anyone
 ... aware clause.

 Bye
 Frederik

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licenses for Produced Works under ODbL

[Igor Brejc]

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:


   2. Generalizations: simplifications of roads, polygons etc. for a
 certain map scale.


 Same process - either you share the generalized data or you share the
 algorithm that produces it. If, for example, you were to import with ImpOSM
 which does generalisations when importing, that's all you'd have to say.

   3. Finding suitable label placements.
  4. Extracting topology from the data (like multipolygon processing,

 merging of polygons, road segments etc.).
  5. Running other complex algorithms on the OSM data.


 This preprocessing can be done on-the fly or (in case of Mapnik) as a
 separate prerequisite step.


 The boundary between what is done as a separate step, leading to a derived
 database, and what is done on the fly as part of the rendering process may
 sometimes be muddy but I guess in these situations they are pretty clear.

 Another interesting question is how easy the algorithm you specify must
 be. It is clear that the algorithm cannot include buy some Navteq data and
 then do this, or buy ArcGIS and then do that - but what if the algorithm
 includes run this code, it will take 1000 days, or make sure your
 machine has at least 1 TB of RAM, then continue as follows


The first question is what is the purpose of that method description? If
the purpose is to enable _anyone_ repeating the same process, then I see a
big problem with this interpretation: it effectively means you cannot use
closed source software to generate publicly distributed maps. In one case
you might not be the owner of the source code (ArcGIS as an example), so
you cannot really describe the actual algorithm behind it. In another case,
if you're the owner of the code, you'll either be forced to write length
documents describing your algorithms, or release the source code. And BTW
under what terms/license that document/source code is released? What
prevents a company XYZ then using that source code to do processing of
completely different Databases (not OSM's)?

I don't see how this this clause can be enforced is the scenarios I've
mentioned. Here are some possible outcomes:

   1. The owner of the code has to open-source the code (which could mean
   tossing away a large investment in time  money and giving it free to the
   competition). Who ensures that the source code is complete enough to enable
   the repetition of the process?
   2. The owner writes a crappy document describing the algorithm that no
   one can follow (I've seen a lot of such scientific articles). Who will
   ensure that such documents are usable?
   3. The owner releases a derivative DB which (since the processing is
   done in-memory) is just an binary (almost) random stream of data, difficult
   to read and process for anyone without the original source code. Does he
   need to release the documentation of the data format?

Maybe I'm missing something, I don't know.

Igor
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Re: [Talk-si] Talk-si izvleček, let 38, številka 2

[Igor Brejc]

Zdravo,

Jaz v bistvu nisem ravno ekspert glede teh sprememb, pač opazujem iz
višine. Je pa tudi v Brežicah in okolici, ker občasno mapiram, zginilo kar
nekaj zadev (tudi celotno letališče Cerklje). Pri nekaterih cestah so
pobrisani samo določeni nodi, verjetno ker lastnik ni šel v novo licenco.
Bo pač treba ponovno vrisati, tokrat bo verjetno lažje, ker je dosti več
GPS traceov.

lp Igor

2012/7/22 Bostjan Golez bostjan.go...@gmail.com

 Zdravo,

 dajte mi tole malce razložit. Sem opazil da so določene ceste izginile,
 kako jih najenostavneje spravit nazaj? Pa niso zginle tiste, katere sem
 risal sam...

 Hvala in lp,
 BostiG



 Dne 21. julij 2012 13:00 je talk-si-requ...@openstreetmap.orgnapisal/-a:

 Sporočila za poštni seznam od osebe Talk-si pošljite na
 talk-si@openstreetmap.org

 Za prijavo ali odjavo s seznama prek interneta obiščite
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-si
 prek e-pošte pa pošljite sporočilo z zadevo ali besedilom 'help' na
 talk-si-requ...@openstreetmap.org

 Skrbnika poštnega seznama najdete na naslovu
 talk-si-ow...@openstreetmap.org

 Pri odgovarjanju oblikujete vrstico z Zadevo, tako da bo bolj opisna
 od Re: Vsebina izvlečka za Talk-si...


 Današnje teme:

1. OSM izgube v Sloveniji (Igor Brejc)
2. Re: OSM izgube v Sloveniji (Blaž Lorger)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 23:47:24 +0200
 From: Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com
 To: OSM-Talk-Si talk-si@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: [Talk-si] OSM izgube v Sloveniji
 Message-ID:
 CA+CKBJGO2ix64TbPLAA1O=
 wqridwpceyxvbz9znuvd-eobb...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

 Zdravo,

 Tukaj lahko vidite rezultate čiščenja OSM baze zaradi spremembe licence:

 http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/debug.html?view=botlon=14.82520lat=46.18246zoom=9overlays=overview,bot_point_modified,bot_line_modified_cp,bot_line_modified,bot_point_deleted,bot_line_deleted_cp,bot_line_deleted

 (zoom in za bolj podroben vpogled)
 -- naslednji del --
 HTML priponka je prečiščena...
 URL: 
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-si/attachments/20120720/25773456/attachment-0001.html
 

 --

 Message: 2
 Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 08:50:42 +0200
 From: Blaž Lorger blaz.lor...@krs.net
 To: talk-si@openstreetmap.org
 Subject: Re: [Talk-si] OSM izgube v Sloveniji
 Message-ID: 201207210850.42841.blaz.lor...@krs.net
 Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset=utf-8

 On Friday 20 July 2012 23:47:24 Igor Brejc wrote:
  Zdravo,
 
  Tukaj lahko vidite rezultate čiščenja OSM baze zaradi spremembe licence:
 
 http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/debug.html?view=botlon=14.82520lat=46.1824
 
 6zoom=9overlays=overview,bot_point_modified,bot_line_modified_cp,bot_line
  _modified,bot_point_deleted,bot_line_deleted_cp,bot_line_deleted

 Hm, izgleda da ta prikaz ni ravno 100%. Mislim da objekti, ki sem jih
 popravil
 takoj po prehodu redaction bota, niso označeni. Izjema so tisti objekti,
 ki
 sem jih moral ponovno kreirati. Stari so označeni kot pobrisani.
 Predvidevam da so dan ali dva po prehodu bota pogledali katere objekte je
 nazadnje modificiral bot, niso pa gledali zgodovine objektov. Če je kdo v
 vmesnem času slučajno modificiral objekt, brez da bi popravil škodo, ki
 jo je
 naredil bot, so botove spremembe skrite.



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 Konec Talk-si izvleček, let 38, številka 2
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 --
 ---
 Laze pri Dramljah 23
 3222 Dramlje
 Slovenia
 GPS:http://maps.google.com/maps?f=qsource=s_qhl=engeocode=q=46.2669N+15.3864Esll=46.267033,15.386578sspn=0.001817,0.004823ie=UTF8ll=46.26707,15.386503spn=0.001817,0.004823t=hz=1846.2669N
  15.3864E

 Mobile:+38631349505
 Skype: bostjan_golez

 http://golez.wordpress.com
 http://www.pddramlje.si


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Re: [Talk-si] Ceste, kjer je obveza vinjeta

[Igor Brejc]

Zdravo,

Po moje oznacevanje vinjet za avtoceste v Sloveniji ni smiselno, ker ne gre
za lokacijsko odvisno informacijo - pac vse avtoceste so placljive, ker
pise v zakonu. Mogoce kvecjemu pride v postev pri hitrih cestah, ce so
sploh kaksne, ki niso placljive.

Drugace bo zoprno pri vsakem wayu dodajati in vzdrzevati ta tag.
On Jul 6, 2012 4:38 PM, Damjan Gerl dam...@damjan.net wrote:

 Pozdravljeni! Ali kdo ve če je v OSM-ju že kje označeno za katere ceste je
 obvezna vinjeta? Če še ni ne bi bilo zanimivo dodati tudi ta podatek, morda
 kot toll=yes ali toll=vignette ali kaj podobnega?

 LP,
 Damjan

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Re: [Talk-si] Osebni gps sledilec

[Igor Brejc]

Zdravo,

Sicer nimam nobenih izkušenj s temi napravami, vem pa, da Garmin ponuja
nekaj izdelkov na to temo (sicer bolj za pse, vendar je en model tudi bolj
splošen): https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=209

Splača se prebrat customer reviewe od te enote:
http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-GTU-GPS-Tracking-Unit/dp/B004HFRA7A

Očitno deluje preko mobilnega omrežja, ne vem pa ali lahko daš svojo SIM
kartico noter. Zgleda pa, da ne lovi GPS v zaprtih prostorih, kar bi lahko
bil problem.

Če daš search v google gps dementia tracker se tudi kaj najde:
http://www.google.si/search?hl=slq=gps+dementia+trackeraq=1Laqi=g-L2aql=oq=gps+dementi

lp Igor

2011/6/13 Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com

 Pozdravljeni!

 Tokrat se na vas obračam v imenu prijateljice, katere oče ima že dokaj
 hudo demenco. Zato se jim večkrat dogaja, da zapusti dom in se izgubi,
 ter nato tava naokrog. V teh primerih bi se ga najhitreje našlo po
 koordinatah. Govorna komunikacija v pravem trenutku (klic takoj ko
 zapusti dom) bi tudi morda še pomagala. Problem pa je, da se ne da
 zanašati, da bo s seboj vedno nosil telefon ali podoben sledilec, niti
 da ga bo dosledno vsako noč napolnil in si ga zjutraj spet nadel.
 Zapestnica, ki jo nosijo zaporniki v domačem priporu v ameriških
 filmih bi bila nekak približek idealu (vsaj kar se tehnike tiče, za
 psiho nisem prepričan).

 Zagotovo to ni edinstven primer, a so podobni problemi dovolj poredki,
 da se o njih ne govori na vsakem vogalu in da problematika ni
 komercialno dovolj zanimiva in rešitve širše dostopne.

 Ima kdo od vas (ali vaših znancev) podobno izkušnjo? Kakšno praktično
 priporočilo, nasvet, morda celo rešitev?

 hvala in lp,
 Štefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Live Ticker

[Igor Brejc]

Nice!

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:39 PM, bernhard zwischenbrugger 
b...@datenkueche.com wrote:

 Hi all

 I made an OSM Live Ticker at http://khtml.org -ticker

 The edits are displayed on a slippy map. You can zoom in, out and move the
 map.
 You can also click on the symbols and view the tags.

 Sometimes it's a bit delayed because of a problem with
 delayed minute diffs (http://planet.openstreetmap.org/minute-replicate/)

 Bugreports are welcome.

 have fun

 Bernhard

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Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering street names across several ways

[Igor Brejc]

On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 9:44 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote:

 On 1 July 2010 16:17, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote:
  Rather, you want multiple ways to share a name. This does sound like a
  job for the renderer to me.

 Or you can help things out by putting the name into a relation and
 adding the segments of way as members...


This results in even more complicated situation and even more work to
maintain such data. And even if do you follow this practice, there will
still be huge amounts of legacy data which do not.
I think if two streets share the same name and are adjacent to each other,
it is reasonable for renderers to assume it's the same street.

Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering street names across several ways

[Igor Brejc]

On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote:

 The problem is that if you go to a rule one road, name displayed once,
 you will have to search for the name of the road if the road is very long.


The actual rule is: treat it as a single OSM way and then decide how often
to repeat the name for longer ways.


 This might not be a problem with residential roads on lower zoom levels,
 but it will with e.g. motorways on higher zoom levels.

 Look example [1]. There is no name on the motorway (I've got my browser
 about 1100 pix wide).
 I have deliberately cut a local stream up to make the name render in more
 places.


It's up to the renderer to decide how often to repeat the name. Cutting up
ways just to make it look better for a certain renderer (Mapnik) isn't
really a good practice. And anyway, this depends on the zoom level: once you
zoom into enough, you will still get ways that will be long and with one
label only. And if you zoom out, you won't get _any_ labels, since the split
ways will be too short to show anything.

Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering street names across several ways

[Igor Brejc]

My point is that OSM Mapnik layer (or any other map rendering) is not The
Truth and we should try to avoid adjusting the underlying data just in order
to fix issues like the ones you mentioned. Renderers will improve with time
to be able to better handle such things. And they will behave differently,
so data that seems beautified for one would not be so nice for the other.

And as you said: if you really want a proffesional-like rendering, you can
always render it yourself, produce a vector map and do the manual
postprocessing afterwards.

Igor

 -On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Richard Mann 
richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote:

 I've got situations where a side road name continues across a main
 road, and it looks distinctly odd (must happen all the time in grid
 layouts). I solved the problem by breaking the way at the main road.
 If a renderer wants to be clever and put the sections back together,
 they need to suppress the behaviour when the shared node is also
 shared by a higher-class highway.

 In the St Petersburg example, the root of the problem is long street
 names. Maybe you need to render it yourself in a smaller/narrower
 font.

 Richard


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Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering street names across several ways

[Igor Brejc]

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:54 AM, zve...@textual.ru wrote:



 Is there any plan, or just a thought, to merge ways on a rendering stage to
 display
 more street name labels? If not, why? Is there a renderer which does that?


I have been doing some work on this for Maperitive, but it's not finished.
You should also consider that after merging such ways (when rendering), the
renderer needs to provide a good mechanism for repeating the street label
for very long streets.

Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] Licence of Soviet military topographic maps

[Igor Brejc]

Interesting. A while I ago I did some work on generating relief contours
from Viewfinder's DEM data, basis of which are old Soviet military maps:
http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/viewfinders-dem-data-comparison-with-srtm

Someone then warned me that some of the Viewfinder data stems from Soviet
military topos, these a copyrighted by Roscartographia, still. No
reproduction, no selling etc. We’re not using these data for open projects,
it is avoided for OSM etc… (see the discussion in the comments).

I'd be interested to know what is the real truth: public domain or
Roscartographia?

Igor

2010/6/23 Frédéric Bonifas fredericboni...@gmail.com

 Hi,

 Looking for data sources on Kyrgyzstan, I came across soviet military
 topographic maps. This is for Osh for example :
 http://en.poehali.org/maps/100k--k43-122.html

 According to Wikipedia, it is in the Public domain :
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Maps/Source_materials

 The goal would be to trace over these maps in Openstreetmap.

 Could someone confirm me that these Soviet military topographic maps
 are in the PD ?

 Thanks in advance
 Frédéric

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Re: [OSM-talk] Good book on GIS concepts

[Igor Brejc]

This one is a bit technical, but it's a great resource book:
http://www.spatialanalysisonline.com/
There's even a free Web version, although I recommend buying a printed
version for anyone into GIS

Igor

On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 4:33 PM, sko...@free.fr wrote:

 Hi,

 Would anyone recommend a good book on GIS/Geodesy/etc that could be used to
 understand the underlying concepts behind most GIS applications ?

 I am not looking for 100% theory full of mathematical formulae, but
 ideally, something that explains the main idea behind the concepts
 (projections, layers, coordinate systems, ...) and acronyms (WFS, ..)/
 technologies. In other words, I need something that gives me the big
 picture..

 I am already starting to create my own understanding of these concepts, but
 I am pretty sure things would be smoother if I could just find a good book
 to read :)

 thanks,
 Sami Dalouche

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Re: [OSM-talk] Custom rendering of a small map

[Igor Brejc]

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Gervase Markham gerv-gm...@gerv.net wrote:

 But, not wanting to knock the hard work of you or others, even before I
 looked at making style changes, it seemed fairly clear that the text
 rendering wasn't nearly as nice as Mapnik's.


I know about text rendering problems on Linux. This is a problem with Mono's
implementation of .NET drawing engine. I'll try to improve things in the
future.

Anyway, once the SVG export is done, this will no longer be relevant, since
you'll have a vector image which doesn't depend on any Mono or other stuff
(and also you'll be able to fix any rendering problems manually).

And don't let the command-line tex tbox confuse you, you can still use a
mouse ;)

Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] Custom rendering of a small map

[Igor Brejc]

- Maperitive: it runs on Linux too, and in a few weeks I hope I'll be able
to finish the SVG export functionality.

Regards,
Igor

On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 11:09 AM, Gervase Markham gerv-gm...@gerv.netwrote:

 Hi,

 I'd like to render a map of about a square mile or so of the town of
 Bromley, in Kent, for the information sheet for my wedding in August
 (yay!).
 http://osm.org/go/0EEBWURG
 I want to make the map, then remove a few bits which I don't need and
 add stuff to it like bigger labels on some important POIs like the
 church and the nearest station. I want it to look professional.

 This is just the sort of thing OSM should be good for, or so I hope :-)

 My first effort involved an SVG export of the Mapnik image from the main
 website. This is pretty good; the only problem is that the roads are
 unnecessarily narrow and so the road names are small and hard to read.
 I'd like pretty much that map, except with wider roads and bigger text.
 It would take an age to change it all manually in the SVG. What are my
 options for a custom render?

 - Mapnik: requires an incredible amount of setup, according to the wiki
   page.

 - Osmarender: It's ugly. Sorry, but it is.

 - mapgen.pl: Same.

 - Kosmos: I'm on Linux, and it only really runs on Windows.

 - Cobra: development seems dead.

 - Cartagen: It does road labels square on, which I don't like.

 - Cloudmade: initially, this seemed really promising. They have a
   variety of styles, and I probably could make
   one with wider roads, but the Terms of Service are so long and
   complex, and say don't do anything with this data that isn't your
   own personal use about three times in different ways, so I assume I
   can't use it.

 Any ideas? Is there an online service to which one can submit a Mapnik
 style sheet and get back a rendering of a small area?

 Gerv


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Re: [Talk-si] slovenski zemljevid

[Igor Brejc]

On 4.6.2010 21:40, Damjan Gerli wrote:

 Hvala za informacijo. Na misel mi pride, če bi morda bilo mogoče postaviti
 en server, ki bi oddajal slovensko verzijo rendererja in ki bi bil v
 povezavi s slo-osm. Ne vem koliko je to možno in če je kdo sposoben to
 postaviti in ali obstaja primeren prostor za tak projekt...

 Upam da nisem ustrelil kakšne predebele ;-)

 LP,
 Damjan



To poskušamo že dalj časa, pa nam nekak ne uspe :)
Predvsem je problem dobit kakšen zastonj hosting z dovolj dobro mašino 
in bandwidthom.

Sam dolgoročno planiram, da bi naredil kakšen sajt z mapo, ki bi bila 
hostana preko Amazon S3 (tako delajo na Cloudmade). Seveda pa to ni zastonj.

lp Igor

-- 
http://igorbrejc.net


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Re: [OSM-talk] Extra zoom level needed?

[Igor Brejc]

Hi,

Let me just add one note to John's comments about Maperitive: it already
out of the box supports 19 zoom levels, but you can modify the
configuration and set the max zoom to a higher level:
http://maperitive.net/docs/manual/Advanced_Configuration.html

http://maperitive.net/docs/manual/Advanced_Configuration.htmlIgor

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 2:18 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:

 Have a look at Maperitive.  Because the processing is done on the local
 machine it gives you much more control.  I've been playing with .bat files,
 you can run them from a desktop icon, to select some POIs and display them
 but not others.  Being in Canada I also use the technique to switch the
 display language, only works where the name:fr is available.

 The other thing you can do is render from a local file so no internet
 connection is required.  You do have to change the rules to point to local
 icons though.

 Cheerio John,



 On 17 May 2010 12:44, pavithran pavithra...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 17 May 2010 17:32, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote:
  Now a lot of places are full of pro-mappers, we are doing house numbers,
  shops, football pitch lines...
  Do we need an extra zoom level?

 YES and I was thinking of posting about it but waited because I want
 to learn about simple tiles generation for small area using osmarender
 (where I could set my own zoom level and was suggested by amm at diary
 http://bit.ly/8Z6ieY ) . Openstreetmap could enrich the map experience
 like never before, now that some experienced mappers have started
 mapping shops inside a shopping mall .

 It definitely makes mapping easy in developing areas where most of the
 shops are situated side by side in a small area which is in contrast
 to UK/european shops which occupy large areas .

 Here is a small Tale of two shops : One nice lane in a bazaar of a
 small town I found two bakeries . One lies almost opposite to other .
 The nice bakery is called 'Taj bakery'  other one is 'Golden Bakery '
 Mapnik in a lower zoom level shows it as Golden bakery . I actually
 zoomed to a higher zoom level witha hope to see both bakeries .
 Unfortunately it could show only golden bakery :( Seeing it with data
 only shows the POI .  I stopped mapping all the bazaars because Indian
 streets unfortunately are constructed as bazaars with sometimes
 collection of similar selling item. And I am forced to NOT map
 selectively some shop when I am mapping those bazaars . Selecting some
 shop as important and some shop as not important is very daunting task
 :(  Higher population areas have close knit shops I am wondering why
 someone has not demanded for detailed mapping in those areas.

 Coming to extra processing power  bandwidth  I think its time to move
 ahead . I think that atleast osmarender which has a lower zoom level
 when compared to mapnik and should immediately set to mapnik  zoom
 level ( just a matter of personal liking towards osmarender )




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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM composer not open source?

[Igor Brejc]

On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 12:20 PM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com 
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:


 My only point is that, like sf.net we should not be hosting non free
 software on the osm site (s).


OSM wiki is not a project hosting site, so your analogy is misguided. It's a
collection of information about OSM things, so if you want to make it
relevant, you shouldn't employ censorship. After all, OSM wiki is already
full of advertizing (take a look at the first couple of sentences on the
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Garmin page). As long as information on
the wiki is objective and doesn't try to promote somebody's commercial
interests _directly_, I don't see why non-open source software shouldn't be
mentioned.

The authors of such software should however be aware that placing the
documentation/manuals for their software on the OSM wiki is problematic,
since the license (probably) doesn't allow them to reuse the docs somewhere
else. That's why I decided not to host the docs there for the OSM project
I'm currently working on. And yes, it's not open-source.

Regards,
Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] Contour lines

[Igor Brejc]

On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Steve Hill st...@nexusuk.org wrote:


 I don't think the SRTM contours are accurate enough to use for tracing
 bodies of water - you need to walk the perimeter with a GPS or use aeriel
 photos.


They aren't. There's also another source called SRTM Water Body dataset (
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/schools/sspp/geography/research/emm/geodata/landandwater.html)
but they both are fairly inaccurate.

Regards,
Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] River boundaries , not Post code areas

[Igor Brejc]

 I thought that's why the boundary should move, the river moving means
 the border moves, doesn't it?

 Does it?

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.7682lon=18.8893zoom=12layers=B000FTF
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.991lon=17.329zoom=11layers=B000FTF
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.5381lon=16.3773zoom=13layers=B000FTF

Regards,
Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] River boundaries , not Post code areas

[Igor Brejc]

On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 9:42 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote:

 On 6 April 2010 17:29, Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com wrote:
  Does it?

 From a legal point of view.

 Legally the border between NSW and Vic is the southern bank of the
 Murray River, it was set this way to try and end border disputes
 between the states, however over time the river moves and caused other
 disputes.


I don't know about NSW and Vic case, but in the above cases the official
borders were set as exact geo points, which were in that time based on the
river flow. But when the river moved, it did not affect the borders.
Sometimes the countries then renegotiate a new border, but that's not always
the case.

Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq

[Igor Brejc]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:


 I don't think that will make the we need fixed rules fraction happy.
 We have renderers with fixed rules today - several of them - but that
 kind of fixed rules is not what they are looking for.


Just to make it clear: I'm neither in the fixed rules nor I'll tag the
way I like camp - I try to use tags that I see are popular on Tagwatch (or
on the Wiki page), but I also tag my own for stuff I think I need (like
todo=continue) without resorting to long discussions on the mailing
lists.

And when I'm talking about tagging inconsistencies I'm not talking about
differences in cycleways between Lima and Vancouver. I realize we live in a
diverse world. But tagging boundaries in the same country using several
different approaches doesn't really feel reasonable or useful. Of course I
could go and fix it, but I'm sure I'd get criticized for that, especially
since it's not my home territory.

Regards,
Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq

[Igor Brejc]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 2:31 PM, NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de wrote:



 OSM is quite suitable for any hobby project, but I believe that the
 anarchistic nature and the often controversial and sometimes disputed and
 chaotic tagging are reason enough to deter the use of OSM in any
 professional area where you are talking about warranties.


I have to agree with Nop, up to a point. OSM is a great project and I invest
a lot of my free time in it, but I still think it has a lot of failure
points. The first time I wanted to use OSM data for a professional job, the
data simply failed me. And I'm only talking about generating a high-scale UK
map, not some complex routing application. Even drawing land borders between
England, Scotland and Wales proved to be big PITA because of different
approaches to tagging between the three regions (not to mention that
England's regional boundaries were tagged the same way as the border with
Scotland). I don't whether this has been improved in the meantime.

So you are forced to manually post-process the data, which kind-of
invalidates the whole tagging approach in OSM.
I think this will sooner or later have to be addressed by the OSM community.
Or we will have to build much better mapping applications which will be able
to go around these obstacles.

Best regards,
Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq

[Igor Brejc]

Frederik,

All this is true, but I think we are too concentrated on generating 
content (i.e. mapping) as opposed to actually using this data for some 
meaningful purpose. I guess this is natural, since majority of OSM users 
are mostly map data producers, and only the minority is actively 
involved in map consuming.

My point is that we should listen to people who are trying to use our 
mapping data (both for non-profit and commercially).  After all, isn't 
it the whole point of OSM to produce something useful? Or is just so 
that we can show a nice world map on the main page?

Regards,
Igor

Frederik Ramm wrote:
 Hi,

 NopMap wrote:
   
 OSM is quite suitable for any hobby project, but I believe that the
 anarchistic nature and the often controversial and sometimes disputed and
 chaotic tagging are reason enough to deter the use of OSM in any
 professional area where you are talking about warranties. 
 

 I don't think that the line is between hobby and professional.

 OSM with their volunteers does one kind of mapping, and TeleAtlas with 
 their vans does another kind of mapping. Each has its own distinctive 
 advantages. There are professional users wo spend money on OSM data when 
 they *already have* TeleAtlas data.

 The commercial maps have fixed tagging schemes, minimum quality 
 standards and only accept trained personnel as mappers. They have long 
 turnaround times and cost a lot of money to maintain. At OSM we have no 
 fixed tagging schema, no minimum quality standards, and anyone can map. 
 We have super fast turnaround times and cost nothing to maintain. 
 Different approaches - different results. Not worse or better; different.

 I don't see how you could have the advantages without the disadvantages. 
 Add a fixed tagging scheme and peer review to OSM and you get more 
 quality but less data and longer turnaround times; before long you are 
 TeleAtlas v2.0 and have to charge for maps to pay your mappers because 
 nobody does it for fun any more.

 So, yes, in my eyes the approach is really take it or leave it, and if 
 someone decides he'd rather use TeleAtlas or Navteq then by all means, 
 let him do it. I don't know why Dave F finds this VERY disillusioning; 
 what was his illusion then? For OSM to rule the world? I think the world 
 is much better of with a few map datasets following different approaches 
 that with a one size fits all dataset.

 Bye
 Frederik

   


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[OSM-talk] Using digital tablet for drawing maps

[Igor Brejc]

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about buying a digital tablet and use it for drawing maps in
JOSM/Potlatch/... Has anyone had any experience with digital tablets and GIS
work (or even better - OSM work). I'm considering buying something cheap,
like Wacom Bamboo (link is below), but I don't know if it is really usable
for this kind of work (compared to a mouse). I find the mouse to be too
sensitive and difficult to pinpoint on something (unless I reconfigure it
for mapping work each time, which is tedious).

Thanks in advance,
Igor Brejc

http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Bamboo-Touch-Small-Tablet/dp/B002OOWC3S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=electronicsqid=1264415098sr=8-1
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Re: [OSM-talk] Using digital tablet for drawing maps

[Igor Brejc]

David,

Yes, I noticed this clicking problem with JOSM myself, and it is annoying.
Is it Java or just JOSM-specific problem? In OS (Windows at least), the
mouse-down and mouse-up events are treated separately, so I don't see why it
would be problem if the mouse moves in between.
Anyway, thanks for the info. Looks like I'm going to have to borrow a tablet
and test it out with JOSM before buying.

Igor


On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:01 PM, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.comwrote:

 On 25/01/2010 10:29, Igor Brejc wrote:
  Hi everyone,
 
  I'm thinking about buying a digital tablet and use it for drawing maps
  in JOSM/Potlatch/... Has anyone had any experience with digital tablets
  and GIS work (or even better - OSM work). I'm considering buying
  something cheap, like Wacom Bamboo (link is below), but I don't know if
  it is really usable for this kind of work (compared to a mouse). I find
  the mouse to be too sensitive and difficult to pinpoint on something
  (unless I reconfigure it for mapping work each time, which is tedious).
 
  Thanks in advance,
  Igor Brejc
 
 
 http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Bamboo-Touch-Small-Tablet/dp/B002OOWC3S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=electronicsqid=1264415098sr=8-1
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Bamboo-Touch-Small-Tablet/dp/B002OOWC3S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=electronicsqid=1264415098sr=8-1
 

 I did use a tablet at one point, but I gave up. In principle it should
 be ideal and it is for most drawing and painting programs, and you
 quickly get used to the right button on the pen side and operating menus
 with it.

 It's not the tablet that's the problem - an A6 size one is fine. The
 problem is Java. It seems to insist that for a mouse click to be
 recognized properly the coordinates at the down press have to be the
 same as those at the up-press. With a mouse this is a problem sometimes
 if you nudge it, but with a tablet it is impossible.

 There is a plugin for JOSM which tries to remedy this (by checking if
 the up and down are within a certain distance of each other). It wasn't
 right and I hacked it a bit, but it still isn't quite right because
 there is often a delay before sensing mouse clicks - if you are
 creating a way, you frequently click-click-click quite fast along the
 track, and JOSM quickly gets behind and the mouse tracking gets
 confused. This happens using a mouse as well and is very frustrating,
 but it is much worse with a tablet in my experience.

 So I think more could be done in JOSM to work around wjhat are
 essentially failings in Java's mouse handling, but it is not that great
 at the moment. It's not that you can't use it, you just have to be so
 much more deliberate and patient in entering clicks (and you do have to
 have the nearclick plugin)

 David

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Re: [OSM-talk] Using digital tablet for drawing maps

[Igor Brejc]

Cool, good to know.

Igor

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Chris Browet c...@semperpax.com wrote:

 Funny you speak about that...

 I recently found back my ages old Wacom Tablet and tried it with
 Merkaartor.
 Looks like Qt has some kind of builtin supoort for tablets (or was it
 Windows 7?) but it worked out-of-the-box (in tablet mode, not mouse
 emulation).

 That made me add a hand grabbing icon to Merkaartor, just for niceness ;-)

 - Chris -

 On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:29, Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I'm thinking about buying a digital tablet and use it for drawing maps in
 JOSM/Potlatch/... Has anyone had any experience with digital tablets and GIS
 work (or even better - OSM work). I'm considering buying something cheap,
 like Wacom Bamboo (link is below), but I don't know if it is really usable
 for this kind of work (compared to a mouse). I find the mouse to be too
 sensitive and difficult to pinpoint on something (unless I reconfigure it
 for mapping work each time, which is tedious).

 Thanks in advance,
 Igor Brejc


 http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Bamboo-Touch-Small-Tablet/dp/B002OOWC3S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=electronicsqid=1264415098sr=8-1


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Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace

[Igor Brejc]

You can also use Oregon's Waypoint Averaging function to make more accurate
positioning of waypoints. But you need to do this at different times (say on
you next hiking trip when you cross the same waypoint) for this to be really
effective. With couple of accurate waypoints it is easier to detect track
inaccuracies.

Igor

On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Michael Hufer michael.hu...@gmx.de wrote:

 On the Oregon 550(t) you will find the satellite almanac-screen if you
 touch
 the five-bars satellite reception indicator.

Micha H.

  On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, Craig Wallace wrote:
   You can check the satellite screen on the Garmin. It should show an
   estimated position accuracy.
   Also, you can look at which satellites its receiving. If its locked on
   to a reasonable number of satellites in a decent spread across the sky,
   you can be fairly confident in its accuracy.
 
  The Oregon 550 lacks a pictorial representation of the almanac, and only
   has five bars telling you whether it thinks it has good PDOP or not.
  Or it might, but as I've had mine 8 days , the same as Steve has, and it
 is
   in a menu I haven't found yet ;)
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Osm2SpatiaLite ?

[Igor Brejc]

Hi,

I've implemented importing of OSM data into SpatiaLite DB and integrated it
successfully with Kosmos map rendering code. SpatiaLite OSM database can be
quite fast, but I had to learn a trick or two to reach good performance. I
even managed to import the latest UK data into it and it didn't complain too
much.

I'm planning to release this in Kosmos v3, hopefully sometimes in the spring
of 2010.

Igor

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Jukka Rahkonen
jukka.rahko...@mmmtike.fiwrote:

 Hi,

 Has anybody written a tool like osm2pgsql for importing OSM data directly
 into
 SpatiaLite database?  Alternatively, are there plans to make an OSM driver
 for
 ogr2ogr?

 -Jukka Rahkonen-


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Re: [OSM-talk] Isn't it time for a higher zoom level?

[Igor Brejc]

Richard, thanks for mentioning Kosmos :)
Yes, Kosmos draws OSM data on-the-fly and it supports continuous zoom 
levels (I've limited it up to zoom level 18 because of some .NET drawing 
engine problems on higher zooms). There are two drawbacks however: it 
runs on Windows only and the latest released version is getting old. But 
I'm working (hard?) on the v3 version which I hope will be easier to use 
and more powerful. And if I get the time, I'll try to make it Linux (and 
Mac)-friendly.

Igor

Richard Fairhurst wrote:
 Peter Childs wrote:
   If we had an application, that could read osm and render on the fly
   we could have any zoom level we like, including zoom levels
   between zoom levels, (ie vector graphics)
  
   In theory Potlatch already does some of this, buts it written to enter
   data not render the map, so its not the purpose it was meant for.

 Potlatch 2 will have a fully-fledged rendering engine with stylesheets 
 and everything.

 This bit's already written and you can try it at:
   http://www.geowiki.com/halcyon/

 There's also a similar, JavaScript-driven rendering engine called Cartagen:
   http://www.cartagen.org/

 And if you're on Windows, Kosmos is worth looking at.

 cheers
 Richard

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Re: [Talk-si] vzdrževanje SI:Garmin_Map

[Igor Brejc]

Zdravo,

Žal se je izkazalo, da je licenca free verzije cgpsmapperja v konfliktu 
z OSM licenco (ker cgpsmapper dovoljuje samo nekomercialno distribucijo 
narejenih map). To pomeni, da ni mogoče distribuirati Garmin OSM map, ki 
so narejene z orodjem GroundTruth v kombinaciji s free verzijo 
cgpsmapperja.

To pa seveda pomeni, da bom moral umakniti slovenske Garmin zemljevide s 
svojega hostinga. Žal.

lp Igor

p.s.

* link na cgpsmapper licenco: http://cgpsmapper.com/download/licence.txt
* link na diskusijo na to temo:
  
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:GroundTruth#Publishing_maps_made_by_GroundTruth



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[OSM-talk] England, Wales, Scotland borders

[Igor Brejc]

Hi,

For days now I've been trying to figure out how I could render borders 
between England, Wales and Scotland using OSM data, but I keep stumbling 
into same issues. Frankly, I think the way these things are tagged in UK 
is a mess (I don't know what the situation is in other places):

   1. Borders between these countries are tagged with the same
  admin_level=4 as that of subdivisions inside England (example:
  North East England, http://osm.org/go/evykef-?relation=151164).
  Now I'm not a constitutional expert, but I think Wales and
  Scotland represent different level of territorial division than
  just a collection of England's counties. And anyway, the
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative
  states level 4 is used for England/Scotland/Wales border and
  doesn't mention anything else.
   2. There is no way to render JUST land borders. Maritime borders
  (territorial waters) are tagged exactly the same way as their
  continental counterparts. And even if you accept this limitation
  and decide to render territorial waters they are usually cut off
  in the available UK OSM extracts.
   3. England's coast is also tagged as a border, but Wales' and
  Scotland's isn't.

Please take my criticism as a constructive one. I'm trying to use OSM 
data in a real-life situation and I think borders are some of the more 
important data, since they are usually visible in smaller-scale maps 
(but usually _without_ marked territorial waters). The way UK's borders 
are now tagged, the only way to render them usefully would be to 
manually collect a list of OSM ways' IDs.

Of course I could go and edit these things myself, but since I'm not 
usually covering this part of the world, I don't want to step on other 
people's toes :)

Best regards,
Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag dead-ends and how to distinguish them from incomplete ways

[Igor Brejc]

Hi,

I suppose I'm the culprit for the todo=continue and todo=junction 
tags, since I've used them internally for some time and then added them 
to GroundTruth hiking rules once I developed GroundTruth.

These tags are not primarily rendering-oriented, they are just pointers 
(for me and anyone else who cares) that certain ways were not explored 
(from the todo=continue point onwards) or that there is an unexplored 
junction on the footway. The area I'm mapping is full full full of these 
and I cannot cover them all in one go, so I need a way to mark them for 
future reference.

Regards,
Igor

Dave F. wrote:
 You see, this is where I get /really /confused

 I see no reference to 'todo' or 'continue' in the general OSM wiki.
 In the Groundtruth wiki page they're highlighted red, saying there there 
 no reference page.

 I'm repeatedly told don't tag for the renderers

 Yet it appears in this case the renderers are telling the mappers what 
 to do.
 The previous post implies these tags will only work in Groundtruth renders.

 What am I not understanding?

 At the moment it looks like the left hand is deliberately not
 telling the right what is going on.

 I fully support the endeavours of OSM but the hierarchical stature of it 
 leaves me baffled at the moment.

 Oh,  Liz, if you're reading. please don't post to tell me some of the 
 'regulars' have anarchy symbols on the blog page as if that some how 
 makes it all OK.

 I hope you can all show me the light.

 Cheers
 Dave F.

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Re: [OSM-talk] [english 94%] Re: How to tag dead-ends and how to distinguishthem from incomplete ways

[Igor Brejc]

Heh, I lost myself on Corfu once, too... Way back in '97, using a paper 
map. Those were the good old student days...

Igor

k...@vielevisels wrote:
 Hi Igor,
 the tags are great! If all renderers would show them (and in 
 combination with the noexit-tag), we could improve quality and 
 confidence in OSM.
 After my summer holiday in corfu with different paper maps, which 
 proved to be very inaccurate (missing villages, missing junctions and 
 roads, ...) I lost confidence when I left the big roads. OSM was far 
 from complete, and the todo and noexit- tag would have helped me quite 
 a bit (for my own mapping, and by others). Just think of counting 
 junctions to your next turning off, or following a track which ends 
 somewhere in the olive forests...
 Kai

 - Original Message - From: Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com
 To: Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com
 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:35 PM
 Subject: [english 94%] Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag dead-ends and how to 
 distinguishthem from incomplete ways


 Hi,

 I suppose I'm the culprit for the todo=continue and todo=junction
 tags, since I've used them internally for some time and then added them
 to GroundTruth hiking rules once I developed GroundTruth.

 These tags are not primarily rendering-oriented, they are just pointers
 (for me and anyone else who cares) that certain ways were not explored
 (from the todo=continue point onwards) or that there is an unexplored
 junction on the footway. The area I'm mapping is full full full of these
 and I cannot cover them all in one go, so I need a way to mark them for
 future reference.

 Regards,
 Igor

 Dave F. wrote:
 You see, this is where I get /really /confused

 I see no reference to 'todo' or 'continue' in the general OSM wiki.
 In the Groundtruth wiki page they're highlighted red, saying there 
 there
 no reference page.

 I'm repeatedly told don't tag for the renderers

 Yet it appears in this case the renderers are telling the mappers what
 to do.
 The previous post implies these tags will only work in Groundtruth 
 renders.

 What am I not understanding?

 At the moment it looks like the left hand is deliberately not
 telling the right what is going on.

 I fully support the endeavours of OSM but the hierarchical stature 
 of it
 leaves me baffled at the moment.

 Oh,  Liz, if you're reading. please don't post to tell me some of the
 'regulars' have anarchy symbols on the blog page as if that some how
 makes it all OK.

 I hope you can all show me the light.

 Cheers
 Dave F.

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Re: [Talk-si] GADM

[Igor Brejc]

Uh, res je slaba :). No, vseeno hvala za trud

lp Igor

2009/9/24 Damjan Gerli dam...@damjan.net

 Sem malo pogledal in za Slovenijo / občine je kvaliteta slaba. Tu si lahko
 ogledate screenshot: http://www.damjan.net/tmp/SVN_adm_2.png

 LP,
 Damjan

  -Izvirno sporočilo-
  Od: talk-si-boun...@openstreetmap.org
  [mailto:talk-si-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namesto Igor Brejc
  Poslano: 23. september 2009 23:13
  Za: Talk-si@openstreetmap.org
  Zadeva: [Talk-si] GADM
 
  Ravnokar zasledil:
  http://freegeographytools.com/2009/free-vector-country-borders
 -administrative-boundaries-and-soon-morehttp://freegeographytools.com/2009/free-vector-country-borders%0A-administrative-boundaries-and-soon-more
 
  Preveril sem in imajo tudi slovenske občinske meje, ne vem pa
  kakšna je
  natančnost in licenca. Če se kdo želi igrati, naj preveri...
 
  lp Igor
 
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Re: [Talk-si] Dovoljenje za uvoz meje

[Igor Brejc]

Zdravo,

Jaz bi samo opozoril, da sem pred časom uporabil staro mejo z 
Italijo, da označim en del meje Triglavskega narodnega parka (dodal sem 
nov way za to), tam kjer pač poteka po državni meji 
(http://osm.org/go/0IaIuXr--). Torej ko boste združevali, bo verjetno 
potrebno urediti tudi ta way (lahko ga tudi jaz).

Mogoče pa se to da rešiti tudi z relacijo, ne vem?

lp Igor

Damjan Gerli wrote:
 Mislim da je prišel čas, da poskusimo z urejanjem oz. združevanjem meje. Tu
 mislim predvsem na italijansko in avstrijsko stran. Mislil sem, da bi lahko
 na italijansko listo talk-it posredoval novico o Slo meji in da bi skupaj
 pregledali katera od dveh obstoječih mej bolje ustreza realnosti in, nekaj
 časa potem, glede na odzive, kjer je možno terenske oglede itd., bi začeli
 unificirati mejo, da bi na koncu dobili le eno. Podobno bi lahko kdo
 poskušal na avstrijski strani. Kaj menite o tem?

 Prosil bi tudi, če podate vaše mnenje (in izsledke) glede obeh verzij
 slo-ita meje: če ste morda zasledili da je ena boljša ali bolj realna od
 druge, zakaj in kje? Osebno lahko povem, da je za ta del (mejni prehod
 Šempolaj-Gorjansko):
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.779302lon=13.700868zoom=18layers=B00
 0FTF , Gursova različica v skadu z realnostjo.
 Tu pa je večja neskladnost:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.20988lon=13.4174zoom=16layers=B000FT
 F


 Moje naslednje vprašanje pa je, če bi morda lahko GURS zaprosili tudi za
 dovoljenje za uvoz mej občin? Mislite da bi lahko tudi to uspelo?

 LP,
 Damjan G.



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Re: [Talk-si] Dovoljenje za uvoz meje

[Igor Brejc]

Stefan Baebler wrote:
 provokacijo. Ali pa vsaj označiti, da gre za disputed territory
 
 Provokacija bi lahko bila tudu obstoječa sredinska črta... :)
   
Se strinjam, zato bi celotno območje označili kot disputed (npr. nekaj v 
stilu http://meja.kje.si/files/MAIN6.jpg). Je pa tudi res, da se v 
kartografiji pogosto označuje tudi dejanska line of control, ki pa je...?

   
 Glede meje na morju sem jo jaz označil kot Border SI-HR in Border
 SI-IT. Ali obstaja tudi tu kakšen poseben tag?
   
 Morske meje:
 maritime=yes

   
In tista meja ob/na Savudrijski obali - je to morska ali kopenska meja? ;)

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Re: [Talk-si] Dovoljenje za uvoz meje

[Igor Brejc]

Sem videl, da si se ze zmenil glede morebitnih konfliktov pri SLO-CRO
meji... Super :)

lpi

2009/8/23 Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com

 Ha, pri ogledu obstoječih relacij [1] sem opazil svežo južno mejo,
 uvoženo iz wikimedie, s prošnjo po izboljšavi:

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39438746
 Urejeno ob: nedelja, 23. avgust 2009 20:02 +
 Uredil: mvrban
 Različica:  1
 V paketu sprememb:  2234718
 Oznake:
 admin_level = 2
 boundary = administrative
 left:country = Slovenia
 name = Border SI-HR
 note = rough estimate in some places, please refine
 right:country = Croatia
 source = WIkimedia recif map

 In avtorjev vnos v dnevnik:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvrban/diary/7626

 lp,
 Štefan

 [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/16483 in
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/16438



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Re: [Talk-si] Označevanje delno zaraščenih poti

[Igor Brejc]

Zdravo,

Jaz sem za podobne zadeve uporabljal trail_visibility (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Key:trail_visibility ).
Problem pri vseh teh tagih je, da iz vsega rata mišmaš in je kasneje težko
narediti kakšno pametno pravilo ko hočeš narisati karto (npr. za Garmina ali
na računalniku), ki bi takšne manj prehodne poti risala drugače od
normalnih.
En moj poskus v to smer:
http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/making-my-own-hiking-map-with-kosmos

lp Igor

2009/8/19 Miha miha.urban...@gmail.com

 Pred kratkim so odobrili 
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:smoothnessopcija impassable izgleda 
 prava. Se nisem uporabljaj, zgolj tracktype in
 surface. Primer je pot po S strani grebena iz Molnika na Orle, kjer je kar
 nekaj vegetacije in prevrnjenih dreves, ki tam lezijo ze leta, ampak super
 singlca.

 Kolesarske (uporabi direktno http://www.opencyclemap.org/ oz. Open Map
 layer na glavni OSM Map) - renderiranje je precej manj azurno kot Mapnik in
 Osmarender, pa tudi server je precej bolj pocasen:

 highway=residential/primary/...
 cycleway=track (za loceno stezo)/lane (za pas na voziscu) oz. opposite_*
 (glej http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway)

 Zal je le ena kategorija za obe strani ulice. Jaz v tem primeru uporabim
 nizjo kategorijo (brez oz. lane).

 Poglej si npr. Celovsko mimo Tivolija (
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.05753lon=14.506zoom=15layers=00B0FTF),


 LP,

 Miha.

 2009/8/19 Martin Vuk mrcin@gmail.com

 Živijo,

 V naših koncih je veliko poti delno zaraščenih, tako da je kak odsek bolj
 ali manj goste robido iz katerega prideš ves popraskan. Meni se zdi škoda,
 da teh poti ne bi vnesel v OSM, ker so sicer lahko zelo lepe in uporabne.
 Zanima pa me, ali obstaja kaka značka, s katero bi označil, da je pot
 zaraščena ali težje prehodna. Na wikiju nisem našel nič pametnega razen v
 kostariki je na voljo tag unpassable_in_wet_season.
 Če se malo pošalim, bi bila na primorskem najbolj uporabna značka
 robida=yes, v hribih pa ruševje=yes.

 Pa še nekaj, kako se vnaša kolesarske steze, ki so ob velikih vpadnicah in
 so fizično ločene od ceste (Dunajska, Celovška)? Se naredi novo pot ali se
 enostavno doda cycleway značko?

 LP Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag giant acorn?

[Igor Brejc]

Hi,

I usually tag it as:

tourism=attraction
name=...
description=

Some other annotations (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Annotation) can also be
useful.

Regards,
Igor

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Kate maps2w...@gmail.com wrote:

 At the last DC mapping party in Silver Spring, Maryland, I came across
 a giant acorn that should be marked on OSM, but not sure the best way
 to tag it:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/kmf164/3814667470/

 Also, how we should tag attractions like the world's largest
 strawberry in Strawberry Point, Iowa:

 http://www.roadsideamerica.com/salad/strawberry.html

 -Kate

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[OSM-talk] GPX on OSM slippymap?

[Igor Brejc]

Hi,

This has probably been asked before, but I couldn't find anything on google.

Is there a way to display an uploaded GPX on the OSM slippymap? Something
similar to how you can highlight an OSM way, node or relation:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=31904301

I took some friends on a hiking tour and I wanted to send them a simple URL
with the indicated track, since I've already uploaded the GPX for mapping
purposes.

Regards,
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Re: [OSM-talk] GPX on OSM slippymap?

[Igor Brejc]

Thanks Nic!

Regards,
Igor

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello Igor,

 You can go to gpsies.com and give it the URL for the GPX file e.g.
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/trace/475187/data
 After it renders you can choose the OSM slippy map.

 Regards,
 Nic

 On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 This has probably been asked before, but I couldn't find anything on
 google.

 Is there a way to display an uploaded GPX on the OSM slippymap? Something
 similar to how you can highlight an OSM way, node or relation:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=31904301

 I took some friends on a hiking tour and I wanted to send them a simple
 URL with the indicated track, since I've already uploaded the GPX for
 mapping purposes.

 Regards,
 Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] GPX on OSM slippymap?

[Igor Brejc]

Great, this is something I was hoping for. Although I couldn't find the 
way to show GPX traces uploaded to OSM, so I guess I would have to put 
them on my own web server like you did?

Regards,
Igor

Rejo Zenger wrote:
 ++ 10/08/09 13:02 +0200 - Igor Brejc:
   
 Is there a way to display an uploaded GPX on the OSM slippymap?  
 Something similar to how you can highlight an OSM way, node or 
 relation: http://
 www.openstreetmap.org/?way=31904301

 I took some friends on a hiking tour and I wanted to send them a simple URL
 with the indicated track, since I've already uploaded the GPX for mapping
 purposes.
 

 I have made a small script (based on the documentation on the wiki) that 
 allows you to quickly render a GPX file on an OSM slippy map. 

 To use this, append the URL to the GPX file at:

   https://rejo.zenger.nl/topo/osm/?fn=[url-to-gpx-file]

 That's it. 

 For example:

   
 https://rejo.zenger.nl/topo/osm/?fn=http://insecure.rejo.zenger.nl/gps/2009-04-18.gpx

 If that works and you want to include it into some webpage, use:

   iframe src=https://rejo.zenger.nl/topo/osm/?fn=[url-of-track]; 
   width=[width-of-embedded-image] height=[height-of-embedded-image] 
   frameborder=0/iframe

 You may add some variables to the URL which adjust the rendering of the 
 GPX track on the Openstreetmap. By adding sc=blacksw=10so=0.4 you 
 would set the track to appear as a thick black and highly transparant, 
 where the default is a medium thick, red and half-transparant line.

 There is some more information at:

   https://rejo.zenger.nl/topo/embed-osm-and-track-in-webpage.php

 And there is some background information at:

   https://rejo.zenger.nl/topo/howto-deploy-your-own-osm-slippy-map.php


   
 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Korea users

[Igor Brejc]

What's even more interesting is that even North Korea isn't completely
blank: http://osm.org/go/55eX1@

Regards,
Igor


On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Jeffrey Martin dogs...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've noticed a lot of new data on Korea.
 Who is working on Korea and is there a separate email list?

 --
 Jeffrey John Martin
 dogs...@gmail.com

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Re: [Talk-si] meje in zakoni]

[Igor Brejc]

Zdravo Ales,

Zanimiv pristop, se popolnoma strinjam. Mogoce kasneje najdemo se kaksno
drugo open-source karto z boljso resolucijo, pa tisto uvozimo naknadno.
Edino bi pripomnil, da je treba vrisati le manjkajoco mejo s Hrvasko, ker so
ostale ze vrisane iz drugih (verjetno bolj natancnih) virov.

Strinjam se tudi s Stefanom glede groznje GURS-u :)
Kar se tice Hrvatov, pa se vedno lahko dodajo tudi svojo razlicico meje,
bo pac dvojna.

lp Igor

2009/8/6 Ales rom gab...@gmail.com

 Pozdrav vsem kartografom.

 Tudi sam sem se že pred časom oglasil na listi z vprašanjem v zvezi z mejo.
 V zvezi z objavljeno .shp datoteko na spletni strani GURS sem jim tudi
 poslal pisno vprašanje o možnosti uporabe omenjene datoteke v
 Openstreetmap.org
 Odgovor, je bil, da jo lahko uporabimo v skladu z njihovimi pogoji uporabe,
 kar pa po mojem mnenju ni dovolj za neposreden uvoz.
 Mejo s Hrvaško sem sam narisal na naslednji način:
 1. Iz wikipedije sem naložil zemljevid Slovenije
 http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Slovenia_map.png. Zemljevid je del UN
 Maps in če prav razumem, je konkretna slika uporabna brez omejitev. Tudi
 ločljivost slike je precej dobra.
 2. Sliko sem uvozil v brezplačni program  *GPS TrackMaker*
 http://www.gpstm.com/ in jo poravnal v koordinatni sistem.
 3. Po meji sem posnel GPX file, ki sedaj čaka na uvoz v Openstreetmap.
 Verjamem, da je to trenutno edini legalni način vrisa meje iz kakšne
 predloge.
 Ocenjujem, da bo natančnost tako narisane meje nekje okoli 200 m. Vsekakor
 ne bo mogoče zajeti prav vsake parcele, vendar pa sem prepričan, da mejo
 potrebujemo. Sploh ne za to, da bi se ločili od Hrvatov, temveč da bi končno
 lahko videli, svojo statistiko pri projektu. Ponekje nam pomagajo reke
 (predvsem zelo dolga Kolpa :-)  Pričakujem vaše komentarje. Če ne bo
 kakšnega res negativnega odziva ali argumenta proti, bom mejo uvozil v v
 nekaj dneh.

 Hvala, in lep pozdrav,

 Aleš Rom

 2009/7/28 Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com

 Forwardam na listo :)

 lpi

 Oj!

 Kakor sem jaz pred časom gledal so občine v zakonu definirane kot
 skupine naselij, ki spadajo v posamezno občino.
 Kje so definirane natančne meje teh naselij pa nisem šel raziskovat.
 Najbrž so definirane vsaj v zemljiški knjigi (javna listina!), vendar
 jih je od tam malo težje prečrpati, ponovna raba (objava) pa je
 verjetno spet nekako omejena (ker kataster vsebuje tudi osebne
 podatke).

 Ve kdo še za kak drug vir definicije mej naselij?

 lp,
 Štefan

 2009/7/28 Igor Brejc
  Zdravo,
 
  Da malo oživim diskusijo na naši listi. Včeraj sem začel vrisovati meje
  Triglavskega NP (približno) na osnovi starih kart, potem pa sem se
 spomnil,
  da so te meje tako ali tako določene z zakonom
  (http://www.tnp.si/razumeti/C65), kar naj bi načeloma pomenilo (po moji
  laični presoji), da so podatki o poteku meje public domain. To pa naj bi
  pomenilo, da jih lahko svobodno uporabljamo v OSM, ali pač?
 
  Enaka situacija bi lahko bila pri državni meji: sicer nisem našel
 točnega
  zakona v Uradnem listu, vendar naj bi državna meja bila določena z
 zunanjimi
  mejami občin. Meje občin pa so tudi določene z zakonom. Torej bi
 teoretično
  spet lahko to definicijo uporabili pri vnašanju meje v OSM. Pa tudi
  občinskih mej, če bi se komu dalo.
 
  Kaj pravite?
 
  lp Igor
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM TrustPoints

[Igor Brejc]

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 Ie. in Montreal someone accidentally moved a bunch of stuff (a newbie) it
 was reported on the talk-ca list, they messaged that user so to see if it
 was a bot or a person.  And it was a person, who made an error, then work
 begins to learn how to un-do the edit.  (Personally i don't know how, but
 it's easy to find out)  ... just ask :-)    and when i added a bunch of
 river names and accently had them tagged as towns, as soon as it got
 rendered someone told me about it.  (knowing its a test area... but it still
 got fixed)


Unfortunately not all of the places in the world are blessed with a large
community and not all of them follow talk-* lists (not even the local ones).
In fact I would say that (from my experience) most of them do not. And I
would expect that most newbies that want to contribute to OSM start by
clicking on the edit tab, not by subscribing to any particular mailing list.
So errors (deliberate or not) can be left unnoticed for quite some time in
these places.
I'm not saying we need a complex guarding system against changing stuff, but
some kind of a simple mechanism for protecting against common mistakes (e.g.
moving whole ways etc) wouldn't be bad. And if that's somehow related to
experience points, so what? You cannot drive a bus with an ordinary
driver's license (at least not in my country) ;)

Igor
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Re: [OSM-talk] best GPS for trekking

[Igor Brejc]

Joe Richards wrote:
 What's the best way to load OSM or convert maps on the Garmins, and ideally 
 include terrain heights, possibly overlay information from other sources so 
 that I can get some useful info in areas where OSM coverage is not (yet!) 
 that great?

   
If you need relief contours on your Garmin, you could try GroundTruth 
(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GroundTruth) - it generates contours 
from NASA's SRTM data (you'll get contours like these: 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=29.817lon=85.091zoom=10layers=00B0FTF). 
There are some holes in the data though, so don't rely too much on them.

You can then combine these contour maps with other Garmin maps (contour 
maps are transparent).

Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] best GPS for trekking

[Igor Brejc]

Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote:
 You could then have tracks at
 1 sec interval for the whole of your trek.

   
I think 5 sec interval when walking is quite enough - realistically 
that's less than 7 m of distance between two points. The problem with 
Garmins (at least eTrex) is that they only really use unit's internal 
RAM for storing tracks and they store up to 10,000 points there. When 
storing tracks on SD cards, Garmins do a lot of simplifying, so the 
tracks end up being useless.

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Re: [OSM-talk] best GPS for trekking

[Igor Brejc]

Lambertus wrote:
 Igor Brejc wrote:
 I think 5 sec interval when walking is quite enough - realistically 
 that's less than 7 m of distance between two points. The problem with 
 Garmins (at least eTrex) is that they only really use unit's internal 
 RAM for storing tracks and they store up to 10,000 points there. When 
 storing tracks on SD cards, Garmins do a lot of simplifying, so the 
 tracks end up being useless.


 This is not the case with Vista HCx and 60CSx when the settings are 
 correct:
 In the track menu goto Setup
 - Enable the Wrap When Full option
 Goto Data Card Setup menu
 - Enable Log Track To Data Card option

 Now you can log the raw trackpoints to the SD-card practically forever.


You're right - I've just compared the GPX from the internal memory 
(Vista Cx) with the one from the SD card and they seem to be exactly the 
same. Hmmm I'm SURE I viewed these a way back and they were all 
mangled You learn new things every day.

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[OSM-talk] GroundTruth v1.3 - Garmin maps with relief contours

[Igor Brejc]

Hello everybody,

GroundTruth, a mapmaking software for Gamin GPS units, has a new 
version. GroundTruth can now generate relief contours from SRTM data 
using the Isohypse Binary File (IBF) format. The format enables much 
more compact storage of contours (up to 100 times smaller than using OSM 
XML files).

If you're interested, here are some links you can check out:
- http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/groundtruth-v13
- 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GroundTruth_For_Dummies#Generating_Maps_With_Relief_Contours
- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Isohypse_Binary_File
- http://www.flickr.com/photos/28786...@n03/tags/groundtruth/ - contains 
various screenshots taken from GroundTruth maps

I'll be releasing a C# library for manipulating IBF files soon.

Enjoy,

Igor

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[OSM-talk] GroundTruth 1.2

[Igor Brejc]

Hello,

Just to let you know that a new version of GroundTruth is here. It 
contains some bugfixes and minor improvements. You can read more on 
http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/groundtruth-12

Cheers,
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM 3D, featured image

[Igor Brejc]

MP wrote:
 But it could be nice image of what can be done, so I think we should
 get one nice image from them to featured images. Maybe it'll inspire
 someone to produce similar tool, but an opensource one.

 Martin
   
Hi,

I was inspired some time ago 
(http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-3d-short-video), but 
with all the other stuff I'm working on, I just haven't found the time 
to implement this properly.

Igor

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[OSM-talk] Kosmos 2.4

[Igor Brejc]

Hello everybody,

A new version of Kosmos is out. It's just a bugfix release, the new 
features will be available in the proper version 2.5 which will be 
available soon: http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/kosmos-24-bugfix-release

Bye,
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[OSM-talk] GroundTruth, a new mapmaking tool for Garmins - released

[Igor Brejc]

Hello everybody,

I'm pleased to announce the first release of GroundTruth, a new tool for 
creating Garmin maps using OpenStreetMap data. You can find more 
information on my blog post: 
http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/groundtruth-released

The manual hasn't been written yet, this is the next task I'm going to 
do, hopefully it will be finished in a few days. You can find some basic 
usage information on the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GroundTruth

Best regards,
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on Garmin - raster tiles?

[Igor Brejc]

BTW if you mean ugly as in ugly icons, you can create your own by defining
a TYP file. Just don't expect too much from a 24x24 bitmap

Igor

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:05 PM, Gervase Markham gerv-gm...@gerv.netwrote:

 Igor Brejc wrote:
  What kind of a problem are you having with POIs? What do you mean by
  useful? I'm wondering because I'm working right now on POIs for
  GroundTruth.

 Actually, it's not as bad as I thought. They didn't show on the zoom
 level I was using, and some I expected to be there aren't actually in
 the data yet.

 But it's still fairly ugly :-)

 Gerv


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on Garmin - raster tiles?

[Igor Brejc]

Gervase Markham wrote:
 When I heard about the possibility of OSM on Garmin, I imagined
 something like the Mapnik Slippy Map on my GPS screen. Now I have a
 Legend HCx, it turns out that I get the Garmin vector rendering with OSM
 data behind it. This is clearly much better than nothing, but does the
 gmapsupp.img format support stuffing in a load of raster tiles, or is it
 vector data only? (Obviously, you'd lose the ability to route with raster.)

 Gerv
   
IMHO converting OSM vector data into raster images and then showing them 
on a Garmin unit would mean losing a lot of quality and speed, not to 
mention how much more memory card space such maps would consume. And, as 
you mentioned, you loose the ability to select map objects.
Bitmaps on Garmin would be nice for data which is originally stored as 
bitmaps (like satellite imagery) or for hill shading. I'm working on a 
new mapmaker tool for Garmin maps 
(http://igorbrejc.net/development/continuous-integration/groundtruth-a-new-garmin-mapmaking-tool).
 
I haven't planned any support for bitmaps, but now it got me into 
thinking - maybe I'll add it after all ;)

Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM on Garmin - raster tiles?

[Igor Brejc]

Gervase Markham wrote:
 Igor Brejc wrote:
   
 IMHO converting OSM vector data into raster images and then showing them 
 on a Garmin unit would mean losing a lot of quality and speed, not to 
 mention how much more memory card space such maps would consume.
 

 Could be. But they'd look a heck of a lot nicer, and have useful POIs on
 them. (Perhaps I could get better POIs by working out how to tweak the
 current compilation process...)

 Gerv

   
What kind of a problem are you having with POIs? What do you mean by 
useful? I'm wondering because I'm working right now on POIs for 
GroundTruth.

Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] http://openstreetmap.org not working?

[Igor Brejc]

It didn't work for me, either... Now it works OK

Igor

Peter Miller wrote:
 Should the URL http://openstreetmap.org/ work?

 I think I used to use it but today it just hangs and never returns  
 anything.

 For most of the day I thought it was that the servers were still down  
 but I have now noticed that they do work from 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html



 Regards,


 Peter



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Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?

[Igor Brejc]

How about covering your area with land use data using yahoo/landsat? 
It's something I do occasionally at the end of the work day when I'm 
totally exhausted - it's a nice dumb work which helps my brain turn off. 
And it comes handy for various hiking maps (example of my area: 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.5045lon=15.534zoom=12layers=0B00FTF).

Anyway, I find mapping footpaths in forests much more interesting than 
plain old residential streets and roads - fewer people tend to cover 
them and sometimes it turns out be a real adventure - getting lost or 
meeting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wild_Boar_Habbitat_3.jpg

Not to mention the health benefits ;)

Igor

Donald Allwright wrote:

 At 9:00am on a Sunday morning, the meaning of no cycling on urban
 footpaths mysteriously disappears :-)

 Unfortunately the mud doesn't, which if Saturday is anything to go by 
 would have been a bit too much for my non-mountain bike :-)

 The real challenge as has been pointed out is the white space without a
 nearby contributor. Especially in the sparsely populated locations of our
 planet

 Last winter I spent many dark evenings tracing the jungle rivers and 
 mountain lakes in Peru from the yahoo satellite images. The vast 
 majority of this will be nigh-on impossible to map using a GPS, so I 
 considered this to be a useful contribution in an area previously 
 mostly empty (OSM-wise). Some of these have probably never been mapped 
 to this level of accuracy before. And I still haven't finished yet 
 (Lakes are only about half-way up the country, and most of the coastal 
 rivers still need doing), so I reckon that'll keep me going this 
 winter. Bolivia and Brazil still have a lot of water unmapped, so that 
 would be something you could consider. I'm sure there are many other 
 parts of the world with similar needs. As urban areas lend themselves 
 well to on-the-ground mappers with GPS devices these are better left 
 to locals who can gather street names, but even here I reckon there's 
 room for basic mapping of major highways from satellite, as that will 
 form a framework around which people on the ground can organise their 
 own mapping. For example people might decide to map completely a 
 square enclosed by roads, rivers etc., but unless these features are 
 already on the map it's harder to plan something like this. When I 
 actually got to visit one such road I was able to adjust it on the 
 basis of GPS data, thus improving the accuracy.

 Donald

 

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[OSM-talk] wiki working?

[Igor Brejc]

Is it just me or the OSM Wiki isn't working whole day (I tried in the 
morning and tried now again)?

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Re: [OSM-talk] wiki working?

[Igor Brejc]

sylvain letuffe wrote:
 On Wednesday 19 November 2008 17:26, Igor Brejc wrote:
   
 Is it just me or the OSM Wiki isn't working whole day (I tried in the 
 morning and tried now again)?
 

 It seams to be down since a few dozen minutes, but all day long it was 
 working 
 correctly.

 Only the squid proxy answers me now.

 I'm gone a give, as a chrismas present to the server, a new 64MB memory to 
 double it's power...

 ( No don't flame me, that was just a sarcastic joke ! )


   
Well it started to work right after I sent the mail, but then it stopped 
after some 10 minutes. Other sites (including the OSM map) are working fine.

Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] Contour lines from SRTM-Data in OSM format

[Igor Brejc]

Nic Roets wrote:
 I believe srtm2osm uses void filled data that is copyrighted. So is 
 you do distribute the results make sure that you specify it's only for 
 academic research. IANAL.

No, it uses original SRTM data downloaded directly from NASA's FTP server.

Regards,
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Re: [OSM-talk] Contour lines from SRTM-Data in OSM format

[Igor Brejc]

Christoph Eckert wrote:
 Hi,

   
 I believe srtm2osm uses void filled data that is copyrighted. So is
 you do distribute the results make sure that you specify it's only for
 academic research. IANAL.
   
 No, it uses original SRTM data downloaded directly from NASA's FTP server.
 

 I've been on the SRTM pages a couple of minutes before, and am still unsure 
 about the license stuff. Before I distribute the data, I'd really like to 
 know if it is legal. Any hint would be much appreciated.

 Best regards,

 ce


   
Well, first of all, CycleMap uses the same SRTM data (as far as I know), 
so if the license is an issue, this applies to CycleMap too.
I haven't been able to find any info directly describing the license of 
SRTM, but, as far as I know, all NASA's products (images, data) are 
public domain. And since people who generated SRTM void-filled data 
license it under their own terms (and not NASA's), I guess this means 
that the original data has a very permissive license. So we should be in 
the clear ;)

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[OSM-talk] Kosmos 2.3

[Igor Brejc]

Hi all,

A new version of Kosmos is out: What's new:
- slippymap integrated directly into the main map. It can show the three 
OSM map layers.
- improvements in memory consumption and rendering speed
- areas can now have their own icons
- full map mode
- a lot of bugfixes and minor enhancements

Read 
http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/kosmos-23-now-with-integrated-slippymap 
for more info.

Best regards,
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[OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general

[Igor Brejc]

Hello,

This question has come up several times (from what I could Google out), 
but let me ask it again: when can we expect Mapnik OSM layer to render 
highway=path? Nevermind the path or footway debate - it would be nice 
to have paths rendered (they can be rendered the same as footways, as 
far as I'm concerned). Anyway, I checked Tagwatch for Germany and it has 
some 17,000 paths, so it's not totally unused.

Second issue: I've just added an area tagged with place=locality, but 
Osmarender doesn't seem to render it (I don't know about Mapnik). This 
would be a nice feature to have (especially for cycling map).

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mapnik rendering of paths + place=locality in general

[Igor Brejc]

Tom Hughes wrote:
 Igor Brejc wrote:

 This question has come up several times (from what I could Google 
 out), but let me ask it again: when can we expect Mapnik OSM layer to 
 render highway=path? Nevermind the path or footway debate - it 
 would be nice to have paths rendered (they can be rendered the same 
 as footways, as far as I'm concerned). Anyway, I checked Tagwatch for 
 Germany and it has some 17,000 paths, so it's not totally unused.

 How about if you want them rendered you tag them with the standard 
 tagging of highway=footway that we've been using for the last several 
 years and which mapnik already supports?

 It's no use saying never mind the debate. By that logic I could 
 announce that in future I'm going to tag all motorways as 
 highway=frog and demand that people never mind the debate and just 
 render highway=frog as a motorway.

 Tom

Ok, but is there anywhere in OSM world a law that says use footways and 
not paths? Aren't we constantly reiterating the fact that tagging is 
democratic? Isn't there a description of highway=path on Map 
Features page?

I don't see a reason (and I don't intend to continue) the debate about 
this issue. I was merely asking when/if this feature will be rendered in 
Mapnik. And I didn't announce any plans to use or disuse this tag.

Best regards,
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Re: [OSM-talk] Example of Multipolygon Lake/Islands?

[Igor Brejc]

Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
 On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Gustav Foseid [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Hi Can anyone provide a permalink to an example of a lake that uses the
 multipolygon relation to handle islands? I remember having a link to such an
 example a while ago but I seem to have lost it.
   
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=59.882lon=10.83435zoom=16layers=B000FTF

 Regards,
 

 I don't tag islands in the middle of lakes like that, I just use
 coastline without a relation. Where can I read about the advantages of
 doing it this way?

   
There were a lot of (lengthy) discussions about it on this list. I guess 
the main advantage is that you specify a lake more precisely in physical 
terms - it consists of water and islands inside the lake. Just using 
higher layer tags for island is more of a hint for rendering software 
and does not specify any relation between the lake and its islands.

Igor

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[OSM-talk] Kosmos 2.2

[Igor Brejc]

Hello mappers,

I just want to inform you that a new version of Kosmos is out. For those 
interested, please read my blog post 
(http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/kosmos-22) for more information 
about what's new in this release.

Best regards,
Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] New tile design for OSM, and up-to-date renders for the SF Bay Area

[Igor Brejc]

Michal, very nice!

I was thinking about hosting the tiles on S3 too. What's your experience 
on this (speed, $ cost, ...)?

Igor

Michal Migurski wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 I'll be writing more about this over the weekend, but I thought  
 there'd be interest here in some work I've been doing on Mapnik  
 stylesheets for OSM data.

 There are some test renders available here:
   http://teczno.com/cascadenik-openstreetmap-II/

 ...and a slippy map if you select the OpenStreetMap layer:
   http://teczno.com/old-oakland/

 I'm keeping the renders up-to-date to the nearest day or so, and  
 hosting them on S3. I'm covering just the nine-county Bay Area:
   http://s3.amazonaws.com/osm-bayarea/7-r49-c20.png

 The stylesheets are based on the Cascadenik work obtainable from  
 mapnik-utils:
   http://code.google.com/p/mapnik-utils/

 -mike.

 
 michal migurski- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   415.558.1610




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Re: [OSM-talk] Recommended GPS for logs for OSM *and* for vehicle - is there such a beast?

[Igor Brejc]

If you're willing to spend some extra money, maybe you should take a 
look at Garmin Oregon: 
http://www.gpsmagazine.com/2008/08/garmin_oregon_400t_review.php

The upside is that it's an outdoor unit with a good map display. Battery 
life should be quite OK, at least from my experience with Garmins. And 
it supports navigation, but without sound (if you need this, take a look 
at new Garmin nuvi 500). What's additionally attractive to me is the 
support for the heart rate monitor and bike cadence sensor.
The downside is that it's a closed source unit, but you should be able 
to view OSM maps (if Garmin hasn't changed mapping support with these 
new models).

IMHO pure outdoor units are still the only option for the real outdoor 
use (rain, low temperatures etc). I'm using Garmin Vista Cx and I'm 
quite happy with it.

Igor


Florian Steiper wrote:
 Hello,

 As much as I know the Garmin navigation units can load the OpenStreetMap 
 data that is produced by mkgmap.
 sadly only the top model in the Nüvi series offers tracking.

 However, the motorbike units (zumo) do offer tracking, are water 
 (splash) proof and also allow navigation by voice. They may be a little 
 heavy for use on a bicycle... and they are also rather expensive... but 
 again.. you can load the OSM map on the devices and see where there is 
 data already and where there isn't.

 ciao

   Florian


 Chris G wrote:
   
 I'm after a GPS system which I can use to provide data for OSM maps
 and as a 'normal' GPS system to tell me where to go when I'm on my
 motorbike.  Is there anything which can provide both facilities or
 should I give up and buy two separate devices?

 It's doubtful (to me) if on-screen maps are much use, too distracting,
 so a system which can provide voice instructions via bluetooth (or
 whatever) would seem to be best for the 'bike.

 A receiver which can link up with a PDA might make sense as I need a
 new PDA anyway.

 So, rather an open-ended question but I'd appreciate any/all input.

   
 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Australia has Google Street View!

[Igor Brejc]

Frederik Ramm wrote:
 Just for the record: The issue is highly contended and it would be wrong 
 to speak of consensus. If there's any consensus then it is that when in 
 doubt we prefer to be careful and so we don't copy from aerial images - 
 even though many of us believe that it would be perfectly legal to do so.

 Bye
 Frederik

   
Do we have any lawyers in the OSM community to help clear this?

Igor

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[OSM-talk] tagging trailblazes / marked paths

[Igor Brejc]

Hello,

Now that the highway=path has been moved to the official features 
page, is there any more or less agreed way of tagging marked paths? I 
see a lot of different proposal pages on this, but no real consensus. I 
myself have been tagging my local area using trailblazed=yes, but it 
would be nice to use some generally agreed tag.

Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] tagging trailblazes / marked paths

[Igor Brejc]

Frederik Ramm wrote:
 Hi,

 Tom Hughes wrote:
 It was approved on the basis of a tiny vote on the wiki and I would 
 say there is zero chance of most people switching from the tags that 
 have been in use for several years to some new scheme that, as I 
 understand it, requires about five tags for each path.

  Given that most of the UK examples on the wiki were actually wrong by
  their own definition last time I looked I certainly plan to stick to
  what we've always done.

 A very similar thing seems to have happened recently with the 
 Crossing tag.

 I've never been a friend of that voting business but it seems to get 
 more absurd every day. Is it perhaps time now to have a vote on 
 abolishing votes altogehter - or should we continue to let people vote 
 on whatever they like and ignore the results? It's fine with me but 
 seems to irritate newbies who lack the stubbornness that speaks from 
 your above paragraph ;-)

 Bye
 Frederik

I'm not touching the voting-no voting issue :). I'm just trying to 
think ahead and consider how this data that we're so happily entering 
will be used for purposes other than just rendering (getting back to my 
hiking-buddy SW idea I mentioned a few times before). If we have 10 
different ways of describing the same thing it's going to be difficult 
to implement and maintain SW that uses this data.

Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] tagging trailblazes / marked paths

[Igor Brejc]

Alex Mauer wrote:
  Brejc wrote:
   
 Hello,

 Now that the highway=path has been moved to the official features 
 page, is there any more or less agreed way of tagging marked paths? I 
 see a lot of different proposal pages on this, but no real consensus. I 
 myself have been tagging my local area using trailblazed=yes, but it 
 would be nice to use some generally agreed tag.
 

 Take a look at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Key:trail_visibility

 Combined with highway=path, does that cover what you need to map?

 -Alex Mauer hawke


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Which tag value would I use for a path through the forest that is 
clearly visible, but with no markings? There are a lot of those in Slovenia.

Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] Actually using OpenStreetMap - how to get vector data

[Igor Brejc]

Hello,

While we're on the subject of OSM usability: I have a different 
issue/question/problem regarding the access to the OSM data.

While I find OSM web maps to be quite usable and all, I think the 
biggest strength of OSM (apart from its community, of course :) ) is 
having an access to the raw (vector) map data and not just image tiles 
like Google et al. For a long time I was dreaming about creating a 
desktop/mobile application for cyclists and hikers which would utilize 
the vector data for suggesting cycling/hiking routes, calculating the 
time needed and so on. The map area would not necessarily be a large one.

The problem is fetching the data - the only viable option I see is using 
OSMXAPI, but its server is overwhelmed and will limit the download size 
in the future (from what I read on this list). Using planet dumps seems 
to me a bit too unfriendly from the end-user perspective - they would 
have to download quite a large quantity of data.

I have the similar problem with providing map data to users of Kosmos. 
Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

Best regards,
Igor


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Re: [OSM-talk] Collapsed names

[Igor Brejc]

David Earl wrote:
 In principle it ought to be 
 possible to determine the country an object is in, even though it is 
 quite hard at present. I think a lot of things would benefit from this 
 ability: nationally-styled rendering rules, deciding which way 
 roundabouts go, name renderings, validation, improved searching context etc.

 David

   
I think it is not as easy as it looks. Some countries (Slovenia, for 
example) still do not have the whole border drawn in OSM (lack of free 
data), so you cannot use this to determine what belongs to what country 
- never mind the purely technical difficulties of doing so. And anyway, 
even this does not help for multilingual countries like Belgium or Spain.

It is probably more logical to use multilingual place names which should 
have an ISO language ID, like name:ca so that we can match them with 
appropriate language mappings like Name finder:Abbreviations. But this 
multilingual tagging is not used universally in the OSM community.
There is also an is_in tag, but again, it's not widely used (at least 
to my knowledge, I could be wrong).

BTW: it would be good to add ISO language IDs to the Name 
finder:Abbreviations page so that the mappings can be computer-matched 
more easily.

Igor

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Re: [OSM-talk] KOSMOS general default rule?

[Igor Brejc]

I forgot to cc: the mailing list...

Hi,

I had this question come up several times, so let me explain.

Short answer: Kosmos GUI has a feature called unused ways and nodes 
which (when turned on) allows you to display ( in a visually irritant 
way) nodes/ways which were not covered by the rules (see 
http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/kosmos/spotting-unused-ways-in-kosmos 
for more info).

Long answer:
Rules in Kosmos are implemented in such a way as to not exclude each 
other. The excluding is only available for child rules. That's why you 
cannot set a default rule at the end of the ruleset to cover anything 
else that wasn't covered by the rules above.

The problem in general is how do you define what's covered and what's 
not? Example: you have a node that is a part of the highway. You have 
the way covered with a rule, but the node also contains a bus stop tag, 
for which you did not set a rendering rule. Is the node covered by rules 
or not?

Relations make things even more complicated.

Igor

GS wrote:
 Hi,

 let's suppose I have a ruleset and want to draw anything uncovered by the 
 specific rules as gray symbols or lines. So I want a default rule for nodes 
 and ways not selected by special rules.

 For child rules that is possible. For major rules also? How?

 Purpose is to become aware of data that someone entered but that is not yet 
 shown on my map.

 Thanks

 Gary68


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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMXAPI

[Igor Brejc]

OK I tried it with Kosmos, looks like you set the maximum size limit on 
downloadable areas (or is it just the max. count of elements)?

This is my request URL (roughly the area around Bodensee): 
http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.5/*%5bbbox=8.57056470092773,47.3201045967113,10.3134986679315,47.8968827018757

Response:
?xml version='1.0' standalone='no'?\nerror\nBETA: we are testing a 
request validation mechanism to filter out silly requests.  If you have 
made\n a sensible request that is being rejected please let me know 
([EMAIL PROTECTED]).  \n\nYour request (*/*/*) is too large.  Please 
check your request.  \nIf you really do need this data then it may be 
better to get it directly from a planet file.\nLog ID=475746  \n/error\n

I think it is good that you've set some sort of filtering of requests. 
It would however be nice to know what kind of criteria you set for 
rejecting requests, so that OSMXAPI clients could implements similar 
logic even before sending requests.

An idea to consider: why not allow some sort of capabilities query 
which would return current values of these criteria?

Regards,
Igor

80n wrote:
 I've just implemented a change to OSMXAPI which will filter out and 
 reject silly requests (like highway=*).

 The filter uses a combination of bbox size and count of matching 
 elements to determine whether or not to process the request.

 At this stage it is a bit experimental and there is scope for fine 
 tuning what it accepts and rejects.

 If you find that it is rejecting a request that you think is 
 reasonable then please let me know.  I want to find the point where 
 all reasonable requests are still accepted but silly or badly formed 
 ones are rejected. 

 This should make a big difference to the throughput as previously 
 osmxapi would easily get bogged down by someone requesting the whole 
 planet and then retrying two or three times when they don't get a 
 response within 10 seconds.

 80n


 

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM maps in 3D

[Igor Brejc]

Stephen Gower wrote:

  On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 09:19:02PM +0200, Igor Brejc wrote:
  
  
I've started playing around using DirectX in combination with SRTM data 
to draw 3D relief OSM maps. The plan is to add this feature to Kosmos. 
Please visit http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-in-3d if 
you want to see some initial results.

  
  
Wow - that's amazing.  One feature request from a hilly, but not mountainous
part of the world - can you include an option to exaggerate the relief?  On
the wall at work is a physical relief map of Oxford in plastic made by the
Ordnance Survey in the 1970s. I recall from the small print that the scale
of the vertical axis is three times that of the horizontal plane - and that
gives a map where the hills look like they feel as I cycle up them!

s

  

Yes, that's one of the "obligatory" features of 3D scenery renderers.
What I will probably do is to first publish a prototype standalone
application for 3D OSM maps and include some kind of XML configuration
where you'll be able to specify relief exaggeration (among other
things). Then I'll merge this into the main Kosmos.GUI and provide a
GUI for setting these things.

I'll also invest some time in trying out Axiom engine mentioned before
(or some other library) to make 3D rendering more portable, but I
cannot promise more than that.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM maps in 3D

[Igor Brejc]

SteveC wrote:

 On 18 Jul 2008, at 08:13, Igor Brejc wrote:

 elvin ibbotson wrote:


 Very nice but it needs DirectX. I cut my map programming teeth on a 
 viewer for British OS maps which uses Java 3D 
 (http://britain.poco.org.uk/desktop.html). I can’t share it because 
 of copyright restrictions on the maps, but the principle would apply 
 to any map source including OSM. Why not use Java instead of 
 Microsoft stuff then it would run on anything. There’s an awful lot 
 of us using Linux or Macs - anything but Windows!. I like the idea 
 of Kosmos but - MS .net!!

 elvin


 Guys, I understand what you're saying and in general I agree, it's 
 better to use an open and portable technology than a closed-source 
 like MS. But I live in a real world, my programming skills are in C# 
 and MS.NET (mostly because I also

 I too live in a real world, but don't go down to their level by 
 patronising us with phrases like that. Just ignore them and keep hacking.

 Best

 Steve


I meant no patronizing, I'm sorry if you felt that way...

Igor

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