[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[David Gifford]

I added this to the toolmap, under 'Writing and editing - transclusion' 
(see https://dynalist.io/d/zUP-nIWu2FFoXH-oM7L7d9DM)

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 11:21:33 PM UTC-5, zemoxian wrote:
>
> I played around a bit and came up with a little demo.
>
> http://zemox.tiddlyspot.com/#PE%3Aparagraph%20edit
>
> Probably a bit more complicated than needed.  But you can edit and 
> rearrange a list of sub-tiddlers. 
>
> If I were to make 1 addition it would be an editor toolbar.
>
> Edit: One thing I don't get is the links.  It doesn't scroll to the 
> sub-tiddlers.  Also, Not sure how to navigate out of the main tiddler since 
> the navigator widget catches the links.  A second, display tiddler could 
> help with that.
>
> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 11:05:45 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>
>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>  
>>
>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
>> 
>>
>>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate and 
>> $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required 
>> functionality.
>>  
>> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>>  
>>
>> 
>> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
>> <$view field=title />
>> 
>> <$transclude />
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
>> sections up and down.
>>  
>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>>
>>> You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple of 
>>> templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
>>> actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the 
>>> past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles manipulation 
>>> of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and edit 
>>> templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, etc.  
>>> You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
>>> tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, etc.)  
>>> So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with its 
>>> own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just depends on 
>>> what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a little 
>>> tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the various 
>>> templates and buttons, etc.
>>>  
>>> On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>>>
 I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler by 
 its fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, links, 
 images..), or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS LONG 
 AS you have the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window of 
 that primary tiddler. 

 Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate paragraphs 
 by excising those paragraphs into different tiddlers makes the editing 
 very 
 cumbersome: you have to jump to those new tiddlers to edit them and then 
 come back to the primary tiddler to see the integral result. 

>>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[David Gifford]

Wow this is a fascinating concept. FYI there is a link, " Here is a tiddler
linked to from another:. New Tiddler 1
 ", and clicking it does
nothing.

David Gifford
Mexico team leader, Mexico City

*Resonate Global Mission*
*Engaging People. Embracing Christ.*
A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
resonateglobalmission.org


On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 11:34 PM, zemoxian  wrote:

>
>
> On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 7:21:21 AM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>>
>> Hello TiddlyWiki enthusiasts,
>>
>> I have recently discovered TiddlyWiki and here I have question:
>>
>> Is it in principle possible to somehow tag selected paragraphs of a text
>> within a tiddler, so that it would be later possible to transclude all the
>> paragraphs associated with a specific tag?
>>
>> Let's say, I write a journal with one tiddler per day, and in any given
>> journal tiddler I write about various topics. For a given topic, the goal
>> would be to create a new tiddler composed of all the paragraphs from
>> different tiddlers associated with that topic. Is it possible to achieve
>> something like this without having to create, for each topic, a separate
>> tiddler everyday?
>>
>> Warm regards,
>>
>> Vytas
>>
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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[zemoxian]

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 7:21:21 AM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>
> Hello TiddlyWiki enthusiasts,
>
> I have recently discovered TiddlyWiki and here I have question: 
>
> Is it in principle possible to somehow tag selected paragraphs of a text 
> within a tiddler, so that it would be later possible to transclude all the 
> paragraphs associated with a specific tag? 
>
> Let's say, I write a journal with one tiddler per day, and in any given 
> journal tiddler I write about various topics. For a given topic, the goal 
> would be to create a new tiddler composed of all the paragraphs from 
> different tiddlers associated with that topic. Is it possible to achieve 
> something like this without having to create, for each topic, a separate 
> tiddler everyday?
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Vytas
>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[zemoxian]

I played around a bit and came up with a little demo.

http://zemox.tiddlyspot.com/#PE%3Aparagraph%20edit

Probably a bit more complicated than needed.  But you can edit and 
rearrange a list of sub-tiddlers. 

If I were to make 1 addition it would be an editor toolbar.

On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 11:05:45 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:

> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>  
>
> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
> 
>
>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate and 
> $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required 
> functionality.
>  
> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>  
>
> 
> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
> <$view field=title />
> 
> <$transclude />
> 
> 
>
>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
> sections up and down.
>  
> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>
>> You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple of 
>> templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
>> actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the 
>> past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles manipulation 
>> of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and edit 
>> templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, etc.  
>> You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
>> tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, etc.)  
>> So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with its 
>> own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just depends on 
>> what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a little 
>> tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the various 
>> templates and buttons, etc.
>>  
>> On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>>
>>> I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler by its 
>>> fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, links, images..), 
>>> or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS LONG AS you have 
>>> the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window of that primary 
>>> tiddler. 
>>>
>>> Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate paragraphs 
>>> by excising those paragraphs into different tiddlers makes the editing very 
>>> cumbersome: you have to jump to those new tiddlers to edit them and then 
>>> come back to the primary tiddler to see the integral result. 
>>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[JD]

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 7:53:48 PM UTC+9, Vytas wrote:
>
> @JD
>
> In the process of enabling myself to customize your wonderful *paragraphs* 
> macro, I have analysed the code of it (actually, since I'm a newbie, it 
> took me a decent amount of effort). I'm glad I was able to more or less 
> understand it. Just one small question. If I get it correctly, you don't 
> need "textarea" in the following:
> 

Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[David Gifford]

Hi Mark, Vytas, and others

Thanks for the responses. My comment last night was not meant to criticize
you, Mark, or your effort. I probably shouldn't post after 10pm, as it can
come out wrong. My comment wasn't meant to be hate for what you did, but
love for outliners. After years of notetaking in T-dub, creating numerous,
probably around 50, different adaptations (yes, Vytas, I have done that
extensively for years), outliners were like an epiphany for me, absolutely
liberating. They let me get back to focusing on the content rather than on
the mechanics. I was constantly saying to myself, "You mean I can just
indent instead of having to add various levels of asterisks? You mean every
item, whether a section, a paragraph or image, is its own webpage with an
URL I can share? You mean images can just be dragged in rather than
uploading them somewhere and then creating a tiddler with an image link?
You mean if I want to reorder paragraphs in my article or outline or list
or table of contents, I can just drag them? Wow!" These were the kinds of
discoveries that made me excited about outliners.

So even considering going to T-dub for outlining feels like going back to
jail. I use T-dub for the things it does well, and it does many things
really well. So I use it a lot. Every day. But when I hear people in this
forum turn their nose up at Dynalist - and I am not saying you did, but
others have - it just sounds like ignorant prejudice from TiddlyWiki
diehards, because I have found outliners liberating.

Your attempt, valiant as it is, reminds me of one of my many attempts from
2014 - http://giffmex.org/experiments/obadiah.html#Table%20of%20contents.
The new here button in conjunction with the toc feature seems to already do
what you are doing. And it is great to a point. So I remember the
excitement you are feeling at your success. All I am saying is that 1)
there are limits. Scale is a killer, especially when tags, and lists based
on tags, are involved. And it looks like tags are used for your toc as they
were with mine. 2) And let's not pretend that TW could ever become an
outliner-killer. You could refine this and hone this so that it is 500% or
1000% better, and it would still not do what an outliner does. And that is
not a put down - it does not make your project less valuable or awesome for
TiddlyWiki. In saying this I am trying to affirm Vytas' reply to me. I
agree.

Most of Dynalist's best features are free, but I pay for Dynalist pro
because I benefit greatly from its value and it is worth it to me - I am
online almost all the time, I do a lot of writing and organizing, and I
deal with a large number of interrelated topics. I was an early adopter, so
I have a discount. I do not pay 'double what it costs for Evernote', as
someone put it. So my case is distinct. I realize not everyone would find
it as helpful or cost-efficient. I am not trying to convert anyone from
T-dub. Though TiddlyWiki is free, I try to 'pay' for it by creating
resources like the TiddlyWiki toolmap to show my gratitude. I have probably
paid with my time spent on shared projects for TiddlyWiki far more than I
pay in money for Dynalist.

One last note, @Mat: with Dynalist I can download a backup in plain text
and opml with one button. And I fear more for TW over 25 years. Browser
restrictions have already affected TW greatly. Who says they won't do so
more in the future?

Blessings to all. I enjoy the discussion and everyone's comments. Just
trying to give a different perspective.



David Gifford
Mexico team leader, Mexico City

*Resonate Global Mission*
*Engaging People. Embracing Christ.*
A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
resonateglobalmission.org


On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 11:43 PM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 6:07:55 PM UTC-7, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>>
>> 1) Unless I am mistaken, this doesn't improve that much on using the new
>> here button with the table of contents. You just title the child tiddler
>> before creating, whereas with the new here button you do the same in the
>> opposite order. It is slightly easier to grasp for newbies, though.
>>
>
> If it's working correctly, when you make the new tiddler it should appear
> inside the TOC "tree". If it's appearing outside the tree then you are
> probably using a slightly older version of TW. With this mechanism, you
> could quickly make the outline of whatever text you are preparing, drilling
> down layer by layer.
>
>
>> 2) I don't think this will scale in TiddlyWiki like it does in Dynalist
>> or Workflowy.
>>
>
> I think many people would be able to get along with a couple thousand
> entries, and I expect it to scale to that.
>
>
>
>> 3) The children are not present when opening the tiddler the way child
>> notes are visible when zooming in to a node in Dynalist and Workflowy.
>>
>
> Guess I'd have to take another look at WF and DYN.
>
>
>> 4) What makes Dynalist and Workflowy so appealing is 

Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[TonyM]

One persons note book is anothers data collection repository and tiddlywiki 
then lets you analyse, structure, automate, turn into a database, refactor, 
print, define custom views, import export, extend, parse.

Notebooks are so last millenium. Notebooks are dead, long live the notebook (in 
tw).

Tony

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Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Mat]

Side note: One major point with TW is "the next 25 years" i.e that TW 
relies on very basic tech so your data will still be easily accessible for 
quite some time. When you bring in Dynalist and other services you are, 
AFAICT, back out on the same ol' thin ice that many of us try to leave 
behind after having been burnt. Or am I missing sth?

<:-)

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Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

['Vytas' via TiddlyWiki]

@JD

In the process of enabling myself to customize your wonderful *paragraphs* 
macro, I have analysed the code of it (actually, since I'm a newbie, it 
took me a decent amount of effort). I'm glad I was able to more or less 
understand it. Just one small question. If I get it correctly, you don't 
need "textarea" in the following:

Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 6:07:55 PM UTC-7, David Gifford wrote:
>
>
> 1) Unless I am mistaken, this doesn't improve that much on using the new 
> here button with the table of contents. You just title the child tiddler 
> before creating, whereas with the new here button you do the same in the 
> opposite order. It is slightly easier to grasp for newbies, though.
>

If it's working correctly, when you make the new tiddler it should appear 
inside the TOC "tree". If it's appearing outside the tree then you are 
probably using a slightly older version of TW. With this mechanism, you 
could quickly make the outline of whatever text you are preparing, drilling 
down layer by layer.
 

> 2) I don't think this will scale in TiddlyWiki like it does in Dynalist or 
> Workflowy.
>

I think many people would be able to get along with a couple thousand 
entries, and I expect it to scale to that.

 

> 3) The children are not present when opening the tiddler the way child 
> notes are visible when zooming in to a node in Dynalist and Workflowy.
>

Guess I'd have to take another look at WF and DYN.
 

> 4) What makes Dynalist and Workflowy so appealing is that every paragraph 
> of text is a separate node that can be reordered. And you can zoom into any 
> level of the outline to focus on that level.
>

Opening and closing the branches of the tree, you can get some level of 
granularity and focus. Obviously one guy working a few hours on a project 
can't do as much as entire teams of programmers. I'm sort of thinking it 
might inspire someone to take it to the next level.
 

> I don't write this to be nitpicky or negative. I just don't want to see 
> you wasting your time trying to make TiddlyWiki into an outliner. I don't 
> see that it could compete, but then Dynalist and Worklowy can't compete 
> with TiddlyWiki in many areas.
>

Let me try Diego Mesa's argument on you:

...if you buy into the TW philosophy that its your external brain - that 
>> you place all information that is somewhat important to you into TW - it 
>> only makes sense that it would have some mechanism to help you remember 
>> certain key pieces. 
>>
>
For me, Dynalist and WF are no-goes because they can't work offline. OK, I 
guess DL has a windows app, but it's kind of nice to get away from app's. 
Their Android apps unfortunately do not work on my aging mobile devices. I 
think images are important, and neither work with images without adding 
money.

Overall though, this was just an experiment. I probably won't take it 
further unless some interest is expressed. Meanwhile I'll be looking with 
interest at what zemoxian, JD and the others come up with.

Thanks!
Mark

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Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[David Gifford]

Hi Mark

Sorry to be the sourpuss on this one.

1) Unless I am mistaken, this doesn't improve that much on using the new
here button with the table of contents. You just title the child tiddler
before creating, whereas with the new here button you do the same in the
opposite order. It is slightly easier to grasp for newbies, though.
2) I don't think this will scale in TiddlyWiki like it does in Dynalist or
Workflowy.
3) The children are not present when opening the tiddler the way child
notes are visible when zooming in to a node in Dynalist and Workflowy.
4) What makes Dynalist and Workflowy so appealing is that every paragraph
of text is a separate node that can be reordered. And you can zoom into any
level of the outline to focus on that level.

I don't write this to be nitpicky or negative. I just don't want to see you
wasting your time trying to make TiddlyWiki into an outliner. I don't see
that it could compete, but then Dynalist and Worklowy can't compete with
TiddlyWiki in many areas.

I am a fan of both TiddlyWiki and Dynalist, and tend to use both daily. I
tend to write notes and organize my thoughts and tasks in Dynalist, and use
TiddlyWiki for indexing and the creation of static htmls for web publishing.

BTW, while the Dynalist Pro version is a little pricey, as some have noted,
the free version is pretty generous (whereas Workflowy is stingy) and
Dynalist contains most of the features most people would want, unless they
are working with images and attachments.

David Gifford
Mexico team leader, Mexico City

*Resonate Global Mission*
*Engaging People. Embracing Christ.*
A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
resonateglobalmission.org


On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 7:42 PM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I should probably post this in a separate thread, "TW-Flowy"
>
> This version works mostly. Create a global macro tiddler and insert:
>
> \define tagascurrent() [[$(currentTiddler)$]]
> \define draft() Draft of '$(currentTiddler)$'
> \define draftcreated() Draft of '$(currentTiddler)$'!!created
> \define drafttrans() {{Draft of '$(currentTiddler)$'||$:/core/ui/
> EditTemplate}}
> \define toc-tabbed-external-nav2(tag,sort:"",selectedTiddler:"$:/
> temp/toc/selectedTiddler",unselectedText,missingText,template:"")
> <$tiddler tiddler={{$selectedTiddler$}}>
> 
> <$linkcatcher to="$selectedTiddler$">
> 
> <$macrocall $name="toc-selective-expandable" tag="""$tag$""" sort=
> """$sort$""" itemClassFilter=< selectedTiddler:"""$selectedTiddler$""">>/>
> 
> 
> 
> <$reveal state="""$selectedTiddler$""" type="nomatch" text="">
> <$navigator story="story" history="history" openLinkFromInsideRiver="top">
>
> <$list filter="[all[current]]" >
> <$reveal state=<> type="nomatch" text="">
> <>
> 
> <$reveal state=<> type="match" text="">
> {{||$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate}}
> <$button>
> <$action-createtiddler $basetitle={{$:/newitem}} tags=<>
> $savetitle="""$selectedTiddler$""" />
> New child<$edit-text tiddler="$:/newitem" tag="input"
> size="30" default="Child name here" placeholder="Child name here"/>
> 
> 
>
> 
> 
> <$reveal state="""$selectedTiddler$""" type="match" text="">
> $unselectedText$
> 
> 
> 
> 
> \end
>
> Then invoke, for instance if your top tag was "Root":
>
> <$macrocall
> $name="toc-tabbed-external-nav2"
> tag="Root"
> selectedTiddler="$:/temp/toc/selectedTiddler"
> unselectedText="Select a topic in the table of contents. Click the
> arrow to expand a topic."
> missingText="Missing tiddler."
> template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate"
> />
>
> Note that it is called "toc-tabbed-external-nav*2*". Below is an example
> of it in action.
>
> There are anomalies. I haven't worked out the CSS, so you'll probably need
> to have your TW in full-column mode. You need to use the button and field
> at the bottom of each item rather than the "New Here" button. Changing the
> tiddler name will cause you to lose your place in the tree structure.
>
> This requires latest version of TW (actually, might be able to get away
> with 5.1.14, not sure) As always, be sure to have your TW backed up before
> trying this.
>
> Have fun,
> Mark
>
>
>
> --
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You received 

[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I should probably post this in a separate thread, "TW-Flowy"

This version works mostly. Create a global macro tiddler and insert:

\define tagascurrent() [[$(currentTiddler)$]]
\define draft() Draft of '$(currentTiddler)$'
\define draftcreated() Draft of '$(currentTiddler)$'!!created
\define drafttrans() {{Draft of '$(currentTiddler)$'||$:/core/ui/
EditTemplate}}
\define toc-tabbed-external-nav2(tag,sort:"",selectedTiddler:
"$:/temp/toc/selectedTiddler",unselectedText,missingText,template:"")
<$tiddler tiddler={{$selectedTiddler$}}>

<$linkcatcher to="$selectedTiddler$">

<$macrocall $name="toc-selective-expandable" tag="""$tag$""" sort=
"""$sort$""" itemClassFilter=<>/>



<$reveal state="""$selectedTiddler$""" type="nomatch" text="">
<$navigator story="story" history="history" openLinkFromInsideRiver="top">

<$list filter="[all[current]]" >
<$reveal state=<> type="nomatch" text="">
<>

<$reveal state=<> type="match" text="">
{{||$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate}}
<$button>
<$action-createtiddler $basetitle={{$:/newitem}} tags=<> 
$savetitle="""$selectedTiddler$""" />
New child <$edit-text tiddler="$:/newitem" tag="input" size="
30" default="Child name here" placeholder="Child name here"/>





<$reveal state="""$selectedTiddler$""" type="match" text="">
$unselectedText$




\end

Then invoke, for instance if your top tag was "Root":

<$macrocall
$name="toc-tabbed-external-nav2"
tag="Root"
selectedTiddler="$:/temp/toc/selectedTiddler"
unselectedText="Select a topic in the table of contents. Click the 
arrow to expand a topic."
missingText="Missing tiddler."
template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate"
/>

Note that it is called "toc-tabbed-external-nav*2*". Below is an example of 
it in action.

There are anomalies. I haven't worked out the CSS, so you'll probably need 
to have your TW in full-column mode. You need to use the button and field 
at the bottom of each item rather than the "New Here" button. Changing the 
tiddler name will cause you to lose your place in the tree structure.

This requires latest version of TW (actually, might be able to get away 
with 5.1.14, not sure) As always, be sure to have your TW backed up before 
trying this.

Have fun,
Mark



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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[JD]

Hey Tony, I'm going to run with your ideas and have started to play around 
with the TOC macros...!

On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 at 7:29:54 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>
> JD,
>
> I am not sure about the full blown part, but outline yes.
>
> This difficulty between composing large texts and the tiddler as the basic 
> unit is a common stumbling block for newbies, until they understand the 
> model they do create large tiddlers, then come to the forum asking 
> questions how to deal with large tiddlers.
>
> It makes sense we have a solution already made for authors of larger 
> content that also encourages use of the tiddler and structuring that data. 
> Personally unless we do this a lot of users will not even see how powerful 
> it is to divide and organise there data or documents. Outlining is the 
> minimum structure we need to support large documents.
>
> I agree on using the TableOfContents model or similar, I would like to see 
> a check box or setting that hides and shows tiddler names, edit links, tags 
> and perhaps even author notes. SOne of those settings will show it in a way 
> it can be printed and another so that open in new window is a valid way to 
> monitor the whole documents progress while working on its parts.  Further 
> ease of reordering is also important, and a preview plugins so you can see 
> content of tiddlers from links also makes sense.
>
> When users can author paragraphs and a paragraphs or section "is a 
> tiddler" then collaborative documents is a possibility with all the 
> features than can be applied to tiddler management becoming available.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 11:17:45 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right? 
>>
>> If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. And 
>> instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text 
>> (while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think? 
>>
>> My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + 
>> lots of overtime gets in the way)
>>
>> This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a novelette. 
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>>
>>> JD,
>>>
>>> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat 
>>> hijacking the thread?
>>>
>>> Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it would 
>>> be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that are 
>>> tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro
>>>
>>> I think there would be value being able to specify more than one filter 
>>> as you suggest.
>>>
>>> For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped 
>>> inside the first?
>>>
>>> Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph
>>>
>>> So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the 
>>> same chapter and section
>>> And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.
>>>
>>> I will return to this soon.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:

 Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
 parameter, then going along these lines:

 <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
 <$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
 

 As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than 
 that . Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the 
 demo site to build something better (we can build them together, too, I 
 just don't know how collabs work).

 I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires 
 the creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having 
 to 
 rely on temporary tiddlers... 樂


 On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>
> JD,
>
> I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.
>
> I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and 
> realised It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.
>
> I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were 
> to develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under 
> way.
>
> It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.
>
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>
>> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, 
>> before I read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>>
>> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
>> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>>
>> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>>
>> EDIT: corrected URL
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's a barebones template to start 

Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[TonyM]

David,

I understand the value in picking the tool you need but I think this may 
actually be a gap we need to fill in TiddlyWiki. Even a rudimentary 
outliner, to help bridge the gap between tiddler and texts (in the book 
sense).

Regards
Tony

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 11:25:53 PM UTC+10, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Seems like a lot of effort when there are better tools for writing and 
> outlining, like Dynalist or Workflowy.
>
> David Gifford
> Mexico team leader, Mexico City
>
> *Resonate Global Mission*
> *Engaging People. Embracing Christ.*
> A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
> resonateglobalmission.org
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 8:17 AM, JD  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right? 
>>
>> If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. And 
>> instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text 
>> (while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think? 
>>
>> My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + 
>> lots of overtime gets in the way)
>>
>> This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a novelette. 
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>>
>>> JD,
>>>
>>> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat 
>>> hijacking the thread?
>>>
>>> Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it would 
>>> be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that are 
>>> tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro
>>>
>>> I think there would be value being able to specify more than one filter 
>>> as you suggest.
>>>
>>> For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped 
>>> inside the first?
>>>
>>> Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph
>>>
>>> So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the 
>>> same chapter and section
>>> And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.
>>>
>>> I will return to this soon.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:

 Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
 parameter, then going along these lines:

 <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
 <$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
 

 As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than 
 that . Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the 
 demo site to build something better (we can build them together, too, I 
 just don't know how collabs work).

 I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires 
 the creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having 
 to 
 rely on temporary tiddlers... 樂


 On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>
> JD,
>
> I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.
>
> I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and 
> realised It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.
>
> I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were 
> to develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under 
> way.
>
> It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.
>
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>
>> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, 
>> before I read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>>
>> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
>> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>>
>> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>>
>> EDIT: corrected URL
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>>  
>>>
>>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
>>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
>>> 
>>>
>>>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate 
>>> and $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the 
>>> required functionality.
>>>  
>>> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>>>  
>>>
>>> 
>>> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>>> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
>>> <$view field=title />
>>> 
>>> <$transclude />
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
>>> sections up and down.
>>>  
>>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>>>

[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[TonyM]

JD,

I am not sure about the full blown part, but outline yes.

This difficulty between composing large texts and the tiddler as the basic 
unit is a common stumbling block for newbies, until they understand the 
model they do create large tiddlers, then come to the forum asking 
questions how to deal with large tiddlers.

It makes sense we have a solution already made for authors of larger 
content that also encourages use of the tiddler and structuring that data. 
Personally unless we do this a lot of users will not even see how powerful 
it is to divide and organise there data or documents. Outlining is the 
minimum structure we need to support large documents.

I agree on using the TableOfContents model or similar, I would like to see 
a check box or setting that hides and shows tiddler names, edit links, tags 
and perhaps even author notes. SOne of those settings will show it in a way 
it can be printed and another so that open in new window is a valid way to 
monitor the whole documents progress while working on its parts.  Further 
ease of reordering is also important, and a preview plugins so you can see 
content of tiddlers from links also makes sense.

When users can author paragraphs and a paragraphs or section "is a tiddler" 
then collaborative documents is a possibility with all the features than 
can be applied to tiddler management becoming available.

Regards
Tony

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 11:17:45 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>
> Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right? 
>
> If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. And 
> instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text 
> (while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think? 
>
> My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + lots 
> of overtime gets in the way)
>
> This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a novelette. 
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> JD,
>>
>> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat 
>> hijacking the thread?
>>
>> Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it would 
>> be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that are 
>> tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro
>>
>> I think there would be value being able to specify more than one filter 
>> as you suggest.
>>
>> For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped 
>> inside the first?
>>
>> Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph
>>
>> So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the same 
>> chapter and section
>> And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.
>>
>> I will return to this soon.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
>>> parameter, then going along these lines:
>>>
>>> <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
>>> <$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
>>> 
>>>
>>> As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than 
>>> that . Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the 
>>> demo site to build something better (we can build them together, too, I 
>>> just don't know how collabs work).
>>>
>>> I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires 
>>> the creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having to 
>>> rely on temporary tiddlers... 樂
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:

 JD,

 I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.

 I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and 
 realised It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.

 I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were 
 to develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under 
 way.

 It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.


 Regards
 Tony

 On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>
> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, 
> before I read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>
> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>
> EDIT: corrected URL
>
>
> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>
>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>  
>>
>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
>> 
>>
>>  

Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Diego Mesa]

Mark, 

I remember we had this conversation on another thread when I brought up 
Anki as well lol. I'd summarize that, IMO, if you buy into the TW 
philosophy that its your external brain - that you place all information 
that is somewhat important to you into TW - it only makes sense that it 
would have some mechanism to help you remember certain key pieces. 

Add onto that that its completely open source and lets you *completely* 
customize what any "card"/question can act and look like, it seems like a 
no-brainer to me!

Diego

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 12:38:52 PM UTC-5, Mark S. wrote:
>
> I'm not as convinced with Anki. Anki is already free, open-source, and 
> well-written. Your data may be kept in the cloud, but unless you're a spy 
> no one is going to be interested in your language study progress.
>
> How about a bookmark app that you could take with you? Especially if it 
> were possible to capture and store small thumbprints of web-pages. 
>
> -- Mark
>
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 10:24:55 AM UTC-7, Diego Mesa wrote:
>>
>> I 100% agree with you Mark that a Dynalist built into TW would be a 
>> killer app. I also think the same about Anki, and am working with Simon to 
>> achieve that as well! 
>>
>> If we could get one or two killer, easy to use and easy to follow 
>> "applications" built into TW like that, I think it will do much to bring TW 
>> to a much larger audience. 
>>
>> On a related note, I have personally built a Paper/Reference management 
>> system into TW that I am happy with, and have in the back of my mind to 
>> distil into a plugin/edition for demonstration as well.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 11:51:32 AM UTC-5, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>> Workflowy looks like it decided to rest on it's laurels before it had 
>>> any.
>>>
>>> For the price of Dynalist, you could get two subscriptions to Evernote. 
>>>
>>> None of the cloud-based services seem to promise client-side encryption. 
>>>
>>> An outlining tool built on TW might be the killer app (edition) for TW 
>>> that everyone keeps talking about.  I've started on my own "TWFlowy" once 
>>> or twice, built on the TOC macro. Someone who knew what they were doing 
>>> could probably come up with something really nice, with the security of 
>>> local files and the flexibility of TW.
>>>
>>> -- Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 6:25:53 AM UTC-7, David Gifford wrote:

 Seems like a lot of effort when there are better tools for writing and 
 outlining, like Dynalist or Workflowy.

 David Gifford
 Mexico team leader, Mexico City

 *Resonate Global Mission*
 *Engaging People. Embracing Christ.*
 A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
 resonateglobalmission.org


 On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 8:17 AM, JD  wrote:

> Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right? 
>
> If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. 
> And instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text 
> (while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think? 
>
> My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + 
> lots of overtime gets in the way)
>
> This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a 
> novelette. 
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> JD,
>>
>> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are 
>> somewhat hijacking the thread?
>>
>> Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it 
>> would be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that 
>> are tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro
>>
>> I think there would be value being able to specify more than one 
>> filter as you suggest.
>>
>> For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped 
>> inside the first?
>>
>> Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph
>>
>> So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the 
>> same chapter and section
>> And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.
>>
>> I will return to this soon.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
>>> parameter, then going along these lines:
>>>
>>> <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
>>> <$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
>>> 
>>>
>>> As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more 
>>> than that . Please do share your ideas, and use the code present 
>>> on the demo site to build something better (we can build them together, 
>>> too, I just don't know how collabs work).
>>>
>>> I'm also still mulling over 

Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I'm not as convinced with Anki. Anki is already free, open-source, and 
well-written. Your data may be kept in the cloud, but unless you're a spy 
no one is going to be interested in your language study progress.

How about a bookmark app that you could take with you? Especially if it 
were possible to capture and store small thumbprints of web-pages. 

-- Mark

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 10:24:55 AM UTC-7, Diego Mesa wrote:
>
> I 100% agree with you Mark that a Dynalist built into TW would be a killer 
> app. I also think the same about Anki, and am working with Simon to 
> achieve that as well! 
>
> If we could get one or two killer, easy to use and easy to follow 
> "applications" built into TW like that, I think it will do much to bring TW 
> to a much larger audience. 
>
> On a related note, I have personally built a Paper/Reference management 
> system into TW that I am happy with, and have in the back of my mind to 
> distil into a plugin/edition for demonstration as well.
>
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 11:51:32 AM UTC-5, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Workflowy looks like it decided to rest on it's laurels before it had any.
>>
>> For the price of Dynalist, you could get two subscriptions to Evernote. 
>>
>> None of the cloud-based services seem to promise client-side encryption. 
>>
>> An outlining tool built on TW might be the killer app (edition) for TW 
>> that everyone keeps talking about.  I've started on my own "TWFlowy" once 
>> or twice, built on the TOC macro. Someone who knew what they were doing 
>> could probably come up with something really nice, with the security of 
>> local files and the flexibility of TW.
>>
>> -- Mark
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 6:25:53 AM UTC-7, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> Seems like a lot of effort when there are better tools for writing and 
>>> outlining, like Dynalist or Workflowy.
>>>
>>> David Gifford
>>> Mexico team leader, Mexico City
>>>
>>> *Resonate Global Mission*
>>> *Engaging People. Embracing Christ.*
>>> A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
>>> resonateglobalmission.org
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 8:17 AM, JD  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right? 

 If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. And 
 instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text 
 (while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think? 

 My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + 
 lots of overtime gets in the way)

 This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a 
 novelette. 


 On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>
> JD,
>
> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are 
> somewhat hijacking the thread?
>
> Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it 
> would be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that 
> are tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro
>
> I think there would be value being able to specify more than one 
> filter as you suggest.
>
> For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped 
> inside the first?
>
> Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph
>
> So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the 
> same chapter and section
> And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.
>
> I will return to this soon.
>
> Tony
>
>
> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>
>> Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
>> parameter, then going along these lines:
>>
>> <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
>> <$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
>> 
>>
>> As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more 
>> than that . Please do share your ideas, and use the code present 
>> on the demo site to build something better (we can build them together, 
>> too, I just don't know how collabs work).
>>
>> I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which 
>> requires the creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of 
>> not 
>> having to rely on temporary tiddlers... 樂
>>
>>
>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>>
>>> JD,
>>>
>>> I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.
>>>
>>> I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and 
>>> realised It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.
>>>
>>> I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you 
>>> were to develop it further but as you say this conversation is already 
>>> under way.
>>>
>>> It seems a somewhat simpler 

Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Diego Mesa]

I 100% agree with you Mark that a Dynalist built into TW would be a killer 
app. I also think the same about Anki, and am working with Simon to 
achieve that as well! 

If we could get one or two killer, easy to use and easy to follow 
"applications" built into TW like that, I think it will do much to bring TW 
to a much larger audience. 

On a related note, I have personally built a Paper/Reference management 
system into TW that I am happy with, and have in the back of my mind to 
distil into a plugin/edition for demonstration as well.

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 11:51:32 AM UTC-5, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Workflowy looks like it decided to rest on it's laurels before it had any.
>
> For the price of Dynalist, you could get two subscriptions to Evernote. 
>
> None of the cloud-based services seem to promise client-side encryption. 
>
> An outlining tool built on TW might be the killer app (edition) for TW 
> that everyone keeps talking about.  I've started on my own "TWFlowy" once 
> or twice, built on the TOC macro. Someone who knew what they were doing 
> could probably come up with something really nice, with the security of 
> local files and the flexibility of TW.
>
> -- Mark
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 6:25:53 AM UTC-7, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Seems like a lot of effort when there are better tools for writing and 
>> outlining, like Dynalist or Workflowy.
>>
>> David Gifford
>> Mexico team leader, Mexico City
>>
>> *Resonate Global Mission*
>> *Engaging People. Embracing Christ.*
>> A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
>> resonateglobalmission.org
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 8:17 AM, JD  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right? 
>>>
>>> If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. And 
>>> instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text 
>>> (while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think? 
>>>
>>> My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + 
>>> lots of overtime gets in the way)
>>>
>>> This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a novelette. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:

 JD,

 Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are 
 somewhat hijacking the thread?

 Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it 
 would be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that 
 are tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro

 I think there would be value being able to specify more than one filter 
 as you suggest.

 For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped 
 inside the first?

 Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph

 So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the 
 same chapter and section
 And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.

 I will return to this soon.

 Tony


 On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>
> Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
> parameter, then going along these lines:
>
> <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
> <$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
> 
>
> As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than 
> that . Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the 
> demo site to build something better (we can build them together, too, I 
> just don't know how collabs work).
>
> I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires 
> the creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having 
> to 
> rely on temporary tiddlers... 樂
>
>
> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> JD,
>>
>> I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.
>>
>> I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and 
>> realised It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.
>>
>> I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you 
>> were to develop it further but as you say this conversation is already 
>> under way.
>>
>> It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>>
>>> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, 
>>> before I read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>>>
>>> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
>>> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>>>
>>> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>>>
>>> EDIT: corrected URL
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 

Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Workflowy looks like it decided to rest on it's laurels before it had any.

For the price of Dynalist, you could get two subscriptions to Evernote. 

None of the cloud-based services seem to promise client-side encryption. 

An outlining tool built on TW might be the killer app (edition) for TW that 
everyone keeps talking about.  I've started on my own "TWFlowy" once or 
twice, built on the TOC macro. Someone who knew what they were doing could 
probably come up with something really nice, with the security of local 
files and the flexibility of TW.

-- Mark


On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 6:25:53 AM UTC-7, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Seems like a lot of effort when there are better tools for writing and 
> outlining, like Dynalist or Workflowy.
>
> David Gifford
> Mexico team leader, Mexico City
>
> *Resonate Global Mission*
> *Engaging People. Embracing Christ.*
> A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
> resonateglobalmission.org
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 8:17 AM, JD  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right? 
>>
>> If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. And 
>> instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text 
>> (while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think? 
>>
>> My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + 
>> lots of overtime gets in the way)
>>
>> This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a novelette. 
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>>
>>> JD,
>>>
>>> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat 
>>> hijacking the thread?
>>>
>>> Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it would 
>>> be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that are 
>>> tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro
>>>
>>> I think there would be value being able to specify more than one filter 
>>> as you suggest.
>>>
>>> For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped 
>>> inside the first?
>>>
>>> Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph
>>>
>>> So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the 
>>> same chapter and section
>>> And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.
>>>
>>> I will return to this soon.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:

 Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
 parameter, then going along these lines:

 <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
 <$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
 

 As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than 
 that . Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the 
 demo site to build something better (we can build them together, too, I 
 just don't know how collabs work).

 I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires 
 the creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having 
 to 
 rely on temporary tiddlers... 樂


 On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>
> JD,
>
> I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.
>
> I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and 
> realised It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.
>
> I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were 
> to develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under 
> way.
>
> It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.
>
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>
>> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, 
>> before I read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>>
>> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
>> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>>
>> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>>
>> EDIT: corrected URL
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>>  
>>>
>>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
>>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
>>> 
>>>
>>>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate 
>>> and $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the 
>>> required functionality.
>>>  
>>> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>>>  
>>>
>>> 
>>> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>>> {{||move-up 

Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[JD]

Haha!  Oh well... sometimes the tool creation is as exciting as the use 
of the tool itself, at least for me. I get to know Tiddlywiki more with all 
these toying around.


On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 10:25:53 PM UTC+9, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Seems like a lot of effort when there are better tools for writing and 
> outlining, like Dynalist or Workflowy.
>
> David Gifford
> Mexico team leader, Mexico City
>
> *Resonate Global Mission*
> *Engaging People. Embracing Christ.*
> A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
> resonateglobalmission.org
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 8:17 AM, JD  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right? 
>>
>> If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. And 
>> instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text 
>> (while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think? 
>>
>> My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + 
>> lots of overtime gets in the way)
>>
>> This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a novelette. 
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>>
>>> JD,
>>>
>>> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat 
>>> hijacking the thread?
>>>
>>> Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it would 
>>> be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that are 
>>> tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro
>>>
>>> I think there would be value being able to specify more than one filter 
>>> as you suggest.
>>>
>>> For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped 
>>> inside the first?
>>>
>>> Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph
>>>
>>> So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the 
>>> same chapter and section
>>> And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.
>>>
>>> I will return to this soon.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:

 Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
 parameter, then going along these lines:

 <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
 <$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
 

 As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than 
 that . Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the 
 demo site to build something better (we can build them together, too, I 
 just don't know how collabs work).

 I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires 
 the creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having 
 to 
 rely on temporary tiddlers... 樂


 On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>
> JD,
>
> I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.
>
> I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and 
> realised It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.
>
> I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were 
> to develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under 
> way.
>
> It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.
>
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>
>> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, 
>> before I read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>>
>> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
>> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>>
>> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>>
>> EDIT: corrected URL
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>>  
>>>
>>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
>>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
>>> 
>>>
>>>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate 
>>> and $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the 
>>> required functionality.
>>>  
>>> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>>>  
>>>
>>> 
>>> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>>> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
>>> <$view field=title />
>>> 
>>> <$transclude />
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
>>> sections up and down.
>>>  
>>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>>>
 You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a 

Re: [tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[David Gifford]

Seems like a lot of effort when there are better tools for writing and
outlining, like Dynalist or Workflowy.

David Gifford
Mexico team leader, Mexico City

*Resonate Global Mission*
*Engaging People. Embracing Christ.*
A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
resonateglobalmission.org


On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 8:17 AM, JD  wrote:

> Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right?
>
> If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. And
> instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text
> (while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think?
>
> My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + lots
> of overtime gets in the way)
>
> This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a novelette.
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> JD,
>>
>> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat
>> hijacking the thread?
>>
>> Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it would
>> be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that are
>> tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro
>>
>> I think there would be value being able to specify more than one filter
>> as you suggest.
>>
>> For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped
>> inside the first?
>>
>> Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph
>>
>> So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the same
>> chapter and section
>> And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.
>>
>> I will return to this soon.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional
>>> parameter, then going along these lines:
>>>
>>> <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
>>> <$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
>>> 
>>>
>>> As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than
>>> that . Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the
>>> demo site to build something better (we can build them together, too, I
>>> just don't know how collabs work).
>>>
>>> I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires
>>> the creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having to
>>> rely on temporary tiddlers... 樂
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:

 JD,

 I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.

 I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and
 realised It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.

 I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were
 to develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under 
 way.

 It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.


 Regards
 Tony

 On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>
> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing,
> before I read your post, and now I feel stupid lol
>
> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here
> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>
> EDIT: corrected URL
>
>
> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>
>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>
>>
>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate"
>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}}
>> />
>> 
>>
>>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate
>> and $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required
>> functionality.
>>
>> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>>
>>
>> 
>> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
>> <$view field=title />
>> 
>> <$transclude />
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or
>> sections up and down.
>>
>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>>
>>> You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple
>>> of templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is
>>> actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the
>>> past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles 
>>> manipulation
>>> of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and 
>>> edit
>>> templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, 

[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[JD]

Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right? 

If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. And 
instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text 
(while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think? 

My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + lots 
of overtime gets in the way)

This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a novelette. 


On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>
> JD,
>
> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat 
> hijacking the thread?
>
> Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it would 
> be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that are 
> tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro
>
> I think there would be value being able to specify more than one filter as 
> you suggest.
>
> For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped inside 
> the first?
>
> Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph
>
> So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the same 
> chapter and section
> And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.
>
> I will return to this soon.
>
> Tony
>
>
> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>
>> Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
>> parameter, then going along these lines:
>>
>> <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
>> <$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
>> 
>>
>> As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than 
>> that . Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the 
>> demo site to build something better (we can build them together, too, I 
>> just don't know how collabs work).
>>
>> I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires 
>> the creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having to 
>> rely on temporary tiddlers... 樂
>>
>>
>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>>
>>> JD,
>>>
>>> I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.
>>>
>>> I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and realised 
>>> It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.
>>>
>>> I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were 
>>> to develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under way.
>>>
>>> It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:

 I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, before 
 I read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 

 Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
 http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/

 But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner

 EDIT: corrected URL


 On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>
> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>  
>
> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
> 
>
>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate 
> and $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required 
> functionality.
>  
> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>  
>
> 
> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
> <$view field=title />
> 
> <$transclude />
> 
> 
>
>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
> sections up and down.
>  
> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>
>> You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple 
>> of templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
>> actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the 
>> past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles 
>> manipulation 
>> of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and 
>> edit 
>> templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, 
>> etc.  
>> You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
>> tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, 
>> etc.)  
>> So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with 
>> its 
>> own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just depends 
>> on 
>> what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a 
>> little 
>> tedious creating 

[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[TonyM]

Stephen,

I suppose in some ways it could be but given this can be done with macros 
not plugins and not Javascript it is more likely to provide info regular 
users can use.

Of late even some serious technical issues that I would have thought 
belonged in the Dev group can be found here.

Regards
Tony

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 3:17:31 PM UTC+10, Stephan Hradek wrote:
>
>
>
> Am Dienstag, 10. April 2018 02:17:59 UTC+2 schrieb TonyM:
>>
>> JD,
>>
>> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat 
>> hijacking the thread?
>>
> Isn't this something for the TiddlyWikiDev group? 
>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Stephan Hradek]

Am Dienstag, 10. April 2018 02:17:59 UTC+2 schrieb TonyM:
>
> JD,
>
> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat 
> hijacking the thread?
>
Isn't this something for the TiddlyWikiDev group? 

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[TonyM]

JD,

Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat 
hijacking the thread?

Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it would be 
nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that are tagged 
by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro

I think there would be value being able to specify more than one filter as 
you suggest.

For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped inside 
the first?

Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph

So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the same 
chapter and section
And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.

I will return to this soon.

Tony


On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>
> Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
> parameter, then going along these lines:
>
> <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
> <$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
> 
>
> As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than 
> that . Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the demo 
> site to build something better (we can build them together, too, I just 
> don't know how collabs work).
>
> I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires the 
> creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having to 
> rely on temporary tiddlers... 樂
>
>
> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> JD,
>>
>> I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.
>>
>> I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and realised 
>> It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.
>>
>> I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were to 
>> develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under way.
>>
>> It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>>
>>> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, before 
>>> I read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>>>
>>> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
>>> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>>>
>>> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>>>
>>> EDIT: corrected URL
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:

 Here's a barebones template to start from:
  

 <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
 {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
 <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
 editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
 emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
 

  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate 
 and $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required 
 functionality.
  
 For example the view template could be as simple as:
  

 
 {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
 {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
 <$view field=title />
 
 <$transclude />
 
 

  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
 sections up and down.
  
 On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:

> You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple 
> of templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
> actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the 
> past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles 
> manipulation 
> of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and 
> edit 
> templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, etc. 
>  
> You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
> tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, 
> etc.)  
> So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with 
> its 
> own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just depends 
> on 
> what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a little 
> tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the various 
> templates and buttons, etc.
>  
> On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>
>> I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler by 
>> its fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, links, 
>> images..), or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS 
>> LONG 
>> AS you have the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window of 
>> that primary tiddler. 
>>
>> Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate 
>> paragraphs by excising those paragraphs into 

[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[JD]

Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
parameter, then going along these lines:

<$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
<$transclude tiddler=<> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>


As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than that 
. Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the demo site 
to build something better (we can build them together, too, I just don't 
know how collabs work).

I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires the 
creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having to 
rely on temporary tiddlers... 樂


On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>
> JD,
>
> I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.
>
> I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and realised 
> It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.
>
> I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were to 
> develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under way.
>
> It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.
>
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>
>> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, before I 
>> read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>>
>> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
>> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>>
>> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>>
>> EDIT: corrected URL
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>>  
>>>
>>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
>>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
>>> 
>>>
>>>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate and 
>>> $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required 
>>> functionality.
>>>  
>>> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>>>  
>>>
>>> 
>>> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>>> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
>>> <$view field=title />
>>> 
>>> <$transclude />
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
>>> sections up and down.
>>>  
>>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>>>
 You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple of 
 templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
 actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the 
 past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles manipulation 
 of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and 
 edit 
 templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, etc.  
 You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
 tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, etc.) 
  
 So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with its 
 own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just depends 
 on 
 what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a little 
 tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the various 
 templates and buttons, etc.
  
 On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:

> I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler by 
> its fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, links, 
> images..), or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS 
> LONG 
> AS you have the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window of 
> that primary tiddler. 
>
> Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate 
> paragraphs by excising those paragraphs into different tiddlers makes the 
> editing very cumbersome: you have to jump to those new tiddlers to edit 
> them and then come back to the primary tiddler to see the integral 
> result. 
>


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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[TonyM]

JD,

I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.

I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and realised It 
would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.

I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were to 
develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under way.

It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.


Regards
Tony

On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>
> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, before I 
> read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>
> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>
> EDIT: corrected URL
>
>
> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>
>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>  
>>
>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
>> 
>>
>>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate and 
>> $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required 
>> functionality.
>>  
>> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>>  
>>
>> 
>> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
>> <$view field=title />
>> 
>> <$transclude />
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
>> sections up and down.
>>  
>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>>
>>> You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple of 
>>> templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
>>> actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the 
>>> past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles manipulation 
>>> of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and edit 
>>> templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, etc.  
>>> You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
>>> tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, etc.)  
>>> So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with its 
>>> own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just depends on 
>>> what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a little 
>>> tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the various 
>>> templates and buttons, etc.
>>>  
>>> On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>>>
 I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler by 
 its fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, links, 
 images..), or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS LONG 
 AS you have the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window of 
 that primary tiddler. 

 Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate paragraphs 
 by excising those paragraphs into different tiddlers makes the editing 
 very 
 cumbersome: you have to jump to those new tiddlers to edit them and then 
 come back to the primary tiddler to see the integral result. 

>>>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[JD]

Thanks Vytas! You might want to update your copy of the macro.

I just added an action to the save and cancel buttons that will 
automatically delete the temporary tiddlers created. 

for your reference: http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/

On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 9:14:25 PM UTC+9, Vytas wrote:
>
> Stephan, thank you for replying to my questions!
>
> zemoxian, your "barebones template" seems to be easy, but contains a lot!
>
> JD, your paragraphs macro looks really nice. I find it very convenient, 
> the way the edit-window replaces the view-window of the paragraph and at 
> the same time you retain the view of all the other paragraphs!
>
> Now, there is for me a lot to learn: navigator and reveal widgets, custom 
> edit/view templates, usage of buttons and so on. Wonderful!   
>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[JD]

Hey thanks! 

I think this is similar to Mat's concept! I'm looking forward to his 
SuperTiddlers release 朗


On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 10:43:24 PM UTC+9, David Gifford wrote:
>
> This is so cool I just added it to the TiddlyWiki toolmap under 'Writing 
> and editing - transclusion'
>
> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 11:09:28 PM UTC-5, JD wrote:
>>
>> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, before I 
>> read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>>
>> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
>> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>>
>> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>>
>> EDIT: corrected URL
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>>  
>>>
>>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
>>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
>>> 
>>>
>>>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate and 
>>> $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required 
>>> functionality.
>>>  
>>> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>>>  
>>>
>>> 
>>> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>>> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
>>> <$view field=title />
>>> 
>>> <$transclude />
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
>>> sections up and down.
>>>  
>>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>>>
 You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple of 
 templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
 actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the 
 past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles manipulation 
 of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and 
 edit 
 templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, etc.  
 You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
 tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, etc.) 
  
 So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with its 
 own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just depends 
 on 
 what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a little 
 tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the various 
 templates and buttons, etc.
  
 On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:

> I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler by 
> its fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, links, 
> images..), or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS 
> LONG 
> AS you have the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window of 
> that primary tiddler. 
>
> Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate 
> paragraphs by excising those paragraphs into different tiddlers makes the 
> editing very cumbersome: you have to jump to those new tiddlers to edit 
> them and then come back to the primary tiddler to see the integral 
> result. 
>


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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[David Gifford]

This is so cool I just added it to the TiddlyWiki toolmap under 'Writing 
and editing - transclusion'

On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 11:09:28 PM UTC-5, JD wrote:
>
> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, before I 
> read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>
> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>
> EDIT: corrected URL
>
>
> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>
>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>  
>>
>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
>> 
>>
>>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate and 
>> $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required 
>> functionality.
>>  
>> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>>  
>>
>> 
>> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
>> <$view field=title />
>> 
>> <$transclude />
>> 
>> 
>>
>>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
>> sections up and down.
>>  
>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>>
>>> You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple of 
>>> templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
>>> actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the 
>>> past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles manipulation 
>>> of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and edit 
>>> templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, etc.  
>>> You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
>>> tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, etc.)  
>>> So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with its 
>>> own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just depends on 
>>> what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a little 
>>> tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the various 
>>> templates and buttons, etc.
>>>  
>>> On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>>>
 I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler by 
 its fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, links, 
 images..), or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS LONG 
 AS you have the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window of 
 that primary tiddler. 

 Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate paragraphs 
 by excising those paragraphs into different tiddlers makes the editing 
 very 
 cumbersome: you have to jump to those new tiddlers to edit them and then 
 come back to the primary tiddler to see the integral result. 

>>>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

['Vytas' via TiddlyWiki]

Stephan, thank you for replying to my questions!

zemoxian, your "barebones template" seems to be easy, but contains a lot!

JD, your paragraphs macro looks really nice. I find it very convenient, the 
way the edit-window replaces the view-window of the paragraph and at the 
same time you retain the view of all the other paragraphs!

Now, there is for me a lot to learn: navigator and reveal widgets, custom 
edit/view templates, usage of buttons and so on. Wonderful!   

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Mat]

Interrim step (at least for what I'm aiming for)

\define qualstate() <>

\define transedit()
<$set name=currlist value="[tag]">
<$list filter=<> variable="theTiddler">
<$wikify name=state text=<>>
<$reveal type="nomatch" state=<> text="show">

<$button class="tc-btn-invisible tc-tiddlylink" set=<> 
setTo="show">{{$:/core/images/edit-button}}
<$transclude tiddler=<> />

<$reveal type="match" state=<> text="show">

<$button set=<> setTo="hide" class="tc-btn-invisible 
tc-tiddlylink">{{$:/core/images/edit-button}}


<$edit-text tiddler=<>/>






\end

My intention is to style the editor as per Birthes note above but also the 
edit button so that it floats on the left rather than in the text area and 
so that this button only shows when hovering the text section. Make the 
edit icon faint until section hover.

Actually, this is beginning to resemble one of my zillion unpublished 
projects, humbly called SuperTiddlers > 
\define transedit() <$set name=currlist value="[tag]"> 
<$list filter=<> variable="theTiddler"> <$wikify name=state 
text=<>> <$reveal type="nomatch" state=<> text="show"> 
<$button class="tc-btn-invisible tc-tiddlylink" set=<> 
setTo="show">{{$:/core/images/edit-button}} <$transclude 
tiddler=<> />  <$reveal type="match" state=<> 
text="show"> <$button set=<> setTo="hide" class="tc-btn-invisible 
tc-tiddlylink">{{$:/core/images/edit-button}}  <$edit-text 
tiddler=<>/> \end My 
intention is to style the editor as per Birthes note above but also the 
edit button so that it floats on the left rather than in the text area and 
so that this button only shows when hovering the text section. Make the 
edit icon faint until section hover. Actually, this is beginning to 
resemble one of my zillion unpublished projects, humbly called 
SuperTiddlers.> (unpublished because it is not ready, as you'll note if you 
go there). The concept consists of several ideas, but the mainthing is to 
transclude other tiddlers into one but also in edit mode with editors for 
those other tiddlers. One particular idea is to apply this to split up 
stylesheets instead of having the current monolithic mammoth. But overall 
the purpose is to assemble linear narrative tiddlers. BTW that project was 
a while ago so there may be other less relevant bits there also. It was 
intended for a more full conceptual 'edition'.


<:-)

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Mat]

Stephan Hradek wrote:
>
>
> But I think you're making it too complicated. 
>

> Remember what I wrote? The "3 tiddler" are just one string which is used 
> as a filter. So why not use your filter instead of using the filter to 
> create a string and then using that string again as a filter? Want to try? 
> Put trans-edit again into tiddlywiki.com and create atiddler with this 
> contents:
>

*DOH! Brilliance again! Haha!!!*

<:-)

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Stephan Hradek]

Am Sonntag, 8. April 2018 03:57:11 UTC+2 schrieb Mat:
>
> Then, to almost automatically create articles, put this in a conditional 
> viewtemplate 
> . This 
> means that all (and only) tiddlers tagged e.g "article" will show the 
> sub-section aggregation.
>
… With the downside that you are not able to define their sequence.

You would need to have a field in each tiddler which would define the order 
in which to transclude them and put a sort into your filter.

But I think you're making it too complicated.

Remember what I wrote? The "3 tiddler" are just one string which is used as 
a filter. So why not use your filter instead of using the filter to create 
a string and then using that string again as a filter? Want to try? Put 
trans-edit again into tiddlywiki.com and create atiddler with this contents:

{{
[tag[TableOfContents]]
||
trans-edit
}}

Still: There is no order. You would need an order field in each tiddler and 
then you could use something like:

{{
[tag[TableOfContents]sort[orderfield]]
||
trans-edit
}}




 

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[JD]

I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, before I 
read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 

Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
http://j.d.test2.tiddlyspot.com/

But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner


On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>
> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>  
>
> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
> 
>
>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate and 
> $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required 
> functionality.
>  
> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>  
>
> 
> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
> <$view field=title />
> 
> <$transclude />
> 
> 
>
>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
> sections up and down.
>  
> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>
>> You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple of 
>> templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
>> actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the 
>> past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles manipulation 
>> of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and edit 
>> templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, etc.  
>> You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
>> tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, etc.)  
>> So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with its 
>> own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just depends on 
>> what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a little 
>> tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the various 
>> templates and buttons, etc.
>>  
>> On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>>
>>> I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler by its 
>>> fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, links, images..), 
>>> or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS LONG AS you have 
>>> the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window of that primary 
>>> tiddler. 
>>>
>>> Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate paragraphs 
>>> by excising those paragraphs into different tiddlers makes the editing very 
>>> cumbersome: you have to jump to those new tiddlers to edit them and then 
>>> come back to the primary tiddler to see the integral result. 
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[zemoxian]

Here's a barebones template to start from:
 

<$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
{{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
<$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />


 You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate and 
$:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the required 
functionality.
 
For example the view template could be as simple as:
 


{{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
{{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
<$view field=title />

<$transclude />



 The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
sections up and down.
 
On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:

> You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple of 
> templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
> actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the 
> past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles manipulation 
> of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and edit 
> templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, etc.  
> You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
> tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, etc.)  
> So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with its 
> own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just depends on 
> what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a little 
> tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the various 
> templates and buttons, etc.
>  
> On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>
>> I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler by its 
>> fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, links, images..), 
>> or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS LONG AS you have 
>> the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window of that primary 
>> tiddler. 
>>
>> Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate paragraphs 
>> by excising those paragraphs into different tiddlers makes the editing very 
>> cumbersome: you have to jump to those new tiddlers to edit them and then 
>> come back to the primary tiddler to see the integral result. 
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[zemoxian]

You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a couple of 
templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  This is 
actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this in the 
past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles manipulation 
of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and edit 
templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, etc.  
You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder the 
tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, etc.)  
So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with its 
own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just depends on 
what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a little 
tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the various 
templates and buttons, etc.

On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>
> I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler by its 
> fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, links, images..), 
> or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS LONG AS you have 
> the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window of that primary 
> tiddler. 
>
> Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate paragraphs by 
> excising those paragraphs into different tiddlers makes the editing very 
> cumbersome: you have to jump to those new tiddlers to edit them and then 
> come back to the primary tiddler to see the integral result. 
>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Mat]

Stephan - terrific stuff!

Mark S. wrote:
>
> It's a very clever re-factoring of existing abilities, though. Maybe an 
> additional example in the "templates" part of the documentation would be in 
> order.
>

Not sure it is a "re-factoring" as much as an understanding: I thought the 
prerequisite for a {{A||B}} was that the A is an *existing *tiddler, i.e 
that the template transclusion "started" with tiddler A and then applied 
template B to it. But apparently it can be a missing tiddler, i.e really a 
just a string [of characters], because the template transclusion starts 
with the template B and applies [the string] A to it. This is not clear in 
the docs, AFAIK.

...but even with this knowledge it is extremely clever of Stephan to 
realize it could be used in that context!


*More general solution*

Considering how A B C are intended as sub-sections for some tiddler (lets 
call it "myarticle"), then instead of hard coding the sub-sections, i.e

{{[[A]] [[B]] [[C]]||trans-edit}}

you can have the sub-section tiddlers tagged "myarticle" and do something 
like this:

\define transedit() {{$(taggedcurr)$||trans-edit}}

<$set name=taggedcurr filter="[tag]">
<>



Then, to almost automatically create articles, put this in a conditional 
viewtemplate 
. This 
means that all (and only) tiddlers tagged e.g "article" will show the 
sub-section aggregation.

<:-)

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[zemoxian]

This sounds similar to slices in TW2.
I used to add slices like

Description: *description of tiddler*

Then just the description could be transcluded in other tiddlers.  You 
could also transcluded sections using header titles.  The slices 
functionality seems to have been moved to data tiddlers in TW5 and section 
references removed all together.

Slices were a little awkward to work with sometimes. If you didn't want 
them visible in text you had to put them inside comments.  Same with 
sections.  OTOH, this allowed you to put multiple templates in the same 
tiddler and reference them individually.  This is sort of like TW5 plugin 
functionality, I guess.

I sort of took a break from TiddlyWiki between the transition from TW2 and 
TW5 so my TW2 knowledge is hazy now.  I suppose there are pros nd cons to 
both methods.

On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 6:59:52 PM UTC-4, Diego Mesa wrote:

> I think all of this would be made much simpler if there was a quick and 
> easy way to add/edit tiddler fields. SOmething like this in the body 
> textarea of a tiddler:
>
> (=myNewField
> bl h 
> asd
> sd
> sf
> sdf
> =)
>
> or in a special "field" textarea, collapsable right under the 
> textarea/body. 
>
> With this in place, yuo could easily crea/tedit/remove "fields" which are 
> in essence, structured/tagged portions of a tiddler (dont believe me, just 
> check a .tid file!)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-5, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> Vytas,
>>
>> I totaly support Jeds points. 
>>
>> Have you used the excise tool using the editor tool bar. This will help 
>> divide text into tiddlers while retaining a single view.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Diego Mesa]

I'd like to pause for a second here - this could be a really really cool 
way to mirror something like wikipedia's edit capabilities where you can 
edit sections of something. 

On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 4:32:39 PM UTC-5, Mark S. wrote:
>
> It's a very clever re-factoring of existing abilities, though. Maybe an 
> additional example in the "templates" part of the documentation would be in 
> order.
>
> Thanks!
> Mark 
>
> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 2:02:57 PM UTC-7, Stephan Hradek wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Am Samstag, 7. April 2018 19:27:14 UTC+2 schrieb Mark S.:
>>>
>>> I had no idea that you could apply a template to more than one tiddler 
>>> at a time. Is this in the documentation some place?
>>>
>> See my reply above: I simply provide just one tiddler title, which 
>> happens to look like 3, to trans-edit. The usage of this title as a filter 
>> results in the interpretation of this title as neing 3 tiddlers.
>>
>> So no: It's not in the documentation because it need not be ;) 
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

It's a very clever re-factoring of existing abilities, though. Maybe an 
additional example in the "templates" part of the documentation would be in 
order.

Thanks!
Mark 

On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 2:02:57 PM UTC-7, Stephan Hradek wrote:
>
>
>
> Am Samstag, 7. April 2018 19:27:14 UTC+2 schrieb Mark S.:
>>
>> I had no idea that you could apply a template to more than one tiddler at 
>> a time. Is this in the documentation some place?
>>
> See my reply above: I simply provide just one tiddler title, which happens 
> to look like 3, to trans-edit. The usage of this title as a filter results 
> in the interpretation of this title as neing 3 tiddlers.
>
> So no: It's not in the documentation because it need not be ;) 
>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Stephan Hradek]

Am Samstag, 7. April 2018 19:27:14 UTC+2 schrieb Mark S.:
>
> I had no idea that you could apply a template to more than one tiddler at 
> a time. Is this in the documentation some place?
>
See my reply above: I simply provide just one tiddler title, which happens 
to look like 3, to trans-edit. The usage of this title as a filter results 
in the interpretation of this title as neing 3 tiddlers.

So no: It's not in the documentation because it need not be ;) 

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Stephan Hradek]

Am Samstag, 7. April 2018 17:06:12 UTC+2 schrieb JD:
>
> This is really cool! 
>
> I'd go with the reveal-widget (instead of a modal) to edit the paragraphs 
> in place, unless there's a con to that method?
>
I didn't use reveal because I got the feeling that it'll be too much code. 
But I might be wrong. 

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[Stephan Hradek]

Am Samstag, 7. April 2018 14:56:19 UTC+2 schrieb Vytas:
>
>
> {{[[A]][[B]][[C]]||trans-edit}}
> it brings the titles A, B and C as values to the "trans-edit" piece of 
> code,
>

Nope. It brings "[[A]][[B]][[C]]" as one tiddler title (in 
<>) to trans-edit.
 

> which then provides the listing of the edit-buttons together with the 
> content of the A, B and C tiddlers.
>

The <$list> in trans-edit uses the currentTiddler title as a filter, thus 
interpreting our string "[[A]][[B]][[C]]"  as being the 3 tiddler titles A, 
B and C.
 

>
> However, what is happening when the the code of "trans-edit" is being run 
> independently, that is, when there are no tiddler titles provided for the 
> filter operator in the "trans-edit" tiddler? Do I understand it correctly, 
> that, in this case, the value of <> is "trans-edit" and 
> that is why the "trans-edit" tiddler tries to include itself into itself 
> and the result is: "Recursive transclusion error in transclude widget", 
> which I see in the view-window of "trans-edit"?
>

That's correct.

 

>  Is it alright to see this error or could it be somehow avoided?
>

If I'm not mistaken ths is okay and can be seen with some standard 
templates in TW5 itself.
 

>
> By the way, is it correct, that the fact that "the code of tiddlers is 
> being run continuously", is responsible for the thing, that it will never 
> be possible to edit tiddlers from the EDIT-window of some other tiddler, 
> that is, you have to have a button to run the editting only once (and not 
> continuously)?
>

No. This is because the edit tiddler simply is not prepared for this. You 
could create your own edit window, maybe, which could doe stuff like this.

 

>   
>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I had no idea that you could apply a template to more than one tiddler at a 
time. Is this in the documentation some place?

Thanks!
-- Mark

On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 1:40:23 AM UTC-7, Stephan Hradek wrote:
>
> I've created a small example for you to reproduce on tiddlywiki.com
>
> Create some paragraph tiddlers. I've called them A, B and C containing 
> some Lorem Ipsum text .
>
> Example
>
> AA 
> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aliquam eget ex 
> nunc. Maecenas blandit efficitur erat a malesuada. Vivamus sit.
> AA
>
> Then I creted 2 tiddlers which are the "workhorses":
>
> trans-editor:
> <$edit-text tiddler=<>/>
>
> and trans-edit
> <$list filter=<> variable="theTiddler">
>
> <$button class="tc-btn-invisible tc-tiddlylink">
> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-modal" $param="trans-editor" 
> tiddler2edit=<> />
> {{$:/core/images/edit-button}}
>  <$transclude tiddler=<> />
>
> 
>
> Finally create your tiddler which will transclude all your paragraph 
> tiddlers:
>
> {{
> [[A]]
> [[B]]
> [[C]]
> ||
> trans-edit
> }}
>
>
> This will show all the paragraphs prepended with an edit-icon.
>
> When you click it, a modal window will appear allowing you to edit the 
> content of the paragraph.
>
> Tasks left for you: Create some nice CSS to make the edit window appear in 
> a size you like. Currently it's quite small.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

That's a great idea! It would be helpful if it opened "taller" as well.

-- Mark

On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 2:08:26 AM UTC-7, Birthe C wrote:
>
> Hi Stephan,
>
> That is really nice, thank you.
>
> For trans-editor
> <$edit-text tiddler=<> class="full-width"/>
>
>
> 
> .full-width {width: 100%;}
> 
>
> Birthe
>
> Den fredag den 6. april 2018 kl. 10.40.23 UTC+2 skrev Stephan Hradek:
>>
>> I've created a small example for you to reproduce on tiddlywiki.com
>>
>> Create some paragraph tiddlers. I've called them A, B and C containing 
>> some Lorem Ipsum text .
>>
>> Example
>>
>> AA 
>> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aliquam eget ex 
>> nunc. Maecenas blandit efficitur erat a malesuada. Vivamus sit.
>> AA
>>
>> Then I creted 2 tiddlers which are the "workhorses":
>>
>> trans-editor:
>> <$edit-text tiddler=<>/>
>>
>> and trans-edit
>> <$list filter=<> variable="theTiddler">
>>
>> <$button class="tc-btn-invisible tc-tiddlylink">
>> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-modal" $param="trans-editor" 
>> tiddler2edit=<> />
>> {{$:/core/images/edit-button}}
>>  <$transclude tiddler=<> />
>>
>> 
>>
>> Finally create your tiddler which will transclude all your paragraph 
>> tiddlers:
>>
>> {{
>> [[A]]
>> [[B]]
>> [[C]]
>> ||
>> trans-edit
>> }}
>>
>>
>> This will show all the paragraphs prepended with an edit-icon.
>>
>> When you click it, a modal window will appear allowing you to edit the 
>> content of the paragraph.
>>
>> Tasks left for you: Create some nice CSS to make the edit window appear 
>> in a size you like. Currently it's quite small.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

[JD]

This is really cool! 

I'd go with the reveal-widget (instead of a modal) to edit the paragraphs 
in place, unless there's a con to that method?



On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 5:40:23 PM UTC+9, Stephan Hradek wrote:
>
> I've created a small example for you to reproduce on tiddlywiki.com
>
> Create some paragraph tiddlers. I've called them A, B and C containing 
> some Lorem Ipsum text .
>
> Example
>
> AA 
> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aliquam eget ex 
> nunc. Maecenas blandit efficitur erat a malesuada. Vivamus sit.
> AA
>
> Then I creted 2 tiddlers which are the "workhorses":
>
> trans-editor:
> <$edit-text tiddler=<>/>
>
> and trans-edit
> <$list filter=<> variable="theTiddler">
>
> <$button class="tc-btn-invisible tc-tiddlylink">
> <$action-sendmessage $message="tm-modal" $param="trans-editor" 
> tiddler2edit=<> />
> {{$:/core/images/edit-button}}
>  <$transclude tiddler=<> />
>
> 
>
> Finally create your tiddler which will transclude all your paragraph 
> tiddlers:
>
> {{
> [[A]]
> [[B]]
> [[C]]
> ||
> trans-edit
> }}
>
>
> This will show all the paragraphs prepended with an edit-icon.
>
> When you click it, a modal window will appear allowing you to edit the 
> content of the paragraph.
>
> Tasks left for you: Create some nice CSS to make the edit window appear in 
> a size you like. Currently it's quite small.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[tw5] Re: How to tag separate paragraphs in different tiddlers and then transclude them?

['Vytas' via TiddlyWiki]

Stephan,

thank you for supplying such a nice reply! This is probably the way I would 
like to move along. 

To improve my knowledge of TiddlyWiki, I'm trying to understand the code 
pieces you supplied. 
I believe, I more or less understand it, except for the exact way how the 
variable <> is being used. 

If I get it correctly, TiddlyWiki code is, in some sense, being run 
continuously, and whenever it finds itself at the place of 
{{[[A]][[B]][[C]]||trans-edit}}
it brings the titles A, B and C as values to the "trans-edit" piece of 
code, which then provides the listing of the edit-buttons together with the 
content of the A, B and C tiddlers.

However, what is happening when the the code of "trans-edit" is being run 
independently, that is, when there are no tiddler titles provided for the 
filter operator in the "trans-edit" tiddler? Do I understand it correctly, 
that, in this case, the value of <> is "trans-edit" and 
that is why the "trans-edit" tiddler tries to include itself into itself 
and the result is: "Recursive transclusion error in transclude widget", 
which I see in the view-window of "trans-edit"? 

Is it alright to see this error or could it be somehow avoided?
  

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