Merle,br/br/You express yourself and your understanding of the world well.
I would love to see you rework this poem as your eyes become 'clearer' and keep
reposting it here. What do you think?br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from
Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Mike,
I honestly don't know the figures. There are several professional groups I
support which lobby for the proper teaching of Science in schools, here.
I haven't lived in States that are vehemently Bible-Thumping, but in my youth I
have known some people who were, but not for long (did I
Merle,
Now, now; an Americano is a cup of American coffee at a fancy coffee
restaurant: one shot of Espresso diluted with hot water to fill a large cup.
I take mine black, no sugar, no nada.
--Joe
Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
mike..what do ya expect from the average americano...
bill..
what a beautiful poem hui neng has crafted..
i see the site also has information..that i have investigated..t
he bottom line to zen..
is that enlightenment that cannot be grasped with any tools please correct me
if i am incorrect
has edgar been aware that is the way of zen?
maybe his
mike... i will try...thank you for your encouragement..merle
Merle,
You express yourself and your understanding of the world well. I would love to
see you rework this poem as your eyes become 'clearer' and keep reposting it
here. What do you think?
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Merle,
This 'unable to grasp' is indeed the crux of the disagreement between Edgar and
me - that and some less important semantic issues.
For me 'to grasp' means 'to understand'. Understanding is an intellectual
process, and yes it is also my opinion that Edgar puts a good deal of emphasis
There have been occasions where Japanese mistook me as another Japanese. So,
I'm pretty sure I'm not blonde ;-)
Siska
-Original Message-
From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 21:36:01
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Reply-To:
Hi Joe,
I think that sounds better :-)
Siska
-Original Message-
From: Joe desert_woodwor...@yahoo.com
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 02:33:24
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill!
Siska,
Hi Merle,
There're so many beautiful textiles in Indonesia. Each of our province would
have its own uniqueness, not only batik.
Well I guess we can't compare our images/impressions of Jakarta because you
don't know about nowadays Jakarta and I know nothing about 1974 Jakarta (wasn't
born yet
Siska,
Do you look something like this?
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@... wrote:
There have been occasions where Japanese mistook me as another
Japanese. So, I'm pretty sure I'm not blonde ;-)
Siska
-Original Message-
From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@...
Sender:
Hi Mike,
I came from Buddhist family. My friends from Amaravati (monastery in north of
London) called my 'born Buddhist'. So I cannot imagine myself if I were your
friend either.
The retreats that I attend are conducted in a Buddhist monastery. However, only
a few of the participants are
mike..that is not niceee..why would u think so?..merle
Merle,
Pity. They'd probably learn more about society, people and culture if they
watched programmes such as South Park, The Simpsons, The Colbert Report, Jon
Stewart etc.
The specific I was referencing was the one
mike
huh?
merle
Merle,
How does being a Taoist change the quality of caring, accepting and
non-judgement, if at all?
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
joe..did freud die of cancer? jung was not all goodness and light
either...merle
Edgar, Merle,
I think Freud was a bit fetishistic about cigars, tho'.
Well, he and Bill Clinton. ;-)
And Philip Morris?
--Joe
PS Edgar, did Freud collect only artifacts (vs. antiquities?) of Primitive
joe..are you free of self?
merle
Merle,
quoting:
when we discard 'self' and stand naked as 'non self' are we liberated? are we
free?
Yes.
We are free.
When there is no self, Wisdom and Compassion arise spontaneously, in EXACT
accord with real circumstances and events.
We are also
Mike,
That was right speech.
A little lesson in Buddhism for you.
Right speech (and thought) have to do with telling the truth, not coddling the
emotionally needy...
Edgar
On May 22, 2013, at 11:28 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Edgar,
You can't preach Right Thoughts and then
Merle,
These are the easy ones for the emotionally touchy feelly Pollyannas.
Try seeing awakening in the Boston bombing and the Oklahoma tornado.
Those are equally part of reality
And even more difficult try seeing awakening in the drivel that gets posted to
this group!
:-)
Edgar
On
Bill,
Everyone that has ever existed has been a Buddha. Yes, even you though I
sometimes have my doubts!
Whether they realize their Buddhahood or not is what counts..
Edgar
On May 22, 2013, at 11:37 PM, Bill! wrote:
Merle,
Buddhism teaches there have been many, many Buddhas:
Mike,
Yes, my opinion of him just rose considerably!
:-)
Edgar
On May 22, 2013, at 11:38 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
His wife was 22 years younger?!! ... sweeet..
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: Joe desert_woodwor...@yahoo.com;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Merle,
But I'm not wearing underpants!
:-)
Edgar
On May 22, 2013, at 11:38 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
i wondered too if he was or had pedophile tendencies...
he must have been the man who loved all children..
there is no crime in that..as jesus said: become liken as a
pooh..to you too..merle
Merle,
These are the easy ones for the emotionally touchy feelly Pollyannas.
Try seeing awakening in the Boston bombing and the Oklahoma tornado.
Those are equally part of reality
And even more difficult try seeing awakening in the drivel that gets posted to
edgar..we are all emotionally needing..you included..merle
Mike,
That was right speech.
A little lesson in Buddhism for you.
Right speech (and thought) have to do with telling the truth, not coddling the
emotionally needy...
Edgar
On May 22, 2013, at 11:28 PM,
Mike,
It's true you don't have to ask anyone if you are enlightened - if you really
are.
However there are plenty of people who think they are enlightened because
somebody gave them a yam leaf diploma when they aren't.
That being said everyone is already enlightened. It's just that a lot of
Mike,
O Boy, here we go again with the insipid comic book zen
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 12:25 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Merle,
If you've ever watched South Park you'll understand!
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com;
To:
Mike,
Yes, Rumi and a number of the other Islamic poets from the golden age express
some excellent insights...
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 12:37 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Siska,
I have a good friend in Jakarta. She follows Islam and is quite aware of the
work of the Sufis. We
Bill,
As Hui Neng said there is nothing to wash clean, there is no mirror to dust.
Even the dust is dustless!
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 1:24 AM, Bill! wrote:
Merle,
You brain (mind/intellect) is not 'washed clean' but your attachments to your
illusions (artifacts of the intellect) are
Merle,
Is that little third eye you think you see reality through the one in your
underpants?
:-)
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 1:31 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
yes bill..
you are indeed patient and kind
thank you once again...
your clarification helps me no end
i see now with my
yes edgar..it would. you and your absolute need for the dolly bird
can't you get on with your own peers?...
needy for someone younger?
what to nurse you through your twilight years...?..
where's the enlightenment there?
merle
Mike,
Yes, my opinion of him just rose
Lousy translation mine is much better... I've posted it here before but no
doubt it sailed over everyone's heads!
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 1:37 AM, Bill! wrote:
Merle,
I don't think you can 'over polish' in the way I meant to use it. I meant it
to mean wipe away all traces of self and
Joe,
You wrote, Sheng Yen afterward became such a great, detailed, teacher of
practice methods:
In other words Sheng Yen used his rational mind and reason to instruct because
he understood the value of the rational mind in traveling the path to
enlightenment which is what I say here all the
Bill,
Experience without understanding is experience of illusion experienced AS
illusion. Experience WITH understanding is the experience of illusion
experienced as REALITY!
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 4:45 AM, Bill! wrote:
Merle,
This 'unable to grasp' is indeed the crux of the
Brain can be trained in compassion, study shows
May 22nd, 2013 in Psychology Psychiatry=20
Until now, little was scientifically known about the human potential to cul=
tivate compassion-the emotional state of caring for people who are sufferin=
g in a way that motivates altruistic
Siska,
Be careful. I had a Japanese girlfriend for many years!
:-)
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 7:07 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote:
There have been occasions where Japanese mistook me as another Japanese. So,
I'm pretty sure I'm not blonde ;-)
Siska
From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net
Bill,
Buzz off, I saw Siska first and anyway you're married!
:-)
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 7:24 AM, Bill! wrote:
Siska,
Do you look something like this?
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@... wrote:
There have been occasions where Japanese mistook me as
Merle,
Speak for yourself. If that were true no one would be enlightened...
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 8:53 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
edgar..we are all emotionally needing..you included..merle
Mike,
That was right speech.
A little lesson in Buddhism for you.
Right speech
Merle,
Poor Merle, love is only love if it's on HER terms...
That's what is NOT Zen!
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 9:00 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
yes edgar..it would. you and your absolute need for the dolly bird
can't you get on with your own peers?...
needy for
Hi Bill,
LoL!
But I dyed my hair black
Thanks for the laugh
Siska
-Original Message-
From: Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 11:24:37
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Zen] Re: Zuli
Hello Bill,
As long as we dedicate ourselves, which you already do, to this path,
soon or later, this life or next, we will liberate ourselves from
suffering. That's what is expected from Buddha.
:-)
JM
On 5/22/2013 6:25 PM, Bill! wrote:
JMJM,
Thanks for your reply.
When you joined
Hi Siska,br/br/Well, at least you can never be accused of apostasy! I don't
think I know anyone who was raised as a Buddhist from birth (Japan doesn't
count), most people I know became Buddhists by choice. br/br/I've never
practiced the Mahasi method formally (but I have practiced noting), but
Hello Merle,
Reincarnation means our spirit is beginningless and is undying. Each
generation we come to earth with a different body. If you are
interested about this subject, go read these books:
Edgar, br/br/You teaching me anything about Buddhism would be like Stalin
teaching Gandhi about compassion. Right Speech isn't always just about just
telling the truth (besides, do you have proof he was a pedophile or just
speculating?). Here, I'll let Buddha himself teach
Edgar,br/br/I just think you just have a bad case of yam leaf envy.
br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Edgar,br/br/Eh?br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Merle,br/br/In Edgar's case there's not much to imagine ;
)br/br/Mikebr/br/br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Edgar,br/br/Yeah, but you opened your mouth, so now you've got no
chance!br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Mike,
LOL! So you are now channeling Buddha for me?
Are you so naive that you don't know you can find at least one internet site
that supports anything?
Did you do a Whois lookup to confirm Buddha himself is the webmaster of that
site?
Geeez, and you lecture me on Right Thinking?!!!
Once
Mike,
Good come back, even though not true...
:-)
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 10:49 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Edgar,
I just think you just have a bad case of yam leaf envy.
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net;
To:
Mike,
LOL! Bend over and you'll find out how wrong you are!
:-)
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 10:52 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Merle,
In Edgar's case there's not much to imagine ; )
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com;
To:
Merle,
Dogs certainly without a doubt have MUCH better personalities than the typical
Western human female!
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 8:50 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
This has to be one of the best 'singles' ads ever printed. It is reported
to have been listed in the Bendigo
br/Edgar,br/br/It's a translation from the Pali Canon. If you don't
believe that the sutras are the actual teachings from Buddha, why do you even
bother mentioning Right Speech? Also, I challenge you to find just *one*
translation of Right Speech the way you characterise it. I can assure you
Edgar,br/br/No worries. I'm sure I've been challenged by bigger
haemorrhoids than what you've got!br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo!
Mail for iPad
Merle,
If you couldn't survive Jakarta and Thailand (I simply assume you meant
bangkok), then I guess it was a good decision you did not proceed to India. But
you missed Bodh Gaya, one of the most impressive places I ever been.
Why I came to zen was nothing special. I have had meditation
Hi Mike,
I take it then you've had a lot of practice?
:-)
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 11:55 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Edgar,
No worries. I'm sure I've been challenged by bigger haemorrhoids than what
you've got!
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: Edgar Owen
Merle,
I can pick up the one I need in an instant.
Free of it when I want to be; and then, free to wear the one best able to
function in the exact circumstances that arise.
It's quite a good benefit that our Zen or Zen Buddhist practice gives us, if we
practice it as we are taught, with a
Edgar,
See Master Sheng Yen's autobiography, FOOTPRINTS IN THE SNOW. He puts it best
about what he did, and what faculty he used in order to do it. The concepts
are simple, and the translation is clear when it comes to such unambiguous
points.
And see about how he teaches (or says how he
Edgar,
Wrong-headed. It's doesn't matter if it's true or not.
No one is enlightened.
There is only enlightened behavior. I think Chris told us this. It's a good
reminder.
And it's that behavior that Bodhisattvas practice for (toward). Speech --
expression -- is part of behavior, too,
Joe,
Reason and rational mind are used in everything. That's how people are able to
put on their pants in the morning by using their rational mind.
You are claiming Sheng Yen couldn't even put on his pants much less teach Zen.
But you are obviously wrong.
Anyone who is able to write an
Mike,
Poor fellow is obviously not getting his greens. I've seen his kind of
behavior from other vitamin-deficient folks before, especially in Sophomores in
college.
But, let's not talk behind Edgar's back. ;-)
--Joe
uerusuboyo@... wrote:
Edgar, I just think you just have a bad case of
Mike, Edgar, Chums,
If a fellow can't be anything else, let's at least let him be right.
--Joe
Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Mike,
Once again I am right and you are wrong.
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or
Joe,
Again a made up delusion in your head. I just finished eating raw broccoli.
But I'm not moronic enough to claim I could live on broccoli alone.
That, my friend is the difference between illusion and reality to which you are
blind
A hopeless case when adolescent come backs are more
Siska,
I just overheard you write that.
I think you're very lucky to have met Guo Jun Fashi! I mean, I am jealous. He
seems so much like my Shifu in some ways. But of course he is very young, and
is Sheng Yen's youngest Dharma heir (age 35?).
Can you please tell me where he teaches, now?
i was going to say wanker edgar..but i held back...however...it must be said
now..merle
Hi Mike,
I take it then you've had a lot of practice?
:-)
Edgar
On May 23, 2013, at 11:55 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Edgar,
No worries. I'm sure I've been challenged by bigger
Edgar,
If you don't know the difference between thinking, and Zen methods, then you
never met a Zen method!
Q.E.D.!
We knew this all along. You've given yourself away immediately and unceasingly
...the minute you first opened your mouth.
Try closing it and get Thee to a Monastery! ;-)
Edgar,
Finished, is right.
Just as I though. Raw.
See, in China, they know better to COOK food so that the nutrients can get out
of the cells.
You're starving. Get help.
Surely you can hire someone to come and cook for you a few days a week?
--Joe
Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
i was going to say wanker edgar..
but i held back...
however...it must be said now
does your rational mind disagree?...
merle
what is it too summer time hot?...
i could go further but i'll leave this to the imagination
merle
Merle,
But I'm not wearing
Edgar,
Please don't call me your friend. Say WHAT?
Talk about DELUSIONS!
--J. ;-)
Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote:
Joe,
Again a made up delusion in your head. I just finished eating raw broccoli.
But I'm not moronic enough to claim I could live on broccoli alone.
That, my friend
Edgar, Mike,
I've got to get out of here and do some shopping, but I think I'll listen to
Yes, We Have No Bananas, first, which you guys' conversation has put me in
mind of! Thanks! ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT6JkceQ9FU
(This is Spike Jones; Quiet recitation for the first 42
Hi Edgar,
Okay, I shall be careful :-)
siska
-Original Message-
From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 09:16:35
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill!
Siska,
Hi Mike,
Haha yes, no apostasy for me :)
If you have Thai friends, I think they should also be 'born Buddhist'.
I understand in vipassana communities, people distinguish between vipassana and
samatha. However, vipassana that I currently practise do not distinguish that
and it has been
Hi Joe,
I was about to call you Guo Xiang ShiXiong, but was not sure if I could call
you shixiong. I'd probably be a Yan (or after) generation :D
Sorry, I don't know where he is now. Last time he came was perhaps 2 years ago.
Hope someone in your Sangha can find out his whereabouts.
Thanks
Edgar,br/br/I take it then you've had a lot of practice.br/br/Did you
get the grammar correct in that sentence? Maybe you meant to write:br/br/I
take it. Then you've had a lot of
practice.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for
iPad
Joe,br/br/Poor guy is obviously spiritually anorexic. Needs to start
cultivating those yam seeds now!br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo!
Mail for iPad
Joe,br/br/Fine by me. I wear my Edgar's wrong badge with
relief.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Joe,br/br/Haha! Yes, I get it. Edgar's the organ...
br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Dear Siska,
Well, no titles, please, however informal! I am very touched by your
consideration of such a thing, however, and this is the first time this has
happened -- or almost happened -- to me! So, my face is a little red. And
this is in addition to the usual Arizona desert tan that I
Mike,
Now you're showing that you're the real thing.
But Edgar is also a particular kind of Bodhisattva, and my old teacher Sheng
Yen would still be right in saying -- as he did -- that we should prostrate to
such people (and, he may yet have his first awakening in a future life, so
there is
Hi Siska,br/br/Most of my born Buddhist friends are Japanese, but
Buddhism is mostly nothing more than a nominal belief in Japan (although its
previous standing can still be seen in the various arts there today).
br/br/Yes, I've heard of samatha and vipassana being taught as one
meditation. I
Joe,br/br/You're too kind. Unfortunately I'm still taking too many day-trip
excursions into the Kleshas to be considered the real thing (Don't ask me
about my reaction to that British soldier who was decapitated by a Muslim on a
London street yesterday!)...br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo!
Mike,
I was reading over your shoulder, sorry.
There is no drop attachments instruction in Zen teaching. Never, ever, ever,
ever. Never!
(Remember, Zen is not The Teaching School).
The instruction is, instead: Keep to your method of meditation.
Or, more generally, Keep to your method of
Mike,
Not a Muslim. A criminal.
--Joe (sometime, or insipient, Sufi)
uerusuboyo@... wrote:
Joe, You're too kind. Unfortunately I'm still taking too many day-trip
excursions into the Kleshas to be considered the real thing (Don't ask me
about my reaction to that British soldier who was
Joe,br/br/Fair enough. 'When sitting, just sit. But above all else, don't
wobble' is something I've come across a lot more than 'drop attachments'. BUT I
have come across 'drop attachments' in Zen many, many times. Your point is well
taken tho. br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Joe,br/br/But when it comes to criminals committing criminal acts, why is
it that when a religion is cited by the perpetrator it's nearly always Islam?
I'm not attacking Muslims (they're usually the victims - especially women) -
just the religious idea of Islam.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from
Mike,
Can't speak about elsewhere, but in USA, it's so-called Christians who commit
most of the crimes, whether violent, white-collar, corporate, government, or
drug-trafficking related.
Terrorists have higher profile press coverage, though, disproportionate to the
number of crimes they
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