RE: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
I like the name Lazarus (I'm Greek btw), it means Resurection and it has the potential indeed to become so (for both Pascal and Delphi/Object Pascal). BTW, at conference hosted by eurodevcon.com, well known speakers in the Borland tools world will talk about the future of Delphi, C++ and JBuilder according to their promotion e-mail I recently got George Birbilis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Microsoft MVP J# for 2004-2006 Borland Spirit of Delphi * QuickTime, QTVR, ActiveX, VCL, .NET http://www.kagi.com/birbilis * Robotics http://www.mech.upatras.gr/~Robotics http://www.mech.upatras.gr/~robgroup -Original Message- From: Ido Kanner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:08 PM To: lazarus@miraclec.com; Michael Van Canneyt Cc: lazarus@miraclec.com Subject: Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise ! Quoting Michael Van Canneyt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, 14 May 2006, Ales Katona wrote: Lazarus might not be the best of names but neither is Delphi and especialy not Gambas (which sounds extremely moronic). Delphi is a stupid name too, it's just marketing which got it to the position it has. Amen to that :-) If Lazarus puts pascal as a language on the map again, it's name is VERY well chosen indeed, as Lazarus rose again from the grave !! LOL if we're going the religious tour anyway, let's go all the way ;-) In that case lets choose the name The Holy Grail :P that way it will make anything else not that holy... Delphi is a location at greece, where the Oracle women saw things... so you can see that greek is very pupolar in computer names :) I'm very pround at Pascal, but we never actually marked this language even Borland never did so (I never seen borland's add in my country ... and I used to work at the same location (few streets actually) from where the company that market them is sitting... To market smart people use Pascal will never work! instead, we should build tools that people needs and can't do without, and they will need Pascal for that. In my country, there where two such tools in the past (two word proccessors), when one of them existed on *every* computer that needed word processor. The problem was, that Microsoft stolen that market, and it caused the company to close itself. I tried few years ago to talk with them in order to make the word processor open source, and even to pay some monay to them, but they never responded. There was/is another word processor that was written in pure TP, and now there is an attempt to make rewrite it to Windows... I tried to contact (after few contacts by them) them forther, but no luck :( So if you build something that people actually will need and use, then it will be much better then just try to sell the name Pascal or Lazarus IMHO. _ avast! Antivirus http://www.avast.com : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0628-2, 11/07/2006 Tested on: 12/7/2006 1:56:09 ?? avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Amazing POV :-) I'm a complete atheist and still share much of you POV because Brazil is largely (and my family is) Catholic (so I have some idea of what these people IMHO-stupid people think. Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) And I almost ROFL when people say OMG Lazarus isn't Lazarus anymore :-/ Of course project, site and many other things can keep the name for any amount of time. But whatever, I'm not voting for a name change, I'm just saying that arguments (for not chaging) have been quite funnny... -Flávio On 5/19/06, m2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Florian Klaempfl wrote: Lv wrote: So if you guys want to change the name, where does it leave users like me presenting papers at conferences and citing Lazarus in technical papers as my software of choice? Nice to hear that not all users believe into the imo stupid idea to change the name. I don't think either that the board of directors of lazarus (Michael H., Matthias, Marc, Vincents, Micha et al.) consider a name change :) Just for the record, I also think a name change is uncalled for. A name change would have serious consequences - and we could start promoting everything from zero since the new name will be even less known then Lazarus. The word Lazarus is neither offensive or more ambiguous than other well known projects and companies. One more comment: Cheetah is the simbol of FPC, not lazarus. A cheetah on a column is Lazarus. Now you don't see anyone calling FPC cheetah, nor calling Linux Pinguin. I agree with Andreas (and thank the board of directors and their fine insight in dismissing this idea as being a total waste of time and effort) Which fine insight? Calling it a stupid idea is a fine insight? ;-) The drawbacks from a name change are phenomenal!!! Even without the !!!, it would be exaggerated. 1) Loss of current user base who don't keep up on the mailing list and all of sudden can't find their product under the name they know (and hopefully love) What is your estimate of the average IQ of a current user? :-) 2) Loss of new user base. I have actively promoted Lazarus, whenever asked, as a great tool/environment with my contacts. Don't know how many have looked at it yet, but I'm going to be very embarrassed if they do finally take my advice and check it out, and it's called something different than what I was advertising. That's the contrary, there will be more new users more quickly (assuming the new name is good). Moreover, why all that panic around a simple change of name. That's a current practice. Many software editors make use of temporary names for the beta versions of their softwares. 3) I suspect would require a lot of effort in renaming all sorts of directories/web sites/links, blah blah blah on a global basis Yes, and this is the only valuable reason. A change of name could lead to too much work in rewriting for the Lazarus team. This is a problem because the possibility of a renaming has not been taken in account when starting the project. 4) Same as #3 above on each existing users's personal computer(s) Renaming once for all a few directories is not a problem. All this for some cosmetics? Cosmetic!? Some people are paid fortunes just to search for (and to find) the name of a new product. Are you saying that companies who pay them are wasting their money? Much better that we quit talking about this and get back to making a really great product that will really sell itself based on it's stability and functionality, not on whether it is called S__T or Lazarus. Just my two cents. Let's get back to work making Lazarus GREAT! Yes, and a change of name would be good in order to do that. Btw, why do you present things as if we have to choose between either a good name or a good quality. Asking for both of them, that's not possible? I agree that if a software is useful and of good quality, good name or bad name, it will be used. A bad name cannot kill a good software. But a good name can help it. And Lazarus is indeed very bad. What does this name suggest? Bringing back a death to the life. The first thing it leads to think of is the death. This is totally negative. Lazarus might be an appropriate name for a game where you have to destroy lots of death-alive ones in catacombs but there we are talking about a Pascal programming tool. Note that I don't say that naming the software Lazarus was a stupid idea, no, I try to explain why I think it was a bad idea. Stupid idea is not an explanation, it is at most a peremptory judgement. Personally, and very frankly, I don't care whether the Lazarus team decides to
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Flávio Etrusco wrote: Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) Because believing in one and only one CREATOR is intelligent + philosophical + logical. see http://www.islam-guide.com for more information. On 5/19/06, m2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't care whether the Lazarus team decides to change the name or not. Now, I know and use Lazarus. For me its name has no more importance, I know what is behind it. But this is not the case for those who don't know it yet. Yes, a real developer probably wouldn't care what name it has, but a real developer probably has real clients. Those clients probably have no clue, so cosmetics is probably critical to be able to convince them, if you know what I mean :) So the situation is probably like this: Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr Pascal. Client Say what??? Devlpr Uh, I meant to say LAZARUS. Client What With a smart/cosmetic name change the same goes probably like this: Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr OpenRAD. It allows me to pick a language specific to your needs. Client Wow! Thanks! -- Al _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
With a smart/cosmetic name change the same goes probably like this: 9 years ago, FPC changed it's name after being 1 1/2 known to the internet and it was a lot of work and caused a lot of confusion. Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr OpenRAD. It allows me to pick a language specific to your needs. Well, that's a lie :) Lazarus supports only Object Pascal. If you're lying anyways, you can also tell the customer you're using an OpenRAD but it's in fact FPC and lazarus if you care about the name. Client Wow! Feel free to create OpenRAD based on FPC, gcc and lazarus ;) _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Florian Klaempfl wrote: With a smart/cosmetic name change the same goes probably like this: 9 years ago, FPC changed it's name after being 1 1/2 known to the internet and it was a lot of work and caused a lot of confusion. FPC is straight forward, like gcc. No need to change it. Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr OpenRAD. It allows me to pick a language specific to your needs. Well, that's a lie :) Lazarus supports only Object Pascal. If you're lying anyways, you can also tell the customer you're using an OpenRAD but it's in fact FPC and lazarus if you care about the name. That's Lazarus, what about OpenRAD? Client Wow! Feel free to create OpenRAD based on FPC, gcc and lazarus ;) Lazarus isn't a language, it's a RAD. And a good one too! But it would be sad to see this effort being expended towards one language only. Lazarus is too good, not to be leveraged. Think about it! Thanks! -- Al _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Al Boldi wrote: Flávio Etrusco wrote: Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) Because believing in one and only one CREATOR is intelligent + philosophical + logical. see http://www.islam-guide.com for more information. On 5/19/06, m2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't care whether the Lazarus team decides to change the name or not. Now, I know and use Lazarus. For me its name has no more importance, I know what is behind it. But this is not the case for those who don't know it yet. Yes, a real developer probably wouldn't care what name it has, but a real developer probably has real clients. Those clients probably have no clue, so cosmetics is probably critical to be able to convince them, if you know what I mean :) So the situation is probably like this: Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr Pascal. Client Say what??? Devlpr Uh, I meant to say LAZARUS. Client What With a smart/cosmetic name change the same goes probably like this: Client What language do you use to implement our system. Devlpr OpenRAD. It allows me to pick a language specific to your needs. Client Wow! Thanks! -- Al Ok, I have another idea. Client: What language do you use to implement our system? Devlp: An object-oriented mature language.. with properties and son on. Even C# was derived from it... Client: C#? Devlp: Yes, the guy who was behind Delphi went to Microsoft to create C#...Somehow it has elements of Delphi.. Client: What is it? Devlp: Object Pascal.. Client: Does anyone use Pascal? Devlp: A lot of people if you ask. Anyone who uses Delphi. And it is is Object Pascal.. But let us leave Delphi.. I use Lazarus IDE which is similar to Delphi. Client: SImilar? Devlp: Oh , yes and it is freeless cost and more freedom... Client: What is Lazarus Ide? Devlp:It contains Object Pascal and developer tools, GUI designer... So on So on.. Correct me if I made some mistakes ... Márton Papp _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Florian Klaempfl wrote: With a smart/cosmetic name change the same goes probably like this: 9 years ago, FPC changed it's name after being 1 1/2 known to the internet and it was a lot of work and caused a lot of confusion. FPC is straight forward, like gcc. No need to change it. I fear you missed the point. But it would be sad to see this effort being expended towards one language only. Lazarus is too good, not to be leveraged. Think about it! There is no need to think as long as no new developers pop up who start to work on this. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sat, 2006-05-20 at 14:37 +0300, Al Boldi wrote: Feel free to create OpenRAD based on FPC, gcc and lazarus ;) Lazarus isn't a language, it's a RAD. And a good one too! But it would be sad to see this effort being expended towards one language only. Lazarus is too good, not to be leveraged. Think about it! You have to turn it around: Lazarus could have become so good because it's written in Object Pascal. Pascal which offers a good basic, structured language which makes it easy to implement an advanced, complex system with a group of programmers in a relative short time. That programmers in other languages don't succeed in writing their own RAD, doesn't mean that we have to provide them with one, imho. But if someone else want to do that... be my guest. I'm not gonna do it. Joost. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Al Boldi a écrit : Flávio Etrusco wrote: Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) Because believing in one and only one CREATOR is intelligent + philosophical + logical. This is overall very restful. The idea of god allows to explain everything without it is required to understand anything. On 5/19/06, m2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't care whether the Lazarus team decides to change the name or not. Now, I know and use Lazarus. For me its name has no more importance, I know what is behind it. But this is not the case for those who don't know it yet. Yes, a real developer probably wouldn't care what name it has, but a real developer probably has real clients. Those clients probably have no clue, so cosmetics is probably critical to be able to convince them, if you know what I mean :) I am not sure to understand but, if there is no hidden meaning, yes, I agree. mm _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On 5/20/06, Joost van der Sluis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That programmers in other languages don't succeed in writing their own RAD, doesn't mean that we have to provide them with one, imho. But if someone else want to do that... be my guest. I'm not gonna do it. But then, people who like working with Lazarus might be forced to use other languages by those who pay us. This way we can make those people and also also us happy. Of course I don't think those who don't pass by this situation should be forced to help implementing it. The biggest problem is that I cannot see the advantage of adding c++ for Lazarus for example, without allowing it to access LCL. This would make it just another text editor, and there is plenty already. Maybe a C++_to_pascal converter could help in this situation. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
I'm a complete atheist and still share much of you POV because Brazil is largely (and my family is) Catholic (so I have some idea of what these people IMHO-stupid people think. Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists. -- Blaise Pascal Being atheist means you beleive that he does not exist. This, in my opinion, is just as bad as beleiving he does exist. Becuase you are saying you believe he doesn't exist. But you don't know. Therefore, most atheists are labelling themselves in the wrong category - IMO, all atheists should convert to agnostic.. which is much more intelligent of a decision, IMO. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sat, 2006-05-20 at 14:37 +0300, Al Boldi wrote: Feel free to create OpenRAD based on FPC, gcc and lazarus ;) Lazarus isn't a language, it's a RAD. And a good one too! But it would be sad to see this effort being expended towards one language only. Lazarus is too good, not to be leveraged. Think about it! You have to turn it around: Lazarus could have become so good because it's written in Object Pascal. Pascal which offers a good basic, structured language which makes it easy to implement an advanced, complex system with a group of programmers in a relative short time. Although readability is boosted I still find it takes years/months to make a complex project that does anything worthwhile in Pascal - or any language. And many C++ programmers are genius types - who could care less if the language is slightly more messy, because they have enough genius in them to understand it anyway. So it ends up being that a C++ program is just as easy to maintain if you are genius. I'm not a genius and don't want to exercise a brain part that I don't have to - so I use a more readable language. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
L505 a écrit : I'm a complete atheist and still share much of you POV because Brazil is largely (and my family is) Catholic (so I have some idea of what these people IMHO-stupid people think. Unfortunately, I don't know why, intelligent + phylosophical + logicist atheist...) Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists. -- Blaise Pascal The Pascal bet? There are lots of critics. 1) Believing in a god just to gain all? What an admirable faith! 2) You lose nothing! Of course not. If I choose to believe in god to gain all (but all what?), I have to follow the religion precepts. In particular, I lose all the religion forbids in my current life. 3) Pascal implicitly claims there are only two possibilities : 'No god, no eternal life' or 'A god and an eternal life'. What about, 'A god and no eternal life'? Yes, I agree, that's much less pleasant. Being atheist means you beleive that he does not exist. Certainly not. Not seeing something where there is nothing and where it is not necessary that there is something is not a belief, it is a knowledge. I don't not to believe that there is a Rammstein CD in orbit around Pluto, I do know there is none (but don't ask me to prove it, I cannot). This, in my opinion, is just as bad as beleiving he does exist. Becuase you are saying you believe he doesn't exist. But you don't know. Therefore, most atheists are labelling themselves in the wrong category - IMO, all atheists should convert to agnostic.. which is much more intelligent of a decision, IMO. It is not a decision, it is a name :-) BTW, don't be offended if ever I do no more answer that kind of post. I _believe_ that, there, we are vastly OT. mm _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
m2 wrote: Certainly not. Not seeing something where there is nothing and where it is not necessary that there is something is not a belief, it is a knowledge. I don't not to believe that there is a Rammstein CD in orbit around Pluto, I do know there is none (but don't ask me to prove it, I cannot). To prove the absence of something is always harder then the existance of something. It's the basic requirement of every conspiracy theory. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On 5/20/06, Joost van der Sluis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That programmers in other languages don't succeed in writing their own RAD, doesn't mean that we have to provide them with one, imho. But if someone else want to do that... be my guest. I'm not gonna do it. But then, people who like working with Lazarus might be forced to use other languages by those who pay us. This way we can make those people and also also us happy. Of course I don't think those who don't pass by this situation should be forced to help implementing it. The biggest problem is that I cannot see the advantage of adding c++ for Lazarus for example, without allowing it to access LCL. This would make it just another text editor, and there is plenty already. Maybe a C++_to_pascal converter could help in this situation. The problem with mixing language is that you spend tons of time making workarounds for the difference between the languages. One or two similar languages like C and Pascal is not so bad but when you try and integrate a dynamically typed language and a strong typed language, and a few static and a few weak languages your IDE becomes one giant workaround instead of a solid dedicated product. For example, if the IDE was to handle PHP - would variables be declared in a strong typing fashion so that the IDE could parse the file and find the var declaration? No. There is no var declaration in PHP. So what good is the find declaration code tools item in the menu. So you'd have to remove that feature out of the IDE just for PHP - hence taking time out to make the IDE a workaround, instead of taking the time to do other things. And that bloats it up, with lots of workaround code. Unless you use a plug-in system which may be very very complicated and very well thought out - and even then, you still have to explain to the users how to download which plug-in for which language - instead of just shipping them one easy to install IDE dedicated to Pascal. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Being atheist means you beleive that he does not exist. Certainly not. Not seeing something where there is nothing and where it is not necessary that there is something is not a belief, it is a knowledge. I don't not to believe that there is a Rammstein CD in orbit around Pluto, I do know there is none (but don't ask me to prove it, I cannot). Does a dog have knowledge about colors? Can a dog imagine red, orange, blue, green, purple, violet, etc? A dog can only see certain shades - gray, some blue. So if you asked a dog whether he believed red/orange/yellow/purple existed, the dog would tell you that you are full of shit. Well, an agnostic dog, on the other hand would say I don't know - I'm not sure - maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. Therefore you are agnostic, not atheist. Agnostic is not knowing, and let me tell you 100 percent of the world does not know anything about how or where the world was created, and how or where the thing that created that world was created, or whether it was a thing or not - or some figment of some thing's imagination. 100 percent of the world does not know anything - we are all agnostic. None of us are atheists, and none of us are religious. We all do not know. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many different religions out there - if we KNEW what existed we would only have one religion. If KNEW that nothing existed, we would all be atheists. This is no the case. We know NOTHING, we are all agnostic. YOU don't know there are more colors out there than the ones we can see. If dogs cannot see certain colors, we ourselves may not be able to see certain colors. You do not know. We may or may not be the only being out there that can see as many colors as we can. But you do not know. Believing that we are the only being out there that can see all colors is like being atheist - you think you know something, but you are just as bad as those who believe in aliens or those who believe in god. You are just as naive. The reality is, you do not know, and they do not know - you are ALL agnostic. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sat, 20 May 2006 12:31:02 -0600 L505 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Being atheist means you beleive that he does not exist. Certainly not. Not seeing something where there is nothing and where it is not necessary that there is something is not a belief, it is a knowledge. I don't not to believe that there is a Rammstein CD in orbit around Pluto, I do know there is none (but don't ask me to prove it, I cannot). Does a dog have knowledge about colors? Can a dog imagine red, orange, blue, green, purple, violet, etc? A dog can only see certain shades - gray, some blue. So if you asked a dog whether he believed red/orange/yellow/purple existed, the dog would tell you that you are full of shit. Well, an agnostic dog, on the other hand would say I don't know - I'm not sure - maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. Therefore you are agnostic, not atheist. Agnostic is not knowing, and let me tell you 100 percent of the world does not know anything about how or where the world was created, and how or where the thing that created that world was created, or whether it was a thing or not - or some figment of some thing's imagination. 100 percent of the world does not know anything - we are all agnostic. None of us are atheists, and none of us are religious. We all do not know. Otherwise, there wouldn't be so many different religions out there - if we KNEW what existed we would only have one religion. If KNEW that nothing existed, we would all be atheists. This is no the case. We know NOTHING, we are all agnostic. YOU don't know there are more colors out there than the ones we can see. If dogs cannot see certain colors, we ourselves may not be able to see certain colors. You do not know. We may or may not be the only being out there that can see as many colors as we can. But you do not know. Believing that we are the only being out there that can see all colors is like being atheist - you think you know something, but you are just as bad as those who believe in aliens or those who believe in god. You are just as naive. The reality is, you do not know, and they do not know - you are ALL agnostic. Thanks for enlightening us. But this whole discussion has really nothing to do with lazarus/fpc/programming in any sense. So everybody wanting to talk about religion please stop spamming this mailing list and talk somewhere else. Thank you for your understanding. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On 5/20/06, Lord Satan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So everybody wanting to talk about religion please stop spamming this mailing list and talk somewhere else. the irony of this request coming from lord satan himself is not to be missed ... ;) Tony -- X-SA user ? 0.5.1 is out ! XData 0.1 for X-SA is out ! http://x-plane.dsrts.com _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Hello, Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists. -- Blaise Pascal There is another interresting point in this discussion. Suppose you play the game, you say without hesitation that god exists! And then time passes, and, eventually, you die. Upon your arrival for the final judgement you find yourself standing in front of Ra, the egiptian god. And he is pretty pissed that you were worshiping a false god. =) Wouldn´t that be funny?? If god exists, why doesn´t the other gods exist? What makes this god better or more probable? If you ask me, the most unprobably thing in the universe is life. How come out of Carbon, Hidrogen, Nitrogen and Oxigen, the essence of life be formed? Those are just 4 elements, unliving things by definition. Life comes from things not alive? Or is there soul? I beliave that we will have one of the most important answers we may have when we have a computer powerful enougth to simulate the brain. If it succeds and artifical life can be created, then most likely the soul does not exist. And we are just aglomerates of minerals. If all effors fail it would be like discovering that magic exist =) We are magic. thanks, -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Florian Klaempfl a écrit : m2 wrote: Certainly not. Not seeing something where there is nothing and where it is not necessary that there is something is not a belief, it is a knowledge. I don't not to believe that there is a Rammstein CD in orbit around Pluto, I do know there is none (but don't ask me to prove it, I cannot). To prove the absence of something is always harder then the existance of something. It's the basic requirement of every conspiracy theory. Agreed. BTW, since you are the one who is working on the Win64 FPC version, maybe you can answer some questions. The goal is to write a 64-bit version of the NX lib. Do you think this is already feasible (with the current FPC snapshot) or have I to wait a little more? I didn't buy WinXP-64 yet (I am never in a hurry to give money to Macro$hit), I am waiting for FPC-64. Is it already usable? And if not, when do you expect it is (approximately)? Thanks. mm _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Thanks for enlightening us. But this whole discussion has really nothing to do with lazarus/fpc/programming in any sense. I brought in a quote from Blaise Pascal for the basis of my posts. And you should familiarize yourself with Blaise Pascal as some of his quotes are very related to programming, if you look at them from a certain angle. Blaise Pascal has everything to do with the Pascal programming language since the language was named after him, didn't you know. And Wirth himself must have at least agreed with some of Blaise's points, otherwise he wouldn't have picked him for the language name. I wouldn't have brought the quote in, if it was from someone else other than Mr. Pascal. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Florian Klaempfl wrote: Lv wrote: So if you guys want to change the name, where does it leave users like me presenting papers at conferences and citing Lazarus in technical papers as my software of choice? Nice to hear that not all users believe into the imo stupid idea to change the name. I don't think either that the board of directors of lazarus (Michael H., Matthias, Marc, Vincents, Micha et al.) consider a name change :) Just for the record, I also think a name change is uncalled for. A name change would have serious consequences - and we could start promoting everything from zero since the new name will be even less known then Lazarus. The word Lazarus is neither offensive or more ambiguous than other well known projects and companies. One more comment: Cheetah is the simbol of FPC, not lazarus. A cheetah on a column is Lazarus. Now you don't see anyone calling FPC cheetah, nor calling Linux Pinguin. I agree with Andreas (and thank the board of directors and their fine insight in dismissing this idea as being a total waste of time and effort) Which fine insight? Calling it a stupid idea is a fine insight? ;-) The drawbacks from a name change are phenomenal!!! Even without the !!!, it would be exaggerated. 1) Loss of current user base who don't keep up on the mailing list and all of sudden can't find their product under the name they know (and hopefully love) What is your estimate of the average IQ of a current user? :-) 2) Loss of new user base. I have actively promoted Lazarus, whenever asked, as a great tool/environment with my contacts. Don't know how many have looked at it yet, but I'm going to be very embarrassed if they do finally take my advice and check it out, and it's called something different than what I was advertising. That's the contrary, there will be more new users more quickly (assuming the new name is good). Moreover, why all that panic around a simple change of name. That's a current practice. Many software editors make use of temporary names for the beta versions of their softwares. 3) I suspect would require a lot of effort in renaming all sorts of directories/web sites/links, blah blah blah on a global basis Yes, and this is the only valuable reason. A change of name could lead to too much work in rewriting for the Lazarus team. This is a problem because the possibility of a renaming has not been taken in account when starting the project. 4) Same as #3 above on each existing users's personal computer(s) Renaming once for all a few directories is not a problem. All this for some cosmetics? Cosmetic!? Some people are paid fortunes just to search for (and to find) the name of a new product. Are you saying that companies who pay them are wasting their money? Much better that we quit talking about this and get back to making a really great product that will really sell itself based on it's stability and functionality, not on whether it is called S__T or Lazarus. Just my two cents. Let's get back to work making Lazarus GREAT! Yes, and a change of name would be good in order to do that. Btw, why do you present things as if we have to choose between either a good name or a good quality. Asking for both of them, that's not possible? I agree that if a software is useful and of good quality, good name or bad name, it will be used. A bad name cannot kill a good software. But a good name can help it. And Lazarus is indeed very bad. What does this name suggest? Bringing back a death to the life. The first thing it leads to think of is the death. This is totally negative. Lazarus might be an appropriate name for a game where you have to destroy lots of death-alive ones in catacombs but there we are talking about a Pascal programming tool. Note that I don't say that naming the software Lazarus was a stupid idea, no, I try to explain why I think it was a bad idea. Stupid idea is not an explanation, it is at most a peremptory judgement. Personally, and very frankly, I don't care whether the Lazarus team decides to change the name or not. Now, I know and use Lazarus. For me its name has no more importance, I know what is behind it. But this is not the case for those who don't know it yet. mm _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On st , 2006-05-17 at 08:48 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I one of the ones who think that a new name is MUST, Lazarus seems fine for a project name, but I share the idea that taking the project to corporate world, will require a new name. And what makes you think Lazarus aims for corporate world? Ales _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Florian Klaempfl wrote:Lv wrote: So if you guys want to change the name, where does it leave users likeme presenting papers at conferences and citing Lazarus in technicalpapers as my software of choice? Nice to hear that not all users believe into the imo stupid idea to change thename. I don't think either that the "board of directors" of lazarus (Michael H., Matthias, Marc, Vincents, Micha et al.) consider a name change :) Just for the record, I also think a name change is uncalled for. A name change would have serious consequences - and we could start promoting everything from zero since the new name will be even less known then Lazarus. The word Lazarus is neither offensive or more ambiguous than other well known projects and companies.One more comment: Cheetah is the simbol of FPC, not lazarus. A cheetah on a column is Lazarus. Now you don't see anyone calling FPC cheetah, nor calling Linux Pinguin. I agree with Andreas (and thank the "board of directors" and their fine insight in dismissing this idea as being a total waste of time and effort) The drawbacks from a name change are phenomenal!!! 1) Loss of current user base who don't keep up on the mailing list and all of sudden can't find their product under the name they know (and hopefully love) 2) Loss of new user base. I have actively promoted Lazarus, whenever asked, as a great tool/environment with my contacts. Don't know how many have looked at it yet, but I'm going to be very embarrassed if they do finally take my advice and check it out, and it's called something different than what I was advertising. 3) I suspect would require a lot of effort in renaming all sorts of directories/web sites/links, blah blah blah on a global basis 4) Same as #3 above on each existing users's personal computer(s) All this for some "cosmetics"? Much better that we quit talking about this and get back to making a really great product that will really "sell" itself based on it's stability and functionality, not on whether it is called S__T or Lazarus. Just my two cents. Let's get back to work making Lazarus GREAT! Dave
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
So if you guys want to change the name, where does it leave users like me presenting papers at conferences and citing Lazarus in technical papers as my software of choice? I am asked a lot what software I use and I explicitly promote Lazarus/FPC. This thread make me believe that I will segfault myself to promote Lazarus as the rug will be pulled under serious users feet. Afte this I would rather tell the world I am using Delphi but behind the scenes use Lazarus as I know Delphi I cannot cite Lazarus in papers and then find..oh..it is now called Phoenix. I will in future not cite Lazarus as the name will probably change, but rather give personal credit to the authors who assisted me. Lazarus was a nice way to get around the Pascal-debunkers and it worked well, but I cannot cite something that is so mindlessly considered for rebranding. Usually a name change is associated with public pressure, which would be ok as the world requires it and users promoting it dont have to segfault. Thierry Andriamirado wrote: Le samedi 13 mai 2006 à 18:55 -0300, Flávio Etrusco a écrit : but as somebody already said some days ago in another thread, I think mixing religion with anything is a bad idea... I wouldn't mind I remember, after megido (?), and the beginning of Lazarus, I thought this name was a bad idea. why not Phenix, Phoenix... ? In fact I don't really care... few years after, I think that it's more important for the moment to communicate about what Lazarus can do and where it goes. If we decide to change the name, it's better to do it for example at the same time as 1.0, or any other important event. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Lv wrote: So if you guys want to change the name, where does it leave users like me presenting papers at conferences and citing Lazarus in technical papers as my software of choice? Nice to hear that not all users believe into the imo stupid idea to change the name. I don't think either that the board of directors of lazarus (Michael H., Matthias, Marc, Vincents, Micha et al.) consider a name change :) I am asked a lot what software I use and I explicitly promote Lazarus/FPC. This thread make me believe that I will segfault myself to promote Lazarus as the rug will be pulled under serious users feet. Afte this I would rather tell the world I am using Delphi but behind the scenes use Lazarus as I know Delphi I cannot cite Lazarus in papers and then find..oh..it is now called Phoenix. I will in future not cite Lazarus as the name will probably change, but rather give personal credit to the authors who assisted me. Lazarus was a nice way to get around the Pascal-debunkers and it worked well, but I cannot cite something that is so mindlessly considered for rebranding. Usually a name change is associated with public pressure, which would be ok as the world requires it and users promoting it dont have to segfault. Thierry Andriamirado wrote: Le samedi 13 mai 2006 à 18:55 -0300, Flávio Etrusco a écrit : but as somebody already said some days ago in another thread, I think mixing religion with anything is a bad idea... I wouldn't mind I remember, after megido (?), and the beginning of Lazarus, I thought this name was a bad idea. why not Phenix, Phoenix... ? In fact I don't really care... few years after, I think that it's more important for the moment to communicate about what Lazarus can do and where it goes. If we decide to change the name, it's better to do it for example at the same time as 1.0, or any other important event. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Wed, 17 May 2006, Lv wrote: So if you guys want to change the name, where does it leave users like me presenting papers at conferences and citing Lazarus in technical papers as my software of choice? I am asked a lot what software I use and I explicitly promote Lazarus/FPC. This thread make me believe that I will segfault myself to promote Lazarus as the rug will be pulled under serious users feet. Afte this I would rather tell the world I am using Delphi but behind the scenes use Lazarus as I know Delphi I cannot cite Lazarus in papers and then find..oh..it is now called Phoenix. I will in future not cite Lazarus as the name will probably change, but rather give personal credit to the authors who assisted me. Lazarus was a nice way to get around the Pascal-debunkers and it worked well, but I cannot cite something that is so mindlessly considered for rebranding. To assure you: As far as I know, none of the core team considers a name change. And if they don't, it won't happen. Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On 17/05/06, Florian Klaempfl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lv wrote: So if you guys want to change the name, where does it leave users like me presenting papers at conferences and citing Lazarus in technical papers as my software of choice? Nice to hear that not all users believe into the imo stupid idea to change the name. I don't think either that the board of directors of lazarus (Michael H., Matthias, Marc, Vincents, Micha et al.) consider a name change :) I agree. It is a stupid idea to change the name. There is nothing wrong with the name Lazarus. All it needs is a couple more bug fixes and a lot of PR work from it's users! Instead of waisting your energy and time following and writing to this thread, spend your time constructively with something like fixing bugs! Graeme. -- There's no place like 127.0.0.1 _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
I agree. It is a stupid idea to change the name. There is nothing wrong with the name Lazarus. All it needs is a couple more bug fixes and a lot of PR work from it's users! 1000% agree! Instead of waisting your energy and time following and writing to this thread, spend your time constructively with something like fixing bugs! 1% agree! Fixing and reporting bugs, building application, promoting FPC/Lazarus, writing documentations, etc. for FPC/Lazarus is a lot more valueable contributions to this project instead of changing the name. I've been promoting FPC/Lazarus for more than a year to developers in my country, especially to Delphi developers. If the name will change, I'll no longer promoting it anymore. Don't we take a lesson from BORLAND - INPRISE - BORLAND (again) history? Changing name will requires unnecessary PR works! And if it REALLY will be changed, who'll guarantee it will not be changed once more? Please... stop this stupid, wasting energy and time discussion! For anybody who still insists to this name changing idea, I believe you're still allowed to build a new project based on Lazarus source codes and then name the project whatever you want. :p Just my 2 cents. :p -Bee- has Bee.ography at http://beeography.wordpress.com _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Florian Klaempfl wrote: Lv wrote: So if you guys want to change the name, where does it leave users like me presenting papers at conferences and citing Lazarus in technical papers as my software of choice? Nice to hear that not all users believe into the imo stupid idea to change the name. I don't think either that the board of directors of lazarus (Michael H., Matthias, Marc, Vincents, Micha et al.) consider a name change :) Just for the record, I also think a name change is uncalled for. A name change would have serious consequences - and we could start promoting everything from zero since the new name will be even less known then Lazarus. The word Lazarus is neither offensive or more ambiguous than other well known projects and companies. One more comment: Cheetah is the simbol of FPC, not lazarus. A cheetah on a column is Lazarus. Now you don't see anyone calling FPC cheetah, nor calling Linux Pinguin. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Nice to hear that not all users believe into the imo stupid idea to change the name. I don't think either that the board of directors of lazarus Hi. I have start some message threads that finish in flame wars, like foundation one, which wasn't my intention. But I didn't start the message thread about changing name, I'll prefer Lazarus to get more mature, before changing name. I one of the ones who think that a new name is MUST, Lazarus seems fine for a project name, but I share the idea that taking the project to corporate world, will require a new name. And for the board of directors, what can I say, I just respect their work ;-) Just my 2 cents. - Marco Aurelio Ramirez Carrillo lazarus dot mramirez at star-dev dot com [dot mx] _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
For anybody who still insists to this name changing idea, I believe you're still allowed to build a new project based on Lazarus source codes and I DIDN'T START THE TOPIC, but even that I think it's a good idea to change the name (in time), I would like to wait to see Lazarus more mature, and of course, ( MYSELF ) make some significant contributions or bug fixes before bothering other users ;-) Just my 2 cents. - Marco Aurelio Ramirez Carrillo lazarus dot mramirez at star-dev dot com [dot mx] _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Perhaps we better rename Pascal... after all... what does Pascal mean? It Means Passover. It's a Jewish (Christian - Easter) holiday.:-) lazarus is as good a name as most. And I thought it was named for lazarus long. who is known to have written in his notebooks: Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it. Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. Never underestimate the power of human stupidity. Yield to temptation; it may not pass your way again and misunderstanding somethings he says: Anything free is worth what you pay for it. ---dale _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Dale Welch a écrit : Perhaps we better rename Pascal... after all... what does Pascal mean? It Means Passover. It's a Jewish (Christian - Easter) holiday.:-) Pascal comes from the name of the French mathematician, physician and philosopher, Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) who built a famous mechanical calculator. mm _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Wednesday 17 May 2006 18:24, m2 wrote: Dale Welch a écrit : Perhaps we better rename Pascal... after all... what does Pascal mean? It Means Passover. It's a Jewish (Christian - Easter) holiday.:-) Pascal comes from the name of the French mathematician, physician and philosopher, Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) who built a famous mechanical calculator. mm Yes, I know this. Blaize Pascal is a very famous christian having written pensees which is also a theological treatise. but his name comes directly from paschal which comes from passover which is the jewish holiday celebrated at the time christians celebrate what is now popularly called easter. Jesus had gone to jerusalem for the Paschal feast when he was arrested and killed. i was just showing that even the language has a link even if most people don't realize it. And you might get someone who gets upset and claims it's offensive to them. But we have things named from many of the major ( minor) religions since what people call culture is often a part of some religion. Just live with it. :-) ---dale _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Mon, 15 May 2006 09:24:00 +0200 Marc Santhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Sonntag, den 14.05.2006, 23:15 +0200 schrieb Mattias Gaertner: The IDE is not only form designing. Many people would like to use one IDE for all of their source - pascal GUIs, php/html/js webpages, c++ tools/libs, perl/python/bash scripts ... We have already syntax highlighers for all of them. A plugin for code formatters and parsing tools could be useful. Although I have other priorities at the moment. Me too. I really like writing code with good syntax highlighting and code template support. But only for Pascal so far. This leads to another question: Can the behaviour of the editor get customized? I'd like to have the cursor move more text orientation wise in sense of not extending to the right further than the real line end. Editor Optins - Scroll past end of line For most things like shell scripts (don't hit me ;) I use JEdit. What I really love is having the Pos1 key jumping to the start of the indented text on the first hit. Could lazarus' editor be made that way? If so, how can I do? Editor Optins - Home key jumps to nearest start Mattias _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Am Dienstag, den 16.05.2006, 10:06 +0200 schrieb Mattias Gaertner: Can the behaviour of the editor get customized? I'd like to have the cursor move more text orientation wise in sense of not extending to the right further than the real line end. Editor Optins - Scroll past end of line I'm nuked, it's all there. :D What stopped me from finding it myself is a not really clear translation to german. It says now: Scrollen bis ans Ende der Zeile I suggest to rename it to Scrollen über das Zeilenende hinaus It's not perfekt, there may be even better translations, but this it at least understandable (by me ;) and logically correct (inverted). Thank you, Marc _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Am Dienstag, den 16.05.2006, 18:18 +0200 schrieb Mattias Gaertner: On Tue, 16 May 2006 12:16:09 +0200 Marc Santhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What stopped me from finding it myself is a not really clear translation to german. It says now: Scrollen bis ans Ende der Zeile I suggest to rename it to Scrollen über das Zeilenende hinaus It's not perfekt, there may be even better translations, but this it at least understandable (by me ;) and logically correct (inverted). Changed. Thank you. But on FreeBSD4 (don't know if it's related) this happens: gmake --assume-new=../lazarus.pp lazarus gmake[2]: Entering directory `/usr/home/marc/program/lazarus/lazarus/ide' /home/marc/fpc-2.0.2/bin/fpc -gl -Fu../lcl/units/i386-freebsd -Fu../lcl/units/i386-freebsd/gtk -Fu../components/codetools/units/i386-freebsd -Fu../components/synedit/units/i386-freebsd -Fu../components/custom -Fu../components/mpaslex -Fu../ideintf/units/i386-freebsd -Fu../designer -Fu../designer/jitform/units/i386-freebsd -Fu../debugger -Fu../converter -Fu../packager -Fu../packager/units/i386-freebsd -Fu. -Fiinclude -Fiinclude/freebsd -Fi../images -FE.. -FU../units/i386-freebsd -di386 lazarus.pp Free Pascal Compiler version 2.0.2 [2005/11/17] for i386 Copyright (c) 1993-2005 by Florian Klaempfl Target OS: FreeBSD/ELF for i386 Compiling lazarus.pp Linking ../lazarus /home/marc/fpc-2.0.2/lib/fpc/2.0.2/units/i386-freebsd/rtl/cwstring.o: In function `CWSTRING_LOWERWIDESTRING$WIDESTRING$$WIDESTRING': /home/marc/fpc-2.0.2/lib/fpc/2.0.2/units/i386-freebsd/rtl/cwstring.o(.text+0x460): undefined reference to `towlower' /home/marc/fpc-2.0.2/lib/fpc/2.0.2/units/i386-freebsd/rtl/cwstring.o: In function `CWSTRING_UPPERWIDESTRING$WIDESTRING$$WIDESTRING': /home/marc/fpc-2.0.2/lib/fpc/2.0.2/units/i386-freebsd/rtl/cwstring.o(.text+0x4e0): undefined reference to `towupper' /home/marc/fpc-2.0.2/lib/fpc/2.0.2/units/i386-freebsd/rtl/cwstring.o: In function `CWSTRING_COMPAREWIDESTRING$WIDESTRING$WIDESTRING$$LONGINT': /home/marc/fpc-2.0.2/lib/fpc/2.0.2/units/i386-freebsd/rtl/cwstring.o(.text+0x79c): undefined reference to `wcscoll' lazarus.pp(113,1) Error: Error while linking Error: /home/marc/fpc-2.0.2/bin/ppc386 returned an error exitcode (normal if you did not specify a source file to be compiled) gmake[2]: *** [lazarus] Fehler 1 gmake[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/home/marc/program/lazarus/lazarus/ide' gmake[1]: *** [ide] Fehler 2 gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/home/marc/program/lazarus/lazarus/ide' gmake: *** [ide] Fehler 2 Regards, Marc _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Am Sonntag, den 14.05.2006, 23:15 +0200 schrieb Mattias Gaertner: The IDE is not only form designing. Many people would like to use one IDE for all of their source - pascal GUIs, php/html/js webpages, c++ tools/libs, perl/python/bash scripts ... We have already syntax highlighers for all of them. A plugin for code formatters and parsing tools could be useful. Although I have other priorities at the moment. Me too. I really like writing code with good syntax highlighting and code template support. But only for Pascal so far. This leads to another question: Can the behaviour of the editor get customized? I'd like to have the cursor move more text orientation wise in sense of not extending to the right further than the real line end. For most things like shell scripts (don't hit me ;) I use JEdit. What I really love is having the Pos1 key jumping to the start of the indented text on the first hit. Could lazarus' editor be made that way? If so, how can I do? Regards, Marc _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Michael Van Canneyt schreef: On Mon, 15 May 2006, Marc Santhoff wrote: For most things like shell scripts (don't hit me ;) I use JEdit. What I really love is having the Pos1 key jumping to the start of the indented text on the first hit. Could lazarus' editor be made that way? If so, how can I do? If I remember correctly, this has been requested once, and the solution was: first hit - col 1, second hit: first indented pos ? And by all means, such things should be configurable. Each coder has his own preferences... Is this Editor Options - General - Jump to nearest start? Vincent. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Le samedi 13 mai 2006 à 18:55 -0300, Flávio Etrusco a écrit : but as somebody already said some days ago in another thread, I think mixing religion with anything is a bad idea... I wouldn't mind I remember, after megido (?), and the beginning of Lazarus, I thought this name was a bad idea. why not Phenix, Phoenix... ? In fact I don't really care... few years after, I think that it's more important for the moment to communicate about what Lazarus can do and where it goes. If we decide to change the name, it's better to do it for example at the same time as 1.0, or any other important event. -- Thierry Andriamirado http://thierry.andriamirado.free.fr _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Am Montag, den 15.05.2006, 10:01 +0200 schrieb Vincent Snijders: Michael Van Canneyt schreef: On Mon, 15 May 2006, Marc Santhoff wrote: For most things like shell scripts (don't hit me ;) I use JEdit. What I really love is having the Pos1 key jumping to the start of the indented text on the first hit. Could lazarus' editor be made that way? If so, how can I do? If I remember correctly, this has been requested once, and the solution was: first hit - col 1, second hit: first indented pos ? And by all means, such things should be configurable. Each coder has his own preferences... Is this Editor Options - General - Jump to nearest start? It is! Lazarus is too cool for me ... ;) And another one of my favourites is there, indenting mrked blocks with TAB. It must be christmas today. :) Many thanks, Marc _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Michael Van Canneyt wrote: On Sun, 14 May 2006, Ido Kanner wrote: Nicholas Wirth once said that a language requires good name (I don't recall the exact quote), without a good name the language will fail. In that case he did a poor PR job, obviously. Obviously the name C++ is why it's so commonly used. Wait, that doesn't make sense... What we have in Lazarus is essentially Visual Studio Pascal (not that I'm suggesting that name because it's mostly taken.) But, I honestly don't think a name change will affect things much one way or the other. Like was already pointed out Delphi had nothing to do with Pascal - probably because Borland was smart enough to realize that Pascal was already viewed as an obscure dead language and they wanted to separate themselves from that. Nobody in the early days called themselves Pascal programmers, they were all Delphi programmers. -Tony _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Enough about naming issues ;-) And enough about suggesting Lazarus as generic RAD. Why don't use Eclipse then? No sir, I pretty much like Pascal syntax, with ':=' for attribution and no braces blocks ;-) Back to the original subject, maybe (unfortunately) one can think that they were not very fond of an FPC article because text-mode tools isn't a hot topic these days. I don't remember seeing anything on LJ about GCC or Boost or any low-level library or framework (unless maybe web-related stuff). I hope one would be successful if he'd throw Lazarus in the mix... Cheers, Flávio _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
If you want to gain users and/or developers, the application name needs to be known around the world. For this reason the name is very important and to my own experience Lazarus is not a good name. Allthough I am only an amateur programmer (used to program with VBA, VB within Access mostly) I am trying to find my way out with Lazarus. When I told my colleagues (I am the one eyed among the blinds) that I was looking into Lazarus, I got reactions like that does not sound well. When I spoke with some Delphi programmers and told them that I was looking into Lazarus, they all thought that I was kidding and could not imagine that it would be something as a serious RAD tool, they never heart of Lazarus before. I think that changing the name into something that puts the application on the Map will help the application/project a lot. I think a good name that will bring the application into the picture might be e.g. Develope. Develope is not far from Dephi sound but different enough to distincwish from Delphi. I googled around a little and did not find any other project called Develope. When checking some urls on develope: - www.develope.com is owned by www.cypack.com, looks like a Korean hosting company (www.develope.com might be for sale). - www.develope.net is for sale at www.UrlCollection.com. - www.develope.org is owned by www.haering.ws a German design company? - www.develope.eu is still free. Note, when looking for Develop you will find more, e.g. a Printer and Copier brand name but did not find an other project with this name. Rob. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
I think a name change isn't necessary, but what FPC/Lazarus would need is a group of people doing the same as distributors do: combining FPC/Lazarus into one nice and easy to use package. This project/package could get a new name, probably something descriptive like FreeRAD, OpenRAD or GNU RAD. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sun, 14 May 2006, m2 wrote: Michael Van Canneyt a écrit : People taking offense at this name only make themselves ridiculous. I refuse to take that (or them) serious. ( Yes, and I will take the risk that I will burn eternally in hell for this ;-) ) As far as I am concerned, it is not a matter of offense. I am as atheist as you are (if not more :-) I am way beyond atheism already :-) The problem with Lazarus is that it is a very bad name. There is nothing in it that is linked to the software itself or that suggests something pleasant. Well, just to name a few: Delphi - reminds me of ancient greece. Duh ! Gambas - I hate shrimp! GNU - not really an inspiring animal ? Python - a snake. Not exactly a positive image ?? perl - Pathetically Eccclesiastic Rubbish Lister ?! Ruby - A girls name, and an obvious hint at perl ? Pathetic ! Eclipse - I don't see what is positive about the light going out for everyone ?! I'm sure that if you look up projects in freshmeat or whatever, you'll find a lot more names which are associated with strange things. Lazarus is just a name. The original project from which Lazarus was derived was called 'Megido' - some sacred mountain in Israel. I'm sure not many people on the list know this ? To keep the idea that is behind Lazarus, for instance, Phoenix would have been a better choice. But, as a matter of fact, any X-FPC or FPC-X would have been better. Not that these names are good, just it is very difficult to be worst than Lazarus. This obviously is a matter of taste. If we're going to change the name, why not go for Cheetah ? Honour the mascotte of FPC ? Oh no ! it's already a template engine for Python ! Tiger ? Damn, Apple used it. Puma ? Open source media player for Mac... Lynx ? Also in use.. Leopard ? opensource Egovernment project Lion ? Nope: (La)TeX uses a lion's image... and so on... To make it short: Personally, I really don't see the need... Michael.
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Quoting Michael Van Canneyt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, 14 May 2006, m2 wrote: Michael Van Canneyt a ֳ©crit : People taking offense at this name only make themselves ridiculous. I refuse to take that (or them) serious. ( Yes, and I will take the risk that I will burn eternally in hell for this ;-) ) As far as I am concerned, it is not a matter of offense. I am as atheist as you are (if not more :-) I am way beyond atheism already :-) The problem with Lazarus is that it is a very bad name. There is nothing in it that is linked to the software itself or that suggests something pleasant. Well, just to name a few: Delphi - reminds me of ancient greece. Duh ! Gambas - I hate shrimp! GNU - not really an inspiring animal ? Python - a snake. Not exactly a positive image ?? perl - Pathetically Eccclesiastic Rubbish Lister ?! Ruby - A girls name, and an obvious hint at perl ? Pathetic ! Ruby have very nice syntax, it's something between Perl and Pascal :) Eclipse - I don't see what is positive about the light going out for everyone ?! I'm sure that if you look up projects in freshmeat or whatever, you'll find a lot more names which are associated with strange things. Lazarus is just a name. The original project from which Lazarus was derived was called 'Megido' - some sacred mountain in Israel. Sacred for christianity just like the Lazarus person that returned from the dead (it's actually an Hebrew name for person - Eliezer, but the person was a figure in the new testemony). I belive that less religious words the better... I'm sure not many people on the list know this ? To keep the idea that is behind Lazarus, for instance, Phoenix would have been a better choice. But, as a matter of fact, any X-FPC or FPC-X would have been better. Not that these names are good, just it is very difficult to be worst than Lazarus. This obviously is a matter of taste. If we're going to change the name, why not go for Cheetah ? Honour the mascotte of FPC ? Oh no ! it's already a template engine for Python ! Tiger ? Damn, Apple used it. Puma ? Open source media player for Mac... Lynx ? Also in use.. Leopard ? opensource Egovernment project Lion ? Nope: (La)TeX uses a lion's image... and so on... To make it short: Personally, I really don't see the need... Nicholas Wirth once said that a language requires good name (I don't recall the exact quote), without a good name the language will fail. Personally, I belive that we need to kill the name Pascal because many people does not respect that language (I still do not understand why). OpenRAD etc sounds really nice idea... :) Michael. Ido _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Just a few thoughts (MHOs): * The success of Lazarus depends on the support for doing useful things in a reliable, nice and easy way - the name is not so important. * Lazarus is/will be on the radar screen of the Delphi users in the first place. These could want to use it because of the multiplatform support, because it is free (which Delphi might become too!) and because of the Unicode support (when, sometime in the future, it perhaps becomes available also for win32). * However named, the name will become known through the unique qualities of the system and not the other way around. I believe it is already quite known, so that possible positive impacts of the name change are questionable. * Abandoning the relation to and the mention of Pascal (because those not in the know regard it as a dead and never-of-any-use language) does not seem acceptable to me. You do not suppress the name of your religion, ideology, your partner, etc. because there are some that have some objections on its/his/her properties. * Persons not acquainted with Christianity might have a problem associating the name with anything in particular. Those acquainted might associate it with the image of a man coming out of the tomb - not my favorite image. Is the current name unacceptable to people following other religions? - I can not tell, but it would not be good, if so. * The name based on a mythologycal association would perhaps be more widely acceptable than one based on religious association. In this respect, the concept of the Firebird would perhaps be more suitable. That one is, however, already being used for a very good open source DBMS (as most of us know). About firebirds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_bird_(mythology) Any ideas? * Finally, what about an acronym: Novel Open Multiplatform Application Development It could even have a combined version: NOMAD-Lazarus Regards, Borut _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Lazarus might not be the best of names but neither is Delphi and especialy not Gambas (which sounds extremely moronic). Delphi is a stupid name too, it's just marketing which got it to the position it has. Ales _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sun, 14 May 2006, Ales Katona wrote: Lazarus might not be the best of names but neither is Delphi and especialy not Gambas (which sounds extremely moronic). Delphi is a stupid name too, it's just marketing which got it to the position it has. Amen to that :-) If Lazarus puts pascal as a language on the map again, it's name is VERY well chosen indeed, as Lazarus rose again from the grave !! LOL if we're going the religious tour anyway, let's go all the way ;-) Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sun, 14 May 2006, Ido Kanner wrote: Nicholas Wirth once said that a language requires good name (I don't recall the exact quote), without a good name the language will fail. In that case he did a poor PR job, obviously. Personally, I belive that we need to kill the name Pascal because many people does not respect that language (I still do not understand why). It _IS_ pascal, and we had better be proud of it ! If _WE_ are not proud of it, who will be ? Really, this is the world upside down !! Why would the smart kneel for the stupid ?? (Yes, being rethorical here... not accusing anyone of anything) Michael. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sunday 14 May 2006 08:57, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: On Sun, 14 May 2006, Ido Kanner wrote: Nicholas Wirth once said that a language requires good name (I don't recall the exact quote), without a good name the language will fail. In that case he did a poor PR job, obviously. Personally, I belive that we need to kill the name Pascal because many people does not respect that language (I still do not understand why). It _IS_ pascal, and we had better be proud of it ! If _WE_ are not proud of it, who will be ? Really, this is the world upside down !! Why would the smart kneel for the stupid ?? (Yes, being rethorical here... not accusing anyone of anything) Michael. I agree! There is nothing wrong with any of the names. I truly doubt anyone is offended by 'Pascal or 'Lazarus'. If it becomes one of the best development environments available then I bet (even if the name was offensive) programmers would use it. John _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Florian Klaempfl wrote: I think a name change isn't necessary, but what FPC/Lazarus would need is a group of people doing the same as distributors do: combining FPC/Lazarus into one nice and easy to use package. This project/package could get a new name, probably something descriptive like FreeRAD, OpenRAD or GNU RAD. I think having a seperate project/package would be confusing. What documentation would you then change to the package name? I like the idea of having 'RAD' as part of the name. It is representative of what Lazarus is. OpenRad is good. How about PRAD or P-RAD, or PRADE short for Pascal Rad Environment, or at the risk of getting silly PARADE. Still, although some people may not like PARADE, it is logically representative, it does not have any negative or religious connotations, and rolls of the tongue easily. George _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Quoting Michael Van Canneyt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, 14 May 2006, Ales Katona wrote: Lazarus might not be the best of names but neither is Delphi and especialy not Gambas (which sounds extremely moronic). Delphi is a stupid name too, it's just marketing which got it to the position it has. Amen to that :-) If Lazarus puts pascal as a language on the map again, it's name is VERY well chosen indeed, as Lazarus rose again from the grave !! LOL if we're going the religious tour anyway, let's go all the way ;-) In that case lets choose the name The Holy Grail :P that way it will make anything else not that holy... Delphi is a location at greece, where the Oracle women saw things... so you can see that greek is very pupolar in computer names :) I'm very pround at Pascal, but we never actually marked this language even Borland never did so (I never seen borland's add in my country ... and I used to work at the same location (few streets actually) from where the company that market them is sitting... To market smart people use Pascal will never work! instead, we should build tools that people needs and can't do without, and they will need Pascal for that. In my country, there where two such tools in the past (two word proccessors), when one of them existed on *every* computer that needed word processor. The problem was, that Microsoft stolen that market, and it caused the company to close itself. I tried few years ago to talk with them in order to make the word processor open source, and even to pay some monay to them, but they never responded. There was/is another word processor that was written in pure TP, and now there is an attempt to make rewrite it to Windows... I tried to contact (after few contacts by them) them forther, but no luck :( So if you build something that people actually will need and use, then it will be much better then just try to sell the name Pascal or Lazarus IMHO. Michael. Ido _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On 5/14/06, Borut Maricic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * The success of Lazarus depends on the support for doing useful things in a reliable, nice and easy way - the name is not so important. Acctually I think that what makes a tool or language popular is propaganda, and the best propaganda on software development is having many popular software built with it! Being the best tool / language doesn´t necessarely bring popularety. The best thing that would happen for Lazarus IMHO, would be more popular software built with it on the Linux distributions. So people will start noticing it, and using it. KDE for example, is a major propaganda for Qt. They even ship KDE with a Qt IDE!! I am already doing an effort to get the magnifier into Fedora Extras, but of course just one lone software isn´t enougth. * Lazarus is/will be on the radar screen of the Delphi users in the first place. Yes, Lazarus is targeted at Delphi programmers. It will be more independent as the help system improves, because then we can also attract new developers, not only Delphi developers. * However named, the name will become known through the unique qualities of the system and not the other way around. I believe it is already quite known, so that possible positive impacts of the name change are questionable. I see Lazarus gaining increasing popularety. Changing the name could cause confusion and have a negative (yet temporary) effect on this growth. * Abandoning the relation to and the mention of Pascal (because those not in the know regard it as a dead and never-of-any-use language) does not seem acceptable to me. This is the path borland headed to. They now say their language is Delphi, not Object Pascal. Shame on them. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Michael Van Canneyt wrote: If Lazarus puts pascal as a language on the map again, it's name is VERY well chosen indeed, as Lazarus rose again from the grave !! A RAD/IDE should not lock itself into one language only, but should rather strive to be compiler/language independent. Implementing this with the FPC would probably be proof enough that Pascal isn't dead. Calling it OpenRAD would probably be perfect, unless it's already taken. Thanks! -- Al _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
By the way, Why to have a PR noise at all? Why don't just keep doing its development and spreading it through its website as it is? Is it not enough what exists already? Márton Papp _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Al Boldi wrote: Michael Van Canneyt wrote: If Lazarus puts pascal as a language on the map again, it's name is VERY well chosen indeed, as Lazarus rose again from the grave !! A RAD/IDE should not lock itself into one language only, but should rather strive to be compiler/language independent. Over looked into the FCL/LCL how close they are tight with the compiler? Implementing this with the FPC would probably be proof enough that Pascal isn't dead. Calling it OpenRAD would probably be perfect, unless it's already taken. Thanks! -- Al _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By the way, Why to have a PR noise at all? Why don't just keep doing its development and spreading it through its website as it is? Agreed and that's why I usually don't respond to such threads and work instead on FPC :) _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sun, 14 May 2006 21:00:44 +0300 Al Boldi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Calling it OpenRAD would probably be perfect, unless it's already taken. That's a description, not a name. Micha _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Florian Klaempfl wrote: Al Boldi wrote: A RAD/IDE should not lock itself into one language only, but should rather strive to be compiler/language independent. Over looked into the FCL/LCL how close they are tight with the compiler? Couldn't this be addressed using plugins? Thanks! -- Al _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Michael Van Canneyt wrote: If Lazarus puts pascal as a language on the map again, it's name is VERY well chosen indeed, as Lazarus rose again from the grave !! A RAD/IDE should not lock itself into one language only, but should rather strive to be compiler/language independent. Implementing this with the FPC would probably be proof enough that Pascal isn't dead. This is very very hard to do. It could be done with a plug-in system - if you unload the Pascal parser then the IDE is no longer a Pascal IDE but now a C++ ide. For example, CodeTools/CodeInsight needs a parser to parse the text in the IDE window. You'd have to be able to unplug the Pascal CodeTools parser and plug another language CodeTools parser in. But this is much more man-power required than just focusing on one language. Look at Vim and Emacs - they are supposedly the tools which are supposed to handle multiple languages. But what good are they? Don't we have to build Emacs plug-ins in Lisp? Why not Emacs plug-ins in Pascal? There is always some language favor it seems. And Eclipse? It is favored for Java - even though it's supposed to be a multi language development tool. And as for BDS2006? It only handles C++/Pascal but why not Lisp, Perl, PHP? If Borland doesn't have the man power it is very slim chance that a small open source project can handle such a task. And then we have to beg the question - where do we draw the line? Which languages do we skip? Perl? Python? TCL? Algol? Right now it is easy to draw the line - Pascal. It's a very easy line to draw. If you let this line slip - it becomes very hard to draw. Where do you stop? How many languages are on the chocolate bar packaging before the chocolate bar package becomes so flooded with languages and so lacking of actual chocolate bar? _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sun, 14 May 2006 21:00:44 +0300 Al Boldi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Calling it OpenRAD would probably be perfect, unless it's already taken. That's a description, not a name. Micha Call it DevCo IDE then ;-) Just admit it - the best name for the IDE is Lars. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Al Boldi wrote: Florian Klaempfl wrote: Al Boldi wrote: A RAD/IDE should not lock itself into one language only, but should rather strive to be compiler/language independent. Over looked into the FCL/LCL how close they are tight with the compiler? Couldn't this be addressed using plugins? How? Lazarus depends also a lot on the classes implemented by FPC. See e.g. streaming of components. _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On 5/14/06, Al Boldi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A RAD/IDE should not lock itself into one language only, but should rather strive to be compiler/language independent. Implementing this with the FPC would probably be proof enough that Pascal isn't dead. Some other things were mentioned, but I think that people forgot the main reason why adding c++ for example to Lazarus would be very hard. Lazarus works on top of LCL, the Lazarus Component Library. LCL uses register calling convention, Pascal strings, and pascal classes. You would need to do like Borland did and add extensions to c++ so it can support those pascal features, and this means either extending a c++ compiler or creating a new one! The same for most other languages. This is necessare so you can link pascal .o files together with c++ .o files and make the c++ code able to understand the pascal functions / methods and call them. -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Hi, NOMAD is/was the name of a mainframe 4th generation language. What about Lotus? I always thought that is a silly name for software. Sure didn't hurt that products popularity until Microsoft could build\copy a better(?) Excel with its monolopy of software integrated into the OS. The name doesn't matter if the product is good Jim - Original Message - From: Borut Maricic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: lazarus@miraclec.com Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 5:26 AM Subject: Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise ! Just a few thoughts (MHOs): * The success of Lazarus depends on the support for doing useful things in a reliable, nice and easy way - the name is not so important. * Lazarus is/will be on the radar screen of the Delphi users in the first place. These could want to use it because of the multiplatform support, because it is free (which Delphi might become too!) and because of the Unicode support (when, sometime in the future, it perhaps becomes available also for win32). * However named, the name will become known through the unique qualities of the system and not the other way around. I believe it is already quite known, so that possible positive impacts of the name change are questionable. * Abandoning the relation to and the mention of Pascal (because those not in the know regard it as a dead and never-of-any-use language) does not seem acceptable to me. You do not suppress the name of your religion, ideology, your partner, etc. because there are some that have some objections on its/his/her properties. * Persons not acquainted with Christianity might have a problem associating the name with anything in particular. Those acquainted might associate it with the image of a man coming out of the tomb - not my favorite image. Is the current name unacceptable to people following other religions? - I can not tell, but it would not be good, if so. * The name based on a mythologycal association would perhaps be more widely acceptable than one based on religious association. In this respect, the concept of the Firebird would perhaps be more suitable. That one is, however, already being used for a very good open source DBMS (as most of us know). About firebirds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_bird_(mythology) Any ideas? * Finally, what about an acronym: Novel Open Multiplatform Application Development It could even have a combined version: NOMAD-Lazarus Regards, Borut _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sun, 14 May 2006 18:06:46 -0300 Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/14/06, Al Boldi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A RAD/IDE should not lock itself into one language only, but should rather strive to be compiler/language independent. Implementing this with the FPC would probably be proof enough that Pascal isn't dead. Some other things were mentioned, but I think that people forgot the main reason why adding c++ for example to Lazarus would be very hard. Lazarus works on top of LCL, the Lazarus Component Library. LCL uses register calling convention, Pascal strings, and pascal classes. You would need to do like Borland did and add extensions to c++ so it can support those pascal features, and this means either extending a c++ compiler or creating a new one! The same for most other languages. This is necessare so you can link pascal .o files together with c++ .o files and make the c++ code able to understand the pascal functions / methods and call them. The IDE is not only form designing. Many people would like to use one IDE for all of their source - pascal GUIs, php/html/js webpages, c++ tools/libs, perl/python/bash scripts ... We have already syntax highlighers for all of them. A plugin for code formatters and parsing tools could be useful. Although I have other priorities at the moment. Mattias _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Hello, I am a long-time reader of Linux Journal. Once, a long time ago, an offer of mine to write about Free Pascal in Linux Journal was turned down (actually, shunted to Linux gazette). I was therefore quite shocked when I discovered that in the latest issue of Linux Journal, Gambas is covered. Gambas is a Visual Basic clone for Linux. As a loyal Delphi and Lazarus user/developer, I was duly insulted by the blatant ignoring of Lazarus :-) The article covers creation of a small bugtracker (2 tables). The same application can be coded in Lazarus without a single line of code (!). Ok, maybe at most 3 lines: 1 to open the database, 1 to close it, and one to close the application :-) If there are other Lazarus users reading Linux Journal, I suggest they strongly protest and demand a review of Lazarus in Linux Journal! PR noise isn't this projects problem, it's its name. I heard of lazarus for a long time, but never really considered it to be serious. A name change would probably do a lot of good to this project. Thanks! -- Al _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Saturday 13 May 2006 09:55, Al Boldi wrote: Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Hello, I am a long-time reader of Linux Journal. Once, a long time ago, an offer of mine to write about Free Pascal in Linux Journal was turned down (actually, shunted to Linux gazette). I was therefore quite shocked when I discovered that in the latest issue of Linux Journal, Gambas is covered. Gambas is a Visual Basic clone for Linux. As a loyal Delphi and Lazarus user/developer, I was duly insulted by the blatant ignoring of Lazarus :-) The article covers creation of a small bugtracker (2 tables). The same application can be coded in Lazarus without a single line of code (!). Ok, maybe at most 3 lines: 1 to open the database, 1 to close it, and one to close the application :-) If there are other Lazarus users reading Linux Journal, I suggest they strongly protest and demand a review of Lazarus in Linux Journal! PR noise isn't this projects problem, it's its name. I heard of lazarus for a long time, but never really considered it to be serious. A name change would probably do a lot of good to this project. Thanks! -- Al I know I falling into to the abyss but what would you consider a better name? John _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Saturday 13 May 2006 10:24, L505 wrote: A name change would probably do a lot of good to this project. It does sound like some sort of disease - I used to be made fun of in school for my short and precise name (Lars) since it is a European name and it is rarer to find where I live. Mean people would call me Lazarus.. Why was it so bad to be called Lazarus? What was it that made them think that would insult me? I guess it is something about how it rings off the tongue. As for GNU - it's just as dumb, but somehow it caught on for who knows what reasons. Visual C++ sounds kind of funny too since it is almost zero visual development and lots of text editing. Funny names might not affect the project that much - maybe a little. I could see you having some issues with the name. But kids are able to make fun of most names. Pascal (or Pascale) = pass gas. So I don't think the Lazarus name brings anything unusual to the table. Lazarus - I doubt it has anything to do with keeping it out of the Linux Journal. They printed an article on Gambas. In Spanish it means shrimp. It does sound a little funny. But the name does not give me any special attention. Maybe the editors have watching Delphi fall from favor in the MS world and figure few care about it in the Linux world. Or maybe they didn't like how the article was written. Who knows! I do know it doesn't help the cause when others see statements like Lazarus is a hobby (although it is a serious hobby) from recent posting. John _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On 5/13/06, johnf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They printed an article on Gambas. In Spanish it means shrimp. On portuguese, Gambas is a black and white animal that stinks a lot when scared =) -- Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: On 5/13/06, johnf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They printed an article on Gambas. In Spanish it means shrimp. On portuguese, Gambas is a black and white animal that stinks a lot when scared =) Skunk in English. I used to own one. Darn things bite hard too. Ours was de-stinked. ;-) It was quite a site to see him and the dogs playing with each other in the yard. Pretty foul-tempered too. I'd never own another. -Tony _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On 5/13/06, Tony Maro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: On 5/13/06, johnf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They printed an article on Gambas. In Spanish it means shrimp. On portuguese, Gambas is a black and white animal that stinks a lot when scared =) Skunk in English. I used to own one. Darn things bite hard too. Ours was de-stinked. ;-) It was quite a site to see him and the dogs playing with each other in the yard. Pretty foul-tempered too. I'd never own another. -Tony LOL. I know one name for it (the animal) is 'ratel', but don't know whether this is the word that's most commonly used or not... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratel Anyway, back to the serious subject: Michael, couldn't it be that Lazarus and FPC weren't mature enough at the time? (since you said it was long time ago...) Any chance you can give it another try? If you have any other hint that might suggest it was some kind of preconception I sure will be one of the guys to complain (write) to LJ ;-) I don't think Lazarus' lack of momentum has anything with the name, but as somebody already said some days ago in another thread, I think mixing religion with anything is a bad idea... I wouldn't mind 'lazarus' changing name to anything of greek mitology too (like Delphi and Kylix are) or whatever ;-) Cheers, Flávio _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
On Sat, 13 May 2006, Flávio Etrusco wrote: On 5/13/06, Tony Maro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote: On 5/13/06, johnf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They printed an article on Gambas. In Spanish it means shrimp. On portuguese, Gambas is a black and white animal that stinks a lot when scared =) Skunk in English. I used to own one. Darn things bite hard too. Ours was de-stinked. ;-) It was quite a site to see him and the dogs playing with each other in the yard. Pretty foul-tempered too. I'd never own another. -Tony LOL. I know one name for it (the animal) is 'ratel', but don't know whether this is the word that's most commonly used or not... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratel Anyway, back to the serious subject: Michael, couldn't it be that Lazarus and FPC weren't mature enough at the time? (since you said it was long time ago...) They didn't even mention that. FPC was mature, at the time. I didn't offer to write about Lazarus. (which was just born back then, if I remember correctly) Personally, I thought it was the old 'Pascal is dead' argument.. Any chance you can give it another try? If you have any other hint that might suggest it was some kind of preconception I sure will be one of the guys to complain (write) to LJ ;-) I'm not going to give it another try. If asked, I will write it, but I'm not going to offer it anymore. I don't think Lazarus' lack of momentum has anything with the name, but as somebody already said some days ago in another thread, I think mixing religion with anything is a bad idea... I wouldn't mind 'lazarus' changing name to anything of greek mitology too (like Delphi and Kylix are) or whatever ;-) Well: I don't think that after so many years, Lazarus should change it's name. People taking offense at this name only make themselves ridiculous. I refuse to take that (or them) serious. ( Yes, and I will take the risk that I will burn eternally in hell for this ;-) ) If I remember correctly, the FPC irc channel was once mistakenly confused with a channel for people with peculiar sexual tastes. Should we be offended by this and change the name ? No... Michael.
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Michael Van Canneyt wrote: Well: I don't think that after so many years, Lazarus should change it's name. People taking offense at this name only make themselves ridiculous. I refuse to take that (or them) serious. ( Yes, and I will take the risk that I will burn eternally in hell for this ;-) ) If I remember correctly, the FPC irc channel was once mistakenly confused with a channel for people with peculiar sexual tastes. Okay now I'm curious... what KIND of sexual tastes? Never mind. Sorry I asked. And I agree - if you're going to take offense at a project name, why the heck do you use SATAN for scanning your network? ;-) Or is that SAINT... lol I agree that changing the name needs to be seriously considered. We recently went through the same question regarding my company name. Finally we came to the conclusion that we got better brand recognition with the current name even though a new name might fit our service offerings better. I mean, how many people really know what 3M stood for? Originally it was a VERY poor choice for a name considering what they end up selling now (i.e. post-it notes.) But, they have enough brand recognition if they tried to change it, it would be disastrous. So the question is, do enough _programmers_ know what Lazarus is to dissuade a name change? Or is it still obscure enough that we'd get more recognition from a more targeted name? -Tony _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
Re: [lazarus] Request for PR noise !
Michael Van Canneyt a écrit : People taking offense at this name only make themselves ridiculous. I refuse to take that (or them) serious. ( Yes, and I will take the risk that I will burn eternally in hell for this ;-) ) As far as I am concerned, it is not a matter of offense. I am as atheist as you are (if not more :-) The problem with Lazarus is that it is a very bad name. There is nothing in it that is linked to the software itself or that suggests something pleasant. To keep the idea that is behind Lazarus, for instance, Phoenix would have been a better choice. But, as a matter of fact, any X-FPC or FPC-X would have been better. Not that these names are good, just it is very difficult to be worst than Lazarus. Maybe a change of name could be justified by arguing that Lazarus was a temporary name used during the beta phase, or something. The Lazarus team (btw, re-read the two previous words and tell me you don't immediately think of some preacher gang ;-) , the Lazarus team could organize a poll like Which name do you suggest for the release 1.0? If most Lazarus users are aware of the change of name and, in more, are asked to participate to this change, there will be no problem. mm _ To unsubscribe: mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe as the Subject archives at http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailarchives
