Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-03-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2014, at 10:15, LizR wrote: On 1 March 2014 21:03, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Mar 2014, at 02:06, LizR wrote: On 1 March 2014 03:22, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 26 Feb 2014, at 03:31, LizR wrote: Indeed. I have mentioned at times that if you accept

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-03-02 Thread LizR
On 2 March 2014 21:33, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Because 1+1=2 is elementary math, learned in high school. 1+1=2 is a fact is a non trivial philosophical statement, which involved a non trivial notion like fact. I have seen people discussing ad nauseam on what is a fact, and

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-03-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Mar 2014, at 10:49, LizR wrote: On 2 March 2014 21:33, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Because 1+1=2 is elementary math, learned in high school. 1+1=2 is a fact is a non trivial philosophical statement, which involved a non trivial notion like fact. I have seen people

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-03-01 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2014, at 02:06, LizR wrote: On 1 March 2014 03:22, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 26 Feb 2014, at 03:31, LizR wrote: Indeed. I have mentioned at times that if you accept Yes Doctor the rest of comp follows. Which I realise isn't quite true, ? You might elaborate on this.

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-03-01 Thread LizR
On 1 March 2014 21:03, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Mar 2014, at 02:06, LizR wrote: On 1 March 2014 03:22, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 26 Feb 2014, at 03:31, LizR wrote: Indeed. I have mentioned at times that if you accept Yes Doctor the rest of comp follows.

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-28 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Feb 2014, at 03:31, LizR wrote: On 26 February 2014 15:16, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Liz In the MWI you do see spin up every time! ,,, if the definition of you has been changed to accommodate the fact that you've split. Well what definition of 'you' do you

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-28 Thread David Nyman
On 26 February 2014 17:04, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi David, On 24 Feb 2014, at 17:32, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 15:50, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 24 Feb 2014, at 02:41, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 01:04, chris peck

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-28 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 26 Feb 2014, at 19:37, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: provide the algorithm of prediction. Why? What does that have to do with the price of eggs? FPI is about the feeling of self and prediction has nothing to do with it.

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-28 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Sorry, I was guessing something along the lines of FPI = first person interpretation. ??? !!! You are the one describing the FPI as a crazy discovery. No, I'm the one who keeps saying that first person

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-28 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Feb 2014, at 15:28, David Nyman wrote: On 26 February 2014 17:04, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Hi David, On 24 Feb 2014, at 17:32, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 15:50, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 24 Feb 2014, at 02:41, David Nyman wrote: On 24

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-28 Thread LizR
On 1 March 2014 03:22, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 26 Feb 2014, at 03:31, LizR wrote: Indeed. I have mentioned at times that if you accept Yes Doctor the rest of comp follows. Which I realise isn't quite true, ? You might elaborate on this. What is the rest, and why do you

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-28 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 28 Feb 2014, at 19:14, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Sorry, I was guessing something along the lines of FPI = first person interpretation. ??? !!! You are the one describing the FPI as a crazy discovery. No, I'm the one

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 05:26:02 +0100 On 25 Feb 2014, at 07:31, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Greaves rejects subjective uncertainty. With respect to spin up and spin down pay special attention

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-27 Thread Bruno Marchal
mathematics. Bruno All the best Chris From: allco...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 07:33:21 +0100 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 2014-02-26 7:31 GMT+01:00 chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com: Hi Liz I meant changed from

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-26 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi David, On 24 Feb 2014, at 17:32, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 15:50, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 24 Feb 2014, at 02:41, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 01:04, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: This is the same as saying that I will

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-26 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: provide the algorithm of prediction. Why? What does that have to do with the price of eggs? FPI is about the feeling of self and prediction has nothing to do with it. FPI = first person indeterminacy Sorry, I was

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread Quentin Anciaux
your hands in the air demanding more and more to unceremoniously and uncritically ditch is no-ones idea of fun. All the best Chris. -- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:26:52 +1300 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) From: lizj...@gmail.com

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread chris peck
they are arguing and how that is different. See upper Quentin Waving your hands in the air demanding more and more to unceremoniously and uncritically ditch is no-ones idea of fun. All the best Chris. Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:26:52 +1300 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread Quentin Anciaux
. -- From: allco...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 10:43:33 +0100 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 2014-02-25 8:43 GMT+01:00 chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com: Hi Quentin *That's nonsense, * The point

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:37 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Did the Helsinki Man see Washington and Moscow? Yes. In the 3-1 view. Not in the 1-1 view. In who's 1-1 view? You'll probably say in The Helsinki Man's No. The W-man and the M-m But that's 2 not one, so if

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Feb 2014, at 01:05, chris peck wrote: The point is that how probability fits into MWI's determinist framework, or any TofE really, is still an open question. Of course, and my point is that comp aggravates that problem, as only extends the indterminacy from a wave to arithmetic.

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Feb 2014, at 10:43, Quentin Anciaux wrote: David Deutsch does not reject probability... Sure he does, he swaps out the Born rule for rational decision theory (+ amendments to make it compatible with MWI). There isn't probability, but we should act 'as if' there was. Its what he's

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Feb 2014, at 18:35, John Clark wrote: provide the algorithm of prediction. Why? What does that have to do with the price of eggs? FPI is about the feeling of self and prediction has nothing to do with it. FPI = first person indeterminacy of result of experience having two

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread chris peck
views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:21:00 +0100 On 25 Feb 2014, at 18:35, John Clark wrote: provide the algorithm of prediction. Why? What does that have to do with the price of eggs? FPI is about the feeling of self and prediction has

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread LizR
On 26 February 2014 15:16, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Liz * In the MWI you do see spin up every time! ,,, if the definition of you has been changed to accommodate the fact that you've split. * Well what definition of 'you' do you suggest we use? What is your criterion

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread chris peck
'if the definition of you has been changed to accommodate the fact that you've split' Changed from which definition? All the best Chris. Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 15:31:01 +1300 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) From: lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread LizR
On 26 February 2014 15:53, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Liz *Assuming comp it appears to be the state(s) that could follow on from your current brain state via whatever transitions rules are allowed by - I assume - logical necessity. Perhaps Bruno can explain.* let me ask

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:21:00 +0100 On 25 Feb 2014, at 18:35, John Clark wrote: provide the algorithm of prediction. Why? What does that have to do with the price of eggs? FPI is about the feeling of self and prediction has

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 25 Feb 2014, at 07:31, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Greaves rejects subjective uncertainty. With respect to spin up and spin down pay special attention to the point in section 4.1 where, in discussion of a thought experiment formally identical to Bruno's step 3, he argues: What ... should

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread chris peck
sees both. All that 1p,3p,3-1p,1-3p stuff is a rubbishy smoke screen to divert attention from the simple error you make here, isn't it? All the best Chris. From: marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Wed, 26

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread Quentin Anciaux
the best Chris. -- From: marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 05:26:02 +0100 On 25 Feb 2014, at 07:31, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Greaves rejects subjective

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread Quentin Anciaux
for your has equal probability of happening...) Quentin All the best Chris. -- From: marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 05:26:02 +0100 On 25 Feb 2014

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread chris peck
Chris. From: allco...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 07:28:53 +0100 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 2014-02-26 7:21 GMT+01:00 chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com: Hi Bruno Yes, it is the common confusion between 1

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread Quentin Anciaux
. -- From: allco...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 07:28:53 +0100 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 2014-02-26 7:21 GMT+01:00 chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com: Hi Bruno Yes, it is the common confusion between 1

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread chris peck
on the mind-body problem and much else besides but so what? They do far better when it comes to probability assignment and subjective uncertainty, imho. All the best Chris From: allco...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 07:33:21 +0100 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-25 Thread LizR
On 26 February 2014 19:31, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Liz * I meant changed from our everyday definition, in which we normally assume there is only one you, which is (or is at least associated with) your physical structure. Which we generally assume exists in one

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-24 Thread Bruno Marchal
(was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 07:56:14 +0100 On 22 Feb 2014, at 21:09, LizR wrote to Clark (with the above pap = the FPI of step 3): The above pap is only a small step in an argument (and it only reproduces a result obtained in the MWI, anyway). OK

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-24 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 24 Feb 2014, at 02:41, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 01:04, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: This is the same as saying that I will experience all possible futures in the MWI - but by the time I experience them, of course, the version of me in each branch will be

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-24 Thread David Nyman
On 24 February 2014 15:50, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 24 Feb 2014, at 02:41, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 01:04, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: *This is the same as saying that I will experience all possible futures in the MWI - but by the time I

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-24 Thread chris peck
views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) To: everything-list@googlegroups.com On 24 February 2014 15:50, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 24 Feb 2014, at 02:41, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 01:04, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: This is the same as saying

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-24 Thread LizR
On 25 February 2014 13:05, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: Since Everett there have been numerous attempts to smuggle an account of probability back into the theory, and more recent attempts: Deutsch, Wallace, Greaves etc., do that by abandoning the concept of subjective

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-24 Thread chris peck
frequencies of me seeing ups and downs but not probabilities of seeing up or down. All the best Chris. Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 13:30:48 +1300 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) From: lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com On 25 February 2014 13:05, chris peck

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-24 Thread LizR
On 25 February 2014 16:54, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Liz * I can't see why the MWI's existing explanation of probability needs to have anything added.* I can't see that MWI has an explanation of probability. *Probability in the MWI is deduced from the results of

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-24 Thread Quentin Anciaux
:32:01 + Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) To: everything-list@googlegroups.com On 24 February 2014 15:50, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 24 Feb 2014, at 02:41, David Nyman wrote: On 24 February 2014 01:04, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-24 Thread LizR
In the MWI you *do* see spin up every time! ,,, if the definition of you has been changed to accommodate the fact that you've split. Or to put it another way, you (now) will become you (who sees spin up) and you (who sees spin down), which by then will be two different people. -- You received

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-24 Thread chris peck
, 25 Feb 2014 20:26:52 +1300 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) From: lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com In the MWI you do see spin up every time! ,,, if the definition of you has been changed to accommodate the fact that you've split. Or to put

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-23 Thread chris peck
manage that. All the best Chris. From: marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 07:56:14 +0100 On 22 Feb 2014, at 21:09, LizR wrote to Clark (with the above pap = the FPI of step 3

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-23 Thread chris peck
duplicated. Certainly for me he doesn't manage that. All the best Chris. From: marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 07:56:14 +0100 On 22 Feb 2014, at 21:09, LizR wrote to Clark

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-23 Thread David Nyman
On 24 February 2014 01:04, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: *This is the same as saying that I will experience all possible futures in the MWI - but by the time I experience them, of course, the version of me in each branch will be different, and it always seems to me,

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-23 Thread LizR
On 24 February 2014 14:04, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Liz * Let's also suppose you don't know which solar system you will be sent to, and that in fact the matter transmitter is supposed to send you to A or B with equal probability based on some quantum coin flip. But by

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-23 Thread Quentin Anciaux
/abs/quant-ph/0312136 All the best Chris. -- From: chris_peck...@hotmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 01:04:53 + Hi Liz * Let's also suppose you don't know

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-22 Thread John Clark
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Did the Helsinki Man see Washington and Moscow? Yes. In the 3-1 view. Not in the 1-1 view. In who's 1-1 view? You'll probably say in The Helsinki Man's, but his view is just of Helsinki. Perhaps you mean the future 1

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-22 Thread LizR
The above pap is only a small step in an argument (and it only reproduces a result obtained in the MWI, anyway). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-22 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:45 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Did the Helsinki Man see Washington and Moscow? Yes. In the 3-1 view. Not in the 1-1 view. In who's 1-1 view? You'll probably say in The

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-22 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 22 Feb 2014, at 19:45, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Did the Helsinki Man see Washington and Moscow? Yes. In the 3-1 view. Not in the 1-1 view. In who's 1-1 view? You'll probably say in The Helsinki Man's, No. The

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-22 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 22 Feb 2014, at 21:09, LizR wrote to Clark (with the above pap = the FPI of step 3): The above pap is only a small step in an argument (and it only reproduces a result obtained in the MWI, anyway). OK, but the MWI is a big thing, relying on another big thing: QM. The FPI assumes

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-21 Thread LizR
On 21 February 2014 16:48, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Liz *Suppose for the sake of argument that the matter transmitter sends you to another solar system where you will live out the reminder of your life. Maybe you committed some crime and this is the consequence, to be

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-21 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: if it is about a prediction on 1p events, the specificity is simple: we have to interview all the copies. Then don't just talk to the Moscow Man and say that is enough to disprove the prediction that the Helsinki Man will see

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-21 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2014-02-21 19:07 GMT+01:00 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com: On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: if it is about a prediction on 1p events, the specificity is simple: we have to interview all the copies. Then don't just talk to the Moscow Man and say that is enough

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-21 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 21 February 2014 14:48, chris peck chris_peck...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Liz Suppose for the sake of argument that the matter transmitter sends you to another solar system where you will live out the reminder of your life. Maybe you committed some crime and this is the consequence, to be

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-21 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 21 Feb 2014, at 19:07, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: if it is about a prediction on 1p events, the specificity is simple: we have to interview all the copies. Then don't just talk to the Moscow Man and say that is enough to disprove

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Feb 2014, at 19:36, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: Be consistent reject MWI on the same ground... don't bother adding the argument that you can't meet your doppelganger, So you want me to defend my case but

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 19 Feb 2014, at 20:53, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-02-19 19:36 GMT+01:00 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com: On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: Be consistent reject MWI on the same ground... don't bother adding the argument that you can't meet

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
of another debate, as UDA importantly does not assume QM. Bruno From: allco...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 20:53:46 +0100 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 2014-02-19 19:36 GMT+01:00 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-20 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:47 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I can say today that I am the guy having answered your post of last week. But if duplicating chambers exist then there are lots of people who could say exactly the same thing, so more specificity is needed. and

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 20 Feb 2014, at 16:59, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:47 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I can say today that I am the guy having answered your post of last week. But if duplicating chambers exist then there are lots of people who could say exactly the

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-20 Thread chris peck
but as I see it probabilities, however small, get rounded up to 1 in MWI scenarios. All the best Chris. From: marc...@ulb.ac.be To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 20:45:39 +0100 On 20 Feb 2014, at 16:59

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-20 Thread chris peck
or at least half of it. All the best Chris. From: chris_peck...@hotmail.com To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:48:43 + Hi Liz Suppose for the sake of argument that the matter transmitter sends you

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-20 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 03:48:43AM +, chris peck wrote: My probabilities get assigned in the same way. ie: chance of seeing solar system A is 1. I can't assign a probability of seeing Solar System B if I don't know about the possibility of accidents. But, If I know that there is a

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-20 Thread chris peck
+1100 From: li...@hpcoders.com.au To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 03:48:43AM +, chris peck wrote: My probabilities get assigned in the same way. ie: chance of seeing solar system A is 1. I

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-20 Thread Bruno Marchal
views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 03:48:43 + Hi Liz Suppose for the sake of argument that the matter transmitter sends you to another solar system where you will live out the reminder of your life. Maybe you committed some crime

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-20 Thread Quentin Anciaux
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 20:45:39 +0100 On 20 Feb 2014, at 16:59, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:47 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I can say today that I am the guy having

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-19 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: Be consistent reject MWI on the same ground... don't bother adding the argument that you can't meet your doppelganger, So you want me to defend my case but specifically ask me not to use logic in doing so. No can do.

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-19 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2014-02-19 19:36 GMT+01:00 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com: On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: Be consistent reject MWI on the same ground... don't bother adding the argument that you can't meet your doppelganger, So you want me to defend my case but

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-19 Thread chris peck
Chris. From: allco...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 20:53:46 +0100 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 2014-02-19 19:36 GMT+01:00 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com: On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-19 Thread LizR
You are looking at a geiger counter pointing at a radioactive source. On average, it clicks about once every other second. Do you expect to hear it click in the next second? What is wrong with the above question? It seems to me exactly equivalent in probability terms to do you expect to see

RE: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-19 Thread Quentin Anciaux
:53:46 +0100 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 2014-02-19 19:36 GMT+01:00 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com: On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: Be consistent reject MWI on the same

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-19 Thread Quentin Anciaux
' in the mistaken belief that it has a legitimate place in Everettian MWI. All the best Chris. -- From: allco...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 20:53:46 +0100 Subject: Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room) To: everything-list@googlegroups.com

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Feb 2014, at 19:49, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: what exactly is the question? Be specific and DON'T HIDE BEHIND PRONOUNS WITH NO CLEAR REFERENT. The question is what do you [blah blah] DON'T HIDE BEHIND PRONOUNS

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-18 Thread Platonist Guitar Cowboy
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 17 Feb 2014, at 19:49, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: what exactly is the question? Be specific and DON'T HIDE BEHIND PRONOUNS WITH NO CLEAR REFERENT.

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Feb 2014, at 19:52, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:33 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: if Mr. he is the fellow who is experiencing Helsinki right now then the correct prediction would be Mr. he will see neither Washington NOR Moscow. Simple calculus

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-17 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: what exactly is the question? Be specific and DON'T HIDE BEHIND PRONOUNS WITH NO CLEAR REFERENT. The question is what do you [blah blah] DON'T HIDE BEHIND PRONOUNS WITH NO CLEAR REFERENT. You = the unique 1p

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 15 Feb 2014, at 19:30, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: The 3-1 view is the 3p view on the 1p views, note the plural, after the duplication. That is far more convoluted than it need to be, it's really not all that

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-16 Thread John Clark
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 , Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: A typical observation will be the diary of the guy in W assess that he is in W, and (perhaps) that he could not have predicted that, That is incorrect, the Helsinki Man could have successfully predicted that the Washington

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-16 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Feb 2014, at 17:46, John Clark wrote: On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 , Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: A typical observation will be the diary of the guy in W assess that he is in W, and (perhaps) that he could not have predicted that, That is incorrect, the Helsinki Man could have

Re: 3-1 views (was: Re: Better Than the Chinese Room)

2014-02-15 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: The 3-1 view is the 3p view on the 1p views, note the plural, after the duplication. That is far more convoluted than it need to be, it's really not all that complicated. After the duplication both the Washington Man