Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-31 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 21:59 -0400, Robert Krawitz wrote: Let's take layers as an example (because this is one of the more annoying ones to me). Having only one layers dialog has two undesirable consequences: For the rare cases where you need more than one Layers dialog, you can open a

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-31 Thread Laxminarayan Kamath
On 10/28/07, Akkana Peck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guillermo Espertino writes: Tabs don't work for image manipulation because is frequent to compare between two+ images or work with two views (one zoomed and the other at 100%) . If we use tabs we have only one image open at a time and that's

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-31 Thread Robert Krawitz
From: Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:54:11 +0100 On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 21:59 -0400, Robert Krawitz wrote: Let's take layers as an example (because this is one of the more annoying ones to me). Having only one layers dialog has two undesirable

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-31 Thread Thorten Wilms
On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 07:20 -0400, Robert Krawitz wrote: Using 2.4.0, I tried opening three images, and typing ctrl-L in each to open a layers dialog. It only opened the one dialog (and again, as soon as I move the mouse into one of the images, the image in the layers dialog changes).

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-31 Thread saulgoode
Quoting Robert Krawitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] For the rare cases where you need more than one Layers dialog, you can open a second (or even a third one). At least currently GIMP doesn't keep you from doing that. Using 2.4.0, I tried opening

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-31 Thread Robert Krawitz
From: Thorten Wilms [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:10:31 +0100 On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 07:20 -0400, Robert Krawitz wrote: Using 2.4.0, I tried opening three images, and typing ctrl-L in each to open a layers dialog. It only opened the one dialog (and again, as

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-30 Thread David Marrs
Guillermo Espertino wrote: I understand. It's clear that everyone's preference may vary on this subject: -Photoshop users will ask for floating windows nested in a container window. They ask for an MDI structure because that's what they know, but I suspect they'll be happy with any

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-30 Thread Jon A. Cruz
On Oct 30, 2007, at 2:44 PM, David Marrs wrote: They ask for an MDI structure because that's what they know, but I suspect they'll be happy with any solution to their problem that works well. I believe that the main reason is legacy behavior from Windows 3.x. As I've mentioned before,

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-30 Thread Jon A. Cruz
On Oct 28, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Sven Neumann wrote: On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 15:06 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: Yes, I knew that (both the utility setting and the image dialog). What I meant was to polish those two features and make them work correctly in every platform (afaik the utility

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-30 Thread Robert Krawitz
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:44:56 + From: David Marrs [EMAIL PROTECTED] All Mac software ported to Windows uses the parent window model because - I suspect - it's the simplest solution to the where goes the omni-present menu bar? problem. You put it at the top of an

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 19:20 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: I looked at Opera, as it has been suggested here. It has very good options for managing tabs (manage different views and make tiles or cascades for multiple views, detach windows from the tabbed environment, etc.) I have

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread Guillermo Espertino
Hi, Sven Neumann escribió: Perhaps we are simply talking about different things. Of course GTK+ provides a notebook widget and what else would we need to implement this? Yes, we're talking about two different things :-) I meant detachable tabs and different views like Opera's or Scribus'

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 04:47 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: Yes, we're talking about two different things :-) I meant detachable tabs and different views like Opera's or Scribus' ones. Not JUST tabs. How is that different? We already have detachable tabs in the GIMP user interface. So

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread gg
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:30:53 +0100, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 19:20 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: I looked at Opera, as it has been suggested here. It has very good options for managing tabs (manage different views and make tiles or cascades for

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread Michael Natterer
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 11:34 +1030, David Gowers wrote: On 10/29/07, Alexandre Prokoudine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/29/07, Guillermo Espertino wrote: I looked at Opera, as it has been suggested here. It has very good options for managing tabs (manage different views and make tiles

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread Robert Krawitz
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:40:45 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sure there's tab widget. The point I was uncertain about was whether a second click on a tab would push it back in the z-order. I know Gimp is sometimes held back by limitations of GTK+ over which it has no direct

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread David Gowers
On 10/29/07, Michael Natterer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 11:34 +1030, David Gowers wrote: On 10/29/07, Alexandre Prokoudine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/29/07, Guillermo Espertino wrote: I looked at Opera, as it has been suggested here. It has very good

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread saulgoode
What Mitch is referring to is that tabs are raised when doing drag-n-drops. I wish to thank Mitch for his brilliant implementation of this at the last minute of the 2.4 release. This functionality is already extremely useful for d-n-d'ing colors, channels, and layers between tabs and would

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread Michael Natterer
On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 22:01 +1030, David Gowers wrote: On 10/29/07, Michael Natterer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 11:34 +1030, David Gowers wrote: On 10/29/07, Alexandre Prokoudine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/29/07, Guillermo Espertino wrote: I looked at

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread Christopher Curtis
On 10/28/07, Robert Krawitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Christopher Curtis [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Micahel Grosberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] here's the mockup (I made it long ago): http://www.geocities.com/preacher_mg/UI_gimp_menu.png I think the easiest way is with a

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread gg
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:28:07 +0100, Robert Krawitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:40:45 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sure there's tab widget. The point I was uncertain about was whether a second click on a tab would push it back in the z-order. I know

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread Shlomi Fish
Hi! On Sunday 28 October 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 21:12:33 +0100, Robert Krawitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think that making tabbed and floating live together is a very hard problem -- Firefox does that just fine (and it sounds like Opera does it even

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread Guillermo Espertino
Sven Neumann escribió: How is that different? We already have detachable tabs in the GIMP user interface. So why are you asking if this is possible? Sven: http://www.ohweb.com.ar/screenshots/Opera-tabs.png I know there are tabs wich are detachable already. I was talking about the way that

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 09:40 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure there's tab widget. The point I was uncertain about was whether a second click on a tab would push it back in the z-order. I know Gimp is sometimes held back by limitations of GTK+ over which it has no direct

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 08:52 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though this discussion of UI issues is academically interesting (and will eventually prove fruitful), if GEGL is to be integrated into GIMP then that needs to be the primary focus for the next version. Integrating GEGL is

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread jernej
On Monday, October 29, 2007, 14:15:28, Michael Natterer wrote: As Saul already responded that happens only if you use DND. Why on earth would a UI control activate just because you hover some seconds over it? That strikes me as utterly useless, what's the problem with pressing the mouse

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-29 Thread David Gowers
On 10/30/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday, October 29, 2007, 14:15:28, Michael Natterer wrote: As Saul already responded that happens only if you use DND. Why on earth would a UI control activate just because you hover some seconds over it? That strikes me as

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Filipe Soares Dilly
Hi; Great Mockup. I really like the idea. 2007/10/27, Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 15:53 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: In general I like this change. But we absolutely need to discuss how we want to handle multiple images with this approach. Things are

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Guillermo Espertino
Felipe: Tabs don't work for image manipulation because is frequent to compare between two+ images or work with two views (one zoomed and the other at 100%) . If we use tabs we have only one image open at a time and that's mostly a problem for pros. Another common procedure is to have two images

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Akkana Peck
Guillermo Espertino writes: Tabs don't work for image manipulation because is frequent to compare between two+ images or work with two views (one zoomed and the other at 100%) . If we use tabs we have only one image open at a time and that's mostly a problem for pros. Clearly it wouldn't

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Guillermo Espertino
Loo wrote: I'm not a developer, but I am a pro, and I would love to see some kind of tab implimentation--as long as the individual images can be undocked or detabbed allowing more than one image open at a time. In fact, that's the most profound idea I'd read about for the UI. Yes, sure.

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Henk Boom
On 28/10/2007, Guillermo Espertino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) As I proposed in my mockup, just make the toolbox and docker dependant of the active image. - When there is no image open: use the splash (one button in the taskbar named GIMP) - When there is one image open: panels

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Henk Boom
(I apologize if this is duplicate, I used the wrong from address in my previous email so it doesn't seem to be getting accepted by the list) On 28/10/2007, Guillermo Espertino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) As I proposed in my mockup, just make the toolbox and docker dependant of the active image.

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Guillermo Espertino
Henk: Yes, I knew that (both the utility setting and the image dialog). What I meant was to polish those two features and make them work correctly in every platform (afaik the utility setting seems to have some problems in windows, for instance) so can make them available as the default

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Robert Krawitz
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:25:38 -0300 From: Guillermo Espertino [EMAIL PROTECTED] Loo wrote: I'm not a developer, but I am a pro, and I would love to see some kind of tab implimentation--as long as the individual images can be undocked or detabbed allowing more than one image

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Robert Krawitz
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:18:12 -0700 From: Akkana Peck [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd love to see tabs as an option in image windows. As with Firefox, you'd be able to choose Open in new window versus Open in new tab in the same window. And of course you'd always have the New view

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 15:06 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: Yes, I knew that (both the utility setting and the image dialog). What I meant was to polish those two features and make them work correctly in every platform (afaik the utility setting seems to have some problems in

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 14:25 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: Creating a tabbed interface would require to completely transform the current one I don't see how a tabbed image window would be difficult to implement. It would even fit nicely with your proposal. Sven

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Micahel Grosberg
- Original Message From: Guillermo Espertino [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Filipe Soares Dilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]; gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:51:58 PM Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread jernej
On Sunday, October 28, 2007, 17:51:58, Guillermo Espertino wrote: Tabs don't work for image manipulation because is frequent to compare between two+ images or work with two views (one zoomed and the other at 100%) . If we use tabs we have only one image open at a time and that's mostly a

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Robert Krawitz
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:51:58 PM Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it... Felipe: Tabs don't work for image manipulation because is frequent to compare between two+ images or work with two views (one zoomed and the other

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Guillermo Espertino
I understand. It's clear that everyone's preference may vary on this subject: -Photoshop users will ask for floating windows nested in a container window. -Other users will ask for tabbed windows in a single window. -Gimp orthodox users will ask for individual windows Obviously it's impossible

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Robert Krawitz
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 16:59:03 -0300 From: Guillermo Espertino [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reading all the comments (including Sven's saying that tabbed windows isn't too difficult to implement) I can see that maybe a switchable interface between tabbed and floating would be the most

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread gg
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 21:12:33 +0100, Robert Krawitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think that making tabbed and floating live together is a very hard problem -- Firefox does that just fine (and it sounds like Opera does it even better). Not only do OPera do it better they invented tabbed

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 17:06 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: Inkscape uses utility windows that aren't confined to the main window limits. Utility windows are never confined to any window. It's just a window manager hint. And it is even clearly defined how the window manager should

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread jernej
On Sunday, October 28, 2007, 22:30:55, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now whether ffx did not copy that detail because they use gtk+ and the widget does not have that capability remains to be checked. (Linux Opera is qt). It's probably because Opera is still MDI under the hood - it just hides this

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Guillermo Espertino
Sven Neumann escribió: Nevertheless, if we can make sure that there's always a leader window, then using the utility hint is going to work much better than it does currently. Oh, I understand. I can see why Inkscape hasn't the same problem. But in their case they have a complete instance of

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Alexandre Prokoudine
On 10/29/07, Guillermo Espertino wrote: I looked at Opera, as it has been suggested here. It has very good options for managing tabs (manage different views and make tiles or cascades for multiple views, detach windows from the tabbed environment, etc.) I have to agree that it seems pretty

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Christopher Curtis
On 10/28/07, Robert Krawitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:03:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Micahel Grosberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] As an alternative, I'd like to suggest a UI setup I filched from Erdas Imagine (a GIS app). It sort-of emulates the Mac OS idea of starting

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Robert Krawitz
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:29:49 -0400 From: Christopher Curtis [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 10/28/07, Robert Krawitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:03:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Micahel Grosberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] As an alternative, I'd like to suggest a UI

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread David Gowers
On 10/29/07, Alexandre Prokoudine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/29/07, Guillermo Espertino wrote: I looked at Opera, as it has been suggested here. It has very good options for managing tabs (manage different views and make tiles or cascades for multiple views, detach windows from the

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread Robert Krawitz
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:34:54 +1030 From: David Gowers [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 10/29/07, Alexandre Prokoudine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/29/07, Guillermo Espertino wrote: I looked at Opera, as it has been suggested here. It has very good options for managing tabs

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-28 Thread GSR - FR
Hi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (2007-10-28 at 2029.49 -0400): On 10/28/07, Robert Krawitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:03:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Micahel Grosberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] As an alternative, I'd like to suggest a UI setup I filched from Erdas Imagine (a

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-27 Thread Micahel Grosberg
- Original Message From: peter sikking [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gimp Devel List gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:42:17 PM Subject: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it... Roadmapping what over-arching UI topics will be dealt with

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-27 Thread Guillermo Espertino
I agree what Peter Sikking wrote. It seems -to my user pov- that cairo migration is something that will provide new methods for addressing some maybe menor, but longstanding UI annoyances, and it's great putting that migration in the first place of the roadmap. What I'd like to propose is a

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-27 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Sat, 2007-10-27 at 15:53 -0300, Guillermo Espertino wrote: What I'd like to propose is a change in the UI for 2.6 (part of it is already possible with the current interface) to gain more screen space. The first thing I make every time I have a fresh install of gimp is taking the

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-27 Thread Sven Neumann
BTW, you can already try the unified menu if you pass the --disable-toolbox-menu option to configure. You will have to do this with a fresh installation though, or things won't work correctly. Currently this is only done when building on OS X for the Quartz GTK+ backend. But we will want to

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-26 Thread William Skaggs
My congratulations as well, great to see the release out! From: peter sikking [EMAIL PROTECTED] From my UI-redesign point of view, we need to get GEGL and Cairo in GIMP, else there is little chance of innovation in the UI. Also what the GIMP project needs right now is a short ( 6 months)

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-26 Thread Martin Nordholts
peter sikking wrote: GIMPsters, Half of the select/crop tools is still to-be-implemented, part of it (narrow situation) needs further specification and hmmm, Cairo is introduced. I say lets finish the select/crop tools making full use cairo, like transparency. Hello I have already started

Re: [Gimp-developer] 2.6 roadmapping, the UI part of it...

2007-10-26 Thread Sven Neumann
Hi, On Fri, 2007-10-26 at 11:02 -0700, William Skaggs wrote: (I also think that the first GEGL-based release should be called 3.0.) There will most likely be zero user-visible changes or new features due to the port of the core to GEGL. It would be very stupid to make that a major release. We