Re: Online Bookshops

[Robert Shiels]

I think we need a FAQ, I'm sure this has come up a few times.
-- 
Robert


- Original Message - 
From: "Richard Clyne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 14 June 2001 11:33
Subject: Online Bookshops


> If I'm trying to avoid Amazon for some technical books, what sites are
> currently suggested?
> Richard
> 
> 

Re: Online Bookshops

[Robert Shiels]

I like this lot.

http://www.alphabetstreet.infront.co.uk/computing/publishers/oreilly.jhtml

-- 
Robert

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 14 June 2001 12:23
Subject: Re: Online Bookshops


> Richard Clyne wrote:
> 
> > If I'm trying to avoid Amazon for some technical books, what sites are
> > currently suggested?
> > Richard
> 
> I always like the PC Bookshop
> 
> http://www.pcbooks.co.uk
> 
> It's also a real live bookshop, with a great selection of titles.
> (And I ALWAYS am suckered into buying more OReilly titles
> every time I go in. This time I bought a new edition of High Performance
> Computing, already having edition 1)
> 
> 

Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Jonathan Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Not to mention the way it discriminates totally against people who can't
> afford, don't have, morally object to, are too old to learn to use,
> computers.

How come. It's an alternative to, not a replacement for, the usual paper
based forms; isn't it?

/Robert

Re: www.gateway.gov.uk

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Jonathan Stowe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: www.gateway.gov.uk


> As a public service I would exhort all of you to go to this site and then
> complain when it tells you that you are using an 'Unsupported Browser'
> (which I guess will be more than half of you :)
>
I agree that this is pants. I don't see why I need cookies, javascript and
Java enabled. But I don't fully understand digital certificates.

Assume for a moment that I'm using lynx on Linux, and I want to send the
government my tax return securely. What are the security implications, can
it actually be done. I don't want to go off half-cocked and complain about
something when I don't fully understand why the alternative is better.

Could someone explain it to me, and give me an address to send my complaint
to, and I'll definitely do it.

/Robert

Re: Sony Clie (was Re: Social meet)

[Robert Shiels]

- Original Message -
From: "Neil Ford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> I would strongly suggest you check out the Palm M500/505 as they come in
the
> lovely Palm V form factor but have an expansion slot (taking both Secure
> Digital and Multimedia cards)
> http://www.palm.com/products/accessories/expansioncards/
>
Thanks Neil, as the M505 isn't available yet, I actually went for the M500.
It's pretty good, and I've just gotten IR syncing working to my Vaio so I
don't need to carry the cradle around with me.

I've used a quarter of a full charge today already though, which isn't very
impressive, my Palm III used to last ages on a couple of AAs, and I wouldn't
have dreamt of needing new batteries on a 2 week holiday.

/Robert

Re: Sony Clie (was: Re: Social meet)

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Dominic Mitchell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Sony: Lovely kit, crap support.
> 

Has anyone seen http://www.sonystyle.com/micros/clie/

/me drools.

/Robert

Re: Sony Clie (was: Re: Social meet)

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Paul Mison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> On 07/06/2001 at 10:45 +0100, Robert Shiels wrote:
>
> >Between 5 and 6pm I'll be wandering up and down TCR looking for a new
PDA.
> >Sony Clie is my preferred choice at the moment. If anyone knows a good
> >shop,
> >or is good at haggling and wants to help, I'm on 07801 814138.
>
> When this came up on IRC I asked at Micro Anvika who wanted 240 ukp inc
> vat for the basic package (8MB onboard, 8MB memory stick, etc). Mark
> Fowler paid about the same, but after haggling his way up and down the
> street, so I'd just cut the hassle and go there.

PCWorld were doing it for 249gbp, so I suppose 240gbp will save me a bit.
Thanks everyone, it's nice to know in advance the kind of price to expect.
I'm crap at haggling too.

scan.co.uk btw will charge me £252.63, (includes 10p&p). Not very good if
they can't undercut PCWorld.

/Robert

Re: Sony Clie (was: Re: Social meet)

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Dominic Mitchell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 07 June 2001 10:44
Subject: Sony Clie (was: Re: Social meet)


> On Thu, Jun 07, 2001 at 10:45:09AM +0100, Robert Shiels wrote:
> > Between 5 and 6pm I'll be wandering up and down TCR looking for a new
PDA.
> > Sony Clie is my preferred choice at the moment. If anyone knows a good
shop,
> > or is good at haggling and wants to help, I'm on 07801 814138.
>
> Has anybody got the USB syncing thing to work under Linux/BSD?  I tried
> coldsync, but unfortunately, the USB protocol that sony use appears to
> be completely different to the visor one that it supports.  :-(
>
I did some reading on this, and you are of course right. The Sony machine
has a serial interface, with some kind of USB conversion. Therefore you only
get serial speed from the sync, but you don't have to mess about with serial
ports and IRQs and stuff. I suppose I should get a PalmV, but I like Sony
stuff so much, and it does have the memory stick expansion slot.

/Robert

Re: Social meet

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Greg McCarroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
>
> i'm 07957 386 815
>
> i'm also going to be free this afternoon after about 2 ish (ill
> switch the phone on then) so if anyone wants to meet up before
> the meeting give me a bell

Between 5 and 6pm I'll be wandering up and down TCR looking for a new PDA.
Sony Clie is my preferred choice at the moment. If anyone knows a good shop,
or is good at haggling and wants to help, I'm on 07801 814138.

/Robert

Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-06-04

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Robin Szemeti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >whether there were any Masai tribespeople on the list. Anyone? Anyone?
> 
> reminds me of that Reggie Perrin snippet ..
> 'Is there anyone here from Tarporley ...'
> 
> I dunno .. maybe I'm getting old.

pass the earwig would you please...

/Robert

Re: crazy golf

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Roger Burton West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> On or about Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 01:27:44PM +0100, Paul Mison typed:
>
> >(Isn't
> >there an extra bank holiday next year for Golden Jubilee shenanigans?)
>
> http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/bankhol.htm
>
Well, as today is my first day working as a contractor, I want less
holidays, so that I can make more money. Thinking about it again, I'll just
make sure that the system needs some "essential" maintenance those days, and
increase my rate appropriately!

/Robert

Re: General Election - additional idea

[Robert Shiels]

>
> If we are at Dave's we could have a little competition, quite simply,
> write a CGI script that takes 2 or 3 numbers (cons seats, lab seat and
> others) and display some sort of visualisation of the numbers in
> classic Peter Snow style. The winner is the one judged coolest by
> the people at Dave's house. All scripts must be written in Perl
> and URLs should be submitted on the day.

I like this idea - is there anywhere that is providing this data in an
easily slurpable format so that the script can actually work without user
intervention?

/Robert

Re: General Election

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Cross David - dcross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> You'll have noticed, I hope, that next Thursday is both our June meeting
and
> a General Election. I hope you'll all go and vote before the meeting so
you
> don't have to dash off before the polling stations close :)
>
> Someone (Paul?) mentioned a couple of weeks ago that it might be nice if
we
> could all go somewhere after the pub to watch the results come in and...
> er... "celebrate" another victory for the christian democrats. If anyone
> still thinks this is a good idea, then I'm happy to offer my house as a
> venue for this. I suggest we leave the pub at about 9:30pm and get the
tube
> back to mine, stopping at Threshers en route.
>
What! You mean go south of the river after dark. I'm afraid I'm not properly
insured for that kind of excursion :)
Nice offer, though if I took it up my chances of making it home at all would
be very slim. Does anyone know what time the result is usually announced
(and 38 days is not an acceptable answer, this isn't Florida!)

/Robert

Re: [PUB] Possible candidate

[Robert Shiels]

> On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 11:16:09PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > Good Beer?
> > Nice surroundings (beer garden in summer/open fire in winter)?
> > Food that can be ate in bar?
> > Lots of seating?
> > Quiet (i.e. you can hear each other talk)?
> > Central to ``business'' London?
>
> Can we add accessibility to the list?  The main reason I  haven't been
> to many social meets recently is that i would have to climb stairs to
> get to you all and then climb down loads of stairs to get to the loo
> (e.g. Barrowboy and Banker).  At least the PO I climb down to get to
> you all and the loos are on the same level (good)...

I like PO a lot. Not being a CAMRA member, I'm quite happy to sup Stella or
TVRs or Theakstons, and the food is cheap. My financial advisor works in the
office next door to the PO and I've just coincidentally booked an
appointment with him for 4pm next Thursday :-)

/Robert

Re: Y::E accomodation

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Greg McCarroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 30 May 2001 13:13
Subject: Re: Y::E accomodation


> * Dean ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 12:53:00PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > > we were just talking on IRC and the subject of accomodation for
YAPC::Europe
> > > came up again,
> >
> > For those of us without the time for both the List and the IRC channel
is
> > there any chance of a summery about what the group plans are? Or is it a
free
> > for all?
> >
>
> there are no plans, and i'd rather not do this for several good reasons.
>
I'm not booking anything unless I have a ticket for the conference.
I don't have a ticket because they aren't selling them yet.
I am very close to not going at all now, as I have to plan a lot of other
things for August. This is a shame as I really enjoyed it last year.

/Robert

Re: Election Manifestos

[Robert Shiels]

Typical quotes from Simon this week:

"Oh, and fix your bloody line length."

"Roger, where we come from we have a word for people like that."

"Ripping that fucker out would be my first act. :)"

> If you didn't want your code to be used under the license terms you
> set, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE SET THEM. Deal with it.

...bad language and shouting isn't big, and it isn't clever.

/Robert

- Original Message - 
From: "Simon Cozens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 23 May 2001 22:00
Subject: Re: Election Manifestos


> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 09:50:47PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote:
> > @Mail (http://webbasedemail.com/) copied my code, my docs, and my
> > images without telling me, added a configuration file, and sold it. I
> > only found out about it by accident, which wasn't good. (it's changed
> > a lot since).
> 
> This is 100% within their rights.
> 
> > They could have handled it better. They could have told me about it,
> 
> Yes, but they didn't have to.
> 
> > So either I break up and cry at how lax the Artistic License is and
> > inflict viral GPL on all my code, or I just keep on going hacking
> > code. Which do I do? ;-)
> 
> If you didn't want your code to be used under the license terms you
> set, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE SET THEM. Deal with it.
> 

Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women

[robert shiels]

- Original Message -
From: "Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women


> At 20:50 20/05/2001, Mike Jarvis wrote:
> >Sunday, May 20, 2001, 3:19:47 AM, Dave Cross wrote:
> >
> >DC> And besides, since when could you work out how sexy a woman (or man)
was
> >DC> simply by looking at a photo.
> >
> >This is really two questions:
> >1) Can you tell from looking at a photo if this is someone you'd like
> >to have a relationship with?  (No)
> >
> >2) Can you tell from looking at a photo if this is someone you'd like
> >to have sex with?(Yes)
>
> OK. Well that's where I'm getting confused then. By believing the sex is
> also a relationship (however fleeting!) I think that the answer to 2 is
> also 'No' :)

Appropriately enough, I just got sent this:

"According to a recent survey, men say the first thing they notice about
a women are their eyes.  And women say the first thing they notice about
men are: they're a bunch of liars."

/Robert

Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?

[Robert Shiels]

I bought 3 CDs yesterday, about 32 quids worth . I downloaded 2 Napster
tracks last week.

I object to paying 3.99 gbp (for a single), or 12.99gbp  (for an album
track) to just get one song. However, if I hear another track from those
artists, and like it, I will probably get the full album.

I also use Napster (when I'm working somewhere with a big pipe) to get
digital copies of music that I've already paid for analogue copies of.

--
Robert


- Original Message -
From: "Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 20 May 2001 17:05
Subject: Re: O'Reilly Safari - anyone use it?


> At 13:27 20/05/2001, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote:
>
> >You can't expect to steal music and then bitch about how someone is
> >stealing copies of your book on line.
>
> True. But just so as we know where we all stand. I have only ever used
> Napster to find copies of unavailable music.
>
> Dave...
>
>
> --
>   SMS: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Advertise your book here. Ask me how!
>
>

Re: pc components

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Roger Burton West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> On or about Thu, May 17, 2001 at 10:57:23AM +0100, Greg McCarroll typed:
> >
> >Does anyone have a recommendation for an online provider of PC
components,
> >i'm looking for a couple of big hard drives (50Gb+).
>
> I've had success with DABS - just make sure the thing's in stock before
> ordering.

I ordered something from dabs recently, it was in stock before the order,
and mysteriously not in stock afterwards. I cancelled the order. I'd
probably check online, and phone them just to make sure they really have it.

/Robert

Re: A look over the shoulder of an XP programmer (auf deutsch)

[Robert Shiels]

[snip]
> Leon
> -- 
> Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
> Iterative Software...http://www.iterative-software.com/
> 
> ... 640K ought to be enough for anybody
> 
...is that dollars or pounds...

/Robert

T-Shirts

[Robert Shiels]

I was just wondering, have the secret T-shirt designs been sent off to the
printers yet ? The reason I ask is that I'd really like one of them to be
Hitch-Hiker related; or maybe we could have a special run of ZZ9 Plural Z
Alpha.PM shirts done.

--
Robert

Re: Enough!

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Robin Szemeti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> well .. I believe you have extended the analogy just a little bit too far
> :) . .the main reason _I_  decline to answer 'withheld number' calls is
> because almost every single one is a halfwit trying to sell me
> insurance/glazing/burglar alarms/toilet roll (yes.. really) even though

Yes - they generally call me between 6pm and 8pm. If we leave the phone to
the answering machine around this time, and the caller doesn't leave a
message, then 1471 always tells me that "The caller withheld their number".

We keep winning "free" holidays/windows/kitchens etc

I say "No - I do not want a free $gift"

and the people at the call center get quite indignant that I do want it, and
that I musn't understand the offer.

I have worked as a telemarketer, so feel a bit sorry for them as it's a shit
job, so I just say "No thanks" and hang up.

/Robert

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Greg McCarroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> * Martin Ling ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 01:30:42PM +0100, Chris Ball wrote:
> > > That's genius! I know, I'll call it.. Charismatic Leadership Theory.
> > > Wait. Someone already did, rather a long time ago now.. :)
> > Don't start me on all the stating-the-obviousness in psychology.

> I have some obvious theories about psychology - such as why psychologists
> never get invited to parties.
> 


The principle of generating small amounts of finite improbability
by  simply  hooking  the  logic circuits of a Bambleweeny 57 Sub-
Meson Brain to an atomic vector plotter  suspended  in  a  strong
Brownian  Motion  producer  (say  a  nice hot cup of tea) were of
course well understood - and such generators were often  used  to
break  the  ice  at  parties  by  making all the molecules in the
hostess's undergarments leap simultaneously one foot to the left,
in accordance with the Theory of Indeterminacy.

Many respectable physicists said that they weren't going to stand
for  this  -  partly  because it was a debasement of science, but
mostly because they didn't get invited to those sort of parties.


/Robert

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Steve Mynott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 14 May 2001 12:12
Subject: Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)


> "Robert Shiels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I'm neither completely left, or completely right. I would be happy to
pay
> > more income tax to improve health and education. I actually voted LibDem
>
> Why don't you simply pay more tax then?
>
> I am sure if you send a voluntary donation off to the Inland Revenue
> they will accept it.

I somehow doubt they have procedures for dealing with voluntary tax
payments, it's probably never happened...

/Robert

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Jonathan Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 3. Teachers are responsible for children taking their medicine. If a child
> has a critical allergy to (bee stings, etc, etc) the teachers are
> responsible for administering intra-venous beta blockers etc. They don't
> get paid more for being nurses too.
>
I'm not trying to negate your point, which I agree with, but I'm not sure if
this one is true. Teachers at my daughters school have refused to give
medicine to her, and to other children, some of whom are on constant
medication; their mother comes into the school to administer it.

You seem to know a lot about teachers though...

/Robert

Re: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Matthew Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I have deeply unfashionable political views, though. I think tax and spend
> is a *good idea*.
>
I'm neither completely left, or completely right. I would be happy to pay
more income tax to improve health and education. I actually voted LibDem
last time as that is what they were pledging. I think eye tests and
essential dental work should be on the NHS. I think every school should have
a full-time IT expert instead of getting an already overworked teacher to do
it in their non-existent spare time. On the other hand, I have very
unfashionable views on some other subjects which I'll keep quiet about...

/Robert

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Robert Shiels]

From: "James Powell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:23:50AM +0100, Robert Shiels wrote:
> > 
> > "If a man is not a socialist by the time he is twenty, he has no heart.
> > If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain."
> > -Winston Churchill
> > 
> > discuss:-)
> > 
> 
> How does that explain Garry Bushell and Jim Davidson ;)
> 
point taken :-)

/Robert

Re: BOFHs requiring license

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> At 17:38 13/05/2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
> >On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 05:22:49PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > > How can any socialist not feel that when it came to the crunch
> > socialism was
> > > rejected by intelligent people who understood its principals and
benefits
> > > intimitadly because they could see it would not work for modern
Britain?
> >
> >Which "intelligent people who understood it" would that be, then?
>
> Take a look around you. This list, being representative of the Perl
> community, tends towards the intelligent end of the spectrum. And from
what
> I've gathered from the conversations I've had with people here, the vast
> majority of us tend towards the left[1].
>
> Dave...
> [1] Cue indignant emails from the half-dozen of so right-wingers I know on
> the list :)

I've always been pretty right wing, and as I get older I'm getting worse :-)
My prediction is that Labour will win again (a no-brainer I know), and that
the Conservatives will elect a new leader. Over the next 4 years, Labour
will fail to deliver their promises yet again, and the country will swing
back to the party of low taxes, who will be re-elected in 2006. I've been on
an NHS waiting list since before Christmas actually, Labour isn't working
for me.

Thinking about it though, most of LondonPM seem left-wing to me too, but
I've put that down to the fact that most are quite young. I am reminded of:

"If a man is not a socialist by the time he is twenty, he has no heart.
If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain."
-Winston Churchill

discuss :-)

/Robert

Re:

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Greg McCarroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> would people mind if i turned up totally pissed from minute 0 to
> tonights meeting? 

How will we be able to tell

/Robert

Re: Buffy musings ...

[Robert Shiels]

- Original Message -
From: "Greg McCarroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> And while we are on the old films chestnut, my current recommendation
> is 'O Brother, where art thou?', excellent film. However I here Momento
> is a very good film as well.
>
I've just ordered this actually from
http://www.movietrak.com/home/index.html.

DVD rentals, delivered by post, keep it for 7 days and return in package
provided. 3.50gbp total cost.

/Robert

Re: Not Matt's Scripts

[Robert Shiels]

>
> Yes - it's a bit crap. And I'm having trouble with it (read: can't get it
> working).
>
> I think we should be able to put all the Win32 specific bits in one place,
> and have separate places for each external mailer program such as blat;
but
> blat is as good a place to start as any I suppose.
>

Well, finally got the formmail.pl script to work on win32 with blat. Tracked
my major difficulty down to a problem created by the person who ported it to
windows, $CONFIG has been used instead of the correct case which is $Config.
Can't imagine it's ever worked.

I'll have a look at Dave's later.

/Robert, needing to pretend to do some real work now!

Re: Not Matt's Scripts

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Robin Szemeti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 02 May 2001 11:02
Subject: Re: Not Matt's Scripts


> On Wed, 02 May 2001, you wrote:
> > Just had a look, and apparently the Formmail scripts have been ported to
> > Win32 and use something called Blat instead of sendmail. Is there any
reason
> > why we couldn't use Blat too? I'm looking into it to see if I can get it
> > working.
> ahh yes ...
> trouble is .. there must be half a dozen 'popular' mailers for win32
> ...blat is just one of many (or so I'm told) the only thing I remember is
> blat is a file based thing, you have to put your mail in a file on the
> disc and then tell blat to send it, at least thats the way formmial was
> using it.
> I did look at the said script many moons ago
> instead of
> if($win32){ send_win32($mail) }
> else { send_unix($mail) }
> it has
> sub send{
> do this ...
> err .. but not this bit if its unix.
> oh and this bit
> but add this bit for win32
> and take this bit off agin
> and this bit goes in for unix
> and then do this if its win32
>

Yes - it's a bit crap. And I'm having trouble with it (read: can't get it
working).

I think we should be able to put all the Win32 specific bits in one place,
and have separate places for each external mailer program such as blat; but
blat is as good a place to start as any I suppose.

/Robert

PS - has anyone done this one already on Win32, or shall I keep going.

Re: Not Matt's Scripts

[Robert Shiels]

Just had a look, and apparently the Formmail scripts have been ported to
Win32 and use something called Blat instead of sendmail. Is there any reason
why we couldn't use Blat too? I'm looking into it to see if I can get it
working.

--
Robert


- Original Message -
From: "Matthew Byng-Maddick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 02 May 2001 10:06
Subject: RE: Not Matt's Scripts


> On Wed, 2 May 2001, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > Yep. But Net::SMTP is not a stadard module and therefore sendmail wins.
>
> That wasn't the reason. The reason was the same as one of the reasons for
> rewriting matt's scripts in the first place - that the error handling
> sucks. You can't sensibly error handle with Net::SMTP. This is why there
> was discussion, however, on widnoze, (not sure about vanilla mac (rather
> than os x)) there is no sensible way to do a queued message.
>
> MBM
>
> --
> Matthew Byng-Maddick  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> +44 20  8980 5714  (Home)
> http://colondot.net/ +44 7956 613942  (Mobile)
> I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it. -- Mae West
>
>

Re: Company Name

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Redvers Davies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> > How did contractors here come up with the names for their companies, and
can
> > you think of anything with Shiels in the name that sounds good. I will
> > mainly be doing SAP work, but hope to get other IT work too, so don't
want
> > SAP in the name.
> I've always tried to avoid names which conjour up in the minds of
customers
> (or more importantly, the revenue) a small company.  So, Redvers Davies
Ltd
> or "Name Based" names were always out the window for me.

Thanks for this, and other advice. One good thing about advice, is that you
don't have to take it :-)

So "Shiels Consulting Ltd" is now active and ready for business!

I will be leaving my current employer very soon, maybe even today if we can
get the paperwork sorted out. Wish me luck...

/Robert

Re: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this

[Robert Shiels]

Have a look at her right big toe in this, has someone doctored the photo?

http://britneyspears.ac/bs/024b.jpg

-- 
Robert



- Original Message - 
From: "Robin Szemeti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 26 April 2001 21:19
Subject: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this


> amusing:
> 
> http://britneyspears.ac/lasers.htm
> 
> -- 
> Robin Szemeti
> 
> The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
> So I installed Linux!
> 
> 

Re: Good Accountants

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Robin Szemeti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote:
> > recommended Menzies (www.menzies.co.uk) to me, and I went to see

> > On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account?

> Flemings Premier Banking
> 01708 713317
> basically free for contractors (up to 20 cheques a month) and pay
> interest. I got several hundred quid in intrest last year. Telephone
> service and all that stuff.
> most impressed .. and I do have other business acounts to comapre it to.
> I would heartily recommend them. They are widely used by contractors.

Interesting. Flemings was actually recommended to me by Menzies last night.
So my accountant is clueful on this too, which is encouraging. Thanks.

/Robert

Re: Good Accountants

[Robert Shiels]

Where do you live?

DJ Adams recommended Menzies (www.menzies.co.uk) to me, and I went to see
them last night for the first time. They are going to set up my new company
for me too. They like IT contractors, and the partner I met with talked to
me for about 30 minutes on ways to avoid IR35 :-)

Very professional, I like them so far. Based in Kingston and have other
offices around Surrey.

On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account?

--
Robert


- Original Message -
From: "Gareth Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 26 April 2001 09:09
Subject: Good Accountants


> Can any of you contractor types recoomend a good accountant, as the one I
> was using (a friend of the family) suggested that I use an accountant who
> was more familiar with the IT contracting business, as he was more suited
to
> much larger companies.
>
> Thanks
> Gareth Harper
>
>
>

Re: Company Name

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Simon Cozens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 25 April 2001 13:15
Subject: Re: Company Name


> On Wed, Apr 25, 2001 at 09:02:16AM +0100, Robert Shiels wrote:
> > How did contractors here come up with the names for their companies
>
> Your main choice is between sounding "established", "professional" or
> "informal".
>
> "Established" companies contain merely names, and give no indication of
what
> they do: "Shiels and Company".
> (Examples from real life: "Ede and Ravenscroft", "Coutts".)
>
> "Professional" companies possibly contain a name and give *some*
indication of
> what they do: "Robert Shiels Consulting", "Shiels IT Services".
> (Examples: "Merchant Ivory Productions", "Barclay's Bank".)
>
> "Informal" companies contain one or two words which *hint* at what they
do,
> and no names (and are much harder to come up with. :) : "The SAP Workshop"
> (Examples: "Microsoft", "NetThink".)

Nice summary. I was going to go for "Shiels", but there is some plastics
company in Lancs that have it already. I thought of "Shiels IT Services",
but one potential acronym of this is not very pleasing :-)


/Robert

Company Name

[Robert Shiels]

I've decided to set up my own company and become a contractor. There are
quite a lot of decisions to be made, but the hardest one I'm finding is
thinking of a company name! So far my only ideas are simply "Shiels" or
"Shiels Consulting"; this is fairly obvious, and I already own the
shiels.com domain. I guess I could try "Shiels Enterprises" or "Shiels Inc",
but they seem pretty naff.

How did contractors here come up with the names for their companies, and can
you think of anything with Shiels in the name that sounds good. I will
mainly be doing SAP work, but hope to get other IT work too, so don't want
SAP in the name.

TIA
--
Robert

Re: Server Upgrade

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Philip Newton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Er, do you mean "will not be able to use the PC133s" or "will not be able
to
> use the PC100s and we'll need to get even slower RAM"?
>
> And AFAIK, if it takes SDRAM at all, you can put in whatever you want; the
> speed is determined by min(mobo bus speed, memory spec speed). I've got
> PC133 memory in my Celeron board (66 MHz bus) and it works fine; the
memory
> doesn't seem to care that it's accessed more slowly than it's capable of.
> (And another bank has, I think, PC100 memory in it -- the mix-n-match
> doesn't seem to be deleterious, either.)

Well, that sounds encouraging. Lets stick with the current order then - I
didn't know you could mix-n-match the two types of RAM on the same board,
I'm still thrilled that with DIMMs you don't need to add them in matching
pairs :-)

Even if there is a problem, I'll volunteer to buy the PC133 chips for my
server at home.

/Robert

Server Upgrade

[Robert Shiels]

http://se71.org/myimages/pm/picklist.jpg

is the picklist for our server. As expected, the DIMMs are PC100 and not
PC133. I strongly expect the motherboard will not be able to use the PC133s
so either we need to upgrade the mobo, or change the order to purchase
slower RAM. Can you try and do this before dabs dispatch the order Alex?

--
Robert

Re: What time tonight ?

[Robert Shiels]

I'm leaving now, chances are I'll be there 7.30-8 ish

see ya!
-- 
Robert


- Original Message - 
From: "dcross - David Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 19 April 2001 17:37
Subject: RE: What time tonight ?


> From: Simon Wilcox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 5:38 PM
> 
> > What time is the technical meeting starting tonight ?
> 
> oh. um. well. let's say 7:00pm. how does that sound?
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> The information contained in this communication is
> confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
> named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
> of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
> copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
> If you have received this communication in error, please 
> re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
> original message or any copy of it from your computer
> system.
> 
> 

Re: Beginners Guide

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Greg McCarroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> > But if you get a digital TV/receiver, surely BBC is available for free
> > without any subscriptions. If this is not the case then I think it's
> > criminal.
> >
>
> it is
>
I can read that two ways, do you mean it is free, or it is criminal. Sorry
if I'm being dim. I think you mean that it is free. So I need a digital
receiver, like those ondigital things, and that's all. Wonder how much they
cost.

/Robert

Re: Beginners Guide

[Robert Shiels]

- Original Message -
From: "Matthew Byng-Maddick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Personally I don't mind funding the beeb, as long as the quality of
> content they produce is high. I do object to funding random corporations
> whose interests are to their shareholders...
>
Sorry, I don't mind funding the BBC either, I think I get very good value
for money at the moment, it's worth it for Radio4 alone. What I object to is
paying twice, which is what would be happening if I paid a monthly
subscription to see the digital BBC channels that nobody actually wants[1].
I am annoyed that I am now paying for this digital stuff indirectly, and I
can't watch it. I'm going to go to the BBC website and gripe some more about
this :-)

/Robert

[1]troll

Re: Beginners Guide

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Dominic Mitchell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:49:09PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> > And there was me thinking that Chris was going to say that he doesn't
have
> > a TV either. But he didn't. I don't have a TV. But I'm currently camped
out
> > in my parents house, and they have 2. But I learn that they will both be
> > obsolete in 5 years when we all the analogue TV transmitters are turned
off.
> > Is that relevant? :-)
> Dunno, but I sure hope the digital packages get a bit better than the
> current offerings otherwise I'll just switch off the telly and not turn
> it on again...
> -Dom (resents paying once for the license fee and again for the
subscription)

Hmm. I too am pissed off about this digital stuff, as the quality is worse
than analogue TV. My measure of quality is uninterrupted viewing. I have yet
to watch any digital TV where at some point the picture didn't pixelate or
completely blank for a few seconds. I have an excellent Sony 100Hz TV, and
cannot fault the picture. Why are we being forced down this digital route?
Money I expect.

But if you get a digital TV/receiver, surely BBC is available for free
without any subscriptions. If this is not the case then I think it's
criminal.

/Robert
[thinking maybe he should have taken this to (void)]

Re: stocks

[Robert Shiels]

I use stocktrade.co.uk who are OK, it must have been easy to set up, as I
managed it.

I've known other people to use etrade.

Do you want to trade on foreign markets? If you do then you should check
that this is possible with whoever you go with.

Got any good tips :)
--
Robert


- Original Message -
From: "Greg McCarroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "London.pm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 11 April 2001 17:42
Subject: stocks


>
>
> Does anyone use any online brokers that they would recommend? I need
> a broker service which is quick and hassle free to set up.
>
>
> --
> Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
>
>

Re: Installing Perl/Tk on Win32

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Andrew Bowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> > From: Dean [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > If you don't really need to compile it yourself how's about:
> > ppm install Tk?
>
> Good idea - I can see PPM being useful if I have to persist with Win32
> stuff!
>
Also, if you have any firewall problems, or a fast link at work and a slow
dialup at home, go to:

http://www.activestate.com/PPMPackages/zips/6xx-builds-only/

where you can get the ppm files yourself and install them locally instead of
installing over the net.

hth

/robert

Re: Disclaimer

[Robert Shiels]

From: "dcross - David Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>
> You want the GPL for that. Which means that you can't use my copyright
> message as it includes the Artisitc License - which doesn't disallow your
> point 2.

I think therefore GPL will be good. People can sell my code, but as I will
be giving it away free, they will probably not get many customers :-)

Thanks.

/Robert

Re: Perl on HPUX

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hi All
> Question for the list, i'm currently writing some scripts for a HP box
> running HPUX 11 and i keep hitting the same error when ever i try and use

Last time I used the default perl on HP-UX, it turned out to be perl 4. You
may need a more recent distribution.

/Robert

Re: Disclaimer

[Robert Shiels]

From: "David Cantrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 10 April 2001 10:40
Subject: Re: Disclaimer


> On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 09:58:41AM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote:
>
> > Anything I release always has the following copyright and I think that a
> > number of module and script authors use a very similar form of words out
of
> > respect for Larry.
> >
> > Dave...
> >
> > Copyright (C) 2000, Magnum Solutions Ltd.  All Rights Reserved.
> >
> > This script is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
> > modify it under the same terms as Perl itself.
>
> It's also worth nothing that both the Artistic and GP licences include a
> disclaimer, so you're sorted for that too.

1. I want anything I write to be free for others to use and generally bugger
about with.
2. I don't want anyone to be allowed to sell my code, or to sell anything
closely derived from it.
3. I don't want to be sued by someone who hosed their machine while running
my software.

Will any of the artistic/GPL/BSD licences work here? Will yours Dave (Cross)
work, as I like that the best as it is so short :-)

/Robert

Re: Technical Meeting - 19th April

[Robert Shiels]

> >
> > > might be nice to have status reports from:
> > >
> > > * The t-shirt committee
> >
What is the design that you have agreed on? I will probably want one.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/things/321a.html is a fairly new addition I
think.

/Robert

Re: when are we going to see the caaaamels

[Robert Shiels]

Yes please, before our tickets run out

/Robert

From: "jo walsh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> can we go now that it is spring? some sunday afternoon soon?
> davorg? can we davorg?
> 
> z

Re: Perl MySQL TT DBI/DBD

[Robert Shiels]

>
>
> And what part of the Template Toolkit doesn't fulfil your
> requirements?
>
> ;-)
>



but, a major part of the requirements is actually building my skills all
these things. I may end up not using what I've written (though I doubt
that), but when I've finished I'd like to be able to knock up new things
reusing blocks of code I've already 'written' and understand.

/Robert

Perl MySQL TT DBI/DBD

[Robert Shiels]

I want to write a web-based app using the tools mentioned in the subject. I
want specifically to keep the db calls and presentation separate, something
I've not paid much attention to in the past.

Does anyone have, or know of, a good example of this; something small that I
can get working, and that has followed all the perl coding standards that we
have talked about in the past, so that I can start my app on a really good
footing.

Oh, and it must work on Win32 and Linux, without changing ANY code.

TIA
--
Robert
--

PS - it will be yet another application that helps organise digital
photographs, and will of course be available for anyone who wants it when
I've got it working.

Re: Social Meeting

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Natalie Ford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> At 11:27 29/03/01, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> >the one -ive point is that foods expensive there, if it had the
> >cheap food of PO it would be ideal - or even some decent pub
> >food (hot pies etc.)
>
> I haven't been to the Anchor but cheeep foood goood!
>
They had a special at the PO last time I was there; beer, burger + chips for
about 4 quid, and it was gd.

/Robert

Re: Perl Certification Drive

[Robert Shiels]

>
> I think the only way of making this feasible, then, is to distribute it
> across any company willing to participate. All it needs is for a company
to
> set a meeting room aside for a day, and provide a volunteer to administer
> the test. We should be able to get corporates to do this in exchange for
the
> publicity and goodwill, and a small admin fee payed by each candidate
> (fiver?).
>
I think the money aspect is very important. This isn't YAS, it's supposed to
be a professional qualification for professional programmers. £300 sounds
like a good number for me. "If it only costs a fiver then what good can it
be" will be the PHB's attitude, I've seen this often.

I used to work in a team writing a specialist accounting package. We charged
1000gbp. A competitor was charging 20,000gbp. We were losing business to
them so put the price up to 15,000gbp which included 3 days consultancy to
help install and configure it, and we got more business.


/Robert

Re: Social Meeting

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 29 March 2001 09:13
Subject: Social Meeting


>
> OK. Bowing to pressure from the heretics - we'll go to the Anchor next
> Thursday. Never let it be said that I don't listen to the little
> people :)
>
So I go home at 7pm, and when I get to work at 9am the question has been
asked and the decision has been made.

/Robert, sulking

PS - Since when have messers McCarroll & Cantrell been little people :)

Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

[Robert Shiels]

> I think a lot of this will be about signing up to a charter or code
> of conduct. What we will need is an actual exam, i was thinking about
> this last night, and my thoughts were to write a web interface were
> certified certifiers could request 10 tests, by filling the names
> of the recipients in first. Then a script would select questions
> from a database of categorised questions and make up a PDF seperately
> for each of the recipients, the certifier would then supervise
> the recipient completing the test in the allotted time and afterwards
> they would mark it and return it (original hardcopy) to the main body.
> This main body may check one or two, more to ensure that their
> is consistency across certifiers, and assuming that the tests
> were all fine, the certifier would get a nice shiny PDF for each
> of the recipients of the test.
>

As TIMTOWTDI in Perl, marking could be extremely difficult unless we have
multiple choice questions. Is MSCS multiple choice? SAP is.

/Robert

Re: Job: I'm looking for one..

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Greg McCarroll" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 28 March 2001 20:58
Subject: Re: Job: I'm looking for one..


> * Simon Cozens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 28, 2001 at 08:47:03PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> > > I suggest (with Dave Cross' blessing), that we
> > > form the London.pm certification. NetThink and Iterative will
> > > sign up to teach to a given level of skills (or several levels).
> >
> > Fuck it. Let's do it.
>
> Well as a fairly independent person in this matter, i will volunteer
> to coordinate this. Unless there are any objections - i already
> have a reasonable plan og how to achieve this _quickly_. I can
> take it from Simon's email that NetThink believe this to be a good
> idea, if others can reply _on list_ we can get a good sense
> of commitment, i think i identified some parties in the previous
> email.

I too think it's a good idea, if only because I could probably persuade my
company to give me a few days off to revise for an exam :-)

Have you thought about charging structures, SAP charge about 300gbp to take
a certification exam, and they offer courses that are specifically designed
to help you pass, which culminate in taking the exam itself. And if you are
collecting money and giving out qualifications, have you decided what
company should be doing it. And you'll need some way to say that the
certifiers are certified to do this anyway, otherwise the certification
won't be worth much.

Just thoughts...

/Robert

Re: Social Meeting (fwd)

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 28 March 2001 22:12
Subject: Re: Social Meeting (fwd)


> At 18:52 28/03/2001, you wrote:
> >Ok, I'm useless, but I've just been to talk to the Cittie, and
> >they say they're booked out next Thursday.
>
> OK. Looks like it's back to the PO next Thursday then people.
>
> Dave...

Yea. I have few routines in my life, but this is one I enjoy. And the
food's affordable there too.

/Robert

Re: ISO8601 [was] Re: Pointless, Badly-Written Module.

[Robert Shiels]

>
> That's right. And all of those changes have happened in the last 10
> (12? I'm guessing here) years.
>
> And each time we've been told that the changes will cope with the
> demand for phone numbers for many years. Which has been a lie.
>
It's fun (well, that's maybe too strong a word) to look at shops and vans
around London to see how diligent businesses have been at keeping up-to-date
on the telephone code changing.


/Robert

Re: mmm ... toys ..

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Chris Devers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> At 10:15 AM 27.3.2001 +0100, Robert Sheils wrote:
> >I have an original bondi-blue iMac, running MACOS9 at the moment, with
> >32Mb RAM. I was in an Apple shop at the weekend and found that a 128Mb
> >upgrade and OSX will only set me back about 200gbp. I was assured that
> >all my OS9 applications will still work (my wife uses Clarisworks for WP,
> >and the kids play their games), does anyone know if this is the case.
>
> I've got about the same setup, but with 64 mb. It's really slow for me,
though not as bad as the public beta was. Running it with 128 or more would
definitely be adviseable.
>
Thanks for everyone's advice on this, as an inveterate bit-fiddler, I will
probably go for the whole package just so I can play with everything. My
family can just boot it into OS9 for their stuff.

One more thing, is my 4Gb drive enough...

/Robert

Re: Not Matt's Scripts

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Robin Houston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 27 March 2001 14:59


> On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 02:08:11PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote:
> > 2) How do I get strftime to produce th/st/nd for the date?  I can't see
it
> > on man strftime, but I might just be going blind.
>
> use POSIX 'strftime';
> my @th=(qw(th st nd rd),("th")x16)x2; $th[31]="st";
>
> my @time=localtime;
> print strftime("%e$th[$time[3]] %b %Y\n", @time);
>

%e seems to be Linux specific. %d works on both Linux and Windows.

/Robert, possibly making his first perl contribution to the list!

Re: white wine

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> >I don't want to sound like a twat, but it may be too late already so here
> >goes, one of the things i hate about going out to a italian restaurant
> >is the wine.
>
> Nonsense. You just order the most expensive Barolo on the wine list.

mmm Barolo


> Dave...
> [Who doesn't understand this fascination with white wine - nasty stuff]
I'm with you there...

/Robert

Re: mmm ... toys ..

[Robert Shiels]

- Original Message -
From: "James Powell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 27 March 2001 09:41
Subject: Re: mmm ... toys ..


> Alternatively if anyone has one of the titanium macs going spare?
>
I have an original bondi-blue iMac, running MACOS9 at the moment, with 32Mb
RAM. I was in an Apple shop at the weekend and found that a 128Mb upgrade
and OSX will only set me back about 200gbp. I was assured that all my OS9
applications will still work (my wife uses Clarisworks for WP, and the kids
play their games), does anyone know if this is the case.

And also, will I be able to install perl,apache,mysql and other *nix
goodness on it too - I've never gotten to grips with macperl really.

/Robert

Re: upgrade fund

[Robert Shiels]

> On Mon, Mar 26, 2001 at 09:25:46AM +0100, Robert Shiels wrote:
> >
> > [buying a hard disk]
> >
> > Yes - RAM is sooo cheap at the moment - get loads!
>
> Anyone know of any good sources of cheap, BIG hard disks atm?  Like in the
> 70 to 100Gb range, IDE?  Speed not an issue, reliability is as these are
> for my server.  I need^Wwant six, and would rather not pay the 250-odd
quid
> per drive that is advertised all over the place.

Went to the computer fair on TCR on Saturday - 40Gb was 95gbp (Quantum
Fireball 5400 9.5ms). There weren't any bigger disks there though...

/Robert

Re: upgrade fund

[Robert Shiels]

>i'd like to do it via dabs.com, because their interface is useable and
>i've not personally had any problems with them.  i'll pick only in-stock
>stuff because i understand that they can be slacker than they advertise
>when it comes to re-stocking.  jo would hopefully oversee the process so i
>don't end up ordering bananas by mistake.


I ordered a HD from dabs.com last Thursday, the interface said they had 76
in stock. After registering, paying and completing the order, suddenly all
the stock had vanished. It's now Monday and they are still awaiting stock.
This could be an isolated case I suppose...but I've bought one from a
computer fair now and have cancelled the order.

Yes - RAM is sooo cheap at the moment - get loads!

/Robert

Re: script archive naming

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Robin Houston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 23 March 2001 17:51
Subject: script archive naming

> 
> Your search - "london script archive" - did not match any documents.
> 
>  .robin.
> 

so how about londonscripts.com/org then

/Robert

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Robin Szemeti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 22 March 2001 12:03
Subject: Re: Perl Training Courses


> On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, you wrote:
>
> > > The most effective debugging tool is still careful thought, coupled
with
> > > judiciously placed print statements. -Kernighan, 1978
> > >
> > Still my debugger of choice for most languages, my code is littered with
> > commented debug print statements.
>
> well .. yes .. and no ;)) ...
>
> around 70% of the time print is all you need. and 100% of the time it is
> perfectly possible with nothing else. But debugging tools can be very
> very good ..

Most of my programming is in ABAP, a proprietary language for SAP. It has
quite a cool debugger actually, and you can jump into it at any time and
look at code, set breakpoints and watchpoints, query tables and variables,
change variables values etc. The interface is crap, and ancient, but it
works.

It is in fact vitally important, as a lot of the code I need to debug cannot
be changed in the QA system where I'm debugging, and some of it can't
actually be changed at all [1]

/Robert

[1]slight simplifiction, but pretty much true, if there are any other SAP
people here :-)

Re: Perl Training Courses

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Simon Cozens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 22 March 2001 10:33
Subject: Re: Perl Training Courses


> On Wed, Mar 21, 2001 at 06:41:07PM +, Dave Cross wrote:
> > You have a decent Perl debugger. It's called perl -d.
>
> The most effective debugging tool is still careful thought, coupled with
> judiciously placed print statements. -Kernighan, 1978
>
Still my debugger of choice for most languages, my code is littered with
commented debug print statements.

/Robert

Re: Matt's Scripts Projects

[Robert Shiels]

> On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, David Cantrell wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 05:48:25PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
> > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 05:38:09PM +, David Cantrell wrote:
> > > > Then they deserve to be hurt.  Really.  We can't possibly support
> > > > dribbling idiots, and frankly, I have no wish to do so.  If someone
is
> > > > scared by a .tar.gz extension then they have no business installing
> > > > software.  Even if just for their own use.
> > >
> > > I thought one of the goals of this project was to support "dribbling
> > > idiots"?
> >
> > Idiots maybe, but not those who are sooo lacking in necessary skills
that
> > they are scared by gzipped tarballs.  Don't forget, these morons are
> > going to have to know how to get the files to their server, do the
> > appropriate chmodding, tweak config variables in the script - if you're
> > clueless enough to be scared off by .tar.gz then you're guaranteed to
> > fail anyway.

Seems to me you don't really understand windows very well :-)

ws-ftp/ ftp explorer - drag and drop files onto your server

chmod - who needs that, the directory is executable already, all files are
too.

tweak config files - notepad will allow the user to either add or remove a #
from the appropriate lines in the file - these will be marked.

.tar.gz - wtf is that, why isn't there a zip file.

People keep misunderstanding this point: just because someone is using
windows/mac doesn't make them a moron. They may well be, but I know quite a
few unix morons too. It is a different skillset.

If a Mac user is trying to set up some perl scripts on a windows machine, he
may well have had no exposure to .tar.gz files (hqx, sit, zip, pak, arc
maybe). Files should be available in the format that is most commonly used
for the OS.



/Robert

BTW - I've just had some fun trying to uncompress a .zip file on Linux!  tar
gzip and gunzip don't seem to want to know. Guess that makes me a luser!

Re: Matt's Scripts Projects

[Robert Shiels]

> - Original Message -
> From: "Jonathan Stowe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Dave Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> > > * Bundling. Need to build gzipped tarballs of our new versions (I
> > guess
> > > this should be built on top of the CVS stuff). Matt makes pkzipped
> > > versions avaiable as well - so should we.
>
> Winzip (what most windows users these days use to unzip) handlers tar.gz
by
> default so that may not be neccesary.

If all the files are created in unix, they may well not have \n\r at the end
of the lines, which make them a bugger to edit in notepad (wordpad and even
edit handle them OK though.) So I think the archive should have windows
versions of the text files that work in notepad.

/Robert

Re: Matt's Scripts Projects

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Simon Wilcox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 19 March 2001 13:34
Subject: Re: Matt's Scripts Projects


> At 13:18 19/03/2001 +, Mark Fowler wrote:
> >On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Simon Wilcox wrote:
> >
> > > >  b) That is should have a name that appeals to newbies.
> > >
> > > How about EasyScripts ? the domain name is available, anyway.
> >
> >Not very perl, but I like it.  Something similar though.
> 
> EasyPerlScripts or even EZPerlScripts (for the American audience :) ?
> 
EZPS, pronounced Easy Peas :-)

/Robert 

Re: Matt's Scripts

[Robert Shiels]

Subject: Re: Matt's Scripts


> > > is there an idiot-proof graphical front-end for scp? windows?
> > 
> > On Windows I use pscp which comes from the same people as putty. It
> > works well, but it doesn't have a pretty graphical front-end.
> 
> Yes there is.  http://www.i-tree.org/ixplorer.htm. 
> 
> I suggest you peeps read http://www.openssh.org/windows.html which lists
> alternatives

FYI

I've found a site that looks pretty useful, and the following link

http://www.cotse.com/secureftp.htm

gave me a nice overview, with links, on the secure ftp topic.

/Robert

Mailing list details

[Robert Shiels]

I was looking for the mailing list subscription details on our london.pm.org
website, and thought they were a bit hidden down on the "what we've done"
page. I think they should probably be more prominent, probably on the home
page. Or are we trying to maintain our exclusivity :-)

--
Robert
--
 desmondbagley.com
 "Congratulations: desmondbagley.com is available for you.
  Please fill the form below."

Re: Matt's Scripts

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 13 March 2001 15:47
Subject: Re: Matt's Scripts


> At 14:23 13/03/2001, you wrote:
> >Dave Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
>
> Oops. I just did the Random Text one. Should have put my name down really
I
> suppose. Here it is if you're interested.
>
This works on my win32 box, and is more random than Matts, and required one
less line change for me.

1 down !

I'll do some more testing if you want, I'm quite good at breaking things
.

I have access to Linux (apache), WinME/98 (apache/PWS), WinNT(IIS) and
Mac(Mac!) boxes.

/Robert

Re: Strange Request

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


>
> You need to define a standard and stick to it. I suggest we write to Perl
> 5.004_04 as it was a) pretty stable and b) the first to include CGI.pm.
>
Agreed. I just installed one of his scripts on my laptop, Win98, Apache
1.3.9, ActiveState's Perl5.6. There were comments in the code to make it run
OK on Win32 and I had it working in no time.

/Robert

Re: Strange Request

[Robert Shiels]

- Original Message -
From: "Dave Hodgkinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 13 March 2001 12:49
Subject: Re: Strange Request


> Dave Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I think this is a good idea and would be happy to get involved. What I'd
> > like to see is a series of "drop in" replacements for Matt's scripts.
There
> > are  15 scripts on Matt's site. How long would it take us to
> > rewrite them all?
>
> I've done his "random text CGI" thingy as a mod_perl/TT drop-in.

I haven't looked at Matts scripts, but I get the feeling that they are aimed
at beginners who have a fairly standard perl/apache installation[1]. I'm
sure your solution will be much better, but I don't think it would be a
replacement for Matt's if the users can't run it...

/Robert

[1]please ignore me if this isn't the case :)

Re: DJ jabbers on the O'Reilly Network

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Jon Eyre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 13 March 2001 10:14
> On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Michael Stevens wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Mar 12, 2001 at 10:18:53PM +, Dave Cross wrote:
> > > You _do_ realise that I've now put the trademark notice on all of the
> > > london.pm web pages :)
> >
> > Anyone know if we could ACTUALLY trademark this?
>
> ---
> To be registrable a trade mark must be:
>

and it must be paid for!

http://www.patent.gov.uk/tm/howtoapply/index.htm
It costs £200 (pounds sterling) to apply to register a trade mark in one
class of goods/services, and £50 (pounds sterling) for each additional
class. Please remember that this fee is not refundable if the mark turns out
not to be registrable for any reason - it covers the cost of examination of
an application as well as other administrative costs. Please make cheques
payable to "The Patent Office".

/Robert

DJ jabbers on the O'Reilly Network

[Robert Shiels]

http://www.oreillynet.com/

DJ Adams,  yet another famous London Perl Monger!

With a photo as well no less.

Well done DJ.

-- 
Robert

Re: Amazon (was: RE: DMP Availability)

[Robert Shiels]

- Original Message -
From: "dcross - David Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 22 February 2001 12:06
Subject: Amazon (was: RE: DMP Availability)

>
> Since I gave up Amazon, I've found myself going into bookshops more.
> Browsing in a bookshop is still _by far_ the best way to buy books.
>
Yes - I agree, but I can only get to bookshops at weekends, and sometimes if
I'm busy doing other stuff it may be 2 or 3 weeks between visits. And, for
example, this book I'm looking for is not available in Windsor or Slough
(though I've noticed over the years that the computing sections are getting
much bigger and better), so I'm forced to go up to That London. So online
purchases that arrive at my door the next day are very attractive.

Sometimes I'll browse in bookshops for a whole afternoon, and then I think I
should perhaps have spent the time actually reading!

/Robert

Re: DMP Availability

[Robert Shiels]

>
> I don't know what disturbs me more - my books being sold by Amazon or my
> books
> being bought by III :)
>
> Dave...

I want to buy a book "Code" by Charles Petzold.

streetsonline - not available
whsmith 12.45 + 2.74 = 15.19 delivery 1-2 weeks
bol.com 12.59 + 2.95 = 15.54 delivery 3-7 days
pcbooks 13.99 + 3.50 = 17.49 next day delivery
amazon 11.13 + 2.75 = 13.88 dispatched within 24 hours

And the Amazon website has a good review of the book, and several comments
by other people who have bought it, whereas the other sites have no details
at all. No one I've found matches Amazon's service and price for books, if
the others want to compete online they are going to have to do much better.

I boycotted Amazon for a while, and stopped being an Associate, but found I
was buying less books because they were too expensive and hard to get. So I
guess I'm back to them again now.

/Robert

Re: Penderel Configuration

[Robert Shiels]

From: "jo walsh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 15 February 2001 15:56
Subject: RE: Penderel Configuration


>
> > > I'd like to be able to have a http://london.pm.org/~shiels
> > > web address, and
> > > a cgi-bin directory.
>
> k i can do the ~/public_html thing and sort this out is that the best way?
> or there is a group of web users who can write to the docroot if you
> prefer (both?)
>
The ~/public_html is what I had in mind, this should be fairly easy to turn
on in httpd.conf, although when I looked it seemed like it was already
configured, but I couldn't get mine to work. As we're using the .pm.org
domain I think the docroot should be pretty restricted.

> > > I would like to have (at least) one mysql database to play with.
>
> mysql is installed and should be running, i spose anyone who wants their
> own database should email me or alex about it
Will do!

> > Why don't we just install all of CPAN to begin with? We are a pm group
no?
>
> this is a good idea.
We have enough disk space (just !), so I agree totally. I expect there is
even a way to keep this up-to-date automatically. I would find this really
great as a major hindrance to me trying out scripts I 'find' is usually that
I can't be bothered installing the 1/2 dozen or so modules that need to be
installed first.

--
/Robert

Re: Penderel Configuration

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Jonathan Stowe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 15 February 2001 15:40
Subject: Re: Penderel Configuration


> On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Robert Shiels wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to know which perl modules are already installed.
> >
>
> I think Meestah Cross has written something that does this, as have I and
> I think that Tom Phoenix has released Inside now which is a properly
> implemented way of doing same (I beta tested it for him and it worked
> then).
>
Cool - perhaps we could have the output of one of these sent to the website
automatically every night...

--
/Robert

Penderel Configuration

[Robert Shiels]

Is this a suitable place to talk about our server? I guess we should have a
separate mailing list for it eventually 

I was just wondering if we could make a list of things that have been
installed and services that are available. I would be willing to start a FAQ
and wish list if someone else isn't doing it already.

To start:

I'd like to be able to have a http://london.pm.org/~shiels web address, and
a cgi-bin directory.

I would like to have (at least) one mysql database to play with.

I'd like to know which perl modules are already installed.

I doesn't make sense for us all to install things in our individual user
areas if we can share them instead.

There may of course be valid objections to doing some of the above, but it'd
be good if we had a dos and don'ts list in that case.

Thoughts?

--
Robert

bbspot article

[Robert Shiels]

Student Suspended Over Suspected Use of PHP

http://www.bbspot.com/News/2000/6/php_suspend.html

The last paragraph is amusing, and, surprisingly for me, nearly on-topic.

-- 
Robert

Re: Last Night

[Robert Shiels]

From: "Paul Makepeace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> It's cool because you end up sitting on the big table and
> meeting other people by 'accidently' lashing them with noodles.
>
> Paul (why should only children get to play with food?)

I think it's a case of knowing what to expect. If you expect quick, very
cheap food, that tastes OK then you are fine. If you want a romantic dinner
for 2, forget it and go to any of the other places 2 minutes walk away.
I've been there loads of times and a lot of the enjoyment comes from
watching the faces of the uninitiated as they realise they have definitely
come to the wrong place.

Paul, why are you up at 4 in the morning ?

/Robert

Re: Last Night

[Robert Shiels]

> 
> I liked it because it only took 20 mins to get home :)
> 
It took me 3 hours to get home :-(

/Robert 

Re: Perl Books

[Robert Shiels]

>However, I don't question the plumber's competence, or indeed pretend to
>anyone including myself that I can do a good job of it.  The same should
>apply to programming.  If I were to try my hand at re-plumbing my kitchen,
> know I'd make a god-awful mess, and I am intelligent enough to not
>attempt it.  The great unwashed should approach programming the same way.

When everyone has permanent net connections, and their network is open to
the world, and they do a bit of configuration/programming that opens up
their system to crackers who have a bit of a play turning off their alarm
system and opening the electronic garage door etc

then

will they call in a real professional to fix it.

This is analogous to me drilling several holes in my wall to try and put up
a curtain rail, making a complete mess of it, and calling in someone from
the yellow pages who did it in 10 minutes and charged me £30, which is what
I should have done in the first place.

or will they just install Microsoft SafeHouse(TM) which will do it all for
them

There is definitely money to be made in this area by someone!

/Robert

Re: Amazon Sales Rank

[Robert Shiels]

> On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 01:56:24PM +, Paul Mison wrote:
> > Didn't the case of 'A Fist In the Bush' prove that Amazon's "Sales"
> > rankings are actually down to how many people look at things?
>
> Wasn't that more to do with the "people who like like also like *this*"
> rankings that the actual sales ranks, which they claim are actually
> based on sales, and not even on who's paid them most?
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201615711/ref=sim_books/107-8558793-
5982946

gives Lincoln Steins rank as 11.

What does this mean then, it's hardly going to be the 11th most popular book
on Amazon, maybe it's the 11th most popular Perl book. How would you feel
being number 760 in that list Dave :-)

/Robert

Re: website directory access

[Robert Shiels]

> >
> > I don't really like this, is there another way? I don't want to have to
> > resort to .htpasswd files, which is what I've implemented for now.
>
> er, what's wrong with them?
>
Well, publishing username/passwords to everyone who needs them is trickey,
and getting people to remember them is also hard.

For example, I took family photos, I want the whole family to look at them,
and anyone else who they give the link to, but my mum has enough trouble
connecting to the internet without remembering new usernames and passwords.

/Robert

Re: Perl Books

[Robert Shiels]

From: "James Powell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> Totally unrelated, I wish they'd open a PC Bookshop in Farringdon.
> 
Don't be so lazy :)

You can walk to Holborn in under 15 minutes.

/Robert

website directory access

[Robert Shiels]

I'm trying to stop people buggering about on my website and looking in
directories they shouldn't be, this includes several robots that have
started trawling through it.

I have family pictures, and work related pictures. I want each group to only
look at their own images (for example I don't want my family looking at the
pictures of pissed-up perlmongers (not that I'm ashamed of you or anything
:-)

So I guess I have to make directories, and only tell people who need to know
that they are there, and not link to them from any other publicly available
page.

I don't really like this, is there another way? I don't want to have to
resort to .htpasswd files, which is what I've implemented for now.

/Robert, realising that he doesn't know very much about web security
actually

Re: Perl Books

[Robert Shiels]

>
> > Also L Steins Network Programming with Perl is a good book. I'm only a
> > chunk into it buts its a good read on its own and an even better one
> > if your not from a Unix background.
>
> Yup, it's a bloody impressive book.
>
> Nat
>
Just had a look at the PC Bookshops website (www.pcbooks.co.uk). Didn't they
used to have a way of finding out whether the book was actually on the shelf
or not - I may drop in there today on my way south of the river (Oh, the
shame) and wanted to plan my potential purchase.

/Robert

Re: Perl Books

[Robert Shiels]

> On Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 02:32:21PM +, Struan Donald wrote:
> >
> > er... this unweldy thing would seem to be it:
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/4045/107-2581489-8245353

Looks like the 2nd edition of the camel book is smaller and more expensive
than the 3rd. What a bargain!

/Robert

Re: Passwords

[Robert Shiels]

> > My question is, Why is automatic password expiry a good idea?
> > It's a pain, and encourages bad password management. I'll probably log
onto
> > each system every 60 days and set them all to the same one.
>
> Not that I necessarily agree with what this says, it's definately
interesting
> and worth thinking about:
>
> Security and Human Factors
> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001126.html
>

Seems to agree with me, I like him already :-)

Basically a lot of password restrictions sound like a good idea in theory,
but when real people have to cope with them they fail miserably.

/Robert

Passwords

[Robert Shiels]

I just wanted to ask a brief question about passwords.

I have access to about 10 SAP systems in my work at the moment, and all of
them require a password, and these passwords all expire after 60 days. This
will happen at random times depending on when I actually try to logon. So  I
have the potential of having 10 different passwords. And I get locked out of
the system after 3 bad password tries (as sysadmin I can unlock myself, but
it's a pain, and also as sysadmin, I need to unlock other people all the
time).

My question is, Why is automatic password expiry a good idea?

It's a pain, and encourages bad password management. I'll probably log onto
each system every 60 days and set them all to the same one.

/Robert

Re: LAMP Stuff

[Robert Shiels]

>
> 
>
> Dave...
>

/me wonders if Dave's article on the main page is at all relevant to this
thread :-)

/Robert

Re: Video Tips

[Robert Shiels]

Staying resolutely on-topic [1], I've started watching my "League of
Gentlemen" first series DVD.

This is a very good DVD indeed, with an second audio track by the cast
talking about why they did everything.

The DVD starts with a question "Are you Local ?"

If you click "No" it switches off :)

--
Robert

[1] Not!

> Dave Cross wrote:
> >
> > Here's a top tip. Don't try to video two hours of programs on an hour
and a
> > half of video tape.
> >

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

[Robert Shiels]

>
> s /some dodgy PC desktop with Redhat stuck on it by a hobbyist who has
> never used another UNIX/inexperienced/;
>
> Lets not compare inexperience with anyparticular flavour of *nix.
>
> Greg
>
> Who started on Redhat along time ago, and has since used and initially
> disliked Solaris/Sun OS, but has since softened as is happy to work on
> any *nix.
>
I have used Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, IRIX, Linux, OSF/1 and from the point of
general administration (setting up users, printers, changing kernel
parameters, monitoring processes, creating filesystems, mounting volumes,
etc) can find no real difference between them. They all have their minor
quirks, and you need to bugger about in the man pages to find the right
switches sometimes, and sometimes you type smit, others sam or linuxconf or
somesuch.

A PC hobbyist however will probably be less experienced in most of the tasks
above. They will not generally have multiple volumes/printers/users and
won't have to cope with the demand on resources that this creates.

Sorry, what was my point going to be again...

/Robert