Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> > fmiser wrote:
> > 
> > Just high RPM isn't enough, so running the engine against the
> > governor in a low gear isn't effective.  It is the heat caused
> > by max power and high RPM that clears junk out.

> Gerry wrote:
>
> Well, guess I'll have to wait until a trip to Georgia or beyond
> since we don't have any hills to speak of here in Florida. The
> only way I can think of to do what you suggest would be to pull
> a heavy loaded trailer at high speed on Floridas flat roads.

I have considered an aerodynamic load would be best.  Something
like a sailboat with the sail set athwart.  The faster the car
goes, the "heavier" the load - but without the weight.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

yeah, If ya think FlahDuh is flat, head west from Winnipeg!


tyee165 via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 5:22 PM
The closest good hill is probably 75 miles from home. I have done the 
hard run uphill and the temp gauge sure does climb




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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

The closest good hill is probably 75 miles from home. I have done the hard run 
uphill and the temp gauge sure does climb


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Curley McLain via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-12-30  2:44 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel 
= higher EGT, but within the limit.   My old Bosch guy said every Diesel 
should have an EGT gauge.  I looked into the price and having to get a 
nub welded on the down pipe 40 yrs ago and the finances voted against 
the EGT gauge.

> fmiser via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> December 30, 2017 at 1:26 PM tbe ha
>> archer75--- wrote:rd ru
>
>> My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get
>> driven much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and
>> shakes the engine at idle in any kind of weather.
>
>> I vaguely recall that carbon buildup isq supposed to be the
>> cause and the cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the
>> engine temp topping out.
>
> Not lug!  Lugging is high load, low RPM.  That is not good for any
> engine.  What you want to clean out the engine is high cylinder
> temperatures.  So high load, high rpm, full fuel.  There are a
> couple hills around here that are big enough and long enough and I
> try to "treat" the engine every time I climb them.  The turbos
> need a bigger hill to do it well.
>
> Just high RPM isn't enough, so running the engine against the
> governor in a low gear isn't effective.  It is the heat caused by
> max power and high RPM that clears junk out.
>
>

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 30, 2017 at 5:16 PM archer75--- via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>  SIL has a Grady White offshore boat that probably weighs that much or more.
> Gerry


There ya go. An offshore sportfisher is as good as a parachute. 
Set the cruise for 80mph, turn on the A/C and watch the temperature gauge.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

 
> In Florida there's no such thing as a big hill, so you hitch up a 2,000lb 
> boat trailer and do a few 0-70 runs. 
> Mitch.
> ___
That's an idea. SIL has a Grady White offshore boat that probably weighs that 
much or more.
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

No cooking oil.  A tank of B80 to B100 will clean out the fuel system 
for sure.  It will probably help with the carbon in the cyl.

A steady diet of B20 is nice if you can find a source.
I ran some cars on B100 when I had some available.  No problems if you 
have compatible fuel lines.




archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 3:54 PM
Max Dillon wrote:

Gerry,
Time for a Liqui-Moly diesel purge treatment?


G: I'll try that. I've also heard that a tank, or partial tank, of refined 
cooking oil will clean out diesel engines?


A good start would be getting the injectors tested, and if they are good then 
rebuild the delivery valves with fresh copper seals.  Inspect the delivery 
valves, they do wear at the seat where the plunger seals.  If that seat looks 
rough, you can try polishing with jewellers rouge or just get a new delivery 
valve.


G: It's been a long time since I've done anything to the 300D engine, so I'll 
check out all those possibilities if the Liqui-Molly doesn't help.
I've also heard that a tank of biodiesel will clean the carbon out of a diesel 
engine?


A proper Italian tuneup is performed at high engine speed with high load.
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300


Yep, I was wrong about that. Thanks.

Gerry

On December 30, 2017 7:17:21 AM EST, archer75--- via 
Mercedes  wrote:

My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven
much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine
at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been
meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I
vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the
cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping
out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run
better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.
Gerry

Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  wrote:

Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo)

this a.m. for its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps
were low teens overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it.
Battery minder (usually on) was disconnected before start attempt.
Engine had not run in weeks and probably only drove 50 miles in last
year.  I haven't been driving the car because I need to replace the
flex disks (procrastinate, procrastinate).

The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at

idle although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration.
After driving about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just
slight diesel shake).

Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold?

Hard engine mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky
injector that wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake
was more violent than my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).

Any thoughts?


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Max Dillon via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 7:50 AM
Gerry,

Time for a Liqui-Moly diesel purge treatment?

A good start would be getting the injectors tested, and if they are 
good then rebuild the delivery valves with fresh copper seals. Inspect 
the delivery valves, they do wear at the seat where the plunger seals. 
If that seat looks rough, you can try polishing with jewellers rouge 
or just get a new delivery valve.


A proper Italian tuneup is performed at high engine speed with high load.
archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 6:17 AM
My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven 
much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine 
at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been 
meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I 
vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the 
cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping 
out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run 
better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.

Gerry


Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 

Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Max Dillon wrote:
> Gerry,
> Time for a Liqui-Moly diesel purge treatment?

G: I'll try that. I've also heard that a tank, or partial tank, of refined 
cooking oil will clean out diesel engines?
 
> A good start would be getting the injectors tested, and if they are good then 
> rebuild the delivery valves with fresh copper seals.  Inspect the delivery 
> valves, they do wear at the seat where the plunger seals.  If that seat looks 
> rough, you can try polishing with jewellers rouge or just get a new delivery 
> valve.

G: It's been a long time since I've done anything to the 300D engine, so I'll 
check out all those possibilities if the Liqui-Molly doesn't help. 
I've also heard that a tank of biodiesel will clean the carbon out of a diesel 
engine?
 
> A proper Italian tuneup is performed at high engine speed with high load.
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300

Yep, I was wrong about that. Thanks.

Gerry
> 
> On December 30, 2017 7:17:21 AM EST, archer75--- via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> >My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven
> >much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine
> >at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been
> >meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I
> >vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the
> >cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping
> >out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run
> >better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.
> >Gerry
> >
> >Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  wrote:
> >> Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo)
> >this a.m. for its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps
> >were low teens overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it. 
> >Battery minder (usually on) was disconnected before start attempt. 
> >Engine had not run in weeks and probably only drove 50 miles in last
> >year.  I haven't been driving the car because I need to replace the
> >flex disks (procrastinate, procrastinate).
> >> The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at
> >idle although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration. 
> >After driving about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just
> >slight diesel shake).
> >> Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold? 
> >Hard engine mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky
> >injector that wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake
> >was more violent than my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).
> >> Any thoughts?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Gettin the 240D up to 90 should do it, even on a flat road!  ;)
What does that translate to on a 300D 123?  110?  120?

 just kidding.  I think redline is 82 mph.

It has been a joke since a state snooper gave #1 son a ticket for going 
86m MPH downhill in his 66 200D, with his mom in the passenger seat!


Methinks the radar was NOT properly calibrated!


archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 3:05 PM
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:26:38 -0600

Well, guess I'll have to wait until a trip to Georgia or beyond since 
we don't have any hills to speak of here in Florida.
The only way I can think of to do what you suggest would be to pull a 
heavy loaded trailer at high speed on Floridas flat roads.

Gerry



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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

There's more.  That was just making a list off the top of my head of the 
most likely candidates.I'd do the first two to four, then consider 
if any others are worthwhile or just put up with it.



archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 2:54 PM
Thanks. I'll check those possibilities and put in a new shock absorber.
Gerry
~


Curley McLain 
December 30, 2017 at 11:02 AM
Transmission mount?
Engine mount shock absorber(s)?
Glow plugs?
Air leaks?
Uneven compression?
Uneven valve adjustment?
Unbalanced injector nozzles?
IP problem?

I put a new engine shock on the 81 240D (it only has one) and that 
smoothed out the idle A BUNCH!





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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:26:38 -0600
fmiser via Mercedes  wrote:

> > archer75--- wrote:
> 
> > My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get
> > driven much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and
> > shakes the engine at idle in any kind of weather. 
> 
> > I vaguely recall that carbon buildup isq supposed to be the
> > cause and the cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the
> > engine temp topping out. 
> 
> Not lug!  Lugging is high load, low RPM.  That is not good for any
> engine.  What you want to clean out the engine is high cylinder
> temperatures.  So high load, high rpm, full fuel.  There are a
> couple hills around here that are big enough and long enough and I
> try to "treat" the engine every time I climb them.  The turbos
> need a bigger hill to do it well.
> 
> Just high RPM isn't enough, so running the engine against the
> governor in a low gear isn't effective.  It is the heat caused by
> max power and high RPM that clears junk out.
> 
> ___

Well, guess I'll have to wait until a trip to Georgia or beyond since we don't 
have any hills to speak of here in Florida.
The only way I can think of to do what you suggest would be to pull a heavy 
loaded trailer at high speed on Floridas flat roads.
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Thanks. I'll check those possibilities and put in a new shock absorber.
Gerry
~
Curley McLain via Mercedes  wrote:

> Transmission mount?
> Engine mount shock absorber(s)?
> Glow plugs?
> Air leaks?
> Uneven compression?
> Uneven valve adjustment?
> Unbalanced injector nozzles?
> IP problem?
> 
> I put a new engine shock on the 81 240D (it only has one) and that 
> smoothed out the idle A BUNCH!
> 
> 
> > archer75--- via Mercedes 
> > December 30, 2017 at 6:17 AM
> > My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven 
> > much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine 
> > at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been 
> > meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I 
> > vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the 
> > cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping 
> > out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run 
> > better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.
> > Gerry
> >
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

= higher EGT, but within the limit.   My old Bosch guy said every Diesel 
should have an EGT gauge.  I looked into the price and having to get a 
nub welded on the down pipe 40 yrs ago and the finances voted against 
the EGT gauge.



fmiser via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 1:26 PM

archer75--- wrote:



My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get
driven much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and
shakes the engine at idle in any kind of weather.



I vaguely recall that carbon buildup isq supposed to be the
cause and the cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the
engine temp topping out.


Not lug!  Lugging is high load, low RPM.  That is not good for any
engine.  What you want to clean out the engine is high cylinder
temperatures.  So high load, high rpm, full fuel.  There are a
couple hills around here that are big enough and long enough and I
try to "treat" the engine every time I climb them.  The turbos
need a bigger hill to do it well.

Just high RPM isn't enough, so running the engine against the
governor in a low gear isn't effective.  It is the heat caused by
max power and high RPM that clears junk out.




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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

In Florida there's no such thing as a big hill, so you hitch up a 2,000lb boat 
trailer and do a few 0-70 runs. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> archer75--- wrote:

> My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get
> driven much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and
> shakes the engine at idle in any kind of weather. 

> I vaguely recall that carbon buildup isq supposed to be the
> cause and the cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the
> engine temp topping out. 

Not lug!  Lugging is high load, low RPM.  That is not good for any
engine.  What you want to clean out the engine is high cylinder
temperatures.  So high load, high rpm, full fuel.  There are a
couple hills around here that are big enough and long enough and I
try to "treat" the engine every time I climb them.  The turbos
need a bigger hill to do it well.

Just high RPM isn't enough, so running the engine against the
governor in a low gear isn't effective.  It is the heat caused by
max power and high RPM that clears junk out.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Transmission mount?
Engine mount shock absorber(s)?
Glow plugs?
Air leaks?
Uneven compression?
Uneven valve adjustment?
Unbalanced injector nozzles?
IP problem?

I put a new engine shock on the 81 240D (it only has one) and that 
smoothed out the idle A BUNCH!




archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 30, 2017 at 6:17 AM
My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven 
much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine 
at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been 
meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I 
vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the 
cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping 
out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run 
better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.

Gerry



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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[tyee165 via Mercedes]

Dr Booth said drive it as soon as the oil pressure needle comes up.


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Curley McLain via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> Date: 2017-12-29  10:32 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Mercedes 
Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel 


> G Mann via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> December 29, 2017 at 10:18 PM
>
>
> *Early on diesel wisdom given to me was to always warm up the engine 
> before
> putting it under work load... *
And still Valid Advice today!  Along with always allowing a turbo engine 
at least 5 min idle cooldown from highway speeds or other heavy loading 
(= high exhaust gas temperatures) before shutting it down.  Both the 
warm up and the cool down together prevent head cracking.
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Gerry,

Time for a Liqui-Moly diesel purge treatment?

A good start would be getting the injectors tested, and if they are good then 
rebuild the delivery valves with fresh copper seals.  Inspect the delivery 
valves, they do wear at the seat where the plunger seals.  If that seat looks 
rough, you can try polishing with jewellers rouge or just get a new delivery 
valve.

A proper Italian tuneup is performed at high engine speed with high load.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 30, 2017 7:17:21 AM EST, archer75--- via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven
>much, does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine
>at idle in any kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been
>meaning to ask the group about that but always forgot to do so. I
>vaguely recall that carbon buildup is supposed to be the cause and the
>cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with the engine temp topping
>out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D engine run
>better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.
>Gerry
>
>Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  wrote:
>> Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo)
>this a.m. for its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps
>were low teens overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it. 
>Battery minder (usually on) was disconnected before start attempt. 
>Engine had not run in weeks and probably only drove 50 miles in last
>year.  I haven't been driving the car because I need to replace the
>flex disks (procrastinate, procrastinate).
>> The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at
>idle although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration. 
>After driving about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just
>slight diesel shake).
>> Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold? 
>Hard engine mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky
>injector that wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake
>was more violent than my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).
>> Any thoughts?
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

My '83 300D (same drivetrain as yours), which also doesn't get driven much, 
does the same thing. It sort of "hammers" and shakes the engine at idle in any 
kind of weather. There are new engine mounts. Been meaning to ask the group 
about that but always forgot to do so. I vaguely recall that carbon buildup is 
supposed to be the cause and the cure is to lug the engine up a long grade with 
the engine temp topping out. I do know that either that engine or the '83 240D 
engine run better after an 80 mph trip to Orlando and back.
Gerry

Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  wrote:
> Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo) this a.m. 
> for its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps were low teens 
> overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it.  Battery minder (usually 
> on) was disconnected before start attempt.  Engine had not run in weeks and 
> probably only drove 50 miles in last year.  I haven't been driving the car 
> because I need to replace the flex disks (procrastinate, procrastinate).
> The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at idle 
> although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration.  After driving 
> about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just slight diesel shake).
> Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold?  Hard engine 
> mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky injector that 
> wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake was more violent 
> than my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).
> Any thoughts?
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> Curley wrote:

> The OM621/61x starters are basically tractor
> or truck starters.  Very durable.

And the danger in long cranking is heat.  If the situation is
sub-freezing cold-start, heat is not much of an issue.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 20:18:26 -0800 G Mann via Mercedes
 wrote:

> *Early on diesel wisdom given to me was to always warm up the engine
> before putting it under work load... *

That's what the owner's manuals for our big trucks say, particularly
cautioning letting the oil warm up so the turbo(s) is (are) not spun
without lubrication.

But the big truck engines are direct injection and take a LONG time to
warm up!!!

We all on this list have been told that that is not advisable for indirect
injection diesels like our small, high-speed Mercedes engines. Instead,
the thought was that running with a light load after oil pressures were
normal would cause the engine to warm up more quickly and help to not
carbon up the prechambers.

Our '90 E300D/2.5 Turbo warms up in about 5 minutes from below freezing.
Sometimes our Peterbilt has taken 30+ minutes to get to the 135 deg.F.
the owner's manual says it should be before putting light loads on it.
I haven't paid much attention to the Kenworth, with the larger engine,
but I know it takes longer ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

G Mann via Mercedes 
December 29, 2017 at 10:18 PM


*Early on diesel wisdom given to me was to always warm up the engine 
before

putting it under work load... *
And still Valid Advice today!  Along with always allowing a turbo engine 
at least 5 min idle cooldown from highway speeds or other heavy loading 
(= high exhaust gas temperatures) before shutting it down.  Both the 
warm up and the cool down together prevent head cracking.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[G Mann via Mercedes]

Thought:
Uber cold engine, plus cold fuel, combine to slow down the combustion flame
path, so the fuel air charge which is ignited via compression heat
ignition, burns more slowly and less completely as it drives the piston
down.

Some of the fuel / air charge remains in the cylinder throughout the "power
stroke" and continues to burn during the exhaust stroke. Th*is prolonged
burn has the effect of altering the timing, so the engine is "running
against its self, thus runs poorly.*

*As engine temp rises... the combustion of fuel becomes more rapid, and
"timing" becomes "normal". thus engine runs as expected.*

*Early on diesel wisdom given to me was to always warm up the engine before
putting it under work load... *

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo) this
> a.m. for its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps were low
> teens overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it.  Battery minder
> (usually on) was disconnected before start attempt.  Engine had not run in
> weeks and probably only drove 50 miles in last year.  I haven't been
> driving the car because I need to replace the flex disks (procrastinate,
> procrastinate).
> The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at idle
> although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration.  After
> driving about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just slight
> diesel shake).
> Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold?  Hard
> engine mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky injector
> that wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake was more
> violent than my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).
> Any thoughts?
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Scott Ritchey via Mercedes]

Different start problem scenario:  I started my 82 SD (617 turbo) this a.m. for 
its annual trip to NC vehicle inspection station  Temps were low teens 
overnight and probably mid 20s when I started it.  Battery minder (usually on) 
was disconnected before start attempt.  Engine had not run in weeks and 
probably only drove 50 miles in last year.  I haven't been driving the car 
because I need to replace the flex disks (procrastinate, procrastinate).
The old engine started instantly but.. the whole car shook hard at idle 
although it smoothed out with just the slightest acceleration.  After driving 
about 10 miles the engine idle was almost normal (just slight diesel shake).
Why did it shake so bad at cold idle?   Any theories?  Too cold?  Hard engine 
mounts? Could the engine dampers be frozen?  Maybe a wonky injector that 
wouldn't seal, spray, or meter right at idle?  The shake was more violent than 
my earlier experience with bad glow plug(s).
Any thoughts?


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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

OOPs!  Missed a zero.  That is supposed to be 1000 to 1500 RPM.

Half pedal or full pedal won't make much difference.  On the pumps with 
a side plate, with the plate off, you can see the governor slams the 
rack to full fuel when you start to crank it.  First time I did that I 
about lost a finger trying to hold the rack open then the governor 
slammed the rack to full fuel



Jaime Kopchinski 
December 29, 2017 at 8:45 PM
I have some copies of the original dealer technical bulletins from 
MBNA.  The 1979 statement about cold starting has a lot of tidbids in 
it. But there is a hand written note that says "Engines with ignition 
key controlled preflow system (twlloe indicator lamp), keep foot off 
accelerator during cranking.  Accelerate after engine fires".  Which 
doesn't really make much sense, and actually contradicts the owners 
manual recommendation of keeping your foot to the floor while cranking.


I tend to keep the pedal pressed down about half way, but don't have 
any technical description of whats actually happening to suggest what 
the best method is., so I left it out of the article for now.  I'll 
have to research this a bit more.


Jaime




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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

I have some copies of the original dealer technical bulletins from MBNA.
The 1979 statement about cold starting has a lot of tidbids in it. But
there is a hand written note that says "Engines with ignition key
controlled preflow system (twlloe indicator lamp), keep foot off
accelerator during cranking.  Accelerate after engine fires".  Which
doesn't really make much sense, and actually contradicts the owners manual
recommendation of keeping your foot to the floor while cranking.

I tend to keep the pedal pressed down about half way, but don't have any
technical description of whats actually happening to suggest what the best
method is., so I left it out of the article for now.  I'll have to research
this a bit more.

Jaime


On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 9:33 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Under normal starting, floor it until the engine starts, then try to hold
> 100 to 1500 RPM until the engine is stable to idle.
>
> In a long cranking session, stay off the fuel until there are signs of
> life, then crack it as you suggest.
>
> Yes, in my 1962 190Dc manual it said you may crank it up to 60 seconds,
> then I think it was 2  minutes rest, then crank again up to 60 seconds.
> The OM621/61x starters are basically tractor or truck starters.  Very
> durable.
>
> archer75--- via Mercedes 
>> December 29, 2017 at 6:10 PM
>>
>> Very good!
>> I didn't know MB starters/batteries were built for such long cranking.
>>
>> One more question: How much fuel should the engine be given during a long
>> cranking session? I've found that just a little more fuel than the idle
>> amount seemed to work best using any procedure. Comment?
>> Gerry
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Under normal starting, floor it until the engine starts, then try to 
hold 100 to 1500 RPM until the engine is stable to idle.


In a long cranking session, stay off the fuel until there are signs of 
life, then crack it as you suggest.


Yes, in my 1962 190Dc manual it said you may crank it up to 60 seconds, 
then I think it was 2  minutes rest, then crank again up to 60 seconds.  
The OM621/61x starters are basically tractor or truck starters.  Very 
durable.



archer75--- via Mercedes 
December 29, 2017 at 6:10 PM

Very good!
I didn't know MB starters/batteries were built for such long cranking.

One more question: How much fuel should the engine be given during a 
long cranking session? I've found that just a little more fuel than 
the idle amount seemed to work best using any procedure. Comment?

Gerry


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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Gerry, the owner's manual specifies for cold start to hold the accelerator 
pedal to the floor and keep it there until after you release the key and the 
engine speed begins to increase, and then let up slowly so the engine doesn't 
die.  Remember the governor in the fuel pump will limit the fuel so you cannot 
"flood" the engine.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 29, 2017 7:10:09 PM EST, archer75--- via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Jaime Kopchinski wrote:
>
>> Tis the season for difficult starting, so I put this together
>yesterday:
>>
>http://www.jaimekop.com/2017/12/cold-starting-your-mercedes-diesel-facts-and-fiction/
>> Enjoy,
>> Jaime Kopchinski
>> http://www.jaimekop.com/
>> ___
>
>Very good!
>I didn't know MB starters/batteries were built for such long cranking.
>
>One more question: How much fuel should the engine be given during a
>long cranking session? I've found that just a little more fuel than the
>idle amount seemed to work best using any procedure. Comment?
>Gerry 
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Yes I have had bad fuel problems,at the,start of winter. I use,Diesel
Treat. My diesel-300CD is under cover for now.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Dec 29, 2017 8:41 PM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> I've apparently had some summer fuel foisted on me. I've been using a new
> place that only recently started carrying diesel. We picked up my car
> yesterday after getting a new front wheel bearing and it couldn't get out
> of it's own way. That was at about 0F, it started okay but had zero power.
> Fortunately we only had to limp a few miles home. I put some Power Service
> to it and let it run awhile. I didn't get a chance to try it today, I was
> out chasing Bambi's dad but Angie's car did the same thing Wednesday and
> was better after treatment so I'm expecting good results.One car I could
> have passed off as water, two with exactly the same problem is bad fuel...
> Curt
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>
>   On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   I never had any trouble down to 0 to
> -10.  BUT I was always careful to
> get winter fuel.  One time a truck stop foisted summer fuel on me
> without notice.  That caused problems because it was way cold.  Once I
> got enough kerosene mixed with it all was well, but since I had filled,
> I had to put in as much K as I could 3 times before it straightened out.
>
> Below, -10, everything has to be right.  Fuel, Glow, oil, IP, Nozzles,
> advance, timing, valve timing, valves...
> It is a good idea to plug in the block heater below 0.
>
> On an Iron head engine, if you set stuck in the way cold while
> traveling, you can use a propane torch to heat the head and/or the oil
> pan (Carefully)
> Way cold = below 0ºF.
>
> > Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
> > December 28, 2017 at 4:50 PM
> > My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the triple glow. I had
> > M1 in the engine and always used anti-gel from December-March.
> > Dwight Giles
> > Wickford R!
> >
> > Dwight Giles Jr.
> > Wickford RI
> >
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Your block heater doesn't seem to work. If it did the car would start easily. 
Start by making sure the cable isn't munched. Just follow it to where it plugs 
in, damage will be obvious.

Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:05 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via 
Mercedes wrote:   Thanks - good questions.

Primer as the updated black cap.

If fuse were bad it would not start  Period.  Same with the gp relay -
would turn but wouldn't fire.

Might need a valve adjustment  I do a lot of stop and go driving.  Maybe
this has hastened the valve clearance tightening?

Battery is strong.  I did not try lengthy afterglow - that could help.

Perhaps tomorrow I will try to start w/o using the block heater but try
after-glowing instead.

Dwight wrote:  *My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the
triple glow**.*  What is that?







On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > On December 28, 2017 at 5:39 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Low probability might be an air leak in the fuel system that allows air
> in so the injection pump looses it's prime.  ;-)
>
> Does the primer pump have a white plastic cap that screws down to lock or
> a black cylindrical cap?
>
> Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I've apparently had some summer fuel foisted on me. I've been using a new place 
that only recently started carrying diesel. We picked up my car yesterday after 
getting a new front wheel bearing and it couldn't get out of it's own way. That 
was at about 0F, it started okay but had zero power. Fortunately we only had to 
limp a few miles home. I put some Power Service to it and let it run awhile. I 
didn't get a chance to try it today, I was out chasing Bambi's dad but Angie's 
car did the same thing Wednesday and was better after treatment so I'm 
expecting good results.One car I could have passed off as water, two with 
exactly the same problem is bad fuel...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:04 PM, Curley McLain via 
Mercedes wrote:   I never had any trouble down to 0 to 
-10.  BUT I was always careful to 
get winter fuel.  One time a truck stop foisted summer fuel on me 
without notice.  That caused problems because it was way cold.  Once I 
got enough kerosene mixed with it all was well, but since I had filled, 
I had to put in as much K as I could 3 times before it straightened out.

Below, -10, everything has to be right.  Fuel, Glow, oil, IP, Nozzles, 
advance, timing, valve timing, valves...
It is a good idea to plug in the block heater below 0.

On an Iron head engine, if you set stuck in the way cold while 
traveling, you can use a propane torch to heat the head and/or the oil  
pan (Carefully)
Way cold = below 0ºF.

> Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
> December 28, 2017 at 4:50 PM
> My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the triple glow. I had
> M1 in the engine and always used anti-gel from December-March.
> Dwight Giles
> Wickford R!
>
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
>

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I used to do the 3 glows then crank the heck out of till it starts

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2017, at 6:57 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 18:25:59 -0600 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>  wrote:
> 
>> Back in mi 61x days you cranked it until it either started or the
>> battery died. If you stopped you would not have a 2nd go at it. 
> 
> But wasn't that after extended glowing?
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 18:25:59 -0600 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
 wrote:

> Back in mi 61x days you cranked it until it either started or the
> battery died. If you stopped you would not have a 2nd go at it. 

But wasn't that after extended glowing?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Back in mi 61x days you cranked it until it either started or the battery died. 
If you stopped you would not have a 2nd go at it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2017, at 6:10 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Jaime Kopchinski wrote:
> 
>> Tis the season for difficult starting, so I put this together yesterday:
>> http://www.jaimekop.com/2017/12/cold-starting-your-mercedes-diesel-facts-and-fiction/
>> Enjoy,
>> Jaime Kopchinski
>> http://www.jaimekop.com/
>> ___
> 
> Very good!
> I didn't know MB starters/batteries were built for such long cranking.
> 
> One more question: How much fuel should the engine be given during a long 
> cranking session? I've found that just a little more fuel than the idle 
> amount seemed to work best using any procedure. Comment?
> Gerry 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Jaime Kopchinski wrote:

> Tis the season for difficult starting, so I put this together yesterday:
> http://www.jaimekop.com/2017/12/cold-starting-your-mercedes-diesel-facts-and-fiction/
> Enjoy,
> Jaime Kopchinski
> http://www.jaimekop.com/
> ___

Very good!
I didn't know MB starters/batteries were built for such long cranking.

One more question: How much fuel should the engine be given during a long 
cranking session? I've found that just a little more fuel than the idle amount 
seemed to work best using any procedure. Comment?
Gerry 

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Excellent!Great work!


Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes 
December 29, 2017 at 4:55 PM
Tis the season for difficult starting, so I put this together yesterday:
http://www.jaimekop.com/2017/12/cold-starting-your-mercedes-diesel-facts-and-fiction/

Enjoy,
Jaime




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[MBZ] Cold starting you diesel

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

Tis the season for difficult starting, so I put this together yesterday:
http://www.jaimekop.com/2017/12/cold-starting-your-mercedes-diesel-facts-and-fiction/

Enjoy,
Jaime


-- 
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http://www.jaimekop.com/
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

it helps.  That is part one of a two stage glow.  The second is to glow 
until the light goes off...or a bit longer, but before the relay times out.



Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
December 29, 2017 at 12:36 PM
I wonder what a single long glow would do.
Turn it to 'on', wait until the relay clunks off, then turn it to start.
Of course, it helps if you can hear the relay...

Mitch.


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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

BTDT.  That was literally and figuratively a non-starter.

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 13:36:01 -0500 (EST) Mitch Haley via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > I wonder what a single long glow would do.
> > Turn it to 'on', wait until the relay clunks off, then turn it to
> > start. Of course, it helps if you can hear the relay...
>
> You can watch the interior light ...
>
>
> Craig
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 13:36:01 -0500 (EST) Mitch Haley via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I wonder what a single long glow would do. 
> Turn it to 'on', wait until the relay clunks off, then turn it to
> start. Of course, it helps if you can hear the relay...

You can watch the interior light ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I wonder what a single long glow would do. 
Turn it to 'on', wait until the relay clunks off, then turn it to start. 
Of course, it helps if you can hear the relay...

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Kurley wouldn't last a day here.  20 above, but it's damp cold that only
those who live inside the beltway can deal with.

Seriously - I did attempt a triple glow start this morning, sans the block
heater.  Voila - started much more easily than yesterday with a preheated
engine.  My Achilles Heel will be a balky starter for wheni t gets REALLY
cold.

I also will test my GPs as a precaution.


On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 11:28 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I never had to do more than a double glow, and it is only needed below 10
> below.  (Assuming the engine, battery and GP systems are in good condition)
>
> I doubt it is that cold in Andrewland!
>
> ADCHUST DER FALFES!   (Deutz Engine Instructor)
>
> REPLACE THE FUSE  (Herr Doktor Booth)
>
> Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
>> December 28, 2017 at 10:02 PM
>> Me neither
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I never had to do more than a double glow, and it is only needed below 
10 below.  (Assuming the engine, battery and GP systems are in good 
condition)


I doubt it is that cold in Andrewland!

ADCHUST DER FALFES!   (Deutz Engine Instructor)

REPLACE THE FUSE  (Herr Doktor Booth)


Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
December 28, 2017 at 10:02 PM
Me neither



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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
December 28, 2017 at 9:05 PM
Thanks - good questions.

Primer as the updated black cap.  GOOD

If fuse were bad it would not start Period. Same with the gp relay -
would turn but wouldn't fire.  WRONG

Might need a valve adjustment I do a lot of stop and go driving. Maybe
this has hastened the valve clearance tightening?  YES

Battery is strong. I did not try lengthy afterglow - that could help.  
NO WAY TO DO AFTERGLOW ON A 85, unless you cut the violet wire or take 
the pin out of the plug.


Perhaps tomorrow I will try to start w/o using the block heater but try
after-glowing instead.  DON'T BOTHER,  TEST THE GPs and RELAY!

Dwight wrote: *My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the
triple glow**.* What is that?   GLOW until the timer clicks off 
TWICE.  Third time, crank when the light goes OUT!








On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
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Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
December 28, 2017 at 7:39 PM

Does the primer pump have a white plastic cap that screws down to lock 
or a black cylindrical cap?


Mitch.

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Max Dillon via Mercedes 
December 28, 2017 at 4:39 PM
Low probability might be an air leak in the fuel system that allows 
air in so the injection pump looses it's prime. ;-)


I'd start with the preglow system as already discussed, keep this idea 
in mind if that route doesn't solve the issue.


Valves adjusted recently?
Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
December 28, 2017 at 3:27 PM
On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started when the
temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being plugged into the block
heater. It takes 2 minutes of multiple glows and attempts before I can get
it fired up. Once I get it started the engine runs as if it were 
preheated.


Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue? Do the plugs wear out or
simply fail? If one is dead will the other 4 start the car, albeit
laboriously?

Happy 2018 to all,

Andrew
1983 300TD
362 K
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Me neither 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2017, at 9:41 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes I never had to do the triple glow,with my OM 602.
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
> On Dec 28, 2017 10:25 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> That’s how I have always done it years back in the 61x cars.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Dec 28, 2017, at 9:11 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Triple glow is,the Curt technique. Do the glow 3 times before trying to
>>> start. Has worked,great for me.
>>> 
>>> Dwight Giles Jr.
>>> Wickford RI
>>> 
>>> On Dec 28, 2017 10:05 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 Thanks - good questions.
 
 Primer as the updated black cap.
 
 If fuse were bad it would not start  Period.  Same with the gp relay -
 would turn but wouldn't fire.
 
 Might need a valve adjustment  I do a lot of stop and go driving.  Maybe
 this has hastened the valve clearance tightening?
 
 Battery is strong.  I did not try lengthy afterglow - that could help.
 
 Perhaps tomorrow I will try to start w/o using the block heater but try
 after-glowing instead.
 
 Dwight wrote:  *My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the
 triple glow**.*  What is that?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
 mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
> 
>> On December 28, 2017 at 5:39 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Low probability might be an air leak in the fuel system that allows
>> air
> in so the injection pump looses it's prime.  ;-)
> 
> Does the primer pump have a white plastic cap that screws down to lock
>> or
> a black cylindrical cap?
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Yes I never had to do the triple glow,with my OM 602.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Dec 28, 2017 10:25 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> That’s how I have always done it years back in the 61x cars.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 28, 2017, at 9:11 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Triple glow is,the Curt technique. Do the glow 3 times before trying to
> > start. Has worked,great for me.
> >
> > Dwight Giles Jr.
> > Wickford RI
> >
> > On Dec 28, 2017 10:05 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks - good questions.
> >>
> >> Primer as the updated black cap.
> >>
> >> If fuse were bad it would not start  Period.  Same with the gp relay -
> >> would turn but wouldn't fire.
> >>
> >> Might need a valve adjustment  I do a lot of stop and go driving.  Maybe
> >> this has hastened the valve clearance tightening?
> >>
> >> Battery is strong.  I did not try lengthy afterglow - that could help.
> >>
> >> Perhaps tomorrow I will try to start w/o using the block heater but try
> >> after-glowing instead.
> >>
> >> Dwight wrote:  *My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the
> >> triple glow**.*  What is that?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
>  On December 28, 2017 at 5:39 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> >>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>  Low probability might be an air leak in the fuel system that allows
> air
> >>> in so the injection pump looses it's prime.  ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Does the primer pump have a white plastic cap that screws down to lock
> or
> >>> a black cylindrical cap?
> >>>
> >>> Mitch.
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

That’s how I have always done it years back in the 61x cars.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2017, at 9:11 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Triple glow is,the Curt technique. Do the glow 3 times before trying to
> start. Has worked,great for me.
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
> On Dec 28, 2017 10:05 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks - good questions.
>> 
>> Primer as the updated black cap.
>> 
>> If fuse were bad it would not start  Period.  Same with the gp relay -
>> would turn but wouldn't fire.
>> 
>> Might need a valve adjustment  I do a lot of stop and go driving.  Maybe
>> this has hastened the valve clearance tightening?
>> 
>> Battery is strong.  I did not try lengthy afterglow - that could help.
>> 
>> Perhaps tomorrow I will try to start w/o using the block heater but try
>> after-glowing instead.
>> 
>> Dwight wrote:  *My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the
>> triple glow**.*  What is that?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
 On December 28, 2017 at 5:39 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
 
 
 Low probability might be an air leak in the fuel system that allows air
>>> in so the injection pump looses it's prime.  ;-)
>>> 
>>> Does the primer pump have a white plastic cap that screws down to lock or
>>> a black cylindrical cap?
>>> 
>>> Mitch.
>>> 
>>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Ok we are waiting. Northern cold forces us to deal creatively with winter
diesels.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Dec 28, 2017 10:12 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel"  wrote:

> OMG sheer genius.  I will report back tomorrow come what may.
>
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:11 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> Triple glow is,the Curt technique. Do the glow 3 times before trying to
>> start. Has worked,great for me.
>>
>> Dwight Giles Jr.
>> Wickford RI
>>
>> On Dec 28, 2017 10:05 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks - good questions.
>> >
>> > Primer as the updated black cap.
>> >
>> > If fuse were bad it would not start  Period.  Same with the gp relay -
>> > would turn but wouldn't fire.
>> >
>> > Might need a valve adjustment  I do a lot of stop and go driving.  Maybe
>> > this has hastened the valve clearance tightening?
>> >
>> > Battery is strong.  I did not try lengthy afterglow - that could help.
>> >
>> > Perhaps tomorrow I will try to start w/o using the block heater but try
>> > after-glowing instead.
>> >
>> > Dwight wrote:  *My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the
>> > triple glow**.*  What is that?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
>> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > > On December 28, 2017 at 5:39 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
>> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Low probability might be an air leak in the fuel system that allows
>> air
>> > > in so the injection pump looses it's prime.  ;-)
>> > >
>> > > Does the primer pump have a white plastic cap that screws down to
>> lock or
>> > > a black cylindrical cap?
>> > >
>> > > Mitch.
>> > >
>> > > ___
>> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > >
>> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> > >
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>> > >
>> > >
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

OMG sheer genius.  I will report back tomorrow come what may.

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:11 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Triple glow is,the Curt technique. Do the glow 3 times before trying to
> start. Has worked,great for me.
>
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
>
> On Dec 28, 2017 10:05 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks - good questions.
> >
> > Primer as the updated black cap.
> >
> > If fuse were bad it would not start  Period.  Same with the gp relay -
> > would turn but wouldn't fire.
> >
> > Might need a valve adjustment  I do a lot of stop and go driving.  Maybe
> > this has hastened the valve clearance tightening?
> >
> > Battery is strong.  I did not try lengthy afterglow - that could help.
> >
> > Perhaps tomorrow I will try to start w/o using the block heater but try
> > after-glowing instead.
> >
> > Dwight wrote:  *My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the
> > triple glow**.*  What is that?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > On December 28, 2017 at 5:39 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Low probability might be an air leak in the fuel system that allows
> air
> > > in so the injection pump looses it's prime.  ;-)
> > >
> > > Does the primer pump have a white plastic cap that screws down to lock
> or
> > > a black cylindrical cap?
> > >
> > > Mitch.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> > >
> > >
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Triple glow is,the Curt technique. Do the glow 3 times before trying to
start. Has worked,great for me.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Dec 28, 2017 10:05 PM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Thanks - good questions.
>
> Primer as the updated black cap.
>
> If fuse were bad it would not start  Period.  Same with the gp relay -
> would turn but wouldn't fire.
>
> Might need a valve adjustment  I do a lot of stop and go driving.  Maybe
> this has hastened the valve clearance tightening?
>
> Battery is strong.  I did not try lengthy afterglow - that could help.
>
> Perhaps tomorrow I will try to start w/o using the block heater but try
> after-glowing instead.
>
> Dwight wrote:  *My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the
> triple glow**.*  What is that?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > > On December 28, 2017 at 5:39 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Low probability might be an air leak in the fuel system that allows air
> > in so the injection pump looses it's prime.  ;-)
> >
> > Does the primer pump have a white plastic cap that screws down to lock or
> > a black cylindrical cap?
> >
> > Mitch.
> >
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Thanks - good questions.

Primer as the updated black cap.

If fuse were bad it would not start  Period.  Same with the gp relay -
would turn but wouldn't fire.

Might need a valve adjustment  I do a lot of stop and go driving.  Maybe
this has hastened the valve clearance tightening?

Battery is strong.  I did not try lengthy afterglow - that could help.

Perhaps tomorrow I will try to start w/o using the block heater but try
after-glowing instead.

Dwight wrote:  *My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the
triple glow**.*  What is that?







On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > On December 28, 2017 at 5:39 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Low probability might be an air leak in the fuel system that allows air
> in so the injection pump looses it's prime.  ;-)
>
> Does the primer pump have a white plastic cap that screws down to lock or
> a black cylindrical cap?
>
> Mitch.
>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

> On December 28, 2017 at 5:39 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Low probability might be an air leak in the fuel system that allows air in so 
> the injection pump looses it's prime.  ;-)

Does the primer pump have a white plastic cap that screws down to lock or a 
black cylindrical cap?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Well, if he still has a Die Easy battery, we know the battery is weak.


Dimitri via Mercedes 
December 28, 2017 at 7:07 PM
The plugs are wired in parallel so if one fails the others will work 
but starting will get more difficult. When was the last time your 
valves were adjusted? What is the condition of your battery and 
charging system?


Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Try afterglow.  It was enabled in the later 603/6 engines.  cut the 
violet wire in the small cable to the glow relay.  That will enable the 
afterglow.  On the push pull glow, I always disconnected the cable form 
the IP and put in a separate shutoff.  That way on really cold days you 
could manually do an afterglow until the engine was firing evenly and 
normally.  I could aldo lock the ign and steering; take the key and 
leave it idle in the cold weather.  (Doors locked)


I always thought the elegant way to enable afterglow on the early 60x 
engines would be to put a switch under the dash and cut into the violet 
wire somewhere near the fuseblock.  THen you could turn the switch off 
for afterglow int he winter, and on for no afterglow int he 
summer/spring/fall when it is not needed.



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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Dimitri via Mercedes]

The plugs are wired in parallel so if one fails the others will work but 
starting will get more difficult. When was the last time your valves were 
adjusted? What is the condition of your battery and charging system?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2017, at 4:27 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started when the
> temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being plugged into the block
> heater.  It takes 2 minutes of multiple glows and attempts before I can get
> it fired up. Once I get it started the engine runs as if it were preheated.
> 
> Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue?  Do the plugs wear out or
> simply fail?  If one is dead will the other 4 start the car, albeit
> laboriously?
> 
> Happy 2018 to all,
> 
> Andrew
> 1983 300TD
> 362 K
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I never had any trouble down to 0 to -10.  BUT I was always careful to 
get winter fuel.  One time a truck stop foisted summer fuel on me 
without notice.  That caused problems because it was way cold.  Once I 
got enough kerosene mixed with it all was well, but since I had filled, 
I had to put in as much K as I could 3 times before it straightened out.


Below, -10, everything has to be right.  Fuel, Glow, oil, IP, Nozzles, 
advance, timing, valve timing, valves...

It is a good idea to plug in the block heater below 0.

On an Iron head engine, if you set stuck in the way cold while 
traveling, you can use a propane torch to heat the head and/or the oil  
pan (Carefully)

Way cold = below 0ºF.


Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
December 28, 2017 at 4:50 PM
My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the triple glow. I had
M1 in the engine and always used anti-gel from December-March.
Dwight Giles
Wickford R!

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI



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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Low probability might be an air leak in the fuel system that allows air in so 
the injection pump looses it's prime.  ;-)

I'd start with the preglow system as already discussed, keep this idea in mind 
if that route doesn't solve the issue.

Valves adjusted recently?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On December 28, 2017 4:27:45 PM EST, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started when the
>temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being plugged into the
>block
>heater.  It takes 2 minutes of multiple glows and attempts before I can
>get
>it fired up. Once I get it started the engine runs as if it were
>preheated.
>
>Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue?  Do the plugs wear
>out or
>simply fail?  If one is dead will the other 4 start the car, albeit
>laboriously?
>
>Happy 2018 to all,
>
>Andrew
>1983 300TD
>362 K
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

Andrew sez:

>Question: Does this sound like a glow >plug issue?‎

GP or relay. I just changed out a relay in my son's 123. ‎

Have you set the valves?
Proper valve clearance is essential to cold weather starting. 

>Do the plugs wear out or simply fail?‎

Yes. Short out on carbon, or open from age. You probably should've sold that 
one and kept the one you sold to Manfred's friend. Oops. 

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[fmiser via Mercedes]

> Andrew wrote:

> On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started
> when the temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being
> plugged into the block heater.  It takes 2 minutes of multiple
> glows and attempts before I can get it fired up. Once I get it
> started the engine runs as if it were preheated.
> 
> Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue?  Do the plugs
> wear out or simply fail?  If one is dead will the other 4 start
> the car, albeit laboriously?

With a working block heater, I expect even my tired car to start
one dead glow plug.  I think it started with two dead glow plugs
- after the block heater was on for an hours at a temperature of
about 0 C (32 F).

Hard starting when cold is usually tight valves, failed glow
plugs, - or low compression.

Glow plugs are easy to test.  I'll post again my preferred method
using an automotive ammeter if anyone wants details.

Valve lash isn't hard, but it involves removing a bunch of the
ugly '85 stuff along with the rocker arm cover.  And fingertips
will become black from the engine oil.

A compression test requires special tools.  But if the other two
are okay, then it's probably compression.


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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Dr Booth used to say that every cold weather start for a diesel was a
compression test.

Dwight Giles Jr.
1972 300CD
2005 E320 4matic
Wickford RI

On Dec 28, 2017 5:50 PM, "Robert Massmann via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Andrew,

Sounds a little like my 85 300CD, I had too stop driving it in the the
winter time because it wouldn't start even with fresh glow plugs. Turned
out to be low compression, which is needed to get the fuel to ignite. Glow
plugs draw at least 10 amps and then drops of slightly as the plug warms
up. You could also check and see if you may have a large voltage drop on
the individual glow plug wires to make sure you do not have higher than
normal resistance in each of the glow plug wires. To much of a voltage drop
means the cglow plug will not get full voltage and will not heat up fully
as needed!

Regards,

Bob Massmann
Oregonia, Ohio

95 E300D
85 300CD
82 300D
81 VW Rabbit Pickup
2002 BMW 525i

-Original Message- From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 4:27 PM

To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started when the
temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being plugged into the block
heater.  It takes 2 minutes of multiple glows and attempts before I can get
it fired up. Once I get it started the engine runs as if it were preheated.

Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue?  Do the plugs wear out or
simply fail?  If one is dead will the other 4 start the car, albeit
laboriously?

Happy 2018 to all,

Andrew
1983 300TD
362 K
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Yes, it will make it harder to start the car if one plug is bad. IIRC, the
engine will run rough for a bit until that cylinder gets warm enough to
fire. If yours is running smoothly from moment it finally starts, then I
don't think it's a single (or two) glow plug issue. Either a bad plug relay
or fuse, or low compression. YMMV.

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> My question was whether one bad GP would make it harder to start the car
> than with 5 good ones. Two bad ones?  But your point is taken - I will test
> them all once it gets a little warmer.
>
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > As I recall you posted that you may have bad GPs several weeks ago.  Id
> > you did then, you certainly do now.  Test them and find out.  it is not
> > hard.  Pull the pug at the GP realy and check ohms to ground in all 5
> pins
> > with inserts.  I'd bet you have at least 2 with infinite resistance..
> >
> > Wear out or fail, your choice.  Either way they are BAD.
> >
> > Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
> >> December 28, 2017 at 3:27 PM
> >>
> >> On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started when the
> >> temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being plugged into the block
> >> heater. It takes 2 minutes of multiple glows and attempts before I can
> get
> >> it fired up. Once I get it started the engine runs as if it were
> >> preheated.
> >>
> >> Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue? Do the plugs wear out
> or
> >> simply fail? If one is dead will the other 4 start the car, albeit
> >> laboriously?
> >>
> >> Happy 2018 to all,
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >> 1983 300TD
> >> 362 K
> >>
> >
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-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Robert Massmann via Mercedes]

Andrew,

Sounds a little like my 85 300CD, I had too stop driving it in the the 
winter time because it wouldn't start even with fresh glow plugs. Turned out 
to be low compression, which is needed to get the fuel to ignite. Glow plugs 
draw at least 10 amps and then drops of slightly as the plug warms up. You 
could also check and see if you may have a large voltage drop on the 
individual glow plug wires to make sure you do not have higher than normal 
resistance in each of the glow plug wires. To much of a voltage drop means 
the cglow plug will not get full voltage and will not heat up fully as 
needed!


Regards,

Bob Massmann
Oregonia, Ohio

95 E300D
85 300CD
82 300D
81 VW Rabbit Pickup
2002 BMW 525i

-Original Message- 
From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes

Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 4:27 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started when the
temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being plugged into the block
heater.  It takes 2 minutes of multiple glows and attempts before I can get
it fired up. Once I get it started the engine runs as if it were preheated.

Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue?  Do the plugs wear out or
simply fail?  If one is dead will the other 4 start the car, albeit
laboriously?

Happy 2018 to all,

Andrew
1983 300TD
362 K
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

My 79 240D would start at 4F with no heater using the triple glow.  I had
M1 in the engine and always used anti-gel from December-March.
Dwight Giles
Wickford R!

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 5:44 PM, Larry Turner via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> My 78 240D started easily until it got cold even if plugged in. Then it
> refused even w/new GPs.  Ended up having low compression but it gave me the
> "opportunity" to completely rebuild the engine.  I still think about that
> rebuild with pride.  Gave me 30,000miles + of trouble free driving
>
> Have you checked the compression?
>
> LarryT
>
>
> On 12/28/2017 4:53 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> Quite possible too!  I've had several bad GP relays.  If the GPs test
>> good, and you HAVE replaced the fuse, (and the new fuse does not blow the
>> first time you try to glow) and it is still no start, then it is likely the
>> relay is bad.
>>
>> Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
>>> December 28, 2017 at 3:40 PM
>>> That sounds like the experience I had with my '84 300D when the relay
>>> failed. If the engine has decent compression it should start ok with one
>>> bad GP. The GPs are easy to test with an ohmmeter.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Larry Turner via Mercedes]

My 78 240D started easily until it got cold even if plugged in. Then it 
refused even w/new GPs.  Ended up having low compression but it gave me 
the "opportunity" to completely rebuild the engine.  I still think about 
that rebuild with pride.  Gave me 30,000miles + of trouble free driving


Have you checked the compression?

LarryT


On 12/28/2017 4:53 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
Quite possible too!  I've had several bad GP relays.  If the GPs test 
good, and you HAVE replaced the fuse, (and the new fuse does not blow 
the first time you try to glow) and it is still no start, then it is 
likely the relay is bad.



Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
December 28, 2017 at 3:40 PM
That sounds like the experience I had with my '84 300D when the relay 
failed. If the engine has decent compression it should start ok with 
one bad GP. The GPs are easy to test with an ohmmeter.


Greg


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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I had 1 bad plug in a 240d and it would not start at all

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 28, 2017, at 3:50 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> My question was whether one bad GP would make it harder to start the car
> than with 5 good ones. Two bad ones?  But your point is taken - I will test
> them all once it gets a little warmer.
> 
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> As I recall you posted that you may have bad GPs several weeks ago.  Id
>> you did then, you certainly do now.  Test them and find out.  it is not
>> hard.  Pull the pug at the GP realy and check ohms to ground in all 5 pins
>> with inserts.  I'd bet you have at least 2 with infinite resistance..
>> 
>> Wear out or fail, your choice.  Either way they are BAD.
>> 
>> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>>> December 28, 2017 at 3:27 PM
>>> 
>>> On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started when the
>>> temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being plugged into the block
>>> heater. It takes 2 minutes of multiple glows and attempts before I can get
>>> it fired up. Once I get it started the engine runs as if it were
>>> preheated.
>>> 
>>> Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue? Do the plugs wear out or
>>> simply fail? If one is dead will the other 4 start the car, albeit
>>> laboriously?
>>> 
>>> Happy 2018 to all,
>>> 
>>> Andrew
>>> 1983 300TD
>>> 362 K
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Quite possible too!  I've had several bad GP relays.  If the GPs test 
good, and you HAVE replaced the fuse, (and the new fuse does not blow 
the first time you try to glow) and it is still no start, then it is 
likely the relay is bad.



Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
December 28, 2017 at 3:40 PM
That sounds like the experience I had with my '84 300D when the relay 
failed. If the engine has decent compression it should start ok with 
one bad GP. The GPs are easy to test with an ohmmeter.


Greg


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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

My question was whether one bad GP would make it harder to start the car
than with 5 good ones. Two bad ones?  But your point is taken - I will test
them all once it gets a little warmer.

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> As I recall you posted that you may have bad GPs several weeks ago.  Id
> you did then, you certainly do now.  Test them and find out.  it is not
> hard.  Pull the pug at the GP realy and check ohms to ground in all 5 pins
> with inserts.  I'd bet you have at least 2 with infinite resistance..
>
> Wear out or fail, your choice.  Either way they are BAD.
>
> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>> December 28, 2017 at 3:27 PM
>>
>> On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started when the
>> temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being plugged into the block
>> heater. It takes 2 minutes of multiple glows and attempts before I can get
>> it fired up. Once I get it started the engine runs as if it were
>> preheated.
>>
>> Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue? Do the plugs wear out or
>> simply fail? If one is dead will the other 4 start the car, albeit
>> laboriously?
>>
>> Happy 2018 to all,
>>
>> Andrew
>> 1983 300TD
>> 362 K
>>
>
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

That sounds like the experience I had with my '84 300D when the relay failed. 
If the engine has decent compression it should start ok with one bad GP. The 
GPs are easy to test with an ohmmeter.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew 
Strasfogel via Mercedes
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2017 1:28 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started when the 
temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being plugged into the block 
heater.  It takes 2 minutes of multiple glows and attempts before I can get it 
fired up. Once I get it started the engine runs as if it were preheated.

Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue?  Do the plugs wear out or 
simply fail?  If one is dead will the other 4 start the car, albeit laboriously?

Happy 2018 to all,

Andrew
1983 300TD
362 K
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Re: [MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

As I recall you posted that you may have bad GPs several weeks ago.  Id 
you did then, you certainly do now.  Test them and find out.  it is not 
hard.  Pull the pug at the GP realy and check ohms to ground in all 5 
pins with inserts.  I'd bet you have at least 2 with infinite resistance..


Wear out or fail, your choice.  Either way they are BAD.


Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
December 28, 2017 at 3:27 PM
On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started when the
temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being plugged into the block
heater. It takes 2 minutes of multiple glows and attempts before I can get
it fired up. Once I get it started the engine runs as if it were 
preheated.


Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue? Do the plugs wear out or
simply fail? If one is dead will the other 4 start the car, albeit
laboriously?

Happy 2018 to all,

Andrew
1983 300TD
362 K


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[MBZ] Cold starting issue - glow plugs?

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

On my W123 300TD, I am having a hard time getting it started when the
temperature dips below 20 F despite the car being plugged into the block
heater.  It takes 2 minutes of multiple glows and attempts before I can get
it fired up. Once I get it started the engine runs as if it were preheated.

Question: Does this sound like a glow plug issue?  Do the plugs wear out or
simply fail?  If one is dead will the other 4 start the car, albeit
laboriously?

Happy 2018 to all,

Andrew
1983 300TD
362 K
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 13:26:22 -0600 OK Don via Mercedes
 wrote:

> I found Dave's list and stuck it on OneDrive:
> 
> https://1drv.ms/f/s!Aq8Oa078p_LjgQGp_8GpYAO2cH39

Yup, that's the one I remembered.

Thanks,


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[MG via Mercedes]

It is a Bosch which is what Mercedes uses. I forget what model it 
was originally on. It is a bit bigger in size also but does fit. 
The one thing that you do have to do is change the ends of the 
original alt wires. I also installed a much larger main cable 
straight to the battery from the alt.


Kyle Arola via Mercedes wrote:

Wow, 55 to 80 is a big jump!  I imagine I will be making that jump in a bit
as well  Is this a MB alternator, or an aftermarket brand?

Kyle

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 9:00 AM, MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:


Regular alt is 55 amp with a 65 amp available. I recently put an 80amp on
my TD that finally keeps up with the drain when I run the headlights,
wipers and AC all at the same time. In local traffic the 55 amp alt
couldn't keep up. Even at highway speed it was marginal.

Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:


You don't drive it very far though. Cold starting takes amps out of your
battery, the 123 has a relatively small (70a?) alternator. It takes time
and revs to put the amps you took out back in. A battery minder plugged in
during these cold times will help the battery stay charged up.
-Curt


  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Andrew
Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 5:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
   Balogna.  I drive this car EVERY day.

The simplest explanation is usually the answer.  Gonna test my Diehard.

What does NAPA sell?

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Well, when you buy die-Easy crap batteries in place of real batteries what

do you expect?

Did the guy adjust the valves right?  Are the clearances right at current
temp?

If your engine/starting system was in good shape it would not need a
heater at moderate temps like you have.

You probably need a new cord for the heater, or it needs to be plugged in
to the heater.

Check the GP resistance

Check that each GP is getting power and the relay is working

Air, fuel, fire/compression.  You need all three for internal combustion.

Valves not adjusted = low compression = no fire

<5 working GPs = no fire

air leak= no fuel

Plugged intake= no air

I was in a home despot and saw they had group 49 batteries on the shelf.
$119  I'm thinking that is the best deal around.

If you insist on overpaying for batteries, at least buy and interstate,
You WILL get a good battery for you money.  you pay 50% more for the
die-easy and get 50% less battery for an application that needs 100 to
150%
battery.

Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>


January 10, 2017 at 9:56 AM
I broke down and got a jump-start this morning. It really needed to
crank
and the battery wasn't up to the job. No heat in the engine, so the
block
heater is inoperative. I tried the light bulb trick, with no luck. Now
the
question remains, what is my problem? The system glowed perfectly and
the
relay is good. Could it be glow plugs? I just had a valve adjustment so
that's not it. My instinct says it's the DieHard battery again. I've had
to
replace this roughly every 18 months.

On Jan 10, 2017 9:26 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com>
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Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 10, 2017 at 8:25 AM
I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the snowmobile
club has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the Kill-A-Watt on it,
sure enough it was drawing 800 watts. That machine is terrible to start
in
the cold, the block heater is pretty much required.
-Curt

From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel



On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's
quiet
outside.  Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter.  Kill-A-Watt is highly
recommended,
and fairly cheap.  Dozens of uses!

-- Jim
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Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 10, 2017 at 12:51 AM


On ours you can

Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I found Dave's list and stuck it on OneDrive:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Aq8Oa078p_LjgQGp_8GpYAO2cH39


On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I recall having Dave Meiman's list of alternators, but I can't find it.
>
> Perhaps someone can post his URL.
>
>
> Craig
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 09:01:53 -0600 Curley McLain via Mercedes
 wrote:

> Bosch, same body as the original. looks and fits the same on the
> outside.
> 
> > Kyle Arola via Mercedes 
> > January 11, 2017 at 8:38 AM
> > Wow, 55 to 80 is a big jump! I imagine I will be making that jump in
> > a bit as well Is this a MB alternator, or an aftermarket brand?

I recall having Dave Meiman's list of alternators, but I can't find it.

Perhaps someone can post his URL.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Shouldn't have to go under although the turbo might be kind of in the way, not 
a problem on a 240D...

-Curt

  From: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
 To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 11:55 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
   
Thanks -  I will crawl under and inspect.
On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Did you look at the cord, thats usually the cause of a non-working block 
heater. On my '83 240D it was really obvious, the wire was all chewed at the 
connector into the block heater. A new cable was cheap and easy to replace.
-Curt

      From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 10:51 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

Car started right up yesterday afternoon with temperature at 36 deg.
Battery is fine, glow plugs are fine.  Only problem is an inoperative block
heater.  Thanks to all for the good advice.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Bosch, same body as the original. looks and fits the same on the outside.
>
> Kyle Arola via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> January 11, 2017 at 8:38 AM
>> Wow, 55 to 80 is a big jump! I imagine I will be making that jump in a bit
>> as well Is this a MB alternator, or an aftermarket brand?
>>
>> Kyle
>>
>
> __ _
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Thanks -  I will crawl under and inspect.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Did you look at the cord, thats usually the cause of a non-working block
> heater. On my '83 240D it was really obvious, the wire was all chewed at
> the connector into the block heater. A new cable was cheap and easy to
> replace.
> -Curt
>
>   From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 10:51 AM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
>
> Car started right up yesterday afternoon with temperature at 36 deg.
> Battery is fine, glow plugs are fine.  Only problem is an inoperative block
> heater.  Thanks to all for the good advice.
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Bosch, same body as the original. looks and fits the same on the outside.
> >
> > Kyle Arola via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> January 11, 2017 at 8:38 AM
> >> Wow, 55 to 80 is a big jump! I imagine I will be making that jump in a
> bit
> >> as well Is this a MB alternator, or an aftermarket brand?
> >>
> >> Kyle
> >>
> >
> > ___
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> >
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Did you look at the cord, thats usually the cause of a non-working block 
heater. On my '83 240D it was really obvious, the wire was all chewed at the 
connector into the block heater. A new cable was cheap and easy to replace.
-Curt

  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 10:51 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
   
Car started right up yesterday afternoon with temperature at 36 deg.
Battery is fine, glow plugs are fine.  Only problem is an inoperative block
heater.  Thanks to all for the good advice.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Bosch, same body as the original. looks and fits the same on the outside.
>
> Kyle Arola via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> January 11, 2017 at 8:38 AM
>> Wow, 55 to 80 is a big jump! I imagine I will be making that jump in a bit
>> as well Is this a MB alternator, or an aftermarket brand?
>>
>> Kyle
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Kyle Arola via Mercedes]

Glad you got it working cause you ain't getting Bella back! NO way NO how!

Kyle

On Jan 11, 2017 10:51 AM, "Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Car started right up yesterday afternoon with temperature at 36 deg.
> Battery is fine, glow plugs are fine.  Only problem is an inoperative block
> heater.  Thanks to all for the good advice.
>
> On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Bosch, same body as the original. looks and fits the same on the outside.
> >
> > Kyle Arola via Mercedes 
> >> January 11, 2017 at 8:38 AM
> >> Wow, 55 to 80 is a big jump! I imagine I will be making that jump in a
> bit
> >> as well Is this a MB alternator, or an aftermarket brand?
> >>
> >> Kyle
> >>
> >
> > ___
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> >
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> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Car started right up yesterday afternoon with temperature at 36 deg.
Battery is fine, glow plugs are fine.  Only problem is an inoperative block
heater.  Thanks to all for the good advice.

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Bosch, same body as the original. looks and fits the same on the outside.
>
> Kyle Arola via Mercedes 
>> January 11, 2017 at 8:38 AM
>> Wow, 55 to 80 is a big jump! I imagine I will be making that jump in a bit
>> as well Is this a MB alternator, or an aftermarket brand?
>>
>> Kyle
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Bosch, same body as the original. looks and fits the same on the outside.


Kyle Arola via Mercedes 
January 11, 2017 at 8:38 AM
Wow, 55 to 80 is a big jump! I imagine I will be making that jump in a bit
as well Is this a MB alternator, or an aftermarket brand?

Kyle


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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Kyle Arola via Mercedes]

Wow, 55 to 80 is a big jump!  I imagine I will be making that jump in a bit
as well  Is this a MB alternator, or an aftermarket brand?

Kyle

On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 9:00 AM, MG via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:

> Regular alt is 55 amp with a 65 amp available. I recently put an 80amp on
> my TD that finally keeps up with the drain when I run the headlights,
> wipers and AC all at the same time. In local traffic the 55 amp alt
> couldn't keep up. Even at highway speed it was marginal.
>
> Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
>
>> You don't drive it very far though. Cold starting takes amps out of your
>> battery, the 123 has a relatively small (70a?) alternator. It takes time
>> and revs to put the amps you took out back in. A battery minder plugged in
>> during these cold times will help the battery stay charged up.
>> -Curt
>>
>>
>>   From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> Cc: Andrew
>> Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
>>  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 5:21 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
>>Balogna.  I drive this car EVERY day.
>>
>> The simplest explanation is usually the answer.  Gonna test my Diehard.
>>
>> What does NAPA sell?
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well, when you buy die-Easy crap batteries in place of real batteries what
>>> do you expect?
>>>
>>> Did the guy adjust the valves right?  Are the clearances right at current
>>> temp?
>>>
>>> If your engine/starting system was in good shape it would not need a
>>> heater at moderate temps like you have.
>>>
>>> You probably need a new cord for the heater, or it needs to be plugged in
>>> to the heater.
>>>
>>> Check the GP resistance
>>>
>>> Check that each GP is getting power and the relay is working
>>>
>>> Air, fuel, fire/compression.  You need all three for internal combustion.
>>>
>>> Valves not adjusted = low compression = no fire
>>>
>>> <5 working GPs = no fire
>>>
>>> air leak= no fuel
>>>
>>> Plugged intake= no air
>>>
>>> I was in a home despot and saw they had group 49 batteries on the shelf.
>>> $119  I'm thinking that is the best deal around.
>>>
>>> If you insist on overpaying for batteries, at least buy and interstate,
>>> You WILL get a good battery for you money.  you pay 50% more for the
>>> die-easy and get 50% less battery for an application that needs 100 to
>>> 150%
>>> battery.
>>>
>>> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>
>>>> January 10, 2017 at 9:56 AM
>>>> I broke down and got a jump-start this morning. It really needed to
>>>> crank
>>>> and the battery wasn't up to the job. No heat in the engine, so the
>>>> block
>>>> heater is inoperative. I tried the light bulb trick, with no luck. Now
>>>> the
>>>> question remains, what is my problem? The system glowed perfectly and
>>>> the
>>>> relay is good. Could it be glow plugs? I just had a valve adjustment so
>>>> that's not it. My instinct says it's the DieHard battery again. I've had
>>>> to
>>>> replace this roughly every 18 months.
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 10, 2017 9:26 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <
>>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>> ___
>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>>
>>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>>>
>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>>>
>>>> Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>> January 10, 2017 at 8:25 AM
>>>> I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the snowmobile
>>>> club has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the Kill-A-Watt on it,
>>>> sure enough it was drawing 800 watts. That machine is terrible to start
>>>> in
>>>> the cold, the block heater is pretty much required.
>>>> -Curt
>>>>
>>>> From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@o

Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[MG via Mercedes]

Regular alt is 55 amp with a 65 amp available. I recently put an 
80amp on my TD that finally keeps up with the drain when I run 
the headlights, wipers and AC all at the same time. In local 
traffic the 55 amp alt couldn't keep up. Even at highway speed it 
was marginal.


Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

You don't drive it very far though. Cold starting takes amps out of your 
battery, the 123 has a relatively small (70a?) alternator. It takes time and 
revs to put the amps you took out back in. A battery minder plugged in during 
these cold times will help the battery stay charged up.
-Curt


  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>

 Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 5:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
   
Balogna.  I drive this car EVERY day.


The simplest explanation is usually the answer.  Gonna test my Diehard.

What does NAPA sell?

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Well, when you buy die-Easy crap batteries in place of real batteries what
do you expect?

Did the guy adjust the valves right?  Are the clearances right at current
temp?

If your engine/starting system was in good shape it would not need a
heater at moderate temps like you have.

You probably need a new cord for the heater, or it needs to be plugged in
to the heater.

Check the GP resistance

Check that each GP is getting power and the relay is working

Air, fuel, fire/compression.  You need all three for internal combustion.

Valves not adjusted = low compression = no fire

<5 working GPs = no fire

air leak= no fuel

Plugged intake= no air

I was in a home despot and saw they had group 49 batteries on the shelf.
$119  I'm thinking that is the best deal around.

If you insist on overpaying for batteries, at least buy and interstate,
You WILL get a good battery for you money.  you pay 50% more for the
die-easy and get 50% less battery for an application that needs 100 to 150%
battery.

Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>

January 10, 2017 at 9:56 AM
I broke down and got a jump-start this morning. It really needed to crank
and the battery wasn't up to the job. No heat in the engine, so the block
heater is inoperative. I tried the light bulb trick, with no luck. Now the
question remains, what is my problem? The system glowed perfectly and the
relay is good. Could it be glow plugs? I just had a valve adjustment so
that's not it. My instinct says it's the DieHard battery again. I've had
to
replace this roughly every 18 months.

On Jan 10, 2017 9:26 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com>
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Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 10, 2017 at 8:25 AM
I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the snowmobile
club has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the Kill-A-Watt on it,
sure enough it was drawing 800 watts. That machine is terrible to start in
the cold, the block heater is pretty much required.
-Curt

From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel



On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's quiet
outside.  Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter.  Kill-A-Watt is highly
recommended,
and fairly cheap.  Dozens of uses!

-- Jim
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Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 10, 2017 at 12:51 AM


On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working. If it's quiet
outside. Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter. Kill-A-Watt is highly recommended,
and fairly cheap. Dozens of uses!

-- Jim
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Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 9, 2017 at 1:01 PM
I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke

Had to

Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Every die-easy battery I had lasted 6 to 18 months.  It may be 
undercharged, or it might be bad.  In either case, it sounds like he has 
bad GP or blown fuse or a bad relay.   But since he will neither listen 
nor troubleshoot, he will throw money at it until he figgers out a GP 
burned out and blew the GP fuse.  We don't need to bother telling him 
how to troubleshoot or how to.



Craig via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 10, 2017 at 11:13 PM
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 23:15:30 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:


You don't drive it very far though. Cold starting takes amps out of
your battery, the 123 has a relatively small (70a?) alternator. It
takes time and revs to put the amps you took out back in. A battery
minder plugged in during these cold times will help the battery stay
charged up. -Curt


I agree with Curt. But just in case Andrew wants to continue his
mule-headed ways and throw money at the car:

https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/promotions/battery?icid=q1_jan-feb2017_$20-mail-in-rebate-napa-legend-battery

While he is there, he should have them test the battery and the
alternator. They probably will tell him the battery should be fully
charged before testing ...

Fortunately, changing an alternator in a W123 is MUCH easier than in an
'89 Chevy G20 van.


Craig





   From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
  To: Mercedes Discussion List<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel<astrasfo...@gmail.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 5:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

Balogna.  I drive this car EVERY day.

The simplest explanation is usually the answer.  Gonna test my Diehard.

What does NAPA sell?

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes<
mercedes@okiebenz.com>  wrote:


Well, when you buy die-Easy crap batteries in place of real batteries
what do you expect?

Did the guy adjust the valves right?  Are the clearances right at
current temp?

If your engine/starting system was in good shape it would not need a
heater at moderate temps like you have.

You probably need a new cord for the heater, or it needs to be
plugged in to the heater.

Check the GP resistance

Check that each GP is getting power and the relay is working

Air, fuel, fire/compression.  You need all three for internal
combustion.

Valves not adjusted = low compression = no fire

<5 working GPs = no fire

air leak= no fuel

Plugged intake= no air

I was in a home despot and saw they had group 49 batteries on the
shelf. $119  I'm thinking that is the best deal around.

If you insist on overpaying for batteries, at least buy and
interstate, You WILL get a good battery for you money.  you pay 50%
more for the die-easy and get 50% less battery for an application
that needs 100 to 150% battery.

Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>

January 10, 2017 at 9:56 AM
I broke down and got a jump-start this morning. It really needed to
crank and the battery wasn't up to the job. No heat in the engine,
so the block heater is inoperative. I tried the light bulb trick,
with no luck. Now the question remains, what is my problem? The
system glowed perfectly and the relay is good. Could it be glow
plugs? I just had a valve adjustment so that's not it. My instinct
says it's the DieHard battery again. I've had to
replace this roughly every 18 months.

On Jan 10, 2017 9:26 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes"<
mercedes@okiebenz.com>
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Curt Raymond via Mercedes<mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 10, 2017 at 8:25 AM
I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the
snowmobile club has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the
Kill-A-Watt on it, sure enough it was drawing 800 watts. That
machine is terrible to start in the cold, the block heater is pretty
much required. -Curt

From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List<mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Jim Cathey<jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel



On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's
quiet outside.  Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter.  Kill-A-Watt is highly
recommended,
and fairly cheap.  Dozens of uses!

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 23:15:30 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> You don't drive it very far though. Cold starting takes amps out of
> your battery, the 123 has a relatively small (70a?) alternator. It
> takes time and revs to put the amps you took out back in. A battery
> minder plugged in during these cold times will help the battery stay
> charged up. -Curt

I agree with Curt. But just in case Andrew wants to continue his
mule-headed ways and throw money at the car:

https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/promotions/battery?icid=q1_jan-feb2017_$20-mail-in-rebate-napa-legend-battery

While he is there, he should have them test the battery and the
alternator. They probably will tell him the battery should be fully
charged before testing ...

Fortunately, changing an alternator in a W123 is MUCH easier than in an
'89 Chevy G20 van.


Craig




>   From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 5:21 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
>
> Balogna.  I drive this car EVERY day.
> 
> The simplest explanation is usually the answer.  Gonna test my Diehard.
> 
> What does NAPA sell?
> 
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> > Well, when you buy die-Easy crap batteries in place of real batteries
> > what do you expect?
> >
> > Did the guy adjust the valves right?  Are the clearances right at
> > current temp?
> >
> > If your engine/starting system was in good shape it would not need a
> > heater at moderate temps like you have.
> >
> > You probably need a new cord for the heater, or it needs to be
> > plugged in to the heater.
> >
> > Check the GP resistance
> >
> > Check that each GP is getting power and the relay is working
> >
> > Air, fuel, fire/compression.  You need all three for internal
> > combustion.
> >
> > Valves not adjusted = low compression = no fire
> >
> > <5 working GPs = no fire
> >
> > air leak= no fuel
> >
> > Plugged intake= no air
> >
> > I was in a home despot and saw they had group 49 batteries on the
> > shelf. $119  I'm thinking that is the best deal around.
> >
> > If you insist on overpaying for batteries, at least buy and
> > interstate, You WILL get a good battery for you money.  you pay 50%
> > more for the die-easy and get 50% less battery for an application
> > that needs 100 to 150% battery.
> >
> > Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> January 10, 2017 at 9:56 AM
> >> I broke down and got a jump-start this morning. It really needed to
> >> crank and the battery wasn't up to the job. No heat in the engine,
> >> so the block heater is inoperative. I tried the light bulb trick,
> >> with no luck. Now the question remains, what is my problem? The
> >> system glowed perfectly and the relay is good. Could it be glow
> >> plugs? I just had a valve adjustment so that's not it. My instinct
> >> says it's the DieHard battery again. I've had to
> >> replace this roughly every 18 months.
> >>
> >> On Jan 10, 2017 9:26 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> January 10, 2017 at 8:25 AM
> >> I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the
> >> snowmobile club has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the
> >> Kill-A-Watt on it, sure enough it was drawing 800 watts. That
> >> machine is terrible to start in the cold, the block heater is pretty
> >> much required. -Curt
> >>
> >> From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> >> Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:51 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's
> >> quiet outside.  Ot

Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

You don't drive it very far though. Cold starting takes amps out of your 
battery, the 123 has a relatively small (70a?) alternator. It takes time and 
revs to put the amps you took out back in. A battery minder plugged in during 
these cold times will help the battery stay charged up.
-Curt


  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 5:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
   
Balogna.  I drive this car EVERY day.

The simplest explanation is usually the answer.  Gonna test my Diehard.

What does NAPA sell?

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Well, when you buy die-Easy crap batteries in place of real batteries what
> do you expect?
>
> Did the guy adjust the valves right?  Are the clearances right at current
> temp?
>
> If your engine/starting system was in good shape it would not need a
> heater at moderate temps like you have.
>
> You probably need a new cord for the heater, or it needs to be plugged in
> to the heater.
>
> Check the GP resistance
>
> Check that each GP is getting power and the relay is working
>
> Air, fuel, fire/compression.  You need all three for internal combustion.
>
> Valves not adjusted = low compression = no fire
>
> <5 working GPs = no fire
>
> air leak= no fuel
>
> Plugged intake= no air
>
> I was in a home despot and saw they had group 49 batteries on the shelf.
> $119  I'm thinking that is the best deal around.
>
> If you insist on overpaying for batteries, at least buy and interstate,
> You WILL get a good battery for you money.  you pay 50% more for the
> die-easy and get 50% less battery for an application that needs 100 to 150%
> battery.
>
> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> January 10, 2017 at 9:56 AM
>> I broke down and got a jump-start this morning. It really needed to crank
>> and the battery wasn't up to the job. No heat in the engine, so the block
>> heater is inoperative. I tried the light bulb trick, with no luck. Now the
>> question remains, what is my problem? The system glowed perfectly and the
>> relay is good. Could it be glow plugs? I just had a valve adjustment so
>> that's not it. My instinct says it's the DieHard battery again. I've had
>> to
>> replace this roughly every 18 months.
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2017 9:26 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> January 10, 2017 at 8:25 AM
>> I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the snowmobile
>> club has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the Kill-A-Watt on it,
>> sure enough it was drawing 800 watts. That machine is terrible to start in
>> the cold, the block heater is pretty much required.
>> -Curt
>>
>> From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
>>
>>
>>
>> On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's quiet
>> outside.  Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter.  Kill-A-Watt is highly
>> recommended,
>> and fairly cheap.  Dozens of uses!
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> January 10, 2017 at 12:51 AM
>>
>>
>> On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working. If it's quiet
>> outside. Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter. Kill-A-Watt is highly recomme

Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Then better check the alternator too.

RB

On 10/01/2017 4:21 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

Balogna.  I drive this car EVERY day.

The simplest explanation is usually the answer.  Gonna test my Diehard.

What does NAPA sell?

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:


Well, when you buy die-Easy crap batteries in place of real batteries what
do you expect?

Did the guy adjust the valves right?  Are the clearances right at current
temp?

If your engine/starting system was in good shape it would not need a
heater at moderate temps like you have.

You probably need a new cord for the heater, or it needs to be plugged in
to the heater.

Check the GP resistance

Check that each GP is getting power and the relay is working

Air, fuel, fire/compression.  You need all three for internal combustion.

Valves not adjusted = low compression = no fire

<5 working GPs = no fire

air leak= no fuel

Plugged intake= no air

I was in a home despot and saw they had group 49 batteries on the shelf.
$119   I'm thinking that is the best deal around.

If you insist on overpaying for batteries, at least buy and interstate,
You WILL get a good battery for you money.  you pay 50% more for the
die-easy and get 50% less battery for an application that needs 100 to 150%
battery.

Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>

January 10, 2017 at 9:56 AM
I broke down and got a jump-start this morning. It really needed to crank
and the battery wasn't up to the job. No heat in the engine, so the block
heater is inoperative. I tried the light bulb trick, with no luck. Now the
question remains, what is my problem? The system glowed perfectly and the
relay is good. Could it be glow plugs? I just had a valve adjustment so
that's not it. My instinct says it's the DieHard battery again. I've had
to
replace this roughly every 18 months.

On Jan 10, 2017 9:26 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com>
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Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 10, 2017 at 8:25 AM
I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the snowmobile
club has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the Kill-A-Watt on it,
sure enough it was drawing 800 watts. That machine is terrible to start in
the cold, the block heater is pretty much required.
-Curt

From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel



On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's quiet
outside.  Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter.  Kill-A-Watt is highly
recommended,
and fairly cheap.  Dozens of uses!

-- Jim
___
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Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 10, 2017 at 12:51 AM


On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working. If it's quiet
outside. Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter. Kill-A-Watt is highly recommended,
and fairly cheap. Dozens of uses!

-- Jim
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Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 9, 2017 at 1:01 PM
I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke

Had to plug it in to start Sat. night (18 deg.) but then it would not
start
Sunday although plugged in for 30 mins. Left it plugged in overnight and
this AM no luck - wouldn't fire. It's either gelled fuel or a block heater
gone south (no pun intended). I'll plug it in again tonight but test for
warmth to see if there's any action. I just had the valves adjusted
too... The outlet is OK - checked that.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
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Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>

Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Balogna.  I drive this car EVERY day.

The simplest explanation is usually the answer.  Gonna test my Diehard.

What does NAPA sell?

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Well, when you buy die-Easy crap batteries in place of real batteries what
> do you expect?
>
> Did the guy adjust the valves right?  Are the clearances right at current
> temp?
>
> If your engine/starting system was in good shape it would not need a
> heater at moderate temps like you have.
>
> You probably need a new cord for the heater, or it needs to be plugged in
> to the heater.
>
> Check the GP resistance
>
> Check that each GP is getting power and the relay is working
>
> Air, fuel, fire/compression.  You need all three for internal combustion.
>
> Valves not adjusted = low compression = no fire
>
> <5 working GPs = no fire
>
> air leak= no fuel
>
> Plugged intake= no air
>
> I was in a home despot and saw they had group 49 batteries on the shelf.
> $119   I'm thinking that is the best deal around.
>
> If you insist on overpaying for batteries, at least buy and interstate,
> You WILL get a good battery for you money.  you pay 50% more for the
> die-easy and get 50% less battery for an application that needs 100 to 150%
> battery.
>
> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> January 10, 2017 at 9:56 AM
>> I broke down and got a jump-start this morning. It really needed to crank
>> and the battery wasn't up to the job. No heat in the engine, so the block
>> heater is inoperative. I tried the light bulb trick, with no luck. Now the
>> question remains, what is my problem? The system glowed perfectly and the
>> relay is good. Could it be glow plugs? I just had a valve adjustment so
>> that's not it. My instinct says it's the DieHard battery again. I've had
>> to
>> replace this roughly every 18 months.
>>
>> On Jan 10, 2017 9:26 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> January 10, 2017 at 8:25 AM
>> I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the snowmobile
>> club has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the Kill-A-Watt on it,
>> sure enough it was drawing 800 watts. That machine is terrible to start in
>> the cold, the block heater is pretty much required.
>> -Curt
>>
>> From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
>>
>>
>>
>> On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's quiet
>> outside.  Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter.  Kill-A-Watt is highly
>> recommended,
>> and fairly cheap.  Dozens of uses!
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> January 10, 2017 at 12:51 AM
>>
>>
>> On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working. If it's quiet
>> outside. Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter. Kill-A-Watt is highly recommended,
>> and fairly cheap. Dozens of uses!
>>
>> -- Jim
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>> Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> January 9, 2017 at 1:01 PM
>> I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke
>>
>> Had 

Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Well, when you buy die-Easy crap batteries in place of real batteries 
what do you expect?


Did the guy adjust the valves right?  Are the clearances right at 
current temp?


If your engine/starting system was in good shape it would not need a 
heater at moderate temps like you have.


You probably need a new cord for the heater, or it needs to be plugged 
in to the heater.


Check the GP resistance

Check that each GP is getting power and the relay is working

Air, fuel, fire/compression.  You need all three for internal combustion.

Valves not adjusted = low compression = no fire

<5 working GPs = no fire

air leak= no fuel

Plugged intake= no air

I was in a home despot and saw they had group 49 batteries on the 
shelf.  $119   I'm thinking that is the best deal around.


If you insist on overpaying for batteries, at least buy and interstate,  
You WILL get a good battery for you money.  you pay 50% more for the 
die-easy and get 50% less battery for an application that needs 100 to 
150% battery.



Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 10, 2017 at 9:56 AM
I broke down and got a jump-start this morning. It really needed to crank
and the battery wasn't up to the job. No heat in the engine, so the block
heater is inoperative. I tried the light bulb trick, with no luck. Now the
question remains, what is my problem? The system glowed perfectly and the
relay is good. Could it be glow plugs? I just had a valve adjustment so
that's not it. My instinct says it's the DieHard battery again. I've 
had to

replace this roughly every 18 months.

On Jan 10, 2017 9:26 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com>

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Curt Raymond via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 10, 2017 at 8:25 AM
I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the 
snowmobile club has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the 
Kill-A-Watt on it, sure enough it was drawing 800 watts. That machine 
is terrible to start in the cold, the block heater is pretty much 
required.

-Curt

From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel



On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's quiet
outside.  Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter.  Kill-A-Watt is highly 
recommended,

and fairly cheap.  Dozens of uses!

-- Jim
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Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 10, 2017 at 12:51 AM


On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working. If it's quiet
outside. Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter. Kill-A-Watt is highly recommended,
and fairly cheap. Dozens of uses!

-- Jim
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Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 9, 2017 at 1:01 PM
I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke

Had to plug it in to start Sat. night (18 deg.) but then it would not 
start

Sunday although plugged in for 30 mins. Left it plugged in overnight and
this AM no luck - wouldn't fire. It's either gelled fuel or a block heater
gone south (no pun intended). I'll plug it in again tonight but test for
warmth to see if there's any action. I just had the valves adjusted
too... The outlet is OK - checked that.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
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Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
January 9, 2017 at 9:04 AM



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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

You can have a single dead glow plug with no other indications.
I think you don't drive enough and thats hard on the battery. Get a load test 
and pickup a maintainer. Wire it so the maintainer stays in the car and you 
plug it in like the block heater.
While you're at it follow the cord for the block heater and see if its broken. 
I had that happen on my '83 240D.
-Curt

  From: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>; Curt Raymond 
<curtlud...@yahoo.com> 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:56 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
   
I broke down and got a jump-start this morning. It really needed to crank and 
the battery wasn't up to the job. No heat in the engine, so the block heater is 
inoperative. I tried the light bulb trick, with no luck. Now the question 
remains, what is my problem? The system glowed perfectly and the relay is good. 
Could it be glow plugs? I just had a valve adjustment so that's not it. My 
instinct says it's the DieHard battery again. I've had to replace this roughly 
every 18 months.
On Jan 10, 2017 9:26 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
wrote:

I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the snowmobile club 
has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the Kill-A-Watt on it, sure enough 
it was drawing 800 watts. That machine is terrible to start in the cold, the 
block heater is pretty much required.
-Curt

      From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:51 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

>
> I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke


On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's quiet
outside.  Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter.  Kill-A-Watt is highly recommended,
and fairly cheap.  Dozens of uses!

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I broke down and got a jump-start this morning. It really needed to crank
and the battery wasn't up to the job. No heat in the engine, so the block
heater is inoperative. I tried the light bulb trick, with no luck. Now the
question remains, what is my problem? The system glowed perfectly and the
relay is good. Could it be glow plugs? I just had a valve adjustment so
that's not it. My instinct says it's the DieHard battery again. I've had to
replace this roughly every 18 months.

On Jan 10, 2017 9:26 AM, "Curt Raymond via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
wrote:

> I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the snowmobile
> club has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the Kill-A-Watt on it,
> sure enough it was drawing 800 watts. That machine is terrible to start in
> the cold, the block heater is pretty much required.
> -Curt
>
>   From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:51 AM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
>
> >
> > I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke
>
>
> On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's quiet
> outside.  Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter.  Kill-A-Watt is highly recommended,
> and fairly cheap.  Dozens of uses!
>
> -- Jim
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I did that with the block heater in the ASV trail groomer the snowmobile club 
has. We weren't sure it was working so I put the Kill-A-Watt on it, sure enough 
it was drawing 800 watts. That machine is terrible to start in the cold, the 
block heater is pretty much required.
-Curt

  From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:51 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
   
>
> I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke


On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's quiet
outside.  Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter.  Kill-A-Watt is highly recommended,
and fairly cheap.  Dozens of uses!

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

>
> I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke


On ours you can hear the gentle hiss when they're working.  If it's quiet
outside.  Otherwise, ammeter/wattmeter.  Kill-A-Watt is highly recommended,
and fairly cheap.  Dozens of uses!

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

There was a picture in there of a MB cold start manual for your dizzel.  
Looks like it got stripped but the msg came through. Weird.



On 1/9/17 10:04 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes wrote:





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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Kyle is my designated Buyer from now until forever.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Kyle Arola via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> hahaha!
>
> Kyle LOVES his POS and would not sell it back!  My POS just needed a couple
> of little things and it is now filled with the awesome!
>
> Kyle
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > At 18F, it is not likely to be gelled fuel.  It should start.  Test the
> > GPs/relay.
> >
> > You shoulda sold Kyle that POS and kept the other POS!
> >
> > I'll give ya $500 if you deliver...
> >
> >
> > 18 is not even cold for these cars.  If it has good compression and good
> > fuel/delivery and a good battery, you can probably get it started with no
> > glow, but it WON't be happy starting that way!
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Kyle Arola via Mercedes]

hahaha!

Kyle LOVES his POS and would not sell it back!  My POS just needed a couple
of little things and it is now filled with the awesome!

Kyle

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> At 18F, it is not likely to be gelled fuel.  It should start.  Test the
> GPs/relay.
>
> You shoulda sold Kyle that POS and kept the other POS!
>
> I'll give ya $500 if you deliver...
>
>
> 18 is not even cold for these cars.  If it has good compression and good
> fuel/delivery and a good battery, you can probably get it started with no
> glow, but it WON't be happy starting that way!
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

At 18F, it is not likely to be gelled fuel.  It should start.  Test the 
GPs/relay.


You shoulda sold Kyle that POS and kept the other POS!

I'll give ya $500 if you deliver...


18 is not even cold for these cars.  If it has good compression and good 
fuel/delivery and a good battery, you can probably get it started with 
no glow, but it WON't be happy starting that way!

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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

The car should still start at 18F even without a block heater, assuming a good 
battery, working glowplugs, synthetic oil and correctly set valves.
Remember the procedure, run the glow cycle twice, foot to the floor, crank the 
engine until the car starts or the battery dies. Don't chicken out on this, 
plan to only make one try at this. It will be MUCH harder to start if you stop 
cranking and try again...
Put the battery charger on overnight, get a trouble light with a 100w bulb and 
put it under the hood for a couple hours, put a blanket over the front clip to 
hold the heat in. If it doesn't fire something else is wrong.
-Curt

  From: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
 To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 2:13 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
   
Normal.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I will also check the small transparent fuel filter to see if the fuel looks 
"bormal" or like a slurpee.
On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

After 2 or 3 hours the engine should be noticeably warm to the touch.
A few years ago my Jetta was out of commission so I tried to take my '84 190D 
to work at -10F. I got a couple blocks and it quit. Put the block heater on and 
12 hours later it still wouldn't go. Hauled it to my Indy where it fired right 
up, grrr...
I think I had gelled fuel. I put a quart of Diesel Supplement (enough to treat 
100 gallons) into the tank, drove it for a couple days and filled with good 
winter fuel.
-Curt

      From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 2:01 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke

Had to plug it in to start Sat. night (18 deg.) but then it would not start
Sunday although plugged in for 30 mins.  Left it plugged in overnight and
this AM no luck - wouldn't fire.  It's either gelled fuel or a block heater
gone south (no pun intended).  I'll plug it in again tonight but test for
warmth to see if there's any action.  I just had the valves adjusted
too...  The outlet is OK - checked that.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> --
> --FT
> Winston Churchill:
> “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small,
> large or petty,
> never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
> Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of
> the enemy.”
>
> __ _
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archiv e/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailm an/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz. com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I will also check the small transparent fuel filter to see if the fuel
looks "bormal" or like a slurpee.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> After 2 or 3 hours the engine should be noticeably warm to the touch.
> A few years ago my Jetta was out of commission so I tried to take my '84
> 190D to work at -10F. I got a couple blocks and it quit. Put the block
> heater on and 12 hours later it still wouldn't go. Hauled it to my Indy
> where it fired right up, grrr...
> I think I had gelled fuel. I put a quart of Diesel Supplement (enough to
> treat 100 gallons) into the tank, drove it for a couple days and filled
> with good winter fuel.
> -Curt
>
>   From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
>  Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 2:01 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
>
> I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke
>
> Had to plug it in to start Sat. night (18 deg.) but then it would not start
> Sunday although plugged in for 30 mins.  Left it plugged in overnight and
> this AM no luck - wouldn't fire.  It's either gelled fuel or a block heater
> gone south (no pun intended).  I'll plug it in again tonight but test for
> warmth to see if there's any action.  I just had the valves adjusted
> too...  The outlet is OK - checked that.
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > --
> > --FT
> > Winston Churchill:
> > “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small,
> > large or petty,
> > never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
> > Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of
> > the enemy.”
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Normal.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I will also check the small transparent fuel filter to see if the fuel
> looks "bormal" or like a slurpee.
>
> On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> After 2 or 3 hours the engine should be noticeably warm to the touch.
>> A few years ago my Jetta was out of commission so I tried to take my '84
>> 190D to work at -10F. I got a couple blocks and it quit. Put the block
>> heater on and 12 hours later it still wouldn't go. Hauled it to my Indy
>> where it fired right up, grrr...
>> I think I had gelled fuel. I put a quart of Diesel Supplement (enough to
>> treat 100 gallons) into the tank, drove it for a couple days and filled
>> with good winter fuel.
>> -Curt
>>
>>   From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>> Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
>>  Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 2:01 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
>>
>> I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke
>>
>> Had to plug it in to start Sat. night (18 deg.) but then it would not
>> start
>> Sunday although plugged in for 30 mins.  Left it plugged in overnight and
>> this AM no luck - wouldn't fire.  It's either gelled fuel or a block
>> heater
>> gone south (no pun intended).  I'll plug it in again tonight but test for
>> warmth to see if there's any action.  I just had the valves adjusted
>> too...  The outlet is OK - checked that.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > --
>> > --FT
>> > Winston Churchill:
>> > “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small,
>> > large or petty,
>> > never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
>> > Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might
>> of
>> > the enemy.”
>> >
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> >
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> >
>> >
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

After 2 or 3 hours the engine should be noticeably warm to the touch.
A few years ago my Jetta was out of commission so I tried to take my '84 190D 
to work at -10F. I got a couple blocks and it quit. Put the block heater on and 
12 hours later it still wouldn't go. Hauled it to my Indy where it fired right 
up, grrr...
I think I had gelled fuel. I put a quart of Diesel Supplement (enough to treat 
100 gallons) into the tank, drove it for a couple days and filled with good 
winter fuel.
-Curt

  From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 2:01 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel
   
I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke

Had to plug it in to start Sat. night (18 deg.) but then it would not start
Sunday although plugged in for 30 mins.  Left it plugged in overnight and
this AM no luck - wouldn't fire.  It's either gelled fuel or a block heater
gone south (no pun intended).  I'll plug it in again tonight but test for
warmth to see if there's any action.  I just had the valves adjusted
too...  The outlet is OK - checked that.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> --
> --FT
> Winston Churchill:
> “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small,
> large or petty,
> never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
> Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of
> the enemy.”
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
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Re: [MBZ] cold starting your dizzel

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I wonder if my W123 300TD block heater is broke

Had to plug it in to start Sat. night (18 deg.) but then it would not start
Sunday although plugged in for 30 mins.  Left it plugged in overnight and
this AM no luck - wouldn't fire.  It's either gelled fuel or a block heater
gone south (no pun intended).  I'll plug it in again tonight but test for
warmth to see if there's any action.  I just had the valves adjusted
too...  The outlet is OK - checked that.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> --
> --FT
> Winston Churchill:
> “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small,
> large or petty,
> never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
> Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of
> the enemy.”
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com