Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-06 Thread Vinicius Romanini
tinuous dialogue in which the utterer and interpreter are temporally >>>>>> sequential stages of the same (quasi-)mind. the pattern of neural >>>>>> activity >>>>>> that embodies a thought-sign is an *actual *utterance just as much >>>>&g

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Theosemiotic, the entire universe as a narrative or argument?

2021-11-06 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
ewise, if the entire universe is conceived as "a single grand narrative," then it seems to me that it requires a narrator. GF (https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2021-11/msg00028.html): A *narrative *is basically a representation of *a sequence of events* which is not nec

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-06 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
Even when our > actions do not have *conscious purposes > <https://gnusystems.ca/TS/sdg.htm#x02>, *they have motivations or > intentions which can be read as natural signs or tokens of *some* type of > “purpose”, or as intimations of Thirdness in the universe. > > Consequently I think that i

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-06 Thread Jeffrey Brian Downard
other form of action. --Jeff Jeffrey Downard Associate Professor Department of Philosophy Northern Arizona University (o) 928 523-8354 ________ From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu on behalf of g...@gnusystems.ca Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 8:04:29 AM To: 'P

Re: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] Re: Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-06 Thread JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
der if contributors shouldn't have to furnish practical analogies in order to clarify their use of terms, because trying to ground some of these concepts is not easy when everyone seems to be using a similar code with different meanings in various places. Best Jack ______

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-06 Thread Vinicius Romanini
t;> just as much as the pattern of sound waves or marks on a page that >>>>> embodies >>>>> a spoken or written text," and so the same questions just above might >>>>> be put to, especially, the verbal expression of that "highly origin

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-06 Thread gnox
Gary f. From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Jon Alan Schmidt Sent: 5-Nov-21 20:53 To: Peirce-L Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens Gary R., Phyllis, List: GR: But on further reflection, it is quite clear what the 'type' of the subway token is ... I am

[PEIRCE-L] To the benefit of those who have an answer for everything ...

2021-11-06 Thread robert marty
toanswer them all with positive assurance"* This gives rise to a little humility ... Robert Marty Honorary Professor ; PhD Mathematics ; PhD Philosophy fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Marty *https://martyrobert.academia.edu/ <https://martyrobert.academia.edu/>* _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-05 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
seem that for the purposes of developing a scientific semeiotic that we >>>> require such terminology to even speak about semiosis with other >>>> semioticians, to discuss semiosis generally, or individual examples of >>>> semiosis, etc. The danger, as I'm beginning to

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-05 Thread Phyllis Chiasson
>>>> is governed by the *general *type to which it conforms. However, >>>> individual *humans *are not tokens of the type "man" as a *word *in >>>> English, the type "homo" as a *word *in Latin, or the type "ἄνθρωπος" &

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-05 Thread Gary Richmond
t; GF: As Gary R confirmed, it is the written or spoken *word* that is a >>> token. It would follow that the three words in the different languages are >>> *subtypes*, not tokens, of the more general type which Peirce referred >>> to as “the same sign.” This implies a hierar

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-05 Thread Phyllis Chiasson
I wonder, though, whether the term “token” can only apply to *external >> *signs. >> In his October 1995 *Monist* article, Peirce referred to “A sign (under >> which designation I place every kind of thought, and not alone external >> signs)” (CP 5.447, EP2:350). A t

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-05 Thread Gary Richmond
just as a spoken or written text is > *embodied* in a pattern of sound waves or marks on a page. The only > difference is that it is an *internal* sign, invisible to others. Does > that disqualify it as a *token*? I would certainly hesitate to call it a > *type*. > > Gary f. >

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-05 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
w in a pattern of neural activity, > whether I *utter* it or not, just as a spoken or written text is > *embodied* in a pattern of sound waves or marks on a page. The only > difference is that it is an *internal* sign, invisible to others. Does > that disqualify it as a *token*? I would cert

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-05 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
o explain the grounds of the > validity of the reasoning, then I suspect we'd better take some care to > sort out the relationships between the quantifiers and modal operators in > the inductive reasoning. > > This kind of concern, I believe, should be controlling when it comes to > better und

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-05 Thread gnox
ural activity, whether I utter it or not, just as a spoken or written text is embodied in a pattern of sound waves or marks on a page. The only difference is that it is an internal sign, invisible to others. Does that disqualify it as a token? I would certainly hesitate to call it a type. G

Aw: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-05 Thread Helmut Raulien
n to refer to several specific levels of generality at once. By the way, some years ago I did a slideshow dealing with the etymology and history of the word “type,” in connection with a Peirce text where he uses the Greek form τύπος in reference to the “copulation” of Form and Matter in semiosis. The text

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-05 Thread Mike Bergman
a Peirce text where he uses the Greek form τύπος in reference to the “copulation” of Form and Matter in semiosis. The text is included in /Turning Signs/ here <https://gnusystems.ca/TS/gld.htm#x29>, in a passage leading up to a discussion of th

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-05 Thread Gary Richmond
mo*, ἄνθρωπος are the same >>> sign’ (MS 9), the “sign” is the type of which the three terms are tokens; >>> but the three terms are also types of which individual humans are tokens. >>> And if we use the term “individual” in logical strictness, we can say that >>> Phi

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-04 Thread Gary Richmond
he way, some years ago I did a slideshow >> <https://gnusystems.ca/Type.pdf> dealing with the etymology and history >> of the word “type,” in connection with a Peirce text where he uses the >> Greek form τύπος in reference to the “copulation” of Form and Matter in >> semiosis. The

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-11-04 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
directly via its immediate form whereas Kant's noumena > and so on is less amenable or wholly denied to perception?). > > Just trying to think of Peirce in practical terms by skeletonising his > theory as much as possible, adding parts when needed. > > Jack > > -------

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-04 Thread Jeffrey Brian Downard
d be controlling when it comes to better understanding the classification of different kinds of signs in a theory of speculative grammar as types or tokens. --Jeff Jeffrey Downard Associate Professor Department of Philosophy Northern Arizona University (o) 928 523-8354 ______

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-04 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
gy and history > of the word “type,” in connection with a Peirce text where he uses the > Greek form τύπος in reference to the “copulation” of Form and Matter in > semiosis. The text is included in *Turning Signs* here > <https://gnusystems.ca/TS/gld.htm#x29>, in a passage l

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-11-04 Thread JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
ble or wholly denied to perception?). Just trying to think of Peirce in practical terms by skeletonising his theory as much as possible, adding parts when needed. Jack ________ From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu on behalf of Jon Alan Schmidt Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens

2021-11-04 Thread gnox
x29> here, in a passage leading up to a discussion of the “categories.” Gary f. From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Jon Alan Schmidt Sent: 3-Nov-21 13:18 To: Peirce-L Subject: [PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts) G

[PEIRCE-L] Sender "N/A" was "John F Sowa"

2021-11-03 Thread John F Sowa
The Halloween goblin apparently replaced my name with "N/A" _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE,

[PEIRCE-L] Ghosts in science, engineering, and ontology

2021-11-03 Thread N/A
sible or impractical, and some fantasies may turn out to be true. A premature dismissal of fantasy can destroy creativity. John _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. P

Re: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] Signs, Types, and Tokens (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-11-03 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
gain, I know Peirce's theory is much > more general than human interpretation, but I wonder what your thoughts > would be regarding a perspectival rendering of said theory solely within > the performative/practical domain? > > Best > > Jack > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-

[PEIRCE-L] Signs, Types, and Tokens (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-11-03 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
t; embodiment (the token, the *existing* “text”) is another. Your perception > of inconsistency is based on the assumption that type and token are not two > “signs” but one. Both assumptions are arbitrary > <https://gnusystems.ca/TS/rlb.htm#bsrv>. That’s all. > > Gary f. > _ _ _

[PEIRCE-L] Theosemiotic, the entire universe as a narrative or argument?

2021-11-02 Thread Gary Richmond
on't), what are your thoughts? Best, Gary R “Let everything happen to you Beauty and terror Just keep going No feeling is final” ― Rainer Maria Rilke *Gary Richmond* *Philosophy and Critical Thinking* *Communication Studies* *LaGuardia College of the City University of New York* _ _ _ _ _

[PEIRCE-L] Peirce abduction-perception hypothesis vs Lakoff conceptual metaphor theory

2021-11-02 Thread alu0101252100
for knowledge (which Peirce pointed out as insufficient) as the fundamental relation of knowledge, in terms of what brings something new to knowledge, so that abduction, as an inferential solution, it would not be necessary. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List"

[PEIRCE-L] Peirce abduction-perception hypothesis vs Lakoff conceptual metaphor theory

2021-11-02 Thread Miguel Pedro Hernández Díaz
for knowledge (which Peirce pointed out as insufficient) as the fundamental relation of knowledge, in terms of what brings something new to knowledge, so that abduction, as an inferential solution, it would not be necessary. -- Saludos, Miguel Pedro Hernández Díaz _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L

RE: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-11-02 Thread gnox
gn and its embodiment (the token, the existing “text”) is another. Your perception of inconsistency is based on the assumption that type and token are not two “signs” but one. Both assumptions are arbitrary <https://gnusystems.ca/TS/rlb.htm#bsrv> . That’s all. Gary f. From: peirce-l-requ..

Aw: [PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis and Time (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-11-01 Thread Helmut Raulien
us of an atom. But that is a red herring, because for every item, which is bigger than this atom, it is sharp, and therefore a discontinuity. "Real" means being valid independently of instantiation, not being valid for atoms, quarks, or strings too. So the individual sign and discontinuities are r

[PEIRCE-L] Continuity of Semiosis and Time (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-10-31 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
te >>> sure, that in semiosis there also are schmitt-trigger-like elements. Of >>> course you can say, that if you look at the sharp edge of a step with a >>> microscope, you can see, that it is a bit rounded, at least with the radius >>> of an atom. But that is a red herri

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-31 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
> these (an exploration in which one ought, if possible, to provide himself > with a guide, or, if that cannot be, to prepare his courage to see one > conception that will have to be mastered peering over the head of another, > and soon another peering over that, and so on, until he shall

Aw: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-31 Thread Helmut Raulien
eans being valid independently of instantiation, not being valid for atoms, quarks, or strings too. So the individual sign and discontinuities are real, not arbitrary, is my opinion.   Best, helmut _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply Al

RE: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-31 Thread gnox
shall begin to think there is to be no end of it, or that life will not be long enough to complete the study) that … GF: That’s a replica, not an interpretant. Gary f. From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu <mailto:peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu> peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-30 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
tep with a >> microscope, you can see, that it is a bit rounded, at least with the radius >> of an atom. But that is a red herring, because for every item, which is >> bigger than this atom, it is sharp, and therefore a discontinuity. "Real" >> means being valid ind

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-30 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
ttered text is only replicable, not translatable, and an interpretant is a > kind of translation, in my view. But maybe this is nothing but a > terminological quibble. > > Gary f. > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All"

RE: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-30 Thread gnox
is only replicable, not translatable, and an interpretant is a kind of translation, in my view. But maybe this is nothing but a terminological quibble. Gary f. From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Jon Alan Schmidt Sent: 29-Oct-21 13:59 To: Peirce-L Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key pr

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-29 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
because for every item, which is > bigger than this atom, it is sharp, and therefore a discontinuity. "Real" > means being valid independently of instantiation, not being valid for > atoms, quarks, or strings too. So the individual sign and discontinuities > are real, not arbitrary

Aw: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-29 Thread Helmut Raulien
e that every sign--including the entire universe, conceived as "a vast representamen" that "is perfused with signs, if it is not composed exclusively of signs"--has two objects and three interpretants, but I did not attempt to sort them out in that post (https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-29 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
rpretants, but I did not attempt to sort them out in that post ( https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2021-10/msg00204.html). The immediate object is *internal *to the sign, the object as represented *in that sign*, while the dynamical object is *external *to the sign, the object as it is *in itself*.

Re: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] RE: A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-29 Thread JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
Gary F, list, That was slightly opaque, but, yes, exactly that - of the language/language-using "bodymind" being united within the process of semiosis (the unity/binding of substances in/through language more generally). Thanks Jack ____ From: pei

RE: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-29 Thread gnox
parts are entia rationis, rather than "bottom-up" such that the parts are real and the whole is an ens rationis. GF: If those two suggestions don’t work, perhaps you can propose some other general principle that we can salvage from this failure of communication. Gary f. From: peirce-l-req

RE: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] RE: A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-29 Thread gnox
ying it. But I guess that was an infelicitous way of expressing the idea. Gary f. From: JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY Sent: 28-Oct-21 13:42 To: 'Peirce-L' ; g...@gnusystems.ca Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts Gary F, List, H

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-28 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
be put into relation to the object of the > *commens*.” As I’ve said earlier in this thread, the *object* of the text > or individual sign has to be also the object of the Thought, and of the > whole dialogue, if the dialogue is genuine. This is the object that the > partners in a dialogue

Re: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] RE: A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-28 Thread JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
lity -- of language as volitional movement which seeks to index objective relations which are never, or quite rarely, contained within language itself? Interesting topic which dovetails nicely with some of my own research right now. Best Jack ________ From: peirce-l-re

RE: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-28 Thread gnox
, “that mind into which the minds of utterer and interpreter have to be fused in order that any communication should take place.” Gary f. From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Jon Alan Schmidt Sent: 27-Oct-21 15:39 Gary F., List: GF: Peirce does not say in CP 4.551

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-27 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
ture posts that *they *write as a result of it. Of course, #1 and #2 are constituent signs of #3 and #4, and each can also be analyzed as consisting of "smaller" signs, which can also be analyzed as consisting of "smaller" signs, and so on *ad infinitum*. Moreover, #3 and #4 are constitue

RE: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-27 Thread gnox
the in this rarified atmosphere of abstractions, so I’d better stop now before I expire. Gary f. From: Gary Richmond Sent: 26-Oct-21 17:50 To: Peirce-L Cc: Gary Fuhrman ; Jon Alan Schmidt Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts Ga

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-26 Thread Gary Richmond
mething to do with every mind being a sign, > as well. The uttered sign and each interpreter's mind "are so connected > that ... [the] two of them can have one interpretant" (CP 4.550, 1906). > This "co-determined" dynamical interpretant is different for each > interprete

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-26 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
nnected > that ... [the] two of them can have one interpretant" (CP 4.550, 1906). > This "co-determined" dynamical interpretant is different for each > interpreter because connecting the same uttered sign with a different > interpreter's mind results in a system that constitute

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Phaneroscopic Analysis (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-10-26 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
mar of “should”. > > In short, I find these comments disappointingly shallow, given the GRAVITY > of the assertion of the sentence. > > John: could you search for some significant SCIENTIFIC arguments that > address the structures of realism and addresses the foundational issues > essential t

RE: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-26 Thread gnox
es a different new sign. Gary f. From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Jon Alan Schmidt Sent: 25-Oct-21 19:04 To: Peirce-L Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts Gary F., Helmut, List: Your longer Peirce quotation below

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Phaneroscopic Analysis (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-10-26 Thread Jerry LR Chandler
as well as a symbolic obligatory logic is essential to such a > nomological science, such as the perplex numbers in relation to the > compositions of organic mathematical symbols. > > I will close by expressing a revealing but abstractly-encoded tease. Beware > of Skolemization! > >

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-25 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
now have. All *intentions* are future-oriented, and that dynamic > interpretant was his way of *aiming at* the Final Interpretant of the > whole dialogue which included his text. He really believed that there is > such a “thing” as Truth, and I think his work deserves our respect and > cl

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Phaneroscopic Analysis (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-10-25 Thread Jerry LR Chandler
such as the perplex numbers in relation to the compositions of organic mathematical symbols. I will close by expressing a revealing but abstractly-encoded tease. Beware of Skolemization! Cheers Jerry_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All"

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Phaneroscopic Analysis (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-10-25 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
th > hypo-theses and hyper-theses . > > As I have previously asserted, I believe that the polynomial index of > logical factors as well as a symbolic obligatory logic is essential to such > a nomological science, such as the perplex numbers in relation to the > compositions of

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Phaneroscopic Analysis (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-10-25 Thread gnox
We should mention that John Sowa quoted part of R 602 back on August 16 (Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 25 (mail-archive.com) <https://www.mail-archive.com/peirce-l@list.iupui.edu/msg15939.html> ), claiming that it contradicted “ADT’s slide 25”. There was some fol

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Phaneroscopic Analysis (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-10-25 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
..End > of quote > ........ > > I think you have noted that phaneroscopy is well present in this > classification; moreover, its definition leaves no doubt about Hegel's > phenomenology.

Aw: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-25 Thread Helmut Raulien
. } A journey of a thousand miles starts under one's feet. [Tao Te Ching 64 (Feng/English) { https://gnusystems.ca/wp/ }{ living the time   From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Jon Alan Schmidt Sent: 24-Oct-21 16:34 To: Peirce-L Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle

RE: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-25 Thread gnox
e From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Jon Alan Schmidt Sent: 24-Oct-21 16:34 To: Peirce-L Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts Gary F., List: I apologize for the length of this post, but the thread is already getting a

[PEIRCE-L] Phaneroscopic Analysis (was A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts)

2021-10-24 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
author's (intentional interpreter's) intended meaning as > expressed in the text" (Gary R), are in fact proposing to us that we play > a Chinese fantasmatic game, the rules of which they have long been trying > to establish. > > Regards, > Robert Marty >

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-24 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
mmediate object and interpretant, being internal to the sign, are also internal to this "commind." GF: If a semiosic process is *continuous*, as you have argued in another thread, then the boundaries between sign and interpretant are artifacts of analysis: they are not as real as t

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-24 Thread Jerry Rhee
nechist semiotician, then, there should > be no problem seeing an Intentional Interpretant as *also* an Immediate > Interpretant internal to the sign. The “boundaries” between signs, like > those between organisms and their environments, are permeable by nature. > > > > Gary f.

[PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-24 Thread Edwina Taborsky
as any other? Best, Gary R “LET EVERYTHING HAPPEN TO YOU BEAUTY AND TERROR JUST KEEP GOING NO FEELING IS FINAL” ― RAINER MARIA RILKE Gary Richmond Philosophy and Critical ThinkingCommunication StudiesLaGuardia College of the City University of New York _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L s

RE: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-24 Thread gnox
Interpretant internal to the sign. The “boundaries” between signs, like those between organisms and their environments, are permeable by nature. Gary f. From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Jon Alan Schmidt Sent: 23-Oct-21 19:10 To: Peirce-L Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key

Re: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-24 Thread JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
Gary, List Thanks, that's very well written. I agree with much of this more nuanced interpretation. Jack From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu on behalf of g...@gnusystems.ca Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 2:57 PM To: 'Peirce-L' Subject: RE: [PEIRCE-L

RE: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-24 Thread gnox
t with nothing to go on except the reaction to the text determined by his own habits and intuitions. This is what we call a "subjective" reading. Gary f. From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY Sent: 23-Oct-21 19:36 To: Peirce-L ; Gary Richmond Subject: R

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-24 Thread robert marty
; other? > > Best, > > Gary R > > “Let everything happen to you > Beauty and terror > Just keep going > No feeling is final” > ― Rainer Maria Rilke > > *Gary Richmond* > *Philosophy and Critical Thinking* > *Communication Studies* > *LaGuardia College of the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-23 Thread JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
lennia is not enough to produce "objective" scholarly consensus, then what pragmatic use does the "final interpretant" actually have? Jack From: JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2021 12:22 AM To: Peirce-L ; Gary Richmond

Re: [PEIRCE-L] [EXTERNAL] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-23 Thread JACK ROBERT KELLY CODY
f as being better than others - but I'm not "sold" on the "final interpretant" of Peirce in a semeiotic system wherein all evolves continuously (what is final?). Best Jack ________ From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu on behalf of Gary Richmond Sent:

Re: [PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-23 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
o you > Beauty and terror > Just keep going > No feeling is final” > ― Rainer Maria Rilke > *Gary Richmond* > *Philosophy and Critical Thinking* > *Communication Studies* > *LaGuardia College of the City University of New York* > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click

[PEIRCE-L] A key principle of normative semeiotic for interpreting texts

2021-10-23 Thread Gary Richmond
College of the City University of New York* _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce and Post Peirce

2021-10-21 Thread gnox
f. From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Jon Alan Schmidt Sent: 20-Oct-21 18:06 To: Peirce-L Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce and Post Peirce Margaretha, List: MH: Popper introduced what is now called the Three-Worlds Hypothesis. It is a heuristic advising people to caref

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Instinct, intuition and semiosis

2021-10-20 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
somehow co-evolved such that neither > is primordial, is not *Peirce's *cosmology. Each of these is apparently a > Peirce-*inspired *analytic framework, but none can rightly be labeled as > *THE* Peircean analytic framework--i.e., *Peirce's *analytic framework. > > How can I assert

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce and Post Peirce

2021-10-20 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
enberg!) > https://medium.com/@davegray/the-roots-of-liminal-thinking-3be4bea6fd63 > > The one thing that is missing on this blog is an in-depth discussion of > the role of metaphors in it all. > > ~ Margaretha H. > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "

[PEIRCE-L] Semiosic Synechism (was Connected Signs Theorem)

2021-10-20 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
ally with respect to time, please see sections 5-7 of my paper, "Temporal Synechism: A Peircean Philosophy of Time" (https://rdcu.be/b9xVm). Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - t

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Classifications of the Sciences (was Should we start a new email list)

2021-10-20 Thread robert marty
Standpoint >>> >>> α in individuals, men; spiritual >>> intelligences, animals >>> >>> β in families >>> >>> γ in communities of races >>> ___ THE END OF THE FIRS

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Classifications of the Sciences (was Should we start a new email list)

2021-10-19 Thread Gary Richmond
into *three* parts, the first much the >> smallest, the last much the largest. They are >> >> I. *Mathematics,* the study of *ideal constructions* independently of >> the question of their real existence. >> >> II*. Empirics*, or *Phenomenolog*y, the study of *phenomena* with the >> purpose of identifying their forms

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Instinct, intuition and semiosis

2021-10-19 Thread Edwina Taborsky
ach of these is apparently a > Peirce-inspired analytic framework, but none can rightly be labeled as THE > Peircean analytic framework--i.e., Peirce's analytic framework. > > How can I assert this so confidently? Because I generally agree with the > following past remarks by John Sowa. &

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Instinct, intuition and semiosis

2021-10-19 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
y a Peirce-*inspired *analytic framework, but none can rightly be labeled as *THE* Peircean analytic framework--i.e., *Peirce's *analytic framework. How can I assert this so confidently? Because I generally agree with the following past remarks by John Sowa. JFS (https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/pei

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Classifications of the Sciences (was Should we start a new email list)

2021-10-19 Thread Jon Alan Schmidt
or the study of the universal characters of phenomena. > > 2.* Nomology*, or the study of those characters of phenomena which though > not universal, belong to whole classes of phenomena, and the attempt to > account for them by connecting them with the universal laws which > philoso

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Classifications of the Sciences (was Shouldwe start a new email list)

2021-10-19 Thread robert marty
mte's principle. But I believe that it's better to > go back to an updated version of 1345. > > There is, of course, much more to say about all these issues. > > John > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L

Re: [PEIRCE-L] 50,000 MS pages to be digitized

2021-10-19 Thread Gary Richmond
> their opinion about what Peirce meant, intended, or implied is correct. > Peirce himself insisted that he was fallible. All our opinions about what > Peirce intended are fallible opinions about a person who was fallible. > > John > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > ► PEIRCE-L subscribers:

[PEIRCE-L] Fwd: [biosemiotics:9367] GIBS 2022 CFP

2021-10-19 Thread Gary Richmond
Linguistics *Křížkovského 14 771 80 Olomouc Czech Republic* ludmila.lack...@upol.cz | www.upol.cz _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ►

[PEIRCE-L] 50,000 MS pages to be digitized

2021-10-19 Thread sowa @bestweb.net
or implied is correct. Peirce himself insisted that he was fallible. All our opinions about what Peirce intended are fallible opinions about a person who was fallible. John _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L t

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Classifications of the Sciences (was Shouldwe start a new email list)

2021-10-19 Thread Bernard Morand
principles  violates Comte's principle.  But I believe that it's better to go back to an updated version of 1345. There is, of course,  much more to say about all these issues. John _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIR

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Classifications of the Sciences (was Shouldwe start a new email list)

2021-10-18 Thread sowa @bestweb.net
aneroscopy to include some normative principles violates Comte's principle. But I believe that it's better to go back to an updated version of 1345. There is, of course, much more to say about all these issues. John _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Theme One • A Program Of Inquiry

2021-10-18 Thread Jon Awbrey
, in Interactive Real Time. Resource • Survey of Theme One Program https://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2020/08/28/survey-of-theme-one-program-3/ Regards, Jon _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIR

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Classifications of the Sciences (was Should we start a new email list)

2021-10-18 Thread robert marty
menology/phaneroscopy as the first > *positive > *science, as well as esthetics and ethics as the first two *normative > *sciences. > Was this change a mistake on Peirce's part? Evidently Bernard thinks so. > > BM (https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2021-10/msg00151.html):

[PEIRCE-L] Message from the List moderator

2021-10-18 Thread Gary Richmond
Today I was reminded by Ben Udell, the co-manager of Peirce-L, that there were times when Joe Ransdell would suggest a limit on messages sent per day. Because of the flood of messages posted to the List (many regarding the current controversies) we think that it's time to make that suggestion

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce and Post Peirce

2021-10-18 Thread Margaretha Hendrickx
intaining the focus on substance rather than highlighting a perceived > personal slight. > > GF (https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2018-08/msg00019.html): *Do > not take offense*. If nobody takes offense, nobody can *give *offense, > even if they are trying to. Those

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Classifications of the Sciences (was Should we start a new email list)

2021-10-18 Thread Bernard Morand
(https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2021-10/msg00151.html <https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2021-10/msg00151.html>): On the contrary what has been suggested is to find a place for an unknown thing into a pretty trichotomy a priori derived from the logic o

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Should we start a new email list (was Peirce's contributions to the 21st c

2021-10-18 Thread Margaretha Hendrickx
e Bible... or with The > Capital... and here we are! > > Hope that a creation of a new List will overcome this retrograde positions > that don't help anyone... not even the sacred memory of Peirce himself. > All the best > Claudio > > sowa @bestweb.net escribió el 15/10/2021 a la

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Instinct, intuition and semiosis

2021-10-18 Thread Edwina Taborsky
\',\'\',\'\',\'\') _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Instinct, intuition and semiosis

2021-10-18 Thread Edwina Taborsky
us.ca/javascript:top.opencompose(\'tabor...@primus.ca\',\'\',\'\',\'\') [2] http://webmail.primus.ca/javascript:top.opencompose(\'jonalanschm...@gmail.com\',\'\',\'\',\'\') [3] http://www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt [4] http://twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on &qu

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Should we start a new email list (was Peirce's contributions to the 21st c

2021-10-18 Thread Edwina Taborsky
ograde positions that don't help anyone... not even the sacred memory of Peirce himself. All the best Claudio sowa @bestweb.net escribió el 15/10/2021 a las 19:02: List, On Thursday, I sent the note below to

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