Re: [PEDA] recovering data
At 09:38 AM 5/7/2002 -0500, David VanHorn wrote: >>Stop! Don't confuse the terms! > >I'm not confused. This has gotten a tad out of hand. The subject of this list is Protel software, not RAID systems or whether person A or person B is or is not confused. A RAID discussion is peripherally related, the discussion of persons is completely outside. There is an open topic list to which such discussions can be taken. As to the RAID topic, it is quite obvious that there are hazards against which a RAID drive will fail to protect. A properly designed backup system protects against nearly every hazard; however, there may be *some* lost data and there *will* be lost time. There are still hazards against which a backup system will fail to protect unless *all* data is kept permanently. >>A raid system is definitly NOT a backup, it's something like a fail safe >>system! >>It protects ONLY against hardware failture and can't replace a backup system. This was 100% true if his terms are understood according to his intention. >Does it protect against failures of the raid controller? >Does it protect against the OS instructing the controller to destroy your >data? Failure of the RAID controller may or may not corrupt the data. OS "Failure" (which may not be failure of the OS itself but of system security or operator error) is a necessary hazard, i.e., there is no way to absolutely protect against it; but frequent backups with a long trail will do well. But the question of the use of a raid controller is not based on elimination of backups. Rather it is a cost\benefit analysis that balances the cost of the system against the expected loss of operating time from hard drive failure. >>With a raid level 5 it is possible to work further if one (and only one >>of at least three) of the hard drives fails. > >So you cube your odds of having a drive fail, to protect yourself from >that failure, assuming the OS or the applications don't barf all over the >data first? I know a little about probability theory, though I am certainly short of being an expert. The odds of having a drive fail increase but are not cubed, rather they are -- aproximately -- added. I.e., a .001 probability of a single drive failing, by itself, would become, for the probability that one or more drives out of three fail, the compliment of the probability that no drives out of three fail, i.e. 1 - (.999)^3, which is 0.002997001. Thus the average cost of replacing a failed disk during the period of usage is almost tripled. But hard drives are cheap. Unless the disk failures have a common cause, such as a fire or poor system design overheating the drives, the probabilities should be independent, which is why they are cubed when the events must be simultaneous. However, the chance of a system failure due to a simultaneous failure (the same day) of more than one disk become much, much smaller. The sum of the probabilities of all possibilities (0 drives fail, 1 drive fail, 2 drives fail, and 3 drives fail) must be 1, i.e., certainty. We have the first above, the last is 0.1. Because there are three equally probable ways that one drive alone can fail, the probability of one and only one drive failing becomes three times the probability of each specific condition (i.e. F00, 0F0, and 00F), which is 0.001 * 0.999 * 0.999). This is 0.002994003. Adding the probability of three failures, this becomes 0.002994004. We must subtract this from the probability that one or more drives fail to get the probability that two or more fail. This is 0.02997. I.e., adding two drives has reduced the probability of system failure due to hard drive failure from one in one thousand per day to three in one million. >Raid was a good idea in 1980, when hard drives were somewhat >unreliable. I've had them fail, as have we all.. However, every OS I've >run in the windows line has caused way more problems. Way more problems, yes, but not way more massive loss of data. It is unusual for an OS failure (i.e. bug) to cause massive loss of data. There are virus that will format your drives, of course. If a hard drive fails all you have is the backups. No one has suggested RAID as a substitute for backups, unless perhaps the array is across a network with computers in different locations. That isn't ordinarily called RAID, if I am correct Rather RAID is a device for reducing down time as well as the time to restore lost data from a single drive failure. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
My main machine is an Athlon 2000, 1G ram on a Soyo Dragon+ motherboard, with two Maxtor 100G drives, a DVD drive, and CDRW. I have the raid functions off, and have each drive on it's own controller (four controllers) I run XP pro. The whole thing is wrapped up in a Koolance case, with HD cooler for the two hard drives. This keeps them at essentially room temperature. No CPU fan to silently die, and no thick coating of insulating dust on the CPU heatsink. :) My other machines are conventionally cooled. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
At 05:12 PM 5/7/2002 +0200, Rene Tschaggelar wrote: >I have about one drive crash, physical crash, per year. Time to switch vendors! I run Maxtor drives, and over the last couple years have had zero problems. That's on six drives running 24/7. It's no data center, but it's a data point. >A raid drive crash is fixed by replacing the hot spare drive and >ordering a new one. >A non-raid drive crash takes me at least 3 days to install a new >drive, reinstall the OS, reinstall the software, reinstall the backup. >I never had a controller crash in 20 years. I do have a spare raid >controller though. How would you tell? A fried board would be one thing, but a controller card is a processor on it's own, and it can crash, causing bad data to be written to one or more drives. >And since WinNT I never had wrong data due to the OS. I've not run NT. I'm on XP now, which is not 100% reliable, but is much less crashy than 98 or ME. >I admit a raid is not a backup though Given. My backups go in the mail on a CDROM. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
> I have about one drive crash, physical crash, per year. > I'm convinced the technology the drives are built on is less reliable > that 10 years ago. It may be that the pressure to deliver makes > these companies deliver too quick. Interesting. My experience is exactly the opposite. I can't remember the last time I had a hard drive crash (I hope fate is not reading this message!). That is not to say it hasn't happened - I just can't remember the year (sometime back in the 80's?). We have about 8 PCs at the office, 1 laptop, 1 PC at my home. We do periodic backups, but not as disciplined as we should be. The PCs are mostly old, only 1 of them is newer than 2 years! We believe in wringing everything possible out of PCs before scrapping them. Perhaps the hardware is getting too much of the blame. The OS (especially Windows) can trash a partition when a virus attacks, or a "challenging" app such as Protel goes nuts. Or maybe you are too rough with them? We never kick or pound on our PCs (even though I want to sometimes!). And we never allow smoking around them. True story - I know a woman who always smokes when working at her PC. She has more hard drive failures than anyone I have ever heard of - about 9-12 months is all she gets from them. She buys a new computer each time. Her previous PC had a hard drive failure and all 3 fans (CPU, case front, and power supply) were inoperable. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: "Rene Tschaggelar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > I have about one drive crash, physical crash, per year. > I'm convinced the technology the drives are built on is less reliable > that 10 years ago. It may be that the pressure to deliver makes > these companies deliver too quick. > > Those drives from the 80-ies were reliable, some are still working, > even though 100MBytes appear a bit small. > > A raid drive crash is fixed by replacing the hot spare drive and > ordering a new one. > A non-raid drive crash takes me at least 3 days to install a new > drive, > reinstall the OS, reinstall the software, reinstall the backup. > > I never had a controller crash in 20 years. I do have a spare raid > controller though. > And since WinNT I never had wrong data due to the OS. > > I admit a raid is not a backup though > > Rene > > > David VanHorn wrote: > > > > > > > >Stop! Don't confuse the terms! > > > > I'm not confused. > > > > >A raid system is definitly NOT a backup, it's something like a fail safe > > >system! > > >It protects ONLY against hardware failture and can't replace a backup system. > > > > Does it protect against failures of the raid controller? > > Does it protect against the OS instructing the controller to destroy your data? > > > > >With a raid level 5 it is possible to work further if one (and only one of > > >at least three) of the hard drives fails. > > > > So you cube your odds of having a drive fail, to protect yourself from that > > failure, assuming the OS or the applications don't barf all over the data > > first? > > > > Raid was a good idea in 1980, when hard drives were somewhat > > unreliable. I've had them fail, as have we all.. However, every OS I've > > run in the windows line has caused way more problems. > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
- Original Message - From: "David VanHorn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > > > >Stop! Don't confuse the terms! > > I'm not confused. > > >A raid system is definitly NOT a backup, it's something like a fail safe > >system! > >It protects ONLY against hardware failture and can't replace a backup system. > > Does it protect against failures of the raid controller? > Does it protect against the OS instructing the controller to destroy your data? > > >With a raid level 5 it is possible to work further if one (and only one of > >at least three) of the hard drives fails. > > So you cube your odds of having a drive fail, to protect yourself from that > failure, assuming the OS or the applications don't barf all over the data > first? > Not to be nitpicking and generally agree with you Dave, however, there is one single issue - you are replacing a catastrophic failure mode with a recoverable error by using RAID . You're cubing your odds of having a (recoverable) error vs. the odds of having a catastrophic non-recoverable error . Which one do you prefer ? It makes the failure more of a warning sign than a terrible event . Replace the faulty drive before you have more warning signs and you're ok. Of course, there's still the question of the probability of one of those recoverable errors to be not so recoverable after all , and if it's more or less probable than the unrecoverable error of the single drive we started with ;) regards, Matt Tudor, MSEE - RF Design http://www.gigahertzelectronics.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
I have about one drive crash, physical crash, per year. I'm convinced the technology the drives are built on is less reliable that 10 years ago. It may be that the pressure to deliver makes these companies deliver too quick. Those drives from the 80-ies were reliable, some are still working, even though 100MBytes appear a bit small. A raid drive crash is fixed by replacing the hot spare drive and ordering a new one. A non-raid drive crash takes me at least 3 days to install a new drive, reinstall the OS, reinstall the software, reinstall the backup. I never had a controller crash in 20 years. I do have a spare raid controller though. And since WinNT I never had wrong data due to the OS. I admit a raid is not a backup though Rene David VanHorn wrote: > > > > >Stop! Don't confuse the terms! > > I'm not confused. > > >A raid system is definitly NOT a backup, it's something like a fail safe > >system! > >It protects ONLY against hardware failture and can't replace a backup system. > > Does it protect against failures of the raid controller? > Does it protect against the OS instructing the controller to destroy your data? > > >With a raid level 5 it is possible to work further if one (and only one of > >at least three) of the hard drives fails. > > So you cube your odds of having a drive fail, to protect yourself from that > failure, assuming the OS or the applications don't barf all over the data > first? > > Raid was a good idea in 1980, when hard drives were somewhat > unreliable. I've had them fail, as have we all.. However, every OS I've > run in the windows line has caused way more problems. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
> >Stop! Don't confuse the terms! I'm not confused. >A raid system is definitly NOT a backup, it's something like a fail safe >system! >It protects ONLY against hardware failture and can't replace a backup system. Does it protect against failures of the raid controller? Does it protect against the OS instructing the controller to destroy your data? >With a raid level 5 it is possible to work further if one (and only one of >at least three) of the hard drives fails. So you cube your odds of having a drive fail, to protect yourself from that failure, assuming the OS or the applications don't barf all over the data first? Raid was a good idea in 1980, when hard drives were somewhat unreliable. I've had them fail, as have we all.. However, every OS I've run in the windows line has caused way more problems. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
>I don't understand your comment. I didn't ask any questions >to have answered. >You said: "...Just what might have happened to you..." Nothing happened to me. It was a "clever" attempt at a dig. See. Nyah...See? aj1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
At 02:24 07.05.02 -0500, you wrote: >The basic assumptions of raid systems seem flawed. > >Is a hard drive today, less reliable than it's controller, or the OS and >applications? > >If the OS or app crashes, and tells the controller to write junk, then you >have a stack of nice error correcting junk. Stop! Don't confuse the terms! A raid system is definitly NOT a backup, it's something like a fail safe system! It protects ONLY against hardware failture and can't replace a backup system. With a raid level 5 it is possible to work further if one (and only one of at least three) of the hard drives fails. A well designed backup system with some history and a safe place for the tapes protects you from junk data after a crash or an user error. Or a fire. Or 1 meter wather in the office, or [insert your favorite desaster]. If you like to feel reasonably save, both of the systems are needed. I like to feel save and have both, a raid level 5 and a daily backup of the server and a fire proof save for the tapes. Edi + IH electronic+ Phone: ++41 52 320 90 00 + + Edi Im Hof + Fax: ++41 52 320 90 04 + + Doernlerstrasse 1, Sulz + URL: http://www.ihe.ch + + CH-8544 Rickenbach-Attikon + E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] + + Switzerland + + * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
I would guess the drive is the most failure prone piece in the system. That's only with my personal experience, but I've had dozens of systems over the last 15 years (I'm only counting the ones with hard drives :) and the drive is the thing that always craps out. The motherboard and cards rarely fail. (Except for network cards..I think they get zapped) But yeah, your right...if the os tell it to write trash, you only recover trash... Ton > -Original Message- > From: David VanHorn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:25 AM > To: Protel EDA Forum; Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > > > > The basic assumptions of raid systems seem flawed. > > Is a hard drive today, less reliable than it's controller, or the OS and > applications? > > If the OS or app crashes, and tells the controller to write junk, > then you > have a stack of nice error correcting junk. > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
The basic assumptions of raid systems seem flawed. Is a hard drive today, less reliable than it's controller, or the OS and applications? If the OS or app crashes, and tells the controller to write junk, then you have a stack of nice error correcting junk. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
I don't understand your comment. I didn't ask any questions to have answered. You said: "...Just what might have happened to you..." Nothing happened to me. Just a note: I see people making raid systems and they stack 5 or 6 drives on top of each other with NO cooling and these things are like frying pans. No wonder when all 6 drives die at roughly the same time! They think they are safe when in fact they are killing their drives prematurely. Tony > -Original Message- > From: Igor Gmitrovic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 4:08 PM > To: 'Protel EDA Forum' > Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > > Here is your answer Tony. Just what might have happened to you. I have > nothing further. > > Igor > > -Original Message- > From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, 30 April 2002 6:26 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > > You're right Tony > > I do make backups just not as often as you do. I experience at least > one drive crash per year, meaning I'm prepared. While I could > run server-centered I just don't have the confidence in the server. > I have raid5 array on the server but the software fails on > multiple copy operations at the same time. Perhaps a glitch in > setting up samba ? > > While at the last crash, Aug2000, I justified the expense of a > 6-drive Raid5, I might consider daily backup from now on. > About a week is lost on this drive this time. > > Is there a recommended software that does backup based on disk copy > operations, no need for zipping. I hate tapes, they are no up to > the job. The software should find the differences. Meaning find > changed files. > Don't fail on open files ? Doesn't have to do open files though. > Strictly no database orientation, meaning not copying into one > big blob, but simple directory-directory copying with some > auto-naming ? > > Rene > > Tony Karavidas wrote: > > > > Igor, I know why people come here. I've helped out plenty of times (and > > asked quite a few questions too) But I don't do dumb things and then ask > how > > to get out of hot water. > > > > I don't know if you read what Rene wrote, but Rene said his drive > CRASHED!!! > > That almost ALWAYS means it gets thrown out, or reformatted or if they > have > > , sent in for data recovery services. > > > > I didn't call him stupid, I said: "...that was plain stupid." If anyone > on > > this list is making a living with their computer and NOT > backing up their > > data, they are *being* STUPID! There is a distinction between the two. > > > > There is nothing to take back...how about someone accepting they screwed > > up?? His actions aren't wrong to me, they are wrong to an > entire industry > of > > computer professionals. And if anyone else is silently saying to > themselves > > 'I don't back up either' well then you ought to learn a lesson > from Rene's > > crashed drive... > > > > I triple backup because my livelyhood depends on it! I have two > drives in > my > > machine that get mirrored. This covers me from a drive crash or even an > > accidental file overwrite. On a weekly basis, I copy my data to another > > machine, so if my drive controller on this machine screws up and trashes > > both drives, I've only lost a week max. I don't screw around with tape > > anymore because it's slow and I didn't do it often enough. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Here is your answer Tony. Just what might have happened to you. I have nothing further. Igor -Original Message- From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 30 April 2002 6:26 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data You're right Tony I do make backups just not as often as you do. I experience at least one drive crash per year, meaning I'm prepared. While I could run server-centered I just don't have the confidence in the server. I have raid5 array on the server but the software fails on multiple copy operations at the same time. Perhaps a glitch in setting up samba ? While at the last crash, Aug2000, I justified the expense of a 6-drive Raid5, I might consider daily backup from now on. About a week is lost on this drive this time. Is there a recommended software that does backup based on disk copy operations, no need for zipping. I hate tapes, they are no up to the job. The software should find the differences. Meaning find changed files. Don't fail on open files ? Doesn't have to do open files though. Strictly no database orientation, meaning not copying into one big blob, but simple directory-directory copying with some auto-naming ? Rene Tony Karavidas wrote: > > Igor, I know why people come here. I've helped out plenty of times (and > asked quite a few questions too) But I don't do dumb things and then ask how > to get out of hot water. > > I don't know if you read what Rene wrote, but Rene said his drive CRASHED!!! > That almost ALWAYS means it gets thrown out, or reformatted or if they have > , sent in for data recovery services. > > I didn't call him stupid, I said: "...that was plain stupid." If anyone on > this list is making a living with their computer and NOT backing up their > data, they are *being* STUPID! There is a distinction between the two. > > There is nothing to take back...how about someone accepting they screwed > up?? His actions aren't wrong to me, they are wrong to an entire industry of > computer professionals. And if anyone else is silently saying to themselves > 'I don't back up either' well then you ought to learn a lesson from Rene's > crashed drive... > > I triple backup because my livelyhood depends on it! I have two drives in my > machine that get mirrored. This covers me from a drive crash or even an > accidental file overwrite. On a weekly basis, I copy my data to another > machine, so if my drive controller on this machine screws up and trashes > both drives, I've only lost a week max. I don't screw around with tape > anymore because it's slow and I didn't do it often enough. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
On the subject of CD-R lifetimes, Kodak has done a lot of work on this subject. See http://www.kodak.com/US/en/digital/cdr/tech/ for the details. Paul > > There is an interesting but article on degrading disks: > http://www.roxio.com/en/support/discs/dodiscsdegrade.html > > Not scientific but some interesting words nonetheless. There is > suggestions about, again some doubt as to the sample sizes and method of > testing, that say that a cheap CD-R will have order of 2 year > lifetime. Not that much really. I repeat that the work is not very > conclusive so it may be scare mongering - however it does give pause for > thought. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
its a brand new system i also gave up on QIC and Ditto, etc. i got this because the CDR method was too haphazard and there is no good way to organize all the discs and maintain the 'habit' also sifting through them to find something is pretty tedious the drive is called Onstream ADR2 (the '2' is important) IDE internal the tapes say 60G, i think that is a compressed figure, it is hardware compression it is very fast for a tape, it reads a bunch of tracks in parallel or something like that the bundled software is Tapeware at first i thought it was very complicated but that was because i was trying too hard just let it do what it wants with the wizards and it keeps track of what tapes you are putting in etc. there are a lot of backup terms and objects and containers and junk like that but as i said they really tried to make it easy if you let it the drive and the software and one tape were about $475 i have it running an incremental every night at 10PM (having once done a full) of course it is all configurable including security features this is high end software ported down to this level i have only had it a short while so caveat emptor, but it was recommended by my long time and valued local white box builder i did a few test restores and it worked you can right click on a file name and view and select from all of the backed up instances of the same file (the file box is way too small though hopefully they will fix that) all of the operations are very fast since they work off a database on your hd of course this can be rebuilt from your tapes beware though! the bundled software is only for a single workstation, you have to give them more $$ for it to work on other machines on the network you can install the full workgroup version and it will time out after 30 days unless you pony up if you keep most of your work on one system you can stay with the bundled version and just dump stuff from other machines on that one periodically Dennis Saputelli Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: > > Dennis: > > What is the make and model of tape drive you bought? > > It will be interesting to see how long the drive works reliably before it > starts having read errors. In my experience with QIC and Ditto drives, > after a while the tape drives have too many read errors. Even after > cleaning the heads, they still have problems. > > I agree about the version issue. Why doesn't someone write good (and cheap) > backup software for non-tape media? The same thing could be done for hard > drives, CD-R/RW, networked storage, etc. > > I agree about not using the backup drive in the same PC box as the work > drive. Power supply meltdowns, viruses, etc. can whack both drives > instantly. > > Best regards, > Ivan Baggett > Bagotronix Inc. > website: www.bagotronix.com > > - Original Message - > From: "Dennis Saputelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:46 PM > Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > > i just got a tape drive IDE internal > > b4 you trash tape this one is pretty cool > > IDE 30/60gig > > Tapeware software runs in background and makes an incremental b/u every > > night unattended > > every version of every file is on there and it is very fast > > pretty easy to retrieve > > > > with the hard drive method its hard to get all the old versions > > sometimes the older backup is the better one > > > > in pc mag a columnist recommends the new USB external hard drives > > about $250 for 20+G > > hard to beat > > > > using a second internal hard drive on the same box is not a great idea > > i've seen more than one total box meltdown take out both drives > > > > Dennis Saputelli > > -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
On 12:53 PM 30/04/2002 -0400, Bagotronix Tech Support said: ><..snip..> >I don't understand Matt's claim that CD's aren't reliable. If you handle >them carefully (don't use them as coasters and keep your greasy fingers off >the optical surface) they are very reliable. There is an interesting but article on degrading disks: http://www.roxio.com/en/support/discs/dodiscsdegrade.html Not scientific but some interesting words nonetheless. There is suggestions about, again some doubt as to the sample sizes and method of testing, that say that a cheap CD-R will have order of 2 year lifetime. Not that much really. I repeat that the work is not very conclusive so it may be scare mongering - however it does give pause for thought. ><..snip..>Since Protel DDBs are so huge now, fitting a large project on >one CD-R might >be a problem. I have yet to see good backup software that will span a >backup across multiple CD-R. Anyone know of one? IMO, be careful of proprietary software that may or may not be around in a few years time for the new beaut OS you have. Personally I prefer either software I have written myself (and backed up the source) or very commonly used utilities (zip) that are very unlikely to become unsupported. There are plenty of file splitting programs around - some of these allow recombination with the DOS copy command. Others require a joining program. Make sure you also backup whatever programs you split and join the files with. >Here is my idea of the ultimate backup technique: use a removable hard >drive in a Linux box on your Samba network. Backup your files to that Linux >box and take the drive home or store it in a rental storage facility. When >you back up your Windows box, don't share the Linux drive with your Windows >box, but share the Windows drive with your Linux box. That way if you get a >virus on your Windows box, it cannot corrupt anything on the Linux box. I >haven't tried it, but it would be really cool to set up the Linux cron >daemon to periodically copy changed files from your Windows box to your >Linux box, making the backup automatic. Or use the AT service or Scheduled Task function of Windows to do the same - though I suspect that the cron job on Linux may be more reliable - at least it works through daylight saving change-overs. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
On 09:46 AM 30/04/2002 -0700, Dennis Saputelli said:
><..snip..>
>with the hard drive method its hard to get all the old versions
>sometimes the older backup is the better one
That is why I zip into a file with the date in the name.
1) I get daily backups
2) I do not need any proprietary software to open the backups
3) I can easily test the integrity of the backup by running a Zip test on
the archive
4) I can easily check for corruption of the backup as the zip is encoded
with a 32-bit checksum.
5) There are any number of zip searching and explorer-like viewers
available, searching for a particular file is not excessively difficult -
and operates at disk rather than tape speed.
I am nervous of ZIP drives/disks having lost one drive and several disks to
the "Click-of-death" track-0 problem - but I s'pose these issues have been
fixed in later drives. I do use them for transport between non-connected
machines and to clients offices.
For those interested under Win2k (may work under WinNT as well - not sure)
the following batch command will create an environment variable
(ArcFileName) something like "Arc2002-03-18.zip":
for /f "tokens=2-4 delims=/ " %%a in ('DATE/T') do set
ArcFileName=Arc%%c-%%b-%%a
A small program can be used to do something similar under Win 95/98.
This environment variable is then combined with the archive type (DAILY,
WEEKLY, MONHTLY) and the machine name to form a zip file name that is
unique in date, machine and type. From there is easy to run whatever
scripting you want. The above name could be used to create a directory
somewhere into which xcopy is simply used to the files - if you
wanted. Though I think zipping offers a number of advantages.
I may document this process and put it (and the scripts) on my www site for
others to make use of as they wish - sometime. Maybe we could document a
whole suite of different backup systems and scripts to allow others to make
a choice?
Ian Wilson
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Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Rene Tschaggelar wrote: > It happened a project disappeared ... > > I was able to recover the gerber files and loaded them into > Camtastic 2000. Exporting the netlist somehow failed. > A .net was created, consisting of 2 lines : > % coordinates > % end > Beside that camtastic appears to be a 16 bit toy not being able > to generate long filenames... > > While I can recover the schematic by other means the work was the > pcb layout. Is there a way to recover the pcb file ? > I assumed the netlist together with the schematic, perhaps > with back annotate should come close. Both the schematic and the PCB are occasionally written to the same directory the DDB file is in. With luck, a backup tape, CD or whatever may have captured one of these files near the end of the manual work. Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
At 12:53 PM 4/30/2002 -0400, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: >Since Protel DDBs are so huge now, fitting a large project on one CD-R might >be a problem. Protel DDBs get large if one does not empty trash and compact the database. The latter is the most important and the least visible problem, the only symptom of failing to compact is that the file gets larger, and larger, and larger. If I am correct, the Access database being used does not automatically recover space when a file is deleted. That's what the compaction tool is for. I have 99SE set to automatically compact every database when it is closed. A minor nuisance sometimes, it takes a little longer to close the database. Or one can manually compact from the Client menu. (That funny down-arrow in the upper left hand corner of the screen) A while back, I still was using a 56K dialup actually running about 30K, I got a very, very large ddb from a client. After compaction, it was less than one-tenth the size. It would take a truly large project to be too big to fit on a CD after being cleaned up and compacted. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Hi Ivan >>Since Protel DDBs are so huge now, fitting a large project on one CD-R might >>be a problem. I have yet to see good backup software that will span a >>backup across multiple CD-R. Anyone know of one? if you store your work on a seperate drive (not your OS drive) like me you can use norton ghost (or similar) to clone the entire drive (or partition) to cd, it will also span to multiple cds if required. rich * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
This is partially true. Think back in your own experience of the number of disk crashes/failures as opposed to the number of system meltdowns, fires, lightning strikes, etc. I bet you've seen WAY more of the former. Tony > >using a second internal hard drive on the same box is not a > >great idea i've seen more than one total box meltdown take out > >both drives > > Agreed. I would never a second drive as my primary backup, > however it is a good way to do automated incremental "snapshots", > say hourly, of your work in progress. It can all happen > transparently for the most part and is just another part of an > overall backup strategy. I still have my daily full workstation > network backups that happen independently on my server system. > > Matt Pobursky > Maximum Performance Systems > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
in our small office we run mirrorred drives on the server . All workstations have their local data backed up on the server drives. Said workstations are on ups's , the server too. Evening back-ups to a laptop which I take home . Every project revision gets archived on the server in a database and also on CD-R. I believe this is barely adequate and would like to improve. BTW, internet access is via a firewall/proxy on a dedicated machine, our workstations don't share resources which are not supposed to be shared, etc. No opening html mail, no javascript , no hiding known file types, etc. for attachments . No wild upgrades either to running programs during projects . Matt Tudor, MSEE http://www.gigahertzelectronics.com - Original Message - From: "Matt Pobursky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:46:49 -0700, Dennis Saputelli wrote: > >i just got a tape drive IDE internal b4 you trash tape this one > >is pretty cool IDE 30/60gig Tapeware software runs in background > >and makes an incremental b/u every night unattended every > >version of every file is on there and it is very fast pretty > >easy to retrieve > > I didn't mean to trash tapes. In fact, I ran a 12/24GB DAT backup > system before I switched to hard drives. Tape drive systems > become a real PITA when you can't fit all your backup data on one > tape though. Once that happens, you start getting lax about > backups and that's bad. Any backup is better than none at all. > > >with the hard drive method its hard to get all the old versions > >sometimes the older backup is the better one > > My backup software works the same for tapes, CD's, or hard > drives. You can do incremental or full backups, over write or > not. It's up to you how you want to manage your backups. Mine > stretch over a 14 backup set, so I usually can "go back" about 2 > weeks to any file on any workstation. > > >in pc mag a columnist recommends the new USB external hard > >drives about $250 for 20+G hard to beat > > Yes, the external removeable drives are nice. I'm looking at > converting my main backup system to removeable drives and > individual carriers on a USB 2.0 or Firewire link. > > >using a second internal hard drive on the same box is not a > >great idea i've seen more than one total box meltdown take out > >both drives > > Agreed. I would never a second drive as my primary backup, > however it is a good way to do automated incremental "snapshots", > say hourly, of your work in progress. It can all happen > transparently for the most part and is just another part of an > overall backup strategy. I still have my daily full workstation > network backups that happen independently on my server system. > > Matt Pobursky > Maximum Performance Systems > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
i binned several zip drives, too slow and not much capacity. CDR's are so cheap these days, i just burn a cd of each machine once a week on CDR and important stuff on CDRW each day. Tops 10mins a day backup schedule. Nero burning rom will automatically add files to a multisession CD when you add a session if you want it too (ie. changed or new files) this i find adequate. -Original Message- From: Mike Reagan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 April 2002 13:16 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > Is there a recommended software that does backup based on disk copy > operations, no need for zipping. I hate tapes, they are no up to > the job. The software should find the differences. Meaning find > changed files. Rene, I have attached a zip drive to every computer I use. They are cheap, 100- 150 US.I back every file I worked on, libs, ddbs, docs. everything at the end of the day. I have had several drives crash over the past few years. The only data I lost was the first time, after that I learned my lesson. Back up every day.Three times a year I archive all my files onto a CD for permanent file keeping. Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:59:05 -0400, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: >It will be interesting to see how long the drive works reliably >before it starts having read errors. In my experience with QIC >and Ditto drives, after a while the tape drives have too many >read errors. Even after cleaning the heads, they still have >problems. I had the same troubles with QIC drives. Never a problem with DAT. DAT drives are expensive, but the tapes are cheap and the recording method very reliable. >I agree about the version issue. Why doesn't someone write good >(and cheap) >backup software for non-tape media? The same thing could be >done for hard drives, CD-R/RW, networked storage, etc. Look at NovaBack. It does pretty much all you are asking for (it's why I use it too, I have similar needs) and is reasonably priced. The only caveat I can tell you about is that it cannot backup more than a 8GB backup dataset. Their tech support claims this is a limitation of Windows, but I'm not sure about that. To get around it, you just need to break the backup job into smaller parts (which is easy to do). I've found the software to be robust and bug free. I've never had their scheduler crash or do anything weird. http://www.no-panic.com/backup/n_backup.html No, I don't work for Novastor or have any affiliation with them. But I've tried a zillion different backup packages and this one has worked the best for me. Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
i too have had two fujitsu drives fail recently and now avoid them like the plague, i have only ever had on seagate drive fail (in many years) though, and they replaced that free of charge even though it was over two and a half years old!! fujitsu wouldn't even talk to me about a 13 month old one. seagate are stunning for service. my opion only of course, your mileage my vary ;-) Rich -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 April 2002 06:13 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data At 08:55 PM 29/04/02 -0700, you wrote: ><..snip..> >I triple backup because my livelyhood depends on it! I have two drives in my >machine that get mirrored. This covers me from a drive crash or even an >accidental file overwrite. On a weekly basis, I copy my data to another >machine, so if my drive controller on this machine screws up and trashes >both drives, I've only lost a week max. I don't screw around with tape >anymore because it's slow and I didn't do it often enough. > >Tony Tony - I am with you the need for backups but I would have been softer on the personal stuff. I recently had a disk crash that exposed a fault in my rigorous (I thought backup system) - I know how easy it is to think everything is backed up OK but then find that this is not the case - after the fact. I modified my system as below: 1) Each night all the machines on my network automagically runs a batch file that zips up anything that has changed in the last two days into a suitably named zip file (file name has date in it). (Basically incremental backup with overlap.) 2) This file is copied to both hard disks of that machine (every machine has two hard disks) and also across the network onto one hard disk of another machine. 3) Each week the same batch file is run but zipping anything that has changed in the last 999 days. (Basically a complete backup.) So each backup file is mirrored in three locations with one location on another machine and every one of them on a separate hard disk. The batch file is set to walk the directories that I want backed up. This is a bit of a fiddle (making sure all data directories are in the backup list). But each machine has a User Data folder below which all data to be backed up should be stored if possible - some programs do not make it easy to change the location of data files but these get added to the batch file manually. The zip process includes an exclude file to remove *.bak etc files from the backup. I then burn a CD-ROM every so often, and delete the older backups to stop the hard disks filling too quickly. I found that the Scheduled Task service under Win2k stops working (due to password failure when it tries to run a task as an Admin) after daylight saving - so my backup was not running for a couple of days until I noticed and found mention of the issue on the www. One office where I do a lot of work has recently had 5 out of 5 Fujitsu 20 GB hard disks fail all within a few months of each other, the most any of them lasted was about a 12 months. Operating systems were 2xWin98, 2xWinNT, and 1xWin2k. Air conditioned office. Some machines were being turned off each night and some were on always. All hard disks bought at the same time. I have also recently had a 20 GB hard disk fail (not Fujitsu). I spoke to a data recovery expert and he was saying that it is his strong impression that the failure rate of new hard disks is rising due mainly to the very short time-to-market constraints on the HD developers. ***It will happen to you.*** Ian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:53:31 -0400, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: >Yeah, I think ZIP drives are pretty lame now. They were a good >idea a few years ago, but when CD-R/RW came out and got cheap, >ZIP drives are dinosaurs now. Zip drives still have their place transporting data from system to system. At least you don't have the "Read Only" file attribute problem you run into with CDR's. Zip drives are aging technology, but still somewhat useful and better than nothing. >I don't understand Matt's claim that CD's aren't reliable. If >you handle them carefully (don't use them as coasters and keep >your greasy fingers off the optical surface) they are very >reliable. Now DVD's are another story. I keep my CD's in immaculate condition, but several recent studies I've seen strongly suggest that the long term stability of the media is not so hot. One study I saw (I wish I had saved the link to it) showed that data loss can start as soon 5 years of normal room temperature shelf storage. I don't find this too hard to believe, considering the data is stored in a non-sealed medium using optical properties of a polymer dye. All I meant really was that the jury is still out on the long term reliability of the writable CD media itself. I would consider the media to be at least as reliable as tape media, maybe more so. Then there's also the issue of whether a disc you wrote will be readable in a (possibly future) drive. I think we've all had CD's we've burned that would read fine in one drive but not others. >Since Protel DDBs are so huge now, fitting a large project on >one CD-R might be a problem. I have yet to see good backup >software that will span a backup across multiple CD-R. Anyone >know of one? The NovaBack software I use will span multiple CD's. I'm sure there are other backup programs that will also. Some drive image programs like Norton Ghost will also span multiple CD's. Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:46:49 -0700, Dennis Saputelli wrote: >i just got a tape drive IDE internal b4 you trash tape this one >is pretty cool IDE 30/60gig Tapeware software runs in background >and makes an incremental b/u every night unattended every >version of every file is on there and it is very fast pretty >easy to retrieve I didn't mean to trash tapes. In fact, I ran a 12/24GB DAT backup system before I switched to hard drives. Tape drive systems become a real PITA when you can't fit all your backup data on one tape though. Once that happens, you start getting lax about backups and that's bad. Any backup is better than none at all. >with the hard drive method its hard to get all the old versions >sometimes the older backup is the better one My backup software works the same for tapes, CD's, or hard drives. You can do incremental or full backups, over write or not. It's up to you how you want to manage your backups. Mine stretch over a 14 backup set, so I usually can "go back" about 2 weeks to any file on any workstation. >in pc mag a columnist recommends the new USB external hard >drives about $250 for 20+G hard to beat Yes, the external removeable drives are nice. I'm looking at converting my main backup system to removeable drives and individual carriers on a USB 2.0 or Firewire link. >using a second internal hard drive on the same box is not a >great idea i've seen more than one total box meltdown take out >both drives Agreed. I would never a second drive as my primary backup, however it is a good way to do automated incremental "snapshots", say hourly, of your work in progress. It can all happen transparently for the most part and is just another part of an overall backup strategy. I still have my daily full workstation network backups that happen independently on my server system. Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Yeah, I think ZIP drives are pretty lame now. They were a good idea a few years ago, but when CD-R/RW came out and got cheap, ZIP drives are dinosaurs now. I don't understand Matt's claim that CD's aren't reliable. If you handle them carefully (don't use them as coasters and keep your greasy fingers off the optical surface) they are very reliable. Now DVD's are another story. At this time, I would not trust critical data to a DVD. Bit density is too high to be reliable in real-world usage. Witness all the messed-up DVDs from the video rental store! People must use them as Twister dots! Since Protel DDBs are so huge now, fitting a large project on one CD-R might be a problem. I have yet to see good backup software that will span a backup across multiple CD-R. Anyone know of one? I use the removable hard drive strategy of backup. A 40GB drive will cost you $99 at Best Buy or your local PC store. Tapes are very unreliable in my experience, and very costly. Here is my idea of the ultimate backup technique: use a removable hard drive in a Linux box on your Samba network. Backup your files to that Linux box and take the drive home or store it in a rental storage facility. When you back up your Windows box, don't share the Linux drive with your Windows box, but share the Windows drive with your Linux box. That way if you get a virus on your Windows box, it cannot corrupt anything on the Linux box. I haven't tried it, but it would be really cool to set up the Linux cron daemon to periodically copy changed files from your Windows box to your Linux box, making the backup automatic. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: "Matt Pobursky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > The only problem with Zip drives or CD's is that they have pretty > limited storage capacity. They are also not the most reliable of > media, but they are fine for short term project data backups. > > Nowadays, with the low cost of hard drives it makes sense to me > to install an extra drive in your system or on a server for > nothing but backup purposes. It's nice not having to worry about > whether you'll have the backup space to store off any and all > files you even think you *might* need someday. It's cheap > insurance and peace of mind. > > BTW, I had a client whose facility burnt to the ground a few > years back. They called me and asked what project related files > and drawings (schematic, PCB, mechanical drawings, firmware, > etc.) I still might have for a project I had done for them > several years previous. Since I was already using this kind of > backup strategy, I had archived virtually the entire project > (less their own internal documents) and had them back up and > running in a matter of a couple days. Needless to say, they were > extremely grateful! > > Matt Pobursky > Maximum Performance Systems * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
i just got a tape drive IDE internal b4 you trash tape this one is pretty cool IDE 30/60gig Tapeware software runs in background and makes an incremental b/u every night unattended every version of every file is on there and it is very fast pretty easy to retrieve with the hard drive method its hard to get all the old versions sometimes the older backup is the better one in pc mag a columnist recommends the new USB external hard drives about $250 for 20+G hard to beat using a second internal hard drive on the same box is not a great idea i've seen more than one total box meltdown take out both drives Dennis Saputelli Matt Pobursky wrote: > > On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:16:20 -0400, Mike Reagan wrote: > >Rene, > > > >I have attached a zip drive to every computer I use. They are > >cheap, 100- > >150 US.I back every file I worked on, libs, ddbs, docs. > >everything at the end of the day. I have had several drives > >crash over the past few years. The only data I lost was the > >first time, after that I learned my lesson. Back up every day. > >Three times a year I archive all my files onto a CD for > >permanent file keeping. > > > >Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD > > The only problem with Zip drives or CD's is that they have pretty > limited storage capacity. They are also not the most reliable of > media, but they are fine for short term project data backups. > > Nowadays, with the low cost of hard drives it makes sense to me > to install an extra drive in your system or on a server for > nothing but backup purposes. It's nice not having to worry about > whether you'll have the backup space to store off any and all > files you even think you *might* need someday. It's cheap > insurance and peace of mind. > > BTW, I had a client whose facility burnt to the ground a few > years back. They called me and asked what project related files > and drawings (schematic, PCB, mechanical drawings, firmware, > etc.) I still might have for a project I had done for them > several years previous. Since I was already using this kind of > backup strategy, I had archived virtually the entire project > (less their own internal documents) and had them back up and > running in a matter of a couple days. Needless to say, they were > extremely grateful! > > Matt Pobursky > Maximum Performance Systems -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:16:20 -0400, Mike Reagan wrote: >Rene, > >I have attached a zip drive to every computer I use. They are >cheap, 100- >150 US.I back every file I worked on, libs, ddbs, docs. >everything at the end of the day. I have had several drives >crash over the past few years. The only data I lost was the >first time, after that I learned my lesson. Back up every day. >Three times a year I archive all my files onto a CD for >permanent file keeping. > >Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD The only problem with Zip drives or CD's is that they have pretty limited storage capacity. They are also not the most reliable of media, but they are fine for short term project data backups. Nowadays, with the low cost of hard drives it makes sense to me to install an extra drive in your system or on a server for nothing but backup purposes. It's nice not having to worry about whether you'll have the backup space to store off any and all files you even think you *might* need someday. It's cheap insurance and peace of mind. BTW, I had a client whose facility burnt to the ground a few years back. They called me and asked what project related files and drawings (schematic, PCB, mechanical drawings, firmware, etc.) I still might have for a project I had done for them several years previous. Since I was already using this kind of backup strategy, I had archived virtually the entire project (less their own internal documents) and had them back up and running in a matter of a couple days. Needless to say, they were extremely grateful! Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:26:27 +0200, Rene Tschaggelar wrote: >Is there a recommended software that does backup based on disk >copy operations, no need for zipping. I hate tapes, they are no >up to the job. The software should find the differences. Meaning >find changed files. >Don't fail on open files ? Doesn't have to do open files though. >Strictly no database orientation, meaning not copying into one >big blob, but simple directory-directory copying with some auto >-naming ? Rene, There are lots of ways to do what you want. On my own small office network, I backup ALL files on all workstations (5 total) every day. I also keep a mirror of my server data drive that contains my essential data (financial, design files, office documents) as well. I backup the network workstations to a removeable 60GB IDE hard drive using NovaBack software. I have a daily rotation of drives and every week one drive goes offsite for safe storage. It's set up to run automatically in the wee hours of the morning. I also do an hourly mirror of any changed files on my server's primary data drive to another physical drive in the server using a simple command line batch file. With large IDE drives being so cheap, they are much faster than tape and the cost is very reasonable. I can never lose more than a week's data, even if the place burns to the ground. It also makes any one system failure very easy to recover from, as well as any "oops" moments that happen. I can retrieve a mistakenly overwritten or deleted file from the previous day's backup in a matter of a minute or two. using my same strategy, you could have your design files backed up as often as you like, only saving changed files so that you have a "running backup" of your work on a physically separate drive. BTW, I'm running Win2K on my server and most of my workstations, with a couple running Win98 for legacy software and testing. Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
> > Is there a recommended software that does backup based on disk copy > operations, no need for zipping. I hate tapes, they are no up to > the job. The software should find the differences. Meaning find > changed files. Rene, I have attached a zip drive to every computer I use. They are cheap, 100- 150 US.I back every file I worked on, libs, ddbs, docs. everything at the end of the day. I have had several drives crash over the past few years. The only data I lost was the first time, after that I learned my lesson. Back up every day.Three times a year I archive all my files onto a CD for permanent file keeping. Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
You're right Tony I do make backups just not as often as you do. I experience at least one drive crash per year, meaning I'm prepared. While I could run server-centered I just don't have the confidence in the server. I have raid5 array on the server but the software fails on multiple copy operations at the same time. Perhaps a glitch in setting up samba ? While at the last crash, Aug2000, I justified the expense of a 6-drive Raid5, I might consider daily backup from now on. About a week is lost on this drive this time. Is there a recommended software that does backup based on disk copy operations, no need for zipping. I hate tapes, they are no up to the job. The software should find the differences. Meaning find changed files. Don't fail on open files ? Doesn't have to do open files though. Strictly no database orientation, meaning not copying into one big blob, but simple directory-directory copying with some auto-naming ? Rene Tony Karavidas wrote: > > Igor, I know why people come here. I've helped out plenty of times (and > asked quite a few questions too) But I don't do dumb things and then ask how > to get out of hot water. > > I don't know if you read what Rene wrote, but Rene said his drive CRASHED!!! > That almost ALWAYS means it gets thrown out, or reformatted or if they have > , sent in for data recovery services. > > I didn't call him stupid, I said: "...that was plain stupid." If anyone on > this list is making a living with their computer and NOT backing up their > data, they are *being* STUPID! There is a distinction between the two. > > There is nothing to take back...how about someone accepting they screwed > up?? His actions aren't wrong to me, they are wrong to an entire industry of > computer professionals. And if anyone else is silently saying to themselves > 'I don't back up either' well then you ought to learn a lesson from Rene's > crashed drive... > > I triple backup because my livelyhood depends on it! I have two drives in my > machine that get mirrored. This covers me from a drive crash or even an > accidental file overwrite. On a weekly basis, I copy my data to another > machine, so if my drive controller on this machine screws up and trashes > both drives, I've only lost a week max. I don't screw around with tape > anymore because it's slow and I didn't do it often enough. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
At 08:55 PM 29/04/02 -0700, you wrote: ><..snip..> >I triple backup because my livelyhood depends on it! I have two drives in my >machine that get mirrored. This covers me from a drive crash or even an >accidental file overwrite. On a weekly basis, I copy my data to another >machine, so if my drive controller on this machine screws up and trashes >both drives, I've only lost a week max. I don't screw around with tape >anymore because it's slow and I didn't do it often enough. > >Tony Tony - I am with you the need for backups but I would have been softer on the personal stuff. I recently had a disk crash that exposed a fault in my rigorous (I thought backup system) - I know how easy it is to think everything is backed up OK but then find that this is not the case - after the fact. I modified my system as below: 1) Each night all the machines on my network automagically runs a batch file that zips up anything that has changed in the last two days into a suitably named zip file (file name has date in it). (Basically incremental backup with overlap.) 2) This file is copied to both hard disks of that machine (every machine has two hard disks) and also across the network onto one hard disk of another machine. 3) Each week the same batch file is run but zipping anything that has changed in the last 999 days. (Basically a complete backup.) So each backup file is mirrored in three locations with one location on another machine and every one of them on a separate hard disk. The batch file is set to walk the directories that I want backed up. This is a bit of a fiddle (making sure all data directories are in the backup list). But each machine has a User Data folder below which all data to be backed up should be stored if possible - some programs do not make it easy to change the location of data files but these get added to the batch file manually. The zip process includes an exclude file to remove *.bak etc files from the backup. I then burn a CD-ROM every so often, and delete the older backups to stop the hard disks filling too quickly. I found that the Scheduled Task service under Win2k stops working (due to password failure when it tries to run a task as an Admin) after daylight saving - so my backup was not running for a couple of days until I noticed and found mention of the issue on the www. One office where I do a lot of work has recently had 5 out of 5 Fujitsu 20 GB hard disks fail all within a few months of each other, the most any of them lasted was about a 12 months. Operating systems were 2xWin98, 2xWinNT, and 1xWin2k. Air conditioned office. Some machines were being turned off each night and some were on always. All hard disks bought at the same time. I have also recently had a 20 GB hard disk fail (not Fujitsu). I spoke to a data recovery expert and he was saying that it is his strong impression that the failure rate of new hard disks is rising due mainly to the very short time-to-market constraints on the HD developers. ***It will happen to you.*** Ian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Igor, I know why people come here. I've helped out plenty of times (and asked quite a few questions too) But I don't do dumb things and then ask how to get out of hot water. I don't know if you read what Rene wrote, but Rene said his drive CRASHED!!! That almost ALWAYS means it gets thrown out, or reformatted or if they have , sent in for data recovery services. I didn't call him stupid, I said: "...that was plain stupid." If anyone on this list is making a living with their computer and NOT backing up their data, they are *being* STUPID! There is a distinction between the two. There is nothing to take back...how about someone accepting they screwed up?? His actions aren't wrong to me, they are wrong to an entire industry of computer professionals. And if anyone else is silently saying to themselves 'I don't back up either' well then you ought to learn a lesson from Rene's crashed drive... I triple backup because my livelyhood depends on it! I have two drives in my machine that get mirrored. This covers me from a drive crash or even an accidental file overwrite. On a weekly basis, I copy my data to another machine, so if my drive controller on this machine screws up and trashes both drives, I've only lost a week max. I don't screw around with tape anymore because it's slow and I didn't do it often enough. Tony > -Original Message- > From: Igor Gmitrovic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 8:16 PM > To: 'Protel EDA Forum' > Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > > Tony, > > people come to this forum for help and not to be publicly denigrated. > Psychologists say that we see in others what we have first seen in > ourselves. However other people's reasons or actions seemed wrong to you, > use of the sort of expression you have put in your message is > unjustified. I > would like to see you take back your comment. > > To Rene, > > Protel makes two types of backup files. > > The first one is automatic save backup, where the files are backed up into > the same folder where your design database resides.This type of > backup makes > a copy of the file every time you save your file. The second type is > scheduled backup, wher the files are saved at regular intervals of your > choice into an assigned folder of your choice, making any number of copies > of your choise (between 0-9). The default folder is usually C:\Program > Files\Design Explorer 99\Backup. If the scheduled backup was enabled and > your disk drive is still alive you might find your files there. > > Regards, > > Igor > > -Original Message- > From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, 30 April 2002 1:58 AM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > > Not to sound harsh, but that was plain stupid. You're using your > computer in > a professional manner and not backing up your data properly > > Go to a data recovery service. They can sometimes scrape bits off the data > floor :) > > Otherwise, I think you've just learned a big lesson. > > Tony > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 8:33 AM > > To: Protel EDA Forum > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > > > > > Thanks, but the drive crashed. And backup was a bit behind. > > > > Rene > > > > Stephen Casey wrote: > > > > > > Rene, > > > > > > > Is there a way to recover the pcb file ? > > > > > > I don't have much time to go into detail now, but try doing a > search for > > > *.pcb, from the Windows 'Start' menu. It should show up any > backup files > > > that have been saved to your hard drive. > > > > > > Good luck - I'm sure you'll get many more useful suggestions > > from others. > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Tony, people come to this forum for help and not to be publicly denigrated. Psychologists say that we see in others what we have first seen in ourselves. However other people's reasons or actions seemed wrong to you, use of the sort of expression you have put in your message is unjustified. I would like to see you take back your comment. To Rene, Protel makes two types of backup files. The first one is automatic save backup, where the files are backed up into the same folder where your design database resides.This type of backup makes a copy of the file every time you save your file. The second type is scheduled backup, wher the files are saved at regular intervals of your choice into an assigned folder of your choice, making any number of copies of your choise (between 0-9). The default folder is usually C:\Program Files\Design Explorer 99\Backup. If the scheduled backup was enabled and your disk drive is still alive you might find your files there. Regards, Igor -Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 30 April 2002 1:58 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data Not to sound harsh, but that was plain stupid. You're using your computer in a professional manner and not backing up your data properly Go to a data recovery service. They can sometimes scrape bits off the data floor :) Otherwise, I think you've just learned a big lesson. Tony > -Original Message- > From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 8:33 AM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > > Thanks, but the drive crashed. And backup was a bit behind. > > Rene > > Stephen Casey wrote: > > > > Rene, > > > > > Is there a way to recover the pcb file ? > > > > I don't have much time to go into detail now, but try doing a search for > > *.pcb, from the Windows 'Start' menu. It should show up any backup files > > that have been saved to your hard drive. > > > > Good luck - I'm sure you'll get many more useful suggestions > from others. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Brad Velander wrote: > Rene, > did you have auto-back-ups enabled? If so then you should search the > drive (assuming it is not complete toast) for "PCB filename".bk1, "PCB > filename".bk2, etc., to the maximum number of backups you had specified. I > hope that you did not turn off the Protel generated back-ups! I even set a > specific directory to receive these back-ups so that they are in a unique > location and they are all that is found in that directory. I set the Protel Backup directory to a different physical disk drive from the working data disk, just in case of a disk crash. I recently had a drive crash in the midst of a rush project (I always have wondered how they know to occur at the most inopportune time) but was able to continue with the backup that Protel had made to the alternate drive. I only lost about 10 minutes of work. I was then able to deal with the crashed disk when I got a respite from the crunch. with the cost of disk drives so cheap, there is no reason not to have multiple hard drives in a system (assuming the system is not on a network). If it is on a network, then Protel makes it very easy to have redundant data available on another machine. David W. Gulley Destiny Designs * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Rene, did you have auto-back-ups enabled? If so then you should search the drive (assuming it is not complete toast) for "PCB filename".bk1, "PCB filename".bk2, etc., to the maximum number of backups you had specified. I hope that you did not turn off the Protel generated back-ups! I even set a specific directory to receive these back-ups so that they are in a unique location and they are all that is found in that directory. I am not sure what your comment below was directed at. I took it to mean system back-ups and not the Protel automatic back-ups. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Visit us at Booth 2G2-09 at CommunicAsia 2002 in Singapore June 18-21. > -Original Message- > From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 8:33 AM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > > Thanks, but the drive crashed. And backup was a bit behind. > > Rene > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Not to sound harsh, but that was plain stupid. You're using your computer in a professional manner and not backing up your data properly Go to a data recovery service. They can sometimes scrape bits off the data floor :) Otherwise, I think you've just learned a big lesson. Tony > -Original Message- > From: Rene Tschaggelar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 8:33 AM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] recovering data > > > Thanks, but the drive crashed. And backup was a bit behind. > > Rene > > Stephen Casey wrote: > > > > Rene, > > > > > Is there a way to recover the pcb file ? > > > > I don't have much time to go into detail now, but try doing a search for > > *.pcb, from the Windows 'Start' menu. It should show up any backup files > > that have been saved to your hard drive. > > > > Good luck - I'm sure you'll get many more useful suggestions > from others. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Thanks, but the drive crashed. And backup was a bit behind. Rene Stephen Casey wrote: > > Rene, > > > Is there a way to recover the pcb file ? > > I don't have much time to go into detail now, but try doing a search for > *.pcb, from the Windows 'Start' menu. It should show up any backup files > that have been saved to your hard drive. > > Good luck - I'm sure you'll get many more useful suggestions from others. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] recovering data
Rene, > Is there a way to recover the pcb file ? I don't have much time to go into detail now, but try doing a search for *.pcb, from the Windows 'Start' menu. It should show up any backup files that have been saved to your hard drive. Good luck - I'm sure you'll get many more useful suggestions from others. Steve. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
