Re: [silk] Founder's Day!

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

Thanks all I’m much better now than I was a week back



--srs

  




On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 6:25 PM +0530, "Thaths"  wrote:










Happy birthday, Udhay and Deepak!

Suresh, glad that you are out of the hospital and doing better.

Thaths

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 5:50 AM Venkat Mangudi - Silk 
wrote:

> Happy Birthday, Deepa and Udhay. Have a great day and year ahead.
>
> Cheers,
> Venkat
>
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 at 11:32 AM, Anish Mohammed 
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 23 Oct 2020 at 06:16, Deepa Mohan  wrote:
> >
> > > Whether Udhay founded it or foundered on it, this list and his
> > Interesting
> > > Friends have given me quite a lot of great conversation too!
> > >
> > > Happy birthday, Vod ka Raja, and may your friends increase.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Deepa.
> > >
> >
> > Happy birthday Udhay, its been an honour to  have you as a friend for
> > almost two decades ...
> > --
> > Anish Mohammed
> > https://calendly.com/zeroknowledge
> >
>

Re: [silk] Founder's Day!

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Much better now than I was last week, thanks!

(for the other members of the list, I had a bad two weeks of covid and came out 
of hospital last Saturday)

On 23/10/20, 11:19 AM, "silklist on behalf of Deepa Mohan" 
 wrote:

Indeed it is, thank you Suresh, and I hope you are recovering steadily!

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 10:54 AM Suresh Ramasubramanian 
wrote:

> FB seems to tell me it is your birthday as well Deepa .. happy birthday!
>
> On 23/10/20, 10:46 AM, "silklist on behalf of Deepa Mohan"
>  mohande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Whether Udhay founded it or foundered on it, this list and his
> Interesting
> Friends have given me quite a lot of great conversation too!
>
> Happy birthday, Vod ka Raja, and may your friends increase.
>
> Cheers, Deepa.
>
>
>
>

Re: [silk] Founder's Day!

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

FB seems to tell me it is your birthday as well Deepa .. happy birthday!

On 23/10/20, 10:46 AM, "silklist on behalf of Deepa Mohan" 
 wrote:

Whether Udhay founded it or foundered on it, this list and his Interesting
Friends have given me quite a lot of great conversation too!

Happy birthday, Vod ka Raja, and may your friends increase.

Cheers, Deepa.

Re: [silk] Spammer attack

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

It is trivially broken but well, let me enable it when I have some time 



--srs

  




On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:38 PM +0530, "Hari Selvarajan" 
 wrote:










> Some spammer seems to have discovered the mailman instance that runs
> silklist. I am getting ~50 new member requests per day which I am manually
> deleting. FML.
> 

Apparently[1] mailman, from around version 2.1.26, has Google reCAPTCHA 
support. Is enabling that an option? 

— Hari

[1] https://code.launchpad.net/~dsieborger/mailman/recaptcha/+merge/336782 

Re: [silk] Valuing and selling inherited trinkets

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

If there is a reputable auctioneer in bangalore your best bet is to auction 
this collection through them

Are there any books?

On 11/04/20, 6:11 PM, "silklist on behalf of Pooja Sastry" 
 wrote:

> Pooja
>
> If you have a working cassette and CD player, please let me know.
>
> Thanks
> Lakshmi
>

 Hi Lakshmi, sorry this comes late, but we do have working cassette and CD
players, will be happy to show you.

I’ve had a very good experience with the antique dealer Ramachandra his
> number is +91 96866 71615, he has a store (more of godown really) off
> Commercial Street.
>
> Also, in case you find any fountain pens or stationary in there, I’ll be
> happy to pay you for them as I collect fountain pens.
>
> If you are fine with it, me and my wife would be happy to come over (we
> are quarantining ourselves until the 31st)  and look at those wooden boxes
> as she loves them as well.
>
> —
> Thank you,
> Bharath
>

I'm sorry for the late response, Bharath! Thanks so much for this lead,
will follow this up after the lockdown. We do have fountain pens, and you
and your wife are welcome to come over to look at them and the wooden
boxes, except it looks like it will have to be after April now.

Hope you are all safe and well, everyone. Enjoying the thread on behaviour
change post-Coronavirus and thinking about how there's probably no "normal
we can go back to" now.

Pooja

Re: [silk] Coronavirus and behaviour change

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

The school boards end in April. Going to some out of the way place with fewer 
crowds than the typical big city might actually be a reasonable idea.

On 09/03/20, 7:18 AM, "silklist on behalf of Udhay Shankar N" 
 wrote:

Also: I think the virus situation, combined with the pressure of school
boards, is going to nix any travel this summer.

Re: [silk] Fwd: A book launch in Bangalore

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Ah need coffee. Friday evening shall we say? After a thursday evening book 
launch doesn’t sound quite like what the doctor ordered when it comes to a late 
night with conversation and alcohol 
--srs



On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 3:43 PM +0530, "Udhay Shankar N"  wrote:










On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 2:22 PM Suresh Ramasubramanian 
wrote:


> Can we please combine the two?


Isn't that exactly what is being proposed?

Re: [silk] Fwd: A book launch in Bangalore

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

Can we please combine the two?



--srs

  




On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 1:46 PM +0530, "WordPsmith"  wrote:










Yes, Bangalore Silkers, please do come! I like the idea of a Silk meetup at the 
launch. :-)

> On Dec 2, 2019, at 08:13, Udhay Shankar N  wrote:
> 
> Bangalore folks, one of our own is launching a book on 12th. An impromptu
> meetup at the venue, perhaps?
> 
> Also, Silklist's 22nd birthday is coming up. Ideas?
> 
> Udhay
> 
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Samanth Subramanian 
> Date: Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 1:05 PM
> Subject: A book launch in Bangalore
> To: samanth 
> 
> 
> Dearly beloved,
> 
> As some of you may already know from my whinges, I've been working on
> a book for the last four years: a biography of the scientist,
> Communist and all-round rabble-rouser JBS Haldane, who died in
> Bhubhaneswar in 1964. The book, "A Dominant Character," is now
> available for pre-order, and will be shipped come Dec. 10. And to be
> totally brazen about it, here's a link:
> https://www.amazon.in/Dominant-Character-Radical-Restless-Politics/dp/9386797526
> .
> 
> Champaca, the excellent bookstore in the heart of town, has been kind
> enough to offer its space for a launch event. So I'll be in
> conversation with the poet and novelist Jeet Thayil on Thursday, Dec.
> 12, at 630 pm. Everyone's welcome! No invite is necessary, although
> one is attached. Please feel absolutely free to send this on to your
> friends as well, and to invite anyone else who might be interested --
> in Haldane, or in Jeet's work, or just in boosting the popularity of a
> fine bookstore.
> 
> I hope to see you there!
> 
> Best,
> Samanth
> 
> 
> --
> http://www.samanth.in
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

Re: [silk] Bangalore and Chennai food/restaurant recommendations

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

You need north Chennai for truly oily and spicy food :) Like the 
Burmese influenced atho/ mohinga in no name stalls around George Town


--srs

  



On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 11:12 AM +0530, "Narayanan Hariharan" 
 wrote:










Here goes the Chennai list.

Spice Klub in Nungambakkam for Indian food with a twist.

Sangeetha for South Indian breakfast

Mahamudra in Mylapore for South Indian cuisine of the healthy kind (millets, 
more veggies etc etc). Prems Grama Bhojanam falls under this category too, but 
isn’t as fancy.

Southern Spice in Taj Coromandel for South Indian lunch

Avartana in ITC Grand Chola for South Indian dinner

If they are up to it, as a side project of Passing Ports, we take people out on 
a Mylapore temple + food walk and a Sowcarpet food walk, but that’s only if 
they are game for the hustle and bustle of our streets and can stomach 
oily/spicy food.

-- 
Narayanan Hariharan

On 18 September 2019 at 11:02:11, Geetanjali Chitnis 
(g...@geetanjalichitnis.com) wrote:

Bangalore:  

- Sunheri restaurant in Woodlands Hotel (Richmond Road) for lunchtime  
south Indian banana leaf meal (absolutely must do)  
- CTR (Malleshwaram) for dosa  
- Raghavendra Stores (Malleshwaram opp Manipal Northside Hospital) for  
idli  
- Taaza Thindi (Jayanagar) for dosa, idli  
- The Permit Room (opp Garuda Mall) for Indian food with many twists  
(please order the haleem samosa and/or pandi ribs if they eat meat and also  
the curd rice!)  
- Tandoor (MG Road) for some good butter chicken and naan  
- South Ruchi's on Race Course road for some nice veggie food made from  
organic veggies in a sort-of fine dine ambience (bisibele bath is my  
favourite here). Also Sattvam on Sankey Road/ Dakshin at Windsor Manor if  
you want a fancy ambience.  

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:45 AM Biju Chacko  wrote:  

> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 07:52, Anil Kumar   
> wrote:  
> >  
> > There is a long time running debate/fight on North Blr vs South Blr (CTR  
> > better than MTR; Malleswaram better than Jayanagar) among some  
> > Bangaloreans. I (West Bangalorean; staying at similar distances to both  
> > places) have my popcorn ready. :-)  
>  
> Not being a big Dosa guy, I ignore this fight and head to Brahmin's in  
> Basavangudi. Now, there's one place that lives up to the hype!  
>  
> -- b  
>  
>  

--  
Regards,  

Geetanjali Chitnis  
*Consultant - Content Strategy & Digital Marketing*  
m: +91 9886442369  
w: www.geetanjalichitnis.com e: g...@geetanjalichitnis.com  
   
  
  

Re: [silk] Bangalore and Chennai food/restaurant recommendations

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Exactly.

On 18/09/19, 10:03 AM, "silklist on behalf of Udhay Shankar N" 
 wrote:

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 9:49 AM Pooja Sastry  wrote:

Try Oota Bangalore in Whitefield? A wide range of things to try + local-ish
> (from across Karnataka). Pricey, so west-friendly hygiene standards.
>

This is Manjit's restaurant, right? Above Windmills?

Udhay

-- 

((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

Re: [silk] Bangalore and Chennai food/restaurant recommendations

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Oota Bangalore has my 100% reco. MTR's quality is way down these days, riding 
on a past reputation even more than Koshy's is.

On 18/09/19, 9:49 AM, "silklist on behalf of Pooja Sastry" 
 wrote:

>
> There are a dozen places I would go to in Bangalore for authentic, tasty
> food over MTR. From street corner benne dosa places, to North Karnataka
> food to TamBram food to mudde idli places, But I would hesitate to 
take
> a foreigner with no previous exposure to Indian restaurants to many of
> these. I.e., don't throw them in the deep end of the pool.
>

Try Oota Bangalore in Whitefield? A wide range of things to try + local-ish
(from across Karnataka). Pricey, so west-friendly hygiene standards.

>

Re: [silk] Bangalore and Chennai food/restaurant recommendations

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

What you need is Edo at the ITC Gardenia. Eye wateringly expensive but 
even seriously foodie Japanese friends have raved over the sushi there.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/themadman/sets/72157625504671826/





--srs

  




On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:57 AM +0530, "Danese Cooper"  wrote:










My list to take US and EU colleagues in Chennai / Bangalore:

-any of the restaurants at the Windsor (in Bangalore) or the Grand Chola
(in Chennai)...because they are set up to cater to those populations.

-Yauatcha in Bangalore...so good! Not Indian, but hey!

My $.02
D

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 8:12 PM Thaths  wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 7:38 PM Venkat Mangudi - Silk <
> s...@venkatmangudi.com> wrote:
>
> > MTR is over-rated. :-)
> >
> > CTR (there are two of them near Malleswaram) is better for dosas. Shree
> > Sagar (Central tiffin room - CTR1) is near the Malleswaram ground.
> > Chikkanna Tiffin Room (CTR2) is near the temple in Kumara Park. Both have
> > lip-smacking dosas.
> >
>
> I want to remind people that OP's question was about recommended places for
> visiting European tourists who have had little exposure to Indian cuisine
> to go to. The question was not what is the best place for some dish.
> Implied in the OP's question was, IMO, a requirement that the place be
> easily accessible to foreign tourists without freaking them out with
> language barrier or perceived hygiene issues.
>
> There are a dozen places I would go to in Bangalore for authentic, tasty
> food over MTR. From street corner benne dosa places, to North Karnataka
> food to TamBram food to mudde idli places, But I would hesitate to take
> a foreigner with no previous exposure to Indian restaurants to many of
> these. I.e., don't throw them in the deep end of the pool.
>
> Thaths
>
>
>
> --
> Homer: Hey, what does this job pay?
> Carl:  Nuthin'.
> Homer: D'oh!
> Carl:  Unless you're crooked.
> Homer: Woo-hoo!
>

Re: [silk] A considered opinion

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Joi has resigned. I consider that the end of the story as far as I am 
concerned. 
The counterpoints being put forward are many, such as about just how many US 
universities were endowed by 19th century robber barons, or European ones by 
kings and nobles whose behaviour was more rather than less reprehensible.  RMS 
has a rather stranger defense of Epstein that I sure hope he was misquoted on.
None of those has any bearing on Joi’s decision to accept or not accept 
Epstein’s “anonymous” donations or Negroponte saying the donations must be 
accepted.  Any more than someone appealing a fine for running a stop light has 
relevance to the police fining or not fining a car with expired plates that 
just drove past.
He’s accepted responsibility for that decision and resigned.  And future 
university administrators will either get the jitters about not taking any 
money that people might object to, or be much more careful in how thoroughly 
they anonymise such donations.
--srs

  



On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 4:57 AM +0530,  wrote:










On 2019-09-15 17:03, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
> I agree here. Not having an opinion is just how badness continues to 
> flourish.  
> For example the rise of the Nazis was largely facilitated by the large
> number of people who just didn’t have any opinion on atrocities as
> long as they had a strong government and well functioning
> infrastructure.
> 
> 
> 
>   --srs

I agree that "not having an opinion" on some issues — those that involve 
human actions that affect many people in significant ways (including for 
example, their being kidnapped, tortured, and murdered) (and for which, 
furthermore, facts are not difficult to obtain by people who look for 
them in good faith)(and doubly furthermore for people whose opinions and 
actions on said issues have actual consequences) — for example Nazism — 
and in particular, the position of not having an opinion on it *when 
taken by citizens of 1930's and 1940's Germany* (and the USA today) — is 
a cowardly cop-out and abrogation of a moral responsibility.

But in my opinion that's not the same thing as not having an opinion on 
how much culpability Joi Ito had in the matter of Jeffrey Epstein & 
MIT's Media Lab.

jrs

Re: [silk] A considered opinion

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

I agree here. Not having an opinion is just how badness continues to 
flourish.  
For example the rise of the Nazis was largely facilitated by the large number 
of people who just didn’t have any opinion on atrocities as long as they had a 
strong government and well functioning infrastructure.



--srs

  




On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 11:15 PM +0530, "Nishant Shah"  
wrote:










My only 2 cents to that would be to consider the following:
1. Not having an opinion about something that is a crisis in your 'field'
is a state of privilege. If you are removed from it, are not directly
affected by it, and do not have to take that opinion, it is fine, but then
for those who do get embroiled in this case, let them also have their
opinions.
2. Not having an opinion does not mean neutrality. It means that you will
not state your opinion, but it is good to make sure it doesn't become
weaponized against the people who are affected by these situations. Not
having an opinion doesn't mean continued work and relationships with those
who have been accused of abuse. It does not mean absolution from
responsibility.
3. Having an informed opinion is not the same thing as having an informed
stand-point. In unfolding cases like these, it is feasible to have a
differed understanding, and not engaging in instant meaning making and
opining, but sometimes inaction is betrayal, and even in ill-informed
situations, especially if you hold influential positions, your standpoint
has to be clear, even if you have no comments on the incident at hand.
Ok, more than 2 cents, but I have seen this 'no opinion' used as a defense
by enablers (not directly pointing fingers at anybody on the list or
thread) and has the danger of silencing those who dare to protest and call
out.
Warmly,
Nishant

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 2:07 PM Udhay Shankar N  wrote:

> I saw this line from silklister Heather Madrone on another list, and it got
> me thinking (shared with Heather's permission):
>
> > I have no opinion on Ito and MIT and the Media Lab. I'm not
> > interested in doing the work to develop a considered view of that
> situation.
>
> Setting aside the specifics of the Media Lab clusterfuck, this is a
> remarkably concise way of conveying that
>
> 1) It takes *work* to build enough perspective to have an informed opinion
> about something;
> 2) Having an informed opinion is a good thing; and
> 3) Not having an opinion is OK if one can't have an informed opinion.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Udhay
>
> --
>
> ((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
>


-- 
Dr. Nishant Shah (Ph.D.)
Vice-President Research, ArtEZ University of the Arts, The Netherlands.
Visiting Professor, Leuphana University, Germany.
https://nishantshah.online

Re: [silk] Water storage question

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

If it’s not potable it will taste bad and smell bad plus be cloudy / 
murky as a rule. Should be ok if it’s clear 



--srs

  




On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 8:23 AM +0530, "Udhay Shankar N"  
wrote:










Are there any health concerns I should be aware of if I drink water that
has been sitting in my car for a few weeks? This is RO filtered water that
has been in a glass bottle (not a disposable plastic one) and not in direct
sunlight.

--
((Udhay Shankar N))  ((via phone))

Re: [silk] In Bangalore June 20/21/22

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

I'm out of this. 6/21 is my wedding anniversary and there's a vacation planned 
over the weekend.  Sorry to miss you Jiten.

On 11/06/19, 10:17 AM, "silklist on behalf of Udhay Shankar N" 
 wrote:

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 10:09 AM Jitendra Vaidya 
wrote:

I am visiting Bangalore to attend and present at Rootconf.in. Thursday
> promises to be kinda crazy but would love to meet the good folks of Silk 
on
> Friday (June 21) or Saturday (June 22) evening.
>

Friday June 21 works better for me, but can do Saturday June 22 if that's
what the majority wants.

Udhay

-- 

((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

Re: [silk] Yahoo email issue

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

I see ok deliveries

2019-06-07 09:17:01 1hZFfx-0004Uu-3G <= 
silklist-bounces+cacophonix1984=yahoo@lists.hserus.net 
H=(samwise.hserus.net) [::1]:42866 I=[::1]:25 P=esmtp S=3414 
id=capg_tvmdvq8a5iodisa3gj+riheb5518ockbh9lsxr0nm_1...@mail.gmail.com T="Re: 
[silk] Yahoo email issue" from 
 for 
cacophonix1...@yahoo.com
2019-06-07 09:17:01 1hZFfw-0004Uu-GB => chaiba...@yahoo.com 
F= R=dnslookup 
T=remote_smtp S=3464 H=mta6.am0.yahoodns.net [67.195.228.110] I=[50.23.85.242] 
X=TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128 CV=yes 
DN="C=US,ST=California,L=Sunnyvale,O=Oath Inc,CN=*.am0.yahoodns.net" C="250 ok 
dirdel"
2019-06-07 09:17:01 1hZFfw-0004Uu-B3 => xxx...@yahoo.com 
F= R=dnslookup 
T=remote_smtp S=3455 H=mta5.am0.yahoodns.net [98.137.159.25] I=[50.23.85.242] 
X=TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128 CV=yes 
DN="C=US,ST=California,L=Sunnyvale,O=Oath Inc,CN=*.am0.yahoodns.net" C="250 ok 
dirdel"
2019-06-07 09:17:02 1hZFfy-0004WQ-PI <= 
silklist-bounces+kulkarnik=yahoo@lists.hserus.net H=(samwise.hserus.net) 
[::1]:42928 I=[::1]:25 P=esmtp S=3399 
id=capg_tvmdvq8a5iodisa3gj+riheb5518ockbh9lsxr0nm_1...@mail.gmail.com T="Re: 
[silk] Yahoo email issue" from 
 for kulkar...@yahoo.com


On 07/06/19, 7:42 PM, "silklist on behalf of Udhay Shankar N" 
 wrote:

Most of the yahoo email IDs on silklist have been auto-unsubscribed due to
excessive bounces. What's going on?

Udhay

-- 

((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

Re: [silk] New member Intro: Jitendra (Jiten) Vaidya

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

OK - so when you make eg biryani in a pressure cooker you layer basmati rice 
soaked for an hour and marinated meat + veggies, and then pour some of that 
milk + saffron mix over it for flavour.

The only water in the picture would be at the bottom of the cooker over which 
you place the vessel with the rice / meat layers.  Sort of like a double boiler 
and to increase the moist heat quotient.

I only turn the heat down a few seconds after the final whistle before I turn 
the burner off.   I guess you can control temperature and pressure better with 
these pot gadgets rather than with an old fashioned Prestige cooker?


On 28/02/19, 3:23 PM, "silklist on behalf of Huda Masood" 
 wrote:

Layered ingredients according to moisture levels. No added water or a tiny
amount of added water. Cooking on high heat for the entire duration.

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019, 00:00 Suresh Ramasubramanian,  wrote:

> Newbie question but how does this one pot thingy differ from a plain old
> pressure cooker?
>
> On 28/02/19, 2:20 AM, "silklist on behalf of Huda Masood"
>  hudamas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I haven't really tried sous vide for the same reason - i.e. plastic 
and
> leaching.
>
> I'm a big fan of the OPOS method - One pot One shot. A gentleman in
> Chennai
> who goes by Sir Ramki came up with it and I really think it's the bees
> knees. It basically utilizes the inherent moisture in the ingredients
> themselves to cook under pressure (std 15 psi, 120 degrees centigrade,
> moist heat) and there is none to little addition of water. He's got a
> great
> primer book explaining the science behind it on Amazon kindle - called
> OPOS
> primer.
>
> I make a ridiculously lip smacking (I have to say so myself because
> only I
> and the husband have ever eaten it, we never got as far as to share 
it)
> spaghetti sauce - comprising of beef mince, whole tomatoes, whole
> garlic,
> onions, butter, salt and pepper. It cooks on high heat for 40 minutes
> and
> comes out like it's been going on the fire all night.
>
> I think I've made myself quite hungry.
>
> Let me know if anyone has tried it out or wants to come over for a
> demo !
>
> H.M.
>
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 at 11:18, Jitendra Vaidya <
> jitendra.vai...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Bruce,
> >
> > Thanks a bunch for the detailed posts. I think you (and Naren and
> Ashim)
> > have finally convinced me to take the plunge.
> >
> > I will report back results, and possibly ask more questions, soon.
> >
> > -Jiten
> >
>
>
> --
> Huda Masood
> +91 9886796967
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [silk] New member Intro: Jitendra (Jiten) Vaidya

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Newbie question but how does this one pot thingy differ from a plain old 
pressure cooker?

On 28/02/19, 2:20 AM, "silklist on behalf of Huda Masood" 
 wrote:

I haven't really tried sous vide for the same reason - i.e. plastic and
leaching.

I'm a big fan of the OPOS method - One pot One shot. A gentleman in Chennai
who goes by Sir Ramki came up with it and I really think it's the bees
knees. It basically utilizes the inherent moisture in the ingredients
themselves to cook under pressure (std 15 psi, 120 degrees centigrade,
moist heat) and there is none to little addition of water. He's got a great
primer book explaining the science behind it on Amazon kindle - called OPOS
primer.

I make a ridiculously lip smacking (I have to say so myself because only I
and the husband have ever eaten it, we never got as far as to share it)
spaghetti sauce - comprising of beef mince, whole tomatoes, whole garlic,
onions, butter, salt and pepper. It cooks on high heat for 40 minutes and
comes out like it's been going on the fire all night.

I think I've made myself quite hungry.

Let me know if anyone has tried it out or wants to come over for a demo !

H.M.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 at 11:18, Jitendra Vaidya 
wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> Thanks a bunch for the detailed posts. I think you (and Naren and Ashim)
> have finally convinced me to take the plunge.
>
> I will report back results, and possibly ask more questions, soon.
>
> -Jiten
>


-- 
Huda Masood
+91 9886796967

Re: [silk] New member Intro: Jitendra (Jiten) Vaidya

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

https://www.vahrehvah.com/mirchi-ka-salan



—srs 

  




On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 9:12 PM -0800, "Suresh Ramasubramanian" 
 wrote:











  
  
  

When did you turn vegetarian shenoy maam?
https://www.archanaskitchen.com/gutti-vankaya-recipe-andhra-style-stuffed-brinjal




—srs 

  




On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 6:39 PM -0800, "Shenoy N"  wrote:










Thanks so much for this. Could you share some recipes (or recommend some
place where these might be found, especially recipes for vegetables)

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:43 AM Bruce A. Metcalf  On 02/24/2019 01:31 PM, 
Jitendra Vaidya wrote:
>
> > Speaking of cooking techniques, has anybody tried Sous Vide? I would love
> > to try it but the thought of cooking food in a polyethylene bag for long
> > periods of time puts me off.
>
> I have been heavily into sous vide cooking for several years now. It's a
> wonderful technique that offers the cook new options.
>
> The concern about plastic is not unfounded. However, there are safe
> plastics offered for use with heat-sealing appliances. These often cost
> more than the sous vide device and fail more often; I don't recommend them.
>
> I use "zip-lock" freezer bags. Note the term "freezer", as they are made
> with different materials than the storage bags. Glad is one brand that
> actually recommends their freezer bags for sous vide, which means the
> lawyers have approved of the science.  Because sous vide (by
> definition) never exceeds 100C, breakdown of the plastic isn't an issue.
>
> Obviously, it's hard to pull a vacuum on a zip-lock bag, but it's not
> necessary. Put a small amount of a braising liquid in the bag with the
> meat or vegetables, then dunk the bag in water to force out the air, and
> zip. Small amounts of air aren't a problem, especially on long cooks.
>
> "Braising liquid" could just be water. I've also used ghee, tomato
> juice, various stocks, and more than a few weird combinations. It works
> somewhere between a braise and a marinade, as the temperature is also
> intermediate.
>
> Do drain the braising liquid when done, especially if you won't be
> eating it all promptly. Any acid in the liquid will continue to "cook",
> leaving a gooey and unpleasant texture.
>
> Today's example is a pork shoulder roast I put in on Saturday evening at
> 58C. I used spicy, low-sodium V-8 juice with a big dash of liquid smoke
> for the braise. It should come out medium rare and quite tender. I
> expect to slice off a few "steaks" and finish them on the grill for
> perhaps a minute per side. The rest I'll probably shred for Other Projects.
>
> There are two types of sous vide equipment. The most common is the
> immersion heater: These include a small pump for circulation, but you
> must provide a container and deal with the inevitable evaporation, a
> non-trivial issue for multi-day cooks. Many buy plastic coolers and cut
> a hole in the top for the heater.
>
> The other type goes by various names, I prefer "water oven". This is an
> insulated box with built-in heater, but no circulator pump. Convection
> appears to be fully sufficient. Best, with an aluminum cover, evaporated
> water condenses on the cover and drips back in, permitting up to 4-day
> cooks without adding water.
>
> The water oven has a fixed capacity, obviously. The immersion heater can
> be put in anything from a liter jug to a bathtub. Note that uninsulated
> bathtubs will require more than one heater to keep temperature. Water
> ovens can cost more, but consider the money saved by not buying a fancy
> bag sealer!
>
> One nice thing about the insulated water oven is that it puts off less
> heat while working than my coffee pot; something much appreciated here
> in Florida where the A/C runs year-round.
>
> The technique also works well for vegetables as well as meats, but not
> at the same time as veggies need higher temperatures. Meats 55-65C,
> veggies 75-85C.
>
> Lots of recipes and opinions available on request.
>
> Cheers,
> / Bruce /
>
>

Re: [silk] New member Intro: Jitendra (Jiten) Vaidya

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

When did you turn vegetarian shenoy maam?
https://www.archanaskitchen.com/gutti-vankaya-recipe-andhra-style-stuffed-brinjal




—srs 

  




On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 6:39 PM -0800, "Shenoy N"  wrote:










Thanks so much for this. Could you share some recipes (or recommend some
place where these might be found, especially recipes for vegetables)

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:43 AM Bruce A. Metcalf  On 02/24/2019 01:31 PM, 
Jitendra Vaidya wrote:
>
> > Speaking of cooking techniques, has anybody tried Sous Vide? I would love
> > to try it but the thought of cooking food in a polyethylene bag for long
> > periods of time puts me off.
>
> I have been heavily into sous vide cooking for several years now. It's a
> wonderful technique that offers the cook new options.
>
> The concern about plastic is not unfounded. However, there are safe
> plastics offered for use with heat-sealing appliances. These often cost
> more than the sous vide device and fail more often; I don't recommend them.
>
> I use "zip-lock" freezer bags. Note the term "freezer", as they are made
> with different materials than the storage bags. Glad is one brand that
> actually recommends their freezer bags for sous vide, which means the
> lawyers have approved of the science.  Because sous vide (by
> definition) never exceeds 100C, breakdown of the plastic isn't an issue.
>
> Obviously, it's hard to pull a vacuum on a zip-lock bag, but it's not
> necessary. Put a small amount of a braising liquid in the bag with the
> meat or vegetables, then dunk the bag in water to force out the air, and
> zip. Small amounts of air aren't a problem, especially on long cooks.
>
> "Braising liquid" could just be water. I've also used ghee, tomato
> juice, various stocks, and more than a few weird combinations. It works
> somewhere between a braise and a marinade, as the temperature is also
> intermediate.
>
> Do drain the braising liquid when done, especially if you won't be
> eating it all promptly. Any acid in the liquid will continue to "cook",
> leaving a gooey and unpleasant texture.
>
> Today's example is a pork shoulder roast I put in on Saturday evening at
> 58C. I used spicy, low-sodium V-8 juice with a big dash of liquid smoke
> for the braise. It should come out medium rare and quite tender. I
> expect to slice off a few "steaks" and finish them on the grill for
> perhaps a minute per side. The rest I'll probably shred for Other Projects.
>
> There are two types of sous vide equipment. The most common is the
> immersion heater: These include a small pump for circulation, but you
> must provide a container and deal with the inevitable evaporation, a
> non-trivial issue for multi-day cooks. Many buy plastic coolers and cut
> a hole in the top for the heater.
>
> The other type goes by various names, I prefer "water oven". This is an
> insulated box with built-in heater, but no circulator pump. Convection
> appears to be fully sufficient. Best, with an aluminum cover, evaporated
> water condenses on the cover and drips back in, permitting up to 4-day
> cooks without adding water.
>
> The water oven has a fixed capacity, obviously. The immersion heater can
> be put in anything from a liter jug to a bathtub. Note that uninsulated
> bathtubs will require more than one heater to keep temperature. Water
> ovens can cost more, but consider the money saved by not buying a fancy
> bag sealer!
>
> One nice thing about the insulated water oven is that it puts off less
> heat while working than my coffee pot; something much appreciated here
> in Florida where the A/C runs year-round.
>
> The technique also works well for vegetables as well as meats, but not
> at the same time as veggies need higher temperatures. Meats 55-65C,
> veggies 75-85C.
>
> Lots of recipes and opinions available on request.
>
> Cheers,
> / Bruce /
>
>

Re: [silk] New member Intro: Jitendra (Jiten) Vaidya

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Charcoal smoke flavors 
And the stone heats up comparatively slowly 
You could replicate this with pizza stones and liquid smoke plus controlled 
temperature 


--srs

  



On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 10:32 AM -0800, "Jitendra Vaidya" 
 wrote:










Thank you for the welcome, Huda and Deepa.

Huda, "The Food Lab" looks quite interesting. Thank you for the
recommendation and yes, would love to get the recipes from your Mum.

"Patthar ka gosht" looks like a recipe I would like to try but the coal
used for heating the stone seems incidental as I do not see how it would
impart any flavor to the meat. I think a pizza stone in an oven will likely
work equally well.

Speaking of cooking techniques, has anybody tried Sous Vide? I would love
to try it but the thought of cooking food in a polyethylene bag for long
periods of time puts me off.

-Jiten

Re: [silk] New member Intro: Jitendra (Jiten) Vaidya

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

The ghosths of skillets past, so to speak?



--srs

  




On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 12:47 AM -0800, "Bhaskar Dasgupta" 
 wrote:










I’ve made this. Used a cast iron skillet But skillet ka ghosth doesn’t really 
have the same cachet. 

> On 24 Feb 2019, at 09:12, Suresh Ramasubramanian  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Start with paththar ka gosht - you technically need a hot stone but a 
> really thick tawa might help too
> https://m.recipes.timesofindia.com/recipes/patthar-ka-gosht/rs61829923.cms
>
>
> 
>--srs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 9:09 PM -0800, "Ra Jesh"  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have coal, willing to invest time. :-) Don't have any specific recipes in
> mind.
> 
> But having become pretty good with oven cooking and a range of stove top
> cooking, I'd love to learn a few Hyderabadi Mughlai (preferably beef,
> mutton or veg, not chicken) dishes.
> 
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 10:06 Suresh Ramasubramanian 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>What specific dishes do you have in mind? Keep in mind, a lot of
>> them need hours of cooking over a wood or charcoal fire for the taste
>> you're thinking of..
>> 
>> 
>>--srs (15 years in hyderabad so totally interested in where this
>> thread takes us)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 7:51 PM -0800, "Ra Jesh" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Huda, I Would also love Hyderabadi Mughlai recipes. Could you share on
>> the list itself?
>> 
>>> On Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 09:08 Huda Masood  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Welcome Jiten!
>>> 
>>> My current favourite cookbook is actually The Food Lab!
>>> 
>>> I might have a couple of recipes from my mum that you might like - she is
>>> hardcore about Hyderabadi mughlai food.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 24 Feb 2019, 01:30 Jitendra Vaidya,
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> 
>>>> Geetanjali's intro email reminded me that I have not sent mine, and so
>>> here
>>>> is a quick email about me.
>>>> 
>>>> I grew up in Aurangabad (Maharashtra), went to college in Bombay and
>>> moved
>>>> to the San Francisco bay area in early nineties. I am married, have two
>>>> kids and a pet cat.
>>>> 
>>>> For most of my career I have been a backend infrastructure engineer and
>>>> manager. But fun fact: I have also written an Android app that saw over
>>>> 100,000 downloads. I also did a short stint at the USDS (United States
>>>> Digital Service) in Washington DC. I am now the CEO of PlanetScale (
>>>> http://planetscale.com), a company I founded in early 2018. Our goal
>> is
>>> to
>>>> build a scalable multi-cloud transactional database-as-a-service based
>> on
>>>> the open source project Vitess (http://vitess.io).
>>>> 
>>>> I love to read. My all-time favorite prose author is probably Milan
>>>> Kundera. I also end up reading a lot of science fiction: in the last
>>> year I
>>>> have read Cory Doctorow, Liu Cixin and Neal Stephenson. Vernor Vinge is
>>> an
>>>> all-time favorite.
>>>> 
>>>> I also like to cook and make cocktails. The current cookbook I am
>>> browsing
>>>> and trying out recipes from is Asma Said Khan's "Asma's Indian Kitchen:
>>>> Home-cooked food brought to you by Darjeeling Express". The cocktail I
>>> like
>>>> to make and serve the most is Vesper Martini which I make with Gin,
>>> Vodka,
>>>> Dolin's Dry Vermouth and Cocchi Americano.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you Udhay for inviting me and look forward to stimulating
>>>> discussions.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jiten
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [silk] New member Intro: Jitendra (Jiten) Vaidya

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

Start with paththar ka gosht - you technically need a hot stone but a 
really thick tawa might help too
https://m.recipes.timesofindia.com/recipes/patthar-ka-gosht/rs61829923.cms



--srs

  




On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 9:09 PM -0800, "Ra Jesh"  wrote:










Have coal, willing to invest time. :-) Don't have any specific recipes in
mind.

But having become pretty good with oven cooking and a range of stove top
cooking, I'd love to learn a few Hyderabadi Mughlai (preferably beef,
mutton or veg, not chicken) dishes.

On Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 10:06 Suresh Ramasubramanian 
wrote:

>
>
>
> What specific dishes do you have in mind? Keep in mind, a lot of
> them need hours of cooking over a wood or charcoal fire for the taste
> you're thinking of..
>
>
> --srs (15 years in hyderabad so totally interested in where this
> thread takes us)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 7:51 PM -0800, "Ra Jesh" 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Hi Huda, I Would also love Hyderabadi Mughlai recipes. Could you share on
> the list itself?
>
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 09:08 Huda Masood  wrote:
>
> > Welcome Jiten!
> >
> > My current favourite cookbook is actually The Food Lab!
> >
> > I might have a couple of recipes from my mum that you might like - she is
> > hardcore about Hyderabadi mughlai food.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 24 Feb 2019, 01:30 Jitendra Vaidya,
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > Geetanjali's intro email reminded me that I have not sent mine, and so
> > here
> > > is a quick email about me.
> > >
> > > I grew up in Aurangabad (Maharashtra), went to college in Bombay and
> > moved
> > > to the San Francisco bay area in early nineties. I am married, have two
> > > kids and a pet cat.
> > >
> > > For most of my career I have been a backend infrastructure engineer and
> > > manager. But fun fact: I have also written an Android app that saw over
> > > 100,000 downloads. I also did a short stint at the USDS (United States
> > > Digital Service) in Washington DC. I am now the CEO of PlanetScale (
> > > http://planetscale.com), a company I founded in early 2018. Our goal
> is
> > to
> > > build a scalable multi-cloud transactional database-as-a-service based
> on
> > > the open source project Vitess (http://vitess.io).
> > >
> > > I love to read. My all-time favorite prose author is probably Milan
> > > Kundera. I also end up reading a lot of science fiction: in the last
> > year I
> > > have read Cory Doctorow, Liu Cixin and Neal Stephenson. Vernor Vinge is
> > an
> > > all-time favorite.
> > >
> > > I also like to cook and make cocktails. The current cookbook I am
> > browsing
> > > and trying out recipes from is Asma Said Khan's "Asma's Indian Kitchen:
> > > Home-cooked food brought to you by Darjeeling Express". The cocktail I
> > like
> > > to make and serve the most is Vesper Martini which I make with Gin,
> > Vodka,
> > > Dolin's Dry Vermouth and Cocchi Americano.
> > >
> > > Thank you Udhay for inviting me and look forward to stimulating
> > > discussions.
> > >
> > > -Jiten
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [silk] New member Intro: Jitendra (Jiten) Vaidya

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

What specific dishes do you have in mind? Keep in mind, a lot of them 
need hours of cooking over a wood or charcoal fire for the taste you're 
thinking of..


--srs (15 years in hyderabad so totally interested in where this thread 
takes us)

  



On Sat, Feb 23, 2019 at 7:51 PM -0800, "Ra Jesh"  wrote:










 Hi Huda, I Would also love Hyderabadi Mughlai recipes. Could you share on
the list itself?

On Sun, Feb 24, 2019, 09:08 Huda Masood  wrote:

> Welcome Jiten!
>
> My current favourite cookbook is actually The Food Lab!
>
> I might have a couple of recipes from my mum that you might like - she is
> hardcore about Hyderabadi mughlai food.
>
>
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2019, 01:30 Jitendra Vaidya, 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Geetanjali's intro email reminded me that I have not sent mine, and so
> here
> > is a quick email about me.
> >
> > I grew up in Aurangabad (Maharashtra), went to college in Bombay and
> moved
> > to the San Francisco bay area in early nineties. I am married, have two
> > kids and a pet cat.
> >
> > For most of my career I have been a backend infrastructure engineer and
> > manager. But fun fact: I have also written an Android app that saw over
> > 100,000 downloads. I also did a short stint at the USDS (United States
> > Digital Service) in Washington DC. I am now the CEO of PlanetScale (
> > http://planetscale.com), a company I founded in early 2018. Our goal is
> to
> > build a scalable multi-cloud transactional database-as-a-service based on
> > the open source project Vitess (http://vitess.io).
> >
> > I love to read. My all-time favorite prose author is probably Milan
> > Kundera. I also end up reading a lot of science fiction: in the last
> year I
> > have read Cory Doctorow, Liu Cixin and Neal Stephenson. Vernor Vinge is
> an
> > all-time favorite.
> >
> > I also like to cook and make cocktails. The current cookbook I am
> browsing
> > and trying out recipes from is Asma Said Khan's "Asma's Indian Kitchen:
> > Home-cooked food brought to you by Darjeeling Express". The cocktail I
> like
> > to make and serve the most is Vesper Martini which I make with Gin,
> Vodka,
> > Dolin's Dry Vermouth and Cocchi Americano.
> >
> > Thank you Udhay for inviting me and look forward to stimulating
> > discussions.
> >
> > -Jiten
> >
>

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

It is what keeps for example homeopathy in business so ..

On 05/02/19, 12:56 PM, "silklist on behalf of Srini RamaKrishnan" 
 wrote:

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 12:22 PM Deepa Agashe  wrote:

> As I see it, scientific understanding means that we have greater
> repeatability than expected by chance- i.e. the signal to noise ratio is
> high.


So is the placebo effect science? It is greater than expected by chance,
isn't it?

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

As long as a Martin Shkrell-esque big pharma is a convenient whipping boy that 
nobody objects to why at all spoil the argument by bringing cold logic into it?

On 05/02/19, 1:24 PM, "silklist on behalf of Deepa Agashe" 
 wrote:


> On 05-Feb-2019, at 13:02, Srini RamaKrishnan  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 12:22 PM Deepa Agashe mailto:daga...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>> and the fact that vaccines fail in 1% (or some such small fraction) of
>> humans does not make this understanding unscientific.
> 
> 
> 1% of a 100 million children is 1 million. Even 0.1% is 100,000 kids that
> will definitely have an adverse reaction. It's one thing to accept such
> odds with a terminal disease like cancer, but another matter to infect
> healthy kids with a disease.
> 

So if we have a chance to save 90 million kids we should rather let them 
die? 
It is clear that this is not an ideal situation, but it is how things 
stand. There are too many variables and we must simply do what we can, given 
the overwhelming odds against us being able to identify each and every one of 
them, and worse still, being able to measure each variable for each kid before 
we vaccinate. (I note that none of this makes the research itself unscientific- 
these are practical challenges for which you cannot blame scientists).


> Ideally human beings would be honest and self governed with a love for all
> humanity, but since they are not, fear is what keeps them in line. We
> simply don't have any consequences that scientists and policy makers fear
> enough. Heck even when they are caught with their hands in the cookie jar,
> the fines don't bankrupt companies.

Scientists are not the same as pharma companies. I don’t understand exactly 
what would you like scientists to do. 

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Known measurable failure rates
Failure rates that reduce based on periodic improvements in a vaccine + in 
clinical protocols
I fail to see what is unscientific here.

On 05/02/19, 11:53 AM, "silklist on behalf of Srini RamaKrishnan" 
 wrote:

Thanks to the many who wrote in to say that science is not the last word on
reality, we now see that science can be wrong, is always only the partial
truth, and the key is to be open to new ideas.

If we see that all of us; scientists and non-scientists alike are in the
business of understanding reality, then we see an equality of purpose.
Nobody has the last word. Equality, like sincerity of purpose and humility,
goodness, peace, aspiration etc. is a very good idea indeed.

Logic is not the only tool with which the human can make sense of reality,
if it was, the human race would be very poor indeed. Science then is no
different from other systems that seek to understand the truth of the
reality we live in.

There was the old testament and then came the new one, and then the
numerous interpretations thereof. Religion too is open to new truths. As is
any knowledge - when the 4 minute mile was first run it was a big deal, it
shattered a myth, now it is not nearly as impossible. Businessmen, authors,
gardeners etc. are each making progress in humanity's understanding of
purpose and finding better solutions to the problem of existence, or
enacting better or newer experiences of existence, along with making plenty
of mistakes along the way.

Dogma is not exclusive to religion, scientists can be dogmatic too,
violently resisting new ideas, like for example, the continental drift
theory, until finally relenting under the weight of evidence. It is human
nature to resist giving up hard won spoils.

Violence is a common impulse in man, maybe too common. We saw during the
cold war the two sides were extremely dogmatic about their position, and
would jail or kill anyone who supported a different idea.

It would be far easier to live in a dictatorship, there would be none of
the messy debate, yet we choose free societies that permit freedom of
religion, freedom of opinion, freedom of the vote. Why is freedom to
question science exempt? I cannot make everyone love the Mona Lisa and I
should not be able to make everyone love my idea.

Things like vaccination are tricky because they are not strictly science.
Science is repeatable, and things that don't work on everyone the same
don't strictly deserve the label of science. That doesn't mean they should
never be made mandatory, there merely has to be a very very high bar before
that is done, and if there are other motives besides the wellness of
humanity then that dilutes the case. Especially because like the death
sentence, the effects of it cannot be reversed.

A child in the sandbox is making discoveries, she is a scientist in her own
world, and her discoveries are just as important as that of any Nobel
Laureate. When we can see every human endeavor as brilliant and necessary,
then we enter the realm of equality - because reality is always subjective.

///

"Where the world ceases to be the scene of our personal hopes and wishes,
where we face it as free beings admiring, asking and observing, there we
enter the realm of Art and Science. If what is seen and experienced is
portrayed in the language of logic, we are engaged in science. If it is
communicated through forms whose connections are not accessible to the
conscious mind but recognized intuitively as meaningful, then we are
engaged in art. Common to both is the loving devotion to that which
transcends personal concern and volition."

Albert Einstein

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

The rabies vaccine has gone a long way from the 6 dose goat brain cultured 
vaccine to the new (as of 3 decades ago or more) chicken embryo cultured ones.

As for crowd diseases being benign and immunity, I'd suggest looking at either 
whooping cough or polio for counter examples.  Or German measles (rubella) - 
which, if a pregnant woman contracts it, is mild for her, but can and will 
cause severe retardation in her child.

Do update your research on pertussis though, the vaccine given these days is, 
in general, acellular.  Less long lasting than the whole cell one so needs 
booster shots, but much less likely to provoke reactions.

On 04/02/19, 1:50 AM, "silklist on behalf of Heather Madrone" 
 wrote:

Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote on 2/3/19 2:44 AM February 3, 2019:
> This leads me to the point I'm trying to make - the reason to accept
> science and its findings, warts and all, is simply because we are human 
and
> the scientific method is the best method of enquiry we have at our
> disposal. This obviously doesn't mean blind acceptance, but it does mean 
we
> ask for a preponderance of evidence which peer review (sometimes) 
supplies.
> The system is not perfect but that is a problem with actors in it who are
> unfortunately human. Add to this the last para of Heather's response on
> whether we can ever truly know something.
> 
> [1]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_figures
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision

It's also the reason to question science and its findings, warts and 
all. It's the scientific method all the way down. Checking past work and 
assumptions is part of it.

"Measure three times and cut once" is from carpentry, not science, but 
it's a valid practice when making any irreversible change. New evidence 
comes in all the time. It's worth taking a breath to ask whether we are 
on course.

This gets muddier when you have interested actors (and we always do) on 
both sides of the scientific equation. There are always people who try 
to force-map available data to get the conclusions they want, and it can 
be very difficult to tell when they're doing so.

Pharmaceutical companies have a long history of massaging, suppressing, 
and manufacturing results so they can bring drugs profitably to market.

I did my vaccine research after my daughter had a life-threatening 
reaction to the whole-cell pertussis vaccine.

I discovered that vaccines are not a monolithic issue. The tetanus 
vaccine, for example, is a safe and effective preventative of a horrible 
disease that lies in wait in the soil everywhere around us. It's usually 
quite long-lasting as well. WWII soldiers who were vaccinated against 
tetanus exhibited immunity over 50 years later.

The crowd disease vaccines, on the other hand, share the distinction of 
being much less effective at conferring immunity, shorter-lived, and 
with more side effects. Many of the crowd diseases are largely benign in 
healthy children and confer lifelong immunity. The diseases are bad news 
for pregnant women and people with immune disorders, but it's not clear 
that vaccinating healthy children against these diseases is our best 
public health option.

Some public health officials agree that it might be better policy to 
vaccinate against many diseases at puberty and again in early adulthood, 
but they can't enforce vaccination of teens and adults. Young children 
are a captive audience, though, so they are repeatedly vaccinated 
against the crowd diseases, which don't pose a particular threat to 
their health, and also against hepatitis B and HPV, which they are 
extremely unlikely to contract. Meanwhile the adults who should be 
vaccinated against those diseases mostly aren't.

We don't yet have longterm data on the effects of our current aggressive 
vaccine policy. How do repeated doses of a wide variety of vaccines 
affect the health of individuals over 50, 75, 100 years? How long do the 
vaccines confer immunity? What percentage of the population remains 
susceptible to the disease after aggressive vaccination as opposed to 
after natural immunity to the endemic disease?

About 15 years ago, we discovered a bat colony inside our chimney as 
well as a bat bite on my shoulder. The rabies vaccine is not 
particularly safe. It requires 6 doses that cause flu-like symptoms over 
the course of a month. Rabies was then invariably fatal. The whole 
family received all six doses of the rabies vaccine, and we were 
grateful for it, flu-like symptoms and all.

When I was a child, doctors ordered up x-rays for every minor mishap and 
handed out antibiotics like candy. "Better safe than sorry," they'd say, 
completely unaware of the effects 

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

WHO has defined vaccine protocols that address your concern 
Also the supposed individual risk from vaccines is vanishingly rare and this is 
well documented too 
Plus some of the things most vaccine deniers allege have never yet been backed 
with data 



--srs

  




On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 9:33 AM +0530, "Ra Jesh"  wrote:










I think the main problem in the vaccine 'system' is that there is the
collective societal benefit and risk and there is individual benefit and
risk and the two are conjoined.

But unlike some other systems, the collective societal benefit can only be
realized by people forcibly taking on the individual risk. If individuals
opt out because the individual risk benefit equation doesn't work for them,
the collective societal benefit ceases to exist.

I can't think of any other similar system that doesn't become oppressive at
some level. E.g. Nation state, armed forces, universal education, etc etc.

So, if the above is true then the vaccine system is oppressive at least to
some people.

When you layer this with the fact that the societal necessity for vaccines
is discussed as an absolute with not much nuance about what vaccines are
absolutely necessary and what vaccines are kind of optional, then the
oppression becomes more insidious.

If a parent is 'encouraged' to give their child a vaccine that's actually
not mandatory but it's couched in a list of other mandatory vaccines to
make the parent believe it's mandatory...

At this level, it is a breakdown of the system. 'Science' cedes this
terrain to politics and claims innocence. But when people fight back about
the politics, science is held up as the holy cow to be protected.

On Sun, Feb 3, 2019, 09:17 Udhay Shankar N  On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 10:36 PM 
Srini RamaKrishnan 
> wrote:
>
> Similarly there are kids who get polio solely because of the vaccine,
> > Vaccine-derived
> > polioviruses (VDPVs). No one disputes this, but now it becomes a
> > philosophical question whether even one victim is one too many. Guess
> which
> > side the drug companies are on?
> >
>
> Any risk analysis needs to start with the question "what is the threat
> model?". Similarly, any solution design needs to start with "Don't make
> things worse" (the Hippocratic principle can be viewed as a special case of
> this).
>
> In the above context, the threat model is not "one victim", but "potential
> pandemic".
>
> Without going into attenuated vs. killed vaccines, I agree that kids
> getting polio from vaccines is a bad thing. It is a special case of "kids
> getting polio" which the vaccine is an attempt to fight against. Can that
> be improved? Sure. I believe you are sincere in dismissing it. I just don't
> happen to agree.
>
> Udhay
>

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Add to what Charles said - Science is observable, testable and repeatable.  
Which means you can observe x, test your hypothesis of what (y) causes x and 
you can + others can repeat y leading to x.

This means that for something like vaccination for which you have several 
generations of scientific data, you had better come up with actual data 
supporting a different hypothesis rather than a rational seeming request to see 
all sides of a particular situation.

On 03/02/19, 2:08 AM, "silklist on behalf of Charles Haynes" 
 wrote:

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 14:23, Srini RamaKrishnan  wrote:

The goal of applied science is not the truth. Since world war 1 the goal of
> "science" has been subverted to find applications that can be monetized:
> this can be called technology or engineering but not science.
>

So you're saying the goal of technology or engineering is to make money, I
can agree with that. The "goal" of science is still to try to make testable
predictions about the observable world. Always has been.


> Those with the real scientific temper cannot accept a solution that still
> has open questions,


What you call "open questions" I would call "unexplained observations" or
"untested hypotheses."


> We largely don't fund "science", worldwide, we fund technology 
development.
> We've hardly made any fundamental breakthroughs in understanding reality 
in
> the last few decades


It's not at all clear that science "attempts to understand reality." The
idea that there is an underlying "reality" to be understood is an
interesting hypothesis, but it's sounds like "hidden variables" which has
been conclusively disproved.

In any case, while the claim is subjective, I'd argue that we've actually
made quite a few fundamental scientific breakthroughs, especially in
nuclear physics, astrophysics, medicine, and mathematics.


> Science is fundamentally about healthy disagreement and debate over the
> truth until it is conclusively found with no room for argument.
>

That's flat out wrong. Science *never* "conclusively finds truth." Not
ever. That's religion, not science. Science merely comes up with "the best"
explanation for current observations and makes predictions about the
results of future observations. Science *always* includes the possibility
of observations that contradict our current understanding.


> There's a club of 500 eminent researchers in the field and doctors
> including Nobel laureate Kary Mullis (the inventor of the PCR test) who
> insist, vehemently so, that there's no proof that AIDS is caused by HIV.
>

Kary Mullis has never actually done any scientific research in AIDS or HIV.
He also believes in Astrology.


> These are unquestionable experts in the field
>

They are not experts in the field of HIV or AIDS.

These are not crazy flat Earthers.
>

Actually they are. HIV as the causative agent of AIDS is solid science.


> Such open questions are routinely brushed under the carpet,


Nope. They've been addressed, and in the case of HIV/AIDS thoroughly
refuted.


> Science must also look seriously at the idea that there's no such thing as
> objective reality,


It does, depending what you mean by your definition of "objective reality."
The Copenhagen interpretation says that "reality" is created by
observeration. I'm personally not a fan of the Copenhagen interpretation
but it's certainly a part of mainstream science.

-- Charles

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

one study indicates that measles can "erase" a person's other 
immunities, leaving them vulnerable to infections for 2-3 years 
afterwardhttps://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/05/07/404963436/scientists-crack-a-50-year-old-mystery-about-the-measles-vaccine




--srs

  




On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 4:22 PM +0530, "Suresh Ramasubramanian" 
 wrote:











  
  


Research says that even malnourished kids benefit by the  way
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4527386/
And that's not the only nonsense hegde spouts besides quoting other charlatans 
in this space like Gary Null
Here are a couple of rebuttals you can read 
http://nirmukta.com/2012/06/17/science-is-not-the-enemy-dr-hegde/
And then this by Dr Balasubramanian of LV Prasad Eye Institute and former head 
of the CCMB in Hyderabad for decades - one of the most articulate writers on 
science in india 
https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/open-page/medicinebashing-is-too-much-with-us/article4728002.ece
Hegde is a fraud - no question about it 


--srs

  



On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 4:06 PM +0530, "Srini RamaKrishnan"  wrote:










https://www.moneylife.in/article/science-and-politics-of-vaccines/36886.html

The more I read I find his stand on vaccination very reasonable, he merely
says giving vaccines to malnourished children is dangerous. A full stomach
is better than a vaccine at preventing infection.

I thought you had done your research Suresh, so I didn't check earlier.

On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 3:50 PM Srini RamaKrishnan  On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 1:32 PM 
Suresh Ramasubramanian  wrote:
>
>> There is absolutely no open mind possible for vaccine deniers. And they
>> cause far too much harm to be anything other than dismissed outright. I am
>> sorry if we disagree on that matter.
>>
>
> Before you completely close your mind I'd like to know what you know of
> his talks?
>
> The only bit on vaccination I could find was this,
> https://youtu.be/Pi4mpCmiTGg
>
> Which doesn't sound like vaccine denial at all.
>
>
>

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  


Research says that even malnourished kids benefit by the  way
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4527386/
And that's not the only nonsense hegde spouts besides quoting other charlatans 
in this space like Gary Null
Here are a couple of rebuttals you can read 
http://nirmukta.com/2012/06/17/science-is-not-the-enemy-dr-hegde/
And then this by Dr Balasubramanian of LV Prasad Eye Institute and former head 
of the CCMB in Hyderabad for decades - one of the most articulate writers on 
science in india 
https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/open-page/medicinebashing-is-too-much-with-us/article4728002.ece
Hegde is a fraud - no question about it 


--srs

  



On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 4:06 PM +0530, "Srini RamaKrishnan"  
wrote:










https://www.moneylife.in/article/science-and-politics-of-vaccines/36886.html

The more I read I find his stand on vaccination very reasonable, he merely
says giving vaccines to malnourished children is dangerous. A full stomach
is better than a vaccine at preventing infection.

I thought you had done your research Suresh, so I didn't check earlier.

On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 3:50 PM Srini RamaKrishnan  On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 1:32 PM 
Suresh Ramasubramanian  wrote:
>
>> There is absolutely no open mind possible for vaccine deniers. And they
>> cause far too much harm to be anything other than dismissed outright. I am
>> sorry if we disagree on that matter.
>>
>
> Before you completely close your mind I'd like to know what you know of
> his talks?
>
> The only bit on vaccination I could find was this,
> https://youtu.be/Pi4mpCmiTGg
>
> Which doesn't sound like vaccine denial at all.
>
>
>

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

There is absolutely no open mind possible for vaccine deniers. And they cause 
far too much harm to be anything other than dismissed outright. I am sorry if 
we disagree on that matter.

Doctor qualifications or not, he's now a full blown quack.

On 01/02/19, 1:04 PM, "silklist on behalf of Srini RamaKrishnan" 
 wrote:

On Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 1:00 PM Srini  RamaKrishnan  You've got to keep an open mind about these things, listen to his talks,
he's astonishingly bright.

I have to add that he's ethical and noble in his quest to find the truth,
something I'd never accuse drug companies of.

>

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

BM Hegde is a full blown anti vaxxer Why is any credence at all being 
paid to his claims?



--srs

  




On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 9:35 AM +0530, "Srini RamaKrishnan"  
wrote:










The respected medical journal Lancet is named after the knife used to lance
boils - and this was the specific metaphor the journal founder intended to
convey, to bring a modicum of scientific rigor to the work of medicine
which he felt was a messy boil on the face of humanity, full of half truths
and lies. This was 1823.

Cut to the present, and we see that for the last ten or twenty years well
respected Doctors, Professors and even editors of journals like Lancet have
repeatedly sounded the warning bell and warned that more than half the
studies they publish in their peer reviewed journals can't be trusted.

Then we see Pharma companies like Pfizer and GSK alone have paid more than
8 billion dollars each in the last two decades as malpractice settlements
in the US alone, but I don't see anyone calling them quacks. They literally
budget 1-2% of their revenue for future legal settlements annually. When
expecting to get caught pulling a con, and setting aside money for fines is
part of the business model, we have come a long way from science. It's just
business. Not service. Not science. They even continue to sell drugs that
have been banned or declared harmful in gullible parts of the world where
the law is yet to wake up. That is the very definition of a con artist, who
moves to new markets where the marks are still stupid.

The modern drug industry is clutching at straws - after billions of dollars
in research they have been forced to admit that the placebo effect is the
most effective drug in their arsenal, and they don't know how it works.

There is a point at which some people wake up to the fact that the practice
of institutional medicine is one of the biggest cons. For instance, Dr. B M
Hegde, is a world renowned cardiologist and a Padma Bhushan awardee who has
spoken out repeatedly against the modern medical business that pushes
invasive bypass surgeries, angioplasties and stents, which he says shorten
lives and reduce quality of life - he advocates instead calming the mind
using meditation and relaxation to accept death, and to allow the heart to
naturally route around blockages.

There's a tendency among Nobel laureates to think out of the box because
they finally have nothing to lose. Incidentally Dr. Rustum Roy is said to
have been nominated several times. Science cannot be science when it is
wedded to money and power - it doesn't matter how brilliant you are, if you
don't please the people with the purse you may as well rot. To speak truth
to power requires courage, which is impossible when you are a slave.

When you ignore this reality you find out the hard way what it costs - as
with Dr. C. V. Raman, the 1930 winner of the Nobel prize in Chemistry who
antagonized the ruling elite, especially Nehru and was expelled from IISC
for not being political enough. He reportedly smashed his Bharat Ratna
repeatedly with a hammer and gave up Chemistry, instead he taught his
neighbor's children Carnatic music in his last decades, and hung a board
outside his house - "No politicians allowed" - which mainly fingered the
politicians that filled the boards of research institutes, but also the
actual politicians who were their puppet masters.

Most scientists today spend more than half or 3/4ths of their time on
non-research activities, such as grant applications, networking,
administrative affairs, and teaching. What little time is left is spent on
the cargo cult ritual of publishing papers only on topics that were funded
for being normative, and that stand the best chance of not being rejected
for being too brave.

Medicine is about the whole human - not just the body, but also the mind
and the spirit. I think too many are still addicted to the opiate of
accepted wisdom.

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

cf https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html
And yet Oregon State's Pauling institute still publishes nonsense like this 
https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/health-disease/common-cold





--srs

  




On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 9:11 PM +0530, "Charles Haynes" 
 wrote:










I was about to say that I'm very much reminded of Linus Pauling, when he
mentioned that he's a disciple of Linus Pauling.

It's quite sad when a respected intellect in one field thinks that makes
them an expert in unrelated fields and then promulgates nonsense like
Pauling did.

-- Charles

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 10:55, Srini RamaKrishnan  wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 9:52 AM Vani Murarka 
> wrote:
>
> >  Deeply appreciative of the discussion going on here at present, the muck
> > in science and in religion being called out.
> >
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es5lfOeobAs
>
> I came across this excellent talk by Dr. Rustum Roy today. He's a
> celebrated materials researcher who tried to do real ground breaking
> science, and not just please the funding agency.
>

Re: [silk] From 35 years ago, Asimov's predictions for 2019 (and anxperiment for this list)

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

Given I've spent since the late 90s around large email services I 
heartily endorse your prediction zero. Mainframes will be even longer lived.
Though, other than work, newsletters / bills and the occasional personal mail, 
lists like lucretius are all that I use email for these days.  Person to person 
mail has become incredibly rare for me over the years.
With all the big data and 360 insight direction the world is moving towards we 
seem to have a bare choice of features, one orwellian and the other neo 
luddite, rejecting all technology in favor of privacy.



--srs

  




On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 2:51 AM +0530, "Peter Griffin"  
wrote:










https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018/12/27/35-years-ago-isaac-asimov-was-asked-by-the-star-to-predict-the-world-of-2019-here-is-what-he-wrote.html
lf we look into the world as it may be at the end of another generation,
let’s say 2019 — that’s 35 years from now, the same number of years since
1949 when George Orwell’s 1984 was first published — three considerations
must dominate our thoughts: 1. Nuclear war. 2. Computerization. 3. Space
utilization.

Experiment for this list.
Take a bash at this yourself. Let's give you a shorter horizon than The
Star gave Asimov: 28 years, which will be 99 years after Orwell wrote 1984,
and when India will have turned 101, and more importantly, this list will
have turned 50.

What are your predictions for 2048?

(Prediction 0 is, I guess, that email will still be around in 2048, and so
will this list, though I will almost certainly not be.)

All the very best for the new year and the next 28 years, y'all.

~peter

Re: [silk] Legal adulthood

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  



There is one worthy on the list who will surely agree with you

--srs

  



On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 7:05 PM +0530, "Nishant Shah"  
wrote:










I got excited at the thought of edibles on a silk party. Then i realised
you were talking of food. On other notes, the other edibles are also
strictly speaking, vegetarian. I do not champion this because I live in the
NL (I actually don't consume them myselves), but the thought of seeing a
collection of silksters high, is tickling my funny bones.

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 7:34 AM Udhay Shankar N  wrote:

> Quick reminder, for those planning to bring edibles: Vinit/Surabhi run a
> vegetarian household.
>
> See you folks tomorrow evening!
>
> Udhay
>


-- 
Dr. Nishant Shah (Ph.D.)
Director (Research), Centre for Internet and Society,Bangalore, India (
www.cis-india.org )
International Tandem Partner, Inkubator - Leuphana University, Lueneburg,
Germany
# +49-0176-841-660-87
http://www.facebook.com/nishant.shah
http://cis-india.academia.edu/NishantShah

Re: [silk] Legal adulthood

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Being vegetarian on his birthday is a very small sacrifice to make for the fun 
he'll have (

Convince him!!

On 19/12/18, 6:06 PM, "silklist on behalf of Shrabonti Bagchi" 
 wrote:

Damn -- looks like I messed up dates (again). It's ALSO the husband's
birthday tomorrow. Trying to convince him partying with Silklisters isn't a
bad idea.



On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 12:04 PM Udhay Shankar N  wrote:

> Quick reminder, for those planning to bring edibles: Vinit/Surabhi run a
> vegetarian household.
>
> See you folks tomorrow evening!
>
> Udhay
>


-- 
*Features Editor, Mint *
*Twitter: @shrabonti *
*Instagram: @shrabonti*
*Phone: +91-9880536562*

Re: [silk] Legal adulthood

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

I'm in.  And I think I only joined in around 2000 or so.

On 14/12/18, 2:59 PM, "silklist on behalf of Bharath Chari" 
 wrote:

On 12/14/18 6:43 AM, Udhay Shankar N wrote:
> Next week, silklist will be 21 years old. Whee!
>
> Folks in Bangalore, meetup? Thursday 20 Dec seems most workable at this
> point (I am traveling starting Friday 21 Dec). Vinit and Surabhi have
> kindly offered to host at their place, which has seen many memorable
> silkmeets in the past, including the first silklist baby. :)
>
> Show of hands for Thursday 20 Dec meetup?
>
> Udhay
>
Wow! Didn't realize that. Yeah, December 1997. How many of the original
crew are still around here?

Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  


  
  
  


A dread and hatred of time is ubiquitous in Shakespeare's sonnets - 
even in the ones that are about love.  So more than one undergrad has written 
papers on the themes of time and love in the sonnets ++ there are several peer 
reviewed journal articles on the same theme.
But then time seems to be a popular trope for poets from around the world.
https://www.rekhta.org/Top-20-waqt-shayari
guzarne hī na dī vo raat maiñ neghaḌī par rakh diyā thā haath maiñ neWaqt,  
VisaalSHAHZAD AHMAD
I did not want that night to end at allSo much so that I put my hand on the 
clock 


--srs

  




On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 12:39 AM +0530, "Heather Madrone"  
wrote:










Ashim D'Silva wrote on 10/12/18 8:45 AM October 12, 2018:
> It’s well summarised in the oft misrepresented Frost poem:

I often hear the claim that the poem is misrepresented, but I don't know 
how people who actually read the poem can misinterpret it. Or even that 
poetry can be misinterpreted. There's a lot there, under the hood. The 
reader brings their own knowledge and experience to bear, and so 
interpretations multiply.

The poem twists and turns back on itself, now saying one thing and then, 
in the next breath, saying the opposite. Catch it from one angle, it 
seems to say one thing. Shift your perspective, and it says something else.

"I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference" 
is the punch line, surely, and therefore the bit to quote to invoke the 
rest of the poem, and to prompt people to go and read it again.

The roads are pretty much of a muchness, covering much the same 
territory, and with pretty much equal traffic. It's a nothing choice, 
but it's the only choice the traveler can make, and so it makes all the 
difference.

A lot of choices are like that, and we are constrained to make just one. 
The process that Frost describes is universal and familiar, and I am 
often left wondering whether the man was a genius or a just a hack 
clever enough to repackage our truisms for us. (Which might be the mark 
of his genius.)

I think the big reveal in the last stanza is the repeated "I." Like he 
started to end the poem one way, changed his mind, and then decided to 
finish with a flourish.

Frost was a populist poet. He knew what the public wanted, and he tended 
to give it to them. Wherever his poems venture, he knew he had to tuck 
his readers in for the night in the last stanza.

The couplet is a hard habit to break.

I've been re-reading Shakespeare's sonnets. Between bouts of savoring 
the man's way with words, I am struck how every single one of 
Shakespeare's sonnets is about his implacable enemy, Time.

I studied haiku for some years, and have some appreciation for how 
deeply wabi and sabi are ingrained in the art form. It gave me a start
to recognize these deeply Zen principles in Shakespeare.

I have been wondering whether you can actually write poetry without 
invoking them. You capture the moment, and the images, but they are 
gone. Any good poem makes the reader feel that loss.

> *I shall be telling this with a sigh*
> *Somewhere ages and ages hence:*
> *Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—*
> *I took the one less traveled by,*
> *And that has made all the difference.*
> 
> The first line is generally omitted, practically reversing the meaning of
> the poem and proving his point.

What does that sigh mean to you? Is he wistful that he no longer has 
that moment of choice and freedom, that he had to close down all the 
possibilities of the road not taken by choosing the other? Do you think 
he thinks he made the wrong choice? Is it a sigh of acceptance or smug 
satisfaction?

And what do you see as his point? It seems to me that he has many, and 
that he is a skillful-enough juggler of words to keep them all in the 
air at the same time.

> I do additionally object to devaluing an artistic work because it is done
> for money. The story of the artist depressed and in poverty has so consumed
> our collective psyche we expect artist to not be paid for their time. We
> see this in the piracy of movies and music or in the promise of working for
> “exposure”.

There's also a sense in which this can be seen as elitist, in that only 
those who are independently wealthy can have true artistic freedom. 
Beyonce' and Taylor Swift can be true artists, but the graphic designers 
who create the small artistic details of our daily lives are just wage 
slaves.

> The current art world is its own awful mix of capitalism gone mad and
> exclusionary barriers of entry and so I can’t defend its excesses either. I
> guess I have to remain stuck in the middle and confused. It doesn’t help
> that Banksy recently both sold a piece at a record price, and then
> destroyed it before the sale leading to the question of whether the
> destroyed piece is worth more or less now!

It shredded itself right after the sale was final, as it was unhooked 
from the wall. It was 

Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

It was within less than a minute after he'd sat down to 'meditate'.

So unless he slipped into some extremely deep yogic state within seconds after 
shutting his eyes .. 

On 12/10/18, 9:38 PM, "silklist on behalf of Srini RamaKrishnan" 
 wrote:

It's quite likely he may have been doing his meditation properly. Digestive
turbulence during intense Yoga is common if the digestive tract isn't
empty, 

Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

So do I!  My immediate reaction when I see that sort of getup is to 
check whether my wallet is still in my pants pocket.



--srs

  




On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 10:11 AM +0530, "Deepa Mohan"  
wrote:










Enjoyed this account very much!

I find that I unconsciously judge people on the basis of things like
prominent streaks of vibhuti or sandal paste, astrologically significant
rings, flowing matted locks, and other external accoutrements. I  find that
this is my mental conditioning due to the "dressing up" of many
quackreligious people...but since I should not judge thus, I am schooling
myself not to do so.

Still, it is hard to not to equate things like large quantities of
rudraksha malas with the kind of people who are right now providing
amazingly entertaining videos while sitting, smiling beatifically, on
silver thrones, with silver sceptres in their hands...

Cheeni is, in many ways, my guru. There is not a single conversation with
him which does not lead me to re-examine many of my ideas and beliefs...and
sometimes see that I am as ignorant, or prejudiced as those whom I hold to
be so.  He allows me to throw light into my own mind...and to me, that is
what a guru is.

Deepa.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 10:00 AM Suresh Ramasubramanian 
wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Well that was remarkably philosophical - and sincerely felt. More
> power to you.
> The one thing I remember about the Aurobindo Ashram after being an on
> again off again visitor over the past two decades (my wife's family are
> believers and I'm normally elected to drive them across)..
> This was around 2005 or so, we were at the ashram and this six foot tall
> man with a magnificent mustache, ostentatiously dressed in simple looking
> but designer khadi, his fingers festooned with navaratna rings (with nine
> gemstones, supposedly very astrologically significant) came in, sat in
> front of the Samadhi in a rigid yogic meditation type pose and proceed to
> meditate, to the general admiration of all.
> A couple of minutes into this grand performance and the man let out a
> loud, long, thundering fart, (which sounded even louder because silence is
> requested and adhered to in the ashram premises), looked around him with a
> suddenly embarrassed face and beat a hasty retreat to, presumably, the
> nearest restroom.
> I always wondered after that incident whether the mother - or more likely
> Aurobindo, who being a bengali before becoming a saint, was doubtless well
> acquainted with rich feasts and a wide range of digestive medication (and
> this is something that is proverbial among the bengalis and depicted in
> movies and popular culture) was having a gentle joke at the expense of that
> ostentatious 'devotee'.
>
>
>
>
> --srs
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 9:28 AM +0530, "Srini RamaKrishnan" <
> che...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 9:05 PM Manu Bhardwaj  wrote:
> [...]
> > Your Google logo is of The Mother (
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirra_Alfassa)! Are you also an alumnus of
> > Sri Aurobindo Memorial School, Bangalore? I remember/realised that Udhay
> is
> > one too, so this list might have many more.
>
> I was not a student there, I connected with The Mother about 11 or 12 years
> ago when I visited her Samadhi in Pondicherry, though obviously I had heard
> of her before, as many have, at least in this region of India.
>
> As to why I added her photo to my DP, that was merely an act of intuition,
> or inspiration. For many years now most of my life isn't led with thought
> or logic, if I feel inspired to do something I do it.
>
> If I had to supply a post-hoc logic to it, it would go something like this.
>
> I generally don't have any photo on my profile. While messing around with
> my Google profile settings the other day a thought occurred that rather
> than having that space remain empty there might be a way to make it useful.
> I looked around in my device and found The Mother's picture, which I
> promptly added.
>
> In every photograph or creative work of a person, something of the
> consciousness of the person is present. This may not be immediately
> apparent, but this is often why humans pay millions for some paintings that
> look like a disaster. Something stirs deep inside when we look at powerful
> images, hear powerful sounds, experience powerful vibrations, and this
> photo of The Mother can do that.
>
> Many Saints carry such an aura, Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
>
> for example, is another image I could have used. I didn't want an image
> that triggered religious or sectarian pre-conceptions. We lose o

Re: [silk] The Mother [was: Capitalism and Climate Change]

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

  
  
  

Well that was remarkably philosophical - and sincerely felt. More power 
to you.
The one thing I remember about the Aurobindo Ashram after being an on again off 
again visitor over the past two decades (my wife's family are believers and I'm 
normally elected to drive them across)..
This was around 2005 or so, we were at the ashram and this six foot tall man 
with a magnificent mustache, ostentatiously dressed in simple looking but 
designer khadi, his fingers festooned with navaratna rings (with nine 
gemstones, supposedly very astrologically significant) came in, sat in front of 
the Samadhi in a rigid yogic meditation type pose and proceed to meditate, to 
the general admiration of all.    
A couple of minutes into this grand performance and the man let out a loud, 
long, thundering fart, (which sounded even louder because silence is requested 
and adhered to in the ashram premises), looked around him with a suddenly 
embarrassed face and beat a hasty retreat to, presumably, the nearest restroom.
I always wondered after that incident whether the mother - or more likely 
Aurobindo, who being a bengali before becoming a saint, was doubtless well 
acquainted with rich feasts and a wide range of digestive medication (and this 
is something that is proverbial among the bengalis and depicted in movies and 
popular culture) was having a gentle joke at the expense of that ostentatious 
'devotee'.




--srs

  




On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 9:28 AM +0530, "Srini RamaKrishnan"  
wrote:










On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 9:05 PM Manu Bhardwaj  wrote:
[...]
> Your Google logo is of The Mother (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirra_Alfassa)! Are you also an alumnus of
> Sri Aurobindo Memorial School, Bangalore? I remember/realised that Udhay
is
> one too, so this list might have many more.

I was not a student there, I connected with The Mother about 11 or 12 years
ago when I visited her Samadhi in Pondicherry, though obviously I had heard
of her before, as many have, at least in this region of India.

As to why I added her photo to my DP, that was merely an act of intuition,
or inspiration. For many years now most of my life isn't led with thought
or logic, if I feel inspired to do something I do it.

If I had to supply a post-hoc logic to it, it would go something like this.

I generally don't have any photo on my profile. While messing around with
my Google profile settings the other day a thought occurred that rather
than having that space remain empty there might be a way to make it useful.
I looked around in my device and found The Mother's picture, which I
promptly added.

In every photograph or creative work of a person, something of the
consciousness of the person is present. This may not be immediately
apparent, but this is often why humans pay millions for some paintings that
look like a disaster. Something stirs deep inside when we look at powerful
images, hear powerful sounds, experience powerful vibrations, and this
photo of The Mother can do that.

Many Saints carry such an aura, Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi

for example, is another image I could have used. I didn't want an image
that triggered religious or sectarian pre-conceptions. We lose our
innocence when we approach things with a preconception of what it is. Those
unfamiliar with The Mother I hoped would be able to look at the image with
a curiosity, maybe they'd assume she's my grand mother? In that moment of
innocence something remarkable can happen.

When I didn't know as much about these things, I would be struck by some
experiences, unable to explain them logically. Many years ago I was in
Amsterdam, and I used to spend hours in front of a single painting by Van
Gogh, and mere minutes in front of the works of Rembrandt. I couldn't tell
you exactly why then, but it was clear to me that Van Gogh put his heart
into his paintings. Now Rembrandt was not a bad painter by any means, but
he didn't care about his work like Van Gogh, he did care, very much, about
being successful. This intuition I learned much later was true when I read
his life history, he liked to make money off his paintings, and so cared
about customer satisfaction. Van Gogh died in poverty.

I had the same experience years earlier in graduate school. I was at
Carnegie Mellon, a top school for computer science, better in every
materialistic measurement, but it just failed to inspire me like my days in
the early Linux/FLOSS community. I found not many actually cared about the
ideas they worked on, their primary focus was success, ambition and a
desire to be unrivalled among peers. Their creative energies lacked heart.
Of course, I did learn valuable lessons from this fierce energy of success
too. All the same, it was not what I came to CMU to learn.

I later made this heart centered approach to life the very essence of my
life, and this led me to radically change my life, though again it was less
a conscious choice, and more an 

Re: [silk] Chickpea Recipes, was: How much time do you spend cooking?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

TMI sorry, but my least favorite thing to do with chickpeas is deal with the 
inevitable gas and bloating that follows.

Anything for a little protein I guess.

On 05/09/18, 8:47 AM, "silklist on behalf of Thaths" 
 wrote:

My favorite things to do with Chickpeas:

1. Chole Masala (lots of recipes online)

2. Sundal (a type of salad that could be eaten by itself as a snack or with
chapati/rice). My family recipe:

1 cup of chickpeas soaked overnight and cooked till just tender (or one
can, drained and washed)
1 inch of ginger (grated)
2 tbsp of grated coconut
2 tbsp vegetable or coconut oil
1 tsp urad dhal (black gram dhal)
1 tsp black or brown mustard seeds
1 green chili (stem and seeds removed if you want something less fiery)
1 tsp salt
4-5 sprigs of cilantro (chopped)
6-7 curry leaves (optional)
2 tbsp young mango (chopped into tiny pieces with skin) (optional)
0.25 tsp asafetida (optional)
Juice of 0.5 lime or lemon

Grind together coarsely the grated coconut, ginger and green chili. Heat
the oil in a wok/pan and add mustard seeds and urad dhal. When mustard
seeds start crackling add the curry leaves and asafetida. Add the chickpeas
and salt and toss to coat evenly. Add the coarsely ground things and toss
some more.  Sprinkle with cilantro. Serve with dressing of lemon/lime juice

3. Hummus

S.



On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 1:57 PM Bruce A. Metcalf 
wrote:

> Heather Madrone wrote:
>
> > I figure that, if I cook chickpeas one day a week, the supply will
> > last close to 15 years.
> >
> > I have quite a few chickpea recipes and can alter other recipes to
> > include chickpeas, but I'd welcome a few more to round out my
> > repertoire.
>
> Rehydrate, toss in a hot wok with a bit of flavored oil and cook until
> nearly dry. Makes a nice quick hot snack. Not sure if it makes a good
> cold snack -- never made a batch that lasted that long.
>
> I normally use the oil left over from cooking Firecracker Shrimp: Clean
> large shrimp, remove shell and tail, and skewer from the tail end to
> hold straight. Dip in Sriracha, dust with corn starch, and dip into a
> hot oil bath for 30 to 40 seconds. Works even better with tempura
> batter, but I've not been able to figure that out yet. Big hit with my
> hot-palated wife, but it leaves behind a lot of Sriracha-flavored oil.
>
> Cheers,
> / Bruce /
>
>

Re: [silk] How much time do you spend cooking?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

I can't stop recommending this. 
https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/01/vegan-garbanzos-con-espinacas-jengibre-spinach-chickpea-stew-ginger-spanish.html

On 05/09/18, 1:30 AM, "silklist on behalf of Heather Madrone" 
 wrote:

Udhay Shankar N wrote on 9/3/18 8:05 PM September 3, 2018:
> How much time here do people spend actually cooking the food they eat? To
> make the data more useful, calculate the time you spent over the past week
> in total.

I probably average 2 hours a day, but over the past week it's been 4. My 
eldest was staying with us before flying away to graduate school in 
Scotland. Last week, I cooked all the family favorites. #2 child is 
working in the area after finishing her undergraduate degree. She's been 
home weekends, and I've been cooking extra for her to eat during the week.

I work from home, and still have two college-student sons living at home.

My daughter worked as a research assistant on a drought-tolerant 
chickpea genetics project at school. Each year's data yielded several 
tons of chickpeas from strains that come from all over the world. She 
brought home 12 gallons of dried chickpeas from India, Morocco, Spain, 
Turkey, Greece, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran, as well as hybrid 
varieties that do well in drought conditions.

Every weekend she comes home, I make falafel (because it's a good summer 
supper) with one of the chickpea varieties. I figure that, if I cook 
chickpeas one day a week, the supply will last close to 15 years.

I have quite a few chickpea recipes and can alter other recipes to 
include chickpeas, but I'd welcome a few more to round out my repertoire.

-- 
Heather Madrone  (heat...@madrone.com)
http://www.knitfitter.com/category/personal/

Nothing worth doing is ever easy.

Re: [silk] How much time do you spend cooking?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

This is whatever Ra Jesh was cooking his fish in.

Whether that is black bean sauce, black pepper sauce etc is an exercise left to 
his taste buds.

On 04/09/18, 11:03 AM, "silklist on behalf of Deepa Mohan" 
 wrote:

What is this "thickened black sauce" you are talking about? Sounds like my
cooking when I've forgotten things...

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:59 AM Suresh Ramasubramanian 
wrote:

> And depends on what you cook.  Meat generally takes a lot more preparation
> time as well as cooking time than vegetables do.  Simple dishes that can 
be
> cooked in a single pot take far less time than more complex ones involving
> thickened black sauces. [etc]
>
> So anywhere between 45 minutes to 3+ hours depending on what's cooking.
>
> And those 45 minutes are if you multitask.  Eg: Put the pressure cooker on
> to boil rice, and start chopping vegetables, heating the tamarind extract 
+
> salt + sambar powder just in time for the cooker to finish + the steam
> inside to dissipate enough for you to open it .. when you add the steamed
> vegetables and then the dal that are in the cooker along with the rice.
>
> Then again there are those dishes where you can just set them to cook and
> go off, do your own thing for half an hour plus while they gently simmer 
on
> the stove.
>
> On 04/09/18, 10:55 AM, "silklist on behalf of Alok Prasanna Kumar"
>  kautilya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I work outside home and I usually cook every alternate day or so given
> that
> I live alone and cook only for myself.
>
> So I guess I cook about 3-4 hours a week tops (not including 
re-heating
> leftovers).
>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:50 AM Ra Jesh  wrote:
>
> > I would expand the question to "How much time do you spend managing
> the
> > food ecosystem in your household?" I guess this is what earlier
> generations
> > in India included in "running the household".
> >
> > E.g. Last week I cooked a fried fish in a thickened black sauce and
> made a
> > prawn curry (3-4 hours on that day) but the process also involved
> > purchasing the fish (I don't do home delivery of groceries) and
> prawns, and
> > gutting 2 kg of prawns. Now the fish dish needed boneless chunks,
> but I
> > bought the whole fish (because smaller fishmongers can't discard the
> rest
> > of the carcass profitably and I prefer buying from smaller local
> sellers).
> > The rest of the fish carcass can best be used to make a fish broth,
> which
> > took another 90 min, but 2 days later. This broth is now in the
> freezer but
> > will become a soup sometime next week or so.
> >
> > So, from picking and buying an adequate variety but appropriate
> quantity of
> > vegetables, fruits, grains, fats, and meats, to orchestrating what
> gets
> > cooked when to maximize freshness of each item, to keeping track of
> what's
> > been eaten and how much is leftover in the fridge, to cooking some
> of the
> > families meals myself, to cleaning up and disposing of kitchen waste
> > appropriately, I'd say it takes about 12-15 hours a week.
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2018 10:29, "Karen Fernandes"  wrote:
> >
> > I work from home. I live with my mother who does most of the
> cooking. I
> > make my own breakfast though, for which I spend 30-40 minutes per 
day
> > cooking.
> >
> >
> >
> > Karen.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 8:35 AM Udhay Shankar N 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Something I am curious about.
> > >
> > > How much time here do people spend actually cooking the food they
> eat? To
> > > make the data more useful, calculate the time you spent over the
> past
> > week
> > > in total.
> > >
> > > Also, please mention whether you work outside home or primarily
> within
> > home
> > > (as a homemaker or a long distance worker)
> > >
> > > Udhay
> > > --
> > >
> > > --
> > > ((Udhay Shankar N))  ((via phone))
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Alok Prasanna Kumar
> Advocate
> Ph: +919560065577
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [silk] How much time do you spend cooking?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

And depends on what you cook.  Meat generally takes a lot more preparation time 
as well as cooking time than vegetables do.  Simple dishes that can be cooked 
in a single pot take far less time than more complex ones involving thickened 
black sauces. [etc]

So anywhere between 45 minutes to 3+ hours depending on what's cooking.

And those 45 minutes are if you multitask.  Eg: Put the pressure cooker on to 
boil rice, and start chopping vegetables, heating the tamarind extract + salt + 
sambar powder just in time for the cooker to finish + the steam inside to 
dissipate enough for you to open it .. when you add the steamed  vegetables and 
then the dal that are in the cooker along with the rice.

Then again there are those dishes where you can just set them to cook and go 
off, do your own thing for half an hour plus while they gently simmer on the 
stove.

On 04/09/18, 10:55 AM, "silklist on behalf of Alok Prasanna Kumar" 
 wrote:

I work outside home and I usually cook every alternate day or so given that
I live alone and cook only for myself.

So I guess I cook about 3-4 hours a week tops (not including re-heating
leftovers).

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:50 AM Ra Jesh  wrote:

> I would expand the question to "How much time do you spend managing the
> food ecosystem in your household?" I guess this is what earlier 
generations
> in India included in "running the household".
>
> E.g. Last week I cooked a fried fish in a thickened black sauce and made a
> prawn curry (3-4 hours on that day) but the process also involved
> purchasing the fish (I don't do home delivery of groceries) and prawns, 
and
> gutting 2 kg of prawns. Now the fish dish needed boneless chunks, but I
> bought the whole fish (because smaller fishmongers can't discard the rest
> of the carcass profitably and I prefer buying from smaller local sellers).
> The rest of the fish carcass can best be used to make a fish broth, which
> took another 90 min, but 2 days later. This broth is now in the freezer 
but
> will become a soup sometime next week or so.
>
> So, from picking and buying an adequate variety but appropriate quantity 
of
> vegetables, fruits, grains, fats, and meats, to orchestrating what gets
> cooked when to maximize freshness of each item, to keeping track of what's
> been eaten and how much is leftover in the fridge, to cooking some of the
> families meals myself, to cleaning up and disposing of kitchen waste
> appropriately, I'd say it takes about 12-15 hours a week.
>
> On Sep 4, 2018 10:29, "Karen Fernandes"  wrote:
>
> I work from home. I live with my mother who does most of the cooking. I
> make my own breakfast though, for which I spend 30-40 minutes per day
> cooking.
>
>
>
> Karen.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 8:35 AM Udhay Shankar N  wrote:
>
> > Something I am curious about.
> >
> > How much time here do people spend actually cooking the food they eat? 
To
> > make the data more useful, calculate the time you spent over the past
> week
> > in total.
> >
> > Also, please mention whether you work outside home or primarily within
> home
> > (as a homemaker or a long distance worker)
> >
> > Udhay
> > --
> >
> > --
> > ((Udhay Shankar N))  ((via phone))
> >
>


-- 
Alok Prasanna Kumar
Advocate
Ph: +919560065577

Re: [silk] War on Science?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Says "content not available now".  Either that post is private or it has been 
removed.

With the BJP in power there's enough of our local version of creationists and 
other assorted idiots who have suddenly found themselves in charge of education 
boards, ministries and such.  So, entirely unsurprised.

On 21/02/18, 9:17 AM, "silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net on 
behalf of silkl...@bobf.frankston.com" 
 wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/lynn.wheeler/posts/10214578899241825

(which points to http://www.atimes.com/indias-war-science/)

Please join the discussion and add comments if you know more about this?

Re: [silk] ‘Kind’ technology?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Should be fixed now 









On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 10:45 AM +0530, "Udhay Shankar N"  
wrote:










On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 10:26 PM, Tomasz Rola  wrote:

> Looks like the IP block of lists.hserus.net is on Microsoft's
> > blocklist. Not Tomasz's.
>
> That was my thought too, but I asked Udhay offlist for more
> details. No problem either way.
>

​Correct. I jumped the gun.​


​Udhay​
-- 

((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

Re: [silk] ‘Kind’ technology?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

That'd be IBM / Softlayer.  My usual long time contact there for security stuff 
quit along with their former CEO, and both of them went off and started a new 
company (Stackpath) with the 4 billion IBM paid him for acquisition, once he 
got passed over for the top cloud role at IBM in favour of a lifer IBM exec.

Stackpath is currently eating the lunch of quite a few outfits in the network 
security space, and most everyone is eating IBM's lunch in the cloud space in 
any case.  And a lot of the top talent at Softlayer seems to have moved along 
with those two to Stackpath.

So got to see who is left out there with a reasonable amount of abuse / policy 
enforcement clue.

If this isn't resolved I'll move my hosting elsewhere.

--srs

On 09/02/18, 12:34 PM, "silklist on behalf of Bharath Chari" 
 wrote:

On 02/09/2018 04:11 AM, Udhay Shankar N wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 7:22 AM, Tomasz Rola  wrote:
>
> Lo and behold, my connection has been cut off for few hours...
> ​It looks like your ISP is on Microsoft's blocklist. You should check with
> them. See below, ​your message is bouncing to all silklist addresses 
within
> the Microsoft universe:
>
>  550 5.7.1 Unfortunately, messages from [50.23.85.242] weren't sent.
> Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their network
> is on our block list (AS3140). You can also refer your provider to
> http://mail.live.com/mail/troubleshooting.aspx#errors. [
> DM3NAM03FT057.eop-NAM03.prod.protection.outlook.com]
>
>
Looks like the IP block of lists.hserus.net is on Microsoft's blocklist. 
Not Tomasz's.

[silk] Fwd: [IP] John Perry Barlow, Internet Pioneer, 1947-2018 | Electronic Frontier Foundation

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

-- Forwarded message --

From: "Dave Farber" 

Date: Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 5:08 AM +0530

Subject: [IP] John Perry Barlow, Internet Pioneer, 1947-2018 | Electronic 
Frontier Foundation

To: "ip" 










John Perry Barlow, Internet Pioneer, 1947-2018 | Electronic Frontier 
FoundationThere is so much to say about John. The many years at the EFF board 
with him. The great memories. So much to remember. 
Dave
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/02/john-perry-barlow-internet-pioneer-1947-2018

John Perry Barlow, Internet Pioneer, 1947-2018Cindy CohnFebruary 7, 2018

With a broken heart I have to announce that EFF's founder, visionary, and our 
ongoing inspiration, John Perry Barlow, passed away quietly in his sleep this 
morning. We will miss Barlow and his wisdom for decades to come, and he will 
always be an integral part of EFF.

It is no exaggeration to say that major parts of the Internet we all know and 
love today exist and thrive because of Barlow’s vision and leadership. He 
always saw the Internet as a fundamental place of freedom, where voices long 
silenced can find an audience and people can connect with others regardless of 
physical distance.

Barlow was sometimes held up as a straw man for a kind of naive 
techno-utopianism that believed that the Internet could solve all of humanity's 
problems without causing any more. As someone who spent the past 27 years 
working with him at EFF, I can say that nothing could be further from the 
truth. Barlow knew that new technology could create and empower evil as much as 
it could create and empower good. He made a conscious decision to focus on the 
latter: "I knew it’s also true that a good way to invent the future is to 
predict it. So I predicted Utopia, hoping to give Liberty a running start 
before the laws of Moore and Metcalfe delivered up what Ed Snowden now 
correctly calls 'turn-key totalitarianism.'”

Barlow’s lasting legacy is that he devoted his life to making the Internet into 
“a world that all may enter without privilege or prejudice accorded by race, 
economic power, military force, or station of birth . . . a world where anyone, 
anywhere may express his or her beliefs, no matter how singular, without fear 
of being coerced into silence or conformity.”

In the days and weeks to come, we will be talking and writing more about what a 
extraordinary role Barlow played for the Internet and the world. And as always, 
we will continue the work to fulfill his dream.


  

  
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Re: [silk] Which came first? Ctrl+Alt+Del OR Command+Option+Esc

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

ctrl alt del dates back to 81 as a soft reboot in MS DOS on IBM PCs.  Making it 
a login shortcut is from win NT much later in 1993

The command key was introduced in 1980 on the Apple III but option dates to 
1986 and the Apple IIgs

So ctrl alt del is the clear winner here 

--srs

> On 29-Nov-2017, at 10:24 AM, Rajesh Mehar  wrote:
> 
> I'm wondering if the Apple Command+Option+Escape key combination came to be
> later than the equivalent Windows Ctrl+Alt+Del key combination or if they
> were introduced around the same time.
> 
> Does anyone here know?

Re: [silk] The end of the teens

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

+1

On 23/11/17, 3:29 PM, "silklist on behalf of Biju Chacko" 
 wrote:

On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Udhay Shankar N  wrote:
> Sounds good. I will be traveling from the 21st onwards, so perhaps the
> previous weekend? Anytime between 15-17 Dec 2017. Show of hands?

*raises hand*

Re: [silk] The end of the teens

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Travel to bangalore sounds good 

--srs

> On 23-Nov-2017, at 7:40 AM, Udhay Shankar N  wrote:
> 
> ​Sounds good. I will be traveling from the 21st onwards, so perhaps the
> previous weekend? ​Anytime between 15-17 Dec 2017. Show of hands?
> 
> ​I also strongly encourage people n other cities to get together and raise
> a toast. Perhaps we can livestream? :)​

Re: [silk] The end of the teens

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Note - if any of you fine folks could do with a road trip I can help organize 
one.  Somewhere where we can take a farmhouse or similar for our exclusive use. 
 Lay in sufficient supplies of everything edible and potable.

On 17/11/17, 12:22 PM, "silklist on behalf of Udhay Shankar N" 
 wrote:

Folks:

Silklist will turn 20 years old on Dec 19, 2017. Any ideas for things to do
to celebrate? :)

​Udhay​

-- 

((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

Re: [silk] The end of the teens

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Get together. Eat. Drink. What else? (

On 17/11/17, 12:22 PM, "silklist on behalf of Udhay Shankar N" 
 wrote:

Folks:

Silklist will turn 20 years old on Dec 19, 2017. Any ideas for things to do
to celebrate? :)

​Udhay​

-- 

((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

Re: [silk] On Lit fests

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Jaggi and Manu Joseph, fml.  The rest of the usual suspects and some 
surprisingly nice people.

On 18/10/17, 5:15 PM, "silklist on behalf of Jayadevan P K" 
 wrote:

Bangalore Lit fest speaker list

Re: [silk] What's your primary computing device?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

A little foresight goes a very long way indeed. I’m glad you came out of this 
unscathed.

--srs

> On 21-Sep-2017, at 2:31 AM, Bruce A. Metcalf  wrote:
> 
> When I first moved to Florida, friends suggested I get a place at the beach, 
> as it's cooler (plus it would be closer to the beach). But I kept seeing 
> these signs that said "Hurricane Evacuation Route" pointing to Orlando. I 
> took the hint, and haven't been sorry.

Re: [silk] May be visiting Bangalore/Bengaluru

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Cold and rainy. With the added disadvantage of having to more or less swim 
across some roads in the city if there’s too heavy a rain.  Fun :)

If you have just a day or two more you might do Mysore - there’s a lovely 
garden, a bird sanctuary, an old fort (though in ruins after tipu sultan came 
out on the wrong side of his little argument with the Brits) and some other 
odds and ends.

--srs

> On 20-Sep-2017, at 9:54 AM, silkl...@bobf.frankston.com wrote:
> 
> Hmm .,.. the weather doesn't seem very different from Boston. (unlike Mumbai).

Re: [silk] May be visiting Bangalore/Bengaluru

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

On 20/09/17, 8:35 AM,  silkl...@bobf.frankston.com wrote:

>At the moment I don't have any particular plans so am pretty open to 
> suggestions.

I’m not – but what dates, around the event, which is October 5-7?  

And what would you prefer to do?  Old forts and other such historic places?  
The beach (not a good idea as it is the monsoon)?

Anywhere at all in India is an under two hour (and cheap!) flight from 
Bangalore so you have the whole country open to you – but depends on what your 
tastes are.

Re: [silk] May be visiting Bangalore/Bengaluru

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Half of silklist is in Bangalore so welcome 

What’s your schedule / dates there other than this conference?

--srs

> On 20-Sep-2017, at 2:03 AM, silkl...@bobf.frankston.com wrote:
> 
> (which is preferred).
> 
> I've been asked to give a keynote at http://www.icce-asia2017.org/ and trying 
> to see if I can work out my schedule. Any list members attending? Other 
> suggestions for while I’m there?
> 
> [comments on the India e-Visa website omitted ... I will get through the form 
> eventually!]

Re: [silk] Travel advice for a visitor to India

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

One thing is - seeing the forts and such in each of those Rajasthani cities 
won’t take more than a day or so each, but there’s travel fatigue to deal with. 
 And they aren’t far from each other. Spend the first ten days doing that plus 
Delhi.  

Or on the principle of one fort is just like the other, cut out most of the 
Rajasthani cities and stick to Udaipur - which has the nicest hotels - after 
Delhi and Agra.

Varanasi is a long detour to an extremely filthy (though admittedly culture 
rich) city.  Not entirely sure it’s going to suit your American older couple 
friends.  Skip it by all means.

Factor in rest days. So Delhi Agra Udaipur is the first week gone.  Or just 
Agra and Udaipur, forget Delhi except as a rest day.

And do they really want to see Mumbai (or even Goa) during the monsoon?

--srs

> On 19-Sep-2017, at 1:57 AM, Mahesh Murthy  wrote:
> 
> 8 cities in 2 weeks? Why???
> 
> Do two. Or maybe 4 at max.
> 
>> On 19-Sep-2017 1:51 AM,  wrote:
>> 
>> A business acquaintance and his wife are visiting India end Sep/ early
>> October. first visit ever
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> They're an older couple and reasonably affluent so no back-packing for them
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Have used a travel agent to chalk out a trip.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> He's going to be in Delhi, then Agra, then Varanasi, Ranthambore,  Jaipur,
>> Jodhpur, Udaipur, Mumbai.  Lots of places over a two week time frame
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> He has free afternoons/ evenings occasionally
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Any must see, must Do and Don't  bothers?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Prashant
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [silk] Novels about Jews in India?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

On 13/09/17, 10:50 AM, "silklist on behalf of Srini RamaKrishnan" 
 wrote:

➢ His Rabbi clearly isn't smoking anything. The heaven hereafter can wait, he 
says, give me the dirt I can touch.

Beautiful, thanks!

Re: [silk] Novels about Jews in India?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Hm.  What’s that stuff they smoke in those parts?  Qat? Kif?  Whatever it is 
the rabbi was on, I’d like some please.  It’d be fun to hold conversations with 
a cat or dog.

On 13/09/17, 10:23 AM, "silklist on behalf of Aadisht Khanna" 
 wrote:

The Rabbi's Cat by Joann Sfar is a graphic novel about a Tunisian (I think,
but definitely North African) rabbi whose cat gains the power of speech and
then engages the rabbi in theological debate.

Re: [silk] Kids and porn

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Give them the usual frank talk beyond the birds and the bees. As a start. 

After that?  Well, an appreciation of what is consensual and what is non 
consensual might help him or her 

1. Take the staged porn with a pinch of salt

2. Steer clear of the masses of non consensual recordings (spy cams and such) 
uploaded online plus avoid ending up being featured in such a video themselves 

I believe Vidya Reddy of Tulir will have some excellent ideas on this.

--srs

> On 03-Sep-2017, at 9:50 AM, Udhay Shankar N  wrote:
> 
> I saw this article [1] that makes the (quite obvious, if you think about
> it) case
> ​ that kids will look at porn whether you want them to or not - and that
> people need to figure out how they will deal with that.
> 
> Since many people on silk are in the right demographic to have seen this
> either with their own kids or with friends/family, please share
> thoughts/advise/experiences.

Re: [silk] An introduction

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Welcome to the mostly old fogies club

It is rather quiet here these days, I’m sure you’ll change that 

--srs

> On 04-Aug-2017, at 10:11 AM, Harnidh Kaur  wrote:
> 
> I've been called 'obnoxiously enthusiastic', 'disgustingly excited', and
> 'alarmingly energetic.'

Re: [silk] When to quit

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Knowing precisely when to cut your losses and move on, versus staying on and 
making it work is kind of a difficult and personal decision.  But it is one you 
have to make at some point, or multiple points in your life.

On 27/07/17, 10:07 AM, "silklist on behalf of Biju Chacko" 
 wrote:

This is good thing when you're making career choices, less so when you are
trying to eat more healthily or exercise more.

At some level, wisdom is knowing when to trust your gut.

Re: [silk] Silkmeet on June 28 - bangalore

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Likewise, really enjoyed my time there.  And hope Byomkesh the dog didn’t get 
too much of a stomach upset from scarfing down all the chips and dip.

On 29/06/17, 10:09 AM, "silklist on behalf of Vinay Rao" 
 wrote:

It truly was wonderful. Thanks Vineet, Surabhi, and Vyomkesh, for playing 
hosts; and Udhay for putting it together. 

Re: [silk] Silkmeet on June 28 - bangalore

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Gentle reminder byob 
Now to find a booze store within reach of ub city, am in a cab coming from 
whitefield and should reach in another half an hour 

--srs

> On 28-Jun-2017, at 6:25 PM, Venkat  wrote:
> 
> Oh, I want to drink! :-)

Re: [silk] Silkmeet on June 29 - bangalore

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Hopefully next week let me try 

--srs

> On 19-Jun-2017, at 4:19 PM, Udhay Shankar N  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm mostly arriving on the 29th morning
>> 
>> If I am able to schedule a work trip back to back I can also be in town a
>> day or two earlier but this is doubtful.
>> 
> 
> ​By when will you know?​

Re: [silk] Silkmeet on June 29 - bangalore

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

I'm mostly arriving on the 29th morning 

If I am able to schedule a work trip back to back I can also be in town a day 
or two earlier but this is doubtful.

--srs

> On 19-Jun-2017, at 4:04 PM, Udhay Shankar N  wrote:
> 
> ​I'd say that depends on a show of hands, primarily Suresh and Samanth (as
> the out of town folks)​
> 
> Speak up, folks!

Re: [silk] Silkmeet on June 29 - bangalore

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Sold!

--srs

> On 19-Jun-2017, at 12:22 PM, Amitha Singh  wrote:
> 
> And one place I'd recommend with all the criteria above would be
> Bootleggers in Indiranagar

Re: [silk] Silkmeet on June 29 - bangalore

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

> On 19-Jun-2017, at 12:13 PM, Udhay Shankar N  wrote:
> 
> So, where are we meeting

Somewhere with good food and reasonably priced drinks 

Millers Road? Downtown? Democratic People's Republic of Kormangal?

Re: [silk] Silkmeet on June 29 - bangalore

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

The 29th as the subject says - mostly the evening of the 29th

--srs

> On 19-Jun-2017, at 1:46 AM, Jayadevan P K  wrote:
> 
> When is the meet? Would love to be part of it.
> 
> 

[silk] Silkmeet on June 29 - bangalore

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Hi, I'll be in town and Udhay suggested that we do a silk meet.  Please rsvp so 
a suitable bar can be located

--srs

Re: [silk] Any leads?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Sounds just like the one we have near kalakad in tirunelveli district 

--srs

> On 01-Jun-2017, at 2:47 PM, Sumant Srivathsan  wrote:
> 
> Our extended family is quite
> large, and recently an uncle in Thoothukudi undertook a fundraising drive
> to rebuild parts of the temple structure around the deity, which is a
> Saastha, and has existed as a stone without shelter for decades.

Re: [silk] Any leads?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

There's also Uday's fine old story of stopping at a hotel to get a drink on on 
of those trips ..

--srs

> On 01-Jun-2017, at 1:00 PM, Samanth Subramanian  wrote:
> 
> Interesting. How often does she go, Udhay? Does she go by herself, or is 
> there an assortment of relatives that travels as well?

Re: [silk] Any leads?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

My wife likewise umm.. convinces me to take the family to Shirdi once a year or 
so.  And there’s the usual family deity thing as well, to somewhere like 80 km 
from Udhay’s Karungulam.  [Karunkulam on google maps, thanks to a similarly 
named town somewhere near Thanjavur being called Karungulam]

On 01/06/17, 11:56 AM, "silklist on behalf of Udhay Shankar N" 
 wrote:

On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Samanth Subramanian 
wrote:

>
> A friend in the US is working on a photo feature, and she's looking for
> families in India (nuclear or joint) that go repeatedly to a particular
> place as an act of pilgrimage -- that consider this a kind of family
> vacation, almost.
>
> Would anyone know of any such families? Any contacts or leads would be
> much appreciated.


​My mom used to chivvy us to go to a temple in Karungulam (near
Tirunelveli) which is supposedly the home of a family deity. My wife has
now taken this upon herself. I rarely go.

Udhay​

-- 

((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

Re: [silk] Books about the Bhakti movement?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Speaking of that – the Chennai Ramakrishna Math has a large number of Swami 
Ramakrishna and Vivekananda’s works but transcribed into word or something of 
the sort, and not in a Unicode font either.  So trying to turn them into HTML 
or make them into something cross platform is resulting in a ton of errors and 
they’re even thinking of having volunteers transcribe the lot again.

Someone who knows what he or she is doing in this area and wants to help out 
please let me know, I’ll put you in touch with the appropriate person at the 
Math.


On 31/05/17, 2:32 PM, "silklist on behalf of Srini RamaKrishnan" 
 wrote:

https://istore.chennaimath.org/product/spiritual-heritage-of-india/

The spiritual heritage of India by Swami Prabhavananda; I highly recommend
this, as well as dipping as needed into the voluminous  works of Swami
Vivekananda.

Re: [silk] Introducing myself

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Welcome! 

Now you mention it, that's the funny, or rather, pitiful thing. A frank 
discussion of sex often veers into the prurient, from horny and oversexed but 
inexperienced students, to snickering locker room talk from middle aged people 
who tend not to get much at all.

Places where "the middle ground" exists and people are actually comfortable 
discussing sex are few and far between.

By the way if you haven't already, you might take a look at Kate Lister's 
twitter feed @whoresofyore - she's a sexual / sex work historian who manages to 
keep the discussion fun, frank and interesting.

--srs

> On 03-Apr-2017, at 8:40 PM, Cindy Gallop  wrote:
> 
> I had the enormous pleasure of meeting Udhay in Bangalore last week - MLNP
> gets a lot of traffic and emails from India, especially Indian millennials,
> and I am actively seeking investors to launch MakeLoveNotPorn India in
> order to help promote and educate on good sexual values and good sexual
> behavior - as FactorDaily outlines here:

Re: [silk] Silklisters in Boston/Cambridge?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

On 29/03/17, 10:10 AM, "silklist on behalf of Chew Lin Kay" 
 wrote:

> Right, so wear many layers, don't drive and don't cycle
> when it's cold outside. I'm Singaporean, the complaining
> should come easy. Got it!

You’re Singaporean lah – so that means you know how to make laksa, noodle soup 
and such.

I can’t think of anything better to keep cold well away, not even hot toddies 
and those are awesome for the purpose.   
 

Re: [silk] In praise of slowness

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

On 24/01/17, 4:21 PM, Shyam Sunder wrote:

> I fear that the above describes someone who will wake up six months
> later with nothing to do during the day, and drives everyone around
> him / her up the wall! For someone aged 50, they need a plan that
> will last decades, not months

For that sort of guy a six month sabbatical from work followed by a job change 
might be just the ticket.  Or even a month’s vacation would be more than enough 
in most cases.

Re: [silk] In praise of slowness

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

I’ve managed to work from home across three employers since 2002.

So – well, extremely flexible working hours that let me take breaks off to pick 
my kids up from school and such, in return for crazy work hours early in the 
morning and late at night (well, if you work with colleagues stateside what 
better times do you have to ensure that you can talk to them?)

This at least has meant that I can keep up with family time, buying and 
furnishing a house, quizzing, facebook and such to fill in the intervals 
between frenetic work.

The one thing I possibly regret – or maybe not - is getting email and work apps 
on a phone early on – it simply means that I’m never away from work even when 
I’m on holiday, or sick in a hospital bed (lay on one for a week, and work, fb, 
work, fb type routines are what kept me sane during intervals of high fever, 
being shot full of IV antibiotics and cavalierly poked and prodded about by 
doctors)

On 24/01/17, 1:26 PM, "silklist on behalf of rajeev chakravarthi" 
 wrote:

This post touched a nerve. Here's my experience -

I used to be an investment banker and corporate strategy (or stragedy, if
you like) person. Pursuant to a showdown with the boss, I took a break in
late 2011. Here's how I spent my time (or, as Terry Pratchett once wrote,
"What I did in my holidays")

Re: [silk] On popular protests, jallikattu and twitter revolutions

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

The government had the right idea at the end of the day, bringing a high court 
judge over to explain the ordinance which had already been brought and how it 
actually was as close to the "permanent solution" the crowd was asking for as 
was feasible.  They should have brought him in much earlier in the day.

--srs

> On 24-Jan-2017, at 8:04 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan  wrote:
> 
> First some background to what happened: Jallikattu is a popular rural sport
> in Tamil Nadu that involves young men chasing fearsome bulls with sharpened
> horns through narrow allies and mounting them bare handed. It's an
> exciting, yet brutal (on the player more than the animal usually) sport for
> the rural youth. Since the last 10 days or so there has been a growing
> state wide youth protest fuelled almost entirely by social media, over the
> recent Supreme court's decision to ban Jallikattu on grounds of animal
> cruelty. It was popularly seen as an attack on Tamil culture - it is no
> secret xenophobia, racism and tribal identity gather crowds like nothing
> else.
> 
> Yesterday the protests turned violent and there were several incidents of
> violence reported that ended in police resorting to firing their guns. It's
> unclear who started the violence but there are certainly several social
> media videos of professional political goons and most surprisingly to many,
> the police in uniform indulging in vandalism and wanton violence.
> 
> Search #ShameonTNPolice and / or #JallikattuForever on twitter for the
> videos and reports.
> 
> There has been a lot of soul searching and confusion over how a protest
> that won much praise for its democratic and peaceful nature could turn
> violent so quickly. There's also been some chest thumping on the power of
> social media - which reminded me of the last time I saw it, during Arab
> Spring when I was still with Google, when everyone was toasting to a new
> possibility. We all know how Arab spring turned out.
> 
> I have never believed in popular revolutions alone bringing change - if the
> sense of injustice that powers revolutions are like seeds, they can't do
> much to grow justice without the sunshine, fertile soil and water, i.e.
> journalism + courts, the political climate and economic climate
> respectively.
> 
> None of what I am about to say excuses the actions of the police yesterday,
> or the inept manner in which the TN government and bureaucracy handled the
> protests.
> 
> We can't change human nature, or the greed of politicians and opportunists,
> or the natural human tendency of many to turn angry and violent when
> there's injustice. A seasoned government would have taken this into account
> and stepped in on day one and dispersed the agitators, amid accusations of
> being undemocratic, and at the same time followed up with Delhi and
> delivered results that pleased the crowd. Instead, the incumbent government
> allowed a fringe problem (jallikattu is a sport most haven't witnessed,
> including a huge majority of those protesting) to grow into a mass
> movement. Like a dumpster fire people began throwing everything that burned
> - every problem, grouse and injustice was attached to it. In India there is
> no shortage of such complaints.
> 
> As a result the crowd had become emotionally invested over disparate
> reasons not even remotely connected to the conduct of jalllikattu like
> ending corruption, poverty, and crime, and a visceral hatred of
> politicians, MNCs and distrust of every power centre and ruling clas,
> including hidden hands.
> 
> Consequently most of the crowd wouldn't disperse even when a political and
> legal solution to lift the ban on jallikattu had been reached. The end of
> the ban wasn't good enough for the vast majority who still saw injustice
> everywhere.
> 
> Regardless of the undeniable possibility of incitement of violence by
> opposition goons, and police, sadly, the rest that followed is pretty
> predictable.
> 
> Present day Indian police are trained in the same Orwellian manner that the
> British Raj used to train its police. During riots police are trained to
> cause property damage even before controlling the crowds, in order to show
> proof that they were justified in resorting to violence. The courts won't
> grant firing permission, or allow lathi charges unless the police can prove
> the situation had got out of hand and turned into a life threatening
> situation. Further, anyone they jail can be punished or intimidated
> severely only if the property damage is in the lakhs and crores.
> 
> It is no secret that we have a poor democracy in India that borders on
> fascism, and this is for the same reason that we still sell cars in this
> country without airbags - it'd be unaffordably expensive otherwise.
> 
> Safety and security isn't cheap. Justice, courts and police aren't free.
> 
> In a poor country there are always more problems than solutions. When
> unfairness is plentiful and fairness rare, maintaining 

Re: [silk] Examplars of genre in Indian movies

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Coming of age for a girl - though amateurishly handled - Gippy

--srs

> On 22-Jan-2017, at 9:27 AM, karthik natarajan  wrote:
> 
> Coming of age: jo jeta wahi sikandar, udaan, rockford
> Triller+drama: 3 deewarein.
> 
> 
> -- 
> karthik natarajan
> [+91 99232 27049]
> [majorchaos.in]
> 
> From: Venkatesh H R  
> Reply: silklist@lists.hserus.net 
> 
> Date: 22 January 2017 at 9:23:06 AM
> To: Silk List  
> Subject:  Re: [silk] Examplars of genre in Indian movies
> 
> Are there any teenage coming-of-age movies? I can't remember. But I suppose
> Lakshya would be a coming-of-age movie.
> Mythology comedy (is this really a genre?) - Maya Bazar
>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 8:38 AM Udhay Shankar N  wrote:
>> 
>> Gangster: Nayakan
>> 

Re: [silk] Request - Recommended reading list / songs for a 5-month old baby girl

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Murugan in gopalapuram
Another one in Adyar (Gokul arcade)
Let me know where you are there should be something nearby 

--srs

> On 30-Dec-2016, at 11:16 AM, Preetha Chari-Srinivas <bling...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Suresh,
> 
> I am currently based in Madras. Looking forward to hearing back from you.
> 
> Cheers,
> Preetha.
> 
> On Dec 29, 2016 11:34 PM, "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <sur...@hserus.net>
> wrote:
> 
> Which city are you in?
> 
> Plenty I know of in Chennai.  Bangalore has its fair share + second hand
> book stores like Blossoms.
> 
> And there’s always the kindle / ipad and such.
> 
> On 29/12/16, 9:59 AM, "silklist on behalf of Preetha Chari-Srinivas"
> <silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net on behalf of
> bling...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>Howdy folks,
>I would like to seek your suggestions on the recommended reading
>list/songs/nursery rhymes etc. for a 5-month old baby girl. Is there a
>lending library where we can get children's books from - just wondering
> for
>I haven't seen one in India, so far. Could be mistaken, though.
> 
>Cheers,
>Preetha.

Re: [silk] Request - Recommended reading list / songs for a 5-month old baby girl

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Eloor behind Safina plaza on Infantry Road has been around for 30+ years unless 
they closed down, I haven't borrowed anything from them recently so I hope 
they're still there 

Google + a website says yes they are 

--srs

> On 30-Dec-2016, at 9:59 AM, Charles Haynes <charles.hay...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Suresh,
> 
> For future reference, could you please share the lending libraries of
> Bangalore? That was one of the things we (especially Debbie) missed the
> most about our time there - we were used to easily findable and accessible
> public libraries, and couldn't find such in Bangalore.
> 
> -- Charles
> 
> On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 at 05:04 Suresh Ramasubramanian <sur...@hserus.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> Which city are you in?
>> 
>> Plenty I know of in Chennai.  Bangalore has its fair share + second hand
>> book stores like Blossoms.
>> 
>> And there’s always the kindle / ipad and such.
>> 
>> On 29/12/16, 9:59 AM, "silklist on behalf of Preetha Chari-Srinivas"
>> <silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net on behalf of
>> bling...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>Howdy folks,
>>I would like to seek your suggestions on the recommended reading
>>list/songs/nursery rhymes etc. for a 5-month old baby girl. Is there a
>>lending library where we can get children's books from - just
>> wondering for
>>I haven't seen one in India, so far. Could be mistaken, though.
>> 
>>Cheers,
>>Preetha.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [silk] Old Maps of Chennai

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

The madras archives http://www.tnarchives.tn.gov.in/aboutus.html

Though if you know S Muthaiah of Madras Musings I am sure he can already give 
you chapter and verse on what you want.


On 28/12/16, 9:36 PM, "silklist on behalf of Vijay Anand" 
 wrote:

Does anyone know where one can find old maps of Chennai? I am looking
for a map of Triplicane, especially the area surrounding the Marina
beach before 1991. If anyone could point me towards the right
direction, it would greatly help.

Thanks in advance.

Vijay

Re: [silk] Mysore Masala Dosa in Bangalore

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Easier – just where in Bangalore are you located?

Going to CTR / Veena Stores in Malleswaram might be a tall order if you’re out 
in Whitefield or the Outer Ring Road.

That said, there are dozens of little “99 varieties of dosa” places spread all 
over the city and you’ll get a tolerable masala dosa, certainly better than 
anything you’ll get in Bombay, at most any of them.   With so much butter 
slathered on, you had better kiss your arteries goodbye, but that’s another 
story.

On 08/12/16, 4:40 PM, "silklist on behalf of Venkat Mangudi - Silk" 
 wrote:

If you mean masala dosa with chutney smeared inside, that is just a regular 
masala dosa here. It’s called Mysore Masala Dosa in Mumbai and places north. 
Good dosas at

1. Central Tiffin Room, Malleswaram
2. Dosa camp, Jayanagar
3. Food street, V V Puram (no sitting)
and many many more places.

Cheers,
Venkat
 

Re: [silk] What are the books you've gifted?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

I gifted someone a set of Heinlein novels, used.  Stupid of me, but I was young 
and impressionable back then and thought they were great.  [Well, they are, if 
you carefully blank your mind out to the weird and wonderful politics and enjoy 
them for what they are]

Other than that, I usually gift people prints of paintings and such, not books.

--srs

On 06/12/16, 2:57 PM, "silklist on behalf of Udhay Shankar N" 
 wrote:

Another book recommendation thread. This time, I am interested in the books
that made enough of an impression that you gifted them to one or more
people.

Go!

Udhay

Re: [silk] Things that are worth the money

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

--srs

> On 29-Nov-2016, at 9:13 AM, Deepa Mohan  wrote:
> 
> fragrance seems, to me, the most unquantifiable.
> Can someone tell me how fragrances are priced, and often priced so
> very high? I could understand when the components, like frankincense
> or vettiver, are difficult to procure. But in general, the pricing of
> fragrances remains an opaque area.

Re: [silk] Bump in the road, or end of the road?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

For long yes – but with much thinner margins, and requiring much higher levels 
of skill, and far, far lower levels of staffing.

They [as in a generic large IT company] will need to pare themselves to the 
bone (the middle management layer is one that is bloated beyond all reason, and 
ridden with politics) before they can get better at what needs to be done.

The other part is being too process driven for their own good.

IBM theoretically celebrates so called “wild ducks” – a concept that goes back 
to the TJ Watson days.  People who are independent, innovative, skunk works 
type engineers.

Those are what a large company needs, in key positions and seeded up and down 
their hierarchy.  Unfortunately by the time they grow to the size they are, all 
the “process” (and even more of the politics and inefficiencies and ..) 
eventually become a shotgun that decimates wild ducks wholesale, or at least 
sends them winging off to greener pastures regardless of the fact that they 
might have spent the last 20+ years in the organization. 

--srs

On 22/10/16, 7:39 PM, "silklist on behalf of Sriram Karra" 
 wrote:

It is not a law of nature that Infosys and its ilk will keep making PAT in
excess of 20%+. Even if profits halve in the next 2 years to 10% - does
that constitute a death of the industry? Pai's point is is that these are
high cash flow businesses, with enough margins and buffer to keep them
afloat and going for long. Further it's *my thesis* that these companies
have enough strengths they can leverage to turn it around. Yes, there's a
lot of pain in the short to medium term and many things will need to get
reinvited - such as change of hiring strategies that many have mentioned in
this thread, but this is just a bump in the larger scheme of things.

 

Re: [silk] Bump in the road, or end of the road?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

As for Pai pointing at Infosys PAT .. they're in that moment where wile e 
coyote is perfectly safe, only he's stepped off a cliff, standing over thin air 
and just about to raise a sign that reads "help"

I'm sure Deepak Shenoy can poke a few more holes than I can but .. Here are the 
rest of the numbers that blowhard / great financial genius missed out on

http://www.indiainfoline.com/article/equity-earnings-result-commentary/infosys-q1fy17-consolidated-net-profit-declines-4-qoq-to-rs-3436-crore-in-line-with-estimates-116071500326_1.html

--srs

> On 22-Oct-2016, at 12:35 AM, Sriram Karra  wrote:
> 
> So many thoughts on this topic... having spent 8 years in various roles in
> this industry Just a few quick observations here (in no particular
> order) on the specific challenges facing the Indian IT industry and some of
> the comments in this thread:
> 
>   - IT Services is not all about server maintenance or routine sysadmin
>   work. Application Development & Maintenance (of bespoke systems), Product
>   Engineering, Customisation and deployment of complex packages (like ERP
>   systems), and so on cannot be automated with the current state of the art,
>   nor are they dull or monotonous drudge work. I have myself worked as a
>   contractor for Cisco, maintained critical parts of their embedded OS (the
>   original IOS), developed thousands of lines of code, and new features, that
>   have powered (in some ways quite literally) the Catalyst 6500, a cash cow
>   for Cisco for nearly 15 years. It was a great experience to see engineers
>   from humble backgrounds perform high quality engineering for Cisco even in
>   its heyday.
> 
>   - Innovation comes in all sizes and shapes. We romanticise the Google /
>   Apple style of innovation at the expense of other forms. When my former
>   boss, at age 34, convinced John Chambers and Cisco at its peak (mid 90s) to
>   offshore product engineering work to Chennai, that was business innovation
>   too. The situation now is the Indian model is so well understood that there
>   are few levers left in negotiation, and the downward margin spiral that
>   Sikka keeps lamenting about are defining the mood about the industry (more
>   on the margins later). But this is not new either. Even way back in 2007/8
>   it was clear to insiders that more innovation is required with the business
>   models. We started talking the language of 'Fewer Better People' to change
>   the customer mindset from hourly billing to more outcome based pricing
>   models. Many companies have seen success in these endeavours. But no clear
>   industry-level breakthrough has emerged, and that is a worry. Maybe it
>   won't, but that does not mean the death of the industry.
> 
>   - What is certainly lamentable is these companies have gotten left
>   behind in the latest technology trends and by not paying enough attention
>   to building scalable businesses. But the threat of automation and "AI" is
>   somewhat exaggerated: the domestic IT demand is just warming up and you can
>   be sure that journey is going to start at the bottom of the pricing
>   hierarchy; in technology the next wave is always round the corner and they
>   only need to survive till the next wave comes around;
> 
>   - Mohandas Pai's response has some valid points. Infosys PAT was 21.9%
>   in FY 2015-16, which is very respectable. For comparison: Google's PAT for
>   FY 2015 was 21.8%. Accenture's was 12.5%. There is scope for players to
>   change their cost structure, remove dead wood, and change the reward system
>   to make them more competitive viz a viz the MNC biggies. But it is an open
>   question on whether they can pull off the execution. Maybe most won't, but
>   I do hope at least a few will, and we will all be better off for this
>   shakeup.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan 
> wrote:
> 
>> Comments?
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/737W8zcjPA6lGWIajRCd6K/Indian-
>> software-dies-at-17-from-failure-to-grasp-future.html
>> 
>> 
>> Indian software dies at 17 from failure to grasp future
>> The Indian software services industry died on Friday after a short
>> battle with newer digital technologies
>> 
>> A slowdown alone wouldn’t have stopped the Indian industry if it had
>> been able to embrace ‘smac,’ or social, mobile, analytics and
>> cloud-based technologies. Photo: Abhijit Bhatlekar/Mint
>> 
>> Singapore: Seventeen years ago an Indian man from New Delhi mesmerized
>> the technology departments of global corporations with a doomsday
>> story many times more puffed up than the luxuriant crop of hair he
>> sported.
>> The latter was a wig, and the former was just bad science fiction
>> packaged by consultants as a $600 billion hair-raiser. But Dewang
>> Mehta, the chief lobbyist for India’s fledgling software services
>> industry, carried off both with aplomb, convincing businesses that at
>> the stroke of midnight of the new 

Re: [silk] Bump in the road, or end of the road?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

The situation changes when you move up the value chain as you so clearly 
demonstrate.

But when a company builds its business model on hiring huge numbers of warm 
bodies to throw at drudgery that is rapidly being automated now even in the 
enterprise .. nobody at all in enterprise IT dreamed even five or six years 
back that a group of say ten people could single handedly provision a data 
center worth of servers, os and software installs, networks etc using puppet, 
chef, software driven networking and all that.

And several of them kept hiring manual testers long long after other companies 
switched wholesale to test automation.

And entry level tech support kids where a lot of that went over to more 
intelligent context sensitive help, chatbots and such.

Try to lay the lot off and they even face litigation and demands for trade 
unions - something that pampered industry least expected though entry level 
employees earn about as much as a driver does.

--srs

> On 22-Oct-2016, at 12:35 AM, Sriram Karra  wrote:
> 
> So many thoughts on this topic... having spent 8 years in various roles in
> this industry Just a few quick observations here (in no particular
> order) on the specific challenges facing the Indian IT industry and some of
> the comments in this thread:
> 
>   - IT Services is not all about server maintenance or routine sysadmin
>   work. Application Development & Maintenance (of bespoke systems), Product
>   Engineering, Customisation and deployment of complex packages (like ERP
>   systems), and so on cannot be automated with the current state of the art,
>   nor are they dull or monotonous drudge work. I have myself worked as a
>   contractor for Cisco, maintained critical parts of their embedded OS (the
>   original IOS), developed thousands of lines of code, and new features, that
>   have powered (in some ways quite literally) the Catalyst 6500, a cash cow
>   for Cisco for nearly 15 years. It was a great experience to see engineers
>   from humble backgrounds perform high quality engineering for Cisco even in
>   its heyday.
> 
>   - Innovation comes in all sizes and shapes. We romanticise the Google /
>   Apple style of innovation at the expense of other forms. When my former
>   boss, at age 34, convinced John Chambers and Cisco at its peak (mid 90s) to
>   offshore product engineering work to Chennai, that was business innovation
>   too. The situation now is the Indian model is so well understood that there
>   are few levers left in negotiation, and the downward margin spiral that
>   Sikka keeps lamenting about are defining the mood about the industry (more
>   on the margins later). But this is not new either. Even way back in 2007/8
>   it was clear to insiders that more innovation is required with the business
>   models. We started talking the language of 'Fewer Better People' to change
>   the customer mindset from hourly billing to more outcome based pricing
>   models. Many companies have seen success in these endeavours. But no clear
>   industry-level breakthrough has emerged, and that is a worry. Maybe it
>   won't, but that does not mean the death of the industry.
> 
>   - What is certainly lamentable is these companies have gotten left
>   behind in the latest technology trends and by not paying enough attention
>   to building scalable businesses. But the threat of automation and "AI" is
>   somewhat exaggerated: the domestic IT demand is just warming up and you can
>   be sure that journey is going to start at the bottom of the pricing
>   hierarchy; in technology the next wave is always round the corner and they
>   only need to survive till the next wave comes around;
> 
>   - Mohandas Pai's response has some valid points. Infosys PAT was 21.9%
>   in FY 2015-16, which is very respectable. For comparison: Google's PAT for
>   FY 2015 was 21.8%. Accenture's was 12.5%. There is scope for players to
>   change their cost structure, remove dead wood, and change the reward system
>   to make them more competitive viz a viz the MNC biggies. But it is an open
>   question on whether they can pull off the execution. Maybe most won't, but
>   I do hope at least a few will, and we will all be better off for this
>   shakeup.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan 
> wrote:
> 
>> Comments?
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/737W8zcjPA6lGWIajRCd6K/Indian-
>> software-dies-at-17-from-failure-to-grasp-future.html
>> 
>> 
>> Indian software dies at 17 from failure to grasp future
>> The Indian software services industry died on Friday after a short
>> battle with newer digital technologies
>> 
>> A slowdown alone wouldn’t have stopped the Indian industry if it had
>> been able to embrace ‘smac,’ or social, mobile, analytics and
>> cloud-based technologies. Photo: Abhijit Bhatlekar/Mint
>> 
>> Singapore: Seventeen years ago an Indian man from New Delhi mesmerized
>> the technology departments of global 

Re: [silk] Bump in the road, or end of the road?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Yes that’s the ticket.  The one thing is – if you use the same scripts / 
software etc that you develop to analyse this client’s data to do anything 
similar for another client (or then proceed to sell such software as a product) 
– well, there be dragons.

--srs

On 19/10/16, 11:50 PM, "silklist on behalf of Bhaskar Dasgupta" 
 wrote:

Happy to be corrected but I've used client data quite happily to provide 
additional services back to them. 

If I aggregate the data and flog it to others then I need permission 

 

Re: [silk] Bump in the road, or end of the road?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

My bet is that any IP the company derives by making use of client data – even 
for testing purposes – will very likely meet with a successful claim from the 
customer’s IP / copyright attorneys.

Operational metrics are what the approval extends to.  NOT new product 
development based on those metrics.

I think you’ll find a standard clause in most such contracts which state that 
any tools, scripts or similar that the vendor develops for work / processing of 
the customer data have IP assigned to the customer.

Gaining control of ALL the deliverables of any such outsourcing assignment is 
generally standard best practice in the industry.

I am sure we have enough corporate / IP attorneys here who can comment.  Every 
other silk member seems to be an NLS alumnus or friends with one. ☺

--srs

On 19/10/16, 5:04 PM, "silklist on behalf of Bhaskar Dasgupta" 
 wrote:

The data belongs to the customer but the supplier has approval to use that 
data. For operational metrics. 

What I suggested was to make that into a product instead of just a stupid 
sla operational report. 

Jai ho
 

Re: [silk] Bump in the road, or end of the road?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Depends on price points.

Out in the middle east, fewer people needed to work period – all the important 
stuff, right from building houses and hauling away trash to keeping the banks 
running were done by people falling on the scale between immigrant (labourer), 
skilled immigrant (person of color with suit and tie and qualifications) and 
expat (white dude with much the same skills as a skilled immigrant).

That didn’t get too far at all – despite impressive levels of automation and 
computerization.

On 19/10/16, 11:54 AM, "silklist on behalf of Alaric Snell-Pym" 
 wrote:

On 19/10/16 06:50, Bhaskar Dasgupta wrote:
> only issue is, how much will you get paid to just walk around? If we
> want to take an example, see the wages of waiters…without minimum
> wage floors, its impossible to survive. flip side, who will pay for
> it? the average joe or mango man will have very little discretionary
> funds to spend on stuff like this. even micro-payments wouldnt help,
> you need a bare minimum to get some basics in place and the capacity
> or desire to pay for this has gone. Look at our smart phones. besides
> the phone itself, pretty much all the value add via the apps are
> free. If I look at my app and i look at my interactions, extremely
> little is actually being paid for to the creator. very very little.
> and that also goes to large corporates who can scale up.

Well, hopefully, this will happen:

1) The cost of living will decrease. Technology should make food,
clothing, and healthcare cheap - and everything else is a luxury apart
from housing, which is a trickier issue. There's a housing bubble in the
UK, and rising population won't help. I feel the problem is human (how
we pay for housing) rather than physical (the actual cost of housing
everyone), however.

2) Fewer people will need to work to do the "important stuff" (eg,
provide the essentials of living), thanks to automation. More and more
jobs will be in providing things we like, rather than things we need.

3) This will cause a change in ideology. Until now, we've had a dominant
notion that we need people to work. But with more and more work being,
basically, just for fun (be it somebody else's fun or your own), this
idea should erode.

4) At that point, the idea of moving towards a universal basic income
becomes palatable. As a society, creating an environment where people
don't need to fight for ever scarcer jobs to survive starts to seem a
valid use of taxpayer's money. People can choose to just live, rather
than between "live to work or work to live".

ABS

-- 
Alaric Snell-Pym
http://www.snell-pym.org.uk/alaric/

Re: [silk] Bump in the road, or end of the road?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Higher order skills in walking around maybe?

I think he was talking about, for example marketers, who will still be around 
regardless of how much SMAC the industry leverages to sell whatever rubbish it 
is focused on selling.

--srs

On 19/10/16, 11:20 AM, "silklist on behalf of Bhaskar Dasgupta" 
 wrote:

only issue is, how much will you get paid to just walk around? If we want 
to take an example, see the wages of waiters…without minimum wage floors, its 
impossible to survive. flip side, who will pay for it? the average joe or mango 
man will have very little discretionary funds to spend on stuff like this. even 
micro-payments wouldnt help, you need a bare minimum to get some basics in 
place and the capacity or desire to pay for this has gone. Look at our smart 
phones. besides the phone itself, pretty much all the value add via the apps 
are free. If I look at my app and i look at my interactions, extremely little 
is actually being paid for to the creator. very very little. and that also goes 
to large corporates who can scale up. 

 

Re: [silk] Bump in the road, or end of the road?

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

If that data is their customers’ – it is NOT theirs to play with.

And any improvements and automation in such data can only be delivered right 
back to their customer and nobody else, there’s enough NDAs around for that 
plus serious penalties for when they try to leverage a resource they have 
available in one team for another team.  TCS found that out the hard way in 
that Kaiser Permanente case where a former member on their team for that client 
continued to use his (still active and not shut down as their famed process 
orientedness should have made them do) kp.com login credentials to access tech 
support manuals on behalf of another client that he was not licensed for.  And 
then shared that credential across several other teams, including those that 
developed a competitor to that very software.  [add “allegedly” to taste for 
all this, these are the allegations made by the plaintiff against TCS anyway].

If there’s some software they make that they sell to customers, they would have 
to be dumb indeed not to leverage the hilt out of any and every bit of 
analytics and telemetry they get their hands on, but I’m the last person to 
accuse more than one player in the Indian software industry of intelligence.

--srs

On 19/10/16, 11:06 AM, "silklist on behalf of Bhaskar Dasgupta" 
<silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net on behalf of 
bdasgu...@gmail.com> wrote:

one of the examples I had asked to be funded was to leverage their data. 
this company manages banking processes. what i wanted was to tie up with ISI 
(not that one) and hire a small skunk work of data scientists and a data design 
/ visualisation centre. And then wanted to do what rolls royce have done with 
their trent engines - they make a stupendous amount of money by monitoring 
their engines on a real time basis in flight and saving airlines shed loads of 
dosh. So i would’ve provided a set of tools, constantly evolving, to the heads 
of operations on their process flows, heads of sales on sales analytics, heads 
of product design on competitive features, and so on and so forth. And once I 
have sufficient coverage, I can setup a banking product market place. World 
Domination! result? god no, we cant pay these phd’s that much! no? then you 
will lose them to american firms who can and will. but that will cause the pay 
scales to be fucked up internally. ok, lets spin off this firm. we don’t do 
spinoffs. why? 100% owned subsidiaries are good and actually you can IPO it as 
their multiples will be better. Oh! that decision is above my pay grade (this 
is the president of the division!) you can fuck off. /facepalm. 

forget about creating new products, buggers don’t even leverage what they 
have! they are sitting on a fucking gold mine of rivers of data (if you don’t 
mind me mangling metaphors) and are happy to sit there and fish for minnows or 
get paid lowly for tending the sodding river bank. 



> On 19 Oct 2016, at 06:06, Suresh Ramasubramanian <sur...@hserus.net> 
wrote:
> 
> IT companies buying product companies in a desperate bid to innovate .. 
let us just say that I’ve seen a lot of that happen at a previous workplace.
> 
> The usual end result is that the founders and key employees quit in 
disgust after a while and those that are left are gradually absorbed into the 
company doing something totally different than what they set out to do.  
> 
> And meanwhile the product itself is killed off immediately, or maybe dies 
a slow and lingering death with a few legacy customers left behind and 
practically zero further development.
> 
> Big companies that don’t have DNA beyond being pushers of software that 
most if not all users have a visceral hatred for, and/or bloated services 
contracts, are absolutely not going to infuse any magical fresh DNA into them 
by acquiring successful product companies
> 
> The prospect of such foreign DNA taking root in the company is far less 
than in the case of an organ transplant – the sort you get in mad scientist 
movies where a scientist transplants human dna / tissue / whatever into an ape 
and suddenly ends up with a super intelligent planet of the apes or Gorilla 
Grodd variety animal.
> 
> Mohandas Pai is a smug and opinionated twit but he got one thing right 
though. The software industry didn’t die – it will survive and it will probably 
hang on, but the traditional indian (or even foreign) services model is long 
dead in favour of automation.  The only things that won’t be automated to a 
large extent are higher up the value chain than such companies generally play 
around at.   And the hanging on will be the way a really old and sick man keeps 
hanging on – perpetually in the chasm between Allopathy and Tirupathi.
> 
> In other words, the days of 15% raises are dead and gone, companies 
outsourcing basic bargain b