groups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Wu
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 3:27 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
Bill,
Bad example. A better one is to compare zazen to eating your fligh
of zen is to reach 'just
this', instead of just eating and sleeping.
Anthony
--- On Sun, 24/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:
From: billsm...@hhs1963.org
Subject: RE: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 24 Oct
Chris Wrote:
"Of course, even then, there is no person to care. Just caring".
Mayka:
Indeed Chris. Thanks.
--- On Sat, 23/10/10, ChrisAustinLane wrote:
From: ChrisAustinLane
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: "Zen_Forum@yahoogr
n the pot. The soil become the geraniums!.
Mayka
--- On Sat, 23/10/10, Mark Perew wrote:
From: Mark Perew
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 23 October, 2010, 0:40
Mayka -
Over the 4 billion or
Ed,
I'll respond only to my comment which was in support of one of Chris'
comments (not all of them). His comment and my response was:
[Chris] I was arguing that reality cannot be divided into two distinct
things, people and nature...
[Bill!] I'll second that!
I support Chris' statement because
g it a little
for clarification:
'What goal(s) does your zen practice have?'
.Bill!
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of ED
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 10:22 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural
/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:
From: billsm...@hhs1963.org
Subject: RE: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 23 October, 2010, 5:49 PM
Ed, I’m not sure what else there is to say. Zen practice is just zen
p
, just this.
Anthony
--- On Sat, 23/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:
From: billsm...@hhs1963.org
Subject: RE: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 23 October, 2010, 10:53 AM
Anthony,
Nature has no goals
Bill, does the term 'zen practice' refer to zazen after one's first
experiences of kensho?
Thanks, ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
>
> Ed, I'm not sure what else there is to say. Zen practice is just
zen
> practice. It's not done to achieve or change anything. Everything
is
> per
Mark, Chris and Bill,
I fail to understand what the issue really is. To me, reality is
reality, nature is nature, and people are people.
--ED
Definitions of reality:
* world: all of your experiences that determine how things appear to
you; "his world was shattered"; "we live in differen
@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of ED
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 10:57 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
Bill,
Can you say a little more about this matter?
--ED
--- In Zen_Forum
Chris,
I’ll second that! …Bill!
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
ChrisAustinLane
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 2:53 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
I was arguing
I was arguing that reality cannot be divided into two distinct things, people
and nature (despite what people might naturally think).
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Oct 22, 2010, at 20:24, Mark Perew wrote:
>
>
> Chris -
>
> I think you've rebutted your own statement.
Bill,
Can you say a little more about this matter?
--ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
>
> Zen practice has no goals.
> Bill!
Chris -
I think you've rebutted your own statement. The separation from Nature is
illusion, maya, etc.
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:52 PM, ChrisAustinLane wrote:
>
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Austin-Lane
> Sent from a cell phone
>
> On Oct 22, 2010, at 16:40, Mark Perew wrote:
>
> > Nature does not car
is', or Just
THIS!
No goals, no expectations, just the way it is, Just THIS!
…Bill!
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Wu
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 5:32 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Oct 22, 2010, at 16:40, Mark Perew wrote:
> Nature does not care what we do, because there is no person there to care.
People are a part of nature. People are a part of nature that has a complex
enough brain to get confused and try to liv
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Oct 22, 2010, at 10:19, Mark Perew wrote:
> Nature does not complain, since nature does not have have any attachments to
> how things "should be". Nature neither accepts nor rejects what is. Nature
> just is.
This division of things into
Mayka -
Over the 4 billion or so years that planet Earth has existed, life has come
and gone many times. This infinitesimal grain of sand we call home has been
heated by volcanoes and dust, frozen over, slammed into by even smaller
rocks, and poisoned with oxygen. Each event was traumatic, and l
Doesn't it? Then why were you born? Why are there myriads of things, instead of
nothing existing?
Anthony
--- On Sat, 23/10/10, ED wrote:
From: ED
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 23 October, 201
Mark said: "Nature has no goals"
The one single law that nature is (in effect) driven by is the
replication and survival of living entities.
--ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mark Perew wrote:
>
> Chris -
>
> My first wife slept through much of the labor of our first child. This
was
zazen, mindfulness, awareness...
To hear, see, smell, sense...all that we can't differently.
Mayka
--- On Fri, 22/10/10, Mark Perew wrote:
From: Mark Perew
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 22 October, 2
t;>
> >> From:
> >> Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com<http://de.mc862.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
> Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com<http://de.mc862.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com>]
> On Behalf Of Maria Lopez
> >&g
rous?
>>
>> …Bill!
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
>> Of Maria Lopez
>> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 8:37 PM
>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [Zen] Positive ne
Chris,
The higlighted portion of my post below was not intended as a
recommendation, but as a (sort-of) koan to contemplate.
--ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane wrote:
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Oct 22, 2010, at 7:38, "ED" > wrote:
> Therefore
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Oct 22, 2010, at 7:38, "ED" wrote:
> Therefore the would-be yeller needs ask himself/herself the question:
No! That is just adding mental activity on top of the impulse to yell.
If you are unsure about the yelling, breath, wait, and see i
hat. But I know that in the beach everyone can hear me yelling. That
yelling is actually very good because it helps me to cope and reheat my body
better.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mayka
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 21/10/10, billsm...@h
Chris said: ... giving your all for something other than your self, ...
Generally all human actions are directed toward the interests of self
and groups we identify with.
But you assert that child-birth with its blood, sweat and tears is an
exception to the universal self-centered focus of hu
t: Thursday, October 21, 2010 8:37 PM
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill:
>
>
>
> Is it violent?. What I have tried is that every time I'm about of getti
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez wrote:
>
> You missed the point again.
What point have I missed again?
> And by the way, nature screams when something harms it.
Yes, nature has every reason to scream:
"Who trusted God was love indeed And love Creation's final law Tho'
Nature,
get into
water.
Mayka
--- On Fri, 22/10/10, ED wrote:
From: ED
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 22 October, 2010, 15:38
Mayka asked: "Is it [the yelling] violent?"
Mayka,
Mayka asked: "Is it [the yelling] violent?"
Mayka,
Yelling is just what it is - yelling.
But yelling in public can be quite annoying and disturbing to some or
many.
Therefore the would-be yeller needs ask himself/herself the question:
"Shall I apply my understanding of zen to *myself* an
eria takes place for there is nothing
to cuddle and take care, letting be expressed out.
Mayka
--- On Fri, 22/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:
From: billsm...@hhs1963.org
Subject: RE: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date:
: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
Bill:
Is it violent?. What I have tried is that every time I'm about of getting
into the bath, laying my back on the very cold material of the bath I emit a
very long sound wit
Trying to grasp something ED?
--- On Thu, 21/10/10, ED wrote:
From: ED
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 21 October, 2010, 18:36
Rose,
The dualistic conception of open-mindedness/closed
Rose,
The dualistic conception of open-mindedness/closed-mindedness is a
meaningless, illusory/delusory fixation of our religio-cultural
mind-set.
For instance, is it the Supreme Ayatollah, the Pope or the Grand Rabbi
of Yahoo groups who will infallibly pronounce on who is which
(open-minded o
The reactive react so that the non-reactive may better exhibit their
spontaneity. ;-)
--ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
>
You do react, but your reactions are spontaneous not premeditated.
Bill!
learn really well what is this mindfulness
about then one has to go to the real source of this teaching and that is TNH
and his monastics. Attending a retreat with them.
Mayka
--- On Thu, 21/10/10, Rose P wrote:
From: Rose P
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brai
Bill:
You do react, but your reactions are spontaneous not premeditated.
Good point.
Mayka
--- On Thu, 21/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:
From: billsm...@hhs1963.org
Subject: RE: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday
llent breathing technique…Bill!
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Maria Lopez
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 2:03 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
That sounds terri
stripping them right back, and taking them away
from their context (sort of thing).
Rose
--- On Wed, 10/20/10, Maria Lopez wrote:
From: Maria Lopez
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 201
: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
That sounds terrible Chris. And this is what I meant by reading or overhearing
about breathing but with no experience at all into that. As a woman I should
have encouraged her to yell
not premeditated.
…Bill!
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Maria Lopez
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 11:36 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
Rose:
Non being
they can make an statistics about the
heart too.
Mayka
--- On Wed, 20/10/10, ChrisAustinLane wrote:
From: ChrisAustinLane
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: "Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com"
Cc: "Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com"
Date: We
Rose,
All teachers and Eastern traditions, and now Western
psychologists/pychotherapitsts are essentially saying the same things
about meditation:
o Two of the principal causes of human suffering are a strong desire and
grasping for what we like and a strong aversion to, fear of, hate for,
cri
obably an
unattainable one.
Rose
--- On Wed, 10/20/10, Maria Lopez wrote:
From: Maria Lopez
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2010, 12:16 PM
Empathy, care for a patient, al
t in others? Or always helpful.? For a beginner like
> myself there's something appealing about non-reactivity as a 'goal', albeit
> probably an unattainable one.
>
> Rose
>
> --- On Wed, 10/20/10, Maria Lopez wrote:
>
> From: Maria Lopez
> Subject:
Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone
On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:16, Maria Lopez wrote:
> If mindfulness is show in a scientific way the outcome will be a disaster
I have more faith. Scientists are humans, and there has already been much
suffering relieved by the meditation based thera
My teacher spoke of neither pushing away the moment nor grabbing onto the
moment. Life flows through us peacefully.
But many practitioners and neurologists emphasize that it is not not getting
upset but recovering quickly and with awareness that is key. Irritants pop up
from time to time. To
r who embodies that heart. Nothing at all is
possible without the heart. If mindfulness is show in a scientific way the
outcome will be a disaster
--- On Wed, 20/10/10, Rose P wrote:
From: Rose P
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yaho
, 20/10/10, Rose P wrote:
From: Rose P
Subject: Re: [Zen] Positive neural changes in the brain due to meditation?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 20 October, 2010, 12:21
This was a really interesting article Ed. The bit that really stood out for me
was 'Yea
This was a really interesting article Ed. The bit that really stood out for me
was 'Years of meditation cultivates a natural non-reactivity to experience.' It
made me wonder whether, once everything else is stripped away (the words, the
concepts, the debates, and indeed the 'wondering'...), is n
ED and all:
I'd like to share an experience.
I've been having physiotherapy for a very severe case left frozen shoulder once
a week with no interruptions since August 2009. My physiotherapist is
brilliant. We work really well together because we do that as a non separation
from the left sh
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