Re: [ZION] Carob beans

See, folks? You have a question, and there's always someone on the list who a) knows the answer; b) may not know, but knows how to find out; and even on occasion, c) hasn't a clue but can concoct an answer with such an air of authority that no one cares if it's right or not ;-) [Thanks, Jim] Jim

Re: [ZION] Going, Going, Gone

Hmm. I was able to get at it. But just in case, I've cut-and-paste it at the end of this post. Formatting may be a bit out of whack, but at least you'll have the text. George Cobabe wrote: > story no longer available - if you want us to read it you almost need to > copy and paste. > > George > >

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

I think we're all in that boat. But speculation can be fun sometimes, too :-) Jim Cobabe wrote: > Paul Osborne wrote: > --- > God does what his Father did before him... > --- > > Paul, I agree with this idea, but then must confess that it is about as > far as I'm able to go, philosophically. I d

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Jim Cobabe wrote: > > > I'm pretty clear on these particulars, and adding others day by day, as > I can manage. One can't really ask for anything more. Good thing this is all good, clean fun, eh? -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland “Knowledge m

Re: [ZION] Iraq

Jon Spencer wrote: > You are probably wrong. > > War is not imminent because we are not ready. We will be in about one > month. > So why did two complete naval battle groups start sailing *out of* the Middle East earlier this week? Actually, this is an area where my "prognostication" has a wea

RE: [ZION] Subject to natural law

John, I'm honestly not trying to promote Protestant doctrine. But there are obviously some issues here that merit further consideration. I am sure you realize that we are not necessarily covering new ground in any of our discussions on this list. I have little doubt that the people of this

RE: [ZION] Natural Law

Another interesting reference to this question-- God is the author of law, not its creation or its servant. All light and all law emanate from him (see D&C 88:13). Indeed, "all kingdoms have a law given; and there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and t

RE: [ZION] Subject to natural law

George Cobabe wrote: --- I can agree "that God is "subject to 'natural law", but only in the sense that He has created those laws and needs to maintain the integrity to obey the same rules that He has created. If He did not honor His word or His law He would cease to be God. --- The possibili

Re: [ZION] Going, Going, Gone

story no longer available - if you want us to read it you almost need to copy and paste. George - Original Message - From: "Marc A. Schindler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "zion-l" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:55 PM Subject: [ZION] Going, Going, Gone A rare column

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

I can agree "that God is "subject to 'natural law", but only in the sense that He has created those laws and needs to maintain the integrity to obey the same rules that He has created. If He did not honor His word or His law He would cease to be God. George - Original Message - From:

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

It's quite possible. My point is simply that God uses humans for His own ends, *whether those people are aware of it or not*. After all, we use technology today for the benefit of the Church (as well as society as a whole) that was developed by men and women of all kinds of faith, including no fai

[ZION] Carob beans

Carob is a unique substance that has an appearance similar to cocoa. It comes from the Ceratonia siliqua, an evergreen tree native to the Eastern Mediterranean area. This relatively wild tree, which grows up to 50 feet tall, bears fruit at the age of six to eight years with a greater abundance

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

Jon Spencer wrote: > This is all fine and dandy, Marc, but you sidestepped my question. > > Do you drink beer? (And, while I'm at it, did you play Homer on the > series?) :-) > My promotion contract with Duff Inc. prohibits me from answering this question, on the advice of my legal counsel

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

Jim, as one hammer to another, you have hit the nail right on the head: these words have "baggage" that we have to be wary of. I don't think any of us here are really disagreeing with each other in substance (to use another word full of ancient baggage), but only in semantics. Jim Cobabe wrote:

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

Stephen Beecroft wrote: > -John- > > It is my understanding of Mormon doctrine that the laws by which > > Heavenly Father became and exalted being are coeternal with him. > > They are uncreate. And it was by obedience to these laws that > > he because God. > > My understanding follows Jim's quo

RE: [ZION] Subject to natural law

Paul Osborne wrote: --- God does what his Father did before him... --- Paul, I agree with this idea, but then must confess that it is about as far as I'm able to go, philosophically. I don't claim to have much more insight here than extends from my own simple common sense, which really is pre

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

I understand that we would be wary of talking about God in any limiting way. But if you will permit me a bit of "spin latitude" on this, you can always turn the question around and say that it was those bad bad Catholics who ruined theology with their martial language, fit only to order troops and

Re: [ZION] Natural Law

They are all duly queued, waiting merely to be cued... Stephen Beecroft wrote: > Ah, well. Cue the violins. At least I know how to spell > carob-beans.) > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland “Knowledge may give weight, but accomplishments give lu

Re: [ZION] Microsoft interview questions

OK. How do you pronounce the word "iron?" Do you say "I earn" or do you say "I Ron" or what? Jon - Original Message - From: "Marc A. Schindler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Microsoft interview questions Ther

Re: [ZION] Iraq

You are probably wrong. War is not imminent because we are not ready. We will be in about one month. Also, I believe that the statements Bush makes are directed at Saddam primarily, and not at the US populace. I also believe that the US is trying very hard to get a rebellion going in Iraq, alth

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

George Cobabe wrote: --- "Then the discussion might be more profitable if we separated our existing universe fromwell, whatever it is that transcends it." We must do so to even begin to understand, or for that matter argue over, such matters. It is the only thing that we are concerned wit

Re: [ZION] The latest from Iraq

I quoted you the exact wording that made my point. I do not need to "spin" anything. Here it is again, since you keep deleting it in your responses, so please either do me the courtesy of addressing the issue, or admit either apathy (which is fine if you're tired of discussing it) or error: ==

[ZION] Iraq

Am I For or Against War in Iraq? Somebody Please Persuade Me, pleads Globe and Mail columnist and Generation-X'er Doug Saunders, writing from CFB Kingston (where my son has taken sigint training, incidentally, and near where he's currently attending university): <

[ZION] Going, Going, Gone

A rare column by Canada's funniest conservative [tm] which is deadpan serious and with which I agree (that combination being what's "rare," I mean), on Henry Kissinger, Cardinal Law, and Trent Lott http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?id={F0F3B60D-1024-4F3C-8E75-9F9E177632CD} -- Marc A. Sch

[ZION] What does a frigate do?

Ever wonder what the difference is between, say, a destroyer and a frigate? Easy: frigates protect battleships and aircraft carriers. A story from aboard the HMCS Winnipeg in the Gulf of Oman: http://www.nationalpost.com/search/site/story.asp?id=233C28A0-78ED-4BA2-BB04-C8A6AFCCC9EF -- Marc A. Sc

[ZION] "Dr" Red Green was right all along

Duct tape really is good for you... http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?id={C5BC794A-4AC7-4177-93A3-31E9EA95D88E} -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland “Knowledge may give weight, but accomplishments give lustre, and many more people see tha

Re: [ZION] Natural Law

Stephen - apparently you are not the only one who admires him as I found an inordinate amount of references to his publication on the subject of natural law. He was quoted by all sorts of people. Thanks for reading the long post I sent. George - Original Message - From: "Stephen Beecrof

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

He cannot break the laws that He has agreed to follow. He cannot break His promises to his children. If he did so he would cease to be God. Note that both examples are self limiting, decisions that He has to make and agree to. George - Original Message - From: "Stephen Beecroft" <[EMA

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

"Then the discussion might be more profitable if we separated our existing universe fromwell, whatever it is that transcends it." We must do so to even begin to understand, or for that matter argue over, such matters. It is the only thing that we are concerned with.except as understanding the

RE: [ZION] The latest from Iraq

Marc Schindler: That was not my point at all. Please reread it. ... You are not criticizing what I wrote, but how you *read* it. ___ I'm not criticizing anything. You are ignoring my point and I am ignoring your bait. Spin on. Larry Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] __

RE: [ZION] Natural Law

-George- > Much of what is quoted by Sis Black is from a paper by LaMar > Garrard, "God, Natural Law, and the Doctrine and Covenants" Brother Garrard may well have been my wife's and my favorite teacher at BYU, even though we only ever had him for one class. When he came in the first day, I thou

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

> I would be surprised if any man or woman can name something that > God cannot do, whether because of the limitations of "natural >law" or anything else, that doesn't fall into this class of > false-by-definition. Sorry for the weenie-speak. Let me try again: I disbelieve that any man or woman

[ZION] Natural Law

The purpose of my giving these quotations is not to prove that I am right, when I suggest that God created what we think of as Natural Law, but rather to suggest that there are a great many people who agree with me in that concept. Read particularly the conclusions of a paper at the end of the ema

RE: [ZION] Subject to natural law

-John- > It is my understanding of Mormon doctrine that the laws by which > Heavenly Father became and exalted being are coeternal with him. > They are uncreate. And it was by obedience to these laws that > he because God. My understanding follows Jim's quotation of Joseph Smith's teachings and

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

-Marc- > The problem arises out of the word "natural," and is a limitation > of our language. By natural are we referring to the corruptible > telestial world, or are we referring simply to the fact that > there are higher laws which are "natural" but which operate in > *their* realms, and which we

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

God does what his Father did before him... Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com //

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

George Cobabe wrote: > Marc - it seems the question is not he definition of natural law, except as > it involves who created that law. > > The question is: Did God, i.e. our God, create the natural law for his > creation or did He just transpose it from the overall eternal concept of > Natural

RE: [ZION] Subject to natural law

John W. Redelfs wrote: --- The idea that he made all the laws included those by which he progressed to become a God is a Protestant idea. It is akin to creating something from nothing, which of course is impossible even for God. --- One of the problems we encounter in discussing such ideas is

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

This is all fine and dandy, Marc, but you sidestepped my question. Do you drink beer? (And, while I'm at it, did you play Homer on the series?) :-) Jon - Original Message - From: "Marc A. Schindler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:23 PM Sub

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

One of the things that I love about this list is that we can spat about one thread while we are kissing and hugging on another. Jon - Original Message - From: "Marc A. Schindler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Afgha

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

John W. Redelfs wrote: > Power corrupts, and absolute > power corrupts absolutely. Then, it must follow as night follows day that everyone on this list is lily white, since if any of us had any power we wouldn't have the time to spend on this email list! Jon /

[ZION] LDS Ex-Utah Representative Found Dead in Tel Aviv

[Thanks to Scott Gordon at FAIR for bringing this to my attention] http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20021218_2241.html Ex-Utah Rep. Owens Found Dead in Tel Aviv Former Utah Rep. Wayne Owens Found Dead on Tel Aviv Beach; He Was 65 The Associated Press WASHINGTON Dec. 18th Wayne Owens, a former U

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

>The other doctrine, that he created all the natural laws, >is a Protestant doctrine. Yep, I agree with John. The laws of the universe were not invented but have always been. There never was a first Father... Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin?? Two of my most favorites. :-) I think had they lived a little later they would have been unfailing arms of the prophet Joseph Smith. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Inte

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Thanks for the additional insight. Looks like I was a bit out-of-date -- I was stretching back to my bonehead philosophy class in university. But there must be some kind of term for a belief in an *im*personal higher power. Any philosophers on the list? "John W. Redelfs" wrote: > This isn't quite

Re: [ZION] World's Tallest Buildings

My wife treated me to pizza tonight (we went to the local Boston Pizza) and she was telling me that she had heard that one of the guys who crashed the plane into the WTC was an architect, and had very strong (doh!) opinions on how the West's architecture was blasphemous. I won't go into all of what

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Marc - it seems the question is not he definition of natural law, except as it involves who created that law. The question is: Did God, i.e. our God, create the natural law for his creation or did He just transpose it from the overall eternal concept of Natural Law. Is every universe, form every

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

We'll give you enough time for you and JWR to become gods, but no longer. We're an impatient bunch, ya know... George Cobabe wrote: > Give me some time John and I think I can demonstrate that this is not > necessarily so. > > George > > - Original Message - > From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMA

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

You've said it much more coherently and succinctly than I did. Thanks. As I've explained in a separate post to Stephen, it depends on what you mean by "natural" law. There are, I think, two connotations, one an earthly ("corruptible") sense and one an eternal ("incorruptible") sense, but not "magic

Re: [ZION] New guy

"John W. Redelfs" wrote: > It would have been nice if you had joined me in my protest, Marc. I don't > remember hearing a peep from you. There is a bishop in my stake who is a > longtime Mormon-L-er, and he didn't say anything either. Bob Westover > didn't say anything either. I wasn't so di

Re: [ZION] Microsoft interview questions

There is a carob bean, actually, and I know it's grown in tropical climates, but that's about all I know about it. I'm not sure what they do with it, except perhaps use its oil (like canola, linseed or safflower). This reminds me of an incident that happened when JWR was at our house. I said the w

Re: [ZION] LOTR

Ah, well, that's the connection, then, since even I knew that Cronenberg is Canadian (I do really lousy on the "pink" questions in Trivial Pursuit). Tom Matkin wrote: > Marc makes an admission of rare ignorance of things Canadian: > > > > > I don't know. Tom, Mark? > > Turns out that Howard Shore

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

I think we just need to be careful how we're using the terms. If I may be a bit presumptuous, there is a sense in which I would agree with you, if you're using the term the way Kent P. Jackson does: [studies in Scripture, vol. 7:1] The Creation There is a tendency for people in our generation to d

[ZION] World's Tallest Buildings

I think it is hubris to imagine we should build towers still taller than the WTC. Sure they can build them, but the experience with the WTC proves that someone else can knock them down. What is the point? Why make buildings a tempting target unnecessarily? I should think that the builders o

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

Give me some time John and I think I can demonstrate that this is not necessarily so. George - Original Message - From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law > Jim Cobabe favore

[ZION]

I am getting a bit off base here as we are having a discussion in two dimensions. Comments on Fair and on Zion both seem to be on topic. This is a repeat of what I said on the other list I approach the problem differently than do some of you, in that I look at the descriptions given of God, acce

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

Jim Cobabe favored us with: I think it is not doctrinal to assert that Heavenly Father is "subject to natural law" in the same sense that we are. To put it thus incorrectly reverses the attribution of cause. God decreed the laws of the universe, and sustains them by the word of His power--the la

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Stephen Beecroft favored us with: -Marc- > We LDS do *not* believe God is omnipotent in the sense the Romans > used this term -- we believe he's subject to "natural law," Perhaps you believe so. I don't. God's word defines "natural law". He is the master, not the subject. That is why he is called

Re: [ZION] New guy

Marc A. Schindler favored us with: > Stacy Smith favored us with: > >Well, I'd like to know just how many such lists there are. Judging from > >other lists on other subjects, there must be hundreds out there. > > For a while I was the Open Directory Project editor in charge of listing > the LDS e

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

-Stephen- > God's word defines "natural law". He is the master, not the > subject. That is why he is called the Lawgiver. -Jim- > Yes, I thought that was a significant point to emphasize. Interesting that we independently arrived at a similar conclusion, even using similar wording. Almost like w

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Thomas Jefferson was a deist; these days he would probably be a Unitarian, and Benjamin Franklin was not an observing Christian, either, from what I remember. I'm not saying he was an atheist, but iirc, his own thinking tended towards deism as well (the differe

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Stephen Beecroft wrote: --- God's word defines "natural law". He is the master, not the subject. That is why he is called the Lawgiver. --- Yes, I thought that was a significant point to emphasize. Perhaps this is just another one of those silly, figurative notions that unenlightened fundament

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Jim Cobabe wrote: > It is instructive that many of the revisionists who spin this "deist" > misinformation, primarily about Jefferson, are openly and dogmatically > promoting their own flavor of atheist or agnostic evangelism. There is > really no compelling documentation to support their argum

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Geoff FOWLER wrote: > > > I also agree that we do not understand *how* God's omniscience works. > However, any discussion of the attributes of God falls under what you > term as "trying to fit God into a box we can understand." Since we are > not like Him yet, and hence do not understand everyth

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

-Marc- > We LDS do *not* believe God is omnipotent in the sense the Romans > used this term -- we believe he's subject to "natural law," Perhaps you believe so. I don't. God's word defines "natural law". He is the master, not the subject. That is why he is called the Lawgiver. Stephen /

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

Jim Cobabe wrote: > I think it is not doctrinal to assert that Heavenly Father is "subject > to natural law" in the same sense that we are. To put it thus > incorrectly reverses the attribution of cause. > Ah, there's a crucial difference there: "that we are." I would agree with your modified

RE: [ZION] Microsoft interview questions

-Marc- > No wonder Microsoft's spellchecker is so lousy ;-) (carabiners, > from a German word for "carbine hook". Ah. I had never seen/heard the term, and the guy (Russian) called/spelled them "carob-beaners". I wondered how that term had come about. What's a "carob bean", anyway? But I had not

RE: [ZION] LOTR

Marc makes an admission of rare ignorance of things Canadian: > > I don't know. Tom, Mark? Turns out that Howard Shore is a Canadian and that he cut his composing teeth on those old David Cronenberg suspense movies like "The Fly" and "Scanners". I actually own a 1/2000 share of "Scanners" alt

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Geoff FOWLER wrote: --- As far as Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin go (as well as perhaps others of the Founding Fathers), their drift toward deism and away from institutionalized Christianity may have been as much due to the corrupt sects of the day as any other. Perhaps history knows th

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

The real question is who created the law for this universe. Are the laws for this universe, and this God, different from those of other universes? If God was the one who created the unique laws for this creation, then He would surely be Omnipotent in every sense of the word - Latin or otherwise.

[ZION] Iraq

I can't say "I told you so" yet but Bush has announced today that despite the omissions in the report on WMD delivered by Iraq to the UN (and only today being given to the non-permanent members of the Security Council, incidentally), war is not imminent. I've been of the opinion since this issue a

[ZION] New WTC plans announced

New York has decided to go with a mixture of skyscrapers and memoria, although the exact plan has yet to be chosen. The new towers will surpass the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur (currently the world's tallest building[s]), although not, iiirc, one or two buildings proposed for Shanghai and Hong K

[ZION] Subject to natural law

I think it is not doctrinal to assert that Heavenly Father is "subject to natural law" in the same sense that we are. To put it thus incorrectly reverses the attribution of cause. God decreed the laws of the universe, and sustains them by the word of His power--the laws are subordinate to Him

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

>>> Marc intelligently replied: >Be careful when you use Latinate terms: they are often >more restrictive than LDS doctrines. [...] >But that raises the philosophical dilemma of free will. We LDS >do *not* believe God is omnipotent in the sense the Romans >used this term -- we believe he's subj

Re: [ZION] Microsoft interview questions

Stephen Beecroft wrote: > The funnest thing about interviewing at Microsoft are the famous (or > infamous) "interview questions", of which you're likely to get at least > one per interview. A classic example is: > > You have three closed barrels in front of you, one filled with black > marbles,

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Believe me, I don't mind being called to task when I'm wrong. Now, I have to admit, sometimes I don't always agree I'm wrong, but that's a course of a different holler. George Cobabe wrote: > There was no misunderstanding - most everyone knew that you had erred. I > was just impolite enough to p

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Be careful when you use Latinate terms: they are often more restrictive than LDS doctrines. This is the problem with the term omnipotence. It's understood in a mechanical way (that's one reason Latin is not a good language for religion; it was better for armies and bureaucrats) ;-) But that raises

[ZION] Microsoft interview questions

The funnest thing about interviewing at Microsoft are the famous (or infamous) "interview questions", of which you're likely to get at least one per interview. A classic example is: You have three closed barrels in front of you, one filled with black marbles, one filled with white marbles, and

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

There was no misunderstanding - most everyone knew that you had erred. I was just impolite enough to point it out. Therefore it is I that must beg forgiveness for my rudeness in pointing out error. I will try to be more polite in the future, when you make other mistakes regarding US history, int

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

Rick - you are not clear in your question. Could a rational man be otherwise than anti-Canadian or anti-American. You have a bit to lose if you are anti-American, but no one cares about the other. :-) George My son, Spencer, who was born in Calgary is asking me about this now. - Original Me

Re: [ZION] LOTR

I don't know. Tom, Mark? "John W. Redelfs" wrote: > Is it true that Howard Shore, the composer of the music for The Lord of the > Rings, is a Canadian? Regardless, my hat is off to him. The music is one > of the best things about the movie. Of course, that is just my humble > opinion. --JWR >

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Gepff!? I have no idea who that is - apparently he speaks Romanian too. Strange... Geoff >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/18/02 02:16PM >>> "Nici o problema" - as the Romanians are fond of saying. Gepff >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/18/02 01:53PM >>> Yeah, and I think I made it even worse when I was tr

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

>>> After intense thought, Marc favored us with: >This is also true, but it's a logical extension of the first, not >something that's said explicitly to be inspired. I know it's a nit, >but I think the Lord uses historical events, he doesn't "cause" >them, else we wouldn't have free will*. His p

Re: [ZION] The latest from Iraq

Are you saying that the following doesn't say the US saw it first? "The U.S. government has made copies of the Iraqi weapons declaration and distributed them to the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and other council members with expertise to assess the declaration for proliferat

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

"Nici o problema" - as the Romanians are fond of saying. Gepff >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/18/02 01:53PM >>> Yeah, and I think I made it even worse when I was trying to figure out how I got the two dates mixed up, and the only thing I was thinking of that could have made a neural short like that w

Re: [ZION] Tobacco interests lose a big one in Canada; LDS involvement

We don't have the same tradition of class action suits here like you do in the US. Tort reform is a hot topic in the US these days, too, as I recall -- one of the reasons was some particular damages that were awarded by juries in Mississippi (the Loewen case comes to mind). Perhaps Tom can comment

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

"John W. Redelfs" wrote: > Marc A. Schindler favored us with: > > > Obviously yes because we know from the Doctrine and Covenants that the > > > Founding Fathers of the United States were inspired men raised up by God to > > > rebel against Britain. > > > >It actually doesn't say this. See below

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

Yeah, and I think I made it even worse when I was trying to figure out how I got the two dates mixed up, and the only thing I was thinking of that could have made a neural short like that was de Tocqueville, but later I recalled that he made his famous tour *after* the Revolution. So, I guess it wa

Re: [ZION] New guy

"John W. Redelfs" wrote: > Stacy Smith favored us with: > >Well, I'd like to know just how many such lists there are. Judging from > >other lists on other subjects, there must be hundreds out there. > > For a while I was the Open Directory Project editor in charge of listing > the LDS email dis

Re: [ZION] No biological basis for race

After all, it doesn't say the elect (like, say, a tall, young good-looking bishop) *will* be deceived, it only says they *could* be. Mark Gregson wrote: > > > Hey, wait, that's my part! You'se guys can't be stealing my part ... > > > > > > Till who even got a new costume for the next show > >

[ZION] LOTR

Is it true that Howard Shore, the composer of the music for The Lord of the Rings, is a Canadian? Regardless, my hat is off to him. The music is one of the best things about the movie. Of course, that is just my humble opinion. --JWR //

Re: [ZION] New Main Street Plaza proposal

Many thanks for the first-hand account. The story of what happened on the easement, as reported on KSL is making the rounds of the Internet. Odd (well, maybe not) that it takes idiots like Kurt Van Gordon to "p*** in their own manger," as my uncle used to say . KVG was the instigator behind most of

RE: [ZION] New Main Street Plaza proposal

Day of Heckling on Plaza Thrusts Issues to Forefront The scene earlier today on the Main Street plaza included street preachers carrying placards and screaming their beliefs, sometimes through bullhorns. December 17, 2002 KSL News Specialist Carole Mikita reporting Salt Lake City Council ch

RE: [ZION] New Main Street Plaza proposal

The gathering at the city council meeting last night was a zoo. I got there about 6:00. The public comment session was supposed to begin at 7:00, but the crowd had already filled up two overflow rooms and was winding down the corridors, and there were already many hundreds of people waiting.

Re: [ZION] No biological basis for race

> Hey, wait, that's my part! You'se guys can't be stealing my part ... > > > Till who even got a new costume for the next show In the spirit of Christmas, Till, I forgive you for tempting me to the utmost with your provocative statements. That's a most humble forgiveness, too. ===

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

At 11:17 PM 12/17/2002 -0900, the BLT wrote: It is true that Marc, like many Canadians, is a tad anti-American. But believe me, there are a few here on the list that are pretty anti-Canadian too. But how could any rational man, having seen the brilliant documentary "Canadian Bacon" be otherwi

Re: [ZION] No biological basis for race

At 14:45 12/17/2002 -0700, M Marc & St Stephan wrote: to play the fool. > > Stephen "Play the fool" is not a scientific concept either ;-) Hey, wait, that's my part! You'se guys can't be stealing my part ... Till who even got a new costume for the next show ///

RE: [ZION] No biological basis for race

Stephen Beecroft favored us with: It's one thing to say that current racial classifications are imprecise, or getting blurred, or not useful for this or that purpose. All such proclamations may or may not be true. But to say that race doesn't exist is to be tautologically incorrect -- people whose

Re: [ZION] New guy

Rick Mathis favored us with: At 05:39 AM 12/17/2002 -0700, George wrote: Boy - you lost me there - are you asking about abilities (to argue) or the size of bullets (so as to end the argument)? Yes. I am in love with my Kalishnikov, 7.62x39mm. It is Chinese made and the sweetest weapon I've

Re: [ZION] New guy

Stacy Smith favored us with: Well, I'd like to know just how many such lists there are. Judging from other lists on other subjects, there must be hundreds out there. For a while I was the Open Directory Project editor in charge of listing the LDS email discussion lists. There are 274 listed a

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