[biofuel] efficiency issue
Now that I«ve attained my first objective: effectiveness, I«m moving into the efficiency field. At least, I«m trying. My first goal was to make BD, and now I«ve become more or less familiarized with the process, so I«m checking out ways in which to reduce costs (moneywise and environment wise). FINDINGS: You can use 96¼ Ethanol! WHY: Well, methanol is usually cheap, but unattainable at home. Ethanol instead can be produced from fermentation and fractional distillation. 96¼ EtOH is hard to get to at home (you need a good still), but there are others more experienced in that field on the group. I used 25% of 96¼ alcohol, and 75% of methanol to make up the ammount I needed to transesterify the WVO (i.e., 100 ml WVO, 50 ml EtOH 100 ml MeOH). The lye I added freely: I didn«t weigh it (I did this simply because I was testing and I sort of trained my eye to the 0,5 g I needed, but this is not recommended). The rest of the process was same as always. The result was one of the clearest batches of BD after the first setting stage. I figured that if 96¼ Ethanol was mixed in adecuate proportions with a more pure alcohol, as methanol (mine was near 98.8%), the final ammount of water would still be low. In my case: 96% x 0,25 + 98.8% x 0.75 = 98.1% From what I«ve gathered, less than 2% water usually works OK. If you can make your ethanol by fermenting free stuff like backyard grapes or something, then you could reduce the ammount of methanol required (the first is free, the latter you pay for). Anyhow, maybe the effort doesen«t pay off, but it«s worth a go. Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] water
Hi all. I ran some lab tests on my BD (from M. Pelly«s recipe), including IR spectrometry, Flash point, Pour point, Cloud point, Density, Viscosity, Residual Carbon and free water sediment. My findings showed quite a good BD, except for the water. ASTM requires 0,05 % vol max of water. I bubble washed my BD, following the Univ. of Idaho«s method, and it seems that my level of fre water whent up to a value of roughly 0.2% (4 times more than required by ASTM). I will further treat the BD with anhydrous CaCl2 (calcium chloride), though the lab technician also suggested I should use a saturated solution of sodium chloride (tablesalt... i.e., brine) to wash the BD. He said that this would reduce the presence of water in the washed BD. The point is: take care with the bubble washes and water washes in general. Maybe I was just unlucky, but you should try to check the content of water in your BD as the presence of it could be harmful to the motor. I«ve heard some people use pure methanol directly to get a BD pure enough to use without washing... (I don«t know how good this might be). My BD was very transparent. Even more crystaline than diesel fuel bought from my near by gas station. Comments welcome. Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] water
Dear Ken, I«m not quite sure if I can answer the first question. You should always use as little lye as necessary to neutralize FFA, plus a little extra to transesterify the WVO. And the Methanol is calculated by stoichiometry. But all this falls down in practice, «cause it«s an equilibrium reaction, and maybe the little extra lye will take ages to transesterify all the WVO, and maybe the exact ammount of methanol will impede completion of the reaction. I can say I«ve heard of people using pure methanol, and then using the BD straight after settling. The washing is used to get rid of varius impurities. I somewhere read that in the fresh BD, half of the methanol is in the BD phase and half of it in the glycerine. There«s also soaps and sodium ions (and other stuff), which all usually are carried away by the water. I still think the washing stage might be imperative. I just don«t quite understand how nobody has come up with this issue before. I mean, water could cause rusting and other problems in the motor, and everyone seems to have no trouble with this. Is it simply than noebody on the list (actually using their BD) has ever measured it«s water content? The ASTM standard set the limit at 500 ppm fore some reason! This is just some more thinking. I«m aware this does not quite answer your question, but I really don«t have a clue. I know as much as you do on this subject. Best wishes, Christian - Original Message - From: Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 6:04 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] water Christian, Is there a way to calculate how much catalyst would be needed for how much a reaction time. The reason for washing is to get rid of the catalyst in the newly reacted BD and lower the ph right? so if we can use lesser catalyst then washing might not be necessary. As for the excess methanol/ethanol, airing it for some time takes care of that. Regards, Ken At 12:05 AM 6/8/02 -0300, you wrote: Hi all. I ran some lab tests on my BD (from M. Pelly«s recipe), including IR spectrometry, Flash point, Pour point, Cloud point, Density, Viscosity, Residual Carbon and free water sediment. My findings showed quite a good BD, except for the water. ASTM requires 0,05 % vol max of water. I bubble washed my BD, following the Univ. of Idaho«s method, and it seems that my level of fre water whent up to a value of roughly 0.2% (4 times more than required by ASTM). I will further treat the BD with anhydrous CaCl2 (calcium chloride), though the lab technician also suggested I should use a saturated solution of sodium chloride (tablesalt... i.e., brine) to wash the BD. He said that this would reduce the presence of water in the washed BD. The point is: take care with the bubble washes and water washes in general. Maybe I was just unlucky, but you should try to check the content of water in your BD as the presence of it could be harmful to the motor. I«ve heard some people use pure methanol directly to get a BD pure enough to use without washing... (I don«t know how good this might be). My BD was very transparent. Even more crystaline than diesel fuel bought from my near by gas station. Comments welcome. Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] water
Hi Keith, I«m answering this letter separate from Ken«s answer. Regarding I'm really not sure at this stage whether that's good advice or not though., my intention is not to freak everyone out. I simply wouldn«t want anybody to ruin a 2,5lt Grand Cherokee motor by fooling around. Water, as you«ve mentioned, can bring some benefits in combustion, and often in chimeneys in industries (for example, when burning hydrocarbons) steam is injected into the flame area to produce a cleaner combustion. I don«t quite understand how, but it supposedly does. In a motor, excess water is said to be a probable cause of rust, and water-traps do exist in diesel engines for some reason. I«m not quite familiar wth the related problems, and I«ve found Camillo Holecek«s quote most interesting. I«ll try to dig into the subject a bit more. LAB RESULTS were as followed: Flash Point: Above 118¼C (ASTM PS121 specifies higher than 100¼C, so I didn«t go much further) Kinematic Viscosity @ 40¼C: 3.654 cSt Density: 0.8797 g/cm3 Corrosion: (heating to 100¼C over half an hour with inmersed metal strips) Aluminum Strip: Slight change in opacity, barely noticeable. Copper strip: No observed change Tin strip: No observed change Iron strip: No observed change Cloud Point: 9¼C to 10¼C Pour Point: -4.7¼C Carbon Residue: 0.0711% (ASTM D189) Water Sediment: 1000-2000 ppm IR Spectrometry: I sent it in attached to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Best wishes, Christian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] water Hi Christian Well, it's interesting. Do those maximums for water content in the standards make any sense? Will water in the fuel damage the engine? First, this is what Camillo Holecek said about it recently: The Austrian Standard ONORM C 1191 said only: No water should settle out (i.e. about 1200ppm water would stay in solution in our FAME.) All others bother about 500 and even 300 ppm (DIN), which is nonsense IMO, as FAME is hygroscopic and will attract humidity from air until it is back to 1200ppm. Means, in your car you will have anything but 300ppm. (FAME being Fatty Acid Methyl Esters, ie biodiesel.) Meanwhile quite a lot of people are trying to figure ways of getting MORE water into the fuel. See this, for instance: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=835list=BIOFUELS-BIZ Also this: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/emulsion/emulbibl.pdf And this: http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/reference/refer.html There seem to be combustion efficiency gains (with misters into the air intake) and emissions reductions (with fuel emulsions), but I can't figure which is better and why you wouldn't get both effects either way. What's the difference between a water mist injected with the air vs water in the fuel that gets misted anyway when it's injected with the rest of the fuel? Anway, until we settle it one way or the other, if ever, maybe don't worry too much about a little excess water. I'm really not sure at this stage whether that's good advice or not though. What d you think? Christian, what were your lab results, if you don't mind telling us? Regards Keith Hi all. I ran some lab tests on my BD (from M. Pelly«s recipe), including IR spectrometry, Flash point, Pour point, Cloud point, Density, Viscosity, Residual Carbon and free water sediment. My findings showed quite a good BD, except for the water. ASTM requires 0,05 % vol max of water. I bubble washed my BD, following the Univ. of Idaho«s method, and it seems that my level of fre water whent up to a value of roughly 0.2% (4 times more than required by ASTM). I will further treat the BD with anhydrous CaCl2 (calcium chloride), though the lab technician also suggested I should use a saturated solution of sodium chloride (tablesalt... i.e., brine) to wash the BD. He said that this would reduce the presence of water in the washed BD. The point is: take care with the bubble washes and water washes in general. Maybe I was just unlucky, but you should try to check the content of water in your BD as the presence of it could be harmful to the motor. I«ve heard some people use pure methanol directly to get a BD pure enough to use without washing... (I don«t know how good this might be). My BD was very transparent. Even more crystaline than diesel fuel bought from my near by gas station. Comments welcome. Regards, Christian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es
Re: [biofuel] water (Keith)
Dear Keith, I«d find it very interesting (so as to update my thesis), to get the specifications of ASTM«s new D6751. Please let me know if you have them, and if so, please pass them on. They«d really come in handy. Best wishes, Christian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] water Hi Christian Hi Keith, I«m answering this letter separate from Ken«s answer. Regarding I'm really not sure at this stage whether that's good advice or not though., my intention is not to freak everyone out. Oh, I meant my advice might not be good, not yours. I simply wouldn«t want anybody to ruin a 2,5lt Grand Cherokee motor by fooling around. No, nor any motor. Water, as you«ve mentioned, can bring some benefits in combustion, and often in chimeneys in industries (for example, when burning hydrocarbons) steam is injected into the flame area to produce a cleaner combustion. I don«t quite understand how, but it supposedly does. In a motor, excess water is said to be a probable cause of rust, and water-traps do exist in diesel engines for some reason. Free water in dinodiesel is one thing, an emulsified water-dino blend seems to be another, and dissolved water in biod should be more like the blend (with its advantages). At least I think so. More in my other message on this. I«m not quite familiar wth the related problems, and I«ve found Camillo Holecek«s quote most interesting. I«ll try to dig into the subject a bit more. Why not ask Camillo? He's head of Energea in Austria. Here's his address: Camillo Holecek [EMAIL PROTECTED] LAB RESULTS were as followed: Flash Point: Above 118¼C (ASTM PS121 specifies higher than 100¼C, so I didn«t go much further) The new ASTM D-6751 standard specifies 130 deg C, I don't know why. Germany and Czech specify 110, all others 100. Maybe it's all just politics, the rapeseed vs soy game. Kinematic Viscosity @ 40¼C: 3.654 cSt Density: 0.8797 g/cm3 Corrosion: (heating to 100¼C over half an hour with inmersed metal strips) Aluminum Strip: Slight change in opacity, barely noticeable. Copper strip: No observed change Tin strip: No observed change Iron strip: No observed change Cloud Point: 9¼C to 10¼C Pour Point: -4.7¼C Carbon Residue: 0.0711% (ASTM D189) Water Sediment: 1000-2000 ppm Cloud point and pour point a bit high, everything else is just fine. And the water probably fits in with what Camillo says. Well done Christian. It's great we can make good fuel like this eh? No need to be Exxon-Mobil! IR Spectrometry: I sent it in attached to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thankyou, received. All best Keith Best wishes, Christian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] water Hi Christian Well, it's interesting. Do those maximums for water content in the standards make any sense? Will water in the fuel damage the engine? First, this is what Camillo Holecek said about it recently: The Austrian Standard ONORM C 1191 said only: No water should settle out (i.e. about 1200ppm water would stay in solution in our FAME.) All others bother about 500 and even 300 ppm (DIN), which is nonsense IMO, as FAME is hygroscopic and will attract humidity from air until it is back to 1200ppm. Means, in your car you will have anything but 300ppm. (FAME being Fatty Acid Methyl Esters, ie biodiesel.) Meanwhile quite a lot of people are trying to figure ways of getting MORE water into the fuel. See this, for instance: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=835list=BIOFUELS-BIZ Also this: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/emulsion/emulbibl.pdf And this: http://www.aquamist.co.uk/dc/reference/refer.html There seem to be combustion efficiency gains (with misters into the air intake) and emissions reductions (with fuel emulsions), but I can't figure which is better and why you wouldn't get both effects either way. What's the difference between a water mist injected with the air vs water in the fuel that gets misted anyway when it's injected with the rest of the fuel? Anway, until we settle it one way or the other, if ever, maybe don't worry too much about a little excess water. I'm really not sure at this stage whether that's good advice or not though. What d you think? Christian, what were your lab results, if you don't mind telling us? Regards Keith Hi all. I ran some lab tests on my BD (from M. Pelly«s recipe), including IR spectrometry, Flash point, Pour point, Cloud point, Density, Viscosity, Residual Carbon and free water sediment. My findings showed quite a good BD, except for the water. ASTM requires 0,05 % vol max of water. I
Re: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith)
Todd, I«ve just asked Keith, but I just as well might ask you. Could you send me the BD specs as per ASTM D6751? I«m still working with PS121 (which I have), but it seems some values have been revised. Thanks, Christian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:54 PM Subject: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith) Flash Point: Above 118¼C (ASTM PS121 specifies higher than 100¼C, so I didn«t go much further) The new ASTM D-6751 standard specifies 130 deg C, I don't know why. Germany and Czech specify 110, all others 100. Maybe it's all just politics, the rapeseed vs soy game. Christian and Keith, As per ASTM D-6751, paragraph X1.21: The flash point for biodiesel is used as the mechanism to limit the level of unreacted alcohol remaining in the finished fuel. As per ASTM D-6751, paragraph X1.22: The flash point specification for biodiesel is also of importance in connection with legal requirements and safety precautions involved in fuel handling and storage, and is normally specified to meet insurance and fire regulations. Paragraph X1.23 discusses wide variability with the accepted test method. This resulted in 130*C being chosen to insure that a low end flash point of 100*C is never compromised. Improvements to testing are being evaluated, which could result in a revised standard at some point in the future. Todd Swearingen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: (Todd)
Thanks Todd. I assume all other values the same as PS121? i.e., Sulfur, copper stri corrosion, cloud point, carbon residue, carbon residue (Ramsbottom), Acid nmber Free glycerin. One question: I tested my carbon residue (closed cup) and it added up to 0,0711% (as opposed to 0,05 specified by ASTM). How critical is this, and where does this residue come from? Thanks again, Christian - Original Message - To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 2:21 PM X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Yahoo-Profile: appalenergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list biofuel@yahoogroups.com; contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: mailing list biofuel@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 13:18:07 -0400 Subject: Re: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith) Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Christian, Here are the specs. Flash point (closed cup): 130*C minimum (150*C average) Water and sediment: 0.050 % by volume, maximum Kinematic viscosity at 40*C: 1.9 - 6.0 mm2/s Sulfated ash: 0.020 % by mass, maximum Sulfur: 0.05 % by mass, maximum Cetane: 47 minimum Carbon residue: 0.050 % by mass, maximum Total glycerine (free glycerine and unconverted glycerides combined): 0.240 % by mass, maximum Phosphorous content: 0.001 % by mass, maximum - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:04 PM Subject: Re: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith) Todd, I«ve just asked Keith, but I just as well might ask you. Could you send me the BD specs as per ASTM D6751? I«m still working with PS121 (which I have), but it seems some values have been revised. Thanks, Christian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:54 PM Subject: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith) Flash Point: Above 118¼C (ASTM PS121 specifies higher than 100¼C, so I didn«t go much further) The new ASTM D-6751 standard specifies 130 deg C, I don't know why. Germany and Czech specify 110, all others 100. Maybe it's all just politics, the rapeseed vs soy game. Christian and Keith, As per ASTM D-6751, paragraph X1.21: The flash point for biodiesel is used as the mechanism to limit the level of unreacted alcohol remaining in the finished fuel. As per ASTM D-6751, paragraph X1.22: The flash point specification for biodiesel is also of importance in connection with legal requirements and safety precautions involved in fuel handling and storage, and is normally specified to meet insurance and fire regulations. Paragraph X1.23 discusses wide variability with the accepted test method. This resulted in 130*C being chosen to insure that a low end flash point of 100*C is never compromised. Improvements to testing are being evaluated, which could result in a revised standard at some point in the future. Todd Swearingen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _ _ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http
Re: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith)
Do you know the year in which ASTM D5761 was issued? Thx Chistian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:54 PM Subject: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith) Flash Point: Above 118¼C (ASTM PS121 specifies higher than 100¼C, so I didn«t go much further) The new ASTM D-6751 standard specifies 130 deg C, I don't know why. Germany and Czech specify 110, all others 100. Maybe it's all just politics, the rapeseed vs soy game. Christian and Keith, As per ASTM D-6751, paragraph X1.21: The flash point for biodiesel is used as the mechanism to limit the level of unreacted alcohol remaining in the finished fuel. As per ASTM D-6751, paragraph X1.22: The flash point specification for biodiesel is also of importance in connection with legal requirements and safety precautions involved in fuel handling and storage, and is normally specified to meet insurance and fire regulations. Paragraph X1.23 discusses wide variability with the accepted test method. This resulted in 130*C being chosen to insure that a low end flash point of 100*C is never compromised. Improvements to testing are being evaluated, which could result in a revised standard at some point in the future. Todd Swearingen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] How to make calcium chloride?
Something in the corner of MY mind, where my little bit of chem-knoledge resides, tells me that CaO is not the best stuff to dry esters. Yes: CaO and HCl will produce water and CaCl2, but in a hydrated form. Probably you could dehydrate the salt (after filtering and evaporating water), by calcination, but this is an area I don«t know much of, and at high temperatures (I«m talking of a closed crucible over direct fire) I don«t know if the substance would decompose in some way. Someone mentioned to me the other day (I think I recall having mntioned this on a post some days ago) that CaCl could interfere with traces of methanol surely present in the BD. I«m still working on the water issue, as I«ve personally got some problems here, with water contents of up to 2000 ppm (0,2 % vol) in my BD. A simple solution seems to be to filter through very dry filter paper. Dry paper should absorb water quite well (in my case, it worked well with emulsified water in the final washing stage, removing the water content that impeded the BD from being totally tranparent). It could work for dissolved water too. Regards, Christian. - Original Message - From: Gobert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] How to make calcium chloride? - Original Message - From: agroefekta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 7:56 PM Subject: [biofuel] How to make calcium chloride? I have read some time before that CaCl2 can be used to dry alcohols as well as esters. I am not good in chemistry, but believe that reaction of CaO and HCl can produce CaCl 2. Im my country there are many manufacturers of Cao, so I could make it quite easy. One more question. Can this salt be recovered after it has been used for dehidration? agroefekta, Calcium chloride for chemical drying is usually used in the form of fused pellets. Could take quite a bit of energy to get it to that state. CaO is a very good drying agent, It could be used by itself to dry alcohols but the reaction might be a bit vigorous, would suggest try it in small ammounts with caution. Something in the back of my mind where my limited chemical knowledge resides tells me that it may not be such a good idea from the safety point of view. Regards, Paul Gobert. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release Date: 5/06/02 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Deo18C/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] gas filter (urgent question... I«ve got little time)
Hey everyone... I«m trying out my BD today, but I«m still one prefilter short. Does anyone know if an ordinary gasoline in line filter fill be OK (gasoline diesel have different viscosities molecule size, so I don«t know if this might represent some trouble). A combined water trap filter for diesel costs way too much, and anyway the car I«m planning to try the BD on has its own diesel filter. Is there anyone who thinks unsing the gasoline filter as a diesel prefilter will bring any problems? Thanks, (Please, I need an urgent answer... I«m leaving in 3 hours) Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] gas filter (urgent question... I«ve got little time)
Right. Anyhow, I think I«ll be bypassing the tank. I.e., directly plugging the hose that goes to the filter and pump into a HDPE container. Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] gas filter (urgent question... I«ve got little time) If he's never used BD before, it's solvent abilities may very well clean the gook out of his tank and lines. He does not want to clog his diesel filter with that, so a clear inline cheapo filter can be the visual sacrificial lamb. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] gas filter (urgent question... I«ve got little time) Christian, Personally, I'd just use the existing filter system. I am presuming that you're filtering the fuel through at minimum a coffee filter before placing it in the tank or resevoir. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 11:05 AM Subject: [biofuel] gas filter (urgent question... I«ve got little time) Hey everyone... I«m trying out my BD today, but I«m still one prefilter short. Does anyone know if an ordinary gasoline in line filter fill be OK (gasoline diesel have different viscosities molecule size, so I don«t know if this might represent some trouble). A combined water trap filter for diesel costs way too much, and anyway the car I«m planning to try the BD on has its own diesel filter. Is there anyone who thinks unsing the gasoline filter as a diesel prefilter will bring any problems? Thanks, (Please, I need an urgent answer... I«m leaving in 3 hours) Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] gas filter (urgent question... I«ve got little time)
Yes... twice. But I«ve noticed 2 (two) specs floating about. Should I refilter for the third time? Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] gas filter (urgent question... I«ve got little time) Christian, Personally, I'd just use the existing filter system. I am presuming that you're filtering the fuel through at minimum a coffee filter before placing it in the tank or resevoir. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 11:05 AM Subject: [biofuel] gas filter (urgent question... I«ve got little time) Hey everyone... I«m trying out my BD today, but I«m still one prefilter short. Does anyone know if an ordinary gasoline in line filter fill be OK (gasoline diesel have different viscosities molecule size, so I don«t know if this might represent some trouble). A combined water trap filter for diesel costs way too much, and anyway the car I«m planning to try the BD on has its own diesel filter. Is there anyone who thinks unsing the gasoline filter as a diesel prefilter will bring any problems? Thanks, (Please, I need an urgent answer... I«m leaving in 3 hours) Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] IT WORKS!!!
I tried my BD on a direct injection diesel 504 Peugeot pickup. We bypassed the fuel line from the tank into a HDPE container. After two initial chokes (while the remaining fuel in the filter was changing, and maybe a bubble or two of air)... the engine started running smoothly. We measured gases with an opacity measurer (I think it«s scale is congruent with Bacharach scale). BTW, thanks to Todd and Steve for their Urgent replies yesterday. In the end, I did not use a prefilter (we where one hose connector short, so we didn«t want excessive cuts in the fuel line). Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] No more French fry WVO?
I received some ordinary post mail from Mr. Hendrik Stein G. Knothe concerning various emission tests by Prof. Krahl in Germany. They reported traceo of acrolein and aldehides in emissions. The issue of acrolein was somewhat treated (in part by me) some weeks ago. Best wishes, Christian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] No more French fry WVO? http://enn.com/news/wire-stories/2002/06/06252002/ap_47645.asp - 6/25/2002 WHO hosts urgent meeting on acrylamide in food Permit me to carry the thought process a wee tad further for us common laypersons. Anyone ever given much thought to the decay product of glycerin under conditions of inadequate combustion? Oddly enough it's call acrolein - rather toxic to living things, especially breathing things, at least according to every MSDS sheet I've read. So take that decay consideration, slap a bunch of potato shreds in a high temp tri-glyceride bath, or bake a grain product with a high oil content, and what might you think you'll get? Perhaps acrilomide? Glycerin, in the form of triglycerides, exposed to semi-high temps of frying and baking...~350* Fahrenheit. But then there is this statement: The Swedish researchers said that fried, oven-baked, and deep-fried potato and cereal products may contain high levels of acrylamide. The same results were not found in boiled products. A bit odd that water boils at 212* Fahrenheit, ~140* lower and a considerably less destructive temp range than baking or frying. Makes one wonder if there won't be a rush in the appliance and food processing markets for products that can cook foods in the temperature range of boiling, rather than frying and baking. Also makes one wonder if there won't be a rush for oils that are 100% FFAs, rather than a blend of tri-glycerides and FFAs. That would sure throw a kink in biodiesel manufacture when using waste restaurant oils. It would force every shadetree biodieseler to move towards high pressure esterification, rather than STP transesterification. It would also put some pressure on the animal feed and rendering industries to move away from using reprocessed WVOs as protein/energy additives to feed. Would be a shame to kill the AKC registered family pet simply by feeding it Puppy Chow. Todd Swearingen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/3PCXaC/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Now that you mention Knothe
Keith: Yep... they«re from the ASAE. Yep. The sent me the whole stuff (I think... it«s rather long and most interesting... still haven«t gone through all of it. They seem like various reports) The authors work: Krahl J., Baum K., U. Hackbarth H., Jeberien E., Munack A., Schtt C., Schrder O., Walter N., Bnger J., Mller M. M., Weigel A. - Gaseous Compounds, Ozone Precursors, Particle Number and Particle Size Distributions, and Mutagenic Effects Due to Biodiesel - 2001 - ASAE, Vol 44(2): 179-191 (The publications sent to me where different works on the same topic: emissions ant mutagenesis, and each one is written by combinations of the names listed above) Your conspiracy theory might be right. Krahl«s RME showed 760 ppm while their SME showed 1760 ppm (I think those were the values). Evidently RME holds less water than SME. And we all know Europe favours the first and USA favours the latter. Who knows. Anyway I see it practically impossible to vacuum seal (or at least dry seal) our home made BD production... and my sunflowerME (over 1000 ppm water) worked OK. A former teacher of mine is currently studying water injection IN DIESEL ENGINES with very good results (at the Universidad Tecnolgica Nacional, which readily favours research... as opposed to my Univ.). I«ve been trying to contact him but I can never find him. He«s a mechanical engineer (who tought me thermodynamics and fluid mechanics a couple of years ago). «t could be interesting to find out what he knows. Best wishes, Christian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Now that you mention Knothe Hi Christian Dear Keith, I was also wondering: In the papers the guys from Germany sent me (the guys, with all due respect), they showed walues of dissolved water for SME of about 1250 ppm. My own sunflowerME resulted (as previously discussed) in something between 1000 and 2000 ppm. Knothe's an American, by the way, he works for ARS. But I guess you know that. Did they send you a full copy of the Bunger, Krahl report? WHY ON EARTH does DIN specify 300 ppm and why does ASTM specify 500 ppm max if it seems BIODIESEL WILL SUCK UP WATER (either atmospheric or form the washing stages) to reach a water saturation content COMFORTABLY ABOVE the ammount specified by ASTM DIN??? Maybe it's a protection racket. As discussed previously, the Euro standards seem to deliberately favour rapeseed biodiesel and exclude soy biodiesel, for no good reason other than keeping the US out of the market. If you recall, it was Camillo Holecek of Energea in Austria who told us about these water standards and said they were all nonsense, that it would pick up 1200 ppm anyway. Actually he said they were producing biodiesel with only 50 ppm. He also said it wouldn't be that way anymore by the time it got into a car's tank. But it's easily arranged for it to still be 50 ppm on arrival at a quality testing lab. On the other hand, that might not be so easily arranged for a backyarder or a small-scale operation. I guess you could get it down with heat treatment though - cheat, in other words. Maybe I just don't trust the big guys. Well, anybody who still does hasn't been paying a lot of attention lately. But could be I'm seeing plots where there aren't any. Maybe the standards are just stupid. Regards Keith Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] No more French fry WVO? I received some ordinary post mail from Mr. Hendrik Stein G. Knothe concerning various emission tests by Prof. Krahl in Germany. They reported traceo of acrolein and aldehides in emissions. The issue of acrolein was somewhat treated (in part by me) some weeks ago. Best wishes, Christian That's this one, below, Bunger, Krahl et al. I know that Gerhard Knothe cites these results, and there's been some controversy about that. The other person who cited Bunger, Krahl et al was a certain Associate Professor Jim Olsson of the Department of Physical Chemistry at Chalmers University of Technology in Gothenburg, Sweden. You can find out more about that in the Files section at the list website, in a folder marked Swedish_biodiesel_study - Junk science: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/files/Swedish_biodiesel_study/ A.k.a. the :frying pan study. Rapeseed oil and biodiesel used as a green alternative to conventional vehicle fuels can produce 10 times more cancer-causing emissions and pollutants than diesel. These findings were reported by Reuters. Olsson's flame reactor burned the test samples at only 550 deg C (1022 deg F) at normal atmospheric pressure, whereas a diesel engine burns the fuel at up to 2000 deg C (3632 deg F
[biofuel] In case you«re interested in my opacimeter results
The results from my first BD tests (with an opacimeter) were performed on an Indenor xd2 engine (a Peugeot 504 pickup) (4 cyl, 2500 cc), Bosch injector pump and direct injection over the cylinder. The analyzer was a Maha mdo2-kienzle opacimeter (measures how translucent tha smoke is by mesuring light transmission through it). It reads the absorption coefficient k (units: 1/m). The result was k=5.6/m for dino diesel and k=1.71/m for biodiesel. Some of our laws in Argentina state a maximum of around 2,52 (if memory does not fail me). The test is performed by accelerating full throttle to clean the carbon residue in the exhaust system, and then accelerating to obtain consistent peaks, which constitute the value to be read. BTW, the scale is not linear, so I can«t say there«s an XX% reduction of emissions by dividing the two obtained values. I have to get an L constant (which is the length through which the light is forced to pass... through the smoke) to convert k into a linear scale, and I still don«t know this L value. But the values so far at least tell me that THAT particular pickup would not have passed a municipal test running on diesel, but would have comfortably passed it if running on my BD. Steve: regarding the Was there any doubt? question... well, there«s always a quota of fear when the engine that might get goofed up is not yours. Of course, in that case you«re assuming the motor could get goofed up with biodiesel. Then again, it was my home made first batch. I still can«t believe how long t took me to find someone who would be willing to lend his car in the name of science. That«s all for now. Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] salty water (Todd)
Todd, Just as predicted: The mono-, di- triglycerids made another yucky emulsion after washing the crystal clear settled biodiesel. Just to confirm once again the disadvantages of including water in the reaction. I thought water only caused soaps. Putting pieces together, now it«s clear that water also prevent the completion of the reaction (forming soaps consumes sodium necessary for the transesterification) Christian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] salty water Christian, Yup. I'm sure. Been that. Done there... in a 350 gallon batch no less. Ten gallons of what couldn't be salted out and didn't break on its own over time are still sitting in a jug one year later. If you get as high a volume of emulsion as you stated, it's an incomplete reaction and the presence of mono- and di-glycerides that caused the enormity of it, not the soap, as most of the soap drops with the glycerin. Try this for starters. Take the fluid whose emulsion was broken with the salting out and submit it to another wash. It's a safe bet that it will emulsify radically all over again. (You might also set aside a bit and submit it to a second transeserification to see how much glycerin drops out.) If you decant the fluid off the top that didn't emulsify and submit it to another wash, that might be a fair indicator as to how much of your incomplete reaction (mono- and di-glycerides) went into the emulsified layer, but would depend greatly upon the level of agitation during the initial wash. The decanted layer might emulsify every bit as severely as the original washed batch. I haven't seen any charts that can predict how heavy an emulsion will occur in the presence of x mono- or di-glycerides. But I'm sure there are some rules of thumb. A quick look at the back of a mayonaise jar or many other food products lends one to believe that it takes very little to achieve an extensive result. A few percent could be all it takes. That same few percent wouldn't even be noticeable in a test for viscosity using anything but the most advanced and electronically calibrated equipment. A good number of persons would argue over this, but I'd say pack the viscometer up in it's case and rely upon your wash characteristics as indicators of a complete reaction, in absence of a GC and or in a backyard environment. One other thing, relative to the quality of the salted out fluid. I used to point out to our chemist that Hell...diesel engines will run on straight veg oil! whenever he pointed out that we were still none too sure about the quality of our fuel. Then I tried running some of the salted out batch mentioned above. Sputter...sputtergasp!!hiss..! wheeze... Pure murder for the first 3 minutes on a cold start at 50*F. When the fuel was exhausted it was replaced with biodiesel from a less troublesome batch. The car turned around and slapped a big wet one on us in thanks for treating it better. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] salty water Dear Todd, Is that so? The mini batch I experimented on seemed to show a good conversion. Of course I did not run it through a gas chromatograph, but the BD seemed OK (not emulsified or mixed with oils and mono- di- glycerids). The mixture of EtOH and MeOH I used resulted in 98% alcohol, and I suppose 2% water is just in the limit of acceptance for a transesterification reaction (don«t know... I assume this out of experience). Anyhow, the ammount of water I had was too much and everything emulsified in a thick white foam. But the NaCl and a light rewash with the salty water reduced everything from the former 20% BD, 70% foam, 10% water to a 50% BD, 5% foam, 45% water... or something like that. and the BD is now settling its turbidity and taking the typical transparent pale golden colour. Viscosity seems OK (inidcating absence of glycerides?) Are you sure it«s such an incomplete reaction? Thanks again for your help, Christian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] salty water Christian, I believe the emulsion breaking process you are referring to is called salting out in chemistry vernacular. Unfortunately, it's not biodiesel that you are salting out. Rather, it's mono- and di-glycerides from an incomplete reaction. Anytime that you have that much of an emulsion problem, you can't bet your burrow and its saddle that's the problem. If you take the salted-out, recovered fuel and run it through the transesterification process again, you will find that a good bit more glycerin drops out. You will also find
[biofuel] what about tap water
Hi all. Can anybody tell me: Can the washing stages use ordinary tap water or do they necessarily require distilled water? I might try to run a recycling program for used oil in the city. Many restaurants sell it at around 15 cents/lt (probably reused as second quelity oil for cheap chinese restaurants and other places), but distilled water increases costs deamatically if I am to make batches of up to 200 liters and plan to use the bubble wash method. Does free chlorine in the water bring any problems? Buying the used oil already makes things expensive, and the pretended volumes of WVO aren«t big enough to reach wholesale prices for methanol (Retail methanol costs about 2.5 pesos/lt... imagine it were equivalent to 2.5 dollars/lt, which it is not.. but as salaries and cost of living have not changed since the 1peso = 1 dollar times last year, you can assume no devaluation just to picture the price in terms of % of a salary. If I had saved dollars, that would roughly be 60 cents of a dollar per liter). To consider myself in business, at least for small scale production (the intention is to sell the BD... cheaper than dino diesel of course), I need to be very careful with costs, and that includes my source of water. Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] tap water?
Hi all. Can anybody tell me: Can the washing stages use ordinary tap water or do they necessarily require distilled water? I might try to run a recycling program for used oil in the city. Many restaurants sell it at around 15 cents/lt (probably reused as second quelity oil for cheap chinese restaurants and other places), but distilled water increases costs deamatically if I am to make batches of up to 200 liters and plan to use the bubble wash method. Does free chlorine in the water bring any problems? Buying the used oil already makes things expensive, and the pretended volumes of WVO aren«t big enough to reach wholesale prices for methanol (Retail methanol costs about 2.5 pesos/lt... imagine it were equivalent to 2.5 dollars/lt, which it is not.. but as salaries and cost of living have not changed since the 1peso = 1 dollar times last year, you can assume no devaluation just to picture the price in terms of % of a salary. If I had saved dollars, that would roughly be 60 cents of a dollar per liter). To consider myself in business, at least for small scale production (the intention is to sell the BD... cheaper than dino diesel of course), I need to be very careful with costs, and that includes my source of water. Regards, Christian __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] tap water?
Thanks. That«s good news. Christian - Original Message - From: Aleksander Gontarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 3:41 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] tap water? Hi Christian! I didn't make much biodiesel yet, but I'm a chemist and I can tell you that tap water is perfect (in relation quality - expenses) for washing biodiesel. We are talking here about sub - massive production (not for laboratory scale) so distilled water is unnecesary expense. Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pp91HA/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: tap water? methanol use
Nope. The scale is so small that the only way to reuse chemicals would be to pretreat the WVO with the leftover glycrine+meth. But I still can«t separate methanol at small scale. Furthemore, I can«t distill glycerin to sell it (that represents a good income) because at the scale I«m talking of (330 lt/week) I can«t afford a vacuum distiller, evaporators or what have you. regards, Christian - Original Message - From: coachgeo3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 11:26 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: tap water? methanol use --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. SNIP Buying the used oil already makes things expensive, and the pretended volumes of WVO aren«t big enough to reach wholesale prices for methanol (Retail methanol costs about 2.5 pesos/lt... imagine it were equivalent to 2.5 dollars/lt, which it is not.. SNIP If I had saved dollars, that would roughly be 60 cents of a dollar per liter). To consider myself in business, at least for small scale production (the intention is to sell the BD... cheaper than dino diesel of course), I need to be very careful with costs, and that includes my source of water. Regards, Christian Christian does this cost calculation include reuse of the collectable methanol? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pp91HA/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: tap water?
Yes. The idea was to leave empty 10 or 20 lt HDPE plastic containers and pick them up every week or so, or whenever the guys called. It«s still quite in the air (the project)... but that was the rough idea. Ideally, we«d pick up the containers in a bio-fueled pick up or something. Christian - Original Message - From: Aleksander Gontarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 7:27 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: tap water? Dear Christian, Can you tell me how do you want to plan to pick up used oil from the restaurants? Will you, for example, leave there your containers and give them your phone number or else? Maybe it's a silly question, but I want to rus something simmilar in my town (in the future) so I want to know how to do it for the best results. Thanks for all the informations! Greetings, Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pp91HA/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration,
and after some minutes it turned back to transparent. But after some more additions, it whent pink and then returned not to transparent, but to a very light pink. This was past the correct titration ammount, so I had to redo the experiment and take the readings for the back to transparent volume of base. 3. When doing the reaction I thought to add the S.M. and methanol already early when the T is still quite low while heating the reactor tank, rather than adding it only if the reaction heat is reached. That consideration just to save energy and time. However, when the ratio of saponification rate to the transesterification at lower T is higher than at higher T it should not be done to avoid too much soap formation. Could you give a short statement? Assuming you have used anhydrous methanol and dry oil, saponification will occur due to the presence of NaOH and the water from the S.M. formation, making the glycerides exchange their ast H for a Na (I know that«s not what you asked). Now anhydrous S.M. would reduce soap formation. Anyhow, I know people who have considered performing the reaction at room temp for a longer period. I always thought that the equilibrium reaction would take forever at that temp. However, this guy is a Chemical engineer, and I he argued the reaction could be performed at room temp with good yields. I don«t know if he somehow separated unracted oils and centrifuged the S.M. to add it again in the mixture, thus retrieveing BD as it formed (and pushing the reaction towards products side). However I do not know the saponification transesterification rates at different temperatures. One personal question, if I might: I was looking for a funded PhD in the renewable energies field. I am a recenly graduated environmental engineer, and an EEC member (French passport). Do you know if the MSc for Renewable Energy Systems Technology at Crest (Loughborough, UK.) is funded for EEC members? Could you help me finding out the entry requirements, maybe a course program or at least the email of someone in charge of the addmitance for environmental MSc PH.D.s? I«d really appreciate that. Best wishes, Christian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration,
Thanks. I will contact her. - Original Message - From: Andreas Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:11 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration, Dear Christian, well first of all thank you very much for all the information, really good. To the Crest contact: The person in charge for further questions is :Allison White: [EMAIL PROTECTED] she is able to answer your questions about formal matters. Also a look onto the website might help: http://www.lboro.ac.uk/crest/MSC/index.htm As I know is there no possibility to get it funded, otherwise I would have tried it, but try it your own, it is perhaps worth. So far. Much lick and the best. Regards, Andreas. -Original Message- From: William Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 July 2002 01:13 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration, Her is a link for MSDS on anhydrous S.M.. http://www.alkalimetals.com/MSDS/SODIUM%20METHOXIDE%20MSDS.htm Does anyone know anything about this substance? Bill C. - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] (anhydrous) S.M. and glycerol protonisation, titration, Hi Andreas. I doubt I«ll be able t answer all your questions but I«ll see if I can help a bit. My name is Andreas Jansen, student for Environmental Management in The Netherlands, however since a year taking part at the MSc for Renewable Energy Systems Technology at Crest in Loughborough, UK. My dissertation started 4 weeks ago and is about the topic biodiesel. Therefore I have to optimise a small-scale prototype installation running on used cooking oil for a company, which is just three years in business, not having much experience yet, which makes the work and support for me sometimes rather difficult. For this I read lot of abstracts, however my chemical background is not so very strong, still for some understanding sufficient. However there are some topics where I struggle with and cannot find an answer to: 1. When considering Sodium Hydroxide as catalyst for alkaline based transesterification I wonder about the following things: A reaction mechanism tells me, that the methanol and sodium hydroxide form S.M. and water. S.M. catalyses the transesterification and at the end the H+-ion from the previous formed water is deprotonated by the diglyceride-ion (or later mono-glyceride- or even later glycerol- ion) to form a fully alcohol group and finally glycerol. My concern is whether this combination of H+-ion and (di)glyceride-ion is necessary to occur or whether in the glycerol-layer after separation also (di)glyceride-ions may be found if not all (di)glyceride-ions have had combined with the H+-ions from the water? A catalyst should be found back at the end (if not saponified), that is what a catalyst defines, or? Therefore only glycerol but no (di)glyceride-ions should be found? Furthermore, if now assumed that anhydrous S.M. powder as catalyst is used, would that (under the assumption that H+-ions must react with a (di)glyceride-ions to form the glycerol) mean, that water must be deprotonated and if water is initially present in the oil this water would be removed, thus lowering the saponification reaction between f.f.a., water and Na+-ions?? That would be quite a benefit to consider buying S.M. powder instead of producing S.M. self by mixing Me-OH and NaOH! I was unaware of the fact you could buy dehydrated S.M. This would be a great improvement, as it would reduce the ammount of water in the transesterification. The term catalyst must be carefully used here. From what I recover, the catalyst will be somewhat consumed hence disrupting its own definition. Even more complex solid catalysts used in complex industries (as pharmaceutical), often patented salts like Titanium tetraalcoxides and so, will probably serve for 20 or so reactions. The end product may always have rmains of mono- di- glycerides, as 100% efficiency is not possible. 2. When doing previous the reaction a titration to determine the degree of f.f.a. I take 1 ml oil and dissolve it in 10 ml iso- propanol. pH meter and litmus-pH-paper give different results during titration and the indicator (phenolphthalein) is not behaving like expected. It first tends only very, very light purple but remains like this, only if ~0,5 ml more NaOH solution is added (than at a pH of 10) it is turning totally purple. I thought a indicator colours or does not but the very light purple colour which stays and does not disappears after stirring more confuses me a lot? Concerning
[biofuel] Personal matter/opinion
Hi all. I honestly apologize in advance for using this group for a personal question, but I consider all members as friends, and am in desperate need of advice. (Sorry Keith...hope you understand) I«ve received a job proposal for a firm in Virginia, USA, which I must answer by tomorrow, and would like to know out of American members« experience how much the cost of living would roughly be there (per month... rent, food, some leisure, savings) to know if the proposal is reasonable or not. I«m 24 years old and single. Thanks to all in advance for your help. Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/it_ffB/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Personal matter/opinion
Thanks. However, I«m not comparing, as I currently live in Argentina (and know nothing about the cost of living in other US cities.) The proposed salary is about 2300 U$S per month. Do you think that will cover the living costs? Thanks again, Christian - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Personal matter/opinion Christian, it depends on where you live in Virginia. In the DC area , for example, you will encounter one of the highest housing cost places in the U.S. I suggest you try the URL below: Http:://www.bestplaces.net/html/citycompare.asp Here you can compare any two cities from a wide variety of choices within the 50 states. This will give you the detailed comparisons such as you appear to be wanting between a city that you know and compare it to a city close by or in the city about which you are wanting to know the costs. Good luck. Glenn Ellis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free $5 Love Reading Risk Free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/09Lw8C/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Personal matter/opinion
Yep. thanks! Christian - Original Message - From: Curtis Sakima [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Personal matter/opinion Our U.S. media seems to indicate that the Argentine economy is in a real mess. If that is true, my sympathies go out to you on your country's fanancial situation. Curtis --- Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...as I currently live in Argentina... = Get your free newsletter at http://www.ezinfocenter.com/3122155/NL __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/it_ffB/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] back frm the dead
Hi all. I«ve been away for quite some time, mostly preparing the presentation of my thesis (on biodiesel production). Now I«ve passed that and I«m oficcialy an Environmental Engineer (actually, the paperwork takes about 6 months). Well, the news is I«ve updated my webpage and uploaded many biodiesel related papers. Amongst other stuff, you«ll be able to find an updated photo-description of the biodiesel production process (my first batches), as well as a spanish and english version of a 10 page summary of my thesis, together with the 156 pages long thesis (in spanish). There are also some pictures and personal info as my resume. Please find the mentioned site at: www.clenoir.com I hope you enjoy it and find it usefult to keep on spreading the word on biofuels. I would also like to thank the members of the list who were so important for my thesis« publication (Specially Keith, Steve, Todd, Manolo, Dana... and so many others!) (you were all included in the aknowledgements) Needless to say, anyone interested is authorised to publish the work or copy it to his/her personal sites provided my personal info is attached and mentioned as reference and as the source of the work. Hope you all like it. Best, Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] 55 degs
Hi, My name is Christian and I«m quite new to this group. I«m currently finishing Environmental Engineering and to graduate, I must prepare a sort of thesis (actually, it«s not a thesis... it«s more of a thorough project). Anyway, I was thinking of preparing biodiesel to run it on the lab«s diesel engine (a small boat outboard... not much HP) and eventually test NOx and CO emissions. So the question is, in the two stage process, are the 55 ¼C essential, or can the temperature be roughly a bit more. Actually, for my batch low-volume process, I was thinking of heating the stew with a closed circuit of water in copper pipes or something, heated by a fish-tank water heater and pumped by a small aquarium water pump. Does anyone think this is feasible? What are the ordinary home methods of heating the mixture at 55 degs for over an hour? Does the initial heating of the brew (until it reaches the 55 ¼C) count as time? Thanx. Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/bAmslD/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Turbines [biofuel]
Just wondering... Does anybody know of successful experiences concerning BD in turbines? Mainly microturbines for small scale power generation. Any info is welcome. Thanx Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http://us.click.yahoo.com/3FDzZA/MkNDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] washing machine and biodiesel
As an Environmental Engineer, I can«t turn my head on some of the previously discussed issues, but I must agree with Keith. As backyarders, maybe industrial-level safety should merely be reduced to good ventilation and other low-budget precautions. You usually can«t get explosion-proof devices without sky-rocketing your costs. The again, I«m still in the theory process, and haven«t yet performed a batch of BD (hopefully this -southern- summer or fall at the latest). So please don«t laugh at my suggestions if the practice has shown they are not feasible. Regarding the thermostat, just to mention one thing, I had thought of using a small diameter copper piping inside the reactor. A small fish-tank pump (hopefully would resist 55 deg) could push the water into the piping from a separate water container. A fish-tank thermostat would heat the water to 55 deg in this separate water tank. So 55 deg water would flow through the piping into the container. Please someone tell me if this idea is too obtuse (I don«t know if copper piping can be used in the reactor)... but still, the idea is that this can be built away from the reactor, and in the worse of cases, small explosion-proof boxes can be built to house these electric devices. That is, any hermetic container can have a couple of holes made to let the tubing through, and these holes can be hermetically sealed later. The rest is just proper ventilation. I«m just thinking out loud, because I still lack the experience, but I think there are home-made solutions regarding explosion safety. There«s not much I can say on VOC«s and all the rest of the environmental concerns, but most RD must leave these issues aside to be able to get somewhere. It«s like saying developing countries demand to emit an amount of CO2 to be able to develop. Christian. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] washing machine and biodiesel Hello David M Rolan wrote: Tell me please on wich pieces should I be carefull If you're using the methoxide process, do not use equipment that is not intrinsically safe for use in potentially explosive atmosheres. washing machine motors have carbon brushes on a commutator which are very efficient spark generators But many people use electric motors of some ilk to stir their BD. And water pumps, and thermostats, and more. Haven't heard of any accidents yet. So what would you suggest? Industrial-level safety that would pass the official inspectors' tests? For backyarders? Solenoid valves - sealed against explosive methanol vapours? water pump - ditto plus pressure thermostat - and if it fails? static protection - you have none And so it goes on. None of this addresses the toxicity of methanol nor the environmental implications of waste water, VOC emissions or glycerol disposal. You're talking about a commercial operation here. We've just been discussing the toxicity of methanol, we've just established that the environmental implications of waste water are essentially a non-issue, we've just agreed that glycerine disposal is also a non-issue because it's too useful to dispose of. Are you saying we should all go full-scale commercial or give up? I'd vouch that many or most of the biodiesellers on this list are as aware as or more aware of environmental issues than commercial operations (which will comply as much as they have to, because they have to, not because they care), and we all insist on full safety precautions - but this kind of safety overkill will just price us right out of the operation. And it is overkill. And seems to be rather contrary to your sig, below. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Recycling - not a chore more a way of life Dave Preskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] The BioComposites Centre University of Wales, Bangor Deiniol Road Bangor Gwynedd LL57 2UW Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Universal Inkjet Refill Kit $29.95 Refill any ink cartridge for less! Includes black and color ink. http
[biofuel] [biofuels] Short questions
I«m planning on building my first reactor this (southern) summer. I ran into a place just yesterday, which sold stainless steel thermostats for $30, electric heaters (big 15A ones) for about $30, digital thermometers for about $30 and glass ones for about $10... all in one same shop. So I was quite delighted to find so much useful stuff in one place. And the prices are not THAT bad for Argentina. I just have one problem, which is I still haven«t figured out if I should heat the BD using heated water in pipes, an electric submersible heater or an external electrical heater (to heat the metal tank from outside). What are your experiences about that? I have some questions regarding BF: .- What should the volume of the tank be if I were to produce 1 lt BD? (roughly) .- Can I distill methyl alcohol like EtOH? Does it form an azeotrope? .- Should I change to synthetic hoses if using BD50? .- What metals can be used freely in the construction of the reactor, other tan stainless steel, if any? .- I made a fractional distillation column at home but it«s made out of stainless steel (1 in diameter, 30 cm tall) and glass filling, and the top got too cold so I got no alcohol distilled. (I used a batch of water + EtOH to test it) Do you think a good insulation around the column is the ONLY key to success, or can the packing be too tight or the column too tall? If you blow through one end, there«s not much resistance, so I doubt the packing is a problem «cause the pressure from the boiler should get the steam through. .- Are attachments (*.jpg) allowed in the newsgroup? (Sorry, I«m new to this) I«d very much appreciate some short answers. Thanx, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Promise to Quit Nicotrol will help http://us.click.yahoo.com/5vN8tD/AqSDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] chemistry
Please excuse my chemical terms in english. I was wondering if you could clear a couple of things I had mixed up: Greases/oils (are they called fatty acid esters in english?) (CH2OCOR-CHOCOR«-CH2OCOR) and methanol (CH3OH) form Glicerol and BD (3 RCOOR)... right? Now this reaction needs either an acid or base catalyst (E.g., dry H2SO4 or HCl... OR NaOH) (here is where I get mixed up).. but NaOH would react with the greases/oils to form glicerol soap (3RCOONa)... So I assume the Sodium methoxide is a more efficient catalyst because it doesen«t form as much soap? On the other hand, I traditionally thought sodium methoxide CH3O(-)Na(+) was synthesised mainly from dry alcohols and metallic sodium (difficult to find + expensive + dangerous). But from what I gather from all the info in journeytoforever, just mixing methanol and NaOH (lye) produces an exothermic reaction which forms sodium methoxide. ÀIs this the catalyst or a reactant? If it is a catalyst, is it the dissociated (is that how you say it?) sodium from the CH3ONa that reacts with the fatty esters (greases/oils) to form the bothersome soap which is so important to get rid of in the washing stages? I know all this sounds a bit too chemical, but if anyone feels comfortable enough to speak in these terms, please enlighten me a bit. Tank you. (+ Happy new year) Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Send FREE Holiday eCards from Yahoo! Greetings. http://us.click.yahoo.com/IgTaHA/ZQdDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: chemistry (Bryan)
Thanks Bryan Best wishes, Christian. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] chemistry
Thanks Keith. Though I must clear out something... I was talking of HCl, Hydrochloric acid, not Nitric Acid (HNO3), which I do understand is a main chemical in the synthesis of various explosives (a friend of a close friend of mine did pass away in a lab explosion some years ago). The reference to HCl was found in the Morrison Boyd book on organic chemistry (I think it`s Prentice, or Mc Graw) One thing more, somewhere in journeytoforever it said small batches were exothermic enough to maintain the temperature close enough to 55 ¼C. If so, up to what volume is this true? Thanks for the advice concern. Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Send FREE Holiday eCards from Yahoo! Greetings. http://us.click.yahoo.com/IgTaHA/ZQdDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] chemistry water
Dear Bryan, I got a bit mixed up with the water... ÀWhich reaction produces it? If this is an equilibrium reaction, Àcan«t you turn it towards the products side by adding more meth? Best, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] chemistry
I re-read the article. No doubt about what it says there. I was really working out of my memory the other day, so it«s probable I mixed up the facts. Anyway, if I do find something on the exothermic heating, I«ll let you know. Again, thanks. Chirstian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] chemistry Thanks Keith. Though I must clear out something... I was talking of HCl, Hydrochloric acid, not Nitric Acid (HNO3), which I do understand is a main chemical in the synthesis of various explosives (a friend of a close friend of mine did pass away in a lab explosion some years ago). Yep, sorry, 'twas a bit late in the night - please see correction posted later. The reference to HCl was found in the Morrison Boyd book on organic chemistry (I think it`s Prentice, or Mc Graw) If you get any positive results with HCl, please let us know. One thing more, somewhere in journeytoforever it said small batches were exothermic enough to maintain the temperature close enough to 55 ¼C. If so, up to what volume is this true? I doubt it - you'll have to find the reference please. The exothermic reaction's over by the time the methoxide's properly mixed and you add it to the oil, I don't see how it could have any effect on maintaining the process temp. Mike Pelly says this, in discussing Test batches: Start by mixing up the lye and methanol in a blender (one that will never be used for food again). First make sure the blender and all utensils used are dry. Forming the exothermal sodium methoxide polar molecule will heat up the blender container a bit. Keep mixing until all the lye has been dissolved. He certainly doesn't say it provides enough heat for the transesterification process itself. Anyway his test batches are with one litre of WVO, the methoxide uses only 150 ml of methanol and 6.25 g NaOH, not very much heat there. I suggest you read it all again. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html Biodiesel recipe from Mike Pelly Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Thanks for the advice concern. Regards, Christian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Absolute Alcohol
Here is something I«d never try, specially in a motor (unless you want to run the risk of clogging it to death), but I found an interesting reference as to how to dehydrate alcohol and test it: The abstract is from Henley«s Twentieth Century FORMULAS Processes Trade Secrets, Books Inc, NY, 1957, by Prof. T O«Conor Sloane, A.B., A.M., E.M., Ph.D.. Yes, it«s as old as hell, and half the formulas it contains would probably considered herecy by E.P.A., but it still is interesting: Absolute Alcohol.- If gelatine be suspended in ordinary alcohol, it will absorb the water, but as it is insoluble in alcohol, that substance will remain behibd, and thus nearly absolute alcohol will be obtained without distillation. As to the methods for testing: Alcohol, Tests for Absolute.- the comittee for the compilation of the German Arzneibuch established the following tests for determination of absolute alcohol: Absolute alcohol is clear, colorless, volatile, readily inflammable liquid which burns with a faintly luminous flame. Absolute alcohol has a particular odour, a burning taste, and does not affect litmus paper. Boiling point, 78.50. Specific gravity, 0.795 to 0.797. One hundred parts contain 99.6 to 99.0 parts, by weight, of alcohol. Absolute alcohol should have no foreign smell and should mix with water without cloudiness. After the admixture of 5 drops of silver-nitrate solution, 10 cubic centimeters of absolute alcohol should not become turbid or coloured even on heating. A mixture of 10 cubic centimetres of absolute alcohol and 0.2 cubic centimeter of potash lye evaporated down to 1cubic centimeter should not exhibit an odour of fusel oil after supersaturation with dilute sulphuric acid. Five cubic centimeters of sulphuric acid, carefully covered, in a test tube, with a stratum of 5 cubic centimeters of absolute alcohol, should not form a rose colored zone at the surface of contact, even on standing for some time. The red color of a mixture of 10 cubic centimeters of absolute alcohol and 1 cubic centimeter of potassium-permanganate solution should not pass into yellow before 20 minutes. Absolute alcohol should not be dyed by hydrogen sulphide water or by aqueous ammonia. Five cubic centimeters of absolute alcohol should not leave behind a weighable residue after evaporation on water bath. Be warned, most (if not all) of the chemicals mentioned are dangerous and must be handled with care. The methods described come back from 1957, and as others in the book, are probably outdated by modern, safer methods. Be careful when experimenting. Personally, I tried the potassium-permanganate test after treating 96% EtOH with tasteless jello, and I really can«t tell for sure if it worked, as the color was a faint orange (not yellow, not pink or red). I did smell the so called absolute alcohol and my throat is still stinging (30 minutes after). Finally, I wouldn«t recommend this process, as any water mixed in the EtOH CAN form jelly, which at room/low temperatures is almost impossible to clean (mild/warm/hot water does the job OK). The point is, any jelly left in the alcohol (although if well filtered shouldn«t be present) would cause an awful lot of sugar to deposit/clog (and ruin) a motor. On the other hand, maybe doing things slowly and carefully solves the matter. I have no way of testing all this, so feel free to send comments. Thinking out loud, possibly the hydrated jelly could be dried and reused (?)... dunno. Please tell me if anyone has a trust-worthy lab method to test Absolute EtOH and has found this method works. Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] flammability
Could anyone please tell me at what water/alcohol ratio the alcohol stops being flammable? Thanks, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] metals
Does anyone know how bronze and niquel-coates (stainless) steel handle BD? Somewhere it mentioned NOT to use copper, but I«d appreciate info on the metals ALLOWED in the BD processor. Thanks in advance, Christian (BTW, Thanks Brad 4 your answer to flammability... I missed a couple of outgoing thank-yous the other day when trying to post on biofuels yahoogroup from my other email account.) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] HCL
I don«t know if I understand your question, but I«ll give it a go. HCl may be prepared by direct combination of the elements that form it: H2 + X2 -- 2HX -where X is generic for F, Cl, Br, I (Fluorine, Chlorine, Bromine, Iodine)- The reaction with F2 to produce HF is explosive and very dangerous. The reaction with Cl2 does not occur completely in darkness, but performs quickly in a chain photochemical reaction under light. The luminous energy is absorbed by the Cl2 molecules which decompose into chlorine radicals (very reactive atoms with un-paired electrons). These attack the H2 molecules and produce HCl molecules, leaving hydrogen atoms (also radicals) . The hydrogen radicals also attack Cl2 molecules to form HCl molecules and chlorine radicals, and so on and so forth. HCl is a colourless gas, melting point: -114.8 ¡C, Boiling point -84.9 ¡C A SAFER way of preparing HCl is by the reaction of a metallic chlorine compound, as NaCl (ordinary table salt) with a non volatile acid (concentrated H2SO4 or H3PO4) The formed HCl then bubbles out of the resulting solution. NaCl (s) + H2SO4 (aq) -- NaHSO4 (s) + HCl (g) Other reactions, like hydrolysis, that produce HCl: BCl3 + 3H2O -- H3BO3 + 3HCl SiCl4 + 2H2O -- SiO2 + 4HCl CONCLUSION: So, for small scale production, the best option would be NaCl and sulphuric acid. How to get sulphuric acid?... well, I do it by making electrolysis out of a copper sulphate solution (this is a widely available salt). I built my own electrolysis tub with a couple of the carbon rods inside ordinary 1.5 volt batteries (AA). The drawback of all this is that HCl is a GAS, so if you want HCl solution, you«d have to bubble the gas through distilled water, and for wat«s worth it, you«d be far better off buying ordinary MURIATIC acid (31% HCl in water). - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 7:23 PM Subject: [biofuel] HCL Can HCL be fomulated on a small scale? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
In my humble opinion, the process described seems the counterpart to the alchemists recipe for turning lead into gold. A process as described would, as Dana said, revolutionize production. Count me into the subject, though I don´t know what you´re implying with this. Sure, when I find some time, I´ll try to look it up. Any hints regarding a little more detail on the process, or where it came from?... just so as to get started. I was currently trying to do some testing with hydrochloric and ethanol.. but my whole first attempt processor project (traditional NaOH Meth recipe) is currently quite delayed due to the fact that all imported goods have gone up by 40% in the past week (due to the currency problems here in Argentina). Hope to hear more on the subject Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, Arne, I have not heard any further info on the process you describe. Of course this type of continuous process biodiesel/glycerin production would REVOLUTIONIZE home production of BD if made available. It would also work well in conjunction with the inexpensive WVO/SVO processing modules I am attempting to design and integrate. As I stated before even a very expensive catalyst module would pay for itself if shared by a group of users to maximize its use either by forming a cooperative around a shared WVO/SVO/biodiesel processor or by shipping the expensive catalyst module from one (otherwise inexpensive) home processor to another. I believe that this deserves more thorough investigation. Unfortunately, as you can see from my recent posts I already have a rather full plate. If there are three or four others that are willing to join forces to dig deeper I am more than willing to contribute to the effort as best I can. alarge oart of my living hinges on gathering intelligence but I can't do it on my own right now. Anyone else interested? Ed?,Keith? Others??? Dana --- Arne P. Ryason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any known progress on the INEEL process which uses a solid catalyst to produce biodiesel and food grade glycerin? Two scientists have developed a continuous process that eliminates the alcohol, base, acid, water wash steps of making biodiesel. Also, it is a continuous process, versus the batch process that is used now. The glycerin byproduct is food grade. Selling it would offset the refining process, making biodiesel competative with petrodiesel. Anyone with more info on this? __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Solid catalyst KGPE
To all, Thx all for the posts on solid cat. I think I recall something from one of my classes (courses?) (...whatever they«re called), this year. In some place it mentioned the use of potassium methoxide (KGME, or CH3-O-CH2-CH2-OK) and KGPE (Potassium Glyme Poly Ethilene). I think it was used in some dechlorination process for PCBs. The point is that KGPE is something like this: KO-[-CH2-CH2-]n-CH2-CH2-O-K (I think this was what the molecule looked like) Being the sodium methoxide the catalyst in the traditional Mike Pelly recipe (though I«ve never liked the word catalyst here, «cause the methoxide DOES react with the oil), couldn«t it be possible that the misterious catalyst mentioned in this whole discussion on solid catalysts, is in fact something like KGPE, or maybe NaGPE? Someone mentioned it was a polymer. Plus, the chemical properties of sucha a polymer shouldn«t differ that much from traditional methoxide. Then again, I wouldn«t see why this KGME wouldn«t react and dissappear (thus, not being a catalyst at all)- Please let me know if this polymer stuff rings a bell somewhere. If so, I«ll do a bit more research on this KGPE stuff. Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 1:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, The Fox-Ginosar process (INEEL) apparently uses a polymer. I posted this to the list a long time ago, I don't know if anyone ever picked it up: A message from Mike Pelly re solid phase catalysts: I have been getting ready to pick up some of that type of catalysts but have not till now. Not sure just what worked. I understand a chemical that is called Dowex works too. (Also need to retrofit my processor to make it happen.) I'm writing to pass along to you an idea I have on using a solid phase catalyst without going through the process of gluing it in place. My plans are to contain it in a tube that has screens with mesh finer than the catalyst at either end. The grease and alcohol is pumped through this in-line (filter-type) device. In simplistic terms it would be like placing the catalysts between two sink faucet screens and plumbing it in-line on a reactor like the one Dale Scroggins built. Also the part with unions at both ends, could be easily removed for easy cleaning, back flushing and recharging of catalyst. David Reid posted this: Points to start and research: (From the Woollatt book but remember published 1985). Bleaching and the treatment of Distillates with ion-exchange resins to upgrade quality : initial bleaching with 0.2-2.0% activated carbon ion-exchange resins from Rohm and Haas instead of or after a.c. [Macrorecticular resins (which have large discrete pores capable of removing relatively large molecular mass compounds from the liquid) are normally best for this duty which demands the removal of organic, rather than ionic, impurities ]. Sound ideal in this instance to me. eg: Amberlite 200 or 200C - strong cation resin . Amberlite IRA-93 - weak base anion resin. Amberlite IRA-900 - strong base anion resin Deodorization, using heat and open steam, under vacuum, following treatment often necessary. Production of refined grades of glycerine without distillation: Ion exclusion: process developed by Dow Chemical Co and reviewed in paper by D'Souza (1979) using a bed of granular resin such as Dowex WX8 allowed partial purification which could then be completed by ion-exchange. Ion-exchange process sounds okay but regeneration using hydrochloric or sulphuric acids for the cation resins and caustic soda for the anion resin dosnt sound really feasible or realistic for a small plant. Would also not be economic I believe. Lever Bros installed a plant in L.A. designed by Illinois Water Treatment Co in 1951 but would seriously doubt this was still in operation. Dosnt sound too promising. Distillation still seems to be the preferred method. Reverse Osmosis also dosnt sound too promising although there could have been developments in the last 15 years. Refs: Sourirajan and Kimura (1967), review Sourirajan and Matsuura (1982). This is also from Mike Pelly: From: Goltz, Bob (HR) To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Base catalyzed esterification Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:28:27 -0400 Mike Pelly...Thanks for your inquiry. Since you are running this reaction as base catalyzed, I think the product you need is DOWEX 1X2 in the OH form. This product comes in several particle sizes... 50-100, 100-200 and 200-400 mesh. I suggest you try the 50-100 mesh as it will give the lowest pressure drop and still offer short diffusional paths. The resin will catalyze this reaction as long as the resin is in the OH form. If the resin picks up chloride or other anions, it will sto working as a catalyst. To restore the DOWEX 1X2 capacity, it can be washed with NaOH as directed in the literature. More
[biofuel] HCl (again)
Yesterday, just for the sake of it, I tried this out: .- Poured some alcohol through jelly (remember my post on dehydrating ethanol?). I have no way to know what the final content of water was after drying it with jelly, and for the process I«m about to describe, it probably wasn«t even necessary, but still.- .- Gathered 2 ml EtOH in a test tube. .- Mixed with 12 ml new sunflower oil .- Added (0,5ml?... or less... didn«t measure) of Muriatic Acid (35% HCl in water) Then heated at about 57 degrees, mixing for about an hour. I built a mixer out of a washing machine little 5W 220V motor, and a flat rod of stainless steel (like the type used as oil gauges, in the block of car engines). I also have a tea cup warmer (sort of a fancy resistance heater-plate on which to leave your cup of coffe). I found out that this plate maintains a 250 ml Erlenmeyer full of water at about 57 degrees celsius. So I inmersed my BD test tube in a water filled Erlenmeyer, and with the stirrer (clamped to a retort stand) in it for about an hour, and left it to settle overnight. The result: After a night settling, I can see about 2ml of a very pale yellow not-so-dense liquid (Anyone who can tell me if this is BD???) The rest (about 12 ml) is a murky white-ish stuff... (sort of like glycerin?), resting below the supposed-BD. I guess this could be it: CH-O-CO---R CH2OH CH2-O-CO-R + CH3CH2OH --(HCl, 57¡)-- CHOH + 3 R-OC-O-CH2CH3 CHO-C-O---R CH2OH PLUS: If anyone«s interested, I also made a batch of H2SO4 (Sulphuric Acid), by electrolysis of iron sulphate solution. I still have a lot of colloidal iron, but pH is down to about 2 or less. Best to you all, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Pressure
I was thinking today (yes.. it«s an ability I sometimes have): Often chemical processes (specially polimerization) require high pressures. High pressure speeds up or even allows many reactions often not attainable at normal 1 atm. If I don«t recall badly, the inventors of Polartec (TM) started out in their basement, and made their first Polartec (TM) (or Fleece, or whatever you call it) batch in a pressure cooker. Pressure cookers are available in all shapes and sizes, and although they are not the cheapest saucepans around, the do a very good job in the processes mentioned. This mail might sound stupid. I don«t need to perform a reaction at high pressure for the time being, but I just wanted to remind those who had forgotten about this method, of the existance of pressure cookers. (No, I don«t sell them). Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] for those speaking spanish
There«s a very good report on BD, specially focusing on the economics and efficiencies in tractor engines in Argentina, published by Monsanto and the Agriculture Secretary of Argentina at: www.sagpya.mecon.gov.ar/0-0/index/institucional/biodiesel/Master.pdf It«s 80+ pages long, and also covers areas such as energies in the global market, oils prices, taxes, emissions, etc etc. Much of it speaks of these variables in Argentina, but if you can read spanish, you might as well give it a go. It seems quite extense. Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] titration results (Help me Keith)
Hi everyone. I«m somewhat confused after my titration results, so anyone (say, Keith, Dana, or anyone with experience)... it would be great to hear your opinion. I started my first BD batch today (I«ve gathered 7 lt. of WVO, -corn, sunflower-). And I got some queer results for cooked oil. I was following M. Pelly«s recipe, where it says I should use Phenolphthalein (which turns pink at around pH 8,3-9), but I used Merck (R) universal indicator, so I took two sets of values: one to reach pH7 and another to reach pH 8,3+. My only doubtful step was the weighing. I had a scale and my smalles bronze weight was 5g, so I mixed multiple-of-five combinations of nuts, bolts, nails and washers, and found out 2 nuts and a washer added up to 1g. That was what I used to measure 1g of sodium hydroxide. QUESTION 1. ÀShould I titrate to pH 7 or pH 8,3? RESULTS: As I took 4 sets of values, I«ve indicated the std. dev. too. To reach pH7 -- 0,26 ml (+/-0,062) of NaOH (0,025M) To reach pH 8,3 -- 0,32 ml (+/- 0,052) of NaOH (0,025M) Note: 0,025 M = concentration of the solution. 1 mole of NaOH weighs 40g, then 1 g of NaOH is 1/40th of a mole, i.e., 0.025 moles. That, in a liter, is a 0,025 M solution (0.025 moles/liter). QUESTION 2. ÀIsn«t this awfully low for (cooked) WVO? QUESTION 3. ÀWhat does thin mean?...ÀIs it very low in FFA? I suppose the worst that can happen is I«ll get the 3d layer of unreacted oil together with the BD (i.e. if my values for NaOH are in fact too short). I«d rather get that than the gel formed by an excess of lye. On the other hand, as I«m still experimenting, I think I«ll go hard on MeOH (20% volume of oil). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] PP PET (Todd?)
Does anyone know if: PC (polycarbonate), PP (polypropylene), or PET (polyethylene therfthalate -plastic coke bottles-) are suitable for the methoxide mix? I think they are all quite chemical-resistant plastics (at least PET PC). They seem much more available over here. Thanks, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] My 2nd titration (to Keith)
Dear Keith, Remember my odd titration results? Well, now I measured the lye on a precision scale (measures up to hundredths of a gram) and made a solution of 1.06 g NaOH/lt (It was the closest I could get, given the size of the solid NaOH pips). Close enough. I titrated again, and (oops, forgot heating the WVO), titrated to around 1,3 ml. I figured the first results were low because Phenolphthalein in unheated WVO/isoprop takes some time to react with all the prsent FFA, so vigorous mixing is needed, as well as -time-. My results are still low for used oil (ranging from 1,22 ml to 1,5 ml), but now they seem closer to reality. I«ll be trying out a liter batch in a couple of days, and I«ll try 4g; 4,2g; 4,6g; 4,8g and 5g of NaOH to find the best results (these values correspond with titration results varying from 0,5 ml NaOH to 1,5 ml NaOH). Wish me luck. I«ve only one doubt, which is the container to use for Methoxide for my 1 lt batch. ÀHow hot can the Methoxide get (200ml MeOH + 4,8g NaOH)? ÀIs a 2 lt pyrex beaker OK (yes, it«s glass, but I«ll be working in a lab under good supervision)? ÀOnce in the WVO, is the mix safer to handle, or should I treat it as methoxide for the first minutes? Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] SUCCESS!
I«ve just completed my FIRST BD BATCH As small as it may seem, my test batch was as follows: 100 ml WVO 20 ml MeOH aprox 0,48 g NaOH (measured very unprecisely on a scale) Initial volume: 120 ml I mixed the MeOH+NaOH in a 250 ml Erlenmeyer, then poured it into a 150 ml beaker which contained the WVO (should have done it in inverse order)... mixed (not for long) while I heated it half of the time on the stove and the rest of the time on an electric cup warmer (which I know maintains a 250ml Erlenmeyer of water at 54 ¡C). RESULTS: My BD is settling in a 200 ml probe. Up to now, I can distinguish the pale-golden BD atop (aproximately 99 ml) and a brownish denser glycerine (about 11ml) at the bottom. The BD is translucent but still faintly murky (needs settling for at least 12 hs). Final Volume: 110 ml INCREDIBLE! Thanks Keith and all! Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] SUCCESS!
I«ve just completed my FIRST BD BATCH As small as it may seem, my test batch was as follows: 100 ml WVO 20 ml MeOH aprox 0,48 g NaOH (measured very unprecisely on a scale) Initial volume: 120 ml I mixed the MeOH+NaOH in a 250 ml Erlenmeyer, then poured it into a 150 ml beaker which contained the WVO (should have done it in inverse order)... mixed (not for long) while I heated it half of the time on the stove and the rest of the time on an electric cup warmer (which I know maintains a 250ml Erlenmeyer of water at 54 ¡C). RESULTS: My BD is settling in a 200 ml probe. Up to now, I can distinguish the pale-golden BD atop (aproximately 99 ml) and a brownish denser glycerine (about 11ml) at the bottom. The BD is translucent but still faintly murky (needs settling for at least 12 hs). Final Volume: 110 ml INCREDIBLE! Thanks Keith and all! Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] cloudiness (followup un my 2nd Titration - to Keith)
Hi Keith, My batch of BD settled the glycerine out nicely, though the BD still seemed a bit cloudy. It was translucent, but not crystal clear... Is this suspended water? I now bubble-washed it (not for long... the first few minutes produced an emulsion of BD+water which seemed murky white-ish/yewllow-ish. Now I«m settling it. The first wash water is very white (almost like milk). QUESTION: If the BD remains non-crystal-clear after some washing settling, should I take it to 105 deg C for some minutes? Best wishes, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fw: cloudiness (please REPOST answers - email prog problem)
- Original Message - From: Christian To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 2:55 PM Subject: cloudiness (followup un my 2nd Titration - to Keith) Hi Keith, My batch of BD settled the glycerine out nicely, though the BD still seemed a bit cloudy. It was translucent, but not crystal clear... Is this suspended water? I now bubble-washed it (not for long... the first few minutes produced an emulsion of BD+water which seemed murky white-ish/yewllow-ish. Now I«m settling it. The first wash water is very white (almost like milk). QUESTION: If the BD remains non-crystal-clear after some washing settling, should I take it to 105 deg C for some minutes? Best wishes, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Is it OK to heat BD to remove water?
Is it ok to heat finished washed Bd to 105 deg C for a couple of minutes to boil off remaining dissolved water (and hence remove cloudiness)? Thanks, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fw: cloudiness (Paul Gobert)
Dear Paul, My third wash left almost crystal clear water, and after settling for 2 daysd, the BD is definitely transparent and non-cloudy. Today I continued with 4 litres of BD (four 1 liter batches). Im still in the glys-BD settling stage, and the BD looks much more brownish than my first batch, and still cloudy. Ill give it a day or so settling to see what happens. Anyway, if too much lye forms that sticky gel and too little forms a third layer of unreacted WVO, then if I only get a layer of glycerine and a layer of WVO, my proportions should be right, right?. And very little whit residue (soap?) is left on top of the glycerine layer. However, the first wash is very dirty (white, milky cloudy almos foamy). So what should I change to get less soap formation?. Supposedly less water? Can I wash indefinitely (say, three or four times) to remove all soap? Best wishes (+ thanks in advance), Christian - Original Message - From: Paul Gobert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fw: cloudiness - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 2:27 AM My batch of BD settled the glycerine out nicely, though the BD still seemed a bit cloudy. It was translucent, but not crystal clear... Is this suspended water? I now bubble-washed it (not for long... the first few minutes produced an emulsion of BD+water which seemed murky white-ish/yewllow-ish. Now Im settling it. The first wash water is very white (almost like milk). Christian, you could have soap problems. Filter a sample of the BD through a filter paper. It should filter crystal clear and leave a white soapy residue on the paper. Whatman No. 1 filter papers are rated at 11 micron. Processing may have to be adjusted so that not so much soap is formed, or use a gentler washing technique such as mist washing. QUESTION: If the BD remains non-crystal-clear after some washing settling, should I take it to 105 deg C for some minutes? Have done that in past. BD clears up when heated but cloudiness returns when it cools. After filtering I trialed heat drying but no water dropped out, I no longer heat dry, filtering is my final step. Regards, Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: cloudiness again (Paul Gobert)
My 100 ml of BD (first batch) are now crystal clear after three washings (sort of the colour of sunflower oil, maybe clearer). Might need a filtering just for precaution before using... nothing else. All my batches come from the same WVO, which hardly titrated to 1.5 ml (pretty cool for used oil). My new 4 liters have separated spectacularly well and the glyc is starting to solidify. BD remains the colour of light tea but amazingly crystal-transparent. Looks are good. Ill keep in touch. Hopefully Ill be setting a site up soon at least to post some pictures (a 36 photo roll) Best wishes, Christian - Original Message - From: Paul Gobert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Fw: cloudiness (Paul Gobert) - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] Anyway, if too much lye forms that sticky gel and too little forms a third layer of unreacted WVO, then if I only get a layer of glycerine and a layer of WVO, my proportions should be right, right?. [snip] Not a definitive guide as to the quality of the BD. As an example made two batches of BD from some really well used oil. (More about this oil in a few days when I do more tests, get more imformation from the distributers.) The oil titrated at 9.0ml, pretty well used. Tried neutralising some of the acidity with lime but this oil refused to transesterify after the treatment. Titration was definitely lower but even using levels of NaOH appropriate for the titration on the origional oil, the treated oil/ methoxide mix remained in one phase. Going back to the origional oil I made two 1L batches. Both used 250ml of methanol. Batch A/. 15ml of conc aqueous NaOH added to methanol, Batch B/. 20ml added to methanol.Shaken in 2L bottle, set aside. In half an hour both batches had settled nicely. The origional oil is almost black, BD/glycerine interface difficult to see in A/., easier to see in B/. (BD in B lighter in colour) Yield. A/. 810ml BD, 450ml glycerine. B/. 710ml BD, 500ml glycerine. Glycerine from both batches drained off easily at 25 deg C. Batch A/. glycerine was still liquid when last seen 6 hours later. Batch B/. glycerine set after four hours, setting seemed to occur from the top down even though the beaker was sitting on cold tiles. From past experience expect both SG and viscosity of Batch B/. to be lower than that from Batch A/. And very little whit residue (soap?) is left on top of the glycerine layer. However, the first wash is very dirty (white, milky cloudy almos foamy). So what should I change to get less soap formation? Use an oil with less FFA. Neutralise the FFA in the oil you use. Titrate your oil and use the ammount of NaOH indicated by the titration. The oil used here titrated to 12.5g NaOH/litre. Batch A/. used the equivalent of 12.5g and Batch B/. 16.7g Better to err on the high hide than the low side especially if you are processing animal fats or the oil you are using has beef tallow residues in it. Use 250ml methanol per litre of oil. Can I wash indefinitely (say, three or four times) to remove all soap? By all means. Make sure that your initial washing is not to vigorous though as it is easy to loose BD through emulsification in the presence of soaps. Mist washing combined with prolonged settling works well. Usually only the emulsion layer between the BD and the wash water requires prolonged settling. Would be good to see others have an input to this as these observations are from processing using conc aqueous NaOH to make the methoxide. Whilst this method works well for me and the GC results have been favourable, its not a method which has acheived universal acceptance. Accounts of others experiences in these areas would be appreciated. More on that Black Oil later. Regards, Paul Gobert. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] murky
Hi everyone. After my third wash, my 4 lt of BD are still not translucent (after three days of settling). Will continue to let it settle for a week more. ÀShould this work? ÀOr is my batch ruined?. Does filtering remove the cloudiness? ÀDoes heating to over 100¼C to remove water oxidize (spoil) the ester? Tanks (Keith, Paul, whoever) Christian Lenoir @ [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Juncal 189, Martnez (1640) Buenos Aires, Argentina ( +54 (11) 4792-1094 Fax: +54 (11) 4798-8377 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: (Todd Paul) [biofuel] murky
Thanks to you both for the tips. I still haven«t tried filtering. Heating to, say, 60¼C, makes the BD clear... even leaving it in full sunshine has the same effect, but at 20¼C the BD goes back cloudy. (This is regarding Todd«s 120¼F -49¼C- suggestion) I«ll try Paul«s suggestion first, just because it«s simpler. Anyway, I don«t quite understand how filtering removes cloudiness that comes from liquid particles (either water or glycerides). My reaction times were, I admit it, perhaps too short. I mixed four independent 1 liter batches, and they were each left to react for about 30 to 40 minutes. The reaction seemed complete after 10 minutes or so, and I thought 30-40 min would do. Washing stage 1 left some emulsion problems, but decanting over night allowed me to drain the water together with a small emulsified+soap layer in between. I used a 6lt pyrex with an opening at the bottom, so I always drained the water from below, rather than syphoning the BD form atop. Todd: how do I calculate the proportion of lye if I were to follow your suggestion? Will an excess simply wash out in the washing stage? Or might it react to form the so feared gel? My third washing left the water almost clear, and instead of an emulsion, I sort of got the washing bottle full of bubbles... but not soap bubbles. They were rather BD bubbles (5mm in diameter) in the water, and water bubbles (same size) in the BD portion, and they all dissappeared quickly after turning off the aereator. Thanks... I«ll keep in touch. Best to you all, Christian - Original Message - From: Paul Gobert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] murky - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 1:28 PM Subject: [biofuel] murky Does filtering remove the cloudiness? Usually works wonders, needs to be fairly fine filter medium though. For example a disposable plastic inline fuel filter will pass cloudy BD. A 11 micron filter paper (Whatman No. 1) produces crystal clear BD from the same murky BD. Regards, Paul Gobert. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 19/04/02 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] murky now clear
Dear Todd Paul (and the rest of you), I used a couple of coffee paper filters in a funnel, filtered the fuel, and the BD turned out sparklingly transparent (at room temp). Thanks again for the help, Christian. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] murky
Right: I found out my filtering also removed a foamy white stuff, leaving the BD clear. - Original Message - From: Paul Gobert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] murky - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] [snip] Anyway, I don«t quite understand how filtering removes cloudiness that comes from liquid particles (either water or glycerides). Christian, the material that my filtration removes is more of a white soapy mature than water or glycerides. It looks much the same colour as clean white tallow but it is more uniform in consistency and does not set at room temp. My reaction times were, I admit it, perhaps too short. I mixed four independent 1 liter batches, and they were each left to react for about 30 to 40 minutes. The reaction seemed complete after 10 minutes or so, and I thought 30-40 min would do. In light of what Todd and others have reported I have extended my mixing times. This may improve the clarity of the BD but I think my use of conc aqueous NaOH is a contributing factor. Strangely enough results from a test using varying levels of NaOH, with a fixed level of methanol on the same feedstock, gave clearer unwashed BD for higher levels of NaOH than optimum (titration) or low levels. Viscosity and SG were also lower for high levels of NaOH. These tests bear repeating as the mixing was of short duration. I suspect that optimum mixing would level out the differences. Regards, Paul Gobert. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 19/04/02 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] what could it be?
After settling my glycerin, I decided to wash and neutraliza it. I first used vinegar, but noticed the pH level whent down very slowly, and I was rather diluting the glyc with too much water from the vinegar acetic acid solution. So I reached for the HCl 35% (muriatic) acid. pH started going upwards, say, 1 pH level per 2 ml (very roughly from what I can recall). I was also heating to remove the excess methanol. We know that any NaOH will react with vinegar (CH3COOH) to form CH3COONa (a salt) + water. with HCl, the reaction forms table salt (NaCl) and water, and table salt wouldn«t represent a problem if I were to use the glycerin as a soap... so: I continued adding HCl, until suddenly the pH whent down drastically, sort of as in a buffer effect. This is quite possible, as a buffer solution isone which will tend to maintain a certain pH for a given ammount of acid or base added. These can be made from a) a weak acid and an ionic soluble salt of the weak acid, or b) a weak base and a soluble ionic salt of the weak base. For example, CH3COOH (acetic acid) and CH3COOH. So I suddenly forced pH too low, but in the meantime, big flocks of something like waxes or thick creamy greasy looking things started forming in the mixture. When I finished the heating, and adding some NaOH solution to return to pH 7, the remaining liquid was a mixture of glycerin and water below (probably + soluble salts), and something atop which looked like very dark brown biodiesel.Now, at room temp, there«s a mixture of liquid brown something, plus floating and submerged spots and bubbles and skimming floating layers of other whiteish solid things (guk). Could these be esterified FFA remains with longer chains that remail solid at room temp? How could this be if supposedly FFA react FIRST with the catalyst, and then with the WVO, and my yield for that batch seemed perfect? Any ideas? Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] what could it be? (to Ken)
Interesting! Does it always form? And is heating and neutralizaing the usual way of getting to it? Thanks Christian - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] what could it be? Christian writes: So I suddenly forced pH too low, but in the meantime, big flocks of something like waxes or thick creamy greasy looking things started forming in the mixture. When I finished the heating, and adding some NaOH solution to return to pH 7, the remaining liquid was a mixture of glycerin and water below (probably + soluble salts), and something atop which looked like very dark brown biodiesel. The dark liquid is called acidulated soapstock, and is almost entirely free fatty acid. (FYI -- Crude oleic acid made this way is also known as red oil.) This is the stuff I've been playing with for a couple weeks now. You can try to esterify it to biodiesel with acid catalyst, you can throw it on the nearest dirt road to keep the dust down, you can turn it into soap, you can react it with Ca(OH)2 to form the calcium salt which you can then feed to your pigs or dairy cattle as a ruminally inert fat booster, etc, etcMany people nowadays are frantically looking for wonderful uses for the stuff. Let us know what you find. Seriously, tho, what you're doing is great -- FFAs are basically the final effluent you have to deal with after neutralizing everything else. They're fairly strong herbicides, so you really don't want to just toss 'em in the compost with the aqueous phase. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?)
stirring. A conic floor (for the bucket) would probably help (as in a cyclone: apparatus used to settle dust particles from an air stream). Best to you all, and please tell me if anyone is interested in further testing this method. Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?)
Sounds logical, (anyway I don«t know if the term phase really applies here). But it sounds unreasonable to believe the reaction taking place in the WVO/BD/MeOH layer will have a way of knowing if the layer og glycerin belw is 1cm, 2cm or a mile deep. I need to go back to over my books for this one. We need hard references for the displacement of the reaction how to-s. If what you point is right, then centrifugating the mixture while processing (just to gather the glycerine together) should be enough, without havin to tap it out... assuming you can afford a centrifugue. And if this principle is right, there«s another implication: In Alek«s 2 stage method, simply stopping the reaction at 3/4 vol methoxide, and adding the remaining 1/4 the day after in the same mixture (without separating the glycerin) would be OK... and this is something important because each time you separate the glyc from the BD you might be discarding the layer in between (unless you store these layers for further processings and then separate and gather up all the leftovers) Am I being clear here? I think not. The point is that in the traditional 2 stage method, after the first stage you separate the glycerin and remove it, taking along with it some fine interphase layer of BD with it. But if the assumtion yuo mentioned is right, there«d be no need for this and you could simply reheat, proceed with stage 2 (adding the remaining 1/4 MeOH) and finishing the reaction, and so you«d avoid removing the glycerin (together with avoiding the drawback of removing the small interphase layer of BD for every syage) just to remaove the whole lot of glycerin after the last stage. Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?) I don't have any hard references on this, but I believe the precipitation of glycerine from the biodiesel reaction as a separate phase is all that is required to shift the equilibrium. Whether a glycerine molecule is in a separate droplet a millimeter away, or a separate bucket six feet away, it's basically out of the picture. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?)
ANYWAY: 1.- Le Chatelier«s Principle: the position of equilibrium always shifts in such a direction that eases the tension applied on the system 2.- Chemical reactions DO NOT END in the equilibrium, but rather it is at this point where the speed of the reacion in one way and the other are equal. This means that in the equilibrium, there is as much glycerin and BD combining to produce MeOH and WVO as there is WVO and MeOH combining to produce glycerin and BD. If you take this into consideration, then I figure you can say that removing the glycerin to a bucket six feet away is the only way in which you can favour the equilibrium towards the products side, «cause if there still is an interfase between glycerin and BD/WVO, you will still have amounts of glyc/BD in the interfase of the liquids combining to form more WVO/MeOH. What I still can«t explain is how the amount of (not the presence of) glycerin may favour the reaction towards one side or the other. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?) I don't have any hard references on this, but I believe the precipitation of glycerine from the biodiesel reaction as a separate phase is all that is required to shift the equilibrium. Whether a glycerine molecule is in a separate droplet a millimeter away, or a separate bucket six feet away, it's basically out of the picture. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?)
Thaks for the compliment. Anyhow, I just made a mini 1 lt batch and repeating the BD preparation processs I«m seeing the glyc first produced still needs a couple of minutes to settle gather up at the bottom. More miportant still, I had also forgotten the methoxide mixed in it and would be removed if I took away the glyc. -thanks for the reminder-. I think we won«t be seeing how spiral galaxies influence the BD manufacture process for now. Well, it takes many failures to get to a good improvement. Anyway it was worth the chat. Greetings, Christian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?) You'll be removing some methanol too, Christian, don't forget. Which version of Aleks's method are you using? The updated version has quite a few changes, and one of them is that the glyc isn't removed after the acid stage, but it is progressively removed during the second stage (if your processor permits). Thankyou for explaining the spiral galaxy in my coffee, I always wondered how it got there without a Big Bang. No, seriously, nice explanation, you can watch it forming and see some basic principle at work, nice to have it explained. Very interested to know if it leads to a process improvement, that would be great, and a nice story to tell too. Best Keith Sounds logical, (anyway I don«t know if the term phase really applies here). But it sounds unreasonable to believe the reaction taking place in the WVO/BD/MeOH layer will have a way of knowing if the layer og glycerin belw is 1cm, 2cm or a mile deep. I need to go back to over my books for this one. We need hard references for the displacement of the reaction how to-s. If what you point is right, then centrifugating the mixture while processing (just to gather the glycerine together) should be enough, without havin to tap it out... assuming you can afford a centrifugue. And if this principle is right, there«s another implication: In Alek«s 2 stage method, simply stopping the reaction at 3/4 vol methoxide, and adding the remaining 1/4 the day after in the same mixture (without separating the glycerin) would be OK... and this is something important because each time you separate the glyc from the BD you might be discarding the layer in between (unless you store these layers for further processings and then separate and gather up all the leftovers) Am I being clear here? I think not. The point is that in the traditional 2 stage method, after the first stage you separate the glycerin and remove it, taking along with it some fine interphase layer of BD with it. But if the assumtion yuo mentioned is right, there«d be no need for this and you could simply reheat, proceed with stage 2 (adding the remaining 1/4 MeOH) and finishing the reaction, and so you«d avoid removing the glycerin (together with avoiding the drawback of removing the small interphase layer of BD for every syage) just to remaove the whole lot of glycerin after the last stage. Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] 2 stages... what if? (new method?) I don't have any hard references on this, but I believe the precipitation of glycerine from the biodiesel reaction as a separate phase is all that is required to shift the equilibrium. Whether a glycerine molecule is in a separate droplet a millimeter away, or a separate bucket six feet away, it's basically out of the picture. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Important notes
I was chatting today with a chemical engineer who happened to write his final thesis (the paper you write in order to graduate) on the methyl esters and transesterifications. As a chemical engineer, he studied che kinetics of the reaction and the reaction speeds, and he designed a production facility for a continuous process. He made all sorts of tests using IR spectrography at different points of the reaction, and made a very thorough work from the chemical point of view. He did not want to show me his thesis (maybe he was afraid of me copying methods still not patented), but he did give me some hints and opinions, which I try to summarize here, and which you might want to have a look at: (This guy used soy oil) .- Strange enough, he pointed out that some thorough investigations were not 100% right, but he didn«t say where they were wrong: he just added do the experimentation yourself, and you«ll see .- He said that 50¼C for the reaction was waaay too much. He said he carried out his continuous process at room temperature. Besides this, he pointed out that the glycerin was very easily decomposed into acrolein and things like that, which make it dark brown. I was so curious that just now, when I got home, I made a 100ml batch at room temp (now around 18¼C), and mixed for only 15 minutes. This guy said that they had achieved a 98% conversion after this time period. Now I«ve let it settle, and I can see after about an hour settling that the glycerin DOES show up much clearer (pure glyc is transparent). He also said that in his continuous process he had designed a three stage evaporator to remove the water from it, after distilling it to get out the MeOH (I suppose he«d do this under vacuum, so as not to heat the glyc and turn it into the mentioned brown acrolein). I found this point most interesting. .- He mentioned they used sulphuric acid (say, 4ml per liter of WVO) to cut the reaction and stop the NaOH (this forms sodium sulphate, Na2SO4, which is washed with the water). I said I added some drops of vinegar in the washing stage and he almost whent crazy: he said tha any ammount of vinegar capable of modifying pH would produce great problems with the injectors. He said motors are very sensitive to those acid conditions. .- He also pointed out that I should remove the sulphates (which came from the sulphuric acid / lye reaction) from the glycerin, and added that the glycerin was full of impurities: sulphates, MeOH, water... .- He also added that boiling off the MeOH was not a very eco-friendly thing to do, and that you«d never be able to boil off 100% of it (eve with a distillation column) .- He said a continuous centrifugue was not har to get, but reaction velocities had to be carefully measured when designing a continuous process. He fancied this method and said that settling the BD was not a good option, specially after vigorous mixing, which always (according to him) brought emulsification problems of some kind. .- Regarding the fact I am an environmental engineer, he pointed out the washing stages use a damn great ammount of water (I can«t recall having heard of an alternative to this from him). Also, than no reaction is 100% efficient and that if I was to measure exhaust gases, then I *should* be checking for unburnt traces of methanol, which could produce nasty emissions. Everything he said sounded most interesting, but presented me with a whole new set of questions to be answered. I«m very eager to hear the opinion of those with experience in BD making, specially those who use it regularly in their cars. Best to you all, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] glycerin (Long but interesting)
Pasted from: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/eclectic/kings/glycerinum.html Glycerinum (U. S. P.)-Glycerin. Preparations: Glycerita.-Glycerites - Suppositories of Glycerin - Glycerin Lotion - Preparations Related entry: Sapo (U. S. P.)-Soap Other tomes: Cook - Felter - Ellingwood - Petersen - BPC - AJP Mar 1871 (Glycerin quality) - AJP Dec 1871 FORMULA: C3H5(OH)3. MOLECULAR WEIGHT: 91.79. A liquid obtained by the decomposition of vegetable or animal fats or fixed oils, and containing not less than 5 per cent of absolute glycerin (C3H5[OH]3= 91.79)-(U. S. P.). SYNONYMS: Glycerina (U. S. P., 1870), Glycerine, Glycerol, Propenyl alcohol. History and Preparation.-Glycerin was discovered, in 1779, by Scheele in the saponification products of olive oil by means of litharge, and later recognized by him as a common constituent of other oils and fats, and therefore named the sweet principle of fats. Chevreul gave it the name glycerin, and cleared up the nature of its combination in the fats. Glycerin, or glycerol, as it is now preferably called to indicate its alcohol character, is a trihydric alcohol (C3H5[OH]3), containing the trivalent radical glyceryl (C3H5). It exists in oils and fats, combined with palmitic, stearic, and oleic acids in the form of glycerylesters of these acids (tripalmitin, tristearin, triolein; also see under Adeps). In some oils and fats it is combined partially with other acids-e. g., in butter-wherein 5 per cent of the total fat is glyceryl-tributyrate, or tributyrin; in cod-liver oil it is said to exist in part combined with acetic acid, as glyceryl triacetate, or triacetin, etc. Glycerin also exists in the yolk of eggs and the human brain in the form of phospho-glyceric acid. Pasteur's researches have also established its occurrence as a regular constituent among the products of fermentation (see Alcohol). On a small scale glycerin may be obtained in the process which led to its discovery, viz., that of making lead plaster (see Emplastrum Plumbi). The late Mr. Robert Shoemaker prepared by this method probably the first Commercial glycerin in the United States, in 1848, at $4.00 a pound (Amer. Jour. Pharm., 1879, p. 289). The article became official in the U. S. P., in 1850. Large quantities of glycerin are now obtained as a by-product in the manufacture of soaps and candles. This was formerly thrown away as useless. The principle involved is simply that of splitting the fat into its constituents (fatty acid and glycerin) by adding the elements of water (see Emplastrum Plumbi). The process of saponification is being carried out in several different ways: (1) With alkalies; the fatty acids thereby combine with alkali and form soap (see Sapo); the glycerin in diluted form is contained in the aqueous layer below the soap. (2) With milk of lime (old process of Campbell Morfit, see this Dispensatory, previous revision), or with milk of lime and water in closed vessels under a pressure of 10 atmospheres and a temperature of 172¡ C. (242.6¡ F.) (Milly's Autoclave Process, see Prof. S. P. Sadtler, Handbook of Indust. Org. Chem., 1895, p. 56). The glycerin water separates from the layer of lime soap and fatty acids; glycerin is obtained therefrom best by evaporation in vacuo. (3) With superheated steam (aqueous saponification) and subsequent redistillation of the raw glycerin. This method was introduced, in 1855, by Messrs. Wilson and Paine, and marked a great step forward in the problem of obtaining a pure article. In saponifying the fats with superheated steam, the temperature must not exceed 300¡ C. (572¡ F.), or else decomposition products will be formed. Both the fatty acid and the glycerin distill over. In redistilling the raw glycerin by superheated steam, the liquid is heated to about 180¡ C. (356¡ F.), and the steam has a temperature of about 110¡ C. (230¡ F.). For details regarding the manufacture of glycerin, consult the various works on chemical technology. Description.-Glycerin is officially described as follows; A clear, colorless, liquid, of a thick, syrupy consistence, oily to the touch, odorless, very sweet and slightly warm to the taste. When exposed to the air, it slowly abstracts moisture. Specific gravity, not less than 1.260 at 15¡ C. (59¡ F.). Soluble, in all proportions, in water or alcohol, also soluble in a mixture of 3 parts of alcohol and 1 part of ether, but insoluble in ether, chloroform, carbon disulphide, benzin, benzol, and fixed or volatile oils. Glycerin is slowly volatilized from an aqueous solution, at or above 100¡ C. (212¡ F.), with the vapor of water. Heated by itself to a higher temperature, it yields acrid decomposition products, boils at a temperature at or above 165¡ C. (329¡ F.), and is finally entirely decomposed and dissipated-(U. S. P.). The exceedingly irritating decomposition products are chiefly due to the formation of acrolein (allyl aldehyde, C2H3.CHO), which is also formed when
[biofuel] OILS (Long but interesting)
Pasted From: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/eclectic/kings/olea.html Olea.-Oils. Related entries: Olea Infusa (N. F.)-Infused Oils - Index of Oils - Sapo (U. S. P.)-Soap Other tomes: Cook (volatile oils) - Cook (fixed oils) - Potter (volatile oils) - Potter (fixed oils) The term Oil applies to a number of unctuous bodies not miscible with water, from both the vegetable and animal kingdoms, which are fluid at ordinary or slightly elevated temperature. When placed upon paper they render it translucent, or impart to it a greasy stain. Oils may be conveniently divided, with reference to their volatility, into two great classes: Fixed or fatty oils and fats, to which also belong the waxes (see Cera), and volatile or essential oils. Intermediate between the two, although chemically unlike either, stand the mineral oils and mineral waxes, or paraffins (see Petrolatum). Olea Fixa.-FIXED or FATTY OILS (Olea pinguia). Fixed oils derive their name from not being volatilized by the vapors of boiling water. The difference between fatty oils and fats is merely one of consistency, the former being liquid, the latter solid or semisolid at ordinary temperatures. In the vegetable kingdom, fixed oils are mostly derived from the seeds of dicotyledonous plants, although monocotyledonous plants, such as the palm trees, furnish several of the technically important fixed oils. The oil often constitutes a large proportion of the seeds, e. g., not less than 25 per cent in linseed, 50 per cent in walnuts, about as much in almonds, as against about 2 per cent in cereals. It is obtained from the crushed oil-bearing material, either by cold or warm pressure, in hydraulic presses, or by extracting with such solvents as carbon disulphide, or by boiling the crushed material with water, whereby the oil floats on top and may be conveniently collected. The residual press-cakes, obtained in the first process (oil cakes), are valuable feed material for cattle, since they contain much nitrogenous and fatty matter (see table in Prof. S. P. Sadtler's Handbook of Indust. Org. Chem., 2d ed., 1895, p. 70). The oils and fats derived from the animal kingdom, are obtained from various organs of the animal; thus, bone-oil from bones, by boiling with water, or extraction with solvents; neat's-foot oil from the feet of oxen by boiling with water; cod-liver oil and shark oil, from the respective livers, by spontaneous exudation and gentle expression; tallow and lard from the internal abdominal fat of sheep and hogs (see Sevum and Adeps), etc. The crude oils and fats as obtained in the manner alluded to, are mostly of a yellow, brown or even black color, and frequently require more or less purification. This is often effected by mechanical treatment, such as filtration with or without charcoal, etc., but more frequently, by chemical processes, especially treatment with 1 or 2 per cent of strong sulphuric acid (applicable, for example, to linseed oil), or with zinc chloride, or alkalies, tanning materials and oxidizers, such as potassium bichromate, hydrogen peroxide, etc. The fatty oils of marine animals, and those from most vegetable sources, are fluid at ordinary temperature; palm oil, cacao-butter, nutmeg butter, cocoanut oil, and others, are semisolid like butter. When exposed to cold, fixed oils solidify at temperatures varying with the oil. Fatty oils are insoluble in water, rendering that fluid milky when agitated with it, but the oil finally rises upon the surface; if a mucilaginous substance, or alkaline carbonate be added, the oil is prevented from rising., and a permanent milky mixture called an emulsion is formed. With the exception of castor oil and croton oil, fatty oils are nearly insoluble in cold alcohol. They dissolve readily, however, in ether, carbon disulphide, chloroform, benzol, petroleum benzin, amyl alcohol, acetone, and oil of turpentine, and freely mix with one another, as well as with resins and volatile oils. They are all lighter than water, their specific gravities ranging from 0.879 to 0.968. Fatty oils are not volatile as such, but can be heated to boiling (at about 315¡ C., or 600¡ F.) whereby decomposition takes place, acrid fumes of acrolein (see Glycerin) being evolved, together with carbonic acid gas, some volatile organic acids and inflammable hydrocarbons. Upon condensing the vapors, an empyreumatic oil is obtained. When in the state of vapor, fixed oils take fire upon the approach of an ignited body; the products of combustion are water and carbonic acid gas. As to their chemical nature, most fatty oils are mixtures of salts of the trivalent alcohol glycerin (C3H5[OH]3), with the saturated palmitic (C16H32O2) and stearic acids (C18H36O2), both higher homologues of acetic acid, of the general formula CnH2nO2, and the unsaturated oleic acid (C18H34O2), which represents the series CnH2n-2O2. The salts are called glycerin esters, or glycerides, and are
[biofuel] Acrolein 2
Regarding the message I just sent: At: http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0624.htm (A Chemical safety data sheet) it sais the glycerin decomposes below it«s boiling point at 171¼C. (For pure glyc). Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] acrolein
I«m a bit concerned with the glycerin/acrolein topic (glycerin thermally decomposes into this dangerous substance). I found little on this topic (Keith and Todd) in the archives. From a not-so-thorough search in google, acrolein forms when heating Glycerol to 290¼C, but that happens when the glycerin is pure. The water/glyc mixture boils at a lower temp, near 164 ¼C. A chemical engineer told me today that the dark brown colour in the glyc could have to do with the formation of acrolein (even at 60¼C). I want to run an IR spectrography on my glyc to see if that«s so. Besides, I thought acrolein was a gas. But still, it«s a carcinogenic substance you don«t want to mess with. Does anyone know more about the subject? I am also concerned with the fact some of you are using it as a detergent/grease remover. I«d suppose it will contain at least traces of methanol, methoxide, maybe even acrolein, neither of which you want on your hands. Please let me know what you think. Best to you all, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Acrolein («twas illegible)
I«m a bit concerned with the glycerin/acrolein topic (glycerin thermally decomposes into this dangerous substance). I found little on this topic (Keith and Todd) in the archives. From a not-so-thorough search in google, acrolein forms when heating Glycerol to 290¼C, but that happens when the glycerin is pure. The water/glyc mixture boils at a lower temp, near 164 ¼C. A chemical engineer told me today that the dark brown colour in the glyc could have to do with the formation of acrolein (even at 60¼C). I want to run an IR spectrography on my glyc to see if that«s so. Besides, I thought acrolein was a gas. But still, it«s a carcinogenic substance you don«t want to mess with. Does anyone know more about the subject? I am also concerned with the fact some of you are using it as a detergent/grease remover. I«d suppose it will contain at least traces of methanol, methoxide, maybe even acrolein, neither of which you want on your hands. Please let me know what you think. Best to you all, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Stoichiometric values (to Ken from Phillipines)
Hi Ken, I«ve had my doubts on the stoichiometric values since a beginning (not that they were wrong or anything, I was just curious), but I never had the tiem to write it down on paper. We could briefly try it here, assuming you«ve got the percentages of FA in coconut oil is as you«ve described: The corresponding fatty acids are: 46% C12H24O 18% C14H28O 10% C16H32O 4% C18H36O 6% C18H34O But for each FA chain on the glyceol, there is one H lost in the esterification, together with the OH group of the glycerin. We«ll assume no FFA. So the ester chain in the triglicerid will be as follows: 46% C12H23O = 183 g 18% C14H27O = 211 g 10% C16H31O = 239 g 4% C18H35O = 267 g 6% C18H33O = 261 g And the glycerol bit will weigh: CH2-CH-CH2 = 41 g I suppose we can the say that 1 Mole of WVO (Coconut) will have: 41g + (0.46x183 + 0.18x211 + 0.1x239 + 0.04x267 + 0.06x261) = 213.4 g Methanol weighs: CH3OH = 32 g/mol Glyc-R-R«-R«« --(CH3ONa)-- Glyc + ROCH3 + R«OCH3 + R««OCH3 + Na(+) But we could assume that one mole of WVO will require one mole of Methanol, as the methyl group in it is exactly what will join the FA in the transesterification So every 213.4g of WVO will require 32g of Methanol Coconut oil«s density at 20¼C is close to 0.919 g/ml (or so I read on the internet). So 213.4 g (1 mole) will equal 232.201 ml. On the other side, the density for methanol is 0.79, so 32g of methanol represent 40.5063 ml. So, 40.5063 ml in 232.201 ml represent 17.44 The proposed value (M. Pelly«s recipe) is 20% by volume. The value we got to here is 17.44% That«s only 2.56% shorter than the proposed value. The 20% value is useful to push the reaction towards the products side, anyway, you should be able to use a minimum of 17.4% methanol (in volume) to transesterify your WVO. I use sunflower oil, and my % is even lower (close to 11% in vol). Hope to have been of help. Best wishes, Christian Lenoir - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 12:39 PM Subject: Re: Stoichiometric Balance of methanol vs glycerine Hello Christian, First of all i want to thank you for your posts. They have been very helpful and informative. I am Ken and from the Philippines. I have been making BD for a year now thanks to this group. I use what i make because the price of BD is not competitive to regular diesel. I was checking the stoichiometric balance of methanol to glycerine when i felt something might be wrong and hope maybe you can clear it up for me. In our reaction we need 3 moles of methanol to every mole of glycerine to be replaced right? or 1 mole of methanol for every mole of fatty acid(be it lauric, myristic, stearic et al). I use coconut oil and the data for coconut oil is as follows C12:0 - 46% C14:0 - 18% C16:0 - 10% C18:0 - 4% C18:1 - 6% in short there is around 1.74 moles of glycerine for every 1000 grams of refined coconut oil. From here i would need 5.22 moles of methanol or 210 ml of methanol. The receipe in journey to forever says to use 200 ml of methanol for every 1000 ml of oil and they say that has alot of excess already. So this is my dilema, are my calculations wrong. I wonder how Keith and the rest came up with the prescribed volume for methanol. Thanks and Best Regards Ken __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Stoichiometric values (to Ken from Phillipines)
I ca«t be too sure on my answer, but wouldn«t it bee too dense? First of all, it wouldn«t be a transesterification, as the transesterification implies: ROH + R«COOR«« -- R««OH + R«COOR i.e., switching the carbon chains between an ester and an alcohol. You«d be esterifying the glycerin: C3H5(OH)3 + RCOOH -- C3H5(OCOR)3 + H2O Thus forming a triglicerid, the main constituent of vegetable oils, only that in vegetable oils the fatty acid chains have 14, 16, 18, 20, (etc) carbons, plus insaturations. Acetic acid cas only 2 carbons, and would yield: C3H5(OCOCH3)3 (triacetato de glicerilo, in spanish) I suppose this substance would have properties similar to oils in some aspects, but it lacks double bonds, so it would probably be solid. The fatty acid chains extend in a linear pattern, evidently in zig-zag, due to the tetrahedic bonds, so these molecules fit weel into one another. The double bonds in oils make the carbon chains crooked, so molecules have a harder time regrouping into an ordered consistency (solid state). Therefore, more insaturations usually make it more difficult for the molecules to pack. So, the bottom line is: more insaturations reduce the fusion point of greases oils. No saturations: /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\COOH The structure you propose: CH2/\/\ CH/\/\ CH2/\/\ Seems to me would solid or of difficult flow. (I«m not an expert in this). Anyway, don«t let these words bring down your morale. I«m not an expert, as I«ve said, and it would be good to try this out to see what the results are. All the best, Christian - Original Message - From: Mccall Tom WP US [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 2:09 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Stoichiometric values (to Ken from Phillipines) I there any way to transesterfy the Glycerin? It has 3 -OH groups I would think that you could esterfy with Acetic acid. If you esterfied all 3 -OH groups you would have a C9 hydrocarbon with 6 oxygens. Talk about an oxygenated fuel. I think that a C-9 is close to the size of gasoline fuels...? Could this be a oxygenated additive for gasoline engines. Maybe 3-5% Biodiesal would also help to lower emissions and make up for the BTU loss when you add the esterfied glycerin to the tank. Just thinking (typing) out loud. T -Original Message- From: Christian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 10:43 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Stoichiometric values (to Ken from Phillipines) Hi Ken, I«ve had my doubts on the stoichiometric values since a beginning (not that they were wrong or anything, I was just curious), but I never had the tiem to write it down on paper. We could briefly try it here, assuming you«ve got the percentages of FA in coconut oil is as you«ve described: The corresponding fatty acids are: 46% C12H24O 18% C14H28O 10% C16H32O 4% C18H36O 6% C18H34O But for each FA chain on the glyceol, there is one H lost in the esterification, together with the OH group of the glycerin. We«ll assume no FFA. So the ester chain in the triglicerid will be as follows: 46% C12H23O = 183 g 18% C14H27O = 211 g 10% C16H31O = 239 g 4% C18H35O = 267 g 6% C18H33O = 261 g And the glycerol bit will weigh: CH2-CH-CH2 = 41 g I suppose we can the say that 1 Mole of WVO (Coconut) will have: 41g + (0.46x183 + 0.18x211 + 0.1x239 + 0.04x267 + 0.06x261) = 213.4 g Methanol weighs: CH3OH = 32 g/mol Glyc-R-R«-R«« --(CH3ONa)-- Glyc + ROCH3 + R«OCH3 + R««OCH3 + Na(+) But we could assume that one mole of WVO will require one mole of Methanol, as the methyl group in it is exactly what will join the FA in the transesterification So every 213.4g of WVO will require 32g of Methanol Coconut oil«s density at 20¼C is close to 0.919 g/ml (or so I read on the internet). So 213.4 g (1 mole) will equal 232.201 ml. On the other side, the density for methanol is 0.79, so 32g of methanol represent 40.5063 ml. So, 40.5063 ml in 232.201 ml represent 17.44 The proposed value (M. Pelly«s recipe) is 20% by volume. The value we got to here is 17.44% That«s only 2.56% shorter than the proposed value. The 20% value is useful to push the reaction towards the products side, anyway, you should be able to use a minimum of 17.4% methanol (in volume) to transesterify your WVO. I use sunflower oil, and my % is even lower (close to 11% in vol). Hope to have been of help. Best wishes, Christian Lenoir - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 12:39 PM Subject: Re: Stoichiometric Balance of methanol vs glycerine Hello Christian, First of all i want to thank you for your posts. They have been very helpful and informative. I am Ken and from the Philippines. I have been making BD for a year now thanks to this group. I use what i make because the price of BD is not competitive to regular diesel. I was checking the stoichiometric balance of methanol to glycerine when i felt something
[biofuel] acetic acid + glycerin (to T)
For those who wondered, I ran the esterification product from glyc + acetic acid (triacetato de glicerilo, in spanish.. I suppose in Eng it«s something like glycerin triacetate), and the program calculated a melting point of 29.53 ¼C, and a boiling point of 263.38 ¼C. That would make it solid at room temp, probably making it difficult to use as a fuel additive. Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Stoichiometric values
I can«t send HTML on this list, please make a list of those who would want the mentioned table of FA content of different oils, and I«ll send it to your personal email (off-list) please send your request (for this particular table) to [EMAIL PROTECTED] today. Regards, Christian snip Could we figure out a table for the most common oils? Say soy, rapeseed/canola, corn, sunflower, cottonseed, peanut, olive, coconut, palm, tallow. That would be really useful. We'd need to know the FA breakdown of each, SG etc. There are some figures here for the main __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] on line.
Psicologia del CNR: Siglato l'accordo per la realizzazione di simulazioni ludico-didattiche basate su metodi sviluppati in campi di ricerca d'avanguardia quali l'intelligenza artificiale, le scienze cognitive, i sistemi neurali artificiali e gli algoritmi genetici. Tali simulazioni saranno utilizzate in previsione dello sviluppo di prodotti multimediali per le comunit virtuali, la formazione a distanza, l'intrattenimento, l'edutainment. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Got th job (to Keith... and others too)
Dear Keith, I«m just writing to let you know I was given the job in the U.S., at Environmental Engineering Technology, so if the US Consulate grants me the H-1b visa, I«ll be able to go and live over there in Virginia in a couple of months, after the firm (and it«s law office) has completed all the paperwork. I«m a bit off track with the biofuels list, though I«m still receiving it at home. I«ve had little time to go through it, though, given I«ve been arranging the job issue (I travelled to the US for the interview last weekend) and with my graduation and everything. I plant to keep in touch from time to time, as I have come to consider all you guys as very good friends. Anyway, I«m not sure if I«ll be able to continue as an active member, though I«ll check in from time to time. Special thanks to all of you, but specially to Keith, Todd, Steve, Dana, Ken, Craig and those who helped me with my first steps in the biodiesel field. Thanks for your constant support, and keep up the work the biofuels list and the journey to forever page are two things you should really be proud of, and I wish you the best of luck in those projects, as your effort has enlightened and continues to enlighten the path of those who seek to deepen their knowledge in this promising field. Your role as a mentor and leader I value much, and I sincerely wish you all the best. Sincerely, Christian Lenoir Buenos Aires, Argentina member since mid 2001 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- 4 DVDs Free +sp Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] PHOTOS!!!! (BD, of course)
Too see the photos of my first biodiesel batches, please visit: http://www.clenoir.com/bd.htm Best to you all, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Biofuel] Japan Doubles Fukushima Radiation Leak Estimate
Midori, This is so sad. I spent 4 years in Hokkaido as a masters student at Otaru University of Commerce. I spent one month traveling throughout Japan in the Spring of 1999. It is hard to believe the damage inflicted. Christian On Jun 08, 2011, at 07:59 AM, Midori Hiraga (JTF) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all, 2011/6/8 Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/06/07-1 According to the latest estimates, 770,000 terabequerels - about 20% as much as the official estimate for Chernobyl - of radiation seeped from the plant in the week after the tsunami, more than double the initial estimate of 370,000. That's the amount only to the air. 770,000 terabequerels doesn't include the amount which has been leaking (or poured intentionally) into the ocean. Midori ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): biofuel@sustainablelists.org/'http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110608/cdceea72/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Call for Tax on Financial Deals to Fight Global Warming
Solution: Tax of 1 basis point on all bond, foreign exchange and commodity transactions in the primary (from the issuing entity) and secondary (transacted through a broker) markets. Anything more than 1 basis point would be more altruistic. Cheers, Christian On Jun 11, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/06/08-1 Published on Wednesday, June 8, 2011 by The Irish Times Call for Tax on Financial Deals to Fight Global Warming by Frank MacDonald A tax on international financial transactions could generate real funds immediately to help developing countries protect tropical rain forests and fight global warming, the latest round of climate talks in Bonn heard yesterday. Bolivian ambassador Pablo Solon, who called on all countries to adopt such a tax, complained that most of the $30 billion in fast-start finance pledged by developed nations at the Copenhagen climate summit in 2009 had not come through. Instead of countries re-branding aid as climate finance, he said, a tax on international financial transactions would be a mechanism that can generate real funds . . . to act immediately to address the protection of forests and fight climate change. Mr Solon also called for the Kyoto Protocol to be renewed at the Durban climate summit in December, on the basis that there was no time to negotiate new legally binding treaty aimed at cutting greenhouse gas emissions in developed countries. We cannot come out of South Africa with the targets we have now, as the UN Environment Programme has shown they will lead us to 4 degrees Celsius of global warming. We must have targets that limit temperature rise to between 1C and 1.5C to preserve life. More than 3,000 participants from 183 countries are attending the two-week session in Bonn, which is meant to lay the groundwork for Durban. But few believe that progress will be made on crunch issues such as a renewal of Kyoto, which expires next year. Last week carbon dioxide in the atmosphere reached the highest level ever recorded, at nearly 390 parts per million, and the International Energy Agency said emissions from energy generation in 2010 were also the highest ever - despite the recession. With carbon emissions at record highs, it's clear that policymakers are out of step with the speed of climate change in the real world, said Greenpeace's climate policy co-ordinator Tove Maria Ryding. [They] need to start delivering proven solutions. UN climate chief Christiana Figueres said at the opening session that governments have an unavoidable responsibility to make clear progress towards the 2011 climate objectives which they had agreed in at the Cancún climate conference last December. Governments lit a beacon in Cancún towards a low-emission world which is resilient to climate change. They committed themselves to a maximum global average temperature rise of 2 degrees Celsius, with further consideration of a 1.5 degree maximum. Now, more than ever, it is critical that all efforts are mobilised towards living up to this commitment, Ms Figueres said, adding that negotiators were working hard to provide clarity on the architecture of the future international climate regime to reduce emissions. Separately, 18 Greenpeace activists who scaled an Arctic oil rig off the coast of Greenland have been arrested. They were demanding that operators Cairn Energy reveal its plans to deal with potential oil spills. Cairn Energy had sought an injunction against Greenpeace protesting against its operations in the Arctic region. But when the matter came before a court in Amsterdam on Monday, the judge also asked the company to make its oil spill response plan public. A final ruling on the injunction application is due tomorrow. © 2011 The Irish Times ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): biofuel@sustainablelists.org/'http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110611/47b593b3/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Can anyone direct me to the four papers referenced in the NBB article here?
I am looking for the four full articles/presentations referenced in the footnotes: http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Lubricity.PDF Any additional, relevant articles appreciated. Christian Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Marc I launched our Biodiesel Co-op in Kentucky and ...
.. to the question, do community co-ops matter? the answer is: YES! Do Community Co-Ops Matter? RFS2 mandates biodiesel production, but local communities need a cooperative approach Eric Williams used to work as a civil engineer in a building owned by a farmer co-op that, among many things, made soy biodiesel. Today, Williams works in energy efficiency in Omaha and every Friday night he joins up with the members of his own co-op, architects, graduate students, financial consultants and anyone else interested in making biodiesel. “We realized that it is more effective to process the fuels then it would be for any of us to work alone,” Williams says. With the help of those architects and financial consultants, he formed the Omaha Biofuels Coop, a licensed producer-consumer operation that touts the motto: producing, using and promoting biofuels. Back in 2006 as a civil engineer, Williams says he also realized that even with large biodiesel production facilities scattered across the country, “there were very few options for cars in the area to use biodiesel.” Times have changed since 2006, and today the average driver has greater access to biodiesel than ever before (which, unfortunately in some cases, still isn’t that great). But, more gallons of available biodiesel haven’t put an end to stories like those of Williams and the Omaha Biofuels Coop. In fact, more biodiesel co-ops are meeting on Friday nights, sometimes on the loading dock of their industrial buildings, than ever before. For a nominal fee, co-op members can fill up their Volkswagen diesels, Ford F-250s or even their John Deeres, but don’t confuse their stories with a nice back-page feature in the Sunday Life section of the local newspaper. Biodiesel co-ops are doing their part in the continued growth of the industry one 5-gallon jug of waste vegetable oil (WVO) biodiesel at a time. If the 5 MMgy producers are working to provide an advanced biofuel for mass use, it’s the 5-gallon folks who are working to help the end-users understand why such a fuel is so special in the first place. Don’t believe it? Think about all the times someone you know, or have read about, has made a misinformed statement about a biofuel’s negative properties. Eric Williams speaks to people like that every day, and every day, he says, his co-op is growing. Keeping it Rural Matters Christian Thalacker wasn’t a civil engineer before he started the Louisville Biodiesel Cooperative, he was an energy consultant who bought and sold for a large wholesale energy company. And, unlike Williams, Thalacker doesn’t cater to urban drivers (although he would). Thalacker, along with co-founder Marc Verdi, is aiming to supply biodiesel and grow his cooperative by providing farmers, particularly family farmers, with biodiesel. His approach is to keep his fuel local, and help small cattle operations or horse ranchers in the region save a few dollars by purchasing biodiesel from his cooperative that he says will be priced lower than the going rate for petro diesel today “You look at all the pressures that family farms have, and family ranchers have,” he says, “and $4 petrodiesel seems insane.” Thalacker estimates that the average local farmer in his area uses roughly 3,000 gallons of fuel per season. Although his co-op is rather new, it started in November, he says that farmers in his area (about 70) would love to have biodiesel available and “as soon as it is ready,” he adds, “they are ready to buy.” The Louisville Biodiesel Cooperative offers up one of the greatest benefits of the growing number of co-ops across the country Their model of staying local, and being as green and transparent as possible is one that nearly every co-op is adopting in its own way, and is a positive medium to create a network of public and private relationships of businesses and consumers, all holding the same opinion of biodiesel. “There is a resonance with the restaurants,” he says of the places he collects the WVO used to produce his product. “There is a resonance with the big commercial-size kitchens,” a mutual feeling he says both parties believe in. Thalacker says he isn’t reinventing the wheel though, he’s simply trying to mimic the operational standards of arguably the most successful biodiesel co-op in the country, Piedmont Biofuels, a co-op he’s talked with several times. He’s also trying to take the same approach as people in places like Austin, Texas, or Chapel Hill, N.C., who he says are giving back to the restaurants that donate their WVO to the co-ops by performing as much marketing as possible for those establishments. While Thalacker does say he has to compete in his area with “the big players” who collect WVO for use as animal feed, he might be encouraged to know that people like John Campbell, vice president of government relations for Ag Processing Inc., an original player in the biodiesel industry, and the model of how
[Biofuel] Has anyone seen the 2010 B100 Biodiesel survey from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory?
Has anyone seen the 2010 B100 Biodiesel survey from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory? If so, please share the link: A few National Renewable Energy Lab documents video on Biodiesel going back to 2005 2011: nothing on B100 yet? B20: http://www.houston-cleancities.org/Clean%20Cities%20Pages/Coalition%20Events/4-27-2011/NREL.pdf 2010: ? 2009: B100 survey? Biodiesel status report: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/pdfs/bd_status_issues_final.pdf http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/npbf/pdfs/44833.pdf 2 NREL video presentations + 1 combined MB/Audi/VW/BMW/Bosch http://www.dieselforum.org/index.cfm?objectid=2FB6D266-AF06-11E0-ABD4000C296BA163 my take-away comment: NREL sees negligible differences performance-wise between ASTM-spec Biodiesel and petro-diesel versus Walter the Mercedes Benz spokesman pushing the urea-exhaust system while admitting quality of hydro-treated vegetable oil versus BP's Rich George talking about the fungible nature of biodiesel versus petro diesel blames the states' individual laws and UL not approving more than 5% use at retailers importance of ASTM spec fuel if big players can distribute biodiesel ... Most pipelines don't carry biodiesel = competes with jetfuel movement to put 100 parts per million of biodiesel with jetfuel ... slow movement to B5 expensive to have terminal with heated storage tanks and pipes to carry biodiesel 365 business as usual = splash blend 2008: B20 http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/npbf/pdfs/45184.pdf 2007: B100: http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy08osti/42787.pdf 2006: B100: http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy07osti/41549.pdf 2005: B100 survey? Effects of Biodiesel: http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/npbf/pdfs/38296.pdf -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110915/41f28b15/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Capitalism vs. the Climate - Naomi Klein
The Heartland Institute is a loud proud sponsor at various conferences (EUEC in Phoenix) news aggregators (epOverviews) ... Wish Stewart @ the Daily Show would make them a weekly feature. On Dec 11, 2011, at 1:01 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heartland Institute - SourceWatch http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute -- http://www.thenation.com/article/164497/capitalism-vs-climate Capitalism vs. the Climate Naomi Klein November 9, 2011 There is a question from a gentleman in the fourth row. He introduces himself as Richard Rothschild. He tells the crowd that he ran for county commissioner in Maryland's Carroll County because he had come to the conclusion that policies to combat global warming were actually an attack on middle-class American capitalism. His question for the panelists, gathered in a Washington, DC, Marriott Hotel in late June, is this: To what extent is this entire movement simply a green Trojan horse, whose belly is full with red Marxist socioeconomic doctrine? Here at the Heartland Institute's Sixth International Conference on Climate Change, the premier gathering for those dedicated to denying the overwhelming scientific consensus that human activity is warming the planet, this qualifies as a rhetorical question. Like asking a meeting of German central bankers if Greeks are untrustworthy. Still, the panelists aren't going to pass up an opportunity to tell the questioner just how right he is. Chris Horner, a senior fellow at the Competitive Enterprise Institute who specializes in harassing climate scientists with nuisance lawsuits and Freedom of Information fishing expeditions, angles the table mic over to his mouth. You can believe this is about the climate, he says darkly, and many people do, but it's not a reasonable belief. Horner, whose prematurely silver hair makes him look like a right-wing Anderson Cooper, likes to invoke Saul Alinsky: The issue isn't the issue. The issue, apparently, is that no free society would do to itself what this agenda requiresŠ. The first step to that is to remove these nagging freedoms that keep getting in the way. Claiming that climate change is a plot to steal American freedom is rather tame by Heartland standards. Over the course of this two-day conference, I will learn that Obama's campaign promise to support locally owned biofuels refineries was really about green communitarianism, akin to the Maoist scheme to put a pig iron furnace in everybody's backyard (the Cato Institute's Patrick Michaels). That climate change is a stalking horse for National Socialism (former Republican senator and retired astronaut Harrison Schmitt). And that environmentalists are like Aztec priests, sacrificing countless people to appease the gods and change the weather (Marc Morano, editor of the denialists' go-to website, ClimateDepot.com). Most of all, however, I will hear versions of the opinion expressed by the county commissioner in the fourth row: that climate change is a Trojan horse designed to abolish capitalism and replace it with some kind of eco-socialism. As conference speaker Larry Bell succinctly puts it in his new book Climate of Corruption, climate change has little to do with the state of the environment and much to do with shackling capitalism and transforming the American way of life in the interests of global wealth redistribution. Yes, sure, there is a pretense that the delegates' rejection of climate science is rooted in serious disagreement about the data. And the organizers go to some lengths to mimic credible scientific conferences, calling the gathering Restoring the Scientific Method and even adopting the organizational acronym ICCC, a mere one letter off from the world's leading authority on climate change, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). But the scientific theories presented here are old and long discredited. And no attempt is made to explain why each speaker seems to contradict the next. (Is there no warming, or is there warming but it's not a problem? And if there is no warming, then what's all this talk about sunspots causing temperatures to rise?) In truth, several members of the mostly elderly audience seem to doze off while the temperature graphs are projected. They come to life only when the rock stars of the movement take the stage-not the C-team scientists but the A-team ideological warriors like Morano and Horner. This is the true purpose of the gathering: providing a forum for die-hard denialists to collect the rhetorical baseball bats with which they will club environmentalists and climate scientists in the weeks and months to come. The talking points first tested here will jam the comment sections beneath every article and YouTube video that contains the phrase climate change or global warming. They
Re: [Biofuel] Capitalism vs. the Climate - Naomi Klein
Keith, As to why the Heartland Institute is a repeat sponsor at serious energy+ conferences and news aggregators, ask the Directors Owners of the two respective firms mentioned: 1. EUEC http://www.euec.com/directors.aspx 2. epOverviews http://www.epoverviews.com/about.php Best, Christian On Dec 13, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Christian The Heartland Institute is a loud proud sponsor at various conferences (EUEC in Phoenix) news aggregators (epOverviews) ... Wish Stewart @ the Daily Show would make them a weekly feature. Why? Best Keith On Dec 11, 2011, at 1:01 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heartland Institute - SourceWatch http://www.sourcewatch.org/indexphp?title=Heartland_Institute -- http://www.thenation.com/article/164497/capitalism-vs-climate Capitalism vs. the Climate Naomi Klein November 9, 2011 There is a question from a gentleman in the fourth row. He introduces himself as Richard Rothschild. He tells the crowd that he ran for county commissioner in Maryland's Carroll County because he had come to the conclusion that policies to combat global warming were actually an attack on middle-class American capitalism. His question for the panelists, gathered in a Washington, DC, Marriott Hotel in late June, is this: To what extent is this entire movement simply a green Trojan horse, whose belly is full with red Marxist socioeconomic doctrine? Here at the Heartland Institute's Sixth International Conference on Climate Change, the premier gathering for those dedicated to denying the overwhelming scientific consensus that human activity is warming the planet, this qualifies as a rhetorical question. Like asking a meeting of German central bankers if Greeks are untrustworthy. Still, the panelists aren't going to pass up an opportunity to tell the questioner just how right he is. Chris Horner, a senior fellow at the Competitive Enterprise Institute who specializes in harassing climate scientists with nuisance lawsuits and Freedom of Information fishing expeditions, angles the table mic over to his mouth. You can believe this is about the climate, he says darkly, and many people do, but it's not a reasonable belief. Horner, whose prematurely silver hair makes him look like a right-wing Anderson Cooper, likes to invoke Saul Alinsky: The issue isn't the issue. The issue, apparently, is that no free society would do to itself what this agenda requires·. The first step to that is to remove these nagging freedoms that keep getting in the way. Claiming that climate change is a plot to steal American freedom is rather tame by Heartland standards. Over the course of this two-day conference, I will learn that Obama's campaign promise to support locally owned biofuels refineries was really about green communitarianism, akin to the Maoist scheme to put a pig iron furnace in everybody's backyard (the Cato Institute's Patrick Michaels). That climate change is a stalking horse for National Socialism (former Republican senator and retired astronaut Harrison Schmitt). And that environmentalists are like Aztec priests, sacrificing countless people to appease the gods and change the weather (Marc Morano, editor of the denialists' go-to website, ClimateDepot.com). Most of all, however, I will hear versions of the opinion expressed by the county commissioner in the fourth row: that climate change is a Trojan horse designed to abolish capitalism and replace it with some kind of eco-socialism. As conference speaker Larry Bell succinctly puts it in his new book Climate of Corruption, climate change has little to do with the state of the environment and much to do with shackling capitalism and transforming the American way of life in the interests of global wealth redistribution. Yes, sure, there is a pretense that the delegates' rejection of climate science is rooted in serious disagreement about the data. And the organizers go to some lengths to mimic credible scientific conferences, calling the gathering Restoring the Scientific Method and even adopting the organizational acronym ICCC, a mere one letter off from the world's leading authority on climate change, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). But the scientific theories presented here are old and long discredited. And no attempt is made to explain why each speaker seems to contradict the next. (Is there no warming, or is there warming but it's not a problem? And if there is no warming, then what's all this talk about sunspots causing temperatures to rise?) In truth, several members of the mostly elderly audience seem to doze off while the temperature graphs are projected. They come to life only when the rock stars of the movement take the stage-not the C-team scientists but the A-team ideological warriors like Morano and Horner. This is the true purpose
Re: [Biofuel] Capitalism vs. the Climate - Naomi Klein
Well Keith, Dollars to donuts: Stewart @ the Daily Show (and other independent minded citizens like myself) find the militant we can piss in the soup, who cares! modus operandi of Heartland Institute guests, staff directors funny at best. Except, not really funny. Examples: 7/10 on the Militant-We-Can-Piss-in-the-Soup!-o-meter: http://blog.heartland.org/2011/12/coca-cola-playing-a-dangerous-game-by-cuddling-with-environmentalists/ 2/10 on the Militant-We-Can-Piss-in-the-Soup!-o-meter: http://blog.heartland.org/2011/12/getting-the-enron-story-straight/ 10/10 on the Militant-We-Can-Piss-in-the-Soup!-o-meter: http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2011/12/01/climate-change-weekly-climategate-2-reveals-more-destruction-evidence-s http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2011/12/09/climategate-conspirator-mann-plays-persecuted-victim I wish the Daily Show's Stewart would host the Heartland Institute's Managing Director James M. Taylor (http://heartland.org/james-m-taylor) and Science Director Jay Leher (http://heartland.org/jay-lehr) on the show ... A little light can go a long way. Christian On Dec 14, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, that's not what I asked. Wish Stewart @ the Daily Show would make them a weekly feature. Why? Best Keith Keith, As to why the Heartland Institute is a repeat sponsor at serious energy+ conferences and news aggregators, ask the Directors Owners of the two respective firms mentioned: 1. EUEC http://www.euec.com/directors.aspx 2. epOverviews http://www.epoverviews.com/about.php Best, Christian On Dec 13, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Christian The Heartland Institute is a loud proud sponsor at various conferences (EUEC in Phoenix) news aggregators (epOverviews) ... Wish Stewart @ the Daily Show would make them a weekly feature. Why? Best Keith On Dec 11, 2011, at 1:01 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heartland Institute - SourceWatch http://www.sourcewatch.org/indexphp?title=Heartland_Institute -- http://www.thenation.com/article/164497/capitalism-vs-climate Capitalism vs. the Climate Naomi Klein November 9, 2011 There is a question from a gentleman in the fourth row. He introduces himself as Richard Rothschild He tells the crowd that he ran for county commissioner in Maryland's Carroll County because he had come to the conclusion that policies to combat global warming were actually an attack on middle-class American capitalism. His question for the panelists, gathered in a Washington, DC, Marriott Hotel in late June, is this: To what extent is this entire movement simply a green Trojan horse, whose belly is full with red Marxist socioeconomic doctrine? Here at the Heartland Institute's Sixth International Conference on Climate Change, the premier gathering for those dedicated to denying the overwhelming scientific consensus that human activity is warming the planet, this qualifies as a rhetorical question. Like asking a meeting of German central bankers if Greeks are untrustworthy. Still, the panelists aren't going to pass up an opportunity to tell the questioner just how right he is. Chris Horner, a senior fellow at the Competitive Enterprise Institute who specializes in harassing climate scientists with nuisance lawsuits and Freedom of Information fishing expeditions, angles the table mic over to his mouth. You can believe this is about the climate, he says darkly, and many people do, but it's not a reasonable belief. Horner, whose prematurely silver hair makes him look like a right-wing Anderson Cooper, likes to invoke Saul Alinsky: The issue isn't the issue. The issue, apparently, is that no free society would do to itself what this agenda requires·. The first step to that is to remove these nagging freedoms that keep getting in the way. Claiming that climate change is a plot to steal American freedom is rather tame by Heartland standards. Over the course of this two-day conference, I will learn that Obama's campaign promise to support locally owned biofuels refineries was really about green communitarianism, akin to the Maoist scheme to put a pig iron furnace in everybody's backyard (the Cato Institute's Patrick Michaels). That climate change is a stalking horse for National Socialism (former Republican senator and retired astronaut Harrison Schmitt). And that environmentalists are like Aztec priests, sacrificing countless people to appease the gods and change the weather (Marc Morano, editor of the denialists' go-to website, ClimateDepot.com). Most of all, however, I will hear versions of the opinion expressed by the county commissioner in the fourth row: that climate change is a Trojan horse designed to abolish capitalism and replace it with some kind of eco-socialism. As conference speaker Larry Bell succinctly puts it in his new book Climate of Corruption, climate
Re: [Biofuel] Capitalism vs. the Climate - Naomi Klein
Well Keith, Dollars to donuts: Stewart @ the Daily Show (and other independent minded citizens like myself) find the militant we can piss in the soup, who cares! modus operandi of Heartland Institute guests, staff directors funny at best. Except, not really funny. Examples: 7/10 on the Militant-We-Can-Piss-in-the-Soup!-o-meter: http://blog.heartland.org/2011/12/coca-cola-playing-a-dangerous-game-by-cuddling-with-environmentalists/ 2/10 on the Militant-We-Can-Piss-in-the-Soup!-o-meter: http://blog.heartland.org/2011/12/getting-the-enron-story-straight/ 10/10 on the Militant-We-Can-Piss-in-the-Soup!-o-meter: http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2011/12/01/climate-change-weekly-climategate-2-reveals-more-destruction-evidence-s http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2011/12/09/climategate-conspirator-mann-plays-persecuted-victim I wish the Daily Show's Stewart would have the Heartland Institute's Managing Director James M. Taylor (http://heartland.org/james-m-taylor) and Science Director Jay Leher (http://heartland.org/jay-lehr) on the show ... A little light can go a long way. Christian On Dec 14, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, that's not what I asked. Wish Stewart @ the Daily Show would make them a weekly feature. Why? Best Keith -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20111214/272965ac/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Capitalism vs. the Climate - Naomi Klein
Hi Keith, You don't sound ratty. Like Mark Twain? Then you'll love John Stewart @ the Daily Show. Extended interviews available for free online: http://www.thedailyshow.com/extended-interviews Examples Cheers, Christian On Dec 14, 2011, at 12:24 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry Christian, I didn't mean to sound ratty. I just don't get it, I don't know anything about Stewart @ the Daily Show. How would it help? By the way: http://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=Heartland+Institutel=sustainablelorgbiofuel%40sustainablelists.org 55 hits at the List archives for Heartland Institute. Best Keith No, that's not what I asked. Wish Stewart @ the Daily Show would make them a weekly feature. Why? Best Keith Keith, As to why the Heartland Institute is a repeat sponsor at serious energy+ conferences and news aggregators, ask the Directors Owners of the two respective firms mentioned: 1. EUEC http://www.euec.com/directors.aspx 2. epOverviews http://www.epoverviews.com/about.php Best, Christian On Dec 13, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Christian The Heartland Institute is a loud proud sponsor at various conferences (EUEC in Phoenix) news aggregators (epOverviews) ... Wish Stewart @ the Daily Show would make them a weekly feature. Why? Best Keith On Dec 11, 2011, at 1:01 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heartland Institute - SourceWatch http://www.sourcewatch.org/indexphp?title=Heartland_Institute -- http://www.thenation.com/article/164497/capitalism-vs-climate Capitalism vs. the Climate Naomi Klein November 9, 2011 There is a question from a gentleman in the fourth row. He introduces himself as Richard Rothschild He tells the crowd that he ran for county commissioner in Maryland's Carroll County because he had come to the conclusion that policies to combat global warming were actually an attack on middle-class American capitalism. His question for the panelists, gathered in a Washington, DC, Marriott Hotel in late June, is this: To what extent is this entire movement simply a green Trojan horse, whose belly is full with red Marxist socioeconomic doctrine? Here at the Heartland Institute's Sixth International Conference on Climate Change, the premier gathering for those dedicated to denying the overwhelming scientific consensus that human activity is warming the planet, this qualifies as a rhetorical question. Like asking a meeting of German central bankers if Greeks are untrustworthy. Still, the panelists aren't going to pass up an opportunity to tell the questioner just how right he is. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): biofuel@sustainablelists.org/'http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20111214/07a551bd/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Capitalism vs. the Climate - Naomi Klein
Keith, To better understand the companies people that the Heartland Institute thinks their message resonates with, the attached PDF from the upcoming EUEC (Energy, Utility Environment Conference) conference may be helpful. There is also a copy of the PDF stored on Google Documents: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B83-0weSlvJvYzVlMzYxMWMtYjIzMi00MzIzLWE4ZTctMTQxMmU5YmU4OTRh The Heartland Institute will be speaking as a conference co-sponsor (see below). Some of the session titles include: REDUCING THE CARBON FOOTPRINT IN THE AMERICAS: IS IT WORTH THE COST? James Taylor, Senior Fellow, Environment Policy, The Heartland Institute AIR QUALITY REGULATORY CHALLENGES FOR POWER GENERATORS IN 2012 UPDATE TO UNITS AT RISK FOR RETIREMENT IN PJM AS A RESULT OF EPA REGULATION WHAT ABOUT THE NEIGHBORS? ENVIRONMENTAL NUISANCE CLAIMS AND AIR QUALITY COMPLIANCE IMPACT OF SOLID WASTE REGULATION ON ALTERNATIVE FUEL NO. 6 OIL USE UNDER THE EGU MACT RULE6 OIL USE UNDER THE EGU MACT RULE FEDERAL GHG REGULATION: IMPLICATIONS FOR BUSINESS RECENT TRENDS IN EPA AND ACTIVIST GROUP AIR PERMIT CHALLENGE IMPLICATIONS OF EPA’S PROPOSED CLEAN WATER ACT 316(B) REGULATIONS ON THE POWER INDUSTRY THE FUTURE OF FLYASH AS A CEMENTITIOUS MATERIAL ENSURING OPTIMAL COMPLIANCE WITH FUTURE MERCURY REGULATIONS CARBON TAX OR “CAP-AND-TRADE” SYSTEMS ITS EFFECT ON U S. REFINING MARKETING THE CONTINUING SHALE GAS STAMPEDE SPILLS, SINS STARBUCKS: HOW WE DESIGNED OUR CITIES AROUND OILS, SINS STARBUCKS BRINGING ENERGY AND SUSTAINABILITY REPORTING INTO THE 21ST CENTURY NUCLEAR POWER IN A POST-FUKUSHIMA WORLD Cheers, Christian On Dec 13, 2011, at 06:56 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Christian The Heartland Institute is a loud proud sponsor at various conferences (EUEC in Phoenix) news aggregators (epOverviews) ... Wish Stewart @ the Daily Show would make them a weekly feature. Why? Best Keith On Dec 11, 2011, at 1:01 PM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heartland Institute - SourceWatch http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Heartland_Institute -- http://www.thenation.com/article/164497/capitalism-vs-climate Capitalism vs. the Climate Naomi Klein November 9, 2011 There is a question from a gentleman in the fourth row. He introduces himself as Richard Rothschild. He tells the crowd that he ran for county commissioner in Maryland's Carroll County because he had come to the conclusion that policies to combat global warming were actually an attack on middle-class American capitalism. His question for the panelists, gathered in a Washington, DC, Marriott Hotel in late June, is this: To what extent is this entire movement simply a green Trojan horse, whose belly is full with red Marxist socioeconomic doctrine? Here at the Heartland Institute's Sixth International Conference on Climate Change, the premier gathering for those dedicated to denying the overwhelming scientific consensus that human activity is warming the planet, this qualifies as a rhetorical question. Like asking a meeting of German central bankers if Greeks are untrustworthy. Still, the panelists aren't going to pass up an opportunity to tell the questioner just how right he is. Chris Horner, a senior fellow at the Competitive Enterprise Institute who specializes in harassing climate scientists with nuisance lawsuits and Freedom of Information fishing expeditions, angles the table mic over to his mouth. You can believe this is about the climate, he says darkly, and many people do, but it's not a reasonable belief. Horner, whose prematurely silver hair makes him look like a right-wing Anderson Cooper, likes to invoke Saul Alinsky: The issue isn't the issue. The issue, apparently, is that no free society would do to itself what this agenda requires· The first step to that is to remove these nagging freedoms that keep getting in the way. Claiming that climate change is a plot to steal American freedom is rather tame by Heartland standards. Over the course of this two-day conference, I will learn that Obama's campaign promise to support locally owned biofuels refineries was really about green communitarianism, akin to the Maoist scheme to put a pig iron furnace in everybody's backyard (the Cato Institute's Patrick Michaels). That climate change is a stalking horse for National Socialism (former Republican senator and retired astronaut Harrison Schmitt). And that environmentalists are like Aztec priests, sacrificing countless people to appease the gods and change the weather (Marc Morano, editor of the denialists' go-to website, ClimateDepot.com). Most of all, however, I will hear versions of the opinion expressed by the county commissioner in the fourth row: that climate change is a Trojan horse designed to abolish capitalism and replace it with some kind of eco-socialism. As conference speaker Larry Bell succinctly puts it in his new book Climate of Corruption, climate
