Re: Stus-List 33-2 question where does the hose in the bottom of the ice box drain to?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

That is what we did on our old C 27 as well.  Keep the cooler/fridge water 
out of the bilge!  You never know what might end up being washed down the hose, 
and you sure don't want stuff rotting down in the bilge.  Ewww
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Dave S via CnC-List 
 To: doug.we...@rogers.com; C Stus List  
Cc: Dave S 
 Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 7:20 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List 33-2 question where does the hose in the bottom of the 
ice box drain to?
   
Windstar has a beckson siphon mate pump mounted below the sink.  The ice box 
drain is connected to this and the pump discharge hose can be placed in the 
sink to pump the icebox almost dry.  When not in use it is coiled up below the 
sink.
Dave



- Forwarded message --
From: Doug Welch 
To: "CC List" 
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2017 23:06:00 + (UTC)
Subject: Stus-List 33-2 question where does the hose in the bottom of the ice 
box drain to?
ours seems to be clogged and I couldn't figure out how to get to it to unclog
thanks in advance
cheers doug,celtic knot 33-2 c/b 
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Re: Stus-List Westerbeke 33 oil burn

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

On my old atomic 4 I put a tee in at the oil pressure sender, and screwed in a 
standard pressure gauge.  I too, wondered about the accuracy of the gauge.  On 
the Atomic 4, the oil pressure is adjustable, and that allowed me to tune the 
oil pressure to spec.  

I agree that 75 psi is too high, nearly twice as high as expected, and if it 
really is that high, that might be driving the oil usage.  I would try putting 
a gauge in as a test and go from there.
Kindest Regards, 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Bill Dakin via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Bill Dakin 
 Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 10:12 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Westerbeke 33 oil burn
   
The gauge should be replaced so that you have confidence in it at all rpm's and 
temps.  Few engines should be that high.

Bill Dakin

> On Jun 4, 2017, at 8:08 PM, David Castor via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Also, FWIW, my oil pressure gauge reads about 75 psi.  The surveyor thought 
> that was too high, but I have no idea on the accuracy of the gauge.  My 
> mechanic didn't seem 

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Stus-List Yanmar 3JH2E leak around water pump impeller cover

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello,
I replaced the impeller on a Yanmar 3JH2E about a month ago, and I was checking 
over the engine last weekend and noticed some wetness coming through around the 
impeller cover.  I tightened the cover bolts (they were not really loose), and 
the leak still continues.  When I replaced the impeller, I also replaced the 
o-ring, so that should not be the issue.  That said, the old o-ring had a tear 
(the cover was leaking, though more so then).  The face of the water pump was 
also a little rough, presumably from people prying  with angled needle nose 
pliers in the process of removing the old impeller.  That said, the cover 
itself was smooth, and the groove for the o-ring was fine as well. 

I personally don't like the idea of relying on Yanmar's very thin o-ring for 
sealing something that is below the water line.  I am thinking about getting 
some thin cork gasket material, and cutting a proper gasket, applying teflon 
grease to it, and using a gasket instead.
Is this a bad idea?
By the way, our boat is a 1994 C 37/40+, and the way the engine is mounted in 
the boat, it is nearly impossible to get to the bolts to remove the water pump, 
and even removing the starter is not exactly a fun job, again due to poor 
access to mounting bolts. 

Thanks for your insights! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Stus-List Lewmar Coastline Hatch 70 Leak - Guidance Please?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
Our '94 C 37/40+ leaks a little bit through the aft center of our Lewmar 
Coastline Hatch.  I think the problem is the seal, having reattached 2 out of 3 
broken friction levers and tightening down the screws going through the 
plexiglass, and not seeing it leaking between the frame and the deck opening.   
 

Our little hatches don't leak at all, and they too, mostly had broken friction 
levers and attachments (makes me wonder what the prior owner was doing).  I 
have friction latches coming, and they are easily found here in the states.  

I tried to order the seal, but the only place that supposedly had it in stock 
turned out they didn't have it, and the seal has to come all the way from 
England and they're saying it will be 4 weeks or more.  It seems like no one 
really ends up having to replace the seals.
Can anyone give me guidance as to something I might be missing?  Is Lewmar the 
only source for those seals?  Is there some way to, for example, reinforce the 
seal to improve its sealing ability?
It's not the money, its the availability of the part that's driving me crazy.  

Thanks for your help, 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Butyl tape or is there something better?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Yes, Butyl is ( in many people's) opinion still the best.  What you are 
probably seeing is that even after decades, butyl sealer still remains pliable. 
 Bed-It really seems to be the best, having used RV and black windshield butyl 
tapes.

Kindest Regards,

Bruce
847.404.5092

Please forgive any typos as this was sent from my iPhone.

> On May 8, 2017, at 5:02 PM, Indigo via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> I currently have the hood (if that's the correct term) removed from my 
> sliding companionway hatch, and cleaned up ready for replacement. Clearly the 
> original sealer was butyl.Is butyl tape still considered the best for 
> this job (and if so which brand - if all butyl is not equal). 
> 
> Also, the hood was secured with s/s screws. Assuming there is reasonable 
> access (CandC 35III) should I consider using s/s bolts with nuts?
> 
> All advice gratefully received!
> 
> --
> Jonathan
> Indigo C 35III
> SOUTHPORT CT
> 
> ___
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> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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Re: Stus-List Sail advice for C in general

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Just my $.02 worth, and for a different C  We had a C 27 MKIII (which is 
the taller rig) on Lake Michigan for 16 great years.  The boat came with a 100 
and a 150.  We cruise, rather than race, but I always liked tweaking for speed. 
 So, for summer sailing on Lake Michigan where decent sailing ran when the 
winds are between 9 - 15 kts and 12 is ideal, it was really easy to overpower 
the boat with the 150.  And, I really felt the loss of pointing ability.  The 
100 pointed better, but the closer the wind got to 9, I really felt the boat 
slow down.  

I had a 120 made, and loved it.  I rarely felt like the 150 would have gotten 
me going much faster, the boat still pointed well, and I pretty consistently 
sailed at 6.4 knots and on a good day could maintain sustained 6.9 - 7.1 on a 
beam reach (apparent).  

Those were hanked on sails, so rolling it up wasn't an option.  We did, however 
keep the jib hanked on in a long bag hanging on the lifelines on the bow for 
quick deployment.

Once I put the 120 on, I never looked back, and never changed the sails again.
Just my (albeit lazy) approach.
Kindest Regards, 

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Kurt Heckert via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Kurt Heckert 
 Sent: Monday, May 1, 2017 8:57 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Sail advice for C in general
   
1 question, what wind conditions are you sailing in? It makes a difference.

Kurt  Heckert
C 35 mk II
Heart & Soul


On Mon, 5/1/17, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  wrote:

 Subject: Re: Stus-List Sail advice for C in general
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
 Cc: "Joel Aronson" 
 Date: Monday, May 1, 2017, 3:25 PM
 
 My 35/3
 was up to a knot faster with a 155 over a 135 in 6-8 knots
 of wind.  I would never cruise with that sail!  If I were
 building a cruising jib for it I would probably go with a
 120.
 Fee advice.  You get
 what you pay for!
 Joel
 On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 2:58
 PM, bushmark4--- via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 
 Alan, I am glad to hear you do
 well with the 105; I have always heard that our boats get
 their power from the headsail, and was thus reluctant to go
 below a 130; however, if I understand your experience, you
 do as well with a smaller headsail as with a larger one.
    I notice most, if not all of the newer designs have
 very large mains with oversize roach area...have you had to
 do anything to the main?
 
 Another area I have wondered about is if he boat could be
 sailed with the headsail only?  Would you be able to
 develop enough power, and able to steer the boat easily with
 a small headsail?
 
 
 
  thanks
 
 
 
 
 
 Richard
 
 
 
 s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596;
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Richard N. Bush 
 
 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
 
 Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
 
 502-584-7255
 
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 -Original
 Message-
 
 From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
 
 To: C 
 
 Cc: ALAN BERGEN 
 
 Sent: Mon, May 1, 2017 2:33 pm
 
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Sail advice for 35
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Joe:
 
 
 
 
 When I first got my boat, I raced with a 155.  It kept
 back-winding the main, so I tried using a 135  with better
 results.  I gained six seconds in handicap, and there was
 no noticeable reduction in speed.  Then I tried racing with
 a 105.  I gained another three seconds; I sail just as
 fast, and I point five degrees higher.  In fact, I point
 higher than everyone else in my fleet, and I get to the
 windward mark sooner than the rest of the fleet.  The crew
 can tack faster, and in light air, the sail won't flap
 around like larger sails will.
 
 
 
 
 Alan Bergen
 
 
 35 Mk III Thirsty
 
 
 Rose City YC
 
 
 Portland, OR
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 __
 _
 
 
 
 This list is supported by the generous donations of our
 members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our
 costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/
 stumurray
 
 
 
 All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 
 Joel 
 301 541 8551
 ___
 
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 generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a
 contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 
 All Contributions are greatly
 appreciated!
 

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Stus-List For those of you with Lewmar hatches - What I learned...

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
We had the Lewmar #70 (I still think it is a Coastline, but could not verify it 
for sure) bow hatch leaking on our 1994 37/40+.  I had looked at it a couple 
weeks ago, and felt pretty comfortable it wasn't leaking between the hatch and 
the deck, and started assuming it was being caused by the seal/weatherstrip.  I 
had tried to order a new one, to no avail - no one had one in stock in the U.S. 
  Which made me realize that they probably don't fail very often.  So, back to 
the boat to water test it with my wife.  There it was, seeming to be leaking 
through the hinge.  

What it was really caused by were the rivets that held the friction lever to 
the frame.  In the end, as I didn't have rivets handy, I drilled out the old 
ones and tapped threads for an allen head screw (properly lubricated, of 
course).  And, for good measure, I put butyl tape between the friction lever 
attachment and the frame.  Voila!  $2 in screws instead of a $50+ seal that 
wouldn't have fixed it anyway!

Lesson learned - don't assume (I keep having to re-learn that lesson)
Hope someone finds this to be helpful, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List 33-2 question where does the hose in the bottom of the ice box drain to?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

By the way, our new (to us) 37/40+ has a small electric pump wired to a 12v. 
rocker switch near the sink.  In our case, the pump draws the water from the 
refrigerator and pumps it out a bent stainless tube directed into the sink.  I 
replaced the pump (which had died) with a cheap camper version rather than the 
"marine" one.  The cost was about $25.00.  It is really nice to be able to flip 
a switch vs. our old version of manually pumping the cooler in our previous C 
27, which, on a particularly warm and active weekend in Chicago could result in 
3 gallons or so of water.  

That said, on our C 27, we decided NOT to plumb the drain directly into the 
sink drain, as an aggressive sail could result in water flowing into the 
cooler.  

So, consider the heel of the boat before tying into the sink drain.
Just my $.02 worth, 

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Lee Rosenbaum via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Lee Rosenbaum 
 Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 3:38 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List 33-2 question where does the hose in the bottom of the 
ice box drain to?
   

On my '85 33-2 we have the ice box drain connected to the foot pump under the 
sink.

This way we can just pump the water out of the ice box into the sink when 
needed.
We have two foot pumps: 1) for water from the water tank, 2) Water from ice box.
Lee RosenbaumKookaburra 1985 33-2Kenosha, WI 

-- -- --

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 18:04:38 +
From: Tim Sippel 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 33-2 question where does the hose in the bottom
        of the ice box drain to?
Message-ID:
        

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On my 85 , it drains into the bilge , it often clogged , I cut out an access 
panel and found the hose was about a foot longer than necessary and had a loop 
in it (wtf) once cut to proper length and loop removed , no issues .

Tim Sippel

Matico
33Mkii




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Stus-List An Irma story with a good ending

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I thought I would share our story about Irma:

As we prepared for Irma late last week, we went from “It looks like it’s going 
to miss us, but let’s prepare anyway”, to “this could be really bad, but we’ll 
be OK at home”, to evacuation in anticipation of a catastrophic hit.  In that 
process, we resigned ourselves to the idea that flooding and/or structural 
damage to the house plus the total loss of our boat was highly likely.  That 
realization was both sobering and enlightening.  We figured out we could 
prepare for an extended uncertain future and fit much of what was really 
important to us (other than Astralis, of course!) in one car, and we gained a 
lot of clarity as to what is, and is not really important to us.     Thankfully 
for us (though not for many here in Florida) Irma weakened dramatically after 
ravaging Marco Island about 3:30 PM and moved inland.  We were fortunate enough 
to be able to seek protection in a senior living facility where my wife works.  
As I helped my wife assist the resident senior citizens (many with memory & 
physical disabilities), we put on calm faces while we anxiously waited for 
nearly 12 hours, expecting Irma to devastate Tampa.  Then we watched as four 
things slowly happened:  
   
   - Irma took a path inland a bit, robbing it of warm moisture from the Gulf, 
and directing the eye away from Tampa
   - The storm sped up from about 8 mph to 12-14 mph, indicating the storm 
would not stay long, and its strength would dissipate
   - Sheering winds bought dry air in from the east, which by late in the 
evening could be seen as wrapping nearly all the way around the eye reducing 
the power of the hurricane
   - The winds dropped on the west/southwest side of the storm, virtually 
eliminated the destructive storm surge that had been predicted – Massive 
amounts of water had been sucked out of Tampa Bay, but the expected 8+ feet of 
storm surge didn’t materialize, and it returned without much fanfare
    The final chapter of this short story is that we got to Astralis, our 1994 
C 37/40+ yesterday, and found that she was floating nicely, the rudder had 
been jammed over from sitting on the sandy bottom but was otherwise OK, and we 
there was evidence of 2 previously unknown minor deck leaks over the stern 
berth.  Everything else was remarkably fine.  The marina had already replaced a 
torn-out lonesome post, and it was clear to us that had the storm hit much 
harder, things would have been very, very different. A little bit of further 
irony struck us as we realized that when we bought her on February 1st, she sat 
down in Marco Island.  Had we not moved her to Tampa, she would have likely 
been a total loss.

This was our first hurricane, having moved to Florida from Chicago only 2 years 
ago.  We had a chance to see, first hand, how communities pull together to 
prepare for hurricanes, hunker down and help ease each other’s fears as they 
grasp the idea of losing their homes and most prized possessions, and help 
clean up the aftermath.  Yet, our local damage is nothing like that incurred by 
so many others across the state.      Gratefully,  Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Gas solenoid

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi David,
The lighted switch under the sink turns on/off the solenoid.  So, you need 
power to it from your panel switch, and you need the switch on to allow the 
solenoid to turn on the whole system.  Interesting that it keeps clicking off 
sounds like a short.  

You might want to turn off the switch under the sink and see if that keeps the 
circuit breaker from tripping.  

Thankfully the solenoids are not only cheap, they're readily available - I 
would try an RV store if there is one nearby.  Much cheaper than "marine".  

Good luck! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
 To: CnC CnC discussion list  
Cc: davidakne...@gmail.com
 Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 8:35 AM
 Subject: Stus-List Gas solenoid
   
Sitting in mystic seaport this morning could not heat water ( bummer) because 
panel switch for propane kept clicking off. Solenoid replacement?  Looks pretty 
decrepit. Also what does lighted on/off gas switch under sink do?  

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Good point Michael, and it is a very easy job, as the mechanical pumps also 
fill a cup that is designed to retain a strainer.  So, immediately after the 
engine dies, one can go down and ease off the thumb screw and check for fuel in 
the bowl.  If there is an electric pump, one could remove the main jet or 
bottom bowl of the carb and check for fuel there.  Probably easier would be to 
simply remove the fuel line at the carb and see how much fuel is in the line.  
I like the idea of replacing the rubber fuel line out of pure proactive 
maintenance, however. 

I still suspect an ignition problem more than a fuel blockage.  The way to know 
is *how* the engine shuts off.  If it sputters to a stop, it's generally fuel.  
Chug-chug-chug...  

If it simply goes from running to stopped, the its likely electrical, i.e., a 
condenser or coil going bad.  And, once it stops and won't restart, pulling a 
plug, connecting it to a spark plug wire and grounding the plug while cranking 
the engine will tell you if you have spark or not.
Good luck! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Michael Brown via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Michael Brown 
 Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 9:04 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out
   
If you have the mechanical style fuel pump you may be able to use it for 
troubleshooting.
The pump has a mechanical primer in the form of a wire bail that goes around 
outside of
the body. Part way down here is a picture of the pump:

https://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=410

There is a bail that holds the fuel cup on, and a second smaller one you can 
see in the left
picture around the lower part of the pump.

If there is fuel available then after levering it out a couple of times it will 
fill the carburetor
and tend to stay out. If you can prime the pump a dozen times then either there 
is no fuel,
there is a problem with the lines or maybe the carb is getting flooded.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1
 


From: Randy Stafford 

Update on this - went down to the boat today, pulled plugs, changed oil.  No 
sign whatsoever of water in the engine.  Then on testing, she started right up, 
ran smoothly at idle for several minutes, then shut down suddenly.  And 
wouldn?t restart after a few short cranking attempts (with raw water intake 
closed).  From that I was relieved that the starter and solenoid and starter 
circuit were working, and the ignition circuits.

Per Occam?s Razor I removed and inspected the fuel petcock, as it?s been 
troublesome this year (it became increasingly difficult to turn, then suddenly 
easier to turn, hmmm?).  I believe it to be the culprit.  It was stuck in what 
appeared to be a closed position, and turning its handle didn?t change that.  I 
suspect it may have been just open enough to allow the fuel line to fill, given 
enough time.  But once the engine consumed the fuel in the line, it wasn?t open 
enough to keep supplying the engine.

I bought a new fuel shut-off valve from West Marine and will install it 
tomorrow and report back.  As for my starter not working Sunday when I pushed 
the button, I?ll let that remain a mystery unless it happens again.  Maybe I 
didn?t have the ignition switch pulled out far enough when I pressed the button.

Cheers,
Randy

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Re: Stus-List question about a C 30 mkii keel

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,
Quick question which I've wrestled with in my mind - Why torque the keel bolts 
on the hard?  Since the keel will spend most of its time hanging from the 
bottom of the boat in the water, isn't it better to torque the bolts in the 
specific situation where the stresses will be applied?
Thanks for the insights, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 10:15 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List question about a C 30 mkii keel
   
C smile.  This is common where the lead keel meets the fiberglass keel stub.  
First order of business is to torque/check of the keel bolts.  This is done on 
the hard.  Then check for water ingress in the water.  From the pictures it 
looks like someone else already did some fill work.
Worst case scenario you'll have to drop the keel and re-bed.
Second to worst case is that you'll use some type of epoxy and filler and 
fiberglass to patch a bandaid around the crack.
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, 
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Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Good point, Michael.  There is a significant difference that I failed to 
mention between the in/out ignition switch and the push button, and in 
retrospect it may have been the push/pull that I replaced - It's been a lot of 
years, and I just replaced a different type of silver pushbutton switch on my 
37/40+.  

Good insights from all, 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Michael Brown via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Michael Brown 
 Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 9:21 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out
   
Hi Randy,

  a common wiring configuration has a positive wire coming from the starter stud
to the ignition switch in. The ignition switch out feeds the ignition coil, 
starter button
and gauges. If you pull the ignition switch on it should move the fuel gauge, 
ignition
off might return the gauge to empty.

  If so that will confirm power is getting to and through the ignition switch.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 17:15:08 -0600
From: Randy Stafford 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out
Message-ID: <8f1bd72a-bd6e-4e04-b0a3-4e09edff3...@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Doug,

No noise whatsoever when I pushed the starter button.  It was as if there 
wasn?t enough current to activate the starter, but the batteries *did* have 
enough charge at the time.

Cheers,
Randy

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Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I think I would reiterate what a few have said here, but the diagnostics are as 
follows:
1).  If the engine is making no noise whatsoever when the pushbutton switch is 
depressed, check the switch first.  You should be able to do this by jumping 
the contacts momentarily.  I had a switch fail, and its pretty easy to find a 
replacement.  Based on your description, I would not expect a hydrolock, but of 
course, its best to close the seacock until you can get the engine running so 
you don't suck water into the engine.  Jump other places as needed to confirm 
the issue.  

2).  As for it dying there are two issues to suspect.  First is the coil.  When 
the get hot, they can fail, and then allow you to restart at another time.  
That has nothing to do with the engine not turning over, though (of course).  
The second, and also very high on potential failure issues is the combination 
of points & condenser.  After 10+ years of owning our 1977 C 27 MKIII, I 
converted it to electronic ignition by ordering the parts from Moyer Marine.  
When I got done adding up the cost of points, condenser, cap & rotor, a couple 
changes and it almost equaled the cost of the Moyer conversion.  It was VERY 
easy to install, and the reliability of the motor jumped 100%.  No more 
overheated coils, burned distributor caps, and even the plugs ran a lot 
cleaner.  Just the ability to rely on the engine to a much greater extent was 
worth the money.  Crank the engine with a plug out, stuck in the plug wire cap 
and grounded to the engine, and if you don't have spark, its definitely an 
ignition issue.  If the coil is oily on the outside (or is cracked), then 
definitely replace the coil as a first step.  By the way the coils and even the 
points & condensers can normally be found at an auto parts store - look up the 
conversions online, or if you can't find them, email me and I can probably get 
them for you.  

3).  Dying can also be caused by a carburetor problem, most likely a clogged 
jet.  The carburetor is again, VERY easy to overhaul, and if you are gentle 
taking it apart, you can probably do it without replacing any of the gaskets in 
a pinch.  I did so for years, and never had to buy new gaskets, but of course 
others here might criticize me for not doing so.  Again, this would have 
nothing to do with the engine not turning over.
Don Moyer's A-4 manual is also highly recommended.  It's not cheap, but between 
the well written descriptions and the photos, its a real lifesaver (much better 
than the Yanmar manufacturer manuals IMHO).
Feel free to drop me an email directly or call my number below if you need more 
info.
Kindest Regards, 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Michael Cotton via CnC-List 
 To: Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List  
Cc: Michael Cotton 
 Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 8:40 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out
   
 I had an ignition coil fail on  my A4. It would start and run then cut out. 
Sometimes restart sometimes not.  A coil replacement corrected the problem. 
On Monday, September 18, 2017, 5:38:28 PM MDT, Jeffrey Nelson via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
  Might try checking the ground on the engine.  Mine had that problem a number 
of years ago, taking it off and cleaning it up
 solved the problem.  Of course mine is a diesel and yours is gas, but I would 
expect that the ground would be wired similarly.
 Food for thought.
  
 On 9/18/2017 8:15 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List wrote:
  
 
 Hi Doug, 
  No noise whatsoever when I pushed the starter button.  It was as if there 
wasn’t enough current to activate the starter, but the batteries *did* have 
enough charge at the time. 
  Cheers, Randy 

 On Sep 18, 2017, at 3:08 PM, svpegasus38 via CnC-List  
wrote: 
  
 Randy, Are you getting any noise out of starter (click) when trying to start? 
Even if you are hydro locked you should hear a click at the starter solenoid if 
electrics are good.  Check the coil for cracks, check points and condenser, or 
electronic pick-up, ignition switch for loose/bad connections.   Good luck.  
  
  
   Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Doug Mountjoy  POYC  Pegasus (for sale)  
Lf38  Rebecca Leah LF39  
    Original message  From: Randal Stafford via CnC-List 
  Date: 9/18/17 07:29 (GMT-08:00)  To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com  Cc: Randal Stafford   
Subject: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out  
   Listers-
 
 I’m having a problem with my Atomic 4, and hoped you might have some thoughts 
to share.
 
 When I went out for a sail yesterday, she started right up, as always.  But 
then she cut out heading away from the marina.  Initially I suspected a fuel 
flow problem, as the petcock on the tank has become difficult to turn.  After 
ensuring the petcock was in the open position and the tank was 

Re: Stus-List Transmission position while sailing - Yanmar

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,
I was really curious when I read about the proper position of the shifter, and 
found multiple references of the following advisory purportedly from Yanmar as 
follows"
And for Yanmar/Kanzaki:

Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:

All Sailboat Engines

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing 
with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires 
that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must 
be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will 
result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please 
instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the 
correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while sailing.

If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either 
a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. 
However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, installation, or 
operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine service advisory 
“MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for additional information.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer 
Support representative."


The reason for failure mode, as was describe to me, is that in reverse the 
clutch cones can chatter, quiver or vibrate against one another causing wear 
which eventually leads to slippage and a gear box re-build. Many already know 
how difficult a Kanzaki can be to get out of reverse after sailing with it 
locked.

Here's a quote from the SBO forums:
Quote:
Originally Posted by glengreyUnfortunately I can attest to the proper Yanmar 
gear position. In the summer of 2008 my transmission (Kansaki on a 3GM30F 
engine) started slipping. Engine had 440 hours. always placed gear in reverse 
when sailing. After considerable discussion with Yamnar they advised they would 
not consider warranty (was passed the hours for that anyway). Upshot is new 
transmission. They advised that the cone clutch does "quiver" (my term) even 
though locked into reverse, producing wear and eventually slippage.
I don't like believing everything I read on the internet, but I kept coming 
across this advisory.
Hope this helps, 
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 9:12 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Transmission position while sailing
   
Folding and feathering props can stay open if you don't stop the shaft by 
putting it in reverse.  With a fixed prop you can reduce drag by "trailing the 
shaft" and leaving it in neutral.  The problem is that some transmissions don't 
get properly lubricated in this condition (IIRC: paragon?)  Reverse should 
always be fine no matter what engine/transmission.
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, MD
On Sep 18, 2017 7:16 PM, "schiller via CnC-List"  wrote:

  OK, gang.  I know this has been discussed before but help me out.  With the 
Universal M-25XPB in Corsair, the manuals said to shift he transmission into 
reverse after shut down while sailing.  Withe the new Yanmar in Grace (C 35, 
Mark III), what is the prevailing wisdom as to transmission selection after 
shutdown while sailing.  I instinctively put the transmission in reverse but 
can not find any Yanmar documentation as to what they recommend.
 
 Neil Schiller
 1983 C 35, Mark III, #028
 "Grace"
 White Lake, Michigan
 Scheduled for haulout 6 October
  
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Re: Stus-List LED Interior Flourescent replacements

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I did the same thing as Tom, and I used these:  
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MSJ58UI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8=1

Overall I'm happy, they were rated for somewhat more lumens, and I used 2 in 
each of the fixtures.  In a perfect world, I might have even added a 3rd per 
fixture, but with the other lights being replaced with LEDs, this works fine.
Hope this helps, 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Tom Buscaglia 
 Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 12:30 PM
 Subject: Stus-List LED Interior Flourescent replacements
   
I didn’t use replacement tube because the old fluorescent fixtures were going 
off rather than the bulbs.  The fixtures were all behind a translucent panels. 
So, I pulled out the old fixtures and hard wired  LED strip lights.  I used two 
in each location, that are chain wired with a jumper. Cleaned the surface and 
used double sided tape.  Works great.  
I also replaced all of the bayonet bulbs with LED replacements.
Tom B
Tom BuscagliaS/V Alera 1990 C 37+/40Vashon WAP 206.463.9200C 305.409.3660



Message: 1
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:35:41 +
From: kelly petew 
To: cnc-list 
Subject: Stus-List LED Interior Flourescent replacements
Message-ID:
    

    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Anyone have any experiences to share with replacing your original fluorescents 
with LEDs?

Is it simply 'plug & play', i.e., old tube out, new LED tube into the existing 
fixture??


Thanks!!


Pete W.


Siren Song

'91 C 30-2

Deltaville, Va.
-


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Stus-List How long do your zincs last (saltwater, on a dock, plugged in to shore power

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I just wanted to check in with  you folks.  For those of you who are in 
saltwater, on a dock, and plugged into shore power, how long would you expect 
to see your shaft zinc last?  I get a regular report from our diver, who, after 
about 6 months, indicated that the zinc is down to about 70% of new.
Thanks for the input, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Stus-List Anchor chain & rode advice, C 37/40+

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
We have a 1994 C 37/40+, and the anchor chain connected to its primary 
anchor, a 35 lb. Delta, is fused together with rust.  The chain is also about 
20 ft. in length, which I suspect is too short, as the conventional wisdom I 
think is that chain at least as long as the boat is highly recommended in order 
to keep the anchor set.  

Then there is the line, which is about 150 feet, which equally I think is a 
little short, though we are located on the west side of Florida where anchoring 
in 20 feet of water is almost an impossibility unless we're stupid enough to 
set anchor in the middle of the ICW.  That said, we will eventually want to be 
doing some cruising down into the Caribbean, so I'm thinking carrying some 
additional rode poses little downsides.
Finally, I've read that the recommended line size is 1/8" for every 9 feet of 
boat length, but of course that is somewhat relevant as to windage and boat 
weight.  I consider our C to be relatively low both on the windage and weight 
scales, especially compared to the 40 foot powerboats I've seen out there.  The 
1/2" line (which is on the boat now) has a breaking strength of 7,500 lbs., but 
I presume the issue is more about chafe protection than breaking strength per 
se.  So, the questions are as follows:
1).  What size, type and length of chain would you recommend?  We don't have a 
windlass now, but may eventually put one in.
2).  Should I go with 9/16" line vs. the 1/2"?  What length would you recommend 
if you were going to consider cruising in the Caribbean?  

I'm thinking of carrying 40 ft. of BBB chain and 250 ft. of rode on the primary 
Delta anchor, and perhaps a little less on both chain and line for our 
secondary (a Danforth), though I'm not sure that carrying the lesser amount on 
the secondary is advisable.

Thanks in advance, 
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Follow-up Regarding Dinghy Recommendations?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
OK, so I like the idea of the Porta Boat given the ability to fold & stow it on 
deck, as well as the reviews I have read.  So far, I have simply found very few 
negative comments.  That said, I am going to try to find one that I like on 
Craigslist and see if I can negotiate a test run on one before I commit to it.
Before I do that, they come in 8, 10, 12 and 14 foot models.  What length would 
you recommend, and why?  

Thanks everyone for your help, 

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"  
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Nate Flesness via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Nate Flesness <nateflesn...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 8:26 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Dinghy Recommendations?
   
voting for the keep-it-light philosophy, we're happy with a 27 lb. 1.2 HP 30 
year old Johnson/Evinrude that pushes an 8 ft Walker Bay with RID kit much 
faster than I can row it. We once had a water-ski boat,and  I don't need my 
dink to act like that. We have davits, but hand the motor down and up - which 
is why 27 lbs is perfect. Bought one well used bur running fine for $300. Only 
caveat is, the little motors have little carb jets, most anything in the gas 
can cause trouble. I now fill the internal tank with a filter paper in the 
funnel to remove very fine crud.
Nate
1980 C 30-1Tartan 31
On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hello all,
The last thing I want to do is to start "The Great Dinghy War".  
That said, our '94 came with two outboards, one 6.5 hp Honda 4 stroke mounted 
the the stern railing and an old Torqeedo.  Haven't even gotten around to 
testing either one yet - too many other things on my list!  Thre was a West 
Marine inflatable dinghy folded up under the v-berth, but the floor had 
entirely peeled out of it and is was in really poor shape.

If we want to go on any kind of getaway (even a local one), I'm going to need a 
dinghy since transient slips here in the Tampa area are darned expensive.  

I'm really liking the idea of a porta-boat, especially given the ability to 
store it on deck easily.  I've seen a couple of you comment very positively 
about them.  I am also finding relatively few detractors.  That said I want to 
keep my mind wide open as I way the options.
I've read a number of articles that really push for a RIB with a 15hp yamaha as 
being the "standard" in the Caribbean due to combination of dryness, speed, and 
ability to get parts.  However, in our harbor, we cannot keep a dinghy in the 
water next to our boat, so I think that may strike a RIB unless we hang dinghy 
davits from the stern which would probably force us into a bigger dock (which 
may not even be available in our marina).

 So,what dinghy, what size, and what outboard size/type? Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  https://www.paypal.me/ 
stumurray

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Re: Stus-List wheel squeak

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

If your wheel is stiff and you've lubed everything, then I would strongly 
suspect a bent rudder shaft, and since it has been stiff since you bought the 
boat, you're unfortunately in a position where you don't know all the past 
history.  

I had a friend who's wife was motoring and didn't realize there was a line of 
pilings in the water (they were not well marked).  She got the keel and rudder 
in between the line and couldn't get out.  It bent the rudder, but not so bad 
that it couldn't be turned.  

In the end, the insurance replaced the rudder and that solved the problem.
In your particular case, if you can determine the point and extent of the bend, 
you can probably find a heavy-duty machine shop with a hydraulic press that can 
straighten the shaft.  
Sorry for the less than stellar news, 

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Martin Kane via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Martin Kane 
 Sent: Friday, August 25, 2017 4:41 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List wheel squeak
   
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6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8452622575 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 
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{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8452622575 
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.yiv8452622575MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv8452622575 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv8452622575 div.yiv8452622575WordSection1 
{}#yiv8452622575 I had the rudder out of my  ’83 29-2 last winter. The only 
metal bushing/bearing is where the post comes thru the cockpit sole. There was 
only minimal wear on mine so I didn’t replace it. The fit between the rudder 
post and fibreglass rudder tube is tight and there is no stuffing box like on 
the prop shaft. There is just a tube which acts as a long bushing/bearing. If 
the grease in the tube has gone hard, then injecting fresh won’t clear out the 
old grease. If you decide to drop the rudder be careful as it is only held in 
place by the two set screws in collar that sits on top of the post. I’d guess 
it weighs about a 100lbs and doesn’t really have any good hand holds. So not 
that easy to work with. When the boat on the hard I can move the rudder from 
stop to stop with the pressure from one finger.   Martin 29-2 Recalculating  
From: Bruce Pope [mailto:brucep...@live.ca] 
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2017 3:20 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List wheel squeak  Hello.  On a similar noteThe wheel on 
my 1986 29-2 has been stiff since purchase 3 years ago.    I have lube'd 
everything in the steering system that was recommended by folks on this list 
including pumping fresh waterproof grease into the rudder post stuffing box 
thru a zerk fitting (with old grease pushing out of the top).   I read a post 
some time ago indicating that there is likely a bushing at the top of the 
rudder post where it enters the cockpit sole - at the emergency tiller steering 
unit.  Wondering if anyone knows whether the 80's vintage C 29-2's also have  
bushing/bearings down in the rudder post stuffing box ?    If yes,  also 
wondering if anyone knows where I can get replacement bushings or will I have 
to get someone to make them?I am borrowing a trailer to haul the boat and on a 
pretty tight time schedule so would like to have parts in hand before I 
haul.Thanks.  Bruce1986 29-2GyrfalconKootenay Lake, BC  
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Re: Stus-List wheel squeak

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

This brings up a good point - As for the cables, where would folks here buy 
them?  Directly from Edson (expensive) or is there a less expensive, but still 
good quality alternative (say from McMaster Carr, Grainger, etc.)?
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: svpegasus38 via CnC-List 
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Cc: svpegasus38 
 Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 2:08 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List wheel squeak
   
Had a similar thing happen sailing to Hawaii few years ago on a 1973 Ericson 
35. 500 miles from Hilo I had a steering cable break. Dug out the emergency 
tiller, and continued to sail. No anchoring here, lol. Figured out it was 
almost impossible to steer a course while looking aft at the compass, chart 
plotter was to slow to steer by. We hove to, changed the cable and sailed off 
into the sun set, well it did take all day to get to the sun set. Next morning 
at 5am the other cable broke. This time the capt was at the helm and the seas 
were in the neighborhood of 20ft instead of 4 like the day before. Hove to 
again changed the second cable. The owner had changed out the cable 3 years 
before using hardware store wire rope. I heard from a friend, who sailed back 
to Victoria, that the cables broke again. My thought was that he had too stuff 
of cable for the sheave  diameter. 


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE DeviceDoug Mountjoy POYC Pegasus (for sale) Lf38 
Rebecca Leah LF39 
 Original message From: ahycrace via CnC-List 
 Date: 8/25/17 20:08 (GMT-08:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: ahycrace  Subject: Re: Stus-List 
wheel squeak 
Sailing down Narragansett bay a few years ago broad reach 7kts we hear a loud 
BANG and no steering. Get the sails down and anchor. We look under the cockpit 
and see that the idler plate is so rusted that one of the pullys has pulled 
right off. Get the emergency tiller out and attach it motor homea very bad 
day! Check that plate and all of the attached pullys. Edson has all the 
replacements if needed. I have pics of the bad plate before i took it off. I 
can post them when we get home we are in Newport watching the J class boats 
race.  
Gary. "Liberty"  38' Mk ll


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
 Date: 8/24/17 10:08 AM (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Chuck Gilchrest  Subject: 
Re: Stus-List wheel squeak 
Richard,Make sure to use a non-petroleum based lubricant for the bearings that 
support the wheel shaft (such as Superlube or other Teflon based grease).  
Don’t squirt WD-40 or any light weight spray  lubricant into the grease holes 
as it will tend to flush any lube out of the nylon caged bearings.  You can 
also check to see if the bearings are worn if you can move the wheel shaft up 
and down, or side to side.  There should be no play in the shaft at all..  
Edson does sell a “pedestal rebuild kit” that includes bearings, circlips and 
all the other thrust washers and replacement components for the wheel shaft.  
If you go down that road, I’d also take the time to replace the brake shoes if 
everything else is apart.  The other possibility for your squeaky noise is the 
sheave pins (axles) for the bronze idler wheels.  They ride on plain bushings 
and in the “old days” the axles were also bronze, which will wear out 
eventually and allow the sheaves to go flying into the bilge under tension at 
the worst possible time.  If those have never been checked, replaced with 
stainless pins, or lubricated as described in Edson’s steering maintenance 
instructions, I would certainly do so.  Once the sheave pins wear, the sheaves 
go out of alignment and the squeaking you hear may be the axles getting ready 
to let go.    Finally, the Edson Idler plate at the base of the pedestal is 
generally made of mild steel below the deck.  Not terribly subjected to the 
elements, but they can and will eventually start to rust.  Once that happens, 
sheaves, cable alignments and other critical steering components can be 
affected, so check for a rusty idler plate as well as wobbly sheave uprights.  
Whatever you do, don’t wait for it to fail to fix it..  Boats without steering 
are not safe by any stretch of the imagination.  The folks at Edson are very 
good at walking you through what you need and they have data sheets on most 
every C Steering system they sold for our boats.Cheers,Chuck GilchrestS/V 
Half Magic1983 35 LandfallPadanaram, MA  From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 9:42 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joel Aronson 
Subject: Re: Stus-List wheel squeak  Is it an Edson pedestal?  If so, there are 
two places to squeeze in grease under the 

Re: Stus-List wheel squeak - Follow up/Resolution

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I thought I would let you know what I found when I tracked down our 
creaking/crunching sound when we turned the wheel on our 1994 C 37/40+.  
According to the survey, the drive wheel at the rudder post had been recently 
replaced.  When I went and looked at the idlers and the drive wheel, the wheel 
was slightly out of alignment.  So, when the wheel was moved, the cable lightly 
rubbed the edge of the wheel ring, and the resulting noise was actually much 
worse than one would imagine.  

Once I backed off the bolts and slightly raised the drive wheel, the noise went 
away.
FYI, I also found a loose idler pulley mounting nut, and also found the idler 
axles are stainless pins. 

In the end, a very easy fix.
Thanks for insights everyone! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Bruce Whitmore <bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net>
 Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 9:20 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List wheel squeak
   
This brings up a good point - As for the cables, where would folks here buy 
them?  Directly from Edson (expensive) or is there a less expensive, but still 
good quality alternative (say from McMaster Carr, Grainger, etc.)?
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: svpegasus38 via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: svpegasus38 <svpegasu...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2017 2:08 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List wheel squeak
  
Had a similar thing happen sailing to Hawaii few years ago on a 1973 Ericson 
35. 500 miles from Hilo I had a steering cable break. Dug out the emergency 
tiller, and continued to sail. No anchoring here, lol. Figured out it was 
almost impossible to steer a course while looking aft at the compass, chart 
plotter was to slow to steer by. We hove to, changed the cable and sailed off 
into the sun set, well it did take all day to get to the sun set. Next morning 
at 5am the other cable broke. This time the capt was at the helm and the seas 
were in the neighborhood of 20ft instead of 4 like the day before. Hove to 
again changed the second cable. The owner had changed out the cable 3 years 
before using hardware store wire rope. I heard from a friend, who sailed back 
to Victoria, that the cables broke again. My thought was that he had too stuff 
of cable for the sheave  diameter. 


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE DeviceDoug Mountjoy POYC Pegasus (for sale) Lf38 
Rebecca Leah LF39 
 Original message From: ahycrace via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Date: 8/25/17 20:08 (GMT-08:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: ahycrace <ahycr...@cox.net> Subject: Re: Stus-List 
wheel squeak 
Sailing down Narragansett bay a few years ago broad reach 7kts we hear a loud 
BANG and no steering. Get the sails down and anchor. We look under the cockpit 
and see that the idler plate is so rusted that one of the pullys has pulled 
right off. Get the emergency tiller out and attach it motor homea very bad 
day! Check that plate and all of the attached pullys. Edson has all the 
replacements if needed. I have pics of the bad plate before i took it off. I 
can post them when we get home we are in Newport watching the J class boats 
race.  
Gary. "Liberty"  38' Mk ll


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Date: 8/24/17 10:08 AM (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Chuck Gilchrest <csgilchr...@comcast.net> Subject: 
Re: Stus-List wheel squeak 
Richard,Make sure to use a non-petroleum based lubricant for the bearings that 
support the wheel shaft (such as Superlube or other Teflon based grease).  
Don’t squirt WD-40 or any light weight spray  lubricant into the grease holes 
as it will tend to flush any lube out of the nylon caged bearings.  You can 
also check to see if the bearings are worn if you can move the wheel shaft up 
and down, or side to side.  There should be no play in the shaft at all..  
Edson does sell a “pedestal rebuild kit” that includes bearings, circlips and 
all the other thrust washers and replacement components for the wheel shaft.  
If you go down that road, I’d also take the time to replace the brake shoes if 
everything else is apart.  The other possibility for your squeaky noise is the 
sheave pins (axles) for the bronze idler wheels.  They ride on plain bushings 
and in the “old days” the axles were also bronze, which will wear out 
eventually and allow the sheaves to go flying into the bilge under tension at 
the worst possible time.  If those have never been checked, replaced with 
stainless pins, or lubricated as described in Edson’s steering maintenance 
instructions, I would certainly do so.  Once the sheave pins wear, 

Stus-List Fw: Lessons learned from plastic welding water tank

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

In response to the prior post about fixing a leaking water tank, see my post 
below.
One final update.  An additional source I found around for LDPE was water 
softener bags.  I think it might be a little thin to effectively weld with, but 
if you run short, it's nice to know that the bag you threw in the recycling bin 
just might help finish off the process.
By the way, you should find that it will be relatively easy to remove the empty 
tank.
Good Luck! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


 
- Forwarded Message -
 From: Bruce Whitmore 
 To: C List  
 Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2017 11:54 AM
 Subject: Lessons learned from plastic welding water tank
   
Hello all,
First, I want to thank everyone here for their help - it really gave me a jump 
start on fixing my water tank.  

Here's what I found:
   
   - The tank is definitely made of LDPE (low density polyethelene).  HDPE does 
NOT stick to it, so don't even begin to think that all polyethelene is the 
same.  You can weld LDPE to HDPE, but not HDPE to LDPE. 

   - Welding is the preferred method for fixing by comparison to epoxies 
designed to fix polyethelene.
   - I used a hot air blower welder from Harbor Freight Tools - it cost about 
$50.  In hindsight, I probably could have done a better job with one of their 
soldering iron type that heats a hot disk end.  Getting smooth melting of the 
rod into the tank plastic is very important, and I kept having issues with the 
plastic from the rods bubbling.  In the end, I took a torch, heated up an old 
putty knife, and using that to smooth the edges.  I'm sure this is partly 
because I don't get along particularly well with welding and soldering.  It's 
the one task I have to teach myself to do better.  Ideally, I think I would 
have used the type of welder that feeds strips/rods through the tip of the 
welder, but that one was not immediately available. 

   - You want to weld the plastic with strips, not rods.  Strips are easier to 
work with.  If you can't find LDPE strips online, keep looking around the house 
for #4 recycleable plastic.  The only place I found it around our house was the 
snap-on tops to Tupperware type containers.  If you are buying strips, buy more 
than you think you'll need.  I bought 5' of strips, and I could easily have 
used 10 to lay on the thickness I wanted.
   - Practice welding HDPE, say with a cracked old paint bucket or something.  
HDPE is much easier to find around the house, as laundry detergent bottles, and 
just about every other piece of recyclable plastic (except clear bottles) is 
made from it.  Once you learn how to weld with HDPE, the process with LDPE is 
the same, and it will go much more smoothly.
   - Clean the tank with MEK.   I did it both before and after the 
grinding/sanding.
   - Using a dremel, grind out a groove (this is actually pretty important, so 
don't skip this step).  Even if you go through the tank, don't worry, you can 
build it up again with the strips.
   - Find a YouTube video or two to watch the process.
   - Sand the area with 80 grit sandpaper.
   - Drill a small hole at the ends of the cracks to keep the cracks from 
progressing
   - At the suggestion of another poster, I layed in a layer of stainless mesh 
over the crack thinking that if it cracked once, it might do so again, so 
reinforcing the area would be a good idea.  Time will tell.
   - Be sure to water test it before putting it back in the boat. 


Hoping this set of step-by-step instruction helps, Bruce Whitmore1994 C 37/40+
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


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Re: Stus-List 1983 C 35 mark 3 new purchase

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I agree with Rick's comments.  We were out on a friend's Catalina 42 last 
weekend, and while it was clearly voluminous down below, the lack of handholds 
was very noticeable.  His is probably a late-80s, early 90's boat.  

That said, I wasn't going to say anything... :)  
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Rick Brass 
 Sent: Friday, August 25, 2017 10:25 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List 1983 C 35 mark 3 new purchase
   
#yiv4979407916 #yiv4979407916 -- _filtered #yiv4979407916 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 
6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4979407916 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 
3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4979407916 {font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 
3 2 4;}#yiv4979407916 #yiv4979407916 p.yiv4979407916MsoNormal, #yiv4979407916 
li.yiv4979407916MsoNormal, #yiv4979407916 div.yiv4979407916MsoNormal 
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a:link, #yiv4979407916 span.yiv4979407916MsoHyperlink 
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span.yiv4979407916MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
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{margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;color:black;}#yiv4979407916 
pre 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;color:black;}#yiv4979407916 
span.yiv4979407916HTMLPreformattedChar {color:black;}#yiv4979407916 
span.yiv4979407916EmailStyle21 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv4979407916 
.yiv4979407916MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv4979407916 
{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv4979407916 div.yiv4979407916WordSection1 
{}#yiv4979407916 I have to agree with Joe about the interior volume of the 
CatBenHun boats. Wide beam carried well aft on the newer designs makes for lots 
of interior room. Much more than on any of the boats designed in the 1980s.  
That said, none of the newer Catalinas or Hunters I’ve been aboard (which 
includes several models from 33 to about 45 feet) seem to be set up as good sea 
boats. Few hand holds, few fiddles, big spaces between the cabinets. A local 
Catalina 42 Mk2 owner has stopped taking his boat out on Pamlico Sound when the 
wind is forecast to be above 15 knots because he and his wife were tired of 
getting uncomfortable and bouncing around the interior when underweigh. (The 
Sound averages only about 20 feet deep and develops a significant, short chop 
at 20 knots and above. A Donzi 33 came into my marina yesterday from across the 
Sound; they said they had to turn back twice because of the chop, and it was 
blowing 8 to 12.)  I suspect the better description of the boats I’ve been 
aboard would be “Dock Condo” instead of “Cruising Boat”.  Rick BrassWashington, 
NC    From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joe 
Della Barba via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2017 8:51 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joe Della Barba 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 1983 C 35 mark 3 new purchase  If you look at any 
recent CatBenHun in the 34-36 foot range, any version of the C 35 is going to 
seem quite small and cramped. Any of the 35s will of course sail 10x better, 
but that does not always matter to some people.Warning - the "have to have it" 
aft double bunk under the cockpit is a long way from the air coming down the 
forward hatch and right next to the hot engine. It may not be the cruising 
paradise your wife thinks it is ;)  JoeCoquinaC 35 MK I  
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List 29-2 stuffing box Now Stuffing Material Damage

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I have to agree with Matt - There's the question of the missing key, potential 
damage to the stuffing box material, etc.  I would be quite concerned about 
doing any motoring whatsoever until such time as the key is replaced.
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford 
 Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 2:05 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List 29-2 stuffing box Now Stuffing Material Damage
   
#yiv4519492207 #yiv4519492207 -- _filtered #yiv4519492207 
{font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4519492207 
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1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv4519492207 div.yiv4519492207WordSection1 {}#yiv4519492207 
Sounds to me like the mechanic who did the work a month ago should pull the 
boat and take care of it (promptly).  It is way too coincidental that this type 
of issue arose within a month of the same work being completed. From: Jim Brown 
via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 1:02 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Jim Brown Subject: Re: Stus-List 29-2 stuffing box Now Stuffing Material 
Damage Returning to the dock, I ran the prop in reverse and heard a small 
“thud” from below. I discovered that the prop shaft had pulled out of the 
coupling and pulled back through the stuffing box allowing sea water to enter. 
We managed to push the shaft back through the stuffing box and back into the 
coupling, thus stopping the water flow. The boat had been pulled about a month 
before and the stuffing box removed, the flex hose replaced and all reinstalled 
with new stuffing, etc. The mechanic that had done the work suggested that 
pulling the shaft out of the box and then pushing it back in should not have 
damaged the stuffing material and, therefore, the boat doesn’t necessarily need 
to be pulled (again) to correct what caused the shaft to pull out. We have the 
older set screw type coupling, not the split coupling. The set screw appears 
damaged where is goes into the shaft dimple and the key is missing – hopefully 
not lost in the shaft tube. I’m a little concerned about possible stuffing 
damage and wondering if any “listers” have any advice. As always, this site is 
very informative and enjoyable over all the years. Thanks very much.   Jim 
Brown “Flash Over” 1981 C 34 Vancouver   From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 2:20 PM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List 29-2 stuffing box   A couple of BIG slip joint 
(Channelock) pliers will do the trick.  The infamous packing gland wrench (sink 
wrench) also works with one of the aforementioned pliers.   
https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-190-Adjustable-Wrench/dp/B0031F02EK/ref=pd_lpo_200_lp_t_3?_encoding=UTF8=1=481P75GC53T779BWMF7R
   I use a PTFE impregnated packing.  I like conventional packing glands.  I've 
seen a couple of failures of dripless packings.     A buddy just had his boat's 
box re-packed by a yard.  After just an hour or so of motoring, he observed 
some gray wax-like stuff under the packing gland.  He confronted the yard 
manager with the evidence.  seems they ran out of PTFE packing and finished 
with this wax-like stuff.  They re-packed it for him.   Here's some reading for 
you:   http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box=2   Dennis C. 
Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA   On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Bev Parslow 
via CnC-List  wrote: What tools are the best to tighten 
the stuffing box on a 29-2. Also what is the size of the packing? What packing 
should be used? 
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All 

Re: Stus-List Fresh water plumbing winterizing

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Just makes me think of Spaceballs where Mega Made is switched from Suck to 
Blow
Mega maid suck to blow
  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
||  
Mega maid suck to blow
   |   |

  |

  |

 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 5:13 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Fresh water plumbing winterizing
   
Instead of an air compressor I use a shop vac set on blow instead of suck.  I 
have fewer fears of over pressuring the system and a small 1 gallon shop vac is 
great for around the boat anyway.Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017, 3:32 PM Tom Lynch via CnC-List  
wrote:

Marek,
Thank you for your very detailed procedure.   
What type and size of air compressor what you recommend for this job?
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:37 PM Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Tom, This is how I do it: 1.  drain water from the fresh water tank (does not 
need to be completely empty)2. drain water from the water heater3. highly 
advisable - install a water heater by-pass (multiple models available from RV 
supply; but I strongly suggest getting one withTWO valves 
(https://www.amazon.ca/Valterra-P23503LFVP-Water-Heater-Pass/dp/B00HSO57LS/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive=UTF8=1507576917=1-2=water+heater+bypass)4.
  disconnect the system from the pump (above the pump)5. - purge any remnants 
of water from the system using compressed air (for that you may need an adapter 
that can be purchased from any RV place or online 
(e.g.:https://www.amazon.ca/Camco-36143-Brass-Quick-Connect/dp/B002XL2IEA) - 
you may need to MacGyver an adapter using the above and various length of hose, 
nipples etc.).6. when you do it, close all faucets and then open one at a time 
(do it for each faucet on cold and hot water)7. this would be especially 
complicated for hot water, as your heater would have plenty of water to be 
purged.8. engage the water heater bypass9. disconnect pump from the supply line 
from the tank.10. attach to the pump a length of appropriate hose and put it 
into a jug of antifreeze11. run the pump drawing AF from the jug until the pink 
stuff comes out of each and every faucet12. repeat 4.-6., this time to evacuate 
any remnants of AF You would need to modify this list to get the water out of 
the galley pump and water lines. It would be a modification of 4.-6. Or is the 
foot pump getting water from the lake? If so, you simply close the 
through-hull, disconnect the hose, put it into the AF jug and pump. (btw. the 
same procedure as for the supply side of the head). If you have a cockpit 
shower, don’t forget it in your procedure Never put AF into the water heater - 
it is difficult to drain, you would need 5-6 gal of it to fill it, supposedly, 
it can turn into a cotton-candy-like mush, if heated and you would have a hard 
time getting the taste out of the water after this. If you have an ice-box, the 
chances are that you have a pump that pumps out water from the bottom of it. 
Make sure that you winterise it, as well. If you have a drain in the head 
(shower sump?), make sure that you winterise it, as well. I hope I don’t need 
to mention that you need to winterise properly the head. It is not enough to 
just put some AF into the bowl and pump it out. You need to put AF into the 
supply side, as well. If this list scares you, it should not; it is much easier 
than it sounds. Marek 1994 C270 ”Legato”Ottawa, ON(the above procedure is still 
ahead of me, but I usually do it on the hard)From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Tom Lynch via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 14:59
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Tom Lynch 
Subject: Stus-List Fresh water plumbing winterizing What's the best practice 
for Winterizing the fresh water system?   My system: 40 gallon tank estimated 
Water heater Pressurized water pump2 fixtures hot / cold from the pump 1 
fixture in the galley from a foot pump.  My boat is on Lake Superior northern 
WI.  And no I cannot sail it to warmer climate for the winter.   Tom LynchS/V 
IndoIrishC 33 MKIIBayfield WI - Lake Superior 
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Re: Stus-List Hatch replacement experiences.

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I can't say I've ever seen, nor heard of butyl rubber in a tube.  

Just FYI,  
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Tom Jacobs via CnC-List 
 To: Dave Godwin  
Cc: Tom Jacobs ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 8:07 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Hatch replacement experiences.
   
Dave 
Did the same on our 37 Amazing Grace about five years ago. Used new screws, no 
bolts. Invested time in digging out the minor amount of open weak wood. There 
was no rot but around the screws has some gaps and would not have held the 
screws with out solid filling. After filling with epoxy leveled the surface 
better than original to allow a consistent fill of sealant. I think we used 
butyl rubber from a tube. Still working in San Diego, no leaks. 

Sent from my iPhone
972-849-4730


On Sep 26, 2017, at 2:17 PM, Dave Godwin  wrote:



So I’m crowd-sourcing this question that I have. Always good ideas and 
experiences here.
I purchased a Lewmar Ocean Hatch 60 (shout-out to Fred Street) last year and am 
now getting ready to install it as a replacement for the Atkins-Hoyle hatch 
that I buggered up removing it prior to painting the decks. The original hatch 
used what are I believe (threw away all the originals like a dope…) #14 
stainless steel sheet metal screws screwed into the deck. No through-bolting. 
Twenty of those and butyl. Worked pretty well for 30-plus years
The new Lewmar specifies through-bolting the frame, using #12 machine screws 
and nuts. Let’s just say that I am really reluctant to run bolts through my 
overhead and having to stare at them when lying and looking upwards in the 
v-berth.
So, what have those who have replaced their original hatches done?
Best,Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake BayRonin’s Overdue Refit
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Re: Stus-List Hatch replacement experiences.

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I am thinking about a number of similar attachments where I'd really like a 
machine screw attachment instead of a wood screw type (which in my opinion 
tears up fiberglass and/or whatever you're screwing it into).  This way one can 
remove the screw multiple times.  

So, I came across the idea of a threaded insert like this:  
https://www.amazon.com/Z-Threaded-400-3-CR-Stainless-Internal/dp/B002WC8TS4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8=1506518994=8-3=stainless+steel+threaded+inserts
If one overdrilled the hole, filled it with thickened epoxy, and put in a 
threaded insert, wouldn't that do double duty as far as preventing future core 
damage while allowing hatches & such to be removed at will for rebedding in the 
future?
Curious as to how this approach would be lacking, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
 To: CnClist  
Cc: Dennis C. 
 Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 5:50 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Hatch replacement experiences.
   
Dave,
I haven't done exactly what you describe but have done similar work.  If it was 
me, I'd fill the old holes with thickened epoxy and go with the #12 fasteners.
You didn't say if the new bolt pattern completely or partially overlaid the A 
hatch.  If it matches, overbore and fill.
In fact, if you overbored and filled regardless you'd probably end up with a 
strong bond.  My thinking is that the deck is only 1/4-3/8 inch or so.  So the 
fastener is only grabbing that much.  If you overbore carefully down to the top 
of the headliner and fill with thickened epoxy, you'll have a plug that is 
thicker than the original deck.  More material for the fastener to grab.  
Measure the depth of the hole before you fill so you'll have a good idea of 
what length fastener to use.
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List 
 wrote:

So I’m crowd-sourcing this question that I have. Always good ideas and 
experiences here.
I purchased a Lewmar Ocean Hatch 60 (shout-out to Fred Street) last year and am 
now getting ready to install it as a replacement for the Atkins-Hoyle hatch 
that I buggered up removing it prior to painting the decks. The original hatch 
used what are I believe (threw away all the originals like a dope…) #14 
stainless steel sheet metal screws screwed into the deck. No through-bolting. 
Twenty of those and butyl. Worked pretty well for 30-plus years
The new Lewmar specifies through-bolting the frame, using #12 machine screws 
and nuts. Let’s just say that I am really reluctant to run bolts through my 
overhead and having to stare at them when lying and looking upwards in the 
v-berth.
So, what have those who have replaced their original hatches done?
Best,Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake BayRonin’s Overdue Refit

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stumurray

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Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Here is a photo of the car:  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7xjokgr6ndss8u/Track%20Car.jpg?dl=0

Here is a photo of the end of the track:  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hj5gygo52qf25p9/Track%20Photo%20%231.jpg?dl=0

And here is a photo of the track:  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/80aoxpg4igj3pmv/Track%20Photo%20%233.jpg?dl=0
Can anyone here suggest a solution for retrofitting adjustable cars to this 
track?  Garhauer was only $430 for the full kit (both sides), but the cars 
don't fit the track, and they say they can't match it.  Have any of you had 
luck with getting Garhauer to make a car to match this track?  

I really don't want to spend more than twice the Garhauer price.  I'm not going 
to race, and I need $1,000 more than I need adjustable cars...
Thanks!
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Dennis C. via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: CnClist <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 4:37 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+
   
I have Lewmar Size 1's.  They're OK but I'm not overly happy with them.
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hello all,
I was wondering if you folks might be able to give me some guidance.  I ordered 
adjustable Genoa track cars from Garhauer, and even sent them a photo of the 
track.  When they got here, the cars won't fit - they will not even slide over 
the track.  I sent new photos to Garhauer, and Guido looked at them and 
informed me that not only do they not make adjustable cars that fit, they can't 
even custom make them.
Have you folks obtained adjustable cars, and if so, from where?  
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I was wondering if you folks might be able to give me some guidance.  I ordered 
adjustable Genoa track cars from Garhauer, and even sent them a photo of the 
track.  When they got here, the cars won't fit - they will not even slide over 
the track.  I sent new photos to Garhauer, and Guido looked at them and 
informed me that not only do they not make adjustable cars that fit, they can't 
even custom make them.
Have you folks obtained adjustable cars, and if so, from where?  
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Standing Rigging Question From a Former C

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I have to agree with Neil.  The rigging is responsible for your primary mode of 
propulsion, and the forces are signficant.  At least down here in Florida 
(Tampa area), riggers are pretty inexpensive, and the investment is well worth 
it for peace of mind.
Just my $.02 worth, 
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+"Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: schiller via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: schiller 
 Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 9:07 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Standing Rigging Question From a Former C
   
 From somebody who has lost a rig.  Of all of the things we spend our money on, 
the rig is one where spending the money on a rigger makes sense.  It is no fun 
to be bobbing a mile off shore trying to collect rigging and sails in three 
foot waves, afraid to engage the motor for fear of tangling in lines or  sails. 
 Find a rigger and have him give you advice.
 
 Neil Schiller
 Old:  1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7 (dismasted)
 New: 1983 C 35, Mark III, #028
 "Grace"
 White Lake, Michigan
 
 On 11/17/2017 8:54 PM, bobmor99 . via CnC-List wrote:
  
 Thank you for the replies. After some research it looks like I should use 
double jaw toggles to connect the eyes of the new shrouds to the eyes in the 
existing shroud plates.  
   http://hayn.com/marine/rigging/tj.html#djt  
 On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 
Yeah I kinda misinterpreted the description.  The swadged end fittings should 
be properly attached to a tang which could then be through bolted to the mast.  
 
 
  On Fri, Nov 17, 2017, 8:10 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:
  
   You can’t run a bolt through the eye on the end of a shroud. The tangs line 
up the direction of pull, a bolt would be getting pulled on at an angle trying 
to yank the head/nut off from one side. Joe Coquina     From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-bounces@cnc- list.com] On Behalf Of Neil Gallagher via CnC-List
 Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 2:23 AM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Cc: Neil Gallagher
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Standing Rigging Question From a Former C     
It's common to have the lowers attach directly to the spreader bracket, is it 
possible that the plate is part of the bracket? .   Further, a plain bolt 
through the mast, when tightened, could cause the walls of the mast to bend or  
collapse.  There should be a compression tube inside the mast through which the 
bolt goes to prevent that. On my mast the compression tube and bolt are 
directly in line with the spreaders, and the tang plate for the lowers is part 
of the spreader bracket.  Attaching the lowers to just a plain bolt through the 
mast doesn't seem advisable. 
 
 Neil Gallagher
 Weatherly, 35-1
 Glen Cove, NY
 
   On 11/16/2017 9:24 PM, bobmor99 . via CnC-List wrote:  
  Hurricane Irma claimed Ox, my beloved 33-1.    In its place I now have a 1979 
Cal-31.   I am hoping for some sympathy-advice regarding the standing rigging 
on my new boat.   Below is the as yet unanswered question I posted on the Cal 
user group site:   ---Greetings,  My new-to-me 31 came with an oversized, 
uninstalled, brand new set of shrouds.  The mast ends have beefy eye fittings.  
The existing lowers terminate with jaws that connect to rectangular plates 
(port  and stbd) that are bolted together through the mast.  I am wondering if 
the intent was to do away with the plates and run the bolt directly through the 
four eyes (two eyes on each side, of course).  :-)  Any thoughts or ideas are 
most welcomed.  Cheers,  --Bob M          
 
 
  __ _   Thanks everyone for 
supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is greatly 
appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/ stumurray   
     __ _
 
 Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/ stumurray
 
 

 __ _
 
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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/ stumurray
 
 
 
  
  
  
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to send 

Stus-List One other question....

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

On the slider, there is a piece of teak that is used to push open & pull closed 
the hatch from the outside.  

I'd like to replace that with something more maintenance free, and I'm thinking 
either something like a bar of starboard or PVC.
What would you recommend?  

Thanks! Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+"Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Stus-List Removing companionway slider plexiglass, C 37/40+

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I am going to replace the plexiglass on my companionway.  The sliding part is 
easy.  However, for the fixed portion forward of slider, it is stuck down to 
fiberglass.  I am guessing that it was originally installed with Plexus like 
the fixed ports on the side were done.
Can anyone confirm that?  

As for removing the plexi, should I simply tap a few putty knives in between 
the plexi and the fiberglass to pop it loose, or do you have a better idea?
Then seal with VHB tape, correct?  This area seems to be about 1 1/2" wide by 
comparison to the fixed ports.
Thanks for the insights! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Stus-List Does anyone know the type of black plastic (Marelon?) stanchion base used on my C?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

It is a 1994 C 37/40+.  

I have one stanchion base that is cracked that I'd like to replace.
Thanks! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Stus-List Mast Boot Tape

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I was wondering if some of you may have some insights regarding mast boot tape. 
 We have had a slight leak around the base of the mast since we bought the boat 
in February.  I pulled off a mass of old tape which was peeling anyway, and 
applied Rubbaweld Mast Boot Tape with somewhat marginal success (it was my 
first attempt). In that since I was doing the job single handed, I had to start 
by taping the end of the tape to the mast with duct tape to hold it while I 
pulled it tight.  I also found it was kind of a pain to have to pull off liner 
from the tape surface simultaneously while pulling on the tape hard enough to 
activate the adhesive and get it to bind.  It was also pretty difficult to get 
a good span from the base of the mast deck entrance to the mast itself, and I 
had difficulty getting the tape to fuse into a nice tight end.  In the end, the 
stuff appears to be about the same as what came off, which looked perpetually 
dirty.  

I understand this is mostly an issue of user error, but It seems to me there 
must be a better solution.
For example, anyone ever try white shrinkwrap tape?  It would seem ideal - 
waterproof, sticks to boat hulls well, doesn't leave sticky residue, is UV 
resistant, and would stay much cleaner. 

Any other solutions?  
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Mast Boot Tape

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Agreed as to sealing the slot, but the nice thing is on ours that the spar 
manufacturer thoughtfully filled the slot below the boom vang attachment, so it 
makes for a nice smooth penetration through the deck.  

Still wondering about better tape options, though...
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Neil Andersen via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>; "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Neil Andersen <neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 3:22 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Boot Tape
   
Also don’t forget that if you are keel stepped AND have a mast slot for slugs 
on your mainsail luff.  Darn near impossible to seal that channel with just the 
boot tape. 
Neil Andersen20691 Jamieson RdRock Hall, MD 21661From: CnC-List 
<cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> on behalf of Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 3:13:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Boot Tape Under “other solutions,” I use a Spartite 
plug at the partners which, in addition to holding the mast in place, also 
keeps water out. From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List Sent: Monday, November 13, 
2017 2:25 PMTo: C List Cc: Bruce Whitmore Subject: Stus-List Mast Boot Tape 
Hello all, I was wondering if some of you may have some insights regarding mast 
boot tape.  We have had a slight leak around the base of the mast since we 
bought the boat in February.  I pulled off a mass of old tape which was peeling 
anyway, and applied Rubbaweld Mast Boot Tape with somewhat marginal success (it 
was my first attempt). In that since I was doing the job single handed, I had 
to start by taping the end of the tape to the mast with duct tape to hold it 
while I pulled it tight.  I also found it was kind of a pain to have to pull 
off liner from the tape surface simultaneously while pulling on the tape hard 
enough to activate the adhesive and get it to bind.  It was also pretty 
difficult to get a good span from the base of the mast deck entrance to the 
mast itself, and I had difficulty getting the tape to fuse into a nice tight 
end.  In the end, the stuff appears to be about the same as what came off, 
which looked perpetually dirty. 
 I understand this is mostly an issue of user error, but It seems to me there 
must be a better solution. For example, anyone ever try white shrinkwrap tape?  
It would seem ideal - waterproof, sticks to boat hulls well, doesn't leave 
sticky residue, is UV resistant, and would stay much cleaner.
 Any other solutions?  
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Lost at sea...um , yeah

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

ROFLMAO!  

That's a classic... 

Thanks for sharing! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Frederick G Street 
 Sent: Friday, November 3, 2017 9:15 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Lost at sea...um , yeah
   
That’s hilarious!  Made my Friday.
— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Nov 3, 2017, at 2:36 AM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List  
wrote:
Great deal on a 50 ish footer: 
https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/boa/d/50-foot-sailboat/6370727567.html

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Stus-List Raymarine instrument covers

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,  

We got to the boat over the weekend and found one of the small square 
instrument covers for our Raymarine instruments (ST60+, etc.) had evidently got 
blown off.  One was gone, another was loose.  

These things are $20+ shipping.  Pretty stupidly priced for a piece of plastic 
IMHO.  

I don't necessarily mind replacing one of them, but I'm concerned about having 
to do so multiple times.

Anyone have a better solution?
Thanks! Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Stus-List Wet core around swing keel stop, 1994 C 37/40+

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
We have a relatively new to us C 37/40+ with a swing keel.  There is a keel 
stop on the deck which amounts to a stainless steel tube mounted to a plate, 
welded over (mostly) at one end, with 8 bolts going through the plate and a 
thick plastic block.  I noticed the bolts were a little loose, and removed it 
today with the idea of rebedding the whole thing and tightening the bolts.
As we were reassembling, I noticed water dripping down the bolts and the 
underside of the deck deforming due to the wet core.
I drilled a few holes from the bottom to allow any remaining water to drip out, 
and Florida warmth & sun (to return in another couple months) to bake the 
moisture out, and dry out the deck.  Thankfully, when I drilled the holes, the 
balsa that came out of the hole with the drill bit was, by and large, fresh 
looking, with little black mold, though there was some brownish water that was 
dripping out.  

Have any of you had this problem, and what have you done to resolve it?  I am 
aware of the idea of drilling holes, drying out the balsa and injecting 
penetrating epoxy, followed by thickened epoxy to fill any voids.
Just wondering if I'm on the right track... 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Darn.  Already sold. Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Bruce Whitmore <bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net>
 Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 8:46 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+
   
Great idea Ken!
Thank you very much.  I had totally forgotten about "The Third Wave".  I have 
reached out to Eric.
This list is worth every bit of my donation - and more! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Ken Heaton via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Ken Heaton <kenhea...@gmail.com>; Tom Buscaglia <t...@sv-alera.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 5:18 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+
  
So it looks like Bruce has Lewmar Size 2 Track?  30 mm wide?
https://www.lewmar.com/node/ 18461?v=26011
https://www.lewmar.com/store? field_category[]=7_ 
hardware_type[]=173_ product_range[]=228_ 
product_range[]=208_ boat_type[]=11=0=4=1& o=d
https://www.lewmar.com/store? field_category[]=7_ 
hardware_type[]=173_ product_range[]=228_car_ 
type[]=281=0=4=1=d
Bruce, by any chance, did you get in touch with Shining Waters Marine, who 
recently scrapped C 37R Hull No. 4, "The Third Wave" to see what make of 
Genoa Track hardware was on her?  You may be able to get a good deal if it that 
boat had what you need to put this together.
eric.sm...@shiningwaters.ca


Ken Heaton


On 19 December 2017 at 22:20, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Yep, those are Lewmar tracks

Here's the car, but no idea where the rest of it is

https://www.lewmar.com/node/14 629?v=27113



At 04:44 PM 12/19/2017, you wrote:

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 19:43:22 -0500
From: Eric Baumes <eric.bau...@gmail.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+
Message-ID:

Re: Stus-List adjustable cars

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi Barry,
You are spot on with your thoughts - I don't race, but I do like to daysail and 
cruise for speed.  I also like the idea of being able to spill wind out the top 
and/or adjust the car after reefing the headsail.  That said, it's not worth 
$1,000 to me.  So, when I thought I could get them from Garhauer, I was 
thrilled.  Now that I'm having to look at Lewmar (Eric had already sold the 
ones from the 37R), at over $900, the blush is coming off the rose.

It's the balance we must have between what we want vs. what we'll get... Bruce 
Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Barry Lenoble via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Barry Lenoble <leno...@optonline.net>
 Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 9:08 AM
 Subject: Stus-List adjustable cars
   
Hey,

If you don't race, I question need for line adjustable cars. 

The boat I race on has them, and they work well. We have three headsails to
pick from, and not all courses are windward / leeward, so we do adjust the
cars during the race.

I don't race my boat (that seriously anyway) and I don't have line
adjustable cars. I have a single headsail, and the cars stay in one position
about 90% of the time. If I could upgrade to line adjustable cars for a low
price (say under $400) I would. However, if the price is going to be over
$1000 I question the value the adjustable cars provide.

-Do you have multiple headsails? Do you change them frequently? Do you have
roller furling / reefing and frequently sail with the genoa reefed? If the
answer to those questions is yes then you would probably benefit from the
line adjustable cars. If not, then my suggestion is to just forget it.

Good luck,
Barry

Barry Lenoble
leno...@optonline.net
Deep Blue C, C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY




On 19 December 2017 at 16:34, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Hello all,

I was wondering if you folks might be able to give me some guidance.  I
ordered adjustable Genoa track cars from Garhauer, and even sent them a
photo of the track.  When they got here, the cars won't fit - they will not
even slide over the track.  I sent new photos to Garhauer, and Guido looked
at them and informed me that not only do they not make adjustable cars that
fit, they can't even custom make them.

Have you folks obtained adjustable cars, and if so, from where?

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092<tel:(847)%20404-5092> (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net<mailto:bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net>



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Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Great idea Ken!
Thank you very much.  I had totally forgotten about "The Third Wave".  I have 
reached out to Eric.
This list is worth every bit of my donation - and more! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Ken Heaton via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list  
Cc: Ken Heaton ; Tom Buscaglia 
 Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 5:18 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+
   
So it looks like Bruce has Lewmar Size 2 Track?  30 mm wide?
https://www.lewmar.com/node/ 18461?v=26011
https://www.lewmar.com/store? field_category[]=7_ 
hardware_type[]=173_ product_range[]=228_ 
product_range[]=208_ boat_type[]=11=0=4=1& o=d
https://www.lewmar.com/store? field_category[]=7_ 
hardware_type[]=173_ product_range[]=228_car_ 
type[]=281=0=4=1=d
Bruce, by any chance, did you get in touch with Shining Waters Marine, who 
recently scrapped C 37R Hull No. 4, "The Third Wave" to see what make of 
Genoa Track hardware was on her?  You may be able to get a good deal if it that 
boat had what you need to put this together.
eric.sm...@shiningwaters.ca


Ken Heaton


On 19 December 2017 at 22:20, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Yep, those are Lewmar tracks

Here's the car, but no idea where the rest of it is

https://www.lewmar.com/node/14 629?v=27113



At 04:44 PM 12/19/2017, you wrote:

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 19:43:22 -0500
From: Eric Baumes 
To: cnc-list 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+
Message-ID:

Stus-List Propane solenoid gets quite hot

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I did a propane leak-down test recently, and in addition to replacing the 
pigtail from a relatively new regulator to the tank, I decided to replace the 
hose to the solenoid, and the solenoid itself (the old one was functioning but 
was quite rusty).
After replacing the solenoid, on energizing it, it became quite hot after a 
while (measuring +/- 170 degrees) which of course got me quite concerned.  

Yet, upon researching the issue, I found this to be quite common, and is a 
function of the solenoid being an electromagnet.  

More information can be found here:
Product Review by Better Marine Services

  
|  
|   |  
Product Review by Better Marine Services
 Better Marine Services Offers the Best Marine Electrical Service, Mechanical 
Troubleshooting, Computer Systems, ...  |  |

  |

 
Propane solenoid gets hot - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
  
|  
|   |  
Propane solenoid gets hot - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
 I just noticed tonight that the solenoid on my propane system was hot to the 
touch. Never checked or noticed but...  |  |

  |

 
Even the solenoid manufacturer (US Solid) references the fact that the solenoid 
is not designed to be run for more than 8 hours straight and will become hot.
The unit draws about 2 amps of power.
The idea of a switch that is designed as a safety device to control propane 
getting hot just doesn't seem right in my book!
Does anyone have a better solution?  

Yes, I manually turn the tank on & off when leaving the boat...
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Stus-List Time for new halyard... Recommendations?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
We have a 1994 C 37/40+.  We've owned the boat for about a year.  The 
halyards are badly faded from the sun, and we noticed an area where the core is 
showing at the eye splice around the shackles.  The current halyards are 
Sta-Set X.
We don't race, so super high-tech line is unnecessary, but that doesn't mean I 
want have to re-tension the halyards when I'm sailing, either.  

On my last boat (a C 27 MKIII), I tried the Sta-Set X 15 years ago or so, and 
didn't like the feel, and I think I remember the line slipping in the clutches 
as well.   That has not been the case on this boat, but the line is old...
I've seen some recommendations for NE Ropes VPC.

What do you recommend for halyards and why?
Thanks!  
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madeira Beach, FL 34677
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List New lines and hayalards

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I'm hoping Chuck or others can chime in on this - At Cajun Ropes, they show the 
XLE for halyards, and have a reasonable price for the halyards pre-made.  How 
does the XLE compare with New England Ropes Sta-Set X as far as elongation and 
the feel is concerned?
I find the Sta-Set X to be stiff, though not untenable on our boat currently.  
If you would recommend the Argus, do you know someone who would premake the 
halyards to the length I want at a reasonably low price?  

Thanks! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:02 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List New lines and hayalards
   
Cajun uses Novabraid Rope for their sheets and Halyards. Novabraid makes a 
blended Spectra core rope called Argus that is less stretchy than polyester 
double braid.  It’s what I use for halyards on Half Magic.  XLE is my choice 
for jib sheets and Novalite HP for Spinnaker Sheets.  All Canadian made 
too!Full disclosure, I work for Novatec Braids Ltd in marketing and product 
development...
Chuck Gilchrest Half Magic1983 35 Landfall Padanaram MA

Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 11, 2018, at 7:26 AM, ROD STRIGHT via CnC-List  
wrote:



#yiv5037167466 #yiv5037167466 -- _filtered #yiv5037167466 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 
6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5037167466 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 
3 2 4;}#yiv5037167466 #yiv5037167466 p.yiv5037167466MsoNormal, #yiv5037167466 
li.yiv5037167466MsoNormal, #yiv5037167466 div.yiv5037167466MsoNormal 
{margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv5037167466
 a:link, #yiv5037167466 span.yiv5037167466MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5037167466 a:visited, #yiv5037167466 
span.yiv5037167466MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5037167466 
p.yiv5037167466msonormal0, #yiv5037167466 li.yiv5037167466msonormal0, 
#yiv5037167466 div.yiv5037167466msonormal0 
{margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv5037167466
 span.yiv5037167466EmailStyle19 
{font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none
 none;}#yiv5037167466 .yiv5037167466MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered 
#yiv5037167466 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv5037167466 
div.yiv5037167466WordSection1 {}#yiv5037167466 Check out Cajun Ropes in 
Yarmouth.  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of T 
power via CnC-List
Sent: January 11, 2018 7:30 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: T power 
Subject: Stus-List New lines and hayalards  Hello everyone,  I'm thinking of 
replacing all of the sheets and halyards on Invictus, hoping for some insight.  
 Dennis of Touche posted a note about color designation that I thought was 
interesting but I forgot to copy it.  Looking for recommendations of size type 
and color of lines and halyards for a cruising sailboat that may enter a fun 
club race once in a while.  Thanks for any help,  Cheers.  Tom PowerInvictusC 
30 MK1Fredericton, NB


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Re: Stus-List New lines and hayalards

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I see Chuck posted a response just as I was asking the question below.  Sorry 
to have this cross in the ether...
That said, I'd be interested in your thoughts as to a source for Argus..
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Bruce Whitmore <bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net>
 Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 12:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List New lines and hayalards
   
I'm hoping Chuck or others can chime in on this - At Cajun Ropes, they show the 
XLE for halyards, and have a reasonable price for the halyards pre-made.  How 
does the XLE compare with New England Ropes Sta-Set X as far as elongation and 
the feel is concerned?
I find the Sta-Set X to be stiff, though not untenable on our boat currently.  
If you would recommend the Argus, do you know someone who would premake the 
halyards to the length I want at a reasonably low price?  

Thanks! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest <csgilchr...@comcast.net>
 Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 8:02 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List New lines and hayalards
  
Cajun uses Novabraid Rope for their sheets and Halyards. Novabraid makes a 
blended Spectra core rope called Argus that is less stretchy than polyester 
double braid.  It’s what I use for halyards on Half Magic.  XLE is my choice 
for jib sheets and Novalite HP for Spinnaker Sheets.  All Canadian made 
too!Full disclosure, I work for Novatec Braids Ltd in marketing and product 
development...
Chuck Gilchrest Half Magic1983 35 Landfall Padanaram MA

Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 11, 2018, at 7:26 AM, ROD STRIGHT via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:



#yiv3049792962 -- filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv3049792962 
filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv3049792962 
p.yiv3049792962MsoNormal, #yiv3049792962 li.yiv3049792962MsoNormal, 
#yiv3049792962 div.yiv3049792962MsoNormal 
{margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv3049792962
 a:link, #yiv3049792962 span.yiv3049792962MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3049792962 a:visited, #yiv3049792962 
span.yiv3049792962MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3049792962 
p.yiv3049792962msonormal0, #yiv3049792962 li.yiv3049792962msonormal0, 
#yiv3049792962 div.yiv3049792962msonormal0 
{margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv3049792962
 span.yiv3049792962EmailStyle19 
{font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none
 none;}#yiv3049792962 .yiv3049792962MsoChpDefault 
{font-size:10.0pt;}#yiv3049792962 filtered {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 
72.0pt;}#yiv3049792962 div.yiv3049792962WordSection1 {}#yiv3049792962 Check out 
Cajun Ropes in Yarmouth.  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] 
On Behalf Of T power via CnC-List
Sent: January 11, 2018 7:30 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: T power <sv_invic...@outlook.com>
Subject: Stus-List New lines and hayalards  Hello everyone,  I'm thinking of 
replacing all of the sheets and halyards on Invictus, hoping for some insight.  
 Dennis of Touche posted a note about color designation that I thought was 
interesting but I forgot to copy it.  Looking for recommendations of size type 
and color of lines and halyards for a cruising sailboat that may enter a fun 
club race once in a while.  Thanks for any help,  Cheers.  Tom PowerInvictusC 
30 MK1Fredericton, NB


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   ___

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Re: Stus-List Time for new halyard... Recommendations?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I know a number of folks have recommended Cajun Ropes, but I don't know their 
line manufacturer/specs.
What are folks thoughts about them?
Thanks! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Joel Aronson <joel.aron...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 9:46 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Time for new halyard... Recommendations?
   
VPC is a compromise between stretch and price.  It is stiff, but not as stiff 
as X.  I used it on my 35, and we had to use the cunningham after the sail 
loaded up.  For my 44, I bought Endura on sale, went down a size (3/8) and am 
very happy with it.
Joel
On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:34 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Samson braid. I like it 
On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:48 AM Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hello all,
We have a 1994 C 37/40+.  We've owned the boat for about a year.  The 
halyards are badly faded from the sun, and we noticed an area where the core is 
showing at the eye splice around the shackles.  The current halyards are 
Sta-Set X.
We don't race, so super high-tech line is unnecessary, but that doesn't mean I 
want have to re-tension the halyards when I'm sailing, either.  

On my last boat (a C 27 MKIII), I tried the Sta-Set X 15 years ago or so, and 
didn't like the feel, and I think I remember the line slipping in the clutches 
as well.   That has not been the case on this boat, but the line is old...
I've seen some recommendations for NE Ropes VPC.

What do you recommend for halyards and why?
Thanks!  
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madeira Beach, FL 34677
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551___

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Stus-List Outhaul replacement, C 37/40+

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
Our outhaul is faded and ready for replacement.  Currently, it is comprised of 
Sta-Set braided to wire, and the wire is then formed around a small thimble as 
it attaches to a car in the slot on the boom.  A photo can be found here:  
Outhaul.jpg.

  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
||  
Outhaul.jpg
 Shared with Dropbox  |   |

  |

  |

 
I'd like to just go with a decent line and avoid the whole splice, thimble & 
nicopress fitting idea.  I should have enough room for a simple knot and still 
have enough travel.  But, I need to convert the attachment to the sliding car.  
I'm thinking, however, that if I tie a 3/8 or 7/16" line to a larger shackle, 
it may apply too much sideways pull on the hole in the car.    Has anyone else 
dealt with this on a C 37/40+ with a similar boom & wire rope setup?  

By the way, I really like the Novabraid Argus or NE Ropes VPC due to the 
"nubby" cover that grabs nicely in my clutches.  The current clutch slips 
slightly on my very old and tired outhaul, but I'm not sure a Argus or VPC to 
wire braid is either possible or even desirable. 

Thanks for the advice! Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+
Madeira Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List C Water tank hatch covers

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
Below is the text from a post I made earlier this year regarding the caps for 
C water tanks:
After striking out at our local RV store and online searches, I called Kracor 
tanks.  They told me in no uncertain terms they only work with boat 
manufacturers, not individuals.  They tried to tell me to call C  Finally I 
got connected with someone back in the shop who directed me to: 

Claires Marine Outfitters2921 SW 2nd Ave, 
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33315(954) 523-4301
They had them in stock, $10 apiece plus shipping.
You may want to make a note of this if you think you'll need a cap someday.
As it turns out the lip on one of my caps is bent up, and as a result the cap 
itself is leaking through a crack.  Thus the need for the replacement.  

By the way, I took the advice of getting x type o-rings, and for about $10 I 
got a package of 10.  They work great and seal much better than the original 
gasket/o-rings.  I got them through McMaster Carr.  

Thanks everyone for the help, 
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+"Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

  From: Wade Glew via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Wade Glew 
 Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 1:50 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List C Water tank hatch covers
   
I had to replace these on a C 30 Mk II a few years ago. It was a 1986 but I 
believe C had the same tank manufacturer forever. The company name was 
embossed faintly on the screw on port caps which I then used to Google search 
and source new ones (which were very inexpensive by the way). If my memory 
serves me (less so anymore) the name was Krakor?  I can look on my boat this 
weekendWade33 Mk IIOh Boy
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 07:01 Nathan Post via CnC-List,  
wrote:

The domestic fresh water tank (I assume original) on my 1981 C 34 has two 
ports in the top with screw in covers with 3.5" diameter threads.  The covers 
have degraded to the point that they no longer thread in (the plastic has 
shrunk - probably due to a chemical used by the previous owner or perhaps just 
time and heat.  The outer threads seem to be in good shape but I have been 
unable to find a replacement port cover of the same size.  Any suggestions on 
there on where to find these covers so I don't need to cut the whole thing out 
and install new plate assemblies?
NathanS/V Wisper1981 C 34
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Re: Stus-List Best way to clean Ram-mic connector pins?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Well answered, Josh.  My experience exactly.  
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 11:48 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Best way to clean Ram-mic connector pins?
   
I have had numerous issues with pins and socket connections in the past.  I do 
not have the magic bullet answer but instead a few things which in combination 
with one another have solved my problems.
-Cooper (and other metals) can be effectively cleaned of oxidation with white 
vinegar (or other available mild acid solutions).  Apply conservatively and 
rinse thoroughly.  I like rinsing with distilled water and then high percentage 
alcohol.
-CRC and other companies make a contact cleaner spray.  I don't have any 
particular experience with them since I never seem to have jt available but the 
galley vinegar is close by.
-If the pins are corroded, imagine what the sockets look like.  I have found 
that an acetylene torch cleaning file set OR a micro drill bit set is 
invaluable.  In a pinch I've also used single strands of old wire rope and even 
guitar strings.  Again, mild acid, rinse, dry.
-Sometimes the pin holes (socket) get weakened and slightly wallowed.  A 
jeweler's screwdriver can sometimes get down between the plastic body and the 
metal pin to gently close the socket SLIGHTLY.
-Corrosion happened because of moisture.  Eliminate the cause of the moisture 
and you will likely never have the problem again.  Most electronics 
manufacturers will tell you "clean and dry" connections... To which I say, make 
a better connector so that they stay "clean and dry".  Many contacts are gold 
or nickel plated and typically won't corrode...until the metal on metal 
interface wears through the plating.  So once you have corrosion you know 2 
things.  The OEM failed to produce a water tight connector and the contacts are 
no longer corrosion resistant.  This is where I justify using dielectric 
silicone grease.  The grease will lubricate and rejuvenate whatever watertight 
gasket was provided by the OEM.  Additionally, application of grease to the 
female side of the connector ensures that water and air will no longer be able 
to interface with the metal contacts, specifically those where the plating has 
been worn away.  Some people argue that "dielectric" means non-conductive, and 
they are correct.  They also argue that the grease attracts dirt, again 
correct.  These are absolutely things that need to be weighed but as long as 
the connector is being kept tight dirt isn't an issue.  As long as the pins and 
sockets have a good mechanical interface the metal on metal pushes through the 
grease.  In addition the grease will lubricate and may minimize further wear on 
the remaining plating.
-If all of these options fail, don't forget the OEM for warranty or repair 
service. 
-Finally, check out mouser.com for all types of connectors.  You probably would 
be able to find a match to the OEM but you can certainly find an alternative 
and quite possibly one which is better than the OEM.
Good luck,
Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+Solomons, MD 



On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 10:59 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  
wrote:

Persistence has a Standard Horizon GX2150 VHF with a cockpit mounted Ram mic.   
The connection is becoming intermittent and I have noticed oxidization in the 
boat side socket.   What is the best way to clean the oxidization from these 
pins?  I think the pins are copper and the oxidization is green and likely the 
source of my poor connection. I wish to clean but not damage the plastic 
housing or short the connectors when the ram mic is plugged in. Am assuming the 
brain trust has dealt with this many times before Thanks 
MikePersistenceHalifax, NS___

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Re: Stus-List Centre board

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I use our board virtually every time we go out, and this is due to the fact 
that western Florida is so shallow that there's no way I can get to my slip 
with the board down except maybe at a high tide.  Certainly, it MUST be up when 
were in the slip, as low-low tides will cause the boat to touch bottom even 
with the board up.
And, when daysailing, the light air down here tends to make me want to point 
relatively high, as our C 37/40+ gets the most speed in light air when were 
sailing almost on the nock, and we've found that having the board down 
substantively reduces the rocking of the boat when large fishing boats go 
speeding past us to get to deeper water (which happens a lot as we get close to 
John's Pass).
I've not had the boat out of the water other than the initial survey (I've 
owned the boat about 16 months and the bottom is not yet ready for repainting). 
 I'm curious about pulling the plate to check out the centerboard cable.  I 
understand I may not see much, but of course if I found a broken strand or two 
in the wire, I'd put replacing the cable on the "emergency' list.
For those of you who know this boat, is there any downside to trying to pull 
the plate?  Can it be done in the water?  

Sorry, I just can't envision it in my head at the moment...
Thanks!
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madeira Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: T Sutton via CnC-List 
 To: Persuasion37 via CnC-List  
Cc: T Sutton 
 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Centre board
   
FWIW I do the opposite, I put the board down after lift in and it stays down 
most the time.  I might try raising it if I'm not trying to point but mostly 
if I am approaching shallow water.  I'm on Lake Huron so it's clean fresh 
water and although I've had the boat only 4 years I have had the inspection 
plate off which gives limited access to the pendant and sheave and it all 
appears to be fine.  I find it a huge advantage and peace of mind when 
heading to the North Channel and being able to reduce my draft by 2 feet.

Tom S
33 Mk II KC/B

-Original Message- 
From: Danny Haughey
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 11:46 AM
To: Persuasion37 via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Centre board

I probably set my CB down 3 or 4 times a year.  It really helps pointing
and stiffens the boat.  we don't go very far currently but I'm assuming
when we start to venture further it will see more use.

Danny
Tartan 40 (ex viking 33 owner)
Mattapoisett, MA


On 6/28/2018 11:20 AM, Persuasion37 via CnC-List wrote:
> To all you keel/centre board owners, I’m wondering how many of you 
> actually use the centre board?
>
> Some of you may recall that the pendant let go somewhere in the Bahamas in 
> 14/15.  Fortunately the board was jammed up inside and had been for a 
> number of years.  Upon my return to Canada I removed the board and it has 
> been in my garage ever since.  Long story short it is repaired and I am 
> ready to re-install the board.  I’m thinking of just pinning the board in 
> the up position.  I have all the hardware but I’ve only had the board 
> deployed 3 times in 12 years.  This should also relieve any maintenance 
> issues.  Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance for the feedback.
>
> Mike
> PERSUASION
> C 37 K/CB
> Long Sault
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - 
> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>




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Re: Stus-List Centre board

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Yeah, I kind of thought about as much, but as I said, I couldn't really picture 
where it was in my mind.
Thanks!  Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Edd Schillay 
 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 12:30 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Centre board
   
Bruce,
If you mean the plate below your floorboards, do not open it while in the water 
— it’s below the water line and you will sink the boat. 

All the best,
Edd

Edd M. SchillayStarship EnterpriseC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-BCity Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log


 



On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:10 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
 wrote:
I use our board virtually every time we go out, and this is due to the fact 
that western Florida is so shallow that there's no way I can get to my slip 
with the board down except maybe at a high tide.  Certainly, it MUST be up when 
were in the slip, as low-low tides will cause the boat to touch bottom even 
with the board up.
And, when daysailing, the light air down here tends to make me want to point 
relatively high, as our C 37/40+ gets the most speed in light air when were 
sailing almost on the nock, and we've found that having the board down 
substantively reduces the rocking of the boat when large fishing boats go 
speeding past us to get to deeper water (which happens a lot as we get close to 
John's Pass).
I've not had the boat out of the water other than the initial survey (I've 
owned the boat about 16 months and the bottom is not yet ready for repainting). 
 I'm curious about pulling the plate to check out the centerboard cable.  I 
understand I may not see much, but of course if I found a broken strand or two 
in the wire, I'd put replacing the cable on the "emergency' list.
For those of you who know this boat, is there any downside to trying to pull 
the plate?  Can it be done in the water?  

Sorry, I just can't envision it in my head at the moment...
Thanks!
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madeira Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: T Sutton via CnC-List 
 To: Persuasion37 via CnC-List  
Cc: T Sutton 
 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 11:01 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Centre board
  
FWIW I do the opposite, I put the board down after lift in and it stays down 
most the time.  I might try raising it if I'm not trying to point but mostly 
if I am approaching shallow water.  I'm on Lake Huron so it's clean fresh 
water and although I've had the boat only 4 years I have had the inspection 
plate off which gives limited access to the pendant and sheave and it all 
appears to be fine.  I find it a huge advantage and peace of mind when 
heading to the North Channel and being able to reduce my draft by 2 feet.

Tom S
33 Mk II KC/B

-Original Message- 
From: Danny Haughey
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 11:46 AM
To: Persuasion37 via CnC-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Centre board

I probably set my CB down 3 or 4 times a year.  It really helps pointing
and stiffens the boat.  we don't go very far currently but I'm assuming
when we start to venture further it will see more use.

Danny
Tartan 40 (ex viking 33 owner)
Mattapoisett, MA


On 6/28/2018 11:20 AM, Persuasion37 via CnC-List wrote:
> To all you keel/centre board owners, I’m wondering how many of you 
> actually use the centre board?
>
> Some of you may recall that the pendant let go somewhere in the Bahamas in 
> 14/15.  Fortunately the board was jammed up inside and had been for a 
> number of years.  Upon my return to Canada I removed the board and it has 
> been in my garage ever since.  Long story short it is repaired and I am 
> ready to re-install the board.  I’m thinking of just pinning the board in 
> the up position.  I have all the hardware but I’ve only had the board 
> deployed 3 times in 12 years.  This should also relieve any maintenance 
> issues.  Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance for the feedback.
>
> Mike
> PERSUASION
> C 37 K/CB
> Long Sault
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - 
> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>




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Thanks eve

Re: Stus-List Free Sails for C 37+

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,
I think I may be interested, but will need to get to the boat to do some 
measuring over the weekend.
Will let you know shortly, 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 9:49 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Free Sails for C 37+
   
I got a chance to go through the sails that Bacon claimed to be "delaminating" 
and "of no value".  I'm not a professional sail maker (or sailor for that 
matter) but both sails looked to be in perfectly fine condition.  They might be 
equivalent to a 2 or 3 year old race sail.  No delamination anywhere.  As Ron 
described one is a 98% and the other is a 155%.  The 98% has partial battens.  
The 155% is radial cut.  Both are a mylar/kevlar material and very light by 
comparison to my 7.5 oz cloth %145.  The sail bags appear to be in worse 
condition than the sails.  I'll be holding the sails until Ron picks them up in 
October.  If anybody is interested between now and then, just let me or Ron 
know.
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, MD
On Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 12:17 PM Josh Muckley  wrote:

For anyone else considering these sails, feel free to reach out to me.  I've 
agree to hold on to them for Ron but will likely never use them.  I have the 
triple spreader rig and have had a new sail made for my boat.  It's luff length 
is 51' 2.5".  I had it cut slightly short so that it would ride slightly above 
the deck and lifelines.  Thus, Ron's sails measuring at 51' 5" would mate with 
my furler just fine.  I believe that the second sail with a 52' luff would need 
to be flown without the furler drum or swivel (or both).
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, MD



On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 1:50 PM Ron Ricci via CnC-List  
wrote:

I have two jibs that I don’t use and will give them to anyone willing to pick 
them up in Annapolis, MD.  Below are links to photos and specs for each sail.·  
 98% Kevlar Jib - https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhpB-lul9d5YrkeG82Ht0IpjLOc5o   Luff 
= 51'-5"o   Foot = 15'-8"o   Leach = 49'·   155% Light Kevlar Genoa - 
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhpB-lul9d5YrkZsSamLMQtUGi1yo   Luff = 52'o   Foot = 
24'-9"o   Leach = 50'-6"I took these sails to Bacon Sails last March and after 
several inquiries they finally said the sails had no value because supposedly 
they were de-laminating.  When I left the sails off, the preliminary inspection 
did not show any delamination nor did I see any when the photos were taken.  It 
is not practical for me to pick up the sails and it would be a shame to dispose 
of them.  I’d feel much better if someone could put them to good use (or at 
least store them in their attic).   Please contact me off line ASAP if you are 
interested.  I will make arrangements so you can pick up one or both.  
Thanks,RonRon RicciS/V PatriotC 37+Bristol, 
riron.ri...@1968.usna.com___

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Re: Stus-List recommendations for a small bilge pump

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I have to agree with Danny.  I mounted a Whale Gusher and it does a much better 
job of sucking the bilge dry than any of the centrifugal pumps that start 
picking up air earlier and then cannot pull any more water out.  Those always 
seem to allow a lot of backflow, and a backflow preventer valve only adds 
restrictions, thus slowing the flow.  

Though the Whale Gulper is not rated nearly as high from a gallons per hour 
basis, judging from the time it takes to empty a nearly full bilge I get the 
impression that its real life performance is nearly as good as the small 
centrifugals.
Just my $.02 worth...
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Danny Haughey via CnC-List 
 To: Eric Frank via CnC-List  
Cc: Danny Haughey 
 Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 4:53 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List recommendations for a small bilge pump
   
 Oh And on the Viking, I used 2 Whale gusher pumps.  I mounted them High and 
dry in a locker and was able to suck the water out with hose led into the 
bilge.  If you can make the pump you high point and go gravity from there, you 
might actually be able to get the water level down very low with little 
backflow.   I have to say, it is nice getting the pumps and the wiring out of 
the bilge.  I plan on doing this same setup someday on the tartan.
  
 On 6/20/2018 4:26 PM, Eric Frank via CnC-List wrote:
  
 
The automatic bilge pump in Cat’s Paw is fairly old (2011) and although it 
still works fine, it requires a separate float switch (also old) which is 
located in a shallower part of the bilge so leaves about 4 inches of water at 
the pump when it turns off.  I am looking for a replacement that has the water 
level switch in the pump.  There are lots of these for sale, but what is the 
list’s recommendation?  The old pump is a Shurflo (sp?) 355-100-00, rated at 
1000 gals/hr, - the label says it draws 7.35 amps (but I haven’t measured it).  
Is Shurflo even made any more? I see Rule pumps and lots of brands I have never 
heard of on line. The automatic pumps I found online leave about 2 inches of 
water - is that the best we can do? And what pumps last well?  Advice welcome.
 
  Eric Frank
 Cat's Paw, C 35 Mk II
 Mattapoisett, MA  
  
  
 ___

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 ___

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Re: Stus-List Cleaning cabin teak prior to varnish application

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all, 

FYI, I am starting to learn more about the cabin teak on our 1994 C 37/40+.  
I noticed when we bought the boat that the interior looked much more "blonde" 
color than other teak interiors.  In addition, there are a number of areas 
where the wood shows light water stains.  The finish itself allows the grain to 
be both felt and seen.  After trying varnish in a few inconspicous places, I 
noticed it darkened the color to a traditional teak look.  Beautiful, but 
getting everything that color was going to involve a major redo of the entire 
interior.  I then tried traditional danish oil.  This time, I could see and 
feel the grain as was the case with the rest of the boat, but again it darkened 
the wood (but not as much as the varnish).  

Then, I tried lacquer.  It did not darken the wood, and I also (finally!) 
figured out that I could remove the old Lacquer finish with a 50/50 mix of 
lacquer thinner and denatured alcohol.  

So, for those of you who have the lighter finished interior, try lacquer.  It 
sits on top of the teak and does not penetrate deeply, thus not darkening the 
wood.  And, you can test if it is lacquer that needs to be removed by trying 
the thinner/alcohol approach.  

Food for thought,  Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
 Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 4:40 PM
 Subject: Stus-List Cleaning cabin teak prior to varnish application
   
Have decided to bite the bullet and brighten up my cabins by cleaning up the 
teak which has only ever been oiled—and not really that often!I am leaning 
toward using the spray on stuff from Clorox similar to ‘scrubbing bubbles’ to 
clean and remove what little oil/dirt remains before applying a polyurethane 
based ‘varnish’.This is a big job on my 1995 36’ XL/kcb—there are 3 cabins and 
several bulkheads and doors to do so I cannot obsess over the cleaning or the 
varnish application. The list has mentioned solutions with TSP, etc. but unless 
there are likely to be problems with my Clorox stuff, I prefer this premixed. 
Also what polyurethane varnish is considered the best looking with the fewest 
number of coats. 
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom


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Re: Stus-List Engine Temp Gauge Not Working

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I had a similar issue on my Yanmar 3JH2E, and finally realized that the gauge 
had been added on (though it may have been original equipment from C, it was 
not standard Yanmar equipment).  I found that the temperature buzzer sensor 
screwed directly into the engine but the gauge sensor was teed in at the 
thermostat where the water hoses left the engine to go to the water heater.
I as able to replace the sensor and the gauge with little fanfare.  In my case, 
the sensor had shorted internally, and was pegging the gauge, and when I 
replaced the sensor, the gauge then wasn't working.
Hope this helps, 
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madeira Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Al Serrato via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Al Serrato 
 Sent: Friday, April 27, 2018 12:25 PM
 Subject: Stus-List Engine Temp Gauge Not Working
   
I bought a 1981 34' with a 3GMD engine a few years ago. The temp warning buzzer 
works but the gauge has never worked, although it is in place and wired.
The Yanmar manual has a section on testing the buzzer sender unit, but I don't 
see anything about the location of the sender unit for the gauge or how to test 
it.
Looking for any advice on how to approach diagnosing the problem. Is it the 
same sender unit for both the buzzer and gauge? I haven't spent the time trying 
to trace all the wiring but was hoping to find something in the manual first 
about how the gauge is wired.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Al Serrato1981 C 34Senza FineSan Francisco Bay
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Stus-List Small lead weight "sewn" into anchor rode?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
On both of my old anchor rodes, there is a small (6 oz or so) lead weight with 
a line through the middle, with the line on both ends woven into the rode so 
that the weight stays held up against the line in place.  On one line, the 
weight is about 10 feet from the end connected to the chain.  On the other one, 
it is more like 20 feet.
What would be the purpose of these small weights?
Thanks for the insight, Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Tell me about the 35 MKIII-CB

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Here's my take on the centerboard:
We generally drop the board as soon as we are in deep enough water to ensure we 
won't touch bottom.  Here in West Florida, touching bottom is a real and 
present danger as you go in & out of harbors, and even in the intracoastal.  To 
have anything more than 5' of draft here is far less than ideal, and will limit 
your harbor choices.  Our centerboard is very heavy, and not only requires the 
winch to raise it, but the low-speed function is needed as it reaches the top 
of the board travel.
Our harbor fouls bottoms pretty quickly, but our board has never been stuck.  
That said, the boat sat for =/- 7 years with very limited use in Marco Island 
before we bought her, and we had to pry the centerboard down a little during 
the survey.
Our biggest concern is that of cable maintenance (which so far we have no real 
experience with), and braking the cable, which could result in centerboard 
damage or the inability to return to our dock until such time as we found a way 
to pull it up with other lines & winches, which given the shape of our board 
might prove problematic.  

Finally, she points like crazy with the board down!
That said, little of this may apply to your prospect boat...

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis", Madiera Beach, FL 
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: jackbrennan via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: jackbrennan 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 6:11 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Tell me about the 35 MKIII-CB
   
You'll love the shallow draft in Florida. It opens the possibility of great 
cruising that would be blocked to you with a 6-foot draft.
It's increasingly common for centerboard owners to replace the ss cable and 
Nicropress fitting with Amsteel Blue or a similar high-tech line of the same 
diameter.
On my current boat (not a C), I used an Amsteel Blue line for seven years on 
the CB before replacing it in June. The rigger said I wasted my money; the line 
was like brand-new.
The line is secured to the CB by making an eye and putting a few wraps through 
it. The tricky part is taping the line to the cable and easing it through.
Jack BrennanFormer C 25Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30Tierra Verde, Fl.






Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO

 Original message 
From: Sean Richardson via CnC-List 
Date:01/16/2018 1:37 PM (GMT-05:00) 
To: CnC-List 
Cc: Sean Richardson 
Subject: Stus-List Tell me about the 35 MKIII-CB 

Calling on the collective C brain trust! I’m giving serious consideration to 
a 35 MKIII CB and wouldappreciate any advice on what to look out for with the 
MKIII in general as wellspecifics of the center board version if anyone has 
any. The boat is single owner freshwater and by all accounts sofar appears to 
be in very good condition. She checks off many of therequirement boxes for our 
next boat but I’m a little torn on the CB with mainconcerns being how it 
effects performance/stability as well as requiredmaintenance. I’ve heard the 
center board version is quite tender. Weeventually plan to sail out the St. 
Lawrence to the Maritimes one summer, parkthe boat, then return the following 
season to continue on down the US Eastcoast (ICW) to Florida then on to the 
Bahamas. The board up shallow draft willbe good for the ICW and Bahamas portion 
but how would this boat fare in themore challenging conditions of the St 
Lawrence and Maritimes? My other concern is access to the centerboard area for 
maintenance. I would assume the slot and pivot area willrequire frequent 
attention to clean marine growth and avoid jamming the boardin either the up or 
down position. And how difficult would it be if one had toreplace the SS 
lifting strop with the boat in the water? The more I think about the center 
board the more troubles Isee down the 
road.___

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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Stopping leaks through pedestal guard feet?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,
Here's a link to the exterior view of the pedestal guard feet.  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxc37iifz7eo596/Pedestal%20Guard%20Feet.jpg?dl=0
You can see the tape which is currently keeping out most of the water.  I 
suspect the remaining water is getting in between the foot and the teak deck.  
I believe the leak currently in only on the starboard foot, as that is the only 
one with a hole for wires.    

This is making its way below, dripping onto the head area of the stern berth.  

Make sense?
What would be the best way to caulk/seal this, including the tube/foot joint?
Thanks!  
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Monday, January 15, 2018 7:06 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Stopping leaks through pedestal guard feet?
   
Bruce, 
Are you saying that the wires come through the pedestal guard tube?  And exit 
through the deck via the gaurd tube foot?  A picture might help.
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, MD

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 5:02 PM Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Hello all,
We have a 1994 C 37/40+, and we are replacing the stern and v berth mattress 
foam and fabric.  I have noticed a very small leak which is coming from the 
starboard pedestal guard foot, where the bolts and wires penetrate the cockpit 
floor.  We have stopped the vast majority of the leak by applying a small layer 
of aluminum duct tape at the point where the stainless tubing penetrates the 
stainless foot. There is a hard plastic spacer that fills the gap between the 
tube & the foot, but it doesn't seem to be made of the proper material to be 
properly water resistant.
So, I expect this leaves us with water coming in under the foot itself, where 
it is bolted through the floor of the cockpit itself (which is finished with 
teak).  

What would you suggest as to the best way to seal this?  The leak we get is 
coming down over the stern berth, and I sure don't want leaks staining our new 
fabric!  

I am thinking about loosening the feet & lifting up the pedestal guard, and 
applying butyl rubber to the bottom.  If that works, great.  But, how would I 
also more permanently stop water ingress due to water finding its way between 
the tube and the foot?
Thanks for your ideas!
Bruce Whitmore
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



   ___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Stopping leaks through pedestal guard feet?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
We have a 1994 C 37/40+, and we are replacing the stern and v berth mattress 
foam and fabric.  I have noticed a very small leak which is coming from the 
starboard pedestal guard foot, where the bolts and wires penetrate the cockpit 
floor.  We have stopped the vast majority of the leak by applying a small layer 
of aluminum duct tape at the point where the stainless tubing penetrates the 
stainless foot. There is a hard plastic spacer that fills the gap between the 
tube & the foot, but it doesn't seem to be made of the proper material to be 
properly water resistant.
So, I expect this leaves us with water coming in under the foot itself, where 
it is bolted through the floor of the cockpit itself (which is finished with 
teak).  

What would you suggest as to the best way to seal this?  The leak we get is 
coming down over the stern berth, and I sure don't want leaks staining our new 
fabric!  

I am thinking about loosening the feet & lifting up the pedestal guard, and 
applying butyl rubber to the bottom.  If that works, great.  But, how would I 
also more permanently stop water ingress due to water finding its way between 
the tube and the foot?
Thanks for your ideas!
Bruce Whitmore
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Stus-List Centerboard cable replacement process?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
OK, so with all the talk about centerboard models, and now replacement of the 
cable itself, what is the process specific to a 37/40+?
The cable attachment at the keel seems a bit difficult to get to, as when we 
hauled the boat for survey, the board was down, but the cable attachment did 
not stick out below the bottom of the hull.  There is a cable stop up on deck 
to keep the board from going all the way down, and there is a slot in that, and 
presumably that might allow you to work with the cable to let the board all the 
way down and perhaps get access to the centerboard attachment?
Then what?  Cut the cable at the keel point, attach a messenger, and pull the 
cable out for measuring?
What does the attachment at the keel look like?
Anyone have any photos?

Thanks in advance! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I have had the pedestal partially apart, in that I replaced the brake pads and 
lubed the chain.  I also got it far enough apart to jump the chain links for 
the purposes of realigning the wheel.  I have not taken the chain off entirely. 
 If, in fact the bolts thread into a deck fitting rather than having to work 
with nuts on the backside, that would make things MUCH easier.
Interestingly, there was some commentary about how there were "wheels" replaced 
in the steering system before I bought the boat, but that was not documented, 
so I kind of disregarded it at the time.  I'd sure like it if I didn't have to 
deal with parts that are no longer manufactured!
Any available documentation about the process on my particular boat would be 
extremely helpful!

Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net






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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

The turks head wraps across a spoke, so no, it can't be moved.  

good thought though
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
#yiv4571028736 #yiv4571028736 -- _filtered #yiv4571028736 
{font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4571028736 
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#yiv4571028736 p.yiv4571028736MsoNormal, #yiv4571028736 
li.yiv4571028736MsoNormal, #yiv4571028736 div.yiv4571028736MsoNormal 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv4571028736 a:link, 
#yiv4571028736 span.yiv4571028736MsoHyperlink 
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4571028736 a:visited, #yiv4571028736 
span.yiv4571028736MsoHyperlinkFollowed 
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4571028736 
p.yiv4571028736MsoAcetate, #yiv4571028736 li.yiv4571028736MsoAcetate, 
#yiv4571028736 div.yiv4571028736MsoAcetate 
{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv4571028736 
span.yiv4571028736EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv4571028736 
span.yiv4571028736BalloonTextChar {}#yiv4571028736 .yiv4571028736MsoChpDefault 
{font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv4571028736 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 
1.0in;}#yiv4571028736 div.yiv4571028736WordSection1 {}#yiv4571028736 Any chance 
that the Turks Head is moving?    ..  or that someone is not moving it just for 
fun?    From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Bruce 
Whitmore via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:39 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    And weirdly, the 
steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway, and it happens when 
we're OFF the boat!    On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the 
wheel just in case there is more current than the wheel brake can control.  
This is done to keep the wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel 
brake wear. Our slip is in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the 
rudder touching bottom when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch 
during low tides.  Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.    Maybe the boat 
settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the rudder against the line 
ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing the chain to jump?  I have 
not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes when I hit the rudder stop.    
The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...    Any 
further thoughts would be appreciated.   Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    I can pretty much 
assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is why the problem comes 
and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The detrimental rust would also 
likely cause a looseness in the wheel and cables which would be quite 
perceptible.    Josh          On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via 
CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: Per Chuck's previous comments, the 
radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I don't think it can slip.  Similarly, 
the helm wheel has a keyway and key.  I've tightened the idler pully plate 
bolts, but I suspect there is rust going on under there, which will mean a full 
disassembly.    Sigh...    Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Michael Brown via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown <m...@tkg.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    If the radial wheel 
was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

  
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
From: Bruce Whitmore <bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net>

Hello all, 

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here... 
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my autopilot

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

That even makes sense from a logical perspective.  The knot does not line up 
vertically with the keyway in the wheel & center hub.  So, if one has it lined 
up on one side, and then you take the wheel off and install it from the other 
direction, viola!  It's way off!
Ugh.  And to think I'd be taking all apart thinking I had a major issue - How 
long would I have been chasing that gremlin?  :0

Now to verify the symptoms... 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Bruce Whitmore <bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 6:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
Whoa!  That might be it!
Not someone messing with me - I've been having the teak refinished, and the 
wheel had been removed for that work and was laying on the cabin top.  So, I 
could have easily put it on the "wrong" side out.
If that's it, I can breath much easier!
That could also account for the first time it was "off" after initial 
adjustment...

I'll still need to check for rust on the plate, but that gives me immediate 
breathing room.
If you're right, I owe another $50 to Stu! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Dennis C. via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: CnClist <CnC-List@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 5:00 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
  
If I take the wheel off and rotate it 180 degrees, does that create the same 
deviation?  I routinely change between my 32 inch (cruising) and 36 inch 
(racing) wheels.  If I don't put the wheel on with the correct side forward, it 
is always off a spoke or so. 
Could someone be messing with you?
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Jan 24, 2018 12:40 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

The turks head wraps across a spoke, so no, it can't be moved.  

good thought though
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
Any chance that the Turks Head is moving?    ..  or that someone is not moving 
it just for fun?    From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-bounces@cnc- list.com]On 
Behalf Of Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:39 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    And weirdly, the 
steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway, and it happens when 
we're OFF the boat!    On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the 
wheel just in case there is more current than the wheel brake can control.  
This is done to keep the wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel 
brake wear. Our slip is in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the 
rudder touching bottom when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch 
during low tides.  Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.    Maybe the boat 
settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the rudder against the line 
ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing the chain to jump?  I have 
not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes when I hit the rudder stop.    
The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...    Any 
further thoughts would be appreciated.   Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    I can pretty much 
assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is why the problem comes 
and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The detrimental rust would also 
likely cause a looseness in the wheel and cables which would be quite 
perceptible.    Josh          On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via 
CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: Per Chuck's previous comments, the 
radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I don't think it can slip.  Similarly, 
the helm wheel has a keyway and key.  I've tightened the idler pully plate 
bolts, but I suspect there is rust going on under there, which will mean a full 
disassembly.    Sigh...    Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Michael Brown via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown <m...@tkg.ca>
Sent: Wedne

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Whoa!  That might be it!
Not someone messing with me - I've been having the teak refinished, and the 
wheel had been removed for that work and was laying on the cabin top.  So, I 
could have easily put it on the "wrong" side out.
If that's it, I can breath much easier!
That could also account for the first time it was "off" after initial 
adjustment...

I'll still need to check for rust on the plate, but that gives me immediate 
breathing room.
If you're right, I owe another $50 to Stu! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Dennis C. via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: CnClist <CnC-List@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Dennis C. <capt...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 5:00 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
If I take the wheel off and rotate it 180 degrees, does that create the same 
deviation?  I routinely change between my 32 inch (cruising) and 36 inch 
(racing) wheels.  If I don't put the wheel on with the correct side forward, it 
is always off a spoke or so. 
Could someone be messing with you?
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Jan 24, 2018 12:40 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

The turks head wraps across a spoke, so no, it can't be moved.  

good thought though
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: "Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "Hoyt, Mike" <mike.h...@impgroup.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 2:35 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
Any chance that the Turks Head is moving?    ..  or that someone is not moving 
it just for fun?    From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-bounces@cnc- list.com]On 
Behalf Of Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:39 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    And weirdly, the 
steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway, and it happens when 
we're OFF the boat!    On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the 
wheel just in case there is more current than the wheel brake can control.  
This is done to keep the wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel 
brake wear. Our slip is in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the 
rudder touching bottom when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch 
during low tides.  Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.    Maybe the boat 
settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the rudder against the line 
ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing the chain to jump?  I have 
not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes when I hit the rudder stop.    
The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...    Any 
further thoughts would be appreciated.   Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    I can pretty much 
assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is why the problem comes 
and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The detrimental rust would also 
likely cause a looseness in the wheel and cables which would be quite 
perceptible.    Josh          On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via 
CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: Per Chuck's previous comments, the 
radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I don't think it can slip.  Similarly, 
the helm wheel has a keyway and key.  I've tightened the idler pully plate 
bolts, but I suspect there is rust going on under there, which will mean a full 
disassembly.    Sigh...    Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net    From: Michael Brown via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown <m...@tkg.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?    If the radial wheel 
was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

  
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
From: Bruce Whitmore <bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net>

Hello all, 

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here... 
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% o

Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

And weirdly, the steering is very precise, with no sloppiness underway, and it 
happens when we're OFF the boat!
On a side note, when we leave the boat, I tie off the wheel just in case there 
is more current than the wheel brake can control.  This is done to keep the 
wheel from turning to the stops, and to prevent wheel brake wear. Our slip is 
in shallow water, and though we have never noticed the rudder touching bottom 
when we sleep on the boat, the keel stub will touch during low tides.  
Thankfully, we have a soft sand bottom.

Maybe the boat settles at low tide or a current comes by, pushes the rudder 
against the line ties, causes slack in the chain/wire rope, causing the chain 
to jump?  I have not tried to look at how slack the cable becomes when I hit 
the rudder stop.
The rust, however will have to be dealt with sooner rather than later...
Any further thoughts would be appreciated. Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:20 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
I can pretty much assure you that there is rust.  What I can't explain is why 
the problem comes and goes and at such a prescribed amount.  The detrimental 
rust would also likely cause a looseness in the wheel and cables which would be 
quite perceptible.
Josh



On Jan 24, 2018 11:12 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

Per Chuck's previous comments, the radial wheel has a keyway and key, so I 
don't think it can slip.  Similarly, the helm wheel has a keyway and key.  I've 
tightened the idler pully plate bolts, but I suspect there is rust going on 
under there, which will mean a full disassembly. 

Sigh...

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Michael Brown via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Michael Brown <m...@tkg.ca>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:06 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
  
If the radial wheel was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

 

Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC)
From: Bruce Whitmore <bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net>

Hello all, 

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here...
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my autopilot, 
I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to approximately the same 
amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment bolts through the radial 
drive wheel.? This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel 
sprocket.
All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these 
adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce the 
feel of the wheel.? I've notice no issues whatsoever when we're out sailing. 

During the first set of adjustments, I noticed the idler wheel bolts were a 
little loose, and tightened those.? 

Considering the radial wheel bolts connect to each end of the cable, and the 
cables attach to the chain, I can only think the chain is somehow jumping on 
the sprocket.
Thoughts?
Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


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Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi Chuck,
You're right as to the amount of wheel travel, and what that would do to 
steering if I turn it that much when out sailing.  I also agree as to the 
keyway, and to Michael's comment, the key is in place and intact, as I removed 
the radial plate for inspection.  On the C 37/40+, the idler pulleys are not 
below deck, they fit in a very small space I can access after taking out a 
removable triangular panel in the cockpit.  So, the parts won't drop down into 
the bilge, but it would still be a bad outcome.  :(  

I'll have to figure out how hard it is to remove the assembly entirely.  I'm 
not sure currently if the bolts penetrate all the way down below deck, or are 
accessible once I remove the panel behind the wheel.  

You can kind of get an idea by looking at the picture here:  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxc37iifz7eo596/Pedestal%20Guard%20Feet.jpg?dl=0


847-404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:38 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?
   
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{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2637076606 div.yiv2637076606WordSection1 
{}#yiv2637076606 Michael,A 20 degree deviation on wheel centering is an AWFUL 
lot of wheel travel with no explanation.  I suspect Bruce’s boat has a 44” 
diameter wheel which means at 20 degrees of travel, the Turk’s head knot would 
have moved roughly 7 ½” to one side or the other.  Generally speaking, if my 
hand moves the wheel that much, the boat changes course dramatically, even with 
a big wheel.Most C Yachts had radial drives that are held in place on the 
rudder shaft by an interference fit of the two halves of the radial, machined 
undersized by .003” for a machinist clamping tolerance and then a keyway is cut 
in the radial drive to accommodate a stainless key that locks the drive wheel 
in place on the rudder.   Generally, even if the boat is run aground on the 
rudder, the radial drive wheel or rudder post may bend, but it won’t slip on 
the post unless it is not clamped tightly at the hub of the wheel.I too suspect 
a weakened idler assembly that is allowing the idlers to pivot after 
tensioning.  The next step is the idler wheel letting go and dropping various 
bits into to the bilge whilst the cable goes completely slack.  Boat handling 
suffers when this happens..Chuck GilchrestHalf Magic1983 Landfall 35Padanaram, 
MA    From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
Michael Brown via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:09 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brown 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson wheel chain jumping links?  If the radial wheel 
was slipping on the rudder post it could cause that issue.
Maybe use a sharpie and put a line down the rudder post and onto the radial 
wheel.
20º is not much movement, you may require a fine line.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

 
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 01:54:12 + (UTC) 
From: Bruce Whitmore  

Hello all, 

OK, I think I have a weird thing going here... 
I have adjusted the wheel to center the turks head knot straight up when the 
wheel is centered.? I got it all nice & straight a few weeks ago, and came back 
to the boat to find it about 20 degrees off to port.? By the way, were talking 
about 20% off on the wheel, not 20% of rudder. ? After installing my autopilot, 
I again adjusted it, this time getting the cables set to approximately the same 
amount of adjustment on each side to the adjustment bolts through the radial 
drive wheel.? This required jumping the chain 1 or 2 notches on the wheel 
sprocket. 
All was well for a couple weeks, and behold, on Saturday I went back only to 
find the turks head knot about 20 degrees to starboard.? During these 
adjustments, I have made a point to keep the cable deflection adjusted to be 
relatively minimal (say 1/2" or so?), without getting so tight as to reduce the 
feel of the 

Re: Stus-List Boat Insurance

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I recently moved from Novamar (brokerage recommended by my broker) to Boat U.S. 
 I have had excellent experience with Boat U.S. over the last 20 years, and 
after Hurricane Irma got us concerned last year, I vowed to re-shop the 
insurance this year and go with a more "known" market.  Boat U.S. was 
previously covered through CNA, but now is Geico due to the ownership by Warren 
Buffett.  However, if my memory serves me correctly, it is Boat U.S. who drives 
the policy language and claims settlement procedures.  Not only that, I 
consider the A.M. Best rating of the carrier, as I'm in the business.
In the end, Boat U.S. was less expensive than the quote from my expiring 
carrier, and given the combination of the Best rating and my experience with 
their claims staff, I stopped looking elsewhere.  

By the way, I stopped by a couple insurance brokers' booths at the St. Pete 
boat show, and gave them opportunities to quote.  They were not competitive.
All this being said, marine insurance, like many other types, is greatly 
impacted by location, value of the boat, year of the boat, etc.  I know some 
brokers that won't even consider quoting until the boat exceeds $10 Million in 
value.  There are also lots of companies that don't want hurricane exposure, 
stay away from Florida, etc.
So, no one solution will work for everyone.  Yet, knowing about all the 
potential alternatives is a great thing, and kudos go to the list for that!

Kindest Regards, 

Bruce Whitmore1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL

bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford 
 Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 1:45 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Boat Insurance
   
I assume you saw my e-mail note over the weekend where I went through GEICO’s 
on-line quote process.  In my case, in 2017 I paid a $1040 annual premium 
versus a $523 on-line quote for the same or better coverage (and slightly 
higher hull value).  All you did was remind me about the call I planned to 
make. Besides, I’m not going to rat you out. From: Frederick G Street via 
CnC-List Sent: Monday, February 05, 2018 1:26 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: 
Frederick G Street Subject: Re: Stus-List Boat Insurance Once Geico finds out I 
started an avalanche, they’re going to raise my rates again…  — Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 On Feb 5, 2018, at 12:16 PM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List 
 wrote:    Well done, Fred.  On the phone now.      
From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List Sent: Monday, February 05, 2018 11:51 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Frederick G Street Subject: Re: Stus-List Boat 
Insurance   I’ve been on the phone with Geico Marine this morning, trying to 
get a straight answer as to why the premium for my current policy (rolled over 
from BoatUS) is nearly 50% higher than a quote I got online over the weekend 
with the same deductibles and coverage.    This is on an agreed hull value of 
$50,000 (yes, I know that’s really high for my boat, but I haven’t seen any 
reason to change it…), with 1% deductible and $500,000 of liability; and covers 
sailing on the Great Lakes and tributaries.  My BoatUS premium was a little 
under $700.00; when it moved to Geico it went up to $852.00.  The quote I got 
online was for $571.00.
   In my initial conversation this morning, the agent on the phone said that my 
renewal coming in March was going to be less than last year; somewhere in the 
$750.00 range.  She said that I could go ahead and get insurance at the online 
quoted rate, but I would need to get a survey done before they’d cover me on a 
new policy.   After talking at length with an underwriter and reviewing my 
policy, the agent just called back: my renewal in March will cost $494.00.   I 
guess it pays to be the squeaky wheel sometimes…   — Fred
     
Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
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Stus-List Source for LDP Water Tank Inspection Port Caps & O-Rings?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I have a water tank inspection cap that is leaking when the tank is full, and 
the DPO thought it a good idea to apply silicone sealer to all the o-rings on 
all 5 caps>  He also applied silicone sealer to nearly every exterior nut, bolt 
and screw, but that's another story.  Ugh...
Here's some links to a couple photos:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c7rcwh7wfwm9nne/Cap%20for%20LDP%20Water%20Tank%203.jpg?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/rj310g6xy9nozh1/Cap%20for%20LDP%20Water%20Tank%202.jpg?dl=0

Anyone know a source where I can find these caps and their o-rings?
Thank you! Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico!

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
First, thanks to Eric for pointing out a CRITICAL provision in the new Boat 
U.S. policies now issued by Geico.  

I read my new policy (which has only been in force since February 2nd) and 
found the following provision:
"We will pay the reasonable cost of repairs and replacements, in accordance 
with quality marine repair practice, less depreciation (emphasis added).  
Depreciation shall be calculated at 10% for each year beginning with the 20th 
year from manufacture.  In all cases, there shall remain no less than 20% 
residual value regardless of age."
I then researched all the information provided during the quoting process.  
This was not disclosed.  I then called Boat U.S., and they agreed they had not 
informed me of this provision, and then offered me (for an upcharge of $64), an 
endorsement that would take away the depreciation provision, but only for the 
hull, mast, spars, railings, but not much more.  They do not normally offer 
this endorsement unless the boat is less than 10 years old (So what's the value 
in that?).  In my mind, that endorsement is worthless - just think about that 
nice $2,000 chart plotter that gets fried by lightning...

For a 1994 boat like mine, that means a partial loss would have only resulted 
in recovery of 60% after the $1,200 deductible, and for my last boat, (a 1977) 
only 20%.  For that kind of coverage on my old boat, I'd just go bare!  The 
policy I had in place until last week was slightly more expensive. but does not 
include a depreciation provision of that magnitude.  

 I am immediately urging all folks I know to immediately shop their coverage 
and move it to a company that does not apply depreciation as soon as possible. 

1).  I am embarrassed to have to admit that as a person with 30+ years in the 
insurance industry, I had not read my policy.2).  The person I spoke with on 
the phone confirmed that this was not a provision of the prior CNA policies 
issued through Boat U.S.
3). I consider this bad faith on the part of the insurer and the licensed 
brokers at Boat U.S.  I intend to file a formal complaint with the Florida 
Department of Insurance accordingly.
This is exactly the kind of thing that would get me involved in an Errors & 
Omissions claim if I did this to a client, and I made that abundantly clear to 
the person I was talking to at Boat U.S.

I will also post this on other boards. Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"  
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I go in & out of John's Pass most weekends, and saw the boat laying on its side 
on Saturday.  Very sad.  

There's a few things I've learned from the local reports, however.  

1).  The couple was relying on charts to identify the bouys.  That doesn't 
here.  They move the markers in the pass somewhat regularly, as the shoaling 
changes where the sandbars are, and in fact, they just moved the bouys more 
south about a month ago, partially as a response to reports we had made to the 
bridge tender about touching bottom while still in the marked channel (we draw 
5 feet with the board up).  The current channel is way south now of where chart 
shows the bouys.
2).  They came in at night.  Bad move.  During the day, they would have had a 
much better chance of seeing the bouys.  Or, if they had been paying attention, 
they would have seen larger boats going in & out, and seen where they were 
entering & exiting the pass.  The would have also had a chance to see the 
breakers ahead, and known to stand off and reconsider the entrance.
3).  They could have called the bridge tender to reconfirm the right approach.  
They folks who run the bridges are very nice, and would be more than happy to 
help someone understand where the channel is.  I'm even somewhat surprised they 
didn't get a call on the radio warning them away.  The tender has called me 
more than once after they moved the markers to advise me of the change, and 
even recommended that I stay 200 yards south of the green mark just to be sure. 
 

As for the keel bolts, I agree they shouldn't have failed during a soft 
grounding. 

It's also bothersome that they didn't have insurance.  I know they were broke, 
but boaters have a responsibility to make sure that there are funds for salvage 
in the case of a total loss.  They can crowdfund all they want, but someone's 
going to be coming after them for the salvage costs.
As an experienced sailor (20+ years in Chicago on Lake Michigan), I found (and 
am still finding) that I have lots to learn sailing down here in West Florida, 
while sailing here is much less hazardous from a weather perspective, the 
shallows, tides & currents make this part of Florida treacherous from a 
grounding perspective.   

Not trying to pile on the couple for their loss, in fact I feel badly for them. 
 

Just thinking about the lessons that can be learned,  Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak / sanding between coats

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Just be careful it's Spar Varnish and not Polyurethane.  Spar Varnish retains 
more flexibility so withstand the heat swings of being exposed outside.
Caution is advised though - I'm no expert! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: William Hall via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list  
Cc: William Hall 
 Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 12:08 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak / sanding between coats
   
This summer I discovered varnish in a spray can.  I decided to try it on my 
grab rails. Two interesting differences from traditional varnish:
- Subsequent coats can be applied without sanding if done within an hour or so. 
 You don't wait for it to dry completely.  - No brush marks
Has anyone else had experience with it? I thought it worked pretty well in my 
test, and certainly liked the ability to get many coats done in a short day. I 
look forward to seeing how it holds up over time.  It seems there must be some 
downside to this!
BillStarfireC 37Ludington, MI

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:43 AM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
wrote:

Dave,
You're not an unwanted guest.  I actually agree with your opinion to some 
degree.  I was walking piers one day and saw a Pearson 365 that belonged to a 
local sailmaker.  The varnished teak toe rails looked amazing. I asked him how 
many coats of varnish.  Answer: 23.
I varnished the teak grate in Touche's head a few years back.  Applied in 
excess of 15 coats, probably more than 20.  Sanding between each coat.  It 
looks really good.
Philosophically, I liken the Cetol vs varnish decision to that of Awlgrip vs 
Awlcraft 2000.  Awlgrip is harder, probably looks better longer but is harder 
to apply and repair.  
For me, the difference is in the sanding between coats.  If you want really 
great varnish, you need to diligently sand between coats.  Cetol does not 
require sanding between coats.  Apllying a filler to the bare teak prior to 
varnish is another difference.
Interested in results and experiences with Awlwood.
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Feb 9, 2018 9:11 AM, "Dave Godwin via CnC-List"  
wrote:

Consider me the unwanted guest at the party on this thread but I won’t use 
Cetol. A few reasons. Years ago I redid all the teak trim on my Mako 261. 
Fortunately the teak was just aged out. No prior coating that I could 
determine. I sanded to bright, applied base coats of light Cetol and then 
several coats of their Gloss. It looked okay, but not nearly as nice as a good 
varnish job. I figured I could live with that if the maintenance was 
substantially less than varnish.
It didn’t turn out that way. Yes, the Cetol lasted a bit longer than varnish 
but not enough to overcome the “look” that IMHO was not as smooth and deep as 
varnish.
Although I haven’t subjected my exterior teak trim on “Ronin” to the outdoors 
yet, everything that I have re-varnished, cabin sole included, has been done 
with AwlWood. Just from an ease of application (5/6 coats versus 8-10 for 
regular varnish) and the deep, clear look it is worth it. 
As an aside, I have a friend with a Tartan 37 who ponied up $4,000 last year to 
have a professional crew redo all his exterior teak with Cetol. I watched the 
process being done in the yard near my boat. It took every bit as much time as 
a varnish job. Yesterday I was on his boat checking it out for him and I was 
noting the quality of the finish. Very good but nowhere near as nice as a well 
done varnish job.
And being the contrarian that I can be, next time I have to apply AwlWood, I’ll 
spray.
Best,Dave Godwin
1982 C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake BayRonin’s Overdue Refit

On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:10 AM, David via CnC-List  wrote:
So those using Cetol and putting gloss as the last two coats.   Is that for 
looks?   Hardness?  Both?
Thanks in advance.

David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


From: CnC-List  on behalf of Dennis C. via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:18 PM
To: CnClist
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak I used teak oil on the toe rails of my 
previous boat.  I religiously oiled them every few months.  After a few months, 
they looked like crap.
On Touche' I use Cetol.  Five coats Cetol Marine followed by three coats Cetol 
Gloss.  Then a coat of Cetol gloss twice a year.  Over ten years in the 
Louisiana sun and still looking pretty good.
I seen dock neighbors use Bristol, teak oil, Semco, etc.  For my money and 
time, it's Cetol.  However, I'd be tempted to look hard at Awlwood.
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA
On Feb 7, 2018 10:47 AM, "Brien Sadler via CnC-List"  
wrote:

My exterior teak is starting to show signs of wear and it's time to refinish 
it. It looks as though it has been varnished in the past but was wondering if 
anyone has just used 

Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

For those of you who decide to change carriers mid-year, demand Boat U.S. 
return 100% of the unearned premium because of the failure to disclose the 
change in settlement provisions by comparison to the old CNA policy.  You don't 
want them to hit you with a "short rate penalty" which would reduce the refund 
they will process.
Thanks again to Joel for pointing this out, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Frederick G Street <f...@postaudio.net>
 Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 2:11 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance
   
I’m with you; I checked my policy earlier today and found that same verbiage.  
Maybe it’s time to get in touch with BoatUS to express our total and complete 
disgust.
— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On Feb 9, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:
I agree with Joel.  

The Agreed Value says that everyone's agreed as to the payment in the event of 
a total loss.  

I'm looking at the declarations page from Boat U.S. right now, and it says 
nothing about depreciation in the case of repairs (for less than a total loss). 
 That is buried down in the policy language itself on Page 4 of 13 under "(2) 
Repair for Partial Loss"
I'm just plain offended...  Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net



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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I agree with Joel.  

The Agreed Value says that everyone's agreed as to the payment in the event of 
a total loss.  

I'm looking at the declarations page from Boat U.S. right now, and it says 
nothing about depreciation in the case of repairs (for less than a total loss). 
 That is buried down in the policy language itself on Page 4 of 13 under "(2) 
Repair for Partial Loss"
I'm just plain offended...  Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Joel Aronson 
 Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 12:31 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance
   
"Agreed value" applies in a total loss situation.  Its a ceiling, not a floor.
Joel

|  | Virus-free. www.avg.com  |


On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:21 PM, John Christopher via CnC-List 
 wrote:

You could very well be right (being in Canada) for the last 10 years, but let’s 
keep an eye on what the fine print says on renewal forms as a trend.


/J
On Feb 9, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:


Isn’t one of the options the so called “agreed value” insurance? This is what I 
am using for over 10 years (both for the previous boat and this one). This way, 
the value does not depreciate over time. You agree on the value (in fact you 
call it, but they adjust the premium) and that’s it. Any additional costs 
(liability, salvage etc.) don’t depreciate, so it is not the issue. just my 2 
(Canadian) cents Marekin Ottawa, ON From: John Christopher via CnC-ListSent: 
Friday, February 9, 2018 11:57To: Joel Aronson Cc: John Christopher ; 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Restarting Thread - Insurance: 
SHAME on Boat U.S./Geico! Hi, Have been monitoring this thread from the 
Canadian north. A pattern to consider in relation to depreciation is, 
considering the hurricanes, storms, frequency, numbers, and perhaps where 
people store their boats for the winter (mainland or other). It comes to mind 
the insurers are also mitigating  their risk for the future. As a result they 
have devised a method that supports paying out far less than they do today due 
to the increased frequency of disasters. I don’t mean to stir the pot here, 
just an observation.


/J
 

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-- 
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301 541 8551___

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Re: Stus-List Toe Rail water drain

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I never had much luck with cellulose sponges.  For me, the natural sponges work 
much better.
Just my $.02 worth,  Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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Re: Stus-List C 37+ window replacement

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

The other thing we found out when we did our windows was that the Plexus that 
had been used to install the original windows was so hard and tightly bonded to 
the fiberglass that it made a fine substrate to adhere to using the 3M VHB 
tape.  Thus, the complaints others have mentioned about having to paint to 
avoid chips and marks showing through, etc. was not a problem for us.
Your mileage may differ, 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Paul Fountain via CnC-List 
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Cc: Paul Fountain 
 Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 3:34 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List C 37+ window replacement
   
#yiv1638678723 #yiv1638678723 -- .yiv1638678723EmailQuote 
{margin-left:1pt;padding-left:4pt;border-left:#80 2px solid;}#yiv1638678723 
Mark, you want cast and 3/8”. The first time mine were done the ‘expert’ used 
1/4 which I did not know until I had both crack after just 3 years. He did not 
polish or bevel the edges either and did a lot of damage to the opening. 
When we re did them I got the windows made at SOUTHSHORE as Rob had the 
original patterns, the had the installer, re do the openings, he was a highly 
regarded fibreglass repairman who’s work looks great including matching the gel 
coat.
Get Outlook for iOSFrom: CnC-List  on behalf of 
Mark Baldridge via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 7:20:06 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Mark Baldridge
Subject: Stus-List C 37+ window replacement Hi All,

I'm in discussion with the yard to replace the fixed windows on my 
37/40+ this spring. They barely leak, but there are vertical splits on 
both sides of the forward windows and in big downpours do leak. I 
currently have blue tape on them to stop the leaks when I'm not around. 
I want them replaced and looking sharp before the wife picks out new 
upholstery for the interior.

So far I'm looking at having them use 3M 4991 VHB tape and Dow 795 
caulking. For those that have this done, any tips I should pass on to 
the folks doing the work.

Also what was used for the windows, "cast" plexiglass? and what 
thickness? I've read 3/8 in posts, but I've been told 1/4" would work 
better due to the curvature of the adhesion area.

Thanks,
Mark Baldridge
~~_/)
'89 C 37/40+ "The Edge"
Surf City, NC



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Re: Stus-List Shifter Cable

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

What is the structure of your pedestal?  Does the shift cable go through the 
pedestal itself, or through stainless tubes running down the outside of the 
pedestal and through the pedestal feet?  It will make a huge difference.  

A photo link would be helpful.
Kindest Regards,
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: jaycotty . via CnC-List 
 To: CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
Cc: jaycotty . 
 Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 5:51 PM
 Subject: Stus-List Shifter Cable
   
Need help from the guru C people here please!
I need to replace the shifter cable from my cc 33 I don't know the length, 
haven't got it out yet it looks like is a PITA! anyone here had replaced one 
before that can give me some advice where can I get one? And how can I get that 
darn thing out, space is limited. SHM!

-- 
Thank You!Jay*___

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Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Not to be funny, but where that boat grounded they could walk to shore... 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: David via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: David <davidrisc...@msn.com>
 Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 8:24 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!
   
#yiv1821346864 #yiv1821346864 -- P 
{margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#yiv1821346864 I cant help but thinking that 
given their lack of experience, gear, preparation, and age of boat...the fact 
that they got away alive is a blessing.   If not then, it might be next time.  
These things do not happen in a vacuum and some other event will more than 
likely befall them again if they do not take the time to gain some experience 
first.


David F. Risch1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


From: CnC-List <cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> on behalf of Bruce Whitmore via 
CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 8:01 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short Cruise! I go in & out of John's Pass most 
weekends, and saw the boat laying on its side on Saturday.  Very sad. 

There's a few things I've learned from the local reports, however. 

1).  The couple was relying on charts to identify the bouys.  That doesn't 
here.  They move the markers in the pass somewhat regularly, as the shoaling 
changes where the sandbars are, and in fact, they just moved the bouys more 
south about a month ago, partially as a response to reports we had made to the 
bridge tender about touching bottom while still in the marked channel (we draw 
5 feet with the board up).  The current channel is way south now of where chart 
shows the bouys.
2).  They came in at night.  Bad move.  During the day, they would have had a 
much better chance of seeing the bouys.  Or, if they had been paying attention, 
they would have seen larger boats going in & out, and seen where they were 
entering & exiting the pass.  The would have also had a chance to see the 
breakers ahead, and known to stand off and reconsider the entrance.
3).  They could have called the bridge tender to reconfirm the right approach.  
They folks who run the bridges are very nice, and would be more than happy to 
help someone understand where the channel is.  I'm even somewhat surprised they 
didn't get a call on the radio warning them away.  The tender has called me 
more than once after they moved the markers to advise me of the change, and 
even recommended that I stay 200 yards south of the green mark just to be sure. 
 

As for the keel bolts, I agree they shouldn't have failed during a soft 
grounding.

It's also bothersome that they didn't have insurance.  I know they were broke, 
but boaters have a responsibility to make sure that there are funds for salvage 
in the case of a total loss.  They can crowdfund all they want, but someone's 
going to be coming after them for the salvage costs.
As an experienced sailor (20+ years in Chicago on Lake Michigan), I found (and 
am still finding) that I have lots to learn sailing down here in West Florida, 
while sailing here is much less hazardous from a weather perspective, the 
shallows, tides & currents make this part of Florida treacherous from a 
grounding perspective.  

Not trying to pile on the couple for their loss, in fact I feel badly for them. 

Just thinking about the lessons that can be learned, Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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Re: Stus-List Battery power

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Not only explained simply, it's memorable. 

Thanks Josh, 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 5:44 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery power
   
First, I completely agree with everyone else about amp hours and meters and the 
sort.
But
Just looking at the voltage, the easiest way is to think of the available 
capacity as 1 volt from 11.7v to 12.7v.  Each 0.1 (tenth) of a volt is roughly 
equal to 10% of usable capacity.
Long winded explanation:This is actually pretty conservative since minimum 
voltage of a dead battery is 10.5v (0%)  Full is 12.7v (100%).  A difference of 
2.2v battery service life (think warranty or years before replacement) 
decreases exponentially the further discharged you get.  Normally a service 
life measurement is based on 50% discharge cycles.  Imagine that the battery is 
rated for 200 cycles @ 50% for its entire life.  That number might drop to 100 
cycles @ 70%, and increase to 400 @ 20%.  Because of all of this, the typical 
recommendation is to minimize depth of discharge overall but to absolutely 
avoid discharging deeper than 50%.  Using the assumption of a linear 
relationship of 2.2v between 0% and 100% we can extrapolate that our 50% 
minimum to 100% is equal to 1.1v.  Since its just easier to say one volt, and 
12.7v is easy to associate with 11.7v.  I come full circle to the 10% = 0.1v.
Did I explain that well enough?
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+Solomons, MD


On Feb 12, 2018 3:02 PM, "David Knecht via CnC-List"  
wrote:

This discussion raises an issue I have struggled with as I have started 
cruising more: deciding how much battery power I have.   I have 2 AGM 
batteries, one house, one starting and a panel voltmeter for monitoring.  My 
batteries are now separated so I no longer have to worry about being able to 
start the engine if I run the house too low. The fridge is the only major power 
draw, so I usually am just conservative, running it only periodically to make 
sure I don’t overdraw the battery.  So what is the most efficient way to figure 
out how much I can safely run the fridge?  If I just watch the voltage, how do 
I decide if I can leave the fridge on overnight?  Dave
Aries1990 C 34+New London, CT


On Feb 12, 2018, at 2:33 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List  
wrote:
Much of your problem is a matter of battery capacity as much as a matter of 
charging capacity.  I have ~450 Ah of capacity on one bank, a 90 Amp alternator 
that never reaches full load, and 200 watts of solar.  Even without the solar I 
was able to comfortably keep the the fridge running and the lights on when 
cruising for ~2 weeks.  The half hour to hour of engine operation to anchor or 
moore in the evening and the same in the morning was always enough to keep the 
batteries charged.  
Keep in mind that the battery capacity should be at least 4x of the charge 
capacity for flooded lead acid and at least 2x for AGM.  So a 400 Ah or 200 Ah 
respectively for a 100 amp alternator.
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+Solomons, MD 


On Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 12:55 PM Damian Greene via CnC-List 
 wrote:

A question for your collective wisdom:
I am scoping out upgrading my stock 55A alternator to a 100A Balmar, and 
related upgrades to the controls. I had a very productive discussion with Rod 
Collins at Compass Marine (mainesail), and we worked out the details. 
Unfortunately he's booked out through the spring, so this job will wait until 
next winter.
So thinking then about keeping the batteries charged, and the fridge running on 
our long summer cruise - where we may go for weeks without access to shore 
power, I got wondering about using a portable generator to charge the batteries 
- as an alternative to many hours of running the diesel. There are a couple of 
Hondas that might do the trick 2000 Watt, weighing 47#, 1000 Watt weighing 29#.
Have any of you tried this? What could (would) go wrong if I plugged this 
generator into my inverter, to charge the batteries?
Regards,
Damian
1986 Sabre 38 FreefallPreviously 1984 C 34 GhostBass Harbor, 
Maine__ _

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every one is 

Stus-List Source for Kracor Tank Inspection Port Caps

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
After striking out at our local RV store and online searches, I called Kracor 
tanks.  They told me in no uncertain terms they only work with boat 
manufacturers, not individuals.  They tried to tell me to call C  Finally I 
got connected with someone back in the shop who directed me to: 

Claires Marine Outfitters2921 SW 2nd Ave, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33315(954) 
523-4301
They had them in stock, $10 apiece plus shipping.
You may want to make a note of this if you think you'll need a cap someday.
As it turns out the lip on one of my caps is bent up, and as a result the cap 
itself is leaking through a crack.  Thus the need for the replacement.  

By the way, I took the advice of getting x type o-rings, and for about $10 I 
got a package of 10.  They work great and seal much better than the original 
gasket/o-rings.  I got them through McMaster Carr.  

Thanks everyone for the help, 
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+"Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Stus-List Hard bimini?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I am considering replacing our sunbrella bimini with a hard top version to make 
it so that we won't have to replace it again (at least not in my boat ownership 
lifetime) and to provide a smooth base for mounting semi-flexible solar panels. 
 Have any of you done this yourself?
I found this company selling ones the make:  Photos | Hard To Top

  
|  
|   |  
Photos | Hard To Top
 Hard to Top boat hardtops are custom made for each boat's specifications and 
are attached to the boat's ...  |  |

  |

 
They quoted me $649 for a 6' x 9' top using my existing stainless frame.  
Shipping was about $150 on top of that.  

This seems pretty reasonable, but I'd like your thoughts.  Also, what do you 
thing about the look of it? 

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts,  Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Portable generator question

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,
Just curious, what batteries do you have in your bank, and where are they 
mounted?  

Am I right to presume that having more charge capacity would result in shorter 
battery life?
Just trying to size my eventual solar panel purchase.
Thanks! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:34 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Portable generator question
   
Much of your problem is a matter of battery capacity as much as a matter of 
charging capacity.  I have ~450 Ah of capacity on one bank, a 90 Amp alternator 
that never reaches full load, and 200 watts of solar.  Even without the solar I 
was able to comfortably keep the the fridge running and the lights on when 
cruising for ~2 weeks.  The half hour to hour of engine operation to anchor or 
moore in the evening and the same in the morning was always enough to keep the 
batteries charged.  
Keep in mind that the battery capacity should be at least 4x of the charge 
capacity for flooded lead acid and at least 2x for AGM.  So a 400 Ah or 200 Ah 
respectively for a 100 amp alternator.
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+Solomons, MD 


On Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 12:55 PM Damian Greene via CnC-List 
 wrote:

A question for your collective wisdom:
I am scoping out upgrading my stock 55A alternator to a 100A Balmar, and 
related upgrades to the controls. I had a very productive discussion with Rod 
Collins at Compass Marine (mainesail), and we worked out the details. 
Unfortunately he's booked out through the spring, so this job will wait until 
next winter.
So thinking then about keeping the batteries charged, and the fridge running on 
our long summer cruise - where we may go for weeks without access to shore 
power, I got wondering about using a portable generator to charge the batteries 
- as an alternative to many hours of running the diesel. There are a couple of 
Hondas that might do the trick 2000 Watt, weighing 47#, 1000 Watt weighing 29#.
Have any of you tried this? What could (would) go wrong if I plugged this 
generator into my inverter, to charge the batteries?
Regards,
Damian
1986 Sabre 38 FreefallPreviously 1984 C 34 GhostBass Harbor, 
Maine___

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Re: Stus-List Portable generator question

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Thanks Bill, that's a good insight.  Just keeping gum out of the generator 
would be a big win in my opinion.
We'll be adding solar to the bimini sometime in the future (probably late this 
year or early next year), but down here in Florida, if we're out cruising and 
not at a dock (the transient slips tend to be over $100 a night down here), a 
generator to run the A/C would be highly desirable.
I love the idea of it running off the propane even if I have to get a long hose 
to run from the propane locker in the stern all the way up to the bow (we sleep 
in our stern berth).  

Thanks again,
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL  
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Bill Dakin via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Bill Dakin 
 Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 3:55 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Portable generator question
   
I found certain retailers of the Honda 2000 will sell you one converted to run 
on propane from gasoline.  Like the propane dinghy outboards (Lehr), NO gum in 
the fuel system.  There is a cost from lower BTU in propane than gasoline, but 
if you already use propane for the Magma, you have the fuel (hopefully in the 
right spot).
Bill Dakin25-2S/V Tapestry___

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Stus-List Recent discussion regarding Federal v. State Boat Documentation

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello All,
Given the discussion that came up the other day regarding boat documentation, 
you may want to see the link below posted by Boat U.S.
Boat Documentation Requirements - BoatUS Graphics

  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
Boat Documentation Requirements - BoatUS Graphics
 Find all boat documentation requirements whether your boat is state or 
federally documented.  |   |

  |

  |

 
While not authoritative in & of itself, it might cause local law enforcement to 
pause and rethink if they ever pull you over because you don't have state 
numbers displayed on your boat.  

At least in Florida, this does not eliminate the need to display the state 
registration sticker.

Hoping you find this helpful, Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List Landfall 38 original list price

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I'd kind of disagree...
Technically, boat didn't depreciate very much.  It inflation that's taking down 
the value of today's dollars.
Depreciation is the reduction in $ value over time, and from a tax writeoff 
perspective, a $20,000 asset owned by a business would be written off over a 
specified period of time, presumably to the point it would be worth $0.  

Its just that $20,000 won't buy you a new sailboat any longer!   
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list  
Cc: Randy Stafford ; Patrick Davin 

 Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:08 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Landfall 38 original list price
   
According to C brochures that came with Grenadine, the C 30 MK I base price 
as at September 13, 1976 was $27,200.  As at September 1, 1977 it had increased 
to $30,450.
I don’t have information on how much her first owner paid for her in 1972.  I’d 
guess ~$20,000 if the base price tracked with inflation.  That’s ~$120,000 in 
today’s dollars.  And I bought the boat (and its trailer) for $16,500 two years 
ago.  Poor thing obviously depreciated a lot.
Cheers,Randy StaffordS/V GrenadineC 30-1 #7Ken Caryl, CO


On Feb 15, 2018, at 3:14 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List  
wrote:
Wow. That's $123,000 in today's dollars. (20k in 1971 = 123k today). Important 
to compare real values, not nominal values - inflation over 47 years is very 
significant!  Still not bad, a 35' production boat today goes a bit more than 
that I think. 
Would be interesting if anyone has a 1980's number. The 70's after about '73 
had massive inflation - 
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/09/1970s-great-inflation.asp

Dennis I suspect the note to not install genoa winches is because the owner 
wanted a particular placement of them (the line after that says "put in the 
boat loose w/ fastenings"). 
-Patrick'84 LF38
On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:59 PM,  wrote:

-- Forwarded message --
From: "Dennis C." 
To: CnClist 
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 14:23:01 -0600
Subject: Re: Stus-List Landfall 38 original list price
Paul,
Doesn't answer your post but below is a link to Touche's original 1971 order 
from the yacht broker to Hinterhoeller.  Shows a base price of $18,760 with 
$872 worth of options.  A Landfall 10 years later would have been a wee bit 
more.
Interesting note on Page 2, Item 81.  "DO NOT install genoa sheet winches or 
cleats."  Never have figured that one out.
https://drive.google.com/open? id= 1y6lBr8452ciJtkdrVQ2OLIKTbJAuF gb5
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA



On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Dreuge via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hi,
I was asked a question about the Landfall 38 original list price, and  I 
realized I had no clue.   Does anyone know what they were original going for in 
1981 or thereabouts?

-
Paul E.1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL
http://svjohannarose.blogspot. com/

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Re: Stus-List Mast step

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hi Josh,
I have no experience with this whatsoever, but please be so kind as to keep me 
abreast of your work, as I have the same boat.  

In hindsight, is there a way to determine the condition of the step without 
pulling the mast?
Thanks! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 2:48 PM
 Subject: Stus-List Mast step
   
Ok Guys, 
I've had the mast pulled for a complete refit and to the best of my ability to 
observe, it appears that the step has never been removed.  It looks terrible 
and horribly corroded.  It is aluminum and I'm not sure that the 30 years of 
corrosion has necessarily compromised the beam but since I have access I'd like 
to at least get it repainted.  It seems that the inner skin of the sub-floor 
was placed on top of the stringers (and step) with no thought given to the 
possibility of needing to remove the step in the future.  I expected that a 
magical combination of tilting, twisting, or rolling would do the trick but 
alas it seems that cutting a portion of the subfloor is the only answer.  I'd 
intend to use and oscillating saw to make the necessary cuts.  These cuts would 
be roughly the width of the mast step and the depth necessary to make the 
sub-floor flush with the stringer.  This would allow tilting the step out.
Hard to describe, but has anyone had a similar experience and solution?

Thanks,
Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C 37+Solomons, MD 

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Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Thanks Charlie - a very helpful description.
I'd love a photo, and I thoroughly understand the timing.
Love this list!  :)  
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
 Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 4:06 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+
   
  Hey Bruce; Be glad to send pictures but I won't be at the boat until after 
the holidays--racing on Jan 6 and will be there to prep boat and take pictures 
on the 5th at the latest.  The main caveat I would throw-up is I don't think 
the internal blocks in the Lewmar cars are ball bearing types--maybe just a 
nylon/delrin sleeve--but I may be 'mis-remembering'--its been a while since I 
looked at them. The tracks have end caps on them in my version. I used one of 
the end cap screws (that attach the caps to the track) to fasten a sturdy SS 
eye-strapto each cap. This was necessary since the original purchase was not 
enough to move the cars under load and I needed a sturdy place to mount these 
additional blocks.Also since the attaching machine screw goes through strap and 
the cap and screws into the track, it is extremely sturdy. This also avoids 
relying on the internalLewmar car blocks for purchase--only for attachment. 
IIRC, I have a pair of 3 in 1 blocks on each track (4 total), each attached to 
the SS eye-strap. The 3/16 or 1/4 inch control line is reeved thru them, I 
think 5 or 6:1to car on one end and to the cockpit thru a turning block past 
the aft end of the tracks up to a cam-cleat mounted on the side of the outside 
cockpit coaming. This allows adjustment from the cockpit to move the car 
forward. With any breeze, even with my purchase, the headsail usually will 
drive the car aft without assistance. Of course, there is a lot of control line 
laying on the deck with a 5 or 6:1 purchase which can be a PITA if the trimmer 
is not careful--this loose line can get tangled or otherwisejam up the system 
when racing. Otherwise, it just takes a little care to avoid this, especially 
when adjusting the car forward for off the wind. Will send photon in January. 
Charlie Nelson cenel...@aol.com
  -Original Message-
From: bwhitmore via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: bwhitmore <bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Wed, Dec 20, 2017 12:25 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+

Hi Charlie,
Any chance you have a photo of your setup you can post/send?
Thanks!
Bruce Whitmore 


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Date: 12/20/17 10:59 AM (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: cenel...@aol.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable 
Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+ 
That looks like a standard low-profile Lewmar track/car and it looks like it 
has the internal blocks to make it adjustable. Add a suitable block on the fore 
and aft ends of the track, run a line appropriately and eventually to the 
cockpit and you have adjustable cars. Mind that you face the choice of easy 
adjustment (lot of purchase and line--say 6:1) or more difficult adjustment 
(less purchase and line say 3:1). Except for the blocks at the track ends, I 
don't see that you need new cars.  The adjustable cars on my boat look 
identical to yours--all I did was add more purchase with blocks at the end of 
the track. Charlie Nelson1995 C 36XL/kcbWater Phantom cenel...@aol.com
  -----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Bruce Whitmore <bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tue, Dec 19, 2017 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Adjustable Genoa Cars, 1994 C 37/40+

Here is a photo of the car:  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7xjokgr6ndss8u/Track%20Car.jpg?dl=0

Here is a photo of the end of the track:  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hj5gygo52qf25p9/Track%20Photo%20%231.jpg?dl=0

And here is a photo of the track:  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/80aoxpg4igj3pmv/Track%20Photo%20%233.jpg?dl=0
Can anyone here suggest a solution for retrofitting adjustable cars to this 
track?  Garhauer was only $430 for the full kit (both sides), but the cars 
don't fit the track, and they say they can't match it.  Have any of you had 
luck with getting Garhauer to make a car to match this track?  

I really don't want to spend more than twice the Garhauer price.  I'm not going 
to race, and I need $1,000 more than I need adjustable cars...
Thanks!
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


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Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I'd love to see that as well Josh.
Thanks! 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 10:22 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Backstay tension
   
With that info I'll head down to my boat and apply various psi to the 
hydraulics and then measure the tension with my loos gauge.
Josh 
On Fri, Aug 3, 2018, 10:17 AM Gary Russell via CnC-List  
wrote:

So...  I went over to Kaylarah this morning and found the following:
The back stay diagonals are 235" longThe spread between the attachments is 
80"Doing the math, that means if the maximum tension on the vertical rod is 
5000 lbs., then the tension on the diagonals is 2537 lbs.From here you can 
apply any safety factor you like, just maintain the ration of 2537 : 
5000.Because the angle between the diagonals is so small (smaller than I 
thought), it is pretty close to 2:1.
Personally, I'm going to try and keep the tension on the diagonals less than 
2000 lbs. which keeps the upper rod below 3942 lbs.  (Now where did I put that 
Loos gauge?)
GaryS/V Kaylarah'90 C 37+East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Gary Russell  wrote:

     Actually, if you look closely at the manual, you will notice that the 4125 
lbs. refers to "wire limit", and 5000 lbs. refers to "rod limit".  Since the 
vertical part of the back stay assembly is rod, I will assume that the 5000 
lbs. refers to the vertical.  I will go over to the boat tomorrow and try to 
measure the back stay angle, to see which limit gets exceeded first, the rod or 
the wire.  C could have made this a lot easier.  I've got to believe the 
transom will fail before the wire, yet the wire is all that is specified.
Gary
~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Absolutely without any doubt in my mind the backstay tension of 4125 is to be 
measured on the mainline.  This works in opposition to the head stay which is 
equally sized #12 rod.
Josh 
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:41 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hi Josh,     Oops!  I missed that.  I looked in the chapter about rigging and 
didn't find it there.  Silly me!  I even searched for the number 4125 and found 
nothing.  I guess the document is an image rather than text. Now the question, 
is that the tension in the vertical part of the back stay?  I guess, the safest 
assumption is that it is.
Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 8:33 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Page 68 of the manual pdf file which I linked before has the pre-load and max 
load limits. 
Again I am corrected in my preconceived notions regarding the correlation 
between a hydraulic gauge and the tensile load on the back stay.

Josh
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018, 8:13 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hi Josh,     Where did you find the 4125 or 5000 lb. limit?  I don't see that 
in the Owners Manual?  Is the 4125 lb. limit for the lower angled segments of 
the the back stay or the upper vertical part.  You can't simply measure the 
port back stay tension and multiply by two, because of the angle between the 
two.  You would have to measure the angle and apply some trig to get the right 
value.  Mike Cotton's boat was the one I was referring to in my email above.
Gary
~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 6:31 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 wrote:

The manual says limit to 4125lbs and then says absolute max of 5000lbs.  
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1ySXFBdDhrX0ZaMzNnazViYkZzRVRoODlSSUd3/view?usp=drivesdk
I never considered that the hydraulic pressure psi could/would be independent 
of tensile load.  When I had my hydraulic pump rebuilt by Lew Townsend he tried 
to adjust the relief valve but mine adjustment knob was seized.  He gave up and 
just hydro-tested it anyway.  He found that the relief was roughly 3500.  I 
rarely go over 2500.  Now that I have to consider the corollary between psi and 
lbs I'll be pulling out my Loose tension gauge and get back to you.  Since it 
is split I'll remember to add together or double a single. 
As for the attachment to the transom, I agree it does seem slightly poor 
engineering.  In fact when we were shopping around the first boat looked at wad 
named Blue Pearl and had been owned by Mike Cotton who was and may still be on 
this list.  It was evident that some past event had caused the port aft 
attachment to separate the flat horizontal (cap) part of the fiberglass casting 
from the curved (body) potion.  The hydraulic pump was a single piston and pump 
combo that attached between the port anchor amd the port side of the back stay. 
 Evidently a sheave communicated the tension to the stbd size at the point 
where the single rod attached from the mast head.  It seemed as though maybe 
the sheave didn't roll smoothly and failed to split the tension evenly between 
the port and stbd anchor on the transom.  That of the 

Re: Stus-List Head Problems

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Does it HAVE to be electric?  On our last boat, we converted the hand pump base 
from Jabsco to Raritan.  They can be difficult to find, but Raritan makes a 
pump-only base/kit that uses the existing bowl, and (at least at the time) was 
about half the price of a new one, and was less than $200.  The reason I raise 
this is the Raritan pump seemed much more efficient at flushing and overall did 
a much better job.
My unit in Chicago lasted more that 5 years before it needed an overhaul, and 
that was a pretty easy process.  By comparison, our Jabsco that is in our new 
(to us) 1994 C 37/40+ is just not very good at getting the effluent up and 
over the top of the loop in the hose.
As a result I will convert our Jabsco to a Raritan the next time I really need 
an overhaul.
Now if I could only figure out where I got the base without the bowl...  I know 
that it was originally recommended by Peggy Hall the Headmistress. Bruce 
Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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Re: Stus-List Head Problems

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I finally found where to get the Raritan "Lower Base Assembly".  The price has 
gone up, but it is still substantially lower than buying the full unit from 
Defender.  Here's the link:  Raritan LBA Upgrade for almost any toilet

  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
Raritan LBA Upgrade for almost any toilet
 Raritan LBA Upgrade for almost any toilet  |   |

  |

  |

 
 Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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Stus-List Idler plate corrosion & imminent failure

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
This issue has been brought up numerous times, but bears repeating.  Had it not 
been for a number of the folk here on the board, I would not have known to 
check the idler plate.  Here's a couple photos of ours:  

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kraaoftygwm02ie/Idler%20Plate%20%231.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pd3el5231il4g1k/Idler%20Plate%20%232.jpg?dl=0

As you can see, there wasn't much holding it together!
After a couple attempts to see if I could get the part made locally, I sent it 
to Edson.  They are re-using the idler pulleys, and the replacement was $341 
including shipping, $150 of which was labor.  The plate is aluminum, and I 
still need to see what I will do to address the fact that the aluminum plate is 
thicker than the original mild steel plate.  I think I can grind down the 
fiberglass in the cockpit rather than putting in a spacer, but I'll figure that 
out when the plate arrives.

For those of you who have 37/40+ boats or other boats where the idler wheels 
are NOT mounted below deck, I highly recommend you inspect the plate closely!.  
Our radial drive wheel and idlers are accessible via a removable panel in the 
cockpit sole rather than by crawling down into a locker (or some such).  This 
results in the plate being exposed to water and, especially in salt water 
conditions, to extreme corrosion.  

Even for those of you with idler plates below deck, I would recommend a close 
inspection.  The top side of the plate may be corroding without you realizing 
it, and the unit's failure could be catastrophic, as it would very likely occur 
at a time when you need your steering most.  

Hoping you find this helpful, and thanks to those of you on the board who 
warned me about the issue!  
Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Stus-List Don't assume your steering chain is fine...

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

As a few posters here know,  I am in the process of replacing the idler plate 
on my 1994 C 37/40+.  During the process of pulling the binnacle and going 
through it, I found one of the links in the chain had a crack/break in it.
Here's a photo:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jaejlvvl2zsq7f4/Steering%20Chain%20%232.jpg?dl=0

I have chain on order.  So, now for the question:  Anyone know why this crack 
might have developed?  I looked at some websites, and essentially fatigue 
failure or stress corrosion cracking was suggested.  That said, given the 
breaking strength of the chain, and the general good condition of the chain and 
sprocket, it would seem unlikely that our steering systems would generate the 
kind of stresses capable of cracking a link in the chain.
Nonetheless, this should serve as warning - don't just assume the chain is 
fine.  Had I not been in a position of removing the chain and inspecting it 
closely, I could have easily overlooked this!
Food for thought, 
 Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List 37/40 hydraulics

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I went looking at the seals noted below, and they appear to be much larger than 
the seals on my hydraulic backstay adjusters.  Would anyone know the part 
numbers for the smaller version adjusters that are on the later boats?  Mine is 
a 1994 37/40+.  

I thoroughly understand all of the recommendations to have the adjusters 
professionally repaired, but I'm big into self-sufficiency, and I'd rather try 
it first and see how it turns out.  I can always go the professional route if I 
don't get it right...
Thanks!  Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Len Mitchell via CnC-List 
 To: CNC List  
Cc: Len Mitchell 
 Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 11:34 PM
 Subject: Stus-List 37/40 hydraulics
   
After all the talk about hydraulics last week I noticed both my backstay 
cylinders are leaking a little around the top seal. I have one cylinder working 
harder than the other too which is a problem. I put together the parts needed 
to rebuild them and thought someone may benefit from knowing the parts 
required. The backstay cylinders aren’t difficult. The boom vang cylinder is 
spring loaded and I will probably pay a shop when it needs a rebuild. (and I 
will warn them it’s spring loaded)
The parts come from Hercules and this is for 1 cylinder. 
1-P187-00.937-312B (large seal)1-ST-50 (sweep)1-P187-00.500 (small 
seal)2-568-215 (o-ring)
A couple of things I found useful last time was wrapping the shaft threads with 
electrical tape to ease sliding the new seals on and I made up a sacrificial 
stainless steel wire wrapped hose for the boom vang so I didn’t have to replace 
and fish a new 20+ foot hose under the ceiling liner when the sun damages the 
hose enough to leak. Navtec has a support section on their web page that 
details how to check and set relief valve pressures which should help those of 
you worried about over pressure of your backstay and transom hardware. 

Len MitchellCrazy Legs1989 37+Midland On. 
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Re: Stus-List 37/40 Hydraulics

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Thanks Len about the post noting Hercules Hydraulics.  Turns out they're only a 
few miles from me! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List 1980 24ft C sailboat questions

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

On our previous boat, a C 27, we mounted a small flexible solar panel to the 
companionway hatch, and had a small controller wired to it, along with a 
battery combiner.  It was sufficient to keep a Series 27 and 2 batteries from 
powered wheelchairs charged.  I used those same batteries for going on 7 years 
before I sold the boat.  

We spent a lot of weekends on the boat, and would not hesitate to take it for a 
week or so cruising on Lake Michigan.
We did not have shore power or a charger on the boat other than running the 
engine.
Of course, we did not have AC.
However, we did have a flat panel TV, a decent stereo, autopilot, fans, lights, 
etc.  

I'd agree that the 24 is too small to install A/C.
Hope this helps,  Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/0+ "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

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Re: Stus-List Yanmar 3HM35F Exhaust riser/goose neck

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello Wade, 

Essentially it means running the engine at relatively high RPMs (I've seen the 
number to by 85% of full speed) whenever reasonable, in gear and avoiding 
running the engine solely to charge the batteries.   Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Wade Glew via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Wade Glew 
 Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2018 10:09 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar 3HM35F Exhaust riser/goose neck
   
Hi Josh,Being relatively new to the sailboat business can I please ask what you 
mean by "keeping the engine load as high as possible" with regard to Soot 
accumulation?WadeOh Boy C 33 MKII 
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 16:24 Josh Muckley via CnC-List,  
wrote:

I was pleasantly surprised, that after 5 years of use and no service, the elbow 
was in no way clogged with soot.  I believe this to be a result of regulatory 
keeping the engine load as high as possible.
Josh
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 5:11 PM Josh Muckley  wrote:

It is original to my ownership (6 years), who knows prior to that.  Replaced 
with "stainless" from ebay.
Josh


On Sat, Jul 14, 2018, 4:46 PM Jake Brodersen via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Josh, That’s a nasty hole.  How old is the elbow?  Time for a new one.  
Standard or stainless? Jake Jake BrodersenC 35 Mk-III “Midnight 
Mistress”Hampton VA   From: CnC-List  On Behalf 
Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 15:21
To: C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Stus-List Yanmar 3HM35F Exhaust riser/goose neck I found some rust 
blisters on the riser while poking around in the engine the other day.  I had a 
moment yesterday to do the replacement with parts which I have had for some 
time.  The rubber exhaust hose was stuck on and a considerable amount of 
wrestling was required to separate it from the riser.  In the effort it went 
unnoticed that some of the rust blisters had broken away.  Once I finally got 
it off and had a chance to inspect I found that the rust had opened up a dime 
sized hole.  If this had let go unexpectedly I would have started blowing 
exhaust and water into my engine compartment.  My "what would I have done" 
thoughts started rolling and I've decided that a tube of epoxy putty would have 
been my first effort at an emergency 
repair.https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1aC6-4V8P3BufZhZsusYFmMlmHknk-Ftv 
Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+Solomons, MD
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Re: Stus-List Edson Wheel Idler Pulley Plate

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I do not believe it is solely limited to the 37/40+, and in fact have seen 
other posts about people losing steering in races & offshore passages due to 
failure of the plate due to rust. 

Per Edson's website, they are running about $400 - $450.Hope this helps, Bruce 
Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: bushmark4--- via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: bushma...@aol.com
 Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 9:19 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson Wheel Idler Pulley Plate
   
 Ron, do you think the plate issue is indigenous to the 37+/40s or do believe 
all boats will/should have to replace? Thanks
 
Richards/v/ Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River (soon)

Richard N. Bush  
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
 
-Original Message-
From: Ron Ricci via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Ron Ricci 
Sent: Thu, Jul 5, 2018 8:37 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Edson Wheel Idler Pulley Plate

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.yiv1815358118aolReplacedBody div.yiv1815358118aolmail_WordSection1 {}Bruce, I 
replaced my idler plate and generally overhauled the steering system several 
years ago.  The idler pulleys had almost fallen off the plate and the steering 
cables actually fell off the radial wheel.  I got the next to last plate Edson 
had in stock and I think the last one is now gone.   Edson told me that when 
the last idler was gone they could water cut new ones as the dies were no 
longer available.  Your plate looks OK but I think that it like many others on 
37+/40’s will need replacement.  This may be a good time for all 37+/40 owners 
to inspect their plates.  Regards,RonRon RicciS/V PatriotC 37+Bristol, 
riron.ri...@1968.usna.com     From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 3:14 PM
To: C List
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Stus-List Edson Wheel Idler Pulley Plate Hello all, I have a 1994 C 
37/40+ that we are slowly going through from stem to stern to make sure that I 
understand the systems and that we're comfortable that we've addressed the 
major, if not minor issues.  Eventually we will want to do some Caribbean 
cruising, but for now we're day sailing.  

 One of the issues I saw brought up was potential wear on idler pulleys and 
rusting of the idler pulley plate.  One of my steering cables has a couple fine 
meathooks, so the cables are on the list for replacement in the very near 
future (I have the cables).  That got me thinking about the plate, and I slid 
my cell phone in through the stern access and snapped some photos.  You can see 
them here:  



https://www.dropbox.com/s/6loqazy934saift/Idler%20Pulleys%20-%20Farther%20out%20view.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kss6g0pyrephdb9/Idler%20Pulleys%2C%20closeup%20aft.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fpsowvbmlx9u383/Idler%20Pully%20Plate%2C%20forward.jpg?dl=0



It seems as though the rust is all on the surface at the moment and the idler 
pulleys mount securely.  



Can anyone tell me how difficult and time consuming it will be to change out 
the plate?  If the plate only has surface corrosion, is treating it in place 
with Ospho a reasonable short term solution while I am swapping out the cables 
(until I can replace the plate entirely)?  



Can you also confirm the steps, which I presume to be as follows:

a).  Remove the compass, disconnect compass light, attach a fish line to the 
wire

b).  Remove plate that serves to attach stainless grab rail

c).  Disconnect shi

Stus-List You may want to check your balls... :)

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Hello all,
I was in the process of replacing my running rigging which included the 
adjustable babystay line running back to the cockpit which utilizes a Lewmar 
moveable car (I am pretty sure they are #2 track).  After replacing the line I 
was pushing the car back & forth to check how easy it moved, and when I 
tightened the babystay line, the car surprisingly came off the track.  I then 
subsequently found a large number of various sizes of very worn plastic balls.  
As it turns out, they are the bearings, and the new replacements are made from 
Torlon rather than the white Delrin I found in the cars.  
I found some at a local West Marine, and determined that the 5/16 size fit 
well.  So, I replaced them, and of course now the car moves very, very easily.  
I then determined that the bearings in the jib cars need replacement, and while 
I'm at it, I'll do the traveler as well.  

Then, I found these at McMaster Carr at roughly 1/2 the price of what 
Lewmar/Harken want for them:  https://www.mcmaster.com/#torlon-balls/=1dmpwb5
So, if you want to reduce friction check your balls!  :)  

Hoping you find this helpful, 
  Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Re: Stus-List 37/40 recommendations?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

I agree with the posts here, including a number of Josh's concerns noted below. 
 That said, please be aware that the 37/40+ (and potentially the XL) have 
larger tanks.  We carry +/- 100 gallons of fresh water and 40 gallons of 
diesel.  I don't remember the holding tank size at the moment.
I'll also agree as to the high cockpit floor height and companionway step.  And 
yes, that makes putting on a proper dodger difficult.  That said, I find the 
steep companionway stairs to be quite secure feeling when going up & down, and 
have never felt like I was going to slip or fall.  There are good railings/grab 
spots set just for this purpose.  My fear, however is that one day there will 
be an accidental jibe as someone is going up or down, and that will not be a 
good day.  That's not to say it wouldn't happen on any other boat, but there's 
no way if I was going down the companionway that the boom would miss my head. :(
I find the A/C is perfectly capable of keeping our boat cool in 90+ temps and 
high humidity here in Florida, and the stern berth for us is best slept in with 
the head towards the aft, as that makes it better for getting in & out of the 
berth in the middle of the night.  We added an extra fan to the stern berth to 
help circulate the cool air from the A/C. We also replaced the mattresses in 
both berths just due to age - it made a huge difference.  

I have used the shower a number of times, and though it is a tad tight, I 
really like it.  We have also hung some sticky hooks in the shower to serve as 
a wet locker when necessary.  It's really nice to have an out of the way place 
for wet stuff!
The galley is simply a great design, and we cook breakfast on the weekends and 
would not hesitate to do more cooking other than the heat it would create in an 
already hot climate.  That you would face with any boat.  There is sufficient 
space in one of the cabinets for a small microwave (one was already on our 
boat, but I have to admit I have not yet used it).  

My wife particularly likes the center table which folds down on both sides, as 
she is not a fan of the typical U-shaped table designs.  

We added a stack pack which you can see in the attached picture:  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0rlqciawspzi1ff/Astralis%20Under%20Sail%20%28Corrected%2020131109a%29.jpg?dl=0.
  You can see we just unzip it and sail with the lines and cover rigged.  We've 
attached a sail tie to the zipper, and it hangs over the side of the pack for 
easy zipping/unzipping, and is hidden when we are at the dock.  As mentioned 
before, with the addition of a downhaul and a little Sailkote, dropping the 
main all the way into the pack is a breeze.  

Our C 37/40+ seems to outperform a lot of boats out here in the light Florida 
air, and points like a dream.  We're having a bit of an issue getting top hull 
speed however, probably due to the 3 blade prop which I will probably replace 
when it comes out of the water for a bottom job sometime next year.
Overall, we are thrilled with the boat, and are very glad we didn't go down the 
road of a Catalina 380 (which we also liked due to the stern berth).
As with Josh, please feel free to give me a call with any questions, Bruce 
Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+, "Astralis"Madeira Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: C List  
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 1:36 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List 37/40 recommendations?
   
Chuck,
First let me say that I love my 37+ (tall mast wing keel).  The queen sized 
birth in the aft and the standup shower along with the PHRF of 75 all make for 
a great combination.  The very deep, partially balanced rudder means that 
getting rounded up is virtually impossible.
Now on to the dirt:
I don't have a lot to compare to and certainly no other 37/40s but I find the 
boat to be pretty tender.  Edd Schillay has said that his boat races best with 
10 to 12 crew and most of them are rail meat.  It really seams to come down to 
mast height.  I do have the tall mast, so that could be exacerbating my 
situation but a single foot seams like it would be insignificant.  Really I 
think the standard rig is probably just about as tender.  The deepest and 
heaviest keel you can accommodate on your sailing grounds would be the best.
As for the wing keel I've never had any problems.  Supposedly, the wing keel 
can get tangled on underwater grass, plow/scoop mud, and looses pointing 
ability... I don't have a reference point to compare but I kinda perceive that 
the lighter swing keels spend much of their time up.  Even when down the 
lighter weight kinda ends up being a wash compared to the wing.  If your slip 
and sailing grounds can accommodate then seek out the deeper, heavier wing keel.
I order to accommodate the queen sized aft birth, they had to sacrifice having 
an additional quarter birth or a large lazaret on port or stbd.  Additionally, 
in order to create limited head room in the birth the 

Re: Stus-List Engine mounts

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Ok, so now you folks have me wondering - how would I determine if my motor 
mounts are bad or getting ready to fail?  

I have not noticed any untoward clunking or vibration, but I'm relatively new 
to the boat...
Thanks! Bruce Whitmore
1994 C 37/40+ "Astralis"
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
 Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 10:33 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Engine mounts
   
Tom, 
The original Yanmar mounts have a fatal flaw in that if the rubber degrades it 
can tear and leave the engine un mounted.  Some race regulations actually 
require wire or chain ties to restrain the top and bottom parts should the 
rubber fail.  PYI makes a replacement mount which is positively captured so 
that even if the rubber breaks down the mount can't separate.  The leading 
cause of the rubber to fail is fuel saturation.  The PYI mounts are designed 
with a metal shroud to shield the rubber.  
I ran into Yanmar mounts that were soft enough that the thrust of the prop 
drove the engine forward.  There was enough movement that it opened up the 
dripless shaft seal.  Granted the seal was old and needed tightened or replaced 
but it was still quite telling to see the fountain of water.  I would guess 
that the engine was shifting about 1/2".  PYI calls the Yanmar mounts 
"marshmallow mounts" and they are designed as such to minimize noise and 
vibration.  I can't sat that I'm upset by the noise and vibration of the PYI 
mounts.
Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C 37+Solomons, MD 


On Mon, Jul 9, 2018, 8:49 PM Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List  
wrote:

I just made an appointment to get them all replaced in a few weeks.  I found a 
great machinists in Sidney BC.  Superior work and currency exchange discount.

Tom BuscagliaS/V Alera 1990 C 37+/40Vashon WAP 206.463.9200C 305.409.3660

On Jul 9, 2018, at 5:04 PM, Ron Ricci  wrote:


Two of mine were bad and I replaced all four.  The parts were inexpensive and 
the only issue I’ve had is corrosion on the steel parts.  Regards,RonRon 
RicciS/V PatriotC 37+Bristol, riron.ri...@1968.usna.com   From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 12:47 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Tom Buscaglia
Subject: Stus-List Engine mounts One of my engine mounts on my Yanmar 3HM35F is 
hopelessly seized.    As they are over 25 years old anyway, I’m wondering if I 
should just replace the one that’s messed up or all 4. Do these things go have 
an effective life?  Tom BuscagliaS/V Alera 1990 C 37+/40Vashon WAP 
206.463.9200C 305.409.3660  
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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