Re: Opinion gathering

[Jason S]

  
  

  My feeling was  as Felix  (and I think still is to an extent).
  
  But I went through the presentation  as I previously only saw the
  v16 promo clip which looked good (except demos always look good)
  
  And found not only the presented features rather impressive 
  (or at least impressive looking with workflows that didn't look
  too scary), 
  but most especially for the direction that they claimed to be
  taking, 
  so I was quite pleased with what I was seeing/hearing.
  
  Such as in the hair section the presenter mentioned  how
  previously, 
  there were some very approachable methods, 
  but as soon as wanting to customize or go deeper, it quickly got
  very technical.  
  
  So hearing that particular bit, is parts of what I found
  encouraging, 
  that such things (not just for hair) was at least recognized.
  
  An other part I liked hearing was in the Animation segment  (also
  alluding to SI situation in the beginning :-)  )
  it really looks like quite real steps are made to streamline
  different workflows.
  
  
  Although I personally still do have quite a few reservations.
  
  A while back before that, during my evaluation of different things
  (checking out C4d, modo, then H14-15)
  
  My impression was    wooow...   -->>   --complicated--
  
  but I mean WAY   -over- complicated for basically every process I
  scrutinized  for getting to different things
  including for shading (or shader authoring) , the equivalent of
  passes, selection and manipulation of things, and always using
  what seemed like the lowest level ICE nodes, even for just basic
  regular things, but also to when wanting to go deeper, getting
  very quickly quite technical, like when mentionned for hair, but
  for basically every bit I covered.
  (I now wonder how's the new shading system!)
  
    I could see how it could be great for complex/intricate
  centerpiece effects, with the ability to go as deep as can be,  
  but as a general purpose environment?
  it was just  ...  woooww!  way-way   (unneccessarily)
  --over--complicated   all over.
  
  
  Like if one of the main gripe soft users have in regards to Maya,
  
  concerns comparatively how much time it can take to get from point
  A to point B,
  
  users coming from Maya (or basically any package) typically have
  that same gripe in regards to Houdini, 
  when trying to consider it as a general purpuse DCC.
  
  So that made/makes for quite some contrast coming from SI.
   
  
  Also supporting that, from the comments section of the previously
  referenced page about  Houdini  Nav & Selection   
  (neat page by the way, the narrator reminds me of Mr Mootz :)   )
   
  

   Jakub Rupa says 
  

  24.01.2017 
  

 

  Is that modeled in Houdini? I’m curious how to do
  something like that 

 
Reply
 


  
 Manuel says 

  
24.01.2017 

  
  
No it’s modeled in C4D. But it’s perfectly possible to
model this in Houdini. 
  
I prefer destructive modeling though, for static
objects. That’s why I usually do it in C4D or Blender.
  

  
  
  
  
  And to this day, If you  search "Houdini" on vimeo, it's just page
  after page of FX, more FX, and then more FX, 
  weather or not sorting by relevance or by recently added.
  
  Albeit all mostly truely awesome FX which would be practically
  impossible in anything else other than Houdini 
  (except maybe in ICE)
  unless making (coding) dedicated specific plugins for each effect
  .
  
  
  
  Another thing I personally consider important,  is about  --
  >>  "parallel workflows"  
  ->>   http://www.si-community.com/community/viewtopic.php?p=54997#p54997
  
  (Mathaeus taught me that term :) )
  
  
  But all in all, also as Felix, my reservations comes down to how
  far they seem to have to go in their own humanization efforts.  
  
  Because as it is now  (probably still to a large extent in v16
  amongst some possibly neat improvements),
  it seems that basically every section needs to be revamped to some
  more or less considerable degree 
  for Houdini to generally become user-friendly.   (not just for
  learning it, but day tot day)
  
  And if they do pull it off, I hope it wont involve a decade,
  (because it can definitely look like it could)
   

RE: Opinion gathering

[bellsey]

different strokes for different folks really.

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Pierre Schiller
Sent: 21 February 2017 13:38
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Opinion gathering

 

I can't see how a bunch of "wanna be solidworks software" copycats from 
autodesk can manage to live longer than Softimage, given those 3d/cad/design 
softwares can do half of what softimage does. Please someone explain that

Seriously.

 

On Feb 21, 2017 8:16 AM, "Mirko Jankovic" <mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com 
<mailto:mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com> > wrote:

In short, Houdini and Redshift - Perfect Match :)

 

As honestly I haven't seen better support then RS team even so they are rather 
small compared to.. well every other :)

Guys are simply amazing and now their magic mixed with Houdini magic.. may be 
just one thing that pushes the rest of SI people there as well.. I know I'm 
digging tutorials at the moment in between projects and waiting for h16.

Btw when is it online? when when when, it is 21st today

ᐧ

 

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gerbrand Nel <nagv...@gmail.com 
<mailto:nagv...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Dude, I'm one guy with 2 indie licenses,... from Africa...
I think opening my mail costs them more than my business is worth to them.
And yet, some time last year I asked about something that bothered me.. 2 days 
later it was in a daily build.
I'm sure it was a simple thing for them to change, but the point I'm trying to 
make is:
THEY GIVE A SHIT
This is something we are not used to thanks to years of abuse from autodesk.
Send your suggestions!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3c_pJ_CLJQ
G


On 2017/02/21 1:14 PM, Felix Geremus wrote:

I will try. But honestly, given your background and mine (and the number of 
licenses involved) I don't have very high expectations of being heard very 
soon. Also I think it will be hard for them to make such fundamental changes 
like completely revamping hotkey behavior, without pissing off their 
established user base, no matter how reasonable the changes might be. But let's 
see, maybe I will be surprised. 

 

 

 

 

2017-02-21 12:04 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com 
<mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com> >:

Do it please, these things are hard to explain and Softimage is so well fine 
tuned in this respect I believe there is lot to learn from it. Make sure you do 
that because they are in a huge drive to usability in the viewport.

 

They have improved it a lot in H16 but I am sure there is more to do.. Then of 
course is the factor of being used to and you, l like me, will get used to the 
idiosyncrasies but it is a this moment that you are not 100% comfortable that 
is the most valuable.

 

Cheers

jb

 

On 21 Feb 2017, at 10:45, Felix Geremus <felixgere...@googlemail.com 
<mailto:felixgere...@googlemail.com> > wrote:

 

Hey Tim, I know the Entagma Video (and all the others, amazing tutorials). It 
helps a little bit. But I think it's funny that even during the tutorial he 
frequently runs into similar problems I'm experiencing. Like the near clipping 
plane constantly broken, having to reset the view because something is off, 
difficulties to select stuff 

 

Jordi, I will try to send my issues to SideFX as soon as I have some time.

 

I think the main problem is a completely awkward combination of shortcuts 
behaving differently when different tools are active and even worse when my 
cursor is in different parts of the layout. For example the nasty Esc key puts 
me into view mode. Now in view mode the 1,2,3,4 keys change my current view, 
while in select mode I switch between components. When I'm hovering the network 
view 1 shows/hides the selected node. 

Or I really like the Y key to Ghost or Hide other Objects. But the shortcut 
only works while I'm in view mode, in select mode or while hovering the network 
view nothing happens, in edit mode though it toggles through my transform 
gizmos. This is madness! A shortcut should bring me into the desired mode 
(select, edit, view) not require me hit another shortcut in advance to behave 
the way I want it. Ok I'll end it here :)

 

 

 

2017-02-21 0:30 GMT+01:00 Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk 
<mailto:tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk> >:

Hey Felix, I know what you mean and I still have some reservations about it as 
a pure get-things-done-dirty moddler and scene assembler. Although I'm hoping I 
just need to learn more to get comfortable with it. 

However this video might help a bit wth selections and the scene model.

http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/

Cheers,

Tim. 

  _  

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>  
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk

Re: Opinion gathering

[Andy Goehler]

> On 21.02.2017, at 14:26, Felix Geremus  wrote:
> 
> For me the most exciting sentence in the whole H16 presentation was "we will 
> talk about big time lighting next year". Can't wait to see what they will 
> come up with...

Same here :)--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: Opinion gathering

[Gerbrand Nel]

On 2017/02/21 3:15 PM, Mirko Jankovic wrote:
> Btw when is it online? when when when, it is 21st today

I know right?

Its been the 21st here for 15 hours and 44 minutes already!!!

--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: Opinion gathering

[Pierre Schiller]

I can't see how a bunch of "wanna be solidworks software" copycats from
autodesk can manage to live longer than Softimage, given those
3d/cad/design softwares can do half of what softimage does. Please someone
explain that
Seriously.

On Feb 21, 2017 8:16 AM, "Mirko Jankovic" <mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In short, Houdini and Redshift - Perfect Match :)
>
> As honestly I haven't seen better support then RS team even so they are
> rather small compared to.. well every other :)
> Guys are simply amazing and now their magic mixed with Houdini magic.. may
> be just one thing that pushes the rest of SI people there as well.. I know
> I'm digging tutorials at the moment in between projects and waiting for h16.
> Btw when is it online? when when when, it is 21st today
> ᐧ
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gerbrand Nel <nagv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dude, I'm one guy with 2 indie licenses,... from Africa...
>> I think opening my mail costs them more than my business is worth to them.
>> And yet, some time last year I asked about something that bothered me.. 2
>> days later it was in a daily build.
>> I'm sure it was a simple thing for them to change, but the point I'm
>> trying to make is:
>> THEY GIVE A SHIT
>> This is something we are not used to thanks to years of abuse from
>> autodesk.
>> Send your suggestions!!
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3c_pJ_CLJQ
>> G
>>
>> On 2017/02/21 1:14 PM, Felix Geremus wrote:
>>
>> I will try. But honestly, given your background and mine (and the number
>> of licenses involved) I don't have very high expectations of being heard
>> very soon. Also I think it will be hard for them to make such fundamental
>> changes like completely revamping hotkey behavior, without pissing off
>> their established user base, no matter how reasonable the changes might be.
>> But let's see, maybe I will be surprised.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-02-21 12:04 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Do it please, these things are hard to explain and Softimage is so well
>>> fine tuned in this respect I believe there is lot to learn from it. Make
>>> sure you do that because they are in a huge drive to usability in the
>>> viewport.
>>>
>>> They have improved it a lot in H16 but I am sure there is more to do..
>>> Then of course is the factor of being used to and you, l like me, will get
>>> used to the idiosyncrasies but it is a this moment that you are not 100%
>>> comfortable that is the most valuable.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> jb
>>>
>>> On 21 Feb 2017, at 10:45, Felix Geremus <felixgere...@googlemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Tim, I know the Entagma Video (and all the others, amazing
>>> tutorials). It helps a little bit. But I think it's funny that even during
>>> the tutorial he frequently runs into similar problems I'm experiencing.
>>> Like the near clipping plane constantly broken, having to reset the view
>>> because something is off, difficulties to select stuff
>>>
>>> Jordi, I will try to send my issues to SideFX as soon as I have some
>>> time.
>>>
>>> I think the main problem is a completely awkward combination of
>>> shortcuts behaving differently when different tools are active and even
>>> worse when my cursor is in different parts of the layout. For example the
>>> nasty Esc key puts me into view mode. Now in view mode the 1,2,3,4 keys
>>> change my current view, while in select mode I switch between components.
>>> When I'm hovering the network view 1 shows/hides the selected node.
>>> Or I really like the Y key to Ghost or Hide other Objects. But the
>>> shortcut only works while I'm in view mode, in select mode or while
>>> hovering the network view nothing happens, in edit mode though it toggles
>>> through my transform gizmos. This is madness! A shortcut should bring me
>>> into the desired mode (select, edit, view) not require me hit another
>>> shortcut in advance to behave the way I want it. Ok I'll end it here :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2017-02-21 0:30 GMT+01:00 Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk>:
>>>
>>>> Hey Felix, I know what you mean and I still have some reservations
>>>> about it as a pure get-things-done-dirty moddler and scene assembler.
>>>> Although I'm hoping I just need to learn more to get comfortable with it.
>>>>
>>>> However this video might help a bit wth 

Re: Opinion gathering

[Felix Geremus]

>
> In short, Houdini and Redshift - Perfect Match :)


I think it will be as soon as SidfeFX supports stuff like Material
Stylesheets for 3rd Party renderers.  Without that I think it's still
somewhat limited, especially in comparison to Softimage passes.

For me the most exciting sentence in the whole H16 presentation was "we
will talk about big time lighting next year". Can't wait to see what they
will come up with...



2017-02-21 14:15 GMT+01:00 Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com>:

> In short, Houdini and Redshift - Perfect Match :)
>
> As honestly I haven't seen better support then RS team even so they are
> rather small compared to.. well every other :)
> Guys are simply amazing and now their magic mixed with Houdini magic.. may
> be just one thing that pushes the rest of SI people there as well.. I know
> I'm digging tutorials at the moment in between projects and waiting for h16.
> Btw when is it online? when when when, it is 21st today
> ᐧ
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gerbrand Nel <nagv...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dude, I'm one guy with 2 indie licenses,... from Africa...
>> I think opening my mail costs them more than my business is worth to them.
>> And yet, some time last year I asked about something that bothered me.. 2
>> days later it was in a daily build.
>> I'm sure it was a simple thing for them to change, but the point I'm
>> trying to make is:
>> THEY GIVE A SHIT
>> This is something we are not used to thanks to years of abuse from
>> autodesk.
>> Send your suggestions!!
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3c_pJ_CLJQ
>> G
>>
>> On 2017/02/21 1:14 PM, Felix Geremus wrote:
>>
>> I will try. But honestly, given your background and mine (and the number
>> of licenses involved) I don't have very high expectations of being heard
>> very soon. Also I think it will be hard for them to make such fundamental
>> changes like completely revamping hotkey behavior, without pissing off
>> their established user base, no matter how reasonable the changes might be.
>> But let's see, maybe I will be surprised.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-02-21 12:04 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Do it please, these things are hard to explain and Softimage is so well
>>> fine tuned in this respect I believe there is lot to learn from it. Make
>>> sure you do that because they are in a huge drive to usability in the
>>> viewport.
>>>
>>> They have improved it a lot in H16 but I am sure there is more to do..
>>> Then of course is the factor of being used to and you, l like me, will get
>>> used to the idiosyncrasies but it is a this moment that you are not 100%
>>> comfortable that is the most valuable.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> jb
>>>
>>> On 21 Feb 2017, at 10:45, Felix Geremus <felixgere...@googlemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Tim, I know the Entagma Video (and all the others, amazing
>>> tutorials). It helps a little bit. But I think it's funny that even during
>>> the tutorial he frequently runs into similar problems I'm experiencing.
>>> Like the near clipping plane constantly broken, having to reset the view
>>> because something is off, difficulties to select stuff
>>>
>>> Jordi, I will try to send my issues to SideFX as soon as I have some
>>> time.
>>>
>>> I think the main problem is a completely awkward combination of
>>> shortcuts behaving differently when different tools are active and even
>>> worse when my cursor is in different parts of the layout. For example the
>>> nasty Esc key puts me into view mode. Now in view mode the 1,2,3,4 keys
>>> change my current view, while in select mode I switch between components.
>>> When I'm hovering the network view 1 shows/hides the selected node.
>>> Or I really like the Y key to Ghost or Hide other Objects. But the
>>> shortcut only works while I'm in view mode, in select mode or while
>>> hovering the network view nothing happens, in edit mode though it toggles
>>> through my transform gizmos. This is madness! A shortcut should bring me
>>> into the desired mode (select, edit, view) not require me hit another
>>> shortcut in advance to behave the way I want it. Ok I'll end it here :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2017-02-21 0:30 GMT+01:00 Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk>:
>>>
>>>> Hey Felix, I know what you mean and I still have some reservations
>>>> about it as a pure get-things-done-dirty moddler and

Re: Opinion gathering

[Mirko Jankovic]

In short, Houdini and Redshift - Perfect Match :)

As honestly I haven't seen better support then RS team even so they are
rather small compared to.. well every other :)
Guys are simply amazing and now their magic mixed with Houdini magic.. may
be just one thing that pushes the rest of SI people there as well.. I know
I'm digging tutorials at the moment in between projects and waiting for h16.
Btw when is it online? when when when, it is 21st today
ᐧ

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gerbrand Nel <nagv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dude, I'm one guy with 2 indie licenses,... from Africa...
> I think opening my mail costs them more than my business is worth to them.
> And yet, some time last year I asked about something that bothered me.. 2
> days later it was in a daily build.
> I'm sure it was a simple thing for them to change, but the point I'm
> trying to make is:
> THEY GIVE A SHIT
> This is something we are not used to thanks to years of abuse from
> autodesk.
> Send your suggestions!!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3c_pJ_CLJQ
> G
>
> On 2017/02/21 1:14 PM, Felix Geremus wrote:
>
> I will try. But honestly, given your background and mine (and the number
> of licenses involved) I don't have very high expectations of being heard
> very soon. Also I think it will be hard for them to make such fundamental
> changes like completely revamping hotkey behavior, without pissing off
> their established user base, no matter how reasonable the changes might be.
> But let's see, maybe I will be surprised.
>
>
>
>
> 2017-02-21 12:04 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Do it please, these things are hard to explain and Softimage is so well
>> fine tuned in this respect I believe there is lot to learn from it. Make
>> sure you do that because they are in a huge drive to usability in the
>> viewport.
>>
>> They have improved it a lot in H16 but I am sure there is more to do..
>> Then of course is the factor of being used to and you, l like me, will get
>> used to the idiosyncrasies but it is a this moment that you are not 100%
>> comfortable that is the most valuable.
>>
>> Cheers
>> jb
>>
>> On 21 Feb 2017, at 10:45, Felix Geremus <felixgere...@googlemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Tim, I know the Entagma Video (and all the others, amazing
>> tutorials). It helps a little bit. But I think it's funny that even during
>> the tutorial he frequently runs into similar problems I'm experiencing.
>> Like the near clipping plane constantly broken, having to reset the view
>> because something is off, difficulties to select stuff
>>
>> Jordi, I will try to send my issues to SideFX as soon as I have some time.
>>
>> I think the main problem is a completely awkward combination of shortcuts
>> behaving differently when different tools are active and even worse when my
>> cursor is in different parts of the layout. For example the nasty Esc key
>> puts me into view mode. Now in view mode the 1,2,3,4 keys change my current
>> view, while in select mode I switch between components. When I'm hovering
>> the network view 1 shows/hides the selected node.
>> Or I really like the Y key to Ghost or Hide other Objects. But the
>> shortcut only works while I'm in view mode, in select mode or while
>> hovering the network view nothing happens, in edit mode though it toggles
>> through my transform gizmos. This is madness! A shortcut should bring me
>> into the desired mode (select, edit, view) not require me hit another
>> shortcut in advance to behave the way I want it. Ok I'll end it here :)
>>
>>
>>
>> 2017-02-21 0:30 GMT+01:00 Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk>:
>>
>>> Hey Felix, I know what you mean and I still have some reservations about
>>> it as a pure get-things-done-dirty moddler and scene assembler. Although
>>> I'm hoping I just need to learn more to get comfortable with it.
>>>
>>> However this video might help a bit wth selections and the scene model.
>>>
>>> http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Tim.
>>> --
>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Felix Geremus <
>>> felixgere...@googlemail.com>
>>> *Sent:* 20 February 2017 23:04:40
>>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>>> *Subject:* Re: Opinion gathering
>>>
>>> I am on the Houdini train for a couple of months now. An

Re: Opinion gathering

[Gerbrand Nel]

Dude, I'm one guy with 2 indie licenses,... from Africa...
I think opening my mail costs them more than my business is worth to them.
And yet, some time last year I asked about something that bothered me.. 
2 days later it was in a daily build.
I'm sure it was a simple thing for them to change, but the point I'm 
trying to make is:

THEY GIVE A SHIT
This is something we are not used to thanks to years of abuse from autodesk.
Send your suggestions!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3c_pJ_CLJQ
G
On 2017/02/21 1:14 PM, Felix Geremus wrote:
I will try. But honestly, given your background and mine (and the 
number of licenses involved) I don't have very high expectations of 
being heard very soon. Also I think it will be hard for them to make 
such fundamental changes like completely revamping hotkey behavior, 
without pissing off their established user base, no matter how 
reasonable the changes might be. But let's see, maybe I will be 
surprised.





2017-02-21 12:04 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com 
<mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>>:


Do it please, these things are hard to explain and Softimage is so
well fine tuned in this respect I believe there is lot to learn
from it. Make sure you do that because they are in a huge drive to
usability in the viewport.

They have improved it a lot in H16 but I am sure there is more to
do.. Then of course is the factor of being used to and you, l like
me, will get used to the idiosyncrasies but it is a this moment
that you are not 100% comfortable that is the most valuable.

Cheers
jb


On 21 Feb 2017, at 10:45, Felix Geremus
<felixgere...@googlemail.com
<mailto:felixgere...@googlemail.com>> wrote:

Hey Tim, I know the Entagma Video (and all the others, amazing
tutorials). It helps a little bit. But I think it's funny that
even during the tutorial he frequently runs into similar problems
I'm experiencing. Like the near clipping plane constantly broken,
having to reset the view because something is off, difficulties
to select stuff

Jordi, I will try to send my issues to SideFX as soon as I have
some time.

I think the main problem is a completely awkward combination of
shortcuts behaving differently when different tools are active
and even worse when my cursor is in different parts of the
layout. For example the nasty Esc key puts me into view mode. Now
in view mode the 1,2,3,4 keys change my current view, while in
select mode I switch between components. When I'm hovering the
network view 1 shows/hides the selected node.
Or I really like the Y key to Ghost or Hide other Objects. But
the shortcut only works while I'm in view mode, in select mode or
while hovering the network view nothing happens, in edit mode
though it toggles through my transform gizmos. This is madness! A
shortcut should bring me into the desired mode (select, edit,
view) not require me hit another shortcut in advance to behave
the way I want it. Ok I'll end it here :)



2017-02-21 0:30 GMT+01:00 Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk
<mailto:tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk>>:

Hey Felix, I know what you mean and I still have some
reservations about it as a pure get-things-done-dirty moddler
and scene assembler. Although I'm hoping I just need to learn
more to get comfortable with it.

However this video might help a bit wth selections and the
scene model.

http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/
<http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/>

Cheers,

Tim.

*From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>> on behalf
of Felix Geremus <felixgere...@googlemail.com
<mailto:felixgere...@googlemail.com>>
*Sent:* 20 February 2017 23:04:40
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21forum/xsi_list>
*Subject:* Re: Opinion gathering
I am on the Houdini train for a couple of months now. And I
really like it for the most part, especially the more
technical aspects are incredible and way better than
Softimage ever was. But I am still confused by all the praise
for Houdini in certain areas like poly modeling or scene
assembly. I'm still learning (and I'm on my own) so there is
a high chance that I might do something wrong. But as an
example I think the selection and interaction model is a
complete mess. Quickly selecting and modifying ge

Re: Opinion gathering

[Andy Goehler]

Hey Felix,

regardless of the numbers of licenses bring up your issues with them. Even back 
when we were on one license stuff got implemented. I know I sound like a broken 
record when saying that SideFX support is not something most of us had 
experienced before with a software vendor of that size.

Regarding what Jordi said, H16 does have improvements with viewport handling, 
although they may not be what you'd like them to be :)

Have fun and hang in there.
Andy





> On 21.02.2017, at 12:14, Felix Geremus <felixgere...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> I will try. But honestly, given your background and mine (and the number of 
> licenses involved) I don't have very high expectations of being heard very 
> soon. Also I think it will be hard for them to make such fundamental changes 
> like completely revamping hotkey behavior, without pissing off their 
> established user base, no matter how reasonable the changes might be. But 
> let's see, maybe I will be surprised.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2017-02-21 12:04 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>>:
> Do it please, these things are hard to explain and Softimage is so well fine 
> tuned in this respect I believe there is lot to learn from it. Make sure you 
> do that because they are in a huge drive to usability in the viewport.
> 
> They have improved it a lot in H16 but I am sure there is more to do.. Then 
> of course is the factor of being used to and you, l like me, will get used to 
> the idiosyncrasies but it is a this moment that you are not 100% comfortable 
> that is the most valuable.
> 
> Cheers
> jb
> 
>> On 21 Feb 2017, at 10:45, Felix Geremus <felixgere...@googlemail.com 
>> <mailto:felixgere...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey Tim, I know the Entagma Video (and all the others, amazing tutorials). 
>> It helps a little bit. But I think it's funny that even during the tutorial 
>> he frequently runs into similar problems I'm experiencing. Like the near 
>> clipping plane constantly broken, having to reset the view because something 
>> is off, difficulties to select stuff
>> 
>> Jordi, I will try to send my issues to SideFX as soon as I have some time.
>> 
>> I think the main problem is a completely awkward combination of shortcuts 
>> behaving differently when different tools are active and even worse when my 
>> cursor is in different parts of the layout. For example the nasty Esc key 
>> puts me into view mode. Now in view mode the 1,2,3,4 keys change my current 
>> view, while in select mode I switch between components. When I'm hovering 
>> the network view 1 shows/hides the selected node. 
>> Or I really like the Y key to Ghost or Hide other Objects. But the shortcut 
>> only works while I'm in view mode, in select mode or while hovering the 
>> network view nothing happens, in edit mode though it toggles through my 
>> transform gizmos. This is madness! A shortcut should bring me into the 
>> desired mode (select, edit, view) not require me hit another shortcut in 
>> advance to behave the way I want it. Ok I'll end it here :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2017-02-21 0:30 GMT+01:00 Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk 
>> <mailto:tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk>>:
>> Hey Felix, I know what you mean and I still have some reservations about it 
>> as a pure get-things-done-dirty moddler and scene assembler. Although I'm 
>> hoping I just need to learn more to get comfortable with it. 
>> 
>> However this video might help a bit wth selections and the scene model.
>> 
>> http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/ 
>> <http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/>
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Tim. 
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
>> <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>> on behalf of Felix Geremus 
>> <felixgere...@googlemail.com <mailto:felixgere...@googlemail.com>>
>> Sent: 20 February 2017 23:04:40
>> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list>
>> Subject: Re: Opinion gathering
>>  
>> I am on the Houdini train for a couple of months now. And I really like it 
>> for the most part, especially the more technical aspects are incredible and 
>> way better than Softimage ever was. But I am still confused by all the 
>> praise for Houdini in certain areas like poly modeling or scene assembly. 
>> I'm still learnin

Re: Opinion gathering

[Felix Geremus]

I will try. But honestly, given your background and mine (and the number of
licenses involved) I don't have very high expectations of being heard very
soon. Also I think it will be hard for them to make such fundamental
changes like completely revamping hotkey behavior, without pissing off
their established user base, no matter how reasonable the changes might be.
But let's see, maybe I will be surprised.




2017-02-21 12:04 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com>:

> Do it please, these things are hard to explain and Softimage is so well
> fine tuned in this respect I believe there is lot to learn from it. Make
> sure you do that because they are in a huge drive to usability in the
> viewport.
>
> They have improved it a lot in H16 but I am sure there is more to do..
> Then of course is the factor of being used to and you, l like me, will get
> used to the idiosyncrasies but it is a this moment that you are not 100%
> comfortable that is the most valuable.
>
> Cheers
> jb
>
> On 21 Feb 2017, at 10:45, Felix Geremus <felixgere...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hey Tim, I know the Entagma Video (and all the others, amazing tutorials).
> It helps a little bit. But I think it's funny that even during the tutorial
> he frequently runs into similar problems I'm experiencing. Like the near
> clipping plane constantly broken, having to reset the view because
> something is off, difficulties to select stuff
>
> Jordi, I will try to send my issues to SideFX as soon as I have some time.
>
> I think the main problem is a completely awkward combination of shortcuts
> behaving differently when different tools are active and even worse when my
> cursor is in different parts of the layout. For example the nasty Esc key
> puts me into view mode. Now in view mode the 1,2,3,4 keys change my current
> view, while in select mode I switch between components. When I'm hovering
> the network view 1 shows/hides the selected node.
> Or I really like the Y key to Ghost or Hide other Objects. But the
> shortcut only works while I'm in view mode, in select mode or while
> hovering the network view nothing happens, in edit mode though it toggles
> through my transform gizmos. This is madness! A shortcut should bring me
> into the desired mode (select, edit, view) not require me hit another
> shortcut in advance to behave the way I want it. Ok I'll end it here :)
>
>
>
> 2017-02-21 0:30 GMT+01:00 Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk>:
>
>> Hey Felix, I know what you mean and I still have some reservations about
>> it as a pure get-things-done-dirty moddler and scene assembler. Although
>> I'm hoping I just need to learn more to get comfortable with it.
>>
>> However this video might help a bit wth selections and the scene model.
>>
>> http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tim.
>> --
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Felix Geremus <
>> felixgere...@googlemail.com>
>> *Sent:* 20 February 2017 23:04:40
>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>> *Subject:* Re: Opinion gathering
>>
>> I am on the Houdini train for a couple of months now. And I really like
>> it for the most part, especially the more technical aspects are incredible
>> and way better than Softimage ever was. But I am still confused by all the
>> praise for Houdini in certain areas like poly modeling or scene assembly.
>> I'm still learning (and I'm on my own) so there is a high chance that I
>> might do something wrong. But as an example I think the selection and
>> interaction model is a complete mess. Quickly selecting and modifying
>> geometry, like in Soft or even Maya is still almost impossible, at least
>> for me. I can't see anybody doing some serious modeling inside this tool.
>> H16 seems to be a step in the right direction, but especially for those
>> "get it done as quick and dirty as possible" type of jobs, I still don't
>> think it's the right tool. For everything else it's definitely the way
>> forward.
>>
>> 2017-02-20 17:11 GMT+01:00 Oscar Juarez <tridi.animei...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Houdini 16 launch event:
>>>
>>> https://vimeo.com/203373373
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Bradley Gabe <witha...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any chance you could post a direct link to this screencast?
>>>>
>>>> > On Feb 19, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com>

Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

Do it please, these things are hard to explain and Softimage is so well fine 
tuned in this respect I believe there is lot to learn from it. Make sure you do 
that because they are in a huge drive to usability in the viewport.

They have improved it a lot in H16 but I am sure there is more to do.. Then of 
course is the factor of being used to and you, l like me, will get used to the 
idiosyncrasies but it is a this moment that you are not 100% comfortable that 
is the most valuable.

Cheers
jb

> On 21 Feb 2017, at 10:45, Felix Geremus <felixgere...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey Tim, I know the Entagma Video (and all the others, amazing tutorials). It 
> helps a little bit. But I think it's funny that even during the tutorial he 
> frequently runs into similar problems I'm experiencing. Like the near 
> clipping plane constantly broken, having to reset the view because something 
> is off, difficulties to select stuff
> 
> Jordi, I will try to send my issues to SideFX as soon as I have some time.
> 
> I think the main problem is a completely awkward combination of shortcuts 
> behaving differently when different tools are active and even worse when my 
> cursor is in different parts of the layout. For example the nasty Esc key 
> puts me into view mode. Now in view mode the 1,2,3,4 keys change my current 
> view, while in select mode I switch between components. When I'm hovering the 
> network view 1 shows/hides the selected node. 
> Or I really like the Y key to Ghost or Hide other Objects. But the shortcut 
> only works while I'm in view mode, in select mode or while hovering the 
> network view nothing happens, in edit mode though it toggles through my 
> transform gizmos. This is madness! A shortcut should bring me into the 
> desired mode (select, edit, view) not require me hit another shortcut in 
> advance to behave the way I want it. Ok I'll end it here :)
> 
> 
> 
> 2017-02-21 0:30 GMT+01:00 Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk 
> <mailto:tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk>>:
> Hey Felix, I know what you mean and I still have some reservations about it 
> as a pure get-things-done-dirty moddler and scene assembler. Although I'm 
> hoping I just need to learn more to get comfortable with it. 
> 
> However this video might help a bit wth selections and the scene model.
> 
> http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/ 
> <http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/>
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tim. 
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
> <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>> on behalf of Felix Geremus 
> <felixgere...@googlemail.com <mailto:felixgere...@googlemail.com>>
> Sent: 20 February 2017 23:04:40
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list>
> Subject: Re: Opinion gathering
>  
> I am on the Houdini train for a couple of months now. And I really like it 
> for the most part, especially the more technical aspects are incredible and 
> way better than Softimage ever was. But I am still confused by all the praise 
> for Houdini in certain areas like poly modeling or scene assembly. I'm still 
> learning (and I'm on my own) so there is a high chance that I might do 
> something wrong. But as an example I think the selection and interaction 
> model is a complete mess. Quickly selecting and modifying geometry, like in 
> Soft or even Maya is still almost impossible, at least for me. I can't see 
> anybody doing some serious modeling inside this tool. H16 seems to be a step 
> in the right direction, but especially for those "get it done as quick and 
> dirty as possible" type of jobs, I still don't think it's the right tool. For 
> everything else it's definitely the way forward. 
> 
> 2017-02-20 17:11 GMT+01:00 Oscar Juarez <tridi.animei...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:tridi.animei...@gmail.com>>:
> Houdini 16 launch event:
> 
> https://vimeo.com/203373373 <https://vimeo.com/203373373>
> 
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Bradley Gabe <witha...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:witha...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Any chance you could post a direct link to this screencast?
> 
> > On Feb 19, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com 
> > <mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Have a look at the screencast they did.. you will see why the excitement.
> >
> > Interesting times ahead.
> > jb
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage

Re: Opinion gathering

[Felix Geremus]

Hey Tim, I know the Entagma Video (and all the others, amazing tutorials).
It helps a little bit. But I think it's funny that even during the tutorial
he frequently runs into similar problems I'm experiencing. Like the near
clipping plane constantly broken, having to reset the view because
something is off, difficulties to select stuff

Jordi, I will try to send my issues to SideFX as soon as I have some time.

I think the main problem is a completely awkward combination of shortcuts
behaving differently when different tools are active and even worse when my
cursor is in different parts of the layout. For example the nasty Esc key
puts me into view mode. Now in view mode the 1,2,3,4 keys change my current
view, while in select mode I switch between components. When I'm hovering
the network view 1 shows/hides the selected node.
Or I really like the Y key to Ghost or Hide other Objects. But the shortcut
only works while I'm in view mode, in select mode or while hovering the
network view nothing happens, in edit mode though it toggles through my
transform gizmos. This is madness! A shortcut should bring me into the
desired mode (select, edit, view) not require me hit another shortcut in
advance to behave the way I want it. Ok I'll end it here :)



2017-02-21 0:30 GMT+01:00 Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk>:

> Hey Felix, I know what you mean and I still have some reservations about
> it as a pure get-things-done-dirty moddler and scene assembler. Although
> I'm hoping I just need to learn more to get comfortable with it.
>
> However this video might help a bit wth selections and the scene model.
>
> http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim.
> --
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Felix Geremus <
> felixgere...@googlemail.com>
> *Sent:* 20 February 2017 23:04:40
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list
> *Subject:* Re: Opinion gathering
>
> I am on the Houdini train for a couple of months now. And I really like it
> for the most part, especially the more technical aspects are incredible and
> way better than Softimage ever was. But I am still confused by all the
> praise for Houdini in certain areas like poly modeling or scene assembly.
> I'm still learning (and I'm on my own) so there is a high chance that I
> might do something wrong. But as an example I think the selection and
> interaction model is a complete mess. Quickly selecting and modifying
> geometry, like in Soft or even Maya is still almost impossible, at least
> for me. I can't see anybody doing some serious modeling inside this tool.
> H16 seems to be a step in the right direction, but especially for those
> "get it done as quick and dirty as possible" type of jobs, I still don't
> think it's the right tool. For everything else it's definitely the way
> forward.
>
> 2017-02-20 17:11 GMT+01:00 Oscar Juarez <tridi.animei...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Houdini 16 launch event:
>>
>> https://vimeo.com/203373373
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Bradley Gabe <witha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Any chance you could post a direct link to this screencast?
>>>
>>> > On Feb 19, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Have a look at the screencast they did.. you will see why the
>>> excitement.
>>> >
>>> > Interesting times ahead.
>>> > jb
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
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Softimage Mailing List.
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Artur W]

I had a talk with one of teams Head in our place. I asked him about
clarisse and what he told me was something unexpected. He said that Houdini
is the best assembler for their team to render projects. He was also
excited about the discount that's currently on, planning to buy more seats.

If my test will be positive, I think I will also jump the Hwagon

Artur

2017-02-21 0:30 GMT+01:00 Tim Bolland <tim_boll...@hotmail.co.uk>:

> Hey Felix, I know what you mean and I still have some reservations about
> it as a pure get-things-done-dirty moddler and scene assembler. Although
> I'm hoping I just need to learn more to get comfortable with it.
>
> However this video might help a bit wth selections and the scene model.
>
> http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim.
> --
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Felix Geremus <
> felixgere...@googlemail.com>
> *Sent:* 20 February 2017 23:04:40
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list
> *Subject:* Re: Opinion gathering
>
> I am on the Houdini train for a couple of months now. And I really like it
> for the most part, especially the more technical aspects are incredible and
> way better than Softimage ever was. But I am still confused by all the
> praise for Houdini in certain areas like poly modeling or scene assembly.
> I'm still learning (and I'm on my own) so there is a high chance that I
> might do something wrong. But as an example I think the selection and
> interaction model is a complete mess. Quickly selecting and modifying
> geometry, like in Soft or even Maya is still almost impossible, at least
> for me. I can't see anybody doing some serious modeling inside this tool.
> H16 seems to be a step in the right direction, but especially for those
> "get it done as quick and dirty as possible" type of jobs, I still don't
> think it's the right tool. For everything else it's definitely the way
> forward.
>
> 2017-02-20 17:11 GMT+01:00 Oscar Juarez <tridi.animei...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Houdini 16 launch event:
>>
>> https://vimeo.com/203373373
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Bradley Gabe <witha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Any chance you could post a direct link to this screencast?
>>>
>>> > On Feb 19, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Have a look at the screencast they did.. you will see why the
>>> excitement.
>>> >
>>> > Interesting times ahead.
>>> > jb
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Tim Bolland]

Hey Felix, I know what you mean and I still have some reservations about it as 
a pure get-things-done-dirty moddler and scene assembler. Although I'm hoping I 
just need to learn more to get comfortable with it.

However this video might help a bit wth selections and the scene model.

http://www.entagma.com/select-and-navigate/

Cheers,

Tim.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Felix Geremus 
<felixgere...@googlemail.com>
Sent: 20 February 2017 23:04:40
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
Subject: Re: Opinion gathering

I am on the Houdini train for a couple of months now. And I really like it for 
the most part, especially the more technical aspects are incredible and way 
better than Softimage ever was. But I am still confused by all the praise for 
Houdini in certain areas like poly modeling or scene assembly. I'm still 
learning (and I'm on my own) so there is a high chance that I might do 
something wrong. But as an example I think the selection and interaction model 
is a complete mess. Quickly selecting and modifying geometry, like in Soft or 
even Maya is still almost impossible, at least for me. I can't see anybody 
doing some serious modeling inside this tool. H16 seems to be a step in the 
right direction, but especially for those "get it done as quick and dirty as 
possible" type of jobs, I still don't think it's the right tool. For everything 
else it's definitely the way forward.

2017-02-20 17:11 GMT+01:00 Oscar Juarez 
<tridi.animei...@gmail.com<mailto:tridi.animei...@gmail.com>>:
Houdini 16 launch event:

https://vimeo.com/203373373

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Bradley Gabe 
<witha...@gmail.com<mailto:witha...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Any chance you could post a direct link to this screencast?

> On Feb 19, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Jordi Bares 
> <jordiba...@gmail.com<mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Have a look at the screencast they did.. you will see why the excitement.
>
> Interesting times ahead.
> jb
--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to 
softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com>
 with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.


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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

May be there is an opportunity to send a video to SideFX about how do you want 
to work, what you miss, , etc… they surely will look at it as they have done in 
the past with some of my suggestions.

:-)
jb

> On 20 Feb 2017, at 23:04, Felix Geremus  wrote:
> 
> I am on the Houdini train for a couple of months now. And I really like it 
> for the most part, especially the more technical aspects are incredible and 
> way better than Softimage ever was. But I am still confused by all the praise 
> for Houdini in certain areas like poly modeling or scene assembly. I'm still 
> learning (and I'm on my own) so there is a high chance that I might do 
> something wrong. But as an example I think the selection and interaction 
> model is a complete mess. Quickly selecting and modifying geometry, like in 
> Soft or even Maya is still almost impossible, at least for me. I can't see 
> anybody doing some serious modeling inside this tool. H16 seems to be a step 
> in the right direction, but especially for those "get it done as quick and 
> dirty as possible" type of jobs, I still don't think it's the right tool. For 
> everything else it's definitely the way forward. 
> 
> 2017-02-20 17:11 GMT+01:00 Oscar Juarez  >:
> Houdini 16 launch event:
> 
> https://vimeo.com/203373373 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Bradley Gabe  > wrote:
> Any chance you could post a direct link to this screencast?
> 
> > On Feb 19, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Jordi Bares  > > wrote:
> >
> > Have a look at the screencast they did.. you will see why the excitement.
> >
> > Interesting times ahead.
> > jb
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>  with "unsubscribe" in the 
> subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
> 
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>  with "unsubscribe" in the 
> subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
> --
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> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

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Re: Opinion gathering

[Felix Geremus]

I am on the Houdini train for a couple of months now. And I really like it
for the most part, especially the more technical aspects are incredible and
way better than Softimage ever was. But I am still confused by all the
praise for Houdini in certain areas like poly modeling or scene assembly.
I'm still learning (and I'm on my own) so there is a high chance that I
might do something wrong. But as an example I think the selection and
interaction model is a complete mess. Quickly selecting and modifying
geometry, like in Soft or even Maya is still almost impossible, at least
for me. I can't see anybody doing some serious modeling inside this tool.
H16 seems to be a step in the right direction, but especially for those
"get it done as quick and dirty as possible" type of jobs, I still don't
think it's the right tool. For everything else it's definitely the way
forward.

2017-02-20 17:11 GMT+01:00 Oscar Juarez :

> Houdini 16 launch event:
>
> https://vimeo.com/203373373
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Bradley Gabe  wrote:
>
>> Any chance you could post a direct link to this screencast?
>>
>> > On Feb 19, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Jordi Bares  wrote:
>> >
>> > Have a look at the screencast they did.. you will see why the
>> excitement.
>> >
>> > Interesting times ahead.
>> > jb
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>>
>
>
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Oscar Juarez]

Houdini 16 launch event:

https://vimeo.com/203373373

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Bradley Gabe  wrote:

> Any chance you could post a direct link to this screencast?
>
> > On Feb 19, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Jordi Bares  wrote:
> >
> > Have a look at the screencast they did.. you will see why the excitement.
> >
> > Interesting times ahead.
> > jb
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Bradley Gabe]

Any chance you could post a direct link to this screencast? 

> On Feb 19, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Jordi Bares  wrote:
> 
> Have a look at the screencast they did.. you will see why the excitement.
> 
> Interesting times ahead.
> jb
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

Actually, Flame has been upgraded very very nicely and the new pricing approach 
makes it very attractive against Nuke which, although very entrenched in film 
has not fully knocked Flame and the battle is on. Here at Glassworks we use 
both but Flame latest version has reinvigorated the compositing team and to be 
honest Autodesk has done a great job over the last 3 years.

Regarding Mudbox, seems to me a bit lacking behind the very much improved 
Zbrush and I imagine it will end up integrated in Maya or simply discarded… a 
shame… it could have been great but…

With Motion Builder I am not up to date but the latest I saw was very very sad… 
amazing piece of software but… is there any development on it Seems so 
sad…
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/motionbuilder/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2017/ENU/MotionBuilder/files/GUID-94D395FD-D3C6-4113-A3B9-4CFD0AE28181-htm.html
 



jb

> On 20 Feb 2017, at 14:05, Graham Bell  wrote:
> 
> I don't know, I'm well out of the loop now.And any knowledge I did have has 
> probably expired by now.
> 
> I'd be surprised if was to be chopped. Just look at the public records and 
> you'll see that it makes alot of money.
> Look at their folio and offerings, maybe AD are doing a reshuffle both with 
> people and product. Is Mudbox officially dead? Mobu has a core and niche 
> userbase. Do people still invest in Flames anymore?
> 
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 2:02 AM Eugene Flormata  > wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 5:40 AM, Graham Bell  > wrote:
> 
> 
> Regarding AD though, kinda hard to measure right now. I don’t hear many 
> positive vibes. More recent cuts and layoffs including Eddie Perberg, the Max 
> product manager. Even with my understanding it seems bizarre.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> does that mean max is next on the chopping block? 
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Graham Bell]

I don't know, I'm well out of the loop now.And any knowledge I did have has
probably expired by now.

I'd be surprised if was to be chopped. Just look at the public records and
you'll see that it makes alot of money.
Look at their folio and offerings, maybe AD are doing a reshuffle both with
people and product. Is Mudbox officially dead? Mobu has a core and niche
userbase. Do people still invest in Flames anymore?

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 2:02 AM Eugene Flormata  wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 5:40 AM, Graham Bell  wrote:
>
>
> Regarding AD though, kinda hard to measure right now. I don’t hear many
> positive vibes. More recent cuts and layoffs including Eddie Perberg, the
> Max product manager. Even with my understanding it seems bizarre.
>
>
>
>
>
> does that mean max is next on the chopping block?
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Eugene Flormata]

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 5:40 AM, Graham Bell  wrote:

>
> Regarding AD though, kinda hard to measure right now. I don’t hear many
> positive vibes. More recent cuts and layoffs including Eddie Perberg, the
> Max product manager. Even with my understanding it seems bizarre.
>
>
>
>
>
does that mean max is next on the chopping block?
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jason S]

/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
    Subject: Re: Opinion
gathering
  

  
  
 
  
  
 
  
  

  

  On 19 Feb
2017, at 13:40, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com>
wrote:

  
  
 
  
  

  
I
think the problem Houdini has is
penetrating the more ‘traditional’
modelling, UV, and animation
workflows. Maya/Max still dominate
here. C4D and Modo are trying hard
but the former still seem to rule
the roost.
  

  


  
 
  


  
This is
  already happening, Modelling tends to
  happen in Zbrush, UV tends to happen in
  UVlayout and you may only use Maya to do
  basic modelling and basic UV stuff..
  although imperfect, that is easy to do in
  Houdini with today’s toolset, let alone
  H16 toolset.
  


  
 
  


  
Rigging and
  Animation are the two parts of this
  pipeline Maya has a stronghold, but IMHO
  it is only a matter of time to see a shift
  in that area too.
  


  


  


  

  
Is
there a swing towards Houdini in
this area? Or is it still an
augmented option in a Maya/Max/Modo
pipeline. That would be the
interesting thing for me.
  

  


  
 
  


  
I have been
  long advocating to use Houdini as the
  backbone of the pipeline to avoid software
  fragmentation and the enourmous amount of
  glue, support, plugins, hidden costs that
  such approach brings… Just list the number
  of applications you would use if you
  didn’t have Softimage by your side.
  


  
 
  


  
Zbrush,
  Topogun, UVlayout, Marvelous Designer,
  Mari, Photoshop, Maya for Rig and
  Animation, Maya for Cloth sims, Arnold,
  Massive, Real flow… the list is insane!!!
  


  
 
  

   

Re: Opinion gathering

[Cristobal Infante]

things in on.



   - I agree in terms of Soft users and studios, your hand was forced. For
   others, the factors you mention do have a baring and the biggest influence.
   We use mainly Max, which I Ioathe, but it gets the job done and does what
   we ask of it for what we do. In our context, Houdini unfortunately offers
   us little or nothing. I’d gladly take Fabric as a tools framework though.







*From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [
mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jordi Bares
*Sent:* 19 February 2017 15:08
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <
softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
*Subject:* Re: Opinion gathering





On 19 Feb 2017, at 13:40, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com> wrote:



I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’
modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D
and Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.



This is already happening, Modelling tends to happen in Zbrush, UV tends to
happen in UVlayout and you may only use Maya to do basic modelling and
basic UV stuff.. although imperfect, that is easy to do in Houdini with
today’s toolset, let alone H16 toolset.



Rigging and Animation are the two parts of this pipeline Maya has a
stronghold, but IMHO it is only a matter of time to see a shift in that
area too.




Is there a swing towards Houdini in this area? Or is it still an augmented
option in a Maya/Max/Modo pipeline. That would be the interesting thing for
me.



I have been long advocating to use Houdini as the backbone of the pipeline
to avoid software fragmentation and the enourmous amount of glue, support,
plugins, hidden costs that such approach brings… Just list the number of
applications you would use if you didn’t have Softimage by your side.



Zbrush, Topogun, UVlayout, Marvelous Designer, Mari, Photoshop, Maya for
Rig and Animation, Maya for Cloth sims, Arnold, Massive, Real flow… the
list is insane!!!



I use this other approach;



Zbrush, Mari, Photoshop, Marvelous Designer and finally, Houdini for
everything else.



Less glue, less going back and forth...



Plus let’s face it… an animator needs only very few tools and normally have
the easiest transition in any pipeline to new packages. I can train an
animator to do his job in Houdini in barely a day and in a week is pretty
much as productive with Houdini as he is with Maya (and I have tested this
in the past)



I had hoped to make the recent Houdini event but client deadlines
intervened. I echo Andy’s comments though about the number of Soft users.
For me Houdini is a no-brainer when looking for an ICE replacement, perhaps
with some Fabric thrown in there for good measure.



Have a look at the screencast they did.. you will see why the excitement.



Interesting times ahead.

jb



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RE: Opinion gathering

[Graham Bell]

 

I had so many troubles with CAD data I really can’t say it is easier at all… 
From complex file formats from various vendors, standards like STEP that 
produces humongous files and the end result of advanced NURBS it is really not 
fun to deal with. I ended up using Rhino to have an export but I don’t 
understand how does not come as standard tool in 3D packages (and specially 
Maya given its connection with AD product line). -  Again, may be I am missing 
something here regarding CAD data..

 

 

*   I know what you mean, we do predominantly automotive, so we work a lot 
with CAD. STEP is a format we use a lot, especially with interop. Maya can take 
STP but only if you install Direct Connect that originally came from Alias. AD 
have appeared to replace that with some new file format translation stuff and 
removed (bizarrely) some export capability. But anyway, we don’t take STEPs 
into Maya/Max, we go through Rhino to clean it, we even wrote a Shotgun 
integration. Rhino is great, very very stable. But we have a bunch of tools 
that allows us to batch and process STEP files large and small, so for us we 
can handle CAD very well.

The key with CAD data is how its exported from the source, this can make a big 
difference and if someone receives CAD from a client, this can be where the 
problems start. 

 

 

 

>From what I saw with NEX, seemed to my naked eye (correct me if I am wrong) 
>like little more than the same tools we had for years in XSI (then Softimage) 
>so I was certainly not impressed.

 

Regarding the UV layout, it was bad Graham, very bad… the UVs were unusable 
with bad padding all over, non-coherent results from every iteration of the 
unfold… artifacts on the edges…

 

There were things in NEX that Soft did have, but also things it didn’t. It was 
by far the No.1 modelling plugin toolset for Maya, probably why AD bought it. 
In many Maya users would tell us to simply buy it and implement it properly and 
fully, so they did.

I’ve never minded Maya’s UV editor, but then production wise I’ve had an array 
of additional scripts and tools for it, which is both a plus and minus for Maya.

Out of the box, I’d say that Soft always had the best UV editor. 

 

 

I am sure any package has an audience and if it works for you, great… if you 
can make money out of it… well, that is the trick right?

 

My reasoning is that the things we were doing 6 years ago with Softimage (and 
still today), you can’t do today with Maya, Max or anything other than Houdini… 
and that is hard thing to swallow.

 

I would agree with that. Even now Soft has many things that are better than a 
lot of packages out there. It’s funny seeing the Max guys wax lyrical about the 
Max Creation Graph, which is as blatant a rip-off ICE as you can get. It’s both 
funny and sad seeing Max guys getting excited about doing stuff that we were 
able to do ICE 9 years ago!

 

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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

> On 19 Feb 2017, at 18:09, Graham Bell  wrote:
> 
>  
> See for yourself...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cYNWzQWeHU=10 
> 
> And you will find hundreds of examples that showcase how good Zbrush is on 
> the hard surface modelling.
> I’m still not completely convinced tbh. It’s great what people do, but for 
> automotive you wouldn’t really do that. We couldn’t work like that and it’s 
> actually easier to retopo from the CAD anyway.

I had so many troubles with CAD data I really can’t say it is easier at all… 
From complex file formats from various vendors, standards like STEP that 
produces humongous files and the end result of advanced NURBS it is really not 
fun to deal with. I ended up using Rhino to have an export but I don’t 
understand how does not come as standard tool in 3D packages (and specially 
Maya given its connection with AD product line). -  Again, may be I am missing 
something here regarding CAD data..

>   True, Retopo has been improved a lot with the addition of the new tools but 
> UV work in Maya was broken last time we used it… 
> ...that was 6 months ago so there wasn’t a lot to celebrate on my corner.
> I may be missing something… what I have seen so far is small improvements 
> over old toolsets but I would love to see advanced bevelling, complex boleans 
> and in Maya that prove me wrong.
> 
> - I would say the improvements have been significant, but might depend on the 
> benchmark they’re marked against. NEX was implemented, then build upon, then 
> old legacy removed. Broken is a strong word and not 100% true, but I agree 
> UVs still need work, but the nips and tucks they’ve done have been good. 
> Feedback from Maya users was generally positive. I haven’t fully looked at 
> Maya 2017 yet, but comments haven’t been great.

From what I saw with NEX, seemed to my naked eye (correct me if I am wrong) 
like little more than the same tools we had for years in XSI (then Softimage) 
so I was certainly not impressed.

Regarding the UV layout, it was bad Graham, very bad… the UVs were unusable 
with bad padding all over, non-coherent results from every iteration of the 
unfold… artifacts on the edges…

> Different context, AD has made sure we have to choose.
> For the studios using Softimage the burden is unavoidable and the costs are 
> now with H16 not too dissimilar so I can see a good scenario unfolding.
> For those using Maya I am not sure, I am inclined to think it would probably 
> depend on the work they do vs the costs to produce that work, that will be 
> the trigger.
> Said that, the costs of freelancers, training and adaptation are different so 
> as long as there is talent available, this things in on.
>  
> I agree in terms of Soft users and studios, your hand was forced. For others, 
> the factors you mention do have a baring and the biggest influence. We use 
> mainly Max, which I Ioathe, but it gets the job done and does what we ask of 
> it for what we do. In our context, Houdini unfortunately offers us little or 
> nothing. I’d gladly take Fabric as a tools framework though.

I am sure any package has an audience and if it works for you, great… if you 
can make money out of it… well, that is the trick right?

My reasoning is that the things we were doing 6 years ago with Softimage (and 
still today), you can’t do today with Maya, Max or anything other than Houdini… 
and that is hard thing to swallow.

Cheers
Jb

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RE: Opinion gathering

[Graham Bell]

 

See for yourself...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cYNWzQWeHU 
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cYNWzQWeHU=10> =10

 

And you will find hundreds of examples that showcase how good Zbrush is on the 
hard surface modelling.

 

*   I’m still not completely convinced tbh. It’s great what people do, but 
for automotive you wouldn’t really do that. We couldn’t work like that and it’s 
actually easier to retopo from the CAD anyway.

 

 

True, Retopo has been improved a lot with the addition of the new tools but UV 
work in Maya was broken last time we used it… 

 

...that was 6 months ago so there wasn’t a lot to celebrate on my corner.

 

I may be missing something… what I have seen so far is small improvements over 
old toolsets but I would love to see advanced bevelling, complex boleans and in 
Maya that prove me wrong.


- I would say the improvements have been significant, but might depend on the 
benchmark they’re marked against. NEX was implemented, then build upon, then 
old legacy removed. Broken is a strong word and not 100% true, but I agree UVs 
still need work, but the nips and tucks they’ve done have been good. Feedback 
from Maya users was generally positive. I haven’t fully looked at Maya 2017 
yet, but comments haven’t been great.

 

 

 

IMHO I am afraid Modo is on a league on its own on all things modelling.

 

*   I would agree a lot with that, but my comparison was against more 
general usage. And for all of Modo’s power, personally I don’t see more 
widespread adoption. I always here of this mass migration away from Max/Maya, 
but I’ve yet to see it. The Foundry have to press a lot harder here. I think 
many just seem to default to Maya or Max.

 

 

Different context, AD has made sure we have to choose.

 

For the studios using Softimage the burden is unavoidable and the costs are now 
with H16 not too dissimilar so I can see a good scenario unfolding.

 

For those using Maya I am not sure, I am inclined to think it would probably 
depend on the work they do vs the costs to produce that work, that will be the 
trigger.

 

Said that, the costs of freelancers, training and adaptation are different so 
as long as there is talent available, this things in on.

 

*   I agree in terms of Soft users and studios, your hand was forced. For 
others, the factors you mention do have a baring and the biggest influence. We 
use mainly Max, which I Ioathe, but it gets the job done and does what we ask 
of it for what we do. In our context, Houdini unfortunately offers us little or 
nothing. I’d gladly take Fabric as a tools framework though.

 

 

  

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>  
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares
Sent: 19 February 2017 15:08
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> >
Subject: Re: Opinion gathering

 

 

On 19 Feb 2017, at 13:40, Graham Bell < <mailto:bell...@gmail.com> 
bell...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’ 
modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D and 
Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.

 

This is already happening, Modelling tends to happen in Zbrush, UV tends to 
happen in UVlayout and you may only use Maya to do basic modelling and basic UV 
stuff.. although imperfect, that is easy to do in Houdini with today’s toolset, 
let alone H16 toolset.

 

Rigging and Animation are the two parts of this pipeline Maya has a stronghold, 
but IMHO it is only a matter of time to see a shift in that area too.






Is there a swing towards Houdini in this area? Or is it still an augmented 
option in a Maya/Max/Modo pipeline. That would be the interesting thing for me.

 

I have been long advocating to use Houdini as the backbone of the pipeline to 
avoid software fragmentation and the enourmous amount of glue, support, 
plugins, hidden costs that such approach brings… Just list the number of 
applications you would use if you didn’t have Softimage by your side.

 

Zbrush, Topogun, UVlayout, Marvelous Designer, Mari, Photoshop, Maya for Rig 
and Animation, Maya for Cloth sims, Arnold, Massive, Real flow… the list is 
insane!!!

 

I use this other approach;

 

Zbrush, Mari, Photoshop, Marvelous Designer and finally, Houdini for everything 
else.

 

Less glue, less going back and forth...

 

Plus let’s face it… an animator needs only very few tools and normally have the 
easiest transition in any pipeline to new packages. I can train an animator to 
do his job in Houdini in barely a day and in a week is pretty much as 
productive with Houdini as he is with Maya (and I have tested this in the past)

 

I had hoped to make the recent Houdini event but client deadlines

Re: Opinion gathering

[Jonathan Moore]

>
> May be but the new wave of artists/designers I have met are certainly not
> afraid of getting onto very technical stuff… is this a trend? I think so
> but I may be wrong here.


Sure but don’t underestimate the situation, like new directors that think
> multiple media in a natural form and are a one man band compared to old
> school ones, this is changing. (In my opinion)


In agreement here on all points. The agencies I was involved in over the
years (Poke, Lateral & DNA) were very much about a unified creative idea
that moved through media executions. I think this probably came more
naturally for creatives working in the digital sector where 3d is simply a
part of the mix.

Working with University of the Arts (London) I'm seeing a massive change in
how students perceive the essential skills and qualities integral to
creativity. They see algorithms as a natural aspect of creative output;
whether they're looking to have a career in motion design, fashion,
architecture or VFX, programming be it written or visual informs, the
creative output.

On 19 February 2017 at 17:06, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 19 Feb 2017, at 16:21, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Zbrush for characters I can see, but for Hard Surface above something like
> Maya’s sudivs?
>
>
> See for yourself...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cYNWzQWeHU=10
>
> And you will find hundreds of examples that showcase how good Zbrush is on
> the hard surface modelling.
>
> I’m not quite sure.
> And, whether anyone is prepared to admit it Maya’s tools have seen a big
> improvement, to a point where they reduced the need to even retopo in
> something like 3Dcoat or even UVlayout.
>
>
> True, Retopo has been improved a lot with the addition of the new tools
> but UV work in Maya was broken last time we used it…
>
> ...that was 6 months ago so there wasn’t a lot to celebrate on my corner.
>
>
> Personally I’d put them above Max and even Softs. Soft’s weren’t bad by
> any means, but Maya’s improvements in this area have started to put it
> ahead in this area.
>
>
> I may be missing something… what I have seen so far is small improvements
> over old toolsets but I would love to see advanced bevelling, complex
> boleans and in Maya that prove me wrong.
>
> I’d put Modo as the closest competitor in this area now.
>
>
> IMHO I am afraid Modo is on a league on its own on all things modelling.
>
> I’m with you on a lot of everything else, but the problem that Houdini
> faces is the same as what we had with pushing Softimage/ICE. When faced
> with a studio that uses Maya/Max (for better or for worse), with a bunch of
> plugins/tools, unless faced with some a certain situation, they don’t
> really see a reason to switch.
>
>
> Different context, AD has made sure we have to choose.
>
>
> They may like Houdini a lot, but they can do everything they need and more
> with what they have, so they see no reason to be burdened with the cost and
> upheaval of moving.
>
>
> For the studios using Softimage the burden is unavoidable and the costs
> are now with H16 not too dissimilar so I can see a good scenario unfolding.
>
> For those using Maya I am not sure, I am inclined to think it would
> probably depend on the work they do vs the costs to produce that work, that
> will be the trigger.
>
> Said that, the costs of freelancers, training and adaptation are different
> so as long as there is talent available, this things in on.
>
>  But who knows, I think the landscape has changed dramatically and is in
> many ways, still changing. I think the next 12-18months could be very
> interesting in terms of software out there.
>
>
> Agreed.
> jb
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
> listproc.autodesk.com <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Jordi Bares
> *Sent:* 19 February 2017 15:08
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Opinion gathering
>
>
>
> On 19 Feb 2017, at 13:40, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’
> modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D
> and Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.
>
>
> This is already happening, Modelling tends to happen in Zbrush, UV tends
> to happen in UVlayout and you may only use Maya to do basic modelling and
> basic UV stuff.. although imperfect, that is easy to do in Houdini with
> today’s toolset, let alone H16 toolset.
>
> Rigging and Animation are t

Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

> On 19 Feb 2017, at 16:21, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Zbrush for characters I can see, but for Hard Surface above something like 
> Maya’s sudivs?

See for yourself...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cYNWzQWeHU=10

And you will find hundreds of examples that showcase how good Zbrush is on the 
hard surface modelling.

> I’m not quite sure.
> And, whether anyone is prepared to admit it Maya’s tools have seen a big 
> improvement, to a point where they reduced the need to even retopo in 
> something like 3Dcoat or even UVlayout. 

True, Retopo has been improved a lot with the addition of the new tools but UV 
work in Maya was broken last time we used it… 

...that was 6 months ago so there wasn’t a lot to celebrate on my corner.

> 
> Personally I’d put them above Max and even Softs. Soft’s weren’t bad by any 
> means, but Maya’s improvements in this area have started to put it ahead in 
> this area.

I may be missing something… what I have seen so far is small improvements over 
old toolsets but I would love to see advanced bevelling, complex boleans and in 
Maya that prove me wrong.

> I’d put Modo as the closest competitor in this area now. 

IMHO I am afraid Modo is on a league on its own on all things modelling.

> I’m with you on a lot of everything else, but the problem that Houdini faces 
> is the same as what we had with pushing Softimage/ICE. When faced with a 
> studio that uses Maya/Max (for better or for worse), with a bunch of 
> plugins/tools, unless faced with some a certain situation, they don’t really 
> see a reason to switch.

Different context, AD has made sure we have to choose.
 
> They may like Houdini a lot, but they can do everything they need and more 
> with what they have, so they see no reason to be burdened with the cost and 
> upheaval of moving.

For the studios using Softimage the burden is unavoidable and the costs are now 
with H16 not too dissimilar so I can see a good scenario unfolding.

For those using Maya I am not sure, I am inclined to think it would probably 
depend on the work they do vs the costs to produce that work, that will be the 
trigger.

Said that, the costs of freelancers, training and adaptation are different so 
as long as there is talent available, this things in on.

>  But who knows, I think the landscape has changed dramatically and is in many 
> ways, still changing. I think the next 12-18months could be very interesting 
> in terms of software out there.

Agreed.
jb

>   
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares
> Sent: 19 February 2017 15:08
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> Subject: Re: Opinion gathering
>  
>  
>> On 19 Feb 2017, at 13:40, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:bell...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’ 
>> modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D 
>> and Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.
>  
> This is already happening, Modelling tends to happen in Zbrush, UV tends to 
> happen in UVlayout and you may only use Maya to do basic modelling and basic 
> UV stuff.. although imperfect, that is easy to do in Houdini with today’s 
> toolset, let alone H16 toolset.
>  
> Rigging and Animation are the two parts of this pipeline Maya has a 
> stronghold, but IMHO it is only a matter of time to see a shift in that area 
> too.
> 
> 
>> Is there a swing towards Houdini in this area? Or is it still an augmented 
>> option in a Maya/Max/Modo pipeline. That would be the interesting thing for 
>> me.
>  
> I have been long advocating to use Houdini as the backbone of the pipeline to 
> avoid software fragmentation and the enourmous amount of glue, support, 
> plugins, hidden costs that such approach brings… Just list the number of 
> applications you would use if you didn’t have Softimage by your side.
>  
> Zbrush, Topogun, UVlayout, Marvelous Designer, Mari, Photoshop, Maya for Rig 
> and Animation, Maya for Cloth sims, Arnold, Massive, Real flow… the list is 
> insane!!!
>  
> I use this other approach;
>  
> Zbrush, Mari, Photoshop, Marvelous Designer and finally, Houdini for 
> everything else.
>  
> Less glue, less going back and forth...
>  
> Plus let’s face it… an animator needs only very few tools and normally have 
> the easiest transition in any pipeline to new packages. I can train an 
> animator to do his job in Houdini in barely a day and in a week is pretty 
> much as productive with Houdini as he is with Maya (and I h

Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

> On 19 Feb 2017, at 16:58, Jonathan Moore  wrote:
> 
> Jordi, I'm on your side of the discussion and for many of the same reasons 
> but it must also be said there are studios doing very good business off the 
> back of primary host DCC's supported by 3rd party plugins. The C4D business 
> model has been based off this premise for a very long time. ;)

Certainly, I am not saying there is only one way and if I was doing motion 
graphics it is easy to see the community is very successful.

> The primary reason is that some artists don't click with the more technical 
> side of 3d in general terms and procedural workflows in particular. And 
> there's nothing wrong in this. If you look at a sector like motion design, 
> which has very short project turn arounds and where the practitioners are far 
> more likely to have come from a traditional arts background (fine art or 
> graphic design), you can see why the hosts and plugins business is still in 
> rude health. The reason that C4D and AE are the bedrock for many studios 
> working in this sector is that they're both heavily focused on intuitive non 
> technical artist workflows. 

May be but the new wave of artists/designers I have met are certainly not 
afraid of getting onto very technical stuff… is this a trend? I think so but I 
may be wrong here.

> There's great work being produced by artists that have an inability to think 
> programmatically. And it's important that products exist to cater to these 
> artists; Houdini is certainly a product I'd never recommend to someone that 
> finds programming concepts difficult to grasp.
> 
> I ran a full service design agency for a good many years servicing Levis, 
> Amnesty, Channel 4, Adidas & Penguin amongst others. I sold the agency on to 
> a larger network in 2009 due to long term ill health but our studio model and 
> breadth of output was very similar to Man vs TV - http://mvsm.com/ 
>  - who I guess your familiar with as Simon Holmedal was 
> recently featured by SideFX showcasing his Houdini work (plus they're pretty 
> well known within the London creative community). In that type of agency many 
> of your best artists have an inability to think programmatically and their 
> number outweighs TD's like Simon Holmedal greatly.

Sure but don’t underestimate the situation, like new directors that think 
multiple media in a natural form and are a one man band compared to old school 
ones, this is changing. (In my opinion)

> As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think the lines between the art and 
> engineering have blurred dramatically for the latest generation of creative 
> talent entering the workplace. And this in turn will very probably change the 
> makeup of creative businesses servicing the sector.
> 
> I have great admiration for the approach you've taken at Glassworks and think 
> it's an approach that will be taken by far more businesses in the creative 
> sector; especially in this age of rapid development where integrating new DCC 
> builds across the studio is far easier if it doesn't have to factor the 
> integration of 3rd party plugins with equal rapid development paths. However 
> at this point I still feel that Houdini isn't necessarily the right package 
> for everybody. It may be easier for a studio to be centred around a less 
> technical DCC like C4D, and 3rd party plugins specific to their needs.

Very possible, but they better bring real value to the material they produce.
jb

> 
> On 19 February 2017 at 15:15, Jordi Bares  > wrote:
> 
> > On 19 Feb 2017, at 14:44, Tom Kleinenberg  > > wrote:
> >
> > For the front end of the pipeline Zbrush is the de-facto digital maquette 
> > package and a lot of senior modellers seem to be pushing it further along 
> > the pipeline (blendshape creation, variation building, that sort of thing. 
> > The retopo is still a problem but Pixologic's getting better at it and 
> > there are alternatives like 3DCoat.
> 
> Have you tried the topobuild tool in Houdini? Getting there…
> jb
> 
> 
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>  with "unsubscribe" in the 
> subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

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RE: Opinion gathering

[bellsey]

Well with only one core product, it’s easier for SideFX to do that, but it is a 
good advantage that they provide.

 

I’m not going to get into debates around Softimage vs Maya development or the 
perception there of. Certainly not a public list like this. Discussion over a 
soho beer, well maybe. I still know where the bodies are buried, so to speak….. 
:-)

 

I get the venting against Maya, especially if you’ve come from years of Soft 
with little or no knowledge of Maya schema and workflow. It’s going to be 
strange and baffling. I’ve used Maya  nearly as long as Soft so I was kinda 
used to it. I recall the transition training we offered to people, which 
although had good intentions I could see and feel the pain in peoples faces.

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Mirko Jankovic
Sent: 19 February 2017 16:32
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Opinion gathering

 

Well to start with retarded subscription only policy for AD, there is one 
reason to start looking for another solution.

Really really buggy released versions and then months till fixes compared to 
daily builds on SideFX.

 

Finaly can't resist but:

"Soft’s weren’t bad by any means, but Maya’s improvements in this area have 
started to put it ahead in this area."

After couple years of complete ignore on any development on Softimage tools and 
then killing it completely.. and two years after kill is made maya is starting 
to put it ahead.. Well good for maya, this tempo they will maybe become a bit 
better then Softimage.. in 2025 or something.

Couldn't resist on that but being serious, there is so much frustration with 
maya every day usage that is impossible to ignore it. On the other hand it has 
huge advantage being shoveled all over the industry that is impossible to skip 
it.

Houdini on the other hand have really really hard task of completely revamping 
big areas of use and then again doing PR work to explain people that you don't 
have to be programmer to model something or animate in Houdini.

But shift is definitely happening more and more and seems like SideFX is making 
good steps for the moment. 

 

Finally, watching latest Houdini 16 presentation, you can feel enthusiasm and 
real progress again.

Look for new maya coming, oh they bought and inserted another bunch of plugins 
or parts from another software.. and they are not working yet so wait for SP 
234... and yes it is true.. couple updates so far and they still haven't fixed  
maya freezing with vp2 active in huge number of people. But yea who needs 
viewport working not like you are using it non stop 

ᐧ

 

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 5:21 PM, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com 
<mailto:bell...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Zbrush for characters I can see, but for Hard Surface above something like 
Maya’s sudivs? I’m not quite sure.

And, whether anyone is prepared to admit it Maya’s tools have seen a big 
improvement, to a point where they reduced the need to even retopo in something 
like 3Dcoat or even UVlayout. 

 

Personally I’d put them above Max and even Softs. Soft’s weren’t bad by any 
means, but Maya’s improvements in this area have started to put it ahead in 
this area.

I’d put Modo as the closest competitor in this area now. 

 

I’m with you on a lot of everything else, but the problem that Houdini faces is 
the same as what we had with pushing Softimage/ICE. When faced with a studio 
that uses Maya/Max (for better or for worse), with a bunch of plugins/tools, 
unless faced with some a certain situation, they don’t really see a reason to 
switch.

They may like Houdini a lot, but they can do everything they need and more with 
what they have, so they see no reason to be burdened with the cost and upheaval 
of moving.

 

But who knows, I think the landscape has changed dramatically and is in many 
ways, still changing. I think the next 12-18months could be very interesting in 
terms of software out there.

 

 

From:  <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto: 
<mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares
Sent: 19 February 2017 15:08
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List.  
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list> 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list < 
<mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Opinion gathering

 

 

On 19 Feb 2017, at 13:40, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com 
<mailto:bell...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’ 
modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D and 
Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to ru

Re: Opinion gathering

[Jonathan Moore]

Jordi, I'm on your side of the discussion and for many of the same reasons
but it must also be said there are studios doing very good business off the
back of primary host DCC's supported by 3rd party plugins. The C4D business
model has been based off this premise for a very long time. ;)

The primary reason is that some artists don't click with the more technical
side of 3d in general terms and procedural workflows in particular. And
there's nothing wrong in this. If you look at a sector like motion design,
which has very short project turn arounds and where the practitioners are
far more likely to have come from a traditional arts background (fine art
or graphic design), you can see why the hosts and plugins business is still
in rude health. The reason that C4D and AE are the bedrock for many studios
working in this sector is that they're both heavily focused on intuitive
non technical artist workflows.

There's great work being produced by artists that have an inability to
think programmatically. And it's important that products exist to cater to
these artists; Houdini is certainly a product I'd never recommend to
someone that finds programming concepts difficult to grasp.

I ran a full service design agency for a good many years servicing Levis,
Amnesty, Channel 4, Adidas & Penguin amongst others. I sold the agency on
to a larger network in 2009 due to long term ill health but our studio
model and breadth of output was very similar to Man vs TV - http://mvsm.com/
- who I guess your familiar with as Simon Holmedal was recently featured by
SideFX showcasing his Houdini work (plus they're pretty well known within
the London creative community). In that type of agency many of your best
artists have an inability to think programmatically and their number
outweighs TD's like Simon Holmedal greatly.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think the lines between the art
and engineering have blurred dramatically for the latest generation of
creative talent entering the workplace. And this in turn will very probably
change the makeup of creative businesses servicing the sector.

I have great admiration for the approach you've taken at Glassworks and
think it's an approach that will be taken by far more businesses in the
creative sector; especially in this age of rapid development where
integrating new DCC builds across the studio is far easier if it doesn't
have to factor the integration of 3rd party plugins with equal rapid
development paths. However at this point I still feel that Houdini isn't
necessarily the right package for everybody. It may be easier for a studio
to be centred around a less technical DCC like C4D, and 3rd party plugins
specific to their needs.

On 19 February 2017 at 15:15, Jordi Bares  wrote:

>
> > On 19 Feb 2017, at 14:44, Tom Kleinenberg  wrote:
> >
> > For the front end of the pipeline Zbrush is the de-facto digital
> maquette package and a lot of senior modellers seem to be pushing it
> further along the pipeline (blendshape creation, variation building, that
> sort of thing. The retopo is still a problem but Pixologic's getting better
> at it and there are alternatives like 3DCoat.
>
> Have you tried the topobuild tool in Houdini? Getting there…
> jb
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: Opinion gathering

[Mirko Jankovic]

Well to start with retarded subscription only policy for AD, there is one
reason to start looking for another solution.
Really really buggy released versions and then months till fixes compared
to daily builds on SideFX.

Finaly can't resist but:
"Soft’s weren’t bad by any means, but Maya’s improvements in this area have
started to put it ahead in this area."
After couple years of complete ignore on any development on Softimage tools
and then killing it completely.. and two years after kill is made maya is
starting to put it ahead.. Well good for maya, this tempo they will maybe
become a bit better then Softimage.. in 2025 or something.
Couldn't resist on that but being serious, there is so much frustration
with maya every day usage that is impossible to ignore it. On the other
hand it has huge advantage being shoveled all over the industry that is
impossible to skip it.
Houdini on the other hand have really really hard task of
completely revamping big areas of use and then again doing PR work to
explain people that you don't have to be programmer to model something or
animate in Houdini.
But shift is definitely happening more and more and seems like SideFX is
making good steps for the moment.

Finally, watching latest Houdini 16 presentation, you can feel enthusiasm
and real progress again.
Look for new maya coming, oh they bought and inserted another bunch of
plugins or parts from another software.. and they are not working yet so
wait for SP 234... and yes it is true.. couple updates so far and they
still haven't fixed  maya freezing with vp2 active in huge number of
people. But yea who needs viewport working not like you are using it non
stop
ᐧ

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 5:21 PM, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Zbrush for characters I can see, but for Hard Surface above something like
> Maya’s sudivs? I’m not quite sure.
>
> And, whether anyone is prepared to admit it Maya’s tools have seen a big
> improvement, to a point where they reduced the need to even retopo in
> something like 3Dcoat or even UVlayout.
>
>
>
> Personally I’d put them above Max and even Softs. Soft’s weren’t bad by
> any means, but Maya’s improvements in this area have started to put it
> ahead in this area.
>
> I’d put Modo as the closest competitor in this area now.
>
>
>
> I’m with you on a lot of everything else, but the problem that Houdini
> faces is the same as what we had with pushing Softimage/ICE. When faced
> with a studio that uses Maya/Max (for better or for worse), with a bunch of
> plugins/tools, unless faced with some a certain situation, they don’t
> really see a reason to switch.
>
> They may like Houdini a lot, but they can do everything they need and more
> with what they have, so they see no reason to be burdened with the cost and
> upheaval of moving.
>
>
>
> But who knows, I think the landscape has changed dramatically and is in
> many ways, still changing. I think the next 12-18months could be very
> interesting in terms of software out there.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
> listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Jordi Bares
> *Sent:* 19 February 2017 15:08
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Opinion gathering
>
>
>
>
>
> On 19 Feb 2017, at 13:40, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’
> modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D
> and Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.
>
>
>
> This is already happening, Modelling tends to happen in Zbrush, UV tends
> to happen in UVlayout and you may only use Maya to do basic modelling and
> basic UV stuff.. although imperfect, that is easy to do in Houdini with
> today’s toolset, let alone H16 toolset.
>
>
>
> Rigging and Animation are the two parts of this pipeline Maya has a
> stronghold, but IMHO it is only a matter of time to see a shift in that
> area too.
>
>
>
> Is there a swing towards Houdini in this area? Or is it still an augmented
> option in a Maya/Max/Modo pipeline. That would be the interesting thing for
> me.
>
>
>
> I have been long advocating to use Houdini as the backbone of the pipeline
> to avoid software fragmentation and the enourmous amount of glue, support,
> plugins, hidden costs that such approach brings… Just list the number of
> applications you would use if you didn’t have Softimage by your side.
>
>
>
> Zbrush, Topogun, UVlayout, Marvelous Designer, Mari, Photoshop, Maya for
> Rig and Animation, Maya for Cloth sims, Arnold, Massive, Real flow… th

RE: Opinion gathering

[Graham Bell]

Zbrush for characters I can see, but for Hard Surface above something like 
Maya’s sudivs? I’m not quite sure.

And, whether anyone is prepared to admit it Maya’s tools have seen a big 
improvement, to a point where they reduced the need to even retopo in something 
like 3Dcoat or even UVlayout. 

 

Personally I’d put them above Max and even Softs. Soft’s weren’t bad by any 
means, but Maya’s improvements in this area have started to put it ahead in 
this area.

I’d put Modo as the closest competitor in this area now. 

 

I’m with you on a lot of everything else, but the problem that Houdini faces is 
the same as what we had with pushing Softimage/ICE. When faced with a studio 
that uses Maya/Max (for better or for worse), with a bunch of plugins/tools, 
unless faced with some a certain situation, they don’t really see a reason to 
switch.

They may like Houdini a lot, but they can do everything they need and more with 
what they have, so they see no reason to be burdened with the cost and upheaval 
of moving.

 

But who knows, I think the landscape has changed dramatically and is in many 
ways, still changing. I think the next 12-18months could be very interesting in 
terms of software out there.

 

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares
Sent: 19 February 2017 15:08
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Opinion gathering

 

 

On 19 Feb 2017, at 13:40, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com 
<mailto:bell...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’ 
modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D and 
Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.

 

This is already happening, Modelling tends to happen in Zbrush, UV tends to 
happen in UVlayout and you may only use Maya to do basic modelling and basic UV 
stuff.. although imperfect, that is easy to do in Houdini with today’s toolset, 
let alone H16 toolset.

 

Rigging and Animation are the two parts of this pipeline Maya has a stronghold, 
but IMHO it is only a matter of time to see a shift in that area too.





Is there a swing towards Houdini in this area? Or is it still an augmented 
option in a Maya/Max/Modo pipeline. That would be the interesting thing for me.

 

I have been long advocating to use Houdini as the backbone of the pipeline to 
avoid software fragmentation and the enourmous amount of glue, support, 
plugins, hidden costs that such approach brings… Just list the number of 
applications you would use if you didn’t have Softimage by your side.

 

Zbrush, Topogun, UVlayout, Marvelous Designer, Mari, Photoshop, Maya for Rig 
and Animation, Maya for Cloth sims, Arnold, Massive, Real flow… the list is 
insane!!!

 

I use this other approach;

 

Zbrush, Mari, Photoshop, Marvelous Designer and finally, Houdini for everything 
else.

 

Less glue, less going back and forth...

 

Plus let’s face it… an animator needs only very few tools and normally have the 
easiest transition in any pipeline to new packages. I can train an animator to 
do his job in Houdini in barely a day and in a week is pretty much as 
productive with Houdini as he is with Maya (and I have tested this in the past)

 

I had hoped to make the recent Houdini event but client deadlines intervened. I 
echo Andy’s comments though about the number of Soft users. For me Houdini is a 
no-brainer when looking for an ICE replacement, perhaps with some Fabric thrown 
in there for good measure.

 

Have a look at the screencast they did.. you will see why the excitement.

 

Interesting times ahead.

jb

 

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Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

> On 19 Feb 2017, at 13:40, Graham Bell  wrote:
> 
> I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’ 
> modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D and 
> Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.

This is already happening, Modelling tends to happen in Zbrush, UV tends to 
happen in UVlayout and you may only use Maya to do basic modelling and basic UV 
stuff.. although imperfect, that is easy to do in Houdini with today’s toolset, 
let alone H16 toolset.

Rigging and Animation are the two parts of this pipeline Maya has a stronghold, 
but IMHO it is only a matter of time to see a shift in that area too.

> Is there a swing towards Houdini in this area? Or is it still an augmented 
> option in a Maya/Max/Modo pipeline. That would be the interesting thing for 
> me.

I have been long advocating to use Houdini as the backbone of the pipeline to 
avoid software fragmentation and the enourmous amount of glue, support, 
plugins, hidden costs that such approach brings… Just list the number of 
applications you would use if you didn’t have Softimage by your side.

Zbrush, Topogun, UVlayout, Marvelous Designer, Mari, Photoshop, Maya for Rig 
and Animation, Maya for Cloth sims, Arnold, Massive, Real flow… the list is 
insane!!!

I use this other approach;

Zbrush, Mari, Photoshop, Marvelous Designer and finally, Houdini for everything 
else.

Less glue, less going back and forth...

Plus let’s face it… an animator needs only very few tools and normally have the 
easiest transition in any pipeline to new packages. I can train an animator to 
do his job in Houdini in barely a day and in a week is pretty much as 
productive with Houdini as he is with Maya (and I have tested this in the past)

> I had hoped to make the recent Houdini event but client deadlines intervened. 
> I echo Andy’s comments though about the number of Soft users. For me Houdini 
> is a no-brainer when looking for an ICE replacement, perhaps with some Fabric 
> thrown in there for good measure.

Have a look at the screencast they did.. you will see why the excitement.

Interesting times ahead.
jb

--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: Opinion gathering

[Tom Kleinenberg]

For the front end of the pipeline Zbrush is the de-facto digital maquette
package and a lot of senior modellers seem to be pushing it further along
the pipeline (blendshape creation, variation building, that sort of thing.
The retopo is still a problem but Pixologic's getting better at it and
there are alternatives like 3DCoat. Environment modelling is different
kettle of fish but Houdini's procedural approach has some definite
advantages there. I could certainly envisage a pipeline where Maya/Max is
cut out altogether if Houdini's animation is deemed up to snuff.

My day to day is Maya though. I must have been awful in a past-life.

On 19 February 2017 at 14:35, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’
>> modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D
>> and Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there a swing towards Houdini in this area? Or is it still an
>> augmented option in a Maya/Max/Modo pipeline. That would be the interesting
>> thing for me.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I think that SideFX have fine tuned Houdini so that artists coming from
> non procedural DCC's feel very comfortable with the native individual poly
> manipulation tools that it eases their path into the procedural way of
> doing things in Houdini. By it's very procedural nature, Houdini will never
> be the same as working with the destructive direct manipulation tools of
> Maya/Max/C4D/Modo/Lightwave or pre ICE XSI. But SideFX have learnt how to
> integrate the best of direct manipulation tool workflows, and has
> integrated them into a fully procedural application. It's an ongoing
> exercise - the animation and UV tools in particular lack the finesse of the
> best in XSI and Maya.
>
> But what SideFX team have shown most of all since the EOL announcement of
> XSI, is that they have an ability to listen and make positive changes based
> on that feedback. Houdini was always the obvious choice for XSI artists
> that embraced ICE, but I think it's also now in a position to appeal to
> those artists that never utilised ICE in XSI. That's why they've cut the
> cost of core in half to $1499. You can still get Indie for $199 a year if
> you're a freelancer but Core is a more obvious choice for creative
> businesses with $100k plus turnovers.
>
> On 19 February 2017 at 13:40, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’
>> modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D
>> and Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there a swing towards Houdini in this area? Or is it still an
>> augmented option in a Maya/Max/Modo pipeline. That would be the interesting
>> thing for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> I had hoped to make the recent Houdini event but client deadlines
>> intervened. I echo Andy’s comments though about the number of Soft users.
>> For me Houdini is a no-brainer when looking for an ICE replacement, perhaps
>> with some Fabric thrown in there for good measure.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding AD though, kinda hard to measure right now. I don’t hear many
>> positive vibes. More recent cuts and layoffs including Eddie Perberg, the
>> Max product manager. Even with my understanding it seems bizarre.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Jonathan Moore
>> *Sent:* 17 February 2017 22:27
>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <
>> softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: Opinion gathering
>>
>>
>>
>> It's not what you asked for but I've got pretty much all Windows builds
>> of Crate 2010 to 2017 in this archive.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://d.pr/TTWU.rar
>>
>>
>>
>> Not what you need now but it might come in handy another week. ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll ask around for a Linux build over the weekend if it can wait that
>> long.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 17 February 2017 at 22:11, Michael Amasio <michael.ama...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> After an intense amount of arguing I've settled on getting my laptop to
>> sit on the network with my soft license intact.  AD wouldn't budge.
>> That'll go to crap once we finalize our 2 step authentication for marvel.
>>
>> Clarisse's is like kakana

Re: Opinion gathering

[Jonathan Moore]

> I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’
> modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D
> and Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.
>
>
>
> Is there a swing towards Houdini in this area? Or is it still an augmented
> option in a Maya/Max/Modo pipeline. That would be the interesting thing for
> me.
>
>
>

I think that SideFX have fine tuned Houdini so that artists coming from non
procedural DCC's feel very comfortable with the native individual poly
manipulation tools that it eases their path into the procedural way of
doing things in Houdini. By it's very procedural nature, Houdini will never
be the same as working with the destructive direct manipulation tools of
Maya/Max/C4D/Modo/Lightwave or pre ICE XSI. But SideFX have learnt how to
integrate the best of direct manipulation tool workflows, and has
integrated them into a fully procedural application. It's an ongoing
exercise - the animation and UV tools in particular lack the finesse of the
best in XSI and Maya.

But what SideFX team have shown most of all since the EOL announcement of
XSI, is that they have an ability to listen and make positive changes based
on that feedback. Houdini was always the obvious choice for XSI artists
that embraced ICE, but I think it's also now in a position to appeal to
those artists that never utilised ICE in XSI. That's why they've cut the
cost of core in half to $1499. You can still get Indie for $199 a year if
you're a freelancer but Core is a more obvious choice for creative
businesses with $100k plus turnovers.

On 19 February 2017 at 13:40, Graham Bell <bell...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’
> modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D
> and Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.
>
>
>
> Is there a swing towards Houdini in this area? Or is it still an augmented
> option in a Maya/Max/Modo pipeline. That would be the interesting thing for
> me.
>
>
>
> I had hoped to make the recent Houdini event but client deadlines
> intervened. I echo Andy’s comments though about the number of Soft users.
> For me Houdini is a no-brainer when looking for an ICE replacement, perhaps
> with some Fabric thrown in there for good measure.
>
>
>
> Regarding AD though, kinda hard to measure right now. I don’t hear many
> positive vibes. More recent cuts and layoffs including Eddie Perberg, the
> Max product manager. Even with my understanding it seems bizarre.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
> listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Jonathan Moore
> *Sent:* 17 February 2017 22:27
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list <softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Opinion gathering
>
>
>
> It's not what you asked for but I've got pretty much all Windows builds of
> Crate 2010 to 2017 in this archive.
>
>
>
> https://d.pr/TTWU.rar
>
>
>
> Not what you need now but it might come in handy another week. ;)
>
>
>
> I'll ask around for a Linux build over the weekend if it can wait that
> long.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 17 February 2017 at 22:11, Michael Amasio <michael.ama...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> After an intense amount of arguing I've settled on getting my laptop to
> sit on the network with my soft license intact.  AD wouldn't budge.
> That'll go to crap once we finalize our 2 step authentication for marvel.
>
> Clarisse's is like kakana but better for most things.  It's the most
> backwards architecture I've seen.  But the team is great and they plop
> things in releases we need within a week or two.  We've got our aov's going
> now and that was about we needed.
> I know people looked at it as a layout tool, but I think that's really not
> worth the investment.  If you go with it it should be your renderer.
> They've talked about supporting the substance painter shaders which would
> be really nice.
>
> Their docs are a little weak and their naming is ass-backwards for all the
> api.  Still they're making that cpu sing.  I'm excited to see what happens
> when they get things dumping to the gpu.
>
> We're doing layout in unreal with lo-res geo.  Textures and shaders are an
> approximation of final look.  Hi res assets are pushed live to clarisse
> simultaneously.
> It's still getting on its feet, big snag is ue4 alembic readers on Linux.
>
> Anyone with exp in this area, give me a shout.
>
> Extra plug/extra apology (I can't actually post on this group) anyone have
> the exocortex crate compiled on Linux for Maya 2

RE: Opinion gathering

[Graham Bell]

I think the problem Houdini has is penetrating the more ‘traditional’ 
modelling, UV, and animation workflows. Maya/Max still dominate here. C4D and 
Modo are trying hard but the former still seem to rule the roost.

 

Is there a swing towards Houdini in this area? Or is it still an augmented 
option in a Maya/Max/Modo pipeline. That would be the interesting thing for me.

 

I had hoped to make the recent Houdini event but client deadlines intervened. I 
echo Andy’s comments though about the number of Soft users. For me Houdini is a 
no-brainer when looking for an ICE replacement, perhaps with some Fabric thrown 
in there for good measure.

 

Regarding AD though, kinda hard to measure right now. I don’t hear many 
positive vibes. More recent cuts and layoffs including Eddie Perberg, the Max 
product manager. Even with my understanding it seems bizarre.

 

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Moore
Sent: 17 February 2017 22:27
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
<softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Opinion gathering

 

It's not what you asked for but I've got pretty much all Windows builds of 
Crate 2010 to 2017 in this archive.

 

https://d.pr/TTWU.rar

 

Not what you need now but it might come in handy another week. ;)

 

I'll ask around for a Linux build over the weekend if it can wait that long.

 

 

 

On 17 February 2017 at 22:11, Michael Amasio <michael.ama...@gmail.com 
<mailto:michael.ama...@gmail.com> > wrote:

After an intense amount of arguing I've settled on getting my laptop to sit on 
the network with my soft license intact.  AD wouldn't budge.
That'll go to crap once we finalize our 2 step authentication for marvel.

Clarisse's is like kakana but better for most things.  It's the most backwards 
architecture I've seen.  But the team is great and they plop things in releases 
we need within a week or two.  We've got our aov's going now and that was about 
we needed.
I know people looked at it as a layout tool, but I think that's really not 
worth the investment.  If you go with it it should be your renderer.
They've talked about supporting the substance painter shaders which would be 
really nice. 

Their docs are a little weak and their naming is ass-backwards for all the api. 
 Still they're making that cpu sing.  I'm excited to see what happens when they 
get things dumping to the gpu.  

We're doing layout in unreal with lo-res geo.  Textures and shaders are an 
approximation of final look.  Hi res assets are pushed live to clarisse 
simultaneously.
It's still getting on its feet, big snag is ue4 alembic readers on Linux.

Anyone with exp in this area, give me a shout.

Extra plug/extra apology (I can't actually post on this group) anyone have the 
exocortex crate compiled on Linux for Maya 2017?

On Feb 17, 2017 1:50 PM, "Jonathan Moore" <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I don't have a huge amount of experience with Katana but I'd say they're very 
loosely similar. The big difference is that Clarisse at it's heart is a render 
engine crossed with a compositor and this in turn is connected to a scene 
description engine. You bring everything thing in as cache files to build your 
shot and because all assets are referenced in, it can handle poly counts in the 
billions with ease.

 

The really clever part is that you build and composite your shot within the 
viewport using the final shot renderer. It's an exceptionally artist focussed 
way of working and that's probably why it's gaining a strong affinity with 
environment artists. But that's too narrow a description.

 

I like that's been built from the ground up as a pipeline tool, so it's not 
weighed down with the baggage of a traditional DCC.

 

They have a very open PLE that you can explore at your leisure and the learning 
resources they've added recently are excellent. 

 

The team behind it include some old school XSI folk. And because they've gained 
a lot of traction in a relatively short space of time, there's a great vibe 
about the community. Considering it's a big pipeline grade tool, it luckily 
doesn't feature Foundry like pricing! :)

 

You should definitely check it out.

 

http://www.isotropix.com/clarisse

 

On 17 February 2017 at 21:08, Artur W <artur.w...@gmail.com 
<mailto:artur.w...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Is clarisse katana like application?

 

Artur

 

2017-02-17 21:23 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com 
<mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com> >:

I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly becoming 
my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the other day. 
Still running 90 fps like a champ.

 

Absolute agreement. I'm building somethin

Re: Opinion gathering

[Jonathan Moore]

It's not what you asked for but I've got pretty much all Windows builds of
Crate 2010 to 2017 in this archive.

https://d.pr/TTWU.rar

Not what you need now but it might come in handy another week. ;)

I'll ask around for a Linux build over the weekend if it can wait that long.



On 17 February 2017 at 22:11, Michael Amasio 
wrote:

> After an intense amount of arguing I've settled on getting my laptop to
> sit on the network with my soft license intact.  AD wouldn't budge.
> That'll go to crap once we finalize our 2 step authentication for marvel.
>
> Clarisse's is like kakana but better for most things.  It's the most
> backwards architecture I've seen.  But the team is great and they plop
> things in releases we need within a week or two.  We've got our aov's going
> now and that was about we needed.
> I know people looked at it as a layout tool, but I think that's really not
> worth the investment.  If you go with it it should be your renderer.
> They've talked about supporting the substance painter shaders which would
> be really nice.
>
> Their docs are a little weak and their naming is ass-backwards for all the
> api.  Still they're making that cpu sing.  I'm excited to see what happens
> when they get things dumping to the gpu.
>
> We're doing layout in unreal with lo-res geo.  Textures and shaders are an
> approximation of final look.  Hi res assets are pushed live to clarisse
> simultaneously.
> It's still getting on its feet, big snag is ue4 alembic readers on Linux.
>
> Anyone with exp in this area, give me a shout.
>
> Extra plug/extra apology (I can't actually post on this group) anyone have
> the exocortex crate compiled on Linux for Maya 2017?
> On Feb 17, 2017 1:50 PM, "Jonathan Moore" 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't have a huge amount of experience with Katana but I'd say they're
>> very loosely similar. The big difference is that Clarisse at it's heart is
>> a render engine crossed with a compositor and this in turn is connected to
>> a scene description engine. You bring everything thing in as cache files to
>> build your shot and because all assets are referenced in, it can handle
>> poly counts in the billions with ease.
>>
>> The really clever part is that you build and composite your shot within
>> the viewport using the final shot renderer. It's an exceptionally artist
>> focussed way of working and that's probably why it's gaining a strong
>> affinity with environment artists. But that's too narrow a description.
>>
>> I like that's been built from the ground up as a pipeline tool, so it's
>> not weighed down with the baggage of a traditional DCC.
>>
>> They have a very open PLE that you can explore at your leisure and the
>> learning resources they've added recently are excellent.
>>
>> The team behind it include some old school XSI folk. And because they've
>> gained a lot of traction in a relatively short space of time, there's a
>> great vibe about the community. Considering it's a big pipeline grade tool,
>> it luckily doesn't feature Foundry like pricing! :)
>>
>> You should definitely check it out.
>>
>> http://www.isotropix.com/clarisse
>>
>> On 17 February 2017 at 21:08, Artur W  wrote:
>>
>>> Is clarisse katana like application?
>>>
>>> Artur
>>>
>>> 2017-02-17 21:23 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Moore :
>>>
 I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly
> becoming my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
> I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the
> other day. Still running 90 fps like a champ.


 Absolute agreement. I'm building something right now in Clarisse - 120
 million poly's (Alembic and LWO's and just about to add some VDB's into the
 mix). Not only is the frame rate flying along but the total memory
 registered in Task Manager is a smidge over 900mb.

 Really love the way the whole viewport can be the actual render, rather
 than an OpenGL approximation. I think Clarisse and Houdini are a match made
 in heaven and the $999 price for freelancers is ace too. Dreaming of the
 day when we'll have GPU VRAM to cope with all that throughput. Something
 like Redshift inside Clarisse would keep me spinning. ;)

 On 17 February 2017 at 19:45, Tim Crowson  wrote:

> How'd that work out, Michael, asking for more Soft licenses?
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:19 AM Michael Amasio <
> michael.ama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There's a no shortage of high paying jobs for houdini fx artists in
>> Vancouver.
>> Most studios already have it integrated in their pipelines to some
>> degree.
>> Small studios who don't already use it might gripe about the cost,
>> but the big players lean on it heavily.
>> Most studios don't have more than one or 2 licenses for c4d.  And
>> that's for 300+ artists.

Re: Opinion gathering

[Michael Amasio]

After an intense amount of arguing I've settled on getting my laptop to sit
on the network with my soft license intact.  AD wouldn't budge.
That'll go to crap once we finalize our 2 step authentication for marvel.

Clarisse's is like kakana but better for most things.  It's the most
backwards architecture I've seen.  But the team is great and they plop
things in releases we need within a week or two.  We've got our aov's going
now and that was about we needed.
I know people looked at it as a layout tool, but I think that's really not
worth the investment.  If you go with it it should be your renderer.
They've talked about supporting the substance painter shaders which would
be really nice.

Their docs are a little weak and their naming is ass-backwards for all the
api.  Still they're making that cpu sing.  I'm excited to see what happens
when they get things dumping to the gpu.

We're doing layout in unreal with lo-res geo.  Textures and shaders are an
approximation of final look.  Hi res assets are pushed live to clarisse
simultaneously.
It's still getting on its feet, big snag is ue4 alembic readers on Linux.

Anyone with exp in this area, give me a shout.

Extra plug/extra apology (I can't actually post on this group) anyone have
the exocortex crate compiled on Linux for Maya 2017?
On Feb 17, 2017 1:50 PM, "Jonathan Moore"  wrote:

> I don't have a huge amount of experience with Katana but I'd say they're
> very loosely similar. The big difference is that Clarisse at it's heart is
> a render engine crossed with a compositor and this in turn is connected to
> a scene description engine. You bring everything thing in as cache files to
> build your shot and because all assets are referenced in, it can handle
> poly counts in the billions with ease.
>
> The really clever part is that you build and composite your shot within
> the viewport using the final shot renderer. It's an exceptionally artist
> focussed way of working and that's probably why it's gaining a strong
> affinity with environment artists. But that's too narrow a description.
>
> I like that's been built from the ground up as a pipeline tool, so it's
> not weighed down with the baggage of a traditional DCC.
>
> They have a very open PLE that you can explore at your leisure and the
> learning resources they've added recently are excellent.
>
> The team behind it include some old school XSI folk. And because they've
> gained a lot of traction in a relatively short space of time, there's a
> great vibe about the community. Considering it's a big pipeline grade tool,
> it luckily doesn't feature Foundry like pricing! :)
>
> You should definitely check it out.
>
> http://www.isotropix.com/clarisse
>
> On 17 February 2017 at 21:08, Artur W  wrote:
>
>> Is clarisse katana like application?
>>
>> Artur
>>
>> 2017-02-17 21:23 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Moore :
>>
>>> I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly
 becoming my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
 I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the other
 day. Still running 90 fps like a champ.
>>>
>>>
>>> Absolute agreement. I'm building something right now in Clarisse - 120
>>> million poly's (Alembic and LWO's and just about to add some VDB's into the
>>> mix). Not only is the frame rate flying along but the total memory
>>> registered in Task Manager is a smidge over 900mb.
>>>
>>> Really love the way the whole viewport can be the actual render, rather
>>> than an OpenGL approximation. I think Clarisse and Houdini are a match made
>>> in heaven and the $999 price for freelancers is ace too. Dreaming of the
>>> day when we'll have GPU VRAM to cope with all that throughput. Something
>>> like Redshift inside Clarisse would keep me spinning. ;)
>>>
>>> On 17 February 2017 at 19:45, Tim Crowson  wrote:
>>>
 How'd that work out, Michael, asking for more Soft licenses?

 On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:19 AM Michael Amasio <
 michael.ama...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There's a no shortage of high paying jobs for houdini fx artists in
> Vancouver.
> Most studios already have it integrated in their pipelines to some
> degree.
> Small studios who don't already use it might gripe about the cost, but
> the big players lean on it heavily.
> Most studios don't have more than one or 2 licenses for c4d.  And
> that's for 300+ artists.
> Modo has been nice but aside from modeling, it isn't heavily
> integrated into a lot of pipelines out here (call me out if I'm wrong)
>
> I'm on a dev team for a new pipeline in film.  We're really pushing a
> lot of real time work flow.
> Lots of layout and viewing happens in UE4.
>
> IMHO the real time rendering is going to start to take over in the
> next couple years.  Prerendered UE4 will pass for most TV quality 
> animation.

Re: Opinion gathering

[Jonathan Moore]

As to the speed of final frame quality, I'd say it's faster than Arnold but
not as fast as V-Ray.
The time saving is in the production of the shots. It's an exceptionally
fluid and creative way to work.

On 17 February 2017 at 21:24, Eugene Flormata  wrote:

> are other studios just using clarisse as look dev? or are they using it
> for final render?
> because redshift is just so fast for final no flicker renders, would my
> guess that clarisse is comparable to arnold in render time be appropriate
> if it was for final render?
>
>
>> 2017-02-17 21:23 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Moore :
>>
>>> I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly
 becoming my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
 I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the other
 day. Still running 90 fps like a champ.
>>>
>>>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
--
Softimage Mailing List.
To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
"unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

Re: Opinion gathering

[Jonathan Moore]

I don't have a huge amount of experience with Katana but I'd say they're
very loosely similar. The big difference is that Clarisse at it's heart is
a render engine crossed with a compositor and this in turn is connected to
a scene description engine. You bring everything thing in as cache files to
build your shot and because all assets are referenced in, it can handle
poly counts in the billions with ease.

The really clever part is that you build and composite your shot within the
viewport using the final shot renderer. It's an exceptionally artist
focussed way of working and that's probably why it's gaining a strong
affinity with environment artists. But that's too narrow a description.

I like that's been built from the ground up as a pipeline tool, so it's not
weighed down with the baggage of a traditional DCC.

They have a very open PLE that you can explore at your leisure and the
learning resources they've added recently are excellent.

The team behind it include some old school XSI folk. And because they've
gained a lot of traction in a relatively short space of time, there's a
great vibe about the community. Considering it's a big pipeline grade tool,
it luckily doesn't feature Foundry like pricing! :)

You should definitely check it out.

http://www.isotropix.com/clarisse

On 17 February 2017 at 21:08, Artur W  wrote:

> Is clarisse katana like application?
>
> Artur
>
> 2017-02-17 21:23 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Moore :
>
>> I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly
>>> becoming my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
>>> I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the other
>>> day. Still running 90 fps like a champ.
>>
>>
>> Absolute agreement. I'm building something right now in Clarisse - 120
>> million poly's (Alembic and LWO's and just about to add some VDB's into the
>> mix). Not only is the frame rate flying along but the total memory
>> registered in Task Manager is a smidge over 900mb.
>>
>> Really love the way the whole viewport can be the actual render, rather
>> than an OpenGL approximation. I think Clarisse and Houdini are a match made
>> in heaven and the $999 price for freelancers is ace too. Dreaming of the
>> day when we'll have GPU VRAM to cope with all that throughput. Something
>> like Redshift inside Clarisse would keep me spinning. ;)
>>
>> On 17 February 2017 at 19:45, Tim Crowson  wrote:
>>
>>> How'd that work out, Michael, asking for more Soft licenses?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:19 AM Michael Amasio <
>>> michael.ama...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 There's a no shortage of high paying jobs for houdini fx artists in
 Vancouver.
 Most studios already have it integrated in their pipelines to some
 degree.
 Small studios who don't already use it might gripe about the cost, but
 the big players lean on it heavily.
 Most studios don't have more than one or 2 licenses for c4d.  And
 that's for 300+ artists.
 Modo has been nice but aside from modeling, it isn't heavily integrated
 into a lot of pipelines out here (call me out if I'm wrong)

 I'm on a dev team for a new pipeline in film.  We're really pushing a
 lot of real time work flow.
 Lots of layout and viewing happens in UE4.

 IMHO the real time rendering is going to start to take over in the next
 couple years.  Prerendered UE4 will pass for most TV quality animation.
 I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly
 becoming my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
 I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the other
 day. Still running 90 fps like a champ.
 Maya is still too popular for animation (though soft is still king for
 animation), so it never hurts to know a bit.  I find it easy to write
 simple tools in Maya.  Though I'm literally throwing a block party the day
 it dies.

 Testing Ziva dynamics right now too.  It's a dream within a dream.

 Still hanging on for fabric to really come into its own.

 Sidenote: ( I hope this isn't hijacking,  it's related ) I used to run
 crowds with ice.  Massive before that.  What's the beat on crowds now? I'm
 about to run golaem though it's paces but I'm a little rusty on the crowd
 scene.

 All that aside...
 I just spent 2 days on the phone with autodesk trying to get them to
 take my damn money and sell me more soft licenses.
 On Feb 17, 2017 8:19 AM, "Andy Nicholas"  wrote:

 Absolutely. The future feels bright :)

 Great to see so many Softimage guys at the Houdini launch too!!


 On 17/02/2017 15:15, Oliver Weingarten wrote:
 > Am 17.02.2017 um 12:57 schrieb Jordi Bares:
 >> I know the feeling… discovery… what an wonderful feeling right?
 >>
 >>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 11:53, 

Re: Opinion gathering

[Artur W]

Is clarisse katana like application?

Artur

2017-02-17 21:23 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Moore :

> I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly
>> becoming my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
>> I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the other
>> day. Still running 90 fps like a champ.
>
>
> Absolute agreement. I'm building something right now in Clarisse - 120
> million poly's (Alembic and LWO's and just about to add some VDB's into the
> mix). Not only is the frame rate flying along but the total memory
> registered in Task Manager is a smidge over 900mb.
>
> Really love the way the whole viewport can be the actual render, rather
> than an OpenGL approximation. I think Clarisse and Houdini are a match made
> in heaven and the $999 price for freelancers is ace too. Dreaming of the
> day when we'll have GPU VRAM to cope with all that throughput. Something
> like Redshift inside Clarisse would keep me spinning. ;)
>
> On 17 February 2017 at 19:45, Tim Crowson  wrote:
>
>> How'd that work out, Michael, asking for more Soft licenses?
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:19 AM Michael Amasio 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There's a no shortage of high paying jobs for houdini fx artists in
>>> Vancouver.
>>> Most studios already have it integrated in their pipelines to some
>>> degree.
>>> Small studios who don't already use it might gripe about the cost, but
>>> the big players lean on it heavily.
>>> Most studios don't have more than one or 2 licenses for c4d.  And that's
>>> for 300+ artists.
>>> Modo has been nice but aside from modeling, it isn't heavily integrated
>>> into a lot of pipelines out here (call me out if I'm wrong)
>>>
>>> I'm on a dev team for a new pipeline in film.  We're really pushing a
>>> lot of real time work flow.
>>> Lots of layout and viewing happens in UE4.
>>>
>>> IMHO the real time rendering is going to start to take over in the next
>>> couple years.  Prerendered UE4 will pass for most TV quality animation.
>>> I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly
>>> becoming my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
>>> I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the other
>>> day. Still running 90 fps like a champ.
>>> Maya is still too popular for animation (though soft is still king for
>>> animation), so it never hurts to know a bit.  I find it easy to write
>>> simple tools in Maya.  Though I'm literally throwing a block party the day
>>> it dies.
>>>
>>> Testing Ziva dynamics right now too.  It's a dream within a dream.
>>>
>>> Still hanging on for fabric to really come into its own.
>>>
>>> Sidenote: ( I hope this isn't hijacking,  it's related ) I used to run
>>> crowds with ice.  Massive before that.  What's the beat on crowds now? I'm
>>> about to run golaem though it's paces but I'm a little rusty on the crowd
>>> scene.
>>>
>>> All that aside...
>>> I just spent 2 days on the phone with autodesk trying to get them to
>>> take my damn money and sell me more soft licenses.
>>> On Feb 17, 2017 8:19 AM, "Andy Nicholas"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Absolutely. The future feels bright :)
>>>
>>> Great to see so many Softimage guys at the Houdini launch too!!
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17/02/2017 15:15, Oliver Weingarten wrote:
>>> > Am 17.02.2017 um 12:57 schrieb Jordi Bares:
>>> >> I know the feeling… discovery… what an wonderful feeling right?
>>> >>
>>> >>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 11:53, Artur W  wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Houdini is positively overwhelming. I move around quite comfortably
>>> and yet I feel it is still first base stage.
>>> > Yes..and it feels like evolving with Houdini instead of taking steps
>>> > backward with AD!
>>> > --
>>> > Softimage Mailing List.
>>> > To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jonathan Moore]

>
> I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly
> becoming my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
> I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the other
> day. Still running 90 fps like a champ.


Absolute agreement. I'm building something right now in Clarisse - 120
million poly's (Alembic and LWO's and just about to add some VDB's into the
mix). Not only is the frame rate flying along but the total memory
registered in Task Manager is a smidge over 900mb.

Really love the way the whole viewport can be the actual render, rather
than an OpenGL approximation. I think Clarisse and Houdini are a match made
in heaven and the $999 price for freelancers is ace too. Dreaming of the
day when we'll have GPU VRAM to cope with all that throughput. Something
like Redshift inside Clarisse would keep me spinning. ;)

On 17 February 2017 at 19:45, Tim Crowson  wrote:

> How'd that work out, Michael, asking for more Soft licenses?
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:19 AM Michael Amasio 
> wrote:
>
>> There's a no shortage of high paying jobs for houdini fx artists in
>> Vancouver.
>> Most studios already have it integrated in their pipelines to some degree.
>> Small studios who don't already use it might gripe about the cost, but
>> the big players lean on it heavily.
>> Most studios don't have more than one or 2 licenses for c4d.  And that's
>> for 300+ artists.
>> Modo has been nice but aside from modeling, it isn't heavily integrated
>> into a lot of pipelines out here (call me out if I'm wrong)
>>
>> I'm on a dev team for a new pipeline in film.  We're really pushing a lot
>> of real time work flow.
>> Lots of layout and viewing happens in UE4.
>>
>> IMHO the real time rendering is going to start to take over in the next
>> couple years.  Prerendered UE4 will pass for most TV quality animation.
>> I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly
>> becoming my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
>> I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the other
>> day. Still running 90 fps like a champ.
>> Maya is still too popular for animation (though soft is still king for
>> animation), so it never hurts to know a bit.  I find it easy to write
>> simple tools in Maya.  Though I'm literally throwing a block party the day
>> it dies.
>>
>> Testing Ziva dynamics right now too.  It's a dream within a dream.
>>
>> Still hanging on for fabric to really come into its own.
>>
>> Sidenote: ( I hope this isn't hijacking,  it's related ) I used to run
>> crowds with ice.  Massive before that.  What's the beat on crowds now? I'm
>> about to run golaem though it's paces but I'm a little rusty on the crowd
>> scene.
>>
>> All that aside...
>> I just spent 2 days on the phone with autodesk trying to get them to take
>> my damn money and sell me more soft licenses.
>> On Feb 17, 2017 8:19 AM, "Andy Nicholas"  wrote:
>>
>> Absolutely. The future feels bright :)
>>
>> Great to see so many Softimage guys at the Houdini launch too!!
>>
>>
>> On 17/02/2017 15:15, Oliver Weingarten wrote:
>> > Am 17.02.2017 um 12:57 schrieb Jordi Bares:
>> >> I know the feeling… discovery… what an wonderful feeling right?
>> >>
>> >>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 11:53, Artur W  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Houdini is positively overwhelming. I move around quite comfortably
>> and yet I feel it is still first base stage.
>> > Yes..and it feels like evolving with Houdini instead of taking steps
>> > backward with AD!
>> > --
>> > Softimage Mailing List.
>> > To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Tim Crowson]

How'd that work out, Michael, asking for more Soft licenses?
On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:19 AM Michael Amasio 
wrote:

> There's a no shortage of high paying jobs for houdini fx artists in
> Vancouver.
> Most studios already have it integrated in their pipelines to some degree.
> Small studios who don't already use it might gripe about the cost, but the
> big players lean on it heavily.
> Most studios don't have more than one or 2 licenses for c4d.  And that's
> for 300+ artists.
> Modo has been nice but aside from modeling, it isn't heavily integrated
> into a lot of pipelines out here (call me out if I'm wrong)
>
> I'm on a dev team for a new pipeline in film.  We're really pushing a lot
> of real time work flow.
> Lots of layout and viewing happens in UE4.
>
> IMHO the real time rendering is going to start to take over in the next
> couple years.  Prerendered UE4 will pass for most TV quality animation.
> I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly
> becoming my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
> I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the other
> day. Still running 90 fps like a champ.
> Maya is still too popular for animation (though soft is still king for
> animation), so it never hurts to know a bit.  I find it easy to write
> simple tools in Maya.  Though I'm literally throwing a block party the day
> it dies.
>
> Testing Ziva dynamics right now too.  It's a dream within a dream.
>
> Still hanging on for fabric to really come into its own.
>
> Sidenote: ( I hope this isn't hijacking,  it's related ) I used to run
> crowds with ice.  Massive before that.  What's the beat on crowds now? I'm
> about to run golaem though it's paces but I'm a little rusty on the crowd
> scene.
>
> All that aside...
> I just spent 2 days on the phone with autodesk trying to get them to take
> my damn money and sell me more soft licenses.
> On Feb 17, 2017 8:19 AM, "Andy Nicholas"  wrote:
>
> Absolutely. The future feels bright :)
>
> Great to see so many Softimage guys at the Houdini launch too!!
>
>
> On 17/02/2017 15:15, Oliver Weingarten wrote:
> > Am 17.02.2017 um 12:57 schrieb Jordi Bares:
> >> I know the feeling… discovery… what an wonderful feeling right?
> >>
> >>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 11:53, Artur W  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Houdini is positively overwhelming. I move around quite comfortably
> and yet I feel it is still first base stage.
> > Yes..and it feels like evolving with Houdini instead of taking steps
> > backward with AD!
> > --
> > Softimage Mailing List.
> > To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
> --
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
--
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Michael Amasio]

There's a no shortage of high paying jobs for houdini fx artists in
Vancouver.
Most studios already have it integrated in their pipelines to some degree.
Small studios who don't already use it might gripe about the cost, but the
big players lean on it heavily.
Most studios don't have more than one or 2 licenses for c4d.  And that's
for 300+ artists.
Modo has been nice but aside from modeling, it isn't heavily integrated
into a lot of pipelines out here (call me out if I'm wrong)

I'm on a dev team for a new pipeline in film.  We're really pushing a lot
of real time work flow.
Lots of layout and viewing happens in UE4.

IMHO the real time rendering is going to start to take over in the next
couple years.  Prerendered UE4 will pass for most TV quality animation.
I'm using clarisse's new renderer and it's been a dream.  It's quickly
becoming my favorite over redshift for shear polygon muscle.
I had 180 billion polygons (no proxy) in a scene on my laptop the other
day. Still running 90 fps like a champ.
Maya is still too popular for animation (though soft is still king for
animation), so it never hurts to know a bit.  I find it easy to write
simple tools in Maya.  Though I'm literally throwing a block party the day
it dies.

Testing Ziva dynamics right now too.  It's a dream within a dream.

Still hanging on for fabric to really come into its own.

Sidenote: ( I hope this isn't hijacking,  it's related ) I used to run
crowds with ice.  Massive before that.  What's the beat on crowds now? I'm
about to run golaem though it's paces but I'm a little rusty on the crowd
scene.

All that aside...
I just spent 2 days on the phone with autodesk trying to get them to take
my damn money and sell me more soft licenses.
On Feb 17, 2017 8:19 AM, "Andy Nicholas"  wrote:

> Absolutely. The future feels bright :)
>
> Great to see so many Softimage guys at the Houdini launch too!!
>
>
> On 17/02/2017 15:15, Oliver Weingarten wrote:
> > Am 17.02.2017 um 12:57 schrieb Jordi Bares:
> >> I know the feeling… discovery… what an wonderful feeling right?
> >>
> >>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 11:53, Artur W  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Houdini is positively overwhelming. I move around quite comfortably
> and yet I feel it is still first base stage.
> > Yes..and it feels like evolving with Houdini instead of taking steps
> > backward with AD!
> > --
> > Softimage Mailing List.
> > To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
--
Softimage Mailing List.
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Andy Nicholas]

Absolutely. The future feels bright :)

Great to see so many Softimage guys at the Houdini launch too!!


On 17/02/2017 15:15, Oliver Weingarten wrote:
> Am 17.02.2017 um 12:57 schrieb Jordi Bares:
>> I know the feeling… discovery… what an wonderful feeling right?
>>
>>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 11:53, Artur W  wrote:
>>>
>>> Houdini is positively overwhelming. I move around quite comfortably and yet 
>>> I feel it is still first base stage.
> Yes..and it feels like evolving with Houdini instead of taking steps
> backward with AD!
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

--
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Oliver Weingarten]

Am 17.02.2017 um 12:57 schrieb Jordi Bares:
> I know the feeling… discovery… what an wonderful feeling right?
>
>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 11:53, Artur W  wrote:
>>
>> Houdini is positively overwhelming. I move around quite comfortably and yet 
>> I feel it is still first base stage.
>
Yes..and it feels like evolving with Houdini instead of taking steps 
backward with AD!
--
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

I know the feeling… discovery… what an wonderful feeling right?

> On 17 Feb 2017, at 11:53, Artur W  wrote:
> 
> Houdini is positively overwhelming. I move around quite comfortably and yet I 
> feel it is still first base stage.

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Re: Opinion gathering

[Artur W]

Houdini is positively overwhelming. I move around quite comfortably and yet
I feel it is still first base stage.

2017-02-17 10:35 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com>:

> You certainly can do it but it is more cumbersome, I have done it before
> and wasn’t complicated but it wasn’t as slick as Softimage.
>
> The way you would do it (roughly speaking is)
>
> - Bake your animation curves onto a clip files (yep, you can do that)
> easily
>
> - Using CHOPs (channel operators) you will load those clips and manipulate
> them to build all your blending, loops, etc…
>
> - After all the manipulations you will export those channels back to the
> rig (just using the Export node)
>
>
> BUT,
>
> On the way you gain proper signal processing (which will allow you to do
> things you can’t even dream of doing in Softimage), you will be able to do
> advanced OS piping (imagine one houdini session running some computations
> and piping that data over the network to feed your animation operations),
> you will also be able to connect devices (hello MIDI) effortlessly, and
> many many other things.
>
> All in all, you will loose things, you will gain things… in my particular
> case I rather move forward rather than stay on an abandoned ship in the
> middle of the Pacific, so I am happy to trade X for Y and carry on.
>
> Hope it helps
> jb
>
>
>
>
> On 17 Feb 2017, at 06:02, phil harbath <phil.harb...@jamination.com>
> wrote:
>
> so there really is no (easy) way of creating clips of animation based on a
> character set (or whatever) and loop them and blend them into other clips,
> I hate to describe it that way since I am kind of repeating my question
> about if houdini can emulate the mixer in Softimage (and perhaps sharing
> clips among like models).
>
> thanks
>
> *From:* Jordi Bares
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:15 PM
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.https://groups.google.
> com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
> *Subject:* Re: Opinion gathering
>
> Below
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 16 Feb 2017, at 18:47, phil harbath <phil.harb...@jamination.com>
> wrote:
>
> I am very curious on how people feel about houdini’s character animation
> tools.  I am reluctant to move on from Softimage until there is something
> out there that is at least close to being on par with it.
>
>
> It is pretty similar and although you will miss a few things (like the
> mixer) you will get others (like muscles, advanced rigging, chops,...)
>
> Don't worry and give it a go
>
> Specifically the Shape Manager, non-destructive weights, and the animation
> mixer really help me get the job done, and when it comes to the negative
> things I hear about Maya it has kept me from making the leap in that
> direction even though I theoretically own 2 copies,  I really am hoping
> that Houdini is close because I really only want to make a change once.
>
>
> Shape management you do it out of the box through nodal workflow. Not as
> slick but more powerful.
>
> Non-destructive is the name of the game.
>
> No mixer but you have animation layers (although a bit wonky)
>
> Rigging is way way better in Houdini
>
> Hope it helps
>
> Jb
>
>
> thanks
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
>
> --
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
> --
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> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
>
>
> --
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> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

You certainly can do it but it is more cumbersome, I have done it before and 
wasn’t complicated but it wasn’t as slick as Softimage.

The way you would do it (roughly speaking is)

- Bake your animation curves onto a clip files (yep, you can do that) 
easily

- Using CHOPs (channel operators) you will load those clips and 
manipulate them to build all your blending, loops, etc… 

- After all the manipulations you will export those channels back to 
the rig (just using the Export node)


BUT,

On the way you gain proper signal processing (which will allow you to do things 
you can’t even dream of doing in Softimage), you will be able to do advanced OS 
piping (imagine one houdini session running some computations and piping that 
data over the network to feed your animation operations), you will also be able 
to connect devices (hello MIDI) effortlessly, and many many other things.

All in all, you will loose things, you will gain things… in my particular case 
I rather move forward rather than stay on an abandoned ship in the middle of 
the Pacific, so I am happy to trade X for Y and carry on.

Hope it helps
jb




> On 17 Feb 2017, at 06:02, phil harbath <phil.harb...@jamination.com> wrote:
> 
> so there really is no (easy) way of creating clips of animation based on a 
> character set (or whatever) and loop them and blend them into other clips, I 
> hate to describe it that way since I am kind of repeating my question about 
> if houdini can emulate the mixer in Softimage (and perhaps sharing clips 
> among like models).
>  
> thanks
>  
> From: Jordi Bares <>
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:15 PM
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
> List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <>
> Subject: Re: Opinion gathering
>  
> Below 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 16 Feb 2017, at 18:47, phil harbath <phil.harb...@jamination.com <>> wrote:
> 
>> I am very curious on how people feel about houdini’s character animation 
>> tools.  I am reluctant to move on from Softimage until there is something 
>> out there that is at least close to being on par with it. 
>  
> It is pretty similar and although you will miss a few things (like the mixer) 
> you will get others (like muscles, advanced rigging, chops,...)
>  
> Don't worry and give it a go
> 
>> Specifically the Shape Manager, non-destructive weights, and the animation 
>> mixer really help me get the job done, and when it comes to the negative 
>> things I hear about Maya it has kept me from making the leap in that 
>> direction even though I theoretically own 2 copies,  I really am hoping that 
>> Houdini is close because I really only want to make a change once.
>  
> Shape management you do it out of the box through nodal workflow. Not as 
> slick but more powerful.
>  
> Non-destructive is the name of the game.
>  
> No mixer but you have animation layers (although a bit wonky)
>  
> Rigging is way way better in Houdini
>  
> Hope it helps
>  
> Jb
> 
>>  
>> thanks
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Gerbrand Nel]

I'm waiting for h16 before I try character work, but shape animation in 
Houdini is an absolute pleasure!
You can use the shape sop, but I mostly use an attribute vop to blend 
shapes.
It is similar to driving shapes through ICE, so you have all the control 
you ever need.

G
On 2017/02/16 8:47 PM, phil harbath wrote:
I am very curious on how people feel about houdini’s character 
animation tools.  I am reluctant to move on from Softimage until there 
is something out there that is at least close to being on par with 
it.  Specifically the Shape Manager, non-destructive weights, and the 
animation mixer really help me get the job done, and when it comes to 
the negative things I hear about Maya it has kept me from making the 
leap in that direction even though I theoretically own 2 copies,  I 
really am hoping that Houdini is close because I really only want to 
make a change once.

thanks


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Re: Opinion gathering

[phil harbath]

so there really is no (easy) way of creating clips of animation based on a 
character set (or whatever) and loop them and blend them into other clips, I 
hate to describe it that way since I am kind of repeating my question about if 
houdini can emulate the mixer in Softimage (and perhaps sharing clips among 
like models).

thanks

From: Jordi Bares 
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 2:15 PM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing 
List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
Subject: Re: Opinion gathering

Below 

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Feb 2017, at 18:47, phil harbath <phil.harb...@jamination.com> wrote:


  I am very curious on how people feel about houdini’s character animation 
tools.  I am reluctant to move on from Softimage until there is something out 
there that is at least close to being on par with it.  

It is pretty similar and although you will miss a few things (like the mixer) 
you will get others (like muscles, advanced rigging, chops,...)

Don't worry and give it a go


  Specifically the Shape Manager, non-destructive weights, and the animation 
mixer really help me get the job done, and when it comes to the negative things 
I hear about Maya it has kept me from making the leap in that direction even 
though I theoretically own 2 copies,  I really am hoping that Houdini is close 
because I really only want to make a change once.

Shape management you do it out of the box through nodal workflow. Not as slick 
but more powerful.

Non-destructive is the name of the game.

No mixer but you have animation layers (although a bit wonky)

Rigging is way way better in Houdini

Hope it helps 

Jb


  thanks
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jonathan Moore]

Well Tim, I was attempting to be diplomatic thinking you'd say I was being
a tad harsh.

Glad to know we're in a similar place with Modo.

My heart for Modo hasn't completely frozen over as I still have warmth for
some good old fashioned vertex pushing in Modo, but that's as far as it
goes these days. Much as I love Houdini there are occasions when I need to
leave proceduralism at the back gate.  :)

On 17 February 2017 at 03:52, Pierre Schiller <
activemotionpictu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I got into modo, just because MAX licencenses were round 4k $. So I tried
> it on the company I was working with at that time. I went trough a solid
> -day and night even weekends- month watching Modo tutorials (without
> installing the demo) just to get my mindset around what it did. 30 days
> later I decided I was ready (Pathway: Modeling, Shading, Baking, Sculpting,
> Schematics, Render Channels, Channel Haul, Rigging, Hair, Particles,
> constraints) so I took it for a spin on a couple of projects, it delivered:
> great lighting, rendering was fast, stable except for high poly count
> assets.. But Animation was (still is?) a pain. Playback was sluggish even
> with a brand new Quadro 4000 (new at the time) but I liked it because the
> compo team used Nuke and we never suffered troubles for color space or
> naming channels...I left the company and Modo as well. Brief experience.
>
> I was watching a couple of HU videos, they all say: "you want to get into
> the game, you need to learn how to code". So I guess this is a pretty nifty
> time to ask "Where do I enroll to learn HU at a TD level?". I need to get
> my head into coding. Where do I start? I know there should be graphical
> math in the program - somewhere- as well as specific function driven
> formulas.
>
> I thinking (at the back of my mind) if I don´t get to know those things,
> I´ll just be a HU ocean operator :( (at most).
> So if anyone could help me out with some pointersI´d deeply thank them.
>
> I was at the top of the mountain with ICE. Took me 7 years to do so. Then
> EOL.
> I don´t want that with HU math.
>
> Thanks.
>
> :D
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 9:35 PM, Tim Crowson  wrote:
>
>> Honestly I can't even say "come back in 3 years." That's basically what I
>> said 3 years ago. If it was still Luxology and not The Foundry, then maybe.
>> But at this point things are dragging on and getting a bit long in the
>> tooth. I don't want to go ranting. All I can say is I still can't recommend
>> Modo as a production backbone app with the kinds of productions I know are
>> done by folks here.
>>
>> -Tim
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 5:47 PM Jonathan Moore 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I (alongside Tim Crowson from this list) have been a long term beta
>> tester for Modo, so I'll shoot from the hip here. I think Tim shares many
>> of my own thoughts and impressions and I'm sure he'll pipe in if there's
>> any aspects he disagrees with.
>>
>> First the good part, Modo remains as it's ever been the best direct
>> modelling package on earth! A mighty claim but I think it's well deserved.
>> Only recently the team at ILM used Modo for all of their kit-bashing on
>> Star Wars 'Rogue One'. And to build on it's strengths as a direct modeller,
>> Foundry moved to an incremental development strategy for the 10 series and
>> Modo has now managed to remedy that equally deserved reputation of being
>> the most unstable DCC money can buy. They're looking to carry on with this
>> incremental development approach going forward to help ensure big new
>> features aren't partnered with a stability nosedive.
>>
>> Now comes the downside, once you go past Modo's core strengths as an
>> asset creation tool due to it's great modelling texturing and rendering
>> workflows (once you submit to the shader tree approach!), it barely
>> scratches the surface of what's required for a pipeline animation toolset.
>> Now that stability has been fixed, animation and solid pipeline credentials
>> are the next target. There's so much to be remedied here it's going to be a
>> number of years before it's even ready for consideration.
>>
>> If you can afford the luxury of using Modo strictly for its asset
>> creation strengths, it's a great weapon to have in your armoury. If you're
>> looking for an XSI replacement, come back in three years.
>>
>> On 16 February 2017 at 21:15, Eugene Flormata 
>> wrote:
>>
>> for people who transitioned to modo
>> how's the stability in that program? I bought modo indie on steam when it
>> was on sale with the idea to learn it on the side,
>> but I barely got to use it. was still getting used to maya which i use at
>> work. which although I like the tools. everything like explode for reasons
>> I couldn't figure out.
>>
>> my plan is to jump on the houdini wagon come the new apprenctice, then
>> jump on indie and learn that till I'm comfortable enough to get work to buy
>> full licenses.
>> I hope it's 

Re: Opinion gathering

[Eugene Flormata]

thanks a lot for the input guys,

anyone got stability input on C4D? I work at a primarily motion graphics
company.
we just moved to maya since it was easy to shift licenses.

I just really like the ideas behind houdini
all aboard the houdini train, please don't crash..




On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Tim Crowson  wrote:

> Honestly I can't even say "come back in 3 years." That's basically what I
> said 3 years ago. If it was still Luxology and not The Foundry, then maybe.
> But at this point things are dragging on and getting a bit long in the
> tooth. I don't want to go ranting. All I can say is I still can't recommend
> Modo as a production backbone app with the kinds of productions I know are
> done by folks here.
>
> -Tim
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 5:47 PM Jonathan Moore 
> wrote:
>
> I (alongside Tim Crowson from this list) have been a long term beta tester
> for Modo, so I'll shoot from the hip here. I think Tim shares many of my
> own thoughts and impressions and I'm sure he'll pipe in if there's any
> aspects he disagrees with.
>
> First the good part, Modo remains as it's ever been the best direct
> modelling package on earth! A mighty claim but I think it's well deserved.
> Only recently the team at ILM used Modo for all of their kit-bashing on
> Star Wars 'Rogue One'. And to build on it's strengths as a direct modeller,
> Foundry moved to an incremental development strategy for the 10 series and
> Modo has now managed to remedy that equally deserved reputation of being
> the most unstable DCC money can buy. They're looking to carry on with this
> incremental development approach going forward to help ensure big new
> features aren't partnered with a stability nosedive.
>
> Now comes the downside, once you go past Modo's core strengths as an asset
> creation tool due to it's great modelling texturing and rendering workflows
> (once you submit to the shader tree approach!), it barely scratches the
> surface of what's required for a pipeline animation toolset. Now that
> stability has been fixed, animation and solid pipeline credentials are the
> next target. There's so much to be remedied here it's going to be a number
> of years before it's even ready for consideration.
>
> If you can afford the luxury of using Modo strictly for its asset creation
> strengths, it's a great weapon to have in your armoury. If you're looking
> for an XSI replacement, come back in three years.
>
>
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Pierre Schiller]

I got into modo, just because MAX licencenses were round 4k $. So I tried
it on the company I was working with at that time. I went trough a solid
-day and night even weekends- month watching Modo tutorials (without
installing the demo) just to get my mindset around what it did. 30 days
later I decided I was ready (Pathway: Modeling, Shading, Baking, Sculpting,
Schematics, Render Channels, Channel Haul, Rigging, Hair, Particles,
constraints) so I took it for a spin on a couple of projects, it delivered:
great lighting, rendering was fast, stable except for high poly count
assets.. But Animation was (still is?) a pain. Playback was sluggish even
with a brand new Quadro 4000 (new at the time) but I liked it because the
compo team used Nuke and we never suffered troubles for color space or
naming channels...I left the company and Modo as well. Brief experience.

I was watching a couple of HU videos, they all say: "you want to get into
the game, you need to learn how to code". So I guess this is a pretty nifty
time to ask "Where do I enroll to learn HU at a TD level?". I need to get
my head into coding. Where do I start? I know there should be graphical
math in the program - somewhere- as well as specific function driven
formulas.

I thinking (at the back of my mind) if I don´t get to know those things,
I´ll just be a HU ocean operator :( (at most).
So if anyone could help me out with some pointersI´d deeply thank them.

I was at the top of the mountain with ICE. Took me 7 years to do so. Then
EOL.
I don´t want that with HU math.

Thanks.

:D


On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 9:35 PM, Tim Crowson  wrote:

> Honestly I can't even say "come back in 3 years." That's basically what I
> said 3 years ago. If it was still Luxology and not The Foundry, then maybe.
> But at this point things are dragging on and getting a bit long in the
> tooth. I don't want to go ranting. All I can say is I still can't recommend
> Modo as a production backbone app with the kinds of productions I know are
> done by folks here.
>
> -Tim
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 5:47 PM Jonathan Moore 
> wrote:
>
> I (alongside Tim Crowson from this list) have been a long term beta tester
> for Modo, so I'll shoot from the hip here. I think Tim shares many of my
> own thoughts and impressions and I'm sure he'll pipe in if there's any
> aspects he disagrees with.
>
> First the good part, Modo remains as it's ever been the best direct
> modelling package on earth! A mighty claim but I think it's well deserved.
> Only recently the team at ILM used Modo for all of their kit-bashing on
> Star Wars 'Rogue One'. And to build on it's strengths as a direct modeller,
> Foundry moved to an incremental development strategy for the 10 series and
> Modo has now managed to remedy that equally deserved reputation of being
> the most unstable DCC money can buy. They're looking to carry on with this
> incremental development approach going forward to help ensure big new
> features aren't partnered with a stability nosedive.
>
> Now comes the downside, once you go past Modo's core strengths as an asset
> creation tool due to it's great modelling texturing and rendering workflows
> (once you submit to the shader tree approach!), it barely scratches the
> surface of what's required for a pipeline animation toolset. Now that
> stability has been fixed, animation and solid pipeline credentials are the
> next target. There's so much to be remedied here it's going to be a number
> of years before it's even ready for consideration.
>
> If you can afford the luxury of using Modo strictly for its asset creation
> strengths, it's a great weapon to have in your armoury. If you're looking
> for an XSI replacement, come back in three years.
>
> On 16 February 2017 at 21:15, Eugene Flormata  wrote:
>
> for people who transitioned to modo
> how's the stability in that program? I bought modo indie on steam when it
> was on sale with the idea to learn it on the side,
> but I barely got to use it. was still getting used to maya which i use at
> work. which although I like the tools. everything like explode for reasons
> I couldn't figure out.
>
> my plan is to jump on the houdini wagon come the new apprenctice, then
> jump on indie and learn that till I'm comfortable enough to get work to buy
> full licenses.
> I hope it's stable
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Jordi Bares 
> wrote:
>
> Below
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 16 Feb 2017, at 18:47, phil harbath 
> wrote:
>
> I am very curious on how people feel about houdini’s character animation
> tools.  I am reluctant to move on from Softimage until there is something
> out there that is at least close to being on par with it.
>
>
> It is pretty similar and although you will miss a few things (like the
> mixer) you will get others (like muscles, advanced rigging, chops,...)
>
> Don't worry and give it a go
>
> 

Re: Opinion gathering

[Tim Crowson]

Honestly I can't even say "come back in 3 years." That's basically what I
said 3 years ago. If it was still Luxology and not The Foundry, then maybe.
But at this point things are dragging on and getting a bit long in the
tooth. I don't want to go ranting. All I can say is I still can't recommend
Modo as a production backbone app with the kinds of productions I know are
done by folks here.

-Tim


On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 5:47 PM Jonathan Moore 
wrote:

I (alongside Tim Crowson from this list) have been a long term beta tester
for Modo, so I'll shoot from the hip here. I think Tim shares many of my
own thoughts and impressions and I'm sure he'll pipe in if there's any
aspects he disagrees with.

First the good part, Modo remains as it's ever been the best direct
modelling package on earth! A mighty claim but I think it's well deserved.
Only recently the team at ILM used Modo for all of their kit-bashing on
Star Wars 'Rogue One'. And to build on it's strengths as a direct modeller,
Foundry moved to an incremental development strategy for the 10 series and
Modo has now managed to remedy that equally deserved reputation of being
the most unstable DCC money can buy. They're looking to carry on with this
incremental development approach going forward to help ensure big new
features aren't partnered with a stability nosedive.

Now comes the downside, once you go past Modo's core strengths as an asset
creation tool due to it's great modelling texturing and rendering workflows
(once you submit to the shader tree approach!), it barely scratches the
surface of what's required for a pipeline animation toolset. Now that
stability has been fixed, animation and solid pipeline credentials are the
next target. There's so much to be remedied here it's going to be a number
of years before it's even ready for consideration.

If you can afford the luxury of using Modo strictly for its asset creation
strengths, it's a great weapon to have in your armoury. If you're looking
for an XSI replacement, come back in three years.

On 16 February 2017 at 21:15, Eugene Flormata  wrote:

for people who transitioned to modo
how's the stability in that program? I bought modo indie on steam when it
was on sale with the idea to learn it on the side,
but I barely got to use it. was still getting used to maya which i use at
work. which although I like the tools. everything like explode for reasons
I couldn't figure out.

my plan is to jump on the houdini wagon come the new apprenctice, then jump
on indie and learn that till I'm comfortable enough to get work to buy full
licenses.
I hope it's stable


On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Jordi Bares  wrote:

Below

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Feb 2017, at 18:47, phil harbath  wrote:

I am very curious on how people feel about houdini’s character animation
tools.  I am reluctant to move on from Softimage until there is something
out there that is at least close to being on par with it.


It is pretty similar and although you will miss a few things (like the
mixer) you will get others (like muscles, advanced rigging, chops,...)

Don't worry and give it a go

Specifically the Shape Manager, non-destructive weights, and the animation
mixer really help me get the job done, and when it comes to the negative
things I hear about Maya it has kept me from making the leap in that
direction even though I theoretically own 2 copies,  I really am hoping
that Houdini is close because I really only want to make a change once.


Shape management you do it out of the box through nodal workflow. Not as
slick but more powerful.

Non-destructive is the name of the game.

No mixer but you have animation layers (although a bit wonky)

Rigging is way way better in Houdini

Hope it helps

Jb


thanks

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Re: Opinion gathering

[Eugene Flormata]

for people who transitioned to modo
how's the stability in that program? I bought modo indie on steam when it
was on sale with the idea to learn it on the side,
but I barely got to use it. was still getting used to maya which i use at
work. which although I like the tools. everything like explode for reasons
I couldn't figure out.

my plan is to jump on the houdini wagon come the new apprenctice, then jump
on indie and learn that till I'm comfortable enough to get work to buy full
licenses.
I hope it's stable


On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Jordi Bares  wrote:

> Below
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 16 Feb 2017, at 18:47, phil harbath 
> wrote:
>
> I am very curious on how people feel about houdini’s character animation
> tools.  I am reluctant to move on from Softimage until there is something
> out there that is at least close to being on par with it.
>
>
> It is pretty similar and although you will miss a few things (like the
> mixer) you will get others (like muscles, advanced rigging, chops,...)
>
> Don't worry and give it a go
>
> Specifically the Shape Manager, non-destructive weights, and the animation
> mixer really help me get the job done, and when it comes to the negative
> things I hear about Maya it has kept me from making the leap in that
> direction even though I theoretically own 2 copies,  I really am hoping
> that Houdini is close because I really only want to make a change once.
>
>
> Shape management you do it out of the box through nodal workflow. Not as
> slick but more powerful.
>
> Non-destructive is the name of the game.
>
> No mixer but you have animation layers (although a bit wonky)
>
> Rigging is way way better in Houdini
>
> Hope it helps
>
> Jb
>
>
> thanks
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
>
> --
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> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

Below 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 Feb 2017, at 18:47, phil harbath  wrote:
> 
> I am very curious on how people feel about houdini’s character animation 
> tools.  I am reluctant to move on from Softimage until there is something out 
> there that is at least close to being on par with it. 

It is pretty similar and although you will miss a few things (like the mixer) 
you will get others (like muscles, advanced rigging, chops,...)

Don't worry and give it a go

> Specifically the Shape Manager, non-destructive weights, and the animation 
> mixer really help me get the job done, and when it comes to the negative 
> things I hear about Maya it has kept me from making the leap in that 
> direction even though I theoretically own 2 copies,  I really am hoping that 
> Houdini is close because I really only want to make a change once.

Shape management you do it out of the box through nodal workflow. Not as slick 
but more powerful.

Non-destructive is the name of the game.

No mixer but you have animation layers (although a bit wonky)

Rigging is way way better in Houdini

Hope it helps 

Jb

>  
> thanks
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Pierre Schiller]

; capable of so much more than VFX, SideFX know this and have been actively
>> developing a set of tools to facilitate the UX journeys of a more
>> generalist user and there's a new generation of creative talent unafraid of
>> Houdini's more technical side. For me, Houdini's future is indeed bright.
>>
>> On 16 February 2017 at 10:30, Laurence Dodd <laure...@porkpie.tv> wrote:
>>
>> Good, that's sorted then Houdini town here I come! Every time I open Maya
>> my heart sinks, its a mess. I'm amazed at how quickly I have felt at home
>> in Houdini, its beautifully logical. I'm still acclimatising, but I feel
>> rather excited about it, which is nice.
>>
>> On 16 February 2017 at 10:14, Andi Farhall <hack...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>> From a personal perspective It's Houdini for me. Maya will only get worse
>> the more they dick about with it and having to buy a shed load of plugins
>> just to make it usable is too expensive for most freelancers. I've also
>> much more faith in SideFX to keep providing me with evolving software.
>>
>>
>> A>
>>
>>
>> 
>> ...
>> http://www.hackneyeffects.com/
>> https://vimeo.com/user4174293
>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21
>>
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/
>> http://spylon.tumblr.com/
>>
>> This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended
>> solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or
>> opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
>> represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.
>>
>> If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither
>> take any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.
>>
>> Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in
>> error.
>> 
>> --
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Laurence Dodd <
>> laure...@porkpie.tv>
>> *Sent:* 16 February 2017 09:29:04
>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
>> forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>> *Subject:* Opinion gathering
>>
>> I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London
>> are switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software
>>  (Combustion, anyone?)
>>
>> Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will
>> they be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us
>> switching?
>>
>> Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.
>>
>> Cheers all
>>
>> --
>>
>> Laurence Dodd
>> Porkpie Animation
>> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
>> W: www.porkpie.tv
>> M: 07570 702 576
>> T: 01273 278 382
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
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>> Laurence Dodd
>> Porkpie Animation
>> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
>> W: www.porkpie.tv
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>> T: 01273 278 382
>>
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> Leandro Giorni
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> www.lmgiorni.com
>
> Espiral Studios / Art Director
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-- 
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

 that's sorted then Houdini town here I come! Every time I open Maya 
>>> my heart sinks, its a mess. I'm amazed at how quickly I have felt at home 
>>> in Houdini, its beautifully logical. I'm still acclimatising, but I feel 
>>> rather excited about it, which is nice.
>>> 
>>> On 16 February 2017 at 10:14, Andi Farhall <hack...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> From a personal perspective It's Houdini for me. Maya will only get worse 
>>> the more they dick about with it and having to buy a shed load of plugins 
>>> just to make it usable is too expensive for most freelancers. I've also 
>>> much more faith in SideFX to keep providing me with evolving software. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> A>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ...
>>> http://www.hackneyeffects.com/
>>> https://vimeo.com/user4174293
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/
>>> http://spylon.tumblr.com/
>>> 
>>> This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended 
>>> solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or 
>>> opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
>>> represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.
>>> 
>>> If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take 
>>> any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.
>>> 
>>> Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in 
>>> error.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
>>> <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Laurence Dodd 
>>> <laure...@porkpie.tv>
>>> Sent: 16 February 2017 09:29:04
>>> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>>> Subject: Opinion gathering
>>>  
>>> I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London 
>>> are switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software  
>>> (Combustion, anyone?)
>>> 
>>> Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will 
>>> they be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us 
>>> switching? 
>>> 
>>> Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.
>>> 
>>> Cheers all
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Laurence Dodd
>>> Porkpie Animation
>>> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
>>> W: www.porkpie.tv
>>> M: 07570 702 576
>>> T: 01273 278 382
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
>>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Laurence Dodd
>>> Porkpie Animation
>>> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
>>> W: www.porkpie.tv
>>> M: 07570 702 576
>>> T: 01273 278 382
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
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>>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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>>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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> lmgio...@gmail.com / +549113170202
> www.lmgiorni.com
> 
> Espiral Studios / Art Director 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Leandro Giorni]

..
> http://www.hackneyeffects.com/
> https://vimeo.com/user4174293
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21
>
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/
> http://spylon.tumblr.com/
>
> This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended
> solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or
> opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
> represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.
>
> If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take
> any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.
>
> Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in
> error.
> --------
> --
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Laurence Dodd <
> laure...@porkpie.tv>
> *Sent:* 16 February 2017 09:29:04
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
> *Subject:* Opinion gathering
>
> I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London
> are switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software
>  (Combustion, anyone?)
>
> Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will
> they be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us
> switching?
>
> Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.
>
> Cheers all
>
> --
>
> Laurence Dodd
> Porkpie Animation
> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
> W: www.porkpie.tv
> M: 07570 702 576
> T: 01273 278 382
>
> --
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Laurence Dodd
> Porkpie Animation
> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
> W: www.porkpie.tv
> M: 07570 702 576
> T: 01273 278 382
>
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www.lmgiorni.com

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Re: Opinion gathering

[phil harbath]

I am very curious on how people feel about houdini’s character animation tools. 
 I am reluctant to move on from Softimage until there is something out there 
that is at least close to being on par with it.  Specifically the Shape 
Manager, non-destructive weights, and the animation mixer really help me get 
the job done, and when it comes to the negative things I hear about Maya it has 
kept me from making the leap in that direction even though I theoretically own 
2 copies,  I really am hoping that Houdini is close because I really only want 
to make a change once.
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Adam Seeley]

>>> This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are
>>> intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any
>>> views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
>>> necessarily represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.
>>>
>>> If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither
>>> take any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.
>>>
>>> Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in
>>> error.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Laurence Dodd <
>>> laure...@porkpie.tv>
>>> *Sent:* 16 February 2017 09:29:04
>>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>>> *Subject:* Opinion gathering
>>>
>>> I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London
>>> are switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software
>>>  (Combustion, anyone?)
>>>
>>> Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will
>>> they be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us
>>> switching?
>>>
>>> Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.
>>>
>>> Cheers all
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Laurence Dodd
>>> Porkpie Animation
>>> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
>>> W: www.porkpie.tv
>>> M: 07570 702 576
>>> T: 01273 278 382
>>>
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Laurence Dodd
>> Porkpie Animation
>> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
>> W: www.porkpie.tv
>> M: 07570 702 576
>> T: 01273 278 382
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
> --
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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>
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

.@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> 
> <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>> on behalf of Laurence Dodd 
> <laure...@porkpie.tv <mailto:laure...@porkpie.tv>>
> Sent: 16 February 2017 09:29:04
> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list 
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list>
> Subject: Opinion gathering
>  
> I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London are 
> switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software  
> (Combustion, anyone?)
> 
> Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will they 
> be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us 
> switching? 
> 
> Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.
> 
> Cheers all
> 
> -- 
> Laurence Dodd
> Porkpie Animation
> E: laure...@porkpie.tv <mailto:laure...@porkpie.tv>
> W: www.porkpie.tv <http://www.porkpie.tv/>
> M: 07570 702 576
> T: 01273 278 382
> 
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com 
> <mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the 
> subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Laurence Dodd
> Porkpie Animation
> E: laure...@porkpie.tv <mailto:laure...@porkpie.tv>
> W: www.porkpie.tv <http://www.porkpie.tv/>
> M: 07570 702 576
> T: 01273 278 382
> 
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Olivier Jeannel]

 Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in
>>> error.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
>>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Laurence Dodd <
>>> laure...@porkpie.tv>
>>> *Sent:* 16 February 2017 09:29:04
>>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>>> *Subject:* Opinion gathering
>>>
>>> I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London
>>> are switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software
>>>  (Combustion, anyone?)
>>>
>>> Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will
>>> they be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us
>>> switching?
>>>
>>> Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.
>>>
>>> Cheers all
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Laurence Dodd
>>> Porkpie Animation
>>> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
>>> W: www.porkpie.tv
>>> M: 07570 702 576
>>> T: 01273 278 382
>>>
>>> --
>>> Softimage Mailing List.
>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Laurence Dodd
>> Porkpie Animation
>> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
>> W: www.porkpie.tv
>> M: 07570 702 576
>> T: 01273 278 382
>>
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>>
>
>
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> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Christoph Muetze]

On 02/16/2017 01:12 PM, Jonathan Moore wrote:

>  For me, Houdini's future is indeed bright.
aw man... you wrote such an uplifting feel-good mail... just to crush us
in the end - brutal.

;)

Chris












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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jonathan Moore]

I work with the University of the Arts London, mentoring final year
students that are planning to set up their own creative businesses after
graduation (a surprising number see this as the best route these days). The
students I'm working with generally come from a fine art, graphic design or
product design background and much of their exploration of 3d technologies
has been extracurricular. They're different to MA graduates from somewhere
like Bournmouth (the types of student looking for a career in CG
animation).

I've been working with *ual:* for a number of years now and I've noticed a
real shift in the adoption of Houdini over Maya. I think this bias is a the
result of SideFX's historic strategy with Houdini Apprentice, which allows
 students to explore Houdini in their own time (this is important as 3d
creativity isn't necessarily core to their course). The bigger recent
impact has come from the availability of Houdini Indie. Students often see
SideFX as the cool challenger to the Autodesk corporate behemoth. The fact
that Houdini Indie allows them to render with Redshift of Octane is a huge
benefit too. Creative exploration at home with GPU rendering is far more
productive than a reliance on Mantra. Not dissing Mantra here, it can go
toe to toe with Arnold but it's a studio grade production renderer
optimised for farm use.

The other major shift I've seen with young talent entering the creative
industries is that this is a generation that started learning the likes
Python, Unity and Arduino at high school. For them the term technical
artist is often seen as an oxymoron. They simply see themselves as artists
that are just as happy creating algorithmically generated art in Processing
as they are utilising VEX in Houdini. They see a programmatic mindset as
being an essential part of the mix. Im not saying all young art students
match this profile, but the ones that explore 3d and digital interactive
technologies most certainly do. You seldom hear the cry 'but I'm an
artists, not a programmer' from this generation of young creatives.

This is probably a different perspective to what you were directly asking,
but I really do believe Houdini is on the cusp of breaking away from the
solo mantle of being the goto VFX DCC of choice. Houdini is capable of so
much more than VFX, SideFX know this and have been actively developing a
set of tools to facilitate the UX journeys of a more generalist user and
there's a new generation of creative talent unafraid of Houdini's more
technical side. For me, Houdini's future is indeed bright.

On 16 February 2017 at 10:30, Laurence Dodd <laure...@porkpie.tv> wrote:

> Good, that's sorted then Houdini town here I come! Every time I open Maya
> my heart sinks, its a mess. I'm amazed at how quickly I have felt at home
> in Houdini, its beautifully logical. I'm still acclimatising, but I feel
> rather excited about it, which is nice.
>
> On 16 February 2017 at 10:14, Andi Farhall <hack...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> From a personal perspective It's Houdini for me. Maya will only get worse
>> the more they dick about with it and having to buy a shed load of plugins
>> just to make it usable is too expensive for most freelancers. I've also
>> much more faith in SideFX to keep providing me with evolving software.
>>
>>
>> A>
>>
>>
>> 
>> ...
>> http://www.hackneyeffects.com/
>> https://vimeo.com/user4174293
>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21
>>
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/
>> http://spylon.tumblr.com/
>>
>> This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended
>> solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or
>> opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
>> represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.
>>
>> If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither
>> take any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.
>>
>> Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in
>> error.
>> 
>> --
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Laurence Dodd <
>> laure...@porkpie.tv>
>> *Sent:* 16 February 2017 09:29:04
>> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
>> *Subject:* Opinion gathering
>>
>> I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London
>> are switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software
>>  (Co

Re: Opinion gathering

[Simon Reeves]

I feel much more positive about day-to-day working since the loss of xsi,
maya and autodesk do not inspire confidence in the future unlike sidefx and
Houdini.

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 at 11:43 gareth bell  wrote:

> Added to this, SideFX and the Houdini community as a whole are really
> receptive, helpful and all-round good guys. You rarely come across a
> problem that can't be helped by someone from SideFX or odforce
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-- 
Simon Reeves
London, UK
*si...@simonreeves.com *
*www.simonreeves.com *
*www.analogstudio.co.uk *
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Re: Opinion gathering

[gareth bell]

Added to this, SideFX and the Houdini community as a whole are really 
receptive, helpful and all-round good guys. You rarely come across a problem 
that can't be helped by someone from SideFX or odforce
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Mirko Jankovic]

Similar story here,
As it was inevitable Sotimage jobs are declining, I also moved towards more
specific hired fro character animation and also helping out rendering with
my small GPU render farm so not so much dependable on full from start to
finish work as before.
Most of char animation jobs are in maya, which even as maya is second best
for character animation, after SI ofc, it is still rather unpleasant
experience. So keep working for bills and moving to Houdini. Part by part
ofc, first fundamental stuff overall logic, then checking out animation,
then rendering parts. That should cover mostly everything I'm doing right
now as well  :)
So yea I've added houdini to my render pool as well, indi for now but if
there are people around that needs some help with full version will be
looking to upgrading to that as well.
At the moment waiting for 21st to get into h16 :)
ᐧ

On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Gerbrand Nel <nagv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I tried Maya for a year
> I got so depressed with what my life became, that I decided to go for
> Houdini full time.
> If choosing Houdini meant that I no longer could find work as a
> freelancer, I was happier to start a new career, than living out my days
> using maya.
> I's been 2 years, and I've been busier and happier than even in the
> softimage era.
> Houdini engine means I can even work in a Maya team if we plan stuff
> properly.
> I also get to go home at 5 and watch the Maya team stay late because
> clients always change shit.
> G
>
>
> On 2017/02/16 12:14 PM, Andi Farhall wrote:
>
> From a personal perspective It's Houdini for me. Maya will only get worse
> the more they dick about with it and having to buy a shed load of plugins
> just to make it usable is too expensive for most freelancers. I've also
> much more faith in SideFX to keep providing me with evolving software.
>
>
> A>
>
>
> 
> ...
> http://www.hackneyeffects.com/
> https://vimeo.com/user4174293
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21
>
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/
> http://spylon.tumblr.com/
>
> This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended
> solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or
> opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
> represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.
>
> If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take
> any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.
>
> Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in
> error.
> 
> --
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
> <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>
> <softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Laurence Dodd
> <laure...@porkpie.tv> <laure...@porkpie.tv>
> *Sent:* 16 February 2017 09:29:04
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list
> *Subject:* Opinion gathering
>
> I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London
> are switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software
>  (Combustion, anyone?)
>
> Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will
> they be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us
> switching?
>
> Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.
>
> Cheers all
>
> --
>
> Laurence Dodd
> Porkpie Animation
> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
> W: www.porkpie.tv
> M: 07570 702 576
> T: 01273 278 382
>
>
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> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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>
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Laurence Dodd]

Good, that's sorted then Houdini town here I come! Every time I open Maya
my heart sinks, its a mess. I'm amazed at how quickly I have felt at home
in Houdini, its beautifully logical. I'm still acclimatising, but I feel
rather excited about it, which is nice.

On 16 February 2017 at 10:14, Andi Farhall <hack...@outlook.com> wrote:

> From a personal perspective It's Houdini for me. Maya will only get worse
> the more they dick about with it and having to buy a shed load of plugins
> just to make it usable is too expensive for most freelancers. I've also
> much more faith in SideFX to keep providing me with evolving software.
>
>
> A>
>
>
> 
> ...
> http://www.hackneyeffects.com/
> https://vimeo.com/user4174293
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21
>
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/
> http://spylon.tumblr.com/
>
> This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended
> solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or
> opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
> represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.
>
> If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take
> any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.
>
> Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in
> error.
> 
> --
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com <
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Laurence Dodd <
> laure...@porkpie.tv>
> *Sent:* 16 February 2017 09:29:04
> *To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/
> forum/#!forum/xsi_list
> *Subject:* Opinion gathering
>
> I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London
> are switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software
>  (Combustion, anyone?)
>
> Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will
> they be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us
> switching?
>
> Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.
>
> Cheers all
>
> --
>
> Laurence Dodd
> Porkpie Animation
> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
> W: www.porkpie.tv
> M: 07570 702 576
> T: 01273 278 382
>
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com
> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
>



-- 

Laurence Dodd
Porkpie Animation
E: laure...@porkpie.tv
W: www.porkpie.tv
M: 07570 702 576
T: 01273 278 382
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Gerbrand Nel]

I tried Maya for a year
I got so depressed with what my life became, that I decided to go for 
Houdini full time.
If choosing Houdini meant that I no longer could find work as a 
freelancer, I was happier to start a new career, than living out my days 
using maya.
I's been 2 years, and I've been busier and happier than even in the 
softimage era.
Houdini engine means I can even work in a Maya team if we plan stuff 
properly.
I also get to go home at 5 and watch the Maya team stay late because 
clients always change shit.

G

On 2017/02/16 12:14 PM, Andi Farhall wrote:


From a personal perspective It's Houdini for me. Maya will only get 
worse the more they dick about with it and having to buy a shed load 
of plugins just to make it usable is too expensive for most 
freelancers. I've also much more faith in SideFX to keep providing me 
with evolving software.



A>


...
http://www.hackneyeffects.com/
https://vimeo.com/user4174293
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21


http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/
http://spylon.tumblr.com/

This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are 
intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. 
Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do 
not necessarily represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.


If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither 
take any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.


Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email 
in error.




*From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Laurence Dodd 
<laure...@porkpie.tv>

*Sent:* 16 February 2017 09:29:04
*To:* Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

*Subject:* Opinion gathering
I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in 
London are switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog 
software  (Combustion, anyone?)


Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, 
will they be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are 
enough of us switching?


Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.

Cheers all

--

Laurence Dodd
Porkpie Animation

E: laure...@porkpie.tv <mailto:laure...@porkpie.tv>
W: www.porkpie.tv <http://www.porkpie.tv>
M: 07570 702 576
T: 01273 278 382


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Re: Opinion gathering

[Andi Farhall]

>From a personal perspective It's Houdini for me. Maya will only get worse the 
>more they dick about with it and having to buy a shed load of plugins just to 
>make it usable is too expensive for most freelancers. I've also much more 
>faith in SideFX to keep providing me with evolving software.


A>


...
http://www.hackneyeffects.com/
https://vimeo.com/user4174293
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andi-farhall/b/496/b21


http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord_hackney/
http://spylon.tumblr.com/


This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended 
solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or 
opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent those of Hackney Effects Ltd.

If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any 
action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone.

Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error.



From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
<softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Laurence Dodd 
<laure...@porkpie.tv>
Sent: 16 February 2017 09:29:04
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
Subject: Opinion gathering

I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London are 
switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software  
(Combustion, anyone?)

Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will they be 
able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us switching?

Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.

Cheers all

--

Laurence Dodd
Porkpie Animation

E: laure...@porkpie.tv<mailto:laure...@porkpie.tv>
W: www.porkpie.tv<http://www.porkpie.tv>
M: 07570 702 576
T: 01273 278 382
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Re: Opinion gathering

[mikael . pettersen]

I'm in film so I guess it's different, but among the studios the demand for 
Houdini people is at a all time high

Cheers
Mikael



> 16 feb. 2017 kl. 09:44 skrev Jordi Bares :
> 
> 
>> On 16 Feb 2017, at 09:29, Laurence Dodd  wrote:
>> 
>> I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London are 
>> switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software  
>> (Combustion, anyone?)
> 
> I would say Combustion demise came when Autodesk bought them (like many other 
> packages) so I would rather are suspicious of AD owned products than 
> independent ones.
> 
> That said, and especially in London, there is a clear momentum towards 
> Houdini and I would dare to say pretty much everyone is either incorporated 
> Houdini in one way or another or it is at the starting point of such 
> investment.
> 
>> Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will they 
>> be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us 
>> switching? 
> 
> That is a big change even for a small studio, you may want to consider your 
> options to do a nice and orderly transition… probably hire a Houdini 
> experienced and enthusiastic guy to help you move towards whatever is your 
> requirement.
> 
> I would suggest to start putting in place the software for the backbone of 
> the production, collecting assets animated in Softimage, rendering from 
> Houdini using any of the available render engines and make sure you keep your 
> FX in Houdini and render them as you want. (I am using Redshift on Houdini 
> right now)
> 
> Then start putting animation in the mix, especially since H16 has a major 
> overhaul in that field I am sure you will be surprised how capable it is 
> already.
> 
> The bad news is, hiring generalist is as not too disimilar as hiring 
> Softimage generalists, not as easy as Maya/Max of course.. that said, talk to 
> Bournemouth University as they keep producing amazing talent.
> 
> For references of what others are doing with Houdini regarding animation and 
> transitioning out from Softimage, check SHED… 
> https://sidefx.com/community/sheds-houdini-animation-pipeline/
> 
> Hope it helps
> jb
> 
>> Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.
>> 
>> Cheers all
>> 
>> -- 
>> Laurence Dodd
>> Porkpie Animation
>> E: laure...@porkpie.tv
>> W: www.porkpie.tv
>> M: 07570 702 576
>> T: 01273 278 382
>> --
>> Softimage Mailing List.
>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
>> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
> 
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> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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Re: Opinion gathering

[Jordi Bares]

> On 16 Feb 2017, at 09:29, Laurence Dodd  wrote:
> 
> I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London are 
> switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software  
> (Combustion, anyone?)

I would say Combustion demise came when Autodesk bought them (like many other 
packages) so I would rather are suspicious of AD owned products than 
independent ones.

That said, and especially in London, there is a clear momentum towards Houdini 
and I would dare to say pretty much everyone is either incorporated Houdini in 
one way or another or it is at the starting point of such investment.

> Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will they 
> be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us 
> switching? 

That is a big change even for a small studio, you may want to consider your 
options to do a nice and orderly transition… probably hire a Houdini 
experienced and enthusiastic guy to help you move towards whatever is your 
requirement.

I would suggest to start putting in place the software for the backbone of the 
production, collecting assets animated in Softimage, rendering from Houdini 
using any of the available render engines and make sure you keep your FX in 
Houdini and render them as you want. (I am using Redshift on Houdini right now)

Then start putting animation in the mix, especially since H16 has a major 
overhaul in that field I am sure you will be surprised how capable it is 
already.

The bad news is, hiring generalist is as not too disimilar as hiring Softimage 
generalists, not as easy as Maya/Max of course.. that said, talk to Bournemouth 
University as they keep producing amazing talent.

For references of what others are doing with Houdini regarding animation and 
transitioning out from Softimage, check SHED… 
https://sidefx.com/community/sheds-houdini-animation-pipeline/

Hope it helps
jb

> Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.
> 
> Cheers all
> 
> -- 
> Laurence Dodd
> Porkpie Animation
> E: laure...@porkpie.tv 
> W: www.porkpie.tv 
> M: 07570 702 576
> T: 01273 278 382
> --
> Softimage Mailing List.
> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com with 
> "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

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Opinion gathering

[Laurence Dodd]

I've been looking at houdini, liking it a lot, but what houses in London
are switching to it? Or am I, once again choosing the underdog software
 (Combustion, anyone?)

Also, if I recommend it as the main software where I usually work, will
they be able to get Houdini people that are generalists, are enough of us
switching?

Just throwing these out there to gather the mood.

Cheers all

-- 

Laurence Dodd
Porkpie Animation
E: laure...@porkpie.tv
W: www.porkpie.tv
M: 07570 702 576
T: 01273 278 382
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