Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

> On 19 Dec 2020, at 00:59, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 1:57:28 PM UTC-6 medinuclear wrote: > [Telmo Menezes] > > “Imagine the "universe" in terms of the set of all first-person experience > moments of all of its inhabitants. Is there a limit to novelty

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

ensible. Bruno >> Philip Benjamin >> >> >> >> From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >> Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:15 PM >> everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> >> Sub

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

here is no trans-speciation here form > lower animal to a higher animal!! > *Philip Benjamin*** > > > *From:* 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:15 PM > everything-list@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: Consciousness and number >

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 1:57:28 PM UTC-6 medinuclear wrote: > [*Telmo Menezes*] > > “Imagine the "universe" in terms of the set of all first-person experience > moments of all of its inhabitants. Is there a limit to novelty here? Or can > qualia also display unbounded complexity?” > >

FW: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com> Subject: RE: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?) [Telmo Menezes] "Imagine the "universe" in terms of the set of all first-person experience

RE: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

inian first person experience. There is no trans-speciation here form lower animal to a higher animal!! Philip Benjamin From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:15 PM everything-list@googlegroups.com<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re:

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

> On 17 Dec 2020, at 21:15, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 12/16/2020 11:29 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> >> Am Do, 17. Dez 2020, um 03:08, schrieb 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List: >>> >>> >>> On 12/16/2020 9:20 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Am So, 13. Dez

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

t;> >> >> >>> >>> Telmo >>> >>> Am Fr, 27. Nov 2020, um 18:35, schrieb Tomas Pales: >>>> The idea of an all-encompassing set (a set of all sets) is inconsistent, >>>> for example because the power set of a set (=the

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

Am Do, 17. Dez 2020, um 20:15, schrieb 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List: > > > On 12/16/2020 11:29 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> >> Am Do, 17. Dez 2020, um 03:08, schrieb 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List: >>> >>> >>> On 12/16/2020 9:20 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Am So, 13. Dez

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

upward and maybe there > are also sets that have no bottom, that is they contain sets that contain > sets etc. without end. But everything needs to be kept consistent and I > have heard that according to Godel's second incompleteness theorem there > may be inconsistencies lurking in infini

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

On 12/16/2020 11:29 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Am Do, 17. Dez 2020, um 03:08, schrieb 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List: On 12/16/2020 9:20 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Am So, 13. Dez 2020, um 17:11, schrieb Bruno Marchal: On 10 Dec 2020, at 16:14, Telmo Menezes

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

Am Do, 17. Dez 2020, um 03:08, schrieb 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List: > > > On 12/16/2020 9:20 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> Am So, 13. Dez 2020, um 17:11, schrieb Bruno Marchal: >>> On 10 Dec 2020, at 16:14, Telmo Menezes wrote: Mindey asked a very interesting question,

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

On 12/16/2020 9:20 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Am So, 13. Dez 2020, um 17:11, schrieb Bruno Marchal: On 10 Dec 2020, at 16:14, Telmo Menezes > wrote: Mindey asked a very interesting question, and I've been thinking about it while following the discussion. I

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

Am Di, 15. Dez 2020, um 21:32, schrieb Lawrence Crowell: > I think with cyber-neural interlinks where we will have thoughts and > sensations communicated we will come maybe to some understanding. The barrier > between subjectivity and objectivity will be at least partially penetrated. You can

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

Am Di, 15. Dez 2020, um 02:22, schrieb 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List: > I agree. I'm an advocate of the engineering solution to the "hard problem > of consciousness". When we can build AI's that act intelligently and explain > their conscious thoughts and we can adjust them so that they

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

infinity. There just seems to be a >>> never-ending hierarchy of sets, from the empty set upward and maybe there >>> are also sets that have no bottom, that is they contain sets that contain >>> sets etc. without end. But everything needs to be kept consistent and I

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

I think with cyber-neural interlinks where we will have thoughts and sensations communicated we will come maybe to some understanding. The barrier between subjectivity and objectivity will be at least partially penetrated. LC On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 8:22:57 PM UTC-6 Brent wrote: > I

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 3:22:57 AM UTC+1 Brent wrote: > I agree. I'm an advocate of the engineering solution to the "hard > problem of consciousness". When we can build AI's that act intelligently > and explain their conscious thoughts and we can adjust them so that they > are

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

Bernardo Kastrup is super-critical of those who confuse intelligence with consciousness, especially those who think that that an AI built with silicon chips ("sand") could ever be conscious. via https://twitter.com/BernardoKastrup/status/1338214536940228610 I*nterview at NeuroTech2020 -

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

 I agree.  I'm an advocate of the engineering solution to the "hard problem of consciousness".  When we can build AI's that act intelligently and explain their conscious thoughts and we can adjust them so that they are more or less humorous or optimistic v. pessimstic or intuitive v.

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

I wince when people bring consciousness into scientific discussions. It is not entirely clear how consciousness can ever be a fully scientific subject. Maybe within the soft problem limits it can be somewhat scientific. The qualia or hard problem I think is outside of science. LC On Monday,

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: * >> On 12/13/2020 9:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:* > > * >> We cannot start from consciousness,* > > I agree because the scientific method is of no use for consciousness. So instead start with

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

On Monday, December 14, 2020 at 8:22:12 AM UTC+1 Brent wrote: > > > On 12/13/2020 9:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > The logical explanation follows: > > > > NUMBER => CONSCIOUSNESS => PHYSICAL-LAWS > > > > We cannot start from consciousness, and we cannot start with matter, > > which are

Re: Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

On 12/13/2020 9:11 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: The logical explanation follows: NUMBER => CONSCIOUSNESS => PHYSICAL-LAWS We cannot start from consciousness, and we cannot start with matter, which are the notion that we have to explain from numbers, when we assume Mécanisme, and indeed, the

Consciousness and number self-reference (was Re: A universe where everything exists?)

o to create a "A >> Universe Where Everything Can Exist" ( https://mindey.com/world.pdf >> <https://mindey.com/world.pdf> ), which the Google search of 2007 returned >> me to my search query "How to create a universe, where everything can exist?" >> &

Re: A universe where everything exists?

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 9:50:45 PM UTC+1 Brent wrote: > > > On 12/11/2020 1:31 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > It did not occur me to ask linguists, but fair enough. I would say > > that there is a correspondence between language and qualia, but that > > is a deep rabbit hole.

Re: A universe where everything exists?

On 12/11/2020 1:31 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: It did not occur me to ask linguists, but fair enough. I would say that there is a correspondence between language and qualia, but that is a deep rabbit hole. Language clearly has boundless complexity, but this does not convince me that the

Re: A universe where everything exists?

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 10:32:22 AM UTC+1 telmo wrote: > > > Am Do, 10. Dez 2020, um 20:48, schrieb PGC: > > > > On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:14:42 PM UTC+1 telmo wrote: > > > Mindey asked a very interesting question, and I've been thinking about it > while following the

Re: A universe where everything exists?

Am Do, 10. Dez 2020, um 20:48, schrieb PGC: > > > On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:14:42 PM UTC+1 telmo wrote: >> __ >> Mindey asked a very interesting question, and I've been thinking about it >> while following the discussion. I don't have a good answer, but I might have >> a good

Re: A universe where everything exists?

y, I found the Everything List, because I wanted to to create a "A >>>> Universe Where Everything Can Exist" ( https://mindey.com/world.pdf ), >>>> which the Google search of 2007 returned me to my search query "How to >>>> create a universe, whe

Re: A universe where everything exists?

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 8:48:54 PM UTC+1 Brent wrote: > It would seem to need a definition of a "first person experience moment". > Personally I don't think my experiences are very big in information terms. > Notice how easily we are fooled by illusions, which tells me that a lot

Re: A universe where everything exists?

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:14:42 PM UTC+1 telmo wrote: > Mindey asked a very interesting question, and I've been thinking about it > while following the discussion. I don't have a good answer, but I might > have a good question. I propose another take: the discussion so far has >

Re: A universe where everything exists?

which the Google search of 2007 returned me to my search query "How to create a universe, where everything can exist?" So, suppose that we create a universe, where everything exists, -- would that universe be a superset of all possible universes, or, just the s

Re: A universe where everything exists?

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 8:30:16 AM UTC-6 Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 9 Dec 2020, at 20:31, Lawrence Crowell > wrote: > > On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:01:30 AM UTC-6 Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 27 Nov 2020, at 15:00, Lawrence Crowell >> wrote: >> >> This is a part of what I said

Re: A universe where everything exists?

wanted to to create a "A >> Universe Where Everything Can Exist" ( https://mindey.com/world.pdf ), which >> the Google search of 2007 returned me to my search query "How to create a >> universe, where everything can exist?" >> >> So, suppose tha

Re: A universe where everything exists?

://mindey.com/world.pdf >>> <https://mindey.com/world.pdf> ), which the Google search of 2007 returned >>> me to my search query "How to create a universe, where everything can >>> exist?” >> >> What do you mean? >> >> In such a universe there wo

Re: A universe where everything exists?

you mean? >> >> In such a universe there would be circle with four sides? >> >> The word" thing” needs a presentation or representation in some theory of >> “thing". >> >> I urge people to study a bit of mathematical logic which exp

Re: A universe where everything exists?

thing” needs a presentation or representation in some theory of > “thing". > > I urge people to study a bit of mathematical logic which explains all this. > > >> >> So, suppose that we create a universe, where everything exists, -- would >> that universe

Re: A universe where everything exists?

ate a "A > Universe Where Everything Can Exist" ( https://mindey.com/world.pdf ), > which the Google search of 2007 returned me to my search query "How to > create a universe, where everything can exist?" > > So, suppose that we create a universe, where everyt

Re: A universe where everything exists?

; > I urge people to study a bit of mathematical logic which explains all this. > > > > So, suppose that we create a universe, where everything exists, -- would > that universe be a superset of all possible universes, or, just the same > set? > > > > ”everything” is too much

Re: A universe where everything exists?

plains all this. > > So, suppose that we create a universe, where everything exists, -- would that > universe be a superset of all possible universes, or, just the same set? ”everything” is too much ambiguous without a theory of the things which are assumed. All no

Re: A universe where everything exists?

universe, where everything can exist?" So, suppose that we create a universe, where everything exists, -- would that universe be a superset of all possible universes, or, just the same set? You're asking whether some of the universe we create would be impossible?  Well, it depends on what

Re: A universe where everything exists?

where everything can exist?" > > So, suppose that we create a universe, where everything exists, -- would > that universe be a superset of all possible universes, or, just the same > set? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ev

A universe where everything exists?

ppose that we create a universe, where everything exists, -- would that universe be a superset of all possible universes, or, just the same set? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop