On 15 Dec 2013, at 17:04, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 4:04 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
you know in Helsinki that you will survive and feel to be in
only one city with probability one
That depends, Is You the Helsinki Man or the Moscow Man or the
On 15 Dec 2013, at 21:43, LizR wrote:
On 16 December 2013 06:46, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Perhaps politician should not be a profession. We would vote for
programs and ideas, and let them implemented by a random sample of
the population through some social services, or by
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 5:59 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/15/2013 4:23 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 14 Dec 2013, at 23:27, LizR wrote:
I haven't had a chance to watch it, but I do know that banks
On 16 December 2013 21:52, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 15 Dec 2013, at 21:43, LizR wrote:
On 16 December 2013 06:46, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Perhaps politician should not be a profession. We would vote for
programs and ideas, and let them implemented by a
On 16 Dec 2013, at 09:59, LizR wrote:
On 16 December 2013 21:52, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 15 Dec 2013, at 21:43, LizR wrote:
On 16 December 2013 06:46, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Perhaps politician should not be a profession. We would vote for
programs and
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 3:53 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
As I said you confuse indeterminacy (the general vague concept)
with the many different sort of indeterminacy:
1) by ignorance on initial conditions (example: the coin), that is a 3p
indeterminacy.
2) Turing form of
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:37 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
to judge the quality of the prediction about which cities the Helsinki
Man will see, you've got to hear what the Washington Man has to say too if
you want to know if the prediction was correct;
Yes. And in the step 3
On 17 December 2013 07:30, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 3:53 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
What doesn't make sense about number 4 (the MWI explanation of
indeterminacy) ?
It adds nothing to number 3,
It adds a better explanation to number 3, and
On 12/16/2013 12:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 15 Dec 2013, at 17:04, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 4:04 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
you know in Helsinki that you will survive and feel to be in
only one
city with
On 12/16/2013 12:53 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 5:59 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/15/2013 4:23 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 14 Dec 2013, at 23:27, LizR wrote:
I haven't had a
On 17 December 2013 08:06, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
JKC makes a big point of the complete separation of quantum worlds,
although Everett didn't write about multiple worlds. Everett only
considered one world and wrote about the relative state of the observer
and the observed
On 17 December 2013 09:02, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
You always refer to central banks. But all banks always did this. The
bank would take 1M$ in deposits and then make 10M$ in loans, depending on
the fact that statistically only a few depositors would ask for their money
at any
On 12/16/2013 12:40 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 08:06, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
JKC makes a big point of the complete separation of quantum worlds,
although Everett
didn't write about multiple worlds. Everett only considered one world
On 17 December 2013 10:14, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 12:40 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 08:06, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
JKC makes a big point of the complete separation of quantum worlds,
although Everett didn't write about multiple worlds.
On 12/16/2013 1:30 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 10:14, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
On 12/16/2013 12:40 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 08:06, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
JKC makes a big
On 17 December 2013 10:43, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
Is that another way of saying you don't think Arithmetical Realism is
correct? (Which is fair enough, of course, it is a supposition.)
Yes. I think it is a questionable hypothesis.
Yes, I think so too on days with an 'R' in
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:14 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 12:40 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 08:06, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
JKC makes a big point of the complete separation of quantum worlds,
although Everett didn't write about multiple
On 12/16/2013 2:05 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 10:43, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
Is that another way of saying you don't think Arithmetical Realism is
correct?
(Which is fair enough, of course, it is a supposition.)
Yes. I think it is
On 12/16/2013 2:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:14 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 12:40 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 08:06, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 17 December 2013 13:07, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
In a sense, one can be more certain about arithmetical reality than the
physical reality. An evil demon could be responsible for our belief in
atoms, and stars, and photons, etc., but it is may be impossible for that
same demon
On 12/16/2013 4:41 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 13:07, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
In a sense, one can be more certain about arithmetical reality than the
physical
reality. An evil demon could be responsible for our belief in atoms, and
On 17 December 2013 14:03, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 4:41 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 13:07, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
In a sense, one can be more certain about arithmetical reality than
the physical reality. An evil demon could be
On 12/16/2013 5:23 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 14:03, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
On 12/16/2013 4:41 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 13:07, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
In a sense, one
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 6:07 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 2:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:14 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 12:40 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 08:06, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
Amen to that, Brent!
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:03 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 4:41 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 13:07, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
In a sense, one can be more certain about arithmetical reality than
the physical reality. An
Hi Liz
My $.0001.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:23 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 December 2013 14:03, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 4:41 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 13:07, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
In a sense, one can be more certain
Are you saying 17 may evolve to no longer be prime?
:)
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Hi Liz,
Yes! Consider a universe with only 16 objects in it.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 9:31 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
Are you saying 17 may evolve to no longer be prime?
:)
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On 17 December 2013 15:34, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote:
Hi Liz,
Yes! Consider a universe with only 16 objects in it.
What about it?
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On 17 December 2013 15:33, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote:
Hi,
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 9:28 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
My point, such as it is, is that we can use the same maths for both the
Newtonian domain in which things behave roughly according to common sense
Hi LizR,
For example, the commutator that relates observables to each other is
different. The statistical relations that can be used to accurately model
experimental data is different. Most importantly, the ontologies are very
different.
Classical physics allows a Laplacean observer to exist,
An observer in such a univer could never count to 17...
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 9:42 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 December 2013 15:34, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.comwrote:
Hi Liz,
Yes! Consider a universe with only 16 objects in it.
What about it?
--
You
On 12/16/2013 6:28 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 14:54, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
You asked where does the unreasonable effectiveness come from. Maybe I
should have
asked what you thought Wigner was referring to. I don't think he was
There couldn't be an observer in such a universe, it's far too simple. But
if there was one, he could deduce the existence of 17 theoretically, and
work out its properties.
On 17 December 2013 15:48, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote:
An observer in such a univer could never
On 17 December 2013 15:50, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
I don't see that it follows. Just like Shannon's information and
Boltzmann's entropy, the domains are very much related so it's no surprise
that we can carry over some math developed for Newtonian physics and apply
it to quantum
Dear LizR,
That is exactly the point that I wanted to make: 'There couldn't be an
observer in such a universe, it's far too simple. There could not be one
wherefore he could deduce the existence of 17 theoretically, and work out
its properties is impossible: probability zero.
We could never
On 17 December 2013 16:22, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote:
Dear LizR,
That is exactly the point that I wanted to make: 'There couldn't be an
observer in such a universe, it's far too simple. There could not be one
wherefore he could deduce the existence of 17
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
Hi Liz,
Yes! Consider a universe with only 16 objects in it.
Our observable universe has less than 10^100 things in it, yet the HTTPS
connection to my mail server relied on prime numbers of many hundreds
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
An observer in such a univer could never count to 17...
Did you know you can count up to 1023 on your fingers? I'll leave it as an
exercise to figure out how. ;-)
Jason
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Dear LirZ,
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:52 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 December 2013 16:22, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.comwrote:
Dear LizR,
That is exactly the point that I wanted to make: 'There couldn't be an
observer in such a universe, it's far too simple.
On 12/16/2013 6:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 6:07 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 2:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:14 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
On 12/16/2013 6:31 PM, LizR wrote:
Are you saying 17 may evolve to no longer be prime?
:)
Actually it did. It became a real and infinitely divisible.
Brent
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On 12/16/2013 6:54 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 15:50, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
I don't see that it follows. Just like Shannon's information and
Boltzmann's
entropy, the domains are very much related so it's no surprise that we can
In finite time and with a finite minimal action? NO!
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:17 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 6:31 PM, LizR wrote:
Are you saying 17 may evolve to no longer be prime?
:)
Actually it did. It became a real and infinitely divisible.
Brent
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
Dear LirZ,
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:52 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 December 2013 16:22, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.comwrote:
Dear LizR,
That is exactly the point that I
Observables, in general, have been shown to not commute, contra the
Classical assumptions of observables.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:27 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 6:54 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 15:50, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
I don't see
No, your making the mistake of identifying a representation of a thing with
the thing. The symbol 10^80 does not have 10^80 components, so to act as it
is does...
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:29 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Stephen Paul King
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:11 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 6:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 6:07 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 2:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 3:14 PM, meekerdb
On 12/16/2013 8:52 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 16:22, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.com
mailto:stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
Dear LizR,
That is exactly the point that I wanted to make: 'There couldn't be an
observer in
such a universe, it's far too
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
No, your making the mistake of identifying a representation of a thing
with the thing. The symbol 10^80 does not have 10^80 components, so to act
as it is does...
Tell me this, is the following (270 digit)
I do not assume that computations can occur if there are no physical means
to implement them. My imagination that s 270 digit string is prime is not
equivalent to actually doing the computation that tests for primeness.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:47 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:45 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 8:52 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 16:22, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.comwrote:
Dear LizR,
That is exactly the point that I wanted to make: 'There couldn't be
an observer in
So you are arguing that doing the computations is what makes a number prime
or not?
When does the number first become prime, is it when the first person
anywhere in the universe checks it? What about people beyond the
cosmological horizon that compute it, or what about people in hypothetical
On 12/16/2013 9:36 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:11 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 6:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 6:07 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
Yes, but why are you being anthropocentric? If there can exist a physical
process that is a bisimulation of the computation of the test for
primeness, then the primeness is true. Otherwise, we are merely guessing,
at best.
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/16/2013 9:49 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:45 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 8:52 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 16:22, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.com
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
Yes, but why are you being anthropocentric?
I thought that was your position, or at least (observer-centric), in that
numbers only have properties when observed/checked/computed by some entity
somewhere.
On 12/16/2013 10:02 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.com
mailto:stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
Yes, but why are you being anthropocentric?
I thought that was your position, or at least (observer-centric), in that
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 9:36 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:11 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 6:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 6:07 PM, meekerdb
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:06 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 10:02 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
Yes, but why are you being anthropocentric?
I thought that was your position, or
I agree with Jason!
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:13 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:06 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 10:02 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Stephen Paul King
Hi Jason,
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:02 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
Yes, but why are you being anthropocentric?
I thought that was your position, or at least (observer-centric), in
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
Hi Jason,
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:02 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
Yes, but why are you being
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
I agree with Jason!
Great :-)
Now all I need to do is convince you that 17 is prime without anyone having
to compute and confirm that fact, and then you will have an explanation for
why you believe you are
On 12/16/2013 10:13 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:06 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 10:02 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com
On 17 December 2013 17:58, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
An observer in such a univer could never count to 17...
Did you know you can count up to 1023 on your fingers? I'll leave it as
an
On 17 December 2013 18:06, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote:
Dear LirZ,
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:52 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote:
On 17 December 2013 16:22, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.comwrote:
Dear LizR,
That is exactly the point that I wanted
On 17 December 2013 19:01, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
I know. I was just taking 10^80 to mean a very big number which of
course depends on context. I generally do applied physics and engineering
and so 10^80+1 = 10^80 for physical variables.
That reminds me of a joke...
...but
On 12/16/2013 11:26 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 19:01, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
I know. I was just taking 10^80 to mean a very big number which of
course depends
on context. I generally do applied physics and engineering and so 10^80+1
On 17 December 2013 19:06, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 10:02 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
Yes, but why are you being anthropocentric?
I thought that was your position, or at least
On 17 December 2013 20:34, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 12/16/2013 11:26 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 December 2013 19:01, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
I know. I was just taking 10^80 to mean a very big number which of
course depends on context. I generally do applied
Jason, String theory predicts that there may be as much as 10^90 Calabi-Yau
compact manifold per cc. Richard
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:56 PM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Stephen Paul King
stephe...@provensecure.com wrote:
Hi Liz,
Yes!
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