seeking home for adult feluk positive cat - family doesn't care about him

[JENI RECA]

Hi,
 
Seeking home for an adult feluk positive cat (this is not my cat). Male, 
neutered, grey and white, 4 year old cat named scooter.  Family especially the 
wife wants to get rid of cat.  Cat has been living mostly outdoors, due to the 
fact he doesn't always use his litter box, though has been using it since the 
wife sent the rug out for a cleaning.  Wife doesn't like the cat and doesn't 
really care for it.  Tested positive on elisa and IFA.  Urine tested and 
nothing unusal, possibly behavioral problemn (with rug?  the wife will not 
listen to suggestions).  Will bring cat to the vet for blood test and another 
wellness check before giving him to a new home.  He needs someone to finally 
love him and care for him.  Very nice cat.  Willing to travel, food, toys and 
carrier will be included with him.  He lives in the new york area.  Any help is 
greatly appreciated.  Have contacted other rescues and sanctuaries but no 
response.
Thank you
Jeni 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Still here but very busy

[Sally Davis]

HI Kelly

I have a good friend whose friendship I value greatly. I had to bite my
tongue when she told em she was getting her two cats declawed. They are two
healthy happy cats she did this a year ago. I would never choose this option
for cats. My door frame shows it toolol one of Junior favorite
scratching post.

Sally



On 9/26/07, Kelly L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I still have my Felv cat3 fiv and 40 others,,
> I will adopt out to good owners who DO declawand will never be
> intimidated but those who do not approve, but that is theri opinion
> Kelly
> www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com
>
>
>
>


-- 
Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior, Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little
Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver, and  Spike  Visit my BB for some pictures post
your as well.

http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3

Re: Isabella

[laurieskatz]

Thanks. We are thrilled. You would never know she is feleuk positive.
Transdermal pain meds and pred daily, interferon  7 days on/7days off and 
feline transfer factor ~ this is what we are doing.
She plays and purrs constantly. 
  - Original Message - 
  From: catatonya 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 7:57 PM
  Subject: Isabella


  Good to hear Isabella is doing well.
  tonya

  laurieskatz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello. Our feline leuk+ cat Isabella is doing great. I am still here to 
share what is working for us and in case..
Laurie
- Original Message - 
From: "Melissa Lind" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: offlist


> Megan, I'm in the same boat as you. I don't have an FeLV kitty anymore, 
> but
> I'm hanging around for a while to see if things improve. I'm glad you've
> stuck around too. I hope you are coping with the loss of sweet Olive. I
> forgot if you had any other kitties or had taken any in since then?
>
> Melissa
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan Heikkinen
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:02 PM
> To: felvtalk
> Subject: RE: offlist
>
> Most people have left? That's pathetic. Everyone has their opinions, they
> can
> be rude, they can get upset, blah blah blah. But aren't we all adults 
> here?
> Hell, I'm probably the youngest person here, at twenty, and I'm finding 
> this
>
> all rather ridiculous.
>
> Everyone here was really supportive when I was dealing with Olive's
> sickness,
> but it kind of upsets me that even more people could have helped, that 
> there
>
> were people who used to be on here who might have had even better
> suggestions
> than the great ones that I received. Yeah, there probably wasn't much 
more 
> I
>
> could've done for Olive, regardless of what people could tell me. But the
> thing is, it's SCARY that people have left over stupid bickering, when we
> NEED
> those people to help us with our sick babies. The more people there are, 
> the
>
> more experience there is, and therefore more information is available. 
> This
> list has made a difference for many people, but it could make a difference
> for
> so many more. Honestly, the fact that people have left simply because they
> couldn't get along with a couple of other people disgusts me. I guess if
> someone REALLY needs to leave, that's one thing. But over some petty
> bickering? Come on.
>
> I'm sure someone will find something to bitch at me for, but you know 
> what?
> I
> don't care. I'm mature enough to just ignore it. And it's funny, because I
> don't even have a FeLV+ kitty anymore, yet I'm still on here. Really, the
> arguing doesn't bother me too much, aside from filling up my inbox. What
> bothers me is that people are leaving because of it. THIS IS FOR OUR CATS.
> THIS IS TO SAVE THEIR LIVES. I'm just thankful that this list exists, and 
> it
>
> would sadden me to see it dwindle away.
>
> -Megan
>
>>= Original Message From Kelley Saveika =
>>Nobody leave? Most people have already left.
>>
>>It is really sad.
>>
>>On 9/26/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
>>>
>>> Nobody leave! This getting stupid! Glenda, don't leave...
>>> -Caroline
>>>
>>> > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:50:53 -0700
>>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > Subject: Fwd: Re: offlist
>>> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --- glenda Goodman wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
>>> > > From: glenda Goodman 
>>> > > Subject: Re: offlist
>>> > > To: catatonya 
>>> > >
>>> > > Well, Tonya,
>>> > > I guess I have been put in my place? ( I have been
>>> > > judged by the best.) I humbly apologize to all here
>>> > > and elsewhere, whom I have upset with my opinions,
>>> > > and
>>> > > infuriated with my stupidity. Having been so
>>> > > enlightened by your revelations here, think it
>>> > > best,
>>> > > I exit this list. I certainly, being of "grade 1"
>>> > > like
>>> > > Susan, could not possible contribute anything to
>>> > > this
>>> > > list anyway. Between you and I Tonya, that is the
>>> > > best compliment I have had for a long time,
>>> > > classified
>>> > > in Susan's league...whew!
>>> > > Eventually, this list will be of one opinion and
>>> > > all
>>> > > will be able to get along ,because more than likely,
>>> > > there will only be one or two left to share
>>> > > information, give support, and so on.
>>> > > Peace, love and joy to all,
>>> > > Glend

Re: Sorry

[catatonya]

Sherry,
   
  You have absolutely nothing to be sorry about.  You did not cause the 
problems we've had with people leaving the list over the past month or so.  
Your situation just illustrated the kind of responses that are running people 
off in droves.
  t

Sherry DeHaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I just want to say that I am sorry if people were offended on the stupid 
argument that started here on Monday.I say stupid because we let it get out of 
hand.We are supposed to be adults and supportive of each other.I KNOW everybody 
has thier own opinions and that is fine.I was fine with certain peoples 
opinions,but to call the place that I respect and devote myself to a Hellhole 
was just plain un called for.And I am NOT trying to get any arguing going 
again.I have respected this list for almost 2 years now.Many have been here for 
me in my loss of Maizee(the beautiful felv baby that brought me to this 
list).Many have left because of the exact same thing that went on here.
  We are here to help one another NOT to force our opinions upon.Ok to speak 
them but not to attack because we dont agree.
  I am not a fighter.But when I am attacked it is hard not to.
  So I just want to say sorry for the mess that occured here.
   

-
  Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 

Isabella

[catatonya]

Good to hear Isabella is doing well.
  tonya

laurieskatz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hello. Our feline leuk+ cat Isabella is doing great. I am still here to 
share what is working for us and in case..
Laurie
- Original Message - 
From: "Melissa Lind" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: offlist


> Megan, I'm in the same boat as you. I don't have an FeLV kitty anymore, 
> but
> I'm hanging around for a while to see if things improve. I'm glad you've
> stuck around too. I hope you are coping with the loss of sweet Olive. I
> forgot if you had any other kitties or had taken any in since then?
>
> Melissa
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan Heikkinen
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:02 PM
> To: felvtalk
> Subject: RE: offlist
>
> Most people have left? That's pathetic. Everyone has their opinions, they
> can
> be rude, they can get upset, blah blah blah. But aren't we all adults 
> here?
> Hell, I'm probably the youngest person here, at twenty, and I'm finding 
> this
>
> all rather ridiculous.
>
> Everyone here was really supportive when I was dealing with Olive's
> sickness,
> but it kind of upsets me that even more people could have helped, that 
> there
>
> were people who used to be on here who might have had even better
> suggestions
> than the great ones that I received. Yeah, there probably wasn't much more 
> I
>
> could've done for Olive, regardless of what people could tell me. But the
> thing is, it's SCARY that people have left over stupid bickering, when we
> NEED
> those people to help us with our sick babies. The more people there are, 
> the
>
> more experience there is, and therefore more information is available. 
> This
> list has made a difference for many people, but it could make a difference
> for
> so many more. Honestly, the fact that people have left simply because they
> couldn't get along with a couple of other people disgusts me. I guess if
> someone REALLY needs to leave, that's one thing. But over some petty
> bickering? Come on.
>
> I'm sure someone will find something to bitch at me for, but you know 
> what?
> I
> don't care. I'm mature enough to just ignore it. And it's funny, because I
> don't even have a FeLV+ kitty anymore, yet I'm still on here. Really, the
> arguing doesn't bother me too much, aside from filling up my inbox. What
> bothers me is that people are leaving because of it. THIS IS FOR OUR CATS.
> THIS IS TO SAVE THEIR LIVES. I'm just thankful that this list exists, and 
> it
>
> would sadden me to see it dwindle away.
>
> -Megan
>
>>= Original Message From Kelley Saveika =
>>Nobody leave? Most people have already left.
>>
>>It is really sad.
>>
>>On 9/26/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
>>>
>>> Nobody leave! This getting stupid! Glenda, don't leave...
>>> -Caroline
>>>
>>> > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:50:53 -0700
>>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > Subject: Fwd: Re: offlist
>>> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --- glenda Goodman wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
>>> > > From: glenda Goodman 
>>> > > Subject: Re: offlist
>>> > > To: catatonya 
>>> > >
>>> > > Well, Tonya,
>>> > > I guess I have been put in my place? ( I have been
>>> > > judged by the best.) I humbly apologize to all here
>>> > > and elsewhere, whom I have upset with my opinions,
>>> > > and
>>> > > infuriated with my stupidity. Having been so
>>> > > enlightened by your revelations here, think it
>>> > > best,
>>> > > I exit this list. I certainly, being of "grade 1"
>>> > > like
>>> > > Susan, could not possible contribute anything to
>>> > > this
>>> > > list anyway. Between you and I Tonya, that is the
>>> > > best compliment I have had for a long time,
>>> > > classified
>>> > > in Susan's league...whew!
>>> > > Eventually, this list will be of one opinion and
>>> > > all
>>> > > will be able to get along ,because more than likely,
>>> > > there will only be one or two left to share
>>> > > information, give support, and so on.
>>> > > Peace, love and joy to all,
>>> > > Glenda in Nebraska
>>> > > --- catatonya wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > Susan is in grade 1 with you. You are both new to
>>> > > > the list and posting your ideas as gospel when
>>> > > > others of us have been dealing with felv for
>>> > > YEARS.
>>> > > > It is very disruptive to the list. And I hate to
>>> > > > say this because I see how what happened with your
>>> > > > trapped cat being killed happened. But a lot of
>>> > > > people left the list because of you taking that
>>> > > cat
>>> > > > to animal control where it was put down. People
>>> > > who
>>> > > > have been doing this for YEARS know you do NOT
>>> > > take
>>> > > > cats to animal shelters unless you WANT them put
>>> > > > down. I defended you as a newbie to people who
>>> > > have
>>> > > > left the list, but many of them are still upset
>>> > > > about what happened. They are upset 

Re: Autumn - Update

[catatonya]

That sounds like a good update.  I hope Autumn continues to feel better.
  tonya

Susan Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Thanks to everyone who responded. Autumn is about 11 weeks old. She has 
really responded the treatments and has perked up considerably. The Pedialyte 
definitely helped. Once we brought her home from vet, I started her immediately 
on her antibiotics, but within the hour she had vomiting and diarrhea. She was 
very weak and so I would smear Nutri Cal on her paws and squirt Pedialyte in 
her mouth. After every treatment she would perk up and the vomiting stopped 
that night. She still had diarrhea the next morning but I was able to get her 
to start eating the prescription food off my fingers. Today she is playful, but 
thin. We're trying to fatten her up a bit and get her energy levels back up. 
She's such a precious blessing, we are very grateful that she turned around. 

~Susan A.

Re: list matters

[catatonya]

I agree with Kat.  And I must say that I've been silent about all that's been 
going on with people upset and leaving the list due to a few posters who vent 
and flame their opinions rather than just sharing them.  I thought it was time 
I said something because we are losing the most knowledgeable people on this 
list and something needed to be said about what's going on.  You can state your 
opinion without being insulting.  And for the record, I'm one of the people 
that believes cats are better off dead than declawing.  I hate declawing. But I 
don't personally attack others who don't agree for their own reasons.  Every 
situation has 2 sides.
   
  tonya

Kat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
Yes, this is their list too - but there are ways of saying things to
better get your point across for consideration versus inciting a riot
by throwing flames! And while I don't have a specific quote, I believe
that's exactly what Rev.Martin Luther King,Jr. was trying to teach us
about tolerance and how to make changes effectively. 

I might have joined in the discussion with my experiences, but not under
the current judgemental/jump all over/boy-that's-stupid/intolerant replies
that have been going on.

Kat (Mew Jersey) 

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:51:15 -0400
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: list matters
> 
> And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that "our"
> includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther
> King, Jr. once said, “We will have to repent in this generation not
> merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for
> the appalling silence of the good people. I don't think anyone here
> has the right to try and silence anyone else on this list. We all
> have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether
> you like them or agree with them or not.  I'm relatively new to the
> group, I'll admit, but you lose your fundamental credibility when you
> start trying to silence certain people because you don't agree with
> them. Look, I think many of us, some of whom are too shy to speak
> out, are horrified at the thought of a shelter declawing all their
> cats and mixing positives. So I don't think its fair to single out
> Glenda and Susan. Opinionated they may be, but they have every right
> to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend toe amputation.
> 

RE: offlist

[Megan Heikkinen]

Of course it isn't a job. It's an online mailing list intended for sharing of 
information and support. In no way whatsoever is it like a job. If it feels 
like one, something is wrong. Really, being on this list and responding to 
people should not take up that much time, unless you let it. If you DO spend a 
lot of time helping people, then that shows what a good, caring person you 
are. But in no way is anyone obligated to spend hours responding to every 
single question. No one is really obligated to do anything on here, but people 
do because they care.

Because this is an online list, it's really, really easy to ignore people. 
It's also very, very easy to speak your mind. Internet drama is so easy to 
spark up. 
I've seen it many a time before. The point is, yes, things said on here can 
get people pissed off or upset. And I understand, it's not fun doing all that 
hard work out in the real world and then coming home to see all of this 
animosity in your mailbox. It can be exhausting. If it truly is a "toxic" 
environment, then leaving would probably be a good idea. It would just be a 
damn shame to lose people simply because everyone can't get along. It just 
seems like if everyone is really so concerned about all the kitties out there 
in the world, they would stay on this list just to possibly save a few more of 
them, even if those kitties belong to people you don't agree with.

-Megan

>= Original Message From Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> =
>But this isn't anyone's *job*.  Yes, there has been talk on other
>lists about what will happen to the newbies here without the benefit
>of many of the people who have left.  But if someone finds it a toxic
>environment I'm not going to tell them it is their responsibility to
>be somewhere they find unpleasant.  Most of us work in rescue, or have
>multiple sick cats, etc and have a very low tolerance for the stuff
>that has been going on here lately.

Article, with Citations.

[OfALegend]

I forgot to include the article in my previous email.  The link is  here, the 
full text follows:

_PETA Media  Center > Factsheets_ 
(http://www.peta.org/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=42)  
 
 
 
Declawing Cats: Manicure or Mutilation?
 

 
 
 
Cats’ claws and the bones and cartilage that hold them in place  allow cats 
to balance properly, climb, and defend themselves, among other  functions. 
Declawing, which removes these claws, bones, and cartilage, is a  painful and 
permanently crippling procedure that should never be performed.  There are 
effective and humane alternatives to declawing that can prevent cats  from 
inflicting 
damage with their claws.
 
Why Do Cats Claw Objects?
Cats claw to have  fun and exercise, to maintain the condition of their 
nails, and to mark their  territory—visually and with scent. They stretch by 
digging their claws in and  pulling against their own claw-hold. Cats’ natural 
instinct to scratch serves  both their physical and psychological needs. Before 
domestication, cats  satisfied these needs by clawing tree trunks. Today, 
domesticated cats can be  guided to satisfy their desire to claw without 
damaging 
valuable property.
 
Understanding Declawing
Declawing involves  10 separate, painful amputations. It is a serious 
surgery, not just a manicure.  Declawing a cat involves general anesthesia and 
amputation of the last joint of  each toe, including the bones, not just the 
nail.(1) The following are possible  complications of this surgery:
• Adverse reaction to  anesthetic
• Gangrene, which can lead to limb  amputation
• Hemorrhaging
• Permanent nerve  damage
• Persistent pain
• Reluctance to walk
• Scar  tissue formation
• Sequestrum (bone chips), requiring additional  surgery(2)
• Skin disorders
 
After surgery, the nails may grow back inside the paw, causing  pain but 
remaining invisible to observers. Declawing results in a gradual  weakening of 
leg, shoulder, and back muscles, and because of impaired balance  caused by the 
procedure, declawed cats have to relearn to walk, much as a person  would after 
losing his or her toes. 

Lasting  Difficulties
Without claws, even house-trained cats may urinate and  defecate outside the 
litterbox in an attempt to mark their territory. Declawed  cats may be morose, 
reclusive, and withdrawn or irritable, aggressive, and  unpredictable. Many 
people think that declawed cats are safer around babies, but  in fact, the lack 
of claws, a cat’s first line of defense, makes many cats feel  so insecure 
that they tend to bite more often as a means of self-protection.(3)  A study 
published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical  Association 
(JAVMA) 
reported that of those observed, 33 percent of  declawed cats developed at 
least one behavioral problem and 80 percent had more  than one medical 
complication.(4) Declawed cats are also more likely to be  surrendered to 
shelters.(5)
 
Banned by Countries and Cities and Condemned by  Vets
Nearly two dozen countries—including England, Australia, and  Japan—ban or 
severely restrict declawing surgeries.(6) Catalonia, Spain,  prohibits 
declawing under its Law of Animal Protection.(7) A declawing ban was  passed in 
West 
Hollywood, California, where one City Council official explained,  “As 
guardians of animals, we have a relationship of respect, that the animal not  
be 
amputated or subjected to techniques that create harm.”(8) Following a  lawsuit 
against the city filed by the California Veterinary Medical  Association—which 
argued that West Hollywood had infringed on veterinarians’  professional rights—
a court struck down the ordinance. Nonetheless, on the heels  of that 
precedent-setting legislation, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors  adopted 
a 
resolution “condemning” declawing and urging veterinarians to drop the  
procedure.(9)
 
Many vets refuse to perform the surgery. Dr. Jennifer Conrad  wrote in JAVMA 
that “[r]outine declawing (unlike sterilization) is never  performed for the 
sake of the animal” and that as a veterinarian, she has “an  obligation to do 
what is best for the animals and not what is most convenient  for their owners.
”(10) Dr. Melinda Merck does not perform declawing surgeries at  her Georgia 
clinic, saying the process “is an amputation … and it’s awful.”(11)  The Cat 
Practice in New York City tells its clients, “If you love your cat …  don’t 
declaw!”(12)
 
Compassionate Alternatives
With a little  effort and patience, you can protect your furnishings and 
preserve your cat’s  claws at the same time. The following hints will help:
• Trim your cat’s  nails regularly. When the cat is relaxed and unafraid, 
gently press on the toes  until the claws extend. Use a pair of nail clippers 
and cut only the tip of the  nail, taking care not to damage the vein or 
“quick.”
 The nail hook is what tears  upholstery, so removing it virtually eliminates 
damage.
• Buy or build  two or more scra

Re: OT: Kitten Question

[OfALegend]

 
In a message dated 9/26/2007 6:26:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

you are  prescribing medicine without a license.


Wow.  It just doesn't end, does it?  For the record,  twelvehousecats, Susan 
has left the list, so that's one less jab she'll have to  deal with,  due in 
large part I'm sure to statements like that.  This  will likely be my last post 
to this group.  I find the attitudes and  behavior of the "senior" members of 
this list to be discouraging, at  best.   Toe amputation is cruelty to 
animals, period, and virtually  every major animal-rights group (including 
Siamese 
Rescue, ASPCA and PETA)  oppose it.  I will, for those of you that requested 
"scientific"  information, include one last post before I bow out of this 
group. 
 See it  at the bottom of the email, if you're really concerned/interested.  
You can  sugar coat it, and ignore the facts if it makes you feel better about 
yourself,  but the bottom line is its cruel, period.
 
For anyone who's interested, I have started another group on Yahoo.   The URL 
is here:

_http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineLeukemia_ 
(http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineLeukemia) 
 
Let me preface that by saying I am not advocating or asking anyone to leave  
this list. I am not saying the new group is a replacement for this group,  or 
that its any better than this group.  I am simply providing an  alternative 
list if anyone is interested in joining.  I'm sure some of you  might be 
interested in being on both lists.  For me, this was just too  much.  It was 
uncalled 
for.  Susan was one of the first people to  respond to my email when I 
originally joined this group scared out of my mind  and not knowing what to do, 
so 
yeah, I guess I took the attacks on her a bit  personally, and perhaps I 
shouldn't have, but whats done is done, and I don't  think it can be undone at 
this 
point. The ground rules for the new group is  relatively simple, and that is 
no one's opinion will be stifled or silenced, and  the group will be moderated. 
 Also, no one will be judged on the other list  for anything that was said or 
done here, so long as its not brought up  there.  As disgusted and 
disappointed as I am in everything that has  transpired here, I do wish all the 
cats 
(and people) on this list the  best.
 
Regards,
 
Michael Roberts



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Re: Autumn - Update

[Marylyn]

My holistic vet recommends Transfer Factor for Felines a lot.  It seems to 
help.







If you have men who will 
exclude any of God's creatures
from the shelter of 
compassion and pity, you will have men who
will deal likewise with 
their fellow man.
 St. 
Francis
- Original Message - 
From: "Lance Linimon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: Autumn - Update



Susan,

I'm very glad to read that Autumn is doing better. I've been thinking 
about her.


I hope that you'll look into homeopathic vets in your area. Ember's 
homeopathic vet has put her on Liquid DMG and Transfer Factor, and I 
believe these supplements have helped her to stay healthy.


Lance

On Sep 26, 2007, at 5:12 PM, Susan Ang wrote:

Thanks to everyone who responded. Autumn is about 11 weeks old. She  has 
really responded the treatments and has perked up considerably.  The 
Pedialyte definitely helped. Once we brought her home from vet,  I 
started her immediately on her antibiotics, but within the hour  she had 
vomiting and diarrhea. She was very weak and so I would  smear Nutri Cal 
on her paws and squirt Pedialyte in her mouth.  After every treatment she 
would perk up and the vomiting stopped  that night. She still had 
diarrhea the next morning but I was able  to get her to start eating the 
prescription food off my fingers.  Today she is playful, but thin. We're 
trying to fatten her up a bit  and get her energy levels back up. She's 
such a precious blessing,  we are very grateful that she turned around.


~Susan A.

Re: Autumn - Update

[Lance Linimon]

Susan,

I'm very glad to read that Autumn is doing better. I've been thinking  
about her.


I hope that you'll look into homeopathic vets in your area. Ember's  
homeopathic vet has put her on Liquid DMG and Transfer Factor, and I  
believe these supplements have helped her to stay healthy.


Lance

On Sep 26, 2007, at 5:12 PM, Susan Ang wrote:

Thanks to everyone who responded. Autumn is about 11 weeks old. She  
has really responded the treatments and has perked up considerably.  
The Pedialyte definitely helped. Once we brought her home from vet,  
I started her immediately on her antibiotics, but within the hour  
she had vomiting and diarrhea. She was very weak and so I would  
smear Nutri Cal on her paws and squirt Pedialyte in her mouth.  
After every treatment she would perk up and the vomiting stopped  
that night. She still had diarrhea the next morning but I was able  
to get her to start eating the prescription food off my fingers.  
Today she is playful, but thin. We're trying to fatten her up a bit  
and get her energy levels back up. She's such a precious blessing,  
we are very grateful that she turned around.


~Susan A.

Re: OT: Kitten Question

[MaryChristine]

you are prescribing medicine without a license.

On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Caroline,
>
> Have the little kittens had a fecal yet?
>
> If not, I recommend getting one performed.
>
> Coccidia, Giardia & spirokettes(?) are all possibilities.
>
> Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even
> w/one
> of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days
> even weeks later.
>
> Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their
> weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver
> problems.
> However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense.
>
> Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will
> help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture
> that
> they need.
>
> You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the
> necessary electrolytes that they are losing.
>
> Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration.
>
> Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck!
>
> signed,
> Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual...
> :)
>
>
>
> Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
> www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
> www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
> www.shadowcats.net
>   "As Cleopatra lay in state,
>Faithful Bast at her side did wait,
>Purring welcomes of soft applause,
>Ever guarding with sharpened claws."
>  Trajan Tennent
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question
>
>
> Hi Caroline,
>
> They may still be reacting to the antibiotics/amoxi.  It tends to wipe out
> the good gut bacteria with the baddies.  Try adding some probiotics to
> their food, or maybe try some plain yogurt with live cultures to help
> rebuild the good gut bacteria.
>
> Kat (Mew Jersey)
>
> On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
>
> > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:54:31 -0400
> > From: Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: OT: Kitten Question
> >
> >
> > I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the
> on-site
> > adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday.  He was bigger and
> > totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the
> > instigator and a bad influence on the other ones.  He was a  B/W little
> > Kittler, so it figures!
> > Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of
> diarrhea?  And
> > I don't know what the cause is?  I'm not doing anything different with
> > them.  They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic
> > dry kitten.  Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the
> > a.m., and the same in the evening.  When I leave for work, after they
> have
> > eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because
> > they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with
> some
> > food.  They are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their
> > waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am able to get
> > home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered
> "coop
> > cups" from Revival, so these should solve that problem).
> > On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and
> > Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now).  In the pm, I
> do
> > the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs
> each.
> > I just placed an order for "Just Born with Colostrum" and will be
> > switching them to that when I get it.
> > I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know
> > if they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure.
> > The smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one
> > that hasn't been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with
> me,
> > it's a little eating and growing machine!).  The biggest- Yoda- the
> first
> > one I took in that I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him
> > on the floor for adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs
> > 3.6 lbs and I've had him since Labor Day Weekend  He's a growing
> > monster.
> >
> > So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and
> > getting noticeably bigger.  They run and play like maniacs (they have so
> > MUCH energy!  My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and
> > supplements!) when I let them out of their crates twice a day for
> > play-time.  They are all well now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust
> > those URI's out of them, but I finally did it.  I stopped the
> Amoxicillin
> > well over a week ago, so it can't 

Re: Autumn - Update

[Sherry DeHaan]

Susan it is good to hear that sweet little Autumn is playful.I will keep you 
both in my thoughts.
  Sherry

Susan Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Thanks to everyone who responded. Autumn is about 11 weeks old. She has 
really responded the treatments and has perked up considerably. The Pedialyte 
definitely helped. Once we brought her home from vet, I started her immediately 
on her antibiotics, but within the hour she had vomiting and diarrhea. She was 
very weak and so I would smear Nutri Cal on her paws and squirt Pedialyte in 
her mouth. After every treatment she would perk up and the vomiting stopped 
that night. She still had diarrhea the next morning but I was able to get her 
to start eating the prescription food off my fingers. Today she is playful, but 
thin. We're trying to fatten her up a bit and get her energy levels back up. 
She's such a precious blessing, we are very grateful that she turned around. 

~Susan A.


   
-
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, 
photos & more. 

Autumn - Update

[Susan Ang]

Thanks to everyone who responded. Autumn is about 11 weeks old. She has
really responded the treatments and has perked up considerably. The
Pedialyte definitely helped. Once we brought her home from vet, I started
her immediately on her antibiotics, but within the hour she had vomiting and
diarrhea. She was very weak and so I would smear Nutri Cal on her paws and
squirt Pedialyte in her mouth. After every treatment she would perk up and
the vomiting stopped that night. She still had diarrhea the next morning but
I was able to get her to start eating the prescription food off my fingers.
Today she is playful, but thin. We're trying to fatten her up a bit and get
her energy levels back up. She's such a precious blessing, we are very
grateful that she turned around.

~Susan A.

Still here but very busy

[Kelly L]

I still have my Felv cat3 fiv and 40 others,,
I will adopt out to good owners who DO declawand will never be 
intimidated but those who do not approve, but that is theri opinion

Kelly
www.kellyscats.zoomshare.com

Re: offlist

[Joe O.]

H i all,
  It has been along time since i have read any post. I have save a few but 
i have  read all. What has happen to this group. I was thinking it was about 
cats & not poeple. I hope things get better becuse i would like to find more 
about FELINE LEUKEMIMA then poeple not getting along. I have belong to 
orther groups  like this & there was not one posts after a few weeks. Then 
there was no web site. You all have help get My self & my girlfriends 
thought loseing our beloved Sassy. I hope the find a cat like her someday 
again. But with out everyones help i would be lost. Hope everything get back 
to where it was. How i will get off my soap box. Hope everyone has a good 
night & a better tomorrow.


Joe O 



--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 16 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

Sorry

[Sherry DeHaan]

I just want to say that I am sorry if people were offended on the stupid 
argument that started here on Monday.I say stupid because we let it get out of 
hand.We are supposed to be adults and supportive of each other.I KNOW everybody 
has thier own opinions and that is fine.I was fine with certain peoples 
opinions,but to call the place that I respect and devote myself to a Hellhole 
was just plain un called for.And I am NOT trying to get any arguing going 
again.I have respected this list for almost 2 years now.Many have been here for 
me in my loss of Maizee(the beautiful felv baby that brought me to this 
list).Many have left because of the exact same thing that went on here.
  We are here to help one another NOT to force our opinions upon.Ok to speak 
them but not to attack because we dont agree.
  I am not a fighter.But when I am attacked it is hard not to.
  So I just want to say sorry for the mess that occured here.
   

   
-
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

RE: turning the other cheek

[Melissa Lind]

Caroline, I was wondering when/if you would weigh in on this situation that
doesn't seem to be going away. During some of the last fights that erupted,
I felt the same as you. I was going through so much in my own life, I didn't
have time to keep up with the drama. 

 

I was 28, I'm newly 29-celebrating my last year of the twenties but looking
forward to a new decade. I stayed on here because I have a lot to learn, and
I know that I'll most likely have another FeLV+ kitty someday. In fact, I
want to open a sanctuary for them when we build our own place.

 

Caroline, when you came on the site, I thought of myself when I joined in
April and the same with Megan. I learned so much so fast, and I remember the
whirlwind of days spent on the computer trying to find a place for Cassidy
while also learning as much as I could about FeLV. My vet suggested I PTS
Cassidy, but thank goodness I found this site and the resources I needed to
educate myself and others. I would hate to see this list dissolve. Although
you guys are not my friends, per se, I look forward to hearing your voices,
listening to your stories, and comforting those who are sad. It's nice to
come to a place where other cat lovers exist. I know there are probably
other lists I could join, but I'm already "pot committed" as they'd say in
poker. I've already spent so much time on here, I don't really want to join
another list. Maybe I'll have to though if this all continues. 

 

I don't have much to offer people concerning FeLV, but I can give my support
and my opinions (for what they're worth) and my prayers. I want to learn
more, but if all the veterans of this site are leaving, how will we newbies
learn?  I think that those here have more to offer than vets and articles
since you're the ones dealing with FeLV every day. 

 

Melissa

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:01 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT: turning the other cheek 

 

That's very well said Megan.  It pretty much covers everything I thought
about saying on this subject for a long time, but just never took the time
because I had more pressing matters, like kitten care.  I was here when you
joined Megan and I read your Olive posts thinking that you sounded just like
me back when I first joined in May/June due to Monkee's lymphosarcoma
diagnosis.  I think Melissa Lind and I thought were we the youngest (I think
Melissa is 28, but don't quote me) and I am 30, until you came along!  Now,
all three of us no longer have FelV cats but we continue to come to this
site to continue to learn more, help others with the knowledge we obtained
through our brief battles with Felv, and get general advice for our non-Felv
cats (because I have some now that Monkee is gone!). 
 
There were arguments and tiffs on this site before you joined Megan and most
of the time, I just felt that I didn't care because I felt I had no time for
that kind of stuff.  I was desperately trying to save Monkee through shear
force of will and I didn't have the psychic energy to get into, or really be
affected by the arguments.  Sometimes I read them, sometimes not.  And then
I got so immediately busy with fostering non-Felv cats that again I thought,
I don't have the time for this! 
 
I just don't think people should take things so personally or react so
dramatically.  It's wasted energy that could be put to better uses.  It
really upsets me to think that people would leave because of these
arguments...there is too much good to be done on this site.  There could be
someone out there right now who just got an Felv diagnosis and is freaking
out about it.  Furthermore, it could be an individual with a vet who gives
the "option" of putting the cat to sleep.  And picture this person really
not knowing much of anything about Felv, other than what the vet told them-
just the general, "oh it's highly contagious- kind of like getting an HIV Dx
in a person, they don't live as long, they're more susceptible to
cancers,...facing extremely high vet bills," (these are the exact things I
was told when Monkee tested positive over 4 years ago...and that was it).
Say this person thinks, "I need to research this so I can decide what to do"
so they google "Feline Leukemia" and eventually come across this site (like
I did) and think "wow, a list serve...oh my god, this is so helpful!"  After
they have read so many "educational" type articles online and
scientific-based veterinary articles that are hard to understand, they see
this as a possible god-send.  So they quickly join without even thinking
about it (like I did) and immediately start checking out the most recent
posts... and this is what they find?  Bickering and personal attacks and
counter-attacks and mud-slinging???  And worse yet, news that people having
decades of experience with FelV cats have "left the list" and are somewhere
out there in cyberspace where their knowledge an

Re: offlist

[Sherry DeHaan]

Hi Laurie,it is good to hear that Isabella is doing great!! :) I will keep you 
both in my thoughts.
  Sherry

laurieskatz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hello. Our feline leuk+ cat Isabella is doing great. I am still here to 
share what is working for us and in case..
Laurie
- Original Message - 
From: "Melissa Lind" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: offlist


> Megan, I'm in the same boat as you. I don't have an FeLV kitty anymore, 
> but
> I'm hanging around for a while to see if things improve. I'm glad you've
> stuck around too. I hope you are coping with the loss of sweet Olive. I
> forgot if you had any other kitties or had taken any in since then?
>
> Melissa
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan Heikkinen
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:02 PM
> To: felvtalk
> Subject: RE: offlist
>
> Most people have left? That's pathetic. Everyone has their opinions, they
> can
> be rude, they can get upset, blah blah blah. But aren't we all adults 
> here?
> Hell, I'm probably the youngest person here, at twenty, and I'm finding 
> this
>
> all rather ridiculous.
>
> Everyone here was really supportive when I was dealing with Olive's
> sickness,
> but it kind of upsets me that even more people could have helped, that 
> there
>
> were people who used to be on here who might have had even better
> suggestions
> than the great ones that I received. Yeah, there probably wasn't much more 
> I
>
> could've done for Olive, regardless of what people could tell me. But the
> thing is, it's SCARY that people have left over stupid bickering, when we
> NEED
> those people to help us with our sick babies. The more people there are, 
> the
>
> more experience there is, and therefore more information is available. 
> This
> list has made a difference for many people, but it could make a difference
> for
> so many more. Honestly, the fact that people have left simply because they
> couldn't get along with a couple of other people disgusts me. I guess if
> someone REALLY needs to leave, that's one thing. But over some petty
> bickering? Come on.
>
> I'm sure someone will find something to bitch at me for, but you know 
> what?
> I
> don't care. I'm mature enough to just ignore it. And it's funny, because I
> don't even have a FeLV+ kitty anymore, yet I'm still on here. Really, the
> arguing doesn't bother me too much, aside from filling up my inbox. What
> bothers me is that people are leaving because of it. THIS IS FOR OUR CATS.
> THIS IS TO SAVE THEIR LIVES. I'm just thankful that this list exists, and 
> it
>
> would sadden me to see it dwindle away.
>
> -Megan
>
>>= Original Message From Kelley Saveika =
>>Nobody leave? Most people have already left.
>>
>>It is really sad.
>>
>>On 9/26/07, Caroline Kaufmann wrote:
>>>
>>> Nobody leave! This getting stupid! Glenda, don't leave...
>>> -Caroline
>>>
>>> > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:50:53 -0700
>>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > Subject: Fwd: Re: offlist
>>> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --- glenda Goodman wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
>>> > > From: glenda Goodman 
>>> > > Subject: Re: offlist
>>> > > To: catatonya 
>>> > >
>>> > > Well, Tonya,
>>> > > I guess I have been put in my place? ( I have been
>>> > > judged by the best.) I humbly apologize to all here
>>> > > and elsewhere, whom I have upset with my opinions,
>>> > > and
>>> > > infuriated with my stupidity. Having been so
>>> > > enlightened by your revelations here, think it
>>> > > best,
>>> > > I exit this list. I certainly, being of "grade 1"
>>> > > like
>>> > > Susan, could not possible contribute anything to
>>> > > this
>>> > > list anyway. Between you and I Tonya, that is the
>>> > > best compliment I have had for a long time,
>>> > > classified
>>> > > in Susan's league...whew!
>>> > > Eventually, this list will be of one opinion and
>>> > > all
>>> > > will be able to get along ,because more than likely,
>>> > > there will only be one or two left to share
>>> > > information, give support, and so on.
>>> > > Peace, love and joy to all,
>>> > > Glenda in Nebraska
>>> > > --- catatonya wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > Susan is in grade 1 with you. You are both new to
>>> > > > the list and posting your ideas as gospel when
>>> > > > others of us have been dealing with felv for
>>> > > YEARS.
>>> > > > It is very disruptive to the list. And I hate to
>>> > > > say this because I see how what happened with your
>>> > > > trapped cat being killed happened. But a lot of
>>> > > > people left the list because of you taking that
>>> > > cat
>>> > > > to animal control where it was put down. People
>>> > > who
>>> > > > have been doing this for YEARS know you do NOT
>>> > > take
>>> > > > cats to animal shelters unless you WANT them put
>>> > > > down. I defended you as a newbie to people who
>>> > > have
>>> > > > left the list, but many of th

RE: offlist

[Melissa Lind]

That's great to hear that you and Isabella are doing well! I'm glad to hear
other voices out there! It's encouraging to know that not everyone has left.

Melissa

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of laurieskatz
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:50 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: offlist

Hello. Our feline leuk+ cat Isabella is doing great. I am still here to 
share what is working for us and in case..
Laurie
- Original Message - 
From: "Melissa Lind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: offlist


> Megan, I'm in the same boat as you. I don't have an FeLV kitty anymore, 
> but
> I'm hanging around for a while to see if things improve. I'm glad you've
> stuck around too. I hope you are coping with the loss of sweet Olive. I
> forgot if you had any other kitties or had taken any in since then?
>
> Melissa
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan Heikkinen
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:02 PM
> To: felvtalk
> Subject: RE: offlist
>
> Most people have left? That's pathetic. Everyone has their opinions, they
> can
> be rude, they can get upset, blah blah blah. But aren't we all adults 
> here?
> Hell, I'm probably the youngest person here, at twenty, and I'm finding 
> this
>
> all rather ridiculous.
>
> Everyone here was really supportive when I was dealing with Olive's
> sickness,
> but it kind of upsets me that even more people could have helped, that 
> there
>
> were people who used to be on here who might have had even better
> suggestions
> than the great ones that I received. Yeah, there probably wasn't much more

> I
>
> could've done for Olive, regardless of what people could tell me. But the
> thing is, it's SCARY that people have left over stupid bickering, when we
> NEED
> those people to help us with our sick babies. The more people there are, 
> the
>
> more experience there is, and therefore more information is available. 
> This
> list has made a difference for many people, but it could make a difference
> for
> so many more. Honestly, the fact that people have left simply because they
> couldn't get along with a couple of other people disgusts me. I guess if
> someone REALLY needs to leave, that's one thing. But over some petty
> bickering? Come on.
>
> I'm sure someone will find something to bitch at me for, but you know 
> what?
> I
> don't care. I'm mature enough to just ignore it. And it's funny, because I
> don't even have a FeLV+ kitty anymore, yet I'm still on here. Really, the
> arguing doesn't bother me too much, aside from filling up my inbox. What
> bothers me is that people are leaving because of it. THIS IS FOR OUR CATS.
> THIS IS TO SAVE THEIR LIVES. I'm just thankful that this list exists, and 
> it
>
> would sadden me to see it dwindle away.
>
> -Megan
>
>>= Original Message From Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> =
>>Nobody leave?  Most people have already left.
>>
>>It is really sad.
>>
>>On 9/26/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Nobody leave!  This getting stupid!  Glenda, don't leave...
>>> -Caroline
>>>
>>> > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:50:53 -0700
>>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > Subject: Fwd: Re: offlist
>>> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --- glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
>>> > > From: glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> > > Subject: Re: offlist
>>> > > To: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> > >
>>> > > Well, Tonya,
>>> > > I guess I have been put in my place? ( I have been
>>> > > judged by the best.) I humbly apologize to all here
>>> > > and elsewhere, whom I have upset with my opinions,
>>> > > and
>>> > > infuriated with my stupidity. Having been so
>>> > > enlightened by your revelations here, think it
>>> > > best,
>>> > > I exit this list. I certainly, being of "grade 1"
>>> > > like
>>> > > Susan, could not possible contribute anything to
>>> > > this
>>> > > list anyway. Between you and I Tonya, that is the
>>> > > best compliment I have had for a long time,
>>> > > classified
>>> > > in Susan's league...whew!
>>> > > Eventually, this list will be of one opinion and
>>> > > all
>>> > > will be able to get along ,because more than likely,
>>> > > there will only be one or two left to share
>>> > > information, give support, and so on.
>>> > > Peace, love and joy to all,
>>> > > Glenda in Nebraska
>>> > > --- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > Susan is in grade 1 with you. You are both new to
>>> > > > the list and posting your ideas as gospel when
>>> > > > others of us have been dealing with felv for
>>> > > YEARS.
>>> > > > It is very disruptive to the list. And I hate to
>>> > > > say this because I see how what happened with your
>>> > > > trapped cat being killed happened. But a lot of
>>> > > > people left the l

RE: offlist

[MacKenzie, Kerry N.]

For the first 3 years I was on this list--December 2003--2006--it was
the most informative and supportive group one could ever hope to come
across. It came from "the top": the founder James, co-founders including
Belinda, and several exceptionally well-informed, supportive, generous,
mature individuals who worked really, really, really hard to keep the
support and information flowing to existing and new members. It really
was a marvellous, unique group. Then a mean comment was made by one
member, then another. And the meanness grew and eventually infected the
list. And one by one, many of the stalwarts left. 
Kelly is right---it's no one's job. And everyone is human. The fact of
the matter is that due to meanness and nastiness the list lost some
truly wonderful people and it's a poorer group as a result. It has been
very sad to watch. 
Kerry M.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:44 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: offlist

On 9/26/07, Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Most people have left? That's pathetic. Everyone has their opinions,
they can
> be rude, they can get upset, blah blah blah. But aren't we all adults
here?
> Hell, I'm probably the youngest person here, at twenty, and I'm
finding this
> all rather ridiculous.
>
> Everyone here was really supportive when I was dealing with Olive's
sickness,
> but it kind of upsets me that even more people could have helped, that
there
> were people who used to be on here who might have had even better
suggestions
> than the great ones that I received. Yeah, there probably wasn't much
more I
> could've done for Olive, regardless of what people could tell me. But
the
> thing is, it's SCARY that people have left over stupid bickering, when
we NEED
> those people to help us with our sick babies.

But this isn't anyone's *job*.  Yes, there has been talk on other
lists about what will happen to the newbies here without the benefit
of many of the people who have left.  But if someone finds it a toxic
environment I'm not going to tell them it is their responsibility to
be somewhere they find unpleasant.  Most of us work in rescue, or have
multiple sick cats, etc and have a very low tolerance for the stuff
that has been going on here lately.


 > >--
> >Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
> >
> >http://www.rescuties.org
> >
> >Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
> >
> >http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
> >
> >Please help George!
> >
> >http://rescuties.chipin.com/george
> >
> >I GoodSearch for Rescuties.
> >
> >Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
> >Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
>
>
>
>


-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
_
Effective September 1, 2007, we have changed our name to Mayer Brown LLP.
 
IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any advice expressed above as to tax matters was 
neither written nor intended by the sender or Mayer Brown LLP to be used and 
cannot be used by any taxpayer for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that 
may be imposed under U.S. tax law. If any person uses or refers to any such tax 
advice in promoting, marketing or recommending a partnership or other entity, 
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OT: turning the other cheek

[Caroline Kaufmann]

That's very well said Megan.  It pretty much covers everything I thought about 
saying on this subject for a long time, but just never took the time because I 
had more pressing matters, like kitten care.  I was here when you joined Megan 
and I read your Olive posts thinking that you sounded just like me back when I 
first joined in May/June due to Monkee's lymphosarcoma diagnosis.  I think 
Melissa Lind and I thought were we the youngest (I think Melissa is 28, but 
don't quote me) and I am 30, until you came along!  Now, all three of us no 
longer have FelV cats but we continue to come to this site to continue to learn 
more, help others with the knowledge we obtained through our brief battles with 
Felv, and get general advice for our non-Felv cats (because I have some now 
that Monkee is gone!). 
 
There were arguments and tiffs on this site before you joined Megan and most of 
the time, I just felt that I didn't care because I felt I had no time for that 
kind of stuff.  I was desperately trying to save Monkee through shear force of 
will and I didn't have the psychic energy to get into, or really be affected by 
the arguments.  Sometimes I read them, sometimes not.  And then I got so 
immediately busy with fostering non-Felv cats that again I thought, I don't 
have the time for this! 
 
I just don't think people should take things so personally or react so 
dramatically.  It's wasted energy that could be put to better uses.  It really 
upsets me to think that people would leave because of these arguments...there 
is too much good to be done on this site.  There could be someone out there 
right now who just got an Felv diagnosis and is freaking out about it.  
Furthermore, it could be an individual with a vet who gives the "option" of 
putting the cat to sleep.  And picture this person really not knowing much of 
anything about Felv, other than what the vet told them- just the general, "oh 
it's highly contagious- kind of like getting an HIV Dx in a person, they don't 
live as long, they're more susceptible to cancers,...facing extremely high vet 
bills," (these are the exact things I was told when Monkee tested positive over 
4 years ago...and that was it).  Say this person thinks, "I need to research 
this so I can decide what to do" so they google "Feline Leukemia" and 
eventually come across this site (like I did) and think "wow, a list serve...oh 
my god, this is so helpful!"  After they have read so many "educational" type 
articles online and scientific-based veterinary articles that are hard to 
understand, they see this as a possible god-send.  So they quickly join without 
even thinking about it (like I did) and immediately start checking out the most 
recent posts... and this is what they find?  Bickering and personal attacks and 
counter-attacks and mud-slinging???  And worse yet, news that people having 
decades of experience with FelV cats have "left the list" and are somewhere out 
there in cyberspace where their knowledge and information can not easily be 
tapped into?  That's very distressing to think about.  We need to all just 
learn to "turn the other cheek" for the greater good right now and forget about 
past insults, etc. that have occurred between members who have been here a long 
time and remember that we aren't just here for ourselves...we are here for The 
Newbies tooand we need to stop scaring new people away.  
 
-Caroline  > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:01:45 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> Subject: RE: offlist> > Most people have left? 
That's pathetic. Everyone has their opinions, they can > be rude, they can get 
upset, blah blah blah. But aren't we all adults here? > Hell, I'm probably the 
youngest person here, at twenty, and I'm finding this > all rather ridiculous.> 
> Everyone here was really supportive when I was dealing with Olive's sickness, 
> but it kind of upsets me that even more people could have helped, that there 
> were people who used to be on here who might have had even better suggestions 
> than the great ones that I received. Yeah, there probably wasn't much more I 
> could've done for Olive, regardless of what people could tell me. But the > 
thing is, it's SCARY that people have left over stupid bickering, when we NEED 
> those people to help us with our sick babies. The more people there are, the 
> more experience there is, and therefore more information is available. This > 
list has made a difference for many people, but it could make a difference for 
> so many more. Honestly, the fact that people have left simply because they > 
couldn't get along with a couple of other people disgusts me. I guess if > 
someone REALLY needs to leave, that's one thing. But over some petty > 
bickering? Come on.> > I'm sure someone will find something to bitch at me for, 
but you know what? I > don't care. I'm mature enough to just ignore it. And 
it's funny, because I > don't even have a FeLV+ kitty anymore, yet I'm sti

Re: offlist

[laurieskatz]

Hello. Our feline leuk+ cat Isabella is doing great. I am still here to 
share what is working for us and in case..

Laurie
- Original Message - 
From: "Melissa Lind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: offlist


Megan, I'm in the same boat as you. I don't have an FeLV kitty anymore, 
but

I'm hanging around for a while to see if things improve. I'm glad you've
stuck around too. I hope you are coping with the loss of sweet Olive. I
forgot if you had any other kitties or had taken any in since then?

Melissa

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan Heikkinen
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:02 PM
To: felvtalk
Subject: RE: offlist

Most people have left? That's pathetic. Everyone has their opinions, they
can
be rude, they can get upset, blah blah blah. But aren't we all adults 
here?
Hell, I'm probably the youngest person here, at twenty, and I'm finding 
this


all rather ridiculous.

Everyone here was really supportive when I was dealing with Olive's
sickness,
but it kind of upsets me that even more people could have helped, that 
there


were people who used to be on here who might have had even better
suggestions
than the great ones that I received. Yeah, there probably wasn't much more 
I


could've done for Olive, regardless of what people could tell me. But the
thing is, it's SCARY that people have left over stupid bickering, when we
NEED
those people to help us with our sick babies. The more people there are, 
the


more experience there is, and therefore more information is available. 
This

list has made a difference for many people, but it could make a difference
for
so many more. Honestly, the fact that people have left simply because they
couldn't get along with a couple of other people disgusts me. I guess if
someone REALLY needs to leave, that's one thing. But over some petty
bickering? Come on.

I'm sure someone will find something to bitch at me for, but you know 
what?

I
don't care. I'm mature enough to just ignore it. And it's funny, because I
don't even have a FeLV+ kitty anymore, yet I'm still on here. Really, the
arguing doesn't bother me too much, aside from filling up my inbox. What
bothers me is that people are leaving because of it. THIS IS FOR OUR CATS.
THIS IS TO SAVE THEIR LIVES. I'm just thankful that this list exists, and 
it


would sadden me to see it dwindle away.

-Megan


= Original Message From Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> =
Nobody leave?  Most people have already left.

It is really sad.

On 9/26/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Nobody leave!  This getting stupid!  Glenda, don't leave...
-Caroline

> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:50:53 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Fwd: Re: offlist
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

>
>
> --- glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: offlist
> > To: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > Well, Tonya,
> > I guess I have been put in my place? ( I have been
> > judged by the best.) I humbly apologize to all here
> > and elsewhere, whom I have upset with my opinions,
> > and
> > infuriated with my stupidity. Having been so
> > enlightened by your revelations here, think it
> > best,
> > I exit this list. I certainly, being of "grade 1"
> > like
> > Susan, could not possible contribute anything to
> > this
> > list anyway. Between you and I Tonya, that is the
> > best compliment I have had for a long time,
> > classified
> > in Susan's league...whew!
> > Eventually, this list will be of one opinion and
> > all
> > will be able to get along ,because more than likely,
> > there will only be one or two left to share
> > information, give support, and so on.
> > Peace, love and joy to all,
> > Glenda in Nebraska
> > --- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Susan is in grade 1 with you. You are both new to
> > > the list and posting your ideas as gospel when
> > > others of us have been dealing with felv for
> > YEARS.
> > > It is very disruptive to the list. And I hate to
> > > say this because I see how what happened with your
> > > trapped cat being killed happened. But a lot of
> > > people left the list because of you taking that
> > cat
> > > to animal control where it was put down. People
> > who
> > > have been doing this for YEARS know you do NOT
> > take
> > > cats to animal shelters unless you WANT them put
> > > down. I defended you as a newbie to people who
> > have
> > > left the list, but many of them are still upset
> > > about what happened. They are upset that you
> > didn't
> > > know better. When you sound off so harshly to
> > > Sherry and others acting as an 'expert' it doesn't
> > > help.
> > > tonya
> > > t
> > >
> > > glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > So many of the people here put their heart and
> > > soul
> > > and every spare m

Re: offlist

[Kelley Saveika]

On 9/26/07, Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Most people have left? That's pathetic. Everyone has their opinions, they can
> be rude, they can get upset, blah blah blah. But aren't we all adults here?
> Hell, I'm probably the youngest person here, at twenty, and I'm finding this
> all rather ridiculous.
>
> Everyone here was really supportive when I was dealing with Olive's sickness,
> but it kind of upsets me that even more people could have helped, that there
> were people who used to be on here who might have had even better suggestions
> than the great ones that I received. Yeah, there probably wasn't much more I
> could've done for Olive, regardless of what people could tell me. But the
> thing is, it's SCARY that people have left over stupid bickering, when we NEED
> those people to help us with our sick babies.

But this isn't anyone's *job*.  Yes, there has been talk on other
lists about what will happen to the newbies here without the benefit
of many of the people who have left.  But if someone finds it a toxic
environment I'm not going to tell them it is their responsibility to
be somewhere they find unpleasant.  Most of us work in rescue, or have
multiple sick cats, etc and have a very low tolerance for the stuff
that has been going on here lately.


 > >--
> >Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.
> >
> >http://www.rescuties.org
> >
> >Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!
> >
> >http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20
> >
> >Please help George!
> >
> >http://rescuties.chipin.com/george
> >
> >I GoodSearch for Rescuties.
> >
> >Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
> >Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
>
>
>
>


-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life!

http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20

Please help George!

http://rescuties.chipin.com/george

I GoodSearch for Rescuties.

Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the
Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!

RE: offlist

[Melissa Lind]

Megan, I'm in the same boat as you. I don't have an FeLV kitty anymore, but
I'm hanging around for a while to see if things improve. I'm glad you've
stuck around too. I hope you are coping with the loss of sweet Olive. I
forgot if you had any other kitties or had taken any in since then?

Melissa

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan Heikkinen
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:02 PM
To: felvtalk
Subject: RE: offlist

Most people have left? That's pathetic. Everyone has their opinions, they
can 
be rude, they can get upset, blah blah blah. But aren't we all adults here? 
Hell, I'm probably the youngest person here, at twenty, and I'm finding this

all rather ridiculous.

Everyone here was really supportive when I was dealing with Olive's
sickness, 
but it kind of upsets me that even more people could have helped, that there

were people who used to be on here who might have had even better
suggestions 
than the great ones that I received. Yeah, there probably wasn't much more I

could've done for Olive, regardless of what people could tell me. But the 
thing is, it's SCARY that people have left over stupid bickering, when we
NEED 
those people to help us with our sick babies. The more people there are, the

more experience there is, and therefore more information is available. This 
list has made a difference for many people, but it could make a difference
for 
so many more. Honestly, the fact that people have left simply because they 
couldn't get along with a couple of other people disgusts me. I guess if 
someone REALLY needs to leave, that's one thing. But over some petty 
bickering? Come on.

I'm sure someone will find something to bitch at me for, but you know what?
I 
don't care. I'm mature enough to just ignore it. And it's funny, because I 
don't even have a FeLV+ kitty anymore, yet I'm still on here. Really, the 
arguing doesn't bother me too much, aside from filling up my inbox. What 
bothers me is that people are leaving because of it. THIS IS FOR OUR CATS. 
THIS IS TO SAVE THEIR LIVES. I'm just thankful that this list exists, and it

would sadden me to see it dwindle away.

-Megan

>= Original Message From Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> =
>Nobody leave?  Most people have already left.
>
>It is really sad.
>
>On 9/26/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Nobody leave!  This getting stupid!  Glenda, don't leave...
>> -Caroline
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:50:53 -0700
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Subject: Fwd: Re: offlist
>> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > --- glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > From: glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > Subject: Re: offlist
>> > > To: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > >
>> > > Well, Tonya,
>> > > I guess I have been put in my place? ( I have been
>> > > judged by the best.) I humbly apologize to all here
>> > > and elsewhere, whom I have upset with my opinions,
>> > > and
>> > > infuriated with my stupidity. Having been so
>> > > enlightened by your revelations here, think it
>> > > best,
>> > > I exit this list. I certainly, being of "grade 1"
>> > > like
>> > > Susan, could not possible contribute anything to
>> > > this
>> > > list anyway. Between you and I Tonya, that is the
>> > > best compliment I have had for a long time,
>> > > classified
>> > > in Susan's league...whew!
>> > > Eventually, this list will be of one opinion and
>> > > all
>> > > will be able to get along ,because more than likely,
>> > > there will only be one or two left to share
>> > > information, give support, and so on.
>> > > Peace, love and joy to all,
>> > > Glenda in Nebraska
>> > > --- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Susan is in grade 1 with you. You are both new to
>> > > > the list and posting your ideas as gospel when
>> > > > others of us have been dealing with felv for
>> > > YEARS.
>> > > > It is very disruptive to the list. And I hate to
>> > > > say this because I see how what happened with your
>> > > > trapped cat being killed happened. But a lot of
>> > > > people left the list because of you taking that
>> > > cat
>> > > > to animal control where it was put down. People
>> > > who
>> > > > have been doing this for YEARS know you do NOT
>> > > take
>> > > > cats to animal shelters unless you WANT them put
>> > > > down. I defended you as a newbie to people who
>> > > have
>> > > > left the list, but many of them are still upset
>> > > > about what happened. They are upset that you
>> > > didn't
>> > > > know better. When you sound off so harshly to
>> > > > Sherry and others acting as an 'expert' it doesn't
>> > > > help.
>> > > > tonya
>> > > > t
>> > > >
>> > > > glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > > So many of the people here put their heart and
>> > > > soul
>> > > > and every spare minute possible into helping and
>> > > > learning about 

RE: offlist

[Megan Heikkinen]

Most people have left? That's pathetic. Everyone has their opinions, they can 
be rude, they can get upset, blah blah blah. But aren't we all adults here? 
Hell, I'm probably the youngest person here, at twenty, and I'm finding this 
all rather ridiculous.

Everyone here was really supportive when I was dealing with Olive's sickness, 
but it kind of upsets me that even more people could have helped, that there 
were people who used to be on here who might have had even better suggestions 
than the great ones that I received. Yeah, there probably wasn't much more I 
could've done for Olive, regardless of what people could tell me. But the 
thing is, it's SCARY that people have left over stupid bickering, when we NEED 
those people to help us with our sick babies. The more people there are, the 
more experience there is, and therefore more information is available. This 
list has made a difference for many people, but it could make a difference for 
so many more. Honestly, the fact that people have left simply because they 
couldn't get along with a couple of other people disgusts me. I guess if 
someone REALLY needs to leave, that's one thing. But over some petty 
bickering? Come on.

I'm sure someone will find something to bitch at me for, but you know what? I 
don't care. I'm mature enough to just ignore it. And it's funny, because I 
don't even have a FeLV+ kitty anymore, yet I'm still on here. Really, the 
arguing doesn't bother me too much, aside from filling up my inbox. What 
bothers me is that people are leaving because of it. THIS IS FOR OUR CATS. 
THIS IS TO SAVE THEIR LIVES. I'm just thankful that this list exists, and it 
would sadden me to see it dwindle away.

-Megan

>= Original Message From Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> =
>Nobody leave?  Most people have already left.
>
>It is really sad.
>
>On 9/26/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Nobody leave!  This getting stupid!  Glenda, don't leave...
>> -Caroline
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:50:53 -0700
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > Subject: Fwd: Re: offlist
>> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > --- glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > From: glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > Subject: Re: offlist
>> > > To: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > >
>> > > Well, Tonya,
>> > > I guess I have been put in my place? ( I have been
>> > > judged by the best.) I humbly apologize to all here
>> > > and elsewhere, whom I have upset with my opinions,
>> > > and
>> > > infuriated with my stupidity. Having been so
>> > > enlightened by your revelations here, think it
>> > > best,
>> > > I exit this list. I certainly, being of "grade 1"
>> > > like
>> > > Susan, could not possible contribute anything to
>> > > this
>> > > list anyway. Between you and I Tonya, that is the
>> > > best compliment I have had for a long time,
>> > > classified
>> > > in Susan's league...whew!
>> > > Eventually, this list will be of one opinion and
>> > > all
>> > > will be able to get along ,because more than likely,
>> > > there will only be one or two left to share
>> > > information, give support, and so on.
>> > > Peace, love and joy to all,
>> > > Glenda in Nebraska
>> > > --- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Susan is in grade 1 with you. You are both new to
>> > > > the list and posting your ideas as gospel when
>> > > > others of us have been dealing with felv for
>> > > YEARS.
>> > > > It is very disruptive to the list. And I hate to
>> > > > say this because I see how what happened with your
>> > > > trapped cat being killed happened. But a lot of
>> > > > people left the list because of you taking that
>> > > cat
>> > > > to animal control where it was put down. People
>> > > who
>> > > > have been doing this for YEARS know you do NOT
>> > > take
>> > > > cats to animal shelters unless you WANT them put
>> > > > down. I defended you as a newbie to people who
>> > > have
>> > > > left the list, but many of them are still upset
>> > > > about what happened. They are upset that you
>> > > didn't
>> > > > know better. When you sound off so harshly to
>> > > > Sherry and others acting as an 'expert' it doesn't
>> > > > help.
>> > > > tonya
>> > > > t
>> > > >
>> > > > glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > > So many of the people here put their heart and
>> > > > soul
>> > > > and every spare minute possible into helping and
>> > > > learning about cats/animals.
>> > > > There are certain basic rules of common sense that
>> > > > even I have learned in the last few months when it
>> > > > comes to dealing with these two diseases: FeLV and
>> > > > FIV.
>> > > > There are people here that have taught me a lot
>> > > and
>> > > > who I depend on to answer questions that I might
>> > > > have
>> > > > or that might come up. There are people here with
>> > > > wonderful hearts that are just here learning the
>> > > > basics. I 

Re: offlist

[Kelley Saveika]

Nobody leave?  Most people have already left.

It is really sad.

On 9/26/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Nobody leave!  This getting stupid!  Glenda, don't leave...
> -Caroline
>
> > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:50:53 -0700
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Fwd: Re: offlist
> > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>
> >
> >
> > --- glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
> > > From: glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Subject: Re: offlist
> > > To: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > Well, Tonya,
> > > I guess I have been put in my place? ( I have been
> > > judged by the best.) I humbly apologize to all here
> > > and elsewhere, whom I have upset with my opinions,
> > > and
> > > infuriated with my stupidity. Having been so
> > > enlightened by your revelations here, think it
> > > best,
> > > I exit this list. I certainly, being of "grade 1"
> > > like
> > > Susan, could not possible contribute anything to
> > > this
> > > list anyway. Between you and I Tonya, that is the
> > > best compliment I have had for a long time,
> > > classified
> > > in Susan's league...whew!
> > > Eventually, this list will be of one opinion and
> > > all
> > > will be able to get along ,because more than likely,
> > > there will only be one or two left to share
> > > information, give support, and so on.
> > > Peace, love and joy to all,
> > > Glenda in Nebraska
> > > --- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Susan is in grade 1 with you. You are both new to
> > > > the list and posting your ideas as gospel when
> > > > others of us have been dealing with felv for
> > > YEARS.
> > > > It is very disruptive to the list. And I hate to
> > > > say this because I see how what happened with your
> > > > trapped cat being killed happened. But a lot of
> > > > people left the list because of you taking that
> > > cat
> > > > to animal control where it was put down. People
> > > who
> > > > have been doing this for YEARS know you do NOT
> > > take
> > > > cats to animal shelters unless you WANT them put
> > > > down. I defended you as a newbie to people who
> > > have
> > > > left the list, but many of them are still upset
> > > > about what happened. They are upset that you
> > > didn't
> > > > know better. When you sound off so harshly to
> > > > Sherry and others acting as an 'expert' it doesn't
> > > > help.
> > > > tonya
> > > > t
> > > >
> > > > glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > So many of the people here put their heart and
> > > > soul
> > > > and every spare minute possible into helping and
> > > > learning about cats/animals.
> > > > There are certain basic rules of common sense that
> > > > even I have learned in the last few months when it
> > > > comes to dealing with these two diseases: FeLV and
> > > > FIV.
> > > > There are people here that have taught me a lot
> > > and
> > > > who I depend on to answer questions that I might
> > > > have
> > > > or that might come up. There are people here with
> > > > wonderful hearts that are just here learning the
> > > > basics. I sincerely care for them all. We should
> > > > NEVER
> > > > attack each other. WE ARE ALL ONE.
> > > > If I were to tell you what grade I am in, as in,
> > > > elementary school, as compared to Susan, for
> > > > example,
> > > > I'd say I'm a mere first grader and I'd imagine
> > > > Susan
> > > > might be in high school... light years ahead of
> > > me,
> > > > but here, we shall call it high school compared to
> > > > first grade... high school for knowledge in the
> > > > diseases we are dealing with and high school for
> > > > experience dealing with animal rescues and
> > > shelters
> > > > and the different ways of how they do what they
> > > do.
> > > > I
> > > > completely respect Susan's take on things and I
> > > > trust
> > > > her experience, admire her spirit...she says it
> > > like
> > > > it is. I flower things up , but it is all the
> > > > same...no matter how it is said.
> > > > It is important to remember, IT IS ALL FOR THE
> > > > ANIMALS. WE ARE SECONDARY.
> > > > If we could sit, as like on a Board of Directors
> > > > meeting, we could discuss what would be best for
> > > the
> > > > animals and maybe compromise somehow and attempt
> > > to
> > > > see each other's points.
> > > > I have tried to keep myself in check, but it has
> > > > been
> > > > difficult when I am seeing everything I have so
> > > far
> > > > learned here, being turned upside down by this
> > > > rescue/shelter or that? I have so far dealt with a
> > > > shelter that sent me a FeLV+ cat and butted heads
> > > > with
> > > > a shelter in Wisconsin with the everyone must be
> > > > declawed thing going on... Right now the shelter
> > > of
> > > > discussion is where Sherry gives her heart and
> > > soul.
> > > > I
> > > > try so hard to see all sides, but there are times
> > > I
> > > > just cannot and if you were to ask me, if after I
> > > 

RE: offlist

[Caroline Kaufmann]

Nobody leave!  This getting stupid!  Glenda, don't leave...
-Caroline
> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:50:53 -0700> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Fwd: 
> Re: offlist> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> > > --- glenda Goodman <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> wrote:> > > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT)> > From: 
> glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > Subject: Re: offlist> > To: catatonya 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > Well, Tonya,> > I guess I have been put in my 
> place? ( I have been> > judged by the best.) I humbly apologize to all here> 
> > and elsewhere, whom I have upset with my opinions,> > and> > infuriated 
> with my stupidity. Having been so> > enlightened by your revelations here, 
> think it> > best,> > I exit this list. I certainly, being of "grade 1"> > 
> like> > Susan, could not possible contribute anything to> > this> > list 
> anyway. Between you and I Tonya, that is the> > best compliment I have had 
> for a long time,> > classified> > in Susan's league...whew!> > Eventually, 
> this list will be of one opinion and> > all> > will be able to get along 
> ,because more than likely,> > there will only be one or two left to share> > 
> information, give support, and so on. > > Peace, love and joy to all, > > 
> Glenda in Nebraska > > --- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > > > > 
> Susan is in grade 1 with you. You are both new to> > > the list and posting 
> your ideas as gospel when> > > others of us have been dealing with felv for> 
> > YEARS. > > > It is very disruptive to the list. And I hate to> > > say this 
> because I see how what happened with your> > > trapped cat being killed 
> happened. But a lot of> > > people left the list because of you taking that> 
> > cat> > > to animal control where it was put down. People> > who> > > have 
> been doing this for YEARS know you do NOT> > take> > > cats to animal 
> shelters unless you WANT them put> > > down. I defended you as a newbie to 
> people who> > have> > > left the list, but many of them are still upset> > > 
> about what happened. They are upset that you> > didn't> > > know better. When 
> you sound off so harshly to> > > Sherry and others acting as an 'expert' it 
> doesn't> > > help.> > > tonya> > > t> > > > > > glenda Goodman <[EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]> wrote:> > > So many of the people here put their heart and> > > 
> soul> > > and every spare minute possible into helping and> > > learning 
> about cats/animals. > > > There are certain basic rules of common sense that> 
> > > even I have learned in the last few months when it> > > comes to dealing 
> with these two diseases: FeLV and> > > FIV. > > > There are people here that 
> have taught me a lot> > and> > > who I depend on to answer questions that I 
> might> > > have> > > or that might come up. There are people here with> > > 
> wonderful hearts that are just here learning the> > > basics. I sincerely 
> care for them all. We should> > > NEVER> > > attack each other. WE ARE ALL 
> ONE.> > > If I were to tell you what grade I am in, as in, > > > elementary 
> school, as compared to Susan, for> > > example,> > > I'd say I'm a mere first 
> grader and I'd imagine> > > Susan> > > might be in high school... light years 
> ahead of> > me,> > > but here, we shall call it high school compared to> > > 
> first grade... high school for knowledge in the> > > diseases we are dealing 
> with and high school for> > > experience dealing with animal rescues and> > 
> shelters > > > and the different ways of how they do what they> > do.> > > I> 
> > > completely respect Susan's take on things and I> > > trust> > > her 
> experience, admire her spirit...she says it> > like> > > it is. I flower 
> things up , but it is all the> > > same...no matter how it is said. > > > It 
> is important to remember, IT IS ALL FOR THE> > > ANIMALS. WE ARE SECONDARY.> 
> > > If we could sit, as like on a Board of Directors> > > meeting, we could 
> discuss what would be best for> > the> > > animals and maybe compromise 
> somehow and attempt> > to> > > see each other's points. > > > I have tried to 
> keep myself in check, but it has> > > been> > > difficult when I am seeing 
> everything I have so> > far> > > learned here, being turned upside down by 
> this> > > rescue/shelter or that? I have so far dealt with a> > > shelter 
> that sent me a FeLV+ cat and butted heads> > > with> > > a shelter in 
> Wisconsin with the everyone must be> > > declawed thing going on... Right now 
> the shelter> > of> > > discussion is where Sherry gives her heart and> > 
> soul.> > > I> > > try so hard to see all sides, but there are times> > I> > > 
> just cannot and if you were to ask me, if after I> > > had> > > just won $300 
> million in the lottery, who I would> > > want to organize and run my, big 
> fancy shelter. IT> > > WOULD HAVE TO BE SUSAN. > > > That is all folks! > > > 
> Glenda> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> 
> >
>  > > Moody fri

Re: new list ~

[laurieskatz]

Please can we all work together? The kitties come first, imho. We need the 
benefit of everyone's wisdom, if you are willing.
Laurie
  - Original Message - 
  From: Sally Davis 
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 7:03 AM
  Subject: Re: new list


  Where is this list???

  Really I am so happy to be a member of this list. It is so emotional when you 
have a sick kitty or worse yet lose your love one. I at least know I am doing 
the best I can with Junior because I joined this list. I am one of "those" 
people who if the vet told me I had to put him down from the get go I probably 
would have done it. Let me explain, I was already in such an emotional state 
because I missed that Pumpkin was sick and lost him. He was never tested but I 
assure you from his symptoms the outcome would have been that he was positive. 

  Now Lionel came to live with me the same day as Pumpkin about 8 months before 
all this transpired. His testing showed FIV and FELV. I do think he probably 
contracted the FELV after he came to live here. I am sure based on his 
condition when he joined my household that he was already immunocompromised. 
But we were able to heal his wound and get rid of his eye infection without 
antibiotics. See at that time I could not get into see my vet because he was 
short staffed.  

  Uh where am I going. Not sure. I did wind up PTS Lionel because after the DX 
i was not sure where I was to keep 3 sick kitties and 8 negative kitties. I 
should day 2 FELV cats, one FELV/FIV cat and 7 negative cats. I have a small 
place. Like I said emotional issues. One does not always make the right 
decision. This group has helped guide me since I joined. 

  I miss the ones who left, but the new folks also bring new perspectives. 

  Thanks

  Sally

   
  On 9/26/07, catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I think those of you who have reconvened on another list are needed here to 
educate those who don't know as much as you do.
tonya

MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  EXACTLY, KEL, WHICH IS WHY SO MANY OF US WHO REALLY KNOW ABOUT FELV AND 
FIV HAVE LEFT THIS LIST AND RECONVENED ELSEWHERE--WHERE VALUES AND GOOD 
INFORMATION AND LOVING SUPPORT ARE THE VALUES. 


  On 9/25/07, Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: 
I absolutely think it is important we all decide who to support,
according to our values:)

On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, I know several people /groups that are "well regarded" in the 
rescue 
> world, and they have LOTS of dirty laundry,to say the least, @ best.
>
> And the only thing that keeps me from getting involved  in their mess 
is the
> fact that cats would confiscated & die. 
>
> I am working on about 3 separate  incidences right now, as I speak.
>
> I don't support "hack" rescue work nor "hack" vets.
>
>
>
> Susan J. DuBose  >^..^< 
> www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
> www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
> www.shadowcats.net 
>  "As Cleopatra lay in state, 
>   Faithful Bast at her side did wait,
>   Purring welcomes of soft applause, 
>   Ever guarding with sharpened 
claws." 
> Trajan Tennent
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kelley Saveika" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:42 AM 
> Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough...
>
>
> The person who is running the shelter is a veterinarian who is very
> well regarded in the rescue world.  I guess that a veterinarian 
> *could* be uninformed, but I find it hard to believe that someone who
> spent a great deal of her own time and money working to place homeless
> animals *would* be uninformed.
>
>
>
> On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I never said that you were evil. 
> >
> > But I think who ever is running this shelter is severely 
> > uninformed..@ best.
> >
> > Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
> > www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
> > www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
> > www.shadowcats.net
> >   "As Cleopatra lay in
> > state,
> >Faithful Bast at her 
> > side did wait,
> >Purring welcomes of soft 
> > applause,
> >Ever guarding with
> > sharpened claws." 
> >  

Fwd: Re: offlist

[glenda Goodman]

--- glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: offlist
> To: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Well, Tonya,
>  I guess I have been put in my place? ( I have been
> judged by the best.) I humbly apologize to all here
> and elsewhere, whom I have upset with my opinions,
> and
> infuriated with my stupidity. Having been so
> enlightened by your revelations here,  think it
> best,
> I exit this list. I certainly, being of "grade 1"
> like
> Susan, could not possible contribute anything to
> this
> list anyway.  Between you and I Tonya, that is the
> best compliment I have had for a long time,
> classified
> in Susan's league...whew!
>  Eventually, this list will be of one opinion and
> all
> will be able to get along ,because more than likely,
> there will only be one or two left to share
> information, give support, and so on. 
> Peace, love and joy to all, 
> Glenda in Nebraska 
> --- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Susan is in grade 1 with you.  You are both new to
> > the list and posting your ideas as gospel when
> > others of us have been dealing with felv for
> YEARS. 
> > It is very disruptive to the list.  And I hate to
> > say this because I see how what happened with your
> > trapped cat being killed happened.  But a lot of
> > people left the list because of you taking that
> cat
> > to animal control where it was put down.  People
> who
> > have been doing this for YEARS know you do NOT
> take
> > cats to animal shelters unless you WANT them put
> > down.  I defended you as a newbie to people who
> have
> > left the list, but many of them are still upset
> > about what happened.  They are upset that you
> didn't
> > know better.  When you sound off so harshly to
> > Sherry and others acting as an 'expert' it doesn't
> > help.
> >   tonya
> >   t
> > 
> > glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >   So many of the people here put their heart and
> > soul
> > and every spare minute possible into helping and
> > learning about cats/animals. 
> > There are certain basic rules of common sense that
> > even I have learned in the last few months when it
> > comes to dealing with these two diseases: FeLV and
> > FIV. 
> > There are people here that have taught me a lot
> and
> > who I depend on to answer questions that I might
> > have
> > or that might come up. There are people here with
> > wonderful hearts that are just here learning the
> > basics. I sincerely care for them all. We should
> > NEVER
> > attack each other. WE ARE ALL ONE.
> > If I were to tell you what grade I am in, as in, 
> > elementary school, as compared to Susan, for
> > example,
> > I'd say I'm a mere first grader and I'd imagine
> > Susan
> > might be in high school... light years ahead of
> me,
> > but here, we shall call it high school compared to
> > first grade... high school for knowledge in the
> > diseases we are dealing with and high school for
> > experience dealing with animal rescues and
> shelters 
> > and the different ways of how they do what they
> do.
> > I
> > completely respect Susan's take on things and I
> > trust
> > her experience, admire her spirit...she says it
> like
> > it is. I flower things up , but it is all the
> > same...no matter how it is said. 
> > It is important to remember, IT IS ALL FOR THE
> > ANIMALS. WE ARE SECONDARY.
> > If we could sit, as like on a Board of Directors
> > meeting, we could discuss what would be best for
> the
> > animals and maybe compromise somehow and attempt
> to
> > see each other's points. 
> > I have tried to keep myself in check, but it has
> > been
> > difficult when I am seeing everything I have so
> far
> > learned here, being turned upside down by this
> > rescue/shelter or that? I have so far dealt with a
> > shelter that sent me a FeLV+ cat and butted heads
> > with
> > a shelter in Wisconsin with the everyone must be
> > declawed thing going on... Right now the shelter
> of
> > discussion is where Sherry gives her heart and
> soul.
> > I
> > try so hard to see all sides, but there are times
> I
> > just cannot and if you were to ask me, if after I
> > had
> > just won $300 million in the lottery, who I would
> > want to organize and run my, big fancy shelter. IT
> > WOULD HAVE TO BE SUSAN. 
> > That is all folks! 
> > Glenda
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

> > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! -
> > their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at
> Yahoo!
> > Games.
> > http://sims.yahoo.com/ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>

> Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch
> previews, get listings, and more!
> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658 
> 



   

Boardwalk for $500? 

Re: list matters

[Belinda]

Nastiness and bullying are not needed to voice an opinion.

So I don't think its fair to single out Glenda and Susan.  Opinionated 
they may be, but they have every right to voice that opinion, just 
like the people who defend toe amputation.


--

Belinda
happiness is being owned by cats ...

Be-Mi-Kitties
http://bemikitties.com

Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens
http://adopt.bemikitties.com

FeLV Candlelight Service
http://bemikitties.com/cls

HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design]
http://HostDesign4U.com



BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]
http://bmk.bemikitties.com

Fwd: Re: Here is the link

[glenda Goodman]

--- glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:38:46 -0700 (PDT)
> From: glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Here is the link 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> 
> Tonya,
>  I'm going to answer you directly on this, since you
> addressed me personally. Ok ,this is the deal: I'm
> new
> here, I have picked up the basics and I have learned
> them well. I am not a gambler. Maybe that is the
> core
> difference between those of us not willing to risk
> mixing our FeLV+ guys with our FIV+ guys. I was
> incredibly touched by Sherry's love and enthusiasim
> for her most adored little kitty Mystique. My heart
> just goes out to Sherry so much. I cry almost always
> when I read about these kitties dying and I just
> want
> to give all you guys a big hug when one of you is
> hurting. 
> When I was told Mystique was only FIV+ I felt so
> happy
> and hopeful. When I was told she was mixing freely
> with FeLV+ kitties everyday, swapping saliva, etc. I
> panicked. Remember, I AM NOT A GAMBLER. 
> I told Sherry my feelings, as gently as possible. I
> have so far in the short time I have been on this
> list, been told over and over again, that the FeLV
> vaccine is only 75% -90% effective...It used to be
> only 75%-85%, but there is talk, now, that there has
> been a slight improvement. My personal vets also
> tell
> me these #'s , so at least I feel I am as informed
> as
> anyone here. 
> As for FIV+ kitties, I have researched thir disease
> too. I worked hard a couple months back to convince
> a
> couple people here, in my town, not to put their
> FIV+
> kittens to sleep over this disease. I researched and
> studied for several days to learn all I could to
> back
> my argument. I learned #1 : that their immune system
> is compromised. I learned#2: that this disease is
> much
> easier to deal with than FeLV. I learned often
> kittens
> can throw this disease, if say, contracted through
> the
> mother. This disease is a piece of cake, compared to
> Felv. I also learned it is possible for a non-
> gambler
> like myself, to mix an FIV+ kitty with my disease
> free
> guys as long as the FIV+ guy does not tend to fight
> and bite...I also learned FIV+ guys can have a
> longer
> natural life than Felv+guys...
> Everyone, who has been here a while, has to know
> these
> same things ,but some here are willing to GAMBLE and
> some are NOT. 
> I do not feel I can afford to risk any cat's life
> that
> is in my care by mixing a FeLV+ with my healthy
> group
> and if I happened to have an FIV+ kitty I would be
> even more paranoid to mix with a FelV+ kitty. 
> If there is anyone here, that can tell me some
> SCIENTIFIC REASON, I am wrong in my opinion, PLEASE
> come back to me . I came here to learn. I appreciate
> the stories of how this person or that ,might have
> had
> a disease free cat live 20+ years among FeLV+
> kitties
> and never contract the disease. This is where I get
> my
> hope. This makes me feel so happy, gives me
> strength...These stories are almost as helpful to my
> spirit as the actual scientific information I get
> here
> is  helpful to my mind. I also, love just the
> emotional support here. I think these three things
> is
> what keeps most of us here? 
> A sibling of mine, is a veterinarin. While
> researching
> which university to go to, came up with the opinion
> the three best schools in the country for veterinary
> medicine were as follows,  University of Colorado,
> in
> Fort Collins, The University of California in Napa,
> and lastly,the the University right down there in
> Austin, Texas where Susan is. All very renowed in
> the
> world of veterinary medicine...I just realized that
> last night after reeling from something I read
> hateful
> here...
> Nobody here is without a clue and nobody here is
> stupid . I never heard anything of the sort said,
> until yesterday. UGH!
> All I can say is GOD BLESS everyone of you loving,
> dear people and let's all try to get along, learn
> from
> each other and appreciate our differences. The
> reason
> we are here, is for our cats first. We just all want
> to do what is right for them...Too bad people have
> to
> be so jacked up...oh well, ENOUGH ! Have a good day!
> 
> --- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Glenda,
> >
> >   In my approximately 10 years on this list I have
> > never heard of a cat with fiv 'catching' felv from
> a
> > mixed situation.  Now cats do test initially
> > sometimes for both.  But I have had fiv cats mixed
> > with felv with no problem.
> >
> >   It's not a perfect world, and Sherry and Crash's
> > Landing do so much good that I think you should
> calm
> > down on the heavy judgements.
> >
> >   Those who have been on this list for a long
> time,
> > and many who have left, have already had this
> > discussion with Sherry.  People agree and
> disagree. 
> > But I don't think anyone feels that Dr. Jen is
> doing
> > a wonderful thing trying to save as many of these
> > c

Re: Here is the link

[glenda Goodman]

Tonya,
 I'm going to answer you directly on this, since you
addressed me personally. Ok ,this is the deal: I'm new
here, I have picked up the basics and I have learned
them well. I am not a gambler. Maybe that is the core
difference between those of us not willing to risk
mixing our FeLV+ guys with our FIV+ guys. I was
incredibly touched by Sherry's love and enthusiasim
for her most adored little kitty Mystique. My heart
just goes out to Sherry so much. I cry almost always
when I read about these kitties dying and I just want
to give all you guys a big hug when one of you is
hurting. 
When I was told Mystique was only FIV+ I felt so happy
and hopeful. When I was told she was mixing freely
with FeLV+ kitties everyday, swapping saliva, etc. I
panicked. Remember, I AM NOT A GAMBLER. 
I told Sherry my feelings, as gently as possible. I
have so far in the short time I have been on this
list, been told over and over again, that the FeLV
vaccine is only 75% -90% effective...It used to be
only 75%-85%, but there is talk, now, that there has
been a slight improvement. My personal vets also tell
me these #'s , so at least I feel I am as informed as
anyone here. 
As for FIV+ kitties, I have researched thir disease
too. I worked hard a couple months back to convince a
couple people here, in my town, not to put their FIV+
kittens to sleep over this disease. I researched and
studied for several days to learn all I could to back
my argument. I learned #1 : that their immune system
is compromised. I learned#2: that this disease is much
easier to deal with than FeLV. I learned often kittens
can throw this disease, if say, contracted through the
mother. This disease is a piece of cake, compared to
Felv. I also learned it is possible for a non- gambler
like myself, to mix an FIV+ kitty with my disease free
guys as long as the FIV+ guy does not tend to fight
and bite...I also learned FIV+ guys can have a longer
natural life than Felv+guys...
Everyone, who has been here a while, has to know these
same things ,but some here are willing to GAMBLE and
some are NOT. 
I do not feel I can afford to risk any cat's life that
is in my care by mixing a FeLV+ with my healthy group
and if I happened to have an FIV+ kitty I would be
even more paranoid to mix with a FelV+ kitty. 
If there is anyone here, that can tell me some
SCIENTIFIC REASON, I am wrong in my opinion, PLEASE
come back to me . I came here to learn. I appreciate
the stories of how this person or that ,might have had
a disease free cat live 20+ years among FeLV+ kitties
and never contract the disease. This is where I get my
hope. This makes me feel so happy, gives me
strength...These stories are almost as helpful to my
spirit as the actual scientific information I get here
is  helpful to my mind. I also, love just the
emotional support here. I think these three things is
what keeps most of us here? 
A sibling of mine, is a veterinarin. While researching
which university to go to, came up with the opinion
the three best schools in the country for veterinary
medicine were as follows,  University of Colorado, in
Fort Collins, The University of California in Napa,
and lastly,the the University right down there in
Austin, Texas where Susan is. All very renowed in the
world of veterinary medicine...I just realized that
last night after reeling from something I read hateful
here...
Nobody here is without a clue and nobody here is
stupid . I never heard anything of the sort said,
until yesterday. UGH!
All I can say is GOD BLESS everyone of you loving,
dear people and let's all try to get along, learn from
each other and appreciate our differences. The reason
we are here, is for our cats first. We just all want
to do what is right for them...Too bad people have to
be so jacked up...oh well, ENOUGH ! Have a good day!

--- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Glenda,
>
>   In my approximately 10 years on this list I have
> never heard of a cat with fiv 'catching' felv from a
> mixed situation.  Now cats do test initially
> sometimes for both.  But I have had fiv cats mixed
> with felv with no problem.
>
>   It's not a perfect world, and Sherry and Crash's
> Landing do so much good that I think you should calm
> down on the heavy judgements.
>
>   Those who have been on this list for a long time,
> and many who have left, have already had this
> discussion with Sherry.  People agree and disagree. 
> But I don't think anyone feels that Dr. Jen is doing
> a wonderful thing trying to save as many of these
> cats as she can.
>
>   And Sherry, who also deals with each loss, doesn't
> need such negative feedback.
>   tonya
> 
> glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Sherry, 
> She is absolutely beautiful. I have to tell you,
> when
> I realized the thinking behind how your shelter,
> where
> you volunteer, with the declawing policy and reading
> about the section for the special needs kitties I
> thought I would ask if the FIV+ kitties were mixed
> with the FeLV+ kit

RE: OT: Kitten Question

[Caroline Kaufmann]

Thanks everybody for the insight.  I was able to determine this a.m. that 
indeed, all three are having very stinky, loose, "cow pie" stools- but not 
exactly super runny diarrhea.  It's not the really wet diarrhea that is almost 
all watery/fluid...Does this description help?  And they have it at the regular 
times (usually after eating), like they did when having regular stools.  Eagle 
Pack makes a "Holistic Soultions" food additive that is probiotics 
(acidophilius, etc.) for diarrhea and loose stools.  I started them all on this 
last night hoping it will help regulate the gut bacteria, if that is the 
problem.
They probably do need to be dewormed again and I can get that done this week.
I haven't taken them to a vet yet since I've had them and I think I have to go 
through the adoption agency, so I am trying to find out how to work getting 
fecals analyzed
-Caroline 


Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:19:08 -0700From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: OT: Kitten 
QuestionTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
I agree.  And not to gross everyone out there's a difference between constant, 
runny diarrhea (that could cause dehydration and warrant a vet visit) and loose 
stools when they normally would go anyway.  Does that make sense?  If they are 
going all the time and it's watery, check for hydration.  If it just happens 
that when they do go their stool is not firm, I would give it some time.  Try 
the probiotics and pumpkin.
tMelissa Lind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:








Caroline,
 
In my previous post, I mentioned how it took Ashley two weeks to get better 
after the antibiotics had made it through. We had an appointment at the vet 
scheduled for 2 weeks after finishing the medicine (to take stool samples), but 
it turned out that she didn’t need to go in since she was better. If it were me 
with the high vet bills that I usually have, I’d wait another week since they 
just finished their antibiotics. But, I’m not a vet or an expert. As long as 
they are eating and drinking, I think that they’d be okay. But, please don’t 
chastise me anyone if this is bad advice—just set me straight!
 
Melissa
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline 
KaufmannSent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:15 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: OT: 
Kitten Question
 
I am not sure about their worming schedule at this point- I took them in from 
another volunteer/rescuer b/c she was overloaded and they weren't getting 
proper care, so she has their records.  All were given Advantage before they 
came to me.  I'm pretty sure they got a deworming tho, b/c I know they give 
dewormer to kittens even smaller than these and I doubt the other volunteer 
would have had them in her house with her other cats w/o first deworming.  
Plus, I look for worms all the time and have never seen any.  Do I need to take 
them to a vet?Thanks,Caroline > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:05:35 -0500> From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> Subject: Re: OT: Kitten 
Question> > It could be coccidia or giardia. Both are very common in kittens.> 
Coccidia is treated with albon, giardia with flagyl.> > It could be worms, but 
I'm thinking you wormed them already.> > On 9/25/07, Caroline Kaufmann <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> wrote:> > I am down to three foster kittens now as one was 
integrated to the on-site> > adoption facility (the pet supply store) on 
Saturday. He was bigger and> > totally healthy and getting to be too much for 
me because he was the> > instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He 
was a B/W little> > Kittler, so it figures!> > Of the three I have now, they 
seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I> > don't know what the cause is? 
I'm not doing anything different with them.> > They all get fed Wellness Wet 
Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry> > kitten. Each gets about a half of 
the small can of Wellness in the a.m.,> > and the same in the evening. When I 
leave for work, after they have eaten> > the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- 
kind of free choice because they stay> > in crates when I am not home, so I 
like to leave them with some food. They> > are all drinking water fine, except 
for when they tip their waters over, but> > I don't think they go too long 
before I am able to get home and refill them> > and it doesn't happen every day 
(I just ordered "coop cups" from Revival, so> > these should solve that 
problem).> > On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder 
and> > Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I 
do> > the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs 
each.> > I just placed an order for "Just Born with Colostrum" and will be 
switching> > them to that when I get it.> > I think, but am not for sure, that 
they are June babies and I don't know if> > they are from the same litter- 2 
might be, but I don't know for sure. The> > smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I 
should not that this is the only one that> > hasn't

RE: list matters

[Melissa Lind]

Well said. I (like Kelley) do not have an FeLV+ kitty anymore, but hung around 
because of the wise advice I’ve received. I agree that the arguments have 
progressively worsened to pettiness. We should choose our words with tact and 
with conviction. We all have a right to our opinions, but we need to realize 
that there is a difference between debating a subject and just being mean. 
Debate is good and healthy, and where I stand on this issue will not budge, but 
that doesn’t mean that I can’t acknowledge and try to learn from the 
opposition. It doesn’t mean my mind will change, but I will learn what others 
are thinking, feeling, so that in the future I can know best how to approach 
such issues in a way that will win people over to my way of thinking. I think 
that’s the importance of our arguing. Does this make sense? 

 

Diane, your decision was a tough one. I certainly don’t want to attack you or 
anyone else, but I can’t help but ask if you ever considered the soft paws, the 
little plastic covers? Maybe they weren’t around at the time? I couldn’t help 
but bring up this alternative since we’re on the subject.

 

Although I am saddened by the fighting going on, I also think it’s normal and 
cyclical. This is what happens in a family. We all have something in common 
here, yet we are all uniquely different, just like in a family. There’s going 
to be tension, misunderstanding, and things said just to be mean, to get a 
reaction, to inflict hurt back where hurt was inflicted. I abhor confrontation, 
but I think that it’s also healthy and cathartic to get all this out of our 
systems. We can’t be happy (or fake happy) all the time when there are so many 
personalities mingling here. 

 

A little fighting is healthy, but can we move on already? I miss hearing from 
those who are too shy, too disgusted, or too exhausted to respond to these 
arguments. It feels as though our list has been reduced to 5 or 6 people. I 
miss the rest of the voices.

 

Melissa

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:33 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: list matters

 

Sometimes saying what needs to be said isn't nice, but that doesn't make it any 
less important to say.  You all judge some on this list for doing the exact 
same thing you are.  If everyone would be less quick to jump on the flogging 
bandwagon, perhaps more constructive conversation would be possible. We have 
lost a very well informed and educated voice on these forums now, and thats a 
terrible loss.  I admire and respect people with a passionate view on a subject 
even if I don't agree with their opinion. Sometimes the right thing to say is 
not the easy thing to say.  She had every right to say what she did as everyone 
else did to sling childish insults back. One line "snips" are the trademark of 
a teenager, not adult discourse on an important and passionate subject.  Yes, 
everyone is here to provide information and support.  Yes, everyone has 
differing opinions on what that means; however, I find anyone who won't speak 
their truths as theybelieve them to be morally bankrupt and not worth my time. 
We ALL have a voice and be damned if anyone should be told not to use it.  If 
you feel like defending claw mutilation, be my guest, but how dare anyone try 
to silence the opposing opinion. Yes, some words spoken may have been harsh in 
this debate, but those harsh words flowed freely from BOTH sides of this 
argument, not just one.  Susan made a mistake in sending the email to the group 
and not an individual.  I believe we've all done that at one time or another.  
And as for what she said in it, what's said in a private email between two 
people is none of anyone's business, including the people on this list.  If any 
of you care, go back and read through the progression of the emails. They did 
start out much more civil, and just degraded as the conversation continued, but 
I can assure you one thing..you'll find just as many (if not more) people of 
the opinion that claw mutilation and intentional exposure to non-curable 
viruses is not a good situation, regardless  of how well the intentions are.  
Like I said, I live 30 minutes from where Angel Wings used to be. I know how 
good intentions go.  

 

Let me also address briefly the issue of personal declawing/mixing.  I just 
read an email from Diane R. about her decision to declaw.  Look, as I have 
stated freely, I think declawing is horrible, but I don't think Susan or Glenda 
or anyone else on this list was personally attacking *individuals* that are put 
in tough places with tough decisions to make.  If you're forced to declaw, or 
if you're forced to mix (I mix my two positives with my negative because they 
were together for a year before I found out) then that's a personal decision.  
Susan's and Glenda's, and yes, i'll say my, issue with that was this was a 
SHELTER, a non-

Re: list matters

[ofalegend]

Sometimes saying what needs to be said isn't nice, but that doesn't make it any 
less important to say.  You all judge some on this list for doing the exact 
same thing you are.  If everyone would be less quick to jump on the flogging 
bandwagon, perhaps more constructive conversation would be possible. We have 
lost a very well informed and educated voice on these forums now, and thats a 
terrible loss.  I admire and respect people with a passionate view on a subject 
even if I don't agree with their opinion. Sometimes the right thing to say is 
not the easy thing to say.  She had every right to say what she did as everyone 
else did to sling childish insults back. One line "snips" are the trademark of 
a teenager, not adult discourse on an important and passionate subject.  Yes, 
everyone is here to provide information and support.  Yes, everyone has 
differing opinions on what that means; however, I find anyone who won't speak 
their truths as theybelieve them to be morally bankrupt and not worth my time. 
We ALL have a voice and be damned if anyone should be told not to use it.  If 
you feel like defending claw mutilation, be my guest, but how dare anyone try 
to silence the opposing opinion. Yes, some words spoken may have been harsh in 
this debate, but those harsh words flowed freely from BOTH sides of this 
argument, not just one.  Susan made a mistake in sending the email to the group 
and not an individual.  I believe we've all done that at one time or another.  
And as for what she said in it, what's said in a private email between two 
people is none of anyone's business, including the people on this list.  If any 
of you care, go back and read through the progression of the emails. They did 
start out much more civil, and just degraded as the conversation continued, but 
I can assure you one thing..you'll find just as many (if not more) people of 
the opinion that claw mutilation and intentional exposure to non-curable 
viruses is not a good situation, regardless  of how well the intentions are.  
Like I said, I live 30 minutes from where Angel Wings used to be. I know how 
good intentions go.  


 


Let me also address briefly the issue of personal declawing/mixing.  I just 
read an email from Diane R. about her decision to declaw.  Look, as I have 
stated freely, I think declawing is horrible, but I don't think Susan or Glenda 
or anyone else on this list was personally attacking *individuals* that are put 
in tough places with tough decisions to make.  If you're forced to declaw, or 
if you're forced to mix (I mix my two positives with my negative because they 
were together for a year before I found out) then that's a personal decision.  
Susan's and Glenda's, and yes, i'll say my, issue with that was this was a 
SHELTER, a non-profit organization dedicated to rescuing and helping otherwise 
helpless animals, making these choices across the board.  There's a big 
difference there and in an individual owner having to make tough decisions.  It 
sounds like (and I'm just stating fact here, not passing judgement on the open 
forum) that the shelter in question declaws across the board (with the exeption 
of FeLV/FIV+) every time a cat comes in the shelter.   Same for mixing.  They 
mix every positive cat that comes through, regardless of which diagnosis they 
have.  That was the concern.  Not individual choices that have to be made.  
Diane R. was in a tough spot, and had to make a tough decision.  I don't know 
that I would have made a different one if I were in her place.


-Original Message-

From: Kat 

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

Sent: Wed, Sep 26 10:12 AM

Subject: Re: list matters





  Yes, this is their list too - but there are ways of saying things to  better 
get your point across for consideration versus inciting a riot  by throwing 
flames!  And while I don't have a specific quote, I believe  that's exactly 
what Rev.Martin Luther King,Jr. was trying to teach us  about tolerance and how 
to make changes effectively. I might have joined in the discussion with my 
experiences, but not under  the current judgemental/jump all 
over/boy-that's-stupid/intolerant replies  that have been going on.Kat (Mew 
Jersey) On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 
2007 09:51:15 -0400  > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  > Reply-To: 
felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org  > Subject: Re: 
list matters  >   > And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, 
that "our"  > includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin 
Luther  > King, Jr. once said, “We will have to repent in this generation not 
 > merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for  > the 
appalling silence of the good people. I don't think anyone here  > has the 
right to try and silence anyone else on this list. We all  > have opinions, 
and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether  > you like them or 
agree 

Re: list matters

[Kelley Saveika]

I don't think that anyone is trying to silence anyone because they
don't agree with them.

This used to be the most tolerant, friendly, supportive place on the
Internet, for my money.   I used to really value it just because
everyone was entitled to their opinion, and you didn't see a lot of
fingerpointing, accusations, inflammatory phrasing (such as "toe
amputation"), etc.  I never let my cats outside, but there are/have
been list members who do/did, and no one jumped up and down and
hollered about how they shouldn't do that.  Similarly mixing FELV+
with FELV- cats.  Everyone was allowed to make their own decisions
without being called irresponsible, crazy, stupid, or any other such
judgemental word.  Many of us liked it that way, and a few of us have
stuck around, me because I have a hell of a thick skin (you really
have to, to do rescue), and some others because there has been a lot
of innacurate information dispensed and they really hate to see it.

Heck, I don't even HAVE any FELV+ cats (I had a kitten come up pos at
one time, which is why I came here, and it was so nice, friendly and
supportive, I stayed).  It was also one of the best places to look for
advice/information on general cat care, etc.  It isn't anymore, and
that makes many of us sad, and lots of the oldtimers have left.
There's enough grief in caring for sick cats, without creating a bunch
of bickering and infighting.

On 9/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that "our"
> includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
> once said, "We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the
> hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence
> of the good people.  I don't think anyone here has the right to try and
> silence anyone else on this list.  We all have opinions, and we're all
> entitled to share those opinions whether you like them or agree with them or
> not.   I'm relatively new to the group, I'll admit, but you lose your
> fundamental credibility when you start trying to silence certain people
> because you don't agree with them.  Look, I think many of us, some of whom
> are too shy to speak out, are horrified at the thought of a shelter
> declawing all their cats and mixing positives.  So I don't think its fair to
> single out Glenda and Susan.  Opinionated they may be, but they have every
> right to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend toe amputation.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Sent: Wed, Sep 26 1:57 AM
> Subject: list matters
>
>
> I think it's pretty out in the open now.  Susan and Glenda tend to judge
> others on the list.  This is OUR list.  We can ignore and correct
> misinformation when it comes from anyone.  This has always been THE most
> supportive and informative list I have ever been on.  Let's not lose the
> list due to a few people.
> tonya
>
> Sherry DeHaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> WHATEVER!!! I am sorry that this has come to what it is.do you think
> everything you do is perfect!!??
>
> Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry, THAT rant was intended for one person on this list.
>
> However, let me just tell you this, if a REPUTABLE, ETHICAL  vet in the area
> finds out what this woman is doing, they will most likely have AC on her.
>
> When you start running out of room to separate your diseases, you stop
> intake.
>
> period.
>
> You do not begin to "mix" them.
>
> That is basic shelter 101.
>
> And no, it never feels good to know that you cannot help them all.
>
> However, she could take some of that money that she is using to declaw cats
> and build another room, hence, separating her diseases.
>
>
>
> Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
> www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
> www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
> www.shadowcats.net
>   "As Cleopatra lay in
> state,
>Faithful Bast at her
> side did wait,
>Purring welcomes of soft
> applause,
>Ever guarding with
> sharpened claws."
>  Trajan Tennent
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Susan Dubose
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:36 PM
> Subject: arrrggghhh.! Part II.!
>
>
> This "shelter"mixes felv+ cats w/ fiv+ cats,due to lack of space to
> separate..!  Read below.
>
> What kind of hellhole is this?
>
> It's called "crash landing"
>
> PLease do not forward..
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> 
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>


-- 
Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time.

http://www.rescuties.org

Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty lif

RE: OT:declawing your cat is illegal...

[Rosenfeldt, Diane]

Just my own two cents here.  Of our 5 cats, 2 are declawed.  One, Missy
(whom I've recently discussed re: her problem in actually hitting the
litterbox), had been my mother's cat, and the declawing was a condition
imposed by her apartment complex.  I agree that declawing just for the
sake of furniture/woodwork protection is abhorrent (and have some funky
mouldings and a mutilated couch to prove it), but will defend to the
death my mother's right to have had a furkid to love.  Missy has never
demonstrated any behavioral problems that could possibly be linked to
declawing.  
 
The other cat, Tribble, my housemate Gail and I CHOSE to have declawed,
after much, much discussion and angst, since yes, we do consider it an
inhumane practice.  But here's the thing:  Missy and two other cats used
to live with me in my apartment.  Tribble lived with Gail and her other
cat, Kitty.  In her household, Tribble was the "second cat" and always
deferred to Kitty, several years his senior.  At the same time, he has
ALWAYS been an agressive little bugger, prone to unexpected violence,
i.e. you're petting, you're petting, YOU'RE BLEEDING!  No notice or
reason.  After his neuter, we kept waiting for the hormones to subside,
but it never seemed like they did.  He was just a rotten little guy.
But since Gail and I both strongly believe that pets are a commitment,
she kept him, and we do both love him, in an ever-vigilant way.  When we
decided to pool our resources to leave the crumbling tower o'doom that
our apartment building had become and buy a house, we wondered how all
our cats would mesh, particularly Tribble and my alpha male, Luc.  To
our surprise, their meeting was like "Dude." "Dude," and they could
often be seen (and heard) thundering through the house in play pursuit
of one another.  But increasingly, Tribble began to bully everykitty
weaker than he was, which was pretty much every "new kid" who came
through, and eventually even his bud Luc started remembering previous
engagements when Tribble would approach.  We started seeing scratches
and bites on everybody but Kitty, who was confined to Gail's part of the
house upstairs for her own safety (she was CRF, frail, and in her last
couple of years, blind, and we didn't want the stronger ones tromping on
her even in play).  For the protection of the others, we very
reluctantly decided to have Tribble declawed.  We had it done by the
only vet in town who uses lasers, and Tribble seemed to have very
minimal discomfort afterwards.  It didn't really change his disposition,
but it gave him one less weapon to use.  He still bites, but at least he
has to get closer to them to do so, and all of them know to keep their
distance  -- he must have caught Missy unawares with the recent damage
to her backside.  He sometimes tries to "sharpen" on cardboard boxes and
such, but we've seen no impediment to him doing what he does.  
 
So, yes, Tonya and Kelley, nothing is ever black and white.  For us,
declawing Tribble was an extreme and agonizing decision, but if we had
it to do over again, for the sake of the others, we still would.  The
alternatives were both unthinkable -- getting rid of Tribble knowing
nobody in their right mind would adopt him, or subjecting the other cats
in the household to constant danger.  Our solution wasn't perfect, but
short of having his teeth filed down it was the very best we could do.
We stand by our reputation as caring and responsible catmoms.
 
Diane R.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonya
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:34 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT:declawing your cat is illegal...


Thank you Kelley.  All issues are not black and white.
t

Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 9/23/07, glenda Goodman wrote:
> Oh well, we are just talking about cats here, so
> whatever we need to do to them, so they can please us
> humans, is all that really matters, right?
> Glenda
>
No, but there are a lot of issues associated with declawing that
don't
typically get discussed.

I think this type of law is, like spay/neuter laws,
well-intentioned,
but ill-advised.
Currently 25% of cat owners declaw their cats in the U.S. We
also
have millions of cats dying in shelters. If you make declawing
illegal, the majority of those people are likely going to stop
owning
cats. So that's fully 1/4 less homes that would be available.

Now, whether or not this is bad depends upon whether or not you
believe that cats are better off dead or declawed. Nathan
Winograd
says that given the choice, a cat would beg you to declaw him
rather
than kill him. There are people who think that cats are better
off
dead than declawed, and though I disagree I think we are all
entitled
to our own opinions. I would not suppor

Re: list matters

[Kat]

Yes, this is their list too - but there are ways of saying things to
better get your point across for consideration versus inciting a riot
by throwing flames!  And while I don't have a specific quote, I believe
that's exactly what Rev.Martin Luther King,Jr. was trying to teach us
about tolerance and how to make changes effectively. 

I might have joined in the discussion with my experiences, but not under
the current judgemental/jump all over/boy-that's-stupid/intolerant replies
that have been going on.

Kat (Mew Jersey) 

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:51:15 -0400
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: list matters
> 
> And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that "our"
> includes Glenda and Susan as well.??I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther
> King, Jr. once said, ???We will have to repent in this generation not
> merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for
> the appalling silence of the good people.??I don't think anyone here
> has the right to try and silence anyone else on this list.??We all
> have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions whether
> you like them or agree with them or not.I'm relatively new to the
> group, I'll admit, but you lose your fundamental credibility when you
> start trying to silence certain people because you don't agree with
> them.??Look, I think many of us, some of whom are too shy to speak
> out, are horrified at the thought of a shelter declawing all their
> cats and mixing positives.??So I don't think its fair to single out
> Glenda and Susan.??Opinionated they may be, but they have every right
> to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend toe amputation.
> 

Re: arrrggghhh.....! Part II.!

[Belinda]

Everyone here does the best they can with what they have available 
to them.  When I joined this list 10, 11 years ago and told others I 
mixed my positive and negatives, I know some thought I was irresponsible 
and sentencing my others to a probable death because they would become 
infected by Bailey.  No one directly said it but it was implied on 
occasion, you know what I don't care what anyone else thought, all 
except one of my guys back then were rescues and most likely, in fact 
very likely wouldn't have been alive if I hadn't took them in.  God or 
whatever you do or don't believe in brought Bailey to me knowing what my 
circumstances were so I left it to the higher power I believed in to 
take care of all my guys and keep everyone healthy if that was what was 
to be.  In 11 years of mixing nobody ever got it from Bailey and Bailey 
himself was healthy until the last 6 months of his 11 years, so I was 
very lucky.


I before I knew what declawing involved considered it for my guys, once 
I was told what it entailed I choose not to do it, but I do have a 
declawed cat, Shelbee was declawed when I got her.  She is 13 and doing 
fine, she was very standoffish for the first 4 or 5 years, she is now 
very lovey, the first time I met her and reached out to pet her she 
tried to bite me, she still doesn't really like to be picked up but I 
can pick her up and she comes to me seeking attention now.


I used to think cats should be able to go outside and run loose, well 
after losing two cats mysteriously and not knowing what happened to them 
I decided they were all going to be indoor from then on.  I personally 
now believe no animal that is someones pet should be allowed to run 
loose not only for their safety but why should my neighbors have to put 
up with stinky cat pee all over their property?  I don't have the right 
to mess up their yards and ruin their enjoyment of their property.  
That's part of the problem we have in today's society, nobody respects 
anyone else's space, property, there's no consideration of each other.


I don't have any kids and I didn't want to have any kids, when I go out 
to eat with hubby and someones kid is running all over the restaurant 
screaming or in the booth behind me jumping up and down, it is very 
inconsiderate when the parents do nothing to control their child, and 
believe me many times they don't because they think it's OK for their 
child to do anything they want.  Why do people with kids think it's OK 
for their child to act like that and expect everyone to just have to put 
up with it, when did it become OK to be so inconsiderate??


In this world we have gotten very disrespectful and inconsiderate of 
each other and it is only getting worse, I'm old enough to know that 
kids weren't shooting each other in school 35 years ago, people didn't 
get out of their cars and shoot each other when someone cut them off, in 
fact it was rare to get cut off because people were considerate and 
respectful of each other.


I don't personally know either of you Susan or Glenda but I do work with 
many different rescues and I know all about the back stabbing and in 
fighting that *can and does go on* and about the hoarders that think 
it's better to get them out of the shelters at any cost and throw them 
into unbearable conditions and the only ones that suffer are the animals 
they all profess to be trying to save.  And there are those who like 
nothing better than to cause problems under the guise of trying to help 
animals, attacking a rescue you know nothing about because they don't do 
things the way you think they should be done is petty.  Making 
suggestions anytime is OK but remember that doesn't mean someone has to 
follow them.  Nobody is perfect or knows everything, nobody I've met on 
earth anyway ...


All of us on this list will do just about anything, within our means, to 
keep our furkids healthy and happy, that is different for all of us, for 
me personally it means getting very aggressive and invasive if I have to 
if I think it will save my furkids, for others it means making them 
comfortable while they live out whatever time they have left.  It is 
very hard for me to deal with it when someone is doing that because I 
would choose a different path but I'm learning it isn't my choice to 
make and as much as it may upset me I have to let it go.  It's a really 
hard lesson for me but I'm getting there, everyone has different beliefs 
and circumstances and as long as the choices we make are out of love 
nobody has the right to say our choices are wrong.  If you want to 
disagree with me please feel free, but you don't have to get nasty about 
it on a public forum, you have your opinion and beliefs, they have 
theirs and unless you are running things there that's as far as it 
should go.  I'm sure you wouldn't let anyone tell you how to run your 
organization, someone may make suggestions but it is your groups 
decision for your group to listen to the

RE: list matters

[MacKenzie, Kerry N.]

It's not what's said that's usually the problem; it's the way in which
it's said. 
What's the point of saying something in a mean, nasty way when it can be
said civilly?
There's too much meanness in the world as it is without us adding to it.
I agree with the person who said something along the lines of, you don't
win people over by yelling at them. Never did, never will. 
Kerry M. 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:51 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: list matters


And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that "our"
includes Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King,
Jr. once said, "We will have to repent in this generation not merely for
the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling
silence of the good people.  I don't think anyone here has the right to
try and silence anyone else on this list.  We all have opinions, and
we're all entitled to share those opinions whether you like them or
agree with them or not.   I'm relatively new to the group, I'll admit,
but you lose your fundamental credibility when you start trying to
silence certain people because you don't agree with them.  Look, I think
many of us, some of whom are too shy to speak out, are horrified at the
thought of a shelter declawing all their cats and mixing positives.  So
I don't think its fair to single out Glenda and Susan.  Opinionated they
may be, but they have every right to voice that opinion, just like the
people who defend toe amputation.

-Original Message-
From: catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wed, Sep 26 1:57 AM
Subject: list matters


I think it's pretty out in the open now.  Susan and Glenda tend to judge
others on the list.  This is OUR list.  We can ignore and correct
misinformation when it comes from anyone.  This has always been THE most
supportive and informative list I have ever been on.  Let's not lose the
list due to a few people.
tonya

Sherry DeHaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

WHATEVER!!! I am sorry that this has come to what it is.do you
think everything you do is perfect!!??

Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Sorry, THAT rant was intended for one person on this
list.
 
However, let me just tell you this, if a REPUTABLE,
ETHICAL  vet in the area finds out what this woman is doing, they will
most likely have AC on her.
 
When you start running out of room to separate your
diseases, you stop intake.
 
period.
 
You do not begin to "mix" them.
 
That is basic shelter 101.
 
And no, it never feels good to know that you cannot help
them all.
 
However, she could take some of that money that she is
using to declaw cats and build another room, hence, separating her
diseases.
 
 
 
Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
 
www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
 
www.shadowcats.net  
  "As Cleopatra lay in
state,
   Faithful Bast at her
side did wait,
   Purring welcomes of
soft applause,
   Ever guarding with
sharpened claws."
 Trajan
Tennent
 
 
 
 

- Original Message - 
From: Susan Dubose
  
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:36 PM
Subject: arrrggghhh.! Part II.!


This "shelter"mixes felv+ cats w/ fiv+ cats,due
to lack of space to separate..!  Read below.
 
What kind of hellhole is this?
 
It's called "crash landing"
 
PLease do not forward..
 
 
 
 
 


  _  

Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places

on Yahoo! Travel. 


  _  

Email and AIM finally

Re: list matters

[ofalegend]

And let us also remember, that when you say its our list, that "our" includes 
Glenda and Susan as well. I believe, as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, 
“We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and 
actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people.  I 
don't think anyone here has the right to try and silence anyone else on this 
list.  We all have opinions, and we're all entitled to share those opinions 
whether you like them or agree with them or not.   I'm relatively new to the 
group, I'll admit, but you lose your fundamental credibility when you start 
trying to silence certain people because you don't agree with them.  Look, I 
think many of us, some of whom are too shy to speak out, are horrified at the 
thought of a shelter declawing all their cats and mixing positives.  So I don't 
think its fair to single out Glenda and Susan.  Opinionated they may be, but 
they have every right to voice that opinion, just like the people who defend 
toe amputation.





-Original Message-

From: catatonya 

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

Sent: Wed, Sep 26 1:57 AM

Subject: list matters







I think it's pretty out in the open now.  Susan and Glenda tend to judge others 
on the list.  This is OUR list.  We can ignore and correct misinformation when 
it comes from anyone.  This has always been THE most supportive and informative 
list I have ever been on.  Let's not lose the list due to a few people.


tonya



Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

WHATEVER!!! I am sorry that this has come to what it is.do you think everything 
you do is perfect!!??



Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 


Sorry, THAT rant was intended for one person on this list.


 


However, let me just tell you this, if a REPUTABLE, ETHICAL  vet in the area 
finds out what this woman is doing, they will most likely have AC on her.


 


When you start running out of room to separate your diseases, you stop intake.


 


period.


 


You do not begin to "mix" them.


 


That is basic shelter 101.


 


And no, it never feels good to know that you cannot help them all.


 


However, she could take some of that money that she is using to declaw cats and 
build another room, hence, separating her diseases.


 


 


 


Susan J. DuBose  >^..^www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com

www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org

www.shadowcats.net

  "As Cleopatra lay in state,

   Faithful Bast at her side did wait,

   Purring welcomes of soft applause,

   Ever guarding with sharpened claws."

 Trajan Tennent


 


 


 


 



- Original Message - 


From: Susan Dubose 


To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 


Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:36 PM


Subject: arrrggghhh.! Part II.!









This "shelter"mixes felv+ cats w/ fiv+ cats,due to lack of space to 
separate..!  Read below.


 


What kind of hellhole is this?


 


It's called "crash landing"


 


PLease do not forward..


 


 


 



 


 






Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. 



Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com

Re: Here is the link

[Beth Noren]

Thanks Tonya, I'm tryin', though it doesn't come easy!  I just joined a
parrot behavior list that teaches people to modify their parrots behavior
through positive reinforcement and modeling
the correct behavior.  Funny thing is, list members are required to live by
those same principals in their communications with each other.  Joined to
find help in dealing with my husband's new bird, but I think it may just
change the way I relate to people too!  I'll keep practicing here, though it
still feels like my point gets lost in all the diplomacy...

:o)
Beth


On 9/26/07, catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thank you Beth for being much more diplomatic than me.  :)
> tonya
>
>

Re: new list

[Sally Davis]

Where is this list???

Really I am so happy to be a member of this list. It is so emotional when
you have a sick kitty or worse yet lose your love one. I at least know I am
doing the best I can with Junior because I joined this list. I am one of
"those" people who if the vet told me I had to put him down from the get go
I probably would have done it. Let me explain, I was already in such an
emotional state because I missed that Pumpkin was sick and lost him. He was
never tested but I assure you from his symptoms the outcome would have been
that he was positive.

Now Lionel came to live with me the same day as Pumpkin about 8 months
before all this transpired. His testing showed FIV and FELV. I do think he
probably contracted the FELV after he came to live here. I am sure based on
his condition when he joined my household that he was already
immunocompromised. But we were able to heal his wound and get rid of his eye
infection without antibiotics. See at that time I could not get into see my
vet because he was short staffed.

Uh where am I going. Not sure. I did wind up PTS Lionel because after the DX
i was not sure where I was to keep 3 sick kitties and 8 negative kitties. I
should day 2 FELV cats, one FELV/FIV cat and 7 negative cats. I have a small
place. Like I said emotional issues. One does not always make the right
decision. This group has helped guide me since I joined.

I miss the ones who left, but the new folks also bring new perspectives.

Thanks

Sally


On 9/26/07, catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think those of you who have reconvened on another list are needed here
> to educate those who don't know as much as you do.
> tonya
>
> *MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote:
>
> EXACTLY, KEL, WHICH IS WHY SO MANY OF US WHO REALLY KNOW ABOUT FELV AND
> FIV HAVE LEFT THIS LIST AND RECONVENED ELSEWHERE--WHERE VALUES AND GOOD
> INFORMATION AND LOVING SUPPORT ARE THE VALUES.
>
> On 9/25/07, Kelley Saveika <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I absolutely think it is important we all decide who to support,
> > according to our values:)
> >
> > On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Well, I know several people /groups that are "well regarded" in the
> > rescue
> > > world, and they have LOTS of dirty laundry,to say the least, @ best.
> > >
> > > And the only thing that keeps me from getting involved  in their mess
> > is the
> > > fact that cats would confiscated & die.
> > >
> > > I am working on about 3 separate  incidences right now, as I speak.
> > >
> > > I don't support "hack" rescue work nor "hack" vets.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
> > > www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com 
> > > www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org 
> > > www.shadowcats.net
> > >  "As Cleopatra lay in state,
> > >   Faithful Bast at her side did wait,
> > >   Purring welcomes of soft applause,
> > >   Ever guarding with sharpened claws."
> > > Trajan Tennent
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Kelley Saveika" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:42 AM
> > > Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough...
> > >
> > >
> > > The person who is running the shelter is a veterinarian who is very
> > > well regarded in the rescue world.  I guess that a veterinarian
> > > *could* be uninformed, but I find it hard to believe that someone who
> > > spent a great deal of her own time and money working to place homeless
> > > animals *would* be uninformed.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I never said that you were evil.
> > > >
> > > > But I think who ever is running this shelter is severely
> > > > uninformed..@ best.
> > > >
> > > > Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<
> > > > www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com 
> > > > www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org 
> > > > www.shadowcats.net
> > > >   "As Cleopatra lay in
> > > > state,
> > > >Faithful Bast at her
> > > > side did wait,
> > > >Purring welcomes of soft
> > > > applause,
> > > >Ever guarding with
> > > > sharpened claws."
> > > >  Trajan Tennent
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: Sherry DeHaan
> > > > To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:54 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough...
> > > >
> > > > Please dont try to save mty feelings.Just don't read anymore of my
> > posts
> > > > and
> > > > I will do the same!! We are not evil people
> > > >

Re: Here is the link

[Tad Burnett]

Just one comment...
The risk of death for an FIV cat at a kill shelter is mentioned...
You might want to read the fine print of many many NO KILL
shelters that also PTS FIV, FeLV and even the entire litter because
just one kitten dies of FIP...
Life it self is a risk... What about the risk you give to your kitties
by jumping in your car and drive to the store to get supplies...
Tad

catatonya wrote:


Thank you Beth for being much more diplomatic than me.  :)
tonya

Beth Noren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

But the FIV cats have not been given a "death sentence", they have
been vaccinated for a much reduced risk of a catching FeLV.  They
are weighing that risk against the risk of death on the streets or
in a kill shelter.  If anyone believes that that risk is not
justified they can say so in a much nicer way than calling the
place a "hell hole" and attacking poor Sherry.  
From my experience, I do believe that some rescues are too set on

the idea that declaws are neccesary to attract adopters.  Our
local rescue declaws every kitten it can before offering it for
adoption.  When I told one of their volunteers that I was looking
for a clawed companion for my 
clawed one-year old, she looked horrified and actually said "What

about the furniture?"  A politely worded letter to the director
telling them that they lost out on an adoption can have more
impact than jumping into impassioned rhetoric and telling them
they're in "the dark ages".
 
Beth
 
  
  

 
On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose <[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> wrote:

Allowing mixed "pet" cats to stay together that have already
been exposed is one thing altogether.
 
Deliberately exposing already immune compromised fiv+ cats to

felv+ is giving them a death sentence.

While she (Not Sherry, the owner)  collects donations
for this  and tells everyone,
"We do the best that we can".
 
Question, as far as declawing, are the adopters even asked or

is it "just a given"?

Sounds like the dark ages.
 
And besides, a cat that is fiv+ is stillvery adoptable, w/an

education programset in place.

A cat that is felv+ is much harder.
 
A cat that is fiv+ and exposed to felv is just about impossible.
 
 
 
 
Susan J. DuBose  >^..^<

www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com 
www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org 
www.shadowcats.net 
  "As Cleopatra lay in state,
   Faithful Bast at her side
did wait,
   Purring welcomes of soft
applause,
   Ever guarding with
sharpened claws."
 Trajan Tennent
 
 
 
 


- Original Message -
From: Beth Noren 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: Here is the link

 
Glenda, many of us here mix our vaccinated negatives with

our positives.  It is a calculated risk that takes into
account quality of life, as is your decision to allow your
cats outside.  In my situation, with my neighborhood and
my street-senseless cats, an outdoor kitty is a risk that
I won't take.  Your situation may be very different.  I
guess I am just trying to suggest that we ALL care deeply
for our cats, and that we be gentler with each other when
voicing our different opinions.  It does the cats no good
if all of us crazy cat ladies start attacking each other. 
Sherry has worked so hard, and takes each loss so

personally, and for that I thank her.
 
Best wishes,
Beth, Blue, Moxie, Dash, Scooter. and Will Feral